Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the regular meeting business housing and zoning committee for July 7, 2026. My name is Jamal Osman and I'm the chair of this committee. I will call in order for this meeting. Before we begin, I want to remind all folks that this meetings are broadcast live to enable greater public participation. They include real-time captioning to increase the accessibility of our proceeding to the community. Therefore, all speakers need to be mindful of the rate of their speech so that our captioners can fully transcribe all comments for the broadcast. We ask all speakers to moderate the speed and clarity of their comments. We'll be using the speaker management. So, please sign up. At this time, I will ask clerk to to call the role so we can verify a quorum. >> Council member Rainville >> present. >> Warren >> present. >> Schaefer >> present. Chavez >> present. >> Chuktai is absent. Vice chair Chowry >> present. >> And chair Osman >> present. >> There are six members present. Reflect. We have a quorum. Our agenda is front of us. We will begin with the consent agenda. If you want to speak during any of this seven public hearing today, please sign up with the clerk. All right. Item six um approves six liquor license. Item seven approves 20 24 liquor license renewals. Item eight approves 22 I'm sorry. Item eight approves two gambling license. Item nine approves amended business license operating condition for breakfast bar of Minnesota. Item 10 accepts the low responsive bid for snow removal at Minneapolis Convention Center. Item 11 authorize the loan construction for Jig Jig Business Center. Item 12 authorizes financial agreements for rehab properties part of Minneapolis housing finance. Item 13 authorized revision to the alternative financing program. [clears throat] Item 14 is a resolution approving a land diso disposition and financial assistance from Hannibin County Housing and Redevelopment Authority. Item 15 authorized the contract with Metro uh cons. Consortium of Community Developers for Loan Services. Item 16 approves two street vacation located north of Franklin West. Item 17 refers to the staff an ordinance related to the anonymous vehicle regulation. And lastly, item 18 sets a public hearing for July 22nd to consider the mayor's nomination of Enrique Velasquez to the position of director of regulatory services. Okay, with that, does any of my colleagues have questions? I see council member Rayville. >> Thank you, chair. I'd like to pull item nine for a separate discussion and vote. >> Item nine, uh, pull for separate vote. Council member Schaefer, >> I just wanted to make a comment on 16 before we move to the vote. And just to say thank you for this work on behalf of CPID and others about this vacation on these two small triangular parcels this with the eventual transfer hopefully to MPB and this is something that we were very interested in for a long time and I'm just very thankful to see that coming forward. This is an area of the city that does not have a lot of green space. It's one of the target areas for MPB. Um and I'm thankful to see this vacation coming forward. Thank you. That I I'll move all items except item nine and uh item I refer item 17 17 to staff and set item 18 for public hearing on that motion. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> And those approved say nay. >> The eyes have it and the motion carries. All right. uh for public hearing for everyone in attendance and especially those who might participate in our hearing. >> Chair Osman. >> Yes. >> Council member Rainville pulled out an item for discussion, I believe. >> I appreciate your reminder. Uh Council Member Rainville, please go ahead with item nine. >> Thank you. So, I see uh Miss Lingo here. I'm wondering if you could describe the operating conditions uh for the breakfast bar. through the chair, council member Rainville. Thank you. Um, so the conditions that we have before us for the breakfast bar are um related to the um activity for the business as well as for the outdoor structure. So we have negotiated a takedown of that outdoor structure um to occur no later than September 15th of this year. And then in that part of those negotiations, we have uh clearly laid out and agreed upon um behavior and expectations for sound and use of that tent. Okay. And that's what you mean by activity. So So you said the conditions are regarding activity. So the activity inside the tent or the activity once the tent is gone. >> The activity inside of the tent. how the patio space is to be used for this time frame >> from now till September. >> Correct. >> Great. Thank you. Good job. I appreciate the work. Uh we all know that there's been some issues there. So, thank you, >> Council Member Schaefer. >> Yeah, I'm just thankful for seeing this coming forward as well. This is something that we've heard a lot of complaints about um particularly from the atrium um public housing. Uh there has been a written um petition going around with many signatures and um due to noise complaints um very late at night so and early in the morning. So thank you. Um, thank you. And also I I do want to comment that this uh is a business uh owned by African-American uh business and I really appreciate the staff for um finding a way to have the business to continue and uh especially the outdoor situation. Um and uh good luck to them. And um with that, I will I'll have Council Member Chavez to speak on this. Uh, I'll let it go. >> All right. Uh, thank you so much. I will approve for [clears throat] item nine. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> And those oppos say nay. The eyes have it and the motion carries. All right. Uh, public hearing for everyone in attendance and especially those who might participate in our hearing or comments period. Let me offer this notice. This hearing are being recorded and broadcasted. both recording and broadcasted are classified as a public data under the Minnesota Government Data Practice Act. By attending or participating in this proceeding, your image and any testimony or information that you might provide will be you will be also subject to disclosure under the law. That includes, but it's not limited to your attendance, your name, and other personal details you might provide, as well as any testimony or comments you provide, which includes any routine submission you make, which are included in the record at this meeting. Our first public hearing is a license application for on sale liquor with limited entertainment for Bill's Bait Shop located at W 12. I will ask Akbar Muhammad from the business license to give us presentation on this. Welcome. >> Thank you, Chair Osman and committee members. I am licensed inspector Akbar Muhammed with licenses and consumer services. I'm presenting an application from Bill's Bait Shop LLC DBA Bills Bait Shop located at 310142nd Street East, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55406 in Ward 12. The applicant is requesting an on sale liquor limited entertainment with Sunday sales license. If approved, they intend to be a fullervice restaurant with a menu focus on fish along with burgers and hot dogs with outdoor seating. Bill's Bait Shop will be a sit-down restaurant with 48 interior seats and 18 private patio seats. Their premises includes the ground level space at 310142nd Street East. They intend to provide limited entertainment, only ambient music playing in background inside only. On occasion, they may offer karaoke and trivia, but no exterior entertainment. Hours of operation indoor Sunday through Thursday 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Friday and Saturday 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. Outdoor hours for the private patio Sunday through Thursday 11:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. and Friday and Saturday 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. On June 15, 2026, 159 public hearing notices were sent to residents property owners posted on all residential buildings with four or more units within 600 ft of the premises. Notices were also sent to the Standish Ericson Neighborhood Association and Council members Chowry. We have received 18 comments from the community, 18 in support of this application. However, their concerns are closing hours for their private patio. These hours are based off the feedback that was received in response from neighbors and are reflected in the request requested closing times for the interior and exterior of the business. We brought these concerns to the applicant. The applicant has a history of running successful neighborhood restaurants with little issue. They fully intend to operate as a good neighbor. This is a new business to a new location. A review of any complaints, 311 calls, police calls, and any operating conditions found no significant issues concerning the business and the issuance of this license. The license and consumer services division recommends approval of a on sale liquor limited entertainment with Sunday sales license. This concludes my presentation. At this time, I will stand for comments or questions. Thank you. >> Thank you so much for that presentation. Now I'll proceed to open the public hearing and recognize Jamie Olen. Hi, welcome. >> Thank you, Akbar. Hello, council members. Thank you for having me. Um, I am Jamie Olsen, founder and CEO of Central Restaurant Group. Uh, Bill's Bait Shop is one of our newest projects and near and dear to me. It's um after my it's in honor of my grandpa Bill uh who grew up in northern Minnesota and led fishing. So really really excited about this. Um really excited about the neighborhood. We've heard nothing but positive things and excitement and we are very much a community focused um uh restaurant brand company. So um yeah, we respect the community and I'm here to answer any questions. >> Thank you so much. Are there anyone who would like to speak in this item? Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and recognize Vice Chair Chowry. Thank you, Chair Osman. Um, Akbar, would you just mind saying what the hours are just one more time for us? So, their indoor hours will be Sunday through Thursday, 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Friday and Saturday, 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. The outdoor patio, private patio hours, Sunday through Thursday, 11:00 a.m. to 11, excuse me, 11:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Friday and Saturday, 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. >> Thank you, Abar. >> Sure. Uh, I just first want to start off by saying thank you so much for coming to city hall, Jamie and Jerry. Really appreciate you both. Um, I'm really excited to move this forward for approval. Uh, Bill's Bait Shop is going to be such a wonderful addition to this corner of the 12th ward and the neighborhood. I have gotten so many emails, calls, texts, just excited um for you to open and just really appreciate the other businesses you've ran um in the Twin Cities area and the neighborhood here has really shared that they would love to have like a place where they can walk and have a drink, have some burgers. Um I think that Northwood smoked fish is going to be very popular. And I just want to also thank um Amy and Akbar for your work. Constituents have shared with me how accessible you've been and really I think everyone's going to appreciate this compromise on the hours. It's going to go a really long way and I'm just super excited to bring this into this corner. This corner's been vacant for a couple of years now. Uh Chicago Taste Authority used to be here. So having it be filled with a new neighbor is going to be wonderful. And I really recommend you probably already have connecting with the owner of every makeup. They always have a really cool crew of people coming through there that will just probably love Bill's Bait Shop. >> Great. Wonderful. Thank you. Um with that motion, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> And those oppos say nay. The eyes have it and the motion carries. And our next public hearing is a license application for permanent expansion premises and application for a seed cafe license. Both are for Brian Lake Bowl located at war 10. I'll have manager Amy Lingo to talk about and give us presentation on this. Thank you, Chair Osman and committee members. I am Amy Lingo, manager for licenses and consumer services. I'm presenting an application from Splitzville Incorporated LLC doing business as Bryant Lake B which is located at 810 Lake Street West, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55408 which is in the 10th ward. The applicant is requesting a street cafe and a permanent expansion of license. If approved, they intend to expand their outdoor area to provide a street cafe for the outside dining to accompany their current operations of restaurant, bowling, and live theater. The outdoor expansion will add approximately 180 square feet for 16 outdoor seats within a designated and enclosed cafe area operating during the spring through the fall season. in um cafe street cafes operate in parking spots. So it's an it'll be in a parking spot. The hours of operation for the indoor, which are current, Monday through Thursday, 8:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. Friday through Sunday, 8 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. The outdoor hours on the proposed street cafe are Monday through Sunday, 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. On June 15th, 2026, 134 public hear notices were sent to residents, property owners, and posted on all residential buildings with four or more units within 600 ft of the premises. Notices were also sent to the Lowry Hill East Neighborhood Association, the Lake Street Business Association, and Council Member Aisha Chuckai. We have received two comments from the community, both of which were in support. We have received no comments in opposition. A review of any complaints, 311 calls, police calls, or any other operating conditions have found no significant issues concerning this business or the issuance of this license. Licenses and Consumer Services recommends approval of a street cafe and permanent expansion of premises. This concludes my presentation. At this time, I'll stand for any questions. >> Thank you so much for that presentation. I will proceed to open the public hearing and see if there's anyone who would like to speak on this item. Yes, sir. Welcome. Please state your name and Yes. Come over here. Yep. Uh hello everyone. My name is Ryan O'Neal. >> Welcome. >> Go ahead. >> Uh I'm a resident of the Whittier neighborhood. I'm a longtime patron of Bryant Lake Bull. So, I came here today to talk uh in favor of the proposal. Uh it's a place that's been very near and dear to me. Uh when people come in from out of town, I always try and get them to stop by. Uh during the pandemic, I did everything I could to keep the place open. Uh I bought gift t-shirts for my entire family in North Carolina. Uh so there's Bryant Lake Bull advertising out of state. Um I volunteer a lot there doing small things. uh I call the bingo. We're doing bingo tonight at 8:00 p.m. Um so it's a place that uh I've been patronizing for quite some time, over 15 years. Uh and I think this would be a great opportunity for the business in the neighborhood and I just wanted to encourage the council to uh approve this proposal. >> All right. Thank you so much for your testimony. Uh is there anyone else? See none, I'll close the public hearing and recognize Vice Chair Chowry. Thank you, Chair Osman. I'll move this item for approval and then also just highlight to those who are watching. Bryant Lake B was very prominently featured on Love is Blind Minneapolis. One of the most iconic breakup scenes of the season occurred at Bryant Lake Bowl. So excited to expand the premises. Hopefully there will be more people getting together than breaking up, but that's not up to us here. >> All right. Wonderful. With that motion, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> And those oppos say nay. The eyes have it. And the motion carries. All right. Our next public hearing is a license application for wine and a strong beer with no life entertainment at Antos located at war 4. I will have Sarah Grace from business license to give us details about this. Welcome. >> Thank you, Chair Osman and committee members. I'm licensed inspector Sarah Graves. That's s a r a g r a ys for spelling purposes uh with licenses and consumer services. I'm presenting [clears throat] an application from Antos Ryan S LLC doing business as Antos Ryan. The business is located at 1724 Lowry Avenue North in Ward 4. The applicant is requesting an on sale wine with strong beer and no entertainment license. If approved, they intend to add wine and strong beer to their full menu sitdown restaurant, which focuses on Ecuadorian and American cuisine. They've been open as [clears throat] a restaurant only for the past year. Um, there will be no entertainment other than TVs or radio. The restaurant is in a standalone building and has capacity for 60 seats inside. There is no outdoor seating. The hours of operation for the restaurant are Monday through Sunday, 11:00 a.m. through 900 pm. On June 15th, public hearing notices were sent to residents, property owners, and posted on all residential buildings with four or more units within 600 ft of the premises. Notices were also sent to the Fwell Neighborhood Association and Council Member Vita. We've received no comments from the community. a review of any complaints, 311 calls, police calls, and any operating conditions. Found no significant issues concerning the business and issuance of this license, and the business has completed a thorough security plan with the fourth precinct uh police department. The licenses and consumer services division recommends approval of an on sale wine and strong beer with no entertainment [clears throat] license. This concludes my presentation. At this time, I will stand for any questions or comments. Thank you. Thank you so much for that presentation. I will proceed to open the public hearing and see if there's anyone who would like to speak on this item. Right. I see none. I'll close the public hearing. I recognize Council Member Warren. Thank you. Um Chair Osman, I've heard nothing but great things about this establishment. So I am excited to know that they are expanding um their operations there on LIi in our cultural corridor. So this is exciting and yeah that's all I got. Thank you. Uh with that motion from council member Burough all those in favor say I. >> I. >> And those oppos say nay. The eyes have it and the motion carries. Our next item is a public hearing related to the financing for the grain exchange com conversion project. I'll have Amy Carr from CBED to speak more about this item. Welcome. >> Good afternoon, chair and committee members. I'm Emily Carr. I'm a supervisor on the residential finance team in CPED and I'm before you today requesting funding approvals for the grain exchange conversion project. Staff is recommending approval of up to $39 million in taxexempt housing revenue entitlement bonds and up to 1.775 million in tax increment financing. I will be joined by Matthew Hendris and Braden Rothy from development finance for the TIFF portion of this presentation. The grain exchange conversion project is the proposed conversion of the grain exchange building from an underutilized office space into a mixed use mixed income development. Sherman Associates is proposing to redevelop this historic complex located in the downtown west neighborhood of Ward 7 with into 232 units of mixed income housing including 210 units affordable at 60% AMI and 22 units at market rate as well as 32,000 square ft of commercial and office space. The grain exchange consists of two buildings. The north building, 3014th Avenue, is 10 stories. The first floor will be occupied by the current tenant, which is the US Postal Office, resident amenities and lobby space, and rental units. The remainder of this building, floors 2 through 10, will be occupied by rental units. The main building, 4004th Street, is 12 stories and will include commercial space on the first two floors. The third floor and the fifth through 11th floors of this building will be rental units. The fourth floor, currently used as a co-working space, will be transformed into a 25,000 square foot event rental space to accommodate large gatherings such as weddings and conferences. The 12th floor of this building is a rooftop deck. Additional amenities include a club room, fitness center, lobby, and management offices, and an outdoor play area for children. The developer, Sherman's Associates, is a well-known Minneapolis-based developer, and property management firm with a portfolio that includes commercial buildings, hotels, and apartments. Sherman has developed more than 8,000 rental units in Minnesota, Colorado, Iowa, and Florida. Recent Minneapolis projects include Groove Lofts, Beam, and Ladder 260. The first set of actions before you today in this report involve the developer's application for taxexempt housing revenue entitlement bonds in an amount not to exceed 39 million. As a housing revenue bond entitlement issuer each year the city receives a bond allocation in 2026. This allocation was approximately 72 million. Housing revenue bonds can be used to finance the acquisition, rehabilitation, and construction of affordable rental housing. Housing revenue bonds issued by the city are sold to investors to raise funds and these sale pro sales proceeds are used to finance affordable rental housing projects. The debt or loan issued from a bond sale is an obligation of the borrower or the project and not of