[Music] all right everyone welcome tonight is Monday September 16 2024 this is a study session of the minona city council I'll call the meeting to order and um we will um start with introductions and Miranda we'll start with you g around and then we'll have our guests introduce themselves and then we will um get at the agenda so y r Dam assistant city manager City attorne Mike bunk city manager py Foster Bolton Paulo ra w three Rebecca sha W two Brad weon mayor KY kopley W four Dub calber City council at large CA Jace Alexander senior diversity AC inclusion coordinator s Senior Management coordinator will Manchester Public Works director Julie devel Kelly OD Recreation director Sally Bressler I live in Ward to I'm a member of the minetonka community housing team Cindy Rich also a member of the community housing team I also live in W to Kevin ringhofer also live in W to the min housing Team Gerald gonne minetonka resident With Friends of minetonka parks and Friends of col nature Reser Angela morera I'm also a resident in minetonka also in um friend minetonka parks and Linda Russell uh minaka resident friends of minaka parks and Friends of L uh John moraca resident and I'm the board chair of princi par oops will I think oh sorry pan I'm David Allen and I live on Hidden Valley Road about two miles from here very good welcome everyone so we've got introductions done so we'll get to business items and item 3A is the Met Council imagine 2020 50 plan up date and is that Mike is that you or Julie yeah um thank you mayor and Council just teed up real quickly for Julie again for our guests we are informal here today so we don't usually do by Mr and miss so with Julie wishnack presenting here tonight uh on the Imagine 2050 update just a couple things that were noted in the staff report now this is uh your opportunity as a council to help staff draft a response if you feel there's a response that is needed to the Met Council as you know we're in our current met council plan the 20 well it's called the it's always kind of confusing because it's called the have a whole slide on it got a whole side on this I'll just say we're in the current the current plan our 20 240 plan which was developed in 2018 or approved in 2018 and that really operationally takes us from 2018 to 2028 which is then called the 20 240 plan uh met council is now um gearing up for then the new revision or the new um comp plan for all cities I think Council you're aware that all cities in the seven County Metro required to do a comprehensive plan I guess I'm going through Julie's background slide is uh as we're in this uh current as we gear up for the next plan it is uh to be approved by the Met Council in 2028 through 2038 but that's called then the 2050 plan and so really to kind of te this tease us out today uh staff has had some presentations that both Julie and I have heard from met counil staff I think some of the council members may have heard a presentation from that Council staff at a recent Metro City's policy adoption committee uh and then this is all out there on the Met Council website and um I think for for those that maybe clicked on the link in the staff report it takes you to the Met Council website and it's um it's it's not very prise it's kind of all over the place it's it's hard to really kind of interpret really what B council is proposing what staff has done in our report for you this evening is really looked at three items that we want to call to your attention and really I think what Julie wants to flush out with you council is here are some observations we have as staff um how do you share those same observations and then to what extent do you want to submit a letter to met counsil and that is due on October 7th so with that I really want to turn it over to Julie with kind of the three major observations that we've seen as staff in the Met Council uh 20150 um pre-planning process so with that thank you uh Council and then turn Julie thank you Mike uh appreciate it I think you covered this slide pretty well again imagine 2050 that's what we're working on and uh the previous plan was called Thrive I think also in addition to understanding kind of the regional framework it's it's hard to understand where does the city planning process come into play and I think this is the best way to understand it so a lot of activities have been going on with the Metro Council they've been doing a lot of Outreach um if you've had uh an opportunity to look at their website they kind of document all of the conversations they've been having the meetings they've been having over the last year year and a half um then they spent a lot of time in late 23 and 24 doing the policy drafting I do sit on the local planning um I would call it local planners group that kind of bet some of this information before it gets out to the public but um I would say just I get a heads up before it's released and then if there's any glaring things that we believe should be clarified uh we make those recommendations um for it to uh come out so I felt pretty comfortable with what was um said on the the Metro council's website because I had seen a lot of the data before but at the end here you can see they want to adopt in 25 and Implement in 26 that's where the city process comes in of developing its own comprehensive plan that meets the regional framework again that process takes oh two years that's probably a good estimate the last time I'd say it would took us a really good two years U we had a lot of um things to study and we had a lot of meetings and a lot of Outreach and that took time so it can take a while there's sometimes meeting fatigue when we do that so just a reminder what we're doing is trying to get ready for October 7th um there's public input required um there's two ways you can do it one is a letter um but also there's an online portal that you can do by section so if you want to do land use uh notes you put it in you know the land use portal if you want to go to housing you put it in there so it just depends on how complicated your questions or your issues are and I'll we'll choose how to do that based on the conversation tonight so on the top of this chart it tells you about what the regional forecasts looks like and it gives you the different Decades of 2020 all the way through 2050 and you can see some of that growth if you read more about the demographic shift what's going on it is a slower economic time they do predict that slower growth in uh land use and changes in land use and housing over the next a couple of decades so that is showing up in the numbers that you're seeing for minaka specifically the population growth expected between 2020 and 2050 and remember these numbers kind of range around so when we talk about housing we've got a different couple of decades to deal with so um 2020 to 2050 population growth would be about 16,000 people it would be a growth of about 8,000 households or units of Housing and then Employment growth is expected to be about 13,500 so if you use some math the growth that's forecasted here is about 260 units a year and really if you look back at what we've been doing over the last 10 years we've been building at about 436 units a year so that's like almost half of what uh we've been doing so that doesn't concern us as planners however on the employment side we do believe 13,000 seems a little strong I think we had a question today about employment and how do they count telea workers and all that wherever your paycheck comes from whatever City so you work for United Health Group when you're based in minetonka that check wherever that paycheck's coming from that's considered where you're employed doesn't matter if you work at home 5 days a week that's where you're considered an employed person we think it's a little strong for a variety of reasons we know that vacancy is pretty strong in our office Market we're actually doing an update to that right now trying to figure out how vacant are we just in minaka and a lot of it has to do with you know the telecommuting but some of it has to do with consolidation of office space we don't believe that will be over or that kind of Hump of vacancy for another 10 years that will affect population of employment so it's an important point you might go oh why do we care so much about employment well when we're planning for road projects and infrastructure and PM peak hour trip generation and all that stuff that number is really important so it's not just housing that we look at it's the employment numbers so that can really affect of some of the regional improvements that are considered by the city so might not seem like a big deal but is something I probably would point out to the Metro Council or at least have them respond minona is known as a Suburban uh City there's also urban urban Edge Suburban Edge Rural Center rural residential it goes on and on um in that uh land use and it's specifically talking about density they're recommending a seven units per acre density now when I say that there's instant confusion okay the instant confusion is the city has only guided up to four units per acre right because you went to low density in your head a lot of people have that's not what they're talking about we're talking about overall how is the city going to develop into 2050 so I want to show you some numbers about um um or first I'll put some disclaimers then I'll show you some numbers the um density that they're talking about is a net density okay the numbers I'll show you are gross because I didn't have all the time to do all the homework so we'll get to that when we do our comprehensive plan but I'll show you some gross numbers um I already said the second point and then the overall and then so the historical context I want to give you is the last 10 years what's been happening in minetonka so overall in all unit types we average about 12.67% [Music] thing to reflect on in this slide is 3,800 units of multif family have been built in this city over the last 10 years um not as much in the town home category with very little town home activity you can kind of see it now we're starting to get more proposals on town home we have not been there for a long time very little construction about 400 uh single family just a note on the single family we're using just a general I didn't go up and look for permits up so the lot sizes we just went on a 2 unit per acre um density you do have higher densities then in the single family area but just for ease of math um again all of these numbers would inflate your density per acre if you wanted to look at just how much have we constructed in the last few uh five years it'd be like 54 units a year if you looked at 10 years we average 427 all that being said we did all that homework to tell you in the report I just did one year but I knew in my gut that this was not an issue minat Tonka had to be concerned about seven units an acre is just not an issue for the kind of development we're seeing now if you were in a um I would say a community that had only housing single family housing being built it might become more of an issue um you might get closer to some of the seven units per acre just because of um you don't have that multif family to offset or provide the density that the Met council is looking for so I think that's um a non-issue for motanka to give you per perspective about what's happening again we're looking backwards how many households were built in the Suburban designated communities about 15,000 so we're about a quarter of what construction was over the last 10 years so that's a pretty strong part of the housing solution if you will I did put a um a link actually I think I might have provided a capture of it uh it might be in my next Slide the last part I want to talk about is housing and a lot of the things that they talk about in the goals and policies are contained in various documents that the city has the current comprehensive plan talks a lot about this same things that the um housing policy talks about at the Met Council there's also notes in the EIP about programmatic things that we want to do as a city again reflecting much of what they're talking about and then of course your strategic plan talks about housing so there's a couple of areas you already deal with a lot of the things they identified I think this was a little bit harder to understand okay go with me for a minute allocation of need is only a 10year time frame so when you're talking about 7,900 units to be constructed by 2050 they're estimating that in the first 10 years of that number of units constructed um half of them uh would have to be affordable so 1300 units would have to be affordable um so I think that's a little daunting especially if you look at the category uh that they're talking about is 30% Ami we all know that is the hardest and most uh difficult um Ami to grasp and capture we've gotten down to the 40s with some of our projects but if you're having a wholesale change in housing uh to get 30% you're going to need different funding sources tax credits aren't um there for cities like menaka if you look at the uh funding criteria I've been advocating for um changing how they do the funding criteria because we're not in a qualified census track there's a lot of stuff that goes along with it but um the way they score application minetonka never does well and so we sit and wait and wait and once in a while we'll get um the last project that's a tax credit was uh dominions project in Opus that's last time we received tax credit allocation so the comment here is unless funding significantly changes for affordable housing specifically to 30% there's not a lot of traction the city can do on its own we can try to piece together different projects get a few 30% here and there but we're not going to get 752 752 right so that that one I will mention that in the comments that that is going to be a hard number to hit doesn't Ma I mean it's a good goal to have it's just and we need that it's not I'm not saying that the point is that executing and implementing is going to be a a really big challenge so I'll end it here if you had any questions oh one thing I'm sorry one more thing on housing there was a link in the document that showed production of affordable housing throughout the region so I think it was 20 2,90 units per year of affordable housing being created that actually is we doing that uh doing that work I thought that was helpful for you to see the whole region so with that um mayor turn it back to you for these questions which is about the policies themselves or does the city have have any concerns about the draft comments that staff has identified all right thank you um Council I um frequently Julie coaches me and says well don't ask for questions but I think she's asking for questions T all about question do you have any questions KY I did um