[music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] >> Good evening and welcome to the Oh, we got to turn it on. September 3rd meeting of the Minnitanka Planning Commission. The commission generally meets twice a month, always on a Thursday. The schedule and tenant of meeting agendas can be obtained by calling the planning commission or by checking the city website at minnitankamn.go. gov. The commission holds public hearings on land use applications. For all land use applications, the city notifies property owners within at least 400 ft of the site and post plans and information on minnotonka mn.gov. For some applications, the city also places signs in the properties and places notices in the subsailor. From a specific process standpoint, the commission makes recommendations [music] to the city council on reszoning, subdivisions, conditional use permits, and addendums to the city's comprehensive guide plan, zoning ordinances, and the subdivision regulations. We also make some final decisions on site plans, signage requests, variance requests, and expansion permits, unless these requests are part of an application that must be heard by [music] the city council. In that case, the commission makes the recommendation of the city council and the city council makes the final decision. Anyone who is agrieved by any by the final planning commission decision may appeal the decision to the city council. If you wish to appeal, you must submit a written request to the city staff within 10 days of this meeting. On a broader standpoint, the city's comprehensive guide plan, zodin ordinances, and subdivision regulations are the city's best efforts to codify a balance between the individual rights and community responsibilities. Individual rights are easy to understand. Community responsibilities are more subtle. But the idea is this that we the members of the community agree to limit our individual rights for a common good of the group. The planning division, the planning commission, the city council are charged with managing this sometimes difficult balancing act. We ask that you keep this broader perspective in mind as we review tonight's applications. Again, welcome. Staff, please call roll call. >> Shoemaker, >> present. >> Banks, >> present. >> Brink >> here. >> Johnson >> here. >> Sher here. Abdi here. Minion >> here. The next item on the agenda is the is the approval of the agenda. Staff, are there any changes? >> Uh, no changes this evening. >> May I have a motion to approve the agenda? Bless you. Sheer, >> I move that we approve the agenda. >> May we have a second? >> I'll second it. >> All right. Uh, >> motion by Sheer, seconded by Johnson. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I. >> Any opposed? All right. Motion carries. Approval of the minutes. The next is approval of the minutes for the date of the commission of August 20th, 2026. Commissioners, are there any changes? No changes. May I have a motion to approve the minutes? >> A motion to approve the minutes. >> May I have a second? I'll sec I'll second. All right. Uh, motion Mr. Commissioner Banks, seconded by Commissioner Brink. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I. >> Anyone opposed? >> Motion carries. All right. Report from staff. >> Uh, chair and commission. Uh, the city council met on Monday evening. We had, uh, two items on their agenda that have been before the planning commission. Uh first was a detached accessory dwelling unit on Liner Road and then a two lot subdivision on Oakland Road on the east side of Oakland Road. Both of those were on consent and approved uh as per your recommendation and with those conditions that you uh had. Um your next meeting is September the 24th. So we have a couple of uh weeks off here. And then I'll just uh let you know um the October 22nd meeting, we will be cancelling that meeting. Planning staff will be at the state planning conference um that night. >> Yes, Julie and I will be um presenting uh on that specific day. Um some of us are excited about that and some of us are less excited about that, but we will be there. So again, um September 24th, your next uh agenda, and um October 22nd, you have a free evening. >> Wonderful. All right, commissioners. Are there any reports from [music] commissioners? No way. Everybody's so quiet. Well, I'd like to welcome our new commissioner, Commissioner Abdi. Thank you for coming. And uh this is your second day, your second time. >> Yes, sir. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> All right. Don't mean to put you on the spot. You don't have to say anything. All right. Um, we have a public hearing now for item number seven is the consent agenda. Uh, next in our consent agenda, the city staff places items on that are con considered routine on the consent agenda. No staff or applicant presentations will be made. The commission will hold one public hearing and approve all items on the consent agenda with one motion subject to staff recommendations conditions of approval. Before voting in the consent agenda, I will open a public hearing, announce each item, and ask if anyone wishes to have a separate discussion or vote on that item. If so, the commission will then report the item uh from the consent agenda. And sorry, we'll remove that item from the consent agenda and hold a separate hearing on it after voting on the remaining consent agenda items. I may allow formal questions without removing the item from the consent agenda. I will open the public hearing now. All right. The first item on the consent agenda is number 7A, Wii Rock Spectrum Sensory Friendly Children's Gym at 10925 Bren Road East. Uh, does any commissioners wish to remove the item? Does anyone from the audience wish to remove the item? Okay. Well, looks like we have no one stepping up, so I'll close the public public meeting. Uh, commissioners, may I have a motion to reprove approve the items on the consent agenda? Commissioner Johnson, >> I make that motion. >> All right. May I have a second? >> Second. >> Commissioner Abdi. All right. Motion by Johnson, seconded by Abdi. Staff, please call the commission. >> Shoemaker, >> yes. >> Banks, >> yes. >> Brink, >> yes. >> Johnson, >> yes. >> Sher, >> yes. Abdi, >> yes. Many, >> yes. >> We have no consent agenda