We have people uh that are calling in that want to uh discuss with us their concerns under community comment or uh if we have a public hearing, they can call in then as well. Um just a reminder that if you're calling in under committee comment, you can't call in with regard to anything on the agenda that day or scheduled for a future public hearing. [snorts] So having provided that information, I'm going to call the meeting to order and ask Scott Neil, our executive director, to call the role. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Commissioner Risser is absent. Commissioner Jackson >> here. >> Commissioner Pierce is absent. Commissioner Agnu >> here. >> Chair Huffland >> here. Uh, next is the pledge of allegiance. >> To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. with liberty and justice for all. It's a good thing to keep in mind. Um, we've got a meeting agenda of the H members, the commissioners and the public. Is there anyone on the uh H or at the staff level who wishes to modify the meeting agenda any form or fashion? Is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda is published? >> So moved. I second. >> Mr. Jackson moves Commissioner Agnu seconds the adoption of the meeting agenda is published. Any f all those in favor of adopting the meeting agenda is published say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. We have a meeting agenda. Uh and next is then community comment. Is there anyone in the audience? We're going to get this phone number up on the screen here for people that might be remote that can call in. That's their sequence for calling in. Uh in the meantime, let me ask if anyone in the audience wishes to address the council on a matter of concern to them that's not on the agenda or scheduled for a future public hearing. see some interested folks here in the audience this morning and I think there's some uh good things to talk about on the agenda today. So, I'm sure that's what you're here for. Uh seeing nobody coming forward and uh no one's speaking up from the audience. Do we have anybody remote that wishes to address the >> I don't have anyone online yet, but because there is a brief delay in the broadcast, I'd recommend we wait about a minute before moving on. My clock shows that it's 7:36. So, I'll come back to you at 7:37 or when I have a caller, whichever's first. >> Thank you. It is now 7:37 and I still don't have a caller. So I think it's safe for you to move forward with the agenda. >> Well, there are no there are no previous uh comments to respond to. >> All right. Thank you for that. Uh the consent agenda is item six on the uh main agenda and there are six items on the consent agenda. Is there any commissioner who wishes to remove remove an item from the consent agenda? Hearing nothing. Is there a motion to adopt the items on the consent agenda in a single motion? >> So moved. >> Commissioner Jackson moves Commissioner Agnu uh seconds the adoption of the items on the consent agenda in a single motion. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adopting the items on the consent agenda in a single motion say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. Madam, the items on the consent agenda are approved. Uh then we are going to move to reports and recommendations. We've got four matters to handle there. And um our economic development manager, Bill Nundorf, is going to handle these the bulk of these matters for us. Uh and before we get started, Commissioner Jackson has a general question for you. Mr. Afternoon. [snorts] >> Yes. Good morning. >> Good morning. >> Um, so you've got this in your presentation, but I want to talk a little bit about this spark program in general. Um, it's my understanding it was a program designed to mitigate the effects of the shutdown that was related to the pandemic. tell us a little bit about what the state of retail in Edina and why why now in 2025 we're looking at something that was really designed for 2021 and um the overall health of small businesses in Edina. >> Sure, I can comment in general on that. Uh so you're correct. This program did uh uh get its conception in late 2021 uh and then became a a real program in 2022. It was intended to create a um a strategic route for cities throughout the state of Minnesota to use some funds that they had uh retained in kind of a rainy day account in a in a tax increment financing account jobs and uh spark uh new uh investment in in the retail and commercial sector. Um so it was a pretty forward-looking program at the time, a program that cities throughout the state have taken advantage of. We call, you know, Diana, we calls ours a spark program. That's just just what we call ours. The official state name is much um more uh boring than that. Um but even though the pandemic is many years behind us, still there um I think the restaurant sector is a perfect example. Look at how many restaurants that were tried and true, the bread and butter of the community. Look how pricing has changed. Look how service models have changed. consumer expectations, labor availability, um that sector in particular has been hit extremely hard. Um if you if you recall a lot of the different strategies that restaurant tours have have applied over the last couple years, service fees, percentage fees, living wages, a lot of different strategies, credit card fees, all the different things. The restaurant tours in particular have really struggled to find an avenue where they can keep their customers coming back but be profitable and you've seen many businesses close. Um uh some in Adina, some throughout the metro. So it's not just an Adina problem. It's not a Twin Cities problem. It's really an overall economic issue. So this program even in 2025 and 2026 still has merit. Um, we find that the cost of capital for any business, whether a restaurant, uh, a service type business, a retail business, the cost of capital is much higher than it has been for years. And while the Fed just dropped the rate another quarter point um, this week, which is a step in the good direction, that cost of capital is still extraordinarily high. Um, rental rates at commercial properties have not there's no fire sale on rental rates. those re those landlords still have to pay their mortgages. So, it puts the small business owner in particular in a in a tight spot. They want to move forward, make their investment, deliver their service, pursue their dream, and they're getting pummeled on all different sides. So, uh even in 2025 and 2026 when no one's masking and we're not freaking out about COVID shots, um that impact the economy is still there. So that's why for the last several months, staff has been advocating to extend this park program and uh use it as leverage to help uh get businesses that are so close to saying yes to get them over the line to actually move forward. And we've got three examples of that here this morning. >> So thank you. That's very helpful. Um, a follow-up question that I have is I believe two requirements in this are that it creates jobs and that it is a physical re uh improvement of a space. Um we hear a lot about when we look at redevelopment, one of the um common voices we hear is well there's no place not going to be any place for small business that can afford to be here any Dina and um I know you hear a lot more of that um from the business side than we do and um can you talk a little bit about the um inventory of commercial space in Edina and how these buildings I know one of them is a redevelopment project But talk a little bit about how this helps whether it helps preserve the space for smaller businesses. >> Sure. Um you're correct in that the the program um uh provides a reimbursement for physical improvements to the building and that's something that staff just wants to be very cautious of in case something goes wrong. Uh we specifically wrote our program here to only fund those physical things that stay with the property. Um, we don't fund equipment, we don't fund labor, we don't fund creative, we don't fund dishes and cups and cutlery um because those can all disappear. But we we are happy to fund um maybe willing to fund um physical improvements. Um uh and two of the um businesses here this morning are smaller businesses. Um, so in the shopping centers where they're located, there's already a mix of some national tenants, some franchise tenants, and some small businesses. And you know, that creates a nice a nice uh uh economic outlook because you're not solely reliant on a big national. You're not solely relying only on small on local small businesses. You want to be able to to mix those around. It just provides um greater assurance that you'll have a combination of successes. Um, and with our with our first project that we'll hear in a in a minute, that's that's a larger project, but it's still a small local business. Um, uh, uh, maybe small is I don't know how you want to define small. Um, that in a dinina, there's a much greater demand for that local twist on restaurants. You know, the franchise models, the national models, those are good. Um, and our shopping centers, our shopping malls have many of those, but for other smaller community districts, those locallyowned businesses really seem to to have a sweet spot with the consumer, and that's what we're looking to fund here this morning. >> Terrific. That's extremely helpful. Thank you. So, as a segue to uh Commissioner Jackson's questions, we we've been careful, I think, about how we've used these funds, recognizing that there would be um an aftermath to the COVID and the effects of the pandemic. Um and so, how much money do we have left? And and do we have to use it by a certain point in time? And if we don't use it all, then what happens? >> Sure. So, um, initially we directed nearly nine and a half million dollars to this program and