hi there and welcome to our new show common sense with Randy Gilbert this will be a show that we take a look at the issues that affect hennepin county in our area from different perspectives today I'm happy to have two commissioners that represent our area Commissioner Jan callison hello thanks for being here commissioner pleased to be here and Commissioner Jeff Johnson Jeff thank you for coming thanks for doing this a little background on both of you for our viewers what many of them don't know that we even have County Commissioners so you know jam before you were a county commissioner you were mayor of Minnetonka Celts member of Minnetonka planning Commissioner chair and a host of other things even before that with with the city of Minnetonka and some other issues around their soul so thank you for stepping up and being our commissioner I'm pleased to be to play that role to play that role may be you are you're my Commissioner as well so and I also want to point out that you will now be the chair person of the board this year which is a great honor so congratulations to you and Jeff you come to County Commissioner first you were the gubernatorial candidate last session and you were representative for 6 years 7 66 years yeah representing Plymouth and points west out around the lake for a while and iced right and you were attorney with cargill prior to the right that's right so fantastic also so that the viewers know you know district sticks with a true representatives basically all the lake city's plus Hopkins any Dinah Hopkins in udine and minnetonka northern third of Eden Prairie okay all a part of 16 cities and so it's a it's a big area Jeff you have a vast year you stretch basically west northwest all around Hennepin County starting at st. bonifacius going all the way up to 2 champion to champlin yeah essentially just the entire border of northwestern Hennepin County into Plymouth champ when Maple Grove that area it's a it's a big area it is it's a big County yeah it is it is what is the square mileage of of Hennepin County I hope you know the answer that um 470 now I have got yeah but its vast 25 cities yeah 1.2 million people so each of our districts are about 160,000 people so right and there are seven districts as we count Jeff is number seven there's one through seven yeah so well I thought we'd start off talking to show about your budget I know that in the last month your last few weeks we had a proposed end up in county budget that came out that was one point nine billion dollars of that about two hundred and well 300 300 thousand was operating budget in 1.6 million was was 1.6 million was operating budget 300,000 was a capital budget thought we'd start with the 1.6 million good billion thank you it was a big increase and I don't know which one of you wants to go first in 1.9 well 1.9 was a total right and yet 300,000 that was capital budget and 1.6 was the operating budget so I thought we'd start with the operating portion of the whole thing we had this operating budget it was a large increase in fact is 86 million dollar increase from you know 2014 where we were basically flat this year were having four point five percent increase Jan if you would start we have this big increase a 2.6 million what is what is driving this this larger increase and what drives the major portion of our budget well let me let me start with where we are in the budget process so that people understand so when you say we have a proposed 1.9 billion dollar budget that was proposed by the county administrator in this past week we set our maximum tax levy which is something that all local governments do so that's the amount of property taxes that were telling the state we would collect at the most right and over the course of the next six weeks we have the chance to make changes to the budget and make changes to the property to propose property tax levy so we could decrease the property tax levy when we set the final budget in December so we're still on the in the position of understanding the budget understanding what the administrators proposing but as I speak to UM folks and talk about the budget I point to a couple of things one is the increase in needs in hennepin county so in the human services area the staff has shown that between 2010 and 2014 our needs grew about forty-one percent and you would think as the recession needs it's just so the number of cases of people getting economic support people who are getting food support some people who are coming to the county for services and and people tend to associate that with the recession and so you would think well the needs are going down means better but we're seeing a shift so that there are more health care needs so Medicaid expansion where people come to the county to be qualified for health assistance as well as shifts in long-term care so the state now says the county has to qualify people for long-term care we used to do that through through private volunteer and nonprofit associations so there's that whole change we also are in the period of time when we're renegotiating labor contracts with our union employees and we have a heavily unionized workforce so we anticipate some cost-of-living adjustments so that's a factor as well and then there are some one-time expenses next year as a federal election so that's always more expensive we need new equipment so that's what I would point to in terms of what's going on as well as the fact that over the past several years we've really kept the property tax levy pretty low and so now we're seeing growing needs and probably the need to increase taxes in order to meet those needs Jeff may have a different explanation or viewpoint so 86 million dollar increase in the election equipment at you point out to is like 1.2 million for this year so you're saying most of this is the health and human service is driving the increase I would say