[0:00] uh well good evening everybody it is Tuesday June 3rd 2025 and can anybody

[0:06] see the time oh move 5:32 it's moved i can read it now uh we're calling order

[0:13] the uh city council work session for this particular date we got a couple of matters we're going to cover tonight

[0:18] with the heritage preservation commission and the planning commission manager Neil was there anything you wanted to add before I think before I'm

[0:25] going to I'm going to do a kickoff but we thought it might be a good idea to do the kind of around the room i think we should so how about I do roll call first

[0:33] okay let's do that uh call a meeting order and ask our clerk Sharon Ellison to call the role yeah council member

[0:39] Agne here council member Jackson here council member Pierce here council member Risser here mayor Hwood

[0:47] here try to put Brian in here

[0:54] if we can find another chair here up at the table we're so we're going to do a swap so essentially what is happening

[0:59] today is heritage preservation commissioners first have their conversation then when they leave then the rest of the planning commissioners

[1:05] will come join us all right very good let's start with introductions around the table so okay so Johnson city

[1:12] management fellow katie Pope Heritage Preservation Commission tommy Ederson

[1:18] Heritage Preservation Commission Chair chris Wagner Heritage Preservation Commission julie Wrestler city council

[1:25] carolyn Jackson city council hi Jim Hufflin council James Pierce council kagu council scott Neil city manager

[1:33] teresa Fra Heritage jimmy Bennett planning commission and Jay Layman uh

[1:40] community engagement manager karen Allison city clerk we have another commission ryan Day planning commission

[1:50] commissioner Karen Miller

[1:56] City Darman Heritage Commission

[2:03] we're gonna get you a chair up here Sean i knew you were trying to figure out how

[2:08] to get her [Music] seated planning commission katie I'm

[2:17] Katie i'm in it i'm Emily the leazison for the Heritage Preservation Commission

[2:23] okay good now I'll go back to manager Neil okay um we're we're uh getting

[2:28] ready tonight to kick off a new way or a new system new protocol of how uh the

[2:34] city council will relate and and do work planning with our boards and commissions we have a long history of boards and

[2:40] commissions uh here in Adina some of our some of our council members of course have come really right out of our boards

[2:47] and commissions that's pretty typical in this town uh to have a long history like that uh we look at boards and

[2:53] commissions as as being really important contributors to uh to our our doing of

[2:59] the work uh of the city uh they bring a resident perspective that that many

[3:04] times staff don't have um so we think that's important the council uh advises

[3:09] uh staff and you provide direction to boards and commissions and uh we think their advice is important to you as well

[3:17] uh in our previous work plans we we were really centered around a one-year time

[3:22] frame um and and everything was very compressed um so what we're trying to to

[3:27] move toward is a is a two-year planning cycle for boards and commissions and

[3:33] these meetings will run a little bit differently in in that sense because of because we're trying to uh realign uh or

[3:40] sync up I guess our our process on the staff side for for work uh and workload

[3:46] kind of calculations and analysis with our new boards and commission um uh system as well so with that I'll turn it

[3:54] over to MJ and she can tell you kind of a little bit about how we're going to walk through this tonight perfect okay

[3:59] so a little bit of background um the last time we had a conversation about this was in November of 2024 when we

[4:05] actually approved the work plans um the significant changes like Scott mentioned 2-year um work plans basically what

[4:12] we're doing is dividing the commissions into two groups essentially four and four um we obviously have the component

[4:18] of the HRC um and then adjust the purpose of this meeting tonight so in

[4:23] previous years sometime between March and August you would still have a joint meeting with a commission and at that

[4:30] meeting the purpose was to talk about the progress report right they had their work plan they filled out all their

[4:35] updates they talked to you about all the awesome things they've been working on um and then they came in front of you

[4:41] after that they developed their work plan kind of alone independently so what we're doing is adjusting that in the

[4:47] summer months now they're here before they've even put pen to paper to talk about that two-year work plan to get

[4:53] some direction and guidance from city council after that the process looks the same the difference is again uh annually

[5:00] you'll see half of the commissions actually do going through this process the expectations for tonight um is the

[5:08] commission to share any areas of interest or things that they feel like they should be focusing on asking

[5:13] questions from council and seeking that guidance um hopefully taking some notes as well uh we do have Zoe who's going to

[5:20] actually help take some more detailed notes so that we can share back um the interpretation of the conversation today

[5:25] with the commissions city council for you tonight um listen to the areas of interest offer direction think about um

[5:32] guidance for priorities you've already talked about your budget work plan things that you think are important for

[5:38] the upcoming years we've talked had some budget conversations so the goal to make sure that the work that we're giving our

[5:44] commissions also aligns with those priorities you set to do um and ask any questions that you might have tonight

[5:50] there are some staff in this room um our liaison for the heritage preservation commission planning commission are here

[5:55] if there are any clarifying questions tonight for these two commissions we think that it was a good opportunity to

[6:02] start with them because they really do have um scope of work really defined um

[6:07] statutoily uh heritage preservation commission of course is um in charge of the certificates of appropriateness and

[6:13] the heritage landmarks um planning commission land use applications comp plan zoning code so these are a bulk of

[6:19] their work and things that they're expected to do um every year okay for tonight um I have a couple

[6:27] considerations and then some reminders for you as well um as part of the human rights and engagement task force we

[6:34] actually did an experience survey a board and commission experience survey you'll hear a little bit more about that as they kind of um bring back some

[6:40] recommendations to city council but it seemed um an opportunity to at least share a couple of the things that we

[6:46] gleaned these are not um prioritized in any way they're just things that might be useful as we're thinking about work

[6:53] plans um the things that we heard um were leveraging commission uh perspective um so talking about that

[7:00] lived experience and the community insights that commissioners bring to inform those decisions um they asked

[7:06] they talked about manageable workloads um just structuring the work so commissioners can participate in

[7:11] meaningful work um there was some mention of shorter meetings so it seems

[7:16] like an opportune time to talk about that as in these are things they want yes like this is the feedback that they

[7:21] provided to us could we get our meeting shorter type of thing um limit exploratory or research projects um

[7:28] specifically the ones that were around um limited council interest or community interest so topics that maybe we're

[7:35] really really not sure of maybe those aren't areas that commissions want to put their focus in for that time um they

[7:42] definitely were asking for that clarity direction so we're excited to be here tonight um in front of council to get

[7:47] some of that and then to really align the goals of the commission the work that they're doing with the city goals

[7:52] and budget values and I was like great we are doing that so um some reminders for you tonight um so more is not always

[8:01] better um definitely prioritizing uh quality over quantity we do actually

[8:06] have or have told the commissions that we're looking for like four to five initiatives um but that includes their

[8:12] current work so again these two commissions do have some um scope of work that they are charged with um

[8:18] initial ideas may evolve the first thought may not be the best thought it might be something we need to refine

[8:23] before we actually actually finalize it um not all the input becomes work so the

[8:29] commissioners are going to hear things from you but that doesn't necessarily mean that automatically those are work

[8:34] plan items um as well council would need time to review them and prioritize them which you're going to have in that fall

