I've got I've got 6:30 so in the interest of time we will get started so tonight is Monday July 22nd 2024 this is a study session of the minona city council I will call this meeting to order and we will do uh introductions and I will start to my left Alicia Alicia gray devel manager for city of Julie commity director Green heiney City attorney Mike flunk city manager Paulo C city council member w three Rebecca sha council member W two Brad woron mayor KY kley Ward four paty Foster Bolton Ward one Kimberly Wilburn uh city council at large Mar Domin assistant city manager Sissa folk Senior Management coordinator lesie bar Ace intern and yes go ahead your name Sally Bressler um live on Crown Hill Road and I'm representing the motanka community housing team I'm David Allen I live in hiden Valley Road and I'm with Sally very good and then uh debal city council at large CA very good thank you so we've got um Mike and I talked today about our meeting tonight and we have an aspiration of um trying to get this all done about in a couple of hours ideally we'd be done at 8:30 so I've kind of got some some time stamps on that and I'll uh encourage people but with that um uh we have business items and it's a strategic Plan update and Mike I'll turn it over to you thanks Brad I'm just going to quickly hand it over to Sissa who will introduce uh tonight's topic and her and Julie wishnack will present and amh man okay sounds good um as we've done before we're continue the conversation on the Strategic plan refresh so continuing the conversation that we've done with Craig rap in April um we have talked through two strategic priorities so far and today we're talking about livable well plan development and as Mike said um Julie wish will go through the outcomes performance metrics and targets and as we're going through this conversation just keep in mind that we want to have our Focus narrowed um as we are doing this refresh and this should really be a three-year plan so things we can accomplish in three years Mike do you have anything to add oh yeah thanks for nice introduction I would just um add a couple things and so as we're going through the tonight and the next few meetings what we'll be doing at the end of the year is in culmination of all this bringing back to you the kind of the full plan as again we v through and hone in on the specifics I just really appreciate everyone's conversation on this uh again tonight we'll turn over to Julie to go through them I would just make note that with our six strategic priorities each one of those has three specific outcomes and so that's 18 items and so again you'll hear me say this it'll be a little bit repetitive but we'll have 18 really desired outcomes at the end of this and that's really I think as Sissa mentioned our real Focus the next three years is what 18 outcomes are we really trying to be strategic about so with tonight we'll talk about three as it relates to livable and well planned development I know it's hard to really hone in on three when you think about all the housing needs and all the um Economic Development opportunities so we do have separate Economic Development plans we have separate um remember we have separate work plans for each department we have other goals and priorities that that we um achieve but this is being really strategic in nature so just really kind of thinking about what are the three highest most important um directional items that we want to go with this with this category so with that let's just dive in and um turn over to Julie thank you thank you mayor council members thank you we have just go to the next slide please I think there should be a slide sure I have a slide Abracadabra wait there we are oops wrong there we go one more Bravo thank you Alicia is helping does oh it's not on hello there there we go all right uh so the original language in the well planned Community was a city with something for everyone um we actually deleted that language and offered balance CommunityWide interests and respect Minot tonka's unique features while continuing Community investment that's a strategic priority and then the desired outcomes I'll just go maybe line by line if that's okay mayor and then that sounds good maybe you'll give me feedback as we go rather than do them all um so the first one that and Devon I were matched up for this at the strategic planning workshop so we were having these conversations the first one was enhancing Vitality across the business sector focusing on large corporate businesses so um Deb since our conversation I thought about what exactly did we want and I think a lot of us have mentioned this connection to large corporations uh and so we added that language that's up for grabs it just seemed like something that uh we were really trying to connect with the net increase in number of businesses would be the performance metrics and also the estimated market value increase in that category of businesses so having some tangible ways to measure what we were doing and then the target would be net new businesses over a three-year period starting in 25 till 2027 and then um increasing the estimate market value about by a billion um that's quite a high bar but that is a three-year period And so um big goals but I think that's really the intention of this to stretch and try to do something uh quite um intense right zero loss of large corporate businesses in the region and we use the word specifically in the region because we do have movement of businesses and it actually if it's a movement within the region that still is okay um um maybe it's not minetonka only but and we've had recipients of businesses that way and also we've had exports of businesses to other communties but again as a region it's functioning and so I think we added that language on the end I'll stop with that line item if you have any thoughts or input all right Cil comments thoughts Rebecca you know at first I I was taken a little back by the large corporate businesses but and you know I reflected on it a lot and thinking about um Opus and office space and the major impact of losing something you know even just the UHD building being vacated is such a substantial Financial impact that then trickles down significantly so I really um I think this is good and I think it helps us meet all of the other goals in the plan or you know in the in the Strate strategic plan by recognizing that a lot of our Vitality comes from these large businesses so I'm I I zero notes okay other comments uh KY well it that kind of stood out to me um focusing on large corporate businesses um just was curious about the word does that leave small smaller businesses um is why could it be more of inclusive for all businesses versus large businesses it singles out to me it singles out large businesses right I think um what Rebecca was saying specifically is what I had in mind uh when we thought about this specific um issue again trying to be very focused on what we were talking about here that's not like we don't have programming for smaller businesses or have uh any kind of efforts for smaller businesses is that continues uh to be done doesn't mean we're not doing the business survey we're going to be doing that we're going to be hearing from people uh all the Outreach is the same but what is different here is you have a strategic uh plan to pay attention to what's happening with your larger Corporation so you don't end up with some of this this large office space being vacant um and vacated by large offices because that really can impact your general fund which then funds all of your other efforts so it's kind of a it's not like you're choosing it's I think what you're being strategic about thinking about the larger corporations because we've I would say in the past primarily kind of just like yeah they're fine kind of ignored you know I mean just kind of let them do their business so I think being more intentional about that might be something that's worthwhile but but not at the loss of other efforts that we're doing if that help what's consider a large business like I mean what how do you um Define large businesses like I mean does it have to be a uh what they bring in for income the amount of employees what's defining the large businesses I would say a large corporation would be anything above 500 employees that would be a large corporation we have a top 10 list uh that we watch that that's I would call a watch list okay um so there's about 10 that sit on that list other comments anyone other otherwise you know I'll I'll excuse me Deb go ahead yeah so I I just wanted to sort of respond because I understand ky's question and really you know I've been you know I work in downtown St Paul that is in desperate need of revitalization and you really see what happens when large companies um leave and um you know watching the tax capacity of different sectors in our in our taxes start sucking up the burden of um you know losing commercial value and so forth in within City boundaries and so to you know to remain a strong vital city um that's something that I specifically brought up in the group when we were doing our strategic uh planning workshop and and um you know thinking specifically of Opus and many you know we have so many Fortune 500 companies in minaka and with in the postco atmosphere um people not going to work you know we're really in danger of of commercial real estate just evaporating and I want to do what we can um to keep people you know coming to minaka to work and keeping those businesses here in minota because it really it doesn't just benefit the bottom line um say for rich people it actually takes tax burden off the average uh resident and and you know keeps our city vital so to me it's just sort of a like it is trickled down in a certain way but it it's also just you know sort of important for the financial infrastructure and the Vitality of the city and anyone else not not to dwell too much but you know I think this is somewhat unique to see a focus on large corporate businesses but I think given where we've been and um you know the last five years um um having focus on this not at the expense of our entire business Community but to say you know what these large businesses in minaka and and we are fortunate to have a number of you know um you know some of the largest companies in the country are headquartered in minaka and uh that's fortunate but then when you think about um all of the employees that live in the region not not just minaka but they live in Eden Prairie they live in Edina they live um they live in Hopkins they you know they live throughout the area but it's a key driver and to lose to to lose that um that base is really would really be significant and I think I think the example that Rebecca had of the um uhg headquarters building um uh being for sale uh because they don't need as much space they used to but if if if we lost United Health Group if if we lost Meda if we lost um Carlson companies if um you know it would it would have a huge impact on our community and so I think it's kind of unique to specifically highlight um large businesses and because they really are vital to the quality of life in mitaka and the West Metro and frankly the entire metro so I think it's um I'm supportive of that but with the understanding as KY pointed out that that doesn't mean we don't this is a focus area and it's a distinctiveness but that doesn't mean we don't care about our other businesses because we do okay so thank you that's helpful I'll move on to the next one uh just slightly changing the the statement here it's uh Rewritten to say increase the number of housing units affordable housing units in the city and there's a kind of a reason we took out variety and type and some of those other kind of descriptors um again when we hear and talk about affordable housing it's about all types of affordability you have a housing policy that talks about the kinds of diversity that you want so there's a lot of ways that you get this accomplished so we took out some of the words variety and type and just said all affordable you know make it simple make it focused it's all affordable that you care about and you're the purpose is increasing and then obviously you measure that by the number of portable units and we added the words um I should have deleted The Preserve because preserved is below so I'll just say added for that second uh box then 100% increase 100 unit increase in affordability below 80% median income over that 25 to 27 uh year time period so that threeyear time period so we can go back and look at some of the um goals that we have and how we met those goals but this is kind of generalizing our efforts on affordable housing so I'll leave it at that for discussion good comments on affordable housing in these ch changes anyone quick com yes yeah Paula excuse me think this is great you know that we're focusing and specifically have numbers and targets and things like that my only concern is is that I've heard from residents who are between 80 maybe 115% Ami you know kind of that little housing range and um so just see if there's way keep Ane on we have a couple 15 so just um I don't know if it has to be a specific goal or something here I know we're trying to limit but just would like to you know kind of be mindful that as well difficult for our young professionals got it excuse me uh Brown jump in I have is breaking up it's very hard to hear and if I that was Paula sorry sorry about that if you could just move your microphone just to Heir closer I think that might help and I was going to say d dab we have the dancing youngsters next door that's not helping uh probably the noise level but it's cute it's cute but they're very enthusiastic all right um other thoughts comments um Kimberly so I was going to um just mention sort of the other end of the scale and um again I don't know that we need specific numbers on there but as long that I want to make sure that we don't forget about deeply affordable housing as well 30% yeah yeah yeah thank you both extremes yeah exactly exactly well got it any other any other comments um you know go ahead Mike go ahead I just he counil comments I I do would to just be getting kind of clear in this process and you make comments we're not changing what's up here until unless you say we need to change this so we're mindful of what you're saying and yes and keeping track of that but what we're what we're saying is increasing the number of affordable housing units is a is a significant um intended outcome for the next few years and those are our um specific targets we're looking that doesn't take away from the things that are being said here but just making sure that right you want more metrics or different ways to measure things we need to be then we want that information got it good so if anyone has anything specific they'd like to add and then and then for clarity um Julie you did say um for the performance metric on this one the number of affordable uh affordable unit it's added period the or preserved comes out is that correct right because we have preserved below okay I think at first it was both together and then I'm like nah and I'll tell you why in a second and that's good I just want I want to be clear yeah we'll delete the second or the last word in the second box okay just added number of affordable units added and then our Target is 100% or 100 unit increase in affordable 80% below now that doesn't sound like much just FYI but if you look at if we're doing mixed income or we're doing a unit at a time that's that's a lot that's a lot of units so just keep that understood understood and you know to Kimberly's Point um not unlike the last one um we're focusing here on 80% median income and below that doesn't mean we start turning our back on you