Good afternoon. I call the meetingSeptember 3rd uh meeting of the Melissa Mark Hortman Memorial State Park workinggroup uh to order. We do have a quorum. First order of business is the approvalof the previous meetings. Uh represent Clayborn.>> Thank you. I move that the minutes be adopted as written.>> It's been moved. Uh are there any uh questions or changes?Hearing none. All in favor of the minutes as uh sent out signify by sayingI. >> I oppose. N>> I >> motion carries and the minutes areapproved. We've got several presentations that we're going to begoing through today. So, we're going to have a pretty packed day. Uh uh firstone that we're going to have is going to be on what several of the other state uhcapital malls have done in other states and we're going to have Mr. AndrewGeorge making the giving us a presentation on what he's found on threedifferent states that have uh uh worked with this concept.So, with that, I welcome Mr. George to our table there. And uh anytime you'reready, go ahead and kick us off. Thank you, Mr. Chair and members. Umuh my name is Andrew George. I'm nonpartisan staff with the LCC. I'm Mr.Turman's colleague. I'm filling in for him today. He's out of town. Um and weI'll be going through his presentation essentially, but but I um that that weat the LCC put together. Um these are uh state capital malls that that we founduh are uh formally uh designated as state parks. So um a brief just a walkthrough of whatwe'll be we'll be covering. Um three states that we found California, Oregon,and Tennessee um have that have some areas aroundtheir capital building that are designated as a state park. Um uh somesome other states have malls that that represent um uh resemble the malls uh uhuh discussed or parks discussed in this presentation but are not formally partof a state park system. They'll have a green spaces and monuments and memorialsand tours and things like that. Um but this presentation will cover how eachpark received the designation uh what each park offers um and how each park isadministered um um for for each uh California, Oregon and Tennessee.Um California, we'll start with this map shows the uh Capital Park in Sacramento.Uh it extends uh um 40 it's 40 acres. It extends from 9th Street on the the westside uh to 15th. Um let's see. Uh it offers uh tourism programs uh guidedtours uh has hosts memorials and monuments. Um and uh its grounds has umtrees and and uh uh uh other other foliage um and and a rose garden and andother gardens. Um let's see. And then administratively,the California Department of Parks and Recre runs the museum uh staffs thevisitor and tour program uh and includes all uh which includesall of the capital park and administers the park's interpretive and educationalofferings. The the park department of parks and recreation was contracted totake those duties from the legislature in the 1990s.Um the department of general services handles the physical operations and themaintenance of the park. Um and then there's two uh uh bodies. The jointrules committee uh of the uh made up of uh senate and assembly members inCalifornia that must approve any development improvement or physicalchange to Capital Park. Um and then the historical uh state capital commissionuh is an advisory uh uh body that um reviews maintenance, restoration andmanagement decisions for the capital. Um and then I did it's not listed here butfor uh in terms of security the park itself um has uh receives security fromthe California Highway Patrol. Um, and then the city police on the streetsaround the park. Um, and then in the Capitol building, it's Cal CaliforniaHighway Patrol and the the uh Senate and Assembly uh sergeants office offices. Uh, the California the capital park inCalifornia. Um, the park grounds itself they themselves were established in1860. Um, but the the park itself joined the state park system in 1982.Um we couldn't find any concrete um information of how that park enteredinto the the park system. It's it's a little vague. Um um but the uhDepartment of Parks and Reccks involvement began in in the planning upto joining the state park system in 1982.In 2012, um the historic state capital commission's advisory authority expandedto include um the the park from just the capital uh building itself. I'll shift to Oregon. Um, so the uh Oregon State Capital StatePark in Salem was designated um as a state park in 2008 and it it uh uh runs21 acres and it merged uh three different parks into one state park.Um and then uh additionally members youhave uh the bill this the bill language that created the state park in yourfolders as well. Similarly um there's um sorry uhmemorials uh and monuments on the park uh landscaping and and tours uh and andgreen space. The uh Yep. and and uh a guided tour umof the building is run through the legislature and not the park system aswell. The administration is divided. Um thelegislative administration committee holds exclusive control over the thecapital building itself. Uh the Oregon uh parks and recreation departmentmanages the landscaping, the fountains, the visitor amenities, but has noauthority over the building um that sit inside the park boundary. Um, and thenthere's uh the the Capital Planning Commission that reviews developmentproposals and coordinates capital area planning. Uh, and then the the OregonState Police provides security. Uh, for funding, I have uh the there's alegislative operating account that reimbures the uh the Department of Parksand Recreation for the for the share of grounds maintenance and utilities. Uh, represent Clayurn. >> Mr. George, uh, Mr. Chair,Representative Clebornne, uh, I have a note here, and again, Mr. Turva put thistogether, but, uh, there's a legislative operating account that reimbures theOregon Department of Parks and Recreation for a share of ground for fortheir for its share of ground maintenance and utilities. Yeah.>> Any other questions? Represent Clayart. >> Okay.>> Pinch hitting today. >> Okay. Uh any other questions at this uhup to this point? Uh and I'll let you continue. I do have uh one is I'mlooking at the uh it mentioned tours uh that the tours are self-guided walkingtours. Uh does that mean that they did not have any uh kind of like California?California had different uh things that were planned throughout the day. SoOregon does not have anything like that. Mr. George.>> Uh Mr. Chair, the notes I have that there's a self-guided uh tour of thepark itself. Uh there is guided tours in the building which is not run by thepark system. Um Mr. determine and I will follow up for with with the the actualum the the split between the park system the parks and the the building itself.Um we we'll get some more information on that.>> Okay. Thank you. Uh continue with your presentation. >> TheOregon uh Capital State Park was established um directly by statute whichis different than California um which was created administratively. Um uh itdefines th this um again you have this in your your packets but it defines thepark's boundaries um and um it essentially it was already stateownedand it just put it into uh into statute where where the park is and andadministratively who runs what on the park land. And then I'll shift to Tennesseeuh with the Tennessee uh bsentennial Capitol Mall uh state park uh inNashville. This uh park, you can kind of see it there. It extends it. It is thestate park boundaries itself are just the mall. Um so no buildings that sit uhin the capital area or on this state parks uh uh footprint is what we havefound. Um the capital building itself isn't isn't even on this map. It's belowthat curved road um on the on the B on the bottom there. Um so it's just themall. Um um and it was uh developed it opened in uh 1996 uh 20 acres and it wasdeveloped as a monument to celebrate Tennessee's 200th anniversary ofstatehood. Um the land itself was was not green. It was parking lots and andbuildings and um they wanted to preserve uh um my understanding they wanted topreserve views of the capital and and um uh more more green space around thecapital. So this land was acquired and and turned into a a mall and then it'sit's it state park. Uh so planning for that began in 1985 and and constructionin 1993 and then it was opened in 1996. um for offerings, similar uh uhofferings, memorials and monuments, uh landscape features, uh and tours. Uhthere's guided tours of the the mall itself from park rangers. Um and uhthere's a visitor center and and and other amenities. for administration. The uh Department ofGeneral Services maintains the capital building, which again is not part of thethe park uh uh area itself. Uh the Department of Environment andConservation uh operates the park uh day-to-day staffing uh programming andmaintenance. Um and then there's there's two other commissions. the the statecapital commission authority over the capital building. Um uh it has narrowauthority over the mall and the the part the state park and the mall itself. Umit's limited to com uh commemorative uh um uh memorials and things like likestatues and monuments. Um and then there's the state building commissionthe this which must sign off before proceeding on monument decisions of thecapital commission. um establishment. Uh the department ofenvironment and conservation uh lets the department um it classifies parksadministratively. Um so uh uh the their their state statute lets the departmentdesignate state park system units. Um not requiring legislation to form thepark. Um the state building commission approved the construction plan in 1993and then it received funding from federal and state funds. Uh this will be just a a summary slideum with with how the how the park was created um where it's located in intheir state statutes um any any new legislation um affecting or or uh withwith um authority over the park uh area um since the park was created. So forfor Oregon, Tennessee, and California. Um that Mr. Chair and members is is Mr.Turman's in and my uh presentation. Uh um I'm happy to answer any questions. Ican do my best with answering them. I might uh uh take a rain check and andconsult with Mr. Turman and he can get back to you as well.