in Scott is that you um so I'll just start uh I know a couple meetings ago John you had mentioned um addressing some of the issues as they related to um you know some of the comments that the mayor of Orno had made related to The Long Lake City Council um and I had mentioned that I was going to look at some of the the response time data that I looked at historically so this is kind of bringing a bunch of stuff together as it relates to what I just call my due diligence study but response times data and cost Effectiveness that we've that we can see with the various models um and uh the my goals and motivation for this are first to address what I consider disparaging comments made by um Council and the mayor of Orno as they relate to the response times of our Long Lake fire department and also some comments that um related to The Long Lake Fire City Council and supposed failures we have for management of the Long Lake fire department and our response times uh and again this is part of just what I consider my due diligence of trying to understand um what position we're in and because Oro is demanding that we become a contract City and uh I I wanted to make sure I understood the service performance and the cost effectiveness of the different models we had and more than anything just seek truth and transparency as it relates to looking at the response time data in an honest way uh so some of the claims that we've seen in the past um well a lot of them start with the with the needs assessment that was done in May of 2023 um so this is a slide that came from that needs assessment and um the yellow box down there is mine I just added that for the so you can see the date uh the thing I want you to pay attention to is there's a ton of data in this slide but what's the most important is the fact that it is emergency response study that they did um and there was a lot of emphasis on the Suburban demand Zone and the Station 2 response area the other thing I'll know is that this is where that mythical 16 minutes comes from and I call it to mythical 60 minutes because I I don't think it's grounded in reality and you'll see that uh shortly and then down at the Bott bot of this slide you see that uh again it's emphasis on the NFPA standard as it relates to the Suburban response area and this standard is a fire response standard I believe it's the 1720 4.3.2 standard and that says for a fire response you need to have 10 people on site of the event within 10 minutes and you need to accomplish that 80% of the time uh another claim that that was made this is the oral happenings from July August of 2023 and uh one of the things and Under The Heading a few things that will prove with the change in oral fire is this claim and that is that there will be four-person Duty Crews and that the oral fire department will perform at a speed of uh five minutes or less and as I'm sitting here in the seat of you know again just one vote of five um in that potential contract City position I need to understand what model they're using to get to that number because that's a pretty fantastic uh response time uh another claim that that I found was actually in a court document from uh Dennis Walsh this was uh here I Dennis Walsh under penalty of perjury and he has a statement about the the specific study that that needs assessment study and it says through the examination of the needs that Orno has and the current service being provided by The Long Lake Fire Department we discovered that the Nar territory daytime week time response times were woefully inadequate and again you notice that this is focusing and stating that they did a Station 2 response area that is the nvar CCO point area um response study uh and I'm not a social media guy but I was told that I should I should look on social media so I went on next door and it's I was I was kind of fascinated um but uh I found these things that the that the mayor of Orno had posted um and for example the top left one there providing the best service that nvar Casco Point area has ever had fire Orno fire providing the best fire service the Navara Casco Point have ever experienced providing the best service in response times that our CCO Point have ever received and on it goes this in every single one of these it's talking about the best service this um when you use the word best it is necessarily a comparison to a prior and that prior is a Long Lake Fire Department servicing that Station 2 response area so I think it was necessary and and this is what I'm going to dig into looking at what the actual response times were of the Long Lake Fire Department for that Station 2 response area another thing that's kind of funny in this one is that first top left one actually says providing the best service and that's a present tense thing this was actually um written on social media in June um so he's kind of projecting ahead into the future there now if we look at the Orno needs assessment um you have to look at it and say you know we're doing some basic research here and any research project anybody does you have to define a methodology and that's basically the recipe by which we do that that analysis so Orno defined um their research methodology as pulling the data from The Long Lake Fire Department image Trend database from 2014 to 2022 they then kept all Station 2 and all call events and I color this one red because there's a little bit of um I would say statistical slight of hand that's starting to happen with this um with this and it will become more obvious as we move on uh they decided to keep daytime and weekday events and remove holidays the reason they did this was to examine the hardest periods of time if you have a payon call model um when people are at work doing their day jobs that is the hardest time to respond so they wanted to examine those hardest hardest times and they disclosed that so I I