is the uh work session for the city of Ministrista, August 18th, 2025. It's 5:00. We have two items on our agenda. Um we're going to discuss the 2026 levy. And then we're also going to get a water treatment plant funding update. And then um so to start out, I'm just going to say who's here. We have Brian Grim, our finance director. Jasper Krugal, our city administrator. I'm Lisa Whan, the mayor. Council members present are Claudia Lacy and Brian Govern and Peter Vickery and um what's her name again? No, just I told you I was tired today. And then Peter and then um Gary Peters who is our public works director is also here. Is there anybody remotely? >> Um I believe Ann Meerhoff is >> and Mayerhoff is also participating and taking notes remotely. So with that, I'm going to hand it over to Brian for the levy discussion. >> Yes, madame mayor and council. So what would council like me to do? Go through the PowerPoint again or maybe just see if anyone has any questions regarding the PowerPoint and the documents from last time. >> Good question. Do you want to go through the PowerPoint? >> No, go through questions. >> Questions. Let's do questions and so um I'm going to start at the end. Brian, do you have questions? Yeah, just a foundational question. Um, so for the Could you explain to me how the net and gross like what goes into that? I'm not used to seeing that in that uh context. >> Yeah. Um, maybe go to >> page five. >> Well, there's one on two. It says, >> I'm in the power. >> Yeah. >> Um, oops, I went a little too far, didn't I? To touch it. >> So, what's the difference and why is there an This is what we actually send to the county. And um >> Oh, I was Okay, I know what I was doing. I got it now. >> Maybe hit the back button versus the forward button. That's the key, right? >> I thought hitting left versus right would do it, but it's big arrows on the thing, I guess. So, um here I'll be here in a second here. Um, so yeah, our gross is about it's 150,000. So the gross the 7.838 365 that's what we'd send to the county. Basically that would be our in our resolution and and we would send that as a certified levy to them. There's a program that's called fiscal disparities that we've been getting aboutund you know about 150,000 on average that the way I understand it takes into the account like all the commercial properties in this is it a nine county or or something or seven county region and I think you're either a distributed in or get a receiver out because we don't have that much commercial property we've usually gotten a little bit of money through that program so then I think this year I think I just got the updated number I think it's like 148,000 or something roughly. So, it's close to what I estimated. So, that comes off the top of that and actually then the net levy that goes to our residents is that 7688,000. >> Okay. So, >> it's Yeah, basically, you know, we're saying we need this much and then the county saying we'll give you basically roughly 150,000 through this program. Then what gets uh sent to our residents from the city levy is this basically just shy of the 7.7. >> Okay. >> Million. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> Yeah. And that's why like the difference in the percentage increase, you know, can be like, you know, one can be 10.1 and one can be 9.9 because it's just a smaller a little smaller number into a different number versus a bigger into a bigger. So basically, >> okay,% increase. So >> and then on the um in the packet for there it mentioned and sorry my computer's been rebooting for 25 minutes. >> Um it uh it expresses the property tax. It says like 20 1% versus like >> oh is it the tax tax rate maybe the >> tax rate tax rate >> could you explain how I'm used to seeing property tax rate in mills so I'm not sure what that percentage means >> so the property tax rate is basically taking that net levy of like 7.7 million into what's called our tax capacity which is >> the total taxable value >> taxable value of the >> all properties >> y yeah and our our market value is over a billion, but when you get the tax capacity, it's um it's a lower number because it's based on a percentage of our market value set by the state property or it's by the state for our property tax formulas. So, we take that um 7 million our tax capacity is like about 36 million roughly or so. So, you get a basically a >> Well, you have to explain tax capacity. So, tax capacity is set by the state. They say you cannot um tax or levy taxes any more than I number. Okay. And it's based on it's based on the amount of so it's you said it's 36% of your tax total taxable amount. So let's just say it's 100% and you can now tax I mean so they they set a limit if you will. >> Okay. >> Sort of sort >> I mean it's more Yeah. I don't know if you this is the way I look at it. So, your your your your um um tax rate, if you take the value of your home and you figure out what 1% of that is. So, let's say you own a $500,000 home, you're you're you're looking at $5,000. So, then you look at what we actually tax that person from the city side and if we're at 20% and your home is worth five 500,000 and you have 5,000 of that's 100%. If we taxed you $5,000 for the city stuff, that would be we're at a 100% tax rate. If we tax you $1,000, then you're at 20%. So, it's just kind of how you back into that calculation. And it's based on >> it's a total value. It's a total valuation of all the properties within the city. And you can't levy more than 100%. And we're only levying. >> You can sometimes there's there's levy limits set by the legislature. It's probably bad form to go above 100, but um >> but you can do as much as you want right now. Um but in the past there have been levy limits set. >> Yeah. >> But what the tax rate does is it basically shows somebody um for the same value home. So, if you're comparing a $500,000 home in Minatrista versus in in, let's say, uh, Maple Plane, their tax rate is probably like 53% and our tax rate is 21%. So, you're going to pay less taxes, if you will. Uh, not necessarily, but it's based on their levy, but so you you want to look at the tax rate as well. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> So, >> and there's communities that have less value in their community. So then a lot of times their tax rates are a lot higher because they still need the same amount of money to operate >> but their tax rate might be 80% on a right $150,000 home versus you know so it's just a way to kind of equalize the field and compare cities. >> Is there a cap on >> let's say $5 million home? >> No. So there's no cap right now. Legislatively from time to time they'll do it when I don't know the last time I think was like the mid 90s. Does that does that sound right or >> No, no, no. They had caps in the early >> 2000s, >> early to mid 2000s, but then it wasn't a rate cap. It was a percentage cap. In other words, they cap the amount of levy increase that you could do. And it was between 2 and 3% usually. Um, and this was back in the it was like early to mid 2000s. Um, so you couldn't raise your your levy more than like three I think there was one three or three and a half%. Um, and then it excluded debt. >> Yes. >> So, you could still issue debt and that wasn't included in your total levy increase. But, so they didn't really cap the the rate, but they capped the amount you could increase your levy by. >> Well, then they just raise your house value. >> Yes. >> By 40. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because like if you had because like here, like let's say we had a a levy a cap of 3 and a half%. um I don't know what that would be from 25 to 26 then our levy would be um >> like $210,000 >> $210,000 more. So um the the problem with that is it not every community is the same. And so some communities need more money, some need less, especially if you're a growing community. So um they haven't done a um a a levy cap for quite a while. >> Okay. Yeah, >> but every four years they can raise your tax the value of your home. >> Every year every year every year county can raise the value of your home. >> Well, the assessor takes a look at it and then determines >> but I think they come out and do like these quartiles or something like for certain. That's >> that's when they do like the full quintile look at your home more in depth, but basically they'll they'll adjust them every year based on uh related sales in your neighborhood or your area or whatever. right? >> Kind of a a 10,000 foot or you know look >> and and then the other thing we need to understand is um for the county taxes not so much for our taxes but for the county taxes because of the shift in valuation between the commercial properties in downtown Minneapolis that now because they've diminished significantly. So what happens is the commercial properties have gone down like this and residential properties have gone up. Now residential properties are carrying a larger portion of the tax levy that Henipin County levies across the county. So that's the other reason you're seeing a bigger increase in the Henipin County taxes is one one reason. I think the Henipin County tax rates closer to probably upper 30s 40% where our our tax rate is at, you know, that 21%. So that's where I think I showed even in those slides last times the county portion, you know, on a $650,000 home is, you know, they're collecting a lot more than us or whatever because it's based on the the tax rates and the >> the calculation there. Yeah. The la the last I checked they didn't send this out last year but I think in 2023 we were in the top 10 lowest in Hipin County. >> We are because of um the valuations of our homes. So a better comparison might be like to Orino or to Madina because they have similar home values and probably real similar I'm guessing but I don't know for sure similar um levies. So, um I think Oro is one of the lowest tax in the teens or whatever. >> Yeah, they were at one time at 17. I think they might be like 19 or something like that right now. But >> but if you look at their taxes per capita, it's higher than ours because they levy like more like 8 and a half n million and their population is not much different. So, >> so there's different ways of looking at it. >> Okay, good deal. Thank you. And then one substantive question about the numbers. Um looking at the uh thing I it looks like um we're projecting um building license um revenues to be about half of the previous year. Were we able to identify any variable costs to take down since we'll be doing much less work like that? I mean, a lot of it's fixed in s, you know, salaries and stuff or whatever of the obviously the building inspector and building