we've supported a lot of businesses and investments over the last couple years. Um, as of today, there's about a million dollars left in the fund. Um, and so that is um those are dollars we would love to deploy to help businesses, small businesses in particular, um, uh, get started. Um the do the expenditure does have a time limit and that's the end of December of 2026. So that's uh if you look at our contracts here, we have our deadline as November 30th just to make sure that we don't want to get anywhere close to that final deadline. Um uh uh so in December of 2026, we'll see where we are as far as uh any remaining dollars left. And if there are funds that are still available, two things could happen. First, they would be returned to their original source. Um each of these dollars came from three various tax increment financing districts. So typically they would be returned to their original fund. Um, some of those funds have closed like the Southdale 2 district that's been inactive for five years. That one's been back on the tax roles doing amazing things for the community. So those dollars that are that would be returned to Southdale would most likely then be turned over to the county and then the county would keep about a third, give the city about a third, give the schools about a third, but then the state would take the schools for their funds. Um, so there's a whole uh protocol of what happens to excess tiff funds, but that would be the the general path. Um, so over the over this next year, uh, we hope to bring a few more projects in front of you. Uh, these projects are not easy. Even though they're small, they're they're they're difficult. I mean, if they were easy, they wouldn't be here, right? You've seen new businesses open. That's great. Um, but we are working with the ones that are tougher to get across the line. And in 2026, we hope to bring a few more in front of you for your consideration. Um, uh, I've been working with several businesses over the last couple years. Um, uh, a few of them didn't work out. Um, so the three this morning are the survivors, the ones that are ready to go pending our support. >> Yeah, good. You've got some great stories over the past few years, I think. you know, starting with the theater always sticks in all of our minds, I think, is is something that we thought was a bedrock part of 50th in France and our entire community, pro probably our region really. And uh what we did there to stabilize that and I think from what I understand, it's been really successful and and the mans that own the theater are really pleased. Uh and then just more recently, I can't help but think about uh uh the uh old crepe the crepery up at 44th in France where uh we had this opportunity with this young woman from Britany to uh open this crepery that she had one other location I think in Minneapolis, but she needed to do a new front window and a front door and and a back door and it was about a 20ome thousand uh loan that we gave her or a grant. I can't remember. I think probably it was a grant. >> That one was a grant. Yeah, it was a straightup grant and and you know, every time you go in there, she's so grateful that uh it it really really helped her out and she's I think been really successful. So these uh these stories of us helping out and and you doing all the screening and all of the hard work of putting these deals together is is you know, you be proud of yourself for that. So all right, let's move on to the first uh first uh one that we want to talk about this morning. >> Sure. This first one this morning is a forgivable loan agreement uh for the Americana restaurant that's slated to be be constructed at 5036 France Avenue. As a city council, you've heard a lot about this one, right? We had variance requests. There are some little glitches in our parking counts. Um with that behind us, the develop the owner operators is prepared to move forward. I've been working with uh the owner's rep uh gosh for probably nine months. Um as they were considering what to do with this site, they knew that the old model was not working and could not work any further and they were going back and forth about what level of investment to put in the property. Do they just rebrand and put a new coat of paint? Do they just redo the seats and the menu? Um they didn't think that was the avenue for long-term success. So the strategy that they're employing is to do that small addition on the second floor um to really create a destination to be proud of here in Adina. Um while that is a bigger uh scope of project, it's also much more expensive scope. And so early in their process as they were putting their performance together to see if this made sense, um it was a it was clear that they had some equity, they had some investors, they had access to debt, but they knew there they knew there was still going to be a gap. And so that's what we're looking at today is a city stepping in and providing a forgivable loan um to bridge that gap. So the owners and the operators uh are here this morning. Uh this is a big project. uh to just over $3 million in in expenditures. Uh that investment will create jobs, strengthen our tax base, and I think even more important, add vibrancy to 50th in France. Um [snorts] uh small local neighborhood districts have been struggling and we've done some good things. You've seen seen some amazing things at 50th in France. We really want to keep that as the premier destination in this region. Um and we think this type of restaurant will do that. So, we we're recommending that we apply this as a forgivable loan. Um uh and I've been working with our special attorneys at um Dorsy and Whitney to provide the loan documents. We've been using Dorsy on on these type of types of projects since the beginning. They have a unique um expertise in in this special law about these unobligated TIFF funds or the Spark program. So they've created each of our contracts for these types of projects. >> Let's see. We already talked in general about this the spark program. [clears throat] >> Um >> so over a year ago we created the spark program and we had three levels in of investment. Small grants. We called it the streamline grant program for smaller projects. The crepe restaurant was a good example of that. Uh and then uh medium and large SC scale projects like the Adina Theater um and like this project where it's more than just um you know a like $20,000. This is a $200,000. And so we're looking to apply this forgivable loan program. Um we're following the same basic procedures that are set up that we've applied to the other recipients of these types of funds. um where we we use it only when needed to induce that private investment just because a business asks. If they already have their own funding, that's a pretty short conversation in my office with them. Um but if they don't have all the funding and they need a little bit from the city, that's where we actually get serious [cough] about this program about this program. For projects like this, we define the eligible expenses and we've been focusing on uh elements that provide ADA access or sustainability. Um those are our two main triggers which are layered in city policy to be more accessible to all and to be um sustainable as far as building and energy use. So we define those eligible expenses in advance. um those are written into the contract and of course we require a match from the owner like we would never fund 100% or 90% or 80%. In this case we're proposing to fund less than 10% of the project. We always structure these as reimburseable loans. So they do the work, they sign the contracts, they hire the crew, they order the equipment, they get the loan, the the private bank loan. when they finish all that, they'll show us receipts and then we reimburse them up to that maximum amount for their eligible eligible expenses. So, we think that's just a safer way to to watch um dollars that originated as tax dollars. Um while the main purpose of this program is to create jobs and to um to to invest in the community, we decided not to put any long-term job reporting in these. um for small businesses that just really gets to be more of a burden. Our intention with this program was to step in when necessary, get the business open, get the customers in the door, and step away and let business be business. So there we try not to have a lot of um loose ends on these types of deals. But for these larger investments, we do uh write in criteria that the business has to remain open. Um, so we don't want to provide funding on Monday, they take it and run to the bank and then they close their doors on Friday. Um, they need to be open in this case for a year. Um, if they close prematurely, there are penalties written into the loan agreement and they have to pay us back with interest. Um, we hope we never have to use those, but we always make sure that we have those um, uh, kind of belt and suspenders built in in case something does go wrong. So, in the report, we have the typical process for these types of loans. Um, I just kind of walk through it, so I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this slide. Um, but let's get let's focus back on the project. Uh, this is that Americana restaurant. You've seen it many times. The map on the right shows the location on France Avenue between 50th and 51st. The rendering on the left is the expansion. Everything from the facade and the whole second floor would all be new. We included a the floor plan that they're working on to to uh have this constructed. And then in in the staff report and also in the packet this morning, we have the basic terms of the forgivable loan. I've covered most of those, but the one thing I haven't is is timing. So, the developer and the um or the operator has been waiting patiently. If you recall that the old restaurant