[0:13] February 4th 2025 our apologies for the slight delay and getting started here at

[0:18] 7:10 we were doing some preliminary work on budgeting for the years ahead uh

[0:24] upstairs in our work session and um meeting with our Police and Fire Chiefs and uh talking about their operations so

[0:31] uh again my apologies for the slightly delayed start to the meeting um as

[0:36] director benro said we're continuing to do these meetings in a hybrid sort of way uh we've been we did it all the way

[0:42] through covid pandemic post pandemic now we're continuing that same process

[0:47] sometimes we have a public hearing and there's always public comment opportunity for Community comment uh no

[0:53] public hearing this evening as director benat indicated uh but there will be an opportunity for Community comment if

[0:59] someone wants to speak to the council about a matter that's not on the agenda this evening or scheduled for a future

[1:04] public hearing you're welcome to come forward if you're in the uh audience you'll have three minutes you'll get a

[1:09] yellow light the warning light to come on when you got 30 seconds left should be thinking about wrapping up your comments so we can treat everybody the

[1:15] same from a time stpoint uh and then we'll do the uh folks that might be turning in uh tuning in virtually after

[1:22] that so uh having provided that information let me now ask our clerk Sharon Allison to call the role cleris

[1:29] Council member agnu here council member Jackson is absent council member Pierce here council member Risser here mayor

[1:35] hubin here uh next is Pledge of

[1:41] Allegiance allegiance to the flag United United States of America and to the

[1:46] Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with libery and

[1:52] justice for all thanks everyone uh and now we have a uh form of

[2:00] meeting agenda in front of us this evening is there anyone who wishes to

[2:06] modify the agenda on the council from or from a staff standpoint is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda is

[2:11] published so move second we got a motion by member Pier second by member rard to adopt the

[2:18] meeting agenda as published any further conversation on that issue all those in favor of adopting the meeting agenda say

[2:24] I I I oppos carried uh before we go to community comment I I don't know if

[2:29] anyone in the AUD audiences here with regard to item um 7.2 which um was

[2:35] intended to be a second reading on um uh possibly adding to the code the language

[2:42] uh dealing with the sale of inhumanely bred animals the sale of inhumanely bred

[2:48] animals and uh council member agu has been working on this matter and she's had some conversations I think with

[2:54] folks whose input we would like and she would appreciate and I'm going to turn to her now uh and uh I think we're going

[3:01] to be tabling this matter but I'll let member U take it from here yeah absolutely thank you um so I had uh

[3:06] members of The Humane Society reach out and one they're really excited that we're looking at this as a council but

[3:13] they also um had some suggestions on incorporating it back but they just got

[3:18] back to me today on um some of those suggestions so I just wanted to give us proper time to integrate those consider

[3:25] um the feedback and the impacts that it would have to the ordinance and hoping to address table this until March 4th

[3:32] okay so you would you would move that the uh 7.2 the second reading of ordinance 22501 be tabled to the March

[3:40] 4th 2025 city council meeting for further discussion yes all right yes is there a second to that a second all

[3:47] right we got a motion a second to uh table uh item 7.2 which is ordinance

[3:53] 20251 which would amend chapter 8 concerning the sale of inhumanely bred animals to the March 4 25 meeting any

[4:00] further discussion on that matter all those in favor of tbling the matter stated to March 4 2025 meeting say I I I

[4:08] oppos carried all right thanks member U for that update uh now we're going to go back to um Community comment and um

[4:16] we'll take folks I see a few of our residents fellow residents in the audience uh who may want to uh come up

[4:22] and address the Council on a matter of concern to them that's not on the agenda uh or scheduled for a future public

[4:29] hearing so if you feel feel welcome to come

[4:34] forward hello danie Weston 6136 Brookview Avenue I'm back um at the last

[4:41] city council meeting two weeks ago um on the agenda was the um item of

[4:49] an a um so-called conservation easement

[4:54] uh that was discussed and what came up in that regard was the process and that

[5:01] the city does not have a set process um or guidelines of how to do that sort of

[5:08] a thing um one thing that made me um sit up a little little bit more in

[5:16] my chair in the remarks toward the end of all of that discussion before the vote or maybe it was after the vote

[5:22] whichever um mayor holand said we used a process that was kind of customized to

[5:29] the situation we had a unique process we used then a little further into that

[5:35] same minute he referred to a conversation he'd had with a retired

[5:41] County engineer that told him and I'm quoting exactly as it was in the

[5:47] recording Jim don't let that concern about process cause you to kill a good

[5:53] project don't ever let process kill a good project

[6:00] and I have an issue with that because process is

[6:07] something that gives us fairness it gives us set

[6:15] guidelines and when you do not have a process and you do not

[6:20] follow a process even when one is established what can happen is the city

[6:29] can be responsible for code violations violations of what state

[6:34] statute says you are to do and it can cause

[6:40] favoritism and I have seen this happen personally with a house that was built

[6:46] starting in 2008 two doors down from me the city code was not followed it was

[6:54] allowed to be placed where it should not have been placed by almost 8 ft

[7:00] and there were many violations of our city code as far as building procedures

[7:06] process inspections it ended up with the house having a stop work order finally put

[7:13] onto it a month after the first complaints and the city was sued this

[7:21] causes the taxpayers money lawyer time and this is not okay because

[7:29] process code was not followed we need to make sure that this

[7:37] is that we do not do things as they may have been done in the 60s 7s when ah I

[7:44] know you you're good it's fine you can pass but that's not okay anymore process

[7:52] and following what the city code and statutes State statutes say you are

[7:57] supposed to do is extremely important when those are not

[8:03] done it becomes a very shaky dangerous situation and our federal government

[8:10] right now is seeing huge issues because of that very thing happening so I don't

[8:17] want to see this done at a local level if we've got the rules follow

[8:23] them thank you yeah thanks M Wesson I appreciate your perspective on it I'll address it in the few minutes

[8:31] here context um anyone

[8:51] else good evening mayor H and council members my name is Steve Brown I live at

[8:57] 5528 Halifax Lane I want to comment in support of

[9:03] your use of Tiff for redevelopment projects one reason for my support is

[9:09] that I believe that Tiff is good for taxpayers how our taxes are calculated

[9:14] is incredibly complex but this chart illustrates one very simple

[9:24] concept this was brought to my attention by a presentation made in 2019 by by

[9:29] then council member Mike fiser council member Fischer said that

[9:34] we can think of the city's tax capacity as a pie that big green circle that you see there each resident share of the pie

[9:42] is represented by the small orange slice this slice here and then if you think

[9:48] about a typical Tiff project it typically will involve a large piece of project and so it's represented here is

[9:54] this large yellow slice the yellow

[10:00] when property under goes Redevelopment the property increases in value typically and its share of tax capacity

[10:07] increases so that yellow slice gets bigger when that happens the share of

[10:14] tax capacity for the resident decreases because the pi is not changing

[10:20] all that much in total size and they pay less taxes they would

[10:26] than they would have paid if the project hadn't happened so so one key question is have Tiff projects increased in value

[10:32] over time and Mike answered that question with a example from Grand View

[10:38] Square

[10:44] project and this was a project that took place between 1984 and

[10:49] 2010 and it involved the new library that was built into din at that time and

[10:55] what Mike did was had the city resources put together this chart which showed

[11:01] that over the time period for that project the slice of that that yellow

[11:07] slice of P grew by 830 per. that was almost eight times faster

[11:14] than the overall tax capacity of the city so the city grew but that

[11:19] particular project grew a lot faster and that meant that every single residents

[11:25] share decreased a little bit that's a good thing for

[11:30] taxpayers so the second question is how have other Tiff projects performed over

[11:36] time so in the recent H year in review they published this chart and you don't

[11:43] have to read the numbers on this chart you just have to recognize that there are a lot of numbers on the chart and

[11:50] the fact that there are numbers on the chart says that all of those projects that are listed there the ones that have

[11:57] completed Construction are actually paying incremental taxes that's a good thing that's like

[12:04] paying interest on a bank account if you were to invest in a bank and it didn't

[12:10] pay interest you wouldn't be happy if you're getting the interest you're happy

[12:16] in this case all the projects are paying interest and so far in the last six years we've had about 28 million do in

[12:24] incremental taxes generated by the projects in which the city invested Tiff