know 80 to 120 I mean we still have some specific programs homes Within Reach is one that I believe goes up to 120 and we have others a lot of the programming too programming so so yeah so it's it's like this is a a focus area but it's not at the expense of everything else good point fair so the last one is really about um totally changed this one Deb sorry uh we we had Clarity on proper balance of development and what was interesting about that um as we talked cersa and I and Mike met and and it was about how do you measure that it wasn't measurable and we weren't we were struggling with how to gain Clarity on how to deal with that as a desired outcome I think people feel that way I'm not saying that I'm not discounting that as an issue I think there's a lot of balancing that you all do as decision makers and it's hard and maybe you would like a path that leads you to an easy answer sometimes but I I just not sure that's measurable so I think open to hearing your thoughts about that so I added another one to really hone in on preserving our existing affordable units and support those households with additional programs and so the measurement the performance measurement of that is the number of units preserved um and also increase the number of households assisted and I'll give you an example so that would be like um the Town Home Project near Cedar Lake Road right we had a million dollars in of infusion to rehab 30% units um so that you could continue the affordability and so that would be an example of units preserved and um that's how we would track that and the goal for that three-year period would be at least 50 units Preserve from 25 to 2027 and it increased the number of households assisted by 10% so this is it says 150 units I'm sorry 150 units per Reserve I meant that okay good I'm with you I meant that it's higher than the number of new because I think you know we've been we're just coming off a new construction kind of massive overload right I mean I just don't think it's going to continue to be that strong so definitely preservation is a a focus area that we've talked about a lot but it's not something we've targeted and I think that's probably needed in this kind of next iteration of the Strategic plan so again Deb I'm sorry we totally changed gears on this one but open to hearing your thoughts and Deb I don't know if you have any comments well you know one of the things that that I mean Julie knows her business better than I do so you know I I don't I don't want to question it but um one of the things that has disappeared from this page is sort of um making variety a goal and also you know I think we were talking about sort of um not having you know we we build a lot of rental property um and not a lot of owned multifam um and so there's there's no there's no in uh incentive in our strategic plan for any kind of um Variety in development I think you know I TR you know I trust our planning staff and our developing staff to um be open to creative projects and um so on and so forth but there is you know we did take out in in the uh box above the variety um and we're kind of you know taking out any sense of balance between different kinds of development you know whether it's commercial or multif family or single family um and I think you know there are other people I don't want to put words in anybody else's mouth that are looking for different kinds of housing types that we don't build very much and you know I know some people are looking for density and so forth and just making sure that we're not just building stuff but there is a balance between all the competing interests in in ataka also having to do with green space and so forth so I just feel like that sort of um G silent here so I don't really know how to address that other comments Council anyone Kimberly I don't know how to address that either well I think your strategic priority definitely talks about that balance balancing act that you have to go through now it's whether or not I think what DB was getting at is does the does outcome support your strategic priority enough right so do you feel okay with the language do you feel like we should add some language to help strengthen that balance question or not and again I can't measure balance right measure that that's the the difficulty thing what what I might consider balanced might be different than what py considers balance and so that's that's subjective yeah Rebecca um I think I totally hear you know what Dub's saying I thinking back to kind of what Craig talked to us about and having something very quantifiable um that balance piece I think is harder to you know if we look at that the original language I think it's pretty difficult to um really be able to check that box you know if we're really looking at how our report's going to come out when we're we're looking at how we're doing on this progress I think it' be tough so um and I I think that we really need to give this attention on um preserving assist existing affordable housing and I think that um touches on that owner occupied piece and gives us an opportunity there to do you know consider what we're doing and keep doing the good things that we're doing in regards to preservation of of existing units and I think there's may be some opportunities there that we haven't thought of so I feel pretty good about this um and I think some of that other stuff's going to come in the conversation later when we talk about what we're going to be doing with the zoning right any other comments anyone you know I'm just going to throw a couple of quick comments you know I don't think we've used the term um variety actually very often we've used diverse housing types is my recollection and we use that terminology not because we wanted such diverse housing types we felt that that was a tool to help move us toward getting more affordable housing and you know varying price points and things like that so I'm comfortable with this because I think by putting the metrics against um delivery of preservation of um um increasing affordable housing units it it says it more explicitly and I think that um we're we're still interested in diverse housing types but that is really a tool to get to the end and the end is laid out in the in the Target here we want more affordable units we want to preserve more units and affordable units I think I think this is more measurable but I don't think it causes us to be any less committed to a diversity of housing types which has always been which has long been part of our our strategic plan and our objective so I'm I'm comfortable with it even though it doesn't say it thoughts Alicia Julie no we just thinking about I mean I think some of the balance that Deb was talking about I mean obviously we don't just give you when we give you information we don't just say oh here's our affordable units right we say here's how many at 30 here's how many at 50 here's 80 here's owner here's rental I mean we give you the full kind of reflection of your work right here is just specifically how many units can you produce and and can you get to 100 in that next time period so I think I think that's you're trying to balance and you do that every time you make a decision but what is it that you're trying to get to which is the number of units okay y I think you're right so I think it's good any Deb any or anyone um any any last comments because we are I'm not doing a very good job as a timekeeper it's a half an hour I I hear what everyone's saying and I do agree that this is more measurable and I just you know it was just an observ that certain things go silent and so then the onus is on staff and us to you know pay attention to the things that are implied and not spelled out so um I agree that this is more National good point yeah I think we'll pay attention to that checks and balances on when we do these projects you know just making highlighting that dub to make sure we're honing in on that issue sorry com just real quick I think what we also do is when we as I said earlier we'll bring this complete package back to you by the end of the year I'll make a note that perhaps even in that definition where it says balance CommunityWide interest and respect Etc perhaps we can weave in the word variety or housing types because I think that is the goal regardless I because we're saying we want to hone in on affordable housing units but that also does mean variety whether it's variety meaning the style of the development uh what it might look like variety and also variety sense of whether it hits a certain threshold of 30% Ami or 60% Ami or 80% Ami so variety can mean I think a lot of different things too but I think we all acknowledge that we do look for a variety then not just affordable housing at one particular price point so I we'll look at ways a way to maybe weave that in to the definition other just just just to get back to sort of the other half of what the balances has to do unique sort of natural features and not just you know building on every square inch to to achieve goals I mean it really is about balancing CommunityWide interest and and and so that's also what I've been concerned about but it's in the priority it's there so I just don't want to lose sight of it because that the the measurability of the preservation of green space is not anywhere in a desire outcome or performance metrics it's all about number of units and so um fa good point thanks de all right any any last comments otherwise we will move on so and uh Alicia and Julie did you get from us or do you I have an intro Mike well I think go ahead well no go ahead Mike if if you want to intro intro the housing update or if you want to just turn over Julie up to you yeah let's turn over just 30 seconds real quick so appreciate Julie and Alicia's work on this I know Council there's a lot of material in there that will cover us why we going to jump into it we're going to talk about a number of number of Housing Programs we'll talk about to your mouth I can't you're it's very garbled sorry dab I turned it I accidentally had it off so thank you how's that all right thank you sorry about that I'll just start over uh so just a quick intro we'll turn this over to Julie because we've got about an hour or so worth of probably material and discussion uh hopefully you've had a chance all of you had a chance to really look at all the information that Julie and Alicia prepared for tonight's discussion I think I mentioned to both our two newest council members that usually every July this is all things housing so we do try to cover a lot of territory here this evening and so couple of the U couple things we'll touch on is certainly the Zone Co and the zoning update and we'll have some decisions on Direction on that and then we'll talk about homelessness and perhaps where that stands and some of the work staff has been doing behind the scenes and get your feedback on homelessness an exciting I I call internal dashboard so hopefully you had a chance to in the in the supplemental staff report click on uh really neat yes here's a professional term for the night neat um there you go neat neat um very comprehensive uh approach to looking at all things housing so really a really good dashboard there pulling together I think Julie and Alicia will cover that number of questions along the way so with that let's turn over to Julie so we can dive in and and have a really good conversation okay and we'll start with the Harvest let's talk about zoning and right uh so back in April you had the diagnostic report if you recall um there was a lot of information kind of contained in this report it had um if you recall kind of the comparison of whether or not your goals were met in each section of the code and they kind of highlighted things you should think about changing I mean that was the whole purpose to try to get kind of a road map of things that they thought um as a city where your zoning code may or may not be successful in meeting the goals that you set out for yourself so and that goes from everything from environmental to housing production to whatever um and so in that report um you know we thought okay the next step is to try to actually get the code changed and there's a couple of different approaches that we talked to the Consultants about and so we have option one two or three and really option one is just rewriting the entire Code full rewrite not one stone unturned and we're going to redo um as you remember the presenter at the work session talked about how every so often this happens the city goes through this kind of evolution it's been since the mid 80s since a full rewrite was done and so uh in that it definitely would talk about the goals it would talk about what are barriers in our code it would talk about um the issues that users have now which is sometimes it's you know pieces of it are here and some of it's over here the graphics are outdated you know some of that stuff would get corrected in a full rewrite but you'd also have fairly large engagement so you'd have focus groups you'd have public engagement you'd have study sessions for the council and Planning Commission most likely to meet and talk about certain issues um public meetings public education all of that's going on while you rewrite this over one year to a year and a half that's about the estimate that we're um our consultant has provided and the second option really it's just specific rewrites of sections but a full reorg of the code and so that is another option just a little less effort um in this particular option but you're not doing a full rewrite you're picking certain sections you want to focus in on um but the whole code would be reorganized and you would say to me isn't that less effort isn't it more less expensive actually it's not because it's just as much work in terms of Engagement and trying to get people to understand what you're changing and why you're changing it and get some feedback so really if you look at where the effort is it's probably process that is so heavy in terms of the cost the rewrite itself is being done by a an attorney and then also other Consultants who are specifically trained in zoning code creation so you're paying a lot for expertise but it also is a lot for processing both the first and second options you have a option three is really just specifically writing uh a couple of sections and really um you would not have any reorganization happening in the code and this is a little bit unknown because it really depends on how many you choose if you just said I want to rewrite the whole residential section okay well that's one option and you can just rewrite that and it's not as much public process probably it doesn't take as long that sort of thing so those are your choices um again dealing with the budget in August you would see depending on how you kind of lean tonight about this issue those cost would be spread over a 2-year period so it would be between 75 and 100 for those two options per year for 25 and 26 then remember after that then we're rewriting the comp plan same kind of numbers we're talking about for that process two-year process for the comp plan so you roll right into the next kind of they don't overlap it's they roll they roll from one to the next one year to the next yeah 27 is about when we would start writing the comp plan for the next iteration so I will stop at this point because the question to you is kind of which option are you really uh focused in on we don't have a specific preference um we know that in applying the code it would be nice to rewrite it we also know it's expensive so we get it we will deal with whatever um you feel is necessary but um open to hearing feedback so Council questions or comments or both um Rebecca my question is maybe just backing up a little