closed in October and they were ready ready to go pending our approval. So they've been waiting patiently. It's now December. Um so with this loan agreement in place, uh they think they can get started in early Jan in January of next year. Uh it'll take about 8 to 10 months to get it built and then they'll open in the fall. So it falls into our time time limitations. Um but they are ready to go. They've been ready to go for a few months. So, um, so that that's nice to see. And, um, I mentioned earlier the total forgivable loan amount that we're looking at and proposing this morning is $200,000 out of a $3 million project. Uh, the contract does have conditions of forgiveness written in. It has specific provisions about how we disperse the funds to them. uh what happens uh when we forgive the loan and write it off uh when if they meet all the conditions versus what happens if they don't meet meet the conditions then we apply the penalties for this project we also added some uh some things that I call other conditions that's where they're written into the contract and in a way this is responsive to some concerns that Commissioner Pierce had had raised about how we can leverage some of these dollars to to reduce some costs in the city budget. So, this project in particular at 50th in France, um there's some of those public areas that need some help, right? Some of the sidewalks are old, need to be replaced. Uh there's an alleyway that's old and needs to be replaced. Um so with this spark program, the way the legislation is written, um we can use some spark dollars um by the city ourselves to redo the sidewalks, to put in new street lights that are modern and upto-date um to do some other improvements. And so we've written that into this proposal as well where the city could use up to $100,000 of spark in addition to the $200,000 to the to the business to make some of these public improvements. So, that's a way of of using some existing um dollars that are in an in an account to make these public improvements without raising the tax levy. And we heard your message loud and clear that we want to do that to whatever extent we can. And we think this is well based on the advice from our legal council. We think this is the best way to do that. So, with that being said, I know I've kind of jumped around a little bit this morning. Um but uh we do recommend that the board approve this for agreement um uh and authorize staff to imp implement the terms of that agreement over the next year or so. Uh Daniel Delpra, the owner operator is in the audience here with us if you have any questions of him. Um and of course I'm also happy to answer any questions. >> Yeah, I don't think you jumped around too much. He answered some good questions for us and everything was pretty linear in my opinion. But uh let me turn to my colleagues here and see if anybody has any questions for you based on the presentation. Commissioner Jackson. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um so one of the questions that comes up whenever there's financing attached to redevelopment is um the timing, right? And um tell me a little bit when they came to the city and maybe maybe you don't know the answer to this, but when they came to the city to uh get this re reszoned and everything, was there an expectation of public funds or how did how did the um conversation begin about getting public funds for this project? >> Sure. Um I don't have specific dates, but um I do recall that uh one of the architects contacted staff first. I want to say February, March, April of last year, very early. And they had a couple questions, zoning, parking, height, those types of rudimentary regulatory matters. Um, but then I also spoke with the business manager about if it if a second story was possible through zoning, even with the variance, if it if it was at least, you know, if the city was open to it, they knew the expense would be high. and um and they asked they inquired about the program. Right. Since we've had the program, I've been getting the word out, letting people know that it exists. Um so they were aware of that. And very early in the conversation, I would say April or May, uh we started brainstorming ways that we could apply the Spark program to help get their project off the ground. uh at some point in the summer months um as we we uh as we found a way to create a forgivable loan, we actually modeled this after the after the Adina Theater contract. Um uh I was willing to bring that forward to this group uh and advocate for it. Um with that path identified, they the owner felt it was worth the risk to submit plans, go for zoning, try to get the regulatory things done. So very early in the process if if we wouldn't would not have found a path I think they would have chosen a much different strategy. Um so as when I speak with with businesses on the phone of course I can identify strategies and ideas and brainstorm and and and those types of things. It's always conditioned on your vote. So there's never a a promise of of funding in advance. But, you know, I I mentioned earlier there's some projects we've looked at where you sit down and you work with them and you find out it's just it's not a match. Um, but other ones you work with and you find out that it could be possible. So, this fell in the latter category. Um, but those conversations did start um [clears throat] early summer, late spring of last year. >> Terrific. Thank you so much. Commissioner Reign, >> can you go back to the floor plan and just walk me through um even if some of them are outside um what are all the improvements that the spark funds would be going to and where are those on this diagram? >> Sure. Uh let's see. I don't know if I can Yeah, I think I'll just walk through it. I don't think the cursor is going to work. So on the right hand of the image, >> um, so France Avenue is on the right side of the of the page. You see some outdoor seating in the front just for context. Oh, nice. So France Avenue is along this border. This is the second story that would be constructed. This is the first story that exists. Um these funds would be primarily used for two things. There's a new elevator lift to get access up to the second floor. That could um that's a couple hundred,000 just for that to get that built and framed and configured. Then you have to buy the actual piece of equipment and get it installed. So it would fund that elevator lift. And then the other piece on the second floor, this is the glass gazebo. um the those walls to be um energy efficient would also be the second part of the grant. So, uh they have uh we've identified over $400,000 of potentially eligible expenses um because I'm I always ask for receipts and lean waiverss and things like that. So, um, whatever comes in first for them, um, I would use that as as the item we're actually paying [clears throat] for, again, up to a cap of $200,000. So, those are the two primary things, that glass enclosure and then the elevator here on the second floor, which then goes down here to the first floor. >> You Okay, I don't have any questions. I think you did a good job in your presentation. Uh, what you're suggesting by way of motion is that we approve the loan agreement with 5036 Americana LLC and 5036 France Property LLC and authorize staff to implement the terms of the agreement. >> Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. >> Commissioner Jackson moves. >> Commissioner Yeah. Commissioner Agnu seconds the adoption of the motion as stated, which would be to approve the loan agreement with 5036 Americana LLC and 5036 France Property LLC and authorizes staff to implement the terms of the agreement. Any further discussion? >> Yes. >> Okay. Sorry, one more question. Um, and so I know that anytime we're looking at these projects, you do the analysis, right, of you even mentioned this, they don't have other funding sources that can be used to cover this. Um, and so it's based off of your analysis and kind of all of the work that went into this. This project would not be moving forward if we don't help with these spark funds. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> Okay. >> Any other discussion? Okay. All those in favor of adoption of the motion say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. Motion's approved. The loan agreement is approved with those two entities. And uh, thank you, Mr. Delpra for being here this morning so we could answer we could get questions answered if we needed them from you. Sounds like you're ready to go with the project right after the first of the year now that the loans approved. So that's good news. That's good news too. >> Yeah, we are ready to go right away. So >> Okay, good. And can you come up for just a moment? I want to ask you a question about here you are busy over on the Minneapolis side with Dexters and now you've got Theres opened which I think you said was named for your mother. Yes. >> And how's how's that going so far in the old living home space? >> Better than I expected. Uh it's uh it's going great. Uh it's actually uh we have some issues with the um uh ventilation. Uh but uh we working on it right now. So that's the thing with a restaurant is always added expenses as you open. Um and um but it's going great. Um, I'm very happy with the food, with with the reception and, uh, uh, it's great. Uh, give me like a sense of how Americana, which is a bigger project, uh, is going to be doing. So, >> yeah. Good. Well, you did a nice job hiring people. I stopped in there one night just to tell them congratulations and we're pleased to have them here and >> Yeah. >> And the people the people at the front were very cordial and everybody else was uh, very cordial as well. and people were enjoying themselves and it reminded me a bit of Martina, your other restaurant. >> Yeah, >> with the greenery