[8:41] months where we actually come back and talk about them um council is processing this in real time um so when Carolyn

[8:48] says an idea that doesn't necessarily mean that James immediately agrees so they're kind of also like hearing from

[8:54] each other at the same time that you're hearing these ideas from council members um and then staff will support with the

[9:00] summaries we wanted the the ability to share the information with the bodies of the commissions and not just put all the

[9:07] responsibility on one person so we're going to take some detailed notes tonight okay so framing up this two-year

[9:14] work plan um there we told them up to four to five key initiatives thinking

[9:19] about a phase approach do you remember your council charges that we have that um review and comment right as a council

[9:25] charge one where um commissions are being reactive looking at different things that might be we might be working

[9:31] on um and then that study and research was sometimes that discovery versus actually bring you some core

[9:36] recommendations um and then making sure that they align with the city's strategic priorities and budget values

[9:42] so I leave you with this last prompt but essentially how this is going to go is that uh chair uh Tommy Iverson um is

[9:50] going to actually provide some information to you guys but this is really a conversation the commissioners are here to are here to actually hear

[9:56] from you so with that said I'm going to turn it over to you i'm not really prepared

[10:03] to present i'm going to be fully honest i didn't know if I could make the meeting tonight so I was expecting to

[10:09] kind of just be a little bit of a back and forth yep yep totally so it's what we're looking for tonight is from city

[10:15] council is what do you want the heritage preservation commission to focus on so they I mean we can talk about all the

[10:21] past things that they have focused on the past i've shared some of the um charges that's outlined in city code as

[10:27] well and what their main function has been from year to year so I mean I guess I mean we have our you know our main you

[10:35] know six bullet points here so we have our COAs um we have the Adina Heritage Landmarks we've got the Heritage

[10:42] Preservation Award Century Home Program plan of treatment changes that are upcoming um and then it sounds like

[10:49] there are some comprehensive plan updates u that'll affect be tied into

[10:54] the city code article 3 division 5 so I mean beyond that I guess my question for

[10:59] city council I mean do we need do we need anything beyond this because this seems like enough for us to handle the

[11:06] COAs kind of come and go some months we have three or four some months we have one some we have zero um but like

[11:13] outside of this this scope I mean is there additional work we need to be

[11:19] searching for or you are advisory to council so that's a question for council

[11:24] i I would actually turn it back the other way you've got three different awards that you hand out correct is that

[11:33] um are they complimentary to each other or is that a lot of work and what's the workload like of having to go out and

[11:39] get nominations and and everything for I think that like the issue with the heritage preservation board is I think

[11:45] it's a really meaningful award but it's hard we don't usually get a lot of nominations from the public at large and

[11:52] um I know we've kicked around different ideas in the past few years since I've been on the board or the on the commission for

[11:58] um trying to get that community outreach um we we got a surprise submission kind

[12:03] of at the last second this year which turned out to be great and it won the award but usually they're those those submissions are coming internally um

[12:10] from what I've seen historically so that kind of leaves it up to the commission to try to find something whereas I I

[12:16] think the one that came up organically this year was was really great because of how it came up and nobody even knew

[12:22] about the property mhm um so I trying to find different ways to um garner in

[12:30] interest from the public um so they can actually participate in that award and

[12:36] then I don't you want to talk more about the the century home award um yeah I think this year we've been talking about

[12:42] like an incorporation of yard signs and we've been talking with communications

[12:48] team about getting that kind of kicked off um and getting more outreach to that

[12:55] program so that it gets more traffic um and then with Yeah I think also with

[13:03] the public outreach for the ordinance and treatment changes I think it's just

[13:10] you know how are we we're working more on how to get that message out and more

[13:17] um more reaction to it i think there's a lot of century homes that are coming up

[13:23] um on that 100year and we want to start advertising that with yard signs and

[13:29] getting it more um more wellnown and so it it spreads

[13:36] quicker so and we're kind of targeting some different audiences here too so as far as the Century Homes program goes I

[13:42] mean we're really looking at current homeowners and and allowing them to trying to try to participate and have

[13:48] fun with it whereas I think something like the um you know the the plan the comprehensive plan updates and the code

[13:55] updates that might be over the head of some people um and so is it something where we need to more target some

[14:02] um business professionals whether it's whether it's general contractors or it's real estate agents to to help advise

[14:09] their clients um and explain or architects uh for that matter to help you know advise their clients of these

[14:16] changes um say you know if we say we you know there's some kind of a newsletter

[14:21] update or an email blast I don't think most people are going to take the time to read through the code or necessarily be able to understand that so how does

[14:28] that get distilled um and then disseminated to um people that would be

[14:34] potentially affected would be a question for us and we could work on figuring out

[14:40] how to do that right so this is a question for you manager Neil um that sounds like a lot of

[14:47] communications work um and did I count you have six things

[14:53] on your list because you've got the three the two awards or three awards

[14:59] plus awards and awards the COA and uh and you've got the update but then with

[15:05] the comprehensive plan I know we did that when I was on the energy environment commission ended up taking a lot of time seems like a lot of time but

[15:12] also seems like a lot of need to publicize things and so is that

[15:19] um looking at the communication staff time is that reasonable or is that a heavy lift um it's this is an important

[15:27] question because this is where the the workload of a board and commission directed by the council has an impact on

[15:33] staff right so when we have a better sense of of this the workload that was

[15:38] just described here is pretty consistent I think from year to year so that I'm not too worried about that but this is a

[15:45] good environment to kind of surface some of these uh items and see what kind of demand they might create or at least we

[15:51] know about them and get them out to the kind of the support departments of the city so I mean I

[15:58] guess if if it feels like a reasonable workload that you're working on now

[16:04] that's a good thing but but please speak up if you feel like you guys are really putting in more hours than I I think

[16:09] we're in a good place now the the planet of treatment updates I think were were very time intensive and there were a few

[16:14] members um that that were very generous of their time and in getting that

[16:20] through um so I think for now it's just it is more outreach and communication

[16:26] and I don't know how much of that falls on our shoulders versus the communications department but we could

[16:31] certainly tag team that we just we don't have the necessarily

[16:37] the tools or the access that they do so Right right we're a little more grassroots with how we we do things

[16:44] i wonder if you could have presents like at um you know the fall into arts

[16:49] festival and maybe you already do or the adina art fair would just you know do

[16:56] you know a house that might you know qualify for this award or something like that just to raise awareness but I don't

[17:02] know if that's adding more work ownorous but um or if it could be

[17:09] easily attached to other things that we're putting out there

[17:18] um I feel like I'm kind of processing in real time because I didn't really have a lot to work with to prep for this

[17:24] meeting so um you're getting my reaction not my

[17:29] reflection um I am a process thinker but that's kind of that and the only idea I had was

[17:37] would it make sense to do the um award for that home like every other

[17:44] year or something like that or you know if it seems like you're having a hard time finding places but again a reaction

[17:53] not a reflection and might not be a good idea i don't know

[17:59] and I think this is helpful for me too because that's always the consideration I want to make is how is the board

