what to expect for this meeting um a little later. But first, it's important to know, as I mentioned, your feedback's vital. So, the city's committ committed to getting your feedback, and we are committed to reading it, reviewing it, and considering it before we make any recommendations for approval or denial or any uh any uh recommendations tonight for that matter. And the best way to do so for those tuning in who might not know the city has a engagement website ww.etto togetherina.org. That's the best place to track potential and ongoing and past developments. There's a handy map so you can see what's happening close to where you live and stay engaged that way. Uh tonight we have one public hearing. I'll go over that process and how to tune in remotely and participate remotely for testimony later. Uh but in general, the agenda for tonight will follow this. We'll have a call to order, then roll call. We'll have the approval of tonight's meeting agenda, followed by the previous meeting minutes from April 8th. We'll have our community comment period. Then we'll have the one public hearing. After that, we do have one report and recommendation and then we follow things up with chair and member comments, staff comments, and adjournment. So, without further ado, let's call this meeting to order. Then, roll call. Commissioner Nelson here. Commissioner Alky here. Commissioner Padilla here. Commissioner Smith here. Commissioner Day here. Commissioner Bournestein here. Commissioner Felt here. Commissioner Haniman here. Chair Bennett here. Next we have the approval of tonight's agenda. Motion to approve. Second. All those in favor say I. I. So moved. Next we have the approval of the prior meetings minutes from April 8th. Motion to approve the meeting minutes from April 8th. Second. All those in favor say I. I. So moved. Next, we have the community comment period, and this is your opportunity for those who are here in person that would like to testify about a matter not on tonight's agenda. You have three minutes to do so. You can come up to either podium, state your full name, your address. When the light starts, when the light is green, you have three minutes. When it turns red, your time's up, and we'll ask you to wrap up your comments. Uh, is anyone here for community comment? Seeing none, we'll move right on to our public hearing. So again, we have one public hearing and this is if you're new to this process, this is kind of what it's about. So if if there's an applicant that wants to do something with their land that doesn't quite conform to the code, I'm from Minnesota, I guess, tonight. Um doesn't quite conform to the code. Um, uh, staff staff looks into it and, uh, takes a look at the law and the codes, the ordinances, see what doesn't apply. They put together a report, uh, with facts and findings. They consult with other departments as needed in commissions and then they put all that together into a presentation for us tonight. Uh, we we're going to continue to kind of combine the question and answer period. So after staff presents, we'll give the opportunity for the applicant to do their own presentation. And after that, we'll bring it back to the commission for some questions and answers and some brief discussion before we open it to the public hearing. Once that begins, that's your chance to testify about the matter. For those of you who are in person, it's the same process as I mentioned with the community comment. And for those tuning in remotely, uh, I will give you a phone number and a bunch of passwords and cues to jump into the queue to participate when we get to that matter. But for now, just hold tight. And then after that, we bring it back to the commission to deliberate and we make a recommendation for approval or denial. So with that, pass it over to planner rocker to present for this public hearing. Variance for 4200 morning cedro. Yes. Thank you, chair. Members of the planning commission, this is a front yard setback variance request. It is for 4200 Morningside Road. The subject property is approximately 7,15 square ft in area. It is a corner lot as you can see highlighted. It is in the northwest corner of Grimes Avenue and Morningside Road. It consists of a two-story home with an attached twocar garage that currently has a deck above it. This is a survey of the existing home. It also includes the small addition to the building footprint. Most of the addition or improvements um they're on the second floor. It would be an addition above the garage which would include a great room as well as a covered deck. The uh roof above the great room would extend over a deck area. And then the area that is to the south of the home here is a portico on the main level. And then um you saw in the previous photo of the existing home there's a a bay window on that second floor the the floor above and that will be squared off. And that requires an additional uh variance due to the fact that it's getting a little bit closer to the south lot line. This line indicates the required setback from the south lot line. It is the front yard setback of the neighbor to the directly to the west. This property has two front yard setback requirements. One along Grimes Avenue and one along uh Morningside Road. Technically, this is the buildable area of the lot as highlighted in yellow. So that setback that is required for Morningside Road is actually what the setback is of the existing house that is facing it as well as the house that is directly to the north. This house is just slightly closer than the home that is to the north. The yellow area is if the home were to be demolished is the area that is the buildable area of the lot. So um the actual width or depth or whichever you would like to call it um of this buildable area is about 19 1/2 ft. So um given the size of the lot which is not terribly large the building opportunity is uh very limited. So, regarding the compliance table with what they would like to achieve, they will be maintaining everything that is already existing with the exception of the setback along that south side. They're going to be getting a bit closer. Currently, it's at 15.9 ft. Um, they'd like to reduce that to 13.97. And that would give them the opportunity to um square off that main floor um box portico area and then add um a little bit of area to the bay window area that's up on the upper floor. So this is what they're proposing. and they will be changing the roof line and then um boxing out that bay window that's existing there currently and then underneath it will be um having a slight enclosure of that um front entry. This is the great room edition again with the the deck um underneath a new roof line. It'll have the same roof look, pitch, um but it'll be just a bit little bit lower. But in terms of overall building footprint, it's they're they're really limiting uh the amount of addition that they're adding on to the footprint of the house. So these are the elevations uh front elevation, the new uh westerly elevation showing that great room and then the deck uh with the roof above the right elevation which is facing Morningside no pardon me Grimes um which is the east elevation really doesn't change and then uh the back of the house which is the north elevation this is the major change there they would have um that area that's currently a flat roof garage. You would have uh living space above. The house is rather banked into the hill. So, it's uh far more exposed on that south side than on the north side. Um this gives you an idea of the main level uh improvements showing the existing conditions on that main or or walk-in portion of the house. And then uh on that upper floor, the new great room, which would tie into a remodeled uh upper level, new balcony, and then this is that um modification to the existing bay window, which I believe is a floating desk. And then uh again that main or entry level portion. These are just structural columns that support that upper level addition. And then another support column um in front of the garage, but very minimal increase in um building footprint. And again, the floor plan showing u the remodeling and improvements to the house and then uh the new roof or modified roof plan. So in terms of a variance, um the proposed intent of the front yard setback requirement is uh to provide consistent minimum spacing of a structure to a lot line adjacent to a street. However, the code is rather elastic and it does allow somebody to have a deeper front yard setback which then in turn affects the front yard setback of the adjacent properties. In this situation, they have, I guess, the double whammy. There's two front yard setbacks that they are supposed to be um adhering to um very clearly. They don't um conform to that setback that is along Morningside Road. And that um is not something that is self-imposed. Um it's an existing non-conforming condition that's um been obviously it's a it's a challenge when looking at any opportunity for the house. Um is the variance consistent with the comprehensive plan? Yes, the principal use of the property will still be a single family home will remain as such. Are there practical difficulties complying with the ordinance? I think it was pretty clear with the um with the uh slide that showed the buildable area of the lot. It's it's difficult because most of the at least a third of the home is non-conforming in terms of fitting within that box. Um is the plight of the land owner due to the circumstances that are unique to the property and that are not self-created? Um no, it's not has not been self-created by uh the current property owner. Um there have been no variances that I could tell doing some research on the property for when the home was built in 1979. So presumably at some point it did meet our ordinance requirements. Um however it no longer does. Um and will the variance alter the essential character of the neighborhood? Granting the variance should not alter the essential character of the neighborhood. The applicants are hoping to complement the neighborhood with new home