the city. Tax exempt housing revenue bonds are paired with 4% low-income housing tax credits to generate tax credit equity or syndication proceeds in the grain exchange project. The tax credits will generate more than $36 million in syndication proceeds as a source to the project. The total development costs of this project are estimated at just over $122 million. And the developer has also secured approximately $46 million in federal and state historic tax credits and environmental pass through grants. The second part of this request involves a developer request for up to 1.775 million in tax increment financing. Excuse me. I'm going to turn this presentation over to my colleague Matthew Hendricks to provide some background on TIFF and this request. Thanks, Emily. Chair Osman, committee members, my name is Matthew Hendricks, and I'm a manager in the city's uh development finance division. Tax increment financing, or TIFF, is a financing tool available to all cities and counties in Minnesota and governed by state statute. The city can only utilize this tool in accordance with the rules established by the state tiff act which means the tiff district can only support the specific project defined in the tiff plan. In other words, under current law, tiff cannot generate unrestricted general use funds. The project must include specific eligible costs which are also defined by statute. And most importantly, the project must meet a butt for test, a legal requirement that local government must satisfy before creating a new TIF district to ensure TIFF is only used on projects that are not financially feasible but for public financial assistance. Based on staff's review, this project meets the statutory requirements for the establishment of a housing tiff district. I will now invite our summer urban scholar Braden Rothi to join me and share a little more detail on the request for the grain exchange. >> Uh good afternoon chair and uh members of the committee. Uh my name is Braden Rothy uh and I'm an urban scholar with the development finance team this summer. Uh as noted uh the grain exchange project is requesting 1.775 million in tax increment financing. As with uh all TIFF projects, the increased property value resulting from the completion of this project will not be included in the city's general tax base until the TIF district is descertified. Uh which is anticipated to occur 15 years after development completion. Uh the city will also retain 10% of the tax increment generated each year to pay TIF administrative costs. The TIF recapture provisions for this project include two components. First, there will be a post construction review of the deferred developer fee as compared to the current project budget. If the developer is able to increase their upfront fee via construction savings, improved financing terms, or any other factors, um then the amount of TIFF assistance will be reduced proportionally. The second piece of the recapture language could result in a reduction or elimination of TIFF support for the project if the project generates significant proceeds for the developer in the event of a sale or refinance. This provision is consistent with our TIFF agreements for other projects and I will now turn the presentation back over to Emily. >> Uh thank you Braden. Um this concludes our presentation today. Um staff recommends proceeding with these requests and today's approvals. Um um if that happens, the project will be positioned to close and begin construction this fall. We can take any questions you have at this time. I also wanted to acknowledge that there is representatives from Sherman Associates here as well today. Um so yes happy to answer any questions >> and thank you so much Steph staff for your presentation of the project and also information about TIFF and uh on this we will um it's a public hearing so we will open the public hearing and see if there's anyone who would like to speak on this item. Uh, I'm seeing no one. I will close the public hearing and I see a few council members who have a comment or question. I have council member Chavis speak. >> Thank you, Chair Osman. I would first like to mention that building more housing is a good thing and that I would rather build more housing in downtown Minneapolis while making it more familyfriendly than building out data centers in downtown. I think it's important that we should focus on our efforts on building housing for people in our city rather than building it for data centers. So, I just wanted to mention that first. Um, I guess for staff, I was wondering if you could please confirm that no data center is going to be a part of this housing project at all. I would just like to know that. >> Uh, Chair Osman, Council Member Chavez, no data center, >> right? >> I want to make sure I just want to get it on record. Uh, and I'm going to have a variety of questions for city staff. So, um, uh, can you please confirm the AMI breakdown for the public to know? I I I have the number, but I just want to get it confirmed for the public and people watching at home. >> Uh, Chair Osman, Council Member Chavez, um, the breakdown is 210 units at 60% AMI and 20, excuse me, 22 units at market rate. And what does CPED interpret that 60% AMI um the income range to be? >> Um I don't have the numbers in front of me. >> Uh I'll ask other questions if folks were be able to figure that out at least before the meeting ends. That would be helpful. Do you know under this um development project how long the is it going to be forever that it's going to be at 60% AMI or is there a specific amount of years that it's going to be required to be at 60% AMI? Um so under the city um tax credit requirements it'll be a minimum of 30 years. Do >> you know what's going to happen? Is there any question any conversations with the developer on what's going to happen after those 30 years pass? Are they going to keep it at that level or >> um so typically a tax credit lura runs a minimum of 40 years? I can confirm um and follow up after the meeting on the tax credit scoring. There's an option to get additional points for extended affordability. Um I don't have the details of that scoring in front of me. >> Yeah. And I guess I'm asking more of like has a developer at least communicated with staff what their plans would be after that and not necessarily yes, they're going to get some tax breaks here, but I guess my question is has a developer made a decision on what happens after 30 years or even 40 years. We have the developer available if there's Chris, >> come on up. >> Chair Osman, committee members. Um, to answer that question, we're we're actually right now facing a similar decision with two properties in Northeast Minneapolis, uh, Botnau Commons, Botnau Lofts that we developed 25 years ago. And the decision we're making is we're re-uping another 30 years in affordability that will extend out ultimately the affordability at least 55 years. So, similar with grain exchange, as we get 20 years out from now, which I'll probably be back up in front in 20 years, making a request to reinvest more heavily back into the apartments, we'll come back in and we'll probably reup affordability long term. That's been our general practice to maintain affordability long-term, highquality housing, generational housing. Um, we we do not want to take affordable housing off the market. We want to keep it high quality long term. So 20 to 25 to 30 years from now, I suspect we'll be back in front of the council re-uping long-term for another 30 years in affordability with grain exchange. >> Suspect or will. >> We fully plan to. >> Okay. Thank you. Just want to make sure. Um, thank you, chair. I guess for staff, a question just because I think tiff districts or peacemailing tiff tiff districts, I think it's important for the public to better understand how this works. What happens if, let's just say, and I hope this doesn't happen because I want these buildings to be full and I want it more people that live in these units. What happens if the project underperforms or if people aren't renting it out and the bonds aren't repaid on schedule? Does that impact the city? My understanding is that it doesn't, but I would like to understand what that means for the city. >> Yeah, Chair Osman, Council Member Chavez, uh, thank you for the question. Um you are correct that the city is not at risk of uh a debt uh debt payment issue if the project underperforms. The city in this case is issuing a a payo tiff note and so the risk for any um variation from what uh we're currently projecting lies with the developer. >> Okay. Thank you. And then the last few questions that I have here is that given that this is really focus in downtown and higher income areas in our city. I guess a question for CPED that I have is what is CPED doing to bring more proactive investments into our cultural corridors uh with this kind of tiff district or peacemail and tiff districts into our city. Uh where else is this used in Minneapolis? Would love to get a breakdown uh on that as well. I think my thing is I would you see $39 million in tax, whatever you want to call it, and you you think my constituency that like where else is that being used in our city? Are we talking about different zones in Minneapolis like on Lake Street, 38th Street, Franklin Avenue, West Broadway, you name it. So, yeah. >> Uh, Chair Osman, Council Member Chavez, is your question specific to housing revenue bonds or tax increment financing? >> TIFF, I guess. Yeah, either or. Both. I know there's there's TIFF. There's like less money on that, but I guess both both. There's many votes that are happening right now. So I would say actually both. Yeah. >> So the the housing revenue bonds are a tool that are paired with a housing tax credit. Um and so we we have a lot of projects we we close both uh new construction and rehab every year across the city. Um typically those are paired with our affordable housing trust fund which does prioritize scoring for projects within cultural corridors. Um I also I did I do have the numbers here for your previous question around AMI. Um and I can answer that now. Um so for a a 60% AMI household that's up to a family of four um the allowable income would be up to 78,900. For a family of two um it would be 63,100. And I'll let Matthew answer around that too. Yeah. Uh through the chair, Council Member Chavez. Uh in terms of uh geography of use of TIFF, uh TIFF is a city-wide tool and we look at use of TIFF uh on a case-byase basis because each uh district needs to meet the state statutory requirements. Um but it's absolutely available citywide. Um and we could follow up with your office and send a map of current TIFF districts if you >> Yeah, that would be helpful. um of like where we usually use TIFF districts, how it's applied, how often do we use it, areas in our city, maybe the past few years. So that that would