think that's fine I've had some people criticize saying hey you know this doesn't represent the fire department as a whole but they did say they were looking at this hardest time slice or period of time in in time of day the next thing they did was vehicle filtering and this is uh another thing I colored red because this is something that you'll see Works in conjunction with the other thing to make for some ridiculous results um in particular there there are many different apparatus resource IDs those are essentially just the name of a vehicle and and what they're you know when they um took off off when they responded and arrived at the at the event what they did is they said we're only going to keep vehicles that are responding from the station to building itself and then we're going to take the duty officer and the command vehicle and delete those as well the argument for this was it's a Station 2 response area study so we should only keep the Station 2 apparatus and also uh the logic was the command vehicle um can't directly apply water to a fire and they're looking at a fire suppression standard so that justifies removing the command vehicle the last thing they deci deed to do um was keep all response modes and and this includes non-emergency events I colored this one blue just because I think it's kind of middle of the road certain data sets we have you can look and find emergency um response mode listed either emergency or not emergency but for example we were just looking at the county data set and they don't have a response mode so necessarily sometimes you have to include all data but just recognize that this is not an emergency study this is an all modes study and as you can imagine you can respond to emergencies faster because there's High urgency and you go lights and Sirens not emergencies you go routine so they tend to be slower and tend to slow your slow down your statistics so again I want to I want to emphasize I don't believe this represents the nfba standard and I don't even think it's a reasonable methodology as as you'll see here soon um but it was my responsibility to replicate their study they make um claims it's I first have to do that before I can criticize the methodology I have to make sure that I have my ducks in a row so this is pictorially what I view what what happened as I'm trying to trying to replicate this this original raw data file think of it as a 10,000 row spreadsheet um and every every incident every fire incident as well as every apparatus that went uh will have a row in this file uh the prescribed methodology is the method by which you filter down that huge spreadsheet to get a smaller um final analysis file and that's essentially the set of data you're going to do your summary Statistics over such as your 80th percentile or your your average of the of the times and again I want to emphasize I don't believe this prescribed methodology is Meaningful in any way I think it's it's uh it's a flawed methodology but it's my responsibility to replicate using their methodology I received their final analysis file where they had supposedly taken the original raw file and used the prescribe methodology and gotten this file however these two files didn't match so I went in and I I looked at different events in there and I found a number of reasons why they weren't matching um in particular I found that there were conflicts with the prescribed methodology with their final analysis file so things just directly in Conflict um and then I found other things where the where the data in their final file was actually changing from what the original file was so I have no idea how they actually got that final file I don't believe that it followed the prescribed methodology you can actually show that it doesn't and Orno was notified about this and when I notified them that there were discrepancies and inconsistencies with their study and that there was some potential data Integrity issues um they cut off communication and um the people on this email thread This was um at least on the Oro side I uh we I believe Scott was on this and I think I emailed one of you two um I wanted to make sure we at least had um some witnesses to that email but we had Mr vanile who's now the fire chief in Orno we had City administrator Mr Edwards and then we had council member of each um Council V and I did have a couple uh email exchange after this and she told me that they were advised not to uh communicate with me about response time data so it's kind of cut everything off the really scary thing here is that that 16-minute response time comes from their final analysis file and so the Chain of Thought here is the original file we know that's good that comes from Long Lake fire department and we can get that um uh you know it's just straight from our database there's an unknown methodology that's in conflict with their prescribed methodology to get their final analysis file and we already know that there's data Integrity issues as well and then they come up with a 16 minutes so this there's a big train of um poor research really um so the reality is is I can't replicate this study so I'm taking that off the table and I'm going to ask the question what can I learn about what they did with their analysis and how they came up with these 16 minutes so we're going to look at one event um that's from their analysis file this is event 22000 295 and I believe this is uh I believe 1025 old Crystal Bay Road is the ice center next to the high school and on the map you can see that black hourglass that points to approximately where it is um the first thing you'll notice is that this is not a station to response area study so there's there's that issue but let's see what actually happens in this event um the first thing is that the command vehicle shows up from station one and and I put little arrows on the map so as as