all right is everybody logged in everybody ready to go all right it is 50:1 so we're late um no it's uh 5:00 and I'm calling the meeting to order this is the uh city council work session from inat Trista of April 15 2024 um real quick I'm Lisa whan I'm the mayor and we have council members Kathleen rkin and an McGregor here this evening and then we also have staff present we have our director of Public Works Gary Peters and who um okay Sarah um and then we have director of administration Ellie pus and Meer holf is our city clerk and then Jasper kral our city administrator Brian Grim our finance director and um Sarah salala thank you for coming great to see you uh Sarah Cala is our City attorney and then uh welcome Josh Brown uh with our Public Safety department first time here in a long time so welcome and with that we have uh four items we have Hard scravel Road parking our right of way obstruction discussion we have the City Hall hours our Personnel policy and then engineering professional service agreement review so with that we're going to start out with the Hard Scrabble Road um issue and I'm going to hand that over to Jasper and thank you Madame mayor uh members of council um there was a resident uh who I had um come to the or had Representatives come to the March 18th meeting um during persons to be heard and and talked about uh some of the things occurring on Hard Scrabble as many are aware there is a construction project with two homes being constructed simultaneously on the old uh Jimmy Jam property um talking to the contractors today they're both about 75ish per done just I got tried to get the update before um but there will be some pretty hefty uh landscaping and things like that going on this spring and summer so just a little update on where they're at in the project process um but the the resident has um voiced some concerns regarding the RightWay and the obstructions that that occur because of this um there are no uh areas according to the contractor for off street parking so a lot of the contractors the day workers are parking on the road what we've done uh is issued a temporary no parking order by the police chief um earlier well I guess later in the year last year um so that there is no parking in that General area on the lake side so all of the people are now parking on the inside side so the um Reserve side we'll call it um there are occasionally um deliveries that occur that larger trucks that will park on the the side that has no parking but generally I think there's people there um able to move if there's emergency vehicles or or whatever um our police have been um called out there I believe three times in the last six months made contact uh and and the the people that have been parking have been um uh open to moving and you know listening you know direct taking direction from your police officers I think what we're what we're looking at tonight is this uh the group that's here um one of the representatives is here tonight uh they they've put together an ordinance or a draft ordinance a Redline ordinance um that might be able to do some things that they would they would say that we could we could do basically uh it would take our utility one of our utility ordinances allow the city administrator to um issue citations things of that nature for no parking what we've kind of said is you know we have our Police Department we have our public works department um Mr Peters has also been kind of involved in this a little bit um throughout the last year nine months or so um but you know relying on them to make the determination about you know if there's an accessibility issue you know there we would then to those vehicles or get those to move if they would not would not move um I think we're kind of looking at more uh what's being proposed uh by this group is more Global changes to our ordinance that would allow for some of these things to happen where there could be sign uh citations things like that issued by the city administrator um and I just want to make sure everybody's clear you know we all kind of work together as a group the Public Works director Public Safety myself and um I rely on them to kind of give me the information of what the boots on the ground are seeing so um there's no doubt it's an inconvenience to the residents you know um from time to time because of the just nature of the uh construction you know it's an 18 to 24 month process to build some of these houses so it's it's quite disruptive um that's not anything unlike I think Woodland Cove and what's been going on there but just a little different um as well so I think what we're here tonight is to kind of talk this through see if there's something city council maybe wants to do um and and see if there's some way to you know kind of find a resolution to to some of these issues maybe both shortterm and and longterm so with that I'll entertain any questions and we havek Gary here as well too so before we kind of get started into a long discussion here um what I'd like to propose is rather than an ordinance change that we address the issue and the problem cited by Mr um Smith on Hard Scrabble because basically it's a parking issue on Hard Scrabble I I'm not so certain that we need to address this Citywide I'd rather address it on Hard Scrabble because if we address it Citywide it can really lead into a lot of different issues especially when I think about Woodland Cove so I would rather focus more on Hard Scrabble and how we can resolve the issue on Hard Scrabble and um and Jack if I can is would that be fair um a fair assessment that we're trying to fix a problem on Hard Scrabble not necessarily Citywide um if you can just answer yes or no just real quick well I don't know um mad I don't know what the bre City problems are right but uh Jas and I talked about little today your idea I think you mentioned to him a couple weeks ago that sounds like a smart solution um I did want to make sure that did with him Jasper actually said something the very first time we met which I I don't want to lose sight of is and I also want to make sure he gets credit for it it's positively receed but he the first thing he said when Ron and I met with him was this wouldn't be a problem if he had been and he wasn't trying to throw the prior person over that under the bus but he said he would have known that you need to put conditions when you first development and we've talked about that too so the issue with putting conditions on and that might be an option we can talk about tonight but the issue with putting conditions on when the permit is issued is then again it's an Enforcement issue and it could also be potentially illegal um so and we'll we'll talk to our attorney about that um plus it puts another layer of of of um review if you will and on and that would have to probably be changed by ordinance as well so I think in my opinion to to fix if you will the problem more immediate L um I think if we can address the parking issue tonight that'll fix it within a few days whereas if we have to go down the path of um other types of um measures such as adding this to a building permit um that might be might be