official. >> Um, I know I know you want to talk. >> Yeah. So, you know, we we we kind of anticipate there being about 50 homes in Woodland Cove available in 2026. So, that basically cuts it in half a little bit. It's actually more closer, I think, to like 55 60% reduction. Um what we've done is we've met with uh David Ael and myself have met with Victoria. We've done this in the past where we partnered with them to potentially do some work and we're looking at that. We're kind of developing terms but that happened in 2010 where we were helping them out. Um or was it >> they were helping us out? They were helping us out. In this >> case it would be us helping them out and that might generate some revenue depending on if they're busier than us. So, they're they're kind of like us. They're in kind of this pattern where they have a lot of potential. Um they're still building houses, but next year might be a slow year for them, too. So, um >> when you say helping them, what would that mean? >> Oh, yeah. >> So, and this all goes to city council. So, this is just something that we're doing a little leg work on um to maybe re reboot. But um basically it's a negotiated rate for which our guys or our people go down and do inspections for them and vice versa. So we would generate some revenue by let's say our guys aren't as busy because there aren't houses being built. There's still other stuff that goes on that just doesn't generate as much revenue as like a house, but there's deck deck builds, um roofs, remodels, you know, stuff like that, but the revenue really takes a hit because they're not new homes. So they'll still be busy and they'll still be doing quite a bit of stuff in Minitris. It just won't see as much on the revenue side because there's only 50 homes maybe available. But to supplement that a little bit, we don't know what it means because we don't know exactly what's going to happen in Victoria either, but you know, if we can generate an extra, you know, 50,000 dollars, that helps out on the bottom line. We're not budgeting for anything at this point because we just don't know. But there's some of that going on. But, you know, the housing market es and flows. You know, I think we have next year might be a slow year, but I mean, there's potential for something to >> Yeah. >> You know, in a in a in a year or two, you know. So, um you know, I don't think we're to the point where we want to, you know, scale anything back or anything like that. We still need to meet like the minimum service level, but um you know, these things fluctuate year to year. >> Okay. And so, Okay. And so, but most of the costs are fixed, so there's not much we can >> Correct. Yep. Yep. Yeah. It's mostly salaries and um >> there's ways to account for some of this stuff too. Um you know because sometimes there's you know more revenue generated in that fund than what they use and that that kind of offsets the years that are a little bit slower. So but we've had pretty good years as you know the last five years or so. >> Good deal. >> That's the end of my questions. Okay, Claudia. >> No. >> Then Peter, >> uh, well, I'm going to, uh, add on to what Brian was asking about. Um what other um on the revenue side u it seems like things are pretty stable but from like outside um sources like uh police getting funding and so on from outside metros how variable are those um outside inputs or revenues >> like grants and stuff task force and that or >> yeah um >> yeah I mean some of it's more stable than others like the the general police aid they get is based on the number of officers and through the state pool. So that's pretty stable. That's that number has been like about 150 170,000. Um the drug task force revenue can you know has been 100,000 but it could be you know so there can be a little fluctuation there. Um I'm trying to think some of the other you know revenue sources. I mean the bigger ones >> DWI that fluctuates a little bit and the fines have been pretty um stable. you know, it's usually 30 40,000 a year for just the what we get for the your general traffic tickets and stuff or whatever. Um, I mean, the investment revenues fluctuated for a few years ago, the market value investment revenue was, you know, almost negative. I think a year or several years back, you know, based on just everyone's portfolio, excluding the cities, you know, >> um, what interest rate are you figuring for the um, interest? >> I mean, our our overall because some things we've got locked in. So I mean our our money market rates probably about at you know still hanging in about four four and a quarter. >> That's what you're projecting >> but a little lower because some things we got locked in from earlier. So the weighted average in the portfolio is probably closer to you know 3% or so just because some things you know we even have some things dropping off still that are at a half a percent a percent because four or five years ago half a percent you know 1% looks good pretty good. Now it doesn't so much, you know. So, um, so yeah. So, not not quite as far as four, probably closer to two and a half, three is what I've sort of plugged in for >> Okay. >> interest. >> Okay. And then, uh, a while ago you you brought up, uh, that our software for the whole city might need to or will need to be replaced at some point. Um, I don't see anything in the