thank you all right I'm I'm going to call the meeting to order this is the work session um meeting for an interest March 17 2025 um pres our this evening we have a um assistant City administrator we have director of Public Works G Peters alany is with WSB our city engineer here and then council president we have H Brad we have a new name you have a new name we have Brian govern and um say la iset vi is and kathin is here I'm here and then we have J cral and Brian grim and then also sitting in for chief PA this evening is Deputy Chief right Squire so with that we have three items I believe on our agenda where first to talk about the USA Security paration and then Milo training system and then our 2026 Street Improvement projects so with that I'll it over to CH thank you mayor way rest the city council um as the mayor mayor said we have three items on the agenda the first one is the um security and key key card access system that we have we currently uh have a system not exactly uh the the best quality I guess technology has increased significantly since 2016 running into some issues with our our server being end of life software being end of life those types of things so um essentially the goals of tonight regarding this is uh we'd like direction from City Council on how to proceed um there's a couple different options we can we can pair this with a uh Bond sale as an equipment certificate um this year with the water treatment plant we can do it next year with a road project likely I I'm kind of maybe jumping to conclusion but likely the recommendation would be an equipment certificate for something like this um a couple of uh additional things that you know we' be securing some of our water um infrastructure sites that that currently don't have this technology there so um there's a couple different things here um we have a couple different Representatives here today that uh have a little presentation to talk you through what we have what we're recommending um to be uh rep the current system to be replaced with so with that I'll I'll have Chris Daniels come up here and uh um Ally if you can queue up his um what he got I think this is your screen here isn't it I believe that's your screen right there you can try it again um she'll share her screen again think we're quote organizers now so I think that can no neither her or I can share screens that's all good let me see here so this is your screen you just want to open it on yeah one second Now give me a second e right right here did you put that in that folder Alie okay cool bear with me you got one more minute okay give me one second I don't why it's also sharing alley screen no that's me oh that's you you got it he's got it already look at this watch this had to hit a button all right yeah we're recording thank you so much for having me today um I'm Chris Daniels I'm with USA Security um I was here in N years ago and did this presentation for a whole different full people it was more than years was right right night okay okay I R with r Mar is the software and Hardware package that I would like to talk to you about or or recommendation um as we kind of move through where you guys are right now so surveillance and security up update path for the city no all right yeah there we go so 2016 we started working with you guys uh USA Security we we were hired by the city under uh Chief W Falls to re you have a very very very old an equated access control video system so we upgraded that brought that to digital a 32 terb video server with expansion or future expansion which ironically you guys never took advantage of um we haven't added improv to that since since 201 16 there's some weird years on here so try to keep this brief but just show you where we are in 2016 Microsoft was running Windows Server 2012 which was was on that machine to L in 2023 so I can't do anything with Windows Server 2012 which you got you guys purchased a vigilon Access Control software that's ACC version 5 that was in life in 2018 um so what we did for you guys was regular maintenance and repair upon request but anytime it was discussed to maybe do some of these updates along with camera purchases that never was never went further than discussion so your video service is kind of in a time capsule right now um fast forward to now why are we here right now both Public Safety and City Hall have some cameras that are down and also cameras that are just not performing at all and both got together and reached out hey can you look at um replacing some of these cameras so that's how we got down this this road um also there's some pending doc regulations that PD isn't going to be to achieve with the current camera system so you bring those things together it's time for a refresh so I came out in January we looked at some camera improvements um analog cameras which currently have are becoming harder and harder to find almost impossible to find and your current video system can't put new cameras on it because as we said the software to Tool so where are we we're in a replace mode and that's what I want to talk to you about tonight it's what's the way to go um so weing with W Chief Squires and Alli we put together kind of okay we got to replace the server and we have all these very old cameras what should we do well let's just do a quick Thum roll to replace all that with digital and modern and that came out to $114,000 and Al now on the same track of you guys are moving everything to the cloud anyway what would it look like to just do these cameras at these two buildings just on the cloud distructor Paris so that's what the system that $19,000 just as a purely looking at just getting your video systems up to date nothing else what that's come into is what we what we're talking about now is full Citywide so with I'll get to the I can show you some of this um with the surveillance upgrade we can bring the camera we can bring the cameras and the access control into the same platform so the people who operate front desks can see the camera in in the car you're at the same time letting people in you can do it remotely um for water treatment plant we can tie in the alarms or sensors into the cameras as well so it takes your system for right now you have two or three different systems and it turns it into one system that anybody who has loging can operate Cross Way cleaner to use way easier to use longterm uh we easier to expand so moving off of a server system one of the downfalls of a server system like you guys have now is you have a single point of failure which if this thing goes down the whole system goes down which can starts at like $220,000 and depending on our scalability could be a much more expensive piece of Hardware so we want to get rid of that as liability excuse me that's one of the spots we in LPD where if that server goes