>> Well, thank you, Mr. George. Uh open up, uh Representative Claybourne.>> Thank you. And Mr. George, um on page 14 where it talks about the 5.8 8 millionin local match. I'm wondering, do you know or could youfind out for us for a future meeting if there was a separate like 501c3 orsomething established to receive local match funds?And again, I don't expect you to have an answer today, but if you could um see ifwe could get that information later, >> Mr. Charge.>> Uh Mr. Mr. Chair and Representative Cleorne, we'll be happy to look intothat. >> Thank you so much.>> Other questions? Uh, Miss Held, >> uh, going back to California, is thereany way to also find out kind of the financing for the Department of GeneralServices on if they maintain the physical operations and maintenance ofthe park and just kind of how that incorporates since I think Oregon wehave an idea of how that's funded. Um, Mr. Chair and Miss Hel,we'll uh we'll follow up with that question as well. Yeah.>> Okay. Other questions? Uh, assistant Commissioner Meyer.>> Mr. Chair, on that note, I'm looking at this legislation, Senate Bill 632, andit it states that they they're appropriated continuously funding to thelegislative administration to pay the expenses. It'd be good to know if theyhave any dedicated or continuing funding for these operations as well and like anopen appropriation or something that wouldn't need to be appropriated and orby annually by legis by the legislation. >> Mr. George.>> Yeah, Mr. Chair and uh Mr. Meyer will will confirm that as well. I I doremember seeing that in the statute and and>> yeah, I'm not sure if it's annually by annually just a a you know tapping offthe fund every whenever it is. Yeah, that's a good question. We'll look intothat as well. >> Thank uh Mayor Her.>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And Mr. I don't know if this is necessarily a questionfor uh our presenter or maybe something I could just say out loud to for thisgroup but I would say that there's already a mechanism which the way thatwe fund regional parks here in our state that in 1985 state Minnesota promisedlike the metro regional agencies that like they would pay for 40% of theoperating cost of these parks. These are regional parks and right now though thestate only pays 10% of that cost and so I don't know if there's somethingalready in statute around state parks versus but I know there is alreadysomething on regional parks and so I don't know if it's necessarily somethingwe would create brand new or if it was something that would be similar we couldlook at it from there but I will say as a as a city that has a very largeregional park it is very costly for us to manage that on our own and with thisbeing in the in St. Paul here. I would want to make sure that if that whateverfunding source comes through that that actually is allocated so that um theresponsibility doesn't just fall back in the city of St. Paul. I I want this parkand I love it idea of it. I just want to make sure that St. Paul's tax uh payersaren't the ones who end up paying for the cost of managing the park becauseright now we only get 10% of the 40% promised to us and that's in statestatute right now for regional parks. >> Okay. Uh thank you Mayor Her. I'm makinga quick note on it uh for myself. Uh other comments orquestions? Uh one of the things Oh, uh RepublicClayborn. >> Yes. And I I don't know if this is acontinuation of Mr. Meyer's question to you, but on line 12 there's theestablishment of the Oregon State Capital Foundation Fund. and to find outif that's a nonprofit or and and maybe I mean I can look up at the statute myselftoo, but to have that presented later again uh to the entire body I thinkwould be good. So it's on lines 12 through 17 ofthe Senate Bill 632 of Oregon. Thank you.>> And then lines 18 through 23 also talk about soliciting the donations wherethey're authorized to go ahead and do that. No, the same questions that that'sthe same question I would have Mr. George.>> Yep. Other comments. Mr. George, thank you so much for thepresentation. Appreciate it. This will be this will be the issue particularlyon the funding that we'll be coming back to. And I know at the next meeting thatwe're looking having a presentation from the Department of Revenue, how wouldthings need to be set up or we'd have to keep in mind for tax deductiblecontributions to come in? >> Oh, I'm sorry. Represent Schultz has aquestion. Uh, Mr. George, if you'd like to pop back and I'm sorry, uh,Representative Schultz, uh, if you'd like to go ahead out there.>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, my quick question is in our research over theseother state parks. What I'm reading here in the presentation is that uh, therereally wasn't a whole lot of additional programming provided. I just wanted toconfirm that with Mr. George. You know, we've talked a lot about activation ofspaces here uh, for our state capital. And is it true that across these threestates that there isn't a whole lot of additional activation of station uh ofspaces beyond the public tours of the capital building? That's the only thingthat I saw throughout this presentation. If you could just confirm that for me.Thank you, >> Mr. George.>> Uh Mr. Chair and Representative Schultz, I I think it's prettyI don't know if I'll I'll speak to that generally there there's the similaritiesof of memorials, landscaping involving some some you know the the green spaceand and beautifification of of the capital area if that's the mall itselfor an area around the mall. Uh and then tours I um I'm seeing that similarity aswell. Um so so uh creating additional programminguh speaking to that um there there's this that similarity between all thesethree um if I understand your question correctly and um in what is provided ineach each park um >> uh and miss uh represent Claybourne hasher hands up. I wonder if she's you're regarding slide four.>> Um go ahead. >> I'm actually looking at slide 12.Representative Schultz, you know, there's a 2,000 seat terraceamphitheater. I'm I'm assuming that that means that there would be some sort ofum in Tennessee in Nashville, that there would be some sort of probably musicthat would be u brought also to the state capital, much like the temporaryice rink that I'm excited is a potential. [laughter] So, um, you know,that would be a regional thing, I would I would think, but, uh, and then thereare planters and walkways that feature, uh, different types of species fromdifferent regions of the state as well. So, that seems to me as though it mightbe a little bit more of an expansion than just the me the memorials.>> And then the question uh, that I have for Mr. Andrew, I notice on slide four,it says that they have free guided tours of the capital park and this is theCalifornia one. maybe getting some more details what that involved in that uhcategory. Uh and then uh Representative Schultz, did you have further questionsor comments? >> Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. Just inresponse to uh Representative Clelebourne, uh you know, when I look atthis, uh it does look like there's the space. Uh what I'm uh to this point notseeing is the entity and the um operator that is uh gearing and creating events.And instead what I'm seeing here throughout each one of these is that thespaces exist. Um and you know to a certain extent I think that we have thatalready in our own state capital area and um and at the same time what it whatit doesn't present to this point is how the park specifically creates um theprogramming right um and and by the way like I know that I could even visualizemyself using um an ice rink and and playing broomall in the middle of winterin St. Paul and at the same time someone has to carry that responsibility rightand um and and that's where I think that I'm still trying to grasp how we'regoing to do that right we we seem as whether it's this particular group offolks gathered here to talk about this or um or whether it's talking about uhthe catboard and others we have struggled with who is the entity that isgoing to create programming and to this point these examples don't appear uh toshow um that entity that is creating programming even event-based programmingum beyond just having the space the amphitheater uh to your pointrepresentative. So I just wanted to mention that um for our for the purposesof our conversation. Thank you Mr. Chair.>> Mr. George >> I was sorry represent Clay.>> Yes thank you. Um I see on slide one on slide 13 um it states that the forNashville at least that um the department of environment andconservation I I don't know what the equivalent representative Schultz wouldthis would be in the state of Minnesota but it says they are the ones who areresponsible for coordinating programming.