[0:00] and uh it's an icy day out there I'm glad you're all safe and sound um we [0:05] will do a little early business before we start the meeting um today is the [0:11] February 15th meeting of the din Housing and Redevelopment [0:16] Authority no this is oh don't we we say this first [0:24] or okay thank you um and there are a few things I'd like to cover before we start [0:30] the meeting today Community comment will be the only opportunity during the meeting to uh for the members of public [0:36] to participate you're only allowed to speak for up to three minutes about anything that is not on today's agenda [0:42] or subject of a future public hearing if you would like to call in for Community comment call 312 535 [0:52] 8110 and enter access code 2634 32 4859 [0:59] and enter password 5454 so you might want to get your pencil because this comes up pretty [1:04] quickly in the agenda and then you press star three to participate so with that [1:11] um we'll be hearing uh we we'll get the meeting started and again I I apologize [1:17] for being late this morning so are we all set okay I will call the meeting to [1:23] order and um this is a February 15th meeting of [1:29] the Dina H and U Miss Olen will you please call the role commissioner rer [1:36] here commissioner Pierce here commissioner U here Vice chair Jackson [1:41] here okay and with that we'll rise for the Pledge of [1:47] Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic [1:53] for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and jce for [2:02] all okay so now we are on to approval of the meeting agenda does anybody have any [2:08] changes um from either the coun or from the commission or the staff that wants to change the agenda okay seeing none do [2:15] I have a motion to approve the agenda so move a second all right I with um [2:21] commissioner Pierce moving and commissioner agu seconding um any discussion all in favor signify by [2:27] saying I I I okay and it passes all right now we're on to community comment so people who [2:34] are here to um in the chambers to address the commission please come forward and state your name and address [2:42] please uh Andy Brown 5512 Park Place in ad um I'd like a message delivered to uh [2:51] mayor havland and Caroline I hope you can do that for me um I'm a 38-year resident and this board [2:59] and and this Council has lost my trust my friendship and my [3:05] vote and mayor Neil or excuse me manager Neil after what I saw from that foyer [3:11] requests I am not a disinformation campaign you're on the record on audio [3:17] talking about reparations and hiring a consultant regarding that and [3:22] um I don't appreciate you or your service so um the way you've treated [3:31] people in this community um I used to caddy for Fred Richards as [3:37] a kid he would not have kept you on [3:43] so good [3:49] daybody else good morning good morning uh my name is Mora Cal I live at 6421 [3:55] Indian Hills Road in Adina um I am just coming last minute I have nothing [4:02] prepared I just scribbled some notes real quick um but I did want to just mention my um advocacy for the [4:11] um approval or discussion of letting people with disabilities in more of a [4:18] percentage for the housing that's being discussed um to be frank I'm not got my [4:24] ear on the ground with all things um I have uh three children one with special [4:30] I'm going to interrupt you for a minute I think that's on the agenda today so the rules are kind of that we don't [4:35] allow Community comment for things that are on today's agenda ah okay I misunderstood yeah so thank you for [4:42] coming and and you know we certainly would love to hear from you from email or if there's a public hearing at this [4:47] at some point to have you come forward but um yeah thank you for parti I just want to acknowledge my support yeah okay [4:53] good luck with you bu on line I do have some callers on [5:02] the line callers as a reminder if you'd like to speak under Community com comment please press the star and then [5:09] three keys on your telephone keypad that's the asteris symbol then the number three that will signal your [5:14] desire to speak I still don't see anyone signaling so I'm assuming they're just here to [5:20] listen okay good thank you so much so we'll move on um next on our agenda is um the consent agenda now remember [5:28] Risser do I remember that you wanted to take an item off consent yes I would like item C taken off of consent okay so [5:37] um do I have a motion for the consent agenda without item c on it so [5:44] move second okay so commissioner agu moves and commissioner Pier seconds um [5:50] any further discussion okay all in favor say I I I okay thank you so to um uh Mo [5:57] agenda item sixc member rer or commissioner Risser um if we could call [6:03] up diagram one from the information packet that went out that shows the um [6:09] outline for the France Redevelopment redesign and the overall study area I [6:15] think that would be extremely helpful um I I really feel [6:23] that in many respects this proposal reminds me of the Grand View Bridge [6:29] across the railroad tracks oh okay thank you I'm used to talking with [6:36] and without images I just roll until it gets up there but thank [6:53] you there we we just zipped past it there we go okay yeah all right and um I [7:01] am never going to forget standing on the upper deck of the parking ramp next to [7:06] Jerry's that the city owns and hearing that the scope of the project for that [7:11] pedestrian bridge begins and ends with the upper deck of the parking ramp and I [7:17] think that was a real disservice to the community and it does mean that there is no Ada access coming from the East and [7:24] as I look at this proposal um we do have pedestrian and bite [7:30] infrastructure in place um and particularly we do have the [7:36] 9M Creek Trail and um when I asked about this at the last council meeting you [7:42] know how somebody on a bike going from the trail was going to get to the underground passageway I was told they [7:47] were going to have to cut across Gallagher which is a really questionable maneuver and to recommend that for a kid [7:54] on a bike um I think is really a safety conc concern U you've got France Avenue [8:01] You' got cars um and you've also got a bus route here and I think we want to [8:07] avoid what happened with the pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks we need [8:13] to have a comprehensive kind of vision that includes existing bike and pedestrian [8:21] infrastructure that presents a narrative that is more than just here we have two [8:26] properties that are being developed wouldn't it be neat to them um there needs to be more dedication to how [8:36] ordinary people people who might not necessarily be going to these private [8:41] sites how they could make use of a underground passageway or maybe it's [8:49] going to be a bridge so that was a very um when I saw the red outline and the [8:54] black outline and realized that um the limit of the redesign you know there [9:00] won't even be any discussion about that uh I thought that was a problem and I also want to underscore again um so much [9:07] of what we do is driven by the Southdale design guidelines which require a grid um like approach to Parcels of land [9:16] requiring uh New Roads be put in and those roads if you look at what is [9:22] recommended for the Macy's site there's supposed to be a road added that runs [9:27] perpendicular to France Avenue plac and I know if there is