apparatus arrive you can you can see where they're coming from red arrows that's an emergency mode so in 4 minutes and 12 seconds we had a command vehicle show up in 6 minutes and 38 seconds we had an engine show up again from station one in 11 minutes and 19 seconds we had another engine show up from Station 2 and then in 40 plus minutes we had an engine show up in non-emergency mode from station two so I guess this is uh where you guys get to tell me what do you think the response mode time should be and you look there's actually complexity here because you have different types of apparatus that are showing up they're coming from different stations coming in different response modes um so uh what this it isn't a trivial operation to Define what that methodology should be and what you should consider that that response time um when I look at this there's an argument to say well you can start establishing command and control at four minutes so that's time you should you should count there's uh through there and needs uh assessment methodology they've said that well you should delete the command vehicle I don't believe that's what the NFPA standard says at any point but you should count then the first apparatus that has fire suppression capabilities which would be engine 11 at 6 minutes but Oro counted the 40 minute response time um so the now this is where you can see where their methodology and why I colored those things red um so the first thing they did is they said we're going to include all calls so that includes events that are almost up in Madina and the second thing they did is they deleted all station one apparatus and all command Vehicles so that only leaves the 40-minute response time vehicle left um so they counted the fourth responding apparatus and considered that the Long Lake Fire Department's response to the Station 2 response area and it wasn't even in the station two response area so if you don't believe me let's look at the raw data so the top half of this and this is a little bit small so hopefully you can you can see this the top half of this um slide is the raw input file and you can see that there are five rows four of those correspond to four different apparatus and then there's a stat row which is not a real apparatus um and you can see the response time is over there in column R the final data file that Oro produced is down here at the bottom and you can see that they picked engine 22 and they push that 40-minute response time down so right here it's this is um a bit ridiculous so and I'm going to say the sentence and I got to say it slowly because it's just so ludicrous but this was a Station 2 apparatus in a non-emergency mode acting as a backup to a station one event and that's the time that they selected when they're um doing their needs assessment and coming up with this mythical 16-minute response time um and the crazy thing is this isn't unique so we can look at another this is just one example there are many um Orno claims that again look at the map it's very close to station one um they said it's 35 minutes the reality was we had an apparatus there in 6 minutes uh this is another one again close to station one the actual response time was 8 minutes Orno says it's 38 minutes so um now what I did is I took all of their final analysis uh file I took all those addresses and I put it on a map and on the left is what you're hearing their Council and their mayor say they're saying that it's a Station 2 response area study however the reality is this is the set of addresses that they actually included in their in their Station 2 response area study and it has a tremendous number of calls all the way North of Highway 6 out in Spring Hill Road um they even have big island calls um and these are things that were included in their study so it's clearly not a station to response area study and recognize that since these were all calls and they're they're going north this is an apparatus coming from Station 2 that was very likely a backup response vehicle to something that station one Vehicles were already on site for so we've demonstrated that that there's been really really poor judgment and defining the methodology that was used in the needs assessment um but this is this is actually kind of a hard slide to digest but I'm going to ask this question do we fundamentally trust the data once it's placed in oro's hands and I know that's kind of an aggressive question but when I looked at those the the my analysis file and their final analysis file I had some red flags get thrown up um as it relates to data integrity and so this example up here I took the raw input file and I filtered on one incident this is is 19239 and I filtered out apparatus engine 22 and down below is the final analysis file so this is this is one that's included in their study um and if every one of these green lines is a matching column so the elements the in the data in every one of these green things matches some of the column names have changed maybe he's added a column here there but the content is the same so these green arrows effectively serve as a fingerprint that we are seeing this data in the original file and there then it m everything matches in this final file except the column that matters um somehow the final analysis file that was produced for their needs assessment um had five minutes added to it the input for this apparatus for this incident was 15 minutes and 1 second and when you look at their final analysis file the time somehow changed to 20 minutes and 8 seconds and so I can't even process how that happens um so there's serious Integrity issues in the research process so thus far in depth um nobody's been able to replicate this study and I personally don't think it's possible because there's no methodology that says randomly add five minutes to a response time um so I think it's impossible to