>> Representative Schultz any further questions or comments?Uh not hearing any. Uh I do have a couple others. This is going back to theTennessee one is I notic it was saying tour guided tours are available frompark ranger. It' be good to know a little bit more what the details are inthat. Is that year round? Is it only certain times of the year that they doit? Is it throughout the entire day? And then I also noticed they had the visitthe visitor center, restroom, and gift shop. It be it'd be nice to know alittle bit more details about how they set set that up and and ran that wholeoperation. Uh is it uh self- sustaining with sales out of the visitor center andthat type of thing. So I'd be real curious to know more about those detailsthere. And then looking around not seeing anyothers I would say Mr. George thank you. And we will then move on to our nextpresentation which I think will be a little bit longer. And there's a lot ofinformation on this one here that I was reviewing as I saw the documents werehanded out. And this is going to be from uh Mr. D from the uh CAP board. Uh we'vegot an extensive uh uh presentation. I will try to keep an eye out if you havequestions as we're going through. Uh we'll stop and take questions. Seeingthis is such a long uh document. We'll want to make sure to get the questionsas we go through and that's is what I was kind of figuring that the bulk ofour meeting is going to be focused on is part of the presentation. Any questionsbefore we begin? Not hearing any. Uh Mr. D, go ahead andkick us off here. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh so goodafternoon. I'm Eric Cedarleaf Doll, the executive secretary of the CAP board.Today, I want to give you some context for the planning work CAP board hasalready completed for the Capitol area and more specifically the Capitol Mall.My goal is to show how the 2040 comprehensive plan, the capital malldesign framework, and the cultural landscape report already established along-term vision for this place and how that work can help inform this statepark conversation. In particular, I want to show how the mall is envisioned notas an isolated government campus, but as Minnesota's civic heart, connected toSt. Paul, connected to the park system, and welcoming motans from across thestate. Uh so first I'll give a littlebackground about CAPboard just to make sure we're all on the same page. UhCAPboard was created by the legislature to provide long range planning,preservation, and design oversight of the capital area. We have planning andzoning authority over a 60 block capital area. You can see the the outline of ourarea on the map here. Uh we have specific statutory responsibility toprepare a comprehensive plan. We also have planning and approvalresponsibilities for the Capitol Mall, public lands, memorials, and majorchanges within the capital area. Um, we take over for the city of St. Paul whilecontinuing a part to partner with them regularly for zoning and permitting inthe capital area. And by statute, the board has 12 members chaired by thelieutenant governor. There are four members appointed by the governor, threemembers appointed by the mayor of St. call two members appointed by thepresident of the senate and two members appointed by the speaker of the house.So we are both bipartisan and biccameal. Uh also by law an advisory committee ofthree architectures or landscape design professionals is required to advise theboard on all architectural planning and landscape matters affecting the capital.Um so getting more into our roles andresponsibilities. There's really three pieces to our role that matter fortoday's conversation. First, CAT board regulates development in the capitalarea. Second, we have planning and approval role at the mall, landscape andcommemorative works. And third, perhaps most importantly, we are responsible forcomprehensive planning. Um, the CAT board works closely with the Departmentof Administration, the city of St. Paul, Department of Public Safety, capitalsecurity, regional agencies, neighborhood planning organizations,district councils, development groups, private sector architects, engineers,and developers. Any state agencies or other publicbodies who consider building projects in the capitol area are required to consultwith the board before they develop plans. Designs for new public buildingsor memorials are obtained through architectural competitions. In addition,the board must review and approve all u plans for substantial alterations orimprovements to public lands, infrastructure, buildings in the capitalarea. Um, we work closely with our partners in the capital area, as Imentioned, Department of Administration, Minnesota Historical Society, CapitalSecurity, State Historic Preservation Office, the Legislature, and theGovernor's Office. Um, any significant changes to the capital's appearance mustbe approved by the board and is the role, the board must consult withMinnesota Historical Society in regard to the historic fidelity of the planchanges. The board also shares responsibility um with others here.I'll try and keep moving quickly here because I have a lot of information andI appreciate your time today. Um, so now stepping to our current major piece ofCAT's planning foundation which is the 2040 comprehensive plan which wasadopted by the CAT board in 2021. This was not simply an update to a zoningdocument. It involved years of research, planning studies, stakeholderengagement, community input. The result was a new vision for the capital areaand seven capital area principles that I'll go over briefly in a moment thatguide capboard's long range planning and decisions. Um really what the comp plansaid is rather than treating the capital campus and surrounding neighborhoods asseparate places, the plan deliberately says we should turn boundaries intoconnections. Um the comprehensive plan doesn'tenvision the capital as this isolated government campus. It envisions it asthe civic heart connected to and serving the broader community. That means thecapital remains a symbol symbolic heart of Minnesota, but the 60 block capitalarea is understood as an integral part of St. Paul connected to neighborhoods,downtowns, parks, and other destinations. Uh it it specificallycalls for the establishing of the Capitol Mall as Minnesota's front lawnand as recogniz as a recognized asset and complimentary connected to thesystem of parks in St. Paul and the region. The seven principles of the comp planreinforce that idea. We want an exceptional visi visitor experience, astrong civic focal point, a model for Minnesota, highquality public realm,multimodal connections, diverse land uses and development that reflectscommunity and context. Taken together, these principles describe somethinglarger than a government campus. They describe a complete civic district. Uhthe the capital area principles anchor the policy that serves to guide capboardin transforming the capitol area to a complete and healthy community. Um theyare designed to reinforce the visual preeminence of the capital buildingwhile maintaining the capital campus as a visitor destination. Uh the comp plan principles guided thedevelopment of the capital mall design framework a focus on worldclass publicrealm experience. Second that we must connect the mall and campus back to thecity, region and state. And finally, that this place has become part of theshared civic identity of all motans and should be a place that welcomes themall. And so the idea of the capital mallfunctioning as a major public space connected to the park system isn't new anew idea really from the comp plan to what then we explored in the capitalmall design framework. So now I'll talk a bit about the CapitolMall design framework and then talk about some of the ideas that came out ofit. Um so in 2023 the legislature providedresources to take the next step outlined in the comp plan. It appropriated $1million to the CAP board to update the capital mall design framework and $5million for initial implementation. This wasn't simply money to beautify themall. It was a legislative direction to undertake a defined planning process andbegin implementing the plan. Um the legislature also gave us veryspecific direction. Uh an updated framework had to address new greenspaces particularly around rice street and university welcoming andinterpretive information and a mature tree canopy across campus. It alsorequired capboard to bring in professional expertise in landscapearchitecture, horiculture, civic space design, infrastructure and operationsand maintenance. Um, we followed a competitive process toselect the design team with multiple applicants and interviews. Suzaki, aninterdisciplinary architecture planning and landscape and design firm wasselected. The work was then developed with CAP board and state agencies,community stakeholders, technical experts and motans. The board approvedthe framework in 2024 and implementation of the capital mall design frameworkphase one began also in 2024. Uh the important point here is that the 2040comp plan and the capital mall design framework now work together. Thecomprehensive plan establishes the broader policy direction for the capitalarea and the capital mall design framework takes those principles andapplies them specifically to the capital mall campus with detailed strategies,design guidance, implementation priorities and phasing.Uh the framework was also intentionally built around community input. The goalwas to make the mall more welcoming for more motans. So we didn't want to designit solely from inside the capitol area. The team engaged communities around St.Paul and across Minnesota through popups, surveys, focus groups, statewideworkshops and an intensive design chet at the Minnesota History Center.Uh we deliberately went to places motans already gather. Engagement happened inthe Twin Cities but also in places like Duth, Biji, Wilmer, Rochester andonline. We wanted to understand what people from different communities needfrom this place. uh not just what people who already regularly visit the capitalthink it should be. Uh the message from the engagement was remarkablyconsistent. People want more things to do. They want more trees and shade,better accessibility, places for children, more amenities, strongerrepresentation of Minnesota, and better connections and a strong sense that themall is is actually a public place.So the capital mall design framework uh which guides the public realm design inthe capital mall and capital area uh as that is cohesive and well connected toits context. Uh the framework