[Music] [Music] right yes thank you chair Byers dorf here D Lorenzo here Hanley here Ingraham here Jacobs here Suki here Wallock here all right next item is approval of the agenda for tonight everyone's had a chance to take a look at do I have motion to approve the agenda I move to approve the agenda do have a second second yes Byers dorf appr D Lorenzo abstain Hanley appr Ingraham approve Jacobs Suki approve Wallock approve and oh approve approve approve approve approve prove prove to got it y good catch Cher I just can't agree we did add that recently so that's a a new item all right so now I'm looking for a motion to approve the minutes from last month I'll move I'll second Byers dorf abstain De Lorenzo abstain Hanley approve Ingraham approve Jacobs abstain sersi approve wallik approve okay next item is Citizens wishing to discuss items not am and have anybody on the phone or we did not have any call ahe heads no okay um looking at the notes it seems like we have no special matters correct okay fantastic and so we'll move to business item 7A sounds good thank you Sher tonight we have three business items the first two are ordinances uh the first one is the ordinance regarding animals in the park the second one would be an ordinance uh Rel regulating use of cannabis and public spaces just for your knowledge both of those ordinances have been introduced at the council in previous meetings they are requesting your feedback on those two uh they know that we're not taking any public comment on either but they would like feedback on the drafted ordinance that were introduced to the council so uh 7A uh we'll have Mr K and do that one thank you thank you chair W board members um tonight I'm going to walk you through ordinances regulating dogs at large in the city and specifically the parks so high level background um the Purgatory master plan was adopted by the city council on June 24th of this year um the master plan identified this particular Park as a very popular Regional destination for folks to have their dogs off leash um what we saw was public feedback was pretty well divided between those that feel that this is an appropriate use of the park space and those that feel it limits their enjoyment of the particular Park So based on feedback that we heard from the city council on parkboard at a variety of meetings during this process the city staff has prepared two draft ordinances that amend existing regulations related to offleash dogs in the City generally and public parks in particular so high level city code section 92585 this relates to dogs at large throughout the city so at large refers to animals being off the property of a person who owns them and that includes Citywide the current language differs from most cities ordinances by allowing for dogs to be off leash so long as the dog is quote unquote at heel or under voice command um we have noted in enforcement issues related to these particular phrases um the new ordinance as written requires dogs to be on leash currently the language is a 20 foot retractable leash and dogs being brought to within 6 feet when when near others um this is similar to other cities who have retractable leash sort of amendments or or particulars in their ordinances and this current draft as written would be effective on January 1st 2025 adopted by the city council um related specifically to animals and Parks this is uh code section 135.0 to0 the current allow the current language allows for dogs in quote unquote unmaintained areas enforcement issues have also been documented related to this ordinance the new ordinance as written requires dogs to be on leash or allowed to run off leash in designated areas again referring to this 20 foot retractable leash particular and that dogs have to be brought within 6 ft when near others these designated areas would be defined by signage and or fencing to be determined and because this would have a potentially slower roll out due to the work group that I'll talk about in a second the proposed effective date of this particular ordinance coming into effect would be April 1st 2025 and this would follow the community work group recommendations so as part of the master planning process we heard from the park board and the city council and we were recommended to um consider putting together a resident Community work group so the mission of this group would be to develop recommendations related to a city-wide dog strategy including location options for these designated areas this would be comprised of nine to 15 interested residents City staff Council and parkboard members this would be a cross-section of appointed individuals to this group um there would be options for city council or parkboard member to serve it as as a chairperson on this particular group um representatives from City staff would include Parks um and Public Safety folks all in the room together we would also look for assistance from Consultants that are experts in inclusive and effective Community engagement folks that do this sort of work arranged for these meetings and help keep the process moving forward and this group would provide input on the designated areas within the parks related to these offleash dog areas so potentially signified with signage or fencing did you have a questionin Parks does that that City proper off the table good question um currently this ordinance is just related to parks at this point but we are the the community work group is tackled it would be tasked with tackling the issue Citywide so I would say everything's on the table but the ordinance is related to current properties known as parks in the city I know that this isn't wouldn't be an appropriate use because there's no parking but the city owns that's not a it's not outla well that that would be under the under the city ordinance that would be not allowed because it's any isn't that right the city ordance take our magic wand out and make it a park because it's a dog park I don't know I just ask asking what what what we volunteered to be on that committee I want to know what our options are how far out of the box can we think what I understand that we heard is that City Parcels in general would fall under this Citywide dog strategy considerations um yes sorry question um go back a couple slides I I listened it on the city council too in the same size and I think the one thing I I have an issue with rra leashes which I'll get to I do too but the presentation here and the commentary by the city council made it sound like everyone needs to have a 20 foot retractable leash because it talks about a 20ft retractable leash when in fact the ordinance is restrained by a leash up to 6 feet or a a retractable leash up to 20t and I just want to if we do use this again I think it wouldn't hurt to make that clear because I all the all the coun members were talking about 20 foot retractable leash good note So currently both ordinances are up on minetonka matters to collect resident feedback we've been seeing a lot of comments there um I just um the resident community group I went through this one and then a summary of the feedback that we're receiving on motanka matters would be provided to the November 18th city council meeting um when these ordinances would be discussed again so the recommended action tonight would be for you folks to provide feedback to staff related to the park ordinance and the community work group and we would then bring that information to the city council at the November 18th meeting so questions or feedback thank you very muchal tra if the rule is that you can you're either in a design ated dog off leash area or you're not then I don't think we need to have the recreational trail section and I I'm a little sensitive to the in informal Trails concept because that used to be where dogs were and so I'd be happier if that section went away I liked that section because I thought it made very clear what we were talking what the definition of this is and car what the definition of the other thing is I liked it I I would agree with that I understand your an's point but I I do think this