Do you see they're having session? Oh, will I? >> Okay. >> All right. Calling to order the October 7th, 2025 meeting of the Lone Lake City Council. Good evening, everyone. It's 6:32 p.m. All council members are present this evening in person with the exception of Council Member Newcomer, who is joining us remotely. With that, let's do move on to item two, the pledge of >> allegiance. Please join me. All right, with that we'll move on to item three, mayor's comments, lawnmic news, meeting review and updates. Just a couple meeting review items tonight. We just finished a city council work session where we had two items on the agenda. One was to review a city administrator mentoring proposal uh from David Brown associate. So we just received some information from staff on that. And then the second item was a closed session regarding um training client privilege discussion of open litigation related related to the fire services contracts and having a discussion about that. Um, and then besides um that just uh went attended a great event last week uh the annual Minnesota Mayors Association fall meetup that was in at the University of Minnesota landscape arburetum and had a good group of mayors from across the state attend that. We had a guest speaker discussed from the state who discussed um conflict resolution in kind of city council you know settings whether it be with the inter council um in disputes or with uh those from the public that are uh you know speaking public comments or things like that. So that was informative and luckily we haven't had many if any issues with that here and what a great resource the landscape arburum is. I haven't spent a lot of time in recent years kind of a tour of that and really a lot of great things going on down there. So definitely get down and check out the landscape arburum if you haven't been there. It's going to be growing and growing in their programming. a couple updates there. Um, oh, and then last night was the LE Fire Department fire prevention open house, their annual event. So, I attended that great event. Uh, good turnout from uh all firefighters had all their equipment out and trucks and given the fire truck rides and different different demos and exhibits and things like that. I spoke to a lot of firefighters there. So, thanks to the fire department for putting that on and it's kind of a public safety teaching event for community members to learn things about fire safety and always a great event. A couple updates there on what's been occurring uh in some city city worlds in last or last couple weeks. Uh with that, move on to item four, which is to approve this evening's agenda. I'll point out that we are going to be joined this evening by Councilman, I'm sorry, Senator Johnson Stewart and she told me she's running a little bit late. So, she'll probably be here closer to seven. So, more than likely we'll have to just shuffle around item and do items B and C before we get to item A. But I don't think we need to actually do any kind of formal motion on that. It's just just a little. So, so with that in mind, >> make a motion to approve that agenda. >> I'll second. >> All right. Thank you. Motion and a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Council Feldman. Council member Dick. >> Hi. >> And I >> I >> and council member newcomer. >> Hi. >> Thank you. Okay. Item five, consent agenda. Just items A through C on the cons consent agenda. And then we also did have a new um new addition that was given to us just earlier today. And that is going to become item 5D on the consent agenda, which is motion accept the resation of that from the position of public works maintenance worker one for the city of Long Lake. So, we should have that in front of them. So, um I I will make a motion to approve this evening's consent agenda with adding this item 5D to the consent agenda. Second. >> Thank you. Motion and a second. Any further discussion or questions for staff? All right. All those in favor signify by saying I. Council member Feldman. Hi. >> Hi. >> I member. >> Hi. >> All right. And council newcomer. >> Thank you. All right. Motion passes unanimously. Item six, open correspondence. Open correspondence is an item on the agenda during which the public may address the city council. No formal actions taken by the city council and comments should be limited to five minutes or less. And open correspondence to email to city staff by noon on the date of the meeting. And good evening. We have someone for open correspondence. Please state your name and address. >> Thank you very much for having me. Mayor and member I um am here on Jane Davidson. I live at 10.0 Long Lake Road uh here in Long Lake and but I'm here tonight on behalf of the Long Lake Waters Association which is a nonprofit that was formed in 2017 and our mission is to um in collaboration with the cities of Long Lake, Madina and Orno and water district to foster uh clean water and the long subh of the creek larger watered and we've been working very diligently on getting a funding for a um planning um of what to do about our waters and the water which you probably are aware severely degraded. Um the long long lake itself uh since I moved here in 2012 has moved from a lake C grading to lake grading. Um and so it's really time for some projects and the mini water district has started working on their long range plan and doing some feasibility studies for projects in long and they're hopefully going to start on a smaller project and pond but we're seeing continued degradation of the lake long lake is has, you know, over 100 members um from the community, some who live on lakes, some who do not. And we're receiving a number of emails from those members asking for additional information, asking what kind of action plan is taking place. And even though many people has met with the city particularly I think um Todd um newcomer came to represent the city as leaders association and we were there um but that's a relatively small group and so Long Lake Waters has organized a community meeting that will be held on Tuesday October 28th. It will we originally scheduled it on the 21st but when we We had a city council meeting, we changed it, so we hope they come. Um it will be held in the city hall. Um large meeting area so to accommodate a number of people. Um from about 5 to 5:30 we'll have social hour, give people a chance to congregate, meet their neighbors. And then at 5:30 we have a presentation by the new project manager at Mini High Creek District who oversee the projects in this um to give us an overview of what the state of the water quality is, provide some data hopefully. Um and then move on to what kind of project they believe based on their planning is most efficacious to clean up the water over the long period of time. Give you an update on that. But I think that primarily this is an opportunity for citizens to come and have a conversation with um the leaders of the various communities and the many watershed district to voice their concerns, ask questions. Um and so it should be a very informative meeting and we here tonight to encourage you to come if you would like to have the mayor there possible but all the city council members I know you have to make some kind of arrangements to Um, I'm hoping that we can do that. Um, and so that's really my mission. We're putting out the word. I know J is probably going to put it on the lister. U we're doing mass mailings. You'll see signs out on the street. We're hoping to get a good turnout. So, I've left you some of the flyers. Um, and then has additional copies. So, thank you. Thank you. Janette, can you get that notice? >> We get that notice for council for notice. >> Oh, yes. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> So, thanks Jane for coming. >> So, that's an interesting picture. >> Yeah. Very pleasant looking. >> Is that what you were referring to with the green color? >> I got videos. I can show you. All right. Looks very good. So try to make that up if I'm available as well and and uh hope others can can join. All right, with that we will move on to items regular business item seven and why don't we start with 7B rescheduled November 20 or no November 4th 2025 city council meeting. You want to kick this one off? >> Certainly Mayor thank you. Um Tuesday, November 4th is the Is there general election day in Minnesota? And although we as a city don't have any elections um because it is an election day in Minnesota static requires that um our meetings be rescheduled to set up public meetings on the next election. So um with that we are recommending the council make a motion to reschedule that regularly scheduled meeting to either Monday, November 3rd or Wednesday, November 5th. >> All right. Anyone have any conflict from that Monday or Wednesday? >> I prefer Monday. >> All right, we got a vote for Monday. That works with me. No conflicts to my end. >> Monday, November 3rd >> or Wednesday, November 5th? >> The third. Okay. Council member newcomer. Monday the 3rd. Those aren't usually on Mon. That's probably on the third. I don't think those usually I think they're usually on Mondays, but they're usually um Yeah, that's a good point. What time do they start at five o'clock? >> No, they're usually on Wednesday. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I was thinking I was thinking the leaf association. My apologies. Okay. So, that's usually at >> usually at four o'clock. >> Okay. So, that shouldn't that won't affect it then. All right. Do you want to make a motion for Monday then, John, or? >> Yeah, I'll make a motion to reschedule our November 4th, 2025 city council meeting to November 3rd, 2025. All right, I'll second that. We'll send the second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? I >> Demick I I coun. All right, that passes unanimously. Monday the 3 it is. Thank you. >> All right, and we will move on to item 7 C approve proposal from I work Q system inc for an e- permitting software application. Again, >> thank you mayor. Um I have been looking into Um well I think in general we've been recognizing that we need to start embracing technology and efficiency educating to the best of our ability while looking for costefficient ways to do that. And I've really been spending kind of the last two years soliciting quotes and looking into various permitting um solutions. And as I was reaching out to them, oftentimes the quotes came back a little bit discouragingly high. And then uh while I was in the middle of researching some of these and um in some cases quoting them more than once, hoping I might get better results with a different representative. You never know. Um I actually was contacted by I work um I work Systems Inc. Um they are geared a little bit more towards smaller to medium cities and jurisdictions, but they have a varable very comparable permitting application um that I I was really very impressed with. And this has actually been kind of a longer negotiation process than you might realize because um in order to try to um achieve some even more advantages of pricing, I also had connected them with Metro West inspection services to see if maybe they would be able to be a solution for all of their cities. They did walk down that path. um Metro West inspections, you know, a lot of other cities just weren't quite ready to make the leap. Um but we especially with our location in such proximity to the metro, I I am getting demand for e- permitting and a more um a a stronger more secure uh online, you know, e payment system all the time. Uh there used to be a time where the contractors were saying, "Oh, you know, I'm really glad you haven't switched from paper. Now the contractors are saying, "When are you going to get an online system?" Because a lot of them are even doing it from their phone for things like roofs and window replacements. You know, the the quick quicker and easier permits. Um so um although Metro West didn't move forward um our continued negotiations with IWork were fruitful and they came back with a quote for 4500 a year for the first three years. No limit on the number of users which was a little unique because some of the other permitting solutions we looked into had caps on you know five users for you know 13,500 a year. Well, in our particular situation when we use contact inspectors and uh you know myself it's you know if we want our planning consultants to be able to look at applications as well and review plans that becomes a lot of users. Um so to have one with unlimited users like that for a small municipality at a reasonable fee was really a very pleasant uh pleasant surprise. Um there would be a onetime 3000 setup and training fee um for the first three year period. Uh the pricing proposal indicates that service fees can increase in subsequent years but would not increase more than 5% per year. Fortunately, although this is verbal and not in a document, um the sales representatives that I've been working with as well as um one of the technical support team that I've been asking questions of um both shared that in their very long time history with the company, they had not found a reason with smaller municipalities to actually need to increase that. So that was a pleasant development. Um the software would allow us to um take building funding and HVAC permits online but also would be able to use be used for some of our other permits like accessory structures more than likely rightway permits and sign permits as we uh you know continue to explore the functionality to make the most of it. Um, it's really I I've seen a lot of demonstrations now and I've looked at a lot of other municipalities portals. There's a lot of customization available. Um, there's some great reporting functions that are available that are going to that would save me from a lot of monthly spreadsheets and submission to the county because the county could actually log in and just receive the data. In fact, the um residential assessor that we worked with I works when he was working with the city of Shwood and had a very positive experience with it. He said it's really easy to navigate and um I contacted a couple of cities, Sherwood, Elco, New Market. Um, I actually uh spoke to lawn sale as well after I submitted this report just to kind of ask them about their experiences um their impressions of the software um if there were any uh let the buyer beware costumes that they might be able to share with me behind the scenes. And I did not tell I work I would be looking into that. I just kind of did a little googling myself and I was um really uh pleased to receive nothing but positive feedback. Um it it very positive actually. Um Sherwood was one example. They've actually been an IWAR client for a number of years now. Um they really like the userfriendly features of it. customize it like um for instance like you said if it's used for like um sign signage would have be on it and would it have to kind of could you customize it so it could look or does it have to be either unfortunately given our technical situation this evening I I wish I was able to bring up an example portal and show it to you. It kind of follows a bit of a standard format um where you might have um like a a top section that would be searching for permit history. You could search by permit number, by address, by date range, by contractor, um number of different search criteria. They are um as part of the setup fee, they would be able to incorporate my spreadsheet of permit records for this year for 2025. So we'd be looking at 2025 data and forward. Um we each section can be customized in like the language that you have and the link that you have. I I think ultimately a lot of it, you know, we might link back to our website in the building permit section like a standard electronic application form link to the left if we can envision that and then a series of links in the middle and some instructions and those links will be to handouts that help inform design and then at right just you know few more instructions like a you know one through four kind of thing. Um, and I think I'm envisioning, in fact, I've already been working a little bit on layout because I'm optimistic and overly excited to be quite honest with you. Um, I'm envisioning that we would lay it out with permit search right up top followed by a building permit application, a plumbing and Hback application, and then um zoning and other permits. And we might be able to take it even further than I'm aware of, but I start to see more and more of the form template, you know, I I'll have a better idea just how far we can really do it. Um, this also rolls in um an e payment solution as well. So, that's wonderful. Um, our inspectors would be scheduling inspections through it. You can issue permit cards through it. And the cool part about the permit cards is that they can be printed and it includes a QR code specific to the permit that's been issued. So when our inspectors out in the field, he can just take his tablet, scan that QR code from the permit, and bring up all the information uh from the permit card and the plan sets and all the links. It'll all be right there for him. So there's some really cool impressive features um when you're looking at a solution for a city of our size. Um, in uh visiting with them to um in part probably because I was trying to make the Metro West connection, the standard contract offers 100 gigs of storage and they um rolled in an extra 100 gigs at no additional charge. Thanks for question. So if the contract were to after three years you decide to go with a different firm maybe for whatever reason the data is ours. data >> standardized format. >> The data is our data. >> We would have it. Um >> you'd have to port it. You could port it somewhere else. >> We we could Yep. And and there are a number of different varieties in which they're willing to provide that data. But as long as and that was one reason why um ultimately I at first I was kind of considering Metro West version but it was actually under that contract because it was going to be serviced in so many different cities. It wasn't going to have quite as many customized features and all the other permits and all the specific links that I think are relevant to permit issuance and help inform project design and application. Um yeah, it's it's a surprisingly thorough solution for our small city beginning to end. Um has some financial reporting features as well as permit activity reporting. Metro West is already using it um with City of Lawn Scale is one of our customers. So they've already had a little bit of familiarity with it. At the end of the day, I think we wanted more customization than what a group solution was going to offer. And a lot of their cities weren't weren't quite ready to make the leap. >> General modernization, but it's like how can you estimate how many hours a week this would save you? >> Oh my goodness. >> Um I I think it would surprise me. Um, just to provide an example because this is this is a good way to make this relatable. Uh, right now if I have some if I have a contractor or homeowner email me a permit, I have to print out the permit, calculate the permit fee, then I have to calculate what the permit fee would be in addition to the 2.95% credit card transaction fee. I have to send them an email and say, "Okay, you know, here here is your permit fee. Uh this is what would be due with a credit card transaction fee attached to the credit card authorization form. They can take that credit card authorization form. They email it back to me. I have to print it. I have to manually enter that in to PSN, our payment service network. I take a receipt. I assign the permit number, scan in the permit, send it to them, make a couple copies for our inspector for here, there, and everywhere. And that's a typical permit transaction for something like a RERO. >> And then you put it in a drawer. >> And then I put it in a drawer. I put it in a property file. And then I have to wait until eventually I get it back with an inspection report at which point I've, you know, already entered it into a spreadsheet. Then I update the status on it. >> So it's more than three hours a week. >> Oh yes. >> So it pays for itself. >> Yes. Actually, it I find it fascinating because I think of like a basic reboot permit and it would result all of that backing and forcing to essentially receive click ready for accepting payment. >> Done. >> And then you have a record of it. People can check it. um the entire process >> and and as time goes on um and we accumulate more data and more permit history, it's also really going to help with we constantly get calls from insurance agents or potential home buyers asking about a permit history on a property when there was a re-roof done. So, the more years of permit history you have available online, >> they're always looking to your website first. In fact, that's what they do. They call me and I looked on your website. I can't find permits. Can you tell me where to find them? I apologize. Let me grab the file for you. >> Um, it also um involves incorporating GIS data for our partials in Long Lake, which means that we can't receive applications for Orino and Madina. We turn away I turn away probably three to five of those a week because of the zip code. And I turned away two today. >> My mailman. Wow. Long way. Another another um benefit as well is it's cloud based and so right now is the only person in the office that does permitting. So some of our vendors right now if if she's ill or takes >> an hour off and they can't get a permit a little angry and sort of alleviate that issue >> and then again the data is oursized for that we can >> so I I have been so impressed with it. I've been working with them for months. Um, they haven't