that passageway it wouldn't be like a driveway off of [9:35] France but my point is we have these design guidelines that are recommending [9:41] that we Pierce and add more conflict points in the middle of blocks and I [9:48] really think we need to take a look at that saltdale design guideline um they are they are not working in a way that [9:55] reflects best practices for pedestrian bike safety but more immediately I think [10:00] this diagram puts in um boundaries that will [10:06] make it very difficult to create some kind of connection that would serve the [10:11] broader public and and I would ask that maybe this goes back to the drawing board and we don't vote on it today [10:19] thank you um okay so I I think a little point [10:26] of clarification I think the item on the agenda is actually to go back to the drawing board Julie member is her um so [10:34] so what we're doing is we're approving Consultants to study um given the [10:40] feedback that we we had at our city council meeting or was it here was it city council city council and H there's [10:47] been updates so yeah this is a proposal to look a little deeper talked about some of the questions U member rer has [10:54] it's investing $80,000 in a very limited scope St stud [11:00] and I have seen how you know you start you do one study it leads to another and and I think we're at the very beginning [11:06] this needs to be broader it should not be this focused and I'll just make one reference on the better togethers site [11:12] where we've posted these ideas last fall there is a 2007 study that identified [11:18] this location as a Crossing it was a big Southdale area urban planning study that identified Crossings so we're using that [11:24] as a as a starting point for this idea and then it's also called out in the bike head master plan make improvements [11:29] up and down France to try to get people across because Crossing six eight Lanes is just not a nice experience even at [11:36] Gallagher there where the Three Rivers Park District made some improvements recently but still not a nice Crossing [11:42] there where you got across all those lanes and and yet the existing um traffic light at Gallagher in France one [11:49] could argue offers a safer Passage Point than recommending or just assuming kids [11:56] will scoot across Gallagher right in the middle of the road I I really do think the scope needs to [12:03] be changed so that it addresses that bike trail I think it needs to be and if you [12:10] think about what we're putting in you know the hopen county library you've got Fred Richards it would be wonderful if [12:17] you could have kids be able to bike safely back and forth and I feel like [12:22] this just really is putting in place something that will not address those [12:28] concerns thank you um so the only question I have [12:33] uh commissioner Risser what would you be recommending we do so I my understanding of this was that this is recommending [12:41] that we go back to the drawing board and we look at look deeper at options and [12:47] which makes sense to me I I would think we would all agree on that piece and then your point about you think the [12:52] scope is too narrow what would you be recommending be different at minimum extend that rectangle down so that it [13:01] encompasses the bike trail in that intersection yeah we can include sorry [13:06] we can include that into this review that's yeah so if we do that then I I we [13:12] would update this and just redraw the red line so that it's clear what's in scope right yeah we'd asked for approval [13:19] today but we'll make that change and include it in the scope of the review and have that as a as a memo back to the [13:26] HRA and Council when the as this progresses through those steps perfect thank you and and I do want some [13:32] understanding that putting in and really encouraging additional roads that [13:38] intersect into France right in the middle of blocks is we need to take a look at that we really do we need to and [13:47] and that happened with the US Bank building we added another driveway off [13:52] of France and our whole design methodology will continue to add more [13:59] and more conflict points along France which ultimately does not help for pedestrian and bike safety well [14:05] appreciate those comments I guess the design guidelines that's a whole different topic and for Carrie probably [14:11] to to address through the planning department so member verer or [14:17] commissioner rer would you like to move this we can we can ask with that change [14:23] there was one email that we got from a resident regarding getting um cost estimates for this that came in and I [14:30] don't know if that was ever um addressed her [14:35] concern was the procurement guidelines from the state of Minnesota no [14:40] documentation that multiple bids were solicited for this study and that came in yesterday so I don't know if staff [14:48] would like to comment on that and um it looks like it just went to [14:54] council uh we're comfortable with this procurement method this is what we do with our Consultants we have Serv [14:59] service contracts where we can direct select people that have the experience um maybe they've studied this area [15:04] already in the past and that's been our practice okay and this resident's concerned was that there was no [15:09] documentation that multiple bids were solicited for the study and I don't know [15:15] about that aspect of her concern and if [15:20] somebody on staff could comment about that there wasn't we don't do that with [15:25] every service contract so we have Master service agreements in place where we can direct select consultants and we try to [15:31] spread it around like a consultant pool and this is one of those opportunities where we've done that and selected [15:36] somebody that has experience in the district and in this type of work okay she does site cite a Minnesota statute [15:43] um contracts exceeding 25,000 um but not [15:51] 175,000 I and again I'm just reading this because it came in and I am not informed about this at all but I thought [15:58] it was a concern that's worth addressing director Neil yeah I I think that uh the [16:05] this is a professional service so that it's not subject to that same section of [16:10] of um procurement law and this is really a standard practice that we use with our [16:16] Consulting uh groups in uh various projects around the city you okay thank you all right we good okay so um who [16:24] would like to make the motion to approve this I I move to approve item C with the [16:32] extension of the red area um to include uh the intersection of Gallagher as well [16:39] as more of the um pedestrian and bike way at that intersection okay thank you [16:46] do I have a second second okay all in favor signify by saying I I I okay it's [16:53] done thank you so we are on to reports and recommendations [16:59] and um this is first we've got the um Amendment to redevelop the 4620 West [17:05] 77th Street and this is with manager hackinson good [17:25] morning uh so yes this is to amend the redev agreement with um 462 77th Street [17:34] West um that is now known as the finch so we want to amend the agreement [17:41] to prioritize people with intellectual or developmental disabilities for the affordable [17:48] units the reason for this are multifold one is this does um making this change [17:54] does adhere to the comprehensive plan in there was that we should um Foster [18:02] diversity by addressing disparities and at