okay it's 5 o' and we're going to get started because we have a lengthy um work session agenda here uh this is the uh City Mina City work Council work session for October 7th 2024 um present this evening are myself Lisa way and the mayor and council members present are Cy rkin and McGregor Peter Hickory and Claudia Lacy and then staff that's present here is Al fski our city engineer Gary Peters our director of Public Works and Ali fos director of administration and then Jas krugle our city administrator Brian Grim our finance director and David AEL our community development director we have a number of items on our agenda water fund budget discussion the sewer fund budget discussion sa Von fous fire department pension increase request a special benefit analysis update of the 2025 road projects Bayside Jennings drainage discussion manage detection and response tool for networks and then we have a closed session regarding some litigation so with that I'm we're going to start out with the fund budget discussion right yes yeah I'll take that or start 10 slides right um Max 10 minutes 10 no I have no slides okay not 30 no no no yeah no it's mainly we're gonna be working off of the uh item in the packet so uh I'm sure everyone's had a chance to to read through that and um we did do the um had uh Shannon Sweeney with David drown and Associates update um helped do the update I know we did the full study back in 2022 and then it's been a year or two where I've just been updating it and then I thought it was I think I talk I did talk to Jasper too and we thought it was a good idea to you know have a little bit of um you know outside help again just with some of the larger projects we have coming up and um it's for a pretty nominal fee I guess I wanted to make sure I noted that or whatever so um but yeah so the items that were included in the packet this is like about the first 15 pages or so the packet was I mean the the the biggest item is the updated utility R study there and then from there um is some more internal reports on a draft 25 Water budget some year-to-date activity and then tried to just take the um current rates and then say you show the projected rates in just a onepage uh summary there um as far as the uh current cash balance in the water fund is about at 1.26 million and um I guess just from going through the rate we we can dive into the rate study a little more is um a 133% uh rate adjustment is What's um I guess from the staff perspective and through the um consultant Mr Sween at CH uh David drown would be recommended for to adjust in 25 knowing that these large improvements are coming online over the next couple years or the main large Improvement on the water treatment plan um I guess got a couple things to not is that um both the uh utility rates as well as the connection and area charges were are uh I guess recommended or proposed to go up by about 133% and you probably saw that on the the rate summary sheet I guess see maybe I'll just flip ahead to um page five I guess I want to get to the memo that um Mr Sweeny put together so some of the high points um you know we looked at maintaining a targeted minimum cash balance of about 1.8 million just the IR rationale behind that is not only does our operating costs you know go up every year and especially you adding another plant will add even small you know cost chemicals Etc but the larger item is the um the annual debt right now we have about 1.1 million in annual water fund debt and by the time this is all said and done and the Improvement done it's probably going to double at least close to it'll be in the low two millions for annual waterf fund debt so that's where we need to obviously you know we get the money to pay for it to our our rate users or water users so um that's what you'll see and we're trying to do the um 133% through it's talks about um on page six water rate impacts 13% through 2028 basically to support that so instead of doing like you know waiting and doing only eight or 10 now and then doing 15 to 20 later I guess our thoughts is that it's better to do 13 over four years versus do some sort of you know eight8 16 16 or whatever the math would be so um I guess you know we can talk about that um you know after that um there's more some inflationary adjustments that and therefore for 2029 and Beyond but obviously that's a ways off I don't know if it's best just to open it up for some questions you know sort of paging through the you know some of the the executive summary year you know it it basically ties into you know some of the uh improvements coming up you know the 15 million for the water treatment plant and then there's another six or so million for some ground well storage in the out years 2029 so but obviously that um you know we'll be talked about more as we get closer to that well that's one of my questions so you know we Dro down in 2029 down to a 3% increase is that really realistic if we're going to spend $6 million for another water tower water storage whatever um or are we just you know hey in 2025 we're going to do 13 and then well realistically in 2029 we're going have to keep the 13% going to cover the additional six million more um it's I mean you know running through the numbers hopefully we should have enough of a a base buildup that we don't have to do keep doing 133% you know because