studied three different areas to achieve this.So, we looked at these different scales of inquiry from the Capitol area to theCapitol campus to the Capitol Mall. And you can see on that photo um or thatimage what what those different components are and the differentboundaries. Um so now I'm going to talk a little bitabout what the purpose of the of a capital area is uh and talk a little bitabout the history of the area. The capital stairs are effectively thelargest steps in Minnesota and the mall and the approaches extend thatinvitation outward. Uh historically there has always been a tension betweenthe capital as a monumental place and the capital as part of the city. Theplanning work is to connect these two ideas. The mall should be a dignifiedcivic space but should also connect to the neighborhoods transit downtown thehistory center the region and the state as a whole.Um, we also need to think about the mall in two ways. When we did the capitalmall design framework that there are big days, parades, demonstrations,festivals, ceremonies, and major civic events, but there are also the other 350days of the year. Uh, a successful civic park needs to work for both. The capitalmall design framework tries to make the mall more comfortable and useful everyday without compromising its role as Minnesota's civic gathering place.for everyday uses. That means very basic things like shade, seating,accessibility routes, comfortable places to stop, better wayfinding, lighting,landscaping amenities. We've already started doing this with phase one ofimplementation by adding more trees, accessibility, comfort with benches,safety being integrated into all aspects of each of these projects.And then the mall needs to support Minnesota's big civic moments. Wealready have seen how uh relatively simple improvements like I justmentioned, trees, shade, and comfort can improve major events. For example, themarathon finish at John Ireland Boulevard is already more comfortablethanks to the work of the department of administration in planting portions ofthe Capital Mall design framework along John Ireland Boulevard uh and creatingmore comfort in the finish area and where u activities take place related tothe the marathon. So, I'm going to talk real quickly abouthistory because we definitely in all of the Capital Mall design framework usedhistory as a lens in any changes that are made to the Capitol Mall or capitalor buildings. We need to have the lens of history. Um, so we have to understandwhat we're preserving. Uh, and it this is the capital wasn't placed hererandomly. Its location, approaches, views, and relationship to St. Paul werepart of a much larger civic vision. Cass Gilbert understood that the building andcity were connected. Um, so when Minnesota granted its statethood in1858, the city of St. Paul became the nation's 32nd capital. The first twocapital buildings were in downtown St. Paul at Cedar and Exchange Streets. Andin 1893, the decision to re relocate the capital building marked the first effortto provide the city of St. follow the civic place that communicates the highideals of government and the importance of accessible government by the peopleand for the people. The selected location was at the head of WabashaStreet where it ended University ended at University chosen because it was themain thoroughfare between Minneapolis and St. Paul and on elevated ground. Uhboth the accessibility of the location and the grandeur of the location at topthe hill were important factors in the sighting as was the relationship to thefuture site of the Cathedral of St. Paul. Uh, the capital commissionerslaunched an invitation of designonly competition in uh, 1895 and selected anarchitect for the new building. The local architect Cass Gilbert wasdeclared the winner. And Gilbert's plan inspired by the pop popular citybeautiful movement of the period envisioned a massive domed capitaldesigned in the boart style and situated amongst a wide axle and radiant radialavenues. The capital commissioners however limited the competition to thebuilding due to the funding constraints and thereby preventing the adoption ofGilbert's grand scheme. Uh the ground was broken on the capitalbuilding in 1896 and the first sighting and design phase did not address anyconsiderations for creation of a ceremonial civic approaches to thebuilding or an appropriately scaled civic space around the building in whichto accommodate large gatherings. Um, early on, Cass Gilbert recognizedthe deficiencies in this approach, understanding the important connectionbetween the sighting of the capital and the development of the capital city.Here is Cass Gilbert's 1903 plan. It was not funded by the legislature at thetime and it's substantial and goes deep into um the city of St. Paul and haschanged quite a bit. Um, construction was completed in 1905. Uh during thisperiod, roadways that intersected the site of the capitol building werereconfigured um and uh additional land was acquiredby the capital commissioners. Existing buil buildings located there weredemolished. An external power plant which was also designed by Cass Gilbertwas constructed to the east of the capital building and still exists today.Um well the capital building was completed in 1905. Development of theCapitol Mall and civic approaches took many decades. This is an aerial view ofthe capital in 1930. Um here's a view in the 1940s andthrough the 1940s the mall ended at Wabasha Street which cut a southeasterndiagonal through today's mall. It wasn't until the 1950s that Cass Gilbert'svision of the capital approaches was realized. In 1950, Wabasha Street wasclosed after its street car line was abandoned and the curved road wascreated in front of the capitol as it stands today. Um, there were a total ofsix separate plans for ceremonial approaches and the mall were introducedbetween the years of 1902 and 1909. Um, the 30s Gilbert plan extendsdowntown to the core connecting the capital approaches even south to theMississippi River. These plans give us a sense of what his vision was for thecapital and the capital city to be one which the grounds and approaches to themonumental civic building support its landmark status. Uh on the left here isthe Nicholls plan in the 1944 and on the right uh for me is the uh 1986 landscapeplan. Um the LA 86 landscape plan uh set in place a vision to build terracegardens and gate houses that we now see on the bridges over on the over stateover interstate. Um in the development of the capital mall framework like Isaid our lens is always also looking at history and preservation. Um and so theteam also assessed all of the previous plans and landscape evolution in thecultural landscape report. The cultural landscape report gives us a preservationlens. It identifies what makes the historic landscape significant, whatcontributes to that significance and what needs to be protected as thatlandscape evolves. Um the period of significance in thelandscape plan uh is for was determined to be 1905 to 1962. Um as I said this isthe lens which we review changes on the capital mall and surrounding buildings.Um we this is how what informs us on what can be adapted to accommodateevolving needs while still paying homage to the past. It does not say that themall can't change. In fact, it explicitly recognizes that civiclandscape is dynamic and continually evolving.And then here's a view of the period plan in 1962uh which illustrates the final built form of the Capital Mall historicdistrict at the end of the period of significance. Uh and really the storywith the cultural landscape report and what we learned in the capital malldesign framework is that mall has always evolved and its evolution has alwaysinvolved the relationship between the capital and the city and what motans uhare want. So the capital mall design frameworkthen looked forward that brings us to the here and now and looking forwardwith this capital mall design framework. The compran establishes the vision. TheCLR establishes the historic preservation formwork framework and thecapital mall design framework brings those two together to translate theminto a series of implementable strategies.Um, following the goal of the comp plan to make the mall and capital area morewelcoming for more motans, the capital mall design framework was developed as aframework tool that lays out multi-phase implementation strategies and a seriesof design guideline recommendations to be used as a decision-making tool goingforward. Um, the framework is or organized aroundfour analytical lenses connect, preserve, activate and grow. Those areimportant because they keep us from solving one problem at the expense ofanother. Connect the mall to the city, preserve what makes the historiclandscape significant, activated as a civic space, and allow it to evolve tomeet the contemporary and future needs. The capital mall design frameworkcontemplated eight bold moves that came out of a lot of conversations um and uhengagement. uh they were born out of uh uh they collectively make up theculmination of the capital mall design framework. Those four lenses connect,preserve, activate and grow resulted in these bold design moves which I I'll gointo in a little bit more detail here. Um but there to enhance experience,reinvigorate nodes, rightsize the streets, sculpt topography, strengthenpublic spaces, celebrate water, improve planting strategies, and transform GasGilbert Memorial Park. These aren't un these aren't eight unrelated projects.Together, they are a framework for making the mall more welcoming whilerespecting its historic role. So, one of the first bold moves was toenhance the user experience for all motans. uh this is to craft a frameworkaround the day in the life visitors or and develop amenity principles to guidefuture projects. We are cap board is already doing work related