an ordinance change or or a or going the utility um route or the right of way route that also is an ordinance change so that's going to add a whole bunch more days and times to this situation so what I'm trying to do is find a permanent solution that will fix the situation more easily and and more immediately is that yeah may we propos the ordinance we're trying to find a solution we weren't okay right to tell you how to run your business in your town um so I guess I do want to come back to to Jasper's idea is that because there's going to be more development hard sure um next neighbor is going to be quickly and so and that's that's going to be part of our discussion yeah I think that has to be part of it and I don't know when you say no parking you on both sides of the street well that's going to be part of our discussion you I you the reaction yeah no we'll we'll talk about that too so and I I I know where Ry stands on that so yep um so so there's different options Okay so so the ordinance change like I said I think that's then that's Citywide and every every neighborhood is going to be different and I'm not so certain that that's a good path to go to address an issue in one neighborhood the other so if if you're comfortable not doing that then we can have a discussion of what the other options are okay I have a question I I'm still not thoroughly I still don't understand the depth of the issue is is it that when the um development vehicles are on the street that that person can't get to their house well what is the actual issue the there's a couple of issues now I know this um we've talked about this briefly and Jasper has talked about it with um our Public Safety department and says that yes there's not an issue because Public Safety Vehicles can get in and out the but the one issue that we haven't thought about is when a large vehicle is parked on the side of the Road that's on the side of the lake in front of people's or next to people's driveways when you come out of your driveway if you can't clearly see that can be a safety issue okay um the other issue is how far over they're parking are they actually still in the right of way or are they parking on people's prop properties that type of thing that would be the other issue um the other issue is noise I mean when you have these big huge trucks coming in at 7:30 or 7:00 in the morning so that that would be another issue that isn't addressed by public public safety issues um so those are some of the some of the issues that have been raised did I miss any well those are all public safety things which they're real but I don't own a $6 million home hour expens I don't know how expensive are but right you're buying peace andan you're spend a whole lot of money to have peace and quiet and and a nice neighbor having uh grows of cars there constantly and every time I've been there there been a bunch of cars and that would be fine in my neighborhood but most neighborhoods but I didn't spend $6 million for a home and I so I think that that it's inconsistent with the with the neighborhood I believe right um and unfair to those who have spent that sort of money I believe um because it's unnecessary okay my view so those those are some of the issues um so um so let me ask so the building permit thing um Jasper and I talked about that today and he said you know you could tie in so when they come in for a building permit uh they could then have to um determine where they're going to be parking their construction vehicles that would be one thing but Sarah can you tell us is that do you have to create an ordinance for that how does that work uh Madam mayor members of the council I mean I think it's too late for this one because the building permit's been issued so if there are any conditions that they're violating that's one thing you could revoke the building permit but I think you can't just be tacking on new things onto this building permit um going forward I think you would want to I basically the building permit relates to the building code so you would probably want to put an addendum in your building code that also says that you know they have to be in compliance with whatever it is that the city comes up with because that's probably not in the building code so that would need to be an addendum put in your ordinance so it you'd have to revise the ordinance correct and it's not going to help the current situation right right so so if you wanted to do something like that in future you could but um so right now the options would be no parking at all or you could just say you could say no construction parking what and what one one of the things we need to consider is what about lawn maintenance a guy comes in for lawn maintenance for some of these they can't go down some of the driveways they or even turn around so some of them Park out on the road for a short period of time what about a UPS or FedEx or the guy that's what is it Culligan you know bringing the water that kind of thing so um those would not be construction vehicles but if you have a project going on on hard scrubble you could have signs or you it could say no construction vehicles are allowed to park on the road that might be one option the other option is you could have um no parking on one side which they currently do so there's no parking on the the lake side and as you know there's that island so all the properties are basically on the lake um that doesn't necessarily address um what what Mr Smith would like as Jack pointed out I'm sorry what is your last name I'm sorry I don't mean to be disrespectful you've only seen me once okay it's Perry Perry thank you thank you um what Mr Perry is saying is these are and 6 million is probably on the low end and so um is that something do we want to protect the residents that are in this neighborhood if you will so they have to park somewhere I mean if if they can't park on the property for whatever reason they have to park somewhere Mr Smith made his money construction there's no one who knows construction better than this guy all over the country lot of urban areas so that's why he's been I think Jas will confirmed he's been wildly patient for two years and he's he's not looking as and Lor said he's not trying to fix this situation it's not going to happen for the done he's looking ah head forward and he's going to he can live through it it's just said this is just thingss is stupid we should be able to solve this problem um because he's done it in every urban area whether it's New Jersey New York anywhere he's done it you can do it and that's why Jas made the comment it's if you start at the beginning you say this is what you need to do then people stage it corly you can stage it on the size of these these Lots it's easy to Stage construction vehicles uh you do not need to have them on the road that's just convenience to the developers um nothing against developers but most we have a lot of clients developers but they do not need to stage on the street no one else allows that there's that subdivision if you remember it just came in a couple months ago um on County Road 44 and it was one lot they subdivided into two I'll