items tonight. >> Uh, chair, I'll just note that that item is a recommendation to the city council and the city council will hear that on >> September 14th. >> September 14th. >> Thank you. I needed that. >> All right. Uh other business uh public hearings there's no con uh public hearings uh for the u non-consent and other businesses zoning ordinance update. City would you uh care to step in? >> Sure. I'll kick us off. Uh Susan and I have been doing this presentation at a few different commissions and so we're here tonight to kind of help the planning commission keep up to speed on what's happening on the zoning work of the city. There is a work group uh that's uh involved. We'll talk about that in a minute. And uh you have some folks on your commission that are involved and so they've kind of been telling you what's been going on. But this is hopefully a uh an update for you and also for the public that may be listening. So, we're using this forum to help keep the uh information flow going. So, what this is um we're we're going to talk about what is zoning and you guys know it, but u maybe the public does not know. Well, do you want to play the video first? Yeah, let's do the video first and then you'll get a sense of what we've been showing folks online. >> 20 years. >> Whoops. An important part of a comprehensive [laughter] plan. >> Are not built by chance. It takes careful planning and a long-term vision for the community's future. >> A comprehensive plan is a guiding document that serves as a blueprint for the city's long-term growth and development and is required by state law. It establishes a community vision and sets goals over the next 20 years. An important role of a comprehensive plan is to designate land for specific uses, including residential, business, and parks. [music] This ensures Minnotonka balances development with the community's changing needs for housing, [music] transportation, recreation, sustainability, and more. Zoning translates a plan's community vision into [music] specific regulations. Minnesota cities are required to update their comprehensive plan at least every 10 years. Minnitanka will soon be working on its next plan, envisioning our community through a 2050 comp plan update. You can learn more at minnotonkamatters.com. So, what is zoning and why should I care? Zoning is a set of rules [music] that governs what can and cannot be built in the city. It's a tool to protect the public health and [music] safety of a community. Communities are divided into zoning districts. Every property in the city is located within a zoning district. There are residential, commercial, and industrial districts. Each district has specific rules that govern how the property can be used and what can be built there. These are called zoning codes. A zoning code regulates how a property can be used as well as the location of homes, [music] businesses, and industry. The size, height, and design of buildings, designates areas for natural resource protection, [music] and layout of parking lots and landscaping. It separates types of uses that would not work well together. Zoning exists to ensure that each property is built to be compatible with its surroundings and help areas function better as a community. Zoning sets expectations for new development and for changes to existing properties. It shapes how a community looks and feels. Cities use zoning ordinances to communicate these codes. A zoning ordinance helps people understand how they can use a property and the type of buildings that can be constructed there. Minnotonka's existing ordinance was put into place in the mid 1980s. It [music] has been amended hundreds of times since, making it difficult to navigate, hard to interpret, and [music] less aligned with current community goals. The city is currently in the process of updating its zoning ordinance to [music] modernize zoning regulations, clarify standards, update outdated rules, and provide [music] helpful graphics and tables. You're invited to share your input on this important process. Through community engagement, the city hopes to adopt a new ordinance that streamlines the development process and better aligns with Minnitonka's comprehensive [music] plan. This will ensure every land use decision advances the city's overarching vision for strategic growth, [music] housing diversity, and sustainability. Learn more about the zoning ordinance update at minnotonkamatters.com. So, that's zoning in three points. >> Not built by >> Are we going to play it again? [laughter] That's zoning in three minutes or less. Uh hopefully you like the video. If if you have some feedback for us, um as I told the DI commission, we have one round of edits to do yet. And so, if you picked up on something that maybe you think should be changed or clarified or something, we we can still we still have time to do that. This is posted on our website right now, but um as I said, we can redo things as needed. So, as the video shared, we have, you know, a zoning tool to make sure that uh we manage land use >> and and Susan just loves this video so much. She wants to play it over and over. [laughter] So, anyway, >> uh you just have to be in a different part of the Are we good? Okay, I'll let the zoning code or the zoning video speak for itself. All right, so you know, and a lot of people talk about zoning and whether or not was really intended as a neutral tool and and as purists and and planners, we we often think about zoning was at its base really meant to have um equity in mind. So if you see the the buildings that are on the equitable building example in New York um way back uh in the early days of zoning there was an idea that we should protect people's ability to see sunlight to have air flow those types of [music] things should be protected for property owners and and residents of the community. As we know in the decades past it has been used for other things. It's used to exclude folks. It's been used in different ways and as Susan and I often talk about, it's really not the tool itself. It's the people implementing the tool that has gone wrong um in many of the cities and many of the um circumstances that you've seen across the [music] country. Um the other thing I want to talk about is really the first