recording. So, I'm going to call the meeting to order. This is the uh city council meeting for Minatrista, April 21st, 2025. Uh first, I'd like to ask that you all stand and join me for pledge of allegiance. Algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And then just a reminder, if you have cell phones, please turn them on silent or airplane mode so they don't disrupt the meeting. And then I'm going to start by introductions. I'm Lisa Whan. I'm the mayor. And to my left are council members Kathleen Rufkin, Peter Vickery, Claudia Lacy, and Brian Govern. And then staff that's present this evening um in person I should say is Ally Pulus our assistant administrator Jasper Krugal our administrator Brian Grim our finance director and our chief of police Paul um Paul Okay sorry Paul just retired. Okay come on give me a break. This is the first meeting you've been at as our new chief. So, um, welcome, uh, Chief Squireers, and we're glad to have you here. Uh, and then we have remote, uh, we have we have, uh, the clerk, Ann Meeroff, and Sarah Sulla, our city attorney. Okay, so hi Ann and Sarah. Uh, with that, is there then a motion to approve the agenda or is any changes? Hearing none, all those um, is there a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. Thank you, Miss Lacy. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. G Graham. I govern too many Brians. All right. All those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. So, we do have one special presentation this evening. It's our first quarter financial update and then we have persons to be heard and we do have somebody sign up. So, first of all, Brian, you want to give us the good news? Yeah, Marian council. So yeah, first quarter of the year is usually pretty um I don't know, tame is the right word. It's usually not, you know, too much going on. So and and this uh first quarter of 2025 is um pretty much like the other ones. Um we don't have um our first half tax settlement doesn't come in until that June July time frame. So you can see on the revenue um page that was included in the packet our revenues. We've only collected 6% of our overall annual budget, but that'll catch up by, you know, like I said, mid year here. Um, one point I did have in the memo was that our our permits um for new homes are are doing pretty well. I think we've collected about 24% of that about um for the first quarter here and hopefully things keep going here. So, um that's that's a good sign there. As far as the expenditures, um we're basically at about 28% of our overall um total budget for the year of our actual expenditures so far. Pretty comparable to the previous year. We were at 27% last time. And the reason we're usually over a little bit is there's some things we've paid um the annual amounts for like our property insurance, workers compensation insurance, and we've paid actually um you know, we talked about the fire in our work session, but we paid um half of our um amounts to city of St. Bonafations and city amount. So those are through basically you know half year versus just first quarter. Um otherwise there's some notes as far as the overall cash and investment amounts on all funds that that amount or that report is attached also. with a few notes. Um, you know, namely I think the the water fund, the cash balance is a little higher because we still have some of the bond proceeds that we had from last fall that we're still spending. Um, probably saw there was another payment to trout in the packet for um our wells. So, that project's moving along their two new wells and um yes, yeah, I'll probably stand for any questions, but otherwise um we're we're doing pretty well. And I guess the other thing I'll mention is that the uh audit is on track to be presented our final year end 2024 numbers at the I think it's the May 19th uh city council meeting. Have you gotten a report for the from the final audit? I have not gotten a draft yet. I should be getting that soon. So, um, but, um, as far as I I don't think anything from the field when the auditors were out here doing the field work should change too much as far as where that preliminary report I probably shown the council about a month ago or so on the year end premium numbers. The other thing I like about your reports too is seeing these uh fund balances because you know we've talked about that and we need to make sure that we're in our the for the general fund especially because of the timing of our uh revenues. But um yeah, that looks good. 43% I think you said we're at right now. So that's good. Yep. Okay. Questions, comments? All right. Um thank you very much. So, we will move on and we have uh one individual signed up. Um Mr. Lang, you have to come to the podium. Uh we'll give you three minutes and we probably won't be making any decisions here tonight, but uh you do you do need to um state your name for the record and and address for the record. Paul Lang. Paul and Wendy Lang at 6700 Woodedge Road just right over on the east side of Gailwoods Farm. and we've lived here 10 years now on a beautiful 6acre property and blessed to be there, but it's a nightmare on the road we live on. So, uh, Wood Edge is just a mess. Um, my best friend Gary Peters in the roads division hears from me all the time. The poor guy. Um, but it's potholes, it's mud, it's leaves, it's no matter how hard they try to help us out with grading and things, it's just a mess. Um, dust and the mud and everything, it's so a couple years ago, I got a petition in the neighborhood. Most of the people signed it and the only ones that didn't weren't there. I just didn't get to them. Um, so I think it was like eight out of 10 that were in favor of it. Um, now there's two new neighbors. So, if I started it over and got the petition again, I'm glad to do it. But because I understand you kind of have to have neighbor approval to do this if we're going to get assessed. Maybe not. I don't know. Well, you don't need neighbor approval, but um the project would be assessed. Um, and it can be 10 12 14,000. It's gravel currently. So those assessments are usually a little bit higher than if you're going from batuminous to batuminous. Um so they can be somewhat significant and we'd have to see where it would fit into our our plan because the city would pick up a great port a bigger portion of that. Um I did talk to Gary about it. He's great. He's just been the greatest guy. um we most likely wouldn't have it or wouldn't need uh sewer and water because everybody's got their own well, everybody's got their own septic and so that hopefully keeps the cost down some. Um so it we're surrounded by pavement uh on North Saunders and West Edge and Wood Edge. So you guys probably know which road it is. Yep, I'm familiar with it. Big road. So, I'm thinking maybe the cost isn't Well, um what we'd have to do is uh check with our um city engineer and maybe get some kind of highlevel estimate on what it would cost because you ever do a lowle sheet sheet worst case we we would have to know um if it's even feasible or doable. So for 20 uh let's see 25 those ones have been decided on. And we've actually decided on the roads for 26 and uh we do have a 10-year CIP plan and it's actually on our website and we would have to see if we can make any adjustments to that for 27. That would be the earliest possible and again it would have to fit into our our budget as well. So, um, that's why I'm saying we'd have to get some kind of highlevel estimate as to what it would cost. And, um, they, yes, we would not be bringing sewer and water in. I would assume we wouldn't. Um, so, but we still would have to know what it would cost for the for the road itself, right? Um, so in getting that estimate, is that something that could happen this year to get the estimate? Yeah, I'm sure it could. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, um, as far as the assessment goes, I understand it's spread out over 20 years or something for the people. So, if I, you know, can get the neighbors to nod and say yes. I mean, I don't know what, but maybe in that assessment, we'd find out how much it might be per year for Yeah. Yeah. We could, we could figure that out. Yeah. Okay. But, but again, it wouldn't be before 27. So, it'd be like 27 or 2028. Well, gives us something to look forward to. There you go. There you go. Council meeting uh last I don't know month or something and I didn't know you had to be a person of uh Oh, you had to sign it the whole damn Oh my gosh. full and I finally sat there. Can I Anyway, but Peter, I think it was told me that he's wanted his road darts. I thought, "Dang, he's not a city council. Can't get his road dart. We're screwed." Anyway, I was in the same position and it took from the time we complained it was over two years later. So, it's everyone wants nice roads. Yeah. So, Mr. Lang, what we'll do is um I'll ask um I'll ask staff to kind of give us some kind of estimate and then um we'll bring this back. It probably won't be until maybe this fall because I know our our work so we would have to bring it back to a work session and then and I know May is pretty full. I don't know about June. Yeah, I if I may I think what what we'll do is we'll get some cost estimates and see where it can get worked in. Um we'll have to deviate a little bit from our assessment policy. I think gravel roads currently say that it's 100% covered by residents, but I don't think historically that hasn't happened that way. Um, but yeah, I think I think the earliest that we could tack it on to a existing project, we were going to do um is it West Edge? We were going to we were going to or something. We were going to do that this year that got kicked to 27 28. So likely the it would be good to do that those together. Yeah. you know, so we'll have to see when that gets um added. So, I would say I don't know if a work session if you guys want to talk about it at a work session, we can. Otherwise, we'll just talk about it during the global CIP street discussion and if we want to put it in there, we can. I think it, you know, it'd be nice to give them some kind of an idea. So I think if we could bring it back either again if we're too busy and I know we'd only have one meeting in July but if if it's August September kind of we can bring it back that should give staff enough time to put some sure and figures together and yeah I know Gary's got a spreadsheet with this street on there and he knows right how much it's going to project to to cost so ballpark so um we'll be able to put that together pretty quickly. Okay, that's all I can ask. And then we'll um we'll let you um are you signed up or do you check our website regularly? Well, I don't but um if this is something I could keep an eye on like once a month or something and just see going on on the We'll try and notify you, but sometimes it gets lost in the shuffle. So, I'm going to put the ownerous on you. So, just check. We meet twice a month. It and I'm going to say it's not going to be before August. So, check our August. We have two meetings in August and two meetings in September. Check those. August might be the time where you'll have some numbers and an idea of what Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, I appreciate the time. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Um so, next we have um a consent agenda. You wanted to pull one off. Number D. So, any other ones you want to remove? Otherwise, not if not consent agenda items. um include approve our work session meeting minutes from April 7th, 2025. V is approve our city council regular meeting minutes from April 7th, 2025. And then approve a conditional offer of employment for police officer Melissa Robbins. I'm so excited. Um and then uh E is approve our claims. Is there a motion to approve A, B, C, and E? So move. Thank you, Miss Revkin. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. Vicky. All those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. 50. And Miss Ruffin, you had some questions. Yeah. So, I know I Jasper knows I was pulling this. Um, so at the work session back in March, we talked about it and we were going to you were going to work with Sarah to find out why it would be a bid versus quotes. So, let's start there. Yep. Uh, oh, because it's above 175,000. Okay. So, for for this one, it was it would require a bid. Um, for the other one we were talking about, the Milo system, that one was estimated at like 132. Uh, that one we're going to get quotes for. Okay. Um, is that so the whole just the equipment is 100 over 175,000 cuz I thought that was the equipment and then the contract for the usage and everything. So, it's the equipment, the installation, um, all that plus a one-year service contract for all of the license stuff. So, um, that all totaled, I think it was 265. Okay. And then would they also they would install it? Yep. Train train um and all of that. And would they service it? And I mean, if we would go with the the cloud solution, which was, I believe, the direction um that's all warrantied for 10 years. So, all of that hardware is 10 years, software gets automatically updated um for that 10-year period as well. Um, and then they, you know, USA Security would be the ones that provide the ongoing maintenance and support for that stuff if if that's who gets it. So, who came up with the specification list? Uh, so the USA security gave the list with the part numbers and and all of that. So, why aren't we going out to bid with just we want x amount of cameras, x amount of this, x amount of that, and then allowing the vendors to bring back what they recommend? We can do that. Um, so I think we