guarantee you those construction workers are not going to be parking on County Road 44 so they when they when they do the lot of a lot whatever the driveways and whatever I'm I'll guarantee you that they had to figure out where those where those Vehicles had then we do need to change the ordinance well we could and and if that's what we want to do we could do that if I may um you know if if I guess my point with if we talk about this ahead of time it's at least a conversation that we could have with the builder to say well what are you going to do with the parking you know if we want to have some teeth to it we could have the ordinance I'd just be prepared you know on these sites I'm looking at them right now I mean there might be some tree removals that would have to there be some tree Replacements then um some grading things like that that would have to be done you know before you know during construction whereas I think there's been some appetite from Planning Commission city council to save as many trees you know not do things to the landscape so just be prepared there would be some additional costs potentially but that would be a cost that would you know be more convenient for the neighborhood so those things I think you can trade off but um you know my point was at least have the conversation about parking what are you going to where you going to park your construction vehicles kind of take some notes and hopefully they they stick to it if we want to have some teeth then it would be an ordinance update that we would have to do to our um building code which could be done it could be it could be worked into our process both um administratively you know with with building permit approvals that don't hit city council or Planning Commission and then the ones that that do so the ones like you know a subdivision or something like that then that could be something that is a talking point to to ask that question of the developer okay so it's it's it's we're looking for direction um like Miss s Sola said this one is more challenging because that P the permit's already been issued so I think we're maybe trying to find a short-term solution for this issue and maybe a long term globally for the the community um that makes sense at least to have I think to have that conversation about parking cuz there will be more lots that get subdivided and you know in these challenging areas but on you know to Mr Perry's point it's true if you're doing a large construction project you should have somebody manage that and you could manage it in terms of how many vehicles are going to be there I think there's um I could be wrong though in minetonka Beach I think they have an ordinance Citywide that says no construction vehicle parking on their streets do you know oh I do you know that so I did a little research with this and and um reached out they do have it on the books they have said it's very difficult to enforce and and knowing minaka Beach they have very small lots and very narrow streets so I'm sure that's why they did it but not unsimilar to to hard scrubble but um it is is it's it is more difficult now what you could do is you could do kind of both you could do say for certain areas of the city that there is a review and they need to kind of indicate how they're going to handle the construction parking but you could also say for this let's say um interim if you will no parking on either side you know and then and then we'd have another year to discuss it um or another six months to discuss it or bring it back to see how how an addendum to our ordinance would work okay so so if if to fix this immediate situation we want to say no parking on either side that's what we want to do so if someone wants to build a deck on hard travel those Builders would also not be able to park on the street or the lawnmower companies no the lawn mow why are they why do they get to do it and not these people generally like a FedEx they're there for five minutes or six minutes right but a lawn M company's not they're usually there for an hour maybe at the most depends on how many homes they do on the street I've got one company that has five homes on my street they're there for a couple hours right so if if we're going to do no parking then no one gets to park there I mean I I understand that he doesn't like the construction trucks or the vehicles and trust me I deal with it all day I live in Woodland Cove I see it all the time I'm missing curbs all over my neighborhood right now I get it um if we do no parking it's not just for construction workers then it's everybody because okay I have a friend over who parks on the street how are the police going to know it's a friend vehicle instead of a construction vehicle what if they're having a party a graduation party and people park on the street I'm not saying no parking I'm saying no construction parking and you can pretty much tell when it's a construction company parking on the street if it's a car or even a van or or whatever I mean you can pretty much tell if what if somebody has a graduation party on hard scrub yeah do you think the construction companies are going to come I know they work on Saturdays so if if there's a party on a Saturday and people Park on Hard Scrabble mhm they get to park there but the construction companies don't get to have their workers park there is is that literally what we're saying well how all right how do you want to solve we've got an immediate problem and we know that 75% of these homes are built but there's still an immediate problem that needs to be resolved what's the immediate solution I think realistically they can only Park on one side of the street I I don't know how you say these people can park there these people can't okay and I've seen some construction workers who have very nice trucks so is the officer going to go and find out if it's a visitor to this home versus a construction just because of where it's parked I think what we're talking about is the very large um construction vehicles with their trailers um those those are the type of things something that's very identifiable as a construction vehicle and usually it's going to be like if it's a big Ford pickup truck it's going to have a big trailer behind it and they're and so where they're going to park they're going to park on the property that's being built well that's what we would like them to do okay yeah so are you talking about like the trucks that are delivering like the the framing and the pipes and all that well they don't I mean they don't stick around Long at least they don't in W link Cove like they drop off the stuff and then leave it depends if I may I think what we're kind of saying is the the enforcement or admin side of this too which is I think we have concerns about you know because right now most of this is all complaint driven so we'd have to receive a complaint from a resident saying oh I think there's a construction if we go down that path it it becomes problematic pretty quickly um to do the admin side of it so um a solution like one side or not is a little bit easier to enforce because then we can enforce it and it's not arbitrary