Good morning. My name is Aisha Chuktai and I'm the chair of the budget committee. I'm going to call to order our adjourn meeting for Tuesday, December 9th, 2025. Before we begin the meeting, I want to offer a friendly reminder to all members, staff, and the public that these meetings are broadcast live to enable greater public participation. These broadcasts include real-time captioning as a further method to increase the accessibility of our proceedings to the community. Therefore, all speakers need to be mindful of the rate of their speech so that our captioner can so that our captioners can fully capture and transcribe all comments for the broadcast. We ask all speakers to moderate the speed and clarity of their comments. At this time, I'll ask the clerk to call the role so we can verify the presence of a quorum. Council member Payne, >> present. >> Winsley, >> present. >> Rainville, >> present. >> It >> present. >> Ellison is absent. Osman is absent. Cashman >> present. Jenkins absent. Chavez >> present. >> Chowy absent. Palmisano >> present. Vice Chair Kosski >> present >> and Chair Chugai >> present. >> That is nine members present. Let the record reflect that we have a quorum. I will also remind my colleagues that we are using speaker management today. So please make sure you sign in. We will now begin. We will now continue considering revisions to Mayor Fry's 2026 recommended budget. Yesterday we left off with amendment number 29 with council members Rainville, Palmsano, and Chowri in Q to speak. I will recognize um I will first recognize council member uh Kashman to summarize um the amendment we are discussing amendment number 29. Good morning. Thank you chair Chugai. Number one, good morning everyone. Number two, let's relieve ourselves of this budget amendment [laughter] and I'll move approval again. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All right. Uh we'll go to the queue now. see if there's any discussion on this item. I'll first recognize Council Member Rainville, followed by Council Member Palisano. >> Thank you. So, I'm going to vote for this for many reasons, but one is to stop the puns. [laughter] >> They are painful. I'll give [laughter] you that. >> But I I do I would like to be added as author this of this. I think you've been really creative in finding the funding, you know. Good job, Katie. I have to Council Member Cashman, I have to give you credit for that. And I I do have a great confidence in our public works department. I think they're smart enough to figure this out, do some baby steps, do it right. But I I really look forward to uh seeing the results of this. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next, I'll recognize Council Member Palisano followed by Council Member Chowry. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Those are hard acts to follow. Um [snorts] I agree that we need more public restrooms. Um, and everyone needs safe and clean facilities. I have several questions as to how this would work in reality. So, I worry that we'd be pissing away money here. Um, [snorts] the very first sentence of the key highlights on the standalone public restrooms report by our legislative research and oversight division says many of the cities reviewed in this report completed a pilot program prior to installing more permanent restroom options. This particular amendment has ongoing funding. So, first I'm curious for the author or someone who helped put this together. Is your intent to do a pilot program as other cities have done to determine the effectiveness in the true costs of such a program or what have you used to determine how we do this permanently? Now, >> I'll recognize council member Kman. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Council Member Palmisano. I made this funding ongoing because in our research with other talking with other cities that have implemented this, Ann Arbor being one, uh the bathrooms were so popular that the community did not want to get rid of them once they were created. and it was for, you know, creating some sustainability of the funding to make this ongoing that you wouldn't have to debate uh removing bathrooms next year as a council. Um, and I think it's wise for us to invest in things long term rather than one-time funding because we've seen uh some comments from the administration that when we do pilot projects, it does create budgetary concerns down the road. And so, I thought it would be more sustainable in the long term to ensure we had the ongoing funding for this And this is coming from the value capture district fund which expires in 2038. So I think we have plenty of time that's 14 years away uh to find other sources if need be at that time. I also envision that this would be rolled out on Nicollet Avenue because that's where the value capture district is. However, there are many communities throughout Minneapolis that could benefit from public bathrooms, uptown being one of them. And it's worth exploring, I think, with the when we see how this goes on Nicoladav, how we could potentially fund bathrooms in other neighborhoods. Um, park dedication fees can go to neighborhood associations, for example, to do bathrooms or, um, special service districts might consider it or there are other way and partnerships with [snorts] the county or metro transit or the park board could be explored. So, I think that this this narrow scope along Nichollet Avenue is a good way for us to test it out. Thank you. That's a good answer and I I really do appreciate that. I am a little concerned on the impact and services of the 75 FTE that's resourced to this new project out of public works. I don't know if Director Ston has an idea as to who or whom in his department will end up being responsible for this. Um, [snorts] again from our legislative research study for PZ Pey Plaza, um, did staff said the key to that restroom success is ambassador staffing. Um, they said you need someone to keep an eye out. If not, people would just go in there, lock it, and claim it as their own. Um, in bed makaska, they talked about a lot of problems in the commons. um park board staff had to build a fence or cage around the portaotties that are only open when the park is staffed. Um I highlight those issues to say that if we as a city are going down this path, it's clear to me that we need a significant amount of resources deployed to monitor the restrooms, not just to maintain and clean them. I see Director Ston standing up. Um, and I I'm curious how where from the public works budget will you be taking this FTE and resourcing it to bathrooms and how often? >> Yeah. Uh, Cher Chug Tai, uh, Council Member Palazano, my name is Tim Ston, public works director for the city. Um, in terms of your question regarding the the staffing for this work, um, I [clears throat] think it's we did want to make sure in our responses it was clear that we are we do have an assumption that there would be uh some of this funding would go towards staff administration and management of the pilot program itself. Um, we are envisioning there's quite a bit of engagement involved along with contract management. Um, I think that most logically fits in with our transportation planning and programming team. the planners who do that engagement. Um, it may shift in the future to some some other group within public works. If this moves from the the installation to the maintenance, but I do just want to make it clear to council that this this works for us assuming that we can have some staff time included in the $700,000. >> Yeah. So, um, this is money meant to help improve transit. So, if we're using money that's meant to improve transit to bathrooms, that's that's a choice. Um, my fear is that we get started with something like this and then we find we can't manage it with the operating costs that will be required. Um, I'm curious how many units can we truly operate with this kind of funding and what has been your conversation about that? It looks like the author is ready to answer that question. >> Sure. We kind of under under set the expectations a little bit lower because we wanted to give buffer to public works to be able to manage the contract. So when we originally talked to other cities, I think $700,000 could fund up to eight bathrooms, but we set the expectation down to about five so that we could give that buffer to to staff. And just noting that this is to contract with a private vendor to that private vendor would also assist in the maintenance and operations. And some companies have even said that if you and if Minneapolis starts working with certain companies that they would bring a staffer to, you know, to work and live here in Minneapolis. And I think we could benefit from an economy of scale. If if other cities in the region started working with the same vendor, then we could have more staff on hand. But of course that's something for public works to do in the contract development. >> So just to be clear, I've heard you mention that I've heard Director Ston mention it's a pilot, but uh what you're saying is that I mean this is ongoing money. That's the budget amendment before us. You're saying that money would run out in about 12 years. Uh so it's kind of a 12-year pilot maybe is what we're saying. Do you know of any areas or businesses um have you worked with the downtown council at all to see where these bathrooms would most appropriately be placed? I would imagine by transit stops. Yeah, all along Nicollet A and the value capture district map is included in the budget proposal. So you can see it goes all the way south to the Kmart site and it goes all the way north into downtown Northeast. >> Council member Pomona's time has expired. Council member Cashman, wrap up your thought so we can get >> and there's also a map in here of urination hotspots that the downtown council is servicing. So I'm guessing that hotspot map would also be helpful data in selecting sites. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you. Um I initially had council member Chowri and Q. Um I will note that she has joined us in this meeting and recognize her for comments. >> Thank you chair Chugai. Thank you, Council Member Cashman, for bringing this amendment forward. Um, I just wanted to speak in support of it. I think that us as a city, um, looking at a longerterm pilot for public restrooms is a great way for us to become a smart city and be a city where it's easy for people of all ages to be able to enjoy different corridors, especially for our transit riders. Um, I was really really impressed by the um, uh, response we got from our legislative directive and to see how many options there are for the city of Minneapolis to contract with. I'll uplift one. Um, thrown toilets was one that I was impressed by because it they had figured out a model that um, address concerns about climate control. um also has uh kind of like a contract that takes care of all of the things around cleaning and maintenance and um in other cities had a dedicated person in the in the region in the area that would come and service the area. And then in terms of safety and use, one of the tactics that they used was um having like uh their city hall, it could be local libraries, it could be a number of organizations that we could partner with that would give uh the community [snorts] members specific cards to access the public restrooms and they would get to card in and get to use it. And then if there was any instance of vandalism or um destruction or just behavior that we don't want to see in our public restrooms, we'd be able to identify that individual card code and shut it off and be able to enforce it that way. So people who are not using toilets the way that they're meant to be used would be held accountable. And I just think the technology and the thought process around this has really developed. And for me, I would really like um to be able to see how this works on um Nicollet Avenue to see how we could expand it throughout the city. Like that's my longer term vision for public public restrooms. In my ward since I started representing the 12th ward, the 46th and Hayawata station has had a really really unique instance of uh people using the restroom um around the transit station or nearby local businesses. And a lot of that has been mitigated with the addition of some portaotties, but still could be improved upon. And that's a major transit hub in and of itself. There's a lot of transfers that happen there, and it's often times a stop that people come into our city from the airport. And so to see a facility like that available to um visitors from outside of our state coming in and heading towards downtown in the future, I think would be a major improvement. and my residents have asked very for a very very long time to see if there's a public restroom option the city can look at and partner with Metro Transit. So, I'm really supportive of this. I think this is going to bring our city into a new modern era and really improve the public realm. And I wanted to ask Council Member Cashman if I could be a co-author on this. >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. Clerks have noted both council member Rainville and and uh Chowry. Excellent. I'll note that we've been joined uh by Council Member Osman. Um I'll next recognize Council Member Chavez, followed by Council Member Pomono. >> Thank you, Chair Chuck Chai, and thank you, Council Member Cashman, for bringing this budget amendment forward. It was great to see some of these bathrooms in Washington DC when we went to the National League of Cities and very excited that you brought this work forward. I think it's really important. I know that it's mostly focused in the downtown area, but my reason for supporting it is because it's important that we start somewhere and if we see that this is something that is going to be really great in downtown, we'd love to see how we could in the future bring this across our different parts of the city in Minneapolis. This is a topic that a lot of my constituents reach out to me when I'm knocking doors, when we're talking about specific specific livability issues on how we can just create access to bathrooms so we can make sure that uh we can have clean streets and neighborhoods. So, uh just really excited, very proud to support this amendment and would ask Council Member Cashman if I could also be added as an author. >> Absolutely. >> Excellent. And then, um we'll close out with Council Member Bulisano. Thank you, Madam Chair. I did have some closing comments I wanted to share and just didn't want to try and push that in at the end. I agree that we need public restrooms and I agree that we need them outside Nicollet Mall like council member Chowry notes. Um but I just don't think this amendment is ready or in a place I can support it today. We have no idea if $600,000 per year is enough to manage all of these factors of installing, operating, and maintaining these units. Um, I would have preferred to see an amendment written as a 3 to 5year pilot, a pilot like Director Ston mentioned, um, so that we can accurately determine what the financial investment is that is needed. Uh, I imagine that site selection alone will be a very cumbersome process and might experience some push back about exactly where these units are placed. So, I do appreciate the interest in this. I am confident it will pass, but I won't be able to support it today. Thank you, Council Member Kman, for your work on this. You've gotten much, much further than many people before you. >> Wonderful. Seeing no further discussion, I will ask the clerk to call the role on amendment number 29, Nichollet Avenue Public Restrooms. >> Council member Payne, >> I. >> Wsley, >> I. >> Rainville, >> I beta >> I >> Osman. I >> cashman. >> I >> Chavez. >> Hi >> Chowry. >> I >> Palmosano. >> Nay. >> Vice Chair Koski. >> I. >> Chair Chuck Tai. >> I. >> That is 10 eyes and one nay. >> That motion carries. Um amendment number 30 is um nighttime business license inspectors offered by council member Rainville. Um, Council Member Rainville, will you please introduce your amendment and make a motion? >> Thank you. So, we have >> If we can turn on your mic, please. >> It's a good start to turn on the mic. Thank you for reminding me. Uh, what you have before you is a um proposal for nighttime business license inspectors operating out of CPED. And u that would move money out of public works to fund this on an ongoing basis. uh continue to work with public works and budget to um working through the the ability to minimize impact on on their budget. I know this is a um a tough ask of public works to do this, but I I wanted to uh speak in favor of this. This is an effort to uh keep our nighttime economy moving. At this point now when uh 5:00 6:00 at night, there is no one on the city staff to help monitor this uh economic engine that is our nighttime economy. And this is an opportunity for me to work with all of you on the council uh to uh see how can we help your business districts whether it's uh Dinky Town, Uptown, East Henipin, Lake Street, uh West Broadway. Think of all the places we have that nighttime economy, yet there's no city management of that. And I also want to direct some comments to CPED. I've talked to Eric Hansen, Director Hansen many times, and I realize this is a tough ask of you as well. Uh, but I'm committed to working with you and your staff and let's let's figure this out. Uh, we need this and I I really hope that um my fellow colleagues can uh support this amendment and work with me. Uh, so I I motion make a motion to approve it. Thank you. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Um, is there any discussion? I'll recognize Council President Payne. >> Uh, thank you, Vice President Chuck T. I'm speaking in support of this amendment. I have uh Northeast has a number of little neighborhood bars and right now the status quo is that um either we have bar owners that are really on top of managing their operations and there's no issues or we have owners that are just overwhelmed by the reality of having a bar in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Uh, I have a survey up here from one of my constituents who just went and knocked doors of his neighbors, got uh, 60 pamphlets out, 45 responses that are just highlighting some of the issues that they have with one of our neighborhood bars. And I think that we need a middle ground between, you know, a well-run bar or a bar that's struggling. And I think that having a higher touch from the city can help make those neighborhoods and those businesses more successful. So, I'm speaking I I I hope everybody supports this. >> I'm not seeing any further discussion. Clerk, please call the role on amendment number 30, nighttime business license inspector. >> Council member Payne, >> I. >> Winsley, >> I. >> Rainville, >> I. >> Vita, >> I. >> Osman, >> I >> Cashman, >> I. >> Chavez, >> I >> Chowry. >> I, >> Pomosisano. >> No, >> Vice Chair Kausski. I >> chair Chugai. I that is 10 eyes's and one nay. That motion carries. Um next is amendment number 31. There is a revised version of this amendment that was uh passed out I believe yesterday. Um this is grocery store development funding offered by council member Wansley. Council member Wansley, will you please introduce and move approval of your amendment? >> Yes. Thank you, Council Vice President Czech Tai. Uh this amendment comes from uh myself and council member Ellison. And for the clerks, I will note that council member Ellison is missing as a co-author on this motion and would like that to be added. Um but this amendment allocates $200,000 to support the development of a grocery store in an area um of our city identified as experiencing high food insecurity or what also as our homegrown council has uh defined to be food apart tide. Uh the revised motion also makes clear that these dollars may only be released if a qualifying organization such as a nonprofit or community development financial institution submits bids for the funding along with matching dollars. Uh my office as well as council member Ellison's office has been in several conversations with potential partners uh both in war two as well as stakeholders in North Minneapolis who have a demonstrated interest in working together to get a grocery store in those respective areas. Um in Dinky Town specifically several community groups um through partnership with the University of Minnesota have even secure funding to hire staff to advance this work. Um these dollars are earmarked sorry earmarked in the great streets fund which limits the geographic areas which uh this grocery store can be but still offers many options for corridors in the areas that would be impacted um and that would touch um the areas that community partners that we've been in discussions also um are interested in advancing this workaround. So with that, I will move this motion for approval and ask for a second. >> Second. >> Uh that amendment number 31 has been properly moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? I will recognize council member Vita. >> Thank you, chair. Um my question is for the author, Council Member Wanley. Um I'm just wondering if there's opportunity here for existing grocery stores uh to benefit from this. I think the the bigger problem we have in Ward 4 is we have North Market that's a struggling grocery store that um you know if we developed a new grocery store it wouldn't be as helpful to the community as helping North Market right so like um I'm just wondering if there's an opportunity or could we maybe create an opportunity in this for a store like North Market or Solo or Colonial Market, some of the stores that we have in North Minneapolis already that are