replicate um this is definitely not a Station 2 response area study it is not an emergency response study as well um frequently they use backup uh apparatus as the measured first response time because of the way they filter out all the station one um apparatus responding to all call events and it is most definitely does not reflect the NFPA standard um and it's also very highly concerning um and it's quite alarming that these data Integrity issues exist in this oral resource process so let's look at the current performance of how we're doing um one thing that we need to decide is I mean I'm pretty convinced that that needs assessment analysis and their methodology um shouldn't even be set to the side it should be just disgarded completely and we need to decide what we want to use for our own measuring of the data so the one thing we could do is use the NFPA standard but that requires getting 10 people on site that is very very difficult um the long L fire department can achieve that because on average we get 13 people uh to to show up for a call however getting 10 people to show up um would mean that that event that we saw that the fire department performed really really well that had a command vehicle two engines and the and the emergency was over so nine most likely were there did we show up how do you how do you categorize that so it may be that the NFPA standard as it's defined may not be what we're actually looking for as we decide what the best way to measure um performance in response times are there's also a question should you consider fire suppression standard when the vast majority of calls are not fires um well we have a lot of Medicals and and that's something that you know the NFPA fire suppression standard may not be the right thing for um the other thing we do is we could cherry-pick the NFPA standard um and that's what Orno decided to do but they completely ignored Staffing the last I checked a fire engine has never put out a fire in the history of mankind firefighters put out fires and if you're not properly staffed um it's it's a real pretty shiny um vehicle but you need to have things properly staffed so you can't ignore Staffing in that type of situation um and I and I fear because I hear people say oh oro's needs assessment is the NFPA standard it's most definitely not and if you cherry pick and then Missa it it becomes very dangerous because people start believing that it is the NFPA standard um my opinion is that we should use the first responding apparatus and the reason I say this is first it's the cleanest and it's the most relevant uh a lot a lot of calls are Medicals and the reality is if I have a cardiac happen at my house the person I want knocking on my door is the command vehicle they have an A a full Med bag and the person behind the wheel is likely one of the most highly trained people in the fire department so that is exactly who I want there it's not who I delete from the analysis and also for fires you got to establish command and control um and essentially you have to have incident command size up the situation locate Water Supplies make a plan and that is when you're starting to attack that fire event is when you have command and control and even though it can't throw water it's doing essential um task in establishing what what's going to happen for the next um you know that first minute dictates next hour the first five minute dict States next 5 hours so um so yes I'm going to pick that first responding apparatus so what we did did and I'm going to say specifically Charlie did this because he did the hard work of getting the data from the county um was a reach out to the henan county sheriff's office and we requested data for July and August um they did have one issue with just under a week worth of data so we took the remaining seven weeks and said we're going to do the analysis on that period of time um but you know when we get all the data come in and and get everything cleaned up then we can expand the study um as data comes in we filtered out invalid response times that just cleaned up uh things that aren't weren't actually a response and were just sta rows in the in the file um we also classified units by department so um oral fire department units start with 65 that's what their fire department is called The Long Lake Fire Department had uh numerous codes we had 75 57 which I think was a fat finger then 7779 I believe are standby modes um and then I also ignored any uh unit name that was Alm or hadm in it the reason was is there were some weird um there were some weird data on when the night we had all those stor stms and if you didn't include if you included this um Oro would end it up with a 40 minute response time event which I don't think was real so we removed the Alm uh events we removed Mutual Aid and outside of the response area calls we picked the first responding vehicle and then we examin the means in the percentiles of those distributions so this slide again's a little bit DSE I know this whole Talk's dents so I apologize but uh when we look at the Long Lake Fire Department's performance in July and August for 2024 and again this is on the station one response area calls um we can see the mean of the distribution up on the top right so that's what we typically call the average is 8 minutes and three seconds um and now percentiles sometimes this can this can be difficult I I show this to my wife and she's like you got to explain percentiles better than you did so I'm going to try here if you have um 100 response times what I think of it is put the response time on top of a block and then sort those blocks from slowest to fastest so over here you have your slowest response time over here you have your fastest and now if you're if you're going to look at your 50% tile what you do is you say what is the time such that half of my responses are faster