Okay, [cough] [clears throat] we're ready to go. Here we go. Well, good even good evening everybody and thanks for joining us uh this evening. So, I hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving weekend. And here it is, December 2nd, 2025. It is 700 p.m. This is a meeting of the Adina City Council. Uh, and um, as Director Benerrod indicated, we are handling these meetings all during uh, the pandemic and and post-pandemic in a hybrid sort of way. So, there may be folks that are watching online. They're going to call in. they can uh call in with concerns under concerns of residents or they can call in during the two public hearing matters uh and testify that way. Uh we'll handle folks that are in the audience first uh that are with us live this evening uh when we get to the public hearings or if there are folks here that want to make a comment relative to uh their concerns under the community comments section of the agenda, we'll do that as well. So, having provided that information, I'm going to call the meeting to order and ask our clerk to call the role. sitting. >> Thank you, mayor. Council member Agnu >> here. >> Council member Jackson >> here. >> Council member Pierce >> here. >> Council member Risser >> here. >> And Mayor Hubland >> here. Uh, next folks is the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thanks everybody. And then we have a form of meeting agenda in front of us this evening. And there's um uh from visiting with manager Neil at noon today. There's one recommendation that um I'm going to make in terms of modifying the agenda and that is with is with respect to item 8.2 which was going to be a a discussion with our uh economic development director uh about potentially requesting the purchase of professional services to look further at this uh France Avenue underpass. Um it's premature to be having this conversation amongst the council. And the reason it's premature is because uh the property hasn't been officially closed on yet by the uh party that's been approved for a project there. So we thought that they're supposed to close sometime this month. Uh let's wait until after we make sure that they get the property closed before we go through the effort of having this conversation about whether we do or do not want to uh hire a consultant to um uh to look further at this idea of this underpass because if it doesn't come to fruition uh it could affect timing and that could mean that this conversation would go for not. So I'm going to suggest that uh the matter uh under 8.2 to be uh tabled and continued to our January 20, 2026 meeting. Is there a motion of that effect? >> So moved. >> Second. >> We got a motion by member Jackson, second by member Pierce to uh table item 8.2 and continue the matter to the January 2026 January 20, 2026 city council meeting. Is there any further discussion? >> All those in favor of the motion is stated say I. >> I. I. Opposed. Carried. Uh and then let's go back to the agenda itself in its uh modified form. Is there a motion to approve the uh agenda as amended? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Member Jackson moves. Member Pierce seconds the adoption of the uh agenda in it amended form. Any further discussion? Those in favor of adoption adoption of the agenda and its amended form say I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. >> We have an agenda that we can work from for this evening. Uh and now we will turn to that agenda. And uh the next uh item on the agenda is um community comment. And so it comes up relatively quickly. There are folks in our community that come to city council meetings on a regular basis uh and some just here for the first time with a concern that they might have. And I'm going to invite those folks in the audience to come up. You'll have three minutes to um uh make your presentation. And that's the same thing we'll do during the the uh public hearing matters as well. you have 3 minutes. You'll get a yellow warning light when you've got about 30 seconds to go and then you should be thinking about wrapping up your comments and try to hit it right around the 3m minute mark that we treat everybody the same here. Give them equal time uh for the meeting and for their presentation. So uh is there anyone that wishes to address the council on a matter of concern to them this evening? Lori Gros, I was here at the last council meeting and asked the council whether or not they were going to change the boundaries of the tiff district at Grand View so that the new development that is proposed to be going in uh will not be in the tiff district because the de developer is not asking for any financial assistance from uh I didn't get a response. Manager Neil suggested not to respond. I'm here to say I don't want a response from manager Neil. I want the response from the council and I want you to tell me whether or not you're going to change the boundaries so that the property taxes go to the taxpayers or if they're going to stay in the tiff district. And if they're going to stay in the tiff district, what are you going to use those funds for? Thank you. >> Thank you. >> David Frankle. Uh, I'd like to thank Council Member Risser for comments at the last city council meeting. Uh, personally, uh, it's unfortunate that she's decided not to run for reelection. She's often the only one with any sense of fiscal responsibility and asking tough questions of city staff. I'm hoping next year we can elect two similar council members to fill her role. What's going on currently in the city council? Two other things. I'd like to know what's I've asked this before. I put in a data request. Seems to be a real secret about what's going over on at Braar Arena. Sound rink went down. The Dina Hockey Association published an email. It said that one of the compressors blew up. And as far as I know, there's a temporary rental [clears throat] behind the south rink operating the refrigeration system. Like to know what's going on. What's the cost? What's the plan to get that rink going permanently? I realize there's a plan to replace it, but what's the plan between now and then? Also, there's been no discussion and there's nothing on the city website either about the agreement with the United States Department of Justice on the pedestrian bridge over in Grand View. What is the schedule to to make that an official remediation effort and plan? You know, why isn't there anything on any of the United City websites about these two issues? What's the secrecy? Where's the transparency? Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Frankle. Anyone else in the audience wish to address the council on a matter of concern to them? >> Good evening. >> Hello. Um, I gave my card to I'm an Hustad. Uh, long time over 40-year resident of Adina. Um, not necessarily an activist until maybe now. And my concern because it's not on the agenda is the is the tunnel. And is it fair to have comments about the tunnel even though it's we've >> that's off the agenda for this evening. So go ahead. >> I just think we as taxpayers can't afford to take on that kind of a cost. I I think we've lost our way financially and I think we need to have much more prudent judgment on this type of an expense. We don't have a clue where the money is going to come from and we all know where it will end end up coming from and that is each and every one of us as a taxpayer. I personally wouldn't use a tunnel. I'd be fearful for my safety. Even if it was a free tunnel, I wouldn't use it. So, I just think we need to really rethink that whole strategy on how to cross France Avenue. And I think a tunnel is probably the worst decision option that we have. Um, I also want to make a mention to um, and I I think in terms of fiscal responsibility for the time that I've lived here, I've always trusted that a Dina city government would make good decisions on my behalf. And and I think right now more than ever, we need to be really careful with how we're spending our money. And when I look back at the September council meeting as it addresses the um the intern that that we hire that we've done for now 14 years um and and rightfully so. I'm sure it's a great opportunity for kids to do that. However, an EMS firefighter starting pay is about $70,000 equivalent to what you're paying an intern. And I think the argument that you had um mayor is that we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings by denying them that option. These interns I'm saying I think that's I think we need to really rethink our argument against hurting anybody's feelings when we have more immediate needs which is firefighters and EMS personnel. That's my thinking. >> Yeah. Thank you. Anyone else? >> Yeah, come on. Come on up and we'll find out what it is you want to visit about. Maybe it's more appropriate for one of the public hearings. >> I'm Patty Flecky. I have been a resident here for a little over two years and we got our tax statement thing and so that's a concern about the raise in taxes and the loss of some of our home equity home home uh home exclusive home Home homestead exclusion. >> Homestead exclusion. Okay. >> Yeah, that's gone down. We're concerned about that. But personally, I'm more interested in developing a long-term plan for the Edina Arts Center. That would be wonderful if it included all of the arts. My husband is a chist. He plays with the Minnotonka Symphony and they're struggling to find a place to play all orchestras the men uh the other big orchestra >> Why is that a symphony was kicked out of the church? The church is no longer allowing any organizations to play there and they have been playing there for years. So where do groups go to perform? Where is art hung and created? This is a budget you should plan for the long term for the development and for the bene better betterment of Edina because the arts are struggling in the schools. Some schools don't have programs and an art center might help that. But right now, places to find to play are getting more and more difficult. Weisetta is now going to Hopkins. The Minnotonka Symphony is going to the Arboratum. What's wrong with this? We need this kind of facility and think long term. Don't be bashful. Think aggressively for the benefit of our citizens that live here in Edina. >> All right. Thanks, Patty. And uh your comments on the art center. We appreciate that. And uh concerns about a place for orchestras to perform. If you want to stick around, we're going to address the budget when we get to item 7.2 on the agenda, and then you can come back up and express your concerns about >> about your taxes, but we're not we're not going to handle that right now. >> The agenda, >> I don't even have that. >> Yeah, there should be some >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, for now, you can go ahead and sit down and we'll we'll get to that matter in due course. Anyone else? Let's turn now to Director Benerott and see Oh, here we go. for you. My name is Craig Cora. I've been a resident of Vidina for almost 65 years. One of the worst ideas I've ever seen so far is the idea of a tunnel underneath France. I'm glad you brought that up and I totally agree with it. U I don't know how long it's going to shut down France Avenue, the busiest highway in the state of Minnesota, but it's certainly not a good idea. Uh, obviously we all know how important France Avenue is from Cross Town to 494, the busiest road in our state. So to shut it down even for a week is a bad idea. To shut it down for four months or 6 months is a really, really bad idea. And uh certainly a bridge over it far less of an expense for us. Our taxes are going up too much, sir. The levies are killing me. I'm almost 80 years old now and seeing this kind of spending at some point, guys, it's got to stop or at least slow down. I mean, we got more hockey rinks than anybody in the in the immediate area, probably in all of Henipin County. Uh, that's great. I love hockey. We got a golf course that I know we've spent 20 or $30 million on. Um, >> it wasn't that much, Mr. Cora. And it's >> wasn't it? >> No. And we're netting about a million dollars a year out there on the operation of it. So >> what was the expense, sir? >> I think it was under 10 >> for the remodeling. >> Yep. >> Under 10. >> Yep. >> I guess I'm surprised. Good job. Good job then. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> It's going to take us a while to get the get the 10 million back at a million dollars a year. >> When the million I'm telling you about is the net after we make the debt payment. So it'll it'll still take a little while, but we're that's that's it. That's it. was wrong there. Mayor, >> you've been at it longer than I have >> and and [laughter] I'm generalizing a little bit, but it's in that range. It's been it's been it's been really a good thing, >> but I wish you'd reconsider the tunnel idea. I just I just don't see the expense and the disruption in that area. It used to be a water problem. I don't know if it still is or not, but that whole area flooded many years ago. I know the city did some changing of of uh water lines and stuff for that, but uh at any rate, that's what I wanted to say. >> Well, thanks for coming in. Okay. >> Appreciate your your thoughts. >> Anyone else? Okay, let me turn to Director Benner. See if have anybody online that wishes to share concern with the council. We don't have anybody online. um our practice is now to go to the city manager and uh one of these issues was raised a couple weeks ago by Miss Gros about uh potentially changing boundaries of the tiff district for the Grand View project that we're working on over there. Uh and I'm going to turn to manager Neil now because that may be uh amongst the issues that he's going to address as he responds to the issues that were raised a couple of weeks ago. Usually you'll have your answers online uh on our city website by Friday of the week of a of a uh council meeting. Uh and then we'll follow up at the follow at the subsequent council meeting with comments from our city manager uh on those concerns that were raised at the prior meeting. So we're going to turn to manager Neil now and ask him to address some of those concerns that were raised a couple weeks ago. >> Thank you, your honor. Um in addition to responding to them, we we have them online so that you can come back and see them if you wish. Um why was the first question was why was the discussion around um uh funding a proposal for for 701 France Avenue site tabled at the October 30th meeting of the HR, the housing and redevelopment authority. Uh prior to that meeting, um there was a disagreement really about a recommendation that staff were about to make on that proposal. uh the developer was concerned about that recommendation, asked uh and asked the city if we would postpone the discussion uh of uh of the of the issue uh at that HR meeting. Our custom is to uh honor those requests when we get them from a developer. Um and so we did and that but that's what happened. We will take that up at some point in the future again, I'm sure. Uh second question was how could the Adina City Council be recalled? Um in most situations it's not possible to remove statutory uh elected officials. Uh there's no recall uh authority in a statutory city like Adina. There can be uh uh recall procedures in home rule charter cities and there and we're surrounded by home rule charter cities and that's why some cities might have the uh ability to recall public officials and some and some don't. Uh a vacancy can occur if an elected official is is convicted of an infamous crime and an infamous crime is a felony. A crime which is uh sentences in imprisonment for one year uh can be imposed. Uh next question was uh what will the city do with the future incremental property taxes? Uh this is a question that Miss Gro asked at 5146 Eden Avenue. Uh we do need to have that discussion. We just haven't had it yet and we're looking forward to having that discussion with the with the council. Uh the next question was if charitable gaming gambling is allowed in Adina, will the council uh allow the Adina Hockey Association to be part of the proceeds? Uh the city uh has to adopt the city council has to adopt an ordinance authorizing charitable game gambling first. If the city does that, the question about whether an organization uh can participate or not is governed by state law and the city ordinance. So, we're in the process of of figuring out how we want to make that that presentation to you. You had the presentation uh from from the advocates at the last meeting. They you gave us some direction to prepare a repeal and replace kind of ordinance. And so, we're working on that. We initially thought we would have that ready to go for you to take a look at at the December 16th meeting. It's probably now going to be uh January 20th. Uh the next question was, what's going on at the South Rink? uh at Braar Arena. Uh the South Rink Chiller uh experienced an unex an unexpected critical failure on November 1st. The arena staff engaged kind of a series of consultants and and folks really to help us out to to put that uh to get that arena back up and going. Uh they were able to do that. They were able to locate a a condenser chiller unit that was portable and to bring that up uh in beside the building and put it into our system. So, we'd like to to uh get that permanently fixed and the project that we're working on there uh will do that in the long term. Uh next question was, did the city employees get two paid days off uh for Veterans Day on November 18? Excuse me. This is from the last meeting. No. Uh city employees uh did not receive two paid two paid days off for Veterans Day. Veterans Day occurred on the 11th. We we did a soft close of our facilities on November 10th uh to allow uh employees to be absent from work, but if they were absent from work that day, uh they had to account for that absence that would any other time you're absent from work on a workday. You take paid leave or you take uh some other form of of leave to cover that time. And those were our questions. I think for folks in the audience that may not be uh thinking about Braarice Arena uh could maybe give a quick update on where we are with respect to the uh sales tax uh revenue that we're we've been authorized by our residents to spend out there on improving the arena too. So, from a from a sales tax revenue standpoint, uh we anticipated uh through a study from the University of Minnesota Extension that we would uh take in somewhere close to $380,000 a month. It's actually been uh closer to $600,000 a month in in in revenue. Those revenues are dedicated to two um largecale uh park and wreck projects, facility projects. one at Fred Richards, former golf course, Fred Richards Park, and the other is um is the arena and the arena expanding the arena and bringing in we're looking at uh ways to increase uh ice capacity there. And we're doing that by and we're going to propose to to the council to do that by really bringing the the outside refrigerated ink in rink inside um through walling putting walls around it and and really developing that part into an arena that gets used a lot more. That project is in uh the design phase. It's got a it's we're we're bringing it now to to groups um that work at the arena that have time at the arena rent buy space at the arena from us. We'll also uh bring it to council members so you can see uh kind of the early stage design and give us some give us some direction on that too. >> Council members, that prompt anything from anybody? >> Yes. Council member Jackson. >> So approximately when will we uh get to see the progress on the rink? >> Uh the the design pro um as soon as we can get a meeting with you. We shared it with the mayor the other day. Um we're ready to share it with council members as too. So, Jennifer Garski or or someone in parks and wreck, I think, is reaching out to you to get it on your calendars. >> Great. Thank you. >> I think the the contractor they selected is one that's used to working in an environment where there's ongoing activity because we're not going to shut the whole thing down. you know, we've had um a lot of concerns about that south rink being down and we were fortunate to get that up and operating, but the the plan is quite uh ambitious and so we'll end up with I think four sheets of ice. Um and it will be ready probably in 2027. >> Okay. Um All right. I think that's it for that portion of the agenda. Let me look at one thing here was whether there was anything else we could address in time real time here. All the comments are duly noted and received. Um so we've got the consent agenda in front of us. We'll move on to the consent agenda portion of the agenda. Uh member Risser wanted to remove items 6.10 10 and 6.20. And is there anyone on the council wishes to remove an item other than those two particular items? Okay. Is there a motion to approve the items on the consent agenda in a single motion with the exception of items 6.10 and 6.20. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Member Jackson moves. Member member >> member Risser moves. >> Yes. >> All right. Member Risser moves. Member Agnu seconds the adoption of the items on the consent agenda with the exception of items 6.10 and 6.20 which will take up in due course here. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the items on the consent agenda with the exception of items 6.10 and 6.2 say I. I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. All those items on the consent agenda are adopted with the exception of 6.10 and 6.20. >> I'm going to turn first now to 6.10 10 which is um a resolution 2025-114 which would set the park and wreck fees for 2026 for the various park and wreck operations. I'll turn now to member Risser to see what her concern was there. >> Thank you. And my concern has to do with um material that has, you know, factors impacting costs. And it lists ability to recruit, train, retain highly qualified people, um maintain high level of customer service, um navigate increased costs with vendors, um anticipate volume of repairs at many of our aging facilities. And um all of that really made a lot of sense. And then I got to the aquatic center where it is noted that we're estimating a slight decrease in rates and so I was wondering if staff could um explain the thinking behind that. Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you for that. Manager Neil. >> Um thank you your honor. We do have Tracy Peterson here. She's the assistant director of the parks and rec department and I think she can speak to that. >> Good evening Mayor and council. Um council member Risser. Um, one of the things directed to your question, um, in some of the feedback that we've gotten, [clears throat] um, we decided to take a long look at, um, kind of our rate structure for the aquatic center. That rate structure has been, um, in place for quite a few years. Some of the things we heard from our users were that our resident and non-resident rates are way too high um, in terms of price, in terms of our surrounding communities, St. Park, Crystal, New Hope, Bloomington, um, and Richfield. So, we wanted to address that. Um, we've also seen a decline in those season passes, which is where you saw the slight decrease, um, in fees. And so, we wanted to take a look at that. We've seen a drop significantly in the last four years. So, what we did is we looked at kind of our overall pricing structure. Um, and we wanted to offer some, as you saw in the in the rate structure, offer some more options. Um, and hopefully what that does, it provides more access and flexibility. Um, and for those families that have maybe one to three, yes, there is a little bit of a discount, but it's very small. Um, we're also adding a senior rate. We've had our five and 10 admission pass and our new we're going to add a new Auguston pass. So, what we're trying to do, um, is bring in more people to the facility and provide more options for them to do that. Um, just to kind of point to your reference, we're also adding revenue generators with um with the new um remodel. We're adding the cabanas, so we'll have some rates for those. Um, and then we're going to do some rental opportunities, so that has some added revenue. Um, and then some enhanced birthday parties. So, while the structure um I did some some quick math on um a family of four in the old model would be $331, in the new model it's 330. Um in the old model, family of five would be $412. In the new model it's 405. So, we believe we can sell more of all of our options and all of our passes to to make up for that and also add to that with some of our new options. Thank you. >> All right. Um, member, anybody else have any questions relative to 6.10? Is there a motion to adopt resolution 2025-114, which sets the park and wreck fees for 2026? >> So move. I second. Member >> Risser moves and member Agnu seconds the adoption of resolution 2025-114, which sets the park and wreck fees for 2026. Uh, any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of resolution 2025-114 say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. Resolution 2025-114 setting those park and wreck fees for 2026 is adopted. And then we'll turn to item 6.20 uh which was the proposed 2026 meeting calendar of meeting of religious religious observance dates. And member Risser, >> thank you. And this came out because of I I did receive a lot of calls about city hall being closed the day before Veterans Day as well as Veterans Day. And so when I was looking at this calendar that came out, I wanted to know if there were any other soft holidays. And if so, how they would be marked. The other thing is if you look at July, um it's indicated that we have a holiday on Friday the 3rd and Saturday the 4th. And I thought that could be confusing for people. And so I was wondering if there could be some changes to the calendar. So it didn't raise a lot of questions. Maybe there could be an asterisk on July 4th. So it's explained that this is not another paid holiday. U I don't know what the solution is, but I think um if manager Neil could talk a little bit about that, but I thought it'd be good to clear up any confusion that the calendar could raise. The other thing is I think it's important if there are soft holidays, it needs to be indicated it's a soft holiday and that city hall will be closed or other facilities will be closed. Thank you. >> Manager Neil. >> Sure. I can take those uh questions in order. So, what's what we're trying to convey what we're trying to convey with the uh calendar on July 3rd and 4th is just that the the Saturday Saturday the 4th is the official holiday. But uh for for these mand for these mandated holidays that we have and July 4th is one of them. Uh we the celebration or or the the paid timed off on that day is on the 3. If it's a Saturday holiday, it's the Friday prior to that Saturday. If it's a Sunday holiday, it's the Monday that follows it. So there's they're not two paid holidays. Uh but I we can I think an asterisk or some other kind of indication there to indicate that we can we can figure that out and do that. Um the other question was uh soft close days and in interestingly in 2026 there's only one and that's uh January 2nd. When you think of uh that that those three days in a row January 1st is a holiday, January 3rd is a Saturday. So that taking off that Friday would be a soft close day. It would be one where people can come in and work if they if they want to work. They can clean up, they can file, um they can work on projects, they can work with each other. Um or if they're going to be away from work, as I said earlier, they got to be accountable for that time and use paid leave, vacation leave or other forms of leave. So that's when that is and we can make some notation on on the document about that as well. >> Okay. >> Thank you. You care to move the matter member? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. We got a me a motion by member Russer, second by member Pierce to adopt the 2026 meeting calendar of meeting and religious observances dates uh with the corrections that are going to be or the additions that are going to be made to that calendar based on the conversation here at the dis. Any further conversation on that? All those in favor of adoption of the 2026 meeting calendar of meeting and religious observances date say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. The calendar for 2026 is adopted. And that takes us to the public hearing matters. And um we've got two this evening. And uh the first one involves an application uh by some of our residents, at least one of our residents, that desires to exceed the um parameters of our existing ordinance on the number of pets that you can have uh that you own at your property. And so um this is a request filed by somebody who wants to exceed three cats and dogs in the aggregate at their property. And uh I'll turn it to first to manager Neil. Is Mr. Hunter here? >> Oh, there he is. >> Officer Hunter is here. >> Officer Hunter, our animal control officer, Tim Hunter, is going to handle the introduction on this matter. Then we're going to have a public hearing on this. This is uh something that by our ordinances is a public hearing matter. People can give their opinion on whether the application to exceed three cats and dogs in the aggregate uh is appropriate in this circumstance. So uh Officer Hunter, welcome. Thank you, mayor, mayor, and council members. Uh, this isn't something that comes up very often. Um, manager Neil and I were talking about this just before the meeting commenced, and I think the last time was 10ish years ago. Um, but more importantly, the couple that had made the application this time around had come to us proactively. They had recently moved to the city. They read the ordinances proactively, came to us for the application. All four animals are small, two Chihuahua, two cats. They are all uh registered as uh ESAs or uh emotional service animals for various situations within the home. And they are also looking for, as I understand it, that's kind of a short-term living arrangement and they're looking for other longer term arrangements. And I'm not sure if it's within the city or within another one. Uh however, they have gone through all the steps. The president that I recall uh similar to this was a family that had applied for an application. They had both ADA service animals as well as emotional service animals in the house. Uh there was a total of eight of them for a family of I think five or six people and the council had approved it at that time. Uh we haven't had any complaints about the current family. Uh they've come to us proactively. The animals are all small. We haven't had any concerns from the property management group uh for the apartment building. And in so far as the public responses that we've gotten from the mailings, it's been mixed. Most of the uh negativeleaning uh comments have been more along the line of we have the ordinance, therefore we should stick to the ordinance rather than knowing or understanding the the details within that circumstance. So considering the specifics of the circumstance, my staff recommendation would be an approval. >> All right. Any questions for Officer Hunter at this point in time? >> Yes, Council Member Jackson. >> Um, so is there a difference between an apartment building or a aggregate, you know, multifamily unit and a single family home? So, if they were to buy a house in Edina, would would that transfer the use the license to have these four animals or would it be okay in a single family home? >> In terms of the ordinance, they would have if regardless of where they lived in the city, single family or multif family, they would need to apply for the variance. >> Okay. And if they move, do they get the variance, does it travel with them? Is it does it go to the family or is it for the home? >> We've not handled that before. However, under the ordinance, my understanding in terms of how that would have to operate is that we'd have to send out a new mailing to the new neighbors and then have the public hearing from there. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Other questions for officer Hunter at this point in time. >> Stand by. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Um, this is a public hearing matter and are the applicants here? >> Yes. folks, you want to come forward and and and tell us, you know, briefly what uh your situation is and and appreciate you appreciate you giving us notification and being proactive. >> Of course. Thank you. Um my name's Emry Day. I am a licensed veterary technician. Um and the reason we're here is I'm sorry I'm a little nervous. The reason we're here is because we're asking >> Can you introduce me as well? >> Oh, this is my wife. I This is a human. Um this is my wife, Monica Schultz. Um >> I'm a doctoral psychology intern. >> Um and being who we are, we're very proactive in making sure that we're doing the correct thing for our family as well as for our pets. Um, when we first moved here, I had a different ESA who passed um, very suddenly within a few days of us just moving. Um, and so our number changed at that time. Um, and our daughter experienced a significant and profound trauma. um which unfortunately requires her to need some extra services. Um and my wife's original service animal is uh currently in hospice kind of situation. She's a 15-year-old girl who's got some GI cancer going on. So, one of the other cat is there to take her place. One of the Chihuahua is there to take my ESA who's passed place. And the other one is for our daughter. Um, and as as an OBVT, as a technician who works in the field, it's um, they're very well taken care of. I actually work at a brand new hospital that just opened in Hopkins. Um, it's they've all got their their shots. They're all very well behaved. Um, we try to make sure that, you know, well, they're Chihuahua, so they can kind of bark sometimes, but we try to make sure that they're, um, not a disturbance. And of course, if any of our neighbors had any issues, we'd be happy to speak with them, um, if there was. Um, there are family members and our daughter is very attached to every single one. Um, so we're just hoping to be able to keep our family together. And then here, due to the nature of my work as an intern, I also work very hard with all the animals, with my spouse, and with our daughter to make sure that everybody's needs are getting met, to make sure that my needs are met with my various things. Um, my spouse's needs are met, and to make sure that our daughter's needs are met as well. um if there is an issue, the only issue I can see is that one of our dogs is designed not designed um >> his job is to be an alert dog because our daughter was kidnapped. >> Um >> so he's >> he alerts when there are new people at our windows, at our door. Um he is a small dog so he doesn't make a whole bunch of noise and he's not threatening but he is there to let us know that there are people there. >> Yeah. His his role is to be loud and sound angry on purpose so that our daughter feels safe again. So >> questions for the applicants. >> Yes sir. >> Yeah. Just asking if the council members have Yes. Bear with us for a moment here. See if anybody has any questions for you. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. Thanks. Um, I don't know if this is a factor or not. Would you could you tell us the age of the animals? >> Yes, sir. So, one of our cats is 15. That's our hospice girl. Um, the other one is about two. Um, and then both of the Chihuahua are about 8 years old. Um, and my Chihuahua that passed suddenly was 17. Um, so our boys will be around for a good while hopefully as long as I do my job properly and take care of them. and our 15-year-old girl, we're looking up >> maybe another year with her, >> maybe. Yeah. Um it's hard to kind of tell with cats and cancer. Sometimes they're just like, "Never mind, I'm out." And sometimes they're like, "Never mind, I'm I'm chilling. We're going to stay for a while." So, um but she is on hospice. >> We like to call cats in the field. We call them aliens. They kind of just do their own thing. They they make their own terms. Mhm. >> So, u u [clears throat] none of us are getting out of this alive, but when the cat passes on, is it your intention that you'd like to continue to have four or would you then just keep three? >> We would just keep three. >> Okay. So, this would be it's like a temporary license in a in a in a way. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um it's just to kind of cover that interim while our hospice cat is still clinging on. >> Okay. Okay. That's helpful information. Yeah. Thanks. prompt any questions from anybody from the council? >> Yeah. Yeah. Commissioner or council member Agno. >> Thank you. Um this then is a question actually for officer Hunter. Um so knowing that this is potentially something that would be temporary. Can you tell me about how the the life of this approval would work and if it's something that would roll off at a certain point of time or or does it get auto renewed? Just what is the life cycle? If we were to grant this approval, >> the variance would be um issued specifically for the animals on the application. So if one of them passes then and it brings it below the requirement or to the requirement in this case, if they have one pass and they go from four to three, then that variance technically is still in effect, but it's no longer necessary by ordinance. And so it would no longer be in effect if they got a fourth animal because it's for the only named four animals on there today. >> Correct. So if a fourth one were to be acquired, then they would have to reapply with that fourth one included on the list. >> Thank you very much. >> And and how would you go about monitoring the life expectancy of the 15year-old cat? >> That's something that we typically don't uh monitor. They would have to notify us of that. But >> you you you'd rely on them to report to you that >> correct >> that the cat had passed. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> And for the practical purposes of the variance, it wouldn't be necessary for them to notify us. Uh they would have to notify us if they acquired an additional animal to replace it. However, >> all right, thanks for that. Other questions for officer under or for the applicants? All right. But I think you could sit down for now. We're going to open this up for public testimony and see if there are folks here that wish to testify regarding this matter. >> Thank you. >> Either in favor or in opposition and then we'll come back. >> Thank you very much >> to you. Thank you. >> Um so I'm going to open this up. It is a public hearing matter. Uh is there anyone in the audience who wishes to testify regarding this matter? And then uh is there anybody online who wishes to testify regarding this matter? I don't have anyone online, but since you just opened the hearing and there is a brief delay in the broadcast, I'd recommend you wait about a minute, giving anyone an opportunity to call in um who might desire to do so. My clock shows that it's 7:45. I'll come back to you at 7:46 or when I have a caller, whichever is first. >> Thank you. What may be your longest minute of the day has now passed and I think it's safe for you to move forward. >> All right. Very good. Thank you for that. Uh as I mentioned earlier, this is a public hearing matter and the first thing we would want to do is determine whether we want to close the public hearing matter. Uh we didn't have anybody coming forward to testify here or online other than the applicants and our officer Hunter uh with a recommendation that that we approve the permit application. Uh is there a motion to close the public hearing in this matter? >> So moved. >> I second. >> All right. Member Jackson moves. Member Agnu seconds the closure of the public hearing in this matter. Any further discussion on that issue? All those in favor of closing the public hearing say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. Uh as to the uh uh motion itself, uh the motion would be to approve the permit application to exceed three dogs and cats in the aggregate at 5241 Lincoln Drive, apartment number 110 in Dina, Minnesota. Uh is there a motion to that effect and then we can have a second and some conversation or we can have a conversation first? >> So moved. >> All right. Second. >> We got a motion then a second. A motion by member Agnu, second by member Pierce to adopt the uh to approve the permit application to exceed three dogs and cats in the aggregate at 5241 Lincoln Drive, apartment number 110 in Nina. Uh discussion. >> I can I'll start. >> Yes, thank you. >> Member, go ahead. >> Um well, thank you so much for for coming in and um kind of sharing um a little bit of the backstory and I think it really helped me understand the situation. Um, one, I appreciate being proactive and not it didn't feel like they hit it and then they were found out. Um, so I think that's an important component for me and also knowing that they're relatively small animals kind of in comparison. Um, and I think that the third part that makes me supportive is also knowing the age of the animals. So unfortunately knowing kind of the situation. sorry um that you're going through that, but knowing that it's going to be relatively a short term, I think that this is something that I I do support and I I'm kind of echoing what we have from our officer Hunter as well of um support this. >> Good. Yeah. Thanks, Member Agnu. Others other thoughts Jackson I'll go to member Pierce. >> Um I I'm in favor of it. I for everything that member Agnu said. >> Yeah, she covered it well. member. >> All right. Very good. Uh I remember we did it was been quite a while ago may have been the preceding the one that officer Hunter mentioned where we denied the request but it was a showdog situation in a in a in a multif family uh environment and it was um it was difficult but nonetheless this is a this is quite a compelling story too for me and I think member Agnu laid it out very well all the all the key factors that all of us are thinking about and uh knowing that regrettably this is an interim sort of situation. Um you I think you you've got the support of all the council on this matter. So we've got a motion and a second to approve the permit application to exceed three dogs and cats in the aggregate uh the defined animals at that location at 5241 Lincoln Drive apartment number 110 Minnesota D [clears throat] Minnesota. All those in favor of approving the permit application to exceed three dogs and cats in the aggregate at 5241 Lincoln Drive, apartment 110, say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. Thank you for coming forward. Your permits approved and um yeah, good luck with everything. Thank you. All right, we've got one other public hearing matter and uh I think that's what most of the folks were gathering here for and this was talk about something that we've been working on for quite a while. When we did the 2025 budget, we asked the the city staff to work hard on the 2026 budget and um they have been diligently working on things. Uh there's it's it's a it's a it's a bifurcated sort of process. I think I could safely use that word where, you know, we um I'm going to turn to manager Neil in a minute here, but what what throws so many of us off, I think, that aren't involved in this process on a regular basis is that uh by early September, we have to set a preliminary levy. It's not the final levy, but it's it's something that we set to give ourselves room to to work down from. We can't go above the preliminary levy, but we can go below it. And so, [clears throat] particularly this year, I think with some of the requests that our our fire chief came forward with uh in terms of uh wanting to provide the best possible service to the residents of our community, uh we set the the bar kind of high. And I think a lot of people in our town have been writing saying, "Oh, 11%. That's not a good rate." It I don't think any of us thought it was ever going to be at that level, but nonetheless, that was what the preliminary level got set. And that may be why many of you are here. and uh at least in part and express your concerns about uh about the budget and uh it's nice to have all of you here to share your thoughts. It'll be important to us. We've got uh the public hearing tonight and then we'll make a final decision a couple weeks from now. We got to do it of course before the end of the year and we've got some more work to do yet and your input will be really important here as well. I'm going to turn to manager Neil. We've got some sequences we're going to follow here. Manager Neil's going to introduce the topic. uh our our finance director Ptow is going to lead us through a presentation so everybody understands well the uh how we got to where we are and then uh we'll open it up for public testimony. >> Thank you your honor. I I think we'll we'll I'll handle the introductory piece, the preamble and then we'll get to the numbers with our finance director. But first, we would talk a little bit about what drives our budget process and and it's our mission and our vision as as a community uh to provide effective and valued services, maintain sound public infrastructure, and offer premier public facilities. And that that particular phrase is one that tries we try to use um throughout throughout the community and all of our different facilities. The vision for the city of Adine is to be a pre-minent place for living, learning, raising families, doing business. The vision is distinguished by a livable environment, effective, valued city services, a sound public infrastructure, and a balance of land uses and innovation. Our budget is the is really the any budget of of a city is the really the largest reflection of an organization's uh priorities. The budget serves as the foundation of of uh operationalizing the community's goals into actionable plans as as uh determined ultimately by the city council. Uh the the vision of DINA budget values and pillars and the comprehensive plan are all strategic plans that guide the creation of the bianial budget work plan which in turn drives other implementation level work plans including departmental work plans and and board and commission work plans. Our process our budget process uh for at least as long as I've been here has been a bianial uh budget process. So in one year we focus on our operating budgets. We also do capital some capital during those years but really we have a focus of our operating budget. In oddnumbered years we really take a lot of focus on on our oper on our CIP our our our capital improvement plan and the levy that goes with that. In this has started to uh blend a little bit over the last uh five or six years I'd say and we're working on both of those budgets uh throughout the year. This is the timeline for our budget. If you you see it starts with December 17th, uh December 17, 2024. That was the day that the council approved the proposed levy and budget for 2025. And really this year, we started earlier than we had in previous years. We started in in February really talking about what is it that we want to do as a community? How do we operationalize that and what does it cost and where does the money come from? That takes us all the way down to September 16th. That was the first uh official action that the city council took on this proposed budget. That was when you established the preliminary levy. And as you noted, Mr. Mayor, that levy is set at at a rate that you cannot exceed uh as you move forward through the budget process for the rest of the year. And you but you can make it lower. And we're proposing to do just that later tonight. Our our uh we're at December 2nd tonight. This is the public hearing. It's a mandatory public hearing. It's set for cities all over Minnesota. Uh we're all having the same kind of public hearing uh during this during this first week of December. Finally, uh our budget will are we're asking the council to and the council must adopt a final levy and budget at our final meeting of the year on December 16th. And I'll turn it over to Ptow, our finance director from here on out. P. >> Good evening, mayor and council member. Um, as city manager Neil mentioned, um, the city council and the staff develop in conjunction to the budget a two-year budget work plan which coincides with the operating budget. Um, once approved, the two-year budget work plan drives several other work plans at the implementation level. Um, our work plan our budget work plan is guided by four different budget pillars or priorities uh within this strategic uh plan. One is strong foundation, reliable services, livable city and better together. So what I have in front of you here is within the pillar or budget priority for strong foundation where the object objective is to maintain physical assets and infrastructure. There is planned for the fire station 3 design and planning park improvements to Fred Richards uh park, Braar Arena, Braar Park as well as South Truck Sanitary, our Cahill Industrial Area and then planning and design for the police department city hall renovation designs and then the replacement of the aquatic center pump room which you enacted upon earlier this year. Next is the pillar of reliable service which is to maintain service levels that best meets the community needs. Um, within this budget work plan, we have items for enhancing support for staff experiencing social disruption events, mental health service advancements to us transitioning our assessing a division to the county and then Edinburghough Park uh study as well as process automation and AI exploration for efficiency as well as a staff study within the component of livable city which is a plan for connected and sustainable development staff put together for the budget work plan affordable housing advancement and growth comprehensive plan update that is done every 10 years a zoning code update uh safe and equitable mobility action plan as well. Now, within the pillar of better together, which um the city is fostering an an inclusive and engaged community, there is plans for a quality of life survey as well as updating our community engagement online platform to a long-term art center plan. So, like city manager Neil mentioned, um just to give us a little bit of preface of history, uh 2024, city council adopted a 9.15% uh levy increase. 25 we uh realized an 8.44 uh percentage increase. And tonight, after refining the budget to stay at or below the preliminary of 11.03 seal 3 that you enacted upon in September. Um staff kept the following in mind as priorities based off of prior council discussions and conversation to keep continuing the growth of our public safety services especially in our EMS services um to also outside of public safety service keep current service level in place and to also explore alternative revenue options to funding different projects. Therefore, our city manager final proposed is coming to you tonight at a 8.96% for 2026, which includes six firefighter paramedics for 26 uh along with savings from combining public works and engineering departments. Other budget highlights for 26 and 27 is we control departmental operating costs by restricting their annual rate of growth by less than 3%. Um we also reduce operating costs by reducing staff in two general fund departments which are six full-time employees in assessing and one full-time employee in fleet maintenance as well as combining engineering and public works. Like I mentioned, we increased non-propy tax revenues as you foresaw earlier this year by uh incorporating a utility franchise fees percentage and using this to replace our debt service for property tax levy for our future street reconstruction projects. Along with this, we did some reorganizing of our capital spending uh where we prioritize our capital improvement projects and our capital equipment plans within what is the allowable or available property tax levy. We uh have continue and will continue our practice of accumulating savings in personnel relating operating costs by controlling employee vacancy placement. Um utilizing these savings in 26 and 27. We have also adjusted our annual debt service expenses over the next two-year budget period to enable the city to service these new debt service levy. As you recall, the fire station 2 debt service levy came in lower than what we had anticipated. So um that is also is staying within uh council's pro total property tax levy parameters. So if adopted later this month, um the city manager proposed le levy at the 8.96. You will be committing to six firefighters to start at the beginning of January 2026. And then you also are continuing to commit to the budget work plans that I had proposed earlier as well as a important 2050 comprehensive plan update and continuing contracting public safety partnership programs with Henipin County uh such as our joint community police partnership and the embedded social worker program. Now, I mentioned earlier that council has asked staff to take a look at what are some fundings that we can use to fund projects uh differently than rather through our property tax levy. Um listed here is uh what these uh projects are and staff has identified in total of all these alternative fundings 2.46 46 million of project fundings to be funded by public safety aid, construction fund reserves or general fund surplus as well as internal service funds. These are all good usage of these types of fundings as they are uh one-time costs or costs that don't occur um annually or every year. This here is just a depiction of what makes up the city manager proposed um levy increase of 8.96. The biggest difference between this and the one you saw earlier in September is the six paramedic firefighters. While as previously at the 11.03, 03. There was 12 uh firefighter paramedics in that propose uh that adopt a preliminary levy number with the general fund um being one of the main operation for the city as well as being the main usage of property tax as its main source of revenue. Um that makes up 75% of the total sources of revenue. And then with our public safety being one of our main uses of of fundings or expense, it they are our biggest department at 53%. So for illustration purpose, the city of Edina's consolidated budget that will also be coming to you or is coming to you for adoption for 2026 consists of a consolidated budget of $224 million. This is for the operation of not just general fund but to support governmental funds which includes your general fund operation to your debt levy to pay out bonds as well as construction projects. Um and then our special revenue funds the HR as well as as other special revenue fundings. And then there is also the enterprise funds which I have the next slide on is about 73 million of the consolidated budget. And then our internal service fund um is made up of 10 million of the consolidated budget. So as I mentioned earlier, the enterprise funds is um if you were this is also part of the consolidated budget that council will be enacting upon. These funds are different from general fund as they if we were to think about it from a operation standpoint. These are supposed to be self- sustaining or should be self- sustaining funds that um if you think about it from the business world side they are your for-profit businesses. Um the purpose of these funds again is self- sustaining on the and based off of their own operating revenue. Um but however the city has been transferring out many from liquor operation to support the other enterprises and this includes transfer out from liquor to Satennial Lakes Park, the art uh center as well as Edinburghough Park. And with this um budget proposal for 2026, general fund is also uh subsidizing for some of these inter enterprise funds um in the transfers for 26 to Centennial Lakes Park arts and Edinburgh Park as well as the arena. Now internal service funds in the is another type of proprietary fund based off of the financial statements for government entities. Um these are what I would say your um allocating central overhead funds. They include your risk management where your property liability and workers comp insurance are uh expensed at as well as your equipment operation where vehicle maintenance and equipment maintenance are um expensed and charged out from to your IT equipment and services to facilities management where maintaining and operating our beautiful facilities in the cities are all recorded and then charged out to general fund as well as all the other enterprise funds to pay back. Previously, I showed you a slide of um where we were at as far as 2025 for uh tax rate comparison. This listing of cities here is our usual s uh cities that we usually um compare ourselves to. Um as you can see, I've updated to include the 2026 prelim tax rate um of this set of cities. Um this is for of course all the cities that's over in 45,000 in population. The average uh the 2026 prelim tax rate uh for all these cities is at 38%. City of Edina is um about we in uh with the prelim levy that you adopted September our prelim average tax rate in uh increased 2.2% from 2025. This is amongst all the peers listing of cities here. Edina is still at 19.3% lower than the highest city on the uh listing here and 5% less than the average tax rate amongst this pier listing. This next comparison is amongst Henipin County cities that are 10,000 or more in population. Um and again this is using the preliminary tax uh numbers that was adopted by all these cities in September. Um, city of Adidina's 2026 prelim tax rate is 17.7% lower than the prelim average tax rate and 37.7% lower than the city with the highest tax rate. As you can see, which the gap has, if you take the math between the two of them, the gap has widened in our favor. Now you may ask where has the city of Edina been in the last five years for our tax capacity and our tax rate. Um our tax capat capacity has been increasing which has been the same for city tax rate which is beneficial to the city's certified tax levy being steady. The impact to the residential is not felt because it's been a steady increase over the year. It is felt but is not as impactful of um than it would have been if it wasn't a steady increase. So with tonight's city manager's final propose, we are projecting a 32.4% city tax rate in comparison to the 33% that I had showed you last time at preliminary. This next chart here is um I just want to show that debt service levy is a crucial component in our total tax levy of that the city of Edina certifies to the county. Um, this projection shows approvals that council has made life to date uh versus future potential projects that staff will have to bring back to council for discussion before enacting upon it. And we'll talk about that in the next year as capital improvement uh project is one of our main um focus in next year's budget. So, you may ask, um, where does all the money on my property tax statement go when I pay it on my property tax bill? Um, 27% of it, uh, goes to the city of Edina, whereas the rest of it, 38% goes to Edina public schools, 29 goes to the county, and 6% goes to your watershed, metro district or other special districts in the county. of the 27% um that is then go into the city operation to provide you service. A majority of it again like I mentioned in the previous slide is to support public safety which is your police and fire and EMS. And then um we've talked about that earlier in the year where staff gave a presentation to council as far as what are the services that city um service provide uh or use these funds for. [clears throat] So, with this being said, the 2026 estimated levy impact based off of the city manager's final proposed of the 8.96% increase is in 25 in 2025, a $500,000 value home pays about $126 per month in property tax to fund or receive all the city service provided service. In 2026, the same value home uh of $500,000 pays about $135 per month in property tax to fund all these same service that is provided, which is an increase for visualization or just for easy math purpose, a $941 per month increase. This has decreased about $212 per month from the preliminary uh approved rate of 11.03%. So with that being said, through the various conversation that staff has had with the city council, we um are in front of you here is a list of budget options. Um as you can see, um the main driver has to do uh is our firefighter paramedics. Um, and so with that being said, city manager's proposal is still coming to you tonight with six firefighter paramedics starting in 2026 with a realized levy increase of 8.96 uh uh for 2026. To round us off, um tonight is our truth and taxation public hearing. um where staff is asking council to open the public hearing um as well as uh share that there is an online public input where we've been receiving feedback um and this will be open through December 7th on our better together