[0:00] let me know when you're okay all right well good evening everybody it is the [0:06] city council work session for the city of VI city council it is January 21 2025 got a couple of interesting topics [0:13] I think one more fascinating than the other and I'm not talking about the Aquatic Center pump [0:19] room I'm talking about the library and uh that's when we're taking [0:25] up first which is appropriate so we'll save the pump room for the uh last five minutes or [0:32] so okay um anyway we're going to turn it [0:37] over to per veter our park and rec director who's going to help with an update but first let's go around the [0:43] room and introduce ourselves we need to do roll call too so um you want to do roll call uh I'm [0:49] calling the meeting in order counc herec [0:55] herec here here here and then let start back with you again chair and introduce [1:01] yourself please and speaker har vet Parks and Recreation director Scott Neil the city manager Kate AG Council James [1:08] Pierce councel J hin councel carollyn Jackson councel Julie rer councel Ari [1:14] lens assistant city manager Laura wesland arts and culture commission Jen Faith arts and culture commission an [1:21] Marie curtain arts and culture commission Alana Zaron arts and culture [1:26] commission Ryan Browning IT director L fon Edina Art Center Janette Colby Edina [1:32] Art Center I am Jennifer benad I'm the communications director I'm Nick Anheim [1:38] I'm a Financial Consultant for the [1:44] city D facility manager Li Johnson City Manager hello uh Tracy Peterson [1:49] assistant director of recreation facilities Hotel Finance director thank you all right Perry back [1:56] to you right thank you mayor members of the council this evening we're going to talk give you update on hopen County Library project and also the D Art [2:03] Center collocation within that um I always joke that if it's been longer [2:08] than 30 days we need to remind you so um just a brief bit of history on how we kind of got to this point uh the history [2:15] of the art center so most of you know some may not is that uh Lee and Ross [2:20] Miller built a home um in 1948 and lived there until they sold the property of [2:25] the city of Ed in 1976 uh shortly thereafter the Art Center was opened within that home uh [2:32] 1990 and 1997 uh two expansions were conducted and then ever since 2007 um we've been [2:40] in a study uh study and report on the edana Arts Center with uh several [2:45] planning efforts uh none of them have moved forward uh in I'll kind of skip ahead but um we'll [2:53] kind of get back to some of these uh more recent dates here in a second um [2:59] the city council uh retreat in 2021 we kind of talked to you about a spectrum [3:05] of options uh for the arch Center and we really looked at it kind of in uh six [3:11] kind of spaces that we could move forward in um all had positives all had some drawbacks uh the first was just art [3:18] as a program and that's currently because of the facility condition of where uh Laura and Janette and team are [3:23] operating now and that's really just programmatic sense of art um we looked at adding a pottery only space we looked [3:30] at Art in a commercial Zone uh we looked at 50th in France we looked at near [3:36] Centennial Lakes Park we also looked art as an industrial area we looked at areas near the bus garage and throughout the [3:42] the community in the industrial zones uh we also studied the art center renovation and kind of eliminated that [3:48] out uh one area we did not really spend a lot of time in in 2021 is where we are today is kind of art as a Consortium and [3:54] that's uh with another partner um initially we kind of looked at art as a partner with another Arts type [4:01] organization not necessarily collocating within a library uh some of the most recent uh [4:08] Art Center studies in 2019 um upon arriving we really looked at the art center from an architectural building [4:14] code standpoint and really looked at those deficiencies in its current facility primarily the pottery area uh [4:21] the art center does um operate programs and classes there currently however it's [4:26] only on the first floor uh we do not use the lower level Pottery area that was uh primarily the most efficiencies were and [4:32] we also did not have Ada access to the mezzanine or the basement as well so that kind of um allowed us to actually [4:39] still function there but it's really just pre-registered programs in 2021 is [4:45] when that kind of reopened based on U the covid-19 pandemic that we were shut [4:50] down for uh heading into that we really um spent some time with the arts and culture commission uh with our staff and [4:58] looked at a kind of a pottery forward study about you know we're currently doing art as a programming where could [5:03] we do art um we were still missing that pottery and three-dimensional art aspect [5:08] um at that time we kind of wrapped up a study we met with the city council in a work session and kind of the initial um [5:16] reaction was this is nice but we actually won an art center um so we started studying some more we started [5:22] doing some space planning with the commission um and we really kind of finished that in 22 and 23 and what we kind of found is we [5:29] compared um that initial Pottery forward study which was really um on the far [5:35] left was remodeling Fire Station 2 um once uh fire operations mooved to the [5:40] new facility and in that gray box kind of represents uh the left hand scale of [5:45] this chart and really that was at that time in 2023 was just shy of $3 million [5:51] and that would have been about 5,000 sare ft um which is the right Axis of the chart uh in the center was the [5:58] pottery Center new build um that was to build a brand new Pottery Center kind of having everything we wanted in it [6:05] roughly around 177,000 Square ft the price tag on that was about 14.6 million [6:10] and then to go to the full Arch Center build with what um kind of those standards are would be around 40,000 [6:16] square ft and it came with a price T of $31.7 million so the arts and culture [6:21] commission looked at that studied that however it never came to the city council uh because this topic came up um [6:29] and and that was the collocation and the partnership with henen County Library so as you all know they approached the city [6:35] and said we are building a new library at the South Tail location and what would it look like to have the Arts [6:41] Center located within that um so we really kind of started from that partnership potential about how is this [6:48] advantageous and I think you've seen this slide before but again it really kind of took some of the needs of the [6:53] library some of the needs of the art center and really combined them in on the shared infrastructure and that's [6:59] really where when we get to some later charts you're going to see that benefit uh really come to fruition because um [7:06] you know things like vertical circulation restrooms maintenance areas um cabinet areas for HVAC systems all [7:13] can be shared throughout this um in addition to kind of some Next Level Partnerships that you'll see you know [7:19] towards the tail end um so in addition to like in the building kind of um potential they also [7:26] kind of had the connectivity to the the community potential and that was connecting through um you know various [7:33] Transportation mechanisms in addition is we we found a a mechanism where we can [7:38] connect just from a pedestrian level um from the 9M Regional Trail the Adina prominade through Adams Hill Park into [7:45] the uh saltdale property so we have that figured out as well um again we'll kind of look at [7:52] costs later but um the potential for the um cost benchmarking that was provided [7:57] to us the numbers in Black are all projects of similar size and scope that we had looked at and it doesn't matter [8:03] how big the facility is how small it is is really what can you expect to pay per square footage and that's kind of those [8:09] black uh black dollars you know University of Alaska Spokane some [8:15] community centers some colleges uh some fully public some some [8:20] private and the numbers on the top are kind of what we anticipated we did the math of what the square footage cost [8:26] could be from just that Pottery Center remodel the art Center new build or just a pottery Center new build and that [8:32] average kind of cost was around $650 per square fet um the amazing thing about [8:39] this partnership is because of those shared spaces of what henpen county would bill us is that dollar amount [8:44] comes down to about $370 a square foot so very advantageous to us so we look [8:51] kind of ahead and we say okay those were our original