struggling to stay open that may be able to benefit um from some of these dollars in helping not to create another grocery store, but to sustain existing grocery stores um in our community that is uh ran by our community members. >> No. Uh thank you, Council Member of Utah. I do appreciate the tent. Uh this budget amendment is strictly for pre-development dollars. So it is targeted towards communities that's looking to um create a new grocery store. Um I don't know from the conversations that council member Ellison has had. I think some of the um [clears throat] intentions behind that is looking at areas in his ward that are not in proximity to some of the places that you name. So, communities who don't have access through vehicles or whatever the uh the case might be to be able to access those and to have um a store created in their communities and I know that's the case for um my ward as well. But yeah, I do understand that intent would love to have further conversations about that, but this amendment is strictly for the pre-development phase for something new. Thank you. I I would just also say council member um Ellison has Cub Foods in his ward. So, that's like the one major grocery store in in North Minneapolis. But I I understand. I can't support it. I think we need um I think we need to help the businesses that exist already to be sustained. And I I I know for certain that several of the stores in North Minneapolis could benefit from this kind of money. I had had conversations about bringing an amendment forward to help with that. Um, North Market was on the brink of closing the doors at the end of November and someone stepped in and helped them with funding. So, um, I I'm able to have conversations with staff this upcoming year to make sure that we can um I've got a commitment from from staff, you know, to help out in ways that we could and and make sure that they're sustained. They went from um they had changed the their their their entry was the 50% off fruits and vegetables on Wednesdays and they changed that to 25% and they saw a huge decline in people coming to the store. So now they've went to two days a week at 50% off fruits and vegetables. And so that's something we need access to. We need to keep growing that program. And and I think as a city we can help. and I was hoping this would be able to help them and because it can't, I I can't support this. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next, I'll recognize Council Member Osman and note that we've been joined um in this committee by Council Member Jenkins. >> Thank you, uh, Chair. I I I support the amendments. I think it's it's a it's a it's a great uh uh wonderful my area like Elliot Park could definitely use something like this, but I I am a little concerned about limiting this to nonprofits or um you know nonprofits don't start groceries. Groceries are mainly independent, familyowned, familyrun businesses. And um I don't know if this is just a limited to nonprofit only or >> Council Member Osman, you'll see we just listed some examples of organizations that could qualify. Again, it will go through a RFP, so nonprofits, different organizations can submit as long as they have those matching dollars. But it also mentions community development institutions. Um it also mentions, you know, similar groups like that. So it's not just limited to nonprofits. Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next, we'll go to Council Member Rainville, followed by Council Member Cashman. >> Uh, thank you. I I stand in support of Council Member Vita. I I agree 100% that we should support uh the existing grocery stores as well. So, I'm wondering if the author is there any wiggle room in your amendment that at least some information in the in the research of this uh could help uh focus on existing grocery stores as well. >> Thank you, Council Member Rainville. I think we've spent almost nearly a year getting to this place about identifying the need for pre-development dollars. Um, again, I'm more than happy to work with council member Vita, especially our homegrown council who've also talked about this to look at how to support existing stores, but um, the issue that I've had conversations with council member Ellison and just residents in my ward is the need for something new in areas don't have access to a grocery store. So, that's why I want to keep the intent of the amendment as it currently stands. >> Okay. Uh, thank you for that response. Is uh, Council Member Ellison going to come in today? Could we talk with him? Could we lay this over till he's in? >> I don't see the need to do that. I mean, these amendments have been also public. So, if someone I mean, Council Member Vita or yourself would like to find additional funding sources to do exactly uh or accomplish the intent that you're laying out. I think we would love to see that. You have until tonight to do that, but I don't see that needing to come in conflict with what we're considering today. >> Thank you. Um, council member Kashman. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, I had also asked about some flexibility in this funding because I think that our PAR report did have a lot of recommendations including public private partnerships that I think could be explored. And I did want to point out that if you look at our license fee schedule that, you know, businesses who are operating a grocery store have to pay to the city, it ranges from $460 up to $1,700. And I I feel like there could be an opportunity to explore uh waving fees for grocery stores starting in the green zones, for example, or you know, finding ways of reducing the city burden that we're placing on grocery store operators. Maybe exploring a vibrant storefronts type model where we're subsidizing part of the rent to fill vacant storefronts with small grocery stores or convenience stores. I would really like to see this uh issue addressed um flexibly so that we can try to create the maximum output from this money that the council's allocating. I'm wondering if those options that I've put forward now will fall within the budget proposal. >> Yep. Uh thank you, Council Member Cashman. Um again, I can only go by the the motion language that's very I think is clear. It notes it's a one-time appropriation for qualifying organizations and it lists some of those as examples um who have matching dollars to do the pre-development work um to start a grocery store. Um I'm hearing folks would love to explore how to support existing grocery chains or options. That is not what this amendment does. It is to start um new grocery stores in areas that that has been identified or has been identified as a need. Um but it does allow that flexibility in terms of again you need matching dollars, there's contingencies and it lists different examples of organizations who can essentially um be qualified to access these dollars. >> Oh, and one other question, would private companies be eligible for these dollars or is it only for nonprofits? >> I think the goal is absolutely focusing on um organizations that have a public interest. So it lists again community development, financial institutions. We see some of those that kind of actually example that council member Visa mentioned like North Market. Those are some of the organizations that we are seeing doing the heavy lifting of advancing this work. Um private chains as we also saw from that report um that PAR did actually do not have an issue with getting the resources and upfront capital to do development of grocery stores. So that is not where we're seeing the need. it is some of these more publicly linked or publicly financed institutions that want to do this work who don't have those type of resources available to them and this is to help support those. >> Would would uh grocery stores like Good Ger in on the south side be eligible cuz I know that they're one of the few grocery stores that you know provide SNAP and other benefits in the area which is a difficulty right now. >> I think as you know council member Cashman that's an operational decision. I don't get to make that if they are a nonprofit organization or if they have a CDFI. I think that is something that CPAD who will be the or like the host department to be able to determine through the RFP, but I don't even know. Good girl. I don't I can't make that decision. >> Okay. Wonderful. Council member um Palmisano. Council member Rainville, will you turn off your mic? Thanks. Go ahead. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have a question for Director Hansen actually. Um I'm worried that this amount of money is not likely to achieve the goal which is a grocery store in a food insecure area. Um grocery stores are notoriously expensive to develop and maintain and have very little profit margin and that gets to go back into the store. Um what can $200,000 accomplish here? There's no way it can cover space, buildout, inventory, technology, equipment, licenses, or even staff. just to open the doors. Um, but it could really do a lot for existing places like North Market. Director Hansen, my question for you is, um, what services will be lost within business development with this appropriation. >> Uh, good morning, uh, Chair Chug Tai, members of the committee. Uh, I'm Mayor Hansen, the CPED director. And to answer your question, Council Member Palmisano, um, yes, it's a it's it it is it is a it's in the eye of beholder how much money it is. $200,000 though for the the creation of a new grocery store is not going to be sufficient to open a grocery store. It would have to leverage other funding. And that's what the amendment does say. um as the council as the council author um Wanley um talks about it it's le potentially leveraging some matching funds with some organizations that are in the market. Um we are not experts at opening grocery stores. We have talked to others um we as we as this amendment came across our transom we kind of started to do some research about how much this would um hold this is absolutely something that would have to go into an existing building. This wouldn't be a new construction. That would be um cost prohibitive. So, you'd be looking at a maybe retening a space that potentially was a uh a grocery store at some point in time or a space that could have a a size that would make it make sense for a new grocery store to operate. On the margins, you're right, it's significantly thin margins on grocery stores. You're seeing that in North Market. We're also seeing that in the small community- based grocerers, whether uh publicly minded or a for-profit entity and the larger grocery stores. We're seeing that in grocery stores, the grocery store markets. The large grocery stores of a generation ago are the small urban ones. I think of the one like the Cubs that are on on Lake Street, both um the west side and the east side. Those are