down today they do not have a camera system over dep um and we would be on a laner system and place system where we are they're going to be operating for weeks without a camera system and and moving to a cloud system would eliminate that potential in the future so in a cloudbased system there's no Central Hardware everything is it own so every camera has its own onboard storage the access control panels live uh the data lives on the panel it communicates VI Cloud interface so if any one piece of that system goes down you only lose that piece get out it where as you sit right now uh you have an end life server on your whole C system for the city um so as we looked at okay if we are going to do the full City what else might we want to do Public Works doesn't have anything water treatment only has car readers but no cameras none of the well houses or water towers have access control or cameras uh DHS is going to start to get far more involved in water towers and water treatment centers um so along with Doc RS that are coming down while nothing's been in concrete yet we're anticipating a lot more DHS RS too and so this will get you guys ahead of that um and those starts come down by now adding card access intercoms and surveillance to those water towers also included in this we uh reached out to AP AP APS a2s a2s about your skus system at the water treatment and water towers to see if we can piggyback on that for data um we cannot so included here is also LTE service for those um for the wellhouse and the water towers so that that data can get to the Cloud without you guys having to bring designated Internet to the into the L so it's full package U breakdown here of what each building would be independently uh with a bundle for a savings in total a little bit more about just kind of where you guys are where we want to go for for those of you that interested this is but you have now cameras running to servers with with tons and tons of storage and then we've got to get that both online and offline it becomes quite a bit to manage both from a hardware cost standpoint and from it standpoint where with going to a cloud system uh specifically the kind of system that we want to talk about um the devices are Cloud native you plug them in and you guys can operate them from any body so it's app based and browser based so weog special software to do it like you do now so far more responsive for PD in an emergency if something happens and they're not at PD they can still get video um Can equip officers with an app for mobile device as well you can see what's happening in community longer term this isn't anything you talked about but it came up earli with road projects we do work with city of aonia uh there doing a major downtown Improvement project on the streets where they want to put Cs on the intersections some of their major streets with this F system becomes very easy to do that because you don't have proper power and data we solar and we do LT po so um it's very easy to expand this you don't have to think about what's everything we might want to do today this is a very expandable perspective so it set you up for the next 10 years in a way that the last time we did this did not um so just some future proof thing like I said we're going to extend coverage to Public Works water treatment and water towers pending DLC regulations for low light no light 4 megapixel minimum which you guys do not have Now privacy masking and then blind spot so like we have a uh we have a demo camera going right now in one of the holding rooms where previously it's a corner camera so if you're too close to the wall we can you can hide from the camera we've got a fishy in there same in the booking room you have a table in that b room right now where you could potentially be off camera uh we're going to do fish eyes in there so 100% coverage in all the rooms toly the OC rags and then further down the line I don't think this is Stone but uh there's conversation about migrating a different version of body camera and this ricado platform integrates with that body camera video Evol for custody so from again from a PD future proof e standpoint um we're looking Beyond Today Beyond tomorrow but for the next three five 10 years with the system I can dive deeper into the software if you'd like I can dive deeper into some of the layouts of the buildings if you like or I can just answer questions or I can do whatever you guys want me to do from here questions for system with the set $30,000 is that set up the that be the thatly so I can show you this um so there's there's licenses this is data LT data as well this is this is LTE data built in and I'll I'll add we have our we have a well you don't really like first net after talking to me but we have we have a contract with first net which we could integrate into this system and probably get a little bit better deal you could but I think we get preferred pricing for for what they would use it for yeah so this is right now kind of based on what we've put together the are we have one three five year licensing options every so there's a license for the mic uh every camera every car reader every interon um you guys have Panic Hardware here so the alarm and then the LT data packages for the the two water towers and the wellhouse so are you saying we would pay 285 every year and and then you'd pay $249 be your licing so the initial upon the initial purchase then your renewals would be these would be your renewal options for software coverage per year so You' be at either 28 a year or 73 every three years or 120 every five years okay with these being licensed if uh like strikes one or gets damaged is that AR repair or is that all yeah so I I knew that but I was sure so you know one of the one of the advantages the system you guys have now is a is a motor system it's five years because they're it's a Del server Rand through Motorola most of this Hardware on Prem server basis do not know one's going to warranty that five years it's end life in like four uh but as Ryan said what's awesome about is all the hardware is a 10e license so anything happens to that piece of Hardware you call USA Security you come get it box it up open up an r in continue one it's covered as long as it's license it's covered so this becomes also your warranty package so you're and you're not getting they're on version they were on they just released their Series 3 cameras six years from now they're not going to be on Series 3 and the camera goes down you're getting version whatever vers we're not dig into the archives and find an old camera we're going to give you the current one so what's an upgrade path too keeps you current how long has this business been around for Server um I guess whoever be back in the background we started in 2016 right so as long as your camera systems