to thiscurrently in 2026 and 2027. Uh we're doing a research project on all of thecommemorative works on the Capitol Mall. And then we're also working to developaudio tours uh for different audiences on the that they could then tap intoeach commemorative work, learn something about it or learn the story related toit. Um and we expect to have that work done by uh next summer.So that's one thing that we're already we had already started moving on priorto the state park working group being uh set up. Uh,so as I mentioned, it's designed around a real person's day, a visitor arrivingby transit or car, has different needs than a state employee, a family withchildren, a student, someone attending a ceremony, a successful public spaceaccommodates all of those experiences without making any one of them feel likethe mall isn't for them. So, really focusing on that user experience, andwe're already starting to do that work with our partners. Um we also looked atanother bold voodoo which was bold move which was to reinvigorate nodes thatconnect motans to the capital. Uh it's about edges. The mall doesn't becomeconnected simply because we draw a line on the map. People arrive throughspecific places. The capital mall design framework identifies these nodes uhincluding Ryson University and the history center uh places to in emphasizeuh um our connection to the city and to the region of how people arrive andalready with one of the projects I'll talk about at the end of that we'reimplementing is the Rice Street project the reconstructing Rice Street fromPennsylvania down to John Ireland that is that we're specifically working onconnecting those that node up at Komo and Rice, the one right at RysonUniversity and then the connection to the former Sears site to the CapitolMall and then as well as connecting and thinking about how do we connect theMinnesota History Center and the historical hill district to the mall.So then you can just see this is some of the detail that we go into for each oneof these strategies providing different a look a kit of parts for each node thatestablishes potentials. None of these are uh required. They're just givingmore information for decision makers. And here's a look at Ryson University,which was specifically mentioned in the 2023 legislation. Uh it's especiallyimportant. It's a place where the capital campus can meet the surroundingcommunity. The framework envisions a green space, mobility improvements,welcoming information, and a stronger connection to the capital. Another bold move was to rightsize roadsand reinforce them with trees. Um the objective is to make the streets workbetter for everyone while pro protecting historic viewsheds. Um we've seen thisin other capitals around the country. Uh and this was a recommendation from uhcommunity members as well as professionals.Uh that means uh looking at pedestrian crossings, tree canopies, bikeconnections, storm water, traffic, and the amount of land dedicated tomovement. And so you can see just each one ofthese. We did a deep dive on uh what that looks like. And here's just anexample of John Ireland Boulevard as a a different look of a street that stillprotects those historic viewsheds, but creates more uh connections andmobility. Um, we also talked about sculptingtopography to improve accessibility and seamlessly integrate security. So,topography is both an opportunity and a challenge. The mall has significantgrades particularly around the upper mall. Uh, this bold move focused onimproving accessibility and seamlessly integrating security and sculptingtopography. And so, we looked at how gradingaccessibility and security can be integrated rather than treated asseparate problems. Um the goal is to make a place that's safer and moreaccessible without losing that historic character of the landscape.The visitor experience connect the city and motans to the capital area and capcampus. The visitor experience starts before someone ever reaches the capitalsteps. The capital mall design framework looks at how we can make the entirejourney from the surrounding neighborhoods downtown transit andacross Minnesota more welcoming, intuitive, and connected to the capitalcampus and capital area. That means better way finding, strongerconnections, accessible routes, places to rest and gather.Another one that we've already started implementing quite a bit is a gradientplan of planting strategies. Um, so trees and planting are one of thesimplest ways to make the mall more welcoming. They provide shade, comfort,ecological value, and spatial definition, but they also have respectfor historic views and planting. Taking that lens of the cultural landscapereport, um we looked at all sorts of planting strategies, tree canopycoverage, planting pallet based on biome, biome and expert input.Um, and here's just a zoomed in version of one of those sheets to look at how wewould actually look at planting strategies throughout the Capitol Malland how they how it protects the viewsheds while also adding benefits tovisitors. Uh so the plan illustrates ways to makeMinnesota's front yard more safe, comfortable, usable without detractingfrom the stunning prospects of our beautiful capital uh in really allseasons. So here's just two images from the report looking at what would it looklike if some of these were actually in place. Another uh opportunity is water.This was a bold move to celebrate water throughout all seasons. Um, water issomething that's distinctly motan. The framework explores ways to celebratewater across seasons rather than treating it simply as infrastructure.That could mean water, ice, storm water, or other landscape experiences. Thepoint is to create something people want to experience, not something they simplyhave to walk past. Um, and then we did look at all differentlevels of in the area from storm water to storm water BMTs to storm watersystems. there's some great opportunities.Um, we selected this diagram to highlight how CAP board has been workingwith the Capital Region Wershed District to understand that we have convergenceof need and opportunity in the Capitol Mall for managing storm water um,regionally. Another bold move and I'm getting nearerto the end of the bold moves, so appreciate your patience here and I knowI've gone quickly um, but thank you so much. Uh, another one was looking atCass Gilbert Park and creating a multi-generational space uh, up there.The mall should work for every generation. We want to create a placewhere children can play, families can gather, young people can connect, andolder motans can comfortably participate and enjoy the space. This bold movelooked at transforming Cass Gilbert Park into a multi-generational space forplay, recreation, and views. And that's something we heard quite a bit duringour engagement in outreach was something like that at the Capitol Mall. And thenone of the boldest ideas was to rethink Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard as morethan a roadway. The concept is a shared uh active street for motans stillfunctioning for vehicles but providing significantly more space and comfort forpedestrians, gatherings, trees and public life. This is a good example ofhow the framework tries to connect the different pieces on the mall of theupper mall and the lower mall. And this also included in that you see at thebottom there with the the arc the the uh tribal flag plaza creating a meaningfulsequence from movement and gathering to recognition and commemoration. Andthat's the here's an example of what it could could look like a pedestrian mallthat still allows vehicle traffic and has a lot of activation. And as Imentioned, the tribal flag plaza is one of the first pieces of the framework tobe implemented. It would creates a visible place to recognize Minnesota'stribal nations. It begins the commemorative circle. If you see and seethere on the screen, that's the commemorative circle that connectscommemoration on the lower mall um and the northern edge of thethe idea of the MLK Commons there of a pedestrian shared street.Um so the framework is intentionally phased and we didn't create this visionthat requires everything to happen at once. Uh phase one begins with inchachievable investments that uh establish all sorts of things already. We'vealready with the help of our partners uh at department of administration plantedover 400 trees and over 1,700 shrubs. Um we've added more than 20 benches to theCapitol Mall. The tribal flag plaza has been completed. Um as well as we are inthe midst or on the beginnings of the Rice Street reconstruction that willoccur in 2027. Um and then working with our partners at CAP security and uhdepartment of administration on the commons and green space at RysonUniversity as something that was contemplated there.And so finally I'm getting to the final points here of how is the CMDF meant tobe used? It isn't meant to be a rigid blueprint where every line must be builtexactly as it's drawn in there or every idea comes to fruition, but it's adecision-making framework. Uh when a project, investment or partnership isproposed, the framework gives a common set of principles, design guidelines,priorities, and historic considerations to evaluate against. Umit's not a construction schedule. It's again a decision-making document. Uh itwent through rigorous review with partners, stakeholders, motans, experts.Uh and really it's for us to utilize when the state considers an investment,a landscape change, a new memorial, a mobility project, an accessibilityimprovement, a partnership. The CMDF gives us that decision-making commonframework for evaluating uh how that proposal contributes to the largervision. Um I also just wanted to point this out. We looked at, you know, wehave a whole bunch of different ideas and project ideas in the capital malldesign framework. It also looked at