um if that's the the path you want to go you know so the immediate fix is kind of it's challenging you know the longer term to build it into processes to have the conversation or put conditions or you know change the code that's a little bit easier the short term is very challenging um because I would stress we wouldn't want to create like a bunch of administrative issues with enforcement of anything you know that that's the that's the one challenge that I think we have or one of the few challenges that we'd have but just doing no parking and then trying to determine if it's a construction worker or a grad party or a you know just somebody visiting or a landscaping company it just gets really really challenging pretty quickly I don't think we want to overburden our police more than we have to I think chief BS was here I think he made it pretty clear last time that whatever we do should be reasonable and not something that they're going to be called out there dozens of times okay I think at the very least no parking on one side and doing that permanent um but I think also in the future I I'd really like to take a look at maybe adding some language to the ordinance saying you know give us give us some feedback or give us some ideas as to where you are going to do your construction parking because it the other issue I look at is is is our road I mean we've just recently finished it do we really want heavyduty Vehicles parking on that road for lengthy periods of time especially in the summertime when it's hot Gary okay okay I'll be honest with you they need they need to build I mean they're going to but if you go through Woodland Cove thank you they're all over parked on the New Roads they're dumping Rock on the roads they're dumping sand they're dumping everything for Landscaping on the road because God forbid we put in the driveway where it's supposed to be let's destroy the millions of dollars worth of City infrastructure instead so to go on that route I mean it's all over it's terrible I mean you know if you want to start with something start with getting the lscape rock everything off the road that's destroying because enough if you ever watch the Bobcat scoop up Rock off a brand new road gouges everything up can't put in their driveway because they don't want it there I don't want it on AR Street either so I mean but if they weren trucks are going to go everywhere they're going to go I mean it's if they weren't allowed to park on the road that wouldn't happen but they don't park on the road they drop and I know what you're talking about the people who on will andf Parkway who dropped a bunch of mulch and everything all over the road and then dragged it across the road into their property no vehicle was parked there they dropped the load and left and I this is a problem all over the city I mean it's not just there I mean it's you know it it's all over I mean we see it I mean they see it all the time you know how do you enfor the stuff we don't know I mean it's it's tough you know we call these guys they come out there they have the people moving but it's too late you know I mean it's and I mean the only in my experience of living in Woodland Cove the only big trucks that are sitting on the road for extended periods of time are the cement trucks who have to wait for the one to finish pouring the foundation and then do it and then and then they leave like the dump trucks Don't Stay along the big trucks dropping off the forms for the basement don't stay along and it's incredibly inconvenient and Incredibly Loud and Incredibly annoying and and in my experience the faster you let them get it done the faster they're gone I mean I I was the third home on my street I I've lived it I drive by it every day the truck I was behind a dumped truck today dumping a lot of rock where a driveway is going to go it's annoying and loud and then they go away they drop the load they leave they don't stick around yes the 50 construction workers parking there are there all day but I don't know how we differentiate the construction vehicle versus a private vehicle going there if they have to build the home it has to go somewhere that's I think why we're also saying we could do the addendum and kind of at least do a review of how they're where the construction vehicles are going to be parking and we could do an emphasis on larger Lots not necessarily Woodland Cove I understand there's probably not I mean it's really hard to compare Woodland Cove to Hard Scrabble I mean it's it's it's like apples and oranges it's there's no comparison whereas the addendum could specifically kind of call out certain um neighborhoods and say you know in these neighborhoods we want to review at least review where they're going to be parking what the hours of parking are going to be and that kind of thing I I think that would be in everybody's best interest for the neighborhood yeah I think it's I know that Woodland kovis is different because they have small very small lots and and a lot lots and lots of homes it's not just like one home so I think I think we should go down that path so you want to change the ordinance I I think we should look at the um building um review ordinance and do a a slight amendment to it and just say when when a building permit comes in for maybe we need to name the um neighborhoods or we need to name the streets or something or we just leave it up to staff to make that determination but when they come in Woodland Co is going to be different and if we do another big development or even small development with small Lots it's going to be different we're not going to say well where are you going to park you know each each permit that comes in but for these one-offs permit permits that come in especially in the um established neighborhoods I think that's the issue here then I think we should be able to say okay now where are you going to park so if we do that it doesn't help this situation immediately that would be one thing I'd like to take a look at and the other thing I think immediately is again enforcing that at the very very least no parking on the one side and then could we could we do some kind of enforcement for the parking on the other side of ours I don't know we already have construction hours we have construction hours yeah yeah and I mean I I've been so if I may um making a point to drive through there at least two to three four times a week and like today when I when I when I talk to to Jack um there were like five vehicles parked there one larger vehicle with like a trailer that had like maybe a skid or something on it so it's still prevalent and happening um so yeah I it it enforcement is is going to be challenging especially now like you know are they able to park on site we've asked them you know we we've talked to the builders and said you know and they've said yep we can we'll do it as much as we can but some of those larger Vehicles like delivery vehicles they obviously aren't able to you know so they're going to be on the on the road for now but I think it'd be great to have that conversation um ahead of time you know and I think for the Woodland Cove a PUD is a little