[12:30] thanks Mr Brown I need to have you wrap up your comments so I am done okay I don't want to overstate the importance

[12:37] of Tiff Tiff is only 1.5% of total tax capacity but I think it's important that

[12:43] we all recognize that it's been official to us as taxpayers thank you thank you Mr

[12:50] Brown anyone else in the

[12:56] audience he let's turn to the virtual world we'll see if we have anybody tuning

[13:04] in I do have a caller um I'm going to unmute your line caller and um please

[13:10] Begin by stating your full name and record your full name and record your full name and address for the record

[13:17] please go ahead caller thank you uh This is Connie

[13:22] Corino 4509 Garrison Lane so um

[13:29] let's see first I I want to thank you for keeping Community comment on tonight's agenda and I urge you to

[13:36] continue to make this important communication tool a part of the community engagement and the public

[13:43] input process and just a few moments ago for example there were two residents who

[13:49] presented uh issues that um are of community interest and not and and

[13:56] Beyond just presenting to five council members in a close door session so I think it's really important that we keep

[14:01] Community comment available and my second point it was actually through

[14:08] looking for an update on that proposal um to remove Community comment

[14:14] from the council agenda that lends me to this next point and it certainly is

[14:20] easier and more direct to provide this note via either in person or in this

[14:25] virtual uh format then a closed door session just with Council um what I was

[14:31] looking for the item I'm looking for um I won't mention it so that I comply with

[14:37] your guidelines and rules but I found the new format to view Council agendas online very

[14:44] cumbersome um for for instance the item I was looking for it was really

[14:49] difficult to find the attachments they were rather buried and I wanted to learn more so I would would encourage you to

[14:58] find an easy I uh way to make all of the agenda items with the attachments for

[15:04] everything from the consent agenda all the way through the reports easier to access thank you thank you m

[15:14] Kino okay all right um yeah thanks Mr Brown thanks M Kino

[15:22] and Miss Weston I was probably a little bit too glib when I was commenting on what the county attorney told me uh and

[15:29] I could see where you would come up with some concerns about that uh it was in the context of um where you otherwise

[15:37] had an adequate and appropriate sort of process that you don't want to

[15:42] let the um uh some concerns about the adequacy of that

[15:48] process uh you know otherwise kill a project that was worthwhile doing and uh

[15:53] that's not even the most articulate way to express it but the concerns that you've expressed uh really don't go so

[16:00] much to process as they do to enforcement in my opinion so um but nonetheless I thought your point was

[16:06] well taken and um certainly am a believer over the years I've been doing this that the process you employ is is

[16:13] very important to follow uh as well now whether we should have a set process for

[16:19] dealing with proposed conservation easements um because of the varied

[16:24] nature of those things over time um I think that's why they have tended to get kind of customized whether it's 50 I'll

[16:32] use an example of a 50 foot conservation easement along one of our lakes or uh

[16:38] the one like we discussed at the recent meeting and um but there certainly something we could take a look at have

[16:43] our City attorney and staff look at to see if they think that has Merit to create some kind of a process around

[16:49] conservation easement so and U manager Neil is nodding his head affirmatively so I I think we said that at the at the

[16:55] council meeting too yeah so we are going to work on that all right very good and I don't know if you stuck around to hear

[17:02] that but at the last meeting we were going to take a look at that so uh thanks for coming tonight and thanks for

[17:07] your observations okay um now we're going to

[17:13] move on from Community comment uh into our city manager response to community comments that were made at the last meeting and manager Neil have you got

[17:19] anything you wanted to comment on thank you honor members of council uh at our Fe at our January 21st meeting we had

[17:26] three speakers under Community comment no question uh we had some folks talking from

[17:31] Project the project Earth group from the high school uh we had two representatives from Hindus of North

[17:36] America that talked a little bit about some uh uh collaboration they were doing with the police department and uh Miss

[17:43] Weston talked about u a public forum Community comment um but offered no

[17:50] questions okay all right uh thanks for that now

[17:55] we're going to move on to the uh consent agenda and I I know that member rer wanted us to pull items 6.4 and 6.5 do

[18:03] any other council members wish to have an item pulled off to consent agenda is there a motion to adopt the items on the

[18:09] consent agenda with the exception of items 6.4 and 6.5 so second got a motion second to

[18:16] adopt the items on the consent agenda in a single motion member Pierce moves member U seconds the adoption of those

[18:23] items on the consent agenda a single motion with the exception of items 6.4 and 6.5 uh uh with respect to the motion as

[18:31] stated uh is there any further discussion all those in favor of adopting the items on the consent agenda

[18:36] with the exception to items 6.4 and 6.5 which will take up individually say I I

[18:41] I opposed carried items on the consent agenda adopted with uh except with

[18:47] respect to items 6.4 and 6.5 and 6.4 involves a proposed

[18:53] resolution amending the 2025 budget that's embodied in resolution 20254 14

[18:59] I'm now going to turn to member Risser to hear what her concerns are with regard to that matter member rer um I

[19:05] was specifically interested in knowing more about the 1% reductions and when I

[19:11] look at the table the top item uh and this was to reduce the budget by 1%

[19:18] which was agreed upon and we voted and approved that uh but seeing the

[19:24] $192,000 reduction from the police department caught my attention and so I thought maybe we could learn a little

[19:30] bit more about that and the other items as well sure thank you member rer member of

[19:38] council members of council um I think the process uh that that we used uh to

[19:44] come up with the these savings is important to understand we went to the executive leader assistant city manager

[19:50] lens and I went to the assist went to the members of the executive leadership team we discussed uh the challenge that

[19:57] we got from the council and how to meet it um we received back from all of those

[20:03] different groups uh potential reductions in their budgets and we used U quite a

[20:09] number of them to get to this $545,000 reduction the vacancy placement

[20:15] uh uh item in the police department is one that came from them uh it and I

[20:21] think the chief discussed it in the works uh work session a little bit ago just the challenges of of moving people

[20:28] from civilian to Cadet to police officer and so when they took a look at their

[20:33] budget and took a look at what they could possibly uh bring on this year this this amount was something that they

[20:40] thought they could uh uh use as part of the reduction and not have a a material

[20:47] impact on their Staffing levels thank you um with the elections

[20:54] um and administration it sounds like this is a cost that we would not occur

[20:59] incur anyway am I reading that incorrectly right that's that's a good one because that's a number that we

[21:05] included in that budget um and then when we went back to look at it uh for 2025

[21:10] this will be the first year in I think four years Miss Allison that we won't

[21:16] have an election uh this year so that money is not won't be spent because we won't have an

[21:22] election so is that a budget reduction or is that just not a cost that we're going to have that's a reduction we're

[21:28] reducing that that item in the expense budget in that department okay thank you

[21:35] right member rer having uh received that information do you care to move the adoption of resolution

[21:43] 20254 so moved second member rer moves the adoption of the amended 2020 2025

[21:51] budget reflecting the 1% service reduction in those different categories embodied in resolution

[21:57] 2025-the motion by m member rer as I stated and the second by member Pierce

[22:02] any further discussion all those in favor of uh adoption of resolution

[22:08] 20254 14 amending the 2025 budget say I I I opposed

[22:14] carried uh resolution 2025-the you had as well uh that was

[22:23] with respect to the potential adoption of the 2025 through 2030 capital

[22:28] Improvement plan go ahead correct um and I did not vote for this and so this is

[22:33] again pulling an item um that I previously did not support and being consistent with that I still have

[22:40] concerns about the CIP particularly in the introduction um where it's noted

[22:46] that there is a significant increase um going from 547 million um that's what it

[22:53] is uh from a $300 million plan and listed in that is 16 million for the

[22:59] France Avenue Crossing at Gallagher in 72nd and I do still have concerns about that so it's procedural I want to be

[23:06] consistent with my vote um sure thank you for that uh this might be a good opportunity for manager Neil to express

[23:15] um uh what we do from a process standpoint with respect to Capital Improvement and uh how that that

[23:21] fiveyear Capital Improvement plan works regardless of the sequence of years that we're in so so thank you uh mayor

[23:28] members of Council the first thing that we do is we take the existing 5-year plan and we try to make try to build

[23:34] some consistency in whatever that CIP has into the future CIP it's important

[23:40] that if we have a project that has uh Council support uh that we include the

[23:46] project even if it isn't fully funded uh so that when we as we March out towards those out years towards 27 28 29 uh we

