Good evening. It is Thursday, December 4th, 2025 at approximately 6:03 p.m. in the evening, and I call the city of Maple Plane Planning Planning Commission meeting to order. Please stand and join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance. Thank you everybody. All right. So, first order of business is um where did Um, I just need either um any motions to add business to the uh agenda. Otherwise, I need motions to adopt adopt the agenda. >> I'd recommend that we uh have some sort of introduction of our new members added to the agenda. Um, and I was also wondering if we have any minutes from our last meeting to >> Hi. Um, there are not minutes from the last meeting to review and to approve. Uh, they will be on the January um, meeting, >> the next meeting. >> Okay. >> So, I hear a motion to add introductions to our new planning commission members. Um, and then everything is as scheduled. So, can I get a motion to um Well, I can I get a motion first of all? >> I'll So moved. >> Okay. And then uh can I get a second? Um so Stefan does the first motion. Adam does the second. All in favor say I. >> I. All oppose say the same. Hearing none, eyes have it five to zero. So, um, going alphabetically by first name, David, would you like to introduce yourself, please? >> Hello. Um, David Chard. I just recently moved to Maple Plane from the UP of Michigan up in H Hotton last December because it's always good to move from the UP and to Minnesota in December. I thought it was a good plan. [laughter] >> Much warmer down here, isn't it? >> It is. No. Uh so anyway uh just my history previously had I lived in UP for 50 years of my life and then uh I recently retired have some medical issues with vision and hearing and some other stuff and uh so we moved down here closer to my daughter and then closer to some medical care and of course shorter winters believe it or not. >> Uh my past experience has just been on a township government up there for 12 years either as a deputy clerk, a trustee or a supervisor. So about 12 years of experience with that was a nonzone very simple business operation up there. Right. Thank you. >> Welcome. >> Yeah. Welcome. Thanks for joining. We certainly accept the volunteer actions that you're providing to our city. So thank you, >> Nick. Yeah. So similarly also recently moved to uh the city back in January. Uh and then just from Plymouth, so not very far away at all. Uh and then I wanted to be more involved in the next city we moved to because this is the city we plan to actually raise our family in. I have a 2-year-old daughter, hopefully another one on the way in February. Uh and then uh yeah, uh I have a background in urban planning. That's actually what I went to school for. Although David and I share kind of a profession. He worked at the University of Michigan. I work at the University of Minnesota. Uh both in tech. So I never actually used my planning degree. Uh so this was I saw this position open um in the newsletter. I think responded and here we are. >> Got to correct you though. It's Michigan Tech. >> I'm sorry. Okay. [laughter] >> Inflate ourselves with that Lesser University. >> I apologize. [laughter] By the way, that's on the record, too. >> Okay. >> All right. Welcome, Nick. Uh Nick and what's your last name again? >> Uh Buller. >> Buller. Okay. >> Yep. >> Thank you for joining. Um I have the same sentiment. We're raising our family here. Uh moved kind of a same time frame. We had one child and then another one was expected. So, um yeah, I wanted to volunteer and uh serve my community. So, here we are. Um thank you. Um, moving right along to our agenda items. Obviously, as noted before, we don't have any m meeting minutes to review today. So, uh, we're just headed right into new business. And Mark, why don't you take it away? >> Yeah. Thank you, honorable chair and commissioners. Welcome, new commissioners. Uh, glad that [snorts] we have a meeting and something to review. Actually, I think we'll have a couple meetings here, uh, contiguous, so uh, most likely January. But um this first or this item on the agenda tonight is an item that is familiar to some of you as it was previously considered by uh the planning commission earlier this year and I'll walk through why it's back in front of the planning commission. It's a request by Northshore Gymnastics for site plan review preliminary and final plat to allow a new building and associated site plan improvements to be located on the properties loc on the properties located at 5380 and 5480 Pioneer Creek Drive. the applicant, Northshore Gymnastics and their uh builder um Yannik uh Construction had approached the city about the possibility of building a new facility on these two properties that currently are occupied uh partially by a parking lot that served the ProtoLabs building just to the west of this particular site. And when they approached the city about this property, we talked through what that process looked like. um we talked through uh uses um and how this property is zoned and how their project would fit into that zoning. And so just as a reminder, this property um both properties are zoned I industrial by the city and they're guided I industrial by the comprehensive plan there. Both properties comprised uh together approximately six and a half acres of land. And so when the applicant approached city, they want to re they want to build a new building um on this site that would serve as their um their uh main building for the gymnastics operation that currently operates just to the west of here in in Maple Plane, but just down the street um and on the south side of Pioneer Creek. Um as many of you know, Northshore Gymnastics has been a uh member of our community for quite some time. And so when they started thinking about building their own building, they wanted to find a site in Maple Plane. This one happened to fit all of their criteria. With that said, they came forward to the city in September for site plan review, preliminary and final plat, and it was reviewed and considered by the planning commission at that time. It was recommended for approval to the city council. Since that time, and prior to the city council um being able to consider it, so the city council has not considered this. the applicant uh came back to the city and noted that they've they started to run into some site related costs uh due to soil conditions that were unexpected and and not um initially understood. And so they started to look at uh ways that they could potentially still get the project to work but reduce some of the costs um uh with the project. And so in doing that, they looked at some alternative building types as kind of one of their primary ways to initially look at