been here okay well my only concern is sure you see in the media where you buy something the Spotify car thing back in y um so in I I've been in the security industry for 20 years if something happened with forado where they got weak enough that that was a problem someone would buy them Motorola would buy them or would buy them or would buy them or Scher electric would buy them I don't I can't tell you it's not going to happen but it would be wildly lik right yeah and we're actually considered one of the fastest growing security companies in the world because we started in 2016 we're already a white company um so we've had tremendous growth and it's because we have a different approach where they not on PR Cloud connected it's future through and just to add what Chris said regarding licensing terms for your 10-year warranty but also because it's always connected your system is going to continually get better better receive any firmware updates that release not pay wall behind features your system is going to continue to improve like your phone getting updates some cars get updates your security system will get updates what other countries we are worldwide we're in London we have OB in London Mexico Taiwan full AG we have businesses that we work with and cities we work with all around why R versus another provider um so our company we represent we have three Cloud options we Mora we have Pro we have rata verata is they're already so far ahead of the other two in terms of full integration and full offering that they're the only one I can come up here and tell you you're going to get One login your users are going to get One login and it's going to give you your access your video your alarms your intercoms your cellular if we were to go to things like Vape sensors and some public spaces anything that we could put on the system it's One login if I were to tell you that with r you need a dashboard for this you need a different dashboard for this you need a different dashboard for this these don't talk to each other properly they're just that much further ahead of the game I also because I do sell all three of them I know who's where and I already these guys are pretty bad to get on what a motor is cu motor is less expensive but I didn't want I didn't want want to come in with an inferior product when I knew a superior product existed and so I I gotam I said Hey listen this is what M put in price for this product so you guys get there and not there and so I when it's when all things are equal rata is clear the head and shoulder's choice and I can give in some of this like to but it really is it's they make all the products so on like a rhus or a motor rollup they're going to say um well we integrate with this other product but it's a whole another vendor and if somebody changes a firmware or a software then the integration is broken and then you have users in front desk who are used to something working a certain way and where because rata makes all the products and the backend integration is the same across it's uh they're not going to make they're not going to update on intercom and not have it work with the camera because they manuf they don't have they're they're beholding to their entire stack where if I'm roll I just have my camera and my car access but I third party in this intercom well I don't really have to know oh shoot they did an update now I can fix it where for it's all the same backing so they don't have to worry about me but I guess my my bigger question is cost yeah well and for the amount of money I would expect us to get some FS from some other companies and just to you know price it out make sure that everyone's in the same ball car everyone's offing the same level not close to getting a new system and building the budget a lot more options absolutely and um you know the the initial goal of today is just to bring this to your attention it might be new to some of you um it was kind of new to me when this was brought to my attention probably four months ago three four months ago so we had to move fairly quickly it's somewhat concerning but um really if the direction is to continue down this path um as far as the financing piece goes I think I talked about that um likely an equipment certificate in 25 or 26 um as far as quoting goes I believe I was talking to Chris a little bit about this beforehand about how they did this in 2016 they actually helped build the the bid package because somebody we need an expert to help with a B bid package and there aren't many vendors out there so somebody we have to build build a bid package based on what kind of we want and then get it out to the vendors um and if it's a bid or a quote you know we have to determine that um I'll work with Sarah on that if that's the direction um because it's existing equipment um but I agree we should get some additional quotes just to make sure everything's in the ballpark um making sure things are apples to apples is is the big big piece and we'd likely have to tap into somebody else maybe like Chris's group to help with that um unless there's an expert on city council I'm not an expert on camera technology but you know that's the biggest thing that I I um fear is somebody coming in lowballing and then we get have to make it up and it's the same for a less Superior product over the license fee you know something like that so we have to look at it You' have to compare we'd have to look at it all all encompassing yep so um but if that's the direction we can start putting that together and then bring that to a future city council meeting I think we we do I mean I think we owe it to the public because it's a big expend yeah that's a big and you know I think I think a lot of our residents would say well what you only you just took this I me you know so I think we do have to go out a bit and see see what's out there and try and maybe it won't be Apples to Apples but then we can compare and see what we want and then if we do go with your proposal we can say well this is why we went with you um but I think we need a few more nums but um this is very interesting um eye opening and I guess my my recommendation is let's try and do this sooner than later and then if we're going to do this then we should do it this year in B do an equipment certificate with our um with our street project or water treatment plant if we can and then maybe we can also wrap the um lece um issue or my little thing the next thing we're GNA talk about okay yeah yeah there's a couple unbudgeted items we're talking about tonight so um we want to make sure you know it's okay to budget for these in 2026 but if the camera you know we want to make sure we have a contingency plan if the server goes down and that costs money and we might end up getting the same thing but costing you know might cost more