[23:55] we are constantly reminding ourselves that we have a project there that a council or a previous Council wanted to

[24:02] do and we need to build funding for it so we will build if this is if this item

[24:07] stays in the CIP and it stays in the next CIP as we get closer to it it gets more serious and that gives that gives

[24:14] the council the city and the city staff uh the The Authority they need to go

[24:20] forward and make plans so year one ends up being uh in the capital Improvement plan ends up

[24:26] being something as part of the budget for the but even in that situation like our last

[24:32] budget we removed some items from the capital Improvement plan uh to uh to get

[24:38] the budget reductions that we wanted to see as a council overall so just because some an item is in the CIP doesn't give

[24:45] staff 100% uh discretion to just go build it right um in most cases those

[24:52] projects exceed the $20,000 level so it does give us the authority to plan it and to uh maybe

[25:00] acquire Professional Services to work on architecture or engineering um but we still come back to the council to

[25:07] approve a project and to award a contract any other comments questions member

[25:13] rer um briefly with this one it's a project that has not had gone before the

[25:19] public for an event and we've talked about you know possibly having something like that but I I really do have issues

[25:25] with it and continue to have issues with that um so thank you I want to ask you

[25:31] if you'll move the matter then thank you is there a motion to um adopt uh

[25:38] resolution 2025 or excuse me adopt the capital Improvement plan for the years 2025 through 2030 as suggested by staff

[25:46] so moved second ra moves member Pierce uh seconds the uh adoption of the 2025

[25:53] through 2020 2030 Capital Improvement plan any further discussion all those in

[25:58] favor of adoption of the capital Improvement plan for the years 2025 through 2030 say I I I opposed n carried

[26:08] uh the 2025 through 2030 Capital Improvement plan is adopted all right

[26:14] that completes our work in the consent portion of the agenda uh we're going to now move on to the reports and

[26:20] recommendations portion of the agenda and we have um one matter remaining in

[26:25] that portion of the uh agenda this evening and that's a plan review by some enterprising young

[26:32] gentlemen who uh would like to get some Council

[26:37] feedback on a proposed project uh they're thinking about on 5 at 5516

[26:42] Vernon Avenue and cry tar community development director has the matter and then we'll ask the uh applicants to come

[26:48] up and uh present their version of the project and we'll have a conversation about it so director CH yes thank you

[26:55] mayor members of council I'll just quickly Tee It Up and then turn it over to the potential applicants so this site

[27:02] is located west of Grand View the Grand View area it's located on

[27:08] Vernon property zoned R1 single dwelling unit district it's guided in our

[27:14] comprehensive plan for low density residential which is our single family uh residential area here's an area look

[27:22] at the site it's about 38,000 Square ft so it's a large property located south

[27:29] of Highland School there's another very large property to the east

[27:36] 5508 little subdivision culdesac off of Vernon to the west and Vernon Avenue to

[27:42] the South here's a look at the site this is the site we're looking at and then

[27:48] the adjacent single family home you can see it's um there's a row of trees that

[27:54] kind of separate that that little culdesac to the West The Proposal is to tear down that single

[28:01] family home and build two town home or duplexes they would be two story

[28:06] structures about 3,000 square ft in size a formal application would require an

[28:12] amendment to the comprehensive plan to low density attached residential that

[28:18] would allow those two dwelling unit or town homes on the site a rezoning to

[28:24] prd2 and a site plan review just quick quickly looking at the

[28:29] prd2 zoning standards this project would be in compliance with

[28:34] those if you tuned in the Planning Commission I mentioned a potential varia

[28:39] regarding usable lot area we've recalculated that looking at the definition and actually this project

[28:46] would comply we um the code only excludes

[28:52] Front Street setbacks and side street setbacks so the the area that I

[28:59] demonstrated at Planning Commission the required setback areas are included in

[29:05] that that usable lot area so there would be no variance there issues and

[29:10] considerations these two sites kind of sit on their the uh somewhat isolated from

[29:17] adjacent properties when you look at the two sites together there's that Wetland

[29:22] to the East Highland School to the North and the single family uh homes to the

[29:27] West so the amendment to the comprehensive plan staff would suggest that both those

[29:33] lots be included to rezone to low density attached the existing single

[29:38] family home to the east could remain under the low density attached

[29:44] designation in their comprehensive PL a single family home would be allowed also want to touch on a somewhat

[29:52] similar situation to the West it's the old Vernon development

[29:58] here's the site we're looking at so it's just to the West this was a site that

[30:04] was rezoned from R1 to uh to the prd2 that we're looking

[30:11] at this evening it was it was the difference however is that it was guided

[30:16] in the comprehensive plan for low density attached residential that took place in

[30:23] 1997 another thing just wanted to mention this would be considered missing middle not necessarily affordable

[30:29] housing but in the the construct of the development itself they're looking at about $7 to

[30:35] $800,000 uh for values of each you go back to Old Vernon for just a moment sure yeah and so that was zoned low

[30:43] density attached it was zoned R1 zoned R1 okay but it was guided in the

[30:50] comprehensive plan for low density attached residential okay and what did

[30:55] it end up getting reson to to prd2 okay so uh it doesn't necessarily

[31:03] mean that you have to have buildings attached because those aren't attached to each other correct they're on zero

[31:09] lot lines they are but that you have that flexibility too under this code

[31:15] designation attached correct okay okay thank you

[31:28] anything else I will turn it over to the applicants okay let's check to see if anybody has any questions for you first

[31:33] before we let you sit back down uh council members questions for director te member Risser can you go back to the

[31:44] Chart so with the proposed um rezoning it's not prd2 but

[31:51] it is um going to result in a potential of

[31:56] five units per per acre not six per acre I only asked because I believe when

[32:03] I watched the Planning Commission there was suggestions that they bump it up from 4 to 6 and I kind of thought does

[32:10] that really work with what is being requested yeah if if that were to happen

[32:16] it it could bump it up into a medium density right okay designation yes thank

[32:21] you okay other questions from Council Members for director Teague all right

[32:27] let's uh bring our applicants up here and um gentlemen if you could introduce

[32:32] yourselves as you come up um so that we know I see three names in the agenda

[32:38] here and I'll let you uh tell us Who's Who and then we'll hear about what you'd

[32:45] like to do over there at this particular location in on Vernon Avenue good evening good evening good evening thank

[32:51] you all for having us uh we're excited to be here um and then am I pressing

[32:58] just the the arrows good okay cool cool uh my name is Jordan Crockett uh with

[33:04] abundance properties um today we're going to walk through Mr Crockett would you give us your business address too

[33:10] please U for the record off the top of my head 6417 pin Avenue uh South

[33:17] Minneapolis yeah thank you um but we'll talk a little little bit about us uh the

[33:23] proposal the plan uh and then we'll walk through some questions uh as well here

[33:29] very good so uh again my name is Jordan Crockett I'm the uh operations project

[33:35] manager here at abundance good evening everybody sorry it's a little loud want

[33:40] to make sure I'm channeling my inner Rockstar like Jennifer said I'm Rashad Kennedy co-founder of abundance

[33:46] properties along with Jordan and Daran I also own and operate a separate entity keny property development uh specializ

[33:52] in new developments uh remodels mixed use multif family

[33:58] um you you name it we've done it uh we I believe you guys have a a packet that

[34:04] shows some our track record so that's a little bit about KY proper vment as well and I'm Daren Fletcher and uh we

[34:12] make abundance properties and uh at abundance properties our mission is to create abundance through rehab and

[34:19] development of communities while empowering and educating others to do the same so there is a project actually

[34:25] that we' love to highlight that we worked with with a nonprofit out of South Minneapolis PPL and we have a

[34:31] video that really shows what that project meant to us as an organization but more importantly the

[34:41] community what's up y'all it's chy holworth with abundance properties y'all

[34:47] it's cold out [Music] here it's cold out here when we first

[34:53] started this project it was warm out the sun was out we had drone shots none of

[34:59] that's happening now it's cold but we still got work to do we've already done Roofing siding Plumbing electrical

[35:07] whatever you can think of we've done it on this rece project and the last part of this is the windows and that's what's

[35:13] happening right now we're doing Chicago Avenue and Portland Avenue windows and uh we getting it done the crew has been

[35:18] amazing and this has been a fun project um that we've been doing with PP so what I'm most excited about with the receip