and everything in there. >> Yeah, it's kind of like Martina was named after I was going to that was going to be my name if I was a girl. Uh so that was the uh this has a familiar s both has a familiar uh sense uh of behind the name and the concept. So >> yeah, good. Thanks. Anybody else have a question or comment? All right. Well, thanks for being here this morning. >> Thank you so much. >> We look forward to working with you on this project and and and this will be a wonderful addition to 50th in France. >> Yeah, I agree. I'm very excited about it. >> Yeah. >> Good. We are, too. >> Thank you so much. >> Yeah. Enjoy your holidays. >> All right. The next one involves uh was something called Coders Clubhouse LLC at 7101 France Avenue. I think we're all familiar with that location as well. >> Yes. Yes. This is a a similar Spark program but on a smaller scale. So this uh proposal, let's see, let me go skip past the background. This is one of our streamline grant programs. So I've been working with Katie and Jeremiah Telantes for several months on this just um as they've been putting their their business plans together. Um uh they had it's the same story, right? They looked at their own personal finances. Look, they looked at their access to capital. They negotiated for space. They they looked into what the landlord was willing to contribute to the project. And all those things were coming together and they still had a gap. Um so we we applied uh or I'm proposing we apply our streamlined grant program to this project. Uh this program is smaller in scale and simpler in its imple implementation. Thus the streamlined name that we give it. Uh we cap these grants at $24,000 per business. Um but the general parameters are still the same. Uh they have to make permanent improvements to the building. Um that will stay with the building even if something goes wrong and they have to shut their doors. So we're looking to fund uh ADA toilet rooms in this case and then some um mainline improvements to their HVAC ventilation system. Um, this project also requires the matching investment from the owner. Um, uh, for these funds, we would pay no more than 50% of the total project costs. In this case, it's much less than that. Um, and work has to begin in the next six months and be completed by November of 2026. Again, we don't want to get too close to that uh, December 31st deadline. uh with this with this project like the others uh we the business owners upon completion uh to make sure that our dollars are are put to good use so that again they will be responsible for hiring the contractor paying the architect doing all the permitting on getting the work completed uh upon completion and upon opening of the project they'll share some of their invoices with me I'll confirm that people got paid and the money went to where it was supposed to go and then we'll cut them a check to reimburse um for up to $24,000. So the the program is the same, the process is the same. The more exciting part is let's talk about the project. Um Coders Clubhouse. So it's proposed to be located at the Route of France at the corner of Hazelton Road and France Avenue. This is the longtime shopping center here in Adina. Uh there's a uh a bagel place. Crumble Cookie is always a hit. Um, you've got the Exfinity store in the building. Um, [cough and clears throat] Ethan Allen, some furniture stores. So, a whole mix of local, national, and franchise tenants in that space. It's well located on on a strong quarter uh with reasonably good access to the whole to this whole uh uh market area. There's an existing business uh the Coler Store is reconfiguring. Uh they previously had three storefronts that they grouped together. Coler is reducing their footprint to only have two storefronts which opens up a space uh in this building. Um the owners feel that this is a great location for their business. Um the challenge is now they've got a a a raw space which is what they need but there's no ventilation and their their programming is to teach uh kids computer coding. So it's a really 21st century type of business. Um there's a similar business. It's a national called um oh my gosh uh cyber ninja cyber ninjas down the street. So it's that similar type of model. Of course theirs will be better than than that one which is in a different community. Um but it's intended to teach uh school age children um the art and the skill of computer coding for the next generation. The reason we're here this morning is since they since they're dealing with uh clients of of of school age, um there's a code, I don't know if it's state or if it's a national code that says the single toilet room in the building is not sufficient. They have to add a second simple until you look at the price tag. Um and that can really blow the budget on a project of this scale. And so that's that's why we're here this morning to help defay the cost for that second bathroom in the building. Um, of course, the the existing bathroom and the new have to be fully ADA compliant. Um, I feel those are really good investments for this program because they will stay in that tenant space basically forever. So, even when they ex when they outgrow this place and need to move somewhere else um bigger, uh those improvements will be still be around for the next tenants. And to me, that's the one of the core uh principles behind Spark is to help improve those physical places. Um so the eligible grant work would be that new uh accessible toilet room as well as uh a new HVAC trunk line um to ser there's there's no ventilation. So they need that and again that stays with the building. Their total investment is around $267,000. uh it'll actually be more than that once once they factor in all the equipment and those types of things. Um and we're recommending to reimburse them uh up to $24,000. So a little bit less than 10% of their total investment. Um it's a fairly short uh summary because it's a fairly straightforward program. So um I recommend that the board does approve this grant agreement uh and authorize staff to implement it over the next years. Um, let me also just say that the grant agreement in your packet, it's structured as a grant, not a forgivable loan. They don't have to stay open. There's no strings. They just need to get the project done, open their doors, and um, and do what they're going to do. >> Yeah, good uh, good presentation. Thank you. Questions from commissioners. Mr. Jackson, >> this is actually more of a comment, but we often get um requests from the public to talk about a plan for business development in our city. And I go back to our visionina where we looked at what the strongest values are in our city. And um one of them is the environment, you know, green space and and all the things attached to that, but the other is lifelong learning in our community. And so I'm glad you guys came forward with this project. Um this fits very nicely. Um one suggestion I have is that the school district has a program where they want to get interns out into the community. So um if you're not familiar with that, I encourage you to uh connect with them um because I we love the interconnectedness of things. But as we look at potential industries in our city, I've always thought that training would be a really good fit because we have this education-minded community. So, this is very much within that vision. Um, you know, and then if there are opportunities as you hear about things to go along that theme, that's something that I would really strongly support because I think it it fits very nicely with the values of our community. >> So, thank you. >> Great comment. Thank you. Commissioner Agna, >> can I can I ask how we how the um business owners decided on this location in particular for this project? >> Um sure. Uh Katie Jeremiah, do you want to share your story? Come up to the microphone. And >> Hi. Um so we decided on this location because it is a central location. It's very familiar to families. And then it's also a great spot for um parents to drop off their student or their child at the center, do the fun class, have fun in class, and do run errands because it's so centrally located that they can easily run errands while their child is at class. So yeah, thank you. >> Why don't you just stick around for a second here? [laughter] This is your chance to talk a little bit about your your business. I mean even before we vote on this I think it would be good for people to understand and us to understand a little bit more about coder clubhouse. So >> Okay. Yeah. Um do you want to come up to >> um >> because I think it's it's a it's a great concept. >> Thank you. Yeah. So coders clubhouse is a it's going to be a coding and makerpace center uh for kids about 10 to 18. Um, we will offer instructorg guided coding classes as well as a maker space for them to do some fun engineering projects as well as a variety of um highquality STEM camps throughout the year. So, >> yeah, I think comment uh about the intern comment you made earlier. We have a program called GraceHopper we're looking forward to and that's uh geared specifically toward high schoolers and intern opportunities. It's where we would partner with local businesses and kind of in in a guided mentorship sort of way where they can take the skills that they've learned at Quarters Clubhouse and then implement those uh you know with a mentorship from someone like myself to actually work with real life businesses and solving their problems. So, it's kind of a way to um sort of pad their resumes early on, get some real life exposure, uh help them with college applications and so forth. So, I think it's a really good opportunity. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I um I'm curious the there's also code ninjas, right? Correct. >> Um can you speak to if it's just very similar or if there's differences between the two and I'd love to learn more. >> Sure. Yeah. Um, so Code Ninjas, um, is a franchise, uh, throughout the US and they focus primarily on teaching kids how to build video games. Um, where our program, we have a lot of more of a variety of coding languages that they'll learn, more of a hands-on um, projects that they'll be doing. It's not so much of the building um, video games. >> I think the age range as well. True. Yeah. >> Um their their age range starts around five and goes up to maybe about 10 or 12 or so. >> Yeah. >> Somewhere around there. And so we're we're focused more on the important pragmatic approach toward toward that. Not just focusing on games, but also introduction of different concepts, different languages. uh AI happens to be one of those things that we're really embracing um as as kind of a preparing kids for using it as their workflow as a partner rather than sort of thinking it's going to be replace coding and jobs and so forth. So that's one of our major focuses as well in addition to our maker space and the grace hopper which again focuses on more on the high schooler college sort of college preparation um avenue. We chose this age range too just because we felt as though there weren't um opportunities outside of school for high quality STEM experiences. And this age group is just at such a great age to really be delving in and absorbing the coding and hands-on projects, but there just wasn't that many opportunities for them here. So >> awesome. Um so I know and it's ironic because there's no relation whatsoever to our Sparks program. Um, but I think it's called the Sparks program um, in the Twin Cities um, through the Minnesota Technical College um, where they also place and it's specific for um, young girls, but they place high school girls into internships. And I actually think you're at Microsoft, is that correct? >> I I was formerly at Microsoft. Yeah, I just switched. Yeah. >> Okay. I think that said the grant application. Um, but I know Microsoft has been a partner of that as well. Um, so I think that that's one kind of a great area because I know the mayor and I know that they've brought a lot of students in. Um, and it sounds like you're um more open gender- wise, but it's just I think a really cool program and it's great to see it um come here to the Twin Cities and Edina in particular. >> Um, so so thank you for >> family. So wanted to stay with Edina. So very happy to be here. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> That's a great idea. So >> thank you. I like your I like your name and I like your logo. >> Oh, thanks. >> Clever work there. >> Yeah, thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, is there a motion to approve the grant agreement with Coders Clubhouse LLC and authorized staff to implement the terms of an agreement to that effect? >> So moved. >> I second. >> Commissioner Jackson moves. Commissioner Agnes seconds the uh approval of that grant agreement with Coders Clubhouse LLC and authorized staff to implement the terms of that agreement. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. The uh grant agreement is unanimously approved. So before we go. Next state next step. Very good. When do you expect to be open? >> April. >> Oh, good. Moving fast. >> Yeah. Build starts in January. >> All right. Great. Good to hear. Who's the Who's the uh owner of that strip mall? >> I >> Hey, come up to the microphone. If you if if you don't know, that's fine. I just Bill probably knows. >> Yeah, I can't I can't recall. Do you know? >> Um I'm on the spot now. Um >> uh it changed uh Rud France changed hands in the last year and a half. Um >> Phillips Edison. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Uh thank you. They purchased it from the previous owner. Phillips Edison also owns the Centennial Lakes Retail where Whole Foods is, Cucumbers, Core Power, Hope Breakfast Bar. They own that strip. I believe they're based in Cincinnati. Don't might be I might be wrong on that, but um Adina has been a great investment location for them and uh they've been acquiring strong retail centers, so it's nice to have those under common ownership right on the same street. >> Good. Yeah, thanks for that. Thanks for being here this morning. It was very helpful to have you here. All right, we got one more matter in this category of spark and uh that is potential grant agreement for JJ's Poke Minnesota, Inc. >> and >> yes, another another streamlined grant program. Uh so the the program, the funding, the form of the contract is all the same as we just looked at for Coders Clubhouse. Uh similar type of uh situation here. Uh the owner uh has been open for several years at this location. Has a strong uh walk-in business um and a strong takeout business because they have four seats. They would love to have a strong dinin business and they would love to complement their um to complement their existing pokey menu with uh soups and noodles. Great in the winter time in Minnesota, right? Um uh so they've been working on this for several months. Um they've uh they hired a contractor months ago. They thought they had it figured out and then they hit a brick wall. And uh as their costs started to escalate to build out the space and expand, um they had signed the lease. They had actually demoed the place next door. Um they were getting ready to expand and then um some of the fees that get assessed for sewer charges, water charges, all these fees were not expected. And so suddenly they came to a grinding halt and they've been paused for months um trying to figure out a way to to address those unexpected expenses. So I've been working with the uh with the owner, with the contractor, with the property owner and landlord to try to find a creative way to get them started up again. and we felt that uh the streamlined grant program was the most direct way to address the gap in their financing and let them finish the project. And so uh just like the other projects, we've identified some eligible expenses um uh which in this case again focus on hand handicap accessibility and energy efficiency. So to expand the project they've got to bring in new gas lines to the building that don't exist today. They have to add more toilets. Those all have to be handicap accessible. They have to build out a whole kitchen. Um uh from a city investment, even worst case, if they expand and go somewhere else or if they close, that new kitchen, the new utilities, the new toilet rooms will be there for the next tenants um forever basically. So I feel they're good investments uh to enhance the project to to enhance the site actually. Um, so we've identified those. Here's a image of the of the project. They're located 6815 York Avenue, right across from Cub Foods, right across from the Southdale liquor store. In the same strip mall, there's a um Chipotle, there's a Chuck and Dons, there's a whole slew of franchises and national tenants in there. Uh there's some beauty salons as well. So, uh, in the image here, you see the vacant storefront in the foreground, uh, with the gauze on the windows because it's all ugly because it's been demoed, ready to move forward. And then you've got the existing restaurant in the background. So, they would simply expand into the into the space next next door. They'd be more than doubling their size. And that's where I get excited to see a small a small business owner um that's been successful and wants to take it to the next level. And there's an opportunity. So, if the city can step in with a simple grant to let that dream be realized, I think that's a great great type of outcome. So, the owner, Henry Woo Woo, is here with us this morning. His contractor is here as well. Um, uh, the construction would begin uh imminently. Um, they've been on pause all summer pretty much as we've been trying to figure out the way to get this forward. So, probably as soon as this program would get approved, they'll get back on the horn with their contractor and figure out when they can recommence the project. It should be a fairly simple build out, although in the restaurant world, nothing simple, right? There's always unexpected things. Um, but they can easily finish before our deadline of next year um and and reopen. Uh the their total investment in this project is about $285,000. I'm recommending a grant up to 24, so less than 10% of their investment, um, to help get this project restarted. And so with that, uh, in your packet, you'll find the the grant agreement. It's the same template. Uh, uh, our attorneys at Dorsey and Whitney prepare that template, and then I just use it for these streamlined programs. Um, but it it has some of the same protections for the city as well as, uh, clarity for the for the owner so they know that the funds are going to be good when they're finished. So with that, I certainly recommend that the HA board approve this grant agreement and authorize staff to to implement it. >> All right, turn it back to you. >> Thanks, Mr. Newondorf. Any questions for manager Newondorf from Commissioners? >> I too would just love to have the business owners come up and and maybe speak a little bit to >> that JJ's Poke. >> That was my next idea beyond. [laughter] >> So thanks for that, >> Mr. Woo. Yeah. you you and your partner want to come up and [cough] [clears throat] talk about your business and the potential expansion. >> Love to hear about it. >> Good morning, chair and council. And thank you, Bill. My name is Calvin. I'm the general contractor. I'll probably do most of the speaking for uh Mr. Henry, there's a little language barrier, but uh I think if you guys, you know, ask him a few questions, he'll try to answer and I'll step in if needed. >> Yeah. >> Uh JJ's, this is Henry. JJ's has been around uh in Dina for a while for for quite some time and uh they've been pretty