Good morning. Welcome to the adjourned meeting of the super committee of the whole part two. My name is Orin Chowry. I'm the chair of this committee. This is a continuation of yesterday's committee. The committee of the whole took up most of the agenda, but we did not complete several items on the discussion agenda. We completed all of the consent agenda, all of the public and quasi judicial hearings, and one presentation was received and filed from Henipin County Attorney Mary Morardi. All items considered yesterday and today will be forwarded to the full city council for its consideration at the meeting this Thursday, March 5th, at 9:30 a.m. As usual, these meetings are broadcast live and livereamed from our public access channels and the city's website to enhance public accessibility. With that, I will call this meeting to order and ask the clerk to call the role to verify a quorum. present. >> Apologies. Um, and start over. Councelor, >> just start with Rainville. >> Council member Rainville is absent. Rita, >> present. Warren >> present. >> Osman is absent. Schaefer >> present. >> Stevenson. >> Stevenson >> present. >> Chavez >> present. >> Whiting >> present. >> Palmo is absent. Chuktai. >> Vice President Chuktai is absent. >> Chair Chowry >> present. >> We have nine present. Let the record reflect that we have a quorum. Before beginning the meeting, let me offer a friendly reminder to everyone that these meetings are broadcast live to enable greater public presentation. The broadcasts include real-time captioning to increase accessibility for the entire community. So, it's important that all speakers be mindful of the rate of their speech so that our captioners can fully capture and transcribe all comments for the broadcast. We ask all speakers to please moderate the speed and clarity of their speech and their comments. Like I stated before, yesterday we worked through a majority of our agenda and now remain with four items. First, we have a staff direction that's from council members and Whiting. Council member Whiting, would you please introduce this item and move approval? >> Thank you, Chair Chowry. And I might need some specifics from our clerks over here how to move it. Just kind of move it forward to be accepted. >> Yes. And then we'll speak to it. >> Perfect. I am happy to speak to some of the questions here. And I know we have uh Andrew I believe >> probably director Hawkins somewhere to also uh I think for questions as well, but I'm happy to kind of speak to it. This is a just a legislative directive to kind of undertake some of the research and analysis uh particularly to um best practices and training uh facilities across the country. Um and so it looks like director Hawkins is here to speak to it. Um and so >> before we have them >> Yeah. >> you want to say I want a motion for approval. >> I would like to make an I would like to move for approval of this item >> and then I will second it. >> Thank you so much. >> Yes. Great. Director Hawkins, would you like to come and speak to this? >> Uh, good morning, Chair Chukai. I'm sorry, Church, Vice Chair Shukai. There we go. Good start. Um, it was a long day yesterday and, um, happy to be here this morning. Um, if I could speak to this just briefly. So, this is a staff direction as we received from this body. Um the idea behind this one was that obviously the administration is bringing forward um some in the coming weeks um some some information to council to consider about potential location and construction of a public safety training facility. Um the focus of the administration is going to be primarily on you know what that facility looks like here, what we want to do here, um what the city is pursuing. Um our goal with this is to kind of work as a parallel to that. um to provide some additional information as far as what's being done nationally um what's being done in other locations, what are best practices for trainings um from comparable cities, comparable facilities, uh comparable departments um and so that we have that information um essentially benchmark kind of what we're doing and make sure that there's alignment um and that you know that we're pursuing all potential options that are out there. Um, I also think that uh the timing of this one, if we do it as a policy briefing, would allow us to bring the information back fairly quickly. Um, so that council has that in time to consider what's being brought before them um by the end of the month in the next coming weeks. Um, but then it also sets up a longer term um I think kind of again not parallel tracks, they're related, but um providing additional information as we you know in the event that we do move forward down this path. Um so uh if something does if something does pass and this advances um as we continue that discussion into the future, it allows us to continue doing that kind of research on a parallel track to make sure that we're considering all potential options and evaluating um you know what we're doing in comparison with best practices and standards of comparable jurisdictions. >> Great. Thank you. And I will also note for the record that Vice Chair Chugai has joined the meeting. Um colleagues, is there any discussion? First, I'll recognize Council Member Wanley. >> Thank you, Chair Chowry. Um I will note that the staff direction is a bit hard for me to support because for uh the last three years and over multiple times, uh my office and I know a number of my colleagues who've been here um have tried to work with the FRI administration to get additional information regarding our public safety plans. Also, director Hop, you can there's no questions to you. Um, and more specifically, I wrote a legislative directive about three years ago in 2023 asking very specific questions about plans regarding public safety workforce size anticipations and ways in which we were looking at um not just beefing up MPD staff. That's always a predominant point of conversation. But as we're embracing um the safe and thriving communities uh plan, that means we have all these other alternative safety services and work forces that we need to be looking at scaling up and what are our plans to do that and how do do they relate to one another. Um I also asked about specific details regarding um how we're mapping out our programs and services as it relates to uh safety services and again to our facility needs. We have long had this conversation for three plus years around not only MPD's uh facility needs but because we have violence interrupterss, we have prevention uh or violence prevention um services and contractors out in the field. what are we doing to provide space for them? That said, for three years, those legislative directives that I brought forward were never answered by the administration. In fact, just last cycle, this council approved continuing one of those motions as it related to um our capital um safety projects because the administration failed to present answers to uh crucial questions that we've been asking um asking about and asking for thorough plans and and elaborations on for again nearly three years. I also want to highlight even in prior budget cycles in consultation with our capital loan range improvement um committee that has also asked the administration for several years now and it's documented in their own reports please provide a plan um actually hire a consultant um to present said plan around what these public safety capital projects you're requesting actually how do they relate to your overall vision and plans for public safety and in consulting with our own click um boards and members. I even tried to work with the administration around bringing a budget amendment forward to do exactly that to hire a consultant um that could give us a thorough and independent analysis of of what we could be doing in a more thoughtful way before just rushing into a multi-million dollar purchase. Um we were told by the administration in response to that budget amendment that it was not needed. um Ashley Property Finance Services would be able to do their own internal assessment and they will present all the information that they gathered from that um and will present it to the council and the public in the following year. That would have been 2025. Once again, that never happened. Um, I took the proactive initiative to request information from the administration for three plus years because I didn't want us to walk into what we're doing right now once again, rushing into the purchase of a multi-million dollar uh, building and facility at the drop of a hat simply because the mayor, Jacob Fry, and MPD decided that they wanted it in that current moment. Um, we have long had conversations right now on this this body around the procarity we're walking into financially and needing to be thoughtful of how not we're just spending our general funds, but that also includes our bonding dollars and how we're being intentional of our investments in projects such as capital projects. Capital projects aren't just for um being an extension of a blank check for some of our departments. They can also be tools to generate revenue. And we wanted to be able to explore that over the past three years and make sure that we're we're being innovative in how we're meeting our public safety facility needs while also acknowledging the direction that we're saying that we're going to go, which is moving away from traditional policing that led to the murder and brutalization of hundreds of residents that landed us into a consent decree in the first place. Um, I had hoped um that again we could have avoided that for three years, but we are here again proposing a nearly $40 million or sorry, the mayor's administration is proposing a nearly million $40 million building. Um, and it still is not flushed out. And while simultaneously asking us to just rubber stamp that purchase of a building, they're also simultaneously cutting almost $5 million from our alternative public safety programs like violence prevention and embedded social worker within MPD, which we will be taking up um two items from now. We're being asked to eliminate. Um, this again raises so many questions for me that I have been requesting information on for years with little to no response from the Fry administration. I will note I have no problem supporting this particular directive. I think a general premise of this body has been it's it we should always be able to seek information. Um, and council members should be able to do that and this directive essentially aligns with that intent. Um but critical information around in antip anticipated figures of full staffing levels for all public safety um personnel that we currently have um and that we're looking to bring on, not just police officers, how that was going to relate to our growth of our BCR, violence interrupters, those things. We could have had three years of discussion around this had the administration proactively responded as opposed to seeing another it iteration or duplication of information we've been asking for and denied for three years. So, um I would love to see how this directive comes back and gives us more information on why we should support the purchase of a $40 million cop city. I really look forward to receiving that information. I know you all do a thorough thorough job in your analysis of things. Uh but I at least wanted to share those comments as my concerns around supporting it. >> Vice Chair Chuck Tai. Uh thank you, Madam Chair. Just for for those who are watching along and for the public record, I wanted to um just provide some context as to where the staff direction came from. Um last week we had um a series of briefings for all council members. Um perhaps it might have been two weeks ago actually. Um and in which the administration um provided an update on the um the public safety facility um that um that that was a part of the capital budget last year. Um and um we the the council through its budget process um took some of the the resources that were allocated in the capital budget for um for this training facility and um use those for other safety um um initiatives such as um the expansion and full funding of our neighborhood traffic calming um programs, our um protected bikeway ways um and so on. So um in in those briefings, council members raised a series of questions about um about the about how we we arrived at this uh at this um at this point in the process. Um and uh in in um consultation with our legislative research and oversight um division in the legislative department, council members Palmisano and Whiting are bringing forward the staff direction which um essentially is um directing the legislative research and oversight staff to conduct an analysis of current training needs in alignment with national best practices along with the national landscape of public safety facilities in comparable cities and the costs associated with those facilities. You'll see that in the staff direction, you don't see a uh a specific date by which um staff are asked to come back and and present this information to this committee um and make available to the public. Um and and um that's that was that was uh a determination made in consultation with staff and the authors. Um we're looking specifically for the current training needs again in alignment with national best practices. Um and uh include the emerging and innovative training technology as part of that. um the national landscape for public safety facilities and the way that comparable cities are approaching proposed construction, renovation, um funding, location, function of facilities like this. Um and then the immediate uh short-term along with long-term costs associated with new or updated facilities and the trade-offs related to um building new facilities. Currently, the police department has a uh training facility at the um at the Hamilton School known as the Hamilton Special Operations Center located on 41st in Dupont in North Minneapolis. Um and um so I just I wanted to provide all of that context for um for colleagues along with um along with just making sure that those who are following along are really clear about what it is that we're trying to do here. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thank you, Council Member Vita. >> Thank you so much, Vice Chair Chuck Ty, for um that analysis of this. I think it's important for people to understand kind of why this is before us at this point. We had briefings that were not public that spoke to um money that we need to maybe get from the state and that we need to pull together at the city level. There's action that's going to be coming uh before us at a later date. Also, there was an announcement made about this project to the public. And so, I've had a lot of questions from folks about what this looks like. Um, and so I'm excited to see the staff directive before us because that's exactly what's needed for me to communicate with the public why we're doing this, how we're doing it, you know, what um impact is going to have on the city and um especially the impact that the the positive impact that it can have in North Minneapolis because two of these um training um needs are located in North Minneapolis and folks have been advocating to get them out of North Minneapolis and out of a residential out of residential neighborhoods for a very long time. So, I'm really hoping that this staff directive takes us in in the direction of really showing us not only just about I think there's been a lot of talk about the police department. I also want to see how this is going to affect fire and 911 and all the other public safety entities that are um a part of this package. So, I know that I guess that's what I was leading to. I know that that's not listed and that the focus is a lot about police, but there are other public safety um departments that's going to be included in this training, excuse me, that's going to be included in this training center. And I'd like to be able to use that to share with the general public. Um, one thing in particular is we have the facility in Northeast that was initially um the emergency center that was initially a firefighter center and now it's it was for firefighters for training classrooms and all these things that have now been kind of used for all these other things when we have emergency to pop up at the city. Will that now go back to the firefighters exclusively using that and all of that work being moved out to this um facility that we're proposing? So, those are some of the things that I'm interested in, but I am happy to see that this um that this staff directive is before us. I know there's no date, but I'm really hoping that we can get some information back before we take that vote on um if if we're going to be moving money around or whatever staff is going to bring before us that they talked about in the the briefings a couple weeks ago. um through the chair. I just take council member Vita's uh point like that that is the goal of this is to bring it back in time for the council to consider additional information. Um also the way that we will generally write the um like kind of help you know like inform the staff directions is to keep them specific enough that it's clear, you know, we at least know the subject matter we're going to be looking at but broad enough because often with these we don't know what we're going to find. Um and so we don't want to box yourself in too much. But I think um from even a cursory look and um the staff that are working on this like I've like spoken to Dwight as well. uh like the the fire police um emergency response like that does seem to be a trend that's happening in this space. So like I fully anticipate that that'll be a big part of what we're looking at. It's not just exclusively carving out um police specific training facilities u and like as we look at other jurisdictions, we want to see um where there's been efforts to collaborate across those departments as well. >> I I really really like that and appreciate that and I'm looking forward to having one-on-one briefings about this when this comes back because I do better in those. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we'll go to Council Member Stevenson. >> Yes. Thank you. K. First, can I ask that you bring the mic closer to your mouth? I I can't really hear when you're talking. Um uh my first question was what you just answered. So, looking at a more expansive is this is this just police or is this all all of our public safety needs? U my second question, maybe this is to the clerks. I don't know. What committee is this going to go through when we're done with Supercal? This was okay. Good to know. Okay. >> Um and could I move to amend this to uh in to include not only everything that's in here, but also um a look at what we actually need. Um a lot of policy gets made based on what everyone else has, but I'd like to have an understanding of what we actually need. What can't we do right now um that uh this is going to solve? Can I move to amend? >> Um council member Stevenson, you can certainly um say the the language that you'd like to include as a friendly amendment or you could bring it tomorrow at the council meeting. >> Um okay. Okay. The language I would like to include is just adding on the end of uh national best practices, national landscape of public safety facilities and comparable cities and costs associate sorry comparable cities and include uh what public safety training we are unable to do right now with our current facilities. Council member Stevenson, if I might offer an assist. Yes. Because this would actually be voted on tomorrow at council. It sounds like what you're actually to me it sounds like you're adding a fourth, a number four, which then brings home the landscape analysis that the LRO division is looking at to the specific city of Minneapolis needs. And I think potentially you and I could work offline and have that amendment for council tomorrow that would identify specifically what that fourth um number could be. >> That's great. Thank you. Sure, I would appreciate that. Um, and lastly, just uh to um to talk to what everyone else has talked about with the the public safety facility that the administration wants to build. Uh we are not moving on that yet. We have made no votes on this. People are talking about this like it's happening. It's $38 million that we don't have. Um and we have not begun to discuss it yet. So, even though there was a a news uh press release, it is not happening yet. We have yet to decide. Thank you, >> Council Member Whiting. >> Yes. Thank you, Chair Chowry. Uh just kind of want to speak to and and appreciate I think the the the concerns that some of my colleagues have raised particularly on this issue. I think this is the the hope of this staff direction um that can kind of give us some information, give us the background about what other cities have done. um particularly as it as it relates to uh the the uh facilities reports and and plans that have already been put out there by the settlement agreement um and consent decree requirements. And so I appreciate you all looking into this work. Uh and and also I would like to add, you know, this is this was a a staff direction brought by Councilwoman Pomisano and I think it's is her hope to have the the same concerns um kind of addressed as well. And so appreciate the work that that her office is has done and I'm looking forward to uh looking at an ability right. I know uh the proposed site is in Ward 11 uh and have been in in conversations with council member Vita as well of how we can make sure that we don't have the same things that happened in North Minneapolis happen in South Minneapolis. And so I know we'll be working in conjunction to ensure uh that those the inequities that have happened on the north side do not follow on the south side as well. And so I appreciate you looking at everything that is going forward and and I'm excited to see uh when this report comes back to us. So thank you. >> Thank you >> council members. There we go. Council member Wansley. >> Thank you chair Chagari. Um just wanted to also offer a quick clarification just regarding something that council member Chuck Tai raised. Um while I understand the briefings and the discussions and potential um requests for future action on this item um all took place or initi was initiated last week. This is grounded in a three plus year larger conversation. This project has been long known um and advocated for by the administration. There's been long discussion and debate by a variety of partners around what was actually specifically needed uh regarding this project to ask for fuller details and those external partners for several years were not giving the the information that we are now seeking. So I just need to put this in the larger context of for over three years people have had curiosities of how we could have proactive planning around these projects to meet not only MPD's uh training or wellness needs but to make sure that it's in alignment with the newer direction that um we are moving towards with the safe and thriving communities plan and the implementation of that. Um so I just need that to be grounded. These conversations didn't just start last week. This has been a a long-standing project in deliberation around how do we make sure the facilities that we have support our new vision around public safety and not just doing um a rebrand or rush around MPD's capital projects to fit their needs and then slap um a new safety service such as BCR on the front to to then say, "Oh, we're we're doing something different." kind of like what we've done with the community safety center that we're rolling out um in my ward where that was a rushed process and purchase where for also several years council members asked can we be proactive can we get additional information and the administration did not do so at that time so I think this is largely part of it's a 38 nearly 40 million and I think we need to be cognizant of that too we were given a different amount several years ago around this project it's now 40 we should not anticipate with the way that constru construction costs and building costs are that we are just simply looking at 40 million. This is going to be a substantially expensive project and we want to be sober around how this is actually not only supporting our city services but actually is this the right prioritization right now? Could we be doing different things with bonding money which this body has already made votes on. We made votes just last December to say no, we want to reinvest money appropriated for this project towards other safety projects such as trafficcoming and ADA compliance so that our uh communities experiencing mobility issues and disabilities can also have a variety of safety services and projects that can improve their quality of life. We actually made decisions around that. Um, so this is continuation of a long-standing debate that did not just start last week. >> Next, we'll go to Council Member Vita. >> Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member Wanley. That is correct. This has been a long um ongoing conversation. I actually started it the the year we got elected as the chair of public safety. You said that the administration is who's been bringing this forward. I would say the administration in collaboration with council member Vita because one of the first things I heard from all of North Minneapolis wards four and five is whatever you can do as a council representative in North Minneapolis is please get this out of our neighborhoods. Please get this out of our neighborhoods. So, I have been actively working with the administration since 2022 to figure out ways in which we can make that happen for these residential neighborhoods that are enduring more and more trauma every day when they have to um watch what is necessary for a police officer to do their work. Like the police are doing nothing wrong. It's just a terrible location for training facilities. It's a terrible location for a gun range. And so, we're trying to get that out of North Minneapolis. I was happy that the administration even listened to me and took into consideration what I was trying to do. And um there was a sense of urgency then. I've cooled my jets. I've calmed down over the years. This project has taken way too long in my opinion to happen. I've had many conversations with click representatives and it always feels like the north side has to wait until it's our turn and our turn never seems to um get there. that we've seen multiple things happen on the south side around public safety and all we're asking is for fairness on the north side. So, this project means a lot to me. I know it means a lot to um council member Warren. She's new and she's been hearing about it a lot also. And so, my hope is that we can work with the administration. We can use this staff directive uh to not only help the north side, but help our entire city. I mean thi this training facility in my opinion is necessary for folks to do their work in a healthy environment and that is not retraumatizing people. So I'm grateful that council member um Whiten is saying yes we have a spot possibly after we get this information back in W 11 that's not residential that's a commercial area that we can do this in. Um that's not easy to say I'm going to take this to my constituents and we're going to bring this training center there. So, I'm happy that he's even open and willing to have conversations about it. Um, I I just want to say again, this has been a long conversation with the north side. That's um I mean, we have to have these conversations with the administration and I've had this conversation with almost every single one of my council uh council colleagues from the time I started here. This is our third term together, some of us. And this conversation started in 2022. and my advocacy will continue until these um training facilities are out of North Minneapolis. >> Thank you. And then I will note for the clerks that council member Rainville has joined the meeting. I know you've been here for some time now and I will also recognize you for comment. >> Thank you for recognizing me uh as being here and for allowing me to speak. I appreciate that. Uh I just want to briefly uh uh talk about my interest in this project and uh this is a public safety project and as we want to improve our public safety system whether it's BCR, MPD, the fire, 911, we have to spend the money. Uh my life experience has taught me that nothing is free. And if we want to keep improving our public safety system, it's going to cost money and we have to spend that money for our citizens. This is money well spent. If we go forward, it's going to help us. It's going to help our citizens. It's uh it's necessary. So, I I commend the hard work that uh and acknowledge the hard work that Council Member Vita has put in over the years and want to remind the public uh the conversation is still going on, but it's been going on for years and years and years. We have to make a decision and get the state involved in this process if we choose to go forward. >> Council members, is there any further discussion? >> Okay. Seeing none, we have a motion before us for approval. I will ask the clerk to call the role. >> Council member P. >> Uh quick question. Did is this uh also recognizing the Stevenson amendment >> that will occur tomorrow? >> Okay. I >> Wsley >> I >> Rainville >> I >> Vita >> I >> Warren >> I >> Schaefer >> I >> Stevenson >> I >> Chavez >> I >> Whiting >> I >> vice chuktai >> I >> chair Chowry >> I >> we have 11 eyes. That motion carries and will be forwarded to tomorrow's full council meeting. Next, we will go to item number two, which is a presentation about the 2025 annual traffic camera report. I'll welcome Ethan Fe to give that presentation. Welcome. >> Thanks. >> Uh, Chair Chowry, C. Um, council members, thanks for having me. Uh, my name is Ethan Folly. I'm a transportation planning manager in Minneapolis public works. I also previously was the vision zero program coordinator and as part of that I've been the program manager for the traffic safety camera pilot. It's an honor to be here today which one of my colleagues called this super duper cow. So you can use that if you like it. But um all right so just a reminder on um I know there's some folks that are newer on the traffic safety camera pilot. So I'm going to give a little bit of overview and then we'll get into the annual report details. So traffic safety cameras are one part of our overall vision zero work to get to and make progress towards getting to zero traffic deaths and serious injuries on our streets. Got a lot of other important strategies as well, but this is an important one of those too. We've been talking, researching, engaging u planning and now implementing on the traffic safety camera work since 2019. And so you can see some of the the steps we've taken over time including um initial analysis work and engagement work to decide we want to pursue this really and then going to the legislature and getting authority to do a a pilot program here. And since that uh we got that authority in 2024 we've been working to prepare the details to implement it which we started this year. Uh we do have authority for this pilot program through the end of June in 2029. This is obviously about improving traffic safety on our streets. But for this pro pilot to be