Welcome to the regular meeting of the Public Health, Safety, and Equity Committee for June 17, 2026. I am Jason Chavez, the chair of this committee. Before we begin the meeting, I want to offer a friendly reminder to all members, staff, and the public that these meetings are broadcast live to enable greater public participation. These broadcasts include real-time captioning as a further method to increase the accessibility of our proceedings to the community. Therefore, all speakers need to be mindful of the rate of their speech so that our captioners can fully capture and transcribe all comments for the broadcast. We ask all speakers to moderate the speed and clarity of their comments. At this time, I will ask the clerk to call the roll so we can verify quorum for this meeting. >> Council member Payne. >> Present. >> Wantzely. Absent. Rainville. >> Present. >> Vita. >> Present. >> Whiting. >> Present. >> Vice Chair Stevenson. Absent. Chair Chavez. >> Present. >> That is five members present. >> Let the record reflect that we have a quorum. And I'll let the public know that Councilmember Stevenson has joined us. I'll remind my colleagues that we'll be using speaker management today, so please make sure you're signed in. Our agenda is in front of us, and we will begin with the consent agenda. After our consent agenda, we will then move on to the public hearings. If you would like to speak during a public hearing and have not signed up yet, please see the clerks in the hall and register. I'm going to get my queue up. All right, colleagues. On our consent agenda, item number four authorizes a revenue contract with the Minnesota Timberwolves to provide bomb detection security services at Target Center. Item number five accepts the National Environmental Health Association and FDA retail flexible funding model grant to authorize an agreement for the grants. Item number six accepts the Bloomberg Philanthropic Grant for youth climate leadership and engagement and authorizes a contract for the grants. Item seven and eight are gift acceptances to attend conferences. Item number nine through 14 approve appointments to the advisory committee on people with disabilities, public health advisory committee, advisory committee on aging, homegrown food council, community commission on police oversight, and the Safe and Thriving Communities Work Group. Item number 15 authorizes an MOU with the University of Minnesota to work with Capstone students. Item 16 is a second request for an update on the status of a legislative directive regarding the city's data practices related to unlawful actions of federal agents. Item 17 and 18 approve legislative directive related to police off-duty regulation and a direction to the City Attorney's Office related to police off-duty management. Item number 19 approves a legislative directive related to an alternative site for police officers to use for a gun range activity. Item 20 approves a staff direction to research and analyze the organizational structures of institutions that provide comprehensive public safety services. Item 21 postpones considerations and next steps for the law enforcement concealment of identity ordinance until our next PHS meeting, July 8th. Item 23 and 22 refer to staff the subject matter of an ordinance related to drug paraphernalia decriminalization and cannabis paraphernalia decriminalization. Item 24 sets a public hearing for July 8th to consider the mayor's nomination of Kaleab Mulugeta to appointed position of Civil Rights Department Director. Colleagues, is there any discussion or any items that anybody would like to pull for the discussion? All right. With that, I'll move up items 4 through 15 and 17 through 20 for approval. I'll ask the clerk to receive and file number 16, postpone number 21, and refer staff's items 22 and 23 and set a public hearing for 24. Are there any questions? All right. All those in favor, say I. I. Those opposed, say nay. Any abstentions? And those motions carry. Next, we'll take up our public hearings reflected in items 1 through 3 on the agenda. Anybody who signed up for these items will be given 2 minutes each to testify. I will ask to please keep it 2 minutes. If you go over 2 minutes, I usually let you slide with 10 more seconds, but after that, [clears throat] I will have to cut you off because we have a packed agenda and we have to follow our rules here. If anyone has questions, please see our clerks at the registration table outside the hall. For anyone in attendance, and especially those who may participate in our hearings or comment period, let me offer this notice. These hearings are being recorded and broadcast. Both the recording and the broadcast are classified as public data under Minnesota Government Data Practices Act. By attending and participating in these proceedings, your image and testimony or information that you provide will also be subject to disclosure under that law. That includes, but is not limited to your attendance, your name, and other personal details you provide, as well as any testimony or comments you provide, which includes any written submissions you make, which are included in the record of this meeting. Our first public hearing is to consider the mayor's nomination of Rachel Sawyer to the appointed position of Emergency Management Director. To introduce this item, we have been joined by Mayor Frey, welcome, who will now invite who I'll now invite to speak on this nomination. >> Thank you, uh, Chair Chavez, Vice Chair Stevenson, members of the City Council. Thank you so much for taking the time to hear my nomination of Director of Emergency Management Rachel Sayre. Uh, we're lucky to have Rachel Sayre in Minneapolis. We're lucky that she has chosen to do this job. Uh, we're extraordinarily fortunate to have had her leadership, especially during some of the most critical incidents that our city has ever faced. And I can tell you with direct experience that she's done this job with great poise and clarity, uh, and she has brought our emergency management in Minneapolis to a level where we've never seen it before. And there's incredible differences. Uh, if you look at the juxtaposition between the way that we were organized and set up as a city back in 2020, uh, and the way that we've conducted emergency management over, let's say, the last year and a half. Um, we didn't sit on our hands, uh, following the, uh, murder of George Floyd and the subsequent unrest. Uh, we did work. We ran practices. We conducted simulations. We ran trainings in National Incident Management System, all culminating in a trip out to Emmitsburg, Maryland, and further culminating in the hiring of an incredible director with a great deal of experience both building out a team and working in very complex situations. Director Rachel Sayre uh, has worked in some tumultuous conditions both locally in [clears throat] the United States and abroad. When I first nominated Director Rachel Sayre in 2024, I noted her credentials as a senior humanitarian advisor with USAID, an incident commander during the 2023 Haiti disaster, uh, and her experience leading the US humanitarian strategy for those that were displaced in Poland following Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022. So of course I was immensely impressed with her credentials. Can't write even make up a better resume than that. Um but I'll also at the time she showed a very deep commitment to this city. Um and so today after a year of navigating what has been a gauntlet of new scenarios um scenarios that never in a million years did I think we would have to face as a community. Uh scenarios involving an invasion by our own federal government. Um I mean certainly as an emergency management director you prepare for a multitude of scenarios. Um that has not been on the docket in the United States uh for quite some time. It is now. Uh and because we've had such an incredible leader at the helm someone who's able to organize us in that cabinet room and well beyond. Someone that is able to deal with the aftermath and the repercussions of these crises as they often have long tails and someone that has this deep commitment to our city. I'm I'm really glad that you're here. I think we're all lucky to have you. Council members I appreciate your time and I ask for your support. >> Thank you thank you Mayor Frey. I will also recognize the presence of intense of Council member Warsame. At this time I'm going to proceed to open the public hearing for this appointment. The first person signed up is Eric. Welcome. Okay. Thank you. >> Mr. Chair committee members my name is Eric Waggy. I'm the emergency management director for Hennepin County. I speak in support of Rachel Sears nomination. Great cities require great emergency management incidents in such cities are more frequent. Uh they require more complex response. The needs are greater. So, big city responses are by nature big. And oftentimes you hear the elephant analogy. How do you deal with a big problem? Just like dealing with a big elephant, take it one piece at a time. And that's how response is really constructed. So, all the different specialties go off and they work on their specialized portions of an incident response. But there's one department that has to keep its head up and take a look at the entire elephant for the entire time. And that's emergency management. It's a unique function. It takes all those different pieces and make sure that they're all aligned. Make sure that um no one gets overlooked. Everybody who needs services gets the services that they need. And uh it's a big job. It requires big thoughts and uh complex, you know, relationships and negotiations. And so, Rachel Sayers worked with such elephants before, as the mayor mentioned, in overseas contexts and environments which are very, very challenging. She brought that experience here to Minneapolis. We're lucky to have her in the county. I'm fortunate to be able to work with her in my capacity. She's jumped right into the frying pan and has had a rapid succession of complex incidents with which to deal with. Um she works very well with these specialties. She works uh very well with uh um other emergency managers. And she keeps the residents in the foremost of her thoughts. And that's what drives her mission and her determination. So, she's been a terrific partner and I just wanted to briefly speak in support of her nomination. And I'd urge uh an extension um for her in this position. Thank you. >> Next up, we have Michelle Sullivan. >> All right. Thank you. Uh good afternoon, Chair Cha- Chair Chavez, members of the committee. My name is Michelle Sullivan and I am the resiliency and recovery director at Annunciation School and Church. Um I think it goes without saying, but just as a reminder, on August 27th of 2025, we experienced the worst thing that a school and a church can experience, in a school shooting in which two children were killed and 27 of our community members were injured, many severely. I am here to speak in support of Director Rachel Sear and her reappointment as Director of Emergency Management Services for the City of Minneapolis. I support everything that was said by Mayor uh Frey earlier, so I'm not going to repeat myself on the what. What I would like to say is to tell you a little bit about things that are actually very rarely seen in public or are on the record, in police records, or on the record um in our government affairs. I want to talk about the how. The way that Rachel shows up, and I call her Rachel because that is what she's become known to. I mean it as no disrespect, Director Sear, but I say it because that is how she is known to our Annunciation community and our neighborhood, and I would say Southwest Minneapolis. Um South Minneapolis. I don't need to remind you that at the time of what we experienced, very soon after, there were competing resources being asked for in light of what was spoken about earlier in terms of what happened to our city as ice came in. Not once did Director Sear say, "I'm sorry, we've got another priority. You're going to have to put you on hold for a moment." She showed up every single Monday at 11:00 a.m., even when I was late, and even when I couldn't show up because I was so overwhelmed by the amount of needs that our community had, and she was there to support, and she did it with compassion. She did it with neutrality. And the last thing that I will say as I go through is that she serves as a leader for others. She has taught me how to do my job. She is an inspiration. And I'm sorry. I know I'm I'm going to say one more thing now. There was a community member who said to me, "I really appreciate when people do their jobs and they do the what, but I wonder if they love us." >> Thank you. >> I know that Rachel loves us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And I just want to remind the public we have a variety of public testimony, a lot of public hearings, a lot of discussion items, and we will not be able to get through everything if everybody goes over their time limit. Next step, we have Michelle Merens. >> Good afternoon, Chair Chavez, members of the committee. My name is Michelle Tran Merens. I'm the president of the Minnesota Council on Foundation, also known as MCF. And I'm here to speak in support of Rachel Sarah continuing in her role as director of the Emergency Management Department here in the city of Minneapolis. Rachel's been an amazing asset for our community over the past few months because of her extensive knowledge of how to coordinate information and resources to meet needs during an emergency based on her many years of work at USAID. At the beginning of Operation Metro Surge, she immediately reached out to key members of the community, including MCF, to understand what needs were emerging and what resources philanthropy philanthropy and others might be able to provide to meet those needs in the city. She shared information that she heard from nonprofits and others on what the needs were and kept us updated on the changing and emerging needs. First, it was more around food, then as the first of the month came around, it became more around rental assistance, and now more focused on mental health needs for families that have been impacted. She's worked with us to gather information from both us for both the preliminary impact assessment as well as the more updated assessment that was published more recently. And she participates in our regular cross-sector coordination meetings to help all sectors of our community understand what the city is planning on doing, and to understand what each sector is planning on doing, as well. She continues to participate these on a monthly basis. I wholeheartedly recommend that Rachel continue in her role as director of the Emergency Management Department here in the City of Minneapolis. Thank you. >> Thank you. Is there anybody else that would like to address this committee? Going once, going twice, going three times. See no See no one else wishing to speak, I will now close this hearing and invite, uh, our nominee to provide a statement. Welcome, Director Sayer. >> Thank you. Good afternoon, and thank you, Chair Chavez, Vice Chair Stevenson, and committee members. My name is Rachel Sayer, and I am Mayor Frey's nominee to continue as the Emergency Management Director for the City of Minneapolis. In preparing for today, I looked back at what I told you in September 2024, when I came before you as the mayor's nominee for this role. I spoke to you then about my experience leading humanitarian responses for the US government in Yemen, Ukraine, and Haiti, and the Ebola outbreak in 2014. I spoke to you about the importance of the National Incident Management System, and my focus on the most affected people throughout my career. I told you how I lead in crisis, with clear objectives for the team, communication to leadership about what's needed, and how I work with colleagues to ensure an alignment of messaging. I told you I'd done this consistently, from conflict zones to hurricanes, and I told you I was excited about the chance to continue making Minneapolis a leader, not just in the state, but in the country, when it comes to preparedness. Unfortunately, over the last 21 months since I joined the city in this role, we've experienced several large-scale emergencies. I've led the team through crisis, and I know the systems that we put in place leading up to those responses played a key role in saving lives and responding to the communities needs. More specifically, my department was activated several during several unthinkable large-scale emergencies, including the response to the tragedy on August 27th at Annunciation Church and the response to operation Metro surge more recently. Through both responses, I kept an unwavering focus on the impact to our community, leading our emergency operations center team to stand up and operate family, neighborhood, and virtual assistance centers, all to connect our community members to the services needed most in the hardest of times. I led coordination with foundations to help encourage the flow of financial assistance, and I led our team to develop impact assessments to articulate the scope of disaster and advocate for financial help. Over the last few months, emergency managers from jurisdictions around the country have reached out to learn what we did and how we did it. We've already become a leader in responding and preparing for the impossible. Despite the high-profile nature of these responses, some of the most important work that my team does is what we do every day. We engage with the community and colleagues across departments to make sure we're as prepared as possible. Since I joined the city, I have worked across the city government to clarify roles and responsibilities in disaster response, such as the training we did last year for city council. We have continued to hold department-wide trainings and exercises. We have worked with our amazing communications colleagues to bolster messaging to our communities. We have revamped Ready Camp, our family preparedness course, to make it more accessible and to reach communities who have been historically marginalized in disaster preparedness. We have continued to learn and adjust every step of the way. I've done this all while leading with intention, both during emergencies and normal times, grounding my team and emergency operations center responses in a professional, respectful, and inclusive environment that is focused on why we are here, and that's to serve our community. Because our community deserves the best, and that includes a nation-leading preparedness model. Over the next 4 years, my goal is to make Minneapolis the most disaster-ready city in the country. Being disaster-ready means that everyone in our community knows where to go when disaster hits. It means that all of our collective layers of response organizations are connected, so we know who can respond fastest and where the gaps are. It means we have a trauma-informed response based on verified needs and focused on the most vulnerable. It means that we all practice together, because when we practice together, we take the teeth of a disaster out. We know what to expect, and we know we're in it together. Making Minneapolis the most disaster-ready city in the country is ambitious, but I also believe it's achievable, and that's because of who we are, how we care for each other, and the incredible energy around service that already exists in our community. I wish I could tell you that there will be no next big one, but one of the things you hopefully know about me by now is that I don't shy away from talking about risks and hazards. I will always tell you honestly what we're up against. I can't tell you if it will be a tornado or a cyber attack or something with an impossibly small chance of happening here in our city, but there will be a next big one. The most important thing we can do now is accept that as a reality and do everything we can in our control to be ready for it. I have a deep love for our community here in Minneapolis. As a resident myself, I've seen firsthand how our work improves lives and helps prepare our community members for their worst days. I've been honored to lead the incredible team in emergency management, and I would be honored to continue in this role. Thank you for your consideration for my nomination, and I'm happy to stand for any questions. >> Thank you. Colleagues, I will make a motion to approve Mayor Frey's nomination of Director Sawyer. >> Second. >> I'm proud to support this nomination because of your work, Director. The work that you have done for our city, the passion that you have for the city, and not only the work that you do to lead this department, but the work that you do with the employees resource groups like SOJI. So, not only have I seen you take on this important role to not only protect our residents of the city, but I've seen you um go overboard in protecting our employee resource groups, which is something that is really important in times like today. So, just wanted to thank you for your work. I look forward to seeing your continued work in this city uh because I know you'll do great. So, I'm speaking in support. Uh next up, we have Council Member Vita. >> Thank you, Chair Chavez. And like um Chair Chavez said, this vote in favor of you is probably the easiest vote I'm taking this year. It's been a tough year, but it it's so fulfilling to have votes like this. A vote of confidence, a vote of partnership, one that um you know, you just you can't even make up something, you know, you you like to balance things out. What are the pros and cons? And there are no cons here with you. I mean, I truly mean this is the easiest vote for me to take this year. I I look forward to continuing to work with you. I'm sure I told you in our um one-on-one that uh emergency management is so serious, but you make it so fun and so important, and you're very serious, and yet you're so light-hearted and caring, and we see that. We know how important this work is to you. You make it even more important to us, and so thank you. I look forward to the continued work with you. I do have a couple questions, and um I I I do. I really I really want to learn more, and I really want our city to learn more. And and we've agreed that that is that is upcoming. And so, just you know, the first thing I wanted to talk about is how your department ensures that emergency planning and response efforts adequately reach communities that have been um historically disproportionate disproportionately impacted by emergencies, including North Minneapolis. You know, we talked about the um tornado that was many many years ago, but we're still impacted by that. And so, I'm just wondering like what Yeah, that's the question. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Uh through the chair, Council Member Vita, my department is absolutely committing uh committed to uh ensuring that we reach historically marginalized communities and recognizing the long tail of disasters that have occurred in our city. Um one of my team members, who's incredible, who is here today, has really led the charge in ensuring that our outreach to communities is grounded in our um our communities here who have been historically marginalized. So, we're making sure that we go to the summer events where we're going to reach our communities who need us most this summer and talk about emergency preparedness. Recently, um his incredible work revamping our family preparedness course led him to do a course with a group called the Father Project in South Minneapolis. Um it was a uh class and gathering of mostly men of color. Um he reported the the session was really just an incredible uh community coming together and talking about preparedness among group who have not historically been a part of preparedness. So, absolutely we're going to continue doing that. Another example is the resilience hub project in North Minneapolis, the various ones in South Minneapolis. We are already uh convening monthly coordination meetings to really work towards that vision of a disaster-prepared city. >> Thank you. Um community trust and communication is extremely important. I know you know that and residents often judge our our emergency response by how quickly and clearly they receive information. What steps has your department taken to improve public communication during emergencies and what additional improvements would you prioritize? >> Thank you. Through the chair, Council member Vita. So, we have implemented quite a few processes processes during the last few years. One of which we have connected National Weather Service alerts directly into our city's emergency alert system. So, any resident is welcome to sign up and we encourage you to sign up for emergency alert system that will push to your phone when there are things like severe weather is incoming and that's really key to help you prepare in those moments. The other thing that I have done is work very closely with our communications department colleagues to bolster the expectations around communications during an emergency. That has included trainings with colleagues like you, with colleagues around the city and then just passing consistent information so that our our JIC, our joint information center during emergency is giving you daily messages as Council members to pass out to your constituents. >> Thank you. And then my last question is what do you see as the biggest threat to Minneapolis right now? Or upcoming in this term? >> Thank you. Through the chair, Council member Vita. I am watching the election like many emergency managers around the country. Elections are always a special time of special concerns. So, we are certainly watching that and working with the state on preparedness, typical preparedness actions. Otherwise, our largest hazards for the city are always severe weather. So, this season it's severe wind, hail, tornadoes actually less so, and then cyber attacks. Um those are always going to be some of our largest most likely, but doesn't mean they're next threats. >> Thank you. That's it. >> Council President Payne. >> Uh thank you, Chair Chavez, and thank you, Director. Um very happy to speak in support of you. You've been a real partner, I feel like uh for us on this body and for the whole city, and um it may sound aspirational to be the most, you know, prepared city for disaster in the nation, but I think we've already have a strong foundation there. Much of that foundation was built by community, right? Um I cannot separate out the community's response to Metro Surge and how government actually failed the community in the response to the murder of George Floyd. We've built a lot of that infrastructure as a community-first infrastructure, and I feel like you've really recognized that and have plugged into it, and I think it's that whole-city response that's going to make us the the best prepared city in the nation, and that means both government and community. And so, I know that you have that lens, and I'm I'm looking forward to partnering with you on developing that. So, thank you. >> Council Member Rainville. >> Uh thank you, uh Mr. Chair. I just wanted to compliment you on two things that I I feel you've done very, very well. One is uh the report on the financial damage from the ice invasion, uh the fact that we sustained $700 million in damages. That's a real eye-opener, so thank you for uh submitting that and and working very hard on that. And also, I have to uh smile a little bit about the cost-effectiveness of your department. Uh when we analyze uh using a certain set of metrics, anyway, uh you are the most cost-effective uh bang for the buck of all all the city staff. So, thank you for leading that effort. >> All right. Seeing no further discussion or questions from our colleagues on the motion to approve this item, all those in favor say I. I. Those opposed say nay. Any abstentions? The eyes have it and that motion carries. Thank you, Director. Uh our next item is a public hearing on adult bathhouses. And I will ask Council President Payne to kick us off on this item. >> Thank you, Chair Chávez. Uh we've got staff coming up to pull up our presentation, but while while he does that, um I'll just kind of give a little bit of uh background. Um this is work that predates my time in office. This is work that's been led by community. And in my first term in office, I partnered with uh my predecessor, Council President Andrea Jenkins, uh to do some technical amendments around some really stigmatizing language that existed in our ordinance. Um at that time, we wanted to achieve what we're aiming to achieve today, but uh the institution wasn't ready to move at that speed. And I'm really proud to be a continued part of this process that um is ongoing. And today is again another technical amendment uh to uh set the foundation so that we can now recognize uh bathhouses as the uh culturally significant part of our community that it is. Um and that previous work that we did was very limited. It all it did was remove stigmatizing language, uh stigmatizing language associated with AIDS, sexual activity, particularly between men, um, and stigmatizing language uh for sex workers. It was really unconscionable, frankly, that the government would adopt such language and such hostile language. Now, today we have a much stronger foundation and knowledge of the best interventions for public health, and we know that, um, a safer space for some of this activity is good public health. And so, today we are doing again more technical foundational work so that we can make this a reality by moving some things around in the code, um, and get us on that pathway towards, uh, uh, fully realizing the vision of the community. Uh, and with that, uh, we can go to the next slide. >> Before we get into the technical amendment, I think it is important to speak about the historical background when it comes to bathhouses. Pre-ban, bathhouses were gathering spaces more mostly for LGBTQIA+ folks, and then several raids occurred unprompted. In June 1979, the MPD's vice squad and deputy mayor drunkenly entered a bathhouse in downtown Minneapolis and were harassing men, vowing to come back to shut down what they called, quote, "whorehouse for men." It was also at a time when the Minneapolis City Council appro- opposed a pride block party as well. >> [sighs] >> In December 1979, the largest raid on adult bathhouses in US history occurred here in Minneapolis, where two undercover MPD officers in towels began grabbing men, arresting, uh, many of them. 125 and 125 were ticketed, and nine were charged with felony crimes of sodomy. And until 2001, same-sex sexual activity between consenting men was illegal in Minnesota. And we know that these raids were carried out with the explicit goal of criminalizing residents simply for being gay. In 1978, there was a ban on high-risk sexual behavior, despite research indicating that closing bathhouses had no effect in slowing HIV transmission. The health commissioner at the time researched the effectiveness of closing the bathhouses in other cities and told city council that it resulted no change to HIV transmission. People would continue engaging in sexual activity elsewhere. And in 1988, bathhouses were formally banned in Minneapolis. We know that other cities have revisited their bans and reversed them with strong public health protections, for example, San Francisco. And we know that peer-reviewed research and several clinical trials clinic trials have found that the bathhouse closures would likely lead to a small increase in HIV transmission. It's Council President Bender, but yeah. But you kind of talked about it already. >> Yeah. So, as I said, we had removed some stigmatizing language, but the community was demanding a full repeal of this ban, and this institution wasn't ready to move at that speed. We are ready to move at that speed right now. Um, and so um, the work that we are doing today is delineating city codes that are needed to be amended to create a regulation around um, adult bathhouses and sex venues. Uh, we have um, outlined a landscape analysis of other US cities that have a framework to regulate adult bathhouses and sex venues. So, for instance, Chicago, San Francisco, Duluth, and Dallas all have these types of venues. Uh, and then the major takeaway here is that uh, is it's been an iterative process over the last 3 years, and it's 3 years in the making. And we're advancing these amendments in alignment with recommendations provided by the 2024 report when we had our professional staff research this. >> So, it's important for us to talk about what this does and what this does not do. To start off, what this does do is that it it removes outdated and stigmatizing language that has been used to target and criminalize the LGBTQIA+ community in the Minneapolis code. It moves the building standards and definitions developed for adult entertainment venues from the high-risk sexual conduct ordinance into the into the place of adult entertainment code. It maintains protections for employees of adult entertainment venues. It maintains the full authority of the health department to enforce all existing health codes. And it creates a pathway for regulation and legalization of adult bathhouses / sex venues upon development of a business license code, eliminating barriers and removing contradictions. What this does not do is it will not open up bathhouses suddenly tomorrow. This is really technical in nature. This is moving things around in our laws. And this is setting us up for future work with the health department, with the legal department, with all sorts of folks in the future as we're on a um a pathway or on a road to creating a regulatory framework for bathhouses. But what we're doing today is really removing outdated language, stigmatizing language, and shifting things around in our code. And so it's very very technical in nature and is not going to open up bathhouses right away. >> This amendment helps address historic harm and discrimination. And as my colleague said, while the passage of this does not legalize bathhouses, it does create a future pathway to a public health response to as opposed to the criminalization of bathhouses. It removes outdated language used to criminalize predominantly 2S LGBTQI+ community. It advances the work of removing fear, stigma, and shame for our communities in our city, including our 2S LGBTQI community. It allows for the development in the future of a public health and sexual health education access within historically communities, and it aligns with Fast-Track Initiative goals meant to end the local HIV and AIDS epidemic. And with that, um I will now open the public hearing, and the first person to speak on this item is Stacy. Welcome. >> Thank you very much for having this public hearing. I'm Stacy Gray, and chairman Ward 9 Cork and resident. Grateful to be represented by Council Member Jason Chavez. As a gay man, he's one of the people leading this effort along with our uh 2S LGBTQI+ community. For those who are not familiar, I highly recommend the excellent uh two-page document uh fact sheet, "Adult Bathhouses and Sex Venues Amendments Frequently Asked Questions". It can be found on the city's [clears throat] LIMBS page website, and more than one city council has linked it in their their e-newsletters, including Council Member Soren Stevenson, where I first saw it. So, thank you. The fact document provides the historical background of bathhouses closures that started in the 1980s in Minneapolis and around the country. As someone who is now 69 years old, I was living in Oakland, California at this time. I remember it very well. I still remember with great sadness the loss of so many friends, neighbors, and colleagues to AIDS in that epidemic. I still have great anger at the way the community so unbelievably ravaged by the rampant AIDS epidemic was so maligned. As the fact sheet points out, uh there was recklessly slandered the community was recklessly slandered for quote high-risk sexual behavior despite evidence at that time that it did not the closing of bathhouses did not have an effect on HIV transmission. The fact sheet also notes the Minneapolis reopening effort is being community-led by the Safer Sex Spaces Coalition, which is debunking, according to the fact sheet, quote stigma-based barriers with data-driven frameworks that prioritize safety, autonomy, and joy. And amplifying unrepresented voices and working together to write policies that reflect the health and freedom of our neighbors. Amen. Just one sentence to finish up. There's nothing that prohibits passing the bathhouse ordinances, so the city can work with the coalition. >> Thank you, Stacy. >> I also just want to say thank you for the closed captioning. This is the first time I've been in this chamber where uh the video has it. >> Yeah. >> With somebody with a disability, you're telling me I'm welcome. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next up is Araceli. >> Good afternoon, and thank you for your time today. I wanted to especially thank Chair Chavez. You said yesterday that you were the only openly gay person on this council, but I hope this crowd and testimony today shows that you are far from alone in this work. I speak for many folks when I say your community sees you and thanks you. My name is Ed Sola. I use she/her pronouns and I'm a proud resident of Ward 10. I am a teacher and a volunteer advocate. While I found a safe haven and a home I am proud of in beautiful Uptown Minneapolis, we have so much work to do in ensuring our queer residents, especially those living in poverty, have safe access to support, health care, and harm reduction resources. Even as we restlessly build our support networks and raise our voices at the ballot box, we have we face misinformation and bigotry despite the science. I refer, of course, to the abundance of literature that shows that bathhouses and other queer havens serve as community spaces, education, and harm reduction resources um and harm reduction resources. Still, the 1988 ban eliminated commercial safe spaces, created obstacles to providing contemporary public health strategies, and discouraged outreach to affected communities. Counterproductively, it was it drove sexual-related gatherings underground, often to unsafe and inaccessible spaces. Most damning of this ban, public health organizations and even the Minneapolis Public Health Department acknowledged that the ordinance is no longer a tool needed to promote public health. This bathhouse house ordinance is a small step towards addressing injustice and serve in better serving our queer community. Um in supportive of the repeal of this homophobic ban on safe space sex spaces, you stand with the science and with our queer community. Thank you again. >> Next up, we have number three, D. >> Hello, my name is D and I live in Ward 9. Thank you, Chair Chavez and council members for opening up this public hearing. I'm a volunteer advocate and I organize with a collective of people engaged in sex trades. I've devoted the last 7 years of my life to sex worker and survivor rights and safety. I want to clear up any confusion to the council and to the public about bathhouses being synonymous with brothels. Prostitution is illegal in the state of Minnesota and repealing the bathhouse ban doesn't change that. This has nothing to do with expanding access or safety to sex work. In all my years of solidarity with people with lived experience in the sex trades, bathhouses have never been a part of this community's demands. Both criminalization and legal regulation of sex work are two dangerous approaches for people engaged in sex trades. We would never advocate for brothels and it's important that people know bathhouses are not brothels. This work is important because it involves protecting and resourcing the community in sexual autonomy, safer sex, and sexual health, which will always be priorities for the sex working community. We are extremely proud to be in support of this campaign and feel that the anti-sex and whore-phobic rhetoric surrounding bathhouses have been misplaced as a focus in the public discourse. I find it all incredibly insulting. Banning bathhouses is no longer a successful tool in protecting community health. People who live in and visit Minneapolis deserve safe safe spaces like this and I support the work of creating pathways for both bathhouses that expand access to care and inclusivity to marginalized people. I want to thank the staff from offices of council members Payne, Chavis, and Chaundry for taking time to meet with workers impacted by the changes to the adult entertainment ordinance as this work unfolds. It means a lot to include impacted community members and to take our voices seriously. I hope that listening to marginalized workers remains a priority for this council body. Thank you. >> Next up we have Sarah Mitson, number four, then number five will be Grace, number six will be Reese Gray. >> Hi, my name is Sarah Mitson. I spend most of my time in South Minneapolis. Unlike my previous speakers, this is my first rodeo and I'm not really an advocate. but am just a community member. I am a queer community member and I would like to let you know I appreciate that the city council is trying to remove this negative language and I appreciate that minority groups, including me, that face injustice are getting a chance to be on an even playing field and have a safe space for the rest of us. And I really thank you and I hope you really consider that it's not just the advocates, but regular community members that would appreciate and benefit from this change in language. Thank you. >> Number five, Grace. >> [snorts] >> Oh, hello and thank you all. Uh, my name is Grace. Uh, very trans, very queer and I'm a organizer of many grassroots, many kinds within the community, particularly intimate safe spaces for trans people very specifically. Now, discriminatory laws, when left on books, they only serve to harm and stigmatize. Our community is one consistently pushed to the fringes even to this day, uh, stigmatized even throughout our own communities. Uh, we have a need for safe spaces and education. Trans people are one of the fastest growing vulnerable demographics in our state. Whether you know it or not, a lot of us keep coming cuz everyone else keeps passing laws against us. It'd be nice to have less laws against us here. That is for certain. Because what does sanctuary mean when there are discriminatory laws still left on the books? What does sanctuary mean when our community is still forced to meet in secrecy for our own safety. What does sanctuary even mean when it's still dangerous for us to hold vigils in public because of the death threats we get mourning our own dead? Gay pride is a party, but trans pride is a resource fair. It's survival. Events I've organized uh we've had sex education, HIV prevention, and safer sex resources, HRT needle exchange, live entertainment, and so much more. We deserve places to commit our connect and love on each other in the ways that we want to. The ways our love should not be turned on legislation by other people telling us what is right and what is wrong for our communities because our communities, historically, we bury our dead in the morning, we protest during the day, and we dance all night. We dance because that is what keeps us alive. We fight for that dance. And I just want to say that uh >> Thank you. >> We want to dance in the sunlight, too. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh next up we have number six. Reese Number six, Reese Gray. >> Oh, hi. >> Good afternoon, council members. My name is Reese Gray. I'm a queer trans man living and working in beautiful Ward eight. Um I am very lucky to live my life within communities that more often than not value my personhood and well-being. This has not always been the case. Uh when I was young, um much more vulnerable, and uninformed, I spent time in private underground sexual spaces across Minneapolis and the metro area. Let me be clear, I do not believe those spaces are inherently bad or wrong. Sometimes I was met with respect, compassion, and support. However, at other times I was met with dangerous misinformation, harm, and even outright violation and abuse. It is my belief that had a public community venue like a bathhouse been available, things would have been different for me as I explored my identity and sexuality. I spent years taking on unnecessary risk because I believed the misinformation provided to me in these spaces that PrEP, a highly effective HIV preventative, was not for people with bodies like mine having the interactions I was having. In a public venue equipped with sexual health resources, I could have been educated on and connected to PrEP when I arguably needed it the most. I grinned and bared it through abusive relationships and egregious consent violations because in underground spaces, whoever has the house or the connection or the clout has the power. It should not have been like that. In a public venue, clear standards of behavior and boundaries can be established and upheld with a higher level of equity and consistency. Communal sexual spaces have always existed and always will. Repealing the Minneapolis bathhouse ban is an overdue step towards making them as safe and equitable as possible. Thank you for your time. >> Next, uh we have Elizabeth Scott, then which will be number seven. Number eight will be James Houston. Number nine will be Lee. Number nine Number 10, Jay. >> Good afternoon. My name is Elizabeth Scott and I've lived in Minneapolis for 25 years. I currently live in Ward 11. I hold master's degrees in social work and public health and I'm also a member of the queer community. I care about repealing the bathhouse ban for both both personal and professional reasons. Bathhouses and adult venues might seem like a fringe issue to some folks, but they have long served as important community spaces, especially within the queer community. Like bars or breweries, they provide social connections and can operate safely and responsibly when licensed and regulated, and also generate income for our city. I can say this with authority because I love bathhouses. I've visited legal adult venues in other major cities, most recently in Toronto. The space was clean, professionally run, safe, and welcoming. Condoms and safer sex information was available. Surfaces were regularly sanitized, and staff were clearly trained in safety and consent practices. As a woman uh being there solo, I felt totally safe and comfortable. >> [gasps] >> The reality is these gatherings already happen in Minneapolis, as many have said. They're often in unregulated settings with varying degrees of safety and cleanliness. Adults are going to meet other adults, often through apps or informal spaces that may place people at greater risk. In my experience and opinion, legal legal regulated venues provide a safer alternative for many of us. Cities like Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Miami, and San Francisco already allow these spaces. And repealing this ban would support harm reduction, public health, personal freedom, and safe community spaces for the queer community and residents of our city and other consenting adults. Thank you. >> Welcome. Uh Council President I just started. >> [laughter] >> Um uh Council President Payne, uh Chair Chavez, and Vice Chair Stevenson, Councilman Whiting. Uh I'm James Houston, Ward 11. Um and I've been a Minneapolis resident for 15 years and a sexuality educator for 20. Um, during that time, uh I've been a community organizer, sex educator, and in my role in those in those roles, uh I've had the opportunity to visit to visit sexuality spaces in Seattle, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Denver, Atlanta, Boston, DC, Columbus, and St. Louis. Not all of them are bathhouses, but they're all sexuality spaces. Uh and in each of these cities I saw the same story, social groups centered around a shared community hub in vibrant engaged neighborhoods like the Castro, Boystown, and Greenwich Village. Uh in [snorts] these spaces, membership comes with a sense of belonging, ownership, and pride, uh which in turn fosters mutual care, trust, and community standards that protect the people who participate. Can we have [snorts] the same opportunities in Minneapolis? Um, I've helped fundraise for The Aliveness Project uh and our family proudly supports uh the mission [snorts] of Family Tree Clinic. Um, I remember I remember the Smitten Kitten's tiny storefront in South Minneapolis next to the Chatterbox. Um, from there, uh in their over 20 years of business, they've done amazing things to um to support sexuality education and made national news for their mutual aid work this winter. Uh I [snorts] want to extend that sense of community responsibility beyond establishments where we're just customers and patients. >> [snorts] >> For me, finding my people in the Twin Cities led to friendships, family, and roots in a progressive city where community means care, belonging, and survival. Uh [snorts] Council members Payne, Chavez, Stevenson, Wansley, Palmisano, and Chughtai authored this bill. I hope that um [snorts] I I hope that the rest of you will join them, uh attend the meeting on June 26th, and vote for your constituents to continue laying the foundation to end the ban. End the ban. Uh [snorts] we showed up this winter for Payne. Show up for joy, too. Thank you. >> Next, up, have a number nine, Lee. Number 10, Jay. Number uh 11, Noah. And number 12, Dylan. >> Yeah, Chair Chavez, members of the committee. This step to repealing the bathhouse moratorium is about equity and updating city policy to reflect that we now have advances in public health that did not exist back in 1988 like PrEP. And I've only ever visited uh two different bathhouses one time each, but from what I observed, I have no doubt that they would encourage public health outreach here. And as a board member of Stonewall DFL, I fully admit to wanting to bring this question uh on this topic up in candidate screenings, but I was concerned about how I might be perceived. And a vote to overturn the ban would heal that sense of stigma. A vote to keep the ban in place feels misguided with the reassuring words in the city's stated goals. And I heard uh bringing uh jobs, new businesses, new investment, and building up the downtown tax base is uh uh B U's as overriding priorities in the data center hearing that I spoke in yesterday. So, I'm curious like how those same economic development promises would not carry over when it comes to new bathhouses, particularly when it would also boost tourism in Minneapolis. And as far as the perceived risk, the same activities will still take place under the moratorium in underground bacchanalias that are often unsafe and or inaccessible. And uh my friend and I refused to uh take part in free-for-alls where there no written guidelines of conduct that participants have to acknowledge. And as a queer person on the autism spectrum, it is um often hard for us to navigate spaces that are full of hidden rules that everyone is just expected to grasp. Including on the apps and uh many of the gay bars are not autism-friendly because it's hard to talk over constant pulsating music. Everywhere I go, and having a bathhouse would be less sensory overload, and and that's that's why this is about equity rather than just token equality. And to conclude, having a bathhouse would help anchor the social ethos of we're all in in this together rather than the we're all on your own ethos of Thank you, Lee. Appreciate you. Next up, we have Jay, number 10. Noah, number 11. 