[0:00] 2024 Planning Commission meeting for the city of viina I know this is exactly how [0:05] you wanted to spend your Valentine's Day same with us um say it on behalf of the [0:10] Planning Commission welcome to all of you in person and those of you surely who who were tuning in who couldn't make [0:17] it in the snow um you know we are grateful for [0:23] your curiosity your participation and your feedback as we navigate change here [0:28] together in Idina specific specifically regarding the way in which people would like to use their [0:34] land we are committed to seeking receiving and you know [0:41] considering your feedback when we decide on any recommendations regarding any of [0:47] these land use matters so hopefully you were able to find a way to do so prior [0:54] to this meeting through the city's engagement website which is ww. better [0:59] together .org everything that's been submitted through that has made its way to us and we commit to you that it will [1:06] be considered as we discuss tonight and provide some non-binding feedback to the [1:12] one applicant uh there are no public hearings tonight so just to be clear and [1:20] it was probably mentioned before but the only opportunity to speak will be during Community comment and the rule for that [1:28] is you can't speak speak about matters that are on tonight's agenda so that [1:33] includes the sketch plan as well as the appointments so again Community comments [1:39] held for things not on tonight's agenda uh maybe a little context to the [1:46] Planning Commission since there's a lot of people here uh we are residents just like yourselves we're appointed by the [1:52] city council we spend the majority of our time kind of reacting to issues at [1:58] hand where we are more applying the way in which uh applying the law regarding [2:05] land use matters so pretty reactive to development proposals or changes to the [2:12] plan the other half of our time we are working more in a proactive and a [2:17] planning matter so we have a work plan every year that gets approved by the [2:23] city council gets tweaked by the city council and that's our opportunity to get ahead of things to try to be a [2:29] little more more proactive and I'll touch on that later as it relates to one particular item on the agenda uh and [2:37] that's a little bit about us so without further Ado we will call [2:43] this meeting to order and roll call commissioner [2:49] felt commissioner Miranda here commissioner day here commissioner [2:54] Strauss here commissioner Bornstein here chair Bennett here all right next we [3:01] have the approval of tonight's meeting agenda welcome a motion to approve [3:06] unless there's any changes proposed motion to approve the [3:12] agenda second all those in favor say I I so moved next we have the approval of [3:19] the prior meeting's minutes which was January 10th as well as a special work session [3:26] from January 10th and January 24th 4 of [3:33] 2024 motion to approve all second all those in favor say I so [3:41] moved all right so we have something different in our agenda [3:48] tonight and that's special recognitions and presentations and that's the election of [3:54] officers so as I mentioned planning Commissioners hold a threeyear [3:59] [Music] uh three-year commitment and every year we kind of reaffirm that commitment of [4:06] the leaders on board and then soon enough we will appoint new not we will [4:12] appoint but the city council have appointed new members have they done so yet they will do so at their next [4:18] meeting okay but interviews have been going for the last month or two and interviews have all taken place yep all [4:27] right I guess this is the opportunity for for us to basically reelect my [4:32] position as a chair Jerry was vice chair but he will have served three full terms meaning [4:40] nine years on the Planning Commission um as of next meeting which is a huge [4:45] commitment and awesome job uh so we need to recommend a new Vice chair and then [4:52] appoint a new secretary so I guess I just open it to maybe some discussion [4:57] or anyone has any recommendations I know Lou you're serving currently as [5:06] secretary yeah do you want do you want to remain secretary I'll ask that [5:11] first um I could be Vice chair okay [5:17] okay I think I mean that's typically how we've done it in the past you know secretary to Vice chair unless someone [5:24] really wants to do it or has something to say against that um I'd welcome that [5:30] and we can make a motion at the end of this for all those positions but some nods that sound good sure did [5:38] we hear it all from the people that are that have some history here that are not [5:44] here tonight we did not okay I think that's [5:49] yeah uh I guess as it regards the secretary role is there anyone [5:55] here or not here that you know of that would be interested [6:04] what does it involve not a whole lot occasionally [6:10] signing documents that we approve yeah I mean any of us can do [6:16] that if no one volunteers literate lit you can volunteer me happy to sign [6:23] documents but I I don't care one way or the other to go for anything like that and I think you'd be great [6:30] Vice chair you know the rules so anyone else here thinking secretary [6:37] sounds nice [6:46] okay all right so if that sounds good to everyone I guess we make a motion to [6:52] just approve of those appointments or reappointments and new appointments how [6:58] do you want to do it car you could do it all in one motion I assume the [7:03] recommendation is for chair Bennett to continue as chair but we should make that motion as [7:09] well I welcome a motion yeah I'm motioning that chair Bennett remains his chair that um commissioner Miranda [7:16] becomes Vice chair and that commissioner Bornstein becomes secretary do we have a [7:22] second second all those in favor say I I I opposed all right motion car carries [7:30] thank you Carrie and that moves us on to the next piece which is as I mentioned [7:35] the community comment so this is a chance for um anyone in the community [7:40] that like to speak about a matter not onto tonight's agenda uh if you would [7:46] please come to the podium you have three minutes to speak when it turns green when it turns yellow you have 30 seconds [7:53] left when it turns red your time's up just State your full name and address and now as the time to come [8:00] forward for Community comment [8:12] sure uh my name is uh ingred manai I've been resident in indana for 30 years I [8:17] appreciate your introduction uh of yourselves I was wondering if it was available for us to know uh how many of [8:25] you are real estate developers or involved in financing of real estate and [8:30] and development and whether you also have a uh when in many businesses we [8:37] sign um documents uh regarding uh that [8:42] we don't have any conflict of interest in matters that we are considering so are those something that we would be [8:48] able to know as a community I think it would be reassuring to know that you not you do not have any Financial interests [8:54] in your decisions thank you that's all I had to say [9:02] thank you um might be just good if we just take a break we could address that [9:07] one before we open it to the next uh before it maybe it'd be easiest if we just went around and people shared a [9:14] little bit about what they did uh but so everyone understands when we get [9:19] appointed there's a quite a robust training element to the Planning [9:25] Commission as well as some specific commitments to to serve ethically which [9:32] means if there is a conflict of interest you would state it uh for sketch plan [9:38] related items uh it's worth knowing if there's a conflict but certainly for [9:43] binding recommendations like If This Were a public hearing it's much more important [9:49] and typically fellow Commissioners will share why they're abstaining from the [9:54] vote and or not participating that's kind of a standard we expect and we set [9:59] here and so maybe we could just go around the room of what we do and why we're here maybe sure yes I'm [10:07] my name is Will Bornstein I'm a healthcare attorney and I don't have any Financial interests with respect to [10:15] development um I'm Jerry Strauss I I've been retired now for for 12 years but my [10:21] career was with the uh water department of the city of St Paul in uh as a [10:26] supervisor in civil engineering um and yes and and I am actually rotating off [10:32] after nine years serving on the commission so though I've had exposure to this issue um I will not be [10:40] contributing to any decisions on [10:45] this all right I'm Ryan day um I'm a chemical engineer for 3M so I don't [10:52] don't personally know any developers and I don't have any interest in in the development um this Planning Commission [10:59] uh is my first position with the city of Adina of it's been a steep learning curve but if I did have any um [11:06] association with any developers I certainly would accuse myself but being a chemical engineer I don't get to inter [11:12] in interact with those people very often so [11:17] thanks all right my name is Jimmy Bennett I'm the chair been on this commission for almost eight years now my [11:24] history is as a civil engineer specifically geotechnical engineering so [11:30] I have a long history of working with developers Engineers owners all around the state [11:36] and Country and a whole variety of infrastructure which was really why I got involved with the Planning [11:42] Commission to kind of share and harness my experience for the betterment of Edina and currently I'm a construction [11:48] project manager for a student housing project in on dinky Town's [11:57] campus uh my name is L Miranda I've been on the commission for uh six years and [12:03] before that I was a uh commissioner on the pl uh Transportation Commission um I [12:09] I was involved as a resident in the 44th in France small area plan uh also as a [12:14] resident I was involved with the uh climate action plan the city adopted um [12:19] and I've been a volunteer on the um Metro Transit Eline brt uh committee so [12:27] I'm a software consultant so I really have nothing connected to development in my background so thank [12:36] you introductions my name is Mary wfel I've been on the Planning Commission for a year now um I am an architect I mostly [12:44] work on residential remodels and additions have had some commercial experience for some large firms here in [12:51] the Twin Cities in the past um I don't have any relationships with [12:56] developers um and I also was part of the Morningside neighborhood steering [13:02] committee um and was the president of that for several years and also [13:08] participated as a resident in the 44th in France small area plan and that's one [13:13] of the reasons I got involved in the city because I was curious about why decisions were made and I think it's a [13:20] great idea if you want to know to get involved and learn more thank [13:25] you yeah I just want to thank the resident who asked a question not often do we ever even get to share that but I [13:33] hope you can see and there's a couple people missing we we represent a a [13:38] pretty diverse background of experiences and expertise but we all have a passion to really make the city better we live [13:46] by certain areas that we love we love the city and we're here to try to try to [13:53] Usher it forward to a better future but also you know preserve the good things that make you I know what it is so [14:00] really appreciate that question that was very nice anyone else who's here for [14:06] Community comment would welcome you forward again uh to speak about a matter [14:11] not on tonight's agenda you have three [14:17] minutes all right seeing none we're going to just jump right into [14:22] it so we have sketch plan review for 5780 Lincoln Drive and this is the [14:30] second time we're seeing this site as a sketch plan review we saw one back in [14:36] May of 2023 there was some context that's [14:42] changed a little bit since then so I'm sure car will get into but if uh if we don't I'll I'll gladly share some of [14:48] that uh but what you can expect for a sketch plan review uh the process is City staff puts [14:56] together a report for the planning commission based on off of the facts and findings uh of the law as well as how it [15:03] relates to the propos or the conceived plan at this point they put together a [15:10] quick presentation uh then we kind of ask some questions there's some back and forth [15:17] then we open it to the applicant in this case a developer to provide their own [15:22] presentation and then there's some more back and forth and then the difference with the sketch plan versus a public [15:29] hearing is we are providing non-binding feedback to the applicant in a way to [15:36] help steer their project in the right direction or not at all uh and that's up [15:42] to kind of the discretion of the uh planning Commissioners as well as what the level [15:49] of ask at the table is and I don't know Carrie if you're going to share pyramided discretion or if we if you got [15:56] that later for public hearing if that time comes but I'll turn it over to Carrie Teague to provide the [16:03] presentation thank you yes thank you chair members of the commission as mentioned this is a site you've looked [16:08] at a few times over the last couple of years located on the Western border [16:13] along 169 London da and Lincoln Drive it's currently a one-story office [16:22] building it's guided in our comprehensive plan for office and residential land uses that density that [16:30] is contemplated within this area is between 20 and 75 units per [16:35] acre the current zoning is planned industrial district though industrial is [16:41] in the title office is one of the primary uses within our industrial district it's primarily offices in this [16:48] area including this site note that there's a variety of zoning districts [16:53] adjacent to this site the white areas those are single family low density this [16:59] hashed area those are duplexes the uh dashed area here is [17:06] planned residential development to that's a town home development we've got a commercial uh zoning to the South this [17:14] purple area is a mixed development District it includes uh offices and the [17:21] new apartment building that was built about oh five years ago or [17:26] so so this is a look at the sketch plan that you considered about a year ago it [17:32] was an all affordable uh housing um proposal 141 units uh to be done in two [17:41] phases the first phase was 89 units here and there was a second phase um to be [17:47] determined later these were the renderings that we looked at it was a five-story [17:53] building so the proposal uh before you this evening