[0:10] >> GOOD AFTERNOON. THIS IS THE [0:13] MARCH 6th, 2025, ZONING BOARD [0:15] OF ADJUSTMENT REGULAR MEETING. [0:16] MY NAME IS MAT PERRY AND I'M [0:17] CHAIR OF THE BOARD. I WILL NOW [0:18] CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER AND [0:23] ASK THE CLERK TO CALL A ROLL SO [0:25] WE MAY VERIFY THE PRESENCE OF [0:29] QUORUM. [0:30] >> BOARD MEMBER CALLAHAN. [0:32] >> PRESENT. [0:32] >> IKE EICHOLZ. [0:42] >> PERRY. [0:43] >> HERE. [0:43] >> SMFIVE MEMBERS PRESENT. [0:47] >> PLEASE LET THE RECORD SHOW WE [0:48] DO HAVE QUORUM AND WE WILL [0:49] PROCEED TO OUR AGENDA, A COPO OF [0:50] WHICH WAS POSTED FOR PUBLIC [0:53] ACCESS TO THE CITY'S LEGISLATIVE [0:56] MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AVAILABLE AT [0:59] LIMS.MINNEAPOLISMN.GOV. IS [1:02] THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS [1:04] AGENDA. [1:04] >> SO MOVED. [1:05] >> SECOND. [1:05] >> IT'S MOVED AND SECONDED. [1:07] HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR OF [1:09] THE MOTION, INDICATE BY SAYING [1:11] AYE. ANY AGAINST, INDICATE BY [1:13] SAYING NAY. ANY ABSTENTIONS? [1:15] THAT MOTION PASSES AND THE [1:17] AGENDA IS APPROVED. I BELIEVE [1:19] ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE SEEN [1:20] A COP AOF THE MINUTES FROM THE [1:23] FEBRUARY 20th, 2025, ZINING [1:24] BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEETING S. [1:25] THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE. [1:27] >> SO MOVED. [1:29] >> SECOND. [1:29] >> IT'S MOVED AND SECONDED. IS [1:30] THERE ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING [1:36] NONE, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE [1:37] MOTION, INDICATE BY SAYING AYE. [1:44] WE HAVE TWO ABSTENTIONS. [1:46] ANYBODY AGAINST? WITH THAT, THE [1:47] MINUTES PASSES AND THE MINUTES [1:49] FOR THE ZONING BOARD OF [1:52] ADJUSTMENT, FEBRUARY 20th, [1:53] 2025, MEETING ARE APPROVED. LET [1:55] THE RECORD SHOW THAT MR. EICHOLZ [1:58] HAS JOINED US IN TIME TO VOTE ON [2:01] ANY ITEMS HENCE FORTH. [2:02] MR. ELLIS, ARE THERE ANY [2:03] COMMUNICATIONS? [2:04] >> CHAIR PERRY, MEMBERS OF THE [2:04] BOARD, I HAVE TWO COMMUNICATIONS [2:05] THIS EVENING. THE FIRST OF THE [2:09] TWO IS THE RESULT OF A VARIANCE [2:15] APPEAL FROM 41 THIRD AVENUE [2:15] NORTH. IT WAS ACTUALLY AWHILE [2:17] AGO. IT WAS EXTENDED AN [2:18] ADDITIONAL MONTH DUE TO REQUEST [2:19] FROM THE APPELLANT. BUT THAT [2:20] WAS PARTIALLY GRANTED AND [2:25] PARTIALLY UPHELD. THE DENIAL. [2:26] SO THE VARIANCE FOR THE HEIGHT [2:29] OF A FENCE IN A REQUIRED FRONT [2:30] YARD WAS DENIED. [2:31] THE VARIANCE TO