successful, we also need to build community trust by implementing the system fairly, equitably, protecting privacy, doing it efficiently. So those are reflected in our goals for the program and an important and critical part of this work as well. I want to I'm up here presenting. I'm I'm the overall project manager, but there are many others involved across departments. So, just want to acknowledge that public works overall we lead on the uh reporting and evaluation work and the overall coordination and we determine the camera locations. um regulatory service staff um traffic control agents are the ones who actually review uh when there is a a violation that comes in to confirm it and actually issue the warning or citation as appropriate. City attorney's office manages a lot of the legal coordination with the uh county courts and also manages dismissals. And then we have a camera contractor, Novoa Global, who uh they operate and maintain the cameras themselves and also mail out the warnings or citations and maintain an on online system that people can call in and provide information so that uh if they have a reason for a dismissal. We also have a lot of other important partners across the city and externally as well in this program. Just a reminder kind of on the steps of how this goes. So this is for initially we only have speed safety cameras out and they only record if uh and process for a violation if a someone is going 10 or more miles an hour of the speed limit. And so then it's taking a picture from the rear. Um as part of that we're not allowed to have anybody be personally identifiable in the pictures. Um, and then that information, which is a pictures and a short video clip, is sent to those agents and regulatory services who confirm and actually issue the warning or citation. You can see here that our program is set up. It's unique in the country that the first violation is a warning for everyone. And then the second offense, you get the opportunity for a free online traffic safety course. And then beyond that, it's $40 fine or $80 fine if it's 20 or more of the the limit. Those are things that are really intentional about the fairness and equity that we talked about. We're trying to reduce the unsafe behavior. We're not trying to be uh generating revenue or being overly punitive here. Um and then from there, uh you can see it's sent out, people get it, and they can go and um resolve it online if they'd like. And we're we're always working to improve those systems as well. In 2025, we had five traffic safety camera locations um spread across the city which you can see here. Uh we launched the program in October last year. Uh and so this is reporting through December. And you can see over the the two months there from October to December, we saw quite significant drop in speeding at camera locations of more uh more than 50% for both 10 or more over or 20 and more over. Uh I'll I'll just note that this is kind of what I'd expected based on results in other cities. Would also expect that we can continue to see this go down, which is my hope. Um I'll just I'll just say that. um based on other cities but uh it's a good first step. I want to also just note this is just a few months data. There's a lot going on, right? Like I think we're reporting out here on what's happening. This is not our evaluation, right, on the overall program. Uh we will be doing more evaluation to come. This is encouraging, but I think there's a lot more to to look at and uh as we go forward. Oops. we saw more than 40% drop in speeding at all of uh the camera locations. Uh so you can kind of see uh just the kind of the trends across um uh the different locations here and kind of the variability uh in amount of speeding before and how it's gone down. So that's very encouraging that was quite uniform uh across locations. Overall you can see we our our team our staff and consultant or and contractor um managed more than 33,000 violations uh in those three months last year and so there is a lot happening here um uh that is a very significant volume right and we're uh but I also think it's important like we reduced I think it was by you know that reduction was equivalent to about 14,000 fewer drivers speeding past these locations in December so very significant ificant numbers of reductions. Um you can also see we have we report on these things part of the state requirement but um our agents did see a few times when they determine that they're they shouldn't issue a warning or citation but not a ton um as a percentage and then so far not that many people have opted into the free online traffic safety course but uh that will increase as uh as we go and good to have it as an option. Okay. So, we are we do anticipate adding additional speed safety camera locations as early as May 1st this year. Those will come from this list here. This uh of high priority feature expansion locations spread around the city. Uh we are still finalizing the exact timeline and locations for that initial expansion. And then I would anticipate we're going to get to most of these high priority locations this year. As part of that, we we do have some mobile camera locations and we might move one of our existing ones to a new location as well because we're, you know, we're piloting and we're evaluating different things. So, that's part of it. We're also trying to finalize uh having some uh one or two locations that do both speed and red light um enforcement. Uh and we'll continue to monitor this and looking at uh our ability to expand beyond that in the future. With that, I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you. >> Thank you so much for the presentation, Mr. Folly. Are there any questions? Okay, we will go to Council Member Rainville. >> Thank you. And uh Ethan, I I have to compliment you in front of my colleagues. Uh I I was over at the state when you were testifying last year and one of the rural legislators uh questioned you about why should he be responsible when his 15-year-old nephew borrows his car and and speeds and your reply was well wouldn't you like to know that your 15-year-old nephew is speeding you could help him? I thought that was a great answer and you completely neutralized the whole room after that. So thank you for helping get this through. The questions I have, how long will it take uh to expand to county and state roads? I know you had to work out things with that. Does this uh the the locations you showed us for potential expansions, does that include county and state roads in the city? >> Uh chair, council member. Uh so we currently our analysis only looked at city streets and if we uh we are interested and open I think to looking at county or state roadways in the future that does require signoff from the county or state um for those roadways. That is a conversation we'll uh we're exploring with them and that would be for potentially 20 27 or beyond locations. And so it is something that we continue to look at for the future. Well, thank you. And I would encourage you to start those conversations early because so many county and state roads are in our city and uh they're a problem as well as the city streets. Maybe maybe a bigger problem when I think of Henipin over in Northeast or or Broadway. So, thank you for that. And my last uh question is uh what about bridges? Uh are those on your radar at all? You know, I represent an area that has a lot of bridges over the river and cars speed over that all the time and it's it's just it's a problem. Uh chair, council member, so there are a lot of potential locations we could we could uh that would be good locations, right? And uh so that's one of our challenges in the analysis and we get a lot of community requests and some of those are on bridges and other parkways is another one where we get community requests um quite a bit and there is a lot of speeding happening in those locations and I'll remind like we have different tools right we have our traffic calming program as well that is also uh supporting traffic calming efforts. So this isn't the only tool that we have. Uh but overall uh our analysis really focuses on prioritizing based on what's the injury crash history that we have at locations along with looking at other factors like proximity to schools and uh equity and making those prioritization decisions. So the reality is is we have a lot more good candidate locations than we can locate cameras. And I think bridges kind of fall off of that because there's a lot of speeding on bridges in a lot of cases, but there might be fewer injury crashes than we have at some other locations because there aren't intersections. And most of our injury crashes are happening at or close to intersections. >> Great. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Next, I'll recognize Council Member Whiting. >> Thank you, Chair Chowry, and thank you, Director Fley. Um, just kind of a quick question. I was looking at kind of the the proposed locations on there and it looks like four of those are in uh ward 11. And so like if if you're just trying to slow me down, I promise I will slow down. Uh but if you're able to talk to a little bit of of why you're prioritizing these specific locations um in W 11. Uh and then second question is especially when they're around schools um kind of what the thought process is when you were putting these cameras around schools as well. Yeah, chair, council member. So, I think most of those locations are on the border with adjacent wards as well. And so, one of the things that it, you know, when we talk about fairness and equity that we've heard around is what does that mean for camera locations, right? And I think there's this balance of enforcement efforts in areas where there are more folks with lower incomes and anything any fine-based enforcement is inherently inequitable >> uh when it's a a static fine amount. And so I think balancing what we've heard and then state law requirements around that, we are looking to make sure we are locating and spreading cameras around the city. I will note that the reality is ward 11 has fewer injury crashes than some of the other nearer in wards and that that's sort of the uh the reality. And so we're looking at locations, particularly city street locations where we still see the value added there. And the the Nicollet and uh near 46 location had the highest speeds. And I think you go out there, if anybody goes out there, like there's a there's a daycare right there. It's a residential neighborhood. There's no reason people should be going 35 plus on that street right there, right? And that's the highest speeding area that we have. So I'm glad we've been able to address that. And I think these other locations have a high amount of speeding even if they don't have quite as many injury crashes as some of the other locations. But I think we will be balancing these with mobile location testing. So some of these will move around and they won't be as permanent as some of the other locations where there's just a little more injury crash history. >> Thank you. Yeah. And and I would I would like to know too, it's I think this has been really helpful uh in our ward. I think we've seen a a massive decrease in speed particularly at the 46 and nickel locations. Um and so I'm really excited to kind of see more of these pop up particularly for safety for our residents and uh our youth and young people that are around most of these spots. Uh just another question here as I've started to get I've had a lot more uh um comments come in in support of these but obviously a few have come in u with with frustrations or questions. um if you could kind of talk to the signage uh and I know we have to to give some level of of um notice uh for these things. Can you talk to why there isn't like a sign with massive lights telling you that a speeding trap is right here? Um just kind of the thought process behind that as well. >> Uh chair, council member. So our approach has been ahead of and then that first week of the launch, we put out the variable message signs saying that there's a a a traffic camera coming. um and the start date so that we are really educating folks ahead of time. Um and then every location has signage ahead that and we're required under state uh state um rules to do this uh it to notify that there's um enforcement ahead. I I think I had a picture with exactly a photo enforcement ahead and then remind folks of the speed limit right there. Um and and I do get that sometimes people reach out. I didn't realize the speed limit was 25 mph. Well, that's part of what we're doing is educating folks on that and you get a warning first. Um, but uh that that allows us to educate folks and we've got the signage and we do see we did see decrease right away from the signage, right? Um, we we saw that right away from the signage and and at the same time those variable message signs, they're more expensive over time. And we don't want to clutter over all the message, you know, like it it's just you have it too much and then it just kind of blends in and people forget about it. And so that's the balance overall um as around the signage, but the signage is really important and we definitely uh do that for all locations. >> Amazing. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next, we'll go to Council Member Stevenson. >> Yeah, thank you for this presentation. It's been great. I have a few questions. Um, the first is how are expansions being decided? I think you got into it a little bit, but could you go over that again? >> Yeah, chair, council members. So, from these 11 high priority expansion locations, we've already been working on the details of sighting. So, sighting a camera at an actual location takes a little bit more than maybe you think at the surface. So, for example, like getting one on Henipin Avenue in downtown near 7th Street, this is a little bit challenging for us to make sure we locate that in a way that it's going to work well and that we have the power it needs and other things like that. And so, generally, we are installing new poles to place these on um for the permanent location. So, sighting is a is a is a thing. And so, when we talk about where are we going next, we have some locations where the sighting is sort totally figured out and we'll be ready. they're ready to go. Um, and those will be that's kind of how we're we're thinking about which ones will come first along with just the overall prioritization system that we had in in our analysis as well as making sure we've got geographic balance around the city. So maintaining that some level that geographic balance is and equity balance um in the locations is important even as we phase in uh additional locations. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, do you have limits like by the state law as to how many you can roll out or how many you can roll out at one time? >> Uh, chair, council member. So, yeah, we do have uh the state law maximum of 42 locations during the pilot um period. And so, we obviously can add additional locations here. And um part of this is just sorting out the budgetary side of this. So, one of the things I I didn't get into it, but I'll mention it now is any revenue generated from the citations is uh is required to be either spent on operating the program or if there's excess revenue required to be invested in traffic safety efforts. Um so, we are, you know, we have now a special revenue fund that all those revenues go into as well as the general fund allocation so that um we're making sure we're meeting that requirement. So, one of the things we're still working out is exactly how much revenue will it generate from citations and that I think is still we're still you know I just got the January numbers and you you can see in the report that like mostly this was funded by the general fund and that's I think going to continue to be true this year and those citation revenues get understanding that better helps us understand like what capacity do we have to add additional camera locations because every new camera location we got to pay for the operation of the camera we also have to pay for the traffic control agents to to actually review the and send out the the warnings, issue the warnings and citations. So, uh those are factors in kind of how quickly we add additional camera locations. >> Okay. Thank you. Um and is there limits in state law for the the citation tiering. The reason I'm asking is because uh 46 in Nicollet, the the southbound side is in Ward 8 and that was where there was this insane amount of uh speeding. People going 45 miles an hour on that street. People live on that street. People are walking. I personally think if you go 45 miles an hour, you should get a ticket right away and not a warning and then a free class and then a ticket. Like are you limited um in your your citation abilities? >> Chair and council member. So yes, th those setups uh around first a warning. We also do a a one-month warning period uh at at the start and I I think we will do that at new camera locations as well to make sure that somebody has gotten their warning at a new location before citations are issued. Um and and then the the fine amounts of $40 or $80 if it's uh 20 or more over the speed limit, those are set in state statute. And so uh we are, you know, we're just following the state law. I will note that we had, you know, quite a bit of conversation with legislature about that as we were creating the program. I mentioned that some of those elements are fairly unique and I think that's something that we're going to be evaluating as part of the pilot program. You know, is does that structure make sense going forward? I think there's a lot of benefits to it and, you know, maybe you argue we should fine-tune some things. I will note, you know, in other cities, one of the things they focused on is the people just who ignore it. And uh I think we had one person who has 76 violations so far. Um and uh so we will be looking at that a little bit too, right? And uh generally we can see from the data that I shared that people are responding and there uh and we know most people will and then maybe that person will once they get a really big bill um at some point in collections if they're not paying it. Um but we'll be looking at that part of it too. So, there's a lot we can learn through the pilot and how people are responding locally and how we refine that over time with the legislature. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, next, when you're looking at injury crashes, are you also looking at like how many times a sign has been had to been replaced? Um, I'm bringing this up because 35th and 36th in Blazedell, the signs are like constantly being run into. They spend most of their time parallel with the ground. Um, so it's just like a place where crashes are happening all the time. So, I'm just wondering, does that go into the the consideration as well? >> Uh, chair and council member, I guess I'm not aware of any of our signs for the traffic safety camera pilot being damaged so far. >> Oh, I guess I meant like city signs. Are you also like high injury streets and also like how many times have you had to replace a city? Cuz that to me is like if somebody's standing there, they would have died, you know? So, that's like >> that's what I'm getting at. >> Thank you. Uh, council member, chair, council member. So, the uh that hasn't been part of our calculus. I I think we've been really focused on the data we have around reported crashes, particularly injury crashes. So there are other data points that we can pull in, but we do have a lot of good data that we feel like we can prioritize based on that and really focusing on what's our vision zero commitment. It is focusing on reducing those fatal and serious injury crashes. And that isn't to say we're going to we also want to bring down all crashes and all injury crashes, but those in particular are are our focus with the program. >> Okay. Um I only have 41 seconds left. Uh so my constituents are going to definitely want me to ask you how are you making sure the data isn't going to ICE? >> Uh yeah, chair, council member, great question. So this was an intentional part and focus for us as we worked at the legislature, right? And so data security, privacy, those are really important elements. So I think at the core we're trying to have is not collecting data that's useful for other things, right? Like we're not collecting we're they're not just regularly recording video. They only record video and take pictures if they sense a violation. And in that >> Council Member Stevenson's out of time, but I'm in Q Next, so I would love to hear the answer to your question. >> Okay. And um and so we uh so that's part of it is like not having the data there uh that people can pull there. People can't be personally identifiable in in the in the So you if you if you hopefully no one's gotten one yet, but if you were to get one and you go and you and you look at the video, you're going to see that there's areas that are blurred out in in the in the the video and camera footage. And that's intentional to make sure we don't have somebody walking on a sidewalk and we we see them in the in the footage. So, uh, the state law also, uh, prohibits use of the camera violations for subpoena for anything other than speed and red light enforcement. Like, that's the only thing that it can be used for. Um, and what we have then is data is really our contractors pulling in uh data that is publicly available through law enforcement agencies for vehicle owners, right? like and and from that uh they're able that's how they send it to the right person and so that but that's data that's already available publicly and so I think we've really tried to limit that they have not had a request um I asked them have you had a request from a subpoena from a federal uh agency for any of the data they have not um and I think that's uh because we've tried to really limit what data is there and the privacy and and the protection ction of that data was a a critical part of this overall approach and of our RFP selection and it was a big part of that to make sure we have security and privacy and and that's a big part of what we monitor as well and we'll be doing an audit to make sure you know that they're continuing to to do well on that as well. >> Okay, thank you. >> Yeah, thank you. I am very very supportive of the traffic camera work. I think like the numbers speak for themselves. the the amount of speeding decrease in the these project areas is incredible. Um I think we're really clearly in a point in the city of Minneapolis where the real thing that's going to lead to change in speeding is actually trying to do things that will change people's patterns of behavior, the actual built environment. Um so I'm excited to see that the the results have gone over so well. Uh, I think it's staggering that there's 33,000 almost 34,000 violations um in just a couple months, but also just names the problem. And I think like there have been so many community members since uh CO 19 that have just been complaining and also more severely very negatively impacted by speeding and crashes and have um experienced the the loss of loved ones or uh seeing someone that they love or themselves have a permanent disability. And that's largely a huge reason why um this was pushed so hard uh by you, by public works, by the city um at the capital. Like that was the whole goal. So we can save more lives and make sure people's people's lives are not damaged and they could just move around our city freely. Um and we also want people to be better drivers. We also want to encourage people to drive less. So if this also plays a part in that, then then great. Um, one of the questions that I have, it's related to uh, Council Member Stevenson's questions around data privacy. And I think it's important to lift up, I think, every single time you talk about traffic cameras before us. I always bring it up, but I think it's important for you to just share like um kind of the mechanisms and things that were set in place into statute uh that the ACLU brought up that MENOGI uh the Minnesota Coalition for Government Information. Got it. Um what they brought forward and kind of the parameters that we put in place. >> Chair, I can definitely tell you're on the intergovernmental relation being able to name what menoji means. Um so yes we uh it's uh those data privacy and practices pieces were essential for this right and so we did work with those uh partners that you mentioned ACLU Minji and and others um at the capital on really best practices and I I think I was really intrigued that Minoji said we think in a lot of ways you're setting up a model and how we can manage and protect data through this. So there's data retention requirements in there, data structur timeline requirements in the state law. I already mentioned some of the the limitations in the data that we can retain and and how it can be used. Those are all really important things uh for this and and you know things we were all interested in doing the best practices because it helps to have the strongest program part uh possible. And I'll just note I didn't mention in my presentation but to your point around saving lives and other things like that. So we we have in the last four years in Minneapolis had more than that we're now at 50 people who were killed in crashes that involve clear speeding or running red lights. And those people should all be alive as we know. But it's extra terrible that most of those people were not speeding or run and run right themselves. They were killed by somebody else who did. And now this is not the only thing we are working on in that space. But we do think it's important for helping to reset some of the driving culture which has I think we all see has evolved in a negative way since uh 20 uh co 19 and everything in 2020. So um this is just part of that but it is really important for that proctor. >> Thank you. Um another question that I have is more related to the federal uh operation metro surge. We have gotten several reports from constituents about erratic driving behavior, speeding, violating our basic traffic laws. I'm sure um there's a likelihood that they're involved in some citations that we might see, but they have rental vehicles. What does that look like? And what are kind of some of the discussions that you've had at the department related to this? >> Yeah, chair. Uh it is a good question. I've definitely seen some of that behavior myself, right? Um, and what the what we have with the data and how it's handled through the traffic safety camera program is it's really hard for us to know how many federal agents have violated or traffic safety cameras because uh they are reported to the owner of the vehicle. And so if it's a rental or a lease vehicle, it gets reported to that agency. Now, most of the bigger companies that rent or lease, they just take care of it and they would pass on the the charge. But if it's a warning, right, like they don't have any obligation to tell us who was driving. And if it's a citation, most of them just pay it and then pass it along and they don't come back with who was driving. >> I'm out of time, so I'm going to pass it over to um Council Member Schaefer. Thank you very much for this report. It's really exciting and I'm super supportive. So, thank you for all your work. Um I really resonate with um this idea of the parkways. Um you mentioned your main metric is really you know this reported injury crashes. Um what is your next tier of metrics um within that or will you primarily land on that for the foreseeable future? >> Uh chair council member. So under the state law we are required to consider and show that there is a tra a documented traffic safety okay >> uh challenge and the way that we have chosen to like as a first screen for that is some level of injury crash history. Um, I didn't include it in here, but if if uh there's a link in the RCA and the annual report to our traffic uh camera analysis that we did. And as part of that, you can kind of see how we narrowed it down. And we have a map. And sorry, I don't have it in here. Um, but uh is where are all the locations that have had at least one injury crash over a 5-year period? >> And if we had locations that didn't have that, then we weren't considering them for locations. And so I and then from there then we were doing a different additional analysis that builds off of that looking uh at proximity to schools. So these have to be within 2,000 ft of a school um under state law. Um we're we're so that's another kind of filter factor. Um we're also then looking at pedestrian demand and generators and uh and other factors in there and then equity and geographic balance. So all those things come into play there. Um the parkways themselves I think we get a lot of complaints and I definitely it's one where we hear a lot about and the and there's a lot of speeding going on there and the reality is we don't see that many injury crashes on parkways so it's hard for us to justify prioritizing it broadly in the system and it might be a similar thing to the bridges because parkways often don't have quite as many intersections and so there's just fewer of those conflicts. There's a little they're easier to manage than on some of the the busier streets. So that's just a reality and and and I'll be honest, I think we're going to continue to hear from that, but like my professional perspective ultimately is we have to prioritize where we can make the biggest safety benefit and we have that obligation. >> Yeah, absolutely. I I totally concur with that. I guess you might just I mean the the park system has all the data on the usage around multimodal and pedestrian and you might just for fun pull those up and say hey are these targeted spots that we have chosen anywhere affecting these the highest volume PET and multimodal trails that we have in our city because I think if we could have a little bit of sensitivity to that we might increase usage in those areas and in that form of transportation if people felt safer. Um right now I think people are afraid sometimes of you know crossing West River Parkway to get to the greenway or you know West River Parkway is what comes to mind. So I just I think you know if there could be also some you know analysis around that for just for comparison's sake it might be interesting but thank you for that detail. >> Thank you. >> Next we'll go to Council Member Vita. >> Thank you chair. Um I just wanted to thank you Mr. Fley for this amazing work. Uh, I knew this would turn out great when you started leading the work. I said, "Every time you hear, we worked many, many years ago in our previous life to get rid of the inequitable uh camera program because it was targeting people in North Minneapolis because it was targeting people um in underserved communities. So, I I always trust that you're doing the right thing by people, especially not breaching any sort of um using surveillance to breach folks identities or put them at risk for anything. I knew the day that you brought this uh program before us, this pilot program, and when you took it to the state that it was about ensuring that no one died from traffic deaths in this city. You've been committed to that work for as long as I've known you. I'm certain you will stay committed to that work and any way that I can support you on this body to continue this program to I mean I've told you I need at least 50 cameras in Ward 4. So however I can help you reduce traffic deaths in our city in these um these areas where it really is some places in our city where there's accidents more than we would ever know and people are uh being disproportionately harmed by traffic deaths. So, I've always just admired how committed you've been to this work and how you stay on top of this and you know what's going on all around the world when it comes to traffic safety. So, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to these um presentations. I I know it's just going to get better and better and better. Thank you. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> I put myself back in queue and I think I'm the last one. uh unless other council members decide to jump in. Just wanted to confirm I understood uh the answer to your question. So the the charge would go to the rental company and they would pass it on to um whoever was a driver or they would incur it themselves, but we would have no way of knowing who the driver is. uh chair, they have the option to report back and have us transfer the violation, but overwhelmingly they do not do that. They just take care of it themselves. And so what the challenge would be is getting any level of like consistent data that we'd be able to say with any level of certainty what was happening. That would be very hard to do. >> Yes, we do know though if it is a rental uh rental company. Correct. >> Uh chair, yes, we do. I I do have those numbers. Um we had uh I I don't want to misspeak but I can I can share them. But we had uh hundreds of rental company violations in the the 3 months in uh in in 2025. Um I think in January we had like 60 or so rental company violations from the biggest firms. Um and there might be other leasing agencies that are not getting pulled into those numbers fully. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That's good to know. It will be interesting to compare that time to the next three months. So would love to follow up and know what that ends up being and seeing if there is a noticeable difference. Um the next question that I had and I think it's my last question. I just have some comments is partnering with other levels of government, Henipin County Parks or the states particularly Henipin County. um if they were to do a traffic safety camera pilot, would that be a shared project with the city of Minneapolis and would the hope be that they take on some of the cost to do it? I also know that there's perhaps discussions of them doing a pilot themselves, but I I guess I'm not clear as to if the state statute only gives the city of Minneapolis the authority as an entity or it also encompasses Henipin County. >> Uh chair, that's a good question. So the state law is spec gives us as the city of Minneapolis the authority to do this pilot. uh we can through our pilot locate on county or mindot or parkways and with that agency's approval. Uh and so those are conversations we've had some in the past. Uh we're going to be revisiting those conversations this year with trying to understand might there be some locations that we look at for 2027. And if we get to that um then we would do additional location analysis to look at those roadways and prioritize from them and do additional community engagement as part of that to get feedback. We have gotten feedback from community members already on county and and mind roadways and parkways as I mentioned. Um and so that would be all part of that and we would definitely have it be public and it would be look into 2027. The reality, I think, is we're probably going to be like kind of calling the question on that with with those partners this year. Um because for the pilot period, it's probably not going to make sense to, you know, we probably want to get it in next year if we were going to do it. Um and and you know, I'm I'm pretty confident that we'll have at least some partner u locations that we can consider for 27. Um, Mandot is already doing a pilot in work zones. So, I think they're maybe ready to partner with us and we'll have the conversations with those other agencies. >> Great. And I'll just make my comments in terms of uh partnership with other levels of government, particularly the county. I think council member Rainville did a pretty good job of teeing up the need on county roads in particular. and I will go back to kind of the origin of why we're doing this project. And a lot of that had to do with um the the amount of crashes that have occurred on some of the highest injury streets in our city. And Lake Street is the highest injury street in the state. and it's a county road and routinely county roads like Lake Street, Cedar, uh Minihaha Avenue, they see the highest level of speeding. Um and then on Lake Street in particular, um there were three sisters who were driving and there was a crash at an intersection, person was speeding, went through a light and they lost their lives. And that was a key part of the testimony for why we needed the state to pass this. and that is why we need Henipin Countyy's partnership. So, any way I could be of service in supporting and making that happen, please let me know. >> Thank you, Chair. And and I will sort of also just acknowledge the partnership we've had with the county on making safety improvements. So, when we look at Lake Street, right, it looks a lot different than it when it we when that terrible fatal crash happened. And that is partnership we had with with the county. Um, and we're already seeing positive results from the the 4 to three lane conversion, safety conversion on Lake Street. Speeds are down, uh, crashes are down, and so we are working with them on lots of other projects there, too. So, I really appreciate that partnership, and it's one we want to continue to grow in in a variety of areas. >> Thank you. And then we'll go to Council Member Whiting, who was kind enough to let me go over a little bit. >> Yes. Thank you, Chair Chowry. And I will be really quick on this one. Sorry, another question for you. Um, for the specific locations that are on the borders of uh it looks like 11, 13, and this would be 8. Um, for those ws, do you know like what side of the borders they're on? >> Uh, chair and council member, uh, very good question. Um, I so the the Nicolid, uh, near 46th Street location is near 47th Street, right? And that's kind of down when we get down to like where can we locate and get power and like >> when we get into those things. So that's why we say near because like we need that flexibility. Um I know that 28th Avenue South near Minihaha Parkway which we're looking at uh we already have a poll in the ground to support a permanent camera location there and that will be just south of Minihaha Parkway um on 28th Avenue South. Um, so I think that's fully uh that's just outside of uh so I think that's in 11 and maybe but it'll impact both sides there and >> we'll claim W 12 claims it. you all can argue over that and know and then uh I I think the those other locations we're we're we're looking at as um four uh mobile locations and and I I can't recall exactly how those have been cited, but it really it does get into like technical >> and a lot of it's about power and making sure we've got good visibility that there aren't trees in the way and other stuff like that. >> Okay. Thank you. I think council member Palmasano wants it on her side of the board. So, if you want to put it over there, that's okay with with us. Thank you, >> Council Member Warren. >> Thank you, Chair. I greatly appreciate it. Jameson, they not coming for you. Council member um I I really appreciate all of this great work that you're doing and I am in full support of this um moving forward. I'm just wondering in the future uh scope of work with this project, are we going to have lifetime real time video that will aid us in being able to, you know, support what's happening like on site and on scene. And I want to thank um uh council chair for bringing up that very instance with the death of those those young ladies who were in that vehicle. When we're seeing things like this, it would like it would be great to have real time response for you know to aid in those emergencies or e type situations. Um, I can think of of several instances um where we have lost, you know, dear community members at the result of vehicular violence for individuals recklessly driving throughout our communities. We just had an incident on Osen Highway where we lost, you know, two beautiful community members. with respect to that and the erratic driving that's happening throughout. So, is there a future scope of work where we will have lifetime video that will aid in us being able to respond more effectively and efficiently to those type of um violations that are happening within community. uh chair, council members. So the state law prohibits that um right now for the pilot program and and I think that was responding to quite a few concerns we heard at the capital around that. Now there are other cameras that the city has out across different departments that uh including traffic cameras that are managing uh signal operations and uh and some of that data is we can pull from some of that um for and this is these cameras um are not set up to do that um and they're not because we're that state law requirement um but I think it's also just because the intention of this program is focused on a certain outcome and those other there are already other cameras that are kind of serving some of those needs. And so we felt it was really important to respond to some of the concerns we were hearing around surveillance and make sure people know that this program to be successful at its core does not need to have any of that extra surveillance. And so that's what's built into the state law. >> Thank you for answering that. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. I'll ask council members if there's anyone else that had any questions or comments. We're not seeing any. So, thank you again, Mr. Folly, for the presentation. I will direct the clerk to file that annual report. Next, we'll take up item number three, which is for the appointed position in the police department entitled Director of Police Health and Wellness. I'll welcome up um I'll welcome up Brenda Miller to kick off the presentation and then ask every subsequent presenter to just introduce themselves. >> Good morning, Chair Chowry and members of the committee. I'm Brenda Miller, the classification supervisor for the city. Um I'm here to present to you the director of police health and wellness for your consideration. Um, this is a new position in the police department and it's responsible for the overall strategy for police health, wellness, and safety. It's been evaluated at 578 points and is a grade 12. Um, the 2026 salary schedule ranges from approximately $132,000 to $157,000 and the incremental cost is in the budget. Changes would be effective March 5th of 2026. This position meets the criteria of section 2011010 of the city code of ordinances. It reports the police chief and it's a member of the department's executive management team. It leads the development and implementation of policy goals and strategic planning for the police department related to u wellness and safety. It requires leadership vision, team building, and strategy implementation, and establishes policy goals and strategies that are consistent with the goals and priorities established by the Minneapolis City Council and the police chief. Please find that the director of police health and wellness meets the criteria of section 20110 of the Minneapolis Code of Ordinances and forwarded on to city council. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. and I'll check in. There's there's additional presentation, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay, perfect. All right. Good morning, Chair Chowi, Vice Chair Chug Thai, members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to present here this morning. I recognize this is wellworn territory at this point, but as we enter day two of this cow meeting, I want to assure you that Dr. Dr. Marty and I will be as brief as possible so that uh we can keep at center focus the health and wellness of everybody involved here. Um with that said, my name is Mark Hannaman. I'm a sergeant with the police department. Uh I'm here with my colleague Dr. Meredith Martyr. She's the health and wellness manager and together we comprise twothirds of MPD's health and wellness unit. We're here to present to you all today on the proposed reallocation of funds to support the hiring of a health and wellness director. We hope that through this presentation, we'll be able to showcase to you all that this is an increasingly valuable position for the police department and it's critical and vital to our ongoing work to make certain that all members of MPD are prepared to to face the challenges that they often do throughout this job. >> Thank you, Sergeant Hanaman. Um so this position would use redistributed funds um as was discussed earlier by council member Wanley from a vacant um compliance specialist position and also from an ongoing reduction in the Henipin County embedded social work contract. Um the health and wellness director would be the go-tome concerning issues of general uh wellness with an emphasis on psychological wellness. The director would oversee a newly created health and wellness division that would include health and wellness unit which we are a part of uh health and safety unit as well as the early intervention system. This position would create a shift within MPD from reactive with wellness issues to being proactive by dedicating full staff to focus purely on wellness trends. The director would co-create and implement a unified vision, mission, and goals and would oversee the compliance process. Lastly, the director would be filled by a nonsworn subject matter expert that would make it inform decision-m making processes. So, why do we need this? Um, first, MPD is needing a leader to co-create a human- centered design approach to the department that prioritizes the health, well-being, and development of its employees so that the community is receiving optimal and safe services. This would look like expanding the offering of programs and benefits that enhance employee wellness and opportunities for professional and personal development. By having our director, MPD would achieve reduced stress amongst the rank and file, improve employee engagement, and foster a positive workplace culture that would directly translate to the Minneapolis community. Next, a director dedicated purely to wellness concerns would demonstrate a strong sense of purpose to improving employee performance and foster a positive and productive work environment focused on self and community care. As stated previously, the department has lacked a nonsworn subject matter expert to lead the wellness efforts and this position would bring the expertise required to lead long-term change and reform. And lastly, the impact of having a director focused on fostering a culture of wellness would demonstrate an investment by the city and establishing a clear commitment in infrastructure to supporting MPD employees and thereby the Minneapolis community. >> So, we asked the question why now? And we recognize that we're asking for this request outside of the traditional budgeting window. Uh, and I want to offer a little bit of a history lesson about how we've gotten to where we are now. Paragraph 254 of the MDHR settlement agreement requires the department to conduct a needs assessment related to the ongoing health and wellness needs of the department. We contracted with a group called the consortium and in that report they offered a staffing plan. Within that staffing plan, they recognized the need for us to appoint a director of health and wellness so that we can make certain that we're providing uh a model of service that aligns with professional best standards. uh someone who is a director who has subject matter expertise who can speak specifically from a non-law enforcement perspective can make certain that we are clinically aligned and uh aligned with like I said best practices related to how we do our work. Alifa adopted that plan from the consortium and in our meetings that are ongoing with them they have mandated us to comply with the terms of the consortium's report. So with that, we have been seeking uh for some time now to attempt to fulfill that staffing plan. Obviously with the staffing shortages within MPD, there's ongoing struggles to fill all of these required FTEEs as we continue to do our work of reform. Uh but nonetheless, we recognize that now is is a time uh we need to be good stewards related to health and wellness. And the reason I say that is we have a significant contract with an external therapy group known as wellness that fits. Um that contract came before this body some time ago and what we need to do is as the members of the internal health and wellness unit we need to make certain that that contract is being used appropriately. We need to make certain that we are plugging in our members who require the use of those services uh and make certain that they are getting those services given to them in the best possible way. I'll uh point to some numbers on the next slide here. But the last thing that I want to speak to as well is recent needs or excuse me recent events and how they have really emphasized the need for this position. Uh I was transferred into health and wellness in August. Uh and what I noticed right away was we underwent the the horrific incident at the enunciation school and on the back end of that Dr. Martyr, myself and our other sergeant who works within our unit. We took the time to really attempt to connect with all of our MPD members and we recognized the struggle that they they had in processing the events of that day as well. Uh we worked to connect MPD officers with the victim's families and we also worked to make certain that our efforts aligned uh up and down the chain of command in terms of administrative needs and we were able to be responsive. We were able to provide administrative days off to those who required them. Uh but admittedly this work was overwhelming for just the three of us uh in in our position at the time. So there's a lot of numbers on this screen here, but I just want to point to a couple of them specifically. First of all, uh 2.76 million that is the allocated maximum amount that can be spent pursuant to our contract for therapy services with wellness that fits. um that is paid out as it is used obviously but there is as you can see a substantial investment from this body already in ensuring that our members of MPD both sworn and nonsworn have access to therapy services. Next the number 89 up here from January of 2026. This is a unique number. In the preceding 15 months we had approximately 450 therapy visits in total from our members. In January of 2026 we saw 89 visits alone. And what this showcases again is operation metro surge incidents such as annunciation as well as just the ongoing stress of being an understaffed department tasked with a monumental amount of reform work has led to an accumulation of stress for the department overall. We're destigmatizing the use of these therapy services and we are doing the best we absolutely can to make sure that support is given where support needs to be given. And on this note, if you look third from the bottom on this slide, you'll see that there have been 15 members who have either separated from the department or gone on what we call PTSD leave since the start of 2026. This is an alarming number and it represents a departure from other recent numbers. It shows that yes, the stress is continuing to mount. We are not through the veil of what took place in 2020. Rather, this is going to be a continuing and ongoing effort that requires continued attention from the health and wellness unit as we continue uh to to attempt to rebuild the staffing of the department. The last slide I'll show here is a proposed org chart for what we would call the health and wellness division. Underlying this effort to seek funding for this position, we are seeking to create a health and wellness division. Uh I want to just note quickly that the green shaded uh boxes within this orchart are sworn positions and the blue shaded are for non-sworn positions. At present like I said I have myself uh as a health and wellness coordinator, Dr. Martyr as a health and wellness manager and then we have one additional sergeant who serves as our peer support team coordinator. The three of us report directly to Chief O'Hara. In this new structure, we hope to bring together the health and safety unit as well as the early intervention system, combine those into a newly formed division of which the director would be the head and then through the director we would report directly to Chief O'Hara. This would allow us to firmly streamline our efforts as we often as the health and wellness unit coordinate our efforts with the health and safety unit as well as the early intervention system. It would allow us to be more cohesive in our own internal communication. And then by removing some of the uh administrative levels between us and the chief, it allows us to be extremely responsive to his needs. And what I mean by that is a lot of what we can do as a health and wellness unit within our department, it relates to uh or it requires the chief's permission in order for us to uh give and provide certain services. by allowing us to report directly to him, we're really able to be much more responsive and much more quick to meet the needs of our members. >> Okay. And I will wrap it up just by talking about the national precedent. Um, so there is a national precedent of having directors of wellness in police departments in response to the increasing recognition of the impact of police work on general wellness of employees. Uh this trend reflects a growing understanding that investing in wellness programs is not just an individual concern but it is a strategic priority for PDs particularly for the communities that they serve. Uh this is again a proactive measure to address the unique stress factors um faced by sworn and nonsworn employees such as working with people in crisis and the potential for trauma exposure. Uh these programs help prevent, reduce, and mitigate the effects of stress and trauma and thereby increase retention. Um this list is non-exhaustive by the way, but we thought we would just um share with you some of the other agencies that are um leading the way in health and wellness. Um otherwise, that concludes our presentation and we're ready for any questions that you may have. Thank you so much, city council. >> Thank you. We have a number of council members in Q. I will go to Vice Chair Chuck Tai. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um I have a few questions and some of those are I think going to be um best directed to the two of you and then some might be more appropriate for uh Miss Miller. Um so just to begin um can you can you both just remind me um of of your roles within the police department right now? >> Yes. Um I can go first. Um so my name is Dr. Meredith Martyr. I'm the health and wellness unit manager. Um, so I am nonsworn employee. Uh, I'm a clinical psychologist. >> Awesome. >> Uh, through the chair, council member, my position is a health and wellness coordinator at the sergeant level. At present, my job is to attend to the everyday needs of the department related to health and wellness. And what that means is we have members who struggle whether it be through family illness, whether it be through stress related to field training. uh and it's my job to provide them the services that we are able to provide and then also to communicate to the administration to receive permission to afford specific services based on needs. >> That's helpful. And you know, I I think I want to um I want to begin by complimenting you on um on a very thorough um and and extensive presentation really outlining what it is that you're you're um hoping to achieve from this position. Um it is not often that we see presentations that are this thorough um as it relates to the creation of a new appointed position. Thank you very much for taking that seriously. I really really appreciate it. Um I know we discussed this during agenda setting and I I just see that reflected so well in this presentation. Um I think uh a piece of the presentation as as you were you were showing us the new proposed org chart um that um I think I perhaps didn't understand correctly hoping to get some clarification here was um Sergeant Hanaman you spoke about how um the the three of you that are in this unit right now um are reporting directly to the chief currently and that um this new structure would allow you to report directly to the chief and those I'm just confused as to you're reporting directly to the chief right now. I don't know how this position makes it more possible for you to report directly to the chief >> through the chair council member. We have what I would call a non-traditional reporting structure at the moment and it's meant to be interim in basis. It is not typical for a manager and two sergeants to report directly to the chief of police. However, we learned through our response to enunciation as well as some other very specific, very intensive events involving some of our members that it was crucially necessary for us to be able to go directly to the chief to be able to provide targeted services. Uh, in our previous model, we reported to a commander who reported to a deputy chief who reported to an assistant chief who then spoke to the chief. Often times, we need to be immediately reactive to time-sensitive needs. And so the ability for us to with all due respect cut out middlemen, go directly to the person who has the ability to grant the ability to use the services uh really made us much more streamlined and efficient. In creating this division, what we seek to do is is put a singular person underneath the chief, a director who can be that go-to person related to health and wellness, and then all of our internal staff could then route directly through a director. >> That that's helpful to know. So I I I think my next set of questions are um about the the um how how this position is going to be paid for as this will be a mid-year budget adjustment. Um there are significant um overtime costs within the department just um this year alone. Um, and so, you know, I have a difficult time really wrapping my head around quote unquote salary savings or savings within the department when it feels pretty clear to me right now that this department is going to go over budget by the end of the year. So, can you help me understand um is all of this being paid for through the embedded social worker contract? >> Um, I can just start with that, vice chair. um and just say that uh I have been in conversation with this and right now um the data that we have is this would be funded via um two positions. So 120,000 would be from the compliance specialist position and 67,000 would be through the Henipin County embedded social worker contractual reduction >> and I think it would be helpful um director Trwick I see that um she's also here today if you can um help me ident help me understand how you identified these as the these this position and then this contract as the place for reduction um to pay for this position. Thank you, Vicki Trzwick, MPD finance director, uh through the chair, vice chair Chug Thai. Um we went through our vacancy list for civilian vacancies. Um I think there's only 12 to 15 on that list. The list is minimal. We did pick uh the compliance specialist because it's already colle uh connected to the implementation unit for our settlement agreement. So the relationship is using a vacant position related to the settlement agreement to address a settlement need >> and help me understand why why the embedded social worker position. Um and and as you're speaking to that if you can just tell me how many total embedded social workers are within the department right now through through the through the county >> through the chair. Council member the embedded social worker there's currently four and we pay $354,000 a year. And we did discuss this with um Leah, the head of Henipin County, to discuss service impacts. Um this would bring us down to three um starting in April through December. That's the $67,000 reduction. And she said that with this reduced compliment, they don't expect a significant impact of the city and that they're open to that. >> Yeah, I I appreciate that. I think I just have a hard time understanding how a 25% reduction to um the embedded social worker program is going to have no impact. But um that um thank you for for that response. I have one more question that um but I have about 30 seconds left. I'll name it now and then Miss Miller can I'll get back in queue for for you to respond um later. Um I'm trying to understand how we landed on this 186 number. Um and you know historically I think it's like an average of step three. Um and and I know that as part of the 2026 budget that process was changed so that um the FTE costs are are calculated based on step one. So, I'm just trying to understand how we went from step one being $132,000 to this position costing $186,000. With that, I'm out of time. I'm sorry. I'm going to get back in queue for you to respond later. >> Thank you. Next, we will go to Council Member Whiting. >> Thank you, Chair Chowry. And as it's helpful, I think I'll probably have questions for for Dr. Marty and Sergeant uh Hannah as well. just want to kind of start and cut me off if if any of this doesn't uh align uh with with kind of what you all understand as well. And so just kind of want to walk through I think it's helpful to bring some some background context into our assessments and the settlement agreement requirements here. And so uh sorry for for the pain uh but just really want I know you all understand it as well. And so, uh, from my understanding, the settlement agreement requires, uh, right 144 pages of of settlement settlement agreement requirements for all things, uh, public safety and policing, uh, in our city. Uh, in particular within those, uh, right, I think it would be really hard to to had every single requirement and request in that document, otherwise it would be thousands of pages. uh and so what I believe the settlement agreement has done uh has kind of outsourced that to uh consultants in other versions to recommend uh that's why we've we've had five assessments um that are required in the settlement agreement and this is one of them the the employee health and wellness assessment which from my understanding was done by the cons consortium is the the consultant that we use the provider that we use to do that um and then within those assessments right they they make a list of recommendations ations u for the city of Minneapolis to do to be in compliance with with all of those uh recommendations that they think is best fit in in public safety in that area for for their specific uh what they were hired for. Um and then once you go through that this the MPD and the city um has to do a plan based on those assessments. And so it is my understanding that then the city has to put together a plan that has those recommendations in there. And that is what the the monitor Alifa would then approve. And so once they approve that, those recommendations based on the assessments that are in the plan that AIFA then approves is where compliance comes. And so if we do not do the things in our employee health and wellness plan, we do not receive compliance. Is that does that sound right? Sorry. >> That was incredibly accurate. Thank you very much. uh city council. >> So then the question is then is this position uh our our director of of health and wellness within I think both the the plan and the assessment just broadly have has that been has this position been included in both of those documents >> through the chair council member Whiting. Yes. So the consortium report specifically identifies a staffing plan. That staffing plan identifies the need for a director. We are then required to conduct or compile what's called an employee support plan. And within that employee support plan, we call out the need to hire for this position. And yes, Alifa uh again, they will not give us compliance until we complete all of the conditions of that employee support plan. And thus in order for us to become compliant, we do ultimately need to fulfill this position in order for them to consider our employee support plan compliant with the conditions of the settlement agreement. >> And then Alifa has approved the employee support plan. Correct. >> Through the chair, council member Whiting. My understanding is that this is an ongoing living document and it will not be deemed compliant until we have fulfilled all of what it is that we have set out to do within that employee support plan. they are in support of our employee support plan. We meet with them monthly and we go over what it is that we are doing to actively work towards completion of that work. But again, um with all due respect, you're the lawyer, not I. And I my understanding is we are seeking to >> achieve compliance through completion of everything outlined within the employee support plan. And then once all of the the the requirements in the plan are done have been proven by the city of Minneapolis that is when the city would be in compliance with such a plan. Okay. Helpful. Thank you. Uh that is kind of all the questions that I have and also just want to give a thank you to both of you uh particularly uh after the efforts of of what we saw at Annunciation. I know both of you were were instrumental um both in our needs not just for MPD but our community as well and I've heard many uh votes of appreciation for your support. So thank you for for everything that you are doing for that work. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Next we'll go to Council Member Wsley. >> Thank you um Chair Chowry. Um thank you for this presentation. And I think this goes back to an ongoing conversation that we're having even just regarding the public safety and wellness center around the ways in which you all bring proposals specifically the administration MPD um through our formal settlement agreement process and as council member Whiting and you all articulated the settlement agreement does not give any direct to-dos. They give a lot of recommendations of you should carry out assessment which you all completed. It does not then say you have to then do all the things in the assessments. Now, this is where looking at Alifa's most recent report uh shared in January 2026, they highlight again it's our task to then do the assessments, the evaluations of all the options in which we could be responded to the concerns um and provisions raised in the settlement agreement. We don't have to adopt all of them. This was one that MPD brought to AIFA um through the request of having um additional dedicated staffing towards wellness and support. Um but as you also highlighted, I'm assuming because I see in the presentation for Welf, you also brought that contract as part of your uh recommendations to LIFA as well for completing health and wellness. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> Great. Okay. So there are things that you already brought to the table, other additional proposals that also can support compliance with the provision in the settlement agreement. Where it's a hard line for me is where we're seeing the settlement agreement be used to then um counteract or undermine other safety services. Particularly the one of concern is the embedded social worker. Um, I will name where we're seeing our neighborhood safety department just share a email, series of emails saying because we are all in a financially challenging position, departments are being asked by the FR administration to make cuts and reductions. They are doing so and have essentially proposed reductions to a variety of their contracts to be able to still meet some critical services, but they've had to make difficult decisions to say we have to go without some things. um where we're seeing neighborhood safety make those reductions. I'm confused as to why this is not happening to with actually that well uh fit contract. So if someone can share with me because as you highlighted and also what's in this presentation, it's about $2.6 million allocated right or sorry $2.7 million allocated to the uh that fits contract. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. May or maybe this is director member. Is there a consideration of why not looking at MPD's exhaustive list of contracts to think through reductions there that could then fill what you're requesting for this as opposed to cutting a social worker position. >> Welcome. So, Chair Chadri, hi. Uh, council member Wansy. Hi, I'm Katie Blackwell. Some of you I've met yet. assistant chief of operations for the Minneapolis Police Department. Uh so just to answer your questions, we did not take this lightly to to cut an embedded social worker. We work very closely with our partners in Henipin County and we know that we couldn't do this work without our embedded social workers or just social worker coverage. uh the ones that when we look through we don't have many contracts and I Vicki could probably speak more to the contract stuff but we looked up and down uh our full-time employee count of where we could do the best we could with um the limited resources we have in certain areas and so in this position if I thought for one minute that this was going to break this um this relationship or the services in any way we would have never even have considered it um but when we looked at it and we're working with them saying what other coverages what other resour source allocations that are dedicated in certain areas. So for instance, when we were looking at cutting one downtown did has two social workers as well. So they're able to help and fill in and that constant collaboration and that communication that we're working with. That's where we decided that we could we could reasonably do this right now. >> Did you look at potentially repurposing and even moving that social worker to, for instance, the third precinct, one of the largest precincts that you have? So, chair, council member Wansy, we we have we had five embedded social workers, one in every precinct. We went >> I thought the reduction So, we got a presentation last term that said you actually again reduced. >> Correct. >> Yes. >> So, we had five, we went down to four. >> Mhm. >> And we worked with Henipin County, the behavioral health director over there, and they were showing us where the referrals were the most were, where there was other segways and pathways for resources in those precincts. And so right now we're looking at another precinct um for this position if we when if we absorb the embedded social worker for this position where there's other resources available. You said where you will absorb because yes last presentation um with the cut to going to four there was a embedded social worker that had to split part-time between two precincts. And also the data showed that there were other precincts again that were getting increased referrals. My whole point is there and I would love an administrative followup on this. I would love to know the analysis that you did of your contracts and actually if you could also highlight in within MPD's budget what is the amount allocated for contracts alone that you could have looked at again using the that fits contract that has $2.7 million already. Um also I can point another one that this body actually had a resolution of support for cutting Zen city. So, I know there's two contracts right off the bat that there could have been reductions that this could have absorbed. So I director uh Blackwood I know you you mentioned you you wanted to do the thorough analysis but I'm having a great deal of challenges to actually believe there was an exhaustive assessment of MPD's comprehensive list of contracts that represents millions of dollars that could have been used to fulfill this position as opposed to cutting a social worker position that other precincts could have also used. and we're seeing over the span of a year be cut down and cut down and that's great that there's relationships with Henipin County that's being maintained around this but either way I think the overall piece is why are we expanding traditional policing positions and then putting that at odds with our alternative services that we know are also helping keep our community safe like our social workers. So my administrative followup because I think this is uh director Troswig's question is what is the total amount right now for the contracts within MPD allocated. I figured you there are staff memo for that and then looking at specifically can this these cuts be absorbed with that fits zinc city those recommendations and I have no time left that's all. >> Okay. >> It looks like um our clerk's got that for administrative followup. We if we are voting on this tomorrow, we're going to need that administrative followup for tomorrow. Yes, chair. >> Thank you. The next council member we have on queue is council member Stevenson. >> Yes. Thank you. Um I have a few questions about the the um positions being cut. Can you explain to me a little more about what the compliance officer being cut, what that position is? I think it's still morning. Good morning, uh, chair, vice chair, and, uh, council members and, uh, chair and, uh, council member Stevenson. Um, the position for the, uh, compliance specialist, is that what you're referring to? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um it's a a position that provides uh kind of the the quality uh assurance and uh um operational internal uh controls and systems to determine whether a personnel comply with MPD policies and procedures uh through our activities through our department. >> Okay. >> In short. >> Okay. In short, um is this is this position coming out of the settlement agreement or was this prior to the settlement agreement? This position is within the settlement agreement and this position is something as uh AC Blackwell uh said we looked at these we were looking at them uh very seriously. We're looking at uh ways that we could have uh the least amount of impact uh and and stay away from having to to lay off employees as well uh and still continue to p provide the services that community members actually are expecting from the police department. uh when we look at these positions, this is the cuts. Um this is a position that uh in all due respect, we may revisit in the future uh at asking um to to bring this position back. However, when we align and look at in uh a uh priority uh of positions, this position fell under the need for the wellness piece because that is also something that is within the settlement agreement as well. uh at least in a suggestive manner uh for us to to provide and as we know and have seen over not just annunciation but even recently um not and not just our sworn personnel uh these are our nonsworn personnel as well who are taking advantage of uh of uh the robust nature that we're trying to provide for them and wellness making certain that all employees are providing service to your con constituents and and as we look at it ours as well um our community members and making certain that when they're going out they're healthy um with no cognitive um impediments uh when they provide service to those who are expecting service from them. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Mhm. Um, so the way that I see this is we're we're being asked uh is which one is more important to Phil right now, the health and wellness director or this uh social worker, which is currently a job that that we're having, and the compliance officer. We're we're being asked to weigh those because it's from what I've heard, it's everything will come back. everything that we're talking about here will be something that you ask for either in the next budget or or or in the future. So, it seems to me like we're not necessarily talking about are these positions going to go on in the future. We're asking which positions do we need right now and which positions can we get at the end of the year. Um, a note on on trauma, on wellness. Um, Officer Haniman, uh, you may or may not know, but it was your body cam footage that showed me getting shot, um, by a Minneapolis police officer. Um, there is trauma to go around in our community. I know that officers are under such intense trauma, witnessing violence, witnessing horrible things. Um, but our community is also under intense intense trauma, being the victims of said violence, uh, being the victims of said terrible things. And so we're weighing, do we want an embedded social worker and a compliance officer or compliance uh specialist to make sure that officers are are following our policies or do we want uh a director of wellness right now? Because it sounds to me like in December we're going to probably be having all of these positions filled again. Um, if you ask me, I think having a compliance specialist and an embedded social worker are a right now need uh and a wellness director is a need that we can fill in December. So, um, I'd like to, if it's possible, refer this back to staff to come up with a different way of funding this proposal. We need this wellness director. Let's fund it not by cutting um a social worker that we desperately need in this city um and also a compliance specialist that we also desperately need. Second city. >> Council member Stevenson has a motion to reser refer back to staff and council member Chavez has seconded. So that is now the motion before us. I am next in queue. Uh, thank you for the presentation. I definitely I definitely see the need for the um director of wellness position. Um, I think a lot of us see the need for that and I want to get to a place of being able to support it. Um, a lot of why I can't support it in the way that it is written >> is the the sourcing for it. And I've had a couple of different meetings with MPD about that concern. Um I think the compliance specialist portion of it, I don't have as much of a concern because I believe we have other compliance specialists that are currently um doing that work. Could someone speak to the number of compliance specialists we have doing the work? And it sounds like there is a certainty that the department will bring back this position. >> Good morning. I think chair, vice chair, thank you. Um, so they are uh >> Could you introduce yourself, chief? >> I'm sorry. My name is Brian O'Hara. the police chief. So the question was uh related to I I quote the tail end of it the compliance specialist and speaking more broadly about uh the numbers that we have right I think. >> Yep. What is the current amount of uh FTES that we have for the compliance specialists roles and work? >> Thank you chair. So there's six positions total four of which are filled. They're part of a larger um the implementation division which was formed uh to implement the requirements of the settlement agreement. Um and so they work collaboratively with you know close to 20 other people that are doing implementation work directly. >> Great. And so then this proposal would bring the compliance specialist FTEES down from six to five and we currently have four filled. Is that correct? >> Yes, sure. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Um, I think that's my only com question for now. I'll make a few comments. I might have another question down the line. >> Okay, thank you. >> So, for me, >> so for me, I don't have an issue with the um compliance specialist portion of it because it's amply filled. And I think uh for me based off of the conversations I had with the police department, it is there's a pretty strong certainty that that's going to come back into the city budget. Um and that that takes care of 127,000 of the total portion. The place in which I have an issue is the Henipin County embedded social worker which is just at 67,000. um uh continuous funding. Um the first reason why I have an issue with taking from this source is essentially we're put in a really difficult position of pitting officer wellness with social work and social work capacity. A big part of public safety for me and the community that I represent is ensuring that we have alternative responses and that we can provide care to community members that need it. Um, in the third precinct, I have worked uh several cases in different constituent issues where we have had to rely on the embedded social worker. We've had to rely on the embedded social worker around issues around um people who are facing uh a form of homelessness or they're unhoused. We have had to work with families um who have kids that are going through a lot of trouble. And for for some of the families that we worked with, there are kids that don't have like an active guardian. Um, in several community meetings, we have had to in in order to respond to constituents and the needs that they have, the response has been, we will connect with the embedded social worker. This feels like the right fit. And in looking at the referral data that we have gotten um across precincts, there's a large number of need. And it's it was already difficult to see these positions go down from five then to four and now see a proposal of it go down to three. I think we should see an increase of social work availability especially as it's connected to Henipin County because they have access into the HMIS system where they can look at all of the things that an individual has connected to the county on prior and that is not something that any of our city staff has. It's a invaluable invaluable resource. Um, I also feel very concerned because we have several now community members and families that have social work needs that are going to present themselves after the peak of Operation Metro Surge and the continued ICE occupation. Families have been torn apart. There are people who are out of work. There are people that are going to fall into homelessness. And um there are families with kids who are mentally traumatized and that was indicated in our own uh assessment report uh economic assessment report where we detailed the cost of mental health services. And so my big ask to the department and my fellow council members is let's find another source for the 67,000. Let's keep the four on. Um, I know that this person is on leave and if we cut this, it would go back to the county, but we need to keep it at the city. And I would love to continue to be on a path where we're advocating for more embedded social workers and get back to having one in each precinct. Um, and so perhaps that's a question to the chief or AC Blackwell. Will you please look at a place where we can find another source for the 67,000 >> chair? Yes. open to uh conversations or whatever suggestions the body has. Yes, of course. >> Great. And thank you. My other request would be that it's it's not a source that is communityf facing where they're doing navigation work with our bilingual community or on the ground and being kind of that type of connector that we rely on. Um I saw a list of some of the potential FTEEs. I think there might be a couple there. Um, but also if we're not looking at uh a position that requires a personnel hire, I think it's 67,000 and we can find that. >> Yes, chair. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Vice Chair Chug Thai. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, Miss Miller, if I could um have you just speak to how we got to this 187,000 number for the total cost when step one is 132,000. >> Sure. Um, Chair Chowry and Vice Chair Chugai, uh, members of the committee. Um, we had a recent change in how we are calculating overall costs when it comes to classification studies. >> Um, and so what it is is we take the average of all the steps that are in a salary schedule. Um, and then add into that estimated benefits, fringe benefits, and um, I'm forgetting something. Um but it's along those lines. >> So last year as the recommended budget was put together, finance um went through this extensive process where they um changed how um current service level costs for FTEES were calculated. Are you telling me that that has changed yet again? >> I can't say from a finance this is where we get into trouble because we've got a finance way of doing things and we've got kind of a complass way of doing it. I was under the impression that we were all in agreement about how this was being handled. Um it is the number that goes to finance for final approval is the average of that >> of those steps and the >> uh you know cost of benefits and fringe. >> Gotcha. It's just I'm seeing a $55,000 difference between step one and the total proposed cost here. So, I just I I I understand that there's some that we we we have like a long-standing problem with systems in finance, systems in HR, how they speak to one another. Um, so this feels like actually another added reason to refer this item back to staff because this is a discrepancy that needs to be figured out before this item is approved. The second thing I will say is, you know, I I think there's um I think there's a little bit of a distinction, you know, as the chair spoke about um the vacant compliance specialist position um and that uh and her level of comfort with uh using that position um as we're looking at the next year's recommended budget. And I I think because we have so many leaders from the police department um in the chambers right now, welcome. We're excited to have you here. Um I I I'll just name that, you know, every other department right now has to tighten their belts and really look at um want versus need. Uh nice to have would make things a lot easier. Mission critical. Um, and I you know this just as well as I do that that that um as the recommended budget is going to be put together for the upcoming year, requests for new positions uh or or new investments are are not going to really be happening for for the next couple of years. So, you're telling me you want to take a vacant position, but then bring it back next year, but then you're doing a mid-year budget adjustment for something that's that's potentially not even going to be included in the current service level for next year. That makes no sense to me. What makes more sense is you should actually just make this request for this director of health and wellness um to the mayor as a part of uh putting together the recommended budget and ultimately the mayor can determine whether that is uh a need that rises to a level that uh that that he wants to include it in his recommended budget or not instead of doing what you're doing right now where you're uh repurposing vacant positions that you intend to bring back. That makes no sense. Um, I will echo what what I've heard from other colleagues here though that um the reduction to the Thank you, Miss Miller. Um, the reduction to the embedded social worker program is that's just unacceptable. I mean, we've we've I remember when this program first uh came to exist within the police department. I remember um I believe AC Blackwell was the the fifth precinct inspector back then and I remember um talking with you about how uh how important it was that this was something that was coming online, how much it was going to take off of uh the plates of 911 um dispatchers who um are receiving frequent flyer calls. Um how much it was going to be an investment in staff, how much it was going to be an investment in in some of those more complicated cases. um and take some burden off of sworn personnel. Um and so, you know, three years ago hearing how how important it was and and how big a deal it was that we were getting the service and now hearing, oh, it's totally fine. We can just, you know, make a 40% reduction to to the the total investment in social workers. It's going to it's not going to impact anything. Nothing's going to happen as a result. That that doesn't that doesn't make sense to me. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Council member Vita. >> Thank you, Chair. Um, thank you, uh, Dr. I'm so sorry I forgot your name, but thank you so much. And, uh, Sergeant Henerman for the presentation. when I was uh reviewing the the RCA, I was very skeptical of this position being moved from the embedded social worker, but after conversations and figuring things out. I really did uh think you all did a good job at figuring out how to collaborate with our partners and eliminate duplicate services. That that was what I saw and like that was the conclusion I drew. And I think there's going to be a lot of that in the future when we talk about budget constraints, how we eliminate a lot of duplicate services that we're doing here at the city that the county is doing. And so you all are kind of beating me to it uh by by doing this. Um I I want Who's the lieutenant in this? There was like this flowchart that you all had up. Who's the lieutenant doing this work? Please. >> Through the chair, council member Vita. Presently, there is no lieutenant within this unit. uh as part of our ongoing efforts to beef up staffing within health and wellness uh we anticipate uh again with Chief O'Hara's guidance that we would ultimately seek to obtain a lieutenant for this unit. Uh the uniqueness about sworn positions is uh within the needs of the organizations personnel can be moved and um if I could speak from the heart for a moment uh wellness is experiencing a tra an extraordinary put bluntly we just don't have enough people to do the work that we need to do. Um, every day on my drive home, I have an hourlong conversation with a cop who's struggling. And really, it's just trying to keep people supported in doing this incredibly difficult job. Uh, it's trying to support them to do this job in a way that aligns with what it is that we're all being asked to do now here today in 2026. Uh the people I'm supporting believe in this mission and really we just need them to uh know that they have a health and wellness team and an administration that's behind them. Um so again, we've been working with the chief to staff up our unit. That lieutenant position is uh is anticipated and planned uh at a potential future date. And really what it allows us to do is meet the needs here and now of the department. >> Thank you. May >> I add to that? Sure. chair. Thank you. Um I apologize. I didn't mean to make you so uncomfortable um standing behind you while you're talking. I just want to add to this, you know, uh this is something u that the consortium, the report, we've been talking about this for at least two years. Is not the first time that we've tried um to make this thing happen. As you know, council member, um I pushed this uh within the last couple of months because I was very concerned. I've lived through um we have lived through um some of our responders who went to enunciation very having very very serious uh mental health issues. Um a member that committed suicide. Um, and then through this, and I understand, council member, of course, the trauma has been overwhelming for everyone in the community over the last few months, but my fear has been when I started to see these PTSD numbers again. What happened here a couple years ago, the PTSD numbers went into I mean, I think well over 200 pretty quickly. And my concern was what are we doing responsibly to try and make sure that we don't have that type of thing happen again. So that's why that's why I felt it was urgent now, but it's not something that we didn't try and bring about. Uh we've been talking about this for at least two years. >> Yeah. So thank you. >> Thank you, Chief. Um also, you know, I really do appreciate you all sharing that data around who's walking in um to get resources for wellness. The culture shift that you are um really focused on right now. I mean I I have uh Father Hayes, I don't know who knows Father Hayes, but Father Hayes is a chaplain for MPD and has been for over 50 years. He lived in my ward for many years and I take him to the 50s grill for a shake and a burger as much as I possibly can. And this is one thing that he's always talked to me about. officer Wellness. And our last conversation, he talked about the overwhelming number of officers who reached out to him after these tragic events we've had in Minneapolis, including annunciation, including the attack on elected officials in our state, including um the ICE surge in the city of Minneapolis and the state of Minnesota. And and what we always talk about is just, you know, how hard it is to get officers to even say that they're going through something. And not just on the professional level. Sometimes folks come in with something already happening at home and then, you know, you respond to a situation that you've never expected that you would respond to. And we've had these huge events happening in our city, but there's still crimes happening every single day. Last week, we had a shooting in North Minneapolis. And I immediately checked in with my inspector to see what I can do to see how people were navigating through the the traumatic scene of two young men being killed in the house with four other uh children in the home and a grandmother and a mom rushing to the scene. And so it's not just about um you know I I understand that it's not about the officer's wellness only, but officers who are doing well treat our community better. officers who show up with having the resources that they need to get things in order for themselves. As someone who's been in several traumatic situations, I will say to you, a officer helped me and an officer wasn't so nice to me in those traumatic situations. And that's why I do this work because I know it matters who shows up when you are your most vulnerable, when you need help. When you dial 911, it's almost always a state of panic that you've never ever experienced before. And so I want our officers to be well. I completely understand how this social worker position and if you can, chief, please go back and figure something else out. I think that's a fair ask for you to go figure something else out. But what I do know is we need our officers to be well, and we need our um our uh nonsworn staff to be well, too. I I com I hope that there's an opportunity for them to participate in this as well. Um but yeah, Chief, if you can go back and figure something out, that'd be great. I I really do hope that this gets a unanimous vote at some point to show that we care about the future of our city and well officers are a big part of that when we talk about uh this