I actually kind of wondered when I came back with them after all of this time had passed and talking with Metro West and I wondered if I'd come back, you know, a couple months later and they'd be like, maybe we're going to readjust that and bring that contract fee up. They didn't. They held to the original quote and then offered me an extra $100 storage. So, I I'm pleased um and the feedback from the folks that I spoke with as references um praised their customer support and said that um the product the application is continuing to be updated and there's little improvements all the time and that was nice to hear. So it means I'm not just buying a static product and I will make um a comment as far as funding. Correct me if I'm wrong. Um Janette has worked out with them that we could pay the $3,000 setup fee in the 2025 budget year. I ver said that the line item currently has $2,500 remaining in that line item to use. So the 3,000 would come out of the 2025 budget and then I would just properly budget for additional software of the 4500 in 2026. The um budget impact that this would have would be $500. They also said that um even though we wouldn't necessarily pay our first year of operation until the 2026 year if we chose, if we're ready to go, we can still move on. So you not going to hold us up for that. They understand they seem to have a solid awareness of the needs of small cities. I find that nothing I've thrown at them has been a curveball. Um that that's been nice to hear. >> So, was this in the budget like the 4500? >> It was not. It was not. We um I just got lucky that $2,500 remaining in the budget. And so when Janette when Janette was looking into this um we were looking to make it fiscally responsible. And as soon as we were able to do the 3,000 setup fee this year, I said that would work out really well because like I said, we we are coming in a little under budget for software expenses for 2025. So that is product. >> All right, great. Anyone make a motion on this one? Make a motion to approve the pricing proposal for I work system incident community development and permitting software solutions. Please execute an agreement for high work and services. I'll second that. All right. Thank you. Any further discussion? All right. All those in favor council member Feldman. >> Hi, Council Member Dick. >> Hi. >> And I council >> and council member newcomer. >> Thank you. All right. It passes unanimously. Great. Thank for your hard research on that. I'm glad you found a fit that you're happy about and it's certainly reasonably priced as compared to all or most of their competitors here. It looks like >> Well, it looks like you're going to be too. >> Yeah. And that that's the thing is, you know, this that permit transaction process I described. I can It's hard to quantify because you never know in a week if you're going to get five permits or if you're going to get 10 to 15. Oh my goodness. I can I I have a feeling that I'm gonna, you know, get to the end of a busy, you know, regrouping cycle as you get into fall and I'm gonna be like, "Wow, h how that was so much easier than last year." And it's a really great time to be working on implementing it with an election year next year. It's going to be like just a really great way to start making the most of our time and um speeding up the transaction for our customers um and making it more efficient and more secure. I think they're going to be thrilled. So, I'm happy that uh and thankful for the company support and and letting us move forward with this. I know it wasn't a budgeted activity, but I think it's it's going to make a very positive change. >> Great. I agree. That's great. All right, let's move on to item 7D. It's really brief, but fire department transition future fire service update. So, we joint powers agreement for future fire department that we hope to have begin service on January 1st and tied to that our lease agreement for the use of the fire stations. Um so our our attorneys and staff continue to work on those and work out nuances and as I said before both cities are trying their best to make sure that you know there's a nice um you know, going to be for 20 or 30 years. We need to have nice rock solid language to protect both cities for that long. So, that's why it's taking some time, but it's very productive and going everything's going in the in the right direction. So, um, anyone else have any comments they want to make about that? Very much a lot of work going on in the last couple weeks. We've had a lot of discussions going on. So, very positive just uh these things take time. just want to thank the council members that have been involved in the negotiations because I think it's taken a lot of time. So, I really appreciate all of that and I'm glad it came before the full council in the work session. So, seems like a lot of work. Um, but it's nice to see the not the end product but >> close to the end. >> Close the end. >> Thank you. All right. So, we'll wrap that one up and you're hearing quite yet. So, why don't we move on eight other council member Dick? >> I don't have either. >> Banners. Nothing banners. decorations. >> We need to get moving on banners, but you're going to have something for this next summer. >> I do. Um I was presented with a local vendor. He has given me a sample of some vendors that I apologize banners that his company does. Um and so I do have his information a little bit Right. But we need >> correct and um city before whether it's community art. Um that might some funds might be able to cover the banners like I know we talked about uh submissions like a contest of some sort >> even to the grade schools like through an artery year but Do we have how much that reduces the overall usage? I I just don't all I'icot. I don't know if that's something that we should talk about before. >> We've brought that up a couple of times now to start. >> Yeah. And that's not the only part of it. >> That was tough. I get the impression that one, at least for now, is a little more on the cost prohibitive side. >> Um, doesn't mean we can't ask Sean if he wants to look into it again a little further. Um, we can certainly bring the subjects up again and see what he has to say. >> And as as like our street sweeper goes, is there some amount of collection that that does or is it does it all ultimately end up in the storm water as well? I'm not certain on that. We'd hope to have that a little bit. >> Yeah, I think they I believe he dumps it back at city hall and then takes it away from there somehow and helping with our with you know he's out there on that quite frequently at least in my neighborhood. Got a measurement of helping but and maybe there's some partnership now that we've you know good good relations with Orno. Maybe there's, you know, some maybe we could partner on that and pay pay them. >> Yeah. Oh, I'm just talking about the Brian the Brian. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just for some streets or something. There's a lot of possibilities because they have the hardware there and if there's a multiaceted set of solutions that might somehow bra. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good one. Did we did we finish the flag? conversation or >> I have no I will get back to you information on that. I actually have more information on that already about that one. >> Okay, great. All right, why don't we put a pause to other business then and we'll come back to that in in a minute because we have our our distinguished guest here. So, good evening, Senator. >> And we'll move on to item 7A, which is legislative upage by Senator Anne Johnson Stewart of Senate District 45. >> Welcome. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks, Charlie. >> Well, I decided to go to church weekends, which is a big mistake. >> I was supposed to have a conflict and then the conflict got cancelled, so my good conscience got the best of me. So, here I am. Um, I do have many presentations I can give. Uh, I think Caroline sent you something. Otherwise, I'm happy just to give you an update and answer questions. That's typically what I do. But I can I have locks in my pocket. >> I actually did not receive any presentations. >> Oh, so if you'd like to >> Well, let me ask this. What are you guys interested in? Um, I am prepared. I'm just not loaded up. But I can give you what I gave Excelsier City Council last night. Um, what I presented at EP Haven recently. I talked for an hour and a half on property taxes. So that could be I've also talked about bonding. Um, and I don't really need a presentation. I'm happy to just converse if you're okay with that. >> Yeah, that sounds good. I think we brainstormed some ideas of the perilin and just the the roads is a frequent topic but which is related the bonding and then yeah so we want to address about property taxes um I know you know and the senator does a good job about putting together has put together a group of mayors we meet on regular basis monthly or so you know hot topics there like ebikes and thank goodness that's hasn't been a really big issue in our our community but almost everything else that you know is brought up by other communities in your district are, you know, an issue here with um the water quality issues. So, we we got a banner. Our our dean behind us gave us this banner of or this uh photograph of our lake and former University. >> Dr. Davidson and I built a house together on the Washington Mall. >> Oh my gosh. Matter that or remember that. That was um 16 years ago. So, >> wow. Wow. >> So am I. And I'm still teaching at the university. So that was part of a solar competition with the department of energy and she brings huge expertise in that area. And so I'm happy to see you again. >> Yeah. Um are you still in >> Dina now? [Music] Anyway, well, here's what I will I'll just give you a brief update and then um as boy, you had two college professors come talk to you tonight. Boy, this could have gone into five or six hours, right? But um it won't. All right, so here's what I will just tell you. Um Senate District uh 45 of course includes Long Lake and I was just recently elected as your senator last November during a special election. I don't know how long your terms have been, but um Tony Morrison of course resigned to run for Congress and then I was elected uh just about a year ago. So our Senate district includes 15 cities including Long Lake Orno, etc. Pretty definitely any lake any community that touches Lake Minnotonka plus St. Bonafacious. So we go all the way out to the western border of Henipin County. Uh so that includes Minat Christa and all the cities between here and there. Um half of Minnetonka. So my husband and I live north of 394 in Minnetonka. So the the north half north of Highway 7 is in our Senate district and then the south uh half is in Senator Squadsky's district. So, as Charlie said, we have