one of the questions um I had talked to Mike about this how many um 30% um homes have we had Inka in the last I guess five years have had any cuz I have I don't remember really saying that we've had any 30% new construction 30% conru yes not in 10 years no have we rehabed 30% yes and have we provided funding for 30% yes well the funding I'm I'm just wondering like motanka heights they have some apartments in there right down to 30% so different apartments throughout the city may have especially the older ones may have some 30% but not those are project-based housing had not vouchers there are vouchers in this community as well but not um those are section 8 based so is that how we get into 30% are are you counting it's a variety of ways I mean Section 8 uh Project based 30% units are some that's one way another way is tax credits another way is tax credits and Tiff another way is just Tiff but very seldom can you make a a project work for 30% on tip loone that just you've got to match it with some other funding source so with um met counil saying 752 units I mean are we able to get any if we haven't had none in the last 10 years how do we get to any right and so what are some I yeah I think you could get there um perhaps maybe if if you got a few of your units on a mixed use um project to be 30% like I said we got down to 40% with a project but we haven't been able to get to 30% because sometimes 30% depends they need services to go with it or there's complimentary Services supporting that housing uh that go with that unit so sometimes that's the um barrier to providing 30% but it just depends I think you could probably consider a housing Poli policy change that maybe they don't have as many units but they drop the Ami you could do that in your housing policy that' be one way but you're not going to create that many doing it that way it's going to be right drips and dribbles right other questions Becca Kimberly oh excuse me I'm sorry Kimberly you're you're behind ky's head I'm sorry Kimberly let me lean you back a little bit hi Kimberly Wilburn min city council at large apologies for uh being late had a minor family thing to take care of um and so apologies if you already covered this but could you explain um the the plans like why the 2050 plans starts in 2028 and only last 10 years and like the the naming and and and the timing and all of that stuff well I'm not sure I have a good answer other than other than it's required every 10 years right that's just the cycle and then for cities to catch up with the regional framework and I I would say I mean this is my I hate to say it it's my third time doing this so it's my third 30 years in I'm third decade into this I would say this is the strongest I've seen the regional framework than ever in the past um you know Thrive was pretty good I mean it was getting to some of the more difficult issues of the region the the time before that it was not as verbose and as specific as this so I would say it just gets better and better and that requires time and then that elongates the time frame in which we've got the regional framework and then get the city's plans done so I don't other than the state law I don't know so okay so um I did talk about this with Mike some so I the the thinking is that this 2050 plan which will start in 2028 will be for outcomes in 2050 is that correct that's where the 2050 comes from the way I like to describe it and I'm I'm going to read from this it's yes you have a 10-year update it's looking at a 30-year Horizon we're looking trying to look out 30 years ahead but it's really by the time we adopt it it's only 22 years left of that planning Horizon if that makes any sense so by the time we get to it the region has their framework they know what they're doing for the next 30 years how we're implementing that locally comes a little later so but if you think about planning Horizon and not so much about what year we adapted versus them and it just is easier in my brain to say it's a 30-year High timing uh planning Horizon what they don't make easy though is some of these numbers go back and forth sometimes you're talking about a 20-year number sometimes we talking about a 30-year number so you have to be careful when you look at this data make sure you know what decade you're you're looking at because it can get really confusing especially on the housing side because that's only 10 years of allocation so other questions Rebecca um thanks Brad the so C I have two questions one I found the um website and trying to like it kept saying draft and I was having a hard time really putting my fingers on finger on a lot of the what I would consider a draft clicked around a lot so I mean I would give that as a general feedback like if there's something a little more clear on what what exactly are we commenting commenting on I think that would be helpful just organizationally got it um but you know I think we did the best we could with what we had um so if we're you know we so Carill and medic and these companies that have hybrid employee I mean they're all still here right in minaka and so by the way they're counting employees presumably we've retained those employees whether they're coming to the city or not I mean is there I think about the the surveying that's being that we're do you know that the 494 quarter commission is doing and um some of this data that's kind of floating around out there is that being used in developing these projections or is I mean how do we kind of in this new world how are we doing the projections the same way we've always done it or yeah well they have a whole uh information actually I'm going to pass this out because I think there are a few questions about how the region gets to its forecasting I think I have a few extra for the audience members but um in the back it talks about employment um they they're charge slowing their growth um they look at past employment they look at Regional employment who's in our region who's getting you know expansions that sort of thing they look backwards and then they try to predict but I would say it's less clear on the employment side than it is on the population population's very easy to follow how their methodology works but employment is I I think it's harder to forecast I do and this whole teleworking thing hasn't helped but I always think about it as what is what is the impact to the regional system right what is the impact to sewer what is the impact to water what is the impact to um roads and all of the capacity issues not so much you know how did they figure out the number we're dealing with like what's happening in this community and then I'll just quickly I mean I agree on the on the 30% Ami like I told I'm going to I'm going to change what I told Mike earlier I said well I can say I want a billion dollars I don't actually want a billion dollars I can say I want 100 million doll and that's great and we could say we want 800 units of new 30% Ami but unless this is a systemic goal it's it just it seems even counterproductive because it's like you know when you see sometimes when you see those numb so I would you know I don't know if they can find a way to handle that and I'm like we need this but our realistic goals are this or we can get there through this yeah got it oh she's first okay okay thank you Julie um two questions to kind of follow up on that what first of all what does Staff feel or do you have an appropriate number that you feel is a better projection than what has provided or are you just unemployment yeah I I would say less than 10,000 or or you know I looked at some of the other communities around here I don't think Hopkins had a thousand maybe um so I was just trying to kind of comparing contrast but I would say at least four to 5,000 drop I would ask for um just so it seemed more tangible to me okay and then I mean following up on uh Rebecca's comment um I mean to me the 30% again we can ask and have all the as we want unless we have funding and support for doing this either funding or credits or some sort of major programmatic change does staff see any way that this is even remotely possible at this point unless we come up with a new housing model a program you know we have dorms for people um you know yeah I mean I I do think there are things on the horizon that make housing I mean the mayor and I have talked about modular construction uh that that can cut down the cost although then you're offsetting it with some of the sustainability stuff so it's kind of over the long term that's more affordable for the the end user but when the initial construction comes through we don't you know that's not there yet it's not even um I think that um changing the tax credit program federally would help that's not something the state can do uh State can influence it but I don't think uh it's the only way to address it and then thirdly some of the ways in which affordable housing are evaluated for funding and that can be anybody from met Council to henen County to uh the state or wherever you're getting the funds from they just need to to consider place like minono that are are doing well we're we're obviously strong in construction why is that funding not flowing as well to a place like menaka so I think changing the dynamic on how projects are evaluated but if those three things happen I do think we can I mean I'm amazed what we just did right 3 3,300 units of housing in the last 10 years of multif family and 30 some 35% of it affordable I mean that's amazing aming I didn't if you asked me 10 years ago no I didn't think that was possible but you changed a lot of your rules you Chang your policies we got some excitement about some of these projects so I think things can shift but um these are really big shifts right I mean and how many more opuses are we going to have coming exactly down well they're not going to give us any more land we know that yeah that's true too but also you know these are really big ships but it seems like affordable housing is a sh shift in this country too I mean you know what I mean like it's a big problem um but my questions were going to be like what have they been in the past what has the allocation what has the number yeah um oh let's see we've surpassed it for sure okay in the 30% range that's what I actually 30% um that's always a you know it's always a high number we can never get there but um in the last cycle they actually took away the stratification of the Amis so they didn't use 30 50 60 they just said anything under 80 and so it was a little bit different how they were tracking it from the last um band of housing uh affordability so they use life cycle and um affordable housing those are the two terms they use they went back to the banding in this um banding stratification whatever you want to call it um so this is we're back to where we were in the two cycles ago so okay okay so we we don't even know how to measure oh we do I mean we we absolutely know what we built in the last right yeah but I mean there's because it's like where where did they get the number 700 and some that's what I wanted well that's a whole another class allocation of need but I mean like there is a whole formula so there is a there's a study of what was needed in the region and then based on the geography of of what the Metropolitan area was 181 communities and then everybody's allocation of need is documented and there's a formula about how they got there but I'm I'm serious it's it's a quite a quite a presentation so it's not the same obviously for every no absolutely not it's not the same okay so they look at your population growth and your household growth and then the need of the region right that's about as simple as it can say are there so are they to lower that number do you think with your no they won't no but I think what I'll say I don't think they'll they don't redo the allocation of need and by the way when this is done um they'll actually send each Community the official allocation so sometimes about the timing so the first thing that happens is we get our system statement then we look at our system statement then we get our housing allocation statement then we and so there's more iterations of this data than right now so we'll continue to respond to the regional system statements that come out so um I was going to say that this isn't our last chance to say something but I think I'm trying to keep it pretty broad major stuff has to happen if you expect us to build it right Mike you want sorry mayor go ahead I think Mike want to say something but and I go ahead so my question is like when they're scoring projects if if we you know are there repercussions if we're not to Future Pro if we're not doing you know meeting their goals especially for something like 30% Ami which you know we've had projects that came yes we have that slipped through our fingers for 30% Ami 13 units as I recall and um I mean that was 13 units of holy like G just Holy Grail right which which evaporated and and um what are the repercussions if we don't meet does it start affecting our score when they're looking at a at a city like minaka that already doesn't sort of you know rate the kind of funding mechanisms that other cities how does that work actually our housing performance score is quite good and the reason it's quite good is because we do a lot lot of funding for a lot of different things and we produce a lot of housing so always our housing performance score we're in the top of the region so that I never am concerned about that what the tax credit program though is where that money needs to come from and that's not the same as the Metropolitan council's Regional policy so it's a little bit different it's the state's way in which they do out the federal tax credits and that's that's so much harder to change and I've got you know I've got a few ears there that I share my stories with I remember if you remember Shady Oak Road that Apartment project went in for tax credit funding three times and could not get funded and we ended up with less affordable uniter it's within walking distance of the Light Rail station I remember like a quarter mile out of the radius right how do we not qualify so you know and and so that that whole kind of scoring system which is fine I mean maybe there more worthy projects whatever and I'm not going to you know say our project was better or not but we had gone in and I thought well maybe at some point we would get funding but I think the problem is there's just not enough federal tax credits and therefore their hands are tied and they can't give out more money so it's and then that of course creates other issues so this sounds like a national league like taking it to the national league in okay Mike did you have comment you want to make thank you br I say before we get to the questions I think that's probably the next slide we got to