than this time and half or slower than this time so as I sort my blocks if you use a 50th percentile 7 minutes and 41 seconds is where half the calls were faster than that time and half the calls were slower um Orno really likes the 80th percentile because the NFPA standard mentions that and this actually measures a little bit more of the slower part of the distribution so the um that kind of slow tail um of response times and in this case the 80th percentile statistic was 10 minutes and 46 seconds that is at 10 minutes and 46 seconds 80% of the calls were faster than that at 10 minutes and 46 seconds 20% of the calls were slower than that uh the other thing that's useful with this graph and looking at the percentiles is you can really get a feel for what your worst case scenarios are uh and so for example if I look this is look at the 998th percentile that's almost 13 minutes so that says that 98% of my calls are faster than 13 minutes and 2% of my calls are slower but this really lets you dial in on those cases that you're really struggling so let's look at the county data for just uh July August 2024 and this is going to be two different station response areas so the oral fire department is going to be responding to Station 2 events long L fire department is going to be responding to station one events so if we look at that same data on on these plots you see that the Long Lake fire department has has an average of 8 minutes and 3 seconds the orinal fire department has an average of 11 minutes and 15 seconds and if we look at that 80th percentile statistic which is become very popular um The Long Lake Fire Department for again for station one is 10 minutes and 46 seconds and the oral Fire Department responding to Station 2 is 10 minutes and 51 secondses oh sorry 12 minutes and 51 seconds um but recognize that this is not an Apples to Apples comparison because they are covering different areas um it could be that the Station 2 response area is harder to cover because you know between any two points that you want to go there's probably a lake in your way streets are narrow it can be there there are some complexities there so and oh the other thing I want to mention is that we noticed that there are some pretty rough events in that worst case scenario so you go to the 95th percentile and up um there were a couple events that Orno had that were extremely slow and and that's a bit concerning so now the question is can we apply that historical data of the Long Lake Fire Department responding to a station to response area event but do it in a correct way so don't just say I'm going to take station to calls and then do all calls or anything like that we're going to actually Define these things to the station to response area calls um what we did is we took the Oro PID removal list and we matched that against image Trend data base that data that we had so we could pull out all the Station 2 actual events I exclude Daren Island because Orno did remove that in their PID list but they're not covering it because they don't have a boat um we excluded apparatus stat and POV V is private vehicle stat is a is a stat line in the in this it's kind of a worthless row but it shows up as an apparatus and then we're using the first responding apparatus if we look at that then it allows us to say okay well let's look at how the Long Lake Fire Department performed over those same two months the prior year is there something special about July and August let's let's take that off the table and let's just look at how the two departments responded to that same area over the same months but just one year apart when we look at this uh again the Oro fire dep department is that blue line on top and the Long Lake fire department is the purple line on the bottom um the long L average time was 9 minutes and 32 seconds oros 11:15 and now if we look at that 80th percentile statistic uh long Lakes fire department while providing coverage for that Station 2 response area was 11 minutes and 12 seconds whereas oros was 12 minutes and 51 seconds so for the 80th percentile for the prior year the Long Lake performance was actually a almost a full over a minute and a half faster and again the the tails are a bit rough as you can see but you can see the long fire department has a little bit worse tail in that Station 2 area than it did in the in the station one area but just not as bad as oro's tail now if we want to look at the same input file that was used in the needs assessment data we can look at the 2024 through the 2022 Long Lake Fire Department performance and do that same filter to pull out all those Station 2 events and compare that to the July August performance at Oral fire department when we do that we see Long Lake has an average of 914 um whereas Oro is 11:15 and then if we look at the 80th percentile statistic it's 11 minutes 58 seconds for Long Lake in 12 minutes and 51 seconds so just under a minute faster with the Long Lake um model and again we still have that that nasty tail up there um and now if we look at all data for Station 2 just combining those two you'll see there's consistency between the purple and the green lines that's looking at 2014 through 2022 for Long Lake Fire Department responding to to the Station 2 response area uh whereas the purple line is July August of 2023 with Long Lake responding to that and you can see pretty much uniformly that the Oro for fire department model is performing at a worst response time for almost every percentile and then the tail is significantly worse and just for reference the mythical 16 minutes um if we were to put that on this scale just to see kind of where it is um on this plot you can see it's significantly higher than any of the fire departments are performing when you actually compare them in a reasonable way with a consistent metric and then mayor Walsh's um promise to his