we talked briefly about, you know, some other camera options like Motorola. We currently have like kind of a ver we have a verata infrastructure right now. So that's why we would replace them with vicata cameras u because that's what we went with in 2016 if we went with a whole different system. Um, might be more. It might be more. Um, and I think we I thought we I thought we focused on the verata side uh versus going out for everybody. If we were we can do that. So, don't we can we can definitely do that and go out for just the whole system. Um, I would say if that's the case, then I would like to get somebody that knows more about cameras and camera specifications to do the bidding stuff. If it's just us with the Vicata stuff that we know, I feel comfortable doing that. But if it's, you know, I don't know the difference between a Vicata camera and a Motorola camera versus something else. But I thought we asked uh former Chief Falls. Um, I thought he said the verata was that Am I thinking something different? Do you Craig? Do you know? Is there Do you know anything about camera? I don't know. I I There seem to be something that the police were more in tune with or something. They they they use these cameras probably the most out of anybody, right? Um, and that's the current system that we have and we went through it in 2016. But if we want to go try Hold on just wait just a minute. Yeah. No, Madame Mayor. uh council members. Yeah, we're we're very familiar with the system we have. Um plus the system we have stores video where we're familiar downloading it and getting to attorneys and uh getting to the public for data requests. So um I'm I'm not sure what Chief Falls might have been referred to. I can't remember either. I just Yeah, we're very familiar with the with the system and the ricotta system. Jasper and just then you can Yeah. Yeah. So, I I guess if if the direction is to go out and get like just an all-encompassing estimate or go up for bids on the whole on a whole new system, we're kind of retrofitting our existing system, so that's why we selected Vicata, but if we want to go out and try to get a whole new something, um, we could definitely do that. I think it would be more expensive. I don't know for sure, but I would say if we're going to do that, we should probably hire somebody to to facilitate the bidding process just because I'm I'm not a camera expert. Well, to that point, why aren't we asking vendors to come in and give us the recommendations like ADT, Brink, Stanley, any I don't know any other companies like say like here's what we would recommend, here's what it would cost. Like why aren't we asking them to do that just like you would do as a homeowner who wants to put in something? Like I guess I don't understand why we're not having people come to us with their recommendations and then seeing if the Vicata one is the best one to go with or if there's a better one out there or you know whatever might work. I just that's a lot of money to just here's the list that the vendor that we already use says that we need to spend all this money on. It's just I don't I just have a bad I just don't like it. I guess I I feel like we need to get through more Yeah, there needs to be more options. There needs to be something like I it the product list looks just like a vicata like shopping list. Like I mean we we specify in here a Visio 44 in TV. Like why does it have to be a Visio? Like stuff like that. I was just like this is silly. I mean that that's just my thought. So that's why I pulled it. I didn't I didn't get a good feeling and I had too many questions to leave it on. But sometimes what happens though if you have to go out for bids, you need to get apples to apples versus apples to oranges. So, no, hold on just a second. I understand what you're saying and I'm not opposing that. I'm just saying um we'd have to find out if you go out for bids, then you do have to do specs because you have to get the same. So in other words, if you just say, you know, so what you could do rather than going out for bids now, you could invite vendors to come in and tell you about their product then, but you would still, if it's going to be over 175,000, you still have to do a spec sheet. I could be wrong and Sarah, you can weigh in. You'd still have to do a spec sheet so that they all bid the same thing. Otherwise, you're not sure, you know, otherwise we might be vi in violation of some kind of state code or whatever. But if I may, so the reason why we're going with Vicata is because we're basically it's it's almost a maintenance project because we're replacing hardware that has is failing or has failed. So, it's not a new system. It's almost it almost falls into the sole source which means if it's a sole source like it's just vicata and that we're replacing a vicata camera with a vicata camera you know we're saying we want a vicata camera it falls into this you know sole source and we can get a a I think documentation of sole source but if we want to look at other cameras um you know we need to make sure it all integrates with our system our police are familiar with this that's why this is this is happening um And really, if we would have if we would have, you know, followed the maintenance plan kind of outlined in 2016, we would have likely just replace these cameras like we replace servers and things like that. Um, but if we want to go out and and try to develop a bid package to look at these other vendors and other options, we can definitely do that. there there's likely going to be, you know, it'll have to be facilitated by the police because they use it to make sure that they're comfortable with using it more, right? And that's I think what we were talking about before with Chief Falls. Um that's why I thought we went with Vicata, but um I understand what you're saying. Um so it's kind of it's up to the council. I don't doesn't matter to me. I think Oh, I know what it was. I think there was a timing issue, too. Wasn't that what also an issue? There was I I thought from the work session there was some driver to try to get this done as soon as we could. Um because they have met they're at end of life. If if let's say our our server fails right now, that means that we're renting a server from USA Security and then we're having them build a server or doing something different to replace the current server we have and we're just kind of forced to do work with USA Security because it's kind of an emergency. They're required to have some cameras um for BCA or BCA recommended cameras. So, that was kind of the driver that I think said, "Oh, we need to get this done." And I think somebody um maybe mentioned try to get it done by like April or May and it was like no this doesn't take it it'll take longer than that. That's why the we have a end date of