how could this be funded. And in the capitalmall design framework, it looked at three different examples of creativepartnerships uh which were examples from around the country where publicownership remains intact while nonprofits, conservies, businesses, andcommunity organizations help with programming, fundraising, maintenance,or activation. uh those models can be useful for thisthis work here. Um important point is that the partnership does not requiregiving away any public ownership uh which can bring additional capacity toan already established public asset. Um these examples show different approachesto partnership. For example, Madison demonstrates a downtown civicorganization working across public and private interest interests. Den Denvershows a conservancy model supporting publicly owned civic park. uh and BryantPark demonstrates how nonprofit management, programming, and fundraisingcan complement public uh ownership. None of these are plugandplay for Minnesota,but it gives us something to learn from and to to have the conversation around.Um with everything with the Capital Mall design framework is a phased approach.So, we did cost estimates for all of these projects. These are estimates. Weworked with the department of administration, but we all recognizedthat costs change and and and the projects any of the projects that wouldmove forward would work with all our stakeholders on determining what do theyactually look like in relation to what the CAT board planned for. Um, so thiswas a look at like how the cost and potentially how it could be funded. Uh,and just wanted to share that with the group. Uh but know that these are still,you know, uh they're just a idea at the time in place that the capital malldesign framework was approved. Um and so here's kind of a look at likeif a lot of these things took place in the capital area as a whole. Uh it isnot to turn the capital into something it isn't. It's to carry forward what hasalready been important about this place while making it work for Minnesota todayand tomorrow. Um it should be a place that belongs to all motans. The workwe've done through the comprehensive plan and the design framework gives us aroadmap for making that idea real while respecting the history, dignity, andsignificance of this extraordinary place. Um, and so with that, I thinkI'll just go to my last slide here, which is to talk about Cass Gilbert andhis quote in completing the Capitol Mall or the capital. We built a state capitalon the theory that nothing was too good for Minnesota. Let us develop the cityon the theory that nothing is too good for St. Paul and thank you so much foryour time. I know that was a lot and I'm happy to go back to slides or have moreconversation and I have uh my vice chair from the cap board here, MichaelBjornberg, as well as my planning and zoning administrator, Peter Musty, ifyou have any questions that I can't answer. But thank you again for yourtime. >> You're welcome. Thank you, Mr. Doll.That was quite a bit coming uh at us there. I appreciate I know there's goingto be questions. I do also want to make sure that folks notice in the packetthat there was the executive uh summary is also included and this is theexecutive summary on the mall design framework. I understand the entirepackage or the entire report is what several hundred pages Mr. D.>> Uh Mr. Chair yes I don't know the exact amount 300 and some pages.>> 300 and some so there's a lot of details that are out there for people to diveinto if they like and that is is that available online then Mr.>> D? Yes, Mr. Chair. that's available on our website. I can send that out to thegroup. The um I don't have it memorized off the top of my head.>> Oh, that's okay. That'd be great if you could send it out. That'd be great. It'sgood for people to be aware of that and take a look at it. Uh with that, I willstart opening it up to questions. Who would like to uh uh we'll start off withMiss Held. >> Uh this is more just a comment and maybefor continued conversation. Just want to be clear too with the the $5 millionthat was received for the capital mall um design framework went to thedepartment of administration and then that is where we work with capboard andothers but we um receive that funding and hire the do the design and theconstruction of that. So just want to make sure there's understandingunderstanding of the clarity of rules. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. Uh, next,uh, Senator Green, I noticed you you're making notes over there. So,>> I'm making notes, but uh, a [clears throat] little deeper. I'mprobably the most people. I look at this and to me, the mall right now is isit's it's a nice place and it's u it's open. Uh, the, you know, some of thestuff, although I'm sure a lot of stuff has gone into these designs and theylook good, it starts to starts to look crowded. you know, there's could you canget too much in one area, too. So, that's what I'm looking at and I'll giveone on the >> good point. Uh, RepresentativeClaybourne, >> thank you. Um, one, I want to thank theDepartment of Administration, the members of CAPboard, of which I happento be one, and um, also you, Executive Secretary Dah. um you came into this asa new executive secretary of the CAP board and the work that was done on thecapital model design framework uh was phenomenal uh and the partnership andcollaboration uh and the cohesiveness of all of theentities because it wasn't just CAP and admin it was the city of St. Paul and somany partners uh who came together to do that work and the history uh center aswell and all of the outside contractors that did the work. I just want toreiterate that the idea is that the Capitol Mall design framework is justthat it's a framework and that the decisions that are yet to be made belongto the community and to the legislature to do this work in um in a collaborativeway with all of the entities. Um it's a 30-year plan. It's not anovernight plan. And so I think uh making sure that we understand that but thework the underlying work of what the mall can and um could be for theenjoyment of all motans is there and we just have to decide if we want to bebold and move forward and put this um mall into a designated park. I thinkthat's the piece that we uh have to decide about. And I just want to say uhSpeaker Ammerida Hortman was a driving force in making sure thatall motans have the ability to use, appreciate and enjoy the Capitol Mall.And I was on the mall for a very large event in mid August.Um the second I got home I had to remove my clothing because it was soaked. Imean, it was hot and um my clothing went to the dry cleaner and I came home andwhen I picked up my dry cleaning, it's still stained from the perspiration ofthe day. So, to make this mall more human and more comfortable for allmotans to enjoy it, I think is really something that we can't um ignore. Andso, I I just want to thank you for the work that you've done.Thank you, Representative Cleorne. >> I just wanted to also echo on thephasing and implementation if I may, Mr. Chair.>> Go ahead, Mr. D. >> Um, thank you. Um you know as youmentioned each of the each phase we actually go ground truth everything withdepartment of administration uh capital security like literally every tree ofthose 400 plus trees we planted so far we've gone out and walked the groundlooked at the tree talked to the state historic preservation office about theplans and how it impacts the historic viewshed. So I would agree thatthroughout all of this we continue conversations um and the implementationis a is a is a full community decision. Uh Mr. D, I want to say thank you againfor the presentation and you hit on one of the things there is uh the peoplethat you've evolved so far in the process of what you have been doing. Iknow one of the things that came up last time was concerns on security and howare those things were being taken uh into consideration and uh when youmentioned that you're working with security on terms of sight lines evenputting in trees which I would have never thought of. So you folks arediving into that uh who who is all involved in that part of the process.>> Uh Mr. Chair, thank you. One of the folks is here today, Captain Rosski. UhCaptain Flynn is there. Colonel Colonel Bogeic.think I got her name right. Um, as well as commissioner of department of publicsafety. Uh, and probably others. Captain Rossky, if there's any that I missed,please let me know. But yeah, so pretty much for every project or go ahead.>> Uh, and then Miss Held. >> I was just um, so this is where once wehave say a plan of where trees will be planted with the design, we've run it bythe CAP board. We really do run any um before any final decisions are made,it's run through capital security, department of public safety to make surethey have sign off and they are involved in the process as well. So we make sureum they have a seat at the table in a saying that.>> Okay. Very good. And if I and uh uh if you could uh uh refresh for me is uh interms of public safety here on the capital grounds, who is responsible forthat? >> M Miss Held or Miss I mean, uh, theDepartment of Public Safety, the state patrol.>> So, it's the state patrol that has the upper authority. Okay. No, I just kindof want to hit on because that's one of the things that has come up in the pastof security. I want to make sure people understand that they've been veryinvolved in the process and we thank them for for their concern to make surethat we have have our folks who come out here on a regular basis are going tofeel safe. Uh, Mayor Her. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I just want tosay thank you, Mr. Doll. So, as uh somebody who's been coming to thisneighborhood who never came to the capital, but was always around the areasince the 80s, I think that as neighbors and people who live in the Frog Town inthe Rondo in these areas, we see the construction happening, but we have noidea that it is part of a larger plan such as this. And it makes so much moresense now that I see everything that you've laid out here. And I want to justsay thank you for the intentionality of it and just seeing the nodes and thedifferent things that you've all put in here. I've watched, you know, UniversityAvenue as a kid coming to visit my family who lived in the area fromboarded up um buildings to, you know, there used to be strip clubs andprostitution and around Rice Street and around University Avenue and theintentionality of what we're doing to say that our capital is worth thatinvestment and what has been happening. It not only is good for the capital, butit's good for the neighborhood and it's good for the businesses and the peoplearound here and that investment had been sorely lacking for many, many decades.So, I just uh wanted to say thank you in appreciation for um how well this hasbeen thought out and just to uh representative Chair Cleveland's pointabout the trees is that we do know that in our urban areas here that we arehotter and with the extreme climate change that has been happening thataround this area we have some of our most diverse neighborhoods, some of ouruh lowest income neighbors here as well. and that the capital leading by exampleby putting in trees and increasing that tree canopy is really important for usas we continue as a city to look at how do we address climate change and havingthe disproportionate impact of that be felt by our uh black and browncommunities and our communities from the lowest incomes and so I just you knowall of those things tied into what you are doing here is really important forus as a city so thank you >> thank you mayor Mr. Chair, mayor, thankyou very much. And I'm very happy to have the opportunity to be part of thisand help uh work with my staff and the board on implementing this work.>> Oh, very good. Uh I do have and I'm just keeping an eye out for others that mighthave questions because I've some of the questions I've had others are asking butI before I start hitting on my list of things uh and some mine I'll drive justa little bit further in because I've not been real involved in part of theprocess and and have kind of seen the larger campus here because the campus isnot just the mall area. We've kind of sprawled out a little bit. So an exampleis the old Ford site that was out there. How is that incorporated? because peopledon't necessarily think of that as being part of the mall, but it's also one ofthose things that kind of looks like, you know, as I was looking at the plans,it looks like that might be something that is becoming more green as we goforward. If you could talk a little bit about that aspect and I just want tokind of hit on is, you know, we've got the state properties that sometimesspread out and wondering how much of that becomes part of this going forwardor how much of it is already incorporated in as part of this redesignprocess. Mr. D, >> Mr. Chair, thank you for the questionand I may ask uh assistant commissioner held to help as well. Um so that in the2023 legislation, it asked CAP board to look at those spaces which is the Fordsite. It during that 23 legislation it demolished the Ford site but looked atit as a new green space. Uh so we worked with our CAP board as well as admin toto and cap security to get the right kind of style of green space for that.as well as if you look where currently where the state office buildingconstruction trailers are that ultimately will be a green space as wellwhich is to the south of university and to the west of Rice Street. So that ison slate for 27 to be a green space and we continue to do more planning on that.Um Pete Musty here has led a lot of planning with the Rice Street team onwhat those green spaces should be for like mobility for like connection to thelight rail and connection to the BRT line that's going to be going throughthere. Um as well as our our board planning those but I know admin also hasplans there as well. Miss El>> um I would say specifically for that the former uh Ford site and al that's lot Cis what we will refer it to and like where the trailers are would be lot umAA or double A um that was part of the what was in legislation that admin wasdirected to make that green space as part of that $5 million for theredesign. So that was a directive from the legislature that until there'sfurther development or decisions on how to use that land that we create greenspace there. >> Uh and I'll go to Miss uh RepresentClayornne and then I'll go to Mayor Her. >> Thank you. And as part of that stategovernment bill, um it was a bipartisan agreement that because the new stateoffice building would be going into the park space that we would replace thatpark space. And so it was a bipartisan agreement u in the house>> and the senate. >> Thank you. Mayor her.>> Mr. Chair, can I just ask clarification from assistant commissioner? Uh>> sure. >> So the the parcel you're all referringto is it the sax and Ford site or is it a different part a different part ofFord site? >> Miss where the Ford building waswhere the Ford building was and an extension within that parking lot. So onthe northeast corner of University and Rice and then the southwest corner. umwhere job trailers are will be green space.>> Mayor her. >> Mr. Chair, I just wanted to make surethat because I this um that I understood what that piece of because the SaxonFord site itself that's right I think near there is HR owned which is cityowned and so I would love to just make sure that we I'm sure you're already intouch with our uh with with the city and our planners and everything but um Iknow the neighborhood uh has a plan about how they think that that parcelshould be developed. Um, so I just want to make sure that we touch base on thatand we're on sort of on the same page on that piece of it.>> Okay. No, >> thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, MayorHer. And just out of curiosity, are they is the neighborhood thinking of beingmore of a green parkish type thing or they I'm just trying to get an idea hereis what they're thinking because this is kind of what we're going to be dealingwith as we go forward here. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And yes,absolutely, Mr. Chair. they they are entertaining um uh proposals fromindividuals right now and because it is what we call a housing redevelopmentowned it's like a part of St uh the city but it's also has a separate over bodythat oversees it and so from what I understand is that there are uh they'relooking to have proposals sent to the the uh district council that sort ofoversees that area but um I think that there's still a lot of conversationabout who gets to have ultimate say and authority over some of those things so Iwould just want to make sure that maybe our parcel is a little bit differentthan the parcels that assistant commissioner might have mentioned maybethey adjust they they are joined or they touch each other but would love to justmake sure that we understand more of what you all are doing so that whateverwe're looking at in that piece that it's cohesive with uh the planrepres >> thank you because I'm right now verymuch confused because I believe the Ford site that we are talking about isstateowned state property not city property>> and so um they may be adjacent I I don't know but um there I think we're talkingtwo different parcels of land. >> No, thank you. That's what I was tryingto get at there. So, no, thank you for for getting that clarified.Uh, other questions on the on that partial through there or comments. Um,Mr. Chair, Madame Mayor, I can also look into that as well and check in. Weregularly talk to planning economic development staff at St. Paul to makesure that that's all coordinated, but I do think it's a separate parcel in adifferent location potentially. Um >> uh one of the uh questions I have andthis starts getting into some of the other partials that are around there isas I was taking a a look at the overall map. One of the things I was impressedwith and this kind of goes back to an earlier comment is, you know, trying tomake it so it's not so hot and bearing. You know, when the sun's out in thesummer, it is it is kind of brutal out there. I notice that the pl the malldesign project calls for what I call the curved road dividing the two mall, youknow, the two the the upper and lower mall. That's calling for that to goaway. Is that correct, Mr. D? >> Uh, Mr. Chair, not really to go away,but to just become a it's currently four lanes of traffic, which is would is alot of potential traffic that is not often seen on in that curved area. So,we are looking at making it smaller, but still allowing cars to pass through, butjust having potentially trees and benches and amenities there, but itthat's pretty early in the planning process. We haven't come up with anydesigns yet. And um you know, there's that is a city-owned street, so it wouldbe something that would we'd have to figure out kind of the details onoperation and maintenance there. But it was a bold vision that we heard whichwasn't to get rid of car traffic but just to make create kind of um shade andcomfort in that space since so often we see uh you know events there.>> Okay. Thank you. And that's kind of what I was trying to understand as I was takea look. So I I appreciate the clarity on it and as you're mentioning it too is uhuh you still want to make it car friendly and so I know some of the areasit seems like our current parking areas. How does that how did that all getaddressed as you're going through the design shred etc? Because while most ofthe year we don't need the parking there are certain times particularly whensession is deep in where the biggest question I hear is how do people getback and forth that are trying to come down here. How does how is the parkingwrestled with that because I know the Sears site is not always going to bethere. I don't know is that Miss Held or is that Mr. Dell or both?