implementation, when we talk about um how people show up in community, especially in vulnerable veto >> underserved communities. >> That's your time. Thank you, >> Council Member Whiting. >> Thank you, Chair Chowry. And I think it's helpful maybe to clear up some some clarification, too. And this is this is not a position, right, that MPD just decided to make, right? This has been a position that has been ongoing for two years. Correct, >> chair? Yes, Council Member. >> Thank you. Right. And so this position isn't something that again that MPD is just like, "Hey, we're just going to do this willy-nilly. This has been a plan. This has been brought through by the settlement agreement through the assessments that were required to be completed and thus again through that within the uh health and wellness plan which then was approved through that process not for compliance uh by LIFA by our monitors and so this is something that is again within those confines of the settlement agreement requirements broadly >> chair. Yes, council member. >> Thank you. And I think what is helpful to know and I I have a question probably for our city attorney as well. Um what I you know I'm hearing kind of of comments from the dis that this needs to be mission critical that we need this there there's kind of is this going to come back up. I think there is a there's never been a another example um within the last two years of how missionritical disposition is needed. Right? We've seen it after the aftermath of enunciation. We've seen it over the last two to three months of an occupation um in our city. Uh and I think this position again shows that direct need and that mission critical today. Uh and and so before I kind of ask the question of our our city attorneys, I think what we are seeing and I appreciate our comments of of alternatives in other areas. All right, we just had a presentation that showed uh Baltimore, Vegas uh and other cities that have these positions. uh right and we are seeing fantastic leaps and bounds of of reduced crime um both from those position. I think what we are seeing is I will be somebody every single time that requires and demands a standard of excellence both from our police department um but also those alternatives and I think this is something that again continues to push that forward that we are holding our our police department those alternatives to policings to a standard of excellence in this city. And so those are just kind of comments there. Have about half of my time left. Uh question for our our city attorneys. I think it's maybe helpful for me as well to understand kind of what the city itself is and what we are are are being asked to uh kind of move forward here. Um based it looks like right adapting the findings of this position um and then kind of approving the salary schedules as well. So just would like some clarification on that. Thank you uh chair and council member Whiting. Yeah, the city council is being asked to do two very specific things here. The first is to create this position under the ordinance which is uh MCO 20110. And the question there is whether the position meets the five criteria that that are in the ordinance. Those were outlined in uh Miss Miller's presentation. They primarily have to do with uh things like the level of discretion required for the position that the position reports to to management. It's really a functional analysis of does the position meet the criteria. Um and then the second thing that the council is being asked to approve is to approve the salary schedule for the position in accordance with the compensation plan. And there's documents um in limbs discussing that. Um when it comes there, I know there's been some discussion about the financial piece. Um the city council's budgeting authority is at the department level. So it's ultimately up to a department to find space within its approved budget. um if it's creating a position like this. Um at the end of the day, the city council does not make the decision on where the funds come from within that approved budget if the department can find room within its budget. >> Thank you. And then just as we close up here, um, right, it is my understanding from from our our comments today from our presenters, uh, that right, we have three social workers, embedded social workers, which I think are necessary and helpful for our city and then multiple, uh, compliance officers within MPD IU as well. Uh, right. And we don't have a single wellness director. Okay. Thank you. Council member Chavez. >> Thank you, Chair Chattery. My question would be for someone in MPD, maybe Chief O'Hara or maybe the city attorney's office. Wondering if the settlement agreement requires us to cut a social worker position to fund this? >> Anybody? >> Is there anyone that can come and answer the question for council member Chavez? >> I can answer that. Um, thank you, chair and council member. Uh, no, that specifically is not in the settlement agreement. >> Okay. Thank you. So, one, I support the position in itself. I will just not be supporting the cutting of a social worker position. That is really important to my community that is really important to our communities across the city of Minneapolis. So, my question to Chief O'Hara is what is the plan to make sure that we can vote on this and make sure that we're not cutting critical services for our neighbors? >> Chair, thank you, council member. I don't know what your all procedure is but uh happy to um as as I said earlier happy to you know offer other alternatives in whatever means uh the council prefers to do that >> and is it looking into or a commitment that there will be an alternative source that we will be happy with >> chair council member we will come find an alternative source that uh hopefully will be mutually agreeable to everyone >> okay thank you >> um >> hopefully will be >> I to your question because I think we need to figure out the process for that. Right now there is like a motion to refer back to staff meaning we'll come back another committee meeting and our next committee meeting is on March 24th and then we have our council meeting tomorrow. I think it might make sense to come back on March 24th with a a different proposal. Can we do that? Uh chair um we're hopeful we can resolve this today or tomorrow's discrepancy. >> Okay. I think there might be a couple more follow-up questions I'm hearing from the vice chair. We don't know the total cost. It's this is also not my time. So I'm coming back into queue later. And then I also know that council member Stevenson has the motion that's on the floor as well. So, um, I will get off queue and then if council member Chavez is done with his comments, just want to make sure I don't want to cut you off. You still have time. I will go to the next council member in Q. Great. Council member Warren. >> Thank you. Um, Madame Chair, I just want to say that I am in full and total support and I know that the constituents within my community and the city of Minneapolis of wellness and wellness as it relates to our public safety officers. I think it's important for us to keep in mind that it that we should definitely be focused on taking a proactive approach to the wellness of our officers that are serving within our community instead of paying reactively on the back end when something happens. because that ends up costing our city a whole lot more money than if we take a proactive approach and make sure that individuals who are showing up to serve in our community and ensure the safety of our constituents are in their well and and best operating practice ability. So, um, keeping all of our social workers and making sure that we have one available at each and every precinct and sometimes two if it calls for it, whatever that needs to look like. Um, in addition to the wellness, um, of the work that you're doing because it's a lot. Um I'm also, you know, heard um uh other council members on this body make reference to our violence interruptors and and working out in the field of doing, you know, alternative response work for almost two decades throughout the city of Minneapolis know how important it is to have wellness wrapped around the work that you're doing in that with response to communities. So, you know, it's a delicate dance for everybody, but it's most needed and most necessary because as you know, um, outreach and intervention workers, we don't carry firearms, but our public safety officers do. And so, I want you at your most optimum best practice in all the work that you are doing and ensuring the safety and security and well-being for for um, our community members. So, I'm in full support of this. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you, council member. I put myself in quue um for a question for the city attorney just to clarify a comment that you made earlier um about our ability to make decisions on the budget source and make changes. I feel like that was not in alignment with my understanding. So could you clarify what comment you made? >> Sure. Thank you, Chair Chowy. I mean the when the city council budgets, the budgeting is at the department level. Um and a department within its adopted budget is free to move money within that department budget. So in finding so ultimately what the city council is being asked here to do today is to find whether the position meets those five criteria in the ordinance. Um MPD is saying where they intend to take the money from. Um but ultimately it's up to the department within its adopted budget to find that and that's not something that the council is ultimately approving. Okay. But that does not mean that we wouldn't be able to have the item before us and then change the budget source as an amendment because it is an item that's before us. So like I just want to be really clear like source X council has the ability to swap it for source Y through amendment process. >> I'm going to actually go to my go to the budget chair. >> Well, and council member just one there. There isn't a budget amendment in front of you now. I mean, the the council can amend a department's budget. >> Okay. Can I go to the budget chair? >> Uh, thank you, Madam Chair. Hopefully, I can offer some clarification. I mean, I guess technically this is not a budget amendment, but it totally is. Um, it is it's it's reducing a service to establish a new position. um Minneapolis Code of Ordinances section 20110, which is what is um which is what Miss Miller always presents on when she brings forward these um appointed positions, outlines the process by which um the administration um creates new appointed positions. And the purpose of that is to make sure that appointed positions which have a higher degree of responsibility have um are are um go through a different process around hiring are not represented. Um and and there there there are enormous privileges that come with um being an appointed official. Uh and then there's there's also high potential for for abuse within that process. So just uh that that process in section 20101010 is there to make sure that there's always a um a ve a lot of rigor put into the creation of new appointed positions. Um certainly yes at a at a very technical level we're adopting findings but when new appointed positions are created 20110 um outlines that the council must approve the creation of a new appointed position. And so ultimately, like the real question before us is, do we want to create a new appointed position? The department is telling us how they want to pay for it. Um, and we get to say yes or no to that. By returning this item to staff, it allows staff to submit a new RCA, figure out the the the discrepancy of of the cost of this FTE and how that has been calculated. um which will give Miss Miller some time to go back and talk with finance a and and figure out how what the true cost of this item is supposed to be. Um and then for staff to come back with a different proposal about how they want to fund this position, which might uh be more amendable to the council and might result in the council saying, "Yes, this is an appointed position. We're ready to approve at this time." Um section 20110. Um also, you know, because the authority to approve an appointed position rests with the council, um the council can choose to say this is not a position we want to approve at this time because of uh the way in which you are proposing to pay for it. I hope that's helpful. >> Yeah, that thank you. That's clarifying. Um if you thought you were going to eat lunch at 12:00, you so aren't. Um we got several members still in queue. So I um I feel like we're getting closer and closer on this item. So this is the committee of the whole. All the committees end up here. So we're doing committee meet committee work right now. I I I'll just name I would love to get some clarification from members as we continue to proceed on this refer to staff or this waiting um till tomorrow to see what is proposed. I also hear this question about um the total amount needed for this position and I'm at my time so I will go to council member Palmisano. Thank you madam chair. Council member Chugai appropriately explained some of the comments that I would have had. Um, health and wellness has been a consistent theme that I've pushed on the council since I got here. Stemming from my own experience as a first responder in 2018 as a council member. Um, we even got serious about mindfulness training. Um, that was predicated by a horrible incident in my ward. Uh, but in 2020 all of that went away based on resource constraints is my understanding. Um there are unique stress factors in this environment in this kind of law enforcement work. Um we've talked about that it's okay if the will of this body is to figure out a different funding mechanism. But I also need to point out that we're hearing about officer wellness in new ways in in dstigmatized ways in personal ways that staff has been calling out and that's a really positive direction. Um we as council members really need to foster and not hold back this kind of forward progress. Um it's been a long road and it's really hard to achieve in law enforcement. Um so I'd ask that we move forward with urgency on this matter. I really ask us to not stall out here in pushing that forward progress in our police department which they are demonstrating here. Uh, so I'd ask if we could at least have a chance, a chance, not that this is going to work out, but to move forward tomorrow. I would ask Council Member Stevenson if he'd be willing to hold off on this motion to refer back to staff until tomorrow if we can't figure this out, considering that our next opportunity to consider this in this council structure is three full weeks away. Um, this position definitely meets the criteria that our city attorney pointed out. Um, it's a important position uh to me to have. So, let's approve this position. And if we're looking for a budget amendment, as pointed out by council member Chugtai, that's a different motion. Um, but could we at least wait until tomorrow to refer this back to staff, assuming that we can't get all of the things pointed out earlier accomplished? >> Um, yes, thank you. Chair Chowry also asked me the same thing. Um, and so yeah, I I'm not against this position. I want this position. I just don't want us to cut out a social worker that our community also desperately needs. So, yeah, tomorrow, please come with other funding sources and we can uh deal with it then. >> Great. >> That was me removing my motion. >> Yes. So, that motion is now off the table. And then um Council Member Stevenson, you're in Q, but I assume that's why you were in Q. >> That was why I was in Q. >> Okay, great. And then um we will go to Council Member Schaefer. >> Yeah, I just want to say it's really encouraging for me to hear all of my colleagues um show support for this position. And I hear that across the board and that means a lot to me um to hear that. And I think that means a lot to um the people who have presented us here today and to our uh officer community because we do want to prioritize um those that are on the front lines um dealing in stressful situations um their own personal and mental health. So, thank you to my colleagues for this support and thank you to Council Member Stevenson for clarifying your motion and I will look forward to hearing these new um additions tomorrow and moving this forward. Thanks. Thank you so much, Council Member Chavez. >> Uh, thank you, Chair Chadri. I'm glad that we're going to be figuring this out. I'd just like to make a motion to move it without recommendation just to make sure that we can all be in alignment as we head into Thursday. >> Second. >> Great. That has been motioned and seconded. And that took so many people off of queue. I think many people wanted to make that motion. Um, seeing no further discussion, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> Those opposed say nay. >> That motion carries and then we'll see everyone tomorrow at our full council meeting. And now we will take up our next item. Item number four, which is also our last item, is a presentation about the effects of Operation Metro Surge from our police department. I'll welcome back Chief Brian O'Hara and MPD leadership for this presentation. Welcome. >> Last one. >> Keep it up. Keep it up. Stop. >> It's not real presentation. I said I was going to be good today. I was on my best behavior. Here we go. One more. Yesterday it was Mary, then it was Brian. Who's Who's inviting these people here? Perfect. >> Okay. >> What is this? We're also >> All right. Uh, good afternoon, chair. Um, so, um, thank you for the opportunity to be here. Um, I've tried to get a lot of information, um, in, uh, kind of an organized way. Uh, I appreciate the opportunity to speak about um what were about 12 weeks during this surge um to inform the council about the police department's preparations for this, the policy reform process that led into this um community engagement and really the the challenges that we faced during this. Um, I would say essentially, uh, I'm very pleased with the response of the police department during the last 12 weeks. Um, I will acknowledge that it was not perfect. There are things that we could have done better. Uh, and I will talk about that as well. So kind of a quick overview of what what I'll speak about is I'll briefly talk touch on the state of the department before the surge then kind of go through in an overview of the 12 weeks a timeline some significant events and kind of try and go through chronologically um the experiences the operational issues that we faced how we tried to learn from what was happening tried to adjust u tried to engage engage community during this process um and and sort of a timeline of some key events and then the op the impacts of the surge and kind of our next steps as a police department. So before the surge going into this obviously the the department had started to make gains recruiting and trying to rebuild the ranks of the department. We ended 2025 hiring 125 more people for sworn positions than what we lost. So, the overwhelming majority of those people are community service officers, about 75 of them. Uh, another two or three dozen or so are cadetses and and others in in various stages of their training, but no doubt uh a solid pipeline of people to try and rebuild the department. There were also some significant uh declines in in major categories of crime. Murder was down. The number of shootings was down again, autotheft, burglary, and some significant decreases in robbery as well. In addition to just the the crime statistics and personnel, um we we were starting to make progress in responding faster to calls for service uh from from members of the community in the city uh without having a any notable increase in staff. So in the years prior to 2020, the police department typically responded to life-threatening emergencies in 7 minutes or less. that had gone to nearly nine minutes in the years since and right before the surge we had gotten it down to about seven and a half minutes uh without any significant increase in staff. We'd also implemented some reforms in how the department was responding to domestic violence and starting to see uh greater impacts both in uh the number of arrests that were being made and decreasing the amount of uh response time. So the the overall three prongs of of the year prior going into this particularly when we talk about reform we're talking about the community engagement and learning sessions that were happening the policy directions uh directives a lot of the reform work that have been happening and the departmental uh trainings a little bit deeper into that we had uh 29 policies that had been approved through uh the MDHR and AIFA process. We implemented a a policy uh resource hub which is essentially an app uh that better manages uh both the dissemination of policy uh and it's also kind of better user friendly. Uh previously the policy manual is just simply a PDF document a 700page PDF document that was not uh easily accessible in the field. The department last year completed over 20,000 hours of training that was delivered to members. Uh and in terms of the settlement agreement, there were there were 24 focus groups, uh 10 community sessions, and really countless uh perhaps hundreds of pages of uh feedback that was received that went through uh went into the policy reform process. Now, as the surge was talking specifically about immigration issues, we also had revised policy around the MPD's internal policy on how we respond to immigration matters. And that's the written formal policy. Um, this had uh si significant uh impact uh significant input from community stakeholders including the uh civilian commission for police oversight, the mayor's immigration task force, and just community members at large posted online. People were able to provide us feedback on what they wanted to see in the department's policy in regard to immigration enforcement. An added uh what I think benefit uh of trying to do this process is also to try and help educate the public about what police can and cannot do around immigration enforcement. Um so I think uh because we went through this process you know in the six months five or six months before December I think we were in an even better position uh as an agency once the surge did occur. So, I was setting out the 12-week period from December 4th uh through the 24th. Um and and obviously this is the time that the surge happens in the city. Overview a timeline here, beginning of December, uh when the surge is announced, um the first significant incident, um I would say happened around December 9th. Uh there was an American citizen that was arrested in the Cedar Riverside uh neighborhood. And I would say that's probably the first uh significant incident um that kind of got a lot of attention. By December 15th, there was an incident at uh 29th in Pillsbury. Um, and really the way both calls came into 911 and the way the police department responded, that's the first uh changes that I began to make to how the department was uh was responding to this stuff. So, what happened on December 15th is there was a 911 call that eventually came to MECC and it was toned out citywide as a help call. And that means the there's a you know beeping noise that comes on the on the police radio and it really sends all avail all available officers in the city uh to a specific location. And what happened that day was the information that came into 911 uh later proved to not be accurate. It was a report that several uh people were assaulting actively assaulting uh uh federal agents. Uh the officers wound up responding uh and it was a crowd control situation, but there were no active threats of of violence that the officers received. And the MPD wound up clearing the scene very quickly, uh I think in about 9 minutes. And um what I learned from this was we we were very quickly experiencing a dramatic increase in calls for service and it was very very heightened tensions in the community. And so what I wanted to happen was as the calls came in, I wanted to have a designated supervisor to be responsible for fielding these calls to try and get as much information as possible. And if there was an event where legitimately there was largescale violence or a situation where a federal officer needed to be rescued, um that we would instead of just randomly sending police to the scene, we would have a supervisor in charge that would be able to get independent information, whether it's live stream, cameras, uh drone footage, that sort of thing, and designate a supervisor to be in charge and to assemble police officers to go in with a plan so that they could go in safely and get out safely as quickly as possible. And so after this incident, that's when we started to have a designated supervisor on duty around the clock that would be responsible for fielding all of these events. By January 5th, that's when the announcement comes that there's an additional 2,000 more agents. It's believed that there were well over 3,000 agents in the city at that time. And to put that in perspective for all of you, um there's there's about 10,000 licensed peace officers for the entire state of Minnesota. So, we were talking about over 3,000 federal agents uh here just for this surge. It it it tells you the volume uh and just really how overwhelming a lot of these actions could be. Um, as that was announced, I ordered every sworn member of the department to be in uniform. So that included our investigators, people that are typically not in uniform because of their duty assignment. I wanted everyone to be in uniform in case of an emergency so that they'd have to deploy out on the street. And then literally the next day, uh, that's when Miss Good is killed. Um, and so that becomes the first time that we really have to mobilize the entire department. Everyone was already in uniform. We began calling in for mutual aid. And I I can get into some of that uh a little bit more uh ahead. The following week, obviously, we have a non-fatal shooting on the north side. Um there's a a vice the vice president visits downtown during a lot of this. Uh and then obviously January 24th, Alex Prey is killed. um until finally then uh few days after that the the border patrol commander is reassigned and eventually we start to experience the draw down. I think um we've all lived through this and it's just been so much. Putting it into perspective, December is when we're dealing with a lot of harassment around some of the the Somali businesses and some of the ethnic businesses that kind of morphs into uh really just a a volume of bomb threats that we wind up getting um as as different schools and religious institutions, businesses, different places around the city. So all this stuff uh just continues to to morph. This is the 29th in Pillsbury. This is the incident I mentioned where the officers responded to the help call. This ultimately led to me assigning a full-time lieutenant to screen these calls and developed a sound tactical plan, assemble officers if we need to go in on a report of uh large-scale violence, that kind of thing. This lieutenant was staffed in the new uh first precinct. They were supported by civilian personnel, community service officers who helped uh you know monitor social media and live feeds. Also the the uh city's cameras to help try and get real time information around what was actually happening in the city. And obviously Renee Good is killed on the 7th the day before the department. Uh everyone's ordered to be in uniform. Everyone has all their equipment. The department uh rapidly responds to the scene and this is the first time we activate our incident management team. Um we recalled people to duty that were off duty and that's something that we wind up doing multiple times for the duration uh of this operation. It's also the first day that the department largely transitions from doing conventional policing in the city to really being in a state constant state of being prepared to do public order policing. So, we're, you know, we're pulling officers out of their usual assignments. We're pulling officers out of neighborhoods, pulling officers away from investigations uh in order to uh assign them to secondary functions and really be in this uh kind of heightened state to be prepared for public order policing in the city. All sworn members of the department are are are recalled. Uh we communicated and asked for, you know, mutual aid from state, county, and local officials. Um and and I have to say that this this continued um it's it seemed as everybody knows it continued and continued seemingly to escalate without end uh for quite some time. I have to say though this scene in particular, this is the first time. There's many times since then. Um I cannot thank enough the council members that are here. Um all the council members uh starting on this day, we all know um just how angry and frustrated people were. The council members were out there themselves on the line trying to help us deescalate things um not just this time but several times after going forward and then later being joined by members of the community who helped us through this. So, um, we all know how tense and how real and how much the potential was this day and going forward. And I'm just I'm very grateful to our residents and to council members, state officials, uh, state representatives and and state senators that were there with us through this trying to deescalate things. So, we begin in this sort of public order footing, Operation Trust and Safety. We're obviously very concerned um to be able to respond quickly uh in the event of any significant unrest uh and destruction in the city. Also, what's happening at this time is we began planning uh to to support uh the vigil site that is there and we also start having the first of uh of hotel protests that are happening. So during this time all days off are cancelled. Everyone's been reordered uh ordered back to duty. Um we're on this sustained deployment period. Um and just trying to uh trying to develop uh some sense of um predictable procedures for our officers as we were going through just a very unpredictable uh event that was continuing to unfold. What was also destabilizing for us as I'm sure for the larger community is that we while we were doing this and while you know there was all this emotion and frustration over what happened we were still seeing immigration enforcement happening in ways that were disturbing to the community on the street. Um during this time we came up with a plan for the vigil site. Uh we wound up uh assigning a camera there, having some dialogue officers, there's members of the community, both regular residents, community organizations that helped us that came to the scene, tried to deescalate again, tried to just be present with folks who were upset, try and have a conversation, bring some of the officers into the conversation, and it was just uh I think it was just critical uh to kind of lowering the temperature and helping us be there to preserve the peace. the following week. Now, uh there's a non-fatal shooting on the north side, and this kind of gets everybody obviously by surprise. This is not an event that uh that was foreseeable. Um and so there were there were significant staffing challenges getting people to the scene, not just for us, but for the outside agencies