can't I all right so um I'm going to call the meeting to order this is a uh work session for the city of Minista um we have present this evening for the work session myself Lisa whan the mayor council members present are Kathleen rekin and McGregor Peter vicory Claudia Lacy and then staff present we have um chief of police Paul Falls Brian Grim Finance director Jasper kral um ad um administrator and then Ali paos director of administration and our city clerk and Mayer Hoff so with that we have a number of things on the agenda City Hall hours the 2025 additional position discussions and then donation of Outlaw D Huntress Crest fifth addition discussion with that I'm going to start out with the City Hall hours and Jasper you're going to take that thank you Madame mayor members of city council uh if you um remember back I believe to May believe May City Council authorized modified summer hours from June through Labor Day um we said we were going to provide a feedb back to city council sometime in August we are here now um looking at you know public input um city council input maybe some staff input if you have some questions about these again I'll remind you the um regular hours that we have um not summer hours are Monday through uh Friday 8 to 4:30 um the summer hours were Monday through Thursday 7:30 to 4:30 and Friday from 7:30 to noon um so we have let's say staff has not received any complaints I did get a comment from a council member um that was the only one that we've gotten that that's not in this this memo um and I'm sure we'll hear about you know this it's yeah it's good feedback um uh about the time so I guess what we're looking for is um we have a couple options would you divert back to regular hours um after Labor Day um and then a couple questions that I would have is do we want to have summer hours again next year if we decide we're not going to do it year round um if we don't do it year round we'll likely just you know do some internal scheduling to see if there's some flexibility there um with Staffing um if we can do that or not but I think from a staff perspective um being that there weren't any complaints from residents other than the one that we received fromy member so far um that we would like to see from a staff perspective perspective it going to year round so I'm here to answer any questions um I see a lot of smiling yeah know basically I had I had a resident go ballistic about it and she I almost got into an argument with her about how the hours actually worked out and um business is business the winter if you're going to have summer hours that's one thing when you get back to to business and that's after Labor Day you have to get back to reader hours and St okay you noted I kind of agree it's it's um I I was thinking maybe if you're working from home but sometimes people are maybe they only have Friday to get to an office and get things done and you know unless we're going to cut the actual hours back and reduce pay I mean hours are hours and it's it's a job where people come into the city to get and even if it's one person it's you know someone should be here and maybe that's you maybe you know I don't know I but someone has to be here for people that come into the to the city I actually had a thought and it would actually expand ours but okay so very bear with me bear with me um cuz I was thinking um there's a lot of people that like to come in really early before work um so I was thinking what if you had at the front desk both at City Hall and at the police station you had hours so you have two people there so you had hours Monday through Friday 7:30 to 5: and one person Works those hours and then the next week which is 45 hours the next week that individual Works 7:30 to 4: and you you switch it so every day Monday through Friday you have 7:30 to 5 open I mean and just right and and then then that person um that works the second week um 7:30 to 4: and has Friday off because of they 80 hours so that equals 80 hours the first week they work 45 the second week they work 35 then they have Friday off it's just a thought the other person so you have some you have one person there every Friday from 7:30 to 5 every dear Lord sorry so it's it's a little confusing but because there's two people at the front desk and there's two people at the PD you would always have at least one person there 7:30 to 5 no that's that's what we have to check that's the only thing we'd have to check to make sure because it's in a 2 we pay period that we wouldn't have to be paying overtime what if we just said who's a morning person and who's not and someone opts to come in at 7:30 and leave earlier and the other person Ops can do that too that seems to be easier just you know maybe they can if they couldn't agree on that maybe we could do that route which is a little bit more complex but maybe someone is like I'd really love to come in early and leave a little earlier and pick my kids up or I mean I don't know I think we could times yeah yeah like 730 yeah people yeah one person comes in at 7:30 and leaves at at 3:30 and the other person comes in at80 8:30 and leaves at 5 if that's something I mean fine that's okay too and they can switch off and work it together Flex time then um I think overtime occurs up to 40 hours All Hours worked over 40 hours for work week shall be considered overtime for nonexempt employees okay so we'd have to change that right right um but you wouldn't if it was a flex time correct I think from just a staff perspective sorry we'd probably prefer just to revert back to the 8 to 4:30 it gets a little difficult when people start taking off time and you need coverage for a Friday and I think um instead of the 7:30 to 5 just from a staff perspective I think we'd prefer going just 8:30 to 4:30 we can work something out internally if that's really a desire of you know the front desk girls I think I don't know Brian supervises Renee so I think so yeah it gets a little complicated I don't afternoon yeah yep yeah that's what I would do and especially changing hours again I think would get complicated but I I love the idea I think it would be just back to regular would probably be preferred over that yeah yeah I think uh I would have the same comments I think consistency is really important between the two buildings I think people will get very frustrated if the hours are a little different and I know we're not talking about that it's a little bit uh more unique now next door because Lori does not work 40 hours a week she is prated she used to leave at 2:30 we adjusted that up to 3:30 because we had more work for her to do um so she works I guess it would be 35 hours a week oh okay um so that would kind of uh 37 and a half she's really close yeah yeah okay right so she just leaves um at 3:30 each day when we're working regular hours okay um I think it's very common for uh cities to do this in the summer I think where it becomes less un common or less common is in the winter and I think that's what we're saying too that we'd rather have I just thought if that was an option to have it open longer but that's fine right I I love the idea the issue the challenge for me would be if one wants to take vacation right and it was their they worked the heavier week the first week then the next week I'd have to pay someone overtime to cover it y um things like that and that would come up fairly often because there's only two of them okay so so regular hours reverting back to regular hours after Labor day and then um and then consider it again for next summer one question do you want us to bring it back for summer hours or do you want us just to do it like we did this last year and just [Laughter] really like and and I will not like if if you and I know I and I'm speaking