Um, so I'm going to call the meeting to order. This is the uh Miniaturista work session for June 16th, 2025. Present this evening, we have a couple people that are um participating, staff members participating remotely, and that is Anne Meyerhoff, our city clerk, and David Ael, our community development director. And then here in person, myself, Lisa Whan, the mayor. Council members present are um Kathleen Refkin, Claudia Lacy, and Brian Govern, and then Peter Vicky is absent this evening, and then we have uh Gary Peters, who's our public works director, and then um Ally Palfus, our assistant administrator, Jasper Krugal, our administrator, and Brian Govern, Brian Brian Grim Grim Grim Govern. Hey guys, get different names. Brian Grim is our uh finance director. So with that we have three items um on our work session agenda Gillespie center uh contribution discussion and then the 26 yard waste disposal service and that budget levy consideration. So with that it over to you first. Yeah. Thank you madame mayor uh members of city council. This is something that we've um talked about a few times on and off for the last year or so um regarding the Gillespie Center. A little bit of background history. Uh the city of Minatrista uh had a contribution agreement with the with the Gillespie Center from 2012 until 2021. Um that funding amount was $34,000 a year for those 10 years. So this is this is something that we've done in the past. Um we have representatives from the Gillespie Center along with uh Miss uh Council Member Lacy is our uh liaison to the Gillespie Center currently. And then we have Rhonda Nelson here as well to to answer any questions. I did solicit questions from city council members probably a few months ago, a couple months ago now. Um, and I did share those with um, Miss Nelson, and uh, she provided answers to those that have been attached to this agenda item. So, I think if there's um, and there was a specific ask um, and it's $10,000 per year for 10 years is is kind of the agreement. um some new information that that I received from or information that I received from uh Rhonda about contributions from other communities. Um and she can talk a little bit about that. But city of Orno is contributing $12,000. City of Bound in 2020 uh is $8,000, 6,000 of that being cash, 2,000 of inind services. Uh Spring Park, it's proposed for 12 and St. Bonnie is proposed for 12 as well. So, she maybe get into a little bit more details about if that's 25 or 26 or when when that funding cycle is. Um, but I think the the kind of the way to kind of go about this is um kind of go through the questions. If there's anything specific that you would like clarity on, definitely reach out to or talk to ask the question. Um, and then ultimately what I'm looking for is direction moving forward. If we want to bring forward an agreement, um we'll work through our legal counsel to to bring something forward at a future meeting. And then a key question is, you know, funding cycle, when do we want to do it? If it's something in 2025, we have to have a couple other conversations. If it's in 2026, um then it'd be part of the budget process, which which Brian's going to be presenting on later this work session. Um and then I'm sure there'll be some other questions that come up, too. So, with that, I'll turn it over to to the mayor and and we can go from there. So, maybe I'll um first say um Miss Nelson, would you like to address the council, do a presentation, anything like that, or just address questions? Well, yeah, I'm here again. Just come up here. Okay. Okay. Um just requesting um your support and your funding. You know, Minitrista surrounds Mound and um we are definitely um community agnostic. We invite everyone into the center. We have um people anywhere from even Weisetta, Delano um which have senior centers um Maple Plane, Independence, Watertown, St. Bonnie, all around um enjoying the center. But the reality is it is kind of in the center of Minitrista and we do serve a lot of Minotrista residents and we do have membership but the membership really isn't what you think of as a membership like in a gym um because anyone is welcome into the center um I haven't tracked the the residents um addresses um we do track residents coming in or um and if you would like to I can start tracking that um but I know that a lot of people use the center from Minista um because personally I know them. I am a Ministrista resident and I have several people in my neighborhood who use use the center. Um so we are asking for 10,000. It's less than we've asked for before. Um we are still working. Um we've done a lot of work in the last year and a half since I've joined to kind of get out of the red and become profitable. Um but it takes a village to sustain that. Um and I would love to um get city funding for our programs. Okay. All right. Um, so do we want to go through the questions first? Miss Lacy, do you want to add anything? I would like to just start firing away at these questions. Um, okay. Um, you know, when I was asked to be the liaison at the Gillespie Center, I thought, you know, I wonder if this is a big train wreck and it's if it's feasible to keep this going. and I really didn't know that much about it even though I've lived out here for 60 years. Um I very very quickly um saw where there were things that I thought maybe should be changed. Um which is hard to do in an organization that's you know primarily the help is is volunteer and they're seniors. So you don't want to go you don't know what you're doing you know we don't think you're doing this the right way because some of these people have been volunteering there for 10 15 20 years. Um but what we did know is it really needed a new director with a new vision and a new set of skills and um the board needed to be more effective um in in creating change. And so all of these things have happened this year. Um, the Gillespie I thought I was actually very surprised when I saw the Gillespie had, you know, $4.7 million in endowments and in investments. Um, and I also was also I was very surprised to learn that most cities actually fully fund their senior centers. So when she's asking for this tiny little amount from a city that surrounds Mound, um all these other cities have already stepped forward. Um some giving a little bit more than we've been asked, some giving a little bit less. Um but there was no list of adnauseium of questions over and over the same how are you going to do this? How many members do you have? The membership means nothing. the I mean these are seniors most of them on some kind of aid that are just showing you know I care about this place I'm going to give you my $40 it's not going to sustain the Gillespie center um the money we're asking for and this is I felt very comfortable with this because I thought it's about a dollar per resident and this is a place that's open seven days a week there's probably a hundred people that go in and out of that place every single day uh some are very young some come in for the bakery um some come in just to play cards or have a cup of coffee. Um, even the seniors that live at uh, Presbyterian Homes, which is a marvelously beautiful place right down the road, come to the Gillespie Center to hang out. Um, it