[0:01] folks as soon as we get a green light here on the center Podium [0:06] we'll we'll go to [0:23] work well good evening everybody it is uh Tuesday November 19 2024 7:03 P.M [0:30] this is the city council meeting for the city viina uh on this particular date [0:35] and um director benot has talked a little bit about the fact that we're running these meetings in a hybrid sort [0:41] of fashion we've got folks in the audience live that's always a terrific thing to have people in the chambers and [0:47] then we've got people listening online uh two opportunities tonight to speak to the council about matters that are of [0:54] concern to them uh and not scheduled uh or or not on the agenda this evening uh [1:00] and not scheduled for a future public hearing uh with those two um provisos [1:05] we'll be able to listen to people both in the audience uh and that come in uh through the mechanisms that we got set [1:11] up for their participation on both public comment and with respect to the one public hearing matter that we have [1:17] this evening so having provided that information I'm going to call the meeting to order and I'm going to ask [1:22] our clerk Sharon Allison to call the role for the council council member agnu here council member Jackson here council [1:28] member Pierce here council member Risser here mayor huin here next is the Pledge [1:33] of Allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag [1:39] of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation [1:46] God indivisible with liy and justice for [1:55] all we have a form of meeting agenda that's been published uh for the [2:00] requirements of our city ordinances and published for both the benefit of the [2:06] city council members as well as the uh public general public and is there a motion to does anyone on the council or [2:12] staff wish to modify the meeting agenda any form or fashion all right is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda is [2:18] published so moved second member Jackson moves member U seconds uh the approval of the meeting [2:25] agenda is published any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the meeting agenda is published say I I I opposed carried the [2:32] meeting agenda is adopted uh next we are at that Community comment point that I'm going to have the folks in the back room [2:39] put the numbers up on the screen so people that are listening in if they want to call in for Community comment they can do so uh but first let's turn [2:47] to folks in the audience and ask if there's anybody in the audience that wishes to address the Council on a [2:52] matter of concern to them uh it's not on the agenda or scheduled for a future public hearing if you if you want to [2:59] visit with the council feel free to come forward with that uh those criteria in [3:05] mind and I think you're going to need a handheld microphone if you want to stand there at the middle [3:10] Podium then we'll have you give us your name and address and you'll have three minutes and then you'll get a yellow [3:15] warning light when you got 30 seconds left thanks for joining us this evening [3:33] good evening my name is Jim groz and I'm a resident and taxpayer at 5513 [3:39] Parkplace I am also a 30-year tenant and taxpayer at 5200 Wilson [3:46] Road um I this is a picture of this of the South phase of [3:54] Maison green there is a similar Banner [3:59] on the west face of Maison green and we had a console [4:06] meeting here a while back and the management of Maison green was told you [4:13] cannot put up large signage like this on the [4:18] building so my question is why is this still here they were told they can't do [4:25] it and now this isn't the only now leasing signage that there is is in the [4:30] building there's additional on the west side and if this is okay perhaps I [4:35] should inform the property manager of 5200 Wilson Road they can do the [4:41] same and that brings me to another question it's pretty obvious that uh [4:48] this building is doing poorly because I walk by it or drive by it every day and [4:54] uh there's very few lights on at night and we also heard at a plan [4:59] Planning Commission meeting that the vacancy at the bower is 30 you know [5:07] 30% uh so my question to each member of the council is why are you [5:13] approving hundreds and hundreds of additional Apartments to be built in [5:18] this city when clearly there's not a market for it and my concern also is that this [5:27] property Amon Green is then the increment is partially pledged on a bond [5:33] issue these are General obligation bonds so if this does not perform and [5:39] doesn't get leased up and it does not perform the increment will not be there [5:44] therefore it's going to have to be made up by assessing the city taxpayers to [5:51] pay off these General obligation bonds As you move forward approving additional [5:57] Projects please keep that in mind because our taxes are already out of control the levy is out of control in [6:04] this city and apparently you aren't paying attention to the basics and this is one [6:11] of the basics and fundamentals thank you very much thank you Mr [6:23] grotz anyone else in the audience wish to address the Council on a matter of concern to them it's not on the agenda [6:29] this evening are scheduled for a future public hearing okay let's turn to the uh [6:36] virtual world and see if we have anybody waiting to speak to the council I don't have anyone online yet sir okay all [6:44] right our practice is to um uh address issues that were raised in [6:49] the prior council meeting through the city manager in this case the assistant city manager so we will ask now uh Ari [6:57] lens to see if she has any respon to community comments that were made at the prior city council meeting I do not okay [7:04] there were none made apparently that required response is that uh manager Neil responded to the one on the spot [7:10] that was a question very good all right and then um we'll take Mr [7:15] gr's comments under advis I can tell you uh Mr grotz that um every building I was [7:22] in during election season was at least 95 to 96% leased up whether there's lights on in the apartments or not [7:30] most of these buildings and and apartments in the Dina uh they were very satisfied about [7:35] the level of occupancy for the Maison green I'm sure it'll take them a little bit of time to get things leased up but [7:41] the bower you referenced I don't know who that made that reference at the Planning Commission but Bower told me [7:46] they were 96 or 97% leased up and I don't know if other people had that same experience during election season but um [7:54] these apartments are primarily full of residents whether in particularly in the [7:59] District full of tenants full of people calling an apartment [8:05] home um all right uh so let's move on then to [8:11] the next portion of the agenda and that is the um consent agenda is there anyone [8:17] on the council wishes to remove an item from the consent agenda all right hearing nothing is [8:22] there a motion to adopt the items on the consent agenda on a single motion so moved second member Jackson moves member [8:29] here second the adoption of the items on the consent agenda in a single motion uh any further discussion all those in [8:34] favor of adoption of the items on the consent agenda in a single motion say I I I opposed carried all the items on the [8:41] consent agenda are adopted uh now we're on to special recognitions and presentations portion of the agenda we [8:47] have one matter here this this evening and uh Bill nindorf our economic development manager is going to going to [8:54] uh introduce this matter and we've got um [9:00] think we've got Rebecca soron I see here she comes Rebecca soron back here who is the executive director of the 50th and [9:07] France Business Association is going to be here to accept the proclamation but manager new andorf go ahead yes good [9:13] evening uh the this item is a proclamation recognizing small business Saturday it's that time of the year with [9:19] the holiday gift giving season that we uh we really uh try to celebrate our [9:24] local small businesses that we have here in Adina so the uh the greatest part of of the economy is really those small [9:30] businesses and and all the additive measures that they make uh both to employing people to being part of the [9:36] community and providing services and goods to the community so there's a proclamation uh in your packet this [9:42] evening and Rebecca senson with the 50th and France Business Association is here with me this evening and is happy to [9:48] accept that Proclamation on your behalf and give a a little bit of information about some events that that they have coming up all right good I think what [9:55] I'll do is read the proclamation first and then uh we'll turn it over to you for some comments about things that are upcoming uh at 50th in France the [10:03] proclamation for small business Saturday which has been designated as November 30th 2024 reads as follows whereas there [10:09] are more than 2400 businesses located in the city of udina and according to the United States census over 90% 96% of all [10:17] firms who with paid employees in hen County have fewer than 100 employees and are classified as small business and [10:24] whereas small businesses are located in each of 's commercial districts including 44th in France 50th in France [10:30] 70th in Kill kahill Business Industrial Park Grand View Lincoln Drive Southdale [10:35] and greater Southdale Pentagon Park Washington Avenue and Wooddale Valley View and whereas according to the United [10:42] States small business administration small businesses account for two-thirds of the nation's employment growth and [10:48] whereas 79% of consumers surveyed in the 2021 consumer Insight survey understand the importance of supporting small [10:55] businesses located in the community and whereas for many local res stud the Thanksgiving holiday kicks off a season [11:01] of gathering dining shopping and experiencing arts and culture and consumers know that supporting small [11:07] independently owned businesses has a positive social economic environmental impact and whereas the SBA as well as [11:14] other public and private organizations across the country have recognized and promoted a Saturday after Thanksgiving [11:20] as small business Saturday and where as the city of viina celebrates our local small businesses and recognizes the [11:26] vital contributions these businesses make to the local economy and to the overall health and vibrancy of the [11:32] community now therefore be it resolved that the ad city council does hereby Proclaim November 30th 2024 as small [11:39] business Saturday in the city of udina and urges the residents and guests of our community to support small [11:44] businesses and Merchants located in each of 's commercial districts on this day and throughout the year is there a [11:50] motion to adopt the proclamation is read it's un moved M Jackson moves seconds the adoption of [11:57] proclamation small business Saturday designated November 30th 2024 small business Saturday any further discussion [12:04] all those on the council in favor of adoption of the Proclamation is red say I I I opposed carried the proclamation [12:10] is adopted I'm going to hand this to uh thank you I'm going to bring that bring [12:15] this down to you perfect thank you I'm have you make your thank you so much um Rebecca [12:22] Sorenson again with 50th in France and this is quite an honor to accept this Proclamation on behalf of the 125 [12:28] business is at 50th in France um thank you so much city council members for mayor and um economic development [12:35] director bill nindorf um for this distinction um today the holiday tree was actually delivered to the district [12:42] just as we're seeing the last orange cones leave after six long months of construction it's been a good day at [12:49] 50th in France and this makes it even greater so thank you so much I just want to share one anecdote about these [12:55] businesses that I think will make all of you realize how special it is to have a small downtown uh we went through a lot [13:03] together with the construction and there were businesses very concerned about their survival at one point and it was [13:10] one of our business owners um at a restaurant um Deo actually who stood up [13:15] and said we will help each other get through this we are a family and I want to just mention that [13:22] as the number one reason I think we should all shop local and support our small businesses we are are thrilled [13:29] that we're going to have the mayor and henip and county commissioner he Heather Edon with us as we light the district on [13:35] November 30th starting at five o'clock I hope everyone will join us all day there will be great shopping and dining free [13:42] carriage rides when you buy anything in the district you get to take a carriage ride you can have free gift wrap at our [13:47] new gift wrap station uh we're bringing in um all sorts of live music including [13:53] our former city council member Mary brindle and her bras Scots they'll be performing as well as our din High [13:58] School School singers and um The Voice finalist cat Perkins we're so excited [14:04] for the many things we'll be doing for the holiday season as we return customers to the district post construction everything from the Adina [14:11] theater is uh showing elf with a side of Adina Grill pancakes we're doing ladies [14:17] nights we're doing procrastinators nights we're also bringing in a candy cane unicorn if Sharon accepts our [14:24] application for a permit hopefully she will um and we think you're going to really love being back at 50th in France [14:31] um we're making it extra festive and um again we're just so thrilled that we've survived and we have so many small [14:38] businesses um with stories to tell from this summer and from the enduring construction that will soon be over we [14:44] hear tomorrow so that's an honor thank you again and I hope to see everybody at [14:49] 50th in France thank you [Applause] [14:59] okay [15:38] as I mentioned that's the only uh matter on that portion of the agenda the special recognitions and presentations [15:43] portion of the agenda and now we go to the public hearing portion of the agenda and we have just one public hearing [15:48] matter in front of us this evening uh and Addison Lewis Our Community Development coordinator is going to [15:54] introduce the topic uh and then we're going to hear from the applicant which is Alpha Investment Group they'll be [16:01] available for questions from Council Members then we're going to have a public hearing on it and I think there'll be a motion to close the public [16:07] hearing then on noon at noon on November 24th uh and continue the action to the December 3rd 2024 city council meeting [16:14] but we will take a live testimony tonight both in person and virtually and then continue it for written comment for [16:22] another week or so so I'm going to turn it excuse me I'm going to turn now to um Addison Lewis Our Community Development [16:27] coordinator to introduce the topic good evening mayor and Council uh as you mentioned the request tonight is for [16:33] site plan review in variance at 3,400 Edinburgh way uh the ex the property is [16:38] the existing 133 unit Marriott Residence in located in southeast D just north of [16:43] 494 uh Alpha Investment Group is the applicant and they are proposing to convert the existing hotel to a 136 unit [16:50] apartment building that would consist of seven Studios 122 one unit uh one-bedroom units and seven two-bedroom [16:57] units the applicant has indicated that all the rents would be affordable to uh those at 80% area mediate income and 68% [17:05] of the units would be affordable at 60% are immediate income uh the developer has indicated that they are not [17:10] requesting uh any financial assistance for this project U the project or the the [17:17] property is guided office residential on our comprehensive plan at up to 75 dwelling units per [17:23] acre it is zoned md5 mix development District uh which allows for apartment [17:28] buildings as a permitted use in that zoning District uh and then we just have some [17:33] photos of the site as it is today so this is the existing building it's 7 stories high it's a brick building uh no [17:39] changes are being proposed to the exterior um or really any site work other than some Landscaping improvements [17:45] that I'll I'll touch on here in a minute um so as I mentioned to [17:52] accommodate the request um the site plan review approval is required that's due [17:58] to the change in use use requiring some additional parking um more more than the use that is there today um there's also [18:04] a variance being requested for um not having any enclosed parking there's a requirement in the code that for multif [18:11] family uh there' be one enclosed parking stall per unit um there is none there [18:17] today so the the applicant is requesting a variance uh to have zero stalls and Clos but the site does contain the [18:23] minimum number of required parking stalls for the apartment um just that none of those would be in in [18:29] closed um so this is our pyramid of discretion that we look at when we're um making decisions so um with the site [18:36] plan review we're really operating here with very little discretion it's just a check to make sure that the project complies with the code um and it's an [18:42] opportunity for you to ask questions of staff and um the developer um and then with the variance we have some [18:49] discretion but it's limited to that um variance criteria that I'll touch on here in just a [18:54] sec um so here's a look at their existing conditions survey so we have the exting building up here on the North [19:00] End of the site um and then the remainder is really just this 185 stall surface parking lot um so by code the [19:08] use uh the conversion to the apartments would require 170 stalls so they exceed that um there is this 86 stall um [19:17] easement that um Edinburgh Park holds for for users of the park over 86 of the [19:23] Stalls um the parks department has indicated that they would like to keep that and the developer is aware of that [19:29] um and is not opposed to it it remaining um we don't anticipate that there would be any issues with parking the the [19:35] applicant has stated they think that they only need around 100 stalls and that was supported by uh the parking [19:40] study that was done that indicated a need for about 97 stalls um to accommodate the [19:49] proposal um so this is that variance criteria I mentioned U director Teague has kind of outlined the analysis in [19:54] your report I won't uh repeat all of it here but just to kind of summarize staff finds that the variance is Justified um [20:02] primarily due to the fact that they're proposing a reuse of an already developed site so if they were starting from scratch there really wouldn't be [20:08] any practical difficulty for the parking they would typically incorporate that underground or as part of the building [20:14] um but in this case the only way to really comply with that they would need to build a standalone Garage in the [20:19] front yard um from an aesthetic standpoint we don't think that that would be ideal um there's also the [20:25] possibility that if they were to do that that could potentially trigger a need for a variance from the building [20:30] coverage so potentially either way we're looking at a variance um and it would certainly require removal of a lot of [20:36] the existing trees that are uh within the landscape islands of that parking lot um we don't think that the request [20:42] would alter the existing character of the area given that is an existing condition and there are um a number of other sites uh that director T mentioned [20:49] in the report um other multif family buildings throughout a that just have surface parking lot or that do not [20:55] comply with this standard um another area where I think you have some discretion here um the [21:01] applicant is proposing uh to kind of beef up the Landscaping to better screen that parking lot um I think it's noted [21:07] in the report that they they far exceed the number of trees that are required here but as one way to kind of minimize [21:13] the visual impact of that parking lot they are proposing to do some additional Landscaping it looks like they're [21:18] proposing kind of a combination of some Arbor V spruce trees and some overstory trees here um I don't think we have a a [21:25] rendering of exactly what that would look like um like a Landscape Architects rendering but um the applicant could [21:31] answer uh any questions you have about the Landscaping um and then here's our compliance table so we do a check to [21:38] make sure the the proposed uh building complies with code really nothing is changing um so it either complies with [21:45] code or their exist existing conditions um the one thing that is triggered just [21:50] is that requirement for the enclosed stalls here so you see that that is what's triggering the need for the [21:56] variance um so the planning commission reviewed this at their October 30th meeting um and voted 9 to Z to recommend [22:02] approval of the requested site plan in variance um they did recommend that the council well and staff talked to the [22:09] City attorney about potentially requiring a um contribution to the Pax fund as as a condition of the approval [22:16] and in talking with our City attorney it doesn't sound like um well there needs to be a direct Nexus between any [22:21] conditions put on a variance and um and the variance that's being requested so um in talking to our City attorney it [22:28] was was not recommended that we do that um so tonight we're looking for a motion to close the public hearing at noon on [22:34] November 24th and continue action to the December 3rd uh city council meeting and with that be happy to take any questions [22:40] all right questions for Mr Lewis yes council member Jackson yes thank you Mr [22:45] Mayor um one of the conditions in the resolution is references a memo from the [22:51] park um Parks and Recreation and I just want to make it clear to the public that [22:57] this involves the use of Edinburgh Park that currently the hotel has the use of [23:03] Edinburgh Park and that the apartments will continue to have that use because I there's no playground or anything here [23:09] but it does have access to Edinburgh Park is that correct they would have access to the pool the track um any [23:16] Fitness facilities and the locker rooms but not access to the um the play Park [23:21] okay thank you all right other questions yes thank [23:27] you remember U go ahead so to make sure I understand hotels don't have the [23:33] requirement for enclosed parking so the site today is code compliant and it's [23:39] really the distinction between our city requirements between apartments and hotels is that correct yeah that's [23:45] correct thank you thank you member rer I have to [23:51] believe that we have other apartment complexes in Indina that do not have the required amount of enclosed parking is [23:58] that true that is true yep director T has identified several um in the report [24:05] um Yorktown Continental Sunrise Senior Summit Point senior the Heritage Walker [24:10] Elder Suites and most recently 66 West you yep good um standby I think we [24:19] may have some other questions that evolve here but let's bring the applicant up did you indicate uh Mr [24:25] Lewis how much time the applicant would have for their presentation uh no did you 10 minut 10 minutes 15 [24:33] minutes or so sure yeah [24:38] yeah and if you need renderings of the Landscaping I've got them uh some digitals set yeah that would be good [24:45] that's one thing I've been curious about so whether you want to use the the screen and show we we'll put those out [24:51] kind as I kind of just go through so um thank you D city council members for allowing me to present this project to [24:57] uh it's our pleasure with my partner AB Roberts and I um Alpha Investment Group [25:02] is presenting this conversion of the Marriott residents in hotel at 3400 Edinboro way to uh convert it to 136 [25:09] unit Apartments so have yeah please sort to interrupt but would you please give us your name and address for the record [25:16] uh Patrick jutton and 3400 Ed way ad is that is that work all right okay thanks [25:23] Mr all right thank you um so our proposed change of use is as we see it's kind of mean several uh [25:30] key goals that the city has um and and one of those is to give um attainable [25:35] rental housing in the city in in a quick and lowcost fashion um we don't um need [25:42] to ask the city for any funds on this project um like our uh was was discussed [25:48] earlier in the open comment section there's no government money needed at the city state or federal level to get this project uh completed um we um [25:57] because we're not a quote unquote formally affordable project um we don't need to have formal screening and [26:04] compliance criteria which add a lot of cost to a project um as we look at uh operating the building um we can deliver [26:12] units quite quickly uh we're planning by Spring 2025 to have this building uh [26:17] moving ready as we work our way through the floors and make them available for moving and the building um enjoys being [26:24] uh very ideally located to a lot of density for um good Workforce amenities [26:30] there's shopping there's groceries there's uh a great employment base and an excellent public transportation in [26:36] the area as well so we also like that this project is sustainable um we can [26:42] use it pretty much curly as is um we can hit a lot of the city climate agenda [26:47] goals by by keeping this project um uh without doing a lot of changes to it and [26:53] and I'll get into that and lastly we feel like the project the way we presented it is um in context with [26:59] what's already there uh with the Brookdale Senior