Heat. Heat. Suspense is killing me. Good evening. Welcome to the May 6th meeting of the Minnitankka Park Board. >> Leslie, will you uh call a roll? >> I will. Christie >> here. >> Hanley >> here. >> Larman is absent. Um Schultz is here. He's just been in the room, so we'll >> have him come in. >> Charlie >> shortly. Uh Schultz, >> I mean Samky >> here. Uh, Ingraham >> here >> and Kowalsski is absent. >> So, we do have quorum. >> Great. Um, anybody have any changes or comments on the agenda? Otherwise, do I have a motion? >> I just want to point out we do have one addendum. Uh, it's a we do. It's an addition uh just additional comment for both the item 7A which is the Glen Lake Park master plan and item 7B which is the CIP. So there was one comment in each of those that came in um since the packet went out. >> Uh motion to approve the agenda with the amendments. >> I'll second. >> All right, Christie. >> Yes. Hanley >> approve. >> Uh Schultz just entered. >> Uh Samurski >> approved. >> And Ingraham >> approved. >> Okay, that does pass. >> All right, that brings us to item four, the minutes from our March 4th meeting. Uh did anybody have any questions or comments about the minutes? Otherwise, we want to move approval of the minutes. >> I move that we approve the minutes from the previous meeting. >> I second. >> All right. Uh Christie, >> approve. >> Hanley, >> approve. >> Schultz, >> yes. >> Samurski, >> approve. >> Ingram, >> approve. Item five, uh, citizens wishing to discuss items not on the agenda. Do we have any people want to discuss items on the agenda? We do not. So, we'll go to special matters. And I don't think we have any special matters. >> That'll bring us to business item 7A, which is the Glenn Lake Park update. I think that's Matt or >> that is Matt. >> Great. That's me. >> Thank you, Chair Anraham Park. Um, tonight I'm going to walk you through some preliminary concepts for the Glen Lake Park master plan. We're pretty excited about this. It's been a long time coming. So, way back in the post plan, we had identified upgrading uh the skate park in Minnotonka as a high priority item. Um in 2023, the city council adopted a skate park feasibility study. Um we looked at numerous sites throughout throughout the city, tried to uh assess criteria for what would make a good skate park location, and eventually settled on Glen Lake Park as being a top priority to implement a skate park. The park board approved that study and recommended it to adoption to the city council back in 2023. Um so the red star is a little reminder where Glen Lake Park is sort of south central city of Minnetonka. So there has been a lot of um swirling in the background behind this effort. So, um, there was a new state statute two years ago now that promoted the construction and renovation of public skate parks throughout the state and that was passed by the legislature. Um, we also performed a community facility study which was adopted by the council in May 2024. So, following the purchasing of the marsh, the workout facility, staff studied all recreational facilities including the Glen Lake Activity Center, which is the building at Glen Lake Park. The study recommended removing that outdated building rather than renovating it. Um staff has been meeting with uh community groups in that area that use the Glen Lake Activity Center and are working to accommodate potential changes that the removal of that building would would force upon those members of the community that use that building currently. Um also last year we received $400,000 in a grant from the Legislative Citizen Council on Minnesota Resources. this is an opportunity and that money is specifically for the construction of a new skatepark facility. So, we're pretty excited about that opportunity. Here's a couple pages from the facility study highlighting um option one, which is was the one ultimately adopted by the city council to demo the Glen Lake building, the activity center. Um some of the options there included um expanded room for a skate park in that area. we would need to explore um additional bathroom facilities and other park amenities associated with the loss of this building. Um so there's really some pros and cons to removing the building ultimately. Um so we have been performing over the past six months a outreach and engagement effort around Glen Lake Park and specifically the skate park element. Um we do know through the surveying that um there is high use of the park during ball season. So we know the Glen Lake mighty mites and gal softball league among other events take place at that park. It really gets busy at certain times. There's a very popular legacy tree sale that takes place in the eastern parking lot which is very very popular. We saw community interest in naturalistic style plantings, trees and canopy throughout the park, connections to the local trail network and walkability to nearby businesses. No surprises there. Um, folks like the modern park plaza style and and and um accessory picnic amenities that would go along with a feature like that. Um, there was a lot of comments about improving the ball field amenities, both softball and baseball, but if you've been out there, you know how high quality those facilities are already. They have great patio space that overlooks the lower field. It's really pretty spectacular. Um, we got a lot of comments about playground improvements with some comments about a bouldering wall, potential for water features, and inclusive and accessible play added to that playground. There were some concerns about the overall interest in skateboarding, how popular it is, um, and skate parks in general. There was some concerns about impacts to the ball field use and parking potentially and the loss of some storage space that happens in the Glen Lake Activity Center now by some community groups and the recreation facilities that take place there. Um, our skate park specific survey identified a mix of skate park features. So, there's some skate park jargon in here, but there's street scot, street style skates, skate amenities, which are like steps and rails. And then there's a more modern version of this, which is flow. So, it's these sort of undulating concrete banks. That's um sort of the trend in skate parks these days. And our survey said they folks, the skaters locally wanted sort of a mix of those those types of amenities. So preliminary concepts that we want to showcase tonight is an initial focus on the most visible corner. So um along Excelsier and Woodhill Road where the Glenlike Activity Center is located. That's this building here. Here's the existing skate park. There's upper parking just south of the westernmost ball field. There's some parking along Excelsier and some along Woodhill Road. So, these concepts tonight seek to accommodate a variety of potential park improvements that we're looking for your feedback on tonight and provides an overall strategy for the development of a full park master plan draft which will be coming later this year. So, with that, I'm going to turn it over to Jakey. He's a landscape architect with Damon Farber. They're a landscape architecture firm out of land out of Minneapolis. They helped us with the skate park feasibility study. So, he's really up to speed on where we are as a community in terms of skate parks and is a skater himself. So, he's going to walk us through these concepts. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. And what we're seeing here is just an existing conditions map of the site. So, this white line is the property boundary for Glen Lake Park. Um, you'll notice the groomer's parcel that's right in between here and the focus area that we're going to be talking about down in here. And highlighted in pink is the parking areas that are within this park. And we're just calling special attention to that because that'll be a big part of these proposed options is the parking and what we're um looking at. And so there's 33 stalls currently down along the existing skate park and the Glen Lake Activity Center building and then there's an additional 33 stalls up here. So one thing to note, you can kind of see the topography here, but this is sort of a level and then it ramps up to another level here and then there's a wall separating the skate park down below. So just a aspect of the existing conditions that's pretty important. Um and then the rest of this is pretty straightforward in in terms of just labeling what we have currently on the site. And maybe Matt, it'd be good if you talked about this. Yep. Phasing. So we're, you know, we're studying the park as a whole. So this whole outline is Glen Lake Park, but because we there a lot of the expense for potential park improvements and the removal of the building are down in this corner, we're calling this phase one. And we're we're putting this in front of you folks tonight to sort of zoom in on on the impacts that'll occur with the tearing down of this building and the immediate need to sort of do something um with that area. So we're calling that phase one. And then there's other phases throughout the park. For instance, we know um that we need to do some ball field area improvements where the parking sort of interacts with the a lot of the foot traffic that comes around the corner of the groomer site towards the concession stand. We know there's some issues there. Um the playground is due to be replaced. So, we we postpone that effort to sort of make way for this process to take place. Um, but we certainly know that that that play area has an opportunity to be um, you know, modernized and and and brought up to speed in terms of safety and accessibility. Um, and then, you know, otherwise we're looking at the whole footprint for the master plan, but tonight we're just focusing in on on phase one, that southwest corner. >> At some point, are you going to talk about how much parking is used when the all the ball fields are busy and the cons concerns about what would happen with the skate park. >> Yep. So, we're going to talk about the go through a number of concepts that do propose potential impacts to the parking, but they're really focused and we count the numbers in the southwest corner and how that affects. We do know and we keep track of the parking that's, you know, this 51 stalls up off of Woodill over here and then these 38 stalls over here. So we have overall park percentages, not just, you know, we're plus or minus x amount of stalls just in this corner. We're accommodating for the whole park when we think that through. >> Okay. >> Okay. So I'm going to go through three options here tonight and they're really looking at the overall layout and strategy of how to approach this corner. So, some of the ideas that I'm going to talk about, they're not mutually exclusive for each of the designs. You can kind of swap some things around, but we really wanted to show three um options with a different approach to >> how to look at this site. >> So, this first option we are calling the minimal change option. So, with the existing parking, we're really only suggesting that there's minor modifications. So potentially some resurfacing. There's an opportunity for some storm water improvements with making the parking stalls permeable for example or working with some storm water infiltration areas around the parking lot. Um but more or less it is the existing stalls um that you have now with losing a few at this corner here and those that are lost we're making up with a new parking bay right off of the woodill entry. So this roadway is really wide right now. Um and so this you can't quite see it but this is the extent of the existing entry. So it would be tightening up the drive aisle and then putting parking um into that spot on the north of the page. >> So that parking goes into what's it pave now have any carbon in the hill at all. >> Correct. So that that asphalt that was for um firetruck access and turnaround cuz there used to be two firetruck doors on both sides of the building there. So that yeah that big essentially culdeac there is a lot of pavement. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um quick question on there now. Uh is it the same amount of parking spots cuz I think it was 66 in the um before. >> Yeah. So this is just taking into account the bottom lot. So this meets that 33 stalls that was in the bottom lot before. >> Make sense? So it's just replacing park. >> Yeah, it's just a onetoone parking >> situation here. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> And can you explain what the raised pedestrian crossing means? >> Yeah. So, that is a tool that you use to slow down cars so the the it's kind of like a speed bump. So, it would kind of ramp up and then this would feel more pedestrian here so that cars coming around the corner would know to slow down. Um, it's just sort of continuing this uh area that's prioritizing pedestrians. So, we've got like this corner public space with some seating and potentially some public art. And then this um picnic shelter being shown here, which is something that's really nice to support the skate park. You've got a shaded spot where you can hang out, take a break, and then so this is just a way to kind of connect those spaces. So if you were in a wheelchair and coming from somewhere, you could go from the corner of where it says five to seven without any curves. >> Yes. Okay. Yep. Exactly. >> Yeah. And that's something we thought about here as well in this being um a lot of grade change through here like a a steep slope and just thinking about the accessibility around the site here. So we are thinking about making everything accessible. Um and then with the design of the general skate park area in this option um we are keeping the existing wall that's here now that has a mural and using that um and building off of that. So there would need to be some new wall along here to retain the grade. And this option is also showing um an idea where you could step up and then be up at this level here and then skaters would go through a tunnel between two different spaces, which is a feature um that could be kind of signature and cool for this site. Um and then you'd be able to be up here and like watching both sides of the skate park and kind of create a cool experience. >> And for people with disabilities, how would they get up? Yeah. So they would be able to go this way around up top here. So it would be going up this way. >> Currently the ADA parking is mostly up top on that hill. That is a substantial grade change through there. So there are some challenges to keeping those slopes mild. And the transition and street indicates what kinds of um features would be placed. >> That's like skate park. >> Yeah. So >> it is skate park speak. Um and we do have skatepark design builder on our team for developing the actual skatepark features, but we're right now we're really just looking at the general footprint. And so like street is one style of skateboarding where it's more the boxes, rails, and stairs. And then transition is more of like the the vertical stuff where you're going up and over like big flowing features and like catching air and coming down. >> Is there enough space for that? I don't I don't really since I don't skate, I don't have a good sense of how many lineal feet you need for getting flow. Yes, I think this would be a good area um for that to happen. There's a new park that just got built in North Minneapolis at Fawwell Park that has a transition area that's pretty close to the same size. Okay. And it's but it's really cool. >> Overall, our feasibility study identified if we want it to be sort of a regional skate park destination, we would need to get it to about 20,000 square ft. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's probably a few more things I could call out here, but we do have that to talk about next. Um, just so I cover it all within this option. Most of the existing trees will be preserved or there would be the option to have them to be preserved except for there's a nice tree right at the corner that you wouldn't be able to preserve in this concept. But for the most part, the existing trees would um be able to be protected. Um, let's see. We covered the plaza and the shelter. And yeah, so that that pretty much covers it except we also have a new stair that we're proposing on this side of the park just to increase access. Um, right now you really just have to go up this way >> and kind of you'd have to like cut through. So I think that would be a benefit just to the >> the park overall >> with the circulation. Um, but then just to touch on the square footage. So, with this option where you keep the parking more or less the same, you're going to be looking around 10,000 square ft of skate park space. You could maybe get it up to 12 to 13. Maybe if you start to cut into the green space over here, if you redo this wall and push everything up to the parking lot. So, there are ways to keep the existing parking and increase this a little bit, but this is going to be the option that shows the least amount of skate park. >> And is this also the cheaper, well, less expensive? >> Yes, >> we haven't costed everything out yet. We were waiting to get past this meeting, but yes, this will be the least expensive cuz it does minimally change the curbing and the other. It doesn't change the wall, which is a big expense, some of those items. >> I'm thinking about where kids are going now. My son was a skater for a few years. We would go to St. Louis Park off of Maka Boulevard and we would go to Eden Prairie by the high school. >> Yeah. >> Are the Do you happen to know the sizes of those two? Those are the two closest we found. >> You know, we did have that in the feasibility studies. the feasibility. I don't know how to compare if this is significantly smaller than our competition, if you will. >> Good reference. >> I would wager that Eden Prairies is probably around 10 to 12,000. Just on my experience, >> it can be a follow-up. It's just be conscious knowing where the kids are going today and that this is going to be >> a desirable place to go instead. >> Yeah. >> Size is kind of important to these kids. >> Feature >> so that they can get a lot of flows. Yep. Um, Eden Prairie's Park is more street style. It It has less of that sort of modern, flowable transition style skating. So, that would be an advantage potentially to attract the best skaters in the region. >> Yeah. And I find that any new skate park that's like up to the the modern standard gets a lot of activity. Like all the ones in my area that I go to, like the um the one at the Ford Parkway site, I think it's called Gateway is just always packed. >> Painter Park is really fun in uptown Minneapolis. It's Elliot Park, too. Like it's just you want to go on like a weekday morning or something. It's just there's so many people out there for the new skate parks. So confirming Eden Prairie does have 11,000 square feet. Skate Plaza. The St. Louis Park one is only 5,300 square ft. Richfield has a 4,000footer. >> The new one in Elliot, the Elliot neighborhood is 13,000 square ft. Shore View's got a 7700 and the Gateway Path is 1300, but that's a little more linear. So >> what since we're talking alternatives, what's the status of the thing under 169 on Acceler Boulevard? >> It's gone. >> Oh, it's gone. >> The underpass. Yeah. >> Okay. >> That was a joint agreement with Third Lair and St. Louis Park and >> they had closed it for some reason. >> Or is that popular? >> I would imagine it was popular. It was all wooden ramps which are harder to maintain in our weather versus concrete ones. And I think it it ex, you know, it it went for a decade plus and was a popular destination. They needed to make the decision. Do we rebuild wood ramps in this location? And >> I'd be speaking for Hopkins, but I understand that it didn't make sense for them financially involved. >> And I believe that they had you have to you had to pay to skate there. >> Yep. It was five bucks or something. >> Yep. In their partnership with Third Layer. So I'll say Third Layer. They're the the biggest west west metro skateboard facility. >> Okay. Thank you. So on the um like where the park or I mean the picnic structure is or anywhere on the lower part of that transition uh segment would a uh a skater who's who's got uh some you know who's got like a wheelchair or some some modification be able to get into this that part of the park cuz I would guess that there'd be more transition skating being done >> by that that type of skater than street just in terms of like a safety ability. >> Yeah, that's a that's a good comment. I think like if we took this one further, we could maybe connect it here where you could not have to go into that area and through the tunnel to get over to this area cuz this area might potentially be a little bit easier with street being more flat ground features and less like undulating concrete. So yeah, I think potent we would address those things, you know, in the next round. Yeah, because I know uh in fact one of our other park members who's not able to make it tonight has described uh acquaintances or family members I don't recall who were really into skating despite having like you know reduced use of their legs and um and so if we have basically some sort of way in and out of this perhaps it might be one seg ment one section because if the tunnel again if it's a flat flat tunnel then that skater could go to either side and along with that uh can adding a adding a third ADA stall that's down below because the current two ADA stalls are up high by the ball fields >> um if I if I recall Okay. >> Uh there's there are at least two um ADA stalls on along Minnotonka Boulevard at the moment right now. >> There's one right by an Excel shoe there and there's one on >> Excel shoe I mean. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Which one is ADA? >> See the blue ADAs? >> Oh, got it. >> Yeah. And I I didn't put these where they are today. I don't think >> No, no, no. Where they are today is up top >> by the baseball field. >> There's ADA stalls on the lower part, >> but there is there too. Okay. So there's >> all right. So that so so that should be I guess with this uh option A it they would stay. So that would be good. But I so I guess then that's taken care of. It would just be the um entry into the park maybe on the transitions. I don't know. You know I defer to uh to the skate experts. Um, but at least one uh entry exit space that would be ADA uh accessible would be awesome. >> Yep. Great comment. >> And if is it I know that it looks cool to have a 45 degree angle into the transition area. Is it possible to reconfigure that so we don't lose the big tree? >> Oh, right here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I did think about that and in this next option that was kind of a driver of this corner. >> Great segue. >> Okay. >> It's a honeyloust on the corner there. It's nice tree. >> Oh. Oh, now you're not into it anymore. >> Not so much. >> Well, it is a a mature tree that >> is healthy. So, just thinking about tree preservation, this option does preserve all the trees where they are now. There were, sorry, Jake, a handful of ash that were removed last fall that were suffering. So, >> and I guess the big picture on this one is it deprioritizes the parking and prioritizes the skate park space. So, this one is just looking at adding bays down on this lower level where the drive aisle is really wide and just maxing that out with parking stalls before the slope going up here. So, that's why we don't have them along this segment, but we would have to look more technically at the the slopes there for how much we could get in. Um, and then uses this whole footprint for skate park space. So, this one is, you know, a more straightforward design where it's open. You've got a lot of opportunities um to develop the skate park and what goes in there. There's less constraints. Um >> so, we're converting some of the parking stalls into turf. >> Yes. >> Boulevard, expanded boulevard. >> Yeah. I don't think it would all be turf. I think we would probably I mean this is a another level of refinement but green space planting. Yes. >> It would have you'd have to rip up the pavement and >> Yes. Yes. >> Amend the soil >> naturalized planting. I think that's a good way to note it. >> Yeah, that's good. Thank you. >> And how many parking spaces? >> Yeah. So this one is 12 stalls here with one ADA space um considered. Is there a reason why you didn't add more stalls to the right of the new stalls above and below? >> Yeah, that's where >> is that a gradient problem? >> Yeah, just with the slope and I think you can do maybe 10% grade in a parking lot, but it gets to be a little uncomfortable and car doors are opening and flying at the car next to you. So, I think we would have we would look at that in more detail. We have city rules around the size of the straight parking stalls and their cross slopes and all that stuff. >> Hard to get the passenger side open. >> The other just comment on this one is um maybe it's premature to comment like this, but since we're all commenting um >> we can't help it. Th this this is kind of nice in a different respect too which is it creates a visual of a park from street level from with the gold nugget or lun or just walking down excelsure you're not looking across at at stalls you're looking across to trees and greenery and >> it's even if you don't use the skate park it's it creates a more visual visually appealing corner. Yeah, >> that was some of the notes that I had to Damon Farber was I would love to see an option where we don't have parking right on the street that >> you know visually when you're driving by in the winter it looks softer and more parklike even when the skating's not happening >> and and I've al I've also always been a little concerned if you get more kids on that corner given the traffic on Excelsia Boulevard it's you know it's busy it's a busy intersection there and and this this creates a more of a buffer between you know jumping out of your car and running up, you know, the skate park. But just a thought. >> Yeah. >> Well, you mentioned Golden Nugget and Luns, and as soon as I saw this, I was thinking that's where people are going to park. >> Golden Nugget and Luns because there's not enough parking. >> Well, that that happens. >> There's not going to be enough parking during baseball. There probably isn't. There probably already people parking at Gold Nugget and Luns. >> But then if we've got a fancy fancy new skate park that's >> Yeah. on the larger side. >> Uh so, >> uh that's that's what I thought of. And then >> um I do get I do totally understand this idea of it looks like a park versus it doesn't. But it's also a concrete park. It's a concrete space. So, um it it doesn't have the same aesthetic to me as a kind of a green spaced uh park. Um and and the um so the parking uh the parking down there both because of what might occur at other businesses terms of overflow plus um the the fact that really I think you're probably going to see just a whole bunch of concrete in this skate park from from the road. >> Yeah, great great comments. I think that's definitely what we are going for with the buffering and kind of containing the skate park um in this sort of green envelope that reads as a park. I will note that the new skate parks can look pretty cool. They're kind of sculptural, I would say, like a lot of the new ones. It's It's not like what you see today or what you even think of as a skatepark initially. Um, they can be very attractive. So, it is a lot of concrete for sure, but it's also kind of like, ooh, like what is that? Like brings you in and, you know, there's people running around having fun. Um, and at some point in this process, we would produce renderings to sort of showcase what we'd be getting at once we get a general sense of what direction we're going in. >> Can you expand what the picnic nodes mean? Is that just a picnic table? >> Yeah. So, with this one, we have this pathway going around the the whole perimeter of the park and that a new stair being shown here to just connect um all these spaces. And then where we have the blue in the picnic nodes, those are just like spots where you would sit or gather. So not it wouldn't necessarily be a picnic table. Maybe there benches or some sort of way that people could could sit. And the idea here too being that >> not just people using the skate park could hang out. You know, it's kind of like a general park space where you could come and sit like watch people skate and then go on up to your baseball game. Um, so yeah, >> it's smart to have shady areas because it gets really hot >> in the summer. Yes, >> kids need a place to >> and >> get some shade. >> Agreed. Yes. And I think this is an opportunity for me to again reiterate that skateboard parks aren't necessarily only about skateboarding. They sort of represent a third space for young adults and teens. that they may not be skaters themselves, but they know that there's youthful activity happening in the area and don't want to go, you know, home or back to school. So, they'll hang out here. So, we want to accommodate that sort of loose hangout space on a visible corner like this where there's a vibrancy occurring. >> Good time to mention that in Eden Prairie when I go, there's just as many people on bikes and scooters as there are skateboards. So we should be careful just calling it a skateboard because that's too limiting. >> Wheeled sports is generally a a commonly used fra phrase this day. But yeah, you'll see bikes, you'll see scooters certainly. >> Yeah, rollerbladers, roller skaters. >> Yeah, sure. >> I think it's great to tap into that market where they really need to be outdoors and having unstructured play. >> Exactly. Yes. So, we have one more option. Oh, go ahead, Jake. >> Yeah, sure. I was And then just for reference, this one does get close to that 20,000 square ft mark that we are kind of starting with as a goal. >> Yep. >> Um and then the parking it's uh 12 over here. Is there any concept of on option B to have some sort of islands with greenery >> in the middle >> in the middle? I I don't know if you can have anything tall enough to be shady, but >> we would have to be thoughtful about trampling and impacts. So, shade and leaves down on a skate park aren't necessarily desirable. I get that >> breaking up a big impervious surface. There is some storm water stuff we could do in this area um to promote infiltration, but I hear what you're saying. It it would get abused by foot traffic and skaters. >> Okay. I was thinking of like raised beds um >> with decorative railings with a tree potentially. There's options we could think that through, but it's it's a bit >> I hadn't thought about the dead leaves. >> Yeah, le leaves are not a good thing. Yeah, I like skiing bad. Okay, sorry. I was >> That's a great comment. And like as a landscape architect and a skateboarder, I want to do that. I want to like integrate more trees and stuff, but then you go to like the parks and you see the landscaping just destroyed right next to it. Like, so it it's really a delicate balance. And I think our skatepark designer would be interested in Yeah. >> You know, looking at that. >> Yeah. Options like that to break the space up. Yeah. Well, then what about so would the naturalized planting in be around the perimeter? Would that kid get >> there's sidewalk to buffer that? >> I see. >> You'll see for instance at the Eden Prairie Skate Park just cuz I know that one cuz I've skated there. There is landscaping like right there's like raised beds that have ramps up to them >> and the skaters just walk around on the raised beds. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So this hopefully like the concept here would be that this is more of a public sidewalk. It feels slightly different than the actual skate park space. So the skaters aren't necessarily using this space as much and they're more within the skate park area. So we'd have less of a less of the spillover. And if this is going to be super attractive and it's going to be a third place, is there enough seating area for it to be a third place? >> We'd have to think that through a little more critically. This is sort of our first iteration at this point. So, we'd have to think that through. What's the appropriate amount? >> I just don't know what percentage of people are hanging instead of skating. >> Yeah, it's a good question. >> I'd be hanging. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. >> But I'm not sure you're the target audience. >> No, I'm really not. >> But I can say that I I did manage French Park in the early 90s. And one of my um more frustrating parts, it was more the maintenance was a lot of waxing on our railings, on our flower beds. Um and I think more than once is, hey, I'm not sure if you know this, but you can't skate because it was it was a big cement structure around the visitors center. So, I'm I'm familiar with um the need and the desire for that age group for this event or this activity. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Since you're talking about that, can you elaborate the fixed plaza fixed seating? Is that just like a like like benches or what is that? Yeah, I think this may be a little too detailed with the fixed seating comment that I put here, but this is more just something that's a little bit different than the picnic nodes where this is trying to get at that like public plaza idea like maybe there's pavers and like nice benches along the perimeter of it. >> Stadium, >> which having this nice view like out to the skate park >> is true. Forget the stadium. I think too on the the balance between seating and how much we have, we would be able to look at some other skatep parks in the area and precedents for how much they provide and if if we feel like they have enough if we go and check it out. So that's a good comment. >> Stadium seating would be great. But again, if you look at French Visitor Center, it has stadium seating and you will see wax on every corner >> of that staircase. >> Yeah. All areas around skate parks. Yeah. Definitely want to be careful about the maintenance and uh the design of the seating. You know, you can have seating where it's not easily skatable. you know, like with vertical things like slats next to each other and you can't >> get up and grind on things like that. So, we'll definitely get into that. >> We've had to deal with that a bit at Ridgedale Commons. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> And then there's the how much drama is there going to be because we now have, as Caleb already said, there's less parking. >> We got to deal with that as we get through all three. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, the first one is the same amount of >> and the second one is minus 21. >> Yeah. >> And then our goal with this third one is to kind of strike that balance in between. So, we have 21 stalls in this one. So, we're still using that area here to get six. And then we have this parking lot here with 8 and 7 and 28A stalls as part of that. So you don't have a flow through which can be >> a bit challenging sometimes like deadend parking lots aren't always preferred but within this sort of setup that we have here um it seemed like a good thing to explore. And with this option too, so we titled this one the park amenity focus. So it's not looking at just skate park space, but what else can we start to bring into the design? So we have this flexible green space here. So this would just be like an open lawn um with some barbecues. We have the picnic shelter here with some seating where it would just be kind of a flexible park space um where you could throw the Frisbee around or just um you know just enjoy um just sort of a more simple park area. And then we also have the corner being more opened up to the intersection as sort of like plaza moment. um an opportunity for public art um at that corner as well and potentially some seating. So, it's opening up the corner to this public space um that leads you in through to this skate park area and this sort of zone here is showing sort of a blend between park space and skate park space. So, you've got um this park area and then the skate park and potentially in between there's this like in between where both skateboarders will be hanging out but also people just using the the general park area. And with this option too, um we looked at the circulation in a different way. So here between what's there now, we are bringing this sidewalk all the way up to the parking lot. So this is how it looks now where it kind of bumps out. We have the trees and the benches here, but it's making all of this walkway aligned and bringing you up to the corner. To do that, you would need to um kind of redo this whole zone. So you wouldn't preserve the existing wall in this scenario. >> Where where is the wall? uh uh against the skate park or against the parking. >> So, we have it against the skate park here. >> Okay. >> So, then you you'd have the walkway right up against the parking and then these little areas where you could sit and hang out and then have this view looking down. >> So, it's kind of what's happening now with these benches and this wall and railing, but kind of trying to improve upon that and make the the spectator experience really cool. and doing that same thing here where we kind of have even more of like a viewing area and it's really deliberately connected up to the rest of the park. So, this is kind of the main connection >> um into the rest of the park and currently you've you've kind of got a zigzag around. >> So, it's it's connecting all the dots here going a little bit further into the green space that we have now. So, this is kind of mounded with trees up against this uh drive aisle and so that it kind of maximizes the space that way and has that new stair as well um connecting through. So, third option a little bit more involved with redoing the wall and how everything works along this part of the park. um providing that balance between the parking and thinking about integrating more um park features which is a idea we want reaction to. >> Mhm. Good way to put it. Okay. I'll walk you through just sort of some next steps. So, community outreach will continue. Um this went out in the park. It'll park packet. It'll go up on Minnotonka Matters to get some feedback from the community. Um, we are planning some sort of summer skate event, late spring, early summer skate event, like a demonstration, a little sort of um, hype building for a potential skate park in the future if that seems relevant. Um, so we'd be working with Third Layer. They're interested and they do sort of demos, little competitions and some prizes and and general sort of hype building and we'd have um, some options on display if that makes sense. Um we are talking about collaboration with local businesses. There's interest from local business to support this effort. So we're talking to them and the expectation at this point is full master plan late summer, early fall. So the first draft of the entire park and the feedback we received from you tonight. Um and then pushing into uh you know a final version later in the year sort of think things through. So, for now, questions. Um, elements you support in the park or concerns and considerations. I know we had a bit of a conversation, so we we did get some of that from you all. Um, but this would be an opportunity to pepper us with more questions or talk it through a little bit more. >> Thank you. >> One of the big variables was parking. I could tell. >> Certainly. >> My perception is that parking is an issue today, especially on weekends. Is that a good >> week nights to weekend? So, at the same time, >> y >> did you consider an option where parking goes up because we're adding a big amenity and not taking away? >> We would really be shrinking our footage for a skate park to accommodate that. So, we would need to, for instance, add parking over here or something, add more stalls, and we'd really be minimizing the the skate park finished square foot in that scenario. I was thinking of that last one, that last option. >> You carry the road instead of the flex lawn, you carry that road further with more parking area. >> Yeah. >> So, thinking about like when the skate parks used, the ball when the ball fields are used. I've been in communication with the Glen Lakes and the Gals folks um to try to get a better sense of when their busiest times are. And I think over time a new park would attract traffic. Certainly we'd get more cars in the in the area, but over time what I expect would happen is skaters would get a sense of when the games are going to be and avoid the park when they know it's going to be filled over time would be the >> or heaven forbid walk to the park >> or >> or bike >> or bike to the park. Yes. I mean, one of the advantageous features of this location is that it is on the to be constructed, newly built XLC trail out towards the high school and out east in Hopkins. So, we do have connectivity on our trail network. >> Did I hear you say earlier that um skateboard users were more in the morning when you were referencing? >> There there are often skaters, especially on the weekend and yes, during the height of the ball season. The ball season does have key times early around this time of the year and then again in the fall, but sort of in the the open part of the summer, I I think there's less games. >> Yeah. >> But like the skaters, I think I heard the uh landscape architect, I apologize your name. I thought I heard you say something about early morning if you went out to >> It's pretty It's pretty varied. I would say like to each their own and like your your age and like you know if you have summers off like completely different. So >> yeah, it seems like it's the ball field usage timing that is just kind of >> But I mean I'm looking cuz I live near Willow um Will Willow Park and um it's evenings. I mean I walk there during lunchtime and it's >> that's where the ball >> it's it's enough but at in the evening they fill into the public works area and so there's never enough parking. >> Yeah. Mhm. It's a balance. What's the right amount of parking? How much during the year are we okay with X amount of stalls sitting empty? >> You know, for the peak times, like, do you build your parking lot for Black Sunday at the mall? >> That's kind of what I'm getting at, too. So, uh, at one point when we were early and I know we went with the city council to this space, um, there was discussions about this groomer and that purchase and I think during that meeting there was potentially some interest in the occupier of that building or the owner um selling. So, I'd like an update on that. And then the second thing on the third on the third uh option um I've I I'm pretty I'm quite familiar with this this space and and also the playground. And what I what I notice what every time I've been there is Excelsier is busy. There's a lot of road traffic. >> Mhm. >> And I'm concerned that this corner green space will not be very desirable for lots of people because it'll be you'll constantly be seeing and hearing traffic. There's a fire station nearby, so there's frequent uh siren activity. Um, so it's nice to think about having that space. I just don't know that it's going to be very desirable because it feels like a busy road. And even the playground as it currently sits, there is green space separating it from the road. And that's in part because of safety >> and the grade elevation, >> but uh it still feels set back 50 ft >> and higher up like that is a busy road right there. So to have like on on street level green space, I don't even know if people would throw a frisbee because you'd be like, "Well, if you throw it kind of poorly, it's going to be in the middle of that busy excelsier." >> Well, think about Yes, absolutely. Hear that thought. Think about the park just west of here. Um on the corner, Kitty Corner from Unmapped. We have a park there. I'm blanking on it. >> Kinsel. No, not >> Kinsel. Kind of like >> station mean the walkway has its fountain. >> Yep. A fountain in the center and and it's relatively close close to the street and it's not quite as busy of a cross street as Woodhill is, but there is traffic on Excelsier and there is a a metered light there which actually creates more noise starting and stopping of >> across from a gas station. >> It's a concern for sure, but the location also is accessible. It's centrally located. you can get there, you see it, you're reminded. So, there's some advantages there. But I certainly hear your concern. It's a busy corner, but that's part of the advantage. >> And then to the groomer. >> Oh, yes. Uh, we've been in communication with that property owner. Um, I don't have an update at this point. He was interested in talking to us. That's all I can say at this point. >> Yeah. And I to me without that information or without a sense of whether even if they're interested the city can buy it. Uh it this kind of seems premature because you can talk about a completely different idea and plan for for that entire segment. If you own that that segment then you've got a completely different plan. You've got a skate park that could be 20,000 ft easy. you don't lose any parking and it connects up or at some way is integrated into the playground that's there that will get updated. >> So I think that's a critical piece of information uh before proceeding and almost all of this is wasted if you actually have that space. >> But I I guess I I could find a happy medium. I agree with you and and that was one of the thoughts that I had too was if we were to acquire that groomer's property that it could be parking and that kind of leans towards where my preferred option would be um to address the parking but I recall that the negotiations we were pretty far apart on value if I'm not mistaken and obviously I do acquisitions for a living so I know when you're that far apart a lot of times it's a stalemate for a while but Um, I think also with the LCCAR grant is probably only good for 2 to 3 years and so we can't unfortunately postpone it until we know if we can acquire that one. But I I do like the idea that we're in the master planning phase that we could identify that as a potential future parking if we were to acquire it at a reasonable price or current market value. Sorry. And it being a private property, it's hard for me to speculate and say too much in the setting of, oh, what the odds of us acquiring that are. I need to be respectful of that private land owner within our park. So, we we have been communicating with him, >> but it it really would could change the how you do things. But to Jennifer's point, if you look at that picture right there, the last third of that lot is is level parking now and it's a natural extension to the ball field parking with, you know, no change. And now you could turn into a into part of the playground, but then you have a parking issue. So, I mean, I think a a primary use, you know, could easily be to extend the parking there, and that would that could offset some of the issues for option B or and certainly for C, because see, you don't really lose much. Um, but I I agree with you on the I have mixed feelings on the corner, Caleb, because I never thought somebody throwing a Frisbee. They definitely wouldn't want to throw a Frisbee there. But but on the other other side, you've got um >> Pakisack. >> You've got seniors that are right down the street, right across the street. And if it becomes a sort of desirable place to sit around and and and have shade and grass and you know, I know they have that by their their own facility, but not much because the building takes up most of their footprint. Um just you know there's a there's a couple good I think there's a couple good options here. >> Yeah. And and the one you know that that deadend parking I mean that's also at Big Willow um parking and um I try to get in there and I watch other people try to get in there and um Yeah. And I'm not a fan of that dead end >> dead end parking. >> No. >> Yeah. I know. >> You mean because it fills up or because it's hard to get in and out? >> Hard to get in and out. >> Hard to get in and out. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you've got people backing up and >> especially if it's like during ball games when everyone's trying to get in. >> You got children. >> Yeah. Well, up here, you have kids carrying their bags and a lot of foot traffic all they're slightly late to their game and they're hustling across it, it gets wild up here. So, to have another condition similar to that. >> Um, other other questions or comments, thoughts, >> I guess. Yeah, sorry. Uh, >> I don't know. I don't know how this would be done, but um, for the for the adjacent strip malls, um, I would say, you know, Lun seems to be like the major tenant in on on on that side. And then I don't know what the major maybe it's golden nugget. I don't know. But have you guys gotten any input from them about about this or like what they experience at current loads? Um, you know, I'd hate to have a situation where we've eliminated parking and then all of a sudden the the property owner of the of the mall of these um strip malls puts up signs like we see, right? Luns customer only. the the and and tow and and and then the other piece is of course the major tenant of this area, Gal and Glen Lake. >> Y >> uh I would be shocked if they said, "Yeah, yeah, get rid of 20 spots. We we're totally down with that, right?" And that's the last thing we want to do is as a city council or park board like, you know, make an enemy that way. >> Absolutely. Yes. And I I've, you know, met with them and their their leadership group and have been talking to them quite a bit and made them aware in advance of this presentation that we were going to get feedback tonight. So, keeping that conversation open and listening to the concerns all along the way. We certainly don't want to impact a legacy or an organization like that too greatly, but I also think we have an opportunity to bring more folks into the area to, you know, go get their monster drink from Luns after a skate session. Um, so I think there's some advantage for local businesses there, too. Um, there's been other instances throughout the city where we have shared use parking if there's overflow. Um I know of some um religious sites in the city that have shared use with local other big parking lots that during their services there's shared use. Um so there's potential opportunity for shared use parking at local sites. >> The the West Suburban Society thing is any discussions there? >> We have not spoken with them yet but they are neighbors. So that's this parcel right here. Um, so we could enter into conversations with them >> because >> because being a grandparent of ball players, I've never seen that lot with more than two cars in it during ball games. Um, and probably vice versa. So, I would I I would think, you know, if they're reasonable, it might be it certainly would be attractive. And it's a bit confusing when you pull in to understand quite where you're supposed to park if you're there for a softball game. >> Yeah, >> good idea. I I I'll go on the record. I really like number two. I think we got an LC or uh B, I should say. We got an LCCMR grant. I think we have an opportunity to have a showcase facility that's over 20,000 that I heard was to pull um regional. I think when I got on the park board, my main focus was attracting and giving opportunities for that young adults since a lot of our programming is for younger. >> Um I think the age group that really needs to get out and do unstructured play is that young adult so they can have interaction and a safe space um to do that. So, I'm I'm going I like I like be because I I like your idea of looking at shared spaces with the vendor or the building next door. >> Um I like hearing that you're in negotiations with the other land owner adjacent to the property. >> Um and so since we're in the master planning, that takes a little while, but it's a really good place to identify even though it's not currently public. um is other solutions for the parking, but because we have this opportunity, it might be painful at first if we can't get arrangements. But I guess I'm not a big fan of doing parking to take the max capacity. Um you look at and yep, there's enough parking for Thanksgiving, day after Thanksgiving, that's great, >> but most of the time it's not. So that's that's just where I am. Uh, it's funny because I kind of came in with the parking focus in the beginning, but as I kind of let this stuff digest, that's kind of where I'm at. >> Out of curiosity, um, between B and C, is there significant difference difference in potential costs? I know you aren't doing detail, but I mean, general, >> I think they seem fairly similar. >> All right. I was just curious >> how much is would our $400,000 with the LCCMR cover in those two options? It would certainly cover more in B than it would in C. >> For instance, they wouldn't pay for um flex lawn or other park plaza type features. That would be city budget. >> Yeah. >> And you're removing the the retain or the retaining wall in >> Oh, in C, not not B. >> Not B. Yeah. Yeah. So, we'd need to understand if we could use the grant dollars to move a retaining wall to make more >> and the money the money separate budget the money to demolish the activity center is just to take that down and create a flat space. >> Correct. >> Yeah, that's my thought. Mhm. >> So if I in case anybody cares, I I'm would be okay with C or B or either any of them actually. But $400,000 of the grant isn't going to be enough to do any of them in total. >> In total. No. >> Okay. But isn't that money just to go to the skate park? >> That's just for the skate features. Um, but we do have a CIP page. We're going to talk about CIP in a minute. >> Yeah, but I Okay. So, >> all right. I'll wait till we get there. Sorry. >> Do Do you Do you think the 400 would cover just the skate park part? No. >> Just the features? >> No. >> No. >> No. Okay. By how much? Half. >> Half or less than half. >> Okay. >> 40%. >> What's um hopefully you're not jumping ahead too far here. >> What's the next step here? In other words, are you going to come back with a full plan with two options or just pick one of these options or what are you thinking you're doing? >> I'm I'm going to listen back to the recording of this meeting and try to synthesize an option. >> An option. Okay. >> Yes. With what I'm hearing tonight and the rest of the park. So, other considerations. sure >> about mitigating storage concerns and other improvements around the softball field, the rest of the park. >> Okay. >> But this being the toughest nut to crack, we wanted to get at this first. >> So, we should be expecting to see a plan for one option in the fall, which we can make comments and wiggle with, but >> Correct. >> Okay. Other questions or comments? Kayla, do you have a question? Uh so um late summer early fall I am wondering if we could have a brief update uh at the June meeting or I don't I don't think we have a July meeting. >> No. >> So if we don't if we don't see the the grand plan sure in August >> could be August uh regarding the business purchase. Sure. >> Because again uh then we we we might be taking a couple steps carefully back in the in the planning but with with a lot of uh new cool potential. So, it would be good >> to then to then slow a month or two down, >> but uh I really would like to know whether that's a reasonable option in the short term before we have to make a full master plan um recommendation uh just because it could be it could be so impactful. >> Absolutely. understand. Yes. Would it be fair to say um that if that purchase were if a purchase were to go through that that our part as a park board uh obviously I can't say this myself I don't have word that's putting out but if that purchase were to go through that a primary first use of that space would be to supplement parking versus expand park if you know what I mean. Yes, >> because that would help your if things are evolving while we're not meeting, you know, you could be thinking, well, I'm not looking to expand the 25,000 square feet and make the playground bigger. I'm looking to help deal with parking. >> I think it would open a lot of options. I'll put it that way. >> I think because >> I know it's very flat up here. This intersection where you have to walk around this >> Yep. terrible >> native grape covered chain link fence right here. Um there's a lot of opportunity to improve that area and it's already leveled and it >> Yeah. >> Has he ever has we ever approached the groomer about being able to park in his lot in the evenings? >> Shared use. We haven't discussed that specifically with him. >> The other thing about the groomer spot is that the front the front lawn of that building is a lot lower >> than the rest of it. >> It's more at street level than up. So there's maybe an opportunity to have some >> plantings and another third space. Third >> Yeah, there's a pretty steep driveway that leaves Excelsier that's not squared up with this intersection. Um, so there's opportunity to deal with that slope, too. >> Would just be more expensive. >> Yep, it would. >> But it would be cool. there be more options. >> Um, and are we going to talk about the the survey results? >> I I'll have pie charts and all feedback on overall because a lot of that was related to the overall park, what folks want to see out of the ball fields, and I didn't address that with these concepts tonight. >> No, but the I was a little surprised that there were only 18 responses to the skate park and that a couple of them said we don't need a skate park. >> Yep. >> So, Um, that doesn't fill me with the idea that there's an outpouring of residents clamoring for a skate park. Yep. >> And I I'm assuming that's wrong, but it's that's the impression you get given the >> I I would say the audience for a skate park survey like that isn't necessarily dialed into Minnotonka matters. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That I Yes, I get. at some promotional events. We understand from local skateboard companies that a lot of skaters that use their facilities, Third Layer specifically in Golden Valley, they've had thousands of skaters from Minnetonka over the decades at this point. >> We know that Eden Prairie gets quite a lot of use. So, it's a build that they will come, but they don't really care until then. >> Okay. But we know from the both the presentations what four years ago from Minnetonka Middle School East or whatever it is. >> Yeah. And all those kids club >> and Yeah. They're in college. Uh >> and as well as the postplan input where the skate park had a lot of broad interest. >> Correct. >> So besides I know what you mean about the 18 response. Um, and I assume most of the 45 and 70 year old respondents were responding as grandparents or parents and not skaters, but I could be wrong. >> There's some skaters over there. >> Well, I know, but if you read them close, I think they were parents. It's fine for kids, >> but it's tough for us to get the 17-year-old kid to fill out our survey these days. >> And that and that part. Oh, that one more I guess one more question. So, what we're going to be reviewing is a plan with a footprint. >> Correct. >> And then the actual skate park itself is a whole different thing that's done by professionals. >> Correct. So, the LCC Almar grant requires a design build process. So, we would hire a qualified um skateboard construction company. We would have preceded images. These are the sort of features that we look at. But it is a really custom job. It ends up being a custom process. >> Well, it's a great little corner and I think for people I remember the tour with the council. >> Yep. >> And I remember for a lot of people hadn't been there and you're standing in the upper parking lot, you can barely see the first field because it's all level. And then when we finally walked over to the pavil or the overlook >> is when people started to go, "Wow." And so getting rid of that little corner of that fence would be great because that's what hides it now. So it's a great great location. >> It's really spectacular. The cover of our Minnotonka Matters page is this beautiful picture from the top here looking down. So there's not a lot that we need to do in there. >> And Darren's new batting cages are exceptionally wellbuilt. >> These ones down here. Yeah. Uh the this I assume this whole park thing would have some opportunity maybe for some signage that would help people know how to get to wherever they're supposed to park. And >> of course >> all that stuff >> with all our master planning signage and wayfinding is is baked in. So the con mostly the northeast part of the park wouldn't change appreciably. >> We're not seeing a lot of need. We certainly haven't heard feedback. We know that this building up here is aged a bit. Um so we'll have to look closer at that. And then >> the condition of this this is actually wetland in this, you know, sunken hole in here. But there are opportunities to clear the buckthornne and potentially do some restoration in there. There is drainage that comes out of this parking lot. Um this is our um pump station >> pump station. >> Um so there there are more opportunities there that we'll highlight in the master plan. >> Okay, good. without the without the grooming uh purchase potential. Uh would the playground just be a part of the typ part of our uh budgeted? I know we're delay we're delaying it because we're we're doing new things, but otherwise is it is that how it's currently budgeted? >> Yes, it's budgeted with the park investment fund. >> Yeah. All right. Did you have everything you need from us for tonight? >> This was great. Okay. >> This is what I was hoping for. >> Great. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks. >> Thanks, Jake. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Chair and Graham, did you want to take any comment from >> Oh, yeah. Is there anybody here to comment on the Do you want to >> Sure. Come on. You have to come You have to come up here and use a microphone over here. >> Yeah. And just give us your name and your address. Or may Do we still do that? Yeah. Name and address. Yeah, thank you so much. Um, I'm actually not from Minnetonka. I work in Minnetonka. I, um, I'm from, uh, 1324 Balders Avenue in Golden Valley. Um, both my daughters are skateboarders. My name is Brian Beck and that's Harper Beck and McKenna. Um, they were really excited. Uh, McKenna, uh, her first, uh, skateboarding kind of skate park was Glen Lake Park. um mostly because it is a smaller it's not very busy because uh most skateboarders uh see it as a smaller park that kind of they graduate beyond really quickly. Um, but I think the idea of a lot of parks in the Twin Cities area have been renovated into nicer concrete parks. And what what you see almost always is they draw a lot more people because they're safer because a lot of times asphalt parks can be a little bit more dangerous cuz the the ramps sink into them and causing the ramp essentially to go into the ground and create a a little like launch ramp that you shoot directly into the ground. It's no fun. Um, and so I think the opportunity to revamp the Glen Lake Park is really exciting and I think we want to make sure that we understand, you know, where it's going. And I think both my daughters are excited to have more transition skating. Uh, there's a lot of street skating parks in the area, but the idea to have another transition skating area is, I think, really cool. So, I just want to thank you for um moving this forward, for getting a grant, and thinking about the skateboarders in the area and how you can support us. So, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for your comments and we hope to have a skate park for your daughters to enjoy before they go to college. Thank you very much. Okay, with that uh go to 7B. >> Uh yes, Chair and Graham. So I just before I'm pass this over to Kelly, this is um your first look at the capital improvement plan for the city. This is one part of our budget of the overall budget um that the council will be reviewing in June. I know Kelly will talk a little bit about this, but I just wanted to make sure that you are familiar with the fact that this is a draft. So, this is really like you're in the sausage making. Um you know, things are likely changing as we speak in terms of how what the city leadership is doing and our finance u people are doing. But this is the first