[0:16] okay how's everybody doing tonight good feels like summer out there [0:22] right so welcome everybody to the April 30th [0:28] 2025 city vina planning commission meeting on behalf of the rest of the commission we are grateful you are here [0:35] whether it's in person or for those tuning in remotely your curiosity your [0:41] participation and certainly your feedback is vital to this process as we navigate change together here in Edina [0:48] specifically regarding the ways in which we'd like to use our land [0:54] uh I'll go through kind of what to expect for this meeting um a little later but first it's important to know [1:01] as I mentioned your feedback's vital so the city's committ committed to getting [1:06] your feedback and we are committed to reading it reviewing it and considering it before we make any recommendations [1:13] for approval or denial or any uh any uh recommendations tonight for that matter [1:19] and the best way to do so for those tuning in who might not know the city has a engagement website ww.etto [1:28] togetherina.org that's the best place to track potential and ongoing and past [1:34] developments there's a handy map so you can see what's happening close to where you live and stay engaged that way uh [1:42] tonight we have one public hearing i'll go over that process and how to tune in [1:48] remotely and participate remotely for testimony later uh but in general the [1:54] agenda for tonight will follow this we'll have a call to order then roll call we'll have the approval of [2:00] tonight's meeting agenda followed by the previous meeting minutes from April 8th [2:06] we'll have our community comment period then we'll have the one public hearing [2:11] after that we do have one report and recommendation and then we follow things up with chair and member comments staff [2:18] comments and adjournment so without further ado let's call this meeting to order then roll call [2:27] commissioner Nelson here commissioner Alky here commissioner Padilla here commissioner Smith here commissioner Day [2:34] here commissioner Bournestein here commissioner Felt here commissioner Honaman here chair Bennett here [2:41] next we have the approval of tonight's agenda [2:48] motion to approve second all those in favor say I i so moved next we have the [2:55] approval of the prior meetings minutes from April 8th [3:01] motion to approve the meeting minutes from April 8th second all those in favor say I i so moved next we have the [3:09] community comment period and this is your opportunity for those who are here in person that would like to testify [3:15] about a matter not on tonight's agenda you have three minutes to do so you can [3:21] come up to either podium state your full name your address when the light starts when the light is green you have three [3:27] minutes when it turns red your time's up and we'll ask you to wrap up your comments uh is anyone here for community [3:35] comment seeing none we'll move right on to our [3:42] public hearing so again we have one public hearing and this is if you're new to [3:48] this process this is kind of what it's about so if if there's an applicant that [3:54] wants to do something with their land that doesn't quite conform to the code I'm from Minnesota I guess tonight [4:02] um doesn't quite conform to the code um uh staff staff looks into it and uh [4:11] takes a look at the law and the codes the ordinances see what doesn't apply [4:16] they put together a report uh with facts and findings they consult with other [4:21] departments as needed in commissions and then they put all that [4:27] together into a presentation for us tonight uh we we're going to continue to [4:32] kind of combine the question and answer period so after staff presents we'll give the opportunity for the applicant [4:38] to do their own presentation and after that we'll bring it back to the commission for some questions and [4:45] answers and some brief discussion before we open it to the public hearing once [4:50] that begins that's your chance to testify about the matter for those of you who are in person it's the same [4:56] process as I mentioned with the community comment and for those tuning in remotely uh I will give you a phone [5:03] number and a bunch of passwords and cues to jump into the queue to participate when we get to that matter but for now [5:09] just hold tight and then after that we bring it back to the commission to deliberate and we make a recommendation [5:16] for approval or denial so with that pass it over to planner rocker to present for [5:22] this public hearing variance for 4200 Morning Sedro yes thank you chair [5:28] members of the planning commission this is a front yard setback variance request it is for 4200 Morningside Road the [5:35] subject property is approximately 7,15 square ft in area it is a corner [5:41] lot as you can see highlighted it is in the northwest corner of Grimes Avenue and Morningside Road it consists of a [5:50] two-story home with an attached twocar garage that currently has a deck above [6:00] it this is a survey of the existing home it also includes the small addition to [6:07] the building footprint most of the addition or improvements um they're on the second floor it would be an addition [6:15] above the garage which would include a great room as well as a covered deck the [6:21] uh roof above the great room would extend over a deck area and then the area that is to the south of the home [6:30] here is a portico on the main level and then um you saw in the previous photo of [6:36] the existing home there's a a bay window on that second floor the the floor above [6:42] and that will be squared off and that requires an additional uh variance due [6:48] to the fact that it's getting a little bit closer to the south lot line this line indicates the required setback from [6:57] the south lot line it is the front yard setback of the neighbor to the directly [7:02] to the west this property has two front yard setback requirements one along Grimes Avenue and one along uh [7:10] Morningside Road technically this is the buildable area of the lot as highlighted [7:15] in yellow so that setback that is required for Morningside Road is actually what the setback is of the [7:22] existing house that is facing it as well as the house that is directly to the north this house is just slightly closer [7:30] than the home that is to the north the yellow area is if the home were to be [7:35] demolished is the area that is the buildable area of the lot so um the [7:41] actual width or depth or whichever you would like to call it um of this [7:47] buildable area is about 19 1/2 ft so um given the size of the lot which is not [7:54] terribly large the building opportunity is uh very [7:59] limited so regarding the compliance table with what they would like to achieve they will be maintaining [8:06] everything that is already existing with the exception of the setback along that south side they're going to be getting a [8:12] bit closer currently it's at 15.9 ft um they'd like to reduce that to 13.97 [8:19] and that would give them the opportunity to um square off that main floor uh box [8:26] portico area and then add um a little bit of area to the bay window area [8:33] that's up on the upper floor so this is what they're proposing they will be changing the roof line and then um [8:41] boxing out that bay window that's existing there currently and then underneath it will be um having a slight [8:51] enclosure of that um front entry this is the great room edition again with the [8:58] the deck um underneath a new roof line it'll have the same roof look pitch um [9:06] but it'll be just a bit little bit lower but in terms of overall building footprint it's they're they're really [9:13] limiting uh the amount of addition that they're adding on to the footprint of the house [9:20] so these are the elevations uh front elevation the new uh westerly elevation [9:27] showing that great room and then the deck uh with the roof above the right [9:33] elevation which is facing Morningside no pardon me Grimes um which is the east [9:39] elevation really doesn't change and then uh the back of the house which is the north elevation this is the major change [9:46] there they would have um that area It's currently a flat roof garage they would have uh living space above the house is [9:54] rather banked into the hill so it's uh far more exposed on that south side than [10:00] on the north side um this gives you an idea of the main level uh improvements showing the [10:07] existing conditions on that main or or walk-in portion of the house and then uh [10:13] on that upper floor the new great room which would tie into a remodeled uh [10:18] upper level new balcony and then this is that um modification to the existing bay [10:25] window which I believe is a floating desk and then uh [10:31] again that main or entry level portion these are just [10:37] structural columns that support that upper level addition and then another [10:43] support column um in front of the garage but very minimal increase in um building [10:51] footprint and again the floor plan showing u the remodeling and improvements to the house and then uh [11:00] the new roof or modified roof plan [11:09] so in terms of a variance um the proposed intent of the front yard setback [11:16] requirement is uh to provide consistent minimum spacing of a structure to a lot [11:21] line adjacent to a street however the code is rather elastic and it does allow somebody to have a deeper front yard [11:27] setback which then in turn affects the front yard setback of the adjacent properties in this situation they have I [11:36] guess the double whammy there's two front yard setbacks that they are supposed to be um adhering to um very [11:43] clearly they don't um conform to that setback that is along Morning Side Road [11:49] and that um is not something that is self-imposed um it's an existing [11:56] non-conforming condition that's um been obviously it's a it's a challenge when [12:02] looking at any opportunity for the House um is the variance consistent with the [12:07] comprehensive plan yes the principal use of the property will still be a single family home will remain as such are [12:14] there practical difficulties complying with the ordinance i think it was pretty clear with the um with the uh slide that [12:22] showed the buildable area of the lot it's it's difficult because most of the at least a third of the home is [12:28] non-conforming in terms of fitting within that box um is the plight of the land owner due [12:35] to the circumstances that are unique to the property and that are not self-created um no it's not has not been [12:42] self-created by uh the current property owner um there have been no variances [12:47] that I could tell doing some research on the property for when the home was built in 1979 so presumably at some point it [12:55] did meet our ordinance requirements um however it no longer does um and will [13:01] the variance alter the essential character of the neighborhood granting the variance should not alter the essential character of the neighborhood [13:07] the applicants are hoping to complement the neighborhood with new home improvements that fit the unique character of the Morningside [13:13] neighborhood um and surrounding properties so the recommended recommended action by staff is to [13:20] approve the 11.5 ft front yard setback variance for property at 4200 Morningside Road approval should be [13:27] subject to the following findings listed in the staff report the practical difficulty is caused by the required [13:34] south front yard setback variance requirement and based on what where the neighbor is located [13:39] currently there are circumstances that are unique to this property that are unique circumstances