zoning ordinance in Minnotonka which was done in 1966. So if you think about by the way we're celebrating our seven 70th year this year. So when we were incorporated uh in 1956 uh we are now 70 years old but our ordinances did not happen until about 10 years after the incorporation [music] of of us being a city. So that was kind of an interesting time I'm sure between 1956 and 1966 what was happening in our city. I'm sure there was lots of um discussion perhaps and and long meetings and and late nights at P uh planning commission hearings, but then they updated updated the ordinance in 1986. And the framework in which that's built on is pretty much what we have today. But we've amended it many many many many times. And we know this from the diagnostic [music] talk that we had a number of months ago. And so that diagnostic told us, you know, when was it last updated? what happened to the ordinance, what changed in the ordinance, all that stuff was in another document. So, if you ever want to kind of refresh your memory, why did we write the ordinance that way? There is a document out there that kind of tracks what happened and why. And I think that's really helpful if you're looking for some of the historical basis of the zoning code. Go ahead. And so, what we've been doing uh for the last year to year and a half is we've been having lots of meetings with folks. Uh we've been having the zoning work group. Uh Jerick, I see your picture right there in the front. Um and then we also have Oh, yep. Sandy's in there, too. Um and we have our former EDAC member, we have DEI members, we have uh staff members, you can see off to the right. So, there's lots of people kind of um plugging into this process. We also, if you don't recall this, we did a phone survey early on as well as an online survey. We showed you the difference between kind of a more objective statistical uh way of providing feedback about zoning and then kind of in a more um opinion optin type um website gathering feedback. And then um there also was a lot of consultant research. We have our consultants on staff still um they're leading us through the final months of this uh drafting and then we've done some council check-ins along the way as well. And if you don't recall, the whole point of this exercise was to get kind of the alignment of the comprehensive plan, the long range vision of the community [music] to match with what was actually in ordinance in terms of the implementation of the zoning [music] ordinance. So, I'll just go through these highlighted areas. The shift to a modern approach um proactively defining what the city wants to have and better advance those goals. A lot of it had to do about supporting diverse ranges of housing in the community, removing some of the barriers that we were seeing. Of course, and never to be changed, I think, in probably Minnetonka's history is to change the environmental protection that we have. We have a strong tree ordinance we had, the first wetland ordinance, I think, in the state of Minnesota, um flood plane laws, steep slope ordinances, you name it. none of those ordinances are changing in at their essence. Um so that's to kind of keep that intact, maintain that a little bit of simplification of the development process. Sometimes these processes can get kind of muddy over time, get complicated, probably more complicated they than [music] they need to be. And so we're trying to work on that and then just aligning those goals of the comprehensive plan. So, at this point, Susan is going to walk through some of the major changes that uh are in the zoning code draft that's up on the Minnetonka Matters website. We are taking comments right now. So, anybody listening to this, you want to go out. I encourage you to read some of our materials before commenting. I' I've seen a few comments online and it it seems like maybe we aren't uh capturing uh all of what needs to be said. So, maybe we'll improve our handouts and get with that. But um we'll get some more feedback and Susan will tell us what's changing. >> Agreed. Uh by show of hands, has anyone seen the Minnitonka memo arrive in their mailbox yet? Did you notice the front page is the zoning ordinance? Okay. We're we're interested in who all has received it yet and um who has not. So, thank you for that. And then that does go I just want to note this that goes to 24,000 households. um not just um folks that own their home, but also for apartments or anybody renting in the community, they do see the memo. Um and that front page article was really important because it says something physical. I always think online, you know, you might miss an email, you might miss a link or something like that. And so, um if people say they didn't hear about it, I'm not sure what else to do. So, um keep that memo handy when you're out and about and show people, uh here it is. and we would love to your feedback. So, thanks. >> As Julie said, I'm I'm going to dive into the um the primary differences as we see uh it from staff's perspective between the existing ordinance and the draft ordinance. It would take hours if not days to go through all of the differences, but I would say that the majority of those differences are very um technical in in nature. So, these are kind of the the broader changes. Um, first has to do with zoning districts. Uh, we currently have five different residential districts, R1 through R5. And three of those existing districts are classified as low density. And as a reminder for those who don't or or as a point of knowledge for those who don't know, low density is defined as one to four units per acre. and an acre. Uh, every good planner can recite that off the top of their head. 43,560 square feet um in an acre. So, one to four units per acre is considered low density. Um, the proposed ordinance consolidates low density districts, medium density districts, and the high density district, which um remains the same. And so that really reflects what's in our comprehensive plan. It's difficult to have a a zoning ordinance um that calls out different standards than the comprehensive plan. So we're we're consolidating um those districts. Conversely, we have just um three or four maybe business districts in our community and we apply the same business