[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> All right, I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. Good evening and welcome to the June 18th, 2026 meeting of the Minnetonka Planning Commission. The Commission generally generally meets twice a month, always on a Thursday. The schedule and tentative meeting agendas can be obtained by calling the Planning Division or by checking the city website at minnetonkamn.gov. The Commission holds public hearings on land use applications. For all land use applications, the city notifies property owners within at least 400 ft of the site and posts plans and information on minnetonkamn.gov. For some applications, the city also places signs on the properties and places notices in the Sun Sailor. From a specific process standpoint, the Commission makes recommendations to the City Council on rezonings, subdivisions, conditional use permits, and also amendments to the city's comprehensive guide plan, zoning ordinance, and subdivision regulations. We also make final decisions on site plans, signage requests, variance requests, and expansion permits, unless these requests are part of an application that must be heard by the city council. In that case, the commission makes recommendation and the city council makes a final decision. Anyone aggrieved by planning a final planning commission decision may appeal the decision to the city council. If you wish to appeal, you must submit a written request to city staff within 10 days of this meeting. From a broader standpoint, the city's comprehensive guide plan, zoning ordinance, and subdivision regulations are the city's best efforts to codify a balance between individual rights and community responsibilities. Individual rights are easy to understand. Community responsibilities are more subtle, but the idea is that we, as members of the community, agree to limit our individual rights for the common good of the group. The planning division, the planning commission, and the city council are charged with managing the sometimes difficult balancing act. We ask that you keep your this broader perspective in mind as we review tonight's applications. To make meetings more efficient in 2026, the city's boards and commissions have introduced a new process for public comments. If you wish to speak at tonight's public hearing, please fill out a public comment card available right near the staff podium. Pointing right there. Uh be sure to include your name and the topic you wish with that you wish to address. The cards will be collected before the public hearing items, and I will announce your name when it is your turn to speak. Again, welcome. Staff, please call the roll. >> Shoemaker? >> Here. >> Uh Banks is absent. Brink? >> Here. >> Johnson? >> Yeah. >> Minion? Absent. Shear? >> Here. >> Chairwoman? >> Here. There are five of us here tonight. Uh up next item number three approval of the agenda uh, and staff I believe there is a change memo? >> Uh, yes Chair Waterman we do have a change memo both associated with item 8A which is the Excel Energy line. The first thing is just an error in our uh, a copy paste error in our agenda. And then secondly we did receive um, some comments after publication of the report and so those are uh, attached for your um, viewing. Oh. And there was an addition to the resolution. Thank you Mr. Engelson. Again uh, the addition to the resolution Mr. Engelson will go over that during his presentation but that is to the Excel Energy line uh, project. >> Great. Thank you. Uh, recognizing the change memo may I have a motion to approve the agenda with the changes? >> I'll make a motion. >> Oh, motion Johnson second Brink. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> All right. Motion carries. Next up approval of minutes and these are the minutes from the May 28th, 2026 and June 4th, 2026 meetings. Commissioners any changes? May I have a motion to approve the minutes? >> I'll make a motion. >> Motion Brink. >> I'll second. >> Second Chair. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> All right. Motion carries. Next up item number five report from staff. >> Thank you again Chair and Commission. A couple of items to report from the June 8th City Council meeting. They reviewed two of the concept plans that you recently reviewed. First was the QuickTrip um, general comments I would say similar to the Planning Commission. First was there's already a gas station there. It's um, not the most attractive gas station uh, in town so a gas station and convenience store use may be appropriate. However, um, the quick trip is not the same as the Sinclair station and so concerned about size and scale relative to area residents. Also some conversation about impact naturally occurring affordable housing that is in that area. So we will as staff as we do with every concept plan, we will provide to QuickTrip some comments. We will meet with them and then they'll they'll decide what they want to do from there. Then they also they meaning the council also reviewed the Endeavor project which was that very large industrial warehouse project in Opus the location of Boston Scientific. I'm not sure if you were here at that meeting. Chair Waterman, you're looking quizzical. Um again very similar comments to the planning commission. The use and maintaining a variety of uses in Opus seems very reasonable in terms of just the the use itself, but concern about the existing topography, the grading impact that may happen on that site and wanting to make sure that anything that happens there kind of maintains that good balance of of green and site development that we have in Opus. So we'll see where that one goes. Your next meeting is July the 9th and then the last thing I will comment on is that it is Commissioner Waterman's last meeting with the commission this evening. And so like we like to do um and it feels like we've been doing it too much lately. >> [laughter] >> Um we're going to just look back if you will at Commissioner Waterman's time with us. Six years, six and a half kind of. Um a very strange time to begin on the commission. I think we had two meetings and then the world kind of shut down for the COVID pandemic and so kind of learning, if you will, to be a commissioner while we were um, online was a a different thing. But 558 applications, 137 meetings um, based on our average meeting time, that's about seven uh, work weeks that you've been uh, sitting behind the dais. So, we thank you for your service um, there. Really uh, variety of applications that you looked at. I tried to mix it up from our last um, time around, but I chose some big projects or interesting projects at least for staff uh, that you reviewed over your time. Uh, 2020 was Legacy Oaks. For those of you that are new to the commission, this is in the northwest corner of town. It was a 28 acre um, sheep farm. Uh, the large largest parcel left in the community and the townhomes were kind of the final piece of what was a really uh, interesting multi um, style. I mean, what am I trying to say, Drew? Different styles of housing. So, we had single family, twin homes, condos and then these townhomes. Um, the first owner-occupied townhomes that we've had built in the city for 25 some years. In 2021, it seems like we were talking about Dick's House of Sport at nearly every uh, meeting, but we finally got to a a good place and um, first of its kind and now um, this kind of prototype is being built elsewhere uh, in the United States. Ridgewood Ponds is off of uh, Sparrow Road and Ridgewood Road. It's a large parcel um, that had been looked at for development in the entire time that I had been here. Ron Clark uh developed that with 13 um Rubicon kind of villa style uh lots. Totally built out now. Oh, I skipped 2022 Momentum Vantage building, the first school building that had been constructed in the city for many, many decades. 2024 was the Sears Imported Autos, the the Sears mall, which is next door to the main um a dealership building. That is a project that's complete, kind of a a reinvestment in an old uh building in town. It looks really great if you've uh been by. It looks like a completely new structure. Though some of it is new. Um 2025 then, English Rose, uh the removal of and uh This was the concept plan uh came forward in in 2026, the removal of the Oak Knoll um elementary school and construction of these two 10 uh bedroom facilities for people who are um living with dementia. And then, the Hopkins Dome uh at the Hopkins High School. We have um that permit in for application, so you will see it uh inflated next fall. Um So then, just kind of speaking for staff and I think the community, um Chair Waterman, it's always been clear to us from your questions and your commentary that you really consider all sides of an issue. Sometimes you're still considering all sides even um when you're at the dais, which is what you as commissioners are are supposed to do. And even um when the commission's vote may be contrary to what or your vote may be contrary to what staff is recommending or applicants are requesting, it we always had a sense that you at least heard all sides and and were acting on the best um interest of the community given the narrow parameters that you really have to work under as a commission. So, we appreciate that. We appreciate you. And we hope that you will find um some relief to all of your busyness. >> [laughter] [snorts] >> I'll turn it back to you. >> Great. Thank you. Thank you so much for uh for all of that. I cannot believe those statistics. That is That is incredible. I mean, it it really feels like a blink of an eye. Um really an honor to serve and thank you so so much. I mean, I don't say it enough just how impressed I am and have become with city staff and how the city works uh both the planning department and the uh Miss Wishnak's department and economic. It's It's really fascinating. Just and we're so lucky as a city to have you uh here working with us, working for us. And then the other shout-outs I have to make are really to the citizens of Minnetonka. There've been a lot I mean, with all these meetings, there are There've been many topics that could have gone The meetings could have gone really sideways and people have been generally pretty professional and cool and calm-headed um which has been amazing. And then the third thing I was thinking about is I mean, my understanding is Minnetonka like a lot of what we benefit from now is because of all the foresight that people had so many years ago, especially around tree planting um and and zoning and just really that long-term thinking. So, obviously I'm preaching to the choir here, but that's the idea of what we need to keep up of kind of thinking thinking ahead, thinking long-term. Um and I could I could go on and on with uh some specific thoughts, but I think we're we're in great hands with the the new commissioners that we have and and the remaining commissioners. So, um sad to go, but uh think everything's in good hands. All right. Um sort of already moved on to item number six, reports from planning commissioners, but commissioners, anything else to report? Commissioner Johnson. >> Real briefly, um I would urge you all to look at the rezoning update the that's going on in part of the work group the community work group. Um, it is uh out on the web and it is amazing. It greatly simplifies and makes much