different you have a lot of development discussion you know and parking can be part of it but if you have a you know you know 2 acre lot that you know the house is taking up most of it you can't really park on the lot so there's you have to you have to go on the road in those PS This is a little different larger Lots there's probably room to accommodate some parking if it's thought out ahead of time it's hard to do it when the projects 90 or 75% done okay are you in agreement an yeah okay yeah that's fine okay all right that's what we'll do then um I don't know is it already posted no parking if we can do the no parking on that side permanently if you will then everybody is aware of that going forward uh if we' want to do that so right now it's been just the police chief order to do temporary no parking during this construction if that's that's something you want us to bring forward right now it's basically from that I guess Southwest side of of Hard Scrabble to um basically Mr Smith's driveway that's no parking um if we want to do the whole thing that's another probably conversation that we we could have um but we we could do that I believe via resolution that if that's right City attorney s yeah so um if we wanted to to have that we we would bring that to a future meeting for consideration if that's what we if I see people nodding okay I'm fine okay all right yes very good all right all right I could have one last comment I just is just some confusion is hopefully J you agree I I think Ron has been patient with this it's gone on I've been closer to three years and two and a whatever it's gone on for a long time he doesn't have any expectations other than mayor what you propos about parking to someone's side for rest this project his go has always been as our first meeting was Jasper is figuring out a longterm solution for the next deal and I think's view is the best way to do it because uh Council refkin am I saying that correct I'm sorry your comment is really well cities are complicated and that's why I hesitated to draft anything like how's this going to work that's why Ron liked basically his experience in in the industry from the other side is is into so hand like St administrator at the start of each project for the sensitive areas to come up with terms for that individual site of that individual develop that's the only I think thinks is really workable yeah the problem is is then we're leaving it at the discretion of the administrator and although Jasper might be sensitive to that who knows you know down the road um there may be a different administrator too so I think um going down the building permit path might be the best solution that that we can come up with for that for that neighborhood so thank you we're done that yes we are thank you yeah thank you for your time thank you all right by the way Jasper has been a wonderful person I deal with a lot of city folks I think I mentioned this last time but it's really nice to have such a a qualified and receptive reasonable voice yes thank you that's good to hear all right all right next we have City H hours yeah um I can kind of introduce it and Allie's kind of spearheaded this this conversation it went to the Personnel committee so that's basically the intro um I'll leave it to Ally to to kind of give the the background and we can answer questions together sure yeah sorry I thought you were doing this one um So currently our city hall and police department hours are each 4:30 Monday through Friday due to the low foot traffic and calls on Friday after afternoons particularly in the summer we're kind of proposing a trial period of shortened summer hours on Friday so we're proposing Monday through Thursday 7:30 to 4:30 and then Friday 7:30 to 11:30 in your packet I had some considerations that we've talked through at the staff level and then at the Personnel committee so we can just have a conversation about it and ask I can answer any questions that you have so I had a couple comments to Jasper when we talked and I said one I'm concerned because we're going from 42 1/2 hours down to about 40 hours but so my concern was more or less I want to make sure that our employees are still putting in a 40-hour work week because that's what they're being paid for and so he assured me that that would happen so that's so right I can speak to that so right now they work 8 to 4:30 half an hour unpaid lunch into 15 minute break so that's a full hour right most people take that as their lunch break this would um do 7:30 to 4:30 no hour unpaid lunch and they'd combine the two 15-minute breaks technically I mean our salaried employees it would okay it wouldn't matter for them anyway yeah but right now you know Darcy leaves for lunch for an hour comes back Renee just hangs out but they would both just hang out and eat their lunch at their desk okay and then um my other comment was I don't like that 11:30 that's like weird um so you know if you're because most people when they're thinking about what's open what's not you know they're going to go oh yeah noon you know but nobody's going to think 11:30 that's not a big deal if if noon was the direction of the city council I think that's a minor right yeah um and if I may I just want to reiterate this is a pilot you know see how it goes and if there's feedback from the we would ask if there's feedback from the residents you'd tell us immediately and you know we can end it as soon as we feel it's completely inappropriate if that's if that's the direction um or you know the idea to to kind of um do the pilot have a conversation about it see if that's something we think worked or didn't work or how can we improve on it if we want to just put it to bed forever we can do it that time but um that's kind of the idea it's like about a three minute three thre month pilot period and we wouldn't be paying over time I don't want to make I want to make that clear too no no we would not 40 hours okay okay I don't like it I was on the Personnel committee who said no um I don't like that the police department will close at noon on Fridays or 11:30 either way um I know that we've said that non-emergent calls rolled a dispatch but when my neighbor's house got entered um I won't say broken in because it was unlocked and they could get in easily they called and it went to voicemail um so if this happens at noon I I don't know why it went to voicemail didn't go to dispatch I don't know what options he selected but that's what happened um I know from looking most places that have a police force are open all day on Friday Carver County is open 800 to 4:30 Monday through Friday deep Haven Police is open 800 to 4:30 Friday Orno is open on Fridays St Bonnie obviously uses us they're open all day Fridays um Dina is open all day Fridays I I don't like the idea that we're closing the police station at noon on Fridays um also if if it's slow on Fridays great isn't there stuff everyone can be doing that they can do when they're not busy I mean are they bored is that what it is they're bored and they have nothing to do like no they're adding more hours I mean they're add they're they're still going to fulfill that's what