helps clarify the status of different Trails inside the parks especially because that's been that's been an issue is what is a what is a trail what is not a what is maintained what is not maintained this makes it very clear looking forward to Cullen um preserve I as I understand it those paths are going to be City mapped or routed and they're going to be dirt so they're they're both a primary and dirt which makes them informal and that seems muddy so the the ordinance edits as written um they Define recreational trail to include both primary and informal trails in the earlier section section three um so it would cover both types of trails the primary trails that we actively maintain with snow removal and the informal trails that would be um City sanctioned but essentially Earth paths and I I'm hopeful that somewhere down the line I'll have the opportunity to make a motion to say I don't want so we need to control the informal trails that are made by the general public um and I so I I just I'm I don't like sanctioning them I'll be quiet now sorry saying that it's just controlling that dogs have to be on there just so the note is that um by having these definitions between primary and informal Trails these were both set out in the Purgatory master plan and essentially allow us to determine where Trails could be and their hierarchy for the most part but both those Trails would be considered maintained in this particular context it just it it also helps clarify where the dogs can be right now like the informal trails are for the most part in unmaintained informal areas so the ordinance as it is the dogs have to be on a leash everywhere in a park unless it's in a designated area so so this just clarifies that regardless if it's a dirt path or they've walked in an un informal area over the pth over the years they still have to have their dog on leash on the informal Trail as well as the formal gravel and asphalt Trails perhap I I I hear you I agree with you I agree that's what it says I think it could be written just like you said it to be more clear since since the public is used to the informal Trails being okay for dogs but but we're saying but we're saying in the future that wouldn't be the case exactly unless a I just want to make sure that that's super clear to anybody who's reading the ordinance we haven't developed the the new language for the park rules signs but more than likely the park rules can be more specific to say something like dogs must be on leash except in designated areas yep at every Park Y and that's that's a concise verbage on the park rule sign that encompasses the ordinance okay um sis comment is this comment I don't think it's going to matter but uh my I I personally am not in favor of the retractable leash and uh one because I think as some people have commented both at at the city council meeting as well as in the menona matters I think it's kind of hazardous on a lot of trails I also think you run into an issue with like the Lake minetonka Trail where Three Rivers does not allow retractable leashes but it it'll sound like because it's in man it's okay so my just my two sens would be it'd be even better if it was you know oh was just a fixed leash I understand that this Springs is in in line with other cities but it's just it's it's not a great thing and I I agree with Dave I'm as a bicyclist and um I appreciate when people have their dogs on a short leash and then when I'm biking by they hold their dog by the collar and off to the side presumably because they're attempted to run after bicyclists um but there have been some very painful nasty accidents with people hitting dogs and a 20 foot leash is pretty long Matt when you said that the 20 foot leash is in line with other cities do you have a number of like many that in I know for a fact Golden Valley has a 20 foot one uh Bloomington and St Louis Park all have 20 foot Plymouth is a six foot only Eden Prairie I think is six' to isn't it I think it is I have to double check I would I would say kind of going along the retractable leash one of the hard things is you know these leashes are leashes right they're sold in stores and people have them and um I mean I know there's pros and cons to retractable leashes but telling people they can't I mean cuz we're already kind of limiting their ability to have the off leash dogs saying that like know that leash is in appropriate like you cannot have that leash I think would be maybe a step too far especially since a lot of other cities around here have that 20 foot rule so I agree with Chris they're really popular I see them everywhere I do think it'd be too restrictive even though I own myself personally refuse to use one because I agree they safety isue but I think that should be the dog owner's and if I'm sorry finish are you done if people actually followed the rules and retract their they retract the leash before the dog reaches somebody else then we're okay it's just if you turn away for a minute and there's the dog is running this way and the bicyclist or the jogger is coming this way that space between the dog and the human can get small pretty fast but I understand about taking away too much and having a riot and more fundamentally I should just said first I think the the changes in the ordinance are positive I think it's a it's a good move to make oh I did have one other question um and I not close enough but you probably seen it someone wrote in manka matters um the language where if you like were had your your in your neighborhood if you had neighbors get together in someone's backyard with mult multiple neighbors dogs that the way it's written I I haven't looked at it closely enough but they interpret it to say in that person's yard you if you're the neighbor you're would be at violation of the of the of the ordinance not not the homeowner's dog but the neighbor's dog with the neighbor in the yard I don't know if that's true there was some sort of comment about that and one of these things I thought was interesting to look at if that's I don't think that's the intention at all um one of the things I had a question about was kind of looking through it says the dogs at large or ordinance will start January 1st and then the park regulation ordinance will start April 1st so kind of looking at that Gap in dates does that mean there'll be like a four Monon Gap where maybe people like wouldn't be able to let their dogs off leash at like Purgatory Park we wouldn't have recommended designated areas until after the first but that ordinance wouldn't become effective until that point okay so would they still like even if the dog ordinance goes into effect January 1st would people still be able to have their dogs off leash like at Purgatory Park or would they kind of be limited until you established that like per or I mean just using as as as an example like P Purgatory Park as a place where they could do it if that's what you guys decide to do that's my understanding of the way the ordinance is Right said okay I also had a question about that and I can you clarify that I can can dogs run loose until April 1 then yeah in the parks in the park in the park so the at large ordinance is everywhere in the city not in a park so on the streets gotcha on a vacant city-owned property uh private property if any part of the ordin of the at llarge part so the at large part is everything except in the park so the current language of unmaintained that would remain effective until April 1 okay okay that makes sense that's good because that's what I was wondering um did you I I would prefer that it goes into effect even if there's no designated space and the dogs are on leashes um but I understand that that again might not be too popular I don't know if anybody else is going to back me up I mean I I would if since we're changing the rules I would prefer like when one rule starts or stops the other rule starts so like I wouldn't want there to be a like if I would want there to be something in place before we take something away yeah so I I would agree with that otherwise we've lived we've lived with atory Park