for others I just kept my reg only I think it's also worth mentioning that in the summer we I heard a number of positive comments people could get here before work which they really enjoyed it seems like people are get going a little earlier in the summer winter time not maybe not so much so there were some positive feedback right exactly for what it's worth yeah so yeah I just want to know what the expectations are as far as next summer goes there's three of us that one two three there's four of us that will be here Claudia what do you want to do just next Summer Okay so they're here earlier in the summer yeah I'm okay with that I mean of course who doesn't want to leave early on Friday yeah so to say oh they like it well duh of course they like it um I I if it really truly is not that busy um you know I can I can love it that Peter yeah okay and we and we can always if you're getting a lot of feedback about hey you know this isn't working we can we always we can always change it back um it's just we haven't gotten that feedback not that much all right so we'll plan on going back to regular hours after Labor Day and then summer hours again starting Memorial Day week all right that good all right moving on to additional position discussion um is that Ally or Jasper um I will I'll take the lead and I'll take feedback I don't know if we want to go there's three positions I don't know if we want to take each one individually or if you want me to go through all of them and then at the end okay okay perfect so we will um start off with the assistant City administrator so couple one of these has already been built into the budget that's the um engineering technician I believe um the other two have not been built into the budget so I want to make sure that there's a consideration there so the assistant City administrator um this was a position that the city has had in the past I think going back as far to the as far back as to the early 2000s um the last one that we had was when um Mike Fon previous administrator was the assistant City administrator under Mike Funk so couple City administrators ago this this role kind of went away once Mike Bron was um appointed for various reasons I've heard some stories here there um uh but it was it a position um now we don't have it we have the director of administration um so um reactivating this uh position as you can see as you can see through the job description it's a higher level position there's more focused on strategic initiatives um organizational movement progress things like that working on um you know larger scale items such as legislative policies um working with local um uh local like uh henen County those those types of people and then just kind of looking at what the what the initiatives are of the city council and making sure the prols are enactive which is which is something that I also do um couple couple items that I've uh made of note is enhanced leadership and strategic Direction improved organizational efficiency continuity of leadership that's one thing um that was pointed out to me is that every other group that we have has kind of a second in command um you know the police do um Public Works does Community Development does but the main Administration does not at this time um so and that was you know that's a decision that city council makes um so and we have focused on strategic initiatives and proactive problem solving and Innovation those are just some items I came up with so um attached in the memo you'll see a comparison um that I kind of put together about the director of admin versus the um assistant City administrative positions they're quite similar there are some key differences mostly those higher level strategic initiatives that you'll see on there so um based on the scoring of the position um using the outside consultants and also the the um surrounding Market data we proposed this to be a grade 11 now I want to make sure everybody knows where everybody's at because there's been some movements here so Paul and myself are grade 12 right now um um Paul's a grade 11 oh sorry Paul's a grade 11 sorry sorry Paul's a grade 11 I'm a 12 Paul's 11 the direct all the other directors are 10 and then um as the um rank file goes It goes down in grade so just so everybody's aware sorry I thought gave you a promotion right away there Paul but um he is at the top step of 11 but um so just you know if this would be um a step two entry you can see the the budget impact in the memo um Personnel committee now there we met about this uh two times um at the Personnel committee once March 19th um and we had very good discussion I think at this time um I think the outcome from kind of uh rehashing this with both Kathleen and an um the outcome was you know settled in at a grade 11 Step One um there were some questions that came up though um from that meeting and that's you know about what cities have assistant City administrators or assistant city managers um what the differences are between the two job descriptions um so we brought that back again to the Personnel committee on I believe June 3D um and really I think during that meeting we talked mostly about internal Equity amongst kind of the director level positions um and director level support for the position so um I thought well I should really get this figured out and talk to my directors and see what what their take is on it I had before um this meeting just so you guys know um and um basically most of the directors are in favor of this position so um I'm not sure if that answers the internal Equity piece um but as far as a director level support you know the vast majority do support this position um and then at the end of the June 3rd meeting um you know it was basically a Personnel committee meeting we don't vote like y or name kind of not or shap the head no and I think that three out of the five um said we're not going to move forward this position and I kind of ended it and said well we'll bring this forward at a future city council meeting which is today three said yes two said no correct oh all wasn't in there two said yes two said no so that's where we're here today um comparable city data you can see the various cities kind of in the region that have assistant City administrators or assistant city managers um with their populations um so you kind of see it runs the gamut all the way from you know 2,000 people up to you know 14,000 I think Rogers is the the most populous city that has one on this list do you know which cities have assistance city managers I do um let's see Mount has an assistant city manager because they're the manager format um Victoria do as well wakia wetta wakia does not wakon is an administrator wetta is a manager Victoria and I think Victoria was too Victoria is a city manager format yeah so it's whatever the however you establish your local government you're either a statutory a or statutory B City or statutory a which is an administrator Council not a manager Council so that's the main difference so it's not really any they do same types of things so um you know I don't know what you gather from the data but you know it's basically if the city thinks that they need it it'll be helpful they they can have it and you kind of see that with the population data here so um again going into the benefits received by adding this position um really I'm I'm kind of pivoting a little bit about the approach of this as opposed to a person and more of just like these high level what do we gain you know as a city from having an assistant City administrator a couple things just off the cuff is it provides me time to do more like legislative updates or legislative check-ins making sure that I'm um staying network with other administrators and managers