report on that I'm sure at a subsequent time in the meeting. Uh before I call the meeting to order, I just want to remind everybody that we're doing these meetings on a hybrid basis. We've been doing it since co uh people can call in if we have a public hearing. Uh if we don't have a public hearing, they can still call in for public comment. Some folks are will be in the audience tonight for both those uh participatory opportunities from the public in general. And um we welcome people to call in. We'll put the uh call in information is on the screen now and uh be ready to go because the community comment comes up fairly quickly and uh so having provided that information I'm going to call the meeting to order and ask our clerk Sharon Ellison to call the role. >> Council member Agne is absent. Council member Jackson >> here. Council member Pierce >> here. >> Council member Risser >> here. Mayor Hublin >> here. Our colleague uh Kate Agno is missing tonight because she had a baby. uh I mean like just a little while ago had a baby and uh her third girl >> and so it's exciting for her and her family and we wish her the best and wish she was here to join us this evening. We've got an interesting uh agenda and look forward to the conversations with all the people that will be involved in the meeting this evening. The next thing we're going to do Yes. >> If if I could I'm fairly certain that we could wave to the camera and she might be watching. >> Oh. So congratulations >> congratulations. [Applause] >> Wish you the best Kate and little Kate. >> All right, let's The next thing is the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thanks everyone. We've got a meeting agenda that's been uh published uh for the benefit of the public and uh the members of the council uh in advance of the meeting. Is there anyone on the council or from a staff level that wishes to uh amend or change the meeting agenda in any form or fashion? Is there a motion to adopt the meeting agenda as published? >> So moved. >> Second. >> A motion by uh member Jackson, second by member Pierce to adopt the meeting agenda as published. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adopting the meeting agenda is published say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. The meeting agenda is adopted. I had uh mentioned earlier that community comment would come up fairly quickly. Uh and here we are. And so we're going to go to folks in the audience first that have a concern they want to address with the council. And then we're going to turn to the virtual world to see if anybody is joining us there. Uh and then our city manager is going to respond to any community comments that were made at the prior meeting. uh which is our normal practice. So um uh welcome. >> Good evening, mayor and council members. My name is Ralph Sickert. I live at 4311 Cornelia Circle. Last September's final council meeting resulted in a projected 17% increase in general property tax levy for 2026. That's not news to the council, and one would hope it's not news to residents. This past month, manager Neil finally shared that he's targeting something below 10% for the 2026 general levy. Mr. Neil's target rings hollow. It's hollow because, as Mr. Neil has stated numerous times since December, his focus is the general levy, not the overall tax burden on residents. Unfortunately, his words have become actions. Actions taken by both he and the council. In June, the council gave final approval to terminate six city staff and outsource Adina's property tax assessing department to Henipin County, an initiative which will eventually reduce Adina's general levy by $1 million only to see that cost passed on to residents via Henipin County property taxes. In July, the council gave so-called preliminary approval to issue a $9 million bond to be paid via a special levy, a rarely used mechanism to tax residents. In this case, it will add roughly $1 million a year above and beyond the general levy. And later this evening, council will likely give final approval to a $1.2 2 million increase to the fees added to every customer's Excel and Centerpoint and utility bill dollars to be used for Adina Street repair costs previously funded via the general levy. None of these three actions save taxpayers a dime. As a resident, I care about my entire tax burden, no matter which pocket or whose pocket the money is taken from. But for the average resident, this is hard to follow. So, let me share a simple story over herd at a North Dakota cafe. Oie goes to the local bank to make his $400 monthly mortgage payment. When he arrives, Scotty, the bank manager, says, "Olie, I can reduce your monthly payment to the bank by half. All you need to do is sign this paperwork." Oie says, "That would be awesome. I'll talk to Lena right away. Oie shares the paperwork with Lena, who diligently reads the 300 pages and then turns to Oolie and says, "Ollie, Scotty's right. If we sign this, our monthly payment to the bank will be reduced in half." "Fabulous," says Ollie. "Not fabulous," says Lena. "Instead of paying the bank, we'd have to pay the other half to his other to his brother's bank in Wisconsin. whereupon Oie says, "Selena, you mean we won't be saving $200 a month?" My question tonight is when will the council send a strong message, a united message that 2026 and 2027 are not just about the optics of the general levy. To me, August feels a little late. >> Thank you, Mr. Zigert. Thank you for maintaining the clock time, too. appreciate that. Uh, anyone else in the audience that wishes to uh, express a concern to the council on a matter that they're interested in. Okay, let's turn then to the virtual world and see if we've got anybody listening in that wants to speak to the council. >> I don't have anyone on the line for community comment at this time. All right, let's turn to our city manager for response to community comments that were made at the prior meeting and see if there's anything to report. Manager Neil, >> thank you your honor. Uh we had we had uh three kind of sets of questions at our last uh council meeting. First question was around lighting around Grand View Square. And yes, there has been a reduction in lighting, but the lighting that has been replaced is is better lighting, more intense lighting. But the lighting number went from 46 to 28. It's part of the Grand View Square street lighting project plan. Uh we did this reduction uh because we were running into tree issues that were obstructing the light and the existing lights were directly adjacent to a number of trees and blocked by foliage um directly across the narrow street and then some were redundant. It's also important I think for the council to know we get just as many I'd say complaints about too much light coming from street lights and as we do not enough light coming from street lights. So, it's important to try to balance this and we're also trying to balance it from a budget standpoint as well. Second set of questions was around pedestrian safety at on Eden Avenue in the Grand View District. Uh, this is a question that's come up a number of times before. Um, I I I think we first want to say we app we appreciate the concerns that are being expressed. Uh, the concerns around safety are real. Uh we are seeing a great deal more traffic uh on this area detourred onto this area because of the bridge replacement um than we expected quite frankly. But a number of the of the ideas that were raised are not possible for us con considering that this uh that we have Minnesota state aid route uh requirements that we have to comply with including some of the suggestions around uh raised raised crosswalks or speed bumps we we just aren't allowed to do by by state law. So we are continuing to to recommend that people walk up to the street crossing uh on near Vernon. Uh um we asked that they push push buttons for flashers, wait for traffic to stop, make eye contact with drivers. These are all the kind of recommendations we give for these flashers. Um anyway, final question was uh whether or not we would be adding more firefighter paramedics uh in the upcoming uh budget cycle. And the answer to that is we are working on our budget proposal. We are trying to figure out how to do that and bring that to you in a way that's uh both economically stable and sustainable for the future as well and we'll be doing that at the next council meeting. >> Thank you, manager Neil. Manager Neil's comments prompt any thoughts from council members council member RER? Um, I will go back and listen to the comments from the previous meeting, but hearing that the reduction in lights went from 46 to 28 when the words that were used was this was going to be replacement is cause for concern. And if I'm remembering correctly, uh, the resident did say there were areas now that were very dark at night and they were concerned about being able to walk around and walk pets. And that seems like a very basic concern. And so I'm wondering if we can add more lights um at least go verify what the situation is and maybe I'll go do that but um I did just want to comment on that. >> Council member Risser, members of council, uh I think what we can pledge to you is that we will we will go forward with this plan and we'll see what our see what how the light turns out and and if we need more for safety purposes, we'll we'll come back and and address that then. and uh Director Milner. >> And I would just add the lights aren't in yet. They're concerned with dark because it's completely dark. We had to take all the lights out. They just are getting the bases in. So there will not be lights for 6 to 8 weeks yet. So I wouldn't review it at this point. They're not operational. >> You have any sense of the illuminating power of the 28 versus the 46 that were there? >> We feel a lot of them were blocked by tree foliage. If you look at Google Maps as example, but we did it walking. they were in the trees, so we'd have to take trees out to put lights back where they were. Um, so we don't think those were doing much of anything for street lighting, and we felt like they were redundant, like manager Neil had had mentioned in that response, >> right? >> But we can always add lights later. We know that there's capacity to do it. >> Your your advice is let's see how it works once we get the new lights in. >> Correct. >> See if people still have concerns. >> Okay. Anything else from Yes. Council member Pierce? Um, sticking with the same area, um, the crosswalk, now I, manager Neil, you talked about what we're allowed to do on a temporary basis in that area. Um, I understand the suggestion was to walk up to Vernon. And I just want to clarify, I drive through all the time and I actually thought there was a sidewalk on that side and there actually isn't. And so if they were going to all if they're going to be on a sidewalk all the way to Vernon, they actually would have to cross the street and then walk on that sidewalk past the library entrance and the BP to get to the light. On the other side, the sidewalk stops. Um and then you know for a pathway they're they'd be walking across um grass or a lot or something and then the sidewalk picks up again to go to Vernon. And so is that what we're suggesting? >> Yeah, you want to take a take a crack at that >> or am I thinking about it? >> Director Milner, you're you're talking about on the east side of the of Vernon, I think. >> Yeah, maybe we'll start at Gran View Square where this crosswalk is. So, if you're coming from Gran View Square, use the sidewalk that's on the south side of Eden, there is a sidewalk all the way to Vernon. Then, we're asking to use the push buttons and the traffic signal and head kind of to the north towards Jerry's. >> Okay. So, >> and that first segment where there's a bus stop and that first entrance in the Jerry's, there is a fullsize sidewalk there >> and that's where most people are going. They're going to Jerry's. So, you can now enter the parking lot and go that way. If you continue on Vernon, there is not a sidewalk and that's a major gap in our system that we're looking for those opportunities to fill with grant money and working with the county. So, in our opinion, they can get the Jerry's where we think most of the people were headed. >> Okay. >> Using that crosswalk, >> I I think we want to acknowledge this isn't a great uh detour and it's not what we would like to do ideally, but it's it and it is inconvenient for them. That's that's for sure. Um, but in that case, we have committed that we're making some changes. Last time we talked, we're just waiting on >> Yep. So, we're still >> parts to be delivered or what have you. And then I'd say the same thing for lights. We're committed to make sure that it's lit in a way that residents feel safe, but we want to get in place what should be there. Acknowledging that we think the illumination is going to be significantly brighter than what we have what we had currently >> and balancing the uh the light levels so that people who don't like so much street light get or heard as much as people who want more light >> and within our budget as well. >> Thank you member Jackson. Yeah, just to to one last comment and that's the people walking their dog would feel that they could see the sidewalk safely. I think that was the comment that stuck in my head so they could go up and down the curb safely and and you you would apply standards that would cover that. Correct. >> I'm not um can you repeat that comment? So, one of the com one of the commenters last um meeting said that her husband walks the dog and because it's an older population that lives in Grand View Square, they were concerned that the darkness going up and down the curb to the sidewalk when they're walking the dog would not be safe. And that's the sort of thing that you look at when you're determining whether's enough light, that getting up and down the curb wouldn't be dangerous because it's dark. >> We put lights at every intersection. They should be using the pedestrian ramps because there's trees and signs and other stuff that block the lighting midblock in uh when you step over a curb. So, yes, the lighting at the intersections where the ramps are and there's no stepovers are going to be illuminated. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And back to the crosswalk issue, what I understand is that we've got a temporary problem that's significant because of the bridge reconstruction out on Highway 100. And then based on that project being finished, there's going to be some further analysis on what we can do to improve the permanent condition in terms of enhanced safety for pedestrians, if anything. >> Yeah, I I provided you a list of 10 things we can do acrosswalk. We've done about eight of them. The next two are six figure kind of traffic signals over the roadway, and I don't know if that's appropriate for that location. So, I think we have to address that some people just aren't comfortable with midblock crossings because we can't change the behaviors of people pulling behind them after they're halfway across a crosswalk. Um, that's almost an enforcement thing and we just can't be sitting there 24 hours a day. So, we will continue to look at it and see if there's things we can do uh after this interchange project is over when traffic resumes to its normal location on Vernon and 50th. Oh, what we what we really got right now, at least on a temporary basis, is a driver behavior problem relative to pedestrians. >> Yes. >> I bet you'd never have that in California, would you? >> They're always stopping for pedestrians out there. All right. Okay. Let's move on. Uh we've got a consent agenda. That didn't mean to cut anybody off. If there is any more further dialogue on this issue, uh consent agenda. Anybody wish to remove an item from the consent agenda on the council? All right. Uh, is there a motion to adopt the items on the consent agenda in a single motion? >> So, second. >> Okay, we got uh we'll go. Member Pierce, we'll go. Member Pierce moves. Member Jackson seconds the adoption of the items on the consent agenda in a single motion. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the items on the consent agenda say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. items on the consent agenda are adopted in that motion and there are quite a few of them and I'm going to turn to member Jackson who wanted to make a couple of observations about some of the items on the consent agenda and I did as well. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, the consent agenda had an appointment of a number of our engaged residents and I wanted to um thank them for their service. So, Jerry Gilligan and Jeff Hugat are going to continue to serve on the Adina Housing Foundation. Thank you gentlemen. Um, Richard Miller we are appointing to the Minihaha Watershed District Board of Managers and I want to thank him for stepping up and and serving our community. And Bernardet Pichek Lanes is going to be on our Arts and Culture Commission. So, uh, thank you to her. So, thank you all of you for continuing to serve our community. >> Thanks to that, uh, Council Member Jackson, just a couple of quick observations. I've been over over time the work that our sustainability director has done and and our grant writer uh it's it's been pretty phenomenal. And so um to know that we're going to be the first city in the state of Minnesota to convert our heavy equipment fleet to biodiesel uh where it really didn't make much sense to try to do it on an electric electrified basis. But to know that we're going to be able to reduce 90% of our greenhouse gases produced by that equipment by this conversion is is pretty cool. And um so we we got this biodiesel B100 fuel supply tank on the consent agenda tonight and and of course it's all supported by a grant from the department of commerce I think for what manage $163,000 which is great. Then we've got that conversion uh going on of the equipment as well. And then uh from the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, we got a really nice grant for eight new shade structures uh for the uh park that we're creating down at Fred Richards, the old Fred Richards golf course for $500,000. And uh then we got a uh another grant to assist with ashtree removal for almost $134,000. So, uh, kudos to all those on staff that are working on securing grants, uh, and observing where opportunities are available and and getting in the mix, uh, for selection processes. So, there's three nice grants there totaling, you know, close to threequarters of a million dollars. So, that's that's terrific. Um, I also wanted to thank Jerry Gilligan and Jeff Hugget for serving on the being interested in continuing to serve on the Atlanta Housing Foundation because they do some good work and they're very valuable with the skill sets that they bring. Um, all right, we've got uh we're going to move on to the next portion of the agenda now, which is the special recognitions and presentations portion of the agenda. We've got two matters in this portion of the agenda. uh one is the safe and equitable mobility action plan update. Uh Andrew Cypion has that matter and then we're going to also address our quality of life survey results for 2025 and that'll be up next. So Mr. Cypion, welcome. >> Thank you, mayor, members of council. Happy to be here to uh provide an update on uh our work on the safe and equitable mobility action plan. So this plan started with the adoption of the infrastructure and investment infrastructure investment and jobs act uh which established the safe streets and roads for all program or SS4A. Uh the goal of this program is to prevent roadway fatalities and serious injuries. Through this program there is $5 billion available for over a 5-year period uh for planning, demonstration, and implementation of projects that support that goal. Um, however, through this program, an agency needs to have an adopted safety action plan. And although the city has an active route to school plan, living streets plan, ped and bike master plan, none of those meet the federal requirements for a safety action plan through this legislation. So, the city thankfully uh was able to get a $200,000 grant um through this program in order to develop that safety action plan. Uh we also received a $50,000 grant from MIDOT to help cover our local match that's required as part of that grant. The objectives of this plan are, as I mentioned before, to reduce fatalities and serious injuries on all roadways within our community. um to review existing guidance and policies we have related to traffic safety, incorporate equity con considerations into those decisions, re-evaluate the multimodal infrastructure needs of our community, and to increase our grant funding opportunities for infrastructure projects. Because this project is being funded by a federal grant, there are certain components of the plan that we're required to have. One of those is what they call a leadership commitment. Uh, council may recall at your last meeting you adopted resolution 2025-83 in which the city committed to a goal of zero traffic deaths and serious injuries on all of our roadways by 2050 and an interim goal of a 50% reduction by 2035. Uh, and I'll get into where our numbers are uh in for traffic fatalities and serious injuries in a little bit. The plan also requires uh a group that is charged with the oversight of development, implementation and monitoring of that safety action plan. So with our consultant partners at Alliant, humanized Minnesota and tool design, we have assembled a task force. Um that task force includes u several members of Edina city staff representing engineering, public works, community de uh engagement, DEI, police, fire, and community health. We also have representatives from the transportation commission and from Edina public schools because this plan relates to all roadways within Edina, not just the local roadways. We also have members of our task force that represent Henipin County, Metro Transit, and Minnesota Department of Transportation. Uh safety analysis is a key component of this plan. Uh we started by looking at uh all crashes reported in the city of Vina over a 10-year period. So this is 2015 to 2024. In that time period, we uh experienced uh 6,438 total crashes. Uh on average, that's about one every 14 hours occurs in the city of Edina. Uh and you can see the breakdown here by property damage only minor and possible injury and fatal and serious injury crashes. Um, one thing that I think is worth noting here is that, uh, thankfully we have a relatively low rate right now of serious and fatal injury crashes. Um, but we do see a serious injury crash roughly every two months in our community and we see a fatality on average every two and a half years. We also then break down that safety data by uh, roadway classification. So looking at our local roadways, county and state, and you can see the breakdown there based on severity of crash. And we also look at crashes based on mode. So as you can imagine, the majority of our crashes do involve a motor vehic motor vehicles only about 6,300. Uh and of those crashes, only 1% result in a serious and fatal uh injury a ser a fatality or a serious injury. When it comes to bicycle crashes, um that fatality and serious injury rate jumps up to 4%. And the minor and possible injury rate is about 90%. And then when it comes to pedestrian crashes, the minor and possible injury rate is 77%. But the fatal and serious injury rate is 18%. This process also requires significant community engagement. We created a page on our better together uh website um to get feedback from the community early on as far as where are the issues that they see um as they're traveling throughout the community. What are the traffic safety uh improvements that they would like the city to consider? Um through our online survey, we received over 200 uh submissions from the community. Our online inter interactive map had about 50 pins placed on it. Um, we also held five pop-up events at uh various community events um throughout the summer and we plan those events to try and hit at least one quadrant of the city. We are also looking at developing a community profile based on uh key indicators of social vulnerability. So this includes looking at community characteristics like age, race, disability status, income, and vehicle access. The map up here shows census data um that displays the percentage of households in Edina with no vehicle access by census block. And you can see there are some census blocks in the community where as many as one out of three people do not have access to a vehicle. Um the goal here is to accumulate uh create cumulative equity score for each of those census blocks similar to the PAX equity criteria that we use for scheduling projects uh that are funded through the PAX fund and then we will use that uh cumulative equity score to inform our project prioritization. Our consultants also looking at existing policies, plans and processes that we have in place related to traffic safety. So they're looking at uh the guiding documents shown here, living streets, ped and bike master plan, our comprehensive plan, the active routes to school plan, our climate action plan. They're looking at guidance we have related to roadway design um other safety uh policies um projects that are identified in these plans uh and the processes we have for implementation and funding. The next steps in this process, we are currently reviewing the results of our community engagement. Uh we plan to uh review those with our task force at our meeting that's coming up next month. We're working on completing the other deliverables including the safety and equity analysis I mentioned before in addition to starting to develop strategy and project selection. Um we expect that a draft of this plan will be available by the end of this year. We expect to post that on our better together page for additional community feedback as well as hold a public open house to solicit more community feedback on that plan. Uh I expect to be back before you in early 2026 to ask you to adopt the final safe and equity mobility action plan. And once that plan is adopted, then we will start the process of um applying again through the SS4A program for funds to implement projects that are recommended in that plan. So I thank you for your time and I'll take any questions that you may have. >> Yeah, there may be questions. Let me go to my colleagues. Member Risser. >> Um I'm all for safe streets. I think it is so important. And one of the things that um keeps me up at night is thinking about things that we may approve and they end up not necessarily following what is in our code and could have a negative impact on safety. And I can point to a specific example of this. There was the landscaping plan for 4404 on Valley View Road and it includes spruce trees in the boulevard that is for Oaklan. And so as you're going down Oak, it's where Oaklan 62nd and Valley View intersect. As you're going down Oakan in the boulevard, there are these two spruce and they're going to get bigger and bigger. And I've already heard from residents concerned that you can't see pedestrians and bicyclists as they're going down Valley View. And so there there was criticism from the very beginning like why did you approve the spruce trees? And I just only recently discovered that in our code it says you can't put spruce trees in the boulevard. And so it's hard to be in a position where you inadvertently approve something that you really shouldn't. But at the same time, doing the additional work to find out whether it is in violation is really a heavy lift. And so it would be great if we could be confident that, you know, we are following code and we're getting the information when we make the decisions and we have a a more thorough analysis of what comes before us so we don't inadvertently undermine these efforts. So, I just wanted to say that and I don't know if there's anything we can do to systematically ensure that when projects come before us, there aren't aspects of them that are counter to code and counter to safety. That's I don't know. Uh what I can say is that um I didn't mention it, but as part of that policy and process review, our consultant is looking at sections of our city code that relate to traffic safety items. Uh I have to check with them. I'm not sure if the boulevard tree section was included. Um but there certainly is a lot of connection there between both for traffic calming and for visibility of pedestrians, bicyclists, transit riders, motorists. Um so that's some thank you for bringing that up and that's something we will consider. Thank you. >> Council member Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, two questions. First of all, I believe we have a plan that we're looking at all the crosswalks and everything to make them accessible. Um, and that's been underway for a while as we're redoing sidewalks. Has that plan been folded into this or how how is that? I didn't see it on the list of documents you were referring to when you looked at creating the safety action plan. the I I believe you're referring to our ADA transition plan. >> Yes. >> Um that that certainly is related to this. All of the facilities that we would um propose as part of this plan would be required to be ADA compliant. >> Can you take the work that we've already done and fold it into this is my question. As well as, you know, we want it to be ADA accessible, but we've done quite a bit of work already. and and can that because I think that's a big source of danger if you're if you're slower or if you're using devices to cross the street, you're more vulnerable. So, um >> we're still doing the inventory. Uh big city, lots of sidewalks, lots of ADA ramps. We're continuing to try to do quadrants of this uh inventory. Okay. >> And then from there, work plans and work orders are put in based on staffing levels and budgets and stuff like that. So that's more of a that's an operational thing that's happening already. There's really not a document. Okay. >> Uh that you referenced around ADA and the transportation side other than these standards that are in the industry. >> Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. And then my second question is how reliable do we think these funds are in the um infrastructure act? Do you think they'll be around by the time we've got our plan put together? >> So the uh sunset date on the current IGA is 2026. So, uh, at this point, we feel confident that we will be able to apply for funds in 2026, uh, for construction of projects. Um, beyond then, it's up to the legislature to decide whether or not they they want to continue that program and continue that funding. Um, but for now, we're uh hoping for the best in 2026. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Really a lotable uh goal here. is vision zero that was um I think first talked about at length by secretary Buddhaj judge at US do and we think about the fact that we kill 40 50,000 people a year nationwide uh on our our surface transportation system uh says really some important work to do. We've had, I think from your data, four fatalities in the last two and a half years. And I couldn't tell from the data that you provided where those fatalities occurred, if they were on local streets or they were on trunk highways, they're running through our town because you had data uh as to the percent of serious accidents and injuries that were occurring um in multiple locations. So, what can you tell us about those fatalities that we've had? to to clarify, it was four fatalities over a 10-year period. So on average, that relates to that equates to about one fatality every two and a half years, right? >> Um, of those four fatalities, uh, I recall one was on a county road, one was on France Avenue. I believe two of them were on, uh, state highways and one was on local roadway. >> The one on the local roadway was the most recent one where the little girl went out into the street on her trike. Is that does that count as a >> traffic? The one that I'm aware of was on County Road. It was on France Avenue. >> Okay. All right. Anyone else have any further comments or questions for Mr. Cypion? All right. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah, we're we're fully supportive here. >> So, continue the good work you and your team. Um, all right. We've got uh the next matter in this portion of the agenda uh is a report out on the quality life survey work that has been done. We've been doing it for what director Benerroat 16 years and we've had every other year we do the study and you've got results over a 16-year period. And um I want to turn to you now to introduce the topic. And then we've got uh Jason Newmire here with not here with us I guess virtually here with us from PCO uh who's going to give a presentation a brief presentation on the results of that survey. So >> thank you Mayor Hubland. Um it has been my pleasure to work on Edina's quality of life survey since 2011. Um we have done that survey in oddnumbered years. Um when we first started doing these statistically valid surveys, we worked with a local company at that time. Um that company was called Decision Resources. It's now called U Morris Leatherman. Um after a few surveys using that company, we made a switch from telephone surveys to mailedin written surveys um to provide um more anonymity and because um research showed that surveys completed over the phone tend to get a response that's more positive in nature than neutral or or in fact negative. So we have worked with PCO since then. Um early on um that company was called the National Research Center. PCO has acquired that company as one of its lines of business and we've been with them since. Um we started work on the 2025 survey last fall in the fall of 2024. Um and it is my pleasure tonight to introduce Jason New Meer from Poleco who will talk about the survey, the survey methodology and the key findings of the survey. Um, with that, uh, please welcome Jason Newmire. >> Welcome, Mr. Newer. Look forward to hearing your presentation. >> Great. Thank you so much. I'm very happy to be here. Um, as was said, my name is Jason Newire. I am the survey research director at PCO and National Research Center, and I'm pleased to be here to present a summary of these results from the 2025 ad quality of life survey. I do want to before I begin on behalf of myself and my PCO co-workers uh extend a thank you to Jennifer who was our primary contact for us throughout the survey development and implementation process. Uh she provided thoughtful and detailed feedback from start to finish on the survey itself on the report of results and on this presentation deck. So with that uh a little bit about who we are before we share some of the results. So, PCO is an online community engagement polling platform that provides local governments with resident and employee feedback. Uh, today hundreds of organizations nationwide use PALCO for strategic planning, for budgeting, and for empowering president voices. As was said before, PLCO actually merged with the National Research Center in 2019. The National Research Center is best known for our national benchmarking surveys such as the National Community Survey, the National Employee Survey, and the Community Assessment Survey for Older Adults among other custom surveys like we completed here in Adina. Since 1994, we've worked with hundreds of jurisdictions nationwide working to develop the largest benchmark database of local government sentiment in the United States. You can also see here that PCO partners closely with ICMA and the National League of Cities as well as many other local government leaders like the Alliance for Innovation, the Engaged Local Government Leaders, and many, many academic partners, including the American Association for Public Opinion Research, the University of Wisconsin Madison, the Hoover Institute at Stanford University, and most recently the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. So this is the eighth time that Adina has conducted its quality of life survey with us. Uh all households within the city were eligible to participate in this most recent survey. A list of all households within the zip codes serving Adina was purchased based on updated listings from the United States Postal Service. And then using GIS boundary files provided by the city, addresses located outside of Adina's boundaries were removed from the potential list of households to serve it. So from that list, 2,000 addresses were randomly selected to receive the survey invitation. Those 2,000 randomly selected households received mailings beginning on April 7th, and the survey remained open for six weeks. The first mailing was a postcard inviting the household to participate in the survey online. The next mailing contained a cover letter with instructions, the survey questionnaire, and a postage paid return envelope. And then the third and final mailing was another survey packet providing residents with one final opportunity to participate. Uh a total of 451 completed surveys were received from these efforts providing a response rate of 24% and a margin of error of plus or minus 5%. Of those 451 completed surveys, 281 were completed on paper and 170 were completed online. Now at PCO we have a benchmarking database that includes survey data from more than 400 communities across the country. This database includes responses from communities who have conducted our national community survey or a custom resident survey uh such as a Dinos within the past three years. This allows jurisdictions to compare ratings of services to ratings of similar services from other communities and we'll highlight those comparisons here through the rest of this presentation. So next we'll turn to some highle results and some comparisons before we dive into our detailed key findings that our survey research and data science teams helped to develop in the report. So 78 items were available for national benchmark comparisons in this most recent survey. A higher rating uh indicates that the result was at least 10 points above the benchmark, while a much higher rating would be indicative of an average rating that's more than 20 points above the benchmark. Likewise, a lower rating is any item which has scored at least 10 points below the rolling national average. Items that rate in much higher than the national average in Adina include the overall opportunities for education and enrichment, K through 12 education, public places where people want to spend time, shopping opportunities, snow removal, and adult educational opportunities. Additionally, 35 other items scored at least 10 points above the national benchmark. You can see here that there was one item that scored below our rolling national averages and this was in relation to the question on what impact you think the economy will have on your family income in the next six months. 78 items were also available for comparisons to Minnesota communities. Uh for most of these items, comparisons could be made to about 30 other communities found in Minnesota. In many cases, a diner ranks number one when compared with other Minnesota communities, including for shopping opportunities, the overall quality of business and service establishments, snow removal, public places people want to spend time, ambulance or emergency services, the overall opportunities for education and enrichment, and adult educational opportunities. Just to reiterate, Adina was the top community among around 30 in Minnesota in each of those items that I just listed. Now we have national comparisons, we have statewide comparisons, and we have comparisons to yourself. So when compared to results from 2023, there were 204 items available for trends. Uh the margin of error for comparisons between these two most recent surveys is plus or minus 6%. So 22 items received more positive ratings over the past two years. Those with some of the largest increases include sidewalk maintenance, providing a safe and secure environment for all uh residents of all backgrounds, storm drainage, and street repair. Those top items that rated more negatively or lower in 2025 include the availability for housing for lower inome families, the availability for housing for lower income singles, drinking water, sewer services, and overall economic health in the city. As you'll notice throughout of the uh the rest of this presentation, we're going to indicate areas where Adina exceeded national or state benchmarks and where statistically significant changes have occurred between the 2023 and 2025 surveys. All right, so with that, I'd like to move next uh into some of the highlights of our findings. I want to point out a few items that stood out to us as survey researchers. Now, there's a lot of additional data in the full report that we won't cover tonight, but the rest of this presentation will focus on a few areas that we found to be most noteworthy within the uh survey results. So, key finding number one, a diner residents continue to enjoy a high quality of life. Residents continue to rate their quality of life highly with 92% of survey respondents awarding excellent or good marks in 2025. This rating was higher than our national benchmark and similar to peer communities in Minnesota. As you can see here on the slide, this rating is similar to results dating back about a decade with the overall quality of life rating holding steady between 92 and 98% from 2015 through 2025. The o the quality of several broad categories of community livability were also evaluated on the survey. About nine and 10 residents positively rated the health and wellness opportunities in Adina, the quality of overall natural environment, and the overall opportunities for education and enrichment. Meanwhile, about 8 and 10 gave excellent or good ratings to the overall economic health, established built environment, the image or reputation, and the overall neighborliness of residents. Each of these ratings were similar to 2023 aside from the overall economic health of Adina which decreased seven points from 2023 from 90% to the current rating of 83%. Adina residents rated several community characteristics higher than both the national and Minnesota averages, including opportunities for education and enrichment, health and wellness opportunities, and even with the decrease, the overall economic health of Adina scored above national and Minnesota benchmarks. In addition to rating overall community characteristics, residents were also asked to rate several uh um to rate several of the individual characteristics within the community. As in previous years, you can see here that the highest rated individual aspects uh were cleanliness, shopping opportunities, recreational opportunities, and the overall quality of business and service establishments. Other very well-rated aspects were K through2 education, fitness opportunities, and public places where people want to spend time. You can see the corresponding relationship to the national and state benchmarks here uh with the stars on the screen with shopping opportunities, recreational opportunities, the overall quality of business and service establishments, and K through2 education scoring above both comparison levels. And then finally, above and beyond these broader measures, residents were also asked about their opportunities that they had to be involved in how Adina is run. Uh the opportunity to participate in community matters saw a statistically significant increase of 7% from 2023, returning to levels that have not been seen since 2019. Additionally, we saw a 10% increase in respondents saying yes to the question, other than voting, uh, do you think that if you wanted to, you could have a say in about how things are run in this community? Once again, this is a statistically significant increase from 2023 and nearly the highest percentage, yes, we've seen in the past 10 years. Right. Then, key finding number two, ratings for safety continue to receive high marks from residents. When asked about their top reasons for living in the city, 57% of respondents selected that it was a safe community. When asked specifically about safety, nine and 10 residents rated their overall feeling of safety in Adina is excellent or good, a rating on par with both national and Minnesota benchmarks. Residents also rated how safe they felt in three different areas of the community. About nine and 10 residents said they felt very or somewhat safe in their neighborhood and in the downtown area while about twothirds felt safe in the South area. Each of these items were similar to the ratings that were given two years ago. Adina residents also rated five additional potential problems related to crime. About three in 10 residents felt youth crimes and vandalism as well as property crime were moderate, major, or extreme problems. while about one in 10 felt that drugs, violent crime, and hate crimes were problematic. You can see on the slide here that these ratings were largely consistent from 2023 with drugrelated crimes seeing the lone statistically significant change. Key finding number three, city services continue to be highly rated, but ratings for overall quality of drinking water have decreased since 2023. Adina residents evaluated a number of services provided by the city as well as the overall quality of city services. Between eight eight and nine and 10 residents highly rated the overall quality of city services. You can see that that's similar to previous years. While more than nine and 10 residents gave positive ratings to ambulance or emergency medical services, park maintenance, fire services, city parks and police services. Among the lowest rated uh services were land use, planning and zoning, which was rated excellent or good by just 57% of residents. Now, when compared to 2023, most service ratings were similar in 2025. However, we did see some increases observed for land use planning and zoning, sidewalk maintenance, storm drainage, and street repair. Now, about six and 10 residents uh gave excellent or good ratings to the overall drinking uh quality of drinking water. You can see that this rating has declined by 11 points since 2023, but remains similar to both national and Minnesota averages. The reliability and safety of drinking water in Adina were rated as excellent or good by at least eight and 10, while nearly three/arters provided positive evaluations to the water's odor and appearance, and almost twothirds rated the taste as excellent or good. These items all remained in line with results from 2023 even amid the overall decline in the drinking water rating. All right. Then fourth, uh, residents identify opportunities for improving housing options, especially for lower income residents and first-time home buyers. We covered the top twothirds of these tables earlier when we discussed the community characteristics. And as noted at that time, a vast majority of these characteristics received positive evaluations from residents and most of them exceeded the national and state benchmarks. However, three items scored below 60% including the variety of housing options, the availability of affordable quality housing, and the cost of living, which only received excellent or good marks from 35% of respondents. Residents were also presented with a question on housing and future development in the city. Specifically, the survey asked if there was the right amount, too much, or too little housing for different groups of people. Overall, a majority of residents felt there was too little housing for lower income singles and lower income families, 61% and 66%. That's shown there in the pink shaded bars on the bottom two rows. Slightly fewer residents felt the same about housing availability for middle-income families and for middle-income singles. And then finally, residents were uh asked about future housing choices, especially their priorities. How important, if at all, do you think the city it is for the city to encourage each of the following? About threequarters of respondents said it was essential or very important for the city to encourage the preservation of small starter homes, homes with fewer rooms or amenities that are affordable for first-time buyers. Around onethird of residents prioritized medium density housing, and about 1/4 of respondents felt the city should focus on higher density development such as apartments. Compared to two years ago, all of these ratings remain consistent except for the preservation of small starter homes, which saw an eight-point increase in importance since the last survey iteration. And then fifth, and finally, residents feel the city of Adina effectively manages taxpayer money and a majority uh support uh increasing tax revenue to preserve current service levels. So in 2025, residents were asked whether they had agreed or disagreed with four statements that related to Adina's management of public finances, specifically regarding taxation and public services. In uh or about seven and 10 respondents strongly or somewhat agreed that the city effectively manages taxpayer money. Meanwhile, six and 10 agreed that the city should raise taxes annually in small increments to cover the rising cost of services, while just three in 10 residents supported reducing public services to avoid future tax increases. Residents were also asked about their current level of satisfaction with municipal taxes and services. uh about half of respondents reported being satisfied with the current level of municipal taxes while one in four respondents uh respondents felt that they paid too much for the services they received. So the survey results suggest that a majority of Adina residents recognize the financial pressures inflation places on maintaining public services. Specifically, six and 10 respondents favored increasing tax revenue to preserve current service levels, indicating a general willingness to support additional funding if it helps to sustain the quality and availability of current city services. So once more, here is a summary of the key findings developed by our survey research and data science teams. First and foremost, Adina residents continue to enjoy a high quality of life. Second, ratings for safety continue to receive high marks from residents. Third, city services continue to be highly rated, but we had the decline in drinking water uh since 2023. Fourth, residents identify opportunities for improving housing options and especially focus on lower income and first-time home buyers. And fifth, residents feel that the city effectively manages taxpayer money. And a majority do support increasing tax revenue to preserve city services. All right. So, with that, uh, I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have about the process, about the report, or about the presentation that we just went through. Uh, thank you so much for your time, >> hour and a half earlier at our city council work session to go over this uh, information in more detail. Let me turn now to my colleagues to see if anybody has uh, any questions for you at this point in time. member. Um, >> actually this is more for manager Neil. I am wondering ho how residents can access this survey. It's in the work session packet. It's not in the council packet. Is it online on the city? >> It will be online. I'm not sure when we'll have it up, but we have uh posted all of our other surveys online in their entirety. So, people have the ability to see not just the presentation, but also the data as well. >> So, if you want to read that 248 report, you will be able to do that. >> It's really interesting stuff. >> You can find it on the website later this week under information for residents under the about tab of the city's website. And Director Benerro, to the extent any of us want a hard copy, some of us that are older, that are more tactile, I'd like a hard copy of it, please. >> I can make that happen for you. >> Okay. Thank you. Anybody else wants a hard copy? Let uh let Director Benrod know. I'm going to turn now to member Pierce. >> Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Um Mr. Newer, thanks again for um the thorough presentation. Um I think it's really important if um and you talked about this in the beginning of your presentation uh but it would be great to just call out those aspects of how you ensure that the information that we get is statistically uh sound especially given that your organization has done the survey for the last eight cycles. >> Yeah, thank you for that question. Um so the validity of any probabilistic survey like this is all based on the sampling that we do. So all households within Adina had a known probability of being selected as part of this. Uh and that allows us to calculate that margin of error that we shared. So we can be confident uh that 95 out of a 100 times if this was repeated under similar conditions our results would be within plus or minus 5%. uh this is the gold standard for um sampling and for survey and this is the same prob uh probabilistic style that we included and did for the last five iterations. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions for Mr. Numar or for director Benerro at this point in time? Director Benerat, we also join Mr. Numar and thanking you for leading this effort. Um uh there are general sort of surveys that can be taken and I think some cities choose to do that. We have specific issues that we want to get at because we want to keep improving the quality of life, making our town a better and better place every day. So, uh, and you were foresightful enough to know what some of those issues were and and ask, uh, Mr. Numeare and PCO to make sure they address those issues in the survey, and I thank you for that. >> It's my pleasure. >> We all thank you for that. So, all right, let's move on now to the um, that completes that portion of the agenda. Um we've got one public hearing matter this evening and um uh for those that are with us uh during COVID and postcoid we've been handling public hearings in a little different manner for the most part. uh some of the more routine matters, we may make a decision the same night as a public hearing, but uh in this case and in most cases now, we've been deferring that decision to the following meeting so cons council members have a little bit more time for thought based on the uh testimony that they've heard and the information that's been supplied by our residents. We also give our residents a little bit of additional time based on the public hearing this evening to be able to write in and and supplement any comments they have or or create new comments for us. Uh and then we'll take the matter up at our uh if we follow the advice of our staff, we'll take it up at our next council meeting, which will be on August 19th. So, um I'm now going to turn to Emily Del Rimpmple, our assistant city planner. And we've got a we've got a quite a representative group here from the automobile manufacturer Rivian. Uh you've got we've got Hannah. Why don't you folks just stand up quickly when I mention your name? Hannah with design manager Rivian. Samuel Moon, regional development lead for Rivian. Uh Matt McAdoo, the lead specialist on safety operations and manufacturing at Rivian. And uh Madison Grathhouse, senior architect for Restark Design Studio. Thank you for being here. And then I think we have somebody available online as well, Kevin Felner, senior lead real estate and commercial facilities. Um we welcome you too, Mr. Felner, if you are indeed there. So, um, that saves Miss Del Rebel the challenge of introducing all these folks from from Rivian, and we'll have you introduce yourselves again when you come up to to speak, uh, about your notion here at the Galleria. We'll let our staff make their presentation first. And, Miss Del Rimple, did you indicate to the folks from Rivian, the applicant, how much time they would have to make their presentation? >> Yes. Similar to >> around 10 10 15 minutes. Okay. All right. Very good. Go ahead. >> All right. Um, thank you, mayor, members of the council. Um, Rivian, an electric vehicle company, is proposing to occupy tenant space at the Galleria Mall at 3510 Galleria. A small vehicle showroom about 3200 square feet would be located within the mall. Additionally, up to six vehicles would be available for test drives and would be stored within existing parking parking areas at the mall. Customers could place an order for new vehicles on site. However, for sale vehicle inventory would not be stored at the property and purchased vehicles would be shipped directly to the customer. The subject property is zoned PCD3 and as guided in the comprehensive plan as community activity center. The PCD3 zoning district lists automobiles or automobile agencies selling new unused vehicles as conditionally permitted uses. A conditionally permitted use is a land use that the city allows in a zoning district when the applicant meets certain standards as laid out in the city zoning code. The proposed tenant space is located on the west side of the Galleria. Within the space, the applicant is showing that they will have a couple vehicles on display, some seating areas, a few retail racks, break room, and office space. The project will also include some interior changes to the storefront within the Galleria Mall. And other than tenant signage and two new EV chargers, no changes are proposed to the exterior of the building. The applicant is showing the location of where the test drive vehicles will be parked on site. Two of the parking spots that are um will be available for the Rivian vehicles are on grade and four of the four spots are under the mall. There are currently four EV charging stations and it's the intent of the owner or the applicant that two of those existing chargers would be converted to Rivian chargers and two additional EV chargers would be added. The applicant has also provided some um visual examples of southern or similar showrooms that they have currently in this one's in Adventura, Florida in New York and also in California. So, the reason the application is in front of you tonight is for a conditional use permit for the Automobile Agency, which is a conditional use in the PCD3 zoning district. The code doesn't distinguish this type of use from a trai traditional car dealership and therefore a conditional use permit is required. The pyramid of discretion is in front of you here and the conditional use permits are in yellow and are limited to guidance that is within the zoning ordinance and within the conditional use permit criteria. There are not specific use standards for automobile agencies that are outlined in the code, but the council must find that certain conditions be met to grant a conditional use permit. Those conditions are that the establishment, maintenance, and operation of the use does not have an undue adverse impact on facilities, utilities, or services. Will generate traffic that's within the capacity of the street serving the property. Does not have an adverse undue impact on public health, safety, or welfare. will not impede the normal and orderly development and improvement of other property within the vicinity, conforms to applicable restrictions and special conditions of the district which it's located, and is consistent with the comprehensive plan. staff outlined some findings that within a showroom um within a showroom of 3200 square feet and just six vehicles that are available for test drives, the scale of the proposed use is very small and is not likely to have any noticeable impact on government facilities, utilities, services, or any of the existing proposed improvements. um those existing prop improvements would be similar or not very different from any of the other retail tenants within the Galleria Mall. Given the scale of the proposed use, there would not be any noticeable difference in traffic than there would be for any other retail tenant and there is adequate capacity on adjacent roads to support the proposed use. Uh the use will not have an undue adverse impact on public health, safety or welfare. The use will have no impact on the normal and orderly development and improvement on other property within the vicinity. And the use conforms to the applicable restrictions and special conditions of the planned commercial district zoning district. And um since the proposed use would provide education and greater access to electric vehicles that would support EV adoption, staff finds the proposed use is consistent with the goals of the comprehensive plan. The planning commission re um held a public hearing on July 23rd and recommended approval with an 8 to1 vote of the conditional use permit with the conditions that are outlined in the staff report. Um and with that, um tonight, council has asked to hold the in-person public hearing and close the public input at noon on Sunday, August 10th, and continue action to the August 19th city council meeting. Um, as Mayor Havland introduced, there are applicant representatives here tonight from Rivian. And Dave E- Miller, the um, fire marshall, is also here to answer any questions the city council might have. >> All right. Very good. Uh, and was there a staff recommendation here as well? >> To approve. >> To approve. Okay. All right. Uh, do we want to hear any of the concerns of the fire marshal or his comments before we proceed with the applicant or what what would you prefer? Do you have specific questions for the fire marshall? >> Um, not at this point in time. Okay. >> All right. Yeah, member Risser may have one. >> Um, I do think just in terms of us understanding everything, it would be helpful for us to and the public to hear what the fire marshall's concerns are or what, you know, he is recommending for this project before we hear from the developer. >> Yeah. Why don't you come forward and we'll expecting Rivian will be prepared to address these concerns that were raised. >> Mr. Mayor, council members, appreciate you allowing me to speak tonight um to you. Uh my name is Dave Miller. I am your foreign marshal here in Edina. Um, I do have some initial concerns uh over uh an EV showroom going inside a space such as uh the Galleria Mall. Uh, we don't currently have that I can identify in Minnesota EV showrooms that exist in any indoor malls at this time. Uh, so this would be kind of a a first of its kind here in Minnesota. Um we know that uh the current data that's out there um shows that the frequency of EV uh fires is relatively low. Uh that compared to um normal or traditional internal combustion uh vehicles. Uh but it is a hazard that we would be introducing to a space that doesn't currently have that hazard. Um the Gallery Mall does currently have chargers in that underground uh parking space that does exist uh right now. Uh those went in a number of years ago and they haven't had any incidents uh thus far. Um but um fire code is or code in general is slow to adapt. Uh we're working currently out of the 2018 fire code. or a number of years behind and often times uh code is reactive uh not proactive when it comes to incidents. So it tends to change because there is a pattern of of issues. Um so uh the recommend recommendations that I provided uh mainly uh three of them uh one including an upgraded sprinkler system in the tenant space um that would allow for more water output of the sprinklers in that area if there was a fire uh due to those uh that increased hazard that's being brought into the space uh that doesn't currently exist. Um the fire protection engineer that was hired by Rivian did also recommend this uh in their uh review of the space. Uh the other uh recommendation I had was placement of the vehicles and placement for uh response sake if you will. Uh the thing with electric vehicles versus uh traditional vehicles is that the fire the hazards are different than we traditionally uh are exposed to on those uh fires. And that is that a traditional uh internal combustion engine, we can put those fires out pretty quickly and we can walk away from them without uh risk of reignition. Typically uh with the EV fires, what we're tending to find is that with that stored energy in those batteries that those incidents tend to last uh not minutes like uh traditional vehicles, but hours and in some instances weeks where um that uh they'll reignite later in a junkyard. So, uh, the tactics that we end up having to employ to fight those fires, uh, isn't, uh, having that sprinkler system put the fire out, which typically would happen in most scenarios, but the batteries are under the car, so that water isn't being applied to the batteries from the sprinkler system. Uh, the system is just containing the fire from spreading to other parts of the building, right? Um, and so, uh, with that, the sprinkler system would be helpful, but we have to bring those cars out of those spaces to either let them continue to, uh, enter into thermal runaway or propagate until the um, the energy is expelled or we have to manipulate the car in a way that we can actually apply the water uh to where it needs to be cooled, which is the underside of the car, which isn't uh, very accessible to us. So, uh, sprinklers are one thing. Uh, location of those vehicles nearest exits would be ideal or having that sprinkler system at least present to help control the fire. So, when we do get in there, we have some time to, uh, remove those vehicles uh to a safe place away from the building uh to slow uh further damage. Um that recommendation of placement also had uh a an exterior door into the tenant space which would allow easier extra extraction of that car or those showroom cars if they did uh end up in an event. Um this I would imagine would also provide an easier way for those cars to be brought into the mall on that uh quarterly basis that they're expecting to be uh exchanging these cars. Uh and then my third recommendation is um a recommendation that Rivian also agreed with which was the 30% uh max charge of those batteries that are going to be in the showroom itself. So um there's a FM global data sheet that noted uh batteries that are in a charge state of 0 to 30% um are are in a state that is hard to get into thermal runaway which is kind of our big concern as uh the fire service. So, uh, keeping it there and being able to regulate that would be, uh, useful on our end. So, new hazards to the space that don't currently exist. Um, and and it's a different hazard, right? It's a longer term hazard for if the event actually does occur that we end up having to take lots of time to try and figure out how to drag a car either through the mall or out a garage door that might be out that uh, exterior wall of the mall. So, uh, those are my concerns and kind of the the reasoning for them. >> Okay, good. Well articulated. Members, >> just one follow-up question. When the EV chargers were allowed to go into that lower level space, um, was there analysis by you about whether cars could be p are they accessible with fire? Could you pull them out? >> Where they are currently located, it's on the west lower wall of the galleria. Um some of them are line in line with the aisles of the um the parking rows. So those might be relatively easy to get out of there. Uh the other option for that space would be to extend the sprinkler system that O2 that I talked about out into cover those eight eight charging spaces. It would provide then the Galleria chargers that appropriate coverage to reduce it. Um and also uh give us time, right? It's it's all about time for us. um slowing the fire spread. Uh the new code we will be adapting in 2026, the 24 edition will be uh does include some sprinkler uh changes for parking structures similar to the Galleras right now where uh that uh a sprinkler system a full sprinkler system for the whole structure uh would be required. So >> go ahead. >> Final question. Um, I've noticed other places when they put in their EV chargers, they tend to be kind of at the periphery of parking lots. You see grocery stores with that. We did not do that here at city hall. We didn't model that. And I'm just kind of wondering, you know, is pulling the chargers away from the building something that would be advisable. >> So, um, it kind of goes into the the level of charge, right? Charging is one of the hazards of EV batteries and the causes one of the causes of those fires. Uh the greater hazard would be level three chargers which are the fast charges. So um if those are further away from the building, even the ones we have here are far enough away that I wouldn't be worried about the building itself uh being involved in that. It would just be smoke mitigation and that sort of thing. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> that prompt any other question. Member Pierce, >> I just had a a question. You just covered the parking um structures. Uh but if we go back to the showroom, um the just looking at the rendering, it seemed like the two vehicles would be um on a typical um structure that's elevated. Um at least that's what it looked like to me. And so my question if the the issue is the batteries are underneath the vehicle. Um why we wouldn't try to deploy some kind of suppression system underneath the vehicle whether it's misting or um you know some type of foam um and still have it be triggered just like the the standard system would be. It seems like we'd be able to do that. That is one of the techniques that uh is being tried out uh around the world really uh as this problem is is kind of everywhere. So um yeah, sprinklers that are applied from the underside misting systems uh there is uh firefighting apparatus that I've seen out there that are kind of rollunder sprinklers that you could attach to a fire hose uh that sort of thing. So um options are there. Yes, absolutely. So >> certainly wouldn't be against doing something a little bit more progressive. Um maybe you recommend we should do both. I don't know. But I was just curious if you had any experience with those types of systems because I I have read that they do exist. >> Uh I have not personally been involved in them, but I have seen them out there as well. >> Thank you. Um these recommendations also uh the locations of them and the O2 are recommendations that I provide to any new building that's going into town uh that plans on having EV chargers in there. Right. The code doesn't dictate EV chargers right now. I'm not even uh usually brought into the picture when they when people are putting them in. State uh inspectors are involved in that. Um but uh thus far I've had good luck with uh new buildings, our new apartment buildings that are doing it. uh they're all willing to put the vehicles nearest the exit and upgrade those systems to O2 knowing that that code change is coming. So >> a rejection. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have a question for Miss Del Rimple. Um, so if we um how do we ensure that um Rivian only has six cars to test drive at any one time, who would enforce that? >> Well, it's a conditional the a condition of the conditional use permit. So, if there are concerns, we can go out and take a look at how many vehicles are stored on site. >> Okay. So, that'd be a reported sort of thing. And then similarly, if we were to put conditions about um fire safety um for for instance, keeping the charge at only 30%, how would that be enforced? >> Uh right now, we currently require permits for buildings on display inside of building uh vehicles on display inside of buildings such as uh South Mall occasionally. uh I haven't done it in a while, but they'll bring vehicles in and they get permitted so we can ensure that the the standards are being uh met that we that we are asking for. >> So you would check periodically. >> Yeah, I think uh I think a permit uh for every time they swap cards would be reasonable for us to go in and just ensure that the program the way they're saying they're programming them uh to that max state of charge of 30% and um that they're meeting those requirements. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, just to be clear, you had three recommendations, and on two of the three recommendations, the upgraded sprinkler system and the 30% max charge uh for the cars in the showroom were uh conditions that the fire protection engineer that Rivian hired to work with you uh acknowledged and recommended as well. Yes, the uh the fire protection engineer actually recommended a different uh percentage but after my conversation with him uh he he directed me to that FM global data sheet that suggestes that suggests a 30% which Rivian is uh in our meeting that's the number they produced to me was 30%. Yeah. And that that's a level at which uh it I don't know if it prohibits thermal runway but it >> impeded. Yes. Difficult to enter into thermal runaway below 30%. >> Okay. >> So reduces that risk a little bit. Right. We're adding risk but trying to reduce it the best we can. And and as people and maybe Rivian will answer this question too, but uh as people come in and sit in the cars and want to look at the computer systems and the electricity is used, you know, the air conditioning is running or the heater's running. Uh how do they get back in that space to a 30% charge? >> I'm sure they will address that as well, but they uh from what I understand, they're planning on using a trickle charge. So, a relatively low amount of power being applied to those batteries uh until they reach their their max state of charge that they'll set. >> And what I what I kind of inferred from what you said is that if you're at level one, level or level two charging, you're really not so concerned about charging at that level. It's a it's a high-speed charge at level three. >> It just it brings a new uh a new challenge in in play when you're when you're packing that energy in fast, right? It just allows for more opportunities for uh failure points. So, >> yes. >> Um that's just interesting to me. I if the cars are elevated for showroom purposes, and this is a question for Rivian probably. I don't even know why you need to charge them like why you just couldn't. Um and I'll say it this way. I didn't know if this is possible from an engineering perspective, but it's plugged in just like any other light in the showroom. So that the features of the car, people can come in and the lights come on and all of that works, but there's actually no batteries that could catch fire in the vehicle in the showroom. And then if people want to do a test drive and see the full functionality, then they go out and they take one uh for a spin. So just curious, and you probably know the answer to that, why why we would charge the vehicles to begin with if they're inside and won't be driven. >> For the most part, >> I did pose that question initially. Uh, is there an option of having just show test vehicles that don't have the full capacity batteries in there? Uh, and it didn't sound like that's something they do at this time. So, >> good. Thank you. Stand by. There may be more questions. So, >> sounds good. Thank you. >> Delo as well. And Rivian team, you want to come on up? I don't know uh how you want to make your presentation and please when you do whoever is coming up to present a portion of it or whether you're maybe you'll be doing the same the entire presentation Mr. Moon, >> they'll be they'll be our team. >> Your team. Okay. And just have just make sure you identify yourselves as you come up just for the record. And then the first presenter can give Are you all coming out of the same uh location in California? >> Coming out of >> That's my my >> Why don't you give your when you get up to speak, why don't you give your name and your work address? >> Sure. >> Okay. So, we have that for the record. Mayor, members of the council and staff. Uh my name is Sam. I'm uh from California, Irvine. Uh 14, if you need the exact address, I'm sorry. Uh 14400 Mford Road, Irvine. That's where one of our headquarters is located at. >> And your your full name, too, for the record. >> Yeah. Samuel Moon. Thank you. Representing Rivian uh this evening. >> Well, again, good evening, mayor and members of the council and staff. Um, my name is Sam and I'm here with my my Rivian colleagues today to share a little bit more about Rivian and our excitement uh to have our retail presence here in the great community of Adina. Rivian is an automotive uh American manufacturer founded in 2009 with the goal of helping to accelerate the global transition to zero emissions transportation. We design, build, and sell electric vehicles along with the software and services that support them. Our vehicles are proudly assembled right here in the United States. Uh we do have a few different models here as you can see in your presentation uh that are currently on the road. So the R1T which is our flagship uh pickup truck, the R1S, our flagship SUV, and then the Rivian uh commercial van or RCV, which we use to electrify delivery fleets for our commercial customers. Our products are sold directly to both individual consumers and commercial clients. And we're also looking to the future with our next generation vehicles. What you see here, we have the R2, which is a midsize platform coming in 2026 of next year, which will be followed by the highly anticipated R3 and the R3X. At a glance, we have currently uh opened 34 retail sites today across the United States that are within malls, outdoor lifestyle centers, and standalone retail, which we'll briefly showcase in our presentation. So, thank you again for your time, and now I'll pass the presentation over to my colleague Henu, who will briefly discuss about the program of our showrooms. >> All right. Thanks, Mr. Moon. Excuse me. Uh, good evening. My name is Hannah Woo. Um, I am also based out of Irvine and I am the design manager uh at Rivian. Um, and I'll be walking you through our program. Uh, so our sales program uh is comprised of five focuses. One is vehicle education, tactile tools to configure, educational digital touch points, community spaces and gear shop and demonstration drives. Um, as Sam mentioned, we have 34 uh locations opened in the United States and Canada. Uh, this one is White Plains and it's it's pretty similar to what we're proposing in Adina. Um, we have our vehicle displays here which are static displays. Um they're just open for customers to come in, enjoy our vehicles, uh climb inside and touch and feel uh what we have to offer. Uh next we have tactile tools uh for configuration. So customers can come in, take a paint palette, um a a tire with uh our rim fit outs and just roll them into our vehicle and u just imagine their future Rivian uh in in real time. Next we have educational touch points where uh customers can come and uh learn about EV ownership and charging uh to planning your next adventure. Next we have community spaces we which we always provide in our spaces for customers to come in with their families uh enjoy books uh and also any kid-friendly activities. Lastly, we have demonstration drives for uh those who want to experience our vehicles uh in person. Uh and a Rivian employee will always be accompanying uh the test drive. >> All right, I will hand over the mic to my colleague Matt McAdoo. >> Thank you, Miss Vu. Mr. Mcadoo, welcome. Thank you, mayor. Uh, good evening, mayor, council members. Again, Matt McAdoo. Um, I'm based out of the Houston, Texas commercial location, supporting Caribbean's commercial spaces. So, speaking to you a little bit about fire safety. So, uh, each one of our vehicles is equipped with a battery management system or BMS, um, which, uh, essentially is designed to monitor properties of the battery pack in individual cells. And the BMS utilizes data to proactively identify safety issues um and enhance battery performance. Based on inputs such as temperature, resistance, voltage, and state of charge, the BMS can activate um contactors to isolate the system or control thermal regulation. With that said, um essentially the BMS um is capable of detecting inputs and even damage to diagnose um the state of and the health of the pack um and ensure that it's in a safe space. Secondly, thermal runaway. Um a thermal event or runaway um of a battery pack on a vehicle, specifically a static display vehicle, um is extremely unlikely um because this typically requires the presence of um you know extreme conditions such as mechanical impact damage uh think collisions or puncture of the pack um or high voltage testing or charging which won't be taking place here. So again, stationary vehicles at a low state of charge um pose a negligible risk of thermal runaway. >> Do you have some data to support that last one, Mr. that last statement on that second column? >> Yes sir. As far as the thermal statistics that stationary vehic vehicles in a low state of charge >> pose a negligible risk of thermal runway runaway there. You must have based that statement on some >> testing or factual information that you had. >> Yes, sir. So, um >> and you don't have to give it to me now, but make sure that we have it before the council decides on the 19th. >> Okay. Yes, sir. Sounds good. >> So, speaking on the low state of charge or the 30% or lower SOC, um charging a vehicle poses a low risk of uh initiating a thermal event. Why? Um again going back to the battery management system um as an engineered control this system prevents the charging of a system with faults or early indicators of battery anomaly. Um the site will also implement um something that would be an administrative control which is keeping those display vehicles at a maximum of 30% state of charge. Both vehicles will be charged again using a Rivian portable trickle charger which um really is similar to someone you know charging their phone or a laptop. With that um I'd like to note that the charger on the vehicle itself and the charging cable both have their own diagnostics that can stop a charging session if faults are detected. Um and so that's also an additional um you know safe piece of mind there. And then fire suppression. So um as mentioned earlier, the vehicles do not pose a greater fire risk than an internal combustion engine. Um in the unlikely event of a fire in our space, Rivian team members will follow their emergency response plans that they are trained to. Um they will safely evacuate the space and knowing that the best medium um for response to an electric vehicle fire is water. uh the facility space um will be sprinkler to local fire code and at an O2 level which essentially supplies more water um to the space per the fire department's recommendation. Um and lastly get into some of the resources that we have to support um our vehicles. You know, Rivian will work with local fire departments, police, and emergency responders to prioritize safety um with Rivian vehicles in emergency situations. Um and to aid with that, Rivian has published multiple emergency response guides um for each vehicle model that guides safe activity around the vehicles um in the safe rescue of you know passengers um found on Rivian's public facing site as well as the National Fire Protection Agency um or NFPA's website. Um with that, so I'll wrap up. Um, just want to re-emphasize these intentional, you know, engineering, administrative controls that'll be in place, um, that are available to the public, to local, um, first responders and designed into our vehicles. Really just our testament as to how important safety is um, to Rivian. So, I'll pass it over to Madison. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Madu. >> Good evening. My name is Madison Grodhouse. I'm with Restarch Design Studio out of Cincinnati, Ohio. And we are the architect of record for this specific site as well as a number of other Rivian sites that we've worked on. I'm going to dig a little bit further deeper into the the specifics of our design intent here. Um for the site, we are located on the west side of the property. On the street level, there will be two dedicated Rivian parking stalls. Those will not be EV charging. Um you can kind of see that in in this highlighted section here. Um and then at the lower at the garage level um we will be replacing the four existing chargers. I know Galleria is in is planning to provide some additional chargers but that is not a part of uh this particular uh conditional use application. Um so currently where um a few photos just on kind of where those chargers exist right now. Um and then these these are the back of our space. Um the red line indicates kind of where that demising wall is where the boundaries of our space are. Our floor plan, as you can see, very minimal footprint. Um this is not your typical car dealership. Um we've like we've mentioned 3200 square ft. Um the showroom is mostly centered around vehicle education. It has digital and interactive wall displays. um a lot of really good programming that Hannah had mentioned earlier as well. Um the finishes inside, as you could tell from the previous um Aventura sites and and White Plains, New York site, very warm, minimal um kind of natural inspired modern finishes. Um the rest of our space has that back of house uh with an employee restroom and a small office um with the uh this back door then goes directly to um this back area here as well. And that's all we've got. >> Let's go. I'll hold on just a moment. You know on the uh on the on the illustrations you had the elevations for White Plains, New York and Aventura, Florida. You showed the distance it was uh to the nearest exit. Aventur 70 feet, white planes 344 feet to the exit. Um, and you can see that both those are set up in a way where the it looks like you can get vehicles in and out fairly easily, but but I can't quite get the visualization of your of your rendering on the uh on the drawing that you provided in terms of, you know, how far is it how far is it to the nearest exit and how do you get the cars in and out of that space? What what do we what are we doing there? What how does that work? So, our storefront is is widened to to be 8 feet max. Um, I believe it's just under that for the car width. Um, and then, uh, the mall is actually planning to, uh, widen the storefront as well from for the nearest exit. I don't have that. Um, do you have that measurement? This this exit. >> So, will it look more like white planes? >> Correct. >> Where it looks like almost like a a welcoming garage door in a way. >> You mean you got a big wide opening and it's kind of beckoning people in. It's still two double doors, but yes, it's they're very they're very wide and large, >> but not not like Aventura. >> Correct. It'd be closer to white planes. Yes. >> Closer to white planes. >> Yes. >> Let's go glass in front and then the ability to get vehicles in and out through a space that's wide enough to get them in and out. Obviously. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Okay. Just thinking about speed on getting them out. >> Yeah. You know, how if we have a if we had in a remote circumstance where you had a problem, >> how fast can you get them out of there and where do they go and how far do they have to go to get out of the mall? >> Sure. Riv can speak more to options on on how to drive in and out of these spaces with their vehicles. >> Mr. Mayor, did you mean in case there was a fire? >> Yeah. In the remote event there was a fire. >> Yeah. So, and then to answer his question and then add to that, just describe how you would actually do that. >> Yeah, if I can just uh describe how we uh get the vehicles in and out in the um in the site layout here, there's a sorry you guys you'll have to squint just a little bit, but in the route in red is is our path of travel of getting the vehicles in and out uh of the space. Um, and so typically with all the other stores as well, we would um have our our staff take the vehicles through the corridor of the mall and into our space. And so with the the intent of widening the doors or the the the elevation of the storefront is for that ease of access there. And then as Madison has mentioned earlier as well, the landlord's committed us to widening the entry of the uh of the mall for that uh quick access for the vehicles to go in and out. >> Go ahead. >> But if it's on fire >> and we need to remove it, I understand. I think you were saying you would follow the same path, but but how do you physically do that because you're not driving the car if it's on fire? Yeah. So I think the the fire measures that uh Matt had mentioned uh or just really needs to be emphasized as for fire safety and I think the the ability to uh have the BMS system so so that if in an event uh that it can be signaled if there is an issue with with the battery. Um and then the low state of charge these are all kind of risk mitigations in the case of a fire vent. And so if the vehicle, however, is is caught on fire, I think that's what we just need to continue to work with the fire department with. >> We just go back to your I'll call it a site plan, but your your floor plan there. Now, I do see in the corner it says 220 ft to the nearest exit. >> Um, as I look at the at the Yes. >> Yeah. Where's the your hub floor? You go down a little bit further, >> please. Yeah. So you've got this this is helpful. Um so what's presently shown as number one is where the cars would come in and out that that narrow opening widened I guess to it doesn't look like it would even accommodate a car. >> It would Yeah. But it strikes me that in the name of safety that this this space of 3,200 plus square feet could be reconfigured because you have an outside wall. That you could reconfigure this in a way where you move these offices off to the side and you had a you had a back door right there to the outside. You almost had like a garage door back there or you could make it a glass door and people could see it from outside. They could see you could have a ribbon sitting there facing out so that if there were in the remote event there were a fire, you're just dragging it 50 ft and going out a garage door and right now you've got your offices blocking up your closest exit to the build to the building out of the building. Yeah, >> it seems to me like a good architect like you've got could figure that out. You don't need much of an office anyway in this environment. >> So, I don't know. >> Yeah, thank you, mayor. We've uh we've have considered uh the fire marshall's consideration in that. Um and we've greatly respected the decision as well. Uh look thoroughly through the design. Um, but like the one the programming of how our our floor plan is set up is is very standardized throughout our retail stores because there is a science behind the way that the customers interact with the displays, the the uh the vehicle education, the touch points and how the vehicles are carefully placed at the showroom. Um, and then the back of house being kind of where all the the workers are currently working. um the implications of >> I'm not suggesting at all that you change the configuration of how the cars are displayed in the front. I'm suggesting that you fix the back end of it so that you can get out of the building right away in the remote event there was a fire instead of somebody trying to figure out how to drag it down a narrow highway narrow hallway and out the front door of your of your space because the idea is really a good one. I've seen it down in, you know, I mean, there isn't one there anymore, but in Miami Beach on Lincoln Road, they had a Tesla dealer. >> Uh, and uh, it was all glassed in and people were in and out of there. It was busy. I think this would be really kind of an interesting aspect of a a mall operation. >> I I >> But we got to think about what could be the worst possible scenario and keep people safe, keep you safe. >> Absolutely. It it doesn't strike me that it would be that hard to modify the architectural footprint here to be able to go out the back dragging a car straight out and modify your modify your plan a little bit. It would it would constrain our space. And then just to note that the the rear entry of where our store is currently located would have to do some significant uh modifications to the existing. So there's a transformer out there from the utility company as well as the tree as well as an existing light uh light post as well. And then we just would also have to maintain the path of the vehicle that would then uh compromise the the back of house um to get the vehicle out of the uh out directly out into the street. So, mayor, these were considerations definitely um that we've reviewed thoroughly. Um and so I just but I just want to stress the the importance of safety um as well as well as the the opportunity that Rivian has here in this community spec specifically in the Galleria. Okay. Um, >> um, I I do want to say that I really, um, hear what you're saying about safety and just needing to have a way to get the vehicles out. That is much easier than dragging them through the galleria. I think that's a problem. The other thing, you know, on a regular basis, if the cars are going to be coming in through the galleria, you know, and I'm online trying to figure out, I should know this because I walk the Galleria all the time, but the flooring changes quite a bit. And, you know, these are heavy vehicles. What are they going to do if they are, you know, routinely going on a wood surface or whatever it is that's down there now? So that's a less dramatic concern, but I do really think that fire safety is important. Um, so there's that. >> Yeah, I would think Galleria has given that consideration, that concern, which is a legitimate one. Is that what's the impact on their floors of hauling? How much does a Rivian weigh? What's the heaviest Rivian? 6,000 lbs. >> They're roughly 7,500, too. >> 7,500 lb for the SUV. Yeah. Um, Council Member Jackson and Council Member Pierce. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, part the you've talked about the fire safety of the vehicles themselves. What happens to an electric vehicle if some if the neighboring store catches on fire. What's the fire risk of of the the vehicles if there's a fire in the mall and and these uh cars are in there? Matt, would you like to >> maybe a fire marshal question? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, that's a great question. >> Mr. Mcado, you want to be a fire marshal, too? >> No, that's a great question. Um, I I really couldn't answer that confidently. Okay. Um because I think you know when we're talking about having to pull it out 200 feet >> uh you can monitor all you want but you can't control your neighbors. So I I'd be interested if if you have anything that you can provide with us between now and the next meeting just about generally the risk of of electric vehicles um what if they're s exposed to fire. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah, we can definitely propose or bring that before the next uh decision, but I believe the walls uh we can see if that the if the walls has a a rating in itself as a fire rating um along with the with the surrounding surfaces as well. >> I suspect our fire marshall knows what the suppression strategies are in the rest of the mall and how quickly they can put out a fire in a conventional retail space. So, I don't know if you want to come up and com comment on that whether that's a risk or not, but it's a it's a fair question. >> Fair. >> Uh, yeah, honestly, being that it's a sprinkled space, uh, it's probably not a great hazard unless, uh, the fire developed enough and overran the sprinkler system. Um, yes, fire is a hazard to the batteries because what, uh, can happen is that as the batteries are heated up, they'll end up in thermal runaway as well. So if that fire gets big enough, yes, it could um it could have an effect on those batteries starting an incident that would increase the duration and intensity of a regular incident at the mall, >> but the sprinkler system reduces the risk of that considerably >> in general. Yes. Uh sprinkler systems uh do a very good job. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Well, with this um 30% maximum charge where our fire marshall back up here again, please with the uh 30% maximum charge that you recommended and that the fire protection engineer for Rivian recommended are I mean, are we sitting up here worrying about not much of anything? You know, we we other people have risks of fire. I mean, it's they're obviously more safe than an old uh lead acid battery internal combustion powered car. We know that from looking at data, at least that's what I found today from looking at data. >> Yes. Uh the risks are relatively minimal, right? Uh but my concern is when we add a new risk to an area that didn't have this risk to begin with, right? Uh if you think about the space we're in right now, this commercial building, city hall, the likelihood of city hall starting on fire is very low. But I don't make recommendations of reducing fire protection in this space. Right. So, kind of like you said before, I'm I have to look at the worst case scenario because that's the day that I arrive, right? I arrived to put those fires out that weren't uh designed to start in the first place. Uh the mall being an older building didn't have uh EV vehicles in mind when it was constructed. So, building codes uh were slightly different. Fire protection standards weren't there. So, it's just trying to come up with that balanced approach as to what we can do to try and be as safe as we can and uh uh bring this opportunity to the area. So, uh do I think it's possible? I do think it's possible, but >> but not probable. >> Fires. >> Yep. There's a low likelihood of a fire in any of these spaces, right? >> I mean, to the point of introducing a risk that wasn't there before, don't we do that every year with the flower show? We absolutely do and we take a lot of precautions around that one. So, >> yeah, I we we load up we let them load up all the aisleways with flowers and impede movements of people. >> This is true. Uh we do have a lot of safeguards in place that go along with the flower show. So, >> yeah. >> Member Pierce, don't leave. >> No. Um, so I mean this is a public hearing and so I just want to level set what you guys are hearing from us is we actually don't want to back down and just say well it's a minimal risk so it's okay. You've heard at least three ideas that we think could reduce that risk even more. So whether it's 5% or 2% risk, we would like to hear when you come back, well, all right, here are some ways that we think we could further reduce that risk. And we're not experts, right? So my next question was going to be, I think Arian has something like 7,000 sales in it. Well, so the cars in the showroom, are they going to have 7,000 sales as well? if they have fewer cells that min minimizes further the risk of a cell catching on fire and so I would um encourage you um Marshall don't back down that's your job is to say yeah we're introducing a risk and we need to find a way to mitigate that risk you gave three ways to do that we gave two more um and so I think that's a a lot of feedback for the team to go back and think through um to see if there are other ways to further reduce the risk and that that's what you're you're hearing from us and I think it's the right message frankly. >> You know, you think about remote risk. I there's a guy I know he's oh he's going to celebrate his 88th birthday. Well, he lives in Florida in the winter time and he got a call the other day from his neighbor and his golf cart in his garage with his lithium ion battery burst into flame and burned his garage down. So, I mean, stuff can happen that you don't ever expect would happen. He I don't even know if he had it connected to anything. You know, I don't think he was keeping it on a trickle charger or anything. So, but if we had a thermal runaway fire in a mall where you were trying to drag a car out 250 ft under intense heat conditions and people are in there panicking because they're in there shopping and it's Christmas season, for example. We got to think this through all of us carefully. You know, you might think that's not going to happen and we think, well, it's going to happen either, but you never know. So, it's a it's a device with a huge potential for fire if anything does happen. Just like you said, I don't know what I think about it, but this is a public hearing. We're not making a decision tonight. And member Pierce gave you some really good guidance. Think about everything you hear tonight. whether it's from us or whether it's from the people who are going to testify or that that send in testimony between now and the 19th of August or whenever we do the cuto off date. So uh thank you Mr. Moon. Thank you. >> I'm happy to continue to work with Rivian uh to come up with uh the solution collaborative collaboratively on this one. So >> absolutely. >> Okay. This is a public hearing matter. Uh and um we're going to open it up for public testimony. See if anybody here in the audience wishes to testify regarding this matter, whether in favor of it or opposed to it. You'll have three minutes. Uh there's a lighting system that we use so everybody gets equal time and you'll have 30 seconds left when the yellow light goes on and then you should be thinking about wrapping up your comments. So if you would desire to testify regarding this matter, please feel free to come forward, identify yourself, give us your address for the record. So we have all of that. So anyone wish to come forward and testify? Hearing nothing. Seeing no one coming forward, uh let's move to the virtual world and see if we got anybody online that wants to testify. I don't have anyone online just yet, but because there is a brief delay in the broadcast, I'd recommend we wait about a minute before moving on, giving people um an opportunity to call in if they'd like. My clock shows that it's 8:51. I will come back to you at 8:52 or when I have a caller, whichever's first. I'm going to tell you that while we're waiting here to see if anybody comes online and I'm talking to the Rivian folks. Uh I'll talk to we'll talk to uh Hines and the ownership at Galleria about this issue. If you if you if you think it has merit about a direct access to the outside and see what they say, you probably already addressed that issue with them and probably got a negative response. But um I don't know if our staff has but we would if you think you that has a has merit and from what I've seen that your architectural firm has done other places could come up with something pretty creative if it would otherwise work with the mall operator. Okay. That time has passed. Nobody's >> It's now 8:52 and I still don't have a caller. So, um I think you are safe to move forward with the agenda. >> Okay. Um so the staff is recommending that we close the public hearing at noon on Sunday, August 10th, 2025 and then continue the action to the August 19, 2025 city council meeting. Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Jackson moves. Member Pierce seconds the motion that we close the public hearing on this matter involving Rivian's application for cadition use permit on Sunday, August 10th, 2025 and continue the action of the August 19, 2025 city council meeting. Uh any further discussion on that motion as stated? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed carried. Motion's adopted. We'll continue this matter for public input until noon on Sunday, August 10th, and then we will take it up at the August 19, 2020 25 city council meeting. Thank you to everybody from Rivian for being here to come all this distance. I don't know if you notice a difference in our smoke versus your smoke, but uh out in the atmosphere, >> there is green. >> Yeah, it is green. Yeah, we've had uh a lot of rain this summer. Looks good. Minnesota always looks good in the summer. All right, thanks for being here. >> Thank you. >> Um, okay. Now, we're going to move on to the reports and recommendations portion of the agenda. This first matter we've delayed talking about for several meetings as we tried to gather more facts and um Okay. >> Think about uh possible resolutions on this uh issue. And manager Neil, I know that you have suggested to the council that we act on the request for that tree donation at Pamela Park. before we have a discussion about are you kind of agnostic about that? >> Well, I think what we know is that it will require a unanimous vote of the council to accept the gift. If there's not a unanimous uh support for that, then we could move pretty quickly to plan B. >> Yeah, we well we Okay. Um we're going to have a we're going to have a conversation here at some point in time about what's been proposed here and I think try to keep the motion out of it to the extent that we can. I don't know if Director Veter you have any input you want to have with the council before we take the matter up. >> Uh, mayor, members of the council, um, I'm prepared to give you a brief introduction on the item if you would request that. >> Let's do that. >> Um, so those watching at home know the circumstances that you're going to be discussing this evening. um at Pamela Park, the um north end of Pamela Park. The property owners at 5805 uh when their home was being built um I believe it was in 2018 um donated 15 trees. I believe at that time it was through the uh through the builder, through their process, however it worked out um that they donated those trees at that time. Um, prior to that occurring, back in 2014, the city council adopted a a policy about accepting donations and how that could function. In 2016, that was refined a little bit further to spell out specifically for trees and memorial benches, how we work with those um with those types of donations. Um, at that time that those donations were occurred, I know there was um conversations with the city forester. There are no um um um memos or anything to that extent. It was I believe a a a conversation around uh future donations um around that. In May of 2015, those homeowners did plant six Colorado blue spruces on park property. Um that issue was brought to our attention by adjoining neighbors. Uh the city forester had a discussion at that time about removal of those trees because they had not gone through the normal donation policy which is that the city council must accept them. Um and the unanimous is I believe a a four-fifths majority vote. So um um four fifths um normally four votes tonight. It does not change based on the number of members that are seated this evening. Um at that time, um the homeowners did not want to remove those and proposed that they be considered as a retroactive donation on that site. Um that site in particular on the north end of Pamela Park is not a programmed or an active site. Um one piece of information that we do want to be clear with the city council uh this evening, if uh you're looking at your screen, it is on the north end near the entrance. Um, however, uh, the city has received a Minnesota DNR ash removal grant and we have been actively removing ash in these highlighted areas. The grant is very specific that it does require a replanting ratio. That does vary a bit whether those ash were removed in a wooded area or in a more um open or potentially considered a manicured area based on that. Um however uh we do know based on the maximum that 96 trees will be replanted in these zones um as part of that uh that grant for for um removal of ash and then replanting of species. Um city staff does not plant Colorado blue spruce. They're not a prohibited tree. However, we have found that they are highly susceptible to disease and do not function well in this climate um primarily due to humidity. So, city staff has made the decision that we do not plant them. So, if the council were to accept the donation this evening, we would request that the homeowner be responsible for the removal if those trees did succumb to disease. Um, I think the the biggest thing that we want to piece in this is that we will be replanting trees in this area. So, I know there were some concerns expressed about views into the park, blocking views. um we are going to be required to plant trees in this zone in these zones that are highlighted. So we just wanted to make sure from a city staff perspective that those residents in that area were prepared that there will be replanting >> questions for director Veter anybody. So to be clear that um we had the policy in effect on donations of trees starting in 2016. This policy was not followed with respect to this particular matter where the six Colorado spruce were planted on city property and then the the party that planted them came in and and asked to donate them after the fact without getting permission in advance. >> Correct, Mayor. The initial trees in 2018 were followed through that policy. The council did accept that donation in advance in 2018. In 2025, it was not. 2018 was a different homeowner. >> I believe it was the same homeowner. >> Homeowner. >> Yes. The council recognized the donation from the builder, but whether it's the builder or the resident, I think it's >> okay. But but the process was followed in 2018. >> Correct. >> Any other Yeah. Council member Jackson? >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, this kind of goes beyond what you just talked about, but you in your memo said that there was sort of a threephase if and or maybe that's was what um manager Neil sent us this afternoon, but a three-phase where we'd ask them to remove them. We'd ask people if they wanted to plant them in their own home could come and remove them, and then the city would be responsible for removing them if the first two options aren't taken up. Um, can you tell us kind of what the cost to the city is to remove these trees if if we get to option three? >> Yeah. Uh, thank you, mayor. Um, Council Member Jackson, I believe the city attorney can help me with the exact language, but if the donation is not accepted, um, it would basically be a trespass. I don't know if trees can technically trespass, but, um, they would be their place without, uh, city permission. So, we would require the removal. I think the perspective is to give it a reasonable amount of time. I don't know exactly what reasonable amount of time would be to um request that the homeowner transplant them or remove them um to um satisfy a reasonable request. If not, then they would um um city staff would then have to determine a method to remove them to transplant them. I believe we did receive one code. It was about $1,000 per tree, and that's if we wanted to transplant them. Obviously, a full removal um would be the the furthest extent would be a lot cheaper. I don't know the exact cost. I mean, our city staff can handle tree removal, so I don't know about the um the time that that would take to put an hourly dollar value for uh staff time and equipment on that. But I think that would be the the progression, I guess you could say, of of how this would flow. I don't know if that matches the the city manager's um comments earlier, but >> I think it does. Um uh the other question is if we remove the trees, we would would we be able to still plant in that area because I know root systems, they haven't been there that long, but root systems can make it difficult to replant trees. >> Uh Mayor, Council Jackson, I do believe we would be able to replant in that area. I don't know if we would replant in the same exact um root ball zone. Um our plan for replanting that area would be in 2026. Um as part of that grant, finish up removals and then go back to replant. So it would have to be some sort of remedy. We wouldn't want to leave a a hazardous condition um by removing a root ball. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Member Russer. Um, I have a lot of concerns about the process and the way this unfolded because when this came to us initially, it did say six blue spruce. Now, when I look at what we're supposed to or are being asked to approve tonight, it just says six trees. And what's frustrating to me is I try to prepare for these meetings so that I can make decisions that are fully informed and good for the city of Edina. And when this first came to us, the only reason we learned that there were problems with the donation was because we were contacted by a resident. And then the more I dug into it, the more I learned there's city code that does say you can't just go in and plant a tree on parkland. And um we rely on the Henipin County list of trees for, you know, the trees that we accept for replacement trees. This is not on there. And then I was contacted by a resident who told me how problematic these were, how there used to be a bunch of them by the tennis courts and they all died. And I feel like this is something that on the one hand um keeps happening. Uh I keep getting things before me that are not fully uh informed. And so it's up to me to find out. And I I'm getting really frustrated and I really feel like I need to be paid more than $12,000 a year because I'm doing a lot of research here. And if I could get those images that show the code that we're talking about. Um so prohibited encumbrances or obstructions. And this refers to a park or public ground. And it does say specifically fences or landscaping. And the trees that were put in, my understanding is they're primarily there for landscaping. I did do a little digging to like taxing implications of being able to deduct a tree. You know, it's it's not being planted so that it will provide timber in the future. I don't think we can say that it is part of our tree replacement policy since it's not in the Henipin County list. And if we were to accept this donation, we would be setting a precedent so that other residents could go in and plant and landscape in ways. And these trees, if you were to extend the property lines further back um fall within the resident's property. So it sort of ends up implying that it's you know extending their land and so that is a problem as well. So, and as this unfolded, it unfortunately ended up being framed as a neighbor versus neighbor thing, which I think is so unfortunate and really incorrect because this is a basic case of somebody, a resident doing something that is not in alignment with code. So my question is why wasn't this just nipped in the bud in the beginning and instead of oh we're going to bring this to council and ask them to accept it as a donation and not tell them all of the stuff about it. Um I don't understand how this all came to be. >> Uh mayor uh council I apologize for the lack of clarity and consistency on this item. I apologize for that. Um we have talked internally about how we will um talk about the tree donation policy and what that means and if we need to review the process. Um we had done that several years ago with uh disease trees and assessments. We revamped our policy based on um feedback that evolves over time. In my five years, this is the first time this has happened. Um, so I apologize for for how this got in front of you this evening. Um, the um, staff report in here does call out that they are spruce in the letter and that part of what we would require because they are spruce and we were not consulted on the species is that the homeowner would be required um, to pay for the removal of those trees if they succumb to disease. So, I just wanted to be to be clear on that that we did highlight that in there, but maybe not so much in the resolution. There probably is an inconsistency for the word um Colorado Blue Spruce then um between the second page and the third page in your packet, >> right? But that's the content we got for today. The initial content had really it would have been on us to go, "Oh, Colorado blue spruce. I better look it up and see if that's an okay tree." And I feel like with donations, they need to be screened before they come to us. And if there's issues, we need to know. And it's not just trees. Um I did go back because now I'm concerned about donations because I'll be with so many things that come at us in the packet. I'm not focused on donations. And so, you know, I I went back and I saw, oh, we accepted a photo for $150. Did we assign that value or did we affirm that value because that's an object, you And so I I feel like there's other things with the donation policy that I'm concerned about, but you know, as we're moving forward and we're talking about this, I don't think we want people just planting trees in our parks without consulting staff. And I also feel like we do not want residents removing the trees. I feel like the the best most logical thing that would protect the city of Adina would not be to say, "Okay, you know, resident, you can remove it however you see fit." You know, I've got images of somebody out there with a little axe or a chainsaw or what? Who knows? And you are you and your staff know how to remove trees in a public park in a way that is safe. you and your staff know how to do the infill on the ground so that it is safe and no one's going to go tripping in a little divot or whatever. And so I I feel at this point what we should be doing is having that happen and the residents get build for the the cost of the labor um that is incurred from that. So I just those are my thoughts on this. >> Yeah, thanks for that. Um member Pierce I suppose I should say something. Um, so I I appreciate director that you take accountability uh for this. Um, I will say I don't we don't run the city as the city council. And so the city staff, the city manager, they run the city, right? We make decisions, right? Uh, but I don't think it actually is my job that if a resolution comes forward and it's a blue spruce or white spruce or white pine or whatever, if it comes in through the process, I do have confidence that if it follows the process, you would say this is not on our list. We should not accept this because of all these reasons. Um, and I have full confidence that that's what would happen. We Luther would be right there talking about it right now. Um, and I think that is the way it's supposed to work. And then as a council member, I'm taking that information and I'm trying to make a decision based on that. The problem I have with this is it didn't follow that process. Um and because it didn't the um um biggest issue I have is we are kind of talking about it in a very sanitized way. Um and so I was clear about this weeks ago when I reached out which is another thing that as council members we're supposed to do. So I reached out on this. We are talking about it still as more of a sanitized way. These residents planted trees on public property and they shouldn't have. That's what the issue is and we should say that they shouldn't have done that. Could there be 30 good reasons why they might have done that? Sure. Right. But the issue is they shouldn't have planted them there. And it really doesn't matter why they planted them there. And for us to sanitize it and say, "Well, we'll just accept a donation." Like, that's not right. We shouldn't do that. Um, and so all the other stuff that goes around that, the why did did it happen and what happened in 2018 and when was the policy established, all of that is good background to have. But the issue is they planted trees on public property and they're treating public property like it's theirs and they shouldn't do that. And so we should be addressing that factor. Um, and I don't think we should go to the extreme of saying, "Well, you committed a misdemeanor, right? We don't need to do that, but we should come up with an option which is not retroactively accepting a donation to address it." And I think that you guys have looked at, you've walked around the issue and you've come up with a different option. Um, but that's like that's how I I feel about it. um residents did something they shouldn't have done. Um and to to have other residents then fill out a petition that says we should leave them there. Like the whole thing is funny to me. It's just laughable that we would do that. Um cuz the issue is they're treating public property like it's theirs. they shouldn't have planted the the trees and we should rectify that and we shouldn't sanitize it and pretend like it's kind of okay cuz it's not. >> Well, that's >> Yeah. >> And I, you know, the comments I made earlier about my role as a city council, I got that from my previous mate. I was sitting there and I that's what Kevin Stuntton told me. It's like, hey, you could pretend like you work for the city and understand in detail what's in the code. You have more than one job to do. You got a day job, James. You have to be able to look at an issue and dig in to get the details from the city, but you got to let the city run the city. And so I don't per I don't engage in the role in that way. And does that mean I miss some things? Sure, that may miss that may mean I miss some things. But anytime that I've had questions and I've reached out, whether it's manager Neil, one of the directors, or one of the managers, I've always gotten the information that I needed to make a decision. Um, so I don't want more money because I'm fine with with the level of detail that I'm going to give and I think I'm pretty effective at how I do it. So, >> thank you, Member Pierce. Thanks for those thoughts. >> Um, >> uh, Mr. Mayor, if I could say a couple of things to interrupt. >> Yeah, let's why don't we hold off until we hear council's comments and then we'll go to you as a lawyer. >> Of course. Okay. Um, Council Member Jackson has a few thoughts, too, and then I'll share mine and we'll go we look for some legal advice here or some legal guidance. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, there's an old saying that it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission. But I think we want people to get permission. And that's plain and simple how I believe. And I think we have a process, a very easy to to follow process. the developer was able to do it and if they didn't get permission the tree shouldn't be there. >> It was succinct. [Laughter] >> Yeah. Well, I think um I was just as as member Pierce was talking about was thinking about um if one of his neighbors didn't like the um fact that he had to look at member Pierce's backyard and decided to go over and plant some trees at member Pierce's house to create a better level of privacy for himself. I mean, you just can't go to other people's property and plant stuff. >> Yeah. >> You know, and so to your point about uh it's at least the developer or the builder knew in 2018 that he had to ask for permission. >> Yeah. >> And now we got somebody asking for forgiveness and I don't I don't attribute knowledge to that person that they may not have known learned about it after the fact because they came in and asked for permission by virtue of the fact they're asking to make a donation. So, I don't impute ill intent here, but I just think we've got something important to think about. All of you have mentioned it in your own way. And that is um just can't go on public property and do whatever you think you want to do to whether it enhances your property or public property without permission. >> You just can't do it. So, what do we do about it? You know, I mean, the obvious thing is you reject a donation and then then what do we do about these trees? I mean, we all we're we're in the trees, you know, in our town. What we got I drove by there and there's they're there six great looking trees and uh they're not they're not so big that somebody couldn't move them. So, I I think this idea of getting them out of there somehow, giving the owner a chance to move them into his own yard or if he doesn't do it by a certain point in time, we we open it up and let people say they I'll take one, you know, and I'll dig it out of there with my kid and put in the back of our pickup truck and haul it away. Uh that seems to be a potential solution anyway. And um but I'll turn now to our our city attorney and ask him for his input on this issue. >> Of course. Thank you, uh, Mr. Mayor, members of council. Um, just a a couple of, um, thoughts for me and I I do just want to emphasize that I know we've, you know, there's been some some discussion about how this was, you know, not done following the ordinary process. Um, and I do just want to reiterate that, you know, we we have definitely communicated that to the homeowners that that this is, you know, that this was not following the normal process, that they should have gotten permission to do this in advance, that there is a process, you know, to do that. Um, and so I I think the what's before you now is really just the question of, you know, what do we do with these trees given that we're here already? So, this is just what happens with the trees. Um, we also heard um a suggestion that we would potentially accept the donation, but you know, keep the homeowner on the hook for if there is tree maintenance in the future. And unfortunately, I just don't know that we really have a legal mechanism to do that. um if we are accepting the trees, they are becoming city property. Um and you know there's not really a way to make adjacent homeowners um responsible for maintaining public property. Um so I you know I I know you know trees can be susceptible disease or can live for you know 100 200 years. Uh and so I I think the decision is you know are we accepting them and it's it's a sort of a very you know it's an up or down are we accepting them or not. Um also wanted to go I know council member um Risser uh raised a code provision um involving the um spruce trees. Um that one so there is a specific provision that says that the city does not allow um spruce trees to be planted in boulevards. Um, that one is specifically aimed at boulevard trees, is specifically aimed at um visibility on roads. Uh, my understanding is that these trees are not close enough to the street that they would constitute boulevard trees. And so I I don't know that that specific provision applies in this scenario, although of course there is still the general provision that you can't plant trees on public property. So that it's sort of that one specifically. And actually the boulevard I think is more along Oaklan where the spruce trees were put in the other project that I mentioned earlier. >> Um so sorry about that confusion. >> One thing I wanted to make clear too and I think a lot of us I mean if you've been around a while in life you're a human being and mistakes get made. And so, uh, to member Pierce's point for standing up here as our director and saying, "Yeah, my my apologies." I, you know, we appreciate that. Uh, but people uh, mistakes get made in processes and and it wasn't really your job to figure out if these, you know, the these trees that were proposed for a donation were something that we I mean, I think it's I don't want to I don't want to blame I'm not blaming you. I'm not trying to uh blame the messenger, you know, um because uh things can happen and um we but we caught this, you know. I mean, remember Risser and maybe maybe uh one of our residents who lives over there called her um or somebody at city hall. I don't know how the circumstances are, but we are where we are. We never accepted a donation. we got to the point where we needed to be to make a decision on this thing. And so regardless of how we got here, we're in a good spot and we and whoever made it possible for us to get here, thank you for those of uh on staff that may have missed something that happens once in a while and there's no fault to be laid in my opinion just for that for that circumstance. So manager Neil, >> thank you your honor. So I I want to just uh share again a possible solution for the council if you choose to u not accept this recommendation and that is to give the owner approximately a month excuse me the the resident at 5805 right 5805 Brookview Avenue to give them approximately a month to remove these trees. If they're not removed we would consider them to be abandoned. Uh they're on our property. they belong to us at that point and we would then take we would take some action to have them removed. I think the, you know, we have a an estimated cost of $1,000 a tree, so $6,000 to remove them. I think it would be too bad if we had both removed the trees and were out $6,000. So that's why I'm suggesting something in between, right, to allow um a landscaper or or a tree guy with a spade. we do not have a tree spade to move these trees to come in and and take them and to remove them and take them somewhere where they're more appropriate um to be planted. If that doesn't happen, then we would remove them. We'd probably remove them by cutting them down and taking them away. >> Yeah, I think there are landscapers and developers that would >> I don't think they would. I I I think there would be somebody who would take them just for the value of the tree. So, that would be my proposal to you is that we we give the the owner until uh September 12th to have them removed. If they're not, we'd have a couple of weeks uh in which we would allow first come first serve or to con develop some kind of process to allow specific language for this. And I'm assuming that you had some role in the crafting of the language. And so it seems to me that coupled with that, we'd want to deny the donation and then attach further conditions or do we want to just avoid that issue at all? >> Um, Mr. Mayor, uh, procedurally, I think the options in front of you are either approve the donation or reject the donation. If the donation is rejected, then I think we'd just be looking at, um, council direction on how to handle it. We wouldn't necessarily need >> like a resolution or anything to that effect. >> I think I was I was going to couple it in the form of a of a resolution that we would deny the donation and then articulate the the time frame that he'd have so that it was it was memorialized by this council as what we thought it was appropriate to do. >> Member Risser, >> just one question for the attorney. Does instructing or opening up this window for a period of time for the resident to remove the trees, it's public land, does that expose the city to any risk if he gets injured removing the trees or something were to happen? >> Um, Mr. Mayor, Council Member Risser, uh, I don't believe there would be any necessarily any liability on the city's part. um you know uh liability for the city as a property owner generally comes from um you know dangerous conditions that the city isn't correcting and since there we're not necessarily creating any dangerous conditions here um you know this would be done you know they still have a responsibility to act in a reasonable manner >> we have immunity I think in some cases like this >> okay and then to um council member Pierce's earlier point about the role of council and the way, you know, I feel like at this point, you know, our our role is to vote whether or not to accept the donation. I think staff's role is to figure out how to deal with the trees and that's not really our place. Um, so I'm uncomfortable with being prescriptive in that way. I I guess what I'm offering you is just how I would how I would take care of the issue if you reject the if you reject the gift, if you don't approve it. >> Yes, I'm agnostic about I I kind of like memorializing the action that we're going to require, denying the donation and then saying this is what we're telling the homeowner he has to do. But I'm not going to follow my sword over that idea. If we just want to direct staff to follow those general guidelines, that's fine with me, too. Yeah. I No, I I actually think it's the same thing. What you're recommending we memorialize is what staff is suggesting we do and we're just putting that in the motion. We're still in our advising role. And so I'm okay either way. U we do that, but I'm I'm I think we are advising. We've given that advice um up until this point and the city is has an option B, right? That's how option B became option B. >> The only question I have and I guess I make it as a statement, manager Neil, I don't think the city should be on the hook for any cost >> to remove those trees. >> Agreed. Yeah. And so if it ends up I and I interpret what you're describing as a way to have um residents come buy the trees like >> take them. >> Just take them. >> Oh, just take them. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I just I don't think the city should be on the hook at all. Yeah. >> And and that's why I that's what this approach was designed to to do, not to we shouldn't have to incur costs for this for this kind of thing. And the idea of of incurring costs and then chasing them through the the small claims court is just not probably going to be very effective for us. >> Oh yeah. And so just to be clear, what I meant was if a resident wants to come get a tree, the resident is covering the cost to come get the tree. >> They do. >> Right. That that's what I meant. >> And clean up the mess that results from it, too. >> And the city's not on the hook to do that. Right. >> Yeah. If if this was done in the form of a motion, my notion was that we uh deny resolution 2025-58 and then direct staff to inform the resident who planted the trees, they have until September 12th, 2025 to remove the trees and repair any damage to the landscaping caused by the removal of the trees. And if he doesn't do that by September 12th, the city will consider them abandoned and then publicly offer them at no cost to anyone in the city of Edina who will remove and replant them, including repair of any damage to landscaping created by the removal. And if no one comes forward to claim and remove the trees in whole or in part by September 26th, the city will remove and dispose of the trees. That was what that was what I was going to propose in the motion. >> Very close. But I would say we we move to reject the gift rather than to deny the resolution because you don't want to make a negative motion. So we move to reject the gift and then >> I guess it's accept or reject or deny the gift. Yeah. Um so with the with the um notion that we would reject uh the the um acceptance of the TRO donation embodied in resolution 202558 and then have the rest of that language. >> Yeah, >> that would be the form of the motion. >> Yes, I'll make that motion. >> Make Jackson. >> Yes. So move >> Pierce, would you second that? >> I would second that. >> Uh point of order, Mr. Mayor. Um just the the way that the statute on donations works is a donation is proposed and then the council has to act on it and the the it's worded as you know if if it's not accepted then it is denied. So there doesn't really need to be a motion to deny it. So it would it would actually be a um the the resolution that's in front of you is a >> not to accept >> a resolution. It would be a resolution to accept that would then be voted down and then >> Okay. Okay. >> We can do that. We can do it in two steps. >> You would withdraw the motion. >> I withdraw the second. >> Yeah. >> All right. Let's go with the other way then that is um a little bit clearer and less coupled if you will. Um, is there a motion to approve resolution 2025-58 accepting tree donations at Pamela Park adjacent to 5805 Brookview Avenue? >> So moved. >> Second. Uh, we got a motion, a second to um adopt resolution 2025-58 accepting donations at Pamela Park adjacent to 5805 Brookview Avenue. All those in favor of adoption of that resolution say I. >> All those opposed. >> Nay. >> The nays have it unanimously. The U resolution 2025-58 which would propose accepting tree donations at Pamela Park adjacent to 5805 Brookley Avenue is rejected and um that that resolution is not adopted. The donation is not accepted. Um, on the heels of that, I would ask if anyone on the council cares to um propose that we direct staff uh to inform the resident who planted the trees who resides at 5805 Brookview Avenue in Edina to um that he will have that they will have until September 12th, 2025 to remove those um Colorado blues trees and repair any damage to the landscape landscaping caused by the removal of the trees. trees. And if the resident does not remove the trees by September 12th, 2025, the city will consider them to be abandoned and then publicly offer them at no cost to anyone in Indiana who will remove and replant them with our supervision uh on the removal uh including repair of any damage to landscape created by the removal. And if no one comes forward to claim and remove the trees uh in whole or in part by September 26th, the city will remove or dispose of any trees that remain on that on public property at that location. Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. >> Is there a second? >> All right. Any further discussion? >> Question. >> Yes. Discussion. Yes. >> Um so the latter portion of that trees, then the city removes them. Do we assess the homeowners the cost of that? >> We just don't have a removal would be in the form of cutting them down, I take it. >> Okay. >> So, uh, Mr. Mayor, if I may, the um pursuing the cost of that would be through filing an action in small claims court um which we could do to, you know, try and recoup any cost. Um I know there the um there was $1,000 a tree figure that was for replanting the trees. Um I believe the city would be cutting them down, which would be substantially less expensive because it's much less significant undertaking. um we would have to weigh the cost benefit of um trying to pursue that in small claims court. Um you know it's certainly it's something we could look at but we want to make sure that we're not going to be spending more on >> that's fair >> the action than we would be recovering in cost >> and that's that's what I think it would be in my just general sense >> and that that's fair >> but we could address that in a in a subsequent motion. I'm comfortable with that. Thank you. >> We got a motion, a second on the motion as stated. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. Um staff's got their direction. Thank you for that guidance from both manager Neil and our city attorney. All right. And thank you, Mr. Veter. Good director Rder. All right. Now, we've got another donation matter to deal with. Hold on a second. Let me find that one. Bear with me here. Okay, we've got the resolution 2025-66 uh which is another uh proposed donation uh multiple donations uh to the city of Edina uh that are embodied in that in that resolution um for to the park and rec department, the police department, art center, and the senior center. Uh, does anyone on the council care to move the adoption of that resolution? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved by moved by member Jackson, seconded by member Pierce, the adoption of resolution 2025-66. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of resolution 2025-66, say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed, carried. Uh those names will be on the um city website and the donations were uh we had six donations to the park and rec department for uh memorial benches in different parks uh from Glorious Wright, Mary Wy, Meg Atkinson and Gleman, Peter Dinovic and Carrie Devin and Ryan Davies from as far away as Scottdale, Arizona. Thank you to all of those folks for the donation of those funds for memorial benches for loved ones. And then the um uh Rolling Green neighborhood um contributed $9,000 for flock cameras to the PD. And so we're enhancing security over there. And then the art center also had some donations including a grant from Henipin County for youth activities in the amount of a little over $7,000 uh for an art lab program. Uh and then the uh senior center had a a grant as well from Griswald Homeare for $410 uh for a shredding event over there. Shredding truck over there. Uh thanks everybody who was a donor to the city of Ediner. We greatly appreciate it. And now we will move on to the next portion of our agenda which involves um well we'll see some bond sales and finance presentation and we've got some uh activity we've been involved in with respect to um construction activity in our community um and bridge building and other things we're going to talk about. So, I'm going to turn now over to uh Pod Tower, finance director, and Nick Anut, our municipal adviser from Ellers is here as well. >> Well, good evening, Mayor Council. >> Yeah, good evening. Uh, as you may recall, on June 17th, the council authorized the issuance and sale of general obligation bonds to finance the remaining funds needed for our new fire station 2 project, as well as the reconstruction of President's A and B streets in various uh, water sanitary sewer and storm sewer capital improvement projects. Bids have been received and tabulated by our city's municipal advisors, Ellers, and Associates. And so with us tonight, Nick Anne Hut will present and share those results with you tonight. >> Thank you, mayor, members of the council. Nick Anne Hut with Ellers and Associates, municipal adviserss to the city of Edina. And as P just mentioned, uh the action before the council is to award the sale of bonds to finance a variety of different projects that were authorized uh back in June by the council. So, there were uh different components of this bond issue as P mentioned um namely about $10 million worth of funding for the fire station 2 project. That would be the last trunch of debt issued for completion of all the project expenses related to that project. There's also street reconstruction components as well as utility capital improvements that are underway currently at the city. Each one of those different components will be repaid by a different revenue source. The fire station by a dedicated tax levy. The uh street reconstruction paid by assessments levied against the properties benefiting from those improvements. And then the utility components will be repaid through the uh various enterprise funds that the city administers for the water, sanitary sewer, and storm sewer systems that it operates. Uh I'm happy to say that the uh city last week uh its AAA credit rating was affirmed by both Moody's and S&P uh which is a the top credit rating that the city has had in place since back in 2000 and 2003 from both of those agencies. It is the highest possible rating that they do award. uh a credit rating is necessary in this uh in this type of a transaction to provide the marketplace an indication of the ability and willingness of the city to repay its debts. And so it's a a kind of a qualitative measurement that that uh Moody's and S&P is giving the marketplace about whether or not they think Edina is going to be good on its debt repayments and they think that you're among the top across the country. So, something to be proud of and it also allows us to access lower interest rates when we do go out to the market with a bond sale like this. Um, this morning, as it mentioned, we did open bids on the purchase of these bonds and we did receive seven bids on behalf of the city with the winning bid coming from Baird. Uh, it's listed as BARD here. They actually represent a syndicate of more than 30 different investment banking institutions that pulled everything together under Baird as the manager of their syndicate. Um but there were also other bids provided from a variety of different national firms. Uh Piper Sandler here in the Twin Cities also uh Truist would be one that we haven't seen recently in city transactions but uh a whole cast of characters that we have seen in the past. Um I will note that the spread between the low and the high bid, the low meaning the lowest interest rate uh that that uh is being proposed uh from Baird and the high from truest is only 05 percentage points. It's called five basis points, but it's a very tight uh spread, a tight grouping. Usually that gives us an indication that there's some uh consistency in the marketplace that that's kind of where this type of a transaction should price. Uh, and this is certainly reflective of that. All all all all of these seven different bids all coming with within that type of a grouping. Uh, one thing I do want to note uh, in particular um, for the council is that in discussions with staff, we were able to ratchet down the amount of borrowing since I came before you in June. Uh, particularly for the fire station 2 uh, project that'll be repaid by a a tax levy. Um, in discussions with with staff uh regarding the progress of uh that project, there were some contingency dollars that had been built into that budget to, you know, plan for kind of rainy day type events, work orders, things that were unplanned. Um, it was determined that we didn't necessarily need that full amount of funding. And so we were able to actually reduce by about $2 million the amount of borrowing necessary. So, where we had planned about a $25 million transaction, uh, with your action tonight, we'll actually be locking in at 22,345,000. So, uh, for the levy component that was projected for the repayment, we're we're actually reducing it by about 20% uh, from what we were planning on before. So, from about um, $880,000 down to $700,000. So, uh, that's a good good news on the project. uh you're still going to be able to deliver that project on time, on budget, as planned, but we're able to reduce the amount of borrowing necessary to fund it. Um the other good news is that that interest rate is lower than the the estimates that I came before you and projected. I I had put together an estimate of about five or excuse me, 4.57% back in June. I am conservative when I do put these estimates together in front of the council, especially knowing that there's quite a bit of activity that takes place in the market. Um, we were estimating about half a percentage point higher than we thought they would actually price. Turns out this was, you know, more like uh 6 uh percentage points lower. So, good news on that front as well. Good to lock in a lower rate and that the market didn't spike on us in this time period. So, uh, both of those components mean lower cost to the city, lower tax levy, uh, than originally anticipated to impact your budgets. So, with that said, there is a revised resolution put before the council. 202562 has been revised by your bond attorneys at Dorsey and Whitney after reviewing of the bids that were provided awarding the sale of 22,345,000 in general obligation bonds. This will award the sale of the bonds to the low bidder bared based on the uh terms that were proposed within their bid and it would lock in uh the amount of uh financing necessary for the projects that we described and set us up for closing on August 28th at the end of this month. Happy to stand for any questions of the council. We certainly recommend uh awarding uh this bid uh based on the low bid from from Baird. >> Questions from council members for Mr. Gran Hut. All right, let me see if I've captured this proposed resolution correctly. Uh, resolution 2025-62, uh, which would award the sale of 22,345,000 in general obligation bond series 2025A to bear based upon the lowest bid, their lowest bid on the bond uh, issuance. >> Perfect. >> Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. >> Second. A motion by member Jackson, second by member Pierce to adopt resolution 2025-62, which would award the sale of 22,345,000 in general obligation bonds series 2025A to BARD based upon uh the lowest bid on the bond issuance that we had for the city. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adopt adoption of the resolution as stated say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed carried. The resolution is approved. The uh word of sale to Baird is approved at 22,345,000. Mr. Ranut, as always, thank you for your good work on behalf of the residents of the city of Vina. >> Appreciate it. Thank you. >> All right. And I don't think you're done yet, but uh >> I'll stick around. >> Stick around. Yeah. Um and now we're going to go back to Miss Dell Rimple uh who's uh taking care of all the business in the planning department here this week. I think resolution 2025-38 subdivision and variances proposed at 316 Madison Avenue. And as I mentioned, back to Emily Del Rimple, our assistant city planner. And um go ahead, Miss Del Ripple. >> Uh thank you, mayor, members of the council. The request tonight is for a subdivision and variances at 316 Madison Avenue. Homes within reach, the applicant is proposing to subdivide the property at 316 Madison Avenue into two lots. The two lots would both have dimensions of approximately 46 ft by 130 ft. The parcel was originally platted as two lots with these dimensions that were combined over time. Um the proposed subdivision would reestablish the original lot sizes which are consistent with the majority of the other lots on the 300 block of Madison Avenue. The existing house would remain on the north half or the north lot and the applicant would build a new house without variances on the newly created lot. Homes Within Reach is a community-based organization that creates and preserves affordable home ownership opportunities in Henipin County. They are a partner organization of the city. Um both the existing and the new home as proposed um or as a result of the subdivision would be sold to a household earning up to 80% of the area median income and held in a land trust to ensure long-term affordability. The city council held a public hearing on July 15th. Um the public comments closed on July 27th and no comments were received on better together. The planning commission reviewed and unanimously recommended approval of the request and tonight the recommended action is that the city council approve resolution 2025-38 approving the subdivision and variance to lot with lot depth and lot area for 316 Madison Avenue. With that, I can answer any questions. And the applicant, the representative from Homes Within Reach, Brenda Lana Walke, is in the audience tonight. >> All right. Council members, questions for Miss Del Rimple on this matter. It's back in front of us. And uh you had no public comment, I think. >> Um and um we didn't have anybody testify regarding the matter from a public input standpoint. Did we get any Did we get anything submitted uh in some other way other than better together.org? >> We did not. >> Okay. All right. >> There was one public testimony I believe at the city council hearing last meeting. >> So, we got a couple different pathways we could take here. One is adoption of the resolution which would approve a subdivision invariances to lot width, lot depth and lot area for 316 Madison Avenue uh to give us another home ownership opportunity in Edana at an affordable price point. Uh does anyone care to make that motion? >> Moved. >> Second. Member Risser moves member Jackson seconds the approval of resolution 2025-38 which would approve a subdivision and variances to lot width, lot depth and lot area for 316 Madison Avenue. Um and that requires a simple majority. Uh is there any further discussion with respect to that motion? Uh all those in favor of adoption of resolution 2025-38 say I. I. I opposed carried. The project's approved. Folks, thanks for being with us and sticking with us tonight. Uh really pleased that you found this opportunity and we'll get somebody uh else another family living in Indiana up in the president's neighborhood. Great little neighborhood. Thank you. Okay. And now we're on to the franchise fee conversation uh continued. and Chad Milner, our engineering director, has this matter uh with regard to potentially uh changing to a percentage on the franchise fee. >> Thank you, mayor, mayor's council. In front of you this evening is ordinance number 2025-06. That's in regard to Centerpoint Energy and ordinance number 2025-07 for Excel Energy. And we're going to be talking about utility franchise fees. So, we're at a decision point. In 2023, we came in front of the council and had some fee updates, and we said we'd be back for some planned reviews in 2025 and 2027. Uh, so we're back. Uh, at the council retreat, you directed staff to proceed with some options to generate an additional $1 million for street reconstruction to take that out of the general levy, but you noted the important work that the franchise fees currently do for the PAX fund and on and the cast fund and street lighting. We had two work session discussions on April 16th and May 6th. And this evening, we're recommending you adopt a new percent fee model effective January 2026, establishing a new 4% fee for all customers. Uh with one change, working with our partners at Excel Energy, uh we would suggest a 4% fee up to meters that have a revenue generation of $200,000. So once we reach that number, which is 30 to 40 meters, then the percent after that would change to.3%. And that has about a $250,000 change in our revenues. But that would address some of the really big meters in town and really big fees that we might see on our largest customers. Um, and I'll share a little bit more about that as we move through this. So how come we can do this? We have a statute listed here that we are allowed to create those if we have a franchise agreement and we do with both these parties. Uh we established this in 2012 for the PAX fund, 2016 for the CAS fund and like I mentioned we were back in 2023 we added street lights. Here's where we are today. We have a a monthly fee, a flat fee across these uh meters for both Centerpoint and Excel and residential is the first. So, we typically talk about these fees based on residential customers. Currently, it's $3.55 for each uh of those, and that's the column highlighted with the orange arrow. And then we did put some additional information on just annual amounts, the number of meter counts, and the estimated revenue as it stands today. And just to note on the bottom that our residential customers do account for 67% of the revenue. We've had some of our commissions, specifically the Transportation Commission and Energy Environment Commission because it does this is relates to their work stating that that number feels high to them that it shouldn't be this geared towards residential properties funding that much revenue. So, there's discussions about changing the rates on the commercial side. Just comparing to some of our peer cities in the residential customer class, Brooklyn Park has the highest rates at $7 for each. So they would be charging $14 compared to our $710. And we're down near the bottom where Plymouth is at $353. And then on the right is the uses that each one of those communities use those fees for uh versus what we use it for. Then we compared the same pure cities or some of the same cities on the customer class. And these are ranges, right? So Bloomington is anywhere from $11.90 all the way up to $182. We're at $671 currently per month on all those electric and natural gas fees for our various commercial customers. And again towards the middle to the bottom of this chart. And then since we're talking percentage based fees this evening, we also provided uh those for both residential on the lefth hand side. So anywhere from uh 5.25% down to 3%. And on the commercial classes 6.75% down to three. and we're proposing that 4% which fits kind of right in the middle of various cities that do a percent feebased model. Uh if we adopt this new percent fee, this would be a come become effective January of 2026. And again, it'd be that 4% on all customers up to and then having that Excel caveat about up to $200,000 of revenue changing to.3% after. Uh it created $3.6 million. It's basically covering the million dollars that was discussed at the council retreat for street reconstruction. And again, the individual customers are going to vary based on their energy consumption um and the gross revenues each year by these various utilities. These are just projections. Actual revenues will vary by year versus having those flat rates. So, if we got a really cold or hot year, those revenues will go up. And if we have a more moderate weather year, they will go down. Currently, if we were going to convert our current rates to an average percentage, it would be about 2.7%. Just to give you an idea where we're at. So, here's what it would look like on that 4% model for residential customer for the gas would be $3.39. And on the Excel, residential would be $4.64. And we gave you all the other customer classes here. kind of a lot on this table. Uh but why would we support it and why would we not support changing to a percent model? We would support it because it creates an approach based on the consumption. So higher energy users pay pay their fair share. It rewards energy efficiency. Why wouldn't we support it? We have a risk of not meeting those revenues if the typically the weather moderates. there's some predictability uh in those energy bills go away with those high use months or rate increases and certain customers are going to see very large increases in the amounts of tens of thousands of dollar increases with this when we look at those highest meters that I've referenced why we may want to charge them a slightly different rate when we get up there. And there was uh at that last work session we had with the council is can we compare taxes to these fees for that $1 million of street reconstruction. So we tried to do our best here. Um it first should be noted that taxes and energy use vary greatly across the city, right? Every parcel has different taxing agencies, different energy use. These calculations are based on a medium valued home and an average residential energy user. So there's probably three of those in town when we look at all the various uses. And just so you know, the median value home is at 712,000. So the first column there, the flat rate, that's what we're we're charging today, $710. If we go to the percent fee on a residential customer, that would increase to $8 a month and an increase of 90. When we looked at the estimated tax on a median value home for the $1 million in street reconstruction today using general levy of dollars, that's $327 is what we estimated. If we would change that to this new fee on a residential customer because we're changing that and the commercial side is going to pick up more of that revenue because of that percentage because they are the bigger users. We would actually be paying a residential customer would be paying instead a $1.98. So there's a decrease there of $1.29. So the from the increase to the decrease, there'd be a decrease overall of 40 cents or 39 cents approximately for a residential customer if we did the switch. So we're recommending an adoption of a new percent fee model at 4% for all customers. And embodied in an Excel ordinance is that caveat of once you reach that $200,000 of revenue, it'll switch to a.3% rate. And we would recommend adopting both these ordinances tonight on first reading and waving second reading. And I'd be happy to stand for any questions. And we do have a representative from each agency in the audience if I can't answer your questions. >> Very good. Thank you for that. We've been talking about this matter for several months and um I'll turn to my colleagues now and see if anybody has any uh supplemental questions or clarifications. Commissioner member Richer >> um just curious about the rate reduction down to 3% when you get over that what was it 200k u it kind of gave me flashbacks to the ready kilowatt ads like the more you use the more you save and I'm sort of wondering why the decrease >> we yeah I didn't state why we thought this was a good idea um most of those customers are already working with both these agencies to reduce their energy use as much as possible. They're just very large businesses. I mean, think about some of the biggest in town. So, they're already doing everything they can. So, it's almost they're doing good work. Let's not charge the rate all the way to the top. Um, and then there's going to be some PR concerns with those very large customers when they start to see some bills. So, this shows that we're addressing those and notifying them or uh acknowledging their potential fees and bills coming up with this change. >> Thank you. and I appreciate the comment about they're already doing. >> Thank you, >> Pierce. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I I think this is a um neat opportunity to combine the reason we're doing this with environment um and energy because it it would be I think it would be neat for us to share this and you said 90 cents right was the delta and so I just did a little bit of uh research, very light research. Uh what would it cost for a resident to actually save 90 cents of power, right? And it actually is very achievable to do that. I mean, it's as simple as in some cases, you know, switching off lights or, you know, not running, you know, maybe one drier cycle when you look at kilowatts per hour, putting in more LED lights, that kind of thing. Um, because the reason I like the percentage fee is because we're trying to give more control to the homeowner, right? so they can impact that number um as much as they can and we're trying to shift the burden to the larger users like you said with the higher bills. Um and so I like that. I think it would just be kind of neat to also say, "All right, this is the change we're making and here are some ways as a resident you can impact your um your power consumption um so that your 4% is is less or equal to." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> all right. Member Jackson is smiling. So, >> we have Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. We have a program that you can do. You can sign up for Home Energy Squad and they'll come out and they will help you reduce your energy bills, both heating and electricity. So, uh, Director Milner, can you tell people how they can do that? >> Yeah, you can go to our website and find information on there to sign up and we actually pay a portion of those visits. So, we do that through our cast fund, which this pays for. So, it's kind of a roundroin of yes, you do this and we can lower those rates. So, yep, check our website and we can help out with that. Thank you. One thing >> and I'm sorry I just want to thank you for the work on this. You guys put both you and Director Tao put a lot of work into this um excellent presentation showing the analysis. Um >> and I'm I'm super excited about this because it's an incentive to save energy. Yeah, I think that's well said and the presentation was really thorough. The one thing that still gives me a little bit of pause is the alignment of purpose of and use of the funds with beneficiaries. And so maybe you can help me with this. I mean, it it seems like the people that are going to be paying the most, bigger companies, bigger users, aren't necessarily getting the benefit of us using this money for building out our sidewalk system or adding to our street reconstruction. It's uh in the neighborhoods itself that they're going to be benefiting. So residential customers may be taking the bulk of the responsibility here at 67% but maybe that's appropriate under the circumstances. And I'm just interested in your observations about the if you're comfortable with the alignment of the charges with the intended use of the of the funds. >> Sure. And I'll just remind the council where the funds go to. Right. The pedestrian cyclist fund. This is a to build a multimodal transportation system through the entire city and we do that in commercial areas and residential try to fill those gaps so customers can get to some of these larger businesses but also for the residents. We have the cast fund where we do work with our again the larger customers on various systems and policies that are in place there. Street lighting that's all over town too. So that's one thing that would be there. And now there'd be street reconstruction. So, our city's just laid out where it's mostly residential, but we are in some commercial areas uh doing recon. We just did Southdale neighborhood uh last year next to a lot of commercial businesses and this would uh go directly to that program at a million dollars. So, I think it is spread out. >> There's a there's a your point is there's a broad range of beneficiaries here. >> Yes, I Yes, I agree with that statement. >> Both commercial and residential. >> Correct. >> Mr. Mayor, I would add too, right? And if these are these are the kinds of project costs, if we don't fund them with this revenue, we fund them with tax revenue. So they they do have a connection that way too. >> Okay. Thanks for that. That's helpful. Um so we've got two ordinance matters to deal with here uh on that on those percentages and they they differ slightly uh with respect to Excel over a certain level of revenue capture and then go to.3% over 200,000. So let's take the centerpoint energy uh ordinance first which is ordinance 2025-06. Um, is there a motion to adopt ordinance number 202506 regarding energy gas energy franchise fee with Centerpoint Energy? >> So moved. >> Second. >> A motion by member Jackson, second by member Pierce to adopt ordinance number 2025-06 regarding establishing the gas energy franchise fee at 4% of use with the Centerpoint Energy. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of ordinance 202506 as stated say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed. Carried. Ordinance 2026506 is adopted. Uh I forgot to ask about waiver of second reading. Let's go back and take second reading on both of them when we get done. Uh with respect to ordinance 20250, let's do it one at a time so they're sequential. Is there a motion to wave second reading on ordinance 20256 that we just passed on a first reading basis? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Got a motion second to wave second reading on ordinance 202506 which was just passed by the council. Any further discussion? All those in favor of waving second reading on ordinance number 202506 say I. >> I. >> I opposed carried. Uh and then with respect to ordinance 202507 regarding electrical service franchise fees with XL Energy, uh is there a motion to adopt that proposed ordinance uh in its stated form from director Milner on a first reading basis and wave second reading? >> So moved. >> Second. Member Jackson moves member Pierce seconds the adoption of ordinance number 202507 regarding the imposing the electrical service franchise fee on a percentage basis with Excel Energy uh and also waving second reading of that ordinance. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of ordinance 202507 is stated say I. >> I. >> I opposed carried. Those two are adopted and now we're going on to uh our facilities manager Derek Cotton and Perry Veter is back with us as director of our park and rec program to talk a little bit about a construction bid on the project we approved over at the aquatic center. Uh thank you, mayor, members of the council. We are back this evening um with some additional information that you had request from the July 15th meeting as well as Mr. Rotten will be presenting the updated construction cost numbers that uh came in from the bid results that he solicited. Uh just a reminder, I don't think I need to spend a lot of time on this slide, but of a uh timeline of the progression on how we got to this point of reviewing the aquatic center pump and filter room as well as some additional planning that we had taken you through. Um just as those watching at home, um uh one of the things we did look at um on some horizon level planning was the pump and filter edition, the equipment replacement and opportunities for user enhancements. Uh some longer term uh planning was conducted on facility upgrades and expansion really meeting user expectations addressing some operational challenges. Um those were not proposed at that time and they are not proposed at this time but we did want to keep those fresh um for you to um look at consideration. Again you saw this last time. This is just uh some survey results that we look at annually um from feedback from our users. Um, always most important are two bookend numbers, which is the safety of our participants and our staff. Uh, and we use this kind of as a guide to say, you know, what things could we look at for user amenities in this first portion of the project. Again, this was information about our uh passholders uh resident versus non-resident both for the last two years of season passes as well as some one-time credit card use uh balancing out the resident versus non-resident ratios. So, the shaded box with the hatch around it is the area if this was a top-down view of the aquatic center of the project we are discussing this evening. However, we did look at additional horizon level planning. One was to uh really put a front face on the aquatic center both from a visibility standpoint but also accessibility. Um those uh we often get calls um is this is the hill still there? Um and every year we have to report the hill is still there and that elevation does cause some operational challenges for some of some of our visitors. So, um, a more welcoming and accessible, um, avenue to the aquatic center is high on the list, as well as, um, additional concession deck area, more, um, food and shade. Uh, obviously I mentioned the revised 88 pathways, and just some new deck boundaries. I'll show you some some pull quotes that we got on the serveway. Uh, but just how people enter and exit the aquatic center is uh, something that has evolved with newer centers over time. um that that our our facility is in need of. Um new group areas, uh gender uh neutral family restrooms. That is a big request that we get is just a a facility that a a mom can take a son, a dad can take a daughter um and not have to go through those two locker rooms. That's a big need and and a lack of a facility that we have here as well as some of the other uh you know reservable cabanas and the uh just the the park and family restroom structure as well. Um kind of lays out where where some of those horizon levels are. Um but again the the uh numbers and the proposal for you this evening is just on that filter room edition that Mr. and we'll take you through uh in a little bit here as well as updated numbers on the two alternatives. And just for your reminder there, the alternative A was for that rentable reser reservable space for our patrons. And then alternate B was we have to take out the shade structure for this project was to replace it with a solar canopy as well. And just different looks on on how those would be viewed. Um we were asked to do a little bit of um additional futuring as well. Kind of that green area that's hatched out. It would be that expanded um entry flow for additional concessions, updating of those locker rooms and restrooms. Uh the idea here is to get people into the aquatic center and then let them choose the the restroom and the locker room that they need to go to rather than forcing them through a locker room as well as additional deck space. The two areas in yellow are currently in use now. One is the flow rider and the other is our zero depth play area. if we wanted to look further down the horizon of of what could look like in the future. Um I always want to give that caveat of um if we were going to do that today, what we might consider and do we don't know what those trends will be five or 10 years down the line of what u where we want to be on that cutting edge, but if we were to do that uh today, we'll look at some of those things and really kind of basis of where we looked at that was additional from the from the survey results we collect. Um, wanted to share a couple of uh, pull quotes for you from that survey. As I mentioned, um, really it's always about seating and shade, having to force uh, a a parent through the locker rooms to begin with and then not having that back stop where if kids do go into the locker room restroom, they can just keep going right out of the park as well. So, so really that's about it. It's um you know the improvements that are needed, bathrooms, shade, seating um and really really having that flexibility for families. Um again just a top down view um of the aquatic center kind of that hatched out area um of where in the horizon you you could expand to. This is kind of that welcoming area of, you know, could you um catch people as they're coming in for that visibility and get them into the center earlier than possible. Um bringing actually the aquatic center towards towards the people arriving rather than making them pursue it. um kind of a a bird's eye view of of how a new entrance and concession deck could function um by then allowing kind of a greater shaded food area and then turning the existing entrance and concessions into those family changing areas. Again, just kind of a top- down program of of how we could use our existing infrastructure to to update the center. As I mentioned, there are kind of those two longer term areas where if you did look at further planning, what would you do today? Um, these are kind of the latest trends, right? Is climbing walls into the pool. We have zip lines now. People like to to do these things are being added across that again with the caveat of future trends would be down the road. The other popular um item that people are installing now are the uh the splash pad concept um where you um you could get away um with expanding the season. I think that's why this is attractive as well. You don't need to guard these. They still have uh state pool codes and things of that nature you still need to be mindful of, but it doesn't require uh lifeguards. So you'll see a lot of communities are installing these and it actually can extend the season. So when you think about our greatest limiting factor is our staffing. We hire a lot of um high school college students that come in and uh and operate the facility with us. Um this kind of can expand that window in time back into May into September and give you that greater flexibility that we can't just staff as well. So that's just kind of a quick walkthrough of some of the horizon planning that we've um brought you through some additional areas of consideration. And now um oh we had one additional slide of what revenue could be generated um and the kind of the rentable reservable space. Um our staff member Nate Morrison, he's come in this evening. I'm going to call him out because he came late at night here to to watch and listen. Did some uh great research for us. Obviously, there are a number of communities in the metro that already have these. He actually looked also at the Wisconsin Dells area and outstate to kind of do comparisons on how people are managing them, what occupancy rates they have, and we can expect in that area of about a 30 to $40,000 revenue potential for that reservable space. When you look at down the line for additional ones, um additional group area and rentable space could be in that um 60 to $70,000 and an increase in concession lift of about 15 to 20 with those expansions. And then Mr. Rotten done some math and the solar arrays could save about 25% of our power. And with that, I'm going to turn that over to Mr. Rotten for the pricing discussion. >> Was the solar alternate A or alternate B? I can't remember. >> Uh, alternate >> B. >> Yes. >> Uh, good evening, Mr. Mayor. >> Right there. >> Yes. Um, so, uh, I'm just here to kind of bring you through where we're at today. Um, as you can see in the slides, you know, we we talked about the June 2022 numbers. We were at 50% schematic design, um, at about 2.8 million. Uh, late 2024, it went up to 4.3. That was at 50% design development. Uh, in May of 2025, we're at 95% design development, and we had a 5.858 858 million project budget for construction and then we went out to bid um as I presented back in mid July. Um I said we were going to be uh conducting that bid process. Uh bids closed on the 25th of July. Uh we tabulated them with our uh construction manager at risk and they came in quite favorable. Uh they came in at $5.03 million. So it was uh the the bid environment uh actually worked out in our favor this time. Um you can see that the soft costs remain the same. Those are mainly, you know, set costs for some of the design, engineering, and equipment costs. Uh the contingency lowered that is percentage based on that uh construction cost price as did the tariff contingency that were carrying. So both of those went down um you know in the representative amounts. Um so right now uh we were showing an $ 8.98 million project budget. That was back in uh May of 2025 when we were projecting that in July. um at the end of the month of July we were able to reduce that to $8,53,763 and that is just the the base bid right that's a guaranteed maximum price that we got from our sub or our uh construction manager at risk and then we have two alternates considered too alternate A is that rentable reservable area um also came in very favorable at $287,000 and then alternate B that's that uh existing shade canopy and that came in at $91,000 $91 $1,389. So overall, we're uh um really favorable to the uh the markets and some of the the estimates we had before. Um initially we were showing that $ 8.98 million project budget. Um it's at 8.432708. So that's where we stand today. Uh any questions on this slide? >> Director. Question for director. >> Yeah. No pierce. >> No, you go ahead. um alternate A and B. >> Yes. >> Like that's almost unbelievable. So describe how uh those numbers came in so significantly lower. >> Sure. I I had the same questions today too. Um and the response I received was uh is a very favorable bid environment right now. A lot of contractors are coming off of school work. Um this project is slated to start in the fall, right? So that is, you know, they're coming off that work. They're looking for that intern work. Um, same thing happens in the spring of 26 when we would start to ramp up the finishing stages of this. Um, contractors are looking for infill work before that school season starts too. So it's a product of the bid environment at this point in time. That's what we're seeing. >> Yeah. >> And then last question on I think you said the solar array was B. >> That's correct. Yes. >> Um, you've told us this before. How much energy do we think we can save with that? >> I I don't have the exact amount, but as director Veter said, it's about 25% of the actual pump room. Um the energy that's the biggest energy use of the the city, >> but we don't know how much dollar value that is. >> It's it's not at this time. It's very tough to put a dollar figure on it just because the um the energy generation es and flows and we're also based on the market rate of whatever the energy provider is charging us. But it's about 25% of the actual power that the building uses. It just seems like at a $91,000 cost to build it, you should be close to paying for it a lot sooner, >> relatively quickly. Yeah. >> Than we thought before. And so that would be a that would be a good message to to be able to share. >> And and I should point out I'm sorry I should point out that the the solar array is actually paid for through the cast fund that Chad had brought forward to. So we we have a separate funding source for the actual panels and the installation of it. This is just for the structure itself that it would be mounted to. >> Yeah. >> Council member rejection. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, uh, the alternate A is the rentable areas and it looked like estimated about $30,000 a year revenue would be generated by that. So, it'd be paid off in 10 years. Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good return on investment. It would >> for a pool. the pool >> for uh so that's kind of a that's exciting and I guess you answered the other question which is the payoff period for the um solar panels we don't have any way of judging that but >> not not exactly because like I said the the bills come in and it's based on market rate and then you know it's tough to predict what the sun's going to generate at any given time so um but we can track it over time it usually takes about a year to get that data in and then we have a better idea of you know what's the actual performance of it you know how quickly are we starting to generate this uh you know revenue source from it or offsetting our costs mainly. >> So we're seeing um pools in the metro that have solar panels. >> Are there any out there? We go see what they look like. >> I can't answer that honestly, >> but I I'm sure we can uh research it a little bit and get back to you. >> Oh, that's a good Okay. Well, say that again. >> I said I I can't answer that, but I'm sure we can research it and get back to you. And then what was the energy bill uh for the pool overall last year? Do you know? >> Uh I I do not know. I could get that from finance and get back to you. The utility billing department is, you know, handles most of that stuff. So, >> okay, great. All right. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Member Risser, any questions? >> What happens to the energy generated from the solar panels when the pool is closed? >> It goes back into the grid, right? So, there's there's always a cost for um the building, right? there's there's a minor amount of energy that gets used during the offseason when the pool is closed. Um you know it offsets that cost obviously and then that energy produced goes back into the actual grid itself. So >> okay I appreciate the reduction in cost. The issue I am having is the timing of us moving forward on this project when there are other investments we really need to make. and I'm thinking of the budget as a whole. And so I'm I'm still very much concerned about that. And there's other projects that um I keep thinking about and I know we've been talking about the need to fund fire fighters and all of that, but we also have um and I was reminded of this as I was eating pizza in this very small crowded room over at the police station. we we need to do improvements on that facility as well. And so that is what I'm really wrestling with right now. And it's it's hard to have this come as a separate thing, especially when I know um the goal is to make sure that the um property tax rate is below two digits. And so I don't know how with, you know, money is going to have to come from the general fund to pay this off. And so that's really hard. So just where I am right now. >> Um so just kind of a a quick update on the decision timeline. You know, we we were here July 15th. We talked about considering the tax uh property tax abatement um up to 8.988500,000 8.988,000. I'm sorry, I'm struggling with that. 8.985 million. There we go. Uh and then uh we reported that we back August 6 with a guaranteed maximum price with alternates AMV. That's where we're at today. Um, and then if everything's approved tonight, we would start construction uh late August of this year uh after the uh the pool closes for the season. So about August 25th. >> Do you go back to that prior slide, please? The costing slide. >> Just an observation. I was thinking about um when I first got on the city council, I think we were in a we were in an economic slump back in um back at the time the city hall was built. So what was that 2003 or >> four? >> And so we were wondering whether we should build a city hall or not because we were in an economic slump. But it also meant all the contractors were looking for work. Just to the point you made here a few minutes ago. And we got this building built for $175 a square foot, which now seems like a total bargain, which at the time people were thinking, why are you putting all that copper on there? And and so it's there's two sides of this thing. I mean, you you you see it in the pricing that member Jackson and member Pierce have raised. I mean, how did how did you go from 700,000 to under 300,000 on alt A? And and it just makes you think, well, yeah, to member Risser's point, there's other places that we need to do things, too. But you might be smart to just do this when it's coming in at less than half the cost you projected it to be because of some things that are going on in the broader economy. So, I don't know, just something to to consider as we as we contemplate whether to add alt A and alt B to the which I suspect will be the passage of the or the approval of the balance of it and that contract with um contractor with H andu H plus U. Anyway, other questions from council members or observations? Um, what are council members thoughts on the alt A and alt B? You know, we've had some conversation about it. Some good questions have been asked. If we go with alt A and al alt A and B plus the contracted costs were still half a million under what we thought it was going to cost us for just the cost of construction. So thing to contemplate too. Council member Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So I'm concerned about the solar panels. Um I've seen them at parking lots and I know they have a certain amount of um they're shiny and they're not uh light impervious, right? They're capturing the light and so there's no sort of filtered shade like we're accustomed to. Um, and I just don't know what that experience would be like. And then, um, I don't think anything would happen where they'd get broken or something, but it's glass in the pool. Um, and just the visual of that makes me nervous. Um, I'm sure you would not approve something that wouldn't be safe, but um, but I just I can't I'm having a hard time picturing so solar panels and I just don't know what the payback is on them. Um, I guess I wish I could go see and do we have to make a decision on this tonight? Pretty much >> um, actually the way the contract is written, um, we, uh, can make a decision on the base bid, right? with a guaranteed maximum price of 5,30,28 $827. Um, alternates A and B um can be decided later or they can be decided tonight. Um, if they're decided later, we just add them in as a change order. We've already got the pricing for both of those. Um, I would uh um to answer your other question though about you know the light um I guess you know emission through those. Um they're not installed in a flat manner. there is an angle to them to capture the you know the the greatest amount of sunlight as you possibly can. So there will be some light that um you know is able to transmit through both of those panels when there have spacing on them. Um as for glass breakage, you know, they're installed on top of roofs everywhere throughout the city, carports, things like that. It's tempered glass, so when it does break, it doesn't, you know, shatter into a million pieces. There's a laminated film on there, so it stays attacked to the panel. There's plenty of them that break and are still functional. um you know a diminished rate of function, but they're still functional for you know the life of the panel still. So it's pretty common for hail and things like that to come through and and crack a few panels, you know, sometimes minor, sometimes major. >> Well, I think the alternate A is a is a slam dunk at that cost. Um I guess I I'm still I should be pro solar, but I just I don't know. It's it's too new for me to process. You want to hold You mean do you want to hold off until we know what kind of re costs there has been on energy production? Yeah. >> Or energy costs have been the last couple of years. I mean we don't have to act on all A and B tonight. >> Yeah. >> Take it up at the next meeting after we get more information. >> Okay. >> Hurry. >> Yeah. Mayor, can we just clarify with Derek? Alternate B doesn't actually currently include the panel installation. This is just the structure that we have existing that we'd be replacing. >> That is correct. So the actual panels, if we didn't want to put them on later on, that's a separate um fund that we're paying for with the the sustainability funds. >> So go back to the view though, but we got a grant for that. I thought I'd heard you >> the view of the A and B >> A and B. So uh >> there we go. >> Yeah. >> So alternate B that is the the existing shade structure that needs to be removed um for construction to happen. And part of that is access to the filter room, but also because the supply lines for the pools run directly underneath there in concrete. So, um, one way or another alternate be that shade structure is coming out of there and we'd just like to be able to replace it with an ex, you know, like for like replacement basically. >> Okay. Well, that that makes a lot more sense. >> So, the member Jackson's concern, you could replace that with solar panels or a tarp. That's >> but we would never do that. But um the material you use to cover it, you