[0:50] well good morning everybody it is 7:32 a.m and we are going to [0:56] um call to order the meeting of the Dina Housing and Redevelopment Authority on this Thursday April 24th [1:03] 2025 uh we are handling these meetings in a virtual sort of manner uh there are [1:08] no public hearing matters this morning and um just reports and recommendations [1:14] portion of the uh the agenda nonetheless uh we are available for community comment so if anybody's listening in [1:20] online and has a concern they want to express to the HR or if there's somebody in the audience who wishes to address a [1:28] concern they have with the H we'll uh certainly take those comments [1:33] and uh having called the meeting to order I'm going to ask that uh Ari Lenser acting executive director call [1:38] the role commissioner Risser here commissioner Jackson here commissioner Pierce here commissioner Agnu here chair [1:46] Havlin here uh next is the pledge of allegiance [1:52] pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation [1:59] under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank [2:06] you we've got a form of meeting agenda it's been published both to the HR members and the general public is there [2:13] anyone on the HR or from a staff level that wishes to modify the agenda in any form or fashion all right is there a [2:20] motion to adopt the meeting agenda as published so moved second commissioner Jackson moves commissioner [2:25] Agnu seconds the adoption of the meeting agenda for this Thursday April 24th 2025 meeting of the H any further discussion [2:33] all those in favor of adoption of the meeting agenda say I i i opposed carried meeting agenda is adopted uh next we are [2:41] at community comment we'll have the um back room folks put up the phone numbers [2:46] for calling in if anybody has anything they want to address with the H those [2:53] numbers are now on the screen and then we'll turn to anybody in our audience who wishes to address the H on a matter of concern to [2:59] them okay um nobody in the audience coming forward and not hearing anything [3:05] i'm going to turn now Britney and see if we have anybody online [3:10] mr chair we do not currently have anyone online but due to the the delay in the broadcast I do recommend that we wait [3:16] one minute before proceeding all right [3:54] all [4:16] right it's been one minute and we still don't have any callers so I think it's safe to proceed okay let's proceed on [4:21] the next uh uh part of our process is generally that we have our uh acting [4:27] executive director or executive director address any issues uh raised by residents at a prior meeting do we have [4:34] anything to address there from a community comment standpoint miss Lens we had no comment at the last meeting [4:39] all right thank you uh moving on then to the uh consent agenda there's only one [4:44] thing on the consent agenda that's the minutes and we had a minutes uh suggested for publication we also had [4:52] member Risser make some modifications to those or proposed modifications to those minutes and I think we probably better [4:58] have a quick discussion about uh whether we want to adopt the uh minutes as suggested by staff prepared by staff or [5:06] whether we want to modify them in some form or fashion either fully as suggested uh by member Risser or some [5:13] modification thereof there's also a typographical error uh on page two that [5:19] we need to fix regardless and that was the increase in the loan period from [5:24] seven period 7 years to 15 years for the chamber repayment of the spark loan um [5:31] thoughts from [5:36] colleagues commissioner you had raised the issue of um Jackson had raised the issue of you know there's a quote [5:43] proposed quote in here from Commissioner Risser we don't usually quote people either on the council level or the or [5:49] the or the H level in the minutes correct so I'm fine with the changes in the first paragraph and the and the typo [5:57] um but the other changes I think you know are just there are just more detail that um can [6:02] be seen on the tape um and I just would say I recommend the changes to the first [6:08] paragraph and the typo and and and not the others [6:14] member Commissioner Richer I would like to note that we did talk about including [6:21] quotes from individual council members and commissioners uh back at a work [6:26] session and we agreed that we would use the style of taking minutes that [6:32] Minnetonka uses and in that style elected and appointed officials are [6:38] directly quoted and then even though it was agreed at that meeting that we might start using that style right away that [6:45] never actually happened and so because the written minutes according to the [6:52] state auditor are the official record I think that is something to keep in mind [6:58] and I know in Dina were saying no it's the video but I I do have concerns that [7:06] this is the way we're moving forward um yeah I don't recall us saying we were [7:13] going to adopt the Minnotonka method but um I'd want to have I'd want to have a refresher from staff on that I think um [7:21] Commissioner Jackson well and a work session is a work session we don't make decisions there that um are official and [7:29] I don't remember us adopting that but we certainly wouldn't have adopted a change in policy at a work [7:35] session other thoughts from other commissioners about modification of the proposed [7:41] minutes for the meeting of April 10 2025 [7:48] um I my question I guess is um how do we [7:53] resolve it today is this something we need to take out and discuss again [8:02] or at some point in time we'd have to discuss it you know so I mean if we if [8:07] we adopted member Jackson's or Commissioner Jackson's idea of eliminating everything except the [8:14] corrections in paragraph 7A the first paragraph of 7A uh and corrected the [8:20] typo that's going to come back to us anyway or we could we could make that change right now and then adopt those [8:26] minutes what about um or if we wanted to adopt member Risser's [8:32] or Commissioner Risser's notions or just the original minutes as proposed by [8:37] staff any of these additional uh edits or suggested changes yeah I I guess I [8:43] don't have an issue with adding the the more clarity [8:52] um on the page two at the top is that a quote as well is that from Miss [9:02] Loberg apparently and so I I my concern on [9:10] um the quotes being in there i I I would want to validate or not validate or [9:17] confirm with Miss Loberg that she's comfortable with that that is what she [9:22] said i know we're saying it's on the tape but I still think if we're going to [9:28] put it in there I want to make sure um it's one thing to have my quotes in [9:34] there and if it if they were my quotes I actually would read read through them [9:40] and validate yep that is what I said and it is what I meant um and so I think I [9:46] would would want to give the same courtesy to anyone else that we're [9:52] referring to in here um which I think is why we're originally said we don't want [9:59] to put quotes in there that's one of the reasons um and then the only other comment I have on [10:06] quotes i don't this is fairly benign to me and so [10:12] I am thinking more future i don't if there's something that is more [10:18] contentious or controversial like I wouldn't want there to only be quotes in here from one [10:26] council member right i'd want everybody's opinions um um expressed if [10:31] we're going to do quotes um and I haven't gone back to listen to the tape to see if there's something I would want [10:37] to have quoted either um and so the