uh 15 uh communities that are represented. And one of the things that I felt was really important because we have such diversity of size, you know, um Greenwood has what 600 I think Manitaka Beach has 700. Uh the a lot of these communities are very um small geographically with a very large kind of property tax base. And so property taxes are one of the issues that the mayors and I work on. But what I thought was really important especially around infrastructure. So that's kind of my my big thing. I'm a civil engineer and really that's why I ran for Senate was to advocate for infrastructure. But what happens in some of these very small communities that share infrastructure because of the way our region was developed is they get kind of the short end of the stick when it comes to funding opportunities and resources. So I just I mean honestly Long Lake has pretty good um water and sewer. I know that you guys are putting in a with uh in contrast to some of the other communities. You guys are in pretty good shape. I remember last year when I was door knockocking, you were lining some of your pipes just south of here with cured in place pipe and I know you're doing some of your roads, but I uh Charlie and I have talked over your bonding requests this year and we're strategizing on how best to position uh Long Lake to get some of those bonding dollars uh and also through the local roads program. So, um let's see. Some of the other issues that we're working on with the mayors are, as Charlie said, ebikes, which is actually a pretty big deal in the communities that we have where there's a core downtown like Weisetta and um Excelsier, and there's a lot of terrorism on the wheels at in the evenings. And so, we're just working on issues related to speed and regulation around ebikes. Really, property taxes is a pretty big deal. Um as uh communities are struggling with assessments and who does their assessments, this becomes um a stress on them, especially in communities that are more adjacent to the lake. Do you have communities or houses that are on Lake Minnetonka? >> Yes. About 15 plus homes on the lake. >> And then you also have them on Long Lake, of course. >> Well, that's on Long Lake. >> Oh, but you don't have any on Lake Mitaka, right? Yeah. I didn't think so. or know kind of cuts you off, but so um this is an issue not just in our district and we're trying to make it more of a statewide issue and partnering with communities in Brainard and Duth even and some of those other places. So, property taxes are an issue, not just the rise in property taxes, but how we might be able to provide relief to longtime homeowners that are getting priced out of their homes and also how we can um get a handle on the assessment and fair assessment. >> Can I ask a question because you're at the state level and the property taxes are coming from the local level. How what can you do in the state to kind of control property taxes? >> Well, the state paying for a box and pay their property taxes. >> So, individual counties are empowered to do assessments a specific way. And so, um, Charlie, you'll have to jump in and help me. You guys, do you do your own assessing or do you use county recently? >> So, Henipin County has been empowered to take over all of the communities in Henipin County. Um, so that's an empowerment that comes from the state. Uh but then what they actually wanted us to do was require not just empower but require individual communities to hand over their assessment to Henipin County which was a problem for some communities like Minnetonka, Greenwood, etc. They didn't want to do that. They want to keep their own assessors. So >> question is that good better to have Hannah County do it? Is that because you think it's going to be a level playing field or is it going to will it be better to have it done at the local level? >> Well, it depends. Some communities want it done at the local community level, which you know, Long Lake, you guys have made your decision on that. The reason have the reason that some communities don't want it done at the local level is because they feel like their assessors are more familiar with their housing stock and more familiar with their homes in general. So they feel like Henipin County is a little bit out of out of touch and so they might overvalue some of the homes in their neighborhoods. Now the challenge though becomes that Henipin County already assesses for that service. And so if a city like um Minnetonka wants to do its own assessment where the state comes in is that I live in Minnetonka now am I paying twice? I'm paying Henipin County to not assess my property and I'm paying Minnetonka to assess my property. I'm still paying twice. And so the cities have to ask for states or the cities wanted to block Henipin County's requirement that indivi that each city goes through them for their assessment. So the way it the way it is right now I think Charlie is the counties each can assess can um Minnotonka this is not fair because Minnetonka then gets double you know in effect pays twice for assessment on each house. One that it doesn't do and one that it does do. So it's an individual I feel like it's something that cities should be allowed to do individually and decide what's best for them. a city like Greenwood, they have a very well Tom Fletcher there, mayor, feels like they have very um unique housing stock, which they do. Um Deep Haven is another very unique community, Minnetonka Beach. You know, a lot of these communities have unique properties where you could be driving down the road and there's, you know, a little cottage that was built in 1935 and has a very small square footage and then right next door is a 8,000 square foot mansion. if this house sells for $5 million, you know, how much does it really impact the price of this house right next door? And so they want to retain that control. >> So what are they doing in the state? Because I know they used to pay before this council. Um it was a the price of having Hen County do it was a lot cheaper. >> It was zero. >> It was zero. So that was very attractive. I think it's assessed based on number of comm I don't know how that charge happens but I know it was not free for Minnetonka Minnetonka Edina St. Louis Park Bloomington I think these are some of the communities that are pushing back you guys have a small population and maybe you know everything in state government has a formula so and I'm just not familiar with what that formula was trust that you guys again if you want to bring it up later but I would trust that for Long Lake and for other communities of your size it's It's very well may be a great deal for you to have Henipin County do your assessment, which is the message that Henipin County made last year when they were trying to maintain this ability to assess every property in the uh in their own county and county. Again, this is not my area of expertise, but cities like Minnetonka said, "No, it's not a great deal. We don't want that." So that's where the state comes in and uh we got involved with legislation. I'm sure it'll come again. Uh we kind of tabled it until this next legislative session. But the other areas around property tax reform have to do with relief for um you know older homeowners, relief for people whose property taxes maybe go up a certain amount in a short period. for people whose property tax goes up a certain percentage in a short period. Those kinds of things are all things we can do at the state level through the tax committee to provide um tax relief for people that live in this district. And like I said, we're trying to expand it to include other areas that have been, you know, downtown Minneapolis, areas around lakes, Lynen Hills, etc. Edina, those are some other areas where people might not have done anything to their home and yet they double in value even over just you know a few years. So it's really a hardship on on some people. >> Yeah. >> And then there's other things we can do at the state level around um deductions and tax relief etc. So property tax is a big deal and luckily we have several mayors who are uh come to that issue from a professional perspective. That was what they did in their jobs either before they retired or are currently involved. And so I think we're well represented in working on those issues from a regional perspective. So ebikes and property tax and what else are we working on? >> Um water quality encourages to >> Yep. water quality invasive species. Uh I teach in the University of Minnesota's uh department of civil engineering where we're doing a lot of research on wakeboats and invasive species. I kind of tabled that issue. Um, frankly, it's pretty contentious and I think that the the areas that we want to focus on take priority. It's really, um, you know, as the only civil engineer, I get a lot of, um, requests to cover things really specific to infrastructure and things around like property surveys and land monuments and septic tanks and pavement and all of that's really important. Regionally, there's another issue that's very important, which housing and I did your city council follow the missing middle bill and housing legislation that was up this year >> about the missing middle one that that's not the one has to do with >> that's the one that we just voted down yeah it was called the missing middle because um there's a a very big need for middle inome housing and we had a bunch of bills that were before us over the last two years two years ago before I was back in the Senate. Um those those were voted down. So they were extremely um directed directive to all communities across the state kind of at like with a broad stroke of what they have to do in order to accommodate more affordable housing. So then that was voted down two years ago and then this year we received another slate of bills that had been tweaked but still many of the mayors especially in our Senate district were opposed to them because they were >> local zoning preeemption. >> Yeah. Lots of local zoning preemption without money for cities to figure out how to fit these new zoning requirements into their um statutes and their policies. Also, um many just I was on that committee that had to vote that that chose to vote that down. I won't say had, but a lot of the issues relate to um accessory dwelling units to multifamily housing which just really doesn't fit many of our communities like Tonka Bay, Minotaa Beach, Deep Haven, etc. where there really isn't an opportunity to build multifamily housing and yet there are some requirements in this legislation that would require that. Also, some communities like Minnitonka Beach, every single every single house in that um city is within 200 feet of Lake Minnetonka. And so some of those zoning requirements were in direct conflict with DNR allowances. And so because of that, there was just a a lot of problems for our