[0:00] is that Are we recording very good uh well everybody uh welcome [0:06] to the city council work session for the city of Edina it is Tuesday April 1st 2025 and it's 5:32 p.m and I'm going ask [0:15] our clerk Sharon Allison to call the meeting to order i mean I call the meeting order i call the role excuse me [0:20] council member Agu here council member Jackson here council member Pierce here council member Risser here mayor Harland [0:27] here uh we've got two meeting topics this evening one is an update on the [0:32] Burton Avenue Highway 100 interchange project update for projects we're doing with uh the state the county and the [0:40] city and we've got some county folks with us today to cover the second topic [0:45] uh or actually just talk about the first one as well but be be with us later on for the library conversation and then [0:52] we're going to talk about assessing services which we'll have some input on as well from the county if we have [0:58] questions i think uh I'll let manager Neil lead that conversation but I think first we'll turn to Director Milner on [1:05] the report out from the uh meeting over at the state legislature today and give [1:11] us an update on the Highway 100 interchange project yeah thank you Mayor Council vernon Avenue and Highway 100 [1:17] interchange that's the title you're going to see on all of our branded materials going out here and I'll give you an update on where we're at with the [1:23] project um just to remind what are the project goals improve safety and mobility of all users create those new [1:29] separated pedestrian routes improve traffic operations consolidate all those access points on Highway 100 improve [1:35] that connect connectivity between residential and commercial areas of the district limit construction impacts [1:41] that's really why we partnered with the county uh to create greater funding efficiency by combining those two [1:46] projects and then when we're all done enhance that economic viability with all the improved access for both walkers and [1:52] bikers and the traveling public by automobiles so this is the project we've seen this map quite a few times over the [1:59] last two three years um starting on the lefth hand side is the Vernon Avenue bridge that was the original county [2:05] project um that bridge is due for replacement and then as the county was doing the design it was going to impact [2:11] uh operations right up to the Highway 100 bridge and we know we had a lot of things we wanted to do within the district and if they were using federal [2:17] dollars we couldn't do anything to create those connections with pedestrians and cyclists and improve traffic on the highway under bridge so [2:23] the city went out for regional solicitation and we got $4.2 million and added it and combined it in one big [2:29] project so the county has been a great partner as we kind of delayed their project and combined them and and worked [2:34] together on that um but this is the project um and then when we get the ramps done there's potential opportunity [2:41] there for some city space right municipal campus fire station something tied to this side so we're continuing [2:47] those conversations with Mindot because it is MDOT rightaway in that location so just the timeline we were [2:54] federally authorized in July we were hoping to go up for bids advertise for bids in August and I repeatedly told the [3:02] community and the council that the railroad is holding us up because of that easement agreement and continue to hold us up and we finally got uh that [3:09] approved in January early February of 2025 so it was months of delay but we [3:14] are we did advertise we did open bids in March we got great uh two bids from Ames [3:20] Construction and CS McCroen the numbers were right at the estimates and we're going to be asking the council to award [3:26] a contract at the next council meeting the city's going to hold that entire contract and we're going to work with our partners to be reimbursed for that [3:33] work as it happens um but you can see construction was delayed we were hoping to start uh uh by January and it's now [3:40] at the soonest April 21st with an award on April 16th we'll see if the contractor wants to try to get through [3:46] all those contracts and insurance and all that stuff to really start in the 21st and still do uh road closure [3:54] notifications at least a week in advance so we'll see the exact date of of the start date but we don't know i keep [3:59] saying late April early May continuing to talk with them and see what that date is but they did say they did bid it with [4:05] a November 15th 2025 substantial completion to have the re roads reopen [4:11] Vernon and 50th because we really want to get them reopened for the holiday season both the Grand View District and [4:17] the 50th in France district are going to be slightly impacted from all the road closures and then the spring and the 26 [4:23] will come back and close out some items so we're happy to hear that Ames is willing to use that schedule and they're [4:29] confident they can perform with the big asterisks of the railroad and private utilities but private utilities are [4:34] mostly out of the way and railroad knows it's coming so it should be uh we should be able to keep it on track unless some [4:40] unknown thing comes it's a pretty remarkable time frame really that work [4:45] done yep so you know I was thinking about the um 169 project a couple years [4:51] ago it seems like Mindot had the bridge built off site and then brought it in [4:57] and and then put it together on site is that what's happening here to expedite things um no it's still beam [5:03] construction built on site beam I mean beams are built off site and brought in trucked in mindot has night closures so [5:10] any removals will happen at night and when the beams go across I 100 again that'll be a night with cranes and get [5:16] that stuff up as quickly as possible but it's a typical construction methods here uh for this [5:21] project so then I just want to share a little bit about the management of traffic right that's the biggest concerns of you as a council the [5:28] residents and businesses so stage one is really taking down the bridges so you [5:33] can see the big Xouts and that's all closed so on the left hand side is V interlocking and Vernon that [5:39] intersection will be open for the entire project but it'll be built in phases so [5:44] that's a good thing this whole area is going to be closed they got to flag the railroad take the bridge down over the [5:50] highway at night but these ramps on and off ramps are the key to our success I think for the traveling public they're [5:56] going to be open for a majority of the project so you can take if you're coming from St louis Park southbound you can still get off the ramp and go down and [6:03] take that little ramp it's just off this picture by Hilltop hit Arcadia and then everybody will take a left at the [6:09] roundabout you can go left or right depending where you're going if it's to towards 50th of France or city hall [6:14] versus Grand View you can do that maneuver if you're at city hall this northbound ramp will still be open so [6:20] you can get to St louis Park that way and the ramps off of Graange will still be open too so yeah and interrupt me [6:25] with questions i know this last time when we were doing our roundabout construction we had some issues with [6:32] just signage and communication let's take all of that um because I I remember [6:37] even driving been being like "How do I get to 50th of France is that completely closed?" So as much communication as we [6:43] can include please yep we asked Mandot if we could do special signs that say Grand View businesses and [6:49] 50th and France district out on the highway so north to here and they're allowing us to put some specific signs [6:55] like that out on the highway and then when you get off it's going to be more 50th of France Grand View and signage all over the place to get people to [7:01] those two main business areas awesome thank you so this is kind of stage one [7:07] stage two is like stage 2 A through F and it's really because of this Chad [7:13] cloud when you go through the stages can you just stamp it with like a time frame [7:18] oh yeah yep so roughly early late April early May to late summer early fall so [7:25] this stage right here is the majority of the project and this one so they're [7:30] basically at the same time same time okay basically at the same time so this is going to be starting right away but [7:36] then that this is that construction of the interlock in intersection with Vernon in stages but allowing traffic to [7:42] get through there we actually added some work to make the uh liquor store ADA compliant getting into our Grand View [7:48] liquor store so there's going to be a couple week closure where they might do some stuff inside the store while we do the outside work and sidewalks and [7:55] entryway there um but for the majority of the project the ramps will be open late summer early fall then we [8:01] transition to this and this is where the more impacts are going to be when the ramps are closed other than the ones off [8:08] of Graange over here you can still get on northbound and off coming northbound but this detour here you're going to [8:13] have to