include two street [13:46] frontages requiring front yard setbacks on a very narrow corner lot had this [13:51] been a typical interior side uh yard where you um are not having an effect [13:57] with the street frontage along the side it would meet the setback requirements of an interior lot the proposal will not [14:06] will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood the garage and portico expansion design to the house um [14:12] with matching materials will be used and the addition will match the existing home setback on the south side and [14:18] provide a similar setback as a second floor can lever from the morning side road um with that um approval should be [14:27] subject to the following conditions the survey and plans date stamped March 30th [14:33] 1st 2025 compliance with in the environmental engineers permit review [14:38] and the tree ordinance um there were two comments on the better together Edina and uh one positive one uh not [14:47] supportive of variances and then I think there was a number that were sent later um that were from neighbors they just [14:54] didn't make it in time to get it on uh better together Edina but they were forwarded to you and they were all [14:59] positive um Brian Hogan the representative for the applicant is here [15:05] this evening and with that I will stop and let [15:10] Um yeah thank you Chris would the applicant like to provide a quick [15:17] presentation or just simply stand for questions yeah your preference [15:22] i think Chris did a good job i'm sorry so I'm the contractor for the [15:31] client um they're out of the country but um wanted me to stand and represent them [15:37] and answer any questions which I'm happy to do if anybody has any [15:43] um Chris knows the rules so I'm just you know I just need to get the permit in [15:48] and see if this is going to happen um my my opinion knowing the Morningside [15:53] neighborhood and living near there is that the impact would only be positive in my in [16:00] my opinion as far as the design goes and um I don't think there's any negative [16:06] features of the proposed remodel that would be a a detriment to any any [16:12] neighbors or I I know the clients and I know that they've gotten all positive [16:19] feedback from the neighbors that they know so um yeah hopeful that it passes but here [16:26] to answer any questions that anybody might have thank you very much yeah turn it to the planning commission if you [16:31] have any questions for either the applicant or [16:37] staff thank you uh uh for standing for [16:42] questions uh I guess my question would be um I'm just really curious about the garage and adding on top of the garage [16:51] um I'm not a structural engineer but could you just share any any [16:58] reinforcements that you would need to put into the garage like in beams walls [17:04] etc that would then allow for more weight you know for the building massing [17:10] to be built on top of it just any insights there any changes that you make to the structure of the garage to [17:16] support the new the new uh living space yeah there's a structural engineer that's been out to the property already [17:22] and is wasn't included in the plans that Chris presented but um we do have those [17:28] plans so the whole deck system that currently exists as well as the joist [17:34] supporting that deck will be removed there's a steel beam that is required to [17:40] go in and new uh TGI floor joists that are required to go in with new subfloor [17:45] on top of it thank you [17:51] any other questions [17:57] more for staff I guess but um it appears that all the I mean other than [18:03] 4208 Morningside Road the other properties the one over on Crocker or on [18:10] that's Crocker over 40 249 and the ones going both east and west from there all [18:15] appear to have the same issue of of the setback it looks like 4208 is in compliance but if any of [18:23] those properties are looking to do anything different it appears they're if if those are also considered it's a [18:29] sideyard but it it looks like they also have a double front yard uh variance [18:36] possibly if you go further to the east but what's hard to really see sorry [18:44] what's hard to really pick up on is 4247 and I think that might be Crocker over [18:49] there um has part of their lot that comes down and connects to Morningside [18:55] that's how they're how you get into the garage so they technically would not be [19:00] subjected because they are not directly adjacent to 4208 so um 42 4249 would not [19:09] have the same setback issue but if you go across the street on [19:15] Grimes 4114 does because I believe the next house over from them um they front [19:23] Morning Side so they would also have that situation morningside is a mixed bag every lot might be a little bit [19:31] different questions yeah in case anyone's tuning [19:39] in can you do you know or can we speak to why corner lots have two fronts and [19:46] and sort of how we thought about that sure not all of them do in a typical lot [19:53] and block situation where you have backyard to backyard and then there's two side streets and each property um [19:59] has their homes facing the opposite direction in those instances they have a [20:05] set set uh side street setback but because there are homes fronting both [20:12] streets that's their front yard technically the corner lot has to match [20:17] both front yard setbacks on both streets it's not um if you go to the west side [20:22] of Edina it's usually not as much of an issue because the lots are larger um different configuration but you get to a [20:29] neighborhood in like Morningside where they're very narrow some of them they might be deep but um it really does [20:35] affect opportunity good questions all right I think that's it [20:42] for questions thank you uh stick around in case we have more um but this is the [20:47] public hearing so we'll open the public hearing so for those tuning in remotely [20:53] in order to participate take out your phone and call the following [20:59] number and it's on the screen too so [21:04] 312535 8110 enter access code [21:12] 26324 0868 enter password [21:17] 5454 then press star three to get in the queue to speak now [21:23] while you do that we'll open it to those who are in person here that would like to [21:29] testify same um instructions as the community comment you have three minutes [21:34] to do so come up to either podium please state your full name your address the [21:39] lights green go when it's red your time's up is anyone here in person [21:45] that'd like to testify yeah please come forward yep either one [21:51] yep it should turn green and three thank you for your service on the planning [21:58] commission my name is Helen Burke i am a neighbor to the north of uh the party at [22:06] 4200 um Morningside Road and so I forgive me if I'm stating the [22:15] obvious and what you've already know but the house that I'm in is the one that [22:20] was originally on that lot and then it was subdivided in like [22:26] the late ' 70s and two other houses were built on [22:33] the lot both of those houses face onto Morningside Road it's the same with my [22:41] neighbor across the street 4247 um the previous owners divided [22:50] both 100 by 200 original Morningside lots into [22:57] their original home and then two others um I think it's all working uh I think [23:04] that the plan John and um Kevin both spent time [23:10] talking with neighbors and explaining their uh desire to do this and um I just [23:19] think it it makes perfectly good sense i'm speaking for myself but I've also been in touch with uh the neighbor the [23:27] neighbor to the west and uh the neighbor [23:32] to further to the north from me and I think one the one neighbor on better [23:40] together is so-called kitty corner and she was very positive so for what that's [23:48] worth thank you thank you very much really appreciate your [23:53] time anyone else who is here in person that'd like to testify okay seeing none it's been at [24:01] least a minute is there anyone in the queue that would like to speak virtually no there is nobody in the queue so I [24:08] believe it is safe to proceed okay I guess I welcome a motion to close the public hearing [24:15] motion to close all those in favor say I i I so move the [24:21] public hearing is closed thank you again for coming and participating and sharing positive feedback [24:29] turn it over to the planning commission to deliberate on this one [24:37] welcome any discussion or a motion even [24:42] i I have no real issues the only question I had was about the house to the north and since we just heard from [24:49] that uh party and thank you for being here um I'm I'm fine with the uh [24:55] improvements being [25:03] planned i'll just give a quick comment and then we can move on yes um you know [25:10] just just overall you know we certainly come across uh cases where we have a [25:17] grandfathered in type of a situation where at the time these homes when they were built it conformed then rules [25:25] change and now you want to make a change to your home and now it's not conforming anymore but based on what I see here [25:31] personally uh we're just adding up above the garage that's already there the foot [25:36] print is not going to change significantly at all only really really tiny small changes in the front um the [25:43] designs look really great it's an improvement to the home so I think it's going to add to the character of that neighborhood significantly um and so I'm [25:50] in I'm in favor of this change um I think it it totally fits [26:00] um I was say I appreciate um the reuse of the existing home that this is just [26:05] added on rather than tearing it down and I also there is um the extra just under [26:12] two feet to the front that bump out that's an additional variance a little [26:17] further but that adds so much character to the front of the house that I think it's completely appropriate and and a [26:23] very nice entry so I approve of this [26:31] I'm just going to make a motion uh let's see i'd like a a mot [26:37] make a a motion to approve the 11.5 ft setback variance from section 36438 of the zoning code based on [26:45] findings for an addition to a home at 4200 Morningside Road and subject to conditions listed in the staff report [26:52] second do we have any further discussion seeing none we'll go to a vote uh all [26:59] those in favor say I i i opposed motion carries unanimously good [27:05] luck with the project thank you for a great process good neighbor feedback all that helps thank [27:12] you all right that is it for our public hearings this evening that went quick compared to some [27:19] other nights recently um now you're getting the sun in the eye hopefully you brought your [27:25] sunglasses so now we have our one report and re recommendation this is a sketch [27:30] plan review for a familiar site 616 Vernon Avenue [27:39] uh Carrie take it away yes thank you chair members of the commission believe [27:44] this is the fourth project proposed on this site in the last oh three four years or so so this again as mentioned [27:51] it's a sketch plan no binding decision or um just to provide the applicant some [27:56] feedback on a potential future development application so the site's located on Vernon just west of city hall [28:03] here it's this small triangular piece it's the former Keys automotive site [28:09] auto service here's kind of a dated now picture of the the building on the site [28:17] part of the issue that we've had with this site is that it's guided in the comprehensive plan for medium density [28:23] residential but zoned PCD4 planned commercial district for the auto service [28:28] station that used to be there the proposal