obviously the improvements more six million versus you know 15 million so it's just the economy's a scale I guess a scope or whatever is less but yeah I guess it's hard to know for sure until we know how many connections we get over the next four years and how like the actual cost you know the water treatment plan can be 12 million versus 15 million um so there's a lot of unknowns you know right now but um yeah know that's something definitely we wanted to make sure we had in the CIP plan and and to plan for and whether maybe that needs to be 6% versus 3% as we get closer 8% that'll be it's probably a little more focused on probably those three to four years you know next years as far as but the 133% is based on having to spend that6 million in 2029 so we're actually kind of like charging ahead of what our needs are because we don't really know we don't I mean there's so many variables yeah because what we're doing is we're saying we will indeed for sure be spending the six million in 2029 and so that's what I'm saying is Well we don't know that for sure we don't even know if it's going to be six million and obviously this you we'll look at every year but I I would say the the 133% I think is pretty conservative for what we need the next few years I mean I thought when we originally did this you know and Jasper talked we were thinking it could be 15 18 I mean it's just I mean $15 million is a lot to come up with and then you add interest on top of it because we're paying it over 20 years and stuff I mean we're adding at least a million in debt every year pretty much for the next 20 20 years you know starting whenever you know we issue the bonds whether it's next year whatever so for 2026 and Beyond that's fixed locked in I mean basically once we you know do it did you um do you have any examples of like um what an at a lowend and medium and high-end bill would look like or what it looks like today versus what it looks because I think you know we're we're thinking 13% that sounds like a lot too but but when you look at it in dollar AMS then it's easier to digest I jotted down a few numbers from just using example or billing registers and so someone that uses about 15,000 gallons right now which is you know five a a quarter you know 5,000 a month you know that would be reasonable user that's what I know I use at our family of four um is about $115 right now 133% increase would be about $130 someone that um or you know a property that uses closer to 30,000 and a quarter it's about just shy of $200 right now a quarter go up to about 225 so about a $25 increase someone that uses 60,000 in a quarter keep in mind that's 20,000 in a month you know that's a decent amount um go from about 408 to 461 so that's a little over $50 in a quarter so obviously if the people that cons serve more I mean it's I'd rather do a $15 increase than a 50 but that's sort of it's based on what people use no I know I just want so you're saying um tier one if it's 115 today it's 130 per quarter y not per month correct y okay yeah so yeah so $15 increase and then two 200 would go to 225 yeah and then 408 would go to 46 yeah yeah sort of a low mid and high yeah for cu obviously that's why we sort of set the tier at the the 65 because once you're getting above that you know obviously escalates faster but that's what we're trying to get people to conserve so if I may if you look on page 10 you can kind of see what a average user 25,000 gallons per quarter would get charged what they've gotten charged in 2021 all the way through 2030 what they potentially could be it's about like Brian said about $25 a quarter increase each year so 100 bucks a year for the average user um with this 13% in 25 and then in 26 another 100 yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so every every quarter it goes up 25 dollars yeah so $100 each year by 2028 there $400 a year more that they spend so that's it is so yeah it's I know some cities you know in that would be in our same oh you know use the tax levy to subsid we can't do that because we're not not everyone's on water so that's just not an option because cities do use that to soften when they do these big Improvement projects they just you know you add $50 to someone's bill you know quarterly bill on the year you can put $50 on the tax levy it's the same thing but right right yeah we're not able Brian tonight you're bringing this up for us to look far out you're not bringing this up for any changes to the 2025 yeah yes we go 13% you couldn't change the budget you gave it in this is this is the yeah this is budg that yeah yeah yeah that's why we always try to do like get the tax L we talk about that more in like August and into September because we got to have that set and then you try to follow up with the the water sewer in in the utility funds in October November to get because now we are going to accept those and talk about you know what does the council want to do for utility rates the other thing that's that we also don't know at this point is one what what the whole project for for 2025 26 has been a cost and is are we going to be able to get any bonding money we don't know either so yeah that's kind of how how did U fees come in from quarter three with the all the rain and everything um budget yeah we'll probably be um I think our third quarter billing was about 500 