>> Mr. I'll probably pass it to Miss Held, but uh you know, CAP board does look atthe planning of parking in the Capitol campus and works with admin todetermine, you know, our our trajectory on, you know, where park or how parkingshould kind of go, but they're they make theultimate decision on um when a parking lot stays or goes.Miss Elder, >> um I can this is probably where we havea in the current moment a differing opinion. Um the parking we havecontinually ask for funding to make parking uh more like user friendly. Thefolks can come and go, employees could come and go, visitors can come and go.We just don't have that infrastructure. uh we compare it to like the U of M orthe downtown ramps where you can just get a ticket pay as you leave versus acontract. And so I until we have that flexibility, we have kind of umadvocating to maintain our current parking facilities so we can to yourpoint um have enough spaces especially during the session months uh toaccommodate employees and visitors um that need parking on the complex.Okay, very good. Uh, Miss Clayborn, I mean, if Represent Clay,>> it's all good. Um, so one of the things I think it's important to understandwhen you're talking about Martin Luther King Boulevard there where the loop is,um, the idea is that, uh, during periods of time when the city would agree and,uh, that space could maybe be rented for an event, right? So, if you think aboutmaybe the marathon coming, you could eventually request to the city of uh St.Paul to close that road so that it could be used as an event space, but it wouldhave to be done in cooperation with the city. And um right now, I mean, wealready allow in statute for cities to close sections of streets for, let'ssay, a farmers market or for a music event and just to bring people in forthe day or maybe even two-day event. And so that's kind of how that space isenvisioned. It's not really. And so if you have a skinnier road, there's asafer buffer for people who are on the grass portion, right? Or if you thinkabout whatever, and we don't know yet. This hasn't been uh discussed in greatdetail or figured out how it would be implemented, but you know, making surethat if that roadway is closed off that the pedestrians who are in that spacewould be safe, >> right? I mean, we don't want to see acatastrophic event there. So there's still a great deal of work to be donethere, but you know they've talked about um Suzaki talked about other communitieswho might have let's say an art fair or an art festival. So that street might beum painted something um a temporary paint for that event and then it wouldbe cleaned off for the city use again as a regular street. So it's not like we'retalking about ripping out the street and removing the street if that helps.>> Yeah. Thank you. No, that is helpful. Mr. D,>> m I was Mr. Chair, I was just going to uh agree with that. And really, I thinkwhere that came out of is some of the what folks from Suzaki had visited andseveral of us have visited the Madison State Capital and seeing kind of howthat space functions there around there. It's pedestrian and traffic. Um waswhere that came out of. >> Okay. Well, very good. Um and I'm I'mgoing to keep on zipping through here a little bit. So, I've got a a coupleothers uh questions. Um uh one of the things that intrigued me as you weregetting toward the end of your presentation, uh Mr. D, you're talkingabout that there were different models that you highlighted three differentmodels of funding that you folks were taking a look at. Were any of thosecurrently being pursued? What were some of the hurdles? What were some of thedecision points that were invol as you were looking at the three differentmodels? >> Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Um at thispoint, none of them were being pursued. I think they were just showing differentoptions for funding realizing that a lot of the proposed bold moves wereexpensive and so looking at how other states or other communities had done it.We at this point had not pursued any specific um other opportunities forfunding. >> Okay. Thank you. That's kind of what Iwas trying to find out if we've got anything underway or if so this is anarea that we still need to do a bit more work on but it's something that has gotsome sounds like very good potential and something that the consultants you hiredwere also identifying as a way to help address what we need to be doingoutside. >> Yep. >> Uhthat per that hits the questions that I've got on it. Uh, are there any othercomments or or questions that people have as we're looking at this processgoing forward? Doesn't sound like it. I think we'vewe've covered a lot of what we have before our business today. Uh, one ofthe things that I want us to start thinking of as we're going forward isfirst of all, we've got the uh mall design project in front of us. So, insome some ways, a lot of the things that are envisioned out there have alreadykind of been laid out. It's more of a uh task of of identifying what should bepart of you know the actual part of you know defining what the boundaries shouldbe and then also a little bit more into the program. It sounds like some of theday-to-day programming type of activities that we heard a little bitabout and some of the others will be some of the things that we should belooking at as we go forward along with trying to figure out how we fund some ofthis. And I think that's some of the things that we'll be looking at the nextmeeting is is having some folks come and talk a little bit about that. Uh, I'malso open if people have other thoughts of people that'd like to have make sureto make presentations, but I think we've got enough base work that at the nextmeeting or so we can start moving forward and having discussions a littlebit more about, you know, potential boundaries. It sounds like we got someareas where there's conflict. And once again, it's one of those things thatthis is a 30-year as it's being laid out. This is a 30-year plan. And so,this is something that is also a plan that I would call is a evolving andgrowing plan. It's a live plan that is going to continue to evolve. So, as whatwe look at today and as our eventual recommendations may also change overtime as different opportunities come up and society changes out there. So, Ithink that's some of the things that we need to keep in mind as we're as we'regoing forward. Uh, any final comments from anyone? Uh, Mr. Meyer? Mr. Chair,just based on your previous comments, I was looking at this executive summary ofthe design framework, and I see that um oh, it's on the third page. Uh there's aa box that says create a gradient of planting strategies that supportcultural programming, sustainable maintenance, and human comfort. And itlooks like there's a a landscape design almost where there's some definedlandscape typologies and corresponding planting pallet. pallets, increase treecanopy cover, diversity of species. It'd be interesting to know more about thatbecause that might fall into the next steps of if that's a design that the CAPboard and others have been working on. It'd be great to hear about that andthen how does that fall into other designs or how could we take that workfor the the physical piece of it and then I think the programming piece is isthere as well. But I'm I'm intrigued to see that and learn more about that.>> Okay. No, very good comment. That would be a good one. I And I see uh Mr. Dah'smaking note on it right now. I take that you've got a lot of supporting documentson this, >> Mr. Chair. Yes, we do. We coulddefinitely pull something together and give more detail on that. Um,>> no. And I I think that and one of the things I think maybe that Mr. admire wasalso coming from and I've heard from some others is that uh with thelandscaping plant how much that reflects the different types of uh uh not justtrees but the I don't want to call it I'm thinking wildlife but it's not it'splant stock across the state you know we've got our our like our prairies ourwetlands those kind of things how much it reflects the different diversity andthinking of how you can use that as an education piece then as people come bywhether it's a little uh guided tour that they're able to do themselves onthe internet that they pull down or it's a little sign there. But it would be isit Mr. Myers? Is that kind of what you're thinking of?>> Yeah, representation of the state's biomes, things like that. And then Ithink it's also interesting the the the native plantings that I think inTennessee. I mean that how do we incorporate native plantings, nativematerial to to Minnesota into the designs?>> Yeah. No, very good point, >> Mr. Chair. Yes, mate. Would we be happyto do that for the next meeting or whenever?>> Well, I think that'd be a good one to hear at the next meeting. And there'sare there any other parts that people saw in the bold design that they'd likemore details on that we could also have at the next meeting? And if you don'thave it now, you know, just send those suggestions over and we'll make sure toget in because that's kind of where we're getting to that point in theprocess here to keep it moving along. Uh, Repres>> just making sure that we include a presentation sometime. I've mentionedthis to you before with revenue. Yes. >> To see how we could do that nonprofit tomaybe help do some public private partnerships on this>> and that's one of the things I've got on for that as noted for our next meeting.So thank you. Appreciate that. Anything else?Not seeing anything. I will then say that we are adjourned. Thank you all. You'll be feeling