Three models how did we get to this place well um The Box on the [8:57] right is new and that's H and County's facility is going to be about 60,000 Square ft um the art center portion that [9:05] we're responsible is really that net square footage of what we're using and that's right around 18,000 Square ft and [9:12] instead of a price tag of 31.7 million um over that 40-year period of being a [9:17] tenant and not an owner um our price is going to be about 6.8 million so um you [9:24] know about that you know a fifish or so of doing this on our own um for those [9:29] economies of scale and it's really about all that shared infrastructure right we are not building a parking lot we are [9:34] not owning an elevator we are not owning a roof um we are a tenant within the facility I a quick question on the [9:41] slide remind me did we have any even potential locations outside of the fire [9:48] station slotted in for either the pottery Center new build or the full art center new build um that is an excellent [9:56] question council member and we did not so these numbers do not reflect land acquisition either so when you think [10:01] about what you had to do for the fire station that would be in addition to these dollars thank [10:07] you um you saw this uh last year and this is kind of that uh letter of intent structure go back to that PR slide yeah [10:14] absolutely very in us again 6.8 represent both the cost of buildout and [10:20] the projected rent over that term of the lease or don't we know um it would [10:26] include the um the tenant rent payment um [10:33] nonoperating okay so it would be the the payments we make to be a tenant within the library how about the Capital [10:40] Improvements we'd have to make in that uh in the Raw space uh it does not include that in here doesn't include [10:46] that okay over what time frame uh the current structure is we [10:52] would have a initial 20-year lease with two 10year options of renewal and so the [10:57] 6 million is the 20 years um it would be over 40 That's [11:03] 40 okay thank [11:09] you uh so just a reminder um we entered into a letter of intent uh an ly with [11:15] hennipin County over the summer and really just kind of went down these items really the partial ownership remains with hennipen County um we do [11:23] not have any uh outside of an agreement that we establish uh interest in the property [11:29] uh they would be a full owner of the building they would be responsible for all um Capital infrastructure related to [11:36] that building and the surrounding area we would just be a tenant uh they are the primary designer [11:42] of that building from an architectural standpoint um our staff uh Janette Laura [11:47] and Tracy have had an ordinate amount of input into what our space looks like and [11:53] actually have been giving um feedback um related to just the building itself and [11:58] the grounds and he um they would be the primary operating as a building tenant um our [12:05] annual fee for that would be um in the LOI was projected at $992,000 a year um [12:11] building operations we kind of have a similar County over at the Grand View [12:17] Library um we do that annually as well um different ownership structure but [12:22] similar trup on [Music] [12:29] see a little bit about that as well um anything common or shared they would be the primary operator of that and the [12:35] City of Edina would have access to it um same thing with the green space on the exterior side of things we're still [12:41] working through uh we expect to have that finalized this summer over the responsibilities of the exterior um they [12:48] have a massive um uh flood plane storm water system that they need to be [12:54] required to put into that place things like that would be 100% theirs um some of the Green Space that we would use for [13:00] outdoor education we'll probably have some sort of a shared aspect to it um they know they have to plow snow already [13:06] so snow removal were Trends to be more on more on henpen County side as well so [13:11] um they've had a a staff change over on one of their leads so some of that's been a little bit paus while they while [13:17] they fill that position uh henpen County currently um if you've been to some of their meetings [13:24] recently they are moving through design development right now preparing construction documents [13:29] the library itself is actually closed now they're beginning a I would call like a deconstruction process where [13:36] they're starting from the inside out of removing all the things that they have within that um and then they are looking [13:42] forward to construction and moving um I know they still have some land use um [13:48] approvals that are necessary but as I was warn you tonight um I'm just going to wear the Parks and Recreation hat and [13:55] we'll leave land use to carry um in the Planning Commission and you as a city Council on what those approvals [14:00] necessarily be but um eventually construction they are targeting a move in and opening right around that third [14:07] quarter of 2027 to kind of give you an idea of of where we are in this [14:13] process uh Tracy and team um have been working with uh web management and [14:19] that's really kind of the next phase for us we did a lot of work early on on Space needs amenity needs uh planning [14:26] for what it would look like this is really where we are on the um program analysis facility management Staffing [14:34] analysis so we're working on that now to develop what that looks like uh web management is going to help us put [14:40] together like a fiveyear performa as well um when we finish that thing really just um kind of what are we going to do [14:47] from programming to Staffing to how we operate as an art center um going [14:55] forward um we also described a little bit of community engagement when we first started this project um and that's [15:01] really kind of a tricky piece because we are not an owner we're going to be a tenant so that was a little bit limiting [15:06] for us uh staff has been at all of the henpen county engagement meetings always having an art center presence um the [15:13] arts and culture commission I can't thank them enough uh current members and even prior members we've often always [15:20] reflected on what would Kathy amla think of where we are today um you know she recently passed away she was a huge lead [15:27] on on doing these tours and Gathering that perspective so the commission's really brought the community perspective [15:33] as a commission and as users of how they would use the space we have a Better Together Edina site be herd henip and [15:40] county is also Gathering that and really uh staff has gone through you know [15:46] Community input focus group interviews um touching base with about 40 um [15:51] community members and we've gathered some online surveys on on some of these facets as well and that's generated [15:57] about 37 plus responses so um jumping in next or I keep going keep going [16:05] okay um um a couple of visuals that hennipin county has provided to us um just so you [16:12] know they did go through a value Engineering Process on henpen County uh Library project here and that has [16:19] changed a little bit about what the libraries looked at from an overall footo and how things are happening um I [16:25] know they'll do more on the land use side but these are just some of the representative Graphics that they've [16:30] provided to us so this would be a perspective of looking on the south property line to the north um kind of [16:36] over that storm water system that they have to include um again kind of that same [16:44] perspective um these are renderings of the second floor um primarily where the [16:49] art center amenities will be it's not going to be all white just the way the the renderings came out it was easier [16:55] from a modeling perspective so expect more from a a branding standpoint and what you're looking at but really the [17:01] picture on the left will make a little more sense when we get to um a couple of further Graphics is that the center of [17:07] the second floor will be open to the uh Library below you'll have um a a walkway [17:13] to get over to the art center um on the left photo on the left side you can see kind of a pan of glass um that's [17:20] represented of the right photo which is an outdoor patio Terrace that's um again [17:25] one of the benefits is these are henpen County spaces um that we get to um appreciate and take advantage of so they [17:31] will have an outdoor rooft uh patio kind of a Terrace piece out there [17:38] um again just kind of respect to Furniture fixtures and equipment will they they buy all that then or do we [17:44] have to uh for anything in the common area they will