[35:24] program is how it's allowing emerging developers to add to their portfolio but

[35:31] not have to take on so much risk with grabbing properties that need a ton of work steel so this is a great

[35:37] opportunity for people within the community to now be able to continue to invest back into their community and not

[35:44] take on as much

[35:51] risk our team here at abundance properties have been excited doing this project with PPL because it's bringing

[35:58] forth Equitable transformation here in South Minneapolis the time is now and

[36:04] Legacy starts [Music]

[36:11] here all right and that that was uh our our partner chony who's not currently

[36:16] here um but that's just kind of emulates our team and and what we've done so it's

[36:22] excit I'm sure that was a nice partnership for you with PPL it's it's a great organization yeah absolutely

[36:29] absolutely um well sweet so while we're here today is uh 5516 Vernon uh Avenue

[36:35] which we're proposing town homes and a rezone all right so here's the meat meat

[36:42] and potatoes for y'all um why does it work right so uh the uh visual that

[36:49] you're seeing is actually from you guys's uh or a third party U ofm study that was done uh recently believe 2024

[36:57] but um it shows essentially the recommended areas where density and

[37:04] rezoning uh should occur um and as you can see our site is right there in those

[37:14] zones uh which are recommended to be uh increased in

[37:20] density uh and then that U ofm study that was done um when it kind of comes

[37:27] down to it it breaks down just the value of density uh and what's recommended in

[37:33] or the purpose essentially which you know more density uh allows for more

[37:39] residents to work the jobs in e um which then decreases the vehicle

[37:45] miles traveled uh which therefore uh decreases the greenhouse gases and

[37:53] everything as well and uh overall more usage of the transit system system in

[37:58] Idina which uh is is very clear uh that you guys have noted that you have a goal

[38:04] in 2030 to uh increase uh by double uh

[38:10] the usage of the transit system so this is all all in the line in in in a circle

[38:16] with that um as far as the land use efficiency right so if if the question

[38:22] is you know if somebody would give you an acre and you have the the city in

[38:28] you know as a single family what you would decide to put there right so that's kind of the question there

[38:36] um and the last kind of piece is is our team uh we're a very Dynamic team we

[38:43] have a track record of success uh and we are extremely capable uh we also are

[38:49] invested in the we own the lot so we're here to partner with you guys and really do something special here

[39:01] all right so four units as we can see on the site plan 3,000 sare ft each three

[39:06] beds three baths now I want to touch uh talk a little bit about some of the materials that we're going to be using

[39:13] so I'm going to start with the lp Smart Siding lap shakes board and batting low

[39:18] emission manufacturing process with renewable materials and then resistance to moisture rot and insects reducing

[39:24] maintenance and waste aluminum s in fascia 100% recyclable make it one of

[39:29] the most sustainable materials requires little maintenance eliminating eliminating the need for a frequent

[39:37] repainting windows and doors Anderson 100 series made from fibrex composite

[39:43] 40% reclaimed wood fiber stronger than vinyl low eass Coatings reduce UV and

[39:49] infrared light penetration and then energy efficient exterior doors insulated core reduces heat transfer and

[39:56] then low E glass prevents excessive heat gain low vocc interior and exterior

[40:03] paint improves indoor air quality by reducing harmful emissions eco-friendly with Fe pollutants contributing to

[40:10] sustainability and then some of the Mechanicals I want to touch based on high efficiency Heating and Cooling 97%

[40:16] high efficiency furnace uh gas tankless water heaters reduces standby heat loss improving

[40:22] efficiency by up to 30% and then some of the electrical and

[40:27] Smart Energy features LED lighting uses 70% 75% less energy lasts 25 times

[40:34] longer than regular light bulbs smart thermostats remote control of heating cooling to minimize energy waste energy

[40:42] star appliances reduces overall household energy consumption high efficiency exhaust fans

[40:48] reduces humidity while using less power and then pre-wiring the garages for Ev chargers for um electric

[40:55] vehicles and then with all that to say we have carefully chosen materials that prioritize sustainability Energy

[41:01] Efficiency and durability our focus is on reducing energy consumption and waste

[41:06] while enhancing long-term value for homeowners in the community and then the goal for the end would be um owner

[41:14] occupants and then each townhouse would also be plotted uh for ownership uh by

[41:22] surveyor in the county thanks Mr Kennedy

[41:28] all right so when it when it comes down to it um you D's comprehensive plan the

[41:35] climate action plan the transit plan everything leads to this goal of

[41:40] increasing density in targeted areas um

[41:45] the location and the size you know the stars are aligned here where we own the property we're ready to partner um in an

[41:54] area that is a busy cour Corridor uh where there is going to be a

[42:00] lot more Transit and as well as the size of the lot we can really do something

[42:05] special with um and the last piece uh it's super exciting what we're doing

[42:11] here um not just with the intention of this project but a lot of the other projects we're doing um you know we have

[42:18] the experience the capabilities to really like overd deliver so we'd love to share too um Rashad can uh give a

[42:25] little bit more context to some of the products we we've done uh you know even some of the other stuff that uh he's

[42:31] done in udina as well so thank you guys yeah thank you uh I think good place to

[42:37] start might be if you scroll back on your presentation to that uh site plan

[42:42] there you go just go back there you go maybe that might be a good place to start I'm going to turn to my colleagues

[42:48] here and see uh who has uh any comments they want to make or questions they have

[42:54] member Risser um first I want to thank you for bringing a sketch plan that really

[43:01] reflects the um resoning that you are requesting okay and I know that during

[43:08] the Planning Commission meeting there was a lot about another project that did not get approved that was going for a

[43:14] comprehensive plan Amendment and the difference between what you are

[43:19] presenting and what was presented for that it's just very extremely different

[43:26] okay and the ask that you're making is one that is like a a little

[43:33] step not a huge leap and so I just wanted to get that out there now my

[43:40] understanding is this is going to be architecture slab built how am on okay the one question I

[43:47] have is can you talk about you know you got severe weather um I've heard some slab homes

[43:54] have sort of a a safe space in case that they're 's you know a big storm that comes up

[44:00] um I did actually experience when I was growing up a slab house that had a

[44:07] Sellar that you could access through the garage and I'm just wondering what what kind of space can somebody go to when

[44:14] that tornado warning happens yeah I appreciate that question so when you walk in the front door to the right

[44:20] there's a door into the garage and then to your left there' be the staircase that goes up underneath that staircase

[44:27] there's an area right there as well as like the mechanical room so as far as like tornado or extreme weather out of

[44:34] the that space I feel like that would be the best location underneath that staircase um next to the utility

[44:41] room thank you yes thank you uh member EGU thank you and thank you for a great

[44:47] presentation I also love the video that was was great um so when I'm looking at

[44:52] this obviously it's it's just showing the unit you mentioned a garage and you just re iterated a garage here um can

[44:59] you just give me maybe a little bit more insight into what the makeup is visually

[45:05] of that cuz I'm trying to imagine like driving in um seeing kind of garage

[45:11] after garage and then there's also this parking area slab um so just walk me

[45:16] through a little bit more of um the vehicular experience of the site for

[45:22] sure so facing the let's say unit four and unit three let's say you're facing

[45:27] that so the garage is on the main level I'm going to call it the main level uh for both we all four units to the left

[45:34] is your entrance you need to walk up the stairs to get to I'm going to call it the second floor then that's your

[45:40] kitchen that's your gray room there's a powder room right there with a toilet vanity um Pantry on that main level so

[45:47] as far as the parking it's on on the first level I should say on as far as the parking it's on that main level um

[45:53] underneath the kitchen great room and the powder B bathroom so it takes up the

[45:59] bulk of that space correct yes okay that's helpful in that garage is the utility room and along with the space

[46:04] that I Hadad mentioned as far as um potential um seeking safe place if needed okay and then is there also a

[46:12] driveway element here or or not like I'm thinking of a driveway in the sense of

[46:19] parked cars in front of a garage or does it kind of taper off pretty quickly and

[46:24] there's not that space for it so you would have two spots right there in front of the

[46:29] garage okay so they have two spots within the garage and then

[46:35] two guest spots or however you want to think of it in front of their garage um then speak to me about the idea of

[46:42] having than that additional parking and vehicular slab

[46:47] and kind of like where my mind always goes is um you know I do there is quite