reason I asked the question we could I think for this we [10:44] could probably figure out a way to move forward with it that makes sense but I think this will come up again and so we [10:52] have to figure out um how we can um bring it to a resolution and move on [11:01] thank you for that Commissioner commissioner Ago [11:07] I also want us to like finalize what our decision and our process is going to be um it's [11:15] unfortunate that we don't have um manager Neil here because I feel like he was in some of those meetings and might [11:20] be able to um specify if there were any policy updates but I I do tend to concur [11:26] like I would have expected that to come to a council meeting if we were going to be really changing things more broadly [11:33] um I was absent from this particular meeting so I'm going to kind of probably abstain from this particular [11:41] um minutes approval if we proceed with it today but I do think um I agree with [11:47] Commissioner Pierce of we need to make a decision on how we're going to do it how it's going to change and that should be [11:53] reflected in everything that we do moving forward [11:59] mr perhaps for today we table the minutes i would like to say the original minutes [12:05] there were quotes um from Shelley Loberg and one said we are not able to she was [12:11] quoted as saying we are not able to use lodging tax funding for the repayment of the loan but when you go back and you [12:17] listen to it it's we are not able to directly use lodging tax funding and so I think that's a significant [12:25] um detail there but for the purposes of this meeting it sounds like we really don't [12:31] uh why don't we table this and come back to it uh at a future meeting these [12:41] minutes it seems to me if we table the minutes it just get back to the we just come back full circle to the same [12:46] conversation so it's fresh in our minds now i I like member Jack come commissioner Jackson's idea of the [12:54] changes in the first proposed changes in the first paragraph of 7A are factual [13:00] um when we start getting into quoting anybody whether it's a commissioner a city council member or somebody who [13:07] testified regarding a matter I think that's a slippery slope and u so that and then the the typographical [13:15] error is something that we needed to fix anyway so for getting some minutes approved [13:23] uh at least theory I would adopt and join in member commissioner Jackson's [13:28] idea of adopting the changes in paragraph one and and nothing else other [13:34] than making the typographical correction in the third paragraph full paragraph or I guess it's the second full paragraph [13:41] of page two increases the period of time from seven years to 15 years not 25 [13:48] years so people have 100 people's thoughts on that commissioner I would [13:56] also like to see the inclusion of the word directly in that first line on page [14:02] two um I would still not include the quotes because I think it was not meant to be necessarily a direct quote um but [14:10] I do think that from what I understand of the conversation having the phrase [14:15] directly is meaningful in that context [14:21] okay so I'll make that motion [14:27] the last one change at the very end you wanted to note on the number of people that occupy the board right that seemed [14:34] like that would make sense i no [14:40] Oh go ahead um Mr chair and me uh Commissioner [14:47] Pierce to me it's really not relevant to what we were talking about um it's it's [14:52] an interesting fact and when we're talking about um Explore Dina that'd be a good issue to raise but um it's on the [15:00] tape it's there but I don't think it's relevant to the discussion about the Spark loan okay [15:07] thank you commissioner Jackson would you care to make a motion yes so I move that [15:12] we approve the minutes of the April 10th um HA meeting with um change with Well [15:20] not first i move that we amend the minutes to include the suggested [15:26] language in the first paragraph of section 7A and the changing the typo and [15:33] adding directly um to the comment of Shelley Loberg um so it says are not [15:41] able to directly use lodging tax funding um first line of page two the first line [15:47] of page two in the in the proposed minutes except no other changes and accept no other changes [15:53] there's second to that motion commissioner Pierce seconds that motion as stated further discussion [16:01] commissioner Risser um I I um think it is really important to note that there [16:07] are only there's only one member of this 12 board um because this board [16:13] represents not just the chamber but it also is the explory dino board and so [16:19] that's why I think it was relevant to the discussion i think it's actually very key so but I'm just one vote [16:30] all right other comments we've got a motion and a second with respect to approval of amended minutes as [16:36] recommended or moved by Commissioner Jackson seconded by Commissioner Pierce any further discussion all those in [16:43] favor of adopting the uh minutes in an amended form as suggested by Commissioner Jackson and seconded by [16:49] Commissioner Pierce uh say I I I opposed i carried and I abstain then we have one [16:58] abstension yeah we got three in favor one against one [17:05] abstension all right very good uh thank you now we're going to move on in the [17:13] agenda to that was the only thing on the consent agenda incidentally so that's the only matter we have to address there [17:18] uh reports and recommendations portion of the agenda and this is a matter that we weren't able to hear earlier at one [17:24] of our prior meetings and now we have uh our housing uh affordable housing development manager Stephanie Hawinson [17:30] with us this morning to give us a affordable housing compliance report update welcome Miss Hawinson [17:44] yes so good morning the report that was in your packet was the carryover from [17:50] March 27th and as you can see even within this report um things constantly [17:56] involved in the world of compliance from December to March and the March to April [18:01] and from the time of drafting the presentation to today so um and I think [18:08] that is really indicative about the world of compliance it's not a snapshot [18:14] in time uh residents don't all move in on the same day they don't all renew their leases on the same day and all the [18:22] apartments and property managers don't all come online at the same time so it [18:27] is a live evolving changing [18:36] phenomenon to ground us why do we even do this so the affordable house to [18:42] affordable housing and the affordable housing policy were created to provide housing in Edina that is affordable to [18:49] low and moderate income households so it's both on the rent side that the [18:54] rents are affordable and it's serving the households that need the affordable apartments so it's a two-pronged thing [19:04] reason for compliance it's to confirm and verify that the developments were to [19:10] have affordable housing units have them and the units are serving the intended [19:16] tenants and that they are adhering to our policy so we go and we meet with all [19:23] the property managers to confirm and verify i don't have the capacity to do [19:28] that the knowledge the skills the time so we hire a third-party consultant we [19:35] have hired um affordable housing connections that has a depth and breadth of experience in doing this compliance [19:41] work they work in multiple cities they work with multiple different types of funding sources they that that's kind of [19:48] what they do so we brought them on a few