Edina website and finally staff have explored and included alternative revenue options with the proposed levy of 64,294,773 which enable the city to continue the growth of our public safety safety services by adding on one time six firefighter paramedics starting on 126 specifically in our EMS service to keep up with the current service level in place. Um staff recommends that council enact upon this decision of adopting a 8.96% as a final levy for 2026 at your next council meeting on December 16th. And with that is my end of the presentation. Thank you, Director Towel. Uh, questions for Director Towel at this point in time. Okay. Um, Council Member Jackson. >> Yes. So, in the comments earlier, we heard about the art center and the plans for the art center. It's my understanding that over time when we move into the new facility, that will actually cost less to operate than it does now. Is that correct? >> That is correct. Um, I believe it will be a joint operation between the city and the county. The city will be paying in a leasing to the county for the utilization of the space. The city is not um on the hook to build out the space, but um we're in a joint uh operation with the county to utilize that space. >> And over time, that will be reducing the the cost of operations. Correct. Versus our standalone art center now. >> Yes, that is correct. >> Okay. And then you you talked about this, but I just want to emphasize every department looked at ways of saving money this year, correct? They went, you know, we see the icing on the cake with the final thing, but you went every you worked with every department and and looked for savings in every way. Correct. >> Yes. Um as you can see in the timeline that was provided earlier um once department directors submitted their budget um we met with the different department directors to on top of controlling their growth um of commodities or contractual service rate to 3% restricting that to 3%. We also took a look at what are areas that we can cut back on or areas that we don't need that we can uh bring still keep on um the same service level. what are those areas and then having that conversation with city management to if there's any increases for that which is minimal then we will have that discussion otherwise yes you are correct we took a look at operations we also took a look at capital uh improvement which is another big component of what the city's levy is at um as you can see there was um we reduced our construction capital um uh levy portion of the total tax levy that we do by I believe 4 million um and since the projection uh since 2025's construction levy. >> Terrific. Thank you. >> As a segue on that, we had information in the presentation about um shifting the assessing department over to the county and but there were no numbers attached to that. It might be good for folks to know what the savings was uh there and and projected to be over time. >> Sure. Um we projected that based off of the operation, so this is salaries to benefits to the cost of having assessing in the city operation. Um our savings from moving assessing to the county will save the city half a million dollars in 2026 and a million dollar in 2027 based off of the uh budget numbers that was provided in 26 and 27. >> Thank you. Uh, other council members have questions or comments relative to the presentation by Patau. Okay. Uh, this is a public hearing matter. Thanks for joining us. Eager to hear your thoughts. Um, I just noticed on the presentation there is Mr. Cora is still here. I owe him an apology because the golf course only netted 444,000 in profit, not a million. maybe the year maybe the year before, but not not in 2025 or 2024. So, my apologies for that. Um, all right, let's this this is a public hearing matter. People can come forward and testify. Um, you uh will have 3 minutes and you'll get a yellow uh kind of warning light or amber light that tells you that you got 30 seconds to go and and have you wrap up your comments right at the red light so that we treat everybody the same way here and everybody has equal time. Um, yes, sir. Welcome. >> Uh, my name is Jim Bros. I have uh concerns and and a question. Uh until such time as the city council gets control of city spending, these runaway increases of city levy will not stop. This is the fault of every council member. We have not heard the council demand hiring freezes. We have not heard the council demand uh non-essential department cuts. We have not heard the council demand cuts in non-essential services. Shame on every council member here. By your lack of action, some seniors here in Edina are being forced out of their homes, which the city views as good because we need the permit fees from the tear downs. Your lack of action is exploiting Edina seniors on fixed income. Shame on you. Now, my questions are, what is the budgeted 2026 amount to cover the expected operational losses at both Edinburgh Park and at Centennial Lakes Park. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Goats. >> Good evening. Uh Ben and the mythic Edina towers above a beacon of light upon a hill. The mythic Edina is the suburban dream, safe neighborhoods, beautiful parks, wellplowed streets. It is the perfect place to raise a family. People envy Edina for the incredible infrastructure, safe schools, and other glamorous amenities. Uh, some of my fondest memories come from playing with friends at a renovated Weber Park, running on the beautiful Edina portion of the Sevenmile Creek Trail, and coaching soccer for ESA at Pamela Park. I believed in the mythic Edina. However, when my elderly neighbor suffered a stroke and it took EMS over 20 minutes to respond because there were not enough paramedics, I questioned our myth and I reconsidered. When our lives are on the line, when Edina's uh reputation as the best stands paramount, we fail. Our mosaic of myth shatters. EMS response times in the city fall far below our national standards and more importantly our EDINA standards. First, we fall short of the National Fire Pro uh Protection Association and the Commission of Fire Accreditation standards of 6 minutes and 39 seconds and 8 minutes and 12 seconds. For 28 to 25, we are projected to be at 12 minutes and 33 seconds according to Andrew to fire chief Andrew Slama. Choose your standard. We are either five or six minutes behind. These minutes are the moments that separate life and death. Edina, the mythical Edina, the city envied by all, falls far behind, failing its citizens in their moment of dire need. Um moreover uh or additionally in the 2025 quality of life survey 94% of respondents expected response times under 7 minutes. We have failed our own self-perception. Our glamorous paradigm of expectations is far short of reality. We need to become the city we say we are a city where citizens are safe. Perhaps I don't believe in the mythical. However, I believe in the mythic beauty of the city. I have seen Centennial Lakes radiance at sunset. I have felt the kindness and humanity of the Adina people firsthand for the last 16 years. They deserve sufficient EMS staffing to rely on. We are an incredible city. We deserve the title of grandeur. However, our sublimity falls, flails, and collapses when we cannot secure citizens basic needs. Tonight, I ask you to commit to fully staffing EMS at 12 members because EMS is not a luxury but a necessity. We can be the city's mythic promise, but only when necessities like EMS are prioritized above all else. Um, folks, [applause] folks, um, yeah, I should have I should have mentioned this earlier. This is a this is a safe environment and there are people in here with differing opinions and we try to make sure that this is a place where everybody feels welcome and they can come and give their opinion without worrying about whether somebody's going to clap or jeer uh or cheer. And so let's try to maintain our emotions here and and not just just handle everything in a in a in a civil sort of way uh in a respectful way without any uh clapping or any other activity going on. Thank you for that. U and would you come back up, young man, and and did you give your name? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. I just missed it when you started. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead. >> Uh good evening, mayor, city council members. Uh my name's Emily Ais. I will not be as eloquent as my son. I promise that. Um I have called Adina home for almost 16 years. And in these years, I have made many friends through school, sports, neighborhood events, and other activities. We have a great community in Adina. In my concern over funding for the paramedic firefighters, I have reached out and interacted with various friends through the city and they have spoken with their friends and neighbors uh through the city. Many have welcomed signing the petition for more paramedic firefighters. Uh I have uh the petition here tonight that I'll hand over. Sorry. Um, and it's been signed by 241 residents in 18 different neighborhoods across the Dina to include Ardan Park, Birchest, Bredesen Park, Chowan Park, Concord, Country Club, Countryside, Creek Null, Creek Valley, Dewey Hill, Golf Terrace Heights, Highlands, Indian Hills, Lake Cornelia, Morningside, Parkwood, Nolles, Stouter Park, and Todd Park. I love the conversations that I've had as we talk about public safety and paramedic firefighter staffing. People are initially shocked that the paramedic firefighters have been underfunded. After the shock wears off, most people voice their frustration. City council and mayor, you are correct that there is a desire, a strong desire to keep the tax levy for 2026 under 10%. However, people do prioritize community safety as they consider the levy. There are questions about how money is spent and whether the city is spending too much money on wants [clears throat] instead of needs. The questions include, why are only the paramedic firefighters under consideration for cuts from the budget? Why do we have an ambulance and fire truck that cannot be staffed? Is it safe for only two firefighters to respond to my house fire? Is this a liability to residents and to the firefighters? Why do we have a state-of-the-art firehouse and not enough paramedic firefighters to staff it? Why was the Why was the decision to fund repairs of the aquatic center not voted on in a referendum? Why are we discussing a $20 million proposed tunnel when we can't even staff our emergency response? I'm here tonight to inform you that the city is now anxiously awaiting your response on the tax levy for 2026. I've also been asked to pass along a thank you for the paramedic firefighters. Thank you for showing up to a job that every day carries risk. Please know that you are seen and the community will continue to ask for safe staffing for you. Thank you. >> Thank you. [clears throat] Thank you, Miss Everis. >> Hi, my name is Alicia Gibson and I live in the Morningside neighborhood. I serve on the steering committee for the neighborhood association there. And I would like to share results from a survey that we created to inform residents about the issue of the paramedic firefighter funding and to gauge their support for maintaining the 12 hires as published in the truth and taxation materials. So in some the survey shows overwhelming support for funding paramedic firefighters and that cutting hires from 12 does not meet residents priorities. So let me explain. 84 people took this online survey. Uh 25 or 30% of those respondents do not live in the Morningside neighborhood. The first substantive question was asked how long the respondent believed it would take firefighters to arrive. Five minutes was uh the most common response. Um with the bulk I'm kind of short. I'm g bring this down. I have to go my tip toes. Uh with the bulk assuming um somewhere between 5 to 10 minutes. Notably, someone said that it would take 20 minutes plus two epipins because that's how long it took when they had an emergency. Next, we pointed out that for all of Adina, it takes 12 minutes 90% of the time. and in the northeast part of the city that rises to 15 minutes. The survey included information presented by Chief Slama that survival in a cardiac emergency decreases by 7 to 10% each minute after the first six and that flashover or the point at which a house is engulfed in flames occurs in 20 minutes in old homes and in 3 to 5 minutes for new ones. With that in mind, we asked if more paramedic firefighters should be hired. There were only two nos and one no opinion. Next, we asked what level of priority this should be in the budget. Uh there were 13 moderate priorities and three no opinions, meaning 81% of respondents said this should be given the highest priority. When informed that council took this item out of the budget last year and that the levy with the 12 hires would be 11.3.03, 03. We asked if the item should be removed to lower the levy. Only two people said yes. Two people had no opinion. 94% of respondents would be willing to have an 11.03 levy increase in order to keep paramedic firefighters in the budget. Today, thankfully, we're hearing that that would not be necessary, that 11% would not be necessary to keep uh the 12. So clearly we're long overdue for, you know, maybe a a conversation around wants and needs. I want to say that I, you know, really feel for all of you having to make these hard decisions. Uh, but the frustrating thing here for many of us is that it feels like only really needs are under discussion for cutting in this, you know, where we're what we're looking at. Um, finally, I just want to say that one thing we've heard is that the only way to address this response Oh, sorry. I'm out of time. I'll send that to you via email. >> Thank you, Miss Gibson. Yeah, thanks. Please do so. >> Mayor, mayor, [clears throat] council members, my name is uh Dr. Lisa Hollensteiner. Live in the Morningside area. Um I was an emergency department physician at Fairview Southdale for 32 years. Most of our patients there were very sick. Um increasing numbers with our growing population, aging population. heart attacks, strokes, sepsis, pneumonia, drug overdoses, car accidents. We saw it all. Many of the patients came in via Edina ambulance and our paramedics are excellent. You heard some of the talk about response times. Six minutes recommended response time for Edina from the 2018 comprehensive plan. [clears throat and cough] 6 to 8 minutes recommended response time based on national measures. 12 and a half minutes average current response time for all EDIA fire and ambulance calls. And for us in Morningside, 16 or more minutes average response time for fire and ambulance calls over the last few years, which is more than 10 minutes greater than what's recommended. So what is the big deal about the difference of a few minutes between what's recommended response time and current Edina performance? Actually, a few minutes can mean the difference between life and death or increased disability. Let's talk about three situations. Heart attacks, strokes, trauma. You have a spouse, say, who lives in Morningside, who starts to complain of chest pain, and you call 911. While you wait, the situation is worsening. Your spouse says the pressure is increasing. They're nauseous. They're sweaty. They're gray. And then about 5 minutes in after the call to 911, your spouse collapses in cardiac arrest and you're waiting and waiting for the paramedics to arrive. And as was stated, survival decreases 7 to 10% every minute of response time. Now, because you wait because you live in Morningside, the paramedics arrive about 10 minutes more later, and by then your spouse is dead, and you wonder, would my spouse have survived if the paramedics had arrived sooner? Second scenario, you have sudden onset of right-sided weakness. Your family member believes you're having a stroke and calls 911. An off-qued phrase is time is brain. There is an estimate that in large vessel strokes patients that 1.9 million neurons die each minute. So the longer the time to treatment, the more the resulting disability. You anxiously await the paramedics who can take you to the hospital for more definitive treatment. while each minute compromises more brain tissue. Last example, your son falls from the roof putting up Christmas lights and suffers life-threatening internal bleeding. Death is imminent unless you can get immediate replacement of IV fluids and rapid transport to the hospital for emergency surgery. However, arrival time is too long and your son passes away. I close with this. You are making decisions that affect the life and death of Edina citizens. You can all lot money to best protect the health of our population or you can make budget decisions that keep us operating at a dangerously low staffing level. What is more important in your budget than the health of our Adina citizens? I can't think of anything. >> Thank you, doctor. >> Hi. >> Yeah, good evening. >> Yeah, there you go. Good evening, Neil Skookmayer. Um, I will just tell a brief story about uh what happened on Halloween night. Halloween night, October 31st, um was a, you know, a party um in Morningside. I I live in Morningside and a friend of mine after the party was walking home and um he crossed France Avenue. He probably went to get soup or something at the co-op. He got hit by a car. Um, briefly after that, he passed away. And I can only wonder what could have been different if EMS had been there sooner than what we've known for 10 years is too long. Thank you. >> Thank you. Hi. Go ahead. >> Good evening. Uh, my name is Craig Strauss. I'm a a Dina resident and a cardiologist at Epid Northwestern Hospital. >> I just want to share with you a few statistics and in support of fully funding uh paramedics. Every year over 800,000 uh people suffer a heart attack. That's about one every 40 seconds. There's more than 350,000 cardiac arrests each year in the United States. And as a cardiologist, I see firsthand that minutes and even seconds matter between life and death. Every minute without advanced medical treatment contributes, has been said about 10% reduction in survival. Delayed paramedic arrival means patients lose critical access to defibrillation, advanced airway management, and early medication administration. These interventions dramatically improve outcomes. 12 additional paramedics or 12 uh funded paramedics would ensure consistent citywide coverage and maintain the nationally recommended response times and benchmarks for high acuity emergencies. Highquality prehosp care reduces downstream costs. Patients who receive timely paramedic treatment experience fewer complications, shorter hospitalizations, and better long-term outcomes, saving the community money. The presence of adequate paramedic staffing is not just a medical issue. It is a public safety obligation. When emergencies occur, residents deserve assurance that help will arrive rapidly, no matter where they are in the city. From my perspective as an Adina resident and as a practicing cardiologist, funding paramedics is one of the most impactful and measurable investments the city can make in its public health and safety. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Dr. Strauss. Let's just charge the cameras center. Okay. >> Good evening and thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Joanie Bennett and for eight years I had the honor of serving where you are this evening on the city council. I understand your work and I appreciate it. The complexity of it, the volume of it, and the urgency of it, and I also understand your desire to reduce the levy, the property tax levy increase. I do not understand why or how for the second year in a row, you are choosing to reduce the levy increase by cutting funding for additional paramedic firefighters. You've mentioned the information that I think is not necessarily in front of a lot of residents. I've had the time fortunately and I've been able to listen to some of your work sessions which are only audio recorded, not video recorded. If you don't recognize the voices, you don't know who's speaking. Um, but I have I have heard some of the comments and I've seen the um the chart showing the different tax impacts or the levy impacts of the different reductions. I don't know if the public understands that on the list tonight is one option that's just three. And with the leave law that's going into effect in the state of Minnesota in J on January 1, that would equal less than one full-time employee. Um, as you've heard from people, emergency response and public safety are core city functions. And again, I just don't know understand why the levy would be decreased two years in a row. On the back of that, I've also overheard some comment, I think, made in work session, some out in the community, that this is just one part of the city. I'm not sure what is meant by this. You all are elected at large. You serve all of the city. Also, it's not accurate. We have information that the response time citywide is 12 and a half minutes and it hasn't been that level. It's been growing since 2021. Um you've heard from people far more qualified than I with professional experience the impact of those delays. There is also some information that again is in writing. It's been part of Chief Slam's presentations, but I'm not sure that all of the public has understood it. And that's that the lack of staff means that some of our expensive and wonderful equipment is sitting unused because we don't have the staff for it. And it also limits our ability to respond when there are overlapping incidents of num a certain number or more. And as you all have heard, I've seen the documents that have been presented to you. This happens hundreds of times a year. And in the incident in question that Ben Ailis referenced and that Emily Avilis helped respond to as a neighbor, there were seven overlapping incidents at once. We are a busy city and public safety is one of the things that draws people to us. But yes, it is literally a matter of life and death. And yes, it is slower uh it is slower in in a part of the city. But again, I wonder with service toward everyone, part of your responsibility, it should not matter. Those the neighborhoods of Country Club, Morningside, and White Oaks are as entitled to service as the rest of the city. Now, I understand that it's going to take a new fire station to reduce the travel time. That is four years off. And we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. First of all, you have to have the staff for that fire department just as you need the staff for fire department too and for the vehicles that sometimes are sitting unused because we don't have the staff for it. The other thing is what's the plan again for the four years? There could be an ambulance stationed at city hall that could respond in the interim in those four years to emergencies in the northeast quadrant, but only if you provide the funding for the adequate staffing. In closing, I'd like to ask you to do your job, please carefully prioritize public safety in your adoption of the budget, and please prioritize all of the residents of Edina. Thank you. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> Good evening, council, staff, [snorts] and attendees. My name is Paul Thompson. I'm a Morningside resident and co-chair of the Morningside Neighborhood Association committee uh of the people you have just heard from. This budget and firefighter staffing issue has really received a lot of attention in our neighborhood as you can tell and not just because Morningside is the most distant neighborhood from a current fire station. We had Chief Slama present twice to our neighborhood, once in July to the steering committee and on October 26 at our annual neighborhood meeting. I now understand the importance of fully staffing the fire paramedic force to deal with the increasing number of overlapping calls due partly to our aging residents like me. My understanding from these visits was that hiring 12 new firefighters was desired outcome as shown in the Edina tax levy that was sent out. This is the same one that's on uh right now on better together [clears throat] with 18 positions. the preference if the federal grant had been received which it wasn't as this number has changed downward to six and possibly lower. I wonder how many of the Edina residents know about these changes. The only way I know about this is being involved with our neighborhood association and our keenly aware citizens on our committee all of you. And for that I am grateful. I if residents look at better together Edina they will still see the same information. My other reason for being here tonight is fiscal uh prudence. As a retired public school teacher and living on a moderate fixed income, my wife Mindy and I are struggling to keep up with the rising taxes fears and unexpected costs like storm damage. Are there not other ways that the city can reduce our budget? Simplify infrastructure repairs, $1.1 million for the sports dome, a tunnel. It's a no-go. Seems unsafe for me to me. And single walkers aren't going to use it. This process has made me more informed and watch as a watchful citizen, which can only lead to improved communication with city officials and council members and to keep the livability and safety for all foremost in the vision of our city. I want to make a difference in creating in Adina our future is telling us is needed. safer drivers, smart land use, and a stronger neighborhood groups. Working with you, we can give our kids and grandkids a cooler place to live. Thank you for listening. >> Yeah. Thanks, Mr. Thompson. Good evening. I'm Jim Dudier. I'm a resident of Adina and also a financial executive and someone who has never sat in your seats. I admire the presentation given by Director Tao. Uh I've seen many like that and I've learned over the years that most people get fuzzed up when they see so many numbers. So, I'd like to look through the other end of the telescope at what you're doing here tonight and what most people here tonight are thinking about, I hope, and that is our property taxes are going up at a rate that's too fast. I [clears throat] did some study of my own and over the last 10 years I've seen two patterns. The first seven years the rates are going up at about the rate of inflation. the last three years they've been much higher than that. In fact, to get the rate down to the 8.96, may I round it to nine? Uh, if you look at the last three years, can you think of a number that represents how much the rates have gone up over those last three years? I'll give you five seconds to think about it. The answer is 30%. 30% over three years. Now, what I'm going to propose is that you all take a pledge. You don't have to say that you're doing it, but I'd like you to think about it. And that is that you're going to try very hard over the next three to five years to keep the rate of inflation of property taxes to the rate of inflation. If we don't do that, we're in big trouble as a city. And I think you know that already because I think you already know what the property tax increases are going to have to be for the next five years and you're not willing to share that. But but you should because I think you'll get even more feedback from the city residents if you don't do that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Good evening. >> Good evening. [clears throat] >> Kyle Kersh, excuse me. Uh, and just wanted to make a couple comments about uh the role of the city of Vina or city council, which is public safety and fiscal responsibility. So, I just want to bring those two topics up because 10% potentially 9% this year. Also looking at next year, 9% potentially and the gentleman before me talked about some increases over the past three years. I don't know if that's fiscally responsible. Not to mention public safety. We had a shooting at Verly's what, yesterday? And we're talking about public safety. I think that should be a big factor in our discussion and especially looking at additional police officers. So my only comment is public safety and fiscal responsibility needs versus wants. Certainly understand the EMTs and the paramedics, the number of people we have to have sufficiently staffed. So maybe there are other avenues that we can look at and reducing our expenses of the city to take care of these basic fundamental needs like public safety. So thank you very much. >> Thanks Mr. Kers. Brian Martin from Edina um Birchest. Thank you for having us here and having this discussion. Um on this discussion, Hanniban County will be increasing their property taxes as well. Correct. The [snorts] state of Minnesota is running a $6 billion deficit, right? $1 billion worth of fraud. So, our tax money clearly is being wasted at many levels of government, which makes this budgeting here even more difficult. Um, I don't think there is a public appetite for it for whatever level it is. As another gentleman said, you're above the rate of inflation. And I can tell you from my personal experience that incomes are not keeping up with inflation. Incomes are going down. And we're going to get lucky if we get maybe a 1 or 2% pay raise this year. So, you're clearly above the wealth and income of many residents in this community. So that's your job. Public safety is the most important thing clearly here, right? But there seems to be a lot of wants versus the needs. So that's what you're going to have to figure out. There seems to be some problems with priorities and budgeting those priorities. But going back to the big news, tax increases are not of any appetite here. So you got to get those somehow in line with the income because the income in this state are going down. There is a lack of prosperity here for a variety of reasons. I know that for a long time there's been some discussion of um affordable housing particularly for seniors, people on fixed incomes. Maybe a good way to address that would be to lower their income or their property taxes. Maybe those on fixed incomes don't pay property taxes. Have you considered that? No. Have you considered I know it sounds like you've done a lot of work on trying to reduce budgets, but have you tried to maybe do a little bit harder work at that? maybe some committees to really look at where not just reductions but real cuts can happen because we as citizens and residents have had real cuts in our incomes and we've had to give up not just wants but a lot of needs. So I appreciate all your work you've done here but you got a lot of work yet to do. Thank you. >> Thanks Mr. Martins. Hi there, Liz Ross from Adina. Uh, so tonight I'm hearing us talk about a 9% levy as if that is restraint. It is not. It is an aggressive expansion, especially when layered on top of all of the other fees, the water fees, the electricity fees, the sales taxes, the bag fees. So, I'll ask this question plainly. What are the results of the restraint that we talked about at this time last year? You guys talked about the May offsite that you would be looking across the full portfolio and you would identify things that could be prioritized or slowed. The slide you shared tonight tells the real story. Adina's tax base has grown more than 35% since 2020. Yet the city's tax levy has grown more than 60%. That gap is not economics. that is budgeting and policy choice. When tax capacity grows that fast, property tax increases should slow down. They continue to outpace it. And now we're raising that tax rate again, which means residents are getting hit twice. Higher home values that they don't realize any value for and higher rates. That's not inflation. That's not inevitable. That is policy. And I want to make something very clear. We are not just paying property taxes. We are getting hit at every single place we go, every single event, every single fee. When you combine all of those, the total municipal burden is grossly out of step with our our peer communities. And when you share just simply the rates, you look across I did this analysis last year. So this is kitchen table economics. These are families making choices and you have to make those choices for the city. You are hearing that you cannot continue to govern as as every department grows every year, no line item ever has to shrink and taxpayers will indefinitely absorb these differences. People will pay for excellence, but they will not continue to fund undisiplined growth. Thank you. >> Thank you. Good [snorts] evening, mayor, council members. My name is Ralph Sickard. This past month, each Adidina taxpayer received a copy of this document to fulfill the legal requirement for truth and taxation. Tonight, Manager Neil and you, the city council, have doubled down on that message, wanting me and the rest of Adina, to believe that the 2026 tax levy will not be the 17% is projected a year ago. You will like residents to only focus on the levy percentage now hovering around 10%. You would like residents to ignore or be ignorant of the tax burden the council has purposefully chosen to peel off Adina's levy and add to other taxing authorities. You'd prefer residents, TV and newspaper reporters to focus only on the optics of the levy percentage and not the true tax bur burden. So, my unanswered questions remain. What would Adina's tax levy be if the $1.2 million council removed from the levy and then added to our utility bills was taken into account? What would Adina's tax levy be if the $500,000 council removed from the levy and then added to Henean County's tax levy was taken into account? Finally, what would Adina's tax levy be if $4 million had not been removed from the levy for capital and equipment spending? A change even the council is not fully aware of spending me spending merely being pushed out to a future year, exacerbating the $70 million of deferred maintenance. Yet, in a previous work session, Mayor Mayor Huffland asked, "How does a well-run city end up with this large of a deferred maintenance problem?" I suggest a look in the mirror and then asks ask what it really takes to be a well-run city. So, truth and taxation, not in a dinina. The process the process that goes on here and the information that has been shared to date is anything but truthful. It's not truthful because it's not the whole truth. Though I've never served on a jur jury, the following phrase has always resonated with me. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Unfortunately, the 2026 budget process was broken from the start. The arbitrary target of a predetermined levy percentage ignored the ramifications of that action. Yet, it has been the practice perpetrated over the last 10 years and one that has led Adina right into the conundrum we currently face. A city manager and a council kicking the can down the road with the hope that either the county, the state, or the federal government will bail out one of the wealthiest suburbs in America. I will close with one last question. During tonight's work session, it was noted that $5 million had been removed from the 2026 levy, but no details were shared, nor have they been shared to date. Manager Neil, please be specific and share those details. All items over $50,000 that were used to lower the levy from 17% to some 10%. And though he's not here in the audience at this point anymore, a shout out to M Mr. Andrew Slama, our fire chief. I'm incredibly proud to have him in that role and he deserves our full support. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Zickert. Anyone else? Lori Gros, a levy of 8.96% is nothing to be proud of. We have high levies because the city is spending too much money. Some suggestions to reduce spending. Reduce staff levels. We're overbloated with staff. The si the assistant city manager wants to spend $100,000 next year to buy a h to hire a contractor to do a staffing study. Why should we be wasting taxpayer dollars like that? If the city manager has the skill to hire somebody, he has the skill to fire them. Moratorum on tiff. You have to stop playing design a city with tiff. It's negatively affecting the levy. No tunnel under France. We don't have the money and you shouldn't be using tiff to put the burden on for the next 25 years. No more outofstate travel for staff and for council. Council members need to reassess their own personal agendas, many which have become part of city policy and are no longer affordable to be sustainable. Eliminate the city manager's two-year fellowship program. It is costing the taxpayers approximately $150,000 over two years. The cost of a firefighter, according to the assistant city manager, is approximately $160,000 annually. I have no issue with his personal agenda of promoting women to be [snorts] in roles of city managers in the future. But I don't think the city taxpayers should be funding his personal interests. staff needs to be more concerned about excess spending in their departments. All you need to find out on this is start looking at the paid claims and you're going to see it. Last year, the Henipin County administrator told the city manager and he spoke during a work session and he told the city council, "Henipin County can take over the role of public health for the city of Edina for no charge to the taxpayers of Edina." Currently, our public health is being farmed out to Bloomington. We used to pay $400,000 a year. Not sure if that has increased or not. The county offers the same services and can do it more efficiently. They have far more staff and in the process we can have a reduction in staff, which is a savings of money. You need to make some decisions on the city liquor stores. They've been poorly managed. They're dead dogs. You can't blame Total Wine anymore. Take a look at the numbers for sales for Richfield. They're about the same as Edina. >> I need to have you wrap up. >> Oh, the red light doesn't show up here on the podium. Um, they make so much more money. Okay, I'm done. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Goods. >> Anyone else? David Frankle. Uh, this has been one of my pet peeves since I've lived in Edina and I've brought this up a number of times and I don't see much of it tonight. We belong to the National League of Cities. They have a website. Use data and evidence and decision-making. We talk about a tunnel. Council says it's dangerous. Dangerous is not a data words, not data analytics. You can't drive down and see what's data. We need that in everything we do. You talk about Braar Arena putting more money into that. I heard about using the outdoor arena to enclose it. Does anybody know that roof was replaced once during initial construction during the Hornets Nets project about 10 years ago because it was made too short and the roof on it now is too short to be enclosed because it only goes to the edge of the arena. With building codes, you cannot enclose that arena without putting on a new roof at ex extensive cost. Plus, it's not near the south arena or east arena, excuse me, to make it accessible to a Zamboni. That arena is very problematic. It also has what's called perafrost below that south rink. And if you're going to try to pull that out of there without breaking into the east arena, you're going to have a fun time with it. That is just going to be a disaster. I don't care what kind of deep pockets you have. It's going to be a disaster. I requested after the hornets nest was finished the development the final cost on that project. Never published. Never ever published. And I went to the state auditor to ask the city manager what the final cost was. Never got it. Public [snorts] works projects need to come in on budget. We have a bridge over Vernon Avenue. The second one over the Canadian Pacific Railroad tracks. That's going to go over budget because of the delay. The bridge that goes pedestrian bridge in Grand View over the railroad tracks that's going to go over budget because of the Department of Justice lawsuit. We have a bridge over cross town pedestrians going to go over budget because of the artwork is deni was denied by the mindot. We got to get public works projects on budget. If they're not going to go on budget, we got to cut back on them. Thank you. Anyone else? Excuse [clears throat] me. Anyone else wish to testify? >> Okay, nobody online. >> Okay. Um since since CO uh and the pandemic, we've been holding some of these matters open a little bit longer so people can follow up with written testimony if they'd like to. And uh though we're going to take this up for a final decision uh at our next meeting in December, uh I think that uh motion tonight should probably include keeping this Let me look at the calendar here. Um keeping this open for additional submissions by anybody who wishes to submit uh testimony. Our next meeting is uh the 16th. I think if we kept it open until uh Sunday the 14th, end of the day on the 14th, uh might be a good idea so people could supplement testimony or provide original testimony if they haven't done so so far. >> Yes. >> I think the recommendation from city staff was to keep it through December 7th so that there's enough time for it to be in the packet. >> Time. Okay. All right. Um Okay. So, let's let's think about uh that from a timing standpoint. And let me ask if someone cares to make a motion uh that we um hold this matter open for further supplemental testimony until the end of the day on the 7th of December and then we take it up at our next uh meeting on December what is that 16th. Is there a motion to that effect? member Agno. >> So moved. >> Okay. Member Pierce. >> Second. >> Seconds. All right. We got a motion and second to um close the public testimony in this matter on December 7th at the end of the day and then take this matter up for final approval at our meeting on December 16th, 2025. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for your input. It's very uh valuable to all of us. I think we've uh had a nice session this evening. Uh, is there a motion to We got a motion and a second. Um, all those in favor of adoption of the motion stated say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. Motion's adopted. We'll take this up on December uh December 16th and we'll hold testimony open for supplemental information until the 7th. All right. Thanks for being here. Maybe the side. >> Yeah, that's that's an interesting question. How are we going to What do you think about heaven? >> Finish that conversation. We'll let a few folks clear out. And Mr. Martins, Mr. Martins, it was good to see you at the uh military event. >> Yes. >> Well, sorry we didn't have a chance to chat a little bit. It was an interesting night. >> It was. >> Thank you. Hello, Manager Neil. Um, that was probably one of the more robust public hearings we've had at the years I've been involved. uh people coming to city hall to express their concerns uh about the budget and their observations on public safety. Uh and it strikes me that if we just do this work if we just do a work session on the um 16th that we might not have we might shortcut ourselves on the time involved that we need to have a discussion. I'm just concerned about I don't know what you got planned for the 16th for a work session, but it seems to me like budget ought to be at the top of the list. I'm wondering even about a meeting before that on a special basis to talk about >> Well, we do have we have a special meeting scheduled for for next week, next Monday. Then we on the I believe our work session I believe our work session is our our joint meeting with um our legislative. Yeah, our our legislators, I don't know what we have queued up yet for the >> Yeah. Council members, what do you what do you think about how we use our time between now and the 16th? >> Is it possible um is it possible to talk on the 8th? I mean, we've got the meeting noticed, right? And we haven't set the agenda other than well, we know what it is. It's the um street reconstruction >> schedule, but we could we can we add um agenda items to that? >> Sure. >> I don't know. Do we have time >> from a notice standpoint? >> Oh, sure. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm I'm out of town the 7th through the 11th, so I I don't know how I missed the street reconstruction schedule for the ETH, but I won't be here for that. Let's look at this calendar. Well, member Pierce, tell me what your your thoughts are in terms of how to how to get to the decision-making portion of this matter on the 16th with enough time to have a robust conversation on I mean on on the budget. Any thoughts on that? I guess I should just confirm that I can't be remote >> given there is some rule changes. >> I don't know if I can be if I can be remote on >> where are we with that right now? >> The policy goes into place on January 1. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. Um, so then we I >> Is everybody else available on the ETH? Is that member Pierce? >> Member Rissa. Um, I have a question because I really think that there is a way for us to cut costs and there were a lot of people here who were concerned about the underpass and I have done a lot of research. I've read the feasibility study and I just don't understand how this can go forward and I just I feel like when is the time, you know, I I put this on council recommendations and I was out of town on May 6th. So, we never actually went over the council recommendations that I submitted in any kind of public venue or I mean at a a work session or a council meeting. And I just want assurance that before we do the vote, I'm going to be able to say what I feel that I responsibly need to say. And I just want to know when that's going to happen. >> Council member Jackson. >> So I'm a little confused. [clears throat] Um the underpass is not whether we approve it or not. The budget is that's not the budget discussion. So are you saying that you want to have a discussion about the the underpass or is that in conjunction with the you can't vote on the budget unless you know about the underpass? I I'm I'm confused. It's in the context of we need to figure out how to move forward in a way where we're not spending so much money and in the context of we have had three city employees now working on this. Some of them have been working on it for two years. That's a lot of staff time. And so if we and one of the things that I recommended was just stop working on the underpass. And there is enough out there when you watch the video you see there is no clear ADA access. Um you read the feasibility report they said the bridge could not move forward because there was no ADA access. Um it's claimed that it will succeed because it will be two bridges. It's not two bridges. It's a tunnel with a slit on the top. Um but so the arguments behind advancing the tunnel I feel do not hold water. I feel we've invested so much time and I think you know tonight at the work session we talked about you have to come up with ways to save money. I think if we just stopped investing so much staff time we could save a lot of time and hours. And if we looked at the way we approached development, instead of starting with really high up visioning and all this stuff, we started with what can the site actually be used for? So that there was a pragmatic analysis at the very beginning instead of waiting until the site plan to try to figure out how are we going to wedge this through. And we we are in the habit of approaching development in a way that is backwards and we need to stop doing that. And so yeah, you can say it's not an item specifically, but it's an approach that is really very wasteful and we need to, you know, figure out how to stop doing that. But there, you know, we've already got one piece of infrastructure where we're working with the DOJ and it's it's not viable to continue to work in a way where we're teeing ourselves up and, you know, potentially looking at spending money on an engineering study for a project that really doesn't, you know, have any viability. So, I I'm frustrated because I do think this really matters. And I think we heard from people saying you need to think about needs versus wants, but you also need to think about reality and what can actually happen. So that's where I'm coming from. >> Yeah, I would I would disagree with you in terms of how we got to where we are on the on the underpass. I think it's it was that it all evolved out of that opportunity of two properties redeveloping across the street from each other theoretically at the same time. And so to look at whether this made any sense has been a really deliberate careful sort of analysis and now we're at that next phase where we would potentially have to spend a significant amount of money. Uh and I think that the time that's been involved has been uh primarily our economic development director but uh that issue aside that is set for a discussion in January and it may come to nothing because if they don't close on the property in December uh that the development on the west side has to continue on. So it it to me I I joined member Jackson in saying it's it's not to me for part of the budget discussion, but we heard quite a bit of information tonight budget related that that dealt with uh uh adequately staffing our our firefighters, which you've been a proponent of and I think we all have. We all want to make sure that we can get to where we need to get as quickly as we can get there to serve people as well as possible. So response times and outcomes are really important. Um and uh and then so we've got to talk that through some more. And then I think just some of the comments of residents about uh what that rate of increase ought to be is something that we need to take to heart and have a conversation about. So um you know, you've got your view of the world. I've got my view of it. It's it's just but to to to make a pronouncement that this is just wrong. It's it's just your opinion. It is just my opinion, but I really think if we started with an approach, you know, when you can say, "Oh, it was this golden opportunity. These two sites are, you know, it's a once in a lifetime." And we heard that repeatedly, but then we never did a screening to find out if this was something that was viable in terms of ADA needs. And I think there's room for dreaming a but it's also and to say, "Hey, this is a great opportunity, but at the same time, it's got to be done in a way where there's more pragmatism." And I think all of us really do have what's best for Edina in our hearts and that's what we want. U but I think there could be a lot of savings that we could have if we changed our approach to development and I think that just really needs to happen. And I think you're right, we can agree to disagree, but um it's really hard when there's so many examples of this. Um, so anyhow, uh, I guess >> I don't think you mean to do this, but what when you make some of your comments, it it feels like you're casting a broad brush and and and implicating us in some kind of a um, not implicating, but you I I end up feeling like uh you're you're not thinking that we're doing our job. And so I feel like we're we're doing our job as best we can and trying to look at things maybe not in the same way, but uh the responsibility I think that all of us feel to the community is is right up there at the highest possible level. Every single one of us on this on this council feels a responsibility and inherent responsibility everybody in our community to make this the best possible place we can make it. We heard a lot of testimony tonight. I'm going to turn to uh member Pierce Noah and then member I think they've got some comments as well. >> Uh thanks Mr. Mayor. Um so two things. If if we can meet on the 11th we have the H scheduled if if that could be an extended session somehow. [clears throat] then I can drive back Wednesday night um cuz I'm out of town, but I am um I'm up north. Um so I could drive back late Wednesday night and be here on the 11th >> and use Thursday as a council meeting. >> I could do that and then maybe even Friday if that worked, if we needed more time. Um, and then the following week I I'm I mean that's the 16th is Tuesday and then um so I'm here Tuesday but Monday if we needed to do something I suppose. So that's just answering the question you asked me. >> Um and then like >> so I I feel like there's a couple of things and I'm just being really honest here. I think I'm doing a horrible job at explaining a few things. And so, one of the things that has irritated me is when anybody says that we shouldn't that fire safety should not be the only decision that we're taking to reduce the levy. And like that's just that's not true. That's not what we're doing. But somehow that narrative is set and so I know I just need to leave it alone. Uh but just one more time and just another example we eliminated the assessing department. And so if they're listening tonight and they hear someone say, "Well, that's the only department we're looking at to reduce the levy." I mean, if I were them, that would make me feel some kind of way because what they did was important and we made a tough decision to reduce the levy and there were a number of other um changes that were made throughout the course of the year. Um, and so it wasn't just this one, but clearly that narrative is there. I'm not doing a good job of trying to explain that. Um, so I just wanted to say that and I'm just going to move on from that. Um, the second thing I would would say and I I do think it's kind of to um, member Risser's point, I just look at this differently and you guys have heard me say some of these things before. Um, I actually do think that there's more um reductions we could make in city the way we run the city. Um, I am not a city manager. I don't run parks and wreck. Um I'm the chief operating officer at a company with responsibility for plant ops, five plants, um finance, um human resources, um and so I and technology. So I have responsibility for that. If you ask me to optimize that, I can do that because I know all the elements that go into every service. And when our board and CEO says we have to we have to save $5 million um a month next year. James, I need the operating um organization side of the organization to start the year at a million dollars of savings. I can do that because I understand the makeup of those services. I don't understand the city services and the makeup and I frankly don't think it's my job to understand them to that degree. But I think that there is savings there. And so I would love to say and I you I said in a working session if we think that based on the data and the based on the recommendation of our chief that having 12 firefighters is the best thing uh from a services perspective and we heard a lot of that in the testimony. I would support that but I would just say to manager Neil we also can't increase the levy. So, we have to figure out a way to pay for those. Um, and so the reason I say it's kind of what member Rissa is saying, I don't know if the um the tom I don't know if that's a great idea to get to the answer of how to reduce costs. It's an idea. Um, I would love to see us descertify tiff districts so that that tax capacity can go back into the levy. My understanding is we're 10 years away from being able to do that on a broad basis within multiple tiff districts. So, how do we get that part done? It's us looking at our policies and saying, "All right, yeah, maybe our tiff policy could be different. I can set the context and the goal of how to of where I think we need to be and I'm pointing at member Agnu. I can do that with actual data. I can do that with forecasts across multiple cities that are like ours. And I can tell you for us to have an operating levy that's sustainable, we need to be somewhere between four and 7%. It's probably six, but we have to be able to hit six and we have to be able to stay there and operate within that. And so there's a delta between where we're operating now and that 6%. And whether you want to call the Delta waste, I choose not to call it that. I choose to say there's a way we operated in the past and the way we need to operate in the future. And I need manager Neil and the leaders in the city to figure out what that gap is and bring us that to hit that target. But we're not even on the same page as to is that the right target, right? That's just or that's just me talking. Um and so I I would I would love to see us um well, first we do we should acknowledge all the work that people have done to get us here. If someone stands at the podium and says that's not enough, I get that. But man, had we not done what we did this year, we were looking at 10, 13, 17% projections. And we said we like that to be um single digits and we've accomplished that twice by making decisions. Um but we do need to do more. And so I just have a philosophy of that's how I look at it. That's what I'm looking for us to to do. Um, but all I can do is that's what I think the vision should be and I am happy to meet with any director and manager to talk through that. I've done that multiple times this year. But that's where I think we need to be and we have to it's not and it can't take us we can't accomplish that in a sustainable way in one year right but we have to set a trajectory to get there and we'll have to make tough decisions to get there what we've done this year I feel are incremental changes which is good right but to hit a target like that, we have to make some serious changes of how we operate. And to me, that's what the Delta is. We have to figure out a way to operate differently. We need policies that impact that tax capacity. We need policies that also help us change the trajectory of what the trajectory of what we're doing. But that's hard work to do. Uh but I mean I'm here for it. Uh but it's hard work to do. So um that's how I that's how I think about it. Right or wrong. >> Make sure those sharing those thoughts. Member. >> Thank you. Member Pierce. Um, I also work in corporate America and and understand a lot of that. But when I am challenged to do things at a lower cost, it's going to impact timeline or it's going to impact what I'm delivering. And so I think that we we need to be conscious of we are being asked to do more when it comes to public safety. Um we also because of the way that Edina was built um kind of in the the 50s60s right when you build everything at once everything comes due for repair and for reinvestment kind of at the same time and that's the generation that's the phase that we're in right now and we've talked about this as a council. We keep deferring maintenance on stuff [clears throat] >> that that comes due and we we have a lot of that right now and pushing that out. We we come to situations like the aquatic center where all of a sudden it's a lot more costly and we have to make a decision of is this an asset that we keep as a part of our city or potentially risk losing it. And so we want to not defer maintenance. We want to enhance public safety and we want to do so at a lower cost like at a c and I I hear you and I want to do that but at a certain point I don't know that it's possible right it doesn't matter how many fellowships we cut at $75,000 a year that isn't going to cover the cost of a third fire station right and so I am fearful of setting a specific number increase of capping ourselves at 6%. Whatever that number might be, maybe it's single digits because we can't just do that without having the hard conversations of what is it that our community is asking for that we don't want to meet the needs on. And so when we're having some of these discussions on and I think the firefighters is a great opportunity because that is something that that's forefront for us. um you know where I landed on what with six firefighters in particular for something that I am supporting and no it might not be the the 12 or the 18 that was discussed and and we hear from a lot of our residents is desired. Um the reason that I've honed in on six being the right number is because today 51% of the time over the last three months um we couldn't staff three full ambulances. Okay. We know though that there are 13.47% of the time where there are three or more concurrent or overlapping calls. So if we can get our staffing levels up to a point of being able to fully staff those three ambulances and we we have a ton of data on our overlapping calls, we can meet the needs of our community over 95% of the time to get to that next level. Right? Right? If we were to fully staff for four vehicles, all of us like you get you reach the point of diminishing returns. And those are the kinds of conversations that we have to have that are rooted in data of what does it cost to fully staff that fourth vehicle. What is the impact because what are the the delta on when we have those overlapping incidents actually is um only 3.9% of the time do we have four or more overlapping incidents. And so I think this is where I want us to to continue to drive the conversation and I know member Pierce this is what you were alluding to when you pointed to me about the data is how can we have these conversations rooted in I would love if