get there assum the council's asked their questions um Julie could you I don't know if you can pull up if it's Miranda just pull up our housing dashboard sure I before you answer the questions on like what position should the city take just to put in the context where we stand today with 30% Ami housing I sure we looked I looked earlier today with a couple council members I think we're at like 200 some units right and so so if we could just put that in context J we just give you a flavor of again where we stand today and how that 752 kind of fits in with where we are today and then maybe Julie I'm gonna put you on the spot here in terms of a a potential response do we I gotta go up here sorry I also want to comment on how perhaps difficult it is to reach the 30% Ami and and look to maybe instead of 752 and 30% maybe it's saying that's unattainable to say something more along the fact we think more could be done in the 50% range the 60% range and so I think just showing some of that one those numbers will be helpful as well and my question for Julie while she's working on this too and maybe I'm asking for a multitask but I'm listening we in the in the past we didn't have the stratification they just had affordable housing goal and then they put the stratification in could we ask them to take it out I mean I you know I mean the irony of motanka is that the greatest need is is the is the part that's the toughest to get and having a goal that none of us think we can realistically get to unless there is a fundamental paradigm shift on where our money is coming from or how it's going to get done um in my experience in business having a goal that everyone knows is not going to happen is not good um having a goal that boy if we work hard and stretch we can and so my question is could we take that stratification away the way it was before or I think we have to almost flip-flop the numbers in terms of what they've laid on the chart i' I'd rather see the low number on the 30% and the other not because I don't believe in 30% but it's just not realistic for our city right so I'm gonna answer K's question first because you asked how much in the last 10 years right yes and you can always slide this bar over so I wanted to know like also like what it made up was it just like cuz you said we haven't been able to get it in the last 10 years so where is it froming so this isn't so this is the last 10 years I just slid the construction year over so if you just slide this bar back you can start seeing where it pops up so it's older you can see 28 just went in uh 58 and you can see minetonka Heights is probably showing up there because it's in the 1970s that was built you know so you just move the slider bar and you can tell what year anything was built and what year most of the affordable housing was built but if you just reset it so the answer to your question is it's older 30% naturally not naturally occurring but 30% housing there's still contracts sitting out there if they didn't have a contract sitting there we wouldn't call it 30% affordable housing unless it was contractually that way make sense yeah that means there still under that was that housing tax credit when you're talking sum housing tax credit summer HUD project base some are Tiff Su are okay interesting loans the city issued them in 1985 um we just had one come back it was yeah there there was lots of things going on that got was trying to build that housing so what was your question Mike so in terms of long the bottom so 291 units are my eyes are getting tested here maybe yours are as well three 291 units at 30% Ami right 754 units at 50% Ami 2186 at 60% and then 131 at 80% so that's our current composition as it is today over 10 years right no this is this is all toal okay total so if you wanted to say all of so what have we bu building in the last 10 years so those 4,000 is units of housing I got to go to 14 now look at the dials what change we were we can build all day long in the 60% right 50 is hard 80% is hard 30 is nonexistent yeah and I'm guessing that's true everywhere like you know what I mean like 30% I mean just look at the list who's been getting the tax credit oh I know but but I mean it's it's a more complex it's more complex time because we you know we live in a city where the um the median house price in our city is about 500,000 but if you went to build if you look at the average built house in the last in the last year it's not 500 it's 900 yeah so you you know there has been no affordable new construction single family housing in motanka in years there have been new houses but none is Affordable well I mean even when we talk affordable when we think about the Mills church project that was what almost $800,000 per well $620,000 a piece and we're selling them for $234,000 and the difference is taxpayer money it is you know that's sub yeah I mean subsidy it's just that's a reality and that's not sustainable to sit there and say for every affordable house we're going to have in minetonka one one way shape matter form um taxpayers are going to have to put $400,000 in doesn't pass the smell test so we got to find a better way we've veered off the question okay yes I'm gonna Veer you back Veer us back thank you I'm gonna Veer you back and so really I think I heard a few things and I think I can kind of synthesize what you're saying something about the affordable housing and trying to figure out how to deal with this 30% from a a more Regional standpoint um I also heard you say you agreed about the the employment I think I heard you say that and then generally being okay with the density numbers right did that number surprise you that we were actually so much higher no no not really I mean I think the key point that you made is and Mike made is that it's an average right you know and for a city that's essentially fully developed the numbers don't really matter um because we're so well within the expectation but I do know and I've talked to Mayors in cities that have a lot of vacant land and they see that density requirement changing they're they're going holy cow that fundamentally changes the whole world view on what our city is going to look like based on what it's looked like in the past and and so that's pretty significant for us you know it's probably not a big change yeah if you're talking to a and other City just I would ask their people their planners just do the look back and and educate themselves before they make comments because it it clearly isn't an issue here it's not something we need to have an issue about so if they've got problems with it they should do maybe some homework and see if it's really an issue because most ofi these it's not anyway so I've asked questions and are there any other comments or concerns that council members want to make regarding um our draft comments as you just summarize the only the only thing that that I keep thinking about is this sort of the the effect of remote work and like the employment numbers on you know we when we go to bat for things like affordable housing or just housing in general it's very often we're talking about Workforce housing and when we're not talking about you know adding employees to our city in the numbers that that they're projecting and if when we're going you know I it just it gets very hard to yeah and I think you know I just wonder where that also fits in in the the housing projections if employment and the projected jobs are part of the the formula which I imagine to a certain extent might be true but I do think that those numbers are really ambitious and I just think that people are starting I will say that traffic is is coming back to normal I know I know but it's still you know the workplace is not preco it's not the before times yet correct yeah I agree all right I'll maybe I'll soften that language a little bit I just want to make a comment um about the 30% um for me you know I've been asking this question forever and it only took me five years to realize that no we haven't had any 30% Ami no we're not going to get there unless something drastically change so I I like what the mayor said where for me I'm a realistic person I like to say what it is and what it is is that we cannot get to the 752 and I think we should make a statement about that and I think it's we should do it because it's clear that we can't do it so then now we can figure out some solutions versus just putting a number that we're never going to get to and then we can start putting pressure on Congress the federal folks who make these Federal decisions versus us just making it seem like we're working really hard which we are I know that our city is but we just can't get there and so it it I literally took me five years like right now like right the white bu just went off oh we're not going to get there you know so I think we should like really state that instead of keep saying oh we should get to 30% I've been saying it for five years so the light will just went off right now right there you go yeah you know and I just want to add to what KY said because and I talked about a little bit today with Mike you know I've worked in business for a long time and I've always had stretch targets and if you don't stretch you don't grow and I and I believe that but I've also been parts of organizations where the plan is so far out of the realm of possibility that people go through the motions because they have to do their jobs but they know they can't get there and so they really don't try and I think that's the that's the balance I mean should we stretch and should it be hard absolutely because what we're talking about is important but if we put a goal there and live with it and none of us believes we're going to get there in we're certain we're not going to get there and we're going through the motions then we are doing a real disservice and we're not going to get everything we could get if we had a realistic goal that we could stretch towards so you know it's I mean it's there's a little double talk in there but I really think it's important to get these goals right so that we're working on something that we believe we can get to and you know if we're if we're falling short and we need a little more I mean we're going to be really aggressive about asking how can we get more if we believe in it if we don't believe in it we're probably going to shrug our shoulders and say let's go work on something else so I think it's an important Point okay I'll be I I think from all your comments I'll just be a little bit delicate about how to address that obviously it's needed but how we get there is just so unclear at this point and I can say the reasons why right perfect good anything else anyone would like to add on that thanks for letting me okay is that are we are we good on that topic we are thank you all right so that brings us to the next item three 3B which is roles and responsibilities for volunteer community interest groups and um you know I can turn over to Mike but I'm I'm just going to make a make a couple of comments because I I read this I read our staff report I know we've gotten some feedback from um from residents and from groups and this I think came up I mean none of the things on our agenda are here um without the council wanting them here I mean so this this came up but we we looked at this a number of time a number of months ago and we were I think going through a period where staff and councel and groups were we struggling a little bit with input and it's it's a it's a little bit of a challenge and uh each of us kind of staying in our lane to a certain degree um staff does its job and and it has its job to do Council has its job we have to focus on policy we don't have to get execution and then we've got these wonderful volunteer groups who really really make a difference in our city and really help us from a volunteer perspective but we all have opinions and sometimes I think that we get more executional than we should and we don't stay in our lane and and it was creating some dissonance and I think we've come a long ways from where we were when this was first put on the agenda so I read the staff report I talked to Mike I I I talked to um Rebecca and I thought you know what let's have I don't know if we need to dig into a lot of detail on this I think we're in so much better a place now than we were maybe when this got popped on the agenda and I don't want to cut anybody off on this topic but I think I'd really kind of like to do a once over lightly on this because I think we're in a pretty darn good spot in our our relationships and our and are working we're working pretty well if somebody has a different opinion I don't want to cut anybody off but I also don't want to get all involved in a lengthy detailed conversation um on a problem that is not won't ever raise its ugly head again but but one that we've got largely resolved or solved so that's my preliminary comment I don't know if anyone wants to add anything or Mike if you have anything you want to say but I don't think we need a lot on this but go ahead Rebecca yeah thanks mayor I'll I'll just comment I mean I talked to Brad today and I you know I had a lengthy conversation with Mike about this you know I think this stemmed from a conversation probably that Mike and I had about a year ago I'm not sure I think um maybe some all of us as individual stakeholders the council the volunteer groups and the staff maybe take different components away and and from of about maybe some of the past issues and maybe anticipated issues going forward I'm not sure that the staff report totally hits on uh it it gets interpreted I think by each of these groups of State stakeholders maybe a little differently and I think um to Brad's point maybe digging we might be doing ourselves a disservice by getting too nuanced at this point on this conversation I think um some of these things have worked their themselves out there's a learning curve for all of us um in how things go and um that's not to say nobody's ever going to do something that somebody might disagree with myself included and I think you know we we can afford some Grace to folks for that but um my my inclination would be honestly maybe more unintended harmful consequences could come from digging too deep into this conversation today um than it than good is is kind of my thoughts so any other go ahead I was just going to ask so what does that mean because right now we have this information that we these questions so does that mean that we're not going to answer the question what does that mean to mean to say that I don't understand well kind what I was what what I was proposing is that you know to the point I made earlier I think I think we found ourselves after after some you know kind of bumps in the road we we found ourselves in a pretty good place and I think we uh um Everybody gave a little