this evening is to tear down [28:34] that existing building and build a three-story 20 unit memory care facility [28:40] access is proposed off Eden Prairie Road and [28:47] Vernon so again three levels a commercial kitchen on the lower uh lower [28:53] level some community space on each floor here's a massing uh diagram that the [28:59] applicant has submitted and they'll go through some of this in a little more more detail in their presentation but just to give you an idea of the size of [29:06] the building looking at our compliance table uh required v several variances [29:13] would be required here off of Vernon and Eden Prairie Road the parking and drive aisle setbacks on all sides uh parking [29:21] stalls initially they had given us a number for how many employees were going [29:26] to be on the site and it appeared to be code compliant they've since revised that so they are short parked about [29:33] three parking stalls our code doesn't provide for visitor parking so in all [29:40] likelihood there would be parking that would spill out onto the street with this proposal there would be as part of [29:46] any formal request a parking study that would be done as well as a traffic study uh building coverage is noted it's [29:53] roughly 35 uh% just with the existing building there's a patio that's proposed [29:59] whether that's enclosed or not so there might be a variance there for building coverage um here is the required [30:07] setbacks on the site uh we've seen this diagram with other projects so really [30:12] you can't build anything on this site without a variance just as a reference to the pre [30:18] the last request which was for the station pizza which was more to remodel the existing building and build an [30:24] addition that also required a number of variances so with this request a formal [30:31] application would be a reszoning from PCD4 that the current uh designation to [30:36] PRD5 planned residential district that's where our nursing homes convolescent [30:41] home type uses are allowed site plan review and then the mult the several [30:46] variances that I mentioned with the resoning we would have discretion with the formal [30:53] application one thing I want to note here is with the comprehensive plan all those other requests [30:58] required a comprehensive plan amendment we don't believe that one would be necessary here within the existing medium density [31:06] residential land use category of the comprehensive plan it indicates that [31:12] small institutional uses would be allowed so we contacted Met Council um [31:19] their institutional land use category does include new nursing homes so it was their opinion that we don't need a [31:25] comprehensive plan amendment uh in this case so issues for consideration um [31:31] again all these are non-binding um but comment on the proposed land use is this [31:37] appropriate given the number of variances um and is the PRD5 [31:42] uh zoning appropriate one thing I want to touch on too [31:50] um in terms of the access so concern that was raised by our engineering [31:56] department this wasn't in the staff report i just got this today but you know if this is turned into entry on [32:03] both sides this could end up just being a cutthrough for all of the people that live to the north so that would be an [32:10] issue we would have the traffic uh consultant take a look at that as part of that study but that does raise a [32:16] pretty big concern that that cut through traffic so that's something that we would flesh out as part of a formal review with that I can answer any [32:23] questions you may have and the applicant team is here to present as well [32:30] what do you think Carrie should we do similar to the Yeah we could have them present and then Yeah do would you guys [32:35] like to present and then we'll combine the questions be a little more efficient [32:41] just introduce yourself and I'm sure you got something to present and thank you for being here yeah thank you i'm Josh [32:48] Brandstead the president owner of Agreco we're a local multif family uh development group and property [32:54] management group here based in the Twin Cities been around for about 22 years um so thank you very much for having us [33:00] this evening thanks Carrie um I'm just going to click forward here [33:07] okay so um how we got introduced to the site is we are familiar with the owners [33:13] of the site um they own a restaurant near our office in the North Loop and um [33:18] and anyways in in talking with them we've we've heard some of the past stories of of what's came forward and [33:25] whatnot and so really our approach to this you know when when developing residential and residential [33:31] neighborhoods um there there's a lot to consider and I think the collaborative effort is you know first and foremost [33:37] when we go about these types of projects it's sitting down with people going to dinner tables hearing about what their concerns are and that's really the [33:43] approach that we've taken to uh today and and when we started having initial [33:48] conversations on you know what could may or may not work here really our [33:53] conversations were really focused around what's the lowest level of traffic that could be generated in the neighborhood [34:00] what fits in a residential use here but it's also small scale um because as you [34:07] know the site is extremely difficult to develop these triangular sites just have a whole new level of [34:13] complexities and so that's how we came forward with the the proposed memory care use here we're really excited about [34:20] more feedback we've had four or five different uh neighbor-based meetings a larger group uh just two weeks ago um [34:27] and we just this has just been a really good you know process and part of the journey of just collecting a lot of [34:32] different feedback and different opinions and aspects of you know a lot of people liked the restaurant a lot of [34:38] people don't like the restaurant so we you know we're uh we're we're we're neutral about that we just really want [34:44] to get capture everybody's feedback so we can assess you know the next steps forward um so I think some of the things [34:50] that were recurring in our discussions parking you know do we have enough parking will we have enough parking If [34:57] we don't have enough parking where will the people park um and how will that impact our neighborhood the access to [35:03] Eden Prairie Road um concern of ours as well we've put it in here from a life safety standpoint to show that there [35:09] could be access to Eden Prairie Road um I think we're we're again neutral we want to do what's best for the [35:15] neighborhood on that um we can um access um all of our needed deliveries visitors [35:23] we can do that and circulate them correctly on the site um again this is a very early diagrammatic so you know we [35:29] can work through that um one of the uh one of the requests was can we uh create an access or a drop off basically or [35:36] pickup off of Vernon so we've you know we've modeled in how that could potentially work um and then I think the [35:43] other um aspects were screening around the site so you'll see in the packet we've we've proposed three to four [35:49] different uh three excuse me not four but three different u fencing concepts [35:54] in here i think one of the the questions were you know what does a six foot high fence look like an 8 foot high a 10 foot [36:01] high fence look like so we've you know kind of modeled that in here and and reviewed that with neighbors as well [36:06] just so everybody kind of has an idea around that there's obviously a lot more that needs to go into that part of it [36:11] height is another question that's been raised you know at three stories we're consistent with the two condo buildings [36:18] down the next door kind of building is two stories technically of living but if you really look at the building it sits [36:24] about 25% of a floor out of the ground and then they have they have a um pitch [36:30] roof so effectively a three-story building which is which is what we would be so that that's been kind of some of [36:37] the feedback that we've uh received through this uh early part of the process and again tonight more than [36:43] happy to answer questions and also uh look for further feedback thank you [36:49] thank you very much so as Krie mentioned this this [36:54] whole conversation is kind of what the applicant is looking for feedback and [36:59] we're here to provide some non-binding recommendations and feedback as they [37:04] further develop but now is a good time for questions and answers between the [37:10] planning commission and staff as well as planning commission and the applicant team and then I'd say maybe it's worth [37:17] at the end we just go one at a time and kind of share our recommendations in a [37:23] concise manner if that makes sense with you guys sound good all right let's just open it to questions [37:32] thanks for the presentation i I said just one question on parking [37:37] um this this may be a ridiculous question but I just want to make sure I understand the math here my assumption [37:44] would be that the residents of a memory care facility would typically not drive [37:49] that's correct that correct that's correct okay so if we have a staff of eight and 10 spots and there's then [37:57] we're really talking about visitors using those two additional spots and potentially going on under the street is [38:03] that right that's correct okay and um [38:09] the the driveway to the east on Vernon looks like would that be abandoned the [38:16] existing driveway to the east that would yes so it' be torn up and planted presumably in the rightway correct okay [38:23] that's all I have thank you [38:28] i had a question um I don't know if you had discussed Carrie um is it going to [38:33] be an assisted living licensed memory care or a skilled nursing licensed memory care uh I believe it'd be [38:40] assisted living to me so just have we clarified that nuance [38:46] that it doesn't create a comp plan amendment we could get more feedback from Met [38:53] Council um with a formal application and that's my recogn [38:59] recollection um but we can confirm that with the operator oh so you guys will not be operating we would not be we'll [39:05] bring in a local operator here in the Twin Cities that we've done another three of these facilities with here okay [39:11] thank you [39:16] my question is similar about the operator the eight [39:22] staff might not know this but the eight staff is that eight 24 hours no a day or [39:32] kind of fluctuates throughout the day um so you know peak staff would be eight uh [39:38] overnight we would have four and then um really the average staff count is more [39:43] like six to seven uh and then they transition one staff member at a time so that's how you get to the eight uh [39:50] weekends if there's large community events um you know we anticipate that could go to 8 to nine potentially uh [39:56] plus visitors um that are there uh and then the average visit times from um [40:01] from our experiences in that twohour time frame uh some can be longer for sure uh but uh two hours is kind of our [40:08] average visit time when we have uh guests on site okay thank you um and [40:13] then when you were talking with neighbors or neighbors of this or people [40:19] in the neighborhood um did any of them because part of me is like one of the [40:25] nice things about having this in a residential neighborhood is that someone could have a family member there and you [40:33] know walk down the street right like if you grew up in an area or used to an area kind of moving in here had has [40:40] anybody kind of talked to you about that at all