it's increase in needs and then also the need to look at an employee salaries the adjustments will be making yeah i think what what everybody has to keep in mind is sometimes the spending increases are going to be greater than the actual property tax increase because only a portion of our budget comes from property taxes so this year i believe spending increases are considerably larger because we are getting some money in from both the state and federal government to cover some of the we had some new mandates this year but not all of them so sometimes that is we we make that complaint all the time at the local level that the state government federal government places mandates on us that then we have to tax our constituents for and we're seeing some of that in the area of health care in particular one of the one of the larger chunks of increased spending at least has to do with child protection and you know some of your viewers have probably seen a couple horror stories in last year that are just those things can't happen and it's one of the most basic functions of government is to protect children and so we're seeing an increase there which I think probably makes sense I believe however that the tax increase is is too large in fact I don't think it's necessary because I think even though we do have new expenses that we do have to pay for I don't think we have a choice when it comes to child protection and obviously the mandates we need new election equipment those things all do add up but there are other areas of the budget where I don't believe we need to be spending so you know my belief has always been that we probably spend too much as it is and we should be pairing back some of the other areas of spending in order to hold the line on property taxes and what would be one of these areas that you would like to pull back a good example would be what we call community works programs which is essentially it's it's just it's a transfer of tax dollars from one area the county to an area of the county not necessarily i was in the same place but an area where we want to see new economic development so we'll spend you know millions are believed tens of millions of dollars on community works in certain parts of the state usually in minneapolis to say we want to we want to revive this part of of the county it's you know it's a nice thing for a lot of people but i don't think it's necessary i'm not sure it's it's necessarily the proper role of government either so that would be one example okay you know with the budget janam we talked about is the county the right place for a lot of this work to be happening well i'm not sure if it's the right place it's the place the state has said the work should be happening so the system in minnesota and i think people often don't understand this is that we administer the state programs and and that's the system that the state had set when i was first elected i thought well the state probably does that because local governments better I mean I was on the you know taco City Council you know your local you provide better services now I suspect it may just be that it's cheaper so that the way it works when the county administers it for the state is the state sets the rules I like to say in a sports analogy state sets the rules we play the game but we build the buildings where people come we pay the employees who pay who offer those services we buy the computer systems so all of that goes on the property tax system we get some state aid I think that's really county program aid but it's not necessarily to really what we're spending and that's the sort of aid where the state says one year well the budgets a little tight you know we said we were going to give you 30 million I'm afraid it's only going to be 25 and it's really too bad that it's halfway through your fiscal year and you've already made your budget we just can't spend that money so you know it's a complicated system but it is a system we have which is that the county's administer most of these programs for the state of Minnesota in again in the same note I'm going probably deeply I need to do you believe it's government's role to be to be sponsoring these programs do you think there's better ways that we could be doing it or should it be through the state as Jan was saying and administered through the county it depends on the program I mean certainly there's a role for government to provide a safety net for the most vulnerable people in society children elderly people who are disabled so there's absolutely a role for that and and I i think that the system of the state at least partially funding and the county's administering probably makes sense because we're closer to the people then the state is the problem is as Jan pointed out there are times when you know the tab gets left we don't get to make the decisions but the tab gets left and we call those unfunded mandates and the biggest problem with them is they're almost always funded at the start and then once they're built into the system the funding starts to dissipate over time and and it adds up there's also something called maintenance of effort and the next time your legislators come on you might want to talk to them about that so in some cases the state requires that you cannot reduce the level of money you're spending so they have these maintenance of efforts it says even if you become more efficient or you know something changes you have to keep spending a certain amount of money so the state also has control in that sense i also would add that while the county administers these programs a lot of the services are delivered by nonprofits so we have an extensive number of nonprofits I think the nonprofit contracts maybe 700 some 700 or something we give money to right so we we don't fund them but we contract with them for services okay and it's probably one area and this is something i