purchase okay we will just have to furnish the art C we'll do [17:50] our own and then in terms of uh leas hold uh buildout to get it the way we [17:55] want it to look and that 18,000 Plus square feet do we have a sense of what [18:01] that range of cost might be per square foot to do that work we want to do um I believe it's just the furniture and [18:07] fixtures and equipment we had in the CIP right and it's like 800,000 800,000 on [18:14] top of the 6.8 million over 40 [18:23] okay um this is just a a representative of kind of the the overall site and just [18:29] to um um kind of orientate York Avenue on the left 70th [18:36] on the North uh xerx is on the right um all um vehicle entrances will come off [18:42] of 70th is they're planned there will be some surface parking and underground parking um and you'll access the library [18:49] through that um Xerxes on the right um actually has on street parking so that [18:58] will be um an option if it is ever flow for large events or things like that but it will also be parking on that side but [19:04] really the the majority of the site is going to be green um they are doing the [19:11] sp230 rules and I think are they pursuing lead or B3 B3 for an energy [19:16] sustainability aspect um so with respect to that kind of the point is what are we getting [19:23] right um what is what is our flow what is what's been important to the people we've talked to from the Comm in the [19:29] public for the art spaces and this is kind of um the Upper Floor of that kind [19:35] of Representative our 18,000 square feet and what will be in it and are you [19:41] helping with this or this is your this slide makes me happy and this is what I did with the [19:46] arts and culture commission my poter so you're going to mostly come up upstairs right here [19:52] through a really nice area that this is the main entrance into the um building admin is going to be all located over [19:59] here with a few offices but when you come up the stairs you'll be greeted by our reception space here if you're [20:04] taking a class there'll be a screen that then directs you to whichever classroom you're going into if you're not here for [20:11] a class and you just want to come down and enjoy the gallery space or walk down through here there'll be an area to come [20:17] in this will all be glass and you can see all the different stuff in the gallery we'll also have a gift shop available for people to do their [20:23] shopping there's a door right here so that in the winter when we have our holiday gift shop open we can have this [20:30] whole space as a gift shop area and then there'll also be a gathering space for where our campers will have their lunch [20:37] where we'll do some birthday parties potentially but this whole Space will be open for food and um drink and then if [20:45] you come in through here there's a secure area um that'll be open during the day when we have people at the [20:50] reception but we'll have a maker space which will be where we'll do um a lot of different kind of stem classes as well [20:57] as all of the different kinds of arts and 3D printing there'll be a storage area a locker space for our clay folks [21:04] and then we have two Studios a large studio and a small or a medium studio with storage in between and different [21:11] utilities to store their art um and then over here we wanted to keep all the pottery together so there'll be a wheel [21:17] room here A Wheel room here these will each hold up to I believe 12 people per [21:22] class a hand building station that will be up to between 12 to 16 people a mix [21:28] room a mixing room for our glazes a spray booth and then a space for the people who are who have already had [21:35] their um their artwork created and and in the Kiln the first time will then go [21:41] back out and have that glaze put on um and paint all that stuff and then another storage space and then we're [21:47] working to have an outdoor Kiln room with a gas Kiln and a soda Kiln and then [21:53] inside there'll be five five um electric kils for folks to use so that's kind of [22:00] the space upstairs and then this room right here this meeting room will be a shared space with henin County it is [22:06] owned by henpen County but we'll be able to program that space when necessary as well so I think it covered it all and [22:13] that's on the second floor and this is on second floor and the outdoor Ks are on the second floor as well there's like an elevation grade coming off of the [22:20] east side of the building initially we were worried that early plans the outdoor K would be on the first floor [22:25] and we'd be going back and forth but um the grades work out where that'll be on the second floor and then as mentioned [22:32] the meeting room is hennipen County own but we would have access to it so it' be a perfect location for us you know we do [22:38] things like author studio and things of that nature that this would be an additional programming space for us as [22:44] well and remind me if somebody wants to go out on the tffs and and uh have lunch [22:49] or just have a beverage on the first floor was there like a little cafeteria or there's no uh henin county is moving [22:56] completely away from food and beverages so no coffee shop or anything like that nature but they do recognize that people [23:02] do that so you'd be able to there are small seating areas on the main uh floor when you come and come in um but then [23:08] this rooftop Terrace would be only accessible from the second floor but if somebody came in with a you know but if [23:15] Kate had that thing full of coffee or absolutely other beverage absolutely she could take that up there with [23:22] her yep thank you coffee or tea I think is what you're [23:28] saying [Music] right okay so really kind of from [23:34] Imagine space of where we were just a couple of years ago and kind of the short list of what do we want to see in [23:39] an art center um those wants really match up with this plan um there are [23:45] only a few things that were on kind of the wish list that we aren't getting um within that one was a dedicated jewelry [23:52] room right um and just because of the the limit on the number of classes we offer and kind of the expense is related [23:58] to the ventilation of that um my understanding is we can still do jewelry classes here we just won't have a [24:04] dedicated space for it um the other was um a changing room for models um for [24:13] drawing classes um in the gendro neutral restrooms there are some lockers so we would still be able to do that we just [24:19] wouldn't have a dedicated space for that so um so it'll still work in the end so [24:25] that's actually a good question where are the bathrooms are they downstairs [24:30] there it is bathrooms right here okay two bathrooms in the classroom spaces [24:35] and then bathrooms over here along with a bathroom that has an adult changing table okay [24:43] careful good just not very the arts and culture commission saw [24:50] this in December um we've always tried to be um just one step behind henpen [24:56] County so they've released a lot of their information so we always feel comfortable then following up henin [25:02] County with um talking about ours publicly as well so information members feel comfortable about the direction [25:08] everything's heading very yeah it's terrific very much very exciting we always asked them [25:14] like is this a red light a yellow light or a green light and I don't know if you how you feel is last time we talked it [25:20] felt a little bright green so Bri it's neon green I [25:25] think um and really we we do have a lot of work to do yet and um Janette and Laura and Tracy have been doing a bulk [25:31] of this work I just get nominated to give presentations all the time so they get the true credit here um we really [25:38] have to get back and um look at what formalizing lease Agreements are including those shared costs and Lease [25:44] amounts um we have to get back to what does the the operation of the green space look like um we've got some work [25:50] to do on our own um Pro foras and plans of that aspect and then henpen count is [25:56] preparing to move into their 100% design development as well so um so we have a [26:01] number of steps we need to take to 2025 to get to 2027 it was a very good meeting at the [26:08] open house the public open house and really well attended feels like it was forever ago but it was just last month [26:14] yeah like it was quite a while ago and The Architects they do a First Rate job [26:19] of pres presenting I think you been happy with your interaction with the Architects or not [26:27] yeah been fun it's been good so and we've also had um hga representing us um [26:33] as well hga so msnr is the H