INCREASE MAXIMUM [2:34] PERVIOUS SURFACE WAS PARTIALLY [2:36] GRANTED INSTEAD OF 90% AS THE [2:38] APPLICANT AND APPEL PT HAD [2:40] REQUESTED IT WAS APPROVED TO [2:41] 75%, CITING THE SIZE OF THE LOT, [2:43] WHICH WAS A, IT'S A STUB [2:45] STANDARD LOT INSTEAD OF BEING [2:46] 5,000 SQUARE FEET, IT WAS 3500 [2:48] SQUARE FEET. SO THAT WAS THE [2:50] PRIMARY CHALLENGE THAT COUNCIL [2:55] FOUND. [2:55] >> DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION, [2:58] MR. HUTCHENS. [2:58] >> YES, MR. CHAIR. CAN YOU [2:59] REMIND ME WHICH ONE THAT WAS? [3:01] >> CERTAINLY. THIS IS THE ONE [3:02] TAT CAME OUT OF ENFORCEMENT AND [3:04] IT HAD LIKE THE DRIVEWAY WIDTH, [3:11] THE XZ, THE FENCING IN REQUIRED [3:13] FRONT YARD, PATIO. THEY SPOKE, [3:15] ONE OF THEIR MAIN CONCERNS WAS [3:17] THEIR MOTHER WAS, YOU KNOW, [3:18] LEAVING THE PROPERTY WHICH IS [3:19] WHY THEY'D WANTED THE TALLER [3:20] FENCE, SOME OF THOSE, AND THEN [3:23] THEY NEEDED -- THEY WERE ASKING [3:24] FOR THE ADDITIONAL PARKING AREA [3:24] AND ADDITIONAL OUTDOOR SPACE IF [3:26] THAT RINGS A BELL. LET'S SEE. [3:31] SO THAT WAS THAT FINDING. [3:33] THE NEXT FINDING WAS ALSO THEY [3:35] GRANTED THE APPROVAL FOR THE [3:36] PATIO IN THE REQUIRED FRONT AND [3:38] CORNER SIDE YARD, SIMILAR THINGS [3:43] DUE TO THE SIZE AND INABILITY TO [3:45] HAVE A TRUE REAR YARD WAS KIND [3:46] OF THE FINDINGS RELATED TO THAT. [3:50] AND THEN FINALLY, THE, THEY [3:52] UPHELD AND DENIED THE DRIVEWAY [3:54] WIDTH VARIANCE. [3:56] >> OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF [3:59] MR. ELLIS? [3:59] >> SO YEAH THERE HASN'T BEEN A [4:01] FORMAL -- IT HASN'T BEEN [4:01] FORMALLY, YOU KNOW, RECORDED ON [4:03] THAT. WE'RE STILL, YOU KNOW, [4:04] THE, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE [4:05] IS STILL WORKING THROUGH THE [4:06] FINDINGS ON THAT, BUT THAT'S [4:07] WHAT COUNCIL HAD SAID AT THE [4:11] BUSINESS HOUSING AND ZONING [4:13] COMMITTEE. [4:13] >> SO THAT HAS YET TO HAVE [4:15] FINDINGS AND GO TO THE FULL [4:16] COUNCIL? [4:16] >> CORRECT, IT HAS NOT YET GONE [4:18] TO FULL COUNCIL, BUT THAT WAS [4:20] THE OUTCOME OF THE BH Z, AND IT [4:24] WAS A UNANIMOUS VOTE. [4:26] >> OKAY. YES? [4:26] >> REGARDING THE FINDINGS ON [4:29] THIS 40,133R 401 33RD [4:34] NORTH, I RECALL LOOKING AT THE [4:35] PROJECT BEFORE AND AFTER, BOTH [4:36] BEFORE THE OWNERS BOUGHT IT AND [4:39] AFTER THEY DID THE IMPROVEMENTS [4:40] ON IT BECAUSE OF THE DESTABLED [4:43] MOTHER. I KNOW I HAVE TO SAY I [4:44] WAS TOLD THIS PUBLICLY I WAS [4:45] TOLD IT WAS POSSIBLE BUT I WANT [4:46] TO SAY FOR THE RECORDS IT IS [4:47] WRONG IN