e all right all right all right welcome oh we got another commissioner coming in the door commissioner Smith why don't you come and join us all right welcome everybody to the July 10th 2024 City viina Planning Commission meeting on behalf of the rest of the Planning Commission we are grateful you are here in person and for those tuning in remotely your thoughts your feedback your participation is vital as we navigate change together here in Idina specifically regarding the ways in which people want to use their land so tonight we have one public hearing I'll get into kind of of the details and the instructions for that when we get closer to it but uh just so you know what to expect I'll do a quick rundown of the agenda and then we'll open this meeting so we'll have a call to order followed by roll call we'll have an approval of tonight's meeting minute or meeting agenda and then the prior meetings minutes then we open it up to the community comment period which is a chance for anyone who is here in person to speak about a matter not on tonight's agenda and then after that we have one public hearing and it's a variance request we have no reports or recommendations which sometimes include sketch plan reviews which unlike a public hearing is a chance for us to give non-binding feedback to a more informal potential application so instead we go right to chair and member comments followed by staff comments and then adjournment uh it is important to know that we take all feedback that we hear before the meeting that comes to us through email or through our better together.org engagement website we had no comments for this particular project shared with us uh but it's it's important you know that any project that's on the table is on there for you to learn about and you to comment about so feel free to tune in to that and take a look at what's coming on the July 24th meeting there's a a a project in Southdale area so take a look at that and if you have any comments we will see those so without further Ado we'll call this meeting to order and then roll call commissioner elire here commissioner Miranda here commissioner Padia here commissioner Smith here commissioner day here commissioner felt here commissioner hanaman here chair Bennett here here oh good you guys are sharing nice you could just take your own you know help you out a little all right so uh next we have the approval of tonight's meeting agenda I'd welcome a motion if it all looks good motion to approve the agenda second all those in favor say I I so moved next we have the approval of the prior meeting's minutes June 26 if there's no proposed changes I'd welcome a motion to that too motion to approve the minutes second all those in favor say I I so moved next we have the community comment period like I mentioned this is your chance to talk about anything not on tonight's agenda for those who are here in person you have three minutes you can come to a Podium say it's your full name address and tell us what we need to hear and you can come forward if if you'd like all right seeing Just Smiles and no one moving we'll move right along okay next we have our public hearing like I said we only have one tonight it's b245 it's a front yard setbacks variance request for 6716 Arrowhead pass uh just a little bit of this process so when a formal application's made the city has 6 days to make a ruling on that staff puts together a report as they look at all of the you know facts on the table and how it jibes with our current codes and they provide us that report and they provide a presentation base on that report right now and we the Planning Commission will have an exchange back and forth with staff after that we let the applicant if they would like to provide their own presentation followed by another back and fourth and then following that we have the actual public hearing part and that's when we'll open it to a public hearing for those who are here same to the community comment you have three minutes and you state your full name address and you can speak about your thoughts on this request uh for those tuning in remotely if you would like to get in the Quee to speak I'll give you the instructions right now and I'll repeat them again when this time comes but this allows you to get ready now so if you're tuning in and you'd like to participate with the public hearing please call 312 535 8110 and enter access code 2633 212 0259 the password is 5454 then press star three on your keypad when you'd like to get in the que to speak this will be on the screen later so you can see that and maybe maybe right now so uh that should give you the right info to tune in and then after the public hearing is closed then we take it back and we deliberate as a commission and provide a recommendation for approval or denial of the request without further Ado planner Aker take it away thank you chair members of the Planning Commission the applicant is actually requesting a plan modification for a variance that was granted back in 20 21 um it's it was for a tear down rebuild uh located at 6716 Arrowhead pass and that is located right here uh you can see the house it's been built uh act the variance request or modification to the plans for the 2021 uh variance approval uh have to do with the site uh work that needs to be done and completed on the property uh currently there is is no certificate of occupancy that's been issued on the house because uh there is some outstanding site work that needs to be done uh there was some retaining walls that were uh installed and they needed to be engineered so they need to be safe they needed to be replaced and engineered uh there's also a storm water trench that needs to be installed and as