years back to do our compliance reviews [19:56] so we have developments that have a variety of different rules and a lot of [20:01] different um regulations on what it means to be affordable and what our [20:08] ability is to um enforce it so I just wanted to give a [20:15] high level so Aurora Arya and Millennium were all approved and came into being [20:23] prior to even having a policy the policy was being thought of we were [20:29] contemplating it took a long time to get it into being it was kind of a big step for the city took years to really [20:36] formulate what was wanted and so and as these projects were coming forward they [20:41] were being negotiated and they agreed yeah okay we'll include affordable units [20:49] but how it was a learning process and between a handshake yeah we're going to [20:54] include them to what that really meant so with these three projects how they [21:01] the control mechanism with Aurora it was basically a resolution a line in the resolution saying that there will be 10 [21:06] units that are affordable didn't define what affordable meant didn't define who affordable was going to be for just they [21:14] were going to be affordable open-ended with Arya it was a SIPA and the SIPA is [21:20] you know the land use approval but once a building is built and occupied the [21:25] SIPA essentially you know it talks a lot about how road closure is going to be what's going to be built but once it's [21:33] built the SIPA really doesn't have any teeth you know it says that there's supposed to be a site improvement plan [21:40] agreement yeah i'm sorry sure could you define [21:46] what a SIPA is please uh site improvement plan agreement so it's the site plan it's the agreement for the [21:53] site plan um in the Millennium 2 there was initially only the the site plan [22:00] approval that said that there needed to be affordable units nothing after the building was built other than they it [22:07] was included in the site plan approval um however they had a change of [22:12] ownership and when they changed ownership we did record a declaration we tightened it up as and they were willing [22:18] they were willing to allow us to tighten up and put a declaration on saying that these are going to be affordable into [22:24] the future so the developments that were approved post policy were Avidor Nolan [22:31] Maine the Laurian and Maison Green and remember this is 2023's compliance report other projects [22:38] have come online we have the Finch we have Eddie we have [22:45] um the FRED doesn't have any affordable units but those those two at any rate they came online post 2023 so they're [22:52] not included in the 2023 compliance report these ones as you can see through [22:58] time we've become more sophisticated in how we're going to control affordability [23:03] we define it what does it mean who is it supposed to serve and that is now in the [23:09] redevelopment agreement where it wasn't previously and we're recording declarations of restricted covenants on [23:15] them so we have more mechanisms that we can use when working with the property management and the owners to control the [23:24] affordability in these units further with the newer units because the economy [23:29] has changed interest rates have changed construction costs have changed there [23:34] has been an increasing call for um gap financing for financial assistance to [23:40] make these projects have the affordable units and get built and with a TIFF [23:45] agreement since there's two payments every year we can look at the compliance level and hold the TIFF payment or not [23:54] based on the compliance so we have a mechanism by which we can control some [24:00] of that compliance and and enforce them and encourage [24:05] them so role of affordable housing connections is to meet with the property [24:11] managers initially we thought this was going to be an initial training they would know what to do it would be done [24:18] turnover in the property management field is pretty rapid they're they train [24:23] someone they get them all on board and then they leave and then they have to train new people in and so sometimes the [24:30] old property managers aren't great of communicating everything to the new property managers and so there has been [24:36] this ongoing training they answer questions throughout the year property ma the emails I get that I'm copied on [24:43] with our compliance officer there's lots and they so there's a lot of back and forth on what does it mean what do I [24:49] need to collect how do I verify what do I look at what can I include in rent um [24:55] they review all the tenant files and they consult regularly with staff you know there's nuances there's little [25:01] tweaks that are not universal across projects and so we [25:06] communicate and so this frequent turnover has provided complications [25:12] we're we think everything's set with a building they have a new property manager a new tenant moves in in that [25:18] time that tenant not all the information's collected so it's been this really ongoing process to get them [25:24] all in compliance there's documents it's government we want to make sure there's [25:30] compliance we're not going to just trust people say that they require an affordable unit we collect [25:37] paperwork and in order to be fully compliant if it's a 2023 compliance we [25:43] want to look at their 2023 social security award letter not their 2024 not [25:49] their 2022 and so making sure everyone saves tenants save all their paperwork is a [25:57] little bit of a challenge too but it's so they need all these forms need to be [26:02] included in order to be fully [26:08] compliant all right so in December I reported that [26:14] uh Aurora and Nolan Mains were the only ones that were fully compliant that means 100% of their units had every [26:20] piece of paperwork in and on 100% of the units we looked at their rent the [26:27] utilities any excess fees and made sure that they were within that cap their [26:32] open deficiencies with Avdor Millennium and the Laurent and Arya and Maison [26:37] Green were non-compliant open deficiencies mean maybe 16 out of 18 [26:43] units were in compliance but two were not it may mean that on some of them in the lease there was an administrative [26:49] fee that bumped them above and we needed to find out what that administrative fee and have confirmation that if a refund [26:56] needed to go back to a tenant that that refund was made if it had not been made at the time the report was written it [27:02] was an open deficiency so it was you know there were a lot of things caused [27:07] these open deficiencies non-compliant meant that there was something more fundamental going on with making them so [27:13] they're non-compliant by end of last week and [27:19] yeah not even including yesterday um compliance so this is between reports [27:26] even between your written report and today now in compliant is Aurora Nolan [27:31] Maine the Laurent Millennium and Maison green so Maison green and the Laurent [27:37] move from open to deficiencies to complant they are now fully [27:42] compliant avidor is sufficient but imperfect they had someone come up from Chicago to really try to help there's [27:49] some forms that didn't have a signature on them i mean so they're really essentially compliant they're just [27:54] tweaks that need to be made we don't want to put them in the compliant because there are something they need to [28:00] work on as a building to make sure they have systems in place so it's not as [28:05] problem that that they train their subsequent property managers so we don't have issues like