dogs for 30 40 years whatever it's been we can probably have it be 3 months longer between January 1 and April first so I can try that's just my point of view um and I just had another and this is more of just like a language thing and maybe a clarification thing in it's so hard to look got on my phone um in section three bullet e it says no person may allow domestic animal under his or her responsibility to that part makes sense engage in conduct tending reasonably to disturb is just kind of awkward and I feel like it leaves a lot of um ambigu ambiguity kind of with that like like what does it take to disturb somebody like justes just the presence of a dog like does the sound of a dog the look of a dog so I don't know if if we're going to have something I mean because before we took out harass or interfere with so that's a little more concrete but it's still very like you could be like your dog's disturbing me because it's ugly like I don't I don't know um so I I feel like maybe just clarifying that or kind of changing the language around that this the second part of that the red text so no person may allow a domestic animal under his or her responsibility to harass any Park Visitor or Park employee or interfere with the park visitor's properties okay so the harass part still in there why do you needan both sentences sorry seem very similar the two sentences seem very similar in E it's just I think it tries to clarify a little bit for the it kind of replaces the harass or interfere with a little more language yeah how about um no person may allow a domestic animal under his or her responsibility to disturb any Park Visitor or Park employee period and then so take out the Inc conduct tending reasonably to is that like a legal term City attorney did gra yeah I mean I would agree with Chris that I think the word disturb is very Broad and yes the second sentence does give it a little more clarity of harassing or interfering but putting that word in there first leaves room for interpretation so it might be better to have that word a different word in place and reasonably is also a measure that right can vary greatly so those two words together kind of make it unclear I I do think dis disturbance is pretty personal my tolerance for a dog approaching me is pretty low you know my personal space bubble is pretty big and other people maybe you know their personal space bubble is 6 in so my level of disturbance would be higher I think that like illustrates the point though that's super unclear Some people would be like oh the dogs near me it doesn't bother me at all and for some people it does so I feel like reasonably disturb is super gray where that underlined is no person may allow a domestic animal under her or his responsibility to harass any Park Visitor I just think you need the underlined I think the other stuff just convolutes it more just you can't harass other people with your dogs if somebody says I don't like get your dogs too close to me that's the level move them away I I feel like the other stuff gets a little gray harass may be me just to be Devil's Advocate harass and disturb are both subjective um if if I'm feeling disturbed or harassed shouldn't I have the right to ask the owner to please move your dog away from me I feel like that's I feel like if you ask something and then someone continue to do it that's harassment to me so maybe that's like my you know like if you set a boundary of like I'm uncomfortable and then they disregarded it and kept doing it I don't know if there's a legal definition of harassment but that's like that level for me of like I said stop or I'm uncomfortable and then it continued and then there's like Clarity but I don't know if that's the right word maybe it's not I agree it could be subjective to I tend to agree with Ella though I don't think that first sentence is necessary I do feel like the second sentence makes it very clear and it's a stronger sence I think sence is too open to interpretation simple as us see better um my next comments um maybe a recommendation for when you bring it to city council with um community members in attendance a slide with like the rationale why we're even doing this right we had a lot of feedback in the Purgatory prodct about s in the Purgatory master plan project about safety and issues with safety and dogs there are other reasons why we're making these changes maybe summarize that first so it doesn't so it it's coming with good rationale behind it especially the part around the city at large because I know at least one of the council members based on other events that have happened in the metro area with dogs and attacks that I know one of the council members from our joint meeting sounded concerned about liability by not having some more control there at large in the city not the parks per se and I just had one more thought and I just wasn't even sure if this was like appropriate with them this one of the things that had come up with the comments was for the people along the park um were dogs running into their property so and I don't know if this is covered anywhere else and the ordinances or if it wouldn't be even covered in there but just putting it somewhere like you need it's not allow to have your dog like go into somebody else's property I don't know how that would go but I know that had come up a little bit with people that live along the park so unless they're invited like vampires does anyone have anything else I'm I uh it may be have been perfectly clear but I'm I'm delighted that that staff and city council have said you know there won't be drugs running wild everywhere so thank you chair can I step in just at the council meeting when when Matt presented this um and introducing you know the two comments that the council members had really regarding the retractable leashes and then the dates so we've heard a little bit just want to make sure there's no other comments on those two issues I know they were they made a comment about even you know getting feedback on the retractable leashes for sure so and I've heard from we've heard from a few people just Now's the Time if you have any other comments on leashes Andor the two different dates for the two different ordinances would it be possible to Institute both of them starting whenever the at large starts and immediately Institute the um temporary dog parks within the hockey ranks and once it's winter and the Nets are down in the tennis courts that seems it might hard for City to I sorry I couldn't hear I think that might be hard for the city to accomplish in a month I me we're saying that the the at large ordinance goes into effect on January 1 so that's basically giving the city a month and change to figure out how to implement that so I feel might want to let them give them some time to get this get this going and part of that I think it's driven by an ordinance change requires lead time so I mean I don't even know if they can vote on this at the next meeting and pass it can they or does it still go out another step yeah no I I believe the November 18th meeting they can pass they did introduce it okay yeah well and I also think there'd be another level of issue there if were something like these are dog parks like or yeah if if we say like you can only bring your dog to the Rings like I feel like that's a whole another um issue that sorry needs to be brought up because then it would be establishing dog parks which we haven't done as a city well it be temporary dog parks maybe to say in the inim even temporary though then it's it's introducing something gets kind of convoluted to say this is your three month but then you can move to a different area and then you can't do this and that's true that might be confusing I I think it's a good idea to think about that I think it would be challenging and I'm kind of looking at D just the logistics of that I think might be challenging to do I think it's probably a better idea to make sure that the ordinances are very clear and everybody's figured out exactly what they should say before we start implementing temporary things we should