it might be an emergency um that's why I'm saying so we we'll start working on it on it and hopefully we can get it up in money for a new system whatever that is Maybe by June or July um I guess that's question for you if we go with you what is the installation dur around time so from from equipment procurement standpoint uh to getting on site with probably 10 weeks out and then onsite this project we are probably I'm just going to kind of invol work this here I that we're going to be on site for 4 six weeks so final so for 10 10 11 weeks out say 17 weeks from approval to completion probably and then if we B it's generally 3 weeks 21 days so I'll build that in and that's what I'm saying September yeah we can put everything together yeah okay so so we should get a move on it then all right maybe see you back here all right anything else not yet all right thank you very much really appreciate it thank you next time I won't take your spot all right next we have than Milo training system yeah I'll uh mayor city council I can introduce this a little bit but this is this has been an ongoing um kind of brainstorming session that we've had we've had a couple different touch points with the the gun range discussion here since I've been here almost three years now um and we've kind of put that to bed and and you task Craig and Paul to come up with an idea of how we can UTI ize that space to to train our officers in a in a pretty Advanced way um Craig came up with the idea with this Milo it's something that's been used in the law enforcement um arena for quite some time um the space is also challenging for a Milo system if you can imagine that too as as well as a gun range so um what we have uh presented and this is kind of our best best shot at what we can utilize that space for right now it's kind of a hybrid um do we oh we need to I can share this a little bit now I think we got the I think we got the Powerpoint figured out so um we don't really have much to present on this though but in the packet you can kind of see what what's going on but the Milo system would would take up roughly about a third of the space and the rest would be for storage we'd have an access door on the storage side that the police could access from the parking garage um of which we could get a forklift in there and move things onto a pallet system um onto a shelving system so that that'd be ideal they they definitely need storage Craig can definitely speak to this a little bit a little bit more um but and then the the Milo space would would um be configured after the construction so there's a couple things going on we we received this public safety money I believe in 2023 yeah right at the end of right at the end of the year in 2023 we allocated roughly Brian will know the numbers but roughly half of it towards Capital 70,000 Capital the other 200,000 to operation to operation so um we had 170,000 we've we've used some uh of that Capital to purchase some things already um the current balance of that is about 116 um, the idea that's been presented in this is to do um the construction work which we've gotten one estimate at about 140,000 I'd say that's probably a pretty or pretty conservative estimate um I think we could probably get it down through various means to about 116 so um you know Craig can get into the details of the actual system but for financing piece um we could look at using that Public Safety money to get the construction done and then city council could decide if they want to proceed with the Milo system and the outfitting of the storage area with the shelving um we could we could attach that to an equipment certificate in 2022 with the water treatment plant or 202 or 2025 with the water treatment plan or 2026 with the road project so it's all about timing these are big numbers right we're coming to you with um just over half a million dollars of unbudgeted expend expenditures I don't generally like to do this this is something that's been in the hopper we kind of have this public safety money that we had an idea that we were going to do something so this is the idea for that um so it's really do you like that idea for that space to me it there's a lot of value in occupying all the square footage at that at that facility um you get a really good training atmosphere for the for the officers something that they don't have access to right now really anywhere in the region other than I think maybe um can tell us it'd be interesting to see what what is this system and how does it work and how fun is it absolutely thank you mad May counil You' absolutely be invited on day one and uh and we we' love to get as many people through it and not to get too far and myself but it would definitely be a good tool for the public to see want to bring the public in put them through some scenar and whatnot so yeah as as uh Jasper mentioned we're very short on Space um we're great very grateful for our gym but that took up our store space so now we're kind of shoving stuff in into the shell of the gun range um as it is now but it it's just doesn't look pery you can make it look a lot better um as for the gun Ridge was a great idea it's just not quite big enough to be a very viable gun range and a gun range itself years ago we estimated at half a million and with inflation I can't imagine what a range would be and then your ongoing cost of um a lot of EPA stuff of Leed your hbags got to be very Advanced um and just the fact that ammunition so expensive even if we had a range the amount of times we'd be able to use would be pretty limited um so that's where Milo comes in and uh really cool part about my is it's it's a range and and it's you can set it up to do multi ranges but you can also set it up to do scenarios so um got have some notes here so I go all over the place but um right right now our PD uses menaga Sportsman's Club Great Club but the issue is we share with two other police departments and when we go shoot we take the place over which we feel bad for it's not fair to the people who buy range passes there so therefore we only get a few days at that range um so and and then in winter time you're even more limited because you know we do shoot in the winter but not that often so the beauty with was what it is is a HD system that has three screens that are in a u sheet and um it projects on HD these actors that act out over a thousand different scenarios they're up to a thousand this so you have an instructor sitting there and the instructor can change how the actors behave based on the officer's actions and the Milo itself is integrated with our uh pistols um with our chemical irit with batons with flashlights so anything you're grabbing on your belt Milo is recognizing you now have the chemical you're spraying it you're do you actually spray it no no but it looks just like it