improvements that fit the unique character of the Morningside neighborhood um and surrounding properties. So the recommended recommended action by staff is to approve the 11.5 ft front yard setback variance for property at 4200 Morningside Road. Approval should be subject to the following findings listed in the staff report. The practical difficulty is caused by the required south front yard setback variance requirement and based on what where the neighbor is located currently. There are circumstances that are unique to this property that are unique circumstances include two street frontages requiring front yard setbacks on a very narrow corner lot. Had this been a typical interior side uh yard where you um are not having uh an effect with the street frontage along the side. It would meet the setback requirements of an interior lot. The proposal will not will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood. the garage and portico expansion design to the house um with matching materials will be used and the addition will match the existing home setback on the southside and provide a similar setback as the second floor can lever from the Morningside road. Um with that um approval should be subject to the following conditions. The survey and plans date stamped March 30th 1st 2025. compliance with in the environmental engineers permit review and the tree ordinance. Um there were two comments on the better together edina and uh one positive one uh not supportive of variances and then I think there was a number that were sent later um that were from neighbors they just didn't make it in time to get it on uh better together but they were forwarded to you and they were all positive um Brian Hogan the representative for the applicant is here this evening and with that I will stop and let Um, yeah. Thank you, Chris. Would the applicant like to provide a quick presentation or just simply stand for questions? Your preference. I think Chris did a good job pres. Oh, sorry. So, I'm the contractor for the client. um they're out of the country, but um wanted me to stand and represent them and answer any questions, which I'm happy to do if anybody has any. Um Chris knows the rules. So, I'm just, you know, I just need to get the permit in and see if this is going to happen. Um my my opinion knowing the Morningside neighborhood and living near there is that the impact would only be positive in my in my opinion as far as the design goes. And um I don't think there's any negative features of the proposed remodel that would be a a detriment to any any neighbors or I I know the clients and I know that they've gotten all positive feedback from the neighbors that they know. So um yeah, hopeful that it passes, but here to answer any questions that anybody might have. Thank you very much. Yeah. Turn it to the planning commission if you have any questions for either the applicant or staff. Thank you uh uh for standing for questions. Uh I guess my question would be um I'm just really curious about the garage and adding on top of the garage. Um, I'm not a structural engineer, but could you just share any any reinforcements that you would need to put into the garage like in beams, walls, etc. that would then allow for more weight, you know, for the building massing to be built on top of it? Just any insights there, any changes that you make to the structure of the garage to support the new the new uh living space? Yeah, there's a structural engineer that's been out to the property already and is wasn't included in the plans that Chris presented, but um we do have those plans. So, the whole deck system that currently exists, as well as the joist supporting that deck will be removed. There's a steel beam that is required to go in and new uh TGI floor joists that are required to go in with new subfloor on top of it. Thank you. Any other questions? More for staff, I guess. But um it appears that all the I mean other than 4208 Morningside Road the other properties the one over on Crocker on that's Crocker over 40 249 and the ones going both east and west from there all appear to have the same issue of it of the setback. It looks like 4208 is in compliance, but if any of those properties are looking to do anything different, it appears they're if if those are also considered, it's a sideyard, but it it looks like they'd al also have a double front yard uh variance possibly if you go further to the east. But what's hard to really see what's hard to really pick up on is 4247 and I think that might be Crocker over there. Um has part of their lot that comes down and connects to Morningside. That's how they're how you get into the garage. So they technically would not be subjected because they are not directly adjacent to 4208. So, um, 42 4249 would not have the same setback issue, but if you go across the street on Grimes, 4114 does because I believe the next house over from them, um, they front Morning Side. So, they would also have that situation. Morning Side is a mixed bag. Every lot might be a little bit different. questions. Yeah. In case anyone's tuning in, can you do you know or can we speak to why corner lots have two fronts and and sort of how we thought about that? Sure. Not all of them do. In a typical lot and block situation where you have backyard to backyard and then there's two side streets and each property um has their homes facing the opposite direction. In those instances, they have a set set uh side street setback, but because there are homes fronting both streets, that's their front yard. Technically, the corner lot has to match both front yard setbacks on both streets. It's not um if you go to the west side of Edina, it's usually not as much of an issue because the lots are larger um different configuration, but you get to a neighborhood in like Morningside where they're very narrow. Some of them they might be deep, but um it really does affect opportunity. Good questions. All right, I think that's it for questions. Thank you. Uh stick around in case we have more. Um, but this is the public hearing. So, we'll open the public hearing. So, for those tuning in remotely in order to participate, take out your phone and call the following number and it's on the screen too. So, 3125358110. Enter access code 26321 124 0868. Enter password 5454. Then press star three to get in the queue to speak. Now, while you do that, we'll open it to those who are in person here that would like to testify. Same um instructions as the community comment. You have three minutes to do so. Come up to either podium. Please state your full name, your address. The lights green, go. When it's red, your time's up. Is anyone here in person that'd like to testify? Yeah, please come forward. Yep. Either one. Yep. It should turn green. And three. Thank you for your service on the planning commission. My name is Helen Burke. I am a neighbor to the north of uh the party at 4200 um Morningside Road. And so I forgive me if I'm stating the obvious and what you've already know, but the house that I'm in is the one that was originally on that lot and then it was subdivided in like the late 70s and two other houses were built on the lot. Both of those houses face onto Morningside Road. It's the same with my neighbor across the street, 4247. Um, the previous owners divided both 100 by 200 original Morningside lots into the original home and then two others. Um, I think it's all working. Uh, I think that the plan, John and um Kevin both spent time talking with neighbors and explaining their uh desire to do this. And um I just think it it makes perfectly good sense. I'm speaking for myself, but I've also been in touch with uh the neighbor the neighbor to the west and uh the neighbor to further to the north from me and I think one the one neighbor on better together is so-called kitty corner and she was very positive. So for what that's worth, thank you. Thank you very much. Really appreciate your time. Anyone else who is here in person that'd like to testify. Okay, seeing none, it's been at least a minute. Is there anyone in the queue that would like to speak virtually? No, there is nobody in the queue, so I believe it is safe to proceed. Okay, I guess I welcome a motion to close the public hearing. Motion to close. All those in favor say I. I I so move the public hearing is closed. Thank you again for coming and participating and sharing positive feedback. Turn it over to the planning commission to deliberate on this one. Welcome any discussion or a motion even. I I have no real issues. The only question I had was about the house to the north and since we just heard from that uh party and thank you for being here. Um I'm I'm fine with the uh improvements being planned. I'll just give a quick comment and then we can move on. Yes. Um you know just just overall you know we certainly come across uh cases where we have a grandfathered in type of a situation where at the time these homes when they were built it conformed then rules change and now you want to make a change to your home and now it's not conforming anymore. But based on what I see here personally uh we're just adding up above the garage that's already there. The foot print is not going to change significantly at all. Only really, really tiny small changes in the front. Um, the designs look really great. It's an improvement to the home. So, I think it's going to add to the character of that neighborhood significantly. Um, and so I'm in I'm in favor of this change. Um, I think it it totally fits. Um, I was going to say I appreciate um the reuse of the existing home that this is just added on rather than tearing it down. And I also there is um the extra just under two feet to the front that bump out that's an additional variance a little further but that adds so much character to the front of the house that I think it's completely appropriate and and a very nice entry. So I approve of this I'm just going to make a motion. Uh let's see. I'd like a a mo make a a motion to approve the 11.5 ft setback variance from section 36438 of the zoning code based on findings