[18:06] feeling about the workload and I'm not hearing like a resounding we need more

[18:14] give us more right and so I appreciated Commissioner um Risser's point of

[18:21] like does it almost even feel like too much like are there areas in which there

[18:27] should be less Um and I like that idea of and up to all

[18:32] of you right but if we're having a hard time finding submissions perfect

[18:39] opportunity to say "Okay let's scale this back to every other year right?" Because that's going to also help

[18:44] minimize the communication aspect of it and um allow you to focus on things like

[18:51] the comprehensive plan which will be I think more timeconuming in the the coming years so that's kind of where my

[18:57] head goes as well i don't have there haven't been things on my agenda that I've been like "Oh I can't wait until we

[19:03] can get to this." Um but I also think maybe in 2 years where will we be at in the comp

[19:10] plan process uh 27 into it yeah okay i was going to say

[19:17] in two years once that's done then maybe we can think about this uh in four years

[19:23] once that's done that might be then another opportunity to reflect and say "Okay these were things that were

[19:29] identified." And it might become more clear of what the direction could be based off of those discussions i don't

[19:36] know how far back the award goes Emily do you know um this was our 21st year I believe and those are all consecutive

[19:42] yes okay but it could be something where we yeah we review it annually and if we don't

[19:48] feel like we have a compelling enough submission that we could just withhold it till next year i I I think we were

[19:55] trying to marry that up with the heritage preservation month is that usually

[20:01] preservation month is May may yeah yeah we just did it and so if um you know if there isn't an award that you know that

[20:08] month that's presented I think there could be other ways we could celebrate some existing landmarks instead

[20:13] um so maybe we could look into that whether it's a tour or whether it's an exhibit or or something

[20:19] um where we don't feel like we're just we're just forcing one i I think we've come up with actually some great ideas

[20:24] the last few years so I don't feel like it hasn't been merited but I could certainly see a situ scenario in next

[20:31] year where we just don't have a great submission and then we're kind of grasping at straws at the last second

[20:38] that isn't a ton of work from us unless it's unless we mandated that you know every commissioner has to make a submission but I know I did a submission

[20:45] a few years ago and it was a little extra leg work but it so it seems to me that scope of

[20:53] work is relatively the same um few tweaks here or there and it sounds like

[21:00] you've got some really good creative ideas to address a couple of challenges that you have like the heritage award um

[21:08] I don't have any additional questions or ideas um I just say if you get into it

[21:16] and if you find that you guys are struggling in any particular area just

[21:22] raise your hand and then we can we can help address issues at that point and we

[21:28] can't technically we're not supposed to like reach out and say "Hey I've got a

[21:34] great idea i'd like to meet with you." Um but if you have a concern and you

[21:40] feel like there's something council needs to know please do not hesitate to contact us because the it can flow from

[21:46] you and then if it starts with you I'd be happy to meet you know with any of you and just sit down and talk if

[21:52] there's something that comes up that you think needs to be on council's radar

[21:59] is there anything like now i don't think so i mean I I will say

[22:05] that um you know we we hired some new consultants was that a year a year and a

[22:10] half ago yep a year and a half um and they've been great um really stellar and so I I'm sure there's more funding

[22:16] that's had to go into that but I think the education component that consistency

[22:22] um and we've we've had a we have a lot we had a lot of turnover this year for commissioners too so having them there

[22:27] as uh educators and and really helping on

[22:33] board the new commissioners I think has been great and even for some of us who have more experience I think it's been um especially if you don't have an

[22:39] architectural background I think the way that they explain things um in their memos and how they interact with

[22:44] commissioners has been uh very very helpful so would like to continue that relationship with with with their firm

[22:51] in the you know the foreseeable future if possible good to know thank you and

[22:57] we're just saying some of this stuff because we want you guys to have a good experience because I have to say the

[23:03] awards was it it was last week right last meeting that we had they were so inspiring and just really a bright spot

[23:10] so I I want you all feel very proud of the work that you've done because for me it was just wonderful to see those

[23:15] reports for me I'll say that um I think about

[23:22] board and commission work whether it's your commission the refrigeration planning any other board commission it's

[23:28] a lot like our work you've got the responsibility of thinking about the here and the now yeah sort of that

[23:35] ongoing workload that you have but you've also got an obligation in my mind to be thinking about well where are we

[23:40] going where are we heading what do we need to be thinking about next and you know we're going to go through this

[23:46] comprehensive plan effort it's going to take us there but we've also been talking about we've been doing visioning

[23:52] about every 10 years but what do what do we want our town to look like in 2030

[23:57] 2040 and we might get to that before we get to the the comprehensive plan work

[24:02] but that's something I think all of you should be thinking about too and and particularly probably the planning

[24:08] commission is from a land use standpoint but I I started writing down things that

[24:13] I thought were important for the work that you've been doing and everything

[24:18] ends in a ton it's preservation

[24:24] regulation celebration communication and education

[24:30] and and all of these things I think are really important to people in our community because we take a lot of pride

[24:36] in where we live in and in in a in a big metropolitan area that gets to be kind of

[24:42] amorphous carving out your own identity isn't easy especially when you're a first ring

[24:48] suburb and and we've done a good job of that and it's organizations like yours that have really helped us or

[24:54] commissions like yours that really helped us carve out some of those distinctions of these are important

[25:00] parts of talent these are things we want to celebrate so you talk about more hundredyear homes coming up you know I

[25:06] think there are people out there that would like to be part of that celebration well I think to that point I

[25:12] mean forecasting right because um yeah every year we have more hundred-year homes and a decade from now or 20 years

[25:19] from now houses that are currently not considered historic will be historic and so just kind of keeping one eye to the

[25:25] future and making sure that we don't lose those resources before they become you know technically or legally historic

[25:32] and how can we maybe work with work with planning um on on that and how does that

[25:38] dovetail with a comprehensive plan one one thing I worried about a while back and maybe you solved it from a

[25:44] regulatory standpoint that was you might have done a plan of

[25:50] treatment for the um house over on uh I think it's on

[25:56] bridge and brownale kind of on the creek it was on a corner right across from Browndale

[26:04] Park and for years that thing sat empty because nobody could figure out but the plan of treatment that was approved how

[26:10] they were going to be able to afford to do something with it and people with a lot of means were they had purchase

[26:16] agreements on the house that fell through because when they went to get the architects and the engineers and the contractors involved now somebody had

[26:23] finally fixed that house up but I I was worried for a long time that it would sit there as a shell because of the the

[26:31] plan of treatment that we had in place they Yeah it was initially presented as

[26:37] a tear down which we denied and then right sent them back to the drawing board and they came up with a nice

[26:42] solution that looks great now but it's terrific yeah so that I mean if you've

[26:48] got that kind of flexibility to kind of revisit things to make sure things don't sit empty and unressed because of

[26:59] some regulatory compliance or some just some practical I guess uh compliance

[27:05] barriers that are cost related you may need to think about revising a plan or treatment to cut them a little

[27:12] bit of slack to maintain that historic feel but maybe not create as much of a

