[music] [music] Good evening. Welcome to the October 30th, 2025 planning meeting for the Minnitanka Planning Commission. The commission generally meets twice per month, always on a Thursday. The schedule and the tentative meeting agendas can be obtained by calling the planning division or by checking the city website at minnotonkamn.gov. The commission holds public hearings on land use applications. For all land use applications, the city fi city notifies property owners within at least 400 ft of the site and posts plans and information on the city website. For some applications, the city also places signs on the properties and notices in the Sun Sailor newspaper. From a specific process standpoint, the commission makes recommendations to the city council on reszonings, subdivisions, conditional use permits, and amendments to the city's comprehensive guide plan, zoning ordinance, and subdivision regulations. We also make final decisions on site plans, signage requests, variance requests, and expansion permits unless those requests are part of an application that must be heard by the city council. In that case, the commission makes a recommendation and the council makes the final decision. In addition to these formal actions, the commission also provides informal feedback on development concept plans. Anyone dissatisfied with a final planning commission decision may appeal to the city council by submitting a written request to city staff within 10 days of this meeting. From a broader standpoint, the city's comprehensive guide plan, zoning ordinance, and subdivision regulations are the city's best efforts to codify a balance between individual rights and community responsibilities. Individual rights are easy to understand. Community responsibilities are more subtle, but the idea is that we as members of a community agree to limit our individual rights for the common good of the group. The planning division, the planning commission, and the city council together are charged with managing this sometimes difficult balancing act. We ask that you keep this broader perspective in mind as we review tonight's applications. Again, welcome to the planning commission meeting. Staff, please call roll. >> Henry >> here. >> Minion >> here. >> Waterman >> here. >> Banks >> here. >> Brink >> here. >> Hansen is absent. Chair Maxwell >> here. There are six of us seated tonight. All right. Next item on the agenda is the approval of the agenda. Staff, I believe there's a change memo for tonight. >> Yes, Chair Maxwell. Well, there is a change memo. It is associated with uh the concept plan uh comments that came in as part of our asynchronous uh planning um public hearing, which I'll talk about a little bit later. And then we'll um also mention those during the actual public hearing for that project. >> All right. Thank you, Miss Thomas. Uh, may I have a motion to approve the agenda? Uh, noting the change memo. >> I'll make the motion to approve. >> Motion Banks. >> I'll second the motion. >> Second, Henry. Um, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And motion carries. Uh, next is the approval of the minutes of the September 18th, 2025 uh, commission meeting. Any changes from commissioners? No. Seeing none, may I have a motion to approve the minutes? >> Make motion. >> Motion Brink. >> Second. >> Second. Minion. All those say I. In favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? All right. Motion carries. All right. Moving right along. Next, we have a report from staff. >> Uh, thank you, uh, Chair Maxwell. two council meetings to report on since your last meeting, September 29th and October 20th. Um, the council introduced an ordinance reszoning a property on Margaret Place from I1, which is industrial, to R1, low density residential. It's a really odd situation. There's a a house on a property that's um zoned industrial. Um, that application has actually since been withdrawn. So if you or uh anyone that you know was waiting to see that come before the planning commission that uh that will not be coming here. The zoning is going to simply remain intact um for now. The council also then um adopted the 2026 um commission and council calendar which I've given you all a copy of um post that somewhere if you haven't seen this before. It it's quite a crazy and remarkable document in that it shows all of the different commissions that are meeting on a regular basis throughout our our community. Um you are orange. Uh so the orange boxes are the planning commission and you'll notice that from every planning commission there is an arrow a black arrow which shows which council meeting um those planning commission items uh will be going to. So, uh, if you have any questions, uh, let me know about that. Those are the council meeting items. Next, I want to report on, uh, something that I had sent to you via email earlier this week, and that is this asynchronous, uh, public hearing. We, as city staff, have long been looking for um new ways to um reduce barriers to participation in our public meetings. And so last week we began what is called an asynchronous public hearing. We've been thinking about it a long time. We've been doing a lot of research and we decided to just um just jump in. Um you know uh that to participate in a public hearing on a land use item and this is the forum for that. uh typically to be able to hear the the staff presentation, to provide official public comment, and to ask questions about that staff presentation, people need to be present on the Thursday night at 6:00 p.m., whether in person or on the phone. Um, that's obviously a barrier uh for some people for a whole multitude of reasons. So asynchronous public hearings involve staff posting a video presentation online to the project page. So the day you all received the packet, this video went up on each project page. People can then review the video, they can ask questions about the staff presentation. They can make formal public hearing comments when it's convenient for them. So on a Tuesday afternoon uh in the third quarter of the Vikings game when um whenever they can they can do that staff can then respond to those questions and it's our plan to do those presentations for every project that's on a planning commission agenda. You all can review the projects uh ahead of time also. But as I said in the email, please do not post any public comments on the public comment page. If you have questions for staff, uh, reach out to us directly. We will then provide all of the comments and questions we received as part of that asynchronous public hearing to the planning commission uh, prior to your to your meeting. And we're going to just continue to explore other ways to again continue to reduce barriers um, for people to to participate in planning commission meetings. We think this was a good start. Uh, with that, my only other announcement is that your next meeting is actually November 20th. If you were looking at your old calendar, we had a meeting scheduled for next week, but we still need a little more flushing out on those items that were scheduled. So, um, we will not see you next week. We will see you on November 20th. And with that, I would turn it back to the chair. Thank you, Miss Thomas. All right. Next item is a report from commissioners. Is there anyone on the commission who has anything to report this week? Commissioner Minion, >> just a big thank you to the [clears throat] city and the city workers for working late. Uh the open house was fantastic. If anybody got a chance to do that, they did a wonderful job. And the uh celebration at the Burwell House for a little trick-or- treat type of a thing was unbelievably uh well well done and and everybody had a great time. But uh thank you everybody for working so late, working so hard. It was a huge huge success on on both parts. >> Commissioner Hansen and Commissioner Henry, >> thank you. That's close. This is not a comment, but a question for Miss Thomas, too. By the way, thank you for the presentation, and I'm glad that the city is thinking about how ways to reduce barriers for the public to participate in these meetings. As an ancillary part to that, I know that some of us on the commission can't be here every meeting event and and in in in co times we could join virtually. Has there been any thought of the city that the commissioners could join remotely and still be officially part of the meeting? uh Chair Maxwell and and Commissioner Henry in general um since we've um gone away from those uh COVID style meetings. We have allowed that when we've needed a uh quorum, but um we have not typically allowed that in the past. I think that would be a conversation for the city council to have on whether or not um they would like to see that opportunity. It does add a little bit of complication for us um in that and for uh the planning commissioner. You need to be um at a public location. We have to post your public location so that people know where you are um so that we um can ensure that it is you um talking to us and making votes. uh and and so it's not as simple as it was during CO that everyone just joins. Um but something that we can ask the the city manager and the council to weigh in on >> Thank you. >> Anyone else on the commission have anything to report? >> All right, we'll move on to our next item. Item seven is public hearings consent agenda and there are none of those this week. So, we'll move on to item eight, uh, non-consent agenda items. And before we begin consideration of the non-consent items, I'd like to review the steps in the process and the public hearing procedure that will follow for the proposal tonight. First, the item will be announced and staff will give their report on the subject. Then, the commission will ask questions of the staff. Next, the applicant will be invited forward to make a presentation or offer comments on the application. Commissioners may ask additional questions at this time of the applicant or of staff. After the applicant is finished, the public hearing will be opened to give anyone present the opportunity to comment on the proposal. If you wish to speak, come forward to the podium, state your name and your address for the public record. We ask that you keep your comments brief and try not to repeat points already made. Once everyone has spoken, we may allow speakers to return for additional comments at larger meetings. Neighborhood spokespeople are encouraged and may be given up to 15 minutes to present. The first item on tonight's the only item on tonight's non-consent agenda uh is item 8A uh De Jang Estates a two lot subdivision at 1842 Old Excelsier Boulevard and uh Mr. Mr. Anglesson, I believe this is your right. >> You can see it over here on the left hand side. To get a little bit more, you can see it over here on the left hand side. To get a little bit more specific, it is located across Highway 7 from Mitaka High School. So, it's a big landmark and then it's at the corner of Sparrow Road and Old Excelsier Boulevard. Here's some pictures of the existing site. Uh, it's currently improved with a single family home that was built in 1996. Uh the picture you're looking at here is facing north with old Excelsier Boulevard behind you. There's also behind the home a 125 ft shed and the home is on the west side of the site. So all of the improvements really are over on there on the west side. When you go over to the east side, here's a look from Sparrow Road. You'll see there hasn't been really much um touch over there. It's u mostly just wooded trees um that's been left undeveloped. Here's a look at the entire site. It's 1.5 acres in size. And as you can see, here's that home that's over on the west side accessing off Old Excelsier Boulevard. And one of the bigger um elements of this property is the slopes on the site. So everywhere you see in here on yellow is categorized as steep slopes by the city. So that'd be anywhere that