515 ,000 luckily we had T done a more conservative budget for 24 I mean year-over-year we're probably going to be down about a few hundred thousand like from one maybe 1.8 to 1.5 but to our budget we're prob we might be off by about a 100 thou you know thousand you know 5 10% or so just based on people using less with the we they're probably using more now than they normally would they could be their fourth quarter bill could be a little higher people are still using water in late September early October here so it's possible yeah but yeah I don't think we'll be too far off I guess in off of our targets question kind to do it I mean to to get I think that even over a few years is better than I think I don't know I mean I hopefully people see the the improvements on the horizon and we're talking about it stuff so there's it's allocated towards something we're not doing this just because we want to we're doing this because we have to so expensive very musle something on your roof and gete water everyone comfortable with and then talk a little bit about the wack fees and the connection charges where we at with those yeah so um I think we should raise those a little more than the 133% then I think we should maybe go 15% yeah so on page 17's a quick summary of where we are versus where we're at I think it's in the rate study too but this is just a quick um summary so right now the water connection fee is at 3,700 per unit and raising that by you know about 133% you know rounded amount um is about 4,200 about $500 increase and then the trunk water charge which we really haven't getting that obviously comes into play when the area trunk water charge when we develop um I guess we propose is to do that the 133% is about, 1500 or going from 11500 to 13,000 an acre so the new is it's I David you want to explain or do you want it's basically a just um basically when a a developer comes in and does their final you know plat or whatever anything above the what the ordinary high water level um they got to pay that much per developable acre or whatever so if you know some of these we've have gotten you know one two three even on wood and cold some of the different phases we'll get and some a little different have the master development agreement but um yeah if it's I guess 10 acres it would be 130,000 right because they're going be tying into our existing system that they hav paid for B so the connection fees and the trunk water charart or the area chart yeah it's also called A Wack a water area chart The Wack um basically pays for the infrastructure that they're going to be using if you will the new amounts how do that put us for neighboring communities we know I think our area charge has always been a little higher end when our connection charge isn't too bad I've seen there's some you know cities that are at you know four five th000 you know 6,000 even some everyone structures it a little differently but yeah I would say our area charge is probably a little more on the high end where our water connection fee if any has you know if we went to even you know 4500 I don't think that' be outline or something if we would depends on the communities if they're fully developed their connection fees are going to be higher but their area charges because they don't have developable land so sometimes I I would wager to say Mound connection fees are higher than ours quite a bit substantially for connection fees but they're they might not even have a trunk water charge because they don't have acreage yeah I wouldn't hesitate to go 4500 a connection 42 from a base of 3700 this year but we're proposing to go to 4200 by oh sure yeah I don't think that's you know when you're building a house know if you're building a house or you're adding you currently don't have water and you want to connect to it I mean I recently checked on Excel for our cabinet oh my God don't want to know anyhow I mean just to get electricity to our cabin was like 10 grand so 45 I all right pretty much do the rates at 13 area charges presented or the 133% 13,000 for the trunk water charge area then do the 4 pretty much for the utility rates they all would go up the same the percentage or whatever seure I guess that would be yeah move on to the rate study with that more more and I we have our our cost of operations to so um as far as the on page 18 B A little over million dollars Milli 45 right now 112 quarter large Council increase for their Charges going up about 72,000 404 470 so um as far as I guess we talked about as staff wise moving the quarterly fee to 12 125 a quarter range and maybe start at the 120 and um see how it goes I guess how our fund is doing I guess as far as um about 8 a quarter 32 for the year about a 7% increase and then bumping of the uh connection and and area charges by you know a couple hundred dollars each there from 1,800 to 2,000 I guess this when we looked at the the budget and the fund there so see there again I the connection in the acreage charge maybe even to 2400 each and then do the 120 125 I think that would be F you know most of those obviously when they're paying the water connection sewer connection let just paid at permit and yeah right when you're building a $500,000,000 house $400 here so and I think it's pretty explainable be tell from a staff perspective that you know a lot of this is a pass that counts