[46:52] a bit of yard especially with units one and two in the backyard area but wanting to really focus on where are the kids

[46:59] going to play how can we reduce the impervious surface I think I said that the correct way um so yeah talk to me

[47:07] about the the thought process there please yeah so a little bit about the thought process it's really just having the opportunity for guest parking as far

[47:13] as like the street parking is limited being that's that busy road so really just keeping guests in mind and then

[47:20] people that may have more vehicles um you know being that it's going to be a um common interest Community we would

[47:26] put something in in the Declaration um giv rules and guidelines as far as you

[47:32] know who has what space just so that you know unit tools not filling up all four

[47:37] spaces all the time um but that's kind of our thought process just more parking for guests as well as not really having

[47:43] options for street parking okay that's helpful thank you um

[47:51] what does it feel like then and all of this would obviously come out in like a actual proposal um from like a visual

[47:59] standpoint um but on Vernon unit 4 does

[48:04] that feel like it's the front of that home or what does it look like from the street view yeah so that's the side of

[48:10] the house okay so yeah so the staircase is on your facing it be on the left side

[48:15] and then there'd be a few windows on that side okay cuz I always think about

[48:20] like what's the experience with those homes on the street view as well um and

[48:27] I I live in a house that there's only one way and you have your driveway and so the bulk of your house is the front

[48:33] of your house is just the garage right um I've dreamed of a corner unit where you can have like the front of the house

[48:40] be welcoming and then like the vehicular component is on the side or on the back

[48:45] and so I think that this could be an opportunity here to kind of at least with unit four move in some way the

[48:54] front of the house to be on Vernon um just when you think about kind

[49:00] of an inviting look and feel um and I understand that there's multiple other units and that might not be as easy but

[49:08] by having that garage kind of tuck in then to the side and have it still be kind of a statement front piece I think

[49:14] it could be really beautiful and inviting um I don't think I have any other

[49:21] questions at this point should I also be giving General other feedback I know I kind of embedded some feedback okay um

[49:29] overall I I do I like it I like incrementally increasing um I love having a a

[49:36] statement of support as well from our affordability um housing managers is

[49:42] really supportive of this as well it seems like um so the the feedback that I

[49:48] have is more of like how can we continue to make it jive with the

[49:53] neighborhood um and so when I see like four parking stalls in addition to I

[50:00] would at least in my kind of understanding of this neighborhood there's probably no other sites where

[50:05] you're going to have additional parking in that sense um so I just think of like okay what's what's the use case for that

[50:12] um thinking even into my own neighborhood like yes I do have street parking for when I have holiday parties

[50:18] or whatever um so I understand that balance um but I also want it to still feel like a home

[50:27] um and so I know that's kind of hard feedback to see sift through um I would

[50:32] like to get rid of it from a character and an appeal a visual

[50:38] appeal perspective as well as optimizing and focusing on the Green Space um but I

[50:44] also understand there are other constraints that you're working with and you probably know your target market more so that's kind of how what I'm

[50:50] weighing in my head right now I thank you for member Pierce uh thanks Mr mayor

[50:58] um so this this uh location is around

[51:04] the block from where I live so when I walk past there I've often looked at

[51:10] that house off in the distance thinking why it would be really neat if somebody

[51:16] would buy that and redevelop that for medium density um and so I I applaud you

[51:25] for the uh creativity and the use of the space

[51:32] um I I had a similar question in terms of when you're walking by there it's

[51:38] actually in a unique spot where the houses aren't

[51:45] traditional uh where they face the front Road like a typical neighborhood would be like there's one in the back there's

[51:53] another one that's kind of tucked away so it's a little unique in that way um and so I thought

[52:01] um it was very creative um actually to

[52:06] have some parking within the the lot uh for that reason um I totally get where

[52:13] member Anu was going um but I did like the way you you kind of thought through

[52:18] that um I like that its owner occupied I think it's a really well

[52:25] fought out it's really well thought out and planned the the way you um have have the design so far um I wouldn't increase

[52:33] it to five or six I would stick to four

[52:39] um and actually for the same reason that remember AGN Gabe I think you know five

[52:45] or six starts to not in my opinion kind of fit in with uh the neighborhood I

[52:51] think four Town Homes to me feels like it would would fit better

[52:57] um I do want to see more of the interior

[53:04] and then I got a question for you um and it may sound odd but how much money have

[53:10] you put into getting to this point yeah so um great question we like

[53:18] Jordan said we are committed um we bought the land I had a vision for it from the beginning before we closed on

[53:24] it and um you know so we've had engag with our draftsman our our our architect

[53:31] um civil engineer um they had to work together um as well as surveyor to do

[53:36] our to get the certificate of survey the topography all that um so we're at least

[53:41] a few thousand in okay and it would be more if I didn't have those relationships already if I was engaging

[53:47] with um people that I haven't worked for 9 plus years um we could have been 10 15,000 in just to yeah get to this point

[53:55] and so excluding the cost of the land I I could have said it that way that's what that's what that's where I was

[54:02] going because I I felt like what you presented and it's kind of the member

[54:08] risser's Point earlier it felt like to me what I think a sketch plan should be like you had

[54:17] three slides four slides one slide that really talked

[54:22] about the project and then you spoke to it to get feedback and then what I think you will need to

[54:29] do then is take that feedback and then go to the next step um and so it it feels like it's the right balance to me

[54:37] for um a sketch plan so that was why I asked that question um and then the last

[54:42] thing I'll add when we talked about affordable housing uh I'm going to say last year I

[54:49] was doing work with uh um Stephanie Hawkins and we talked about are there

[54:55] ways to to get other developers into udina to do smaller projects like this

[55:02] we talked about emerging developers um and um like that's what

[55:09] that's what this is to me bring being able to find a developer that can come in have some expertise smaller scale

[55:18] that can Now understand what we want as a community and then figure out how to

[55:23] make that happen um so I like this the

[55:29] last piece of feedback I give you you're going to get a lot of feedback um I think

[55:36] it's it it there is TP there's a danger and this this is also going to sound

[55:42] weird into listening to all of us for all the things that we want and then taking that as we have to

[55:52] go do this and that's not what we're looking for so if there are things that you're hearing we would

[55:58] encourage to dialogue right um just as you did for the the parking um so don't

[56:04] shy away from um giving the DI engaging in the dialogue and giving us uh um

[56:11] hearing our feedback and then asking questions to really understand uh what we're looking for but I I like it and I

[56:18] would encourage you to keep going to the next steps member rer this dialogue has

[56:24] caused member rer to think of something else she wanted to talk to you about um people do care a lot about trees

[56:31] especially oak trees mature ones and my understanding is there's three clusters of Oaks on this site um I haven't

[56:39] actually gone out to see it but um when you come back if you could have those

[56:45] trees and if there's a way even if you have to shift a little bit so that you can preserve some of those the other

[56:51] thing is just you know having pounded the pavement running for office going down Kellog in the summer you feel it

[56:59] when you're in front of all the new houses that don't have a mature tree and then you get to the older part and it

[57:06] just physically it felt so great and then there's also the value of if you

[57:12] can preserve some of those Oaks it lends an air of you know this kind of idea

[57:19] that the place has been there for a long time and I think that would add value and just the temperature differential

[57:25] during the summer if you can sit under a tree instead of not having a tree but I did and to member U's Point anything

[57:34] that you can do to reduce the amount of impervious surface would be fantastic and you know I don't know if

[57:41] some of that could be the surface material you use for the driveways and the parking areas or something like that

[57:47] I have no idea but um that could be a really good thing and then I did just do

[57:56] a drop down on Vernon Avenue with Google Maps and a lot of the houses that are along Vernon it's the side view not the

[58:03] front view and so I I kind of feel like I see where member U is coming from but

[58:10] I think that would be a really big ask to you know turn and put the front of

[58:15] that first house facing Vernon I think that would be kind of a a tall order so

[58:23] there's that and then just also to member Pierce's point the last um project that was mentioned

[58:29] many times at the Planning Commission um when it came back for final review it had tandem parking near the entrance

[58:38] between the dumpster and the entryway because of all of the suggestions that

[58:44] had been made okay you have to reject you can't I mean and and I

[58:52] really do think the four units work beautifully they fit really well we also

[58:58] have an Adu ordinance and I don't know with the amount of space that you have

[59:04] and I haven't looked at the regulations for that but you know potentially somebody who purchased one of these

