okay here we go well good evening everybody and welcome to the Adina city council meeting for Tuesday June 4th 20124 it is 7:03 p.m. and um just a reminder as a followup to a direct Dr benro had to say uh there are folks watching this meeting virtually uh We've encouraged that during Co and postco uh in this post-pandemic environment we're allowing folks to participate remotely uh sometimes they have two opportunities to uh participate remotely uh Community comment they always have that opportunity and when we have a public hearing like we do tonight uh folks can participate remotely or live for that type of situation as well for a public hearing uh but remember remember that um um and during Community comment you cannot comment on something that's otherwise on the agenda this evening or scheduled for a future public hearing folks are uh that are in the virtual world there's your contact information that you should uh use whether you're watching on cable TV or 9 am.gov live meetings or on Facebook uh there's the way you get to our operators and the operator bring in the direct director benat who will bring you into the council for your comments and so having provided the information I'm going to call the meeting to order and ask our clerk Sharon Allison to call the role clerk Allison actually deput city clerk excuse me I didn't look down there it's okay no worries so sorry council member agnu here we were just with her upstairs and I just assumed she was down here too thank you it's all good council member Jackson here council member Pierce here council member Risser here mayor huffland here so I better work on my aware situational awareness a little bit better I guess um all right next is the Pledge of Allegiance folks alance to of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all we have published uh for the council and for our residents a form of meeting agenda for the meeting this evening is there anyone on the council or from the staff standpoints that wishes to modify the meeting agenda in any former fashion is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda is published so moved second member Jackson moves member Pier second the adoption of the meeting agenda is published any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the meeting agenda is published say I I I opposed carried the meeting agenda is adopted uh now we are at Community comment and so um we'll first go to uh some of our fellow residents that are in the audience that wish to address the Council on matters of concern to them and then we'll give Folks at home a chance to kind of gear up and get ready to call in if they haven't called in already on community comments so let's um go to the folks in the audience is there anyone that wishes to address the Council on a matter of concerned to them it's not on the agenda or scheduled for a future public hearing yes welcome good evening my name is Ralph siker I live at 4311 Cornelia Circle residents of ad tonight uh during the work session there was a review of Mr Scott Neil's performance objectives for 2024 the agenda was changed so that that did not start until 6:18 uh this evening that conversation adjourned at 650 uh this evening would I'd like to call your question to your attention is that you actually listen to that conversation and one thing of of particular note is that on two separate occasions January and March of this year four specific performance objectives were addressed to be included in Mr Neil's objectives and the memo that he shared for that in in preparation for that meeting included none of those nor was there a specific discussion of those individual goals that were laid out I find this disturbing uh and and I I recommend highly recommend that you listen to that work session thank you thank you Mr ziger anyone else good evening good evening Council and mayor hoveland my name is Ryan green and I'm a resident at 4904 East Sunny Slope Road uh just across the street and I'm here just to uh real quick put in a plea that you guys put some extra effort into the uh pedestrian RightWay or pedestrian walkways along 50th specifically between uh brale or Wooddale Park and Highway 100 I've got a small army of children uh we go to OGG for uh both mass and for school and watching my kids make that Trek from East Sunny Slope over to OLG is uh stressful to say the least so that's my first request and then my second um and I'd be remiss not to point out that Chad Milner has been very responsive to my requests uh for help um but right now we've got some utility construction along that same path and we've had uh the sidewalks blocked by construction what are they construction barrels barrels yeah right and so I've done my best to try and get those moved and they have been moved uh it would be nice if on this the rest of this project and future projects if contractors could provide an alternate right of away for pedestrians yeah good thoughts I thought your email was uh apprec your email was appreciated so thank you thank you thank you Council anyone else in the audience wish to address the Council on a matter of concern to them all right uh director benro anybody online okay all right our practice is that uh with respect to these comments that have been made uh under concerns of residents we'll answer them by Friday on the city website and then our city manager follows up with respect to the comments that were made at the prior meeting in this case what would have been about two weeks ago uh and with respect to anything that took place there that need needed a response and and uh he'll supplement the Friday response with an oral response this evening so I'll turn not to manager Neil uh thank you Mr Mayor members of council uh two questions from our previous meeting first was when do drinking fountains open at at outdoor Parks how often are they cleaned uh the city's Park maintenance Park maintenance division uh strives to have drinking Waters fountains in Parks active around Memorial Day uh before that they're subject to risk of freezing and and destruction so Memorial Day is when we try to turn things on uh maybe the week of Memorial Day occasionally individual sites can no longer uh depend can't do that depending on challenges uh encountered during the process they may have broke during the winter uh drinking fountains are cleaned when they're open and have regular checks on them throughout uh the season uh and people can use the din 311 app to report issues with drinking fountains or any other Park problem second question was why are the closed signs gone from the Grand View Bridge uh there are six closed signs Al learning pedestrians that the Grand View bridge is closed not yet open yet uh recently someone unhooked the change holding up two of those signs and City staff have reconnected the chains and will reinforce them so they are not easily unhooked that's what I have I think one other question was as I recall it may have been redundant to the meeting before was about flags at half staff how do we make when when the governor decides we're going to go to half staff on a flag uh situation um because of an event that's occurred or the death of an individual um how do we go about determining when we're going to move our flags to have staff in the city so uh yes we did we answered that question at the last council meeting uh on our Pro we have a protocol about how we respond first of all we respond whenever when we receive a a notice from the governor's office which is how they how they distribute that information that information goes directly to Jennifer benat Jennifer benat spreads that information out to all of the different facilities uh who have Flags giving them not only the direction uh but also the reason of a something that they can print off and tape to their window because we often get questions about why flags are lowered one thing we have not done in the past is on facilities where we do not have uh 247 or or 24 or 7 days a week um uh staffed uh we have not been bringing people in on overtime just to come in and lower the flag uh we are cons reconsidering that however and looking at ways we can better use the staff that we have already that are here 24/7 and and during the weekends and with the hope of of changing our policy and and having the flag up and down at the time we get that notice all right thanks for that yes m u thank you I think we had also received a question about um again about the tree ordinance um so I think maybe just a comment to that is that we have that on our agenda tonight and we'll be talking about that but I do remember a community comment about that again last last week we we do uh sometimes I mean part of what we take care to do in in this setting is respond to questions if people have um uh statements they're wanting to make about how they wish things could be or not be we don't generally provide a an answer to that in the same way um but in this case uh yes we did have some question or questions I think about the tree ordinance uh staff worked uh on the tree ordinance and and have a have an an ordinance in front of the the council tonight uh that you I think it's the last thing on your agenda later tonight good any other questions from Council Members all right very good let's move on to the next portion of the agenda and that's the adoption of the consent agenda uh I think there were a couple of members that were interested in removing 6C uh resolution 202 24-37 which provided for the sale of some general obligation bonds um so with resp is there any other item that any council member wishes to remove from the consent agenda or a staff member other than 6C all right with the exception of 6C is there a motion to adopt the items on the consent agenda in a single motion so moved second Jackson moves member Pierce second the adoption of all of the items on the consent agenda in single motion with the exception of item 6C all any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the motion to stated say I I I opposed carried uh we have a An approved number of items on the consent agenda and all has turned back to um resolution 202 24-37 which provides for the sale of up to $2,730 th000 in general obligation bonds and I'll go first to member rer thank you and my concern was just uh wanting to have a little bit more clarity on the 5.4 million uh that would be going to the Eden Wilson Redevelopment Tiff um projects yes thank you council member for your question um who I here have here tonight with me is Nick uh an Hut from Ellers he's our Municipal adviser for the city of Edina so I'll call him up to help answer that question thank you uh mayor council Nick anut with Ellers and Associates some financial advisor to the city of Edina and helping with this uh Bond issuance um the when the council approved establishing the Eden Wilson uh TI district there were a number of public improvements that were going to enhance the roadways and walkways surrounding the Tiff District itself which is the uh the building outside the front of this city hall the mson green project so 5.4 million of the amount that's anticipated for this year's bonds are going to be backed by the revenues derived from that project and that Tiff fund and they're going to go towards paying for those roadway Traffic Safety enhancements uh specifically 2 million is going to go towards reimbursing last year's construction expenses that were incurred for the roundabouts that were installed outside of that project and then 3.2 million of that amount is going to fund this year's projects that have already been awarded for the gra to the east of Dale improvements that are happening so the contracts and the work um is underway and these bonds are going to provide a permanent source source of funding for those and they are going to be paid entirely from the revenues that are produced from the Eden Wilson Tiff district from the Maison green project member rer thank you one of the things that I've been thinking about and I'm learning about Tiff so as we go um there's interest that will be acred and a more expense just in terms of the whole process true or is that well when we pay back Bond we do have an interest rate on that so we need to repay that interest okay and I I have looked online looked at information from the state which talks about calculating Tiff and Tiff districts and all of that and what you look for in order to assure yourself that you're going to come out ahead do interest costs ever factor into those calculations uh we we do actually so when the council was presented with establishing the Tiff District it established a budget for that fund what it could use that for the types of project um inside of that there was an allocation made towards interest expense so there was a forecast based on potential future interest that could be depending on the type of financing that's engaged um we anticipate that these bonds are going to ACR interest somewhere in between four to 5% we won't know that until we get the bids back in July um but that is in excess of what was estimated within the original budgets for the Tiff fund thank you any other questions from Mr an Hut all right m r you want to move the matter I just oh yes uh no no question but um just a comment I um I do think that just the way that this has happened I think it's worth just highlighting we had a resident uh believe it was rich green uh talk about pedestrian Pathways right right outside here in front of Sunny Slope um and when we talked about uh when we approved the Mason green project we had a discussion about well what other public realm benefits could we make um there were several residents from Sunny Slope that were concerned about um pedestrian traffic um concerned about how difficult it is to get out of their neighborhood and turn left or right um and we uh discuss how we could leverage those Tiff dollars to address some of those issues um and so I do think it's just it's this is a neat opportunity to be able to say um this is kind of Full Circle how in this particular instance the process worked we approved this project we were able to leverage these uh these Tiff dollars we extend expanded the district a little bit in order to do this um and we're at a point now where we've done um I'll roughly say half the projects and then we have the other group now to do um and I just think it's a neat way to to to highlight how we've been able to to use those dollars to address those issues thank you member Pierce all right member rard would you care to move the adoption of resolution 20243 so move there a second second member rer moves member Jackson seconds the adoption of resolution 20 24-37 that authorizes authorizes a sale of up to $ 32,702 4-37 is adopted thank you for being here both of you um all right now we here uh in the uh next portion of the agenda is the special recognitions and presentations portion of the agenda we have one item in this portion of the agenda and folks uh in our community may have been hearing a bit about the uh proposed metr Transit Eline uh bus Rapid Transit expansion of their system uh and it uh in in that system it moves alphabetically ABCD so all those other four lines have already been built and are prospering and uh tonight we have Adam Smith here the manager of Metro transits brt projects uh with us and I think Eric Thompson maybe back there as well yes he's back there as well uh and we've been engaging with them in active meetings down at 50th in France as we think about uh how to get through the construction of this uh project and so I think for our residents and our our Merchants they're particularly appreciative that you're here this evening uh we're getting it from you and working with you firsthand and trying to compress that construction schedule so that we provide the least amount of impact possible uh and I know you're cognizant of that as well so uh thanks for being here Mr Smith and look forward to the presentation thank you Mr Mayor uh Council thank you for the opportunity to provide this update this evening on the Eline bus Rapid Transit project um my name is Adam Smith I'm manager of brt projects with Metro Transit and I am uh joined by Eric Thompson who's our lead uh community outreach coordinator for the Eline project um so I just wanted to give a little bit of an overview of the project as a whole this evening um and then delve into a little bit more specifics around what is being constructed in a Dina um talk about some of the Construction Construction detours phasing and timelines for the Eline uh business access during construction and um how we are communicating and will continue to communicate uh through throughout construction of the Eline project so first a little bit about the Eline Corridor it's about a 13m project uh running primarily along France Avenue henpen Avenue and University Avenue in Fourth Street uh it'll make 34 stops uh between Southdale Transit Center here in Adina and the Metro Green Line Westgate station which is uh just over the Minneapolis St border St Paul Border in St Paul um one of the things about the Eline is it's really focusing on strengthening some of the um connections between a lot of regional destinations so Southdale 50th in France Uptown Downtown Minneapolis and the University of Minnesota uh it represents the substantial replacement replacement of Route Six which is currently one of Metro transit's highest ridership local bus routes in our system and construction is occurring this year and next year uh toward an a launch of the e-line in late 2025 so a little bit of background about the arterial bus Rapid Transit program so this is a program that is designed to uh take you know these high- performing local bus routes and make them faster more reliable easier to use so one of the things it does one of the ways in which it does that is you know we have two to three stations per mile we have pre-boarding Fair payment for faster stops higher capacity buses and uh boarding through all doors um an important part is also these High-Tech high amenity secure stations uh throughout the corridor and then the service component the faster frequent and all day service so focusing a little bit more on what is being constructed so at an Eline station um we see a sort of a range of amenities shelters with heating and lighting benches bike racks signage with realtime transit information and then security features and additional Street Lighting in some uh situations the platforms themselves often create additional sidewalk space and metrotransit prioritizes snow clearance on brt platforms to help support walkability around station areas um along with this project we also have a number of improvements that we're making for safer and more accessible pedestrian Crossings at intersections along the corridor turning a little bit more specifically to Aina there are eight Eline stations that will be constructed in Adina some of them on the border between Minneapolis and Adina along France Avenue uh five of these intersections do include some of those safety and accessibility improvements funded by hennipin County uh seven of the eight uh stations are anticipated to be constructed this year in 2024 and we um are planning to have shelters with heating and lighting open for uh Route 6 customers in advance of this coming winter so even as we're waiting to complete the rest of the e-line we want to make those open to customers as soon as we can um construction at that eighth station a Southdale Transit Center uh is planned to occur next year as well some of those finishing touches installation of signage Fair collection equipment um in the runup to the service launch of the Eline in late 2025 so turning a little bit to France Avenue construction um we developed Construction staging plans during the design phase working extensively with our local agency partners including staff from the city of Adina and um one of the approaches is that construction at five uh France Avenue intersections will overlap so that they share a single southbound detour uh France Avenue will remain open to Northbound traffic throughout construction and that southbound detour will be on Xerxes uh really geared towards Regional traffic to help avoid confusion and provide continuous access um to and through the area uh I'll mention two that local access to both Northbound and southbound France will remain open between those station intersections so you know if you're somewhere between those intersections that you see and you're just looking to make a really short trip a couple of blocks you can still do that in the southbound Direction on France um and we also will be setting up temporary signals at 30 39th Street and 60th Street to help accommodate the detour in terms of the general construction approach that you can expect to see uh in general we're looking to start with the first phase at each intersection on the West Side construct the southbound station any sidewalk and curb ramp improvements occurring on the west side of the intersection and then once that's done flipping it so then focusing on the east side of the intersection each of those phases is anticipated to last about 5 to six weeks at each intersection um and so that will be um and here you can see just a photo of kind of what that looks like as a brt platform is being constructed so moving towards the our sort of tentative timeline in terms of construction here one thing I did want to start out by saying is just that any of the lane restrictions or detours that we're talking about uh will be lifted as work is completed at that intersection so one work is done at an intersection of course uh traffic will will return to to normal um we are beginning initial activities to set up temporary signals for next week uh which is when we expect that France Avenue detour to begin as well and then looking kind of more at the intersection by intersection uh basis France and 44th we're anticipating to begin the week of July 1st and there you can see sort of the plan detour around 40 or 444th Street in that area uh work at France and 47th scheduled to begin June 17th at 50th and France we're now looking at starting work there July 1st and during the first phase of construction at that location there will be a detour of 50th Street uh which you can see sort of map there and we have work now so that 50th Street will be reopened for the second phase of construction at that intersection uh France in 54th will be starting a little bit later in the summer mid to late July and then fron 58th will be beginning next week week of June 10th um also mention that uh work at a couple of other stations fron 62nd Street and Fairview southf hospital will begin later in this construction season so a little bit about supporting businesses during construction um really importantly pedestrian access to businesses will be maintained during construction uh vehicle access to parking ramps at 50th in France will also be maintained throughout construction um we're also looking at making traffic signal adjustments to help accommodate those detours and really keep vehicles moving to and through these areas so the overall theme is that businesses will remain open during construction and of course we really encourage folks to continue supporting their local businesses um we're working with the 50th in France Business Association around a couple of initiatives including some additional business access signage as well as highlighting um upcoming event and initiatives in some of our uh materials and finally just kind of how you can stay up to date uh during construction really the best way is going to be signing up for a Weekly Newsletter email at our website Metro transit.org Eline project um but we also have a project email address uh so you can reach Eric and his team there as well as a uh construction hotline and so and then Eric will be also sharing additional information through door knocking and posted materials as well as our general uh writer alerts through Metro Transit so that's what I had this evening but happy to take any questions that folks yeah thank you Mr Smith I just U I'd be remiss if I didn't introduce one of our met Council Representatives I see her in the background there I'm getting more situationally aware here um uh miss Cameron you want to come forward and just introduce yourself and then uh she's one of two reps that represent our city on the Metropolitan Council and is one of our residents yes that's right Mr Mayor thank you so much so my name is Angel MRA Cameron I represent District 8 on the Metropolitan Council that includes Adina uh St Louis Park Hopkins um and a number of suburbs north of there up to Brooklyn Center along the highway 100 169 Cor Corridor very happy to work with the Eline team on this project uh and they've done a phenomenal job so I think uh I will leave it to them to talk more about the elim project but we are very proud to bring more transportation to Adina and surrounding communities we work in close partnership with mayor havland and with the team are um in terms of the staff of the city of Adina to be able to carry these projects forward so I represent a lot of communities at the Metropolitan Council and AD is a phenomenal Community it has been recognized at the Metropolitan Council meetings for how well the city is doing in terms of leading the Metropolitan region so very proud to represent this community thank you yeah I think we're all really pleased with the uh the level of commitment that you have made to this position in the metropolitan Council and to our community as a as a resident you've been so highly effective and it's been a pleasure to have you at all these meetings as we kind of worry about how to get through this construction season 50s in France without uh without disturbing small businesses too much so uh council members questions for uh Mr Smith at all yes member U thank you and thank you so much for the presentation I think you know we've gotten some Outreach and this is really helpful to just understand what will the impact be um how can you know residents who want more information or anyone else um understand all all this that you presented the timelines what the detours will be and when we're expected to kind of get back to business as usual as well as our business is still open you know all those questions that residents might have yeah absolutely um again I think the very best way is to sign up for those Weekly Newsletter updates um at our website and um that is where some of those detour Graphics um sort of intersection by intersection updates about um what's happening in the week to come here's what we know here's what we don't know um you