and we're getting charged more so we have to charge you know our [Music] residents who's policing 18% like I see it says b their formula foring out cost who r that 18% yeah so they send us notice as far [Music] asend who so I don't know who they have a they have a large Board of Commissioners um staff that works for them they are appointed by the governor so they can they basically come up with a budget and I think their overall budget increased by 6.3% so their overall budget but the formula for whatever reason is causing us to increase by what is the formula I know they basically take all the flows across all the cities that are in the system and then they they allocated out based you know our percentage is 0 you know 015 whatever you know it's basically obviously their their budget's huge or whatever but um I think our flows went up by it was a 20 million or something or it was something that was it was substantial enough for that they're kind of a year behind so we have a big flow year then we have to pay for it the next year yeah 20 2023 we discharg 46 almost 47 million gallons and then uh that was just through our or I'm sorry 107 almost 108 108 million gallons um through our lift stations into the med counil system so and then we also have our flow through through St Bonnie which um discharged I have a total oh yeah 27 another 20 7, correct well they we they have their own flers we have ours at L station that's how we calibrate our pumps every year we do a calibration check just to make sure that what our pumping rate is so we are projected on this year because we have done more I I I was just gonna ask that yeah the I makes a huge difference like I've got that on the uh for some manoles on the agenda now if you take what that how much flow comes in through these cracks and braks and bikes the manoles and you look at that you're talking substantial dollars yeah every year just not leaks but we don't get charge any penalties like a lot of cities do because we are actively doing II already before I got here the city have lined up a lot of the sewer lines between the houses and the lake already all the easan areas have been lined which it you know really um gets rid of a lot of that II and they're really happy with that so we are projecting it down this next year for this year we should be a little bit less so so in 2026 we shouldn't see that 18% increase right well one thing to work here 44 project we did get um a lot of bang for our buckler I mean we got a whole new Li station n eight got redone um you know they done they we got whole new Force Mees that they they p through that Pro we pay for it but but I me it was that project that we that we got it done they're redoing their station 24 down here in Highland and I'm negotiating new curve and on Paving from the bridge to seven and in the deal so you know we'll we'll get you know some benefit but uh you know I we'll get our increase we do we did probably you looking at what we got from the 44 project you probably did get over a million worth of infrastructure from them so of course how much that was like a450 million project we were pennies on that but we did get benefit out of it so I think when we even look the I think compared to like not like looking at our neighbors always the NLB but I think compared to Mound and like Oro and stuff I mean our 476 isn't too bad some of that what they're yeah yeah so I mean that's at least was a silver mining I you know when I looked at that like we could you know glad we're not paying 600,000 a year or something or it's you know 475 but it's a lot of it's probably because and predecessors you the counil is did the inii and stuff whatever so okay all right so that 12 and then do the okay do that especially with the water CH and then the 24 do the 2400 for each of the sewer area and SE connection okay sounds good thank you st B anything else should be good and then fire department increase request how come they didn't go 65 so so I do not know why St Bonnie is recommending uh the 350 versus the 65 which was requested but what they're requesting from us is to evaluate the 6350 um as a no this is their annual pension so every year of service up to 20 well it actually keeps going but you're fully vested at 20 years um they get right now $5,700 per year of service they're looking to go to 6350 um for comparison Mound is at 61.85 so they're pretty close you might ask what will happen if we form a district or a jpa those would have to be evened out and likely go go to go to the higher one so um St Bonnie is is requesting that we uh weigh in on this request because it's in our contract that we do sell uh what we're looking at staff's recommending approving the proposed pension increase from 5700 to 6350 this will the pension fund will remain at 110% funded so they are overfunded at 6350 so that's the recommendation I'll stand for any questions for Market fluctuations yeah so if you know there's a big crash it'll go down to 90% And then work its way up it's generally you try to try to be between like 110 and 125 you feel pretty then the cities are the Fiscal Agent so if there's a gap and a firefighter retires and they don't have the money and the pension the city then has to cover that so you always you know kind of an insurance to have a little bit more funded than just 100% so how much Bigg as