as well. Um the MPD uh secured the scene which wound up proving essential for having accountability in this case. Uh it's camera footage that was recovered by the MPD that I believe uh wound up making a significant difference in this case. Um this event started with a vehicle pursuit that wound up going through uh North Minneapolis and resulted in a shooting um off of Lindale Avenue. The scene became uh very hostile at times. There were federal uh officers, federal agents present that were deploying uh chemicals, chemical agents repeatedly um in a manner that we would not. Um, and I think wound up just adding to uh sort of the the increasing of tensions that that were there at the scene. Um, ultimately there were fireworks that were being thrown at police, ice, all kinds of things. Uh, we had reports of people needing help at this. There was a six-year-old child that officers had to get to because the federal agents uh had deployed tear gas and there was a child that was in respiratory distress. Uh there was at least one or two other calls for help that wound up being unfounded, but the officers tried to uh locate people that may be in help in need of help. Um and it was definitely a different scene from the week before. Um ultimately uh ultimately it became uh a scene where the police department the first time since I've been here uh the police department deployed chemical munitions themselves. Um and we deployed chemical munitions for the purpose of safely evacuating the officers at the end. There had been chemicals used for hours uh during this event. Um and it was increasingly tense before that. Uh but once our officers needed to leave, it had become so unsafe that they did that as a way of trying to evacuate our officers without anyone else getting injured. Um that was informed by in part not just how volatile this scene was, it was also informed by the experience that we had the week before. The week before the crowd was different and it was largely uh largely peaceful. But as the officers were leaving uh that scene, I'd say the last 10 to 15 minutes of it, um things did deteriorate and there were a number of police officers uh and at least one state trooper that was injured as the officers were leaving. So, uh, to get our officers off of this scene safely, um, and to prevent, you know, the the use of any batons or physical force or that kind of thing, I made the decision to to authorize gas to be deployed on that night. There were a number of demonstrations obviously that occurred. Um, this this one on the 17th is significant because obviously there were people that came in from out of state um that were threatening to burn a Quran on city hall and march through city of Riverside and uh potentially generate uh significant unrest. There was a very significant concern as tense as things were. Um there were a lot of uh planning, a lot of engagement that went into this with the community, a lot of help from outside agencies. The the uh state patrol and the National Guard were actually uh uh staged on the on the interstate highway if they were needed. Um, and I I think it's important just to mention in the context of these 12 weeks, we received 518 911 calls related in some ways to protest. So that's whether people are reporting that there's, you know, somebody standing in the street or somebody's making noise or something. There were 518 calls related to that. Um but of those I believe there was 97 marches or protests that we tracked that were specifically related to operation metro surge and again related to this um you know ultimately the march never went to Cedar Riverside. There were um a lot of community based organizations that were working with us. our inspector, our deputy chief was present in uh Cedar Riverside with a lot of the elders. Um many of us had met with community members beforehand and this largely uh this largely uh went off peacefully. Then uh the third shooting and second fatality. Um this was a Saturday morning. Again, this was unplanned and so um it was certainly a challenge uh staffing-wise. I would say that this day is the closest that we came to having uh large-scale destruction in the city. Um there were during the course of this there were two small fires that started uh at the scene during the day. Um the the fire department actually had to evacuate their station because there was just there was just too many people in the street. They were responding from an alternate site. Uh and we were getting um a lot of calls, especially in the evening from people who had been out there for weeks, all these demonstrations and stuff saying that they were they were worried that the vibe was just kind of different. Um and just with the talking with the fire fire uh chief um Chief Rucker, you know, we were both really concerned that we could get into a situation where despite the tens of thousands of people that were here peacefully and and really dozens and dozens of people that were helping the police deescalate things at these scenes, literally intervening so that the cop didn't have to to correct people that were out there. that was happening repeatedly from random members of the community. Despite all that, we were concerned that a bad actor could start a fire and we just we wouldn't be able to get the fire department in there quick enough or somebody could loot a store on on Nicollet Avenue on each street and we wouldn't be able to get down there fast enough. So that was that was the worry. Um and so that night uh with with the fire chief, we made a joint recommendation to uh to essentially cut off vehicular traffic into the area to allow people to gather for a vigil, but to try and decrease the likelihood of outside people coming in with flammable materials, with accelerants, that kind of thing. Um that could cause large-scale destruction uh to the community. And so, uh, we think that was helpful. Uh, and we're just we're thankful for everyone that was with us through this and and all of our residents and everyone who made sure that people were not allowed to cause destruction to the city. This is the most significant day, I guess you could say, in terms of uh, you know, demand for mutual aid, that kind of thing. It was about a 24-hour period that um, Minneapolis police were not responding. For the most part, we were not responding to calls for service in the city and it was primarily being handled by the St. Paul police. Uh it took a lot of it the university police um and a number of uh surrounding suburban jurisdictions as so many of the officers uh were redeployed on on uh these other public order type uh type details. But ultimately uh we were very quickly uh able to reopen the zone. The zone uh that night collapsed in as crowds left. Public works was able to work to clear the streets, clear the roadways and really by the next day have a safe, respectful place that could develop uh as as a vigil site and thankfully without you know people inflicting further damage on the community. There's obviously there's about 12 hotel press protests that happened during this thing. They targeted five hotels in the city. There's a number of hotels outside of the city that were targeted. Um but they talking about the ones in the city. This one on the 25th. Um I mentioned there's some things that we, you know, we could have done better. This is one we could have done better. Um this is an event that was another event that was unplanned. Um we had the vast majority of the department working 18 straight 18 days straight for extended tours without a break. Um and we just we just were not able to get officers there uh fast enough. Um we assembled our we recalled our uh standby folks, our strike teams that would deal with this type of thing, the booking elements that you know can make uh make arrests. They came in quickly. Uh but by the time they got to the scene when we arrived at this hotel, there were federal agents coming out of the hotel with rifles pointed in the same direction where our officers were approaching. So they disengaged. Um and it wound up being federal law enforcement dealing with the crowd and then we came back in later uh with public works um to to clear things up. Um it's important also to just to notice uh to note the date. I mean, this was this was Sunday the 25th. Um, we had a number of people that came in uh that that typically do this work that came in at 3:00 in the morning that day because they were working in that zone around the vigil site to help public works to clear things out. Um, and it just it highlights just with all of this, we're not built to sustain these largecale public order policing, you know, operations for weeks unending. Um, we did work with the hotels prior to all this. There's about 40 hotels in the city that were connected with a single lieutenant that we were sharing information with so that they could prepare on their own as this quickly became a thing in early January. But again, this was one uh this was one that wasn't on anybody's radar. And the other challenge dealing with all of this is there were still things happening in the suburbs. um the stuff with hotels, other things happening in the suburbs. The state patrol was needed elsewhere. Sheriff's office was needed elsewhere. Suburban towns had their own needs. It was very difficult to get uh mutual aid, sufficient mutual aid, which was again another reason why uh I I had been pushing uh to have the National Guard available um you know, quickly. We didn't need them that night. They were the only time they were deployed was on the 24th after Alex Prey was killed just to help us secure uh the neighborhood around that vigil site. There's one other protest after that. I mean there were multiple protests at the Graduate Hotel. That's the jurisdiction of the university police. Uh we had been standing by I think the majority of the other times uh and would only go in if they called us this night. Uh this night uh we were uh pre-planned to be there with them. Uh as well as the state patrol, the DNR and the sheriff's office. Uh this is one of the nights there were uh mass arrests and I believe there were there were 67 arrests that were made. Majority of them I think just cited and released. um demonstrations in general in January. Um of the largest demonstrations, Powder Horn Park, January 10th, tens of thousands of people. We think downtown on the 23rd, tens of thousands of people. On the 30th, tens of thousands of people. There was zero arrests on the 23rd and on the 30th. There was one arrest on January 10th. Uh and that's after the main element of the protest had finished. There was one person that was following a group that kind of splintered off that um we became aware was vandalizing buildings along Lake Street and we're able to follow him on camera and and arrest the person. But at these protests and marches, overwhelmingly no uh in no uh notable incidents, there was a lot of coordination beforehand with these larger events between the event organizers uh members of the police department to try and support them safely. Uh and they were just really wellorganized um and really very safe events. There's a number of times that uh barricades were cleared uh throughout the city and we still get calls on this. I think there were calls over the weekend. I don't think any of any anything was uh uh I I think they were unfounded the calls over the weekend, but starting uh on the 7th when there were barricades around the neighborhood uh at the first vigil site. Ultimately, we worked with public works to open the roadway, to ensure public safety, ensure the fire department had access. Um, and and there were calls that were coming in during this time. There were there was a baby not breathing call uh on the Portland Avenue corridor as well. Um, so I think this largely worked out well. Um, there have been community members that were making complaints. I think for the most part um we're able to respond in a coordinated way with other city departments and again get through this not just these but get through all of these incidents with a really really minimal uh use of force by the Minneapolis Police Department. So the aftermath um as of the 15th um it was obviously 12 weeks a very high stress situation. It could have been a lot worse for all of us and our community. Um and I just uh I I can't I can't emphasize enough how many random uh residents uh that did their part. Not just the everybody talks about the peaceful protesting stuff. They did their part to try and help us deescalate things when people were trying to uh you know create a scene, you know, get people to uh you know do things, step out of line. There were there were many many times that residents of the city uh move to deescalate and to help us keep the peace and and we're thankful for that. During this time, there's about 50,000 calls in the CAD, the the computerated dispatch system. It's difficult to tell uh what you know, everything the the world of everything that was related to this because there's all different types of calls that came in that were related to this in some way. So, talking with the 911 director, I think we're we're estimating it's about 10% increase. It's about 6,000 uh more calls than usual uh during during the January time period. Um there were over 1,000 days off that were cancelled for uh sworn members of the police department. 500 shift extensions. Um we mentioned the PTSD cases earlier. U nine officers were injured. Uh a majority of them were injured uh during the uh while leaving the first scene on Portland Avenue. Um one officer had, you know, something broke the window of the vehicle that he was in, got some glass in his eye. Another one got a concussion from being hit by some ice. Uh and the officers um the officers were out there and rightfully so the way I am dressed uh that day. um you know they they were not out there and you know with helmets on and riot gear. Um the crowd was safe so we ensured that they matched what the crowd was doing. They took that equipment off uh and it was fine for the majority of the day. Uh but we learned from that when we were trying to leave uh after federal agents had left. We held the scene so that the BCA, the FBI could process the scene. They could get the evidence that was required. Uh it was in the process of leaving the scene that things kind of deteriorated from a handful of people. Um so we learned from that and uh we'll we'll continue to try and learn and and make adjustments as best we can. There's been about well at least $5.2 million that was spent additionally on police services. the overwhelming majority of that is overtime, but there's also the change there's other contractual obligations that uh the city has. So, there were shift extensions, change of tour, there's some expense with all of that. Um, we have to put large groups of people on standby to come back in at night in case there's something at the hotels, there's standby pay that they get. So, the overwhelming majority of that is is overtime, but there's other costs that are included with that as well. Um, we worked very deeply uh with all of the law enforcement community. We had a range of agencies from the the county attorney's office was in the the command post with us several times from to the suburban departments, the state agencies. Um, and really everyone kind of worked seamlessly together and just a number of community organizations and residents that stepped up and answered the call when we needed help. uh you know trying to trying to have dialogue and and um and deescalate things. The uh two of our lieutenants uh Lieutenant Oor uh managed the site um on Portland Avenue and Lieutenant Duke at the 26th and Nicollet Avenue. And I think they did a great job coming up with engagement and safety plans, involving the community, trying to get dialogue officers out there, trying to ensure um really throughout all of this, in everything that we're doing that we're not showing up in a way that kind of adds to the stress or or unnecessarily escalate things. And they did a lot of work with community uh to help us do that. And they did a great job. Uh we maintained security at the sites initially 24/7. We put video on it uh and then made adjustments based on the operational need as you know things were happening as the crowds decreased that kind of thing. We coordinated the the delivery and and removal of uh debris that was at the sites. Uh coordinated some compost bins and to help clean up the bus shelter on Nicollet Avenue where a lot of uh flowers had been left uh that then uh needed to be retrieved uh after they had died. um worked with chaplain, faith-based organizations, community violence interrupterss, really a large range of community partners to try and help assist at these sites. Uh our crime prevention specialists were out there to help answer questions and a number of city departments uh were helping as well. This is a mix of reports, police reports that are notable. It's not an exhaustive list and some of the calls that are notable and obviously not exhaustive. So, we have uh the two fatal shootings and the one not fatal shooting. Those are reported by us. All three instances. I immediately requested the BCA to respond uh which they did. Uh and and you know, they have uh they have that investigation uh on their hands. That's not uh that's not an MPD investigation in any of those cases. In terms of the non-fatal shooting, uh we provided that night. We provided some video uh that I believe uh makes a dramatic difference uh in that case. There were a number of abandoned vehicles. There's three instances that it's a shooting on the north side. After we left the scene and got the officers out, we were observing it in surveillance video. We realized that three specific vehicles were being targeted by the crowd that was there. uh and realized that uh federal law enforcement had left three cars there. So, we had to reassemble teams with a couple of of uh flatbed tow trucks to get in there, recover the vehicles, and ultimately uh try and account for what was inside. Ultimately, there were some I believe there's some firearms that were stolen uh that have since been recovered, as well as some uh some other materials. There's two police reports that we have, investigations that we have, excuse me, that would constitute misdemeanor assaults if they're proven to be crimes. Um, the status of those is it's it's gone through the normal process. Um, the issue is we don't know the identity of uh the individual agent. So, the status of those is we've been in communication with the Office of the Inspector General uh for the Department of Homeland Security. We believe one person is u federal agent with ICE, the other one with Customs and Border Protection. Uh we have provided them video evidence, the inspector general uh that we have of that and have requested uh the identity of uh of the agents involved. Um so waiting to hear back uh if we get further information from them. If not, we'll seek uh legal counsel from the city attorney where further we could go from there. seven calls specifically related to uh chemical canisters that were left. Uh and then there were 12 accidents that happened in the city that involved uh federal law enforcement in some way. Uh you know, one case on the north side a couple weeks ago. Um I think at Penn and Penn and Broadway, they were chasing somebody and one of the vehicles they were chasing hit somebody else. So that's one of the things that's in there. other cases. There's at least one where they crashed and abandoned the vehicle that they were using. So, we tried to give some sense of the reports that are out there, the calls that are out there, but it's it's it it is kind of all over the place. And looking forward, um I mentioned we had this full-time lieutenants position that was developed after the December 15th incident. I intend to keep that position staffed. And what I'd like to do now is use that person to help manage response times citywide. Uh as calls for service spike up in different parts of the city, ensure that we're doing everything we can uh to get our response times back down to where they should be. Um we're going to continue to using uh we utilize our civilian uh CSOS to help with the cameras to address crimes in progress. They've uh they've done a great job doing that. continue to evolve with our policy development, engaging stakeholders, um, and and really trying to build on some gains that I think have been made with community partners during this incident. So, looking ahead, I mean, um, it's not true, uh, you know, you might see out there that just crime went down during this thing. That's not true. Uh, some crime did, other crime went up. And the problem is when you pull investigators and you pull cops out of the neighborhoods because you have to do all this public order policing, we have a lot of work we have to get back to uh now that people are back to it. There was a significant increase in uh autotheft and some damage to property uh work that we are working on now. Um we're working on uh getting back to where we were with response times. I think the last last week we were back down to about 7 minutes and 40 seconds on average responding to emergency calls in the city. Um and I want to make sure we're doing everything we can to get to our residents as quickly as we can when they need help. And uh you know we mentioned we had a extensive discussion on the wellness stuff before as I mentioned earlier you know kind of going into this there were a couple of incidents serious mental health incidents involving uh employees and then this thing happens you know and dur during January very quickly you get a dozen people filing for PTSD and that was very concerning for me. Um it's important to mention I I know the whole community hasn't processed uh you know and dealt with trauma from 2020 then this thing happens again and that this you know this surge happens. Um it's just it's important also I know it's difficult for everyone in the community. It also has taken a lot of the officers back to where they were and some of the feelings they had in 2020. So, I was just uh very concerned that we try and be as proactive as we can to make sure not only that they're well and capable of showing up the way the community expects them to, but I don't want people to leave. Um we cannot have a mass exodus like we had uh after 2020. And that was kind of the biggest fear I had through this whole thing that seemed like it was never going to end was that we would have something terrible happen. we would have significant civil unrest and then we'd have this dramatic increase in crime again and and people leaving the police department. Uh and just thankfully um most of that did not happen. Um the other the other issue obviously is uh financial um it was an extreme hit uh on the budget uh for the police department, the overtime budget. have sent uh weekly memos uh on this. Uh just the the enormous expense it's been to cancel days off, to hold everybody over, to do all these emergency recalls um is just something that that we have to figure out going forward. So happy to take any questions. >> Thank you, Chief. First on Q, we have Council Member Chavez. Thank you, Chair Chattery, and thank you, Chief, for being here. On December 15th at 29th in Pillsbury, I saw MPD help the facilitation of a kidnapping of two of our neighbors by ICE when they did crowd control. Do you have an update on this case and did it lead to any discipline? >> Chair, council member, um there's uh there's several police reports that were written that day. There's uh video uh from the officers that responded that day. Um there there to my knowledge there's been no complaints specifically about the behavior of any police officer from MPD that day. Um that's the incident I spoke about earlier. Um my concern was that we were just immediately sending cops to the scene. The call came into 911 and immediately the the there's a long steady tone that comes on the police radio and they said officers need help at 29th in Pillsbury. So randomly people from all over the city, cops from all over the city wound up going there without any understanding of what they were getting into. Uh and from the time they arrived uh to the time they left the scene was a total of of 9 minutes. Um the officers um from what I have seen the officers didn't have any interaction uh with with anyone that was being arrested uh or any of the other uh incidents that happened there that have been uh reported in media. So >> uh thank you chief. So you're saying that there was no complaints about this case whatsoever. >> Chair council member uh to my knowledge no. What I remember that day was uh a lot of inquiries about why was MPD there in the first place. Um and to me I I had the same thing. Why did we just directly respond to the scene? Which is why we implemented uh procedural change immediately after that. Created that designated lieutenant to field these calls uh before they go out. They're not like if the state patrol calls us and says there's a trooper that needs help on 35. It's just not the same thing. Um, so the police were being sent blindly into those situations without any awareness of what was happening. And that's why I wanted to change it because it's both uh it's not it's not good for anybody. These types of things were so volatile, large crowds of people. We needed we needed to better know what was actually happening. determine whether or not we needed to respond. Uh and then if it was the case where we would need to respond, we need to have a plan with a supervisor to to go in before that happens and that's why those changes were made afterwards. >> Okay. So, I just want to clarify there is no complaint. There is no discipline. Mayor Fi didn't reach out to you when I texted him about my concerns this day. I >> I was there so I saw MPD literally escort ICE and escort the deportation or the kidnapping of two our im of immigrant neighbors. So I literally was there and I'm just concerned that there's no discipline, no action taken, maybe some changes made. So there's no complaint. I'm confused. >> Chair, council member, to my knowledge there's no complaint. I don't know if there's a complaint in intake. Maybe >> I reported this to the mayor and I'm just wondering the police department do anything to address these concerns. Has there been discipline? chair, council member, there's been no discipline. Um, from what I remember, there were a number of calls that I got and the PE things people were asking me was the same thing I wanted to know was why were we there? Uh, and then just making sure that our officers acted in accordance with uh the policy at the time. We can review the whole incident. It's easy. Um, and there's extensive police reports. There's reports from the officers who responded, what they saw, what they did, and there's body worn camera video. We we can review all of that. >> Okay. I would love for the department to review what happened that day because it definitely was something that should never happen ever again in this city. It just should not be a part of law enforcement to assist ICE in that way. Um the other question I have is in early December, Chief, you were quoted saying if unlawful force is being used by any law enforcement officer against any person in the city and one of our officers is there. Absolutely. I expect them to intervene or they'll be fired. Based on today's presentation, it appears as though no MPD officer has intervened in the countless documented examples by our constituents of unlawful force being used by law enforcement people in this city by law enforcement. In this instance, I'm talking about ICE federal officials. >> Am I understanding this correctly? >> Chair, council member, uh the duty to intervene is established by law in Minnesota. The only loophole is the law only applies to people who are licensed as peace officers in the state. Um, I've very clearly communicated my expectations to the officers here that I expect them to intervene whether it's a sheriff's deputy, a state patrol, a Minneapolis cop, or somebody else. The reality with that is the officer has to have an opportunity to intervene. If we're not sending officers out there in the first place, you know, you would need an officer to be present to observe some egregious ongoing uh use of force. It's talking about use of force specifically to duty intervene like uh like the Rodney King incident, like uh George Floyd. What happened to George Floyd? The officer would need to be present to observe it and have uh an opportunity to physically intervene. that expectation was communicated very clearly and at the same time uh I realized that we were not present the overwhelming majority of the times that things happened and that's specifically because they were following the policy that had been developed in the months previous to this. Um but that expectation was real and I know um the officers were quite aware of it as well because I would have expected myself or any officer who did intervene in an egregious use of force situation despite it being the correct and moral thing to do. I would expect us to be in handcuffs by the end of it. But it didn't mean that we were not prepared and willing to do that. >> Okay. So, Chief, is it your position that in the 3 months since you made those comments publicly, MPD did not witness a single solitary instance of unlawful use by federal law enforcement officers against anybody in Minneapolis? >> Uh, chair, council member, it's my position that uh there is no incident where it would have been possible for an officer to intervene based on uh the duty intervene statute, what that means. Um, but if there's any specific incidents, you know, the good thing is we can we can look through that. We have video, uh, we have reports. Uh, we know when and where our officers were. So, if there's any incident specifically, we're we're happy to review that. >> Uh, just really quick, um, so I was in discussion with the clerks before the the the discussion started. As chair, it doesn't feel right for how robust of a conversation this is. and the fact that we moved this to another day to put time limits on council members um and also limits on the number of times that you can get in. So, use speaker management until you're locked out of it and then move to your tags. We do have to get out of the space by 2 p.m. because that's when we lose captioning. So, you may continue and you may continue. >> Thank you. I just have I just want to ask again, Chief, and then I have a few comments and I'll be done. I just wanted to make sure I got clarification. So, is it your opinion, at least from what you've experienced and what you've heard leading the Minneapolis Police Department, that there have been no instances where an officer has seen federal law enforcement violate the law, I guess, is my question. >> Uh, chair, council member, no, >> that's not what I'm saying. >> Great. That's good. Um, thank you. U, I guess what I'll just I just wanted to answer that question and I'll finish it because it looks like we're running out of time. In conclusion, I just want to wrap things up by saying that what we heard in this presentation today is not fully aligning with what our constituents have faced on the ground in particular. We have videos, we have photos, we have personal experiences of what the abuses of federal law enforcement has done to our constituents here