Living and the Edinburgh office project and the park [27:04] they all kind of have a harmonious um unified look from when they were developed in the mid 80s into [27:10] the early 90s so we we've tried to keep that intact so a little bit about myself [27:15] um I've uh was born at fview Southdale many years ago so I at one point wasn't a din resident and then my travels took [27:23] me a little bit further away U but uh I've got about 28 years in real estate development um I started in Southern [27:29] California and and during that time um till currently we I've done personally been involved with about 200 million in [27:36] in real estate development in multif Family new construction and Redevelopment in uh single family track [27:42] and spec homes as well as commercial office uh value ad kind of that and also [27:48] we did a a period of a lot of loan workouts during the crash of 2008 through 2012 um I'm used to very complex [27:55] entitlement markets in Southern California um heavily rent controlled markets um and so I I kind of enjoy the [28:02] opportunity to work in um the Minnesota environment and and in the city of viina for a project like this um I also um [28:12] carry a general contractor's license and another entity and then have had a real estate brokerage license in both [28:18] residential and and but not commercial but residential for um approximately 20 plus years for each each of those [28:24] activities so in in the scope of this project the projects I get involved with I'm [28:30] very involved with for construction and for the lease up and followon management I find that the projects that I've done [28:37] well over the years are ones that we've kept internally managed and internally stabilized so um there were a few [28:44] questions that came up in the planning and on the community boards that I'd like to address about that but uh to hit [28:50] our first big Point um I I I like this project a lot and present to you because we're a market rate pro project but [28:56] we're affordable to abroad broad range of potential Dino residents and I think that's really unique we're coming at you [29:02] with a project that I would consider is a Class B building what makes a Class B well Class A is the shiny new fancy [29:08] buildings that you get a a commanding the top rents for and this building was [29:14] built 1990 was redone in 2012 um when when the Marriott required a Refresh on [29:19] the brand um the ownership that currently has it has had it since 2005 which prior to that was a Haw sweets if [29:25] you some of you remember and so we look at this building and say okay it's a little bit older we've got smaller unit [29:31] sizes um we don't have covered parking um and all that actually lends itself to making it quite uh unique in a [29:38] competitive field of when I look at a bower or I look at some of the other projects going coming up in Pentagon Park um and neighboring projects we can [29:46] deliver units that are quite affordable with a good amenity base but in a [29:51] building that's not going to have all the bells and whistles and I think that in IND when we're looking at where the housing hole is this is really weird it [29:58] is um certainly at the lower affordable um projects where we've got to be fully entitled and funded by [30:04] affordable programs but especially in these non um covenanted buildings where [30:10] you've got uh ability to De deliver 136 units in a quick time frame it it really [30:15] presents a unique opportunity um and that kind of gets me in the next point that in this situation um we don't have [30:22] to ask the city for funds because of the way the building is currently laid out to mer sits I I I um looked at the city [30:30] affordable website and talked to Stephanie Hawkins um a few times and [30:35] we're looking at a need in the city of 573 units of what our uh what our rental [30:42] uh targets are are at so what does that mean um we're in the if you define it 50 [30:49] to 80% Ami Target with our our rents so our one bedroom is going to be about 1250 a month they average uh 480 square [30:57] feet or our two bedrooms will go up to 1,700 and our Studios will be about 1,00 [31:02] so that's a uh uh in comparison to um [31:07] the new luxury units that are coming on or have come on the one bedrooms usually start around 15 to 1600 and those are [31:14] their teaser units and then um they quickly climb to about $2,000 a month for your one bedrooms in in the newer [31:20] buildings so we are around $3 to $400 less a month and that's a big deal because that means um when you look at [31:26] what you need to budget to rent in your in your income it's you know $1,000 [31:32] $1,500 Le less a month you need in your income to actually afford a unit like that not have it put you in a financial [31:38] pressure cooker um the um uh there's been some [31:43] concern about the Living Spaces being small we actually like the smaller living spaces we feel that this plays [31:48] well that we can um be more affordable because we're smaller but also because we've got so many amenities nearby with [31:55] the restaurants and the retail and the entertainment that um you're not going to be just hold up in your unit we also have the park [32:01] which is 70 degrees 365 days a year and and a full acre of coverage so if you [32:07] want to stroll out your apartment and go get a little walk in the the gr at the park so you're able to do it um we're [32:15] we're uh uh enjoy really good bus service at the stop we're right at the number six in the 537 and their stops [32:22] are right to the west of the property on our property curb um we're a block away from the 538 and the 54 all those get [32:28] you north south east west Downtown Minneapolis they get you over the U ofm they'll get you to Southdale the transit [32:35] uh station so um they you over the Mall of America just with those four bus [32:40] lines so uh we've got good accessibility to areas within the city where there's other employment bases we are planning [32:46] to add bicycle um parking um to um encourage more bicycle Transportation uh in our particular [32:54] property um and then in the smaller living spaces we also can can offer outdoor patios that's already there with [33:00] barbecues and we'll we'll uh make that a little bit larger um we have the ability to take the existing office space and [33:06] change that the co-working space so if you want to work out of your home remotely you don't have to do it in your unit you come down into our co-working [33:12] space and spread out a little bit more um and then we also have uh the great [33:18] Centennial Park nearby so there's there's a lot going on for this location that that to me overcomes just a small [33:24] unit size and so um we we like our sustainability uh of this project in a [33:31] lot of ways first of all it's adaptive reuse so we're keeping the building we're not holding any tear down um we're [33:36] able to keep it in the way it mostly sits the bill the units have kitchens they have bathrooms um you've pretty [33:42] much got a normal sized and and laid out apartment unit I'm sure of a few changes [33:48] that that need to be um that we've decided need to be made well for example bigger stoves they got little two burer [33:54] cooktops we like to put a a real range in there l and and make it again more of a home feel not a short-term stay feel [34:02] um structurally the building's in great shape um the way the low Bean walls work out whatnot we can we can modify door [34:08] openings easily to accommodate some of the Ada issues that the city building Department's brought up to us and um the [34:15] uh another benefit of the uh change to apartment use is we actually lower the vehicle counts um for traffic on the [34:22] from the hotel use uh and that was done by an independent traffic study that's a city commission so there's going to be [34:28] less Road use with this use as well um in our ramp um our cover parking which [34:34] we'll call it a ramp that variance has a huge impact if you build it and so there's a large sustainability pickup by [34:41] not doing it that meets the city climate agenda goals I kind of just looked at the concrete that you'd have to put in [34:46] this ramp and we're looking at 136 stalls um General metrics for a stall are about 320 to 350 ft per car that [34:54] gets about 45,000 ft 42 to 45 ,000 ft of concrete covered area um that translates [35:02] into roughly uh how many cubic yards that's 1300 [35:10] cubic excuse me I my sheet here real [35:15] quick 1300 or excuse me 1,200 cubic yards of concrete would go into a garage [35:20] that size roughly um if you look at the carbon print um seal uh dioxide print [35:29] that we put out that's the equivalent of 15 excuse me 1.5 million pound of carbon [35:36] just from the concrete that's not the rebar that's not the lighting that's not any of the extra stuff that's just the concrete side of things and and concrete [35:45] overall in construction contributes about 8% of the overall carbon footprint [35:50] uh a year on the globe so concrete's actually quite intensive to do because you got to heat it up to make it cure [35:57] and then that's and that's kind of one of the biggest uh carbon creating parts of it so what does that mean 1.5 million [36:04] pounds of carbon that's the equivalent of 32,000 trees a year just existing [36:11] they take up 48 pounds of carbon one tree that's equivalent 150 cars [36:16] operating for a year so if we look at if we look at that just by using what we've [36:21] got with the parking which which meets our need um we can save a lot of a lot [36:27] of carbon gas that we put in the environment just by uh building that [36:32] deck um I think also two the other thing about sustainability we've got the um [36:40] Landscaping screening which I want to get that up there just so you everyone can see that just give me a moment to [36:45] pull that out [37:13] okay so the landscape screening again adds a bit of sustainability because we're adding some some green green to [37:18] the property um this this top picture is a current Landscaping from 78 looking north um [37:27] shift that up like that this is our CAD rendering of with the added Arbor VD or [37:33] story trees and some lower shrubs so what we looked at doing and talking with [37:39] the city and kir Teague and their department is creating a visual screen so you're not seeing those parking lot [37:45] pocket views as you drive by the site that currently exist this is um kind of [37:51] from the southwest corner say more as you get towards calabella as is [37:59] and then this would be with our screen added in so we're proposing adding 5 to 8ot trees so you already get a good [38:06] coverage out of the gate instead of you know just little little tiny saplings [38:12] um here's that last shot so this is more kind of moving towards the west side of the property looking East so you can see [38:19] the Brookdale Senior Living Hotel again you got the Gap [38:24] here BR that up also we've got more of these Arbor vs going in the lower story [38:30] shrubs so along the Edinburgh 78 Corridor we're seeing approximately [38:37] 45 trees go in between the five and 8 foot size some will grow into be more [38:43] over story trees and that 40 foot size as time progresses and then about another 100 plus shrubs we going in [38:49] there as well based on our plan proposed plan if you want to see those again just [38:54] let me know I can bring those back up um so continue [39:01] on um we like the the project Aesthetics as they are we feel like we've kind of [39:06] uh got a sweet spot with the way the building is in terms of how it integrates with the neighboring properties uh the changes the public [39:13] would see obviously that the signage is coming down Marriott will dictate that all signage comes off the property since it's no longer Marriott property um so [39:21] you'd see a new building name which has yet to be determined and then some signage on the building um likely One [39:26] South Fe facing and one west facing those are currently signed windows on the building and then there's some [39:32] Monument signs as you comeing off 78th and URL um if you kind of contrast putting a [39:39] ramp on the site a ramp will likely add a couple anywhere from 10 to 25 ft [39:45] depending on how how high you had to build it or how you configured it to to accommodate 136 stalls but that would [39:51] obviously be in the front yard so a ramp would block your visual aesthetic of the building um again we feel that's not [39:57] conducive to to what the whole purpose is of of the covered parking to detract from the [40:03] building um the questions been added asked about us about who we feel the [40:08] target residence would be for this building um um and and we kind of looked at this economically but also from a [40:15] practical standpoint within the city there is um 41,000 commuters per day [40:22] that come in for employment into the city of Adina um that's 92% of the workers commun to be ding every day and [40:29] when I was talking to Stephanie Hawkins earlier today I said what do you what do you infer from that she said well you know it's not affordable I said yeah [40:35] that's kind of the same conclusion I make when you got that many people community and it's tough to tough to work and live in the same place so we we [40:43] really feel that with our um project we're going to have a project that is [40:51] uniquely affordable to a lot of the people who we feel are coming into that South darl Corridor to work and I wanted [40:56] to bring up that's only pieces of paper here here we [41:07] go here we go I'll put this one up okay so this came from the um city under [41:14] under the um affordable housing department so in this this slide here [41:19] you'll see I don't know if you can read that but it's just got the general wages annual wages for these different [41:24] positions in in um the uh employment categories and what I [41:32] did with this highlight here is point out that once you get to that 30 uh above 36,000 so about [41:40] 37,400 at $18 an hour uh where you start to be able to afford this unit and be [41:46] able to afford without stressing out any other areas of your life um so look at the type of people that can start [41:52] affording that unit um and again we're not having to qualify them just can walk in and say you know we want to rent the [41:57] unit but this works for our budget janitors and cleaners Preschool teachers teacher substitute teachers security guards Cooks landscapers nursing [42:05] assistants so we start to look at the healthcare workers up in Fair Southdale we start to look at L the retail employers entertainment employers that [42:11] are in the Southdale Corridor and this is really a nice opportunity for them as well as city employees who are first [42:17] year fir Fighters first year police I mean just where you you need something to to to to start building up your your [42:25] life um and and uh you can walk right into it and um not have to qualify or be [42:32] be requalified on a year-by-year basis it's it's it's really kind of nice to have something like this in my opinion [42:39] so Target Target residents fall into those categories that we we think are going to be in their Workforce entrance [42:45] young teachers young young Public Service people um city employees City [42:50] staff um we see retail staffers an 18 to 2our full-time shift being being able to [42:55] afford uh the units um we also see there's probably going to be a component [43:01] of the 55 plus Community that's not ready for book deal Senior Living much more independent and and and they like [43:06] that location like the amenity of the indoor park um and and frankly the people that don't want the class A [43:11] amenities they don't need all the bells and whistles but we again like to location like some of the basic [43:17] offerings we have that the building um can offer um and then the other question [43:23] I've gotten that I want to address is uh well once they got it least step what's going to happen in the neighborhood we [43:30] want to know what what the building longterm is we're we're long-term owners we plan to own our targets at least 10 [43:37] years um and so uh we would self-manage it and I said earlier on I find that we [43:43] do a lot better we self-manage and we give it to third parties um we get better retention rates we get uh less [43:50] nuisance issues um it's kind of just a long-term better operating plan for for [43:57] when I've been involved in real estate and putting out to third parties we would staff it with a full-time manager [44:04] um have an on-site caretaker and then have probably a three quarter time uh general maintenance staff [44:11] person and um again that would be by a company that I'm involved with that I own so there would be um no absentee [44:20] ownership if that were a concern so that is the project um so we're very excited [44:26] to propose it to you and uh happy to open up to any questions you might have of me at this point Thank you Mr Jon let [44:32] me ask council members uh but just a clarification so the did you hand out this this sheet or did this come from [44:39] our staff about the area meian income came from another [44:44] speaker oh okay uh so the sheet is showing area median income at um 1249 [44:52] which sounds about right to us and someone earning 80% of Ami by As I [44:57] understood from your testimony and and maybe Mr Lewis that the people that you [45:02] would be renting to your target market is the people that are at 50% to 80% of [45:08] area mediate income which puts them at roughly by my calculation 625 to $100,000 a year whether it's a [45:15] single person or I think those numbers families of four what that sounds High I think those numbers on that sheet might [45:21] be a family of four if you is that is that clear that's correct you're right it's for a family so and what I talked [45:28] about with you is like I'm looking at someone who's making in an individual not a not a collective family like if [45:34] you look at a studio for example we're going get four people in there from a practical standpoint but that that's [45:39] down at the 37 $38,000 level that you can afford that 12250 a month so yeah [45:46] the 120,000 number is well in excess of the 80% but that again that talks to [45:52] what a family for AMI would be so you're correct that would probably work for two bedroom but I don't think I can get four [45:58] in a one bedroom from standpoint so our numbers I I think we we [46:05] offer to talk that terminology I just want to make sure we're talking apples to apples and you know what dollars [46:11] amount would people really kind of need to be uh to be able to afford this other questions from Council [46:18] Members yes member rer okay since you you brought up greenhouse gases and all of that and you're putting in new [46:24] kitchens I have to ask are are you going to have an induction stove top or an [46:30] electric or a gas so we we we have um would it be gas when gas and building it [46:35] would either be electric or induction now induction would have to have a 24in [46:41] size model so we're going with a smaller Range model except in the two bedrooms that are 30s so that would be the one [46:46] thing I don't know if the manufacturers have an induction that size in that more efficiency size 24 in [46:53] width so I could get back on that though um but there will be no gas [46:59] yeah thanks um yes never Pierce thanks [47:05] Mr Mayor can you clarify again um you talked [47:12] about that this is 100% affordable and then you talked about [47:18] market rate and so I interpreting what you're saying to be [47:25] um this is Market rate uh but it's affordable correct okay [47:31] and so and I think I think you making a very good point affordable often is talked about as and this came of the [47:38] Planning Commission and and and one of the Commissioners put it very well affordable with a capital A as is kind [47:45] of the covenanted affordable Federal program State program [47:51] affordable okay so this is from just a budget friendly stand let's called [47:57] affordable like that a small a or I've heard you know attainable might be another word or well I definitely like [48:03] your explanation of how that could be because it's a um existing building you [48:12] know it's not a tear down rebuild it's not luxury so you you weren't describing [48:18] it that way um and so I that's kind of how I interpreted what you were were [48:24] saying um and so then my followup question to that is I think you said you were intending to be here for 10 years [48:32] did I hear that right yeah we've got a internally we decided it's a 10-year hold for us okay so what [48:38] happens after that when you hit your 10year hold Mark we either continue to [48:44] hold it or at that point we decide to sell it okay so you so at 10 years if [48:49] you were to sell yes we talked our and our investors saying you know be prepared this is one that we want to [48:55] hold for 10 years okay uh but if you did sell any developer could purchase that [49:00] and it could be luxury Town Homes at that point they do whatever they wanted to with it you could do whatever they [49:06] wanted to they can make it a hotel again yeah yeah yeah okay thank [49:12] you all right um with respect to the cost of covered parking um what would [49:19] what would it cost of being compliance with the ordinance well for for as an average [49:27] ramp costs are running around 25,000 per stall so we run about three and a half million with architectural engineering [49:33] what would that how would that affect your rents and in your target market do you say we're missing any D yes um in [49:41] terms of you know when I talk about the class B being you don't have all the bells and whistles one is you don't have [49:46] that then closed parking which makes uh something that somebody's not going to pay as much for with enclosed parking [49:52] and carrying that extra both debt and Equity we put in the project for our our [49:58] um analysis you know probably be around 2530 a month that we'd have to look at [50:04] on the rental side for what parking would would cost $25 to $30 extra per month yeah [50:15] okay very good that prompt any other questions from Council Members all right let's uh stand by Mr [50:22] Jon we're going to open this up now for public testimony this is a public hearing [50:27] and uh we're going to take testimony from folks in the audience first see if [50:33] anybody wants to address the Council on this matter and um reminder that you'll have [50:39] three minutes and on the uh yellow Lake goes on you'll have 30 seconds left so [50:46] you should be thinking about wrapping up your comments so we treat everybody the same way here all right anybody want to come [50:52] forward [51:00] oh good evening good evening would you give us your name and address please I'm will [51:07] rert and uh I live in uh [51:13] Edinburgh 7 7621 [51:18] edenboro all right thank you go ahead well my concern is um not about the [51:24] building or any of that but is about um safety and um how people are vetted to [51:32] live in these um Apartments um it has to be really good [51:38] and one of the reasons I say that is there is um hundreds of kids there during the [51:47] summer and the rest of the year and there's only like a 50 ft between that [51:52] and um you know where they have this recreational area for kids and boy you [51:58] go over there and there are kids everywhere and I think we need to have safety for that and the way to do it is [52:05] to vet the people very strongly that are going to live there uh I think that'd be welcome to [52:12] have people that can be working people but it has to be safe because of the [52:18] children especially okay [52:24] um and you know I'm not going to go too much beyond that but [52:32] I think other people could address that too um just [52:38] that um we have to think about that monor school you got little I don't know [52:45] fivey olds and they walk down Edinburgh away during the day they're all around [52:52] there's a play area um right next next to the building you're talking about or All Summer Long [53:00] these kids play and uh they have a teacher and 20 students and you got to watch those [53:07] people so that um nobody gets hurt or grabbed or anything [53:14] awful and so it's going to be be a requirement of this [53:19] building to be some pretty fine people living there and that's thank you will [53:26] thank you you it'll it'll just turn off by itself oh thank you thank [53:33] you anyone else wish to [53:41] testify please come [53:48] forward my name is Jan Bailey and I'm at 7606 in uh on York uh in the development [53:56] uh that he is also from and this just arises it might be a really can we get your unit number too please pardon your [54:02] unit number oh 7202 and this this may be a really [54:07] stupid old-fashioned question uh because I'm not up on technology and new cars [54:12] but um as uh a resident there who has underground garage and really [54:18] appreciates that but being a former homeowner for some years and um appreciating garage there but times when [54:24] I couldn't and knowing the need of inner city people often for Block old the old [54:29] technology of block heaters I don't know if that's still needed on newer cars but I would think there would be some part [54:36] of that population that would appreciate that in an open space like that and I [54:42] wonder if the developers might consider a small area at least um you know where [54:47] that would be held and then also um I just wondered if the map that you showed [54:53] up there um you mentioned or somebody up here mentioned or maybe the introducer [54:58] mentioned that uh there were trees in the islands and having walked around there a lot I would say yes there are [55:04] but the map didn't show those and so I was just wondering if they're being taken out for some reason and the other [55:10] consideration I have is um a as a person who's moved here from the center city [55:16] with safety