is uh for 89 units total it [18:00] would be a a a one phase development it would include a three-story building [18:08] with um 81 units and eight uh town home [18:13] units along Lincoln Drive so some renderings of what that what that might look like here's a look at the site plan [18:21] the parking is underneath the building some of the the courtyard and play areas [18:27] inside the development I believe that original sketch plan they were on the outskirts again parking to the rear of [18:34] the building the town homes would have walkouts toward Lincoln so this gets into the question [18:42] that you had raised about the Pyramid of discretion I don't have the pyramid to show you but basically this is a [18:48] proposal that the city has complete discretion to say yes or no to they [18:54] would be asking for a rezoning of the site so because it's a rezoning it's at the city discretion to say yes or no so [19:01] there's a couple of options here uh for the rezoning um from the the current planned [19:08] industrial district to either the prd4 which is our space zoning District that [19:14] would allow high density residential or PUD planned unit development what the [19:19] Pud is as we've talked about uh for the last um many years is we're writing a [19:25] zoning ordinance specific for that site and one of the advantages of a PUD um is [19:32] that we can write right into the standards the requirement for affordable housing so some of our recent 100% [19:40] affordable housing projects have been done under a PUD the sound um on 76 the [19:46] amonson apartments at 70th in Cahill and the re most recent 4040 project on 70th [19:53] Street as we've well I'll just leave it at that so those are the two options here and I'll get into the density [19:59] allowed with an each in a minute so I put this compliance table [20:06] together that compares the current zoning the planned industrial district with that PRD standard the high density [20:14] residential um and I used one of the puds um this the 4040 project and did a [20:20] comparison so on the far right is what is proposed so under the standard zoning [20:28] they would need flexibility on the setbacks 35 ft is required on all along [20:33] all law lines the PID the current zoning has a 50 foot standard you can see with that [20:41] 4040 project they have a 50 foot setback a 40 foot and then the two sides are 10 [20:46] feet the building height is the one part of this project that would be code compliant they did reduce the height [20:53] from five stories to three based on some of the feedback that the Planning Commission and Council had provided the [20:58] last last time uh density so again our comprehensive plan allows between 20 and [21:05] 75 units an acre under the prd4 standards the maximum allowed would be [21:11] just uh 31 units uh per acre or 30 excuse me 34 units per acre so under [21:19] that zoning they wouldn't be allowed the D the number of units that they're proposing here this evening so they would need a variance from that [21:27] District Within the uh the 4040 project that was an area that allowed up to 75 units an acre and they maxed out that [21:34] site terms of building coverage the site would exceed That Base zoning of [21:41] PRD uh the usable area the city has requirements again within that PRD [21:46] District that there needs to be a certain amount of green space that's usable outside and they would need a [21:53] variance from that that those those active areas in the middle were just [21:58] under 9,000 square ft and under the base zoning they would need 35,000 square ft [22:04] floor area ratio would in would exceed the PID and the PRD standard but would [22:10] be in line with some of those other puds that that we've done in the past in terms of the number of parking stalls [22:17] they would be code compliant so under either scenario that [22:22] they request it's either flexibility through the Pud or variances through that PRD standard [22:31] Next Issue which and this was raised with a lot of the feedback that we've received um from the community and [22:37] that's in regard to the small area plan as you know we will be um doing that in [22:44] 2024 typically a developer will wait until that process is finished that's [22:49] what staff advises as well however in this instance the applicant has received up to $27 million [22:57] in funding for the all affordable housing project so they need to move forward in order to receive those funds [23:05] um there was not a moratorium passed that prevents an application within this [23:10] area so should the applicant submit the city is obligated to take action on that [23:16] request doesn't mean you have to approve approve the project you still again have that discretion to approve or denial but [23:24] failure to act on an application means the project is automatically approved [23:31] so just some of the other issues and considerations um again this does add to [23:36] our affordable housing goals that we've established with the Mech Council we talked about the the density and the [23:42] rezoning um next issue is sewer capacity So within this area there's not the [23:50] capacity in the Min in the Edina system to support the project um sewer pipes [23:57] would need to be upgraded ated within Edina to serve this site there is a [24:02] possibility to connect to the minona system kind of borrow it on a short-term [24:09] basis that decision hasn't been made um but we would want that issue resolved [24:16] prior to a formal application so that's ongoing probably to take place in the next month or [24:22] two uh we talked about the Heights and just to mention The Pedestrian [24:27] connections are important to the regional trail that runs through through the area so I will stop there and answer [24:34] any questions you may have and as mentioned the applicant is here to make a presentation as well I was thinking [24:39] before I turn over fellow Commissioners I want to just provide a little more context to some of this stuff I tried to [24:46] a little bit but as you went through that there's I think a couple more things that are willing that that's [24:52] important for people to understand so one role the Planning Commission has by [24:58] law La is every 10 years we're appointed by the city council and we're responsible for updating the [25:04] comprehensive plan it's like a threeyear process I was on it for the full three [25:10] years as we updated the last one and the goal with that is for the city [25:17] to kind of sharpen its Vision as we think toward the future so zoning is [25:22] just a tool that's used to kind of achieve some of the develop or the comprehensive plan in so as we rewind [25:30] way back in time like zoning shouldn't be thought of a tool that never changes [25:35] we should always be looking at how our city responds to the current trends in [25:41] the future to help keep making nine a better place so one of the key things [25:46] for the prior uh comprehensive plan was to really locate some of these potential [25:54] this was two times ago was to really focus on areas of potential change and so those were highlighted as [26:01] pretty much the commercial nodes in so 44th in France 50th in France uh Grand View neighborhood uh it [26:10] wasn't as discreetly mentioned in that for this area but this is certainly an [26:16] area that you could argue maybe would have some potential change coming uh one [26:22] of the other takeaways from the comprehensive Plan update was to Really [26:27] Leave single family home neighborhoods Alone um krie could you zoom or go back [26:33] to the zoning map so one thing that we become familiar [26:40] with having served here is like you can kind of see development patterns on this [26:45] map there's a lot of just little squares that's where most of the people in this room live you know in the neighborhoods [26:52] but what tends to line a lot of those neighborhoods the busier roads Vernon 169 are these buffer areas like duplexes [27:01] or multifam and then you have more multi-use commercial or high a density [27:06] residential so that's kind of something if you haven't noticed you see arounded [27:11] Dina and that's nothing new it's just kind of the the makeup of what's there [27:18] is what we always want to just you know keep a pulse on and so as it comes to [27:24] this particular area we are just at a a very unfortunate Crossroads so this the [27:31] Planning Commission proposed two years ago uh to add to our work plan studying [27:37] areas of potential change and this this was one of them that we wanted to kind [27:42] of identify and figure out what to do that unfortunately got removed from our work plan and [27:48] tabled and so this year the small area plan instead of really honing in on a [27:55] more broad sense of all these areas got just moved to the top of the list in anticipation for what we're [28:02] seeing tonight uh so we're just at this unfortunate Crossroads of timing where a [28:08] developer who came here last summer uh with an idea which isn't unusual this happens all over the city [28:15] where someone has a piece of land and they want to propose something um but at [28:21] the same time the community got really interested in it you know by virtue of [28:26] oh hey this could change and and so we're we're we're kind of in this parallel path temporarily and it's [28:33] definitely not a place we want to be that's why we try to get something like this on our work plan earlier our goal [28:39] is to really try to be proactive so you as a community and we as a Planning Commission by the time development [28:45] proposals come before us we've already kind of agreed on a potential Direction [28:52] so commissioner Miranda mentioned he's part of the 44th in France small area plan I served on that as a planning [28:59] commissioner and in a similar way kind of during the development of that uh a [29:07] developer came forward with a proposal so they were encouraged to kind of delay that uh that proposal but they [29:14] didn't also have $27 million of financing at the table with a a deadline [29:20] so I hope everyone can appreciate this is just an unfortunate timeline of [29:26] events that we wish we could be a little more ahead of as a community as well as a commission and an unfortunate place [29:32] for a developer to be to provide you know housing options for those who can't [29:38] otherwise afford to live in the area hope that helps people just kind of [29:43] understand where we are but I figured it is worth sharing before other Commissioners have any [29:51] feedback thanks Jerry okay [29:59] yes um planner T the the yeah that view you have up [30:05] there fine so we're looking at the red highlighted areas the site correct it's actually the yellow yeah yellow yellow [30:12] okay which um so it's it's regarding that the the the lack of sewer capacity [30:18] you know for this site and what and the the one option because so it's it [30:26] borders I 169 is actual the city municial border between right so the [30:32] option of going to um minaga would would that review and decision be made as to [30:39] what direction the city would require before um site plan submittal I mean you [30:46] mentioned it's to be made but it would well that would be in front part of the [30:52] that's the goal yes is to um have that flushed out what that's going it take to [30:58] potentially connect to minetonka before they make an application at least before it comes to [31:04] the Planning Commission to me that would be it's an important uh factor for the the develop [31:11] of that site mean though it is on it is on it is a dead end going west I mean [31:16] that's you have but you do have considerable property in Idina to the [31:22] north and to take hunks and then have it connect to a different system I mean [31:27] there's it's I know that's kind of deepen the infrastructure weeds but I [31:33] that will be reviewed and um part of the deliberation for at [31:39] site plan that's the goal yes okay okay so that'll be out there okay thank [31:46] you do we have a pulse on how those negotiations and how that discussion is [31:52] going so far right obviously if it's coming up in a matter of weeks assume we have a general direction so far from the [31:58] Met Council in the city of minetonka yeah so met um city of minetonka is open [32:04] to the idea they have a lot of development occurring in the Opus um [32:10] Redevelopment that's happening within their industrial area as well so they [32:16] need to protect their total capacity um anticipating future development as well [32:22] so they have concerns not um wanting to for the city just to use up that [32:29] capacity potentially um but the detail of how that works does [32:36] the city serve it with their service in years in the future or do we compensate [32:43] there's a lot of moving Parts there um but they're open to at least having that discussion ultimately it's a decision of [32:50] the city councils um to make that ask of [32:55] minaka okay and as it currently stands right this development would be paying for that connection correct and then the [33:01] C Minon would potentially have to make up the Gap if they were to lose right capacity and have to add additional [33:08] capacity in that area right to potentially upsize their pipes and [33:13] things yes okay okay um can I ask what is the the current ask for public [33:20] financing so when this first this project first came forward it was $2.5 Million as that number [33:25] changed uh with the with the ask initially last summer I don't believe that's [33:31] changed okay we can okay we can confirm with the developer because with the size [33:38] and the scope changing so much I'm just curious if that two and a half million number remains or if it's yeah the [33:43] number of units is the same okay so I believe the ask of the city would be the [33:48] same yes okay and how much is that through Tiff and how much that is through debt financing yeah I don't boy [33:55] it's yes our affordable housing manager is is here I might ask her to come up and [34:02] assist good evening um there would not be a new Tiff District [34:07] created uh so all the increment um generated by this development would go [34:13] to the taxing authorities the the 2.5 million that was pledged on a contingent basis is coming [34:20] from a um housing fund that is from the old discontinued Southdale 2 Tiff [34:27] District that was pooled and the only use for those funds is for affordable housing it has to be used for affordable [34:34] housing it's already in the fund and this would be drawing on that okay thank [34:47] you okay so you mentioned that [34:52] connecting to the minona system might be a shortterm solution is there like when [34:58] you think about longterm at this site assuming just assuming this this project [35:04] went forward what's the long-term solution to the Sewer issue yeah um [35:11] shortterm being in the five to seven year time frame longterm probably 20 so [35:18] as part of that um part of the discussions as part of the small area plan that basically [35:25] includes all the yellow red and purple areas um and potentially even to the [35:31] north in the F future comprehensive plans but um consider um serving within [35:38] the city the pipes come from the Cahill District area up through the city um so [35:44] that's the long-term planning that our engineering staff would have to to take on in order to serve increased density [35:51] in this area okay got it and then my second question was and I think you just already answered it was just for the [35:56] benefit of everybody here um and for the conversation that we're going to have tonight what and you just did it I was going to [36:03] say can you draw a line around the part of this area that's subject to the small [36:08] area planning work relative to the site we just did it and I thought that that was helpful context [36:23] thanks it's a slightly smaller area that were is the small area planed it doesn't include the purple it does include the [36:29] purple it does include the purple okay thank [36:41] you speaking of the purple the purple is right now mixed [36:46] development um one is the loaden the other is the children's correct um [36:53] offices um and it says mixed development but as [36:58] long as something comes forward in for a project that would be [37:04] in any mixed development it could be any of those uses that are allowed within that mixed [37:11] development it and so it can be a single use it can be just apartments or like [37:17] the office it can be just offices yeah going from office to residential in this [37:22] area would be an issue with the the sewer capacity so that not sure if that [37:28] could happen today um but I guess what I'm getting at [37:35] is we don't have the office res residential zoning yet I mean it's part [37:40] of our comprehensive plan it's where we want to go we want to look at some of those things [37:48] um but if so you right a project is being suggested for this site as long as [37:59] um so I'm assuming the office residential would be somewhat along our [38:04] other zoning lines if it is a use that is allowed within that [38:11] District it's allowed yes so part of the the thinking that did go into [38:16] establishing this office and residential district was it's not giving them the [38:23] ability to do Residential by right it was more it's a possibility in this area [38:29] you need to come forward with a rezoning request but doesn't mean that the city [38:34] has to rezone it to that use I touch on that a little earlier I if people are [38:40] new and they're looking at both these maps and wondering why they're different could you touch on that a little as well [38:46] the comprehensive plan map here that guides this for office residential is [38:51] that long-term 10 to 30-year vision for what's potential for for this area it's [38:58] the zoning District that allows the uses on the [39:04] site I guess one thing that we're working and on our work plan is to kind [39:09] of Rectify some of the zoning as well consider catching some of the zoning up [39:15] to the comprehensive plan so that there is a little more so it matches in areas [39:21] I think we can agree on that's an excellent point I didn't mention that in my presentation but that is one of your [39:27] work plan items is that zoning audit um to take a look at some of these [39:32] discrepancies between comprehensive plan and Zoning yet when we established those [39:38] the idea was the negotiation uh back and forth but there seems to be you know we [39:43] want to take a look at more zoning by right rather than negotiation so we'll [39:49] be fleshing some of that out this year one more question and I had reached [39:55] out earlier um to ask for a little homework on some of the units um per [40:02] acre on some of these adjacent properties the load in and um the lenford town homes and the residences [40:11] just to the East and the L uh the loaden is 30 yeah [40:17] so the loaden which is this site right here this is the new apartment building [40:23] that is 36 units per acre there's 250 units with in that development the town [40:29] home development to the South that's about 13 units per acre and the town home development to [40:37] the east of the site that is about five units per acre within this area here so [40:44] more of that Medium density range which is what it's guided for in the comprehensive plan this area right here [40:51] guided medium density thank you [41:00] and the site we're looking at is 34 units per Acer one other question um so an [41:08] industrial zoning district has um you I thought I read in the code in the zoning [41:15] Ordnance earlier that it had a 20 foot rear yard set back and a side yard set [41:21] back and just a 50 50 foot in yard and front yard but you had mentioned 5050 [41:27] and 20 here is that because it's on it's because it's on it's got three street [41:34] frontages so Street Frontage is a 50 foot setback and that side the North Lot [41:40] line is a side setback so they be 20 feet there okay so if the back had not been 169 it would have been a 20 foot it [41:48] would have been 505 20 okay thank [41:54] you Miranda think most of mik questiones have been [42:02] answered good all right I guess we will turn it over to the applicant team please introduce yourselves and uh away [42:09] with the presentation not like away but like you [42:15] know [42:20] present okay okay [42:30] good evening planning Commissioners City staff Dina residents U whether you're here in person or watching from home um [42:37] it's our pleasure to be back here in front of you for the second time to uh review our sketch plan uh on Lincoln on [42:43] the creek uh there's no other place I'd rather be on Valentine's Day so thank you for having us here um you know as [42:52] since this is a sketch plan review and not a formal application we really hope to get your feedback uh on our updated [42:59] project um especially as it relates to land use and the site plan director Teague has done a great job of laying [43:06] out uh the key facts about the project so we're just going to quickly uh reinforce the main points uh from his [43:13] presentation uh We've surrounded ourselves I'm sorry I did not introduce myself my name is Amal Dixit with sohem [43:19] companies I live in Minneapolis um and we've surrounded ourselves with an excellent development team with Decades [43:26] of experience in and affordable housing uh I have Mindy Michael here from C Wilson Architects uh we also have here [43:33] with us tonight from our uh service provider uh partner that's Chris [43:38] westergard from Touchstone mental health and from our property management partner Property Solutions and services uh [43:45] Patrick Moore is here somewhere there he is um with [43:52] that you as director teag mentioned we originally brought this project forward like last spring uh we hosted a [43:58] neighborhood meeting and presented our sketch plan to both the Planning Commission and city council we heard the [44:04] feedback we heard the concerns and from both the community and from City officials and we addressed them in this [44:11] updated sketch plan we heard concerns about the density of the site the height [44:16] of the phase one building the setbacks elements of the site layout as well as concerns about pedestrian safety so as [44:23] as director teag mentioned the biggest change we've made is eliminating Phase 2 [44:28] so now our project is one phase this 89 unit development and eliminating that [44:34] phase two has a direct impact on all these other areas the the density is [44:39] reduced to 34 units per acre which is well within the what the comprehensive [44:45] plan guides the site for which is 20 to 75 units per acre since we're able to [44:50] utilize the entire site for 89 units we're able to reduce the height to three stories or about 40 ft [44:57] on the setbacks we now have at least 25t setbacks all around and we're able to [45:03] double the setback at the key Southeast intersection of the site also the increased setbacks allow us to [45:09] potentially preserve mature trees in terms of the site layout we've increased the amount of green space and have [45:15] created a courtyard with a more protected playground we've added a sidewalk along Lincoln Drive to provide [45:22] safe access to the crosswalk at the southeast intersection of the site and the sewer connection which there's been [45:28] a lot of discussion about uh we know this is a key to unlocking the site um and Engineers from Adam minetonka and [45:35] met Council are actively discussing um possible solutions to this and the idea [45:41] of affordable ownership came up more in our conversations uh with the city council than W with the Planning [45:47] Commission but we've begun discussions with Minnesota housing which is our primary fun um about the possibility of [45:55] converting the8 for bedroom town home rental units to ownership after the [46:00] initial 15-year affordability period with that I'm going to turn it over to Mindy Michael from C Wilson [46:07] Architects good evening have uh thank you all for having us here and uh thank you uh chair Bennett for some of the [46:14] background that you gave us uh leading to kind of how we landed where we are today um as was mentioned we had kind of [46:20] a two-phased development proposed previously um and have eliminated that phase two and basically taken the 89 [46:28] units that were initially proposed for the taller building and spread them out of across the site um resulting in the [46:35] 81 unit building kind of nestling between London da and on-ramp 169 and [46:40] then the eight units of town homes along Lincoln on the east [46:47] side uh as was noted before we've got the uh reduced Den density to 34 units [46:53] per acre um kind of spread out for this Workforce housing um a three-story apartment building over [47:00] a one uh level of below grade parking uh which results in a 1.26 parking spots [47:06] per unit across the site um with the covered one parking unit per unit that's [47:12] required for the for the zoning um the amenities included in the apartment [47:18] building that would be also uh available to the those in the town homes it would be a community room fitness center and [47:24] Courtyard with playground as it was previously mentioned uh those uh common areas are uh nestled near the front [47:31] entry and in look outlooking over that uh green space that's uh kind of protected within the middle of the site [47:38] we've got uh a goal of achieving us Green Building standard silver certification for this site as well uh [47:45] and complying with the green community's requirements for [47:51] mhfa uh within this development we've got great access to the 9M cre Trail [47:57] lots of walking paths and biking paths there uh available to the community as well as these potential future residents [48:04] uh great place for families to um raise their children and play in in the [48:10] area I we keep moving um as was kind of uh mentioned previously by director [48:18] Teague we've brought some renderings to show kind of the scale of the building how it Nestles in with the surrounding [48:23] developments you can see the uh Cloud9 condos across 169 the kind of office to [48:29] residential conversion that had happened there we've got the to the kind of plan [48:34] Southeast to the right lower right the town homes across the creek and then to [48:39] the left are would be the commercial Development Across London are uh this is looking kind of in the [48:46] other direction with the loaden in the background to the left and the shops uh kind of in between there just showing [48:53] kind of the the stepping of the building from the three stories up along uh London deran 169 down to the two stories [49:00] uh with a pedestrian uh presence along [49:06] Lincoln uh this building section that we've provided it kind of shows a cross-section through different angles [49:12] of the site the the one on the lower um portion of the site or excuse me can't [49:18] really Point here um maybe I can grab this uh this element over here on the [49:24] right would be the massing for the loaden kind of showing in in proportion both how far away from other site it is [49:30] but in relative proportion how tall it is compared to our building and [49:35] surrounding buildings this uh kind of cyan turquoise color be uh portion being [49:41] the three-story apartment building and the green uh representing the twostory [49:46] town homes and up here is kind of going the other direction through the site um [49:53] cutting through the apartment building on this side the two story Town Homes going down to the creek and then showing [49:59] kind of the distance and height of the existing Town [50:05] Homes uh I won't belabor this too much I think we've gone through a lot of the um zoning summary previously but just kind [50:13] of interesting to note the kind of Crossroads that we are at with the kind of um lack of a a specific zoning [50:20] District that really uh applies to what we're trying to do and aligns with what the comprehensive plan guides this PL [50:26] this site for um so you can imagine it was kind of hard to try and um establish [50:33] the rules and setbacks and things that we were trying to shoot for with not a clear guidance on zoning that was [50:39] aligned with the comprehensive plan so that's why we are asking and encouraging your feedback on how we should approach [50:45] this if it's a path considering prd4 with some variances or if we should be [50:51] considering a PUD for the flexibility that director Teague noted previously um [50:56] we really encourage uh your feedback do you want to go through these [51:03] a bit or sure I can um one of the concerns [51:09] that was expressed last year was around um access to nearby services and [51:15] amenities and so this uh slide lays out um what is available everything on this [51:21] map is within less than 3/4 of a mile or 15 a 15minute walk so [51:27] um and that includes um bus routes the uh Southwest Light Rail station will be [51:33] uh less than 3/4 of a mile away once completed um and uh an important [51:38] reminder that we got from our service provider Touchstone mental health is that many of the residents especially [51:45] the residents who will be in the Supportive Housing units um utilize services like Metro Mobility um to for [51:53] transportation to access these services so we're we're confident that um between [51:58] being able to walk to many places and also having access to other forms of transportation that access won't be an [52:06] issue