have you heard some of that yeah at our larger uh neighborhood group [40:45] meeting that we had I believe it was two weeks ago two Saturdays ago um that was that that that aspect was brought up if [40:51] you know kind of providing that full life cycle housing within this neighborhood for folks that um to your [40:57] point that may have grown up here maybe they spend a certain period of time in life here they may have family members that live here so it's closer for them [41:03] to be here and within their community okay um yeah I'd be interested to seeing [41:08] what the parking study says but I mean I think there's some benefits to being in the neighborhood and also knowing that [41:15] the staff rotates in and it out gives you a little bit more flexibility in the [41:21] parking um and I wanted to ask about the you got [41:27] there was a request for the drop off on Vernon yeah so one of the the question was is [41:35] if ambulances are going to be coming if there's uh bus drop offs for the bus [41:40] takes folks out to activities and whatnot um so the question was you know is there an opportunity to drop off or [41:47] do pickups um in either way whether that's medical service or whatnot off of Vernon versus bringing them into the [41:54] actual uh parking area so what we've really done is just to illustrate you know the turn radius could potentially [41:59] work there for that you don't have any feeling one way or the other um I think [42:05] it'd be nice yeah you know have have a nice formal drop off if it's not for somebody that needs to stay you know for [42:11] an extended period of time at the site um or if you're picking somebody up yeah i think it could be nice it could it'd [42:17] be kind of a nice solution to you know when people are have a a flexible five or 10 minute you know need uh versus [42:24] taking up a parking stall for somebody that maybe needs to be there a little longer [42:30] and that that may be one thing you know on Vernon because it's [42:38] busy and if someone something's there it makes me concerned having that off [42:44] Vernon in that way i' I'd rather see it someplace where there's a little bit more room around it it's a little it [42:50] feels a little tight for Vernon and then the other question is do you have any safety concerns of the residents and [42:57] Vernon being accessed uh no um you know these facilities are you know quite [43:02] locked down okay very secure that's one of the first and foremost um uh aspects [43:07] of how they're designed and secured from an internal uh aspect plus the the staff council there to watch that you know we [43:14] really only have three I think maybe we have four units on that first floor which is the highest yeah we have four [43:20] back here um which is really the highest uh likelihood of somebody to wander um [43:26] okay and there's a lot of different design meth methods that get incorporated within these buildings to dissuade people from being able to [43:32] recognize an exit point uh and whatnot so u I I have little concern just due to [43:38] the fact that we've done other facilities like this and even kind of more of like an urban setting you would [43:43] call it and uh and we've been successful at those okay [43:52] um and when you come back you were talking about the height of this [43:57] building versus the height of the condo building um can you kind of do an elevation along the street and kind of [44:02] Absolutely okay yeah we'll do a we'll do a in-depth height study with the surrounding okay thank you thank you [44:14] just uh two questions well just one can you talk just a little bit about you know the reaction you're getting as [44:20] you've kind of put the idea out there and the concept into the community and you know if there's any kind of like [44:26] common themes and and how folks have been reacting and then just specifically I don't have a perfect understanding of [44:34] like in reality how a memory care building works but um how you were just [44:41] touching on it a little bit but like for the folks who live [44:46] how supervised are they with respect to like leaving and walking around yeah so [44:52] maybe I'll take because I think you just mentioned it but I Yeah I'll take the second question there um because I think [44:58] it's a really important one um they are they have full-time care attendants at the site so each level has its own [45:04] designated care attendant and that's why we have four overnight in case somebody on one of the other floors needs to come [45:09] in and sub in for somebody because they need additional help on another floor um but the uh the individuals are not [45:15] allowed to leave on their own uh if they are to leave the confines of the building they would be supervised um so [45:22] that is um that's just how they're operated at that point in time um from feedback so we've received I would say [45:31] you know a lot of the the positive feedback has been from our uh close surrounding neighbors um people that I [45:38] think um want to lower traffic use um I would say as we get to um further away [45:44] from the site we've had uh folks that really were looking forward to the restaurant um but they are um I think [45:51] generally supportive of of what we're proceeding with here if the if a restaurant isn't going to go here uh [45:57] because it is a low um you know a low traffic generation it's a um type of use [46:03] it doesn't create a lot of noise um visitors are here for a very limited time you know they're kind of gone by that six or seven o'clock time frame [46:09] each day um they could come earlier in the mornings but you know it's a it's kind of a it's a more I would say it [46:17] just kind of fits better within the fabric of a single family residential neighborhood [46:25] okay so I I'll build Well first of all thank you for being here um probably [46:31] doing could be doing other things tonight on a very nice night but we appreciate you coming in front of us [46:37] um so I guess building on some of the questions about the the site and the memory care and whatnot um the nature of [46:43] the site do you think that the one thing that stuck out to me a little bit um was the how small the patio and outdoor [46:50] spaces do you think this that space is adequate in terms of outdoor space for the residents i know they're not going [46:55] to be going out very frequently like you said it's very locked down but um there's not a lot of close i mean it's [47:02] not easy to get to a park from here and from this particular location so just wondering yeah you know so each floor [47:09] like I mentioned um we have uh four units on the first floor and then this [47:15] you know this potentially could extend up we don't have it shown as extending up here you know it could be like a [47:20] screen in porch concept if if we were to do that um you know you would have [47:26] probably more adequate level of outdoor space for each floor um but I think that [47:31] is something that you know taken as a feedback point is there an opportunity here to create uh more outdoor space for [47:36] people because it is the nice you know aspect of in the summers and the springs and the early fall time frames it's nice [47:42] to be able to use that type of space yeah um All right so one of the things [47:49] that you know immediately was drawn to my attention with the access here is the concern around access to Vernon and you [47:56] know bring traffic um potentially impeding traffic there and whatnot um what do you think and this would be a [48:04] potential you know pros cons really cons if you were to limit access to Eden [48:09] Prairie Road only for this site um well the traffic and the delivery traffic [48:16] trash etc all have to come through the neighborhood i mean now trash you would say already is coming through the [48:21] neighborhood so that's probably not a new new theme but you do have deliveries i mean we're using box trucks so the [48:27] smaller delivery trucks but um you'd have new traffic generation within the neighborhood and um and then any [48:34] visitors coming to the site you'd have additional traffic there I'd say potentially up to 10 additional cars at [48:41] any given time okay okay um few questions for the city [48:47] actually now for Carrie um the first one coming off Lincoln [48:54] small area plan are there any concerns around sewage capacity at this site [48:59] yeah that is one thing that we are exploring uh with Met Council just what is the the sweet spot here not sure if [49:07] we've landed on on that but we think preliminarily there is capacity okay [49:14] okay um as far as parking goes right so we've talked I know there's a few [49:19] concerns already raised about parking um number of spots etc and spillage over to Eden Prairie are there any parking [49:25] restrictions on Eden Prairie in around that location currently not that I'm aware of at this [49:32] time um you know should this go in and there's parking issues you know it's one [49:37] of those that could be considered by the traffic safety committee and maybe something gets posted but nothing at [49:44] this time okay um another one that I think would be brought up as we talked about the [49:51] comprehensive plan and how this fits into medium medium density residential [49:57] um just comment on the fact I guess potent that the 5 to 12 um residents per [50:04] acre is guidance right it's not a strict number right because this this would [50:09] certainly be above 5 to 12 right and it's an institutional use um but that doesn't mean it would not be permitted [50:15] here because it doesn't meet that density requirement yeah that was staff's first concern was I figured if [50:20] this was high density right and then when we dug into it a little more um Met [50:26] Council has advised that we shouldn't take density into account that it's um more like a new nursing home and instit [50:34] institutional use yeah I just wanted to hear that discussed a little bit more just because [50:39] you know the lift would obviously be a lot heavier if this was a comprehensive plan amendment as we've seen that's a [50:46] huge point because Yeah it goes from a four-fifths vote of the council to three-fifths right right [50:53] um I guess did staff have any concerns how this I mean it sort of in in essence [51:00] conflicts a bit with our comprehensive plan and really our code now so this is P would be PRD5 not R1 or R2 right um [51:08] but it's pretty much primarily kind of a residential um and we say in our code right you know that corner lots no [51:15] driveways shall intersect with a street designated um by the comprehensive plan as a collector arterial and this is an a [51:21] minor arterial um that's designated by the comprehensive plan so did staff have any thoughts that they shared on that i [51:27] mean in addition to the concern about the cut through um that this could potentially create for traffic uh yes so [51:34] yeah staff is definitely concerned about the dual access um just one whether it [51:41] be Vernon or Eden Prairie works better um I think from a staff perspective [51:46] again we'll get comment from a traffic consultant as well as our city engineer looking at it a little closer i'm [51:53] concerned with that um double access off of Vernon the county is going to it's [51:58] it's their road so um they would have the jurisdiction whether to allow that or not um so yeah still um a lot more [52:07] investigation needs to be done on the on the access and traffic okay okay and [52:13] then the only other thought I had about the access piece was with whether um our emergency services have like handed any [52:21] comment on this in terms of if you were to limit this to Eden and Prairie Road only would they be worried about response times