the time the comp plan was written we had zero um units of housing focused on [18:10] people with disabilities and it was also highlighted [18:16] in the housing strategy task force that we needed to have some um focus or [18:22] there's desire to have some focus on serving folks with disabilities so [18:29] how we arrived at this point is um aside from the plans is in [18:35] 2021 um director Teague and I met with an advocacy group of I I call them [18:41] affectionately the Adam moms and they they met with us because they were [18:46] really interested and concerned about having housing for their uh becoming [18:51] adult children um where they could live in community and get [18:57] Services um provided that was away from Mom and Dad so they could you know like [19:02] every young adult want some Independence um their idea that after [19:09] that they formed a relationship with abelite and they came before the city council at sketch plan to have um [19:16] housing at 54th in France it was um not supported you know generally and so the [19:23] developer pulled off and did not submit a site plan application and backed away [19:30] and at that meeting it was suggested that we work hard to find another site [19:36] for um this population of people uh so we approached Solem with at [19:42] the Finch site and they were more than enthusiastic to work with these folks [19:47] and in the meantime other advocacy groups came forward and were also meeting with Solem and so um the idea is [19:54] to have a prioritization of the um we already have 8 affordable units set [20:00] aside at that site prioritize people with intellectual um and developmental [20:05] disabilities for those units um one one of the [20:10] beneficial um benefits of this is when you have um critical mass services are [20:18] more available um Frasier and other organizations can come in and do [20:24] Services because it's more economically feasible if there's more than a person here and a person there and have it and [20:29] then also it creates community so with permission I was sent this photo this is the original group of [20:36] Advocates and their children um and so we would like to allow that Amendment [20:41] technically they could do this through their tenant selection plan without going through this change but staff [20:48] changes Council changes people change and we don't want it to be in question [20:53] 10 years from now on this prioritization and have that deemed with aspect so we [20:59] wanted to really codify it and make that change [21:05] questions so any questions from the commission or commissioner R um is there [21:12] an effort to reach out to other um apartment complexes to see if there's [21:18] interest in doing this you know at other facilities uh commissioner Risser yes [21:26] when new developers come online we also mention this concept um [21:33] to them and they have they are engaging in conversations as well okay so good [21:38] all right thank you but this one is being constructed it's being built it [21:44] does not have all their tenant selection practices in place so the timing was perfect for this um this location and um [21:52] The Advocates really liked this location um and so it seemed like it was [21:58] a good fit uh commissioner Pierce um thank you um [22:04] Madam chair um so I like I think I'm missing [22:09] something here I I don't I'm not sure what we're really asking [22:15] for um so of course I support what um you're describing here but I don't [22:23] understand uh when you said well they could do this without um this approving this agreement [22:31] change and so on like what are the what's the implication if we don't [22:36] approve it or what benefit are we getting by having this be an approved [22:42] agreement I'm just I'm just lost on that all right I probably did confuse you and I apologize for that so the [22:49] prioritization for the first when a unit becomes available for the first 30 days the [22:55] prioritization is for a person with um a intellectual developmental disability so [23:00] if another person comes in that income qualifies for that unit during that time [23:06] period the priority will be you have two tenants priority will be for the person [23:12] with a disability okay okay and so they could Leap Frog in any sense over someone without a [23:19] disability after 30 days if the unit is vacant it will go to anyone who's income [23:25] qualified so there is there is a Time lap where the priority if two people [23:30] come in at once for a vacant unit three people four people whatever come in at once for one vacant unit the priority is [23:37] going to be for the person um with an intellectual or developmental disability and then it opens up to the general [23:45] population that's income qualified got it thank you commissioner agnu thank you [23:51] do you have statistics or data around our I think General metropolitan area on [23:57] the unmet need and I know I'm asking you this without any prepping of um people [24:03] with these disabilities and their unmet need across housing so do we have information [24:09] on the underserved community in this space Commissioners I don't have a exact [24:16] number I do know that um people are um [24:21] children are living 30 40 miles away in housing and that was the closest they [24:28] could find and so they have to travel far um to visit their children or if there's a need that arises I know that [24:34] there's a waiting list that's long at those places um I know that there's a [24:40] strong feeling that these will fill up really quickly and not have a problem being full but I can't give you an exact [24:48] number so I have kind of a follow-up member uh question to commissioner Pierce's question when I was looking [24:53] through this if the um tency goes to a non-quality qualified person so income [25:00] qualified but not special needs and then it comes up again the priority comes back right is that is that did I read [25:07] the agreement correctly that is correct okay so it always perpetually has priority not just the first time it's [25:14] left that is correct okay um and why we wanted to put this in paper and change [25:19] it is if this came into question and a there was a vacancy and someone walked [25:24] in you know 5 minutes 10 minutes half an hour day before someone else to apply for that unit and the first person that [25:31] walked in did not have a dis was not special needs and then following before [25:36] our lease was signed someone walked in that did have a disability and they Leap Frog over the first person that could [25:42] raise if you're not here I'm not here no you know the current Staffing is not here that could cause questions they [25:49] could complain it raises an issue and like wait how is this allowed and so we [25:54] wanted to make sure that it was documented so in the future if there is questions about this we can point back [26:01] to the agreement good thank you and then just as you were talking I was thinking how many units were we talking about on [26:08] 54th Street do you remember off the top of your head seems like this is bigger [26:13] um commissioner I don't I think that project and maybe um director Teague has [26:20] a better recollection I believe it was 60 units total in about a third [26:28] um we're going to be set aside so this would be eight units roughly more okay [26:33] but it's it's fairly comparable with the number of units good thank you so I I'm thrilled I want to thank you for [26:40] continuing to work on this I