it gets them out of the house. It gives them a place to go. And, um, I've really become so impressed with what they do there. And they've updated the look of the building, not just the outside, but the inside is very kind of uh, pottery varnish. the outside is um more micotta and less Elks Lodge nursing home. So, I'm very proud of the the changes that have been made. Rhonda is there constantly. You know, we have this United Healthcare executive with a tremendous amount of experience that is bringing that into our little town, which I think we should be very grateful for. Um she's extremely dedicated to it. She's got the personality that fits marvelously with it. the whole um uh the the booking of the facility has really taken off. We have a one renter that's spending somewhere around $80,000 a year um to come in on Sundays which is absolutely magnificent. Um we really see a lot of positive things happening. you know, for the dollar a year per Minatristan, it's a marvelous, marvelous um facility and we don't have to replicate it here in Minatrista. That would be a tremendous um duplication of of services. And so I am very passionate about it. Um as far as the what's the 10,000 going to be used for? It's not going to be used to go into a kitty for future renovations or pay salaries. It's going to be used for programs. So, I don't care about um you know, how much do you have for building maintenance? This is for programs. So, I've said this multiple times. If the building got picked up and taken to Oz in a tornado, we could still use that $10,000, not tonight. Could still use that $10,000 for programs for for our seniors. So, I don't know if I've touched on everything, but I think it's in a very good position to um serve our our community and the surrounding communities. We're asking for very, very little. We Gary, we probably spent more than that on trees last year. I think our seniors are more important than trees. And you know, I'm I'm kidding. Everyone that knows me knows I'm a huge supporter of our um servicemen and women and I would do anything for our police department, but we we just spent I I granted it's not the same bucket of money, but you know, we're spending uh $200,000 on a high-tech video game that makes our police Yeah, it's that's what I'm calling it. I know that's not what it is, but this is a ton of money affecting a few uh you know, it's our police department, but this is a very small amount of people and we're spending a gigantic amount of money on something. Yes, that's important. I think this is equally as important. I think it's for the health, well-being, uh and all good things for our seniors. And not just seniors. There's young people in there taking taekwond do coming in getting tax information, you know, getting um pedicures, medical grade pedicures, helping with their eyeglasses. And there's just so many services that Rhonda hasn't even listed here. They're just too much to list. So, there's a cute little library that's always open. It's very easy for them to park, run in, grab a little book, not worry about fees and fines and really checking in, you know, just a wonderful place. So, um clearly you can tell I'm passionate about it. I think um all the other cities uh I think our city's run brilliantly. We we've got a amazing staff, a great city council in my opinion. Um but the other cities didn't even ask these questions. They were like, "Sure, how can we help?" And so I really think we're the we're the outlier waiting and I'd really like us to step up just like all the other cities did for 2025. Give them $10,000. They're as important if not more than trees. Um anyway, that's where I rest my case. So, just for clarification, I think um um I understand that St. Bonnie and Spring Park, the the 12,000 is proposed. They haven't committed to that at this point to that. Um so, I start when I did the road show, I started with Mound first and then I went to Minotrista. So, you know, it took some time to go through and by the time I got to their city council meetings, they had already locked in their budget, right? Yes. And they said, "Yes, we will support you next year. Please come back." Okay. Um and same with Spring Park then. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Um I just wanted to clarify that. Um so I asked a lot of questions and one of the one of the things that um I I don't disagree with um with you, Claudia. I think that it's a fabulous um entity, a fabulous organization. Um but the one of the reasons I asked a lot of questions is because um back in many years ago before you were here uh there was uh some there was an ask by the Gillespie Center that we contribute and enter into a contract for 10 years etc. And at that time um the community was really kind of if you will split. Some people thought no that's not right. we shouldn't be contributing to a nonprofit. Um, if I want to contribute, then that should be my my decision, not not your decision. And you shouldn't be using my tax dollars to contribute to an organization that I may not want to contribute to for whatever reason. Or if I want to, then I can do that on my own. And so there was a lot of um kind of like I said, some residents wanted it, some residents didn't want the city to contribute. and um ultimately um a city council that I wasn't a part of at the time decided to make that contribution. But with that contract um the contract and the um board and the um administrator at the time made it extremely clear that this was a one-time ask and it would only be for 10 years. And once they and then the other communities such as Spring Park and and Mound and Minatrista and St. Bonnie um when when they were all together, they would contribute $ 110,000 a year and after that then and they would put that 110 into um an endowment fund and that would uh balloon up to $3 million within the next within those 10 year within that 10-year period. In the same time, the Gillespie Center was supposed to be raising 110,000 a year in order to sustain the current operations. So, um, so that's why I think I'm very surprised that now we're back in the same situation where there's another ask. Um, and yet, um, Claudia, you just said, uh, there's $4.7 million in endowments and investments. And when I do the math, I think one of my questions was, what are you getting in in return for your investments? And you said around 7%. That equates to over 300,000 a year. So, so I want to correct that. Yeah, that is the land value, correct? Oh, yeah. I mean, the endowment itself is just under three million. Okay, that is correct. Yeah. So, that would still generate a significant amount at 7%. So, um but so, um it's really hard because we have other organizations in our community that are also extremely very good organizations such as the West Honka Recreation Association. They provide recreation for for individuals of all all ages. Uh we also have um other organizations that are nonprofits such as we have that provide a a a you know a program for seniors. Um and you know we don't if if we were to contribute to every one of these organizations it would add significantly to our to our levy that we would have to levy. So the question I would have to the council is um do we have a policy on who and when we contribute to