bit and there was a little bit of a tug and pull um so my thought is we would bypass the discussion questions today but then if individual council members have some concerns or issues or want to share those with Mike it's not to say we'll never we'll never tackle this but I my thought is that we're um we're probably not going to accomplish a lot in a discussion today um but we don't have to drop it but I thought we could move on and um and do the other things and um but if anyone wants I mean if there's any concerns that anyone wants to raise now we can do that or the follow-up thing would be to to work with staff and work with Mike and and share any thoughts or concerns on how we can improve and and do better because we always want to do better um and um and kind of leave it at that so that was I don't know if that answers your question that does answer my question but I feel like if we're going to do that then we should remove it from this packet like we should strike it out or somehow because if we're not going to discuss it and we're just going to let it bypass to me that saying that we're going to just let it be what's noted and then we're just GNA allow whatever happens to happen what's stated in the report so I think to me it just doesn't feel right to just say let's bypass it because it's like it's saying we're going to accept what it's said I think we could probably have the minutes reflect the comments kind of a tabled yeah I mean again but go ahead so so like following up just to be clear we're we're saying we're not making changes to we're going to continue doing things the way we've been doing things well I'd say I'd say what the way we've been doing things lately I think we've made I think we've made some significant progress there and we're not I mean we're not making any policy tonight but the the question is do we think that there's any action that needs to be taken and and in reality I think a year ago when when this thing first popped up we were people were kind of tearing their hair out there were a lot of issues that we were concerned about I think we've really made a lot of progress and that took effort on everyone's part staff um volunteer groups councel and I think we're in a better spot so kind of my takeaway is I'm not I'm my crystal ball is not so good as to say that we're never going to have any issues but I think we don't need to we don't need to solve this problem now we've largely solved it for now but let's be aware that it was put on the agenda and if somebody wanted to bring it back on the agenda they can if you have any specific concerns you want talk about talk to staff about and have staff share with the council we can do that if we need to put it back on another study session agenda we can do that um I think my takeaway was that it it's not necessary tonight okay so um and I'm not saying I'm right I'm saying that's one person's opinion so I will just say and and um I don't want to put you on the spot but I'm put going to put you on spot um because Mike is the one that has to hear me all the time tell him things that I want to see happen right and so like if he feels like it's too much you know with individual council members at different times saying you know like I've been talking about C tool and what what what can happen around that so like would you prefer that or or are I mean yeah what's your preference go ahead Mike voice well I first off I just want to say um you do have an agenda addenda I should have mentioned at the very onset of the meeting so there is I do make sure it's reflected in the record that there is an agenda so item related to this item 3B there were two comments made after the repac it went out so you'll see those in your um agenda that's on your iPad through I legislate um in terms of answering the question again I go back to you I think it's been pretty well articulated here by a few council members and the mayor about how we got here and so I think we winding the clock there were I think to the point there was a little more consternation amongst I think everyone a year ago I say everyone staff whether it was working with some of the groups that we work with um it's it's none of this was aimed at one particular group because there are a variety of groups that we work with and so with the group that's I say with the groups we work with with um council with staff with the groups there was consternation and because I think when you look at the last five years whether it's post pandemic the world has changed in a lot of different ways this was one of them just in terms of um groups coming to the city for whatever reason that they were coming to the city change it's all it changed and evolved and I think it put a lot of us kind of caught probably a lot of us off guard of how to respond and how to react and how do we best work with everyone considering there's a lot of different requests coming our way and so when this came up a year ago we we uh I think it it got brought up and I had a slide prepared tonight we don't have to I don't think we need to go through it tonight uh but just to show that history because it was about a year ago when there was more of that consternation as I would call it that when I talked with council member Shaq we brought it to the December 2020 my year is Right December 23 study session where we framed up then the work plan for 2024 and so you got it was part of that construction of um starting in that December 23 December of 2023 study session it came back to the council then in in the January study session where we had our two new Council members uh that were part of then framing up um the priorities that were going to take place this year and so that was all um decided in that January study session Council approved it um in January I think it was the January 23rd or so meeting for the study session for for this entire year so here we are now it's nine months later and I think as to the points that have been made a lot of positive movement has has happened U there's a I can't remember the author now where um when it comes to new groups and perhaps some of you have heard this before where you go through kind of sometimes there's the storming and then there's performing and norming so there's probably some of that storming that was kind of happening as everyone got a foothold of of how we all interface better together and so I think we're in a much better place today again this was put on the agenda nine months ago and so here we are today and so I guess the question is do we do you want to proceed with the conversation or not I can tell you what I've shared with a few of counil members that this was a hard staff report to write um because I mean just we had different interest groups and I think there was some How It Was Written was meant to be very just kind of upfront and honest and no aiming at one particular group but I think everyone there might have been some different takeaways um whether you're a councel or perhaps staff or perhaps a interest group when you went through the staff report the the idea was to have a conversation on just some of the challenges that there have been and you know how do we work through those um just to make sure that we limit frustrations moving forward because I think everyone would agree there there's plenty of frustrations perhaps over a year ago and have worked out and we just want to try to avoid that for everyone's benefit and so that was really kind of the idea behind it and certainly that's what we're prepared to talk through tonight but if if we're feeling okay about it let's let's see where we are in the next few months and if we want to decide to bring it back in 2025 we can any Rebecca I'll just make one you know it's interesting to hear Kimberly because everybody that I've heard from or you know in the conversations with with Brad and Mike and res you know folks I think everybody had read this report I mean and said oh my God this is targeted at me I did this and so I think that's part of why I mean that came up more here in Kimberly kind of say oh God this is because of the what I've been asking Mike for and so I think that goes to the point of maybe you know we're personalizing it and and I know F you know I know some groups are feeling that way too and and I'll assure them it's you know there's there there's been a lot that's gone on um and so I that's it feels a little sensitive to me and that's part of the reason that I think maybe you know um having either you know one-on-one conversations with Mike about how we could better interact directly as individuals I'm just not sure that trying to generalize some of it is the most productive way to um be efficient well and I'll I'll just add to Rebecca's comments I mean so I read the staff report um and um and it made me somewhat uncomfortable for this very reason because you know we appreciate I mean understanding roles is important um you know I know Mayors who get elected we have a council manager form of government as the mayor I get one vote just like everyone else all the other council members but I I know mayor's new mayors in some cities that have um Council manager forms of government and the and the city manager is the CEO of the city basically well they want to be strong Mayors they want to be Jacob fry and want they want to run the city and there's I think there's a lot of Mayors who want to run the city if you will that's not my job my job I've got one vote and my my job is provide some leadership but I don't run the city the the city manager runs the city but I think the challenge is that when we get passionate about issues we kind of like to stretch our roles you know as a council member we are policy makers but guess what sometimes we kind of want to we kind of want to get behind the the steering wheel of stoni and and drive the Sam Zamboni or whatever it is and and I think it's important for us to understand our roles but also understand that we have the same goals we want to improve the city and we want to work collaboratively so I got in uncomfortable I talked to um Rebecca and she's said I'm and and I'm thinking you know what that doesn't mean this issue isn't relevant or important but I also think that we're probably you know we might be picking at some scabs here tonight too and I don't want to do that I'd rather provide feedback and if we need to bring this thing back again we will but I also think we're in a much better place and and if we were in the place that we are now when we were putting our um Council agendas together for the year or for the study sessions I don't think this would have made the list but we we were going through some kind of challenging times then and and we thought it was a good idea I think I think I'd rather I like this idea of sharing our concerns with Mike if there's anything that comes up and we we always want to work to improve we always do Pat you have something you don't have to I just thought you were looking like you want to say I did want to know about back to the staff report and there was some concerns in the agenda about like naming organizations as as um advocacy groups and that kind of thing and that will that be sort of done and laid to rest and so like that's not what we're going to say they are I mean do you know what I'm talking about like there was some issues about that like we're not an advocacy group we're not this and I just want to be clear that that's not going to come up again or but do you know what I mean like are we like that's not going to be the the permanent label like that label or what you know what I mean well not really um I mean because I don't think we per se label things I mean that the challenge is okay you have a group that's that is advocating for an issue in the city I mean okay what are they I mean are you know I mean I frankly I I haven't really thought about definitions I mean there were some things identified but I think part of the challenge is there's not a real defin there I don't think there is a definition of any of those types of things and you know sometimes you know so I think there's some formal groups I think there's informal groups and and all different types of individuals and groups care about what the city council is doing and they want to influence us in a certain way I'm not sure how to label them I might in one conversation say well such and such is a is is an advocacy group and another another time I say Well they're a volunteer group or there another I don't I don't have terminology down that I that I would use there isn't really there's no formal termin terminology and that's what I wanted to be clear is there formal ter you know what I mean like there's nothing not that I'm aware of okay I mean I haven't read my Civics book lately there there may somewhere there is but I not that I that not I don't think there's a A glossery in the city for what what different groups um what represents different groups I'll just say that you know Mike and I this this was kind of the Crux of our conversation and the thing is having having joined the council at a time when many many controversial issues just started happening because we're finally you know fully de veloped and you know I I think that we have learned a lot of things as staff and councel in terms of dealing with it and I expressed some of the things that that you know I've been thinking about concerning um not even just like you know not labeling groups but just like when issues come up and people are passionate about issues how do how do we help people communicate with each other on each side and I and so Mike knows how I feel he is the CEO I am just a member of the board and I have expressed you know some of those things and I think those are the kinds of things that we will continue to talk about as individual Mike knows you know I have some thoughts about things to just keep on massaging those positive outcomes and um which is what we all want and I think we are starting to get and so um I'll just leave it at that you know if if that's where we're at I'm really I'm really okay with that because Mike and I talk about some of these things periodically anyway Paula um I'm gonna kind of be take uh Kimberly's role as the problem child tonight because I think in all the time that we've spent talking about whether we're going to talk about this right we could have just said stated our opinions I actually thought deeply and a lot about this over the last few days and you know I actually wrote something down kind of journaled it and I'm just going to say it because it's going to take two minutes go for and I'm going to put my position out there because I think I don't I'm not going to play this Minnesota passive aggressive game I'm just gonna go out and say it so I think regarding the two questions if you want to put them up or not that's fine I said I think it