County architect they've been uh very receptive [26:40] um but I don't know they've built a lot of libraries I don't know how many combo art centers they've built so hga has been a tremendous help is they have some [26:47] really dedicated people in the art side of things that have been helping us navigate through this um you know things [26:52] like trying to navigate these Energy Efficiency standards where I know probably some of our Potters would like [26:58] gas Kil inside the building um potentially or a mix thereof um with [27:04] these Energy Efficiency standards we just have to go to Electric to allow hban County to meet their their uh their [27:10] requirements as well so U but we're definitely making it work is there a heat differential between an electric [27:17] and gas it's more of the um Energy Efficiency standards is that they're [27:22] trying to move away from natural gas to electricity to get the um B3 goals met [27:28] and that's why we can't bring in natural gas but from a hotter standpoint like will it still get as hot is it still as [27:35] effective what are the impacts there I'm going to look over on that side of the room because there's some experience over there with with throwing some clay [27:42] around and not over here we're talking about having the gas killing outside and so that would there is a [27:50] difference in the way that um Clay is fired between electric and gas and most [27:56] um Advanced Pottery program would want to have a gas Kil and a soda Kil which is what we've been talking about um so [28:04] we are looking at doing both okay at a high level can you speak to the difference I'm sorry what's the [28:11] difference between a gas and an electric from a a quality perspective I'm almost thinking like is [28:17] the like the material going to shatter more likely with an electric like what [28:22] is the the physical impact of the difference well it's um it's oxygen [28:28] reduction versus so it's reduction versus oxidation it's kind of [28:35] um it's it it's the way it affects the clay from an aesthetic quality it's not [28:43] um they both go up to the same temperature if you're firing at at a [28:49] certain temperature um but the way the clay acts with the different um physics [28:54] of the injecting oxygen versus taking it away is is it's that's the result it's [29:03] it's just it's an aesthetic thing right thank you we're not going to have more pots [29:09] breaking necessarily pots breaking no well that's that can happen any under [29:15] any circumstances thank you does that answer the question yes and putting the gas Kil [29:23] outside is a health thing too right um [29:29] I think it was a B3 thing putting it outside okay yeah we could have I think [29:35] we could have F away to we would have needed more [29:41] ventilation equipment inside to ventilate more which requires more energy [29:47] which is the notion that uh during the three years that it takes to build all this out that we would keep our existing [29:54] Arts Center open we are going to try um that building is [30:00] in I would say borrowed time um so as I mentioned earlier you know Laura and [30:06] Janette and team have really been uh moving programs around into trac's credit trying to find Space of you know [30:13] using various places for summer camps and various programs at the senior center um at some of our Park shelter [30:18] buildings we would like to try to keep operating there until this building's open but there may be a point in time [30:25] where that facility just shouldn't operate in anymore when I did we don't need any [30:31] heavy wet snowfalls this winter when they did some quick math on the 6.8 million over 40 years look like is about [30:38] 170,000 a year which is roughly in the range of what we spend now I think on the existing Art [30:47] Center I don't know what the operations number is but it seem to me like it's over 200,000 were [30:52] spending I mean even running remember on the income side even running a rough [30:58] Bond projection at you know 7 million would be five times the [31:06] amount again that Partnership of not paying for a parking lot not paying for elevators not paying for shared walls [31:14] really change the dynamic of this because we spent so much time with the commission talking about net square [31:19] footage and grow square footage right is the amount we can use versus the amount we have to build to support that and [31:25] that's really where you're seeing the value over the next three years then how is your analysis going to be done as to [31:32] what we should do with that existing building retain it fix it up tear it [31:37] down scrape it clean up the site but more on that side of things um we did [31:43] talk about doing a master plan for rosin Park and asking people about how they would want to use you know something in [31:49] that location um I don't think it's feasible to fix that building um there's too many deficiencies with it for what [31:55] you would have to do in input um I hope we can operate till we open this with Arts programming there but really I [32:02] don't believe that building's Sal salvageable and I think we should take the time to ask the public about how they want to use Rosland Park and how [32:09] this area can kind of help interconnect I mean there couldn't be [32:16] some sort of smaller facility there in the future but it's this me built in 1948 we're you can see [32:25] it I mean personal opinion I'd be leaning towards the notion [32:31] of scraping it clean up the site have it all naturalized that would be part of [32:36] the park until we decide until people tell us what they want to do with it correct we wouldn't need people to tell [32:41] us what we want to do to deconstruct that building we could deconstruct it make it the area stable and safe and let [32:48] it be a park until we can find a higher and better use I think you'd also get a better [32:55] sight line along that Ridge line that sits on to see what's possible [33:04] there okay questions from comments or how [33:10] about uh all the arts and culture commission members any other thoughts or [33:15] that you want to share with us it's really exciting and I was at the meeting at the library in early December and I [33:22] mean the ex the exposure that our art center will get in this location is pretty extraordinary I mean the soud [33:28] library is not just any Dino Library it's a Richfield Library it's a Bloomington library I mean this the our [33:35] community really expands in this location and as you can see it's it's so [33:40] visible in the building like you walk in and you look up and there's the art center so I think having a gallery [33:46] having a gift shop will bring more people it will really expand our opportunities tremendously and people [33:53] really miss the pottery that we're not able to have at the current Center I [33:58] think that's um something people will be very eager to return to it's a very [34:04] popular part of almost every Community Art Center I think so hard to have those PS at home be so beautiful that people [34:11] are going to be disappointed they can't come there and have a beautiful or wonderful lunch like the The Walker you know [34:18] because this will this will be even nicer I think in terms of his outdoor amenities and I think there'll be some [34:23] yeah I mean there are beautiful outdoor spaces and so we and actually we have a little bit of [34:30] just unofficial anecdotal information but since the SD library has Clos the [34:36] Grand View library has picked up in attendance and we've had a number of people Tracy mentioned the other day [34:42] that they would come downstairs and say I always heard we had a senior center but this is it so they're coming down right so just that exposure of users to [34:49] that I can only imagine the exponential um visibility that the art center will have in this location [34:59] I think the work that Perry and Tracy and Laura and Janette have done on this is phenomenal I personally love that um [35:07] it's a partnership with hennipen County Library I think that the Arts Center and [35:12] the library are just very aligned in um just the goals of creativity lifelong [35:19] learning things like that um I love that we can manage cost because I think [35:24] that's one thing we talked a lot about out as a commission to have the dreams [35:30] of a full art center um and the cost was just you know more [35:36] than more than we could probably support um I think it's a great [35:42] location um it's on a bus line which I think is wonderful and just the [35:47] connection to the the city parks and the prominade um I do hope we can stay [35:52] connected too to the idea that this can serve as a community space [35:58] um I'm thinking like after