we had in the past so [28:12] we're not putting them in the compliant column and Arya I've talked about Arya [28:17] for three or four years now they're not going to be compliant they're not they are compliant with the documents that we [28:24] had in place at the time they were approved but subsequent HA boards have [28:30] said that to be compliant the rent cap has to include all the costs that are [28:36] required to live in that building so if rent is at the rent cap but they also have to pay utilities on top of rent [28:42] it's really not affordable to a person at the affordable income they said "You [28:48] didn't require that of us when we closed this deal we're not going to do that." [28:54] So I can't we can't in good faith say this an affordable building because it's [28:59] not really so they are compliant with the rules [29:04] that they had at the time they are not compliant with what we expect of them so I'm going to take them off the list [29:10] because it creates this non-compliance that will be forever more so this is the last time you're going to see Arya we're [29:17] going to still check in with them every year just to let them know that we're here to make sure that the rents don't [29:22] go up beyond the level but other than that we know that they're not going to be compliant and three years ago I think it [29:31] was said the only form of recourse was the bully pulpit so I had said that verbally but that was something that was [29:37] said to me um by the H at the time that that was our form of recourse so I have [29:44] reasons for deficiencies that I've talked and I have a picture of a lot of paperwork because I want to emphasize [29:49] that there is a lot of paperwork involved with become with these files so some were missing source [29:56] documentation on income they may have had their 2024 social security letter but they didn't have their 2023 award [30:03] letter if they were compliant you know we know from personal experience with [30:09] parents that social security went up a little bit but not a ton if so if the [30:15] 2024 levels would make them so they're affordable for 2023 it's very likely [30:21] that the 2023 letter would also um there's some lack of clarity with some [30:27] of the property managers on utilities fa paid by tenants some had administrative [30:32] fees that bumped them over we've talked with them they're refunding the tenants it bumped them over so there there are [30:38] variety of reasons for deficiencies i do want to emphasize that no property manager or owner were blatantly [30:46] disregarding the rules they weren't saying fine we're not going to do it they all were willingly working with us [30:54] and wanting to be in compliance they just didn't know everything that was [30:59] required of them so recourse for non-compliance and I put [31:04] the scale here because previously in early years the philosophy was we want [31:10] to work with them the objective is to provide affordable apartments to people that need them so that's work with every [31:16] property manager to get to that goal that's work with them and continue working with them to make sure that that [31:22] is our ultimate objective we could become more punitive we could say these [31:27] are the rules you're not following them and we're gonna somehow ding you i think you know in a previous conversation with [31:34] city attorney there's limits of what we how we can ding them with regards to [31:40] fines i mean there are laws that restrict the level of punitive [31:46] um actions but I think previously the objective was to really try to make [31:51] these affordable and to continue working collaboratively [31:56] um but in that spirit still we have created the program guide that have [32:02] instructions of what these what defining affordability defining rent we have [32:08] strengthen our redevelopment agreements they used to be five pages now they're 30 you know we have huge second sections [32:15] on affordable housing and what that means we now have um recorded declarations of restricted covenants we [32:21] even have them when they don't have money if they get a PUD we also record even if there's no TIFF and that's what [32:28] we did with the EDI we record and we so we've added those steps to make sure [32:33] there's affordability that we did not have future considerations we could [32:39] theoretically tie this into a rental licensing you know give a cut off date [32:44] you're not in compliance but again compliance is retroactive we're doing [32:50] 2023 right now it's 2025 so if they're not compliant in 2023 do we cut off their rental license in 2025 when they [32:57] could be compliant in 2024 so I mean I think there are issues with tying it to the right license and we are working [33:04] with affordable housing connections they're working with other cities on creating an online course it's super [33:10] timeconuming so having this online reference that will have chapters and they can like what documents do I need [33:16] how do I get this document what do I need signatures on and having an online [33:22] course you know I want to make a comment because I've heard it talked about why [33:28] do we this policy is not working what this policy is um not as strong as it [33:35] could be it's live document it's evolving but I do want to again highlight that the difference in 10 [33:43] years prior to the policy being passed and the 10 years after the policy was passed so these are units that were [33:51] delivered before and after the policy the black bar is after the policy the [33:57] green bar is before the policy clearly the policy has had an impact has it been [34:04] perfect is it ideal probably not can it be tweaked yes every year it can be [34:10] tweaked this is what was approved now the numbers are far greater in the [34:16] approved but as we know projects have not moved forward because of financing [34:21] because of um other issues so there are more projects that were approved that had affordable units that are actually [34:27] been delivered because of things outside the city's control also the buyin funds [34:34] I want to highlight too how buyin funds have helped Dina residents we have 54 [34:40] households that have benefited from our home rehab program we have 19 households [34:46] that have benefited from our affordable ownership preservation program in [34:51] partnership with Homes Within Reach and Habitat and that's still going these numbers are growing we have 12 [34:59] households that have benefited from the first generation grant to the Adina Housing Foundation from the um [35:06] HA we have um through the use of buyin 10 [35:12] households that have benefited multif family um buyin funds were typically not [35:18] used to do this but in one project they were we have 29 households that [35:23] benefited from Noah preservation using buyin funds and we bought one house that [35:28] was in disarray and a nuisance to the city so the buyin funds have helped [35:35] numerous Edina households and that's the end of my [35:40] presentation and I'm here for questions and Maruka is here as well she's our compliance officer she This has become [35:46] although I don't know how many cities you work with and how many files you work with this has become a part-time at least a half-time job for her working on [35:53] these files yeah thanks for that thorough presentation it was good to get that update uh commissioners [35:59] commissioner thank you so much for the overview and [36:04] walking us through it um I do think that this is working right um I really think [36:10] that you are making a positive impact and that as a city we are making a positive