just have everything set one time change everything and then it's just good to go and one other thing I think from a communication perspective it wouldn't hurt to reinforce the dialogue I think we had here that said that uh from January 1st to April 1 nothing changes at Purgatory you know because I think that's not real clear maybe maybe because that's I can tell from some of the minut taka matters comments you're already getting some of that that perspective is there time between now and April 1st to create and fence a dog park I think not we could create designated areas identified via maps and sign but we wouldn't be able to install fencing over the winter if we had a winter like last winter possibly don't count on that one but the we would have the ability to put signage or have ways to designate areas and nothing necessarily right now says that any designated areas are necessarily going to be fenced so it uh like it was in the report we kind of had an Andor provide off Le Shas by or signage or fencing by April 1st so kind of goes just depending on what the weather is or what could be what can be done given the however spring goes and fencing may not be needed depending on where it is MHM and how good the humans are at keeping track of where their dogs are are we talking about the working group at this session too or that different we are okay that's but we not we're not getting to that yet that would happen after the next direction from the city council we would begin forming this group okay so that's not a lot of time between November 18th and relatively short window making re recomendations to the council at their March meeting okay Mar how early in March the council has two meetings the two Mondays so whatever that third Monday is I would know the date so they have a week to week to designated areas in if they're not deciding until end of March well the community work group would start no but I mean they have to they have to agree to it they would yeah so maybe February we'd present a draft get feedback and then final version in March keep it moving okay and how are the working group uh people going to be chosen we're going to work with the consultant on that particular process so that's part of the feedback that we're looking for tonight if you have any consideration of how we'd go through that process we're open to them there there I do have a couple thoughts the friends of menona parks um perhaps would want to nominate or put forward someone or two and then there's that pause for park parks for Parks or whoever um I don't know how structured that group is but there there were definitely people at some of those meetings where we got all the feedback that said they wanted to be involved and I've communicated with them they've had ah pickup events in the park they're quite organized um organized enough to push a couple people towards this I don't think you get to push yeah and then another thought was was folks that have commented during the master plan process that maybe are near the park or had opinions um but you know a broader range of interests beyond the dogs near Purgatory well we're talking Citywide so we do have feedback from ananka matters related to Citywide ordinances okay good I just I I don't want I would like us to be Broad in our idea about where the park the dog park is that it isn't necessarily going to be a chunk of purgatory I think given the work group's like small time frame really to like make a lot happen maybe the Consultants could help really create some like clear objective goals I just think there's going to be a lot of people with different opinions coming in and I think it's got to be like super structured like this is the end goal for this meeting let's make that happen this is the end goal for this meeting because I worry it could get in the weeds really quick and then the date gets pushed everything gets pushed so I would just maybe ask for support through the park staff or a Consulting Group to be super clear with the objectives of each meeting we've had multiple interviews with firms that do this work in advance um we'd have more particulars after the council directs us ask about that what type of what type of groups are you looking at that they are engagement coordinating firms um companies that specifically host groups of various interest to try to reach a compromise on public policy related issues there's um a citizen an Angela Mor morera sent me information about uh from the trust for public land about how to set up a dog park sort of a a template and some information from the city of Anne Arbor their whole plan how they went through to pick uh where it was going to be there's some placement criteria chart you know certain number of points for parking and that kind of stuff and a chart about I don't know how old this is um other cities and sizes of their dog parks and um whether they charge or not um so there's quite a bit of good stuff I can forward to anybody who's interested great yes okay does anyone have anything else Mo on item 7B sounds good thank you chair appreciate that we pull up the presentation item 7B is the uh again we're looking for feedback on another ordinance it's the ordinance regulating use of cannabis in public spaces uh some of you may remember uh legislation in in 2023 passed uh the legalization of recreational use of cannabis that was kind of a I think it was maybe a surprise to some people um and so you know within that uh legalization state the state did retain control over a number of regulatory areas but uh did give local jurisdictions like cities the discretion to regulate use um in uh what they're calling outdoor public spaces so really there's two different um Avenues uh that we can go by we've got the public use and then we've got the retail so you know how do you handle it in the public and then how do you actually handle it are you licensing it are you regulating growing things like that so you as the parkw uh have you know perview over the park system so we'll look at the the public use and City properties um timeline with this one the uh City staff presented this uh back to the council in in 2023 it went out for public engagement uh for probably about I think it was four or five months over uh 23 into early 24 and then I've come back to the city council a couple times um just giving them information about it it's been kind of a Hot Topic it's been on and off um I wouldn't say it's a Hot Topic in the fact that we're hearing a lot of um stories from the public I think it's just you know you hear in the news and and especially when it came out in 2023 we heard a lot about that um the ordinance was introduced in October um uh they are sending it to the Planning Commission for that other piece that I was talking about uh that will go tomorrow and then you're here tonight obviously to review the uh public space piece so this will again go back to the city council November 18th they're just looking for your feedback on the draft ordinance and really we I just pulled the chart out of the um report I think this is the easiest thing to look at and and discuss and give feedback on um so if you see on the on the left side here of the chart it says uses allowed or not allowed so the first one is no use of cannabis products including lower potency edible products allowed um the ordinance applies the same Geographic limitation to use of tobacco related products in other words no use of any kind smoking vaping ingesting so no use at all and then where it's affected on the right side you see within 50 ft of any City maintained outdoor swimming Beach playground out uh other outdoor facility used for sports or Athletics Park shelter warming house refreshment stand or public restroom so that's that first one is kind of no use next one down is no smoking or vaping of cannabis and H derived products uh on the right excuse me on any City Park property including Trails located within the park property and on any part of a property upon which a city operated building is located so again this is just smoke sming or vaping so the the kind of the