has grades that are over 20%. There are some get a bit even more over that. Um but anywhere you see in yellow is at least 20% which by city code there are additional restrictions in those areas and generally development is either restricted or discouraged. Uh over on the east side of the site you can see that's white is rather flat. Uh so that's where um you were looking over here from uh Sparrow Road. Look at natural features on the site. I'll go back here. Actually I have a couple more things to stay uh looking at some natural features on the site. The highest points on the property are the west property line and the south property line. In general, water drains from those areas to this low point. Uh however, that lowoint area that you see down here is neither a flood plane or wetland. So, previously the city had believed that this area may be a wetland. We uh always look and we have areas that we mark on our maps thinking this has the potential to be a wetland. Uh however, a 2022 wetland delineation study was done and that was actually a bigger study than we usually do. Typically the city's the one who reviews those, but uh this one had a larger group that included the city of Minnitonka Board of Soil and Water Resources and Henipin County Soil and Water Conservation District. So multiple agencies came together to review this specific wetland because it was um a little bit unique in the aspects of what was going on there. And after that review was done, it was determined that it did not meet any of the state standards to be considered a wetland. So went through a pretty hefty re review back in 2022 along with the property to the north. Looking at what's being proposed tonight, um it's the applicant is proposing to subdivide the property into two different lots. You'll see the proposed lot lines here are in red and then areas that you see in purple are buildable areas. So you'll see there's a buildable area for the existing home and then there's also one over here for the proposed home location. Then also a third area over here uh that still is a part of lot one. However, um this would be still just a two lot subdivision. So despite there being two locations, only one single family home could be on this property because it's still just one lot as proposed by the applicant. So, with any application, we always look at all the different subdivision requirements, and there's several different standards, uh, lot area, lot widths, lot depths, buildable areas, and each of these lots meet and exceed all of these different standards. As you can see on your screen, uh, the lot, the larger lot would be about an acre in size, and then the new lot to the north would be about a half an acre. A couple of other um items with this property. First, looking at storm water mitigation. The applicant has proposed storm water on the north side of the proposed home. And then also another sort of unique aspect that we uh realized through this process is that there's a private utility line that interestingly accesses actually from over on Sparrow Road. So you can see this green line is their private utilities for the existing home. Uh you'll see that cuts across the proposed lot. So, a condition of approval for this is adding a private easement for this owner. So, in the future when access is needed, uh that property owner would be able to access that on the other property owner's property and still be able to fix when maintenance issues come up. Looking at grading of the site here again, we're looking at Sparrow Road and the majority of the grading really it's um looking at the site is going to be restricted to that new lot in the northeast corner. here is looking at Sparrow Road and you can see that it sort of drops down as you come in. So to make a flat driveway, the applicant's adding proposing to add fill in this area to raise that area up for the driveway and then also uh the area for the existing home so water would drain away from that location. Looking on the left side of your screen, the area in green, you'll see about 4 to 7 ft of fill. Um the proposed home is in blue. Areas that are orange would be less than 4 ft of fill. And the area in red shows areas that would be excavated less than four feet and that's the storm water area. [snorts] All right. And then looking at tree removal, uh there are 82 high priority trees on the site per code. Um you're allowed to remove 35% of those high priority trees or 28 of them. In this instance, the applica the applicant is proposing to remove 26 of those trees. So that'd be at 31.7% which would be below that uh 35% threshold for significant trees. The applicant is proposing or there's 58 signific existing significant trees on the site of which 50% could be removed or 29 trees and the applicant's proposing to remove 10 of them. So significantly under that one at 17.2%. So after review, staff is recommending that the planning commission recommend the council approved the resolution approving the proposed subdivision for three reasons. First, the application meets the minimum lot size and dimensional standard requirements. Two, the proposal meets the steep slope ordinance. And three, meet the proposal meets the tree protection ordinance requirements. A motion to approve the preliminary plat will require four affirmative votes from the planning commission. Looking at next steps, tonight's uh decision by the planning commission will be a recommendation. So, this will go to city council. It's scheduled to be on the November 10th city council meeting. With that, I conclude my presentation and turn it back to the chair and commission for questions. >> Thank you, Mr. Englesen. What questions does the commission have? Who wants to go first? >> Commissioner Henry. >> Thank you. Uh, first question is, uh, Drew, can you just review for us and for the the citizens listening at home and in the audience too, what can and can't be done in the steep slopes. And in the writeup, it talked about delineation between a 20° slope and a 30° slope. Are there differences what can be done between those two delineations? If you could elaborate on that, please. >> Sure. uh chair and commissioner Henry. Uh so in the city we have like you talked about we have different layers for steep slopes. Uh the first layer is um anything under 20%. There can be grading, there can be earth work. There's really no outlines that restricts that area. So that would be the area shown here in white or looking at this one the area shown in purple if you're including setbacks. Also when you get into areas that are 20% grade I call that always the sort of a yellow or caution area. uh the city generally does not we discourage development in those areas. We look to push to say is there other areas you can develop. In rare instances where there's no other opportunities for development and there is a uh basically a right to develop in that area, that's when some of that gets worked in there and there's limits. The staff gets to review and say, is there another way that you can do this? Is there ways to limit it? Can you use retaining walls to not really spread out that work within the steep slope? And then over 30% has an even higher threshold where it's really restricted. There's only very very rare occasions that we allow any work to be done within 30% grades. Um so I call that sort of our go area under 20%. 20 to 30% is a sort of if needed and 30%'s on a very rare instance. Okay. Thanks. That was quite illuminating. Uh, another question I have is in the writeup it talked about that the grading necessary for the building is is minimal grading, but then on the other hand it talked about filling in six to seven feet of field. So those seem a little bit like they don't jive, but from what you described, it sounds like it's just that small dip from the road into the building surface and not a six to seven foot fill on the the house pad itself. Is that correct? >> Uh, yeah. um, Chair and Commissioner Henry. So, as you look on this map, the the largest amount of fill in, as you can see on here, is going to be right when you're in that driveway into the site. Um, you would, it's a good practice to be you don't want to have it draining towards a home. So, that's where you do want to raise that up. So, you'll see the largest fill area there is in that grain area. The rest of the area though is much smaller. I think I put I put down 4T here for orange, but the majority of that is a few feet. Um, so it's a smaller part of the site. We see sometimes with developments, grading areas get a lot larger than that. Um, but for this one, that's just the background on it. [clears throat] >> Thank you. Can you also confirm that the city currently doesn't have a maximum amount of fill that an applicant can put in? >> Chair and Commissioner Henry, yes, the city does not have a limit for filling when you are doing it within areas that are not steep slopes. So again, going back to this area, in this yellow area, there would be restrictions within this area. We look for things that kind of can be accommodating a new home. Uh there are restrictions on making sure drainage patterns are correct. So it's not a free-for-all. It's not a you can do whatever you want there. It does this is reviewed by our engineering staff to make sure that drainage patterns are going to be maintained and they'll be appropriate. Uh but no, we don't have a number saying you cannot add fill for X amount. There's no numbers like that. Thank you. And in the in the picture, if you go to where it shows the drainage uh the storm water drainage proposal, that's in blue. But just wanted to confirm for everybody out here too, that doesn't mean there's going to be standing water in there. That just means that that's where all the storm water will drain. That would be the lowest point on the property. Is that correct, >> Chair? Commissioner Henry, that's correct. >> Okay. across Sparrow Road there's a there's a pond and did city staff consider if necessary to tie in the the drainage from this property underneath Sparrow Road and then to drain into that drainage pond or is that a topic of later discussion or not at all? >> Chair and Commissioner Henry, that is not something that was brought up by our engineering staff. If there are opportunities to fix or correct drainage, that's this is the time they recommend it, but we didn't have anything recommended by our engineering. >> Okay. And last question I have for now is the the study of looking at the the wetland review that was done in 2022. And maybe some folks in the audience remember that was in the height of a really horrible drought and to assuage some of the concerns of some of the the people that are with us tonight. Can you explain how that was done and why being in the middle of a drought would not affect the the lack of wetland designation? Maybe some people think now we've had a rainy year, maybe now it is a wetland. Can you talk about that please >> chair and commissioner Henry? Absolutely. So um when I did talk to our natural resources staff who has extensive background in wetlands that's sort of his area of expertise. Uh when I talked to him about that uh what they do is when they doing this research for a wetland delineation they look at the past 3 months from when they've taken it. So they're taking in account those other months previously to see how much precipitation has occurred in those last 3 months with it being a bit more weighted to the more recent months. Uh when they do that, they actually do that before they even go out to the site. So they know what prec what precipitation has looked like out there. Uh and when they do that, they put that into their report and into their review and it's a part of that calculation to determine what they should be looking for. And it guides them a bit on how deep their soil borings have to be for when they were determining that. So long story short, uh yes, they look at the past 3 months for precipitation and they do that adds into their review. So it's a definitely a part of it and taken into consideration. So drought was not a concern they have when they're doing that research. Thank you. Anybody else? All right. All right. At this time, I will invite the applicant forward to make any presentation or give any comments on this application. >> Good evening. Uh my name is Michael Brandt. I live at 6837 Cresten Road Dina and I'm the applicant um and land surveyor on the project. I'm just uh I was going to point out one thing. There is that pond is connected under the road. There's a pipe that will take water over there. And so the purpose of the uh rain garden type um grading element on the north side would help the bring the water there in the lowest part and then hopefully just seep back into the aquifer. But after that, if there was a heavy rain, it would overflow into that pipe and join in with that pond underneath Sparrow Road. And um I I'm just here further to answer any other questions you may have. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Brandt. Who has questions for the applicant? >> Minion. >> I understand why they considered that a wetland originally because it certainly looks like it when you drive by. um you're planning actually to have that wetland in there when we saw the other part about the orange. My concern would be is are you going to build the house or is just going to be a sold lot and if you are going to build the house, what do you envision there just to keep I think water and runoff is kind of on everybody's mind to some degree. >> Will you kind of speak to that about what your plans are and how to deal with that? >> Absolutely. The property at this point is will eventually be sold to a builder. I I will not be that builder. Uh I I don't think so at least. But um the the goal of the planning is to direct the rainwater around the prospective structure that would be there and then get it into a like a rain guard situation and under the road and then uh from there we try to design with a the minimum standard of one and a half 2% of flow for the swailes. um doesn't show on this uh particular Oh, yeah. There are some. It's harder for me to see in this this uh level, but the there are drainage arrows showing the water to go around. And then there's a couple lines in the green area. might be not that clear from this view, but the the lines in the middle of that green area, which would be a prospective future driveway, uh can take a what we call a corrugated metal pipe and direct the water underneath the driveway to get it to the north side where it would go under the street further. Um this this particular uh stage of the planning is just mostly a general idea on what as and giving an providing an example of what could it it will work here to build a house. uh what a future builder's plans may be but will be somewhat could be different from what we're showing as a general concept of uh what can that we can get something to work here as a develop a dwelling. Yeah. >> Anyone else? Commissioner Banks. >> Yeah. Thanks, Chair. Uh, one quick [clears throat] question about the um the existing home that's on the property. Um, are the plans will be to leave that home um as it is or would it be renovated or enhanced or would it be torn down and in the a new home built on that? >> There are no plans to tear down the house. The house is uh very high level um good finish and in good solid condition. Um to my knowledge at this point it's a beautiful home there's no reason to tear it down. Very good question though. I with all that's happening around town these days. Thank you. >> Thank you >> Commissioner Brink. Um, yeah. When I drove by the site, it looked like the property to the to the north, there's already some construction going on. Um, is the grading plan developed in a sense that it's that's matching dry driving with their grading plan that so that the water is going to get out the way it's supposed to? >> Yes, grading wise, it uh definitely the goal was to be consistent and somewhat conforming to what the plan would be ac uh to the north there. Uh there is well as you can see slightly on the drawing there is a rain garden planned kind of on the southeast of that property but northeasterly from ours and then their emergency overflow would flow into that that culvert that goes under Sparrow Road there as well. >> Thank you >> Commissioner Henry. >> Thanks Chair. When I looked at the proposal, looking at the lot size, it's about an acre and a half, a little bit more than that. So, theoretically, it could have been split into three separate conforming lots. Can you speak to why that decision wasn't made? I know we're here to to discuss the project at hand, but this may come into play for future. >> Absolutely. Uh the homeowner is going to continue living in the existing house on the west side and they're just not ready for for an extra lot there on the southeasterly side. Although it's definitely an accommodative uh portion of land that would work well for another uh size lot there that would it would work. So, they're just not ready for that. Now, >> have you had a conversation with the city about the feasibility of putting a different lot in there? I'm thinking specifically about the the grade going up from Sparrow Road to Old Excelsier Boulevard. That's a a pretty steep grade. It doesn't show so clearly, Miss Thomas, if you could put it back into the the slide deck with the or whoever is controlling the slide deck with the one that was just up. >> Yep. >> Uh let's see. Keep going. There's a picture of this one here. So, as you're going up, it doesn't show in the picture, but it is a pretty steep slope. So, I wonder from a public safety perspective and ingress and egress if that's even possible to have a driveway that high up on Sparrow Road. >> It's a definitely a consideration uh that that that road has a slope to it. Um I think it conforms with the city's uh slope guidelines. Uh, and so there it is somewhat limited there. As you can see on the drawing, there's a what looks like a on the westerly side of that sidewalk uh guard rail that goes along there. Uh, and that that uh that's where the the most steep part is coming into the intersection there and with old old Excelsria Boulevard. However, there is some room for a driveway there. Um, and it it's it's a feasible uh area where another lot could go. And I've seen a lot of examples of a transition driveway off of a slope like that that work. Is that part of the strategy of the asymmetric lot split? If you look at the the picture on the left hand side, it's not a rectangle. It's more of a different shaped piece. Is is that in preparation for a further lot split? Is that why it was that way? >> It it really is because um I know the site is an acre and a half. However, the when you break down to the square footage of the ordinance and the zoning for this uh this uh residential zoning, the minimum lot size is I think if I remember correctly, uh we need 22,000 required. And uh and so when you get three three lots there, you're pushing at 66,000 and uh one acre is, you know, 43,560. So we're getting very close, but there is enough square footage there. >> As the graph up there shows it, there's 145 square ft extra from the minimum amounts. >> Okay. Yeah, very close. [clears throat] >> Okay, let's see that one. Oh, and then if you can go back to that other slide with the picture of of what we had before, uh, see the other one. There it is. Do you know those utility pedestals? Are those are those right on the lot line between the two proposed lot splits? And would those have to be relocated if even this house was built and or if a third house was built? >> I don't believe they need to be relocated. They are shown uh as you can see in the picture there's a grouping of them there and they're also on the drawing northerly of where that green space is. Uh so they're they will be undisturbed and uh pretty standard for if if they had some you know wires that were going for the cable TV or something that were coming across there. I don't see it. Uh, and I I don't believe there are any other than maybe going northerly in within the drainage hilly easement. And then so they're they're perfectly placed to accommodate two new dwellings where they are. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Any other comments, questions from commissioner? Questions from commissioners for the applicant? All right. Thank you, Mr. Brent. We may have you back after the public hearing from >> Sure. I'll be here. Thank you. >> All right. At this stage, I will open the public hearing. If you would like to speak, come to the podium. Please state your name and your address for the record. Address all of your questions to me and then I will make sure at the end of the public hearing that all of those questions get answered. Good evening. My name is Bill Hire and I live at 18431 High Path Lane. [clears throat] Sparrow Road uh has a lot of activity going on on it right now. I can think of uh maybe four or five new homes being built under construction right now. um frankly people opportunists taking advantage I feel of the great place that we live and um and really kind of taking away from the the overall aesthetic of the wooded area. Um the it has been recommended that uh to proceed with this with this approval. But if you look at the lot, it's a it's a terrible lot. uh it's all either high slope or at some point in time somebody determined that it was a wetland and there's utility boxes out in front of it and uh it just doesn't appear to be a very desirable place and so I would just like the commission to take that into consideration. All right. I don't see anybody else. This is your last chance for the public hearing on this one. >> Hi, Chair Maxwell and members of the commission. My name is Bruce D. Young and I'm the property owner and I'd like to address a couple of the things that came up here. So, uh, Commissioner Henry talked about, uh, storm drainage and, um, Commissioner Minion talked about, uh, the wetland aspect of it. What you may not know is that the only reason it really looked like a wetland was in previous years before the city reconstructed old Excelsure Boulevard and Sparrow Road, all of the drainage came through an open culvert right at the corner of uh Old Excelsure and Sparrow Road and was dumped onto our property. that pre-existed us purchasing the property, but uh [snorts] it was definitely caused by the city's storm drainage management. And once the roads were reconstructed with proper uh storm water drainage, there has been no water on the property. >> [clears throat] >> Um, right now you've talked about uh why one lot, why not uh making two separate lots down there. We still intend to live in our home. We've been very happy. We uh we've owned the property for I don't know 33 or 34 years. We constructed the house in 1996 and so we've been there 29 years and uh when we built it, we built it on an accessible basis. So there is a way to roll in from the garage, roll in from the front door and uh everything is handicapped accessible inside. And so we intend to age in place at this place. The reason that uh we didn't want to put a second lot on the south uh east corner is because you can see that our home is tilted a little bit. We don't believe we'll have much visual impact from the lot that we're building, but uh our picture window will still look out onto the woods and we'd like to keep it that way. So, um I would say that um I feel like I'm definitely not an opportunist having owned the property for 30ome years and um there are a lot of buildings and roads in this area that would not be allowed to be constructed because of the steep slope ordinance such as high path. which is a very steep property under the existing rules. So, I think that uh we're doing well. We're meeting all of the guidelines