so this is the last slide in our presentation excuse me uh since our [52:11] funding has come together we have uh now we're now focused on the city approval process and to uh to address a question [52:19] that came up previously the $2.5 million ask um has not changed um and we [52:26] received contingent approval for that last year um but to to explain what's on this slide um our timeline is largely [52:34] dictated To Us by mhfa Minnesota Housing Finance Agency um with their deadlines [52:40] and requirements specifically construction must be complete and the building must be occupied by the end of [52:46] 2026 and that that may seem like a ways out but um you know if the building is [52:52] not occupied by the end of 2026 we lose our mhfa funding so working backwards [52:58] that means that the sewer and Watershed permits must be secured and construction [53:03] must begin in early 2025 and to hit that construction timing [53:08] the next three months are critical uh we plan on initiating a traffic and parking study later this month and submitting a [53:15] formal uh land use application in early April uh we need land use approval from [53:21] the Planning Commission and city council this may in order to begin the permitting process [53:27] and to address how this all ties to the small area plan uh as manager hackinson [53:33] mentioned in her report uh the small area plan was authorized months after we had submitted mhfa and met Council [53:40] funding applications so and it explicitly stated that there is no moratorium on development during the [53:46] small area plan process so given the very strict timing requirements from [53:51] mhfa uh we will parallel path our project with the small area plan as say [53:56] we would lose the mhf mhfa funding if we were to wait till the small area plan is [54:02] complete so with that uh we thank you for your time and uh welcome your feedback and questions on our revised [54:08] sketch plan thank you looking around yeah [54:18] jurry uh yes Mr Dixit uh so your last statements about L [54:24] um MH fa funding [54:30] um you say you lose it is that is that a real thing or or is [54:37] that something you go back and talk to them or no unfort they they put it [54:43] somewhere else but that's no unfortunately um we receive 9% tax [54:48] credits which are um very scarce competitive funding source and they are [54:53] federal funds so um there's no flexibility with the federal funds and [54:58] one of the requirements uh for those for that particular funding is this occupancy deadline which is three years [55:06] after the award which for us is end of 2026 I don't know if you can answer it [55:11] but so does this become a key block that if that falls other thing [55:17] or but I I know that's a tough question but I mean what you're saying is that [55:23] money could be gone would be gone and whether the project [55:29] survives that's another big question yes yes I okay I will thank [55:41] you day all right so let's uh address the the sewer question real quick so [55:49] obviously timing here your timeline is very dependent on things moving in a fairly rapid order and as we're all well [55:56] where cities don't exactly always move in the most rapid order um what do you [56:02] have like a level of confidence or concern about dealing with the city of minetonka and getting them to play ball [56:09] um quickly enough to meet this timeline in terms of getting approval getting commitment you know how's that [56:15] discussion going we mentioned that it's upcoming but you know that there's some back and for a lot of back and forth [56:21] still but seems a pretty aggressive timeline for you know a back and forth that needs to occur between two ities [56:26] since the um city engineer is not here tonight I'm going to defer to director Teague for [56:34] that that timeline is tight um I would have some concerns about it as well um [56:41] you know we're gonna get those discussions started as soon as we can um [56:47] but I'm concerned about a May land use approval I'm not you know we haven't even started the traffic study yet so [56:54] there's a lot of pieces that like you had mentioned the city process [57:00] sometimes can move slowly you know there's notification requirements public hearing requirements traffic study needs [57:06] to be done so we're not going to get ahead of oursel on those things in terms [57:11] of the sewer issue approvals could be [57:17] contingent on minetonka agreeing to that and if they don't well then the [57:22] Project's dead um so those are some of the options moving forward but the the time frame is [57:29] tight well and I think this also speaks to the point that um uh chair Bennett [57:36] that you made around I'm sorry is a chair I'm sitting in one I guess yeah um [57:43] about this um unique and uh you use the word unfortunate timing situation um and [57:53] so we we feel that urgency and and we realize that it's in everyone's best [57:59] interest to answer all these questions as quickly as [58:06] possible and I I'll just add a little bit Jason Lord from soulan some companies um the just first of [58:12] background on this the sewer issue um that has been in the discussion between different engineering groups since um [58:19] 2021 so several years now and so there's been several studies that uh the city [58:24] has done and we've identified there is currently excess capacity at Sana Road [58:29] um across the way in uh minetonka so the engineers have been working on it for several years so just to reassure that [58:36] it's not something that has come up just at the last um minute but it is something that needs to get resolved at [58:42] the last minute yeah I guess my concern would be you know discussion and decision are [58:48] very different things right and I would worry that the city of Minon would push back and so it's excess capacity now but [58:54] they obviously have their plans for that area you know across 169 there and if they lose that then they face having to [59:02] pay for additional capacity in the future right so just something that you know I think is is kind of a Dark Cloud [59:08] hanging over this a little bit but I mean if if you're question is a yes no question are we concerned yes yeah no [59:16] well I just I'm just gauging the discuss how the discussion's been going again timeline Etc [59:22] right um all right so moving on from the sewer the I think one of the biggest [59:27] changes here from the last sketch plan is the including is the including Town Homes rather than having you know simply [59:34] one big development you walk through you know I mean it's I think it's a welcome change um why that decision was made [59:41] reducing you know well the units number of units stayed the same I can't recall if you said overall initial proposed [59:49] okay so why so why go to town homes instead of I mean I just would like to hear um what the thought process was [59:56] behind that um so I'll yes um if it ties [1:00:02] to all the things we heard last year um there was um feedback around what is [1:00:10] this going to look like is it going to feel like a community um and then also the height the massing and by splitting [1:00:18] it apart a little bit um and carving out the four bedroom units into their own town home building it allows the 81 unit [1:00:26] main apartment building to be three stories so if we were to add those four bedroom units into it I might require a [1:00:33] fourth story um and that might not be addressing those height concerns sure [1:00:38] okay makes sense um I guess laughs here before I I don't want to take too much [1:00:44] away questions away from fellow Commissioners but so we do have you know in our in our codes and ordinances right [1:00:51] there's a um specific section around PUD and it says you know purpose and intent of p is include most all the following [1:00:57] and there's certainly I think I'm double checking here nine uh things that we're [1:01:02] aiming to achieve through PUD um you know I think some of these I can gleam I can understand on my own um I think it'd [1:01:10] be good for the residents to hear more around um Point number three which is [1:01:17] the incorporating design elements that exceed the city standards um Desir [1:01:22] Design Elements you know sustainable design greater utilization of new new technologies and building design special [1:01:28] construction materials Landscaping lighting storm water all that right I think it's I think it' be great to exp [1:01:35] expand on that a little bit sure I can touch on that a little bit um as part of the mhfa funding application process [1:01:41] you're required to comply with green communities which is kind of a sustainable uh scoring system if you [1:01:46] will uh IT addresses a multitude of different um strategies that can be implemented on on the site and as part [1:01:52] of the application you identify which uh Strate iies that you're going to be uh [1:01:58] targeting for that site so um on that aspect there will be a strong [1:02:03] sustainability component um to the development itself um we haven't really gotten into the exterior architectural [1:02:10] design just quite yet we wanted to get feedback and ensure that this site plan and sketch plan concept was um headed in [1:02:17] the right direction for sure um but that would definitely be one of the items that we' be addressing at um a formal [1:02:24] application and and um shall We Touch [1:02:31] on and really it it we' had this conversation with uh director Teague [1:02:36] that uh we were kind of at a a little bit of loss as do we try and propose going prd4 with some variances or is the [1:02:45] Pud really the correct mechanism to try and get it more in alignment with the guidance for this site U from the comp [1:02:52] comprehensive plan um so that's kind of where where it's it's a little bit um [1:02:57] less defined as what the ask is we're kind of looking for your feedback or guidance as to what you think the [1:03:04] correct mechanism is uh for obtaining um us doing the applic application for this [1:03:10] project does that make sense yes okay yeah thank you all right one more question before I move on um so I forgot [1:03:19] to ask you this car while you're up there but you mentioned that the traffic study hasn't been done yet right and a key point in this is in terms of [1:03:25] maintaining or improving the efficiency of public streets so how when will we hear more about that traffic study and [1:03:32] what's is there any initial thought on how this would impact traffic in that in that area yeah we have not author the [1:03:40] way the traffic studies um work is the city puts together a scope of what we're [1:03:46] looking for what we need to see within the study you know and includes you know not just traffic but biking pedestrian [1:03:52] those things so we've put that scope together our traffic consultant has provided an estimate for what that's [1:03:59] going to cost the developer then pays those costs and we have them start we've [1:04:04] not started that yet um generally takes them about a month maybe longer to [1:04:10] complete the study but we would not bring any project forward without having [1:04:15] that in in hand in hand in advance of the Planning Commission meeting so our [1:04:21] staff has time to um provide comment on it as well thank you that's it for me [1:04:28] for now yeah coming from [1:04:36] Miranda sure so um excuse me uh let me start off by saying um thank you for not [1:04:42] having a tiop facing a National Highway 169 that's a huge Improvement um in [1:04:49] terms of uh you know whether you whether you go for um [1:04:56] uh PUD or not so um Carrie so if you can help me with [1:05:02] this so with the with the Pud we can require affordable housing but this is like an affordable housing project [1:05:09] already right so they're going through they've got money from M MF [1:05:14] mfha right so does that Force us to be an affordable housing project now or not [1:05:19] necessarily uh yes yep it would be required to in order to receive all of [1:05:25] those funds it has to be affordable housing okay [1:05:31] yes what's the question go ahead yeah so he yeah I just [1:05:36] I was gonna add on to that I have the same question you do and I won't take any more of your time but how how long [1:05:44] does this need to be affordable yeah it's part of just through the mhfa process yeah as part of the application [1:05:51] um we've committed to 30 plus years of affordability um with the caveat that [1:05:57] we've started discussions on the the eight town home units and the [1:06:02] possibility of converting those to ownership after the initial 15-year affordability period [1:06:08] okay okay and we've also had an issue where the um commission and Council [1:06:16] approved um a project 70th in France and that um I believe had affordable housing [1:06:22] in it and then became a 14 stor parking ramp at some point because it was [1:06:28] rezoned we approved the zoning before I mean I guess you have to approve the zoning before it gets built but then [1:06:33] they Chang plans because of covid and whatnot so there's still a possibility no matter what we do of things getting [1:06:40] changed or all right so in terms of if we went to PUD I guess or PRD if they changed [1:06:49] the plans they would have to come back for approval similar to what the 70th in France project did [1:06:57] okay and then another Trend I'm seeing in the city is that in the past three years or so is that projects where the [1:07:04] city has pushed down the amount of density in a project then they can't get funding from Banks because there's it [1:07:11] doesn't pay out enough or whatever so you have funding from M [1:07:17] mhfa and uh commitment from the city do you foresee any issues with finalizing [1:07:23] this from a from a funding standpoint we're uh just about fully funded okay um [1:07:29] so you know the mhfa funding makes up a little bit over 60% of the total project costs uh and [1:07:36] then met Council Adina um obviously the first mortgage so so no we don't um we [1:07:44] don't see any concerns with the funding okay I think the layout of the project [1:07:49] is uh better than it was before um we had concerns about the amount of parking [1:07:54] uh surface working um it does seem like [1:08:00] the you know this is an opportunity where there could have been denser housing and we're kind of skipping on [1:08:05] that but you seem okay with that so I guess I I don't have any other further comment on that but um otherwise I think [1:08:11] this as much improved thank you thank you pH [1:08:28] so will you tell me a little bit about the players involved solheim you [1:08:33] Touchstone and then the property um management company and kind [1:08:38] of like how long everybody's going to be involved in the process and um