crack at it and then you will see it in June again. So right now we're just looking for kind of high level comments um or even specific comments if you have them and then you'll also see the draft again in June before it goes to the council. So I'll pass it over to Kelly. >> Thanks Leslie. She really covered that intro and I think different from previous years. You know we we would just come in June and it was kind of that one crack at it and here you go and I think we got some some good comments last year and so I thought it would be appropriate to bring it twice here this year. So again, tonight we're just trying to get feedback. Uh we'll bring it back to June and then eventually it goes to the city council uh at their study session in mid June. So um so what is the CIP? Uh CIP again, that's our capital improvement plan. It's a 5-year plan that the city uh has. Uh and really it it it provides and and maintains our public facilities balanced against our resources. So it's it's all these kind of wants and needs that we have, not only staff, but what the community members think. uh we look at plans, we look at our post plan, we look at our natural resource master plan and and try to figure out what are our needs in the city and you know then we have to have pay for it so balance it against the resources that we have. Um so the park board then looks at the park and trail related items. So I think there's 19 or 20 different pages specific to parks and trails that you review um and then eventually pass on to the city council. Um you know as as far as how we rank those there is a priority ranking list. The city council identifies three different um priority ranking needs uh per project. Uh and I put those up here. Number one is uh if it's necessary for public health and safety or if it meets a legal mandate. Number two to maintain existing systems or make existing systems more efficient. And then three is expanding uh systems or new services. So you know most of ours kind of fall in that two to three. Every once in a while we'll get some ones, but um we're just a we're a small piece of the bigger CIP. Um and actually you can go to the next slide. Um this shows as of right now where we're at with the draft CIP, the parks, trails, and open space are 8.4% of the total CIP. Right? So that's of a 5-year plan. Um that's the percentage we are currently of the CIP. And then the CIP is uh one of the three items that fall into the total city budget. So the city budget then go back one um comprises of again the capital improvement plan or operating budget and then any debt services that we have. Typically historically the CIP has been about 25 or so percent of the total budget. So the biggest percent of the budget is our operating budget. As a city we have usually very little debt. Anywhere from 5 to 10% is kind of the average, but our CIP is about 25%. So again, you're 8 to 10% of the total CIP of which then that is 25 or so% of the total budget. So that's kind of how it fits into the the total city budget. You can move to the next. So this is you'll see the draft pages. I think you saw those and probably have those. Um, of course that's pretty small. I thought that was going to be bigger. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Easy to read. It's like >> Yeah. Gosh. Yeah, I thought it was going to be easier to break it up and blow it up, but the top left really, so this is the three pieces of the each page. So the top left really just explains the project, says who's in charge of it. It gives that priority that one, two, or three. I think it might even give a useful life. So say maybe it's a playground, we put in a useful life. The middle section to the right, um, which you definitely can't read because I can't even see that. Uh, it says description and justification. So it describes the project and then gives some type of justification as to why we need to improve it. Maybe it's a new program and we've received feedback on things and so that's just justifies um why we're putting it into the CIP. And then the bottom section uh which it is a little bit easier to read um talks about the expenditures and then the funding source. So the expenditure could be construction, could be improvement, uh a number of different options there and then the funding source. You know, many of ours are the park and trail improvement fund, but we do have there's probably 10 to 15 different funding sources that we can select. Um, one example would be um the Shady Oak Beach page. Uh, the funding sources both city of Hopkins and City of Minnetonka because we've got a joint agreement. So, uh, we put grant funding in there. So, the um the skate park page has, you know, one source for city funding and then we've got grant funding. We can put state funding in there. So, um, that just shows then where those dollars are coming from throughout the 5-year process. If you can see, there is a prior and a future. If there were any prior dollars that were allocated to a project, that would be listed there or any future uh, we would have there outside of that 5-year gap. Yes. >> I didn't understand the prior funding. Does it mean that the prior funding is still is there and unspent and it's left over and we can spend it now or what? Uh it could be both. Um I mean the that that it was app prior funding is it was approved in a prior CIP. Now I it doesn't it doesn't note if part of that those funds were spent or not. >> We we would have access to that but that does not show that. >> Okay. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> So if there's money allocated for a project in a previous year say it didn't get completed or something. So say the money was there in 2025 for project X and that money didn't get spent or the project didn't complete it. That money stays there available for that project. But say the project doesn't get done or something like that. We can't take that money and say well we ran short over here. We'll just spend it on this that then that project dies. The money goes back into the capital improvements pot. >> Okay. >> And then would be reallocated in the future. So unspent money still has to the project has to be completed, you know, still you don't if the project doesn't get done, you don't lose the money for that project. I don't know if that's kind of what you were asking about or not. >> So that that prior number is definitely the the the number that was approved, not necessarily the available balance, if that makes sense. >> And every year we add a year drop. >> Yep. Every year it's it's a five-year plan that just rolls through. Correct. And like Darren said, you know, if a if a project didn't go for whatever reason, we we're talking with the finance department to say, "Hey, can we carry those dollars over or no, maybe that project is just fell off the the grid for some reason?" And then those dollars go back into the the main fund to to be allocated. Uh tonight, I think I we do want to address three different pages. Um so we'll talk quickly about the park master planning, the Cullen Nature Preserve, and then the parks pro the parks project implementation pages. And then if you guys had any general questions, we're open to answer those. Or if you wanted to look at specific pages, we'll definitely do that. But I think those three pages we wanted to address. I don't know. Madam, were you going to talk about those? >> Oh, that's it. >> Yes. >> The park. >> So the first one is part master plan >> in in the page that you just went past. if there was um like a summary cover page the on page two or three I somehow Granicus has decided it doesn't like my password anymore. Um, >> it was >> it said something about that there was a park improvement plan >> and I >> I think Matt's going to talk about that improvement that was >> page 11 you said was >> that's master planning park master. >> Oh, sure. >> But your question is about the park investment plan. Maybe that's I I can't see my notes anymore because I can't see the dang page. >> Park investment plan. >> It was in the cover page and there were three plans. The >> natural resources master plan and something and then a park something. >> I think that might have been. So when I first talked about some of the plans that we referenced to to look at some of the projects. So Darren can maybe talk I think about the park investment plan. Uh >> I just I wasn't I didn't recognize that as something I'd read before. >> The park parks and trail investment plan. That one. >> Oh this >> that's Yeah, that's a CIP page. >> Yeah, it was it was in the CIP, >> right? And Darren presented on that at the last meeting. Remember he talked about the trail investment >> trail improvement plan. >> Oh, okay. I think of that as parks and trails. I didn't think that was its name. Can you would you be willing to >> Oh, absolutely. >> The two that confuse me are the park investment fund. Park investment plan and the park and trail improvement fund. The park and trail improvement fund is our big pot of money that we draw from for parks projects. The park investment plan is that singular CIP page that we replace playgrounds and and play and equipment with that Darren presented at the last meeting. >> Very good. Okay. I just didn't connect those two. I do remember all the discussion about the playgrounds. I was paying attention. Okay. Thank you. >> Um so we wanted to talk briefly about park master planning. So um >> then I don't need >> we out of the post plan we identified high priority park master plans the community parks. We've since done purgatory. Big willow is coming in the relatively near term. Um, but what we're seeing is that these efforts are large. They take a lot of time and we want to be really responsive in the community during them. They they take longer than we initially thought they would. And then we want to think a little bit more about implementation of items along that process. So, we're spacing out the park master planning a little more into the future um rather than stacking them all together. So we can be a little more thoughtful about the responses we're getting on Big Willow, for instance, could influence our parkm planning process for Lone Lake, which would be the one coming up in the future. So this draft of this page is showing Lone Lake as being pushed into 2028 rather than the previous CIP page had it next year in 2027. So just stretching that process out a little bit more, giving us some breathing room, some staff availability to implement some of these efforts that are being identified through the park planning process. And then even the ones that, you know, weren't necessarily identified in the post plan um that come up with street reconstruction projects. For instance, Glennmore Park is a small um neighborhood park that we've had to think about because Kinsel neighborhood street reconstruction's happening. So there ends up being a lot of park related efforts. So spacing out these large community park master planning um projects a little bit further into the future. So that's the key change on this page. >> So is there any master plan in 2027? >> No. >> Okay. >> Is will we be discussing the CIP page where it talks about the habitat restoration work in each park in each in the next five years? >> We can if you'd like to. I just had a question about it. So, >> sure. Do we want to try to hit those three that we identified? Let's Are we good with the park master planning? Again, it's just to stretch them out to try to I think >> I'm completely in support. >> Yeah, it's it's clear to us how much work it is. So, >> yeah, >> I think the second one was the Colin Nature Preserve. Thank you. >> Yep. So, speaking of park planning, we've um basically wrapped up the Colon Nature Preserve master plan. Um this is a significant um project in the city. Um we are looking to fund this in the near future. Last year in the CIP this was a pending status and we did go for LCCMR grant dollars but were unfortunately denied. So the previous CIP page was pending based on that grant result. Unfortunately we did not get that. So this page is what it looked like last year. Essentially, there was a 2026 or I'm sorry, there was another column of 450 to get us to 900, which is the total estimate. So, this was um not quite complete. This doesn't cover the full expense that the master plan is proposing to need for Colin. Um but we are discussing internally with finance and and all the managers at public works um how to handle this that you know what what do we want to draft in this upcoming CIP page to support the potential for building out this effort um that we've identified in the park master plan. So we were looking for feedback on that tonight. >> So on on this one you do have 450 indicated as prior and I'm also confused does that mean we actually have set aside 450? It was always pending. So no money in last year's CIP was set aside because it was dependent on the grant result. >> So the page never shifted from pending to actual. >> So should that say prior 450? >> This is misleading. >> Yeah. >> And we don't have the grant. Is that what we just I just heard you say? Okay. So correct. >> I can't Okay. >> So it really is like a zero priority 450. >> Yes. So, >> and where is the money coming from city money then for 2027? >> That's what we need to discuss. That's what we're talking with finance and >> what ultimately the city council would need to decide. >> And was there also a page for the parking lot? Is that separate from this? >> No, that would have been in here. So, that was all the items identified in the um park master plan. >> Okay. So everything in that plan, trails, boardwalks, signage, everything totals out to about 900. And the previous version of this page split that over two years. >> Okay. >> Um our finance just shifted that into the past because we're a year forward. Um so this is certainly confusing >> and and the way our budgeting works, there's no way to do 2026 at all because we're in the that's we're looking at 2027 now. >> Correct. Was there, you know, I remember at our meeting on the Cullen master planning that somebody suggested that the friends group might have some donations, some private was that ever um explored or brought up again? >> We work with the friends of Colin every day basically. Um, so yeah, we're continuing to talk about that, but you know, this is a city investment, so um, we want to focus what the city can bring to the table to to open it to the public, too. >> Got it. And again, it's more of a comment, but LCSCMR funds a skate park >> over a nature center. >> It's I think it was that it was a unique >> identified recreational activity. part of the our disadvantage in the in the column master planning was we're Minnitonka >> so that money gets spread a little more broadly outside of the metro to communities that may not have the resources themselves. >> Um so that hurt us in the scoring and then it happened to be last year where there were a lot of federal cuts to research projects. So a lot of the LCCMR money went to the university for continuing research projects, forestry, plant research, medical research that was being cut last year around this time. So are you I mean I I I think we should change this to status approved and 900,000 coming from the city. Is that the plan? That's what we're here for. >> However, is there a tradeoff? Do we have to cut 900 from somewhere else because there's a finite budget? Is there any trade-offs we need to discuss or >> no? Is that someone else's job >> that we need to sit with finance and the city manager and we need to look at all the pots of money and discuss what an actual draft page for this particular effort would look like. um you know talking about all sorts of options phasing pulling pulling from other existing efforts. >> Um we had talked about pushing master planning out further into the future to pull that money into Cullen in the short term. So we were floating a lot of options. So So >> sounds like you need more time before you have a recommendation. >> This was premature. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Just the stat is either active or pending. Correct. >> Correct. Inactive only means there's actually been dollars set aside. >> Yes. So once the council approves an active CIP page that fiscal year or that first of the following year would have that money available. >> And what about legacy grant? Did we look into that as a potential alternative to LCCMR that might be more friendly for? >> We are continuing to look at grant opportunities for Colins specifically around restoration. So, we are we're we are continuing to perform restoration at Col. >> I know it's a lot of work, but hopefully there's some payoff with a new park in the metro natural resource base. >> Yep. >> So, we'll continue to pursue grants specifically for the restoration work. >> So, so what do we how can we support support this to move it forward? I'm a little confused to how are since we don't approve we don't we don't really control the purse strings. >> Um >> we're making our dream list. >> No, I mean no >> yeah we don't control the purse strings. So >> it is on our dream list and we've already said we approved the the master of the plan. We're trying to figure out here how do we determine how to get dollars from the city? How's the city generate dollars to turn that into active >> basically? Right. Yep. >> And and I would be personally I would be okay pushing master planning another further out if that actually generated enough money to do something. I mean there's no sense there's some some amount that isn't worth doing but you know I think this is a really a valuable thing that >> I think your expression of that interest try to figure something out. I think that's what we're looking for. We're looking for your general support to have us come up with ways to fund the Colin Nature Preserve. >> Yeah. I think this is a legacy for the park board, but was generated by the locals and the individual who donated the land. >> Correct. >> Um but this would be a really good um thing to pursue at this point in time. I also would like to say that if this in in our next review and then the city council sees what we're talking about, if they don't approve it, then that's where we're going in September with the city council >> on a walk. >> Well, they've been there business case. >> Yeah, they the um we're just going to bring it back to the top of their minds again. >> Maybe I can just jump in a little bit. So, as we kind of started this, we're we're early in the process and so that's why we're getting feedback. This feedback is good. >> Yes, there are trade-offs. We're not the finance. So, we're going to go and talk to our finance director and city manager and as we meet with different departments, uh what I would say is >> yes, we would love to have 900,000. Does that mean there's going to be no trade-offs? I that's hard. I can't imagine that there wouldn't be trade-offs, right? And when you look at park master planning, the park master planning was in 2028. >> The city manager is also looking kind of yearbyear, right? So >> adding certain dollars in 27 but taking away in 28. You know that there's there's a lot of different um balls in the air. So I think that, you know, we rely heavily on the finance department. We can definitely go back to them saying, you know, the park board is supportive of this. You know, I don't know if if partial funding is is an option. You know, I I don't know. But but we wanted to hear feedback. That's why we're talking about here. >> But we had master plane in 27 2027. What were those dollars in this year's plan? >> We were going to do um Lone Lake in 27. >> And what was that budget? >> 140 or something. >> So where to kind of Darren's example, it goes back into Is that 140 still sitting around somewhere? >> So interestingly enough, so when when we got the 5-year plan, they actually approved the next year. So we get those one-year dollars. So last year they approved 26 even though there were $127. Those those can shift. So those are those those were not in the in the piggy bank if that makes sense. >> It's pretend money so far. >> Well they they approve we want to look and and see what the future is and that's why we plan five years in advance but when they approve the CIP you know we look at that first year in there as the dollars that are approved. Um, I certainly approve would approve of getting as much done at Cullen as we can. I mean, even if it meant a crushed rock, parking pad, and some trails. >> Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't deteriorate your plan >> to fit the dollars, but I would fit the dollars to what goes against the plan. Do you know what I mean? >> Absolutely. Yeah. Are you saying you don't like my my crushed rock parking pad or are you >> No, I just mean Well, we that's not I don't remember what we approved. I just meant I just meant if we have fewer dollars I wouldn't go well we were going to do this now well we'll put in you know >> plywood instead of we want to have the >> you know what I mean? I think perhaps you were getting at implementation over a few years and it would start with a lesser parking and then that would be upgraded in three years. >> That's what I meant. Thank you for translating. >> There's a lot of options. >> The same thing. >> Yeah. >> So throughout our discussions with finance and then eventually when it goes to the city council for the first time, we would have more of this thought through and and more options for them to respond to. >> Do we do we know what uh manageable increments are useful? you know, there was like, well, if we had 100, we could do this, and if it's 200, we do this. And >> I would have to look closer at the master plan if we were going to think through some phasing to what would the essentials would be access, safe access, safe trails, >> some wayinding. There are like essentials that we would absolutely need. >> Ideally, we'd have it all at once. So, that's what we should continue to go for. U but I would need to think from a park planning perspective what would be essential versus what could be rolled out. >> Dave we have a public person who would like to speak. >> Yeah I know just for one more >> one more thought. So as an example the big willow implementation y >> we can't trade off that because there's no dollars for that yet either right. >> Yes. I mean, we all we have budgeted for Big Willow is the planning at this point. >> Okay, that's what I thought. >> We just don't have any money. >> Going to steal from Big Willow, right? >> Well, I I I I might have if we had if we had not the planning dollars, but if we had >> That's my park. >> I know that's your park, but you can you can walk up the street to Colin. Just don't bring your dog. >> Chair, if there's any other comments on this page, we do have one other page we'd like to talk about before we open it up if that's okay. Okay. >> Um any other comments? It seems like general support and kind of see what we can get type of >> Yeah. >> Is that fair enough? Okay. And then the third was the parks um implementation or the what page. >> I believe it was >> Hold on. Hold on. Let me do this. >> No, you don't want to do that. >> Was one of the last ones? >> 19 or 20 maybe. >> Do we do we want to have Gerald talk now or before? >> After. >> After. Okay. We just have one more page which I think will be pretty quick. You okay? >> That new page that you threw in the Matt. >> Oh yes yes yes. >> Trying to find it. There it is. >> So in the spirit of spacing the park master planning um out to accomplish some of the items identified through the park planning process. For instance, Purgatory Park's master plan was a while ago. Now, it's been delayed, but there are known park improvements. So, some trail permanent trail wavefinding has yet to be accomplished. Um, some erosion of trails in general um um overlooks in the park where we're seeing some um pretty aggressive trampling of highquality prairie areas. Just doing some landscaping to sort of keep people on the trail in some key areas. So, scheduling out um some money in the relatively near future to start implementing smaller ticket items from the master planning and having this new page moving forward as we begin to identify those larger efforts coming out of the master plan that this would be a home for those in the future. So, we know Big Willow is not adopted yet, but we know we're going to need wayfinding. We know there's some obvious stuff that we're going to need and then we would determine what those efforts would be in the future as we get the master plans adopted. and look back at the ones already adopted. >> I have a question on the uh memorial bench strategy. Is that a fundraising or is that something that um the city >> it would be a it we do um accept donations to put those fundraising was a bit >> the problem is um a lot of the benches are old at this point. There's sort of a smattering of old style benches, new style benches. um we don't quite have a strategy for what's the appropriate spacing of those benches, what's the right amount for the park. We get a lot of requests and we end up um you know telling the folks we don't have a spot for you often. So just generally have a mapping strategy for each of our parks saying if you were interested here's what's available we have those locations mapped it would be x amount of dollars for you to purchase the bench and have the plaque applied rather than responding to each request that we get >> and then do the benches have a useful life and not into perpetuity >> right now they're in perpetuity. We have our bench style, the one the newer ones that you see. But yeah, general memorialization or or um you know, we get groups who do trash pickup along trails. We like sort of lose touch with those organizations over time. Would we need a similar sort of a reassessment, re-engagement of a memorial feature 10 years, 20 years out or is it in perpetuity? Just collecting our thoughts on that. >> Thank you. That's all I had. >> Should you two quick things? Um, the project we just talked about, Glen Lake, >> is there a page in here? I'm scanning frantically looking to see if there's anything. >> There is a skate page in here. Yep. >> Okay. Can you >> Do we know the number? I can't find it quickly. >> It's alphabetical. just to put together what we were just talking about to show the what you've prioritized for money. >> Sorry, pardon the scrolling. >> So, initially it was a skate park page and then once we identified we went through the feasibility, it identified Glen Lake Park. >> Mhm. >> So, it does say Glen Lake Park. Yeah, it does. >> Page six. This one. There you go. >> Thank you. 135 starting in Okay. And the money below the 150 is just design. >> Yeah. Is that million2 really there >> construction? >> That was prior. >> So that's really there. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> What do you mean 400 of that is the >> Well, Collins Collins 450 isn't really there, >> but this million too is there >> because it was active last year. >> It was active. This was active. This has always been active. Yeah. >> Wow. >> So 400 of this is >> the grant. >> The grant. >> Yeah. >> And why is that not indicated there? >> I found that >> odd because on the other ones it tells that >> which pool the money came. >> Yeah. Most of the other ones it has two funding sources if there are two. I >> Does the prior column look like that for all of them? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, we have one that had a one that we didn't get it. So, uh >> to add the grant in the draft, the draft that they're working on. >> Yeah. And we'll have to try to figure out how to Yeah, the prior is very confusing. >> That's not all coming from the community investment. >> Your your description describes the funding, but your table doesn't >> it's I like it to be consistent. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> understand. Finance uses software that spits. Did >> you have a question? >> Okay. And my question is um in the spirit of tradeoffs, would we trade off the ice at Ridgedale for money for Cullen? >> The 200 for equipment. >> I would Oh, if you if you care. >> Is that 200 real? >> That's been a previously active page. It's showing as active. I >> think we keep pushing. >> I would I would be supportive of that too if the 200 does something. Me too. >> Darren wants to skate. >> I mean I mean Colin's been working on for a long my know for a long time. >> It's prioritizing and you know >> and no one knows >> meet needs of different park users. >> I I like skating. I'm not going to say I don't like skating, but I my priority if I had to choose between the two would be Colin at this point in time >> and the skating could come later >> cuz it's not going anywhere, >> right? And no one knows it's not there now, >> right? >> Whereas whereas they've been working on culling for a long and it's, you know, but I don't know if the 200 does much. >> Well, when you're um >> hopefully it does >> looking for everywhere you can. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I guess I'm just curious. This is my second CIP round. how much we you really need us to to tell you where to cut or where to find 900 or is that more again finance folks saying are them saying them hearing you say park board said find it for Cullen >> and then the report back is well here's where we found it folks it's the skate it's the um >> ice skating >> ice skating and it's this other thing and this other thing. What do you guys think? Do you still want, you know? So, I don't know. That's It seems a little weedy. >> Sure. >> That's why I'm asking. >> Y Well, to me, the one advantage of us making a position on this is it says we think Cullen's important enough that we're willing to trade off one of our own projects timing to make it happen. But I agree with you. At the end of the day, we you know, we we don't actually but but to me that would be significant to the council to hear that we want to want to do that. >> Yes. I think that's the point is you would say we as a park word would be open to repprioritizing. It would be up to them ultimately, but >> I think that's an important statement. >> I mean, I think that shows that we're trying to be fiscally responsible. >> Thank you for finding the ice rink. So just to give a little background, so the park and trail improvement fund has two basic funding sources. So it gets money through the general tax levy and it gets money through park dedication fees. >> So when the finance department is looking at the next five years out, they're looking at what do they kind of they kind of get a feel for the overall tax levy pro projected out into the future. And then they work with community development and kind of try to get a feel for, you know, projects that might be happening in the next two, three years to say, okay, we're probably going to get this much money of of park dedication fees. So that that's kind of project. So they have they say, okay, what's our pot going to be? How's our expenditures going to be? What can the fund support? So they have that pool of money and then they have what our asks are and then see how much it can support. So there's there's a few things that are kind of known in the future for how much, you know, so the previous Colin page had $700,000 in grant money that they're hopefully to use to fund it and $200,000 out of the park and trail fund. So now to say, okay, well, it's very unlikely we're going to get 700,000. So now the city has to come up with 900,000. How does that money coming in in the next five years going to be able to support that $900,000 ask? What can it be in two years? Does it have to be in five years spread out in phases or so that's where they you know it all and then all the other projects come along to cook it all up and see what money is available. So that's a little bit of a background on how how that this fund is is built up. So, does that mean that the city was already okay with 200? So, now we have 400. >> Now we have No. Well, now we kind of said now we have we have kind of 200 year marked. >> I know. But if we were willing to trade off the refrigeration, would that mean now we have 400 >> somewhat? Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, the the 200,000 wasn't, you know, like the 200 the $100,000 in 2026 >> was never dedicated money. Looking at the 2027, that $100,000 that was in there probably is sort of there. >> Okay. All right. So, you guys >> kind of figure that out. >> I can't I can't say yes. Well, because the 2027 isn't approved yet, right? So, but when they were looking at the fund balance of what it can support, it was thinking of, yeah, we're going to be pulling to $100,000 for Cullen in the next 5 years is that big of a hit. So, the and the $200,000 is in the projections for the years is kind of set aside for how it's the the money flow through the park and trail improvement fund. Good. So, $300,000 is kind of Yes. >> Awesome. >> Ear marked. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, Darren. I mean, again, the finance is looking year to year, funding each fund differently, you know, so there's there's a lot of different >> So, it's good we're doing this meeting early. >> Yeah. No, I mean, I think this is good feedback and I think in general, we're hearing that >> you would like to fund Cullen and and you'd like to make potentially even shift some things around if if if needed. It's kind of what we're hearing. So, this is good information for us to go back again. We still we have more meetings uh with the finance team, with the city management, and across departments to come. So, Those were the three pages we wanted to discuss. I don't know if you want to >> other questions. Otherwise, do you still want like to talk? >> Oh, yeah. Just for a second. >> My name is Gerald Gerson and I live at 13936 Oakland Place in Minnetonka. Thank you for allowing me to speak. And uh before I get into what I want to say, I want to address what you said about the gentleman that spoke at the end of the meeting where you approved the master plan being moved on and we have applied for the grant with that family foundation and we're pretty optimistic and then we'd work with Matt to hopefully use it's not a huge sum of money but to use that money to be matching funds to go for a DNR grant. But with as we know we can't count on grants and that's where we feel that we really need city funding. Um you know it's been a long time that that we've been working on this with the city. We have close to 500 people on our email list and you know a lot of questions that we get is when is it going to open to the public? So um I I feel confident with your enthusiasm and the good things we've heard from the city council too that we'll get there. But uh the friends are not supportive of opening up peace meal. And one of the reasons is you know we want the accessibility of course and then we want the interpretation the education that the city the friends will do so people understand the uniqueness of this a rare oak savannah habitat in the middle of a developed suburb and there's no other oak savannah around here. So we feel that people need to have the respect and the education for what that is. So we're not seeing, you know, trails that are cut different places. And if it's done peacemail, we're afraid that that would happen. So I I I like what I'm hearing from you. It's it's it's great. And if we can get the full funding, that would be wonderful. And I invite you, you know, to come out to the preserve. Spring is an exciting time there. You might have read my uh email with a photo of the owls. That's a mother and a baby and the baby's getting really big. And we have our bird surveys. That's a time when people can see the preserve. So, grab a pair of binoculars and come out with us. You can go to our website and see when those dates are. The city is also doing uh a separate through Christine Peterson is doing a bird walk there. That's coming up. And then we have garlic mustard. If you want to get down on your hands and knees and pull garlic mustard, we welcome that. Or if you just want to take a walk, I know Caleb took a walk with us not that long ago. Please let me know and we'll arrange a time to go out there so we can talk about it. So um thank you very much and uh we're looking forward to this moving to the city council the master plan and hopefully the full funding. Thank you. >> Thank you. any other specific pages people wanted to discuss? Otherwise, again, we were just trying to get feedback tonight. Those three pages were kind of new and and we wanted to talk about those specifically, but we're happy to answer questions or if anybody wants to look at other pages, we're we're here. >> Um, I had a question about park 27309 park habitat stewardship plan. I it's uh page 129 in the entire packet, but >> thank you. That helped. >> Wow, >> that helps me. >> I didn't get that far. I'm impressed. >> Uh well, um I >> We have it up here, too. >> Okay, for those who can see that far. Um make it bigger. It seems like is it really is that enough money to do all that? >> So in a $120,000 to do that would be Lone Lake Park and to Tower Hill Park. >> Yeah. So so if you remember when the natural resources master plan was adopted, it identified a basically a phasing for restoration for funding restoration in our priority parks. And so we're kind of working down our priority parks and we develop the the restoration plans that come to you and then we once the money is available we initiate some restoration. This doesn't necessarily mean that all parts of the park are going to get restored. It's really about focusing on those prior priority areas. >> Okay. >> Um and so we have you know we've gone through and we've figured out which parks we we want to be focusing on especially when we had master planning happening. We wanted to make sure that the park restoration plan was completed before the park master plan was initiated. Um, but this this doesn't represent all of that's happening in these parks either. We have volunteers working. >> We also have funding in our operating budget which is separate from the CIP that also funds restoration. So this is really what we consider really uh uh what we call initial or sort of intensive restoration in the high priority areas of the park. >> Okay, >> that answers your question. >> And it's also a circuit. So the first year to the first parks, Purgatory and Hillaway in 2023 were the first sites on this particular page. They'll come back around in 28 and we'll reinvest in the areas already >> performed restoration and spread those as much as we can given those dollars. >> Okay? Cuz I I was biking through purgatory and you know you can you can see the places where there's still buckthornne and garlic mustard and >> and we have big parks. We >> they're big. That's a lot of >> And so just to put this in context, if you consider the existing the money we have in our operating budget in our natural resources division, we have almost 300,000 available every year for restoration efforts. And so some of so this is really focused on those in initial kind of intensive really aggressive restoration and the high priority areas of these parks. But we also have maintenance dollars. So we are, you know, sometimes we're doing some aggressive restoration in one part and we're doing general maintenance in another part. So it's it's kind of a patchwork >> is the best way to explain it. >> For instance, uh we we bought $30,000 in native seed and that came out of our operating budget and that gets distributed to the volunteers and >> that restoration money isn't reflected on this page. And as a quick aside, if it can be quick as they're going to be burning, >> we're going to burn as much as we possibly can. Yes, we are leaning into >> burn. That doesn't sound good. >> You know, my emails got flagged. Be careful. I >> side note, I I had my emails. I was trying to contact a contractor for the prescribed maintenance intense fire event at Colin and my emails kept getting flagged and weren't getting through because I kept saying burn. When are we burning and I was mad at this contractor for not getting back to me. It turned out so anyway prescribed burns for restoration. Yes, we are looking at and we are specifically initial performing initial restoration areas where we can get to burning being the the norm in terms of maintenance. >> Okay. I could see that Chan Hassan had been out burning already. >> We Yes, we we dropped the ball on spring burn this year. My fault. >> Eden Prairie was too. And I was surprised that it was the day of the red flag >> and they were burning right along four at uh really >> well it's at Birch Island right there by the right by the street. Well, brace yourself for this fall. We're going to burn Colin and we are going to burn purgatory prescribed fire. >> So it'll be dramatic fall for burning. >> Burning in purgatory. I don't know. Anyone else pick that up? >> Yeah, I did. I did, but I wasn't going to say it. Sorry. Okay, >> Caleb. >> Uh, so I had brought this up when we were doing our um work uh strategic plan work plan for this year. And at that point it was recommended that I that we could uh add it to a CIP and that was a ADA audit that would be park uh specific. You know, we're not I'm not saying let's audit the entire city and everything in it for ADA. Uh I I noted on the Burwell uh that in 2023 that area that park or maybe it was just the structure had a 88 I think it was the the park uh assessment and then of course there were things to act on and so I remember one comment was well if we find stuff we have to fix it by law. that would make this a number one priority legal, right? Legal ADA violate, you know. So, I do think it would rise to a a top level for for funding that audit understanding, of course, we we would all understand that if there were issues, they would have to be fixed, but that's exactly what we would want is those things to be fixed. So, it's not just the cost of the audit, unless we're just already doing tremendously, which which would be fantastic, but I would like to recommend that we add a CIP for ADA audit, not not including Burwell and of um park trail, you know, in our wheelhouse, however that would be defined or described. And you want to look at your proposal is to look at all the parks as opposed to looking at each park when we get to the master planning stage. Yeah, this would be a um >> a separate all all germanine to our our area as a separate um audit with a consultant or you know, however that however that happens. Uh and in part in in part we want to know before we dole out what is now even appropriately a more lengthy um master planning process. I also I guess worry unless we really did it you know with the playground uh the the playground piece which is also uh cyclical but a long cycle that we we might have delays in actually making improvements if they're needed. So I would I would my goal would be to do it fully and then be able to respond to the audit. >> So do we can to Ann's point do we include an an outside review with the ADA when we do our master planning or >> for instance the big willow master plan our consultant Bolton Mink they did a full ADA audit. So you saw trails little >> stars saying these are problem areas. This is the severity. So through the master planning process, we do have essentially what Caleb's describing, but it's not citywide. So we would So then again as as you guys help me like determine what this should look like. Yes, there may be carveouts that we can say like look we already are spending the money through consulting for master plan >> so we don't need to include that when we're thinking of a budget or a consultant to do this. we did burwell. Uh so we you know however those car routs might look um especially if it's fairly either uh what I'm I'm thinking I was just going to say loan uh lone lake but uh now we push that to 28. So anyway I was just thinking like if we're already doing it we did it for cullen right uh or for the planning for that. So there are some things we could just say and then I guess something if we've done it the last three three four years we know that from our master planning of like purgatory or other things again those could be cutouts which is good might help might help the consulting cost might help the audit findings requiring costs to to fix because those are the biggest places um that we're that we're dealing with. And of course, any new trail in the last many years has been ADA reviewed. So, um I guess this as we're talking the second thing might be like where do we even need this, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Like, you know, where where are there real gaps? and and you know, so I I I I look to your thoughts on how do we determine the gaps um to make it usable, cost effective, you know, not and not o not overly expensive compared to what we've already spent recently on or are doing. >> Yep. I I think we would need to talk to some consultants about what scale of ADA audits would make sense for us. What level of detail? What areas of um concern would we want to look at? What would that what would that sort of planning process look like? So, we would need to talk to some consultants. There's lots of folks that are experts in ADA and accessibility and park systems. there's a lot of new trends and what's um you know accessible beyond just simply what's required. So I think we'd need to talk to some consultants to get a sense of what that would cost. And I like the gaps, but I I think as we were talking it feels like we do have it covered. And and I'm not opposed as we've talked before about being a national um leader in some aspect in some shape or form. I think what concerns me a little bit is to your point of once we've identified it then we need to fix it and my concern is does that supersede our other pro uh priorities like Cullen you know with that so how to find it to blend it in and I I I think you've brought up a good point is where's where's a gap how would we find out what the gaps are and and what's um cutting edge NRPA type of stuff. Um, are they doing um what's cutting edge there that's um affordable? I don't know if there if that's an oxymoron, but um like I said, I I'm very supportive of the topic and being a national leader and that's where I see our skate park kind of fitting in that category. And so all the different categories would be great to do it, but I want to make sure we're not um stealing from one pot to another because it will be mandatory like you said once we've identified it and maybe we find that we're doing a really good job through the master planning process and incorporating those and and bringing things up to date um in a CIP methodical way. Do we have complaint tracking or complaints probably the wrong word but do I'll use it. Do we have complaint tracking on where people have expressed con ADA concerns within our existing parks? >> We get cons we get comments about um sink holes in the trail or or dangerous features at playgrounds. >> Yeah. I mean, we we don't have like a a log. You know, if somebody calls with a concern of, >> you know, here's this tripping hazard or here's this XYZ, we'll look at it and if it needs to be fixed, we'll fix it. >> So, it's, you know, >> if it's a definitely, you know, it's a onesie twoosy thing. It's not >> okay, this was identified, now we're going to look at the whole park kind of thing. So we've addressed case by case basis for >> we've had concerns expressed about specific I would say deterioration let's say in a like your example or Ann's example earlier >> the bridge >> the bridge >> but we haven't had anyone coming forward and saying this is a question saying uh you know I can't I can't access uh the pickle ball courts or I can't access this play that hasn't been occurring. I think some of the for instance the leadup to the bridge in Big Willow during that process everybody said that slope is way too steep. Yes, >> that's for everybody. >> Y >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> I don't know that we have a whole lot of those frankly. >> Okay. >> And our crews are active all year round fixing stuff that are obvious but general, you know, larger scale, >> right? To fill the to fill the to fill the gaps. Um, and to to know we're we're up we're legally up to snuff. Like I I I think uh I the the last thing I would want is for us to have multiple violations. But if we do then absolutely we absolutely we take