whether or not they could uh get the project to um make sense and pencil out ultimately. And so they spent a couple of months kind of going through the process of of going back and seeing what they uh could do to the building and then what kind of site related um changes they could make. And so they brought back um a plan that changed the building materials really like the elevations of the building and then a plan that mostly addressed uh many of the comments that had been previously made by the planning commission. just given um when we go through site plan, we do look at the building architecture, we do look at the site related and I I said that given the changes that are being proposed and what was represented when it came forward to the planning commission previously, I thought the best course of action was to just bring it back to planning and then um go from planning, you know, to council. And so they they agreed to that and they they were open to uh kind of walking through that. So, what we have tonight in in my report, I created kind of an update, what changed, and then left the rest of the report for really almost everything else. Um, and I'm only going to I'm I'm going to touch mostly on what changed, but then we'll just kind of give a quick overview of of everything that's related. So, um, as it relates to what's being proposed, um, if you go to the, uh, site plan that, um, is that next sheet right there, you can see that they're proposing to construct, um, an approximately 40,000 square foot building on this site. It would have an entrance um, coming off of Pioneer Creek uh, into the site. They would be utilizing the area that is currently occupied by the parking lot for protolabs uh in order to build that and they would be creating a de a demising uh fence down that north south property line to to separate and differentiate the parking on protoabs from what's being proposed with their parking lot. So really trying to break that off and not have an overlap between those parking lots um for a multitude of reasons I think we've talked about uh previously. And so some of the challenges of this site is just the overall grades to this property. Um as I think people can see on the plans or if you drive out and look at the site, you know that the property to the east sits higher than this particular property. And so there's that slope along the east property line that comes down and they're trying to they're trying to maintain that slope to the extent they can and still fit the building um and then the the parking into that area. Um the uh site that um then from um what was proposed in September and what we considered to what's being proposed now. The primary change to the site plan is that they eliminated the retaining wall along the east side of the building and they removed the back access point that used to be on the east side of the building and they really are now just kind of grading right down to the building creating a swale on that eastern uh property line or on the bottom of that eastern property line. They also did take into um uh take into account and then ultimately are proposing to add a sidewalk that would run all the way out to Pioneer Creek. That was one of our comments we made that would accommodate kind of two facets of their operations. One is if they had overflow parking, we noted that it can go on Pioneer Creek. And so if you had a big event, let's say a big recital or something, cars could park on Pioneer and then they could walk on a sidewalk all the way up to the building, which we said was preferred. And then the second thing is we've noted the school bus currently they they operate with Orno schools. They have a school bus that drops kids off directly at this facility. the school bus theoretically and they don't know exactly how that operation is going to work but could drop at the curb and they could walk up um on a sidewalk rather than having to walk up through the drive aisle or whatever that is. And so that that is that is the majority of what changed the parking the number of spaces the drive aisle location all remains uh as originally proposed and considered by the city. Then as it relates to a couple other just site related this the landscaping I noted they did uh revise the landscaping plan. Kevin I don't know if you can get to it. It's down quite a bit >> up. You missed it. Can you zoom out maybe thing? Uh, go up one more sheet. That's it. >> That is not Well, that's maybe that's not it. That's it. >> There we go. Okay. Um so, a couple of things that um I would note. One is they're proposing to save or preserve the existing trees that are located for the most part along Pioneer Creek. Um and there is a pretty substantial planting that's located on the south side of the property along Pioneer Creek. And then um they have pulled back some of the planting that's on the north side of the building. Um that wasn't directly required by the city. Um and again they're they're just trying to um to the extent possible um establish some uh economy to the to the overall plan. The one thing that I pointed out is they they're showing those existing um kind of tree stands that are located on the property line. Um there's kind of a lot of underbrush in those tree stands and some some more significant overstory, but they're located primarily on the other on the east property. And that was something that the planning commission had noted during our initial review was that we would be looking for more substantial buffer on that um east property line between the residential property to the east and this property. So I just I just want to point that out and we can have a a discussion more if there are comments or any feedback relating to that. The the last thing then as it relates to um it's not I because I'm saving the building architecture for last. Um if we can show the plat from the time that we looked at it and made a comment and recommendation they applicant has updated the plat as well to reflect our recommended comments. And so the plat um originally created a lot one and a lot two block one out of this out of these two lots and we recommended that they create an outlot for the piece that's going to remain with protolabs. um noting that it can't be built on by itself and that outlot designation um would support that that an outlaw can't be developed or subdivided further um without a a bigger um subdivision to occur or a replant of that property. And so they made the change that we had noted. So um then the the last thing that um I talked about in the report is building architecture. really this is what kind of was the the the catalyst for coming back I in order to make sure that we reviewed what is being proposed I