go all the way down the 62 do one exit another exit is the official detour but you could take the Benton [8:19] Avenue exit and take either frontage road coming up the sides so there'll be like local access only could take that [8:26] we know people that are familiar are going to do it and that's fine we'll continue to work with it but this is a much shorter so this is late summer [8:33] early fall okay uh you know month eightweek construction and then the last [8:39] phase which is probably that October time frame to get done by November 15th is that last little piece of that [8:45] off-ramp to get onto the the new bridge here and that's where the this will be [8:50] closed and the detour is going to send you up to Excelsier Boulevard and come back down that way so that's the one [8:56] where it'll be signed and notified that you just have to there's no other way to get for northbound traffic here can we [9:02] do also a sign by 62 i guess that wasn't I'm just thinking [9:10] right cuz I guess the only other way would be 62 to France if you're getting to like 50th in France or even Yeah [9:16] that's a long way out of the way probably too big we can always adjust if we're seeing things that aren't working [9:21] okay or if you see things so yeah so this is the last phase and then everything will be open again by that [9:27] November 15th deadline is what the is in the contract any questions on traffic [9:33] before I flip i have one really quick Chad [Music] [9:38] why do you call it 3B versus like stage four is it happening at the same time no [9:43] it was just what the consultant put on their staging plan one two 2 A through 2F and then 3 [9:50] AB any issues on the Eden Avenue bridge [9:55] um that's always going to be open that'll be always open yep people will be able to use that going back and forth all the time all the time open all the [10:02] time that on-ramp there will be open people can go right through past city hall here like last year for majority of [10:09] it so working with Britney and Jennifer and [10:14] others in our communications and marketing groups we're having a very robust communication plan we've been [10:20] meeting the last few weeks and we want to hit residents that are right adjacent to the project we want to hit residents [10:25] in a bigger geographic area the businesses in the Grand View and 50th in France are key uh partners in this and [10:32] then other impacted individuals so all the things listed are things we're going to do multiple times [10:39] um press releases Friday reports i'm starting an online public online project [10:44] meeting every two weeks Thursdays at 11 edina.govina Edina or Highway 100 talks [10:51] and you can just sign in on any browser be a virtual meeting come and listen ask [10:57] questions if nobody's there great i'll be sitting there by myself but first one is this week so we'll see how it goes [11:02] because I don't have an exact schedule of course we got the better together website social media emails all the [11:07] other things we're going to use interactive maps we're trying to make a media packet that we can give maps to [11:13] businesses that they can print and use um certain answers to questions that if they want to blast out on their own [11:19] social media they could use some of the language we're using but with their tone right as a business we're going to blast [11:24] out a bunch of stuff um we're looking at advertisements and papers in different areas at Jerry's potentially there so [11:30] lots of different tools we just need some hard dates from the contractor to set those all those things in motion um [11:36] as we move forward so nothing has been broadly communicated uh we've done [11:42] Friday reports we've done the website for the last two or three years i've got an email list of 85 businesses at France [11:48] i've got another 20 at Grand View and then I have another 50 just residents that I know are interested they all got [11:54] my email in last week inviting them to this weekly meeting okay i'm just that include like the tentative we're getting [12:00] close kind of so far that was just come to this meeting and learn more basically I'm going to give the same presentation [12:06] to them on Thursday okay they know it's coming three weeks away right they know [12:11] it's coming we've been getting a lot of emails a lot of phone calls of when Okay uh this is coming i would say we've done [12:17] a really good job of telling people where to go to get the latest updates [12:22] for the past year because we thought it was going to start in January so since that big front page [12:28] article in addition in November we've had monthly um updates in the senior [12:35] center newsletter the times whenever we talk in Friday report about it we're always driving people back to that [12:41] better together page we weren't even sure for a while when we would get it back on the council agenda so okay thank you i I think [12:48] that's that's pretty good it's not solving the business's needs yet because they need to know the exact date and [12:54] I've been down at 50th and France three times at their meetings we've met with the Grand View businesses in the fall so [13:01] we've been doing a lot of reach out the county did a lot of reach reach out when the rightaway stuff was going for the businesses right there like Dean's [13:09] Washurn Mcgravy Holiday Caribou those were directly impacted by easements so they've been aware of this for years [13:15] aren't we reaching out to the schools y's on there dina schools we got a whole [13:21] list of of it was a 17page thing that Britney had put together with all the [13:26] different groups so they're on there yeah [13:32] great funding so this is the funding breakdown based on the low bid that we [13:37] received from Ames Construction on March 13th first column is total estimated project costs there is 11.2 million of [13:45] federal funding 7 million was secured by Henipin County and 4.2 by the city then [13:51] there's all the other funding sources so there's another $16.7 million 5.4 is [13:57] from the county and 11.2 is for the city and then 300,000 direct cash from mind [14:04] so the total project and this is all in with engineering financing all that stuff is 28.2 million and the city is on [14:11] the hook for 15.5 and the county's got 12.4 million we already have that 4.2 [14:17] secured and then I'll show you the other funding sources here in a table and the breakdown of that 11.2 [14:23] and I know we asked this last time but we're not concerned of any federal funding going away for this project no [14:29] we understood it's still um it's it's ready to go we're ready to go soon as we start building we're going to ask for [14:35] that money first get that in the building it can be pass through from Exactly it's state right yep it's [14:41] already can't think of the term we'll probably think of it here in a little bit but we keep seeing that's secured [14:46] and ready to go the agreements already so this is our funding uh plan our [14:52] recommended funding plan that you'll consider at April 16th uh we have of course municipal state aid dollars and [14:57] this is just the city portion of that 11.2 you'll see the city debt city bonding of 3 million at your council [15:03] retreat that was four so we did lower that by a million that's going to help some of your other budget discussions here long term and then we have the [15:10] water utility sanitary sewer storm sewer utility those are based on the bids on [15:16] uh what we thought was relevant so that's a million dollars of funding through our utility funds that are in the CIP then we got PAX which is [15:23] sidewalks for 200,000 and the electrical for lighting our own operating budget on electrical 200,000 we got Centennial [15:30] Lakes TIFF at 250,000 this does qualify for that funding there mindot at the [15:37] time when we were scoping out the project didn't have an area manager or an area engineer so I was kind of on my [15:42] own trying to work with Mindot um and they did not come to the table for funding but then they got a new west [15:48] area manager and made a nice request and they are going to do all construction services they're going to do testing [15:54] inspection surviving um everything west east of the Vernon [16:00] Avenue bridge so they're they do everything within mind rightway which is the majority of this project mindot rightway goes right up to that Vernon [16:06] bridge we're going to hire our consultant TK8DA to be an owner rep and inspect stuff the county is going to [16:12] have a construction rep out there all the time um but they are basically when we calculated about 700,000 of inind [16:18] services that they're putting towards this project that we don't have to hire a consultant and split that cost for the city portion or the county portion and [16:25] then we were successful this fall on a local partnership program grant through Mindot for a million dollars um so this [16:32] is the funding source as of today like the mayor mentioned I was at the state capital this morning with Representative [16:38] Julie Green and we testified on this project we have a request in um it's got a bill and a number and it's moving [16:44] through the process and we're requesting $5.3 million we secure any amount of [16:49] money that could help this financing