know there's members of our community who are just really worried about their adult [26:46] children um having a level of Independence but also some support and [26:51] uh it's just this is great news so thank you so much and thanks for making it um a part of the the structure of the the [26:58] deal of this um development so thanks so much and thanks for soem for working on that a lot of thanks does go to them and [27:05] I would like to um there is history with the organization of um with special ed [27:11] education so it really hit uh soft spot for them and a mission priority for them [27:18] to want to work with it so it wasn't there was no arm twisting or wrangling it was like yeah let's do this so yeah [27:26] this is fantastic news so with that do I have a motion to approve the First Amendment to Redevelopment agreement for [27:33] 4620 West 77th Street and authorized execution thereof so moved second and [27:40] moved by commissioner Pierce second by commissioner agnu I'll any further discussion all in favor signified by [27:46] saying I I I I okay and it's passed thank you so now we're going to move on [27:51] to a discussion about affordable housing and um um I don't know Comm uh member [27:59] hackinson if you want to um sit there with your computer or um be but um as [28:06] we've been talking about uh affordable housing a lot of questions have come up and we've had um a discussion about [28:14] different types of financing and I asked staff if we couldn't have a little bit [28:20] more of a discussion here in public among um the commission about what it means to be affordable housing so I want [28:27] to keep keep an eye on the time so that we're we stay on time on on track here um [28:34] but I wanted to start with a definition of affordable housing one of the [28:39] fiercest rebukes I've gotten from the plan I've heard from the Planning Commission is that the city council when [28:46] they're talking affordable housing what do they mean and I think it's really important it's a complex term and that [28:52] it covers a lot of different things and I thought it might be helpful and I I believe I sent you all last night I [28:58] apologize for the delay um but uh uh some of the definitions of affordable [29:04] housing in the comprehensive plan so I thought we might just kind of go down the line and talk a little bit about [29:10] when we talking affordable housing what does that mean and do you think we need [29:15] to have a more simplified statement for the public um to when we're talking [29:21] affordable housing that they can uh have a a United agreement about what we mean [29:27] so um I'm just going to call on people so commissioner agnu I'm going to call on [29:33] you first so tell me a little bit about when you hear aordable housing um you know what what does that bring to [29:41] mind when I think about it it's it's really a looking at the overall housing [29:48] makeup that we have within a community and it's asking you know are there needs [29:56] not necessarily being met by what is there today um and because Edina moms [30:02] was brought up right I think back to like you know Edina moms groups and you see things of like teachers posting of [30:08] like oh I'm like I know one of or a mom posting there's a teacher at the school who wants a house and can't find one is [30:15] looking at this price point um and I just think about all of the people who are already members of our community [30:21] whether teachers or service workers or nurses right we have an amazing medical [30:26] um industry here um can they afford to live in can they [30:32] afford to live uh close to where they're already working and engaged um and and [30:39] as I was you know thinking about affordable housing as well I also talked [30:44] to a lot of people who are frustrated that their kids grew up in Indina and they can't afford to live in [30:51] e now they want to be close to their grandchildren um and so I think for me it's it's really about understand [30:58] understanding why is that um what what can we do to not make it as [31:06] exclusive for those people um so uh commissioner Pierce I [31:14] I'm going to add on to your question because you're always so good about um asking what's the messaging behind that [31:21] so I'd love to hear um so you might think about that we can come back to the messaging part but tell me when when you [31:26] hear affordable housing what does that Encompass and and how do you think we need to be talking about [31:32] that in the community um so I I agree with everything that [31:38] commissioner agu said um I just have a a simple [31:43] tagline um I think when we talk about today we frame it as um affordable [31:50] housing um but I think of it is having sustained housing affordability now and into the future [31:57] and so what that speaks to to me is that it's more more than just thinking about in [32:05] today's market um ensuring that we have we meet income levels uh but it also means we [32:15] ensure that the marketplace for housing in Idina uh we can sustain um housing [32:22] affordability and that adds not just for particular Amis but in general um and so [32:30] I did an article in the suncurrent that talked about our median home value today [32:37] being 660,000 and in s years it's projected to be a million dollar um just [32:44] and we know Market fluctuates right um but if Edina gets to a point where the [32:51] medium home value is a million dollar then that definitely says that we have [32:57] less hous housing affordability in the broader sense um and so I think we need to focus on multiple aspects not just [33:06] the uh affordability that's reflected by [33:11] uh various Amis so that that tagline sustained housing affordability today [33:18] and uh into the future terrific thank you so commissioner Risser tell me what your thoughts are about affordable [33:25] housing um sustainability is a key key point and um one of the things that was [33:31] sort of drilled into my dad and um us is that you're you're never going to really [33:36] build equity if you're renting and um I really think we need to have um [33:42] affordable housing that allows people to build equity we do have some of that but the vast majority of units that are [33:48] going up are are rentals so I think that's a problem um I also think there needs to be diversity of land use around [33:55] where affordable housing exists and it is very sobering to look at the [34:01] um and I don't know if we could get the zoning map up on the screen but um there [34:08] is future land use designations that um for example office residential U mixed [34:14] use where we have proceeded to build purely residential complexes and so [34:20] gutting out the um restaurants the employers the landscape businesses where [34:27] people people are hired um to you know do all kinds of things from design to putting in plants and all of that um [34:35] really is diminishing and when you look at our um neighborhood nodes um they are [34:41] almost being wiped out and that is something I think to be very much concerned about because I think [34:47] affordable housing you need to have a place nearby where you know you could go [34:52] have some pizza or have something but you know there's no guarantee that that um those places will continue to exist [34:59] because we have set the precedent for doing purely residential on um sites [35:05] that are larger than areas where we have plan commercial and last year we spent a [35:10] huge amount of time um looking at an ordinance