would be probably be helpful and I told Mike this um this morning helpful to have clear information on procedures and guidelines and parameters for groups interacting groups and staff interacting with each other but I do feel it's up to council members to set uh their own parameters and guidelines and how they interact with volunteer groups in that regard I also agree that council's statutory role is Big Picture ordinances resolution budgets EIP CIP Etc however I feel that the line can also be fuzzy between policies and operationalizing them plus just as staff advocates for major policies and ordinances that it feels are in the best interests of the community council should also be able to occasionally weigh in on more minor issues that we nonetheless feel are important while we cannot and should not direct staff we can and in my opinion should be able to question and Advocate about them via mic privately and even to use our bully pulpit to respectfully do so publicly and even if that runs counter to staff opinion and practice that is simply representative democracy and part of the deal we all do not have to publicly agree on everything it does not mean for me I'm going to say this personally that I do not respect or like staff or my other fellow council members members this is just a part of the process that has in inherent tensions built into it and I think we all need to put our big boy and big girl pants on and that includes the community organizations as well as council members and staff and be willing to listen respectfully to each other act within guidelines and uh you know kind of put the best interest and realize we're not all going to get whatever we want all the time so I've said my piece thank you there it is there anyone else and I like you all I may not agree with you all and I'll tell you when I don't and I may get up and use the bully pulpit if I don't like I did at the last joint park at board meeting when I still feel that sign should have been put up in purgatory Park clarifying the current ordinance that doesn't mean if you know staff comes to me and says this is why and I can pass that on I will but if I feel like I'm sorry that reason doesn't make sense to me I'm going to pass that on as well very good anyone else KY I was going to say um you know me coming from an organizer background I really feel like we should be able to have groups organized in our community the way they've been doing um I don't feel uncomfortable and that's just me as personal I don't get uncomfortable when groups organize or even come to the council um I did talk to Mike about yeah um we have to be prepared for it but to put in too many any policies and procedures to me that start to take away Freedom um and it it it it makes you go through a lot of red tape you know and I just don't feel comfortable saying um to add more red tape I think yes there was attension yes people got uncomfortable but I'm like I you know as a black woman I'm uncomfortable all the time and I think we have to get uncomfortable and I think that's residents people are going to make us feel uncomfortable and I think that is is okay um we like Paula said best you know we just got to I call it put on our soldier boots and just be but um I think she said big girls and big boy pants all right well that's all right Bo I didn't think my hearing was going bad but I it was right it was right but I just changed a little bit but no I I I truly believe that um I'm okay with how things are being ran right now like yes that we going get uncomfortable at times or people got uncomfortable but I'm okay with how things are right now I you know yeah and I guess I would I would add um you know part of our jobs is to be uncomfortable if if we wanted to be comfortable then we shouldn't be doing this so you know I think I think that's part of it but but I think the other point is and and you just said it is that yeah we we were we went through some tough spots but I think we're in a pretty good spot now um let's not let's not beat that horse but let's not also there's going to be times who are in uncomfortable spots again let's not be afraid to ra raise this issue again and in the meantime you know communicate with Mike and he'll communicate with staff and and and yeah I totally agree we don't always agree all the time but I think we have to be willing to get uncomfortable to uh to do our jobs well so anything else Mike I don't know if you want to say anything or if we want to move on and let's see excuse me Kimberly yeah just real quick so um I I'm fine with like letting this go and and and not making any Chang is my own and I was contacted by someone who was concerned that it could turn into sort of a gatekeeping situations where groups weren't weren't weren't heard um and weren't able to you know affect change in the city so uh my concern is what the followup for when we have advocacy groups come before the council with whatever they're coming before the council with that's not something that for the that's a policy thing for Council to act directly on like what happens after the me you know what happens with that group as far as interactions with that group and that's not something we have to figure out right now and that's like part of the why I bug Bank on things but it's just something to keep in mind that like how do we make sure that groups are being heard and that if if they need a response from Council how how do we make that happen if it's not policy related or a policy you know statutory um it's I mean you know I mean my attempt at an answer is I think that we are I mean our jobs is to talk to our residents whether it's an individual or um or a group um you know my my the phone number that is on the uh on the city website is my cell phone I take calls anytime and uh you know I I want to be I want to be open and reachable and I don't think I'm any different than any of my other council members and you know I mean you know typically when you talk to groups no you really talk to individuals and you talk to council members you're talking to individuals and I think that if an issue for a group is important they're going to contact all of us and share their opinions and and I want to encourage that I mean this is about dialogue this is about um about being accessible and it's about listening and uh and so I I I think that's the best way um for groups to to move something forward that they're advocating for is to give us each a call and tell us what we think um I will even ADI I will further advise groups that or individuals who write to us it is much more powerful to receive an individual email than it is to receive an email that's addressed to all the council members because when I get an email that's addressed to all the council members I think well I should let the ward council member handle that um it's not it's not important for me to do it if I get something that says Dear mayor weome and it's exactly the same that you've written everyone else then it's an individual email and that has much more impact um the IM the the emails that in my view and that's one person's opinion emails that get written to the whole Council have much less impact than the same email written to me as an individual doesn't take that much more work to cut and paste it but you'll have much greater impact so since we're as far down the road as we are I will say that the my this is this is the one thing that I mentioned to Mike over the years there have been a variety of issues that have come before the city and there have been groups of people that took a particular position on an issue sometimes it was literally something that they wanted to see might be something that's on the ballot or just to change to something that we're doing and they organized and they advocated and they came for the city and the one thing that that I think eventually may we may want to talk about or you know I will just keep talking to Mike is at what point when you have a strong group of people that have that are aligned in their viewpoint on a particular issue how do we inform War people on the other side you know at what point does the rubber meet the road where saying okay this is an issue you know this is something that is not going to go away and they're going to want some kind of action or response from the city and so the one thing that I was thinking is at what point and in what Manner do we bring it forward to people who who may perceive it as say a solution in search of a problem like we have people that you know are passionate about something and they they want something to happen and the rest of the people in the city it's just like didn't bother them so they weren't paying attention but then when it comes forward then it's a problem and so it's it's you know just thinking as a as as uh the quote unquote legislators and staff you know what point do we realize that okay you know we sort of reached critical mass this isn't going to go away how do we communicate out what what has been communicated to us how do we begin the discussion if it's something that's going to change the way we do something in the city and that was really the Crux and then just making sure that we boil down information to to the people that are coming to us with concerns and I I I I'll just use a very simple uh example at the very first like open meeting about a when when we decided to look for a place for the mount for the mountain bike trail there was some assumption that people knew what a mountain bike was and that at some point I said to staff you know if you might want to just tell people in the room what a mountain bike is because I'm not sure that everyone knows and so they did and then somebody at my table stood up and said oh it's not a motorcycle oh I don't need to be here I just want home so you know just just you know just sort of keeping things simple making sure that people have the basics on really important things because sometimes it just takes something that simple and just sort of getting on people's level so those were the things that I was thinking about it wasn't so much about you know putting sideboards on anything but really sort of how do we open it up and really have that dialogue so I'll just leave it at that does anyone else have anything to say on this topic we're not talking about tonight um all right I will um um we've got more agenda to go to so um thank you all BR I just add okay not to belabor the conversation my apologies but I um I do want to make a couple things things clear at least for those that might be watching or listening that again this conversation was not staff driven I mean this was something that came up through the council's conversation during the study session work planning and so that was the hard part I think I go back to writing a staff report because um there's just different perspectives and so we as staff also want to be honest and upfront with the Council on some of the challenges that we see from a staff level because part of having a productive conversation is knowing the issues that there are and so I think the other thing just worth noting is that um what what's key to all of our success is trusted relationships and trusting working together and we have that um yet I think going back to what Kimberly and I think Deb just alluded to I do think there are even though things are in a good place today I do think there are times when things are going to percolate up again whether it's with some of the groups that we work with today or a group that's we haven't heard from yet and so I I do think that's where some of the challenge lies in and that's that was really kind of the intent behind the way that the staff report was written was to kind of shape out and really kind of flush out what some of those challenges are it's not it's discouraging to hear some of the I think people read it and had some really negative takeaways that I think Kimberly said someone contacted you and said there's some Gateway blocking it has nothing to do with any type of red tape other than knowing that when when residents reach out to whether it's Council whether it's I think alluded to an individual email you might get from someone an email that staff might get from someone email that goes to a mayor and a council member and a staff member an email that goes to a staff staff and a council member I mean there's there's all different ways that people communicate whether it's email a phone call coming to a meeting so I think it is understanding that when we get all those different Communications and different requests how do you as a councel respond to those whether it's a group email that comes to you whether it's a one-on-one email whether it's an email that includes a staff member so how do we all communicate and what is the flow of communication and that and what do we and not only just the flow of communication what can we commit to doing understanding that there are different roles and responsibilities and so that was that was the purpose of the conversation was to really not create a a harder working environment to really talk about what are some of the real challenges and then how do we prepare for those in a way that you can respond to a resident or a group and staff can too so we're on the same page because I felt at times it's been hard to be on the same page because you get emailed meanwhile someone's getting blind copied on something uh a council member is going to respond and then send it to me and I see it and so there there's just there's I think in this today's world of communication that's where some of the challenges have been is just who who are the voices we're talking to and how can we as a city help um residents or groups when they do Reach Out navigate it in a way so they know that their voices are being heard because that's ultimately the goal here is is to hear from groups how do we as a city then kind of funnel them through a process so everyone knows they're being heard they're not being dismissed their concerns are being taken seriously and yet at the same time knowing that it's also there's some there's some hardness in all this because it's we we can't also say yes to everything we don't want to say no to everything and so how do we then kind of flush all that out that was really the basis of tonight's conversation thanks Mike I hesitate to say this but anything else all right um so um assuming there's nothing else on that matter um we're going to go to the Strategic Plan update on a very important topic a key part of our strategic plan community inclusiveness and I will turn that to Mike or Jace or um yeah thank you Brad I'll I'll just kick it off we're going to do a quick couple handoffs here so I'll kick it off for 10 seconds or so then hand it over to Miranda and then I think she'll do a quick hand off to Jace we are in our fifth now study