Thanks for that good communication. You know, you had a little bit more trouble with the door. So, well, we got engineers here to help with that, too, if we need. I'm glad everybody's here. We're going to we're going to start here soon as we Oh, we got a green light. All right. Well, good evening everybody. It is uh it is December 8th, 2025. It is a Monday night, which is unusual for us. It's a special meeting. We've been doing this once a year as we go through the effort of kind of methodically going through our town and repairing everything uh from a street standpoint and things that are under the street uh neighborhood by neighborhood. Uh I feel like all of us that live here and own this town together, we're all part of the transition team setting resetting our town for the next 60 70 80 years. So uh those of some of us have been doing it longer than others, me uh probably the longest, but uh it it it's it's there are things that need to be done to make sure that we take care of what we own. And this is one of those uh evenings we're going to talk about some projects and get your input uh on things that are of a concern to you uh and um take that into consideration as we then make a decision here in a couple weeks on on what we're going to do with respect to these uh three proposed projects and how extensive they'll be with respect to the different aspects of them. So, um, before I call the meeting to order, I just want to reiterate what Director Benerro said about we're doing these meetings since during the pandemic and since the pandemic, uh, both live and then, uh, on a hybrid sort of basis, so people can call in from home if they want to. Uh, either with respect to, um, like tonight it'll be just the public hearings, but sometimes there's two opportunities to call in. uh tonight here. If you're watching from home, make sure you get this information so that when it's time to call in, you can do so. We'll put it up on the screen again when we get to the public testimony portion of everything. But, um, appreciate people writing this now and who are watching from home if they intend to call in. So, having provided that information, I'm going to call the meeting to order and ask Carrie Sinning to call the role of the council. >> Thank you, Mayor. It seems that council member Pierce is absent, but we have council member Agnu >> here, >> council member Jackson >> here, >> council member Risser >> here, >> and Mayor Hubland >> here. Uh, next folks is the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thanks everybody. >> And we have uh as we talked about uh and I think director Benerrod did as well, we've got three public hearing matters this evening and that's the only thing on the agenda. And so uh is there a motion to uh does anybody have a concern about the meeting agenda? If not, I'll have somebody make a motion to approve the meeting agenda. >> So moved. I second. Sure. >> Um, I do have one concern because I heard from a couple residents who wanted to make a comment during community comment and we did look into it. If manager Neil could comment on why that's not happening tonight, that would be very helpful. >> Thank you, member, council member Risser and members of the council. We use a different uh style format uh for special meetings and this is one of those special meetings uh that happens throughout the year. Uh this special format looks largely the same, but it doesn't have a couple of items that you're used to. And the most notable is community comment. So it is not it's not been advertised as part of this meeting and it hasn't been ever since we started doing these kind of consolidated assessment meetings about a decade ago. >> Yeah, that would be I think my primary concern. Did you have a follow on member? I I am just concerned if somebody made the effort to come out here and I would like to try to figure out how we could find a way so that there wouldn't be confusion. Um perhaps noting it on the calendar that this is a special city council meeting and public um community comment is not allowed. But I really feel like we need to have clarity on it so that people are not concerned. I don't know if anyone is here for community comment. It is different than that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, this is this is uh independent, I think, from what we're here for tonight. You know, in the normal city of council agenda, there's there's a public comment period where people can come and express concerns that aren't on the agenda that night or scheduled for a future public hearing. And we don't have that because it's a special council meeting. And I'm a little bit concerned that be fact the fact that it wasn't advertised as a possibility to have community comment that we would have a de facto sort of community comment here this evening when uh not everybody would be able to participate or have that opportunity to participate. So, uh, understanding that concern, understanding that we should maybe, uh, better set forth the agenda for a special, uh, council meeting, uh, I would not be in favor of having community comment this evening or or modifying the agenda to have community comment. I don't know what other thoughts are. >> Yeah, I think if we didn't have it on the agenda ahead of time, it would I wouldn't feel comfortable adding it. >> All right. So, we've got uh with respect to the agenda as published, we've got a we've got a motion by member Jackson, we don't have a second yet. >> I seconded >> member. Oh, you did. Okay. My hearing out my right ear wasn't as good as it should have been there. >> I didn't realize that Julia was trying to add something as well. So, or council member, >> I've got a motion to second that my member to adopt the meeting agenda as published. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the meeting agenda is published say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. where the meeting agenda is approved. Uh and now we are on to the public hearing portion of the agenda. And I think what we'll see first is a is a general sort of presentation that'll that'll cover all three matters. Uh and then we'll get to those individual components of the uh specific public hearings for each neighborhood uh independently. Is that a fair summarization? >> That is fair. Thank you. >> Yeah. And this is uh for those of you who know, I think many people know, you've probably had conversations with Chad Milner, our engineering director. And we've got Erin Distler with us this evening as well, our assistant uh city engineer. So, >> and we have a few other staff. Andrew Scipion will also be presenting this evening. Ben Jory and Chris Moore from the >> Thanks for identifying everybody. >> We got everybody tonight to help uh share some information on three three projects. >> Good. Mr. Cypriion was he's he was down there with me on Saturday morning for the Eline grand opening and we had uh some good photos taken and I was really pleased to have some Edina staff down there with us for that grand opening. So go ahead, Director Milner. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mayor, mayors of council. We're here tonight for the 2026 neighborhood roadway reconstruction program to conduct those three public hearings like you mentioned. First, I want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedules to come tonight. We mentioned it's a special meeting. I want to thank the residents that are here and then also staff that makes this happen so we can have this special meeting. So, we'll do a kickoff that'll talk about infrastructure, the project similarities, and the multimmodal information uh that's common to all three uh public hearings and then we'll get into each specific public hearing. So, West 72nd Street, Prospect, Nolles, AC, C, and D, and then we'll end the evening with Parklon Court. So, really, why are we here? So budget pillar number one from the budget work plan is strong foundation. So we want to ensure that that infrastructure meets the community needs now and in the future. And how do we do that? We do that with our multimmoto transportation network, the roads, the sidewalks, bicycle facilities, and mass transit. We want to make sure that our water systems provide that safe and clean drinking water. And that's done through water treatment plants and wells and also the distribution networks that you're going to hear about this evening. We got sanitation is another key goal for our systems and that's really related to sanitary sewer and wastewater to make sure it's going where it's supposed to go. And then we have the storm water systems or the flood protection. So we have storm sewer pipes, lakes and ponds that manage storm water and flooding flood protection within the city. You are going to hear hear this tonight on various projects but it's called the pavement condition index and this is the citywide average. So this is a score of our pavements in town, the roadway pavements. A brand new street is a 100 and very deteriorated streets is a zero. So you can see anything below a 45 is in poor condition. We have fair between 75 and 45 and then good is above 75. And you can see 12 13 years ago we kind of bottomed out at 51 for a PCI index marker. And now we've made those investments in our streets not only in street reconstruction but also maintenance. And now the last couple years we've been at a score of 78 for our pavement condition index. So that's a very good story to tell. And again, there's opportunities to when to invest in the pavements. If we can hit it early in its cycle in that fair uh area, we can put just a little bit more money into it to get it to last longer. The pavements you're going to hear about tonight have been in place since the 60s mostly, and it's just time to replace those complete replacements. So they're really down in that serious failed pavements uh because of their age. And then there's a lot of stuff that people don't see when you travel the streets that also uh help us with our modern ways of life. The storm sewer system, there's over 136 miles of storm water pipes. We got nearly 200 miles of sanitary sewer systems that run down the typically the center of the street. You see all those manholes and there's 21 lift stations. We have the drinking water supply systems with four treatment plants, one underground storage tank, four water towers, and 18 wells. that provide water to over 200 miles of of water distribution pipes, 5,000 service valves, and nearly 14,000 metered service connections. So, those 200 miles are just the public infrastructure, and we have all the private stuff that's also underground and serving each home or commercial property in town. So, a lot of stuff that we have to take care of in town. So, this really defines why we're here this evening. A lot of the stuff that we just talked about was built in the 1950s and the 1960s. So you can see that big blue wave. Uh when it's time for reinvestment, that's not a good thing to have as a wave because we got to have a lot of money to start to invest in that infrastructure. We'd like to flatten that curve out. So that's our our hope here in the next few years is to try to flatten that curve out over those various second and third replacement cycles. So we kind of labeled those things as the buildout cycle was the 50s and 60s. You had that window in the 80s and 90s where you didn't have to do much because it was functioning and doing well. We're really in that commitment to reinvest cycle now. And that's why we're here tonight to talk about a lot of that infrastructure and then we can hopefully flatten that curve out and continue to maintain those for generations to come. So with that, I'll hand it off to to Aaron Ditler to talk a little bit more specifically about this year's projects. >> All right. Thank you. Director Milner. >> Thank you, Chad, for kicking things off this evening and uh highlighting some of our pavement and infrastructure asset management goals. My name is Aaron Ditler. I'm the assistant city engineer. Thank you, mayor, members of the council, staff, and residents. Tonight, I'm going to highlight the improvements that are consistent with all three of the projects on the agenda here tonight uh rather than duplicate the things that are consistent with each of the three projects. The three projects tonight are West 72nd Street, Prospect, Nolles, AC, and D and Parkline Court. All three of these project areas are on the south end of Edina. Uh all the streets in these project areas are local streets. There are no municipal state aid streets in these project areas. West 72nd Street has 20 properties. Uh on the west is Cor Cornelia Elementary School. On the east is France Avenue. Uh Prospect Nolles AC and D. Uh first off these letters adjacent to the project name. Uh generally neighborhood boundaries are much too large to reconstruct in one construction season. [clears throat] Likewise, some of the pavements have different pavement ages. So we've break these down into smaller subgroups, each distinguish with a different letter. Uh Prospect Nolles ACND has 283 properties. Uh Braar Golf is just to the west. Lewis Park is uh in Prospect Nullles neighborhood to the east. And finally, Parkline Court has four properties. It's uh east of the Fred Richards Park and west of France Avenue. So, why are we reconstructing these three project areas? Uh first off, big picture, streets are grouped into neighborhoods or neighborhood subgroups. This maximizes the economics of scale. The larger a single concentrated area that can be done in one construction season uh lessens the project cost on a per mile basis. It also extends the pavement life. Uh organizing these neighborhoods and neighborhood subgroups for future maintenance like pavement overlays makes things more uniform and cost effective rather than doing things on a blockby-block basis. As Chad mentioned, we've got a proactive pavement management program. Uh each of the city street surfaces are evaluated once every four years and given a pavement rating of 0 to 100. Zero being a completely failed street or a gravel street and 100 being a brand new street. Uh once these uh neighborhood subgroups fall below a certain threshold, they're put into the roadway reconstruction uh planning process. And then a prioritization happens uh that's based on the pavement condition of these neighborhood subgroups and project areas. Also factoring in is the uh age of the original construction. Uh also factoring in our underground utility information and pedestrian and bicycle system needs and gaps. We reference the ped and bike uh master plan and implement uh items in those uh that ped and bike master plan into the roadway and utility reconstruction projects and the proactive pavement management program helps keep the overall average pavement condition high throughout the city. So, the proposed water main improvements for all three of the project areas, we're proposing to replace all the water services, all the gate valves, and all the fire hydrants. The new fire hydrants will have the stores coupling for a quicker fire department connections, which is uh critical when dealing with fire emergencies. Uh the majority of the water man is in a fair to good condition. Uh there is a portion of the water manes that are in poor condition. So we'll be replacing partial water manes in these project areas. We're also going to be verifying that the hydrant spacing is appropriate and adding additional fire hydrants if needed. All the water man improvements will be paid for underneath uh under the water main fund and will not be assessed to the property owners in these project areas. proposed sanitary sewer improvements. Uh I'm going to separate out the 72nd Street project uh with this slide here. That project area is unique and that has undersized sanitary sewer main. So that project's going to get uh an upsize in the uh sanitary sewer main. Chad will talk about that in more detail during that project presentation. But for Prospect, Nolles and Parklon Court, we're proposing short spot trunk pipe repairs. That'll be by open cut excavation. Those will be fairly minimal um repairs in these project areas. We're also going to be uh installing a cured inplace pipeliner to reduce ini, which stands for inflow and infiltration. If you look at the graphic on the slide here, uh the existing clay sanitary sewer mane has cracks in it. It has gaps in it where roots can get into the sanitary sewer as well as uh debris uh can fill the sanitary sewer pipe which we don't want. Um also uh clear groundwater can get into the sanitary sewer through these cracks cracks and gaps and then that clear groundwater has to be treated as wastewater at the uh metropolitan council wastewater facilities and the city has to pay for that you know treating that clear groundwater. Therefore, we are installing a hot water steam cured uh cured in place pipeliner that's shown in blue. This is a structural pipeliner inside the host clay pipe that will minimize uh the ability for roots to intrude in that sanitary sewer and other debris and it'll minimize the amount of that clear ground water that gets into the sanitary sewer, lessening the amount that has to be treated. Also, u inflow can come in through the uh manhole castings in the sanitary sewer manholes and get into the system. So, we're going to be replacing manhole castings and rings to present prevent that inflow. All these sanitary sewer improvements will be paid for from the sanitary sewer fund and will not be assessed to the property owners. All right. Proposed storm sewer improvements. We are proposing modifications to the existing roadway and storm sewer to improve the existing drainage issues. Uh what do we mean by that? We're going to be increasing the uh roadway grade to improve existing drainage issues as well as uh extending storm sewer where necessary uh as well as upgrading or upsizing uh portions of the storm sewer. Uh curbon gutter is considered a storm sewer improvement. We are proposing to replace the existing concrete curbon gutter. We're also proposing to install new curbon gutter where none exists today. We're going to be installing a uh PVC sump drain pipe where feasible. There'll also be the opportunity we'll communicate with the residents. They'll have the opportunity to connect their private uh sump pump discharges into the city sump drain pipe. That's an optional improvement um but recommended. Finally, storm sew improvements will be paid for by the storm sewer fund and once again not assessed. Uh roadway and utility improvements are going to impact portions of the rightway. Uh particularly items that are adjacent to the existing roadway. Examples of these items include landscaping, uh concrete outwalks, concrete steps, mailboxes, irrigation systems, and pet fences. Uh our current practice is to replace irrigation systems and pet fences with the project as well as we'll be replacing landscaping items that are impacted by the project, concrete outwalks, concrete steps. We're also going to be salvaging and reinstalling the existing mailboxes to the best of our ability. Um, we're all going to communicate these impacts with residents too uh prior to construction and during construction as well. Uh, the turf that's uh impacted by construction in the rightway is going to be restored with SAD. We will communicate with uh property owners in advance that if they would like an alter alternative turf uh such as clover and even if they want seed that's a possibility too so we can we can offer that to them. Project schedules for the three projects um we reach out to property owners uh in advance of roadway reconstruction. Uh these three projects were reached out to us various times. Uh that's particularly through the uh future roadway reconstruction project website on the better together site that has um what to expect videos on it. Um side note here for one of the projects here, the Prospect Nolles, the the western portion of one of our project areas here tonight. Staff was um here at city city city hall to uh present in December 2019 the Prospect Nolles A project for construction in 2020. And we came back for a second time on January 7th. And that project was not authorized primarily to due to the large assessment amounts. That sparked a resident task force uh with staff leaison to review the way that we fund these roadway reconstruction projects particular the assessments. I'll touch on this a little bit on the next slide. Uh staff invited the neighborhoods to uhformational open houses. Uh this West 72nd Street project had one in July and one in August of this year. The Prospect Nolles and Parkline Court had a meeting in August of this year. Those meetings were recorded and uh a video was uploaded to each of the respective Better Together Edina project websites and we mailed a postcard to the property owners so they could watch that video if they were not able to attend that open house. uh staff presented the draft engineering studies to the transportation commission including the proposed pedestrian improvements at their meeting at the meeting on October 23rd. The engineering study uh wrapped up at the end of November and tonight is the public hearing. Tonight's the night that residents can provide testimony to staff and the city council. residents can continue to provide testimony uh after tonight on the Better Together Edina project website. Um and we're proposing that that testimony close on December noon, December 10th. On December 16th, the city council will decide whether or not to move forward with the design and uh bidding phase of the projects. The rest of the schedule is going to presume that that does occur. [snorts] Um during the winter, design will occur and as well as plan preparation and specifications. Contractor bidding will occur in March. Uh staff will be back to city council to consider awarding a construction contract in April and construction would begin soon after in late April, early May. Construction would conclude for the season in fall 2026 and the final assessment hearing will not occur until one year after construction is complete in October 2027. Special assessments are proposed for each of the three project areas and these are assigned to benefiting properties of public improvements. As I referenced in the last slide, back in 2020, the resident task force reviewed ways to uh revise the assessment policy. And in 2021, the city council authorized a policy change. That assessment policy change said that the percentage of local roadway project costs would transition from 100% over to property taxes incrementally over 16 years. Kind of a summary of that here is shown in the chart here on the side. So for the three project areas scheduled for 2026, the 52% 52.6% of the roadway project cost will be assessed to property owners. All right. What's included in these roadway project costs that are assessed? uh roadway and driveway removals, the asphalt pavement, the gravel base underneath that asphalt pavement, restoration including top soil, sod driveway restoration. Indirect costs are also included like engineering, finance, soil borings and mailings. So again, 52.6% 6% of the roadway project cost will be assessed to the three project the property owners in these three project areas. The remainder of the roadway project costs will be covered by property taxes per the current assessment policy. Just a reminder again, not included in the assessment amounts are improvements related to water mane, sanitary sewer, storm sewer, sump drain, concrete curb and gutter, uh sidewalk improvements, and uh poor soils underneath that gravel uh asphalt and gravel base, making those roadways more stable. That's not an assessment cost either. Assessments are distributed based on residential equivalent units or REUS. There are different REU factors based on different land use classes used to compare properties to a single family residence. Single family residential properties are assessed one REU. That's regardless of the lot size or the front footage, presuming it is a developable lot. We do have one additional land use class in in a couple of these project areas. Those are multif family residential properties, uh, apartments and condominiums. Those properties are assessed 0.5 RUS per living unit. State statute chapter 429 has a special benefit test. It says that special assessments are valid if the assessment does not exceed the special benefit measured by the increase in market value due to the improvement. Uh we did hire a lo a licensed and qualified appraisal firm to review preliminary market benefit estimates. We'll talk about those in more detail during the project presentations. Uh staff will send mailings to the property owners one year after construction is complete. So around September 2027. That letter is going to include payment options and how to pay for your special assessments. The options include paying the entire assessment amount upon receiving the bill within that first 30 days to avoid interest charges. You can also pay a minimum 25% of the assessment amount within that first 30 days interest free and the assessment balance rolls over to property taxes spread out over 15 years with interest. Or you can roll your entire assessment amount over to property taxes spread out over 15 years with interest. I'll point out there is a 1% finance charge above and beyond the city's borrowing interest rate. That charge essentially is to administer the special assessments um primarily with Henipin County and the 2025 interest rate was 4.98%. That's including that 1% finance charge. Finally, you can defer the payment if you're 65 years of age, 65 years of age or older and meet specific income requirements. All right, at this point I'm going to turn things over to Andrew Scipioni. He's going to talk about some uh big picture goals related to pedestrian bicycle improvements. >> Just hold on just a moment here. I think member Jackson has a question for you. >> Yes, member Jackson. I do. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I actually have three questions. Um the first one is you talked about the efficiencies of doing entire neighborhoods, but looks like park lawn is just one block. Um how is that meet with your goal for efficiencies? >> Yep. Great question, Member Jackson. So, Parkline Court uh is likely going to be bundled into the construction contract. Uh we haven't decided yet either for Prospect Nolles or the Cornelia uh 72nd Street project. So there'll be two contracts bid this winter or the spring for these projects. So Parkland Court will gain the benefit of that um larger larger project area. >> Okay. Thank you. And then my second question is you talked about how curbon gutter um help with handling storm water. Can you go into the engineering of that a little bit more because I know at least in one of the neighborhoods there's some real question about how the curbs work and so if you could talk about the engineering of that that'd be helpful. >> Yep. Great question member Jackson. So, uh let's talk about pavement. I know you asked about curb but one of the the biggest areas for failure on an asphalt pavement is right at the edge of the road. So, a concrete curbon gutter helps support that uh edge of pavement and makes that pavement last much longer. So, less dollars to help maintain that edge of pavement. Um, also it provides um uh drainage assistance and there's some areas with no curb today that have some I would call fairly significant drainage issues without the curb today and we've heard some of those from our public works department. Also, it helps with things like street sweeping. You know, more efficiency with sweeping on that curb. Um, as well as snow plowing. Uh, minimizes damage of the turf um at that curb. And then, uh, this is probably in the eye of the beholder, but curb um you've heard the term curb appeal, right? Some people like their theirs to be without curb, but generally curb provides a little bit more curb appeal. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And then my final question is we talked about RUS being one lot. Um what if you live on a corner? How how does that uh get calculated? >> Great question, Member Jackson. Uh so again, single family lots are assessed one REU. Corner lots with one side street outside of the project area are assessed 0.5 RUS. So they essentially get half off. So, and those other halves may have already been assessed with a previous project or they may get assessed in a future project for that portion that's not in the project area this year. >> Okay. And if you're wholly within the thing, you still just get one REU even though you have two streets on your pro that your property. >> Yes, thanks for clarifying that is accurate. Yeah, if you've got both side streets in the project area, that's uh that's one reu. So that's no different than if you're in the middle of the block. Same same reu calculation. >> Okay. Terrific. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. >> All right, Mr. Cypion. >> Thank you, Mayor, members of council for the opportunity to speak here tonight. Um the recommendations that we are about to present, specifically those related to transportation, um are guided by several approved plans that includes the comprehensive plan, our climate action plan, our living streets plan, and our pedestrian and bicycle master plan. Um all of these were developed with input from the general public, from staff, from our boards and commissions, and from city council members. Um, our recommendations are also also support the city's budget pillars of strong foundation, reliable service, livable city, and better together. Together, these plans lay out a vision for redesigning our transportation system for the benefit of today's residents and visitors as well as for future generations. The primary objectives of this transportation system as outlined in these plans are to meet the needs of all users and abilities, provide connectivity for everyday uses, improve safety and comfort, and to encourage uh alternative modes of transportation. Um the feedback that we received directly from our community through our quality of life survey also shows both support for this vision and it shows the areas where uh improvements are needed. In the most recent survey 2025, um 45% of respondents noted convenient location, accessibility, and walkability as a most liked attribute of living in Edina. Um, additionally, ease of travel overall continues to be rated very highly, but you can see that ease of travel by walking and biking still continues to lag behind ease of travel by by car. Um, the condition of our sidewalks and trails also continues to receive high marks. Um and close to 70% of respondents rated the importance of our transportation emissions reduction activities as either essential or very important. Um for uh as an FYI to meet our current climate action plan goals we need to reduce another 200,000 metric tons of CO2 by 2030 and about 63% of that has to come from the transportation sector. Um, so investing in pen and bike infrastructure is one of the core strategies toward achieving that goal. As you're aware, we're also in the process of developing our safe and equitable mobility action plan, which is aimed at reducing fatal and serious injury crashes on all of our roads. Um, through our community engagement thus far, some of the common themes that we've heard from the community include um that streets without sidewalks increase risk for vulnerable road users. Um there's a desire for safer connections to parks, transit, and commercial areas, especially for children and elderly residents. There's an interest in physical design solutions to address uh vehicle speeds. Um and we've received comments that note that delays in sidewalk implementation have long-term impacts on health and mobility for our residents. So, between the three projects that'll be presented tonight, uh there are recommendations to reduce street widths, um to reduce on- street parking availability, and to add new multimodal uh infrastructure. As you consider these projects, uh please note that staff has thoughtfully considered uh how these improvements support the city's long-term goals toward improving quality of life and reducing the environmental impact of our transportation system. If we're serious about achieving the goals within our guiding documents, these are the types of improvements that we need to make. Uh, thank you for your time and with that, I'll turn it over to Director Milner to provide more details about our first project. Thank you, Andrew. So, let's get into the Pacific projects and we'll start with the 72nd Street roadway reconstruction project embodied in SS 3 538. As a reminder, this was really part of the South Trunk Sanitary Sewer Improvements. This was a project that we've been looking at, sometimes referenced as the Kahill sewer improvements, but it goes from just west or under Highway 100 at Metro Boulevard all the way to just under France on the east end. And it goes to really that Lake Edina neighborhood. Um, and it includes 72nd Street, but it also includes Oaklan Avenue, Guilford Drive, Kellogg Avenue, and Habiscus Avenue. So, it's really to upgrade pipes that are in due that are due for maintenance, but also to prepare for future needs. So upsize those pipes and it happens to be that the first stage is 72nd Street between Cornelia Drive and France Avenue. We heard lots of comments about traffic and speed and volumes and behaviors on 72nd Street as part of a development project on on France Avenue. So with the sewer project, we have this opportunity to reconstruct 72nd Street. At the same time, we heard a lot of comments from the public. We presented on the traffic related issues here at the city council last fall. That report was drafted and is posted on the better together.org website. We also heard from the residents about parking and we heard from a survey that parking was not a priority for most people that live on 72nd Street. There is 20 properties between Cornelia Drive and France Avenue and that equates to 55.25 reus. It's.33 miles of road. And I think it's important to note that over 90% of the reus, which relates to 90% of the accessible costs, would be covered by those two commercial properties on France Avenue on those corner lots north and south of 72nd Street. Many of the properties on the south side of 72nd Street already had street assessments and they had a 1.0 REU. So they would not participate in this because they've already had their assessments with previous projects with a slightly different assessment policy, but they already had their assessments. What are we going to do on this project? Uh this is really governed by that sanitary sewer pipe. So we're going to increase the size of that pipe up to a 3ft or a 36 inch sanitary sewer pipe on 72nd Street from Canerio Drive to just east of France Avenue. And the graphics on the right kind of show those pipes that are under the pavement. And then that construction technique on the bottom is really going to be that open cut method where we dig have a trench box for protection and put those pipes in as the excavator works down the street. Like Aaron mentioned earlier, we are going to replace the entire water man system here. We did an ecologic scanning and the pipe wall thickness dictates that we should replace the water man pipe here. We're considering an additional loop. We're doing all the gate valves and hydrants and then the storm sewer is also most likely going to be replaced or repaired along this corridor. The street was originally constructed in 1961. This is a picture of that street and the existing concrete street is 28t wide. You'll note that it has a sidewalk on the north side of the street. Um an integral curb it has with the concrete you get a big wide gutter pan there that's about five or six feet wide along that joint. So, we're proposing today there's that existing width. There is no parking on either side. That was a change we made this summer uh with the neighbors. And then we also striped 4ft shoulders on that existing roadway as you can see in this existing section. So, that existing is actually what's out there today. We're proposing a very similar uh street width. We're going to reduce that. We're proposing to reduce it by four feet to go to 24 foot wide. Continue with that. No parking on either side. and then add an 8-ft sidewalk/shared use path on that southside. So, use the space that we're getting from shrinking the road and use that for another pedestrian facility. And we heard a lot of comments in our surveys and meetings about more pet safety, more access for the kids to get to that school that's in the area. We also had some other ideas presented by RA by the residents. One is a a median on 72nd just west of Lindmar Lane. So, we're proposing to kind of match that design that is on 70th Street at Westshore Drive in Cornelia and it's wide enough to provide some trees. So, we'll work through the design and how that fits within this area. And then, as we promised with that development project at 7200 France, we would build that pork chop that only limits you can make a right in and a ride out. So, we would fulfill that promise and build that along with the other street improvements. We did go to the transportation commission like Andrew had mentioned and Aaron uh they support the road narrowing the sidewalk and shared use path on the south side and that median for traffic calming and pedestrian safety. And then they asked about future projects in the neighborhood as it relates to the bike ped master plan. The costs for this project are $6.4 million. There's just under $600,000 for the roadway. uh 313,000 of that would be specially assessed back to the benefiting properties. 282,000 is estimated for property taxes. On the utility side, you can see a big portion of it is that sanitary sewer portion of the project at 4.2 million. Then we have water main and storm sewer improvements. The utilities are at about 5.6 million. And then we have the PAX fund, the pedestrian and cyclist safety fund that's going to pay for the sidewalk, that new sidewalk on the south side. So total cost including engineering, clerical and finance is $6.4 million for this project. There is 20 properties and 55.25 RU. So this map shows the REU values for the people that are adjacent to the project. The purple lot is city property. We're assessing ourselves 1.5 RUS. All the green ones are zero because they were assessed one in previous street reconstruction projects. And then the question that member Jackson brought up, these yellow ones are corner lots. So these would be assessed a 0.5 reus with this project. And then when these north streets get done, they would be another 0.5 with a future project. The the 7200 and 7128 have a lot of other units. 11.5 RUS and then 38.25 RUS. So like I mentioned, over 90% of the cost is funded by those two commercial properties along France Avenue. There is a reminder on the voting that you could consider pedestrian improvements on a three to five three out of five council votes to pass. We've done that on some occasions. Anything with assessments needs four out of the five council members to vote to pass because we're bringing the project in front of you. We believe this project is feasible, cost-effective, and necessary to improve the public infrastructure. We would recommend that you make a motion to close the public hearing at noon on Wednesday, December 10th, and then continue this action and make a decision at the December 16th city council meeting for this improvement. And I'd be happy to stand for any questions before you open up the public hearing. >> All right, let me check with our council members here to see if anybody has questions for you. Yes, member Agnu. >> Thank you, Mayor, and thank you for the complete presentation. I really appreciate it. Um, I love the picture because the question I was going to ask was about the median. Um, so I I don't feel that we see a ton of medians, especially on um more internal streets. I like obviously France Avenue. Um, tell me why we don't see a ton of medians across the community and why you think this location is a good one for a median. >> Yeah, we've done a few on 70th Street and that was the same reason why we're proposing it here. It has to do with traffic calming and signifying you're entering a residential neighborhood and maybe it's not the best case to be cutting through here. It slows cars down because it makes it narrower. The challenge is snowplowing. Um so we don't do it all the time because there's a challenge to that but I think there's there's right areas where it makes sense to do it and this location to me feels like it makes sense to do a median at this location. >> Okay. And there's no concerns about like the relative proximity to the pork chop. I wish we had a different name for that, but you know what I'm talking about. Like it seems like they're really close to each other. Um like this picture, it's almost like a continuation almost, right? So, how do those play in together? >> Yeah. So, the graphic on the left is a median that's in the center of the street per the picture I just had up. The pork chop is on the private street that goes north south between Gallagher and 72nd. So, that pork chop is not even in the traveled way of 72nd Street. So it doesn't it doesn't affect traffic going east west. It deters traffic from taking that lefthand turn on the 72nd street to get back into the Cornelia neighborhood. >> Okay. So you have no concerns? >> No. No concerns. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Yep. I think while you're on that topic, if you go back to that prior photo, um you know, just from living in the in the neighborhood to the west, uh when I I'm on 66th and I think it's West Shore or on 70th and Cornelia, you you can see if you're a regular traveler that these are effective on slowing people down either either exiting the neighborhood and going on to 70th or 66 or particularly slowing them down off those those higher volume streets moving into the neighborhood. You can see a distinct change in behavior there as they try to >> turn the corner into the into the neighborhood with those with those center island. >> Yep. You have to be more deliberate in your moves and that's what we want to slow the cars down. >> We would be a little wider than this for trees, >> but it would be very similar looking here. >> Yeah, it's a more succinct way to say it say it. Thank you. Uh other questions? Yes, member Jackson. >> Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thanks for the presentation. Um the sidewalk on the north side that's going to be will it be um preserved so that it doesn't need to be rebuilt when you do the street reconstruction. How do we protect that? >> Yeah, we want to keep it. We're going to basically start our design from the existing concrete curb on the north side roughly and start from there and build south. We're going to inventory that north sidewalk and fix anything that's damaged or needs repairs or doesn't meet ADA standards. >> Okay. Terrific. Thank you. Um, one comment that I got from neighbors is thinking about changing the way we do curbs, going from a barrier to a surmountable curb and just thinking about, you know, people maybe trying to get up onto that pathway. And I'm wondering, are we considering are we going to be barrier curbing or are we going to consider the surmountable curb? >> Barrier curb is our city standard. Uh we would not recommend going the surmountable curb. It's actually steeper than barrier curb through every driveway apron. And then we'd have ped ramps at every intersections for people to access formally access the trail or sidewalks, but they could also access through people's driveways. And those concrete aprons at the end are actually flatter if you use barrier curb because we build a flat surface that gets up into their driveway versus a surmountable. It's got more of a a curved shape to it. It's actually more of a steeper bump to it. So [snorts] we our standard is barrier and I'd recommend barrier occur. >> Thank you. >> Council member, >> thank you. I think it was um member Jackson's question that made me think of this. Um so for the north sidewalk um specifically around the property of 7128 France um where today there isn't a boulevard. Will will we be adding one in to have that be in alignment? Um or will we be preserving that one as is too? >> Great question. That one block will be slightly different. You can see it on this graphic on the north side. We want to get a boulevard style sidewalk in there. So, we would work with that owner and try to make that space. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks for catching that. >> And just a comment on the surmountable versus bulkhead style. Uh, I remember years ago we did surmountable over in South Area Park on on Kellogg and a couple of the streets over there and I think the neighbors over there regret that that ever happened because their yards get all rutdded out. U you know that there's all kinds of vehicles that get up into the yard in the winter time and it's a constant kind of a challenge cleaning it up. They wanted a little bit more of a country look and I I don't I don't think I think the the bulkhead is a better way to go. We've heard those comments from the neighborhood that damages grass and saw and irrigation systems that are down there when cars end up driving on it, delivery trucks, what have you. So, >> good point. Um and just to make that point clear uh to the to the extent people have uh irrigation systems or pet containment systems uh we may those may be disturbed in the process but they're all repaired so that they function just like they did before when when the street reconstruction project is done regardless of what neighborhood we're working in. >> Correct. Any neighborhood we damage those. We'd work with each individual owner to to see where they want their heads and making those repairs and we'd work with each person. Yep. >> All right. Good. Uh other questions from council members for our staff. All right, let's this is a public hearing matter and u certainly willing to have folks come up and testify if you so desire. So let's open it up for public testimony. Remember if you don't have anything to use from an overhead projection standpoint, you're better off using one of the side podiums. You'll have three minutes. You'll get a yellow warning light when you got 30 seconds left. And we ask you to wrap up your comments when the red light comes on. I'm going to treat everybody the same here in terms of testimony. Yes. >> Do we want to flash that number, that call-in number again? >> Yeah, we can do that here while we're getting ready to go up. Yeah, that's a good thought. Okay, so people that are going to come and uh come and testify, come in and testify from a remote standpoint. There's your numbers again. All right, let's take folks from that neighborhood. Anybody from the neighborhood want to come up and tell us what their concerns are, how they support the project? All right, let's get you a handheld microphone if you want to use that. >> Good evening. My name is Sandy Carlson. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight about the proposed 72nd Street reconstruction. As a concerned South Cornelia resident, I want to address three critical issues. One, the 72nd 7250 developers recent push to for additional parking on 72nd Street. Second, the need for traffic exiting the 7200 ramp to have a forced right turn. And third, the urgent need for street lighting at the intersection of 72nd and France. First, let's talk parking. When the developer developer originally proposed this project, they explicitly assured us, the city staff, and the council that they had adequate on-site parking for all phases. This wasn't just talk. It was documented in the 2022 city council resolution approving the zoning ordinance amendment for these sites. The resolution highlighted that the development would provide sufficient parking on the developer's property. City staff reviewed it, the council agreed, and it was approved on that basis. So why now, only a few months after approval was given for the 7200 project are the developers asking for overflow parking. This street is one of only three main streets through the neighborhood, allowing street parking would disrupt our neighborhood with narrowed access near Friends Avenue. If on-site the on-site parking is truly adequate as the developer claimed and the city confirmed, there is no justification for burdening 72nd Street. You must hold them to their word and reject this request. Secondly, the city staff proposes only adding a pork chop at the intersection of 7200 7250 North South Road and 72nd Street. However, on November 6th, 2024, the council did not limit left turns only at this intersection. The minutes state that council directed staff to restrict left turns out out onto West 72nd Street by installing a median barrier. This was part of the approved traffic calming measures to enhance pedestrian safety and reduce cut through traffic. Vehicles exiting from the 7200 ramp directly onto 72nd Street must also be restricted from making left turns. Without this, we'll see more traffic in our residential area. It should be easy to accommodate no left turns from the ramp into the 72nd Street reconstruction project. I believe this better align with the council's directive to divert traffic away from our neighborhood and especially away from our elementary school. Finally, with the increased density from this the uh 7200 7250 project, we absolutely need enhanced lighting at the 70 72nd and France intersection. This corner will see more people, especially at night, raising risks of accidents and pedestrian incidents. Importantly, this is not a new idea. Lighting improvements at this intersection were already approved as part of the previous project that wasn't built. We can't backtrack now. Let's implement what was promised to keep our streets safe. In closing, please prioritize our neighbors well neighborhoods well-being. No to street parking, yes to the pork chop extension, and to right turns only from the parking ramp, and yes to essential lighting. Thank you for listening and for your commitment to a dinina. I urge the council to act accordingly. >> Thank you, Miss Carlson. Anyone else? Hi there. Uh my name is Neil Neil Johnson. I just wanted to first start off and just say it was wonderful working with uh Director Milner throughout this process. He was wonderful. Thank you so much for all of your attention as well to all the issues within the neighborhood and whatnot. Um, so a couple of different comments. I'm really happy to see the the median. That's that's going to be really wonderful to create a nice entry for our neighborhood and whatnot. So really excited about that. Um, uh, one one concern that I have that's not really explicitly um, stated is about the tree canopy. Making sure that the tree canopy is is really protected. Um, so when the when the um when the street's being built there there's some really wellestablished trees that are gosh 50 years old that I that really creates a wonderful atmosphere when going down the road. And um and anything that we can do to basically, you know, curve the road or whatnot to to maintain that root system and maintain that large canopy is going to be a really important thing for the feel of the neighborhood and also to minimize traffic. um which um which is really um my my next component which is about um really traffic within the neighborhood. You know, the impacts of 7200 and 7250. You know, my my concern over time that I've expressed to you all is um is really I worry about the children that are going south to north and north to south across 72nd Street because there are many children, you know, there's the school right there and whatnot. And with the um with the current pork chop, you know, there's still traffic that can head east along um uh 70th Street, turn right into the neighborhood, and then basically go into these res the se the 7200 and 7250, which adds a lot more traffic. Um that's going to that would cut through 72nd Street um for the neighborhood. So, if there's anything that can be done, you know, to mitigate that, I've expressed this over time. I I'll reexpress it again because I am concerned about safety of children. I just really don't want to see something happen to someone within our neighborhood. And then um the last that that um you know, Sandy brought up, which is um a question about this this parking. You know, I think it's a question mark about um something that's been potent uh potentially proposed about about parking and I'm not sure where it's located at. It's not entirely clear to me about where that parking along 72nd Street is. But I mean, one of the wonderful things about what's in the proposed project is that we're going to be able to add a a nice integral bicycle path. There's going to um you know, by giving up the parking on 72nd Street on the north and south side, we're going to be able to have some traffic calming components there. we're going to be able to save that tree canopy because the the street's going to be narrower. You've got that that nice bicycle path on on the south side. So, a lot of nice balance to that. And so, and and I think the other component is is that, you know, the when when the when the developer, you know, proposed this originally, they they said, you know, there's there's enough um Oh, I'm sorry. Am I out of time? >> Can you can you wrap up your comments real quick? >> Yep. just just that they um said that there was enough parking and now to ask that they have have parking kind of flies in the face of that which is which is problematic. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. Sorry about about that. I'm not I'm not always up here. >> Thanks. Hello. >> Good evening. >> I apologize for my voice. I'm a little sick. My [clears throat] name is Miriam. I'm a resident of the South Caron neighborhood. I have resided in in Adina for 5 years with my family. Three of those as a renter, a renter, both on the east side of France, and now I'm a permanent resident on the west side of France in the South Cornelia neighborhood, one of the properties affected by this project. Uh, I'd like to say thank you to Mr. Milner for listening and meeting with the neighborhood. A lot of our concerns have been addressed. I'm 90% in support of the proposed plan here. Uh particularly the pedestrian sidewalks and multimmodal use. Uh, one of the reason I moved to Adina was accessibility and walkability to local businesses for me and my young family and also realizing that doing this plan would make the businesses uh also accessible to people that have limited mobility considering that that might be the population moving in in the developments. I'm also [clears throat] considerate of that. Um, I will express my concern that I share with my fellow resident Neil here about the pork shop. I appreciate that that addressed the concern for um part traffic exiting the property limiting them to turn west into the neighborhood. I have concern about traffic incoming into those new property going uh west to east on 72nd Street, right? Because nothing keeps that traffic from going through 72nd Street and through the residential area. The pork shop will prevent people from turning into the neighborhood, but it's coming back and wanting to access that property. I am in favor of the median and the calming traffic measures of uh that proposed plan. I think safety is critical, especially in our neighborhood with the elementary school and the number of small children and family residing in that area. from having lived on both side of France, having um walkways that are accessible, allowing us to not use our vehicles to walk, bike. Uh we're a very active family and I think I can speak for a lot of my my fellow neighbors that we appreciate having a pathway to walk to businesses, support local businesses, entertainment in the area, um accessibility to park with the new Fred Richards Park uh development that's being built. I want to be considerate that these apartments would have a walkable way to get to that new park uh where we can entertain ourselves and be in nature and also consider the access to the nine mile creek. Um so canopy also is important. I like the median with the trees. So that's great. Um so those are my comments. So thank you very much. Thank you very much. >> Anyone else >> on the mystery card? >> Just your name. >> Oh, I'm Alice Halbert. I I am not in this neighborhood and I'm just here as a bicycle advocate. And if you show that picture again of the neighborhood, I I don't know that street real well. It looks like it has a surmountable curb on one side and a barrier curb on the other. I don't know if that's true or not. That's how it looked in the picture, but you know, we used to have a bicycle task force that specifically looked at infrastructure for bikes, and I think transportation commission has taken that on. I'm not sure why when the opportunity is there to do something that would make biking safer on that road, we don't go for it. And that curb gutter pan is looks like a foot and a half wide. >> Get that. Could you try again? [laughter] >> Right. It would be at the time of doing this, why not put in a nice three- foot wide gutter pan so that when you're riding your bike down the road, and a lot of people will continue to ride in the road, and the cars are pushing you up against that nasty barrier curb that if you hit that, you are going down. Right now, at least in that picture, you've got a barrier curb about a foot and a half and then a seam with the asphalt, which always catches your tire. So why not design it to be more bike friendly? Just saying. Thank you. >> Right. Yeah. Thanks for that. Okay. >> Good evening, council members. My name is Ted Carlson of the Ryan Investments and um like you've heard before, Mr. Miller and staff do a great job of communicating. So um I'd like to just address a couple of the comments were made. You know, we have plenty of parking for our project on site. I think um and I'll address that at the very end of my comments, but first of all, you know, we're bearing 70% of the assessment. We don't have a problem there. Uh secondly, we're willing to increase the width of the sidewalk. That'd be great. Thirdly, pork chop makes sense to us. We've been on the record talking about that. Um, but I want to just address the parking real quick. When I've talked with Chad and talked with others is in the past on other projects we've done elsewhere in the city is on street parking was a traffic calming method. And in our alignment with the neighborhood here, you know, I think it's somehow portrayed that we want kids to get be endangered or have a bad experience and that's the opposite of what we'd like to do. And my partners and I have young kids who are in the Dina school system. So, with that in mind, I simply asked a question, had a conversation with Director Milner about might it make sense to add some on street parking along our 72nd Street uh lot, not because we're short of parking in interest of possibly traffic calming. And then secondly is, you know, we've got almost an acre and a quarter of public space there that's got uh pedestrian trails and bike trails and eventually that may connect underneath France Avenue to the larger system. So just as the question is help me understand if someone's going to use those trails or bikes, wouldn't it make sense to have a few parking spots for them to park to engage and access the public infrastructure? So that was the purpose of of my comment. Um that's it. Appreciate the engagement and wish you all a great evening. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thanks, Mr. Carlson. Thanks for that perspective. >> Anyone else? that median where walkers can stand safely. >> Good evening. >> Um, good evening. Hello, council. Um, and neighbors and oh, I guess Ted left. Um, but, uh, nice to see you all. I'd like to again echo my neighbors comments. um especially to the council um the engineering department, Nick and the traffic safety department. Um I think you have all put together a really beautiful plan and worked very um thoughtfully and conscientiously with our neighbors um to put together the proposed plan today. I think it's great. Um, I know at least Mayor Havland, uh, Member Jackson, Director Milner have stood in our actual front yards, um, and spoken with us and looked at at this street and and I really appreciate that diligence. Um, I I support it as is. I think it's great. Um, I do um love Sy's comments about making sure that the lighting is appropriate. Um and also reflecting the council's commitment made to us in November um about restricting the left hand turn at that median at that pork chop median. I see the medium pork chop is in the plan. Um so I think it's just ensuring that that signage is clear and the intention for that median. Um I would also like to um reflect on Ted and Orion's um request for the parking. I think that it's the neighborhood has been really clear. We want the sidewalk. We don't want the parking. Um I think that um the barrier curb to allow bikes to go up, I'll say personally on the record or sorry the surroundable I personally um as a cyclist and a pedestrian and a driver of that street every single day of which I'm very familiar with that street and all of those modalities. Um I support the barrier curb. Uh my understanding for bicyclists and bike safety is that bicyclists when on the road operate the same as a car. Um and you don't need to be on the sidewalk. I bike on the sidewalk and go onto the sidewalk when I am with my 2-year-old and when I am with my 5-year-old. Uh but even my 8-year-old understands that bicycles function as motorists. And um I think it's incumbent on all of us motorists to be aware of the cyclists as well. So um as far the barrier curb as is um to Ted and Orion's comments on the parking, I agree. Um one of two realities are true. One is that they have adequate parking and therefore don't need to try to overturn the will of the neighbors on our street and add parking. or the reality is that they don't have adequate parking and they are trying to use accessible close on street parking as a selling point to potential renters. In which point I would say please do not overturn the will of the property owners and homeowners and residents for the sake of selling more rental properties. Um they also own the lot across the street so they can build parking to their heart's content and I am very proud of them for that opportunity. All right, I need to have you wrap up your comments, please. >> Sorry. Thank you. Um, also on street parking as a call call traffic calming measure. I don't buy that. That's why we took out street parking. Um, kids safety. I recognize that Ted has children in the same school at the same age as my school. Um, also recognized that when I had a one-on-one conversation with him, he laughed and said, um, you know, everybody thinks their kids's going to get run over on 72nd Street. Uh, my child did nearly get run over by really need up. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? Okay. All right. Um, council members have any questions for staff? >> Member Agno. >> Thank you. Um, Mr. D Miller. Thank you, Director Miller, for coming up. Um, can you just speak really briefly to the tree canopy and um, sorry, >> just seeing if there's anybody online that wanted to testify. >> Oh, that that was wise. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Um, to the tree canopy, what is our kind of general philosophy around preserving as many trees as possible and and what thoughts do you have for this project in particular? >> Yeah, we try to preserve as many trees as we can. So, we would shrink the boulevard if we're next to a tree to try to save a tree. We'd first have our forester look at all the trees to make sure they're healthy enough and and warrant us trying to save them before construction. We've done an airspade technique before to expose the roots and maybe move them around. Um, but yeah, those are the options. Typically, shrinking the boulevard or just protecting those roots during construction and we would get our city forester involved and we've done that for years. Not every tree can be saved depending on what we want to do, but we'll do our best with the ones that are out there. >> Wonderful. Thank you. >> And we work with each individual owner as we learn which ones may or may not uh be able to fit with this proposal. >> Yeah, I remember conversations from years past where we've had a lot of partnerships. So, thank you for driving that. >> Um the last question then, um just to make sure I'm understanding these plans, you are not proposing any parking on 72nd Street. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> Thank you. I got a little bit ahead of myself because all the good questions we had or the issues that were raised. Do we have anybody online? >> All right. Okay. So, we'll go back to Director Milner. Other questions for Director Milner? Yes, member Jackson. >> Um, so two questions. One is with the lighting. I know I remember distinctly talking about the lighting at that corner. Is that part of this street reconstruction project or um what when when did the when would we have the discussion about increasing lighting at that corner because that's been a concern there for years. >> Yeah, Ted's project is putting lighting in with their project. So, we feel that meets we typically put one light at an intersection. There's already been lighting with that project. Okay. >> On that south corner. >> That's kind of how I remember it. It's part of the It's not part of the street reconstruction. >> Correct. The second question I have is about how traffic's going to move in and out of that apartment building. So is it that sounds like the way it's constructed that it's the expectation that people coming home to the apartments would come down 72nd Street and turn right into it. Um and that was I think part of the concern when we approved this. So tell me a little bit about how the traffic's going to flow there and um how we address the concerns because I know that we had longest discussions about cut through traffic on 72nd Street coming, you know, bypassing 70th. So can you talk a little bit about that? >> I can speak a little bit. I should have brought the traffic study that was done as part of the development project, but whenever a development project comes forward, they calculate the number of trips and then they do a dispersement. So, we know X percent's coming from the south on Gallagher Drive to enter this private street that you see on the on that Gallagher. Some of it could come in off of France. You could take a right-hand turn southbound to westbound 72nd to access the various features of this development project. There may be some people that choose to use Cornelia down in the 72nd and that's a movement that right now is allowed. This pork chop would just restrict anybody using that north south street from taking a left on the 72nd and exiting to the west to try to get back to 70th street. So yes, you're correct. We did have a long discussion and according to the consultant that did the traffic study, uh there was minimal impacts in their opinion to the neighborhood traffic related to the development project. >> Okay. Um given what we put in the develop in the ordinance uh approving this are we do you feel that we're satisfying what the promise that we made when we when we wrote that ordinance? >> Yes, we're doing the right in right out. That's what exactly council approved during that development project. >> Okay. Thank you. >> On this issue of uh eastbound traffic on 72nd, did we give any consideration to a speed hump or series of speed humps or speed tables? because it seems like one of the concerns folks have is that speed is an issue and I know from being out there at its existing configuration at 28 feet and standing in people's yards that people were particularly moving into the neighborhood that I think probably lived there deeper into the neighborhood were coming through fairly fast between France and Cornelia. So, I was just wondering if that if in terms of thinking about potential traffic calming measures, speed reduction measures, whether it makes any sense to look at something like a speed table or a speed hump between Cornelia and uh France eastbound. >> We thought the street width we >> 24T 24 ft is a narrow street. >> With the shoulder lanes we did, we already saw 2 to 3 mph reduction in speeds just with that. So this design basically matches what we did with pavement and curbs is a more hard structure. So we would anticipate that same >> outlook there. Um >> that's a good point as we've reduced the width of streets other places that we see a course corresponding reduction in the speed of vehicles using that street. >> Correct. And then even around this median island at Lindmar would be another spot where people are going to be constricted and typically slow down whenever they feel constricted. >> All right. I was also kind of intrigued with uh Ellis Halbert's comment about what about a three- foot wide pan in for the bikes on the street. What what what are your thoughts on that versus what we typically do? >> Yeah, we provided about six options for the community to kind of give us their opinions on and a few of them had on street bike lanes that makes the street wider. We're worried about cars going faster in that case. So, we actually did the 8-foot sidewalk/shared use path because bikes could use that also. >> Okay. So, if you're the interested cyclist that's not comfortable in traffic, you can use that 8 foot wide facility. If you're comfortable in traffic, do exactly what we heard. You are a vehicle, take your space and make the cars go slow and around you. Um, so those are the two options. And we didn't want to make it wider with on street bike lanes. In this case, we think state aid routes and some of the other routes like 70th Street is different, but this is really a local street and we don't do bike lanes typically on local streets with low traffic volumes. Yeah. You know, one of the things we've got quite a few of the folks from the neighborhood here that have had ongoing concerns, and I I just want to make sure I reiterate to you that it was interesting that we got to this project as quickly as we did because we recognize there were issues over there, especially with the construction of 7200 and 7250. And I really want to thank you and I think the neighbors have really been deeply appreciative of the fact that the city and city staff in particular have been so responsive to what their concerns were. And we we got a good plan here. uh as um as the neighbors have confirmed. So um thanks for that really good work and uh getting to this project so quickly. That was important to do. >> Member Risser, >> I appreciate the um multi-use path that'll be on the south side of 72nd. U as I think about how people bike and I am a biker myself. um thinking about there's really nothing on the north side and I get the idea that you're supposed to go across 72nd and get up on the multi-use path but that does introduce another set of concerns and I'm just wondering you know I want to at this juncture say that it seems like there should be something on the other side of the street as well um or you know some is there going to be signage what is what is the plan to get people from that side of the street safely across us to the multi-use path. >> Yep. Cyclists can still use the 5ft sidewalk. That's allowed by ordinance. So, they we're not going to tell users where they're most comfortable being. They can choose. Are they most comfortable if they have their kids that are younger to be on the 5ft and they're heading westbound to the school or do they feel more comfortable in the wider 8oot? So, they will decide based on their own comfort level on which one of those facilities they can use. But they're both allowed to be cyclists on both of those or of course you can ride in the street depending on your comfort level. >> Thank you. >> You know, as we have this um sketch up on the screen, uh I think we also talked about adding as a um supplement to the so-called pork shop. We were going to have a signage some signage there said no left turn so somebody can't just >> kind of do a maneuver around the pork shop. Is that what we still planning on putting that no left turn sign in there as well? >> Typically do that. So we did this is just the graphic to show the concept. >> Wanted to make sure we hadn't forgotten that idea and I think Mr. Carlson was more than happy to have that put up as well. So >> yep. >> Um okay. All right. Good. Uh so the recommendation from staff on this matter uh council members is that we close the in-person public hearing this evening and keep the online public input open until uh the end of the day on December 10th uh and then decide the matter on December 16th, 2025. Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. >> There a second. >> I second. >> Member Jackson moves. Member Agnu seconds uh the adoption of the motion as stated. uh we would close the public input on December 10th and then take this matter up on December 16th, 2025. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. That motion is adopted. And uh we'll uh we'll take this up on the 16th of December. Thanks for all the input. Really uh pleased with how this is coming together uh for for the neighborhood and for the town. Thanks so much to everybody for being here. All right. Uh, next matter is, uh, we're getting to Prospect Nolles AC and D. >> Hello, uh, mayor, council members, residents. My name is Ben Jory and I'm a senior project engineer here at the city of Adina. Um, I'd like to thank you all for your time to present the Prospect Nles AC and D neighborhood roadway reconstruction project. >> Yeah. Thanks for being with us this evening, Mr. Jury. >> Absolutely. >> Appreciate you being here. [snorts] So, just some background on Prospect Nolles AC and D. The project area is bounded by 70th Street on the north, uh, Cahill Road on the east, Dwey Hill Road on the south, and Gleon Road on the west. The project area consists of 283 properties, which equates to 231.67 RUS. There's 3.2 mi of road and 45,263 square yards of pavement. >> [snorts] >> With this project, in addition to what Aaron mentioned earlier, we are proposing a new 12-in water man from 70th Street to Gleason Road. There it is. There we go. Thank you. Um, so that's shown here in the purple. The benefit of this is it will reduce the dead end in Wexford Road and it will make a continuous loop water mane. This improves water quality. It also helps keep the flow to the Dublin reservoir. >> Okay. >> This will be fully installed within a util an existing utility easement shown in the blue. We are proposing new water man as this was denoted as uh a condition that needed to be reviewed. [snorts] There's also going to be new water services for each property. Sanitary sewer. Currently, there is an existing undersized sanitary sewer main on 70th Street West. We are proposing to increase this to an 8 in pipe. All services that are located on this undersized main will be removed and installed on the main pipe. [snorts] Existing roadway conditions. The streets are reaching the end of their useful life. A lot of these streets were constructed between the 1950s and 80s with the majority being between the 60s and 70s. The existing streets uh width varies between 24 and 30 ft. The average is approximately 28 feet. Soils vary throughout the project area. However, most are silty sands and clays. As Chad mentioned earlier, the PCI for the city of Edina as a whole is 78. Prospect Nolles AC and D has a PCI of 25. Remember zero is a gravel street and 100 is a new street. [snorts] So with this project we would propose to remove the existing roadway in its entirety and replace to the current city standards. Street width will vary throughout the project but the majority of the street widths will be 27 ft wide. There are a few changes to parking. However, the majority has no parking changes. Again, there are some exceptions and I'll get into those in a little bit. One area I want to talk about specifically is the Kerry Road and Downroad intersection. This is a difficult area uh specifically because of safety. the traffic safety committee and residents have noted to us that when vehicles come down Kerry Road, they oftent times will um kind of overturn and end up in the wrong lane um along with the existing geometry and uh topography of this area. It can be dangerous in the wintertime. So, we've listened to that and we would like to propose um basically some pavement markings um to denote those lanes, signage to note the intersection. We do want to keep the geometry of the intersection roughly the same to maximize our turning movements. [snorts] This is a typical section of the streets existing and proposed where no sidewalks are proposed. The existing street widths vary from 26 to 30 ft wide. Uh, one thing I want to note is when I talk about existing street widths, if there is no curb and gutter, the street width is from edge of pavement to edge of pavement. If there's curb and gutter, it's to the face of curb to the face of curb. So, existing is 26 to 30 with a 28t average. And there is two-sided parking. Currently, in proposed conditions, the street width would be 27 ft wide. This is a reduction of street widths by 0 to 3 ft. Two-sided parking would remain. Now, there are a few exceptions as I mentioned earlier. Carry road being one of them. This street would be a 24 ft width with one-sided parking. This is because of the existing geometry and topography of Kerry Road. Village Drive would remain at 30 ft wide with two-sided parking. >> [snorts] >> Here is a map of the existing multi-model facilities. As you can see, directly adjacent to the proper or project area, there is a sidewalk along 70th Street West, Antrum Road, and Dewey Hill Road. Running north south, there are sidewalks on Gleon Road and also Cahill Road. There is a path within Lewis Park that connects the sidewalk on Dewey Hill Road and Kahill Road. The recommended pedestrian facilities as outlined by the pedestrian and bicyclist master plan are shown here. There is a sidewalk that would be proposed or would be developed along a portion of Shannon Drive, a portion of Cambridge Drive, Fleetwood Drive and Lam Lane. Please note that this section of section of roadway on Cheer Drive between Fleetwood and Lewis Park is not within the pedestrian and bicyclist master plan. [snorts] This is the proposed pedestrian facilities or sidewalk. This is based off of the pedestrian and bicyclist master plan on the previous slide that I just showed. This seeks to balance the strategic goals, resident feedback, and construction impacts. Sidewalk is currently proposed along the east side of Shannon Drive. The north side of Cheer Drive, including from Fleetwood to Terara Road, which is recommended by staff but not part of the pedestrian bicyclist master plan, the west side of Fleetwood Drive, and the south/ west side of Lam Lane. Now, if approved, this these sidewalks would improve access to parks, schools, and transit. However, they would need to be maintained by residents. So, with that in mind, with the design, we have looked preliminary design, we have looked into uh maintenance and how we can make that as easy as possible for residents. We are proposing sidewalk along the west and north side of the road to help with the sun and melting and snow during the winter conditions. We also understand that there are fairly steep driveways along Fleetwood Drive. To help minimize the impact impacts to these driveways, we have looked at shifting the whole sidewalk and road corridor a few feet to the east to minimize the impact on those driveways. This also reduces um the total amount of retaining wall that we are expected to to need. The retaining wall is expected to be around 400 linear feet and under 3 ft tall. If approved, the sidewalk would improve access to the existing amenities near the project area, including Lewis Park, Maguire Park, Braar Park, and Ydina High School/View Middle School. >> [snorts] >> This is a typical section for streets with sidewalk proposed. The existing street widths here are 27 1/2 ft wide and there's currently two-sided parking. In the proposed conditions, these streets would be 24 ft wide. This is a reduction of approximately 3 and 1/2 ft. Parking would be reduced to one-sided and it would be on the sidewalk side. The sidewalk is 5t wide. That is the proposed sidewalk width. The boulevard is will be zero to five feet and this can be adjusted based on existing site constraints and impacts. So with that said, I'd like to thank you for your time and listening to me speak on the Prospect Nolles ACND roadway utility and a portion of the sidewalk presentation. I'd like to hand it over now to Andrew to talk a little bit more about the sidewalk and transportation. Thank you. >> All right, Mr. Jury. Thank you. stand by. I think we'll have some at least I've got some questions for you, but we'll we'll have Mr. Cypion speak first. >> Thanks, Ben. Thank you, Mayor, members of council. Um, as part of our typical process with these roadway reconstruction projects, we gave the transportation commission, excuse me, [clears throat] an opportunity to review staff's recommendations. U, that review took place at their October regular meeting. Um, the transportation commission supported the the sidewalks as proposed by staff. Um they uh some members suggested extending the sidewalk on Shannon Drive one block to the north up to Lee Valley Drive to collect a little bit more of that walk shed from the neighborhood. Um there was also a suggestion to include the intersection of 70th Street and Antrum Road on the north end of the project. Um specifically to extend the westbound bike lane uh along that segment. Um the commission also expressed some concern about um resident opposition to the sidewalk similar to previous year's projects. Uh and I'll invite Commissioner Lewis uh to come up and and u discuss a little bit more about that. Um but overall the transportation commission voted unanimously to endorse the proposed improvements as presented uh and also recommended additional analysis of that 70th Street and Antrim intersection um for a potential demonstration project. And you can see this graphic here shows where that westbound bike lane ends uh for that turn lane to go northbound on Antrram. Um and with that, I'll invite Chair Lewis to come up and speak a little bit more about the transportation commission's review of this project. >> All right, Mr. Cypion. Thank you. >> Mr. Chair, welcome. >> Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, staff. Thank you, members of council. Uh >> and thanks for being at the uh opening on Saturday on the Eline. Absolutely. Good to have you there. >> Exciting day for the community. >> So, as as Andrew mentioned, my name is Andy Lewis. I chair Dina's Transportation Commission. And just to add a little bit of commentary to the work that our commission does, we're an allv volunteer commission uh that advises staff and council on transportation matters both current in the community like traffic safety reports and street reconstruction projects like the one that we are here to talk about today. So, specific to tonight's hearing, uh we do revi we do review and provide input on street reconstruction projects each year. So, uh like we mentioned this, we've reviewed these three projects as we have uh projects in years past. Uh in this and other street reconstruction reviews, we have supported staff's recommendation to continue building bike and ped infrastructure that is planned in the city council's approved bike and ped master plan. So the bike and ped master plan exists in addition to the living streets and active routes routes school plans that guides council's decisions going forward. Our commission is also participating in the safe [clears throat] and equitable mobility action plan that we referenced earlier as well which is intended to both support and potentially uh succeed the plans that are currently in place for city council. Our recommendations here are based on our desire to see a complete and connected network for the city built for residents of all ages and abilities. In this one specifically, we felt it was very important to complete the north south connection between 70th and Dwey Hill to create an additional pedestrian connection to Lewis Park as well. These are important gaps in the network that we are asked to advise on and support [clears throat] council in delivering per the pad bike master plan. You'll see in our final recommendation related to 70th and antimum uh that was not in the pedike master plan, but we do also provide input at times for additional infrastructure that we'd like to see built in service of pedestrians and cyclists in the city. Our recommendations are purely advisory to council and to staff. Um but we try to bring the perspective of residents, our own lived experience in providing [clears throat] counsel uh with our recommendations and advice. Hope this adds some context to the recommendations and our support for the projects here today. I'll stand for any questions if there are any. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Questions for Chair Lewis. Member Risser. >> Could we go back to the image that showed the pathways the propo There we go. Okay. Um I can't help but notice that the proposed pathway on Cambridge, which is on the north, just ends at Terara Road and the parcel labeled 24, number 24, is property of the city of Edina. And I'm wondering, did the commission consider any way to get across Terara Road and to the park? Um, putting infrastructure in there so there would be sort of a seamless connection. >> Um, thank you for the question. I, if you don't mind, I'll speak. I know you were absent at the October meeting. >> Um, >> uh, thank you for the question, uh, Council Member Risser. Um, so the the pink line here shows that the the trail, um, the park trail at Lewis Park right now does actually daylight out to the street. Um, so there will be a there will be ped ramps that connect that sidewalk to the existing trail. Um, we uh could consider potentially a marked crosswalk in that area. However, we're also cognizant of the fact that the street to the north is a dead end that serves relatively few properties and there's very limited traffic in that section. So, at this time, we don't feel that a marked crosswalk is warranted. Um, but we would look in our design to be sure that that sidewalk and trail are adequately connected. and adequately marked. >> That is something we can consider as part of the design. Yes. >> Thank you. >> Other questions for staff or chair Lewis? >> Yes. Council member Jackson, >> can you please elaborate a little bit more on um Well, thank you first of all for everything, but what a um demonstration project is. Um I it sounds intriguing, but I don't really know what we're going to be demonstrating. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think there are a number of possibilities as a demonstration project. I think as an as an example and then I'll defer to to Andrew as the expert here is if if for example we wanted to contemplate a traffic circle for example but didn't have the funding wasn't weren't sure if it would fit in a particular intersection you consider doing that with Ballards or something else that was temporary try it during the summer maybe try it during a period that it doesn't impede snowplow operations and see what resident feedback is see how it works in terms of generating the behaviors that we look for so something temporary something that's hopefully inexpensive that we could study and see if it would be worth >> and that would be to improve safety for bicyclists and pedestrians. Correct. >> Correct. Yeah, it could be for either. >> In the in the context of this project specifically, it was more targeted toward bicyclists. Um the the concern here is that bicyclists that are going westbound for a long stretch, they have a protected facility, but then as they approach this intersection, they have to share the space with vehicles that are making that right turn. Um so a potential demonstration project for example could be to extend that bike lane all the way to the intersection using ballards using temporary uh striping evaluate it for a period of time to see what the impact to uh traffic is uh and before we make a decision to make that decision or not. >> Okay. And then uh to that end, what would be the reconstruction cycle that those changes could be incorporated? Is it you know, it seems to me that 70th has been torn up and and redone quite a bit recently. Um so at what what's the schedule for um when that could be built in? Is is there a future reconstruction plan so that if there's a great idea, it doesn't have to sit on the shelf for 50 years? >> That's a good question. Um 70th Street is not currently in our five-year reconstruction plan. Um however, if we were to do a demonstration project and then ultimately a a standalone um pen and bike project, um we could we could do that separate from a roadway reconstruction project. Um, and there's uh several grants out there that we could look to u to apply for as well to help fund a project like that in addition to um having the PAX fund pay for it. >> Okay, terrific. Thank you. >> Any questions for staff at this point in time? A couple of observations for me. Um I'm concerned about that 6 and 1/2t drive aisle lane in some of those locations um when we could be just a foot wider. Uh I don't remember where that was along the along the sequence of roadways where you're proposing a six and a half foot drive lane, but uh that that's a concern for me. I don't know if you have any observation on that. Just list it as a concern for now. >> I guess I would generally note that this what this graphic um the the 6 and 1/2t drive lane would be is the existing condition. Is this what you're referring to? Assuming this is assuming that vehicles are parked on both sides of the street. >> Um the what's proposed here would be the 8 and 1/2t. >> Okay, that's the existing. All right, good. Good. I missed that first time around. Yeah, >> so again here this proposed 27 foot graphic. >> I got it. I thought you were showing. Okay, >> this is kind of a worst case scenario if two vehicles happen to be parked on opposite sides directly opposite each other on the same side of the street. I got it. So what we typically see in a situation like that is those cars that are going through would have to generally stop and wait for the other one to pass. There would be some negotiation that would have to happen there. >> Okay. Um well so what what I get no I take it back. What I was concerned about was that the proposal to park on both sides of the street creates that 6 and 1/2t drive lane both directions in the middle right and the existing doesn't do that. So I that was the basis for my concerns is that you've you've narrowed up the drive aisle to accommodate parking on both sides of the street where in that neighborhood I don't even know if you need to have parking in both sides of the street because I hardly ever see anybody. It's a parking in that neighborhood on the street. It's a gorgeous part of our town uh with the twisting winding roadways and the beautiful homes and and it has this real tranquil sort of environment, but uh uh I'd rather I'd rather have a little bit wider drive aisle I think than than accommodate trying to accommodate parking on both sides of the street where that rarely occurs in my opinion. >> Maybe I'll answer this one a little bit. So this is a typical section we've been doing for years and you you said it most people aren't parking there. We're not going to stripe the parking lane. It's going to look very similar to what's out there today. Same same kind of understanding. And if you have a visitor at your house, they can park on one side. >> If you have a party, you're going to have cars on both sides and then you're going to have to negotiate. But most of the time, you're not going to have cars parked on both sides. >> I think park I think not striping it'll help. >> Not a striped lane. So I think that's maybe where this looks like there's going to be a white paint mark and there's not. >> Nothing. Yeah. Nothing's striped out there now. When people make their way through the neighborhood, then it's >> exactly >> they just because of the I call them hairprint turns or sharp turns and and the way the roads configured, I think people do drive pretty safely through there. >> Correct. So, we're not going to strike >> also because you just want to see the scenery and all the all the lovely homes. So, okay, that that's one area. I I think we're making a huge mistake not doing redoing 70th Street to remember Jackson's point from K Hill to 70th or Antrram. That's one of the worst sections of road in our entire town. That's that's like riding in a third world road. And so why aren't it's I'm assuming it's a state aid street. >> Exactly, Mayor. It's a state aid route. We don't have the funding. We're trying to do our progression through streets that are worse. There's worse streets. Our state aid is one of the biggest needs. I've told this council for years. We get that funding from the gas tax and tab fees and it doesn't keep up. So, we need to continue to advocate at the state level for more funding for state aid streets. So, that one is not part of the project and it's not in the five-year queue. >> I don't get it. I mean, I still don't get it because we got to accommodate that state aid issue some way somehow. This is an opportunity to to fix what's what's worst about what's over there is 70th Street. And then also to look at whether it makes any sense to have a roundabout at 70th and Antrum because that's that's a that's an awkward if you redid 70th you could rejig how you set the street up to accommodate all of these necessary uses including probably a roundabout at 70th and uh and Antrum which would take care of that that whole confusion over who's stopping who's not stopping. You know, it's it to me this is a golden opportunity missed if we don't do something about this now when we're doing this project. Now, of course, you haven't given anybody on 70th notification because they're not in the project area. >> Correct. >> But we have to I think I think we need to think that through because this is this is a chance to fix a big big problem over there to member Jackson's point. uh that's that I've noticed for years and it just keeps getting worse and worse in a hurry. So those are a couple of my observations. >> Yeah. I think we have a few more slides to get through. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um so [clears throat] uh last week council did also receive a petition from residents in this neighborhood um against some of the sidewalks that are proposed um specifically the sidewalks on Fleetwood Drive and Lam Lane. Um that petition was signed by 45 residents representing 33 properties. Um of the properties that are on Fleetwood and Lam about 71% are represented. Um of the properties that are uh specifically adjacent to where we're proposing the sidewalk, about 73% signed the petition. Um the petition states that we believe this project poses significant concerns regarding property rights, financial burdens, and safety issues. Um our typical process is to um respond to a petition with a staff report uh following its receivable by council. However, given the connection to the reconstruction project, we wanted to address the petition uh at this public hearing. Um so I'll start with the comments related to safety concerns. Um the petition notes that Fleetwood Lam are low volume streets uh which is accurate. Our current uh ADT shows less than 300 vehicles per day. um an 85th percentile speed of about 28 miles per hour, which is above the posted speed limit of 25 miles per hour. The petition in one point notes that there's an absence of safety concerns on these streets and then also says that there have been multiple accidents on these streets. Um I can tell you that our data shows that there's been one crash reported uh on these streets in the last 10 years. Um that crash involved uh a vehicle sliding off the road in icy conditions. Um, we've also only received one traffic safety request along this street, uh, and that was related to speeding and cut through traffic on Fleetwood Drive. The petition notes that, uh, sidewalks and narrower streets could increase the risk of safety. Uh however, it's staff's position that reducing the travel lane encourages slower vehicle speeds and also provides space, dedicated space for pedestrians and bicycles uh and helps move those vulnerable users off of the roadway onto a more protected facility. Um regarding private property rights, the petition notes that the proposed sidewalks will encroach on private property. Uh however, all of the improvements are proposed within the public right ofway. Um you can see this graphic here shows the right of way on Fleetwood Drive is about 60 ft wide. Um so the current street at 30t takes up about half of that space. Um but we still have roughly 15 feet on either side of the street um for that we use for uh public utilities, sidewalks, private utilities. Um so all of the improvements are proposed to be within that public rightway. Um there's a note about potential damage to irrigation systems because of the sidewalks specifically. um the utility work and the curb work that is proposed with this project are already going to impact irrigation systems that are along the curb. Um so the sidewalk is not adding any additional damage to those systems. There's also the note about steep driveways on the west side of Fleetwood Drive as as Ben uh already commented to. Um our proposal to reduce the street width helps minimize those construction impacts. Um, and we expect to work with individual property owners on specific construction limits for each driveway. Um, so that we can try to not make a steep driveway worse for any properties. Regarding the financial burdens, um, these sidewalks are proposed to be maintained by the adjacent residents. This is consistent with the city's sidewalk maintenance policy. Uh as these streets are not municipal state aid, they're not county, they're not in our active routes to school plan, and they're not adjacent to city properties. Um the city unfortunately does not have the resources right now to maintain um all of the sidewalks that we have. Um there are also concerns about liability um users slipping and falling on sidewalks. This is a common concern that we um that we receive. Again, the sidewalks are maintained uh by the adjacent property owners per our policy. um we can't offer a legal opinion regarding the liability issue. We recommend that uh property owners consult with their own attorneys or with their uh homeowners insurance. Um and then there's a note about potential increase in property taxes or assessments because of the proposed sidewalks. Um the construction costs, as Aaron mentioned, are not included in the special assessment. Those are paid for by our pedestrian cyclist safety plan or uh sorry, pedestrian and cyclist safety fund. Um and uh as far as after the sidewalk is constructed um and its impact potential impact on property valuation um it's difficult to say to what extent a sidewalk itself will have in increasing or decreasing the value of any specific property. Um there are many factors that go into um the uh the change in valuation of a property um including the street reconstruction itself. And with that, I'll turn it over to uh Engineer Ditzer to talk about the project costs, unless there are questions. >> Uh question. Yeah, member Urser, >> can you go back to the slide that shows the steep driveway concern? I did go out to this area and I walked it and those are amazingly steep driveways and the response that reducing lane width minimizes construction construction impacts. I need more. I don't really understand what you mean by that. >> Sure. So if if we were to keep the street as wide it is right now and then try to fit in a sidewalk on the west side um because of the grade that is required for that sidewalk to meet ADA requirements that would then increase the slope of the of the driveways on that side. However, by narrowing the width of that road, in addition to trying to push more of those impacts onto the east side where the driveways are flatter, um we can essentially try to hold the slope of those driveways to what it is right now, even with the addition of the sidewalk. >> It's interesting because the steep side of the street is the one that's getting the sidewalks and then the street that has the flatter lots is not. And just thinking about it in terms of a safety issue, I'm sort of wrestling with that. >> Can I can I jump in on that, Council Member Risser? Uh, one thing to note, too, is the the sidewalk in our 30% draft design. We haven't done a full design on it. The sidewalk is proposed on the back side of the existing curb today. The preliminary design has a five-foot turf boulevard in there. that can vary. So in theory, the areas that we're most concerned about, we can shift the sidewalk east so it'd be even further east than the existing curb line is today to minimize those concerns on those steep driveways. So it actually provides a little bit more flexibility for adjusting at those ste the steepest of the steep driveways there. >> It's not just Fleetwood. But I think it's also Chemrich. Um >> and um >> it's all >> okay. Lam is not getting a sidewalk though, right? >> The very north is the very northernmost section of it is. >> Okay. I did not walk up to that very north section. I apologize to residents of Lam. Um but I will do that before the vote. >> What's the proposed width on Fleetwood? 27 >> 24 >> 24T >> 24 feet. Okay. >> So, you've given yourself room to work to keep the existing grades as they are on the west side. Even though even though you'd add a sidewalk, you just shift everything over a little bit. >> Correct. >> Yep. It's our goal to maintain that 5-ft grass boulevard for snow storage, particularly in the winter, but it does give us flexibility to adjust it in and out at those steepest driveways. Council member Agnu. >> So I I do want to echo um Council Member Risser in in the steepness of some of these and I'm sure you all have been out there as well and you you can appreciate how even today there's um impacts to vehicles and and scratching of of bumpers and all of that. So, the question I have is, you know, I I understand once we get to the 30% design, we'll know a little bit more of the specifics within some of these properties, but is there even any opportunity for us to help mitigate some of those issues, too? And I don't know if we can raise up the street a little bit or or speak to me overall about the the geography of the area and what opportunity we might have to not just not make it worse, but potentially make it better for some residents. Yeah, I could take that. Thank you for the question, uh, Council Member Agnu. [clears throat] So, typically, just to kind of reiterate what we're talking about is we can shift over the entire roadway corridor to minimize the impacts on those driveways. When we do that, we also need to put in a new apron for these properties. Um, and then also these the sidewalk going through their driveway has to be ADA. So, it has to be at a certain percentage. We can then tie in to the existing driveway grades. And we do have a slide that we can show a little bit later on this, but we can mess with those grades kind of at the tie-in point. uh we can only go back so far obviously but there is some room to kind of tweak at the construction limits basically. >> If I can jump in council member you actually provided one of the solutions is raising the grade up a little bit. We do have to be careful when you raise the grade up to help one side that you're not hurting the other side making it higher and then you're back pitching that driveway in the east side. So that would be a very design detailed thing that we would look at over the winter. And we do I mean every single driveway connection during the winter gets we sometimes we spend hours and days on certain driveways making sure that we're not going to make things worse. >> Council member Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just to follow on of that, if I'm an individual resident who lives on Fleetwood or on Lam or Kimrich and I'm worried about this, how what's my experience going to be like? Are you going to come talk with them and and talk them through what can be done with their driveway? What can they expect? >> Sure. We're we're we're always open, council member. Uh we're always open to meet with them. Um, typically if we're not making anything worse, we wouldn't go out of our way to say, "Hey, let's meet on this. [clears throat] Uh, but we're so we're certainly can we're able to meet anybody uh before construction begins and talk them over each and every driveway and what we're proposing to do." >> Terrific. Thank you. So would there be some circumstances where uh even though you shift the road further east than the existing roaded uh where you might be adding lenin stone reinforcement walls along the west side on some of the properties? >> I could answer that, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, we do we do foresee some retaining wall being needed. Um we're anticipating about 400 linear feet. Now it's kind of scattered throughout the project area. Um, in addition, we anticipate that the retaining wall will be less than three feet high. >> Okay. Yeah, I think you said that in the initial part of the presentation. So, nothing nothing above 3T in height, but some in some places >> from our >> you'll have up up to three feet. >> That's correct, mayor. >> Okay. Okay. Thanks for that. Anybody else have questions for further questions for staff? Otherwise, we'll open it up for public testimony. >> I think we have a few more slides to finish. We haven't hit the slides. Okay. Few more project costs and assessments. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I guess we better go through those costing elements. >> Yes. Thank you. Uh okay. Let's transition to the estimated project costs and funding sources for the prospect nulls project. Total project cost is $14.7 million. That includes the construction cost, engineering costs, clerical finance cost, and it also includes the construction contingency. The roadway project cost is estimated at 6.6 million. That's going to be funded uh by property taxes or about 60% of the roadway project cost will be by property taxes. Uh the rest of the roadway will be funded by special assessments about 40% uh for each of the respective assessment districts and I'll touch on that in the upcoming slides. The rest of project cost will be utility improvements funded by the respective city utility funds and then the proposed sidewalk funded by the pedestrian cyclist safety or PAX fund. All right. So, this is a duplicate slide from my intro presentation, but it is important to uh reinforce this that uh the special assessments are valid if the assessment does not exceed the special benefit measured by the increase in market value due to the improvement. Uh because of this, we hired a licensed and qualified appraisal firm. They did prepare a preliminary market benefit estimate report for prospect nullles. That report said that there was a disparity in uh potential benefit in the neighborhood. Therefore, because of that disparity, we separated out the project area into three separate assessment districts. Assessment district one is shown in the red, assessment district two in the orange properties and then assessment district three uh the purple and the multifamily property location. So that market benefit report was split into three separate reports and those uh market benefit reports were uploaded to the better together project website back in September. All right. So, what did that what do those benefit reports say? They said that based on the proposed improvements, district one, which is again in the red, said that these properties could see an average price price benefit range of 20 to $25,000 per lot based on the proposed improvements. District two, these again are the orange properties. These could see an average price benefit of 15 to $20,000 range per lot. And then district three in the purple, these multifamily properties could see an average price benefit of 3 to $7,000 per town home or condo unit. All right, let's get into the estimated roadway assessments for each district, beginning with district one. District one again is shown with the red dashed line here. There are 61 properties in this district. The uh single family homes are proposed to be assessed 1 REU. The corner lots with one side street outside the project area as shown in red. These are assessed at 0.5 REU. There's a purple lot down here that had one side street previously assessed with the old assessment policy. So, we're going to assess that property. The remainder of that one reu uh that's at 0.67 REU. There's also the green colored lot which is a city-owned lot that houses the uh Dublin reservoir which is a water storage facility uh based on that critical infrastructure. Uh this is not a developable lot. So therefore we are proposing zero reus for this lot. So we sum up all the different uh total and partial reus and we get 58.67 reus for district 1. To calculate the estimated roadway assessment, we take the roadway project cost for district 1 only. We separate out the portion covered by property taxes and we divide it by the total number of district 1 reus. we get an estimated roadway assessment of $19,000 per REU for district 1. If you remember from the previous slide, the prelim preliminary market benefit range for district 1 was 20 to $25,000 per lot. A side note, I I mentioned the previous assessment policy uh pre2021. For reference, uh with that old policy, uh the estimated assessment amount would be $41,600 per REU. So, significant reduction in the estimated assessment amount. I I do want to point out for district 1 and district 2 and district three, these estimated assessment amounts, uh they're estimated They will not be final until construction is complete. They do include a construction contingency. So, we do hope these amounts go down for all three districts. Okay. District two. These are the properties shown with the orange dashed line. There's 159 properties in district 2. The blue properties are assessed one REU. Uh the red properties have one side street outside the project area. These will be assessed 0.5 RUS. Again, we've got a city-owned lot which is a storm water pond. Because this is not a developable lot, this will be assessed zero reus. Again, we summarize up all the RUS for district 2. We get 153 reus to calculate the roadway assessment. Uh [clears throat] district 2 roadway project cost. Separate out the portion covered by property taxes divided by the district 2 reus. We get an estimated assessment amount of $9,700 per REU. That's less than the preliminary market benefit range of 15 to $20,000 per lot. And again, compared to the pre2021 assessment policy, the assessment amount in district 2 would have been $23,400 per REU. Okay. District three. This is the uh scenario C land use class. The multifamily properties shown with the purple dashed line. Uh the multifamily uh town homes condo units will be assessed 0.5 as shown in red. The orange property uh this uh uh town home and condome property. This has one side street outside the project area. Khill Road is not included in the project area. Therefore, it's assessed half or 0.25 RUS per multif family unit. Again, we summarize up these uh RUS and we get 20 RUS for district 3. To calculate the roadway assessment amount, we take the roadway project cost for drive, separate out the portion covered by property taxes, divided by the 20 RU, and we get an estimated assessment amount of $3,400 per REU. And to kind of simplify this, because there are not any one zero or excuse me, one reu properties in district three, the uh red town home or condo units that are assessed 0.5 RUS, those will be assessed $1,700 per town home or condo unit. And again, the orange uh condo and town home properties have the side street outside the project area. So that's 0.25 25 RU. Those town home or condo units will be assessed $850 per town home or condo unit. This is less than the preliminary market benefit range of $3 to $7,000 per town home unit. And then again with the pre assessment policy would have been $4,100 per town home or condo unit. Okay, wrapping up. Uh before I can conclude, uh approving pedestrian improvements requires a minimum of three out of five council votes in favor to pass the project. In totality, four out of five. Uh so in conclusion, staff believes the project is feasible, cost-effective, and necessary to improve the public infrastructure. So staffer recommends making a motion to close the public hearing at noon December 10th. So giving an additional day and a half after this evening to provide testimony on the better together project site and to continue that action on the item to the December 16th city council meeting for Prospect Nolles A and D or improvement number BA458. That concludes the presentation. Thank you. Uh staff will stand for questions and comments from mayor members of the council. Yeah, Council Member Agnu has a question for you right away. >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh, so as I'm looking at the packet online, um, just looking for point of clarification here, I see a discrepancy in the market benefit estimate for district 3. Um, so what I'm seeing in the packet is 15 or one, yeah, 1,500 to 2500 per town home, 1,00 to 1,700 per condo. And then you said that it was 3,000 to 7,000. So one um the asterisk here what was communicated to residents when we posted it on better together and then also kind of provide an update for me on on why the numbers changed from the packet and and what led to that discrepancy. >> So the good news is uh Mayor Agnu, thank you for the for question. The preliminary market benefit report had the $3 to $7,000 town home town home or condo unit. I think quite frankly it was an error on our part. I I think what got confusing is again is these properties have they don't have a single 1.0 reu. They're all either 0.5 or 0.25. So we erroneously take took the 3,000 to7,000 and divided it by two when those values were already noted by town home or condo unit. So it was just a mistake on our part and we corrected that here this evening. And then can you also validate for me that this has been corrected in what we've posted online for anyone that may be referencing it on better together or that we will >> um yes absolutely we can and we so we Good question. We can reiterate that the preliminary market benefit reports that are online are accurate. >> Perfect. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Any questions for Mr. Dysler? >> Okay. Anything else from staff? All right. Well, this is a this is a public hearing matter. Yeah. Stand by. There may be some questions here that we need answered after we have some of our fellow residents come up and testify on on uh their their thoughts on on the assessments. Uh so, I'm going to open it up for public testimony. Feel free to come up. Remember, you got three minutes. Come on up, give us your name. Don't give us your address. And uh you'll have three minutes. You'll get that yellow warning light. Thanks for being with us. Thanks for your patience tonight. You've been sitting in the front row patiently waiting. Actually, John Elliott. I live on Lee Valley Road. Won't give you the address. Been there 74 years. And I'm here. Can you hear [clears throat] me? Well, okay. >> We can't hear you. Well, >> I'm asking that you only approve the pavement replacement of the project because I think it's very dangerous to bicyclists and pedestrians and other uses because it proposes narrowing the road. I've heard of it sharpening the turns and the barrier curves which you heard earlier. You have to stay away from that pushes the bicycles and pedestrians and we have roller skiers act in groups and uh dog walkers actually bikes in groups. They're practicing on the hills pushes them closer to the traffic. I've heard this theory of traffic calming. I I don't totally believe it, but you know, as an avid biker, I'd rather be missed by a faster car than hit by a slower one. Uh I [snorts] Well, really? And uh I So, and your your questionnaire, how many people were concerned of speed? 73% No. 21% won. So, don't give me the traffic calming thing. And I've seen that 70th Street. Oh, we got to have bicycle lanes and it's going to be traffic calming and all that. We need the bike lanes. I drive that twice a week, end to end at least. And it isn't one time in 10, even in the best summer, that I see even one bicycle. So, uh, I'm, uh, I'm, if, if you want to make a surmountable curve, that's fine, but the street is not getting chewed up on the edges so much as is right in the middle. Uh, your survey had absolutely no direct questions in it about just about anything that was going to be done. Didn't say, "Oh, you want a narrower street? Do you want a sidewalk? Do you want one side parking? That was just a fluff. Um the only question on only a question on intersections asked if the road is too wide and that had to do with intersections. 0% said yes. Uh if you saw the road in the summertime with all the lawn service trailers, remodeling trailers, sometimes with semi-trailers 40t long, you wouldn't think the road is too wide. And you're always comparing there with 6 and 1/2t cars or six foot cars. These trailers are 8 and 1/2 ft wide. That's the legal limit. That's what they do. And the cost, why is this so expensive? It's expensive because if you narrow the street, you have to move all the mailboxes and the storm drains and extend the driveway aprons and so forth. I got to think there's something better to do with that money. G. And was there a study about how many pedestrians are going to use these sidewalks? Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Elliot. So just so I'm understanding you properly, are you suggesting that they you approve the pavement portion of the project but leave the roadway on its existing width? >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you for that. >> That's the that's the big point. >> All right. Thank you. Hi, my name is Christina Noterman and I absolutely agree with him. I think that we should redo the streets, but I do not think that we should do sidewalks. So, um I know back in 2015 we had the pedestrian and bicycle plan. The plan emphasized creating a safer, more connected, and more comfortable network for people walking, biking, and recreating. In practice, this project may reduce safety and community use rather than enhance it. So, for three reasons. One, community walking groups. So, I'm actually part of one of the community walking groups. Every single morning at 7:00 a.m., we walk. And there's between 5 to seven of us. And we also have dogs. And we cannot walk first of all on the sidewalks. Right now, as we all know, like we've gotten snow every single day. And so there even if we had a sidewalk, we'd never be able to actually walk on the sidewalk. So now we're going to be in the street, but now you're making the street smaller and we know we have all these crazy turns. Like you're actually creating it more dangerous again. So I'm trying to walk and now I'm not going to be able to walk because I'm going to be nervous. And also it's dark out when we go out and dark out when we're in the afternoon walking, right? I also have two teenage sons who thankfully do have a bus as an option, but many times they bike to school. And so they are biking down as uh they should be on the street. They should not be on the sidewalk, but yet now you're going to make it much more narrow and they're not going to be able to be doing that. And then the third thing I think uh this gentleman also mentioned, we have a whole bunch of Nordic skiers that come through our neighborhood. And my boys actually when they were two or three, they're now teenagers, they used to call them the click clackers. And it was so much fun to be able to like watch them go around our neighborhood, right? Like we have this beautiful aspect of community that exists. And so I am wholeheartedly for the being able to become more pedestrian friendly, to be able to create more community. I just don't think that sidewalks are needed to be able to do that. And I would highly recommend for all of you to be able to come out and see what happens in our neighborhood and how to be able to make that an even more special place. >> Yeah. >> Thanks, Chris. >> Yeah, of course. >> Good evening. >> [clears throat] >> My name is Nick Dalbeck, resident in this area on uh Fleetwood Drive and I'm actually up here with my boys. Um just wanted to hit on a couple of points and kind of echoing the same kind of comments throughout the rest of this community here. Um just going to touch on a few points that you guys had mentioned in regards to first you guys talked about the the distance between was it Khill or the Khill being the through street. Um we already have a couple different options in regards to streets that go through. So you got Cahill that connects 70th and Dwey and along with Galisonon. So as far as like having another cut through street, you already got a couple different options that can serve as 70th and then all the way down to Kill. The other aspect you guys mentioned was the Hunter safety aspect of it and that's what I brought my boys up here with is currently my boys uh if you guys want to do a quick introduction. >> My name is Aiden and my name is Jacob. Um, and we play kickball on our street. Yeah. >> And we like how it's a bigger street and, um, if there was sidewalks, it'd make it narrower and there'd be less room for us to play. And if there were cars coming, like it'd be narrower. So like it it also brings up a safety concern for us playing. >> Yeah, >> that's it. >> Okay. So, why don't you tell us when you're playing kickball in the street now, what do you do when cars come? Oh, we go off to the side, but if there are like sidewalks, we don't know if there's also a bicycle people who are like going to like also be on the bicycle paths. >> Okay. Thanks, Aiden. All right. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> Uh thank you for the opportunity to uh comment. Um John Cordivine. live on Lam with my lovely wife Trish and uh mayor I have um if you didn't do the sidewalks you could save that money for 70th redo would be one thing >> um >> you're with me on the 70th street thing [laughter] >> you're that's valid what you're talking about um the the reason we're living where we're living and many I think of my fellow neighbors Um, and you know, my wife and I have lived all over the country in communities that had sidewalks, did not have sidewalks. We decided to live where we live because of the larger lots and the capability and the buffer from the street and the traffic. Um, and so to your point, Mayor, I think it is very bukallic. It's a very lovely area. You're going to really dramatically change the aesthetics of that community. I get better together. I understand that. But better together is not a one-sizefits-all. What's good for Northeast Edina might not be the best for Southwest. And you have to look at the original aesthetics and the city planners who put that together to draw community in a different manner out in the southwest corridor and where we live. The other thing I think you're really going to face a huge liability issue with what you're doing with those sidewalks, especially on that west side of uh Fleetwood and up in Lam as well. So, it's in all I I would really ask you to relook at better together. We get it. We understand it. Uh we're not an area that is similar to other parts of Edina. We still bike and walk and get to wherever we need to do in a very easy manner because of the original planners created that environment for us. So, we're very happy about where we are. We understand the street needs to be redone. Fine. Yeah, let's get that done. But that picture you had up earlier with that little curve and those wider streets, that's why we're there and we love it. Yeah. >> It's a lovely neighborhood. >> Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, John. >> Hello, my name is Melissa Cohen. I have lived in this neighborhood for more than 16 years. I also grew up in Edina, so I'm a longtime Edina resident. I support the street improvement project. I'm that is fine with me, but I do not support the narrowing of the street nor the sidewalks. my house. Selfishly, I'm on the corner of Lanham and Fleetwood. So, I would get over 200 feet of sidewalk and 100 ft of that retaining wall on my property. I am not in favor of that. I am not in favor of the maintenance and all the hassle that's going to come with that because, as the city staff said, that's all on me. I chose my home with the nice big green lawn out front and yes, the city may legally have a right of way, but that's still my property. That's part of my home and where my even though it's hilly, you know, where my kids can play. Very recently, you know, we have neighborhood gatherings and my home, they asked if we could be the place where everyone could gather on the hill to watch some a street performer that we hired and put adding a sidewalk, taking all that out of my yard and adding that retaining wall would really disrupt my home and also I feel our neighborhood. I also take issue with the city staff calling this necessary. It is not necessary. We all walk and bike in the neighborhood. I have two children. I'm very comfortable with them biking and walking. My eighth grader bikes to Valley View. No problem. My daughter walks down to Lewis Park. This is not necessary for people who want a sidewalk. There are other ways to use a sidewalk. For people who want to cut through, it is a lowra neighborhood. This is a quiet neighborhood street. We are not near France like the 72nd neighborhood. Why I totally get they want a sidewalk. We are in a different place. We are in a quiet neighborhood. This does not require a sidewalk. I also don't appreciate the comment about the resident input. You know, concerns coming at the 11th hour. I don't appreciate that at all. That was on one of the slides. And there were more than 60 of us at the meeting in August all with the same sentiment. This is not last minute. The petition is not last minute. We have felt this way. Maybe the plan, I get it. The the concept of the living streets, you know, wanting to connect the whole city. It's already connected. This is a cutthrough in a quiet neighborhood with beautiful hills and curves, but the narrowing of the street, like everyone said, with the lawn companies and the other trucks and, you know, the parties people have for grad parties and the like, there's no reason to narrow our street. and we do not feel that will be a benefit. So, thank you for listening. >> Yeah. Thanks, Melissa. I can kind of see your yard in my head as I've driven over there. That whole sweeping corner of property you've got there. Okay. Thanks for that. Yeah. Uh thank you all for this opportunity. My name is John Bru. I am on Fleetwood Drive. Uh I'd like to offer a different perspective as a whole. One, I support everything that's been said tonight. Uh the widening of or the narrowing of the streets is is a major concern. The sidewalk is causing all of that. I am a grandparent of a special needs granddaughter. So, I've got a unique perspective. I'm looking at this in in looking at the sidewalk. The sidewalk, if you look at the ADA requirements, a maximum grade of 5%. I have driven that street, and I'm lucky enough to have a car that has an inclinometer. And the street right outside my house, which I'm at the top, the north side of Fleetwood, is 4%. When you get into that winding, sweeping curve, it goes to 7 plus%. you are going to put a sidewalk and cause a an immense amount of safety issue for your public by that sidewalk. It will be steep. It will be slippery. It will be a liability for these homeowners to try and maintain that and prevent the lawsuits. This is this is a concern. So as as we look at what is causing narrowing of streets, it's a sidewalk. The sidewalk cannot be built in that area and maintain compliance with Mandot standards. That's a big concern. The last point I would I would make to this is and Mayor Hland, you made this comment and I was hoping you would go here, but uh you cut just short of it. uh that narrowing of the streets causes 8 1/2% or 8 1/2t drive lanes two that's 17 ft. If you look at the standard for emergency trucks, fire engines, buses, 20 ft is what they recommend. So we are creating a issue for not only safety of the sidewalk but also emergency vehicles. If you're parking in that area, just happen to be parked. If it's summer and we've got uh other trucks and lawn care equipment and other things in that area, that is creating more and more constraint into that area. And I'm concerned about the ability just to get a emergency vehicle through that area. There is if you're looking for a solution, if you need a sidewalk, which believe me, I don't believe we do, plan them. The only the the only point of destination between 70th and Dwey is Lewis Park. Fleetwood is not the most direct route to that. So if you're going to look for something, if it has to be there, reconsider where that sidewalk is going. It's completely unnecessary in my opinion simply because for all of the statements been made. It creates more safety issues for the pedestrians, for the residents of the area, for anybody that's going to use that sidewalk just by narrowing the streets and creating that sidewalk on a steep environment. But if you have to do it, I think you need to really look at at what your design criteria is here. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you, John. Good evening. >> Good evening. My name is Anna Jens and I live on Lanham Lane. Um I helped organize the petition that was submitted and um I just wanted to highlight that 85% of the people that were asked to sign the petition, we weren't able to reach everyone because people weren't home. There were constraints with that, signed the petition. People in this neighborhood do not want the sidewalk and I think they've thought about it. People have considered the I mean lots of people like sidewalks. They don't think it fits in our neighborhood. Um so I just like to highlight some points from the petition. The first is that the installation is unnecessary. Our neighborhood has low traffic volume and it already serves the needs of the community. Kids bike up that hill constantly to go to Valley View and to um Adina High School. and the width allows them to do that. If you narrow it, they're going to be stuck on sidewalks with the pedestrians. There's also walking kids. I think that you're going to create more problems than you're solving. Second, I know that they said that there was has only been one accident, the curve on Lanhem. I don't believe that's true. Um I have lived in my house for seven years. There was a neighbor across the street. She said that a car ended up in her um in her lawn when she first moved in and they had to change all their landscaping so that they could block it more. Secondly, there's a mailbox on the curve on Lanheim Lane. And my understanding cuz another neighbor ran into that mailbox who lives on Fleetwood said that when she went to apologize and offer to help rebuild it, they told her that mailbox has been hit three times by cars. That's four times. And the way the curve works, if you've been there, is it curves and then it goes down. And the site is I I live on that curve. It's difficult to see. And so if you if you narrow that street, you're narrowing that curve further. And I think you're creating more of a safety risk. Um, additionally, I know we've talked about this pitch on Fleetwood. My driveway also has a steep pitch. And if the pitch is furthered anymore, it will be akin to how it is on Fleetwood. And so I'm I would like to at least make sure that the the sidewalk is further out. Um secondly, or another point about narrowing the roadway, and I know this was mentioned a lot, you should drive that street during the day. There are work vehicles and yard vehicles on that street constantly, and if you narrow the roadway, it is going to be very difficult for um cars to get by. And then finally, um, you're going to change the character of the neighborhood. This is an area that we bought in because it it's in a city, but it has a little bit more of a rural or a more rolling hill feel to it, and it's beautiful. And if you narrow the streets, you add this sidewalk, and then you add retaining walls, which I think are a big problem with this plan, you're just going to change the entire aesthetic of this neighborhood, which I think is unfair. And I I wonder if you did a property valuation study of that street, whether it's going to actually decrease property values. I know you broke it up by section, but has anyone looked at this particular this particular path of the sidewalks? >> So, thank you. >> Yeah, thanks, Anna. Anyone else? >> Okay, Mrs. Hbert's going to come back up. >> Yes, I am. Bikes go on every street. >> Alice Halbert. Um, I just want to clear up that an extended gutter pan is not a bike lane. They're different. It could be used as a bike lane, but it's not necessary. There is one on Gleon down at the bottom where the new roundabout is at Brayar which I often ride on it. I don't know if it's three feet probably. It does have a line painted but it's not a bike lane. There's no sign saying it's a bike lane and trucks park in it all the time. So, it's just a barrier that alerts a car that there could be something going on there, but it's not officially a bike lane unless you choose to make it one. So, I don't think we should throw it out and say that can't be done in the neighborhood as a way to make biking safer. The other thing that would really help, if we're going to connect to Lewis Park and try to improve pedestrians and bikes getting there, then how about a crosswalk across Cahill Road so you can actually get to the Nine Mile Creek Trail? because crossing Cahill on a bike is tough and it has that crazy pork chop there and I don't know should I go on the left side of the pork chop or the right side? I don't know. It's trying to figure out how to negotiate that. So I've asked for a crosswalk there before but no one has done anything. It would be really helpful for bike traffic to be able [clears throat] to get out of our neighborhood on Dewey Hill Road and cross on a crosswalk to get to the Nile Creek Trail which is just down East Bush Lake Road there. But I want to confirm that everything everyone's saying about the neighborhood and the character of the neighborhood is correct. It was built so that it could not be a cutthrough. There's one way in and out at the top and one way in and out at the south side. And all of the streets come off of those portals and weave down the hill. We don't get cut through traffic because it's just not efficient to go through there. And the kids do play in the streets all the time and because they're nice and wide and everybody knows they're there. is just part of our little community there. So, I think and I don't like the idea of the barrier curbs. I mean, we've had the extended the um surmountable curbs have been there since I've been there for 35 years. It's part of the character of the neighborhood. I don't think an excuse that oh that's how we do it is good enough when you're looking at changing something that is part of the identity of that area and actually of a a number of areas on the southwest side must have been a thing when it was built but you know rolling green that's north but over around Parkwood area there are a lot of surroundable curbs over there too so I don't think that should necessarily be changed and I think the you know this the narrowing the streets streets is an issue that will be harder for bikes to get through when you've got trucks parked on the street, a narrower road. So, I think, you know, with the budget increases that we're we're seeing, our tax increases, I feel like Cadillac projects where we're doing the very best, the state of the art, it's in our plan, we're going to do it. Maybe we need to look and say it would be nice to have, but is do we need it? Is this the best use of where we should put the money? I think the project could be done for a little less if we didn't go for everything being top of the line when you don't necessarily really need it. >> Anyway, thank you. >> Thank you, M. Hbert. >> Thank you. >> Uh, hey, John Uker. I live on Fleetwood. I've been there since 17. Uh, walk my dog almost every day. It's the best. It's rural. It feels It feels right. Um, I just want to echo everyone's sentiments. You would drastically change the aesthetics of our neighborhood. I think sidewalks are meant to connect you to places. I don't really feel like these would connect me any better to any places. I don't live in East Dina. I don't need to be I don't need a sidewalk to go to commerce. Um, our place is already very walkable. I love it how it is. Um I think that I'm I'm really concerned about the safety and the steepness. I don't know if I'd personally walk on a a sidewalk on our street around the curve because I don't know if I could note if there's ice or not. I feel much safer on a paved road where there's been plows and sand and salt and I'd rather walk on that than a steep road. I don't think it's fair to compare a sidewalk street and our street to anywhere else. I don't know if there's any steeper streets in Adina. maybe on Gleon and I'm pretty sure the city takes care of some of those sidewalks. Um so I echo the sentiments of the liability of everyone in here and I just think that um the money could be used in a much better way. Thank you. >> Yeah, thanks Mr. Uker. >> Good evening Mayor, council members. I'm Ryan Bryock and I also live on Fleetwood. We've got one of the steepest driveways on the west side of the street near the bottom of the hill near the blind corner. I'm an avid dog owner, runner, cyclist, and daily sidewalk user. And I've frequently used the sidewalks in Dewey Hill, Gleon, Valley View, 70th. Um, and what all these streets have in common is that they were designed and sized with sidewalks from the outset. Sidewalks make sense on thoroughfairs where roads are not wide enough to create meaningful separation between motorists and other users. These conditions simply aren't met in our neighborhood. It wasn't planned with sidewalks in mind and they aren't needed today. I respect and appreciate the intent of the pedestrian and bicycle master plan and the good intentions behind the living streets policy, but our neighborhood is the wrong place to apply these policies. The council has the authority and the responsibility to exclude sidewalks from this project. In brief, narrowing the streets will make them less safe. The addition of sidewalks will permanently damage the established character of our neighborhood and unused sidewalks are a burden to residents and a capital improvement that requires ongoing funding and maintenance. Narrowing the streets to 25 me 25 ft will make them less safe, not more. We have a vibrant neighborhood and on street parking is common, as you've heard tonight. Narrowing the streets by 20% will create regular vehicular conflict, especially in the winter months when the streets are not plowed curb to curb. And as Alice and Christina and this gentleman um and Anna noted, narrower roads increase the risk of bike and vehicle collisions. Our neighborhood streets are also topographically distinct. You heard about the inclines in our neighborhood. There are at least three spots where vehicles regularly come into conflict. the curve on Fleetwood, the top of the hill on Fleetwood, and the junction of Lam and 70th. Narrowing these streets will make these conflicts and these conditions even worse. And trading real vehicular and bicycle risk for theoretical pedestrian benefit is neither prudent nor equitable. Adding sidewalks with will permanently damage the established character of a 1960s suburban neighborhood that residents moved here to enjoy. Southwest Edina has a distinctly suburban feel. We slott it out and enjoy the beauty of rolling green lawns and the unique topography of the hills. This is not a thoroughare. It's not a transit way and it's not a transit way for um people looking to navigate north south. It's used by local residents, dog walkers, pedestrians, cyclists, skate skiers, and we've all successfully navigated the neighborhood for 50 years without issue. The original planners clearly saw the need for sidewalks in the surrounding busier roads, but intentionally kept them off of our streets as they should remain. Once the concrete is poured, there's no going back. It's tough as a resident to hear platitudes from city staff about we'll figure it out. We'll spend hours and hours and hours. Perhaps if it's that difficult, it wasn't meant to be. We've got aging residents, right, who are going to be tasked with maintaining these sidewalks. as liability when our homeowners insurance premiums are increasing significantly. And we we heard a number of inconsistency in city staff testimony tonight that I'll leave you with. So, how can the city claim it's essential to build the sidewalk connector to improve transit and not maintain it in the winter? How can this be a necessary route to school when it's not in your accessible schools plan? So, I encourage the council to prioritize