October 31st. So but if you guys are okay and that was kind of explain the risk right if we kind of wait and push this off to 2026. We have to just be okay with you know renting a a server and and kind of getting us to that finish line. um possibly right possibly under kind of an emergency guys um because they need it or we can kind of proactively do it and replace it with the vicata system which is what the police want. Um so but we can do anything city council wants to do. So I would say if you want to go and get you know ADT Stanley USA security to say look at all of our stuff here's where we need cameras have them all prepare quotes or you know bids quotes or bids. It'll have to be bids, but then we'd have to develop probably more robust specs, um, more robust bid plan, you know, bid documents for this, which I would say then need I'm going to need to probably hire somebody like like we would have Allison do that stuff for a road project. So, if we want to go down that path, we can. I'm not saying we can't, but um apologize. I thought the direction was to proceed with the vicata stuff and then, you know, bid it out. There are there are four. Oh, the vercato one is what we thought would be best. And the guy that was here and the other guy that was here, they also talked with the police and the police said that they were familiar with that and so that was kind of their preference. Um, but council, what thoughts? I mean, Kathleen, I mean, it's it's a lot of money, and I get that the police are familiar with it, but just because this is what we have, it doesn't necessarily mean we have to automatically upgrade to the latest and greatest from the same company simply because they're used to it. I mean, we that's a lot of money and you can't necessarily So, how do you want to do this? I don't I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying you want to I'll say the same thing I said last time. I want to see other options like other vendors coming and saying like if we get let's say four vendors come here and they all say we recommend the vicata system. Okay. Well, then we'll do the VCA system and we'll But you just Okay. It it just seems like here's the option. So, you want them So, should they come to like a work session? Do you want two or three to come to a work session and explain? I mean, what I don't know if that'll I don't know what I'm not sure how to proceed other than I mean, how did we pick USA in the first place? I there was a there was a it actually went out for bids, so I know that. So long ago um in 2016. Yeah. So there's there's some value and I'll I'll advocate for the police. There's there's actually quite a bit of value in what they think that they can use because they're the ones that are going to be using it. I know that somebody could come into city council chambers and say, "Oh, this is the greatest thing and they could be really good at presenting, but they might not be able to use it." So there's some there's a lot of value to having the police figure out what they need for this. Um I get the the cost. I will mention there are four Vicata dealers in Minnesota and the idea was we reach out to them see if they would provide bids. Yeah. Um if they get bids but they would all be this the Vcotta brand or whatever they would and you know the Vicata rep was here you so so I'm guessing they're going to get all similar. Couldn't you take take this bid that you would give to all the Vicata people and give that same to let's say Motor or whatever other ones and say bid bid give us a bid with your products and tell us why we should use you. I mean you you could you so so my question also I should I'm sorry another question is so if we did that and then let's say Motorola came back XYZ and they were cheaper because it's a bid and it's over 175 wouldn't you have to have to take the lowest responsible bidder it it it gets if you you have to have a really robust specifications sheet when you bid this out. So, you need to tell them exactly what you want, which it gets into those camera specs, which I'm fine with, but I'm just saying there's people out there that can help us do this really easily. Um, it'll just delay this by probably, I'd say, a couple months. Um, which we just have to be okay with. Okay. Um, just say, you know, or equivalent to and then whatever the current spec is, right? Yeah. I mean, can't Okay, so like the first item says a Vicata CH52E outdoor multi-ensor camera blot. Can't you just take off the ricotta spec and say outdoor multi-ensor camera lens blah blah blah? You can. You have to get into like refresh rate, if there's a microphone, resolution, all that stuff has to be kind of speced out for each one. I mean, even just call out for kata. I'm sure every ADP guy knows exactly what his equivalent camera is to that. Well, and the other question I have with the bid package in general is should we be bidding the product and the install and then the service plan separately? So the way it's set up is it's for one year service and if we want it to do more and if there's a better we can we can always change that but for the first year it's always just one year. They probably want to be have that so that um there might be tweaks and bugs that they have to work out and well and you pay per device generally um on the cloud. Um, so that's kind of set up and if we want to do it, we we they shared a spec sheet for the licenses. There's a little bit of a break if you go out for three or five or 10 years. Um, I'd have Brian look at that to see if it's worth it or not. You know, to see if we want to go year to year. But, um, you know, I think I think the basis of this is, you know, police kind of run this. They want this system, the Vicata system. They're familiar with it. There's value to that. We're kind of in a pickle because we didn't maintain it. Um, it's end of life. We're kind of playing with fire a little bit. So, there's a little urgency there. But, if we want to go out and go out and look at ADP, Stanley, USA Security, I think there's one more major vendor. Um, we could do that. It just would take a little bit more time to develop the the bid package and we I'd say authorize me to get somebody on board to do that. Would there be saving? Is there training savings by going for fkata versus switching or is that usually included in the install price? It's pretty small in the whole package. Um, but there's probably some familiarity with the software, but the software is going to completely change too. Yeah, I was going to say it's kind of like system, right? I mean, it's the same company, but it's a whole new system. Everything is being replaced. Different software for sure. It's been learning. We have to go out make a little bit more of an effort to spend our money as wisely as possible. Okay. So then you want to authorize