[59:10] could also pop in an Adu um so I I think what you have here Works incredibly well

[59:18] and I just want to emphasize that thank you member rer could you get that site

[59:24] plan back up there again please I don't know what happened to it there you go thank you um yeah so you're going to

[59:32] hear us say some of the same things different ways and uh some may resonate

[59:37] and some may not uh but I thought a remember eggner idea was an interesting one on unit number

[59:43] four uh you know and at least have your architect look at it uh I get what she's talking about in terms of facing Vernon

[59:50] and I understand member rer Point as well but it wouldn't hurt to at least ask the architect if we if you're

[59:56] rotated that unit number four 90° uh that's still your common wall on

[1:00:01] the North side right and there's no there's no windows there's there that's a common wall so there there's nothing

[1:00:09] on that wall anyway so uh and that's a good wall to have nothing on facing north uh anyway take a look at that

[1:00:15] issue uh in terms of the member U's issue about the uh or not issue but the

[1:00:23] uh comment she raised about the guest parking those four stalls and making it

[1:00:29] feel like there's a residential uh transition that's that's real soft and

[1:00:34] gentle from a single family neighborhood to let's say four units and I think we're all in accordance that four fits

[1:00:41] nicely on the site me we you got guided very well by our planning department who

[1:00:46] helped you look at prd2 and land on prd2 and total compliance with prd2 that's a

[1:00:52] really good thing so um you could look at uh where those guest

[1:00:58] spots are I think a look at the prvious pavers where the grass grows up through

[1:01:03] the pavers so it feels a bit more like yard but it still accomplishes the same purpose of providing a place for people

[1:01:09] to park just a suggestion or idea you can look at um uh the trees was top of

[1:01:15] my list member rer went back to that in her second comments so I think you know to the extent that there are uh fully

[1:01:23] mature trees along that West lot line you should try to preserve as many of those as possible for the reason she

[1:01:29] expressed and if you haven't looked at our tree ordinance that will give you encouragement to preserve as many as you

[1:01:36] can I've seen it and some of it you know in terms of the building pads you're you're going to

[1:01:43] get some forbearance there you know on what's required uh and we see that some

[1:01:48] of these things are inevitable that you're going to to take some of those trees down but I'd say the extent that

[1:01:53] you even had to move things a little bit further east to accommodate trees on the west uh don't be afraid to think about

[1:01:59] that either and we're just giving you ideas to think about uh remember Pierce asked about the interiors and there's

[1:02:06] one one of your first slides I think had a beautiful photo of an interior and I

[1:02:11] don't know if that was kind of what you're striving for or right there if that's if that's a level of finish

[1:02:17] you're striving for it looks beautiful you know and uh I know the next go around that we'll see more detail around

[1:02:23] all of that uh uh and um but that's you know that what

[1:02:29] you chose there to show us is really quite striking quite beautiful

[1:02:35] um and then as mentioned unit count interior uh pricing range any

[1:02:41] expectation yet on what kind of range you'll be in price-wise per unit yeah so the as far as the range it

[1:02:48] is closer to and and you know a lot depends on construction but it is around

[1:02:53] that you know 750 to 950 okay range yeah we I mean we've we

[1:02:59] understand that I mean we had you know if you saw the ones further up Vernon behind Wells Fargo Bank we thought we

[1:03:05] were going to get the missing middle there and the missing middle for us we all had a different definition than the new missing middle but there in that you

[1:03:12] know that's they're may be a little bit more expensive than that but in that same range so we we kind of understand

[1:03:17] that we wish they were lower priced but uh we we get it you know land labor Lumber it's a it's a different world out

[1:03:25] there now so uh I think that me I think the level

[1:03:30] of finish that you put on them is is going to be important if you're at that price point so people are going to

[1:03:35] people are going to be expecting a high level of finish exterior and interior and and I take it it's a um double

[1:03:42] garage correct okay not not tandem but just side by side corre D conventional

[1:03:48] double garage okay uh that's about all I had um so I

[1:03:55] think think you probably between the Planning Commission and the city council you've you've gotten enough food for thought and U you guys L to make the

[1:04:03] decision sounds like you B the land so you're going forward you got it yeah okay well we'll

[1:04:10] wait to see on the next goore round all right thank you gentlemen thank

[1:04:19] Youk all right we're going to um thank you handled member egg news matter uh

[1:04:25] the beginning of the meeting I don't think there's been any new correspondence that's come in during

[1:04:31] the course of the meeting I'm going to turn now to manager comments uh thank you your honor I

[1:04:38] wanted to give the council an update on a couple of things uh first our tactical

[1:04:44] Training Center project out at the South Metro Public Safety Training Facility uh during the uh early stages of that

[1:04:51] project that all early stage projects involved digging a hole in the ground um

[1:04:57] we encountered some obstacles that they weren't expecting in in that process so that project has kind stalled for the

[1:05:04] moment um they are going to resume the the uh grading and the construction of

[1:05:10] the project and do still believe they can make a a summer a June July um 2025

[1:05:17] deadline for the construction of the of the site when we do have a site ready for for occupancy uh we'll do some kind

[1:05:24] of an event and council members out there so you can see what it is uh State Legislative activities even

[1:05:31] though the the house is not uh seated uh we are still we are still having

[1:05:38] meetings with uh members of the house and members of the Senate with regards to our uh legislative platform uh we've

[1:05:46] already had a discussion with uh house leaders on the bonding Bill side talked a lot about our we had a discussion to

[1:05:53] talk about our Bridge Project and the pool uh Aquatic Center project we spent

[1:05:59] the entire time talking about the The Bridge Project and mindat did not get to

[1:06:04] talk uh about our pool project so we will uh be talking to Senate uh leaders

[1:06:10] about those projects and about the extensions that we're requesting for um

[1:06:15] two Tiff districts sometime next week and have the first discussions around

[1:06:21] that uh also wanted to give you an update on where we are with regards to kind of uh monitoring our federal funds

[1:06:28] um we as a our city government does not receive much in the way of federal funds

[1:06:34] if you look at our our total spend for proposed uh 2025 or approved 2025 it was

[1:06:41] right around $211 million that that's all the dollars we spend on people

[1:06:46] Commodities Professional Services Street conu uh construction projects of all

[1:06:52] kinds Etc of that total uh about 595,000 of it comes from uh Federal sources

[1:06:59] that's just that's about a quarter of 1% so it's not very much um of that total

[1:07:06] 595,000 425,000 of it is in the general fund and

[1:07:12] and about 170,000 is is um cdbg Community Development block grant so

[1:07:17] again uh small percentages we are monitoring it's not insignificant money

[1:07:23] uh we have somewhere around 2 million ion dollar um in Grants in addition to

[1:07:28] those operating funds that we're looking at here um some of our funding that is

[1:07:33] uh money that's obligated but no contract available to sign so that's money at risk is a US doe Energy

[1:07:40] Efficiency and conservation block grant $119,000 but we have a number of other

[1:07:45] uh grants that are that are uh that have been funded and have been and we have signed contracts for we expect those con

[1:07:53] those contracts to be fulfilled and we're also looking we're also working with League of Minnesota cities

[1:08:00] and also the US Conference of Mayors they both have set up uh resources for cities and and elected officials alike

[1:08:07] City staff and elected officials if you'd like to go on and see this kind of information they've on both their

[1:08:12] websites they're pretty easy to find and I uh Jen can we turn on

[1:08:18] the so part of what I I wanted to do I I think I said this at our last uh council

[1:08:23] meeting is sometimes uh when you're considering a policy change it's good to have something to

[1:08:29] look at and and pick apart um I I've drafted a proposed uh change to

[1:08:36] community comment based on some of the comments that I've heard from Council Members previous to tonight again this

[1:08:43] is this is something that will look a lot like what we already do work sessions would start at 5:30 and would

[1:08:50] be completed at 6:30 that we'd take you know a few minutes to come down and get settled and get in front of get on the

[1:08:57] dis uh Start Community comments at 6:40 and no later than 7 because council

[1:09:02] meeting would start at 7 Community comment would be conducted in the city council chambers and per the same kind

[1:09:09] of rules of procedure that already apply about what's what's eligible to be commented on what's not eligible uh

[1:09:16] there's no back room or closed door any more than there there is today um all

[1:09:23] current rules still apply community comment isn't televised or recorded in this in this scenario and I would give