[27:17] cost barrier for them but maybe maybe everything's fine on that because you know when I drive by there now it's

[27:23] gorgeous it looks like it's been there forever and somebody probably spent six million bucks on that

[27:31] house thanks to them wherever they are

[27:36] so that actually made me think of like a complete complete tangent i'm going to look maybe to manager Neil for this

[27:43] question last Thursday we had a conversation about obtainable housing

[27:49] affordable housing within Edina and one of the questions that we brought was

[27:55] what can we do about some of the tearowns and hearing that kind of makes me

[28:02] think I don't I don't logistically policy-wise no is there an opportunity

[28:08] to expand that definition of what needs to go through review like if we think

[28:14] about mid-century modern or something like that that also has a beautiful impact that today is

[28:22] potentially being torn down is there that opportunity or no

[28:28] well it it depends if you're thinking about like uh could we expand the cert

[28:34] certificate of appropriateness kind of system that we use in we we don't unless

[28:39] we can have unless we can show that we've got a a group of these homes or there's some

[28:46] other architectural um unique feature to them did it have to like be in one area almost or there's

[28:53] generally associated some sort of architectural um uniqueness that's

[28:58] associated with a geographic area we did have during one of our meetings we had a

[29:03] community comment somebody came in with this exact question yeah he lives in a mid-century modern house I think over um

[29:10] off of All Inger there's there's a cluster of them over there and he said there's a builder coming into the

[29:15] neighborhood and he was tearing down one of the houses and he was worried that that was just going to be the first domino and was just wondering is there anything we can do to protect the rest

[29:22] of these houses um or to put limitations on on what could be done to them there

[29:27] are other regulatory actions that we could take as a as a as a council as a city to slow that process down

[29:35] um there's economic impacts from that of course and you hear very quickly from

[29:40] from owners of those homes that they probably don't want you to do that um you hear from their kids too um on a lot

[29:47] of cases but that's another way to go about it there could be more of a carrot

[29:53] um potential here though because mid-century modern is throughout Edina and it is really incredibly well done um

[30:02] and you can find it you know so you can it is relevant to a lot of neighborhoods and I I know in my neighborhood there

[30:10] you know one of the residents um put on an addition and it was amazing how they

[30:16] did it in probably the most respectful way possible and that it didn't really

[30:22] alter the neighborhood um whatever housecape or whatever you want to say

[30:28] but um you know just in terms of maybe you know some kind of recognition for

[30:34] mid-century modern could be a baby step but then is so I don't I don't know but

[30:39] that you I'm um over in the conquered area on Ash and I'm in a mid-century too

[30:46] as well so yeah I mean they're everywhere and um they are so solid and

[30:51] so well built you know so there's that um but maybe just you know

[30:59] recognizing one the mid-century house of the year you'd probably get submissions

[31:05] that you know you could you could mix it up with the other award and then take that but there's so many but you just

[31:12] now created a new award no but if they they do it every other year so they just you know they don't have to there was a

[31:18] mid-century modern it wasn't last year was it the year before yeah a couple years ago that was recognized with the

[31:25] heritage award but but not making it part of the heritage award making a standalone celebrates its mid because

[31:32] there are so many of them and they really are would it would it be possible to um to showcase in some way the

[31:42] mid-century modern homes that exist so kind of thinking about

[31:47] um like showing people what what's possible so like I live in a house that's a four-level split um and it

[31:55] doesn't look like most four-level splits so I have the you know my husband and I

[32:01] designed and kind of came up with it and and everybody you know comments on it that it's like so great and how could we

[32:09] get other people to do sort of the same thing to update the four-level split variety of the home so it's not

[32:15] mid-century modern but I think to to the question that you asked you know how do

[32:20] we get the affordable attainable without doing a a tear down so is there a way to

[32:27] educate the community the residents that already live here about the possibilities instead of thinking "Oh I

[32:34] have to tear it down if I want something different." Um and the the builders um

[32:40] the typical builders that do a great job in Udina is there a way to educate or

[32:46] entice or something um to show them like you don't have to tear it to tear it

[32:53] down so it's kind of getting ahead of instead of making it painful to to tear

[32:59] something down like give them a reason not to um both you know ideas

[33:05] because you know being a real estate agent people can't see something that's

[33:10] not right in front of their face so how do you show them you know something that's possible not

[33:17] um encouraging them to to continue to tear down and build

[33:22] some box or you know all the ones that we don't like you know i I love that idea like and and building it's all

[33:30] about preservation and expansion or you know just kind of valuing what you

[33:35] That's a great idea i love it could our committee ever partner with like I mean

[33:41] through the American Institute of Architects they have homes by architects tours and they educate homeowners when

[33:48] they come in to see the homes but would we ever advertise or partner with those

[33:54] people so that we could Well and there Yeah and there's a um in Lynen Hills um

[33:59] which is you know our neighbor um they do a resident driven home tour and so to

[34:07] the mid-century modern people who are very often very proud of their homes

[34:12] because they are so unique and everyone loves that mid-century modern so would there you know could there be something

[34:19] like that where you know it's it's almost a resident driven where you take applications and you you know set some

[34:25] criteria out and then we have a mid-century modern tour of Adina and then so go on that i know like everybody

[34:33] will you know I mean you know right right and I mean I I just think that you know and the residents man their own

[34:40] homes and they you know get to be proud and talk about and you know things like that and you know we can do something

[34:48] that would teach about you know safety in your house and you know how to prepare and like all that kind of stuff

[34:54] but you know just to get people thinking about how do I keep what exists instead

[34:59] of just feeling like if I move into Edina or if I move within Edina I have to tear down to get what I want i don't

[35:06] know just a thought i think that's great that to be continued i hope um Yeah no I

[35:14] mean that could be a work plan item right to kind of determine whether that's

[35:19] to determine whether that's it there's a there's a something there there's a there's a I would tackle that if we do

[35:26] decide to add it because I feel pretty strongly about keeping you know not just tearing down for the sake of tearing

[35:32] down um you know working within So we're doing now what we said we

[35:39] didn't want to do from the first couple of slides so if we're adding to the work plan they're adding something yeah no

[35:47] right right yeah no that's coming from a discussion we're having that is creating potentially creating

[35:53] another work plan item i don't have any issue with that but um I would say for

[36:00] the commission this is not a directive from us to go do this right and they started

[36:06] with that and so if you assess it and you feel like there's some value in it

[36:11] then yeah I would would bring it back but we're absolutely not suggesting that this

[36:17] should be another work plan item totally i didn't hear that at all

[36:24] sure we should get to plan i think I would say it goes to the

[36:30] notion of looking forward but what's what's possible out there you know and maybe we become the Midwest version of

[36:37] what they do in Palm Springs for the Century Modern week oh I didn't even know there was a week that's exciting

[36:44] all right who knew thank you yeah no this was great um so you are ready to go we'll have the

[36:51] planning commissioners come up and then we will provide you a summary of the notes um from this conversation today as

[36:57] well for you guys to go back and do your work with the commission thanks for coming tonight