more understandable to somebody who isn't a professional planner what's going on here. It is I would say a refinement, better organization, better use of language. Uh, but it also is going to create opportunities for property owners in the city that don't exist currently. There's some flexibility that it's building into the plan districts and into these flexible district, too. So, the goal is to better achieve the 2040 comp plan. Um, I read I was a very rainy boring day. I read the whole thing and I and I compared it to the current uh zoning ordinances. I think it will um it will create uh real opportunities in terms of setbacks. Um, one of the bigger changes is that in low-density residential, you can have two units on a lot in its draft form. But, um also it recognizes the uniqueness of each of our commercial nodes. And that I think is going to be um really fun to work with in the future because every little commercial node has its own personality. You know, I'm just thinking of where the Golden Nugget is. Um, they used to go to when I was a kid. All of these places have um you know, some uniqueness and this will help preserve that. So, take a look at it and have your friends and family look at it. Um, it's I think quite nice. I mean, I've dealt with codes for many years and this one is much more uh logical. And so, I like it. That's it. >> All right. Thank you. Commissioner Brigg. >> Yeah, I just like to piggyback a little bit on that. Thank you, Commissioner Johnson, for bringing that up cuz it's such a important uh topic and uh thing in front of the city here for us to go through. And I Maybe this is a question of staff, but what's the process on that? The timeline? I mean, for receiving comment, you know, at this point in time, you know, the uh review and the comments people have are pretty important. And you know, uh how long do people have to do that? What's the timeline? >> Uh uh Chair Waterman and commissioners, um the city has two work groups that have been working on this. The um community work group, which Commissioner Johnson is the planning commission's kind of representative to that group, and then a staff work group. And we have the kind of say the meat of the ordinance is online right now. There's a whole 'nother section that's more of the technical stuff like how big can your sign be? How much storm water do you need to have? All of of those more um detailed things that our consultant is still working through. We have a meeting with the city council at the end of July to present to them a full in community engagement um plan. Um and so that community engagement with different opportunities for specific engagement will um be approved at that time. We do encourage everyone to look at it right now and provide comments, but there will be actually in-person engagement opportunities. So, that will come out in the end of July. Our We anticipate that that will last through the fall with something coming to this body probably Thanksgiving time. That's all very general, but I think um there is a website or a webpage on minnetonkamatters.com called zoning ordinance. You can read kind of where we started and why we are here where we are. Um And we will we will post items about engagement opportunities when they become available. There will be a table like we had last year at a Summerfest. We called it well, I called it the zoning zone table. So staff can engage with folks there. >> Awesome. >> That's the next one. Yep. >> Other comments from commissioners? Commissioner Sure. >> Thank you, Chair. Um as part of the sustainability liaison, I went to the Capital Region Watershed District open house last week and with a couple of other cities in attendance. And if you haven't been, it's an absolutely gorgeous LEED certified building um with a lot of interactive ways of learning about how we can take care of our water. Um and figure out what watershed district you're in. So it's free. They're open. They've got some great hours. So if it's something you're interested in or even our local one, go ahead and visit and see what you can learn about our watershed district and how you can clean up our water. So thank you. >> Great. Thank you. All right. If nothing else, we'll move on to item number seven, the consent agenda. The consent agenda lets the commission act on routine items with a single motion. There is one item on tonight's consent agenda. Number 7A, expansion permit for an addition at 11215 Oak Ridge Lane West. Staff is staff is recommending adoption of the resolution approving the request. Before we act, I'll note that this public hearing this is a public hearing item placed on the consent agenda. I'll ask it whether any commissioner, applicant, or anyone from the public would like this item removed from the consent agenda so it could be heard separately as part of the non-consent agenda. So, I'll go ahead and open the public hearing. Commissioners, anyone want to remove this item, have a full discussion on it? No? Anyone from the public? Okay, seeing no one I will go ahead and close the public hearing. Uh hearing no requests, uh may I have a motion to approve the consent agenda item as presented? Motion Johnson. May I have a second? Second Shoemaker. Uh staff, will you please pull the commission? >> Shoemaker? >> Yes. >> Brink? >> Yes. >> Johnson? >> Yes. >> Share? >> Yes. >> Chair Waterman? >> Yes. All right, motion passes. That is a final decision right, of the Planning Commission. Um anyone aggrieved by this decision may appeal it to the City Council by submitting a written request to the city within the uh to the city staff within 10 days of tonight's meeting. Moving on to item number eight, non-consent agenda. Uh before we begin, I'd like to review the steps in the process and the public hearing procedure for the non-consent agenda items. Uh first the item will be announced and staff will report. The commission will then ask questions of staff. The applicant will then be invited to present and the commission may ask questions of the applicant. The public hearing will then be open so anyone present may comment. You filled out one of the comment cards over by the staff podium. After the hearing is closed, the commission will discuss the item and take action. Uh ch- Looks like we have one item on tonight's agenda, item 8A. This is items concerning Xcel Energy line 07 34 and I believe Mr. Ingleson, is this your item? >> I do. Thank you, Chair. So, our first item here, staff is recommending that the City Council adopts the resolution approving the request for the pole replacements along the existing 0782 Xcel Energy electrical line. Uh so, this request matches my most items I've had in one before. We have a lot. So, they're proposing to replace 136 poles along an existing line. So, these are all poles that are currently there. They're putting in new ones. Uh it requires a conditional use permit because there's 135 of those poles are over 60 ft in height. It requires a site plan review, a variance and expansion permit for two poles that are over 80 ft, one variance, one expansion permit. Uh there's eight poles that are in existing wetlands, and then also 25 poles that are within flood plains, so require alteration permits for both of those. Uh to the right of your screen is sort of an example. There's going to be wood poles and then also steel poles with the two different ones. So, these are examples of what they would look they'll look like when they're put out there. Uh so, it's a long stretch. I said 135 136 poles, and that's because it goes all the way from the border of Wayzata and Plymouth all the way down into Eden Prairie. So, it's a long stretch. The whole stretch is about 10 miles, 6 miles of which is in Minnetonka. Um it's a So, it goes through basically the middle part of the city. You'll see it here in red. Uh in blue over here is actually a project we had before, which I said this tied my most uh request I had. It was that project. So, uh this is back in 2023. Um they're Xcel came forward with a project with a bit smaller, only 62 poles they replaced at that one. Uh this line was on the west side of the city and the same request, and the city approved that request with conditions. So, the location for these poles, a lot of them are going to be in the same location as they currently are today or at least in a similar spot. Uh just for a number for you, 126 of the 136 poles are going to be within 20 ft of the existing pole. So, we're sort of in the general same area, but there are a few that are moved a bit. Uh and those are really for four different reasons. One is to improve um improve current and future pedestrian paths, improve driver visibility, limit underground utilities that are the limit issues with underground utilities, then also to accommodate utility line past standards that meet ones that Excel needs to meet for these specific lines. On your screen is one sort of good example that I I know pretty well cuz I go to Wilson I used to go to Wilson quite a bit, less now since children, but still here and here's a Minnetonka Drive, Wilson's over here. But as you come here, there's a pole existing that's on this corner and it sort of creates some visibility issues here for drivers. So working with Excel, that pole's been pushed back a bit. So it creates a bit better view shed when you're coming up to that area. So as an example of when some of these poles have moved a bit, it's usually for a a purpose, not just for um any other reason than just try to improve areas. So there's two that need one needs a variance, one needs an expansion permit. Of those ones, that's because they're over 80 ft in height. They'd be uh 86.3 and 83.5. So exceeding that requirement by a little bit over 4% around 8%. Uh those pole heights have been increased to meet those national electrical safety code standard clearance requirements. Uh and if you look in our community, we do have quite a few um that are over 80 ft. So it doesn't stand out quite a bit and when you're looking at those heights, I personally probably can't tell the difference between the 6 extra feet on an 80-ft pole. So visibility for people down at the ground level probably not going to be a a very large impact. Uh we have several again that are within flood plains and then also the wetlands. Uh but each pole, the impact they're having is very small. It's really because of the type of way they're putting in those poles with culverts uh that make them just a little bit wider than what's currently out there. So I got some numbers for you again, I like numbers. Uh it's 8.55 cubic yards of total fill for all of them. So all 25 that are in the flood plain. That's 0.3 cubic yards per pole. So we're we're talking about a very small amount of uh fill, and what the applicant will need to do then is to excavate within that same area to keep it at a net zero. So, we know additional fill in there, they're going to accommodate that by removing fill in other places, so it can the flood plains will maintain the same capacity. And then also in the wetland, uh there's a there's eight that are in wetlands currently, and their disturbances um just under 16 square feet. So, again, a very small area that's 2 square feet per pole, roughly. Um looking at So, we there's a condition of approval that requires that they purchase wetland bank credits at a 1:1 ratio for those um that very small amount of