for ambulances anything [52:28] like that probably not but just wondered if they commented at all not [52:33] specifically to that um but we would certainly have that if if access is just [52:38] proposed off Feed and Prairie Road well either way no matter how it comes back Yeah we'll get that comment yeah okay [52:45] thanks yeah i'm just trying to anticipate where the discussion could lead with the community and whatnot and everything so appreciate it and thank [52:52] you can I ask what kind of box trucks come [52:59] here i mean if they're like FedEx or UPS aren't they already in the neighborhood or are they specific you know that's a really good point they are uh for food [53:06] delivery and lenin pickups and drop offs okay primarily [53:11] yeah and wondering if like there could be um ambulance access access or um [53:18] Cisco food delivery on one side and someone else on the other if people [53:25] are worried about the cut through i mean I think there's engineering room have a lot of good solutions too okay [53:38] thank you for for presenting and and just being open to feedback i appreciate that um I'm just trying to think at a really [53:45] high level and then just kind of put out some thoughts I guess you could consider as you continue to refine the sketch [53:53] plan um so I'm sure like many of us have probably experienced you know family [53:58] members having to go to memory care and and and what that's like so there's always like a lot of families um that [54:05] that show up you know not just one car but you know something happened to grandma you know and then you call your [54:10] brother you call your auntie so one person could easily generate three four cars right that would show up to to [54:17] support and we also have um cases where ambulances would be called more [54:23] frequently uh to this site than usual right so it would certainly drive some [54:28] more traffic so I'll just kind of lay out that high level because the nature of the business with kind of drives [54:35] different assets within the city right um you know spike in traffic if incident [54:41] occurred which also brings a spike in ambulance and maybe fire you know you know how those things show up i was just [54:48] trying to think through the closest fire station to this location would be the one on [54:54] um on on Tracy Avenue and if they were to make a trip here they would take [55:00] Oolinger Boulevard and probably go up Oolinger Road and then go up Vernon that's like the shortest path I would [55:06] guess um to get there which would certainly just drive more traffic or [55:13] ambulance responses through those neighborhoods to respond to something there [55:18] so that's just something that the residents should kind of consider that it's going to certainly bring you know [55:24] the fire trucks blaring through coming through and then once they do arrive right I'm thinking here that they're [55:30] going to need to find a way to to turn a much a a large vehicle around um to to [55:38] respond and so to the question that was earlier you know just the turn radius and and the coming off of Vernon to come [55:46] into this lot I think really think through that part right because um you [55:51] would not only have families responding to something happened to grandma you have ambulances responding so you're [55:58] just going to have three or four vehicles just all of a sudden show up and they need to coordinate to get in [56:03] there and deal with a situation right so getting the parking and the moving movement of vehicles through here would [56:09] be would be really important and it just seems like that section where you have it you know [56:15] covered in red there it just seems like it's not enough um space something about [56:21] that seems congested and I and I'm not sure but if you model through what that looks like that would certainly help um [56:29] and just kind of show us like how would all that all that coordination happen in that small space um would be important [56:38] uh in terms of um parking for sure this is under parked i think I was curious if [56:46] the cut through area that you show here if that could just be converted into [56:52] parking spots and you put up some kind of barrier so cars don't drive through [56:57] if that's going to within your control or the city's control I'm not sure but that's just one idea right so instead of [57:04] parking on Eden Prairie Road you convert that little gray section there into parking spots potentially to take some [57:12] staff parking and put it there ideally someone who's going to be on the site more frequently like 24 hours like a [57:18] director or nurse or something like that what I would do then is is free up more space I [57:25] think for families to to park in that in that area um so you're not taking up [57:32] valuable family parking spaces with staff you know you're kind of shifting it a little bit so that's just one idea [57:38] just to help accommodate families um it was touched on with [57:43] recreation a little bit um with the patio outdoor space if that's sufficient [57:49] again I'm not sure um memory care uh what the requirements would be i'm [57:54] guessing that a lot of residents would have a range of different needs um some would be more mobile than others [58:01] and some might require more outdoor space of course Bredesen Park is further [58:08] down the street where the crosswalk is and you could cross over the crosswalk to get into Bredesen Park to enjoy all [58:14] that park space that's there um but to cross the street there's no crosswalks [58:20] in this area so something might have to be considered there um cuz I'm guessing [58:26] someone in a wheelchair or someone who doesn't cross as quickly you can't run across Veron fast enough and so you you [58:32] you truly have to use the crosswalks um to get to Bredesen Park so maybe just [58:38] some some thought on what the patio space needs are and if folks needed to [58:45] access more park space you know just what are your thoughts on how they get there safely and [58:52] effectively um I think we talked on traffic a little [58:58] bit uh but Vernon definitely is a is a is a [59:03] hightraic area and so you know turning into here [59:09] coming out of here we've we've had sketch plans before where even like with the restaurant idea right questions come [59:15] up of you're you're going northbound you want to take this left turn you're going [59:20] southbound you want to take you know a right turn um how do you do that in a [59:25] way that is efficient so maybe the that north entry point you might open that up so you can [59:32] kind of go down and come out or you keep what you have here but I'm sure the [59:38] parking study would help show that but how would cars come in and come out effectively i don't know if a traffic [59:45] light or a stop sign in this area down the road would make sense to slow things [59:50] down um especially with a memory care location so close by right um so [59:56] something there to consider so I guess that's just some some like highle thoughts I have on it [1:00:04] and just two specific questions is um and you I think you probably touched [1:00:10] on it earlier but have you chatted with city emergency response teams or not yet [1:00:16] on their thoughts on responding in this area and getting to this site effectively we have not no [1:00:24] okay so I think they would definitely be kind of plugged in and in terms of uh [1:00:32] operations I think you mentioned that you've you you certainly have experience working with operators [1:00:39] um on this site but you're mainly a developer so you would ideally just take [1:00:44] the guidance of what the operators want to see and try to conform it to this space is that the nature of how I think [1:00:51] that's exactly it yep okay so I'm guessing um there's no [1:00:57] operators in on your team here just design team okay yeah i think maybe on [1:01:04] the next go around the operations would be really important to understand um because you know every business is a [1:01:11] little bit different gas station is different and how that flows you know restaurants are different and memory [1:01:16] care is now different and so we're trying to figure out you know how does memory care operations work for this site you know within a 24-hour cycle [1:01:23] what does that look like um so I think that would be helpful to to connect with next time but yeah that's that's just [1:01:30] some of the considerations that I have um at this time uh with a few ideas but [1:01:36] um I'm I'm very open to to hearing what what feedback uh you get tonight thanks [1:01:42] again [1:01:47] uh thanks very much for being here um very interesting idea yeah I only have one question and um that is I'm really [1:01:53] just trying to get a handle on the number of people that are going to be in the facility so that I can then think [1:02:01] some more about the parking um so you had mentioned um I think 8 and 4 in [1:02:08] terms of daytime nighttime and that's that's some uh variation of nursing [1:02:14] staff I assume okay and they would be employees or maybe you don't know exactly their employment um status but I [1:02:21] in in looking at what you submitted and you know you talk about having a spa and [1:02:26] a salon room and activities room I I my thought is that [1:02:33] um in actuality there'll be a lot more people there and they might or might not be employees and they might be [1:02:38] independent contractors but you've got people who are delivering the meals that are all done on the first floor they've [1:02:43] got to get up to all the rooms there's no cooking facilities so I assume meals are all delivered uh there are there is [1:02:50] a commercial kitchen in the building so you'll need somebody to deliver all all [1:02:55] three meals a day um and then there's activities provided and then there's [1:03:01] janitorial staff that I assume comes in you know um this will have a um a unique [1:03:09] um janitorial needs I with a facility like this so then that means more [1:03:14] janitorial staff which of course you'd contract out they're not going to be employees but there's more people there [1:03:20] in the facility parking taking the bus whatever um aids I think some people [1:03:26] would need more than what the facility supplies some people are going to need full-time or during the night so I I I [1:03:34] think um I'm thinking um eight and four [1:03:40] particularly the eight part um is probably a little shy um when you c [1:03:46] consider the activities the spa you're doing if you're you know you're doing people's cutting hair and things like [1:03:52] that um and having music programs and stuff we're looking at potentially am I [1:03:57] wrong I mean no you are wrong yes um that that is not the staffing plan for [1:04:03] the site so the numbers we presented are from the operator they're not our best [1:04:08] guess or anything of that nature these are the numbers that they presented to us uh within the last week on the [1:04:13] property of what they proposed for a staffing plan for the site um I think you're totally right in the fact there [1:04:20] there could be variations of that absolutely to the need and whatnot but um the way that these small standalone [1:04:26] facilities operate are vastly different than the larger you know 100 plus unit [1:04:32] buildings where you have the really wide spectrum of care between independent assisted and then uh memory care where [1:04:40] this is a pretty specified need um now there's a variety a range of acuity [1:04:45] within that need but I think to estimate that we would have 20 staff members here [1:04:50] I think would be from what we're told completely out of line u from what their [1:04:56] estimations are