know as you probably know that construction can be can be very much um in flux as it's affected by weather we've had a very rainy season so far um but that is going to be the best way for folks to get those weekly updates um and really be able to to stay on top of things and then of course with more pointed questions or if they if folks see something out there that seems you know oh that's not right or you know we need to make sure we're um um maintaining that temporary pedestrian access in different places um again the email address and that construction hotline will be there too for some of those more specific questions and folks are always welcome um to email and call that as well awesome thank you is there any static website that folks could go to I know I'm in visioning myself being like Oh gosh is this the weekend or is it not and I forgot to sign up for the email updates how do I know how to get to my groomers sure yeah so the um the the Eline project has a construction um page and that includes a link to the most recent newsletter so um in case somebody doesn't um sign up or they you know deleted it or whatever it is they can get there and get that same information yep uh either Mr Smith or miss Cameron may want to come back up because I think for a lot of folks in the audience this evening or uh that may be watching don't really know about what what is brt and and why why are we expanding all of these brt lines uh and uh and talk a little bit about you know the level levels of writers ship that we've reached in the post-pandemic era uh because of the nature of that uh service yeah absolutely so one of the big things that we've learned as an agency is you know a shift away from kind of the 9to five commute centered trips to really sort of all day trips serving a wide array of different purposes so going to shopping you're going to appointments you're going to visit friends and one of the things that uh bus Rapid Transit projects really emphasize is having a frequent reliable schedule 7 days a week throughout the day and so that frequency has been um really successful on other projects some of them you mentioned cine dline has been really successful in seeing great ridership gains in those corridors and and a lot of that growth is coming at those you know midday times those weekend times and so um so this package of amenities this package of improvements that helps speed up the service make it more reliable make it more comfortable to use both when you're waiting when you're not waiting in a hail storm you're waiting under a nice shelter um you know those are the those are the kinds of things that are all contributing to make making these projects successful and um and we expect the Eline to follow suit good thanks Mr Smith anyone else okay thanks yeah member Jackson so if I'm going down to a link scheme can I take the brt there and get home if it runs into overtime yes absolutely so yeah um a lot of our brt lines often run till you know 1 1:30 maybe even two in the morning I'm not over up that late so I can't verify that but yeah the the um the service span is is very high on our brt lines terrific thank you good thanks for being here both of you and um I think Mr noor's here in the back too and he's been really active down at the 50th in France Association working with Metro Transit so um he'll probably see you Friday morning or some of your some of your team on Friday morning at the meeting all right very good thanks Mr Smith um that concludes that portion of the agenda we're going to go now to public hearings as I mentioned earlier we only have one public hearing matter and what we'll be doing uh this has been our practice during covid and postco is that we will'll take the presentations the staff presentation uh the applicants presentation uh public testimony but then we leave the public testimony portion of it open for a certain period of time post this evening and then we'll take it up at our next meeting so we won't make a decision tonight but we'll take a lot of information and tonight and that'll allow us then along with the information we get in the interim period to make a good well-informed decision a couple weeks from now and I'm going to turn now to our our director Teague our community development director and ask him to introduce the topic yes thank you mayor members of the council uh the uh public hearing this evening is for a preliminary rezoning overall development plan site plan and subdivision of the Macy's Furniture Store site at 7235 France Avenue a site that you're all familiar with the applicant has gone through the sketch plan process a couple of times over the last year it is guided in our comprehensive plan as a Comm Community Activity Center this is a area that the comprehensive plan envisions as our most uh densely developed area current zoning on the site is PCD 3 planned commercial District here's a look at the existing site you can see the underutilized parking lot large surface parking lot and the 90,000 square foot furniture store this is a look at the first sketch plan so the idea here hasn't changed all that significantly from the original sketch plan is to divide the site up into four building pads main feature of the project is to connect the prominade to France Avenue during the sketch plan the the council expressed interest in trying to connect this project with the project that's been approved to the West on the other side of France either with a um an underpass or overpass so the applicant revised their plans to accommodate either um going under or above this was the sketch plan that that the council reviewed earlier this year just to give a little update I spoke with um economic development manager neindorf this evening to get an update on how those discussions have been going with the county um they've had a couple of meetings uh Mr new andorf has been leading that up along with Mr Milner uh from staff um there's a decision Point coming in mid July but conversations are ongoing with the possibility of utilizing either of those two options so the applicant has made a number of revisions uh from those sketch plans that you uh took a look at to go through a few of them they've increased the setback from the prominade that was an issue that was raised the previous plans had just a 15 foot set back to the property line they've revised that to a 30 5 foot setb um they've added there's actually three restaurants more activation of that public space around the building um they've expressed interest in widening the 9 M Creek Trail that run the bike trail that runs along the South lot line from 10 to 15 ft of course that's subject to approval of the Watershed District they've shifted the 11 story building to the South that's the building along France Avenue um they've reduced the amount of office square footage added more uh residential use so in doing that in the Northwest building there's less parking uh parking levels have been reduced from four levels to one with that building uh they've enhanced the Landscaping added public art um the project will meet the city's sustainability buildings policy 5% of the parking stalls will have EV charging station with ability to um increase to 10% Rift toop solar panels would be installed on the two East buildings and 10% of all of the housing units within the project would be included um for affordable housing that includes they've also added an owner occupied um element to this project so five of the units within that building uh would be for affordable housing as well so here is a look at the proposal uh before the council again the the basic um elements are still in play the South the South and West parcel this is the 11 story building here this would include 48,000 Square ft of office 49 units of the senior um senior housing five of those would be for affordable uh there would be about a 10,000 ft retail and restaurant space on the main level the Northwest parcel this would be a sstory building about 20,000 Square ft of office 124 Apartments within that building and 8,000 square ft of retail and then the two Eastern Parcels those would be Apartments the the north would include 223 units and the South 76 there's they've also added this restaurant element on the corner I'll quickly move through some of the building renderings the applicant will go through this in much more detail and they have a 3D um fly around the project uh to so you'll get a better understanding and feel so I'll just quickly move through there this request uh requires a rezoning from that PCD 3 District to plann unit development the PUD would ensure that the affordable housing is included within the project and that the sustainabil policy is met um there's also a substantial amount of land that's dedicated to the public here 45% of the land area would be dedicated to the public um for the walking areas um the bike areas and the uh the vehicular traffic going north and south through the site um in exchange with the Pud they're requesting flexibility from those PC3 standards that would include Building height Building Material building transparency first floor ceiling height building setbacks uh setback from single family uh the nearest single family home floor area ratio and building coverage there's also a plat associated with this they're proposing to subdivide the property into three Parcels so just quick review of the site plan again the the ACT access points remain the same as they exist today so access to the site comes off of the along the South lot line and the north there would be a north south vehicular uh movement through the site you can see the entries into all four buildings come off this this middle spine in terms of um a a parking and traffic study was done by WSB um mallerie Fitzpatrick is with us this evening virtually to answer any questions that you may have in regard to parking and traffic but the study concluded that no um roadway improvements are needed uh with this project and that there is adequate parking each use itself each site um meets our code requirement for parking on its own overall there's about 200 spaces over what the code requires and the applicant will talk about this but the parking on the main level would be available to the public so if someone who wanted to use uh Centennial Lakes or go shopping at the Galleria could park within this within the uh public parking spaces that have been uh dedicated for that use in terms of landscaping based on the perimeter of the site 61 overstory trees would be required they're proposing to plant 142 11 existing trees would be saved and 39 removed there would be an add there would be 414 caliper Ines of trees planted here so we're getting um quite an increase in the the tree canopy compared to existing terms of building material they're proposing manufactured Stone um and metal plel and again the applicant will go through this in a little more detail they are asking for some flexibility um in building materials the brick and Stone element on the first 60 ft of the building is anywhere from 20 to 70% of the building itself the transparency requirement is between 60 and 75% we require 75 um but again they will be meeting the sustainable buildings policy for all four buildings so that does add quite quite an expense to the the project initially they were um proposing to divide the property into four sites they've revised the plat so it's now just three the two residential Apartments would be um on a a share a lot essentially Park dedication is required here they're changing from four to three doesn't impact Park dedication at all um $5,000 per unit would be required at the time of a building permit so this graphic indicates the flexibility that they're requesting through the Pud so on the far right the the Bold in in italics those are the setbacks that are not met using conv conventional zoning so they are meeting the 50 Foot set back along France um but setbacks are based on the height of the building so none of the side or rear setbacks are are met the setback to R1 property based on the height of the building and any building that's over nine stories needs to be set back six times the height so they need a 930 ft setback this building would be just under 800 ft and they're also proposing an 11 story building the building height overlay District allows up to eight stories and 96 ft the density here is within the the the density range allowed in the comprehensive plan there's asking for flexibility in the floor area ratio as well and the first floor Building height and the transparency that I mentioned the middle column here Compares recent PUD the 70th in France project so you can see the setbacks within that project are pretty similar to what's proposed in in that development that again was a site that was divided into four four um four Lots essentially that project has a 24 story structure where this just has 11 the f is similar at 2.1 with that project this is 2.2 so this graphic just demonstrates the setbacks uh from the property line just to give you an idea again 34 35 ft from the prominade 40 ft for the south building uh 49 ft set back to this rear the South property line 13 ft uh 65 ft uh for this building along France and then 50 ft the separation between buildings would be 60 ft uh through the site and I mentioned this is the nearest R1 property so this is where that 800 foot setback comes in uh for the 11 story building primary issue um to be considered here is the proposal reasonable to justify a PUD resoning for the site an argument can be made both for and against uh staff has provided the council with alternatives to consider for approval and denial this is our pyramid of discretion city has complete discretion uh with this resoning to approve or deny um but staff and the Planning Commission are recommending approval the Planning Commission recommendation was on a a 5 to one vote we do believe that the Pud criteria has been met um this project meets the overarching objective of the Sou D plan which is to maximize pedestrian activity throughout the district with the public realm as the connective tissue that gives the district its unique identity and sets a stage for future development uh for those who work live and play in the greater Southdale District um some of the key principles of the Southdale design guidelines are mat here again dividing the site into smaller Parcels um with the whole Project based around that public realm and as I mentioned 45% of the site would be dedicated to the public it would be maintained by the the the property owner but the city does have or residents do have access again it meets our sustainable buildings policy they're providing affordable housing and in looking at some of those give to get criteria again 58 affordable housing units uh the 45% for public space uh signic ific increase in pedestrian connections enhanced landscaping and the ability to provide that future uh safe pedestrian and bike connection over or under France Avenue so with that um as the mayor mentioned we're recommending that you close the in-person public hearing keep the public input open until uh June 9th and continue action to June 18th with that I can stand for questions and the development team is here to provide a little more detail to the all right let's let's first see if anyone in the council has a question for you as our community development director and then we'll go to the applicant presentation uh member Risser um I have a question about the traffic study and I'm looking at I think it's page one where it says the traffic impacts of the existing and anticipated site Redevelopment were evaluated and I'm wondering I can maybe offer a little feedback on that because I reviewed that question earlier today so they did consider the developments in the area we also consider future growth they're looking at our traffic model WSB as our entire city traffic model and for this specific project they used a yearly growth factor of 8% uh to look at those future forecasts so they do have those projects considered within that growth factor for this study so that was in the but was that in the actual traffic study I hear you're saying that it was in a different report it was in it's page seven of this traffic study it says background non-traffic growth and they mentioned the the developments the existing conditions and just Regional traffic growth and using a factor of 8% per year okay one of the um possibilities for the parcel across the street is a hotel that sounds like it's more of a vention style Hotel than a boutique it's going to if it goes forward we're talking a ballroom and all of that and I just I felt like I just want to make sure that the possible Peak traffic was addressed like scenarios and I I did not see the word Hotel yep sorry council member rer interrupt but that is not a project yet if that project comes forward they would have to update their traffic study for the hotel site and they would have to to consider this project with their analysis so that we might have other discussions at that point around traffic with all the projects but that one wasn't the hotel wasn't proposed at this point or approved um thank you and I I do have this would be our third Tiff District in this area correct I believe that's correct yes okay and I I have to wonder you know I've been asking myself and this would also be the very very first time we would have a developer succeed with a project where they have followed the Southdale design guidelines and they've put in a north south access road and an East West Access Road um true we've never had anybody successfully complete a project and and those guidelines went into effect back in 2008 they were part of our comprehensive plan 20 9 the guidelines were were adopted I believe they were part of the 2008 comprehensive plan as an appendix no they were that that that study started in 2015 and it took about three four years okay um one of my concerns with the way we approach this and I I looked at the material we have 3.57 acres in the public realm um and maybe we can go to the image where you're showing the sub divisions when you're calculating residential units per acre you're taking the entire 8 acre number true that is correct okay so when we're calculating units per acre we're not subtracting the land that is becoming essentially non-buildable or or not for you know because when when I look at my house lot I can't go halfway into the street to calculate what I can build and I'm just wondering um because that's the approach we're taking when it comes to subdividing will these divisions be compliant actually in terms of you know meeting the uh standards that one would assume would be applied and that would be you wouldn't calculate the road when you were um looking at the area you would only look at the buildable area that's correct they're not platting a public Street um so what you're looking at here this is the total land area of the site that north south would be there would be easements established over it that allows the public to use it but it's at the maintenance of the property owner if you looked at each lot individually each lot would meet the comprehensive plan the the density of lot one would be 69 units an acre the density city of lot two with the two apartments this would be 97 units an acre but would you be subtracting the amount of space the pathway occupied you would not would not that's not dedicated as it's they're just easements over that area okay I don't have any more questions at this point Thank You member rer member Jackson yes thank you Mr Mayor so two questions for you first is I did not see a calculation of perious surface before and after is that in your memo or did I miss it I did not run that calculation okay so I'd be interested in um seeing what that is I know that we're working with Watershed districts on on runoff and everything and updating that but I'd be interested in the previous surface the second question is um we got a memo from the parks and recck Department um about the Centennial a from the Centennial AES director and one of the questions she had was about the wind tunnel when we're looking at this as a zoning question is that something that could be a condition we put on something to address the wind because we have a traffic study we have a light you know we often ask for a shadow study but I've never heard of a wind study before but it sounds like maybe as we develop along the um uh promade that's something we're going to have to think about is there a a service that does a wind study and B is that something that can be addressed through zoning yeah but not that I'm aware of um in terms of a wind study I know the B power has caused some wind issues and it's hard to keep some of the landscape scaping alive over there so there is a concern with the parks department it's something that if we can think of a specific condition to add to the project we certainly can do that um but it would be fine-tuning that between preliminary and final to try to address that all right thank you other questions I think okay do you happen to know the width of the uh promin the right away there is it 80 ft prade you had any thought on that I can measure it quick and get back to you here shortly thank you okay so I had I don't think any of the rest of us have any questions let's go to the applicant and have them make their presentation it is 80 ft mayor you're correct on the width of the prominade is 80 ft okay good evening evening gentlemen good evening nice to see you all again we saw you during a sketch plan and we welcome you back thank you kindly glad to to be here with you in the council this evening and the community again um on behalf of our entire team that's here uh excited a little taller WR you know tip that microphone head up a little bit there you go talk a little bit louder also sure um on behalf of our entire development team and uh design team excited to be here again with you to continue what we think is a great conversation on uh what we think is a project that has a potential to be really great so um and can I grab big clicker real quick yeah so why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and have the other folks introduce themselves as well and give us your business address for the record yep uh so I'm my name is Patrick Brahma I'm with Enclave so development team up on this slide uh one of the developers on the project uh my address is66 1660 South Highway 100 St Louis Park yeah Terry Minar with Confluence all right we're 901 North thirr Street Minneapolis and we're Landscape Architects on the project hello everyone I'm Lucas van cistin with ESG architecture and design and we're at 500 Washington Avenue South in Minneapolis so real quick I uh planning to just give some quick background on the project um I'll touch on introductions of some of the other team members here uh and then turn over to the architect for a 3D fly through of the project which we think will be the exciting part of the presentation um so as I mentioned I'm with Enclave a partner developer on the project is lifestyle communities they're here this evening as well ESG is up at the podium but a partner architect on the project is pulpe architect um they're working on the Southwest site uh Stant is civil engineer working on this project and then Confluence design is doing the landscaping design and public realm design for the project little bit of background um kind of how we got here and I think uh Mr Teague did a great job of uh going through this so I won't go in detail but um just want to put a pin in this you we went through I think a really great engagement process that's been about a year and a half long process with a lot of different touch points with different stakeholders in the community um that feedback means a lot to us um and we take it to heart and are hopeful that as we go through this presentation you can see some of the feedback we received hopefully reflected in the plans our intent uh all along is to take feedback and try to reflect that in what we're proposing so it's been a great process so far it doesn't end or hasn't ended yet we're still continuing to engage with um stakeholders uh as desired and obviously through this public process um so with that I just wanted to highlight some like the really big takeaways um that we had or uh pulled away from that public process and what we did to the project uh to attempt to respond to that first as Mr te had mentioned and I won't go into detail on this because he went through it is um we work side by side with staff in the city to go through um a a public engagement process for a potential connection across France Avenue a pedestrian connection um really the outcome of that process is our site was adjusted to accept a potential connection whether it does happen or doesn't whether it's now or it's in the future whether it's below ground or above ground um so there are a handful of tweaks that were made to our site layout uh to accommodate that secondly in the vein of um the Southdale District guidelines and a lot of the feedback that we've heard uh through um interacting with the public is is is public realm public realm public realm a public tissue that runs from the pro to France connect France to the prominade make the site not feel like a private exclusive development for private benefit only make it feel like an area the public can feel welcome to walk through make it multimodal make pedestrian first and so the red area shown here uh is an example of that area that uh is intentionally programmed um depending on the calculation there was some discussion of it here just even in the original presentation there's different ways to calculate that could be in the high 30s could be about 50% depending on how you calculate and Define what public realm is um but we just want to identify that that's part of the intention of our site plan is to respond to uh providing public realm a specific component of that that I wanted to mention and we'll touch in detail in the 3D presentation is the east to west um Plaza area I don't have a great term for that I don't want to call it the prominade east to west because then it gets confusing but that Center to east to west uh Plaza that runs to the center of our site reflecting on what we originally presented about about a year and a half ago compared to what you see now previously you would have seen a lot of impervious surface um the layout of the buildings created a unintentionally kind of a slight Canyon effect of massing against that prominade or that excuse me east to west connection uh there was less green um the design was more linear and rectangular