bit I mean the idea is we have these recommendations from Zone Co and there's more conversation to have about that and there a number of things that this Council may have an appetite may come from the public process to say we not only we're not just doing this to get it better organized we're doing it to determine what we need what changes we need to make to advance it get it better organized and more user friendly that would kind of be the purp am am I analyzing that correctly and so there I think in in kind of reviewing the comments that came in this afternoon this idea that we're going to know today what changes are going to come out of this process and we're going to tell you that tonight that's not the purpose of this it's really we've got to engage the public and we've got to synthesize using the Zone C report to kind of determine that in addition to the cleaning up process or the organizational right I think even to be more specific if if you decide to go any of these routes and it doesn't really matter which route you go there is a procedural step with the council to say okay this is the option you chose here's the contract here's the pro process layout so you you have you can kind of forecast well these are the check-ins this is how many public meetings this is what's happening so that's all laid out for you in a contract and then you would approve a contract in a process at the same time if you choose one of these options so if you don't um if you don't choose any of these you decide to and that is an option of course you can do as is and not spend any money and not update your code and try to make minor changes that we can do in house but I'll tell you what we're a little backed up on ordinance writing so um I think you know hiring somebody to do it is the best way to handle whatever you want to do so other other questions Council um uh Kimberly so to to sort of follow up on Rebecca's question and make sure I understand um so we pick one of these options it when we uh sign the contract with Zone Co is I'm I'm wondering when is it where Council will be able to give input about like the specific recommendations that zono made and things that maybe we would like to see that they didn't include or vice versa right yeah so what you would do is if you let's just say you picked option two you would specifically say the sections you wanted to rewrite when you do the contract and that's that's where you would say that now in section or option one little bit looser um maybe you talk to the public first you kind of see what people are feeling like and then the council weighs in just depends on how you want to go about that but I would propose something to you a process to follow and then you can react to that and see if that's enough or if you want to be more um specific about what you want done so it just depends on how you want to handle that but normally it would come through in a contract and it would lay out the whole process and how this would work um when you would say what needs to change when okay other other question just add to that and I'm not TR on repetitive but I think to what Julie's mentioning even more specific is with with that contract that would come forward we would a as staff we would ask them to prepare that contract the scope of services so like with any contract they're going to lay out exactly what their scope will be and then the process by which they're going to uh Implement that and so you'll see that and we time frame what that and time frame correct and time frame and so you as a council will see that when that contract comes forward we'll lay that out for you we'll work with Zone Co on preparing a contract but we you know follow a pretty typical process that we use for public engagement you'll see that and then if if there are tweaks that you want to see in that process that you want to have more Council input at different touch points throughout the process maybe council's at the end or in the middle beginning end middle I think that all can be part of the scope of services that would be outlined in the contract and you have that that control um Paula did you have yeah I was hoping you could help me understand understand some of the timing in this and I'm sure there's a good reason but I'm just as a new member um hoping to understand um we have a comp plan rewrite that's coming in a few years and so can you explain or help me understand the logic of having the zoning before that versus after that or concurrently sure right wouldn't you write your comp plan first and then do your Sony code right I I don't know yeah I'm sure there's a reason so yeah absolutely um the 2050 plan of the Met council is actually not even out for digestion yet so um the the population projections just came out um employment uh projections just came out and until that gets adopted and solidified by the Met Council cities don't write their comp plan because we don't know what we're abiding by there's no Regional guidance at this point for the next evolution of plans that will come and by 2027 we'll have that I think though what's happening is there's a pressure to update your zoning codes to kind of prepare for some of those changes that might be inevitable maybe it's the lot size issue it's density it's whatever whatever issue you're you know kind of hearing about so I think that's I would say yeah it would make more sense to do the comp plan first and then do a Zing ordinance later but it pressures are such that we need to move forward sooner if we're going to and there's no way to write a comp plan right now without the region being in full adoption of the regional plan okay so it's kind of thanks for helping yeah timing is a little off I would say I would agree with you and we could revisit the zoning after after we do the comp plan we could make not a full rewrite I wouldn't but like actually we do that anyway um and so we do that like for instance that's how the r1a zoning District came into effect because because of the discussions during the comp plan the council talked about a different smaller lot size r1a came into fashion at that point the update to the zoning code was done after the comp planine was adopted so yeah exactly now they just chose to write they they chose a third option um after that um because they didn't want to deal with the whole code at that time right so other questions or comments well if we're weighing in on a preference I would I would go with option one option two doesn't make any sense to me if we're paying the same amount of money let's let's do the whole thing you know um before I Venture an opinion um the although I agree with what Kimberly said um in terms of yeah they're they're the same so um um option one seems more attractive than option two for that reason but but I can't really answer the question in terms of option three because do we feel that there are parts of our zoning code that need particular attention and are there parts of our zoning code that we think well we're in a pretty good spot you know I mean because I don't really have a good sense for that and um and and I'm sure Zone Co um has some opinions but then also are there are there any gold standards out there um in terms of zoning Cod codes that we we would aspire to as we consider um as we consider the options before us so answer your first question are there areas of improvement that that we're right I mean we you know we do a pretty good job of housekeeping and changing you know I mean Karine stays pretty busy in her team she always sends me notes this has to on on updating are updating and doing we we frequently approve housekeeping changes because things State Law changes we get up and subdivision ordinance and the so I would say we've we've done a pretty fantastic job on all things environmental I mean I don't know that a code like this has been updated as many times as we've done on all things environmental so I don't think that needs a lot of work although there's tension on the tree ordinance I know that I can feel that I hear it um but I think the things that aren't totally solidified are we had the Southwest Light Rail overlay District we also have the planned I 394 overlay District those two districts could be elevated a little bit as Light Rail comes on board and this would be perfect timing for that to happen so I would say light rail needs to be in mixed use and the the kind of Standards around that um we have enough teeth in our ordinance right now to deal with that but it could I I would love to see an update on that um 394 traffic number need to be updated that sort of thing and that's something that could come with a total Rite too okay thank you are there other questions or comments thoughts second question though oh um is there gold standards there some you know really minetonka really yeah well you know I'm not I'm not I mean it's certainly not in Minnesota but there might be you know there's it's a big country out there it depends on what it is you know I I really do think that people look toward us for Environmental regulation um there are some cities that have gone more form based um as a planner and an implementor I'm not such a fan of form base I think a lot of people think it works good but it it I've seen in action it doesn't work as good as people want it to so um and no offense was intended with my question no but I mean the Denver area you know we tend to look at ordinances in that area because of Light Rail also the West Coast we often look at things in Washington just to because they tend to lead with a lot of edgier ordinances that sort of things so we look toward the especially the transit stuff so okay thank you m so Council um any more comments that you'd like to make or talking about these options um what are you thinking Rebecca oops I'm sorry go ahead py I'm sorry just want to go go back to the whole comp plan plan versus zoning rewriting this um so if if we do all these things for $200,000 over the next couple of years and then they come out with you know then we're going to start doing a comp plan um can we change the zoning then absolutely yep so then that seems to me to be redundant and that would go that would go that would mean we would do option one and then after we um when we're doing the comp plan we would go to option three because then that would chop it up right do you know I it depends on your perspective I think it depends on how quickly you want to change things I think that's the the question you have to ask yourself do I want to wait for the comp plan to be written to get a full rewrite totally within the realm of possibilities but that's going to elongate right you can change specific sections but does that section work with everything in your code that it becomes a little choppier and again very doable but just you have to think about what's more important to you and I can't answer that for you right I want to if it's going to be if you're saying it could be redundant can we wait to do the um doing the full rewrite until after the comp plan is written because absolutely to me it would seem like if it's going to be redone there's more work so why wouldn't we just wait to get it right as we say the first time pressure yeah that's the only thing that's causing this discussion not to totally um make everybody's eyes crossed but you know having been a close part of the comp comp plan process um one I I trust that staff's got enough of a finger on the pulse to be able to do this in the in an opposite sequence so I don't have a concern about that um however it feels like it's something that could be done in conjunction you know as we address something I mean is there a efficiency that could be gained by doing some of the public engagement together because we do so much public engagement for the comp plan um maybe this is just too much and maybe it's too confusing for residents but it seems like maybe there would be some Financial efficiency and efficiency from because I have no doubt that there are folks myself included that would like to see some of at least option three happening right soon MH if we wait I mean let's be clear the comp plan process starts in 2017 we will not approve it until close to I mean 2027 close to 2030 we whoever the Wii is that's here at that time so then we're we're talking if we wait right so to me that's that's not going to cut it I don't think um so my inclination one is to go with option one because I think it's cleaner I think there's um I think if you do option three what you're doing is creating a lot of tension repeatedly you deal with one thing and you kind of address it and then you move and there's a lot of conversation and engagement which is good but can also be very stressful then you move to your next thing and you repeat that again and I think if we're talking about a full we want to address the whole zoning code let's address it let's just rip the Band-Aid off then to drag this out and re and think as great of a job as everybody here has done this zoning code and if we if we look at what zon Co has said is old and and in some places kind of cobbled together so this gives us an opportunity okay let's start again yeah so my only question I guess I'm leaning towards option one and I would feel okay about considering it wrapp considering wrapping it in to the comp plan process but that still feels like kicking the can down the road a little far to me could I'll I'll just add my perspective the if you need to have um something different or enhanced for the Southwest Light Rail remember that that is supposed to start operating in 20127 so you don't want uses to start developing a lot Ong the line which they already are um and then be coming in after the fact because then you're just dealing with lawful non-conforming uses you want to get ahead of the game on the things that you know need to be addressed so that would at least um suggest option three if there are specific things but the other advantage of having the entire plan Rewritten even though or the code Rewritten even though coming before the comp plan is because these codes develop over time if you go through that code you will be able to I mean if if you had the history that some of the staff do they would say this was this development that caused us to rewrite this little part true this was this development that caused us to do this and that's why it ends up being cobbled together and you also lose some of the staff knowledge by the fact that it has been cobbled together over so many years if you go through this process now and you have it completely Rewritten when you come to your comprehensive plan everybody that's on staff is going to be very familiar with everything in the code and they bring that into the comprehensive plan process so then if you need to do after your comp plan done is done you need to come back and and clean up things they already have that knowledge of everything that's in the code it's going to feel less cobbled because they have that knowledge but that's just my perspective thank you other other questions or comments anyone would like to make Deb um yeah so actually um bin uh just kind of uh articulated a lot of kind of what I was thinking um and I you know there's always the part before the horse or the Egg egging chicken um conundrum but I do feel like the do redoing our zoning it sort of provides definitions for things that I think um if there's Clarity in our code that's applied to the comp plan not necessarily the other way around and so I you know just I think there can be a lot of clarity provided that will help guide the comp plan and we've always been able to change zoning no matter we can always change zoning no matter when we do our cop plan um you know we just we we do it not frequently but but you know it's not an unheard