regulations from a physical perspective to all businesses or commercial properties um regardless of where they're located in our community. And we know or I hope that you feel when you're in Glen Lake, it feels a lot different [music] than when you're in the Ridgedale area, though those are actually diff those are commercial properties. And so technically, we have the same um regulations in terms of setbacks and parking and signage and all of those things. And um the proposed ordinance really looks at those different what we call village centers, which again are already in our comprehensive guide plan. it looks at those and establishes standards that reflect those different um places. So in Glen Lake, we want smaller buildings, but we want them closer to the street. That was what makes Glen Lake feel like Glen Lake versus in Ridgedale, you can have some taller buildings, you can have some bigger signs. You're on the freeway. And so the proposed ordinance really um separates those different areas. The other thing that it does is we're going to rely heavily on or we're proposing to rely heavily on graphics and tables rather than language. So on the left image is the first of about five pages that calls out district standards in our low density R1 district. On the right is the one page that would now call out those standards. So you can um find the information you need hopefully in a easily or um easier digestible uh format. The next difference is in lot sizes and dimensions and these are are simplified and I'm calling out just in our um residential areas but this also applies to our commercial and village center areas. Um this table tries to show that in our existing ordinance again the low density districts R1, R1A and R2 the minimum lot sizes and the minimum setbacks um they vary. So for instance in lot area varies from 12,500 square ft as a minimum to 22,000 square ft. And I should stop and say um this is for newly created lots. Um since I've been in the city of Minnetonka for 25 years, I frequently hear people say we are a community of halfacre lots, which is about 22,000 square ft. And that's um simply not actually factual. We have properties that range from about 3,000 square ft to 7,000 or 7 [music] acres in size. um we're at about 40 a little over 40% of our properties do not meet 22,000 ft². They're under that and about 60% uh meet that. And so this 12500 to 22,000 is for newly created lots. Um the proposed ordinance suggests that that be standardized to 18,000 square ft. [music] So that would um raise the minimum requirement in some areas and lower it in other areas of our community. I'm not sure if I explained that uh well you want to >> Yeah. The only thing I would add to what Susan was saying I think the other thing she'll get to the uh twin home issue in a minute but think about an 18,000t lot and if you put a twin home that's 9,000 per lot. So even though you don't have an R2 zoned [music] property anymore, you have a low density, there's opportunity to do more units. Um, not a lot, but a few more units. And and I think the picture is trying to show that if this development on Marble Court was just [music] leveled and you started over, what would it look like? And so that's the difference you see on the left is current today and what it could look like in the future if it was just single family. But if you had twin homes, then there's a little bit different scenario. So I think 18,000 if you're dealing with one household, uh 9 and nine if you had a twin home um that was subdivided. So hopefully that helps on that particular slide. >> You stole some of my thunder, but that's okay. >> Why? [laughter] >> I said you stole some of my thunder. I'm sorry. Um we also are proposing um a setback reduction and this is really based on quite frankly variances that have come before the planning commission over the last about 10 [music] years and we looked at what are the types of variances that we're seeing to setback requirements and what are the variances that are regularly approved and so reducing front yard setbacks from uh 35 ft to 25 ft on more uh what we would call local streets. So for instance, Marboro Court um from 50 ft to 35 ft on um what we refer to as collector or arterial streets but are basically county roads. So Mitankka Boulevard, Wiston, those types of things. Julie spoke about this uh briefly, but we are suggesting that in the LDR, we're going to start using that language, um lowdensity residential district, um twin homes would be allowed uh in that district um on on a lot. That means that um two dwellings could be built within the same footprint essentially as one dwelling could be built. The setbacks remain the same. So if that makes sense, the the size of the structure doesn't increase, but [music] rather there's two dwellings. Um and this is a a could someone uh could do this. also would be allowed to build an accessory dwelling unit in a low density um residential lot, an LDR [music] lot. Um meaning uh someone could build that without having to come before the planning commission and city council for a conditional use permit. That would be something that city staff would uh review and approve if it met the requirements. So, uh, put another way, and I think we have this on the website, in a lowdensity residential district, um, you could have a single family home on a lot, you could have a twin home on a lot, or you could have a single family home and an accessory dwelling unit. Um, no more than two units um, per lot. I also want to I I I'm trying to use better language, but we are also getting away in the ordinance of using the term single family home and uh two family home, but instead using single dwelling unit and um two double multi-dwelling unit. I apologize. So, we're moving away from um some of some of that language [music] in the village centers. So, our commercial districts um some other uses that usually would come before this commission um like restaurants, medical clinics, daycarees, those would also be things that city staff could review and approve um administratively. Again, if they met the setback requirements, if they met the parking requirements, um those types of of things. The council did discuss, and you'll recall discussing drive-throughs and whether or not those