far as number of fight fighters um what does mound have 40 38 38 um and I think St body's at like 20 mid 20s something like that I look at it this way I think 6350 is still I think 61 I mean think about it you put in 20 years of basically volunteering and now you get 61 or 63 whatever it is a year this isn't a month this is a year it's like less than $500 a month how many people make and and it doesn't affect any of our budget so this is all self-funded so they have their own own um funds that they have at you know a broker of some sort um that manages their pension it is it is but it doesn't we're not going to have to pay more than what we normally do I guess is what I'm trying to get to and then are they are they as busy as a with us they are definitely yeah they have to do they have a lot of calls I never realized what they do not just so that's incredible stay on that for 20 years it is it is so this is on consent agenda I just wanted to talk about it briefly during the work session any other questions all right B yes Madam mayor M of council one of the that came up during um our public hearing is about the 2025 Street Improvement projects are well what are we going to do for assessments so one of the things that I kind of looked into was updating our 2022 benefit analysis that patch and mner did for the 2023 Street Improvement projects um after talking for a little while they've had some turnover it's a new person that I'm talking to they quoted that it would be about $3,000 or would be $3,000 to update the 2022 to help be reflective of the 20 25 projects you're following all the dates um so it basically they would provide us a report that would allow us to say oh here's the range again for a Reclamation project in 2025 based on the areas that we've um kind of determined one of the things that you know talking with them they don't they didn't feel that much would change from the 2022 and if you remember I think um the the Reconstruction we did1 for that this is a little bit different for 2025 as a Reclamation a little less intense but um we do have a couple different areas we have a rural section and we have an urban section one of the things that we talked about was the rural section it tends to be larger a lot so more footage the urban sections have curban gutter so and there's some spot repair that either has been done or will be done um in conjunction with the project so those things kind of their mind kind of wash out and the Reclamation like be the recommendation would be somewhere probably the same for Rural and the urban sections they don't know for sure this is all just conversation so one thing we could do instead of doing the you know $3,000 to get it updated is just kind of follow the model that we did in 2022 for 2023 um you know maybe settle into something similar to you know $10,000 per project or per per property for uh reconstruct which we don't have in 2025 and then something like 2500 per property or 7500 per property yeah we're dropping it down real quick 7500 per property for like a Reclamation so the the idea with this is I'm looking for direction do you want me to uh pursue patch andester to do an update for 20125 or we have to give Allison some direction as far as what we think for for assessments we want to do 7500 or a different number for the Reclamation projects or what is everybody thinking recomendation I spend another three to basically get same I'm surprised the prices haven't gotten up you know it seems like going up quickly um mad mayor if I may so we're seeing prices in the construction industry kind of stabilize a little bit because the development work has tapered off a little bit for these contractors so we're seeing some more competition for public projects now crystal ball is that going to stay I don't know that's that's the challenge that's why because we are drafting report um it doesn't mean the council is bound to do the special assessment methodology that we talk about in the feasibility report but we want our goal is to try to is to reflect what council ising towards and good you remember I think the feasibility report for um the morning Side East View area was like 50,000 I don't know some outrageous 25,000 or something so we had huge push back if you remember and people were very very upset so I think it would be our best interest if we could be really are wanting to or thinking if if you want to leave it up Alison and have put some number and have that have that yeah and I'm just going on here for the last Reclamation project that we did in it was either I don't know that it really was a differentiator between urban or rural we were somewhere around 7500 to 8200 you know depending on the project perod so we were in that that projects so that's to look aten um you know that was 202 bridge that number well you don't we justify go down but think it last year we did a full reconstruct and add curb and gutting on charge 10 so I think it would hard to JY now prices going up charging that was that was andru 10 so I think it's easy to go no curbing year will be curbing we're starting at 10 we can go down I just don't want to go up so what I'm hearing from the counil is there is an for an update on the special benefit analysis at this time so what would to do then Claudia Peter you guys need to no I I agree that 3000 is unnecessary the 10 what