issues um All My Life Center City pretty much um I look at that [55:21] parking lot and I think that it should not be walled in the visibility from the [55:26] street at least at ground level um for safety sense uh for people to be noticed [55:32] so that things aren't happening in that parking lot without passerbys or driver [55:37] drivers by being able to see activity that you know could be occasionally [55:42] nefarious anywhere uh so I don't mean to sound really um paranoid I'm not but those just seem like basic um helpful [55:50] things to me okay and otherwise I I appreciate the income level uh being asked offered and um the ReUse of [55:59] something like that yeah thanks M [56:08] Bailey anyone else wish to come forward and [56:17] testify all right let's check with the folks online that might want to testify regarding this [56:23] matter I do have someone on the line as a [56:29] reminder um if you would like to speak press star three on your telephone [56:36] keypad that will get you in the cutest Peak that's the aster symbol there we go [56:43] all right let me okay that line is now open please [56:48] Begin by stating your full name and address for the record hi my name is Josh fingerman and [56:55] I live on 56 6 46 into lock and circle go ahead with your [57:02] comments yeah so I city council to vote in favor of this project and now requireing close parking uh affordable [57:10] housing is like a national crisis and even more so in you Dino you Dino the average house price is [57:16] $700,000 and the new owners are offering to provide hundreds of units to the city at hundreds of dollars below Computing [57:22] class day Apartments uh I don't think that we should enclose it for the previous reasons stated and also it's a [57:29] big need for our [57:34] city all right thank [57:41] you no other callers at this time okay one more opportunity for folks in the [57:46] audience to come [57:54] forward um let's just hold on [58:05] well you're going to have a chance to submit something in writing if you want to supplement your your oral testimony [58:11] we're going to leave that open for written submission go ahead [58:17] evening U mayor and council members my name is Steve Brown I live at 5528 [58:23] Halifax Lane my sole purpose in being here tonight is to urge you to support [58:30] this proposed project and move it forward I spoke at the Planning Commission I gave all my reasons there I [58:38] won't repeat all those reasons I you probably have listened to that Planning Commission session I did want to make [58:44] the point that the folks who are going to live here are folks who I think most [58:50] people would feel very comfortable living nearby and I've passed out the sheet [58:56] that had the 80% Ami for families of [59:01] four just to give a sense of what kinds of people would be able to live in this [59:09] particular complex the developer has already pointed out that in fact because they [59:15] have only in general one-bedroom and studio apartments there very it's very [59:21] unlikely there'll be families of four living in this complex but nonetheless I think it is worth [59:29] noting that someone who is earning 80% of the Ami does earn close to [59:36] $100,000 and if there are a single individual that could be a College nursing Professor it could be a physical [59:44] therapist could be a registered nurse all those folks earn money that is below [59:52] that $100,000 level those are the kinds of folks that I think everyone in the dino would feel [59:58] very comfortable happing as members of their community and all the folks that were listed on the chart that the [1:00:04] developer put forward are also people with jobs [1:00:10] who again I think are folks who everybody in this community should feel comfortable [1:00:16] living with so I just want to make sure as people think about who might be in [1:00:22] this residence they recognize that the folks who are living there are folks who [1:00:28] are usually going to full-time jobs or there's someone who's worked [1:00:34] their entire life and is retired and now is living off Social Security and whatever savings they [1:00:41] have I don't think we need to worry as much about the safety issues for this particular proposed building with an 80% [1:00:49] ey Ami uh level of affordability again my purpose is simply [1:00:56] to urge you to support this very creative use of an older building thank [1:01:01] you very much thank you Mr BR anyone [1:01:08] else else wish to [1:01:13] testify um got a few questions to ask but I [1:01:19] think what we should probably consider doing is uh closing the oral testimony on this [1:01:26] portion of the public hearing and and leave it open until noon on November 24th 2024 for further written [1:01:33] submissions uh and then consider the staff request to continue the action to the December 3rd 2024 city council [1:01:40] meeting is there a motion to that effect so move second member Jackson moves [1:01:45] member Pier seconds that we close the uh oral testimony portion of the hearing [1:01:51] today uh and at noon on November 24 2024 we Clos the written submission portion [1:01:56] of the hearing and we continue the action to the December 3rd 2024 city council meeting for further action is [1:02:03] there any further discussion with respect to the motion of stated all those in favor of adoption of the motion stated say I I I opposed carried uh Mr [1:02:12] jutton would you come back up please there's a couple questions I think that popped up that you might be helpful on here while folks are in the audience [1:02:20] well one is uh you know how and I I doubt you're different than any other [1:02:26] landlord that's vetting your potential tenants and what's the process great question and I I I meant to touch on [1:02:32] that earlier um use a standard screening process we're going to look at four criteria one's criminal looking for [1:02:39] violent sexual offender those are pretty much a non-negotiable um uh and you know if you [1:02:46] got 100 parking tickets in the last two years you're probably going to say you got some issues too um so we don't have a hard and fast rule on say misdem [1:02:52] meters but it's more just the the pattern the trend just see in that um [1:02:58] we're going to look at criminal we're going to look at credit worthiness how do you handle your payments a debt payment um and again we don't set a [1:03:05] minimum score we want to see Trends you know is it a problem recently or was it a problem in the past you know what's [1:03:10] what's the size of the problem potentially you're carrying your debt where you know might be affecting your FICO score up and down and then we're [1:03:17] going to look at um rental history if you got a rental history if you're a younger person you're probably not you're come out of college or come out [1:03:22] of high school and going to that trade school you might don't have rental history so that's when you know I was [1:03:27] situation like that we have to look at a parent as a cosigner um who's got some history or can vouch for the history [1:03:33] financially last thing we're looking at is going to be um uh uh your income you know if you're [1:03:41] how do you make your income where's your income Source from is it a W2 or you a self-employed or you a gig worker you [1:03:46] know then we got to use other methods to verify it so we look at those four criteria to come with a lease and [1:03:52] decision that's a standard policy we have across all our rental units it's it's what's your typical uh period of [1:03:59] occupancy by your tenants they move in and how long do they typically stay uh I I'd like to say and and my partner Abe [1:04:06] is is a professional of Markus and mil Chap and apartment Leasing and Sales and whatnot um I think what what's the [1:04:13] industry standard on turnover um industry standard is [1:04:18] anywhere between 40 and 50% is the the average turnover rate per year 40% [1:04:24] turnover per year on average uh standard I [1:04:32] think I own together around 75% oh yeah say uh on the apartments we [1:04:40] own together it's uh it's uh Say closer to 75% res you know retention so 25% [1:04:48] turnover and typically when I see that I look at a lot of buildings and talk to a lot of owners every every day every week [1:04:55] um to me that's a figure that's stuck out and um if I make you know just talk [1:05:00] about Pat as a manager it's it's off charts from what I compareed to other [1:05:06] other managers so you know again typically you see close to half a building turnover every every year our [1:05:13] our tenants are staying 75% of them are staying so that talks to their [1:05:18] perception and their feeling of feeling safe feeling answered feeling the response time if something does come up [1:05:24] there's a leak whatever it is um things get taken care of and um and path shows [1:05:30] up you've got about 25% turnover per year but the 75% stay there typically [1:05:37] how long uh average teny about 3 years okay [1:05:43] okay you know I thought M ba raised an interesting question that uh we [1:05:48] shouldn't ignore just because of climate change and that is that snow removal you know you think [1:05:53] about you talked about the cost the structured parking and and we understand that too and I think she was actually [1:06:01] referencing well gee how about how about not structured parking but covered parking or how are you going to clean the lot with the lot's full of cars [1:06:09] what's the strategy there how do you how do you do that on the snowy Minnesota winter day yeah good question um [1:06:16] typically you got to do you got to do uh uh what they call service plows so get your corridors your drives all plowed [1:06:23] out and then once your car is empty um then clean out the parking stalls so typically do that during the day when [1:06:29] your most of your cars are out now if you got a situation where we got a big dump you know a 12 incher then you've [1:06:35] got to start noticing tenants and say all right half can park on you know come [1:06:40] up come up with a a a coordinated plan where you can encamp parks and you can load the snow out of the spaces and get [1:06:46] the parking lot functional again in a ram typically what you're going to do is you're going to plow off your top deck [1:06:51] and then you've got fences that open and you plow off and you create big Hills through the Cor winter um and then just [1:06:57] kind of side plow your blows on your lower decks as it comes in um but still [1:07:02] the same issue you got a cycle issue with residential whether it's a ramp or or a lot you've got mostly people during [1:07:08] the night and during the day you're going to see fewer cars there so most are clean out Po's going to be during the day the same sort of technique that [1:07:14] uh Mr Lewis mentioned some of these other buildings are using that have only surface parking in that in that neighborhood I [1:07:21] take it in terms of holiday day PLS yeah yeah and then the other question that [1:07:26] Miss Bailey had was um you've got trees on the islands now are they going to be removed or are they going to remain some [1:07:33] of those are ash and are dead so they got to get removed and replaced but any tree that's there and Alive stays and if [1:07:39] it's dead it's getting replaced with a new tree so I think we have like a dozen dead ash trees that L worth carry in the [1:07:46] in the city tree um inventory staff that need to be replaced those are ash trees [1:07:53] you say yeah smaller Ash yeah they've all got pink flags on now they're on our [1:07:58] survey they're all ided on our survey that um um were shown at the original presentation and you also have that in [1:08:04] your packet did I miss any questions that people [1:08:09] asked okay thank you for that so uh folks uh if you want to submit anything [1:08:15] further uh to the council uh you can do it through the city website and [1:08:21] um uh we'll take testimony uh written testimony through uh noon on the 24th of [1:08:27] November and then we'll continue this action to the December 3rd 2024 city council meeting and and make a [1:08:33] determination then so thanks for being with us this evening all right we're going to move on [1:08:39] now to the next matter uh and that is excuse me in the reports and recommendations portion of the [1:08:47] agenda we have to deal with uh something we really haven't wanted to deal with and that is uh cannabis business [1:08:56] um the state has mandated that we have to have a certain number of uh retail [1:09:01] cannabis operations in our city and every other city in the state of Minnesota and we've been on a moratorium [1:09:06] for about the last year and we're trying to make sure that we craft an ordinance that will do the best job of providing [1:09:14] opportunities for people in the Cannabis business but also providing the sort of protections we have with liquor for [1:09:20] example so uh we're going to have a staff presentation on that now and um [1:09:26] and think about uh approving a particular ordinance dealing with cannabis business so M Johnson good [1:09:33] evening mayor good evening Council happy to be here again tonight to talk about cannabis even though most people do not [1:09:38] want to talk about cannabis uh uh specifically we're going to be talking about ordinance amendments uh regarding [1:09:44] registration and Zoning so this is uh mostly the same presentation that was [1:09:49] given at the November 6th public hearing so because of that I will not be going through all of it however there are um [1:09:56] some additional slides that were added based on the questioning that was received during the public hearing uh [1:10:01] that did not receive answers uh during that public hearing on the 6th so with [1:10:07] that let me just scroll through so first to address the question [1:10:14] about including hours of operations within our drafted ordinance during the public hearing on the 6th we had drafted [1:10:20] the ordinance with OC's model language in mind but did not explicitly include that uh model language within the [1:10:26] ordinance draft after reviewing ocm resources staff had decided to recommend [1:10:32] operating hours be more in line with liquor um operating hours after hearing Council feedback on um relating [1:10:39] everything back to tobacco and liquor to keep everything as consistent um in that way we recommend going with 10 to 10 [1:10:46] Monday through Sunday uh liquor had a few um discrepancies on Sunday sale but [1:10:53] far and far and wide that is pretty closely with what they operate on [1:10:58] today and staff has now drafted the ordinance with um this explicitly [1:11:05] stated to address a community or excuse me a resident concern about um the [1:11:11] potential for municipal retail stores for cannabis uh we can uh operate a single uh Municipal cannabis store uh [1:11:19] but the city of Aden is not interested in this Venture at this time uh for three reasons one Minnesota is the first [1:11:26] state to allow this type of municipa uh Municipal cannabis retailer and so the [1:11:32] practicality is largely unexplored in that regard um cannabis retailers are also largely Cash Cash businesses and so [1:11:40] this could be quite a complicated Venture for the city to manage in that way and then lastly opening a municipal [1:11:46] retailer would not count towards our minimum of five um minimum minimum [1:11:51] retailers for cannabis businesses in other words we would not be able to oversee Municipal cannabis in the same [1:11:58] way that we oversee Municipal liquor and then for the last slide [1:12:04] update um I apologize this is different from the posted um presentation um [1:12:10] because I got um updated information from our police department and so um [1:12:15] when we talk about enforcement for um people who may be using cannabis in on [1:12:20] public property um obviously against the law you can only be doing that on a private res in a private residence or on [1:12:27] private property excuse me um ocm has maintained uh a vast majority of [1:12:32] Authority for cannabis enforcement as we talked about during the public hearing on the 6th um and so the city of adina's [1:12:39] enforcement window is enforcement window excuse me is relatively small and um [1:12:44] that petty misdemeanor is about as large of a citation we can uh control for [1:12:50] locally so what that means is if there was a potential call coming into dispatch that is asking for someone to [1:12:58] go out and check on this person who could be um intoxicated and using uh [1:13:03] cannabis on public property police would go to the call location need to observe [1:13:08] who was potentially using cannabis without search as residents can legally possess cannabis and observe that use on [1:13:15] the public property so that is a really hard determination for a lot of um [1:13:22] police to make especially when we think about um calls being uh determined uh by Life [1:13:30] Safety uh as the priority of course um [1:13:35] in addition in addition to that testing is not relied upon in this situation because a resident even if a talk screen [1:13:42] came back positive for uh THC the resident could argue that they were using that cannabis safely in a private [1:13:50] residence or private property before going out to that public property pretty [1:13:55] um so it puts it puts our law enforcement in a pretty difficult situation to [1:14:01] enforce and then again that enforcement would be up to an officer discretion so [1:14:06] it could be a warning could be a citation if they were actually seeing that use take place but it's up for a [1:14:14] little bit of debate you could say here is our recommendation for [1:14:19] tonight November 19th we are asking you to Grant the first reading of both [1:14:25] ordinance amendments and then wave the second readings of both ordinance amendments um we have uh showcased the [1:14:32] Planning Commission uh recommendation again that was showcased at the uh 116 [1:14:38] public hearing and with that I would like to um talk a little bit at you all [1:14:45] again a little bit more to answer some more questions that went un addressed at the public hearing on the [1:14:52] 6th very good um so um and Addison will [1:14:58] uh be addressing three questions too that he um addressed with zoning or [1:15:05] other different issues that came up at the public hearing so first how can [1:15:10] testing for cannabis intoxication for Public Safety be enhanced to be accurate by the time cannabis retailers are [1:15:17] licensed so this is largely again under State um under State jurisdiction and [1:15:23] the state is currently working through through the issues of two different types of cannabis intoxication tests so [1:15:29] earlier this year the office of trans of traffic safety and the Minnesota state [1:15:35] patrol launched a pilot project aimed at answering questions of how will Law Enforcement test for cannabis [1:15:41] intoxication of drivers drug recognition evaluators commonly referred to as Dres [1:15:47] from law enforcement agencies Statewide were trained to use two different oral [1:15:52] flu roadside testing instruments the devices the sotoxa oral fluid mobile [1:15:59] analyzer and the Drager drug test 5000 detect the presence of cannabis or other [1:16:05] drugs in a driver they are also training Dres on the two devices to compare how [1:16:10] the two work in practice and the goal of the study overall is to provide uh State lawmakers with solid information so they [1:16:16] can move forward with making sound decisions on um the policy they want to bring [1:16:22] forward can the city engage in municipal cannabis as we just went over yes we can [1:16:28] however the city of Adina is not looking at that Venture at this time um but if a city were to uh submit all of the [1:16:35] required application information to the office of cannabis management meet minimum requirements for a ler and pay [1:16:41] the applicable application and license fees the city could operate [1:16:49] one what is a temporary cannabis event and what conditions can we set for these [1:16:54] events so temporary cannabis events definitions remain to be unseen uh a bit [1:17:00] of an unknown on how these events will take place ocm is still developing some of the ru making and guidance as they um [1:17:08] talk about these types of events um however a jurisdiction May establish standards for temp temporary cannabis [1:17:14] events which the event organizer must meet including restricting or prohibiting any on-site consumption if [1:17:21] there are public health safety or welfare concerns associated with um a [1:17:26] proposed cannabis event a jurisdiction would presumably be athor authorized to deny approval of that event and within [1:17:33] our ordinance we can explicitly um list language that says if it meets our city [1:17:40] code it will be granted if it does not meet city code it will not be granted and here are the reasons why and we will [1:17:46] give that to the applicant um in addition we will um also have the option [1:17:53] of saying that temporary cannabis events can only be held at a certain place within the city of [1:17:58] Adina and also temporary cannabis events could be um written in the ordinance [1:18:05] language to be held between a certain hour um of time or a certain window in the day so it couldn't just be a 24hour [1:18:14] temporary cannabis poooa I guess um these events at the end of the day as uh [1:18:21] assistant city manager Len lens pointed out at the public hearing um these events will still require a license from [1:18:28] the office of cannabis management before coming to the city asking for um a local [1:18:34] registration so next um how do we ensure or enforce safety with these cannabis [1:18:41] products within the community what can we do to ensure an Engaged community that uses these products safely so first [1:18:48] uh the Cannabis and substance used prevention Grant which amounted to be around um $100,000 I just got that uh [1:18:55] number from public health um will allow the city of adina's Public Health division to formulate some kind of [1:19:02] educational awareness program to help ensure safe use of cannabis within the community in Greater region the program [1:19:08] would be structured to focus using cannabis in a guided Safe Way for those [1:19:13] interested and this um Grant opportunity currently is slated to be one time [1:19:19] however there's a lot of conversation um about a future hope that it is annual [1:19:24] and renewed each year um police will be involved in the enforcement and response of use on [1:19:31] public property again we talked about that petty misdemeanor and compliance checks will offer important [1:19:36] opportunities for public health divisions to ensure cannabis businesses are operating in the community as [1:19:41] intended through ocms licensing rul making and enforcement guidelines lastly [1:19:46] ensuring Community safety as recreational Cannabis finds more resolution for the unknowns that they [1:19:52] see today is going to be a really big learning curve for all municipalities in the state and the State Office of [1:19:58] cannabis management that will continue to require close collaboration with all [1:20:03] organizations can you explain some of the regulations that address safety concerns other than the potential use of [1:20:10] buffers so local governments May suspend the local retail registration of a [1:20:15] cannabis or hemp business if that business is determined to not be operating in compliance with the local [1:20:22] ordinance oper authorized excuse me by chapter 342 or if the operation of the business [1:20:28] poses an immediate threat to health and safety of the public the local government must [1:20:34] immediately notify the office of cannabis management of the suspension if it if it does occur and the office of [1:20:41] cannabis management will review the suspension and may reinstate or take enforcement action of that [1:20:48] registration per state law the office of cannabis management will establish an expedited complaint process during the [1:20:55] ru making process to receive review read and respond to complaints made by a [1:21:01] local unit of government about a cannabis business upon promulgation of these [1:21:07] rules um the office of cannabis management will publish the complaint process at a minimum the expedited [1:21:14] complaint process shall require the office to provide an initial response to the complaint within 7 days and perform [1:21:21] any necessary inspections within 30 days with in this process if a local government notifies the office of [1:21:27] cannabis management that a cannabis business poses an immediate threat to the health or safety of the public the [1:21:33] office must respond within one business day lastly to answer this question Jen Z [1:21:41] of ad's uh police department has been appointed by the governor as an expert in Municipal law enforcement with [1:21:46] Advanced Training and impairment detection and evaluation to be part of the Cannabis advisory Council which [1:21:52] reviews National cannabis policy examines the effectiveness of State cannabis policy reviews developments in [1:21:59] the Cannabis industry and hemp consumer industry reviews developments in the study of cannabis flow and other items [1:22:05] takes public testimony and at the end of the day makes recommendations to the office of cannabis [1:22:11] management the possibility of smoking cannabis on sidewalks in public places again we address this a little bit in [1:22:17] our updated presentation so I will move on to the [1:22:22] next one which was again addressed in our updated presentation when are we including the [1:22:28] hours of operation in the drafted ordinance yes we are but we are no longer defaulting to the office of cannabis Management's model language we [1:22:35] are instead going with that Monday through excuse me Monday through Sunday 10 to 10 I'm talking too fast [1:22:41] sorry and with that I would ask Addison Lewis to come up and address a few other questions he we