cities. And now the mayors with leadership from city of Minnotonka are looking at putting together a package of more palatable I would say more reasonable again that's a judgment on my part but more reasonable zoning um changes that might be more from a regional approach. So for example in city of Weisetta there recently was some development that had to do with building some multif family housing apartments and based on the funding. So to your question uh is it cavail? >> Oh sorry I guess I knew that but I I forgot. Anyway, um the the state has some funding options that help cities develop, you know, tiff increment funding and or tax increment funding or or financing or some other ways that the state can get involved with some of the money for doing some of these developments. With that money comes some requirements. And so in the city of Weisetta, for example, there was some requirements to develop a certain number of affordable housing units, which just isn't reasonable in Weisetta because every, you know, square foot of land that they build anything on is extremely expensive. And so Mayor Mullen worked with city of Plymouth to do some creative financing. I'm not sure what he did, but he was able to um negotiate what's I think it was five times as many units for the same price because they were built in Plymouth. And so there is some work like that that we can do. Um which addresses the reality that some neighborhoods just based on where they are, it's just not reasonable to build affordable housing. But very close by, Plymouth for example, or for you guys, I would say Maple Plane is probably much more affordable. I don't know. Is Long Lake What are your housing? >> We do have um some kind of as you said the middle. >> We have middle. >> Yeah, you do. I know. I knocked all around here and there some very nice but smaller what I would consider to be affordable units. We're also fully developed and that to me is there's a couple of struggles with these local zoning stamps and bills. First of all, cities there are a lot of cities like Long Lake. We are developed. not have vacant land. So to impose a housing goal upon a community that's fully developed essentially implies that you're going to take housing away to put up more housing. That's not reasonable. Um and and additionally those housing goals again in a fully developed community, we're not necessarily prepared to add that kind of density to our infrastructure. Um you know the community was built as a small town. um adding 500 units of residential is we're already in a position actually where we're looking at sanitary sewer lining projects for essentially almost the whole town because >> our our ini is rising rapidly and there's a cost with that >> council bills or yes so the local zoning preeemption bills like you know I I just I continue to feel like one thing that I really wished um got across a little better is one size does not fit all in the metropolitan area. Uh what applies to Vinnie Dino does not apply here >> or what applies to downtown mini or northeast Minneapolis or South St. Paul etc. Yeah. Well, we just >> when they do developments too, I think sometimes the houses that they're taking away are going to be more of your affordable houses, >> right? um to build multi-unit complexes which may not necessarily be affordable. I think sometimes big development does take away what we're trying >> and who profits from that like sometimes I wonder who profits from that >> the developers. >> Yeah. >> I totally agree. So we're in the middle of doing the bonding tours right now. In fact, tomorrow morning we leave for Grand Marray. So the bonding tours are where the bonding committee members get on a bus and we go visit and um I need to talk about bonding tours. So, something has to remind me of that. >> Um, we recently were down in Rochester where the city had a huge undeveloped block and they had very good housing staff and they had developed a proposal to add 565 units. That's a lot of housing. But the challenge was there was just one 30-inch sewer pipe going to this property and one um I don't even want to say what size a very small water man because it used to be one house, right? And so um one of the things that I'm working on is expanding. We have a fund to accommodate that kind of thing. Uh because I think that's exactly what we're looking for where there's an empty space and somebody wants to develop it. That's a great opportunity for mixeduse multifamily and this was affordable housing. Um, but the city of Rochester just couldn't afford that infrastructure. Not just the sewer pipes, but also there's the roads too. So >> school who they have kids where the kids go to school. >> Yeah. I don't they didn't ask us for money on that because bonding. So let's talk about the bonding tour real briefly. So, bonding requests and you guys have yours in and um I think we're set to go once we adjust some numbers a little bit. Charlie and I just met about this on Monday. Um so, the bonding requests are coming in right now and bonding committees members are going out to tour these sites. Our bonding tour will be in the end at the end of October. And I just want you to know Long Lakes projects will not be on the bonding tour. However, I will talk about it in Minnetonka Beach. So, we have um we have already put in our request and I think I told Charlie this, but I want us to meet at Minnetonka Beach under the water tower project to highlight how much uh investment so many of our communities have already made in their infrastructure. Um the reality is the 15 communities in uh Senate District 45, we do not get very much bonding money. That's because there's this um >> formula. >> No, it's not a formula. It is a here's the money, here's the money. It is very a subjective, which is what I want to talk about. Um but it is because it's subjective. There might be an idea that well they don't need the money. They have a good property tax base or they have you know high income people who can afford it. But many of our communities, frankly, have put in a huge investment into their own infrastructure without any help from the state. We're going to highlight that at Minnotonka Beach. And uh we're going to try to showcase the fact that out here, it's not all the dollar mansions. I mean, I live in a one-story Rambler that we bought 30 years ago. I know Charlie lives in a house similar to mine because I door knocked there a couple years ago. goes right down the center by the church. It a lot of single family homes. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, we want to highlight that. Now, I just want you to know though, um just because you're not on the bonding tour doesn't mean anything. The bonding allocation turns out to be very subjective. And so, I told Excelsier City Hall or city council last night, when we get to that point in the session, which will be next May, do not give up. and I'll be communicating with my mayors to let them know who they have to call. Um, bond, there are two ways that the state can fund capital investment. And so the state can only fund through capital investment committee hard capital. So things like buildings and streets and pavement and um pipes and water towers, but they but and when I said buildings, they don't necessarily have to be um government buildings. We can fund nonprofit buildings as well, but it has to be something that is hard capital and or yeah a capital investment. Um we can choose to fund that in two ways. One is with general obligation bonds. So when we We're on the bonding tour or I'm on the bonding committee. Um when we choose to fund that this year we had $700 million as our budget from the governor and we are given categories of what we're allowed to fund. So this year we didn't do any local projects other than through the public facilities authority which is an agency program that Long Lake maybe maybe you guys could get some money through that. I'm not 100% sure, but um so this year we were able to bond bond 700 million with general obligation bonds, which by state law require a supermajority. So in a year where we choose to fund those projects with bonds, we have to get 60 votes in the Senate and we have to get 120 votes in the House. So that is this year we're going to get about 1.3 billion in bonds. So I think chances are good that we'll get money for all of our um communities and I'm going to work really hard on that. Um we will need to be pressuring Andrew Meyers and Patty Aim. Um you guys have Andrew, right? >> No. >> Yeah. So you'll need to be pressuring Andrew to make sure he votes for that bonding bill. I think he will, but I'm just telling you and you'll have to pressure me, but of course I'll vote for the bonding bill. Um, we also have an opportunity to to fund capital investment through cash. And you may remember in 2023 when we had that big 18 billion dollar surplus, like two billion of that went to capital investment cash. So, we have a huge uh backlog of communities just like yours who need help with their mostly water and sewer and streets. And so two billion dollars of that was funded through cash which only requires a simple majority. So hopefully we'll have some cash this year also in which case we can fund you know whatever is eligible and whatever we think won't get approved by a supermajority we can feel that out and cover that with cash. But that will happen next May and I'll make sure that Carly knows who you guys should be calling and putting the pressure on. You'll know if Long Lake is in the bonding bill and for how much. But it's an incredibly subjective thing. So pressuring >> will get the um the money. >> Yep. And pressuring Andrew Meyers who you know he is in he's a Republican in a Democratic district frankly. And so his party will want him to get reelected. He will they will want him to look good to his communities uh which is Mound, Minitrista, St. Bonnie, Long Lake, Orino, all those communities that typically would vote Republican. They want to keep him seated. And so just based on the true numbers thing, make sure we pressure Andrew to get We're going to leverage that, Charlie. >> Yeah. So general obligation bonds, uh what are what are the requirements around there? Like um in ter what are the terms for if you get some bonding money? Did the city pay a certain amount back? >> No, it's just gifted to you. It was my gift. >> Okay. >> So, there's other opportunities for funding. Um, as I said, you guys might we might we're going to explore the local roads program. Oh, I do have a presentation on that. Maybe I can just send it to you so I don't bore you with that. But we did look into um how we go about requesting money through the local roads program. Uh this year we put I don't know 47 million I think into local roads which you guys would be eligible for. So I can work with um Charlie and maybe Janette to get that application together. Um but