MY OPINION THAT WE [4:51] CHARGE THE SAME VARIANCE FEE, [4:53] $600 OR FOR THE UPHELD THAT WE [4:54] DO ON A HOUSE THAT'S WORTH ABOUT [4:57] $160,000 THAT WE DO ON A MILLION [4:59] DOLLAR HOUSE THAT DOES A TENNIS [5:03] COURT OR A BUSINESS THAT'S WORTH [5:06] THREE OR FOUR $000,000 ON [5:07] HENNEPIN AVENUE. I JUST FEEL [5:08] LIKE IT'S WRONG AND IT NEEDS TO [5:10] BE SAID ON THE PUBLIC RECORD [5:11] THAT WE'RE NOT DOING SOME KIND [5:14] OF MORE RESPECTFUL AND EQUITY ON [5:17] THESE APPEAL PROCESSES BECAUSE [5:18] THE COST OF $600 FOR THIS [5:21] PARTICULAR PROPERTY I SUSPECT [5:22] WAS ONE OF THE MANY REASONS WHY [5:23] IT TOOK A LONG TIME TO MATURE. [5:26] SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT FOR [5:27] THE PUBLIC RECORD THAT IT'S [5:29] WRONG THAT WE CHARGE THE SAME A [5:32] HOUSE VALUED AT $160,000 THAT WE [5:36] DO FOR A STRUCTURE THAT'S A [5:38] COUPLE OF MILLION. I CAN SEE [5:39] WHERE THERE IS A MINIMUM THAT [5:41] SHOULD BE REQUIRED, BUT I JUST [5:44] DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE CHARGE [5:44] THE SAME FOR SUCH DISPARITY IN [5:48] PROPERTY ASSESSMENT. [5:49] >> WELL, THANKS FOR THOSE [5:51] COMMENTS. ALL RIGHT. [5:52] >> AND CHAIR, CHAIR PERRY. AND [5:55] THE SECOND COMMUNICATION RELATED [5:56] TO THAT WAS WE FINALLY COMPLETED [5:58] THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ANNUAL [6:00] REPORT. IT JUST WAS COMPLETED [6:01] TODAY, SO IT WAS A LITTLE TOO, [6:04] IT WASN'T, WE WEREN'T ABLE TO [6:05] GET IT ONTO THE AGENDA FOR [6:06] TODAY, SO WE'LL PUT IT ON THE [6:07] AGENDA FOR MARCH 20TH FOR REVIEW [6:11] AND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU SEE ANY [6:13] ISSUES AT THAT POINT, YOU CAN [6:14] NOTE STAFF AND OTHERWISE POST, [6:16] POST THAT HEARING THEN WE CAN [6:17] GET IT POSTED ONLINE. [6:19] >> OKAY. SO MY REQUEST WOULD BE [6:21] THAT IF WE CAN GET IT AHEAD OF [6:23] TIME, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN VOTE ON [6:25] THE 20th. [6:26] >> YEAH, WE'LL EMAIL IT OUT [6:27] AHEAD OF TIME, AND IT'LL BE [6:30] AVAILABLE ALSO THEN ON THE [6:31] PUBLIC RECORD. [6:31] >> OKAY. GREAT. ALL RIGHT, [6:34] THANK YOU. LET'S REVIEW THE [6:37] AGENDA. I WILL READ THE AGENDA [6:39] NUMBER AND ADDRESS OF THE [6:41] PROJECT AND STATE WHETHER IT'S [6:42] SLATED FOR CONSENT, CONTINUANCE, [6:44] WITHDRAW, RETURN, OR DISCUSSION. [6:48] AND I WILL GO TO AGENDA ITEM [6:50] NUMBER 5, WHICH IS OUR ONE [6:52] AGENDA ITEM WITH LAND USE [6:54] REQUESTS IN IT. IT'S 4100 UPTON [6:57] AVENUE SOUTH. STAFF IS [6:59] RECOMMENDING THIS ITEM FOR [7:01] CONCEPT. -- CONSENT. IS [7:04] THERE ANYONE