actually small in the market. We see the newer grocerers building bigger for floor floorrint floor plates um for services and having a a myriad of services. So think about hi's entrant into the market and they have more than just groceries and the deli and that sort of thing. they sell clothes and they have a bar and restaurant and other things that that are drawing people and that has had significant impact on the smaller grocerers in Minneapolis and we've seen that uh especially those larger um uh opportunities to do a a ger grocery store on the on the on the border in the suburban communities. So in Richfield or or in in Brooklyn Center or in um in Robbinsdale that has kind of sucked the trade area. So it's it's very challenging to do grocery in urban areas. Um so uh so that's to think about it. It's it's going to be a portion. We're not certain if this will be successful to get to that. We don't have that data right now. We just know it's expensive to get a a tenant to to find a space to fit it out with all of the racking and coolers and all the things you need. and then to get the um not only to have the inventory but to have the in the the relationships to the distributors. So organization like Cub or or Aldi will have that connection. Uh a startup is going to is going to pay more on the wholesale market than you'd see in those other with a better buying products. So there's there's a lot of headwinds in a grocery store um creation in Minneapolis. That's why we don't see a lot of them and we don't see them in certain areas because the the trade areas of the larger things going to suck them all down. >> Thank you. >> Um, you know, Council Member Cashman mentioned this and it's a good point is what are the some of the city costs that we need to take into um for a grocery store to open in our business. I know we've been able to help some with green cost share types of loans. Um, are there other ways that you know of that we help grocery stores locally through CPED? >> Yeah, Chair Chuck Tai, Council Member Palmasano, our typical commercial, uh, products are available. So, ownership and opportunity fund, the 2% loan program, um, uh, facade programs. Those are typically what we can offer. There's not anything specific to groceries. Uh, the health department, I think, has some programs around, um, having healthy foods. Um and and the green cost share is also the health department. >> Mhm. Um thank you. Those seem like ways that help largely across the city that we can help grocery stores and grocery stores in in trouble. Grocery stores do pay a lot in energy costs. Um and I'll just mention to my colleagues that on Thursday we'll consider a different topic that might raise those energy costs with an increase to the franchise fee. Thank you. Great. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Next, um I'll recognize Council Member Vita. >> Thank you, Director Hansen. Um just a clarifying question. You said that like a previous um store or a previous space could be used. I just just for clarification like are you saying like um the Worth Co-op was in the building on Golden Valley Road? I don't think they stay open for over a year. Um, but they were operating as a grocery store like that would be something that could um come back or you know like into that space that was outfitted for a grocery store from but I think North Point used it as a food shelf at one point too. So like you're seeing that sort of space and that kind of organization. Yeah. Uh, Chair Chuck Tai, Council Member Vita, I'm I'm saying that a new constructed a newly constructed grocery store, [cough] this would not help, right? Just wouldn't you'd have to look for space. I think that worth co-op space is too small. >> Okay, >> that's one of the reasons it didn't operate. Yes, North Point did operate it as a food shelf, but it it is it does not have the square the the floor space to operate at a profitable uh market. You probably North Market is probably the smallest we're going to see. So, you're going to have to look for buildings like that or former Aldi, they've moved around. Um, but you're going to need like somewhere north of 15,000 square feet in order for it to work. And even then, they're going to be on some pretty tight margins. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Not seeing anyone else in Q. Clerk, please call the role on the revised number 31, grocery store development funding. Council member Payne, >> I. >> Winsley, >> I. >> Rainville, >> no. >> Vita, >> no. Osman >> I >> Cashman >> I >> Jenkins >> nay >> Chavez >> I >> Chowry >> I >> pomisano >> no >> vice chair Koski >> I chair Chugai >> I >> that is eight I's and four nazs that motion carries um next is amendment number 32 commercial adaptive reuse study offered by Council Member Kman. Um, Council Member Kman, will you please introduce and move approval of your amendment? >> Thank you, Madam Chair. This uh amendment before us is a $125,000 one-time appropriation within CPAD to study the public benefit of and evaluate financial incentives for adaptive reuse of underutilized commercial buildings. So yesterday in our budget committee, we heard from the Q3 financial status presentation that property taxes are projected to be $17.4 million under budget. We also saw in the city assessor's 2025 report that the estimated market value of downtown commercial property values fell 9.5% from 2024 to 2025. And we are seeing in-person work still at just 75% of its pre-COVID levels as of late 2025. And we have taken some steps as a city to incentivize the conversion of office buildings into housing to become a more productive um use for downtown with the zoning code reforms that we passed last year. But we have not really explored a financial incentive to make this happen. And while we understand the barriers that exist to converting these buildings in financial barriers, engineering barriers, we don't fully understand the public benefit. And I would like us as a city to to study that public benefit to model the the benefits of converting a building like the Northstar Center right in the center of downtown. It converted from a vacant office into 500 units of housing. And that of course lowers the commercial the property tax rate because it goes from a commercial rate to a residential rate. But at the same time it brings 500 new residents into that core which support the uh sales tax of the neighboring areas. It also brings up the value of the buildings nearby because it's now occupied. And if we're going to really tackle this issue with the uh with the force that we need, I believe that we need to have better metrics and modeling to support the policies that we'll continue to push for at the state legislature and here at the city moving forward. So I will move this study for approval and ask for your support. >> Second. >> We have uh that amendment number 32 has been properly moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? Council member Pulmanisano. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I think the success of the Groove Lofts have shown us that this can be done. I am curious about what the barriers are preventing more of this reuse. Um, we certainly have enough empty buildings. Um, but I also know it's extraordinarily expensive to do this right now. So maybe some other help will um will be helpful in this in this area. So, thank you for this amendment. Not seeing any further discussion. Clerk, please call the role on amendment number 32, commercial adaptive reuse study. Council member Payne, >> I. >> Wansley, >> I. >> Rainville, >> I. >> Vita, >> I >> Osman, >> I >> Cashman, >> I >> Jenkins, >> I >> Chavez, >> I >> Chowry, >> I >> Palmisano, >> I, >> Vice Chair Kausski. I >> chair Chugai I. That is 12 eyes. That motion carries. We are next going to move to amendment number 33, which is vacant retail activation offered by council member Kman and myself. I will recognize council member Kman to please introduce and move approval of this item. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for co-authoring this amendment with me. This is another economic development proposal to address the retail vacancies that we're seeing citywide. The proposal is for a cost share program for vacant retail activation, which would support uh property owners actually making physical changes to their buildings to allow for for the tenants uh retail tenants to come in. Whether that's subdividing their space into smaller spaces that would be more affordable to local small businesses or even adding doors to allow for um shoppers to be able to get into buildings which we're seeing as well. And this would be a cost share program. So we'd really be uh leveraging private investment as well at the same time. I did write a pretty detailed uh proposal here. But of course, this would be in the hands of of CPAD to develop the program and it is pulling on the downtown assets fund, but it is for a citywide program so that uh [snorts] every ward could benefit from the benefit of this retail activation. And I'll just note we've had a lot of success with Vibrant storefronts in the past couple of years, which is a rental subsidy. And I think this is kind of 2.0 know of the vibrant storefronts model where we're actually funding improvements of the physical spaces to make it affordable for small businesses to rent in the long term. And I think the economy of the future is really supporting uh smaller square footage in our in our retail spaces so that our local businesses can afford the cost of rent. So I will move approval of this item. Is there a second? >> Second. >> We have a proper motion before us. Is there any discussion? Council Member Pomisano. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to point out that this amendment along with amendments 26 and 27 transfers $2.2 million from downtown assets. Um, while I understand this amendment is meant to just reduce empty retail space at a time that we're trying to revitalize downtown, that is a lot of money coming all from the same source here. So, I wanted to point that out. Thank you. >> Thank you. Is there any further discussion? Going once, going twice. Not seeing any. Um, clerk, please call the role on amendment number 33, vacant retail activation. Council member Payne, >> I. >> Wsley, >> I. >> Rainville, >> I. >> Vita, >> I. >> Osman. >> I, >> Cashman. >> I, >> Jenkins, >> I, >> Chavez. >> I, >> Chowry. >> I, >> Pomisano. >> I, >> Vice Chair Kausski. >> I, Chair Chuck Tai, >> I. That is 12 eyes. That motion carries. Next up is amendment number 34. Um, invest in childcare workers offered by council member Wanley. Council member Wansley, will you please introduce and move approval of your amendment? >> Yes. Thank you, Council Vice President Czechai. Uh this amendment builds off of work and investments made by the council and the city last budget cycle to support the expansion of the child care workforce which has been identified as a strategy in addressing the high cost of child care for working families in our city. Um this this earmark uh about $12,000 in CPAD's workforce development fund which has approved budget of 14 million. was support funding a FTE that would help residents interested in early child care education get plugged into the correct pathways and programs. Uh this was brought forward out of many conversations with stakeholders including Minneapolis public schools and other uh local child care providers. And uh conversations with those stakeholders and other experts in the field have consistently focused on the huge role that um workforce shortage plays in increasing the cost of child care and how beneficial it would be to create clearer pathways into child careers for high school students, college students, and people of all ages in our community. Um and this FTE will lead the creation of those pathway initiatives and programs and conversations with those partners. Um this funding will of course have a massive impact on increasing um the early child care uh workforce which will help local residents um and workers um in essentially accessing these services and also ideally experiencing um some financial relief as well. So with that I will uh motion approval of this item and request a second. >> Is there second? >> Um the item has been properly moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? I'll recognize Council President Payne. >> Uh thank you, Vice President Chuck Tai. This is so extraordinarily timely. Uh and it oddly pairs with our previous amendment around uh grocery store access. Uh I actually have a new Aldi coming into the ward and the current development plan is to have that Aldi have a condo for uh a childare center. and the developer is trying to work with a child care uh development organization that uh the kind of similar to the grocery store model the uh childcare centers are running on really tight margins as well um and there's some interine tax policy around um center like seminary centers of learning that are qualifying for um uh tax abatement which could be the make or break difference on whether or not we get another childare center in the ward. It's really technical. It's really complex. I could see us having uh a full-time staffer uh that knows how to navigate some of these challenges so that we can actually uh expand access to child care to our community. So, uh there's a real need for this and it's really timely. So, thank you, Council Member Winsley. >> Thank you. Next, I'll recognize Council Member Pomono. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Minneapolis public schools already has a career pathways program for prek through sixth grade. It's in partnership with Mano State and Metro State. And that's about all I know about it. Um perhaps others know more here, but I really don't think it makes sense to reinvent the wheel and have CPED stand up a brand new program utilizing an FTE when this other program already exists. Would this need to be a new track as part of the existing career pathways program. I'm seeing council member Wanley nod yes. Um to me unfortunately this feels like a duplication with the public schools. Thank you council member Wanley. >> Yeah. Thank you CBP Chuckai. Just for clarity for council member Pomisano there is a distinct difference and I think you know this as someone who has school age children between preschool and early childhood education. in early childhood education comes before preschool. That is where we have the gap and where we're seeing the greatest need amongst families um who have to pay either child care providers um to provide educational and also child care just opportunities to their uh youngest to the youngest members of their families until they are preschool ready and can go either through a public school or non-public school track. So these are distinctly different and the gap is really focused in on early childhood education and that is not a space where we uh see NPS is filling which is why they've been part of these conversations with our office and city staff around how we can work together to create um this FTE position to support a pathway program. Um so we have great partners at the table both at NPS also at the state level who are really excited about that and again will encourage my colleagues to support Seeing no further discussion, clerk, please call the role on amendment number 34, invest in childare workers. Council member Payne, >> I. >> Wsley, >> I. >> Rainville, >> I. >> Vita, >> I >> Osman, >> I >> Cashman, >> I >> Jenkins, >> I >> Chavez, >> I >> Chowry, >> I >> Palmisano, >> no. >> Vice Chair Kausski, >> I chair of Chugtai. I that is 11 eyes and one nay. That motion carries. Next we are ready to move to amendment number 35 enterprise policy management system staff direction offered by Council President Payne. Um Council President Payne, will you please introduce and move approval of this amendment and make sure to um just note that this is a Z amendment. Just walk through um some of the context so everyone is aware. Uh thank you Vice President Chuck Tai. As we discussed in our last cow, we are moving forward with a um policy management platform. This was a budget amendment last year. Uh we are very much on our way to getting a vendor identified. It's just the timing of it all. This these funds need to be rolled over and we need to take this action so that um that we can actually leverage those funds that were allocated for this year's budget. Uh Mr. Clerk, did you want to speak to this at all? uh through the chair. Mr. President, I appreciate that summary. This is um an enterprisewide project to provide the the funding to acquire a new system to to manage the process of both uh bringing forward and developing policies, but also of managing and making those policies available to the public. So, I appreciate the support for that. >> Is there a second to Council President Payne's um motion? Second. >> Um, we that item has been properly moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? >> I'm not seeing any. Clerk, please call the role on amendment number 35, enterprise policy management system staff directive. >> Council member Payne, >> I. >> Wsley, >> I >> Rainville. >> I >> bet >> I >> Osman. >> I >> Cashman. >> I >> Jenkins. >> I >> Chavez. >> Hi, >> Chowry. I >> pomisano >> I >> vice chair Kosski >> I >> chair Chuck Tai >> I that is 12 I's that motion carries. Next up is amendment number 36 policy um for the people and we will take up 36A and B together. Um this amendment is offered by council member Wansley. Um a revision to this was uh passed out I believe um on Friday or yesterday. Um, but there's a second revision and um it's also in yellow and the top of it reads number 36, second revision. Council member Wanley, please introduce and move approval of your amendment. >> Uh, thank you, Council Vice President Cexai. Um, since coming into office, my priority postgovernment structure has always been to uh ensure the development and growth of the legislative branch. Um, and making sure that we have the resources and infrastructure that we need um to carry out our responsibilities um and authorities to serve the 400 plus thousand residents that we all represent across the city. um and ensuring funding is available for the legislative body to uh do that work um complements us needing FTEES to carry that out um and specifically to carry out research evaluation oversight and policy expertise um needs uh that support our work as well. Um, this legis, sorry, this motion in front of you, um, essentially repurposes the very original, uh, motion where we were looking to, uh, pull FTEEs from the administrative side, um, to essentially, uh, use already existing, um, FTE positions that's within, uh, the legislative department or the city clerk's um, office that's actually already in motion for classification. and those positions would be supporting um the very specific uh committees that actually carry a bulk of our work on the legislative process. So, I'm very grateful to know that um our clerk staff has been prioritizing uh its work um to make sure we get these FTEEs as opposed to us having to find um new resources to support that. Um, so the $25,000 that you see reflected is uh appropriation that would be made from the legislative department to HR to ensure that the JFQs and class classifications that would need to happen to get us those additional positions would receive the proper uh support uh needed. um we actually have to use the support of a vendor um that does that classification because there is such a huge backlog for our internal HR team who are also responsible for those um so we'll be guaranteed support um through that vendor with this appropriation and then the subsequent motion is a staff directive to the legislative department making sure that we get a report um back on the progress for uh getting those FTEES the classifications the JAQ just making sure we're moving along with the actual formalization of those positions um for uh no later than March of 2026. Um so just closing the loop on making sure we get those positions. Um so those are what those two uh motions do and I will move those items for approval and ask for a second. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Um that item has been properly moved and seconded. I will note um as you can see in your binder, the very first draft of this amendment um was taking approximately um half a million dollars ongoing out of the the mayor's office um uh department. And I um am just I'm really grateful to to the author to council member Wanley here for um you know her her willingness to um be flexible and find a creative solution here um that that is an alternative to such a significant reduction to the mayor's office. And thank you for again your willingness to to collaborate and and compromise and come to the table. Um, and I'm glad we were able to find a a solution that that moves us forward. Um, is there uh is there any further discussion? Not seeing any. Clerk, please call the role on amendment number 36, including both the motion and the staff direction. Um, this amendment is policy for the people. Council member Payne, >> I Rainville. >> I Utah. >> Osman. I >> cashman. >> I >> Jenkins. >> I >> Chavez. >> I >> Chowry. >> I >> Palisano. >> I >> vice chair Koski. >> I and chair Chuck Tai. >> I that is 12 eyes. >> That motion carries. Next up is amendment number 37 audit department FTEES offered by council president Payne, council member Chowry and council and vice chair Kofsky. Council President Payne, will you please introduce and move approval of your amendment? >> Uh, thank you, Vice President Chuck Tai. This amendment is to uh the city auditor presented uh a vision for the department that included a buildout of the special review and advisory services. Uh this is uh essentially two years in the making. We originally created the office of um uh or the division of oversight and what was OE oversight and evaluation and policy and research within the auditor's office. Uh we worked with the city attorney. Those functions were uh identified to be better suited working directly within the legislative department, not as a part of our independent auditor. Our uh Mr. Timberman who's in uh in the audience brought forward a proposal to try to build out that vision of a strength and oversight capability within the the auditor's department that is the special review and advisory services. um and has given us very clear guidance that his intent is to, you know, take on large issues in the city when it comes to oversight as evidenced by the willingness to take on the investigation of the shooting of Davis Murray, the investigation of the death of Allison Lucer. uh and you know we got to a point where he was running out of capacity as we were running into uh higher need for oversight and and so for um Mariah Samuels he was not able to take that on this this budget amendment is really aimed at making sure that our city auditor has the capacity to say yes. Um, and I'll also note that we worked really closely with uh our budget team. Starting in the beginning of the year, we identified four FTEEs to move over to the auditor's office with the vision of a a multi-year buildout. Um, the mayor actually cut two of those positions and in his recommended budget, I wanted to restore those positions and do the full buildout as a result of that cut. Um, I want to actually thank Vice President Chug Tai for her leadership uh to work with the administration to actually get us to a source that was amendable to the administration. She moved heaven and earth to try to get to uh a place where uh everybody can support this and so I'm grateful to the administration's work on that as well. Uh and I will move approval of this item and ask for a second. we that I amendment number 37 has been properly moved and seconded. I want to note for colleagues this is the revised number 37 that we are looking at. Um, and again want to uh thank the authors for their um their their incredible diligence and um willingness to collaborate um compromise come to the table um and um really really grateful for for the product that's before us today. Is there any further discussion? I will recognize council member Palmisano. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I really appreciate that many people have come to the table to figure out a way to fund this amendment. It took um quite a bit of work and collaboration and also trust between one another. Um I chaired the audit committee for 10 years and there's nobody more than I that understands the importance of the office of the city auditor. That does give me a unique perspective. I will say this, this department has grown quite a bit over the past couple of years. Now we're adding four more positions, replacing two that were removed and vacant, plus an additional two. And we've all seen departments that have grown too fast. I will support this today because of the trust involved here on all sides. But I do want to caution us to give audit a chance to absorb these new positions and be responsible about their growth. um this department is too important to not be monitor monitoring its ability to incorporate all these new positions in the work that they are intended to do. Thank you. Thank you. And finally, I'll recognize Council Member Cashman. Thank you, Madam Chair. I, you know, appreciate that everybody was working to compromise here, but I do have some concerns that public works and CPAD are getting their positions taking taken instead of the mayor's office positions. uh of politically appointed positions and I'm wondering how how it came to be that um you know the mayor and his uh negotiating team came to agree that public works and CPAD positions should be taken for this. Um that's an excellent question council member Kashman. I'm going to ask um Director Denza if we can get um council if we can get um COO Anderson Keller here. Um, while we're doing that, I will um attempt to first respond to your question. Um, the these are all positions that are vacant. Um, they were identified um by the the negotiating team that um that that the mayor identified as as we work through um this markup packet. Um, and I can't speak further to um, why these were the positions that were picked and and so I think that's something the COO can do or we can see if um, Mr. Jelly or um, you know, I know I see we have both the CPED and the public works directors here. I don't know if we want to invite them up um, to just talk about these vacancies. Um, all right. The deputy COO it is. There we go. Rock, paper, scissors. [laughter] If you'll first begin by introducing yourself. >> Good morning, uh, council members. Brett Jelly, deputy city operations officer for development, health, and livability. Um, I will speak the best I can to the conversations. I was not uh was not in the room with council vice president. But as we were uh working through um budget amendments and trying to find sources that both sides could agree to, we worked with um all departments and reviewed current vacancies and were able to find the um positions that are in the amendment. um were something that uh our side we could support and agree with just to make sure we had a deal. >> All right. Thanks. I just wanted to point out that, you know, I think the mayor put out a commentary in the Star Tribune saying it was mean-spirited to cut from his staff, but at the end of the day, he's the CEO of the city and all 4,000 staff are his staff. And so, I think it's right to be equally concerned about staff in CPED and public works as it is the many, you know, politically appointed policy aids in his office. And I think uh what I'm seeing here is that these are vacant positions and so there's no one being laid off by this cut. And so I think that was a line that was drawn, but just wanted to point out that you know that that these are still um that these are still the mayor's staff as well. Certainly. Um, and do do you do you want us to invite up either of the directors and or has your question been sufficiently answered? >> And the public works in particular, transportation planning and programming and transportation operations, mobility. What would be the impact of those cuts to public works? If if director ston can speak to that. >> Welcome. Thank you, Chair Chuckai. Council member Cashman. Um, in terms of impacts, you know, um, the transportation planning and programming staff do bring our projects up to 30% design. They do they lead the public engagement. Um, so reductions in that area will reduce the level of public engagement we can do. Will slow down project development. Um, and then in transportation, uh, excuse me, traffic and parking services where the other position is coming from, I believe that one is in our sign shop, and they're responsible for printing signs and being able to respond quickly, whether it's things like the Lena Smith Boulevard changeover [clears throat] or the um the recent signs that we posted related to prohibiting ice in city um use of city parking lots. Um so reducing staff while it's not like we cannot do a single task it will slow down and impact the things that we do. Um that said it's you know when you look at the total combination of all cuts to public works as part of that have been approved thus far we are looking at you know six staff and over almost $500,000. So it's difficult to say specific items that we can or cannot do because of the type of work that we engage in but there there will be impacts. things will be slowed down or there will be things throughout the year that we cannot get to. >> Okay. Well, I appreciate you advocating for your department. Um, every department has given some in this in these negotiations. I know even the legislative department gave to cover co- enforcement to restore those cuts. And um, yeah, I guess I'm just disappointed that instead of cutting from politically appointed political operatives in the city, we're cutting from more core city services positions for this. And I will once again clarify these are all vacant positions. Um so there isn't a current service that is being provided that will then go away um and or a layoff h have um or have a layoff unfold. So um but appreciate the conversation and the discussion. I'm not seeing anyone else in quue. Clerk, please call the role on the revised amendment number 37 audit department FTEES. >> Council member Payne >> I. >> Wsley >> I. Rainville. >> I >> bet >> I >> Osman. >> I >> Cashman. >> I >> Jenkins. >> I >> Chavez. >> I >> Chowry. >> I >> Palmosano >> I. >> Vice Chair Kausski >> I >> and Chair Chai >> I. That is 12 eyes. >> That motion carries. Next up is amendment number 38 um around budgetary control financial policy offered by um myself, vice chair Kofsky and council member Wanley. I will introduce this amendment um and move approval and then we will go to the city attorney who will walk through um what is actually in this amendment in detail. Um so I will say um you know with intention this this is a budget cycle that um I have I am the lead author on just this amendment alone and it is a change to financial policies and a Z amendment um at its core. So, um you know, I think we uh we are in the in the in the years that I have been um a member of this council, um I think there is a a real need for us to build some some guard rails around um around our how money is um spent once it has been allocated through the budget process. Um and build in some some accountability. Um, and so these are a few sections to the to the financial policies that that ultimately um are all trying to address pieces of um of that that uh accountability. With that, I'm going to ask um for a second and then we'll go to the city attorney. Um Madame City attorney, can you please walk us through what is in this amendment? >> Um thank you. Uh, madame chair, council members. Um, so I'm going to try to in uh both sort of simply enough but also in detail explain what this financial policy does. Um, overall uh it uh it's it's amendments to the budgetary controls policy and the purposes are both to clarify portions of the policy that have always been there um [snorts] and also add new requirements to aid in budgetary transparency. So, let me just step through each of the sections. Um, as as you know, we already have a budgetary controls policy. It is much shorter than what is before you. So, I'm going to try to highlight the things that are the same and the things that are different. So, the very first section is called legal level of budgetary control, budget amendments, and reporting. This first section of the policy