want to thank you for [1:22:48] your diligence taking notes here a couple weeks ago yep we got a few more here too um so there was a question [1:22:55] about what is considered a school and what is considered a daycare where would a preschool or a monory school fall [1:23:00] under with respect to the buffers so uh the ordinance that you have in your packet um for the proposed ordinance uh [1:23:07] states that the buffer for schools uh would just apply to K through 12 school so it wouldn't include preschools um [1:23:13] however preschools are licensed by the Minnesota Department of Human Services the same as daycares so they would be [1:23:18] subject to the buffer uh for a daycare if a monory school provided education at the kindergarten level or above then it [1:23:25] would be subject to that buffer for schools uh there was a question about what happens if a daycare opens within [1:23:30] the minimum buffer distance of a cannabis business um so the buffer would prevent a new cannabis business from [1:23:36] opening within the buffer distance of an existing daycare but not the other way around um so if a daycare opened within [1:23:42] the buffer of an existing cannabis business the Cannabis business could continue um but if it ever went away for [1:23:49] more than a year a new cannabis business could not open in that same place if the daycare was still there [1:23:55] um and then lastly there was a question about uh warning labels on products um [1:24:00] so generally all cannabis products have to include um certain information on the label so it in would include a universal [1:24:08] symbol um established by the office of cannabis management indicating that the package or container contains cannabis [1:24:15] uh we need a verification that the product was tested in accordance with state law and meets the applicable standards it needs to include a [1:24:21] statement about keep the product Out Of Reach of children uh and then lastly they need to also [1:24:28] provide customers with information about um impairment effects and health risks a statement about not operating a motor [1:24:34] vehicle or heavy machinery while Under the Influence um as well as resources to answer questions about Canabis products [1:24:39] and substance use disorder uh treatment options so with that I think that was all the questions we heard at the last [1:24:45] meeting that we wanted to follow up on um again the request tonight is a motion to approve the first reading and wave [1:24:51] second readings uh but we'd have uh be happy to answer any other the questions you [1:24:57] have remember Jackson so the draft that we have in our [1:25:04] packet still has the buffer for the parks and the um [1:25:11] daycare um as I'm looking at this I found the testimony about um the buffer [1:25:19] for the daycare persuasive um I also got some additional um um Community feedback on that [1:25:26] afterwards um so I wish that I had an updated um [1:25:32] ordinance or is this an ordinance correct yeah correct um to look at um [1:25:38] but I would argue um that I would like to keep the buffer for a state licensed [1:25:48] daycare for clarification purposes on the Canada zoning buffer Maps is it not [1:25:54] there um those Maps should be thought I saw daycare on the on the buffer map yep so [1:25:59] the current ordinance includes a 500 foot buffer from all of them so the buffers are included in the ordinance [1:26:05] just for your consideration if you want to get rid of those it's easier for you to tell us as part of your motion to just strike that rather than if we [1:26:12] hadn't included them to go in and add that because there is some kind of specific wording in there so just for transparency uh we didn't want to be [1:26:17] kind of making up new wording on the fly if you wanted to add a buffer it's much [1:26:22] easier for you as part of your tion to just tell us you know we want to adopt the ordinance as proposed but with the [1:26:29] buffer for schools removed or whatever you decide you were saying that you favor the buffer I favor the buffer for [1:26:36] daycare I thought the attractions in park that the point that it was very difficult to figure out how to measure [1:26:41] that was a was a point well taken but I think um keeping the 500 foot buffer um for daycares I'm in favor of [1:26:56] call him a ragu I I think you wanted a comment yeah I did I think I think I was [1:27:02] just going to kind of reiterate that what I understood is that [1:27:10] for um the standards for cannabis retailer what is section is this but [1:27:16] it's um part D where it talks about um the 500 ft from any attraction within a [1:27:22] public park it sounds like that would be very hard to manage so what I'm hearing is it's staff recommendation that we [1:27:28] likely strike that when we're making a motion to approve this ordinance if that's what happens um and I would agree [1:27:35] with that and my recommendation also based on the the testimony and discussions that we've had would be to also maintain what's in here today [1:27:43] regarding the dayc carees so plus one to what uh council member Jackson said so [1:27:50] with respect to what's on the screen in front of us you would the two of you are [1:27:55] are suggesting that we leave schools daycares and attract and residential treatment facilities in with proposed [1:28:03] buffers but delete attractions and Parks is that [1:28:08] correct um I'll just clarify real quick from a staff perspective that our recommendation we don't was not a strong [1:28:14] one regarding the buffers but we were just proposing it as is with buffers for everything but that element is is a fair [1:28:22] consideration because it will be hard to administer so um there isn't a staff [1:28:28] recommendation to necessarily do that to take it out um but we are okay with that [1:28:33] because it will be difficult member [1:28:39] rer I just wanted to recommend that we let assistant city manager lent comment [1:28:48] on okay a member rer down juggling in the park is an attraction [1:28:54] and we want to make sure she yeah you know it is interesting though because if [1:29:00] it's a physical attraction and I was thinking about this because you could say um you know our Park pavilion would [1:29:08] constitute places where you know people gather you know and there is a logic if [1:29:13] there's a a physical and you know aspect to it so the buffer and the maps already [1:29:20] take that into account I believe true um with the parks so I I'm I'm kind of [1:29:27] tempted to just leave it in um because it's easier if there is a problem down the road we could come back and we could [1:29:33] revise it um so just kind of thinking along that way but I don't really have any strong feelings on this [1:29:43] one uh member Pierce any thoughts on on in or out with respect to um attractions [1:29:51] and Parks uh when we have a supportive map that the finds them um I am in [1:29:58] support of not including them but my reason behind it is I really think [1:30:06] buffers to a certain extent are fairly arbitrary and so I I I actually think we [1:30:13] had feedback from a resident who was for the daycare so sounded you know good to [1:30:20] me so let's include daycares um but I think it's hard to manage in Parks I [1:30:26] don't know that we get any value out of having it there um and I think it's [1:30:32] fairly arbitrary so I would I'd be supportive and I understand you're [1:30:38] saying staff is not this six of one half dozen of the other but the point that you are continually making is that it's [1:30:45] difficult to manage it and so with that guidance from City staff I wouldn't [1:30:52] exclude that but keep daycare I think from Miss Johnson's presentation was it clear that if you [1:30:59] got a resident complaint about some St were down in the park and sitting on a park bench and they saw someone smoking [1:31:06] in the Park which is a public place and didn't stop smoking they could they [1:31:12] could call the police and the and the police could come to the park correct regardless whether there was an [1:31:17] attraction in the park or not they can still come to the park because it's a public place yep and just to be clear the buffers are from the location of the [1:31:22] business so would be from the the property line of the business but yes you're correct you cannot smoke in a [1:31:29] public place okay I was heading a little bit mentally the direction that member rer [1:31:35] was heading but I I'd be you know I was thinking leave it all in until we see how it operates [1:31:42] and then back off but I can also see the counterargument of getting rid of attractions in Parks right now and leave [1:31:49] it leave the buffers uh applying to schools dayc carees and residential treatment facilities only revised the [1:31:57] maps that where we're headed so what do you need for let me [1:32:05] see here what you need for a motion um it's a single motion it's a motion to [1:32:12] approve ordinance 20248 amending city code chapter 36 zoning Canabis business [1:32:18] and ordinance 20249 amending city code chapter 12 candidate business registration [1:32:24] uh Grant first reading you want to wave second reading or just grant first reading that's up to you I guess um if [1:32:30] you're comfortable if I mean if you're comfortable with the ordinances that are in the packet um I guess unless you want [1:32:36] to direct us to make changes and bring it back at the next meeting we could do that but if you're comfortable with the ordinances then we would suggest just [1:32:42] that first reading and wave second reading either way it seems to me like we could deal with the buffer issue right now either Grant first or you know [1:32:50] tell you to fix it and come back to us and just grant first reading or we could fix it right now as part of the overall [1:32:57] motioning and the wave second reading what I think I I'm hearing you [1:33:02] saying is that you want to leave it as it is right now with a 500 foot buffer from all four of those uses is that [1:33:08] right no take out the attractive Park take it out from Parks okay got [1:33:16] it so the motion would be to approve ordinance 20248 amending city code [1:33:21] chapter 36 Z zoning can business is that language which which part of the code is [1:33:27] that language in dealing with buffer yeah so it's just under the the special requirements for you know in the PCD [1:33:34] District it's like provision D I mean we could just strike 2409 or [1:33:40] 248 which resolution is it in yeah ordinance 20 2408 okay yep [1:33:47] that's in the zoning ordinance the motion would be to approve ordinance 20248 uh but limit the buffer zones to [1:33:53] the uh three delineated categories by the [1:33:59] council uh which would amend city code chapter 36 zoning cannabis business and [1:34:05] then adopt ordinance 20249 amending city code chapter 12 Canabis business [1:34:12] registration uh in wave second reading is there a motion to that effect [1:34:17] a moved second member U moves member Pier seconds the adoption of the motion is [1:34:24] stated any further discussion with respect to the motion is stated all those in favor of granting the motion is [1:34:30] stated say I I I opposed carried the motion is adopted thank you thanks for [1:34:36] all your hard work on this this was uh uh it was an important year to have to [1:34:42] be able to figure out what we wanted to do to comply with the state [1:34:50] law all right well the next matter we have in front of us this is always an interesting situation when we've sold [1:34:57] some bonds and I saw Nick anood our public uh [1:35:02] Finance adviser from Ellers come into the room and he's been busy today selling a couple of uh uh bonds uh for [1:35:11] us and the first one that he's going to talk about is embodied in resolution 2024 100 [1:35:18] and 100 and it uh involves the potential awarding of the sale of $ 29,5 35,000 [1:35:26] wor the general obligation bonds uh for a couple of different P purposes and [1:35:33] patau our finance director is here to start the conversation and tell us why we needed to go out into the markets to [1:35:39] borrow some money and uh I'll let you handle that and I'll turn it to you now our finance director ptau good evening [1:35:47] um not as quite interesting as cannabis but what I have in front of you is I [1:35:52] know that there's two edes agenda item the first one is for the CIP and sales tax Bond and then the second item is for [1:35:59] the 2024 c hiia bond uh we will do both in the same presentation so um you guys [1:36:06] don't have we don't have to flip back between two a very similar presentation so with that being said I have with us [1:36:13] here tonight like uh mayor hubin said uh Nick anhut from ERS who will give you [1:36:19] what is our bond uh sale results for improvements that we will be doing as well as the hiia bond so with us [1:36:27] Nick all right thank you director to and welcome Mr anut thank you mayor [1:36:35] members of the council Nick anut with Ellers and Associates financials advisers to the city of Vina and as [1:36:41] mentioned we have uh two uh Bond sales that were held on behalf of the city this morning and I will go over both in [1:36:48] Tandem and then allow you to answer or ask your questions and take action on two different resolutions awarding each [1:36:56] so 2024b were bonds issued for a variety of City infrastructure projects about [1:37:02] $29 Million worth of funding um 17 million to convert to permanent [1:37:08] financing uh series of bonds that were issued in 22 to finance the acquisition of the [1:37:14] Fire Station 2 site as well as provide some funding for the design and site [1:37:20] improvements uh for that project uh those were temporary bonds uh that we're converting to a long-term permanent [1:37:26] financing layering it on top of the uh financing that the city executed this summer for construction of that project [1:37:33] um that will be repaid from a dedicated property tax levy that you have adopted within your preliminary Levy uh for [1:37:39] collection starting next year and then the other component was 12 million in funding for the sales tax projects that [1:37:46] were approved by the voters uh through a referendum of roughly $71 Million worth [1:37:52] of projects that were approved d uh through that measure we're providing a funding for 12 million in this tranch of [1:37:59] bonds and they will be repaid exclusively from sales tax revenues that are being collected as we speak uh the [1:38:06] 2024 C uh is a taxable financing that's why it's separate from the other two it [1:38:12] is uh General obligation bonds but because it provides a benefit to directly to um specific Property Owners [1:38:19] within the community uh the members of the Ido West condominium Association uh [1:38:24] that financing does need to be taxable it doesn't qualify for tax exemption um but it still will benefit from the [1:38:31] city's uh full faith and credit backing as a general obligation Bond uh those improvements uh were uh authorized by [1:38:39] the council through passage of an ordinance and establishing a housing Improvement area uh back in 2023 uh they [1:38:46] are complete with their construction for their projects and uh part of the agreement with the condom Association is [1:38:53] that that the city uh would uh reimburse them for those costs after the fact uh [1:38:59] by issuing this bond to take out the construction loan that they have incurred uh for that project uh and that [1:39:06] will happen uh pending your award of this uh transaction this evening uh those bonds will be repaid from a [1:39:13] housing Improvement area fees those fees are collected directly from those property owners and are a line item on [1:39:21] their property tax bill um and so those will be paid over the course of the next 20 years to uh provide the debt service [1:39:27] for this Bond so the council authorized both of these uh sales and its October 15th [1:39:34] meeting in the time in between that uh we've been working with staff to verify the funding amounts uh put together the [1:39:41] preliminary Bond repayment structures the offering documents and then we also received positive affirmations from both [1:39:48] S&P and Moody who provide their credit evaluations for the city of Edina and [1:39:53] your financing and I'm happy to say that they both affirmed the city's uh top-notch rating the triaa uh ratings [1:40:00] that both of them apply uh to the city um these are the highest possible ratings that are assigned both to [1:40:06] municipalities like cities counties even the states Sovereign Nations and even corporate and their financings uh [1:40:13] receive credit rating and this is the top of that uh Eton uh the city's [1:40:18] maintained these ratings for over 20 years and we expect that to continue um [1:40:23] they do evaluate not only the current Financial Health of the city but we also talk with them in these evaluations [1:40:30] about uh next steps future considerations the next year's budget future debt plans and even through those [1:40:36] discussions uh they saw fit to affirm uh that high rating on uh these financings [1:40:43] so good news on that front and definitely led to the results that we see today uh we received 13 bids on the [1:40:50] 24b bonds it was a sizable trans transaction it attracted a lot of attention across the market just for [1:40:57] context you know in in years past it's not unheard of for us to get six maybe seven bids uh we did receive 11 bids on [1:41:05] the bonds that were issued earlier this year so we've added two more potential biders to the mix here um and as you'll [1:41:12] see a very tight spread between uh the top and um even closer to the bottom uh [1:41:18] UBS Financial Services was the winning bid at a 3.76 indicated rate so that's the the [1:41:24] basically the rate that would um take into account all 30 years of repayment for this Bond um jany Montgomery Scott [1:41:33] less than a basis point difference uh on the cover bid um the top bid came from a [1:41:39] Key Bank uh Capital at 4.1% so a a 34% [1:41:44] spread uh percentage point spread uh between the low bid and the high uh not [1:41:51] as much of a reception on the taxable financing um but we did receive three [1:41:57] bids um not unexpected to receive less interest um from the marketplace on that [1:42:03] um due in part because it was taxable but also it was a much smaller size and [1:42:08] uh when you have a taxable financing that's spread out over 20 years it it's not exactly as enticing um to that [1:42:14] specific segment of the market but we did receive uh good bids and um [1:42:19] certainly a competitive result uh be came in with the low bid at [1:42:24] 5.01% again the reason difference in rates it's a taxable financing and not benefiting from the tax exemption so [1:42:31] that is to be expected that there would be a higher rate applied to this transaction um again the spread between [1:42:37] the the low Bid And The High um you know a tenth of a percentage [1:42:43] point with these results the resolutions that have been prepared for you will uh lock in the uh the payment terms at the [1:42:51] pricing that are being offered as well as the amounts that we're borrowing so the final size on the 24b issue will be [1:42:58] 27,7 120,000 that will provide the same amount of funding uh for this but it [1:43:03] reflects the uh reoffering premium that was included in the bid as well as the final uh transactional costs uh cost of [1:43:10] issuance and the uh underwriter's discount that was uh bid uh for that Bond purchase uh the final 30-year [1:43:18] calculated true Ines cost when we when we let the dust settle is 3.78% % um [1:43:24] that's actually fairly comparable to the financing that we did earlier this summer um so a good result again in tune [1:43:31] I think with where we're at in the market right now we have seen rates kind of climb a little bit over the course of the last month but they're fairly steady [1:43:38] on the tax exempt side and this is certainly um an expected result um 24c [1:43:45] uh will'll resize the principle just slightly to 3,65 th000 uh this will provide about [1:43:52] 2.98 million to pay off the construction loan and the hiia program costs that [1:43:57] have been incurred for that project um and is itself as well a good result um [1:44:02] and the final 20-year calculated true interest cost pretty much identical to the bid at [1:44:09] 5.15% for that so for the council's consideration two different um resolutions again [1:44:16] awarding the sale of the bonds based on the terms proposed from the lowest biders UBS for the uh 24b series the [1:44:24] larger transaction and then be and their Syndicate that they represent a variety of different underwriter Underwriters [1:44:30] that are participating in that bid um for the 24c bond issue uh those [1:44:37] resolutions will uh have been vetted uh with your bond attorneys at dorsy and Whitney they have been updated from the [1:44:44] packets to uh reflect the actual bids and the pricing that have been proposed um and they'll lock in the proposed [1:44:50] rates and amounts and we anticipate that will close on these transactions uh pending your approval on December 12th [1:44:57] of this year so be happy to stand for any questions from the council but uh we recommend that you take action to [1:45:03] approve these positive results thank you thank you Mr anut let me see if any of our colleagues have questions for you at [1:45:10] this point in time thorough presentation thank you um our finance director have anything supplemental that she wants to [1:45:17] add no no not at this point in time okay questions for council members all right [1:45:23] um so you want to handle these in two separate motions I guess so the first one would be um and and good work by the [1:45:30] way and apparently it came out about where you thought it would in terms of the the borrowing on the on the larger [1:45:37] obligation uh so let's go to the motion to approve resolution 20241 100 awarding [1:45:43] the sale of 29,5 35,000 in general obligation bond series [1:45:48] 2024b to U UBS Financial is there a motion to that effect so moved second [1:45:57] uh member U moves and member Pierce seconds uh the approval of resolution [1:46:02] 20241 100 awarding the sale of 29,5 35,000 in general obligation bond series [1:46:10] 204-b to UBS Financial any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the resolution 20241 100 is [1:46:18] stated say I I I opposed carried uh next is there a motion to approve resolution [1:46:24] 2024 101 awarding the sale of $3,220 th000 in general obligation housing [1:46:31] Improvement bond series 2024 C to be Syndicate so moves second member egda [1:46:38] moves member Pierce seconds the uh adoption of resolution [1:46:44] 2024-25 120,000 in general obligation housing Improvement bonds series 2024 C to Beed [1:46:51] Syndicate any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the motion stated say I I I oppos carried [1:46:58] that motion is also adopted thank you for your good work uh both our finance director and her key team as well as uh [1:47:05] our Public Finance people thank you and you'll be sticking around Mr an HUD I think we got some things coming up that [1:47:11] we may need your expert assistance on so uh the next thing we're going to do in this portion of the agenda is discuss [1:47:18] something that we talked about uh and acted on in the uh when we sat as the HRA last week uh our economic [1:47:26] development manager bill nindorf has this matter uh and this is the uh [1:47:31] potential approval of resolution 202478 which would establish the 72nd in [1:47:37] France number three tax Inc increment financing District relative to The [1:47:42] Enclave companies and lifestyle communities project uh on what we call the old Macy's hom store site and I'm [1:47:50] going to turn now to manager NE andorf to uh get us started on this [1:48:00] conversation yes thank you good evening so there's two items tonight a resolution [1:48:22] integrated they go together um so I will uh walk through my presentation fastly [1:48:28] but thoroughly um this uh evening is our fifth uh conversation about this project [1:48:34] in the last several months so there's not a lot of in fact there's no new information uh we've discussed this Prim [1:48:40] predominantly at the HRA board meetings where we' got into some of the nitty-gritty the financing some of the [1:48:45] benefits and some of the terms so I'll run through that uh this evening uh everything's in the packet but I'm not [1:48:50] going to go through it all because there's just fire too much but rest assured if there's any questions I'm happy to answer the questions and of [1:48:58] course we have our full compliment of team members here tonight uh I've been assisted by Jay lingren at dorsy and [1:49:03] Whitney focusing on the legal parameters and Nick anut at Ellers Associates looking at the financing uh uh [1:49:10] provisions of this agreement and also Stephanie hackinson my staff colleague was integ to integrate all the uh uh [1:49:16] affordable housing terms and requirements uh and then also our developers uh the folks at Enclave [1:49:22] Patrick Brahma at Enclave companies uh Ben louser at lifestyle communities so [1:49:28] uh we're all ready for questions whenever you are but I'll jump into the uh into the presentation so the first [1:49:34] item is is this resolution uh this has this pertains to the adoption of a tiff [1:49:39] financing plan uh this plan was first prepared back in August uh it was [1:49:45] distributed to the school the County held a public hearing went to the Planning Commission uh essentially this [1:49:51] document establishes documents the butt four test and it reaches the conclusions [1:49:57] several conclusions actually number one that the site qualifies to even be considered for tax increment financing [1:50:03] it then establishes boundaries of this District time time limits and also a budget cap um and it's all based on the [1:50:11] butt for test the findings that we've reached and and we recommend you uh support are