what their responsibilities are sure so [1:08:46] solhem we're the sponsor developer um and we will continue to own uh the [1:08:53] property one of the requirements with with affordable housing that's different from market rate housing is um we are [1:09:00] required to hold the property for at least 15 years uh so our involvement [1:09:05] will be at least 15 years once it's open um C Wilson Architects is our architect [1:09:12] partner um and then on the property management side uh Property Solutions and services they have over 35 years of [1:09:20] property management experience in Minnesota exclusively in affordable housing [1:09:26] management um and you know if you have any specific questions Patrick can come up and answer those uh and then our [1:09:32] service provider and what that means is uh we have 18 of the 89 total units uh [1:09:38] are Supportive Housing units and uh those 18 units those 18 households will [1:09:45] receive resident support from Touchstone mental health um and Chris is here uh [1:09:51] and and it's a very individualized case management um setup where they work with the [1:09:58] individuals in those or households in those units um to determine what support [1:10:04] they need it could be Transportation it could be mental health support you know the whole spectrum of possible support [1:10:10] and they provide that they also have been around for 40 plus years uh doing [1:10:15] this uh in Minnesota and um you know just and and I think an important um [1:10:22] part that I'll mention is Touchstone and property Solutions and services they are [1:10:27] already partnered on four affordable housing projects around the Twin City so they have a great working relationship [1:10:34] which is key to this I yeah I I agree I think that's important too I mean having [1:10:39] those players have some experience and be in there especially um for those supportive a um aspects of it I think [1:10:45] that's a really great thing to do and um I appreciate that um [1:10:56] and then I appreciate the and I don't know um I'll ask my questions and I'll [1:11:02] give you my thoughts um you had mentioned a little bit [1:11:08] earlier but the next item on our agenda tonight is regarding the small area plan [1:11:13] that includes this property as well as those to the north and south and um you [1:11:19] know I hope and I believe that we're going to move forward with that still because those other areas are also [1:11:26] included in that we want to give the neighborhood a say in some of those pieces because of all of this has come [1:11:32] up and you had mentioned a little bit um earlier about being in parallel with that um I know you've got your own [1:11:38] deadlines and your fundings to go but as that moves forward [1:11:43] um um I guess I'm just asking about your interest in um following that or [1:11:51] learning from that absolutely you know we uh we see this as being both in parallel [1:12:00] and as part of the small area plan um we we are not trying to fight the small [1:12:05] area plan it's happening and and we understand why yeah um we also [1:12:11] understand um our the timeline that has been dictated to us yeah so we uh we [1:12:17] have no choice but to parallel path and be part of this process thank you um so [1:12:24] smaller questions I um um do the town homes have their own garages yes they [1:12:29] will okay um I like that the parking is below ground or sandwich between the two [1:12:38] buildings um I doo like the not only where the Tot Lot is located but that it [1:12:43] has a view to the um East um I think that's very nice [1:12:49] um I appreciate the reduction in the scope of the project and I think um from [1:12:56] my recollection listening to the city council meeting it was um council member [1:13:01] Pierce that asked for Town um home so I I appreciated seeing that um I like how [1:13:08] that scales down to the neighborhood um I think the density is important um [1:13:17] and I that this density is similar to Laden although this is a smaller project [1:13:24] than the loaden um I appreciate that as well um oh I had one question about your your radius map [1:13:32] um and this is a detail question and I think I'm the orange dot says bus train [1:13:41] stop um because the because the dark orange is the Light Rail station what's [1:13:48] is that it's just a bus stop right oh yes just a bu okay I was [1:13:57] wondering what I didn't know about so I appreciate the clarification [1:14:08] um so tell me again a little bit more about your so the 9% [1:14:14] mhfa Minnesota housing funding Association Finance Finance Agency [1:14:20] there's 60% of your budget um and then um you have this [1:14:27] um uh contingency fee from the city where's some of the other financing coming from actually have a reference [1:14:34] slide here that lays out our Capital stack so you see that uh we're actually getting two funds uh two sources of [1:14:42] funds from mhfa they add up to over 60% um the Adina contingent commitment uh is [1:14:49] about 6 and a half% and then you see met Council 5% uh we solhem are deferring [1:14:57] 43% of the fees that um would come our way um and that makes up 4% and then [1:15:04] henpen County funds uh which we um expect to be secured in a couple months [1:15:10] uh that'll make up 3% and then the mortgage um is about 20% okay and then [1:15:16] so how long are you deferring those fees it's over 15 years over 15 [1:15:23] years um I also really appreciate that the town homes may be [1:15:29] um at some point I mean rent to own or could be potentially converted to [1:15:36] um that would be a nice thing coming from all of these funding sources if you know someone could own a home um out of [1:15:43] that so I appreciate that and I don't [1:15:51] know and you can do it now keep going okay I'm going to let you know um I'm I [1:15:58] still think going for the Pud is probably the right thing to do um just so we can write in there that the [1:16:04] affordable housing even though it's an affordable housing project and for 30 years that we can write in there that [1:16:10] it's an affordable housing project um so I would suggest going that way but I'm [1:16:15] sure there are other reasons for other ones [Music] um like I said earlier I like that it is [1:16:23] similar in um the density as the load in although [1:16:28] not quite as large as that project [Music] um I like the partnership you have with [1:16:36] Touchstone and the property manage it because I think a well-maintained property will kind of keep its value and I think that's important here in Adina [1:16:44] um and I think people should live close to their work I think there's lots of opportunities for doing that around this [1:16:50] area and up and down 169 um and I think there's dignity in [1:16:56] work and if your work can't afford you a large house um you know that doesn't mean you should be um off somewhere else [1:17:03] I mean the single family residence is a very American model and a lovely thing to be able to have a yard but there are [1:17:10] a lot of different ways to kind of live our lives in condos or um multifloor [1:17:16] buildings and so um I appreciate that their families they're going to be able to live here and um and I appreciate the [1:17:24] opportunities as project is creating for our community um I [1:17:30] also like the fact that we're not putting all of affordable [1:17:36] housing in one area that we're putting it around the city um I wish there were more opportunities for that hopefully [1:17:42] with some of the things coming up we have some more opportunities for that [1:17:47] um and I'm really glad about the town homes so that's it thank you very much much [1:17:55] thank you thank you any more questions or any [1:18:00] comments you have any questions yeah two all right yeah thank can you just remind [1:18:07] us what afford when you say it's going to be affordable did you say it's going to be 100% affordable yes what that [1:18:13] really means you know economically for for who might qualify to live here like [1:18:19] what would the rents be can you remind us of that yes I thought I had the refence [1:18:24] slide but um if you give me one second I can tell you the [1:18:31] um 60 so 100% affordable and what that means is [1:18:36] 66 of the 89 units will be for households at the 50% Ami level below [1:18:43] and the remaining 23 units will be um for at the 30% Ami level or below and um [1:18:51] in terms of what that translates into for rent give me one second here okay so the uh [1:19:00] the 30% Ami units are going to be Studios and one-bedrooms and there's one [1:19:05] two-bedroom um these are 2023 figures so change but to give you an idea for a [1:19:13] studio uh 30% Ami uh household the the rent limit is [1:19:19] $652 okay uh for a one-bedroom $699 um 50% Ami and that's primarily two [1:19:26] three and four bedroom units um two-bedroom is [1:19:32] 1397 three bedroom is 1651 or 1615 and four bedrooms is 1801 okay oh that's [1:19:40] helpful I think it gives people the ability to think about just who it's affordable for in [1:19:48] that kind of thing and then I just had one other kind of random question but we [1:19:54] remember last time you guys came here there was like some public space like maybe towards the freeway and I I think [1:20:00] it flipped around and now it's on the inside of of the um the apartments how [1:20:06] like how large just approximately is that playground space and that courtyard space I couldn't totally tell just from [1:20:13] the the graphic I don't recall off the top of my head but I'll try and get an estimate [1:20:22] so can't zoom in here to make it a little bit more uh legible but to give you a concept uh the cross-section of [1:20:30] the building is about 64 feet wide so this area I would get estimate is a [1:20:35] little bit smaller than that you're probably looking at about 55 ft this way and maybe about 35 ft this way um so [1:20:41] it's a large open space um there will be playground equipment but then also some grassy area to just kind of throw a FR [1:20:48] frisbee or play okay family that is that area like the area to the east that we [1:20:54] see depicted here are you talking this area over here um it's contiguous so [1:21:00] there would be like kind of designed all together okay thanks appreciate [1:21:07] it can I ask a follow-up question You' mentioned the 23 of the [1:21:14] units are 30% Ami and there were 18 units for um so 18 of those 23 units I'm [1:21:20] assuming are for the um How do you Supportive Housing Supportive Housing is [1:21:26] that NE Divergent and nine are nine of the 18 are high priority homeless and [1:21:34] the other nine are people with [1:21:42] disabilities you ask two questions did you get them both all [1:21:47] right nice uh I got probably three questions [1:21:54] too first one's for carry and maybe just some of it might be repetitive [1:22:00] but again with the comprehensive plan guiding this toward office [1:22:06] residential you know we don't have zoning that's office residential we have office or residential or mixed use so [1:22:14] just so people understand like when you see that designation what are reasonable [1:22:20] uses that would be proposed to match that besides either all residential all office a mix I if you [1:22:29] could Quick Share that yeah it was anticipated well the density range being [1:22:35] 20 units to 75 units an acre so that could be a range from town homes to [1:22:40] Apartments um in terms of the office use um any type of medical office or as I [1:22:49] mentioned the site is zoned light industrial so um industrial uses would be allowed there as well that's one [1:22:56] thing maybe we need to with our zoning ordin zoning audit that's happening do [1:23:01] we want to distinguish between industrial and office uses because really our zoning within our all of our [1:23:09] industrial districts allow office and this is currently zoned [1:23:14] industrial it's zoned industrial but yeah guided that office for office and residential uses correct okay and then [1:23:22] think you answered my questions with PUD PD you guys are open to [1:23:29] either uh other one neighboring site to the north uh can you speak to who owns that [1:23:37] and it appears you are sharing a private driveway it's a is the name of it um the [1:23:44] Minneapolis area of Realtors it's an office building and so that that has worked out to kind of share that [1:23:52] driveway still I just because that changed from the last plan so yes that's an existing shared easement in and out [1:24:00] and that was one of the ways that we were working to minimize curb Cuts is use the existing access way to access [1:24:06] all the vehicular parking great wanted to make sure and then [1:24:12] um talked about the units I think you showed the unit mix but just in total If This Were to go as is how many new [1:24:21] neighbors would be here residence yeah bedrooms or I guess [1:24:28] Studios too so bedrooms [1:24:33] um do some quick the upper left shows you know the [1:24:40] number of units by type um and um two people per room are [1:24:49] allowed so I can do the quick math like 170 or so right so [1:24:55] okay or is that too high more more [1:25:01] yeah but you're not adding the bottom two yeah those are repetitive right yeah [1:25:07] just the studio one bedroom two bedroom three bedroom four bedroom in the upper [1:25:13] left that adds up to 89 yep [1:25:24] right I'm saying that adds up to 89 units and then we'd have to go by bedrooms multip any [1:25:33] idea I thought that'd be an easier [1:25:38] question maybe we'll give you a chance to do that it's not that was kind of my [1:25:45] last question before comment so I came up with 187 [1:25:52] 187 my Math's wrong right so that [1:26:03] there just throw it in a [1:26:09] spreadsheet we're I didn't know this was the math bow but we're doing it I think I'm [1:26:20] right 2000 right okay [1:26:31] 356 okay so we're we're in the realm of yes [1:26:37] okay did I hear the the rumbles have kind of sold down is it around 350 to [1:26:46] 400 okay 374 okay [1:26:54] mhm how many people would be in a studio one right usually okay there's two oh that's the [1:27:01] difference yeah yeah 374 that's right 374 okay 374 [1:27:09] let's add that to the slide deck for the city council yes please we upate that [1:27:18] okay I'm sorry thought that was an easy question but [1:27:24] okay so all right that's all I had for questions um I'm happy to share comments [1:27:30] but if anyone else has yep yep commission dat uh one last question that [1:27:35] came to mind was around could you go back to I think it was I wrote down one you have kid currently has 1.26 parking [1:27:43] spots per unit correct um how fleshed out is that number like in terms of your experience with other developments and [1:27:49] stuff like that like for a four bedroom