part of that um this is the house that had originally been there um had a PO schol and an out building it's a multi-level home I point this out because the original variance requests matched or nearly matched the setback of the back corner of the house um from the culdesac as you can see from the survey the other two homes that are adjacent are very far back from the front lot lines which severely affected the buildable area of the lot so the highlighted area is actually the build area of the lot it's about a little less than 650 Square ft the house was built uh in generally the location of the old house and that corner of the garage the back corner of the garage is approximately at the same setback as that old house now um moving forward the house was built uh there were some improvements to the site however they were deemed effective by the building apartment a certificate of occupancy could not be issued um there is a new owner for the property as part of the variance request um they would like to modify the site plan to allow uh there is a small patio on the west side and also on the east side they would like to expand the patio to the north and to the South and then also expand the patio along the north side of the house and um towards the east which is the red area on this site plan those are the areas of improvement that they are needing a variance for because they're modifying that original site plan that went around went along with the 2021 uh variance approval you'll notice that some of those improvements actually do conform to the ordinance requirements which is um the entire house is outside of the buildable area of the lot so it's it's an extremely challenging lot not um the site work will finish the retaining walls and also the trench strain that's needed for uh storm water management and then it will allow for um the installation of the patio and then also there's an extensive Landscaping plan that they are planning to install um none of the conditions have changed in terms of um the um approval findings for the 2021 variants everything Remains the Same um it's just a matter of modification for uh accommodation to those slight um increases in patio area staff uh does recommend approval of the variance modification uh the recommended action would be uh approval of the 85.9 Ft front yard setback variance for the property at 6 716 Arrowhead pass approval would be subject to the findings listed in the staff report and um our the Practical difficulty is caused by the required average front year setback requirement and the culdesac setback there's virtually U very little buildable area of the lot there are circumstances that are unique to this subject property those unique circumstances include the St the two Street frontages and the culdesac that's severely um cut into the building area of the lot the proposed modification to the 2021 variants granted are reasonable due to the circumstances that are unique and not self-created and the proposal would not alter the essential character of the neighborhood the site modifications will be in harmony with the general uh purpose and intent of the ordinance all of those patio improvements will U maintain the required minimum setback along that north side and it's also within the maximum 50% um hard surface or impervious surface coverage requirement with that I can stop and answer any questions that you have there's um Patrick Sarver with uh the Civil site group here who um worked on the designs and then also Richard barama who is the realer uh representing the homeowner with that I will stop and answer any questions you may have thank you Chris any questions yeah commissioner Miranda can you go the table explaining what changed since last time CU I'm I'm kind of confused I Tried reading this like five times and understanding what it is we're improving so what you're approving is actually the plan modification the change is that the plans are tied to the the the variance was tied to the plans presented and they are changing um the fact that this area of patio is increasing in size and within the area that's outside of the buildable area outside of that yellow triangular piece anytime you uh look at a property and the variance is actually the closest point to um whatever the structure is or Improvement is um to the lot line so this actually is much further from the lot line than what the variance original variance request was four it's actually for that back corner of the garage that's not changing it's really a question of a plan modification that was approved at for that 2021 variance so the so the building has not changed is that true has not changed okay it's not changed okay so it's so we're just looking at the um the patio and that meets All City requirements is that what you what you saying it will meet all the city requirements but it is a modification from the right so okay so that's all we're looking at okay yep thank you that's so just some context like often times if a plan changes and something happens you know usually the building hasn't been built and it it will change and we'll see something totally different but since that variance is tied to that specific site plan which includes the building even though the building hasn't changed since that's changed we need to kind of Grant this it's almost like a sub variance you know that makes sense yes so this is something that the staff would normally review and approve just a design change to the plans but for the fact that it's tied to the variance which has nothing to do with the changes that they're making is that right unless their changes went beyond you know the acceptable standard which they don't so just a quick question um I'm