that would have made it possible to completely put residential [35:17] up in commercial areas that did not pass but that ordinance was never changed so [35:24] it it has happened three times in the node near my house so I I think you know when we talk about affordable housing it [35:31] can't just be looking at something in a vacuum it needs to be bigger there needs to be Community there needs to be um [35:38] alternatives to using a car uh but there and so it's it's a lot to look at and I [35:46] think um what's really alarming is you know you could go and you could look at the map of Ein and if you instead of [35:53] keeping all the puds that are purely residential or you you went and you [35:58] coded it so that it accurately reflected how it was being used I think um you'd [36:04] really be shocked but we really are are not building a community that has a lot [36:09] of sustainability baked into it in fact we're going in the opposite direction so um affordable housing to me means [36:16] vibrant vibrant areas it it also means that um you know you've got sidewalks [36:22] you've got a healthy tree canopy you're not granting massive setback variances that Mak it really hard to plant Oaks [36:30] that will grow and offer shade and all of that um so it it's a vision and it [36:36] and I think a lot of times we just look very detailed at a plan um but I I think [36:42] when we talk about affordable housing we need to talk about purely residential construction that is going up and really [36:49] eliminating uh diversity of land use thank you so wow this is super helpful [36:56] for me um what I'm hearing is we we're in the middle of a housing crisis we have a shortage of housing the most [37:03] efficient way to build housing is to build apartments in our commercial areas [37:08] but that's not meeting the overall picture of what is our community and what is the desire and what I love the [37:15] idea of a comprehensive view at our housing stock in Idina and looking at affordability as a long-term issue of [37:24] how do we um continue to make this um a community where people with different [37:29] jobs including a lot of people who live here able to live here and so um I think [37:36] this is a this is a wonderful first start and we're g to kind of I think this is kind of a good way to stick to the time too to just leave it at that [37:43] that our next conversation maybe what we can talk about is um we did the Max [37:49] field study about what is here and um if we want to add more housing in our [37:58] community which um I think there's a desire to do that um are can we look at [38:05] the overall housing stock and placement of Housing and have a conversation about [38:11] H how do we develop a variety of new housing given that we're fully developed [38:16] and I think it's a paradox right we need more housing there's no more room the [38:21] most efficient thing is to build up in apartments but that's not satisfying what the community expectations are or [38:27] that overall life cycle housing um and you know income variety and and needs [38:34] variety so I don't know how we have that conversation but with my fellow [38:39] Commissioners is that something that you'd like to pursue further yes member commissioner Pierce uh thanks Madam [38:45] chair I um so the only thing I would would add I think it's we certainly all [38:51] have opinions of it um but I think what we are uh seeing in various [38:58] conversations that we're having and an email uh correspondences that we do need to have [39:03] a broader conversation to understand what the broader Community wants to see in this space um and so I would [39:12] definitely be a huge um advocate for having some kind of uh whether it's a a [39:20] town hall or some broader conversation around it um [39:25] because every City it's probably not true I don't believe in absolutes but I say almost [39:32] every city in the nation is dealing with this um and I think in order for us to [39:38] really make a dent in it um I mean these are hard conversations hard decisions to make it has to be funded um I agree with [39:47] member uh commissioner Risser um it's going to impact zoning there's going to [39:55] be lots of challenges and I just think if if we're going to really make a dent in it I think we have a have to have a [40:01] broader convers conversation um and um we need more direction from the [40:08] community so having that broader conversation I would definitely support doing that terrific I I love that idea [40:14] thank you for bringing that up so I'm just going to throw this out to staff that maybe our next conversation we talk [40:20] about the overall housing stock and we can use the Max field study I think that's still current enough and then [40:27] what are some of what's a variety of ways in which we can address uh creating [40:32] new housing in a fully built City and at all income levels I think um so we've [40:37] got high-end and we've got Apartments a lot of which are actually very high-end but but there's that whole middle in [40:44] between and so what are the tools that are available we have a brief discussion about that and then open it up to a a [40:50] public discussion um whether it's a public hearing or a town hall um does that sound like a plan yeah commissioner [40:57] okay is that uh Direction enough uh director Neil okay thank you so that's [41:03] thank you all um I think this is good and it's good to have it on tape and and in the public air I think I I have a [41:11] sense that in the community there's fairly good alignment um on where we want to go but there are going to be [41:17] some hot points and and it's good to find out where those are so thank you and we will move on then if I can find [41:24] my agenda here um to um end of the 2023 item number eight [41:32] and this is Mr neindorf manager nindorf um the 2023 year in review what did we [41:39] do last year in Economic Development [42:02] here we go okay great awesome yes good morning uh Bill nondorf the city's [42:08] economic development manager well as you know each year uh at the beginning of the year we do a recap of what we [42:14] accomplished and worked on in the previous year um so this morning I'd like to give a brief presentation to [42:20] summarize some of the some of those Key activities that the H participated in um [42:25] there is a full report uh that's in the packet we'll have that posted online later today as well like we always [42:31] do um it's full of facts um and data and tables and uh it's not the not the most [42:37] exciting read but we wanted to get the information out there what I have for you this morning is not a page by Page [42:43] turn of that document but more of a higher level summary um so overall uh the pace of [42:50] construction and the volume of construction in a in a Dina slowed last year uh that was not unique to the to [42:56] the city but uh obviously throughout the Metro the state and the nation um uh and [43:03] my focus there is um or actually my focus in this report is those larger projects right I'm we're not really [43:08] looking at house additions or single family um new construction um nor are we [43:14] looking at tenantry models or a business turning over from one operator to the next operator but it's those big [43:20] projects that really make an impact to our local economy uh this map shows the [43:25] approximate location of a number of of the of the larger projects that that were under construction last [43:31] year um and as as you can notice uh the majority