should be allowed. The council did decide that they would like to continue to allow drive-throughs as conditionally permitted uses. So, something you would still see um but only in certain village centers. So, think of the village centers where we have drive-throughs already. [music] Um essentially, those would continue to be those areas. This is a um [music] a change that's more of an engineering change, but um interesting um interesting nonetheless. No offense to the engineers uh in the room. Um but we would add an imperous surface limit within our low density residential districts. We're one of the only communities, and Julie can correct me if I'm wrong, where we don't actually have an impervious surface restriction unless you're on a lake in our community. and you are a [music] resident. So, people will call city staff all the time and say, "How much hard cover I can I have on my property?" And we'll say, "If you meet the setbacks, you can have as much hard cover as you would like." Our engineering staff did a a lot of study. They did some modeling with our um water resources uh consultant to look at what would be an appropriate imperous surface restriction in our community given our wetlands and our flood plane and things like that. and they are suggesting a a 20% maximum without storm water management unless and less and less and less. There's obviously um Commissioner Brink knows if you're by a a wetland, if you're by a flood plan, you have these just built in. But if you were not near any of those things, you could have up to 20% impervious without any um additional engineering. If you wanted to go over 20%, it's not a variance, but you can incrementally work up if you incrementally add um storm water management. And they would look at unique things like soil type and um well, that's the one that I can come up with. Soil type, um drainage, you know, where things are are are flowing to. But really, it's trying to um tie imperousness and sustainability sustainable and resilient type [music] of things that we're trying to do in our community. So that's impervious service limits. >> Yeah. I think the only thing I would add to what Susan was saying and I think part of this is to make it not owners on the property owner. You can do what you want to do, the projects you want to do, but you have a you have a responsibility in the sustainability realm to make sure it it doesn't damage other things, right? So, I think this was kind of um a way to meet both goals, which is control some of the imperous surface, but yet allow people to do things on their property that would be important to them with conditions. And I think this is [music] a good well, you can tell us if you think it's a good in between. So, >> I will say it's one of the things that we probably worked the longest on was this uh impervious surface. was a hard some other differences. Speaking of sustainability and and resilience, we have added some um requirements for new construction, not um new home construction, but multifamily type construction um commercial buildings that if there is redevelopment or new construction that a developer has to achieve a certain number of sustainable um and resilient points. they can choose from a menu um in each um item in that menu. And I encourage you to go look at appendix A which is online uh and you can see all of those menu options. But for instance, if you wanted to do a green roof, you're going to get five sustainability points and you you meet your sustainability requirement. [music] Um you could put in um heat source air, you know, I'm saying that wrong. Air pump heat source pump. You could do um solar on your roof. You can do um electrical electric charging. Um but bigger things, bigger lifts are worth more points. Um and so we don't have to necessarily ask developers when they come in, what are they doing in terms of sustainability? Have they thought about uh uh making the roof solar ready? they'll have to show up with their application and say these are the things that I am doing to meet your points. Similar we have uh some trailoriented design standards that's appendix B if you want to look at that uh when you get home. Uh similar if you are developing or redeveloping a site that is along a trail in our community. Again, not um home sites, [music] but larger buildings. And not just a trail in the community, but a trail that's planned in our community. You're going to have to choose from a menu of options. And um this menu is really to get our new construction to talk to, if you will, one of the greatest amenities of our community, which is our trail system. So, if you're going to build uh a coffee shop that has access to a trail, you should really have access to that trail and you [music] should put some amenity back there. People should be able to walk into your coffee shop from from the trail. There should be some seating. Some of the um options there are things like um certainly bike racks, um bike repair stations, um pet um drinking water stations, um some shade um uh that's not just um natural shade. So, there's a a menu of options there also. And our our park and trail planner was uh really critical in coming up with some of those. Now, this one I have not shown at other um commissions, but I'm showing you because it is a change to some of the work that you will be doing that we're suggesting. You may remember when we did your planning commission orientation, for some of you that was not too long ago, for some of you that was quite a while ago, that when the city makes land use decisions, they're acting in one of two ways. they're acting either legislatively whether you're establishing rules for a property, so the zoning ordinance, um if you are reszoning a property, if you're adopting a master development plan, you are creating rules for um how a property can be used. If we're actually applying those rules, you the city is acting what's called quasi judicial. So, we're creating the rules, we're enforcing the rules. Um, conditional use permits, you'll hear staff say a lot, um, this meets all the standards and so the city's legally obligated to approve that. Um that is a judicial decision and our consultant had suggested and um staff agrees that the city council they are the the legislators