nonprofits? That would be one question. And the other question is um just legally um when you say programs I didn't see where there was a specific program or programs that are specifically for seniors because I think by state statute we can contribute to senior programs but we would have to know what those programs are and then how much they cost. what is the cost of those programs if the um if indeed the um council is interested in participating but then I'm also surprised because to me when I look at you know I look at things is there a need is there a need for this for this funding and from your um balance sheets and your statements I don't see that so um maybe you can talk a little bit about that um so I can just tell you as the director what I face every day. So we have um from the balance sheets and the um current budget we have to spend a lot on maintenance at this point. Our building is 25 years old and our maintenance they they took a policy the previous board and the previous leadership took a policy of not doing preventative maintenance. We have now changed that strategy and we are doing preventative maintenance to try to continue to decrease costs going forward. But the reality is a big percentage of that has to be spent on building things. So that leaves me very little money for programming. Um I programming for seniors can range from the foot care that Claudia talked about to um bringing in um social programs um speakers and authors and things like that for for um social programming I guess I'd call it. Um so we our finance people took a took a um a strategy that they don't have a separate building fun building maintenance fund that so because they used to have um a $500,000 endowment fund for for CIP. So that's gone away now. That's completely gone. Well, they don't design they don't designate funds per se. Okay. Okay. So, we have to dip into the endowment when we have those large bills um like we have had for the HVAC system, for example. Well, the building hadn't been painted for 25 years. We just repainted the building. No, I I I know it's lovely. I'm not seeing Yeah, I just met with the contractor today because we have to replace all the boards on our portica because they're all rotten and weathered. Um so yeah, things like that come up almost weekly, sometimes daily that um we have maintenance type issues and and we can't fund those type of just so you're aware of that. Senior programming. Yep. Yeah. But there is a lot of need for senior programming. Um I had a guy come in off the street and said, "I really want you to host a monthly band here." I'm like, "Great. Well, I don't have the funds to do that. I would love to do that. He's like, I need a place. We should all have a place to go and um listen to music and dance. Like, sounds wonderful, right? But bands are expensive. Um I talked to him for like an hour. I've talked to him about four times since then. He is now personally giving me money for the band. He is paying for the band outright. um we'll still have to provide um we'll still have to pay for things like um a liquor license and food and things like that and to make make it a venue but it probably won't be a fundraiser if you will because if I had to make a fundraiser it would the ticket cost would be exorbitant right so um just entertainment we often music seems to bring people into the center so we have we provide Wednesday lunches also a program for seniors and Thursday breakfast um another opportunity for funding um there and um but when I pair it with music and I try to find like sometimes there's a single guy in a band like single guy band you know his own guitar he'll charge me 50 bucks for the for coming in but I see my lunch increase from 10 people or 12 people to 50 60 people right so um and then they enjoy it and they have fun and sometimes Presbyterian Homes brings over a bus right and those kind of things um we've had a relationship with Scotty be um local restaurant person and he has volunteered his time to come cook once a quarter. Again, that brings in the people, but we charge $10 because we want the people to come in. If we charge much more, they won't. And now he's, you know, his name is on it, so he wants to buy the ingredients. And now his ingredients are overcosting the cost that I'm charging. So things like that, um, is an opportunity. And if I raise the prices, our, as Claudia said, most of our people that come in to use the center, most of them are on some type of aid. Like they can't afford to spend 30 bucks to come in for a lunch. And you know, I know we've gone back and forth on this, but I I don't think we or we can or you know, any of the local charities around the community are in the same bucket as our senior center. Um, it is also community center, but it's really known as a senior center. I was there a few nights ago. Um, I think there were 40 people there square dancing. They were all senior citizens. Um and what it was a wonderful thing to see that. So um I don't think it's I don't when you know the majority of cities are funded by uh senior centers are funded by their cities. I think that eliminates that question. Why should we pick the Gillesby Center and not all these other I don't think it's because otherwise I'd ask you for some money for my charity. council. Other questions, comments? Um, I'm not against funding per se, but that the 10-year commitment is a little concerning to me. Um, just on kind of both ends is that and and honestly, if I was in your shoes, I'd probably be asking for a 10-year commitment. I I understand why you do, but I think from two points. One, it kind of encumbers future councils and the will of potential future voters. And then two, maybe $10,000 isn't the right um funding level five, eight years from now. Um, so I haven't quite made up my mind yet on like what the, you know, the answer for funding is, but I am a little concerned about a long-term agreement to it. I mean, I think so. Here's here's where I'm having a really big struggle. $10,000 because it's about $1 per person. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I am so sorry, but it has nothing to do I mean if we're funding a senior program, it has nothing to do with how many kids we have in our community or how many 42 year olds or 50 year olds we have in our community. If we're funding a senior program, we need to know then how much is that going to cost us because it's it has nothing to do with how many how many people we have in our community. We have according to um the census we have 90 about about 9200 9,300 people in our community. First of all, not 10,000. Second of all, only 14% of those are senior citizens. And then, so when you do the math, you know, I'm I'm just I I'm confused because if we funded a dollar per person or a dollar per senior in our community, it'd be more like $1,200. And if we fund a program, I need to know what that program is costing. So, I mean, it doesn't make sense to me to just say, "Oh, give us $10,000 because you have 10 10,000 approximately 10,000 people in your community." It there's no a correlation in my opinion. I mean, well, there is in mine. I think that and we're very close to 10,000 people. So, yes, I round it up. However, the service that that provides when we spend that kind of