be super helpful. I'll be voting for this today. I just had a lot of questions that I think a lot of my constituents are just asking when they see this item brought before us. As I mentioned earlier, I am a big supporter of building more housing. I think building more housing is really important. I rather build more housing in downtown than data centers. I think that's just something that I will keep on naming because I am concerned that downtown is going to become a place of just data centers instead of housing and a family-friendly downtown. Um, but I'll support this today and I just hope that in the future if we're going to be using this tool that we prioritize more deeply affordable housing. I think that [gasps] hearing the salary income range is still going to be hard for, you know, folks that are struggling to make it by to live in downtown. So, I just want to make those comments. >> All right. Uh, thank you, Council Member Chavez. I will recognize next Council Member Rainville. >> Thank you, Chair. I I don't have any comments about data centers. I'm going to stick to the Germaine here and talk about this project. >> But I wanted to thank our staff. This is really hard work to get all these numbers to match up and keep going back and forth with the with the developer. This project uh started uh two terms ago. I want to thank the developers for your you are the best at providing housing for those who least can afford it. You've shown that time and time again in this city. Your heart is in the right place and I really appreciate what you're doing to help those who are less fortunate in our city. So, thank you very much. I will be voting for this today. >> Thank you, Council Member Aiel. I recognize Council Member Schaefer and hopefully she'll make the motion, too. >> Sure. I'll just say thank you as well. Um, in a times where there is many places to invest your money, I want to say personally, thank you for investing in affordable housing in the city of Minneapolis. That matters. Your track record matters and you matter to this city. And so, thank you for to CPED for your willingness to cobble all these things together and for your perseverance in putting this deal together um because I think a lot of people are going to benefit and I'm thrilled um to see that act that reality start to happen even this fall. So, thank you for the quick timetable. And with that um I will make the motion for to move forward the grain exchange conversion project financing. second. Uh thank you so much. I will also uh make a comment here. I really appreciate uh the developers uh thinking this is something to celebrate. Uh we're talking about this conversion plan in our downtown and especially after the COVID and things are changing around. So, this is will be a really a good model for the city of Minneapolis to follow um to bring people in downtown um they're close to work, a place for um folks to afford. And I did talk to the um the developers uh to really uh even get more deeply affordable housing and they say they will look into it. But um also the exciting part about it is there will be a commercial space in the area uh we're across the street from here you know uh very short distance for for the people that work in this building um to kind of go and and really enjoy uh that uh uh place. So super excited uh for this project and can't wait for the um riet cutting when when this when this will open. Uh with that motion, all those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> And those opposed say nay. The eyes have it and the motion carries. Thank you so much. All right. Uh next item we will it's a quaza judicial hearing. Before we begin, if the applicant is here to testify, you will be granted five minutes to address this committee. All other testifiers will be given to two minutes to address. With that, this item is a variance appeal submitted by the property at 4710 Hanbold Avenue North. I will invite Miles Combo from Cabbed to give us more information about this item. Welcome, sir. >> Thank you, Chair Osman, board members, uh, or committee members, excuse me. Um so this item 4710 Humbult Avenue North as mentioned is an appeal of a decision by the zoning board of adjustment uh back in May when that meeting was held. Um so the variance in this case was regarding a trash enclosure to the rear of an existing 8-unit apartment building at 4710 Humbled Avenue North. Um you can see on the screen here that existing lot. It's a bit of a funky shape being located on Humbled Avenue and Shingo Creek Parkway. Um the parking and the uh trash enclosure as it were are both located to the rear of the building off of the alley itself. So you can see here these are existing conditions on the site um from earlier this spring. Um and trying to give a bit of a view of that entire parking area. So again currently there are eight spaces available for those eight residents in the building. Um there are a couple of other kind of impediments in uh providing screening for that dumpster. Um, so again, the dumpster is located on the far kind of north end of the parking area. Um, it is bracketed by uh some mature trees as well as utility poles on both sides of that parking area. Um, which potentially would need to be modified in conjunction with Excel Energy if the applicant needed more space um to enclose that dumpster itself. Again, they could certainly enclose it by moving it into one of those garage or parking spaces and thereby lose that parking area. Um, ideally they would like to keep um a one:1 ratio for their parking and their residents. Um, you can see that it already is beginning to kind of encroach into that eighth space. Um, one other thing that staff does really want to highlight in terms of context and we'll talk a bit more about the findings that need to be met for a variance. One thing that we always look at is are there unique circumstances to the property that cause the need for a variance or cause the need for kind of a discretion from the code itself. So in this case again located at the corner of Humboldt and Shingle Creek Parkway. Uh Humboldt itself has uh parking restrictions all along it uh north and south and then there is a bus stop directly in front of this building. So basically anything there with a red line would be no street parking allowed. Um there is at least one space on kind of the uh the same block as the apartment building itself and then on the opposite side of the street there is parking available. Um one thing that the applicant noted in their materials to the board of adjustment is just to the southwest and you can see in this image um there's a a number of industrial uses that have a lot of truck traffic that go um and take this turn between the two streets. You can see from that um uh aerial imagery from the uh county that those trucks do take a very wide turn. Um there have been a couple of accidents on that street related to uh trucks hitting parked vehicles in the past. So there was concern from uh the applicant's perspective of moving those residents onto street parking. Um usually not something we talk a lot about with variances. Usually there is a alternative option but here there there definitely is a um a burden here on the property in terms of parking available. Uh when this went to board of adjustment um the staff again felt that it did meet that um unique circumstances finding for a variance. Um however variances require all three findings of the practical difficulties exam to be met in order to be approved. Um and at the time staff did not feel that this met kind of the intent of the code. Again, we require that dumpsters be screened for apartment buildings, one from a visual blight to kind of prevent that view from public streets or other residential uses, but also it serves a practical effect in terms of um being a barrier from a non-resident from dumping their trash um in that area, which seemed to have been an issue in the past with this site. Uh similarly, again, the kind of uh essential character, the injury or detriment to surrounding property owners. Um we noted at board of adjustment that this had five uh complaints since I believe 2002 specifically related to garbage overflowing in the alley. Um so clearly there was a burden being felt by adjacent property owners. Um one thing that we noted at the time and uh this was something where staff and the board of adjustment were both um under the impression that we could not set any sort of conditions related to um hiring a staff person on site. We have confirmed since that meeting with the city attorney's office that one option available to you all would be to condition the varianc's approval on um the hiring or the maintaining of that site through something like a live-in supervisor, a live-in uh building manager. Um it's not probably staff's first uh choice in terms of managing compliance long term, right? There's not a lot of ways for us to ensure that requirement is being met 101 15 years in the future. This variant would run with the land. Um but it does seem to get at those uh secondary points right in terms of the intent of the ordinance being to manage that um potential blight from uh blight and nuisance from the trash and then the uh injury or detriment to other property owners. So with all that I am happy to stand for questions. We also do have um Wayne Carlson the property owner here um available to uh speak on this topic. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you so much Steph. I appreciate your um presentation. We will uh proceed uh to open the public hearing and give uh the applicant a chance to speak for 5 minutes. >> Is this close enough? >> Yes. Please go ahead. >> I I want to thank you for listening to me today. Please, please state your name. >> Pardon? >> State your name. >> I'm Wayne Carlson and I'm the I'm the owner of the Horner Carlson Family Partnership and the building. And I just want to thank you for listening to me for because for me it's very critical what I'm talking about. And I realize that all you people have a lot of things on your agenda that are a lot bigger than my issue. And I thank you for for listening me to today. when I'm I'm filing for an exemption to the the abortive adjustments uh for having a refuge container around my my garbage container. And I'm doing this [clears throat] the bottom line is this having this this surround my garbage container has some unintended consequences. And the basis for that is that all of about two of my eight parking spots, I can't see well are going to be taken up with this with this uh enclosure. And then I have I have really cho three choices I can make. First of all, I can extend the parking lot and it's going to cost about $138,000 to do that. Or I could number two, I could force two tenants to park on the on the only two parking spots available on Shingle Creek Parkway and making them vulnerable a dangerous turning corner for thousands of 18-wheelers. Or I can added to the man and third alternative is the one that I'm proposing that we I can add to the management team a person that would live in the building or tenant that's in the building and daily scan the the uh the parking lot to make sure that there's no stray trash. Um in addition to that I've also at this point also enlarged my my cont my container. Um, when I was before the board of adjustments, it seemed like that wasn't a place for me to really be. And one of the ladies there, is it more important to have a surround or to have control of the rubbish? Um, the initial ownership. I bought this building and preserve a tax-free exchange 25 years ago with the understanding that the building was going to be taken as part of the greenway project. I understand that after I bought it, the intention was changed when the neighbors insisted that the property be left as a buffer to the intersection and the commercial area. [clears throat] My management I managed the property to as a tier one property for 25 years. I I visit the building at least once a week, cleaning the inter interiors, cutting the grass, u blowing the trash out of the parking lot. Um, I believe this this way of management gives me the ability to be on the premises and see what's going on. Over the years, the refuge handling has been changed from individual containers to larger dumpsters to improve the system. The two pictures taken in by Stuart and and I show here by the city shows a clean and orderly dumpster area. All the neighbors have seen that see the dumpster have signed signed a letter back when supporting me and leaving the dumpster as initially the my interaction with the council in an inspection. The inspection department ordered that the I provide a surround. I appealed to the council person veto and she told me she had asked the inspector to leave me alone and I was a tier one landlord and she wanted to keep me in the neighborhood. I talked to council veto after that and she suggested in addition to my hands-on management, I hire someone in the building to daily supervise a rubbish container on a daily basis. I have done that. In addition, I've added on to a a larger container to take care of that. She only recommended that I try and get appeal more to veterans who might have a little more respect for my property. I think this should solve the problem of cleaning up the loose paper and plastic around the building. The cost to comply and keep parking to keeping the parking amenity for the eight tenants requires a parking lot to be extended and paved for two new paces spaces. It require the moving of of one or possibly two utilities poles to create a new to the new space. It also require removal of large tree to the north, one to the south and a hedge to the south. It requires a moving of phone, electrical and comcast lines at incredible cost. The cost to remove the trees, utility poles, dirt removal, and repaving a lot has a cost over $137,000. This is beyond my financial capabilities and most likely forced me to sell the property. The Minneapolis restricted parking. There is no legal parking on either side of the Humboldt, which is the front of the building. And on the side of the building, there is no parking because of the the bus stop. There's basically one and a half spots that people could park there and then that would be subject to a snow emergency. There's no parking to the north there. Basically, there's no parking to any area around my building on the north, south, east, and west except these two parking spot. >> Sir, you run out of time. If you can wrap it up, that would be great. Um, well, I was going in to go into the parking on the street is unsafe because there's 17 about 17,000 turns on that street and there's been three accidents in the last year there with vehicles running into my building. Fronts been blocked off the vehicles and right now there's a there's a a bus stop that's knocked over. So, what I'm suggesting, and I hope that you can concur with this, is that you'll allow me to keep the the way it is, and let me go ahead with getting getting someone in the building to help with the cleaning and take care of that s, but I think this is probably in the best interest of the city, the tenants, and and u the neighbors. And I have all the things I've discussed here are in addendums here in exhibits to to so that you know that what I'm saying is as a basis. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for your time. >> If you have any >> I have another question. I just got a bill here >> for this project for $13,3365. I have no idea what that's >> from the city. We'll have staff to talk to you u after that meeting. Um if you have any documents you'd like to submit in writing, you can give it to the clerk. We can have that in record. All right. Are there anyone who would like to speak on this item? Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and recognize Vice Chair Chowry. >> Thank you so much, Chair Osman. Um, and thank you, Mr. Carlson, for coming down to city hall and writing your appeal. So colleagues just like taking a look at the staff report on this I think like this situation is I would say a little highly unusual. Um I think for me it's very hard uh to consider the granting of a variance um when the code is straightforward. However, the unique circumstances of the situation, I think the the applicant really clearly laid out um there's just it's just a very tenuous corner um for on street parking. Even if you did on street parking, it would go off um in the wintertime and there have been several accidents. And then also, I think Mr. Carlson, in your addendum, you did a good job of laying out the financial hardship and that's something that staff concurred with and I know that council member Vita has been talking to you and trying to figure out a solution um which commend you for reaching out to your council member and trying to figure out what works. My one ask um to consider along with hiring a supervisor is making a plan for if the dumpster overflows, right? where would it where would it go even if you had an on-site person to come and pick it up? I think that's really getting to the heart of kind of the issue that um uh residents have complained about. But the motion that I'm going to make is really based off of what the city attorney's office has said is allowable, which is moving forward with the variance with the condition that uh Mr. Carlson hires an on-site supervisor to clean on a regular basis. And so I guess um one one question that maybe I could ask the applicant if that's all right with you, sir. Um if you want to come up, Mr. Carlson, my question for you, sir, is in addition to the on-site supervisor being there, um will you just commit to making a plan for maybe uh if there's extra space needed for overflowing trash? I know someone will come and clean it up, but just making sure that there's a way for community members in your building to know that there's uh a way to address the situation as it occurs. Um, I guess what I can say is this generally happens when someone is moved out and like in the last one I had moved out, I had a eight yard container come over and we put all the garbage in that that container and had it moved out that way. So I guess I've already I think I've answered your question by my actions already. Is is that what I answered that >> in part? Just making sure that I think the goal is getting at ensuring that there's no overflow of trash and trash on the ground and sounds like the supervisor is going to help with that, but making sure that folks feel like they have a way to understand that this is go that's how they can um address the situation. Just making it clear to your tenants that this is available to them. [clears throat] >> What is available to them? the on-site supervisor and additional cleaning if we grant you the variance. >> They know that someone is doing that. >> Yeah. And how to get a hold of them. I know you're at the property once a week. You shared in your addendum. >> Of course. And I think I think they already know who. >> Oh, good. It's just it's obvious. >> I just asked cuz it's highly unusual for us to grant a variance for something like this, but we have a way to condition it. But the goal is to address the problem at hand. And sounds like there's a good plan for it. >> Well, I I I concur with what you're trying to do. >> Okay. Well, thank you, sir. That's the motion that I'll be making. >> Second. >> All right. Uh, see no one else. I will >> apologies. Can I just seek clarification here? Um, if the intent is to move forward uh with an approval of the appeal, I would respectfully recommend in that case that you do move this forward without recommendation at this moment and direct staff to prepare findings of fact in accordance with that motion. Okay, that sounds good, Attorney Schut. So ultimately the goal is to move for the appeal, grant the appeal with the condition to hire an on-site supervisor and we will ask staff to work with us um to create the findings and we'll move forward without recommendation. >> Without recommendation >> I think it's >> all right. Um perfect. Thank you council member. Um so with that motion from council vice chair Shery all those in favor say I. >> I. >> And those oppose say nay. The eyes have it and the motion carries. All right. Thank you. >> All right. Uh next item is second here. >> Is it cash? Okay. There we go. Thank you. Next item is a discussion. We have a discussion item related to the historical designation of Lakeshore Arms Apartment located at 20 I'm sorry 3026 Lake Street. I welcome Rob um from Cabbed to give us that presentation. Welcome. >> Thank you, Chair Osman, and good afternoon council members. My name is Rob Scleki. I'm a senior city planner in the historic preservation team in CPAD planning division. Uh today I'm presenting the designation of the Lakeshore Arms Apartments which are located at 3026 Lake Street West. On August 12th, 2025, the Heritage Preservation Commission voted to approve the nomination for the property at 3026 Lake Street West as a landmark. They established interimm protection at that time and directed the planning director to prepare or cause to be prepared a designation study. That nomination application was submitted by Minneapolis HPC Commissioner Amy Thomas. Following that, CPED staff compiled a designation study of the property that was completed in April of 2026. Staff sent the study to the state historic preservation office for review and comment. The study concluded that the property is eligible for landmark designation under local criterion 4 for architecture. At their June 6th, 2026 meeting, the HPC voted to recommend approval for the designation. The subject property is a two-story brick veneer apartment building with a basement halfstory. The apartment was