budget for that. Is is that something we should start funding for so that we're not >> could I mean I think um I think there's yeah a couple different ways to to do it. I think I think last year's budget we had plugged in maybe like 50 or 100,000 and try to do it over several years and I think at the time the council had said maybe can stretch that out and make banyan work for a few more years or whatever and look at that um maybe closer to the out years you know 28 930 or something. So I don't know I mean it probably be something where the city will reach a point where you know maybe whether it's five seven you know three five seven years probably closer to five or seven where maybe our software will be out need something a little more robust. >> Couldn't couldn't we up or couldn't we use equipment certificates for that? I mean if we had to >> it probably be some other funding source because it really you know it's more software versus like I mean versus I don't know you know >> you could we'd have to figure out the funding source. >> Yeah. Potentially could use some sort of you know onetime source. are levying for um capital improvements. So CIP >> yeah have some technology type you know every year >> but our CIP can include technology >> CIP levy can include technology so if we're levying you know 150 or 200,000 we could one year designate that or ramp it up or whatever >> I think so >> just with all the other priorities going on at the city right now sort of we staff had pulled that out I guess for now I guess unless council wants us to add that back in. Okay. Well, and uh then the other kind of big project that seems like we've pushed off into the future is uh uh the ADA compliance uh and that concerns me if you know we have a citizen or somebody come in that needs that and we don't have it. So wondering if that's something we can start thinking about sooner rather than later. where what what's the bathrooms aren't ADA compliant, are they? >> There's a there's a few things front doors don't have the plungers to open. Um the bathrooms this area is not ADA compliant. There's other public areas that >> um likely need to have some work done to them. We don't exactly know what what that is. The way that this project would start off is a is a needs assessment, ADA needs or facility needs assessment, and then they'd >> give us a list and then we'd have to develop a scope to to meet that. And >> um I think the rationale for 2030 is partially because um the uh levy for the uh the annual debt levy for the police building, the public works garage drops off right around 2030ish or whatever. So, >> and this one is already gone. >> Yes, this was 1990 or whatever. So 9091 or something. >> Okay. >> I just brought that up because for example in my in my building it is definitely not ADA compliant and I have a lot of elderly people that come there. But I'm grandfathered in because it's remained what it's been forever. And I make the effort when I know you know an elderly group's coming in. I I really make an effort to get things out of the way so they can the bathroom is never going to be AJ because that would put us out of business just to updo the bathroom. >> So if we knew we were having an event here, which we don't really have that much traffic here, >> right? >> We could prop the door open or we could have someone standing there to open the door. I mean, when I think of the insane cost just to do a little thing like put a plunger on the door for the one person, five people a year that might need that. Again, I'm not in that position, but you know, um I have a really close friend uh who is an amputee from Afghanistan and and he he expects, you know, sometimes someone will open his door. I'm just saying he would even say as a resident of Minatrista, save that money, have someone open the door for you. Well, you can't because for instance, like this afternoon, um, if somebody came in to apply for a permit, you can't have somebody standing at the door 24, you know, during >> someone right there and they can run out and open the door. I I'm just trying to be uber practical with our money. >> Well, that that makes sense, but it's also a liability, too. >> I'm hearing all these things. >> At some point, it needs to get done. the logic of waiting till that debt comes off makes sense because it's not going to be cheap >> cuz you know there's other things too we might want to do besides just ADA compliance um there might be other things that >> here's got a list >> yeah so but that's again so to answer your question Peter you know we're thinking about that maybe in 2029 2030ish kind of thing in the meantime Claudia will be opening the door just No problem doing that. >> It's in your door. >> All right. >> Happy to do it. >> And there's an event. >> I mean, I guess we should see how it goes in future years, but it's something I think should always be on the table. >> And we have to address, you know, the comments by the public as they come in, too. If we have a council member that needs assistance, too. I know, you know, that might warrant something sooner than later, >> right? Um, so we'll keep an eye on it, but if there's an appetite to move it up, >> it's about a probably a year leadup from the feasibility or the the needs assessment to actually a project. So we want to move it up a year, we just move that needs assessment up a year or we can do that at >> and you and the other thing is you don't have to do everything all at once. You could do it in chunks. So it might be maybe in 2027 we do a needs assessment, figure out what is needed and then maybe you can start if you need needed to do a chunk here or a chunk there. You know, you would have to do everything. >> Yeah. >> But um yeah, >> sounds good. >> Okay, >> that's it for >> keep that in mind for 2027. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then for for the financial software piece, we'll just I don't know have a placeholder in there eventually. We'll need to do something, right? And um I don't know what year that is, you know, it's kind of up in the air. It's probably I mean >> plus. >> Yeah, we're it's probably $150,000 endeavor right now. And as we wait longer, just add 5% each year kind of thing probably. >> But then you just have to update it um sooner anyway. >> Yeah. Is it a security risk though that we could, you know, get ransomed or >> That's a good question. >> So much that I think it would be >> so no one's hacking. >> Nobody knows how to use it when you know how to hack it. >> Be more aesthetically and reporting wise a newer software could do some different things. More than that, I think our our software with Bion, it's functional. It gets done, you know, gets gets people, you know, bills out so people can pay utility bills. It pays payroll. You know, it does gets vendors paid. So it it's not like keeping us from doing or it's not, you know, unsecure or anything. We'd be more just as the city continues to grow, there might be more expectations for the public as far as reports and information financially and >> Okay. Well, that's good. And then back to the ADA stuff, I mean, we host elections here, so that's important, too. You know, we get we get a lot of people >> ADA. Yeah. >> We've managed by opening doors and whatnot. Or, you know, >> I think people can go out. was at the police station where the door was propped open with an electrical um cord and I texted Ally with a picture of it. I'm like, I think we should fix this. >> They literally had an electrical cord like hooked around the door inside and like holding it that way. I was like, "That's that's great. Awesome." >> And it Yeah. For if somebody wants to vote from their car >> in their need that we can do that, too. >> That's interesting. >> Okay. >> Um I just have a question. So for zoning and subdivision fees revenue, you still have that at the 45. That's going to stay the same. >> I guess I don't know what goes into the zoning subdivision fee revenue. >> That'd be like some of your land use. Hopefully that actually Yeah, we hit that or better. That that's um usually like where the um the land use fees for like new subdivisions or different, you know, other um variances and things when they that goes into that account. So hopefully we start kicking out things in 26 or even whether it's a new plat or whatever that we should hopefully hit that or even go go higher. So, I'm hoping that that that should be fine, I think. So, and we've been pretty consistent, I think, in that 4550. >> And then for the police services contract, that's with St. Bonnie, correct? And then are we working on a new contract with St. Bonnie? >> I think you've already >> police. So, um I think I've I think I've told the group this. So, we once the bond is paid off for that facility, that's when we can renegotiate. So they're locked in to the current one until the bond is paid off. So 2030 >> we can't pay that off faster. >> I mean we we'd have to look into that I guess as far as doing a refinance or something or whatever and then redes it and then >> we probably wouldn't be able to defease it. We'd have to re I don't know if refinancing would count. I guess if we'd have to actually pay it off and then >> I don't know money around. >> Yeah. Yeah. basically be a little bit >> well maybe in a future you know kind of update us maybe in a future one um let us know what the balance is and find out on the bond >> few years out maybe we can pay off the last couple or few years maybe in advance >> we're getting there 26 29 it's up in 29 like pretty close to doing it sooner >> it's getting there but it'd be probably hard to pay about five year chunk >> yeah yeah we'd have to pay 26 27 28 29 Yeah we'd have to pay >> either it's that might even through 2030. It's either Okay. >> It would be I think 2031 would be the first year that the new contract could get started because they'll make a payment. They pay a portion of the >> Yeah. >> debt service. So >> small portion but >> um >> that would go 2030 is our last payment for that. So it would be 2031. >> So even if the um contract So the contract can't be changed at all or can it just the debt payment portion of it? Well, in the contract, it indicates that they are they're um locked in until the debt service is paid off. So, >> we could I don't know why they would agree to nullify that contract, you know, they have a pretty good deal going and that was put in there. >> Yeah, that was an interesting contract that we signed. >> Put in there for a reason. >> I think they're paying about eight and a half% right now just based on the way the contract worded. So, >> Okay. All right. How much do we pay on that on the police station? >> It's about um >> is that the public facilities? >> Yeah. Yes, it's free something. >> Yeah. Yeah. Y >> Okay. Other questions? So, I have a question then. Um are we all in agreement? Should um Brian put together a resolution to be added to our agenda to approve a preliminary I see. Yes. Budget. >> Yes. >> The reason I ask is then maybe we would cancel our September 3rd meeting >> since we're only going to be three people and the three people that are going to be here would prefer not to be here. Not going to be here. I got a message from Desperate. Can you be here? >> So, all right. So, if you would like to add that um do a resolution and um hand it to me and then we'll add that to the uh regular meeting agenda. >> And then the debt. So then um and then we'll do the debt levy will be um levied at 100%. >> That's just we can levy up to 105 but we've been able to do 100 less. >> Okay. >> Do you want me to set the meeting for that only meeting in December too for the public? >> You can but I mean >> if I have time or >> if you have time sure otherwise we can do that on the 15th. Yes. >> Okay. All right. Um, so next item we have on the agenda is a water treatment plant funding update. Jasper. >> Yes, madame mayor, members of council. Um, I just wanted to provide a little update about the funding for the water treatment plant. Um, and mostly the non-local funding piece. So, I think everybody's aware we've applied over the last few years to the public facilities authority for funding. Uh it's not really funding, it's just a preferred interest rate to take out debt. Um and there's a couple other perks that are a part of that. Um you one of them just being that you don't pay interest on any money you don't um use right away. So you just you pay interest as you use it as opposed to when you sell a bond. As soon as you take that money um or get that money, then you're paying full interest on it. So, there's some benefits to PFA, but um as you if you read the memo, you can see generally we're kind of anticipating about a 4 and a half% um interest rate for the if we if we issue a bonded debt for the water treatment plant. PFA is around 3.5. >> Six, seven years ago, PFA was at 1%. >> 1%. >> Yep. So, um so it's a lot different than what it is right now. So, there isn't that big of a gap. So, you can kind of see some of the calculations um based on the difference between those interest rates. Um you'd really get about $2.6 million in in savings, but there's a big butt. There's a lot of requirements that our engineers are saying add about 20% to the project. And that's the things like build America by America, BABA, BABA or whatever you want to call it. Um cultural resource studies, environmental review, and other regulatory requirements. So, Mountain's kind of going through this because they accepted the the state um bonding money and they're having to do a cultural resource study. They're having to get the EPA involved with a lot, you know, some of the well sites that they're looking at. So, there's a lot more hoops to jump through, which is why it costs a little bit more. So, right now, the analysis, we're going to still apply for it, but um I don't think we should delay the project anymore to evaluate this potentially next year. But if for whatever reason the project comes in high and we have to, you know, look at it in 2026, it'll still be an option at that time. Um, but right now, like financially, it probably doesn't make sense to do PFA versus traditional. Um, and I wanted to make sure everybody understood that and I didn't want to make that decision unilaterally that we weren't going to, you know, pursue that moving forward. And but that's that's the update. >> A question. >> Yeah. How many times do projects come in high that >> from from the bidding? >> Yeah. Is that like does it always happen or is it rare? >> Um it depends. Um recently it's they they haven't um recently they come in under what the engineers estimate is. Uh and I think that there's a little bit of they're kind of gun engineers are gunshy because co during COVID there was a lot of them that came in over. So right now I would say they're using those numbers to estimate current projects and they're coming in lower. >> We hope we hope. >> And the engineers like to be conservative. In other words, they'd rather say high and have it come in low versus low and then you're like shocked. >> Yeah. It's kind of a budgeting exercise, too. You don't want to >> You don't want to Yeah. So they're they're trying to be realistic, but they also want to make sure that um Yeah. that they don't undercut it so much. So, >> but it varies. There's still projects that come in high. Um the I'll use Northfield's water treatment plant came in 20% high. >> So, but that was a I think that was a product of delayed delay delay due to some of the hoops that they had to jump through for the federal money. So they were 18 months probably delayed something like that. But yeah, they came in 20% over. >> Ben, other question though that I have is when are we going to be talking about water rates and or how we're going to pay for it? >> That'll be likely October. So once generally once we get the prelim levy done, >> okay, >> passed, which apparently we're going to do that tonight. >> Yeah. Um then we'll start talking about enterprise funds and that'll be the big >> big discussion point