thought it was important um so what they've changed is the original building design had kind of a tip up panel uh design um that was um they provided some elevations of what that might look like um and what that might be built uh material-wise what they are proposing to do is change that to a metal uh panel building. Um and then they provide us with the elevations. And so I I thought it was important that this come back before planning commission to just get reviewed. Now I will um note as we noted at the last um uh meeting that we had, we do not have a specific architectural standard, but anytime we go through site plan review and approval, we do review and consider architecture. um as it relates not only to these prop or to this property but also just the character of the surrounding properties um and what is in uh kind of how it would impact fit in um or could otherwise be mitigated if there was any concern with that. So with that that's a that's a really high level overview. I can go into any of the details that we've talked about previously or or go through any of those details um as they have provided you know the full uh submitt to the city. We have done a full review um on that submitt and uh you know pending uh planning commission consideration and if there was a recommendation um it would be based on the conditions that we included in the report. So with that I'd be happy to answer any questions. Um the applicants are here. This is not an official public hearing. Site plans aren't an official public hearing. Um but the preliminary and final plat is. So um we could open it again. Um, we did we did notice it that way. So, >> uh, so just for clarification, do I need to open a public hearing? >> Yeah, we do. We should open it for the preliminary and final plat piece. Yes. >> So, um, let's see. I don't have all my notes. Here we go. All right. So, we will now open the floor of public comments. Please be aware that while we welcome your input, the planning commission cannot take formal action or make decisions. um uh really based off of your input. We will certainly consider it for um uh our actions. Uh please state your name and address and um we will open the public hearing. The current time is or I need a motion to open the public hearing. >> I'll move to open the public hearing. >> Adam moves to open the public hearing. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> David seconds. All in favor say I. I. I. >> All oppose say the same. eyes have at 5 to zero. So, the public hearing is open as of 6:22 p.m. Are there anybody Is there anybody here that would like to make public comment? [laughter] >> Uh, sure. Ryan behind me is executive director of So, thanks for your time. Appreciate it. Very simply, as Mark has stated, we've been working with him on the presented originally back in September. And the only thing that has changed, we haven't changed the footprint of the building. The footprint of the building is still 40,000 square foot. when we were working with that to keep the activities to keep uh the girls and the boys and the ninja zone and all of those within that 40,000 square footprint um we weren't really considering taking any of that footage out. So when we were looking at trying to save that um and going against north side of the site we had 8 foot to 14t of fill we just could not over that's we were at we were at the planning commission getting numbers in. So that's was really what was driving our um look at how can we get this to stay within the community and um we looked at numerous ways we could do it and that's what we're architects with their designers um of Northshore Gymnastics still have at the end what we originally saw. We've got those ends that pop that corners out of main street as well as along where they come in the north side. So, um we tried to keep that presum Um, lot of work. Thanks for your time again to answer any questions. Any questions that you have with us? >> Commissioners, any questions at all? >> Uh, did anything change uh in the landscaping around the parking lot at all? I >> it did >> they did pull some of the plants back um >> from what they had originally proposed and again >> what they had proposed and our standard is our standard on commercial on this industrial is is somewhat um subjective. There's not a a hard standard on everything and so we just say that it has to be landscaped. We do have the buffer requirement on the residential side that we talk about. um in the report, but as it relates to um you know the islands and things like that, um they just have to be planted or or they have to be some kind of plant material. We don't get too specific. Same thing with our tree count. Um so they they did pull some of their landscaping back that they had proposed primarily on the uh north side um on that back side of the parking lot between the parking and the uh wetland and the pond there. They did pull some of that landscaping back out. >> We're keeping more of the trees along the road, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which we had asked to add more back. >> I'm happy to see that for sure. Better to save existing ones than plant new small ones. Um and the you know so you've got four shade trees but u I think even in the industrial area for parking lots we do require um you know parking lot uh like the islands and so forth to be planted landscape. In fact, there's a note in here that's kind of the the ordinance language verbatim talking about landscaping and requirement of having u you know plantings in the parking lot. Um so was that just a financial decision to remove that? >> You know what it was? Yeah, it was when we were retaining wall that's not there anymore. Yeah. >> Yeah. Big. >> Did that lessen the slope in that area as well? Lessen the slope of the hill >> because you took out the sidewalk. >> It does grade that down nicely. Yeah, we took out the sidewalk a little bit along the east side. Be a nice gentle slope. So, um take it down. Um we're down at our floor elevation is at 102. So we will be dropping that down. There will be >> but the amount of slope probably be lessened because of the the elimination of the sidewalk. zoom in might be 16 grades. >> The um you're looking to see how much that area >> I was just curious whether the slope in that area improve, but you know, getting less steep. >> Yeah. >> The result of the sidewalk being eliminated. >> Oh, sure. Yeah. That's not going to be >> It gets less steep for sure. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I mean, this the slope that's proposed is on that whole side is much steeper than what's there now. It's a much more gradual down to the parking lot. So, trying to get that building to come in there and get the swale, they have to come down. But it it we had a retaining wall in there before and if we had the sidewalk that made it steeper yet. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. With the retaining wall. >> Yeah. >> Um what is you know what that slope is by chance? >> Um let me see. >> It's a it I think it's a I think it's a three >> to one. Well, getting back to which is our state, I guess I >> I'd be proponent of bringing some more uh of the landscaping back in around the parking lot. Although I do appreciate and and you know the preservation of the trees in the front. Um east side um you've got the natural vegetation top of the hill. um which provide most of the screening. But I don't know how other commissioners feel about, you know, the um lack of landscaping in the parking lot. >> You're talking about in the interior islands, >> interior islands or, you know, maybe even between the parking lot and the building. >> There is sod that's going in. And you're saying maybe some sort of lower landscaping or foundation landscaping, especially at the front entrance. >> Yeah. I mean, the the parking lot's going to be pretty, you know, um a lot of hard surface. The building is is, you know, big seal box. I mean, I glad see the colors and so forth, but it's have a harsh environment. Um, the other thing maybe I was curious about too is the necessity of the white vinyl fence in the middle of the parking lot. >> Oh, that is a uh that is that >> it's there now. >> No, it's their request. They're selling this and that's part of their sa their condition of the sale is that they create >> and from protoer labs I mean we've talked to them they they don't I mean you could see really easily where this could become overflow parking and they don't want that they really want to make sure it's clearly delineated >> that this is its own piece and it's not going to encroach and you could see where you know I mean if you had a if you had a kid there and you're running late to get get to you might swing into protolab run up to that front middle spot and then walk walk in there. [laughter] >> I think that's their concern, right? I mean that's >> was that in the headlights at night. >> It is gonna it is going to create a harsh edge. There's no question. Yeah, I totally agree with you. >> And the width of that width of that island or median in between the two parking uh bays is fairly narrow, too. >> Super narrow. >> So, cars are be backing up and hitting that fence and it's going to look pretty beat up after not too long of a time. We do. We've got the overhang on both sid if that was part of the deal. >> That was a part of the deal. >> Okay. like Brian said. >> Yeah. And I can see the temptation for overflow parking as well. >> Yeah. Look, it looks like the main plantings removed were in the um just the islands there and then a few trees along I was just looking at the old plan. >> I and not to I I would just note the ordinance that's referenced in the on the landscape is our mixed use ordinance, not our industrial ordinance. >> You sure on that? >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, so we still say everything has to be planted and >> everything else, but we don't have the the space standard in the eye industrial that we have in the MU districts. >> Okay. I thought I was reading the eye district, but I didn't bring it with me. >> No. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm I mean, I wouldn't promise my first kid, maybe my second, but [laughter] I'm pretty confident. Pretty confident. Okay. Well, [laughter] >> I like her better. No, >> they're probably watching, right? [laughter] >> They know already. Come on. Your kids all know. >> But but either way, I think we have the latitude to ask for whatever. So, if it was we want to see some additional landscaping in that front entrance way, I do think you could I think that's a reasonable request. I don't know what the I don't know what the applicant thinks about adding some kind of uh foundation planting around that front door. Um, and then I do think you could get if we wanted, you know, to put something back in those islands, we could look at that also. >> Well, how many islands are there? Um there's really >> there's really there's really three that are plantable. The big corner island and then the two middle islands. >> Yeah. >> The one small island isn't I wouldn't right. I don't think >> Yeah, it's it's probably too small, but >> the corner one might be kind of nice to >> Yeah. That Yeah, that one offset right off the corner of the building and then the entrance would be my my recommendation. So, I think I think we could craft a condition on that. I think we could work with you guys on what that looks like. I I do think for not much, you could probably get a good return on some foundation just around that front entryway. >> Things that we did that we were talking about. So it wasn't so harsh or native hoping that it would work a little bit as you'll see along the front entry as well. A little bit tried to compromise a little bit with that keeping that there. >> Well, it's all irrigated. >> Then you probably have a better chance of getting seed to grow. >> That's a lot of sod on that south side for sure. >> So, we removed that retaining wall. in tried to soften it. >> The entryway remains the same. >> The entrance drive, you mean >> the entrance? >> Yeah. >> Are are there plantings there now or u just Couple trees on the west side >> where the entrance is going now. That's a ingress. Egress now. >> No, that where this driveway is coming in. >> Is that Is that But that's a new driveway, isn't it? >> No. >> No. Go back. >> It's the existing. >> My question, I guess, is is there existing landscaping? >> Yes. Drive. >> Not Not that's going to be impacted though. >> Okay. So you can see there's a trees just to the south of that. Yeah. >> And then just to the north and that's what's there now. >> Yeah. I see. >> Except for the one that they're putting in. >> Yeah. It looks like there's a swale that's being cut in there um that will redo that part of the landscaping. >> I don't see one there. That hasn't changed. [laughter] >> Oh, that's good. >> So, that'll be modified. That'll look good. There'll be somes right now. >> There's one tree there that's going to come out. Commissioners, any other questions or clarifications? >> Any comments on the architecture? >> Oh, I think for metal building it look nice. I appreciate that they're keeping the the color and the a little bit of variation on the end. Um there's the metal buildings, the storage buildings kind of across the street there as well. So, it's an industrial area. I don't too much concern that the backside or the east