of occurrence so I actually I I'm sort of um I don't appreciate the the bill but I feel like in for a penny and for a pound we might as well I I really feel like we need to do it right and um I think that by doing a full rewrite that we sort of press a reset button where everything is refreshed um there's a holistic approach I think organized in a way that makes more sense um you start peeling away to kin's point those little historical tweaks that were you know sort of site specific and get more to holistic approach towards our zoning um understanding those his some of that historical context so um while I I don't really relish the the bill I think it's all in all a better approach and I agree with Rebecca that it's I feel like it'd be kicking the can down the road sort of to the detriment of the cop plan and to kin's point of some of the bigger um considerations like sou Light Rail coming online and all of the development around there if we don't start addressing some of this stuff so that's my um General um drift I guess about option one so we we've got we got we still got more housing stuff to consider so um I'm hearing um that there's a general um desire to go with option one does anyone want to differ with that or if that's indeed the case we'll move on to the next item um but but I want to make I I don't want to cut anybody off but I do want to be mindful of time so anyone concerned about option one uh a full rewrite um and um I think Kimberly said it well well if option one and option two cost the same and take the same amount of time aren't we better off the full rewriting I'm kind of a bargain shopper so that's that that's not the sole reason but I think it makes good sense any any other comments okay so the next steps on the zoning will be will come up to your budget meeting so it'll be added to the budget and uh um then the next step after that is to get the contract ready for the council to consider with all of the kind of layout of the process and um public process okay if we would have picked option three and it was unknown then we wouldn't have to talk about at the budget meeting right point point I would think of another process so to follow all right very good all right so everyone good with that um I'll turn it back to Julie keep moving so the next thing is uh the homelessness encampment policy we're not exactly following the order of the the report but if you have questions about other things in the report just let us know after we get through some of the highlights because I know we need to get through these three things and then uh we can talk about other steps so go for it sure all right I will be respectful of your time thank you for uh having me tonight um I wanted to give an update on the homelessness encampment policy as you know um kind of since Co staff became more aware of homelessness as a eneral issue in Suburban areas um we didn't feel that some of the services that were provided at a county level were really serving minetonka residents and he and families um in the way that we would like to see them serve so we spent a lot of time trying to understand homelessness in the suburbs and we've had come to the council to ask for some assistance to assist with homelessness so we have this partnership with his house foundation that really helps kind of as a first point of contact intervention for homeless um homelessness in our community um in addition to that so that was kind of like step one uh we spent a lot of time working with our internal processes so getting together with um PD Social Services um our school districts uh various other agencies to figure out how to best serve this population and we've had a lot of success in developing um processes for how to kind of intake homeless folks and then get them the resources they need in a timely manner um I will say that this is this is a new approach for a sub suburban community to be kind of venturing into this realm it's generally held by the county and um we're leading these efforts in terms of suburban communities so um I think that's something to be proud of as a community um out of the homeless work group we've also had uh the opportunity to create a dashboard that allows us to quickly respond when there's a homelessness case reported so if py or one of our staff is out and they notice something we can go on an app and uh report a case and then we all get a message that says okay who's handling this what do we need to do what's the response and we're able to deal with um quickly with these cases within like a matter of hours so it's been a great tool that we have like I said as a resource internally to work to solve these homelessness um issues so going through all the different kind of spectrums of homelessness the final piece is really looking at should we develop a homelessness encampment policy or ordinance to help us determine what the steps would be um in the future if we run into um times when we have uh encampments in the city so that is what our main question is for you today so we as the report said we haven't experienced um larger encampments but we're looking to proactively address if it should happen um there's a couple things that are kind of happening in the background there's a US Supreme Court case that was recently um issued a decision and that was in Grants Pass um Oregon um they have a large number of homeless population and encampments in that community and they had um created an ordinance that made sleeping in a public space a civilian citation and that ordinance was challenged in a lawsuit and um um the 9th District Court of Appeals held that the or ordinance violated the eth Amendment prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment so um based on that argument it's really unclear how others communities can um address this issue moving forward so we're kind of in this waiting period to see how various ordinances or polic es um can be implemented in local communities oops so essentially just that Grant's Pass issue was basically an anti- camping ordinance correct and that was used to which we have too right okay y yes so there's um other ways to address um these types of concerns um we have our Outreach that we do now um but there's other Lo cities have adopted policies um that go more in depth on how to handle these situations so well and we we have an internal policy uh the police department has an internal policy but I think this is the point of this policy would be to make it more holistic as a city yes so and scotus actually did decide inside that case did it not yes go ahead yes um the slide was outdated I think it might have been based on something that was prepared a while ago but in your report I believe the staff report is current it reflects what the court decision was right now and basically yeah the outcome was kind of criminalization right of the camping the camping ordinance was supported by the Supreme Court right exactly right they said that City had the authority to adopt an ordinance like that and it did not violate the eth amendment that's right yeah so this was a right so the question kind of before the council is just you know do we want to work further on this do we want to talk about an ordinance or a policy um obviously the policy doesn't have as much strength in in terms of enforcement an ordinance would take on um a different kind of you know kind of control but the the idea is that get ahead of it before it actually happens that's the goal of of what we're talking about here and again it doesn't mean that we don't have procedures we already have internally a procedure but how to get everybody on the same page about how that's going to be handled so Paula actually yeah so if I'm I just want to make sure I'm clear on this so by having an ordinance that would allow us instead of you know know just immediate criminalization it would allow us to in ordinance Place uh Outreach as a stepbystep process rather than perhaps later in the future tiet an immediate citation or jail or fine right and so by doing this I just wanted to clarify that right that's we're looking to avoid criminalizing or some future iteration of a council criminalizing um homelessness or people experiencing homelessness right without having the Outreach measures that we already put in place as policy we want to put them formally into ordinance is that correct right and I think the the biggest examp and again I just want to distinguish a policy versus ordinance so for instance we have a policy about how to deal with nuisance ordinances right there's all these rules about not rules but guidance for City staff about how we approach nuisances the nuisance is an ordinance right the violation of the ordinance that's that's defined but the policy helps direct how you get there so either way um we're just asking for some guidance if you want to pursue this okay Kimberly um so first I want to commend staff for having developed these internal policies that the and um uh that they're working with I would say it makes sense to have written policy I don't know if it necessarily needs to be an ordinance but I mean I could be convinced um uh just even you know if someone if you get a call from a resident and they want to know hey what's the procedure then if we have something written we can say well first we do this and so I think it makes a lot of sense to have a written at least a policy potentially an ordinance um full disclosure I signed on to an amicus brief in the grants Grants Pass case um so supporting the plaintiff so not thrilled with the Supreme Court decision and um because I mean I understand the the reason that the Supreme Court gave but this is criminalization of homelessness they didn't pass this ordinance because residents were camping in the Parks it was passed specifically to to make to not have homelessness in their city and rather than addressing the root causes of homelessness it's just we don't want to see it we don't want to deal with it go somewhere else I cannot get on board with that so I would not support any sort of policy where that's what we do got it thank you other comments Kim KY for me um I would support a policy but not an ordinance um far as the criminalization of um being homeless um I think that's barking up the wrong tree for me um if you get a call that someone's homeless whether it's ordinance in place or a policy in place we wouldn't we do the same steps or we wouldn't I mean we have the program with his his house so in my mind this should be already happening so why do we need to put an ordinance in place if we have this program in place already that's supporting that's supposed to be supporting people if we're getting these type of calls yeah Julie one you only approved a pilot program with his house it's not a permanent program so okay that's one issue um we're going to ask you to extend their contract and continue to use the money you've set aside so we're going to do that I think are we doing that at the next couple weeks in a couple weeks so you'll have that for you and the second issue is that while we have internal ways of handling things you haven't publicly kind of come out and said how you're as a city wanting to handle this and so it's really kind of that public facing this is the way we're going to handle this in the city and everybody understands what the council wants so that if and when this happens that you all are on the same page as a city council and you're not questioning how perhaps Mike as city manager is handling this internally from an operational perspective so if you all are on the same page and you adopt a policy that means that's how we're operating and and it just clears clears the air for everybody to know how we're going to go about this and I do think what I heard as well is um we do have a homelessness um effort to help individuals but this is more of when we have groups of people that are um all in one area encampment is more than one and it's how do we address when people have camped out and they don't want to leave essentially or don't want assistance either yeah you know I this is a real dilemma and those of you that haven't had it happen in your ward don't I mean we don't have an encampment but I've had some homeless issues and it is it's really a dilemma um and the City Works really hard to get services and sometimes people and and and this is not you know an excuse I mean it's a real thing that people decline the services and you are left in a little bit of a conundrum and you know I will tell you that bwell Park is this close I think to having this issue um it worries me a lot and so I have some thoughts and we're not talking about that you know I I have very strong feelings against criminalization but also think we do not want to be handling these as one-offs we really want to have some consist y because you don't look like more of a jerk without your act together by handling things one way over here and then another way over here and and it doesn't look like you're meeting um out your consequences in a consistent way and that's probably the biggest problem that we could have so I'm not where I'm I don't have any ideas on how we do it but I certainly think we need to do it it you know if I if I may I I agree I think we all agree that we don't want to criminalize homelessness homelessness is homelessness is a tragedy and we want to we want to work at solving homelessness not not criminalizing it but at the same time we need tools in the toolbox um because I mean we've you know maybe all of us have gotten calls you know about people panhandling at street corners and people don't like that Min tanka and it's as long as they're on public land it is we have no right to interfere and uh the public does not like to hear that they think well we don't want that in our community but but people have the right to do that and homelessness is a tragedy and I think we I'm very proud of the fact that we um we have a process and we have a system and we have a way of getting people help but when I read the strib um about the challenges of encampments in the City of Minneapolis and we hear about about the social problems that exist in those encampments people don't want to leave because they don't want to go to a shelter they don't want help they want to they they want to do what they want to do they um there's fentanyl there's guns there been murders um there you know just enormous social problems and without tools in the toolbox where you know the first thing is to provide help the first thing is to connect with the county that I mean we have a process where we demonstrate as much compassion and care to help people as we can but then we get to these people who have deeper problems or say you know I don't want I don't want help and I have the right to be here and I'm going to be here and I'm gonna shoot up and I'm and by the way I've got a gun to defend myself I don't think we want that in minaka either and I think we have to have the nerve to have an ordinance that criminalizes these things after all else has failed and so I don't want to criminalize um um homelessness but but I think that I want to be prepared so that if we do have an encampment at Burwell Park if we do have an encampment at Lone Lake Park um or or um in in any of our larger Parks or small Parks I mean we have to have the tools and we have to demonstrate that we are going to deal with this issue with compassion and provide Solutions but when those Solutions are are refused and there is a risk to the public and a risk to the people in that encampment we need the ability to do something that's my personal personal belief it's not turn you into a criminal first it's you are choosing to be criminalized because you've refused all other interventions to me that's a type of ordinance that I could