12, Dylan. 13, Shawn. Hi, good afternoon. I'm Dr. Jay Orn. I own a home in Ward 9. I'm a research scientist with a PhD in sociology specializing in sexual health and sexual spaces, and I lead the Livness Project's HIV prevention department. For 40 years, we have led the way serving people living with and at risk for HIV. So, I'm here today in support of the proposed ordinance. As an expert in HIV prevention, I can say that this policy change will strengthen our public health system. Public health has evolved dramatically since the original bathhouse bans, which were issued in raids, fear, and shame around HIV. Together with new strategies like PrEP and U = U, we have the tools to reduce HIV transmission. And so, our task is not to eliminate spaces where people have sex, but to bring people out of the shadows where we can give them the tools that we that we have in place. Research has shown that pushing sexual activity into less visible spaces does not eliminate the risk. It makes outreach and education more difficult. Licensed venues can become our partners in public health. Other cities have led the way in this direction. We are not breaking ground here. We're trying to catch up with what other places are already doing in this area. On a personal note, I'll also say I also don't think it's the role of government to sit in judgement and decide what kind of spaces can be important to different cultural groups. Bathhouses are are an important part of queer history and our current community and as a body largely composed of non-LGBTQ people, I hope you'll defer to the will of the queer community that these are important spaces to our community um and so thank you Council Member Chavez and the rest of the co-authors. Please pass this ordinance. >> Next up, Noah. And then we have Dylan, then Shawn. >> Good afternoon, committee members. My name is Noah Barth. I live in Kingfield and I'm a queer public historian. Some council members have asked why care about or spend time and money on this now. As a historian who has written about bathhouses, HIV/AIDS, and yes, Brian Coyle, including as the developer of the 2023 exhibit at Mill City Museum about LGBTQ nightlife, I particularly feel equipped to tell you why. In 1988, people living with AIDS, as Brian Coyle was, were also living without answers. Council Member Coyle's decision to support this ordinance was one made with fear and while I can empathize, today we need to make our decisions with facts. It is a fact that this ordinance is discriminatory and did not prevent HIV infections and using a decades-old opinion of one gay person to dispute a broad coalition of queer people here today is tokenization. Brian Coyle loved his community and he wanted us to have sexual freedom, but he knew that taking away these spaces would make us less safe and they did. Had he been here had he been able at the time, he would have preserved them. So you ask, "Why now?" Because a grassroots group of constituents guided by history have come together and said, "We will be healthier and safer if we have access to these spaces." Because with the tools against HIV we have now, Brian Coyle would have listened to us. Because now we have facts, not fear. Why now, you ask? Because we are 38 years overdue. Because this ordinance never should have passed, and it's time to undo a historical injustice. Thank you. >> Dylan, number 12. >> Good afternoon, council members. My name is Dylan Boyer. I'm a proud Ward 8 resident. I'm a person living with HIV. I'm the director of development at The Aliveness Project, and I'm a leader of the Safer Sex Space Coalition. I want to start off by saying something that might surprise some people, that my first experience at a bathhouse was not for sex. It was to get tested for HIV. I went because I knew that it was a place where queer people felt safe. For many people, these of venues are not just social spaces, but they are public health spaces. They are places where people can access HIV testing, education, condoms, and prevention. Over the past 2 weeks, I have had the privilege to bring panels of the AIDS quilt to Minneapolis. This quilt reminds us of what happens when government officials fail to listen to their community members. It reminds us that of the cost of fear-based policies that push people into the shadows rather than supporting them. The research is clear and consistently shows that bathhouses can play an important role in promoting safer sex and supporting HIV prevention. In a recent MPR article, Council Member Scheffer stated that these proposals are, quote, "disconnected from the reality of everyday residents and people trying to do business in our city. I respectfully reject that statement. We are everyday residents. And my business is making sure that queer people have access to health care. My business is helping people get tested for HIV. My business is connecting people to treatment and prevention services. And my business is helping us end HIV in Minnesota. And I would hope that is the business of this council, especially representatives of some of the queerest wards in Minneapolis, to reduce HIV infections and ensure that LGBTQ+ residents have access to community that they deserve. I urge you all to support this ordinance. Thank you for your time today. >> Next up we have Shawn, number 13. Number 14 is I'm Shawn I should read the the way it's written, but I think Chandler, maybe. And then number uh Next person will be Kat. >> Yeah. >> Hello council members, my name is Shawn. I am a proud resident of Ward 12, and I have want to continue the conversation that we're having here today about the removal of the ordinance and working to change that today with our bathhouse changes. Um as people have brought up many times today, the reason we had this ordinance was because of fear of an epidemic. Um I don't know a single person who lives in our city, our state, or our country that does not understand what fear of an epidemic looks like. And the decisions we make during those times when we are most afraid. We can fight those things when we're afraid, when we have more knowledge and understanding as we all understand, as we all have seen. We have more knowledge now than we had back then in the '80s. We have more knowledge now to protect ourselves and to not understand how to make better changes for ourselves and the community as large. I'd also like to point out that our need mostly for these sorts of things is about community and coming together. and though that might be something that people might feel is strange or different or not understand as part of people outside of the LGBTQ community, these things are important to us and they're different and there is more so need for anything right now in this world, in this country than community and those things come together. Uh I have had some experience much like the other people who are speaking today of bath houses and I'm not exactly a beauty, so I get to see things that most people don't and that is community and people coming together. I've seen young people meeting and talking in Dallas in a place where people are not safe. I've seen people sharing their time and friendship all over this country and all over this world in those places and that's something that we desperately need here and I think would be very important to our city and our community at large to build that up. So I ask you um to vote to change our ordinance as it is and I thank you for your time. >> Number 14, Chandler. >> Good afternoon. Thank you for having me. My name is Chandler Daily and I'm a gay trans man and I work for a sexual and reproductive health clinic providing sexual health education. In my perspectives as a gay trans person, bathhouses and commercial sex spaces are so special. They're places that are centered on connection. That's the point of them. Um they're spaces of deep care between strangers. They're spaces uh that make our people less alone. They're healing, resourcing spaces. And if you see this issue as fringe or irrelevant, um then what that just tells me is that you don't know us very well um and that maybe you know us on the surface or us on TV, but you haven't engaged deeply with the our history as LGBT people and the important contributions of LGBT sexual culture to our world. Maybe you weren't close enough to see all of us. In the words of George Michael, this is my culture. We're here to introduce ourselves. Um and having uh a city that uh would be open to opening a bathhouse is a is a part of just being a basically LGBT welcoming city. Um it's again not unique, but what it means to be LGBT friendly. Um What uh as a as a sex educator, what I know you also know and what all these other people have said. Banning bathhouses didn't end HIV. It didn't make our community less vulnerable to other emergent STIs. It came from a reactionary council that didn't have the thriving public health and HIV prevention infrastructure or knowledge of 2026. We know how to keep each other's healthy and safe and it's by bringing people together. It's by providing all the things that are provided in bathhouses. It's with rapid testing and prep and pep and doxy prep and harm reduction and supplies and free condoms and lube and education. Thank you. >> Thank you. Number 15 is no longer going to testify. So number 16, Kat. Number 17 is now testifying and then number 18 I think is Amber O'Neal. >> Thank you so much. Glad to be here. My name is Kat Rone. I use they and she pronouns. I'm the executive director of OutFront Minnesota, our state's largest LGBTQ advocacy organization. We were founded in 1987 at really the height of the peak of the HIV crisis here in the United States. Um and in large part because our communities needed voices at tables of power. We needed voices to inform public health decision-making to ensure that our communities would be met with support and care and resources and competency when we stepped into spaces of care. The bathhouse ban has been in existence for almost as long as our organization and when we ask the question of why now, the answer is why not now? Recently, I was at Andrea Jenkins retirement party and this is a project that has been carried not just by our organization, but by so many in our communities, so many leaders, so many voices, so many people from different segments of community who are asking for a simple thing to give more space to more of us. When MPX popped up in the United States, Minnesota organizations like OutFront Minnesota, The Aliveness Project and others got together to reach out to the state to say, "We want to be part of this public health response." We led that through engaging with our communities, through informing good strategies about how to document and track and trace and support care for folks and to make sure that folks could get vaccinated as quickly and as effectively as possible. Public health happens everywhere. It happens through community. It happens when people show up to spaces that they feel comfortable in. This is an opportunity to open those doors, to care for one another and to write a historic wrong. Thank you. >> Next up is number 17. It is no longer speaking. So, like I said, number 18 is Amber O'Neal, number 19 Patrick and then number 20 Ryan. >> Good afternoon Excuse Good [clears throat] afternoon, Council. My name is Patrick Scully. Laws passed that are anti-gay have a long tradition. 4,000 years ago, Leviticus proclaimed, "They shall be put to death." 250 years ago, each of the original 13 colonies had a death penalty for sodomy. Jefferson suggested Virginia soften the penalty to castration. As a 72-year-old gay man, I have lived most of my life criminalized and excluded by the system. Discrimination against me was legal until I was almost 40 years old in Minnesota. Sex was a crime in Minnesota until I was in my 50s. Marriage was not an option until I was in my 60s. So, don't expect me to live my life like you live your life if you're a heterosexual. You forced me to find other ways to live my life. After Brian Coyle marginal or >> [clears throat] >> After Brian Brian Coyle's misguided bathhouse ban, I organized the first safe sex parties that happened in Minnesota. And I'm proud to say that I did that. The gay community will survive without your support if you fail to pass this new law. We know how to create our community outside of the system, under the radar if need be. But, working with us is a better choice. You can vote to do that, or you can vote to keep us in the shadows. Thank you very much. >> Next up, we have Ryan Murphy. And then we'll have number 21, which will be A- Well, actually Amber. I don't think Amber spoke. Amber O'Neal, which was number 18. Yes. >> Hi. My name is uh Amber O'Neal. I'm uh from uh Ward 3 on Marcy Homes. Uh Rainville is my uh council member. Um I had a lot more to say about this personally, but uh after hearing everything, um all I really have to say that I feel is this this repeal is a bit remiss and uh myopic. And um I feel that if you raise a child and uh treat them well, raise them, you know, have the to have a healthy lifestyle, to uh eat well, exercise, you don't then on your on their 20th birthday encourage them to adopt the uh Morgan Spurlock diet. So, that's my piece. Thank you. >> Next up, we have number 20, Ryan. And then 21 will be AB, 22 Dustin. >> Hello everyone. My name is Ryan Murphy. I am a fourth generation Minneapolitan, a resident of Ward 7. I have a PhD in American Studies from the University of Minnesota, and I'm a professor of history. Um when I was a and other people have been talking about history in this room, too, but when I was in graduate school, I was part of a collective called the Twin Cities GLBT Oral History Project, and we made an edited volume about the queer history of the region. I What I think most about the repealing the ban is that this is a way for the city of Minneapolis to atone for past sins. We know in Minneapolis, we know what it feels like to be attacked from the outside because all of us have been through that this winter. That's what it felt like, I think, to queer people in the 1970s. I wasn't there, but I read all the testimony and all the documents that were, you know, part of the public dialogue in the 1970s during the bathhouse raids that people have already referenced here today. Um and you know, it is a deeply compelling topic and I think one of the most striking things that I read was the testimony from the bouncers at the Gay 90s who would watch the fire department staging area next in the parking lot next to the 90s. This group of young men would beat people coming out of the 90s. The fire department would laugh and just it was sort of the entertainment for the night. It's a different time now, but it's time that we update, you know, that's not the way the fire department would behave today, I hope. But, it's time to make the laws consistent with the growth that other people have done in this community. So, I strongly urge us to repeal the ban. Thank you. >> Number 21, AB. 22, Dustin. 23, Kat. >> All right. Hi everyone. I'm AB. I'm a resident of Ward 10 and I'm a congregant of the First Universalist Church of Minneapolis. Uh just a few things I wanted to say that this would be an opportunity to improve the local economy versus a via the promotion of nightlife and that the increase of tourism and other ancillary spending associated with those things. And I know we're all in need of new tax revenue for the city and I feel like it's important to allow people to do what they want and if that gets us more tax revenue, that's great. Also, in a world where personal liberty is just constantly being curtailed, you have a unique opportunity to buck this trend and give autonomy that would otherwise require long trips to other cities. It's also worth mentioning that in a world growing increasingly hostile to LGBT people, so much so that we have refugees flooding into Minneapolis, we need resources and joy. I understand that certain individuals struggle with this topic, and to those people, I would like to remind you that participation in these spaces is entirely optional. I would also like to ask that to consider the types of organizations and venues that would have these sorts of events and spaces, and that you try and make regulations that are not overly onerous. Thank you very much. >> Number Yes, welcome, Dustin. >> Hello, my name is Dustin Barnes, and I live in Ward 4. I'm here today to support repealing the bathhouse ban in Minneapolis. For 15 years, I worked in tourism. 10 years on cruise ships from Royal Caribbean to Celebrity, Princess, and Disney. I lived in Costa Rica for 3 years, managing the English department at a culinary arts college, and I spent 2 years as an event director helping Fortune 500 companies run their corporate trips around the world. To put it lightly, tourism is in my blood. In all my travels, guests would ask me, "Where is the nearest bathhouse?" So, I know that firsthand that people seek out these establishments. It was a shock to me when I moved to Minneapolis 5 years ago that these types of entertainment and community facilities were not available here, and the nearest place to enjoy a bathhouse was either in Duluth or Chicago. Today, many people travel out of our city and spend their money in those places as they visit the bathhouses. Money we could keep here in our city. Bathhouses hold a long history in the queer community, but they're open to all. We all know that straight people love to enjoy the queer community. They love to copy our art, our culture, our fashion, our music, entertainment, and even our vocabulary. Our community is always in the forefront of trends and style, and our community needs safe spaces for us to connect and to be creative. Did you know that Bette Midler started her career in a bathhouse in New York City? Barry Manilow was her piano player. Bathhouses are a place for people to unwind, relax, and play. Consenting adults deserve a safe place to de-stress, and repealing the bathhouse ban will give them that. It will drive traffic to the city, boost out-of-state tourism, increase tax revenue, and offer opportunities for small businesses. Like they said in the movie Field of Dreams, if you build it, they will come. And trust me, they will come. In closing, as a gay black man, I heard white people tell me throughout many years of my life they knew what was best for the black community. Yesterday I witnessed straight council members tell the queer community they knew what was best for them. You do not live in our shoes, and you cannot queersplain to us. So please remove the bathhouse ban. >> Next up we have Gre- sorry, Cat number 23. Greg number 24, and then 25 is no longer speaking. >> Hello, my name is Cat Hammond. I'm a resident of Ward 1 and a sex educator in Minneapolis and community member. I want to thank the council members who have authored this this repeal and who are supporting the repeal or considering supporting it. I want to say we have your back should you face any pushback or should you be wondering what were all those beautiful diverse vibrant community members talking about in that meeting about all the economic and public health benefits. Call us up, you know where to find us. Um and we appreciate your support and consideration on this. Uh for anybody who uh is not familiar with bathhouses or hasn't spent a lot of time thinking about why this would matter, I would say I I hope that you can think of an area in your life that is a space or a group of people where you feel at ease and you feel like you can uh gather together uh with people who share a core experience with you and where you feel free to be yourself and and connect with people and experience the joy um that that brings. And if you have a space like that in your life, perhaps you can understand what this means uh to those of us who gather in adult spaces ranging from bars to parties to bathhouses and for whom that's such an important site of community. And the applause and uh all the love that's happening in the overflow room right now really speaks to that community for me. I wasn't expecting to see uh on my way in a bust, a beautiful statue of uh Council Um and I I took a moment to say hello to to Brian Coyle um on the way in. I know that that Councilmember Coyle supported this ban um in the context of the time that he lived and died and uh I wish that he were around today and I wish that I could talk to him. He'd be 80, I looked it up and um I wish I could tell him about the effective treatment for HIV that we have now. Um I wish I could talk to him about where he found community and what that community meant to him and I won't get to meet uh Brian Coyle but uh perhaps I can meet somebody like him in uh a gathering space like a bathhouse. So, thank you so much. All right. uh we have Greg. >> Hello, I'm a Greg Lind, I'm a resident of Ward 8 and a graduate of the Minnesota University of Minnesota School of Public Health. Today I'm speaking in favor of the ordinance to amend Title 11. And I'd like to address particularly the council members who might be hesitant or fearful about supporting these changes as somehow being against their values. And I hope that everyone on this council and all of us here share some common values around personal freedom, around cultural expression and personal expression, and about building a vibrant and financially successful city. The amendment to Title 11 helps enable all three of those values. Um I personally hold the value that restrictions on freedom should only exist when they serve the common good or are necessary. The current restrictions on bathhouses do not serve the public good and are not effective. The current restrictions are also broad enough that they prohibit other cultural bathhouses and saunas and other businesses around this and create undue restrictions on those kinds of businesses to start. The proposed amendments are sufficient to safeguard public health. They're consistent with infectious disease science and practice. And they reserve sufficient power to the Commissioner of Health if anything changes around the circumstances uh you know around around health and and these. So I hope that the whole council will uh reach a consensus decision to amend Title 11. Thank you. >> Next up we have number 25, which is no longer speaking, so number 26, Hummingbird. And then we'll have Nikolai. >> Um hello council. Many of you know me as Hummingbird. I'm a proud IndigiQuare Ward 12 resident. I've come to speak in support of the ordinance. Throughout the AIDS crisis, our own government turned its back on much of our community and refused to treat our lives as worth protecting. It was our community that built the infrastructure to keep each other alive. Bathhouses were an essential part of that infrastructure. They were spaces where outreach workers could reach people directly, where safer sex education actually circulated peer-to-peer, and where public health information could move through a community that the broader medical establishment had abandoned. This was real effective public health work done by and for our community at a moment when almost no one else was doing it. And the response from city leadership and law enforcement was to shut those spaces down. Bathhouses were raided and closed. They were viewed as a threat to public health because they made our existence visible. They made our community, care, and sexuality visible. Homophobia looked to our communal areas as an easy target, and laws, criminalization, police exploited that. Those closures didn't make anyone safer. They were used as justification for criminalization and anti-gay violence. In my lifetime, I've seen the peak of the AIDS crisis and witnessed myriad public health advancements that have all but cured the epidemic entirely and have given us tools for safety where undetectable levels of the virus are untransmittable. Now, as we live through new public health concerns and crises with a federal government that has chosen a path of ignoring public health concerns almost altogether and dismantling the infrastructure almost altogether, we as a city have an opportunity to help my community support ourselves again. I urge the committee to vote in support of this ordinance. >> Welcome. Good afternoon, Council. My name is Nikolai Sellnow-Whitehead. I am a queer person, I'm a person living with HIV, and a person in recovery. My family has called the Minneapolis area home for 50 years, specifically in Ward 7. I understand why these restrictions were put in place. 