that have been set forth by the city. And with that, I would recommend uh your approval of the project. >> Is there anyone else who would like to give comments on this? All right, seeing none, I will close the public hearing and I will bring it back to the commission. We now may ask questions of the applicant or staff or give comments. Commissioner Waterman. >> Uh thanks, Chair. Um thanks to everyone for the uh thanks to Drew for the presentation and the participation. Um, overall I am in favor of this one. Um, subdivisions can be hard. This one is over 1 and a half acres, which is three times most uh, Minnetonka lot sizes. There are no variances needed. No major topography changes that the city thus far has identified that would tr like negatively impact uh, neighbors. Obviously, when the official site plan would come forward, that's when the rubber would hit the road. Um, yes, acknowledging that there's an impact on uh the neighborhood with the loss of trees and it sounds like there are variety of [snorts] uh other projects in the area. Uh, I will say that we have a very stringent tree protection ordinance in in the city of Minnitonka. Uh, and I think each product is evaluated on its own just to make sure we're not losing too much of our tree canopy and too much uh of the the woodland that makes the city unique. Um, nonetheless, we need to balance that out with individual homeowner property rights. And I in this situation, I think we're actually obligated, if I'm not mistaken, to uh recommend approval of this subdivision. Um, so that's my thoughts. Thank you. Who's next? Commissioner Brink. >> Yes. Thank you, Chair. Um, yes, I concur with Dr. or Dr. Commissioner Waterman's comments here. Um, don't get that called too often, I'm [laughter] um, but I'm in agreement. This is this is a challenging uh, piece of property. I mean with the the low area and the steep slopes and uh but the applicant you know has addressed those quite well I think with talking about the fill and the drainage and uh it meets all the requirements the tree protection ordinance the subdivision regulations. Um so I I'm in favor of approval here of staff's recommendation. >> Commissioner Minion >> I'm in favor as well. Um, I'd also like to say though, uh, thanks to the staff for putting this together. I [clears throat] really, uh, think the trees are important and the effort that, uh, you put into your surveys, how easy it was to identify that you had done a good survey. Uh, I really appreciate that. Uh, just how all the trees were marked. Um, I was a little concerned about drainage, but uh, once we looked at it with the uh, with the advice, it's uh, it's a good plan. It's a concern at first, but uh the way it lays out makes a good sense and uh it meets our tree ordinance. It meets the good lot sizes. Um I think it's a well thoughtout plan. >> Commissioner Henry, [clears throat] thanks Chair. In our packet, we got some feedback from ostensibly the neighbors where three people voiced some concerns about the proposal. I live in the area and I can understand their concerns from a timing perspective, from an optics perspective, it's well, since I live close to it, the the lot right next to the right next to this on the north side, they tore a lot of the trees down right by Sparrow Road and they put up a new house. And to have that happening at the same time as this planning commission meeting, I could see I could feel some of the angst of some of the neighbors to say, "Well, what enough is enough? There's there's a lot of development on Sparrow Road, so why should we allow this one?" And as commissioners, like several of the commissioners said, we're obligated to to go based on some criteria. And the criteria for this one is that it does meet the lot size. It does meet the steep slope ordinance. We're not going to fill on the slopes at all. and it does meet the tree protection ordinance. So, that's uh that's a really good thing. And like Commissioner Waterman said, there's no variances that have to be approved on this one. I do take heart that it was not split into three. I think if there was three on there, then the neighbors would be even more up in arms. Personally, with that lot the way it is, I know theoretically a house to be built there is possible if a lot split does happen in the future. But it's pretty telling that the that the the current owner and uh thank you for coming up Bruce and giving your side of it that you would not want to split it and have a house next to you. I think that's telling about how the neighbors feel about it too. But on the other side, like [clears throat] former commissioner Powers would always say, you don't own your view and you have to balance that right between community rights and and individual uh personal freedom. So, it's it's important that we we follow what what is in what's in the guidelines. And while as a neighbor, I I lament the loss of trees and loss of some wildlife habitat, I don't see any compelling reason why I can recommend denial of this one. So, am I overjoyed about this? Not really. But I know that it'll make a good home for some family. And what do some people think is a non-desirable lot, I think, relatively speaking, a lot of other people think it's a very desirable lot. So, I hopefully it'll work out well. And I I would encourage I welcome the new neighbors into the neighborhood, maybe bring them a pie or something. So, it am [clears throat] I in favor of it? Yes, I think I am. >> Commissioner Banks. >> Thanks, Chair. Um yeah, I'm I'm in agreement with this as well. I um agree with the appro um recommendation by staff and great job with the presentation. Um all of the points have been mentioned why this is um you know worth approving um because it meets all the requirements and but a couple things to point out that I kind of appreciate is you know uh there is an potentially an opportunity to you know tear down the tear down the existing home build another home here where um is showing like the the number one buildable area. Um but the owner is not doing that. they're they're keeping their existing home. I do like that. Um although there are tree removals and and none of us like that. Uh it seems to be saturated um on the U buildable lot too. And so that corner um of old old Excels here in Sparrow will um not have any trees removed which is I think is a great thing going into the neighborhood. Um so for all of those reasons, you know, I'm I'm in favor of this as well. Thank you. I do not like going last here, you guys. Um I agree. Uh this checks the the boxes, as Commissioner Waterman would say, of meeting those three requirements outlined by staff. Um and I feel that there's while it's not something I would be super excited to see go in in my neighborhood, I do appreciate having additional housing in in Minnetonka. And this um this fits in this uh in this space. Uh I sense that we're ready for a motion here uh to recommend that the city council approve the resolution denying Dong Estates's preliminary platier road. Is there anyone who would like to make that motion? >> I'm just making sure chair that you said approving it or did you say can you repeat that with approving? I think that's what I >> recommend that the city council approve the resolution. >> I'll make that that motion >> motion. Waterman second minion. Uh staff please pull the commission. >> Henry, >> yes. >> Minion, >> yes. >> Waterman, >> yes. >> Banks, >> yes. >> Brink, >> yes. >> Chair Maxwell, >> yes. That is six uh votes. The motion carries. And that is a recommendation to the city council that will be considered on the November 11th, 2025 meeting. All right, good luck with your project. The next item on the agenda, I've lost my place. The next item on the agenda is the concept plan item 9A for English Rose at 2000 Hopkins Crossroad. Uh Miss Thomas, I believe this is your item. It is. Thank you. Uh chair and commission. This evening uh the planning commission is being requested to discuss the concept plan to provide feedback. There's no formal action as you know taken during a concept plan review process. We got that twice there. Um [laughter] >> just to really remind you that uh we're discussing the concept. So the site itself is located uh southwest of the I394 Hopkins Crossroad interchange. It's 2 and a2 acres in size uh zoned R1 which is lowdensity residential and it's similarly guided for lowdensity residential development in the 2040 comprehensive guide plan. In 1920, Oaknull Elementary School was built on the property and then that addition on the south side or the left side of your screen here uh was made in in the decades that followed. In 1982, the school building closed and it was then occupied by Omagon, which is an adolescent uh residential drug treatment facility. and Omagon closed I believe in 2022. The Excelsier group has submitted four concept plans for redevelopment of the site. Each of those four includes uh construction of new 10bedroom licensed residential care facilities for individuals living with Alzheimer's or other uh forms of dementia. The one-story homes that are shown on each of these concepts uh would have a central common area or spaces with then bedroom wings on uh both sides. Miss Wishnack is trying to help me, but I we're not having a mouse. Um hopefully you can uh see that uh two of the concepts uh shown on this screen consider preserving the oldest uh section of the existing school building and then two concepts do show the the complete uh removal of the school. the Excelsier Group and uh English Rose, the care home provider, did host a neighborhood meeting last month at the end of September. We had roughly 20 area residents uh in attendance. It was held at the the school building. And in general, I would say that the residents expressed support for the residential care use of the site. Um they also preferred those concepts that removed the school building. Um there was some indication that there was concern about how other uses of that building may impact already high levels of traffic on Hopkins Crossroad. So as a reminder uh to the commission and the public, we are in concept plan review stage which is sometimes the first phase of a two-phase process. Sometimes we don't get to that second phase. So the planning commission here this evening is being asked to provide general feedback on the concept uh as detailed engineering plans have not been drafted uh pending the feedback uh that uh the group gets this evening and before the council. We do not have answers to detailed questions. So, we cannot answer questions about storm water treatment or tree removal or specific grading plans because those details are part of a formal application and are reviewed and evaluated at that time. What we are requesting that you do this evening is provide comments and then answer three specific questions. Is there a merit for a concept to proceed to formal development review? If yes, which one and why? Uh if you have a preference and if not, if you think this concept isn't appropriate, why uh in general? And then what would make the concept better? Or uh put another way, what would you like to see um in terms of information, whether it's from the applicant or staff if this moves forward to um a full formal development review. So again, that is our recommendation. No formal action is required. I would turn it over to the chair and the applicant at this time. Uh thank you, Miss Thomas. Uh I'm just going to open a presentation that the applicant had brought. >> Okay. Um could we have the applicant come forward to give their presentation, please? Hello there together. Okay. Hello there. My name is um Joshua Wart. I am the owner of a company called English Rose. I'm a resident of the city of Minnetonka. Born and raised here. I did leave once for four years and went to College of Madison. But uh I've been here in all the other years. I'm also a neighbor of this project uh that we're