as far as what we want to do and we we had a touch point earlier this year about different structures that are out there if you want to have a water treat you guys can start thinking about this now because we're getting close but you know the water treatment fee versus the rates or some hybrid of those two things but um we do have to generate a significant more uh significantly more revenue in 2026 if we do con conventional financing. So Brian and I have sat down and kind of did a little worksheet and played with things, but we really just need to get input from city council. >> Um that'll time well with because some bids are being considered October 3rd too also. So the talking rates probably in October time because that'll be a big piece of it. >> And then the 15 million versus 20. >> Yeah. >> Hopefully it's lower. >> But for a just for example, for a $20 million plant, our current revenue is about 1.75 million. We'll have to generate about with including all the other projects that we've done, the um upsizing, the wells, all those things that we're kind of we're going to have to end up paying back. Um we're going to have to generate around four to 4.1 million per year. So, you can kind of do the math. That's more than twice as much. >> Do we have here, excuse me, Madame Mayor, uh in Minista, do we have the opportunity for those on city water to have like two meters? one that meters just the water that gets goes out into the landscaping and gets soaked into the ground. No, just one. >> Just one. >> Just one. >> And it comes Oh, I'm sorry. It comes from the same source. It costs us the same amount to provide that water. >> And the main reason cities have irrigation um is because we just have the flat sewer rate per quarter right now. We don't have a metered >> I see. Thank you. That answers the question. >> Um yeah. And then my question is once we know what the bids are and we kind of know or have some idea, do we want to have it was such a huge success, but do we have want to have another um town hall meeting to let people know what the I don't know. Are we that be a glutton for punishment or >> I don't think anyone's going to come. I I don't think people are going to come. >> Uhuh. They have our number. caught. Don't you think though? I >> Well, our last one we had 11 people show up and >> you know, and everybody was generally supportive and we talked about doubling the rates and we kind of got >> I think we could literally put a b a billboard up that says what it's going to be and once it all hits the same people are going to complain. >> Yeah. >> So, I just asking Yeah. Okay. >> That was nice of you. >> Okay. >> It was >> all right. So, so generally I just want to give you the update that the strategy is to not pursue or delay the project to to get PFA funding potentially next year. >> Not unless the rate substantially falls. >> Yeah. Which I don't they're kind of moving around and PFA they'll set it to something but we don't know exactly but generally it's about right now a point lower than what we can get. >> It's usually about a point sometimes a point and a half but yeah >> and we don't we don't qualify for any additional grants or any additional reductions. um based on demographics, things like that. >> I know that's so disappointing. >> Can we still try again for bonding even if we start the project? >> We can. We will. >> We won't get anything, but keep trying. >> Yeah, I've submitted >> Yeah. No, I mean I think we should. Yeah, >> I've submitted to MMB our project again, so it's in the running. It's in the mix. So, um it'll be considered >> depending on if they have a bonding bill. Correct. Yeah. And >> they said they're going to, but you never know. >> Yeah. Okay. But yeah, we'll keep trying. I think we should. I mean, it's Yeah, we owe it to our residents. So, all right. There's no other questions, then we can um adjourn for 50 minutes, guys. But here's the so I just kind of for the record want everybody to know a lot of times these questions are answered because you guys talked to Jasper before the meeting and and so on. And even even if you ask questions of Jasper beforehand, don't feel like you can't ask them again because it can also help maybe other council members that haven't thought of the question. So don't be hesitant to ask the same question again. Um, but what's also good about asking staff ahead of time is then they can gather the information and have that prepared not just for your answer, but for everybody else's, um, knowledge as well. So, um, we don't play stump the staff. It's a fun game, but you know what? staff is like but no I really appreciate all your questions beforehand and I know you guys do because Jasper I'll call him and he go I'm on the phone with another council member I'll call you later I call him I'm still on the phone with another council member so I know you talk to him a lot and that's great that's just great so all right with that is there a motion to adjourn work session move >> thank you Miss Lacy is there a second >> second thank you misskin all those in favor signify with I >> all those opposed motion passes says 5. So we will come back. >> Yeah. >> And we'll add that to our agenda. >> That works. >> How many people call you on Sunday? >> I I text him once in a while and I usually say, "I'm sorry to bother you when we preface it, but