TO SPEAK AGAINST [7:05] THIS ITEM? I SEE NO ONE. SO [7:11] LET'S GO TO THE ITEMS THAT ARE [7:12] ON OUR AGENDA FOR CONSENT. THEY [7:14] ARE ITEM NUMBER 5, IS. IS THERE [7:17] A MOTION TO ADOPT THIS ITEM ON [7:19] CONSENT. [7:19] >> SO MOVED. [7:20] >> IS THERE A SECOND? [7:22] >> SECOND. [7:22] >> IT'S MOVED AND SECONDED. IS [7:27] THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THE [7:28] MOTION? ALL IN FAVOR INDICATE [7:29] BY SAYING AYE. ANY AGAINST, [7:30] INDICATE BY SAYING NAY. ANY [7:33] ABSTENTIONS? AND THAT MOTION [7:35] PASSES, SO IF YOU WERE HERE FOR [7:36] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 5, YOUR LAND [7:38] USE REQUEST IS APPROVED. GOOD [7:40] LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECT, AND [7:41] APPRECIATE YOU COMING DOWNTOWN. [7:47] ALL RIGHT, WE'VE COMPLETED ALL [7:50] OF OUR ITEMS ON THIS AGENDA [7:53] FOR THIS MEETING. OUR NEXT [7:55] MEETING IS MARCH 20th, 2025. [7:58] I WOULD -- [7:58] >> EXCUSE ME, CHAIR, PERRY. [8:00] >> YES? [8:01] >> THIS IS -- I DON'T KNOW IF [8:02] THIS IS NECESSARILY AN [8:05] ANNOUNCEMENT BUT THIS IS A [8:07] CONCERN I SHOULD BRING UP. THIS [8:08] IS THE THIRD MEETING AU THIS [8:12] AUGUST BODY HAD THAT WAS LESS [8:14] THAN 10 MINUTES. I WASN'T AT [8:16] THE LAST MEETING BUT IT WAS ONLY [8:17] EIGHT MINUTES AND 47 SECONDS. [8:18] I'M CONCERNED AND I GUESS I NEED [8:19] TO TALK TO STAFF. I UNDERSTAND [8:21] THERE IS A DUE PROCESS AND THERE [8:21] IS CONSTRUCTION THAT NEEDS TO BE [8:23] DONE, BUT IS THERE MORE [8:25] EFFICIENT WAY OF HAVING US DO [8:29] THESE KINDS OF MEETINGS, STILL [8:30] ALLOWING THE PUBLIC TO COME [8:31] FORTH AND SPEAK, BUT AT THE SAME [8:33] TIME, BEING MORE COG M [8:38] -- COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT [8:39] IT'S RIDICULOUS, WE MADE A JOKE [8:40] AT ONE POINT THAT IF WE ARE HERE [8:43] FOR ONLY TEN MINUTES THAT WE [8:44] SHOULD ONLY GET HALF OF OUR PER [8:47] DIEM BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S A [8:48] JOKE, I THINK IT'S SINCERE. [8:50] WASTING TIME TO COME TO A PUBLIC [8:51] MEETING, IF WE CAN TAKE CARE OF [8:53] IT VIRTUALLY OR IN OTHER WAYS [8:54] AND STILL HAVE THE PUBLIC COME [8:55] FORTH, I THINK THAT'S [8:56] APPROPRIATE. SO AGAIN, I WOULD [8:58] TASK THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY [9:00] THINKS WE CAN'T DO IT VIRTUALLY, [9:03] THERE ARE DECISION-MAKING BODIES [9:04] THAT DO THINGS VIRTUALLY, AND I [9:07] WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE US TO DO [9:10] THAT. SO YOU KNOW, TO HAVE [9:11] THREE MEETINGS AND HAVE THEM ALL [9:13] BE UNDER 10 MINUTES JUST