what was my concern they're still going to do their full 40 hours of work right but it's that there's low foot traffic that's why we want to have half days but isn't there stuff they can be doing if there isn't foot traffic oh there definitely is I mean let's let's be you know honest this is this is kind of a benefit right to the employee so um we're trying to balance that out with the public you know I've done this in another community and I was very sensitive to it like because the public perception is what we rely on right um we ended up and you know you may may or may not believe this but you we we actually had more people coming in before work at the 7:30 to 8 than we did in the on the Fridays that we missed it's just another option during those time periods we probably have a lot of like building permits being picked up potentially by builders that maybe want to get you know in the morning in the morning in the morning so you know it's all about about public service right and you know in that case which it's different every City's different it was actually a net increase from you know in actual traffic because of it not saying that's going to happen here but the pilot would allow us to even see if see what's going on give us more data I mean if we we just want more if we think the earlier hours we can switch to 7:30 to 4: Monday through Friday I mean you can go earlier and stop earlier I mean that's another option as well um and then the part where is it'll still be available for prescheduled meetings but no one's going to be here well they would be for pre I think some of the exempt employees would continue to work the regular hours so yeah I'd imagine most Fridays there will be someone here I know David plans to continue to work its regular hours I probably will it's just the public hours so if I have a meeting Friday afternoon I'm still here for it a pre-scheduled meeting so what would the public do so when the public comes in what do they do what what are some of the things that they for on Friday afternoons virtually nothing I me in general in general in general it would be probably picking up a permit um paying a bill paying a bill around that time of the month some of the call Brian you probably know better than I do maybe some Utility Billing calls yeah there's obviously people coming into meet about land use items and stuff with our development and you know I'll have meetings with you know Bond counsel or different people that you know financial consultants whatever you know residents as well but those are scheduled then those are scheduled yeah so just people walking in are here to pick up building pay a bill typical I mean yeah yeah pay a bill pick up a permit call and ask questions about a permit that sort of thing okay and we I'll just note we don't get many of those on Friday afternoon typically those are beginning of the week heavy because yeah they work that week and they'll pick it up on Monday versus Friday afternoon so um I don't want to like try to be too much of an advocate for it because it's I don't know what the answer will be but um I think the fact of the matter is like we don't get that much foot traffic and there is always stuff to do so I mean if people are here we're working um so it's just kind of it's a it's kind of a benefit something that we asked you know some of our employees you know what could we do you know to you know yeah I mean everybody I mean when I worked I didn't want to work Friday afternoons in the summer or year round either I mean no a lot of a lot of companies are doing that though now they they are I think because and number one because of the uh remote uh Workforce too as well so but but in answer or kind of um addressing Kathleen's concerns about the police department how does that work then the police will still be on on duty and I mean there there's still going to be working their regular shift and so on so who's not going to be working so the administrative staff over there Amy and Lori okay and so um what kind of walk-in traffic or call Traffic do we know what kind they have I asked Paul and he said zero to two people coming in on Friday afternoons okay and then generally what is it for oh I don't know the answers to that if I may it's it's what are it's generally I mean it's a range of things it could be anything from comeing to report a scam or like today they somebody came into our lobby because they had a disturbance with their daughter and a boy that met online so it's there's no real way to know I okay there's just such a variety um but even when we close at 4:30 that that first entry into our lobby is always open with the red phone that goes directly dispatched I can't speak to um the neighbor that called and got voicemail but yeah cuz like last night we had somebody come in or I shouldn't say last night last week when I was working we had somebody come in at like 7:00 yeah and within a minute or two we got the notification dispatch yeah and if and if they call like a direct line over there like one of their direct lines that'll go to their voicemail but if they're calling the public number the non emergent number that goes to the front desk and then is rolled to dispatch so we each have our own direct number and then there's the public number so they could have gotten so if they dial the 446 1131 number that goes to like say Amy or Lori and then if they're not there it directly rolls over immediately or if you will to um dispatch yeah so when they when they leave for the day they roll our phones that non-emergency number over to H County dispatch mhm [Music] okay yeah I mean if you have more information on that Cil member African I could look into it it could have been where they called the front desk and then they were maybe on the line and then I don't know if that we could test it to see if then that would kick to maybe Lori or Amy's voicemail if it was during business hours I'm guessing that could have been the but we I'm guessing they call the direct line would be my thought is they got Amy or Lor's kind of direct line not their public number got their voicemail if you get a we hand out our business cards quite often to and it has you know our direct line outside of the supervisors and the investigator it automatically goes to voicemail the officers don't have their own desk pH oh good point yeah so so let's say just for example officer Anderson was out there you know handed a a business card said hey you know this is my information and then they just that's the number he picked up and they might not have differentiated between the non-emergency and then their direct number so if you call any officer's direct number it does automatically go straight to voicemail it we'll say you've reached you know officer Anderson with Min or whatever his aging is but no yeah so I mean obviously they need whatever the E if it's an emergency 911 is the best one to call really okay yeah hi Claudia hi I was you you did you're doing good no jet leg or anything so welcome thank you so I you probably haven't had a chance to review a whole lot so but if you have questions please um ask on this I I I can't stand it when I