talking about right now. I live in the neighborhood right behind it. Forest Hills is the name of a neighborhood that's connected to I think the Hillway neighborhood and I'm about midway between the two. And um [clears throat] I'm just going to spend a couple minutes providing a little context and then I'm going to sit back down and let the Excelsier group tell you really the details. So I'm just going to tell you a little bit about English Rose. >> I apologize. We're No, I'm laughing at my inability to get this up. I apologize. [sighs] So, as I think everyone probably knows, but maybe not everyone in in the general population, we're seeing a big demographic switch in uh shift in America right now. Um, by the time we hit, one in four, 25% of Americans will be older adults over the age of 65, which is quite a change from right now. Such a change that between 2020 and60, we're going to see an increase in that population of 70%. That's a big change. But if you divide that by the four decades and into 10-year chunks, on average, that's about 17.5% every 10 years. Minnitanka is way ahead of the curve on this one. Um there Minnetonka has forecasted that they will see a 40% increase in older adults uh over the next 10 years. Um, and so I appreciate uh that the city's very aware of this and I appreciate the fact the city's uh wants to be a dementia friendly city and have taken a number of steps in that direction. And one of those steps includes offering a variety of different kinds of housing for people with Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia. And I would be honored to open up uh an English Rose suite, they're called, here in the city of Minnetonka. [snorts] English Rose has been around since 1997, so almost 30 years. And we are nationally and even internationally recognized as a dementia care expert. Um we provide really three services. Uh we provide one home care. The truth is most people want to live as long as possible in the comfort of their own home. And so we have a home care division that helps people do that. Secondly, we offer residential care which are single family homes in residential neighborhoods where we provide a very unique form or a unique approach to care for people with dementia. And the third is community education where we go out and do speaking and this is an area that's growing for us to lower the stigma that dement that comes with dementia and educate the population. Um let's see. Um I am um okay so I just wanted I'm just going to be two more minutes one minute about our unique approach. So we have kind of two levers of this unique approach maybe maybe three. One is um we're very non uh pharmarmacological. So we take a very holistic approach to caring for people with Alzheimer's and dementia and it's a relationshipbased. So um the second one is um we try very hard uh to make sure that our residents who are living in industrial suites are living as close to the normal life they were living before dementia while they're living with us. And you won't find that at any other facility uh dementia care facility. Um people engage in their um in their hobbies. Uh people uh are surrounded by loving caregivers who help them um maintain as normal of a life as possible. And the third component or the third lever of our approach is we want to do this in a very residential non-institutional manner. So these are houses. These are homes in residential neighborhoods in R1 districts. That's our unique kind of formula. Um, we're able to do that uh through a a couple ways or or I'll just mention one more thing about us. The way we're able to provide the homes are the homes, but people really come to English Rose for the care. And the way we provide that care is with an amazing staff and amazing staffing model. I'll tell you, we have the best greatest caregivers in the world. And I'll just end there. I won't describe why I can prove that to you or why why that's true. You just have to trust me on that. Okay, but here's something that's just a statistic. So, in long-term care facilities in the state of Minnesota, the average ratio of caregiver to resident is an astonishing 1 to 18. Okay? And ours is 1:3. And that's how we're able to provide people with the best life they can live considering their abilities. And so, it's a really unique and wonderful care model. And I'd be honored and excited to bring it to Minnotonka. Very excited about this site. Um, I'm very I was at the neighborhood meeting of course and was surrounded by my neighbors and everyone was unanimously excited about the concepts. Um, and so with no further ado, I'll introduce Jill Ker and Chris Culp with the with uh the Excelsia group. They're my kind of partners and and moving the project through the entitlement process and actually constructing uh doing the lot split and ground work and constructing the facilities. Thanks so much. Great. >> Thanks, Joshua. Um, as Joshua said, I'm Jill Kleiner. I work for the Excelsier Group and we've partnered with English Rose to help them just work through this entitlement process and get it from a concept into a home um hopefully that his residents can move into. Um, as the staff uh report notes, the English Rose homes that we propose to build are classified as licensed care facilities. So, in a residential district, which is where uh English Rose wants to be, um these homes are permitted through a conditional use permit. And um but I'll note it's challenging to find a site that meets the requirements of the PUP. Um so, specifically, they need to be on lots where there's at least one acre for each home. um direct access to a collector street such as Hopkins Crossroad and plenty of space for a minimum of in this case five parking spaces per home while meeting high design standards. Um so we're really excited about this site because this location does in fact meet the required site standards for a licensed care facility. Um, in addition, we had our neighborhood meeting about a month ago and received really strong support um from the community for the English Rose model and um both the types of homes that we are proposing to design as well as for the dementia care um services that English Rose provides at this location. So that's a big deal and um we are optimistic that we can develop a plan that will also be viewed positively by the planning commission and the city council and um are really looking forward to getting some feedback from you today. Um, as Miss Thomas reported, we have provided four concept plans for review and um, we're looking forward to getting feedback on the site plan options um, in advance of the discussion. I'll just highlight some of the site features that impact all of the proposals and then a few of the details that are unique to each of the different plans. So all of the plans propose a about approximately 7,000 square foot singlestory home. Um we have completed a tree study and the impact of the tree canopy in this location is pretty minimal. Um, preliminary engineering indicates that we have sufficient space to manage storm water on site and you uh we plan to utilize native plantings and pollinators and incorporate that into our landscaping design which really will be a benefit for the residents um future residents as well. There is a small wetland to the souththeast corner of the site. So we'll need to leave some sufficient space to appropriately design um for preservation of that wetland area as well. So then as we look at either the two or three home plans, the plans that um uh do remove the existing building, um I'll note that in our community meeting, we received the strongest or very strong support um for these plans uh with a preference toward the two home plans. Um, it also is our preferred plan as it helps to create that residential feel that is so critical to the success of the English Rose model. There's plenty of room for parking in either of these um plans for both staff and f family members who um will be visiting the uh English Rose residents and to provide the parking in a way that also retains the residential feel of the neighborhood, right? I mean, that is equally as important to English Rose as it is to the surrounding community. Another thing that's really important to English Rose is to have outdoor gathering and activity space for residents. So, walking paths, seating areas, raised gardening beds. Joshua mentioned that, you know, the goal is to create as many opportunities for living your same life that you've always lived in the English Rose community as possible. And so, those are all really important features. And while we're showing that in both plans, it does just, you know, things start to get really a lot more condensed and compromised as we fit more uses on the site. Um, in the plans where we retain the existing building, um, we know that building preservation is important to the city from both a sustainability standpoint and a heritage preservation perspective. So we also spent a significant amount of time studying options for you reusing the existing building and incorporating that into an English rose plan. So the most important thing to point out here is that it's just it's not a big site. It's 2 and a half acres, but for all these uses it's not big. So, if you look at the corner of the closest building to the school, that's probably about three car lengths away from a bedroom window to the existing building. And I point that out to say that it is absolutely critical that these uses be synergistic. That if if we were to retain the existing building that it would um support and enhance the uh vision for for the English Rose community and not detract from that. Um you know and and it would also have to be complimentary because it really changes the vision. It changes it from a re residential feel to more of a mixeduse type community in this space. Um, we've put a lot of effort into vetting potential users of the space. Our favorite idea was um to try to attract an adult daycare program to the building. So if you aren't familiar with those um it's somewhere where as um uh people are either aging or you know beginning their um uh their life changes with dementia or other forms they can come to this day adult um space for a day right give caregivers a break be surrounded by people that can engage them um and we like that idea it helps to break down the stigma between dementia care it's synergistic with English rose Um, however, as we reached out to various providers in the space, we did determine that they can't afford even to cover the annual operating expenses for the building, which we have underwritten using existing utility bills and um, looking at other operating expenses and expect to be around $130,000 a year. So, that's not any rent, no money to like offset the cost of actually fixing the building up, just to functionally keep it operating. So it won't you work for users um for that type of user. So then we took a look at um our next best idea was a daycare thinking the idea of this intergener creating an intergenerational space. Um and I would say that the biggest um challenge there is that daycare users of this size require about 35 to 40 parking spaces. So it really just created a need for a lot of parking on the site. We showed a couple of different plans because we hadn't landed on anything that really worked. So, we just wanted to put some ideas out there um for discussion. Um I will also note this plan was presented but not wellreceived at the neighborhood meeting. So retaining the building and combining multiple uses on site would likely require variances and flexibility from the city as well as financial assistance to renovate the building which is in poor condition. Therefore, we wanted to discuss these plans early with the planning commission to understand which plan has the most merit um to advance for a formal development application review. Um so those are some of the details of the two sites and