successful like Bill said and they they just want to share um they share more of their experience to more customers. As customers come in the door, there's there's not much room to sit down. Um the opportunity for the space next door opened up. Um they saw the opportunity. They called me up and asked me to uh do the expansion there. Uh, I looked at the space, we we we went over plans, we got everything drawn up, everything submitted to the city, got approved, um, and then we got hit with their sack fees, which were substantially substantially surprisingly high. Um, that's when we stepped in and we asked the landlord for some help. landlord looked around and um he he he suggested that uh uh we re-evaluate what what the project was going to entail. Um we couldn't cut any um pricing out of our project. Um so we kind of we kind of hit a a roadblock. Um reached out to the city um and met Bill and Bill introduced uh the grant program. So, uh, that's why we're here today to help, um, alleviate some of the some of the unexpected costs that we encountered. Yeah. >> And with the grant, uh, you would be able to proceed right away under >> Oh, yes. Yep. Yep. Or like I said, we we are already under construction. Yeah. We just kind of hit a standstill to try to figure out the finances. >> Yeah. And share a little bit about JJ's pokey for us, your business. But do you want to talk about your business a little bit? >> Um the what do you sell? >> What do I sell? >> Yeah, we sell the Poké Ball right now. So we've been in Atlanta 2018. So we are sell the Poké Ball. Um Poké Ball actually was a cold dish. So we are trying to like explain for the next door for the ramen noodle and uh fur noodle also for the winter time. So we are sure was a dining dining room with a share. So even the customer they want a poke ball come here they want a ramen noodle hot stuff in the next store. So make a summer winter for the bow side. >> Good. >> Yep. >> Good. You chose a tough time to start your business in 2018. So, >> yeah, >> hang in there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Good. Other questions from commissioners? >> No, thank you. Thank you for being here and and we'll talk about it more, but >> yeah, >> thank you. So, I just want to say this is what exactly what we're looking for with this program because it's physical and so we'll we'll get to have that investment for a long time but new jobs, expansion, a new offering for our city. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. We hope uh we hope to bring the business uh and completed as soon as possible here. Yeah. >> Very good. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. The motion for this matter is similar to the other motions and that is to approve the grant agreement with JJ's Pokei Minnesota Inc. and authorize staff to implement the terms of that agreement. Is there a motion to that effect? >> So moved. Second. >> Mr. Agnum moves Commissioner Jackson seconds the approval of the grant agreement with JJ's Pokey Minnesota Inc. and authorizes staff to implement the terms of the agreement. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say I. I. I. opposed. Carried. The motion's approved. The grant agreement is approved. So, here we go. Thank you. >> Thanks for being here this morning. And it was good to hear about your business. I'm glad the Commissioner Agnu asked you to come up and talk about it. So, uh that's it for the uh for the grants and the loans this morning. Uh we've now got another matter to take care of that's budget related. And uh our executive director Scott Neil is going to talk to us about potential adoption of resolution 2025-09 which would approve the proposed HR budget and uh proposed tax levy payable in 2026 related to the HR. Uh we'll go now to Director Neil. >> Thank you uh Mr. Chair. Uh this is the action to as you noted to approve the 2026 uh tax levy and budget for the Adina H. Uh this budget is uh currently set at $200, excuse me, $259,300. The proposal is to increase that to two $267,100. That's a $7,800 increase, 3% increase from 2025. It would mark the fifth consecutive year where we have a 3% increase. Uh it's a nominal increase that we use. We use these funds to cover personnel uh administrative overhead uh costs within our uh economic development and housing areas. >> Okay, good. Thank you. Questions for um uh Director Neil this matter? Yes, Commissioner Jackson, go ahead. >> This is more of a discussion. Um I I referenced this earlier that people talked uh residents will often raise the question of a industrial plan or an economic development plan and I've talked with Mr. Newondorf about this and that we are an HA housing and redevelopment authority. We are not an economic development authority and that's a whole different governmental body that we could create. Other cities do. Um, and so I want to acknowledge what a deal we actually get with director or with manager Neworf that he does the job of redevelopment, but he also does within the parameters of what we have available a lot of economic development work. And so, um, when people are talking about the budget overall, you know, they're like looking for efficiencies and everything. I think this position is one in particular where we get a lot for our money. And I wanted to acknowledge that and then if people are interested in a broader industrial policy and overall you know how can we build the economy vina that's a huge undertaking that's very different from what we have the capacity to do now and so I am grateful for the work that that is done I think it um you know is a lot I think we get a lot for our money and I want to just publicly acknowledge that >> thank you commissioner Mr. Cra, do any follow on? >> I completely agree, but I couldn't say it any better. So, thank you, Commissioner Jackson. >> I think you uh you've said it for that >> comment this morning. All right. Uh in this the 3% increase over 2025 and there was a 3% increase in 2025 over 2024. Kind of tracking the rate of inflation and the and the and the salary structures that we have at the at the city. I know we've had some uh folks in our community raise that same issue with respect to our general budget for the city council. Why can't that be consistent with what you're doing elsewhere around the you know the rate of inflation? And so I think when we get to that budget discussion in the middle of December, that might be one thing that you want to be prepared to discuss uh why we're at uh you know around just under 9% on on on the proposed budget from staff uh and possibly lower than that based on some other things that you're looking at right now. So uh with with regard to resolution 2025-09 uh which would adopt the proposed H budget and establish a proposed tax levy payable in 2026. Is there a motion to adopt that resolution? >> So moved. I second. >> Richard Jackson moves. Commissioner Agnu seconds the adoption of resolution 2025-09 which would adopt a proposed HA budget and establish the proposed tax levy payable in 2026 to cover that 3% increase over 2025. Uh any further discussion? All those in favor of adoption of the motion stated say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. Carried. The motion is adopted. the uh HA budget and the levy are uh approved for the HR for 2026. And then we've got our executive director has a couple of updates on projects and maybe they're coming from uh manager Newondorf as well. >> That is that is correct. Okay, got the we're first one we're going to talk about is the uh what people in our community know as the is the Macy's home store site and that's the Enclave development at 7235 France Avenue. Turn it back to manager Nounorf for a project update there. >> Right. Yes. Thank you. I just wanted to to provide an update on this one. Um so this is the Enclave development. Um uh I don't have a big announcement or anything this morning. So, uh, but I just wanted to remind, uh, each of us that, uh, the city did pledge to use tax agreement financing [clears throat] to to defay some of the public type costs on this on this site. So, I've been working and keeping in pretty much constant communication with the project manager at Enclave. Um, the first big trigger to me for the financing world is when they acquire the land, right? They've done the zoning, they've done the reszoning, they did the site plan, they did the plat, all those regulatory things, they did it at our city council, but from a financing perspective, when they acquire the land, that's the trigger to me that shows that this is real. Um, that hasn't happened yet. It's been a tough year. It's been a tough couple years. Um, so I just wanted to let you know that, um, I am in constant contact with them. Not constant, about once a week. Um uh uh and they they still are on the path to close. Um when I spoke with them a few weeks ago, they were hoping to close before the holidays. Just from experience, you never close a big deal before the holidays because everyone takes vacation. Um so we'll we'll see if they actually get it closed before the holidays this year. Um but I think it is imminent. I I think the the announcement from the Fed about a small rate cut certainly is in their favor. It's been all the financial forces have been headwinds on these projects. Anything in 24 and 25 um you've noticed just a der of big projects around the whole Twin Cities around the country. So um uh when there is something to announce, I will certainly announce that. But I I put this on the calendar on on the schedule today a few weeks ago when I thought we just might be able to close it before the holidays. So um at our next meeting if they do close I will let you know. Um but also as we debate or discuss a potential design for a pedestrian crossing in this area, um closing on the land is a vital uh signal to me. Uh let's say that something