curious just the statement that the home is not livable uh is is that something that's unique here cuz that's the first time I've kind of I know while you're building a home right it's going through its process and then you know you can't stay it until it's completed is that what's happening here or is there something unique about this that doesn't make it livable at this stage well the home is as far as I know it's livable um but the building department cannot issue a certificate of occupancy if the site work is not complete and there was an issue with the retaining walls because they were not properly engineered and so they were deemed unsafe it and that has nothing to do with the occupancy of the house it's just that um and the the um the the trench drain was not installed um and they've had to tear up some other work they're they're trying to finish up the site work and a certificate of occupancy will not be issued until all of that site work is done as well and to make sure that it matches all of the plans that had been approved and that also were uh submitted for permit application and approved for that through that process so um once the entire project is done and complete then they can receive a certificate occupancy it really it's not affecting the house it's the entire site so just to follow up there just a I'm you know me just trying to be curious you could live in a house even though you have not received a certificate of occupancy is that possible so the house is livable you can live in it right everything is fine they just don't have that certificate yes I I don't want to speak for the building department but I they haven't had any problems with the house that I'm aware of um I was made aware of the fact that certificate of occupancy has not been issued given the fact that the site work is not complete and it wasn't done according to the original plan and it wasn't done uh with the retaining walls had to be corrected thank you any other questions okay I guess this would be we'd give a chance to the applicant team to either either provide a different presentation or just stand for questions if we have any uh but we'd welcome you up just state your name your address who you are what you do you know all that stuff thank you chair members of the commission my name is Patrick sver landscape architect with civil site group um Chris did a wonderful job of explaining the project it's pretty straightforward we're just trying to reconcile the plans with the approvals that are in place to get the project completed we'll stand for questions if you have any great thanks for standing uh any questions so yeah maybe no thank you that was quick good thank you all right so now is the time we'll open up to a public hearing so again this is a chance for anyone who's here or tuning in remotely uh we will first open the table to anyone who is here that would like to speak about about this you have three minutes to do so and you can come to the podium it's amazing that's all they have to say thank you best to follow the rules here yeah uh I'm R Richard Brahma uh I'm here on behalf of the homeowner he asked me to speak on his behalf just to be here he is currently in Vegas uh practicing with the national team for the Olympics um so obviously he couldn't be here uh so my address is 9371 kyola Trail Chanhassen Minnesota and we have with us here um Patrick Sarver which you just met and then also the gentleman who stepped up that's that is amid Cella and he is the contractor on the project and we're here really only to answer any of your questions as they come up specifically related to anything in this project so you got the whole team here thank you very much for your time thank you right so let's turn it over to the virtual queue I know we put the info up on there but we'll state it again for anyone who's tuning in you can call 312 535 8110 enter access code 2633 212 0259 the password is 54 54 press star three to get in the queue to speak we'll give it a minute yes okay one minute starting now any music yet no [Music] sorry all right e has been one minute and nobody has joined the queue to speak so I think we're safe to proceed the longest minute ever all right I know uh I'd welcome a motion to close a public hearing motion to close a public hearing second all those in favor say I I I so move the public hearing is closed and now we'll take it back to the commission to deliberate I'd welcome any comments or motions uh Sher Bennett I have a question for the applicant if I could sure um desperate to know what sport the owner is training with the Olympic team for oh fantastic thank you outstanding thank you [Laughter] one more famous exactly any comments sure you know when I look at this plan I'm going to vote in favor of this but if this had come to me be um if I had been part of this prior I would have ask that all of those retaining walls be moved away from the property line just because I live in a neighborhood where properties are on top of each other and property lines are where everything is kind of like left over and like left to the adjacent neighbor and then zoning laws change being able to access um Landscaping in the back I realized the neighboring lots are higher being able to access the or get access to those areas I think is important um you know so I'm going to be in favor of this but if I had seen the retaining walls um originally I would have asked for them to be relocated a bit thank you comments welcome emotion too I'll just say that I I ran by the property on Monday and the Landscaping is gorgeous it's very close to my house um and it's fits right in with Indian Hills but you know it's it's definitely above and beyond so very nice um and on