wetlands that are being impact impacted. So, there are some tree removals with this project. Um we worked with the applicant to find out what those were, and what we looked at for tree impacts were ones that would be regulated by city code. So, there's going to be a lot of brush that's removed, little saplings. We didn't really include those when we were looking at this. So, for regulated trees, there would be 44 trees that would be removed um along this entire line that goes through the whole city. Um these trees are scheduled to be removed because they're impeding either the attempt to remove that pole. So, you can see here's a good example of that. Pole, there's trees all around it. These trees will have to be removed to even access the pole there for removal. And also some trees are being removed to um prevent super uh issues in the future. So, uh this one here isn't by the pole, but it's by a line here that uh is growing into the wires. So, looking to sort of solve those two issues. Um Ms. Thomas talked about a condition being added. There's a condition that added to that uh to the resolution that talks about adding some more trees and small shrubs along certain areas. Uh not all of them, but ones that maybe are already screening some commercial areas or uh institutional or public utility areas. So, that was added as a condition of approval to the report. And then there's a lot of notices that went out for this, thinking about a project that spans nearly the entire city. So, we had 551 area property owners noticed on this project. So, they got them postcard from the city and then also one from Xcel earlier. And then we also put this project on the Minnetonka Matters webpage. We talked a lot of our Oh, and it was part of that we did get one comment that was in your change memo from someone who submitted some comments after the report was written, but still wanted to get those to you to view before this meeting. So, that was the change memo part that we had. And then there was uh multiple agencies that we spoke to about this project going through. So, Three Rivers Park District, there's some areas that are near their trails. Uh watershed districts, um Hennepin County, and then also Minnesota Department of Transportation. Uh all of those agencies were typically pointed to Xcel, directed to the directly to their project manager to speak with them with issues that they maybe would have. We did get one comment from uh MnDOT, but those were about poles that are in the city of Wayzata. So, uh they're out of our jurisdiction, but we still included that in the packet in case you saw those. So, I bring it all the way back to our recommendation. So, staff is recommending the City Council adopts the resolution approving the request for the pole. Uh oh, this is just for just for um replacements, no additions. Sorry about that typo. Uh for replacements along the existing uh Xcel Energy line. Uh really for four reasons. First, it meets the conditional use permit and site plan review standards. They're outlined in city code. Um the variance and expansion permit, we're recommending approval for those as they are reasonable requests and will not alter the neighborhood character. Uh and then also recommending approval of the flood plain and wetland alteration permits as those would have a minimal impact and would maintain that um net zero fill. Uh tonight for a recommendation, this will have to go to City Council. So, tonight we're just looking at a recommendation and that requires four votes from the Planning Commission. With that, I turn it back over to the chair and commission for questions. >> Great, thanks, Drew. All right, commissioners, any questions for staff? Commissioner Brink. >> Um yes, I had got as I was going through the report, a few questions came to my to my mind that might be better addressed by the applicant, but I don't know if the applicant is here tonight. Um so anyway, um I maybe I just have a few more questions on the public process. It It does sound like there's been quite a bit of public process done to date, whether that's through XL leadership or through through the city. And you know, as you point out, there's lots of stakeholders here. There's many property owners. There's um you know, the watershed, Three Rivers, um MnDOT. Um Hennepin County. We could go on and on. Um but it it sounds too like there's there's great opportunities here. Um you talked about future infrastructure improvements, you know, maybe trails along city streets that could be looked at, you know, with where the poles are getting relocated. Um I'm sure restoration is a is a is a big issue here, too. And and I so I guess continuing the public process, um how does that roll out in your as far as you know, once construction starts? I mean, or is is this going to be run through XL or will the city kind of be taking the lead on this as far as communicating to the public? >> Uh sure, Commissioner Brink and Chairwoman. So, I can talk we talked first about how they've done initially before this even came here tonight. Yeah, there's been a lot of communication with the public. There's been lots of agencies that have reached out to the city. So, there's been a lot of communication between us and the public and other agencies and the public. So, I will let the applicant to talk about any of those sort of communications that they've had. And then moving forward, it's it's an XL project, so they'll be the main point of contact for that for this project. We would want them to be the one who takes initial phone calls. So, as part of this, we always create a construction management plan that they have to construction management agreement that they fill out and then we post it on our website so that if there are issues coming up, they can someone can call directly to Xcel to get that fixed faster than if they call me as I would not be able to go up on a pole and fix that very quickly. So, um they'll be the main point of point of contact for that. They'll still be working with the city on several different things as far as with um roads to make sure they're safe and um I know there's some talk about there'll be some places where they'll need to be um limited to one lane instead of two to make sure they can do the work there. So, the city will be a part of it again, still a part of that, but they will be the main point of contact. >> Commissioner Sherman, again? >> Um in the construction schedule, I know it was in the report, but I can't remember. Was that uh they're going to get started yet this year? And uh do you know are they going to start like on one end, the south end, and work their way north? Or how will that go? >> There's been a little bit of um uh Commissioner um Brinker and then Sherman Waterman. Uh there's been a bit of change from that since when they originally submitted. Uh this project got pushed back a few times. So, that's going to be uh what we'll be requiring is a new project schedule as part of that. That one that was in the packet probably a bit old. Uh I think that'd be a good question for the applicant tonight to hear what their sort of thoughts are on that from scheduling. >> Thank you. >> Other questions for staff? Okay. Um at this time, I will uh invite the applicant up to uh make a presentation and offer any comments. And welcome. If you could just give us your name and address for the record. >> Uh Chris Bergman, principal siting siting and land rights agent for Xcel Energy. Um I'll say thank you Drew for your staff and your report. Um it's incredibly accurate. I don't know if there's much I can add to that. Um other than, you know, the poles have been there since the 1960s. Um they're end of life. So, we're going to put new poles, new conductors, new new everything in there. So, um it will allow us to increase the load too as there's, you know more infrastructure put in the city of Minnetonka as well. So not changing the voltage but obviously you got bigger wires going through there. You can you can you're not going to get that drop electricity as you add load to it. So As far as the schedule Commissioner Brinker brought up the current schedule now is starting in April 24th of 2027. That would be matting installation that will start at the south end. So essentially we're going to go from the south end on Highway 62 all the way north. Our start basically our project ends at McGinty Road and East Benton Lane and matting removal will be done February of 2028. So that's kind of the duration of the project. At that point then we'll go into the restoration. And as we did on the last project if something comes up Drew absolutely knows how to get a hold of me as does Phil Hanson and now AJ knows where to find me as well. So I think we had one issue last time where there was a meter for one of the city of Minnetonka lights that you had a contractor only they can work on them. And this coordination they finally got that meter moved but I think it took about a year and a half to do it. So Yeah, that's pretty much all I know. Well, not all I know but all I have to add to what to what Drew said in the first place. So Questions? >> Thank you. Commissioners any questions for the applicant? Commissioner Brinker looks like you have >> Yeah, [laughter] um Yeah, I'm just thinking back to the photo that was just shown a little bit ago of the replacement of poles in the wetland. Um Um you were I'm thinking more access and restoration there. Do you build like temporary roads out into the wetland to get to the pole? Or >> Yep, so >> that work and then you have to get through private property to get there? >> So for those um I think we're going to have to go through some private have to go back and look at the access maps. What we do is yeah, we build construction roads that are out of construction matting, which are these 14 by 7 um as essentially rubber mats. They're They're about this thick. They're super heavy. So, you build the roads across the wetland. What that does is reduces the impact from the construction. You're not going to get the rutting in there. If you have to bring, you know, you're bringing heavy equipment out there to, you know, dig a hole, set a culvert, set the pole, backfill it with the rock. So, >> Yeah. >> Um the purpose of the culvert obviously is to create that create the stabilized base where the old one, you know, you directly embed it. Anytime things move, they freeze and they unfreeze and they thaw and you know, things start to move around. So, the culverts what they do is they actually going to stabilize the ground. So, that's the that's the reason that we add them um when we do work in wetlands these days. >> Okay. One other question, thank you. [laughter] Um So, these poles do these do these support just strictly XL infrastructure or are there other utilities that use the poles as well? >> I can guarantee you there's going to be other utilities on there as well. There's probably going to be cable on there as well. I think there's I think there's there's existing facilities on there. >> So, I guess where I'm going with that, I'm assuming during construction there there may be periodic disruptions in service to residents. >> Yeah, there shouldn't be. This is This is transmission. This isn't distribution. If If there's going to be a planned outage for anyone, they'll be notified. >> Okay, thank you. Okay, looks like no other questions. >> Okay. >> Um might have you back. >> Fair enough. We'll be back here. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it. >> All right. Uh next I will go ahead and open up the public hearing. I don't have any public comment cards submitted for this item. I know it's very busy in here, but if anyone wants to speak on this. Okay. Seeing none, I will go ahead and close the public hearing. Um back to the commission for discussion. Commissioners, what are our What are our thoughts on this? Any further questions or writing the comments? Commissioner Brink. >> Uh maybe just one more question for staff. It This sounds similar to something similar project that was done in 2023. So, I guess from staff's perspective, is there anything significantly different about this that we should concerned about and thoughts on how 2023 went? I mean, were there any concerns with that? I mean, as we move forward with this or do we feel, you know, pretty good with this based on what happened, you know, 3 years ago? >> Sure. Commissioner Brink and Chair Waterman. Uh this is very, very similar to the one we did a few years ago. It's just a lot more poles. So, now I think we I think it went really well, the previous project. We know our communication lines with XL Two Lines. I didn't mean to do that pun there, but yes, we have good communication lines with XL. So, as things come up, which things will come up possibly with a project of this size, but we know how to work through them. So, we feel confident about it. >> Thank you. >> I actually just have one question just in terms of recognizing the change memo we had with some comments about potential negative impact to any particular residents, I mean, what is the best course of action for someone to to deal with if if there are adverse consequences? >> Absolutely. So, um if there's something immediate, obviously call XL, get them figured out right away. Um we had again, we just had the one comment. A lot of that was with things they're working with XL, um less probably with this project as a whole. So, again, a project this size, we didn't get any phone calls. I think XL's done a good job of reaching out to people individually. So, if they do have something that's uh concerns about them from a we're looking from this as staff from more of a public view, uh less from a private, but if someone who's along this line has an issue or concern, I would recommend them to reach get reach out to XL to talk about this before they start going in '27 so they can get those figured out earlier rather than later with private issues. >> Okay, thank you. Uh commissioners, any comments or if not, if someone would like to make a motion. >> Sure. >> Okay, Commissioner Johnson, if you want to make a motion. >> a motion that the Planning Commission recommend that the City Council adopt the resolution approving the request for the pole additions and replacements along the line and subject to the conditions which are many in the draft resolution. >> Thank you, motion Johnson. Can I have a second? >> Second. >> Second, Shoemaker. Uh staff, please poll the commission. >> Shoemaker? >> Yes, approve. >> Brink? >> Yes. >> Johnson? >> Yes. >> Sure? >> Yes. >> Chair Waterman? >> Yes, motion carries. And that is a recommendation to the City Council which will be heard on July 13th. >> 13th, correct. >> Okay. Great. Uh moving on to item number nine, other business. Um this section is reserved for items that do not require formal Planning Commission action. We have one item tonight, item number eight uh 9A, a discussion regarding drive-thru uses. Um I believe staff is just seeking commission's input, no formal action required. Uh no public hearing on this. Um Ms. Thomas, this I believe is your item. >> Uh Chair Waterman, I'm going to start and then I will hand it off to our sustainability uh coordinator, Ali Sutherland, who's with us uh this evening. I'm not sure that Ali has been at a Planning Commission meeting before, but uh uh Ms. Sutherland joined us uh about a year and a half ago um to take on our sustainability role. So, as you said this evening, you're being asked to um kind of discuss, I would say provide a general recommendation uh on a matter other than an application, which is kind of a a different uh for for this body. As I outlined in your written staff report, during review of some recent applications, I think most notably the Seven Brew Drive-Thru application that came through a few months ago, the City Council really began to consider whether drive-thru uses align with our goals for sustainability and resilience in our community. And so, they requested two things. First, that staff do some research and report on greenhouse gas emissions from vehicle idling specifically at drive-thru establishments. And then, that the commissions just discuss whether drive-thrus should be subject to additional city regulations. So, this evening, as I mentioned, Ms. Sutherland and I are going to tag-team this presentation. She's going to give you some background on these things. I won't outline them all. And then, I'm going to go over what really isn't the Planning Commission's purview. So, again, Ali's going to talk about what the Sustainability Commission already has discussed. >> Thank you, Ms. Thomas. Good evening, Commission. Ali Sutherland, Sustainability Coordinator. I'm also the staff liaison to the Sustainability Commission, which is why I'm here speaking tonight. Um So, Ms. Thomas did a great job at kind of giving an overview of why we're talking about this and why it's top of mind for the City Council and the Sustainability Commission. So, I'll be giving a very short version of what I presented to the Sustainability Commission. I'll also be referring to the report. It was an attachment in your packet tonight, and that report was a research report that I had completed and had provided to the Sustainability Commission on May 18th, I believe the date was, at our last commission meeting. So, if you want to go into more details, you are welcome to look at that report. Um again, I'll just be giving an overview of that. But, uh I'll first talk about the climate action and adaptation plan and why this topic is important and again top of mind for our leadership. Then, um I'll talk about the community-wide greenhouse gas emissions in our city just as a whole, so we can kind of ground ourselves in what those um emissions are coming from. Then, we'll talk about tailpipe emissions or vehicle emissions and then get more into what idling is. And then lastly, we'll get to really the root of the conversation, uh the drive-thru idling. But, we'll start kind of from the top and then get uh get to the drive-thru. So, the climate action and adaptation plan, some of you may have been here when we did the community engagement process. Um I would say this is a recent highlight, so it was created in 2024, approved by council at that time, um and it follows decades of environmental stewardship that the city has been um really a leader in. And so, in 2024, uh my colleagues here, Drew >> [laughter] >> Engelson, um and others helped to lead this community engagement process. I started here um about a year and a half ago, so I came in after this process was completed. Um but, it was an extensive process. I through my research, I've found that this is actually the, if not one of, um one of the most ambitious climate action and adaptation plans within Minnesota. So, our city's very proud of it. Um and then just to kind of reiterate that it it does reflect the community's deep commitment to climate action through the engagement process. And um it's one of the most ambitious for the goals it sets. So, um the plan aims to reduce community-wide emissions by 63% by 2030 from 2018 levels and it also strives to meet net zero emissions by 2050. So that's really what makes it the most ambitious and I did pull out some screenshots. So because it's a community-wide plan and the plan actually showcases how city-wide operations account for 2% of community-wide greenhouse gas emissions. It's really important to get all sectors on board. So um others were very thoughtful in creating these checklists to get homeowners involved, other you know, just really any resident involved, businesses involved and then there's also a section of how the city can be involved. So if you're ever interested, I can certainly provide you a copy of the report. Um so that's kind of again why this is you know, of importance to the sustainability commission and the city council and we also have this inventory that tracks our greenhouse gas emissions and the city has actually been tracking this since 2007 and we recently at the beginning of this year received 2024 greenhouse gas data. So that is the most recent data that we have available. You can go to that website. to search Minnetonka through a drop-down but it's an interactive website. I believe they use Tableau so you can actually kind of manipulate the data if you're interested in that but I was able to play with some of those numbers and I found that since 2024 our emissions have decreased by 28% from the 2018 levels which helps us to achieve 44% of the progress that we need to achieve by 2030. So we can kind of understand where we're at with that goal and it's actually a pace just shy of 3.5% of staying on track to that 2030 goal. So I was really impressed to see how close we actually are staying on track because others such as the state are really having a tough time at staying on track. So, I was proud of that. Um and then in the staff report, uh the left figure is actually figure one and it breaks down our community-wide greenhouse gas emissions by um the main sectors. So, travel represent This is in 2024's uh snapshot of that time frame. So, in 2024, four Sorry, 49% of our emissions were travel. So, that actually made up the largest section of our greenhouse gas emissions for the first time actually since 2007 at least. Um the next was building energy use at 48% and we're seeing uh travel become a larger portion because Xcel Energy is who supplies our electricity in Minnetonka and they are committed to carbon-free um electricity, providing that by 2040 and they are on track to meeting those goals actually like maybe sooner, more like 2035 they say. So, we're going to see the building energy section um greenhouse gas emissions decrease over time and which will likely end up resulting in the travel emissions continuing to increase proportionately. And then lastly, 3% of our greenhouse gas emissions within the city are 3%. And because of this, we often are prioritizing our work uh to decrease emissions within the travel and building energy category. However, we do still focus on waste as well. Um and then figure two on the right-hand side, that represents sub-activities. So, this was a um kind of a exercise I did for this report to figure out, "Okay, what What do um What are the activities that actually fall into these three large categories?" And uh LHB, the consultant that runs the regional indicators initiative that tracks our emissions, was able to provide this uh to us for the first time. Uh we did not have this information when we created the climate action and adaptation plan, but uh you can see the different sections break down by color. So, the 48% represents transportation emissions, and that includes federal highways uh interstate emissions, local roads, county