[1:09:30] you a recap on the previous meetings Community comment just like we use today

[1:09:35] so uh there's there's a thousand ways to do this this is one way to do it if it's

[1:09:40] if you want further discussion on this as a group this is your first time you're seeing this uh I wanted to share

[1:09:45] it with you in this format if there's a if there's interest in pursuing it we can pursue it at another

[1:09:51] meeting I think uh in furnace to council member Jackson who had to be uh in De

[1:09:58] Moine for a family medical situation I'd like to have her input on sure this and so I think giving us kind of a sneak

[1:10:05] preview of what your thoughts are uh based on the input that you've gotten both from the council and from for some

[1:10:11] council members and and uh and the public um I think we should take this up

[1:10:17] another time when she's present so that we can have her uh input as well I had no expectation of action tonight I just

[1:10:24] wanted to give you as you said a a preview of it so that you could be ready to have some discussion about it and

[1:10:29] maybe have some questions about how it could work even if we decided we wanted to stay Just The Way We Were I think

[1:10:35] still we need council member Jackson here okay yeah member U thank you um and

[1:10:42] maybe even prior to that or if we build it into a broader conversation I think

[1:10:48] in addition to the slide that you had on there having something that and it can

[1:10:54] be a part of our convers ation focuses in on the goals like what are we hoping

[1:10:59] to achieve by doing this I think would be a really good way to root the conversation um so whether you we

[1:11:06] collect that ahead of time and have a a visual to denote that or whether it becomes the focus as we initiate that

[1:11:14] conversation when we have it I think that will be important to carry

[1:11:19] through thank you uh member rer this is a topic and I have received a lot of

[1:11:26] email about it and I know residents are concerned a lot of I think pretty much

[1:11:32] everyone who has written to me has said that they want to keep it the same format and what's frustrating is I heard

[1:11:39] a lot of people say I'm looking at the agenda I don't see it I heard at the last meeting that we were going to talk

[1:11:45] about Community comment at the February 4th meeting that it was announced and I don't see it on the agenda there's

[1:11:51] nothing there and do you know what happened and I could couldn't respond cuz I didn't know what happened and now

[1:11:59] I see on my screen um item 9.1 is community comment

[1:12:05] proposal that's not on my agenda that I have before me it's not something that the public was able to see and so I I

[1:12:13] think on this one we have to do better when it comes to transparency and you know we can talk

[1:12:18] about waiting until member Jackson is here and I do think that's important um

[1:12:24] but it's also important to let the public know when we're going to talk about it so if we're going to talk about

[1:12:29] it at a future meeting I think what we're going to talk about needs to be on

[1:12:35] the agenda I think item 9.1 needs to be added to the packet that is available

[1:12:40] online and the slide that we just saw needs to be added to that as well so the public can see that um I think that's

[1:12:48] really important thank you maner Neil I think this has been entirely transparent um

[1:12:55] I've sh I'm sharing it with you in this format is an act of transparency if you choose not to advance it that's that's

[1:13:03] okay um but I just wanted to give you something uh to start with and nine the

[1:13:09] nine items are just the items that are under my comment and sometimes I'm developing that list um right up until

[1:13:16] the council meeting the day of the council meeting so that's where that comes from yeah okay I think Aon in a

[1:13:24] situation that I is the fact that it wasn't on the agenda allowed the person that called in to talk about it which

[1:13:30] was would otherwise been inappropriate so uh nonetheless a point taken member

[1:13:36] Risser and um I think when we do get to the point where we want to have a a broader conversation about it uh we can

[1:13:43] you know it'll be I'm sure if you've got some slides put together they'll be part of the part of the agenda

[1:13:51] deck um any other comments you wanted to cover manager NE Neil that's all okay uh

[1:13:56] going to go down to member U who I've ignored for starting for a couple weeks or a couple meetings I think I feel like

[1:14:03] I'm always first but oh well no I maybe it's just personal bias um I

[1:14:12] so I didn't put together like a a ton of thoughts on this necessarily

[1:14:18] but there have been a lot of things happening at the national level

[1:14:25] um within our community and I know that we're starting to think about an experience ways that it's impacting us

[1:14:32] locally as well um you know personally um my daughters three and five go to

[1:14:40] Spanish Immersion daycare here in Indina um we absolutely love it it's been an amazing experience for them but we got

[1:14:47] an email this week that talked about the impact of changes to immigration um and what that might mean

[1:14:56] for Staffing levels and being able to provide the same level of um care and so

[1:15:03] I think that that caused me to have a conversation with Scott Neil and just think about um what are some of the

[1:15:09] other ways that we're starting starting to feel this within our

[1:15:14] community um and I guess I even have a question I don't know putting you on the spot of what what does some what do some

[1:15:23] of these changes mean and I'm kind of looking over um at Chief Milburn here um cuz I don't know if you can even reflect

[1:15:29] on if there's any impacts to our police department and the ways that we're doing policing within the community um but

[1:15:36] before I hand it over like that's just something that is top of mine for me um and I like I said I didn't have a ton

[1:15:42] more to say about it but I I think we are starting to feel some local impacts if you hold that thought I was going to

[1:15:49] bring up the Polar Plunge that you're participating in which is ice of one type and then we can go to member 's ice

[1:15:55] uh discussion as well so hold that thought till we get a little deeper here remember

[1:16:02] Pierce nothing from me tonight okay thank you um so well let me talk about the Polar

[1:16:09] Plunge I did a mayor's minute on it tonight and that is uh at Lake Nomas on

[1:16:14] February 28th it is a fundraiser for Special Olympics Minnesota and our

[1:16:21] police department has a team um and we're trying to raise or they're going to try to raise $22,000 that's their

[1:16:28] goal and there's a website that you can go to to donate to the cause and that is

[1:16:35] reg r. plungemn.org

[1:16:40] team SL Edina Police Department oh no one will ever forget

[1:16:46] that URL so just but just in case I read it again rig. plungemn.org teamed

[1:16:55] police department and those participating in the February 28th event for the city of Vian police department

[1:17:00] at Lake Nomas will be the chief uh lieutenants Jake Hecker and Ryan Schultz Community engagement

[1:17:07] Officer Nick Donahue officers Evan Miller and Nick Nas Cadet Mar Kaya Riley

[1:17:13] and Reserve officer Steve kanig so uh council members too keep in mind if you

[1:17:19] want to help support uh our team and uh competing against other police departments and special

[1:17:25] Minnesota uh you know think about uh getting on that website and making a contribution or maybe you can do it

[1:17:31] right through the PD special you have to go on the website mayor yep we will for sure have a link

[1:17:40] the video this this is important to follow the process here y yeah well I was thinking it would the check could be written to Special Olympics Minnesota

[1:17:46] not to the adop PD but nonetheless okay we'll follow the process

[1:17:52] um and then um the to the federal issues that member U

[1:17:58] alluded to generally I I sent to uh I don't know if she's got these out to you or not I got a document from the US

[1:18:04] Conference of Mayors and if you if you click on the various categories of immigration energy and environment

[1:18:10] Transportation Health Technology Innovation you'll see what the potential impact is on cities in some of those

[1:18:17] areas uh and then with respect to uh immigration um I

[1:18:22] think did everybody get an email from some reporter looking to talk to somebody about how we would act compared

[1:18:28] to the City of Minneapolis and I thought well that's a good topic as you sort of instinctually thought member U let's ask

[1:18:35] the chief about what our position has been from RPD uh first of all thanks for doing the

[1:18:42] polar plunge and then we'll move on to the ice in a different way sure yeah thank you mayor yeah it's it's cold I

[1:18:49] did this last year and so uh I'll do it again this year it's fun for it's for a good cause I'm looking forward to that

[1:18:55] uh as it relates to immigration uh I've been through this before about eight years ago and so everyone knows I used to work in Brooklyn Park and back there

[1:19:01] we got a lot of questions about same similar topics that we're going on um

[1:19:06] that experience prompted me here internally about a month ago to start working on a policy that we have just to

[1:19:12] kind of reinforce a practice that's been in play now for a number of years and that practice is ice people need to look

[1:19:18] at ice it's different than local authorities and so they operate in a different space than we do so in other words we get a lot of questions about

[1:19:24] during traffic stops do we ask about immigration status we do not that's not the focus of our work we look we look at