that but for the use of tax [1:50:18] increment financing we don't believe the approved project will be able to secure the debt and Equity needed to be built [1:50:25] and also but for the use of Tiff we don't believe that the economic benefits and the physical sight improvements that [1:50:31] benefit the community will be able to be realized as you go through your [1:50:36] consideration a couple questions to keep in mind uh a lot of it comes down to public benefit and whether or not this [1:50:43] proposal and this agreement um uh creates a tiff District that enables a [1:50:48] suitable amount of public benefit now that's not a state law that's the Adina test state law says we can use Tiff as [1:50:55] long as we follow the state parameters but in a Dina we also apply the public benefit test is there enough public [1:51:01] benefit that's delivered at the developer's expense not at our initial expense and then finally is the use of [1:51:08] tax increment financing reasonable to achieve this uh Redevelopment project uh [1:51:13] it's gone through the procedures through the Planning Commission and city council uh for more than a year and a half now [1:51:20] uh before the before a proposal was was reached that abided by the city standards our guidelines our policies [1:51:26] the state laws as well so those are a couple of the key questions to keep in mind and the process is quite extensive [1:51:33] it's the same process it has not changed uh it's dictated by state law number one we have to create that Tiff plan that [1:51:39] Tiff financing plan uh the first stop with that uh draft plan is to our school [1:51:44] district and to the county because they're also Partners in this in this Planning Commission we held a public [1:51:50] hearing went to the HRA board tonight's the final step uh and that's uh seeking your approval uh of this Tiff plan the [1:51:58] second step is actually um uh allocating and directing how those dollars that are [1:52:04] collected in the future will be spent and that's where we have three Redevelopment proposals with you tonight [1:52:10] uh one for each of the quadrants one uh I guess not quadrants one one for each [1:52:15] of the three pieces of of the site um and that's a separate action uh that was approved by the HRA board last week but [1:52:23] conditioned on this final final conversation and final [1:52:28] considerations uh so Dina has used Tiff for going on 50 years starting I believe in [1:52:33] 1974 uh currently there's 11 Tiff districts that are still in existence uh [1:52:39] in the city um those are shown on the map here and in the bar chart uh that [1:52:44] shows the degree to which Tiff is used in a Dina as compared to our peers elsewhere in hennipin county and this is [1:52:51] one compar comparison where I Like A din being on the low end of the range uh we tend to use Tiff a lot less than our [1:52:58] than our peers and colleagues uh currently there's about 1.6% of our tax [1:53:03] base is involved in a tax increment District while that number changes year to year we're consistently as a [1:53:09] community towards the lower end of that range the site we're talking about we've [1:53:15] we've uh we've seen it before it's the existing Macy's Furniture Store built in the late 1970s uh an 8 acre parcel with [1:53:23] a uh uh single tenant building or single tenant user and a whole lot of asphalt [1:53:28] parking lot this is an overview of the approved plan that's that's worked its way [1:53:33] through the city council and the Planning Commission taking that large site splitting it up into four building [1:53:39] pads the Northwest the southwest and then the two buildings on the East are [1:53:44] grouped together from a construction perspective and a lot of this is public [1:53:49] benefit and that's really when when we negotiate as staff when we negotiate these Tiff agreements we try to to drive [1:53:56] as much public benefit as possible um and when we measure a public [1:54:02] benefit we look at our codes our standards and our policies so the greater Southdale plan the affordable [1:54:07] housing policy our Sustainable Building policies our comprehensive plan are are [1:54:13] all factored into this couple renderings of the site in case you have [1:54:18] questions and I wanted to to just make a mention about this rendering so this is [1:54:24] the most recent concept sketch of a potential pedestrian Crossing that gets [1:54:29] people across France Avenue without having to dodge the eight Lanes of traffic now this is still a concept but [1:54:36] it's been around for going on 20 years um with the with this Tiff plan we've [1:54:41] structured both the Tiff District as well as the Tiff agreements with the developers to enable financing for this [1:54:49] type of improvement if you as a body direct us to go in that direction and [1:54:54] we're not there yet we're not seeking final approvals but as we've negotiated this we made sure that the door is open [1:55:00] if we want to do something like this in the future the Tiff plan itself uh uh is [1:55:07] shown here the geographic boundaries it's limited to just the site the 7235 France Avenue site it of course does [1:55:14] include the adjacent rights of way on France Avenue it's a 25-year term that begins in 2028 and would then expire 25 [1:55:22] years later when we use Tiff in AA part of what makes it such a compelling [1:55:27] option to consider is the dramatic increase in that tax base so right now [1:55:33] the tax capacity of the existing site is about [1:55:38] $276,000 when this project is completed based on our current estimates it's expected to have a tax capacity at [1:55:45] nearly 4 million or a a growth factor of 14x um not just double not just triple [1:55:52] but 14 that's where it's it's um from an economic development perspective it just makes a whole lot of sense to grow and [1:55:58] strengthen the tax base I mentioned that the Tiff plan um sets up um a spending cap so we've [1:56:06] estimated that over the 25y year life of this district will collect nearly $81 [1:56:12] million now that's the incremental tax that doesn't include the base taxes that goes to the city the school the state [1:56:19] the county and everybody else um and this Tiff plan also identifies generally [1:56:24] how we think those funds will be used uh and that that's shown on the chart here on the right the the vast majority of the [1:56:31] expenses go towards construction costs either by the developer or potentially by the city if we choose to do a public [1:56:38] Improvement but also keep in mind that just as uh Mr an Hut described a few [1:56:43] minutes ago we're borrowing money either the city's borrowing money or the developers borrowing money and the bank [1:56:49] demands interest so certainly a lot of the tax increment monies will be directed towards interest interest [1:56:56] payments on whatever type of debt is issued one other interesting revenue [1:57:01] revenue Source from this project is not Tiff um so a project of this scale [1:57:07] creates just under $10 million in fees paid by the developer to the city so [1:57:15] that's about $3 million in park fees that are paid upfront when they pull a pull a building permit that can be used [1:57:22] anywhere in the city where the park Department chooses to make that investment um also um just under $4 [1:57:29] million in water fees and Sewer fees to keep the pipes running all throughout the city in good [1:57:34] shape we've also negotiated in this particular deal um an agreement where [1:57:40] the developer will make annual payments in the range of $80,000 to support the ongoing [1:57:45] operations at Centennial Lakes Park um so just a reminder that with while those [1:57:51] are not Tiff dollars without Tiff the city won't recognize those [1:57:57] dollars we also held a public hearing um uh several weeks ago we held the hearing [1:58:03] uh took input in person online and through the internet as we always do uh quick summary there I've got the full [1:58:10] digest of all the comments that are in your packet but a few main things to note um number one is uh over the last [1:58:17] couple months um we've not received any comments or any concerns from hennipin County that had that no questions about the use [1:58:24] of Tiff on this location we had no comments or concerns raised by the Richfield School District who also [1:58:30] governs this area um the comments we did receive during from the general public [1:58:36] for the most part were just concerned or outright opposed to the use of Tiff as a philosophical uh perspective um there [1:58:43] were some concerns that they would prefer more green space maybe the place could maybe the site could become a park [1:58:49] um uh and a few comments that did that did weigh in saying that they do support [1:58:54] the use of Tiff if it's used to achieve bold outcomes and I thought that was a really interesting way to phrase it and [1:59:01] that's something I think Adina has demonstrated its its capabilities uh over [1:59:07] history so for the Tiff plan our our findings are summarized here um in conclusion we do not think it's uh [1:59:14] reasonably expected that the proposed development with all the public benefits [1:59:19] um would be able to be constructed without the use of Tiff that that's our finding for that first [1:59:26] resolution and then in regards to the actual agreements with the developers um and that's the whole [1:59:32] reason that we're considering Tiff so the developers are proposing to invest over $300 million in the site between [1:59:40] acquiring it clearing the site all the cleanup and then building the four new [1:59:46] buildings it's been a it's been a a a rigorous review process going on uh 18 [1:59:52] 19 months at this point um and the developer uh uh has shared their [1:59:59] financials with us on several occasions we've worked uh and relied heavily on the folks at Ellers to scrutinize their [2:00:05] budgets to look at those costs and confirm that they indeed do have a financing Gap and when we look at the [2:00:12] overall project we find that the financial gap is just under $23 million [2:00:18] that's a lot of money but this is a massive project and tax increment financing can be used to fill that Gap [2:00:24] so that the developers can secure that private sector debt and Equity to actually build [2:00:30] this in the packet there's um the summary of all the different public benefits I'm going to just focus on a [2:00:36] couple slides here and that's the public space this is something we really see as transformational between uh retaining [2:00:43] the existing sidewalks and bike trails but also expanding with New Roads through the site that was one of the [2:00:50] goals of the Southdale plan is to provide options to France Avenue because right now everyone has to go to France [2:00:55] that's the only option so we're the goal is to incrementally build options on these on some of these other sites so [2:01:03] the developer would grant us easements at no cost to use that space both the roads sidewalks and all the plazas the [2:01:10] biggest benefit from the city perspective is the general public gets to enjoy the space and it's the [2:01:16] developer's responsibility to pave it to sweep it to shovel it and keep the grass [2:01:21] looking green so um uh that that's a nice outcome there we've also structured the [2:01:27] agreements that uh uh that if the city does choose to move forward with this pedestrian Crossing there's additional [2:01:35] rights that that the developer would Grant to the city to build and operate an underpass or potentially an overpass [2:01:41] if we choose that route um in the center of the site and we've also structure the deal the the reimbursement to the [2:01:48] developer so that 25% of all the future increment doesn't go to the developer but it stays [2:01:54] with the city to fund these public improvements so that that runs true in [2:01:59] each of the agreements affordable housing has been part of this conversation from day one and 10% of the [2:02:06] units whether they're the rental apartments or whether the for whether they're the for sale co-ops would be um [2:02:12] priced and sold to families and households um at that designated income level [2:02:18] um and then also public parking is one other big benefit that um each of the each of the buildings would have the [2:02:24] first floor available for public parking it would be signed appropriately the general idea is that again if we can if [2:02:32] we can allow and create an opportunity for someone to park once and go to the restaurant and go to the park or go to [2:02:40] the grocery store and go to the restaurant without having to jump back on France Avenue and clog up the street [2:02:46] so um the city would be able to um have that public parking easement at no cost while the maintenance responsibility [2:02:52] rests with the developer as an H you also asked us to [2:02:59] look at other options why do we have to use Tiff what other options are are out there so on three separate occasions we [2:03:05] looked at looked at different levels of specificity as far as what some of those real options are um the each time we've [2:03:13] looked at it the outcome is generally the same and that is uh in the do nothing scenario there's a little bit of [2:03:20] tax based growth just with inflation in other scenarios more limited in scale [2:03:25] commercial generally um we can almost double the tax base we also looked at a [2:03:31] scenario a few weeks ago where the developer gave us um renderings of a of a potential alternative the challenge [2:03:37] with that alternative is that they would need a waiver from our housing policy from our sustainability policy from our [2:03:44] Southdale goals um and while they could make the numbers work without Tiff we [2:03:50] would have to pull back from all of the policies that we typically employ on projects so the conclusion comes out to [2:03:56] be the same that with this proposal just the level of of tax-based growth is just [2:04:02] dramatically different and dramatically higher than than other even theoretical options out [2:04:07] there and this Char would um shows the same thing that that the that the other [2:04:12] one did um the the red line on the bottom just shows the existing condition just growth over time the Orange Line [2:04:20] kind of in the middle and towards the top that's that Al that hypothetical alternative um where there's no Tiff [2:04:26] necessary but we'd have to give waivers on our policies um but even if we would do that it's still eclipsed in the long [2:04:33] term by a project that delivers all of our policies with Tiff in the long term [2:04:38] it's still a better Financial output or outcome for the [2:04:45] community we also looked at how those tax dollars are distributed um not going [2:04:50] to go through this in detail but the the general comment or the general um [2:04:56] summary of this slide is currently 50% of the taxes generated [2:05:02] from that property go to the state and to the fiscal disparities pool leaving [2:05:07] only half to the city the schools and the county with this type of transformational development with with [2:05:14] Tiff when in the project is finished 75% of those taxes stay local to benefit the [2:05:20] school the county and the City and once they once that proportion change it's always in our [2:05:28] benefit so this slide summarizes the cost of those public benefits I mentioned there's a financing gap of [2:05:34] just under $23 million we did a a rough estimate of the costs of those public [2:05:40] improvements and we were conservative they're probably a little bit higher than this but we find that at least $29 [2:05:46] million is the cost for the developer to satisfy our public benefit requirement [2:05:53] um since their Gap is only 22.8 that's all we're offering um the [2:05:59] rest is just their cost of doing business so we really try to to to do the most and get the best outcomes um [2:06:05] that the developer can bear and still build the project but also the best outcomes for the community each of the contracts in your [2:06:13] packet is structured basically the same way it identifies the goals and respons or the responsibilities and the roles of [2:06:20] the developers the cities and the H so with the developer um ad's Tiff policy [2:06:26] is really to keep that Financial Risk in the developers Court that's their role [2:06:32] that's what they're good at so the cost to buy the land to secure the financing to get the contractors on board that all [2:06:39] rests with the developer the city's responsibility is to provide [2:06:45] reimbursement of those eligible costs when they're finished after they've delivered those public benefits so we're [2:06:51] anticipating uh three different Tiff notes one for each of the phases um uh [2:06:57] alog together those Tiff notes would add up to the $22.87 million amount um I [2:07:03] mentioned that uh the Tiff note that uh we talked about interest a few minutes ago uh the Tiff note dollar amounts here [2:07:11] are the principal value always always remember that the banks charge interest and we have to charge we're we're [2:07:17] charging interest as well so so those Tiff notes are interest bearing so over [2:07:23] time you know we'll pay the principal plus the interest on those notes I just want to be upfront about [2:07:29] that um for this proposal we're also recommending that the city consider the [2:07:34] use of spark on this project the spark program was created in uh 2021 and as as [2:07:41] you as you will recall uh that there was special Legislation during the pandemic where the state gave every city a little [2:07:47] bit more flexibility than they normally do um but that flexibility expires next [2:07:52] year December of 2025 so the city has about $5 million in [2:07:57] that spark fund and we're at the situation where it's going to soon it's going to be a use it or lose it um I [2:08:04] would strongly recommend that we use those dollars here in AA rather than giving them back to the county or back [2:08:10] to the state um so at the city's discretion uh we' structured these [2:08:16] agreements so that we can we can provide spark early on in the project when they're under construction we know [2:08:22] they're moving forward they've got shovels in the ground they're fully financed um and then any dollar amount [2:08:28] provided through spark would be reduced from that Tiff amount again based on some of your comments and directions we [2:08:34] wanted to reduce our Reliance on Tiff to the greatest extent that we could and that spark program is a good opportunity [2:08:40] to do that and then the last point I wanted to make is the lookback and the clawback so [2:08:47] um there's always concern about whether or not the Tiff amount provid Ed was it just enough was it not enough hope it's [2:08:54] not it should not not be enough but is it too much that's a concern did we use Tiff to overly enrich the developer to [2:09:02] make the project a grand slam home run they walk away the best deal they've ever done that's not what Tiff is for so [2:09:09] all of our contracts uh include look back conditions where the city has rights um to look at their financials [2:09:17] upon a sale or or at other points in the future to make sure that they didn't use Tiff to overly enrich themselves if we [2:09:25] find out they did have that grand slam home run project good for them that's the real estate IND industry in America [2:09:31] but at that point we stop making Tiff payments and we can claw some of our money back if we actually did provide [2:09:38] too much um so we always include those safeguards that's something that um our advisers strongly recommend it's [2:09:44] something we've done in a Dina for decades and we're going to do it again here uh so in conclusion that is a [2:09:51] overview of the Tiff District plan and the three Redevelopment agreements that are that are in your packet um uh I'm [2:09:59] happy to stand for any questions and as I mentioned our whole team is here for any questions as well yeah thank you manager neindorf um [2:10:07] you know I'm thinking that when we had the presentation last week at the HRA meeting uh member Pierce wasn't able to [2:10:14] be with us because he wasn't feeling well and member russer was uh representing our council at the National [2:10:20] League of City meeting and so three of us were there and heard essentially the same [2:10:26] presentation uh and voted favorably in in relative to the project but uh I [2:10:31] wanted to think about those two folks uh our colleagues that couldn't be with us last week for various reasons that they [2:10:37] might want to ask you some questions or ask uh our Public Finance people or our attorneys some questions uh before the [2:10:44] rest of us uh start to ask questions that may have popped up since the meeting last week so I could either turn [2:10:50] to member Pier sir member Risser member Risser go ahead um thank [2:10:56] you and I did watch that meeting um late at night and one of the questions I did [2:11:02] email you about this because we did approve using spark funds for the 7200 [2:11:09] project and I was really rather taken aback by um the spark plan well we [2:11:16] launched that it still needs to go through a process it has to be approved but um the idea was that the amount of [2:11:23] affordable housing would drop from 10% to 8% and if you could talk a little bit [2:11:29] about that and I I think what kind of rattled me is the ordinance that was [2:11:35] created the Pud specified 10% the Tiff agreement specified 10% and now we have [2:11:42] a spark Grant being launched that is going to bring the amount of affordable [2:11:48] housing down to 8% and is that is that something that could happen on [2:11:53] this site and does that mean we got to go back to the drawing board and we have to have more public hearings and do [2:11:59] another ordinance amendment that did not make sense to me sure happy to respond to that so [2:12:08] there's two questions there regarding the 7200 project um not part of our conversation tonight but happy to [2:12:14] respond to that um uh my colleague uh Miss hackinson worked on that deal and I [2:12:20] think the key difference in that project was a slightly reduced percentage in exchange for permanent affordability our [2:12:28] typical policy is 20 years for Tiff we try to push it to 30 but at some point in year 21 or year [2:12:37] 31 we're going to lose those units and so the goal is to get permanent and I think that was the exchange in the 7200 [2:12:44] project am I incorrect in thinking that the ordinance language requires 10% for [2:12:51] that property the Pud uh I I honestly don't know I didn't [2:12:58] work on that one and that wasn't what I prepared for tonight um uh I wonder if we should I don't know [2:13:04] if if our City's the puds required affordable [2:13:10] housing to be created and that it required 10% I I I can't comment on that I don't [2:13:18] know if Mr Lewis can but um I you know I think I I don't see the relevance of [2:13:24] that conversation unless you I mean your question about could something like this happen here in this particular situation [2:13:30] I don't think that's what staff is proposing but I'm not going to speak for manager nandor if he can answer that question himself because he did say [2:13:37] there were two questions posited so right right I think that's the one that I can respond to with certainty so for [2:13:43] this deal in front of you tonight the 7235 project uh the contracts are [2:13:49] written uh to f follow the Pud site plan approval uh where there's a binding [2:13:56] commitment for 10% of the units for a period of 30 years so for this site [2:14:02] that's that's where we are today could things be amended in the future I suppose theoretically anything could be [2:14:08] changed you'd have to go through the process again and there's a lot of a lot of process for that but right right now [2:14:13] the contracts in front of you are 10% of the rental apartments plus 10% of the [2:14:19] ownership condos for a full term of 30 years each thank you um but if we could [2:14:25] go to slide number 17 that shows the um proposed [2:14:31] underpass and I we did get an email today asking if there was any way the [2:14:38] additional um Tiff funds to 25% or this project could be taken out of the Tiff [2:14:45] agreement I I want to get on record that I do have a lot of con concerns about [2:14:52] the process in which this developed and um you know I I tried to figure out how [2:14:58] we got to this point so quickly and we were introduced to this idea of having a [2:15:05] crossing at this specific point I believe it was first in a working group and it was presented to us as look at [2:15:13] all look at these three possibilities you know a mall under the ground or you know a passageway that looks kind of [2:15:19] like this and I can't remember what the other one was but we never had the [2:15:24] conversation of should this be in this location and I know that yes this is [2:15:30] mentioned as a possibility in the huge study that was done back in [2:15:36] 2005 but I feel like we kind of did an end run around the public process and [2:15:42] that that really has me very concerned I feel like and and this is not the first time something like this has happened [2:15:47] like an idea that is really pretty fully formed um is presented as you know an [2:15:54] option this happened with um the land behind the fire station number two you know which design would you like for [2:16:01] affordable housing and we didn't talk about you know what are the ramifications of creating a section of [2:16:07] land that has no Road access and so you know when I look at this I kind of think [2:16:12] I really wish I had understood how this was unfolding and I feel like I I didn't [2:16:18] have enough information especially at that February feary meeting where we awarded an [2:16:23] $80,000 contract to do a feasibility study to lhb and I don't think we really got a [2:16:31] feasibility study and at that point I did not know