you know one 1.2 parking spots perun it might not be [1:27:55] quite enough and then you kind of have like there's not a a a lot of additional parking around that around the [1:28:01] development and to the north I'm assuming they don't want you taking their parking so where do that overflow [1:28:07] go if you have it it's a good question I don't we've done sever yeah I'll just [1:28:15] address that a little bit but we've uh done other projects in Edina and other similar areas um similarly around this [1:28:22] 1.25 uh parking r ratio and we've had many extra stalls you know it's depending we can get some general [1:28:29] surveys of the Stalls um required for affordable type buildings but you know [1:28:34] there is no parking on Lincoln or on London daras we're all aware so it's um you know to the project and our benefit [1:28:41] to provide the adequate number of stalls and based on our past experience um we think the the guidance is right in line [1:28:47] with providing plenty of stalls for the project [1:28:54] okay just one other thing to as we've benchmarked other um affordable housing [1:28:59] projects one thing we've learned is um vast majority of these households um [1:29:06] have one car so that's just one thing to keep in mind when thinking about sure are they allocated by unit or is it I [1:29:13] mean like if one unit has say they want three SP three stalls is there how does that process [1:29:20] work we haven't gotten to that point yet of like how many are Reserve versus sure open [1:29:28] okay because I just wonder if the demand exceeds availability right then you can end up with a bit of a problem in terms [1:29:34] of congestion and overflow and stuff like that right okay director t on that note is that the one of the things that [1:29:40] would come from the traffic and parking study it would okay which will be [1:29:49] completed that was my last question [1:29:55] want to go around and share comments final feedback commissioner felt if you got any new maybe you want to just [1:30:01] reiterate what you said quick just if the council's watching it keeps it clean from now seriously if you don't mind [1:30:09] just [1:30:19] thanks part of the site is on 169 in the town homes are on the east side [1:30:25] um it's not as large a project as the load in I think the load in is 250 units [1:30:30] this is 89 units um I like that the parking is [1:30:37] underground for the building and I like that it's between the buildings for some kind of visitor kind of Open Spaces I [1:30:44] like where the playground is I like that the playground has a view to the East [1:30:49] and can move over to that East Side I like the connection to the trail [1:30:56] um and the my other thoughts are around affordable housing in general um I think [1:31:03] people should be able to live close to work I think it's difficult sometimes to find places close in the city for work I [1:31:10] think there's um opportunities really close to here for work and up and down [1:31:16] 169 for work um and I also think there [1:31:21] is dignity in whatever work you do you know if you're working 40 hours a week and making $5 or $20 an hour $45,000 a [1:31:29] year you still have um um you know still people want to live [1:31:37] decently in decent places um so um I think once again the dignity in work I [1:31:43] mean just because everybody can't afford a house with a yard doesn't mean um they can't live in a good neighborhood in a [1:31:49] good city and go to good schools and um you know have a place to kind of ride [1:31:55] their bike and and be a part of the community um and I also like that we are [1:32:02] Distributing um the affordable housing throughout the city I wish there were more opportunities to do that um and I [1:32:09] hope we get to do that in the future with some of the um things that we have coming up and I think there was one um [1:32:18] oh I really like that there are town homes on the east side of this and that it steps down towards the neighborhood [1:32:23] and kind of steps up towards 169 and I think that was asked the town homes were asked by the city council and I [1:32:29] appreciate you responding to them on that one there you [1:32:36] go yeah so um I think that the uh the fact that you meet the parking [1:32:42] requirements suggests that uh there'll be plenty of parking for this because sadina has pretty high parking [1:32:47] requirements um and the fact that you've got so many multi- room units um you're [1:32:54] not going to have you know you're not going to have two cars per bedroom you know the way you might have with a [1:32:59] single uh bedroom or whatever um so so that all sounds very reasonable to me [1:33:04] does so actually one question just kind of popped up the um when you have a [1:33:10] affordable housing project so the parking is included as part of the price of rent it is okay yes okay [1:33:19] um so I also like uh you know reiterating some of the things that commissioner felt said but um uh it is [1:33:27] close to Transit and as you as your diagram pointed out um there's going to be uh when it opens someday uh it'll be [1:33:36] uh within 3/4 of a mile of that which is very convenient it's easily bikable um walkable it's kind of long but uh [1:33:42] bikable it's easily bikable um or even if you take a car there right or if a member of the household one takes one [1:33:49] uses a car one uses Transit that sort of thing um the trail is right there so if they have a job that's in a dino or near [1:33:55] a dino or along the trail in Hopkins or minetonka um they can easily bike to their job that way so it gives a lot of [1:34:02] flexibility this is a really great area to have affordable housing um it's kind of unfortunate that it's right up along [1:34:08] 169 um but there are plenty of apartment buildings in the cities that are along freeways so um apparently it's not a [1:34:14] problem um like I said I was a little worried that the density seems a little low for an area like this where you're [1:34:20] right next to a highway and there's you know very tall buildings across the across the highway there um um I thought [1:34:27] five stories was fine for for this area but this this is a nice project um uh [1:34:33] and as commissioner phelp mentioned the the Tot Lot not being on the highway is a nice thing um and uh overall I think [1:34:41] it's a a great place unfortunately I think this will be the most affordable housing we'll probably have in this in [1:34:46] this quadrant of a din so there's not a lot of places to build affordable housing so I guess I'm glad that it's [1:34:51] 100% affordable for that reason um but uh no I think this is a nice [1:34:57] project and uh in a perfect location thank you thank [1:35:04] you okay so comments here will be two parts um the first part really has to do [1:35:11] around actual sketch plan since that's the most important thing that we're going through tonight so I think from [1:35:17] high level the this is a massive improvement over what we saw originally which was really just a great box so [1:35:23] there wasn't a whole lot to go on there um I think the addition of town homes is [1:35:29] you know a welcome one the layout has much improved um I still I'm a little [1:35:35] weary about you know the parking and I asked a question there and where that goes if that overflows and [1:35:40] whatnot um you know walkability around the unit you know so people don't [1:35:45] probably want to walk along 169 but if you can put a path [1:35:51] completely surrounding this property I think it would be to advantages of the resident and the the property to the [1:35:57] north if they want to go rather than go around your unit to cut directly back through um so overall I think you know [1:36:05] we're aiming to accomplish here is is good um the second part about this and you [1:36:11] know it's it really is more for when we get into discussion about approval and whatnot but um I think it's worth [1:36:16] mentioning so you know there's definitely thoughts about the fit of [1:36:22] this particular development on this particular site um you know I had the [1:36:27] privilege several months ago to meet with uh a group of residents from the area who were kind enough to talk with [1:36:34] me and drive me around and share their ideas for what they Envision the of the future of their neighborhood um you know [1:36:41] and it really was that experience that led me to become one of the chairs of the um small area plan working group [1:36:48] right and I'm looking forward to that opportunity and continuing that discussion with those residents um and [1:36:53] it you know I'll I'll dress the elephant in the room right so I think there's a [1:36:59] lot of people here tonight because we're talking about affordable housing um but [1:37:04] there's a lot I think we want to avoid making assumptions about that so if you know if you've already decided that [1:37:11] those who are opposed to this development are doing so only because it's affordable housing right then I en [1:37:16] encourage you to keep an open mind and really talk with the residents in the neighborhood and and just listen to their thoughts and what they have to say [1:37:22] and what their looking for and whatnot I same time you know there certainly are [1:37:28] people that are opposed this simply because it's affordable housing um and if that's the case right then I [1:37:33] encourage you those people to talk with the uh D neighbors for affordable housing listen to what they have to SP [1:37:39] say um they have a lot of fine information that they've shared with me in shared with me in the past and with [1:37:45] with our Council and stuff in terms of what does affordable housing look like what does that truly mean where do the [1:37:51] numbers from the Met Council come from Etc right so it's not just you know I I [1:37:57] think there's a lot of people and a lot of dialogue has gone emails and stuff have been sent to us saying people are [1:38:02] only opposing this because it's affordable housing or vice versa right and that's I think it's not really the [1:38:09] truth right I like I said I was the only Planning Commission member to meet with the residents of the neighborhood and [1:38:15] and get receive that feedback but it certainly didn't set none of that discussion centered around affordable housing it really centered around what [1:38:22] do we want to see in our neighborhood going forward and we talk about the timing of the small area plan right and [1:38:28] people think it seems reactive or almost right it was intentional to push back and push that forward to try to delay [1:38:34] this development but I mean to be honest really right it's change that Spurs action from communities right when [1:38:41] they're when they are faced with the threat of change that's when they finally are say wait wait wait wait a [1:38:47] second what do I want my neighborhood to look like right so this site [1:38:54] um you know I it's the area surrounded to the north the south and east by [1:38:59] residential zoning and it's really one of the few Parcels of land in West in [1:39:04] that we have that's dedicated to something other than residential use um when I think about the comprehensive [1:39:11] plan I looked through a lot of different things to try to help shape my opinion tonight um one thing that I came across [1:39:19] was a a vision and D survey result so we talked about said that 52% of residents [1:39:25] um survey respondents sorry had a strong preference of live and work local um [1:39:30] options in contrast the communting elsewhere right and commissioner phelp mentioned that but really we don't have [1:39:37] many opportunities to work in a Dina if we keep seeding PID and PCD districts to [1:39:43] residential areas right so as somebody that has to travel quite far out of AD din for my job if we're eliminating PID [1:39:50] and eliminating business no potential business knowns right then there really doesn't exist many opportunity to work [1:39:56] within a Dina you are forced to travel um it's great that we're close to mass [1:40:03] transit here um but you also are basically saying to the residents that live there now that they are going to [1:40:10] have to continue to travel away from their neighborhood in order to get goods and services right so I think that's you [1:40:17] know it makes me pause a little bit um another thing here there was I was [1:40:23] reading again through um some of the documentation associated with the workshops and the comprehensive plan um [1:40:30] one of the workshops that stood out to me was this the Big Ideas workshop and I [1:40:35] think commissioner Miranda looked like from pictures that you may have been there you can correct me if I'm wrong um [1:40:41] but some of the ideas that came out of that workshop and that were highlighted in big bow lettering were neighborhoods [1:40:47] all need a node node should be different these are all on posted so sorry if it sounds disjointed but ability to get [1:40:53] around without a car make commercial development throughout a dino walkable destination nodes essential services in [1:41:00] in residential neighborhoods mixed use areas with neighborhood commercial nodes gathering places art galleries Gardens [1:41:07] enable live and work nodes attractive to emerging technology and medical device companies there's quite a few right but [1:41:13] I think it centers around really the fact that people want to have nodes that are worth traveling to that are close to [1:41:19] where they live and if again if we see this to residential devel M it becomes increasingly difficult for that portion [1:41:26] of West to and those residents to access resources without having to hop in their car or I guess mass transit if the light [1:41:33] rail really truly ever does come to this area maybe 27 maybe 28 29 after another [1:41:40] two and a half billion dollars perhaps um but so those are all great well thought out ideas right and my [1:41:48] problem is that this development really doesn't meet does really doesn't do any of those things and kind of undermines [1:41:53] what we're trying to accomplish with that so once we see again once we see that land we don't get we really don't get it back [1:42:01] um I think back to a couple different meetings that we've had in the Planning Commission so if if you're listening to [1:42:08] me right now and you're not familiar with other positions that I've taken when we had the discussion around the [1:42:14] Cahill District um this this is consistent with how I felt about that District as well I don't like to see us [1:42:21] continue to eliminate p Andor commercial opportunities for the city uh only 2% of [1:42:27] ad is actually currently zoned for p and really allows for you know that that type of view um you know we can do mixed [1:42:34] use options here but obviously your