built with 17 units and a basement level garage. The building is clad in light brown or tan brick and has a flat roof with parapits that includes select locations with shaped roof sections to add ornament. The property was designed by the architect's bard in Vanderbilt and it was built by and for owner Morris Track, a local builder and developer. The building received building permit approval in October of 1930 and newspaper records began announcing the building opening um by March 1931. The construction of Lakeshore Arms Apartments is tied to the growth of multif family housing options that appeared around Uptown and the Cedar Isles Dean area in the 1920s and 1930s. The urban setting and connection to the lakes attracted Minneapolis residents in the early 20th century with the promise of urban life mixed with water recreation amenities. Mediterranean design influences were especially common in the area and Spanish eclectic style buildings became popular. The property was designed using the Spanish eclectic architectural style and retains a significant degree of original architectural features. Those include, but are not limited to, a shaped main doorway that includes a heavy wood door, light colored brick cladding, row iron grills and sconce lights, cast cement ornamentation including floral patterns, a shield motif and quattrafoil concrete relief. A cast cement balcony uh with prominent cast cement ballastrade shaped openings, spiraled columns, varied roof shapes as ornament applied to the parapit roof, clay tile caps and clay roof tiles, multi-lite wood double hung sash windows and multillight French doors at various openings and patios and balconies um throughout the building. Properties built in the Spanish eclectic architectural style uh used traditional Spanish design trends incorporating balconies and plazas and courtyards and patios to create an apparent association between the building and the natural environment. And this is evident in the Lakeshore Arms Apartments. Chapter 599 of the Minneapolis Code of Ordinances requires that the designation be submitted to the Minnesota State Historic Preservation Office for review and comment. Um, this was done and the Minnesota State Historic Preservation Office concurred with the designation study findings and recommended in a letter dated May 19th, 2026 that the property appeared to be an excellent candidate for local designation under that criterion 4 for architecture. In order for the HPC and council to approve a landmark designation, the following two findings must be made. one, that the property or collection of properties meets at least one local criterion to be designated as a landmark or historic district, and two, that the property or collection of properties retains sufficient historic integrity to be designated as a landmark or historic district. Staff and the HBC concur that the Lakeshore Arms Apartments meets local designation criterion 4 as a property that embodies distinctive characteristics of the Spanish eclectic architectural style and meets finding one and that Lakeshore Arms Apartments retains all seven aspects of historic integrity including location, setting, design, materials, workmanship, feeling and association to meet finding two. Um staff has been in contact with the property owner about the designation study and designation process. Um the owner has stated opposition to the designation for many reasons and those written comments are included for council member uh council members to consider. Um I believe the owner is here today and may um want to speak if possible. Staff will also note that the owner has, as I mentioned, um been um clear about the opposition to the designation, but staff has received over 15 public comments that support the historic designation of the property. With that, I'm available as staff to answer any questions. Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Steph. I appreciate your presentation. Um this is a discussion at the same time um the decision we have to make. So, it's not a public hearing. I'm open to uh given an opportunity to uh for the owner to speak. But before that, I will recognize council member Schaefer. >> Um can I speak after the owner speaks? >> If he wants to speak, I don't know if the owner is here or welcome. Would you like to speak? >> Yes, sir. >> Yep. We'll give you two minutes to speak if that's okay. Come on. Um it's not a um quas introduce anything like that but I would say um usually we give the applicant seven minutes or so but um it's not set up that way today so I would just give you a short time to kind of give us a little bit of >> um >> okay chairman Osmond and vice chair Cowry and committee members. My name is Steve Hornig and together with my brother Gary, we purchased Lakeshore Arms last about a year ago now. Uh and uh my family has owned, restored, and managed apartment buildings in Minneapolis for four generations, over a hundred years. We believe in historic preservation. uh that it is an important public policy and nothing I say today should be interpreted otherwise. Uh I want to begin uh and make it very clear that I accept the HPC's pre the HPC's conclusion that Lakeshore Arms possesses sufficient architectural significance to qualify for designation. The issue is that over 17 buildings that were also uh designed by CJ Bard uh are also beautiful buildings in South Minneapolis that are equal to my building. The designation study never cited that for one reason or another my building was more special than any of the other buildings. You'll see pictures uh of them uh in the uh slides that I've I've prepared. Maybe if we could roll up just uh couple more on this. No, can't do that. Can I do that? Let's see here. Okay. So, here is a collection of all of the barred buildings in South Minneapolis. They're absolutely gorgeous. There's nothing that my building has over any of these others. And so the cru crucial question is why was my building chosen? Um >> sorry, please continue. I I want to hear >> um uh your your your responsibility here is much broader than looking at the architectural features of this. Um you under the statute uh the ordinance chapter 599 uh you're required to look more broadly not only at historic preservation but also the economic growth and general welfare of the city and the implementation of the Minneapolis comprehensive plan. That requires balancing on your part uh several public balancing several important public policies, not just preservation. I respectfully submit that when all of these policies are considered together, designation of this particular property is not in the city's best interest. >> Sir, if you can drive it up, please. >> Uh so we've had we have 17 other properties. Mine is not chosen. Uh, two other quick points. Uh, under the demolition statute, if you don't designate this today, the demolition statute of Minnesota is Minneapolis is very protective of buildings that are on a special list, which my building is, >> that if there's ever a demolition permit uh, put forth, there'll be another opportunity to look at this. And I think to foreclose the city to give up the possibility of uh a greater development to not only for housing, more housing uh that includes affordable inclusionary housing uh without seeing a specific proposal even being presented is really premature. >> We appreciate your time. I'm sorry. Um we run out of time. >> Um I see council member Schaefer. Thank you, Mr. Hornig, for those thoughts. Um, and thank you for uh your long history of providing affordable housing in Minneapolis in many of our communities um across many wards. And I know that uh there are ups and downs to the housing industry. Um but I want to say thank you for um that provision and that commitment to affordable housing in our space. Today I will be baking a motion to deny um the historic designation um primarily as you can remember from the first picture um that this is really a building that is on um and surrounded by more high density apartment buildings and we I know that we have heard today that he has no plans to demolish this building and we have the de demolition statute to fall back on. Um, putting this historic designation in place now would completely foreclose the addition of higher density housing at this spot at any point in the future, which is really inconsistent with many of the 2040 plan goals for this area. Um, so I will be um supporting this um denial of the historic landmark uh designation. >> Thank you, Council Member Schaefer. I will recognize Council Member Chaveis. >> Uh thank you, Chair Osman. And I guess maybe ask my colleague Council Schaefer if she would move the the motion to deny without recommendation. I just would rather have more conversations with staff about what this means. So, at least I don't want to commit to my position today. I I want to have more conversations about how this came to be. And I do have questions. So, I rather >> That's absolutely fine with me, Council Member Chavez. >> Thank you, Vice Chair Chry. >> Thank you. I have a question for staff. >> Thanks, Rob. Um, I just wanted to know, I think the property owner brought up a good point of the many other properties that are designed by the same architects. How how was that how was the these properties selected and is there a plan in the future to look at the other properties? >> Yeah, thank you, Chair Osman and Council Member Chowy. Um so within the designation study that staff wrote um a lot of the buildings that were identified and actually shown by the property owner were identified through that study. So initially we were looking to see if the property met our local criterion six which would be tied to um a master industry professional like an architect. So that's part of the reason why we looked at these other buildings designed by this architect. We ultimately didn't recommend um designation under that criteria specifically because the um the firm of Bard and Vanderbilt um was distinct and and that is the the firm that designed this building um whereas Carlblard when he practiced independently earlier was was making designs similar to those that that were shown. So to the other point, when staff is looking at properties that embody distinctive characteristics of an architectural style under criterion four to be considered for for landmark status, we do look at um other properties and consider if they retain historic integrity. So um do they still communicate their historic significance? And when looking at Lakeshore Arms, we were able to deduce that there's a lot that is still there to be able to communicate that it is an example of this architectural style. Um, that's not to say that if a building comes in the future, that is also this style. You know, if that can't be considered if this one is is is designated. Um, so with that, staff were able to to look through in in the study and and