uh the East Side uh between the two East buildings previously had a parking ramp running below ground connecting the two buildings that Southeast bu building previously was facing uh Southward the u- shape was facing south so um what we did and the intention here was to kind of flip a lot of that um to make it not feel linear to reduce the amount of impervious surface to add green to allow for tree planting to make it look and feel like an extension of the prominade versus a private Plaza to allow that area between the two East buildings to get sunlight uh to allow for proper tree growth and with the depth of soil to real tree establishment um and then additionally uh to focus the intention of design especially on the first two floor to this project to interact and connect well with that Center East to West Plaza so there's a lot of as the architect and design team fly through the site you'll see a lot of kind of the front doors on this project a lot of pedestrian level connections whether it's restaurants commercials Lobby areas um uh residential walk out space uh amenities that interact with that Center East to West Plaza and then uh further on the public realm side of things and Mr Teague uh identified kind of this expansion of the prominade into our sites uh for frame of reference the property to the South Pinstripes has a0o to 5 foot setback from the prominade 701 France just north of us has a 15 to 20 foot setback from the prominade I I believe the B bow was about 20 to 25 ft we're at 35 Plus in some areas trying to respond to the desire from the community to get the buildings further out the prominade and expand that area same comment here is the center East to West Plaza intention of the design to not be linear and look like a big um impervious area that feels like a private space to make it not rectangular to make it more curvy natural feeling like an expansion of the of the uh uh prominade area so uh the design is um as such and will be discussed in uh in the presentation um we did add uh a restaurant on the east side of this on the prominade that was not there originally and that was added in uh in response to requests received and then lastly um the design team will go into detail but the Northeast side of the site does have um a public amenity available for the public to use as they're going through the prominade some people use the terminology as a room uh for the uh prominade area and then uh art was mentioned we did add art in four different locations uh those are highlighted in those red dots sou side of the South buildings we did receive request to incorporate green Walls wherever we could on the project we felt that the south side of the South bu building for sunlight sunlight reasons was the most logical area to uh Place those and also be successful with the establishment of those green Walls and then um a little bit hard to describe on a site plan but in general we did hear a comment about parking and and having too much parking on this site uh and making sure that we can convert parking in the future if it is identified that we're overp parked I can go into a little bit more detail and it's included in our narrative but we we did make some intentional changes to the project designed to account for that and then we had a great meeting with the Planning Commission um just recently I did want to note for the sake of trying to like at least from the developer side of uh things identify we heard some comments um and we're going to try to respond to them one uh labeled one on the map here uh The Pedestrian Crossway over that North to South Road um we're going to add some we're going to make some enhancements to that for pedestrian safety and placemaking the design team will talk through that when they do their flyth through the parking that's parallel parking along the west side of that North to South Road um unintentionally through our original submitt we didn't really identify the programming there or make a distinction of how that would be used or what it would look like but Our intention is to add more programming maybe change the color of the pavement make it clear that it's not just straight up parking for vehicles that it's for a lot of other important uses to allow a development like this to function successfully and really uh based on uh at least some select comments from Planning Commission members avoid a situation where like a resident in one of the apartment buildings just Hogs one of those stalls and it kind of goes against the intent of of the stall being there for multi-purpose use um number three was covered in uh Carrie's comments uh and then number four uh there's just uh some architectural detail that wasn't included in our original sub that we'll just highlight tonight on the Southeast side of the southeast building um so that's the highlight of uh kind of the big things that as you're going through the architect presentation I just wanted to highlight we intentionally are trying to make a connection to some of the feedback that we reive so turn it over to the team thank you thank you Mr bro okay as much as we love a good site plan we'd like to jump to the 3D model so we can fly around and get a get a sense of the the spaces the height the materiality all of that I can I can I'll start here and talk more about massing and the material and kind of the architectural party you can see we're looking along France uh through the center where the prominade is being pulled through all the way to France and you can see in the the the the materiality and the identity of the architecture here is a little more uh commercial feeling as we move through to the east it'll start to feel a little more residential and part of the things that are doing that is a a high transparency so you know you're looking at you for example on the left building that's probably 90% transparency um and then as we move through the where it's a residential unit it could be 45% transparency so you'll see that difference as we move through you'll also see in terms of materials um on this facade the idea is that there's a a bigger mass of one material so on the for example on the building on the left that would be that white material is a cast stone that goes all the way up and then next to that is a brick that goes all the way up as we move through the site you'll see that those materials that cast Stone generally then will'll stay at the base and we have more of a tripartite approach when we get through to the more residential Fielding part of the site so those are some things to to notice as we as we fly through as it pertains to the architecture Terry if there's anything else you want to mention on this slide that's good I'll come around to it as we come around the building you can zoom in so keeping with the area guidelines and the premise of this development this this whole development is organized around the human activity in the public realm the walkability of the community the access to local Regional Trails the connectivity to the to the relationships of the buildings around it and the services around it are all kind of focused on the public um there's an intentionality of not identifying the car as being dominant but the The Pedestrian as being dominant so there's a very heavy in into public realm this this begins to illustrate some of that connection to France Avenue there's that strong buffer that allows the ability for connect for the connection of the underpass or future overpass um of France Avenue along France Avenue it's a little wider than most of the developments on France but that allows for that to happen in the future because of the extensive grade change that could possibly occur with underpass but it also gives us a shortterm ability to actually create a larger landscape buffer taking away some of that you know elephant in the room the size of France Avenue and its unw walkability and its unfriendliness to humans um it this kind of begins to soften that and create that buffered Edge between the development and and the busy street um you can see here the beginning of the um the internal uh kind of pedestrian connection here as uh Patrick said we don't want to call it another prominade but that connection towards the prominade it's like this green spine of fingers we have in this site that begins to reach through the development and begin those connections to those surrounding amenities prominade Centennial Lakes and the entire Community something about this development that's different is you know this follows area guidelines to full extents I think in my opinion um and you'll see that throughout but the reason it looks different is because it's never been done before right we're kind of meeting all the goals that we've met before so it'll look a lot different than it's looked before the density is going to feel heavier there's going to feel like there's no room for cars there's no room for parking but that's because it is primarily focused on landscape and pedestrian so here you can begin to see the space we're identifying um Patrick talked about the opportunity for uses on both buildings on the front here there'll be prime restaurants um the buildings will actually wrap on both sides so that from all Corners you begin to be able to see that connection to activity uh on the corners both in the Interior Space uh from the south and from the north those restaurants wrap the corners come into the development space and have this opportunity to interact with an open lawn area kind of creating one of these nodes of opportunity for for kind of exemplified or exaggerated landscape where people can connect gather uh celebrate events there could be small movies here could be concerts could be um you know Community bags events those sorts of things you can see how the tenant uh of the office building to the to the uh North relates to the lawn area um you can see how the interaction of the building steps back so the upper private spaces kind of interact with the public spaces as well kind of giving more of a feeling of connectivity as well and then you can move to the next slide and then as we move deeper in you kind of begin that sense of feel of that terraine happening so it doesn't feel like like here in a walled Cavern as Patrick was mentioning um intentionally the landscape here uh is not over structured so it allows us the ability to provide larger trees and more in-depth Landscaping more of that kind of public space the Furnishings the materiality begins to change as well and it begins to identify more of that pedestrian scale and feel um some of the building spaces in the middle of the building to the uh Northwest potentially a community room that could spill out maybe a wew work type situation where that could spill out into the into the landscape and Eng the neighborhood as well but you really get the strong sense of just being more public than it is private next slide right can I ask a question so the when we we look at uh some of the these kind of virtual views like they they look wonderful and it looks great right um my question is how can we get a sense of what it will feel like if you're you know sitting listening to a concert between those two buildings how does that give us how can we get a sense of what that might I can give you a great example um you might have to go online if you're not going to travel there but in in uh Georgia um there's a place called Alpharetta it's pretty popular development there's a place called Avalon that is a very similar condition to this it has like a Main Street development that actually has public realm in the middle of the street for the North South traffic and then they'll have a centralized Green Space that is surrounded by commercial retail on the lowest level and then five six seven story residential adjacent to it with a backdrop of a movie theater kind of entertainment facility with a water fountain and that sort of stuff but it's it's a similar relationship to this they actually have a welcome building and they have bags on Wednesday night and they have Bond bowling on another night and they have movies on another night um so this is kind of that similar space relationship it's very similar it might be slightly WI um but it's kind of a similar type of feel to this this is a little more intimate than that that's a little larger scale but and what what's the name again Avalon in Alfreda Avalon yeah okay and I can send you a link too perfect would you go back one slide please so you got the view from France Avenue so keep going yeah that's that's fine that's good no go back where you were I think it's easier to ask this question when you've got this orientation so when we think about The Pedestrian experience which I know you've tried to embrace from the southill design experience guidelines we talk about making sure that that first 60 feet makes one feel like you don't have the building hanging over your head but you've done a good job of that on the left hand side of this as you go move down through uh with that Podium Style height but on the right hand side it's a just a to me it's just like a sheer wall until you get up and I don't know what the height of that is before it it switches over to apartments behind office I'm assuming that's what we're looking at here but it looks to me like it's might be 60 80 80 feet tall uh and so I'm walking in the on the on the southide there in the shade where that one person is and I get this this sheer wall above me here and um just from looking at this it makes me feel like well I don't want to be on that side I I don't want to be in that that spot where I got the building feeling like it's hanging over me I want to be on the other side of this this so-called street I'll call it that a street passageway and I my rate that we're talking 60 ft here we're we're because it looks it looks wide when you look at it but if I got my admissions correct off what director teag presented we're talking about a space that's 20 yard wide is that right yeah 60 ft 20 yards I can do that calculation yeah yeah yes 60 ft except where it bumps out like you said to the north so in the prominade is about 30 yards wide that's why I asked that question earlier about um spatial relationship to the to the pron because that's something I've got in my head as to as to as to a space that work works well for pedestrian movements that has even when you get up by 71 France lenss barley you you still have a sense that it's it's okay it feels comfortable you can breathe there's there's a lot of freedom in the in the in the air so to speak I get a little bit nervous here when I watch you going on the virtual down the north side of that south building Southwest Building sure no I totally understand that and I think there's two different Landscapes that you're kind of dealing with there one is more of a public park right that the density isn't the same within a public space this is the internal development to the core following the guidelines with setbacks that have been set in the guidelines the north side is a little softer in what that appeals the South Side still meets the guidelines to where their setbacks are established but it is more of an Abrupt wall what we've tried to do to soften that is there's a lot of transparency on that wall we've done some planting in front of it as well to begin to take away that kind of pedestrian scale feeling of monumentality there there's also going to be where it says mural there's going to be a piece of art along that wall that'll engage people as well so that'll help them that's a nice feature yeah so we don't know what it is so we didn't want to put something up there I don't like that that's not my style of art so it's just going to be a mural and then above it is there's you know it's very transparent and that is part of actually the parking structure so um you know with the parking structure for the office based on that they they need a lot more above ground than the other building does so that begins to accommodate some of that and then the office space as part of it above it um so we're trying to soften that edge we're opening it up um I think in the corner with the restaurant it really begins to do it there is this section in the middle and I think by expanding to the north we begin to open up that feeling also the difference between kind of the prominade and this is this is more of a pedestrian feel we do accommodate bikes we allow bikes to come into the development but like any a public walkable space we encourage people more to walk their bikes through here than to ride them um with that access being France to Gallagher to the prominade to get to the more highspeed traffic um we'll continue through this and we can kind of talk about a little bit more in the next I think we're all appreciative of the fact that if my data my notes are right here 45% of the land is dedicated to public use but it it strikes me that you're on France Avenue between France and York and that's for we we've said that's okay to have a little height there you know and you you've got an 18-story building within a couple blocks and so I'm wondering when you go taller skinnier you get more green space rather than shorten squat you know and so I to me I'd rather have you open this up a little bit so that there was more breathing room and go higher than yeah everybody's got an opinion kind of like art yeah so no I get it I totally and that that's that's a valid comment that's fine rer could you back up so that we're a little earlier and we can see that access off of France too okay um a little more okay okay um a couple of concerns where is the Ada access you've got these stairs here so the Ada access comes from the north side and the South Side as they as they lead in through the restaurants like in in the face of the buildings that's where we have our ad access and directly off the street we so two things here we didn't we didn't do a direct ramp here we could but that is also within that setback area for the future connector and eventually if this goes below grade that whole front terracing goes away the artpiece will remain but the terracing goes away and we drop down 20 plus feet below France Avenue to do the underpass if that underpass happens so if I'm walking or I'm going down France you you'd come to an adaa access from the south prior to getting to the middle or you come to an ada8 access from the north prior to getting to the middle okay the other those restaurants have Ada access on both sides right it's it's disappointing that the grand entrance off of France is not Ada accessible yeah that's something we can look at the other and I was walking the site yesterday and um where your Boulevard ends that is where the turn lane is created and it makes me nervous that you're bringing the sidewalk right up to the curb and you're getting rid of that Boulevard because I think that buffer is really rather important um I hear what mayor hland is saying about height but I think part of the problem is we've got this model where you have to turn things of interest into the center of the development and I think what ends up happening is the buildings are almost you know showing their backs to France to the prominade you're you're making concessions but the experience of walking down France I think is kind of disappointing um and when I think about Lun berer Le and I was trying to imagine with the site that I was looking at um how close the walls of the building were going to be compared to where the ramp going up to Lun Bley is and it's really kind of nice the way you go up a ramp and you're pulled back from the street and you're elevated above it as you take that pathway um there's a lot going on here but the connector and I have to say putting the connector right there you know and I think I might be the only one who is concerned by you know Shifting the prominade further to the North or whatever or you know extending it instead of going where the bike path is and where you you could have a natural progression from the prominade where you're not entering into a private space and even though you're saying this is a public there's going to be public easements we'll view it as public but it it is within a private development it's not between so those those are things I'm thinking about go ahead and we'll keep going and we we'll that' be great well maybe I'll figure out a way ask my question a different way so I don't emote get such an and I think I can respond I think I can answer a bunch of questions that have been brought up as well too so you know a lot of the connection here buildings follows the guidelines to break up the 200x 200t block that's why it's through the center of the development that's why it is pedestrian we also do have a separate 50 foot plus easement on the south side to accommodate the future underpass connection which does increase public real to the South that could be in the middle of the site if that wasn't required but it is required as part of this development by the city so U that's kind of adds to that what we're truly we're truly trying to emphasize in this image is that pedestrian connection and that pedest estan movement through the site that is the north south Road as we know is for temporary Park temporary you know drop off pickup that sort of stuff and this really emphasizes that by a raised platform balls to protect the protect the public you can see the differentiation in pavement and the attention to detail with you know public seating and waiting areas for pickup and drop off but also how that begins to open up on this bottom end too go to the next slide you'll see where that wall was a concern before how that begins to open up in the corner um there's a distinctive jog in this Central pedestrian realm and that is to accommodate that connection to the underpass but our overpass but also it is to intentionally kind of break up the space so it doesn't feel so long and linear we think that'll also help with wind reduction um we think it'll begin to break it up with the massings of buildings these buildings aren't anywhere close to the height of the bower um and the setback from the prominade from the prominade is a lot greater then as well so you begin to see this pedestrian connection this relationship to the corner of the buildings more art more public art um also that community room was in the metal there's a residence kind of Lobby here that'll activate the street as well on the corner of the Northwest building next slide how wide is that street Mr monar um this is a 60 foot right of way 60 foot right away but width of the street itself um I'm going to say it's like 36 with parking yeah with the parking and 24 without the parking okay so it's a standard City street you can you can see the cross one of the challenges you guys have here it seems to me is it's like a grand version of what we faced over there with think Bank on the prominade you you've really got the challenge of trying to have four front doors yep everywhere every side you go to you got to think about it as almost like a front door and so you got to make it look good from every conceivable Direction and that's that's that's tricky work it's not easy to do there's always a back side you'll see that comment so well and then we we we we'll see as we progress through this how you know that the the talk about putting all our bank far Buck along France Avenue you'll see how the southide these buildings do open up on every side to be part of public realm so here you can see to the South we emphasize emphasize The Pedestrian to the north we emphasize the quick drop off short-term parking you can see the transparency to the first level of the buildings and how that begins to connect in go to the next slide and then as we begin to move into this next jog in into the prominade you can see that openness begins to happen next slide what's the material that you're showing us there that light colored material um so it'll be a combination of both uh probably some concrete some Paving some colored concrete you know we're trying to diversify that so one of the things here that you kind of see here is the width of this and um the reason there's a lot of Paving here plus as we entered into the the West Direction was we require fir truck AC access so the original fire crust truck access drawing was a straight line with a hammerhead and it didn't look very pretty so we softened that up by making this curved road that can accommodate the Turning radiuses of the firet truck they want us to soften it even more um but I think that it's the possibility of the fir Tru um going through here doesn't feel like it that's what it's designed for it's designed for people it's designed for movement it's designed for Gathering so with this we've kind of varied the texture of the paving so there is a a a right of width it's required but it looks narrower and feels narrower because of the different textures and Paving as we use through here plus the areas for seating and Gathering and the interconnection next slide so here's a little deeper in you can begin to see the relationship to the walkouts um as related to the public space and the private space the elevation of the private space helps to create that separation but still make it feel as one um the reason that there's no need for a lot of private space here is because we do accommodate that on the amenity deck so we do have a lot a private space within the amenity spaces above so that allows us to create more public space here as well go to the next slide and then this kind of pulls us up so you can begin to see that interconnection um I know in our previous meeting you revers referred to the buildings is the dueling Seas there's a reason for that because it allows light to penetrate into the corridor here that allows us to grow plants and Landscape it also provides more light more of an intimate relationship it almost has a brownstone walkup type feel with purely residential although it can accommodate emergency vehicles and then we begin to break that up with the height and the density of the larger building and that really begins to open up this this part of the site next slide is it intended that these walk-ups are all rental yeah okay yeah the the Condominiums are in the Southwest Building yes yes only right yeah you can see in the in the background here the taller building okay so here you can begin to see the relationship to the private amenity space and then the public space with still some private adjacent to it but it really has more of a stronger public feel pulling it from the prominade as you'll see in the next few slides um but also that inner relationship