session where we're talking about one of our strategic plan priorities tonight is community inclusiveness and with our Jace leads our that pillar as often we call it so we'll turn this over to Jason in a few seconds but again just to give you a sense of where we're at next month in October we have our last uh pillar coming forward that is natural resources and environment so that's coming forward uh next month and so between will and Miss yka they will be here on that one and so we're getting closer there's a lot of building in this as you know we started back in April and yeah um I'm gonna have you finish up and then I'm going to say we're going to take a f minute break because I've been I've gotten some I've gotten a few body language indications that we probably could use one so wrap up and then and then we'll take a break for five minutes sounds good thank you Brad U sorry about that no no that's right and so really just want to turn over to Miranda who has been the lead on this pillar for the last or this re iteration of the Strategic profile also want to recognize oh Sissa is very instrumental in this Sissa is really she keeps all of us in line when it comes to our strategic profile and we appreciate all of her efforts reason I say this and you'll hear me say this a couple more times for the year is up so next month is our sixth pillar and then in December we between then in October's study session and December uh staff will be spending a couple days working on action steps refining continue to refine the metrics that you've uh seen here tonight and in the previous uh study sessions and then when this comes to in December as as a whole package uh we'll have that presentation at that time and I'll get into all the reasons why this is all important which I know already you already know okay before Miranda goes how I hate to be rude let's take a five minute break we'll come back quickly and um and move on I'm looking forward to this that's a big trip to not get that's what I keep saying to myself that's what kind of are you ready we're good and some nice weather a little bit nicer than a minute talk in December I don't know all right everyone we will uh we will get started and um so I know we are on the Strategic Plan update Community inclusiveness Mike thank you for your introduction and I believe you we're going to Miranda next yeah thank you Mary Council I wanted to mention that during the council Retreat Kelly and I and py worked on this together the iteration you're going to see tonight is much different than the three of us worked on that uh day we of course didn't have Jace with us and we were able to sit down together and ruminate a little bit more on it so this sitation is much different than what we talked about that day and I think it's in a much better place so with that I'll turn it over to Jason cersa all right hi Council it's good to see you all again um so let's see okay here's what I'm going to run you through all of them and then um and then I'll take questions after I run run you through each of them if that's cool with you um so for Community inclusiveness uh what we have right now is build and engage accepting and compassionate community that Embraces diversity and uses varied perspectives to create an inclusive and Equitable City for for everyone and and I know um at The Retreat there was talking about I think like a connected welcoming community and so um as we think about when and where we can State what it is exactly we're trying to get to um in spaces that allow it I think it's usually best to do so um and so that's that's why you see that language there um and then so for the first one alcome are we're going for is hoping that all people feel welcome and engaged um and then when we look at the performance metrics for that um what we talked about was uh trying to track the number of opportunities and spaces to Foster belonging um number of surveys provided to community members number of sensory friendly options at events and and trying to incorporate American Sign Language at at some of the events that we're hosting um again a lot of what we're doing is creating a baseline um because either we haven't done some of these things before or we've done them but kind of in different iterations and so um a lot of that you'll see is like we I'm just trying to get a better sense of you know for the events that we're doing and we're gr uh who's showing up who's not showing up why um and so that's where you see like some of that survey that's what I'm trying to figure out with that um and then the target is to increase the opportunities and spaces provided um try to put a number on how many surveys um at events I'm doing per year uh and then again how many times are we offering sensory friendly options at City run events U for the next one we have a enhanced Community representation through ART and imagery and and I'm sure you've seen already walking through here there's been a lot of there's been a lot of art updates um which who doesn't love art it's all great um so the performance metrics there um looking at public art and cultural events that represent diverse cultures so that could be anything from music and dance to painting to Clay whatever you could think of um and what we'd be looking at the percentage of commissioned artists um from underrepresented groups making sure that we're getting a good variety of of artists um as we do things together uh and then Community representation through through social media I know I've talked with the communication team about uh trying to reach the younger demographics and like what might that look like and and who might we call on to do things like that as we're trying to reach the younger folks in our city um and then so the target for that would be to increase Community representation across public art cultural events uh commission artists and social media and then finally we've got uh create Equitable opportunities for accessing programs um and services by identifying demographics and removing barriers so again as I'm talking about trying to create that Baseline who's in our city where are they and trying to use an equity lens as we're getting communication out to these different pockets of people um because it it one size fits all doesn't always work so how can I Target this group specifically what do they need um versus this group and this pocket of the city um with that uh and again using our GIS trying to identify underrepresented groups um and then demographic participation in programming and services again who's who's showing up um you know who has memberships at the marsh at Willison who's in our programming who goes to safety day with PD all those fun things um and then uh that would also include our Ace Program participants and so uh the target there again is going to be to increase our demographic percentage uh we're going to try to fully staff our Ace Program each year uh and then increase diversity in the applicant pool for that so this year we had more interns for eight last year I think we had one a intern and this year we had like six five we had five so we're going in the right direction so thinking about um you know as we have funds available if we're not filling positions if we can't fill all of Public Works um you know depending on who the lead is for each program like I could take another Dei person if there's an interest and we already had a open slot so thinking about how can we get the most uh folks through the door is what we'll look at for that Target okay so um I'm open any questions that you have and is if it's more helpful for me to leave this up I definitely can no no leave up the questions for right now but then we can I mean well I don't know do do people have the chart or would you like the chart is more helpful because otherwise I don't know what I'm affirming okay okay well then then then go to the Chart I stand corrected I I I can I can pull up the questions so I've got them on my iPad so please do it that way that sounds good so first one does the city council affirm the description for community inclusiveness so Council your thoughts on that question I think it's I'll just say it's a little bit wordy but you sold me on your description of of why you kind of expanded it and I'm I'm comfortable with that that makes sense yeah other comments you know Jay as you were presenting this the the thing that um I appreciated is that you have expanded my thought I won't speak for anyone else my thought on what inclusiveness represents and I think that's that's really important um we we want you know our actions tell people where our values are and things like having um accessible restrooms and using American Sign Language and demonstrating that people who we may not see every day need to be part of our inclusiveness and as a parent of disabled children I mean I've I've been exposed to a world that a lot of people don't know exists and I think your definition of inclusiveness really does a nice job of that and and so I I I want to commend you on that I'm I'm supportive as well thank you mayor um I would say that for me I'm I'm you know I was I was a musician not a visual artist but um the Arts are just super important to me and first of all I just think that um a society Without Beauty is a sick Society so it's just been really fun to come into the community center now and see beautiful art and see people represented that have not been represented so um that's something that I noticed before we even were um going over this plan and so that's something that I you know personally really really appreciate and I I mean just so many things that I see on the posters as I'm leaving the community center about the kinds of things that we're doing to show that we're we're already doing this so I definitely um I also think that the strateg there might be a way to wordcraft and get the same we might be able to knock that uh the Strategic priority description down by a couple of words and make it a little bit but um I think it's it's an important priority and it and it does capture everything we need to capture so I think that's one thing I think the outcomes are um the outcomes that we need um I do agree that that they are and um what was the third question performance metrics and Target metrics uh yeah I mean I think I think um I think the way you described about how we're going to determine those things I think it's uh appropriate thanks have other thoughts um KY I just wanted to know what is the Ace Program yeah so the Ace Program is uh the program we run uh in partnership with the City of Hopkins and so uh for those interns there has to be some kind of barrier to access right whether you're uh maybe a young person of color there's a socioeconomic barrier uh there's a language barrier maybe you're first generation whatever the case may be there's a there's a large swath um but so we're specifically trying to target folks that have some kind of barrier to to access to different programming and so um then we have in the St so like I had a Dei intern this year through the Ace Program and then I had my own Dei interns that were like college level folks so there it can be a wide range I think the youngest that we had was 16 17 um all the way up but then we have people in public works we have people in Community Development we have people in admin so all across the city we're trying to fill these slots um to gauge the interest of of the kids that apply or the youth um is this for advanced students this Ace Program when you say Advanced what do you mean like kids that score high you say college level students no can they have a IEP and be eligible for this program an IEP would count as a barrier okay to access um okay cuz I was under assumption that this program was for advanced students and so um long long as it's not that um then I'm totally okay with the program yeah good this is might be paty so so are you surveying community members at the events or about each event or like do you know what I mean it says survey community members events each year survey which one you under this is on the target the first Target yeah sorry survey community members at blank events each year so um how many events am I actually like have a survey out for folks that are there and asking them questions like hey like why are you here today what what made it so you could come today and then I'm also taking note of who isn't here right but and just again trying to create a baseline so that I have some data to actually base my action steps and my targets off of because right now I'm I'm kind of just you know I'm here I'm there I'm looking at stuff but I would like to have some more concrete data for me to make some true action steps in trying to continue to diversify and continue to create inclusive spaces so but I need that Baseline first yeah that's awesome other other questions I just have Kimberly just looking I can and I know it's not our job toward Smith but if you want to condense it a little bit Yeah you could say um community that Embraces diversity and varied perspectives okay get rid of the and uses takes word uses out get to that's great any other other comments yeah I I I'll just add I think yeah I I like it and and to your point I appreciate how you're trying to quantify things but quantifying things with no Baseline is not much information so you're trying to get that Baseline L establish you're trying to quantify it and then we can measure performance and I think that's exactly the right thing to do anything else Paula yeah just I appreciate um following up the expansive you know expanding our our vision of what inclusiveness means and what diversity means um to you know include people that we don't necessarily always see out and about in the community whether that's you know people who are other a and things like that so I think that's an important thing us to be embracing so thank you for that absolutely and and I I will say that the the pictures in the hallway of the the different representing different people in our community different typical people in our community I think that's really a nice touch and when the when that art was going up then the artist was here I happened to be around and I chatted with her she did point out council members that she does portrait U she does portraits if you're interested I told her that the mayor doesn't need one but I might have council members who may so uh anyway but um but she was uh um I I just think that that has really added a lot and it makes a real statement about her inclusiveness so I really appreciate it Mike yeah just I would just say again compliments to jce and Miranda siss for really working on this what ex I'm just going to say this what excites me about this one than that we haven't seen before in our in our current strategic profile is that that second one enhancing Community