which I know you know might sound like it's fun but I don't know if youve ever been in a group with a couple administrators get together but we just talk about work basically the whole time so that networking piece is I think very very powerful and and good for the community so I pride myself and I I try to keep up with you know meeting with the Mountain City Manager Spring Park all those people so it allows me some time to do that because the the assistant City administrator um is able to do some of the analytic stuff that maybe the administrator's done in the past or would would do um looking at a lot of um these changes that you see here um you know as far as wages go that's stuff that the assistant City administrator would would be doing um so trying to think I don't want to just re verbatim from this but um really what what this comes down to is you know the city administrator myself I'm recommending authorizing the reactivation of the assistant City administrator position effective 111 of 2025 uh you can kind of see the budget impacts on the third page I believe um for this uh the total would be just about $10,000 total for the year um of which 4,400 is related to the general fund so I anticipate there will be some questions uh I'm here to answer any of seems like it this we can still adjust that I mean if we have to yeah that's true we haven't yeah we haven't finalized it yet but we can um we can talk about that too um okay I'm going to start out I'm going to say um there there's a number of things I think that need to be considered and that's one um kind of giving you a little bit of a history and a background on this so back in the early 2000s Minista didn't have back even earlier than that Minista only had a city clerk that acted as the administrator so and then the city clerk retired and the city um hired basically our very first uh City administrator and um shortly after that uh the administrator said I really need an assistant and so it was early 2000s that the city hired their first city um assistant administrator and we had an assistant administrator all the time up until 2015 when um at the time as he said as Jasper said what happened is um the vacancy occurred for the city administrator the assistant administrator at the time Mike Baron was moved into that position on an interim basis until the new Council was in place the new Council came on board and said yes we want to keep you as the permanent City administrator that left a vacancy in the assistant administrator position at that time we were looking at um uh levies and budgets and it was pretty tight as as they always are but um and and what we did when we came on when I came on board one of the things that I wanted is better and more frequent Communications with our residents and I felt that that was a very high priority and the um Council agreed and so Mike said Mike Bron said rather than um having an an assistant administrator I'd like to have somebody come in that's good with Communications and Community engagement events and HR that's what I need right now and so he said we could not only we can add this position eliminate the assistant administrator position and we can save some dollars as well and so the council said okay let's go with that and this was back in 2015 so that's like nine years ago almost 10 years now um and then um through the course of events uh that position has kind of evolved it went from strictly doing HR and and um and U Communications to then also um adding more responsibility to that position to now where it's the director of administration so um now we're at the cusp again of a growing Community more responsibilities more more workloads and so that's why Jasper has come and said hey I think we need to revert back to that City assistant a city administrator um having said that one of the things that we need to look at is succession planning any good organization of our size does succession planning there's there's no doubt about it if you want to be sure that you're that you're going to have a smooth transition from one person to the next um you do succession planning that's what we've done with with the police department because we want a smooth transition once Paul um decides to not in the near future um retire the other thing is when we didn't have that assistant administrator when Mike Baron left it did leave a big void now maybe some of you didn't realize that but I realized it significantly because there wasn't that go-to person at the top there wasn't that go-to person when Mike was gone it was just kind of a free-for-all if you will so I really felt that need and that void when we didn't have that um person there and when when um Jasper was out of commission for a while this summer the same thing happened it's who do you go to who is that top person who takes the role of that top person so not only is it important for succession planning and it's not to say that that person would automatically go into that that role that's not of given it's just that they could at least temporary basis take on that role but it's also they take on that role when somebody's on vacation somebody the administrator is on vacation they take on that role when when they're they're sick or ill or when they leave but the other thing is too if Jasper says he really needs some more help rather than hiring another person to do that I think it's better just to expand the C current uh job description and job tasks for somebody and put that let's say for Ally putting her into that position and allow and then maybe I think re writing the description for for um Jasper in terms of what his his tasks and what what those tasks expand to then because in the past we've never gone and been very active at the state legislature asking for bonding money we've never done that before and now we are we did we spent a significant amount of time there last year not only at the state capital but also preparing for it we also um I don't want to keep going on and on but I'm trying helpful well it's I think it's helpful because we're a growing community and we I think we need that second in command um to step in when needed and also to expand be able to expand asper duties and the other thing too like he mentioned not only do we have a second in command for the police department but we're talking about Randy storms being promoted to the um what is IT director of or super supervisor he would be the second in command for Public Works we have a second in command for finance we have um Angie there when when Brian isn't there we have we have Nick there that can step in and fulfill the role for David when he's not there or if David were to leave again he could step easily step into David's role what we don't have is we don't have that for Jasper and that's what I would like to see that's what I feel I as a we as a council need as well as our organization so that's kind of where where I'm coming from well you had me at ability to you know look for more bonding someone but that's his job right that's Jasper's job description so what we're essentially doing is taking Jasper's job description and watering it down so he doesn't have to do as much and Al can do more and just because we have the job description that we used to have withies we don't necessarily have to fill it and just becauseand it's not necessarily appro for a city all of those cities up there have significantly more businesses infrastructure everything are a very residential town with what five businesses we're not going to be lobing the state every year for something I mean we have our water project and we have city of Corran doesn't have that many okay businesses one I mean like I don't know I don't not population wise might be comparable to most of those we