thing and then for me I think we'd start to look at probably that city bonding or [16:54] municipal state aid and how we reduce some of those numbers if we do get funding there was $2 million in the in [17:00] the bill last year but of course that didn't something got passed at the end of the session last year we'd welcome $2 [17:05] million for this project if we could get it but right now the ask is 5.3 million [17:10] could we Can you go back could we use more tiff dollar unspent tiff how much [17:16] unspent tiff could be applied to this project that'd be a question for Bill Norf so we can figure that out then cuz [17:23] we have we have more than this in the Centennial Lakes TIFF and that's the only one that would that [17:29] could one could not be used at the time where this one was the most flexible [17:34] back in the day and the boundaries of it were nearly the entire city but okay but [17:40] we could use more that I would like to have that be under consideration and to [17:46] get some more information about the maximum amount that And I would say on the 16th you know [17:53] this is a a plan or recommendation we'd want you to award a contract we can move these numbers around during the project [18:00] right we don't have to have it because if we get money that's going to be after we award a contract to state level then [18:05] we could adjust this table as we go through the construction why would you want to use more tip for this i'd like [18:11] to avoid bonding if we could or really reduce it as much as possible um [18:19] we could yeah we can bring in that number on the 16th and just say we could do up to this number [18:27] i think that talltail tip might be dedicated to affordable housing i think that's right i think yeah this was the [18:33] only one that he felt could be applied here just because of the when it was initially constructed district with the [18:40] rules in place at the time i don't know what the balance is in that [18:46] we can get I'll bring that on the 16th when we come back that was it i was just going to say if there's any other [18:51] questions but you'll see this award of a contract on the 16th of April so I've [18:56] got two questions um one is what is the timeline on those two um on-ramps on the [19:05] west side uh these yeah is it going to be merged [19:11] into one on-ramp southbound oh what's it look like afterwards well you know [19:17] because we talked about I'm closing that on-ramp off of an Eden one near Warner [19:22] that's the highest crash rate in town versus part of this it's not it's [19:28] not okay we're just going to do it separately we already have approvals because we were going to close it with the Arcadia roundabout okay but we knew [19:34] this project was coming first with the county and we said if we close it that'd be pretty not real smart to close it [19:40] when it would be such a benefit to traffic operations so that's why we delayed closing it most likely 2026 [19:47] unless this goes really well and and I can get a contractor that's willing to do it so So that that will be done when [19:52] this project is completely over we want all these open first before we close that on excellent and then the city [19:58] space um how are the negotiations with Mindot on um on how we transfer that [20:03] land to the city if possible we've had an initial discussion about a year ago and they said once you're under [20:08] construction come back okay because they're like there's no point unless unless it's happening so we're going to [20:14] get this thing open i see more conversations probably this summer on how to handle it okay great and if if uh [20:20] the other caveat with that is in the bill that's being considered there's a line number B just says dedicate this [20:27] property to the city okay so that would just direct MDOT to do this okay so if we do get funding we're hoping that [20:32] stays in there excellent so then it's just done all right have you had any discussions uh from an [20:40] engineering standpoint on uh relative to the city space on what might be the appropriate time to think [20:45] about moving those historic buildings i think that's a discussion down the [20:50] road with city hall with all the stuff already talked about that at the retreat we pushed that off four or five years i [20:57] think it's a much broader discussion of what is the space can those buildings stay there i might that might be the [21:03] space that if we build a municipal campus it might make sense because there expanded parking potentially so no [21:09] discussion on moving those with the council at this point i know we'd have to have a broader conversation on but [21:14] I'm just wondering if internally talked about what the appropriate timing would be because they could I mean they could [21:21] stay there they could go down to the mil pond they could go to Arnest acres i mean there's a lot of things to talk [21:26] about comes up every once in a while but we haven't had serious discussions [21:32] from a historical perspective moving them would make sense they would have more historical accuracy if they were [21:39] put i think so too i think to me the place they'd look the best would be down by the mill i don't know if there's room [21:46] down there well for the green and there's parking there too [21:54] uh Chad can I ask a question about what's in in this view where are we doing much with underground utilities in [22:00] here with water sewer utilities yeah we're actually uh making a water main loop under the highway to make a better our network better we're doing sewer [22:06] upgrades and then a lot of storm water to meet the wershed permitting stuff but not a lot of utilities well you can see [22:13] we didn't have when you look at the dollars it's about a million dollars of utility stuff so can you point out again [22:20] in this drawing how the non-motorized movements are accomplished yeah we got big wide 10 foot wide sidewalks on both [22:27] sides both sides today there's that one little narrow one on the north side of the bridge with a big high curb you feel [22:33] like you're going to get hit by mirrors and everything else that go by at a high rate so big wide sidewalks on both sides [22:39] connecting to what we built last year and what we built in 2019 over here at this intersection the gap still is this [22:47] east side of Vernon Avenue that we're still looking at probably applying for regional solicitation again county's got [22:53] a cost participation program i just talked to him about yesterday that we're considering if we could partner because [22:58] they also got a payment rehab so could we use their payment rehab for us to move a curb and get a sidewalk there's a [23:04] lot of discussions there yet um but yeah new APS automated push [23:10] buttons for all pedestrians crossing this interchange dual left turns in each direction for vehicles to be able to get [23:17] off the bridge and on the highway in a manner for now and in the future [23:23] what's the like plot of land that cuts diagonally that looks like interlocking [23:29] continued this probably an old It's probably an old [23:34] right we just pull our map from Hannip County mapping and I'm sure that's been [23:40] vacated and now part of parcels right this is a business and business top so [23:46] mold line work that get put in this graphic looks like it was intended to be [23:53] interlock and continued yeah was it ever i wonder [23:59] it might have been at one point in time yeah well this was supposed to be 169 and 100 crossing here so that's why it's [24:06] built the way it was i wonder if that has something to do with it interesting a lot of changes in this area which [24:14] Okay that's all I got for Yeah too late for this one but there's still I think a [24:19] non-motorized land bridge over the top would have been great well it's still a consideration right we built bridge over [24:25] at Grand View and the idea was could we will this this off-ramp by Hilltop that [24:30] could be vacated y we have that space and go over the highway and connect right to the front door city hall be a [24:36] nice connection between the two but future consideration still in the Grand View guiding documents [24:43] so nothing here precludes city status on the cross pedestrian bridge we're in [24:49] design yeah we're in design we're going to go for bids late this year early next year and build it next year okay yep it [24:55] is really weird to see capacity of people at 900 like with those signs up [25:01] on the they did a analysis just added it because of we were concerned about the [25:06] protest that was coming and how many people that bridge could support so we they did a quick analysis and said it [25:11] can support 900 people on they see a few hund i don't think I've ever seen more than 50 people like [25:19] 900 people that's what it could support well now we know yep okay thank you all [25:27] right thanks All right Scott sure um next topic is a [25:34] discussion and maybe uh questions concerns that we can answer for the council on the uh the concept of of [25:42] transitioning our assessing services from a local uh city provided service to [25:47] a county uh provided service uh it was pretty clear from last year's budget [25:53] process that the c the council was interested in looking at um service [25:59] levels and