again we're just very thankful for the time and would love to get uh feedback on which concept um we should put effort into pursuing for further >> thank you staff could you advise me on next steps here? Are we having a public hearing or asking questions or giving feedback? >> Uh, chair, I would suggest that you open the floor for public comment first and then um you can ask uh the questions that you have and provide your feedback. >> Thanks, Miss Thomas. All right, at this point I will open the floor for public comments. If you'd like to make a comment, uh leave your uh give your name and your address for the record, please. Good evening. My name is Ethan [clears throat] Adam. I live at 10301 Cedar Lake Road. Um I am also currently the president of the Sherwood Forest Association and I grew up in that neighborhood. I went to that school. Uh I believe you did too or in the area. I know you're in the area. Yep. And uh we're neighbors too. Uh Sherwood Hills and Sherwood Forest. So, um, big background on that and a big passion for the area. I'm also involved with the Minnitonka Historical Society and, uh, a volunteer at the Burwell House for tours and those kind of things. I applaud and love what English Rose is doing and stands for. I had a loved one in my life dealing with Alzheimer's for many years. So, I love that and appreciate it very, very much. A concern of many several residents I've spoken to. Uh, unfortunately I'm late to the party uh and didn't I missed some of the the notices on this and I wish I'd been at the meeting but we have lost a lot of history in Minnetonka. There's hardly anything really that brings us back to the past except for the Burwell House thankfully in those buildings over there. The Burwell School is now renamed St. David's. There's not any real vestage of good old Minnotonka. very very little in the old city hall across on Minnetonka Drive. So my concern and our concern and several of us that haven't been heard of perhaps from other than Burwell and the scant recognition that was Minnetonka Mills along the creek there is this is one last building one last historic building and I understand there's a ton of challenges with keeping it but I would urge us to try to figure out um passionately to keep Oaknull school, Oakno School there. Um, and to point of record, the addition was added in 1950. I heard that. I learned that a while back. But anyway, but the 1920 school, it would be a shame to have another building go down. So, that's that's what many of our concerns are. Um, it's not about me going to the school and having sentimental views of that. It's really more about history uh of the area. And one last vestage uh yeah it's a shell but it's also um I think it's important part to consider retaining maintaining of the school building. So thank you for your time. I appreciate it. My name is Jim Sy and I live at 11201 Timberline Road. I share 299 feet with the uh property and I've been there since 1980. Um I can understand and appreciate the need for the the community to have some history. However, that building has been a source of nuisance to me personally and to the neighborhood for a long period of time. Um I support the concept that I have with two buildings. The number three concept, it seems very good and very worthwhile. Uh my biggest concern is if you keep the existing building, we're going to have a major problem with traffic, people going in and out. Right now, we already have a very serious problem with traffic. There's times it may take 7 to 10 minutes to make a left-hand turn. Frequently, we'll wind up making a right turn, going down, and making a U-turn to get out if we've got to be somewhere or we actually go through Sherwood Forest to get through Plymouth Road. So keeping the existing building that if you do decide to do that, you need to do something to affect the traffic that's there. That's my great concern. Thank you. Hi, I'm Charlie Greenman. I live at 11421 Live Oak Drive and uh just around the corner from the building. Um and I have a lot of respect for historic buildings. Um and an appreciation for the work that's been done in that building uh since I've been a resident. Um I speak on behalf of uh plan concept plan three which is the two buildings. Um my main uh interest in that is that um there are 25 parking spaces total if you have that building and that's a lot more asphalt than you would have with the two uh with the two residences. Um uh and as I understand it, I correct me if I'm wrong, there isn't there is not a use yet or an entity yet who has signed on to make use of the building and that would be an essential element if the building were be were to be a part uh of the project. So, I think the green space that's there, there's a trail that wander that goes through that you can see in the two building proposition is is is one is a good one and I like that. I think it fits in the neighborhood. I think the design of the buildings fits in the neighborhood. I think too um there's a I was just thinking about this. There's a bit of an historic um element to having this property be helping people with memory care and dementia. Uh when it has been a school uh for children, when it has been an adolescent chemical dependency program, that's a positive thing and something that I would be proud of to have and um and to be a neighbor to. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on this item? All right. This point I'll close the public hearing and I will open the uh bring it back to the commission to give any comments on this item. Who wants to go first? Commissioner Waterman. >> Okay. Are we okay to do questions or it's really just comments? >> Uh, you can certainly ask ask questions if if we're able to answer them, we will. [snorts] >> Do you mind if I ask a question? Chair? >> You may ask a question. >> It's actually for the applicant. Um just for clarification it's you mentioned in in your presentation that your your preferred uh version is the two home option without the existing structure there. My question I'll get to it is why not three? And then just a little bit of background. I know you mentioned you're trying to um maximize the utility and the activities on site. Um, typically when we see regular residential development projects, we see as many homes jammed in as possible. So, I'm a little bit surprised you're not pushing for three. And it sounds like there's a lot of preference for two. So, I'm just curious why why not three? And would and actually add on to that, would you think about doing two and then having space or a plan to add on a third? Um so the reason that we we studied three because we wanted to look at maximizing density um on the site. However, um the plan for two actually just it works better for English Rose and their goals for creating a um residential field community for their residents to um ensure that we have um sufficient parking without the parking taking over the residential feel. um and uh to retain plenty of green and open space. So, and also at our community feedback meeting um we received a lot of support for that plan um and took that to heart. We've really valued the support that we've gotten from the neighbors and um it's the two home plan is a home that a plan that also works very well for English Rose and as that's the preference for the community that is the one that we would also prefer to move forward with. >> Yeah. Who's next? >> Commissioner Henry. [clears throat] >> Thanks, Miss Ker. If you'd stay up there, I have a couple more questions for you, too. Do you have a vision for you said your preference was the two home proposal and it shows in the picture there's a large wooded area in the corner in the front. Do you have a vision? You mentioned that you wanted to emphasize open areas, meeting spaces too. It looks like a big forest there and there's a little bit of a trail through there. Is that what you're proposing or is that what you're envisioning? So there will be an evolution as we go through engineering and you know as Miss Thomas mentioned figure out where sewer is going to connect. We've also begun the process of getting more detailed with our architect um to figure out how to lay out the homes in a way that works well for the staff and um English Rose. got some feedback that the really long homes is less desirable. And so we're we're evaluating some more. We could break up the um the footprints a little bit more so that it just again feels a little bit more compact and more like a traditional single family home. Um and in doing so that will shift some of the green space. What is important to us is that we have um create some screening from Hopkins Crossroad for the home. So to have some trees, you know, out in front um to retain or to create um outdoor seating area potentially with a gazebo, somewhere where um either residents can can sit or family members can gather together outside. Um, again, the community gardening space is something that we'd really like to do. Um, um, and then as well as [snorts] just using that as an opportunity. So, yes, to create some walking paths. Um, we'll have to look at creating a um, safe, secure space for the residents, but, you know, wanting to be able to get out and still walk and be outside. >> Thank you. Another question I had was in the proposal you showed you showcased a lot of modern architecture. Big open windows, vaulted ceilings. Personally, I love it and I hope that that can come to fruition. In the other smaller pictures, you showed a variety of home types. There's colonial or mid-century. There's standard type. Do you have a a preference? And then in the meetings that you had with the neighbors, did they express a preference about that? >> Yeah, great question. Um so we have hired Christian Dean Architects um who is a very well- reggarded um incredibly talented local architect. Uh he and his firm tend to be more on the modern side and and as you can see in the home here which I learned was actually built by one of the neighbors who lives across the street. So she moved built this home. She said that's my house on your presentation. Um and uh her um I believe she rents the home currently maybe to one of her family members across the street. Um so that is also Joshua's preferred style which is why uh we engaged um Christian Dean to be our architect. Um but also they are just incredibly good at figuring out how to fit homes into landscapes, take advantage of views and and there is a significant amount of tree space um behind the homes. Um, I don't know what style we're going to end at. Um, I will say operationally flat homes are more expensive to maintain long term than vaulted. So, but that'll be all part of the design iteration. Um, and we showed uh a number of neighborhood images just to say that this community has a really diverse um architecture. They've got some very new modern homes and and some more traditional um home styles as well. and it all fits together really well. Um, and so the feedback that we got was not specific to a architectural type, but rather a positive response to our desire to create really beautiful, well landscaped homes that would be appealing for um and drive values for the surrounding community as well as be appealing to um future English Rose residents. >> Thank you. It sounds like a lot of thought was put into the decision. So, I I applaud that. And as also a member of the sustainability commission, I'd like to make sure that some other thought was put into you said about long-term upkeep maintenance of the house too. Have you thought about and maybe Christian Dean does this too, but to maximize the energy efficiency of the house, even going as far as making it carbon neutral? >> Has any thought been put into that? too early for us to talk about getting as detailed as carbon neutral but um we are certainly as you know English Rose will be the longtime operators of the home will be paying a lot of