we have to know the program. Okay, I'll say skip trees for 10,000 and let's give it to our seniors. I just I can't believe that we are nickel and dimming such an important organization right down the road that is open seven days a week for anybody that needs it, you know. And what's most important is that the elderly have somewhere to go and something to do and somewhere to eat and somewhere to get the help they need and someone to talk to to get the services they need. I think it is an incredibly good deal and that we would I I would have asked for 50,000. I would have asked for much I would have gone back to the 34,000 a year. I think I'm sorry that the last person said this is a onetime ask. I probably would have said that too. Would have made it made it easier to to get a city to give the money. But I think we should fund it forever. I think it's that important to our community and it's a very small amount of money. So, when I originally came, just um to as a reminder, I did ask for 12,000 at the original ask and I asked Mound for $75,000. Mound is in a completely different situation financially than you guys. I'm sure you're aware. So, that's why they ended up not granting that. Um, but I did ask for a lot more from Mount But they care for the facility as well. And they do. Yes, they they do a lot of inkind services for us. We don't want to get to meet City of Mound's financial situation. Yeah, we we don't want to be in City of Mound's financial situation. So, um decisions. Yeah. I mean, Lisa, um I don't see a question specifically on this about what programs, but I could certainly provide the list of all the programs that are targeted towards seniors. Again, they're not limited to seniors because we were open to anybody, but they're mostly seniors. um all of our exercise programs, our educational programs, I do seminars, I do excursions, um the foot care services, the tax services and all that stuff. I can certainly provide that with costs associated with if that would help. Is Sarah here? Sarah's not. But do you have a question about the state statute? The state statute. I thought we could only contribute if um if it's for a specific um senior program. It it doesn't say program. It's just for senior activities or senior services is what it actually services. Yeah. So what that means and and so what that means is it could be like a program. It could be the build, you know, the building space itself. If there's a area where the seniors can sit, you know, it's it's the building. You technically could be the building if there's senior services in the building, too. So there's it's it's broad. It's interpretable. Um but it says senior services. Okay. All right. All right. So, um, my issue is we've already given the GIP GIP I can't talk center thou h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h hundreds of thousands of dollars and it's a charitable foundation. It's a great resource. I've never been in there. I probably won't go in there. The issue I have is we already gave you money and now you want more. Why why should we choose you over any of the other charities in the area? as Lisa pointed out like the West Tucker but okay it's great but I've never been there so if I want if I want the city to give $10,000 or something I'd rather give it to I'm at that facility so as a res how much should we spend on parks that's not our park it's not our park okay I'm just saying parks in general but the issue that I have is that we've already given you money and I don't see a financial need based on the endowment you you can there's other ways of fundraising besides coming to the city and asking for money other charities in the area do that. And I don't I don't think it's a good precedent to just give more money because you're asking when then any other charity can come and go, well, you gave them $10,000 for the next 10 years. Why aren't we getting it, too? We have x amount of residents who use it and these are the services we provide them. I I don't I'm a No. So the statute means that doesn't show you that the state believes there's a need to help fund you know then but we are helping fund and if you take we did help fund if you um I think this should go on forever in perpetuity. It is it is actually when you think about $340,000 that we have given to the Gillespie Center that generates nearly $24,000 a year. So, we have in perpetuity um and we continue to give because we gave the $340,000 for 10 years and at 7% that's $23,800 a year that it's generating for for the Gillespie Center. So, what what is your answer to the cities that fully fund their senior centers? That's their decision and that's their policy and I think that should be our policy. So, I mean, okay, but but I mean, we're asking for so little and then let me ask you this. You said that you you're now generating an additional $80,000 a year from rental to a church and um if I'm doing the math correct, you're generating somewhere over $200,000 from your endowment fund. So, show me where the need is. Show me where your financial need, but it's not reflected in here. We would like to build up an endowment to a level where we don't have to worry if the boiler goes out or the roof needs replacing. We don't have a buffer. What is What amount then do you need want for the endowment? What's the magic number? I think we looked at, you know, maybe saying about $4 million. Yeah. I mean, in the past it was three million, but that was 15 years ago. So 3 million 15 years ago than it is today. But I just I have a hard time understanding why the council can't see why other cities think their senior centers are a valuable thing and they should fund them to an enormous degree and we're asking for a pittance to keep going. So we have this wonderful asset right down the road. Okay. If if I may, I just want to make a clarifying. I pulled the statute up. I can read it directly so you guys can understand it. So in Minnesota, a city can appropriate money to support the facilities, programs, and services of a public or private not for profit profit senior center or youth center. So that's the statute just so it's clear. Um and I know you mentioned something about a policy. That's kind of the policy that we would have. It'd have to be a senior or a youth center. Um right. And then it'd be up to the city council if they would like to fund it or not. So, services, programs, facilities, as long as they're affiliated with with Senior Senior Citizen Center. I guess the the only other thing I would say is um again, I'm not saying that it's not a great organization or it's not a great um facility. But I would also say we have to look at how many residents are serviced in Minatrista. And if you just look at the the um 34 members that are Minotarista residents, I know you say you service more, but we don't have those numbers. Then I would say $10,000. That's like almost $300 per person. And in Mound, you have 210 Mound residents that are members and they're contributing $6 or $8,000. It equates to like $48 a member. I mean, it's it's significantly less. So, I think looking at everything, um, if there was a a specific program that you or a specific item that you don't have the money for that you would need help completing, like if you had to replace your HVAC