goes wrong and they don't close on the land. We know that it's not going to be another furniture store, right? Macy's has already relocated. They've vacated. They are ready to move on. They're happy with their new location at the mall. But if this project uh is stalled for a couple years, again, worst case, and I hope we don't have to go there, but sometimes I think about these worst cases, I think it might be premature to do a lot of study on a pedestrian crossing. So, so closing on the land is a great trigger, a great signal to me. So, I've been uh I I keep myself informed. I will keep you informed as I always do. >> All right. All right. And then you've got an update for us too on the restructured uh spark loan to the Chamber of Commerce. >> Yes. Yes. Um the second update uh just to let you know that uh just prior to the Thanksgiving holiday, uh we did receive the second loan chamber of commerce, the second payment this year, right? We've received other payments. Um, so a few years back we uh this body approved uh a construction loan up to $800,000. They actually came in under budget. So we issued a loan for about 650. And over the last couple years um they've been slowly chipping away and repaying that loan back. So uh uh as of the moment the balance due is about $446,000 on their loan. um we did forgive part of it when they achieve certain milestones. Um and then they've been making loan payments. So, uh right now they're on track. They're on, you know, exactly where we expect them to be. Um of course there's still some disappointment. We wish that their training program could have worked out. Um they just ran into [clears throat] the, you know, the operation operating capital just wasn't there. Um, but since the space is built and beautiful, um, Shelley Loberg and myself have been working with Henipin County. Uh, Henipin has that Elevate Business program. And so in the fall, we held a session business training at the event. It was organized and paid for by um by the county, but they used our facility because that's what it was intended for. We're still working with the county. Um, I don't have any announcements on dates or anything. But we are looking into using that facility in 2026 for two programs. Uh um uh and I'll just leave it at that until we actually have a contract with them. But um uh but we'd really like to see that space better used. Uh uh Shelley Loberg at the chamber is on board and we've been working collaboratively on that. So um should be some good news in 26 to share. But from a financial perspective, their loan payments in, they're up to date and they're on the right path. Very good. Thank you, Mr. Endorf. Questions for Mr. Nundorf comments? >> All right. Uh, anything else that you want to update us on? Got a few minutes here. >> Yeah. What's the How about the status of the uh project on France Avenue? 7200 7250. It looks like they're coming right along on on both projects. >> Yeah, they're they're uh they're working right through winter. So, uh, the 7250, that's the office building. Um, that one is further along. So, they they came out of the ground a few months ago. I think they're on level three already. That's a concrete building. Uh, I think that's going to be five stories total. So, they're um&p is an equity owner. They are the contractor, and they will be the lead tenant. This will be the new headquarters for A&P Construction. um and they are working through because they want to get their new offices open. So, that one is coming together nicely. And then the 7200 site um uh they broke ground this summer and I last walked by there about a week ago. So, they're they're still working on their foundations. They haven't come out of ground yet, but um despite our snowfall, I >> think they're out now. They're out, are they? >> Yeah, it's looking good. I mean, they're moving fast on that building. >> Yeah. So, despite our snowfall and our winter, it's definitely winter. I can't ignore that it's not winter any longer. Um, they're still moving ahead. And, uh, the 7200 is a it'll be a concrete podium. The the basement on the first floor is concrete >> and then above that is it's wood panels, >> either five over one, what we call, >> right? >> Right. So, with these panelized wood construction, >> they can take shape really quickly because the panels are built offsite in a factory. So, they'll ship a whole semi- load full of them and then just have the crews erect them. So, they've got a couple tower cranes out there to help get the panels in place, but over the next several months, um continue to expect that to look like a real building. Um we're still probably a year away from actually having some anything finished, but they're on pace and it's nice to see those uh pro properties moving because they've been stalled for a few years. >> First rejection. >> Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. So, a number of people have been emailing us about the proposed underpass, and I'd like to confirm with you what I my belief is, and that is specifically speaking about these two buildings on the west side of France that as they progress, the window for being able to build that underpass closes. Can you talk a little bit about, am I correct in that? and and once these buildings are constructed and they're going to need to finish and we can't build the underpass after that time. Can you put that in more technically correct language for me? >> Sure. Sure. The city is capable of doing more than one thing at a time. Um but you're right, there is a constraint. So the um with the properties on the west side, I mean the the foundations are where they are. Uh there's a 60 footwide gap uh between the two buildings that we have a we've secured a public easement at no expense to the city on that land. The current plan is that um right now there's just a hole there. The current plan is the developer would fill in the hole, build a bunch of sidewalks, and plant a couple trees. Um if we decide to move forward with an underpass type of configuration at the at the at that location, um I would ask them to not fill in the hole. um and to not put the sidewalks in at this time. Um we're still a little um we're away still ways from making that decision, but um at some point we're going to reach uh the point in their project where they need to know what to do. Are they bringing in truckloads full of dirt or are they not? Um uh it'd be great to let them know in advance so they do the right thing the first time. Um but if if as a H or council we make a decision, we would simply have to undo what they've already done. Um so as we've as we've conceptualized how to do a crossing uh at this location, whether it's underground, above ground, or at grade, um I always take the the perspective of gosh, it'd be nice to do it right the first time to not have to pay for it twice. devel. It's on the developer nickel what they're going to what they're going to put there. Um they're going to pour concrete sidewalk somewhere. Whether they're at an upper elevation or a lower uh lower level, price of concrete is the same. It doesn't matter. Um but at some point this in 2026, they'll have to decide can they wait for us to make a decision or do they need to keep moving? So as they reach that point, I will be in touch uh with you. Um, but I, you know, for any major public improvement, um, we operate at our on our timetable, right? I mean, I don't think the city or the H should be rushed to making a a decision that we're not prepared to make. Um, but if we do make a decision too far in the future, the cost might go up, the the cost to us, and that's what we'd like to avoid if we could. >> So, I'm Yeah, thank you. That's extremely helpful. I'm also thinking sort of long time learns. I don't think we can hold this open for 5 years um for waiting for economic development for economic things to change without massively increasing the cost where as you said we would have to undo what the developer has done. I think it's uh probably unrealistic to think that uh the current conditions could be held open that long. Um, and then if we do defer five years, the it's a completely different project at that point. It's a it's a redevelopment project, not a a creation project. >> Right. Right. Um, so we've entered into um tax increment agreements with the developer here. And we carved out a whole chapter to buy both parties some extra time. Right. So, there's a a chapter, I don't remember what which number it is, in that contract that addresses a crossing that gives the city rights. Um, well, we always will have rights to that 60 foot. Um, no matter no matter what we what we choose, we have that right. Um, but so far, the developer has been very collaborative in working together. Um, uh, they think the underpass would be a helpful thing to them. They're happy to host it. They're happy to have people vis travel through their site. Um, but they've also been very frank that when they finish the project, they can't just leave a giant hole in the ground. They need to present a class A project that attracts tenants um that attracts rent uh rent uh renters, tenants in the apartment building as well. So, we'll continue to work closely with them on that. Um so more discussion needs to happen but again I um uh as we put together the idea for this pedestrian crossing it became clear that um uh you know trying to work with three parties. Two developers on the west side and at least two developers on the east side. Um the de develop the developers on the west. um their preference was for the city to build the whatever it was underpass, overpass, build it ASAP and get out get out of the way. The developers on the east side wanted they wanted to go first and we'd come in second and so um you know nothing's easy uh on these types of projects, but uh we have options and we'll continue to