impact and helping to progress [36:17] this as an important cause within our city um I also want to say like great [36:22] work on moving the needle i understand that there were new mechanisms that were added that gave us a little bit more teeth gave us more progress but even [36:30] just seeing the December to the April like that's that's meaningful and that's really really great so thank you for the [36:36] work on that for both of you um I do want to make sure that Arya doesn't get [36:42] lost because it it sounds like there still are components that they are required to do even though the language [36:50] of that contract is different than what we uh both align to today as well as [36:56] measure today so I don't know if there is some way that we as a council can [37:02] continue to still get that visibility even if it's a different line item at the bottom or it continues to have the asterisk i think that that would be [37:08] helpful um because they do have requirements and I want to continue to make sure we have that pulse on that [37:14] those requirements are being met um but otherwise this is really great progress to see and I know there will be [37:20] continued conversation right I know that there are still improvements that we want to make uh but I don't have the [37:25] expectation that we get it right out of the gate right i think that that's what's really important as we look at [37:31] the data and we see where do we not have as much ability to influence this or [37:37] where did we potentially have gaps and over the years now we've been closing those gaps and I think that that's just [37:42] really important really um really great to call out and so let's keep thinking [37:48] about how can we close those gaps I think education and all that that's going to be really important too so I [37:54] love seeing potentially an online module or whatever that might look like um but I'm seeing a lot of really great [38:00] progress in the right direction so thank you commissioner rejection yes so I want to [38:06] thank you too um and this is a great and with a AHC affordable housing connection so [38:12] thank you both for for working so hard on this um this was a great presentation extremely a lot of information um and I [38:21] want to the big picture is we want the policy to encourage the creation of affordable units so that we can serve [38:27] families who need housing um with a affordability component to it so I think [38:34] what we've been doing is working and I wouldn't want to change it to be more punitive because you get I I think you [38:41] attract more with honey than you do with stick um and and I think that's also how [38:47] we learned so to Commissioner Agnu's point of continuous improvement if we have friendly relationships with people [38:53] they will tell us can we change this to this that would work better so I I really like the collaborative um and [39:00] encouraging um tact that we take and one thing that popped out at me is and I'm [39:05] I'm I think excited to see that there's going to be an online training i think that will be useful for people i was in [39:11] a meeting earlier this week where we were talking about some training guide that was 40 pages and I'm like no one's [39:16] going to read 40 pages and I know this is complicated so this is the example um [39:22] but you know can we have a summary page so when we're looking at the program guide and the training uh I want to make [39:28] sure that we um stick to our plain English u model so that everything is you sit down I've never done this before [39:35] I can understand what's there and then also just always an eye to readability and usability ility um and I know that [39:42] you would do that anyways but I it's a value that I want to promote so thank you Risser excuse me Commissioner Russer [39:50] um thank you and it's good to see that we're compliant and I really appreciated [39:56] your point that um this is an evolving phenomenon and so at this particular [40:01] point we have these units that are compliant and I think what would be really helpful for me and for the public [40:09] is to have a chart where it was indicated by complex how many months [40:17] they've been compliant how many years they've been compliant so we don't just get this little snapshot in time today [40:24] but we can look at it since the opening of Maison Green when did they start [40:29] coming into compliance if they slip out you know then they're no longer [40:35] compliant you know you're not adding time to it but I think the public really needs to be able to see that the other [40:41] thing is that when we talk about units we don't know anything about those units and I really appreciate member Jackson's [40:48] point or Commissioner Jackson's point you know we're trying to serve families but um you know thinking about the [40:56] project at 7200 u there's only two twobedrooms and I looked at the layouts it might be as [41:03] small as 1,17 square ft um we may have five units that are 543 square feet um [41:11] and so when we just see units that doesn't tell us much at all and I think [41:17] we really need to be able to see what kind of units are being provided at these loces what are their sizes what [41:24] are you know are they two-bedroom are they threebedroom are they all now I guess apparently El Cove i learned a new [41:30] term um is what is going in at 7200 so [41:35] just a little actually we do need more granularity on that and I think that [41:41] would be super helpful chair commissioners may I respond to that um so the compliance officer the [41:50] compliance makes sure that the development is adhering to the outline and the redevelopment agreement so they [41:58] they check on they look at the redevelopment agreement that's been approved and they make sure that you [42:05] know if it's 15 units if it's 12 units whatever so the the confirmation they do [42:12] look at whether or not the affordable units match the redevelopment agreement [42:17] but um the initial review of how many are onebedroom how many two-bedroom how many [42:24] are threebedroom how many are el cove is in the redevelopment agreement and is in the certificate of occupancy to make [42:31] sure that what has been created and the declaration is what is in fact what's [42:38] built um so some of that information is done [42:44] initially with a compliance office and we can definitely add that but a lot of that [42:50] happens in in a different format like defining which units are affordable [42:56] happen at the time of negotiating the redevelopment agreement um and not at the time of ongoing [43:06] compliance and what about I saw I I heard two questions in there one was um when did they come into compliance and I [43:13] heard you say that it's a little bit nuanced that that there may be some [43:19] confusion about what exactly has to be done and and it takes some back and forth between staff and and I'll use [43:24] Maison Green for an example uh until they're doing all the reporting that they're required to do and it seems to [43:32] me that if you just look at a sort of a barebones report of when they came into compliance it it it doesn't take into [43:40] account that nuance the back and forth that you had to engage in and so somebody who read reads a report like [43:46] that might think that well for that period of time they just were not in compliance and shame on them you know [43:51] when it was something it was a period of time that represented uh a span of time where you were trying [43:57] to work together to make sure that they knew what they were doing and were doing it properly and were were getting in compliance