40 years ago, our community was facing a devastating public health crisis. Countless queer people lost friends, they lost partners, loved ones during the HIV and AIDS epidemic. The fear and uncertainty of that time were very real. But, this is not 1985. Thanks to decades of medical advances, public health education, and the work of organizations like The Aliveness Project and like OutFront Minnesota, we are living in a very different reality today. Many people living with HIV, including myself, are undetectable, and we know from overwhelming scientific evidence that undetectable equals untransmittable. As a person in recovery, I've had the opportunity to live in both Washington, D.C. and New York City, where bathhouses operate legally. What I have found there was not a dangerous environment that you might imagine. I found community, I found connection, I found spaces where queer people could gather safely and without shame. Many modern bathhouses today operate in partnership with public health organizations. They provide STI education, offer testing resources like others have shared that they have utilized, and help people connect to healthcare and to community. Rather than increasing risk, these spaces serve as important points of engagement and of education for the queer community. Minneapolis has long prided itself on being a city that follows evidence, that values public health, and supports our LGBTQ brothers and sisters. I believe this policy reflects fears from a different era, rather than the realities of today. I respectfully urge you to repeal the bathhouse ban and allow our city to move forward with policies grounded in science, in public health, and in dignity. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Next up we have Dex, number 28. Number 29 won't speak, and then number 30 Ty. >> All right, hi. I'm Dex Anderson. Uh I am non-binary. I'm a resident of Ward 10. And I am missing the kickoff between England and Croatia to be here. So, that tells you how important this is. I was motivated to be here by some comments your fellow councilor Pearl Warren made yesterday about the concerns about disease within the bathhouses. We've had a number of medical advancements that are just stunning. I was born in 1986. I'm 40 years old. And when I was born, that was the year that HIV was determined to be the cause of AIDS. And since then, we have made it so that somebody who gets diagnosed with HIV can live a long and healthy life. And there are a bunch of pre-exposure prophylaxis that prevent the transmission. As well as when you're positive, making you undetectable, which means you're untransmittable. Which means that bathhouses are much less likely to be a vector of disease. And as we've heard in testimony, they weren't that much of a vector back in the '80s. What I'm most concerned about though is the willingness of some members of this body to engage in that kind of discussion, in that kind of fear-mongering about these spaces. That's a portion of queer culture that's been around for centuries. What I can tell you too is that banning these spaces doesn't stop the activity. It just shoves it underground. And it when those spaces go underground, it's less safe, more prone to bad actors, and subject more scrutiny from police. There's no other enforcement mechanism that exists there. You can't sue anybody if something happens. There's no way to check if that everybody is who they say they are. And they lack the protection of the law. As somebody who's been in those spaces and run into those sorts of incidences, it's really a problem that we don't have a safe, regulated space for us to go. Your job is to make sure that LGBT residents here in Minneapolis are safe and the way to do that is to have these businesses regulated and open. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next up we have Tyler Grant and then we'll have number 31 which will be Epiphany and then number 33 will be Ken. Welcome. >> Thank you. Good afternoon Council Chair Chavez and Council members. My name is Tyler Grant. I'm a transplant of 12 years brought here by the U for my MBA. I'm coming before you today as a resident of Ward 1 but also as a business owner in Ward 7. My fellow queer community members have made the case for the public health and positive financial implications of the repeal so I will take a different tact for those still considering a vote against. I run a business which leads a coalition of wellness practitioners particularly around deep tissue rehabilitative massage. Historically massage therapy has been the cover for sex work with legislation and business requirements to match. Let me make this clear. Sex work is work and should be legalized. Today sex work is the cover for human trafficking one of the most abhorrent issues for governments to tackle. The more that we are able to delineate massage therapy, sex work and human trafficking the more that we are able to legitimize and support our community members and the more that you're able to route human trafficking. That is something we are all against, correct? Thank you. >> Next up we have Epiphany 31. 32 will not be speaking. Number 33 Ken. >> Hi, it's nice to see you all again. I'm Miss Epiphany and I'm a sex worker which means I'm just like you but my clothes look better and I am legally discriminated against even when I'm doing completely legal adult activities and adult entertainment. And me being a sex worker isn't why I'm here in support of the repeal of the bathhouse ban. However, me filling in the gaps in your public health policy is because every single month I tell grown men that those male enhancement pills at the gas station are not good for you. Every month I tell people how to get screened for sexually transmitted infections. Every month I prevent countless trips to the ER by talking about flared bases and lube. So, I'm here filling in your public health gaps by people who are lucky enough to be able to afford my time. But, the reason that they are seeking me out is because we are all pushed to the shadows. We do not have venues for adult sexual behavior. We do not have places where adults can go and hang out and be adults and do what adults do in an environment that can provide them this information. We don't even have any kind of real education or outreach, alignment is excluded, for a lot of these issues. And so, what you can do is you can repeal this ban. And then we can have venues. We can have infrastructure. We can have revenue generating businesses that will also provide public outreach for these sexual health issues that currently I am taking care of. Um, and I am not getting paid for that part, by the way. So, I would appreciate you all repealing this ban. Thank you. >> Next up, I think it's Ken, number 33, then number 34, Jacob, and then Jack, number 35, and then that will be it. >> Hi, uh my name is Ken Kalina. I'm a 40-year resident of Minneapolis um and have been in the 10th Ward for the past 30-plus years. Um first off, thank you uh Chair Chavez and uh fellow council members for taking up this issue. Um for those critics who question why Minneapolis would want to emulate San Francisco, um I'll respond by saying Dallas, Houston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Colorado Springs, Phoenix, Vegas, Seattle, Portland, Orlando, Miami, Columbus, Cleveland, Indianapolis, St. Louis. Um all have gay bathhouses, even the Bible Belt is represented. So, this isn't just a blue state or a liberal issue. Um for those critics who say why would Minneapolis bring up this issue now? Don't we have bigger issues to address? At this time, um I'll respond by saying if not now, then when? Um by way of comparison, uh when COVID was identified 6 years ago, um hospitals were inundated, people died, rules were implemented, and within a year or two, we learned a lot about the coronavirus, those rules were relaxed, um similarly, when HIV was originally discovered, hospitals were inundated, people died, rules were implemented, bathhouses were closed. Um similarly, we've since learned a lot about the transmission of HIV. Um there are antivirals, which can bring those infected to undetectable levels. Um there's uh highly effective pre-exposure and post-exposure prophylactic measures. Um but yet 38 years later, um a queer space such as a bathhouse remains closed and illegal in Minneapolis. Um finally, um for those critics who don't know about those advancements I just mentioned in HIV uh prevention, um then I'll respond by saying what better place to learn than in those places where uh queer people congregate and more importantly in a safe, regulated environment. >> Appreciate it. Next up we have Um was it Kennard Jacob? Two Jacob, yeah. Yeah, well hey y'all. Uh my name is Jacob Thomas. I use he/him pronouns. I am a resident of Ward 3 uh and I'm also on the Board of Governors of the Human Rights Campaign uh representing Minnesota at the national level. Um I'm also an 8-year Air Force veteran and I've seen firsthand how discriminatory policies can harm people in their lives. Uh for more than half of my career on active duty, I had to serve under the discriminatory policy known as Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Um and once it was finally and rightly repealed, I served this country for another 4 years as an open and out proud gay man in the military. Um and it's a wonderful thing that I loved that I was able to do. Uh half of that time though was not so fun, right? Because we had discriminatory policies there uh in place that did should not have been there in the first place and should have been repealed long before I even made it onto the service. Uh what we're seeing here is the exact same thing. As you've heard uh today the bathhouse ban in Minneapolis is outdated. It does not serve public health. It does not serve the public good. Uh and it is discriminatory. It is far time far past time for this to be put into the dustbin of history like Don't Ask, Don't Tell was and I hope that this body will continue to show this state and this country why Minnesota is a true North Star of equality and acceptance and inclusion by advancing this and repealing this bathhouse ban. Thank you. >> Next up, Jack L and then Claire and then I'll make the final warning as we have to get going on with business today. >> Hello. Uh my name is Jack. I live in Ward 10. Um I moved to Minneapolis uh a little under 2 years ago for school from Missouri. Um and I I have heard people talk about uh one of the advantages of of the bathhouses being that this would be >> You may proceed. >> Okay, thank you. Um being that this would be a this would be a uh a place for people from out of state to go. Um I want to speak to that a little bit. Uh growing up in Missouri, um I I was surrounded by a supportive community. I I love where I grew up. Um and in many ways I had a lot of resources. The thing that I didn't have and the thing that is a big part of why I'm still here today and plan on living in Minneapolis for uh the foreseeable future is that what I didn't have was consistency. Um I wasn't when I was in my early 20s and and in in college there, I didn't have a place where I knew that there would be resources and people who are educated to explain uh explain how to be safe to me. Um And I had to figure that out for myself and you know, sometimes get bad research, sometimes not have a good idea about what was a safe or dangerous situation. And um having having institutions like bathhouses uh is a an important piece of that puzzle, um especially for people who don't necessarily know where else to go. Um thank you. >> And the last one to sign up is Claire. >> [clears throat] [sighs] >> I'll keep this brief. My name is Claire Kingstad. I'm a resident of Ward 1. I've been living in Minneapolis for 20 years. I've been organizing on this issue with the Safer Sex Spaces Coalition for the last 3 years. I want to thank everyone here and the body and staff and everyone here who has spoken about this issue. This is a brave thing to do to speak out about something that has been deeply stigmatized and is a very uncomfortable conversation to be having in public. Thank you all for treating this issue with the dignity that it deserves, giving it the attention and the space to discuss and listen to the facts from the community. This is not easy. I understand there's political capital at risk here. So, thank you. I also want to thank each and every one of you who didn't speak out today, who wrote in with public comment because not everyone has the ability to come here in person. I took a risk here today. This is not something that's easy for me to talk about, but it's deeply important to me personally, professionally, and as a community member. I'm an out lesbian. This has been an issue centered around gay men, but this applies to everyone, not just the LGBTQIA+ community. This is applies to everyone. Thank you all for your time, and I appreciate the work that the staff and everyone has done on this. >> Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to address the committee? I'll give three warnings. Warning one, warning two, warning three. Seeing no one else wishing to speak, I will now close this hearing. Now, I'll move this item for approval and ask if there are any questions or discussions from committee members. >> And I'll second that. >> Council President Payton. >> Uh thank you, Chair Chavez. I just wanted to make sure I gave thanks to you and your leadership and co-authoring this. Uh Council Member Chaughtry, who's joined us, uh Council Member Wansley, Council Member Chuck Thai, and Vice Chair Stevenson. Uh but I especially want to thank uh Brandon Garcia from my office. He's been working hand-in-hand with the Safer Sex Coalition that I wanted to give a really special shout out to. This isn't coming from me. This isn't coming from the City Council. This is coming from your deep love and commitment for your community and advocating for yourselves. And so, um it's an honor to have my name attached to it, but I know that this is this is your work and we do this work together. And so, I just wanted to say that. >> Council Member Whiting. >> Yes, uh thank you, Chair Chavez. Uh and want to note here on the front end, and thank you to to to all of our our residents, community members, and advocates uh that came today, right? For me, I think it is this is not a space uh that I normally existed in. So, hearing from so many of you about your experiences is absolutely helpful as we kind of think through uh how to navigate uh in in these processes and this history, right? It is really helpful uh to kind of hear the history of our our 2S LGBTQIA community and the history within and those contexts related to the City of Minneapolis. Uh and I kind of want to walk through a little bit here, um kind of how I've been engaging with this issue in community, right? Ward 11 uh is is the ward I I get the honor uh to represent. Uh Ward 11 is one of the least diverse wards in our city. It is one of the more affluent wards in our city. And so, you know, I I I had the pleasure over the last couple of weekends as I'm sure many of you know, the end of school season, which means a lot of grad parties. And so, if not a note for for prospective elects, go to grad parties, you get to speak to a lot of a lot of community members. And so, over the past couple of weeks, beyond small talk, it eventually ends up into politics. One of those issues was was bathhouses. And so, I've had plenty of conversations with with my residents and constituents over the past couple of couple of weekends. And and the first thing that kind of comes up to to me is right, confusion around I think this ordinance is. It's like, "Okay, what is this bathhouse thing that is coming up?" Right, you hear it in the news, you see it in the newspapers. And I think, right, confusion isn't inherently a bad thing. I think it allows for for conversation to happen. And and the way I have been kind of navigating this issue has been particularly around trying to impart my best on that confusion. And as we've heard today, and I think this is is right, it's helpful to me to understand it kind of in a logical manner. These spaces already exist. These spaces exist underground and under under the radar. And so, the way that I speak to kind of my residents that, "Hey, if these places exist, if these issues and and communities are in a place that that are underground, that are under the radar, we as a body have a have a responsibility to ensure that we are doing the best to make these places that we've heard from all of you safe, licensed, regulated for all the reasons that I think every single one of you um spoke about today. Uh and that is where I I think, you know, where the this confusion then instead of remaining in confusion and starting to turn into to more a bigotry and discrimination, we get outside of that confusion and get into education. Uh and so that is where I think, you know, I I have some questions, but again, just kind of wanted to to walk through where where I am kind of coming from in support of an ordinance like this. Uh and then right at we we had a I think it was it was really helpful from one of the individual that today was like, "Hey, right, there's political capital at expense here and and like we'll have your back when these things come up and and right, I think it's our job is to take the political heat. That's why we're up here. That's why we get elected." Um but where I think you can have our backs is in those conversations um where you can continue to educate, continue to to advocate, and and and make this uh something that right, where you know, if if I can have conversations 50, 60, hundreds of my residents, that's helpful. Um but as you have those conversations with those that are confused, I think engage in those conversations uh cuz that is where we I think we start to to win hearts and minds is it necessarily in uh in in antagonistic um fashion, but in in versions of education. Um to that point, I do have a few questions here. Uh I mean, it maybe might make sense to to the authors. Particularly, it sounds like I I heard Councilmember Stevenson note that this ordinance itself along with it seems like that the other ordinance coming out of uh of our BIZ committee um doesn't kind of open the the gates for development. Um just kind of had a question on that. Like where I guess are we in the process um if this doesn't open up kind of the development for spaces as such? >> I can take a first crack at it. These are just technical amendments that will allow us to then in the future be able to work on the zoning and safety regulations, so where they are going to be in the city of Minneapolis, what regulations we have in place, what safety measures we're going to require. So, uh that is a part that we are committed to working with folks in this body and have committed to the mayor that we would work closely with his administration on the development of it. >> Great. Thank you, Chair Chavez. I think that's really helpful as we think through the regulatory framework um and the safeguards that as these spaces exist and and and when they are going to exist, ensuring that we have these uh protections in place. Um right, I think you know, with all of the housing code, business licensing, health code, etc. Um it sounds like we are are looking into that and figuring that out and this is kind of the first step in that process. Um other question kind of here and this is more of just a a curiosity question. Uh right, I kind of did some as people were kind of noting that other cities had these um and right, it's my understanding in this in the state of Minnesota right now, though the cities that exist that have these kind of legal on our books are are are St. Paul, St. Cloud, and Duluth. And then Duluth is the only one that where one exists at the moment. And then was looking at kind of like Chicago and others and it looks like um Chicago from from my just quick Google search has one. I guess my question like the hope then is for these spaces to exist outside of kind of the underground and under the radar spaces so for uh health reasons, for reasons that we all can kind of hear the arguments for. Um when cities in cities that do kind of move forward with with kind of the the legalization of of these adult spaces, do we see uh movement within the community to kind of embrace these spaces or do they more so still stay kind of underground and under the radar? >> Uh thank you, Councilmember Wariani, for that question. I won't be able to speak for every municipality across the country that has these in place, but we do know that San Francisco has some robust protections in place. And what we do see this is not only like a human rights issue, but it has helped address some of the economic burdens that cities face when it comes to tax taxes, if that's your question. >> Yeah, and I think right I think my my hope is is if we move forward with with the legalization of these spaces that that actually we do move forward with the legal legalization of these spaces and that these spaces will then exist where whether than just being like oh kind of a performatory I'm not saying this is a performatory action, but actually allowing for these spaces to exist that instead of right with if Chicago only has one and Duluth only has one in St. Cloud and and and St. Paul have these on the books ensuring that that these are actually coming to fruition. >> That is our goal and I think Council President Payne would want to answer that, too. >> Yeah, and I think this even came up in one of the the comments is around we don't want this to be such a heavily regulated framework that it's too big of a barrier to open up a venue. That would kind of go against the goal of creating the safer space that is clean and safe. And so this was actually one of the topics that was brought up when we met with the mayor around his support for this is he didn't want to see this become something that was such a burden to the businesses that do want to open this type of venue, such a high expense to the businesses that want to open a venue that it ends up being a repeal on paper but not in practice. And so I think to your previous question, today's ordinance is about setting the foundation so that we can do that deeper work around finding that right balance of keeping people safe, making sure that it's a viable pathway for those businesses so that it can come from underground and be in the light cuz if if if the license is too heavy, if the costs are too high, it will stay underground. So, that's exactly what we're trying to set the foundation to create the balance for. >> you, President Payne. Yeah, I think that was kind of my concern, right? It's like, "Hey, is it is it a repeal on paper, but then in in in in actual implementation, it just doesn't happen." So, thank you for that. Again, I'm excited to support this here on this front, and it will be a bummer I will have to miss the actual final vote of this on the on the 26th, but excited and thankful to the to the authors for bringing it forward. Thank you. >> Next up, Vice Chair Stevenson. >> Thank you, Chair. I mostly just want to say thank you. Thank you to the testifiers. Thank you for coming out and speaking to this. This was really beautiful. We don't always get positivity and beauty and love in this chamber coming from us, coming to us all types of ways. So, thank you so much for this. This was really incredible for me. I want to thank the other co-authors, particularly Chair Chavez for leading on this. This has been a long work, and a lot of work has gone into it again with Brandon. Again, a lot of work. I want to thank my predecessor, former Council Member Andrea Jenkins, for starting this work as well. And I want to thank her for being a pioneer in this field, being a pioneer in herself. And then, I want to thank Ward 8, who when I was running, Ward 8 was very clear with me on the doors. I would knock on somebody's door and they say, "Yeah, I like everything that you're saying, but are you going to keep Andrea Jenkins' work of advancing trans equity going?" And they said that is that will decide whether I would ever vote for you or not. And so, Ward 8 was extremely clear with me that if I didn't keep this work going, and if I didn't be a part of this, that they wouldn't be a part of whatever I had going on. So, I want to thank um my people for for being clear, for being beautiful people, and for um fighting for the equity of trans people, of the LGBTQ community in general. Um and thank you for being