that lhb was also going to [2:16:38] be I didn't know that there was going to be Tiff financing I didn't know that lhb was going to evaluating the Macy's site [2:16:45] and being the entity that determined that it was Tiff eligible and for me [2:16:50] this raises a lot of concern and I I don't know I mean do do we as a body need to be concerned about conflict of [2:17:01] interest um there's there's I don't I don't know what that I don't know what that last comment meant in the context [2:17:07] of the question that I thought was asked was you know for you to comment about the process involved [2:17:14] in this potential aspect of a tiff plan that might potentially include [2:17:21] an underground passageway which is part of the agenda tonight where we're going to talk about whether or not we should [2:17:28] approve a motion calling for additional study and pursuit of financing for France Avenue pedestrian Crossing so [2:17:34] it's far from anywhere uh and we've had you know some deliberate sort of discussion about it [2:17:40] but uh to the extent you can answer the question that member rer is Raising [2:17:46] please do sure sure and you're not the first to to ask that question so when I met when we met with Planning Commission [2:17:52] in September or October they had a similar question about the underpass and [2:17:57] So at their uh one of their suggestions was to not reference or include the [2:18:03] renderings of the underpass in the Tiff plan um I had initially put those in [2:18:09] there to be helpful to provide more information about the general direction this was going um but they raised a [2:18:15] asked a similar question raised a similar concern so in the Tiff plan that's in your packet you'll notice that [2:18:21] the renderings on the screen here are no longer in that plan instead there's a vague reference to potential future [2:18:28] public infrastructure which could be an underpass an overpass a sidewalk a pipe any different types of things um but how [2:18:36] we got to this point um you had mentioned in 2005 there was a study and then in 2007 there was a study um so [2:18:44] it's been talked about a lot and kind of put on the back Shelf with this project [2:18:49] uh moving forward as well as a project on the other side of the street moving forward it presented a uni unique [2:18:56] opportunity to dust off those old plans from the shelf and see if there was still an opportunity to move forward so [2:19:03] about a year ago in November of 2023 we presented an update to the H at the time [2:19:09] looking at different options overpass Bridges underpasses lots of different things and the general consensus and I [2:19:16] don't think everyone agreed on it was that the underpass was the preferred Direction and in February of this year [2:19:23] we started looking into that a little bit more deeply which yielded us the renderings that were're sharing here [2:19:29] today okay and that's that's not really what my question was it was more we we ended up at a specific site and that [2:19:36] makes me uncomfortable but I will move on to questions that have more to do with you know [2:19:42] um the the whole thing was about the butt for test you opened saying that this is all about the butt for test and [2:19:48] butt for Tiff this specific specific plan is not going to move forward when I [2:19:53] look at the butt for test slide that the um state auditor provides it says the [2:19:59] butt for test may not be so Black and White Pass definitely if no development [2:20:05] without Tiff okay and I I don't think we can say that that's the case um pass [2:20:12] with a question modest undesirable development would occur much later um [2:20:17] past SL fail modest development would occur later later um and I I think we [2:20:23] did see a slide that showed that development would occur later um fail [2:20:29] past like maybe it's okay decent development would happen fairly soon um [2:20:34] fail nearly comparable development would happen soon fail proposed development would surely occur without Tiff so [2:20:40] there's a range it's gray it's not just a black and white but for test and [2:20:45] that's something I'm really wrestling with um when we look at just the overall [2:20:53] development um and the type of structures that we're getting and what they're for um the vast majority is [2:21:01] market rate apartment and um we've had this would be [2:21:07] the third Tiff District although I I understand the first Tiff district has timed out but that too was primarily um [2:21:16] luxury and Class A office space um the second Tiff District uh Class A office [2:21:25] space and primarily market rate apartment and we have a third that is [2:21:31] you know the the vast majority again is market rate and um Class A office and I [2:21:39] feel like there isn't enough you know I'm trying to come up with an analogy [2:21:45] and I keep thinking about you know putting up too many casinos in one spot and then they all compete against each each other and it doesn't work out but [2:21:52] you know I think we really need to consider what we're doing and how much Tiff we're putting on a form of [2:22:01] residential housing that we've already surpassed what we were supposed to [2:22:06] create um according to the Met Council goals for market rate we're beyond that [2:22:12] so why are we putting so much money into this um and then office space it's 2024 [2:22:19] I know um the high-end office rates I believe the vacancy rate is lower like [2:22:25] 19% low is what it's at so it's lower than other offices but again you know I [2:22:31] just kind of I am very much wrestling with whether this is a tiff worthy project so those are those are my [2:22:37] concerns I guess that's not so much of a question but thank you we can go to [2:22:45] James yeah thank you member sorry thank [2:22:54] the the illness lingers on um so um I just have I had a couple comments and [2:23:01] maybe couple comments and maybe two questions um the first question on [2:23:09] the the 22.8 the Tiff note which is on your slide [2:23:16] 36 can you describe the 11 million for affordable [2:23:22] housing can you talk about just in practicality what that [2:23:30] is sure so slide 36 I put it back on the screen so this is a summary uh for each [2:23:37] of the individual lots and then the total um it's a summary of the estimated [2:23:44] cost of that public benefit so 11 11 just a nose over 11 million for [2:23:50] affordable housing that's two things added together that's the foregone sales [2:23:57] revenue from the five affordable condos um the developer is forgoing [2:24:02] nearly $2 million in sales revenue um had those been sold at Market rates he [2:24:09] would have realized $2 million in Revenue off the top and then for the [2:24:14] rental apartments a similar calculation it's the Delta between renting the unit [2:24:19] at Market rate for 30 years or rering renting the same unit at an affordable [2:24:25] rate for 30 years and then the present value of that cash flow that that Delta between affordable and market and that [2:24:33] when you add those together it comes to $1 million so that's half of the anticipated Tiff note amount um and so I [2:24:42] don't know if this is a question for you or for um the [2:24:48] developer if that were not included in the Tiff note so the 11 million comes [2:24:54] out and then our Tiff note is 11 million instead of 22 how does that impact the [2:25:04] project um I'll give a best guest but i' would love to hear from the developer directly um I mean it should boost their [2:25:11] financial returns which would lower the Tiff amount that they need oh wait let let me restate that CU let me restate [2:25:18] that so uh um yeah so let me restate that if um so [2:25:25] the way this is structured today the affordable housing expires in [2:25:32] 30 years and so what what would be the difference if [2:25:40] the developer I'm assuming would still pay the 11 million uh but they could still uh they [2:25:47] wouldn't have to provide affordable housing in these units and so the city would get the 11 [2:25:54] million I'm assuming the city would still get the 11 million and then we [2:25:59] could then use that 11 million for other projects in the city um to do owner [2:26:08] occupied is that could you do that uh let me I'm really asking the [2:26:15] okay as an example of the structure of how the 11 m actually operates sure [2:26:22] there's um so I I'll give you the tagam attorney sneak to the front there it's [2:26:27] not as simple yes or no um okay so if the developer extracted the affordable [2:26:32] units from this project um in our Tiff financing plan we still have a line item [2:26:37] for affordable housing so theoretically the city could capture those dollars and direct them somewhere else that's [2:26:43] theoretically possible okay um I don't know if it's the same dollar amount at some point there's a limit as far as [2:26:49] what you can pull out of this District um uh but I think it's theoretically [2:26:56] possible are there any practical challenges that I don't that must have been pretty good you got your attorneys [2:27:03] oh he stood up okay here we go mayor council members Jay lingren [2:27:08] from dorsy and Whitney I just wanted to add that you couldn't transfer all of [2:27:13] that 11 million out of this tax increment District unless you created a [2:27:21] affordable housing Tiff District which is at 30% Ami so a very dedicated [2:27:27] affordable then you could transfer that 11 to create a housing otherwise there [2:27:32] are a set of what are called pooling restrictions that say you have to use the tax increment within the tax [2:27:39] increment District that District okay okay thank you um that that was the the question um [2:27:47] and I you know where I'm going there and we've talked about this before um trying [2:27:55] to find a way that we can have permanent affordable housing we can really lean [2:28:02] into owner occupied um and one of the biggest [2:28:07] challenges for cities is funding and because this is one of the [2:28:13] ways we do it we essentially end up with the affordable housing that the [2:28:19] developer is offering offering us um and it's not it's not permanent um and so [2:28:26] I've continued to try to think of creative ways where we can actually [2:28:32] extract those funds and find a way that we can leverage those for [2:28:39] 100% um sustainable affordable housing and then [2:28:45] as a city we get to dictate well what type of affordable housing we would like [2:28:50] uh versus being um versus being tied to the affordable [2:28:56] housing that the developer is offering okay so that was [2:29:04] um I have a partial response with that's helpful yeah MH so I don't think this gets you all the way as where you want [2:29:10] to go but in each of these agreements uh for the rental units we did include [2:29:16] exhibit n as in Nancy uh which is a right of first option so what that means [2:29:22] is at some point in time if the developer chooses to convert the rental apartments to [2:29:28] condominium the city has the first right to purchase those affordable units and [2:29:33] if whether that's 10 years in the future 20 years 30 years in the future whenever that is the city is first in line to buy [2:29:40] those units um if we choose if we choose to buy it in the future we could then [2:29:45] make it permanently affordable um or come up with a whatever the right recipe was in in 20 or 30 years so it we try to [2:29:53] include as much flexibility but again I can't predict exactly what's going to what the world's going to look like in [2:29:58] 30 years and and I do just want to acknowledge that um the developer is [2:30:05] offering five condos that would be affordable uh owner occupied so I didn't [2:30:12] mean to misstate that to I didn't mean to insinuate that there was nothing [2:30:17] included uh but my point is is U you know continuing to try to figure out a [2:30:24] way that we could create a sustainable fund with some sizable dollars in it that we can then really start to push um [2:30:32] the envelope on um our affordable housing um [2:30:37] objectives um so that's one the the second question um was really about the [2:30:44] over or underpass um in the document there's 20 [2:30:50] 5% of the 22 million that I think is being earmarked for other projects and [2:30:58] yeah there you go um such as The Pedestrian Crossing um and this is just [2:31:03] another um more of a process question um if we are [2:31:11] asking later in the agenda the next agenda item should we pursue more study [2:31:17] there um can you just describe why we would then earmark funding for the [2:31:24] underpass as a part of this agreement versus once we're more sure uh what that [2:31:32] project is going to look like I just want to understand that sure sure so in this agreement [2:31:41] um we don't specifically earm market for any particular project but we do put our [2:31:47] foot in the door and Reserve 25 % of the future incremental taxes for a public [2:31:53] infrastructure Improvement or for pooling so we want to be careful because [2:31:58] the that underpass is not well enough defined at this moment in time um so we [2:32:04] provided as much flexibility as we could to give the city the the runway that we [2:32:09] need to decide what is the right project yeah um so just because we reserve [2:32:16] 25% we still have flexibility as far as how those funds are used so those so the [2:32:21] it' be more accurate to say we're going to pull 25% of those [2:32:27] funds um to be used for projects in that area but but I think however that's [2:32:34] another option too yeah however we've worded it I think people are assuming that those funds are for The Pedestrian [2:32:41] Crossing I mean we even referenced it in several documents um and so that's why I [2:32:47] was asking that question because it it what you said would make sense to me if we're not [2:32:53] sure what we're going to do there we really shouldn't be earmarking funds for it and your attorney is coming back up [2:33:01] to the uh I think we're on the same page go ahead well it strikes me that there's some timing issues involved here and as [2:33:08] to when you do it if we were to approve these agreements we better have something about this in an agreement [2:33:14] now right mayor and I didn't just walk up I nodded at the mayor to let him know I wanted but I wanted to make a comment [2:33:21] uh council member Pierce about pooling again because since this is a Redevelopment agreement or District what [2:33:28] the state law allows us to do is to pull 25% out to use for another purpose when [2:33:34] I mentioned before there was a cap like in your 11 million scenario it could go 100% if it was for very affordable [2:33:41] housing so first of all a 7525 is kind of a normal cap and we [2:33:48] designed a program here that could fill the Gap in this project just using 75 so you have your [2:33:55] maximum ability to pull into somewhere else okay so you could use it for an [2:34:01] underpass even if it was in another location oh got it okay okay and we [2:34:06] talked about this at the h meeting this very issue and the question came up the [2:34:11] one that you just asked with your prior question is if we decided we weren't going to go forward with that [2:34:17] passageway could this 25 % be used to establish be pooled and be used for affordable [2:34:24] housing yes I think your answer was yes yes so we we're we're theoretically [2:34:30] smart to capture part of the 25% of the 100% of the Tiff for ourselves in case [2:34:36] we see a a purpose for it that was the that was the [2:34:43] strategy no thank you um are there other are there current examples like I'm [2:34:49] thinking May perhaps we used pooling when we did pedestrian road construction [2:34:57] around um we had funding from Mason green to do some of the street [2:35:02] enhancements here I don't know if that was pooling or not but if you um can [2:35:07] give a couple of examples of pooling that'd be great sure sure so [2:35:13] the the definition of pooling technically is taking the money's outside of the geographic boundaries [2:35:20] in the mson green we the boundaries are broad enough where we didn't actually have to pull it out um but theoretically [2:35:28] it's the same thing so the the tax revenue generated from the new mesan Green Apartments uh is sufficient to reimburse [2:35:35] them for their cost to get that project moving plus about six OR7 million in [2:35:42] public improvements so that was all the construction work this Summer that was the roundabouts and the Grange Avenue [2:35:48] and 50th Street being being rebuilt um rather than going to the general fund and the general Levy those uh expenses [2:35:56] are going to be borne from that Tiff District um we've done similar things [2:36:02] um uh at 50th in France um where we use [2:36:09] some monies from Centennial Lakes to build that North ramp uh there were some [2:36:15] Tiff dollars available in that District um so we pulled them out of the District into that ramp instead of issuing debt [2:36:22] for that we had cash so we used cash um and then uh when I first started here uh [2:36:29] our finance director at the time mentioned that we did the same thing but the opposite direction in the 1980s we [2:36:35] pulled money from 50th in France in the 1980s down into C tenu Lakes to make [2:36:40] some improvements down there long time ago so it's it's a common technique we've used it a lot in AA um uh and it's [2:36:48] a good opportunity here as as well U thank you for that and then the [2:36:54] other the two comments or maybe one comment I do um [2:36:59] appreciate the staff um taking my questions and [2:37:06] um the slide where you have the options right providing that content um and then [2:37:12] I also I spent quite a bit of time with Mr Brahma uh talking about other options [2:37:19] versus um the use of Tiff um and so I I just want to acknowledge that I do appreciate the that work um and that [2:37:28] level of Engagement from staff as well as Mr brma thank you thank [2:37:35] you um all right let's uh start a [2:37:41] conversation remember Jackson would you like to lead us off certainly thank you Mr Mayor so in the um slides that we [2:37:49] looked at there were some alternative scenarios I just want to sort [2:37:56] of uh ground the discussion here those were fictitious [2:38:02] Alternatives what we have before us is a very specific [2:38:08] development nobody else has come forward and Mr Brahma didn't have to beat out three different um companies to say to [2:38:15] get his comfor he approached Macy's came up with the idea looked at our policies [2:38:22] and developed this development based on what we had made publicly available so [2:38:27] these others are are fictitious for purpose of argument it was very enlightening to think about but this is [2:38:34] a very specific project we saw several iterations of [2:38:40] this development come forward and each time we push the developer more to make [2:38:46] it this look like what we wanted it to look like and that cost money um over I believe over 40% of this [2:38:54] um piece of land will have a public easement on it which means full public [2:39:00] use of that land um big thing for me is the funding [2:39:05] for Centennial Lakes if we were going to have Tiff without that that meant that people would be moving into this area [2:39:13] provide you know more wear and tear in the park we welcome them but people create garbage and uh need to be cleaned [2:39:20] up after and so we're going to get funding to cover the cost of that new [2:39:25] population coming in the list of public benefits is long but for me it's very [2:39:32] important that the discussion that we just had about that additional 25% if this was just for the four [2:39:39] corners of the development I don't know how I would vote but because it has the opportunity [2:39:46] to create maybe the underpass maybe a bridge maybe it's pooling for affordable [2:39:52] housing but I think if we can get a safe pedestrian crossing here this will be [2:39:58] transformational for the whole region so the Southdale plan is transformational [2:40:04] in its own way but this goes beyond the four corners of the property and that is very important to me in Tiff going [2:40:10] forward and so I intend to support this thank [2:40:16] you yes member AG do thank thank you um I I really appreciate all the dialogue [2:40:23] and the conversation that we've had about this project and I know I think [2:40:29] you mentioned five conversations that we've had about it there's been that's just for the funding part of it right there there have been a lot more and [2:40:37] it's it's not perfect it's not 100% of what I would like to see in this area [2:40:44] but I don't know that I could pick out what perfect is either and I think think [2:40:49] that I'm really excited to see transformation on this site I do like the use of Tiff for this [2:40:58] purpose and I do really appreciate that we've been able to find a way to pull um [2:41:05] potential resources to invest in other ways that we want to amplify the impact that this development the development [2:41:11] across the street is going to have on this area and so I I do also appreciate [2:41:18] staff from for one frontloading the conversation on could there be a [2:41:25] pedestrian underpass and I I know that that's later in the agenda and we still have a lot to figure out there but the [2:41:31] reason that it came up now is because it is a once in a lifetime opportunity or [2:41:36] once in a generational opportunity I should probably say where we have such major development on both sides of the [2:41:45] of France of this area and so I know it's [2:41:51] not necessarily the most ideal order but I don't know how we could get an ideal [2:41:57] order of operations on this either and so I think that staff has really found a way to not say here's 25% in order to do [2:42:06] this underpass um yes it was referenced as a potential example but really we're saying here's [2:42:12] 25% that we can use towards whatever this body and based off of input from [2:42:17] individuals res pres um commission members whoever else how we decide to [2:42:24] infuse that investment that continued investment into Edina um so I just [2:42:29] appreciate the work that went into that um and answering all of the questions because I I do recognize that this isn't [2:42:37] the easiest three project potential to weave [2:42:42] together um but overall I I like the way that this is coming together so thank you thank you [2:42:51] Pierce I go to member rer thanks um Mr Mayor um I you know on the [2:43:00] 25% like I think we're kidding ourselves if we're pretending that we're not it at least [2:43:08] set the frame that we're going to use some of that money for a potential [2:43:14] pedestrian pass um I and I don't know how we set [2:43:20] that frame when it was set um but we but we have set that and so I think we just [2:43:27] have to we're kidding ourselves if we uh want to pretend that well we're going to [2:43:33] use that for just general pooling I said that is what you um probably meant in [2:43:40] the beginning but we have continued to say uh pedestrian pass and um I mention [2:43:49] it that way because I I think the process and what we communicate and how [2:43:55] we communicate it like it really matters um and so I I just think we have to I [2:44:02] don't know how to resolve that but I think we got to do um we have to improve [2:44:09] on how we communicate intent um and you know the other side of the coin if we [2:44:15] had just said we're going to pull 25% for or other projects maybe somebody [2:44:21] would still assume we want that for The Pedestrian pass or um I think one [2:44:28] resident actually talked about the lid again like that lid Never Dies and that [2:44:34] was never even a project that was up for approval um and so these things kind of [2:44:40] have a a life of their own um and so I think words and how we say things [2:44:46] definitely matter um and it's it' be good for for us to lean into that [2:44:51] um the um I also believe that um I [2:44:59] understand the point that the options that we look at um the ones that were presented tonight as well as uh the one [2:45:08] that Mr Brahma uh presented um in another me a prior meeting um and he [2:45:17] actually said we would never you would never present this as a project because [2:45:23] you're aware of all of the policies um that we have as a city um and I it's [2:45:31] tough for me to I shouldn't say it's it's tough I [2:45:37] just don't like being in the position of as a city counil member have to [2:45:43] operate with these blinders on and so some of the questions that I ask [2:45:49] actually have nothing to do with the approval of the project in front of me there are questions that are being asked [2:45:55] where I think we need perhaps a different direction or we need to look [2:46:00] at um our processes and refine those um this is one of those cases where we have [2:46:09] policies in place um I talked about the example from affordable housing I don't [2:46:16] believe that that policy gets us the best affordable housing for Idina [2:46:23] but the policy exists and so what I'm asked to do as a council member is apply [2:46:29] that policy I wasn't here when we developed that policy but I'm still right as an [2:46:36] elected official it is still my responsibility to um understand it and apply it um and so [2:46:44] I get that but it's also my responsibility to question and Challenge [2:46:49] and say there could be a different way or a better way of doing it um and so the broad question the broad comment [2:46:56] that I made earlier not tonight but in a previous meeting I wonder if a lot of our [2:47:05] policies guidelines are increasing the expense of a lot of [2:47:14] projects and I question whether or not with all of them are we getting the the value out of them that that was [2:47:21] originally intended um and I think it would be smart for us to lean into that [2:47:29] and as a city try to understand um