but nonetheless they they had [44:04] those affordable units in place and people were living in there so I I'd be [44:10] a little bit cautious about that suggestion yeah thank you chair um when I was listening to that it is [44:16] challenging because in an ideal world how it is designed to be every [44:22] July um affordable housing connections would get a box electronically or [44:27] physically of files that of all the affordable units for the previous year [44:33] but that's assuming that people aren't moving in and moving out during that year um and that's also assuming there's [44:41] no change in management but let's assume that there's no change in management people move in and out of apartments [44:46] throughout the year and so a new resident can move in March and a new [44:52] resident another new resident can move in in September and so in July or June [44:58] and are are all the documents in place for the resident that moved in in June for the July compliance review so there [45:05] there is there isn't having a line in the sand is really really really challenging um it is a process and it is [45:14] an ongoing annual process and so like ma's on green they're in compliance now [45:21] someone could move out someone could move in in June we look at the file in July they may have missed a document so [45:29] they need to scurry till August to get that document so do I all of a sudden say then that Maison Green is no longer [45:35] in compliance because this new tenant that moved in in June didn't sign all the necessary paperwork and I'm [45:42] reporting that that on that June date that that building is now no longer in compliance no because we're giving them [45:48] till August to get that paperwork and then maybe it takes you know there's hundreds of files that she's looking at [45:54] maybe she can't get to it till September so I I have um I'm challenged internally [46:02] thinking on the spot of how we would do a line in the sand yeah [46:09] understood uh Commissioner Pierce thanks Mr chair um so I I agree that we've made [46:15] progress but like we wouldn't run a business that way and so we we still [46:20] have accountabilities that are placed on these establishments [46:26] we have to find a way to make sure that we're holding them accountable to [46:31] whatever the standard was uh but we can't and we we can't operate in a way [46:39] where we're coming up with where we're accepting reasons upon reasons upon [46:44] reasons for not being compliant right that's just not healthy for us to do [46:50] that um and so I think as you continue your work we have to figure out a way [46:56] that we're going to be clear about what you're accountable for and based on [47:02] whatever standard right so I'm not even challenging that but we have to be clear about that and then we have to hold [47:08] establishments to those that accountability that's all I want to see us do and if we can do that and be clear [47:16] about nope this is the standard and here's why I think we'll be fine as we [47:22] go forward and it evolves i think we try to do that but thank you [47:28] yes i mean we we do train them and we tell them what is needed in the beginning file and we tell them what is [47:33] needed it just You're right i mean and that's the intent that is definitely the intent [47:40] your was next i think um I would hope and maybe this could be [47:46] more nuanced where it didn't have to be so rigid and overbearing but um it just [47:56] seems like and you wouldn't need to say you know you could have a chart somewhere where you had the type of [48:03] units the size of units and somebody moves out okay it turns yellow and then [48:08] it turns green again you know or something like that but a way to track where we are and how our investment you [48:15] know because we are putting millions of dollars into these affordable units in [48:20] multi-family buildings and so you know we can come up we can say well that's [48:26] not something that is negotiated at the time but we still need to be able to see what those units are and I think that [48:32] really helps us understand how are we moving toward um being a city where we [48:39] are affordable for families if that is the goal and so if what we're getting [48:45] are units that are primarily one-bedroom units that's something that needs to be [48:51] visualized in a table and so I just I think we can come up with a lot of reasons why it's really um challenging [48:59] but I do think that's a data point that needs to be visualized and needs to be very accessible especially you know for [49:06] the public and for us as we are making decisions about does it make sense to invest nearly $5 million in tiff um you [49:13] know and what are what is the data that supports how viable this affordable [49:19] housing investment is so I don't Anyhow thank you Commissioner Jackson yes thank [49:26] you Mr chair so what I'm thinking of uh is when uh Commissioner Pierce spoke I thought about um quality assurance in [49:33] manufacturing and um so as policy makers could we make a scale of compliance and [49:40] then have a point at which it becomes material um so if it's an immaterial non-compliance it's an immaterial non [49:48] that one paper wasn't signed so they're technically not compliant but they're within the scale of acceptability and [49:55] then there's a tipping point where it becomes material whether it's 20% non-compliance or 40% non-compliance [50:01] just I don't know if there's anything in the industry that has something like that but as policy makers then we have [50:07] this snapshot it looks bad three units you know three buildings are missing one [50:14] paper each but they're non-compliant right instead we can have a scale Is it [50:19] material no it's not material it when it reaches materiality then we pull funds right because clear clearly [50:26] non-compliant so that's an idea i don't know if it's in the industry out there but um but that would be as a policy [50:32] maker useful for me thank you yeah that's a good thought i was thinking as we were talking about some grace period [50:39] that you had you know here's our here's our list things that you have to do checklist and and [50:45] uh people sometimes get everything done on time and sometimes they don't and you've got a grace period in which you [50:51] get those things done and then to member or commissioner Pierce's point at some point in time you come out of compliance [50:56] but you know you can think about these ideas we've kind of advanced this morning on on the unit count you know [51:02] you've got them in the in the development agreement and I think that's a little bit tricky uh too because uh [51:10] developers are building what they think the market wants and what they can fill [51:16] and so they we're ending up in a situation where we're we're kind of adapting to [51:22] the market ourselves to create affordability so if if somebody's building a building full of studio [51:28] apartments or onebedrooms and studios or you know just a limited number of two bedrooms they're doing that for a reason [51:34] because they know what they can rent the quickest and uh and uh and get a full [51:39] rent roll so um knowing I guess maybe there's some value in knowing what we have in total [51:45] inventory uh one studios one bedrooms two bedrooms three bedrooms but there's a story [51:51] underneath all of that sort of raw data too that's important to be thinking about and and not make a not reach a [51:58] conclusion or jump to a conclusion we're not doing enough of a certain thing because we we couldn't do it anyway [52:04] because that's not what the market's delivering