we're not when it comes to everything else we are nothing like lonia Victoria Mound we not and you say that what are the city strategic goals and this is going to help with it what what isn't being met now I mean that I mean how is giving you a second command to change that well when he's at the state capital I mean when he's at the state capital then who's going to be in charge of the ship here when he's not here stal I'm just that's just I understand that's just one example that's just one example but these tasks are not weekly tasks that go on all strategic planning outside funding acquisition and public engagement that's not a 40 hour week job that's a at most 40 hours will be total I the bonding okay fine but once this bonding is done we don't get it which is what turned out it's not like we're going to keep rebonding for it once we build it we don't get money again it's done we don't meet most of the requirements for the local aid for the roads for that we're too wealthy of a community we we don't re fulltime lobbyist um if I if I I think you asked a question right of of of what I what I would do you know are we just watering down my job description I I think I know everybody knows that I work at the pleasure of the city to so I will do anything and everything you guys want me to do it's not like I'm going to now be working 20 hours a week because of this there's always additional things that I can do and we can be more strategic in some of the things that we're doing it'll allow more time whatever your heart desires right if you want me to go out and try to get Federal funding you know that'll be something that I could do if if it's a funding based you know initiative that you guys tell me you want to do hey I I want more outside money I will find a way to at least get us in front of the right people right yeah you only have to come up with $150,000 of additional funding to make this a wonderful thing well sure that's how I look and then and then we get a lot more help and then God forbid if you're unable to do your job or something comes along we have a backup successor so I mean it's not this huge thing I mean if we can go get another 150 $175,000 somewhere um because you're focusing on being able to go down and talk to those legislators then it sounds like a good idea to me yeah and there's I'm sorry there's a lot of things we could be pursuing grants wise that we just have time to there's a lot of pars there's also the um with net Council there's you know there's there's a lot of other things that we could be doing that would help out our city but not only that but there's a lot of things that Ally is currently doing that the former assistant administrator was doing so and they had the title and they had the they had the the P because he can't do it because he's too busy doing all these other things specific says any the administrator to a point correct sure yeah I mean everybody's job description has that in there so we can you know but you state like it's going to enhance efficiency and Effectiveness how how how will it there will be another Point person if I'm not here let's say I'm gone um there isn't I think there was some confusion in the in the job descriptions that the department heads were not going to be reporting to me any longer they' be reporting to the assistant that's not the case so you know but if you're gone then they do then they do correct yes because that's the what the acting City administrator position do so it' be more efficient if I'm gone let's say I'm out there's a question that comes in there's actually a point for for that so if you're gone and Randy has a question he knows to ask if if I'm gone and Randy storms yeah but if Gary if Gary has a question that and G then Gary has nobody to go there's always be that issue go away no no to and we don't have someone as administrator capable of functioning we did that without M and then we're capable of hiring either a new city city administrator like we we're not going to stop functioning as just we don't have second man it's not like the chief leing where there was an obvious Next Step toting so what's what's your objection this Ro okay I don't think we need it I don't think jper needs a second in command it's the only reason is because we need someone that the directors need to go to and that description assistant in in assistant City administrator to the current director of administration position I mean in my mind in my mind when J out and I don't know who to ask I generally ask Al or like if the public works you know like I Pi the person who would be the next logical person to answer the question I need so you're will to step at this point comom but here's here's the thing I'd like to point out when Jasper when we hired Jasper um I clearly recall that his comment was I and our question was what do you think about the organization and so on and and he his comment was well I would want to take a look at it and I may want to make some changes not immediately but I may want to make some changes down the road and we said fine now he's asking to make a minor change a $4,000 annual change and we're sitting here saying we don't think you need it and I I have an issue with that because I don't run the city we don't run the city he has to run the city and if he comes to us and say same with the chief when he says I need another officer um I I want to promote the lieutenant to deputy chief do we say no we don't think you need that when Gary says to us he needs another um he needs another Public Works and I want to promote Randy to the to the be a superintendent do we say no we don't think you need that that's software we're talking peopleare job he can do his job right now he can do his job right now I I'm trying to give you some some examples of where we've said yes and so I'm having a difficult time understanding why there's consideration to say no that's that's what I don't understand can I ask Ally what are your thoughts can we ask that can I ask that I you think there's a need there I concur with Lisa and so awkward we're talking about me right but you know I think what's getting Lost in Translation is I'm already doing it nothing I mean yes it'll be enhanced but it already is enhanced I'm already doing it we're already super efficient we're already you know the staff has never been better here you know that's already happening I think this is just reflective of what has been happening do you think we're missing out on other opportunities because we don't have another body to go do it Jasper says we are so yes and we don't here's but he's the only we're not adding another body we're not adding another body correct we are we are elevating her to the status that she's already performing and then in a year we're not going to come back and go oh we need a director of administration now because Al's been doing this job and now there's this she doesn't have time to do the um speech for the meetings or the Min messenger or the Christmas party or the te the social media page I mean but she's already doing what Jasper needs her to more now with this title so he doesn't have to do it and then it's going to be well now we need she doesn't to do all this stuff I don't think that'll happen um I I mean I I don't I can't predict the future I don't know what future needs will be of the of the city but um I don't fore that happening um if that gives you any soulless but I don't I don't see that happening I mean I and I don't know if we can Circle back to maybe an's mediation compromise um there's something and we're going to get a little into the weeds is um pay Equity reporting so if we would just add something to a job description and we just did this I think last year I think we did it we have to do it