school programming and um access for you know [36:03] students from from schools my my only question at this point um is really just around [36:10] how we implement this New Vision on an ongoing basis I think [36:17] um like in I'm thinking about the operating budget and including programming and operations and what sort [36:23] of Revenue model would be needed and I think there are a lot of options in that [36:29] that you know we could explore as a community because I think building [36:36] something like this um deserves to have a revenue model that can sustain it over [36:45] time yeah that would be [36:54] nice I I just um would encourage anyone that's interested in art centers of the [37:00] study that we did um to participate in the planning for this um included [37:07] minanga Center for the Arts and white bear um Center for the Arts and both of [37:13] them were so supportive they have said you know they'll do anything for Adina [37:20] because they want to grow the art community there was absolutely zero like [37:26] oh that's you know our data or I mean it was like wide open the Arts Community [37:34] wants this desperately I mean metrowide so um if you're interested in [37:41] having a a tour of either one of those facilities and to kind of catch the fever um I would be happy to go with you [37:49] and take you to those facilities and catch the fever of what it means to be [37:55] running an art center and knowing that they've gotten a lot of the flow from [38:00] when Adina closed the pottery and they they they are so excited about growing [38:08] the community like in Adina you know so um I I think it's very exciting [38:15] for uh a Dina like brand I think this will be huge for quality of life and the [38:24] accessibility um that we're bringing to the art I think it it's really moving it from like kind of a fine art because it [38:31] was kind of remote and um not as accessible into a community art center [38:38] and I think that's a big shift and I think something we should be really proud [38:48] [Laughter] of that's all we had for you this [38:53] evening but we want to give you an update F around talk about the pump room [39:00] see some pictures of some rusty equipment [39:06] [Applause] gorgeous we understand you don't want we appreciate it very [39:14] much thanks for your service too yeah thank you [39:40] yeah Nick right there it's good I think my computer went to bed [40:12] okay all right so um on the other side of Rosland Park or within Rosland Park [40:18] is our Aquatic Center and within our Aquatic Center is a pump room right and so uh I will open up and say that [40:24] tonight here with us is uh Derek um oh gosh I am blanking out I'm [40:31] horrible Derek Perry Nick and Ari we're all here you guys have any questions there's going to be some slides that [40:37] Derrick and I will be going back and forth on but um we need to take a look at what is the future of the Aquatic [40:42] Center in terms of um repairs or uh permanent repairs we have to do [40:49] but before we do that um a little bit of history on the Aquatic Center it opened [40:54] in 1958 uh it's uh offers opport unties for recre recreation in and around the [40:59] water controlled environment since uh the opening of The Aquatic Center uh the city has added a feline 50m pool zero [41:08] depth entry pool a shipwreck Express uh zip line and a 27t body slide with a [41:15] 300t tube slide and a Flow Rider as well as outside of the Aquatic Center there [41:21] is the forest playground area uh the the Aquatic Center receives about 75,000 to8 [41:27] 5,000 visitors annually in over just those 3 months that it's in operation [41:32] this is roughly about an average of 850 to 1,000 visitors per [41:37] day uh the Center opened in 1958 and has gone through a variety of changes and [41:42] Renovations since then there has been an evolution in building and pool cold uh code requirements uh in 2021 the [41:50] electrical project happened and then staff has engaged with Professional Services to plan for upcoming repairs [41:57] and projects um I'll go a little bit more into the fix done in 2021 later but [42:03] uh here's what we're talking about today yeah so thank you Pop um so I think we all toured this this summer when we did [42:09] an infrastructure tour looking at buildings and Facilities this is just kind of orientate everybody um and [42:14] refresh them so you'll kind of see that that structure that's in um the lower P [42:19] the middle of the picture excuse me below the Shipwreck is the pump room electrical room it houses all the mechanical electrical equipment that [42:25] operates the pools that includes um the zero dip enry pool a the plunge [42:31] pool that's attached to the water slides and the water slide uh usage as well as just the traditional pool that we have [42:37] so the the Flow Rider stuff is in a separate room um on the other side of the the pools themselves um P kind of [42:43] touched on this a little bit but in 2021 um we had a major electrical failure out [42:49] there um and we've highlighted that Transformer because we wanted to talk about some of the um stipulations that [42:54] came from that failure um when we went through and started to sus through some [43:00] of the issues that we had there we found out that the type of system and power that is supplied to the Aquatic Center [43:06] is old and Antiquated so we really had to kind of scramble to find parts and pieces that could go in there and do it [43:12] um and doing so we said hey look we've got a bigger issue here because we can no longer get these pieces for the [43:17] electrical equipment um we know we're on borrowed time at this stage so we started engaging kind of with Excel and [43:23] talking to them a little bit and said you know look could we you know partner together on this project in some manner [43:29] or form when ultimately the time comes and so we we looked at it U you know talking to them about what what do we [43:34] actually need so we highlighted the Transformer because that's one of the things that is really kind of predicating us um repair the second part [43:40] of it you'll see there is the surge tank Reservoir so we'll kind of get into that a little bit here in a second but as we [43:46] start looking into current pool code requirements through the state for operating of it we realize that the [43:53] surge tanks that we currently have are under sized so a surge tank basically is um if you have your pool at Max Capacity [44:00] the water that's displaced from those bodies going into it has to go somewhere currently ours go into adequately [44:07] undersized tanks and then whatever doesn't get displaced goes down the drain right straight into you know the [44:13] the city sanitary sewer lines um and then ultimately that water has to be made up right so you can't have a 6inch [44:19] depth change um so we're constantly putting clean water down the drain and then refilling it again which is not [44:26] only a an i and I issue as Perry's pointed out but also it's a cost issue [44:31] because we're constantly you know re uh changing chemicals and adding things to make the water balance out there so [44:37] those are a couple of kind of the things that are that predicating it and then the other thing we've realized is that you know the pool hous itself and the [44:43] pump rooms itself was undersized originally right so I'm going to walk [44:49] through a couple of things here and and most of you guys have walked through this already as well but to kind of take a look at it this is a program um that [44:56] will will bring up that's called a matterport and it kind of gives you kind of a 3D view of what the actual building is and we're not going to spend a lot of [45:02] time in here but it's going to kind of give you an idea of um why we're talking about this now so [45:09] you can kind of see this is the electrical panel I walked into this is the entrance in the doorway there but [45:14] some of the issues that we've had with this space is it's really tight and cramped right so maintenance in this building is not easy to do operational [45:22] challenges come um with a space of this size from the costic nature of the room not being able to ventilated properly [45:28] that's led to some of this um Decay and and rust and things like that so we wanted to kind of you know take you guys [45:35] through this so you can kind of see in real time you know some of the stuff that we're talking about here um you'll see these sand filters some of the [45:41] discharge pumps things like that um these things were installed in 2016 right that's not that long ago [45:48] that's eight years ago at this point time nine years ago at this point they're already starting to show wear and tear that all LEDs leads to um the [45:55] need to try and remove some of the environment from the building and talking about how do we um [46:02] you know achieve that one of the things we can do is um really it comes back to building a a new structure um that is [46:10] attached to this that would I you know I'm trying to find the PowerPoint again P sorry right here yeah there um that [46:19] would serve all of our needs throughout the city so we're here to kind of talk through that a little bit I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the design [46:25] portion of it but I'm just going to kind of give you guys an overview of of what we're looking at but so J yep if we make [46:31] a bigger room the Decay will slow down the rust and and corrosion with more air [46:37] and more space we will be removing all that equipment to a larger space um [46:43] which would would allow us to adequately ventilate it so yes going forward we would not see that extreme acceleration [46:51] of Decay or exceeding acceleration of rust so yes great thank you you're never going to remove it from the environment [46:56] entirely because that's the nature of the pool okay so that's that's part of the problem um these are just some of [47:02] the significant issues we talked about a little bit before again reviewing some of those things that we just kind of saw in the matter Port but it's it's you can [47:08] see this is that existing surge tank that we have very very small I mean we're going to quadrupling if not large [47:14] you know larger for some of these things um and then we want to also talk about some of that decay that you're seeing and you also saw in the matterport [47:20] screening um of the gas fired boilers as well as like just the fans this is what is meant to remove the exhaust from that [47:26] room it just it rusted over time it couldn't keep up with the actual cost of chemicals in the room um and then some [47:34] of the structural issues we've had as a result of this as well um we pointed this out we should note that these were [47:40] repaired in 2022 2023 because um we had some concerns that there was the [47:47] possibility of a a structural catastrophe happening in there we worked with our engineers and Architects at the [47:52] time to shore those things up so these repairs have actually been made so it's it's not as as dire as it looks at these [47:58] photos um so we want to talk about what a new room would look like right so you [48:03] can kind of see here where this arrow is off to the left this is basically the footprint of that existing filter room [48:11] right pretty small not ideal operationally you can see over to the right here this is the [48:17] expansion that we're talking about doing so this would allow us to um operate maintain the pool add in those surge [48:24] tanks that are required to be larger by um buing code and then provide us with a [48:29] little bit of bonus space up above right so this is just kind of a a um an [48:35] addied I guess Improvement that we could make so we would gain some additional deck uh square footage and things like [48:41] that um the one thing that we've really really been looking at we'll get into the timeline in a section a second here [48:47] is how do we uh how do we do this project what's the timeliness of this look like right because we are on borrow [48:54] time with the Aquatic Center we've kind of talked about this before um Perry reminded me of this this morning from [48:59] the conversation that um we've kind of been up against this for the last two or three years we had a similar situation [49:05] at the ice arena where we went down this road for a HVAC system and we got to the [49:12] point where we hired and engaged Architects and Engineers like we've done here and while we were in the process of [49:18] Designing it the existing system failed right no ice time nothing we were able to bring in a temporary unit but it [49:23] really just accelerated our replacement thing so we feel like we're kind of at that same space here um so from a [49:30] timeline standpoint we know there's a need now we also know that we can't take [49:36] three months out of the Aquatic season so part of building this new building would allow us to um do the construction [49:42] next to the existing Aquatic Center filter room um keep it an operational stance as long as possible so we're not [49:50] impacting the season of that um and then at some point we're going to have to come to a conclusion of like okay we're [49:56] ready to turn this over and then we would be able to flop systems over from one to the other so we're trying to limit that amount of downtime as much as [50:03] possible uh any questions about that the layouts any of the the expansions and the needs for it okay all right so like [50:11] Derrik mentioned of course after the history of where this Aquatic Center is we know we've done all the bandage fixed [50:17] that we can and so since then we have been doing assessment of the facility including any immediate recommendations [50:23] or fix that we can do uh since then um we have done Concept Designs those have [50:29] began we have done sematic designs and design developments and where we are at right now is that um we are we need to [50:36] on board a construction manager and bid out the projects uh with that with this project it will then cost money so with [50:43] what does that mean in terms of our funding options for this size project and this is why I have Nick here tonight [50:50] with us from Ellers um which he will go through the different bonding or funding [50:55] opportunities that we can use for this Recreation facilities thank you so [51:01] um municipalities can borrow for certain types of projects uh Illustrated through [51:07] the statutes so pardon my voice I'm sorry um you certainly can go out to a [51:13] referendum the rest of us have been there are still trying to get rid of it fortunately I was willing too loudly [51:20] I feel fine and you're lost and we lost sorry man forgot it's all right um there a [51:29] joke in there somewhere feel good sound [51:36] bad L flight move [51:42] on um so the city can authorize debt through a referendum that's always an [51:47] option um in addition to that the city of Adina has other special authorities that we can [51:54] use um there is a special law that has been granted to the city to allow [51:59] funding for recreational facilities as long as certain processes are met and [52:05] there's also another form called uh the tax abatement that the city has not used [52:11] in the past um but that tax abatement is the ability to pledge uh dedicated tax [52:17] levy towards projects that provide a public benefit and it's fairly loose [52:22] with the type of infrastructure and public facilities that you can use it for all three of those options at the [52:28] top as far as a bond is concerned once you go through the process and authorize them they cost exactly the same they [52:34] provide the same level of security to the bond holder there's no difference in the interest rate that you would see you [52:40] can pair them with other projects and funding sources HRA also has the ability [52:45] to finance facilities facility improvements uh through a public project [52:50] Revenue Bond the city has used that in the past in certain circumstances that [52:55] it would be a different form of bond it's a annual appropriation pledge as opposed to IR revical Le Levy and so it [53:04] does price slightly differently it would be a little bit more expensive in terms of Interest costs and transactional fees [53:11] um but otherwise all of these tools can get the project done they are used um I [53:17] you know public project revenue bonds and tax abatement have been used by other communities uh as well uh [53:23] certainly a referendum and then having that special law Authority is certainly something to consider for uh any variety [53:30] of recreational needs um there are some limitations that are imposed um special [53:37] law in particular we are limited in the fact that we do have to demonstrate that the actual Enterprise itself Aquatic [53:45] Center liquor fund and uh those pledged sources have the capacity to be able to [53:52] pay back that debt so the net revenue that they are generating uh pulled together has to be able to cover the [53:59] forecast of debt payments in order to actually authorize it with the referendum and tax abatement you're [54:05] you're instituting a new tax levy to pay for them so you would be uh creating a [54:11] new Reven Revenue Source because you'd be adopting a new Levy um but those are [54:16] subject to uh the debt limit and then uh a baitman actually has its own special [54:21] limitation but when you look at the number it's not a practical limitation for the city of this [54:27] size