for our community and so they should be making legislative decisions whereas this body you are the interpreters of that legislation. So, you're deciding, does this meet the rules? And some of those decisions are still subjective um but does this meet the rules that are um on the books? And so with all of that, what we are suggesting is that this body would actually have authority to, as you do now, for variances and expansion permits, you will actually then have authority for conditional use permits and expansion permits, which are again a application of the rule. Oh, and interim uh use permits. Um the city council would still be the appeal body. Anything um staff does can be appealed to you and anything you do can be appealed um to the city council. So ultimately um they would still have that authority. I'll stop there. >> That's a lot. >> That's a lot. [laughter] So, I think the ask this evening is really to just make sure you're up to date. Ask some questions, give us some feedback, right? We're looking for anything and everything. If you've looked at the Minnetonka Matters page, anything that you're confused about, things that we haven't been clear about, um, we're here to listen and improve whatever we have online. Uh, other things, Susan, that you're wishing to receive this evening? No, I I questions that you may have generally about um what we've talked about, things that might make you twitchy about what we've talked about. Having said that, I want to make sure that we know this is not a public hearing. You should not be um saying this. It's not a decision. >> It's not a decision. So, you shouldn't be saying you support this, you don't support it. Just making general um general comments. Like an example I would say on this slide would be I really don't like the idea of conditional use permits being only heard at the planning commission because whatever reason you might have and I think you should maybe think about that maybe reconsider that. So I think that's an example. It doesn't have to be that specific [music] but that's an example for you. So with that chair we'll turn it back to you. tremendous amount of work by uh the city and by a handful of folks here in our [music] presence. Thank you all very much. Um kind of a little guidance from you. So if we dig in a little deeper, do you want us to fill it out on the survey or would you rather rather get an email from us? How did you how would you what's the best way to serve you on that? >> I would say that as you consider things, you should you can email me um directly as commissioners. I don't think you should you shouldn't be filling things out on the the public uh comment page. Again, that's for the the public. So, um you can email me directly. You can copy um Julie if you have questions or comments. >> Okay. Well, great job. Commissioners, I don't know if it's appropriate to poll, but I you kind of open the floor a little bit earlier. Is is there anybody more informal question or >> anybody like to [music] say anything? Commissioner Johnson, >> I've been involved in this process in the beginning and it has evolved amazingly and that's got to be city staff. I know that you've you've put a lot of work into this because this is not only something that I think the average person homeowner could look at and know what they can and cannot do. That is not possible under the current ordinance. And I think this is wonderful what you're doing with these graphs and visualizing a lot of people it's just visualization they get it. Um going through the ordinance say district standards you know that's tough to navigate for even you know city staff. So I say kudos to you. I am very much in favor of making local laws understandable to the general public and this is a big step for that. I think it opens possibilities for property owners too. Um there's more opportunity to do things and build things and I particularly like the sustainability design and the points and all of that. I think that's that's that's what Menitaka is about. So thank you Anybody else? No. All right. I believe we're ready for Oh, did somebody raise their hand? I'm sorry. Oh, Mr. Commissioner Bang B. Mr. >> B. Um just ju just just a comment from uh uh when Julie mentioned um when you when you talked about planning commission deciding things versus council and there were a couple things that I think changed there were conditional use permits and said maybe we should think about some of these things more but first thing that came to my mind on that was say conditional use permits sometimes they're just very routine you know and and um yeah why not just go with the planning commission that's it but then there's others that become um controversial, I guess, or the public really gets engaged and they're calling their council members and it's like, well, maybe that then now it's more appropriate for the council to be deciding on this. So, I I guess is there flexibility on these things or how would you foresee some of these things rolling out in the future? Maybe. >> Well, I was trying to think Susan maybe can remind me on like I'm trying to think of things you do final decisions on now, right? You do variances, you do expansion permits today like the chart shows and site and building plan. And then I'm trying to think about how many times does that get appealed to the council. It's actually not very often. Um I can think of a few cases over the last year. Typically [music] it's if there are grieved people that maybe live by whatever project it is. I wouldn't say it's like 90%. I'm thinking [music] like 20% of the time that might happen. But it's hard to know because now you're you're inserting new things like conditional use permits. Um I'm trying to think of one. Oh, I know. Um and a good example would be like a group home above six. So you're doing a let's say it's an 8 unit group home and you would be the conditional use permit deciding entity on that. That could stir up some issues, some problems. neighbors might not be totally pleased with the outcome if you have voted approval and then but they still have that right to appeal. So that's then that that doesn't go away in the new ordinance. Um right now your recommendation goes to the council. So it just depends on how you feel that