support so I'll throw that out in any comments well I will just say that in the example you gave that there there you listed criminal activity that had nothing to do with where the person was located because if they're if they're doing drugs I'm assuming it's not they don't have a prescription probably don't have a permit for that gun um so those are other I mean those are things that could be dealt with good point by the police by the police yeah yeah so just to I'm sorry sorry it's okay pardon me we get all wrapped up here forget to look at you on the screen I just wanted to mention that um I agree with I I agree with all the comments about not criminalizing and I I I'm somewhat in line with some of the comments that um the mayor just made and I will say that I work in downtown St Paul in City Hall in the belly of the beast in the middle of our capital city and um homelessness has so many um just brings so many challenges the challenges that the mayor talked about and also real challenges about keeping a city vital and trying to attract people to engage in Commerce and Daily Business and the things they need to do because when you go when I walk to my office from my car or as I drive you know to where I park my car you know there really are encampments there are a lot of tents along the the sidewalk and it it right by Excel Center and I understand why the people are there but to the mayor's Point um you can't run a city with homeless people in tents on your sidewalks and if they refuse help [Music] um you know we need we need those tools in the tool box and I think that we need at least a written policy to to Rebecca's point about just being consistent and compassionate and solutions based and um you know I think the consistency in having a plan and not dealing with oneoff so that you know sort of it's understood where the city stands on certain things and also something that we can all get behind and keep our city vital while providing those those vital resources that people that are really living on the edge need um to make it so I just wanted to um say I'm I'm definitely in favor of at least a written policy other other comments and and staff I don't know if you have enough Direction um so the goal tonight is is just to say yes the conversation yes and I hear yes I'm hearing yes I hear a little bit more on policy side so we'll start there and if you feel like you have an ordinance that needs to be adapted we'll we'll talk about that when we do the policy so start a policy and then we'll yeah and I was just going to ask that question if I may I mean you know if we could do it a bit iteratively um so that so we've got our ducks in a row start with a policy if we need more than a policy um um then we have the ability to enact that but you know I mean I think we all agree I don't want to put PE words in people's mou but homelessness is a problem that we want to help solve and we want to get people the help that they need because we care about people in our community and it's not just people who live in nice houses we care about everyone and and our goal with every homeless person in minan is to get them housed because so many problems go away if people have housing so all right does that keep the direction excellent thank you for the discussion I know those are really two hard hard things to talk about they think Julie can we talk just uh Clarity on timing um just with we' got a big word FL and so again just clarify I have a deadline in my head but do you have a deadline I don't have a deadline I I just wanted I would just reiterate like the what's been developed so far I think appreciate your recognition of the work that saf has done with our current situation um they have been what I would call one-offs in the sense it's um when we get calls it's been for an individual or an individual family where we haven't had like it's been two or three or four or five um individuals in one location but in taking those phone and so we've been effectively dealing with those um I've had phone calls where people have report of that and then do follow up with the question what if this turns into something bigger and so that's what we're looking to address here's been more Forward Thinking in terms of as noted by staff looking forward looking to the future of what if that were to happen and what would we do when that would happen or if it would happen and so from a timing perspective I would say end of year is a good goal for us um you know obviously the the sooner the better but you're not suffering for lack of things to do right now to do no so I'll just say by the end of the year we'll we'll probably have something done and and I think just add a one little comment to this too is that I think a policy a Citywide consistent policy is important because I would not want to start having problems and having them be handled you know quickly in one Ward and not another or another part of the city oh it was right by rale boy did they jump on it but when it was elsewhere boy nothing happened I mean I think we need consistency because this is an important issue and I think that's what you're talking about but but I think there's a lot of unintended consequences with the with oneof I think we really have to develop some consistency all right awesome we'll go into the dashboard now and so this is kind of a free flowing part of the meeting meeting um this dashboard uh was created I have to give a lot of credit to Kendall and Alicia for organizing this you know when you have crazy ideas and then somebody actually executes what your crazy ideas that's what happened here so we're excited to see this and really the intention of the dashboard is not it wasn't really made to be like public on the website or whatever it's really for you all to understand all of the work that's going on in housing in one place and and I'll tell you keep this link handy we'll keep updating it we'll keep improving it we'll uh add different tabs that sort of things so you can always have access to this I know you're asked housing questions constantly I know that you're asked about numbers you're asked about policies you're asked about what we're doing about this issue or that issue this is just keep going here because you'll find any question you have about housing here so if you can go to the tabs all right and the only thing I want to we give you community de demographics hopefully that's helpful um we try to Source all the data that we provide you here so anytime it's updated to we'll go ahead and update the charts um let go to housing uh there's racial demographics housing demographics is the next tab this was something that Alicia and I had created some time ago um to help explain the type of house and then all the different programming that you have to address the type so just to help you with this graphic the bottom half is ownership and the top half is the rental market and they're actually we're trying to make some spatial relationships too how much of your ownership is actually affordable and how much of your rental is Affordable where are your housing policies effective more on the rental side than on the ownership side what's effective on the ownership side well you have your HRA loan programs you have your CBG loans you have your homes within reach your indexing your no Noah properties city-owned property work that you're doing so all those programs address ownership housing as opposed to the left side of the screen in the orange and yellow area where you're talking about tax increment and you're using you know maybe tax credits on a project that sort of that tends to be in your rental categories not in your ownership categories and if you see different numbers here the latest number is 27,900 housing units in manataka and again you'll look at other data sources it might not be that high because it's a couple of years old you know all that new construction has just come online so if you see some differences in numbers it's just a timing issue it's a date issue um let's go into yeah if you want to look at specific numbers of affordability and the types of ownership uh product you can see that here if you're looking specifically just a quick chart instead of looking at the dashboard this helps you figure that out um if you're looking for H housing cost burden that chart is in here um and then again you can see that tabs moving at the top you see that and so the every housing policy that we have plus more if you hit the button below you'll get that MH then the housing goal section this is about the Lial communities act the goals that the city has set for itself what our production has been so far what your last General um goals have been how we did there um what else do we want to show them rental production information the chart with the affordability you guys always ask for this chart so we just put it up here this than you're welcome this chart shows you just kind of per unit per year how much assistance is being provided per project so every time a Project's added we update this chart it shows you what um type of assistance it was doesn't it h did we take that out we should have showed that's in the dashboard though that's in the dashboard most of them are tax increment most are T right good point so if you want more information you have to go to the dashboard um and there's the dashboard quick quick there's a link um let's go into programs for a second went too fast you want to talk about rental registry yeah so um we started uh earlier this year tracking our rentals in the community and we've had a lot of success so we have about 266 registered and we've been sending out uh various Communications to our landlords and also just recently started a newsletter that goes out to all multifam buildings for their tenants so it's kind of like informing the the landlords of things that we're offering in the community so that's been great we had a great open rate right did you see that yes incredible is that crazy 65% I think it was and then click click through click they actually read it or looked at it yeah that was pretty incredible so we're excited about that we're still getting quite a few um applications coming in every week and Kendall's the back end of those applications getting them all processed in into our system we it's been useful for um our um Public Health folks and contacting various managers and folks that um may have a question or need something um from the or nuisance calls or nuisance calls somebody didn't cut their grass to this so then we know exactly who to call y mhm um on the landlord side there's a lot of other information out there on our website um that's tied into our rental license or rental registry program um so that all of that information is out there um and then as well on our website are tenant resources so we're we get a lot of questions from tenants it ranges from everything so we if we can't handle it we know somebody who can so that's kind of we handle those um and then we're we've have some updates in here on rental assistance that's been provided I want to talk about to the next section which is the I think uh Kimberly you had asked about the investor owned um kind of stats and that sort of thing so we link the uh study that was done by the Federal Reserve and that's this and actually it's a live map and you can see different and these are census tracks so if you point to a census track on this link it'll tell you in that census track how many investor owned properties there are um minaka actually isn't a prime candidate because of our housing our housing costs are a little bit higher than other areas of the Twin Cities and so we don't have as high a percentage um of investor owned properties and actually that hasn't changed much over the last couple of years it's something we watch um but it's not like the number one issue that we're we're bed with um probably naturally occurring housing turning over to not naturally occurring is a bigger issue than this um but it's something that you have to pay attention to so and you can click on this and go into the actual dashboard for to get real time real time data that that the Federal Reserve provides did you have any questions about that um not on the investor owns so well maybe not on the investor owns so I'm wondering so so with the rental registry M are you getting a lot of um like Airbnb and verbo type um registrations and can and is there a way to tell if it's like owner occupied or if someone is like has bought a building and is just doing Airbnb around yeah we can kind of tell by just the name on and if we see multiple names showing up or if it's like an LLC that might be an indic that it's a group that's going out and buying properties and we're not seeing that at all really not much of it but what we I think when we come back to you I think this is Mike is this scheduled for November November rental registry back in November y so we'll do some more analytics for you on the registry hopefully by then we'll get even more um if you remember we couldn't quite guess how many single family rentals we had we weren't totally clear on that um we know we have 56 buildings in the city so we know that number but multif family buildings so it wasn't picking up our town homes or our condos and different uh single family that work for rent so we're picking up a lot of those you can see from the map that it's all over it's in every neighborhood it's not just um pinpointed to large multif family so it is interesting we have had neighbors call and ask if a neighbor's property is on the list so there's ways that we're getting information about specific properties that may maybe are rental we don't know yeah we won't give out this list we won't give it to anybody other than for City business so and the reason for that is because that's how we are collecting it so we promise them that it's only for City business or city context otherwise you might get marketing people that want the data and that's not what this is for so we promise homeowners and and renter uh landlords that we won't sell the data or give it to anybody is an internal map map and only a few of us have the access to it right yeah actually it's protected not everybody has access to this it's the people who need it for their jobs um keep going uh let's see go to home ownership here we go so we're tracking the median value uh we're talking about in this one how many uh affordable housing ownership production so we're tracking that you can kind of see um some of the work there obviously this year we'll add the um city-owned Roland if you sign off on that project we'll go ahead and do that homes Within Reach indexing units the number of units that are indexed every year down payment assistance programs home rehab let's see we have a town home town home and condo dashboard as well so this shows where all the different developments are this is embedded into the other housing dashboard but we separated it out for this yeah if you don't if you don't go on the dashboard and quick through says rent tabs and then it says town homes and condos that's the next tab over okay uh just noting that we do have some city- owned properties the is kind of the history of the Rolland Road um property kind of the video or partnership with future uh better Futures and trying to get the demo done and kind of how that's been working and then uh what's next which is the twin Home Development we just saw some drawings today on the plans and so hopefully we'll be back in front of you with uh with a contract just sign MH oh this is cool why did you show this yeah this is um Martha now has a mobile van that she uses to distribute various items to homeless um folks and she sent us a picture of her van I thought it was cute that she put lights up in there feels like a