so all the equipment is is exactly like okay so you push the but okay I got you yeah well yeah that's a good question because basically what it does is beauty of it is situational awareness yeah we've seen it before when you're under pressure getting stuff off your belt isn't the easiest thing to do so the more you can train on that the more under high stress environments we can act more appropriate um so so it's an interface system um they have a thousand scenarios now and each scenario can have multiple different outcomes and then Milo sends out about 50 to 60 um U new scenarios every year free charge so we can constantly keep fr with with with the scenario B train um of course the it's very cheap to to use um we're just basically using electricity instead of actually ammunition but it's very accurate you know the way we shoot there is going to be the way we shoot in the range so it does fill that void that we don't have right now there's obviously a large upfront cost but after that it becomes very economical for for training um it uh in most of the scenarios I mean to be fair don't end in a shooting you know there's a shooting range the scenario Based training is set so we're not shooting you know we're doing everything we can to prevent uh that kind of encounter um the different scenarios can include mental health deescalation Jal interaction inherent bias uh school safety and you know dozens of other different scenarios and then when you go off scenario training you can go to the range training and then that has multiple different scenarios too wind conditions elevation low light highlight any kind of shooting scenario you can imagine this thing can replicate and uh so it it really does more than even what we can do at a range here um and uh the scenarios themselves are they actually Milo has a doctor of Education technology and uh to create these scenarios and then they partner with neuroscientists behavioral experts and then law enforcement experts to to come up with these scenarios I I'm assuming they actually they actually take the scenarios from maybe actual incidences so absolutely real world scenarios so you guys have obviously requirements for your training and G this meets that then doing this even though you're not actually firing your weapon so that's a very good question so we would still be going to the range for actual shooting um the postp does require that um but the postp requirements for actively shooting the live ammo are relatively minimal um we could do that easily in one or two shoots um this is more of a maintenance um tool to to keep our skills up but that's a good question um and and then of course once we get it set up and once we get well trained in the usage we open it up to our other law enforcement probably be able to get Revenue off and and this isn't legally arranged right so it doesn't the 87809 requirement to be doesn't nope nope this is this is not arrange at all no live ammo uh on premise it's all based on lasers and electricity the Milo website looks like they have links for possible funding and Grant options we will be looking into pling for those if we go forward with this we can definitely reach to our we have two direct Associates that are really awesome getting back to me immediately yes for federal a US Department of Justice fund and then a local law enforcement we'll reach out we'll we'll we'll look at those um we'll see how viable they are um likely we'll also have a conversation with the crime prevention fund you know they're like some of these projects they've done they did some work you know obviously donated some money for the um well it was kind of yeah they really donate money for this we won't get into they donate they donate for plenty of things right and we'll see what if they if they're interested in this one so um yeah we we'll we'll yeah um that'd be great uh but we we'll look into those definitely um and that's you know the construction piece is important I think uh because construction costs are going up every month we wait generally you know I mean it's going to be more expensive if we wait we have the money right now we could do it right now so that point in the packet it's got the diagram which side is the hallway that I walked in on to look at the gun range left side di the part with the control on the electrical panel that's y yep so there's a there's an entry kind of a mezzanine door that you go into before you get into the actual range area and that's double doors outside um that would go those would go into the parking garage yep and we uh they'll be big they would be big enough to it might might not be double doors it might be a a garage door style thing but okay yeah and it'll be big enough to get a forklift in there so let's see I didn't see the size what is the what is it 10 ft wide 12T wi the for the model itself it requires I'm saying space the room for the I'm just curious let say it's around 16 15 or 16 feet I know I know the Milo system fits in there by like an inch on both sides squeezing just over okay on each side requires about around 20t the projectors have toen sounds good um yeah I would say um get some bids for the project for the construction part and then um at the same time maybe uh look into some grant funding from these other sources including talking to the um crime prevention fund and then see what we come up with so proceed with um quotes for the construction piece right because it's under 175 um I think we we can get it under 120 some quotes for that um work on some outside funding for the Milo system see what we can what we can shake out for that are we look are we thinking about Construction in 25 construction I think so we have it we have it there and if we can come in close to that 116 I think we should do it 25 and then we'll be ready let's just say we could get it done in 25 and then if we if we're ready and we want to even do the Milo in 25 along with the security that's what I'm thinking then you bundle those together into a equipment certificate payable in 26 so have it structured so that you're you're you maybe pay an interest only payment in 25 depending on when it's issued you might not even have to do that you might just have a larger larger payment in 26 have come back with some options for that yeah it sounds like we need the um security the camera stuff and then security stuff that we need that sooner than later so it sounds like that really has to get done this year Well if we're going to do let's just say a 250 $260,000 security um thing then you might as well add another 100,000 or whatever it might be you know say for the equipment certificate it's not going to make that big a difference no probably just the council's expectations it's got to be that there probably be a $4 to $500,000 equipment certificate maybe both in 25 and 