repeats what was already in the policy and codifies legal fact. Under our charter, through the annual budget process, the council annually appropriates money for each department's programs and operations. This annual departmental budget we refer to in this policy and have defined it as department/fundle liable budget. This is the same term that exists in the current financial policy. But let me explain what this means. I'll give you an example um from my office's budget and I'm going to try to weave in some examples using my office's budget um because that's what I understand and I think it might be helpful um for general understanding. So in the 2025 um department fund level budget for my office. So department would be city attorney's office, fund is general fund and for 2025 my department/fundle level budget was about $23 million. So that's what I'm going to talk about. So even though sometimes we present budgetary data in a more granular granular way. So for my office say $10 million for the civil division and $13 million for the criminal division. The departmentfund level budget is that topline appropriation to my office of $23 million. So under this policy, as was true under the existing policy, departments are not authorized to amend or exceed their bud departmental budget that was approved during the annual budget process without council approval. So I can't as a department head without council approval amend my budget to be $24 million instead of $23 million. There are some exceptions to this that I will come back to. Uh but just like is true under the current policy within my 30 million $23 million budget, I have the authority to exercise operational control to administer my third $23 million budget, which includes the authority to shift funds within my department budget as I deem appropriate to carry out my department's functions. So, for example, if I have an attorney position in the criminal division, but I decide that because of all of the federal litigation we've become involved in, that I need that position in the civil division, I have the authority to shift those funds from the criminal division to the civil division without approval as long as I stay within my $23 million departmental budget, that department level budget, again, city attorney's office general fund. As I said previously, there are some important exceptions in charter to the general proposition that departments can exceed their budgets without council approval. And those are also addressed in this policy. Now, so number one, the charter gives the finance department the administrative authority to authorize payments that may exceed the department's budget in order to pay payroll. That's explicit. And number two, the charter permits the council by ordinance to authorize the payment of routine claims and bills. Both of these exceptions are important to ensure the city satisfies its legal payment payment obligations. So, another example, if the council votes to approve a labor agreement with the attorneys union midway through the year, giving raises that weren't accounted for in my annual departmental budget, finance can lawfully pay the attorney salaries, even if the amount ultimately exceeds my $23 million budget. What's new in this policy, though, is explicitly requiring transparency. Under this policy, any of these administrative authorizations must be included in the finance department's next quarterly report. So that's the first section. Moving on, second section is called council dedicated funds. This policy newly addresses council earmarks and we have defined those. We've used the term council dedicated funds in the policy and define it there. These earmarks are captured in your budget amendments dedicating funds for a specific purpose. For example, the earmark earmark of funds to the office of immigrant and refugee affairs for the purpose of providing community engagement and support for im immigrant and refugee communities. The policy provides for both controls and reporting. So under the policy number one, the earmarked funds can't be used for different per purposes without council approval. The policy provides that the administration may request council approval for reallocation. Number two, the administration must report by April 30th on its spending plan for the earmarks and a status report by August 31st. And number three, if the administration determines it can't carry out the purpose of the earmarks for whatever reason, or if it determines the earmark is for more money than necessary, it needs to report within 60 days of that determination the amount, the reason, the effect on carrying out the earmark's purpose, and any other relevant information. Moving on, next section is called reporting of [clears throat] anticipated overspending. The policy creates another reporting requirement on departmental spending. Under the policy, number one, if at the time of the quarterly finance department report, a department exceeds the pr-rated amount of the departmental budget. again that department/fund level budget which would be for me 20 my $23 million budget the department must report it to council with a proposed correction action plan if applicable so for an example say at quarter 2 I've already spent more than half of my $23 million budget I would report that that does not necessarily mean that I'm on target to go over budget bills tend to come in at different times of the year so if I had a big bill due in the first half of the year and I know that I have sufficient funds in my budget to pay for everything else in the second half of the year, I would just explain that in my report and wouldn't need a corrective action plan. Number two, if at any time a department reasonably expects that by the end of the year it is going to go over budget, the department has to promptly notify finance and include that information in the next quarterly report. Number three, if by any uh sorry, if by the end of the year the department actually has exceeded its annual department budget, then the next year the department must submit monthly budgetary status status reports to the council. And number four, as another check within the system, the legislative department will have access to the city's financial systems, which is also another transpar transparency measure to maintain the integrity of those systems. that access will be restricted to view only capability and subject to the finance department's normal operating policies and procedures. And then the final section is called lapses and rollover. And I believe it's identical, if not close to identical to what has already been in there, but I might as well explain it as long as I'm on a roll. So this section of the policy again same as the current policy unspent appropriations generally lapse at the end of the year and money goes back to the fund from whence they came. But there is a rollover process where appropriations that are unspent but are encumbered which means obligated for example through an executed contract can be authorized to continue rollover into the next budget year. So for 2026, the city attorney's office budget might be $23 million plus $100,000 for an ex expert witness contract that was executed in 2025 for services to be rendered in 2026. So that's essentially what's covered in that. Thank you. Thank you, madame city attorney. I want to um thank you the finance department and um the the leaders of the legislative department um for working together on um on crafting this um this amendment. Uh I will see if there are any questions or discussion. Council member Palmisano. Madame Chair, um I wanted to speak on this item and I had a chance to speak with you at length about it last night, so I will work to be brief. Um, I really did appreciate our conversation and you your willingness to, pardon me, to talk through this with me. Um, and at the point of last night, my first reaction was that while I take council's role in oversight very seriously, I believed that this went too far. It required so much added reporting that it felt a bit punitive. And I felt we needed to balance our agreed duty of oversight and excessive requirements that take staff away from their regular duties, from the things that we expect them to be doing. Um, as attorney Anderson pointed out, there are a lot of reasons our departments can go over budget and, you know, we need to cast a wide net there. Yes, MPD and MFD go over budget for overtime. a couple years ago and as we heard earlier um the assessor's office was over budget in the past due to a wage study and then currently due to new technology. Um I do think we can conduct our oversight duties without requiring constant reporting that requires a lot of time. Um and this is the first of a few policy items today on our docket. two new ordinances we'll hear at cow um that require a lot of reporting by staff but um sitting with our conversation last night council member Chugtai and hearing attorney Anderson's explanation today um and checking in with a couple of other people I I do think that one this was a big lift and I am I am eager to move in this direction and to be supportive of this today so thank you this clearly took quite a bit of work on your end to pull together. >> Thank you, council member. Um, I'll recognize council member Kashman. >> Thank you, Madame Chair. I'm a little concerned about small departments having to do this reporting. Did you consider at all departments that might not have the resources to do support uh to do reporting like the assessor's office who did go over budget but has a valid reason and process to ameliate that issue? Um I think in one way or another uh the the reason a department would go over budget is is justifiable in some way. Um whether that justification is acceptable to the body or to taxpayers is a different question. Um I every single department regardless of their size meets with the the um budget office um on a monthly basis to go over their their budget um and uh to to review the their pr-rated budgets by month and um and and be able to project out when there will be an overage. This work is already happening. it's that it doesn't come it it doesn't we don't have uh a line of sight into it outside of quarterly reporting. Right. Yesterday we received the third quarter financial status report and finance and the controllers's office correctly pointed out that um the overage within the police department was something that um that we knew was going to happen all the way at the beginning of the year but nobody up here was planning for such an overage and its impact on the bigger picture. So this is about bringing line of sight into that and then also um you know really reiterating to departments that their their adopted budgets are not suggestions. That that is a formal um act by the body and is something that everyone should be working to stay