every three years but but they look at it and one thing that would concern me is that our only female department head department head would have these additional tasks they look at that they look at how the positions are scored this position would be scored higher because of we would add everything from the assistant admin position to the director of admin it get a higher score or pay Equity reporting might come out Wy um right it's been good I mean we've passed every year that I've been here in previous years too I believe um one thing I will note just I think this question kind of came up is I don't exactly know how um Mike Veron was utilizing the director of admin position I feel I'm probably utilizing that position differently than him I don't know anybody else you know because I came into this I had an idea of hey this is director of admin in my mind that's essentially the assistant administrator um so I you know I think it's so it was Co we were all from home it was such a different work environment but yeah I would say I do a lot more analytics I mean I just say yes to whatever Mike asked me to do or what Jasper asked me to do and Jasper has just asked me to do more which I love I love learning and I I have no issue with anything he asked me but yes I would say I do more than I did under Mike not that I wasn't capable or he just didn't ask and we worked from home for a year when I started so just a different environment back then also and I mean what are you doing now that's not in your current job I don't youd have to sit down and I mean I think the specifically do is it in her job description I think my job description is the assistant administrator title personally I think it's just it's the title The so here's the other thing talking about pay Equity when you look at it she's the only female department head and she earns far less far less here forever I understand that but but but she does have a master's degree um and you don't need to have a master's degree to be a public works um director you need experience we're getting a little bog down in the description the description is a guide for the position so and it's used to score it I'm just that's kind of I I understand where you're coming from and um and Peter I think when you value someone I mean it's Ali city right here but she is so hardworking and gracious and accomplished and educated and we're so lucky to have her and I think this is a good idea I have one more question all right I said all right is about this has been we've beening about this now for quite a long time this 6:30 if you thought you were doing the job of the assistant City administrator we rebooked at everyone's jobs and everyone's pay and everything why didn't you say I think I'm doing my job description is not what I'm doing I mean she cuz she's humble I mean I me she I mean if you want to vote no just vote no I think rehashing this is just ridiculous I mean she's not coming to you with this it's me to you with this I'm just saying about no we work it out how we're going do so I mean it's it's I would say I would describe it as humble she has never come to me and said I want this this is 100% my recommendation to you correct if we were to go out and advertise for this position again it would not be advertised as a HR um Communications coordinator I can tell you that and and when you look at how many people qualified individual we had for this position when Ali was hired we had two two individuals that were qualified and um so if we were to go out today and have to rehire this we would probably we would either get none or very very few qualified individuals and I'm going by what what's been the the um data and what's been the history I mean I I can only go by that um we had two qualified individuals five years ago no um in four years ago 20 you came in in 2020 spring of 2020 well I can just speak from personal experience and you know learned over the years I can't keep track with everything and often need Sal and so I having an assistant that can think through things and business partners think through they they keep everything running pick up things that maybe I Haven thought about just it's just so Val to have talking this forever um I don't think that hashing the assistant I'm sorry I don't think hashing the assistant that's what you're saying hash the assistant person is what she she is now she's doing what a good employee does she's jumping in immediately whenever there's a need and if she has a skill level she's doing it I question whether she has the data management skill level that you do and no one has said anything about that and that's actually important because you Haven listed on the so I don't know whether she needs more education I don't know okay that's a point Kathleen has a really good point this does look like Kingdom building from from the perspective as how it was presented to us in the first St then what we need to do and that's why I came to this finally today this afternoon and I going to talk to you a little bit we have to look at your position and basically she's right the write up that we have here does look like a watered down version of your position you came in you resolved things very quickly I I told you when I met you I didn't think it was possible you did it you did really really well it's been a fabulous two years you need to move into new challenges and new things which leaves the door open for her and I don't think she's against what I'm saying I that's a really a good point I have a thought and I don't want to lose It Go so no Okay so we've been talking about more uh commercial development as an example that would be something that Jasper could work on along with David because David doesn't have the time to do it on his own but Jasper might be able to work on that and we want more commercial development along Highway 7 that that's I'm just I just thought of that that just might be might be one thing besides of course the bonding and the grant writing and things like that that so I think that there's there's definitely um more work that can be done that that Jasper could do if he had a little more time okay so let me throw the I'm an IDE trigger person and basically fin the IDE okay we'll try the idea what I'm thinking is is that we we go along and we say we are going to do this in a certain time frame but we don't do it until we have looked at his position and decided what your challenges he has what do you think I think we just said what the challenges are to you know develop more businesses I want to know I want to know why you can't get everything down your work we I want to know what's coming off your place that Chief's now going to be doing and then what you're going to fill those hours with because again yes how can David get more Community Development and and everything commercial along seven Street that's not a fulltime job but but he wouldn't be doing just that he would be doing everything that he currently does along with those extra duties right but what du he's not going to do everything he's doing now the bun is going to be not a bunch really not a bunch I mean I can I can answer that um if you want really we've been acting this way pretty much since I started right or wrong you know I rolled in I saw you know the different people that I'm going to be working with when I came in here and I said well this person is capable of doing this and Allie's been doing a lot of the things that we're talking about now right or wrong um feel free to look at my job description put whatever you want in it at the end of the day I will I do everything you guys want to do right like we have strategic planning sessions every year you say this is what we want to do um I don't know I mean you can do the job