for an addition to a home at 4200 Morningside Road and subject to conditions listed in the staff report. Second. Do we have any further discussion? Seeing none, we'll go to a vote. Uh, all those in favor say I. I. I. Opposed. Motion carries unanimously. Good luck with the project. Thank you for a great process, good neighbor feedback, all that helps. Thank you. All right, that is it for our public hearings this evening. That went quick compared to some other nights recently. Woo. Um, now you're getting the sun in the eye. Hopefully you brought your sunglasses. So now we have our one report and re recommendation. This is a sketch plan review for a familiar site 616 Vernon Avenue. Uh Carrie, take it away. Yes, thank you chair, members of the commission. Believe this is the fourth project proposed on this site in the last oh three, four years or so. So this again, as mentioned, it's a sketch plan. no binding decision or um just to provide the applicant some feedback on a potential future development application. So the site's located on Vernon just west of city hall here it's this small triangular piece. It's the former Keys automotive site auto service. Here's kind of a dated now picture of the the building on the site. Part of the issue that we've had with this site is that it's guided in the comprehensive plan for medium density residential but zoned PCD4 planned commercial district for the auto service station that used to be there. The proposal this evening is to tear down that existing building and build a three-story 20 unit memory care facility. access is proposed off Eden Prairie Road and Vernon. So again, three levels, a commercial kitchen on the lower uh lower level, some community space on each floor. Here's a massing uh diagram that the applicant has submitted, and they'll go through some of this in a little more more detail in their presentation, but just to give you an idea of the size of the building. Looking at our compliance table, uh required v several variances would be required here off of Vernon and Eden Prairie Road. The parking and drive aisle setbacks on all sides. Uh parking stalls, initially they had given us a number for how many employees were going to be on the site and it appeared to be code compliant. They've since revised that. So they are short parked about three parking stalls. Our code doesn't provide for visitor parking. So, in all likelihood, there would be parking that would spill out onto the street with this proposal. There would be as part of any formal request a parking study that would be done as well as a traffic study. Uh building coverage is noted. It's roughly 35 uh% just with the existing building. There's a patio that's proposed whether that's enclosed or not. So, there might be a variance there for building coverage. Um here is the required setbacks on the site. Uh we've seen this diagram with other projects. So really you can't build anything on this site without a variance. Just as a reference to the pre the last request which was for the station pizza which was more to remodel the existing building and build an addition that also required a number of variances. So with this request a formal application would be a resoning from PCD4 that the current uh designation to PRD5 planned residential district that's where our nursing homes convolescent home type uses are allowed site plan review and then the mult the several variances that I mentioned with the resoning we would have discretion with the formal application. One thing I want to note here is with the comprehensive plan, all those other requests required a comprehensive plan amendment. We don't believe that one would be necessary here within the existing medium density residential land use category of the comprehensive plan. It indicates that small institutional uses would be allowed. So we contacted Met Council. Um their institutional land use category does include new nursing homes. So it was their opinion that we don't need a comprehensive plan amendment uh in this case. So issues for consideration. Um again all these are non-binding. Um but comment on the proposed land use. Is this appropriate given the number of variances? Um and is the PRD5 uh zoning appropriate? One thing I want to touch on too um in terms of the access. So concern that was raised by our engineering department. This wasn't in the staff report. I just got this today. But you know if this is turned into entry on both sides, this could end up just being a cutthrough for all of the people that live to the north. So that would be an issue. we would have the traffic uh consultant take a look at that as part of that study, but that does raise a pretty big concern that that cut through traffic. So, that's something that we would flesh out as part of a formal review. With that, I can answer any questions you may have and the applicant team is here to present as well. What do you think, Carrie? Should we do similar to the Yeah, we could have them present and then Yeah. Do would you guys like to present and then we'll combine the questions? Be a little more efficient. just introduce yourself and I'm sure you got something to present and thank you for being here. Yeah, thank you. I'm Josh Bransstead, the president owner of Agreco. We're a local multif family uh development group and property management group here based in the Twin Cities. Been around for about 22 years. Um so, thank you very much for having us this evening. Thanks, Carrie. Um I'm just going to click forward here. Okay. So, um how we got introduced to the site is we are familiar with the owners of the site. Um they own a restaurant near our office in the North Loop and um and anyways in in talking with them, we've we've heard some of the past stories of of what's came forward and whatnot. And so really our approach to this, you know, when developing residential and residential neighborhoods, um there there's a lot to consider. And I think the collaborative effort is, you know, first and foremost when we go about these types of projects. It's sitting down with people, going to dinner tables, hearing about what their concerns are. And that's really the approach that we've taken to uh today. And and when we started having initial conversations on, you know, what could may or may not work here. Really, our conversations were really focused around what's the lowest level of traffic that could be generated in the neighborhood, what fits in a residential use here. But it's also small scale um because as you know the site is extremely difficult to develop these triangular sites just have a whole new level of complexities. And so that's how we came forward with the the proposed memory care use here. We're really excited about more feedback. We've had four or five different uh neighbor-based meetings, a larger group uh just two weeks ago. Um, and we just, this has just been a really good, you know, process and part of the journey of just collecting a lot of different feedback and different opinions and aspects of, you know, a lot of people liked the restaurant, a lot of people don't like the restaurant. So, we, you know, we're uh, we're we're we're neutral about that. We just really want to get capture everybody's feedback so we can assess, you know, the next steps forward. Um, so I think some of the things that were recurring in our discussions, parking, you know, do we have enough parking? Will we have enough parking? If we don't have enough parking, where will the people park? Um, and how will that impact our neighborhood? The access to Eden Prairie Road, um, concern of ours as well. We've put it in here from a life safety standpoint to show that there could be access to Eden Prairie Road. Um, I think we're we're again neutral. We want to do what's best for the neighborhood on that. um we can um access um all of our needed deliveries, visitors, we can do that and circulate them correctly on the site. Um again this is a very early diagrammatic so you know we can work through that. Um one of the uh one of the requests was can we uh create an access or a drop off basically or pickup off of Vernon. So we've you know we've modeled in how that could potentially work. Um and then I think the other um aspects were screening around the site. So, you'll see in the packet, we've we've proposed three to four different uh three, excuse me, not four, but three different uh fencing concepts in here. I think one of the the questions were, you know, what does a six foot high fence look like? An 8ft high, a 10 foot high fence look like. So, we've, you know, kind of modeled that in here and and reviewed that with neighbors as well, just so everybody kind of has an idea around that. There's obviously a lot more that needs to go into that part of it. Height is another question that's been raised. you know, at three stories. We're consistent with the two condo buildings down. The next door condo building is two stories technically of living, but if you really look at the building, it sits about 25% of a floor out of the ground. And then they have u they have a um pitch roof, so effectively a three-story building, which is which is where we would be. So that that's been kind of some of the feedback that we've uh received through this uh early part of the process. And again tonight, more than happy to answer questions and also uh look for further feedback. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, as Carrie mentioned, this this whole conversation is kind of what the applicant is looking for feedback and we're here to provide some non-binding recommendations and feedback as they further develop. But now is a good time for questions and answers between the planning commission and staff as well as planning commission and the applicant team. And then I'd say maybe it's worth at the end we just go one at a time and kind of share our recommendations in a concise manner if that makes sense with you guys. Sound good? All right. Guess just open it to questions. Thanks for the presentation. I I said just one question on parking. Um this this may be a ridiculous question, but I just want to make sure I understand the math here. My assumption would be that the residents of a memory care facility would typically not drive. That's correct. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. So, if we have a staff of eight and 10 spots and there's then we're really talking about visitors using those two additional spots and potentially going on underto the street. Is that right? That's correct. Okay. And um the the driveway to the east on Vernon looks like would that be abandoned? The existing driveway to the east? That would. Yes. So it' be torn up and planted presumably in the rightway. Correct. Okay. That's all I have. Thank you. I had a question. Um I don't know if you had discussed Carrie. Um, is it going to be an assisted living licensed to memory care or a skilled nursing licensed memory care? Uh, I believe it'd be assisted living to memory care. So, just have we clarified that nuance that it doesn't create a comp plan amendment. We could get more feedback from Met Council um with the formal application and that's my recog recollection um but we can confirm that with the operator. Oh, so you guys will not be operating? We would not be. We'll bring in a local operator here in the Twin Cities that we've done another three of these facilities with here. Okay. Thank you. My question is similar about the operator. The eight staff might not know this, but the eight staff is that eight 24 hours no a day or four kind of fluctuates throughout the day. Um so you know peak staff would be eight. Uh overnight we would have four and then um really the average staff count is more like six to seven. Uh and then they transition one staff member at a time. So that's how you'd get to the eight. Uh weekends if there's large community events um you know we anticipate that could go to 8 to nine potentially uh plus visitors um that are there. Uh and then the average visit times from um from our experiences in that twohour time frame. Uh some can be longer for sure. Uh but uh two hours is kind of our average visit time when we have uh guests on site. Okay. Thank you. Um, and then when you were talking with neighbors or neighbors of this or people in the neighborhood, um, did any of them, because part of me is like one of the nice things about having this in a residential neighborhood is that someone could have a family member there and, you know, walk down the street, right? Like if you grew up in an area or used to an area kind of moving in here, had has anybody kind of talked to you about that at all? Have you heard some of that? Yeah, at our larger uh neighborhood group meeting that we had, I believe it was two weeks ago, two Saturdays ago, um that was that that that aspect was brought up if you know kind of providing that full life cycle housing within this neighborhood for folks that um to your point that may have grown up here, maybe they spend a certain period of time here, they may have family members that live here, so it's closer for them to be here and within their community. Okay. Um, yeah, I'd be interested to seeing what the parking study says, but I mean, I think there's some benefits to being in the neighborhood and also knowing that the staff rotates in and it out gives you a little bit more flexibility in the parking. Um, and I wanted to ask about the you got there was a request for the drop off on Vernon. Yeah. So, one of the the question was is if ambulances are going to be coming, if there's uh bus drop offs for the bus takes folks out to activities and whatnot. Um so, the question was, you know, is there an opportunity to drop off or do pickups um in either way, whether it's medical service or whatnot off of Vernon versus bringing them into the actual uh parking area. So, what we've really done is just to illustrate, you know, the turn radius could potentially work there for that. you don't have any feeling one way or the other. Um I think it'd be nice. Yeah. You know, have have a nice formal drop off if it's not for somebody that needs to stay, you know, for an extended period of time at the site. Um or if you're picking somebody up. Yeah, I think it could be nice. It could it'd be kind of a nice solution to, you know, when people are have a a flexible five or 10 minute, you know, need versus taking up a parking stall for somebody maybe needs to be there a little longer. And that that may be one thing, you know, on Vernon because it's busy and if someone something's there, it makes me concerned having that off Vernon in that way. I' I'd rather see it someplace where there's a little bit more room around it. It's a little it feels a little tight for Vernon. And then the other question is, do you have any safety concerns of the residents and Vernon being accessed? No. um you know these facilities are you know quite locked down. Okay. Very secure. That's one of the first and foremost um uh aspects of how they're designed and secured from an internal uh aspect. Plus the the staff council there to watch that. You know we really only have three I think maybe we have four units on that first floor which is the highest. Yeah we have four back here. Um which is really the highest uh likelihood of somebody to wander. Um okay. And there's a lot of different design meth methods that get incorporated within these buildings to dissuade people from being able to recognize an exit point uh and whatnot. So, u I I have little concern just due to the fact that we've done other facilities like this and even kind of more of like an urban setting you would call it and uh and we've been successful with those. Okay. Um, and when you come back, you were talking about the height of this building versus the height of the condo building. Um, can you kind of do an elevation along the street and kind of Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, we'll do a we'll do a in-depth height study with the surrounding. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. just uh two questions. Well, just one, can you talk just a little bit about, you know, the reaction you're getting as you've kind of put the idea out there and the concept into the community and, you know, if there's any kind of like common themes and and how folks have been reacting and then just specifically, I don't have a perfect understanding of like in reality how a memory care building works, but um how you were just touching on it a little bit, but how like for the folks who live there How supervised are they with respect to like leaving and walking around? Yeah. So, maybe I'll take because I think you just mentioned it, but I Yeah, I'll take the second question there. Um because I think it's a really important one. Um they are they have full-time care attendants at the site. So, each level has its own designated care attendant and that's why we have four overnight in case somebody on one of the other floors needs to come in and sub in for somebody because they need additional help on another floor. Um but the uh the individuals are not allowed to leave on their own. Uh if they are to leave the confines of the building, they would be supervised. Um so that is um that's just how they're operated at that point in time. Um from feedback, so we've received I would say, you know, a lot of the the positive feedback has been from our uh close surrounding neighbors. Um people that I think um want to lower traffic use. Um I would say as we get to um further away from the site, we've had uh folks that really were looking forward to the restaurant. Um but they are um I think generally supportive of of what we're proceeding with here if the if a restaurant isn't going to go here. Uh because it is a low um you know a low traffic generation. It's a um type of use. It doesn't create a lot of noise. Um visitors are here for a very limited time. you know, they're kind of gone by that six or seven o'clock time frame each day. Um, they could come earlier in the mornings, but, you know, it's a it's kind of a it's a more I would say it just kind of fits better within the fabric of a single family residential neighborhood. Okay. So, I I'll build Well, first of all, thank you for being here. um probably doing could be doing other things tonight on a very nice night, but we appreciate you coming in front of us. Um so I guess building on some of the questions about the the site and the memory care and whatnot um the nature of the site. Do you think that the one thing that stuck out to me a little bit um was the how small the patio and outdoor space is. Do you think this that space is adequate in terms of outdoor space for the residents? I know they're not going to be going out very frequently like you said very locked down but um there's not a lot of close I mean it's not easy to get to a park from here and from this particular location so just wondering yeah you know so each floor like I mentioned um we have uh four units on the first floor and then this you know this potentially could extend up we don't have it shown as extending up here you know it could be like a screen in porch concept if if we were to do that um you know you would have probably more adequate level of outdoor space for each floor. Um but I think that is something that you know taken as a feedback point. Is there an opportunity here to create uh more outdoor space for people because it is the nice you know aspect of in the summers and the springs and the early fall time frames. It's nice to be able to use that type of space. Yeah. Um all right. So, one of the things that, you know, immediately was drawn to my attention with the access here is the concern around access to Vernon and, you know, bring traffic um potentially impeding traffic there and whatnot. And um what do you think, and this would be a potential, you know, pros, cons only for this site? Um well, the traffic and the delivery traffic, trash, etc. all have to come through the neighborhood. I mean, now trash, you would say, already is coming through the neighborhood, so that's probably not a new new theme, but you do have deliveries. I mean, we're using