[37:03] 6100 there's a

[37:13] midyuresa how are you it's good to see you again

[37:19] we'll send something to yeah that I think there's a shared

[37:25] interest with it sounds like

[37:30] so I don't know how to keep that communication open or let's talk further about that does that work thanks to wow

[37:39] [Music]

[37:45] what is Uh

[37:52] February 13th through the 22nd good

[37:59] time sleep limited limited very limited all right

[38:04] we have the planning commissioners here to uh pres not present but to have a conversation with you jimmy has some

[38:11] notes so I think he is ready to kick this off yeah unpopular opinion and I mean if we want to make Edina more

[38:18] affordable we just have to make it very undesirable so I just kidding

[38:25] um unlike prior years where we are like debating between seven or eight work

[38:32] plan items and then you guys add another one to it and then we have to take it

[38:37] away we're we're going for something more simple here mostly because one of the

[38:44] items is enormous and it captures a lot of things so we have three currently and

[38:50] then we'll get into maybe a quasi fourth andor it's just part of our job so the

[38:56] first one is just our ordinary meetings that are every every couple weeks that's

[39:02] always on there that's always a huge you know effort by staff

[39:08] and then the second one would be the zoning overhaul the zoning update and with that brings a lot and I know

[39:17] probably all council members have something they'd like to see in there or be addressed as do all of the

[39:23] commissioners that's kind of like everything from our parking lot items has just kind of made its way into that

[39:29] bucket so that's a huge one and the timing of it seems pretty good because that leads into our third one which is

[39:36] to to ready or let's let's say to deliver that in a way that is compatible

[39:43] with the kickoff of the comprehensive plan update which will kick off in about two years but will be on basically our

[39:51] two-year work plan so those are kind of like the three big

[39:57] initiatives but wanted to just also open up conversation around some of this

[40:04] experience survey um findings and results um cuz we always like feedback

[40:11] from both residents as well as former commissioners as to how we can improve the process um I was thinking like

[40:18] creating and keeping efficiency c A K E you know cake seems very fitting

[40:26] just joking somebody's got to write that down

[40:33] so so we we heard from a lot of commissioners and some of this kind of and and residents it kind of dovtales

[40:41] into some former discussions we've had we've always kind of had one work item

[40:46] that is something processoriented with whether it's a public hearing process or

[40:52] it's engagement there so this is what like we want discussion around this

[40:57] because it's almost more a part of our job to kind of get feedback pass it to staff pass it to you and see if we can't

[41:04] just quickly update the process or is it a bigger task so I wanted to just share

[41:10] you know maybe 12 different things so you can react to it then maybe later

[41:17] reflect on it um so length of meetings has come up

[41:23] quantity of meetings has come up again as you remember we talked about duplicate public hearings um the

[41:30] quantity of planning commission members uh being reduced to seven or five um an

[41:37] overall lack of unity between outcomes or recommendations between the planning

[41:42] commission and city council um that being inefficient in a way or an outcome

[41:48] of inefficiencies potentially um some things that are maybe feedback

[41:55] for myself of managing meetings more effectively including conduct conflict

[42:03] um getting questions to staff earlier maybe offline so staff can provide

[42:10] answers to them um we've we've kind of already accommodated one change which

[42:16] was combining our question and answer period so that both presentations could

[42:22] happen staff and the applicant being more on point with our conversations um and then I mean all of

[42:29] this if if you if you think about these things it's like with efficiency there's a balance it's like the tension between

[42:36] quality quantity providing more context and engagement and opportunities for

[42:42] engagement but also being resourceful and responsible especially with taxpayer

[42:47] dollars so like you know every hour we run long every duplicate meeting we have

[42:54] is a huge burden on city staff and resources that cost our city money so we

[43:00] have like we and you have to you know be responsible with that balance and we

[43:06] think that there's opportunities to be more efficient as we've brought up before the feedback suggests that too i

[43:14] don't know if you've had time to reflect since you know a year or two ago or even just react to some of this stuff but

[43:21] that's probably the other stuff that we'd like to talk about kind of inject

[43:27] into our our process that might not be a work item but just something we're always

[43:34] aware of thinking about and then certainly we want to get

[43:40] a record of what zoning updates or focus items you'd like to really dive into and

[43:48] that could be maybe more after a time of reflection and email to staff or the

[43:54] commission so that was a lot of just and now we're going to take it back

[44:00] um I really appreciate the way you presented things and I particularly

[44:07] liked your point about being resourceful and responsible and really thinking

[44:13] about staff time and meeting time and all of that and having served on the

[44:19] planning commission um I know you get this big packet you don't have a lot of time to go through

[44:26] it a lot of stuff is coming at you our code is incredibly

[44:32] convoluted it's being rewritten or worked on is my

[44:37] understanding um we as council add to the code and we

[44:44] um code comes to us from staff and I don't know if you watched and saw with

[44:51] the pet store ordinance we kind of had to process in real time we didn't vote

[44:57] on it when it first came to us um because instead of using a definition

[45:02] for a pet store there was a definition for kennel and it was very convoluted and so

[45:08] um I think one of the things that both planning and

[45:15] council have to really acknowledge is the convoluted code and

[45:21] the fact that we could update it but it could continue to be convoluted if we add to it in ways that are not good the

[45:28] other thing is in terms of zoning we have no limits on how far variances can

[45:36] go okay none other cities do which means

[45:42] I think um this lends itself to projects coming forward

[45:50] that some people on planning and some people on council really have a hard time with you know when you are allowing

[45:58] a develop or promoting a development that's four times the legal buildable area or a building that is like way over

[46:07] the height limit um I think that takes a lot of time and I think it interjects a

[46:15] lot of inefficiencies and I think it'd be great if we could have a cap on how far variances can go and it does make

[46:22] architecture and development in Edina less exciting um I did yesterday because

[46:27] it was 90° and really windy i thought let's go to the Bower you know and feel

[46:33] the Alberti impact as I walk around there and that was fascinating it was

[46:39] kind of strange but fun and you know we can keep going this direction but I

[46:46] think it is really hard um the third thing is it's not

[46:53] necessarily the case that the information that is coming to you or the way it is interpreted and this is

[46:59] happens at council it also happens at planning um is code or statutoily

[47:07] compliant and this is one a very personal thing for me because I got I mean one of the reasons I ran was just

[47:13] seeing what was going on in my neighborhood and you can go and this I brought it in if anyone wants to listen

[47:19] to the planning commission reviewing a sketch plan from 2021 and it was for a

[47:24] 1.27 acre site and the argument was that there could be

[47:31] um let's see 27 it could be a development that would have 13 condo

[47:37] units on it okay and this was the Burly site and the argument was this was

[47:42] possible because down the road not next to it there was a oneacre site that was part of the development okay and so the

[47:48] the argument is we can combine these two lots even though they are not physically one and so it was sort of a mythological

[47:55] site that never existed and we invested time in that both at the planning commission level and at the city council

[48:02] level and as a resident that really bothered me and I thought I'll write a letter and this will change surely just

[48:09] pointing this out will bring about change and it didn't um and then as a candidate I ran and I brought up issues