keep you informed. >> Terrific. Thank you. That's very helpful. Um, we talk a little bit about timeline here, but one of the things I've been a little bit concerned about is if what is what is the potential impact of Enclave not closing on the purchase of the property uh at Macy's as scheduled relative to the further commitment to study the passageway? Yeah, if Enclave does not close, I you know, I think there's um I think we need to rethink um the pace at which we look at this. Um you know, having a better, safer pedestrian crossing has been talked about since at least 2007. It's not a new idea. Um eventually that Macy's site is going to get redeveloped and you know I still believe that Enclave and Lifestyle will be able to find a way to get it closed and get it done. But if if they terminate their agreement and this is a big if um there's going to be a different developer behind them. Um Macy's is ready finally after decades they're finally to devest they're ready to devest from the property. Um so for the for the funding of the engineering contract um uh that was on a different agenda but um uh that funding comes from Centennial Lakes TIFF account. So um it's been a couple years since we've done that but years ago we we would do an overall spending plan for that Centennial Lakes fund. And just as as history, um, chair, you remember the history, but a lot of our, uh, more recent, newer, uh, officials don't. Um, Centennial Lakes was a tiff district back in the 1980s. It did remarkably well. Delivered a tremendous asset, park, shared parking, trails, art, all those things. Um, the the laws back in the 1980s were much different than they are today. And so in that district, we were able to retain some of the property taxes and hold them as an investment account for other future public investments. And so over the years, we've funded interchange improvements, trail improvements, sidewalk improvements, parking garage improvements, lots of public things. But we've also used those funds for studies and programs that were not in the regular budget. uh projects that were, you know, believed to be in the community's interest, but we didn't want to lop them onto the property tax. And so, um uh that's where we propose to pay for the engineering study. Um uh in the in the remote chance that Enclave does not close and terminates their agreement, I think we should have a discussion about whether or not we want to consider studying it. Um it's always good to um to have a shovel ready project. That was a term so many years ago. Um, especially for programs that are eligible for federal funding, state funding, regional funding, county funding, they want shovel ready programs. And so if we had a 30 30% design on the shelf to pull out, I think it would help us as we pursued other outside funding. But I'd also want to be cautious that we don't just spend money to have a preliminary plan that we keep on a shelf and then forget about. >> So, um, >> a lot of discussion still to happen on that, but we're keeping our eyes open and we'll certainly keep you informed on that. >> Okay. Uh, incidentally, somebody mentioned, you know, we've had folks write and say, "Well, what about the bridge?" We've analyzed the bridge idea. What about crossing a grade? We know that county, the Henipin counties weren't interested in throughput. We've improved those three intersections to try to get pedestrians across more safely. But uh somebody suggested to me that we talked to Scottsdale, Arizona that has figured out a way to get people safely across at grade on a sixlane road on I think it's Scottsdale Road up near, you know, shopping centers and other things. And so you might want to take a look at them or contact your counterpart in Scottsdale to see if you can learn more about how we could potentially approach the county on an AT grade project if this other one, you know, if we don't decide to go forward on the other one. >> Sure. Good example. Happy to look look into that further. Um >> uh and you're right. When we started meeting with the county, that's where we started. How do we make the crossing safer because right now it's not convenient and it's not safe. And the county transportation officials made it abundantly clear that they will not change the signal timing. They will not allow the yellow flashing beacons. All those things that might work on a smaller road were not of that door got slammed not closed gently. It got slammed shut right away. And that's why we've been focusing on either going over or under because those are the only two options. But I'm happy to look into other projects to see if maybe the county would have a change of mind at some point. the county might change their mind if if it otherwise makes any sense. It might be a totally different situation, you know, but uh at least as we go through this process, take a look at it because we all recognize that this is a potentially expensive project and uh and requires careful analysis. So, uh in other just an observation, I talked to uh Mr. Carlson one day about something and um who's a the developer on the west side projects at 7200 and 7250 and uh he indicated that that was the second those two buildings uh in that block are the second biggest project going on in Minnesota at this time which is which which speaks to the challenges that you were talking about in the industry about getting things financed and probably helps us understand a little bit better why we haven't seen activity of what we think is one of the best commercial corner ers in our community and that's at 70th in France at the US bank site and especially with somebody like MA Mortonson which is one of the country's premier uh developers and construction companies u hoping to get something going there fairly soon too. >> Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And with the 7250 and 7200, um, you know, the city pledged tiff and then we provided a spark loan to the to the apartment. Had that not happened, we'd be looking at two big holes in the ground. I mean, look at everything else that isn't happening throughout the state of Minnesota. So, those are a couple more examples of where intervention by the HR to pursue project projects that were ready to go. they were just pending financing and you know both of those projects were arranged to meet public goals with easements and conservation areas and sidewalks and trails and affordability. Um had had this body not intervened there'd just be dusty hole in the grounds. >> Okay. And I and I know those folks would like to have a meeting with the HA to just talk about the universe of issues that they're facing and to see if we can kind of collectively brainstorm some ideas about how to get that moving forward. And I think I think that would be you I know you've been working really hard at it. But you know some new eyes on it and some and some broader thinking from more people uh and understanding the array of issues might be a good thing to do and have h have a work session with them. >> So >> yeah. Yeah. at the 17th in France. We're happy to do that. Um, as well, um, uh, I mean, the the last conversations we've had with them about, uh, the city funding the parking garage, we can do it. It's legal. I don't believe it's in our community's best interest. And I, my report clearly stated that. So, I think there has to be a different way to um to reach resolution and get that project moving. It's a class A site. It doesn't get any better than that site. [clears throat] But right now, the economic headwinds are at gale force. >> Yeah. >> And so, um, we're going to have to get creative and, um, uh, and, you know, think about thing doing things differently because the same old thing, the same old patterns aren't working. So, we're going to have to, you know, nobody on this on the council or the H is going to do anything to jeopardize a double AAA bond rating. And if building a public parking ramp out there puts us into that potential territory, I don't think anybody's interested in going there. So, and they understand that, but I think having understood that, they just want to have a meeting with us to talk about the array of possible pathways that wouldn't involve that, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Mr. Jackson. >> So, yes, Mr. Chair, I just want to say that if we were to have a work session too, then that brings the public in that they can understand as well. And I think that there's some interest in people knowing what's happening and if we have a discussion, we can bring their voice to the table as well. >> Yeah. Correct. Yeah. It's not a public hearing, but it is something that people come and and want to listen to and see where we are on things. So, that's >> public information gathering. >> Okay. Uh, anybody on the on the commission have anything else for the good of the order? >> I want to say thank you to our snowpaul plow team. >> Fantastic work. beautiful streets and wow, we've gotten a lot of them. So, thank you. Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah, the streets look great. People have been doing a great job. Um, so and I don't have nearly as much snow pushed up in my driveway mouth as normal. So, they're doing a good job with some of their kind of piece of equipment over there on our street, I think, for some reason. Um, okay. Well, is there a motion to all of you? Happy holidays. We're uh probably not going to be meeting again before uh Christmas. So, um, I haven't looked at the calendar. I don't see the calendar in front of me here, but, uh, is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So, moved. I second. >> We got a motion by Commissioner Jackson, second by Commissioner Cherry this Thursday, December 11th, 2025 at 8:59 a.m. Any further discussion? All those in favor of adjournment say I. >> I. I. Opposed. Carried. We stand adjourned.