that's just for roads. So we can't cover water and sewer with that. And then frankly most of the public facilities authority money is for treatment. And so your um bonding request is for distribution. It's for the pipes, not necessarily for the treatment. And so um PFA money wouldn't cover your distribution. So pipes have to be covered. Mostly pipes are covered by That's my phone dinging I think. >> Maybe not. >> Anyway, sorry. Um it doesn't bother me if it's not mine. Um so um distribution money we have to cover through um bonding. That's really our only way to do it. Two quick questions about that because I met with staff this afternoon to talk about our road requests and uh the um first one is would we be should we be duplicating efforts like is it okay to apply for both? Okay, perfect. >> And then is like we talked about our project we've estimated about $12 million for three or four streets. Is that is it better to have that large of a project or is it more make more sense to have a smaller carve out of that? Go bigger, bigger is better. >> So, I'll I'll uh counsel all of my mayors before we get to the bonding tour and we already went through your handout once. So, when So, you're asking for your project is 12.2 million, correct? Of which 500,000 can be covered through your pavement um maintenance. uh funding. So you've got 500,000. So that uh that's one way that the city can fund that 12.2 million in a bonding request. You're only it's it's not really a rule, but it is a standard practice that cities only should ask for half. And so I mentioned to Charlie that your request should be $6 million. Um and I'll explain that in a minute. I am very transparent about this. So, the secrets are about to be told. Um, because what happens if you ask for 6 million and you will be at the bonding tour, I hope, when we talk about that money, Senator Papus will ask, "Well, what other funding are you looking for?" And so, that's when you're going to say, "Well, we have 500,000 from our own that we've set aside. We're applying for local road money. Uh, the city does have a capacity to bond, which I'm guessing you do. You don't have to offer that up too wholeheartedly because be nice if I mean I'm going to leave that to you guys but that's one of your options as well and then um and then you're going to request six million. Now the reason I want you to ask for six million is because it is very less than half you're showing that you're asking for other money and if there's I just can't think of other funds that we could pry for >> there time period go ahead. So one concern the staff had was like we were asking for you know 12 million but if we >> you're not asking for 12 million >> right initially but so if we pay for six million that would be a that would be a bit of a financial struggle for us as well to do that one one set of um municipal bond you do bonding for that. So, would we be committing ourselves? Like, oh, great. Okay. No. So, then they'll say, so these are the questions. So, I'm already prepping you. Have you looked for other ways to fund this? Yes, we have 500,000 from our pavement management fund. We are applying for local road money, and we do have the capacity to bond. Well, how much do you have the capacity to bond? Then Charlie will say, well, you know, man, that's a that's a big ass for a city like Long Lake. Uh, I'm not sure we have that capacity. Then Sandy will Pap will say could you phase the project and we've already talked about this too. So then you will say yes we have this is for three or four streets whatever and we talk to our engineer that yeah we could do two streets if we get 2 million or 5 million or whatever. Um and we certainly are willing to do that. Who's your engineer? >> WSB. >> Yeah. So WSB knows how to fund. You know I think it would be cheaper in general if you do it all at once. This is what you should say. >> Is there any time limit that you have to use the money? >> Yeah, you do have to use it within Well, you guys have never gotten bonding money, but there is there are strings attached. You can't use it for design. So, don't ask for for it for design. You can only use it for capital investments. You can only use it for hard construction materials and construction activities. >> Quick question. So, if we were to phase it, we got um you said six million in initially and we did a couple roads. What are our chances of getting the next six million after? Never. You'll never get more. They will only fund up to half of a project. So, the way you'd have to be um and we saw this on the last bonding tour. We went to city of Tanhassen and I'm I'm I think this is good um intelligence telling my mayors this. Senator Papus actually and it is very subjective. This is a very powerful position for her to be able to say who gets what and we got back on the bus and she goes I can't believe they asked this for don't tell any can't asking people this. Okay. She's like I can't and I like being recorded. I don't care. >> She did say I can't believe that they asked this for money on the same project. Like it's a little bit perceived as a little bit inappropriate. like we already gave them three million for this project and then they invited us back. So we don't want that. We don't want that. So if you get that's I mean that's you know let's say you get $6 million. Don't get your hopes up. I don't really think you're going to get six million but we're going to ask for that and then you have to phase the project. I will help you. We'll figure it out but chances are very low that you're going to see money again for that same project. Um, now Long Lake might have another project. You know, Wisett Ia got four million for that Panaway project, the boardwalk out into the lake. They got money for that in 2020 20. >> Two or three years ago. >> It was actually, it wasn't 22 because I was there then, >> several years ago, and I actually think it was like 2018 or 2019. >> Now, then they asked for money for it again. And then, um, I don't think they'll ever give Tanaway money. So I'm working with Mayor Mullen to come up with well what's another project? I mean realistically city of Wisetta if they don't get money for that camera there in case you have any secret notes on your notepad there >> just says to follow up with Janette because I want to talk to you about housing. Um, so, um, if there again, Mayor Mullen is going to ask this time around. He does need more money to finish that waterfront, but he's going to ask for money for the police station because it's a different project. So, there's lots of strategies that we can use to get around it. I mean, you know, >> is not necessarily a want, >> it's more of a need. >> There's lots of needs out there. Lots. Yes, I hear you. >> Prioritizes the need. with a lot. >> Yeah. So, I I totally agree with you. Um when I when we negotiated the bombing the last session, the I will have to say very few wants made it through and I don't even know I honestly if we went through the list, which I'm happy to share with you, I'll send that your way. You can see what we funded last time. I would say none of them were wants in a year where they had $2 billion in cash. So the year I wasn't there, but Kelly was or Senator or Representative Morrison was there. They did do some wants things like um community >> panway. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So the panway would be a want. >> Yep. But just now we So I'll just reflect on the projects we just were on the southeast Minnesota tour. The vast majority of those projects were wastewater or water treatment. And that is a big need. And the reason that we're seeing so many of those requested through bonding is many, many communities had their wastewater treatment plants funded in the 70s with the Clean Water Act. And so now all of those facilities are 50 years old and they're all aging out together. So you see just um see a lot of kind of catching and making do and you just can't believe what some of these awesome maintenance staff are doing to extend the life of their wastewater treatment plants but a lot of them are just failing all together at the same time. So we are in a tough spot. Last year we um you guys you know in the metro area we don't really rely on the public facilities authority too much. Where do you guys how do you get your water here? Do you have like how many wells or >> two wells in? >> And do they have manganesees or anything in them? You just you don't have any? >> We do have some manganesees, but we're below the you know the EPA requirements right now or drinking water report doesn't have any alarming spikes anywhere. >> Well, that's good. So, knock on wood. >> You're lucky. But waste water treatment you guys don't really have to worry about because your waste is treated by Met Council. >> We do worry about it. >> We do worry about >> and and well and I council bills are unbelievable. >> But I mean you don't you're not responsible for building a plan. So certainly understand that >> and and I understand I and I and I understand >> why it's a problem for you. Um, but this year what we were able to do for those communities that god forbid you should I hope you never have to request money for that like mound with manganesees that's why their water is undrinkable undrinkable we'll say it that way but um there used to be a cap on how much they could ask for and then there was also um a limit to how much money was even in that fund. So there might be 600 800 communities on that list, but with the small amount of funding, we you know, you know, that money ran out quickly. So what we were able to do last year because the governor mandated that the only money that we had to spend had to go to state agency programs, the way that we were able to help small communities was by two things. We raised the cap on how much individual communities could get, but then we also put in much more money into those two funds. And so one of the things I hope Mound's able to do to help with their water treatment, miniature is in the same boat and a few others is they're able to access some of those funds. Then we also started a new fund on emerging for emerging contaminants because the EPA rules changed just recently to kick a lot of individual uh water distribution or water wells uh individual distribution systems out of compliance like mound. Um, now we have a new fund to to address just that issue and it's called the emerging contaminants fund and this year we'll be putting I hope hundreds of millions of dollars into that because I doubt Mound will make the they're not high enough on the list but it's all very important to me and so this is one of the areas where I really focus my time. >> What is Mound doing to kind of bridge the gap because now that they're over the >> Well, they're out of luck. I mean, gosh, Charlie, you got to set me up because I could talk a lot on this. Um, >> so