firm on good values. >> Councilmember Vita. >> Thank you, Chair Chavez. First, I want to thank you, Chair Chavez. You've been extremely kind with your time with my office and um working together on this. I know it's something that's extremely important to you, and certainly it's a mixed bag in Ward 4. We've had people reach out on both sides of the issue, and I would say that we have a large LGBTQ community in Ward 4, especially in the Victory neighborhood. And my plan was um essentially to host some sort of a community meeting this summer to talk to Ward 4 residents about uh this issue and, you know, what's before us today. Councilmember um Chavez and I kind of had a little argument this morning about this because these sorts of things that's happening today means more work. What's happening today is language. These are technical things that are happening, but the message that's getting out to community is that today is the day we're voting on bathhouses, and that's not it. And I I really am appreciating this being done in steps, but I think as a community we have to make sure that the public understands the steps we're taking. Be because people get upset quickly about things, especially when they don't feel like they've had a voice. So, I am certainly learning a lot. I will say um you know, I resent anything that uh makes it seems like if people do want to vote against this, that they are some somehow anti-LGBTQ. It I don't think anyone's made their mind up on this, but me personally, in the late '90s, early 2000s, I was certified through the Red Cross to be a HIV and AIDS um instructor and get people tested and giving out condoms and getting people housing resources. And I did that work through the black church. That was hard work in the late '90s and the early 2000s to be in black churches talking about HIV and AIDS and getting people to disclose themselves and want to take the test and want to go with you to the Red Cross and want to participate in events. And so, like, I I don't want um it to feel like if I did, which we're not even at a place of voting or not, that I don't care about this community because I certainly do. Always have and always will. And so, you know, I think it's something that we can work together. I'm hearing my work together on I'm hearing my colleagues say they're having conversations with the mayor in advance. And the last thing we need in this community as a whole in Minneapolis, we've shown the world our strength. The last thing we need is something that divides us. I really believe we can work on this together. We're doing this in steps. I I love how Council Member Chavez is leading this work, talking to staff, working with the different departments, getting different points of views. You all can't see things on that side. On this side, that's a lot and that's very different than the way things have happened around here traditionally. So, I I appreciate the work that's going into it, but I I do want us to make sure that we're taking community on this ride with us around the steps we're taking to get there. is not a final step. This is not meaning that a bathhouse is going to open. And And the last point I want to make is someone brought up the point about um you know, there being maybe one bathhouse in Chicago. Chicago is much bigger than Minneapolis. I mean, as a straight woman, I've been to bathhouses, not during operation hours because you can't go in during the time it's operating as a straight woman. But I've went in to visit them. And I've went in to visit them all over the world. Australia, Spain, Amsterdam. I've been to them. I know what they look like. I've seen them. And so, what I think we have to really focus on, too, is like there's not going to be a bathhouse on every block. I think that is the narrative that has been created here that like you get a bathhouse, you get a bathhouse, you get a bathhouse, right? Like everywhere. Cuz that is the fear that's happening in my community, too. People are like, "I want a bathhouse, but not on the corner where the school is." Right? So, like there's all these things we have to work through. There may very well be one bathhouse, and it might be in the North Loop, and we don't know that. Or it might be in Uptown. We don't know that. We don't know where it's going to It might be next to the Red Door, for all we know. We don't know. But, I think the fear is really that there's just going to be this just bathhouses going up everywhere, right? And we have not done the work of a community to say, "Hey, there may be We don't even know if anyone's interested." I don't know the scene right now, but I don't know if this is a scene for bathhouses in Minneapolis, right? Like that it's going to be um that big up a deal where somebody's going to come in and invest in this big bath I don't know that. We don't know that. We What is happening here is someone's trying to create an opportunity for that, and I think we should be having open conversations, no matter where we are on the issue. But, also, like we have to do a better job at making sure that fear doesn't keep on brewing. Because the longer it brews, the harder it becomes for us to do this work. And and it really is people thinking bathhouses And when we talk about economic engines and things like that, that really puts fear into people, too. Because to one bathhouse is not going to be an economic engine. When you say economic engine, people thinks like it's Engine means a lot a lot a lot. Like that their tax burden is somehow going to be relieved from all of these bathhouses coming in. I'm just reflecting on what people have been saying to me. And so, I really do want us to come together and make sure we're having conversations and that it's not scaring people anymore and that if that is the goal, that we can work as a community to ensure what the end goal is here really does happen with the mayor's support, of course. Thank you. >> Thank you. Council member Warsame. >> Yeah, thank you, Chair Chavez. I also want to say thank you to everyone who showed up and testified today. I am more than happy to support this ordinance and I'm supporting it today and I'll be supporting it next week when we vote for it for final consideration. And the reason why there's no hesitancy on my end is because we are currently in a national climate where every single day, as you all reiterated, that we have a homophobic, violent, racist president in office that is rallying up and emboldening his fellow GOP fill in the blank. And their goals has been to write the existence, legally exclude the existence of LGBTQ+ and our trans residents and neighbors and loved ones and relatives. And it makes no sense in a climate where in response to that, where Minnesota and Minneapolis stood ten toes down and said, "We will be a refuge for our queer relatives and neighbors." That we will continue having policies on the books that do not align with that same vision. And if we do, then it's just symbolic in nature. And we are leading folks to come here and experience a different reality than what they imagined and have it be much more in line with what they fled from. And I don't think in this current time that we should be allowing fear to dictate our policy decisions. And if it is a debatable, I think that is a really good reflective period, too, of where are we actually at in our current city? Um if we truly are a place that embrace our queer communities, especially as we saw at the leadership of Council Member Chavez and a number of my colleagues, we had a beautiful celebration last week here in City Hall, um where we had uh pro ballroom dancing. We had drag. We had beautiful presentations that acknowledge the historical contributions to our community. It would make no sense for us to be able to have such a beautiful celebration and then allow a policy to stay in place that does not align with that embrace of our communities, with that acknowledgement of our communities. So, for me is a no-brainer to support this policy. This is should be a nothingburger um in the landscape of other things that we need to be tackling, such as making sure that we're devoting more resources to address hate crimes that are still being directed at our queer communities. The fact that many of our queer relatives and residents here are still facing high levels of housing insecurity and homelessness. What are we doing about that? Um what all sorts of things of employment opportunities, so no one has to be forced into the shadows to earn a of livelihood to take care of themselves and their families. Those are the things that we should be looking at, too, um as opposed to spending a lot of political energy debating bathhouses. So, for me, this is such a great opportunity to really have a easy layup >> [laughter] >> um during Pride Month of all things uh to say that we're going to stand with our communities and we're going to put our policy where our mouths and our commitments are. Um if we can have a celebration here inside of City Hall, then we can pass policies that make sure our queer folks know that we don't we don't just appreciate you when you're dancing and singing in front of us. We appreciate you when you leave this place, when you go to your your communities to to have joy and experience love with each other. When you go to your places of worship, when you go to your places of employment and your housing, we're doing everything that we can to make sure that that those places are stable and safe for you. So, I see this as a holistic approach. Um I look forward to hopefully sending this out of this committee with the full support of it. Um and ideally having full passage of this next Thursday. Thank you all. >> Council member Rainville. Council member Rainville. >> Thank you. I want to echo the the thanks for all the community to come down today. It's it's not easy. This is a a very difficult time of the day to set yourself free. And it's so good to see familiar faces here. Uh I still have a lot of questions on this and I look forward to the conversations before I make my mind up. I have gotten a lot of feedback from Ward 3, an incredible amount of feedback. So, uh none of the authors have approached me yet and I hope that happens sooner than later. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um I'll be on Council member Rainville, I just I hope you can correct the record respectfully. We have reached out to you multiple times. We've met with your staff and we have talked about this ordinance. And I just want to clear the record cuz that would be unfair to me as an author of this ordinance to not admit that we've met about this already. >> I look forward to speaking with you directly. >> Yes, I look forward to meeting with you, but I just wanted to clarify we've met about this ordinance. Our staff has. And I just don't want the public to think that we haven't reached out to every single council member cuz we have. Um colleagues, I hope that I can earn we can earn the support of all of you regarding this ordinance. As I mentioned earlier, these are technical amendments and my commitment to everybody on the council and the mayor is to continue working on the regulatory framework to make sure that when we bring forward the regulations in place, it is something that we can be satisfied about. This obviously won't legalize bathhouses when it passes that when it hopefully passes next week, but it does allow us the time to build out a framework to get this right and to support our community. So I just hope that we can approve this today and full council next week. And clerk, you may call the roll. >> Council member Payne. >> Aye. >> Warsame. >> Aye. >> Rainville. >> No. >> Vetaw. >> Aye. >> Whiting. >> Aye. >> Vice Chair Stevenson. >> Aye. >> Chair Chavez. >> Aye. >> That is six ayes and one nay. >> And that is moved with approval to full council next week. Colleagues, NEXT AND WE'RE YEAH. >> [applause] >> OUR NEXT ITEM IS 3.1. Item number three, which is the welcoming and affirming Minneapolis ordinance. And I kind of want to get a pulse check, colleagues. It feels like it's going to be a longer day. And I want to make sure that we know when the captions are here until. >> We have them scheduled until 5:30. >> Okay. Our next Thank you. Our next item is 3.1, which is the welcoming and affirming Minneapolis ordinance. Without objection, I would like to make Council President Payne reflected as an author as he's been working on this with us as well. And then we'll pull up the presentation and begin. >> [snorts] >> Colleagues, we're excited to introduce the welcoming and affirming Minneapolis ordinance with Council member Chakhtoura, Council member Chavez, and Council President Payne. It is important to talk about the importance of this work because since taking office in January 2025, the Trump administration has pursued an aggressive campaign against 2S LGBTQIA rights, issuing executive orders, threatening federal funding, and implementing policies that target gender-affirming and intersex care, restrict gender expression, and roll back decades of civil rights protection. The ordinance we're speaking about today issues local protections for our neighbors at a time when the Trump administration is hoping to strip those protections. It is important to talk about why we are doing this today. Minneapolis has always led on the rights of our neighbors. In 1974, Minneapolis was the first US city to ban discrimination based on sexual orientation. In 1975, the Minneapolis was the first city to ban discrimination based on gender identity. We know that our community members are still under attack with a federal overreach targeting our 2S LGBTQI+ people. We know that government resources are being used to attempt to erase trans and non-binary people from public life. And we also know that gender-affirming care, intersex care, and civil civil rights protections are under attack by the federal administration. We also know that Minneapolis is welcoming and we're hoping to ensure that the city's commitment to being a welcoming city is not just talk, but that we are doing so by enacting local protections. Now, we will get into the different components of this ordinance. We added a strong purpose and policy statement into the code that we will read into the public record. The city of Minneapolis declares that the rights [snorts] to self-determination, bodily autonomy, and access to gender-affirming and reproductive health health care are fundamental human rights. That protecting the lives and rights of two-spirit, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex, and asexual and other identities and experiences that fit with these communities collectively 2S LGBTQIA+ is necessary for the city's public health, peace, and safety. The city's civil rights ordinance banned discrimination based on sexual orientation in 1974. And in 1975, the city amended its civil rights ordinance and became the first city in the US to ban discrimination based on gender identity. In 2022, the city and in 2023, the state of Minnesota issued executive orders to protect and support the rights of Minnesotans 2S LGBTQIA+ community to safely seek and receive gender-affirming health care services. Our 2S LGBTQIA+ community members both locally and nationally continue to be negatively impacted by the proliferation of executive and legislative attacks that perpetuate a culture of discrimination, harassment, and barriers to equal opportunities for the community. And studies suggest that 2S LGBTQIA+ people are overrepresented in Minnesota's unhoused population. And the 2S LGBTQIA+ people are overrepresentation increases to almost 1/4 for youth experiencing homelessness. And we really want to mention that in the purpose and policy statement because our neighbors here are disproportionately impacted by being homeless. We talked about Minneapolis is home to people from diverse racial, ethnic, and gender identities and backgrounds. And it plays a refuge for people coming from places that do not have the same policies and protections. All residents and visitors, regardless of their gender identity, expression, or medical history, are valued and integral to our work uh for social, cultural, and and economic community. The city is unwavering in its ongoing commitment to creating a welcoming and respectful atmosphere for everyone to be be regardless of race, ethnicity, gender identity, and sexual orientation. To further this commitment, the city values equal protection and equal treatment for all residents and visitors. The city rejects and condemns the strongest possible terms in the horrific and discriminatory efforts to use government to erase the identity of 2S LGBTQIA+ people and drive them out of public life. The city prioritizes using its limited resources to improve health and safety for its residents and visitors. And that gender-affirming care takes many forms, is evidence-based, and supported by peer-reviewed science and lived experience of transgender and gender-expansive people. The city firmly rejects any attempts to weaponize government resources to disenfranchise or criminalize individuals for seeking or providing life-saving care that is legal in Minnesota. Now, we will go into the gender-affirming and intersex care component. The ordinance defines gender-affirming care as all medical, surgical, counseling, or referral services, including telehealth services, that individual may receive to support and affirm the individual's gender identity or gender expression, and that are legal in this legal that are legal laws under the state of Minnesota. The ordinance defines intersex care as all medical, surgical, counseling, or referral services, including telehealth services, that individual may receive related to natural differences or variations in sex characteristics or reproductive anatomy that are legal under the laws of Minnesota. Now, we will get into the gender-affirming and intersex care components more deeply. Uh for the protections, this ordinance will put into city code that the city is a safe haven for gender-affirming and intersex care. The city acknowledges that minors living interdependently may consent to their own gender-affirming and intersex care or intersex care. That no city personnel may be used a person's age or parental status as a basis to cooperate with anyone seeking to prevent or punish legal health care. And that unless required by law, city employees, representatives, and contractors may not use city facilities, properties, monies, equipment, or city personnel to interfere with the ability of any person's ability to receive gender-affirming or intersex care, to interfere with the ability for any person to advocate for another person's access to receive gender-affirming care, or for enforcing federal laws that prevent or limit gender-affirming or intersex care. And that unless required by law, city personnel may not disclose any private data, medical information, or surveillance data, included but not limited to traffic or security camera footage, regarding a person's gender-affirming or intersex care. >> [sighs and gasps] >> The city will also not enter into any agreements requiring it to share data or resources to interfere with enforcing bans upon or criminalizing gender-affirming or intersex care. And to the extent permitted by law, the city employees health insurance plan must offer coverage for all eligible city employees and their dependents that includes gender-affirming care benefits, along with protections for intersex health care. And the administration must ensure the city's employees health plan offers coverage that address the health care needs of the intersex community, which I just mentioned. Now, we will go into some of the use of city funds, facilities, and data. The city will not, with this ordinance, will not accept or distribute grant funds that have any conditions that require the city to limit the rights of individuals based on gender, gender identity, gender expression, or sexual orientation. When constructing or remodeling a city-owned building, the building must provide at least one American with Disabilities Accessible All Gender Restroom on every floor with restrooms. And when leasing a new city building, the building must do to the extent reasonably feasible provide at least one ADA accessible gender all gender restroom on every floor with restrooms. For existing city owned or leased buildings without all gender restrooms, the city must ensure that any gender specific language on existing single use restroom be promptly replaced with gender neutral language and signage. And that no person may be denied access to a restroom or changing facility that accords with their gender identity in any facility owned or operated by the city. And lastly, that the administration must create policies or procedures governing the city's collection of data from the public related from the public related to sexual orientation and gender identity. Now, we will go into the outreach and engagement components, where the administration must report annually to the appropriate committee of the city council on its outreach and engagement efforts to the 2S LGBTQIA+ community. And that the report should include at a minimum a description of the administration's outreach and engagement efforts and any metrics on the effectiveness and results of those efforts. And after that report is presented to the city council, the Commission on Civil Rights must review that annual report. And if the city council creates an advisory board or body that focuses on the 2S LGBTQIA+ community, that body must review the annual report after the report is presented to the city council and may provide the administration, the city council, and the public with feedback on the report and the administration's outreach and engagement efforts. Now, we will get into the last part, which is the complaints, discipline, and reporting. That violations of these sections 145.20 and 145.30 of this chapter by employees are subject to disciplinary actions. There's a requirement of summary data about the number and disposition of complaints that must be reported to the City Council by June 30th and December 31st each year. And if a complaint is filed alleging a violation of section 145.20 and 145.30D, in the course of investigating the alleged violation, no complaint or witness may be compelled by the city investigating authority to provide their gender identity or sexual orientation. The city must reserve all data related to complaints under this section for at least 12 months after the complaint is closed. And the administration must ensure there is a mechanism for the public to report alleged violations of this chapter by employees. With that, colleagues, I will now open the public hearing, and the first person to speak is Stacy. >> that this is something that will be worked on. It's the difference between easily seeing in a room with light on and not being able to see when the lights are off. So, thank you for the efforts to get that going. I'm Stacy Gurney and Sherman and eight-year Ward 9 Corcoran resident. I'm speaking in full support >> for both ordinances that formally enshrine >> I'm sorry. >> Here we go. >> that formally enshrine Minneapolis as a welcoming city for 2S LGBTQIA+ people. I'm doing so as the mother of my wonderful queer and transgender offspring. They are an educator in a school that is about 1/3 newcomer immigrants. And this year alone, several domestic refugees joined them when their families moved from out of state to protect their tran- transgender children. I'm supporting these ordinances thinking of the poem First they came about the political apathy from the failure to speak up against the Nazis. You remember it. They came for the socialists, they came for the trade union- yes, and the Jews until there was no one left to speak out. Tens of thousands of queer people were left out of this poem. They were violently rounded up and many perished. And to this day, too often they are forgotten. Trump sure has not forgotten. We've seen the impact of the evisceration of diversity, equity, inclusion across the spectrum. And the federal regime's 2026 US counterterrorism strategy targets, quote, those with radical pro-transgender ideologies. Their reign of terror started with the immigrant community and with ICE and DJ's also ensnaring those in the black, brown, and indigenous communities as well as protesters. However, we did not remain silent. We continue to gather, speak up, organize, and respond under the banner, we have your backs. The city of Minneapolis is officially and proudly speaking up with these ordinances changes that have real teeth. We're defying the history of staying silent. Every city council member should support this and have the backs of our queer community. Thank you. >> Next up, number two will be Araceli, then we'll have Susan, number three, and then we'll have Nell or Neil, number four. >> Hi, good afternoon, um, again, and thank you for your time today. My name is Araceli Casasola. I use she/her pronouns and I am a proud resident of Ward 10. I am a teacher and volunteer advocate, and I moved to Minneapolis last year because I needed the protections that the state provides. As