distinction here is like what do you think about Edibles right that's the the distinction here so know smoking or vaping City own Park property including the trails within that Park property and then on any property where we have a city operated building and then bottom no prohibition uh therefore no smoking vaping or eating are allowed anywhere else which incl what was that you said no smoking vaping or eating but it's they are they are allowed yes I'm sorry therefore for smoking vaping eting are allowed I apologize uh so anywhere else city sidewalks Trails located outside of city parks um that would be allowed so really those are the three not allowed anywhere or no use smoking and vaping and then you know allowed so curious if you guys have any feedback on that the ordinance was in your packet um we just tried to make it plain language and because this is a kind of a complicated topic to be honest you know we have um you know uh policies for alcohol in parks for tobacco in Parks things like this it it's similar but not exactly identical so I think it's there's a few differences and so it is a little bit confusing um so we're trying to make it as plain language as as we possibly can so open for feedback questions that I may or may not be able to answer Sarah might be able to help um Captain Mian might be able to help to do would I and this just may not be part of the city maybe part of like the school district but like schools would they be like would they be in there I assume schools have their own enforcement on their no correct marijana canas products so so just a curiosity um I'm looking at the second one so the property and upon which a city operated building is located so just like here is the entire C where where it is what's the property right around this building the entire area the whole Civic Center campus Civic Center campus yeah so the the the building is not a park you know we have we're in I understand it's not a park but it's a city own building correct so like across the street between here and the marsh yep is that where does that fall that's AIC Center I think that's a park yeah I think that's within the park that's a park okay the J so the it is part of the Park so I would have to look at the boundaries but I believe so and the and the boardwalk between here and jadonna is part of the park over the wetlands okay I just trying to figure out if there's some sort of right I know there's nether area you know there's a lot of one-offs that you're trying to think about and so it's it's so if I'm on the bridge going over the creek over here that's still in the park uh it'd be depending on the def definition of the trail I think we call out uses on Trails yeah you can't use on a trail because that would it would apply to a trail okay I'm just kind of curious there's part of that trail going to judana is on private property and we have Ean so there part of that trail is not in Jana park or the Civic Center Park so we need to have a sign there that with a little little astray I think there's going to be a lot of those little things that I just I was just kind of curious you know it it probably Happ you know right now we you know for alcohol um you have to have a permit to be in in certain parks that shelters things like that that doesn't mean that people aren't having alcohol you know I think we're we're trying to to bring this with a broad brush and and I know there's probably little one-offs that we're probably not going to be able to address thanks um in the unlikely event that there's a dog park in a space that's not a city park but it's city-owned property uh and there's no bill building then by this it seems like there would be no prohibition and I would propose that a dog park be no smoking well it wouldn't a dog if we came up with a new novel designated area like along 494 at that point we' probably call that a city park MH if we can have that option yeah yeah we can we can can use our magic wand and make it a park I think you'd want to have it be designated something if it's going to be designated dog area yeah the city can create a will be creating a new park you know colum preserve isn't technically a park yet okay so but it will be a park uh we have in the CIP up the where we uh got the land donated on Timberline where they had the private tennis court so that will become a park so we okay we have options to add parks to the city's Park system I understand what you're saying it's not in that definition on the top right I mean that's what you're looking for where those are more areas where we were thinking kids would be I mean I think that's kind of the the common denominator for that definition of the top right was you know playgrounds Sports Athletics things like that I don't think if you're trying to handle a dog you shouldn't your hands shouldn't be busy smoking so that's more and you should be focused on the dog not in outer space so for safety reasons I'm done sorry sear um separate question is there anything on this slide that's divergent or different than our tobacco laws that I don't have memorized Darren do you have any comments on the I yes but but I don't want to get it wrong um really B uh well I mean it smoke smoking cannabis basically falls into everything smoking tobacco related right when Once if there could be some differences with Edibles I was going to ask that's different than smoking tobacco because like is tobacco Cheo allowed at um Parks right now you can't have any of that form because I was just going to say to be like consistent you know what I'm saying like if you're saying tobacco is this way then I think it should be treated the exact same way is that fair or do you think it's different I think we'd have to get back to you what yeah that's a is that wrong you know if you're having Che the zings zings whatever the kids and not kids what other people use in their like I don't know what they're called they're like little white tobacco I don't know what they're called sure but you know like is it being consistent across the board I don't really know fully but what you one is but so the the middle one where we say no smoking or vaping so we don't are the park policy on Tobacco doesn't allow tobacco in the Parks at all but the middle one would say you could use use an edible if you on a trail in a park as long as you weren't 50 ft from okay one of those and that enforcement I like are we just hoping our best that you'd find somebody and look at them and say are you okay we would basically have to get a call that some okay it's like that's I was going to say cuz I'm like how are you going to very difficult to differentiate yeah yeah yeah okay and Captain me have we had many issues with this in the city or I don't I'm not aware of any calls that we've had regarding issues in the Parks or or otherwise regarding cannabis Ed right so like I said it's been kind of a Hot Topic yet maybe not practically in our Parks I do think it's smart to have something in writing ahead of time though before this comes so people have really clear expectations yeah I was biking two weeks ago somewhere in Minneapolis and someone went by in a cloud of cannabis smoke I don't think he was actively smoking at the time but he hadn't been that long ago um so but I've not experienced that in minota and I think that's we don't want that like outside of our city building we don't want that's but that was just on a trail so that would be no prohibition and if it was just a yeah not in a Park Trail correct yeah yep that is correct okay didn't think we would be talking about this a couple years ago I know we be talking about smoking cannabis and Parks but does anyone have any other feedback like I said this is a it's been a really tough to try you know taking all the feedback too from the and what's practical you know when we talk to to enforcement you know how are we going to enforce things it's it's it's challenging and so I think we've we have edited this quite a few times and you know took some feedback from from residents and and council members and so again we're looking for your feedback but we