um Jasper to find somebody to put together a bid package. Is that Well, do we have to do a bid package or can we reach out to the vendors and say come tell us what you think we should do. Yeah. Because they can educate us. We could do an RF RFQ or an RFP process. Um Madame Mayor, who do you want them to present to? The city council or to the police? Madame Mayor. Well, so if the police need certain cameras or certain things to meet state guidelines, then they're going to have to be involved in that decision as well. Madam Mayor, last bid. It from what I can gather staff got the quotes, provided a comparison to the council. Council made the decision and went with the lowest vote. Great. That's what we did in 201. Okay. Well, let's um let's see if we can But the it was under the threshold back then. Back in the day, right? Yeah. Right. I think they're going to have to raise a threshold. So, um we're not going to approve this tonight. So, um so you're going to have to be okay. Jasper has to bring somebody on board or or do some homework and figure out an RFP, a RFQ, whatever you want to Well, I guess I need direction if we're going to do an RF, request for qualifications, request for proposals, or just bid. And I would say proposals and see what's there. request for Well, that'll that'll that'll als be okay with the possibility that what we currently have might fail, right? Because if we go and do the RF RFQ process and then we have to go go do the bid process, that just adds more time. I thought, and maybe I read it wrong, that there was some urgency to get this done. If that's no longer the case, then yeah, we can definitely do it that way. I just want to make sure you're aware of just the timeline. This probably pushes it to maybe a, you know, probably a end of project date of December. I'd say January one, early, something like that is where we're at. So, um, which is perfectly fine. I mean, we can we can do that. I don't know what the I'm guessing it'll be probably. So, we have we have no idea what other vendors or what what some if you know versus 265 is it really going to be a whole lot less? I mean, um, Oh, Sarah. Yeah. Can you hear me? Oh, sorry. That's my bad. Hold on. Hi, Sarah. Hi. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Sorry about that. I was trying to speak up earlier. Um, Madame Mayor, members of the council, this is a project that would be over 175,000. We are required to competitively bid it. That means, you know, we can have somebody write the specs and they can write the specs very specifically if we want or we can have them write them more broadly. Um, but whatever comes back, you're you're stuck with the lowest bidder. So, keep that in mind. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, I mean, there is a thing you can do something called best value contracting, which actually kind of seems like what the road you're trying to head down here, but you do need to have a staff member trained in that. And I don't know if the city has anybody trained in best value contracting, but in that case, you can issue it's called a request for proposals. And then you can actually pick the the system that's best for the city, and you don't have to pick the lowest um the lowest bid. You can actually look at the features and decide, well, this these people have the best system for us. So, I mean, that might be an option you might want to look into. It's just a matter of if the city has anybody trained to to do best value contracting. I don't think we currently do, not that I'm aware of. Well, the main thing I think lowest responsible bid if someone comes in and bids 180 but has very little experience in it, you can still take the 230 bit, you know, or there's some c, you know, provisions we do have that we don't have to get just stuck with someone if they're qualified or something or it's a pretty high threshold. I mean, I've litigated it a couple times, so I I wouldn't want to go down the road of, oh, we didn't like the one camera they had, so they're not responsible. We're going to take the, you know, the second low bidder. Um, we don't want to go down that road. So, Sarah, I think what I'm hearing you say is we should go out for bid, but we need to be real specific as to what we want. And if that's the case, then let's use this to go out for bid and and see what comes back. Otherwise, we might end up what what I'm concerned about is that we're going to end up with something that we we that isn't going to fit correct. That that's so and I have no idea in terms of security systems and cameras. Um I I don't know anything about them. So if the police are saying that they're um familiar with this system and they've been using it, um my guess would be that this system would be a good system would be a good system. I mean, but if you guys want to do it differently, that's okay. But then be prepared like Sarah said. So it's a lot of money. Yeah, it is. It is. How come we didn't have to go out? Like so when it came here, this is for Sarah. Um when we had it brought to us at the March work session, there was no mention about needing to go out to forbid then. So because nobody asked me. I think I said it had to go out. I think since it was above 175, we did say it had to go out for bed. Well, no. I mean, you weren't asking for like the original work session notes weren't asking for approval to go up for bid. It was do you want to fund it this way or this way? Like at no point in the notes did it say we have to go out for bid no matter what. Well, I think we talked about it if I if I recall. If we didn't, I mean, it maybe was assumed or whatever, but but we definitely have to go forbidden. I mean at this you guys we we we have to go out for bid I think. Okay, that's been established on the you want to do you want to do this? I think you should have other vendors come in and pitch to us. Well, we don't we don't want them to pitch. We can't we can't we can't do that. We can't have vendors just come in and say, "Here's what I I don't think we can. We can't do an RFQ, right? I think they can." Yeah. One one thing you could do is you could just say, "Hey, we're thinking of getting a new security system, have vendors come in and pitch their systems to you and then after that decide, okay, you want to go with this type of system and then bid that out and then just specify that system similar to what you're doing with this picata. you know, specify that in the in the bid documents. So, that would give you some time to explore what the I guess the different features are, but you'd have to probably pick one at the end. Otherwise, you'd be stuck with the lowest one and you might not like what the lowest one is, right? Yeah. So, like I guess that's what I'm saying like reach out to vendors say, "We're thinking about replacing our security