so anyway another cautionary note [52:10] chair commissioners um I noticed we have a dashboard now of our affordability um what we do not have on there is bedroom [52:16] count but I have seen I think St louis Park and Minnetonka both have on their dashboard number the bedroom mix and I [52:24] believe that is something that we could definitely add to our dashboard yeah okay remember commissioner versus point [52:31] yeah that would be fantastic and also adding square footage I think is really important to commissioner the chairs i'm [52:40] trying to get people's roles right today um point yes there will be buildings that will focus on smaller units and [52:46] then there will be buildings that will have more units and it would it would be very easy just to have you know an [52:52] asterisk and say like I know that there are two bedrooms in 7200 but just to to [53:00] say what the makeup or the kind of building it is like this is primarily [53:05] studio or something like that if it is all um like that I think it would be very easy to bring that data point um [53:14] forward and then finally this is just a little exclamation point i had a meeting uh early in the week with some folks at [53:21] um where you know the primary developers down at the Pentagon Park neighborhood they said the the Finch just opened and [53:28] you may know this the affordable units are full everything's filled up [53:33] immediately the the minute they opened all those filled including the I think the units on the first floor for the [53:40] folks with the young folks with disabilities remember they were going to dedicate a certain number of units to that they're all full so let's let's be [53:48] mindful of the most important thing is that we got people in those affordable units even if the reporting on them [53:54] isn't isn't always aligned so that's the most important thing that they got an affordable place to live i'm a little [54:00] bit concerned about the ARA you know we say they're out of compliance they argued for years that they're in legal [54:05] compliance and so to call them out as being non-compliant when they're probably legally compliant because we [54:12] didn't know enough then when we were just starting out because it was one of the first buildings built after we had a [54:17] policy that to say they're non-compliant with what we would like to see as [54:23] opposed to what was legally required is I I I think that's a little bit unfair to to them [54:30] i think parking was we assumed parking was going to be included too underground parking in addition to utilities and and [54:37] they say no this was a deal we struck and I will take direction from you a [54:42] previous board um wanted said that directed me to call them non-compliant [54:50] because the rents when you added all the extra costs made them not affordable but [54:56] that was the direction I was given at that time if the direction has changed [55:02] I will do what you want me to do yeah well I mean I mean the truth of it is they've got units in there that are they [55:09] they are renting it they they are think of are affordable they're more affordable than market rate but they're not affordable by definition correct [55:16] yeah so there's a there's a group of people in that rental class too that are taking advantage of that all right so [55:22] now we've got a hard stop at quarter two for one of our colleagues here so we got to keep moving as everybody's [55:28] comfortable thanks for that report all right and uh I don't know Bill what round we're on [55:36] here with uh public works in terms of RFPs but uh you've got the latest round of folks [55:43] that have come in by the deadline i think you didn't have that in the report but you're going to you're going to give [55:49] us a quick update today yes exactly um so this is regarding the uh property [55:57] that we own at 5146 Eden Avenue the city's old public works site um as a [56:03] recall we issued a request for proposal back in early March uh we talked about that for several months and kind of over [56:10] a year here um as we had hoped I would say that we were successful uh we [56:15] received 11 proposals from a wide variety of developers [56:21] i just wanted to go over um the range of the proposals there's a lot of [56:26] similarities they definitely read the RFP that we issued um we were hoping to get some creative responses and we did [56:33] every proposal is different um sometimes are apples and oranges different so um [56:39] I'll walk through these just a little bit um no action is necessary today but I also wanted to get your cur curiosity [56:47] going because in May we're planning on having uh uh a session to discuss each [56:53] of these and and then narrow the field and then eventually select one later [56:59] this summer so 11 different uh proposals [57:04] uh the similarities is that is that they're all submitted by experienced developers or teams of [57:11] developers um some are are submitted by for-profit businesses and some from [57:17] nonprofit businesses um some of the developers you'll [57:24] recognize they've done business in Adina for a long time others you'll recognize but they've not done business here [57:30] before but but elsewhere in the metro so we we have a really good mix all the proposals are responsive to our request [57:37] to focus on on lowrise and mid-rise and not high-rise so that was [57:43] um one thing to note one one challenge that we're going to have to um work with is the amount of [57:51] time it's going to take to implement any of these plans i know as as the city [57:57] council has had conversations about about budget raising revenue if we actually want to sell the [58:03] land for a reasonable price we'll need to be patient um because to actually [58:09] develop any of these plans could take from one year to three years depending on on the developer and the project that [58:16] you select so there's many different types of housing and commercial spaces that are [58:22] proposed in these 11 um options they include senior cooperatives town houses [58:30] both rental and ownership town homes row houses condominiums senior apartments [58:37] family apartments general purpose all ages apartments [58:43] um uh professional office space and commercial space like retail restaurant [58:50] events or general services and they're every combination of that you could imagine so [58:57] um uh regarding the housing um many of the proposals are responsive to our [59:03] request to include uh low to moderate income household units uh meeting the [59:10] definition our definition of a of affordable uh they also include moderate [59:15] income units that would meet our definition of what we're calling attainable and then there's also units [59:21] that would be uh targeted towards higher or very high income uh households at a market [59:27] rate so quite a variety regarding the land prices we asked each of the uh uh [59:34] folks to submit their estimate of land purchase price based on their specific [59:40] deal um again all subject to negotiation but there's quite a range uh uh on the [59:48] low end the proposal uh was still over a million dollars for the land and on the [59:54] high end there's proposals nearly $6 million in land pricing as you would [1:00:01] imagine the pro proposals that are lower density have a lower land price the ones [1:00:06] that are higher density higher income have the higher price so we'll have to choose what's the priority [1:00:13] there regarding financing of each of the proposals some are privately financed [1:00:19] some could only move forward with TIFF some could only move forward with funding