you just said Mak with the curb gutter so we can come don't have to if we stand we have to do something special if we need to no we just and one thing I'll know this maybe throws just another wrench there isn't really a correlation in how much the project costs and what the benefit is to the property so even though it might cost more the benefit might not be the same so that's kind of the balance that you have to have to look at so I think what we'll do then in the feasibility report we're certainly looking at project estimated cost for each project area and we would do an assessment calculation based on policy 50% and include that in the feasibility report I don't know where are at right now I don't know that we have enough information to do that and then in ility report mention of the 2022 analysis that was done $10,000 um so that res have some assurances that the council has looked at benefit you know what is maximum benefit to the property um and cly you see some inflationary bumps when you say you're going to mention the % assessment but yet would you then that number would you just say 50% assessment or Max that's a good question I one thing one thing that might come out of this too I don't we don't know the numbers but the 50% might be less than 75 we just don't know so yes if it's more than 10 I guess my 50% more than my just referencing 50% with a maxim so not mentioning certainly giving that direction we can include that in the feasibility report like I said I don't where where those calculations are coming at so if 50% is under 10,000 we would the the estimated assessment at this time is it's just throwing number $8,000 I don't know if that's correct um and then you could also include because we were hearing from some residents at that open house you know how do you know that that's a fair amount we would reference that 2022 special benefit to say like assessments presented proposed assessments 8,000 is still under that ,000 threshold that the council authoriz should say authoriz received all right um dra yeah thank you I will give this to Mr Peters as he is an expert in this area we had a phone call from a resident at 905 Bayside Lane asking to seeking our assistance see we can do for some drainage issues and my staff member went out there looked at it and said hey there's a drain right there let's hook up to this drain and that's where the whole problem started um the backyards of these homes all have um a drin issue due to um plantings trees um and just BMS in the it's just it's kind of a real real bad springs out there and uh Mr Rose boom out there has spent tens of thousands of dollars on tank systems in his yard being buried to collect water it's reing that helping with his and he just can't up um and when Rand storms went to look at it talked about the drain and stuff and brought back to my attention we started looking at this they cannot hook up to the train because supposedly that's a private storm sewer that's in the backyard there so um we talked him so we went back him and came with some ideas maybe you know taking it from his backyard to the street down the street Into the Storm sewer and he was all for he really thought that was a good idea and uh so he's going to pursue and some contractors to get pricing on it um we don't have an issue putting it there I said there's a RightWay permit charge of the 250 fee um you know helping get rid of the water and stuff like that so he talked to his Neighbor Next Door and she's like well the city did a project like that for me back in the day and uh miss out there called me and said doer issues that we' had been passed on here and we had a almost I on conversation about the problems she ran into after she built her house she bought a home out there the first one in there and all the issues they had with moist year water coming into the basement um just the poor drink out there that design of the area um she ended up putting in a basically a some station in her backyard she's thus now built a eated sh over it so she can keep it running because it runs every day 24 it runs all the time basically and she doesn't want to freeze up um so we went to the property so after this long conversation what she did there so said you know what do some investigating she said back in the day when they were looking at they could tap into that drain back there because it was put in by the city and the new owners there said basically told Mr R no you can't because it is ours you we were told by the city that um it's our drain ours all this so um looking back through the files we come across the um with her the moisture analysis that they did in there her house and all this stuff and to come meeting to coming to the council and asking for and the city did or a project there's two different types of projects put in there um one that would be into the corner drain catch Basin or I should say the stor structure where makes the bend there to come in but I guess back in the day there's a lot of trees there and and clear out a lot of trees they opt to go for another plan which just to bring it you it back on one p that's 13 p uh should be on 13 that but it's it's the drawing there is so little bit so they oped to go with the plan where he would have it come out of their house into this pump station there and then out to the storm sewer um it does