side's a little more plain, but I understand that's the back side of the building. So, what about lighting, parking lot lighting, that type of stuff? And is that parking lot lighting going in there? >> Yeah. So, I can um it's in the it's in the packet. um the overall photometric plan, but the applicant did update their photometric plan. We review that >> to look at parking lot lighting and they did provide the city with cut sheets as requested and they are cut off type fixtures. Um so all of the all the fixtures on the building as well as the parking lot lights will be a cut off um full cut off fixture which is consistent with our ordinance. Yeah. So, but we did review that photometric plan. >> So, there's discussion about a residential neighbor, but that the residence itself is quite a distance, isn't it? >> It is considerable distance. And you can see, so on the bottom of this image is the part of the building that would um face the residential property. And so we look at the foot candle levels at the property line to ensure that they meet our requirement. Um and so that's what this plan verifies. >> I'm assume Portal Labs has lighting already. That's >> they do. Yep. >> Within city spec or is that grandfathered in? >> No, theirs is so anything on the parking on this side of their building is actually within new spec because they did it uh 10 years, eight years ago. I don't remember when we did that lot. Um 17 was the year. So yeah, 2017. If you go to the west side of their building, they would potentially have lighting that's grandfathered from a previous site plan. But 100% of this lighting would be uh compliant with our current standard. >> So it doesn't really raise the overall glow of that area significantly, this change. >> Well, that I mean that parking lot's going to be lit. Um it does change, you know, there there's going to be some maybe additional on that south side of the building, but com I mean they do have lighting up there now. Um and all of the lighting will be compliant and at least the light levels will be shut off at or cut off by the property line. Um I don't think it's going to be that significant. It will also though block the rest of protoab. So >> from that perspective, I think it's probably probably a win in terms of what it might do >> from a from the residential property side >> from where it is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And there are one, two, three. I think there's three lights already along that southern uh eastern property line that exist in the parking lot. >> East is the bottom of the picture. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, where the old parking is, there are three poles along that old parking lot um that border that residential property. So, they're putting two wall packs on the back side of that building. Um >> are those are those going to be there? I'm actually questioning whether or not you're going to have those two wall packs on the east side of the building. >> Um, >> there's no doors there. So, are those necessary? several building itself. >> Yeah. >> And I think it's right now I think with most cities it's that low light standards that we have to that we gave that addresses that that we do have the correct specifications for those wall mounted. >> That's good to hear. Yeah. So, they're going to point down. >> Yeah. If you eliminate the two on that east side, >> I don't see anything. I I wonder if that I wonder if they just missed that in that update. Either way, those lights do cut off at the property line fully and our standard goes to a half a foot candle on a residential property, but they're they're zero. Um, >> when it gets >> low compared to >> they're they're going to be low, but I don't I'm looking at the building elevation. Of course, you don't have I mean, it doesn't have the full light package on that, but I just am questioning whether or not you're going to have any lights on that east >> because before you had a door there, >> which is understand >> sidewalk to light. So that was probably yeah for that for that purpose. >> It' be better if they were removed. >> So remove remove two lights and plant two two trees. [laughter] >> There you go. I like it. >> Wash >> trees might be cheaper than the lights. >> You might be you might be ahead. >> Yeah. the time you wire those >> thoughtful that neighbor, you know, said you can remove some lights which is great and then you can have cut down lights and you know somebody has property and acorage it's nice that you're not overwhelmed with unnecessary light because it just wasn't really considered as an issue from a safety side. I can see where it make a lot of sense, you know, to have those lights there. But maybe they could be down below or like you said low grade even, you know, that's I think it's like a 15 foot slope, isn't it? All >> it is. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you put your lights down at 15 feet or something and don't have to be up at 34. [laughter] >> Well, the the initial plan had a sidewalk back there. Those lights look like they were >> Yeah. >> at each of the doors that >> I think so. Yeah, >> I think that's just a >> word. Okay, >> thank you. >> Can you remind me what is the plan for the sort of privacy buffer against that residential side? >> So, so right now there's just an there's a couple of existing um I mean there's an existing kind of treed area. It's not really significant overstory, but it's it's kind of underbrush scrub trees. Um there's not like a high level visibility from the residential property towards this because it does drop off. So their property sits quite a bit higher and then where the house is is quite a distance from here. Um, so their intent is just to leave the majority of that existing vegetative buffer and then use the slope and the and the grade change as the >> is the separation. >> Is the vegetation on this property or on the residential property? Residential. Is that agricultural field? >> It is an agricultural field. Okay. >> Looks like there's a like a horse barn little >> It is. Yeah. have like a little hay field there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's the barn is some distance away from the property line. >> Yeah. >> But this might be a future residential development in at some point. >> That's and that's in the That's what I was thinking. Farms have a habit of turning into >> new houses. But but maybe that's a concern for when that when and if that happens. I guess >> that property is outside of Maple Plane, correct? >> It is. That's City of Independence. I Okay. Yeah, I think um I mean I think you know generally you you would have the I mean to the extent our ordinance says that we require buffer we have to determine whether or not they they meet the separation requirement. It's more so do we want additional vegetation. The ideal place to plant that would not be on the downward slope of this property. >> It would be on the uphill side of the residential property. I think I think you could make that finding that rather than >> the bottom we could >> where the building's going to be positioned is actually >> be any future anything future built on the land that would >> it's kind of tucked closer to the um >> other industrial property. >> Yeah. The manor. Yeah. >> Electric. And then like their their barn is it is going to block any views from the residential house >> for sure. Yeah. Today >> today >> today it's blocked. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I even feel like when we first saw this we were talking about do we have some sort of privacy thing there? But it was tough because you had the slope, you had a retaining wall, you had all these other factor. The property line is there. You really couldn't fit something to provide the buffer from the property line. but then also fit the building back there as well as get proper drainage. So, there were a lot of factors that were like maybe that's not going to work. So, >> 15t grade your building's sunk down, but I don't think it's going to be an issue >> outside. No further comments from the public. So, I need a motion to close the public hearing. >> I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. >> Stephan makes a motion to close the public hearing. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Uh Nick seconds. All in favor say I. >> I. All oppose say the same. >> Eyes have it. Five to zero. The public hearing is closed as of 6:49 p.m. Thanks everyone for sharing. Um appreciate you being here um and answering our questions and just providing some insight. So, um, really in the end, I think it's a matter of getting a motion to, uh, approve the the final plat, the site plan review, and, uh, recommend, uh, that the city council reviews this with the proposed changes. Um, I think I heard with the conditions that we would be essentially removing two lights and adding two trees, but maybe a little more. Yeah, that that was kind of tongue and cheek, but y >> uh adding additional landscaping at the entrance and uh parking lot corner. >> Yep. So, really it's a motion to um approve the updates to the site plan review uh the pre preliminary and final plat um with the added conditions of uh increasing landscaping in the parking lot islands. And actually what I would recommend is if if you approve it that way or recommend approval, then we have a condition in there on landscaping, but it's not exactly this. So I we just modify condition to B of our of our conditions to include that language you just said. So >> okay, >> I think we could approve it with the staff report conditions with the modification to 2B that we just noted. That would be good. >> Who wants to make a motion for that? 2 2B is that is that just in reference to the east property line? >> Right now it's in reference. We would modify that. They would provide additional landscaping as directed by the planning commission and we would say in front of the building at the building entrance and in the planter islands. >> Gotcha. So really it's um uh with the recommendation that 2B be edited to include front of the building and >> Yeah. >> Yep. That's right. >> Make a motion. Does that effect? >> Okay. Stefan makes a motion. Can I get a second? >> I'll second the motion. >> Adam Seconds the motion. All in favor say I. >> I. All oppose say the same. Eyes have it. Five to zero. >> Great. This will go to the city council on December 15th. >> Good luck with your project. >> Yep. Good luck. I'll drive by. Um, okay. Um, any Let's see. So, one thing we forgot to do is introduce ourselves. So, to our new I mean, we had on the on as we came in. So, I'll start. Um, my name is Jared. I live over in 5375 Choice Street which is on the mother side of Highway 12, part of the Bryantwood neighborhood. Um been living here for about four working on five years. I got two kids. Um one of them is 5 years old, the other is two years old. So um we certainly got our hands full there. And um I actually graduated from Orno um back in uh uh 2008. So, we're all kind I'm kind of returning to the area. I actually grew up in St. Louis Park and came out this direction just because it was a smaller high school that I could get involved with when it came to sports and other things. So, um but yeah, that's me, Nick or Stefan? >> Yeah, I'm Stefan Sherson. Um the planning commission maybe 20 years. Wow. [laughter] Are we supposed to have a party for that or something? >> Yeah. Well, [laughter] >> um like a lot of the younger members or new members here, I you know, moved to Maple Plane, uh a young family. Um nice place to to raise a family. Uh smaller school system so the kids can get more engaged in whatever activities they want to get involved in. U my kids are now Uh, one's out of college and one's about to be out of college. So, it's worked out well. Um, my background, I'm a land, as you can tell by my comments, I'm a landscape architect [laughter] uh for Three Rivers Park District uh at least for a couple more months. I'm actually retiring. >> Really? >> Congratulations on that. >> Hey, that's great. >> Um, >> before the kids are done with college, huh? >> Well, I got one more semester. >> Okay. Um so um yeah uh born and raised in Minnesota, schoolled at Madison, lived at various places around the country. Um and uh before the plane lived in in Minneapolis near Lake um and uh um yeah, so that's me. >> Thank you. Um, Adam, I live in 1495 Wyman over in the Brentwood neighborhood by the Haven Homes building. Um, in Maple Plane for up on seven years already. I've been on the commission five or six years now. Um, I worked for Ryan Company's a architect that specializes in healthcare. Um, my wife grew up here. So, after we had our daughter, we moved home. I grew up further west here in Minnesota as well. Lived all over the country prior to moving. >> Nice to meet you guys. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, >> there's other business. Yeah. >> I guess I just want to note the was it what's the fiber going in? MCO >> Midco Midco. Yep. have not been impressed with their disruption of yards and replanting of soil. >> I second that motion. >> They've been you have the 800 number to call to voice those concerns >> like to them or to >> midco or Jacob can get it for you. Um because I had that issue and I called them and I'd say within three days they were out there patching the divot they left when they parked on the grass in the mud. >> Okay. >> I know a lot of people who just had a lot of new sod put in with >> Yeah. Call the special number. >> They're their responsive. >> Okay. >> If it was a different provider >> Okay. I less responsive. >> I did call them actually. >> You tried? >> They called me because, you know, I had kind of partially signed up, but was, you know, on the list to maybe have it installed when they brought it in. So, they called me um and I mentioned the the sod work uh from my house. What they did uh you know, they dug the hole besides the big divots and the big uh you know, ruts that they created to the lawn. Uh they dug up the soil, made a pile, then rather than separating the top soil, they mixed the clay with the top soil, put it all back as, you know, one big mess and compacted the heck out of it. >> I couldn't even get a shovel. It was so compacted and so hard. >> You know, it was this fall, not too long after they did it. I mean, it was just rock hard. >> Uh I I spent hours digging it out, bringing in better soil. um they did come out uh and tried to remedy, but all they did was sprinkle like an inch of top soil and threw some seed on top of that to grow. So, >> um I I expressed what I just expressed now to them and I'm not sure what they can do about it. I I I don't want them to do anything now because I've already fixed it, but I thought they I thought they should know. Um, you know, they they we kind of regrad it and again threw some fell down and made it look like it was restored, but underneath it was rock hard. >> Yeah. Just give a call to that number. >> Yeah. >> Until you're satisfied. >> Yeah. Right now it's all covered in snow, but yeah. Like [laughter] luckily we only had a little patch, but I know like some of the neighbors lawns look pretty bad. >> Yeah. the contractor that they hired out, whatever they're on with their second one, third one. >> They're on their second contractor. >> Yeah. >> The first one was not uh up to par and had a lot of issues. >> They're also a little annoying that just like blocking their wasing their trucks in the road. Come on guys, like live here. >> Yeah. Yeah. But if you call that 800 number and lay out the issues, they're very responsive. >> Yeah. Good enough to call. >> Yeah, Kevin and Jacob have the phone number. >> Okay, we might have a Yeah, I'll just see. If not, I'll reach out to you. >> Another business. Just ask a background question. >> Sure. >> The quick trip. >> What's the conversation about once that opens and how traffic flow is going to change? Is there like a long-term plan or anything that's ever been discussed? I just have no idea what the context is, but that's going to change that whole intersection dynamic like believably. Obviously, >> it was part of the discussions that we had when uh the quick trip uh proposal was presented to us. Um and part of it is Highway 12 is Minnesota, >> right? >> The state of Minnesota, right? And then the other part was the state of Minnesota wasn't going to allow any additional turnoffs. So that's where we kind of had to keep it the way it was. And I know Mark probably has more detail that he can describe, but that's what I recall is like we really had our hands tied as to what we could >> actually change up. So >> yeah, and Gateway Boulevard is going to be more used more as a street instead of access to a parking lot. >> So that could be regulated as a oneway potentially if there's a problem or something by the city. >> Yes. >> Okay. Just >> asking but I'm assuming M do when >> MN dot >> Michigan is just M do [laughter] >> not MI >> is there like some planet they're going to do traffic counts or do they study this over some time >> so so when the developer came in with that when Quick Trip came in so there's there's three entities so there's um Maple Plane we have Gateway Boulevard there's Baker Park Road which is county road 29 so it's Henipin County And then there's Highway 12. So we had we had three entities looking at that, but there was an analysis done on traffic. Quicktrip provided us with counts. U we had a lot of conversation with Mindot on that intersection. The the issue is we don't have a we mind doesn't have a global solution that would help us on that corridor. Um and so then Henman County has uh plans to um update the the Baker Park piece, but we're still going to have I think long term some stacking issues on that corridor until we can do something better on the Highway 12 corridor. Um, so all those conversations were had at the end of the day that I mean the city wanted that development >> but enough >> and Mand hasn't come back and said hey we're going to look at this over a year and come back with some re >> No they did they did they did yeah they they do a full plan review >> got a full kind of tide you said in general or >> yeah I mean they um >> yeah what MDOT doesn't I mean MDOT didn't allow access commented on their access but when we looked at the numbers. I mean, stacking wise and traffic flow, that's a a really high traffic corridor. So, Quick Trip's not going to necessarily add to that um traffic flow. It's already going to be ex they they when they do that study and they do that analysis, there's a pretty significant piece of that traffic that is is um what do we call it? I forget that term, but we call it um already there traffic, right? It's already it's already using the highway and it's just going to be getting on and getting off. to see that Baker Park Road is just going to be backed up [snorts] and I don't know what the access is going to be. >> Long term, we need a new access management for Baker Park Road. >> So, historically, Menow's been pretty resistant to providing additional access points. In fact, they wanted to close Bud >> uh Bud Avenue as well back in the day. >> They did. And it was not too long ago when uh Haven Homes was constructed. That's when Gateway Boulevard was constructed. Before it was was not a through street at all. >> Oh, >> which would have been even worse if it's just coming in and out of uh Howard, right? >> The bigger issue is going to be Gateway Boulevard if there needs to be some kind of a speed bump or something. >> Yeah. >> People going into Iron Exchange and the stores there. pedestrian. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that might potentially be >> as big of a problem as stacking on big. >> I see that more of a concern than big that in the mornings that stacks up now. Like I don't >> that parking lot's going to become a nightmare. >> You know, driving through by the air exchange, that whole area. Wow. >> Technically, it's not a parking lot. Technically, it is a city platted road that goes in front. So, the idea is that that is going to become more of an urbanized like urban street instead of a parking lot. >> Yeah. I don't think there's paint lines down it or Yeah. >> you got like 47 access points on that one. >> Yeah. >> Exaggerating, but yeah, I go through there so slowly. >> Yeah. >> There's just so many different, >> you know, not a lot of traffic in it unfortunately. But it's going to change, >> right? >> There's lots of people that walk back. >> Correct. Yeah. So I go through there very slowly and I can imagine that's >> will probably end up happening evening. It's going to be >> you either make a right turn into Holiday or you make the right turn into Quick Trip depending on which way you're going. So >> yeah, >> cross. >> No, I think I think the traffic's going to come down gateway and pull into Quick Trip because you're not going to be able to make a left turn >> into >> Gateway. I don't think you're going be to make a left turn. So I think all the traffic's going to come down gateway. A lot of it will. >> Yeah, I think you're right. I think people go through the light, make a left turn, turn on gateway and come back. >> Oh, we will December 11th. We'll see. >> It's coming. >> I think the morning traffic a lot of the commuters are going to stop at the D quick trip on the way the evening >> in and then at this one on the way home. >> Absolutely. It's going to be interesting to watch. >> Yeah, we're over just I didn't say we're on West Main Street. So, >> okay. >> We come down. We take the left turn on to Hogrin and then sit at that stop light for 15 minutes and >> Yeah. your calisthenics before you get your green light at certain times of the day. >> Yes. >> Now that Highway 12 obviously is We love being next to Highway 12 because >> Yep. >> accessible to everything. >> Yeah. >> My daughter's down to Orno by Stubbed Bay and I think it's 12 minutes off of Highway 12 to get to her house. She's like, "Wow, your house is so easy to get." >> Yep. >> Yeah. We will we will have a January meeting. Uh I'm I'm like 99% sure and it will be to talk about the downtown redevelopment project. So >> some kind of fun discussion. >> Got some interest though. >> We've got a I mean we've got a fullblown submitt and a purchase agreement signed and uh there's a full entitlement package that we're in the process of reviewing right now. a chance that we can get a preview of that be, you know, longer before the meeting than typical? >> You sure? >> Yeah. >> Is there anything available online now or >> No. Um >> you did have um stuff for the city council like there's a proposed >> Yeah. and and that was more the initial site plan went to EDA and then council. Um more on the purchase agreement side to enter into that purchase agreement. >> Y >> the plans that we've received have been we've had them for a couple weeks now and we're we've got our first round of comments that are just going back to them. >> Um they had originally targeted this meeting and we said no not not close. Um but at the same time the city's doing a feasibility study and they've kicked off a feasibility study for uh street reconstruction on Maine Maple Delano Spring and um >> Pioneer is that Pioneer is the fire station one. >> Yeah. >> Pioneer. Yeah. So kind of that whole that whole quadrant of the city >> is going to get is is going to be studied under this feasibility study >> just for pavement management or to kind of redesign >> utility re reconstruct utilities and redesign at least at least the main and maple block. >> Okay. Including the streetscape aspects. >> Yeah. And there there's actually Yeah. There there's actually like Um I mean there's going to be some streetscape discussion that's going to occur at the planning commission meeting. So >> good. >> Yeah. Uh but I mean we have a full package. I mean so this is this is moving. They and they um so we had a purchase agreement. It has it's a we restructured all our purchase agreements or we restructured the purchase agreements we use historically as I think some of you know this has been under contract right eight times in the past >> 15 20 years um and a lot of our purchase agreements were they had a long runway on those but with no checkpoints. So we'd give them a purchase agreement they basically get a year to go through it and then if they failed or or decided not to move forward then we were kind of starting over. Um, this one had we've changed that. We kind of decide we put together a different um way to do it where um they get 60-day increments and they have to pay more money as they go through that process. So, we just entered into our our second phase of our purchase agreement and they committed now hard money, non-refundable. Um, this is a serious like deal that we have with these guys. So now it's can we put it all together and make it what we want. >> Um it does not contain the retail component that we all want. Um but that's a decision that council and EDA decided to move forward with. But so yeah, so January I hope we have that. That's a that's a our our next big thing. So >> has there been any update on the apartment building at Veterans Park? that >> they're not they're not moving forward. They're it's just interest rates and >> and uh market right now. >> Yeah. >> They still purchase the land or did that >> He owns the land. Okay. >> Yeah. So they're I mean they're an owner. Yeah. >> He's just sitting on it. Yeah. >> So >> they kind of indefinitely withdrew their application. >> Okay. >> This is going to be a ch I mean this will be a competing because what we're what's being proposed a 71 unit market rate apartment building. So that will eat that market share. >> Yeah. >> So we'll see what that does. But I think it would be really good in the long run because you're talking about a redevelopment piece in your downtown. You're talking about streetscape and trying to create some hub activity down there. So yeah, kind of exciting. >> All right. With uh if there's nothing else, then I need to Oh, yep. Kevin, >> uh the January, um county commission meeting, uh with the holiday that's up. Yes. Up, >> uh it's actually going to be delayed two weeks. So, it's going to happen on January 15th, not on January 1st. >> That was because of Jacob's birthday, though. Right. >> Right. [laughter] >> Nothing to do with anything. >> New Year's Day. [laughter] >> So, okay. Yeah. So, uh, January's planning commission meeting will be January 15th rather than January 1st. >> 1st. >> Um, otherwise, uh, I need a motion to adjourn. >> I'll move to adjourn the meeting. >> Adam moves to adjourn the meeting. Can I get a second? >> I'll second. >> David seconds. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> All oppose say the same. Uh, eyes have it five to zero. And we are adjourned for today. This evening time is 7:11.