of the spaces and then the the distinctive jog that we have or the purposeful jog we have on the western development so that it's not this long shot or straight line you have this interest of the focal point of the art and then you turn the corner but it's still all are connected as like a finger that pulls away from the prominade and then this shows that strong relationship to the South and I think you know um we talked about the emphasis we put on the North and the center spines and everywhere but I think this connection to the prominade is something we put extra emphasis in because we felt it was really important and we understand the relationship of the prominade to the entire um uh district and area and that walkability and and how that connectivity happens it happens here through a public space through the middle it'll happen through the southern side and it also happens on the north side of our development so there's these fingers of movement that can happen throughout the site now what we did here too though is we actually went beyond our property line and we've talked to the city about this and the park board about this and then the developers willing to maintain all this property as part of an agreement uh but we really think it kind of feels seamless if we do pull up right to that property line with our with our design and how we're interacting you can see the Hammerhead cleverly hidden in here you can see the restaurant that'll activate the prominade caus a lot of activity more eyes in the street more safety a really strong sense of public here versus private with that restaurant which I think helps pull people through the development as well um we also provide elements like cenel lakes with regards to the swings and the seating kind of tying this whole prominade together next slide you can see the walkouts here how they still have a private feel but they are connected to the public space as well and then we talk about this outdoor room and uh through public engagement through discussions we talked about open space we talked about art we talked about playground um but the dog park seemed to resonate with a lot of people whether it's just for the development for the public as well because there was some worry about if being public but if it is a we think it's a great opportunity um one of the concerns was the demand would be high and if that's a problem then I think we're checking the Box because if the demand is high then that's something that's needed in the area so we just think that'll help activate everything in the prominade and connect to the community it's something to give back to the surrounding developments as well as well if they don't have that space next slide so one of our residents suggested to us that um because you're on the prominade that's a natural place to walk your dog and be because you're putting uh affordable units in the building uh project uh potentially if it's approved that uh you can expect that there'll be kids here and you'd be better off with a small Park you have you thought that yes we have I and we've talked about it with the amenity space for the specific residents to have a children's play area so then we can accommodate both of the features and still accommodate the residents living in the building to have that amenity space so okay um so this is just kind of another view where you can kind of see it's not your average dog park it's pretty high-end artificial turf beautiful seating covered canopy um you know really nice amenities elements waist bins dog bags all that stuff so I think um it would be very well received next SL oh yeah irrigation yes yeah smell irrigation yes all of our dog parks fully irrigated next slide I can we go back to the dog park I I think what I'm hearing and I believe in the park and wreck memo there was a please don't put the dog park right by the prominade and um you know I I have dogs I think about walking my dogs I don't walk on the prominade but you know you're walking your dog and suddenly you go near a dog park and what that might you know the Ruckus that could erupt especially from one of my dogs uh is something that people are thinking about as well I've heard somebody say the smell uh it just seems one of the consistent things I'm hearing from people including people who are uh very much supportive of your project is do not put the dog park by the prominade yeah it's great um and I think the park board to clarify they were worried about the busyness of it because it would be so well used that it might cause log jams on the prominade when people are walking by you know that sort of stuff although this is The Pedestrian side not the bike side so um but that is understandable and then here you get the view more to the South connecting to Centennial Lakes in the main link you see that connection of those public spaces we provided some open Lawns some areas for Gathering some denser planting to separate kind of that off the prominade use from the on the prominade use so there's a little more privacy so we don't have um direct connections as many places we were talking with the park board also about maybe reducing the connections so that um there's less opportunities for people but uh in kind of interacting but again this is The Pedestrian side of the prominade not the bike side next slide and then here's the view at the corner when you come out of Centennial Lakes kind of that main intersection the 9mile creek trail uh that trail was talked about being widened that was at the request of Three Rivers but also the fire department for Access here we can get away with not maybe Paving the whole thing and using some other type of product like netlon or grass pave or something to keep it more green um we're looking at uh creating a good buffer between residential and the trail you can see the connection to some of those open spaces and the uh restaurant as well and then the center of the prominade next we we have reworked this corner since meeting with Planning Commission kind of tearing it and stepping it back a little more at the corner here kind of that view back uh towards the prominade the one thing that think is great about this project is it provides two really powerful connections to the prominade but it also provides another subtle one to the north but nowhere along France is there that direct visibility to the prominade where you feel like you're invited even the main connection to The Pavilion at Centennial Lakes kind of feels like it's part of a parking lot and you're not really entering a space we think the opportunity here Public public park sign of some whether it's a prominade or not could make this strong connection you see this larger uh kind of concrete space the easement for the Pinstripes uh kind of service area requires that to stay we're trying to make it not look like binus and something more public um the only time that would ever be driven on is by those service Vehicles we're not intending it as a circulation way through here um you can begin to see the entries to the the Main Street and how that feels in the connectivity and then next slide kind of back up a little bit and then for the main Southwest building a lot of open park space there as well this is part of that connection from France Avenue where you where you can see where the underpass or overpass might happen kind of that wrapping around the corner connection to the 9em creek trail uh that softness the restaurant um and just providing some of those public elements along this facade as well to begin to soften that edge and create more of that public realm this is one of the reasons why our Center space is only 60 ft because we could probably wide that if we didn't have to accommodate for that 50 here but that was a real strong desire to make that connection for that circulation so uh we wanted to provide that and then here again at the the corner I don't know if you want to talk about the architecture here but this is kind of that shot from Gallagher showing that connection you can really see the strong connection with the uh 9mile Creek Trail how it connects to the prominade the accessibility we haven't changed uh any of the uh kind of intersection details the access to the Pinstripes development remains exactly the same is today the only thing we've taken away is that temporary parking that people have been using on the Macy's lot um and put a development there but um a lot of this is uh you know kind of the landscape here along this side of France we've done a lot of projects in the area in in in here along France and I think this is one of the most well-landscaped and pedestrian defined uh environments you know the 7200 and 7250 is a very nice place as well as was 7001 but I think this one kind of steps it up even a further Notch of being very Grand and very welcoming to the public and kind of that shot from the north side this is what you said maybe you're not So Glamorous side um but we do have some uh short-term parking some drop off parking and this accommodates the restaurants within the building it's Minnesota people like to see that there's parking they feel comfortable with that it's part of what we've been asked to provide by the developers of those types of facilities and that'll really be begin to attract the vendors to those sites there's still a strong pedestrian connection uh down to the South next slide and then connects through the development you can see the strong uh you know model of the street with the the uh pedestrian to the South and vehicular temporary drop off and then there's that another art moment there um kind of connecting to that pedestrian circulation we still have to provide for fire on this side as well so that does require a little bit more Paving and then next slide and then this takes us around back to the corner again where you kind of see the corner of the prominade and then next slide and then kind of the overall shot where you can see the Meandering of the prominade the Pomerado almost gets blurred you can't even really see where it is but it's that bottom path and how we bleed that into the site wind and Meander past some of the public art and the buildings and connect to the North and then that same feeling happens uh along the south side to a little bit more kind of toned down detail as primarily the uh you know more bike and commuter type traffic on the Nile Creek Trail and then last slide and then just kind of the overall shot of the development again from from France Avenue so I I think that's it member Jackson yes thank you Mr Mayor so I have a couple of questions um I'm looking at this this is a great slide to look at when people are walking on France I Envision this sidewalk as being pedestrian traffic as in transportation not me anding and going to the park so I'm worried about the curve to the sidewalk and I'm also worried about the lack of buffer if you've ever walked down France and I'm sure you have worked on this a lot it's a very loud Street yeah so if you're walking along if you're going to the grocery store from someplace south of there this should be a direct line I want to get to the grocery store I want to get home I don't want to lose my hearing I don't want to get hit by a car you know things like that so um it's a minor point but I want this to yeah I think what you're saying is it'd be nice to have that commuter Road and then a secondary pedestrian road that provides that access it just some way so that yeah if I'm walking I feel safe and and I can get to my destination um so because so this integrates with the rest of it sounds great um and then the other questions I have I oh when you're looking at the ameni spaces um will the two residential buildings have access to to each other's amenity spaces or okay yeah so if one is the pool and the other one's the playground everyone can go to the playground pool's on the North side so we get that sun from the south and then on the south side is be more a little more shadier so that'll have other amenities yeah okay thank you and then let me think um with the EV charging is it how how is just generally when you're building a building in 2024 do you wire it for a time when they will be 100% e or is that something that would have to be added in later and you're asking a landscape architect oh you're the landscape architect I'm sorry that's okay okay we'll get to the architect then Christopher do you want to come up too I'm Christopher wette with the SG architecture and design colleague of Lucas's 500 Washington Avenue South in Minneapolis uh the short answer is we are providing an uh amount of conduit to handle future EV Chargers above the base initial buildout of them anything beyond that in the future can be wired it just then the whole electric design and Transformer design it kind of it grows in terms of the the overall adjustment of power that's necessary for the site but you could also see the flip side as solar becomes more prominent and you know uh Vehicles go more to Electric those two things kind of start to balance each other out over time as well but in 2024 we're equipped for in 2050 when we're 100% electric vehicles this will still be a relevant building is my question uh correct you could still come in and convert okay the building there'd be additional work beyond what is currently here but it won't be like oh we have to tear everything out on this first floor to accommodate okay that was my question thank you Ru thank you so I'm just going to go with questions for now and then I assume we'll come back for more General thoughts at some point um but my one my first question is around the restaurant uh so first thank you for including a couple more of those activation components um for the restaurant well actually this is general for any of them can you highlight a little bit more where you're thinking about like patio seating um and how that will be separate yet integrated with any of the General Park open seating yes so it's different on both sides so each each of the buildings on the West Side have restaurants in the bases of them or some form of commercial retail um and you can kind of see the outdoor patios are where the umbrellas are so they do go along the front and the corners of the building but also wrap interior to the to the central public space so there's an interner relationship there to activities that could be happening within that space but also uh intimacy of the restaurant if you don't want to sit in a public space like that so that's how it works in the front side and so so here sorry if we can go back quick um I was not quick enough on the draw apologize for that uh is it the really the coloring then of the flooring that I'm looking at so those three and then the four on the the right hand side would be part of the restaurant and then that theide yeah that's suggests space right in in way we're defining it it doesn't mean it couldn't spill out into other areas but the front of the building would have you can kind of see the where the elevated area here is without umbrellas I don't know if you want to kind of point to that area so there's this area along the front of the building that's outdoor dining space but then also on the inside and we've just kind of highlighted those small intimate areas because that exists also on the south side of the Southwest building but then it could also extend into this space as well so depending on demand it's kind of flexible thank you yeah and then the other one in in the uh on the back um we have a raise patio there that's specifically disengaged from um the prominade uh kind of physically you so there's an ADA ramp there's also steps that get you up to the space but it slightly elevates you above the prominade but still provides for that connectivity for people to sit out and sit in chairs and gather within the kind of um circulation route that's a part of the space but the immediate outdoor seating is Right adjacent to the restaurant thank you and then now that we're on this side anyway um so as I understand it these two buildings on the east side are the rental based units um so are those amenities shared I noticed one pool can people go okay yeah yeah I think somebody asked that earlier yeah okay sorry for that um and then did you explore any alternative housing types within this and and where I'm kind of going with this is this is a this is a lot of housing within one area and so I'm thinking really about diversity of housing um and I know that they're not as prevalent right now but you have some of these like more communal kind of shared um housing options where there might be like a joint kitchen and then like six or eight kind of bunk rooms off of that like did you explore any of those kind of things here or is it just fairly um typical kinds of housing not not that one specifically I don't know Ben well Ben or Patrick if you want to the the condo building is definitely unique from what I'm used to just standard department but Patrick go ahead yeah the yeah the the answer your specific question answer is no uh but just for the record um uh there's Studios to three bedrooms uh so all those different unit types different sizes all the way up from Penthouse down to ground floor Town Homes to just walk out units uh we have for sale and rentable so and affordable units as well so um not yester your direct question but I think there's a handful of at least from our perspective a handful of different housing options on the site thank you uh and then another very I think direct question is have you explored at least on the spaces that are roads throughout the site where there is parking um whether or not that could be like paid parking option to really help throttle um I think one of the comments was you don't have a resident just parking their vehicle there all at all times um is that being considered for an option to help with the the management of parking I think that could be I think it'd have to be a discussion with the city to be able to put meters there and and kind of organize it that way the guidelines specifically say short-term parking in any way or form that's meant for drop off pickup delivery that sort of stuff so I think if there's some way we can identify that that's what it is I think that would help that and encourage that like you know minimum you know 20 30 minute parking or something like that okay thank you and so one of the questions when I was initially looking at this um kind of before you went through your whole presentation was like what's the big idea and I think when we had talked previously you know I said something that's going to be that that Community draw and throughout of course like a venue or something like that a comedy club um and and so I in one way you know I do appreciate the inclusion of restaurants I think that that is going to bring people there um but there's only so much that people can eat um the one thing that I did feel like started to hint at this was and this came at the way end right the like here is the park and bringing the the green in it to the signage I think that that was that like visual wow factor that I was looking for um but is there anything else that you would kind of highlight as like here's the big idea and this is why this really is you know the right thing for this I would say I know that there's three sites in this general area right now right but these are generational opportunities that we see within the community of Bina and so it's really important for I know all of us all of us here to make sure that what we're putting here is is really Monumental important so with that what's the big idea do you see the image that's up now I do that's your big green here's the park sign and I think Patrick's still waiting for you to bring the comedy club uh development to the development so I got jokes ready um great question yeah so um obviously um wow moments what's an amenity what's a public benefit uh as we go through this process um as you well know everybody has a different perspective and what I think is an awesome some thing you know I kind of get different feedback so um I'm going to try to uh just identify a few things that may or may not land uh based on your you know on someone's position so I mean the 45% of public space is one item um uh uh the the restaurant spaces whether it's to the west side of the site or the east side that you mentioned this Landmark piece there's four pieces of art that we added into the project um we do have and I don't know if you guys can go to it we're expecting to have like a rental conference area we haven't like programmed it completely but there's a um a notch in that Northwest building that expands the prominade greater than 60 ft and in that area there's a area we we anticipating to be allowed to be used by the public or rented by the public like a little Min conference room or Conference Center or co-work area uh so we have that as well um you were joking but in all seriousness we uh heard the comment about specialized users so rather than just going into the typical run-ofthe-mill prospects for this project can we get a creative type of use creative type of retail creative specialized type of restaurant user experienced type uh user Comedy Club entertainment um because we're so far out I we talked about this previously I it's a little bit of speculation but we have engaged our leasing team jll we've identified that request and desire and they you know they kind of have the same response we can't guarantee what we can bring you back but there are very few sites that we can feel strong about and push and this is a unique site that where we think we could get unique leasing activity from a unique user um so we hope that we have luck in that direction and we come back to you with some sort of amended PUD to change a facade for some awesome user that could uh add a spark to the development as well um am I missing anything that you guys on on the heels of that to Patrick just in the way we're setting up retail and restaurant opportunities the space outside of those is more than just little patios right there's to the South we've got a big expressive space that opens up to this axis that leads to the prominade on the east side you saw the tiered seating opportunities so that all leads into these opportunities that Patrick's alluding to for potential whether it's Le's or you know purchasers of that space to really get creative with what they can do with it we're trying to set that we're trying to set the framework for something unique to come in even though we don't necessarily have the control in this moment to pick what that is and I do think you know if we're talking big destination draw from a landscape point of view that's Centennial Lakes we're not going to compete with that right and every other development around here has use Centennial Lakes as their Green Space and you know this we're creating something more of that we're creating Conn connections to it fingers to it that do provide these spots and opportunities for smaller act activation and events and opportunities for not only the public but the residents that live here but we are connecting to the prominade and we are connecting to Centennial LS because that is the draw so given that this and I I keep it on the screen um given that this is such a focal point of the connector area what will be the impact if there is is an over over underpass here well we hope um so the way this is set up right now we hope to still have a pretty direct connection to that underpass now our intent was if it's an underpass we're probably going to pull that into the development a little bit if it's an overpass then it might be part of the architecture and kind of fit in the same design um the intent for circulation though primarily is to go Ada up to Gallagher intersection and then follow the south side of the development but there will still be a strong connection here with that and how it opens up into the development we're doing this because we don't know when that's going to happen and if we kind of just left this blank we'd say you've done something very underwhelming here so we want to kind of show what it could be in the midterm and how that can function in the midterm but we we've we've thought about that design and how that will interact with that space as it goes forward if I may add um structurally and this isn't on the surface aesthetic but structurally the buildings are designed two stories below ground um the foundation walls to to be able to handle excavation in the future um and that exposure in the future so we are set up to accept it um that's on the west side of France um or excuse me the west side of these buildings along France where you're looking right here looking West at France from the center of our project um there's an underground parking ramp that sits generally in this area if you look at the the footprint of that Underground parking ramp we actually pulled back a big notch in that ramp to allow for the steps to get pulled back into the development to allow proper spacing and um uh a great change uh um along France Avenue for a future potential underpass so um not on the aesthetic side of things but from a uh design uh trying to think the things and all the options and things that might occur in the future we tried to incorporate that flexibility you had a few questions for for you as well James you okay um let's talk about the affordable units and uh thanks for undertaking that responsibility uh are they just going to be scattered throughout the rental buildings and yeah you're noting affirmatively I mean for for the rental units yes um so we it's 10% at 50% Ami is what we're planning to comply with um and then they would be spread across the unit types prata so 10% of three beds 10% of town homes 10% of Studios 10% across the board so we won't load them all into Studios um if that's all right thank you Mr Brahma and will those units um that are spread across types uh all be finished in the same way as the market rate units correct the only caveat that I mentioned on the uh rental apartment side of things the seventh floor of the apartments that we do on our our Apartments uh there is a a SE charge would be on the seventh floor and there's an exclusive amenity room uh up on that seventh floor as well so um if if affordable renters want to pay the SE charge to be on that seventh floor they can so we would offer the same offering to them that we would to anybody else but it's just that extra charge outside of that seventh floor the unit types finishes are all identical there' be no difference between going to a two-bedroom affordable or a two- bed actually I