roads, and state highways. So, any travel that's occurring on that. Um and something to note that's interesting is this accounts for vehicles that actually originate from their um route outside of the city, pass through the city, and end outside of the city, which is pretty challenging for the city. We don't really have much autonomy over those. Um so, our our focus is really going to be on trips that start in Minnetonka, whether it's a um a resident or an employee, for example. Just give you some background on that. Um the 48% building energy use then breaks down to these other sub um activities. So, it's residential uh gas, which is your home heating typically, your home heating fuels, uh commercial electric um electricity as well, and then we also have commercial gas, and then uh residential electricity. So, those are the breakdowns there. And then lastly, that 3% waste. Um and then we organized the subcategory list. So, figure three was taking figure two and then just sorting that to see which of the sub activities um account for the largest proportion of community-wide and the ones highlighted are the largest. So, we got federal highway and interstate accounts for the greatest proportion of these sub activities followed by residential gas, and then commercial electricity um usage. So, the report uh then talks about how we can as a community, as um a city, begin to focus and prioritize our work within these sections to in hopes to decrease them. So, I won't go into that any further, but if you're interested in that, uh that was information given to the Sustainability Commission in hopes that it can help inform my work plan and their work plan going forward. And then to get to um the, you know, request from City Council, we started talking about tailpipe emissions in the report, and this is a little bit farther back, um but just to remind the Commission, so the City Council requested that staff research greenhouse gas impacts of vehicle idling at drive-thrus. They then asked the Sustainability Commission to provide input on whether drive-thrus have a significant effect on greenhouse gas emissions, and then that's in an effort to understand if and how we should regulate them. Um so, this next section of the the PowerPoint and the report talked about just vehicle idling in general, like what that is, and then we started focusing on uh the idling occurring at drive-thrus. So, this slide talks about tailpipe emissions. Again, it's just another way to reference that is vehicle emissions. Um it These are gaseous and solid pollutants. So, for example, CO2, nitrogen oxide, and particulate matter that is released into the atmosphere from a vehicle's exhaust system through fuel combustion. Um just wanted to note that these are actually regulated by the MPCA and the federal government. In new vehicles, you see those standards popping up and changing over time. Um tailpipe emissions are produced when a vehicle is either driving or idling, and then they vary based on the vehicle's make and model, age, mileage, fuel type, and weather conditions. So, it's really going to vary based on the the vehicle itself at the rate that it is um polluting. And then we think of idling emissions. Idling specifically is occurring when an engine is running while um the vehicle is stationary, not in motion. And there's a lot of different types of idling. Um so, drivers of the following types of vehicles idle. Uh it could be a passenger vehicle, which I think is the first thing that comes to mind when we talk about this topic, but there's actually several others. So, working construction vehicles idle, uh emergency vehicles idle, public buses idle, school buses idle. And then reasons for idling can actually be essential or non-essential. It just really depends on who the driver is and what they're driving. So, some examples could be if you're stopped in traffic, um if you're warming a vehicle, picking someone up, whether you're um you know, a ride-hailing service or you're picking up a friend, delivering goods, doing construction or commercial work, uh passing time in a parking lot just over a lunch break, at an intersection or a bus stop, at a drive-thru as we're talking about tonight. Curbside pickup is also um in some ways related but different, and then of course there's more, but these are the ones that I was seeing um or really a focus within this research topic for other people looking at this. Um and then also something to note is that the idling emissions were actually captured in that city's greenhouse gas emissions data within the traveling section, but after talking to the consultants, they're not able to parse that out. Um so, we know it's there, and it's based on the vehicle efficiency data that they're able to um use to calculate that. They just can't separate it out. And so, for that reason, it required staff to kind of look into how we can begin estimating this for Minnetonka because uh our consultants can't do it for us. >> [laughter] >> Um so, again, the tailpipe emissions and idling is going to vary based on the the vehicle's make and model, Uh age, mileage, fuel type, and weather conditions. And so, this figure seven Um let me grab my notes here. Um So, it shows the fuel consumption of gasoline and vehicle power powered vehicles when idling. So, if you look at kind of that bottom um axis right here, you're looking at idling fuel use. And we can uh assume that, you know, the the um Let's see, what does it say? The higher the fuel consumption, the greater the vehicle's pollution rate. So, in this case, we can also assume that the is going to pollute the least in this case. Um and then we can also looking at this graph assume that the transit bus is going to pollute them all. So, anything in yellow in this graph is using diesel fuel. And then anything in green in this gas is using gasoline. But, it's actually a fairly interesting graph that helped us with some additional calculations. So, we used that information um to then estimate idling um impacts within Minnetonka. And uh let's see, I already mentioned the first point. So, to estimate these the drive-thru idling impacts, we had to use the best available data because again the consultants weren't able to parse it out. We also have to also acknowledge that in reality these variables are going to differ based on the actual vehicles that are idling. But, that being said, we were able to use that chart and other data to kind of get some estimates. So, this was the assumptions list, if you will, that was included in the report. I wanted to call out that I thought the um planning commission would be particularly interested in these assumptions. So, um Ms. Thomas helped me figure out that um planning division has really great data available um through the Institute of Transportation Engineers. They have a trip generation manual that I've been told the planning commission is probably more familiar with than I am. Um, but they estimate the average vehicles that, um, are going to visit these businesses based on business type, and it became pretty clear to me that we needed to break it out by business type so we could get a good sense of how many people are actually visiting, and you can see, you know, this is in order of least to most. Bank Banks are the least, um, attended daily. Um, yeah, these are Yeah, these are daily averages. Pharmacy is next, followed by coffee shops and restaurants. So, this is all from that, uh, Institute of Transportation Engineers. And again, these are averages, but it's taking into account our suburban community. So, using all that data, we were then able to estimate the average annual greenhouse gas emissions. First, looking at how much, um, the how how much you would have emitted at one, um, business per year. So, we broke that down, and this is in metric tons of CO2 per year. Then, we also figured out that there's 27 drive-thrus existing in Minnetonka as of today, and we got this number. So, 2,489 metric tons of CO2 is emitted per year at our, um, Minnetonka drive-thrus. Again, an estimate, but that helps us to estimate that roughly less than 1%. So, 0.44% of our community-wide gas greenhouse gas emissions are a result of idling at drive-thrus. And then, if we wanted to look at it into kind of like a sub category or sub-activity of that transportation emission, again, it's still less than 1% of that transportation pie wedge, if you will. Um, and then, for comparison, we had looked at waste earlier, and that was 3% of our emissions, and that represented the 13% or sorry, 13,708 sorry, 28 metric tons of CO2 just to kind of give some relation there to that number. So, I think we have one more slide here kind of just showcasing again those sub-activities and where drive-thrus would fall on this list. And I showed this to the commission so that we can again continue to prioritize where is our you know, where should our focus be? However, noting that yes, drive-thrus do still have emissions impacts and there's stars here because in some ways this actually does exist within all of these transportation related emissions. It's not a separate sub-activity. But it just kind of goes to show that's really how much it represents within our community. So, last slide here. Taking all that into account, obviously it was a lot of data for the commission to process and probably the most data-intensive report that they've reviewed. But they they had a lot of you know, thoughts on the matter. So, first off, they thought that you know, city council can consider requiring new drive-thrus to include design features and operational information in their development applications to reduce idling. So, this is this could be either requiring with a development application, it could be through education, you know, there's different options that the council could take here. But these are some examples of those requirements that could be included for new applications coming in. So, some could be posting anti-idling signage to encourage drivers to shut off their engines during long wait times, using renewable energy to offset emissions, provide technology that expedites ordering such as ordering ahead tools, providing evidence of efficient drive-through service times, creating multiple drive-through lanes for faster service times, creating fewer stops along the drive-through, um offering pedestrian walk-up windows or indoor service area options, and then connecting to nearby trails and transit stops. And uh I just wanted to note that these bullet points and options were thought of purely for the fact that these actions would reduce idling. They don't necessarily take into account the city's other priorities and other impacts. So, I'm sure the planning commission might look at some of these and say that that would not work with our goals as a planning commission, which is purely that's completely valid. The reason for these is just to say these are ways that a new drive-through coming in could consider reducing or mitigating um for their potential idling impacts. So, with that, that's all I have. Um Ms. Thomas, do you have any other thoughts or questions that I'll offer? >> Maybe we can just stop that. >> Yeah. >> Um as you can probably tell, Ms. Sutherland is the science and I am the art in this [laughter] presentation. So, do you have any questions about that, you know, hard data that she presented? >> Commissioners, any