we could prevent every death that results from an emergency in Edina but there are also a lot of times that happen this year where there are seven overlapping incidents and we we're not as a city council going to make the decision to staff nor do I think our community is asking asking us to to staff to meet seven concurrent incidents at once. But these are the gives and the takes that we need to make the the decision on. And so I welcome the conversation. I think it's going to be really hard to and I want to be transparent with with members of the community that and you were saying this too, we might have some hard years because of the continued investment, the the changes that we're making, how we're doing street reconstruction, the commitments that we've already made to building out the second fire station and the bonding for that, the the bridge project over um highway 100. like they're all these previous commitments that we have made and so we c unless we substantially reduce services or really really rethink the way we're doing things it can't happen overnight and so I think the challenge to us is to continue figuring out how do we better storytell how do we better explain and I I think there was a really great public comment tonight of let's give the data points of all the decisions that we made over 50,000 and in reduction to the levy because there were a lot of those decisions and I think that we could celebrate more of those to show here are all the ways that we are tactically making cuts because we really are we are doing a lot of the hard work. Um we need to do more. There is definitely more opportunity but let's talk about you know what we're doing with the liquor store. We decided to shift some of the staffing to do some consolidation. That's impactful right? like those are people's jobs and we keep hearing that we we should rethink the the liquor store as a part of the city. Well, today it's still making us money, right? It's still making us money and we've looked at how can we reconfigure staffing so that it costs us less money to maintain. We're we're doing that hard work. Um so I do want us to get better about calling attention to some of that really great those great data points that I know are in here. The last thing I will say is I I really want to continue to challenge the way that we're talking and I think member Risser, you know, I don't understand what your basis is for stating that a tunnel that has not yet been designed is not ADA compliant because it hasn't been designed and therefore you cannot say that it is not ADA compliant. And so I just want to be really careful when we were making these assumptions. we as a city need to prioritize ADA compliance. And so my ask would be if this is something that we're progressing, I would not approve something that wasn't ADA compliant. And so I I don't think it's I think it's too premature to say that it wouldn't be ADA compliant. Um but with that, thank you. >> Thank you. Member Jackson, >> back to member Russer. >> Yeah, I have a couple of questions. two things that are in the budget in my mind are looking at cost reduction and one of them was raised this evening and so I don't know uh assistant manager lens if you're the person or or manager Neil um one is the staffing study and the other is a study of Edinburgh Park and it's my understanding that the purpose behind having the staffing study is to have an outside set of eyes look at how we are staffed and whether there are efficiencies to be found there. Um, can you tell me confirm if that's the purpose of this or or flesh out a little bit more about what that's involved? The >> the staffing study wasn't um wasn't proposed by staff. So, it was it was a council proposal. So, I I'm not sure yet. I I think the plan was to uh take it and and figure out what direction it was going to it was going to go in. But, um but that's what I would tell you about that. So in my mind, the staffing study is a way to look for efficiencies in a way that stepping outside of our own situation. A third party can come in and say, "We're overstaffed in this area. We're understaffed in this area." I know we got some efficiencies when we did the public works um study that uh to realign the align the responsibilities of people in public works so that they weren't being interrupted as quickly so they could finish a job um and and things like that came out of that. So my expectation for the staffing study is not to add an expense but to find ways to see whether we are um overstaffed um and from a objective third party so that we're not looking at our neighbor saying you have to leave kind of thing. And then the same with the Edinburghough park. It is ex it's expensive. It loses money and it needs a lot of repairs and we need some help figuring out what to do about that. And and that's beyond the capability I believe of where we're at right now. So I don't think those are wasteful dollars. I think those are actually spending money to save money. Um and that's my expectation um from those two things because I I agree with with both member Pierce and uh member Agnu. we do need to bend the curve down and uh member Pierce, you have done so much work on this. I am so grateful for that and um and I've seen your your data and I I really appreciate that because I think you're right, we have to figure out how to bend that curve down. But as member Agnu said, we have generational expenses that can't be ignored. We can't just let all the street lights go out. We can't not repair replace the streets that were built in 1975. They're 50 years old. They've been repaired beautifully for years, but they're reaching the end of their life. The South Rink we've known has perma frost. That's why we had two referenda, not one but two to repair that. And so we've got these generational expenses and we have to address that because I'm looking at our mission, the city of Edina to be the pre-minent place for living, learning, raising families and doing business. This vision is distinguished by a livable environment, effective and valued city services, a sound public infrastructure, a balance of land uses and innovation. And that costs money. It does. And when construction costs are going up astronomically, a lot of what we do is construction, whether it's repairing streets or replacing them. Um, we have just, you know, the cost of a truck has gone up. People laugh at me for talking about the cost of trucks, but the city of Vana buys a lot of trucks and they're going up exponentially and with tariffs even more so. So, I think, you know, I think we're [laughter] on we're doing a lot of work here and I want to acknowledge the work that we've done. Um, but those two items I view as things to look at where we might find some savings, do some additional hard work that maybe we can't see because we're in the middle of it. >> Thank you. Back to member Mercer. >> And first, um, I would like to ask staff, we we did have the video of the underpass teed up and if we could maybe take a look at that and to member Agnu, um, >> Andrew Neil, >> we I don't think we have it though when we >> It's online. I mean it's on if you Google [clears throat] underpass edina I mean okay I I'll >> when we off the agenda >> we took it okay all right um okay apologies for implying that I had like some kind of certification saying that this was not ADA compliant. However, I would respectfully request my colleagues take time to look at that video and as you're watching it at the very beginning, you get an overview of the whole site and you see access coming from the west is coming from private land. and you go down and when you're in front of the opening to the tunnel, you see the only way from the public sidewalk down to the tunnel entrance is by a staircase. Okay? And as you move through the tunnel, you get to this tiny opening. Okay? And we saw pictures, light studies. They're included in the feasibility study, the Pantheon. I mean, major monuments of light. And what we have is a a little tiny opening um 8 ft wide. As you move through and you get to that east end, you are confronted with a staircase. Okay. And at our last meeting, we heard from director Milner that the they had not explored how that connection was going to happen. And I am admittedly really concerned about this project because we are currently working with the DOJ on the Grand View pedestrian bridge. And as I look at that video, which is the design, and then I read through the feasibility study, it was $80,000. the feasibility study. There is really nothing on ADA. You can search ADA, it comes up two times and the first time it comes up is explaining that a bridge was not possible because it doesn't make ADA standards. You search the term disability, it comes up one time. And so I am really concerned about this and apologies to all of you. I didn't mean to hurt people's feelings or make them feel like they weren't doing their jobs. I am really concerned that we have a development process where we don't necessarily start with the basics and and I think we need to learn from the Grand View pedestrian bridge and I also feel like I am not being heard sometimes and it's hard when I make a point or I try to make a point and oh that's not relevant or this is that it doesn't apply and I really do believe that our process in terms of development needs to be looked at so that we can be more efficient and I really do think we could spend we could save a huge amount of staff time if we just did some checks along the way and I remember I worked for a company people are talking about their professional experiences it was a solar garden company and I was a site miner for 18 months so not a huge amount of time, but it was my job to make sure that things were okay with the land and um we went through a process trying to launch projects. People were in charge of different areas and it became clear we needed to have a system so that we could identify fatal flaws in projects early on because if we weren't identifying those fatal flaws early on, we could end up spending huge amounts of money, wasting resources and employee time. So again, apologies. I didn't mean to um speak in a way that was not accurate or was disrespectful. Uh but I am really concerned about this project and I'm really concerned about the way we are approaching things. So thank you. Um that's where I'm coming from. I hope that makes sense. >> Thanks members. Um, just a couple I think supplemental comments on the on the budget comments that were made. I thought they were all excellent by all of you. Um, over the years I've been on the city council, I I have felt like what member referred to as kind of the transition team that this this town is, you know, over over a period of 20 years, we've been replacing everything that's uh infrastructure related and um trying to make decisions that uh are in the best interest of the long-term u livability of the for the people in our community. And um I think it's reflected in the fact that we've got that double AAA bond rating. Uh that we that we are a town that takes care of the things that we own. Um when I'm out visiting with people that have recently moved to weed, they say they move here because it's a town that works. Now, what we heard tonight was a little bit of concern about um our response times and and outcomes on firefighters. We've I think member Agna did a good job of explaining that if we go to six with the budget that we have starting in January, we'll get to fully staff three um ambulances and um we should be meeting the needs of our community at least I think 95% of the time. So that's a good thing. And then we've got time to further analyze as people have expressed concerns over this uh whether we need to add more and I think there's been some sentiment towards another six firefighters, emergency medical services personnel. But we'll get a chance to analyze that in 2026 >> and and decide what what what makes sense in terms of making sure that we're getting to folks in our community in a timely way and and uh trying to help them as best we can from an emergency medical services standpoint. So, um this budgetary process is one that's I think member Pierce pointed out is evolutionary in nature. um as we go into the next phase of it, you know, I think it's inevitable, especially with the staffing study that you alluded to, uh member Jackson, um I had a conversation with the mayor of Burnsville, and they did did a staffing study a couple years ago, and the purpose was to find out exactly what you what you were talking about. Are there places where they might be overstaffed, understaffed? And it also was a a great assistance in them analyzing the needs from a public safety standpoint both with respect to police and fire. And they've been using that that model uh that study and the results of that study to help drive their decision-m around hiring. And we know that 70% of our budget is labor related and and it's a labor intensive business that we're in. Um, but nonetheless, uh, that's some place you'd sort of automatically look, I think, if you're thinking about trying to, um, [clears throat] uh, make sure that you were as careful and cautious as possible and in, uh, in making sure that we had the most effective and efficient delivery of services that we could have. So, uh, manager Neil, what do you think about having a special meeting of the city council in lie of a HA meeting on that Thursday that >> I think inloo would be difficult. There's a number of issues that are I shared them with with council member Ragno. There's a number of issues that are backed up to that meeting to HA issues that are backed up to that particular day. Um what about um not meeting with our legislative delegation tonight? We have to make a budget decision. using that work session to >> I I'm not sure if we've I if we've already invited them. I'm not >> um Let me just clarify. The legislative delegation is not coming on December 16th. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. Was >> my Yeah, we're preparing for that conversation. But um >> so it's our meeting without them in the room and then they come on the 20th for that discussion. Right. I believe a similar um scenario happened last year where in the second uh work session in December was scheduled to have a debrief on the proposed legislative platforms and it um was decided that we needed to take more time to discuss budget priorities. So um >> so we we can do that. I think what that means for you is we if we're going to have if we're going to gather some um some input from you on legislative uh platform changes, we might do that individually or or in pairs. Um but you wouldn't have a meeting necessarily scheduled to do it before you actually meet with legislators. And actually in that meeting, remember legislators are coming in and telling you a little bit about what they think they can they'll be able to do this year. >> Member Pierce. Um, so can I ask um what do we need to talk about from a budget standpoint when when I sit back and think about it? >> Yeah, that's a great it's a great question. I I was thinking about the same thing myself. I think one thing we would want to visit about is manager Neil and I had a conversation at noon today about whether we could find further reductions on one-time spending that could be deferred. uh and we looked at the CIP uh and some projects that were scheduled for 2026. I unfortunately had a antiquated copy of the 20 of the 2025 through whatever it was 2030 CIP. I thought there were a few things in there that we could >> we could push back a year and I think manager Neil was thinking the same thing, but we already made some of those adjustments. Uh and so they're going to look a little bit at what's possible here >> to get down below where we are now uh on the recommendation of the city manager. So that might be something worth talking about in a work session as opposed to just taking it on cold turkey in a in a city council meeting. >> No, that makes sense. I so the reason I asked is I was trying to separate what everything I'm talking about is strategy and philosophy and like we don't need to talk about that in the budget conversation because I don't think it's going to change anything um in the next two weeks. Um, and so if there are are specific conversations, um, which the one would be EMS, what are we going to do about that? But I think that's the only one. >> Yeah. And then these other ideas that you may come up with. >> So we can make that the December 16th work session work and then that's an hour and a half or two hours if you started at five. >> [clears throat] >> And and this is just by way of illustration, but when we met with folks to talk yesterday, I think it was to talk about um or Monday uh to talk about the Braraw Race Arena, we talked touched briefly on Lewis Park. Well, nothing's been designed there yet. There's been no work done on that park shelter building. And so that could possibly be in the mix too as they concentrate on Braarce Arena and all the other things that are related to the uh sales tax revenue including Fred Richards Park. Um anyway, I think there's a there's a few ideas that the that the staff wants to come up with that they could bounce off to uh achieve a further reduction >> uh in the in the rate. So I think that mayor is the same process we did last year >> where you came staff came back with some recommendations and then we did I think we voted on those. >> Yeah. >> Um and so I like we can do that and I think we probably need to do that to to get a budget for 2026 approved. My question then would be how do we get on the same page from a philosophy standpoint um to be able to give direction and I'll just give you one short example. I get the whole reason behind us asking for the consultant, but if my board said to me, James, you need to find $5 million and we don't believe you can do it, so we're going to hire somebody else to come in to do that. I'd be offended by that. And so I just like I but that's a philosophy deal. And so I would be saying to manager Neil, you've been running the city. Here's where we think we need to be. Go do it. And I will walk along beside you as we do it. But that's a different that's a philosophy difference in how you manage. I am not suggesting we have a a levy cap. Um, I'm suggesting a couple of different constructs that lead to a shift in how we um spend. That's a philosophy conversation and we aren't going to talk about any of that between now and the 16th. So that's why I was asking that. So, if we can >> put all of that on the side and say, "All right, what are the two or three things we need to get answers on to be able to prove the budget, I don't know that it's a long meeting." Honestly, I >> think we're all really sensitive to the pressures on on people that we're facing. You know, you think about somebody, I think it was Mr. Martins mentioned the uh county taxation level and and we all know from doing this work that down at the county the state safety net hospital is Henipin County Medical Center and they were getting $800 million a year in Medicaid and that's been cut I think in half and so how is that state safety net in that hospital going to function in the future that never gets any money from the legislature maybe the legislature step up to the plate. Maybe they won't, but all of us in Henipin County are going to be asked to step up in some way. And so, there are all these issues that are going on in the time we're living in that we need to be thinking about um in a broad sort of way that that are impacting all of us as we try to work on this together and be sensitive to the the input we're getting from our residents, which I believe we all are. Um, okay. got more work on the agenda here too to do. We're done with the public hearings. Um let me go to this uh resolution 2025-115 uh which is the donations on behalf of the city of Vidat accepting those donations. Uh is there a motion to adopt that resolution 2025-115? >> So moved. >> Second. Member Pierce moves member Jackson seconds the adoption of resolution 2025-115 which accepts donations on behalf of the city of Vina. Uh any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of resolution 2025-115 say I. >> I. >> I opposed. >> Carried. Resolution 2025115 is adopted. Uh donations this reporting period I signed a couple of letters here. Uh the Adina Arts Center uh was the recipient of a $6,950.50 gift from the not gift but the allocation from the Adena Chamber of Commerce that now was running the fall into the Arts Festival. And uh two of the partners on that uh endeavor are the Adina Arts Center and Centennial Lakes Park and Centennial Lakes Park received $13,900.99 from Adina Chamber as a result of the success of the Fallen to the Arts Festival. So that'll all be posted on the city website. Um now we are uh past 8.2 two, which is deferred to the 20th of January. And we're going to talk a little bit about the back to Ptow and our finance director to talk about the city code setting fees for 2026. >> Oh, >> director Tao needed to go grab her stuff. So, maybe if you want to take a quick stretch break. Uh, she'll be right back. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Hi. >> Hi. Welcome back. I apologize. So, what you have in front of you is ordinance number two 220 2025-16 which amends chapter 2 of the city code setting the fees for 2026. Um there's a few new fee that we are introducing with these uh new fee changes for 26. This includes new liquor license fees. Um $300 for consumption and display permits. Special events application fee which is $300. a lower potency hemp edibles registration fee, which is 125, initial cannabis business registration of $500, and cannabis business registration renewals of $1,000. With that being said, there is uh over a dozen increased fees that we also have in front of you from any denomination of uh 50 cents to um the uh top one was uh $25 for um animal disposal increased by $25 per animal. So therefore um that is I'm not going to name all of those out as it's also included in the staff memo that is provided to you. And then there's also the utility fees um which we are also proposing to you to adopt for 2026. Um earlier tonight um we've discussed and we had a discussion with uh council as far as direction for uh possibly a fourth uh tier for residential. However, um we also saw that there was an opportunity in uh that same time frame of when we will be when I will be coming back to you with the morning side rates um as those rates were depending on um the water rate cost from city of Minneapolis first and so we will continue having the discussion for on that topic then however the utility fee increases for water that we are proposing is an increase of 5.25% to 5% sewer user rates increased of 9.25 and then a storm water rate increased of 15%. With your water connection fee increase uh by 3% and sewer connection fee increased by 9%. Now all these fee changes or fee proposal are uh is going to help us stay aligned with inflation and the standard of living changes uh here uh in the city of Edina. They are also essential for covering operational and capital cost of our aging utility system and our expanding system capacity. Um these fees are crucial to our work plan and ensuring the city remains financially sustainable. Therefore, I ask that council approve ordinance number 2025-16 amending city code chapter 2 section 2724 schedule A setting the fees for 26 and grant the first reading. Uh we'll be I'll be back in December 16th uh where you will have the second reading and take up adoption that night. >> Right. Very good. Questions for Director Tal? >> Yeah. Yeah. Council member Pierce. >> Um so I apologize for not sending this question earlier. Uh but uh we spent a lot of time on um water rates. Mhm. >> Um I just wanted to get some context on some of these other rates like um the one that really started that stuck out to me that made me look deeper at these was Chapter 8. So the $2 increase for commercial kennel, like how do we figure out that we need to increase that rate and and why are we increasing it? Um, and I have the same question about, you know, several of the uh other ones that are related to services and businesses >> with the thought that if we're increasing a, you know, a rate for, you know, somebody that's doing nails, they're going to pass that. They probably are going to pass those costs on. And so I just wanted to get an understanding of how do we come up with those increases for things like that. >> Yeah. No, that's a good question. Um, so just a little bit on the process. So finance leads uh takes the lead in uh collecting all these fee changes from all the different departments that implement these fees. Um and so I would assume and I can get back to you after discuss discussing this with the different departments that propose their fee changes is um to to as we discussed at the beginning of the budget process where we take a look at the charges for service fees or the permit fees that we implement in the city code here. um annually we take a look to see where do we stand in in terms of competition in terms of also where do we come out uh at the end and so to my assumption I believe the departments took a look at what that is like but to answer your question more thoroughly I'll have to get back to you after discussing with the different directors or departments >> okay thank you >> just I'll just add a little bit on to that it it uh state statute requires us to take an action on some of our fees by ordinance and some of our fees by resolution. So that's why you see two different kind of lists tonight. Um we also have a state statute statute uh demand that the the the fee has to be connected to the cost of the service, right? So you can't you can't set your fee structure up uh to make a profit in any particular area. So we do we do take that analysis into account as well and we asked we asked those who those uh division managers and department heads who are proposing fee increases to look at them and make sure that they justify uh the connection. Is there been an increase in the in the cost of the service that drives the increase of the of the service uh user fee. >> Any other questions? Um all right. So the um requested action is uh on a first reading basis uh be to approve uh ordinance 2025-16 which amends city code chapter 2 section 2-724 schedule A setting fees for 2026 and as I mentioned earlier granting first reading and we'll take it up on a final basis on December 16th. Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Member Jackson moves. Member Pierce seconds the adoption of the motion as stated on a first reading basis. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated, say I. On uh on a first reading basis, say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. >> Carried. We'll take it up for a final decision on the 16th of December when we work on the budget. >> Sounds good. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. We've got one other matter this evening and Gary Teague, our community development director, has this matter that's been to the planning commission now in front of the council. >> Yes. Thank you, mayor. Uh members of council, this is the action item that you held a public hearing on this at at your last meeting. This is a a preliminary and final plat for the Macy's project. um discussed a little bit uh this evening in Edina plat expire if they're not filed at the county after one year. Um the applicant after the project was approved uh did not file the plat as they haven't closed on the property yet, but they are back in. Um it's the same plat. Um, as we talked about last time, once the roadways and sidewalks are uh constructed, easements would be established over them for the use of the public. Uh, those roadways and sidewalks would be maintained by the developer. So, there's no cost to the city to maintain that, but there would be a public easement over them for them to use that. the existing uh the the regional trail along the south lot line that's located within an existing easement. So there's no change there. So no change to the plat that was approved by the council a year ago. Uh as mentioned the uh planning commission is unanimously recommending approval of the plat as well. Uh Patrick Brahma is here from Enclave should you have any questions. And with that I'll turn it over to the mayor. >> All right. Thank you. Questions for Director Teague. >> Member Risser. Um, at the public hearing, we did have a resident voice concerns that this subdivision was being submitted by an individual who is not or an entity that's not the owner of the land. Can you is this a problem? >> Uh, the property owner signs the application on behalf of the the applicant is the prospective property owner, but the current property owner did sign the application. >> Thank you. Anything further for Director Teague? Right. Um, is there a motion to approve resolution 2025-107 approving a subdivision preliminary and final plat for 7235 France Avenue? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Member Jackson moves. Member Pierce seconds the adoption of the motion as stated, which is the approval of resolution 2025-107, uh, which would approve a subdivision preliminary and final plat for 7235 France Avenue. Uh, any further discussion? >> Yes, member Risser. >> Okay. And um with respect, one of the concerns that I have is that as we've moved this project forward, um it wasn't really made clear, at least to me, uh the circumstances of how the public space, the prominade extension would be um actually, you know, come into existence. And so now sort of learning after the narrative that it was going to be, you know, really very open to the public and and all of that, I just as this whole process sort of rolls out. I'm concerned, you know, it would have been nice and perhaps I'm me remembering this incorrectly, but it would have been nice to really emphasize that this is going to be done in a certain way. This is going to be open to the public, but this is not going to be something that is necessarily going to function the same way as the rest of the prominade. And I maybe I'm wrong on that, but I just very respectfully that's a concern that I have because I think as residents learned about this, it's an extension. It's east west and it it really made it seem like it would flow and it would function in the exact same way. So I just want to say that >> same question, Director Teague. >> Yeah, it it won't be exactly it won't be the city's responsibility to maintain it in the future, but the public will have access to to use it just the same way as as it uses the prominade >> might be for you or Mr. Kendall, but the the role of the development agreement, what does that play here in terms of establishing those public uses and public places and spaces? >> Yeah, that's all detailed in the development agreement as well that have that have been approved. >> Yeah, Mayor, it it's true. This is not a typical public easement dedicated on a plat in the typical fashion. It's a slightly different approach which the city elected to use in this situation. Um, it has much the same characteristics as a public easement, but it's not the same. The city will not have to maintain it, which is a potentially a benefit, but the city will also won't have the same all the same rights to use it, but the public will still have rights to use it in a similar fashion. So, >> as defined in the development agreement, >> correct? >> Other questions, comments? Yes, member. Go ahead. um with the subdivision the way this is being done. Um I just want to understand in the event and you know hopefully nothing happens with the project the project moves forward exactly as it is but we subdivide for some reason the project does not advance uh then we've got these three parcels and we would then maybe entertain reasonzoning and it would be a very different kind of thing. True, >> Mr. Teague. >> Yes, that is true. There's the the PUD zoning is in place on this site. So, the way the ordinance reads, the the the development that's been proposed is the only thing that can go on that site. So, if there's anything different, they would need a reszoning and it would come back through the planning commission and city council. >> Jackson, >> nothing. Okay. Other questions, concerns? Okay. Yes. Member Agnu. >> Continuing to play out that hypothetical situation. If we did the subdivision and this project didn't go forward, could we nullify the subdivision or or how could that potentially come to be that this could be sold as one parcel in the future? >> Yeah, potentially. If the project doesn't go forward and they don't close on the property, they may not file the plat. So, it's still um it will still exist as one lot until the plat is actually filed. If it is filed and the project falls through, it could be replplatted back to one lot. >> And how would that process work? Could we initiate it or would the the owner have to come back to us to initiate it? >> Yeah, I guess they would have a couple of options. if they were to replplat it, um that would come back through the planning commission and council. They could also simply combine the parcels and that's just a form that's filled out, the city signs off on it, but it's an administrative approval that would just combine those three lots together. Then the county that's filed at the county and it's becomes um one lot again. Could we create a provision within this that the subdivision is only valid for this PUD that's been proposed? >> That would probably be an amendment to the development contract. Not sure how that >> Yeah, they they exist separately. So once the plat is approved that can be recorded in county records and I I don't think you can tie it together but as a practical matter if resoning would be required because if the project doesn't go ahead as director Teague mentioned the PUB only allows this project to be built on this parcel. So resoning would be required and as part of that process presumably they would want to replplat as well because whatever different project they would have in mind would probably require different lots unless they're able if they're able to divide to design a new project on the existing plat. they might just request resoning, you know, >> but either way, we would still be the approvers of that and so we could make that decision at that time. >> Regarding the resoning, yes. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Any other questions, concerns, comments? We got [clears throat] a motion and a second uh to approve resolution 2025-107 approving a subdivision preliminary and final plat for 7235 France Avenue South. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion of stated say I. >> I opposed >> carried. >> All right. Uh we are at the uh end of the almost at the end of the meeting. turn now to our um city manager for his comments. >> Thank you, your honor. I have just two tonight. Uh, one is just to uh talk a little bit about the special town hall meeting uh we've got scheduled for uh January 6th at 6 PM in in these council chambers to discuss uh gun safety, gun violence ordinance and and what the um to provide the community an outlet to come in and and have some discussion with you in a public hearing format. It'll be the only thing we have on the agenda that night and um we're looking forward to it. I'm going to share some uh some information with you about what might be in that ordinance um uh early next week. Um second is just to let you know and I think I've I've shared this with you all that our HR director Kelly Cirten is uh leaving employment with us. Uh she's going to be joining the city of of um >> Spring Hill Spring Hill, Tennessee. uh where she and her husband have been ready to relocate to and we're going to miss her. Uh she's somebody that you don't have a lot of contact with as our HR director. We have a lot of contact with her. Ari and I do. Um but we're going to miss her and her influence uh here in our organization. Thanks. >> Thank you. Member Richer. Um, I just want to give a shout out to the Arts and Culture Commission and their work on the wraps um around the utility boxes and it's really been fun driving around and seeing the new ones that are up. So, it's nice work. Thank you, >> Amber Jackson. >> So, I am informed we have four new state champions from Edina uh high school. We have lacrosse, girls soccer, girls swimming. as a former swimmer, I want to say yes. Good job, girls. And uh, of course, the football team and um, in a historic win, first time ever um, the unified Edina High School has won a state championship in football. >> 50 years, I think. >> Yeah. Yeah. And >> and Scott Hos was a former city council member, was the quarterback of that team. >> Oh my gosh. Oh, that's great. And um I worked for a as a consultant for a governmental unit that had very bad um public or uh HR human relations. It was very cluji involved uh election judges not getting paid. And so I want to say thank you to Kelly Curtain. She makes it seamless and I just I really have very high respect for her and and the smoothness with which um human relations are done in Edina. So, thank you. >> Y and to that point, uh I think Jen Garski is working with the school district to start to get the champions in here. >> Good. >> So, we can fet them a little bit with all of us getting a photo with them. So, uh Council Member Pierce, >> nothing from member, >> I just have one topic. Um, and I I guess I'm just going to plant the seed because I don't know how to answer it and I would love some kind of help from Scott Neil and and our police department in kind of how to answer a specific resident. Um, but we've gotten I would say more questions about um ICE enforcement um specifically regarding kind of current events. And I know that we've discussed this as a council and we had um the chief kind of speak to the fact that we don't um participate in federal kind of immigr immigration enforcement. So we don't enforce those laws. We don't request immigration status during you know um routine interactions. Uh but we're also being asked from people in our community like what should they do if they see something? And so I just I'm kind of asking for us as a city to have more of a plan and something that is more documented so that we can um share that with members of the community um and then just speak to that. So I feel empowered to speak to it a little bit more too. >> Yes, thank you. Um yet we are working on that as we speak. Um, and Miss Benerat has some has some of the information and she's beginning to reformat it into a way that we can share with with you. We've gotten information from our police and from our city attorney about uh what our what would we do and and with some some kind of reliable hypotheticals, but but also we know that people are interested in knowing what we will do as well. So, we want to share that with you. We're pretty close to having it ready and we will get it out to you as soon as we can. >> Thank you. Yeah, you caused me to think of something. I went last night over to um Rice Presbyterian and spoke to some cub scouts who were interested in government. Uh but one of the parents I met over there was somebody who had moved to Adana two years ago from Atlanta. It was with Homeland Security >> and um I talked to that person. He's a supervisor. we talk to them about, you know, coming to visit with elected officials or maybe even come to a city council meeting and explain what the work is that they're doing at Homeland Security to the extent they can talk about it. So, uh, thought about that in the in context of the regional council mayors as well. So, I'll I'll work with manager Neil on that. Maybe we can um get them to come, you know, as part of a special presentation and tell us the kind of work they're doing. Uh, I think we've got uh we've got a MLC meeting tomorrow and uh I think you know all kinds of other things coming up online. So that's about it for me. I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving. We did. Um it was a it's a nice one of the best holidays of the year I would say. Um kind of like it more than Christmas. It's just so peaceful and uh prolonged. It feels like it's longer than it really is. Um, thanks for all your good work tonight, all of you. And um, anything further? >> Okay. Is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. I second. >> A motion from member Jackson, second from member Agnu to adjourn the meeting of the city council this Tuesday, December 2nd, 2025 at 10:18 p.m. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adjournment say I. I. I. Opposed. Carried. We stand adjourned.