mean it because they're so identical we don't actually pre-program so like it's whatever units available in that 10% range we someone can can go to it's not like you know these are the two-bedroom affordable units they're different and you can only use those ones we don't do that it's just 10% of units available available for affordable across the board same thing true with underground parking underground parking the way that it's treated for the market rate tenants is that there's a charge we do the same thing for the affordable units there's a charge so under the agreement that you'd strike with um affordable housing person they'd be paying for the garage space correct and I would note the rent the base rent for affordable units does deduct utilities so if you anybody goes into the rent tables that are provided by the Metropolitan Council and S sets maximum rental rates I just want to provide the caveat that that what we would charge someone would actually be less um so if it's $1,000 that the Met Council says we can charge we will end up charging 800 or 850 to account for the cost of utilities because that rental rate is meant to be all-encompassing right um I'm going to go back to this height question I had and ask it a little bit different way um why did you decide to stay at seven stories on three of the buildings it it's a building code thing um from the construction type that we have to make the project work seven stories is where we max out it's an economic decision it yeah it's well it's yeah building yep related building yep correct in terms of your Roi okay all right understood uh go back to that closeup of the entry off France please yeah so here's here's one of the First Reactions I had was if I'm walking along the sidewalk on France Avenue a safe sidewalk both my colleagues to the left want to make sure that happens and I think I think we all do uh or I'm coming across if we get this thing put together with the county where people could move and it would be like walking on the promad and you go underneath France aveno use that example and you come up into this area the first feeling I had was I'm walking up sort of tentatively into a private area and it doesn't doesn't feel public to me and I I don't know how as I sat here thinking about it I don't know how to kind of overcome that feeling but I think there's a way to do it and how do you how do you make sure people know that this is a public space it's surrounded by private property but it's a public space how do you how do you do that maybe Mr monar you this is maybe your area where you're you're the landscape guy yeah and that that's definitely a perception thing right everybody sees it differently but I do think the programming and the activation makes it feel more public so the restaurants will feel more public they won't feel private um activation of the lawn the art people can come there for a selfie moment you know this is just a placeholder we don't know what it would be it could be something very unique office space office space is on that commercial level the the restaurants or retail are right on this corner whether it's a comedy club or a restaurant those are on this corner so I think that kind of public activation makes it feel that way and then and then having that open space Lawn isn't really with a type of residents that are here the type of users that are here within this space that feels like more of a private space it's kind of like if you compare compare it to you know the Nordic where they have the lawn area and know their patios and the seating and things like that in the north loop you know that kind of public lawn area surrounded by restaurants feels public it doesn't feel private so I do think that that's where this maybe differs for as you get deeper into the Eastern side it might feel a little more private with residential doors and things like that but it is intended to be a little quieter this is intended to be more public with the types of activation that are on the main level and I and I do think that you know when that underpass happens obviously the freeway walkway you talk about will be hanging on the side of the France bridge and then the more pedestrian will be the one that goes down and goes on bikes will still be able to do that but it'll be more subdued not the commuter kind of aspect um and then that'll have that direct connection again as well so you when I looked at the when you look at the site plan and you look at the buildings on the site plan um from the overhead perspective my first thought was the buildings to the east looked like like uh it looked like part of the Pentagon you know it it just looked it looked dense from a building standpoint but when I see it at the street level it has a different perspective it has a it has a much softer perspective and I have to give you toss you a compliment on you know you've really effectively hidden those amenity decks with with what looks to me like those walkup apartments yeah you talk about what you see from the overhead you don't even see from the street level right and uh you might hear some people up there having a good time and a little splash in the summertime but uh I thought that was uh interesting but the two I'd say a couple of architectural concerns I still have are that uh north wall of the Southwest building that we talked about where you walk by you're in the shadows and that building wall is really tall with no uh Podium effect and then I really think that there's and I I'll back up and say I commend you for trying to recognize that you had four sides of a building you had to deal with I think you did a great job working on three of the sides I think it really fell off on the north side of the two North buildings the Northwest and the Northeast building I feel like I'm coming down France Avenue from the north towards the South and once I get on top of your project I look in it's it's going to look really good but when I'm driving down there it's just going to look like another regular apartment building uh that I'm driving up to on that nor north side and I just it's uninspiring from an architectural standpoint on that north side and you get the parking in there it looks it looks like the back of the building is facing sort of in in an odd way facing France Avenue but because that's what that's what everybody's going to see those 20,000 cars a day or whatever they are they're going to look over there and see something that's not very inspiring if they're coming from the opposite direction they're going to see something that's pretty inspiring but not you that to me is a real let down could you please sure Jackson is going to chime in here too on something that's she's thinking about oh yeah what you were talking about so on the inside that nice thing about the north wall that you talked about the vertical you know maybe that's a great place to project movies sports events those s of things as well kind of some kind of interactive kind of facade to that as well but I do understand what you're saying okay Lucas I'll let you handle the yeah well that's just just know that uh that's an expressed concern um I think those are all the questions I've got for you fellas um look at my little list here um let me check one other thing member pierce it just come conversation caused you to think of anything you wanted to ask at this point in time the um only other question I had really was just related to um financing um we've had a number of developments that um you know we get this far and they're unable to secure the financing and we've got a couple that's asking for extensions those types of things and so just curious for this project uh where do we stay in I'll take the first reply and Mr lousers here representing the Southwest Building for lifestyle but for the other three buildings um so just the timeline on this project we because the timeline is important we're expected to close January of 25 start construction in August or September of 25 so here today in June of 24 we have it lock you know it's not like finalized and I can say Here's the final from the bank and the final equity and everybody's locked up now with all that being said we do this all the time you know we work on projects all the time we're working in the Twin Cities and other areas where we're at in this project um assuming things generally move forward as we're generally proposing we have Equity partners that are are tentatively committing to this um uh Financial Partners lenders that are are are tentatively committing to this the performers work based on the requests that we're making and the project that we're proposing which is part of the reasons for the seven stories and they like we're trying to balance everything you know there's there's all these you know a lot of requests that are kind of on the outside looking in but then on the inside for us looking at the numbers we're trying to balance all the requests with making sure it pencils and a big part of that too is when we do go back and get our appraisal and work with our Equity partners and financial institutions the first thing they're going to do is want to make sure that you're not spending too much to the point that it's going to be INF feasible it's you know or not cash flow properly um so we're running the analysis now in detail we feel comfortable with where we're at actually I mean I feel as confident about being able to make this project work as we do any other project we're in a strong position um so uh where we're at today I you know as good as you can um barring variables but Mr louser yeah good evening mayor and Council Ben landhauser lifestyle communities 4938 Lincoln Drive e dyam Minnesota representing the Southwest mixed use building uh similar to what Patrick just outlined I'd give you confidence that our team is collectively pretty bullish on just the pent up demand for owner occupied product in this area of the 40 5,000 square ft of office we have proposed we have a single tenant that's already committed to 35,000 of that space uh and we also know in working with similar um uh consultants in jll that there's additional demand for the the remaining space here in this project so we're we're feeling like we're we've right sized it we're not overkilling it we'll probably have more demand than what we have to provide which is a good thing in our market and similarly all of our investors and financers are kind of behind this project at at what we have to offer kind of for where we are here and now I may add one run on comment to BR go ahead thank you mayor um the Northwest building if you were tracking along the original Pro proposal to the current the original proposal was 100% office a big reason why we switched it out to what it is today is for flexibility and that flexibility is built all around being able to perform that's the main reason why we have it buil out the way that we do if if we are successful with leasing we we have I mean we we don't want to get overly excited and commit uh and not be able to follow through but there's a lot of Demand on that Northwest site for more office and we're excited to bring those tenants forward and see what we can get together and hopefully we can Flex into something that has even greater commercial use um but a big part of the strategy here is to make sure it is financially feasible and making sure we're following in the parameters that we know our lenders and Equity Partners require thank you you know uh ESG knows this Mr monar knows this but the reason we kind of probe the way we do is because uh we represent our town our town is in a development business with you and so if we're in this together uh and we we reach we we we think that we can do something together and that's to be determined yet uh we want it to be the best it can be because it's going to be here for a hundred years for you and for our people in our town so we just we deliberate about it and we're careful and thoughtful about it and um um and now we're going to I think we're we're done asking questions oh remember rer had one question then I think we open it up for public test just on the financing it is really hard to hear that this is something that will require Tiff it is a lot that is right next to Centennial Lakes it is adjacent to the prominade it's out of the flood zone it is a prime piece of Edina real estate and when we Tiff we take money and we cap it and all of the additional expenses for fire for police for Public Works that is not covered okay um and you can say okay yeah well the base rate you're going to get something but you're adding stress and you're adding cost and then that ends up having to be shouldered by the property taxes and we have people who are on fixed incomes and they're seeing their property taxes rise year after year so if you can avoid Tiff financing that would really be a good thing all right well you you all understand this has nothing to do with Tiff tonight this has to do with a potential site plan approval that's that's a question we'd address Downstream somewhere maybe maybe maybe not to member resarch Point all right uh thank you you yeah stand by there maybe some questions when we get done with public testimony here and virtually so folks this is a public hearing matter uh I'm going to open it up for public testimony uh if you remember way back when at uh about 5: to 7 director benro said that if you choose to testify tonight you'll have three minutes uh and um we like to treat everybody that wants to testify the same so you'll get a yellow warning light when you got about 30 seconds left and then uh try to be uh cognizant of that and wrap up your comments when you see the red light go on or as soon thereafter as you can and I'll I'll try to help you with that a little bit if you run over too long but uh try to hold it to the three minute Mark if you can and then we'll be able to get everybody's testimony in so um come on forward if you wish to testify yay or nay on this project we're happy to hear your your thoughts I hope you can hear me through my mask thank you Lori grz 5513 Park Place I attended many many many of the Southdale design work group meetings that were led by Mick Johnson at the last 15 minutes of each meeting they had opportunity for the public to ask questions so at one of them Mick Johnson they opened it up for questions and I asked Miss Mick Johnson okay so if you're going to be having interior roads Pathways walkways public realm who's going to pay for this developers aren't going to want to pay for this is this going to be paid for using Tiff his response to me was no he says what the city will do in exchange for the interior your roads and the public realm on the inside the developer will get a Chang in zoning they'll get PUD or the term that Mr Teague likes to use a lot of flexibilities so it was going to be a trade and it wasn't going to be a burden on the taxpayers and they're saying 45% of this Premier Property is going to be public realm and so that means you better open up the Vault because they're going to put both hands in looking for money and you may say well it's only going to be for 25 years well take a look and ask Richfield what they thought about it with the Best Buy sight after 25 years Best Buy came to the city and said our property isn't worth anything anymore more we're not renting out our space there is no need for office space we need a big reduction so you can't count on it what's coming what I see is public here I mean what's a benefit it's benefit for the tenants that live there that interior space as a public person would I go there no uh-uh France Avenue is a busy street people go down France or going to their stores they've got their cars they're doing their groceries they're not going to stop inside there it's going to look like a concrete jungle have any of you looked at the um project that they did at Lin view on I think at 65th in Lindale my husband and I are regular Shoppers at the lak winds Co-op which is kind of kitty corner from it so we watched that as they were building it and there would be weeks that would go by sometimes months that would go by and there wouldn't be any work on the project and one time my husband said to me when they do have people working did you ever notice they never have a full crew he says I don't think they've got enough money for a full crew and for materials they have they're they're completed now it's right on the sidewalk they're balconies if somebody wants to drop a water balloon off the balcony girls need do you have your wrap up okay all right um their retail isn't least you could shoot a cannon through it and so please don't do this to this Premier space it's Val Val the property and have a little bit more respect please for the taxpayers I'm sorry I took so much time thank you thank you m gr thank you for giving me the extra time you're welcome hello Judy Buckley I live at 806 Coventry place in Adina thank you for this hearing and in general I definitely support Redevelopment especially for this area area Macy's definitely is not the best use of it however this design does not recognize how special the space is I do not believe that the prad is best utilized or enhanced by what I've seen here tonight the greater Southdale District plan states that it encourages Innovation imagination and democracy to reach Beyond current conditions to create an extraordinary place and remarkable daily experience the new kais is exactly that however I do not believe that the Macy's development plan at this point measures up to the vision of the Southdale Design District guidelines regardless of what goes into this plot of land the southeast corner of the development is the most excuse me critical transition point it's the least commercial area it's on the prominade 9M Creek Regional Trail it leads into Centennial Lakes Park as well as the areas where people own their homes the southeast corner should have the largest setback possible and be the most welcoming of the entire complex and right now it's claustrophobic thirdly and in conclusion responsible stewardship of our precious Green Space new developments land use changes and code variants are vitally important as we only have one opportunity to get it right I really appreciated when you said this is going to be here for a hundred years because I feel that you feel what I'm feeling about that as an a diner homeowner who lives next to this project I ask the city council to ensure that the city follows the Southdale design guidelines without variances before approving a project please ask yourself if the final design truly achieves the declared vision of transitioning these special 8 acres into an extraordinary place that makes a remarkable daily experience thanks for your time thank you m brookley Julie lamble I live at 313 Coventry Lane in Adina hello councilman Jackson um I've lived in ad for 27 years and now being in in fact I taught my kids to ice skate at Centennial Lakes now being in Coventry Lane uh we moved there because it's walkable my husband has one Blind Eye walks with a cane and I just am looking forward to the future I walk the prominade almost every day all the way from Coventry up to Target to the gallery and sometimes to Southdale I ride my bicycle on the prominade lane to get up to my doctor's appointment so I'm a user it looks to me like the idea of fingers and connectivity are great the idea of a useful development great but if you're connecting to something and you're destroying that something what's the point the setbacks that are proposed the look of these massive blocks it completely destroys the prominade what makes the prominade special is not just the land which you can measure in feet and setbacks but it's the light and the air and the sound of that water trickling when they've got the stream going and the sound of the children laughing when they're looking at the duck LS that used to to nest in that pond it's knowing that you can go on a nice day throw in your backpack and go get your hair done or go to Target to pick up your prescriptions or if you make it so that it is another Bower another instance where we're staring into somebody Ed the word Canyon that's not helpful all the amenities in the world and I love amenities but all the amenities in the world are useful to us if we lose the amenity of the light and the air and the green or in the winter the snow if all we have is concrete that is the impression we'll be left with so no variation in the current setbacks please no impairment of the aesthetic with a wall of development and um let's let's think about that next 100 Years thank you thank you m Campbell May huband uh council members my name is Peter Bell I live at 800 Coventry place I appreciate the opportunity to present to you uh some concerns that I have regarding the proposal that is being uh presented to you to you tonight um as I'm I live at 800 Coventry place and when I first moved there um I describe that to friends of mine as you know I've moved to Mayberry this is just a wonderful place uh frankly imagine my horror when I heard we're going to have a a comedy club possibly and in in what I considered one of the most tranquil lovely spots in the Twin Cities area you can really look at my concerns about this project with two things and I'll be brief one is the scale of the project and many people have talked about that scale in a number of different ways and I know that uh that uh I sat on the board of a bank for a number of years so I understand that you need to uh to make the project work financially but the scale of it uh to me is much too large for the community that it will be a part of when you look at Coventry Place uh the nearest home to Coventry Place uh is about an eighth of a mile from this uh development and I think that that is a major concern and the second concern and the final concern of mine is the cost viability of this um I still do a great deal in in uh in real estate I'm on the board of a real estate company here in the Twin Cities uh area and so I am very very familiar with the uh real estate rental market here for commercial property for restaurants um for for apartments and the like and uh I also know how banks operate and the the viability of this project the cost viability of this project is a concern of mind because if this doesn't work we are all going to have a huge huge headache uh unwinding what would have been uh proposed thank you thank you Mr Bill good evening good evening mayor havland and city council and staff my name is Martha Griner I live at 309 Coventry Lane Edina my close proximity uh to living at Centennial Lakes in the Coventry Town Homes allows me to walk the promenad and uh Olive Centennial Lakes several times daily it's the crown jewel of not only Edina City Parks but I would venture to say of the Twin Cities Park system it's it's remarkable when I consider the scope of what you're proposing for developing the former Macy's site it seems to me that Centennial Lakes the beauty the Tranquility of so many visitors who come I talk to people people every single day down there who have come from all over to enjoy this beautiful Park it's going to be dwarfed by a concrete jungle I don't think the Macy's site is the appropriate place all due respect mayor havin to you wanting to increase the height of one of the buildings or several of them I think it's already way too to way too dense in what you have proposed at this meeting I would like to ask you to all reconsider the size and the scope of what you are trying to do with this precious unique space thank you very much thank you m grer evening hi good evening I'm Michelle langenfelds I live at 802 Coventry place in Idina thank you for allowing me to speak mine are my comments are very off the cuff um thinking them out in the way here but I've been thinking about this project since it came up and I I know it's very important for us to all be here and to be able to speak what we're thinking I too live very close proximity even though I work full-time I often walk the prominade um once or twice a day I run errands down that way I walk my little dog so I'm on it all the time into the winter often um I agree with what my um Folks at cry have been saying this project is way too big it's too dense um it's not the right look for the area my husband and I lived at Centennial Lakes in the um in the condominiums in the 90s and we love the area and we started to see the beautiful development that was occurring and so in our retirement my husband isn't here today but he's retired and we he said the only place I want to go back and live is at Coventry at Centennial Lakes because of the beauty my neighbor Peter says we live in a garden but that will not be a garden any longer if you put this monstrosity in the area it's it is a wonderful place like um our my fellow um Coventry neighbor has said is that a lot of people are there from all over the all over many countries come there to enjoy the park and when you add all of that density and more traffic have any of you tried to get out of that little street from pinstripes on to France Avenue it backs up into the the Pinstripes parking lot I don't think the density um has been reviewed very well for the traffic it is so thick if I can walk I walk because I personally don't want to get out into the traffic around the area um the other thing to consider is the west side of Edina is in dire need of amenities I lived over by the high school in a home and raised my two children there and that's the area that we need to be looking at for more amenities for the community not plopping a huge development where it is one of the best prettiest parks that we have and I just hope that you really strongly consider changing the vision for that area to lower density um shorter buildings definitely not taller the one apartment building that's on the prominade has already Feels So Close and now you're going to be putting two big buildings on there again and it's just it's it's going to it's it's going to take away from that so thank you for listening appreciate the time yes thank you could get it good evening hi I'm Jeannie Kosar and I'm at 7200 York Avenue South number 226 and I have to say thank you for the opportunity but I have to Echo the thoughts and feelings of the people here I've lived in the Edina area were within 1,000 ft for 10 years I've walked Centennial Lakes and the prominade for 20 years it's a jewel it's a gem as well as the 9M Trail and when you go from east to west as I was walking last night my vision of an 11-story building and taking away that light and the fact that there wouldn't be light in that area is very distressing