right but what occurs to me is the fact that um since the need [1:05:01] might be less than what you're saying is that you're going to have more people coming and going as opposed to you know [1:05:07] like on-site or full-time or something like that but yeah there'll be Yeah definitely people thank you [1:05:20] just one more quick question it sounds like you have already identified an operator we have yes okay and they've [1:05:25] been involved with you and Exactly okay good thank you [1:05:33] yeah thanks again Jeff for being here and presenting um you know what's not [1:05:40] being said is this is obviously a very is it's a small site uh tight site tough [1:05:48] to build anything on um I think the amenity you're proposing [1:05:54] the memory care building or a senior care is needed necessary would [1:06:01] be a great amen amenity for the neighborhood [1:06:07] uh you probably got to build it one unit size by 30 30 stories high to to [1:06:13] get it in there but um you know isn't real practical i guess I I echo a lot of [1:06:20] what I'm not going to repeat what what was said because a lot of good things were said i think the uh just knowing [1:06:25] Hen County and kind of how they react to roadways and whatnot they're not going to be real excited about that in and out [1:06:32] so close to each other but what Quincy Commissioner mentioned um you know that [1:06:39] north access and then running a road kind of parallel to Vernon down takes a [1:06:44] lot more green space out but might be a little safer and especially since there's already an entrance and and exits at those locations um or or near [1:06:52] those locations um my my real question my real comment is it's not really [1:06:58] appropriate because we're talking about this this um 616 Vernon but [1:07:05] um it appears the the condo unit to the west [1:07:10] is two and a half stories you mentioned I believe mhm um what would the setback [1:07:16] on that be and appears I have plenty of room there has there been any discussion [1:07:22] with them about acquiring some of their land um to make something like this work [1:07:28] there yeah we have um we have talked to a couple of the uh condo owners they [1:07:34] were at one of our early neighborhood meetings and I think that is uh you know a conversation if they're up for it we [1:07:40] we definitely can have that conversation i think really what we've been more or less waiting on is when we get through [1:07:47] this process of the sketch plan review kick off the traffic study um you know really solidify the staffing uh plan [1:07:55] which I think we're you know very closer there at this point on that side of it but then also the guest traffic [1:08:01] generation etc just to really ensure that we we do it right for sure yeah and I'm not thinking just for additional [1:08:07] parking or anything but to slide the whole property further you know the building further to the west and and uh [1:08:14] then have than have ample parking um but again that takes a lot more [1:08:21] effort uh and whatnot but it it looks like they have 80 to 100 ft there it's it's hard to tell how much but they got [1:08:27] extra you know they might have 50 feet or something there extra that they could sell off and if they could that might [1:08:33] make something work but again just talking in hypotheticals which you know I think this is anyway so just wanted to [1:08:40] bring that up and it sounds like you've been thinking along those lines and and talking to other people so [1:08:46] um uh let's just see exiting yeah I guess that's really all I [1:08:52] have right now thank you yeah yeah i I have no further questions [1:08:59] uh but maybe it's worth just going down the line and just sharing final comments so you can kind of take all that [1:09:06] feedback in one hi um so I've spent the last 20 years of my life in senior [1:09:12] living operations so I have some uh some thoughts um I asked initially [1:09:19] about how it would be licensed because that does speak to the emergency egress [1:09:25] plan and um as your architect can tell you there are different ways that memory care residents um do actively try to [1:09:33] alope and um in certain cases under certain building conditions right you can push the panic bar and in 30 seconds [1:09:40] it releases and um I've been a part of projects in 50th and France there at the [1:09:46] waters of Adina and the waters of Excelsier and I think Commissioner Padilla is absolutely right the operator [1:09:53] will tell you exactly how many employees they're going to have on site but you're going to have therapy come in you're going to have people delivering food um [1:10:00] I'm not worried at all about the ambulance or the hospital because the operational staff will have a great [1:10:05] relationship with them people call and say what kind of emergency it is and they come without their sirens on so I'm [1:10:11] not I'm not worried about that but I I am worried that realistically we're not talking about the right number of people [1:10:18] whether or not they're employees and I'm concerned that while it is memory care and it will be a lockdown facility um in [1:10:24] Minnesota depending on what kind of lensure it is you can have more ambulatory folks with dementia and those [1:10:31] people have behaviors and want to get out they they they will make that sort of their life's goal and I would really [1:10:39] hope that the next time we see the you that you have your operator here and that they can really speak to how this [1:10:45] design will protect the people in it um and how [1:10:51] the enclosed outdoor space how the parking you know how drop off works i [1:10:57] mean these people aren't likely going to be going to the park they're not likely to be going out to Target unless a [1:11:03] family member takes them one- on-one specifically um depending on again how it's licensed i saw that some of the [1:11:10] units were noticed uh listed as short-term stay that may be a different category of of people and and I think as [1:11:18] we think about how this parcel is used um we need to be mindful of that um of [1:11:25] who actually is going to be in there [1:11:31] um I think that might be my only note i mean I appreciate that the renderings with the eight and 10 foot fences um but [1:11:39] I don't know that that is the solution for this particular population and [1:11:46] um I I just yeah I I guess I need to understand because you are the proposal [1:11:51] is for a business that has a particularly vulnerable population and it absolutely I believe strongly it [1:11:58] should be in residential but 20 people in this building on this site that isn't really thoughtful I think would be [1:12:04] really negligent and if you go and talk to folks at both the waters of Adina or [1:12:09] I'm sorry the waters of Minneapolis and in the waters in Excelsier I think you will find that them being located on [1:12:15] busy streets in an urban area has um brought challenges to them with their [1:12:21] memory care residents that maybe they weren't initially anticipating so I'm sure your operator is fabulous but I I [1:12:28] really feel like the future of this design um needs more informed [1:12:34] understanding of how that operator thinks they're going to work this building on that space [1:12:44] thank you i I think the [1:12:54] um you know for for me I think is I mentioned earlier I really love that [1:12:59] this is kind of life cycle um you know that people can raise their kids um you [1:13:06] know turn over their homes you know to their children their grandchildren and like stay in the area is a great thing [1:13:13] that this is a modest small facility I think is a good thing so I really [1:13:18] appreciate that i do um I have driven my bike down Vernon [1:13:26] Avenue a couple of times and I always really I go through the neighborhood as [1:13:31] much as I can i cut down that sidewalk over there but going down that stretch of Vernon on a and that's a bike lane [1:13:38] there is not very nice so for me that [1:13:44] that boulevard section between the street and the facade is important and [1:13:51] um you know so I think having divided bike lane which is a city thing but having a nice kind of boulevard and a [1:13:57] sidewalk for people to walk on especially if those are your common areas and a lot of green there really [1:14:04] kind of buffering that whole strip um as as much as on your property is [1:14:11] important and um and then I'm assuming there's no kind of um materials on here [1:14:18] but have it look as residential as possible right and I think there's some great you know condominiums and other [1:14:25] buildings around there to kind of look at and that's it for me thank you [1:14:33] thanks for the presentation so um maybe I can comment on a different angle this [1:14:38] these comments were really good um I think it's important i think we all [1:14:44] think it's important that something happens here you know we've all been through it with this site and like [1:14:50] there's probably total consensus that something needs to happen and so um [1:14:55] maybe I can just focus on the likelihood of this being the thing that could happen [1:15:01] um I don't know how familiar you are with the history of this site but for whatever reason this one has generated [1:15:08] more controversy and like fear and anger and then other feelings of like [1:15:13] excitement or whatever than anything other than maybe one or two other projects um the the last time this site [1:15:21] was being talked about a high quality pizza place was being proposed and people really got upset about that um [1:15:28] and you know the I remember there was there were some folks in the neighborhood who who really thought it would be amenity but there was a louder [1:15:35] u maybe smaller maybe bigger but louder kind of upset contingent that was uh really opposed to that type of use [1:15:42] happening here um I remember the the hear the themes you know there might be crime that that would occur there might [1:15:49] be people from other places that come and like walk around the streets at night or something um and [1:15:57] what not with a dry clean yeah drugs the drunk the drunks oh the drugs okay i [1:16:03] forgot about the drugs but like crime drugs people walking in the streets people from other places like that's [1:16:09] what was driving the conversation last time um appropriately or not and I think [1:16:15] that uh none of those harms are going to be [1:16:21] plausibly a concern here nor were they the last time but I think you've got a really good shot at getting something [1:16:28] through like this um personally I don't I don't think that there's a huge public [1:16:36] like a development related benefit that's going to spin off from this the way that maybe a commercial use would [1:16:43] have generated um I can't think of much but I do think [1:16:48] developing the site is beneficial um but for this particular neighborhood and [1:16:54] like the vocal and kind of group of folks who live really close to the site [1:17:00] I don't think there could be anything better um this delivers on everything [1:17:05] folks were concerned about and wanting um there's not going to be any crime um [1:17:11] there's there wasn't going to be before but there certainly isn't going to be with this there aren't going to be any [1:17:16] people walking around it's not even permitted uh the residents are kept inside almost as via via rule so I'm [1:17:25] just saying like this isn't like we listened last time um there aren't going [1:17:31] to be that many people from other parts of the of the community coming other than maybe family to [1:17:37] visit in many ways like the like the soft qualities of this fit perfectly [1:17:43] with what people