[48:14] with zoning and nothing changed and then most recently it was frustrating on the 16th um the way something was presented

[48:23] to council meant I couldn't vote in a way that was fully informed and so this

[48:29] is an ongoing thing that I do think and I don't know how to deal with it um I

[48:35] can't I can continue to advocate that we should have information that is thorough

[48:43] and code and statutoily compliant but I'm not getting anywhere and I'm two and

[48:50] a half years into my term so I don't I don't know how to fix that i can't I

[48:55] don't even know you know what the cause is so you know is it that we don't we

[49:01] don't have people who understand the code or is it that there's an unwillingness to do I I have no idea why

[49:09] but so those are things that I think you're dealing with i know you're dealing with we're dealing with and um

[49:19] it is about time it is about resources it wastes time um and then we have to go

[49:24] back and fix things and it's also about credibility so I and I should let other

[49:29] people talk but that's kind of my reaction to what you put out there i

[49:36] just had put a cautionary note on this you get your guidance from the city council individual opinions here are

[49:43] important in the scheme of things but they're not the directive of the council and we can have these conversations at

[49:49] the council level and we can have conversations you probably have amongst most yourselves about what does the code

[49:55] mean you know it's not exactly like the ten commandments it's it's got a lot of

[50:01] I mean the reason the variances exist in there for a reason because for every general rule there's an exception to the

[50:06] rule and how far do you want to take it so as you go about developing your town one person's opinion may be important to

[50:13] that person and others as well but it's not the collective decision of the council so I would just say in the

[50:19] context of this conversation we need to be careful about what we're what we're talking about and we get headed in a

[50:26] general direction in terms of guidance and not somebody's specific ideas of the

[50:31] direction we be we ought to be taking because there may or may not be people that agree with them to be clear I

[50:38] wasn't advocating for a direction i was pointing out the issues you say may or may not like as a pun to

[50:46] mayor yeah i got that that's some creative right because we live in a town of 50,000

[50:52] people and they have 50,000 opinions and that's one of the reason you have um a commission of a number of people so we

[50:58] can talk about things and then kind of pre-reason them send them on to you so you guys can

[51:05] talk about them as well and I think kind of like prelimiting what things people

[51:11] can bring to us is not our role

[51:17] um so I want to put a different twist on this the small area plans were a

[51:22] creation of the 2018 U comprehensive plan and so we've had you know seven

[51:29] years of that now I would be interested in a summary from you guys of what that experience was like and you know Kate

[51:36] was in both positions but it was really difficult I think for all of us to figure out how does a small area plan

[51:44] work in in reality it's very you know that they they tried to come up with every twist and turn and and put it

[51:50] together but especially the Southdale plan but um but this is something that's new and it does have a lot of ambiguity

[51:57] for the public oh it's zone four stories but it's a 20s story building well that's because it's a it's under the

[52:03] Southdale small area plan that's allowed and and it's a conversation so um it was

[52:10] planned as a conversation with developers in the community but I would like to have a report back from you guys

[52:16] as to what that experience actually felt like having to implement it um because I think that's where I found a lot of the

[52:24] discrepancies between the planning commission and the city council um and did you

[52:30] know is this something that that we can make more efficient or or less

[52:35] contentious or is it just because it's a conversation is by its nature going to have a lot of 50,000 opinions um but I'd

[52:43] love to hear your your sort of a formal feedback on that just yeah logically it would it seems like that would go kind

[52:50] of in line as we collectively the 50,000 opinions develop our goals for the comprehensive plan

[52:57] update just you know revisiting what the last one was like effectiveness of it

[53:03] altering it that seems like we will definitely touch on that yeah so I I'd

[53:10] be very interested in that and then in past um meetings with you guys we've talked about um training as to what uh

[53:16] and I know um I went through that when I was first elected and I don't know the last time you guys went through planning

[53:23] commission training but um but I think it seems like a year ago we had talked about it curry do you remember that must

[53:29] not have been that long ago because I haven't been on the commission that long and I've done it yeah yeah we try to do

[53:36] at least one a year we had a whole bunch from the APA that they all were able to do on their own okay that's true and so

[53:43] you know I don't know did you guys was that useful for you guys anything like that is useful i don't think everyone

[53:49] did it but that seems to be a common thread

[53:54] basically just adequate training and then this is kind of that balance of efficiency you know we're a recom we're

[54:01] an advisory body to you but we're we ought to be very well trained on code

[54:08] planning so that the outcomes ought to be a little more united just in general

[54:14] as you rely on us to kind of be stewards and expert experts in that field so I

[54:21] don't think there could be too much of it we haven't ever got to that point I'd say okay yeah because I think part of the training is to understand the

[54:28] advisory role right so you you guys get technical and we get political you know basically because I think that would

[54:35] help with the focus and stuff um uh because we have to take into account

[54:41] other things besides the technical analysis but but it's nice to be able to rely on you guys having really done that

[54:46] deep dive into the technical analysis so yeah so anytime you want more training

[54:52] I'm in favor of that you just raised an interesting issue Jimmy it was you know you've been

[54:58] working on the code uh to make it match up or cause it to match up with the existing comp plan now

[55:05] we're just on the front end of starting to work on the new comp plan and is there some anticipation about

[55:12] aligning potentially aligning those recommendations with the code as well i

[55:17] think that's what everyone wants including staff and I'm assuming you guys too just seems like everything's

[55:24] coming to a good point in time where these things are converging where it could go either

[55:30] really well or you know yeah I wasn't sure as much I

[55:35] think the challenge though is we don't know what the consequences are and so I would agree I think they're

[55:44] coming together but I don't know if the outcome's going to be better or worse

[55:49] and so this ability to be able to predict or forecast if we make these

[55:55] changes this is what we can expect this is how our processes are likely going to

[56:01] run this is the kind of change we might see in our community i I think we have to figure out a way that we can do that

[56:10] um there's um one of the things that I think we need from an affordable housing

[56:17] perspective i' I've often felt like we try to control the market and so we do

[56:24] these things that we think might encourage people to do make a different decision and some of them feel great

[56:31] right um but what I really think we need to do is have a code and a comp plan that

[56:41] encourages the types of products we want in our market and if that means like for uh lot

[56:51] coverage like we need to relax that i'm totally making this up but we have to look at it um then that might encourage

[56:58] us to do different types of that might encourage a developer to be able to to

[57:03] actually build a different product that might be more affordable um you've heard

[57:10] me use this example where it's easier today to buy two lots and combine them

[57:15] and build a beautiful house than it is to take a lot that's you know decent

[57:21] size and build twin homes on it right um

[57:26] and we already have twin homes in Parkwood right so I think that we have

[57:34] to kind of shift and say we really need our city code our comp plan to be done

[57:41] in such a way that it encourages other types of products that

[57:46] we want in our market um and then you do this forecast to say

[57:52] "All right if we do that we might get more ADUs or whatever do we want that as

[57:57] an outcome?" Yeah that feels pretty good right and then we move forward with that

[58:03] um but I think that has to be a part of what we we look at and we can't wait

[58:09] until two years from now to have that conversation about well what kind of products do we really want in our

[58:16] community um so that's one you talked about

[58:21] efficient processes a lot and so I was I want to give you a funny one so I'm at

[58:28] home watching planning commission and um my wife is working i don't have

[58:34] headphones on cuz I'm you have it planned on my computer and she goes "What is that?"