boutique yes all these things are donated um in fact at City Hall we have a donation uh request every year for employees to bring in things uh if it's coats or she just tells us what she needs and we put the list down a lot of people donate to the to her van here Kendall and I load up the stuff and bring it over there you guys drag it to her and then now it's much easier now that she has a van but if you show the vans that below those are the Outreach vans so I don't have an office anymore just if you didn't know that they don't have an office they operate on the road full-time so if they have Outreach to do they're showing up in their fan and they're just getting people right in and trying to get isn't that amazing I know she also has a refrigerated van and she does a lot of food delivery as well if she knows someone is hanging in a specific spot she will help with food yeah so she can do deal with that part of it as well um we blurred this out because again this is private but I we just wanted to give you an idea of what that looks like the red means they need help right away yellow means they're being dealt with and given resources the green is it's been resolved somebody's gotten help they moved on something has happened but well yeah they've made really efficient use of the money it seems like I me that was the one comment that I had in the packet I was pretty impressed they made it go a long way and 59 individuals mhm yeah so pretty incredible awesome but let's not get forget about senior housing we got that whole thing going on um you know we have about 2200 units we still hear about long waiting lists for special Iz care like assisted living that sort of thing um definitely an issue but we have some new senior coming online so that's helpful with the new Greco project up on the North side of the city and then our big list of how many other meetings do we have to Le you can describe this these are all of the me all of the different Partnerships and groups that we involved in that talk about affordable housing we're usually we're always there participating but um you know there's quite a few one thing I wanted to point out there is a new report on the state of the state's housing I don't know if you guys saw this it was the latest uh MHP Minnesota housing Partnerships report on housing in the entire State the link there shows you that report it's it's quite a good read I just scanned it the other day and uh it kind of gets you out of this kind of metrof focus idea that we have all these issue I mean it it kind of broadens your perspective a little bit about what's going on in in the Greater Minnesota area so just take take a look at that that's kind of an interesting thing oh and then next week I'm the chair of the league of Minnesota City's um housing task force so I'll be holding a meeting with uh lots of folks about housing issues and the policies of the league of Minnesota City so we'll do that next week and then I'll report back kind of what's going on there did we miss anything it's a lot there what didn't we talk about I don't know what do you want to hear more about maybe that's we got a any questions Council I had a question on how many folks got permanent housing from his house I know that um you know you served them but how many folks actually um went into permanent housing after like hotel stay M yes I did look that number up we have a spreadsheet where we're tracking all that information so out of everyone that's received Services um which I'm to my report here um so there were 20 his hosted 59 residents because there's individuals versus households and we're counting residents um there were six that are now in permanent housing which means they've kind of addressed all of the various things that they were um going through there were when I looked at the spreadsheet there's a lot that um maybe had been in a fight or some sort of disagreement with family members and she was able to get them the resources so that they could go back and live with their family members there was quite a few and I'm thinking those were the minors it's I didn't spend yeah that maybe ran away and then they were able to resolve and go back home um there were a lot that went into um transitional housing so maybe back through the County's coordinated program into a different type of transitional housing or um a center for um domestic abuse which we wouldn't consider that a permanent solution but it's getting them in the right path um there were some that refused additional service and I think trying to think if there were any other situations um I think that was kind of the majority but the goal is to get people into permanent um housing whether or not they choose to use the services you provide um is you know up for debate on some of them so so do you have a number for permanent housing is it like six six so is it six individual family or is it six households I think that was individuals right we are counting individuals now because we've had so many youths it's not always fames so it's sometimes there's notes that will indicate that as a family but they're counted as individuals okay so that could be like youth or adults so just 15 just a look at the report again 59 residents there were 34 minors in there when you think about the ones that were assisted to move back home 34 of the 59 were minors so they were provided some counseling or assistance to mend the disag yeah whatever was going on and move back right to a family situation okay that's good I'm just I'm just Cur I'm just curious cuz I know like with those programs um I worked at as y'all know coordinate access and it's different like youth is one thing families is another thing we know that youth come in and out of the households for whatever circumstance es and then they get reunited back with their family which is always a plus we want the youth to go back home so that gets them back stable in their homes but when I think about I'm more thinking about like that's good I'm not saying it's not and I appreciate that but I'm thinking more about families who are like homeless who going to stay in a hotel Extended Stay that we had in the document when those folks leave from the extended state how many of those families got permanent home from the exended state because I saw the number was um focused well it was more um more of the money was used funding was used in the extended state so in my mind how do they go from extended state to permanent housing so that's what I'm focusing on the hotel stays are more of a temporary solution to get into the coordinated entry program and then through the coordinated entry to get into permanent housing sometimes people don't stay in that path it's really hard to determine um if somebody's gonna stay the length or if something is changed but that is really the turning point of the hotel stay is getting them into that system to get them into the permanent housing okay and I wouldn't say um it's easy to track everything either I mean I think that they do their best to report to us exactly how many cases they had how many people they touched but where these people end up sometimes little bit fuzzy um if they haven't stayed in what I would call the path that they're trying to get to permanent housing so there are some people that just you know are gone for some reason and so they could have moved out of state they could have just moved to a different city I you know there's lots of reasons somebody might not stay with his house and their programming but um and they they aren't required to report back abs assist someone they can take the resource and go on the path of getting into housing but they're not required to check back in they're dealing with other things right right so life so I wouldn't say take the data and we give it to you as much as we can but I wouldn't say that it's absolutely accurate because no that's fine I'm just curious about are they actually getting places to live so thank some are some are some aren't though okay yeah all right are there other questions on this topic any other programs that you want to talk about anything else that we should be keeping on our radar don't tell me a month from now oh seems like you have a lot going on right now you know we'll tell more have have more for you in a month no promises we're going no promises tell well how about for now maybe Pell yeah right porell yes I just had one one more quick question I had one more question I don't know if this under the um the pathway program too it falls in this too okay so I had a question too I talked to Mike about um with we got nine folks who purchased homes with the pathway program seven was um white folks one was a asan one was a black I wanted to know did you have a demographic male or female or transgender or what how did they identify themselves or did you know that yep I think male female was three men and six female okay and then I just wanted to know I had mentioned this to um Mike too about how do we um increase the number of um bipac um folks getting into those um homes purchasing homes through the pathway program and then is there is there a way we could try to look at making sure that we do um making sure that people are Weare maybe and then I wanted to make one more statement because when I I talked about our program to some Realtors I had went to a meeting in Minneapolis and there was a group of business folks there different realators just from all different sectors and one of the things that they pointed out to me quickly this is like when we first got the program they said yeah KY that sounds good just thinking about $75,000 dollars that you're giving to folks that meet the income requirement but when you think about the cost of the homes in minona it's really not enough money to help byac folks that usually does not make that kind of money or I'll just say something at a lower income so when I thought about that um I started thinking like how do we get there is that like one of the things they mentioned to me they said KY $75,000 is not really enough um how about $100,000 and I'm just saying this this is what someone a realator process this would be so I'm just talking about it but it was mentioned and then I was thinking about like how do how do we make sure that um we increased the number of I guess bips that mean I can't P say no other way yeah I understand um well obviously you know this we talked about it before fair housing you can't you know dictate a certain phas for the program so we we know that yep however you know we put it on this is an interesting way that people find out about it it's on every lender's um I don't know module I guess when they look at programming for certain cities it actually comes up on their module um that they type into you know first-time home buyer uh you know what kind of programming what city what city what income level what's this and it pops out what every city has it falls into those parameters wherever they're they're looking for a home so that's automatic now it wasn't it wasn't before I mean we got this to to work with this program and actually any of our programs now have this um ability to go through a portal that helps second thing that um I think helps uh although um just making sure that anybody that you know or anybody that you're talking to has awareness of this program word of mouth is is just as effective as marketing um but understanding that it actually is put race aside for a second it actually is working for the people who are using the program in terms of the price so if you look at you look at the dollar figure the dollar figure is 29,000 average is what people are using in the program the range is between 10 and 41,000 so I would I would agree with you KY I thought that number would be a much higher request like everybody would ask for 75 and we wouldn't be able to help that many people that's what I thought was going to happen this is not telling that story however um one thing I want to look at to the next time we talk to you about this and maybe we can put it in the report um oh there it is Max no this is a Max property value is 465 trying to find a house like that and I would challenge everybody to think this is not necessarily single family house okay this is town home condo not necessarily single family house in this price range we can do any of those types of units 465 for a men house happen I'm not seeing anything on MLS for that price range so if it was probably homes Within Reach would buy it maybe five years ago years ago so probably and I can't remember are these all single family that they bought I don't know the to let's get back to you on that because I I'm not sure all of those are single family homes so um but the point is they're using about half of what we thought they'd be using in terms of the price well I think it's because it's white folks that's getting them in the program it's more white folks in the program and white folks tend to have more higher income so that's that's why I'm thinking that's why it's like that I mean when you talk when we talk about income when you do a comparison like there's been so many reports about it there yeah the Gap in home ownership for sure absolutely I think I'm going to look back at the income though based on Rise let's do that for you so we can we also have a um it's not on here but we know we get to see how many people applied and either withdrew or denied and that number is much larger than the ones that go through and that may be for a number of factors their house fell through that they were trying to buy or they chose a home in a different Community but there's actually a lot more people applying than are getting approved for various reasons and their um backgrounds are all different yeah so maybe maybe we could report on actual applications too so you can kind of see those numbers as well no I I'm I'm I'm really happy that the program is working um don't get me wrong I think everybody deserves a place I don't care care what color of race you are um especially young people who are first-time home buyers I know it's like a lot of um like our teachers our you know firefighters you know we talk about that all the time and I I think it's really important that so don't think that's not what I'm thinking about but I'm also thinking about making sure that we keep working on making sure that we start closing some of those gaps that we have across our state so I'm constantly thinking about that so yeah awareness is a big deal and but you know there is this I talked about this with Alicia today you know if somebody's going to look for affordable housing or some kind of house that they can afford right are they looking at Mina first you know I thought that they're probably it's a perception it's a wall immediately they feel like oh I can't get there and I and we talked about this the mar and I we we did this housing perspective study how long ago was that I don't know 12 12 13 years ago but we asked people outside of minaka what they thought of minaka and there is this perception problem that we have and and to your point that might have to do with the race issue so so are people of color looking for minetonka as one of their choices of places to live probably not because they think it's unattainable and so then they're not applying they're not looking here that sort of thing so that's a kind of a problem I think we have just on a basic LEL there's just a perceptual challenge I mean when people think of motanka they think of Lake motanka I mean I can't tell you it's probably been 100 times I've said I live I'm from Minnetonka Minnesota they said oh do you live on the lake yeah I mean they you know and we've all had that well it's because lake minan is well known people have no idea if you don't live here that we have 3% of