listening to the residents tonight versus adhering to decisions or recommendations that were made more than a decade ago with limited input. Thank you, John. Or thank you, Ryan. Excuse me. >> Thank you, Mr. Bhawk. >> Good evening. >> Uh, thank you for taking the time to listen to all of our commentary. I want to say I agree with everything that's been stated. In fact, I sent a letter on the 3rd and many of you accepted my invitation to come visit our street and walk it with me. And uh it sounds like uh Council Member Risner, you did as well this weekend and I appreciate that. Um I'll echo everything that was said. Uh we have a very steep roadway. You've heard that. Narrowing it. Also, I invite you to go there tonight. Go to the bottom of the hill. Try to drive up the hill. If a car is coming the other way and you have to navigate that in the snow, I wish you the best of luck with a narrow roadway. Um, beyond what everybody said, for me per personally, uh, we have the steepest driveway on Fleetwood Drive. Uh, sorry, Brian, but [laughter] we can compare our tattoos at the bottom of our driveway from all the cars scraping, but based on my estimate, we have 16 1/2° slope. It's very significant. Many of you have seen that. Um I understand that as designed today in the 30% the sidewalk and the boulevard are additive so away from our property but from the back of the curb or even a little in. We can't lose any grade first off. Second, for me to get on our driveway right now, we have to come at an angle. I cannot come head on. If I come head-on, I scrape. I know more about angle clearance on vehicles than I ever thought I would know. Okay? And that's all because of where we live. And we chose that. I didn't choose to make it steeper. I didn't choose to make it inaccessible. That clearance is based on a head-on approach. And if we add, even if we add into away from our property, I lose my approach angle. I can't approach along the curb. I have to appro I have to clear those first 10 feet and I understand there can be a little bit of a slope there to help me but it's not going to help me enough. It's going to make it worse. I lose my approach. Many of these neighbors can uh testify that they've seen us try to navigate our driveway. It is quite a comical scene, especially after a snowfall, and we do not want to make it worse. Again, I echo everything everybody said. Um, I just I really think that's a huge liability to add the sidewalks as well. But, uh, beyond that, my biggest concern is I want to be able to get in my house. If I can't get in my house or if it's harder, my valuation goes down significantly. And so, as it relates to the constitutional effect, I'm I'm in a detriment. I lose a lot of value by this project. >> Did you give us your name for the record, too? >> Uh, Matt Melson. Sorry. Thank you, Matt. >> Good evening. >> Evening, mayor, council. Uh Jeff Kessle, lifetime uh resident of Edina and u now this is my second goound. I was fortunate enough to be on Casco and got the $22,000 bill. Um but um here I I understand it. Uh I have a 40 uh road in front of me. It needs to get redone. It doesn't need to get shrunk and they don't need a sidewalk. It uh as I the the ladies walk by. I can set my watch at 7:30. They walk by and I see people coming back. I see kids riding their bikes. That road can't be any more narrow. I've seen the the huge trucks with the lawnmowers and that's only going to get more and more as we go forward. So hopefully you guys uh uh I never got any say the first go around and hopefully you guys listen this go around because we don't need the sidewalk. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks, Jeff. Anyone else? Okay, you can few of you out there that haven't testified. You can think about it while we ask a couple questions. Uh colleagues, any questions for staff? >> Anybody online? >> Yes. >> Oh, how about that? >> Well, I shouldn't have been presumptive. I have had someone online for quite some time. So, um, caller, I'm going to unmute your line and then you'll begin by stating your name. Um, and then go ahead with your comments. >> Hi, thank you. This is Taylor Brushwine. Um I'm calling in support of implementing the plans uh laid out by our city guiding documents as a means to achieve the goals that are laid out in those same documents. So in the comprehensive plan, in the climate action plan, in the living streets plan, and in the bike and ped master plan, there are these goals set out to improve accessibility throughout our city as a whole for all users. And those plans were developed uh sometimes over months or years with a an input from a broad range of people or elected officials, design professionals, commissions, community members, and together as a whole for the entire city, they came up with these plans to develop this vision that we want to see our our city achieve in the future. So developing a network like this, like a pedestrian network or a bicycle network, can only happen incrementally. And this is one of those increments. The the network doesn't work if there's missing pieces or only a patchwork based on the neighborhood or the street. Um it only works as a a full developed network. You're going to get push back um and you you you do get push back on all reconstruction projects. I I've I've seen it for a few years that I've watched now. And I hope that you'll wait the resident's feedback. I think that's important. But I also hope that you'll wait the work that went into developing those plans with the vision of the city in the future that we all agreed upon and that these plans were developed um looking towards and I hope you wait that appropriately as well. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks for being thanks for your patience and thanks for your testimony. >> I have no other callers. Okay. >> But it was an exciting moment. >> Okay. Uh questions for staff the testimony >> rer when we are doing our analysis do we actually go out into the neighborhoods and walk the streets and if so how much time do does staff spend on site? >> Yes member is thank you for your question. Yes. In addition to the topographic survey that we do and reviewing that, we do go on site and and review uh the topography and driveways and steepness and trees and other infrastructure impacts in these project areas. That's pretty consistent with all of our roadway reconstruction projects. >> And when you do that, do you meet with neighbors? >> Um if oftentimes we get requests to come out and review stuff. Um so we would meet with them on these projects. Uh if we have something very unique, we might send a letter and and re reach out and want to talk about something specific if it's out of the ordinary. U and then sometimes residents see us on site and they just kind of flag us down and we talk about them and that. So that's kind of a little bit of the summary of how those interactions occur. Okay. Is there any kind of because I um have been talking with somebody who is well this is a while ago so I'm not totally sure I need to check it again but with Minnetonka just a very um methodical plan where you have to go out and really look at the site and for me and the reason why I'm asking is admittedly when I saw the petition um I kind of just went uh really um because I had the experience I live close to Valley View. And when we moved in, there were no sidewalks. And the story was that one person didn't want the sidewalk on their side, another person didn't want it on the other side. So, no sidewalks went in. But when I went to the site to the neighborhood and walked it, it just was so transformative because it really does feel like it is this very special place where you've got all these activities that are dependent on the status quo. Maybe, you know, it's possible they could continue, but just the idea of putting in sidewalks, especially at this juncture where we've got other neighborhoods that are saying, "Give us sidewalks," and we're saying, "We can't." Um, I I am having a really hard time understanding this particular situation. So, I I wanted to ask that and I guess maybe between now and when we're voting on it, if we could get information on the process for the bike um and the that went into creating the bike and pedestrian plan um if that also involved going and visiting because you're this neighborhood is very unusual. So, there is I mean in a in a really good hilly slloy kind of way. Um, so there's that. And so any anyway, I do appreciate both what the caller just said and wanting to understand that a little bit more, but also what all the neighbors have said. And I not that this really matters, but I grew up playing kickball in the street as well, so I hear that. Thank you. >> Member Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So I've got two questions. One is this isn't the only neighborhood that has yard crews and trucks. And so what has our experience been in the more narrow streets with getting around um these larger trucks and with fire trucks trying to get through and and the safety standards of those? >> Yep. Good question, Mayor. Member Jackson. Uh just to first off um these are the standards that we've been implemented historically. So each of these local streets with sidewalks are 24 ft. So this would not be the first one with that uh those dimensions. So and those those neighborhoods have of maintenance vehicles for lawn and etc. on those larger uh trucks and things. And it's true, it gets busy and so does um you know building properties, you know, redevelopment of properties, it gets busy on the roads. Um you've got to share the road, right? So there's a truck sitting there and two cars are coming and maybe it's a little tight. you have to share the road, you know, and you stop and wait for somebody to go by and then when that person's by, you continue forward. Um, and we don't necessarily consider that to be a bad thing. Uh, generally it's a traffic calming. I know this area has got some windy streets, so uh, the traffic calming may not totally apply in this particular neighborhood, but that's kind of a little bit of a summary. Does that answer your question? It does. And it leads to my second question and that's curving streets. Um these these are curvy streets and they're on the hill and you know we walked it. People are walking their dogs and hear the stories of the Nordic skiers and everything. Um, when we were talking about sort of the long-term, um, when we met with the transportation commission, I I think I raised this, but what is the effect on narrowing a street when it's a curving street? What how does that um change the safety of the street? >> Um, let's see. Um, Andrew, you want to chime in, too? Um, so trying to think of some examples. Um >> I would say typically then yeah I'll jump in first. I'll just add to that last question. The fire department is part of the review. They were part of the development of every street standard. There's not been an issue with the street whisks that have been implemented since 2008 which that gentleman was part of on Casco Avenue. Um narrowing streets and curves. people. Again, typically you narrow streets and if you have to make a maneuver around a curve, you're going to slow down and it's kind of a traffic calming another traffic calming measure. So, we haven't seen issues with curvy streets and streets to our design standards. And maybe Andrew has some additional feedback on that question for you. I I'll just say in in my experience, having that curb on those uh having the the curb and gutter on the curvier, windy streets uh provides more of a benefit than curb on a on a straight section. Um comparing say 58th Street, for example, that did not used to have curbon gutter, but it's just a straight shot between Wooddale and Xerxes. Um the having the curb and gutter um introduces an element that we call edge friction. Uh where it creates this this obstacle creates a vertical element that vehicles suddenly become conscious of and aware of while they're driving and it it gives them a reason to slow down as they're navigating through those curvier streets >> and narrowing it. um that you talked about the curb, but what about narrowing the street and the curves? >> Narrowing it uh again also in our experience generally encourages slower vehicle speeds um because in in um you know there's generally no no impact to the volume of vehicles. So the same number of vehicles going but they have a a less space to to make that to travel in. Um, so because of that, like Erin mentioned, there are going to be occasions where because there's a vehicle parked or because there's a large vehicle maybe making a turn that uh two approaching vehicles, one may have to stop or slow down for the other one to pass. And that overall reduces speeds of vehicles throughout the neighborhood, >> which I would say is happening today. When you look at those existing street widths of 27 to 29 ft, if a garbage truck or a bus is making one of those curves, you got to wait already as a passenger vehicle for vehicles. If it's a trailered thing, you're waiting already. So, I don't see much difference in what we're designing than what's happening out there today to be neighborly with other cars on the street. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mayor. May I just >> No, no, sir. Well, no. Sorry. The public >> incorrect about the street with ask that staff follow up on that. >> Um, all right. >> It is 31 ft back to back. The the driving uh area I think is 27 and a half. What today? [clears throat] >> Council member Ragno. >> Thank you. Um, so I I did also walk this area and I'm curious um when you were doing all of the analysis and I'm sure spend a lot of time in this neighborhood um evaluating the current state um did you look at the other street um just further um east for the sidewalk and and if so why was that ruled out as an option? Lam. >> Yeah. >> Uh we we didn't look at LAM. Again, we started off with the recommendation that's in the P and Bike Master plan, which is the route that we're currently proposing, Shannon to Chemrich to Fleetwood to Lam. Um when looking at the um the connecting points through the neighborhood, basically 70th Street to Dewey Hill, that route is the shortest, most direct route between the neighborhood. Um, so it's in the plan as that route because it is the most direct route. Um, and we're recommending it because it's the shortest distance. It's um, and it's also because it's the shortest distance, it's less amount of sidewalk to construct. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, I also want to ask about the retaining walls in particular. Um, if we didn't have a sidewalk, would retaining walls still be needed as a part of this overall project? >> Uh, that's a good question, Member Agnu. We, again, we've only done a 30% preliminary design of what we've proposed. Um, if I had to take a guess, there still might be some retaining walls, but it would it would definitely be less. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, and then you might not know this, so I'm going to ask the question, but I'll follow up with you afterwards, assuming no one has this data point in their head. Um, 58th Street, and you brought it up because I that was before my time on the council, but I walk it every day, and I know there are some very street steep inclines on the sidewalk. Do we know by chance like what percent grade those are in maybe in comparison to what we would be looking at for this project? >> I don't know right now, but if you give me five minutes, I could look it up. >> Oh my gosh. If you have it even with five minutes, that's awesome. >> I think it's about 9% today. Just off the top of my head, I'm fairly confident somewhere close to that. >> And I'll speak to the >> Aaron said 9%. And then that street's actually 20 feet wide curb to curb. So that's even narrower than what we're proposing here um in functions. And then typically with sidewalks, you follow the slope of the street. So there was some comments about 5% 7% not meeting ADA. Think of Still Water. All those streets are up slopes and they got way steeper slopes with sidewalks. So typical practice and guidance is you follow the slope of the existing street with sidewalks. And then in the building code when you enter buildings, that's where you got to meet those minimum slopes or a school building or something along those lines. So, just clarifying those slope comments from earlier. >> Okay. And I want to build off of that. Um, [clears throat] we wouldn't have a sidewalk be more steep than the street, right? I get the concern about it wouldn't potentially be as it might be more slippery on the sidewalk. Um, but it would be the same grade as the street. Correct. >> We typically follow the slope of the street. >> Okay. >> There might be slight variations to protect a tree or some of those comments we heard earlier. Yep. Okay. Did you find it really that clear? >> I did find it. Um, the steepest section of 58th is between Oaklan and Brookview Avenue and it's 12.3%. >> Okay. Thank you. That's super helpful. >> I looked at the section. >> Um, and then I guess my I think I think that'll be it for now. Thank you. >> Okay. Yeah. Think think about it. I got a few things to go over here. So, um, when we're on the on the on the level, which is most parts of Vidina, uh, our standard, remind me, our standard new, uh, roadway width as we've been redoing streets, is it 27? >> Correct. >> 27 >> without sidewalks. >> Without the sidewalk, >> a few cases where we did add a sidewalk in that case. >> Okay. >> And then with sidewalks, we've been using 24 feet face of curb to face of curb. >> And what's the existing width of LAM? I can take that, Mr. Mayor. So, all the streets that are proposed to or or lam you said, sorry, uh the average is 28 ft for those from face to face >> face to face. 28 ft. >> Yes, >> I think it's 31 ft back to back and I think it's 27 and a half is the driving the driving lanes there. >> Yeah, there's a little >> width driving. >> Correct. There's a little variation as it changes throughout the linear feet of the road, but yes. >> Is there 27 feet curb to curb? >> Yes. >> Or is that the driving lane? >> That's curb to curb. >> Curb to curb. And so remind me then curb to curb on lam. I'm trying to get I don't want apples and oranges here. I want comparatives. >> So yes, Mr. Mayor. So the the roadway width would be reduced by approximately half to 1 ft from face to face. >> So Atlanta right now is 28 ft curb to curb >> roughly 27. >> How about Fleetwood? >> Fleetwood. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Fleetwood, Mr. Mayor, is uh 27 1/2 ft face to face. >> Okay. Chemrich. >> Chemrich is all all streets that have proposed sidewalk are 27 and a half feet face to face. >> Okay. And then what what about when we get up into um uh down road and Lee Valley Road and >> Yeah. So >> Shamrock. >> So downro varies >> or Shannon I mean. >> Okay. >> Go ahead. >> Yes. Sorry. So downro varies quite a bit. Um, we've observed 26 to 30 feet. It changes throughout the linear feet of the road. Um, and then you said Shannon, I believe. >> Yeah, Shannon. And then there's also the connector there. >> Yeah. [snorts] So, it looks like Shannon is 27 1/2 ft face of curb to face of curb. >> Uh, leave alley. Lee Valley Road varies from 28 to 30 feet. >> And your goal here is to standardize all those road widths at 27 face to face. >> Uh that's correct for streets that do not have sidewalk other than Kerry Road. Kerry Road has some difficulties there. So that one is proposed to be 24 ft from face to face. Okay. So if we go back now and do we have traffic volumes on um existing traffic volumes on Lam all these streets? I mean one one of the streets we had was I think it was Fleetwood. Fleetwood was 300 a day. Somebody provided that information. I think at least that number stuck in my head at 300 a day. >> That's that's correct, Mayor. So the uh most recent ADT we collected in this neighborhood was on Fleetwood Drive in 2024 and that was 291 vehicles per day. Um traffic volumes measured on Lanim um range from 539 to 577. Um Lee Valley uh 307 vehicles per day. Shannon 754 vehicles per day. Chemrich 378 vehicles per day. Okay. Okay, that's helpful. Um, Director Milner, you want to speak about I know that uh Mrs. Halbert raised the issue of uh geo we like those surmountable curbs, but one of the other things we haven't talked about is the water management with the benefit of bulkhead sidewalk or bulkwood bulkhead curb. You want to talk a little bit about the water management aspects of that? Yeah, they both manage water and direct it, but barrier curb does a better job of keeping it within the street limits because it's 6 in high and it drives into the concrete or the catch basins, you know, at the end of the streets or midblock, wherever those storm sewer systems are. But we think it's really beneficial to keep the snow plows within the street. It protects, like Aaron mentioned, the edge of the pavement. It creates a longer life to that pavement by having that with some type of curb on the edge. keeps in the sweep street sweeping vehicles when they do the street sweeping and then just all vehicles if they got lawn systems and all that you're seeing probably ruts in some of the grass and potential damage to sprinkler systems. So I've seen people that have surmountable typically call and ask to do barrier curb but once it's built we leave it through the life of that asset. >> Okay. Yeah, thanks for that. >> Can I can I jump in and add one thing on that on the curb too? So the barrier curb uh has a wider uh gutter area uh so it keeps it off the asphalt pavement roadway width. So the surmountable curb has a narrower gutter. So in theory there could be additional storm water on the asphalt pavement compared to the barrier curb gutter >> or in that joint right at the pavement concrete interface. So less water gets into that joint with a barrier curb >> which is a potential what life expectancy issue for the asphalt. >> There's more of the water getting in that joint over time freestyle cycles. >> Okay, I think I think that's all I had for staff questions right now. Um so the recommended action here is the same action that was recommended and approved on the prior matter and that was uh to close the in-person public hearing this evening and keep the online public uh input availability open until December 10 and then decide the matter on December 16, 2025. Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. >> Jackson moves. >> I second. >> Member Agnes seconds. The motion as stated. Uh any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say I. >> I. >> Opposed. Carried. Uh we will take this matter up uh on December 16th and we will keep it open for any supplemental written testimony you want to provide. Thanks everybody for coming in and um we'll make we'll be back on December 16th. Well, we've got one more matter in front of us and it involves, as I recall, four pieces of property on Parklon Court and um we have a graduate engineer in the department. Chris Moore is joining us and uh Erin Dissler is going to assist Mr. Moore on this presentation involving uh the proposed roadway reconstruction work on Park Lawn Court. Well, good evening, mayor, council members. My name is Chris Moore. I'm a graduate engineer here at the city, and I'll be presenting tonight on a Parkland Court neighborhood rotor reconstruction, otherwise known as proven number BA467. So, Parkland Court is in a southeast quadrant in the city. It's near France Avenue and near Fred Richards Park. It's made up of four property owners have been holding four multi-level apartment buildings, and they add up to 41.5 REUS. and the culde-sac is 325 ft long and is made of 1,221 square yards of pavement. The existing roadway conditions, so the Colossac Parkline Core was originally constructed in 1966 as a concrete street. The existing street width is 36 ft wide. And other than that, there has been any kind of major maintenance done. There's been some panels replaced over the years, but there has been any kind of major maintenance done in that whole lifespan. and the area is full of silty sand soils. The pavement condition index for the city of D as a whole is 78. As we mentioned earlier, the payment valuation is done every four years on the streets throughout the city and Parkland core is rated at 51. The neighborhood consists of several multimmoal facilities and there's existing SH use path on IML regional trail. So several hundred feet away. So Parkland Court is right here, this culde-sac, and the trail is just right adjacent to the north of it. The Namo Regional Trail provides regional connections to neighboring city of Minnitonka, Hopkins, and Richfield, and also provides connections to the northwest quadrant of the city. There also sidewalk on Parkland Avenue on the south and east side as it curves around and sidewalk on the west side adjacent to Fred Richard's Park. There also is a sidewalk on the north and south side of 76th Street connecting to France Avenue. There there is a bus service in serving the culde-sac. Metro Transit has a local bus route route six soon to be route 36 with the Eline opening. Uh there is a stop right at Parkline Court and Parkland Avenue as shown right here. This is the bus stop and there are additional stops within a half mile of of the project area. And also to note there is a clover ride bus service area which is a bus service that the city that we help coordinate with to help serve stores in the South neighborhood. Al proposed improvements for the roadway. So we're proposing a 5ft wide concrete sidewalk on the stem of the culde-sac. to the straight portion just right here and that'll be with the five foot boulevard. We're also proposing a 8 foot wide concrete sidewalk around the bulb of the culde-sac and that'll be on the back of curb. Now we're doing this 8 foot wide concrete sidewalk on the back of curb because we've been working with the fire department. They requested a 96 foot wide culde-sac and to properly serve like it fit the sidewalk with the roadway within the rideway constraints we put on the back of curb. It's going to be more surmountable surface so a lot of truck can get there and help turn around that culde-sac and properly serve the apartment buildings. Now, we're adding sidewalk to this culde-sac because this um it's a area of high need. So, um there's a lot of black indigenous people of color in the culde-sac and there's apartment buildings, higher percentage of poverty, higher percentage of people under the age of 18. And it is also consist of the climate pan climate action plan goal to accelerate building infrastructure in areas of high needs and to serve these underserved populations. So parkland code the typical sections so existing as I mentioned earlier is 36 ft wide with two-sided parking and we're proposing a 27 foot wide road saw on the stem of the culdeac that I mentioned earlier. Now, this is different than our city's standard of 24 feet wide. And we're making a 27 because of the higher density of the area. With a lot of local traffic coming in and out in a such a small area, it makes more sense to put a 27 foot wide world road and kind of make a little bit wider for all the moving trucks coming in and out of those apartment buildings as well. Now, we there we are proposing one-sided parking. So that is a change from the existing of the two-sided but and no parking in the culde-sac to kind of properly serve that turn around for ladder trucks for the fire department to turn around that culde-sac. Now each of the four apartment buildings do have their own private parking lot. So that is something that's to of note. So we are concerned about any kind of taking away parking because they still have those lots to serve them. And as I mentioned earlier, we are having a 5ft wide sidewalk on the stem on both sides. And it's going to be a 5ft boulevard and then the 8ft sidewalk around the bowl with the culdeac that was going to have no boulevard. The estimated project costs. So these are all the costs for the project. Uh the roadway cost is 77,850. That's specially assessed. And a special assessment also includes the lighting assessment of $17,600. We're assessing the lighting here because we're going to replace the lighting because it's really old age and they're in poor condition and the city own lights today and we have no current funding to replace them at all. So, we assess them and the residents do get a market benefit for having new street lights because more well lit, helps reduce crime and easier to kind of see at night when you're driving around. And 113,700 is also going to be um coming from property taxes. So the total roadway cost is going to be $29,150. And the utility funds is going to be funded with the city utility. Um so that's going to be $195,400 for all the utility improvements. That includes replacing water services, water valves, sewer lining, and any kind of storm sewer improvements. And please note that the $95,400 for the storm sewer that includes the curb and gutter and the driveway aprons and the pack fund. So, for that sidewalk that I mentioned, um, it's going to be $57,900 for all those sidewalks improvements. And the total estimated cost is $462,000, $450. And that includes engineering, clerical, co finance cost, and contingencies. So, we hope those costs will go down once we bid it out and construction has completed. So, the estimated royalty assessments. So amongst the four property owners is 41.5 RUS as I mentioned earlier. Uh so each of the apartment units is 0.5 RUS as you see in this map each of the buildings have different colors because they have different number of apartment units and I know one of the properties right here uh that's a it's a corner property they're already assessed back in 2017 the Parkland Avenue reconstruction project. So there'll be 0.25 25 RUS for every apartment unit. And the total assessment roadway cost, the 95,450 that I mentioned, and you divide that by the 41.5 RUS, you get $2,300 the $2,300 per RU or to kind of simplify and make it easier to understand, it's going to be 1,3750 per apartment unit. And that number includes the $192 per apartment unit for street lighting assessment. So, so as Aaron mentioned, we worked with that appraisal firm to do a market benefit analysis to see how much of a market benefit these properties could receive after reconstruction. And the firm determined that they can see a average price benefit of $3 to $5,000 per apartment unit. And our preliminary assessment of $1,3750 per apartment unit is lower than an estimated market benefit estimate. So that makes our assessment valid. And please note that before the policy change of 2021, it would have been $2,273. So as a reminder, to approve any kind of pedestrian bicycle improvements requires a minimum of three out of five council votes in favor to pass. We believe this project is feasible, cost effective, and necessary to improve the public infrastructure. and we ask for a motion to close public hearing at noon December 10th and to continue action on the item to the December 16th city council meeting. Thank you for your time and let me present today. I know it's kind of a short and sweet project. It's just one little culde-sac. Um thank you so much and I'm here to answer any questions you may have. >> Yeah, thanks Mr. Moore. Let's uh Council Member Agnu, please. >> Thank you so much. Great job tonight. Um, so I'm helping hoping you can help educate me a little bit. Every other one that we've looked at tonight has been for houses or condos and town homes. >> Um, so for apartments and all four of those are apartments, correct? >> Correct. Yeah, >> maybe go back to that slide that shows the color differentiations on the There you go. >> Thank you. How does it work with apartments? Like how do the charters get passed down? Does it just go to the apartment owner? Do they get passed down to the the renters? Do you know policy-wise like what tends to happen? >> Yeah. So, policy wise, so um the owners do get assessed. So, we send an assessment to the owners. It's kind of up to them. I mean, sometimes they could pass it down to the renters. I mean, it's kind of out of our control what they do. So, yeah, we we assess the owners for the assessments. >> Thank you. Do we have any information of like what historically happens or do we just not have visibility to that? >> Um, good question, Member Agnu. I'm remembering off the top of my head 2021 Melody Lake had an apartment building there. I know that the building owner said that they intended to raise rent, but we never heard firmly that they did or what that amount was. So, it's kind of hearsay for the most part. Um I don't unless Director Milner has any firm data of anything. I'm not >> not on that one, but the Morning Side had apartments on France and we knew those were individual owners. So each one of those specifically got an assessment if there was unique PIDs. In this case, these are one P. So it's just going to go to whoever's listed as the property owner. They decide how to either take it out of their funds that they collect for maintenance or they would push that to each unit. So we do not know. >> Okay. Man, manager Neil has a >> All of that I I understand and but we don't we really don't have a good mechanism to to have visibility to actual rental rate changes. Um we just don't have that in our city. >> Yeah. And I think that that's fair and I don't I don't even know what that would look like or how we would do that. I'm also conscious of I think some of the the data points you were given earlier about equity within this area and just wanting to be really conscious of um the people that might be impacted. So that's where my questions were based off. But I I don't have a potential alternative solution either. Um but that was what I was thinking about. >> And just remember there is a opportunity for the owner to spread that out over 15 years if they so choose. So there's that avenue we've created and extended in the mayor's time uh from 10 years to 15 years for people to pay that off more long-term. >> Thank you Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So again, I'm a little puzzled. Why just Parklon Court? I mean, I get they need the sidewalks, the streets in terrible condition, but Parklon Avenue and West 76th, are they MSA streets? Why are we not doing this as a overall unit? >> Yeah, so thank you for the question, Council Member Jackson. Um, so Puckler Avenue was reconstructed in 2017, so not that long ago. So that was recently done. It is a state street and then 76 Street is also a state street. So it's kind of that same theme of state streets is kind of like really we're behind on >> Well, and then we have these little outliers. They can't always be night nice neat little boundaries. This is an outlier that we felt was time to do it and reconstructed and added into another project. So, we have other outliers you're going to see in future years. We've got some very little one-offs here and there just because they didn't fit neatly within some project limits. So, we need to also consider the infrastructure on these outliers from our neighborhoods and this is one of them. >> So, when we did this park lawn in 2017, this just didn't fit into the map. >> It was a different funding source, different we were partnering with Three Rivers at the time. It was also state aid just too many buckets and felt like it wasn't quite ready. We'll come back and do it like this as an outlier. >> Okay. Thank you, >> member. >> Uh my question was along the lines of what member Jackson just noted and I wonder if there's a way to sort of troubleshoot these um culde-sacs that are so short so that we don't end up with this kind of situation. I understand this sounds like it was a series of kind of unusual or a bunch of factors that were so strange, but it it really does seem odd to be doing this little bit. So, thank you. That's I don't know if you can add anything more, but it's kind >> I can just say as part of um as part of our proactive pavement management uh program, we do try to not get in a position where we're doing isolated culde-sacs like this at a time. Uh however, like Director Milner said, this project is in close proximity to the work on 72nd Street. So there could be an opportunity, even though they're two separate project areas and two separate assessments, there may be an opportunity to combine the scope of work uh within one contract um to still get that uh econ uh economics of scale. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. Um, but I I just think like how to troubleshoot so we don't end up in this kind of painted into a corner, if you will, situation. But thank you. >> You know, I've got some of the same concerns that member Agnu has. I think we all do. Uh, when you started your remarks, Mr. Moore, about who's going to benefit from this. Uh, and there are a lot of folks in there that um [snorts] are um a little bit more challenged economically and and um when you think about I'll just take 4435 for example. There's 18 units there. That's an $18,000 20,000 bill for the property owner. How's he going to try to recover that assessment and over what period of time? he might choose to recover it over 15 years. Uh but he also even and even though it's an improvement that's good for probably 80 years, you know, how is he going to amvertise that that cost? And you hate to see him advertise it on the cost of the on the backs of the people who are living there right now and say, "Oh, yeah. Oh, by the way, when you're when you're when your lease is renewed, uh we're raising your rent by 100 bucks a month." you know, so it's there's some nuance to this that's creates some sensitivities, I think, for all of us that makes you wonder is it is it worth doing if without knowing how these property owners are going to treat the people that live there in terms of raising or potentially raising their rent and and I and I get it. I mean he's it's a cost that they have to bear and they've got to pass that cost on but I wish that we had a mechanism in place where they had uh if there were certain criteria being met that and I'm just talking off the top of my head now that in a situation like this where you you you structured it in a way where they weren't putting that burden on whoever the existing tenants were all in one fell swoop. I don't know what to do about that. It's a market situation. Well, we'll decide in two weeks, I guess. Uh, let's uh open this up for public testimony. Is anybody here that wants to testify regarding this matter? Anybody online who wish to testify about this matter? >> I don't have anyone online, but because we just opened the hearing, I would recommend we wait about a minute giving people to call in since there is that brief delay in the broadcast. My clock shows that it's um 9:25. I'll come back to you at 9:26 or when I have a caller, whichever's first. >> Okay. Yep. Thanks for that. And thanks for getting that number back up on the screen again. >> This is a bad sign that one of the youngest people here is having can't take it. I mean, the wonder we're standing up. >> You know why it is? to fall. So, I tend to fall in [snorts] my right knee. >> Ouch. >> [snorts] >> I still don't have a caller, so I think it's safe for you to move forward with the agenda. >> Okay. Very good. Uh the motion for this one is suggested by staff. This matter is uh the same as what we've handled it with the prior uh two public hearing matters and that is a motion to close the in-person public hearing this evening and keep the online public input open until the end of business on December 10th and then take it up for decision on December 16th, 2025 at that city council meeting. Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. I second. >> Jackson moves. Member Haggner second. The motion is stated. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated, say I. I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. Uh, this matter will remain open for input uh on a written basis or they can call in and leave messages until the end of business on December 10th and we'll take it up for a decision on December 16th, 2025. Uh, manager comments. Anything? >> No comments tonight, sir. >> All right. Council comments. Anybody? Member Richard? I'm just kind of throwing it open to >> Y. Okay. Um on Friday we received the um 2026 state legislative platform and federal legislative platforms and um we need to get comments in by this Thursday and then we will be making a decision on the 16th. And I went back and I tried to find information about this on better together and there wasn't anything but now there is. You can view the state legislative platform. I didn't push for the federal legislative platform, but that should probably be up there as well. If you go and you search legislative platform at the top, you will be taken to a page that'll show different platforms and you'll see the 2024 legislative platform. Um, we should probably list the 2025. My concern is in 2024, this information was posted on December 22nd. Uh people had a total of 19 days to read it and provide input. It was closed on January 11th. This year, um you've got six days. Okay? And I need to provide comments on Thursday. And so just to the public, please take a look at these documents. If you've got feedback, I would love to hear from you. Um, and so just trying to spread the word that this is important because what it does is it sets priorities for our lobbyists and how we want their energy to be used at the capital. And I do want to understand, you know, from the public what their feelings are on some of the items that we are thinking about promoting. I do want to thank staff for highlighting um in yellow things that are new that have changed from 2025. And if you click on the link um you go to the homepage and there's a seal of Edina and it says state legislative platform. And if you go there um you can look at the draft. You can also look at previous platforms. It says look here. That will take you to the minutes from January 7th. And what you need to do is scroll down to the consent agenda and it's item 21 that will take you if you're curious to see what the 2025 legislative agenda looked like. So anyway, um that's all I have for tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you, Member Jackson. anything for us? >> I just want to give a shout out to our Somali community here in Edina and in Minnesota. Um it's just unfair to be singled out. Um we're so grateful for all the wonderful friends, neighbors, co-workers who are out there and you're welcome in our state and I want to thank you, Mr. Mayor, for your um statement that you put together. I found that inspiring. But I want you to know that we stand in solidarity with you, >> member. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Tonight, thank you. >> I just got word this afternoon, it's going to be published in the script. So, it should be in there tomorrow. It's online now. I guess I got a call from a resident this afternoon that said, I didn't know it was in, but he said, "Thanks for doing that." So, >> I still think we should be contemplating. Has everybody seen that statement that was released by Eden Prairie? So, we've got a we've got an FAQ on on interacting with with federal agents with Homeland Security and ICE. And then I did this OpEd piece about our Somali neighbors. Uh, but if you look at what Eden Prairie did, it was a statement from the city that said we're supportive of our Somali neighbors. And I don't know if that's something we want to take up. You you you guys have talked about doing something in draft form that we could maybe look at at the next city council meeting. >> No, it was a it was a >> statement. >> I thought I sent that to both of you. press release from Eden Prairie >> that >> we did not issue a press release >> that talks about we support our Somali neighbors and our community and was a real it it was different from the statement what we've released dealing with homeland security. I view those as they're not really separate but they're for purposes of us I think we should we should be thinking as a council as a city of saying something in support member's got it up it looks like >> yeah But the Yeah, the statement was about >> ours was >> Yes. And then you had this the column about the Somali. >> I was thinking more of the one that Eden Prairie did that we should be >> Yeah. Um, if if folks like that idea, why don't we ask their staff to take a look at having something ready for us next Tuesday we can look at to see if we want to adopt it. I know we thought about a resolution, but maybe a statement that we could release as a council would be equally equally appropriate. So, I know I've had some calls from some of our Somali American residents wondering if we're going to do something and I think beyond the FAQ on the homeland security, we should be thinking about that. Um, the only other thing I had was I think Thursday night down at 50th and France is something they call luminary night. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I suppose it's the [snorts] the word luminary probably gives a little indication of what's going on down there. So, uh, I'm try to wander down there on Thursday night. And then we had the Eline dedication on, uh, Saturday the 6th down at Minneapolis Community College, uh, technical college on Henipin Avenue. And, uh, great turnout from public transit advocates, um, and, uh, both US senators were there. So, it was, it was pretty amazing, uh, that way. So, uh, it went down the hierarchy, you know, feds first, then the state, then the county, and the mayor was at the caboose end of the speaking. So, [laughter] it was hard to think of something original to say about ABRT by the time they got to me. Anyway, uh, it was a good it was a good event and we had good turnout from our staff there. We had, uh, Andrew, what do we have? Four people there from from the city. >> Well, let's see. We had uh we had myself, we had Matthew Gabin, sustainability. Um we had Megan, our green core member. Um >> and then Andy, >> we had Andy Lewis from the transportation commission as well. We also had um representatives from commuter services there as well. >> Wow, that was it. Okay, that's what I was thinking for with plus Andy. Yeah, it was a good turnout and we got some photos taken. I think my wife used her camera, didn't she? So, I got to get >> I was going to ask you something sent to you. I'll get something something sent or to Jennifer so we can uh show it maybe at the next council meeting. Uh that's all I had. Um I think other other things are coming up soon. I think um we did the monora lighting down there already. Commissioner Heather Heather Eden had that arranged when we did that with the holiday tree. Uh and I think we've got something coming up with EAA down there too as well. The Asian-American Alliance. Oh, okay. That's it for me. Any anybody have anything else that cause them to think of? >> All right. Um, is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. I second. >> Member Jackson moves. Member Agnu seconds a motion to adjourn the special meeting of the city council this Monday, December 8th, 2025 at 9:34 p.m. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adjournment, say I. I. I. Opposed. Carried. We stand adjourned.