and and uh financing alternatives uh for the upcoming budget [26:04] process the one we're in now that would reduce uh our rate of growth the trajectory of our property tax uh levy [26:12] so in order to do that you know we've looked at three uh we've looked at three main areas where we can do that from [26:18] this capital spending its debt service and its operational spending uh our capital spending uh we have a lot of we [26:25] have a lot of uh options for and we've presented some of those to you and we we have not completely decided on that but [26:32] but some final decisions will be coming to the council uh for review and approval this summer uh our debt service [26:39] is is what it is um we're going to pay our debt and I think that's every that's what everybody wants us to do so we're [26:45] going to continue to work on that and we'll keep you informed but the operational piece of it uh are things [26:51] that are really just picking up now and that we're what we're looking at we began to look at the assessing services [26:57] really because uh there was some some action in this area in 2024 [27:03] uh where the county was beginning to be more active in taking on some assessing and really um uh providing that [27:11] assessment uh providing those services to smaller communities um with no additional with no additional service [27:18] costs so incorporating all of that all the costs for their assessing uh into their levy and so that's that's what's [27:25] uh uh part of the transition costs that we have talked to uh the county about uh [27:30] the county was active in getting the uh big eight I guess they call them uh the [27:36] big eight cities in Henipin County that provide their own assessing services together uh we had a couple of meetings [27:42] uh that David Huff was kind enough to come out to Minnotonka to do so that was that was nice David um but we had a [27:49] chance to to as cities to sit sit around the table and say who's interested in doing this you know is is anyone [27:56] interested in doing it um because we were having the budget discussion at that time and I think council members [28:02] had heard uh uh information about assessing I told uh our county partners [28:08] that we were interested in doing it maple Grove said the same the other the other six uh communities I think had [28:15] lower some had no interest and some had just wanted to know what was happening so we're we're um uh I don't know what's [28:23] happening with them right now but I know Maple Grove and and a diner are kind of right about the same spot their council [28:29] is going to be looking at this uh I think next week um because we are uh [28:34] David has asked us to to let the county know if we were uh interested in [28:40] pursuing this transition on or before May 1st so tonight we wanted to have an [28:46] opportunity to talk to talk to you about this uh to hear your questions we have [28:51] subject matter experts that are here tonight uh David Huff and Dan Rogan from Henipin County uh Sheila Stozinger our [28:57] city assessor is here tonight uh we want to answer your questions there's no decision for you to make tonight um but [29:04] there is a decision that you can make um at the next meeting on on April 16th i [29:10] have a I'm going to ask Sheila and Dan and Dave to come up to the table here i [29:15] think it' be easier for conversation purposes i I have a question um because [29:21] all of this is um about Edina residents and reducing [29:27] costs for them and I want to know if this is simply um meaning that instead [29:33] of paying the city for assessment services they're going to be paying the county for assessment services and [29:39] there's going to be no net financial benefit for the Edina resident [29:48] we expect to not levy for the cost of providing our own assessing services at [29:54] some stage right i think it's a it's a partial year's worth of of levy savings [29:59] eventually it becomes more than a partial year it comes closer to what the what the total might be um Henipin [30:07] County has to decide whether it needs to whether it has enough excess capacity to provide services to us with their [30:13] existing staff or if they're going to uh increase their levy to to cover that [30:19] cost as well does this mean the taxpayer will be paying the same amount but the [30:25] money will ultimately just be going to the county instead of the city [30:30] can I before you answer that can I let me just level set i don't think that the [30:37] way you framed the question was the original ask and so we may not all be on [30:43] the same page so I just want to restate what I was asking for and it's [30:50] not in principle i think the work that we're doing is lowering the costs for [30:58] the residents but that's not the lens we're looking through so the the ask I had was [31:06] the original general levy was projected to be 13% and I [31:13] said and feel free to agree or disagree I'm just using that pronoun because I'm [31:19] the one speaking so I said we need to have budget [31:25] stabilization and I felt like we should target a 5 to7 million reduction in the [31:31] general levy in that general levy it uh the way residents ex [31:39] experience that is the tax rate on their property taxes and so I say it like to me it's [31:47] really important to say it that way because we're having a broader [31:52] conversation about making the costs of our services [31:58] lower and so I say that because we may have a service that was originally part [32:04] of the general levy that we pull out of the levy and now it's going to be allocated and each resident will have a [32:13] share of that allocation to me that a good example of that is if we're going [32:18] to start charging credit card fees rather than the city covering those fees [32:25] now the resident will pay that fee if they use a credit card to pay for [32:33] charges and so that's a that money comes out of the general [32:38] levy which shrinks the cost of government but in [32:43] the example I just gave the allocation back to the resident their cost may go [32:49] up and so I have not thought about any of [32:54] the options that we're looking at only through the lens of each [33:00] resident my focus was government is this and we're trying to get government [33:07] government expenses to be something less and we gave a target i was on the back [33:13] of the napkin i said "Well I think it's 5 to7 million but I'm not sure." And so [33:19] then city staff did the analysis came back and they said they think it's four and a half to hit the target of being [33:26] under 10% for the general levy can I ask a clarification on that [33:33] because last year we were looking at 13% increase and by going down below 10 now [33:39] we're looking at a 17% increase for the budget that we're working on now is that correct do I am I remembering that [33:46] correctly no one is proposing a 17% increase but that was that was the the [33:51] anticipated um warning on the original chart we had 93 and 17 that was if we do [33:58] nothing to change our scope of services given existing union contracts and and [34:04] anticipated inflation that's what would happen that's what would be required to pay for those costs in in that scenario [34:12] but that was a it was a 17% number I guess as opposed 13% was last year and [34:18] because we pushed it below 10% then the anticipated rate of increase if nothing [34:24] else happened was 17% um and um and and I I also want to if [34:31] you don't mind just qualify what you said a little bit we're shrinking the size of the city government yes so the [34:37] general levy the general levy of the city yes the general levy property taxes [34:43] of the city government so that just a very specific um goal that we have right [34:48] that's right thank you and that point go ahead i think it is for me an important [34:55] lens to apply of are we in certain situations [35:00] just taking it out of one pocket and putting it in the other it doesn't mean it doesn't still meet the objective but [35:07] I still think as we're considering multiple options it's a fair question to ask you know does this literally take $5 [35:15] out of city taxes and just put $5 more into [35:20] county taxes I think is a reasonable question because even if it doesn't even [35:26] if it would still move the needle on the general levy we might elect to choose other options then that have a different [35:33] impact on residents and so I think both both are valid um but I appreciate the [35:40] clarification and the question for me would be if we do that because I [35:45] agree in the context then the question is how are those costs if they do move [35:52] how are they allocated right what is the allocation method is it and I'm totally [35:59] making this up is it the bigger your house the larger your share is it you [36:05] know some other factor we don't know that but that would be the question I would ask because that's how you would [36:12] then know what is the impact on a smaller level but my point was that isn't the [36:19] lens we were looking through is the specific a specific resident when we [36:25] started this yeah but I think to Julie's question right and and I guess this is [36:31] then the question for the county but is it a direct and I'm making up the number [36:37] value but you take five