and that's what people want to walk and we need distance between any development that is there it is so close and I cannot believe and even when you walk past the bower or Berle you never see anyone on the first floor patios and you hardly see them on the patios or the balconies because they're bubbled balconies I don't get the concept when single family homes you usually have privacy fences and these balconies are sitting out there you have no protection against against weather um against wind or against sun or shadows and I think I agree that whatever is developed in that area needs to be a lower scale a smaller scale and to fit in and enhance and embrace the green gem that is there thank you thank you thank you Miss Kar change the zoom on this good evening mayor and council members my name is Steve Brown I live at 5528 Halifax Lane I'm going to change the tone of the conversation quite a bit from what we've just been listening to though I do want to start uh with kind of an emotional point which is that I uh represent an organization called the neighbors for affordable housing which has the awful acronym of Ena but Ena also stands for everybody needs a home and I want to have people keep that in mind we heard a lot of people talk about how they love their current home and all the reasons why it's so great please keep in mind that other people also need a home so I don't know if you can see this chart but I want to try to EXP explain it to you what I'm looking at here what you're looking at is uh a record of how we're doing on building new affordable housing units the scale here is units on the leftand side and then the years go along the bottom of the scale and it's pretty obvious that there wasn't a whole lot of activity for a decade and there was little activity and then for the latest comprehensive plan period you can see there's quite a bit of activity this Council has done a wonderful job recognizing that people need places to live and that's not a unique situation in dinina it's true everywhere at the same time this blue line right here represents the goal that the city has set for itself of trying to build 180 new affordable units per year right now we're falling short of that goal and frankly we've been starting to slip away from some of the progress that we made uh back in 2023 you can see we had a really strong year in 2024 we're dropping back down to about 48 units versus a goal of 180 units and right now for 2025 we have zero units that's in part because some of the projects have fallen by the wayside 5100 Eden Avenue apparently is on hold so at the moment we have a challenge this chart has a totally different scale this number here is two these are the units that are ownership units and you can see we've built very few ownership affordable units and in the time period representing the comp plan we've built none this project has five so in essence we're going to build more units in one project than we've built in the last five years so I think there's some reasons to support this project I've listed a lot of those in an email that sent you but I do want you to keep in mind that everybody needs a home thank you Mr Brown anyone else and I'll think about it for a minute uh we can go online and see if we've got anybody no I mean our our Comm communications director is just despondent that no one's calling in oh our traffic consult our traffic consultant is available for any questions yeah that's a good thought uh question I think it was just raised here with some of the public testimony was how are you going to manage traffic in and out on Gallagher with all of that housing activity so that was one question question that came up and then I think member rer might remember what she had in mind too um for the traffic consultant that I think U director Milner did a pretty effective job of answering it but he might get confirmation from the traffic consultant yes hey can you guys hear me my microphone working yes go ahead Miss Fitzpatrick go ahead did you hear what we were talking about yeah yeah so uh Milner did address the first comment that I heard um in regards to the traffic on Gallagher um when we did look at existing traffic data we look at existing AM and PM weekday traffic um is in that area uh but during the weekday coming out of that access it's actually pretty low um we're looking at maybe 50 vehicles in the AM PE hour coming out of there and maybe uh 200 in the PM PE hour which isn't that many vehicles per minute if you look at it so again most of our traffic will be using this access especially anyone turning left out of the site um but our peak hours and peak days are going to be during the weekday and TM not during the weekends especially with the office use there won't be any any trips from that um and much less trips from the residential during week weekends all right did that prompt any question or comments from uh council members m m Fitzpatrick it might be good if we have you available in a couple weeks too because there may be questions from Council Members director teag can you ever when we when we go to make a decision on this yeah anyway member Jackson yes thank you um so uh director Teague you probably know the answer to this but how many stories is the [Music] bower the bower is 18 stories 18 stories okay thank you and while we're on that topic maon green kitty corner here is that that's seven isn't it we just having a sidebar we thought it was seven sounds right all right and then how tall is the uh 71 France the lens barle yeah those are six stories with the I believe there's that half story Above So six to seven okay all right um council members did the testimony uh cause anybody to have a question for staff or for the applicant not hearing anything so I'm just looking at my notes too here yes so go ahead member um the comment about light um really resonated and I was walking along the prominade and actually was able to talk to somebody who is a volunteer helping with the plantings and what was really interesting is to you know see all these plantings that we have put in that rely on Direct sunlight and changing the envir the environment really looks like it could be changed quite a bit we may need to even switch out some of those plantings along the prominade and there's the cost of that and there's also the reality that right now the pump for the water features is completely broken so or apparently it needs to be fixed or something but um it's sort of quiet and sad and dry along the prominade because that feature is not up and running and I just you know thinking about financing and you know we've talked about this project is sustainable but um fiscal sustainability is also really important thank you thank you um director te what's a setback on the east side of this project from the uh boundary of the prominade remember the north building is 34 feet and I believe the south building is 40 feet from the boundary line of the prominade any architect verification on that 35 ft from the West edge of the prominant okay all right um now what director Teague is recommending is that uh we close the inperson public hearing keep the public input uh option open until Sunday June 9th and then continue the action to the June 18 2024 city council meeting is there a motion to that effect by one of our council members so mov second member Pierce moves member Jackson seconds that we uh close the inperson public Hearing in this matter keep the public input option open until Sunday June 9th and continue the action on this matter to the June 18 2024 city council meeting uh any further discussion on the motion as stated all those in favor of adoption of the motion is stated say I I I opposed carried motion passes and we will take this matter up uh you know int inputting that additional public testimony that might come in uh at our June 18 2023 meeting thank you to everybody for being here and um Mr Bell did were you here for the presentation from your old group I was I was quite impressed quite proud with it yeah so there's the man who used to run the Met Council right in front of us here just I think we've got a a Salto L team meeting and I think when we first started that effort you were still running the Met Council that's when it started so all right thanks couple of planning conferences years and years ago okay what else do we have to do as the uh Chambers clears uh that concludes the public hearing portion of the agenda we Mo on the on the reports and recommendations and the first matter we have there is um resolution accepting donations and we have some very nice donations this uh reporting period is there a motion to adopt uh resolution 202442 accepting donations on behalf of the city of Viana so moved second jaction moves member U seconds the adoption of resolution 202442 accepting donations on behalf of the city of Viana any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of resolution 202442 uh accepting ations on behalf of the city of atanta say I I I opposed carried resolution 202442 is adopted uh as I mentioned there were some real generous gifts uh to the uh City in the park and wreck and Centennial Lakes Park this reporting period Park and wwise Curry MHO $3,200 for Memorial bench at Pamela Park Betsy Schneider for uh Memorial bench at Walnut Ridge Park the same amount $200 over at Centennial Lakes Park and I'm sure many people have seen that golden retriever uh sculpture piece over there done by Nick leros that Dennis schad sponsored and now Dennis has given us another $10,000 in memory of his deceased wife uh for Centennial Lakes Park landscaping flowers and maintenance very generous gift on his part uh and then um Annette uh V and Mick Elder another $3,200 for Memorial bench at Centennial Lakes Park so um that uh that's the report out on the donations that were made as I said during this reporting period and now we have um resolution 202 24-21 director teag has this matter as well we need to discuss a potential extension of the final site plan approval for Lots 1 through3 block One amn Edition that's 771 France 3601 and 3 6 257th Street director Teague thank you mayor members of council so on June 21st of 2022 the council approve final site plans for those three sites that were mentioned this is the Orion and Mortenson devel mixed use development the first phase of that project has been constructed that's the the smaller site the US Bank uh but the remaining three sites have gone undeveloped site plans are good for two years um by city code so these will expire June 21st of this year um developers haven't been able to secure their financing due to current market conditions therefore are requesting a one-year extension of their site plans they believe that they'll be able to uh construct or at least pull a building permit within the next year um so staff is recommending that the council adopt the resolution 20 2441 granting the one-year extension and um representatives of the development team are here to answer any questions that you may have good council members have any questions for director Teague or any of the development team M member Jackson uh yes I'd love to hear an update on on what you're hearing about this site thought as maybe as well as 7250 might get an update on that one well good evening U council members Ted Carlson with or Investments um and Dan ler with mortson uh development is here with me along with Drew Stafford from Orion so thank you for taking time to catch up with us tonight you know we uh we had very good traction on the project and then if you really read the headlines and see what has happened in the financing markets they just simply evaporated on us and with the rise in mortgage rates that um um really shut down the lending market for commercial development um you know for all intents and purpose purposes Banks and traditional Equity sources have been sidelined and um you've seen it not just with us on this project which we still firmly believe in but on projects not only across the city but across the Twin Cities and um throughout the country so we still believe in the design we believe in the programming we believe in the team and we're requesting um from you tonight an opportunity for another 12 months to put a shovel on the ground thank you Mr Carlson you following member Jackson yes so you believe in it and do are the investors believing in it and you know it's the I think there was some Rumblings about maybe changing some of the design that the design will stay the same and you're working on getting financing put together is that yeah I I would say that the financing Market is starting to show signs of Life what we need in the commercial Market is transactions and whether they're good or bad trans action proves that there's a market to be head and that's starting to happen you're starting to see headlines with projects selling um and there's still a real flight to Quality for office occupiers we watched the earlier testimony and there was some concern and consternation but with our project it's designed to accommodate smaller users and smaller tenants in a different modern scale where police people want to work they want to live and they want to be a part of the community and there's a lot of thoughtful um time and effort that went into that design and program programming so um yeah we believe that the demand is the demand is there the financing piece is not there and it's starting to show signs of life okay terrific thank you Mr lesser would you come on up too I want to I think member Pierce has a question maybe for Mr Carlson but I I think getting Morton's perspective on it too that's you know doing work on a nationwide basis and um and you're here this evening because they obviously care about this project and the future of this project and and you'd like to have your perspective as well but let me turn to member Pierce F first to see if he had a question you wanted to ask no I think my question actually you can each answer um and it's really just based on whatever your view is so if you're going to give us your Market view my question is what's our confidence factor that within a year's time that we are actually ready and confident that we can put a shovel in the ground I'll go Dan ler with Morton development 700 metal Lane Golden Valley uh thank you Council and Mr Mayor we do work across the country um we are seeing Signs of Life with not just financing but going vertical um Seattle um that's happening now and typically we lag a little bit and that's okay um but those transactions need to happen Capital needs to go out and then it gets a little more competitive there and they start to go back to the places that they were 2 3 4 years ago um the transaction piece uh Mr Carlson talked about is near and dear to me um one of my first highres was for Mark downtown and that just sold for half of what we built it for almost 10 years ago um so good or bad those transactions need to happen because there's appetite for our market and they need to run out of options to purchase at half price and that's what we're seeing right now is a lot of that churn so when and you're a confidence Factor um fairly to vary is that fair um I I don't like percentages um the conversations are starting to come back and that's that's actually what gives me confidence is people that we were talking to a year two years three years ago about this project specifically are calling back saying where's that project did you still have it did you actually close on the land and I think our confidence Factor as Mortenson is high because we bought the land we have patients and we have the means for those patients yeah thanks for saying that down I think it goes a long way when you've got a partner like mortson that made a $12 million investment just in dirt and that's a testament to the community the project and their financial prowess and stay in power so to answer the question council member Pierce I think the finance Market's a lot better today than it was 12 to 18 months ago and continues to improve um so I I'm also confident that we will mow the boulevard more which we did today so I just wanted to get that out there too right before the rain head yeah of the remaining projects which do you anticipate moving forward first um within this project and the west side of France brick um I think we've got the west side of France 7250 France I think there's a 5050 chance if not I like to be a little conservative to uh maintain some sanity in this market but I think there's a really good chance that we get going vertical in 7250 yet this year uh just for the site that we're talking about right now of the parking lot the luxury apartment complex and the office building which one do you see moving for with more potential um I I think that the demand for high quality office space continues to increase on a daily basis Centennial Lakes has maintained incredible occupancy um you may have read that Normandale Lakes um has some landlord challenges now so that's 1.9 million square fet of potentially unhappy tenants as soon as Dan and Drew and I can get the capital markets to loosen up um we'll be ready and to further answer that question you we were 40% pre-leased on the office retail piece and even with that which was record setting in our Market um um when liquidity came to an end with traditional and non-traditional debt Equity sources we just simply can't move forward thank you gentlemen other questions from Council Members all right um director Teague and the applicants are yes stand by here uh we pass a motion to approve resolution 202 24-410 the final site plan approval for 7,1 France 3601 and 3625 70th Street for one year is there a motion to that effect so moved Jackson moves second M appear seconds uh the adoption of resolution 2024 41 which should extend extend the final site plan approval for 7,1 France 3601 and 3625 7th Street for one year uh any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of resolution 2024413044 I opposed carried motions approved thank you gentlemen thanks for being here tonight Mr Stafford I'm trying to remember did you ever play for Edmonton or Florida I can't remember all right um we are down to the last uh item of the evening from a action standpoint um and that is ordinance uh 20244 that's the tree protection ordinance and uh we've had a work session and Council discussion and meetings with many folks in the community that are concerned about um tree protection I think everybody has heard of say everybody's concerned about tree protection and the question is whether we overreached a bit on our ordinance and um might we do some things and and one area that I think we didn't we didn't think about uh carefully was the undeveloped lot and we there aren't that many in need I suspect that's why we didn't give it that much consideration because we're mostly concerned about terter on rebuild but there are some undeveloped Lots uh any Dina and um and through our discussion I think uh staff has figured out a way that they can deal with some of these things so uh director Teague is going to take this matter as well and I don't know if manager Neil has any thoughts he wanted to express your on top of it but thank you honor coule things to say um one of the goals we had uh during the work session where we previously discussed some some Council initiated changes to this ordinance was that you wanted to see them and at least consider them for adoption as soon as possible so in order to do that as soon as possible we had to act pretty quickly and we had to get an ordinance put together and then get it uh publicized or posted for a 10-day notice which which and we did that that enables you to take a look at it tonight that means that there were some things that we had some discussion on that aren't included in this ordinance because we didn't sense that there was consensus on Council um to to the to the extent that we needed to put it in the agenda to put it into the ordinance tonight we can adopt this ordinance you can amend this ordinance the items that are in the ordinance um but but because of the timeline we're on we do not recommend uh adding adding new content to the ordinance as it is anything new we would need to adopt in a in an additional ordinance consideration down the line maybe soon but not tonight y so you're thinking about the circumstance where we might want to consider a variance process or some kind of undue hardship process that's a great example right take take that and and work on that later right because that wasn't we didn't feel there was consensus for that that's not included in what was posted um so we shouldn't add that to the ordinance but we can add it to a new version of a new ordinance so in terms of the uh let's I'm just going use this by way of example the financial guarantee on the last last page on paragraph 15 if we wanted to have a discussion about the maximum cash escrow or letter credit amount that that could be done tonight the amount or the methodology yes that's right um thoughts from Council Members member U I'll get us kicked off um so overall just want to thank um staff for the quick turnaround on this I know you know we obviously have some concerned residents and some key PE like land uh components that are up and impacted by this so I appreciate how quickly we are able to move um the only one that I do want to have well I'll discuss any of them the one I'm most uh passionate about is number 15 paragraph 15 um the maximum cash escrow or letter of credit shall be $50,000 um so I have two thoughts on this um one is that for the time being we could strike this and the reason for that is because today the the two properties I believe that are driving the highest escrow amount are those that are on the unbuilt lot and so they will if we're just thinking about like stopping the bleeding right now they will be I think looking to staff to confirm this but I think that they will be um they'll see some relief um from that phase of our work or the update to the ordinance and that will allow us to maybe have some more analysis and try and figure out what that right spot is um I'm more of the opinion that it it should maybe be a percentage basis I would throw out right like something like 5% um just based off of some of the data that I was able to collect from the city um 5% of the um future home home price of what is being constructed on that site um but again I I think that that's one just kind of an idea that you're all just being hit with which is why I might say strike it for tonight and then bring something back here in the form of some type of Maximum that could be um have more analysis applied to it okay thanks for those thoughts um other thoughts on that Financial guarantee issue well member Pierce go ahead and then we'll go to member Jackson did you did you guys want to respond to that you were huddling I have thoughts on another um verbage verbage that I would like to have not added okay so I I actually was talking to manager Neil were you guys huddling on that or something else okay all right um so the the I would would just want to validate first CU I think uh member Anu is correct um that the immediate issues would be addressed with the unbuilt lot um information that's in here criteria that's in here so I just want to uh somebody to knot their head I see a nod there um if that is the case um I think it actually would be wise to uh strike that and then take the time um to really just you know maybe think through it a little bit more maybe run a few more scenarios to um um just come back with something that is more um I'll say more concrete um if that makes sense so I I actually agree with that if we are addressing the given that we are addressing the major um issues that have been raised um so that was one um the I like the I am glad that we do have in here the unbuilt lot that criteria um and so thanks for that and then the only one that I had questions on and I think I understand this is um the plantings and so there was a you we had a number of questions around um if the homeowner owner is still responsible for the plantings do the plantings have to be on the property and the new homeowner may not want those trees on the property um and so I'm interpreting this correctly the city will now control where those plantings can happen and they can happen throughout the city am I interpreting that correctly I don't think this amendment covers that on page four number 14 page number 14 here so the uh you know the the intent is that now uh as opposed to the the current uh way the ordinance is written all the required trees must be planted on that that address yeah this would allow for trees to go on neighboring properties um one of the thoughts we had is that you know before any of these construction projects start for the you know uh you know demo new home rebuild uh you're required to send a letter out to all your neighbors to inform them of there's a new home going in here you have to schedule a meeting with all your neighbors to inform them there's a new home going here uh we were thinking that that radius that's already currently used for that would be perhaps an appropriate radius for those plantings to go in for that project okay so still you know on that that same street be like yeah whatever I think you know kind of expanding the space correct okay um that's the intent yep got it um so I think that makes sense one of the things and I get where manager Neil is coming from in terms of not making changes here um I'm actually okay with that but I would actually put it in the same comment as before I mean taking some time to make sure that that we're getting the right outcome that we want from whatever changes we have in here I think we should be doing that because the when I think about this one I actually like the idea of taking those those funds and then the city deciding where we need to replant those trees um I kind of like that in concept because there might be other areas within the city where we want to try to add some tree canopy um and so the question though that I have is if we do that then who's responsible for making sure that those trees survive so in in uh that case you know as you read in there be it'd be at the the city's disc discretion and so um it's you know the the Builder or the you know homeowner's responsibility to work with their you know neighbor when when they're uh you know working on a project to plant it on the adjacent property owner property um and uh currently I haven't had any projects you know that we've gone through where you know I would want to take a tree from someone's property and plant it on on city property but as you said um