residential site right there is no potential really right now for [1:42:40] restaurant coffee shop any really Community engagement in this site um that's going to be left to the remaining [1:42:46] areas that will have to then try to plan for in the small area plan so that's a bit difficult [1:42:54] um so yeah I mean I guess I keep standing around the same point so the kahill district and then there was [1:42:59] another review that we had about there was a moose drool chocolate site that we talked about [1:43:05] um and you know the discussion we had there the developer stated that and some [1:43:11] of the commissioning members here um said that it the store would be a place you know storefront would be a place [1:43:16] where residents could intermingle that' be a place that would bring a shared sense of community and it was really [1:43:22] cited as a selling point in improving that application um you know again with this development I think we lose a [1:43:29] valuable piece of land that can be used for Community Connection for areas for residents to gather in and whatnot so [1:43:36] you know I we're certainly far away from approval process I can I do definitely struggle with and again it's not it has [1:43:43] nothing to do with the affordable piece of this and it really it just has to do with seeding continued land in a Dina [1:43:50] and making it basically a residential desert in terms of everybody has to now travel outside of AD especially if [1:43:56] you're on the western side and not close to Southdale um those opportunities are taken away I mean it'd be really nice if [1:44:02] the 9M Creek Trail actually had a destination on the western end rather than just the Opus campus or op opum [1:44:08] whatever um you could ride your bike there to get you know haircut you could ride to hardware store whatever it may [1:44:15] be right it's it's great access for the your your residents but if we open that [1:44:21] up and say there's a destination at the end that they're a node that's that's everybody's benefit too [1:44:27] so long winded I thanks for bearing with me through that but um it's it's [1:44:32] definitely you know it's like I said I I try to be consistent on here and I I struggle with this particular [1:44:39] development on this particular site right um it's we have you know we [1:44:45] definitely need to achieve more affordable housing in the city it's an admirable goal uh but we need to make [1:44:51] sure that we do it in the right place and the right time and and whatnot what makes sense for all of our residents so [1:44:56] thanks thank you thank you Comm yes I I'm not going [1:45:04] to I just got basically I the commissioners before me have have covered um all the points [1:45:12] that I had I I do believe the Pu PUD is going to be the right process you know [1:45:18] to proceed on this um but the view that you have up really [1:45:24] um the building height the density um the the parking how it's [1:45:30] provided the playground I mean it's all captured I mean all of these have improved from the original project and I [1:45:36] think um what what you're showing here I think works it's got a uh the other view [1:45:42] which showed the kind of the topography the heights especially how it related to the other buildings up and down uh that [1:45:49] um and then there was another one kind of a street view um yeah I mean I think it fits in nicely [1:45:58] I think that town home um along is that Lincoln um yes uh gives it a very nice [1:46:05] face and the Landscaping as it's shown I think makes that a very attractive uh streetscape you know going [1:46:13] to I'm on that section uh on that bike path a lot I think that uh is going to [1:46:18] work very well um so I think the scale um Bringing Down the the overall building Heights and the town home it [1:46:26] sure it fits in there's a quite a um change in elevation from the south to [1:46:34] the to the going to the north so I mean it it fits in um very well um the the [1:46:40] one not a number of C curb cups I think there was a entrance into the property [1:46:46] more like mid block now utilizing the existing driveway I think that's uh [1:46:51] keeps that street very nice and un interrupted um so it's a good face good [1:46:56] scale um the the issue so maybe for the [1:47:02] issue with the the sanitary sewer I think that's going to be important that's going to settle a lot of things [1:47:08] and the other one affordable housing um no I guess what I want to say the small area [1:47:14] plan there's a there's a city approval process um the small area plan is sort [1:47:21] of I see as being a part of what's going to help the city you know for their [1:47:29] approval and then there's the Project's own timetable [1:47:34] um they don't well that's going to be the challenge to get them to meet up because [1:47:41] um I think the city's going to have to take the time the small area project needs to be thorough complete and [1:47:49] involved you know and part of the council as well as the planning commiss commissioner deliberation I don't know [1:47:55] that what I'm seeing you know doesn't make doesn't work you know so it's all [1:48:00] possible and I think commissioner D had a good um he talked about the early these vision and was it the big it was [1:48:07] some meeting Big Ideas and that's exactly right um this part [1:48:13] is uh an element of the small the whole area and I think uh residential here and [1:48:21] the strip mall with its fa facilities and others I mean I think that's that's [1:48:26] the big picture that's how this neighborhood how's it going to work and [1:48:31] no and and I think this as a one component seems to work with the other [1:48:37] so I think this could in fact be a real place a neighborhood I mean as the [1:48:43] neighbors feel now it is but I mean I it's been not in everybody's radar [1:48:50] about you know going here but I I think I happen to go through here a lot but no [1:48:55] I I um and then the affordable housing um that's that's that needs to be uh [1:49:04] worked out with with the neighborhood and the group and that that's going to have to be [1:49:10] understood so that's my comments thank [1:49:15] you Bor I'll be quick um thanks for your presentation and for answering all the [1:49:21] questions um I don't have any just I was [1:49:26] you guys came here asking for guidance about whether to try to rezone to a a residential designation or um PUD that's [1:49:34] what I kind of took the yes I don't know that I have a a clearcut strong feeling [1:49:39] on that um for a couple of reasons one you based on the revised proposal there's not I don't have significant [1:49:46] conerns about like the height the the Devi the height the density um setbacks [1:49:51] coverage things like that the deviations from from whatever residential district [1:49:57] you might ask to reone wouldn't be that significant on those um on those points [1:50:02] the usable area I think would be diff different and so if you elected to to rezone to seek one type of resoning [1:50:09] instead of another you might want to think about you know if you went that route how to why the nature of the site [1:50:14] you know justifies deviating more on usable area than maybe in setbacks or [1:50:20] something like that um but it's kind of up to you I think about what if you want to apply what what path you want to take [1:50:27] the the best thing about the project is the affordable component it's obviously a huge priority for the city um super [1:50:33] important for a variety of reasons the second best thing about it I think is that it it tries to thoughtfully at [1:50:39] least incorporate housing types that already exist in the neighborhood um there are town houses elsewhere and it [1:50:44] it kind of draws on that and then there's denser larger Apartments also within this exact small area and and [1:50:51] this is this is there's a housing type here that's accounted for elsewhere so I don't think it's like super [1:50:57] controversial at least from my perspective from that in that way the worst thing about it is that there's a [1:51:03] there's a small area plan process that's running parallel and sort of not not in conjunction with this and that makes and [1:51:09] there's just a general concern about change and what that should look like and and it's just a tough spot for us to [1:51:15] be in because we don't have anything to we don't have certain standards to apply to the to the application and then it's [1:51:20] tough for you because for the reasons you already explained [1:51:26] um and and so thinking and then I think you know typically a PUD would be more [1:51:34] important if we wanted to write in a requirement that affordability stay long term but if it's tied in already through [1:51:42] other funding you know limitations then maybe that's less less of a necessary route I again [1:51:49] why I'm kind of ambivalent between the two personally um I think so I don't have a strong [1:51:55] feeling about what type how you style your application but but just look I [1:52:00] mean some people are thing is people care about the site they care about they're going to care about the project [1:52:06] we've gotten feedback strongly in favor we've also gotten feedback opposed I think there's going to be significant [1:52:11] numbers of people that feel differently about it regardless of how you present it and given that there's ambiguity [1:52:17] around the small area process right now I think the best thing you guys can do um when you come to Pres present like a [1:52:23] more formal request is because you're out ahead of that planning process you know incorporate [1:52:29] whatever feedback you can whatever common themes you can glean from the community you know into that application [1:52:36] and account for them however you think you can best Do It um [1:52:43] and yeah and then I think we'll we'll just and then and then I think anytime [1:52:49] there's some ambiguity around a project it if a Project's higher quality if it if it if the architecture is good if it [1:52:56] uses high quality materials and it's going to look like something people can be proud of you know that goes a long [1:53:02] way and dispelling some kind of concerns too so we'll just have to wait and see what's presented and then we'll react to [1:53:08] it and we'll have to take in all the feedback procon and and kind of see how it lines up with what the vision is for [1:53:13] this area so um good luck and thanks for listening thank you thank you for your [1:53:21] feedback thank you all right yeah I'll share some of my feedback [1:53:28] uh great feedback from the rest of the Commissioners I I think I'll touch on most of that I won't try to hit on it [1:53:36] twice but uh I'll Focus kind of on the specifics to this request as if we're [1:53:42] looking at this project on its own um again as it relates to the zoning it [1:53:48] doesn't match but how this area is guided in the comprehensive plan this does match that's kind of what we said [1:53:54] or I said as part of the sketch plan a year ago why you know it's at least some [1:54:01] sort of sense of the community in this area was like more office or residential it wasn't office or industrial there was [1:54:10] a potential to see residential here I wasn't a part of why that got drawn [1:54:16] there um specifically but it seemed appropriate and so that's why this [1:54:23] request to me just you know seems appropriate uh so regarding the design [1:54:30] um and what you changed it was touched on before and on one of your previous [1:54:35] Pages you said the old plan had the Tot Lot in the middle and and we all remember it being like right on the [1:54:41] freeway so yeah see look at that yeah you moved it see that that was like on [1:54:46] the road anyways it's got updated anyways that that that's been improved and just [1:54:54] keep this slide up um I think commissioner dayit on it and others you [1:54:59] know this what we're looking at from a design aesthetic to an addition to a [1:55:05] neighborhood that has other people living around it and and ab buding it [1:55:10] the changes we're seeing tonight are very positive changes from that standpoint um and reflect definitely [1:55:17] some of our feedback and my personal feedback where [1:55:23] you know having some sort of buffer and tapering the height toward the freeway um keeping that where you did is [1:55:31] good putting a kind of buffer to create a courtyard in the center is a great [1:55:38] change I don't know if this is like the perfect layout here um but certainly as [1:55:44] you refine design design elements between [1:55:49] now and perhaps a formal request I'd encourage quite a bit more [1:55:55] articulation whether that is in height or you know with the tow houses along the road not just one big row house that [1:56:04] looks like it was done cheap I think to commissioner day's point you know we want to see this ex exceed kind of you [1:56:12] know any sort of baseline or standard uh I mean the amount of money that has been [1:56:17] awarded to this has sure unloaded a lot of the burden for you so it'd be good to [1:56:23] see that applied in kind of where this faces the neighbors and the neighborhood so those town hous houses are really a [1:56:30] key piece to that that is that is kind of the the face of it I'm not totally [1:56:37] sold necessarily on the L as it comes around that that was a a change that we kind of liked as it buffered that [1:56:44] potential interior Courtyard from the road but maybe to commissioner Miranda's [1:56:51] point I mean if if four stories were along the frontage road compared to three and you lopped off that bottom L [1:57:00] and that became more landscaping and opened up quite a bit more green space [1:57:06] to kind of interact with the neighbors across the road like the commercial building with the coffee shop and all [1:57:12] that think it could help make a more inviting transaction across the road and bring Neighbors in and make it feel like [1:57:19] Hey we're welcome here too this isn't just a playground or a space to gather for the residents I think that would be [1:57:26] something to consider from a design perspective that if we were to pick and choose that's something I would be [1:57:33] interested to see if it could pencil out uh the the share driveway is a concern [1:57:40] especially knowing how many residents are going to be in here compared to normal so 374 that's a lot of people in [1:57:49] 89 units and oh this shows it better so it looks like [1:57:54] you have some parking spots the other thing just showed gray boxes looks like you have parking spots along that shared [1:58:01] Drive um thinking if that neighboring site to the north redevelops and that [1:58:07] shared Drive becomes more pronounced I I would almost see a sidewalk along that [1:58:12] Northern