of our reinvestment and our [43:36] major projects are in that south southeastern quadrant in the greater Southdale neighborhood and Pentagon [43:43] Park so the H does not get involved in every project um most projects uh [43:49] historically in Adina are privately financed um but there are some where there's unique needs and unique [43:55] challenges uh and the developers are are are willing to work with the city to accomplish our goals um so some of the [44:02] projects that we finished this past year um uh are the 4040 uh senior apartments [44:08] uh and then the Sound Apartments on 76th now when I say finished there's different ways to measure them um but [44:14] from the h perspective it's when the final paperwork gets in place um uh and [44:20] then of course we're still um a few years ago we finished the lauran the Nolan Mains the 66 West all those [44:27] finished but yet they still um since the hraa was involved they're still on our books for several [44:33] years uh in addition of to projects that are finished there's still a lot of projects that are Midstream uh there's [44:39] visible progress but they're not done yet uh in the Grand View District we have that uh uh the public [44:45] infrastructure is mostly complete I think we're still waiting on handrails that are um going to be here this spring [44:52] is what they're telling us um that uh industry is still seeing delays uh the [44:57] Meson green just across the street from City Hall is is substantially finished [45:02] people started moving in on February 1st the building looks looks great and a lot of the public infrastructure the roads [45:08] the sidewalks uh bike routes in this area are also going in uh down on on [45:14] France Avenue at 70th in France and 72nd in France we're seeing the first steps of Redevelopment um with the buildings [45:21] being cleared and some of the site work happening we still have a ways to go to actually get the new project up uh as [45:27] the capital markets are really delayed and then we're still seeing a lot of progress at Pentagon Village that Pentagon Park area not complete we're [45:35] get we're seeing some projects complete there's still a ways to go on that whole area um but those are some of those [45:41] highlighted areas and then a quick summary of our spark program uh this was funding uh for job creation and small [45:48] businesses uh we've used this three times so far two projects are finished and one is still pending um the the [45:55] theater was finished uh two years ago the Adina innov Innovation lab was just opened up this last November uh and then [46:02] we're still working with a developer on a restaurant music venue uh that's still pending and that one's in [46:08] progress so some of the highlights um just want to talk about four or five projects here um this is an image the [46:16] rendering of the 4040 Flats um the HRA was heavily involved in this one to to [46:22] deliver new affordably priced senior housing uh in the community so in the [46:27] last several months that's transitioned from a pretty rendering to a real building where people live [46:33] in uh on France Avenue uh the US Bank site uh a large six Acre Site we saw the [46:40] the first step in that project and that was the construction of the new bank and these are like puzzle pieces you can't [46:46] do anything until you move that bank and then allow the rest of the site to develop so this is is an interesting one [46:54] at least the first step is underway um uh the other steps are following but as I as we discussed at a previous meeting [47:01] um the capital markets are slow so um we did Issue an extension to give the developer a little bit more time to to [47:07] get his financing for the rest of it but when you look at the tax impact of even [47:12] a simple project like this it's pretty interesting um so this table shows the [47:19] actual taxes paid by this by this particular site last year versus what's [47:26] projected this year um the the math is a little bit rough [47:32] because the final tax bills haven't gone out gone out yet so this is the estimate that comes in the mail to your house [47:38] that shows here's approximately what your taxes are going to be this next year so even for a small project like [47:44] this uh last year's value um of the land was about 1.3 million um this year's [47:51] value is 4.3 now I should note that when the tax assessor measures that the [47:57] projects aren't finished it's probably a shell and maybe some dirt it's not a finished project so it actually takes a [48:03] couple years for the full project to be reflected in the numbers so when I use [48:08] the term unfinished that's that's what I mean the building isn't fully done according to the tax assessor but prior [48:15] to construction uh this site paid $8,000 to the school district um after [48:21] construction they pay $224,000 to the school district um to the county and the [48:26] City they pay about5 to $6,000 uh before construction after [48:32] construction they pay three times as much um this project is a commercial [48:38] project not not residential so they still pay a lot of taxes to the state [48:43] and the fiscal disparities pool um so that that tripled from 21,000 to 60,000 [48:50] um and at this point we still haven't started collecting any Tiff that while we created a tiff District um and the [48:56] clock is running for the developer to start doing something we haven't started collecting anything yet so um until the [49:02] ACT until the developer actually starts that project the taxes continue to flow [49:08] so I wanted to to walk through this because even a fairly simple project taking an old building that's pretty [49:15] much off the tax rolls um except for the land and replacing it with a new building we're seeing values to the [49:22] school and in the city and the county and the State triple [49:28] and now that that First Bank uh piece is moved um and it's a beautiful beautiful facility if you haven't been there um uh [49:36] now we can free up the site for the rest of it um so that we still have uh sites a b and c on the site um and those are [49:44] com be will be coming in future years I also wanted to highlight some progress at Pentagon Village and this [49:51] has been a slow one right we've been talking about Pentagon Village for 10 years um but during the pandemic this is [49:57] the site that got hit the hardest um this is the site where there were projects queued up ready to go and then [50:05] the world stopped um so the developer has um has been continuing to push on [50:11] this one of course the site work um the roads the pipes the utilities the park [50:16] the parking that was all finished years ago um lot one the retail buildings are finally fully leased um uh they were [50:25] under contract to be leased before the pandemic and those all walked away um but now they're fully leased uh and [50:31] occupied so there's three restaurants a co-working space um those are looking great lot three the Eddie Apartments is [50:38] finished occupied people started moving in last fall and then lot four is the new bank um they'll be open up in March [50:45] or April of this year that's looking really nice another example of the this is the [50:50] Eddie apartments on lot three um this is the pretty rendering um and then the [50:56] this is what it looks like um uh and I should note that while this is located [51:02] in in a tiff District this project in each of these private projects are privately financed without Tiff so the [51:09] tax