money and we fix from other things and we fix an ADA violation. It's legally required. It's ethically required. It's morally required. So, I hope we're not in a situation where our city is having major trouble outside of our master park places. And I guess I'm hopeful that we're not. But having an audit gives us that information just like what we're going going to do next month. Getting information on areas that are uh postpl identified as problems but never actually really checking back. So this information hopefully is reinforcing of a city doing well. But if not, I absolutely, you know, it's required number one, but I think it's morally and ethically demands us to, yes, take money from elsewhere. If we're not doing good, if we're not doing good in what we have, then yes, we shouldn't be spending on new things that don't meet standards for people with disabilities. Okay. >> Did we used to have a I'm trying to remember this discussion last year. Did we have a separate CIP for a full audit or was that just disc that was okay? I didn't think so. I mean my my personal thing would be we're incorporating the latest our latest ADA thinking as we go through each park plan and we've had some recent examples that have been completed and in the personally for me in the absence of significant commentary about problems other than alcohol maintenance problems which always occur I Guess I guess I I I'm I'm comfortable with the ADA existing inside of our park planning because it's it's incorporated with a period of time we're going to be funding the ability to make changes. Um I understand what you're looking for, but on the other on the other token from that, if you did go through and find all kinds of stuff which no one's ever commented on or complained about, then you've got to fix those. and you fix those in the context of just fixing that and not in the context of fixing it as part of a broader master plan of that space. So I'm I'm personally comfortable with I it sounds like how I've been pursuing it. It's something we could certainly add a page for. We'll we'll we have between now and the next meeting, we'll look at that to see cuz we have 53 parks, you know, and we've done master planning for two or three and two or three and more. So there's six parks out of 53. So, you know, there's 47 still parks that a you know, we renovated many in the early 2000s. uh the ADA hasn't changed but people kind of methodologies and approaching those ADA uh requirements have changed over time you know things could have settled >> you know sidewalk settled or other things may have popped up so it's I think it's worth looking at and we can we can uh try to get with the consultant between now and the next meeting and look at get an idea of what it would take to review X number we We'll sit down and look at that. But it certainly >> you're talking about playgrounds. >> Yep. Play, you know, playgrounds, warming houses, parking lots, pedestrian ramps, crosswalks, all, you know, everything that you would look at, you know. So, we have our we have our parking lots, we have a playground, we have a pedestrian access route. Are those access routes, you know, if they were designed as being ADA compliant in the early 2000s, are they still that way? Okay. So there's there's a number of things, you know, you know, entrances into entrances into a wiring house or, you know, into the playground tanks or trails or there's there's a number of things that maybe we think are good and we haven't looked at, you know. >> Yeah. And my experienced at the state at the DNR was that if there was an issue, it there was no hesitancy to bring it up and it was addressed right away. And again, that's more of a reactive approach than I'm hearing um you suggesting a more proactive and and so mine is I support it, but I'm not really I'm not willing to give up culling for it. I'm going to just come out I'm going to come out and call a spade for a spade. I and I'm not saying and that's because I question of how much we are. I think we're pretty confident that we have one and I I'd like to have it be a methodical approach. Um >> yeah that well that'll be we'll just we'll research that and and see you know and find out from the consultants based on what the findings are. Uh you know kind of what I remember in the past you there's there's immediate fixes there's long-term fixes there's even longer term fixes. So even if you do an audit there's you might be two things that yeah we got to fix these right away but maybe not everything. So, it would, you know, it maybe it's uh in theory $100,000 worth of grand scheme of things, repairs, but you got to do $8,000 now or something. You know, that that li it's all limiting liability, right? So, we'll we can talk to a consultant in the next few weeks and get a feel for that and see how we approach it. >> The the and I think the examples you gave I think are good ones. >> Mhm. Kennegan and the warming house and things like that. When you talk about our our entire park system, I think of this is really silly, but I think of Lake Holiday Park for those of you familiar with it or Lake Charlotte Park, which is basically Parkland with a parking with a street parking. No, not even parking parking. Just pull up and stop a blue sign. >> And and so is it wheelchair accessible? Well, if you're willing to roll across the grass, but there's no path, there's nothing except the blue sign. Do you know what I mean? So, I mean, are we gonna talk about auditing? >> That would be look a lot we probably wouldn't audit like like say Lake Charlotte, there's no amenities in the park or >> there's still Spring Hill Park is two blocks away. So, you have other amenities. So, you know, so but that's that would get fleshed out in the in the >> it would we this would be a big picture thing setting up a CIP page. We would get a rough estimate of maybe what it would take to you know we have 54 parks. You know there's you know Charlotte Mooney. Uh there's several parks with not really any amenities that probably don't have to do anything, but there's others that are high use, many activities, many amenities. That would be the f you know, we have 31 >> playgrounds in the city for sure. You'd look at those uh and then go from there. So, but we would just this is a big picture item at this point just to develop get a rough idea of a cost and then what year do we put it in you know and what money to set aside for it. >> Sure. >> I like your idea about prioritizing because 54 does sound overwhelmingly expensive. >> Yeah. And you know what can a consultant do? Maybe maybe a consultant can't do with that many parks in here or if you have to get >> two consultants or you break it up in a couple years. We have that's again something we have to sit with consultant and explore all the options and get budget ideas. And it'd be interesting to know over 54 how many of them are like Charlotte and Lake Holiday which are basically you know blue sign by green green grass. >> Yeah. uh like >> just open space basically. >> Yeah. Yeah. But we call it a park. I mean there's not that many of them I suppose but but there are a few >> L park has a lot of many many acres and many of its gravel trails but there's high use parks and the playgrounds and the soccer fields and >> stuff that you would expect to access basketball. >> It's all it's all just something you look at. >> Y >> good. any any other any other these existing pages that people want to ask questions about or highlight or it's I'm glad we were doing this one early. >> Yeah, thank you. We appreciate the feedback. That's what we were here for tonight was to get feedback and we got it. Thank you. >> Great. So, with that, >> I get my sheet of paper. Are we on to a day information items? Uh, Chair Ingerham, we have no information items this time. >> Then we go to 8B upcoming meeting schedule. >> Yes. Um, so next uh month, which is June 3rd, will be our next uh parkboard meeting. And so, as we've been discussing, the final draft of the CIP, we would bring that back to you for additional comments. Um and then would be looking for a recommendation that would would then be forwarded to the city council and they will start reviewing in June as well. But after your June meeting um the big Willow Park master plan um I believe that's a final draft or is that a draft draft? >> It it's a next iteration >> next iteration of the master plan will come back for review. >> Um and then we had talked about this park areas of need kind of a deep dive. Um we were hoping to do that tonight. we did not have all of the pieces in place in time. So, I apologize for that, but we will put it on the June um schedule. And then in uh just a reminder, the September meeting is the joint meeting with the council. So, we will be looking for tour ideas. Um I heard potentially Colin um come up. Um they have been there I think twice. Not necessarily why a lot of you have been there, but uh I also am thinking that we had discussed about Opus. Um, knowing that there's Opus potential park going in, it might be a good time to get there as well. >> Would it be worth going to Glen Lake again? I know they're just there, but we you go to I depending on your where you are in your process could be useful to visualize stuff there. >> Yes. So, if you have any other ideas, um, please feel for please feel free to forward them. And then, uh, I'll turn it over to Kelly if you could provide an update on me. >> We got some things coming up. Uh last Saturday in May is the mountain bike opener. So it's 5 years uh since we built that mountain bike trail. Uh which is which is kind of crazy. Uh farmers market starts the first Tuesday in June. So that is again at the Marsh parking lot 3 to 7:00 p.m. Uh Shady Oak Beach opens Saturday, June 6th. And then I have the wrong date there for Summerfest. Summerfest is June 27th. It's the Saturday. Always the fourth Saturday of the month. Uh so Summerfest June 27th. >> That's it. And remind me, the farmers market's moving, shifting in the parking lot. >> It's shifting in the lot um further to the north. Um so there should be more parking available. Um you won't be able to see it as well off the road probably, but I think we hope people know it's there and um parking was a challenge at at times. So >> unless construction is this here, we think >> on the street >> they are doing the trail front. The trail is from to the marsh all the way west. >> Okay. >> It's a never ending project. >> We'll fingers crossed on the on the construction. >> Jeez. >> Great. Well, thank you. >> Do I have a motion for adjournment? >> Uh, chair and Graham. >> Park board member. >> Oh, park me reports. Anybody have any reports? >> I just have a quick one from U Big Willow. did notice a new sign for all dogs need to be on leash. Not to bring up this topic yet again, but I thought it was >> worth mentioning seeing that out there and I think it was in a really good spot. Um, and then one other comment that it was um really fun to get to know fellow uh members at the commission award um dinner. So, I want to say thank you for staff for putting that together. It was a good opportunity to learn about others, um, figure out how much we retained and just a general good time. So, thank you for that. >> Um, talking about signs in purgatory, I've seen some signs that say no offtrail biking and they're posted right by humanmade paths. And I is the is the intention that you're saying don't bike here. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um there's obviously a trail and so I think it's con not as clear as it could be if because there's if I'm biking and I say don't bike off trail. I think that means don't go where the grass is or the native plants. Um I so I would if there's an opportunity to make another sign >> Sure. >> something like you can't bike here >> would be clearer. >> Yeah. It's an interesting thing. I I kind of feel like it's almost like hey if you didn't see it this is where people off off trail bike. This sign is telling you don't do it. But you can clearly see that that's being done. >> Other times I've seen or walking. Other times I've seen those sign these kinds of signs. I don't even know if it's in this city or other city park and then there's some actual barrier put up temporary to say like we know what you're doing folks. We're burying it. We're doing a little barrier and we've got the sign. So, >> and these are a lot of these are now in what's considered the off leash dog area. And >> actually, actually the ones you thinking of I think are in leashed only area. They're right off the right off the limestone path right at the b along the bottom of the ridge where it has those >> uh these were at the top of the ridge. >> Okay. They're there too. Yeah. Those sign those signs have been there for a long time. >> Yeah, they have. And I it bugs me every sorry um I think about them every time I see them and then I >> I don't type into Minnetonka Mike or somebody but um so that's >> well >> my comment about signs. >> There's a need to assess all the signs in purgatory especially these days. So >> noted >> the the wording is used to try to match the ordinance. >> Yeah. >> So that that's why it's >> Yes. and it references the ordinance to to be similar to what the ordinance is and we give the ordinance then the ordinance >> yeah I saw that too and I I appreciate that um but I think you might agree with me that it can be confusing >> I actually I actually don't think it is because I think the bikers know they're not supposed to be there and you're just reinforcing that you're violating the ordinance by being there um because they've been there a long time and people most of that most of it because I I'm in there a lot and you can >> Do you think people are biking there? >> Not not as much as they used to and you kind of look at the ground you can see >> okay >> the the tread tread path I'm I'm surprised I've seen tread path in the >> I call it the center what is it area one now or area A or whatever you know where the prairie is. I've actually seen more bike tracks through there than I than I used to. Um, I used to not see any through there hardly, but and I know my wife's running the bikers going through the center there. Um, but but but there used to be a lot of biking in the hills and there really isn't much anymore. And all that all that most of those trails are all human drives. >> Okay. >> If if if it's working, then I withdraw my objections. I just >> I think what helped it was lone lake going in is what helped the most for that. Um, other other items. I got two. I guess I I would second the comment about the commit the appreciation dinner. I actually I was skeptical about the activity and I thought that was really good. So feedback for future years, variations of that could be pretty pretty interesting. Um, I attended I don't think I report on this. I think I mentioned at the commission dinner, but I attended the Three Rivers annual state of the parks meeting last month and it was at it's usually been at Highland, but this year it was at the what do they call it? The Mit Mississippi Gateway Park, the new one up in Brooklyn's Brooklyn Park, Brooklyn Center on the by the Rivers Rapids Dam. And that I would just put a plug in for that park. It's pretty spectacular investment and a lot of accessibility uh features there. Um I think most of you will get invites to that every year. It might show up in your spam account, but I would encourage um you know attending that if you can. It's justformational and they spend so much money and do a good job. Spend so much money on parks, trails. Um it's worth seeing what they're doing. I know they're going to make an investment coming through our city with the trail coming down Baker Road. So that's all I have. Okay. >> So now there aren't any more reports. >> Do I have any motions? >> I move we adjourn. >> I second. >> All in favor? >> I >> Great. >> Great. >> Thank you. Good meeting. >> Yes. I sent you an email to remind you I'm a copy of the juice. I also am not taking this with me. >> So I don't have emails or >> Noa County uh they went through the list. I mean it's like the four or five governing bodies have county uh DNR the it was