system. What do you offer?" And I guess have them make a sales pitch of why we should go with their product. Okay. So, we can do that. So, we can do that. But, correct me if I'm wrong. This isn't to replace the entire system. This is to integrate our old system and get new equipment on an updated server. So, it's like integrating, right? I think that's part of it's almost like Yeah, it is. It's almost like a maintenance project that just never happened. Um, and that's where it gets a little touchy, but because it's so expensive because we've waited so long, we have to bid it. Um, so I think that's clear. Then that's the challenge, right? Do we want to get into a different system or are we okay? I think we're okay with the system we have. So that's why the verata is being recommended. Why don't we do this? Why don't we see if we can find another um different manufacturer, whatever rep, let's just say repping a different one, have them come in and present and if they can give us a highlevel idea as to what it would cost. I mean, not a full bid, just say something like this, what you're looking at. um it's going to be, you know, 200 or something. Then we could decide if we want to bid it how we're going to go out and bid it. Would that you know what I'm saying? Then we can decide, okay, we're going to bid it out this way or we're going to bid it out that way. But I what I'm a little leerary about is having three or four come in and having to go through that because now we're talking three or four months go by before we can even put it out for bid. Now we're looking at, you know, probably March of next year before we can get it installed. You know, if we have to wait another two or three or four months before we can put this out for bid, that's my that's a concern. Yeah. And that that is valid. I mean, and we can do it. Um, I still think to to to tell like ADT or Stanley what we actually need. Um, there's like some technical stuff that's been done by USA Security because they obviously know our system because they they currently maintain it. Um, and they're supporting it. I'm not sure if that's okay to give to ADT or Stanley or if they want to do their own thing or if there needs to be a third party involved with that because there's things that that a that USA Security have that, you know, they maybe know some some things about that they're not including in in some of their stuff they give us because they they're already supporting the system. They don't need to know certain things. But if they're just looking at a piece of paper, Stanley, you know, they might need more a more robust kind of description of what what they're actually going to give us a number for if it's going to be accurate. So, how many companies are what are we talking about? Three or four. Three or four. Can you bring two of them in um to talk to us to tell us what they would do? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, they can just do the same sales pitch the USA security guy did. Like, here's what we would recommend. Mhm. I I think so. I think the the piece that might be missing from that high level discussion is a cost. And if that's really important, it sounds like that's important to the group is the actual cost of what this other system might might be. I don't know if if that'll give the group enough information if you don't know that number, which I don't know if they would wouldn't they so they wouldn't be able to if you if you invited them in before the work session and talked to them and they kind of looked at everything and they could put together some kind of presentation and say for for this this is what we're looking at. This is what we would recommend and we're looking approximately at this number. And then we knowing that because it's going to be more than the 175, it would still have to go out for bid. I think that definitely they could re work with staff. I think it'll be probably a couple days of staff time to with each vendor. I mean, we spent I think a couple days with with Chris and he knows the system just to get this dialed in. Well, that's where that's where I think there's some benefit to just saying here are the specs and them and then when they have questions then they'll give us an actual number if that's that's specs maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you can give them these specs. Um there they might not know where this you know where the south water tower is or you know oh the treatment plant. So you got to you got to build in some maps. You got to build in those types of things so they can they know where these are. Some of these areas don't have network connections, so we need to have WiFi modems there. So, um I don't know. I if if you just want to look at like what a system can offer, sure, they can come in. But if you want to actually get a number that's associated with that system, then you got to at least have an idea of what you're going to ask for, you know? Yeah, I get it. So, which I'm all we can do either either one, but I think if I think there's more value if we develop specs, have ADT, Stanley, USA Security look at it, and then um give us an actual number like kind of go off for bids. How long would it take to do a um specs and do you know what the cost would be? I'm I don't I don't know exactly. I'm guessing probably in that $5,000 range, you know, five to five to 10. I'll put that out there. I don't know. Um, but just to do a spec sheet. Yeah. Why why would that cost so much to do a spec sheet? Well, it it'll I mean be pretty robust spec sheet, bid documents, all that. Um, I don't know. That's just my guess. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm shooting high. I don't know. But I don't want to say 500 bucks and it comes in at No, it's it's going to be more than that. Um, and I don't even know who to ask. So that there's that piece, too. So, do we get a I don't know, an engineer? I I'm not sure. But I'm sure Chris um the USA security guy that we know that we work with right now might have somebody or suggestions. So um Okay. Okay. So it sounds like we want to I I mean if I'm reading the room I think there's some value in knowing the number along with yeah the system because if you you just have the system like everything is going to look nice and new and shiny and great. Um, but we don't know if it's a half a million dollar system or a quarter million dollar system or, you know, we just don't know that. And, you know, you might really like this one system that doesn't have a number associated with it, but it's out of our price range. So, so we've talked about this enough that I'm totally confused. So the original this proposal uh that we were going to vote on why isn't that going out for bid just because it's repair of the system? Is that the It is going out for bid. So So what's it