questions? Commissioner Bring? >> Well, not a question, just a comment. I just want to say I want to thank you and I appreciate all the effort that went through um trying to figure out, you know, uh how much COT comes from idling cuz it didn't sound like there was really a good road map out there to follow that you really had to do a lot of exhaustive data collection and using ITE numbers and all that. And um I also just thank you for it first before you got into that, just painting the big picture of how much greenhouse gases, you know, have been reduced in the city over the last 20 years. It's always good to have the I think the 10,000-ft view first before we dive into the details. So, I just want to say thank you for putting all this together. >> Yeah, thank you. >> All right, now the questions. >> All right, I will um move along um to again the the more art part of of this. So, um when I think and I think when most people think of drive-thrus, you think of fast-food um restaurants. And uh in planning school, we learned that the first fast-food restaurant to acknowledged fast-food restaurant 1921, Wichita, Kansas, uh White Castle, um was the first fast-food restaurant and very much intertwined um with driving. Um the growth of fast-food uh restaurants really reflected and followed the timeline of um mass production of automobiles and uh followed that kind of assembly line um production. So, um drive-thrus and automobiles uh fast-food restaurants um through the ages. And as consumers' demand for convenience increased, the services that could be provided through drive-thrus or service providers saw options to do that. So, we don't have just fast-food restaurants anymore. We have the coffee shops, we have banks, uh we have pharmacies. As uh Ms. Sutherland noted, we have 28 um drive-thrus currently in the city of Minot. From uh urban or even a suburban design perspective, it's very easy um for most uh planners and many people to look to kind of the disadvantages or the negatives of drive-thrus. They really distract from pedestrian-oriented design. Um they can compromise pedestrian safety. They create real and even perceived nuisance conditions with noise and light and trash where there may not have been trash before. But as the planners looked at kind of planning literature and things that other communities are looking at, they also wanted to know this literature notes that there are some benefits to drive-throughs that consumers see. Um most notably a lot of conversation about how drive-throughs um were invaluable during the pandemic. Hopefully you won't have to go through something like that again, but for businesses and for consumers they offered a way to to receive goods and service. Um again, convenient options to residents and visitors of Minnetonka keeps us competitive with other cities in similar geographic positions. They also the literature talks about delivering essential services to people with disabilities, people who may have difficulty um getting in and out of a car they need to pick up pick up a prescription medication. Um a drive-through does offer that option for them. So understanding that there certainly are positives and negatives. Um we also recognized and I think the council recognized that the city has the opportunity right now through our zoning ordinance update to look at how we regulate drive-throughs and see if we want to change how we regulate those. And we've laid out some options for the planning commission and we'll lay those out for the council too. But before I jump into those options I need to give you a a peek at how we regulate currently and what um the current zoning districts and um what the future zoning districts may look like and Commissioner Johnson already alluded to those. So for some of you this is a refresher, for some of you, this might be new information, but the city has three in our current zoning ordinance. We have three commercial, or what I would call semi-commercial zoning districts. And these are very traditional. If you opened up um the zoning ordinance for most other communities around here, you would see B2, B3, B1. I don't know if anybody else has PID. Um but um we're we're unique here. But these are um just commercial districts. They allow drive-throughs by conditional use permit in each of these districts. So, someone can't just build a drive-through. They have to come to this body. They have to meet certain standards. They have to get approval from the council. But there is a path forward for um drive-throughs in each of these districts. Um these traditional zoning districts um ensure that standards are consistently applied to all properties with that zoning classification. And what that means is a coffee shop in and maybe a better example I just thought of is um the Dairy Queen in Minnetonka Mills is regulated the same way that the Dairy Queen in Seven Hi, um which is uh Highway 7 and um 101. They have the same regulations. They look different cuz they were built at different times, but they do have the same regulations. Even though those areas have very different built environments, and the place just feels different. The draft ordinance, this is a sneak peek, is moving away from what we call the one-size-fits-all um type zoning, and it really reintroduces village centers. And this is a concept that was introduced in our our plans a few years ago and taking that um village center concept and moving it over into the zoning districts. So, we have 13 proposed village centers. These are pockets of commerce. They're some of them are big, some of them are small, but they all have service and retail um components. Again, they have a different um if you look down this list, I won't read through all of these, but hopefully you can get a sense of where all of these are. They have different senses of place. They have different built environments. And predominantly that's based on the roadways that intersect or run through these areas. And it's based on the time period in which first development occurred. So, again, um Minnetonka Mills very different on a county road than uh 7 Hi, which is also on a county road, but developed, you know, 60 years uh later if not more. Um the intent of this is to have different regulations in each of these, different setback requirements, different height restrictions, um different What am I missing, Mr. Ingvalson? Tho- Those types of things. Um [laughter and clears throat] So, kind of with that background, planning has identified four options, and you may think of others, but um the first option for regulating drive-throughs would be to allow, again, as conditionally permitted uses, new drive-throughs in all village centers. So, that's maintaining the status quo, what we what we do right now. The second option would be to allow drive-throughs only in certain village centers. And what staff was thinking is drive-throughs, again, by conditional use permit in those village centers that we already know are more auto-oriented. So, 101 and 7, um maybe our Cedar Lake Road and uh Hopkins Crossroads. Um those Carlson Center, you know, those more auto-oriented. The third is to allow new drive-thrus in certain village centers, the same as number two, but requiring sustainability features. Um we won't get into where we're proposing a whole section on sustainability in the new ordinance. Um but this specifically talks about or what we were thinking about is allowing drive-thrus with a CUP, but there has to be some type of offsetting um contribution um to the community. Um some offsetting design elements. So, not just being solar-ready, they have to have solar panels uh on you have to have a small-scale wind energy system. You have to have geothermal something um that you are bringing by you, I mean a developer of a new facility is bringing to the table to offset those greenhouse gas emissions. And then the fourth is simply to prohibit any new drive-thru. We did do some research on what other communities are doing. Um we could not find in our suburban areas any communities that have um prohibited drive-thrus. Um both Minneapolis Minneapolis does have a prohibition on um any new drive-thrus in their community. St. Paul uh takes more of a I would say number two or number three approach of prohibiting drive-thrus in certain areas um that are uh could be traffic impactful um in those areas. That is really kind of what I wanted to present this evening. Um we're hoping that um you'll just have a discussion amongst yourselves. We'll We'll listen to your discussion, uh take notes, and we'll provide that um to the council as they continue to think about um the the zoning ordinance. This will certainly come back to you as part of a larger the larger zoning ordinance package. And I do believe um Chairwoman, we do have one comment card for this subject. So, I'll turn it back to you. Um >> Sounds good. Okay. Uh thanks, Ms. Thomas and Ms. Sutherland. Does it Just procedurally, does it make sense for us to ask a couple questions, we'll do public hearing, and then we can kind of get into >> Yeah, I think if you follow your same process. So, any questions and and then open it up for the >> All right. Great. Uh Commissioners, any any questions for staff on this? Commissioner Shoemaker. >> The uh the topic of the um of the curbside pickup relative to being a part of this, you know, I guess this uh is an open question. The The emissions piece doesn't appear to be as critical almost as the land use and the flow. And so, we're just wondering how you thought of curbside pickup versus the idea of of the drive-throughs. >> Chairwoman and Commissioner Shoemaker, I'm I'm not sure that we had thought about that, if I'm going to be really honest. I think from And And my colleagues may want to jump in. The curbside pickup component of businesses seems to be more of a business operation. Um item um versus a drive-through, which is um which is more land use intensive. Um meaning it very much impacts how the site flows, where we have pedestrian traffic. Um versus the curbside pickup is just utilizing an existing um parking space. That's my guess about why we hadn't thought about it, but it's certainly something we could think about um as part of as part of the zoning thing going forward. So, we're we're going to take that as a note here. >> And maybe just a quick follow-up to that. I do because I think the the the emissions uh issue, I mean, there's there's certainly an opportunity there, but it does appear that maybe it is more becomes from a state sustainability it is more the land use and flow. And so, if if we're kind of pivoting off of the the emission side, cuz that's probably an an additive if you think of that, but if it's land use, I think it's I think your point is well made. Thank you. Anyone else? Any questions? Commissioner Brink. >> Yeah. Thank you, Chair. Um yeah, thank you for um the presentation and um uh I I I understand and I actually like this idea of village centers and you know, different area commercial areas of the city are all uniquely uniquely different that you had uh pointed out. Um even on you know, as you get deeper into that, are there ways to distinguish between um you know, certain drive-thrus are going to be much more intense than others, you know, like that this new coffee shop, the 7 Brew, I think, that just opened up in Badlands Heights where I've heard stories there's