representation through ART and imagery and I think for those that were at the league of Minnesota City's conference we heard that from a number of speakers that just how art can influence culture in your community and um and I think couple Council memb have brought up examples of where art could show up in our community and so I think we this is a real Focus yeah uh on perhaps art in our community more so than just in our facilities but public art where we have some murals I think Julie pointed out some mural that we had on our tour here recently so how do we expand that in our community and use that to our um towards beating this scho so I think it's a real shift and just like what our approach will be when it comes to community being on the places committee throw that in there that we're going to be making decisions on public art around the light rail so and you know there's I mean you know I get I get emails from people who uh want to sell murals to the city um but um and you know we probably all get some of that stuff but you know as I walk down the hallway and we have the history of minona depicted on those panels along and and I've read those I've seen people do that but the thought of if there are places where we could put murals that tell the history of our community um you know what a what a powerful thing and then you know you know the the people we put in those um you know to demonstrate our commitment to um a diverse population a historical population and but the fact that we value everyone we show people who may have a disability and look at that as a strength not a weakness and and that's part of who we are I think I think those are powerful images anything else all right well thank you Jay good thank you Sissa thank you Miranda thank you Mike so if I can find my agenda again um so yeah um October study session uh topics and we have a sheet on that Mike you want to put that up but we don't have too many more we're getting down to our last three blocks so go take hard to imagine we're going to be entering our fourth quarter of 2024 and so the items that are scheduled for October 14th are noted there um the first bullet point city manager review process if you have questions on that Miranda's can speak on that that is something I'm not involved in but I think this really if I'm understanding correctly stems from last December I think when I had my last performance review there were some comments I think made by Council on how could that could be streamlined or improved so I think that's what Miranda's planning to do is bring back some thoughts on that in October uh the other item there is identify policy matters for boards and commissions I think one of the themes that we've heard from Council was that other B other uh agenda topics ICS are there items policy matters that could be um pushed I mean for lack of a better word pushed to some of our boards and commissions for input uh recommendations and just better utilizing some of our boards and Commissioners trying to lighten some of the policy matters that you maybe deal with on the front end um having that go through a board or commission so we'll tease out an agenda item uh for you that to come prepared for that October 14th meeting so if you've got things that you think might fall um appropriately with a Park board or whether it's sustainability commission maybe it's the edac whatever it might be um that's what we'll talk about in October for that agenda item uh recently we just added the worker Protection Law so that I think stem out of some recent conversations that we've had and then as I noted here a few minutes ago their strategic Plan update so we'll have our sustainability and natural environment again will and Leslie will be here for that one of course with Sissa as well and then we did build in in this last quarter and against kind of back toback months but building in a 30 minutes open time um so a lot to cover in October perhaps that 30 minutes open time can be shifted to November so we'll try to still manage that October study session so we can be wrapped up by 8:30 so we get to that 30 minute open time then November's uh usually dedicated to budgets so staff will be bringing forward the Enterprise fund budgets uh Julie wishnack committed that this year we'll be talking about our rental registry update I know that was our first phase this last year so staff will be providing an update on the rental registry in November and then in December a lot to cover uh as again noted earlier strategic profile action steps will be coming forward so kind of the big package with our strategic profile uh we'll start preparing for then the 2025 study session work plan and so I'll start when we have our upcoming one-on-one meetings Council we'll start getting that as I call one of the lists I maintain a list for what 2025 will look like uh so you can start framing up those priorities we'll also in December want to talk about legislative priorities so be coming off an election this year so we'll take a look at who perhaps some of our new legislators will be and then start framing up our city legislative priorities and we usually have that meeting with our legislators every January and then last we will also have then 2025 Council and staff appointments so as you're coming off the heels of your policy adoption committees either with at council with the league of Minnesota cities and other other appointments that you serve on we'll start having that conversation on where everyone will start serving in 2025 so a lot of housekeeping in December so that's what we're teeing up for the next three months uh Council again these are year study sessions so if there's a reshuffling of priorities or reshuffling of any of this um we're here to to um Implement those for you great thanks Mike um so coun any I me we're almost to the 30 minutes of open time but um any any questions or comments quick for Mike on on the uh uh study session work plan all right I'm not seeing any um the only thing I would I would say is let's be mindful um of our December 9th study session work plan and really put some good thought into things that we'd like to see coming forward in our study sessions for next year um you know this is really kind of the first year we've done things in such a orchestrated and organized fashion for lack of better terminology and and I think that you know I I think that um you know let's let's really be intentional to um help Mike put together and help the team put together um U valuable time in our in our study sessions let's not fill it up for the sake of filling it up but let's um have some good substantive things there and think about that up front so that's all I've got okay thank you so Mike I don't know I'll let you uh kick off the 30 minutes of open time um with any comments and then and then it's open time so Council go at it yeah nothing much to say I think again the staff report was pretty short but again this was built in for your time um as issues have perhaps popped up throughout the year um this is again I say it's your time to bring up whatever matters of public policy that you want to discuss questions for staff or things that um you want to talk about maybe it's a two-minute time you can certainly we don't have to do 30 minutes but but it's but but it is Kimberly excuse me all right I won't take 30 minutes I promise well you can if you want it's available so um this has been brought up to me and I'm sure other council members have been contacted about um problems with ebikes um on our trails and absolutely in in particular youth on ebikes that um one underage so you're legally supposed to be 15 or older to to be on an ebike so underage youth on the trails and not writing properly and um and I as I discussed with Mike I have seen not in motanka but I'm sure it's here too uh and I youth to young adults on the tiny little motorcycles for better that's what they are there's no pedals it's not a it's not a bike I mean it's not an ebike it's an electric motorcycle it's an electric motorcycle which aren't legal on the trails but again and you know like I was riding my ebike and going at had a pretty good clip and like whiz by they whiz buy me on these little tiny bikes um so I think you know it's I and I know City the the city has been having conversations with the schools and and other things but I don't know if if we may get to the point where there needs to be some ordinance around ebi and I and again I don't know you know it's uh what's the I'm looking for enforcement enforcement yeah enforcement is going to be a challenge so I'm not sure sure what all we can do but it it's something that you know we're starting to hear about yeah absolutely Rebecca yeah I I agree it's come up several times um and it came up you know this is a such a tricky issue but the thing that I'm seeing are these teenagers who are not old enough to drive but you know old enough to probably get really hurt or hurt somebody um you know and there's as I understand it it did it so there's a first mile Last Mile like kind of these things also help people get around and so there's a tension there um but it's certainly a safety issue but the biggest thing is I as I understand it I've had a conversation with representative Elkins about it kind of in another context but um these are regul the the restrictions are statutory and so this may be a topic for our legislative discussion um and representative alkins is very he indicated this came up at the 494 core commission meeting but he's very interested in understanding what the issues are and kind of what how they can help and also um you know Three Rivers is also very engaged on that topic and it's something that's coming up as I understand at their meetings as well so I think it it's definitely a concern I sorry um I'm one of the policy committees that I've uh joined the the different um the advancing evolving capabilities of ebikes now where it used to be you know they were 15 miles an hour now they can go up to 30 um and so I think at at the state level at several committees are looking at that and um so yeah I think that would be a good thing to to be involved with and and advocate for at that level as well Y and you know I'm I'm in violent agreement with everything that's been said but but I think it's I think I I think it's um I think we should take it further too because it's clearly a problem on the trails but it's also a problem on the roads and and I so I happened to be talking to commissioner Edelson from hanen County today on a couple of topics and then I said oh by the way as I sit here right now um and this was I was here earlier and then I went home and then I and I talked to her and then I came back and and I said um oh two electric motorcycles being written by you know 12-year-old kids just zipped by my house at 30 mil an hour and you know so it's multifaceted I mean clearly Three Rivers and you know on our LRT trails and so forth really important but you know the other thing that that Kimberly just said you know um everyone in my view is Everyone likes rules and nobody likes enforcement I mean you know nobody likes to have rules enforced on them but but it's a significant burden and so I'm going to draw an analogy that you may or may not agree with but I look at this a little bit like the things that we're saying about dogs at Purgatory Park while we we don't have the all-encompassing solution on that right now maybe we should get some signage up and lay out expectations we can do that quickly we don't have to wait for a long time talk to Three Rivers and get some signage up and let people know our expectations so that then perhap and maybe we need some ordinances too but perhaps if we lay out expectations then then when we start enforcing people won't be surprised so I think there's clear and I also think that we should talk to the league of Minnesota cities and say okay a lot of cities are talking about this what should we do um you know this is not going to be an easy problem to solve but I think if we start taking some action and laying out our expectations as a community then maybe we can be a leader and help regionally as well so I just think it's an important issue yeah I just to add one thing the sad the saddest thing for me is hearing from parents who are now not letting their little kids ride learn to ride their bikes on the trails because they've gotten you know kind of whizzed by or almost hit by you know people on ebikes and and often young people on ebikes and these little scooters and and we all know that in terms of doing our jobs our spouses are very good co uh coaches on that and you know my my wife is big on getting outside and exercise and running and things like that and she said you know not only um are these kids whizzing by on these ebikes but they're not getting any exercise they're outside they're not and but a lot of them and when I was talking to commissioner Edon she yeah and my I've seen kids on these things go by on their phones at the same they're riding them no helmet and you think about safety you know going 30 m hour on the trail and somebody's trying to teach their kid how to ride their bike I mean it is a cons it's a significant public safety issue that I don't have the answer for but I think I think we know that we should be concerned about it yeah and I will add um and I brought this up with Mike as a household where we have two ebike Riders so my husband was riding on a trail and you know following the rules right riding in and had someone cuss him out and tell him that bikes weren't allowed on the trail which so I mean I think we need we always need more education and like what trail etiquette is for pedestrians as well as bike riders and and I've seen you know well we we call them athletes right yeah which the the not ebike Riders but that you know that are like training and going 20 plus miles hour yeah it's not just ebikes not just ebikes it's just that with the with the prevalence of ebikes and then again with kids that can now go 20 30 miles an hour yeah right right so anyway and and I don't you know we're not going to problem solve it here but I I think it's an issue but I also think it's not just a minaka issue it's a it's a broader issue and and think about ways that we can approach it kind of with a regional perspective so that we're not you know we're not the only city that's got some rules we're not the only city that's investing resource and in enforcement we're doing it consistently in a way that respects our neighboring communities so I don't know and I would just add that yeah Kimberly brought this up to me today and mentioned you tonight's a good time to bring it up it's not on our current radar screen you know it's not in our next three months discussion in a study session uh staff I just give you an update on what what staff is doing with it right