system and it's it's $50,000 and you only have 20,000, I could see the city saying, "Okay, we can we can help out." Or if you say, "We we want to implement this program. This is a vital program and it's going to cost $8,000 a year to do this program. Are you interested in supporting this program?" But this is kind of a general thing. You're just coming saying, "Well, we just want $10,000 based on 10,000 residents." it to me it doesn't make sense that I I need I in order to support this I would have to say give me a program that costs and what the costs are and why you need our help that that's where I'm coming from. So I'm not saying we wouldn't support it but I'm saying that that's what I would need. I would just refer back to the state statute saying what they allow we can that we can support it but again it's and they wrote it in those words because they think these kind of services are important and I think we're getting all these services wrapped up in a lovely building for practically nothing. I I I think a $10,000 ask annually for the city to have that kind of benefit and the there is no way that it's 34 people from Minotrista. I've I I'm across the street from that building. There's hundreds of people from Minotarista going in that building and they just don't I'm And again, I'm not questioning that, but we don't have those numbers. There could be 2,000 people from Ministry of Walk. I don't think so. Not when we only have about 1,200 residents that are seniors. Can I um I I can get you that information, Lisa. I can give you a list of programs and their estimated costs and we'll get that to you. I just want to add because you brought it up when I came to you guys last time. I believe I was still a contractor. I um was a healthcare executive. Um I worked for the CIO who worked for Brian Thompson, the one that was murdered. So I had a very high job and I took a year off to care for my parents. And then somebody contacted me because I was doing some volunteer work at Pres Homes and we have a Pres Homes person that works there on the board and she said they need a director. They they're in dire straits. They you know the the in the black or they're in the red and um so I said I don't know if that's for me but I will listen. And so I listened and I pitched him a 3 to fourmonth contract and I said, "I can help you turn this around and I can create a vision, a mission, a values. I can create our programming and our marketing plans around that to be successful." So I did that and then I said I could hire you a a full-time director and train her and make sure she's successful. Unfortunately, they didn't um include me in the hiring process and we they did hire a director um and that person didn't work out. So saddened me. So said yes, I can continue to stay until you find a new one. And somewhere in there in the middle, I have a passion. I fell in love with the place. It it has real value, right? Like I don't need to work there. I don't do it for the money, but I certainly didn't think I had the skills for it, but I do because I have all these I wear many hats. I'm really the only full-time employee there. We have a halftime person that does the rentals and then everybody else is volunteers, right? Um contract cleaner. But um and Rhonda, don't get don't misunderstand me. First of all, you're doing a phenomenal job. Yes, you are. Um I recognize that. And second of all, we're not saying it's not it doesn't have value. But as an elected official overseeing our tax dollars, I need to be sure that one that it's being done appropriately and two that also that um when people ask me how come you're contributing, I can say well we're contributing to this program because they don't have enough money and this is the program that we feel is very important for our community. Um so it's it's it's all of that. It's nuts. Yeah, I can certainly provide I I understand that 100%. And the other thing that we have to look at too is if we do this, I agree with Brian one, we're not going to do this forever and we're not going to sign any kind of contract and we're not going to do it for 10 years or whatever. But um the other thing is um it can't be this year otherwise we have to cut something very important out of our budget and I'm not prepared to do that and even when we're looking ahead uh then we have to make a lot of financial decisions as well because every penny every dollar that we take in tax dollars counts and we have to be able to justify that to our residents. So, and as a minister resident, I appreciate that, right? Like I I I very much appreciate the financial um governance that you guys have. I again, you're doing a phenomenal job, much better than um and uh and it's it's a great facility. So, um what I would say is um it's not going to my opinion, it can't happen this year for sure because we we didn't budget for it. Um, and I'm pretty sure that some of the other communities are going to say the same. And then what I would say is if you want us to fund a specific item or project or program, please let us know that and let us know those numbers. Sure. And it has to be is that I think that's a compelling argument. Yeah. If you can give us a program that otherwise wouldn't happen but for the funding you're requesting from the city, I think that's an easier poll to swallow, then just nice to have. Should I work with Jasper to get that information back? Yeah, sure. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? No discussion. Thank you, Rhonda. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you for coming. All right. So, next, let's see. Got to get back to my agenda. Uh I think we have a discussion on the waste yard waste disposal service. Yes. Uh madame mayor, members of city council, uh this idea kind of reared its head at the 2025 uh state of the city event. I don't know if this has been talked about in the past. I think it has. Talking to Gary, I think it has. Um I think we've determined internally that we just can't do any compost site on any of our property. it just it's it's cost prohibitive at this point. So, one thing that we that we're aware of and we did a little research into is the city of Mound has a a partnership with the Mound or sorry, with the Mulch store um located off of Trunk Highway 7. I think everybody's familiar with the location to allow their residents to bring yard waste there during their regular business hours. So, we did a little digging into that contract. Um that contract with Mound is about $13,000 annually. Um, in the in the discussion here tonight, uh, what we're looking for, and it's tied to Brian's future item, is uh, is this something that we want to consider doing for the 2026 budget. Um, the funding sources would likely be the storm water fund and the environmental fund. So, it wouldn't have a levy impact, but it would use uh, resources out of those two funds, however directed. So, uh, with that, I'm here to entertain any questions. Gary's also a local expert on composting. So, uh, he can kind of talk if you really want to get into it, why it doesn't why it won't work on any of our sites and, you know, it's staffing, it's security, it's all that stuff. It it's it far exceeds this amount. So, if it's something that you want to do um, and provide as a