works and whether or not you think that's a good idea. I think it's maybe because it's only the 20% of the time that we see that appeal that we're thinking it might be kind of an extra step for people that's not necessary, but I don't know. That's something to think about. >> Yeah. And I I would add to that we we thought a lot about this conditional use permit thing and I I think it we should continue um to think about it. Um, but I think about what we choose to as staff to put on the consent agenda at the council and um what whatever gets pulled off the consent agenda. And so I would say at least 90% of the conditional use permits get put on the consent agenda. They get approved by the city council without any discussion. And all we've really done there is added 2 to 3 weeks to the applicant's time. Um, so I think we're comfortable with this again because there is still that opportunity. If you deny something, the applicant can appeal. If you approve something, the neighbors can appeal. But all of that said, I think that um we as staff have have talked about this a great deal that as much as we want to make this ordinance exactly perfect, we know that it will for sure not be. And probably the week after we adopt it, we'll think, "Oh my gosh, why? We didn't think of that." >> Yeah, we do that every week. Um, yes, we keep we keep pestering our uh consultant about one one more thing. One more thing. Um, but we firmly expect that um if if a ordinance is adopted in some way, we'll be back before you a year later with a list of things that we we think should be um changed. So this might be one of, you know, those things that we test out. >> Yeah. No, thank you. I think everything that um comes in front of the city to staff and um all of us, you know, is unique in its own right, you know. So um it's like you say, it's impossible to have a perfect, you know, ordinance that's going to just address everything perfectly. That's just not how it happens in the real world, perfect world. But we do have a process like you said, appeal and um I think we're we'd be in good shape with that. >> I think maybe we should um make that more clear maybe on the slide that we're doing here that we do have that appeal process. Maybe put a footnote on here to remind people. I mean that's kind of innate with we know that but the public doesn't know that. So okay, good improvement there. Commissioner Banks had reached out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Thanks, Chair. Um, I just wanted to say round of applause to uh the staff u the consultant that we worked with, the work group um and our community as well. You guys did a great job reaching out to um the residents and the businesses of city of Minnotonka. um feels like we got a lot of good feedback um through the various channels with the Minnotonka memo and the website and uh even the phone survey um which I never answered a few calls but um but just um the the outreach and the effort taken to um make sure everyone was aware and engaged and getting the information um timely um has been great. Um, I believe what you have come up with as as mentioned by Commissioner Brink, you know, may maybe it's not perfect. Um, be be hard to make anything perfect nowadays, but it definitely is um checks all the boxes. Um, I feel like it is modern. Um, and that was one of the goals I I remember us discussing in the beginning of the the workg groupoup process. Um, you know, I I'm a big fan of the the the term village center. I feel like it gives a um a sense of community when you're you know my my village center is Glen Lake and and so people will you know maybe feel like they belong more in certain um as they you know we have new residents that move in and new businesses that move in. Um there there's a sense of connection just from the use of the term itself. Uh so be great to see that go up on signs and and things like that throughout the areas if if that happens. Um but the way people um are engaged nowadays, the the with the remote work um and you know the multi-generational families that we're seeing more of and the the increase in uh ADUs um in the way that office spaces are seem like they're now downsizing more and and more efficient use of space but just don't need as the much space um as before. that this gives, you know, our residents and our businesses a lot of um good options to to adapt to the way people are living and and working today. So, um I look forward to seeing how this continues to progress. It really has come a long way and and I think it's a great job. Um, don't expect it to be perfect, but um, you know, really looking forward to seeing the change and how that will impact what we do as a commission and uh, and maybe take some of the burden off the city and council members um, because of how uh, we've made this a little bit more simpler for people to to understand what they can and can't do in the city. So, thank you. >> Anybody else? Commissioner Johnson >> on when are the you're going to have public hearings on this? How are they are the some of them going to come in front of the planning commission and if so when and then ultimately go to the city council. >> Yes. And in fact I'll jump back into the presentation. We had a couple more slides and that will kind of get to um that. So we we just wanted to highlight some of the public engagement that we've already done. Um Commissioner Banks it was a great segue to get into public engagement. So, we were at Summerfest both last year and this year. We did an online preference survey. We, as Julie said, we talked about that with the planning commission. Those were that was a self- selected group that um when we ran numbers really was not representative of our population as a whole. And so, that's why we hired Morris Leatherman to do a phone survey. Um they are the same they're the same uh company that does the phone surveys throughout our community. So they did a statistically accurate um uh survey uh and that this is all available online. We had all of these workg groupoup meetings. Now we have the Minnotonka memo that just came out. If you're a social media person, we've had some social media posts just encouraging people to go um to Minnitonka matters. Uh we've given presentations to DEI. Uh now this