away from city and it increases county by five or is it [36:43] being spread across the entirety of Henipin County and therefore the direct Edina resident impact is less than five [36:53] and so just layer on here too think about it different ways as we ask staff [36:59] to look at those budget targets one of the things that we asked them to look at or think [37:07] about was moving assessing to the county because it looked like an opportunity to [37:13] a mechanism for being able to meet those budget targets yes julie's question is [37:18] does it really do that right and I do want to say thank you Kate because uh [37:24] not only did you echo or reinforce what I was saying you added the other [37:29] concerns that I had because you know we don't want to just be going check we [37:34] lowered the budget but we're just transferring you know to a different pocket and then it doesn't make us look [37:40] really hard at how we could actually do savings the other thing is my understanding is doing this transition [37:47] will incur costs so that's another factor too so thank you and I think your [37:52] point of view is different though right like you and James might have different goals but we're both kind of going for [37:58] the the big let's let's reduce the budget in a meaningful way but we shouldn't have different [38:05] goals because we're all giving direction to the city right and so in all clarity [38:13] that's the only thing I'm talking about is we've given them the direction at [38:18] this level to reduce the cost of the general levy of the city of [38:27] Edine that is the direction that we gave and so then when we look through the lens of [38:34] evaluating it I also think about well how are these costs allocated i since [38:40] Scott got emails hey I'm not quite sure I understand this if it used to cost this do we have fixed costs right or [38:48] variable costs that now we don't have anymore so I'm trying to understand the same thing uh but it's on the table [38:56] because at this level right if we move it it comes out [39:01] of the general levy and so the cost appears to be less your question is is [39:09] the cost if it switches buckets is the cost to the resident still going to be [39:14] the same or increase and I don't know that well one thing we do know is that [39:20] because of the way you do your budgeting last year we were told that we were [39:25] going to help pay for everybody else's assessing in the county in addition to having our own assessing department [39:31] because just as as a function of budgeting so we we thought inherent in [39:37] that was an opportunity potentially to save some money so mayor and council [39:43] members my name is Dave F i'm the head of county administrator i'm joined by Dan Rogan as assistant county [39:48] administrator over resident services uh if I can provide some background history [39:53] so for approximately 37 years Henipin County did or has provided assessment [40:00] services for many many of the cities in Henipin County in fact last year we were [40:06] doing 30 separate 37 separate agreements uh the majority of those cities 34 are [40:14] under 30,000 in population there's a specific statute and I think it's referenced in in the memo that was [40:21] provided to you that provides the county can go ahead and do the assessment services for those jurisdictions eight [40:28] as Scott described the big eight have been independent uh there were three [40:33] cities over year over the years Plymouth uh the city of Richfield and the city of [40:39] Brooklyn Center that contracted with us as well and so up until this year those [40:44] cities paid for their assessment services so we would go to every city council we would negotiate 37 agreements [40:51] uh try to create consistency and and staff appropriately so there were [40:57] discussions conversations that were had last year mr rogan Josh Hogan our county [41:02] assessor director of assessing and myself and then with commissioners as to uh it's very timeconuming laborious we [41:10] wanted consistency so we went to the board uh last year and proposed that the [41:16] county would absorb the 5.4 million that was then being paid in fees uh by those [41:23] cities to the county and we built it into our tax base our operational budget [41:29] our budget is $3 billion our operating budget supported by property tax and [41:34] capital supported by property tax is a billion so a levy point is equivalent to [41:39] about $10 million so uh we received a lot of uh I received and Mr rogan but I [41:46] in particular received a lot of feedback from the big eight cities as to the fairness of this [41:53] because now uh we absorb 5.4 for and all cities all residents all 400,000 excuse [41:59] me parcels in the county were paying their share to support the county's operating budget so we met on December [42:06] 17th at Ridgedale and and all city managers were there and we had quite a [42:12] dialogue and I followed up on that uh with a memo and then we had another meeting uh earlier this year and then I [42:19] followed up with another memo and as as Mr neil pointed out I made a proposal uh [42:26] as to whether or not we can go ahead and collaborate and integrate and follow the [42:31] same model we have followed with the 37 cities and that would be that we would uh absorb uh the property assessment for [42:41] those cities interested that we would uh take on that additional work [42:47] understanding we would uh recruit we would hire and as I've represented we [42:52] would pay special attention to making sure the assessors currently working for a city would interview and get a a great [42:59] opportunity uh we would use intergovernmental transfers to hire folks that uh there would be no charge [43:06] after we had settled in that and first year and I my conversation with Mr neil [43:12] yesterday uh two cities have interested have shown interest and you're one of [43:17] them maple Grove is the other uh a third city potentially could be absorbed in [43:22] 2026 into this model uh as to the the details that all needs to be work worked [43:29] out but my commitment is we would hire those folks that wanted to apply and and [43:35] went through and had the credentials to do this and we're we know your folks our our assessor staff's very supportive of [43:42] of individuals and understand their their capacity and their abilities uh the uh the understanding would be [43:51] that we would build that into uh those hires into our our operating budget uh [43:57] as to is it a one for one i think council member your analogy was $5 to $5 [44:02] or five to five no we know that we can do this uh with fewer staff when you look at the eight cities Minneapolis is [44:09] one of them minnetonka Eden Prairie Bloomington uh Brooklyn Park Brooklyn Park Adina who [44:18] who am I forgetting st louis Park you said Eden Prairie uh when we look at [44:23] their combined FTEES their combined costs we believe that we can do it and we've we've done proformas uh with fewer [44:30] staff and in respect to the question this is not cost shifting it would be [44:36] built into the county's levy but the county levies on 400,000 parcels so the [44:41] impact there will be an impact but it'll be slight uh as to the specifics uh I [44:47] only know that two have shown interest as to others uh as as Mr neil pointed [44:52] out there was some uh respectful no and then there were others that were flatout no and others maybe uh so [45:01] uh I I think if we're going to do this we're prepared to do it uh we will work [45:06] collaboratively with you and your team and I understand this is very challenging uh but it would not be a one [45:12] for one we we have done many collaborative things with the jurisdictions in in the county we've [45:19] done collaborative things many of you probably have seen or aware of the medical examiner's office in Minnitonka [45:24] there's a joint effort with Dakota and Scott County we do public safety answering point back in the 90s your 911 [45:31] dispatch that was a conversation our board participated in and invited cities [45:36] to join free of charge other than the integration costs the hardware costs that may exist public health's another [45:42] area where we do uh the vast majorities in the in the county the public health [45:49] services so uh we're we're ready to do this and answer questions that you have so thank you for letting us participate [45:59] we will get questions from residents and I totally get how you can't answer you [46:06] know and say "Oh it'll be $310 or something like that." But help [46:12] me understand when you say fewer staff are we talking like 25% fewer [46:21] mr rogan will answer that oh I I think it really it obviously depends upon how many uh cities want to come on and when [46:28] they come on so it's really hard to answer that that question um with any specificity but right now with the with [46:36] our levy spread across the county you know we have eight cities that are are [46:41] um also paying for their their own services so if we if only two come on board then it's the the increase in our [46:49] cost is going to be you know several million dollars so maybe $2 million of [46:54] of cost and so $2 million spread across the entire county of additional costs [47:01] comes down to whatever that number is i don't you know like if