go to a place of business and it's closed and I'm thinking it's normal business hours but you said that it really doesn't affect anybody it seems like it doesn't I think it there will be minimum impact on residence correct is it unreasonable to have a phone number if you know on the door for someone that's here to answer it and just say let me have someone call you back first thing Monday yeah I mean we could put on our auto attendant that we had and had during covid when we were remote we could do that at the end of the day as well I mean if if if if what you say is true which I'm sure it is then maybe one person might call yeah yeah and you know we could still have who ever in the office answer that call as well I mean the phones ring to all of us too and if someone's here I can't imagine they're they ignore it but yeah I mean for phone calls that come in after that noon we could just put on our auto attendant and they can click two and then get to the building department if Robert's there he can pick it up if not it'll go to his voicemail so we could do something like that but what maybe even I think what you're refering is on the door have a phone number saying you know uh for summer hours blah blah blah closing at noon um if you have a concern or immediate need call this number whatever yeah that's a good ide I mean I like that one thing we didn't really touch on was like there's going to have to be some you know public education about this too right and um that could be one of the things that we let them know is hey if you're if it's after hours you know call this number somebody May answer but you can leave a voicemail and they'll get back on Monday you know or something like that'll be a cell phone that is a direct line for people who want to call on Friday afternoons and one of us just has it you know and available if they need to get in touch with somebody but we could brainstorm some yeah I think we could find a solution yeah it wouldn't we're saying we don't know for sure but we're saying it probably won't happen very frequently but if it is I mean it'd be nice to have that as an option I suppose if somebody comes in and they're thinking it's regular business hours and they want to you know give us a piece of their mind or whatever you know then they they could at least call I mean you know I'm just thinking like someone takes the day off to get chores done and they come to City Hall and it's closed but yeah you say no one really comes but and I think that's pretty typical after hours now I mean if I get a voicemail at 5 I listen to it and respond if it's urgent and can't wait till tomorrow you know well especially if they start at 7:30 which I think you know so that might help if people need to do something before work um that like Jasper said we this is like a test period so if it doesn't work it doesn't work you know we can end it if it's not working yeah but an I I worked at cies with both ways I always thought it was a perfect being in Minnesota because the summers are so short yeah yeah so I I have no problem okay will you be happier on Monday if you get Friday I don't even know if I will personally be working these hours but I'm always and Council can still reach all of all of Staff um even you okay Gary no Gary's off limitary will be happy um okay and then yes I think our front of office and I think for sure to some kind of notification on the door and the police door would be good you know even though there's nobody there and they can still walk in um maybe some instructions I don't know sure um yeah I think that's a good idea because and again all of our police officers are still going to be there they're to work their normal shifts and their normal hours it's just basically Amy and well and the chief might not be there or may or may not but and I quite honestly didn't know there was a phone in that front place until this so I mean even that communication is good yeah it's it's posted after hours too how to use the phone right when you come in there's a sign that's posted for that so yeah but if you're offering we'll leave early on Friday so um if we do this could you give us a monthly update like at the end of June I'll have the girls kind of track complaints questions feedback but only for Friday afternoon yeah I mean we don't we we'll probably we'll probably track 7:30 to 8 too to see if it's increased traffic yeah um in the early morning yeah that might be yeah helpful okay okay all right if if I may do we want is this is this good where it's at right now do you want us to bring this back for official just consent agenda um did you want noon I I would like noon I know it's weird but it's like you know 11:30 who's going to you know noon is still people will remember noon but they're not going to remember 11:30 no okay okay okay yeah I don't know do we need a resolution would you like a resolution I think if it becomes permanent maybe at that time okay so we're just going to give you a KN of approval for for this uh Tri it'll be effective Memorial Day to Labor Day that's what most cities do if they have summer hours so the day after Memorial Day and the day before Labor Day yes okay correct that's more normal summer I Know M does like April through October which seems crazy to me but not all right okay um next the Personnel policy hopefully this will be quick discussion if I if I may Madam mayor members of council uh we discussed this um I can't remember the day it was well January 8th it's right in the memo um and and from there we uh that was a long time ago we uh we we worked with legal council at Kennedy and Graven Mary teachin to try to find a solution I think we had a good idea what we were trying to accomplish um we have an eeo statement in our uh Personnel policy which covers Us um and it you know the specific examples that were listed in our Personnel po policy are um League of Minnesota City's you know suggestions they're not required it's you know as as it states in the memo as long as we have a a solid eeo statement that covers all the protected classes we're we're fine so what we're proposing is basically um redlining those areas out that were in question um and just you know effectively if if approved it's on the consent agenda tonight um we would then update our Personnel policy send that out to staff and and those would then be removed um those specific examples which you know at the end of the day it's it's how we um handle it as a staff and as a city as opposed to the specific examples that there's always a lot more factors that go into it then you can really write down so that's what's being proposed um I'm not sure if there's other uh conversations discussions that you want to have but um really it's it's on consent tonight if if there would like to be more conversation we can have that now or or at the regular meeting no nope no than consent good to go all right thank you um all right good job um next we move on ditto all right engineering Professional Services agreement review yes uh thank you Madame mayor um this should be fairly quick too um this is something that I kind of had earmarked when I when I got started you know kind