a trans teacher in Texas, I faced almost daily harassment and threats to my job and life. It was painful and difficult, and I knew that the rising anti-trans rhetoric in the second Trump administration what the second Trump administration would mean for me. So, I joined several others in leaving for our safety. In Minneapolis, I found more than a safe haven. I found a queer community that loves this city. I know that because in every mutual aid effort, every community patrol, in our neighborhood meetings, in our cultural cultural institutions, and as the cornerstones of our small businesses, I have found my queer siblings fighting to protect this city and make life better for everyone. Famously, one of our community members gave her life this winter doing exactly that, defending others. Still, queer people face challenges in equal opportunities to employment, housing, health care, and in the case of trans people like myself, their very existence across this country. According to the Movement Advancement Project, an estimated 400,000 transgender people like me have already fled their states for safer ones like Minnesota in 2025. Those are our teachers, our software engineers, our nurses, our baristas, our legislative assistants, tattoo artists, and our most politically active citizens fighting for a better Minneapolis. By taking a small step to bolster our sexuality and gender identity protections, updating non-discrimination and policies, you do more than show that you are listening to your most vulnerable residents or how you committed to justice you are. You show that this city will fight for us, too. Thank you. >> Thank you. And next up, we have Susan and we'll have Nancy O'Brien at Council Member Chughtai. >> I'm Commissioner Herder from the Minneapolis Commission on Civil Rights. I want to thank the City Council for their work and also thank members Tok Tai and Chavez for reaching out to the MCCR last month. We were very pleased to hear your presentation which included parts of what you went through today. Our commission would like to provide you with the thoughtful response your proposal deserves. My request is modest that uh you continue the conversation with the MCCR and give us time to respond by postponing your vote. Some of our members have uh studied civil rights for many years and would like to collaborate with you so that you can craft the best possible proposal. The MCCR only meets once a month. I request that you give us a few more meetings to provide you with our feedback. Thank you. >> Next up we have Is it Nell or Neal? Like oh, sorry. >> Gosh. Hi, my name is Nell and I am here on behalf of Tigers and all intersex children and adults who have been subject to non-consensual medical treatments from hormones to surgeries to align them more closely with what many people think is normal. Intersex people often go unnoticed even though intersex people are incredibly impacted by anti-trans laws and ordinances. Maybe that's because intersex people are such a small part of the population. Maybe it's because they don't fit easily into the narrative around gender-affirming care. Intersex people are born with different um chromosomes, first or second sex characteristics, or hormones than is typical. Some intersex variations require medication and hormone replacement therapy. Without any rights, access to these vital medications can be hard to get, and that lack of access, that enforced medical neglect, can even kill. You wouldn't ask a diabetic to live without insulin. You shouldn't ask an intersex person to live without HRT." "A halt is needed to non-consensual surgeries. That is something all intersex people need for our protection. However, this ordinance is a great first step, and I'm asking you to vote in favor of it. Thank you." >> Next up, number five, Ben Powers. Number six, Kat. Number seven, Chris. And then, number nine will be Hummingbird. >> Hello. Uh my name is Ben Powers, and I am a therapist specializing in working with gender and sexual minorities. Uh I'm here to speak on behalf of my many patients living in Minneapolis, and to encourage the Minneapolis City Council to vote in favor of the Welcoming City for All Genders and Sexualities Ordinance, and the Rules of Construction Ordinances. Uh as a gender care provider, the Welcoming City for All Genders and Sexual Orientations Ordinance is necessary for keeping Minneapolis and Minnesota as centers of care for the transgender and intersex communities. When Minneapolis and Minnesota passed protections for transgender and intersex people, I see the positive impacts of those changes in the mental health of my patients. I'm particularly in support of the provisions to limit sharing of sensitive gender care data, and the requirement of employee health uh insurances to cover gender care. In order for medical and mental health care to be effective, patient information must be kept private, and gender care must be covered by insurance. Gender care is medically necessary and life-saving for my patients. This ordinance allows my patients who live in Minneapolis to continue living happy, healthy lives. I'm also appreciative of the inclusion of intersex care in this ordinance. Intersex people are prevalent but frequently invisible in conversations of medical medical care and policy protections. Omitting intersex people from gender care and policy discussions negatively affects their health care outcomes. Thank you for seeing and including protections for intersex people in this ordinance. I hope you continue to consider the health and rights of intersex people in similar policies moving forward. Uh in my mental health practice, most of my clients are transgender, intersex, or gender non-conforming. They experience marginalization from multiple angles and frequently struggle to navigate bureaucracies, including interactions with local government. While it might seem small to some outside communities, adopting inclusive gender-neutral language like those proposed in the rules of construction will make navigating local government interactions easier and less stressful. Thank you for your time and happy pride. >> Thank you. Welcome, Kat. >> Thank [snorts] you. Once again, my name is Kat Rona. I'm the executive director of OutFront Minnesota, our state's largest LGBTQ advocacy organization. I'm pleased to come here in support of this ordinance and the important work that's being done to continue to protect all of our 2S LGBTQIA+ residents here in Minneapolis and to send a message, equally importantly, to both Minnesotans and folks across this country that our communities are valued, that our communities are deserving of protection, that people in positions of power have our back. In 2022, uh the mayor of this city uh passed an executive order protecting gender-affirming care. In 2023, our state did the same. This is an opportunity to codify much of that work into permanence here. And that matters, not just because administrations change, mayors change, things change, but because it sends a lasting historical signal about where the city and its leadership were at a moment of importance to our communities. Minneapolis was the first city in this country to protect LGBTQ people, all LGBTQ people from discrimination in 1974 and 1975 as the presentation noted to you. That is 50 years of support for our communities that has made meaningful differences in people's lives, in their ability to access housing, in their ability to work, in their ability to be seen as dignified members of this society. Right now, the threats are real. We are getting subpoenas from other states, from the federal government, from folks who are attempting to attack and undermine critical and necessary care, and folks across our communities are worried about what is going to happen to me. What will the federal government do next? This is an opportunity to send a different message. I hope you vote to support it. Thank you. >> Next up, we have Chris, then we have Hummingbird, and then Becca. >> Perfect. Hello, council members. My name is Chris Wicker from Ward 1. I've lived in Minneapolis for 4 years after seeking sanctuary here as a trans person fleeing the state of Iowa. I am also here today from Tigers, similar to Nell, a local organization that provides resources and support to transgender, intersex, and gender expansive Minnesotans. Intersex people make up about 1 and 1/2 to 2% of the population. This is about the same percentage of people 85 or older, more common than trans people, more common than redheads, and more common than people with green eyes. There are intersex individuals in this building right now. Intersex people, besides a single ordinance in New York City, have zero protections in the United States. Many laws mention transgender people but not intersex people. These proposed changes will explicitly close that gap. Minneapolis has the chance to meaningfully care for intersex people and put Minnesota on the map for intersex rights. These ordinances recognize that intersex people deserve privacy, dignity, and access to medically appropriate care. City resources should not be used to interfere with someone's health care. It protects sensitive personal information. It promotes practical accommodations such as all-gender restrooms and access to facilities that align with a person's identity. These protections are not radical. They are important safeguards. These changes would benefit far more people than just transgender and intersex residents. All-gender restrooms are useful for parents assisting their children, caregivers helping family members, people with disabilities who need assistance, and anyone who simply values their privacy. Gender-neutral language and policies make government services easier to navigate and access for everyone. We have an opportunity to send an important message here. Minneapolis is a city where people of all kinds are welcome. We can tell residents, visitors, and those seeking refuge from discrimination elsewhere, such as me, that they belong here and that their rights matter. Every advancement in civil rights creates a foundation for future progress. Minneapolis has the opportunity to once again be a leader. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next we have Hummingbird and then Becker. >> Hello again, um Council members. Uh again, I am proud Ward 12 resident um here in Minneapolis. I am IndigiQueer, and I'm here to speak in support of the ordinance. I've lived here for over a decade now, um but before that, I have always had big auntie energy, and I have brought many people to a much more welcoming space here in Minneapolis from the small town in an adjacent state where I grew up. My queer and questioning friends have long looked to the protections that Minneapolis offers and the and the welcoming spirit of our city. Um I have seen the impact of how the queer community of this city keeps each other safe and I applaud the city for taking on the onus of doing some of that work, too. I want to draw the attention of the council to something that this ordinance does exceptionally well, which is, as we've heard, protecting the rights of intersex people and specifically enshrines protections for intersex health care. This is a population that is too often left out of policy conversations, even ones that claim to be inclusive of the 2S LGBTQIA+ community. Intersex people are sometimes mentioned in passing, but rarely named with this level of specificity and rarely given protections that speak directly to the health care needs that they have. We have hospitals in the city who continue harmful, life-altering surgeries on intersex youth. This focus on part of our community that often gets overlooked is a reflection of the council's work prioritizing the safety for the queer community, especially during Pride Month. Thank you for taking up this responsibility and I urge you all to vote in support of this ordinance. >> Thanks, up Becca and then AB. >> Hi, Chair Chavez and members of the committee. My name is Becca. I use she/her pronouns and I am a resident of Ward 11. I'm with Transforming Families. We are an organization that supports families with gender diverse and trans youth. Um and I'm here to speak in support of the welcoming city ordinance. Um we are definitely seeing that trans people and youth especially are being scapegoated nationally. Um in our meetings and what we hear from families at Transforming Families is a great amount of fear and concern for their children and for our young people in Minneapolis who are trans or gender non-conforming. Um we actually have a new program for families who are moving here from other states for fear of their children's safety. And part of what is bringing people to Minneapolis is the awareness that we are a welcoming city that that people's children can live fully and be kids and be safe here. And putting this into policy and the power and language is really important in this moment especially. Um there is a lot of concern from families that are moving here from places where even just seeking out any sort of care for their child or their care being their children being documented in any sort of way as trans or gender non-conforming is a terrifying ordeal because that data is not safe and people are concerned for just their privacy and safety and be having their children taken from them. Um and so having that in language the safety and privacy around data is really important. This is an opportunity for City Hall to lead the way for other jurisdictions in in Minneapolis to show what it looks like to lead and we have done that over the past few months with the Operation Metro Surge and that is this is a continuation of that work of welcoming and protecting our neighbors. Thanks. >> Thank you. And lastly we have AB. >> Hello everyone. Um I wasn't planning on speaking on this one so bear with me. But Uh, um as uh, someone who was >> [sighs] >> frankly one of probably maybe generation 1.5 of like >> [sighs] >> trans children who were allowed to receive medical intervention as youth. Um, I I I started uh, receiving that sort of care at about 13 years of age. Um, and when I did it, uh, gosh, it was a I remember it was this little tiny doctor's office. There was This is not a thing at major hospitals yet. And I am so sad seeing hospitals like Children's stopping from covering this stuff. And you know, again, you shouldn't have to go to the weird little doctor in the weird little room and then go through weird hidden pharmacies so people won't do this, which was my experience. And uh, if we could make it so there's language specifically >> [sighs] >> like getting as specific as possible about this cuz they will try and reframe this as psychological care and whatever. We need to be specific. Also, again, the cons the intersex consents to uh, surgery and care. The problem is that again, as someone mentioned earlier, a lot of this is done to children who are far too young to uh, say anything on their own behalf. And again, it has permanent, sometimes incredibly negative effects on people's lives. Uh, so if that could be worked in in some fashion, uh, that would be great and I would appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, now I'll give a three not a minute warning, but three tries before I close the public hearing. Anybody else wishing to speak? Going once, twice, three times. No one Seeing no one wish to speak, I will now close this public hearing and I'll see if any of my colleagues have any questions, but I will just move this item for approval and proud of the work uh that we have been able to do along with Council member Chowdry, Council member Chughtai uh on this ordinance and really proud of the work that the community has been able to do from the years and decades of advocacy uh to demand that we should continue to become a city that is welcoming to our community, that we continue to acknowledge uh the rights of our trans and uh our our community members in in the in the city and also just um hoping that we can pass this today and move to full council. >> Second. >> Uh Council President Bender. >> Uh thank you, Chair Chavez. I'm very proud to support uh this ordinance today and I just I it there's something really joyous about doing real policy work that's responsive to the community, especially during Pride. I I I it feels really good and it's remarkably sad that this is the conditions that we're doing this policy work under. Um I have had the pleasure of meeting so many new people who've chosen Minnesota as their home and I'm very proud that we have so many people that I get to welcome as new neighbors and you know, one of the biggest leaders in my ward during Metro surge was a trans refugee woman uh and a combat veteran who did a lot of training for my community and was out there every single day. Um and at the same time during Metro surge, one of my constituents was caught up in one of the hotels as she was fleeing with her family to Canada because her trans child she just she couldn't bear staying, right? So >> [snorts] >> This is really urgent. There's no time to wait on this. Like uh, uh the attacks that are happening on this community are happening right now. Um I'm glad that we can codify this in our official record on where we stand as a government, but that still doesn't prevent the federal government from blocking Medicaid dollars and preventing hospitals that want to deliver gender-affirming care from withdrawing that out of fear for the, like, financial solvency of their institution, right? Those attacks are happening whether or not we pass these protections in local government, um, but it is so, so, so important that we say so firmly that this is a welcoming city, and we're not having any of that, and we're going to fight it in every way. So, uh, I'm I'm happy to support this today. >> Councilmember Vita >> Thank you, Chair Chavez. I certainly support the work you're doing, but, um, someone came today to speak and say they wanted to talk to you about maybe extend in the time to work with the committee, and so, just wondering, um if there's an opportunity to address that at least between now and next week, or like, how what what can we do? >> Yeah, so, my office is open to meeting with anybody before Thursday next week to hear some of the concerns that were, um, mentioned today. I will say that we initially went to the Civil Rights Commission because this ordinance was going to have a specific component requiring the Civil Rights Commission to review and give recommendations on the report, and instead, we just The only thing we went to the Civil Rights Commission was to actually talk about the part that is required for the Civil Rights Commission, which is to give a report on the engagement efforts from the administration. So, that is the only part that is relevant to the Civil Rights Commission, which is to give a report on the mayor's administration's engagement efforts to the 2S LGBTQI+ community. But we're happy to meet with individuals of the Civil Rights Commission. I know that it doesn't speak for everybody in the Civil Rights Commission. I know there was folks calling yesterday nervous that the Civil Rights Commission was going to oppose this ordinance, which I don't think is the case. >> I don't I don't feel like it's being opposed. What I What I heard was um dialogue is needed and there were uh so it some issues that maybe were brought up and it doesn't sound like a meeting time or anything. It's just like the the idea of working together on something. So I would love I I certainly support the work that you're doing here. I I really would just like an opportunity and I'm happy to reach out too and figure out what um you know, what language or what ideas folks have and um we do have time for amendments or whatever. I'm not even sure what's happening, but just want to make sure that the door's open to conversations between now and the final vote in the next week or so. >> For sure. Yep, happy to have those conversations. The one I think one of my concerns in the conversation was it felt like some of the comments were that it was too focused on the LGBTQ+ community on this ordinance, which that's what it's for. >> Okay. [laughter] >> So I I I just want to make clear that like I will I'm happy to meet with anybody, happy to meet with the concerns, but I'm not going to remove the components that protects LGBTQ+ people and that's for folks in the Civil Rights Commission. So if they want to do that, I just can't support that. >> Thank you. >> Um anybody else? All right. Um that uh the clerk may call the roll. >> Council member Payne. >> Aye. >> Wansley is absent. Rainville is absent. Vita. >> Aye. >> Whiting. >> Aye. >> Vice Chair Stevenson. >> Aye. >> Chair Chavez. >> Aye. >> That is five ayes. >> All right. And then we'll We're going to have to try to go through things more. Sorry. Uh with that that that it passes. The next ordinance is the recognizing all genders ordinance. I'm going to try to go through things more quickly because it feels like we're running out of time. Um so I'll be fairly quick. Uh this one is a recognizing all genders ordinance offered by myself, Council member Chad Green, Council member Chuck Tye, uh which basically does a few things. Um it makes sure that all genders in our city code are legally recognized. Uh for example, uh right now if you go on to the next page, uh we're striking masculine, feminine, or neuter in our code of ordinances and basically saying that anytime any gender is reflected in our city code that all genders are reflected. Our ordinances right now, we have to go through many of them. It's mostly uh he him oriented and we want to make sure that legally everybody um is respected in our city code of ordinances. Um obviously there's still going to be a lot more work that we have to do in the future to revise our ordinances, but we just want to make sure that at least legally speaking all genders are now going to be reflected uh whenever you see gendered language in our city code of ordinances. And that's what this ordinance is and it matters because our community matters and our neighbors' diversity matters and they should be represented in city government. So with that, I will now open uh the public hearing. And we have Is this Okay. So hi Kat. Welcome. >> [laughter] >> Hello again. Kat Rone, OutFront Minnesota executive director. Thank you for bringing this ordinance forward. I think, you know, there's a lot of questions that come up when we talk about the language that lives throughout city code because that has implications on work across the city. And I think a really good physical tangible example of why this is really important work is, you know, if you start searching through municipal code here, there's a lot of references to a chief financial officer in the city of Minneapolis, um but it only refers to that person as a him. Your chief financial officer, I don't believe uses he/him pronouns. Um and I think it's really important to recognize that a lot of these things were built at a time when there were assumptions about who would be sitting in seats of power. Cities across the country, including here in Minnesota, have language that's in here not out of ill intention, but just because it reflected the conversations in the community at that time. We're in a different moment. We're in a different time. We're in a different space where people of all genders are stepping into positions of leadership in community, including here within the city. And making these changes not only reflects that reality of who is serving in the city, but it reflects who is living in the city. And it's about making sure that the language is consistent so that we don't have to ask when a piece of ordinance comes up that feels inconsistent, does this really include our community? Does this really include our families? Does this really cover the people that it's intended to cover? I don't believe that there is any malicious intent in the language that exists today, but I believe that there is a great opportunity to update language for the realities of today's Minneapolis. This is a simple, easy fix. It is a complex one in terms of scope because it touches so many areas of policy, but the actual impact is very simple. It's just updating language to reflect who we are. So, I hope you can support it. Thanks for the time. >> Thank you. Um There's no one else to testify. So, I'll give a one warning, two warnings, three warnings to see if anybody else wants to testify. Given that nobody else wants to testify, I will now close this public hearing and see if my colleagues have any questions. All right. Uh Council Member Whiting. >> Council Member Chavez, I'll be very quick. Uh very excited to see this work specifically as it relates to I think gender-conforming language within our codes and across kind of our communication. It's been a broader legal effort across the legal field right now. It's actually just an efficiency thing as well. Instead of saying he, his, her, etc., just kind of having they, them broadly speaks kind of where the the the legal community has been moving. So, I appreciate your work on this and then authors' work to to move this forward. Thank you. >> Thank