instead I I would much prefer to use those funds to fund things like the the residential tree sale and you know other planting projects throughout the city that we are you know just doing with our normal um kind of uh you know uh upgrades and and and projects that we do um as as we're redoing a park or something like that so in this case that actually doesn't change then so the homeowner would still be or the Builder or the permit holder whoever whomever is the applicant because we really are thinking it's going to be within a couple of lots I'm I'm just using that as hypothetically you're not actually taking a tree from Kill and moving it to um uh to uh Brar as an example we're not doing that so I believe you know technically the way it's written that would be possible like I said uh you know one of the thoughts is like you know something goes out with that letter that goes out upon the initial you know kind of U Annunciation of the project and then you know that would be you know but but still the way it's written it could go anywhere within the city limits within the city limits okay thanks I would like the at the very beginning um it says this division applies to and then the words have been added the following permits and land use applications on properties that are zoned R1 and R2 so basically what this is doing is saying for commercial R3 R4 anything that's not R1 or R2 the tree ordinance does not apply and I would like to have that highlighted text stricken because I think I thought we were dealing with that separately that would be part of that that next step where this is on the E's work plan to come forward with a with a commercial tree preservation ordinance but there's more zones than just R1 R2 and commercial but there were there in every other Zone other than R1 or R2 my understanding is that they're working on something to propose to us that would cover tree protection in those zoning districts I believe we don't have to do it we don't have to do it here it's coming they report is done they just want the opportunity to present their findings to the city council and they don't want to be short changed on the work that they done so they're coming back with ordinance suggestions that would meet all the other zones all the other uh zoning areas and staff supported a lot of the work that they've already done so I think this is going to be tied directly to this residential one at some point but they want an opportunity to present to the council and it's not only commercial that they're covering this is going to be comprehensive you can ask them when they bring their report but that's my understanding well just clarify that though so I was thinking now that this was just um like it could read this is just for a residential ordinance for tree protection and then there would be a commercial one for tree protection that's coming correct okay yeah but okay we're that's what I'm hearing but I it's like we're having this conversation that but what about industrial what about our three our it's going to be all in the commercial but I think I think director Milner's point is that let's not cut off this commission from the work that they're doing and short stop them by just sort of knee-jerk deciding tonight we're going to include all these other zones zoning code designations Without Really knowing what we're doing either do we have R3 and R4 we don't have an R3 or R4 but we have a PRD three four two um we would the message that I'm hearing is this would just apply to R1 and R2 and we'll have to work with the eec to make sure that all those other zoning districts are covered thanks for raising that issue on coming back go ahead member Jack thank you Mr Mayor so I have a couple of functional questions and then I have content questions so the first one is just a general question when we adopt a new Ordinance do we have a public hearing or no we don't we have public notice in the zoning ordinance chapter 36 we have public hearings but outside of that we do not this is chapter 10 okay good thank you for that um then my second question is in the way this uh ordinance functions if someone decides they don't want to plant any trees the any of these changes don't change the fee that they would pay is that correct so if they say there's one tree it's you know just fits this size it's a $33,000 cost they say I don't want to deal with a tree I pay $33,000 none of the changes that we make tonight will change that is that correct correct okay great well the cap is 50,000 but but would the fee cap at 20 50,000 as well that's my question so if you you have six old oak trees you clearcut it it's $100,000 your fee would be capped at 50,000 or you could use the example of the guy we just had with us who had 45,000 in escrow and he says nobody wants that new owner doesn't want new trees I think under this language that money would be defaulted into the into the city right and then Luther would decide where he wants to spend the money you know buy trees and put them somewhere right but my question is with the cap the fee is also capped if the escrow is capped at 50,000 then the fee is capped at 50,000 okay um so then I like member agu idea of not addressing that tonight um the yeah let's talk about that a little bit more too because when I if you take out that last sentence that that defs us to the language that exists right now which is that then somebody would pay uh 110% is that what it is well it's it's a it's a fee based on the size tree that's um being removed which could exceed $50,000 which could exceed $50,000 but I believe the ones that were really expensive were these wooded Lots yeah but we've got more wooded Lots we've got more issues like that coming I'm sure I know of one right now where they're trying to subdivide a lot on Mohawk is full of trees so to me the question is and that's not covered by the change of the unbuilt lot it would be but they'd still be subject to the potential cap or this other formula for the trees that aren't in the exempt zone right well I don't know I haven't seen the haven't seen they got this exemption for this uh area uh that's shown in paragraph six the building pad the deck patio 5 foot radius of the driveways insulation of infrastructure that's all kind of an exempt Zone but anything outside of that if they want to take trees down they're going to be subject to the financial requirements which will be C that and that's that gets to the cap issue do we still want to think in that circumstance about what having a cap that is correct uh mayor members of the council uh what is before you this evening is a $50,000 cap um you did talk about the relief that an unbuilt or previously undeveloped lot would have we do not know what that um reduction or impact would be until those permit applications look back at what this new ordinance would be and find out from what they're proposing where that 10t radius offset would be where that 5ot radius offset would be that we're adding to the language to then recalculate what that would be so we do know that there would be relief we do not know how much at this point so I just want to be clear on that that I couldn't tell you tonight if it was the $81,000 escrow what that would go down to this evening we would have to work with that permit applicant to resubmit and look at what that exemption would be thank you M Jackson is your concern that the 50 thousand cap there could be a scenario where we're taking out trees that are higher in value and we can't replace them my concern is creating a perverse incentive that if you're going to take out three trees that are you know the Heritage tree that's $50,000 right there and there are but you want to clearcut it and make a great big house and there are seven Big Trees on that lot so you pay 50,000 to take out three you pay 50,000 to take out seven and we lose those additional four Heritage trees and I've seen that happen and I drove by several Lots on the way here this evening kind of counting the oak trees say yep that one would you know potentially be could be clearcut with a minimal well not minimal $50,000 is a lot of money but I just don't want to create that perverse incentive to well I have to pay this much anyways why not clearcut the lot okay um and that's my concern Mayors and Council I did um we are not proposing it this evening based on what manager Neil had indicated about the public notice period for the changes we recommend to the ordinance however one of the things we did discuss is more of a an idea of a progressive escrow would you like to see some examples yes certainly I might need help fing this up so or switching it over uh mayor and Council we did work on two examples for you just to kind of show you of where we could go I kind of go back to the default I always say it'd be great to have a quick no or a long yes on this so if it's something you're not interested it would be good to know we don't have to um pursue that any longer but these are just quick examples of what um the current the very rudimentary example of what the current example is so this is um a removal calculation and again there's two categories there's the protected tree and the Heritage Tree by uh definition um in this scenario if you look in this um portion right here um this is the caliper inches removed so again that's not the number of trees that's the cumulative inches of removal uh this is the replacement percentage so again a protected tree is valued at 75% of those caliper inches but a Heritage tree is 100 uh we also looked at in this this evening that that maximum escrow was at $50,000 so in this scenario um this would be a fictitious lot where they removed 102 in of a protected tree 542 of a Heritage tree for 131 total inches after you do the formula very rudimentary there's more to it in this um that uh property elected to replace 57 in of of trees back on the lot so under that scenario their total escrow would be $50,000 their replacement uh value would be 17,100 that total not replaced is $33,000 I believe that's the example that you indicated that could go towards other forestry initiatives fund the tree sale Etc um this is an example of a prog Rive escrow so bear with me and I'll explain this as well it's a lot of information on the screen and if you look at the top there's a calculation 1 a and a 2A so kind of two ways we could look at this uh the first is to look at a progressive removal rate this almost when you think about it as a progressive tax plan right um we have brackets of removal so you could we could look at this and say up to 50 inches of removal um 50 to 70 51.1 to 75 I think you get it 75 to 100 100 and greater um you could also have a progressive removal value where your first 50 for example are at a lower rate that once you get over a 100 it goes to a higher rate of removal so again that would kind of get to your point of saying we don't want to incent or hit a cap and then you might as well keep going um that would be the same way with the replanting So Not only would you say the more you take out is more expensive but also the more you plant then you would get more of a credit back so there would be an incentive to plant more so you'd have a progressive rate for the planting and also for the value of that um just wanted to point out a couple of things that are currently in what you have for this evening is that is that credit back for an isi arborist right to help with these calculations help that homeowner is this a healthy tree is it a disease tree um so that's that maximum of $2,500 um we also added in again a credit for planting on off-site property so again that would help reduce that calculation um so in 2A we just tweaked that a little bit you could look at that in a different standpoint up to 30 in 30 to 50 I think you get the point there um but that escr per inch could be higher um right now we say 300 for a protected tree 500 for a Heritage you might find that those upper levels or upper level of Heritage trees might be worth more than $500 might be 600 right that's part of where we wanted to get some feedback on is this interesting to you and should we pursue it this is just kind of a summary table of what you could um compare to so under the existing escrow um that 74 in of non-replacement 33,000 but if it was more on that Progressive side that could be more on the 20,000 with that incentive to plant you could look at that as a higher value um you want to place on trees at those upper levels or removals that would again then increase increase that duty to plant uh we also looked at a smaller scale one so you kind of get the scope and sense of what we're talking about this one had 66 in of removal as is as an example and 25 uh replacement so again that uh escrow drops down from 26,000 the replacement caliper inches come in at 7500 it's 18,8 but if you were to do it on that Progressive you could look at a $7,000 escrow or a higher value one is 10,000 this one even has five caliper inches planted off site maybe that's you found one neighbor to plant a tree on or something like that right um so again it's um looking at how do we not get to a point as you mentioned of we kind of hit a point where we might as well keep removing right so um lesser on The Upfront removals higher penalty on the highest and then same thing to incent back you know is there a calculation if it's Financial that you're worried about is the more I plant back the more I do some leg work to get more on my neighbor's property or an adjacent property um the more credit I could get back under those scenarios so again that is not before you this evening but that's one of the items we talked about is looking at a different formula so that's we kind of wanted to get some feedback tonight to say is this something you're interested we could further develop what that bracket looks like what that cost is as well so that I I'm very interested in that and especially I I do like the designation between the um uh protected tree and the Heritage tree so we'd want to keep that but thank you for doing the calculation it is a lot of information but I like the idea of of pro project because one of the people who spoke before they had a tree next to the house and they wanted to do an addition it was the one tree and in that sort of situation you want to be a little more flexible but then if you're going to clearcut you're going to pay because I think that's what we want to disincentivize so I like that a lot um I do have other comments but I don't know if people want to talk about this part first um okay so the other thing is um uh the change from 36 months to 12 months and it's my understanding that um the 36-month figure originally was sort of the survival rate of trees and and we met upstairs we talked a little bit about the science um I know 12 months is what a tree is guaranteed is there a way we can write this that guarantees it's gone through a full growing cycle so maybe a year will do it but you know it is 15 months uh but tell us a little bit about the the science of of growing trees and the two time periods um so you're correct with the you know if you remember from the original Inception of the Ordinance one of the biggest complaints you know we were getting uh you know besides cutting down all the trees is that when they replant them they all die or they just you know replant little sticks and it doesn't you know provide anything and so the the 36-month uh guarantee was to ensure that the tree survived and and to you know incentivize that that survival of of the trees because otherwise you're you know putting in all the working all these inputs for for nothing um and and then two you know that's the other reason um you know I wanted to add in the ISA certified arbis portion because their expertise will you know be able to help with that um as well and you know it's uh you know offer that that advice to you know Builder homeowner whomever uh to ensure the you know survivability and viability of those trees um so we've got to balance you know the health of the tree and the complexity of the transaction would 15 months uh give us sort of you know my my my feeling with guarantees on Plants is they die the day after the warranty gives out and no matter how much you care for them so um would a little bit longer time make a big difference or not I I think it would help with the you know ensuring or incentivizing the you know the survivability of of the trees and and you know giving people a reason to you know keep them alive so I don't know if what my fellow members think but I'm I'm willing to go 15 months 18 months as opposed to a year I'm a little I think a year is awfully fast yeah um because you just don't know what's going to grow I was just going to offer that on for the commercial requirements the letter of credit that we hold is for two years um and so I I I do want people's feedback and then I have one more um question be yeah just think about that 15mon thing of yours in the suggestion in the context of when you plant trees so when when is the optimum time when are most people planting trees we can kind of figure out the cycle the fall is the preferred time spring and fall are the two main planting um you know Seasons here um now with some of the stuff I'm doing and some of the projects we're working on I've planted a tree in every single month of the year here in Minnesota and so for Builders Construction in my opinion it doesn't matter uh obviously easier in the spring and fall but you can plant whenever uh you know with a trees paid my my concern is that the T time starts ticking when they get their building or when it's CL they get their SEO when they get their yeah the um certificate of occupancy certificate of occupancy thank you and if that's December 1st you know we're not going to know if that tree survived until you know spring comes 18 months later or you know 15 months later so that's my concern and um so uh D what I was thinking about was the point you were making was that if you planted a tree in the fall 15 months would run the following winter so how would how would that help well I I'm just I'm I'm trying to do the calculation which is why I I I don't know so I my my nightmare scenario is you plant it in the middle of winter has one season it's kind of alive but then it doesn't make it through the next winter because it never established its roots you know yeah can I ask just kind of a followup so um regardless of the 15 18 or 24 months if the tree dies within that window what then what happens anybody hear at fall so uh as it's written in the ordinance it would be at the uh applicant's option to replace the tree at at that point or uh you know they don't have to replace it and uh it would just come out of the the fee schedule and you know like remember rer said um most nurseries when you're buying you know potted material uh it's a onee guarantee um with with larger you know material and to it varies depending on who your provider landscape architect so on so forth is um you know and like Carri stated it uh for most of our commercial projects two years is is the norm well I maybe it's in here and I just don't understand so if I take out a Heritage tree and it's and I'm at the cap so I've taken out a bunch of trees I'm at the 50,000 we go and we plant 50,000 worth of trees and they all die within 12 months or is the city coming back to me for another 50,000 or so for the for the escrow release um we have a form online that you fill out uh that provides you know your entire planting plan the the species location of of said plantings and that's uh that's where currently in the ordinance where the certified Arvest is required for that backend for the release of that escrow to verify the validity and health of of those trees so you don't have to pay a second amount of money but the money that's being held in escrow you lose unless you replant unless you replant yeah but the point James is Raising Ander is Raising what about the situation where you've you've defaulted on putting back the number of trees that you need to put back so now your your money goes into the pot now you decide to plant a tree in a park or a give it to somebody to plant in their yard and it dies as no consequence to that because you've already you've already gotten the person's money yeah there's no consequence to the applicant I mean that's not there's no there's no guarantee there I if you if you as a city decide to arborist plant take that tree and plant it in the park and it dies it's on us you just got to go get so my so there'd be no no nothing would happen to the to the applicant and and to you know like we were saying my my first plan is not to plant any more trees in our parks with any of these funds it'd be to fund our our tree sale and other you know uh you know uh tree incentives you know s such as that and um you know not not me out there out there planting eventually I'm sure that that would be the case but at that point we've retained the funds the applicant is you know in their house living there and I don't see how that if I don't I don't see how the language of 14 helps you with the tree sale that's different the money that's waved in a in an escrow I put $50,000 in I say I'm not planting any trees the $50,000 then helps uh Luther with his tree sale he can use that to fund the tree sale but the different site is if I have to plant one tree tree and my neighbor or I have to plant Three Trees I only want to plant two and my neighbor says hey I'd love to have a tree I plant it in their yard and it dies I don't lose any money or is the language dealing with the default so was that what you were Luther answering for if for paragraph 14 the tree replacement is being fulfilled by planting a tree on a different site if that tree dies what happens so at that point it is still on the applicant to you know maintain the health of that tree even on an adjacent site or or off-site location so I like I just don't like if just been honest I don't like this at all so I get 100% what you're saying M Jackson but if I'm on I you know I'll give a couple scenarios if I'm on an unbuilt lot I follow this process you tell me within the buffer which trees I can take out right if I go into the buffer and I take out trees and I escrow funds for that I honestly think from a government perspective that should be it for the controls and so the money goes in and either I decide I'm going to do some plantings or if I decide I'm going to give that money to the city and let them deal with it I think the homeowner should be done at that point so this kind of feels it kind of feels like we're approaching for me an uncomfortable government control of private property and so but I get it right I I get the whole thing I would rather have I like the UN unbuilt lot piece but I this trying to go from 12 months to 36 months to make sure the homeowners trees live if we care about it that much and I'm not saying we don't then the city should just be funding making sure those trees don't die instead of going back and putting it on the homeowner and then having the homeowner lose funds if trees die so what Mr Teague said director Teague said is that for commercial Builders we do go back and check to make sure what they planted grows and I think we should because they are in a commercial business right they're developer whatever they're doing yes they should do that but as a private homeowner I I really don't think we should be doing that doing that I'm going to push back a little bit because some of these homes are not being the trees are not being cut down by the homeowner they're being cut down by single family home developers and I think that's kind of where the rub is here because the homeowners talking about the unbuilt what no no no I'm talking about a tear down and what has been happening is that the neighbors and and this is the the argument we've been having all along it's like you move to a neighborhood Edina because it's a developed City and it has a tree canopy this tree canopy is disappearing as we are doing these tear down homes the tear down homes they take a small home they tear it down clearcut the lot build a big tree maybe maybe not plant a couple replacement trees so the concern is that a we're losing our tree canopy we lose value to our city that way and the people some people are are tearing down and building their own home but a lot of the tear Downs are not done by the people who are living there afterwards and so there's a business incentive to clearcut the lot and build the house and then plant uh things so it's I don't see the difference honestly between a commercial developer coming in and building an apartment building or a store or a country club and building trees or a developer coming in and building a single family home and planting trees so to me it's it's they're both business business decisions and um and it feels uncomfortable to require someone to water the trees but some we have to capture what's being lost it's an externality that we that the city's been absorbing so I in my you know if my neighbor tears down their house sell it to a developer they tear down all the trees build something else the externality of losing that shade that coolness and everything I I have to absorb I I don't disagree with I understand what you're saying I don't disagree with that I get uncomfortable where it feels like government is trying to tell a homeowner what they can do with their private property well once they own yeah once they own it they own it right and that's what the discussion we had upstairs like well I could go cut down all my trees today if I wanted to okay but if I want to have a tear down and someone's going to make profit off off of getting rid of my house and clear cutting my trees I think they need to absorb the cost to the neighborhood of cutting down those trees because if I live there and I cut down all my trees I will hear about it I will absorb the cost of that but the developer who moves on to the next thing does not absorb the cost of that they profit off of the loss that their neighbors feel and that's the concern here um and the examples that we've heard I the developer is is putting that at the owners on how many trees need to be removed on the private homeowner um and so the on their client that they're building the home for so but I totally get what you're saying that so I mean you don't have to agree with me but that's that's uh where I'm coming from I get you do the energy and environment commission had a chance to look at this no okay I have a suggestion because out of respect for their work and it seems as if we're not exactly going in a Direction Where where