box trucks, so it's smaller delivery trucks, but um you'd have new traffic generation within the neighborhood. And um and then any visitors coming to the site, you'd have additional traffic there, I'd say. Potentially up to 10 additional cars at any given time. Okay. Okay. Um a few questions for the city actually now for Carrie. Um first one coming off Lincoln lendary small area plan. Are there any concerns around sewage capacity at this site? Yeah, that is one thing that we are exploring uh with Met Council just what is the the sweet spot here. Not sure if we've landed on on that, but we think preliminarily there is capacity. Okay. Okay. Um, as far as parking goes, right? So, we've talked I know there's a few concerns already raised about parking, um, number of spots, etc., and spillage over to Eden Prairie, are there any parking restrictions on Eden Prairie in around that location? Currently, not that I'm aware of at this time. um you know, should this go in and there's parking issues, you know, it's one of those that could be considered by the traffic safety committee and maybe something gets posted, but nothing at this time. Okay. Um another one that I think would be brought up as we talked about the comprehensive plan and how this fits into medium medium density residential. um just comment on the fact I guess potent that the 5 to 12 um residents per acre is guidance right it's not a strict number right because this this would certainly be above 5 to 12 right and it's an institutional use um but that doesn't mean it would not be permitted here because it doesn't meet that that density requirement yeah that was staff's first concern was I figured this was high density and then when we dug into it a little more um met council has advised that we shouldn't take density into account that it's um more like a new nursing home and instit institutional use. Yeah, I just wanted to hear that discussed a little bit more just because you know the lift would obviously be a lot heavier if this was a comprehensive plan amendment as we've seen. That's a huge point because Yeah, it goes from a four-fifths vote of the council to three-fifths. Right. Right. Um I guess did staff have any concerns how this I mean it sort of in in essence conflicts a bit with our comprehensive plan and really our code now so this is P would be PRD5 not R1 or R2 right um but it's pretty much primarily kind of residential um and we say in our code right you know that corner lots no driveway shall intersect with a street designated um by the comprehensive plan as a collector arterial and this is an a minor arterial um as designated by the comprehensive plan. So, did staff have any thoughts that they shared on that? I mean, in addition to the concern about the cut through um that this could potentially create for traffic. Uh yeah. So, yeah, staff is definitely concerned about the dual access. Um just one whether it be Vernon or Eden Prairie works better. Um I think from a staff perspective again we'll get comment from a traffic consultant as well as our city engineer looking at it a little closer. I'm concerned with that um double access off of Vernon. The county is going to it's it's their road. So um they would have the jurisdiction whether to allow that or not. Um so yeah still um a lot more investigation needs to be done on the on the access and traffic. Okay. Okay. And then the only other thought I had about the access piece was with whether um our emergency services have like handed any comment on this in terms of if you were to limit this to Eden Prairie Road only, would they be worried about response times for ambulances, anything like that? Probably not, but just wondered if they commented at all. Not specifically to that. Um but we would certainly have that if if access is just proposed off Feed and Prairie Road. Well, either way, no matter how it comes back, we'll get that comment. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. I'm just trying to anticipate where the discussion could lead with the community and whatnot and everything. So, appreciate it. And thank you. Can I ask what kind of box trucks come here? I mean, if they're like FedEx or UPS, aren't they already in the neighborhood or are they specific? You know, that's a really good point. They are uh for food delivery and linen pickups and drop offs. Okay. Okay. Primarily. Yeah. I'm wondering if like there could be um ambulance access access or um Cisco food delivery on one side and someone else on the other if people are worried about the cut through. Yeah. I mean I think there's engineering room have a lot of good solutions too. Okay. Thank you for for presenting and and just being open to feedback. I appreciate that. Um I'm just trying to think at a really high level and then just kind of put out some thoughts I guess you could consider as you continue to refine the sketch plan. Um so I'm sure like many of us have probably experienced, you know, family members having to go to memory care and and and what that's like. So there's always like a lot of families. um that that show up, you know, not just one car, but you know, something happened to grandma, you know, and then you call your brother, you call your auntie. So, one person could easily generate three, four cars, right, that would show up to to support. And we also have um cases where ambulances would be called more frequently uh to this site than usual, right? So, it would certainly drive some more traffic. So I'll just kind of lay out that high level because the nature of the business with kind of drives different assets within the city right um you know spike in traffic if incident occurred which also brings a spike in ambulance and maybe fire you know you know how those things show up. I was just trying to think through the closest fire station to this location would be the one on um on on Tracy Avenue. And if they were to make a trip here, they would take Oolinger Boulevard and probably go up Oolinger Road and then go up Vernon. That's like the shortest path, I would guess, um to get there, which would certainly just drive more traffic or ambulance responses through those neighborhoods to respond to something there. So that's just something that the residents should kind of consider that it's going to certainly bring, you know, the fire trucks blaring through coming through and then once they do arrive, right, I'm thinking here that they're going to need to find a way to to turn a much a a large vehicle around um to to respond. And so to the question that was earlier, you know, just the turn radius and and the coming off of Vernon to come into this lot, I think really think through that part, right? Because um you would not only have families responding to something happened to grandma, you have ambulances responding. So you're just going to have three or four vehicles just all of a sudden show up and they need to coordinate to get in there and deal with a situation, right? So getting the parking and the moving movement of vehicles through here would be would be really important. And it just seems like that section where you have it, you know, covered in red there. It just seems like it's not enough um space. Something about that seems congested and I and I'm not sure. But if you model through what that looks like, that would certainly help. um and just kind of show us like how would it all that all that coordination happen in that small space um would be important. Uh, in terms of um parking, for sure, this is underparked. I think I was curious if the cut through area that you show here, if that could just be converted into parking spots and you put up some kind of barrier so cars don't drive through, if that's going to within your control or the city's control, I'm not sure, but that's just one idea, right? So instead of parking on Eden Prairie Road, you convert that little gray section there into parking spots potentially to take some staff parking and put it there. Ideally someone who's going to be on the site more frequently like 24 hours like a director or Yeah, thanks again uh Jeff for being here and presenting. Um, you know what's not being said is this is obviously a very is it's a small site. Uh, tight site, tough to build anything on. Um, I think the amenity you're proposing, the memory care building or a senior care is needed, necessary, would be a great amen amenity for the neighborhood. uh you probably got to build it one unit size by 30 30 stories high to to get it in there. But um you know isn't real practical. I guess I I echo a lot of what I'm not going to repeat what what was said because a lot of good things were said. I think the uh just knowing Henip County and kind of how they react to roadways and whatnot, they're not going to be real excited about that in and out so close to each other. But what Quincy Commissioner mentioned um you know that north access and then running a road kind of parallel to Vernon down takes a lot more green space out but might be a little safer and especially since there's already an entrance and and exits at those locations um or or near those locations. Um my my real question, my real comment is it's not really appropriate because we're talking about this this um 616 Vernon, but um it appears the the condo unit to the west is two and a half stories you mentioned, I believe. Mhm. Um what would the setback on that be? And appears they have plenty of room there. Has there been any discussion with them about acquiring some of their land um to make something like this work there? Yeah, we have um we have talked to a couple of the uh condo owners. They were at one of our early neighborhood meetings and I think that is uh you know a conversation. If they're up for it, we we definitely can have that conversation. I think really what we've been more or less waiting on is when we get through this process of the sketch plan review kick off the traffic study um you know really solidify the staffing uh plan which I think we're you know very closer there at this point on that side of it but then also the guest traffic generation etc just to really ensure that we we do it right for sure. Yeah. And I'm not thinking just for additional parking or anything, but to slide the whole property further, you know, the building further to the west and and uh then have then have ample parking. Um but again, that takes a lot more effort uh and whatnot, but it it looks like they have 80 to 100 ft there. It's it's hard to tell how much, but they got extra, you know, they might have 50 feet or something there extra that they could sell off. And if they could, that might make something work. But again, it's talking in hypotheticals, which you know, I think this is anyway. So, just wanted to bring that up. And it sounds like you've been thinking along those lines and and talking to the people. So, um, uh, let's just see. Exiting. Yeah, I guess that's really all I have right now. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I I have no further questions. Uh but maybe it's worth just going down the line and just sharing final comments so you can kind of take all that feedback in one. Hi. Um so I've spent the last 20 years of my life in senior living operations. So I have some uh some thoughts. Um, I asked initially about how it would be licensed because that does speak to the emergency egress plan and um, as your architect can tell you, there are different ways that memory care residents um, do actively try to alope and um, in certain cases under certain building conditions, right, you can push the panic bar and in 30 seconds it releases. And um I've been a part of projects in 50th and France there at the waters of Adina and the waters of Excelsier. And um I think Commissioner Padilla is absolutely right. The operator will tell you exactly how many employees they're going to have on site, but you're going to have therapy come in. You're going to have people delivering food. Um I'm not worried at all about the ambulance or the hospital because the operational staff will have a great relationship with them. people call and say what kind of emergency it is and they come without their sirens on. So, I'm not I'm not worried about that. But I I am worried that realistically we're not talking about the right number of people whether or not they're employees. And I'm concerned that while it is memory care and it will be a lockdown facility um in Minnesota depending on what kind of lensure it is, you can have more ambulatory folks with dementia and those people have behaviors and want to get out. they they they will make that sort of their life's goal. And I would really hope that the next time we see that you that you have your operator here and that they can really speak to how this design will protect the people in it. Um and how the enclosed outdoor space, how the parking, you know, how drop off works. I mean, these people aren't likely going to be going to the park. they're not likely to be going out to Target unless a family member takes them one- on-one specifically. Um, depending on again how it's licensed. I saw that some of the units were noticed uh listed as short-term stay. that may be a different category of of people and and I think as we think about how this parcel is used um we need to be mindful of that um of who actually is going to be in there um I think that might be my only note I mean I appreciate that the renderings with the eight and 10 foot fences um but I don't know that that is the solution for this particular population and um I I just yeah I I guess I need to understand because you are the proposal is for a business that has a particularly vulnerable population. It absolutely I believe strongly it should be in residential but 20 people in this building on this site that isn't really thoughtful I think would be really negligent and if you go and talk to folks at both the waters of Adina or I'm sorry the waters of Minneapolis and then the waters in Excelsier I think you will find that them being located on busy streets in an urban area has um brought challenges to them with their memory care residents that maybe they weren't initially anticipating. So, I'm sure your operator is fabulous, but I I really feel like the future of this design um needs more informed understanding of how that operator thinks they're going to work this building on that space. Thank you. I I think the [Music] um you know for for me I think is I mentioned earlier I really love that this is kind of life cycle um you know that people can raise their kids um you know turn over their homes you know to their children their grandchildren and like stay in the area is a great thing that this is a modest small facility I think is a good thing. So, I really appreciate that. I do um I have driven my bike down Vernon Avenue a couple of times and I always really I go through the neighborhood as much as I can. I cut down that sidewalk over there, but going down that stretch of Vernon on a and that's a bike lane there is not very nice. So for me that that boulevard section between the street and the facade is important and um you know so I think having divided bike lane which is a city thing but having a nice kind of boulevard and a sidewalk for people to walk on especially if those are your common areas and a lot of green there really kind of buffering that whole strip um as as much as on your property is important. And um and then I'm assuming there's no kind of um materials on here, but have it look as residential as possible, right? And I think there's some great, you know, condominiums and other buildings around there to kind of look at. And that's it for me. Thank you. Thanks for the presentation. So, um maybe I can comment on a different angle. This these comments were really good. Um, I think it's important. I think we all think it's important that something happens here. You know, we've all been through it with this site and like there's probably total consensus that something needs to happen. And so, um, maybe I can just focus on the likelihood of this being the thing that could happen. Um, I don't know how familiar you are with the history of this site, but for whatever reason, this one has generated more controversy and like fear and anger and then other feelings of like excitement or whatever than anything other than maybe one or two other projects. Um, the the last time this site was being talked about, a high quality pizza place was being proposed and people really got upset about that. Um, and you know the I remember there was there were some folks in the neighborhood who who really thought it would be amenity, but there was a louder maybe smaller, maybe bigger, but louder kind of upset contingent that was uh really opposed to that type of use happening here. Um, I remember the the hear the themes. You know, there might be crime that that would occur. There might be people from other places that come and like walk around the streets at night or something. Um, and what? Not with a dry clean. The drugs. The drunk. The drunks. Oh, the drugs. Okay. I forgot about the drugs. But like crime, drugs, people walking in the streets, people from other places. Like that's what was driving the conversation last time. Um, appropriately or not. And I think that uh none of those harms are going to be plausibly a concern here. nor were they the last time. But I think you've got a really good shot at getting something through like this. Um, personally, I don't I don't think that there's a huge public like a development related benefit that's going to spin off from this the way that maybe a commercial use would have generated. Um, I can't think of much, but I do think developing the site is beneficial. Um, but for this particular neighborhood and like the vocal and kind of group of folks who live really close to the site, I don't think there could be anything better. Um, this delivers on everything folks were concerned about and wanting. Um, there's not going to be any crime. Um, there's there wasn't going to be before, but there certainly isn't going to be with this. There aren't going to be any people walking around. It's not even permitted. uh the residents are kept inside almost as via via rule. So, I'm just saying like this isn't like we listened last time. Um there aren't going to be that many people from other parts of the of the community coming other than maybe family to visit. In many ways, like the like the soft qualities of this fit perfectly with what people said they wanted last time the pizza place failed. And then it has the added benefit of being residential, which is what the council said was important because they said that the comp plan is a promise made, needs to be a promise kept. And that was a theme that other people said, too. And this is consistent with that. So, um, the operational concerns that Commissioner Hanaman raised are, I think, legit and deserve a fair amount of extra thought. I don't know anything about that, but she does. And so that could maybe throw a little bit of a wrench into it or would need to be ironed out. But politically or just like from a palatability standpoint, this is like a strike down the middle of the strike zone for this area. Um even though it might not be considered that from like a planning type of group. So uh there there I can't even think of that many objections. One could be parking. Like people might park on the street sometimes when they visit. That was an objection to the pizza place, too. I think it's invalid because the streets are public and people can park on the public streets when they go somewhere. Um, I also don't think it's a big deal because there's apartment buildings right down the street and people park on the street all the time in this neighborhood and it's not controversial. So, I don't really expect that to be a huge barrier for you. And then, um, the variances uh, seem pretty reasonable, too. I mean, it's an unbuildable site unless those variances are granted. And so for all those reasons, I think this one might be the one that that gets there if you can if you can address some of the operational concerns and uh and tweak it a little