service to the residents, I think this is probably the best solution. If if this is something that you're looking for or residents are bringing it up to you, um, this would be a solution for yard waste. Can't our residents already contact their garbage vendors if they want to set this up on their own? So, no. Yeah, they can get their own. Yeah. So, I'm a No. And this would be curbside, right? Not just getting rid of the $2 fee mulch. No, the mulch. You have to go You have to take your stuff there. Okay. So, it's still So, it's basically just getting rid of the fee if you're saying you're correct. Yep. So, if you're a miniaturist resident, they would check your ID the way I understand it. And then um if you have an administr address, they would then let you um get rid of your yard waste for no cost other than what's the cost? It's coming from the city. Yeah. Other than the It's still costing me a residence for it. But I would suggest not have taking it out of the um environmental fund versus then it's really not because that's development fees. That's comes from developers. If if if the council would like to do this, then that's the fund I would take it out of. And if not, then we talked about it and if you have residents that have talked to you, he said just you have the option to do it. It cost I don't even know if it's $2. Is that what Last time I did it was $2. That's it. Yeah. Well, it's $2 a bag. It depends. Oh, a bag. Okay. A bag. Yeah. Depends on how much you have. You know, if you're taking that big tree down or something like that, you're probably going to be more than 10 bucks. But the city's paying for it. The city would pay for the 13,000 per year. Would that be flat fee or? No. Well, we'd have to So, that's it's nuanced a little bit. We'd have to to get an agreement with Waste Management. Um, I was telling Brian, I said, "Well, if we we just negotiated that recycling contract a little bit, but um we didn't talk about this at that time, but we could maybe leverage their current partnership with them." I don't know what it would would be exactly. They haven't given me a number. I wouldn't want to go that route. Yeah. Because that Well, I'm just saying that we have a existing relationship. Not that we would, you know, use it because that I mean I can't imagine. Yeah. I I'm just thinking of our yard waste. There's, you know, to put it in a little bag. It's like no way. Oh, no. That's not That's not what I'm saying. Like not not not curbside or anything like that. Just because we have a existing contract and relationship with waste management, we we would have that ability to talk about it. Because if it wasn't flat fee, I'd be concerned about it being abused. Like I run a I run a yard company and so now I'm running all my customers waste through the Minatrista. Oh yeah, they they would catch on to that real quick. Um if you're a contractor that's bringing that in. Um we in both Northfield and Lassour we had compost sites and you would get that a lot. A lot of large trees that would get just dropped off. um especially if it's not secured. So that's a big problem with city compost sites is you get a lot of things that one are too big or contractor grade size things and you also get a lot of garbage like sofas and well the but you're talking about if you took it to the mulch store. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you were a contractor and you brought it to the mulch store repetit they'd catch on to that real quick. Yeah. Okay. Right. I don't think it's become I mean seasonally we'll have a few people ask but I don't think it's become a a big deal where there's a clamoring for you know dozens of people you know saying I'm I'm mad that the city's not providing this service I think usually this I think just tells them go to the mulch store go to the mulch store um I think um once the emerald ashbor continues to do its damages there might be more interest in it but um if you're not interested then okay I don't see it as No compelling need. Nope. All right. I certainly don't. Okay. All right. That was quick. Next one. Next one. Budget levy considerations. Um, yes, madame mayor and council. So, this is at the uh and when I saw the packet put together, the uh yeah, the first 100 pages was a bunch of the 990s and stuff which are whatever. So, um, actually, I'm sorry before you jump in, um, since it's kind of foundational question, do you have an I has there been any communication from the county as to what their levy is? I know that in the media they've said it's going to be considerable to historic this year, just because I think that'll color this conversation, at least in my head. Uh, I can I can speak to that a little bit. Yeah, I have. Yeah, go ahead. I'll I'll chime in if I need to. Go ahead. So that you know, Commissioner Anderson was here and gave a little spiel about how the Medicaid and Medicare costs were shifting from the state to the county. I I believe that that got dampened a little bit in the in the legislative session when they pass passed the omnibus bill. I don't know the official impacts, but prior to that passage, it was they were like in in double digits, 12 to 15%. um which they generally are like five to seven% you know five something like that single digits low single digits we'll say low to mid single digits so almost doubling what this typical is uh so after the omnibus bill I haven't heard yet but probably more than five% but less than 12 so in that range so pretty significant comparatively to what they have done in historically in the past now I had heard that on an average household again we're probably not average households out here because it's more um was like $70 a year um to $100 a year. But keep in mind it depends on the value of your property, you know. And then the other thing too I think I heard is that um the the costs are going to continue to go up. Um so this would just be like the first year and then years after this. But the other thing I would caution on is um I understand we want to be careful. Totally get that. But we need to focus on what our city needs and and we need to try and be as frugal as possible. I I get that. But we can't really base our levy on um fears of what the county might do. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And my thought is just um you as we go into this conversation I mean you know even though the city is only a relatively small part of the the tax bill that doesn't really matter to people in Minatrista who when they get their tax bill. Yeah. Right. So I'm just inclined to look at things maybe through a little stingier lens if uh we know that the overall tax bill burden is going to be significantly higher. But no I agree though we our responsibility is to the city first. So we need to Right. Yeah. And it's it's going to be a tough one. I mean, this year is going to be a tough one. Yeah. The county already is probably close to 40% of uh city of Minatrista's residents bill of the total tax bill. It's like the county is about 40, the school on average is probably 30-ish, and then we're like 20 23% or something, less than a quarter bill, the city. So yeah, we've had this discussion with the council as a group before too as far as you know well what can we do to maybe help mitigate the overall but it's like well we we still need like the mayor was saying we still need to do what we need to do to fund our city services whether it's operations or capital or roads and stuff and I think we've done a pretty good job of that and I know I even threw the one slide in there and I know people can say well you know there's these are so many neighbors and you can find a neighbor who's paying less per person for taxes but I think you know when you compare us to you know oro and madine and mound, you know, we're paying less than city taxes as Minotarista residents. So, not to say that there's room to grow, but there's obviously room to for things we need to do. So, there is it's not like we're already a a mid to high tax city in the area. I would say we're a low to mid tax city in the area as far as I think everyone would hopefully agree with that or for what we're doing for the city. So, um yeah, I don't know. Should I just jump into the sure memo or or if anyone's got specific questions. So um obviously yeah so on page 109 of the pack you know the biggest um driver usually of of the levy is um the obviously the people you know that's you know we need police and and public works and and admin staff to to provide services the city. So you know the biggest impact there is probably the compensation for the pay plan and the union um contracts and the union contracts the increase. Oh okay they're already set for for next year. It's next year. Yeah. Okay. 27 will be un unknown right now, but the 26 is is good. So, um so that along with um I know the the fire contract, fire service seems to be where we going with that. And obviously, that 2% might be a little light. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's already, you know, so when you look at those first two items, you're probably looking at, you know, you know, 6% right there. It might even be light like you said 6 7% and then you got a couple of the other you know just in you know regular operations cost of doing business and and the uh insurance and things like that. I mean yeah you're probably looking at for you know more your general fund of activities about you know seven seven and a half eight% potentially depending on where we land on some of those items. Um item two there at least we've gotten our fund balance you sort of our spending down a fund balance down to like only 40,000 now. So, we're really not too much to to address there. So, that shouldn't be um you know, too big an issue. So, um probably overall, you know, we're looking at, you know, that if in the general fund, you know, 500,000 or so, um 7 8%, you know, increase there. Just, you know, quick rough estimate. Obviously, we'll bring back the the details once the you know, the budget committee continues. I think we have we have a meeting again tomorrow at staff level. um our budget department managers, you know, so working group and um you know, we'll bring the all the the detailed information to the council at the August work sessions for the tax levy stuff. And then the uh the third item there um is usually you know what then what to do with you know roads and the equipment you know so do we try to increase our roads levy again do we keep it where it is um you know same with equipment there'll be some obviously equipment uh you know needs for you know police and technology and public works and and there so um yeah when you look at the total potential impacts from just a real high level you could be looking at 7 7800 750 850 which is 10 12% when you compare a levy right now is at you know 7 million roughly. So, so you know, we've done this the last several years, at least came to council, you know, and had the at least uh council, I guess, you know, where you at, you know, if it's around 10%, is that going to be acceptable? Is there, you know, eight or nine or 12 or I mean, what's sort of I guess it's, you know, it's hard for everyone to sort of wrap their, you know, what get to a right balance of providing service and making sure we're staying on top of things. You know, we just had a discussion on there's a lot of needs in the community and where to what to fund and what has priorities and maybe turn it over to council, I guess, if there did have a question about it. What's the advantage of doing capital through a levy versus the equipment certificates? I mean, years ago, it was not we had our cash levy up to right now it's at, you know, 200,000. We had it at like 300,000 several years back. 350. Yeah, I think it was even. Yeah, 350. and then some of the the needs for the roads and then there was some other even it was a place I guess to sort of pick away and decrease and then when we we'd have some es and flow so some years we'd go real light on equipment but then we'd come with an equipment certificate the next year and I mean obviously if you can have us pay as you go that's you know you avoid some interest and stuff on equipment certificates but um you know in order to keep that cash levy you know lower we've been able we've supplemented through the equipment certificates and you So if you all of a sudden need 600,000 in equipment or 800,000, if you spread that over five years, you're paying, you know, back, you know, 150 200,000 versus trying to fund 6800,000 all at once. So okay, I think we'd prefer to use cash if we can. Um, it saves us a little bit on interest, but I think just practicality practicality right now there's a lot of capital equipment that is is planned. Not that I pointed at Gary. Gary didn't notice that I pointed at him, but we need it. Uh we need to do something. Um and I think the equipment certificate is probably the best mechanism as opposed to, you know, having a 10% levy increase associated with equipment like in one year. You know, maybe but maybe what we need to look at is rather than doing an equipment certificate every single year, maybe we don't do an equipment certificate every year and we just have to kind of tighten our belt for a few years and then maybe start doing an equipment certificate every other year and and then using some of our um cash for smaller purchases or something like that. Um I I think you know we we can't have everything. So something has to give. And maybe maybe we we don't levy 150,000 additional for roads. Maybe we levy a 100,000 for roads. Maybe this year we don't levy an additional 50 for capital equipment plans until we can get some of the other I mean I'm talk I'm thinking about um the um salaries and stuff. you know, it's 4% 4% 4%. Eventually, that's going to levy out. I mean, level out. I'm I'm hoping maybe more to the two and 3% that used to be more more um what do you say? Yeah. Common. And so maybe when that happens, then we can increase the road and the capital equipment plan a little more. That's just a thought. Sort of like a balloon a little bit. we've had some more pressures on the operations and we probably were a little low on the general fund levy because we were focusing on roads and we had some of the expenditures in the general fund obviously compensation right compensation was a big one and I'll add the one benefit to doing equipment certificates is when they fall off then you have that you know gap to you know potentially re-roll that into some additional so we're not