think it's you know a pretty good start too to me it seems reasonable I given all the things that we've talked about I think it's really clear yep okay okay um we can move on to item 7 C sounds good thank you chair uh item c 7 C is Park habitat restoration and maintenance plans for Meadow Orchard and lak Rose Parks is that lesie yeah I'll just take it quick um so thank you chair wall and park board members um I'll just start briefly actually and then I'm going to turn it over to Matt to walk through some of these if you recall I just want to remind everybody in 2021 the city council well the park board reviewed and the city council adopted our natural resources master plan and in that plan it laid out a strategy related to uh habitat Restoration in our parks there was a um part of the plan actually prioritize Parks so we we had some criteria developed um so we could actually more um put some more prioritization on where we're putting our efforts into and then part of the other strategy identified in the plan is to develop what we call Park habitat restoration and maintenance plans so these are more kind of granular more specific habitat restoration plans in our Parks um that will guide our restoration efforts over time um part of the outcome of the master plan was also a new CIP page so Capital Improvement program page um that actually sets funding aside for Habitat Restoration in parks and so one of the um sort of what we've done and you've seen some of these starting last year um before we actually spend money doing more intensive or aggressive Restoration in a park we want to make sure we have a plan and so these plans that we're developing now and bringing to the park board for feedback will become the basis for the work going forward whether it's by staff or volunteers or contractors so this is sort of that first stage um leading to more intensive Restoration in these Parks so right now we have plans for Meadow Orchard Park and Lake Rose Park so I'm going to turn it over to Matt he was instrumental along with other natural resource staff and he was gonna kind of kind of do a high level walk through and if certainly if you have any questions feel free to ask can I ask you a question about the CIP first sure um so the planning and restoration funding uh will there also be line items for M the ongoing maintenance it it actually includes maintenance um long term so when we from the C from the perspective of the CIP and those funds that are in there um the funds are intended to fund kind of really intensive effort or sort of initial stage of restoration but we do have built in ongoing maintenance funds that are kind of carrying over from year to year so we can make sure we're um supporting the main needs of the parks which should re lessen over time as we get uh habitat plant communities more established I was just thinking about as some of the bigger Parks get restored right um and then we're we've got so there's that maintenance layer and then more restoration of the smaller parks and it it gets I I just don't want it to be such a big pile of stuff that all that hard work starts to erode so if you look in the natural resources master plan I believe it's appendix B um there's actually a 20year time frame where initial restoration activities are outlined and the costs and then the ongoing maintenance as it's carried forward year after year okay so that is built into the CIP the fiveyear CIP program U and then just to remind the Park Board we do Natural Resources Division we do have an operating budget we have a line item for Habitat restoration for the maintenance activities and so we also have that kind of pot of money that we can use for restoration or for maintenance so so I'll turn over to Matt and he's going to walk through these thank you so much um last year I presented restoration and maintenance plans for pergatory and Hillway Park and um we've been having very successful results with the restoration and for park of course for Park can't forget um and these plans really represent sort of a synthesis of our resources available to us we have staff in the field doing this work we have a very robust amazing group of volunteers and then we also have contracted dollars so we'll work with um the local Specialists that do this work and we roll them out into the parks and start prioritizing these particular restoration efforts so these restoration and M plans present a sort of a high level vision for each one of these Parks um they sort of serve as a higher level planning and management tool for our staff and volunteers help direct those efforts um to meet some of these prioritization goals um what we end up doing is identifying restoration Management areas sort of slice and dice the parks into areas where we think the effort would be appropriate based on is there a desirable plant Community that's worth uh enhancing or growing is there a mature tree camp canopy that we want to predict considerations like that um we consider these living documents um restoration is not um like a typical engineering project where we can you know cost out linear feet of this particular pipe and know exactly what we're getting restoration is a bit of a process there's um seasonality rain drought heat seed Effectiveness there's a lot of sort of uh um mushiness to the these particular efforts so we like to consider these documents as living and they'll they'll evolve as we see restoration and maintenance activi sort of respond in the field um we want to leverage the volunteer community early and often we let folks near the park know as per our normal Outreach process we're going to be working in these Parks we let all the people around the parks know but then we Outreach to the the sort of the Citywide volunteer community let them know there's going to be additional opportunities we're going to be doing cool Restoration in these parks and it's maybe worth going and checking out um and then these documents sort of function as a larger scale communication tool to the folks around the park hopefully get them in see these Restorations see their tax dollars at work and seeing the parks generally enhance what we do with these documents is we identify what we call Target plant communities I won't get into the weeds literally on these um but what we're trying to do is generally describe a sort of an ideal plant Community um these are sort of customized for minetonka uh we live in you know the anthropos scene where humans have affected our landscape so greatly foot traffic invasive weeds um you know climate climate change adaptability um so we're sort of using the latest ecological research when it comes to Restoration strategies and what the professionals are doing in the field and we're considering that when we target plant communities and sort of create a uh a to-do list to get us to that point ideally um so again these sort of understanding the pressures of these Park spaces understanding that they they are for humans our real goal is to get people out into the park spaces as much as possible using this restoration as a potential sort of draw to to have folks come and see this work um and what we end up doing is identifying this target plant community and customizing a variety of management un units throughout that Park so um the three Parks I'll show tonight sort of offer a variety of detailing when it comes to these Target plant communities for instance Meadow Park is a r rather large Park but it is primarily Cattail Marsh and Wetland um and we really are considering Upland Restorations with these efforts knowing that Cattail and Reed canary grass and some of the Wetland specific weeds are very expensive to manage and are sort of a s and task to some degree so we Target on Upland areas so in Meadow this particular work area that you see in blue um is sort of on the northwest side of the park we would be building off uh very effective and amazing volunteer restoration areas just to the east of this uh we like to consider priority areas being very high visibility it doesn't make sense for us to go back into the corner of the park in