it's $10 million for a levy point it's it's maybe 20.2% [47:08] of a a levy point uh in the organization so when we absorb the 37 it's 5.4 for [47:14] obviously uh eight cities the largest cities in the county it would be a significant amount of money that uh [47:21] would be saved to those cities we in turn would have to determine uh the number of staff to staff up i think the [47:28] the cities that join earlier uh from the standpoint of us building capacity I mean there's an advantage I would look [47:34] at from the staffing perspective as this settles down and works itself through we find out what workloads will be uh the [47:41] other thing I wanted to point out is that uh many of the cities uh provide space and we staff in those city halls [47:49] uh and are available uh to not only uh staff but to residents to answer [47:54] questions uh that uh it's not 100% remote uh and if Adina does decides to [48:02] take this approach and uh is open to providing staff space we certainly would [48:08] do that uh and it could be a seamless us a relatively seamless transition [48:14] i so I I um I think that the [48:20] question that you're asking I actually think about that on a [48:27] much higher level than just this service so I think across all the changes that [48:35] we are proposing to make we should present back to council [48:42] and I I sent an email on this earlier here's what our cost would have [48:47] been here's what the cost is here's the allocation so that you understand as a [48:55] resident the changes that we've recommended we've made to government [49:00] uh to the local to the levy the city [49:08] because those are all different right and so you have to look at the aggregate [49:13] and so I very much want to do exactly what member wrestler said but we need to do that for everything and I'm going to [49:21] repeat what member Jackson said which sometimes you agree with sometimes [49:28] you don't mentor so I'm probably going to say it wrong again but yes we [49:36] presented a potential 13% increase we [49:41] said that was too high city came back with [49:46] recommendations to make that 9.4 4 I think something like that right that's [49:52] what it is now ended at 84 8.4 yeah 8.4 for had we done nothing and we did the [50:00] 13 and we approved the 13% the projection was 17% for next year no [50:08] other way around no the other way around still 13 it was another 13 another 13 another 13 and then the year beyond that [50:16] what was they projected to be i don't I I don't remember two years all right my recollection is same as yours I think [50:22] and that is that if we were treated from the 13 then this year then this year would be seven yeah yeah that's what I [50:29] was trying to say so um the changes that we're making are [50:35] reducing those numbers right and there's no arguing against [50:41] that the changes we're making are reducing that number what we have to be [50:46] able to do is present how does that change impact the community and the way [50:53] to do that here's the change here's how it was allocated here's how it's going [50:58] to be allocated here's how you're going to experience it but we have to do that [51:03] for all the changes whatever changes we approve as a council we have to be able to show that picture and this is one [51:10] example of why i agree and we have to be very specific that there's a difference [51:17] between creating savings and also lowering the levy those are two entirely [51:24] different things the other element of it is service level service and that's [51:29] where my question is going to Dave said it would be seamless let's hear about seamless well I we've been getting a lot [51:35] of questions about how this would work and I know right now we have such wonderful service and we we all [51:42] appreciate very much what the assessors do what happens is someone doesn't like [51:49] their assessment they come they talk to Sheila or her staff they may change it [51:55] if they don't like it then they go to the board of appeals and then I believe after that [52:01] they still don't like it then they go to the county so tell me if we switch it around and have the assessors housed [52:08] here how that process would work mayor council member would work the same way okay so they'd come see the staff [52:16] correct and say I don't like this can we fix this and this is why and if they don't like that is does the city have [52:23] the board of appeals we do so we would still have our board of appeals okay and then if it that does doesn't work you go [52:29] to the county board of equalization as well okay and then of course there are other options that are legal and as you [52:37] know the county attorney's office by statute provides all the legal defense for all assessment services in the [52:42] county all 45 cities we have historically done that okay uh so did [52:48] the memos that you referenced that you sent out include this kind of [52:53] information it would be really helpful if we had something when we get questions like member Jackson just said [53:01] that we could say this is how it would work so Mayor Mr neil we're happy to [53:07] provide any informations you need any information you need uh FAQ whatever [53:12] relative to the types of questions you get uh we have done that in other cities [53:18] i know that uh if you were to talk to say a Plymouth [53:23] uh cities that have done this before they probably would have uh suggestions andor statements to make around the [53:30] service and and the transition that occurred plymouth I think we did about seven years ago and uh we had a contract [53:38] i remember getting the call from the city manager Dave Callister and we we did the contract and they're a large [53:44] city and it's it worked well one of the fundamental questions that's [53:50] been raised by some residents is well when you when you call city hall [53:56] now and you don't like your assessment your estimated market value you get right into the assessing department and [54:02] they're worried about disappearing into the the the voicemail morass at the [54:08] county if there even is one i don't know what happens when somebody from Plymouth calls we uh and they want to have [54:14] somebody come out and look at their property what happens so Mayor we we saw your report so I'm going to ask Mr rogan [54:21] to ask about the phone system and what we do mr mayor Council we we we [54:26] definitely set up uh different assessors in in the assessor's office who are assigned to cities and for the question [54:33] on the phone our phone system works that if you call in from Plymouth right now [54:38] we ask you to put in your PID and if you put in your PID you go right to the the Plymouth City Assessor right to their [54:45] phone and they are supposed to pick it up unless they're out in the field and if you don't have your PID then you go [54:51] into uh a voicemail system and we'll direct it over there we also have that line um that you can have it um in [54:58] Spanish right now as well and we get a lot of people who call who who need to Spanish and we have a an assessor who [55:04] speaks Spanish who's able to to communicate with folks so there it is it's probably different from how it [55:10] works here where there's a number and there a phone rings in somebody's office but our our Q system works well for [55:16] people to get directly to the person who can answer their questions have you done an internal analysis Scott [55:24] on on potential savings uh versus service [55:31] uh potential loss of service or difference in distinctions on [55:36] service that we provide versus what you think the county might provide has anybody talked to Plymouth [55:42] for example we've I've talked to Plymouth yeah and they they're satisfied with the the method that's used [55:51] well and I think what I'm hearing too is that it's going to be changing too and I don't know if that's just from the cost [55:57] perspective or if the overall format's changing but are is it going to be different [56:05] starting next year or is it more or less the same it's just being expanded and [56:10] funded differently mayor uh if council member if if you opt in uh I don't think [56:17] service is going to change i mean there may be some growing pains but relative to transition we've done this many times [56:24] before uh I know in your report you talk about your IT systems and some of those [56:30] things with loss that we'll work through uh we have a system that's operational right now we're also building a new [56:36] system so I I don't know if I was responsive to your question council member but No I think I I was going off [56:44] of kind of the staff report and some of the things that you said because right [56:49] now in our staff report I think one of the bullet points says that it's the [56:55] county assessing services 100% remote but then I also heard that it would be [57:00] potentially different with us potentially having someone in Edina so that's where I was kind of thinking that [57:07] it was a different process once it was rolled out to more cities mayor council member we're not 100% remote i mean [57:15] we're in embedded in cities that have invited us to be there and provide space [57:20] granted a lot of this work is in the field and our folks are in the field because they have to look at homes