attention to the efficiency of the home and long-term expenses. So and we have heard loud and clear from the city um and and share this view of the importance of incorporating sustainability into any new development that we do. >> Thank you. All right. While Miss Ker is up here, does anybody else have questions for her? >> Commissioner Minion. >> I've got a bunch of questions. So, >> um [clears throat] I'm big into preserving old properties and and I think there's a lot of history in that. Will you talk a little bit about the current building? Um I can see from the side that's been updated, high efficiency heating equipment installed in it. Will you talk a little bit about the condition of the windows? Is it a warm space now? Is it a comfortable space now? Uh, I see stairs in the front. I see obstacles in the back. How is it in regards to being ADA efficient? Um, how are the restrooms? How are the doors? Can you get through them with a wheelchair? Is it is it something you can navigate with a walker or a pair of crutches? We kind of just the overall uh condition of the current property. >> Yeah. I'm probably the worst one to speak to that. Um, however, is in terms of the condition of the windows and and and current efficiency, I can't speak to. Having been in it, it would certainly require significant updates in order to be ADA compliant, believe. >> Okay. You're saying the windows, as you far as you know, are are they they obviously look like they've been replaced. What I'm getting at is is it a comfortable space? Is it a is a space that if you wanted an elderly person to be in, would they be in a in a would they be wrapped in a quilt or would they be [clears throat] you know how what's the >> I think it for if any end use of this building I would anticipate that it would need a full interior renov interior renovation. >> Okay. >> It's not in a condition to be repurposed as it is today. >> Any elevators inside? Anything like that? >> Yes. >> Yes. So, they do have elevators. >> No, no elevators inside. The doors are 30 in, which aren't wide enough. Um Um the um Yeah. >> So, I'm kind of an architectural architectural afficionado. Um but I'm no architect, so take everything I say, you know, with probably 90% right. Um, but nothing on the inside works for for us at all. You know, it's all very old and very old space. So, the bathrooms, I mean, there's no ADA bathrooms. There is no elevator. There's you you've already identified 88 struggles to get in and out the the front and back. We, you know, those could be addressed with money, right? And ramps and things like that. And we really tried really hard to try to make this work cuz I love old buildings. I love them. And I've renovated an old building before uh with some partners. Um, but we just can't figure out how to make it work. And and nothing on the inside could be saved. No matter if it was to use for seniors or used for little babies or something in between, the whole interior would have to be gutted and redone. It's really in in rough shape. Though it doesn't look like it's in rough shape from the outside, the inside is pretty bad. >> Okay. Would there be a bandwidth at all if the building were to come down to do some sort of homage? maybe keep the cornerstone or the neighboring stone, something like that. Would there be a way to incorporate that into maybe a garden or somehow to uh give credit to the architecture that was there and the number of children that had been through it and and have enjoyed a wonderful time there in the past? Yeah, we were actually having that same conversation just outside the chambers before the meeting started and um you know, we've talked a lot about the outdoor gathering space that we want to create and could there be an opportunity there to incor to take some of the building elements and reuse them there. Um maybe even name the garden space after the school, reuse some of the bricks. I mean, I think there are a lot of really cool ways that we could um incorporate it. And again, it's just it fits so well with our vision for English Rose because it really is creating a a community, somewhere where people want to be, somewhere where you feel something. And so, um, utilizing some elements in the building and the new design would be something we'd be really excited to do. >> Okay. Yeah, I've got Miss Miss Thomas's Miss Thomas's. I'm going to make sure I don't get the hook from her. I don't want to get too deep in the details. Um, one of the things that my mind goes to when we talk about people that we're going to concentrate in an area of a certain condition, whether it be um, you know, a physical handicapped, a mental handicap, that type of thing, is how do we best protect them? >> Uh, when we look at putting buildings like this near a body of water, it makes me cringe. Um, in this case, we have a heavy road out front. I see that you've done a great job of laying out a gradient landscape plan. Obviously, this is all conceptual, but um is there an opportunity to possibly put in a hedge that would be an attractive obstacle to a person from wandering out into the busy street? Obviously, there's places where cars can drive, but [clears throat] kind of what I'm saying is, is there an opportunity for you to put some sort of a physical barrier in there to slow somebody down that was maybe came out, that type of a thing, and and keep them in out of harm's way? I think we will be fully aligned in your goals of using design, both landscape design and architectural design in order to create a safe space um for the residents with dementia. But Joshua could potentially speak as well to you know >> the the way we operate um so in in 27 years or 28 almost now we've never had one elopment which is what it's called. Um, but it's because of our staffing model. You know, 1 to 18 things can happen. Doors can swing open and people can sneak out. It just doesn't happen in these little teeny homes with so much staff inside the homes. So, we three staff people there at all times. Um, also three of our homes, no, two of our homes are on water with a pond. And, um, we've we've um we have fences in the backyards and we'll have fencing here. like the green space will all be fenced in. So there um but there will be a front door that will lead out to the parking spots, right? The driveway and so there's really only one door. Um but those doors uh they have delayed egress systems in place so they cannot be opened without a code which is a regulation by the Minnesota Department of Health. Um, and so I think in those big buildings if there's an alopment, you know, I think um, there must be those doors must be swinging in and out cuz they got a hundred people in there and so people are coming and going and somehow they lose track. It just doesn't happen in an English rose suite at all. So, um I don't but we would be you know just to let you know we we're not I mean we run a tight ship and we will do everything we can and I love all the ideas about like a hedro and things like that to just add layers of security to our community. >> Thank you for your consideration. >> Do you have a question for the applicant or are you ready for comments? >> Yes, just one more question. >> Okay. Uh, Miss K, you mentioned in your presentation that there was a lot of a lot of criteria you had to make sure that this lot met. And is I if I heard you correctly, you said that it needs one acre per house. Is is that correct? And we can confirm with the city staff, too. >> Yes, >> that's correct. Okay. So, and you also mentioned that it's two and a half acres. So, the three house proposal wouldn't even work from that perspective. >> Go through a process that's not a cup. Yeah. >> Well, He's also a city uh code. So, >> so um for a 10-bedroom house, you need one acre. For a six-bedroom house, you don't. So, it could be two tens and a six. That could be the maximum use for us. I think if it's single family homes, you could get four houses on there. But for our use, you don't it would be a maximum of three. >> That's great. Thank you. No further questions for me. >> All right. At this time, I'd like to move on to commissioner um feedback where we'd like to answer the questions. If you could put back up on the screen, staff, what we're looking for, is there mayor for this to go forward? Which of the plans do you like better? Why or why not? And then if you have further questions for the applicant, you could phrase them as here's what I would like to see when you come forward with that application. Uh so, who would like to go first on feedback? Commissioner Banks. >> Thank you, Chair. Um, yeah, I think [clears throat] thanks for the presentation, all the great information. Um, staff, thanks for the presentation. Um, you know, we look forward to having you in the community. I believe you were here previously with with, uh, a concept. Um, but this, um, looks [clears throat] good. Looks like it it it fits that area. I got a chance to ride by and see um just how big the um the acorage was or the the the lots were, which um it seems like this would be a great addition in that neighborhood. Um is there merit for this concept to move forward? Um I believe so. I I think it's um kind of checks all the boxes for um what we can do in that area and what we perceive to do in that area uh with our our master plan. Um I would would have liked to have seen um the existing building stay with the concept one concept two but I I get the challenges with the older building um finding you know a tenant um [clears throat] and it just doesn't seem like you know it it it's feasible um even though uh maybe possible but probably not not feasible um so between the two concepts three and four um I am in agreement with the two building um with the 20 20 beds. But one thing I I just kind of looking at a couple things. One, the parking space the the the parking for concept 3 just it it feels like and I could be wrong that um where the cars can park are a little bit further away from the doors of the buildings. Um, so with that, I'm kind of in favor of like the parking scheme of concept 4, but with the two buildings where the the parking is just a little bit closer, just assuming that, you know, the the target um residents and, you know, staff coming in with, you know, um, you know, bags or whatever, you know, packages or whatever the case may be. Um it might just be uh better to have um parking a little bit closer than than the roundabouts that we have that's a little bit further away. Um one of the I did I did like the um modern aspect and hopefully um the the architect firm that you've selected will stay in that in that area. Um, I think that would be great in that in that um in that area to have more of modern, especially with their there all being single level homes. Uh, I think that would just look great to have a very modern feel. Um, and let's see. So, yeah, those are some of just highlights. I think there you'll get more feedback from the other commissioners, but yeah, nice job so far. First off, >> thank you for your effort and your mission. I think it's wonderful. Um, I appreciate what you're doing. Um, is there a concept? Absolutely. We know that this need is going to continue to grow and I think that uh it's a a great use for the property. Um, if you didn't see it, my toes were shivering. We talk about the windows because uh when the wind blows in my 1908 home, so do my drapes. And [clears throat] long story short is if we're going to put anybody young or old in that building, uh even though it does have a new heating plant in it, I would imagine it's not going to be the most pleasant place to be. Um and I would be more in favor of seeing the building come down if it could replace with something new. Um to that though, I would like to see more of the three building plan. Possibly start out with the two buildings and then as time needs, I would rather see something that we would approve the