20 because otherwise they won't have squads or they won't have gear you won't have equipment or you know we don't have our our our Levy up think in6 we had a huge equipment well you have to yeah we to look at that with the budget process but 25 we have some um yeah well I'm just saying these two items oh year would even just be I mean we don't have 400,000 sitting in our Capital fund that just no no they have to be equipment yeah yeah that's what I'm saying but then when we get into the 26 budget process unless we really go thin for equipment and stuff in 26 we're going to potentially be looking at the the same so we only have a $200,000 cash Levy in our CIP you know it'd be nice to build that up higher but there's been other priorities you know so roads and other yeah we have to go a little thin for one year on something else we do but Gary will get his cameras um for the water treatment plant and start Tower everybody gets a little something well we'll we'll work on this and and along with the camera system we'll we'll try to get this moving um I think we we have two contractors looking at it right now um and I'm not sure if we got a quote from the second contractor yet Craig uh yeah we did um last week when I was out of town it was high okay so we'll have to develop some a quote package of some sort and get it to them officially and have them give us official quotes instead of just ballparks we we just wanted a budget number that's kind of what we told them and so okay we'll proceed and and and move forward with that okay sounds good so next we have the street projects for 2026 I think that's G or Allison um Madam mayor I'll will take this if you don't mind um so mayor and council at the strategic planning session back in February um there's discussion about a bonding project for 2026 and council's direction at that time was a budget of $4 million uh so uh G and I went back and took a look at the areas um that we had originally been looking at paired it down to three three areas that are included in the packet uh North and South Saunders which would be just over 1.3 million the majority of that would be a millon overlay the cores are showing some um full depth removal and replacement of the few roads there and um if Council um is aable to including this as a project U we'd like to get some more cores out there just to understand the extend into that full depth rather than making um assumptions that's that would be our recommendation uh the second area is Lakeside Drive Lakeside Circle and Pinnacle way um that that area would be a 2in mill overlay and then the third area is Game Farm Road um with a millon overlay and some f up um it says Reclamation but I believe it's full dep removal and replacement with a budget of 2.76 million so adding all those up we are over 4 million however um an option to consider for Game Farm Road is to designate a portion of Game Farm Road from County Road 110 to Blair and then Blair as uh stating routs and then I have there's a minor typo on on the first page of the memo um a portion State counts could be used for a portion of Game Farm Road would be that portion that's designated St WR but is that the 938 correct okay y so that would just be that portion right correct and so we offer that as an option for councel to consider so that you would deduct that 900,000 so we would still be under that $4 million cap that Council discussed um so I included on the second page of the packet just some of the considerations when it comes to designating St stateid routes um from all indications we have um we have enough mileage to go and designate those roads uh we have construction funds available to cover that portion of Game Farm Road um we had some preliminary discussions with staff member at state aid to look at that that portion of Game Farm Road um there are a couple different options we're looking at for designation and this individual thought that this would be a good option to present um we took like the real high Lev approach looking at there's State a design requirements and they don't want to bore the Council of but basically you can't have too much vertical curves and horizontal curves they might be changing that they're looking at possibly easing up on some of their standards that because it really really hurts them it certainly does um but preliminary looks at this we have some some curves some vertical and horizontal curves on that section of g f but um it didn't look it would be anything that would stray from the state aid design requirements so um we wanted to bring this forward to council for discussion see if you're comfortable with those three areas um and and looking at designating game farm a portion of game farm and bler as state aid routes um and from a timing standpoint how this plays in is uh does there needs to be a council resolution to state aid by May 1st to request new routes on that system so we wanted to have that conversation with Council to see if that's something you'd like to do and then um just as a matter of bookkeeping so to speak um Blair Road have to be redesignated from a local road to a collector right it wouldn't really change the use of it it's just basically changing the it's only because it's connecting sunnyfield to us do so correct yeah and I had some preliminary conversations with David able last week about any planning implications on it we we really didn't see anything there was you know the the right of way width requirement um is is higher for a collector Road um but you know we so far out on anything ever happening on where road but you know you know I don't see that in kinging on any what is the um right away there do you know it's 66 currently andle 80 oh it is for our um for standards so I thought it was 66 I I don't have my notes FR we can certainly if Council wants to pursue this we'll we'll bring all that information forward so that there's a full understanding of what that would what that would entail well the only my only concern is so if if it is 80 and I thought it was 66 okay um if and we designated now as a collector do we then have to take that right of way at this time time not at this time no that the 80 foot RightWay was was through City C so it's we could change that you could certainly change that you could Grant a variance there are certain options that the council would have at their disposal for that but designating designation of a a collector Road in this instance doesn't mean that the city council has to go get that additional RightWay if if it doesn't me if the current RightWay doesn't meet the city standard don't that road but Anda require 80 not that I'm aware of the the mot requirements that I'm aware of have to do with um with the the curves cures and yeah and the slopes the how steep the slopes can be going off the roadway that sort of