Lake minota lak Shore they think they think Lake in minaka and everybody lives on the lake and that's that's perception we know it's not the reality but it's the perception but I think that is getting in the way a little bit to your point about that we haven't seen as much diversity as maybe we were expecting so I I keep that in mind when you look at some of these numbers because I do think people just don't shop here because they you know I think yeah I think we you know so to ky's point I mean intentionality and okay how can we overcome that because it is something that needs to be overcome because the you know people don't act on reality they act on perceptions correct and if the perception is that well it's just a bunch of rich white folks there well then chances are bipac people um are not going to be looking for affordable hous in a TKA I mean that's just reality so we what can we do to overcome that that's that's that's a challenge for all of us that's what I'm thinking about how can we we'll think more about that and we'll think about the other interesting thing you would play us me today like K he had mentioned like young folks looking to get first time home buyers average age up there is 46 so these are first time home buyers on the aage I know I thought about that too like wow they older they haven't attained housing ownership at this point in their life when that's just kind of assumed for some of us all right is there anything else because I'm not I'm starting to fail on my time oh I'm sorry we went on a bit sorry sorry sorry all right um anything else on housing are we are we good no uh the next time we'll come back to is in uh November we're going to talk about rental registry we'll give you some more analytics on that and get your feedback on it Deb I don't want to ignore you any any any thoughts or comments okay so I believe that takes us to our next agenda item and that is conference briefing and uh Mike has that all right well thank you Mary I think I in all of our conversations today I think we spoke to all of you about this on the agenda and since it's 8:26 if your goals be well be reasonable though all the I think really maybe the way to just kind of Kick this conversation off is Mayor excuse me I can't hear oh you can't hear he didn't turn it on again but he's he pushed the button now he's good wrong Deb if you weren't absent I wouldn't have to worry about my button Tom stalker wants to hear you all right I'm sorry about that thanks Deb thanks for the reminder um so uh just kick off the conversation really it's I think my goal and staff's goal is always to be responsive to council I think first and foremost and you know you rewind the clock a few years ago um the makeup of I think the previous council is different than this Council and so we have more Council engaged with uh attending conferences and more engaged with learning and being exposed to more of the experiences that we're learning um from those conferences and so the the challenge that poses a little bit for me and staff is when we go to those conferences and we get those ideas that are being generated just when those come back how do we process those because really I think from a staff perspective and I I say staff more so myself because I chat with you all about kind of post conference debrief and and you're sharing with me some of the things the sessions you've attended some of the things you've learned some of the things that might benefit motanka and it starts to become kind of a bigger list of things that we could be doing and should be considering and so in order to manage that so we're meeting everyone's expectations because the last thing I want to do or staff wants to do is say nice idea but we're not going to get to it or you thinking I shared that with staff and it didn't go anywhere and so really just want to tease that with you tonight this what does that look like how do we make sure that your expectations are being met staff is hearing what your what some of the ideas you have and then how do we kind of take that from a conference and putting something into motion without again kind of upsetting kind of the priorities that we put in place with our strategic plan and the other um items that we're trying to adjust throughout the year so no problem to solve other than I think just really making sure we're all on the same page with expectations how we kind of vet those out and as you all know we do have a process now where we do set up our study session work schedule um and that'll come up in December so I do create a list I create multiple lists but one of those is when you do share things with my with me I do write those down um some of those tend to be policies some of those might be executional some of those might be simple as like hey can we look at change in our website um as into then even bigger policy issues and so how we synthesize those is important um you're the elected officials we going to make sure our staff we're on a path that's meeting your expectations and so with that current process I've got that list we'll plan to bring that list to you in December um and that really what that will do is as you've done in previous years prioritize those and that'll create the road map for 2025 that being said there's some of the things that come up that are that seem more pressing that are just beyond just an ordinance or perhaps a policy matter where it's more executional in nature and so again I just want to tease out with you a process um some things that I've thought about since um chatting with all of you and um well having conversations with you today and even some last week on perhaps even as a conference followup um I could send out preemptive email just to start teasing out some of the things that you're learning and start synthesizing a list that way we can be more methodical in what we're discussing and um again making sure those items that should rise to the top do rise to the top and not getting lost within just one-on-one conversation so I'll stop there I think all of you know what uh what we're here tonight to discuss and um I'll turn back over to Brad or questions that you might have from me on how you want to tease us out a little bit I wasn't expecting that we would have a list tonight or we' start going through any lists tonight but just more about process what does this look like um how do we again um set up success um as again we kind of chug along throughout the year because you've had a national league of cities conference you many of you have attended the league of Minnesota cities conference we have another National League of cities conference coming up later this year so that fair enough well thanks thanks Mike any I don't know if anyone has any offhand comments they'd like to make on on this topic I mean you know I I doubt thank you mayor um well I mean I think because I'm not pry to the way people are conveying the information that they get or the ideas that they're generating to you I mean I'm just wondering if there is you know because because we all send you th those things separately is there a system or a process that that you felt would be H helpful for you or staff for us to share are there sort of recurring you know like are there sort of recurring challenges the way people are expressing it or patterns things that happen over and over that um specifically you want to us to try to problem solve a little bit tonight Mike any thoughts or that's a that's a loaded question gu it was loaded um I'm gonna turn my mic off [Laughter] Deb uh no very very good question I not specific I mean I think it's I mean to be probably a little more direct you know if if five council members go to a conference and all and I get five ideas now I got 25 ideas that have now landed on my li on my lap and so I'm trying to figure out all right so some are some may are good ideas some maybe not and so again it's you get I get all a sudden I got 25 things and I'm trying to then manage that in a way that's productive and so that that's really the heart of the issue Deb is because I want to meet your expectations and so well and I think I think there's a couple a couple of issues that make it hard too is that you know we could um we could come back and boy there's an idea that I'm really hot on and I could go talk to a bunch of council members and say yeah talk to Mike about that and we'll gang up on him and then he'll have to do it well that is not consistent with the open meeting law I was I knew I could make Karine unhappy um if I um teed it up a certain way but you know I'm I'm I'm thinking about you know I I I was with a mayor from an unnamed City and he and at the National League of cities he said yeah I come to this meeting and he said I I get 15 or 20 great ideas and I drive staff insane when I get back and and I think that's a little bit about what we're talking about here is we do get good ideas and so how do we get them fairly communicated and vetted um and if we each came back with 10 ideas U and five of us went to the conference that's 50 ideas that's that's overwhelming and unfair for staff but I I'm wondering if maybe we could have a a bit of a discipline and say okay I'm going to share things with staff that I think they should know about that I got to the conference but I'm only going to the most I will share is three I might have 10 good ideas the most I'm gonna the most I'm going to share is three and then I think if Mike wanted to take that list no more than three from each of us and share it with us because then it's a then it's public then then we you know we could say okay well let's rate these and you know maybe create fodder for a a um we could either provide feedback to Mike via email or we could um but not not reply all but but um or or we could say okay now we've got some direction given to Mike from some of these good ideas because you know there's there's not only presentations but there's the trade show and you've got people selling you and sometimes they're selling you really cool stuff and you think we ought to buy it I understand with all of our ideas we don't have any funding sources attached to them either but I think you know but when I talk to Mike about this my sense is he's trying to say okay how do I sort how do I demonstrate that I'm interested and I care but how do I vet all these ideas um when I get you know different ideas from all the different council members I think that's a fair question so I'm throwing just I'm that's one idea but any any way we can help him sort through keep us informed and have an involvement Rebecca I think that's I think your idea is great I and I kind of shared the same idea with Mike today I would be excited to hear because we all go to different sessions and there is an opportunity to get some information I would say kind of that information you know get it to Mike Mike can collate you know somebody can collate it and if we have interest so say there's a list of 10 ideas we can vote yeah right in Charter on but let's show some restraint let's not pick our top three if we only like one then let's only pick one and say I would like to consider this and that can go on our study session list unless there's something Mike says should we consider escalating this but then it can go on our study session list and in in December or January we can decide is this still a good idea do we want to talk about it this year so I think some being deliberate I'd like to get the information I love to hear ideas and then seeing if there's a general consensus to want to hear more talk about it more and then filtering it through the other things we've asked staff to address on an annual basis I think helps us keep focused on not just like a whacka moole of ideas that's my thought any other thoughts from counil Members um Deb yeah I you know I just think about some of the sessions that I went to at National League had to do with like resources so I'm not necessarily asking us to take action on any one thing and I don't always know what the city needs like what different departments need but I go to sessions where they give resources and then I'm you know tell Mike about it we don't we may not have the resources to even investigate the resources or we might really need the resources that we're talking about and um you know you might I mean we all we've all been to different conferences sometimes they're just chalk full of great sessions and sometimes a bunch of the sessions kind of D so you know I think you know there's a really really good year where we have a lot of sessions I just because I I will just say to Mike I will let you know if I really like feel we need to take action on something but a lot of the time if I'm sending you information it's really informational or I'm often asking you what what you know what if this city needs it or if I you know need to take it somewhere so um that's part of it too is I think just the inundation of information because we do all go to different um sessions and so I try not to overload but um I don't know I just feel like if it's good information I don't always know like if there's like Public Safety grants I went to a great session on that you know then I went to a bunch of other good sessions so I do I what do I do with it you know do I not do I do I show restraint and just hang on to it or do I share it no I that's a good point I think sharing absolutely share I think it's just more about how to how just want to make sure again I think the way I tried to te it up is Staff cares staff we we spend taxpayers spend spend money uh for all of us to attend conferences Council and staff and so when when count when staff goes to conferences we we a staff to bring back ideas and put things into motion as well things that you don't see and and it's oftentimes it has to do with if there's ideas that can streamline operations if there's a way to be more efficient if it's if there's a a new idea on how to do better public engagement if there's an idea on oh we should move something on our website or maybe we need to highlight something differently those are all absolutely we're doing those things I think it's more sometimes the the deeper policies uh or um things that come up where like where I know and and I I'll do a better job of thatting those out with Council when these come up so I can try to categorize them into perhaps different whether it's executional whether it's more policy and so I'll I'll work with you on that as well on how we again I think address these in terms of whether there financing available what resources are needed because sometimes ideas are just more than oh let's just do this because it involves people it involves money it involves time and so some things are can be more difficult to put into motion and so I think that's that's really the the pieces that I'm trying to hit on is some of the more right deeper the deeper ideas where it's not just straightforward so the straightforward stuff yes we're we're taking care of and we're often doing and I'll do a better job of communicating that to you on like all right yes yes here's that idea and we can put that into motion or perhaps it goes on on the list to get further vetted out Deb's correct Deb and both I think Kimberly perhaps even others but Kimberly and Deb come to mind in terms of very good about forwarding grant opportunities because you have some exposure with some of the the grant opportunities there's we always hear there's lots of money out there and so it's we're exploring those staff goes to those conf different conferences and here you know we get the some same information but it is helpful to know what you're exposed to that way I do pass it on to other to staff members and sometimes it's grants that don't work and sometimes they are and sometimes we're