three building plan and then as a time came through if the third building came around, maybe put that in a day two type of scenario. Um in regards to making the concept better, I like we talked about some sort of an homage to the current building. I think there's a great history there and I think it's something we should celebrate and try to remember. Um, and any ways we can continue to protect the people that are there I think is really important. So I again I'm I'm really in favor of this and and uh I really appreciate what you guys are doing. Thank you, >> Commissioner Henry. >> Thank you. Does the proposal have merit? Yes, I think it does. In my opinion, this is probably the highest and best use of the property. And based on what I read in the packet based on community feedback, [clears throat] which proposal do I prefer? I prefer the proposal number three. It sounds like that's the preferred one for the applicant, for the the people in the neighborhood. Although Ethan, I do respect and I do appreciate you coming forward and talking about the need for preserving the structure, I'm a big fan of preserving history. And when at all possible, I think steps should be made to preserve that history. In this case, with the use of the property, it seems like the logistical challenges of preserving the the school in its entirety are really insurmountable. So, I wouldn't block this proposal to say that you have to preserve the building, but I do echo Commissioner Minion about we do need to have some memory of that school as it was. So, I would love to see the facade of the school, the brick facade with the the etched in stone, the name of the school, put that out in the front of the road and then have a historical marker to say this is what was here and this is who was here to give some of that history. Don't take it away completely from Mitaka. Let us keep some of that. So that could be some middle ground proposal for doing that. How I like to see more details to it. I've already asked a lot of details in the in the the presentation, but I would love to see more about the architecture, what's happening, and I would love to see it as modern homes. You talked about preserving the history of Minnitankka and a lot of you here if you're history afficionados you probably know that Frank Lidd Wright Jr. built a house and that was completely it was thankfully it wasn't torn down it was relocated over to uh it's called Polymath Park over in Pennsylvania where there's some Franklidd Wright senior houses. So it's not the same as what that is but we could take a little bit of this chunk of history and preserve it in the spot where the history happened. So, I think there's there's room for doing that, but absolutely have modern style homes. Make sure that they're efficient. Make sure that it's tactically it's lower operating cost. That's going to be good for for English Rose and then it's going to be beautiful for the community, too. Other things I'm looking forward to seeing the development of the green space and I love the idea of taking the school out and having that big almost a mini forest in that corner. It's going to be good for the safety of the people in the houses. It's going to be good for people driving down the road and they're going to see more of what Minnitanka special about Minnitankka and that's the tree cover. So, if we can make the best use of the property, which I think this is, while adding to the canopy of Minnetonka, it's going to be great. So, I'm all in favor of this and I'm really looking forward to how it proceeds. One thing I'd like to do is to emulate this in other areas of Minnetonka. There's such a huge need for memory care and Alzheimer's care facilities. This is one area, but it's a drop in the bucket. So if we can copy paste on this one and make it a lot more pervasive in the area, I think it's going to be sorely needed. So let's take best practices and I think this surely is going to be a best practice. >> Commissioner Brink. >> Yeah, thank you chair. Uh thank you for your presentation here and your preparation of these plans. It's uh a lot of uh good hard work and we appreciate, you know, getting the the chance to uh review and comment with you. Um I think I share a lot of the same uh feelings as the other commissioner members. Um I I think I'm leaning away from uh the two proposals that have the existing building there. I I kind of empathize with the reasonings for um eliminating the building. Um, and I think once you get going into the design itself, you know, into the details and, um, I think some things might flush out of that too as far as, you know, ADA requirements or environmentally, you know, sometimes when you go in and fix up a building, you get into these surprises, you know, asbestous issues and things like that. And I and I think just um even architecturally um um from an aesthetic standpoint having a building like that that has that institutional look with you know the modern homes there just how that would reconcile each other. I don't know it it might look kind of funny at least in my eyes. And then I I also shared some of Commissioner Minion's concerns about uh protection of the of the uh residents there. You know, having um an aging parent that had dementia at one time and worrying about wandering and things like that, but it's uh reassuring, you know, what you said with your your staff ratios to residents and uh the fact that you haven't had any incidents the way it sounds. you know, I had the concerns just with, you know, the property being by a busy street. Um, and then just even landscaping and how you design the site really helps with that, too. So, um, I think this is a great proposal. Whatever get does get flushed out and as you mentioned earlier, uh, Minnetonka, we're aging. I forget what you said, there'll be 40 40% more [laughter] people my age and older. That's scary. Um, but yeah, the needs for things like this are only going to just keep keep increasing and you know, we need things like this and we're going to we are going to need more. So, uh, thank you for um presenting this opportunity to the city. >> Commissioner Waterman. >> Thanks, Chair. Yeah, I I agree with almost everything my fellow commissioners have have uh talked about. I I pass by the site all the time. It's adjacent to my neighborhood. Um, and is there merit for the concept to proceed? I I think definitely. Yeah. What a great use for the site since it's really zed zoned and guided as residential, but it's really pretty tricky because it is on that major road. Um, I really appreciate all the thought that's been put into just this concept plan. Um, it is also great and there's merit I think because there's this opportunity for neighbors to chime in and it seems like there's a lot of consensus which I do not remember a situation happening um seeing. Um, it sounds like there's probably fairly minimal tree and and storm water impact and and in terms of the impact on the neighborhood sounds like we'll only improve it. Um, I like that it's singlestory, obviously for operating needs, but also it just it wouldn't feel too far outside the characteristics of the neighborhood. Um, Commissioner Brink brought up a really good point. I guess I'll echo that about the starkness of the uh existing building with the homes. And then uh to echo what uh what really a lot of the commissioners were saying, I do love finding alternative usage for heritage sites when it is where it works in a somewhat cost effective cost effective way and where there's a lot of neighborhood want for it. Um I see a lot of uh supportive comments in the um in our packet from the meeting and from this uh this uh additional asynchronous public hearing really in support of not retaining that building. Um, and I I'd also like to subscribe to what Commissioner Minion was saying about, hey, concept plan three, great for for two structures. I it's unusual. I actually would support a the concept plan four or something along those lines if that continues in that discussion just for a slightly more intensive use of the site. if we're already going to do it and there's a need in the community and if it works for for English Rose and it it seems like it wouldn't be uh too much of an impact on the neighborhood, um I might support Three Homes, but seems like there's a a consensus building with the developer and the community that uh Three Homes would be the right move. So, um overall, those are those are my comments. Just the only thing that would make it better is just when we get to more details. So, I I don't have anything more to add on that. Thank you. Anybody else? All right. So, up up to me. Um, comment for staff. I really like having four different options to discuss. Often a plan will come for us and we'll say later, oh, did you talk about did you think about this? Did you think about this? Did you? And here we can sort of get all of that out. Um, and I really appreciate that. So, thank you for the effort to consider different um uh different ideas. I think that that brings a lot of value to this concept planner. If you'd have more than one option uh to look at. Um some things I really like about this. I think this is a great use for this site. It's convenient for family members to come visit right off of the highway without having too much traffic permeating through um through the middle of neighborhoods, right? We're right on arterial uh street. So, I think that's a a good um point here. and that it's zoned for uh residential, but it has been sort of institutional in the past. So, I think that's a great use for it. Um, I appreciate that there's a single entrance off of Hopkins Crossroad instead of having two houses each with their own separate driveway. So, I'd like to see that stay. Um, I appreciate that these are a singlestory. Um, I do prefer sort of options three or four. I don't have a strong preference one way or the other. I would be okay with approving sort of three building pads and you start with two and decide later on if you want to add a third one. Um and then with I agree with um Commissioner Banks about the parking. I think that the smaller individual sort of lots would be easier for snow removal and easier for the the users visitors of your space, staff of your space u may have less of a residential feel, but I think that long term would probably work out um better. um at like to see a landscaping plan. We talked a bit about that with the final proposal. And then two other other things, if you do go forward with retaining the existing building, it sounds like there may be some need for a traffic stud. It was a daycare use, for example, and you have 50 people coming in all during rush hour. Would that require a turn lane or something like that might be information that we would ask about? It would be the traffic requirements if that use were to uh go forward. And then last thing, all of these plants have sort of a a 90deree turn sort of north to west to get to that back lot. Uh in the road, there's a like you come in from from the road, then you north and 90 degree and maybe there'd be a way to sort of cut that corner to have more space for green space if you were just doing the two uh two building plan. So those are my uh my comments on it. Overall, I really like this. Um any of these concepts I think have merit to go forward. My preferences would be for numbers three or number four. Any other comments from commissioners. All right. Anything else staff that you need from us as part of this uh concept plan? >> Uh no. Thank you very much. We've taken a lot of notes here. Um very good comments. >> All right. At this point, we'll move on to our last agenda item of the day, which is adjournment. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> I'll make that motion. >> Motion Waterman. >> I'll second. >> Second. Thanks. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> We are adjourned. Have a good night.