now uh first in talking with Scott Bor boom minona police have been working with minona schools primarily with Middle School West um mme is it called East they're the ones parking on the trail they're the ones that are so what and because most middle schoolers are under the age of 15 and so the minaka schools was trying to um crack down on it by telling parents and students you can't even bring your bikes on school property and so kids were not doing that instead they were getting up to the school property hopping off on the trail so they take the trail get to the school property and then uh secure their bike to the a chain length fence with you know a bike lock MH and then they'd have this kind of roll of bikes that was causing some concerns on the trail and so the our Police Department's worked with the minaka school district um on messaging with students they've now resolved that they put up some signage and our police have talked to about 13 different families just explaining the rules and I think whoever said it here to me there's a lot of Education that needs to happen um even before we get into ordinance is um we're aware that excelsia I think is in the midst of adopting ebike ordinance I heard um talking to a colleague friend of mine from m city manager mentioned they're thinking about an ordinance and we all acknow I say we a few of us acknowledge and you said it here the trickiness in it is state law already exists that you have to be 15 right and so how do you catch someone that's 12 11 proof of ID what's the penalty so I think that's do you know every 11-year-old has an ID on them there's that challenge of just like and you know how many parents are aware that yeah so like we have to communicate that so there's there I think there's a big educational campaign that probably needs to happen we did put in our newsletter earlier this year some information about ebikes it was in I think a sun sailor here a few months ago as well but just certainly it was just one time right so probably some more education that has to happen working with the school districts both districts on educating kids on what state law is communicating with parents on what some of the basic state law requirements are and then looking at are there other local ordinances that we can do to help supplement what's already in State Statute and then there's a whole enforcement conversation yeah yeah I mean and you know on the legal question I mean you're going to have kids at whatever age riding ebikes and if they're doing it appropriately and they're not going you know if they're doing with speed limit all that thing or you know that's one thing but could we pass an ordinance that says that if you are between ages of 12 and 16 and you're going to ride ebikes you need to have you need to have an ID you need to have a state ID that shows and I don't know if that's within our Bailey work or not but you say okay well that's fine if you're going to do that you have to have ID so that you can prove who you are if you um if you get stopped for breaching the rules or you know again again I'm I'm getting way too executional but are there things that within the baileywick of the the city ordinances that we can do that maybe don't interfere with state law or other laws but enable us to better enforce the laws that are in place kind of a rhetorical question yeah again stat state law says you have to be 15 yeah so so 12y old can't right but how do you demon how do you demonstrate that you're 15 and if you know that's what I'm saying like know yeah you know I mean some 15year olds have their learner permit and they're super excited to have it so they might have it on them but yeah but but they don't I don't know if they have their age and things like that on there but who knows anyway again we're problem solving but I think I'd be curious as to how much latitude we have to maybe put in ordinances in place that will enable us to do a better job of monitoring Behavior I think all like us tonight I think a lot of cities are having the same conversation right now how do we address this because complaints are coming up everywhere just in terms of its usage and and I think the Paul's point that you know these Technologies outpace regulatory absolutely and that's always the case it's always the case yeah so I have a couple things that are not bike related um so I was I was at a really um nice gathering on uh Saturday night and um uh someone that lives not too far from me who participates in triathlons and stuff meant just reminded me that they were unable to swim in Shady Oak Lake because of the eoli and as I understand it that was like a goose feces related issue and so you know he was thinking about like places where they have like sheep dogs that you know like the same kind of dogs that they have at airports that just chase the chase the the geese away like but you know he also just wanted to talk a little bit about you know what can we do about improving the water quality and that just sort of brought up to me a couple of things about water quality here in general and also we had you know we had some really wet years where we had neighbors that were really concerned about you know outlets for for water bodies and and so it became a non-issue because we had a couple of very dry years this year not so much I don't know what the coming forcast is but you know if it's if it's wet again I'm just thinking that this this is a topic that may come back around um in terms of water levels in various neighborhoods and um I don't think I think I think we got to a pretty good place in general about how we were understanding you know what we're going to do but I just I just anticipate that and I do think that we do have to think about water quality um and you know I I couldn't even remember the last time we couldn't swim in Shady Oak Lake so it's always this time of year it's always usually tests well all year round it's just happened to be at the same time this event was so it it was unfortunate but yeah um we didn't want people getting sick so that was that was the end of that very reasonable yes we don't but it it doesn't test poorly all year um it's an August time frame where things get rough out there yeah and I'm I'm not talking just about about eoli but I just you know just the invasives and you know it's just that's a topic you know maybe that's better for the sustainability commission or something but sort of our approach to that and um the other thing is um and Mike explained that like the plastic bag recycling was just a a temporary deal and we had a green core person spearheading that and you know they're not with the city anymore etc etc but I will say that plastic film garbage is soul it is crushing my soul when I go you know drive to work um it's just solid plastic film on the sides of the of our roads all the way to work and it just gets worse and worse and worse and worse as you get closer to St Paul and so I just think that that you know that may be again more appropriate for when we're talking about boards and commissions and something that sustainability commission but I do think that we need to start grappl grappling with that um because even though even though we have recycling um it's not all that convenient and I think packaging has become more and more and more plastic so like I love Costco but over the last few years things that used to just have a strap around them or be a little bit glued together now are wrapped in plastic film and it's almost everything and so it it you know uh just you know since we haven't been able to convince producers not to produce it um I think that as Municipal as a municipality um I would love to Grapple with that in some way I wonder if that's something to also consider for our legislative yes yeah because I I know there have been some bills introduced that would require the the manufactur to be responsible for right some part of the recycling yes and we're doing that on the we're doing that at the national league on enr as well just trying to make producers of toxins and garbage responsible for yeah I think that is one education Point potentially that we can talk about because there are Services you know I subscribe a service that you can recycle a lot of unrecyclable things and yeah textiles and you know things like that so we could at least be educating people that that's an opportunity I know people don't like to spend money but it's not that it's not super expensive that I just have one other thing in that I'm sorry KY um and that is I do feel like I I know that we're going to bring EMS up I'm certain as a as a topic with our legislators and um uh Mike and chief Fox and I met with a legislator two legislators uh last week um and it was very positive so there's positive motion on EMS but um there's a lot of work yet to be done and um I don't know it almost seems like something that it would be good eventually to get the the whole Council up to speed on and just sort of you know what the issues are and why and KY did you have something yeah I just want to say um you know I know we talked about the um program with Hopkins school and the city the intern program but um just a reminder or just think about this um employment programs for youth I know I keep saying this in our city um as we continue to see youth getting in a lot of trouble um the incident that happened downtown this weekend 16-year-old girl that my niece knew um is now deceased um and I think about like kids out doing things like that just a lot of the kids I just think don't really have a lot to do and then they get caught up and making poor decisions because they just don't have a lot to do um especially um maybe lower income neighborhoods but I want to remind us in minona and Hopkins we have those same children in our city um this summer when I was campaigning I was able to hire six kids pay them $15 an hour and if I was able to do that through the money I raised through my campaign um I would encourage us to do more for those children and they were right here in our city all of those kids that I hired were going to Hopkins school really needed that money and they're here and so I just want want us to really be thinking about that um as we continue to talk about Youth and some of the problems that we're seeing across the state um some of those youth um by of fact this summer I know two youth that was killed this summer one of them went to Hopkins school my daughter knew um the one that was shot in her home and I think it sounds like maybe the family somebody in the household new or whatever and then another youth that was just um killed last night not not last night a couple nights ago downtown and so one of those kids did go to Hopkins High School and so I just I just want us to continue to think about our youth that's in Manaka in Hopkins and I know that's not something that the city typically do where they think about the EMP Employment Program but I know Minneapolis does it they got the stepup program um there's all kinds of programs in other cities and I just want us to start really thinking about how can we partner with the schools partner with Workforce and start trying to offer kids um employment especially as it get more and more diverse y um we're having that so yeah kizy thank thank you for that and it brings to mind two things that I wanted to mention um one was I got an email from a woman today who said that she was concerned about people that she's seen by Cub Foods and it's a woman and her children who are panhandling there and we we hear about the panhandling complaints from time to time and and we know that if they're not if they're on public property they have the right to do that but then her take on it her attack was the children with her are School AED and they're not in school and what can we as a city do to that and I and I wrote a note to Mike and I um and Julie I believe um and you know just to call atten to that and then I you know and then I I wrote back to this woman I said you know we need to work with the school district too because the school district really control is in charge of truancy and things like that not not the city but we still care about it we want kids to be in school so I think that's one then I was reading an article today The Economist magazine came to my house today and I I was reading an article and it was about gun violence in the city of Boston and the success that they have have had at dramatically reducing the amount of gun violence in the city of Boston and they've been very intentional and it you know and they've been doing it a long time but gun violence in Boston has dropped from a high level to a relatively low level and it's at the lowest rate of any city in the country oh wow and you know and it's it's very impressive and you know they've been at a long time but the point is that if they can do it in Boston they can do it everywhere now we don't have a big gun violence problem in minetonka but we have a big gun violence problem in the Twin Cities and in Minneapolis and you know and I just think um you know the types of programs that they're doing um in Boston may be instructive to the City of Minneapolis but they also may be instructive in the city of mitaka because we we want to get we never want to get to the point where we have a gun violence problem in our city and there's certainly a lot of guns in our city and everywhere else and so I think we just have to work to challenge ourselves because we want to City to to be safe and continue to be safe and I think some of these things we might want to talk about ways we can get a jump on those so I'll be happy I'll bring it I'll bring it I'll photocopy the um the article and share it and then I'll scan it in and share it with everyone if or I'll send it to Mike and he can share it with everyone but it's it's it's very interesting and it's worthwhile reading so I want to comment on that great other things or or we or we can end we just had I think maybe because there are like with that one family I think we've been in touch because we have resources we have our embedded social worker we have his house I think Julie's Been talk about specific cases um I would say if you get an email from somebody identifying that we've already talked to them okay there's already been Outreach provided there's already been his house has provided services so I do not like to talk about about specific circumstan I get that that family is social media though so it's probably more in your face and you're used to seeing so um just know that that family is not alone okay good thank you for that anyone anything else um thanks well for all your involvement your comments and and a good night and um I think we can call this meeting adjourned and uh you can get home and watch um see how Kurt Cousins does in the second half of his football game that's right