within target of even when there are real reasons not to and um and we'll accommodate that. But that that needs to come with a level of of accountability too. So that when departments are in the position where they have to come before us on a monthly basis um to review their their budgets that um there is always a like a high bar for what is a justifiable reason for going over budget. So we're you know trying to manage so we have a line of sight into this right. We just received again third quarter financial status report yesterday. Third quarter ended. We're we're near the end of the fourth quarter right now. So a bunch of time passes in between these things and it's important that we are staying on top of um of potential um financial issues like the scale of of MPD overspend. >> I just have a couple other questions for you too. Um does this work retroactively or is this only moving forward? The reason I ask is because in last budget we moved money from the mounted patrol stable lease to fund a crime prevention specialist in the fifth precinct office of community safety just decided nope we don't want to end the mounted patrol program and nope we don't want to hire a crimerevention specialist and just didn't do it and that was something that I think was incredibly wrong. Um and I'm wondering how this resolution addresses that. Excellent question. I'm going to go to the city attorney. Um thank thank you madam chair council members. This is prospective. >> So not retroactive not retroactive. It does not look back at at ear marks from the 2025 budget. This is this will be in effect for ear marks going forward for the 20 that you've just passed with the 2026. >> It will start with the 2026 budget. Correct. And we don't have any way to >> adjust. big part of why we put this in place um because of the exact issues that you have you've outlined um here and have brought up over the course of markup and over the course of this year. >> Yeah. And I will keep talking about it because [laughter] I think it wasn't right and it's something that the council needs to keep considering uh as they as they work with those that department in particular moving forward. >> Excellent. Thank you, Council Member Chowry, followed by Council President Payne. >> I'll keep my remarks really brief. I just wanted to say I appreciate this um coming forward. I think this is a really pragmatic forward-looking policy. Um I think this is also an outgrowth of government structure and how we as the council and um the administration work together and communicate with one another. uh with the change in government structure, one of the things that I have seen as like um one of the barriers to to success in our organization is these huge gaps in communication and being on the same page. And as it comes to our budgetary controls and the amendments that we've made and where they end up throughout a calendar year, that's been a huge hole that has one, um, led to frustration, but two, like brass tax impacts our ability to budget in a way that's more collaborative. And I think reporting is a good thing and we're probably going to need more in different parts of the organization as we try to figure out how do we address communication gaps to do our jobs and ultimately do the work of supporting the constituents of Minneapolis. So, thank you for bringing this. >> Thank you, Council President Payne. >> Uh, thank you, Vice President Chuck Tay. I'll echo some of the sentiment that Council Member Chowry is sharing around just formalizing better [clears throat] communication. And I think uh one of the big themes of this term that I've had with the administration is that we can work informally or we can work formally. We can look at uh the relationships that we've built or we can look at the charter. And I think that as we have evolved into this new government structure increasingly we are estab establishing a need for increasing levels of formality because there are such breakdowns in informal communication. And I think um you know it's shockingly timely that this is being brought forward cuz I mean one of the questions that was asked I think council member Kashman asked this of um our safety commissioner of you know what are you doing to prevent these types of overages and in December as we're finalizing our budget they're saying they're going to start a conversation around more oversight. That that was as shocking to me as the actual dollar figure of the over budget. They should have known these problems at the beginning of the year and had those conversations started at the beginning of the year. So it's not even just a breakdown in in communication between the legislative and executive sides of our government. It was a breakdown of communication within administrative departments, right? And so I think that this level of oversight and more importantly transparency is what's going to enable us to have much more informed better governance conversations. So this is just just a win all around. Thank you. >> Thank you. And finally, I'll recognize council member Wanssley. >> Thank you, CBP Chex. I just wanted to also share a few comments as a co-author and and my intentions for also being part of this work. Um this actually align with something council member Cashman mentioned of actually experiencing now multiple budget cycles where um this council has made appropriations and we do not see the mayor then implement or execute them. Um, we're even seeing that play out in this existing budget where we know council may appropriations for 2025 uh for emergency housing vouchers to get 150 unsheltered people into permanent housing with wraparound services. And that work did not um get executed this budget cycle and now we're having to do the restoration of that along with other like civilian investigators right now. And as you mentioned, crime prevention specialists, safety ambassadors, there's numerous examples to point to of this council fulfilling our authority, making the appropriations based off of what we hear from our residents as top priorities, and then not often seeing the administration be a willing partner to then do their part of executing on them regardless of how they feel about them or not. Um, so I will name that was my intent and also not wanting to be um in another cycle next year of asking and doing legislative directives and trying to follow up or quote unquote micromanaging the administration on why they're not implementing the things that this council passed um and said we want to see the advanced we want to see be executed and that is your responsibility. And the technical term that we learned through this process for that is called empowerment. um when the executive does that, we're actually seeing Congress now actually use empowerment actions because this is literally playing out by um President Trump in many ways of not executing congressional earmarks and other funding appropriations that's being made um because our executive at the federal level also don't like them. Um so we don't want to get to that level at the municipal uh side of things. So, this was one of the ways in which we were able to say, "Let's figure out a policy um solution to make sure there's greater transparency and oversight over the administration as it pertains to council's budget amendments because apparently that is where we have the greatest issue in seeing work be implemented and executed." And I will even name throughout this budget cycle, we've seen our own COO um come forward and name multiple times this this underlining we don't know if we'll implement this or we don't know if we'll implement one of these budget priorities. And it's like if this body passed it, it should be implemented. It should not be used as a a political pawn of things. Um we're simply trying to do our jobs. We want the administration to do theirs. And this essentially acts as guard rails for both of us to basically do the work that taxpayers and constituents sent us to do. Um, so I'm really excited that we were able to get to this place to bring this policy forward. I I will note I'll be bringing a revision as well tonight that addresses something else that has come forward in this process around um greater monitoring around our legal settlement dollars. Um, and I think we constantly hear that be used as a reason for dollars going out the door, but no accounting for what what is it for. It's just, oh, it's a legal settlement and it's next thing you know, we're $20 million over budget. Um, and that's not also appropriate. So, um, I want to name that'll be coming tonight. Um, but that said, I'm grateful for my co-authors for working together, city staff to get to a place where we can bring this policy forward today. >> Wonderful. Thank you, Council Member Wanley. Uh, just to clarify, are you bringing an amendment to number 38? >> That is correct. >> Okay. So, here's um here's my suggestion then, like let's hold this so that we can just get it amended. We don't have to do an additional motion to reconsider. Um, and we'll pick up right here. Um, and I'm not seeing any further discussion on this item. So, laying this over until this evening. And here's what I want want to do um in terms of how we're moving forward now. Um so we've got uh number 38 which is going to have a an amendment. We have a new number 39 based on um something that came up in discussions with uh the legislative department. Um we have a new number 40 offered by council member Chowry. We have um a revision to number 11 and number 12 that was passed out. Um and that's just accommodating an additional change that that was flagged by the administration. And then finally um I I think there's a couple of additional revisions um to um to to amendments that authors have made me aware of. So that's a total of 1 2 3 4 5 6 seven items that we need to take up. I want to give people some time um because I know cow is going to run really long today and it's very possible we roll right from cow to the public hearing. So I want to um adjourn this meeting. Um we're going to obviously make a motion to pass everything over to the to council for this evening. And after the public hearing concludes in our council meeting tonight, we'll take up the remaining items um in the in in the order I've outlined. So um with that uh Mr. Clerk, I make a motion to send everything um over up to the council. Correct. >> Um so I'll make that motion and ask for a second. Second. >> Wonderful. Um and all those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. >> I. Those opposed say nay. Any abstensions. The eyes have it. Um that motion carries. I will see you all tonight. And seeing no objections, we stand adjourned. >> With our binders, >> please. Yes. Bring your binders. >> Oh, that's right. They can stay. Never mind. You can leave your binders. >> Our cow seating arrangement is going to be a little bit.