said they wanted last time the pizza place failed and then it has the added benefit of being [1:17:50] residential which is what the council said was important because they said that the comp plan is a promise made [1:17:55] needs to be a promise kept and that was a theme that other people said too and this is consistent with that so um the [1:18:03] operational concerns that Commissioner Honaman raised are I think legit and [1:18:08] deserve a fair amount of extra thought i don't know anything about that but she does and so that could maybe throw a [1:18:15] little bit of a wrench into it or would need to be ironed out but politically or just like from a palatability standpoint [1:18:22] this is like a strike down the middle of the strike zone for this area um even [1:18:27] though it might not be considered that from like a planning type of group so uh [1:18:33] there there I can't even think of that many objections one could be parking like people might park on the street [1:18:40] sometimes when they visit that was an objection to the pizza place too i think it's invalid because the streets are [1:18:46] public and people can park on the public streets when they go somewhere um I also don't think it's a big deal because [1:18:52] there's apartment buildings right down the street and people park on the street all the time in this neighborhood and it's not controversial so I don't really [1:18:59] expect that to be a huge barrier for you and then um the variances uh seem pretty reasonable too [1:19:07] i mean it's an unbuildable site unless those variances are granted and so for all those reasons I think this one might be the [1:19:14] one that that gets there if you can if you can address some of the operational concerns and uh and tweak it a little [1:19:20] bit yeah thank you hard to follow up but I'll bring it back [1:19:28] down from the high level political a little bit i won't touch that um want to come back to this just the [1:19:35] site really in general itself right so just initial thoughts on that and execution here um as as takeaways [1:19:46] um so I mean obviously initial thought or a few initial thoughts I had when I looked at this I was like seems crammed [1:19:53] with the V 0 foot setback and and whatnot but the site is crammed it's a [1:19:59] corner there i mean we saw that red triangle of death for development there i mean there's really nothing you can do [1:20:05] um on here without significant variances right if you want it to be a useful spot [1:20:11] um so crammed sure but that's not really you know a concern or it's we're going [1:20:17] to have to overcome that that's the nature of the site um I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the traffic [1:20:22] study um particularly as it affects Vernon just because honestly you know I still as it pertains to our goals to [1:20:30] move traffic away from arterials and avoid congestion and whatnot and how this would you know the amount of [1:20:37] traffic coming in and out of this site um and the potential uh to create conflict on Vernon uh I would feel [1:20:44] better about this if there was no access off of Vernon um I'd be curious to see what that does from an operational [1:20:51] design standpoint and how that could be managed i mean maybe you could do even just have access off Vernon but have it [1:20:58] only be a gate that only emergency and delivery can access or something like that and then you don't have a pass [1:21:03] through and and whatnot um but you know it just again that congestion piece we [1:21:10] identified Vernon and really that whole stretch as something that could be an opportunity for gentle density in the [1:21:15] city right as an area that's a area of potential change um and really an opportunity for [1:21:22] increased public transportation movement for for people right so if again just avoiding that right conflict would be [1:21:29] would be great to see um the patio space you know it's and you're limited depend [1:21:35] on on how big your spot is and I don't know I don't think we need a ton of it maybe moving it off of ver away from [1:21:42] Vernon and having it like tucked away back differently on uh north side of the site or something like that might make [1:21:48] it a little bit more pleasant um don't know how you would you know necessarily design that out but I think it it's [1:21:53] something that could be done and might might enhance the site a little bit [1:22:00] um and that's that's really it if you know it's just it's that access off of Vernon for me um that's this the [1:22:08] sticking point with the design um but again you everything else you're really just so limited by the geography there [1:22:15] and how this is plotted out so so yeah so thanks for coming out thank you [1:22:24] thank you again i I know I covered some of my comments earlier in the in the question section but um yeah you know [1:22:30] really good feedback that you're getting i think for me if I were to boil it down I would say um you know the the use [1:22:39] would fit for this location memory care um probably much better so than other uh [1:22:47] plans that we've reviewed um the parking and the movement of traffic I think if I [1:22:55] were to rank the highest challenges it would be that um so I know you're going [1:23:00] to work with each traffic team to to look at that i would certainly run a lot of different scenarios of where you [1:23:07] could put parking right assuming you could move the massing around anywhere you like you could move the massing more [1:23:12] westward put the parking in front you could move it different locations to see what would make sense some of the [1:23:18] guiding thoughts I would have is you know if you could definitely share based on the operations of this location you [1:23:25] know making it easy to get in and out for families and residents i mean for families and and folks who want to use [1:23:31] the site um you know how can you make it super simple like you totally get where [1:23:37] you need to come in where you need to come out and not difficult for folks to maneuver through it um some congestion [1:23:43] would occur uh I would expect um but if you could minimize that somehow um that [1:23:50] would be the idealist situation um you get the least amount of push back if you could figure out if folks could not be [1:23:56] on Vernon um ideally but if some does spill over how do you minimize that as [1:24:02] much as possible and you know uh based on some of the feedback right um with this kind [1:24:09] of lo you know location the types of services that it would require the [1:24:14] contracted services um I totally get the operator says hey seven people max but I [1:24:20] would try to pro you know plan for or or risk assess if you might need more um [1:24:29] just to accommodate for for the different services that might need to come in and out if if you could crack [1:24:36] that nut this is going to happen you know and so I think these are some of the challenges [1:24:41] that that that this site has totally get you know the the issue with this triangle a lot is it's been really hard [1:24:48] for a lot of people and we've been trying to make it work but I think if you could identify ways of making those [1:24:56] movement traffic parking uh easy uh to navigate and minimally [1:25:04] congested I think this would be a a great win and this site would finally get some of that development that it [1:25:10] solely needs so thanks [1:25:18] again when I look at some of the other um either memory care or um nursing [1:25:26] facilities in Edina I think of um Heritage I think of Walker I think of Sunrise [1:25:33] [Music] um and one thing that that um they all [1:25:39] have is um because the residents are generally slow and need you know [1:25:45] additional time and help and stuff um they have covered you know like covered walkways or covered porticos and I don't [1:25:52] know if that's what you're anticipating in this red space or whether or not [1:25:57] that's simply a a drop off for commercial things and um but I would [1:26:03] strongly suggest that um uh in inclement weather you have some [1:26:09] way for the residents to be able to walk and be protected um that's obviously pretty minor i do [1:26:17] think that this is a very unique opportunity for this space um as some of the other commissioners have mentioned [1:26:24] um and I think it fits well and um I saw another property many many years ago be [1:26:31] developed in Edina that worked out very well and it uses the neighborhood [1:26:37] teenagers for this food servers and stuff and they walk or they ride their bikes which is really helpful but having [1:26:44] said that um if that doesn't end up being the case I'm very concerned about the parking um and whether that be as I [1:26:50] said I think the numbers of people who will be working there whether they're employees or not in non-medical capacity [1:26:58] um is probably double what your guideline what the guidelines are that you're going with so I think that's an [1:27:05] issue um and then I worry too about [1:27:11] um emergency vehicles again when you look at these other three um the three [1:27:16] that come to mind that are in Edina um half the time you drive by there's an ambulance in front of the building um so [1:27:23] I think you know great care has to be taken to make sure that they have access [1:27:28] uninterrupted access access access where other people can still get around and that they can do whatever it is that [1:27:35] they need to do because that's an important component um of the services but I also think it's facility-wise it's [1:27:43] a great opportunity so thank you i hope there can be some reconfiguration or something that makes it work appreciate [1:27:50] that thanks for coming in tonight um I think [1:27:55] this is a positive inclusive addition to our community i really support the project i'm glad you're doing it um I [1:28:03] won't repeat all of the things I already heard my fellow commissioner say that I agree with i'm generally on board with [1:28:10] every single thing that was said the only the only thing that I'm struggling with a little bit and I don't know what the right answer is but I'll just uh [1:28:17] build on it it feels to me like the right place to enter is off Vernon and we've approved [1:28:25] other projects that have entrances off Vernon so not to say that we have to be [1:28:30] consistent all the time but I'm not too concerned about that as a as a potential it seems like [1:28:38] the operator would have a better time with deliveries and trucks coming in if he didn't have to back out onto Vernon [1:28:46] so that's why it makes sense to have an exit or access on Eden Prairie Road also [1:28:53] so I can see the need for an entrance and an exit i can see the danger of [1:28:59] having a cut through into the neighborhood i can see that the operator probably wouldn't like that that much [1:29:04] it's not going to increase the traffic on Eden Prairie Road because there's it's kind of a dead spot there the only people are going to use the cutthrough [1:29:10] are people who live up there so I I I think there might be an [1:29:16] opportunity i mean you have experts who know this much better than I but there might be an opportunity for a gate and a [1:29:22] walkway on the Eden Prairie roadside that lets trucks out and lets people in [1:29:27] who are parked on Eden Prairie Road but just not doesn't make it a new street to get in and out of the neighborhood so [1:29:34] that's the only thing I'm I'm thinking about overall it's a tough spot to work in and I think this is [1:29:40] a a potentially wonderful benefit for our community and a nice way to use the space so thank you thanks [1:29:52] sharing a mic here tonight so um thanks again for being here