[58:43] And I said "Well that's the planning commission they're talking." It was a

[58:48] 5516 it was that one when you guys were looking at that that burning property and she

[58:55] goes "Why does everybody talk so much?" And I said "Well you know

[59:04] everybody wants to express their opinion." Um and so it made me think

[59:10] about this one point What if it's not necessarily process but

[59:16] it's the planning commission culture where we have a culture even like it

[59:23] could be on city council as well but we have this culture where it doesn't feel like we're doing

[59:30] our job unless we pontificate

[59:36] and if you're saying the same thing that somebody else has said then maybe it

[59:41] doesn't need to be said right and so I just wondered for us is there something from a cultural standpoint operating

[59:50] principles that kind of thing that uh we could lean into um that has nothing to

[59:56] do with the structure of a commission or the code or the comp plan right that's

[1:00:03] just all how we work more efficiently together um and then this last one I

[1:00:10] don't know that our decisions should

[1:00:15] align um I don't know if that's the goal and so I I but like I want to convince

[1:00:21] myself that if our code and comp plan if we collectively agree what we're trying

[1:00:28] to influence then yeah then I think decisions would be aligned but without that I actually

[1:00:37] watch the planning commission meetings because you guys in my opinion are the

[1:00:43] SME whether you think you are or not we're relying on you to be and so like

[1:00:49] I'm listening for Ryan to say "Well here's something in the code that we

[1:00:55] should be concerned with." And I'm like "Oh yeah that's true maybe I should go look into that." And so because those

[1:01:01] things exist by the time you get to the city

[1:01:07] council often times I don't know that we necessarily are aligned and so my only point was I don't know if that is the

[1:01:15] intent or not and if it is it's going to be really hard to do that with code and

[1:01:22] um the structure that we have today and I think a lot of these things can be

[1:01:27] addressed by uh the way we thoughtfully plan about our next comp plan review and then

[1:01:36] executing that work

[1:01:42] thank you so I will not repeat anything that was

[1:01:47] said that I agree with which could be nothing no there there

[1:01:52] were definitely pieces pieces of that that I agree with um which is just going to TV you know no it's just going to

[1:01:59] make what I say sound like a complete uh 180 um or just tangent um as we're going

[1:02:07] through and doing some of these like zoning overhauls and trying to make our

[1:02:12] language more digestible readable um I understand we're probably going to be

[1:02:18] working with a consultant like we usually do uh but we should also try and

[1:02:23] leverage AI as much as we can because literally you pop that into it and

[1:02:28] you're like "Hey make this easier to comprehend or take this from an 83page

[1:02:34] document on parking minimums and like make it realistically one page and it

[1:02:39] will do that." And then you like use your human brains to review and analyze

[1:02:44] and make sure that like it still carries forward but I think in addition to partnering with a

[1:02:51] consultant that will provide a really good lens and I've also been I used it

[1:02:58] um for drafting up an ordinance recently cuz I was just like hey what do other

[1:03:03] cities do within the leaf blower gas leaf blower space um and there's like

[1:03:10] deep research that you can have it do where it will go and find every other city with 50,000 approximately people

[1:03:16] and they have a gas leaf blower ordinance and it pulls it all together and here's the feedback that they got

[1:03:22] when they were going through it and it does it all for you um so I know I'm the technologist but let's try and like

[1:03:28] leverage a little bit of that because I think this is an area I hadn't quite thought about it yet recently but as

[1:03:34] I've been digging into it it's been super valuable i think as long as there's a lot of

[1:03:40] wisdom involved in interpreting that because I think if there's not a deep

[1:03:45] history or a a knowledge of your community and the way different people

[1:03:51] kind of interact um then I think it's

[1:03:57] not a good use country Club and Parkwood Nolles are very different on in a lot of ways and the AI is not going to have

[1:04:03] that nuance and I'm not suggesting using it in a silo it's pairing it with the

[1:04:09] intelligence of people that we have here along with a consultant who they usually don't have that background or there's

[1:04:15] sometimes they don't have that background either um so use it as a tool

[1:04:21] uh other commissioners question just since I'm working on the zoning ordinance and that's coming up as we

[1:04:28] start to look at it in advance of the comp plan i'm would just be curious for any feedback you guys have on pain

[1:04:35] points or what you might like to see us at least consider obviously no one has the magic solution but things that you

[1:04:41] want to make sure that we're noodling on putting caps on variances

[1:04:48] what does that mean it means that like Bloomington says you can only go 25%

[1:04:56] over the established setback variance okay we don't have any caps at all and

[1:05:03] so um you end up with proposals that you

[1:05:10] know you might be having two times the legal buildable area or four times the

[1:05:15] legal buildable area um and I get that like and the thing is that traditionally with PUDs the whole idea was you would

[1:05:24] give a little bit and you would get more green space and the way we do PUDs is we

[1:05:29] give a lot and we go up and we go out and so we're not getting what was

[1:05:37] originally kind of the whole idea behind the PUD and so you know just kind of

[1:05:42] thinking about how if we could bring it in a little bit you know Commissioner

[1:05:49] Risher are you talking about caps within the PUD itself or within commercial

[1:05:54] districts residential district well you could do it by district that could be um a good way to go but to just say and the

[1:06:02] thing is when we look at R1 we're really good about saying we're not going to allow any um changes to the setback

[1:06:10] variance you know and there's kind of we do those all the time we do but we don't

[1:06:15] go huge it's I'm thinking the commercial areas where you get twice the legal buildable area or four times the legal

[1:06:22] buildable area okay but do you do I mean Yeah no right but I mean when you maybe

[1:06:28] you do maybe you're just I did a 100 foot one the other day oh like a 100 foot variance anyway that was

[1:06:33] interesting though but it makes total sense when you look that loud that was and that had to happen right and so

[1:06:40] basically case by is important but just kind of thinking

[1:06:47] you know noodling if you could noodle on it that would be great absolutely that would be I think a lot of that is simplified with a con zoning update yep

[1:06:55] in this overall like we're talking okay even like this last one if we address something with the flag pole lot it's

[1:07:02] like then it would just it wouldn't have to even come to us but I just so I'm going to kind of

[1:07:09] repeat this again that seems arbitrary to me which is why

[1:07:14] I said what do you mean by Okay variance it's as arbitrary as the setback to

[1:07:19] begin with yes and so I think we need to start with the outcome we're going for

[1:07:26] okay and so if again if these are the products we want to have more of in our

[1:07:33] marketplace and process says man that the zoning coverage is causing that

[1:07:41] issue yep then I'm for changing it right but but we got to start with what

[1:07:48] outcome are we after so that's what I that's my guidance to say whatever the

[1:07:55] recommendation is start with here's why we're doing it we're trying to drive this outcome and we think these three