bit. Yeah. Thank you. Hard to follow up, but I'll bring it back down from the high level political a little bit. I won't touch that. Um want to come back to this just the site really in general itself, right? So just initial thoughts on that and execution here. um as as takeaways. Um so I mean obviously initial thought or a few initial thoughts I had when I looked at this I was like it seems crammed with the V 0 foot setback and and whatnot but the site is crammed. It's a corner there. I mean we saw that red triangle of death for development there. I mean there's really nothing you can do um on here without significant variances, right? if you want it to be a useful spot. Um, so crammed, sure, but that's not really, you know, a concern or it's we're going to have to overcome that. That's the nature of the site. Um, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the traffic study. um particularly as it affects Vernon just because honestly, you know, I still as it pertains to our goals to move traffic away from arterials and to avoid congestion and whatnot and how this would, you know, the amount of traffic coming in and out of this site. Um and the potential to create conflict on Vernon. Uh I would feel better about this if there was no access off of Vernon. Um, I'd be curious to see what that does from an operational design standpoint and how that could be managed. I mean, maybe you could do even just have access off Vernon, but have it only be a gate that only emergency and delivery can access or something like that and then you don't have a pass through and and whatnot. Um but you know it just again that congestion piece we identified Vernon and really that whole stretch as something that could be an opportunity for gentle density in the city right as an area that's a area of potential change um and really an opportunity for increased public transportation movement for for people right so if again just avoiding that right conflict would be would be great to see um the patio space you know it's and you're limited again on on how big your spot is. And I don't know, I don't think we need a ton of it. Maybe moving it off of ver away away away from Vernon and having it like tucked away back differently on uh north side of the site or something like that might make it a little bit more pleasant. Um don't know how you would, you know, necessarily design that out, but I think it it's something that could be done and might might enhance the site a little bit. Um and that's that's really it. you know, it's just it's that access off of Vernon for me. Um, that's this sticking point with the design. Um, but again, you everything else you're really just so limited by the geography there and how this is plotted out. So, so yeah. So, thanks for coming out. Thank you. Thank you again. I I know I covered some of my comments earlier in the in the question section, but um yeah, you know, really good feedback that you're getting. I think for me, if I were to boil it down, I would say um you know, the the use would fit for this location, Memory Care, um probably much better so than other uh plans that we've reviewed. Um the parking and the movement of traffic, I think if I were to rank the highest challenges, it would be that. Um, so I know you're going to work with each traffic team to to look at that. I would certainly run a lot of different scenarios of where you could put parking, right? Assuming you could move the massing around anywhere you like. You could move the massing more westward, put the parking in front, you could move it different locations to see what would make sense. Some of the guiding thoughts I would have is, you know, if you could definitely share based on the operations of this location, you know, making it easy to get in and out for families and residents. I mean, for families and and folks who want to use the site. Um, you know, how can you make it super simple, like you totally get where you need to come in, where you need to come out, and not difficult for folks to maneuver through it. Um, some congestion would occur, uh, I would expect. Um, but if you could minimize that somehow, um, that would be the idealist situation. Um, you get the least amount of push back, if you could figure out if folks could not be on Vernon, um, ideally, but if some does spill over, how do you minimize that as much as possible? And, you know, uh, based on some of the feedback, right? um with this kind of lo you know location the types of services that it would require the contracted services um I totally get the operator says yeah seven people max but I would try to pro you know plan for or or risk assess if you might need more um just to accommodate for for the different services that might need to come in and out if if you could crack that nut this is going to happen, you know, and so I think these are some of the challenges that that that this site has. Totally get, you know, the the issue with this triangle a lot is it's been really hard for a lot of people and we've been trying to make it work. But I think if you could identify ways of making those movement, traffic, parking, uh, easy uh, to navigate and minimally congested, I think this would be a a great win and this site would finally get some of that development that it solely needs. So, thanks again. When I look at some of the other um either memory care or um nursing facilities in Edina, I think of um Heritage, I think of Walker, I think of Sunrise. [Music] Um and one thing that that um they all have is um because the residents are generally slow and need, you know, additional time and help and stuff. Um they have covered, you know, like covered walkways or covered porticos. And I don't know if that's what you're anticipating in this red space or whether or not that's simply a a drop off for commercial things. And um but I would strongly suggest that um uh in inclement weather you have some way for the residents to be able to walk and be protected. Um that's obviously pretty minor. I do think that this is a very unique opportunity for this space um as some of the other commissioners have mentioned. Um, and I think it fits well. And um, I saw another property many, many years ago be developed in Edina that worked out very well and it uses the neighborhood teenagers for this food servers and stuff and they walk or they ride their bikes which is really helpful. But having said that, um, if that doesn't end up being the case, I'm very concerned about the parking. Um, and whether that be, as I said, I think the numbers of people who will be working there, whether they're employees or not, in non-medical capacity, um, is probably double what your guideline, what the guidelines are that you're going with. So, I think that's an issue. Um, and then I worry too about um, emergency vehicles. Again, when you look at these other three, um the three that come to mind that are in Edina, um half the time you drive by, there's an ambulance in front of the building. Um so I think, you know, great care has to be taken to make sure that they have access, uninterrupted access, access where other people can still get around and that they can do whatever it is that they need to do because that's an important component um of the services. But I also think it's facility-wise it's a great opportunity. So thank you. I hope there can be some reconfiguration or something that makes it work. Appreciate that. Thanks for coming in tonight. Um I think this is a positive inclusive addition to our community. I really support the project. I'm glad you're doing it. Um I won't repeat all of the things I already heard my fellow commissioner say that I agree with. I'm generally on board with every single thing that was said. The only the only thing that I'm struggling with a little bit and I don't know what the right answer is, but I'll just uh build on it. It feels to me like the right place to enter is off Vernon and we've approved other projects that have entrances off Vernon. So, not to say that we have to be consistent all the time, but I'm not too concerned about that as a as a potential. It seems like the operator would have a better time with deliveries and trucks coming in if he didn't have to back out onto Vernon. So that's why it makes sense to have an exit or access on Eden Prairie Road. Also, so I can see the need for an entrance and an exit. I can see the danger of having a cut through into the neighborhood. I can see that the operator probably wouldn't like that that much. Mhm. It's not going to increase the traffic on Eden Prairie Road because there's it's kind of a dead spot there. The only people are going to use the cut through are people who live up there. Yeah. So, I I I think there might be an opportunity. I mean, you have experts who know this much better than I, but there might be an opportunity for a gate and a walkway on the Eden Prairie roadside that lets trucks out and lets people in who are parked on Eden Prairie Road, but just not doesn't make it a new street to get in and out of the neighborhood. So, that's the only thing I'm I'm thinking about. Overall, it's a tough spot to work in and I think this is a a potentially wonderful benefit for our community and a nice way to use the space. So, thank you. Thanks, Sharon and Mike here today. So, um thanks again for being here. Uh, as I mentioned before, the um I I don't have a topographical look on this, but knowing the site fairly well, it's it's relatively flat. It starts going downhill as you go to the west. I don't know if this site starts going downhill that way or not uh within the site or if it's further to the west. But the the only reason I mentioned that is I think the only thing that that I see as being a major stumbling block might be the threetory height that you have. I know you explain how the pitch roof and everything, but if it could be buried a half a half a story like the adjacent buildings, I know that adds a lot of difficulty to the resident type that's there and access in and out and whatnot. Still obviously going to have to have an elevator in the