um next [54:39] SL we wanted to give some context for the potential costs and maybe you know [54:44] different ways of structuring the repayment so just a hypothetical 5 million that's that's my figure it's not [54:49] actually something that we have from a construction bid um but just to get some context around that if you repay that [54:56] over a 10-year term you should expect about $590,000 as your average debt service over that [55:03] term 3.36 rate um and it's about equivalent to a you know just a less [55:09] than a 1% Levy increase just for context you could have every ability to stretch [55:16] that repayment out a little bit longer the trade-off there is is more AC crude interest over that time period but not [55:22] at a drastic change to the the rate that you would be uh expecting ing in the marketplace um and all of these are [55:29] assuming those three um General obligation backed when the public [55:36] project Revenue Bond would be a doublea rating would be slightly higher maybe a quarter of a point higher um for these [55:43] there is some outstanding debt that the um facility has uh been paying back there's two more years two more fiscal [55:50] years this year being one of them before that debt is retired uh about 104,000 per year the center itself has [55:58] you know Break Even operating cash flow but does need the support from other funds if it were to make uh debt [56:05] payments of this magnitude so we wouldn't need to consider either a levy increase or pooling in some additional [56:12] revenue from another [56:18] source just to recap the special law so it has the ability the council can [56:23] authorize General obligation bonds for landb building and equipment used for outdoor and Indoor Sport and [56:29] recreational facilities but they have to be payable from the revenues of those designated facilities which can include [56:37] uh the arena the uh Aquatic Center the golf course as well as the municipal [56:42] liquor operation um we do need to show that the historical revenues will provide the [56:49] capacity to pay for that and then each year the city also is required to [56:54] maintain a reserve basically Bally to set aside cash from those fund from within those funds that is the [57:02] equivalent of the average annual Debt Service that's outstanding on any bonds that have been issued under this law so [57:08] so it does provide some protection you know it does provide some motivation to [57:13] continue to have those funds perform which they have in the past but uh wouldn't be something that we think you [57:20] could bite off for this magnitude of a project right now without moving [57:27] some things around within those Enterprises these are the uh the various [57:32] bonds uh that are out standing right now that the city has uh utilized for a [57:37] variety of different purposes so you can see the you know the biggest one the uh the golf course uh range in part three [57:44] as as well as the significant renovation that occurred uh in 2015 to 2017 the [57:50] arena has has used this law for various improvements that have taken place over [57:56] time um and then the Aquatic Center with the two years that are left [58:02] outstanding than so just to recap and bring it back to the the different options we wanted [58:09] to just you know not necessarily I guess get a definitive answer tonight but just give you some of what we're thinking [58:15] about looking ahead um again we've got a lot of different options that we can utilize but really the difference [58:20] between the ones that are recommended would be um you know the special using [58:26] the special law we'd have to figure out another Revenue solution within those funds um but we can use this tax [58:34] abatement Authority and authorized debt without a referendum for this project um [58:40] the trade-off there being that we would expect that we'd have to pledge a levy towards its [58:46] repayment I'll I'll add quick that um referendum wise time wise with where the [58:52] pump rooms at and we just wouldn't be able to get that past in time to [58:57] guarantee operations of the Aquatic Center throughout next season and even maybe this season so that's the concern [59:04] there timing wise that that we're really we're kind of pushed into a position where we that significantly limits that [59:14] option the at public project one the feasibility side of that is of course [59:19] we'll have to sell the pool the Aquatic Center to the H and I don't know if that's just the aquatic center or is it [59:25] the whole entire par parcel rosin Park parcel and so one parcel currently now [59:31] it's one parcel yeah and would that take it out of the din special law if we did [59:37] that uh we would be using a different type of referendum or bonding Source [59:42] part of the just in general so we couldn't pull the revenues from to pay for uh pool operations either then [59:51] that's a good question we're already um doing that for the existing debt [59:56] obligations so they're they are already pledged to maintaining those um so if we [1:00:01] wanted to unwind that we'd have to Dees all of those other bonds pay them off [1:00:07] and then rewrite the resolutions that that underscore that so no no no I I'm just [1:00:14] asking if we do the HRA do we have to do that kind of unwinding and everything or [1:00:19] is it is it just six one way have does and the other we would not have to essentially we'd be creating a separate [1:00:27] project called the pump house project um we maintain a separate fund [1:00:34] within the city's accounts between the H and the city um we'd have to be able to [1:00:41] designate it as a standalone piece of real estate okay that we could sell to the HRA and that the HRA could basically [1:00:48] offer a bond holder a mortgage on as the additional security behind their their [1:00:54] bond um it gets a little complicated in that way subdivision of rosin Park but [1:00:59] it wouldn't impact the Enterprise itself necessarily it's not a great option that option is the most complex [1:01:06] [Laughter] option so for option one it sounds like [1:01:14] technically probably feasible if there's a lot of reshuffling can you speak a [1:01:19] little bit more to that so we've got foled revenues from the liquor fund the [1:01:24] golf fund the arena and the Aquatic Center the Aquatic Center is kind of a [1:01:30] break even operation the arena is is a negative um golf fund is doing very well [1:01:39] uh liquor fund does well but we've got you know five or six other Bond issues [1:01:45] that they're already kind of sustaining and pledged to if we're going to add on [1:01:51] top of this yes some of this is falling off and it will create some capacity [1:01:56] down the road um but without maybe refinancing some of these [1:02:02] things and getting more creative about creating some more Revenue within those [1:02:07] funds don't necessarily have the capacity to tackle this right now could [1:02:12] in a couple of years but that's going to be too late for type of improvement we're talking about so not feasible [1:02:19] right now unless we can add more Revenue yeah [1:02:26] I don't think we've done a tax payment deal here yet have we no the city has not has not used that um tax batment can [1:02:34] be used for quite a few different types of projects facilities public infrastructure Economic Development [1:02:42] um Eden Prairie did a tax abatement to fund their Aquatic Center I know I think [1:02:48] minaka just had a fitness facility that they acquired they used a tax abatement to authorize the debt to make that [1:02:56] purchase uh is used quite a bit by number of different cities across and it [1:03:02] can be used by the school district in the county as well that structure if we wanted to [1:03:09] pursue that path Nick would help us pick what parcel makes the most sense to bait [1:03:14] a specific piece of property and basically what we're doing is we're dedicating the taxes that that property [1:03:20] pays specifically to the revenue the to pay the revenue on pay the [1:03:26] bond and then you have to backfill that because then you don't want to lose out on what you're already collecting in in [1:03:33] terms of property taxes that are funding operations so the the impact of the taxpayer is is no different there [1:03:40] there's no different they don't see anything different on their tax pill but we need to make sure the budget is able [1:03:46] to accommodate that can the pool operate this coming [1:03:54] season without anything happening that's the million dollar [1:04:00] question the four and a half five millionar question um every season since I started in 2020 [1:04:10] um we've had some type of major catastrophe out there we were able to keep the pool operating but