[1:08:01] things help drive that outcome and are there Yeah to that point is there something you would like us to think

[1:08:07] about yeah so go even go back a step further and think about manager Neil had been meeting for over a year now with

[1:08:15] since the last legislative session on housing production and affordability issues because the

[1:08:22] legislature you last year they tried to user local control on land use yep so

[1:08:28] you might start thinking about in our community what are the different ways that we could address those issues

[1:08:35] production is pretty tough because we don't have green space we don't have green field but but affordability might

[1:08:41] be different issue you know we don't have the same situation as prior lake where they have a lot of green field

[1:08:47] about efficiency i mean I think there are things that come before us that staff should take care of that shouldn't

[1:08:54] come before us at all um different levels of action like some cities which

[1:09:00] I think the zone the update the zoning can take care of correct

[1:09:05] ryan was going to say something too oh I was just going to say if we reduce complexity you'd probably have fewer touch points there and then I think to

[1:09:11] your point on making it easier right a good example would be that Vernon project where we had comprehensive plan

[1:09:18] had a distinction between single family and single family detached is that necessary do we need that distinction and then cause a comprehensive plan

[1:09:25] amendment right and go go through that process that's probably something that we could just certainly look at and adjust and something that's on I think

[1:09:32] on our radar but and if I can I just Yeah please don't hear me say though I

[1:09:39] want to be clear my father used to always say don't change something until you know why it

[1:09:46] was put that way to begin with right and so I don't want to just again go

[1:09:54] arbitrarily changing stuff right it's all right why did we have this

[1:09:59] designation all right well that's why we did it back in whatever 19 blah blah blah

[1:10:06] we don't need that anymore and so then to drive this outcome here's the change

[1:10:12] we're going to recommend right so that very thoughtful methodical process of making those decisions sorry no no

[1:10:19] that's okay that I I love that advice um so two things that I'm thinking about

[1:10:25] is in the national conversation about affordable housing one of the first thing that always comes up is minimum

[1:10:30] lot size and we have a number of different minimum lot sizes in the city and I'd be interested in an analysis

[1:10:38] um on minimum lot size and you know still we have our city is Edina and it

[1:10:44] has a character but we're also you know is how can we adjust minimum lot size to

[1:10:51] meet our goals on on affordability and that sort of missing middle housing the

[1:10:56] second thing is is I can't sit next to Julie Risser and not mention um the drooling moose um the trend in

[1:11:04] industrial areas in cities that are depressed so not necessarily us well

[1:11:09] I'll I'll tell you what that means in a minute sorry yep so in cities where they're

[1:11:16] trying to revitalize their industrial area they will have kind of a tourist

[1:11:21] component to it so um the example was I don't know I'm just going to make this up a purse maybe use Duth as an example

[1:11:28] well I don't know what's going on yeah they our whole commercial industrial bases not of a shop so they're trying to

[1:11:34] figure out ways to right St louis like St park with their maker space that they ended up introducing can I finish please

[1:11:41] the example that was given and I'm going to make up the industry cuz I can't remember was a purse making industry and

[1:11:49] so they would have the leather toolers and everything and they'd have a glass window so you could come and watch the

[1:11:54] process for how these products were made and then you would have a little gift store there as well our zone industrial

[1:12:01] zoning code doesn't allow that but the trend in industrial zones especially for economic development is to allow the

[1:12:08] public to sort of come in and participate on some level with the industrial process our code when so when

[1:12:14] Julie Moose said we're going to have this warehouse here and we'd like to have a little shop that was you know a

[1:12:20] question as to whether that comported with our code or not and we hear about it a lot but that in this trend

[1:12:27] nationally would be welcomed not controversial put that out there right

[1:12:32] but and I'm glad you brought up the drooling moose because that was another situation where planning was asked to

[1:12:38] grant a variance to change the use in the industrial zone and um we're

[1:12:47] comfortable with that in Edina at the staff level but you talk to people at

[1:12:56] conferences or whatever other cities and they're like "How can you possibly do that planning is in charge of physical

[1:13:03] changes not functional changes." And um

[1:13:08] it would be and I guess if the drooling moose can do it you know why are we not announcing to every business hey who's

[1:13:17] that's in the industrial zone go for it and I think this gets to the whole one of the things that

[1:13:23] really has been on my radar for so long is how do we move forward in a way that

[1:13:34] is consistent with our code and compliant and not really pushing the

[1:13:40] edge in a way where issues about fairness and credibility and is it

[1:13:45] really your purview come up and I think it is so hard i I just the the one thing

[1:13:50] I really want to emphasize before we part is that I am so grateful for all of

[1:13:56] you for serving on planning and I watch your meetings i'm thinking

[1:14:01] about you i know you've got a big packet convoluted code um so much coming

[1:14:08] at you and sometimes curveballs and I I really am concerned cuz that's a

[1:14:17] lot yeah so I would say you know just with our three big goals one of which we

[1:14:23] have to have those meetings i'd say if we address these even mildly successfully you know a lot of your

[1:14:30] concerns go away i also think to your point with you know vision getting back

[1:14:35] to the purpose and what mayor hlin mentioned of you know the vision of

[1:14:40] Edina you know that's like the root why so like if all this stuff can be

[1:14:46] oriented where you know collectively it's aiming toward what we want to

[1:14:51] achieve I I think there will be more unity of outcomes too so but it starts

[1:14:58] with like there's mass complexity and duplication of things and we're not ma we're not making things as efficient for

[1:15:05] our residents ourselves or you as much as they could be so that's that other backend thing that we need to focus on

[1:15:13] and you know maybe we'll propose some changes on the side too for your consideration

[1:15:20] i know she has a list of feedback but maybe we can provide a list of here are potential efficiencies of just the

[1:15:28] planning commission process the public hearing process outside of just the code because

[1:15:34] some of it is process some of it is culture

[1:15:40] i think it's a good ide

[1:15:45] size that's I don't think we ever did that no we did church the sign code that

[1:15:53] you're talking the sign code yeah so every time someone comes who's building on Highway 100 like everywhere else in

[1:16:00] Highway 100 we have a a sign there's a size allowed for signs in any Dina there

[1:16:05] isn't this Highway 100 it's okay to have a sign that you can tell what the building is so that's that's my long

[1:16:11] term it's a small thing but but to make it uniform with our with our neighbors so that um those property owners can

[1:16:17] compete with with the other cities i love ASA Bay so I'd like to see the sign

[1:16:23] you know I saw the sign so I'm I'm in support of that um I do want to just wrap up like our

[1:16:30] stuff if you guys have anything else I just want to thank the planning commission members who are here tonight the ones who can't be here i feel like

[1:16:37] each year the commission is just getting better and more diverse in background and

[1:16:42] perspective thank staff for all their hard work putting this together and supporting us and what you guys

[1:16:49] do making it happen you like your cake

[1:16:54] it just reminded me of that old joke about you know what the N stands for

[1:17:04] that is Okay that is good i think you need to get to your next meeting um you will see

[1:17:11] some of these individuals come back in September no October with work plan proposals excellent thank you thank you

[1:17:19] thank you