[1:19:30] local and focus on local issues enforcing State Statute ordinances and things like that and that's a different

[1:19:36] threshold than what ice operates under uh we get questions about sweeps if there are sweeps going on do we

[1:19:41] participate in in that and we do not ice uh has a civil process with detainers

[1:19:47] and holds and there was some work that was done with the H County Jail several years ago and they spelled out that they do not participate in that either so as

[1:19:54] ice goes in the federal um thresholds and the things that they look at they have information on the back end right

[1:20:00] so if somebody's booked and processed they have access to that data understand that somebody was booked or arrested for

[1:20:06] any particular crime and they can do their followup accordingly but they don't ask us and we don't participate in that so there's just these differences

[1:20:12] that are in practice the policy that we put together really just spells that out so it's really clear for Community it's also clear for our staff on what what

[1:20:19] those guard rails are we ran that through our Mac Group which is our Multicultural advisory committee and we showed that to them about 3 weeks ago

[1:20:25] and they were really appreciative of it and gave us good feedback out this this meets what our expectations would be for the local authorties as well so we're

[1:20:32] just uh on the very back end of that policy um completing that and we'll post it to our website all of our policies

[1:20:38] are on our website and we'll publish that so everyone can see exactly what our roles and responsibilities are in

[1:20:43] this matter the only difference is if we're working and looking at a local crime so if we have a local assault for

[1:20:49] example and there's some kind of an immigration tie to that that ice might be looking at as well there could be a

[1:20:55] connection that way but we have to operate under uh a warrant that might be issued for anybody or an active local

[1:21:00] criminal investigation those are the only connections that we would have a focus on or any kind of interactiveness with this topic uh moving forward so

[1:21:08] I'll stand for any questions on that though y questions for the chief or follow on for information no oh yeah

[1:21:15] thanks for that could I add one thing too a lot of communities are going through this and so we at the henip county Chiefs level put together a

[1:21:21] statement and that was released about 2 3 days ago uh to all local media just to kind of explain her position and and all

[1:21:27] the police departments in hen County U that I've talked to and know are all operating under the same threshold as

[1:21:34] well good thanks for that I only had one other item and it was I've had a personal experience on this and then uh

[1:21:40] people calling me on the bag fee and I was in Walgreens and the guy

[1:21:46] said well that'll be a dime I said well I thought it was a nickel uh and he said well we we rais it to a dime and then

[1:21:52] today I got a call from a resident who said uh he was at some grocery store and they said uh it was going to be a dime

[1:21:59] or 15 cents and so I asked manager Neil and U about this issue I thought that we had

[1:22:06] set the fee uh on what it was going to be at a nickel uh but apparently the ordinance

[1:22:13] is crafted in a way uh Mr Kendall will no this as well that they could they can

[1:22:19] charge more for the bag if they want so it kind of beg the question for

[1:22:26] me of uh did we did we head in a good direction I know I was the only one that

[1:22:31] didn't like the idea of it initially but uh with the merchants now raising

[1:22:38] the fee for bags we're the ones that are being looked at as being responsible for

[1:22:44] whether it's 10 cents 5 cents 10 cents 15 cents whatever the price of the bag is they think that we're the ones that

[1:22:50] caused that and maybe we maybe we were with the or but um just a little food

[1:22:57] for thought and uh I'd like to look at look at it in a little bit more depth I don't know quite how to go about it if

[1:23:03] we should have the energy environment commission look at it again or what would be the appropriate

[1:23:08] mechanism if the council wanted us to look at it again I think that's probably the threshold question not not just me

[1:23:14] it would be yeah we would want some kind of council Direction decided on a majority basis whether or not they

[1:23:20] wanted to revisit the bag fee issue you know we could we could certainly do

[1:23:26] some some analysis after defined length of time maybe it's a year maybe it's something else to give you a sense of

[1:23:33] what what's been the impact of this but um our ordinance just set a floor you

[1:23:40] know a five cents and if people want to if merchants or retailers want to charge more than them that's it's just like any

[1:23:46] other product in their store they set the price of it and one of the eries of it is I had a

[1:23:53] young woman s me I was over at Jerry's and I was in line and she came up and she had a plastic bag full of asparagus

[1:24:00] and she said this isn't costing me a nickel but the bag they put it into is going to cost me a nickel you know and

[1:24:08] the meat I just bought in the plastic container that doesn't cost me a nickel you know so there's this

[1:24:14] um I don't know if you'd call it inconsistency but uh it's it's a mixed

[1:24:20] message you know I think but um so anyway when member Jackson gets back

[1:24:26] here maybe we can talk about the issue a little bit more and decide in one of these little more formal conversations

[1:24:33] at the end of the meeting if we want to send it back to uh hrrc to look at it a little bit more in

[1:24:40] depth I do think and I actually remember member Pierce really pushing on this of

[1:24:48] coming back with the data and I know that that was a large part of the discussion that we had of being able to

[1:24:53] see is this having the impact that we want it to um working with retailers to

[1:24:59] understand kind of pre and post numbers of bags being used and are we decreasing

[1:25:04] that number um and if I recall we did expect a year of data and I think it

[1:25:10] took effect in July so my recommendation would be we still talk about it this

[1:25:16] year but we wait for that year mark to hit and get the data compile the data um

[1:25:23] and then bring it up maybe later in the summer early in the fall for

[1:25:30] discussion so we're at a year and a half so Marissa is trying to collect data right now she's collecting and

[1:25:37] requesting the information right now that's correct but the it went into place in July so we are we've sent out

[1:25:45] letters to all of the businesses and we've issued press releases and other Communications with the requirement that

[1:25:52] they report by the end of March for their experience from July through the end of

[1:25:58] 2024 m is about seven months on the topic of plastic bags my thing is that I

[1:26:05] have taken the plastic free challenge and on Sunday I did go to the Grand View library and we had a really amazing

[1:26:13] presentation from Gabriella Roso who is the green core person for Ein and she

[1:26:18] did just a fabulous job and so I did for the first time bring my own

[1:26:25] durable plastic containers to the co-op to get refills on oatmeal and all that

[1:26:30] and it wasn't that hard but I had never done it before so anyway there are things you can do to re reduce the

[1:26:37] amount of plastic bags um that you're using or just try to step away from

[1:26:42] plastic and I am really trying to be dedicated about capturing the plastic

[1:26:47] that flows through my life including the little plastic ball that was in my non-alcoholic Guinness can

[1:26:55] which is really weird but it's there so it's there everywhere and that is all I

[1:27:01] have right I thought you that's a good suggestion remember let's wait get the data after a year and take a look at it

[1:27:08] yeah especially with it being right around the corner yeah mayor just one more comment on

[1:27:15] that I think the city can be clear that the ordinance requires the 5cent charge

[1:27:20] it doesn't require anything more than that if if Merchants want to charge more than that they're free to do that I

[1:27:26] don't think the city could probably stop them from doing that but the ordinance only requires the 5cent

[1:27:35] charge appear that at least one argument would be that we gave him a pretty good

[1:27:42] idea um but M A has raised a great point and that is let's see what the impact has

[1:27:49] been and and then we can look at absolutely we can we by we'll have more feedback from I think our residents too

[1:27:56] about the experiences they're having on increased bag fees so okay that's all I had manager Neil I

[1:28:05] had one more one I'm sorry one final thing that I had on my uh list here but didn't get to that is uh last week uh we

[1:28:13] were able to honor our own Chad Milner who was selected as city engineer of the

[1:28:18] Year from Minnesota City Engineers Association all right

[1:28:27] just for this one year though that's all and then somebody else gets it after that well maybe he'll get it again but

[1:28:32] he got it at least this year we're very proud of it in the world of being honored it then has caused me to remember that while I was out of town

[1:28:38] last Friday they had the funeral for Willard aola and I'm sure that was quite a great celebratory event so our our

[1:28:46] best thoughts to his family and all of his friends that cared so deeply about him all those students that he had all

[1:28:53] those lives he influenced is just uh was he was an incredible human being so um

[1:29:00] that's it for the evening of February 4th 2025 is there a motion to adjourn so

[1:29:05] move I second pece moves member U seconds a motion to adjourn the city council meeting for the city of udina

[1:29:11] this Tuesday February 4th 2025 at 838

[1:29:17] p.m. all right any further discussion those in favor of adjournment say I I I oppos carried City Council