top of that I would motion to uh approve the amendment to the 2021 variance approval based on the findings and the staff report second second all those in favor say I I I opposed so moved congratulations the variance is been approved thank you have a great evening and that concludes the bulk of our work tonight so that's quick uh and now we move thanks a lot now we'll move to chair and member comments if there are any Yep this is uh just a followup to the certificate of occupancy question so I think I got most of that right like a a property could be livable completely fine but then until you get that certificate of occupancy I guess what what does that carry like what's the the penalty if your home does not have that are you living in that house illegally essentially that's what I'm trying to get to like what's the meaning of that if you could still live in a home and you don't have have that certificate yet well the building department will issue a temporary Co um if there are some things that need to be uh taken care of and um once those things are taken care of then uh the certificate the permanent certificate of occupancy can be issued um in this instance because of the retaining walls there wasn't going to be a certificate of occupancy because they're very high retaining walls and they were not in engineered and there was concern there was a safety concern so regardless of whether you're living in the house um there was a safety concern on the site so there wasn't going to be even a temporary certificate of occupancy issued until those things were rectified so it was it's just it's not a function of the the house in this particular instance it was the the site workor that needed to correction so I could understand if you have to sell a home I'm sure bank would look at do you have a a COO in place right maybe they might look at that I still don't understand like I I get what you're saying but I still don't see the the need for it if you could live in a home and you don't have it signed off by the city you know so that's what I'm trying to get to you would have to get a temporary certificate of occupancy not living there they're not living there there's nobody living in the house currently and it be an insurance issue too so every building that goes to the building department and has plans stamp by the building department when the building department when the project is finished that's when so your house it's not necessary or needed you could sell your house because it's a livable house um but if a set of plans go through the building department the building officials check to make sure it's all the structural engineering and the things that are needed by code like life safety issues are taken care of and then as soon as a building is commissioned for the first time it gets a certificate of occupancy gotcha so yeah I was confusing something it's livable but no one's living there correct gotcha nobody has occupied that house okay it's been vacant okay gotcha thanks guys appreciate that and also like from a tax perspective you couldn't appreciate a building like an apartment building if you owned it until you had a certificate of occupancy it's not considered complete until you have that Co good question though and helpful for people listening I'm sure any other chair member comments oh we'll start oh my gosh we got a few all right it's quick um I'm not aware I don't does the City Concern itself with um financing of um like I'm wondering there's there's a quite a few properties where the city council has approved it we have approved it or it doesn't matter suppose if we've approved it but the city council has approved it and um we haven't asked any questions I don't know that they have either about the financing um and they're sitting in their vacant do we know if that's because of they haven't been able to get financing the commercial properties on France yeah yeah so I don't I guess I guess I don't know the official rule but if you when because those are all part of a PUD with multiple components to it and the various components parts and developers couldn't get it all financed collectively the way they had originally planned so they're still waiting they're still trying to get it financed or I guess I'm not aware of I haven't spoken to them directly but only through networks events and stuff new as of several months ago the W by the US Bank they just it doesn't pencil anymore because of interest in inflation and and the one the other one's further south on France same thing I speculate I mean I imagine that's the case I mean the lending environment like we saw with the ever even a d reality building I mean from 2019 when things were booming to now it's double what it used to be but the city council doesn't look at that I mean in that there's approval is in function of that okay thanks good question where maybe we could provide an update when we know it because it is it becomes kind of public knowledge if someone you know lets a purchase agreement go um no but it it would be once they let it go or if you knew personally I mean we can share certain things like for instance the one right over here across 100 like that dim pencil out and Opus has walked away from it so like but we only know that because of the relationship with the city if it's two private individuals oh sure sure correct and on Better Together there is development tracker yeah so when things become more public the city does update yeah we're just in this unusual cycle right now where we've seen a lot of things approved and they've sat and not happened where maybe 5 years before that what we've SE approved has mostly happened but question speaking it Better Together how is that