and buildings and uh and there are systems [57:28] by which we could communicate with you phone as Mr rogan said computer email addresses and uh we make sure that we're [57:35] attentive and responsive because these cities are our customers and we want to make sure they're satisfied and we can [57:41] continue to do what we're doing ultimately as you know this the county assessor is responsible for equalization [57:47] across the entire county so their department of revenue closely looks at what's being done and if there are uh [57:55] irregularities uh the county assessors asked to work with the cities uh to make [58:02] sure the equalization is consistent across the entire county and all parcels however they're categorized classified [58:10] so I I think it is dangerous i know we don't talk this [58:17] much in a working session i think it's dangerous for us to [58:24] um move forward with a frame that suggests and I may say it a little differently that the customer experience [58:32] is the same because it's not going to be [58:37] uh with system changes the best system anyone ever used [58:43] was the one they just switched from and so that's universal no matter [58:50] what you're ch you're going from A to B a was the best thing you ever had [58:55] because you're moving to something as new and your experience is different um [59:00] and so the for me the reason I keep talking about trying to steer us away [59:06] from the cost is because in the memo you asked a pointed question you said [59:14] "Here's what the cost is." And I think it might be the last sentence that says [59:19] "So the question is is that cost savings worth a different customer [59:27] experience?" And I'm probably paraphrasing and so like that's what we [59:33] need to be talking about that for an hour what is the customer experience what are people experiencing today what [59:40] do they like about the current system how do we do that in the new system so [59:46] that we can be confident that the quality of service which you just asked [59:51] about is worth the savings or the [59:57] reduction in the levy however whatever semantics we're going to use there um [1:00:02] and so that's the really that is the biggest question I have and it's kind of [1:00:07] hard to to tease through the memo to really understand that experience i [1:00:14] would love to explain that police explain a lot of different things that have come up in this [1:00:20] conversation and um the example of the customer service that [1:00:27] we give here is the other day two 90year-old ladies came in they don't [1:00:34] call they come into city hall their homestead was removed they [1:00:39] don't know why they've lived in the house forever nothing changed homestead's removed like we called Henipin County they told [1:00:46] us we have to go online and reapply we don't have a computer we don't know how [1:00:51] to use a computer so Jamie has them call Henipin [1:00:56] County directly with on speakerphone and the person on the other end's like "Well [1:01:01] nope i don't know what happened your homestead's gone you have to apply online." [1:01:07] So Jamie gets the ladies up to the computer and helps them apply online she says [1:01:14] they took it off the year before you need a you need an abatement as well she helps them through that whole process we [1:01:20] have somebody in the office every day during business hours we have people [1:01:26] answering the phone in the office every day during business hours being not 100% [1:01:34] remote at the county means they're out in the field when he says they're working in the city they're working in [1:01:41] the city not in the office they don't have somebody in that office from 8 to [1:01:47] 4:30 answering the phone as it rings and getting the walk-in customers that we [1:01:52] get here because Zudina has an older population they want in-person service [1:02:01] um and you're not going to get that with the [1:02:07] county unless they're willing to full-time staff people in the office [1:02:15] here also to convert like you said there's no no easy [1:02:20] conversions the county has a system right now that is not going to be supported any longer by the company so [1:02:27] they're building a new system they have all of our characteristics that's great that's not the only thing [1:02:33] that goes into a CAMA system into building out valuations the appraisers [1:02:39] here have worked for years to get those quality levels of the houses and the [1:02:45] rates so that those things will appraise out as near to market value as possible [1:02:52] and that process takes over five years so if the county has a 2 to threeyear [1:02:59] time to build out their new system then they're going to have another 5-year period of time to get all the buildings [1:03:07] in eina in the KMA system to a point where KMA calculates it not where they're just rolling values with an [1:03:15] adder depending on what the markets h what's happening in the market i mean these are the realities of the little [1:03:22] pieces that you don't get unless you work in the systems and [1:03:27] you know how it works um so the county does 37 cities in in [1:03:36] Henipin County the big eight are [1:03:42] 70% of the of the parcels so there 37 cities are like 35% or 30% of all the [1:03:50] parcels so when they say you know they are going to have to hire more people because Zedina is a big [1:03:57] city it's a complex city we have a lot of value we're the sixth highest valued [1:04:03] city in the state we get a lot of tax court 2024 Henipin County and their 37 [1:04:09] cities got 510 tax court petitions we had 114 so last year we had over $2 billion [1:04:19] under petition i mean we have you know very complex and I'm I'm sorry i'm a [1:04:25] little bit like I'm mad we do a great job for the city the county is not going [1:04:30] to give you that service i'm sorry i love the the appraisers at the county we [1:04:35] work very well together but they have a different system they send interns out in the summer to look at houses and then [1:04:42] they have people who do data analysis when you call from your neighborhood you get the appraiser for [1:04:49] your neighborhood to talk to they know all the sales they know the houses they know the projects going on in the city [1:04:54] they know what street construction's done or being done you know they know it all and you're not going to get that [1:05:01] from the county they don't always put the same people in at the city they rotate them they bring them we heard [1:05:08] from Ham which is our Henipin County monthly meeting that um when Tom Cunic [1:05:15] leaves Orno everybody's going to be out in Orno so they're moving all their people out there to help value that city [1:05:22] because the person who had been there for years and years is is retiring so how much time are they going [1:05:29] to be spending in Edina or in another city and the other [1:05:35] thing that is not being said here and I'm just going to say it if Hedina goes [1:05:41] and Maple Grove goes that's two of the Lois cities so the other cities who [1:05:46] still use Logis have to incur extra costs because Zino no longer is part of [1:05:52] that group and then they'll end up having to go so it's just going to be a [1:05:59] ripple effect and then your 5 to 3 is now going to be 5 to 4 or 5 to 450 [1:06:08] because now you're getting more and more cities who have to go because they're being forced because the county is not [1:06:16] charging the the cities for their assessing services like they used to [1:06:24] can you respond to the like what happens at the county level if you have somebody [1:06:31] who does not have computer access and they're having issues with Yeah I'm [1:06:36] going to go back i that that's a disturbing uh you know response that happened and I that I'm not aware of [1:06:43] that happening i mean we we pride ourselves on our customer service and I'm I'm I'm you know shocked to hear [1:06:49] that that we you know basically told somebody that they had to use a computer that didn't have a computer um so I'm [1:06:54] going to go back and and figure that out we you know the the uh you know we do [1:07:00] surveys we talk to our cities we're uh in in close contact with the the city [1:07:05] managers to try to make sure that we're meeting the needs of of each community we're and they they are very different [1:07:12] communities that have that have different needs and they have different desires for a long time the city of Plymouth wanted us um physically in the [1:07:19] city of Plymouth and then they didn't want us in the in the physically uh to to be housed at at the city of Plymouth [1:07:25] and so we're not there anymore so um you know we we try to be responsive to what the city needs um and what the and what [1:07:33] the city is um is is is looking for in their in their residents um and it is we [1:07:38] do have different experiences across our different um communities because that's in part the nature of of uh responding [1:07:46] to different communities and you serve I'm just thinking of our demographics because we do have a lot of elderly [1:07:53] people i guess I'm in that demographic anyhow yeah but computer Yeah okay [1:08:02] um and you came to city council and spoke [1:08:08] yes i can't remember the meeting when that happened the levy meeting okay