most cases unless it's a very sort of special remant ecosystem in this particular case there are beautiful large mature Oaks and and uh sort of a mixed canopy in this area that run along the trails it's really quite spectacular um but what we we'd be doing here is leveraging the the sort of proven buckthorne removal techniques that we've identified over the last few years not just us the restoration Community you know throughout the state has been sort of streamlining the process and we have generally a 2-year process to get the Buckthorn out of there and some native species coming in on the ground plane and this would be a very high visibility location a lot of people walk this Trail it would also be very practical for us to get um contractors in there to get the brush off site to do the particulars of that restoration work yes the deck talks about seven acres is the Seven Acres the Blue Area you're talking about the or that whole Space this Blue Area this blue that's good okay thank you so it's it's substantial yeah and there's a lot of topography in there that adds challenges so being a living document we would go in and more granularly assess where we would very you know tackle the Buckthorn to complete loss where would we sort of nibble at the edges doing as much as we possibly can with those CIP dollars um Orchard Park this is a um you know a neighborhood siiz park one of the smaller ones but it does have um quite a high quality Fen floating bog on the the west side of this this park um it's really an important amazing plant Community um again it's highly accessible with a with a primary trail that runs around some very significant large Oaks um we would identify a mixed Savannah here for as a Target plant Community sort of keeping the canopy of these oak trees and then opening the ground plane from invasive species and getting more pollinator and uh Forbes and perennial Gra is on the ground plane um this is sort of a good example of what minetonka has a lot of these neighborhood siiz parks with sort of a a smattering of variety of impacted plant communities so um just the pressures of invasive weeds and erosion and land use over the decades have sort of led us to um you know have this kind of mix of plant communities not just a single one across most Parks um we also consider what ongoing maintenance would look like in these particular efforts so not just um planning for something that would be very you know um cost effective initially but then would allow us to manage in the long term um for instance targeting uh prescribe burning as a management technique proves to be a very uh cost-effective way to manage for weeds in the future and finally Lake Rose Park um very amazing restoration efforts have gone on in this particular park over the last decade or so um we would develop a Target plant community and strategies um to sort of we're in this unique situation where this park is generally clear of Buckthorn so new challenges begin to pop up there are aggressive native plants that are sort of seeing the disturbance of the Buckthorn being gone um so we at Lake Rose would um try to P Pioneer some um new techniques to get rid of some of these aggressive na species for instance black cherry is a native tree very good pollinator habitat but sometimes it can act like Buckthorn to some degree where it can come up very very densely and out compete anything on the ground plane and then sort of become a wound to some degree for other invasive weeds to come in so at Lake Rose we would um try out some management techniques of these aggressive native species and this is a perfect example of a a spot where we could establish a a plant Community that's fire tolerant and look at prescribe burning in the future to manage weeds through here so that's it for those three particular Parks um we're looking for feedback from you folks on the restoration and maintenance plans for Meadow Orchard and Lake Rose Park thank you well thank you for the presentation it's you get just the I'm just my mind's always blown of the sheer amount of detail that goes into these things so I think it all looks awesome I have no like constructive feedback Bes Beyond like it looks great so thank you does anyone have any feedback I I questions yeah one one comment on the uh Lake Rose map you can go back to that yes the uh um first I think it's fantastic what's happened in there I like I like that you laid up for the plan in the upper right hand corner of the mixed deciduous Woodlands plan you're going to be doing work in there too because I know the homeowners AC right next to that have had issues in the past with people working in their backyard thinking it's part of that so if whatever you can do to make sure you DeMark where the park territory is and where their property is it probably be appreciated absolutely and part of the Outreach for this I did speak with the homeowners on that side and it is pretty common Us by local neighborhood folks to walk through there um it is quite Disturbed though there there's utility Corridor through there so it's less of a high quality but certainly because of the amount of foot traffic we would do some restoration through that area but working with those local Property Owners there um in the Also let's see this is the orchard one in late April there was going to be um to early May garlic mustard mother Mor and stick seed spot spraying I wasn't aware that that was is that what the contractors have done in other places I'm mostly familiar with pulling it so in certain locations It's very effective for us to either do the spraying ourselves or hire the contractors to do that spraying safely in areas where these weeds are very very aggressive it's impractical frankly to hand pull a lot of these so we follow the regulations we we understand that there's concerns about herbicide applications so the professionals either from our staff or contracted ones are very thoughtful they post notifications appropriately um we communicate that to the general public to you know keep their dogs off of those areas but we see it as a necessary tool in our toolbox so these are areas where there's not a lot of other good stuff it's mostly bad stuff that's the concern is in a larger scale herbicide application are you killing desirable plants by accident so no we were very thoughtful and we certainly work with the contractors or our staff that these folks need to know what they're applying that herbicide to yes there's going to be some accidental loss part of the process but the you know it's a chemo therapy for cancer to some degree we we need to make a mess sometimes yeah is um from a doing work and maintenance is it an issue that there's so many different plant communities in a fairly small space um not in a park like this because there are very clear designations for instance some of these defining lines are trails and it just so happens that the plant commun the the tree canopy changes for whatever reason there was Earth work on this side of the trail not on that side of the trail so there's Oaks over here but there's no Oaks over here so that the these are done by our amazing professionals go out there Janet V Sloan in the field figuring out what these plant communities ideally would be like in the future okay so based on what's there so your you and the staff have no concerns about the jigsaw puzzle being too this is for us this is if the general public goes out there and they're curious and want to know about these plant communities great but we see this as sort of a practical how do we hand this off to our seasonal staff or a contractor and they generally get a sense of what we're talking about okay so just to uh kind of close this off um you know we realize these are very technical plan and and they really are meant to guide City staff who are working with volunteers and contractors um but we also will be um completing these for other Parks so you'll continue to see these over time um as I said these are meant to lay the ground work for future efforts and so we want to make sure we have them in place before we do a lot of you