determine that this property did meet that criterion for to be considered for landmark status. >> Thank you. That's helpful. And then one final question for me just to clarify cuz I know we're moving this forward without recommendation. I I think I definitely need some more time to have conversations ahead of full counsel. Um, should this go ahead? Um, and this is also just for my understanding for future local historic designations if it comes to us. Should the should a resolution pass through this body, what are the next steps that follow? I know you said it in your presentation, but I'm kindly asking you to repeat it. >> Sure, Chair Osman, Council Member Chowy, to clarify, are you asking if if this is approved or denied >> after after approval, if there is approval, what happens next? >> Sure. If if this is approved um or recommended approval today, it will go up of course through city council for um your vote on on the resolution. Um and then that goes up to the mayor's desk and once it's signed and published, then that would be when it would formally become a city Minneapolis landmark. Um, from that point forward, any changes to the building would be reviewed by um, federal standards through the National Park Service to make sure that um, any changes to the exterior are being sensitive to the property significance. Um, and if a future property owner would want to demolish, they have the ability to submit an application called the demolition of designated property to to make that decision at a future date if if it comes to that. >> And that would go to the HPC, right? future demolition. Okay. And the is landmark designation any different than historic preservation or are they the same? >> So it would be the same. I think landmark designation at the local level is different from national register listing. So I don't know if that um I think there's sometimes some confusion between those two but this is of course local landmark designation that we're considering today. >> And then if denied what happens? So, if the designation is denied, um, and the property owner brought up a point, it could be brought forward in the future. Um, if if that's the case, there would have to be, um, a three-year waiting period for someone to consider it, nominating it again in the future. Uh, but there is a possibility to reconsider a history of a site um with a, you know, future timeline. So, >> okay, great. That's all my questions. Really appreciate it. >> All right. Uh, Council Member Rainville. >> Uh, thank you. I do have a question for staff. Why was this property chosen to study? >> Chair Osman, Council Member Rainville. Um, this was submitted as a nomination by a Minneapolis Heritage Preservation Commissioner and they do have the authority um to do that and I I think it was just a personal interest in the site that um led to that. >> Thank you. >> All right. I see no one up. Council member Chavez, >> one last thing I guess, um, one, I'm still trying to learn more about this. I had a full council, so I'll probably be reaching out. My question is, let's just say, and I don't know what way the council's going to decide on this issue, but let's just say they decide to approve it. Does staff have any concerns that they would set a precedent for the rest of the buildings that were identified and what that would mean for housing in our city? I don't know. I'm just wondering, >> Chair Osman, Council Member Chavez, I I think I understand your question. You know, there's never going to be a precedent setting decision for um any property in the city that's being considered for for landmark status. Um but, you know, at any point in the future, if if a one of the nominators who is able to nominate a property the city wants to bring forward um one of the other examples for consideration, that is a possibility. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. Um with that motion to forward this item without recommendation. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> And those opposed say nay. The eyes have it and the motion carries. All right. Our last item is a presentation related to the imprevious services. Here's a presentation from Miles Compel from CBET. Welcome. >> Thank you, Chair Osman. Committee members. um I will be presenting today but we also do have uh further staff from our public works department surface water and sewers uh available for any questions you all might have at the end. Again, this is a uh receiving file for a legislative directive uh that came out of council member Wanley's office last year um looking at impervious services and in particular artificial turf or synthetic turf systems um and how those could be uh how they are currently managed in code, how they could be managed in code um and kind of those long-term impacts for those systems. Um one of the principal questions uh that we started out with was just what is artificial turf? Um a kind of working definition that we had this actually is not in the code today. It was uh proposed by our code development team uh independent from this legislative directive as they were looking at kind of our single family housing code. Um looking at updating uh the definitions chapter to address artificial or hybrid turf, a system which has the appearance of natural turf grass or re reinforces natural turf grass but is not 100% natural turf grass. Um basically what I would say again this was a a pretty broad definition. I think it is a good starting point to think about it. There are a really broad range of these types of systems out there. Um they can take many different forms. Um one other thing that I would note though is we um in terms of our literature review, the uh Minnesota stormwater manual is preparing and has been kind of preparing to uh provide some guidance on synthetic turf systems. It was a requirement from the legislature I believe last year through a study essentially that might also really uh inform what we end up if we adopt a definition of artificial or synthetic turf. Um looking at kind of the state level what they're um proposing in terms of how artificial turf is regulated today. I think the the main thing that I do want to leave with you all here is that it is not a prohibited thing in the city. Uh folks can have artificial turf. Um the main two standards in zoning that they are subject to would be impervious surface requirements. So we have a maximum on imperous surface that you can have on a particular lot depending on the zoning district. Um and we currently treat artificial turf as an impervious surface. Uh similar to uh other things like permeable pavers that you know purport and represent that they are permeable but which either have maintenance requirements or which may have other drawbacks. uh and secondarily it is not considered an alternative to required landscaping. So when we talk about um required yards for a property you cannot have artificial turf in those required yards in lie of a natural grass or natural landscaping. Um if you cannot meet those two standards in terms of providing artificial turf uh typically and historically the avenue for you has been to seek a land use experience from those requirements. Um and then from the public works perspective, they noted that any project that does disturb over half an acre or more of soils uh does need to demonstrate compliance with city storm water requirements. So that includes runoff rate control, water quality and volume control. uh typically how that works and again I would defer any really in-depth scientific questions to our storm our surface bar and sewer staff but um design documents are provided as part of that uh application that are then used to model or simulate the performance of uh that ground cover material in a rain event or storm event. Um, one thing to note here, there really is not a application or a permit or other um, regulatory document that would trigger for a very small scale um, application. So, if someone wanted to replace their front yard with artificial turf, there right now is just not a um, a review mechanism or anything that triggers a city review. And that would be um, something that would need to be created and obviously has kind of knock-on effects in terms of enforcement. Uh part of this legislative directive was looking at the climate and water quality impacts. You know, how can um we uh justify artificial turf as an allowed uh material in lie of some of our goals around climate sustainability in the 2040 plan. Um in terms of those that work in favor of artificial turf, uh there's definitely an argument for decreased water usage. It's part of the reason why they've seen a much larger uptick in like the southwestern United States and dry areas. Um, it also typically incorporates recycled materials. So, um, we're going to talk a little bit about rubber crumb or crumb rubber infill. Uh, those are typically made out of recycled tires and that is really one of the few ways that um, the industry has found to reuse that type of material. And then the other uh, note is from like a sustainability or you know the the climate cost to the functional or the use cost. Typically those artificial systems, especially here in the north where we have kind of wacky weather over winter and spring, um they have a longer usable period. So an artificial turf is ready sooner and is playable longer into the fall and into uh early winter than a natural turf. In terms of kind of points against artificial turf, um one of the main things is that this would be a contributor to urban heat island effect um in terms of that plastic does retain and hold on to heat a lot more than a natural grass would. Obviously, if you're replacing natural landscaping, you're losing some biodiversity and natural habitat. Um, and then there is a just a higher carbon footprint in installing uh an artificial turf field. Um, there can be some savings in terms of again having decreased water usage. Um, but a thing to keep in mind is that these typically have about a 10-year lifespan. So even if they're using recycled materials and even if they're allowing for a longer, you know, in-ear usability, there's still going to be kind of a a deadline on that field where it needs to then be disposed of typically to just a landfill. Um again, I mentioned that rubber crumb infill material. This was one where we did reach out to our environmental health staff um and they really highlighted a lot of concerns about the um potential storm water impacts of that rubber chrome material washing out into uh water bodies around us. Um specifically there has been some studies uh monitoring levels of heavy metals, pas um phahes and just in general microplastics. They're a major source. Um, again, more so from the um kind of habitat or economic health or uh ecological health, excuse me, rather than um like a person playing on the field is not necessarily going to be subject to