thing I'm not aware of a r of weight requ so what's different I know in 2010 that was a big challenge we were going to need like three or four state aid variances I don't know if the mayor remembers the whole this part is for sure fine okay this is this part is doesn't have those curves so if you look at that map the one of the issues was along um uh the lake and there's a big curve along the lake and then there were some also some grading issues and with that we just couldn't meet it I mean it was just going to be astronomical because we'd have to do all this well kind of like North and so then we decided to do it without State funds and so we took it off of our state road so but if we can put this section back in it doesn't have big huge curves so we should be able to meet those standards and it doesn't go up and down in that section so it should be so this section wasn't one of I remember it was like three or four spots last time around that that red flagged us and they're like we thought we could get variances and we couldn't and then it would have been yeah right so this this should work yeah no as long as it does they allow us to do a portion of the V now in the past they haven't okay so um so Alison in the past they have not allowed us to do just a portion of the road so so the the difference here mayor is um you can do a portion of the road because you the rules are you have to connect to another state and that's where we add in because Sunny Fields already stating grow right and so we would be splitting game farm Ro we wouldn't be designating the whole game Farm Road and you can see in the would be the lower left hand corner right you can see where you get like right angles on Game Farm Road those are the the horizontal curves that would not be stated from par to's reflection and just looking at it with those Cur those curves that are on the right side in the purple they they meet State a standards we were looking at that preliminarily yes okay so we'll we'll do a deeper dive but I wanted to do a pulse check with the council see if that's palatable um and then we'll we'll go through this with the fine Toth comb continue that conversation with state aid staff um and then um if council is aable to adding this as a state aid Ro we be bringing that paperwork for to you with in ail way and there's no downside to adding it the requirements because the road already meets the requirements it's not if I want change it or do anything so there's no down no and in fact the so the city has state aid mileage available meaning that um you generate needs we should have we should try and max out our state8 Miles because then we get more dollars too yeah so and and state is taking a look at you know they don't want to see miles going on the state system just for the sake of getting getting generating those needs but certainly when you look at game f Road particularly next to the school there's a high volume of traffic on that um so I think we have a really good um really good case in that situation and again because we were having those preliminary discussions with state aid staff they but their their first reaction was well this is probably a good option to pursue yeah let's do that my only my only question in the uh write up you said that the Reclamation would be from County Ro 110 um to where that just before but I think the first section of the vad would just be Mill and overlay then it's Reclamation then it's Mill and over we have the state a dollars why wouldn't we just do it all at once because it would be nice to keep restate as much as we can to use for other roads AR we running out roads to use them we have hund coming up that's going to be expensive is going to be what 1.4 1.5 million probably oh I can't remember what we just did we just went through with the first half of country trail if you look at um in the council packet if we're if wee we get this the same allocation for construction next year our state aid fund balance would be about 1.9 million um and if we use our um if we use the state aid funds for County Road went de Blair were just under about 968,000 so we would be getting that city construction fund balanced down to about a million and I think that would be once you add in Hunter Trail there we would get that construction fund, B down and you your your cap as well I don't know what the cap is currently it used to be 1.6 but I think it might yeah so the the state um was last year I talked to the district State engineer about the cap and they changed it it used to be like two or two and a half times your right your your annual allocation now they Capp it at I have it in my Cap's not the right way to say you lose like a th000 bucks or I mean so not a little bit it's not much I mean you still get 450 out of your 460 or something yeah so but I just didn't want it it's not CA like at hard 1.6 it stops you know so you're plus right whatever it and if we do more of this we don't have to worry about all when are we we keep pushing Hunters farther down so what we build up the 900 you know fairly quickly in by time we do it we're not going to do hunters in two years now we just talk about further down the road yeah but we have we could be doing yeah so the last um the last map included is the current the city's current state route with some notes on it um so you can see Hunter trail theer of Hunter trail that that's one that we've been looking at Highland will get in here at some point um probably over overlay probably and it's it's not within our our current Horizon four years or so but it's it'll it'll creep back on there um so we certainly have that and then we also have our eye on that section of H said that we did that Millay on back in 20 I think it was as a a let's yeah let's see what we can do there and it's performing very well not wi so we hope that continues but um so we're certainly keeping our eye on some of these things um some of these roads as as they start to AG plus we have West Branch the entire length that could be upgraded we have Sunny field that could be upgraded and now if Blair is added we could do Blair I mean there's other roads that we could do we just did some only a certain portion of it the rest is all still gravel so yeah but that has that heart Cor but it could go all the way up to Blair so I mean there's other things we can use the money for too plus the other thing um I've been look I've been asking uh staff about is can we use can we allocate any of the 400 what, that we have towards the payment of hallad on the H Bond and I know you've looked into that I'm so need to hear back because we've got I got one answer back from State eight we got an answer back from ell State yeah and so I came back to State eight and I haven't heard back I would almost recommend just spending it on construction projects I me