increment goes to paying for the roads the park the parking all those types of things all that [51:15] infrastructure and if you look at the tax measurement again this is the tax bill that that comes in in into your [51:21] mailbox in the unfinished state so from raw land to a half finished building um [51:28] in the last year the valuation tripled from about 6 million to about 15 we're [51:34] expecting that to go up quite a bit next year because next year when the assessor walks out there it will be 100% finished [51:40] um so that number will go up but the taxes paid to the school district more than doubled from [51:47] $27,000 to $58,000 uh the taxes to the city and the [51:52] county U more than doubled um and this one since it's a residential building [51:58] the way tax laws are working in Minnesota there's no money is paid to the state and there's no money taken [52:05] away from a Dina to put into the fiscal disparities pool um so that there's an [52:11] immediate bump to all of the taxing districts um and since this one isn't a [52:16] tiff district there is tax increment that's collected um want to be clear about that [52:22] so now they're starting to pay that increment and that's what's that's where the fun funding is coming from to pay [52:27] for the roads the sewers all the things that make this project [52:33] possible across the street we've also seen progress on the Fred um this one is [52:38] also in a tiff District but no Tiff was awarded this was all private by the developer um but yet this came after the [52:46] Pentagon Village so they have to go in pieces so if you don't get the first piece you don't get the second third [52:51] fourth or fifth so this is the pretty R the pretty rendering from a few few years ago [52:57] this is today's image on a very cloudy wintry day in Minnesota um but the project uh started moving people in last [53:04] June um I met with their manager recently and their leasing is off the rails it's um uh they said they told me [53:12] this is the fastest lease up their company has experienced um so that's [53:17] great to hear and from a taxes perspective um again when the tax [53:23] assessor walks out there on the first of every year uh in 23 it was basically [53:28] dirt um uh in at least 2023 taxes uh for [53:33] 2024 taxes there it was mostly finished but not finished so again these numbers [53:38] will go up next year um but the Basic Value from 2023 was pegged at 4 million [53:46] that increased by a factor of 10 to 38 million the direct taxes paid to the [53:53] schools increase from $21,000 to [53:58] $143,000 those are direct taxes to the ad school district of course the city [54:04] county and other agencies get a piece as well um and this one is collecting tax [54:09] increment so there actually is increment being being generated from the site um [54:15] uh in 2024 that's projected to be about 250,000 that goes to help pay for all [54:21] the infrastructure that help the first project get built which then allow the second and third and subsequent projects [54:28] so I just wanted to to provide the summary of of the current taxation uh that these properties are [54:34] paying and then one of the LA the last projects I have another success story The Adina Innovation lab uh this was a [54:41] long time coming uh uh Lori Severson and I and the Chamber of Commerce crew have been talking about something like this [54:47] for years and in the in the last economic climate it became apparent that it this was the right time uh the [54:54] Chamber of Commerce found the right the right place place we help them with a construction loan to build that new uh [55:00] that new center it's it's essentially A Small Business Development Center where they can help um entrepreneurs and and [55:07] businesses that are seeking to grow learn to improve their trade we issued a loan of about $610,000 last year uh and [55:15] uh they are under uh under contract to repay that I believe over seven years their first repayment check was received [55:22] in January so we're right on Pace with that and they're continuing with their programming just like we intended so [55:27] it's nice to see that one done um and then one final example of of [55:34] a finished project um this this is the Nolan Mains and the that Center parking [55:40] garage so this was finished in 20120 but I wanted to share it just again for context what one of the reasons that we [55:46] do tax increment this parcel pre-development had been tax exempt for decades for a couple Generations [55:52] actually had not paid a penny towards uh the taxes after development we attracted [55:58] nearly $80 million of private investment that built our the the city plaza the [56:03] city parking all all the infrastructure we wanted we issued uh in return to the [56:09] developer a pay as you go Tiff note to reimburse them for all the things we asked them to build and we've been [56:15] making progress payments towards that some of the other um positive things that came out of that investment uh 17 [56:23] new businesses mostly small local business is attracted to that property [56:28] uh a couple n couple franchises but mostly small um in the public Plaza we've held [56:35] over 50 events in that Plaza and we intend to do that uh year after year and [56:40] of course about 120 public parking stalls more public infrastructure improved telecommunications in that [56:46] whole area and a similar story for taxation so um that project went from [56:53] paying zero to the city the schools the the county and everybody else uh for [56:59] their their tax bill last year their actual bill not their estimated they paid [57:04] $158,000 to the D schools they paid $106,000 into that fiscal disparities [57:11] because it is part of it is commercial so di doesn't see that but that's just how Minnesota state law Works um uh they [57:19] paid $39,000 towards local maintenance um sidewalk shoveling repairs the [57:26] parking garages all those types of things and then to the county and the city we each received about [57:32] $20,000 um but in the way our taxation system is set up the schools typically [57:37] have the largest tax bill and uh with this project they again are the biggest beneficiary when when the $10 million [57:44] note is finished being paid off all their taxes will then go back to stop [57:50] they'll all go back to the city school state Etc so we still have 15 years or [57:55] so to finish that one but I just wanted to provide a quick snapshot and a checkin of what these actual tax bills [58:02] look like um and then you've seen the slide before but um uh this is this is the uh [58:09] the annual update of how much of the D tax base is contained within a tiff District right now we're the green bar [58:17] on the bottom about 1% of our tax Bas is in a tiff District by comparison we looked at our peer communities in hanban [58:23] County uh there's no right or wrong in this this there's no ceiling there's no floor um but whenever a diet does use [58:30] Tiff we we try to be very very um Limited in how we use it to make sure we use it for good [58:37] things and then uh looking ahead to 2024 uh there's still more to do Stephanie [58:42] and I will continue to be working on projects to pursue the goals of the HRA [58:47] um there's a myriad of of the affordable housing programs that will be be uh in operation we continue to provide support [58:54] for small businesses uh there's a lot of existing initiatives and paperwork that's part of the process that that's [59:00] still out