advertised I was at a event with a bunch of neighbors and mentioned it and everybody goes what's that and I being who I am I knew what it was I didn't realize but it was eight other couples and none of them had heard of it so I was just wondering how do we get that out there currently and are there ways we could do it better were you in Edina or yes I was I was in Wisconsin no I was I was down the street for my house and was just amazed that none of them had heard of it clearly it ought to be better advertised if that's the case um I'm function it was a function of the pandemic Better Together there oh it's relatively new yep we in sorry I don't know if I'll be able to speak to it perfectly but yeah it's relatively new it did come to be during Co um multiple different departments use it so engineering uses it for streets um you know we use it for public hearings and development in terms of advertising though we may have to get back to you on exactly all of those routes that um Administration and other departments advertise it on yeah I mean if you go to the city website it is one of like the top popular services and it just has an icon of people I don't know if you would know what that means or you know you know it's just better together you D I don't know if you would know to click on that for instance I can speak to this a little bit too so Lauren over here um in Communications we use it a lot to tie back to like big stories that we're doing so when we have Edition din newsletter come out and we have a story that's kind of featuring something on Better Together We put that link there so people can go check it out um we also put it in every public notice so um when people want to go give their feedback they can go directly to that link to provide that but yeah we also have it on our main website and I think we probably have some different Market marketing materials and stuff out there too so hope that helps it's almost like obviously triggered if something happens close to you and you get the notice but I mean that's good feedback just in general about how to get people connected to that cuz it's not just readily on the website as one of the tabs it's I mean I'm looking at it we know what it is but if you didn't I don't know if you would click on that um so that's good feedback that we should follow up on for sure yeah but I mean if you go to velopment tracker for example and you click on more info it goes right there I mean I I think everything the city does ties back to it I mean maybe not on the homepage but any announcement the city does pretty much always ties back to it so I mean I'm not saying people don't know about it they don't but they're probably not engaged in any particular project or or researching anything this was we were it started because we were talking about the park Renovations and they didn't realize that there was a mechanism for them to vote and somebody saw a sign and was like what is this going on so I don't I don't know what Avenues other people log on to the Adina website or or follow them on Facebook or whatever but it just if you don't care about land use that maybe not the first thing that comes to your mind when you go to the city you're probably there to pay your water bill or something so I don't know was 16 adults and my husband and I were the only ones that knew about it so take that for what it's worth right but like they just redid Weber Park and they had signs all over the park and they had you know the barcodes to go there and it would go to that site all the plans were on the site I mean i' I've reviewed them you know and not because I'm a commissioner you know I mean I don't know I think the city does a really good job of of advertising it it's like in every communication it seems like I just think people aren't engaged in a particular project and so they just don't they've never clicked on anything or or done anything that would take them there can I change the subject no please do tomorrow there is two popups for the Lincoln London Dairy small area plan uh popups the men collaborative and the city and a few of us and hopefully a few neighbors are going to um position ourselves at the Caribou at Lincoln and legendary and at the laden and um talk to people who are interested in the project so one is at one you know the time I'm I have it all right here I was going to talk about it um yeah so so we are having two popups tomorrow and two or and one on Monday um the two tomorrow are um from 1 to 2:30 and that's at the London Dairy shops at the Caribou patio um there'll be some informational Boards out there and um there'll be some interview forms we'll be interviewing people um to see you know why they're there and and what they want to see uh from the neighborhood um and we'll be handing out postcards and water bottles so if you want a water bottle stop by and say hello um and we'll have uh people there including Merryweather uh and myself and then two people uh two residents Steve and Corey from the uh from the working group will be there also um the second one tomorrow is uh 3:00 to 4:30 and that's at the Loden in the club room uh same thing five informational boards from a previous presentation the city gave um in the neighborhood and uh same activities and the same water bottles don't don't come to by twice and get two water bottles um and then on Monday uh from 5: to 6:30 it's at Walnut Ridge Park uh same thing and then in at that particular meeting will be Maryweather Steve Ryan and Corey awesome really cool way to engage the community yes something like this to that level I don't think has been done before it's really creative and unique and commend you guys for the awesome and this information is also