description stuff but year to year these strategic priorities change and if you want something done like that's a great time to talk about it we can hash it out I can tell you what we need to do to accomplish that goal whatever it is right it's it is literally whatever you guys want um so we can look at my job description you could put some higher level initiatives in there but really I answer to five people up here um and and I think I've done a good job of getting the things done that you wanted done yes um I wish I could have gotten some money uh you know but you know that we kind of have it's it's a that's a tough tough thing for this community to get but we can continue to keep doing that um so I'm all for that I will the difference is Ali's been doing the job of an assistant administrator and that's what he's trying to say she's been his sounding board she's been the second ideas and she's been doing that job for the last you know year and a half descrition so then not really but but even if it work we're still not paying her what she's valued at and what she's what she's doing so that's I think I think to Claudia's point and it's like we need to Value all of our employees um for what they're worth and I do think and I've worked with Alie you know for four years and she's been fantastic you ask her to do something it's done I mean not yesterday not not tomorrow but yesterday you know in half an hour in an hour and it's it's even on weekends I've called her and said sorry about this but and and she'll get back to me I I value that I don't want her to leave and I can see the handwriting on the wall because she has a master's degree she's been acting as an city um assistant administrator she's prime prime prime to be plucked out from under us I agree the title I think she's got a master's degree I think think she's excellent in her job I think she'll be Val she is I value her tremendously as a new council member and I think you know God forbid uh some big city PLU Jasper she's an intelligent professional woman I think she could step into that role um as a city administrator so I I vote Yes to this but we're not there yet but I'm 100% what I would recommend is this because we do have to make a decision um I don't object to rewriting some of the um job descriptions adding whatever tasks you feel that Jasper needs to do but I think we should go forward with with the um promotion of Ali and write rewrite if you will the job descriptions for both positions so that it's very clear to all of us what and basically it's going to include everything Ellie already does but then it's might clud some other tasks that you feel that Jasper should or could be doing I behind the things you said though about next year coming back and asking for a direct Dy noted I mean I I'm not going to do that I want to can I just say that I think we been riving to vote Yes on this I've seen split decisions on these type of items in the past and it's not good I guess as far as just I think Ally the more I listen to the conversation I think she deserves this the biggest concern I have is in a couple few years of Jasper Andor Ally leave I just want to make sure the people in their and I hope they don't or whatever that that there's not I've had it in the past and that's my biggest reservation with the assistant City ad minister is we had someone that was fresh out of college no experience and they were technically my boss and it was wasn't a good situation we had a new administrator a new assistant administrator and it was a little bit of a not great situation so as long as there's professional people like who are in the positions right now I'd say yes and it would be good okay with it yes all right love all I think she's job I'm trying to take her out of it and deter whether or not we need the RO versus giving Ali a promotion so she stays but let me clear I'm not I'm not leaving I know that let me be clear because you can't so people don't leave well we're not a big enough Community to keep doing that but she's already basically what we're doing is we're going to be paying her what she's deserving of being paid and in order to do that we're saying here's your new title you're still going to do all these things that you do plus maybe some other things and and it adds succession and it adds um that that void should should something happen to Jasper he gets hit with a beer truck or something um you know so I mean it's it's all these things it's not just one thing it's not just saying we want to keep of course we do it's all these other things as well so that's I mean when you look at all the the 1 2 3 4 five and six and seven reasons why we should do this in my opinion the one reason we shouldn't is simply because she's already doing it and the all the other reasons are there as well why we should do it so that that's where I'm coming from I think Brian has a point it's too bad if we can't be a 5 on this I understand your position um and you have a right to your position um and if you have to vote no I think everybody would understand so we're not going to vote the work session but what we're looking for is direction to put this in the budget for preliminary Levy adoption in September so this isn't in the budget but what we're looking for is nods yes no you'll always be able to I mean technically you can do whatever you want with the budget as long as it goes down after September um but what we're looking for tonight for this position and also the lead position would be just put them in the budget put them in the budget um they'll be a slight very small impact um and then that'll be considered in the the preliminary Levy that you'll consider on I think September 4th all right so I'll just note they'll come back in December for like on the consent or if someone wants to vot for consent the promotions yeah so the actual if if they're in the budget they will also be adopted on when the actual final budget is adopted correct on December 4th thir second second whatever the first meeting is in December second second December second December second so we're not formally approving anything we're just getting the direction to put it in the budget where it'll be looked at again two other times through here it's just not in there right now okay all right all right so public work supervisor I'm I'm seeing nods from at least four so we'll put it in the budget four okay three maybe three three or four three and a half three and a half knots all right go forward Public Works supervisor yeah so we kind of talked a little bit about this already with the engineering um no that's next oh engineering Tech okay sorry engineering technician um this position is in the budget already we just want to talk about it because it's new kind of um discuss it basically this is going to be a new position um starting in July is what we're proposing July 1st so start a q three um and what this role will ENT 25 yeah yeah um essentially what this role was designed to do is to take away some of the um construction observation admin piece that we pay WSB for we Brank about it but that's a huge number when we have a project um sometimes that number is you know $700,000 for a big construction and I want to make sure it's clear I've said this before that this position won't fill that void completely but it will pick away at it and if it's successful you'd likely see another position like this maybe in the future I think we kind of identified that maybe two would be a good fit eventually um the timing of this one is is um special because we we have proposed a large project in 2026 that we want to make sure this person is able to participate in and and and buy down that cost from WSB so really to be kind of a um I don't know if you want to call it a a