there but we're always looking for new opportunities new ways to deliver and meet the goal of the [59:07] H um so looking ahead to 2024 um I don't want to take the time to [59:12] run through this list but there's a lot of things we can forecast today um and there's I'm sure a few surprises that [59:17] that are going to come up that will work with you along the way um so with that that is a a a summary of of where we [59:25] were in 2023 and some of the things we're looking for in 2024 with that happy to [59:31] answer any questions if you like perfect thank you Commissioners any questions yes commissioner Pierce um thank you for [59:37] that I so I have a a request so I liked the project slides with the the taxes on [59:45] there um I think it would be great if we could [59:51] calculate based on projects I'm thinking out loud [59:57] um how much those projects have increased the tax base and I like the [1:00:03] you did County city school um and so I think knowing what [1:00:08] that total is would be great and then and then you talked about the [1:00:17] increment and I think you got I think this gets like really close if you add [1:00:23] this next piece um and so having that and and then take the [1:00:28] increment and the way you just did the presentation I thought of the increment [1:00:33] as deferred right so I never thought about it in those terms um and so what you could do is say this is all the tax [1:00:41] base that we've increased by these projects and some of them used Tiff some didn't and then you could also show [1:00:49] those that are using Tiff you have on there what the increment is and then we [1:00:54] could actually speak to if we didn't do those projects then the same amount would have gone to [1:01:02] the the schools to the city to the county but we did the project we've in [1:01:07] right we've increased the tax value and then after whatever the ter term is 10 [1:01:14] years 15 years 20 years or what have you then that increment now goes to the school to the county to the state um and [1:01:22] so I think it it might be a neat way to just kind of walk through [1:01:27] um the the Tiff conversation because that I think that makes it pretty easy to understand it makes it easier to [1:01:33] understand what I've seen in the in the past so I that would be my ask if you could kind of sketch that out and maybe [1:01:41] we can chat about it and maybe refine it a little bit but thank you very much happy too [1:01:46] M um I I also found that to be helpful um but I think we also need to include [1:01:53] other metrics and I'm thinking of the projects where the developer gets [1:01:59] massive setback variances and we're essentially treating the site as if it were twice the size that it actually is [1:02:07] and um you know just thinking about how when you go from a 25ft setback to a 7 [1:02:14] foot setback along an arterial Road the risks to pedestrians and to bikers just [1:02:22] increases tremendously and then um also just thinking about you know we've had a [1:02:27] lot of dialogue about tree canopy um for residential um projects but when we look [1:02:34] at other projects and again with those you know let's just pretend it's twice [1:02:39] the size it actually is it makes it really hard to put in you know an oak [1:02:44] tree or you know what you need and so we are in a lot of the areas that we're [1:02:49] developing um really diminishing what is already a meager tree canopy and I think [1:02:55] there needs to be excuse me a value that is attached to that as well um so I want to and and you [1:03:02] know trees especially you know near freeways they offer you know they can [1:03:08] filter the air they are there you know helping to absorb the water there's this health component that is just so so [1:03:15] critical and important so thank you thank you member commissioner so I have [1:03:21] a couple of questions for you um what is the balance in the spark fund and is it [1:03:28] 2024 that we have to spend them by or 2025 uh that's a great question I don't [1:03:34] know the precise amount off the top of my head um but we're obligated to commit [1:03:39] the funds by 2025 by the end of 2025 we have to commit the funds um to [1:03:46] make it super clean it'd be great to to spend the funds by that date but we have [1:03:52] to obligate them um uh I'm aiming at spending them just to give us some [1:03:58] wiggle room at the end uh and the balance available is about four million give or take okay terrific thank you and [1:04:04] then my second question is when we build these mixed use developments um so Maison green for example does is there a [1:04:13] percentage of commercial that then tips it into that State Property Tax and fiscal disparities payment U or is it [1:04:20] any amount of commercial tips it into that how does that work yeah yeah good question so uh the fiscal disparities [1:04:27] and the state taxation right applies to any commercial one square foot 100 [1:04:33] square foot or a th square feet um anytime you've got commercial that automatically is taxed by the state and [1:04:39] the fiscal disparities um part of the reasons that we that we are making some of these [1:04:45] shifts though is like like where the Fret is the Pentagon Park that used to be office and so right away 40% of any [1:04:53] taxes from that project go into fiscal disparities which is great if you're a city other than a Dina because they get [1:04:59] part of our tax base but when you convert it to multif family the fiscal disparities goes away so the 100% of the [1:05:07] taxes generated and paid by that property stay local and so in some of [1:05:12] these um rede Redevelopment projects we're seeing some massive increases in our local tax base because we don't have [1:05:20] to siphon 40% of it out terrific thank you so much yes commissioner yes but uh [1:05:27] when we talk about how property is valued uh walkability is an factor that [1:05:33] is becoming more and more prevalent particularly with private residences and so when you [1:05:40] remove um the mix of commercial and you [1:05:46] essentially take away the ability to have walkable communities you diminish [1:05:51] that so I think it it really is a balancing act and I think we have really [1:05:56] we are incentivizing purely residential projects to a huge degree at the expense [1:06:03] of our nodes and we we really need to think about what the long-term [1:06:08] implication of that is any other comments okay thank you very much [1:06:14] manager neindorf all right um Commissioners comments um any comments from Commissioners okay and we have our [1:06:21] director comments I'm sorry I had one comment uh to add to mine and that is that at our January 11th meeting we had [1:06:28] three Community comments oh okay absolutely and uh we didn't get a chance to address those earlier they were all [1:06:33] three however on two subjects um well one subject it was around the the the [1:06:39] city's uh State Legislative platform the two issues items 2.4 and [1:06:44] 2.5 uh were found objectionable and they asked the council to uh remove those [1:06:50] items and you did or they asked the HRA to remove those items and the council did that terrific thank you I'm sorry [1:06:55] skipped over the on the agenda okay any other fmer comments or day do I have a motion to adjourn moved second motion [1:07:03] moved by uh commissioner agu second by member Pierce any further uh discussions [1:07:09] all those in favor signify by saying I I I all right we're adjourned thank [1:07:24] you for