know intensive Restoration in a park um so you'll see you'll see more of these um and we are um you know the CIP the capital Improvement program sort of lays out a schedule for these parks and so we're generally following that schedule but also recognize these are living documents as Matt said so it's not you know once you see it here it's not written in stone we use adaptive management principles so we may do something on the land and it may respond differently than what we're prescribing here so we're always going back and adjusting as needed so give it I I think they seem great I don't given what I've watched happen over at Purgatory It's seems like you know variations on a theme here and so I it all seems reasonable to me awesome thanks Matt really appreciate it do you need do you need some sort of motion saying thumbs two thumbs up two thumbs up it's just feedback just feedback and the and part of that is because they are living documents you know we don't want to approve something that's that has the connotation it's a static thing it's going to always be changing we just want to make sure the park board is seeing it you're aware of what we're doing uh it's a communication tool and then um you know it's something that will that helps us guide the work that we're doing in the future I I think it's great and I love the part that there's multiple years and the maintenance I I walk around starring Lake sometimes and I I know that they have three times tried to get rid of their Buckthorn and it's it's a Buckthorn Forest again and it I know that's the as you mentioned the restoration Community understands better how to deal with buckthorne now you know each year some somebody figures out some new thing um so I'm very hopeful that once we stamp it out it'll be under control thank you okay awesome thank you thanks a lot guys um we can move on the reports from staff sounds good thank you shair uh first one 8A would be information items Sarah's going to take the first and I believe Leslie's got the second Leslie good evening Park Board um I'm just going to give a little update on the Burwell spectacular took place on Friday October 25th from 5:00 to 7:30 at the Burwell or minaka Mills Park um we had over 1,400 people we've lucked out with some good weather last year it was very cold this year it was cool but not awful um so if you haven't been to that event it's free to the public um there's a lot of children children's activities but a lot of the families come dressed up from head to toe parents included and it's kind of like a Hallmark movie there to be honest it's such a beautiful Park and it's a nice way to highlight it um let me just pull up the photo if you haven't looked at those um so we take some photos it does get dark during this event and that kind of leads me to it in Recreation we often have the ideas but we're very fortunate to have departments within the city that help us put these on and I don't know if I publicly said enough how great like Darren's Park staff is so to light up this entire park it take it's an all day effort to go out and his staff and our building staff and our Park staff help us get this all set up um so there's parks there's lights kind of sprinkled throughout the entire park so that people are safe and have a good experience there we had our Police Department there this year they did a trunk Retreat our fire department participates our police also go out and help with traffic control so just another reminder that it's a full City effort to put these on and I sometimes forget how fortunate we are in Recreation to rely on our other departments to make these great events work because a lot goes on in the background so just wanted to give a little shout out to all the other Apartments but really fun event this is madebe one of my favorite that we do just cuz the parents get into it and everybody has a really good time and it was a a great success again so like how many people did you guys have last year if you remember um I think last year was lower because it was very cold um like third under below 30 and I want to say maybe we said 900 okay um I believe the year before was around 1250 okay and the only way we really know our numbers for this one is Kathy who helps with the Burwell um the tours of the house cuz she manages that program in the summer they have a clicker of the number of people that come through the house and we know not everyone goes through the house here because they when they come Yak year to year they've seen it so she had over 12200 1250 I think come through the house so we know there were at least that many there so nice um very well attended fun to see the young families in the City come out and enjoy it I would say as someone who lives in the neighborhood behind the bwell house I really appreciate St that the um police put out signs that say don't park in our cuz I can imagine it would we learned the first year the hard way yeah that we didn't know how big the crowd would be we get we partner with St David's and use their have permission to use their parking lot but the very first year was a few year four year four or five years ago and we did not put out the signs and it was a hazard just you couldn't get an emergency vehicle because there was just such a big crowd that we didn't anticipate so we learn when we put on events you do learn every year so yes and with that I don't have any other comments the next one is I think I'll turn it over to Leslie yes um so this is just a really brief update on the community Forest management plan if you recall I think it was last spring um we brought some ideas to you um and I'm sure you've been waiting with baited breath to learn more about this plan but unfortunately it has been delayed um we just got a draft a rough draft from our consultant um so I at the last time I think we said it would probably be coming back to the parkboard this fall it looks like it'll be probably early next year so hopefully January or February and we do have a menaka matters website our web page um dedicated to the plan so if you're interested or if anyone's interested in learning more they can certainly go there um we're keeping that updated in terms of the timeline but it has been delayed so I apologize um but it will be coming cool thank you which then leads me chair into 8B which is the upcoming meeting schedule uh next scheduled meeting is Wednesday December 4th uh as Leslie mentioned likely having the community Force Master management plan sorry back here in January or February down below we've got a lot of stuff going on right now in our Park system um on the weekend so Friday Saturday and Sunday we have sa in the Parks at Shady Oak Beach so we've got a sauna uh and then people can they can reserve spots uh hour and a half spot I think we have 500 reservations already through the end of November so it's been very busy an hour and a half slot in which you can go in the sauna and then some decide to go in the Lake I think the lake is Lake temp's in the 50s right now so the water's getting colder so uh I think a couple weeks ago it was actually kind of nice it was refreshing but now it's getting pretty chilly but I think that's part of the the experience is going from the sauna to to the water so um that's been busy uh got a couple Wim farmers markets first or the first one here is um Saturday uh this Saturday uh second one was in December we've got Light Up The Commons that'll be the second year of that out at rido Commons and then we'll have our Yeti hunt which I think we're probably in our fourth or fifth year year of the Yeti hunt that happens kind of over the New Year's between the holidays that this year will be at Victoria Evergreen Park okay that's all I have cool Park Board mem reports um I wasn't here last month when you guys did the park signage stuff but I've been seeing them out in the wild and I just think the park signs look amazing they do so really cool okay um we are at that time do I hear a motion to adjourn yeah I make a motion to adjourn have a second I'll second all all in favor I I thank you thanks guys [Music]