un Better Together never heard of it but I'll look for it um and then there's another event Thursday again from 5 to 6:30 at Weber Park they are having ribbon cutting ceremony um and that was two years of reconstruction um in flood infrastructure so that was quite the project they took 90 some houses out of a flood plane it was it was a lot of work yeah that was a long G longterm win for the city when they bought that from Minneapolis and had plans to potentially help residents out with a potential project and I mean it's a it's a pretty cool one all the way through except maybe the temporary condition of when you don't have fully grown trees um it will look awesome anything else you had something okay couple of months ago I mentioned uh the national zoning Atlas the URL is zoning atlas.org if you have had a chance to look at it I'd encourage you to do so I brought it up in the context of working uh on the Utah zoning Atlas when I was out in Salt Lake City um the the basic premise of the zoning Atlas is that there's 30 some thousand different zoning districts in the US and they all are using different ways different language different structures as we've kind of started to learn in um our zoning audit so their goal is in their excuse me marketing is to digitize demystify and democratize zoning and uh when I got back here I got in touch with a professor at the U who was working on trying to put together a proposal to do a Minnesota zoning Atlas and I got some great news from him weeks ago that they have been funded by the University of Minnesota's Institute on the environment to do this work uh so I thought I'd just read the media release it's quite short uh the so the project is called mapping and reforming land use zoning in min inota land use zoning determines where people can live and work structures Transportation options and are a critical influence on carbon emissions however zoning rules are opaque and hard to study comparatively because of the different languages by District a Federated effort to create a national zoning Atlas is standardizing zoning rules nationally this project team will contribute a public use Minnesota zoning Atlas to the National project significantly improving our understanding of of land use law in Minnesota Additionally the team will produce a report identifying where changed zoning could support significant reductions in driving and carbon emissions and a comprehensive manual for cities on how to enable adaptive Urban infill housing to help support a transition to denser cities with reduced carbon emissions so they're going to be working on this for the next year uh their goal is to be done um I don't imagine they'll have every single zoning District in Minnesota done but they'll probably have have the zoning districts that represent 95% of the population in Minnesota done um and there'll be workshops and other opportunities to digest the work that they've done at that time and I'll keep everybody informed of it that's awesome thanks a lot great news great push yeah commissioner Miranda sure so um yes I I was going to mention the uh the popups and then um and as commissioner Fel said better together at D we have a a a subsite on there for the Lincoln and londonairy project um and there's places where users I kind of mentioned this last time but there are places where users can um or S residents can enter uh opinions on what should happen in this area so we'd love to hear your feedback on that um and uh let's see there there's uh um Q&A section uh members form it lists the members who are the citizens who are on the commission on the uh work group um and then in terms of the areas of potential change we have a first draft of our document and I expect that um we'll be presenting it at the next at the next meeting for for discussion and and potentially approval right M Pia uh you mentioned that at the next meeting there's a Southdale project that we're looking at could you be more specific let me just pull up Better Together .org what's that it is the one on the west side of France um the Orion development project I think it's the phase 2 piece of it yes pull it up the yes no the one with a water table problem right yeah 7200 7250 France Avenue final site plan review and zoning ordinance Amendment it's for phase two it includes a reduction and for first floor ceiling height from 16 to 14 ft I think there's an elimination of the ground level retail thank you entirely anyways check it out comment so we can be best prepared for next meeting thank you yeah um I don't know if everyone subscribes anymore but the suncurrent had an interesting oped challenging both us and the city council to think about the V Factor um when we're looking at big uh projects they were specifically I think referencing the Macy's site and just were expressing disappointment um at the lack of creativity um I thought it was well written and interesting not endorsing an opinion anywhere but she did uh the author did talk about you know uh Centennial and Southdale being the first enclosed mall and like that that took a certain courage and a certain wow and we're a community that uh was founded on that sort of concept let's keep pushing ourselves to do that in um in planning and on the city council so well written you for sharing anything else from anyone uh staff comments um nothing much to report other than just reminder we will have a work session at the next meeting that up here I'm sorry on August 14th we'll have a 5 o' work session on the Cannabis zoning ordinance Amendment thank you motion to adjourn the meeting second all those in favor say I am so moved the meeting has been adjourned thank you everyone that was like that previous project mhm