Mound needs about $35 million. They want to do a plant. Right now, they treat their water at the source. They have three wells and they have been treating just like you guys, but they can't do that anymore because now they have manganesees and so they need to actually um they need to actually dilute their water. That's how a lot of communities deal with high manganesees levels or other arsenic or other Dayton mantros. That's why I'm very grateful because you guys are kind of out here on the west side. So keep me posted if anything happens. But um they now they have to build a plant and their plans $35 million. So far they've secured I think only about $10 million in state funding. So now see remember what we talked about five minutes ago. They can't come back and ask again. We are going to ask again though because they continue to try to split off that project and really for a city like mound they have a few other options but they really need another chunk of money from >> How do they dilute it? Do they have a big holding tank thing? >> Yeah. Or something. >> Yep. Well, it's not in a water tower, but they have a it's a very small plant, but it would allow them that's how a lot of communities deal with their emerging contaminants is they just drill another well and then they bring a well, they bring a bunch of water that doesn't have that contaminant in >> and then they just mix it up and then distribute it. I mean, all a lot of us drink water, >> excuse me, with those contaminants, they're just at a very small amount. So, in somewhere like Minnotonka with 55,000 people, it's pretty easy to delete our water and keep those numbers down. But somewhere like, and I'm going to say it because I don't want to jinx it, but somewhere like somewhere like Mound where they only have they actually only had two pumps or two wells at first, now they're up to three, it's very high with just two wells. because if both of them are contaminated or have this I don't want to say contaminated because it's not like that. But if two two wells have high levels of one contaminant then it's very hard to um to dilute it. So then they needed to to um drill another one. Ministry is in the almost exact same um situation. >> Um further brief topics I want to make sure we cover is uh LGA. We talked about that yesterday morning. Our council is constantly that were one of few cities around that get zero LGA and >> Yep. >> asked you to kind of see what she knew to look into that a bit. We >> did and actually my phone did look at the last two years ago. That was surprising. >> I know that. >> Well, let me read what I got. So, here's one of the beautiful things about being a state senator. somebody asks me a question, I don't have to know. I just ask the 30 lawyers that are sitting in a room board and looking for something to do, which is actually the honest to god truth. So, um, anytime you have a question about any of this, and here's what Christa says about Okay, here's I'm just going to read you straight up. Okay, I've got a whole string here. to my knowledge. Okay, wait. Let me get Oh gosh, there's a lot here. I should just forward this to you, Charlie. Just a second. Okay, here we go. So, this is from one of our legal um researchers. Long Lake received zero dollars in local government aid because the city's characteristics such as age of housing stock, which is based on 1940 and earlier, taxable property values, etc. did not make it eligible based on the state's LGA formula. For background, I think the real determining factor with Long Lake is the sheer property value. In relationship to other cities, it has fairly high housing and property values that make it appear to have more resources than other communities. Again, that's an issue that we share with the other 14 in our district. The city would probably argue that its small population limits how much it can actually tax without being too burdensome. um which is why they'd like a shot at LGA. The LGA formula was last updated during the 2023 legislative session after extensive input from city and county groups including the League of Minnesota. The formula is usually updated about once a decade. Although there's no set timeline for this to happen, usually cities and counties come together when they notice population and economic trends are no longer matching the current current formula. There was a limited amount of money dedicated to LGA for all of the state city cities. This total also was updated by $80 million in 2023. In order to make sure the amount of money is targeting the neediest communities of the state, there is a formula generally takes into account a city's needs. Generally determined by overall tax capacity, age of housing stock, population trends, and amount of commercial industrial population in the city. Long Lake is not the only lake community that feels the current LGA formula is not meeting its needs. Several other cities, I'm reading this verbatim, so it is exactly what I heard from our researchers. Several other cities in greater Minnesota and some other suburban communities with high value properties point out that they have the same basic needs as other communities. True. And it's not reasonable to expect a small population like Long Lake to bear the entire cost of maintaining basic services. There is a small assist city assistance program. Do you know of this? >> Heard of that? I don't know much about >> that was created in 2015 to help cities with less with with less than 5,000 people pay for construction and maintenance of roads. However, that's usually not enough to help with growing and diverse needs of small cities. We should look into that. Charlie, >> I feel like I might have looked into that and the cap on the level of assistance was like >> minuscule. >> Yes. >> What's minuscule? 20,000 compared to a $12 million work. >> Oh yeah, that's not enough. That's like couple hours at WSB. Wait, sorry if anybody's watching. I used to be a consultant so I can make those jokes. Uh it says in all honesty, the odds of the LGA formula being revised in 2026 are very slim. Um but we can look into it. Says this is something that could be on the docket for 2027 if you're willing to work on it. And then I have a bunch of other. So Charlie, I'm just gonna forward you this as a as a >> Is this a commercial property that's pushing us over? Because it seems like um I look at our housing stock and I don't see value compared to neighboring communities meeting house values. >> I'd argue that high value uh comment as well because we're modestly valued compared to the surrounding communities and we have a higher uh uh tax rate because partly because of that, you know, than our surrounding communities as well. So, we're we get we get hit hard on property taxes and so I'm always disappointed to see what cities are getting LGA and because you you know, you see that list and it's like, wait a minute, what are they getting? We're not, you know, >> our demographics are the same. >> We're one square mile are our, you know, population is still probably about what 1900 and it hasn't changed over over the years. I mean it's >> totally limited resources. You know, larger communities have a larger tax base to go back to for for support. >> But but you said >> not have that. >> Yeah. And you said the population trends was part of the >> factor in the formula. I mean we we've been flat if not declining. I think >> you're out. >> Here's what I think we should do. Um, Charlie, let's put LGA on our mayor list and see what other mayors are interested in looking at this. And then we'll have a meeting. You can bring any of your council staff or your city clerk. We'll offer that up to I'm guessing St. Bonnie might be in the same um uh state as you guys. Yep. Uh probably Excelsier and others. We only have two uh state aid cities. Minnitanka and the other state aid city. There's one other >> is that it or >> no why that isn't state aid yet. But anyway >> did you say >> well no they're not in her district but yeah Maple Plane is a good comparable exact same size as us and >> we can have other cities. They don't have to be I mean if you want to invite Maple Plane but what we could do is if we had a meeting we could have one we could have Christa this person who wrote this or the um you know the tax researchers there to answer questions and it's not a hearing just the meeting and I think that might be helpful um and so then we could answer some of your questions specifically well how does commercial fit what and then that might help you kind of game it a little bit, right? Like I mean, hasn't haven't all of us been in a situation wherever where we think we get the criteria and then we try to meet it and yet the criteria is over here doing something else. So, um that might be a really good thing for us to do in November or December, just a a meeting and we have a researcher with us and we're able to ask questions. I can't, that's not my area of expertise, but I can certainly connect you to somebody who might be able to help us get to a place where you might get some local government. >> All right. Yeah, let's do that. That sounds great. I'll I'll keep that on the list and and we'll we'll talk about that in a future meeting. >> Years ago, right? Probably 20 years ago we got it. >> I think 2013 or 12 was like the last time from Scott. >> Yeah, but even then it wasn't much. No. >> Funny enough, I probably actually do have records going back >> that might have some of that information, but I do remember it diminishing and diminishing and diminishing to the point where it was like $1,200 and then it was gone. >> Yeah, that's not even >> And again, you know, fully developed community, we aren't going to be adding housing stock. situation with aging infrastructure, neighborhoods that go back to somewhere between the 40s to the 60s and 70s and some of these older subdivisions. You've got a main thoroughare like Grand Avenue that functions as kind of a local collector arterial for Long Lake and actually connects to a county road, but the sheer size and scope of it along with the utilities underneath it, >> it's completely cost prohibitive. I mean, two blocks of that road was what? 1.2 million. >> It's outrageous. >> Exactly. I mean, that's that was our annual levy at the time. So, you know, putting it in perspective, it's like how if small cities are going to continue to be able to to sustain themselves, >> I think we need a little more support in some way to be able to do that. Yeah. Let's because we can't just continue to >> come back to the homeowners and the commercial property owners and say, "We need more." >> No, I hear you. >> Yeah. So, it's Yeah, a real struggle. >> Well, let's get a group together and that way we can hear what the real, you know, how the criteria, how the formula works >> and how, you know, honestly, you might be shooting yourself in the foot by doing a certain thing. I mean, I don't know. This is certainly not my area of expertise. So, we'll put that on the calendar and I I will actually send that out tomorrow to our mayors that it's something that we'll start working on. And again, they don't have to be in our district. It can be >> Maple Plane, it can be whoever whoever else might be interested. Lorettto actually doesn't have a city. Lorettto would probably be a better example. So, >> right. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that. >> And then you said there's one other issue. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. The last one that I brought this point want to bring in honor yesterday morning was the comp plan. And so that's how you met Professor J. Davidson. Um you know a few years ago we run this comp plan committee together. Spent hours and weeks and days in that conference room back there. in preparing our comp plan for, you know, a city that's that's not growing is a one square mile, no no new water um >> infrastructure. I think maybe a 100,000 or so did the WSB, >> of course. Um, and so this and you and I, yeah, I guess you hadn't heard this from other cities, but but when cities RSI staff knows full well that just a lot of time, money, resources go into preparing the comp plan. >> We tried to um we tried to do it on on the easy and try to do kind of a scaled back version. It was rejected by the Met Council when we last one. We had that 300 WSB and you know $100,000 and it's just and even the net council acknowledges there's a knowledge but for small cities it's just not very and their staff as my understand as well it's not very useful for their planning purposes they're looking at you know your core rings in your city is really growing and so they can do to kind of help with that as far as >> my understanding is from the M council council members is that legislation would be needed to exempt certain cities under whatever criteria not have to maybe we still submit a comp plan but maybe it's just a reduced number of criteria versus volumes of volumes I think there's over 100 >> planning and climate analysis >> yeah and if you're not doing a lot of infrastructure or building out why does the council need to know what where to go put the next sewer line >> I think that's a really good point >> yeah I I just Especially this under 5,000 group. >> Yeah. >> To the >> What is your population? I heard 1900. >> Probably about 1900. >> Okay. >> Or so non state aid on >> and we haven't put any new sewer lines in >> anything. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So Charlie, I we did send out a question about that, but I didn't get any feedback on that yet. So I'll see what I can find out for you. >> Appreciate that. That makes any >> you have we put in new like we haven't had a really big infrastructure new infrastructure buildout. >> I mean probably closest with the apartments right here. I don't know extension. >> I don't do anything major. >> No, it was more um replacing existing lanes that were in there, doing a little bit more private lines and probably upsizing a little bit. Um the developer, you know, it was more on the private property, not the city side. >> All right. Anything else for the senator? We've got got her present. >> All right. Well, appreciate you coming out tonight. >> I'm happy to come back if you wanted to do it a more formal thing. I think tonight was good for us to just answer questions, but if you want a specific presentation, I'm happy to do that. I will follow up though on LGA and on comp plans and try to get an answer for you and I'll just send it to Charlie and Janette and you can distribute that. >> When is the complaint det? >> Well, I think it's um in 20 29 or 2029 for the 10 years, but we have to start working on I think maybe 20 27 or 28. >> We'll actually probably even start having training for that exercise in 26 getting out of it. >> Let me ask something. >> Just makes sense. >> So, so in the 2040 compound plan, we had a certain number of new housing units that was going to be the goal, right? >> And and so we put in these apartments here. We put in the senior housing across we probably met that housing goal in just those two projects, right? And so we thought we were doing a good thing. Well, now is that sort of the new starting point for the 2050 house comp plan where now we got labeled as a near urban right after we did urban urban edge. >> We >> we got out of that, right? >> We did get out of that. >> But my point my question is so now we we made really good progress towards that 2040 comp plan goal and now are they going to say now here's the new line in the sand and and now we're going to need another 100 units. So >> it's a Soviet plan. I've actually been through a couple cycles of this now, which is kind of outing myself for quite how long I've been here, I realize, but it seems like no matter what you do, the Met Council is always going to have an exorbitant goal for a community of our size that doesn't seem to reflect awareness of our community. >> That's the thing. I I really strongly wish that when they develop these goals for their communities that they are in some way reflective that they've driven through one. >> Yeah. >> Because The requirements are simply completely not reflective of the community. There's something that they assign on paper because of our position, but they don't reflect any knowledge or any drive-thru of a community. Didn't one person say, I remember he did come from the I don't know who it was, I think it was a M counselor, what he said is what was really valuable about Long Lake and brings to the table to this this geographic area was our commercial district or the industrial because a lot of cities don't have that. >> And so, yeah, we've got some in our Senate district that have no commercial and it's a light industrial too. A lot of it you guys have a nice industrial >> nice to make clear with commercial and industrial and residential. >> Charlie, did you put your phone number in that email I sent you? >> I did it. For some reason, I still don't have your phone number. >> Sure. >> There. Safe travels to Grand Marray uh tomorrow and >> seven. Uh >> oh, I better not miss the bus then. >> That's okay. It's a real treat to So, yeah. >> All right. Well, thanks again. Please reach out to me. Um Charlie's got my cell or he will have it after tonight. And um I'm happy to answer any questions and to come back. But we'll talk about LGA and some other things between now and the night. You see the governor or the the rest of the mayors do meet about once a month. And you know, other mayors bring city council people with them. So if you ever want to >> the administrators, you're always notice. >> Yeah, we'll keep it whatever. Don't bring too many because we want to keep it we want to keep it under the radar. >> All right. >> Thank you, Senator. >> Okay. So, let's go back to item seven. Uh I'm sorry, eight. Other business. We just one more chance for other business. Yeah. >> All right. I think we covered my items. North. I was just thinking so what does Sean is Sean gonna do for uh filling a void in terms of uh on my list there. >> Okay. But I'll defer to you cover that. Okay. >> All right. Anything else you're going to >> No, sounds like Janette has that one covered. >> I will I will let Janette answer that question for you. Um I did want to let council know that I passed on today for an update on tree removal and how we're doing in the city. Um We've already taken down there have been 53 trees taken down and 17 of them um public works they've done themselves. >> Wow. >> We've gotten the contractor that Sean used. We've actually had residents stop in and tell me what an amazing job they're doing. And >> who is that? >> Quinn Quinn. I will look for my Yes. Um, but they're a wonderful group. I'm very very happy with the job that they've done so far. >> Apple today heard lots of chainsaws defend on that project where they partner with public works partner with the homeowner on that. So, >> correct. Yep. Yep. I actually worked with a homeowner myself try to um figure out a plan that works for both of us. It was called Quinn Gree Service. >> Quinn G tree service. Felt like there had been a storm last night or something. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. >> Power the other night. >> We did notice that here when we got tour >> there was a >> on the fire calls there. They mentioned a transformer might have been out. when I have that reason for it. >> But sorry, yes, I just want to give council an update on so I think that it's going really well and Sean I've been working very closely to keep um to plan for it in an unexpected budget this year so and it will be budgeted appropriately in the future. >> Amanda, >> all right. On the next meeting agenda, um we'll be including an action item, um asking council to authorize us to post for a maintenance worker food position for public works. What differentiates the two from a one is that it's who already has water sewer certifications and is a little more operations ready versus training and entry. Um and and I think we feel really strongly that uh um we really need to get some knowledgeable support versus training support. We need we need to get him um a right hand that he can rely on. Um so I think you'll be seeing that there on the next agenda. Um and uh we'll try to put a fast track on that. Um you know, council willing there. We we want to get him some support um and and help with the team a little bit there city hall updates earlier and that's that close on the roof and you fix the restroom. Yeah, >> we've been a little busy and uh I'm I'm meeting with vendors tomorrow morning to see if I can get some information on city hall doors. There's a cooling place accessibility grant with a deadline at the end of this month. And I've been assured that new entry doors with a better ADA system would actually meet one of the top three priorities of the grant. So, I'm going to try to get some quotes. Um the maximum award on that is 20,000 right now. aren't a lot of applications out there. Um, so we'll see what quotes come in at for new entry doors. >> Good job. >> We'll see what we can do. >> Take that sign down one of these days. >> Yes, we would love to take the sign down. >> And have an ADA system that works without needing a set of instructions every time we try to. >> It's a tricky one. >> All right. Good work on that. All right, council member newcomer. Um, last but not least, what's new with you? as well. All right. So, with that, our next meeting is going to be on Tuesday, October 21st, city council meeting for sure and perhaps the work session will as we closer. All right. Great. Last call on the All right. If there's no objection, I'll adjourn the meeting by general consent. Hearing none. Meeting is adjourned at 8:13 p.m. >> Thank you, Todd. One of them