gopher position but it is high level you need education you need to have some engineering background some Road roadway construction background um so it's not like they're just running around looking at stuff they know how to they need to know how to read plans they need to know how to do a lot of the the stuff that Gary knows how to do but it's new um that's kind of what it is in a nutshell this is in the budget I don't know if there's any questions we find candidates like yeah we could like approach Adam G yep yeah so that's a good question right out of college you don't get your your PE so a lot of engineering firms will hire people with with engineering degrees but then they don't get a PE unless they get experience could be one of those that maybe don't make the cut for you know one of the big engineering firms it could be somebody that works for a roadway specialist I mean unless it it all depends on probably pay right and what we're going to pay them um but you could get somebody with like roadway experience from like a existing contractor that says hey I know this stuff I I just want to get out of the business um but I'm really well educated I know what to look for so yeah y yeah yeah so we'll have to see there's no guarantees there there's um a lot of communities hire engineering technicians um but they do get posted regularly from other once they're here for a couple years so and then like you're saying could possibly cover all the needs we have have any sense I guess it depends on theol how much we can save and seems like we're still going to need yeah well I will say that we don't know the exact numbers but I will say when we have a heavy construction year like we will in 2026 that'll more than pay for the position on the years that are slower like maybe this year it'd probably be maybe 50% paid um in savings you know either from this you know it's hard to correlate with like tax dollars because um you know we pay WSB with CIP funds that are sitting in this fund that get you know filled with tax dollars but it's not a direct Levy get um so that CIP fund will will grow more um one other outcome will be that if we have to bond for a project that project um we have to bond for as much potentially because we have um that component of of construction observation is coming from inhouse so it's it's hard to pin down for like actual tax savings but there will be long-term tax savings for the community um on big construction years and then on lighter construction years some but probably not as many we're working on other avenues for Revenue generation such as like um final grading permit sign off um other development things like in Woodland Co we have a hard time getting somebody out there when they're rep planting trees like this person could be out there saying hey you're not planting this tree to spec um and you know if you do it this way it's going to die in 5 years whereas if you do it the right way it might actually live um so this there' be some intrinsic Community benefits as well um as well as Financial would we have any I mean now I assume we have some recourse to to our outside engineering messed up if it's in we don't have had any things like that happen or is that just we have definitely I mean there's been a couple instances that I know of one one while I was here with or I guess right before I got here with a driveway that got got that had electric um heating elements in it um and I think WSB and maybe the contractor split that cost so some of that stuff does those things do happen and if that would happen under our watch it would be our dollar it happened on H too when we did the H project there was some questions about I think with WSB and whatever and then WB picked up yeah picked up some of that this person would report to Gary and um there's no doubt in my mind Gary would be easy to do it this way like I think a lot of times a lot of times with with a um engineering person they're doing these things like after after hours and they're you know I don't know you know we have more control which I think is a benefit and I think we'll have less um liability if we do it in house as well how many so let's ask some of the same questions how many communities let's say that we're on this list here have uh in-house technician you know engineering technician do you know that's a good question I don't know um off the top of my head I'm trying to think if I do I know it'd be nice to know number one but it'd be also nice to know what exactly are we looking at on an average on an average um know how much are we going to save because we're going to have to pay this person um let's just say 100,000 I don't know 120 whatever it is and then what what would we save on an average over let's say five years or three years I I mean in my mind the over the first three years the goal is like probably 50% of their wages and then build up from there because I think we're going to find additional development related Revenue sources that will then buy that okay so we don't know that exactly because it's all development based and Project based but you know because we're going to continue to develop we're going to continue to have those correct I I think it I honestly see this working out I I see this working out well where the point maybe in four to five years we say we're going to try to hire another one and hopefully that's same person's here but it is a highly competitive yeah I I heard Tech um it would be civil yeah it could be yeah I mean it could be I where I was in Northfield they had them they're a little bit they're about 18,000 20,000 people um they had two of them there that's where kind of that's where I got kind of acquainted with them and and they're busy I mean they're out there as much as well as long as we're doing development and then we're doing road projects it's going to that individual he or she is going to stay busy and they're working for us right they're not WSB or molon and yeah whatever you know so I I think this will make our constituents happy because they're for us it should be and like a year like this year with the limited number of projects that we have I would estimate that this person would be able to handle all the construction absolutely so you know whatever we paid WSB for that our project this year we wouldn't even have a cost so so just one suggestion Peter was kind of asking before on um you know he had budgeted for the um engineer technician um in current what if we put off hiring that person until like October November of 25 that would kind of off that would more than offset that and it would still give that individual another five to six months um feet on the ground experience getting to know the city Etc before the construction um phase or before the construction season started so you know that might be an option too it would cut it would cut the cost that you see up there in half basically um you know we could post it in July and then hopefully hire by October but you know the one thing is we won't if we hire them in let's say July there still will be a tail end of a a street project I project but we already have hired somebody to to do the construction observation so I think it it would if we wanted to do that at like a Q4 higher that would be fine if we wanted to do that I think there's a little bit of benefit to doing it at midy year um even if we're not going to save the money they could get acquainted with the projects and all the people while they're working and and things like that so there's benefits to both but if you think that the 27,000 is worth waiting until October to hire well then there thinking we'd still be at that [Music] 9.5% but the projects would almost be done by thenly project talking about tonight well hopefully