in Minneapolis. We know that our neighbors in particular have been directly impacted. They have witnessed multiple times the the cruelty and disregard of public safety by ICE and federal law enforcement in this city. This is an occupying force that has literally disregarded the law of our constituents. We know that constitutional observers have had their vehicles destroyed, even murdered by law enforcement officers at the federal level. We know that peaceful protesters were repeatedly gassed and beaten simply for exercising their First Amendment rights. And our neighbors have been kidnapped based solely on the perception of their race, the skin color, and who they are. And speaking for myself in particularly, I was present for many of these unlawful activities by federal law enforcement. And I feel speaking I feel comfortable speaking on behalf of many of my constituents, folks that I represent, folks across the city, uh, and saying that we are disappointed that the Minneapolis Police Department hasn't done what it should be doing to protect our neighbors. You know, I think it is important that we are documenting the legal actions by ICE and federal law enforcement officers, and we should be doing everything we can as a city agency, as a city department, as speed department to hold federal law enforcement accountable. Um, so I just wanted to at least mention that I hope that when you mentioned those comments in December about what the Minneapolis Police Department should be doing should we see the legal actions of ICE, I was very excited because I felt hope that as a department we were going to be taking these actions and holding ICE accountable and I feel like it hasn't been met. So at least I'll finish it there. That was just a comment I wanted to make. >> May I respond, Chair? >> Yes. Go ahead. And council member Chavez, just so you're aware, like we took off the speaker limits so we can use the full breath of the hour so council members can ask their questions. Like obviously there's a lot to discuss in this matter. Go ahead, Chief. >> Thank you, Chair. Uh, council member, the the duty to intervene is specifically what I'm speaking about is very well established in Minnesota about what that is. Um, an officer has to have an opportunity to intervene in what appears to be a very egregious and ongoing and an and unlawful use of force. That's what the duty to intervene is talking about. We've got a very complicated situation with uh the manner in which federal law enforcement uh conducted a lot of this stuff. There's no question about that. If there are specific incidents, of course, we can file reports. we can conduct investigations. We can do the best we can um to try and help report things to the appropriate entity, try and identify some of the folks who have been involved, but even take away the fact that it's federal law enforcement. Um when you're dealing with when you're dealing with law enforcement officers that are taking action in the performance of their duty, um it is very is very complicated and difficult situation to try and prove that a crime occurred. Um, and then when you add in the fact that this is a law enforcement agency operating on a under a totally separate set of laws that has different case law about what they're permitted to do, different policies and things, um, and isn't necessarily cooperating with us, telling us, you know, who who some of these folks are. Um, it is a very complicated and difficult situation. So that's just to level set trying to go after someone criminally for something that they did. What happens typically in law enforcement when someone has an interaction with the police that they think, you know, may have been forced that was appropriate, somebody got shoved or spoken to a certain kind of way or whatever. What typically happens is there's an investigative agency that can go through that um and is generally resolved by an administrative action against the employee, the law enforcement officer, because it's a much lower burden of proof to try and prove that there was an excessive force or an inappropriate use of force administratively under that agency's rules, trainings, and procedures than it is to try and prove that a crime occurred under state law. Um, and that's not an excuse. That's just stating the reality of the way things are. If you could find an incident where you could get a federal agent or law enforcement officer that did something off duty, it's a whole different story to try and prove that a crime occurred. It's a whole lot less complicated, but it's important for people to know if people do have things that they want to report, uh, that we will take the reports. they should reach out uh and we'll do whatever we can to try and work towards uh you know referring it to the appropriate uh entity investigative entity and trying to get uh some level of of identification. But the the duty to intervene thing is specific to what it means under state law and what it is well known to function uh a as in law enforcement. >> Thank you, >> Vice Chair Chug Thai. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I have several questions for you, sir. Um, let's start with the weekly memos that you've apparently been writing about the overtime situation or um, where do these go? Can I can we can we see them? >> Chair, vice chair. Um, I believe the council president is copied. I >> Yes, council president is copied. It goes to the commissioner um and to the mayor. >> Really? >> Huh. Okay. Council President, will you double check and if so, will you please send them to all council members? >> Yes. >> Thank you. Thank you. That would be very helpful. Um okay. Next, um I actually want to shift gears for a little bit and then we'll come back to um some really specific incidents that I have some follow-up questions about. But um yesterday, uh the Henipin County Attorney was in our chambers and and presented on the uh her office's response to um Operation Metro Surge and a few themes emerged from there that um uh I have some follow-up questions for you about. Uh starting with um whether there are uh any cases or if you can just tell me uh how many cases of illegal activity by federal agents that MPD has uh submitted for uh charging decisions to the city attorney's office or to the Henipin County Attorney's Office. >> Chair, vice chair. So there's um there's none that would go to the county attorney. uh there's at least two misdemeanor assaults that if they were established as assaults and we could provide the identity of the person, it would go to the city attorney. Um but again, if there's others that are out there, um we would we would take the reports and assign them. Uh but it likely would would have the same challenges. >> Okay. So, okay. Um the the county attorney spoke pretty extensively about their offic's um transparency and accountability project. I'm wondering um you know and then she spoke about uh uh trying to engage with the city on this. Um but I I just want to hear directly from you. Um, are you working with uh the county attorney's office on the transparency and accountability project right now? Um, and if not, are you willing to commit to working with her office on this project? >> Chair, vice chair, I learned about this uh on Monday um through the commissioner. Um, I have a plan and we would very much like to be a full partner uh for any cases that occurred in Minneapolis. Um, but I have to meet with the commissioner first uh before we move forward. >> Okay. Well, um, so you'll be meeting with the commissioner and then perhaps we'll know more about what comes from that. >> Chair, vice chair. Um, you know, I believe we should be if there's any cases that are potentially uh criminal misconduct that could rise to the level of involving the county attorney, which is, you know, felony level misconduct, we should be taking reports for that. We should be assigning an investigator. We should be working fully uh through those issues. Um, you know, I mentioned before and I know that the county attorney is very wellversed on the issues that she would have to deal with, you know, u with what court it lands in and all that stuff. The issues we have to deal with on the front end, what I'm concerned about is being able to establish that a crime occurred and being able to try and identify the person. Um, and our, you know, our investigators have a very good relationship with the prosecutors in that office that are doing that. Um, and we would very much like to be a full partner in that effort. >> Yeah, this this actually leads me to just two follow-ups. Uh, the first is is related to the police report slide in which you talk about the two fatal shootings which are not investigated by the police department. they are by the that that's where you called the BCA in. But the non-fatal shootings, the abandoned vehicles, misdemeanor assaults, um chemical sprays, vehicle collisions, um are are all of these um incidents that are being investigated by the police department currently? And um is are have you do you plan to submit any of these for uh charging decisions to either the city attorney's office or the count or the county attorney's office? Uh, chair, vice chair, I think of everything that we have, um, I think there's two potential misdemeanor assaults in in the world of everything that we have that could be submitted. Um, but again, it's getting over the initial uh, difficulty of when you have someone working for a law enforcement agency acting in the performance of their duties, proving that that action was a crime, number one, and then number two, trying to identify the person. So, um, like in those cases, we'll work with the city attorney if we don't, uh, if we're not able to, uh, if we get to a point where we cannot move forward. Um, but yes, we would very much like to be able to work with the county, um, on whatever information they have about other cases. >> Yeah. So, I I just saw that a couple days ago the there are two incidents that the county attorney highlighted um when when the transparency and accountability project was announced. Um the first one was the the the gassing of of children and educators at Roosevelt High School. Um and the second was uh uh around Greg Bovino and um the the tear gasing of protesters. So those are two really concrete examples of things that are that are being um that are being pursued by their office. Yesterday the uh county attorney spoke about um you know the incident involving u Mr. um Mr. Julio Sosa um and potential charging decisions that that she's planning that that she's considering right now. Um and uh and and a few of these other incidents that you've highlighted uh in your presentation as well. So in in those cases um have you have you given their office things like any evidence you may have you know like police department the the police department was um on scene the night Mr. uh um Mr. Sosa CIS was shot in the leg. Um you you probably have lots and lots of evidence. Has has that been kind of submitted? >> Chair, vice chair. Um, we have the evidence from uh when Mr. Sosa was shot and that was provided that night to the BCA and I think the evidence uh likely it's part of evidence that I would think would have made a difference in that case. >> Okay. So, as as the county attorney is making charging decisions, are you planning on like submitting it to her office as well? chair, vice chair, it would go to it's gone to the BCA and when the BCA investigates the case, I mean they probably they've seen it already, but formally when they present the case, it will come with everything. >> Okay. >> I'm sure they they've seen it already, the prosecutors. Um I think I want to talk about a little bit about um Juda intervene here and and the two examples um that that really struck me or or one example that really struck me in your presentation was the hotel demonstration slide and as you were describing the incident um from that night from the perspective of the police department. So helpful to hear. Um really appreciate it. Um you you described, you know, when when the police department arrived on scene, um federal agents, you know, it it was a pretty tense scene. You were you were thinking about um showing up to help deescalate the the demonstrators that were um present at that site. And so, um, when you arrived and as this is, you know, there's there's federal agents and then there's there's community members, protesters, um, that as you're arriving, you see federal agents pointing their weapons towards um, towards you guys, towards I would presumably like where the crowd is and as you're trying to enter into this scene. And so, at that time, you made the determination to leave. Those weapons though still remain pointed at the community members and you did not feel a duty to protect or serve them. >> Chair, vice chair, um it was clearly a scene where there were property there was property damage happening to the hotel. Um and our officers I wanted our officers to deal with that to clear them out. uh they were not able to get there until federal law enforcement began clearing out the crowd. Um my recollection u that the uh the supervisor on scene actually uh spoke to or tried to speak to uh someone from federal law enforcement uh to do it in some coordinated way. Um and they they were not able to. Um, and so it it the supervisor made a determination that they were already engaged in clearing the crowd and it just wasn't possible at that point. I think I'm struggling to find the words to like really describe like the sense of disappointment that I feel right now. You show up to a scene, you see federal agents pointing their weapons at people, and you don't feel a duty to protect the residents of this community and instead choose to leave the scene. >> Chair, vice chair, um, however we all feel about federal law enforcement, they are a a lawful uh government agency. We cannot prevent them from uh enforcing federal law in the city. Um, if there is some, you know, concern about something specific that happened, we could review it. Um, but I I we would have preferred to have handled that scene ourselves. That's what we had been trying to do since the first shooting in the city. We tried to get them to leave. Uh, we were unable to do that uh at times afterwards. Um we we cannot physically obstruct uh or stop federal law enforcement from performing a function uh and them simply you know being present doing whatever it is they do with crowd control um which we are not trained in both their authority or their procedures or that kind of thing. Um, again, unless something egregious was observed that is readily apparent that is unlawful, there wouldn't be an opportunity for us to try and do anything differently. >> So, but you left the scene. How would you have possibly observed something egregious happening? >> The chair, vice chair, they disengaged from the scene um and and staged until they left to move in uh and uh you know, >> right? So you were no longer there to observe what was happening. >> Chair, vice chair, um that has been what the police department has done throughout all of this. We have not uh responded to monitor what federal law enforcement is doing. We developed a policy prior to this uh that very clearly defines the incidents that we will get involved with. Um but no, we can't um we can't stop another government law enforcement agency from enforcing the law. >> So everyday ordinary people should just do that with their whistles and their bodies. >> Chair, vice chair, that was very clearly a scene where the hotel was damaged. Um it was unlawful what was happening there. Uh I would have preferred again I would have preferred for us to be the people to deal with it. Uh but we were unable to do that at that time. >> The night that Mr. Sosa Ciss was shot. Um you know, when I arrived on scene, it just it like it was right as uh the Jackson family with their with their babies in their vehicle had tear gas uh canisters thrown into their vehicle. Um, and for for for the remainder of the night it was like a constant use >> of uh of chemical weapons of um LRADS but you know flashbangs that type of persistent constant use of force. >> You didn't feel a duty to intervene in that either. uh chair, vice chair, again, if there's a specific instance of a person uh being >> the same officer like shooting over and over and over and over and over and over again is is not >> terrible, terrible tactics and I can't explain it. You know, there's no times that the Minneapolis police officers just stood on these scenes and just threw gas like crazy uh with seemingly no objective. It didn't make sense to me. None of this makes sense to me. Um, but was it a scene where uh, you know, it was readily apparent, uh, that a person was being subjected to unlawful force, being injured in some way? Uh, you know, if something like that exists, you know, we'll deal with it. Um, >> well, you were there that night. I I'm just asking why you didn't deal with it. chair, vice chair, we're not capable of uh we're not able to tell federal law enforcement that, you know, they they cannot they cannot enforce the law. That was a dangerous scene. Partly uh at least partly contributed by the things that they were doing, the tactics they were employing. >> I mean, I would argue like almost entirely contributed. I don't think the shooting happened because >> absolutely the shooting happened because of them. Uh what we tried to do there is what we tried to do on uh Portland Avenue the week before is we tried to get them to leave and it just so that we could deal with the scene. Um and we just we weren't able to do that. >> Can you explain what standby pay is? >> Chair vice standby pay is when um we need we need >> or how does it compare to overtime? >> I'm sorry. I just want to know how it compares to overtime or double overtime. >> So, how much is it? >> Great. >> Chair and vice chair. It depends on what type of standby it is, but there is a certain standby that's a 0.25 pay and another standby that's 0.5 pay. So, it just depends on what's happening for people to be ready to respond. >> That's very helpful. Thank you. Um I'm I I am I want to just thank my colleagues for their patience with me. Um I I will just end with um asking you about barricade response. Um, I I think I kind of want to know if if you if the department had conversations about just trying to understand why people were putting up the barricades and and then from your perspective, why you chose to tear them down when when from my perspective, the reason community barricades started going up is is reckless and dangerous behavior. from federal law enforcement agencies that endangered the lives of of people. Just, you know, this reckless driving, hitting vehicles that are parked, all of this this type of really really negligent and reckless behavior that frankly the police department wasn't responding to, wasn't showing up to scenes and and investigating. So, if I'm I'm a resident of the city, right? Like I'm sitting there. Do I want to send my kids outside and potentially get run over only for nothing to happen? Or am I going to put up a a a makeshift barricade? So, I'm going to make the decision to put up a makeshift barricade to keep myself, my community safe. Why did you guys make the determination to tear them down instead of trying to figure out how you could set up how you could work with the community on say like the night that you guys put up the the um the perimeter in in South Minneapolis around 26th and and Nichollet, that large perimeter. So, you know, I keep hearing about, you know, um emergency vehicle access, but if you can put up no vehicle zones in and that's completely fine, doesn't do anything for um safety vehicle access, then why why did you make the choice to tear down community barricades? I don't get it. chair, vice chair, the the vehicle exclusionary zone around 26th in Nicollet, part of that was to keep the street open as best we could. Uh >> no, it was like quite literally closed. >> I'm sorry. >> It's like quite literally closed. It's a vehicle extension, >> but it's not closed because there's tons of garbage and refrigerators and washing machines and drying, you know, old drying you washers and dryers out there, which is what happened on Portland Avenue in places around there, making it completely impassible for ambulances and fire trucks. I mean, those are the things that were happening immediately after. And there were residents on that block on Portland Avenue that were thankful that the obstructions were clear. Um, so I mean that's why both with the fire chief saying, uh, you know, how how serious of an emergency it would be if some of this was impassible, uh, and with the concerns from the residents, uh, yeah, the the obstructions were were removed. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thank you. Um, next we'll go to Council Member Wanley. at about like if you get to the 12 minute time, I'm gonna do a soft check-in with you so we can keep on moving through the queue. And so I just ask um just the taking a look at the queue with me. This is for everyone that's in Q so we can make sure folks get a chance to ask their questions. Okay, Council Member Wley. >> Thank you, Chair Chowry. Just going to the top. Um I also wanted to echo some questions related to the duty to intervene. And I think most of us um had lots of concerns around that or the lack of usage of it. Um and chief, you stated that um no officers intervene because they weren't on the scene at the time where aggressive uses of force were employed by ICE agents. Um, I'm also curious to know how you all landed at that assumption, especially as council member um, why am I bl Chuck Tai highlighted the fact that even at the North Minneapolis shooting where a number of us were at, um, we saw ICE agents and MPD be on the scene, particularly shooting a a number of munitions, one of which um, targeted a family of six um, who were driving away from um, that particular incident and their six-month-old end up being hospitalized. So, I'm very curious to know also where the the um labs of capturing um these incidents like how that prevailed and more specifically um I'm I'm interested in in your conclusion that no officer was able to be at the scene when these aggressive uses of force was being employed. Um did you happen to review video or body cam footage to to land at this conclusion and to confirm this? Uh, chair, council member, if I can just I should have done this or earlier. I'll read what the policy actually says for duty and intervene so we understand exactly what we're talking about. Uh, members shall not interfere with or obstruct federal law enforcement uh, federal immigration enforcement. However, when it is apparent to a member that federal agents are using clearly excessive force, members shall ver verbally or physically intervene to stop the excessive force when they have both the reasonably safe opportunity and the means to do so. So, that's the specific um part of the policy that we're talking about. There have been no uh allegations or complaints that that happened and an officer failed to intervene. If there are any specific instances, we can look into uh into any of them. Uh give us a date, time, a place, uh you know, we'll we'll figure it out as much information as we have. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry, Chief. I just want to make sure I'm getting at the core of the question. The question was, have you I think we all have a baseline understanding of that policy. It's have you review cuz I know that's also part of your policy is to do periodic reviews of your body cam footage to confirm that no officer made witnesses of that at the time or even retroactively. uh chair uh council member um the body warn camera footage gets reviewed for use of force when it's reported the force being used by the police officers uh as well as audits that are conducted with the with the implementation. Um so to my knowledge there's been and there you know there has been a minimal number of force that used by police uh over the course of the 12 weeks. Those incidents either have been reviewed or either or in the process of still being reviewed uh that is close to being complete. Um and to my knowledge there's no audit uh h has uncovered anything related to this. Uh, and third, I'm not aware of any specific complaint about an incident. >> Okay. So, summary of that, there's been no audit either requested from the city auditor or you of video cam footage that from officers who were at the scene of these incidents where ICE were present where there could have been possibly captured uh excessive use of force. Um, it sounds like that review or assessment has not happened. Um that would be something to further or follow up with this body to our own city auditor um as they're making those periodic um reviews to um and just clarification those complaints can happen retroactively related to the duty. Okay. So that means even after let's say a body cam footage maybe shows something a officer or your US leaders could make a complaint. that >> chair uh council member one of the reviews uh it's possible uh that there will be an internal complaint generated um but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about it has to do with use of force policy. Um and no the all of the footage from the last 12 weeks where all of these things were possible. No, that footage not all of the whole world of that footage has not been reviewed. Yeah, that was my question and this is related to again the terms in your the policy. We are saying duty to intervene when aggressive force is being seen by other law enforcement agents. Great. Next question. Um I'm trying to reconcile some of the uh discrepancies in the data reported in the presentation and also that was stated in the city's assessment report. Um all related to operation metro surge. For instance, slide 21 here stated that MPD handled uh at minimum 50,000 calls. Um but the assessment report carried out by the city offer substantially lower numbers, even citing that there were only six ICE related calls made in January amongst East Phillips community members. And we know that's been a neighborhood that's been repeatedly targeted and attacked during this occupation and well beyond uh just six times. So, I'm interested if there's staff here who can speak to why there's differences in the data here um of how did you get to the 50,000 and that report not really adding up. >> Yep. Uh chair, council member, when I say about 50,000, that's everything that's in the CAD for police, the computerated dispatch. So, everything 911 that gets referred to police in some way, everything a police officer selfinitiates that's involving police. Um I I So that's everything that happened in the 12 weeks. That's not just ICE related things, okay? It's everything the police handled. And and I just I can't speak to where they're pulling their data from, but I can tell you I know with 911, there's been such a wide variety of uh of different types of calls that are in some way related to this, but the whole universe of those calls is not. Uh I know there's been difficulty in in in pulling the data. >> Okay. So that's um eye opening of the 50,000 is the entire universe of problem nature calls that you could be responding to. I think for the presentation we were really hoping to get a more specific breakdown that I would make as a staff followup of the problem nature codes that were most commonly used related to operation metro surge. So being able to separate out those typical um service calls from um the ICE related calls as well. Um, I also wanted to get clarity and and it sounds like that might not in that breakdown. I think also it'd be good to note um which might not neatly fit under a problem nature code that's existing when the public called 911 um asking for followup from MPD or first responder uh because a ICE agent was doing unlawful behavior. So far, we haven't been able to receive after multiple requests >> and we know residents made those calls like the breakdown of that and if that's reflected in this 50,000. So, those are staff follow-ups. I can also send y'all the questions. Um, also this presentation confirms that OCS and MPD did a lot of prioritization of crisis uh cleanup for ICE as well as the hotel demonstrations, barricade removals. Um, I think we're all still trying to figure out again how that relates to now this 50,000 universe of calls that you're responding to overall. Um, and just um think that'll be followup cuz I know folks were wondering also in that 50,000 universe if there were calls being made to help you all to support residents in doing patrols um that a lot of folks did around their neighborhoods to schools. Um also um again witnessing violent behavior by ICE agents. So really trying to consider how the prioritization was made amongst you all to focus on those specific um pieces. >> Um chair uh council member um in the call part uh as best I can tell from talking to the 911 director we estimated it was about 10,000 more calls. um which would roughly be about 6,000. Um but that's how many more calls total were handled in the period and not necessarily the ones related to the event. Um in terms of response, um the calls related to potential immigration activity were followed in accordance with the policy um as it was revised. um which generally states that uh officers shall not be deployed to immigration enforcement related activity uh except if there is uh threats of violence, actual violence, life-threatening situations or destruction of property. So I think that's the best guidance um that the policy uh gives towards largely um what going into this had um to me it felt like the theme concern that was being communicated is uh is not having MPD officers present unnecessarily. And so that was the the that was the the desire towards changing the policy after uh the June 3rd search warrant at Lake and Bloomington. That was that's what was largely driving that is not getting our officers unexpectedly caught up in these things uh where where it can be avoided. So it uh it prohibits officers from selfinitiating uh responding on their own uh to these types of things. uh it provides some guidance uh as far as uh reporting requirements, that kind of thing. But in terms of uh triaging the calls, that's the main issue. Um and again, the calls come through MECC first, but before a police officer is sent, uh there would need to be violence, uh threats of violence, uh prop or property damage, like those those are the main things. >> Gotcha. Just really quickly, I'm going to just request from the chief and any other council member that's going to speak if you can shorten your responses. We are just on a time crunch and like we want to make sure we get through to others. We're are talking about captioning captioning, but we need to maintain quorum. Okay, back to >> Thank you. Next one. This could be also just a hopefully more concise response or it might be a staff followup. Uh, can you um essentially share how many arrests were made by MPD related to um demonstrations or first amendment uh exercises? >> Um, chair, council member, there was one uh mass arrest outside of a hotel um there two hotels that were damaged downtown and several people got inside. it became an unlawful assembly and I want to say there was about 27 or 29 people that were cited and released that night. Uh there was one