we're going to make a decision quickly or even soon what if we tabled this so that we could get their feedback it would clear up whether or not you know where they are in terms of generating policy for all of the other zones that are not R1 or R2 and they might have some thoughts about should it be a year should it be 18 months should it be you know something like that um but they are the experts and I feel badly that we're talking about this and they have not weighed in the reason we're doing this is because we've got two homeowners with 110,000 and 85,000 in escrow that are going to close by the end of the month okay so that's why we're trying to deal with one problem right now otherwise we can't we can't get it in force and effect before they close and they can calculate how much money they would get back okay but points about like how long the tree should live you know be monitored that's not something that has to be decided tonight tonight I don't it's this is a great discussion because it points out all of the right I think legal infirmities that we got here frankly so if we reset remember agu suggested tabling the 50,000 $50,000 cap removing the $50,000 cap removing it removing that yeah removing it from this one yeah but considering it down the road that's what I meant by table Yeah but remove it from here and then so so with respect to we and here's the answer here's the thing we don't know the problem with this idea or potential problem is that then you default to the language of 15a uh require cash ESC or letter satisfa City model 110% of the value of the tree replacement identify the tree protection plan they said they don't know until they get the building plans what they're going to have to put aside so they may be over 50,000 in the amount they have to put in under the existing regulation I think that's probably why you came up with this cap idea that at least for the for the present we can put the cap at $50,000 to me that makes some sense I I I was actually for a lower cap but then and remember Jackson convinced me that there's reasons to worry about other things there because I I just assume that no one's going to tear down more trees than they have to but we you know but they do and so maybe the long-term Solution on this is you don't let anybody do a tear down rebuild other you don't let them tear down trees other than what's on the building pad they got to leave everything else because we've got so many factual distinctions and scenarios going here and what FS it's hard to figure out what the language ought to be in an ordinance without being subject to Legal attack if we applied that logic to these unbuilt Lots though what we're saying is we're carving out the entirety of that space plus buffer that they can tear down those trees within that space right that would be your footprint of the existing house right and so that's where when your concern is well what if what's outside of that is still up to 50,000 well those are all then trees that they didn't have to cut down yeah true well and it actually may you know they may end up we less than 50,000 who knows yeah so I do have one other point um on this here throw us down another track well I got another Rabbit Hole so going back it's not June 5th yet going back to paragraph 14 um uh well first of all I want to say I did talk to John Hogan and I think that's why you're standing up here and who who wrote the report and really LED this effort so he has looked at it he has been working and I want to thank uh director veter and Luther for working with him and looping him in he was very grateful for that and so a lot of the comments that I'm talking about are ones that he and I kind of negotiated um who is this John Hogan who wrote the report he's a member of the and Environ commission and um so he has been working with us he was part of this plan um and so uh you know he it went through his eyes and had his approval before we got here tonight thank you mayor and Council that's the point I wanted to make is that while the eec has not formally looked at this and made a comment or recommendation on it um John Hogan is the vice chair of the energy environment commission and um two additional members attended your first work session and I think at that point they did acknowledge the fact that the unbuilt lot was not a discussion point because it was thought of that Rarity in the community and it was not addressed that time so while they have not seen it or made a recommendation on this language they are in support of um finding a remedy for the excuse me unbuilt lot within this um within this ordinance so that's the only point I wanted to make yes thank you so going back to paragraph 14 um we talked about using the notice of purpose the range of notice that's get sent out for a Redevelopment or a you know a building permit that's not written in here um I would like to see that written in here I think that's a really good rule because it's the character of the neighborhood so um what are you suggesting no forage so it says the tree replacement may be fulfilled by planning at a different site from their home the different site can be private or public land at the choice of City staff I'd like to lift that language that comes out from the notification um language to who gets notified when a house is getting a building permit so it's like within a half mile I don't know how exactly what it is but um but that notification distance is where the tree needs to be planted within so we can't say my neighbor can say oh I've got a cabin I need a new tree up at the cabin that's a new tree being planted but this in the city well that that so I'm I'm throwing this out there you can say no but it's at the choice of the city staff so City staff could say no to the Lake cottage idea okay would um but I guess mayor Neil's lake ctage so the the question is and this is maybe for a Luther but who who would it be better to have it written into the ordinance to take some of the pressure off or do you want the flexibility of being able to say yeah that works at this time um but what would what would work better for the implementation of this I I think the the flexibility is you know nice okay yeah I agree I mean we can we can adopt a a a working rule that uses that as kind of the preference and do it when we can but having some flexibility in case we're running into odd situations would be good I think for this okay well I wanted to throw that idea out there um uh you know I like the idea of keep in the character of the neighborhood so those were my thoughts um by we on 14 I've got a suggestion on a language Edition so it says a different site can be private or public land at the choice of City staff and then it says period And it says City controls I think it should say City staff controls it says where I think it all it should also say and when the planting will happen and the species of the trees will be planted that will be planted so I would add City I would add word staff after City on the last sentence and add the words and when inter lineate and when after the word where so the last sentence reads City staff controls where and when the planting will happen and the species of the trees that will be planted make sense makes sense yep that makes sense I I like that all right and then what are we going to do about member Agnus suggestion of dumping that last sentence in 15 comfortable with that for now yeah how soon are we expecting to have all the other resolutions the other issues resolved commercial well the commercial I think is is going to be ready for the next for June 18th is it is it not uh no we were going to tie it to many of the other points you're talking about tonight how's are you doing Progressive are you doing all the things you've been kind of discussing we were going to tie that in the commercial so we're kind of seeing what council decides on residential and make sure they're all locked up not that we approve something that's different but okay so we keep saying commercial is could say all other Landing I apologize I did say commercial life but all the other zones where there happen to be trees planted how long is it going to take us to come back with um resolving those issues um so strike the last sentence on 15a um so if I may um I'd like to have the report come in and then we can say in this blank space we're going going to make it tie with the how it's resolved with a residential I think we if we had that in the hopper ready to go and we get these other things and we can do it all at once I'd like to hear from the energy environment Commission on their commercial ideas if the other Zone ideas the other yes excuse me the other Zone ideas um and then if they have fuzzy areas where this has fuzzy areas we resolve them all at once is that your so we have an existing tree ordinance that's that's residential we have a set of proposals we might adopt tonight we have a set of proposals that we're going to get more information on and we have then other zones basically what the EC put together for all other zoning areas was just a match of the residential oh okay so there's not any big changes there was like one point that staff wanted to keep with the the commercial ordinance that had so many trees around the perimeter otherwise they just wanted to match the residential side so I think you have a lot of questions on residential all this would come together with the commercial okay so I I just I'm thinking about their their timing and stuff you know I want to hear from them but I also don't want to have to go through the whole cycle of both our meetings and the eec meetings to get them here and delay it by six weeks or something well plus you need remember too that we our next meeting is June 18th and then our next meeting after that is July 16th so we have a month break in between yeah so if we could hear from them sooner rather than later unless they want to weigh in on all of on all the fuzzy areas director rder I was just going to make the clarification mayor and Council that if you are interested in the Progressive calculation us looking at that more I think staff would be supportive of a cap tonight as long as you recognize that going forward that we could come back with potentially something better to address some of these concerns with a different type of formula so I think you could do what's in the proposed language this evening and then we could try to bring back something better if you are interested in that Progressive style view Ru you comfortable with that staff recommendation so what we're talking about about is likely a matter of $1,232 for one property right cuz that's the only one that's it's at 51 23250 right now so there's only one that's not on an unbuilt lot that we're talking about and so I'm not going to go against staff recommendation for $1,200 um but I would just say in general I it it makes me uncomfortable to think about a fixed flat rate cap when some of the the properties that we're talking about you know are being sold for $2.3 million that would be a 2% right and we're not talking about 500 700,000 homes that are being bought and sold we're talking about millions of dollars um and so that's where I say whether it's $1,200 or 50,000 you know what I mean like that little wiggle room there doesn't really matter so I'm fine if we want to say leave the language as is for this time around um but what I I don't want to see is us doing a fixed cap long term to staff here recommending that we leave that last sentence in 15a and just make that other word change I think you recommended changes to 14 14 section 14 which was and when and then the other one was uh proposed this evening was an establishment of a cap and I think we recognize that does potentially also we don't know the calculations on the unbuilt Lots yet about where that would be so that would also apply to them potentially um as long as you are open I think that was our hope is that if we could come back with something on that incentivized scale then would the council then remove the cap if that that was an option so well I'm not going to vote for um I I don't like the grading scale I think it should be capped I think it's dangerous for us to have a conversation saying well these houses are $2 million houses they can afford to pay more cuz that's where we're going to end up going and I'm just telling you I'm uncomfortable with that just because it feels like we're focused on the wrong thing if we want to protect the trees we have to find a way to protect the trees with a policy that everybody can support that's not that doesn't feel like it's punitive and so I'm okay with um addressing the issue for the two that we started with I'm okay with that but whatever but we need to do the work to then come back to address all the zones but I'm just telling you I'm not going to vote for um Progressive or Progressive yeah I would prefer there be or percent or a percent yeah so and I don't need to right it's tonight you don't need to worry about that yeah yeah yeah and I and we don't have to debate that no right at all yeah and and I won't vote for a cap so at some future date at any date any even tonight I I will not vote for a cap tonight or in the future with respect to this I mean okay yeah I let's find out where we are so what I understand we got in front of us here is the changes that are highlighted uh deal with amending the ordinance uh 202 24-4 and then we made a a a language change on the last sentence of paragraph 14 that's the extent of what we're going to what staff's recommending we do tonight and adopt it in its amended form with that language change on 14 oh we got a sidebar going over here again we're just trying to figure out if we're if you are going to vote on this tonight um and you need to wait second reading the ordinance is in effect uh immediately and applies to existing permits so and it's a four fifths vote to wave second reading well let's see where it goes and then we'll you don't get it we'll find four fths some other way um if I may pardon me may I may I speak do you want to have a motion in a second and then have a more discussion or you want to just speak now I don't that doesn't matter to me well I mean I like the changes I am uncomfortable with the cap and um uh I think it's a perverse incentive I think that what will happen is everybody who's thinking of clearing cutting a their think they going to come out in clearcut in the time between now and when we have a change to this so what are you thinking I'm thinking we start with a motion and then maybe one of us makes a recommendation for the amendment for that one component and we just get the vote on it okay well wait a minute I mean if if we got two people that are against the the cap then you're not going to wave second reading because we need four fifths for that so why even go to that first step I was suggesting making the motion to approve it as written with your adjustment to chapter or paragraph 14 right and then for someone to do potentially a follow on um I forget how the amendment Amendment for that piece we could vote on just the cap in and of itself and then address the bulk of the body if that's how Robert's Rules work all right so yeah I agree so you're make you I'll I'll make a motion make a motion to adopt the amendments to 20 2404 with the uh change we made to paragraph 14 so moved second here member rer so as is just the so second okay and now we got a motion to Second and you want more discussion yes I'd like to propose an amendment to this and that is to eliminate the cap in paragraph 15a the last sentence the maximum C escro or letter of credit should be $50,000 a second question any Amendment uh I believe it creates a perverse incentive to clearcut lots and I'm not in favor of that so the we're just going to vote on the amendment whether or not you agree that the $50,000 credit cap should be stricken yeah yeah yeah and so I'm just clarifying that the reason that the the cap was suggested was primarily at this stage to address the two issues that exist and so if we strike that then there then we go back to then those two issues go back to the max escrow they they're on the unbuilt lots and so the portion that is within the buildable area including the buffer would be removed so making up right if it's 20% of it that would then be removed that would be removed so assuming that they remove trees that are in the building pad and the buffer the amount that they're required to pay would be decreased put in desrow okay got it thanks wait way do right the way the or the way the proposed amendment reads now or not the not the amendment to the amendment but the amendment is as I understand it that in that situation that you just described you've got the free zone yeah and then to the extent they tear down any other trees it would be subm to the $50,000 cap right now the amendment to the amendment proposes that that cap language be eliminated so that there's potentially greater protection for tree canopy so there' still be the free zone yeah so it's just the outside of the free zone that we're discussing okay um so any further discussion on the amendment all those in favor of adoption of the amendment say I I opposed I'm opposed motion carries the cap is removed now we're back to the main motion without the cap language on 15a all those in favor of adoption of the original motion to amend ordinance 2024-the on section 14 and now the last sentence of paragraph 15a eliminated and say I I I oh and waiver second reading included wait say that again let's make that a second a separate motion to wave second reading SE separate action okay all right forget that second reading state it again we're we're we're voting on adoption of the main Amendment yeah but without the language of 15a last sentence no more cap we're at the we're at the original formulation for figuring out what they have to pay if they go outside the free zone exemp Zone without a c okay all those in favor of adoption of the amendment as described for 2020 404 say I I I opposed carried nay oh n yeah but I so that that's fine okay so I'm going to move um waving the second read I thought you said for a second I thought you said two different things but this is the second thing we're going to wave the second there's a second to the motion to wave second reading second Jackson moves IGN new second waiver second reading on the ordinance as Amendment to the ordinance as approved any further discussion all those in favor of waiver second reading say I I I opposed nay carried you know I still see as we I hate to keep talking about this but it's it's pretty fascinating it says if a Heritage tree is removed it must be replaced with a protected tree I don't I don't see in here where it says that you're defaulting or you're forfeiting the money that you put in escrow trees on S these fees are considered owed to the city and retained permanently okay there you go thanks mhm anybody got anything they want talk about all right we're on to manager Neil I don't have any report tonight thank you here and Council comments remember rer want to lead us off we'll go right down the line um well I spent a good part of Sunday with my colleagues member U and member Jackson and we really received an excellent training from Edan of firefighters and got a got to experience um some of the aspects of being a firefighter and putting on the gear feeling how heavy that is and all of that and I just want to give a shout out to them and one of the things that I think about a lot partly because in another part of my life I think about posos and um how that is a carcinogen and I have been battling cancer and firefighters have a higher rate of getting cancer and that was on my mind a lot during the training um just thinking about you know how tough it is to battle that battle but to be in a career that is so intense and so much about service and um I just really want to thank the Adina firefighters and underscore how important their work is and how challenging it can be and the reality that for some types of cancer your risk of getting it if you are a firefighter is 10 times higher than the general population so shout out to Edina firefighters thank you for that well I want to thank you I want to thank the fire department as well I was thinking about forest fires actually I mean I was terrified the we took the hose in and put out a fire in a fairly controlled space and I was terrified of that fire I can't imagine being out in the wilderness trying to put out a forest fire um kudos to all our firefighters it's a they just do an incredible job it's physically demanding it's emotionally demanding um mentally demanding and and I'm so grateful for the job that they do and I want to thank Ben Kenny especially for organizing it um then we had another successful art fair uh I really enjoyed it I hope people got out Between The Raindrops I was out in the sunshine it was beautiful and then in the interum between our last meeting and now I attended a webinar on um Ada uh policy for cities and that prompted me to write to U manager Neil say hey do we have a transition plan and we do um the city of Edina adopted an uh American Disabilities Act transition plan on uh March 25th 2022 Amy Murray is our coordinator for that and as we're looking at our um Capital Improvement plan I hope that we can kind of highlight things that are happening that are making things more accessible as we go forward so that's my ask and uh again Kudos thank you very much to the firefighters that was really opening you remember Pierce I am really bummed that I did not get a chance to do the firefighter training with my colleagues um but I wouldn't have traded it for the world my aunt in Michigan sagana Michigan turned 100 and so um we had her birthday celebration that Saturday and then into Sunday um and so that's why I missed it um I should have brought a picture just to show everybody uh but anyway um and that is also why I missed the art fair we were out of town uh so glad to be back and just looking forward to spending some time uh at home in ninaa before we go to Chicago this weekend for my daughter's graduation from uh Northwestern so she's already graduating yeah oh he smokes yeah rno I'll just echo my appreciation for Sunday you know I had already gone on the ride along just like two weeks prior so I was like oh I I know what this is going to be like and I was so wrong um and I I think I really took for granted like how physical of a a job it really is like you put on all the gear and like you your Mo like Mobility is so like limited and it was it was eye opening it was an amazing experience and I I just really appreciate everyone who put together that day Ben Kenny included I know that he led that effort um but I just think it's a really wonderful opportunity um that they they offer to us in the city and I know that they've done it other times for other members of the community we also had um other um administrative staff um that were a part of that as well and also invited in Hopkins um to partner with us um just given that they are newly a part of our firefighters Union I believe is the correct way to say that um I think that was the only thing that I had for this week but yeah it was just a really really wonderful experience oh and I'll just I'll Echo um one of the things that member Risser mentioned about cancer rates um and it's it's startling right when you start to look at some of that data um so just really really truly appreciate all of the work that they do for our city for our community um we talked a lot about response rates and and this was specifically you know I think to to Cardiac Arrest but like Edina is is really really great from a a save rate um from a response rate perspective and it just makes me really proud to to be a part of the city so thank you I had to kind of laugh at myself uh on Sunday I told my wife I'm going to run out to the police and fire training facility they got some kind of demonstration out there and so I had a nice casual clothes on and I had no idea what was going on I got I was surprised to see you guys out there then you're all dressed up in gear and and uh I thought what did I miss the the communication here that this wasn't this wasn't them demonstrating it was us you know being invited to participate so I felt a little little foolish but n nonetheless it was you there was a there's a great photo out there of all three of them with their gear on and uh and they were I saw them trudging in that door with the smoke porn out and they were heading in there all three of them it was uh pretty cool [Music] um yesterday we had a Regional Council of mirors meeting uh over at Microsoft and so uh it was they invited the Mayors over to get a backgrounding on AI and all the platform work that that that Microsoft is doing on AI so Microsoft is spending 8 billion dollar a quarter 8 billion a quarter on AI to stay ahead of the game and so um they invited us to come over as a council and department heads um staff could figure out who should be coming um because we're going to we're going to need to know more about this and getting a little backgrounding on it James with his technology background probably feels pretty comfortable but I thought it was really uh quite valuable and enlightening to have that experience for an hour and they invited the school district too and I thought well we've got that meeting with them I think on Monday we could talk about it then you know where we could all do it together they've got plenty of ability there to to go over there and uh they've got great presenters and um spend an hour over there getting backgrounded on AI and and seeing all the things they even even through their PowerPoint they were using examples of things that cities could do in terms of building inspection with uh with specialized gear that you know takes notes as you're going and you just talk to the headgear and and uh other things that can be done so um let's keep that in mind I think it's a nice opportunity for us to spend an hour that way we could do it over a noon hour and have lunch brought in uh that's it for me anything else Luther any final words you want to share with us a uh the best time to plant a tree was yesterday uh the second best time is today all [Laughter] right I thought you were going to say make sure you plant a tree under which whose shade you'll never sit under if you're old enough all right is there a motion to adjourn so move we got a lot of we got a un unanimity on that we don't even need a second we're all everybody wants out of here uh all those in favor of Germans say I I I Poe stand adjourned