he's yeah but hopefully hopefully he's this person he or she has had the experience you know I I would hope that they wouldn't come in um you know as a complete and we can keep it in the budget the way it is and if the direction is in 2025 that we want to wait we can definitely wait um to hire um it's you know the assistance City admin has a pretty Min minimal impact to the budget um the proposed Levy that that you've seen already um you know you can always if you get more of uh inkling as far as the direction you want to go before December 2nd we can always make that that switch at that time too okay whatever I mean it's it could just organically happen I think Hing that position is going to be difficult so right yeah right okay are we on board okay then the next one is um the public work yep the public work supervisor thank you madam mayor members of council um right now we have a uh an employee Randy storms who is the Public Works lead which is a union position um throughout I guess when the last I guess Gary was promoted in 2022 um since then Randy's kind of Taken on some of those um assignment duties and working directly with the crew which uh the lead does but also this is kind of morphed into doing um uh employe reviews and things of that nature uh so really what this does is it kind of the position again has has morphed into a supervisor role the other issue that I think was brought up um and this is a union thing so not entirely sympathetic but the the lead position supervises some people that make more money than them which you know on the hierarchy side isn't always the best you know if you're supervising is a somebody that is getting paid more but that's the way it was this contract and the previous contract so it's not something new but it was brought to our attention just you not necessarily requesting anything but just say he did you guys notice this and you know when we're negotiating Union contracts we basically do the blanket um increase for each group and that's what it is and that's just how it worked out so that's another component that it was you know I think that's what brought it to our um attention from that employee and then Gary kind of said y we should do this so it's recommended by Gary um this is not something that's in the budget this would be uh something that would um that would be have a budget impact and as you can see from this table the general fund would have roughly a Zer and the Enterprise funds would would capture all of that so no Levy impact and you'd see some impact to um rates for sewer water storm sewer those things so it's recommended by by us to to proceed with that and as Ally said these things will be finalized these would be finalized on that December second [Music] questions all right and we okay move forward all right next then the donation of Outlaw D and huness Crest and that's why Ron Batty is here again thank you and so I threw this on here we don't need to talk about this right now if we want to cut this short because it is on the business side I just wanted to maybe provide an update to everybody here so we don't get into into the you know nuts and bolts of this um I can just give a quick update I think everybody's familiar with where this is at because we talked about it before but this is in Hunter's Crest um they originally came to us and said hey your sewer lines on our property get it off and we said sorry we're we're um utilizing prescriptive easement rights or we're declaring that you know sorry we're not going to move it move it well then they came back and gave us a couple different options one of which was for them to donate the land to us and we said well let's look into that maybe um you know we have to be very conscious we you know we don't want to see anything happen that we're not anticipating um so Ron is here I ask him to be here because um there's an donation agreement that's in the packet that we've looked through a fine tooth comb to make sure there isn't anything that is in there that would you know be harmful to the city um I think Ron is confident to say that the donation agreement is good um we don't we don't feel like it it does so it really comes out to so here's the reason why we want to make sure I'm going to make you cut you short sorry but the reason we want to make sure that we're completely covered is because as you know this um developer is a little bit like this so Ron have you reviewed this is there anything you can think of well I have and let me just add a little bit more detail to what Jasper said because this actually actually came up when I was here and you're right my first response was gee I think we have a prescriptive easement even though we were a little bit short of the 15 years and then what I said is Gee I'm Glad You Came forward because there's a pond on that property and you know the owner of the property is responsible for maintaining the pond so I'm glad you come forward and identified yourselves because now we'll know who to look to to to take the P crickets after that then they went after the title company they sued the title company and got some sort of settlement I don't know what it is and now they've come back to us well now we are past the 15 years so I think we have a good argument on uh prescriptive evenement luckily it's it's abstract property where you can get a prescripted e nonetheless I think it's very likely that they would to us I think they're they're looking to make some money you know they got some money out of the title company they haven't been successful with us I think their plan B has reflected in the agreement is they're going to make this donation and get a tax deduction uh and that's between them and the IRS I think the advantage to us is it takes all this thing all of this off the table to question yes I've looked at the agreement we've negotiated back and forth or Sarah has the main issue is that they wanted us to act very quickly we said we can't do that because we need to do some due diligence so the version in the packet before you says we have until December 20th which is four week four months from tomorrow uh to look at title do any kind of environmental review whatever we want to do to make sure that we're not into a problem and if we are if we discover that we are we back out of the deal and we don't take it otherwise uh then we accept the donation they can do whatever they want with with the IRS and we don't have this threat hanging over us okay sounds good any other questions we don't know well we've done we've done swamp on it yeah it's not bad I mean it's we we don't think that it it'll be at least 15 years um before any substantial maintenance is required we'll probably bow it a little bit more than they do right now but um but otherwise it's in decent shape it I think it always has been a wetland so it's kind of a naturally occurring Pond um so I think it'll I the recommendation if you look ahead is is to accept the donation and and start the due diligence process to kind of clear up the issues that that if I got ask something I don't really think we take on much more risk on on ownership in the pond because if you've got an owner who has a stake in the pond like an ho an operating HOA who wants to continue to operate it then you've got somebody who's likely to take care of it yeah with these folks you don't they're going to they're going to go away I me we're going to end up doing that any uh taking care of it in my opinion yeah okay good thank you R all right with that then that concludes our work session and we can be adjourned if there's a motion to adjourn thank you is there a second second okay thank you all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes by V we will reconvene at 7 o' for our regular meeting