you. And I'll pass it to one of the authors, Council Member Chavez. >> Thank you, Chair Chavez. I just I want to wait until all the ordinances were done before speaking cuz I know you had a lot of business to do. I just um wanted to give a statement of great gratitude and thanks to our 2S LGBTQIA community. Um not only for all of the input and collaboration on this Pride and Policy Package, but just for the steadfast advocacy, community welcomingness that you've given to this city and our communities to just build solidarity across race, class, gender, sexual orientation. I think that's a big part of what Pride is about. And so, deeply appreciate it. Um thank you to OutFront Minnesota. Thank you to every person who came to um the community meeting that we did on the all-gender welcoming ordinance at Queer Community. That was very valuable. I want to give a special thank you to Tigers and Lee from Tigers as well. Um I have learned so much about the intersex community uh over the last 3 years and it's just been a wonderful and beautiful experience to especially meet a lot of the intersex youth in our city and see them so happy to have safe spaces. Um I want to thank all the residents in the 12th Ward that are a part of the 2S LGBTQIA community. I've had several residents who I've met with, door knocked, who um came to Minneapolis because this is a place that is uh a trans refuge state, trans refuge city, a welcoming place for our LGBTQIA, two-spirit community. And one of the things they've always asked of me is how do how do we actually live up to building up what a trans refuge state looks like, a welcoming city. And this is a big, important step, this policy package. I think this is the most in at least in all of the time I've worked at the city, the most policy in an entire package that we've seen come together um for our communities. And so I think this is a really, really big and important step and I hope that the advocates in this space can take this and bring it to other cities and bring it to our state legislature because we need it everywhere. And I'm looking forward to continuing to work with you to find out what else we need to do here in our code of ordinances and and our advocacy um to other levels of government. So thank you so much again. >> All right, on the motion to approve this item, the clerk may call the roll. >> Council Member Payne? >> I. >> Vita? >> I. >> Whiting? >> I. >> Vice Chair Stevenson? >> I. >> And Chair Chavez? >> I. >> That is five eyes. >> And that moves. Now, I'm going to start going quicker on the the rest of the agenda cuz it's getting a little behind. We're going to take up item number 25, 26, and 27 together. Um and I'll quickly brief my colleagues on it. Item number 25 is an item directing the city clerk, in collaboration with the city attorney's office, to formulate a plan and recommendation to update the Minneapolis Code of Ordinances to whenever possible remove gender-specific references in the code. Item 26 is a resolution calling on the state legislature to amend Minnesota statutes to successfully authorize municipalities to enact building standards to provide equal access to restroom facilities and places of public accommodation or gender regardless of gender identity. And item 27 is a legislative directive regarding gender-neutral restroom access incentivization efforts and opportunities um from asking an update on this from the mayor's administration that myself, Council member Chughtai, and Council member Chavez are authoring. Happy to have answer any questions that folks may have. Otherwise, I'll move these for approval. If I can get a second. >> Second. >> All right. All those in favor, say I. >> I. >> All those opposed, say nay. Any abstentions? Okay, and then we'll move quickly onto the next items that I will just want to move forward with approval. If folks have questions or discussions, we can have it, but item 28 is regarding a contract amendment with SoundThinking, the gunshot location system. Uh we know that this was initially brought as a three-year contract, and some of us on the council requested a one-year contract instead, so we can get the study from the auditor that's coming this August. >> Uh Chair Chavez, I'd like to move 28 uh with out approval, if there's a second for that. >> Can we have that conversation separately? Like I I just want to be able to move this forward with recommendation today and have a conversation about that later. I kind of want >> like I'd like to actually vote to move it without approval. Or without recommendation. >> Councilmember Vida. >> Yeah, I I mean, I don't know why we would be doing that when we had a conversation about um having a one-year contract as an approval. So, to move it forward without recommendation, I'm I'm not understanding what's the purpose of that when staff um actually did what we asked and now they're back with the contract for 1 year. >> So, I already had a made a motion to move it without recommendation. >> Second. >> All right. Councilmember Widen. >> Um oops. Thank you, Chair Chavez. Uh just a quick note here looking at the the RCA. Um wanted to be sure I was reading this correctly. I'm seeing the kind of the strike throughs from the previous RCA. Um where we were kind of amending it to the one-year extension. Um it looks like based on the fiscal kind of updates from from the budgetary perspective, I am noticing that there's still a reference to uh a request for a 3-year extension. I don't know if that is required or if we are doing it for just I'm assuming just for for this one-year extension. >> I voted for the recommendation. With >> Uh Chair and Councilmember, what we have in front of you right now is the one-year contract um extension along with the expansion side of things. >> Okay, perfect. And I think it my my assumption then is it probably just needs to be updated to to note uh it still says 3-year extension um on the last page right before Enterprise Review. If you go up and look there through the kind of strike throughs right there, you'll see March 21, 2027, but then the preceding language says our requesting a 3-year extension through March 21, 2027. >> That can be Excuse me, that can be easily corrected. It's for 1 year. >> Cool. Perfect. Thank you for clarifying. Appreciate it. Um and then just maybe a question for Chair Chavez here. There is I think the right I'm still kind of confused on the process. There was an audit kind of going on about this this technology. What Where is that in the ethos of of what's happening? >> Yeah, so there's an audit through the auditor that is going to have this audit ready regarding many other stuff, but on top of believe Shot Spotter that's coming. We'll have information on that in August. So, yeah. That's all I know. >> Okay. And then Uh so then awesome. I have a [laughter] question. Um it sounds like there I'm trying to remember from back when this first came up in front of us that there has been an agreement kind of made or at least they're holding on to this contract until that audit exists. They're kind of just like Was there an agreement that it sounds like that we are off the books with this at the moment. Um and then this would just be updating it through March of next year, but not necessarily until that the uh more in-depth audit. >> Chair, Council Member, that is correct. Right now Shot Spotter is working with us so that way we don't have a loss of service while we work through the process with you. >> Okay. And then is that I guess the the working with with MPD on this is that Is there an understanding of through when this will kind of I guess is there a date in which the Shot Spotter is is working with MPD on this before they need like an an absolute kind of a extension to the contract. >> We're at that chair council member we're at that point already. They've extended quite a bit. I don't think we can ask any more from them. >> Okay, that's helpful to know. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Council member Vitu. >> Thank you chair Chavez. Council member Whiting they This is a contract that ended already. They've extended it for us over this period of time so that we did not lose the coverage. What they brought before us the last time was a contract not only um for 3 years for the coverage we had but also to extend the coverage area. Some council members asked for them to go back and give us a 1-year to wait on this audit report that we're going to get in August. ShotSpotter has always been um challenging for some council members and so it it seems that they want an audit of the the actual technology to see the value or not or whatever. So we'll get the report back and I think folks want to be able to make a decision after the audit report comes back on ShotSpotter. And I think the goal would be if it's useful we'll vote for it for the extension of the proposed contract for 3 years. I don't know a world without it. So I hope that if if it is going to change people have um other things to bring to the table instead of ShotSpotter. But for now it is to cover for this year and they've they've been more than gracious in giving us a lot of time on this contract right now. >> Perfect. Thank you. Council member Vitu. >> All right, I see no one else on queue. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Those opposed say nay. Any abstentions? Okay. >> Thank you. >> Um Next up we have item number 29 a contract with emergency management Services International International for after action services. And colleagues, I wonder if you all read the RCA and already just move it forward or if you need this presentation quickly. >> I put it on discussion. Can I just say it quickly? >> Huh? >> I put it on discussion. Can I just say it quickly? >> Yeah. So, I put this on discussion in the agenda setting because I thought other council members would want to know that this there was not funding as far as I understand for an after action review. I particularly thought council member Rainville would want to know that. So, I'll have to tell him tomorrow about this. But that we can just move this on without discussing it, but I just thought that council members would want to know that currently there is not an after action review happening to my understanding because there's not money for it. >> Would anybody like to make any other comments? All right. See you know for discussion. I'll make a motion to approve this item. And on that motion, all those in favor say I. Those opposed say nay. Abstentions? All right. Thank you. And then now the next item is number 30, which is the Youth Coordinating Board Executive Director. And to begin their presentation. And want to talk about item number I'm trying to see in the meantime if item number 32 or C-PED staff if they can communicate with our clerks in my office if they're willing to delay this a cycle just cuz of the timeline. But we'll begin with you, director. >> We have a PowerPoint. I don't know if somebody can help me bring that up. >> I have a flash drive if you need that. >> Great. Thank you. Well, hi everybody. I know you've had a long afternoon and I I you waiting for us. I'm here with two of my colleagues. I'll introduce them in a minute, but as you know, I'm Amanda Green, I'm executive director of the Minneapolis Youth Coordinating Board. Um just to let you know, we've been around for 40 years. And we work together with the county, the parks, the schools, and the city on behalf of our children and young people. And before I say too much, I want to show you a little snapchat snapshot of our children in young people in Minneapolis. 20% of the residents of Minneapolis are under the age of 18. About a third of those are little little kids. Uh they all have parents. So when we're talking about kids, they're connected to parents. So we're talking about young people, children, and their families. So it's a big group of people, our constituents, because we consider their parents also to be our our constituents. We recently completed a theory of change, and I'd like to thank Council Member Chavez, Council Member Whiting, who are both on our board of directors. Council Member Whiting is our current board chair. And they've seen our whole theory of change, which I could go through with you, but we would be here about an hour just looking at that. So we're not going to do that. Um but I just want you to know that our headline or our theory of change is that if the YCB aligns powerful institutions, equips influential adults like you, elevates youth power, and drives decisions with shared data, then system-wide practices change, resources flow to what works, and youth outcomes improve equitably. So that is what we are after at the Youth Coordinating Board. That is what we are That is our main thing we are working on, all those things to happen. We operate with several core assumptions, and I want to highlight three things in this uh to you. One is that we work collectively, so or collaboratively. We work with our other jurisdictions, and we work to help them achieve their goals for children and young people. And we work primarily with adults who work with children and young people to help them to achieve their goals. We also work on prevention. A lot of times in government, we work to solve problems that are already happening. We work on the prevention end of things. That we think is very important. And um and it is something that we have seen tremendous results with. But the most important thing I want to highlight today because I'm going to bring up some of my colleagues to talk about this is that it is extremely important for us to make sure our children and young people are centered in decision-making. We listen to what they have to tell us. They have a tremendous amount to say. And we understand that what they have to say, their perspectives, are critical to the decisions that we make. So, in that uh in that area, I'm going to skip ahead a minute here. In 2007, the the Minneapolis Youth Coordinating Board created something called the Minneapolis Youth Congress. And the Minneapolis Youth Congress actually was created by uh an adult youth partnership. Our young people were out talking to other young people, talking to other adults, and they came back and worked with our board and decided we needed a place, a formal place for young people to work with adults to make sure youth perspectives were represented in our work. And the vision, as you can see, is that the Minneapolis Youth Congress is a representative body of youth that has authentic power and influence in decisions and policies relevant to youth and that works in collaboration with the elected officials focusing on a common understanding of the welfare of the youth in Minneapolis. Their motto is no decision about us without us and we take it very very seriously. The Youth Congress is a group of young people grades 8 through 12. We pay them. We feed them. They're hungry when they come to us. We transport them. We train them. And we make sure that they have adults who work with them who know how to work with young people. They divide into five committees. They meet four times a month on Thursday nights over at the library and they've met there ever since 2007. And they work very hard in a couple of different ways. One is sometimes adults working on projects in our different jurisdictions come to them and say, "We're working on this. Can you help us think through what you your ideas are about this?" And sometimes they work more on a regular basis on topics, but sometimes they have ideas about things and they work on topics themselves. For example, they worked on for 2 years, they tested out school bus cards with, you know, when we went from yellow buses in schools and high schools to uh city bus passes, they tested that out for 2 years. That was their project. They also did a project on sex trafficking a number of years ago. Uh they worked on tobacco with Council Member Vita when she was at Northpoint. So, they've done a lot of projects on their own as well. But, this is this they are invaluable to us. A number of years ago, we did a youth master plan and they worked on it with us. They did 13 um they did 13 ward meetings with council members. And they came back to us and we revised the master plan because they found things we did not see. Because from their perspective, there were things that we missed. So, we are grateful to them and happy to have them. So, today, I'm really happy to introduce you to two of our youth council coordinators who could be with us. Mark Woods who is a long-term youth council coordinator and Salim [snorts] Ali who is an alum of the Youth Congress and is now one of our coordinators. So, I'd like them to ask them come forward. They're going to introduce themselves to you and tell you a little bit I've asked them to talk a little bit too about what they know young people are saying, what kinds of things that they want you to have on their radar. Okay? >> I love that. >> So, thank you, Council member Chavez and members of the committee for asking us to be here. >> Yes. Welcome. >> Thank you, Chair Chavez and the committee. Um as Anne stated, uh my name is Mark Woods. I am our senior youth development specialist as well as our health committee coordinator. Um I have worked with several different outlets of our organization, uh such as outreach, um and over a decade with our Youth Congress. Today, we will be doing our elevator speeches, which is common practice for our young people, as well as going through youth experiences, um items on the agenda that young people have thought were important that decision-makers like yourself should know about, following with what um recommendations or partnerships engagement that we could uh propose to City Council as well. So, at this time, I will pass it off to Saleem uh to start our elevator speeches. >> Welcome. >> Thank you. >> Hello. My name is Saleem Ali. I am 19 years old and I've been a part of Minneapolis Youth Congress for 3 years, and I'm currently a student at the University of Minnesota. Three things I'm passionate about are the environment, transportation, and third spaces. And one thing that I bring to the table that adults don't is being a sponge for other people's perspectives and opinions. >> Again, Mark Woods, our youth development specialist, uh as well as health committee coordinator. >> Three things I'm passionate about are setting young people up for success, not failure, culture, as well as education. One thing I bring to the table that our youth may not is over 20 years of experience. Um at this time, again, uh Saleem will be giving some examples of his experiences with Youth Congress as he is representing our entire student body, um as well as some of the lessons or outcomes that he has first-hand been able to experience due to such. >> Hello, and thank you guys for having us. Um I've been a part of Minneapolis Youth Congress since I was 16 years old, and it has helped me grow both personally and professionally. It has helped me grow within some skills like facilitating, public speaking, and today I'm going to talk about some moments and experiences that have been highlights for me through these past 3 years. The first thing that I will mention is the Community and Connections Conference in 2024. Myself and other youth a part of MYC were able to facilitate conversations between city stakeholders. And while this was nerve-wracking for myself, through support and practice, I was able to go up there and lead a conversation. I led a conversation with many community leaders including Chairman Chavez, and it was very fulfilling for myself because I was able to feel like I was a part of the table while leading the conversation and hearing all of the important all of the people's opinions and perspectives. And it was just inspiring for myself. The next issue that the next uh memorable moment for myself was the Minnesota Research Justice Center's event uh Reimagining Justice Conference, which I was able to attend because of Minneapolis Youth Congress. At this event, I heard many community leaders speak about their experiences through the power of storytelling. And I felt very emotionally attached and like I just had a strong emotional reaction because of their storytelling. And what that did for me was it helped me understand their perspective and bridge the gap of understanding. The last experience that I'll talk about is the rig uh additional meeting for MYC where I was able to get some additional training for being able to facilitate. At this meeting, I watched a disagreement between two members about whether societal uh standards are agreed upon or not. At this meeting, I was able to watch them clash and their opinions clash while they were still able to hold a civil conversation. And for me, this was very impactful because I learned that while people may disagree, they still are able to come together and be respectful of each other. Through these moments and many others, I've been able to grow as a person and I hope that many youth after myself are able to have similar and new experiences in Minneapolis Youth Congress. Thank you. >> Clap once for the mic. >> So, I just want to say thank you again to uh Chair Chavez as well as the rest of the committee for allowing this opportunity as this is an example of real time where our young people get to experience things that most will never uh be able to do or do not even know about. Um to make sure that we are relative of time, I will jump directly into it. Uh my background of being within education um as well as after-school programs such as beacons and being able to connect young people to not only employment through MYC, but also these experiences. Uh my goal being to have transformative skill sets that are not only implied within school and education, but a place to practice them and push through. I will be giving direct feedback that I have gained from these young people. These are not my words. I am simply the messenger today uh as my professional uh, accolades and background hold no weight on what I'm about to present. Um, some of the issues that young people have brought up, not to dismiss things such as our environmental um, and water safety, not to dismiss um, high housing crisis and issues, not to dismiss any other things that our five committees cover on a regular basis. Uh, the focal point being right now is uh, safety. Um, safety is bigger than physical safety. Youth want to feel safe in neighborhoods, schools, parks, and public spaces. Concerns about violence, bullying, harassment, and unpredictable environments, feeling unsafe limits their participation in community life. Uh, right now we are uh, partnering with the park board and holding a third-party space at North Commons in which some of the feedback is, "I can't go there." And so making sure that we again are opening the door for multiple, not just uh, at individual parks, has been a concern that young people are wanting to participate but not feeling like um, us as a society have created the environment where they feel comfortable joining. This also goes with emotional safety. Youth need spaces where they can express themselves without fear of judgment. Fear of being misunderstood, dismissed, or labeled. I think being present today has uh, been a display of that not being addressed and also trickling to our adult um, community as well. Many young people report feeling isolated despite being constantly connected online or even within their school spaces where there are several people around them. But again still feeling isolated. My key point is safety is not just the absence of danger as well as safety is the presence of trust, belonging, and support. >> [snorts] >> The need for the third uh safe spaces, the third-party spaces. Um the definition of first space being home we have learned that not all young people feel safe at home. We have students who are HHM often sharing spaces with siblings, other relatives, um not having a space of their own to really decompress or process their day. Our second space being work or school. Although safe spaces, work and school often hold high expectations of constantly having to be productive. Whereas third-party spaces again allow them to just exist. As well as belong. The youth feedback is the desire for spaces that are not heavily structured. Places where they can gather without being viewed as a problem. Again, I think the stigma of young people is that if they are not doing something proactive, they are doing something negative. Um I think that that I want to be careful with my words. That demonization of young people is something that they hold personal. Opportunities to build friendships and community naturally. Now although they have friends at school, we place students in school based on their age um as well as their area of residence. And so, to be able to connect with young people throughout the city, I believe MYC is an example of being able to have those students come from all demographics as well as uh 8th through 12th grade, giving different perspectives and narratives, helping them be a more rounded uh individual as they develop. Uh again, my key point youth need spaces where they are welcomed, not merely tolerated. Guidance