think jeff has worked on where we could be more deliberate about the outcomes we get from them where we could avoid duplication we can probably do more than we've done but much of the county's work is done through nonprofits that provide the services and again I think people don't understand that reality either so it's not county employees doing a lot of stuff oftentimes its other employees doing work supports like that so an example would be we may get money from the state for example to help people who are out of work find a job as I'm sent over simple shutting here because you know it could be a program like that most of the time we will use that money to pay a non-profit or in many cases several nonprofits to serve a certain number of clients and what Jan mentioned was outcomes and that you know that's something that I'm always hammering on is how do we measure whether those nonprofits for giving taxpayer dollars to are actually doing a good job or not and sometimes we measure well and other times we don't measure so well that in my in my opinion we shouldn't just measure with that example whether someone got a job or not we should mother measure whether they still have that job in a month three months or six months we have yeah it's improved a comprehensive and I still I think there's duplication of effort and sometimes I think we don't know what we want but we are better about collecting that data so we can make better decisions but there's still ways to go sure I mean 1.7 billion dollars tells you there's probably a way way to go well it also tells you there's a lot of need sure so you know one of the things that people probably don't realize we hear 1.9 in a total budget you know and we bring that down to 1.6 operating budget only 728 million of that is collected via property taxes a percent right so it comes as you know by other sources but of that 728 million dollars that's collected over half of that comes from your two districts and from from a person who learned that just this week it seems unbalanced how do you how do you feel about the fact that over half of that money comes from just two districts and the other five spend more than half of that money well I think that's the political reality of almost any unit of taxation so we are a community we are hennepin county we have a variety of needs we try and make good decisions we try and tax on the same principle throughout the county not like the taxing system is different in our 22 districts and so I think representing that district are trying to make sure that the money is spent well and that we know what we're getting forward and it would be terrific if it were a different system in terms of how much money comes out of my district and I think it's probably not even 50-50 between the two districts I suspect my district might might have a greater proportion yeah but it also is important that the whole county do well and you know they're always going to be disparities because there's more wealth outside of the city that property values are tend to be higher out here so that is that's not a surprise and the fact that we spend more in Minneapolis in the inner ring suburbs probably isn't a surprise either because there are certainly more needs there from the standpoint of human service programs however I do sometimes gives a little frustrated with the size of the disparity we just had a meeting a couple months ago to look at where the transportation plan is going forward over the next 10 or 15 years I don't remember maybe is 25 and just looking at the map the vast majority of transportation projects are going to be in the city and the inner ring separation hold that thought because we'll talk more about that after a break when we get to it I do want to ask this one question the wrap up this segment four-point-five percent increase that this year in proposed and last year was relatively flat but it was still an increase is this sustainable I mean percentages you say 4.5 and people go well it's only 4.5 but when you think about 1.9 billion dollars you know it's 86 million dollars in it'll escalate as we go forward these needs aren't going away is this sustainable going forward I don't think it is over time and I think yeah also I have to look at the fact that we have three levees so if you add in the the railroad levee and the the of the housing levy which is being helpful at this year railroad it always goes up a lot it's probably going to be closer to five percent those are much smaller levees sure and it certainly that level isn't and Jan mentioned that in the past few years I think we've been better in fact we were close to 0 1 year and held it flat another year below 1 year right and I think that was a big victory but I worried now that we're kind of falling back into where we may have been 10 15 years ago where it was four six eight percent every year hopefully we're not going to go because that's not sustainable over time and I would say it's too soon to ask that question because it's one year and we have I think over the past four years the average increase was zero point one nine percent so a good history of being being fiscally conservative we have more needs this year and well I think we need to address those needs and I'm certainly hopeful that as we go in the future we can bring the levy back back down but we judge the levy I think by the needs and by what's accomplished and that that i'm not saying we'll stay at 4.5 but it's certainly a year or it looks like a higher levy will be appropriate okay we're going to take a quick break here please I to back in just a few minutes lmc see is now on facebook be sure to LIKE or friend us so you can keep up with all the happenings at lmc see or to watch one of our latest videos welcome back in the first half of the segment we are talking about the budget with Hennepin County the second half of the show we're going