from the US um HUD um some would [1:00:28] require uh uh tax credit grants from Minnesota Housing so the again a wide [1:00:33] variety of funding sources um so if that isn't confusing enough um [1:00:41] what we're going to try to do in the next couple weeks is take all the different uh proposals and uh boil it [1:00:48] boil them down i'm going to try to get it with Stephanie's help to two pages [1:00:54] just the highlights so that it can be more of an apples to apples comparison when you sit down [1:00:59] uh and so just to let you know as we start to make this evaluation we'll be looking at the the responsiveness to our [1:01:06] RFP what you said your preferences are for the site we'll look at the proposed purchase price we'll also look at the [1:01:13] city's budget values and budget pillars um the stewardship the equity the [1:01:19] sustainability sustainability all those factors I think should be part of this of this evaluation [1:01:26] so at the May 15th HR meeting our intention is to start that as an open [1:01:31] meeting but then quickly go into a close session to discuss real estate uh the [1:01:37] potential sale of real estate is one of those few exceptions where we can meet in close session it's to this group's [1:01:43] advantage to do that in close session so we don't give away our purchase our our [1:01:49] our price right we want to hold that close to our vest um because ultimately [1:01:54] we want to uh sell the land to derive the highest value for the community and the best project so in order to have the [1:02:02] discussion we'll have that in a closed session we're recommending that uh uh [1:02:07] the next step would be to invite a few of the of the developers to come in and [1:02:12] make a pitch to you explain what their proposal is uh and really feel it out a [1:02:18] little bit better um uh likely we'd invite three four people uh to uh to [1:02:24] make their pitch to us again this group would then discuss what you heard and then come back at a future meeting most [1:02:31] likely in late June and make your selection and formally announce uh which [1:02:37] development team or developer you'd like to work with and then get the contract running and get them get them working on [1:02:43] their entitlements and all the financing and all those types of things so um that's that's a forecast of what to [1:02:50] expect but I'm very pleased with the responses um uh I was I was hoping to [1:02:56] get 10 to 15 11's right in the spot uh and always remember just like selling [1:03:01] your house or selling your used car you just need one you just need one good one [1:03:07] so we've got 11 good options you can decide which are the better options for for this community [1:03:13] um but uh we look forward to talking about that more in May uh and I'll strive we normally issue the packets [1:03:20] just you know a few days ahead of the meeting we'll try to get this information to you well in advance so [1:03:26] that you've got time to peruse it uh at your leisure so um and that that's my [1:03:32] update for good great update yeah questions or [1:03:37] I just I just I just thought it was funny you said there were 11 and we had [1:03:42] 10 different types in here so there might be two [1:03:48] but this is good work that's a good update thanks one more thing on the agenda this [1:03:55] morning u I think we're going to make it out of here by the drop dead date uh and [1:04:00] um that is report out from Ari on the preparation for a future discussion about tax increment financing and maybe [1:04:07] Bill's going to handle that too i don't know yes I'll I'll take this one as well so um again briefly but wanted to set [1:04:14] the stage for another future meeting uh last year as we were uh uh having [1:04:20] conversation conversations about providing uh financing using tax increment uh for various projects you [1:04:28] all had a lot of questions about is this the best way to do it is there a better process is there a different process um [1:04:34] so we'd like to schedule a work session most likely in late May or June kind of see where it lands with the schedule um [1:04:41] but as we prepare for that I want to make sure that we're responsive to some of your uh most pressing requests so [1:04:49] what I heard you ask last year were four key things that I'll plan to address uh [1:04:54] and that is whether or not our city policies are driving the need for tiff more frequently um whether there is a [1:05:02] preferred order or timing when this board considers the use of [1:05:08] tiff um there was an inquiry about whether tiff should be used only for [1:05:14] specific types of costs for one of the projects I remember some voices said we [1:05:19] should definitely use it for affordability some people said we should definitely use it for parking others said we should never use it for parking [1:05:26] um we can have that conversation uh and then finally the last question I heard [1:05:31] was the strategy of using tiff right now we are more performanceoriented outcome [1:05:38] oriented uh it is possible to shift that into more of a programmatic format where [1:05:44] if they meet the meet the require requirements of the program they get the funding it could be more it could be [1:05:50] easier to implement um harder to develop the program that actually meets our needs um but those [1:05:57] are the four topics that I've heard so far and I just request if there's other things that are of press topics of [1:06:03] pressing interest that you want to talk about just get that back to myself or Ari or Scott Neil and we'll make sure [1:06:10] that we address that and have that on the agenda so again we're looking to schedule that in either late May or June [1:06:17] depending on on workload okay very good any questions on that topic [1:06:22] all right uh anything from the for the good of the order Miss Linds anything [1:06:28] for us from a staff standpoint we need to know about i don't have anything all right and uh commissioners anything for [1:06:34] the good of the order commissioner Jackson just briefly the bridge is now under construction i want to encourage [1:06:40] people to continue to shop at 50th in France we can you can still get there take Eden Avenue instead of 50th and or [1:06:47] Vernon and and you can get there they're still open for business and um don't forget them i'm hearing comments from [1:06:54] people already that it's more well managed than the last summer and they feel like they can get on and off [1:07:00] Highway 100 which is important um and then don't forget folks this afternoon is the clothing swap out at the backyard [1:07:07] at Braar Ice Arena and I think maybe starts around 2:00 or so you no charge [1:07:13] for anything you bring clothes if you want just come and find free clothes uh but it's a place to bring some things [1:07:19] that you maybe think that uh are good to be sharing with others and uh or to look [1:07:24] for some things for for yourself or or family members so that's one good thing that's going on this week along with [1:07:31] some Earth Day activities and Commissioner I pulled it up because I was going to mention that one too i'm [1:07:36] excited about the clothing swap it's 4 to 7 4 to 7 okay thanks for that that's that's important to know uh anything [1:07:43] else on the calendar there you want to mention no okay all right is there a motion to adjurnn so moved second mr [1:07:49] jackson moves commissioner Pierce seconds the motion to adjourn the meeting of the H this Thursday April 24th 2025 any further discussion all [1:07:57] those in favor of adjournment say I i i opposed carried we stand [1:08:03] adjourned thanks