SEEMS, [9:15] SEEMS, SEEMS REALLY WASTEFUL, [9:17] AND AS TAXPAYER WHO PAYS A LOT [9:22] OF MONEY, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT [9:23] IT. [9:24] >> YES, THANKS FOR THOSE [9:24] COMMENTS. MR. HUTCHENS. [9:25] >> SO IN THE SAME IDEA, IF IT [9:26] GOES THREE HOURS, WOO EGE [9:29] -- WE GET PAID MORE? [9:30] >> WELL, THAT'S A GOOD POINT, [9:31] AND I DO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT [9:32] I DID SPEND 15 MINUTES LOOKING [9:34] OVER THIS DOCUMENT BECAUSE I WAS [9:36] FASCINATED BY THE FACT THAT THE [9:38] VARIANCE WENT THROUGH SO [9:39] SMOOTHLY AND IT TOOK ME AWHILE [9:40] TO REALLY UNDERSTAND IT. THE [9:42] DOCUMENTS WERE REALLY QUITE [9:44] THOROUGH. BUT YEAH, I WOULD [9:47] ARGUE THAT MAYBE THAT'S THE [9:48] CASE, BUT I WOULD CHALLENGE US [9:50] AS, AGAIN, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE [9:52] HISTORICALLY WE HAVE LASTED FOR [9:53] AN HOUR, BUT THE LAST COUPLE OF [9:55] MEETINGS I HAVE BEEN AT, THE [9:57] LAST THREE ANYWAYS FOR SURE HAVE [9:59] BEEN UNDER 10 MINUTES, AND EVEN [10:00] BEFORE THAT, THEY WERE UNDER, [10:01] THERE WAS ONLY ONE THAT I [10:02] REMEMBER IN THE R LAST YEAR [10:04] THAT WENT OVER AN HOUR AND A [10:05] HALF, SO. I JUST THINK IT'S [10:06] SOMETHING TO CONSIDER THAT WE [10:07] LOOK AT OTHER FORMS OF DELIVERY, [10:10] BOTH PUBLIC COMMENT AND GOOD [10:14] CONSENSUS DISCUSSION. I BELONG [10:15] ON OTHER BOARDS WHERE WE HAVE [10:17] VIRTUAL, AND WE HAVE GOOD [10:19] DISCUSSIONS, AND GOOD RESULTS [10:20] THAT COME OUT OF IT. AND I'M [10:21] JUST CONCERNED THAT JUST BECAUSE [10:22] IT'S BEEN DONE THIS WAY FOREVER, [10:24] DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NECESSARILY A [10:26] GOOD WAY TO DO THINGS. [10:30] >> SO I WOULD, I WILL RESPOND [10:33] TWO WAYS. ONE, I WILL ASK STAFF [10:36] TO TALK TO THE CLERK, THE CITY [10:41] CLERK ABOUT WHAT THAT WOULD [10:44] ENTAIL TO DO AN INVESTIGATIVE [10:47] LOOK AT THAT. THE SECOND IS, [10:50] IT'S NOT ONLY HISTORICALLY WHY [10:52] WE DO THINGS. IT'S, THE CLERK'S [10:57] OFFICE IS SET UP, THESE MEETINGS [10:59] GENERALLY HAVE THE SAME LOOK AND [11:04] FEEL THAT MEETINGS LIKE THIS [11:06] THAT ARE QUASI-JUDICIAL HAVE THE [11:07] SAME LOOK AND FEEL. SO IF WHAT [11:11] YOU'RE SAYING IS THE CASE WITH [11:14] US, IT WOULD ALSO APPLY TO THE [11:18] HPC AND THE CPC. AND I DON'T [11:21] KNOW WHETHER THAT MAKES SENSE [11:23] FOR THEM AS WELL. SO THERE'S, [11:26] I'M JUST INFORMING YOU, THERE IS [11:28] ANOTHER DIMENSION TO IT. IT'S [11:30] NOT JUST, WE DO THIS [11:32] HISTORICALLY. IT'S THAT THERE [11:34] IS A DESIRE TO HAVE CONTINUITY [11:38] ACROSS MEETINGS SO THAT WHEN YOU [11:39] COME BEFORE THE CITY, YOU'RE [11:42] FEELING LIKE IT'S THE SAME BODY [11:43] AND THE SAME ORGANIZATION. BUT [11:47] I WOULD ASK, I WOULD ASK TO GET [11:51] A RULING ON THAT FROM THE CITY [11:54] CLERK'S OFFICE. [11:55] >> CHAIR PERRY AND THE BOARD, IF [11:56] I MAY SPEAK TO IT JUST BRIEFLY. [11:58] OBVIOUSLY I'M NOT THE [11:59] DECISIONMAKER ON THIS, BUT MY [12:02] UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE HAVE [12:05] CONSIDERED DOING HYBRID MEETINGS [12:08] POST-PANDEMIC IF YOU WILL, AND [12:08] IT HAS BEEN VETTED THOROUGHLY BY [12:10] THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, AND [12:11] I DON'T SEE A LOT OF RECOURSE [12:13] THERE, BUT I WILL FORWARD YOUR [12:15] CONCERNS TO MR. CARL, THE CITY [12:16] CLERK OF MINNEAPOLIS, AND SEE IF [12:18] HE CAN AT LEAST PROVIDE SOME [12:20] ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AS TO WHY [12:21] IT'S NOT POSSIBLE AT THE CITY [12:23] WHEN IT'S POSSIBLE WITH YOUR [12:24] OTHER BOARDS. THANK YOU. [12:25] >> I APOLOGIZE IF I'M TAKING UP [12:27] THE TIME OF THIS COMMITTEE EVEN [12:28] THOUGH IT'S ONLY AN EXTRA THREE [12:31] MINUTES, BUT YOU CAN SPEAK TO ME [12:33] OFFLINE THEN. I DON'T [12:33] NECESSARILY HAVE TO BURDEN THE [12:35] REST OF THE COMMITTEE IF IT'S [12:36] NOT A CONSIDERATION OF THEIRS. [12:39] >> SO I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT I'VE [12:41] BEEN ON THIS BOARD FOR A LONG [12:47] TIME., MANY YEARS, AND I HAVE [12:48] FOUND THAT OVER THE COURSE OF [12:53] TIME, THE TIME EVENS ITSELF OUT, [12:54] SO IT'S NOT -- I MEAN, WE'VE HAD [12:56] A RUN OF SHORT MEETINGS, BUT [12:58] OVER THE COURSE OF, IF YOU LOOK [13:03] AT THE LAST FIVE YEARS WHAT IS [13:05] THE AVERAGE MEETING LENGTH, I [13:06] THINK IT AVERAGES OUT TO [13:07] SOMETHING MORE THAN -- IT'S NOT [13:08] GOING TO BE 8 MINUTES. WE HAVE, [13:12] WE'VE HAD A SITUATION WHERE THE [13:14] LAST COUPLE OF MEETINGS HAVE [13:17] BEEN SHORT, BUT I WOULDN'T [13:18] CONTINUE TO EXPECT THAT, AND [13:20] WE'RE JUST GETTING INTO THE [13:23] CONSTRUCTION SEASON. SO WITH [13:26] THAT, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE [13:27] YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? [13:28] >> NO, THANK YOU FOR HEARING [13:29] ME. [13:32] >> SURE. SO IS THERE ANY NEW [13:33] BUSINESS OR OLD BUSINESS FROM [13:37] STAFF? OKAY. WITH THAT, I'D [13:38] ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. [13:41] >> SO MOVED. [13:43] >> SECOND. [13:43] >> IT'S MOVED AND SECONDED. ALL [13:45] IN FAVOR, INDICATE BY SAYING [13:45] AYE. WE ARE ADJOURNED. [13:52]