so [1:08:14] that was at the levy meeting yeah okay cuz I want to go back and I want to listen to that because we have you know [1:08:22] heard from people who have been very happy but then not everybody's happy [1:08:27] with the service that they get and I do know um you can call and say I my you [1:08:36] know assessment went really high and the response that I have heard other people [1:08:42] get and I think I might have got it is well you need to provide um the value of [1:08:48] the houses next to you or nearby you have to have a comparison and for people [1:08:54] who are living in neighborhoods where there's so many tear downs it's really really hard because it it doesn't work [1:08:59] and so I just that but I don't know if that's I mean you can you can be upset at the service level but it it may be [1:09:06] just the reality that if you're in a small house and you're surrounded by new [1:09:11] houses you're you're basically so and that's and we have to follow the [1:09:17] market i mean our job is statutoily defined you know there is not a lot of [1:09:23] wiggle room there so we do have a set it's not like everybody agrees with what [1:09:28] we have to say or likes what we have to say to them and we have to tell people no you know okay so I have a ask then so [1:09:38] um it would be good to see whatever the service level agreement is like however [1:09:44] you measure the quality of the experience and the service that you provide [1:09:50] um so that' be one thing I'd ask for the second thing I'd ask for [1:09:57] is I like the way that you described the ex customer experience that [1:10:06] um I guess I'll just say some of our residents have um you could probably do [1:10:12] that for other residents as well i'm thinking kind of like profiles you gave [1:10:17] a elderly couple example you could probably give one or two examples of [1:10:24] other types of residents so that maybe we have three of those okay and then I [1:10:30] would like for you to respond all right those experiences here's what we do in [1:10:36] the county so that we can um have a better sense of the customer experience [1:10:43] that would be delivered and then the SLA is so that we have some sense of how the [1:10:51] quality of that service is uh managed if there are issues here's how those things [1:10:57] are addressed um because I think for this I'd like to see more data like that in order for us [1:11:05] to make the a decision on um your last [1:11:11] question which is is it worth the a [1:11:17] different customer experience is the savings worth that and I think you kind [1:11:22] of mentioned this earlier but I'd also like to layer in as best of the picture as we can from the financials so you [1:11:28] have a million dollars in here right that we would 500,000 the first year but then potentially a million um but then [1:11:35] like the part that I'm still questioning is yes a portion of it will go from city [1:11:40] general levy to county general general levy but are we already going to [1:11:46] experience an increase in the county general levy regardless because the 5.4 [1:11:51] is now being incorporated into that general levy and so we're going to [1:11:57] experience an increase and until and tell that whole picture too um cuz it's [1:12:03] going to be savings but it's probably not as much savings as completely [1:12:08] eliminating it from our general levy um you still got to pay for the service [1:12:14] yeah and we might have to pay for the service regard regardless of if we're [1:12:20] consuming it because it's being brought into the county general levy yeah that's right makes sense Dave [1:12:26] we may need to change our computer or whatever if another city flips we might [1:12:33] end up the change out costs no no no no we're just like it sounds [1:12:39] like Are you talking about Lois yeah thank you i mean because that could special assessments are done through [1:12:45] Logis and right now that's tied in with the camera system that we use for [1:12:50] valuing properties so you will have to do something if you get rid of that's one of the what [1:12:56] I would refer to as a legacy cost if because we do have our assessing group [1:13:02] handles our special assessments so we would need to figure out how to do that internally too but that might be [1:13:08] something that we end up having to deal with in three or four or five years down the road even if we don't do this it [1:13:15] sounds like Oh immediately no okay if you don't do this you would not have to [1:13:21] no if another city does it and then I mean okay I guess we I don't know sort of made it sound like it was we would be [1:13:29] contributing to the likelihood of don't want to go to the county other than Maple Grove is also looking at it but [1:13:35] the other I'm sorry I didn't hear that the other cities don't want to go to the county [1:13:43] relant we're getting close to the time we have to wrap up here but I just wanted to tell you that I feel like we [1:13:49] put you in kind of an awkward position here and I I regret that but I'm really [1:13:55] appreciative of your cander because I think it was good for us and good for the county and it's reminded me a little [1:14:01] bit of the I think Dave was probably the administrator then too we went through [1:14:06] this debate several years ago about whether or not we had to switch our dispatching from our PD to the county [1:14:12] yes and we made that question I think part of the quality of life survey as to [1:14:18] whether or not our residents wanted to uh have their dispatch done by Henipin [1:14:24] County and they said no they wanted it done locally they didn't care about the [1:14:30] cost and so that's another thing for us to be thinking about I guess is is this [1:14:36] an internal decision that we feel comfortable making or do we want to get a little more resident input on well [1:14:42] Well normally in a in a council manager city like Adina city manager has pretty [1:14:48] wide authority when it comes to hire fire promote pay all those sort of personnel actions this this is a unique [1:14:57] situation because we we're talking about contract contracting and transitioning [1:15:03] to another government right so I can't do that i can't sign that agreement without your stamp of approval on it and [1:15:11] we don't do anything with employees unless that happens [1:15:16] i think dispatches I thought about that as well but then with dispatch it's a little bit it's I mean [1:15:24] it's quite a bit different it's very different yeah yeah no just to use that by way of example right but I think it's [1:15:30] fair like do we have to make the decision this year and could it be [1:15:35] something that we survey or solicit feedback in in another way it's a substantially different factual [1:15:41] situation you're talking about life and death versus and we could also say ambulance service yeah great yeah a more [1:15:48] public picture versus a more internal type of service that people just unless [1:15:54] you've had this assessor you know help you with a problem we've done those little surveys on a [1:16:00] one-off basis seems like in the past we can talk to Jennifer [1:16:08] mayor council members uh I appreciate the opportunity to be here and again I know this is a [1:16:14] challenging conversation i appreciate the cander from your assessor uh this is not about a takeover i mean it's an [1:16:21] offer and uh we extend that and we are open to having dialogue you don't have [1:16:27] to make a decision by May one uh in all likelihood we may only hear from one [1:16:33] other city but or about this but what we why I did this is to plan for my budget [1:16:39] because I'm planning for a 2026 budget right now and this is operational we [1:16:45] have all of our departments uh projecting and so if we're going to do something I want to be planful and [1:16:51] intentional about how we set this up to do it in a in a smooth orderly manner so [1:16:56] and I mean I've said this to the county board on multiple occasions i I think that my job is to try to find [1:17:02] collaborative opportunities with other uh governmental units and that's what we do and you don't know unless you have [1:17:08] the conversation can explore if it's a fit great if it's not then we move on to [1:17:14] the next opportunity and I haven't I haven't been successful on every opportunity public health 911 dispatch [1:17:21] we still have several count several cities in the county do their own public health work uh the county does vast [1:17:28] majority of public uh for a large pop portion of the 1.3 million residents PAP we have a [1:17:35] disjointed system I tried 15 years ago to integrate and or collaborate we all [1:17:41] buy different equipment even so I mean again I think that our residents expect that we're going to try to at least look [1:17:48] at options if you live in the city of Minneapolis you're paying for a Minneapolis crime lab and the police [1:17:53] department ahead of county crime lab and the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension so you're paying for three [1:17:59] crime labs so again I think in full transparency if we can find ways to [1:18:04] operationally create efficiencies and serve our residents that's awesome so appreciate the opportunity to be here [1:18:11] this evening and we'll see you downstairs thanks