to concentrate more on the light rail and this is a pretty i'm going to say controversial topic there's a lot of people that are ford a lot of people that are against it the money is rising quite a bit from when we started this project i'm even know how long it's been on the chalkboard ten years now it feels like that we more than 10 years i believe you know been talking about it and the money has gone up and we hear all the controversy with you know in minneapolis and where to routed through st. louis park but with all the controversy intel just recently that the dollar price has just kept increasing and we've had a little bit of a setback but right now they're estimating this project to be about 1.7 billion dollars just to build it to get it done and to get the trains rolling that's not talking about anything after that so i'm going to start off with the first question for you Jan 1.7 billion dollars on a the line why do you think it's worth it because of the number of people that will transport because of people who might not have other transit options because of the the environmental savings of mass transit over cars because of the job growth that we expect in the southwest part of hennepin county in eden prairie in minnetonka and because it makes us a competitive region and that benefits us all so when you say job growth do you feel that the light rail will bring more jobs in to head into the prairie in southwest area first it will serve the expected job growth so there is a large number of jobs expected in that region and we're going to build more roads so we can build a light rail system I think light rail also will attract employers in that area as well so we will do both but the principal driver i think is we envisioned it originally was and i think the reason why the chambers of commerce supported is because of the job growth in that part of the county all right Jeff same question well I don't think it's worth it and I've been a pretty vocal opponent of Southwest as I have been for bot know which is kind of the next in line for our viewers that bot know is what it's it's just another light rail line that goes essentially north from Minneapolis up through the brooklands and through a portion of maple or into maple grove and then probably stops there but and that one maybe even a little more expensive but for me I look at spending transportation dollars from the standpoint of how will this help people be mobile will it help people get from one place to the other in a more efficient way and I look at it from a cost-benefit analysis are there better ways you can spend the same amount of money to help people be mobile and and I just I think that there's a terrible cost benefit ratio on light rail because it takes very few people off the roads I mean any study you see proponents or opponents will say somewhere between two and four percent of the traffic gets off the road you're not really going to notice that much certainly during the busy times you're not going to notice that and when you compare that to the cost of 1.7 billion and I think it'll be a little more than that in the end but more importantly the annual operating subsidy which we never really talked about for for Southwest at least at the end or the beginning I can't remember whether goes down or up but if it's successful we're looking at about a 30 million dollar a year operating subsidy and how is that paid is that Met Council and the CBI T times I get paid right yeah that is a it's not it doesn't come from Hennepin County taxpayers on our property tax levy but it still comes from property tax essentially a bit more broadly over the metro area but nonetheless it's it's a great expense and especially as you're talking about adding more and more lines you know we'll be at one hundred million dollars a year just to subsidize these things once we have three or four lines in place and if I thought that it would free up traffic in a meaningful way I'd take a look at that but when I look at a much much much cheaper option of a beefed-up bus system which still provides the same benefit to people who need that I certainly would head that direction first so you mentioned the buses and my no just bring this back to you for a moment because you said the one thing that I mean I will make the comment that I believe when we live here in Minnesota most of us are environmental lesson and we care what study do you cite when you say the environmental impact of buses versus trains I mean why I didn't don't think I said buses certainly cars versus mass transit and it's simply the fact that you've got more people on a car you're taking or not a car but I can say a wagon that's the wrong word as well be yeah more people on a train as opposed to the number of cars and I mean when I take light rail if I weren't taking light rail I would be driving I mean you're removing cars from the road when you people are taking light rail unless they be biking or walking or doing something like that some of them will be taking the bus but buses also emit so you are improving emissions when you can get people onto mass transit okay so when do we expect to see the light rail completed are we still on the holding pattern with this right now well we're in this situation were in the next year we hope to get the full funding grant grant agreement approved one from the federal government and so on the latest word I heard would be a start an opening date of i'm going to say 2020 could be 20 20 but in the next four or five years if that happens in 2016 okay and for our viewers are there where you know this one point seven billion isn't bored completely by an open County fifty percent is from a federal grant but we had this conversation earlier that money from the state and federal goes up and down is that a firm fifty percent or would you expect that to be something less is that a dollar amount that