building, but um that's my thought. And then maybe shifting the building more to the the west up against, you know, closer to that building to share that that same height would would make the appearance look better. uh you might fight a little bit, you know, twist it, turn it, however you you can fill that space. I think if you're able to possibly purchase a few 10 15 feet from the neighbor, you you'll you'll give yourself a little more breathing room, but um that may be a challenge. Um, I just think that the height ultimately from the neighbors standpoint, the single family homes, uh, you know, going to full I don't know what the height you had 30 feet or if it was, uh, 40 ft, but you had probably between 32 to 35 ft. Okay. Um, might be a challenge. So, my only thought is if you're able to come in on on that west side somehow with a uh um you know at at the first floor grade and and have the rest of it buried somewhat might it might help. But uh it's a tough site. So, I wish you luck and uh I I do like the use of the land for this pro this type of property. So, thanks again for coming out. Thanks. All right. Thank you. I'll start with some positives here. appreciate everyone else's feedback is very thorough. Um, luckily a lot of my feedback just deviates in general, so it won't be new. But, um, I appreciate the process here. It's clear that you've gone about a much more deliberate and inclusive process to get to this point just based off of neighbor feedback that I've received and we've received some of the comments. Um, I think that helps any project, that community-based kind of process and shared vision towards something that works. So, I know that immediate neighbors are pretty in favor of this and it matches kind of what you said and as you get away, people are more excited about what it could have been. And I guess from the um high level perspective, you know, as Commissioner Borstein touched on, um you know, the planning commission supported the previous use and site development and the council majority did too, right? I mean, it was 3 to2, but they had to get a super majority, four to one. So they failed because there were two votes of disscent on that and some of them were predicated on you know does this proposal um degrade the value of the surrounding neighbors and ultimately that was what was believed and I guess when I know I have this much discretion because you know we're doing a resoning and we a number of variances like unless something really drastically changes here like I just don't know if my support will ever be won over here and I I mean I commend what you're doing but kind of to what commissioner Borenstein said like when we have and this is just going high level the big why um I just I contend with the fact that the crown jewel of Edina is our single family neighborhoods I think it's that within an asterisk. It's that they're pred predicated on convenience and having things close by to do. And as I look to the future of Edina and you know our role thinking more long term about some of these decisions it's does this does this get Edina toward where it ought to be and looking at some of the future oriented guidance and my own personal opinions which is my discretion. You know what the previous proposal did was drew people in to walk to bike. you know, it it brought the community in and that's what I firmly believe needs to be around the neighborhoods more and what makes Edina unique is we have a lot of commercial draws and what this does kind of like if I could say Commissioner Borenstein reasons in like, you know, a more satirical way. It like does the exact opposite in in such a like to me kind of laughable way, but it's true. you know, it's keeping people from going to the site and from leaving the site when we have the opportunity to do that and to reuse a building that's otherwise there. Um, just fundamentally, it just opposes um where my discretion would be used for this. Um, that said, knowing that, you know, this happens often where we believe one thing and then the city council votes a different way, which is common, I'll at least provide some maybe helpful guidance in case it does go. Just as reminders of previous proposals, what they did well, what you might be able to change. Um, I know parking's a challenge, but I mean, if there's any way in which in which things could support I I just even think of that the entrance, even if you have a cut through um if that shifted to the left of the parking um so that the parking's up against the building, you don't have people crossing, you know, like you might lose a spot. Um but could you get it somewhere else? So, I think as the site's laid out, that's just opposite what it should be. You should have the parking along the building so no one's crossing the drive path. Um, I agree with Commissioner Alky if there is a gate or an arm that could be there. I know neighbors are happy, but that was such a contending piece of the previous equation of having this cut through traffic and having people park on the street. I think if you either have an arm or a a significantly elevated platform like for the drop off or that exit that either really slows people down or prevents people from using it. That would be good. One of the big things I've mentioned every time is this is like the only stretch of Vernon on the north side that doesn't have a sidewalk. I don't see one here. It need like it needs to have one regardless. I and how you interact with that um with the building so tight that that's just part of the other parts of like why I can't support this. It's it's just so intense and having zero setback rate on Vernon. That's a lot of mass which like we're not seeing or think about like if we don't count dwelling units and you know we're not looking at the density. It's like there's 20 residents tight up against Vernon. It's a lot of mass, a lot of shape right on the street, right along the power lines, which I'm guessing it might have to get buried to accommodate the building. So, there should be a sidewalk connecting, you know, and maybe the city can then chip in to connect to that little spur to the east and then like we've said every time, hopefully this propagates like a sidewalk continuing east and west. But I would expect to see that regardless um with the next plan. And uh as far as the turnaround, I I was I was kind of thinking of what Commissioner Padilla said too. If if that's a drop off, it's almost like there's a sidewalk or kind of like patio maybe 15t from the building, but if that turn around or that that turn in to drop people off could just get tighter to the building and you do have like a protected overhang for elements. It's just if you're dropping people off like it's winter half the time so it'd be nice to just have that a more protected um drop off. Um that's my feedback. Um I appreciate you coming in. Does anyone else have any other recommendations or feedback? Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming here and being bold. You're, you know, attempt number five. So I do agree like you know it fits more with the character of the neighborhood uses. So best of luck to you. Thank you. All right. So that's it for our public hearings and reports and recommendations. So next we have chair and member comments. Just pass it to other commissioners if you have any comments you'd like to share. Yeah. Um, I'll just note that uh Ryan, David, and I uh just had interviews um initial interviews for the unified code and uh look at our zoning. Sorry, it's been a really long day. Um looking at our zoning code project. So, we finished, you know, moments before tonight. So, no thoughts other than just that as an update. Just a quick plug. Um, uh, supporting neighborhood associations. So, last Sunday, Morningside had their Earth Day celebration, which was really great. Um, the mayor was out there. I think our state rep was out there as well. Um they were promoting everything green. Um from cars to how do you get the right kind of audits for your home if you wanted to have an energy efficient home. Just a lot of great ideas and I think Morningside does a great job of bringing the community together around a cause and making it really fun. The kids were playing. It was really great. And so other neighborhoods in the city, um, I would strongly, you know, encourage them to do things like that because what it does, I think it it it brings people together and connects families, connects neighborhoods, and I think that's overall going to be really good spirit for the city of Edina. And so, just a quick plug, you know, just support your neighborhood associations, come up with some cool ideas, and have a really fun and enjoyable summer doing things together. I just uh want to second that and thank uh Commissioner Smith for the uh leadership on the uh neighborhood association front. Um I'm involved in the Brookview Heights Neighborhood Association myself and uh while I haven't given it nearly as much time as Commissioner Smith has, I I understand the the need for that. So, I appreciate your your uh commitment to that. The only other thing I wanted to mention um more on a a uh heads up front or a personal front is the Rotary Club of Edina Morningside and the YMCA are hosting uh Edina Rides. You probably seen signs out and about uh in the town, but May 17th at 9:00 a.m. it will be held at the Southdale YMCA. And if you're interested in more information or to register, please go to edina rides.com. That is all I have. Thank you. Anyone else with anything else? Thank you guys for sharing. Awesome. All right, Carrie, you got anything for us? Just quick update on the last city council meeting. They held two public hearings. No decision made, but it was the Opus project across the freeway here and the Lincoln London small area plan. They'll make a decision next week, but they did make a decision on the library site that was approved unanimously. That's it for me. Thank you, Carrie. Motion to adjurnn. Second. All those in favor say I. I. So move. The meeting has been adjourned. Thank you everyone.