perimeter to allow people not necessarily to walk around the building [1:58:17] but more safely Traverse what could be north of there you know and thinking of [1:58:23] the small area plan if there's a lot of pressure toward maintaining more commercial or office or some sort of [1:58:30] retail component it'd be good to have this site ready to accommodate that [1:58:35] instead of just relying on it not changing uh the shared [1:58:41] driveway or the shared garage entrance to just one garage entrance is a huge [1:58:46] Improvement I'd keep it that way um like you've removed all curb cuts from this [1:58:52] project basically pushed it to where it used to be so that's that's key when it comes to the safety of the site and [1:58:59] moving around it um I mentioned the tow houses and the [1:59:05] street engagement and so as I think about any project even if [1:59:12] I'm not like super in favor of the use or that particular site working for it [1:59:17] the biggest thing that the neighbors will end up experien long term is that public realm around the site so you know [1:59:26] the sidewalk along the east side make it wider than you think have more [1:59:31] Landscaping than you think again enhance those townhouse walk UPS so it's really [1:59:38] nice and then Elevate that corner to be you know something that is more [1:59:45] pronounced in like an open space and that was kind of my suggestion of maybe pulling that building away and bringing [1:59:52] more of the Trees and Landscaping and buffer into that make it just a little [1:59:58] more friendly all all around kind of that that north south and east [2:00:05] west I think for PUD versus PRD I'm this is one of those few I I kind of side [2:00:10] with commissioner boury and I'm not totally sure i' I'd probably air on the side of keeping it PRD from the from the [2:00:18] standpoint like we want to keep our zoning to match the comprehensive plan and that's more in line with it this the [2:00:25] the advantage of PUD is if there is also like affordable aspects of the project [2:00:31] or the whole Project's not an affordable one where we want to kind of lock in that commitment longer than is required [2:00:38] but if you're saying you're required for 30 years typically we lock it in 20 or [2:00:43] 30 years so that seems um not as necessary and keeps the zoning more straightforward and in line [2:00:50] with the comprehensive plan uh I guess the only other thing i' would [2:00:59] have for feedback is just with the small area plan I you know this is one of [2:01:06] those we're just in a unfortunate timeline right here for things so while [2:01:13] I think if I live nearby there and then this came up but I had other ideas for what this I could be and I I bet a lot [2:01:20] of people could think of a lot of great ideas um that could maybe be better for [2:01:25] the neighborhood than this this is also a great component to what the small area [2:01:30] plan could house and is kind of in sync with some of the other housing types so [2:01:36] I'm sympathetic to both sides really and definitely feel the tension on this [2:01:41] there is a huge Balancing Act um and what we see if if it does happen I mean [2:01:48] it it is a bonus to the city so so people can understand typically like [2:01:53] with a development if this was all market rate housing the developer would be required by our code to provide 10% [2:02:01] affordable units that are 60% Ami or 20% units that are 50% Ami so [2:02:11] to have a site that has yeah or or you can pay into the fund right uh but we [2:02:18] never seen any of those or even affordable projects this abundance of the 30% Ami and I think it's a reminder [2:02:25] of if you were to build a market rate version of this rate here and say someone gets the keys to this lot and [2:02:32] it's still guided the same and they did that there is no way you could build something that any of these people could [2:02:40] afford you know and that's evidenced by the amount of funding you've received [2:02:46] which is a wild amount I mean you're it's almost you know almost 30 million of the 38 [2:02:53] so we have this incredible opportunity too as a community to house a lot of people that I mean we want a more [2:03:01] diverse Community that's what most of the comprehensive plan feedback is that's what we're guided toward and this [2:03:07] kind of hits that is it the ideal use of the site it's Up For Debate so I'm [2:03:12] feeling the tension there on the high level but regarding your plan it's a market improvement from the [2:03:19] first go around and I'd encourage to seek a lot of the community feedback [2:03:24] between now and the formal proposal and will really look toward what the city [2:03:31] council has to say they might they've kind of directed us in this [2:03:36] area without much of our input so who knows you know a moratorium or something [2:03:42] could happen I don't know the a lot hinges on the sewer situation and that [2:03:47] could be so straightforward that it's a no that none of this happens either so there's a lot up in the air but really [2:03:55] appreciate your time and your proposal and the community for coming out this [2:04:00] late this long on a snowy night says a lot thank you thank you so [2:04:07] much for your time your questions and your feedback thank you we really appreciate it thank [2:04:13] you all right so the next item on our agenda is related to this as we've [2:04:22] prefaced it it is uh the small area plan working group Green pint for this [2:04:28] area so Carrie I think you'll introduce it I don't know if you have a presentation or if you'll just kind of [2:04:34] go through the steps yeah I'll just go through from here so this is the action [2:04:39] that we ask the Planning Commission to take approve this green print where we can now publicize that we're advertising [2:04:46] to solicit uh members of the the small area plan working group [2:04:52] um the objective here as we've been talking about is to complete a small area plan um ideally by the end of the [2:04:59] year but as we know how these things go it'll probably trickle into 20 uh [2:05:05] 25 um so if approved this evening we would um post this on the website [2:05:12] tomorrow um February 15 the applications to apply for the working group would be [2:05:18] due March 8th and and the date for working group member selections which the selections [2:05:25] are made by the the Planning Commission would be at your March 27th [2:05:31] meeting the goal here is to have the first working group meeting uh with [2:05:38] staff consultants and Planning Commission and and the the working group the week of April [2:05:45] 22nd is the goal we are currently uh there's an RFP for planning Consulting [2:05:52] assistance that RFP um closes on February 23rd that's a [2:05:58] week from Friday again the decision of selecting the consultant is a Planning Commission decision as well so the [2:06:06] action this evening is for you to approve the the green print uh to [2:06:12] solicit working group members just want to say one thing to the you know the [2:06:17] neighbors who are here and maybe tuning in I mean this just from what you Des Des cribed compared to typical I mean [2:06:23] this is like purely in response to you caring and sharing your feedback and getting involved typically if we're [2:06:30] going through a small area plan process and like what we proposed initially was to study all the areas and then even the [2:06:38] time frame to kind of assemble the group and have an RFP out there for [2:06:46] consultants and then get everyone together that that's usually sever [2:06:51] months not this short of a time frame so just want to thank you guys for you know [2:06:57] really showing your feedback and helping provide this sense of urgency otherwise [2:07:03] you wouldn't see you know RFP closing a week from now when we're approving let's [2:07:09] get going on this so that's a good thing in the mix and whatever else we can do [2:07:14] to expedite that time frame I'm certain that the the the [2:07:20] co-chairs will do that and I guess maybe one piece of feedback is we have three [2:07:26] planning Commissioners that will serve of the nine member small area plan [2:07:32] working group already and commissioner day commissioner Miranda and then [2:07:40] whoer fell oh wow we're all here um maybe I don't know if you guys had anything to say just about what you're [2:07:47] looking forward to on that or specific feedback to getting this approved D but [2:07:52] I just offer you a chance to share any experience yeah well I'd just like to read the purpose from the document just [2:07:59] so we're all on the same page and then a little description of it so it is intended that the small area plan would [2:08:05] be adopted as an amendment to the city's comprehensive plan and a guide for future Redevelopment and infrastructure [2:08:11] decision- making the small area plan May provide guidance on topics such as land use Transportation housing Economic [2:08:17] Development sustainability Parks natural resources work group members are asked to take a leadership role and to serve [2:08:23] as Champions to this for the small area planet and inform the final document so the part about being adopted as part of [2:08:30] the comprehensive plan is that uh the comprehensive plan is all over [2:08:39] it oh oh I'm done I'm done reading I'm just talking I'm talking about it now oh [2:08:45] okay oh I thought it was being shown it will be published tomorrow yeah this will be published tomorrow sure but but [2:08:51] the idea is that the comprehensive plan is um approved by the Met Council every [2:08:56] city has to have a comprehensive plan so it's not something that is unique to a Dina so this document would become part [2:09:03] of that and become part of the city's vision for the area so thank [2:09:11] you anything either of you'd like to share is the co-chair no just I mean I [2:09:18] don't if if people aren't familiar with small area plans right they are very instrumental in shaping the discussions [2:09:24] for Planning Commission uh the you know Southdale design guidelines the areas [2:09:30] around you know 44th in France K Hill was going to be one I [2:09:35] lament that fact that that hasn't gone for and gone anywhere yet but in any case right it's a guiding document to [2:09:41] help shape our discussion and say what are we looking for in the small area plan and then we can refer back to it [2:09:46] because we've had the discussion with the community and say this is what we're looking for from developers right it gives a Direction [2:09:51] rather than leaving it some so ambiguous so um it's important right our [2:09:57] comprehensive plan is important this says an amendment is very important so if you want to be a member of this um [2:10:04] working group right taking make sure you consider that and it's a Time requirement [2:10:11] it's um definitely something that needs we need to put a lot of thought into right and you should be passionate about [2:10:17] it uh because it it does impact many people down the road so thanks then if [2:10:23] it you know like other working groups typically the aim for selection is to [2:10:29] gather a diverse mix of people and perspectives and we've gotten a lot of feedback from residents about who ought [2:10:36] to be involved people in the area people outside of the area business owners [2:10:42] Property Owners um people with a diverse background of stakeholders in this area [2:10:49] and around Edina so I don't know if there's any more to [2:10:54] tee up for that except we just make a motion to approve [2:11:00] the adoption well not the adoption but the green print essentially for it [2:11:07] so I guess if there is a motion to approve the working group Green print for the Lincoln and London near small [2:11:13] area plan now would be the time a motion to approve the working group Green print for Lincoln and [2:11:19] Londonberry small area plan second all those in favor say I I [2:11:27] opposed so moved thank you everyone and uh that [2:11:32] concludes our items on that portion of the agenda tonight and now we move to chair and member [2:11:40] comments looking around if anyone has any yeah commissioner felt I noticed on the website that [2:11:46] there's going to be a town talk on affordable housing February 29th I'm not too sure what that means that's [2:11:53] just online but it's coming up so I'm going [2:11:58] to check it out and where did you see [2:12:04] that because there there's a city report that was sent out that just went into further [2:12:09] detail about that a little bit yeah I was just looking at Town talks in city of v and then next one coming up is on [2:12:16] affordable housing it should be on Better Together just to chime in there thank [2:12:24] you Mr morand any comments any comments just quick one um I was looking at [2:12:30] Better Together Dina the other day and I don't know if you've looked at it lately but there is a development map aspect to [2:12:37] do it now so that residents can pull up a map and look and see where ongoing developments are I actually hadn't [2:12:43] wasn't aware that we had done that yet so it was a pleasant surprise and um [2:12:48] definitely I think a step in the right direction so kudos to the City and the city staff for getting that done I think it's very helpful for residents to see a [2:12:55] map and be able to click on where developments are taking place and what what stage of development they're in so [2:13:00] thank you for that all right just one quick comment uh [2:13:06] so what we do in the city is you know obligated to us by law as as well as by [2:13:11] state law and I'm sure people have seen there's like the there's that end to [2:13:18] parking minimums proposal for the state so things like that if they do change and you know one [2:13:24] thing that's on our working plan is to get ready to accommodate the new cannabis regulations and how it relates [2:13:31] to land use um but there are bigger things outside of Edina that can affect [2:13:36] Edina so if you're aware of something you know share it with us um send it to [2:13:41] the city it's good to be aware of those items because if they are coming we have [2:13:47] to be ready for them uh but that's about all I [2:13:54] had all right on to the next item we have staff [2:14:00] comments yeah no action items from city council to report they did consider the [2:14:05] sketch plan you recall that we did at our last meeting on the Macy site um so [2:14:11] we'll anticipate an application potentially from them in the next few months that's it for [2:14:18] me all right one remaining item adjournment anyone ready [2:14:24] motion to adjourn all those in favor oh sorry second all those in favor so moved [2:14:30] meetings adjourn thank [2:14:50] you [2:15:19] e [2:15:49] e [2:16:19] e e