cars idling waiting in line for an hour and a half or whatever. It's a little different maybe than a a pharmacy that, you know, doesn't see quite that. Um yeah, how do we treat different levels of intensity? >> Uh Chair Waterman and Commissioner Brink, um in the current ordinance, we do not treat any any type of drive-thru differently. A drive-thru facility is a drive-thru facility is a drive-thru facility. I did notice that um at least one of our comparable cities. Um and by comparable cities, we have 10 communities that whenever we look at other people's ordinances, we look at those communities. They've similar population size to us and they're on freeways in the metro area. At least one of our other communities does separate out um financial and medical drive-thrus from um food-related drive-thrus. And my my guess is for that that very purpose. So, >> Any other questions? Commissioner Cher? >> Yes. Thank you. Um One of the questions is looking at like adding sustainability features, free-standing buildings or mixed-use buildings. I mean, how are we going to look at that? And as a tenant changes, if they don't have existing sustainability features, will it be on the new tenant to put these in? And I mean, a coffee shop is there's tight margins with restaurants, things like that. So, is it cost-prohibitive? Is it developers? So, it seems like there's a lot of things to think about with putting these on drive-thrus. And for the record, as someone who goes to the pharmacy, I've been known to sit there for 40 minutes. >> [laughter] >> So, you know, looking at how they operate actually might be very important to open those two lanes. So, thank you. >> A chair and a commissioner Cher, good good questions. I would have taken those down as notes. As we're thinking through the ordinance right now, this is slightly a pivot from the the um topic on drive-thrus, but I'll give another little a sneak peek. We have suggested in the proposed ordinance and the community work group hasn't seen this in its language yet. Um, but that for new construction of new buildings, so new commercial buildings, um, and new multi-family buildings, that uh, developers will have to choose um, a certain number of sustainable features from a menu. And I think that Miss Sutherland, the menu is up to about 43 different um, um, sustainable practices or features with certain standards associated with them. So, we it would not get to tenant change as we have um, looked at this right now again because from an operational standpoint as um, tenants um, investing heavily in the infrastructure of a building, that's probably not a good um, a good idea. >> I actually have two questions uh, one of them, just tell me if this is too far outside of our purview because it relates to economics and business development, but are there are there any statistics or have you heard of anything related to applicants looking to open up a business where it would be contingent on having a drive-thru and they just they cannot do that? >> Uh, Chairwoman I don't have any statistics. I do know that um, currently in um, the PID district, Drew can correct me if I'm wrong, we don't allow any um, we don't allow any drive-thrus um, in standalone buildings. So, we have had a few fast food folks who have um, reached out to the city over the last few years of wanting to put fast food drive-thru type situations in Bridgedale proper in the Ridgedale parking lot and that has not been something that's even come before this body because there's just not a mechanism to do that. >> Uh that's helpful and actually that sort of that does sort of dovetail to my second question which was just just oh was there was there something added on there? Okay. >> [laughter] >> We're we're just commiserating about code language but sorry. >> Just related to so right now a business would have to come forward with a CUP um could you just refresh my memory as to what what criteria would be involved in our evaluating that CUP? Is it sort of if they meet a bunch of criteria then they can >> Do you want to just read >> then we have to approve it or and and sort of dovetails into what you're just saying about Ridgedale under how how is that how are the provisions currently set up so that we just oh yeah we just don't allow drive-thrus for freestanding buildings. >> Yeah and Mr. Ingvalson has pulled up the code but just as a refresher a conditional use permit is something that the city has outlined certain standards in the code. If somebody applies for a conditional use permit and they meet those standards that we have established we are legally obligated to approve that. We can't um just simply decide that we don't like you know we prefer Chick-fil-A over Taco Bell so we can't um approve that. So Mr. Ingvalson. >> Yeah so I have it up here for the PID district. I'll read them first it has to be on the property that's guided for office service commercial or retail use and then within there the requirements are that they must have not have a drive-up windows that are stacking areas that are adjacent to residential properties. So it does have to be away from residential areas. Must provide must be provided with suitable visual screen from adjacent properties. Must provide stacking with a minimum of six cars. So, you have to have appropriate stacking around it. Must not have public address systems audible from any residential parcels. And lastly, the drive-up window or similar facility must be subordinate and associated with the permitted or conditionally permitted use within the building on the site. >> And that last standard was added very recently. We had a a rash of requests to put in standalone ATMs in parking lots throughout our community and we decided that you have to have an actual building to have a a drive-thru facility. >> Thank you. It's all my questions. All right, commissioners, how about we let's open the public hearing just cuz I know that there is a comment and then we can kind of come back to um uh another discussion, but so go ahead and open this. Uh I have one public comment card from Luke Van Santen. >> If I needed one of the comments, you might need >> Oh, okay, you came in. Yeah. Um All right. Welcome. If you could just give your name and address for the record and love to hear your comments. >> Good evening. My name is Luke Van Santen, 2148 Sheridan Hills Road in Ward 3. Um I sent an email to I think everybody this morning saying basically the same thing I'm going to say now. And I hope this isn't outside the scope of this discussion, but um if we're going to talk about I hope if we're going to talk about regulating drive-thrus that we can um make it so that all legal vehicles can be serviced at drive-thrus instead of just cars. That that's basically the gist of my comment. Thank you. >> Great, thank you. Well It's all good. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> I think it mainly helps with record tracking for uh actual name and spelling, so uh Why Why don't you come on up, give your name and address to the record and uh yeah. >> I'll just give you that official statement. >> All right, thank you. My name is Caleb Lee. I used to live on Canterbury Drive 1223, but now I I live in Orono. Mom started teaching in Minnetonka schools for several years, but had a I would say a fortuitous turn of events in my life that led me to buy a Chick-fil-A franchise. So, anybody ever eat at the Chick-fil-A in St. Louis Park on Highway 7? That one is mine. Hopefully it was a good experience, but I I I've been hoping for quite a while to open up a second location somewhere this direction in Minnetonka. I've got a a pretty large community of friends and family who live in this area and I had a a wonderful time teaching in the school district building relationships and the way the what I've been able to build in St. Louis Park has been for me it's been pretty incredible. I have a very diverse team, wonderful team, high retention rate. It kind of it kind of feels like a family. We have about 120 employees. And just watching them grow over the last 8 and 1/2 years developing developing them from starting team members all the way up has been super fun, very enjoyable and and I just I wanted to come be a subject matter expert for you guys and if you wanted to ask me questions, a lot of the stuff that was presented here is very accurate. They did a great job with their presentation. But I thought it would be fun to have someone who actually runs a drive-thru. And I run a very good drive-thru by the way. We just broke our car count record last week. We did 341 cars in 1 hour, which is about 10 cars every a car every 10 seconds. So, I know about efficiency. I know about operations. I know about every channel of service from a restaurant you can you can name whether I've got a fleet of delivery cars, we do curbside, uh mobile drive-thru, all that kind of stuff. Um I can explain all that. But I wanted to just kind of come and advocate for um a restaurant like mine. Uh I believe I've had a I've had a very positive impact on my community in St. Louis Park. Um and I and I wanted to offer you you guys to be able to ask me questions if you're interested. If you don't want to ask questions, I can kind of go down a bullet list of some things that was mentioned that I think support some of the options that you have to choose as you guys move forward thinking about regulations. Would you like to give me any guidance >> uh Mr. Lee, we usually have like about a 3-minute timer. So, why don't you just kind of go on with your comments and then to the extent what we what we'll probably do is we'll start a discussion and then to the extent we have questions, we could could bring you back up. >> Okay, perfect. Perfect. >> Thank you. >> Well, well, I think the first thing I want to say is like when I think about what you guys are discussing, um I think about what my restaurant has done for the Norwood shopping area, you know? Um we've lifted that area big time as far as an option to eat. We I do over 600,000 transactions a year. We which it's high volume. And as far as revenue, I do probably three to four times what a regular I I do three to four times what a McDonald's would do. So, our revenue is very high. Uh I I have 120 employees. I do $2 million a year in payroll. So, I provide a lot of jobs and and a pretty good tax base for that area. Um and so when you think about like what kind of drive-thrus you do want to add when you consider what the what the the the cost-benefit analysis, I would say a Chick-fil-A is a pretty high-value uh option uh for the quality food, the speed of service, and then for what I provide for my team members. We offer insurance, 401K. I've given away in the 8 years, 40 scholarships for college students. There's just a big advantage there. But as far as like the operational things, sustainability, all my packaging is compostable. We use paper products. We don't use Styrofoam like a lot of Chick-fil-A's in the South do. We have a mobile lane for our drive-thru. So you talk about starting and stopping cars, our mobile lane is like the Indy 500. They come in, they scan, they come around, they stop once, get their food, and they're gone. Which that helps with our efficiency. As far as let me think what else we got here. As far as what I offer what what I'm I apologize that I'm kind of advocating for my business model, but donations. I