could choose that at a later date. >> Correct. Yeah, we we currently have a shade cloth up there now to provide that added shade. It's a you know, it's a simpler joist kind of like a pergola structure. Um so yeah, whether it's it's a solo solar panel and photovalic or whether it's a shade cloth, we can install either of those after. >> Okay, that that helps clarification. then I'd be in favor of that because people are asking for it and that's good that we can provide that. >> Yeah. Member Pearson, >> I I do think I've never seen one, but I do know that they would be translucent and I think it would be a pretty cool effect. Um, it's not hot underneath, not as compared to if you're, you know, not shaded. Um, and so I think it could be a pretty cool effect underneath because sunlight does come through. But, um, I totally get where you're you're coming from. Um, and we can make that decision later. The only comment I had Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Just go ahead. I'll wait. No, go ahead. Go ahead. >> I think from a from staff perspective, we are hoping that you will act on this positively tonight. You know, like a school project, there's a lot of planning that goes in so that when the last day of school goes, they're in there and they're working and and because they've got a hard deadline to get out. This is kind of like a school project for us where the pool closes and we've got to get make sure everybody's mobilized and on site and they got to get it open because we don't want to incur all this cost and then not be have the ability to generate some revenue at the pool in the spring. So that's that's why it's important for us. >> Yeah. Um the only other comment um I was going to make um and just being completely transparent as I sit and I look at this and we we've talked about it before. um like we're members at Interlockan and when I sit and think about there's a pool there, there's a pool at ECC, there are lots of I won't say lots, but there are many members in Edina uh that attend these country clubs. Um, like it would be hard for me personally to say, "Well, no, let's just shut it down knowing that I'm privileged enough to be able to have my daughters go to IC or or go to ECC with one of their friends." Um, and so there is a little bit of for me this equity piece. Um, and I'd be willing as a resident knowing that u the the patrons at our aquatic center um you know many of them don't have that ability to be able to go to some of these other options. Um, and just personally for me, I that is one of the things I would say, yeah, I'm willing to if that's going to increase my taxes by some percent to provide that amenity for uh those that live or frequent Edina and for me personally, it just feels like the right thing to do. So, I was just sharing that um in a transparent and sincere manner. Another thing I've thought about since our last conversation on this was in the face of an ever warming world. Seems to me that if we, you know, you look at those temperatures down in Phoenix and if we start warming here more than we have and you know where the trend continues on warming to have a place for kids to be able to go or adults to swim. It's a public pool and having a really decent facility not only to serve our town but regionally I think is something to be thinking about too in the scheme of things. I had somebody call me and ask me I was a contractor and uh you know that existing pool room how come you just can't add on to that existing infrastructure room? Why do we have to have build a whole new building? That was one question I got. I don't know if you could I think you told us why. Yeah. Would you tell us again please? >> Of course. Yes. Uh so the reason we can't just modify the AC room ties back to the balancing tanks right the balancing tanks are what takes the overflow of water once the pool reaches capacity right so the bodies displace the water it has to go somewhere that's not down the drain um those existing tanks uh were constructed at a period of time when they you know we have a much smaller you know requirement at the time um code now dictates them to be larger and anytime we go in to make an improvement to the pool specifically a major improvement like this we have to bring the rest of the pool up to code. And those balancing tanks are really what's requiring this. So, um, increasing the size of the balancing tanks is a is a huge portion that that we're going to have to go ahead and um, you know, account for with this new building. That's that's a big, you know, chunk of the square footage. >> Yeah. Okay. Thanks for that. >> And then, are there solar panels on alternate A or not? >> Uh, we we had shown them in an early rendering. We we currently don't have them, but it is possible to install them if we choose to. So, at the time we were looking at sustainability funds through the cast fund. Uh, we were able to afford alternate B. We knew um that was a like forlike replacement with the shade structure. We'd hope we would be able to move forward with it. Uh, alternate A, um, it can be installed. We just have to identify a funding source and then, you know, go through the process with that. >> Um, manager Neil, you've discussed this with your staff people. What are your thoughts about alternative A and B? Well, we we think that the the time to do that if you're going to do it is while this project is is under is underway. Um we it it's going to be, you know, part of this is a replacement. Um we think if we're going to add this now that this contractor would be the one that would would be able to do that at the best possible price. >> Director Verder, your thoughts are comparable. >> Uh yes, Mayor. Um our support would be for alternate A and B. One is just it meets the needs of our users. It allows an additional revenue capture as well for us from an operating side. And then to replace that shade structure is pretty important for us from an operational standpoint. And the great piece of connectivity and streaming is Tracy Peterson, our assistant uh parks and recreation director, just uh sent me a message that the Lake Noma main beach has solar panels. uh the East Phillips Cultural Center and Dr. Martin Luther King Park in Minneapolis. And we can get you imagery and some additional details on those to compare and contrast as we debate the actual solar or not solar piece of this project. >> And I suspect that the nature center up in St. Louis Park has solar. >> I think it probably does. Yeah, >> I believe it does. It's a net zero facility. Um I don't know if it is on a shade structure or just on their roofing portion of it. we can get additional information for you especially as it relates to >> aquatic center sighting. >> Would someone on the council care to make a motion to approve construction contract amendment with H plus U construction in the amount of 5 million30,827 and also um approved um alternates A and B. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Rejection moves. Pierce seconds the uh approval of the construction contract amendment as stated with H andu construction and then adding alternates A and B to the construction contract. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say I. >> I opposed. >> Nay. >> Carried uh one nay for three eyes. The matter carries on a simple majority vote. Uh that is approved and we go forward. Thank you for being here. And now we're going to move on to the funding part of it. And uh back to director Towel and Mr. An Hut. We get done some more work here. Great. So, um, last time we brought to you the issuance, uh, for 2025B, which includes funding for the city's portion of the Highway 100 interchange project, as well as the aquatic center improvement that you just saw, uh, presented by director um, Perry Veter and facilities manager Derek Autton. So, we are going to talk to you about how do we fund these projects. So with us, Nick. >> So as a recap, the council held public hearings earlier uh this summer to consider the ability to issue debt for these projects. Um and just to put some numbers to what uh director Tao was mentioning. Um in those public hearings, the proposal was for 11 million uh 235,000. 2.25 25 million of this would be for the uh Vernon a Avenue and Highway 100 uh project again to be repaid through a dedicated tax levy. Uh the council did uh adopt a resolution to establish a street reconstruction plan for bonding purposes uh back in July and is currently within a 30-day petition period uh that is open for that uh question. Um that petition period will sunset uh August uh 17th or the end of August 17th. Um in addition uh funding for the project that was just approved uh by the council, the aquatic center facility project. Uh the public hearing was held for issuance of up to 8.985 million to fund that project. uh with and I should note that the costs that were just uh shown on the previous slide came in lower than that estimate. So we would be able to potentially reduce that amount by about $410,000. Um but that public hearing was held and that abatement was approved. Um it looks like I'm skipping ahead. Our estimates uh for the highway 100 interchange compon component of this project, we do anticipate a levy impact of about $212,000. It would be repaid over a 15-year uh period of time. Um this is based on uh some estimates that we put together before the bond sale that was held today. So it is using a bit of a uh conservative estimate about.35 percentage points above where we think uh you know comparable to what you just awarded today. Um so we are still estimating conservatively if it were to price today come in a little bit lower. you expect something closer to a $200,000 levy impact for the abatement portion for the aquatic center uh facility. Also proposed to be repaid over that 15-year time horizon from a tax levy. Uh the initial impact would be about 466,000 for your fiscal 2026 budget and then it would ramp up uh we're doing interest only for the first year and then ramp up to 885,000 uh for the levies uh for the fiscal years thereafter over that full 15year time horizon. Again, we put these together for your packets before we knew that you were going to take action and have a lower uh construction cost. If we were to be able to lower that bonding amount anticipated, just to to paint uh a picture, we'd probably expect about a $40,000 reduction to these figures that are on the slide. Um so that that would be expected just from the lower project cost. Um so there is a resolution before the council to uh consider moving ahead and scheduling a bond sale for these particular projects. It would be called the series 2025B uh series of bonds. The wouldbe general obligation bonds funding the the street reconstruction component for the highway interchange project as well as the aquatic center facility improvements that were just presented in the previous uh agenda. The resolution is stated uh in an amount uh up to 11,235,000 to fund those two components. Of course, uh we would work with staff to fine-tune that and lower the actual borrowing need based on the construction bids that were awarded um and reduce that by about $410,000 as I mentioned. So, there's no need to change the resolution. That authorization is already uh built into the resolution to allow uh at the recommendation of staff to reduce the amount to only what's necessary for the projects. This would schedule that bond sale and bids to be um uh solicited for award at the council meeting on September 2nd. Um and so the council would be presented with the results of those bids and then have a resolution prepared to consider uh awarding and accepting on the basis of the lowest potential interest cost. So happy to to stand for any questions on that front. Um, we do recommend that since the council has now approved the project that it move ahead with the funding aspect as well. >> Question is for Mr. Anhut. >> Council member Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, this is a a question for Director Tao. Um, we had some surplus money last year and if we were to dedicate some of that to these bonds, would we be able be able to do that? I guess it's for both of you. Um, or is there a penalty for prepayment? >> I don't think there's any penalty for prepayment on the bonds. We can use it in a couple way in terms of offsetting the amount to bond for or like you mentioned, prepay the bond down. I don't think there's a repercussion for paying it off early or in it more than the amount. Correct, Nick? >> Uh, we'd be able to set aside the money to offset levy needs uh over the next couple of budget cycles. Um so you would essentially be saving money to use for the debt service payments instead of levying a new one. You would of course once those funds ran out adjust your budget to levy appropriately for the remaining portion. Uh so that is one avenue that you can pursue. But the other avenue as as director Tao mentioned is that we could appropriate that money and make it pay for the project expense and lower the amount of funding that's necessary from the bond issue as well >> because there's a penalty in the market for bonds that can be called early. >> A new issue uh we would um we don't have to we can make them callable. um the interest rates that I was showing and assuming for this transaction assume that they would not be prepayable for a minimum of an eight-year period. Doesn't mean you can't set aside the money and use it to offset levies, but >> I think that would have the more direct impact actually too. >> If we did make them prepayable at any time, that is something that we can do in the council's direction. I do think it's going to cost us in terms of the interest rates that we're going to be locking in and paying. >> Well, the whole point of that would be to avoid interest uh payments. So, it's kind of self-defeating to do that. >> So, there's some other alternatives. I think I think really if you do want to use those funds, you consider appropriating them to pay a portion of the project expense um or setting them aside to offset levies on a temporary basis. But if we approve, you know, approximately $11 million tonight and it goes to sale before our next meeting or I guess we have a meeting on the 19th, >> you will have another meeting before we actually go out to with the solicitation. So there will be an opportunity um if there needs to be another action of the council. Uh like I said, the the resolution actually just authorizes a a cap, >> okay, >> and allows for the adjustment to come down. Um but yes, there the timing does work out that there is another council meeting before uh the formal solicitation period would go out. Um so we could adjust at that point in time. There's also, you know, opportunity for the council to uh fine-tune the amount further on the actual day of sale. U but we'd like to avoid that if we need to or if we can't. >> Yeah, being complicated is not my goal here. Our plan was to bring back that that same matter though to your next council meeting, the August 19th meeting. >> That's helpful. Thank you. And then uh Director Milner, you may not Oh, do you have something follow up on that? >> Just with that followup, I'd maybe recommend if you guys want to talk about the amount of surplus that you are considering that maybe we can look at what would be the most, you know, the best financial move when we come back on the 19th. That might be a way to give us a little bit of direction. I would maybe recommend looking at the tariff amount and the contingency amount that were laid out on that spreadsheet that Derek has just because we don't really have a good idea of what the tariff impact might be. So that might be something where we can use the surplus and in the circumstance there isn't a tariff. We would not be taking out interest on that bond and not having a tariff. So that might be one that directing the surplus towards that could be helpful. Um, that'd be an interesting discussion next meeting. >> It was close to a million, I think, wasn't it? 800 and some thousand for the tariff contingency. >> Yes. Yes. >> So then, director Milner, I have a question for you. You may not know the answer to this, but we're doing the bridge out here, getting rid of the clover leaves, and there's going to be some land there. Do we have a sense from mind what it would take to convert that to Edina land? Would that would there be a cost involved in that or have you had that those discussions? >> We've started it. We've started discussions. Um manager Neil said it should be zero and they said it should be fair market value and but we did get a email just recently saying they're working on it. So a surprise with no number. They just said they're working on the transfer of property. So I don't know exactly what that means but we need to follow up this this year. >> Yeah. because what was four $15 million for the fire station site and if we were to buy something in the northeast quadrant it'd be pretty darn expensive and I think you know $2 million bonding to get that well we want to fix a bridge regardless but it'd be nice to say we saved a lot of money from having to go out and find property to buy. >> That's exactly what we want. It should be a transfer of property between the public agencies. In my opinion that makes sense. They're getting a new bridge out of the project. So, we should work together on that slice of property and that's what we're doing now. >> Terrific. Okay. Thank you very much. >> I don't see where there's any kind of an argument around fair market value. It has no fair market value except for us. >> That's uh that's what we say. That's what we say. >> They're not going to they can't sell it to anybody that we would approve. >> Oh, right. >> Including them. >> We're having a polite conversation, but it's getting ready to move to the next level here. But it is something we need to get resolved. this year or at least the upcoming legislative session. >> So, this is an extension of uh member Jackson's concerns about, you know, borrowing as little as we need to and um and if we have to borrow this whole amount and then we're successful in the next legislative session and getting some bonding money for the pool and the bridge, how do we go about, you know, you guys might start thinking about that, too. How do we make the best use of those funds in terms of debt reduction or debt management? >> Well, I can speak to the bridge piece. Uh when we had discussions about trying to get money while it was being constructed, we can't use the funds on anything that's been completed. So, I don't think we would have your normal legislative appropriations be able to use on something that's fully constructed. Typically, they want that before. The aquatic center is >> pretty similar and the legislative session ends in the end of May or early June. So, >> okay. Well, let's look at that bonding law. I don't know if our attorneys looked at that or not or anyway. >> Yep. >> Um, so question for manager Neil. Um, kind of going back to a point um, member Risser made. So on the next council meeting, the 19th, we also have the budget view. >> Yes. I'm kind of thinking we only have one agenda item, but but just curious um in that context of us having that initial budget view and then addressing this particular issue. Uh would we have that more fuller picture >> in a couple weeks? >> Okay. get out of here before 1 in the morning. >> That'd be great. >> We're almost ready. >> Maybe. >> Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. So, with respect to the funds needed for the bridge and the pool, um, we've got them coming back again to us, so we need to at least start the process. Is there a motion to approve resolution 2025-65 which would provide for the sale of up to 11,235,000 in general obligation bond series 2025B for the um uh trunk highway 100 project and the pool. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Jackson moves. Member Pierce seconds adoption resolution 2025-65 for the purposes stated in an amount up to 11,235,000 in general obligation bond series 2025B. Any further discussion? >> Yeah, I just want to say we have to do this or the pool's going to close. It's that serious the state of the of the infrastructure. So I in favor of keeping the pool open. Okay, other comments. All those in favor of adoption of resolution 2025-65 say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. >> Uh three eyes, one nay. the resolution 2025-65 uh authorizing sale of up to 11,235,000 in general obligation bond series 2025B for purposes of funding our obligations with respect to the bridge over trunk highway 100 and pool uh is approved um manager comments I don't think we've had any correspondents come in Kirk Ellison Okay, she's saying no, no correspondence has come in. Uh, man, your comments. >> Thank you, your honor. Just uh very quickly to I'll just reiterate something we've talked about a couple of times this morning or already today. Uh the August 19th work session uh will be our chance to preview the my budget proposal to you. Uh we'll do that in the work session and we'll have some discussion. I'm I'm sure we'll have some more discussion about it at the meeting itself. Uh but then we'll need an action from the council to approve the preliminary levy on September 16th. So roughly about a month later. >> Okay. Um Risser, anything for the good of the order? >> Well, it's late. Last time I did not do my report for Duth, but um I do just want to briefly say how much I value being able to go to the um conference up in Duth and I do think at the state level there is so much value in attending those events and I did learn quite a bit. Um, one thing that really kind of struck me, I did go to the taxes, taxes, taxes um, panel and they did say, you know, if you are looking at property taxes, and this is not going to be a very this is not a this is sort of a politically suicidal thing to say, but um, and you're just looking to cap it at a particular rate. um and you're not looking at your vision and what you really feel your city needs, you can really end up painting yourself into a very unfortunate corner and that really stuck with me. So anyway, uh but it was really something that I very much appreciated. So thank you. Um and that is all I have. Okay, >> member Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, first this was announced um before our last meeting and I didn't remember to say it. Our finance department um is highly decorated and they there's a um organization called the government finance officers association and our finance department has been honored in all three areas in which they have um awards and I want to congratulate them. So, it's a certificate of achievement for excellence in financial reporting, popular annual financial reporting award, and the distinguished budget presentation award. And I just want to thank them all for their really good work and congratulations. Um, I want to thank uh Officer Nick Donahghue for putting together our uh city response to our city involvement in 1998. That was really awesome. I got to go out with Lieutenant Benny and Joel Bostonramm, our um uh crime analyst who also operates the drone. It was a great evening. I want to thank all the neighborhoods who held parties. Uh it was I really enjoyed it and I think it was a big success. Um so thank you. Thank you to the people who helped us get out there and thanks for the parties. Uh the last thing is there's a lot of action and this is from my fellow members. um a lot of action at the federal level about changing um EPA regulations and climate change and I am uh in the leadership of a group called the city's climate coalition and I wondered if you guys uh would approve if I got to work on some res resolutions um incl uh that the federal government needs to continue to recognize um global warming and climate change and I I would appreciate your feedback on Yeah, but that's it though. So, if you guys have comments, >> give that a little bit of thought. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> So, thank you, >> Pierce. >> Uh, nothing uh from me to report. Oh, I I should just make the statement that I did not participate in Night to Unite this year, unfortunately. Um, you can probably tell I'm still a little under the weather. Um, and so I definitely missed being able to do that um, this year. Um, but that is why no one saw me. Uh, because I was I've been at home um, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. Today is the first day I actually went to work. Um, so definitely miss that. And I will offer if if um a particular neighborhood wants to meet, just shoot me an email. I'm happy to still swing by. Um, as long as the weather's nice. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. >> Yes. Thank you. I just quickly report out and affirm what everybody else has said, too, about what an enjoyable night it was last night. um manager Neil and the chief and I went to um Centennial Lakes uh Point of France, Brookview Heights, stopped over uh on the east side uh at one of the other parks and they were just kind of wrapping up and then when the chief dropped us off, we did drive down to Weber Park, but they were already hauling tables out of there. So figured there was no sense in coming, you know, going there 8 I think it was like 8:10 when we got down there. But uh uh and we also stopped at a party over on 66th Street and it was all they were all good and people were very receptive and were eager to hear what the chief had to say about the crime data and um and the things that we're working on with respect to the flock technology and the you know license plate readers and and then starting to look at uh drone uh usage on a more active basis which I think is a smart thing to be doing too. Uh when you think about the ability of those drones to get up and cover, you know, cover go wherever they need to go in about a minute, minute and a half. Um so uh that's it for me for tonight and member Risser has just thought of something. >> I Yes. And I have been remissed because I did have a wonderful time going out with Lieutenant Schultz last night and we toured um many different parts of Edina and it was great seeing him message about, you know, walk around the clock and talk to the kids and the stickers and keep your garage doors closed. And then we went to my party and I could identify my house easily because the garage door was open. Um, so that was a little, you know, reminder of all of that. But it was a really good time. So that was a really nice thing. So thank you. >> Okay. Anything else? Um, is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Member Jackson moves. Member Pierce seconds a motion to adjourn the city council meeting of the city of Dana this Wednesday evening, August 6, 2025 at 11:02 p.m. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adjournment say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. >> Carried. We stand adjourned.