we've already got that portion for I'm just saying if we don't have any construction projects or we're not you know using it all maybe that might be another option because then we can use those dollars to add into our road fund I think yeah we're going to spend the money either way right you know one way or another so however we want to allocate it we can um if that's an option we can evaluate it right again just putting it on the table fortive possible options so um staff's looking for Council direction if you agree with our recommendations we we bring forward um a proposal to get started on some of the store there's something that Council would like to see staff come back with concerned so go for the state aid designation and we're okay with them it'll be around 3.4 million somewhere in that based on our budget for local funds and we would be doing that so how are we doing in terms of overall debt it's going up yeah I think at the end of 2014 we were at just under 25 million um you know um in total you know water roads you know facilities everything um so depending on you know we could almost potentially be looking at doubling that close to 20 to 25 million I mean OB the only good thing about this is that the tax levy impact I guess would hit in 27 because in my mind I'm going well we're already doing all these equipment things we talked about earlier in the night and we've got operational stuff and you know the levy already at 2026 at 10% or something I know that's so that's I mean the road projects wouldn't kick in till 27 the debt payment but it's obviously makes it's already starting 27 but I think we're going to have to be looking out ahead because I don't think we can keep bonding four five8 million every year every other year so we have to keep that in mind because I just think um and I don't know when some of the equipment certificates fall I think some do fall off next year don't they yeah the 20201 will fall off I guess in the 25 or six I guess yeah so I mean but those help but I mean really those are still even 80,000 100,000 to around 80 or yeah yeah okay all right what do I do all right it problems all right um any other comments questions discussion um how much how much of this is going to be potentially some of this might be accessible or just that portion that's going to be the Reclamation project the full depth removal in north and well that's what I was going to ask are we going to assess those people or Turtle Creek yeah and and mayor and council member that's that's why we like to go and get some additional course so that we would know the extent of some of the the full dep removal and and replacement particularly in North Saunders if we're at a worst case scenario because just where the POR is lay there was there was no there's no way to say well this is done in certain phases so we can assume that the ends here it was all done at once so we want to get some additional information because if what what's shown on the maps here is a worst case scenario and you can see that there's there's a good section of of um North Saunders that's pulled up for and replacement and that would certainly be part of the council discussion um when doing this um actually both or souers um we have the west side of saers like at north um we have you know one entire Street um in South Saunders so that would be a a policy discussion um I'm thinking if you you know so this is just a thought if you have a project like this and it's a a whole a neighborhood but not the whole neighborhood gets a Reclamation I'm kind of thinking couldn't you combine the the projects the Reclamation and overlay and then just assess everybody because I don't think it's fair to just assess people on on one or two roads and then everybody else getes because a lot of these roads everybody uses anyway it's really good the roads are really bad I mean well main fig Ro isn't so if you look at North Saunders Saunders like Drive North where um where it's showing full that replacement or was taken on the north end of that and it's it's where there's a wetland in each side of the road so I don't know if it's just you know is it couple hundred feet of the road or is it the entire length we're showing the worst case scenario on these maps kinding in the budget but that's why we want to get some more por so my recommendation would be that when we come in with a proposal we can take a look at getting um some additional cores through here so we can really narrow down where that f up removal and replacement is then in the interim as as we go through um as we go through the project find out what the extent of that full depth removal and replacement is how and see what the council's feedback is as far as do you want to make this a 429 project or do you you know are you similar to well if we do a 429 then I think it has to be everybody in versus just we can't just single out yeah 12 or3 homes I don't think that would be fair and and if it is the whole neighborhood then the assessments are going to be minimal I mean there's going to be 2 3,000 or something like that it's not going to be that much yep and that's that's the advantage of of talking about this here in March and then and then trying to get this this narrowed down in April is um if this does turn if this portion of the project turns into a 429 project we still have time to get that feasibility compl going um the other part too is on game Road there was some discussion about assessing for the the project costs that are adjacent to um that F dep removal and replacement on how it kind of went back to that 2015 project and those folks wanted to keep that section of root of the project so there was nine properties adjacent to that section that's so the the purple section there um that like 1 2 3 well you're not going to count the ones on Sunny Brook but um then there's a city and then there's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 maybe actually on both sides so there's only nine I think technically okay so we count it but those weren't assessed because they didn't want you know what they were left off the origal project list when they redid the was already paid but so they were never s but should be for this project you stop when people op out of projects yeah yeah they those those would be assessed so okay so we'd have a component of 429 component to this project anyway and so it would just be a matter of getting a little bit more payment investigation and S Saunders to find out if the 429 process would apply in that project more to come up all right thank you you all right so Gary are you happy now you're getting better streets all right um anything else then otherwise we can be adjourned and we can at 7 o' so so move thank you made that motion and allv motion passes you would have said no no break and then Gary would