residents was that they're going to have sub five minute response times when you look at this plot it is just in inconceivable that they could get to five minute response times with the model that they've structured um so we're going to now do a price performance check uh this is one thing we talked about in The Forum so I'm going to go over this quickly but uh essentially in 2024 Orno is covering roughly one six of their calls for 7 $173,000 I'm ignoring the capital budgets because that's huge over there and I'm just looking at operational to try to make this is as positive as we can for um the ofd model uh in 2024 the other five6 of their calls are costing $665,000 roughly and it runs very Capital lean uh so if you look at the efficiency of delivery that ofd call uh cost per call operationally is close to $113,000 uh the Long Lake Fire Department with these numbers and again that's coming with estimates of 360 calls per year this year in July and August we're actually a little bit high on call volume so and these are just approximates to get ratios is the is the most important thing here um long fire department model is roughly $2,200 a call so that's a ratio of 5.8 times as expensive per call and and the way I like to think about this is Orno for every six calls Orno has one of them will be covered by Orno for a price of $773,000 the other five will be covered by The Long Lake Fire Department for $665,000 now if we look at 2025 and the budgets for that the operational costs are north of a million dollars again the capital is still huge but they're going to be covering a third of their calls next year so again we're guessing that's going to be around 120 calls uh Long Lake will be covering uh fire department will be covering the other two-thirds of the calls and uh that's for 800 or $583,000 uh the operational cost for the op the oral Fire Department is between $8 and $9,000 the operational cost for the Long Lake fight departments about $2,400 and that's a 3.5 times as expensive the other thing that I'm I'm sitting back just thinking as a as a contract City potentially is you really need to look at the business decisions of who you are contract City too um you will ultimately be exposed to those business decisions so we need to look and see how they're responding um and it's it's it's perplexing that they just wouldn't fold this back into the Long Lake Fire Department where I think we could get it done for you know probably less than $100,000 whereas it's costing them a million dollars and again that million dollars gets you two out of their every six events whereas the $583,000 is covering the other four out of every six events so the facts that we've now established regarding performance is the Long Lake fire department has demonstrated Superior performance to the rno fire department model and I want to put emphasis here on model because we know the firefighters are very good um in fact half of them are Long Lake firefighters we know that they're trained in they're excellent um so these performance issues we're seeing has to be based around how the the department is modeled and how it's just managed in in responding because we know the variable of quality firefighters that is off the table both departments have excellent people um so there's some some real issues there with how how things are operating um and uh and we've already said the response time for the Long Lake Fire Department in every single uh metric that we we look at when you actually look at the data with a consistent um performance metric The Long Lake fire department is actually performing in a superior way um and then it clearly it's demonstrated a superior cost Effectiveness um so now I want to look at some of the claims that were made uh and just fact check them so Mr walshan is Oro happening said there's going to be a four-person Duty Crew which we know that's not true it's two person Duty Crews and he said he's going to get the response times down to five minutes or less this is a promise that he made to his residents on what's going to happen when when uh they changed or fire however we know that's not true and they're not even close so this is an empty promise to his residents and those are simply false now the next thing we're looking at is that there was a claim that they did an uh Station 2 response area study that needs assessment most definitely was not a Station 2 response area study it covered all calls and and many many many of those calls were up in the station one response area so again this is a claim that we know is false a little gem I found while reading this was that Orono has demonstrated the ability to better manage the budget of a fire department um managing a budget in in a business for that matter um typically you look to spend less money to get better service um they're spending more money to get worse service so I would say this is the opposite of demonstrating good business acument and management so that's false um the social media claims this is also uh kind of fascinating there all these claims about providing better service and and right there the third one on the left he he even says providing the best service and response times um I don't know where that would come from these are completely unsubstantiated and what's even more interesting is that if you look between these these um postings they go the left column and the right column between these two events on the left um that was July 24th there was a 33 minute over 33 minute call time and two days later he's posting it's the best service times ever over here on the right he says that um you know they had a what is it on a August 31st says best service ever but 2 days prior they had a 35 Plus minute response time so there appears to be a pretty massive disconnect between the mayor and what um the reality is of what their response times are so this is very