equals fifty percent today but could be forty five percent when the project is done the best expectation right now is fifty percent of course the federal government can always so that ledge escape and if that occurs what happens if what occurs if the federal government comes down and says we're all any of you now forty percent to be continued going forward and who bears the difference pan uppan county pays ten percent right now the state pays ten percent and thirty percent is from that sale the CPIB stands for what counties transit improvement or entrants improvement okay and it's a sales tax on the metro area right I mean where do we pick up the difference well if that happens then we look at the project again I mean it's what we did when we saw project cost we're going to go too high we looked at the project again we made some hard decisions we brought the cost back down if the rules change we look at the project and we make hard decisions again if we have to but right now the indications are that there'd be a 50-percent federal grant federal match and that's what we're hoping to secure you know ready I suspect that the federal money will be there I'd be surprised if it wasn't there is some question about the state money though right now because they are a better there that's the one entity that really hasn't put forth a large chunk of their money or at least made the commitment for that and if that doesn't happen then that question arises because the the project doesn't get cheaper just because somebody's not going to pay and right the question becomes then to someone else pick up and we'd have to vote down that when I happen said I make the argument would make the argument to legislators from this area that if we go ahead and build this line and the state government does not make its match or it's it's some share and we have to find local sources all we've done is taxed our citizens higher whereas if the state of Minnesota puts in a ten percent share then we spread the burden of this line across the state and the state will reap the benefit of higher economic growth as well so it's appropriate for the state to share in the car it's all tax dollars well it is yes dollars and you know I always get worried about me that I tonight as a mayor I we struggle with that as well and people table the money comes in the county pays from like both still coming from the individuals and I think that argument would create an issue with greater minnesota about why are we paying for a light rail that will never run if you look at the flow of money into greater minnesota if you talk about my district in hairpin county talk about hennepin county in Greater Minnesota I think we're in Minnesota it gets a pretty good deal from the metro area so i'm not i'm not overly concerned about you're no fun on that statement so it gets built do you think it'll stay fifty percent being paid by you know the CTI be in future be sent by my counsel you foresee an urban county paying for more I don't have any basis for speculating yeah i don't know i mean the legislature i suppose could change that it's I I'm assuming it's up to them but in the end I mean Hennepin County taxpayers are paying a big chunk of both of those organizations anyway so you know the burden is on our constituents pretty heavily and I like to comment that roads are not free either I mean we maintained Road rebuild roads I forget what the st. Croix bridge is costing is that six hundred million dollars seven hundred million dollars I mean that's one bridge is that a mile I think it's two miles when it's all well we've it about two miles look into too much cheaper than train bridge yeah well I don't think it's cheaper than a train bridge the southwest line is fairly expensive because it has a lot of bridges and bridges are expensive they're expensive for roads and they're expensive for lightroom the difference though that i would say because obviously roads are not free and you have to build them and you have to maintain them the difference is everybody in the state of Minnesota relies upon roads even if you don't own a car you need roads for the ambulance to get to your house or the truck to bring groceries to the grocery store that you walk to wear as a very very small percentage rely upon a training a light rail train and so yes they both do cost money but I think there's a there's a difference again that comes back to the cost-benefit ratio and here's what I what I would add we had a board retreat last week talking about senior population the growth in the senior population Hennepin County one of the statistics that was shared is that I think this is right 25% of folks in hennepin county do not dry so these are kids but these are seniors these are p we're blind these are people with disabilities forty percent or twenty-five percent excuse me do not drive so what's the method for getting around buses buses light rail great options right so exactly well I want to thank both of you for being out here making it gone on with light rail but you know we'll talk more about this because we will have you on again I would probably think you know a couple shows down the line we can talk more about light rail and the other topics that are happening but I do want to thank you again urban counties a very important government entity to this area and the state and the people need to hear more about it so I appreciate you coming out take a little bit of your time talking about the budget talking about LTR I do want to remind our viewers that if Jan is your Commissioner of Jeff is your Commissioner they always want to hear from you if you go will have their webs their emails up here but you can go to the website google them and let them know your concerns either about to show or anything else that's happening in the the county so i'd like to thank you for joining us on common sense will see you the next time