planning commission, we're going to sustainability later in the month. We have some direct emails going up later this month to our local businesses and nonprofits just to again make them aware of what's happening to ask them to provide feedback. We have a virtual meeting with um some developers who have done work in our community and a few who have not done work but we've met with before and then they just haven't done work [music] in our community. And so we're um going to give kind of the same presentation uh to them um next week and get some of their feedback. So um single dwelling developers, multi-family multi-unit developers, um commercial uh some we have some um retailers that we've invited. So hopefully that will be a good meeting. And then virtual office hours. Um I thought I had put in a slide here. We've already had four website. >> Oh, she's going to go to the website. Um, planning staff has been holding what we call virtual office hours where it literally is just a planner um waiting for someone to pop into the virtual meeting to ask us a question or give us a comment. Um the we have some that are during the day, we have some in the evening, and we have four more virtual um office hours coming up. They're on the Mitaka Matters page. All you need to do is click on we have one um >> that was already [laughter] >> uh next week we have one at um >> 6 to 7 >> and you just use the link. Hopefully this works and and join the meeting and there will be a a planner there. So we do encourage people to come to those >> and then >> oh one more thing let me just show one more thing about how to comment. >> Oh going back to show you on Minnotonka matters. Uh if you click on the zoning update project, you scroll down and there's a link that says public comments and you can um not you but your friends and neighbors um should leave uh whatever comments they would like to. If people ask a question, this is intended more as a comment forum. Um but if people have a question and they put their question here, we can get back to them. Um, so far this has been up for over a month and we have we have six only six [music] public comments thus far. Um, we're hoping that with the Minnitankka memo coming out again, people will be um, more aware. Oh, there's my virtual office hours link there. >> Um, and then we have tentatively scheduled uh, public actual public hearings. the beginning of the official process for public meetings. Um, all ordinances, whether it's a big ordinance like this or we're changing a few words, have to be introduced at the city council. Some communities call that a first reading of the ordinance. We call that an introduction. And the city council will then um refer the ordinance to the planning commission. they may give some direction on specific things they want the planning commission to dig into during the public hearings. Then we were we are planning on hosting two public hearings um for this project. We think it's a large enough uh project [music] um that um regardless of the number of people who may want to come to those we should have two opportunities um for people to come. I believe our consultant uh will be joining us for one of those two. um first meeting in October and your first meeting in November. Um city council consideration will really depend on how those public hearings uh go and um if we come up with things that we want to see as changes um to the ordinance during those meetings. So tentatively November 23rd, but that I would say that meeting is the most in flux as of right now. >> Yeah. So, I think when [clears throat] we put the schedule together, Susan and I talked about not condensing the hearings too much, that people have time to listen, digest, uh, understand what the changes are. None of this has been like in a real hurry. If if you've been on the zoning work group for the last year and a half, you know that things have been pretty methodical, pretty slow. And that's intentional because there's a lot to think about. I I think we take our our jobs all seriously to manage people's property and and be good stewards for the city. That's that's a really important job and you can't just do that in one meeting, right? You have to kind of iterate on what people are telling you and then get to a final decision. And so, um, if if you hear from people, they say, "Oh, I didn't know about the hearing." That's okay. Call in. Don't it doesn't matter. You don't have to be here. You can call on the phone. You can email us. You can comment online. So, there's a lot of outlets for people even if they can't be here physically in person and want to say their piece about whatever uh their opinions are. So, uh hopefully you agree that we've given enough time for people. Um, but again, as Susan said, if we we get to November 5th and things still are not feeling quite right to the planning commission, we'll take more time. There's no magic deadline. I mean, we have to move on to the comp plan. That's our magic deadline. But, um, you know, we understand that sometimes this stuff takes time. So, hopefully that helps. Commissioner Johnson. >> Wonderful. Commissioners, any other comments, questions, thoughts to share? No. Well, I'm I'm not shy about writing about our city staff and I a big fan and I appreciate all the work that you've put into it and all the work that uh all the uh other uh people have gotten involved and appreciate the efforts that you guys have gone into and and put into these changes. Uh I appreciate the introspection that you're offering to me. I think it makes a uh I think it continues to build uh the the quality of of life that the city is providing for people. I also think that uh it my hope would be is make things more efficient for staff and the whole process. To me that's just good government. So thank you all very much. To that uh are we ready for adjournment? May I have a motion to adjurnn? I'm just kind of scanning like are we good? No. Uh, Mr. Banks, >> I'll make a motion. >> I'll make [snorts] the motion that we adjourn. >> May I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Commissioner Shear. So, uh, motion Banks, second by Shear. Uh, [snorts] all those in favor say I. >> All those against say no. All right, motion carries. Have a wonderful evening. >> [music]