uh as I mentioned [1:29:58] before the um I I don't have a topographical look on this but knowing [1:30:03] the site fairly well it's it's relatively flat it starts going downhill as you go to the west i don't know if [1:30:10] this site starts going downhill that way or not uh within the site or if it's [1:30:15] further to the west but the the only reason I mentioned that is I think the only thing that that I see as being a [1:30:21] major stumbling block might be the threetory height that you have i know you [1:30:26] explain how the pitch roof and everything but if it could be buried a half a half a story like the adjacent [1:30:32] buildings I know that adds a lot of difficulty to the resident type that's there and access in and out and whatnot [1:30:40] still obviously going to have to have an elevator in the building but um that's my thought and then maybe shifting the [1:30:46] building more to the the west up against you know closer to that building to share that that same height would would [1:30:53] make the appearance look better uh you might fight a little bit you know twist [1:30:58] it turn it however you you can fill that space i think if you're able to possibly purchase a few 10 15 feet [1:31:06] from the neighbor you you you'll give yourself a little more breathing room but um that may be a challenge um I just [1:31:14] think that the height ultimately from the neighbors standpoint the single family homes uh you know going full I [1:31:21] don't know what the height you had 30 feet or if it was uh 40 ft what you have probably between 32 to 35 ft okay um [1:31:29] might be a challenge so my only thought is if you're able to come in on on that west side somehow with a uh um you know [1:31:37] at at the first floor grade and and have the rest of it buried somewhat might it [1:31:42] might help but uh it's a tough site so I wish you luck and uh I I do like the use [1:31:48] of the land for this pro this type of property so thanks again for coming out thanks [1:31:54] all right thank you i'll start with some positives here [1:32:00] appreciate everyone else's feedback is very thorough um luckily a lot of my feedback just deviates in general so it [1:32:06] won't be new but um I appreciate the process here it's clear that you've gone [1:32:13] about a much more deliberate and inclusive process to [1:32:19] get to this point just based off of neighbor feedback that I've received and we've received some of the comments [1:32:27] um I think that helps any project that communitybased kind of process and [1:32:33] shared vision towards something that works so I know that immediate neighbors are pretty in favor of this and it [1:32:40] matches kind of what you said and as you get away people are more excited about [1:32:46] what it could have been and I guess from the um high level perspective you know as [1:32:53] Commissioner Borstein touched on um you know the planning commission supported the previous use and site development [1:33:01] and the council majority did too right i mean it [1:33:06] was 3 to2 but they had to get a super majority 4:1 [1:33:12] so they failed because there were two votes of disscent on that and some of [1:33:18] them were predicated on you know does this proposal [1:33:26] um degrade the value of the surrounding neighbors and ultimately that was what [1:33:32] was believed and I guess when I know I have this much [1:33:37] discretion because you know we're doing a resoning and we have a number of variances like unless something really [1:33:45] drastically changes here like I just don't know if my support will ever be won over here and I I mean I commend [1:33:52] what you're doing but kind of to what Commissioner Borenstein said like when [1:33:57] we have and this is just going high level the big why um I just I contend with the fact [1:34:05] that the crown jewel of Edina is our single family neighborhoods i think it's that with an asterisk it's that they're [1:34:12] p predicated on convenience and having things close by to do and as I look to [1:34:18] the future of Edina and you know our role thinking more long term about some of these decisions it's does this does [1:34:26] this get Edina toward where it ought to be and looking [1:34:32] at some of the future oriented guidance and my own personal opinions which is my [1:34:37] discretion you know what the previous proposal did was drew people in to walk [1:34:43] to bike you know it it brought the community in and that's what I firmly [1:34:49] believe needs to be around the neighborhoods more and what makes Edina unique is we have a lot of commercial [1:34:55] draws and what this does kind of like if I could say Commissioner Borenstein [1:35:00] reasons in like you know a more satirical way it like does the exact opposite in in such a like to me kind of [1:35:06] laughable way but it's true you know it's keeping people from going to the site and from [1:35:13] leaving the site when we have the opportunity to do that and to reuse a building that's otherwise there um just [1:35:22] fundamentally it just opposes um where my discretion would be used for this [1:35:28] um that said knowing that you know this happens [1:35:33] often where we believe one thing and then the city council votes a different way which is common I'll at least [1:35:40] provide some maybe helpful guidance in case it does go just as reminders of [1:35:47] previous proposals what they did well what you might be able to change um I [1:35:52] know parking's a challenge but I mean if there's any way in which in which things [1:35:58] could support I I just even think of that the entrance even if you have a cut [1:36:04] through um if that shifted to the left of the parking um so that the parking's up against the [1:36:10] building you don't have people crossing you know like you might lose a spot um but could you get it somewhere else so I [1:36:17] think as the site's laid out that's just opposite what it should be you should [1:36:22] have the parking along the building so no one's crossing the drive path um I agree with Commissioner Alky [1:36:29] if there is a gate or an arm that could be there i know neighbors are happy but that was such a contending piece of the [1:36:37] previous equation of having this cut through traffic and having people park on the street i think if you either have [1:36:44] an arm or a a significantly elevated platform like for the drop off [1:36:50] or that exit that either really slows people down or prevents people from [1:36:56] using it that would be good one of the big things I've mentioned every time is [1:37:01] this is like the only stretch of Vernon on the north side that doesn't have a sidewalk i don't see one here it need like it [1:37:07] needs to have one regardless i and how you interact with that um with the [1:37:14] building so tight that that's just part of the other parts of like why I can't support this it's it's just so intense [1:37:20] having zero setback rate on Vernon that's a lot of mass which like we're [1:37:27] not seeing or think about like if we don't count dwelling units and you know we're not looking at the density it's [1:37:33] like there's 20 residents tight up against Vernon it's a lot of mass a lot of shape right on the street right along [1:37:40] the power lines which I'm guessing it might have to get buried to accommodate the building so there should be a [1:37:46] sidewalk connecting you know and maybe the city can then chip in to connect to that little spur to the east and then [1:37:52] like we've said every time hopefully this propagates like a sidewalk continuing east and west but I would [1:37:59] expect to see that regardless um with the next plan and uh as far as the [1:38:05] turnaround I I was I was kind of thinking of what Commissioner Padilla said too if if that's a drop off it's [1:38:13] almost like there's a sidewalk or kind of like patio maybe 15t from the building but if [1:38:23] that turn around or that that turn in to drop people off could just get tighter to the building and you do have like a [1:38:30] protected overhang for elements it's just if you're dropping people off like it's winter half the time so it'd be [1:38:36] nice to just have that a more protected um drop off [1:38:43] um that's my feedback um I appreciate you coming in does [1:38:49] anyone else have any other recommendations or feedback [1:38:54] thank you appreciate it thank you very much appreciate you coming here and being bold you're you know attempt [1:38:59] number five so I do agree like you know it fits more with the character of the [1:39:04] neighborhood uses so best of luck to you thank you [1:39:10] all right so that's it for our public hearings and [1:39:17] reports and recommendations so next we have chair and member comments just pass it to [1:39:23] other commissioners if you have any comments you'd like to share yeah um [1:39:28] I'll just note that uh Ryan David and I uh just had interviews um initial [1:39:36] interviews for the unified code and uh look at our [1:39:42] zoning sorry it's been a really long day um looking at our zoning code project so [1:39:48] we finished you know moments before tonight so no thoughts other than just that as an update [1:40:00] just a quick plug um uh supporting neighborhood associations [1:40:06] so last Sunday Morningside had their Earth Day celebration which was really [1:40:14] great um the mayor was out there i think our state rep was out there as well um [1:40:20] they were promoting everything green um from cars [1:40:25] to how do you get the right kind of audits for your home if you wanted to have an energy efficient home just a lot [1:40:33] of great ideas and I think Morningside does a great job of bringing the community together around a cause and [1:40:40] making it really fun the kids were playing it was really great and so other neighborhoods in the city um I would [1:40:47] strongly you know encourage them to do things like that because what it does I think it it it brings people together [1:40:54] and connects families connects neighborhoods and I think that's overall going to be really good spirit for the [1:41:00] city of Edina and so just a quick plug you know just support your neighborhood associations come up with some cool [1:41:06] ideas and have a really fun and enjoyable summer doing things together [1:41:16] i just uh want to second that and thank uh Commissioner Smith for the uh [1:41:22] leadership on the uh neighborhood association front um I'm involved in the [1:41:27] Brookview Heights Neighborhood Association myself and uh while I haven't given it nearly as much time as [1:41:33] Commissioner Smith has I I understand the the need for that so I appreciate your your uh commitment to that the only [1:41:41] other thing I wanted to mention um more on a a uh heads up front or a personal front is [1:41:49] the Rotary Club of Edina Morningside and the YMCA are hosting [1:41:54] uh Edina Rides you probably seen signs out and about uh in the town but May [1:42:00] 17th at 9:00 a.m it will be held at the Southdale YMCA and if you're interested in more [1:42:09] information or to register please go to edinaes.com that is all I have thank you [1:42:19] anyone else with anything else thank you guys for sharing awesome [1:42:24] all right Carrie you got anything for us just quick update on the last city council meeting they held two public [1:42:30] hearings no decision made but it was the Opus project across the freeway here and the Lincoln London small area plan [1:42:37] they'll make a decision next week but they did make a decision on the library site that was approved unanimously [1:42:45] that's it for me thank you [1:42:50] Carrie motion to adjurnn second all those in favor say I i so [1:42:57] move the meeting has been adjourned thank you everyone [1:43:33] oh yeah the voice