really hitting that fully yet but you know next year are there any equipment certificates that fall There might be the 20 one or whatever. There might be one. Yeah, there might be one. Is it like 80,000? Yeah, 80 or 100 or something like that. So, yeah. Which would be good because then if we don't issue one in 26, there's 100,000 if you will. Either you roll that into capital equipment plan or you roll split it and put it in roads or capital equipment or somehow you you can maybe maneuver that. I don't know. and some we'll have a little better uh feel as far as like where the uh 2025 road projects end up because that's coming out of the road maintenance fund. You know, we didn't bond for those this year. So if we have some, you know, savings there or something and we do have some special assessment revenue coming into that road maintenance fund where, you know, now that we've been doing, you know, some assessments in those for that fund for, um, several years, um, you know, there might be some where we can, you know, dip into the road maintenance fund fund balance that's not tax levy dollars a little bit to help, you know, we still have money there and we're still doing things, but we maybe don't have to increase the the levy as much, you know, every year or whatever, right? because I know um in 26 we're planning on doing another bond or road B you know 4.9 or 3.9% u million. So I I really think we need to be very careful and this if I can add um this is one item that's going to be considered tonight for approval is the water treatment plant and just our bonded dent in general. Brian and I were chatting last week and I mean we're looking at potentially, you know, 25 depending on when you know at least $25 million in bonded debt next year that will likely issue in January I think is what we were kind of saying or early early 26. So it's a significant amount. Not all that's levy. Um but a lot of it's water but it's you know it's it's probably the most I don't know the biggest bond that we're going to sell as a community ever. So, um there's a lot of financial pressures right now about things things that we're trying to do and get done and you know staying the course with the street projects is is important. I think that um just in my short time here, the feedback has been really good from residents as far as but we might have to not put a pause on it, but maybe just ratchet it back a little bit because if we do the the 26 projects and we bond, which we're going to have to bond for it, then I think we're going to have to pause um several years before we do another big bond because it's just adding up too quickly. Maybe we wait until um one bond falls off or something like that. So, but it's not to say we're not going to do anything. Um we're going to continue doing some projects, but maybe just cash for for a while. But um so I kind of I understand what Brian is saying and I think it's a um we need to keep that in mind as well because as he said people look at their their tax statement and it's like hm so but I think start out at maybe the 10% kind of and see what we can do. Um like you said maybe we'll know a little more later on in the year. Even if even if we had to do a 10 or 11% right now and then work on it throughout the fall and then bring it down hopefully let's say like we did last year like 9% or something like that if we could done that the last couple years like the one year it was like 15 down to 12 and it was 12 down to nine and a half or 11 or whatever. I mean yeah it seems like we've done that. So yeah, because you always got to remember I mean everyone knows here that it's the uh it's a ceiling you're setting in September and then those preliminary notices go out in November. So uh you you always want to give yourself you know you start at 10 10 point whatever and you can always come down to 8 n or you know eight and a half nine or something. So you know I was pretty excited last year when I saw the preliminary and then saw the actual came in. Yeah little% little less. I know I know it's always loves us. Okay. 15%. And they come back come back with well. Yeah. And we don't want to we don't want to back ourselves in a corner and and do it solo and then we realize, oh, there's this expense or that expense or whatever. So, um yeah, see what you can do and some make some recommendations. I mean, I I think roads are still going to be high priority if I I think um but um maybe we just don't ratchet it up quite as much. But we can start out at 150, but we'll have to see. Yeah. Okay. Um, I think that's just Yeah. some general like a starting point. Not that the Yeah. We say 10 and the council says six or or you or 14 even. Hey, they're no competing. No. I think in today's market and in in today's atmosphere, um, I just don't see it coming in at 6%. I mean, not with what we're trying to do here. So, and I think Brian kind of touched on this. We've we haven't been the leader by any means in in the levy increases over the last years, which is fine, right? We have to think about our local needs and and things like that, but you know, it there's always communities that are close to 20% it seems like on an annual basis somewhere in our region. You know, I think Dayton or Madina, you know, they've always they've always been very high. So, um you know, I think we're doing the right thing and just being really conscious about it and trying to right trying to do the right thing. Yep. I was gonna ask Brian um the license and permits you have it only going down by 9,000 from 25 to 26. Does that seem realistic? Think it's going to fall more than that? Um yeah. No, I think um it's possible. Yeah. If I talk to David a little more. I mean, some of that is going to be what our inventory is left as far as buildable lots and where we're at. So um yeah, that could be another pressure I guess as far as whether 7 if 750 needs to be 650 or something. So, yeah, I think I plugged that in more as a placeholder, but I probably got to get a little better data as far as if we even have depending on what happens in our uh development or future lots and stuff or whatever. If we even have 7500 left, I guess I think we'll we'll have probably a hundred left, but um we're looking there's some things that are out there swirling around. Um maybe we'll know more by the fall, which would be really good. Um but we don't know. Yeah. And in this year we're we're trending just like last year basically. So Okay. Um as far as permit numbers and revenue. Okay. But yeah, you can see back to like Yeah. Are we going to get a tornado tornado warning for us right now? Yeah, I know. For us Wonia and stuff here too coming in. It's really really the watch or the warning worse. I never remember. Warning. Warning worse. Yeah, it's just outside. Okay. What I'm going to do is say um can we adjourn right now? Okay. Is there a motion to adjurnn? So moved. So move. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Brian. Um all those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes for O. So um if you'll keep an eye on that and let us know. Do we need to go in that crummy old basement? The sirens haven't come off yet. There's no sirens. We're not quite in there yet. It's just outside of my Lester. It's approaching right now. So, yeah.