person um after the Powder Horn Park uh March demonstration, there was one person that tagged a significant amount of buildings along uh Lake Street graffiti that there was an arrest there. Um the arrests at the graduate were uh at the we were assisting the university police. Um other than that I can't think of were there any others? >> There were 41 uh 41 uh total and yeah there were a couple people cited uh at the Target in Dinky Town. There was a protest there. uh they were cooperative, but they didn't want to not block the the doorway or something until they were cited. So, they were just issued citations and they were released. Uh but a total of 41 arrests, if you will, including all these people who were cited and released. Okay. >> And then this is a followup for staff memo on the city attorney's side because I know some of those um charges also went further with the city attorneys for follow-up steps. I would love to have clarity of all those arrests. Um which of those are being proceeded with more serious charges that requires the city attorney um to intervene. So that's a staff memo. Um and then just quick question around overtime. So I'm looking at the memo that was sent by council president where MPD racked up at least $6.41 million related to operation metro surge. I just wanted confirmation. And the majority of that overtime was taken for 4 days between January 7th and the 11th, right, >> chair, council member. Um, no, that was ongoing. There were multiple times where uh people were recalled during that period of time, the 7th to the 11th, everyone's days off were cancelled, everyone was extended. Uh, so there's a lot of money spent during that time, but there were many times, you know, when uh the shooting happened on the north side, there was an emergency recall. um you know uh and then after after Prey was killed there were other times that there were recalls for uh you know hotel demonstrations that kind of thing. There was there was there was a lot throughout the duration of this but January roughly January 7th through the 29th is the bulk of it. >> Okay. The reason why I asked was in the memo you stated um the overtime was spent for operation trust and safety and in the presentation you mentioned just those four days. So, that's why I was confused um of why that was listed, but I think there'll be follow-up more conversations around overtime as we talk about budget, but um I'll email questions over there are still outstanding. Just being cognizant of other council members being in Q. >> Thank you, Council Member Wanley. I'm next in Q. I just have a couple questions and hopefully we can get through them quickly. The first question that I have is in relationship um to our overtime expenditure. Could you just state what our overtime expenditure is through operation the start of operation metro surge and up until this point or the latest point that you have? >> Thank you chair. And just to clarify all the memos that we sent or that the commissioner sent to the council president, we titled that. I didn't know there was a specific time period because there was immigration response and that was kind of the codes we were using throughout these weeks. So our memos are all labeled that not labeled just the 4-day period but the whole from one to28 it's close to $6.4 million includes the standby which really gets registered under salary >> $6.1 million in total >> 6.4 through 28 >> six and what's the starting time? one one. >> Thank you. And then um a question related to that is how many officers do we currently have that are active duty? >> Um chair 5 uh excuse me 619 total sworn. >> 619 total sworn but many are on various leaves. There was >> yes >> several officers that did paid family medical leave in the middle of the surge. I mean they had their reasons for doing that but there was also other reasons. So I understand 619 but I know that the numbers lower. So if you have that. >> So chair 527 uh total active sworn um which yes there's a number of officers that are on the PTSD leave and then there's all a few dozen officers uh 26 officers on continuous leave uh related to the uh state uh PFML leave as well. >> Okay. So 527 boots on the ground now doing various level of work. >> Do you think that That's a big part of like the huge amount of overtime, >> chair. Yes. >> Yeah, >> of course. >> Yeah, >> of course. >> And I I mean I'll share what constituents are sharing with me and that what I've felt as a council member on this body that $20 million at the end of the year was like very hard to stomach given the budgeting crisis we were in then and now exasperated now. And then that 6.4 for in addition to that 20 million. Obviously understanding the surge, but also a lot of these like questions of connecting the dots between >> what community expected in terms of officers showing up and questions that I get, which is what what is MPD doing? I think like the presentation was helpful and I'll be sharing this out to constituents, but there's like 100% a big tension there and this is going to be a tremendously difficult budget cycle. I know that that's not lost on you. Um the next question that I have is uh there was a point that you named in the presentation where officers were very clearly marked with their badges and like you wanted to make sure that there was a differentiation. I did not see that occur with unmarked vehicles from MPD. Um there were several occurrences where there were unmarked vehicles parked at different intersections that scared community members and they thought they were ACE officers. >> Why was that? And can we make sure that vehicles are now marked very clearly, >> chair? Yes. Um we tried to get um it's kind of a unique problem uh that we had. Uh we tried to get um the magnets uh to put decals on the car quickly. We just weren't able to get enough uh fast enough and we just didn't have enough uh marked vehicles to deploy when we're mobilizing the entire department. Yes. There were some instances though where like like just like parking on Lake Street outside of um businesses or that there was an instance also where a church would got really scared as well. And so I feel like those are things that could have been avoidable because like it was happening in like a sensitive area. >> Um are all vehicles now marked? Is there a decal? Is there a way to identify it? >> Uh, chair, no. Not all vehicles are not marked. Um, we have a number of the uh magnets that can be used. Um, but no, the the fleet has both marked and unmarked uh vehicles. >> Okay. I guess I'll ask for a followup and like what's the plan as it comes to the utilization of unmarked vehicles on city streets while we're continuing to face ICE presence in our city. Like it's going to continue for several months. It's still going to alarm people. So, we'll leave that for administrative followup. The last one I have is that there were several instances where community members, I think there were three instances where community members um told me that there was an ICE vehicle inside of a precinct parking lot. What was the response to that? >> Chair, there were um there's at least three or four times I can think of um where there was a vehicle in the fifth precinct, at least one time in the second precinct. Um, from what I remember at the fifth precinct, um, at least two of those times the agents drove to the station because someone was following them. Um, and then, uh, one of those times asked the police to arrest the person that was following them. So, they had to explain to them that there isn't anything to arrest the person for. Um, and ultimately they left. I'm not uh aware of any times where they refused to leave. >> Okay. So, they were asked to leave. >> Yes. >> Okay. That's my questions. I know we have limited time, so I will go to Council President Payne. >> Thank you, Chair Trudrey. I'm trying to manage um both my questions and Council Member Stevenson's questions here. He had to leave a little early. I think you spoke to some of these questions specifically around um how we're managing cases. Uh but just really maybe just want to put another point on it. Uh it sounds like officers didn't report any illegal ICE or DHS activity. Did you is that a correct thing? >> Uh chair council president. Um no. No, I mean we have we have some reports and we have some uh referrals that were made. Um but if you're saying something that was selfinitiated from a police officer >> like MPD officers witnessing illegal activity and then reporting that >> for followup or investigation. >> Correct. To my knowledge the answer would be no. That was selfinitiated by a police officer. >> Okay. because I think there's probably going to be some opportunity to at least do some I know that um council member Chavez was asking about the incident over on Portland doing a followup on body warn camera review of that but I I'd imagine there's some other instances where we could identify things within our records that reflect illegal behavior chair council president uh yeah that the ask is if if you could just give uh give me or give us something specific Um, you obviously there was a lot of chaos throughout this whole thing and we were doing our best to try and manage to we still have everything that was happening in the city happening. People are still getting robbed and calling the police for other things. Now that we have this time, absolutely, we can follow up and look at video and we just need to know specific times and places of concern. >> Yeah. >> Um, and then as far as the accounting of overtime at the 6.4 4 million. Is that specifically is that coded to the operation or is that inclusive of all overtime that was spent over that period of period of time? >> Chair, council president, that is inclusive of all overtime. I don't know if the coding all overtime for sworn during that period. Um be very difficult to parse out. Um because on a regular day we need overtime just to fill 911. Uh it's that much worse when we're pulling everybody to do all this stuff created by this surge. So I I would say all of it is related to what was happening in the time period. Um I mean you spoke you spoke about again the Portland incident where there was just kind of officer needs assistance call that >> Yep. >> uh led to a huge showing of MPD and how you made refinements to that policy. But even just yesterday during our meeting there was a video of like a bounty hunter right outside of city hall that was brandishing a weapon. Um and it sounds like a sheriff had driven by. Obviously, that's not your agency, but I'm just curious to what extent you could speak to how MPD has refined its protocol when there's a call of a officer branding brandishing a weapon. >> Um, chair, council president, um, there is a call for that. um it would go through MECC, but again, we have uh we have a lieutenant that's able to u would triage that call if for some reason it was believed to be connected to uh immigration enforcement. If it's just somebody is brandishing a gun, that's a person with a gun that just goes out immediately. Um and it is not unusual. There definitely have been times where we've had issues with uh you know, bounty hunters and that kind of thing. There's been calls related to that in the past. >> Yeah. >> Um and then you spoke to the second precinct. I'm using the um parking lot. I called you that morning and you were going to look into it. It just didn't sound like there was an officer in the precinct at the time. So, you weren't able to get an officer there. >> Um what ended up happening in this instance is I I demanded that they leave and they didn't really listen to me at first. Um, but there were enough people there blowing whistles that maybe they were just annoyed enough to leave on their own. But you'd mentioned in other instances at the fifth precinct, maybe others. Did you were you able to get officers there to enforce our separation ordinance and they they they complied or how did those work out? >> Uh, chair, council president, yes, that's correct. Um, I I thought we followed up afterwards, but there there was no one inside the building when you were there. U which is why nobody came out. There was no one there to come out. We eventually sent a supervisor but it was gone. Um so there's at least one time I remember might have been the first time that uh they went to the fifth precinct. May it may have come in from another council member. I just I don't remember. They went to the fifth precinct. They parked in that area that's kind of like a public access parking lot. They managed to get inside. The front door was open but the inner door was locked because no one was staffing the desk at the time. So, um I think there had been a report that the person was inside the building and we checked on the footage. They weren't able to get in. There's just there's nobody inside the building. There at least two other times that I remember at the fifth precinct where they spoke to officers um and wound up leaving. Um, and I think in both of those cases, um, there were there were, you know, some civilian motorist had followed them and they wanted the person arrested or something and they explained, you know, there's nothing to arrest the person for and then they left. Those are those are the times I remember offhand. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> My questions. >> Thank you. Next we have council member Whiting and then I will just say to the body we don't have a hard cut off at two so people can get through their questions but I would like for us not to spend the rest of our day here if possible. >> Thank you Chair Chowry. I will be quick and thank you for being here Chief O'Haria. I think it's helpful and some comments before some questions. I think it might be helpful both for uh members of this body and the public about I'm just going to read verbatim our duty intervene uh policy that was that was uh I believe enacted or updated uh December 18th of 2025. And so uh those see listening online reading that's where we're pulling it from. But our duty to intervene for excessive force members shall not interfere with or obstruct lawful federal immigration enforcement. However, when it is imperent to a member that federal agents are using clearly excessive force, members shall verbally or physically intervene to stop the excessive force when they have both the reasonably safe opportunity and the means to do so. Uh the reason I I am kind of reading through that right now and I appreciate our comments from uh Henipin and County Attorney uh Morardi yesterday is like while we do have the ability to intervene and and are required to do so, uh the question that I asked Henipin County Attorney Morardi was have we seen in any city across this country in federal immigration enforcement actions um or historically have we seen any officer from a municipal uh agency actually intervene and the answer was no. All right. And so while in theory we have this I think what we are seeing play out is is a tension both in community of the practical legal effects or or the theoretical legal effects and the practicality of that. And so I think it is helpful to notice that these things are required but we are asking our officers to do something unprecedented. uh which I have no problem with asking our officers to do, but I think it is important to note um that it is has not been done in a city across this country. Uh and so I guess first question for you, I could be wrong uh with the research that I've done. A hip county attorney could be wrong. Have you heard of an officer uh intervening in federal immigration informants across this country? >> Uh chair, council member, the answer is no. Um and not that I'm aware of. And the only thing criminally that I'm aware of is the distinction I was trying to explain before is offduty actions. Yeah, >> I'm aware of the somewhere believe around Illinois, Chicago, somewhere here in the Midwest, there was a federal officer charged under state law for conduct off duty. And that that's a whole lot easier to prove that a crime occurred than it is to prove that a a law enforcement officer acting in the performance of their duties committed a crime. easy to prove they didn't act according to professional standards. They violated the training. They were unsafe. All those things administratively, it's a much lower burden of proof. It's very complicated when we're dealing with a whole different government, the federal government, different set of laws, different agency, different training, different court rulings that affect them to try and say that we are not aware of to try and say that their actions constituted a crime. Uh it's not impossible, but it's just the reality is that is what has to be surmounted aside from identifying people involved if somebody's going to be charged with with anything under Minnesota law. >> Yeah. Thank you, Chief. And I think that illuminates a point that I have uh specifically I think it is really hard. We are asking officers to to kind of deal with constitutional issues uh that I think a lot of attorneys are have a very hard time dealing with. And so I think it may be helpful um whether that's our body uh MPD but to figure out ways of of hey if if you do see this uh this would be an example of that and so there are more kind of concrete u actions that that officers can see to to maybe intervene in those circumstances. Um another kind of comment here and I think and you brought I appreciate uh you bringing up kind of the the on the scene efforts of all of my council colleagues. um at the the murder of Renee Good. And so I think it is is helpful to again kind of give an understanding of that that scene in that situation. Right. For many of us and many of my colleagues, it was day three on the job for us. Uh and that was my first kind of introduction to see how this body worked. Uh and actually I was quite proud of every single one of my council colleagues. Um those that were there and present and those that um were not uh as they were doing versions that that were were meant uh and were protective for them. And so, uh, want to kind of separate out both that scene with the murder of Renee Good and then the murder of Alex Prey. Uh, and from my understanding, it was the a large number of us of of my council colleagues and I, uh, saw you on the scene. Um, had conversations with community members and their biggest ask, I think, for all of us was, can MPD MPD get ICE to leave? Yes. >> Uh, and that was communicated by all of us, which I I I really appreciated. uh as a level of collaboration and and and was received by you and your officers and and you made that ask of ICE and they left. Uh and again kind of contrasting that to the scene of of Alex Prey. Uh similar conversations that my council colleagues and I had had with you uh and you were told that they didn't even let you on the scene kick you all off the scene. And so I think question to that point um is understanding that that was helpful uh and I think I thought it was helpful. Uh is there a way or have have you all been thinking of of kind of how to build in um some level of formality uh to that process where we can be helpful um that that you all are doing if there's a way that we can be um and so >> don't know if it's something that's come up. think it's an area that maybe we can look into and you all as well of uh some maybe it's like a communication standard or some version of process when when these events do come up so that you know we are able to do something too. Yes, chair, council member, thank you. Uh, you know, happy to have conversations about that. That would be great. Hopefully, we don't need to employ it anytime soon, but that would be very helpful. Thank you. >> Yeah. And then then last comment here. I think it's I guess we're I don't know what our time is looking like. I'll go quick. Um have been looking towards uh because what I am seeing and I think a lot of of my council colleagues are are seeing issues with as well is kind of this tension right between our officers and community. Um particularly as you kind of are kind of that buffer between uh ICE actions and in that instance uh I've kind of been looking into uh I think Portland does it. I think Boulder, Colorado has some efforts where they call them dialogue liaison officers uh where they kind of sit as in a in a distinct position within community um that are there for first amendment rights actions um other actions protests otherwise celebrations um is that something that you all have have looked into kind of these dialogue liaison officers >> chair council member yes uh and that's something that we've tried to employ at different points around the vigils uh around the the protest activity that was planned for uh Cedar Riverside and that's absolutely something that we want to um a strategy we want to be able to use going forward whenever appropriate. >> Okay, great. That's helpful. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> Council Member Palmasano >> Chief, you look and you sound exhausted. Um and I think it exemplifies what everyone in your department is feeling right now. Um, I appreciate your willingness though to come and have this conversation and a pretty exhaustive one at that. Um, I I read your article in the Atlantic. It was an interview at the time that I think was really important. Um, and it gave me insight to you and your department's approach. I also made my teenage son listen to it as he was having conversations with his friends um, and peers about what was happening and trying to make sense of it. um you know, they were processing what was going on. And I just want to thank you for being o so open during the midst of such a chaotic time like that. I really haven't seen law enforcement do that in times of crisis. And that's pretty unique. Um and that's why it um it jumped out at me actually at that time is it wasn't about controlled press conferences. It was really this kind of overnight I think you know ride along type of thing that you availed yourself to it. It also shared a little bit more with the public. >> Um and I think it helped with that larger national narrative about what was going on here and why. Um I know there have been a lot of good questions here today, hard questions, and these are things we need to talk about in public and those are also some of the questions that my office has received. Um, I appreciate the fact that you recognize that MPD response has not been perfect in all instances. Um, this is really unchartered territory and I understand that these situations evolve very quickly and that you and your team are doing the best that you can. Um, what I'm especially interested in knowing is how you will take this experience and and learn from it or process it to maybe advance, evolve protocols um, and do it better in the future, god forbid. But I I do see this as another opportunity for training that we're working so hard on um, making ever more complete. Um, I I also hope that you can take some of the feedback and questions from my colleagues about specific incidents that you maybe weren't able to focus on during this time. um just to know that that's the frame of an elected official and the things that we hear um coming from the public. But do you at this point have any sense of how you might take this time this operation metro surge that which is hopefully coming to an end soon um and might incorporate that in the future or like you know I hope you go on a speaking tour around the country talking about some of the things that you learned from it but um but importantly here how will we be able to use it to benefit our department in the future. Uh, chair, uh, council member, thank you. Um, there there's definitely, um, it's the things that didn't go well, uh, or didn't go as well as we had hoped. Uh, and those are the things that, um, we're looking to improve upon in the future. Um, it was it was a long uh, operational period. Um, and we were not and and all of the other agencies around us were strained um, with resources. Um, and so, uh, being better at, uh, being able to recall people faster, um, kind of turn on and turn turn things up and turn them down, uh, in response to things that are happening, responding faster, those kinds of things. as well as just a a broader change um I would like to see around how we approach um some of these incidents uh how we approach uh public order issues. Um and I think there's room for for some improvement there as there will always be. But I think um under the strain um under all of the mixed demands and just kind of uncharted territory, I think the members of the police department uh performed exceptionally well um during this. Um, but having talked to talked to a number of chiefs around the country before this and after this, the LAPD chief, the LA Sheriff, other places that were affected by the surge before us, there's nothing compared to um the intensity of what this community was under uh during this time. >> Thank you. >> Y >> Thank you. Next, we'll go to Council Member Schaefer. >> Yeah. I I just have one um comment that I'd like to clarify around overtime, but first of all, just say thank you for your time. It's clear that we have gone through a lot and it's even hard for me to watch these pictures even today >> because I think the feelings are still pretty um front and center and I think that's true for all of us. >> Uh wherever we were, whatever what role we had um and hopefully we will become stronger and go through this together. and and by together I mean bring us together um from our various perspectives but my question was around overtime and um with your and this is recognizing that this is a core city service um your department and you're you've already stated that overtime will be ongoing due to employee employee benefits PTSD retirements etc. Do you foresee any kind of change in the trajectory of spend um when you look at those particular categories? I mean it sounds like today we are probably on spend for 5 million a month. Um do you see that changing in April? Do you see that changing in June? I mean do you have any kind of forward look? >> Uh chair, council member, thank you. Um it is changed. Can't tell you uh what it will be. February it'll be kind of a mixed bag um because there was still a lot going on the beginning of the month. But in no way is it going to be $5 million a month. >> Okay. >> Um it's going to cost more per month than it did cost per month last year. I mean there's just there's contractual things. People got raises, they got step increases, the longevity increases. So I mean there's it will be more of a cost even if we were doing the same amount of hours on average than last year. Uh but I think we'll have a better sense um by next month or so. what should the norm be going forward? And then I would expect a spike uh around the summer months as is that season is it's it's it's annual every year there's a need for increased overtime around the summer. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Council President Payne. Believe you're in Q for Stevenson. >> Yes, I'm in Q for uh Council Member Stevenson. >> Okay. Council member Stevenson, go ahead. And then unless someone has like a super burning question after council member Stevenson and I'll give credit to council member Stevenson. He brought this item forward. Uh we're going to close the queue and discussion after him. >> Yeah. Thank you. Sorry I I had to run and I didn't bring my computer back with me. So I missed most of it. Sorry. I'm I'm really really am sorry about that. I conferred with my colleague on some of the questions that I had initially that maybe didn't get fully answered and I I'll definitely be going back and watching uh everything that you discussed. Um costs have because of what the federal government costs have gone, you know, through the roof. What what specifically or do you have anything specifically that you're doing to control costs, overruns, get things back within budget? >> Uh chair, council member, thank you. Um, I would say there's a number of things operationally that we're doing to respond better. Whether that's uh response times, trying to clear out serious crimes um that may not directly impact uh the cost of services, but they are they are necessary u just to improve the safety of of the community and the city. Um we're going to be more efficient. Um I I think you know especially with patrol uh the way we handle things, you know, you do not expect this level of u overtime to be necessary um for the rest of the year. But we do have kind of a structural problem uh that we've been speaking with uh commissioner's office, the mayor's office that just needs to be addressed uh in that we had been traditionally relying upon uh vacancies of sworn personnel to account for a lot of the overtime that was needed operationally. And um the reality now I mentioned earlier we hired 125 more people last year than what we lost but almost all of them are civilians. So they're community service officers that are in school anywhere from 2 to 3 years or they're cadets that are in school for several months before they can go to the academy. So we're we're spending that money um that had been vacancies because we weren't hiring enough people before. But the reality is we don't yet have the benefit of actually having additional police officers. So that's a structural problem in the budget um that we've been talking about with uh the administration about trying to rightsize. Um I'm hopeful that we can cut cut back even further as this draw down continues before the summer months because I know uh there's going to be an increased uh demand uh from the community. But frankly, like the the state leave program, I mean, I think there's close to 50 people that have applied for that. That's causing an increased strain um on people that are available that we just that's a problem we didn't have last year, the additional leave, you know. >> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Um do you have an idea now what additional budget asks you're going to ask from us to cover uh any shortfalls this year? Uh, chair, council member, I I I don't know because we're we're trying to figure out what what would be normal for this year in terms of operational overtime because this has been all out of whack since the first of the year because of all of this stuff related to the surge. I think maybe by next month we should have a better idea of what uh what would traditionally be needed to make up the gap. >> Okay. So, we can expect in in the future you'll have a clearer idea of how much additional you're going to need to ask. Chair, council member. Yes. It's just it's it's been impossible based on since January 1st, we've been in this surge um staffing public order stuff. It's just been impossible to figure out. >> Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. >> Thank you, council member, and thank you uh chief for the presentation and standing for questions. Really, really appreciate it. Um, with that I'll direct the clerk to file that report and then uh council member Palmisano, would you like to be marked in the affirmative for the legislative directive? >> Yes, the one that I authored. Thank you. >> The one that you authored. Yes. Okay. With that, you all have made history in the longest committee of the whole meeting. Um, we've completed all items on the agenda today and hearing no objections, this meeting is adjourned.