of modernizing some of our agreements this one hadn't been updated officially the master Services agreement since 2005 um and as I mentioned in the uh memo there hasn't been any retainer adjustments since 2005 either and I want to be clear WSB wasn't complaining about this it's it it's partially on me partially on them to just modernize this thing and as part of it is is to outline you know what does that retainer look like um moving forward into the future so um there's been a lot of uh back and forth between legal council and WSB to kind of get the master Services agreement lined up and and have terms that uh represent the city well and WCB was very good at making those adjustments they basically you know I think I think Sarah said we want this and they said okay you know one of those I think that's what good going Sarah but you know I I know Sarah used examples from other communities that have agreements with engineering groups WSB included to to try to make sure that what we have is representative of what the market is and you know that protects the city um the main thing that um I negotiated and had more of a conversation with WSB about was the retainer fee um there's an initial proposal to maybe have a little bit larger increase in 2025 um talking with with Brian as well we thought well it'd be nice just to have kind of a a steady increase of $250 a month each year up until 2028 and then after 2028 it'll be followed by a 3% annual adjustment which in 2028 that'll be about $105 annually so um looking at monthly monthly monthly sorry y monthly um I reached out to some other communities that I've I've worked in just to see like what do they have you know what kind of increases are you seeing um here and as everybody here knows the business model for these engineering groups they're not making their their hay on this retainer agreement it's the projects that come along with it so um we want to make sure it's fair um and and representative and and what I found through that research was that this is this is in the ballpark and maybe even it's it's pretty good I think the fact that we haven't had an increase in almost 20 years is you know Ben benefited the city a little bit but um what we have here and just to be clear this agreement allows for either party to um to uh get out of the agreement with 30 days notice for no cause um 10 days notice with cause just to be clear so um and then you'll also see what what you'll what what we've done with a2s with the water engineering you'll see these task orders so task order one I included it in this for reference too so you know what that'll look like um but that outlines some of the um the the fees and stuff like that too so we'll still get the annual update for the for our fee schedule for like the development um engineering fees all those things that we've gotten um each year but this this just basically modernizes the agreement I feel um and I feel it you know protects the city pretty well so I'll entertain any questions I know Sarah's Bor into the nuts and bolts of the actual agreement um terms um but with that we'll entertain any questions no I went through it in detail and I thought it was very well written and that's it I'm fine I'm just so they didn't come to us wanting new fees well they'll the retainer fees they they didn't come to us wanting to change the retainer fees not so we are willingly I would say would you like more would you like more money it's came up in the past yeah it's been asked at least it's come up here's here's I think more importantly again $100 a month or whatever isn't OB bigy but I think more importantly is we needed to update and make sure that the current contract is updated that's that's the more important thing and part of the contract is the retaining fee and as uh Brian has pointed out it has come up a few times so now that we're upgrading updating updating the contract it includes the retaining fee retainers fee my my question so yes and no I guess if that's an answer but um also um I I don't know I I didn't read it line item by line item so thank you for doing that that's great um Does it include so I know we've added since the original one that um Allison does a Buy weekly update or report or whatever is that included in their um monthly um fee it is it is that's part of the retain that's fine I just wanted to make sure it was included and one of the things that also changes you know I don't know if this model's changed but but Gary and Ellison work closely together and we have office time that works out well you know um what this allows or what the task order one will allow is for Gary to kind of say Alison I'd like you hear on these days you know for this many hours a week it's not just set off office hours cuz as you know like you know if they're not doing something for w or for Min Trista they're in the office no matter what right so it kind of allows Gary to refine when Allison's here what she's doing she's open to this too um it's just more efficient and less like you know I'm just going to be in the office just to be in the office every Tuesday Tuesday two hours so she might be in on a Tuesday for an hour but then the next week she might be Wednesday in for 3 hours or something like that something like that yeah and it's you know it's supposed to be around 12 hours a week is what it's supposed to be um we talked about reducing that we thought well let's just we can always make that modification if things change we're there's now is the busy period of time right I think with a lot of the construction stuff that's going on and leading up to that but just so you know that's kind of changed it's Gary's fully in charge of that so you might not if you're used to seeing Allison here at a set set hours every you know what is it Tuesdays and wedes it was um you know that might change so if you want to meet with Alison just email or caller and things change up during construction season too CU we have our construction meetings and stuff with the contractors so um on those weeks we have those during the summer you know she switches her off of s cuz a lot of times they don't fit into their schedule we have to work on the contractor schedule so might like for our Recon project is on Thursday afternoons so I mean we changes that around uh we're see come in handy is like winter when we're really slow don't really kind of you know need them here as much but then vice versa in the summer they're here a lot more so when we need them you know so it kind of balance it out less you know right probably get the same amount of hours but just when we need them more than when we don't yeah that makes sense right okay yeah so what I'm hearing is we're we're okay with this um what you'll see J Sarah again you'll see this on uh the consent agenda at our next meeting I think it's next meeting May 6 okay I believe okay all right and um wow we're done we were just so agreeable takes up Kathy not just sorry all right with that um motion to adjourn so moved thank you is there a second second thank you and made that second all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes 40 and we will be back in an hour