I I never say no to schools that come to me that ask for help. I donate tons of food, tons of money to sports programs, to education programs. Lots of spirit nights, they come to my restaurant, they they they advertise it, I give them a portion of the sales. I love that, I value that. Um Let's see what else. I guess I would say that I mean as far as efficiencies go, when I I've had this conversation with people before. Um I know Chick-fil-A's look like they're in gridlock. They're not. The the reason the line is so long for our restaurants, and it's only for Chick-fil-A, it's because we are so efficient. If you think about it, what would cause a person to get in a line of 40 cars? It's because they've been there before, and they know that they're going to get out pretty fast. And I'll just tell you of the 600,000 transactions I did last year in my drive-thru, the speed of service was under 3 minutes. And I And I can bring all the data if you wanted to see it to show that, but we pride ourselves our business model is speed and efficiency. And so, when you think about limiting or regulating um obviously I I I I don't know enough about the status quo about what to say there, but when you talk about, you know, your option three about having uh high standards design elements, I would say I can do all that, okay? I with with our business model. Um so, I just wanted to come and advocate for that for just for drive-thrus. I would love to open another restaurant in Minnetonka. Uh I've been had my eye on it for quite a while. All my friends and family around here keep asking me, "When are you going to have a Chick-fil-A?" Oh, here's the last thing. Just this just so you can know the difference between Chick-fil-A and other franchises. I'm the I'm the owner-operator. I'm in the store every day. It's not like an investment for me. This isn't passive income. Chick-fil-A won't allow you to operate your restaurant that way. I my my I I When I signed the contract, I agreed to be actively involved in the business. And so, when you think of a of of of drive-thru of a business like that, that's what makes our our model, I think, work to uplift an area or to bring more value to an area that I would say if you were to say limit drive-thrus, you'd it would be limiting an opportunity for a business like mine to come in and really add value to the community. So, anyway. Great. That's all. Thank you. Okay. Um I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing. Seeing no one else. Um Commissioners, uh we have the we have the regulatory options up on the screen. We've heard differing views, which is actually helpful. Um what I'm trying to think of how to facilitate discussion. Just any anyone have any initial initial thoughts for that we're kind of gleaning through this or particular conclusions. We can kind of This is This is the fun of it. We can kind of go have some back and forth. Commissioner Johnson. >> Well, I like the idea of picking and choosing the village centers where you can have drive-thrus because one size doesn't fit all. Just having been a lot of our village centers and I I agree it should be more auto-oriented. You have got to look at the site, too, and make sure that your stacking is appropriate. Um that's going to make a big difference in terms of uh sustainability. The traffic flow and the efficiency is important. Incorporating sustainability features, you can use tradeoffs with that. That maybe, you know, you can have more favorable conditions with you know, with regard to spacing, uh setbacks and that if they include sustainability features. So, I like option number three. I don't think we should prohibit new drive-thrus because we're not so densely uh developed that we have to do that like Minneapolis. Um there are areas where I think they would be appropriate. >> Thank you. Other thoughts on that? Commissioner Shoemaker. >> Thank you, Chair. I would uh I would lean towards the second option. I do think this idea of certain villages makes a ton of sense and when they are more oriented towards uh auto versus pedestrian, I think it's easier. I think being getting that definition right and being clear and aligning to what that is is really important. I I definitely think we we should not um prohibit them. I I guess I'm a little bit on the fence on the third option. I do like the idea that if it's um under this net new construction as you've indicated that there are these optionalities uh that are available to to that construction. I think it's it does get uh a little more complicated when you're thinking about uh current buildings, facilities, and changing of tenants, that kind of a thing. But generally speaking, um I think somewhere between two and three makes a lot of sense. >> All right. Thank you. Other thoughts, Commissioner Sherer? >> Thank you. Um I actually lean a little bit towards one, allowing all drive-thrus in all village centers. Um just but right-sized. I think it it just needs to be right-sized because they are a benefit to um the communities that they're in. So, I think as long as there's with with the sustainability features. So, if if it's backing up to a residential area, if it's backing up to a park, um making sure that there's space for it, making sure that there's buffers, green buffers, and things like that. Um but I again, I think allowing them in all village centers really will be beneficial to the people who live close by. So, thank you. >> Commissioner Brinker, any any thoughts? >> Yeah. Um yeah, as I look through these, I think number four is the only one I don't uh that I would not uh um recommend doing right now. I mean, one, two, and three, I I I see value in all those, you know, maybe some kind of hybrid amongst the three. Uh I think it really is um important that we try and incorporate sustainability features in these um as we uh you know, work toward reducing our, you know, CO2 emissions and so forth. Um I think that's important, but um um, I think I think just looking each village center is unique, but even within the village centers, there's um you know, uniqueness as far as where a drive-thru gets placed even within the village center. And I think we just need to be open to what uh might get uh proposed to be brought in. Um, and and we do have, it sounds like some guardrails in place like we can't have queues, you know, extending into residential areas. So um um, I like the idea that we have some standards, some guardrails in place, and maybe we need to uh beef those up a little more or um you know, have more language that addresses those a little more, but um yeah, um I think uh this is a good process that we're going through. >> Interesting. Commissioner Chair. >> Thank you. Yeah, I'm I think looking forward, we don't know how these village centers are going to change and grow and adapt. And so limiting what's possible and allowing for innovation in how these may be designed, um a tighter area will allow for that. So also wanting to move towards more EV and cars that are already hybrid. So that's going to help with some of of the emissions so as they get better. So I think just in in looking forward, um I think it's a great way for again innovation in communities and um how they'll expand in the future and having the opportunities to do these sorts of things. So thank you. >> Um, I guess I'll give my comments. It doesn't have to be the be all end all. Um, so having been here a while, I don't see drive-thrus as something that's particularly broken. So I might lean more towards one in terms of the the status quo. I do like the idea of maybe if there are ways to weave in guidance for a you know, the the guided for office, commercial, retail. um Certain areas might lend themselves better to that, whereas other areas might just be, "Hey, everything in in including restaurants." Um you know, I've seen a couple of these come through. I recall the Bank one. I recall Taco Bell uh rebuild up uh it was I think a new new site on in the I guess it's technically PID. Um I recall when when the Wells Fargo building was being redeveloped, the choice of restaurants in there was ostensibly limited um because of the lack of drive-thru, um which that was the At the time it was one of the few situations that people who know I was a planning commissioner reached out to me about what they wanted to be in the restaurant space and they did not get it. I I I almost had not heard quite as many thoughts on anything. So, I'm I'm a little bit low touch on this just because I think that it does work with with the provisions um of of not allowing absolutely everything and and what you're saying about um you know, conditional use permit if it does uh meet all the requirements that we have to approve it, you know, maybe maybe some guidance for certain village centers, which gets into number two. I just don't know if I would say like, "Hey, it can only only at certain village centers could you have them." Um Regarding Oh, that's right. Regarding number three, I'm not as moved by the sustainability aspect of this particular um and and connecting it to regulations regarding drive-thrus. There was some interesting discussion about, you know, obviously, queuing is a consideration and and individual sites are considerations, so I think that's relevant. And then Commissioner Shoemaker, you mentioned kind of looking at the land use. I was I was thinking about that. Uh I grew up in a community not here where um there were just a lot of drive-thrus and just a lot of it's just lot of pavement, a lot of impervious surface along the main street, and that's just what I wouldn't really want for Minnetonka but I would also want businesses to be able to operate. I mean people want to utilize it. So, those are my comments. Does that anyone have any other back and forth? All right. City, is that or Ms. Thomas, is that useful? >> I think so. If I If I could just summarize, I did not hear any consensus on prohibiting new drive-throughs. So, I think that is kind of off off the table. And then good commentary on kind of each of the three options. I think staff we we go to the council in July. Just as an update, they're not making any decisions but just as an update of the sustainability um commission's conversation and your commission's conversation. And so you've raised some other questions for us um tonight. You may not have known that you raised questions but um we're we're starting to think of things. So, we will take all of this to the the council. Um we're going to take off the idea of prohibiting new drive-throughs and maybe come back with a a hybrid of all of these. So, I I think this is helpful at least um for me. Um >> You think kept >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Great. >> All right. Thank you everyone. Okay, moving on to item number 10. Uh adjournment. Is there someone who'd like to make a motion to adjourn? Motion Brink. >> Um I'd like to make a motion but before we vote, I just one last time would like to thank you chair Waterman Commissioner Waterman for your service to the city and sacrifice and um we'll miss you and but we wish you well. >> Thank you so much. Motion Brink. Second his motion to adjourn, not the >> [laughter] >> Anyone want to second that? Okay, second chair. All those in favor will signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> All right, meeting is adjourned. Good night. >> [music] [music] [music]