some of those chemicals, but it would run off into the water. looking at kind of changes to the ordinance and specifically looking at the zoning code because that typically has been the the larger barrier for some of the projects that we've seen in the past like five t years that have come in looking to do artificial turf either for like an athletic field context or for again a more residential um or quasi residential use. Um one is that right now obviously we uh treat artificial turf as an impervious surface. One option would be to exclude those types of materials from maximum impervious surface calculations. Um there's a couple concerns here from staff center on this. One is partly just allowing for more of these types of services is not necessarily in line with a lot of our long-term sustainability goals. Um obviously we mentioned urban heat island. Uh if you just kind of roll these out in a lot of different areas, we're going to see an uptick in that kind of uh heat retention at the ground level. Um the other side is just though from a like enforcement perspective and a um kind of the uh infrastructure surrounding these types of uses. and we would need to create some sort of a permit uh to facilitate these types of applications. Along with that, there'd be inspections and then um long-term compliance, which it was really not something that our inspectors do today. Uh secondarily would be to essentially allow artificial turf as a replacement for natural landscaping. Uh again, there is uh some argument for where that could be allowed as a permitted obstruction or where it could be allowed in those required yard areas. Um staff does have concerns about kind of wholesale treating this as a landscaping material. Um we have had a couple of cases in the past um I think since uh 2020 where we've now allow things like landscape rock to be used in certain areas. Um but typically there are restrictions there in terms of requiring plantings to be still spaced in that. It can't just be landscape rock or you can't have it in areas that would wash out to your uh neighbors property. Um, so there certainly essentially looking at artificial turf would probably also require looking at some of those other non-natural or non-landscaping materials. Again, I talked a little bit about kind of there is not a a regulatory arm right now for this. Um, one of the major impacts would just be increased staff needs in terms of again our inspectors are not currently trained to um, we obviously would need to kind of create a performance standard for um, any of these systems that are going to be deemed as pvious versus impervious surface. Um, and then kind of how do you maintain that compliance long term. So one of the issues we have right now with things like permeable pavers, we typically don't count those as pvious service. Even though if you maintain them correctly and install them correctly, they can function well. Um the bigger issue is that maintenance, right? How do we know that 5 years, 10 years down the line, that property owner is still um having that function at the highest level uh in terms of how other cities are looking at this. Uh, and as I mentioned, you probably have heard a lot more about artificial turf from like a Arizona or a California or a kind of drier climate um, area. And that is because there is that kind of decreased water need. Um, when we looked at some of our peer cities in terms of size, but also in terms of being kind of more northern in the United States, there wasn't as much um, robust language in those uh, cities in terms of zoning or policy. Most tended to treat it similar to how we kind of do today in terms of being impervious surface. Um, a very recent example though that staff would highlight is uh the city of Denver in following um the state of Colorado's recent uh legislative language is adopting um definitions for functional landscape area versus non-functional landscape area. Um that is looking at both artificial turf and natural turf from a perspective of limiting um just kind of grass or green space as a a ground cover. um and instead kind of putting the focus on we are going to allow artificial turf where it's being used for an athletic field or a functional purpose. Uh that could be something that the city looks at if again there is an appetite to take up the question of artificial turf. Um but again I would say from staff's perspective uh in looking at the zoning code there probably is some ability to again add a definition daylight a little bit of these um the existing provisions. Um, but there are larger concerns with uh kind of opening Pandora's box and allowing these across the city. Again, I'm happy to stand for any questions you all may have. This is our uh project team as well. As I mentioned, we did uh work with the health department a little bit and major shout out to them for providing some guidance on uh the materials. Um and yeah, we are happy to answer any questions. >> Colleagues, is there any questions on this presentation? Council member Warren, >> I don't like plastic grass. [laughter] >> Thank you. I mean, I I was just going to quick make a comment myself. I think there's definitely something worth looking into in terms of the types of artificial turf even allowed as a functional use that we should look at as a city in 2024. The EU put a ban on crumb rubber infill turf uh due to uh uh concerns around microlastics, POS, heavy metals as laid out by staff. And there's other alternatives um that are available that are organic like cork, sand or uh parts of the outer husk of a coconut. And and in the planning commission, there has been a few different types of artificial turf that's come before us, but I think this is a definitely an interesting starting point for this conversation that I do feel like will come back to us eventually because artificial turf has had that um had that type of way of coming back to biz or the planning commission. Members, is there any other questions on this presentation? Yeah, just just I remember debating this while uh University of Minnesota um housing area. Do we have a city policy or uh ordinance that really clears out what's appropriate and what's not? Yep. Yeah. I just wanted to know, do we have a city ordinance policy that really says uh you know where to apply and who can have artificial um turf. >> Sure. Uh chair Osman. Um I think generally we we do right. So artificial turf is um permitted um as a similarly to how we would do um other types of hardscaping. So it's allowed within the confines of that. So as long as it's outside of the required yard and it doesn't exceed the impervious coverage, but you can't cover your entire property with it. Um and so I think um from staff's perspective, our research really supported the current policy um with maybe the exception around where it could be applied um in more practical settings like athletic fields or playgrounds. Um in those kinds of environments, it might make sense to be a little bit more permissive. [clears throat] Um but I think staff's recommendation at this point is that we would um hold with our current regulations. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Um that's it. Just just wanted to make that point. I think the last item that came through is whole discussion about this uh and the uniqueness of technology and how things are changing now uh and you know uh places that that you can apply uh could be could be a conversation. So, it's kind of nice to be clear of uh what's allowed and what's not allowed and also at the same time think about it if we might if there might be an opportunity to update our policies based on the technologies that are are coming forward each day. Um that's it. >> Yeah, Council Member Warren, thank you. I'm I'm glad to hear you say that you can't cover your entire yard with this imperous grass because you're not even seeing worms come out the ground anymore when it rains. We have had a lot of rain and I bet you haven't even seen worms crawling all over the sidewalk. You used to have to sweep the sidewalk to get rid of all the worms. What happened to the worms? And I think this impervious grass and all of these artificial turfs is the reason why we don't even have good quality worms anymore. You know, this is really sad. So, I think I'm glad to hear that people can't cover their entire whatevers with this, but we should be very careful about the things that we're doing to our environment and just grow regular grass and do like old crotchety contankerous people used to do when we were kids back in the early 80s. tell people to stay off your yard. The end. >> Thank you, Council Member. Council member Schaefer. >> Yeah, I'll just make a couple comments. One is that I know Crumb Rubber is not used um at all in the park system anymore. Um there may be some latent outliers, but that's not uh that's not where they move forward. And many of the soccer fields are sandfilled, Elliot. Um, and then I would say I'm not sure um we as a city have jurisdiction over fields and playgrounds um that would be on parkland. So that might be a question um just for further investigation. Um that was my one comment. Thank you. We could ask that question now because now I'm curious if we have any jurisdiction. >> I don't think we do but maybe we do. >> I don't think we do. uh through the chair uh councelor Schaefer. Um so the city does have zoning authority over the parks which would include the the improvious coverage and the materials. >> Okay, thank you. >> Okay, that's very useful. Um >> is there anyone else that wants to be in queue? Council member Chavez, >> uh I'll be quick. Thank you all so much. uh whatever we need to do to make sure that we're not using these materials as often as some folks do. That's what I would like to do cuz it really does have a detrimental impact on people's health. So, I at least end the worms that council member Warren mentioned. But yeah, in general, thank you so much to staff for the presentation today. I'd like to know in the future based on this presentation which has been outlined what we need to do to make sure that we're not using these artificial things that are really impacting people's health. So yeah, I just want to mention that. >> Thanks. Yeah, I'll just close off by saying unless anyone else gets in quue. I think if we have pvious papers that are considered impervious, I think that should be the same thing for artificial turf grass because it's really about maintenance and our enforcement capacity is very limited and doing enforcement on turf grass that isn't wellmaintained I don't think is a valuable use of city resources, but definitely much to think about. Um, seeing no one else in Q and no further discussion, I'll direct the clerk to file that staff report and presentation. And no further business before us. And with no objection, I will declare this meeting adjourned. >> Oh my god.