applying for them um so it's it's working really well and again there's no problem we're trying to solve here I think again I just want to make sure we're on the same page with meeting expectations because it's really my my goal is I want to make sure we're we as staff are meeting your expectation when it comes to things we're all exposed to because our goal at the end of the day is to really better our city and make sure we're in concert doing that can I say something yes I I was just going to say I think um I like the idea that um the mayor said where we bring the the information back and maybe do give like one or two ideas or whatever and um we can kind of vote on it um once you kind of U tabulate everything and um to add it to a study session at some point because I think if we're going to continue to go to the count um conferences I've know since I've been on a council I've been to a lot of conferences and my phone is full of information I don't always give it you know I don't always give the information over I'm guilty of that but I I think if we're going to be I started thinking about this I'm like we are really spending taxpayer money going to these conferences and I don't hear us to I I know I BR it up I don't hear us talking about it enough and if we're going to continue to do this like we probably should be putting it out there in public that we are discussing and we are trying to do something with the information that we're y getting so thank you KY and and and I I agree with that I think that um you know I don't think we cavalierly go to conferences but it does cost money to go um travel and the cost of the conference and so if if we are very intentional about coming back with you know and and also narrowing our list down you know we can have a list of 30 great ideas but okay what are the top two or three that could benefit motanka and and just be disciplined about that I think then we are offering our taxpayers a greater return on their investment for our intent for our investment I think that's that's what we want to do so I don't I think this is no yeah this is perfect I think I got enough enough information I appreciate the conversation quickly tonight and um we'll tease some of this out uh and I'll send some EMA I got some information iess two comments um thank you for for this and I like the idea of having a template I think that we discussed that something that goes out either in advance or right after um conferences sorry your turn my turn long day um I like the idea of having the template or something that goes out either in advance ideally even or after conferences that we can fill out and you know have some of this information so we also can know especially newer council members what kind of information is helpful um the other thing I liked I think I heard mention of is that having uh maybe not holding everything till the end of the year um somehow having discussion whether it's at study sessions like these were things that Rose you know that are being talked about whether at conferences or are just coming in from our residents that were're passing along and then maybe some of us are having the same ideas that you know we can go but it would be helpful for Me Maybe as a as a newer uh member also to understand you know that I'm not in isolation and some of my things that I'm thinking of that other people are having these ideas or hearing these things from residents as well and in a form like this this is maybe a 15 20 minute discussion on in our study sessions where some of that can rise to the top so it's not like a hurry up at the end in December and and try to you know put this all together um and then that also allows kind of some of those long-term conversations but also some of your like action steps or executional um issues that you were talking about that I think might be helpful to talk about in the course of the year um rather than saying to my resident well I can put this on a study session and we can maybe talk about it next year so that's that's my two sents I think that's really it would be really helpful so thank you for thinking of that and you know kind of inviting um council members in and trying to figure out a way to get our input in an organized fashion that works for everybody thanks all right thank you appreciate that all right anything else on this one other thing that I'd say is that you know we send mik God knows I mean joke but um you know I think we can send information to Mike in different ways and if it's really just an FYI I usually just say FYI if it's something that I need um action on you know we'll be talking about it so I think there's that as well and if it's really just a matter of avalanche of FYI then I can be more judicious maybe but um s and confession Deb you're not Catholic all right pardon me for that um so let's see I think I think we've I think we've covered this um uh then August study session um topics and date Mike yeah thank you uh mayor uh let's see so on your just taking a look at at the upcoming schedule Oh yes August um so looking at our study session work plan we've got in August the 2025 general fund budget so we'll have that conversation coming forward that'll be um really the the bulk of the conversation and then next month's again August next month's strategic Plan update again today was Julie with livable and well plan development next month a safe and healthy community so we'll hear from Chief Fox and chief booom on that one and then like to tease out with you 2025 meeting Logistics um because in October of every year is when we set the following year calendar so in October um Becky kozman our city clerk works with our staff we start pulling together the framework for all of our meetings for 2025 and we adopt that in October but before we do that want to tease out three things with you um if I should I I'll just share with you quickly what those kind of three things are so we can start thinking about it um one meeting start times so whether you know if we want to think about moving instead of 6:30 moving back to 6: o00 um so one one conver because when we set the calendar we'd want to know start times uh so teasing out a start time change another consideration U to to talk to you about is moving our meeting nights to perhaps another night maybe Tuesday nights it's most a lot of cities do meet on Tuesdays um reason for that is I've heard from council members that will ask a question can we get our packet sooner um the sooner part is harder from a staff perspective we have so many moving parts to put the packet together it does it's a Monday Tuesday Wednesday all kind of a three-day thing that happens to get a packet out on Thursday so another solution rather than moving getting the packet out a day sooner is maybe moving the meeting day to Tuesday if there's an appetite to move to a Tuesday night which would give you another day uh to review the packet don't have to I'm really indifferent on that so we'll we'll talk about whether that's Council has an appetite for that that does require moving some other meetings around um and then the third thing what was the third thing remember Miranda agenda oh the agenda I've had a couple council members also um talk about like business items as we all know is later in the agenda and as we all know we see a lot of folks that come in at 6 o'clock or 6:30 and wait till 9 9:30 before we get to business and so um the only way to change that would be to move perhaps business up in the up in the order but that would require Council action through your rules of procedure so so meing legistics I just want to quickly use that with you next month and is that rules of procedure or does that require a charter change it's in your rules rules of procedure okay so we'll talk about the the lineup of the the agenda items okay any other comments so that's uh that's what's for uh I'm Sorry Brad that's August like I mentioned September um strategic Plan update on community inclusiveness we'll have roles and responsibilities for volunteer community interest groups you know that's been um on your work plan uh and then miss damond's going to talk about city manager review process perhaps kind of changing that up um for this year and some ideas around that so that's September Octobers identify policy maners for boards and commissions so I know we've talked about is there some body of work here that uh you want to pass off to boards and commissions and what that might be and then in strategic Plan update as well that month so that's the next couple months again the study sessions I always say are yours and so if you want to move those around add anything now's the time to um to express that thanks Mike any any suggestions Kimberly yeah so the uh oh yeah that too but oh yeah October we've got the SE tool right yeah yeah this is a this is a a new I will I will be be your problem child um so um around the the tree ordinance tension um I had suggested a possible Amendment to the tree ordinance back in February that again didn't get traction um and I know uh council member Calbert mentioned that she had wanted to see see uh some changes in the tree ordinance so um talk to Mike about that if if that's if we can get the tree ordinance on the study session or if if we want to wait and look at it at the same time as we look at uh zoning um I'm not I'm not sure but anyway that's what I would like us to discuss the tree ordinance very good when so um when when would we fit that in Mike I don't know do you have a suggestion or Karine or Deb yeah thanks Brett I would maybe turn to well Julie as well um in terms of timing again I think as I mentioned to Kimberly when she asked me about it which is correct and that is it's really up to you it's it's when do you want to discuss it if you want to kind of unpack some of that tree ordinance now and we would want that direction from you as councel and and then if so where do you want to put that in um and how deep do you want to go into the into the tree ordinance um I think the historian Miss wishnack would say the last time the tree ordinance was discussed and some of you were in Council when that happened it was a that was a two-year process or if it's just how narrow how big a scope how narrow of a scope do you want to hone in on the tree ordinance uh the public engagement process in that so we could start that now and then I would say if we're going to start that now saff would want some direction on again as you've heard us say we've got a lot in the hopper and so where does that fit into the timing and then or the other option is do you want to unpack that discussion during the Zone Co rewrite the zoning rewrite which will be 12 months to 18 months down the road and and I'll I'll throw out a thought I mean I do have one thing to say you you know I would say that I think before we decide that let's understand what changes our our different council members have regarding the tree ordinance because it could just be a couple of things I mean we went through the thing recently about um the acre lots and uh you know kind of some were lamenting the fact that that was part of our ordinance and maybe it would have been nicer if it was an acre and a half or something like that but if there's some specific thing I mean rewriting the tree ordinance is a big job if there are tweaks to it on specific issues that people are concerned about let's identify those before we decide how much time we're going to have to spend on it because if there's if there's two or three things that are people don't like about the tree ordinance I mean I've I've got a few ideas too but I mean that's a lot different than a total rewrite of the or ordinance and I'd rather be Surgical and quick than um than turn it into a big big deal when it's not might not necessarily be a big big deal well I mean I can tell you my personal thing is is just a very specific yeah um and I'm not sure yeah there a couple of things one is the issue that you brought up Brad and then the other issue is the Woodland preservation ordinance which you know has worked up until now but this was a per case in point where this was exactly what I was afraid would happen and it and and it is happening so Woodland preservation and you know the issue that that Kimble is talking about um and that you're talking about but also I mean Zone Co had recommendations so I think we want to get a little bit clear about sort of what our what our purpose what we're to get out of it and I know that on October 14th we have issues for boards and commissions to discuss and maybe this is one of them with you know specific um guidance about sort of what we're looking at um you you know out of that so that might the October 14 discussion might be a good place to just start getting some of those uh issues with the tree ordinance and I know zono has their own idea because they they're saying our tree ordinance is too strict and restrictive and then Julie did you have or or has that been identified you had a yeah that kind of was I think concern was you change one part and then you go back and you do your zoning ordinance rewrite and then you're changing it again I'm just thinking about process process consistency predictability that sort of thing for people who are in the ordinance uh Every Day Developers builders that sort of thing well I'll tell you what why don't we as a suggestion I mean I think we we've teed it up now let's um let's kind of dimensionalize it and maybe we can talk talk about okay what do we want to focus on and then decide when we should do it based on how how broad that scope is does that make sense we're up against :00 window here what what staff could do is perhaps just tease out an email with Council on if Kimberly's Point Kimber would like to be very surgical it sounds like and maybe others want to address different parts of the ordinance maybe we should just understand from all of you like what what is it about the three ordinance you want to study that'll give us a better sense of how much that will be how much work would that and be involved and timing of that y we do then we can better lay it out we can better lay it out yeah let's let's let's know what we're asking okay I'll just say it's very hard to address the tree ordinance in a vacuum because it has major consequences to our other goals and so I worry about just like T I don't like what happened either but I also don't want to create other problems so I think it's a big I mean I do think it's a bigger issue than we think it is I think that's fair all right well let's uh let's noodle that and share ideas with staff and and they'll they'll come back yeah I think I'll still send out your points very valid Rebecca and I I'll just I'll send out an email perhaps we'll kind to start identifying what parts of the code people have concerns with and then we'll go from there all right well um let's see it's about almost 9 o' and so we're gonna AP you have another oh sorry uh um it's [Music] secret um when we're talking about maybe discussing some of these issues per things that are rising to the top conferences or whatever but would this be something that we would discuss as in issues that we want to discuss and again if if that's going to go on to our study session thing talking for five or 10 or 15 minutes in a study session this could maybe do that or or maybe maybe if you for the last agenda item does this fit into even though this wasn't a conference yes agenda item does this kind of fall in that same kind of conference type category where we bet this out with some of the other things yes fair enough is that I think what you're saying okay all right I'll send an email out to tease some of that out okay anything else otherwise I'm going to call this meeting adjourned thank you all for being here tonight