from trusted adults. Youth are saying they need adults that they can trust. They want guidance, not control. This generation does not respect uh positional power. They feel that that is uh kind of a dictatorship instead of an active engagement and part uh leadership. Um which is why we at Youth Congress make sure that we actively engage our youth. We do you um projects with them. Again, having Saleem with at this point um putting the ball in his court and again being able to practice the skill set, but also having us be able to model. They want adults who listen before advising. The challenge being many adults assume young people have a support system or access to trusted mentorship. Being consistent. There are often times young people have these things, but again, consistency based on our societal need for our economy, um job, work, being busy takes away from young people, whereas young people are left to uh essentially raise themselves or develop on their own. One caring adult can significantly change a young person's trajectory. Um my observation of lack of authentic connection, youth are surrounded by communication but often experience limited connection. Relationships can feel transactional or superficial. Many young people struggle struggle to find meaningful uh relationships. Human connection is not a luxury. It is a developmental necessity. I believe the underlying issue is implied understanding without depth. My observation is adults often believe they understand youth because they were once young. Youth often believe adults cannot understand because times have changed. The result is assumptions replace conversations. Decisions are made without direct understanding. I think you guys have done a great job of modeling that today, questioning and challenging each other and even tabling things to make sure that you are doing your proper research. Uh the key point is understanding requires ongoing engagement, not past experience. The issues youth identified all point towards one common need, genuine human connection and meaningful engagement. Which brings us to the final question, which is how can city council engage and work with youth? The answer is engage. Not occasionally, not symbolically, consistently and authentically. I think uh uh Seline being able to remember a moment with uh Chair Chavez is a direct example of this, as well as I want to give credit to uh Councilman Whiting who actually participated in this past year's oath of office as our young people are sworn in um as official members within the Youth Congress. Create opportunities for conversation, suggestions, our regular youth listening sessions, community forums designed for youth participation, informed opportunities to interact with decision-makers. In the past, we have done things such as the Youth Chief Summit where we ask our police officers in chief to drop their privilege and show up to answer community questions and build rapport with young people on a human level instead of the positional power level and authority of being officers. Due to our climate, that has not happened in quite some time, but I I look for things like that to be brought back, so again, that we can repair as well as have those conversations with our young people and rebuild trust in government as well as process. Engagement should not begin after decisions are made. Engagement should help shape the decision. Investing in mentorship. Why does this matter? Youth do not know what they don't know. Exposure creates opportunity, res- relationships create growth. Um KRS-One, the legendary hip-hop uh artist, stated that young people who spend time around older people tend to advance faster amongst their peers or younger people. Whereas older people who spend time around younger people tend to advance faster amongst their peers of older people. I believe I am a testament of that as I often am able to translate uh things that our older generation does not know. Uh young people change their language almost on a daily. If we think of things like AAVE, you might say one word and it means an entirely different thing to the young people. Um if we get into the technicality, even legalese, how something is written versus how is upheld, these type of things matter, especially when we place the expectation on young people to understand while also contributing. In application, both generations benefit. Mentorship is not a one-way exchange. It is mutual learning. Again, I have learned so much from the young people I service, and I hope and I've gotten my flowers that that is also reciprocated. Being authentic and transparent. Young people recognize when information is filtered or oversimplified. They already encounter complex realities through school, social media, and everyday life. Being at the center of Minneapolis, uh the ICE raids that hit Roosevelt and other things within our community, I think young people almost feel uh again, for lack of better terms, like we're playing in their face when we try to shelter them from things that they are already exposed to. And so, [snorts] making sure that we are transparent and actually explaining things and opening dialogue for tough conversations, giving the them the ability to prepare as well as respond with action. Our request are again, speak honestly, explain decisions openly, and invite questions. Transparency builds trust, trust creates participation, influence before expecting impact. Alan Watts once said that the first responsibility of an educator is to gain influence, and we are competing against so much these days. As my time as a teacher, I asked my students how come sometimes they don't listen to me even when they trust me and have shown that my tutelage real time is being honest, and they said, "We don't know." I asked if Anthony Edwards came in here and said the exact same thing, would you listen to him or would you listen to me even though you see me every day?" Their answer was "Anthony Edwards, of course." Influence comes comes through relationship. People learn from those they trust. Youth are more likely to engage when they feel respected and heard. So, spending time with youth directly, um community feedback cannot be fully gathered from reports, statistics, or assumptions. Relationships provide context that data alone cannot. So, just to reframe, not that you guys haven't already done so, but our request is that you attend youth events, visit community spacings spaces, listen more than speak, and build familiarity before seeking solutions. In closing, I will do one reference from John Trudeau. We are living in a world that is great gradually losing its understanding of what it means to be human. And I do not want that for our future, and they have expressed that that is something that they do not want. Systems do not override humanity. The requests we heard are fundamentally human requests: safety, belonging, guidance, and connection. My final message, youth are not asking simply for more services, they are asking for more relationships. They are asking to be seen, heard, and engaged as members of the community. If we want youth to invest in the future of our city, we must first invest our time, presence, and attention to them today. Again, I thank you guys for listening and I appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> At this time, do you guys have any questions? >> Yep, I'll ask my colleagues if they have any questions. I I want to start off by saying thank you all for being here. Thank you Director Group for all you do for our youth in our city. Thank you both for being here today for your work that you do and for the work that you do in the Congress. Uh it is a really important work that needs to be acknowledged and is acknowledged by our city enterprise. So, just a very appreciative of the work that you all do and very thankful that we were able to hear from you today in this incredible presentation. I'll next pass it to Councilmember Vita. >> Thank you, Chair Chavez. I also wanted to just say thank you so much for um the continued work not only on the Youth Coordinating Board but the Youth Congress. I will say though, I'd love to see more policy ideas come before this council. That's something I worked on for years with the Youth Congress. Uh very solid policy that youth wanted and they did a lot of work at that time with elected officials at the local and state level to make sure uh public health policy was passed. So, I would certainly love not only to champion but to have questions with youth about policy ideas. >> Councilmember Witing. >> Yep, thank you uh Chair Chavez. Fully agree uh with Councilmember Vita on that as well. Uh right, tell us what we don't know. I think you're exactly right. Right, we we are not youth anymore as much as I would like to think so. And then again, just a deep level of gratitude for all of your work. And Saleem, I would take a moment to kind of as you kind of walk around in here, right, you are the youngest person in this in this chambers at the moment. And that is not a small feat. And so I appreciate your your perspectives and your youth and it should be seen as as an accomplishment. So thank you. >> Council President Payne. Thank you, Chair Chavez. I actually get feedback from other boards and commissions hoping to get more youth voice involved in their policy areas. And I'm I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on how we could better integrate youth voice into kind of the broader policy making sphere. >> Yes, we have actually been a part of policy making. Um one in the past that is still continuing was the cake, the cannabis awareness. The struggle being we do not want to expose underage young people to something that is 21 plus, but also not lose equity. In the past our young people have also been on youth on boards where they connect with boards and actually again give their voice directly. My push is that I train them to be junior consultants. I do not teach them what to think. I just challenge their thoughts so that they think of the entire spectrum as a whole. Again, community conversations as well as making sure that the support comes from their experience and exposure so that things like writing scholarships or Excuse me, letters of recommendation are also a part of their experience. And so we we have these things. Again, it's not that it's not happening. I just believe that we still need more. Um Saleem, did you >> Um something to add to that would be um, when feedback is received from youth that there is consistent and constant showing of that feedback being received and showing where that feedback is being placed. Often when youth from my experience have reached out or communicated their opinions, the feedback is taken and used performatively and then not actually implemented into the creation or the ideas that are used eventually. >> Really good point of feedback. So, happy to try to make sure that we're empowering that voice more thoroughly. >> Yep, and then we'll be happy the youth y'all have variety of different ideas and policies already that you recommend. Maybe it'd be good to invite y'all as youth to come and just present those to council. That'll be I think a good opportunity to hear those. Um, myself included, I would love to hear more about them. >> Co- chairperson and members of the community, too, I would like to invite you to come to these congress at some point. We can arrange for that, any of you individually or as a group. You can just talk to me and I will talk with LaToya and we'll schedule you in. We would love for you to come meet there. And uh, I know that they would love to meet you. They uh, they have lots of guests and they would love to have you as their guest. I'm certain that's true. Um, so just keep that as an open invitation. They seat a new cohort in October and they meet through the school year, you can imagine. We do have some young people who continue through the summer. But really their active time is October through about mid-June. Tomorrow night, we're having a little party for the graduates. Um, so that's kind of their year. >> Cool. Councilmember Whiting and then we'll go on to the next thing. >> Yes, and I was going to say I'm going to need one of these one of these hoodies. So, if you can make sure >> [laughter] >> I can find a link to find one of one of where these hoodies are at. So, appreciate it. >> Thank you so much. Yeah. >> Uh Excuse me, Councilman Whiting, these hoodies were actually made at the Teen Tech Center. Um these logos were designed by a former MYC member, Elise Legler, after uh the George Floyd incident. And so, if you would like one, we have the print uh vinyl. Please stop by. We could even make it an activity. The goal is to have us drop our cools, embrace our inner child. Um I appreciate the decorum. We have to have balance, but to also just have fun and enjoy each other in our space. So, thank you again. >> Beautiful. Thank you. Colleagues, all right. Thank you so much for the presentation. Honestly, really good to have y'all here. Um even if we're here at 5:00 p.m., I think it's really important that we hear from our youth. I would love to come as well and hear from the youth directly about their policy priorities. All right, colleagues, with that, seeing no further discussion, I'll ask the clerk to receive and file that report. Next up, we have item number 31. It's our Environmental Services Annual Report. This is the last presentation we're going to have. As staff comes up here and gets ready to report on this last report, I want to make sure that we uh finish item number 32, which is just a receive and file, colleagues. Before you present directly, Director Momen, I want to make sure that item number 32, which is Senior Resident Housing Stability, uh gets received and filed. So, colleagues, without objection, I'll ask the clerk to receive and file that report. Any objections? Great. We've been dispensed. Now, you have the floor, Director Momen. >> Good afternoon, Chair Chavez and council members. Thanks for staying this long. I know I am between you and the rest of your evening, so I will try to keep this pretty quick. Um I just appreciate the opportunity to have a few moments before you today to really brag about the work that um our team has been doing in Environmental Services. So, my name is Kelly Muellman. I'm the director of environmental programs in the Minneapolis Health Department. I'm here today to present on the work of environmental services inspections team within the environmental programs unit. So, just context of where we sit within the organizational structure of the Health Department. We all report up to the Commissioner Damone Chaplin. We are within the division of sustainability, healthy homes, and environment. And then within the environmental programs unit. Deputy Commissioner Patrick Hanlon oversees the division. And one of the things that he often says is this work is the operations arm of our environmental work. So, the environmental services team is located within the environmental programs unit. In the past couple years, you've heard presentations on the pollution control annual registration. Later this summer, you'll get presentations on the city trees and biochar programs. The environmental services permits and inspections team is some of the core work of the unit, but doesn't often get presentations in front of the council. Our team includes four environmental inspectors that each oversee a quadrant of the city. We will have four inspectors through the end of 2026. We'll actually go down to three inspectors and redistribute to three districts starting in 2027. The inspections team is supported also by an environmental engineer, a senior environmental project manager, our P-CAR program coordinator. We have summer environmental technicians, one of whom has joined me today, and the environmental health permits team. The unit issues, inspects, and enforces on a number of different permit types. So, I'm going to go over each of these very briefly. Sediment is the number one pollutant of our water bodies by volume and construction projects are the number one source. Sediment itself and the chemicals it can carry harm the streams, rivers, and lakes that we swim, fish, and recreate in. Um so as a result, um erosion and sediment control is uh one of our biggest scopes of work within the inspections team. Um CPED actually issues the permits for erosion sediment control for all wrecking and construction projects that disturb more than 500 square feet um of land um and enforcing uh the erosion and sediment control permits and work um is one of the requirements of our municipal separate storm sewer system permit. Say that 10 times fast um from the MPCA. Erosion and sediment control is our third largest permit by volume um and requires the greatest amount of inspections and enforcement time from our staff. Along with sediment pollution, the environmental inspections team also enforces construction sites hours of operation um and the health department issues permits for work outside of the allowed hours 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Let us know if you have contractors that aren't complying. Many of you are also familiar with uh noise complaints from local bars, restaurants, or music venues. These all come to our environmental inspectors who can verify if a business or resident um has an amplified sound permit, they can take sound measurements with the equipment that we have and ensure that facilities are operating with within allowed decibel limits. Um in recent years um we've also brought more amplified sound permits uh requesting to go past past 10:00 p.m. to you all um and that is to uh ensure that you know um that those events are happening and you can approve them cuz you're going to hear about them from your constituents. Um we work very closely with CPED business licensing on noise violations. Um, this information is shared with them um, and it may impact a business's entertainment license. Inspectors from CPED's business licensing team may also join environmental inspectors for late night sound monitoring um, and our teams jointly enforce to obtain compliance. Uh, a little known area of work is tanks and wells. Um, inspections or tanks uh, permits are required for the removal, abandonment, and installation of underground tanks and above ground storage tanks 200 gallons or larger um, and permanent propane tanks 200 pounds and larger. Inspections are performed on all of these tank removals um, to ensure that work is completed uh, and done in a professional manner manner that complies with state and local code. Um, there are also well construction, sealing, and maintenance um, permits. Um, this is delegated work through the Minnesota Department of Health and has been since 1991. Um, about 25% of well construction and 10% of well ceilings are inspected to ensure compliance. Temporary water discharge permit is required for all discharges of water to Minneapolis sanitary or storm sewer system. Um, and these uh, activities are also inspected by our inspections team. This is typically ground water, storm water, snow melt that has entered into a construction site excavation area and needs to be pumped out to continue work. So, we make sure that none of the sediment is carried with that water into our storm sewer system. There are also abrasive blasting permits. Um, this is a method of removing paint, rust, grease, and debris to prepare a surface for painting or sealing. Um, we partner with the uh, lead team on this because all surfaces are tested for lead uh, prior to an abrasive blasting permit being issued. Um, if there is lead-based paint present, then there is additional containment of the structure, negative air pressure systems, um, required to uh, protect that area. Um, additionally, there is intense monitoring by the lead team staff, uh, for those to make sure there's climate compliance with hazard mitigation and cleaning practices. Um, these are the fun numbers that I'm excited to share. In 2025, these are the number of permits that were issued and the total revenue that was brought into the city through these permits. Um, you can see that erosion control, after-hours construction, and amplified sound permits are the most common and bring in the most revenue. Um, in 2027, we'll also be standing up an industrial stormwater program. This is a new requirement through our MS4 permit, uh, with the state. They're requiring both the city of Minneapolis and St. Paul to do this. Um, Public Works Surface Water and Sewers is leading the development with sup- of this program with support from some some consultants. Um, we will have to create a new permit, uh, to generate revenue to support the implementation of this program. So, you'll be hearing more from us on that. Um, and then the last couple slides I have are just going over some of our common service requests. So, environmental inspectors spend a significant amount of their hours responding to service requests that come in via 311 and council offices. Um, so here is a list on this slide of the most common ones. Inspectors are truly committed to approaching their public service role with equity and environmental justice at the forefront. Inspectors lead with education and mediation. Our goal is to solve the problem, not issue citations. Um, I also want to say, uh, as I mentioned in a couple previous slides, that we do a lot of collaboration with other departments. So, we work with Reg Services, Housing Inspectors, and the Homeless Response Team on, uh, rental conditions that might interact with both of our departments on idling or generator complaints. We work with public works on sediment pollution, on oil spills, on discharge permits as well. We work with the planning department business licensing as I mentioned on noise pollution. We work with zoning with Minneapolis development room review and building inspections on different construction site issues, industrial complaints and others. We've recently taken over the hazard tree work from regulatory services so that all tree work happens within the health department within the same unit so that we can have really positive experience with staff with training on tree identification and also connect those hazard trees to our condemned tree assistance program so that residents who income qualify can actually have that hazard tree removed completely for free. And then trees used to replace it. I mentioned our collaboration with the lead team on abrasive blasting. So again, a lot of collaboration from our team. Also mentioned that some of these frequently occurring issues may ultimately lead us to make ordinance amendments and bring those before you all here in council or create new programs. So I might want to mention a couple items that will be coming forward to you later this year. One is we're doing a repeal and replace of chapter 389 our noise ordinance. And that is really just to clean up and remove some outdated language, some conflicting language, make it flow better, kind of modernize it. We're also been we've also been working on a small ordinance around generators as that has been a growing issue of complaints both around air quality and noise within the city of Minneapolis. And And both residential and commercial properties. So these are the numbers of service requests. This information is just pulled from 311. This does not include all the additional service requests that we may have received through your offices or individuals reaching out directly to our office. So you can see by numbers noise pollution is certainly the largest area of complaints that we receive as then followed by land pollution with a lot around dumping. And finally I want to wrap up just noting the other source of revenue from the environmental inspections team citations. As I mentioned we don't like to issue citations but it can be an effective way to obtain compliance especially with problem contractors on construction sites. And you'll note the increase in citation revenue we've had in the last couple years when we've been operating with a full team of four inspectors. So with that I want to thank you for your time wrap up and I'm happy to stand for questions. >> Thank you director moment for the presentation and for all the work that you do along with our staff. I'll see if any of my colleagues have any questions. No I I will have a question. I just want would want to know and it won't be for today maybe we can talk over email about the impact of going down to I think three inspectors and what that would mean for service level but we don't have to talk about that today. I'll probably reach out just for a meeting just cuz I would hate for that to have a detrimental impact so. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. All right colleagues thank you so much and I would recommend that if folks have any questions just follow up over email. I know that we felt a little rushed today so I apologize on that and I apologize to your staff. So all right colleagues seeing no further discussion I'll ask the clerk to file that report and seeing no further business before us because I already received and filed the other one. I will uh uh declare this meeting adjourned.