concerning as we as we think as a con as a potential contract city is this something we want to be exposed to um so again every single one of these um social media posting they're just based in fiction and in fact the longly fire department has demonstrated Superior um performance so conclusions uh again and this is for the council I really wanted to give you guys this um presentation a long time ago but uh I've been hung up with not being cut off from being able to get the data I need um but first the Orno needs this analysis in the needs assessment and the about the response times it's completely invalid um some demonstrated issues I have uh with with how we're we're witnessing things and again in that perspective of evaluating should we even consider being a contract city um I'm I'm concerned about uh being able to properly remodel uh model response times uh we've seen that they mayor is making empty promises to their own residents regarding response times um and or no residents come first what does that mean for a contract City if he's if he's giving empty promises to his own residents that doesn't feel great um it's not comfortable when they sever Communications and not answer questions and especially when it's I after I point out that they're having issues with their data um when I pointed out that they had data analysis inconsistency they took no action so inaction on proof of data inconsistency is an issue inaction on proof of lack of data Integrity is also a pretty concerning issue and then as I watch the business decisions it seems like an irrational business decision-making process over there U performance we can just go through this again but um the long for fire department when you actually look at the data and you apply a consistent metric um has Stellar performance and it has Stellar performance at a very low cost so the cost performance ratio is just off the charts and my recommendation to the council I don't know if anybody needs convincing on this but I I would recommend we do not pursue becoming a contract city of the oral fire department sorry thanks for listening guys that was very informative I have one question so when you look at the apparatus on there I know no one wants any questions but we didn't really look at how many people were responding so there there with the apparatus there there is that's a important question cuz what we typically run if it's a command vehicle there's going to be one person right um but in an engine we typically run four uh and some I know like Excel Shire and their Duty CS are run too but that can become um that becomes tough right because if you have a fire and you're going with two that that can be very dangerous and um you want to make sure those two people that are rolling are extremely highly qualified and when I talked to Highland about how um how they would run over there he said depending on the event the two Duty Crew people would hop in the truck and they would wait for the third or fourth person to show up so you can they would just be there at the scene but wouldn't necessarily be they they they would sit in the garage and say they would wait until that third person shows up depending on the event and and it depends on the experience level of the people as well okay so so there are there is a column that has like the number of responding people sometimes those that data gets a little bit funky when you look at the thing so it is hard to get the actual but that's also it's it's really important Council fman that was fabulous presentation you are very much in the data I don't know that any there's another city council member in the United States that could pull off an analysis like that and also in the presentation you forgot to mention that like he was so good at making it visually oh that there you go appreciate it and your your your career and your PhD is in all the stuff and things I can't even pronounce and you're just phenomenal with this data and that's really what it what it's all about is you know we we can people can make claims on social media or or elsewhere during Council meetings but when there's data that backs up you know the facts behind what you're portraying here that's that says a lot and should say a lot to a lot of people and like good emphasis on you already did it but it's not we're not uh this is not against any particular firefighters it's just about the model that they set up which is just based on and I think I think there's about seven Lon Lake firefighters on the oral fire department um out of their their crew and and they're doing the best they can I'm sure under the circumstances but this model is is not set up to to succeed and I when I look at these call times I looked through this data quite a bit I I and I know as I look around us um I can only believe that a lot of it has to do with with their respond where they're responding from um there we've had a lot of reports of of the the duty crew firefighters driving through Lawn Lake you know being at the Town Center being at Caribou moving in front of the Liquor Barn those types of things so I I've got to believe that a lot of those responses are coming from way up here when they promis their citizens that they were due to building that just under $200,000 temporary fire garage down nvar that that was going to be where they're responding from and from what I hear they're very very seldomly down there so they're responding from northern Oro by the the Oro City Hall and that's a significant drive down to the area that they're actually Ser supposed to be serving which has to only add to the amount of time time that they're when they're responding to these uh these emergency calls so I think that plays into this as well but it's um it's just the way that this is set up and uh it really is really impactful to to see you say uh your presentation there so appreciate it