maybe council member peerce is wrong maybe we [2:47:36] get all the value out of those we want and then some um and I'd be totally fine with that um but as I sit back and I [2:47:43] look at some of this um um I question whether or not we are are getting all of [2:47:49] the value out of some of the policies and um guidelines that we [2:47:55] have um I already mentioned earlier that I do appreciate the um effort that has [2:48:04] gone into at least going down this path and and providing some information uh [2:48:10] for us that um I don't know that we would have had uh without asking the [2:48:16] question of well what would you do if you got little to notive right I think that one question kicked off additional [2:48:23] analysis we saw additional content and while I think many of my my [2:48:30] colleagues had a lot of those um answers in their heads already from experience [2:48:37] it was good to be able to go through that in a public form uh for um the rest [2:48:43] of the of the concerns are interested um [2:48:48] res for them to see it um let me [2:48:56] see I do think that um as has been articulated that there is value public [2:49:05] benefit in um this project um we've talked about that countless times um [2:49:14] before tonight so again in previous meetings as well um and so I do appre appreciate the effort that you Mr rahma [2:49:22] have gone through to adjust Things based on feedback that you've gotten U whether [2:49:29] it be from the council uh from residents um or from the the Planning [2:49:36] Commission thank you yes I just want to briefly react to [2:49:41] some of the things you said member Pierce um I forget the exact wording so [2:49:47] I'm not going to quote you um but early on you mentioned you know how we've [2:49:52] talked both about the pooling and we're saying that these could be used for other things and what I had heard was [2:50:00] that this was potentially maybe disingenuous or maybe not what we were intending to do with these [2:50:06] funds um so I don't know if you can just clarify but I feel like we are saying [2:50:13] this is one option and we're also saying it hasn't been approved we haven't agreed on it in any way or form and so [2:50:20] it's also totally in my perspective a possibility that they could be used for [2:50:27] many many other things including affordable housing including other infrastructure projects so I don't know if you could react to that yeah yeah no [2:50:33] no thanks for um asking the question um [2:50:38] and so I would say full stop I don't believe that we [2:50:45] are wording things to be disingenuous as a city um I I definitely don't believe [2:50:53] that um and so I want want to make sure everybody hears me say that that is not [2:51:00] what I meant at all um but that being said I think the way that we communicate [2:51:07] some of these things um it's 100% that there are members in the [2:51:14] community who may think that we're being disingenuous um and I can give a [2:51:19] specific example um we were at a um campaign event one of the with community [2:51:27] members um and this would have been one of the neighborhood um meetings and I [2:51:34] remember the first time I heard someone say we're earmarking funds for The [2:51:40] Pedestrian underpass and I had a reaction to that [2:51:45] thinking to myself well we're not we're not doing that and so afterwards I ask [2:51:52] that person where are you getting that from and they send me back a slide that looks very similar to uh the one we had [2:51:59] tonight that says 25% for other projects [2:52:04] or or could include right a pedestrian pass um and so I definitely don't think [2:52:11] that we are hiding information or trying to be um um certainly not disingenuous [2:52:19] in any way um and so I think that that requires us to be really specific and [2:52:24] clear in the way we communicate um so that it's not misinterpreted in any [2:52:32] way rer thank you and to that point I mean [2:52:37] it is very clear in the text if you look at page 29 article 9 the definition of [2:52:43] public Crossing um notes that it is to connect the two properties and so that [2:52:49] site it is there it is in the Tiff agreement um I there are several things [2:52:57] that I am concerned about and make it difficult for me to support this Pro [2:53:03] this this Tiff Zone um and I've mentioned some of them before but I'm [2:53:08] fascinated and also kind of horrified by the practice of tipping puds and the [2:53:15] reason for that is during the Pud process there's the give to get and it's not [2:53:24] turning out that the classic result of a PUD where you get more perious surface [2:53:29] more green space that generally doesn't happen we're getting a lot of um impervious surface um yes it'll be open [2:53:35] to the public but there's that um and then you know we saw how well without [2:53:42] Tiff you're not going to get the affordable housing but that was supposed to be part of the Pud agreement uh [2:53:48] you're not not going to get the sustainability but again that was supposed to be part of the Pud agreement [2:53:54] and so I kind of feel like it's not really a give to get it's a it's a give to get but we'll pay you for what you're [2:54:00] giving us and and that really bothers me a lot um when I think about this [2:54:07] particular project uh I I [2:54:12] feel like there's you know yes the developer [2:54:18] went to Macy's and you know launched this project and all of this U Macy's itself [2:54:27] you know is a viable commercial Enterprise right now and you know yes I [2:54:33] could see the argument that this is only this is the only thing that they will be [2:54:39] open to and we're not going to get any other kind of development and you could say it's just all fictional but at the [2:54:45] same time what we're getting is primarily um construction that we don't [2:54:52] necessarily need okay and so I can't I can't get past that reality um and so [2:55:00] that that is really a problem for me right now [2:55:07] um the other thing you know we talked about police hours what would be [2:55:13] generated it wouldn't be enough to justify hiring a new person and it would [2:55:18] be 100 hours and I think you know what I would like to see is a bar graph that shows every single Tiff project um where [2:55:26] we are going to need more commitment from the fire department from the police [2:55:31] so that we get a running total of how many hours we are getting you know we have so many Tiff financed projects uh [2:55:39] that have housing in them and so you know what what is the Tipping Point where we have you know reached the point [2:55:47] where we do need to hire more staff because there really is that direct relationship and so I think that is [2:55:54] really very important um the other concern I have about Tiff and public [2:55:59] infrastructure there is no you know we talk about oh down the road we're going to get input from the public really when [2:56:06] there's not going to be a public hearing if we decide to build the underpass there's no need it's Tiff money um there [2:56:12] was no need to have a public hearing for the pedestrian bridge across the train tracks and there's now a doj inquiry um [2:56:21] I think the public feedback is important you know how is that going to work in [2:56:27] this scenario when you have Tiff money you don't have public engagement necessarily so um for all of those [2:56:33] reasons I I cannot support this third Tiff District thank you thank you member [2:56:40] rer um so member rer raised an is issue in her prior comments about the butt for [2:56:46] test not being black and white and I think uh manager nondorf was concurring [2:56:53] you know that uh but I think we've learned that with this particular project the project that we approved the [2:57:01] site plan that we approved this project as as approved would not proceed but for [2:57:07] Tiff and the reason it is approved in the form it was approved in is because of [2:57:14] the fact that we as a city demand certain things out of that [2:57:20] site that we thought that to the issue of whether there's a sufficient public benefit delivered I think slide 20 has [2:57:29] many of your public benefit elements to it you know that include the $3 million Park dedication [2:57:36] fee the $3 million in park maintenance uh obligation 80,000 a year for 30 years [2:57:42] uh there's a development uh impact fee I think of $10 million and then uh the [2:57:47] list go on and on uh [2:57:55] so they can do a project they could do a project that doesn't have us as a partner but in the circumstances where [2:58:02] we want to be a partner and we want to see the project elevated to the standards that we [2:58:09] demand then we've got to be prepared to step up as a partner now it used to be when we first passed that affordable [2:58:14] housing policy that we could demand that affordable units to be in there for a certain period of time on the developer [2:58:21] nickel but we've learned that that's not possible anymore our affordable housing manager has told us as much we're not [2:58:26] going to get affordable housing units unless we are a partner in these projects that come along and when they a [2:58:33] new project comes along that has this kind of capacity from a multi family [2:58:38] standpoint and we have the number of units in there that we have the opportunity to have in there we have [2:58:43] said we should be saying we're prepared to step up as a partner and help make that possible POS with that affordable [2:58:49] housing element of it so for me we we passed about four [2:58:57] tests there's a sufficient public benefit delivered I mean there's we're we're we're you we're making them we're [2:59:04] carving up pursuant to the design experience guidelines we're carving up an 80 acre parcel into four Parcels [2:59:10] getting interior streets that they're responsible for as member Jackson says the public gets to use 43% of it I think [2:59:17] the project overall project has public ements involved uh with respect to the [2:59:23] potential for some way to connect these two properties across the street from each other I think you've gone about [2:59:29] that in a very deliberate way and and I I like the notion that our team our [2:59:36] lawyers our Public Finance people and you as our our our economic development manager have [2:59:42] said we're going to we're going to recommend that you you approve this from a tiff use us standpoint and here's the [2:59:49] elements that we're going to prove it's not going to be more than 10% of the total value of the project we only use it about 10% of the time in all projects [2:59:56] but here's what we think you should be thinking about you should be thinking about using it in this way and for these [3:00:03] purposes and for me those were those were persuasive because we can have [3:00:09] regular nice projects or we can have elevated beautiful projects that have a [3:00:14] huge amount of potential with respect to being able to connect these properties across the street from each other now [3:00:19] that the jury is still out on that we're we're still analyzing that but we've got to go step by step and then to the point [3:00:27] that member egner was Raising about the I think the the the smart way [3:00:34] that you as our advisers went about recommending that 25% of the Tiff get reserved and is coming back to us for [3:00:41] some particular purpose is really an important element of this because there are other ways to fund this [3:00:48] if we if we thought we know it's feasible now we've got the engineering report we don't know if it's practical [3:00:54] or worth the expense we got to analyze that yet and we're going to talk about that in a minute but we have uh we have [3:01:02] the ability to go to like the bipartisan infrastructure law and apply because of [3:01:08] all the elements that I've seen in the in the bipartisan infrastructure law in the iig to apply for total funding of [3:01:14] that project because of the elements that it includes including being able to get kids from uh affordable housing [3:01:21] projects uh east of uh York uh to school in a safe way I mean there's all kinds [3:01:26] of elements here that we could where we could receive a grant possibilities where we could receive a grant so we [3:01:33] could take that 25% and use it for some other particular purpose uh that we think is important to do from a pooling [3:01:39] standpoint and maybe it's affordable housing that five or $6 million that that we would we would aggregate [3:01:45] there so when I think about what we can have or [3:01:51] what we could have if we were a good partner and and did this the way we do [3:01:57] it in Edina and we get to have housing and we get to have a cash flow to help us maintain Centennial l park all these [3:02:05] other elements uh public parking public parking at great I think public parking [3:02:11] underground uh 140 some units of public parking there's so many good things about this that tell me that [3:02:20] our advisor led us in a good direction and I'm prepared to support both the uh [3:02:26] establishment of the Tiff District to go to the next step and also to support the uh [3:02:32] execution of these agreements to go to you know the next step on these agreements so [3:02:39] um you want you've got two separate motions here one is to approve resolution 2024 [3:02:46] which would establish the 72nd France number 3 Tiff tax INR financing district [3:02:52] is there a motion to approve that resolution so moved second member egno [3:02:58] moves member Jackson seconds the adoption of resolution 202478 which would establish the 72nd France number [3:03:05] three tax Eng government financing District uh further discussion on that particular [3:03:10] resolution all those in favor of adoption of that resolution 202478 say I [3:03:16] I I opposed name exension abstention motion carries resolution [3:03:23] 202478 is adopted uh the next motion is to approve the Tiff Redevelopment agreements with Enclave companies DBA [3:03:30] Enclave loc and lifestyle communities Lo and authorized City staff to implement [3:03:35] the terms of the agreements uh you know the terms of the agreements those three [3:03:41] agreements uh is there a motion to that effect moved second remember m Jackson [3:03:48] moves member U seconds the adoption of the uh Tiff Redevelopment agreements [3:03:53] with Enclave companies DBA Enclave LLC and lifestyle communities LLC and [3:03:58] authorized staff to implement the terms of the agreements uh any further discussion mayor yes yes I do um we [3:04:06] received um two potential uh Redevelopment agreement um [3:04:12] I guess what we call these amendments or additions um and this was in direct [3:04:19] response to the um request that I had had for the site the conversation that [3:04:27] we had had last time about how can we ensure that there's something that's a community draw onto this location um and [3:04:35] so staff developed um two additions to add to these agreements and so I would [3:04:41] like to make an amendment that we include these in there [3:04:49] um are we going about this in the proper procedural manner got a motion in a second on the [3:04:55] adoption of the agreement says they've been crafted but we haven't talked about these potential additions to Article [3:05:03] 15 uh and exhibit d uh under discussion uh happy to to [3:05:09] provide a little bit more information about that um I think you could modify the motion to include an [3:05:17] amendment uh if there first and second I suppose we could do it two ways I [3:05:22] suppose we could we could proceed on what we've got in front of us and then make a motion to amend or we could we [3:05:28] could have the maker and the seconder back off and recraft the motion who made [3:05:34] the motion was it Kate or was it um Carolyn looking at the attorney here too [3:05:41] oh mayor I would interpret member AG's comment as a Amendment to the motion to [3:05:48] add these additional Provisions all right so what we would do then procedurally is that we would vote on [3:05:53] the Amendments first and then we would go back and vote on the main [3:05:59] motion that what you were getting at what I was getting at is whoever was the person that made the motion could accept [3:06:05] the amendment but I couldn't remember which one of you made it procedurally well we [3:06:10] don't we don't have yeah yeah so we're partway through the process I think the proper process would be to vote on the [3:06:16] amendments and then go back and vote on the main agreement at least that's what [3:06:22] we've done at the tab somebody makes an amendment before we vote on the main [3:06:27] motion is it possible to have have a discussion without moving the amendment [3:06:33] um because we've got a motion on the floor to appr we don't have yeah we [3:06:39] don't have a second well we have a motion on the floor and a second to approve the agreement and now we're at [3:06:45] discussion could we discuss the amendment potential Amendment [3:06:50] first and then make the motion or or not because I don't I don't honestly I don't [3:06:56] really understand this I just saw it this evening and I I'm uncomfortable with legal language that I haven't you [3:07:02] know gone through so what I was going to say was that member U has moved the adoption of these items as an amendment [3:07:10] but we don't have a second correct so it could fail for the lack of a second if you wanted to think about [3:07:17] uh not addressing this right now now M Mr nondorf why don't you step up [3:07:24] here what would be the consequences of I mean we saw this for the first time in [3:07:29] our on the Das this evening I think member agno may have had try time [3:07:35] to study it through but I haven't uh maybe you want to explain it sure and maybe we maybe we could come back and [3:07:41] amend the agreements uh at at our next meeting or maybe we can deal with it yet tonight [3:07:47] just not sure I think you can deal with it tonight it's a very simple Amendment um uh one that you explain it [3:07:56] I'm sorry is it one that you support yes all right well then go ahead and explain it sure thing so uh at last week's h [3:08:03] meeting uh uh commissioner agu asked for a little bit more clarity and certainty [3:08:09] that the developer would make best efforts to to come up with a tenant mix [3:08:14] that created a real destination on the site that attracted people in the community to it we had a a discussion at [3:08:21] the H about what that meant and then some follow-up conversation as well while it's too early in the process [3:08:28] to name specific tenants at this point in time um we do recommend and support [3:08:35] putting these amendments into the legal agreements um this language has been [3:08:41] crafted uh By Myself by Mr lingren and by the developers we've and their attorneys we've a lot of time has has [3:08:48] gone into the word smithing of these uh few sentences um but [3:08:53] essentially we're recommending that a provision be added to each of the agreements to the Northwest the [3:08:59] southwest and the East that would focus on Commercial leasing so it's section [3:09:05] [Music] 15.11 and essentially it it just um sets the bar for the developer um to find a [3:09:13] robust tenant mix that is commercially successful but also that provides that [3:09:19] kind of community destination that type of entertainment type of option so I I think one of the things um you know that [3:09:26] we would be dissatisfied with were would be um a whole bunch of tenants that were [3:09:32] nail salons and sandwich shops it's not really it's a great little retail strip but that's not the kind of destination [3:09:38] that I think this body had in mind last week and so the language in in section [3:09:44] 15.11 sets the goal as as far as what we uh what we can agree to look for without [3:09:50] getting specific right we don't want to name this restaurant or this comedy club or that activity space and then the [3:09:58] second uh sentence is adding um an additional provision to the go-ahead [3:10:04] letter so when the developer gets full funding they've purchased the the land [3:10:10] they've got their debt they've got their Equity they're ready to pull a permit and and start construction they're [3:10:16] required to alert up us as a financial participant in this we're recommending in that goahead letter we also at that [3:10:23] point have them disclosed to us who's the marketing agent let's see that marketing package let's learn more about [3:10:30] your marketing strategy uh because that that's the most appropriate time so that that time frame is probably a year in [3:10:37] the future um so the the sentences are pretty simple uh they're they're what [3:10:43] you see is what you get there's no hidden connections or anything um in the packet there are lots of renderings and [3:10:50] letters from jll Jones Lang laal who's their uh expected to be their leasing agent and then renderings of what some [3:10:57] of the exterior spaces could look like when they're actually activated um so that's an overview yeah [3:11:03] that that's helpful very helpful um maker of the [3:11:09] motion [3:11:15] Jackson can approach this two ways I think we could we could look for a second on the proposed amendment but if [3:11:22] you if you withdraw the main motion and you withdrew your second then we could just move to approve the agreements with [3:11:29] the addition of these two items I will withdraw my motion draw your second and we'll remake [3:11:36] the motion yes pleas okay so we're now going to move to approve the Tiff [3:11:43] Redevelopment agreements with Enclave companies DBA Enclave D LC and life lifestyle communities [3:11:48] alloc with the addition of uh items 9.5 uh number one at section 15.11 of [3:11:57] all three agreements and then adding uh the um following language that's [3:12:03] embodied uh on Roman numeral 9 of exhibit d uh to those all two all three [3:12:12] of those agreements um and authorized staff to mement the terms of the agreements with [3:12:19] the addition of the items that we just discussed so moved second now we got a [3:12:24] motion by member U second by member Jackson um to the motion is [3:12:31] stated uh further discussion all those in favor of [3:12:36] adoption of the uh Tiff Redevelopment agreements uh as modified as stated in [3:12:44] the main motion uh say I I I opposed name exension [3:12:53] exension matter carries the motion to approve the Tiff Redevelopment agreements with the additions [3:13:00] described uh with Enclave companies DBA Enclave D LC and lifestyle communities [3:13:05] LC are approved and staff is authorized to implement the terms of the agreements with the developer all three agreements [3:13:13] so thank you everybody for your U your work on this matter that was [3:13:18] addressed particularly you know last week in the HRA meeting by council member agno so thanks everybody for some [3:13:26] really Superior work here and the developer as well all right [3:13:36] um now uh member newor member new andorf Mr neindorf manager new andorf you have [3:13:42] something else you want to talk to us about and that is resolution 20248 which potentially calls for additional [3:13:49] study in pursuit of financing for France Avenue pedestrian Crossing you want to explain what you're after there correct [3:13:54] sure uh so this resolution simply acknowledges the uh feasibility report [3:14:00] that we received in its final format last week um and directs staff to do a [3:14:06] little bit more study um and to start looking at financing options um so it's [3:14:12] it's at this point it's not a commitment to build anything at any particular place at any particular time but it's to [3:14:19] start taking this feasibility study and going a little bit deeper um uh we think [3:14:25] there the the initial look is fairly light but at some point in the next six months or so we'll probably have to hire [3:14:32] if we choose to go forward we'll put together a proposal um to engage a new engineering firm or a engineering firm [3:14:38] to study it more deeply that would come back to you as a h for those Investments [3:14:43] um but any action like that would be delayed into until the developer actually acquires the land uh we want to [3:14:51] be careful that the city doesn't get over our skis on this um but once the developer acquires the site it's obvious [3:14:58] that they will be moving forward and that's when when we would expect to come back to you um but we do want to start [3:15:04] applying for Grants and looking into funding as soon as possible because that's low cost and high return for the [3:15:10] community well the you've got a significant number of whereases in the resolution which is typical but the [3:15:16] resolution at the end is that the city council uh supports the additional study and [3:15:22] pursuit of potential funding for France Avenue for a France Avenue pedestrian Crossing and authorizes staff to conduct [3:15:30] additional studies so that the city can determine uh whether or not to proceed with the POs with this possible project [3:15:37] and I take it when you mean the city you mean the city council correct then member U has a question for you or a [3:15:43] comment thank you mayor um and thank you manager for preparing this I had I had [3:15:49] asked um I spoken with Scott Neil about how do we pursue this how do we push [3:15:55] this forward and appreciate the work that staff put on um coming up with this I think very specifically as we continue [3:16:02] the conversation about it um there are two direct asks that if this were to be [3:16:08] passed I would like to also make to um City staff um based off of conversation [3:16:14] and dialogue that we've had here tonight um one is I would love um for our MJ's [3:16:22] title Community engagement director um to prepare a community engagement [3:16:28] process um and make that a part of this as well how are we going to take feedback what kind of community [3:16:34] conversations are we going to have and structure it um to appease any concerns [3:16:39] that like we're not going to engage Community because I I fully hope and know that we will for this um and then I [3:16:45] also think it would be Val able to have even if it's a portion of a work session [3:16:51] a work session with um commission members whether maybe it's a joint session with the Planning Commission and [3:16:57] the Transportation Commission um specifically to collect their ideas and [3:17:03] and discuss potential collaboration or input that they might have on the project um so I want to hear everyone [3:17:08] else's thoughts but that's just a little bit more structure on kind of why we're seeing this tonight I asked for this to be put together um and just additional [3:17:16] components that I think will help um in driving the potential of this project forward thanks for raising those two [3:17:22] points and and I know I made a note when member rer uh was concerned about [3:17:27] whether there'd be ever be a public hearing with respect to a potential underpass under France Avenue and I made [3:17:33] that note because I I wanted to say that's up to us that's up to us we we we [3:17:38] could do what we want with that and I think it's an intention to do that um go ahead Member rer One Thing throughout [3:17:46] this whole process we have heard um that this is going to be similar to the York [3:17:51] Avenue underpass I went out and I measured that space and the York Avenue [3:17:58] underpass is 35 ft wide however in some places U it's even wider than that [3:18:05] because it has those cutouts for the benches uh the dimensions that are given [3:18:12] for the tunnel is 24 to 30 for width that's very [3:18:18] different than 35 so I would respectfully ask that when we talk about that comparison we have a clear overlay [3:18:25] image that shows that the width for the proposed underpass is going to be [3:18:30] significantly um narrower the other thing is the ceiling for that York pass [3:18:36] is 12 feet high um the language that we read from the report says it'll be a [3:18:42] minimum of 10 ft for going all the way there um the there's this impression [3:18:47] that it'll be a similar exposure to open light um the reality is if you measure [3:18:54] you know the amount of space that's covered and the amount of space that's open you've got [3:19:00] 30.5% exposure to Daylight between those two elements that little slit that's [3:19:06] only going to be 8 ft wide that's 3.5% so it's a tenth of what the York [3:19:13] bridge is and so if we're going to make that comparison it needs to be fair and we need to have a visual that instructs [3:19:20] people very clearly that it's going to be a very different kind of space to go through um so I I ask that if we're [3:19:27] going to continue with that comparison you know we've got to get some information there so that it's more [3:19:33] accurate um thank you yeah thanks member Jackson um yes thank you so member agnu [3:19:39] you stole my thunder I I like your idea actually better than what I was thinking [3:19:44] but I know in the past when there have been proposals they've uh presented to [3:19:50] the different commissions and so we might um you know think about whether it's all the commissions or um you know [3:19:57] who but I think that that's a better uh forum for everybody to talk about it we [3:20:04] might still have a joint you know a work session with them but I would like to see a presentation to the different [3:20:10] commissions and get uh written feedback from them [3:20:16] yeah thanks for that too uh manager nindorf could you come back up here you know the the resolution as proposed [3:20:24] is I'll say generally let let's keep studying this to see if it makes any sense and so when you think about that [3:20:31] well what does that mean what me what do you what do you envision as the next step we've had a feasibility study from [3:20:37] one engineering company that says yeah we think it's feasible and uh and we think we have some rough ideas on [3:20:43] costing but it's it's not near nearly ready for Community conversation yet so [3:20:48] what do you what do you see us doing next sure um I don't have a full plan or a full PL strategy laid out at this [3:20:55] point but one of the first steps to do is to um internally we would do a PPP [3:21:01] plan a public participation plan that's what um uh my colleague mg Layman [3:21:07] typically does to to define those strategies and come up with realistic expectations of how can we engage the [3:21:14] public what does the public mean is that the citizens is that the businesses is it the commissions is it all of those [3:21:20] people um and then how do we best engage them to come up with a meaningful um uh type of input so coming [3:21:28] up with that plan the second thing I think we really need is to engage a [3:21:33] designer that can illustrate more clearly what this is um I understand it [3:21:40] because I've been talking about it for a year and a half and so it's clear in my brain but it's not clear in most [3:21:46] people's brain brains and when I hear people say oh it's another lid It's Not [3:21:51] Another Not Another lid so we need to engage someone that can draw a picture of what this could actually look like um [3:21:58] or maybe build a model that might be an effective tool um eventually uh I think [3:22:03] we'd want to bring on an engineering firm to actually go deeper into the specifics um this current uh concept [3:22:11] level study says a minimum of 10 ft well is it 10t is it 12T is it 14t fet we [3:22:17] need to start getting those specifics is it 20 ft wide or is it 30 ft wide or is it somewhere in between we don't know [3:22:23] that yet so at some point we'll have to engage someone to do that but for for right now the the two predominant steps [3:22:29] are are that public participation plan and coming up with a rendering or a model to better understand what we're [3:22:35] talking about and start ask start being able to answer some of those tough questions like like for example if [3:22:41] you're on a bike how do you get through if you're in a wheelchair how do you get through um right now I think a rendering [3:22:47] or a model could illustrate that much better than just um General conversation [3:22:53] that's helpful thank you uh member rer has a question I was just going to comment I [3:22:59] think it would make sense to push this resolution back until we have the meetings with the commissions and get [3:23:05] their feedback and all of that say that again please I think it would make sense to wait on this resolution until we've [3:23:13] met and had some public engagement um before moving moving forward uh I don't agree with that I [3:23:19] think I'd like to keep pushing forward and then get figure out the public engagement strategy I mean personally I [3:23:26] don't know what others think but if I could remind folks we did do a Better Together page about a year and a half ago where we put it out to the public [3:23:33] for about six weeks um to get some initial input when we were first in that idea Gathering stage Bridges underpasses [3:23:41] tunnels lots of different ideas but that was quite some time ago that was at least a year maybe a year and a half ago [3:23:47] it's time for more reason I said we should maybe keep moving is because [3:23:52] you're about to issue a building permit for 7250 and now we've approved this project [3:23:58] to get going and I think we need to be moving with them and then we if it makes if it we [3:24:06] get to the point where it looks like it makes some sense let's figure out in more depth what the public thinks about it [3:24:12] too and I'm more comfortable with staff moving forward with us having approved it than on their own I think that they [3:24:19] they should get direction from us yeah that's a good point too member Pierce um thanks Mr Mayor um I definitely think it [3:24:27] makes sense for us to do this study um we have heard feedback whether accurate [3:24:35] or not where there's a sentiment that we haven't had public um a public process [3:24:44] for this and we're earmarking whether it's true or not uh [3:24:51] funding for something that we've not had a public process for um and so I definitely think we should do it I [3:24:57] support this um resolution the only question I had was [3:25:05] um and it reads calling for an additional study and pursuit of funding [3:25:11] um and then within one of the whereas Clauses actually does call out the two [3:25:18] tax increment financing districts and so like how should I interpret and pursuit [3:25:24] of funding in that context shared um uh [3:25:30] there's a number of different state and federal programs that fund projects like this um we might use theoretically uh [3:25:38] Tiff as a matching Grant but if we can get a state or federal fund to support [3:25:44] this rather than our local money that would certainly be our first choice um in the feasibility report there's [3:25:52] about uh there's an exhibit with maybe eight or an eight or 10 page long list [3:25:58] of different state and federal programs that this could be applicable to so we' [3:26:03] okay either hire staff or either have staff or hire a consultant to start applying to those programs and seeing [3:26:10] which ones have most Merit and and where some of the dollars might come from that's what I mean by pursue so should [3:26:17] that be called out in here like yeah so would that mean that you'd come back to us with some ideas about requesting [3:26:25] Federal funding and we' approve that yes short answer yes we've done [3:26:31] that in the past we always need need you to support those applications I think we need to Define some of the applications [3:26:39] require a better definition of exactly not exactly but what the project is it's [3:26:44] a big difference between a bridge and underpass so I think we some might require us to get a little further along in the process Mr new andorf already [3:26:52] explained but we would have to be back to get support to apply to many of these Grant programs I guess it does say [3:26:59] fun just speaking about the Tiff districts it says it could be used to [3:27:05] fund portions of it so guess in that wording you're implying [3:27:11] that they may not cover all the costs but I was just asking if we are going to [3:27:16] look for other sources of funding is there a way we would call [3:27:21] that out should call that out in here or is that you could change the language of the resolution provision there that you [3:27:28] raised as a concern you could it could say uh support the [3:27:34] additional study and expiration and potential pursuit of [3:27:41] funding because they've got to come back to us for permission to go after the funding [3:27:47] could just change the language of that last resolution paragraph to say that [3:27:52] City sta authorizing City staff to conduct additional study or [3:27:58] studies uh and the exploration of potential pursuit of [3:28:04] funding okay I like that and then let me ask one other question so let's say we [3:28:10] do the study we have our public input and we come with a whizbang underpass [3:28:19] that everybody loves when you come back um to ask for [3:28:26] funding if we word it this way this potential Pursuit would you also have to [3:28:31] come back and asked to use the pulled funds in the Tiff [3:28:37] District we would I mean for our purchasing policy when we hire a full [3:28:42] scope consultant to design this yeah that contract is going to be large enough where we need to come back to [3:28:48] either the H in the city and get your approvals to enter into that design contract and the same if we decide to [3:28:54] build it and award the Construction contract and all the other contracts that go along with it we'd be back to [3:29:00] these bodies to get your permission so you'd come back with kind of a one of your earmarked or famous slides that [3:29:09] says 2% is coming from this fund 15% is [3:29:15] Tiff we've got these grants and it totals whatever the total is we we'll [3:29:21] definitely something like that we'll definitely come back it would be Mr Mr mner because at that point it when it evolves to a real project that'll be led [3:29:28] by our engineering department and Chad's the pro at do okay yeah I like tables [3:29:34] versus pie charts but we'll bring you something okay thank you okay so um let [3:29:42] me let me try to read the language of the resolution verion here and see if then you want to make the motion member [3:29:49] Pierce um be it resolve with the city council the city Vian Minnesota supports the [3:29:55] additional study and exploration and potential pursuit of funding for the [3:30:01] France Avenue pedestrian Crossing and authoriz the city staff to conduct [3:30:06] additional studies so that the city council can determine whether or not to [3:30:11] proceed with this possible project that makes sense yes all right [3:30:18] you so moved so moved yeah a second we got a motion a second to adopt [3:30:24] resolution 20248 is modified by the motion language uh any further discussion all [3:30:32] those in favor of the uh adoption of resolution 20248 is modified say I I I [3:30:39] opposed see carries um resolution 2024 is [3:30:45] modified form is [3:30:50] adopted see in the title we should we should have fixed that [3:30:56] too you think the more important thing is the resolution provision at the [3:31:09] end okay well that uh I think we've exhausted the action [3:31:17] items and ourselves in the process [3:31:23] um so uh manager's comments assistant manager lind's comments we're ready [3:31:30] we're ready for you I got a couple here for you tonight um the quarterly financial report and the progress portal [3:31:35] updates are in your packet we did update the quarterly financial report there was [3:31:41] uh minor change with the liquor one so if you looked at it earlier look at it again because we did revise that one of [3:31:46] the things was coded to the wrong month so we corrected that um for um the [3:31:51] second item we have here is the 2025 board and commission process annual interview and selection process um right [3:31:59] now we're proposing to do the same process that you guys have done in the past there are six vacancies right now [3:32:05] for boards and commissions for the next year um so that is what we're looking to [3:32:10] um to do unless you guys want some sort of changes we'll move forward with that same [3:32:17] process good remember rer you want to tell us about your adventure last [3:32:23] week certainly and it was really good to go to Tampa meet with people go to [3:32:29] conferences um just talk to people who are really into land use regulation and nerds like that so it was great and I [3:32:36] got to tour um the Water Treatment Facility in Tampa which is this is [3:32:42] really exciting it's the only one in the United States that's using this Dutch [3:32:48] technique called six suspended ion exchange technology um where Organics [3:32:54] are removed and it's a non um nonproprietary [3:33:00] um method which makes it cheaper and it's dutch and it was really amazing to [3:33:06] go and to be there and to watch the whole process and it's different than what we do obviously cuz they're getting [3:33:13] water from the river and then you know seeing all of the debris that needs to be removed and things that they have to [3:33:20] Grapple with like big turtles and alligators and we don't need to do that but um it was really a very good [3:33:28] conference and it was the hundredy year celebration of the National League of cities so there was kind of a lot of [3:33:35] hoopla um I attended sessions on budget [3:33:40] prioritization and also there was one on using drones and um that was really kind [3:33:46] of fun talking about drone taxis and is your city Future Ready have you talked [3:33:53] about verp ports you know which is kind of a fancy thing but um anyway I guess [3:33:59] smart cities that terminology is a little bit disappearing more and we're [3:34:04] talking about future ready so that was very intriguing to me but it was really good and I want to say thank you again [3:34:11] to the taxpayers of Edina um I learned a lot and um one of the moments somebody [3:34:17] came up to me we were chatting and they said you know people don't understand you get elected to these offices and we [3:34:22] don't know anything we need training you know and I thought that was a really accurate on the nose statement so um it [3:34:31] was good and I can download reports and stuff from the meetings and so um happy [3:34:37] to share those if there's any topic that people would like to know more about um [3:34:42] so thank you good thank you thanks for that remember Jackson yes thank you Mr [3:34:48] Mayor so last week I was the guest of Cub Scout Pack 68 uh they invited me to [3:34:54] come talk about um voting and so I have a ballot that they got to vote on their [3:35:00] favorite big Park and the Aquatic Center beat out Centennial Lakes in Edinburgh [3:35:06] Park uh the boote was 1073 10 for The Aquatic Center seven for Edinburgh Park [3:35:12] and three for Centennial Lakes but so I the reason I bring this is that if if my fellow uh council members are approached [3:35:20] by schools or boy scouts or girl scouts um and would like to do this this is [3:35:26] something that that Jennifer benat uh created for me and it's useful to uh get [3:35:31] the kids input on which is their favorite park for future funding um so I I recommended it was a lot of fun and uh [3:35:38] my hosts were very gracious and I really had a nice time thank you thank you [3:35:43] member Pierce thanks Mr Mayor I you know I had um just [3:35:51] one comment I um so the discussion we had earlier about um the resident in [3:36:02] project and so there was a little Dynamic there that I wasn't comfortable with and I I wasn't [3:36:08] sure if I wanted to say anything um at the time and so I just [3:36:14] kind of chose to to wait for my comments uh but there was kind of this [3:36:21] undercurrent and it's actually on both sides what I didn't what kind of rubbed me the wrong way was that we were [3:36:29] talking about safety concerns and we were doing it with a [3:36:36] correlation to um [3:36:41] Ami and I and so I just don't know how I feel about that um and so I think one [3:36:47] comment um and and not to call anybody out we've had comments I'll say it that [3:36:54] way we've had lots of comments about um affordable housing lower [3:37:00] income um High um lots of issues I don't [3:37:06] know that anybody ever says there's high crime or anything like that but we get emails about that um but then [3:37:17] the the comment that this shouldn't be an issue was because these were 80% [3:37:23] Ami tenants and I like I just I don't know how I feel about that and so I just [3:37:30] made a note to um I actually want to talk um I guess I can say that because [3:37:37] there was a community comment right related to this so the resident that [3:37:42] made the comment I made a note that I want to have a conversation cuz I think we should I think we should be careful [3:37:51] how we talk about that and there could be some correlation between that um but [3:37:59] at the end of the day I think we should treat everybody the same and so when you asked the question and um the uh Pro the [3:38:08] um development owner came up and said well no this is our process we look at [3:38:14] you know your income your rental history and like that's what everybody should be [3:38:20] looking at and so it should have no whether it's safe or we should be [3:38:25] concerned about our kids around um developments like that that [3:38:30] are affordable and it's Noah affordability right we even been dove [3:38:35] into that a little bit um and so I definitely want to spend a little bit of time kind of understanding what that [3:38:42] sentiment is and then maybe thinking about a different way that we could lean in [3:38:49] and and kind of communicate what the intent is there um so that was one [3:38:54] comment and then just to I actually did not even know when I sent my my note [3:39:02] late the day before that I wasn't going to be here for HRA cuz I I had a cold [3:39:09] and it didn't even dawn on me that meissa wasn't there um because obviously [3:39:16] if there had been a situation where we wouldn't have had a quorum I'd have just worn a mask and I would have come but um [3:39:24] I went home for uh Tusk University's [3:39:29] homecoming and it was the hund H 100th celebration so it was this really big [3:39:36] deal um but I think I just had too much togetherness and I came [3:39:43] back T to the flu it wasn't Co but but I definitely came back and I you know [3:39:51] haven't been sick like that in years but it was good um to be there um and it [3:39:58] actually my father passed away on the 13th of November um and so it was good [3:40:03] to be back home with my sister um just prior to that um as well so all of that [3:40:11] to just say thank you for allowing me um assistant manager to not come for that [3:40:19] meeting cuz had you said no James you need to be there I'd have been there so I definitely um appreciate [3:40:26] that uh that's it thank you thank you remember yeah I only have one um La [3:40:35] I think it was last week um mayor and I were both at an event in town um for the [3:40:42] Chamber of Commerce it was their annual meeting and it was really cool because um wooden [3:40:49] Hill received an award um which was exciting to see and then I went I was there last night with my husband we were [3:40:55] in a cribbage tournament I didn't do well uh he did better than me but [3:41:00] neither of us made it to the finals um but it's just it's so great to see one [3:41:06] the expansion that they have there I think that was the first time that I'd really seen they were doing like trivia in one side and weird cribbage in the [3:41:13] back and more events on the other um and so just I don't know I enjoying wooden [3:41:19] Hill this week and just wanted to share that with everyone should check out all the addition to the space if you haven't [3:41:24] yet and vep we enjoyed our each other's company at vep I was going to let you [3:41:29] speak to that oh um so I've got that Jennifer I handed [3:41:36] that um document to you is just a covering [3:41:42] email I just wanted to touch Bas because it it's relevant to what we were just talking about tonight in terms of [3:41:48] potential funding sources for a variety of for a variety of things and director Milner knows all about this but um I was [3:41:56] part of a part of a I wouldn't call it a webinar [3:42:01] but it's a the local infrastructure Hub is something done by Bloomberg philanthropies and so they had me [3:42:07] moderate a panel of mayors that talked about projects that they had secured [3:42:13] funding for under the uh iig ja under the under Bill also the bilateral [3:42:19] bipartisan infrastructure law and so uh we got to [3:42:25] kind of say goodbye to secretary Buddha judge he's know he'll won't be too long in in [3:42:32] January where he'll be finished up and then Craig Greenberg uh was the mayor of Normal Illinois Craig Greenberg from [3:42:38] louville and then aquanetta Warren from Fontana California where the panel uh [3:42:45] but the point I wanted to make from all of this was that uh secretary Pete uh [3:42:52] said keep your foot on the gas pedal with all this activity and uh Bloomberg [3:42:59] has set up to the local infrastructure Hub and uh Chad this might be for you you want to get some folks looking at [3:43:06] this they've got a funding Pathfinder that they've set up on the on the [3:43:12] website and so you can start to think about things like let's say the uh [3:43:17] Crossing on France Avenue or um additional funding for the bridge [3:43:24] projects we got coming up or um uh you know other things that you might think [3:43:29] of that are important uh and potentially fundable through uh through the [3:43:35] bilateral infrastructure law so that's that's it for for that uh we also had a [3:43:41] call today with uh Charlie zilly from the uh bet council with regard to Southwest LRT [3:43:48] uh and just to report on a few key data points there's now been $3.1 billion do [3:43:56] of development along the line there are 9,300 built multif family [3:44:03] units in those various communities along the line and 7200 in planning with [3:44:08] another three4 of a billion dollars in multif family housing in process from [3:44:16] um Eden Prairie through minetonka Hopkins and on into Minneapolis uh so it's a $2.6 billion [3:44:23] investment is now 85% complete and then the start date is still estimated to be 2027 so I thought folks would want to [3:44:30] know about that as well and then I was in a housing meeting uh a couple days [3:44:35] ago over at the league we've been working with some of the legislators on this these issues around [3:44:42] um housing affordability and and also uh housing production and the builders housing [3:44:50] first uh indicated that there's no nation National Data that show you what do you think the average age is for the [3:44:56] first time home buyer now pretty close 38 38 for the firsttime home buyer at [3:45:05] average age now that's that's high I think very [3:45:11] high I think a lot of people were buying houses in late [3:45:17] 20s the 22 you know yeah so it it's becoming apparent [3:45:25] that um more more and more people are going to be in apartments because it takes longer and longer to build the [3:45:30] equity to be able to buy a house so those those are kind of the some of the things that popped up this week for me I [3:45:38] thought you might uh benefit from or enjoy hearing about um and that's it I [3:45:43] think uh anybody feel like making a motion to adjourn so moved [3:45:50] again all right who made that motion to adj member I did as fast M all right [3:45:58] here we go we got a motion of second to adjourn the meeting of the city council uh this 19th day of November [3:46:07] 2024 any further discussion all those in favor of adjournment say I I I oppos carried you stand [3:46:13] adjourned e