it's taken a [1:04:16] lot of Staff time from both the parks and rec department but also the facility tourament um where we're going in there [1:04:22] and you know making repairs to electrical systems making repairs to with the pumps uh babysitting is a big [1:04:27] thing I I couldn't put a exact dollar amount on it but I would say in the last four years we've probably spent in the [1:04:34] excess of50 to $100,000 of just maintenance between staff and um actual [1:04:40] equipment costs out there and that that's again living on borrowed time the biggest challenge we have is the [1:04:46] equipment is obsolete it no longer um is compatible with today's standards that we can go get off the shelf but there's [1:04:54] not time to construct anything before the season no no we we've yeah every piece of equipment in there is is [1:05:00] specific to that one power supply and we really need to fix that because if we do [1:05:06] have something go down we can't guarantee the pool operation at this point if it if it's not something that [1:05:11] we can fix easily or find a fix to kind of work around it tell us again about [1:05:16] then the timing of the project in your mind what you'd like to do is start like next fall after the season's over is [1:05:22] that it yeah I think where we're at right now is we are finalizing construction documents uh we want to go [1:05:28] out and use the construction construction manager at risk uh method for this so we would be hiring a [1:05:34] contractor who would assist with the final estimates and budgeting and then go out and hire uh the sub [1:05:40] subcontractors Consultants to actually do the work so there's kind of a two contract process here um we're ready to [1:05:48] put that CM at risk uh RFP out on the street in the next two weeks probably or three weeks um that'll take a couple of [1:05:55] months in order to get them up and running um we would then engage them to work on scheduling and hiring some [1:06:01] contractors with the hopes that sometime in this summer and this fall we would see some activity out there um to you [1:06:07] know actually start constructing the new building as we've put together couldn't we run two tracks on this the track [1:06:14] you're talking about and then couldn't we put something together to go to the legislature to get I mean we had 75% of [1:06:20] the people using this are not from Idina it's a regional asset why can't we go and try get some bonding money we can [1:06:28] and we are asking we actually met with representative green this afternoon who will introduce a bill for this her [1:06:35] initial reaction though was in all likelihood she does not have a strong outlook on it but she will carry it yeah [1:06:43] well you don't know unless you's not a lot of confidence yeah I mean and I can see where she's tentative in her [1:06:49] assessment because she's a rookie over there you know she doesn't know what her influence is going to be but we we we [1:06:56] all been try too you know we can be her allies and meet with legislators [1:07:02] and talk about the regional implications of this project just like we did last [1:07:07] year with the sales tax you correct mayor we we roughly kind of project about a 70% non-resident use [1:07:16] of the facility um 75,000 visits in a year is quite High [1:07:22] yeah we're on par with like the Luan water park and Northeast Minneapolis we're about 25 to 30,000 more visits a [1:07:30] year than Richfield you know we're probably 35 to 40,000 more visits a year [1:07:36] than Crystal I know Crystal did get some State bonding money um a couple of years ago they were allocated [1:07:43] something but just the reaction this afternoon was not a [1:07:49] positive we can definitely run a parallel path of pursuing this pursuing a bonding plan so that regard we will [1:07:56] have a plan but also looking into if there's a possibility to get some State funds even if it's just something did [1:08:03] you ask her about the B op of sales tax extension um I did not based on your [1:08:10] Council discussions ago [1:08:15] as it's not on our it's not part of our State Legislative platform I think we thought it would be hard to go back and [1:08:21] ask right away again this sure is another that fits into that category being a regional [1:08:28] asset I bet I bet this would meet that new statutory test that they have for local option sales tax well we asked for [1:08:36] the pool initially with the local option sales tax didn't we think so no what was the third [1:08:43] project that was oh Weber Woods okay this is Centennial Lakes would more [1:08:50] than qualify I believe for their new test we let me clar we asked for we [1:08:57] asked the legislature to give us Authority for Weber woods and they said no residents didn't say no to that right [1:09:05] yeah so if we go with the tax abatement um there'll be General obligation bonds [1:09:13] so if we get additional Revenue coming in um as the old bonds are paid off we [1:09:18] can pledge that to uh pay down these pay these bonds as [1:09:24] well let me the deal could be structured to include [1:09:32] that this is all we prepared for you do you have any other questions I would say the next step is [1:09:38] like Derek said we'll go um once the CM construction management at risk comes [1:09:45] back with an estimate of the cost um they will present it to you guys like how they did for the fire station to and [1:09:51] then we'll have to decide then um if we proceed with this project how are we're going to fend [1:09:58] it all it seems there's really just the one option I know that they we're being [1:10:04] presented with additional options but it doesn't seem like the feasibility of one [1:10:10] or two is really there potentially feasibility in the fourth but maybe [1:10:17] overly complicated with no additional benefit that's very I said this [1:10:23] afternoon this is kind of like your toolbox are your options this is the tool that [1:10:29] might the most of course we lead time do you need on that Nick again sorry what [1:10:35] kind of lead time do you need on that option so the there is a necessary public hearing with a notice that needs [1:10:41] to go out and that notice needs to identify the actual abatement itself so um you know there's probably a 30-day [1:10:48] lead time that we need to plan around when that discussion happens about [1:10:54] making the project a go and getting that public hearing scheduled and then at that point the [1:11:00] bonds can be issued at whatever time we think is most appropriate and likely it would just get matched up with your [1:11:06] other annual uh projects personally this would be my [1:11:13] third choice behind trying to get on a bonding Bill the UN a bonding Bill try to get local [1:11:19] option sales tax we're not doing anything until next year anyway and then tax abatement is back up no mayor there [1:11:25] there is the ability that you could authorize the tax abatement and then we could set it up [1:11:31] like a temporary Bond like we've done of the fire station the intent bu a temporary bond [1:11:37] is you got a short uh it's kind of construction financing you've got a short window you need to repay it within [1:11:42] 2 to three years set up within the statute to allow that and then your pledge is that you're [1:11:48] going to refinance that into the tax abatement after 3 years that can give [1:11:54] you some more time to pursue these these other options if that's something that you wanted to do [1:12:00] or we would just start paying back the tax payment right away in a permanent financing is there a difference in [1:12:05] interest rate but similar to number two requires a ballot [1:12:12] initiative doesn't it if we were to add something additional well no maybe not Chang to it being considered by the [1:12:19] legislature this year if they okay if they have a legis this year we could use our spending Authority without [1:12:26] I know if we still want to go back to the vo where we can extend our spending Authority or just use to it's full [1:12:33] capacity over that 19 years would give us enough money to do not only the projects we have in the que but this one too I [1:12:39] think there would be plenty of money to do that yeah coming in at 500,000 a [1:12:45] month 600 a month 600 a month is that still in moratorium though the L provision stuff number 25 for other [1:12:53] cities that don't have it yeah I think that's important to [1:12:58] recognize though there's no way this problem gets solved [1:13:10] without a while ago but we had kind of two projects Horizon which [1:13:17] wasss concession Etc that is not included in this so it could be [1:13:36] okay thank [1:13:43] you thank you was a rough first was a rough first [1:13:49] half it start out strong it really did