could go out for bid? That's what we're recommending. It goes out for bid, but it's bidding out the Vcata system. Just just the VCA system. There's four vendors that'll offer other hardware and software solutions. So they would bid against each other. They would. Yep. So if we want to get those other vendors involved, we definitely if you want So what we have in the packet right now would be a a bid packet, if you will, that would go to the Vicata the companies that sell Vicata and install them. Now, if you want to do um a a broader one, then we have to hire somebody to put together a bid package with the items that we need or want or need. They would have to know all of they would have to know where everything has to go because this includes the water towers, the treatment plants, the public um the police department, and all of that. And then they'd have to put this package together and then put it out to bid and and it would specify what I again I'm not I'm not an engineer but can't we just have them bid and see what it looks like you know see if they really are going to compete against each other. Well that's what Sarah is telling us and and she's correct. She's right. So when you go when it's more than 175,000 it has to be apples to apples. So, in other words, you have to put together a bid package so that when people bid it, they're bidding the same the same thing. They might bid a different um they might bid a Motorola um camera with um pixels or whatever. You know what I'm saying? With 100 pixels, whatever it is, but it's going to be comparable to the one that Vakata is going to do. So, but if not, they could come in and they could bid a camera that's half of what this camera is. But didn't we say we could take the best value option or whatever that Well, um, it's really hard to say a bidder is not responsible. So, that threshold is very, very high. They have to almost be, you know, negligent. You might have to have some history with them, I think. So, it's very hard to say, oh, you know, you're not a responsible bidder if we don't have good evidence of that, which we don't have a lot of experience with camera systems. So, personally, like I think it would be hard for us to say, ADT, you're not a responsible bidder, right? Because they're they're responsible. They're a responsible company. This is what we're going to do. I'm going to ask staff, no, I'm going to ask staff to come back and tell us what it's going to cost to hire somebody to put together a bid package. Okay? They're going to bring it back at our next work session in May. They're going to say, "Here's what it's going to cost to put together a bid package." And then um then we can decide is it worth the 5,000 or 10,000 or 20 whatever it's going to cost. And then um maybe in the meantime we can kind of mle a few other things over and you can bring back. So let's do that in um at a May work session. Bring back and let us know what it would cost to put a bid package together. Okay. Can Sorry. Can we ask other vendors to come in and just present what they think we would need? We definitely can. Do you expect to get a estimate? I guess that's the question. I think Josh was saying to get a number, they need spec. Right. Right. But if they come in and, you know, they look around or whatever and they're like, "Okay, well, you need this, you need this." Like, you know, these people do this for a living. They're salesmen. They should be able to give you a rough estimate of what it would cost to do something. I mean, I would assume not really because we're also we have numerous locations. That's the other glitch cuz we have, you know, three water towers and two treatment plants and um and I don't know what else they Right. But I mean like other cities do this. I mean it's it's one of See what you can find. What is if you can find out if if um yeah, find out if who else could come at that meeting cuz I don't want to delay it too long. I really don't. I I think we need it sooner than later. And so see if Stanley or USA or whatever if they want to come. Yeah. Well, we heard from USA security. I don't know if you want that. I mean, you can have them come back in. That was the Chris Daniels. That's who we currently have supporting it. But um yeah, I'll look. I just did a quick Google and you know Stanley ADT there's a couple other ones Ram Romulus I don't know we'll I'll reach out to a bunch see if we can get them to to show up and just give us a high level um okay between now and then though I'm not sure you know I'm not sure what Craig's schedule is or it might have to be the second meeting in May or the first Yeah. I don't want to have to walk around with Craig. They're gonna have to walk around with Gary or uh Randy to just see what's go out there. Okay. Okay, that's what we're going to do. All right. Um, so then we'll move on to business items and that is um the opposition to HF 4124 and SF4689. That's a homeowners association reform bills. And Jesper, yeah, I can give a brief overview on this. These are a couple bills. I think they were mentioned a little bit during the chicken discussion about how the the Minnesota legislature has some things in the mix to potentially either remove some of the well from on the HO HOA CIC common interest community um side. They want to remove some of the ability to to charge their residents or their people in their homeowners association certain amounts of money and limit what they can actually have control over. Um, on the city side, the big part is that they don't want to um they want to limit our ability or remove our ability to make people have an HOA. So, you know, that's a big part of what we do. If there's a a planned unit development and there's, you know, storm water ponds, things like that that need to get maintained by the group. That's why the HOAs, it's one of one of the reasons why. The other are the common areas, some of the parks, some of the, you know, monument locations, those all have to be maintained by the HOAs. So this bill or these bills, their companion bills um are are going through through the through the Senate and the House. They either remove that or are very limited on the HOA CIC side. So what this resolution does is say that we do not agree with that and we want to let our legislators know. Um, similar to the the housing bill resolution we passed, the last one, if if approved, we would send this to the League of Minnesota Cities um main um lobbyist, Daniel Lightoot. He would use this and say, "Hey, I got I got a city that doesn't want this." So, um there there's some recent developments. Um some of the language has been struck regarding cities, but still that can always be brought back at a certain time. So, so passing something something like this would, you know, solidify our position on it and we can share that. So, I'll entertain any questions. I think we would have again it's just local control over local issues, you know, so I don't think we have to discuss it for an hour. So, go ahead, send the letter. Well, we we should vote on it. All right. All right. Yeah. So, um would you like to pass resolution um number 43-25 in opposition of the House and the Senate um homeowners association reform bills? So moved. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Miss Lacy. All right, any further questions? All those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes 50. Now, staff reports. We have um next Monday we have a planning commission meeting. You were Miss Lacy, you were going to be there. Uh yes, I am. I'm going to be No one else can be there. We do parks meeting as well. And we have a parks meeting in May. It would they rescheduled it for 6 p.m. on the same day. On the same day. Okay. Do Do you want to go to both? Oh, I'd love to. Okay. So, Miss Laser will be at both the parks commission at 6 and at the planning, planning commission at 7. And then, um Okay. Any I don't have anything. Okay. Then, uh just a reminder, we have the state of the city address on the 29th at Burl Oaks starting at 5:30. 5:30. 5:30. There'll be light refreshments and there will be a cash bar. Um I always say that you have the uh recycling cleanup day will be before our next council meeting or May 3rd. May 3rd, right? And then also coming up then after that would be May 17th. Trista Days Trista Days. And then we are also um uh going to have the bus tour again. So if you would like to participate, please sign up and let Ally know. Is registration for the bus tour open? I opened it to people who signed up last year. Okay. Cancel. That's right. Okay. Wonderful. All right. And it's always a lot of fun. You know, we have fun here. So, we'll have fun on the bus tour. Um, so, uh, that's that's all. And we've been attending the fire meetings and, um, let's see what else. I know there were a lot of meetings. Um, but I have I I have a little bit of a report. Yes. So, um again, I got to hear um Chief Farnia speak at the WCC meeting and he was telling us that they, you know, they've got these um raised cameras that very clearly show people driving with their knees watching, you know, television or watching their phones that the the the occurrence of um accidents because of distracted I mean it's skyrocketed and um they can very clearly see you know people saying I wasn't holding my phone they can see you clearly holding your phone and it's not uh you know it can be um it can be in a little they actually yeah but they can tell it can digitally see if your eyes are down I mean it's it's really high tech and so um you know it made an impact on me like I mean I really now I put my phone in my back seat because it's tempting you know to answer that call or to whatever. So really he said I was surprised to hear the chief of oro say um you know be careful who you vote for because they people will have multiple um offenses and they're just let you know there's no there's no punishment. Wow. So, we really want to be tough on distracted driving because it kills people. Yeah, it does. More so now than impaired driving. And I think on Highway 7 there's this big Yes, that's it. Yes. And that's that's a camera and that's I think part of the Highway 7 uh safety um thing. So, do you want to say anything about that? Um yeah, there's uh there's actually an enforcement action that'll be coming up in the next week, I believe, where a lot of uh our partnership agencies will be on Highway 7. So, yep, that uh the device is near South Lake, and it can definitely we would call plain view in law enforcement. It's not, you know, it's not looking for anything other than distractive driving. Um but yes, and that uh the the video would go to officers nearby who then see it on their phone and uh then they make the traffic stop. Yep. Yep. And I' I've seen people look at their phone while they're But I mean it's it's amazing. I've seen people and then the law has been the law for a number of years that you can't be on your phone while you're driving and yet I see people frequently like you know it's like no no do not be on your phone when you're driving. Yeah. Especially Oh and and kids I I just Yeah. Anyhow. Yeah. So anyway, that's that. Anything? Uh well, I just found out uh that uh the second uh alum treatment for the whale tail is is postponed until 2026. Okay. Did well. It went really well. Uh the first one they were really excited about that. But there's only one company in the country that does that. Oh, no. looked up. So, um but Brian from Three Rivers said that actually he thought it would probably extend the life of the uh treatment treatment and um actually the Henipin counties or they're thinking of taking it off the state is thinking of taking it off the impaired list probably in a couple years. They have to you know get some data on it and it may even uh be the sec you know there are two parts to mail. uh it flows the treatments in one that then flows into the other and that one may uh qualify as to take off the list too. Oh, okay. That'd be huge. So, it would pretty excited. Um and then Jasper did send out letters to people around Oxoke Lake to start a citizen uh kind of monitoring that lake. Nobody's been monitoring it and so it's just kind of a start to maybe treating it, you know, years in the future. They haven't gotten any response. Yeah, I know. They have to go door to door on that. Oh, no. Anyway, okay. On the uh watershed district. Thank you. We have a cheat sheet on what they'd have to do. It's not much. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I can send that to you. I can I'll I I'll send you the letter that went out to the residents. Yeah, that would be good. Just copy us. Send it to the Yeah, I don't. But I I go down that road. My sister-in-law lives on the end. I visit her quite often and she I could just go up the driveway. Can I do that? And say, "Hey, would you consider doing this?" There's only a few houses that are kind of right on the water. Right. Right. And you need a boat and you need a canoe or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Any anything else? Otherwise, they want chickens. Do you want chickens on a property here? All right. With that, we are done with our business items. Is there a motion to adjurnn? Well, second. Miss Revkin made that motion and Miss Lacy seconded that. We're having so much fun. All those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes 50. Thank you. And we will see you in in May on the 29th, right? You guys are adorable. You're adorable. And I'll see you tomorrow morning. What are we doing tomorrow? When am I going to this thing? See you tomorrow morning. 9:00. When is that planning? Is it next Monday? Yes, it's Monday.