not say works that did it or not I think it was highed out did P for this project though um looking at that because the the first plan plan a was um ni because of tree removals that's written in there and stuff and uh you might remember this very you're actually listed in there as proving it full disclosure there was 22 years ago and I've had how many hundreds of meetings since then so we should but U so I guess you know so looking at what we've done there and then when I don't call the neighbor just to ask about having any I said well you know heard you want just ask for some documentation so to see whether or not that is truly hers and what she has in place um and that's why kind of that was the text message she got from her that it was just the city told me at that so I guess um what we're asking for is um what can be done for there since we've done it for one but I just don't want to say Hey you know we should go have to do this but I think that we should have a few different things done first off I think you know if you want to pursue this which think could be good for a lot of people in that area to do this kind of have W kind toic look at the area how water is in that area what's collecting through there what can come through there um and what the capacity handling of that it's a 12 in so that drain that's in the ne's yard behind it is a 12 in smooth PVC pip and they're afraid it's going to over the system and I can understand that but this I mean 12in smooth e can take a lot of water I'd be more worried about our concrete structures anding down the road than I would that pipe so it' be nice to do kind of an analysis of that area how much water is coming through there um you know and could that if we just you know if it is decided that we could do something with that would work um you know also look at the feasibility will just having a piping system would that work coming from his backyard in the street down to the catch BAS is there enough fall have to be incorporated there is there enough for that even pursue it um and then also ask can to kind of investigate this SE system you know is it truly theirs there's no easement over anything right now but the city put it in so to the city system what does it entail I somewhere down the road I assum in the house sold it had to be in there that this was there I don't know if there's paperwork somewhere but um you know is it you know truly theirs or is it City owned you know we put it we can't find any on the 880 JS um Co Road property file all that being in there you know when it was put in the only thing we have is if you go to the as bu there only thing that shows is this document right here and the as built for that it shows is it just says a 12 in PVC pipe with a question mark with an arrow you know through that's all it shows up in the corner that's all we have on record G the other the other question isn't um if it if the pipe itself can handle it but if you recall I don't know if you were hearing that it's the pond so all that water is going to then go to that pond the jny CL Pond correct it it goes on the lake okay all that goes down to the lake not into the pond but here's the issue the pond is the issue because the pond is what the city had problems with 12 15 year 20 years ago whatever it was under sized and so now if you're going to be adding water from from that's why we need to have see what you know how much water is there you know how much is coming through that's why you do a topographical that and look at that I mean you know there there's a house there's a house know 20156 or but you know that I remember you know there does need to be some investigation for these guys too I mean you know honestly I mean I do feel bad for they have spent tens of thousands of dollars he still has these issues I I can't imagine see if we can figure it out you know but I don't know you guys want what the next steps are if we can do that would Beal for why is this City's responsibility I mean because the meeting minutes from 22 years ago said here's $1,000 you fix it we're giving you the money but that's it but why are we going to do this on everyone's property that was just used there's a block got problems the ho not the city so like why why is this our well because we don't know if that's our pipe or not we Haven main years and they say it's there nobody's like nobody's coming to the city saying that's the city's to do this but here's the other thing this man he has nowhere else he has no other options whereas the HOA Woodland Cole probably had some other options whereas this guy water is there and he can't he can't divert it any and the new drin system you know that they put place now I mean there would be drains to the backyards like there is now in Woodland coold I mean you know there's there's a lot of drainage options for you know back of the day there wasn't these options here um feel it back that's between these two developments was the driveway to the house to the main Farmland back there it's maintained for quite a while so I yeah I don't know out there this is above my P BR to you guys and you guys make the decision of what you know what to do with it I'm just throwing out some ideas that would help them but it's totally up to you guys you know the next steps what you want to do with it and you know so and when was this house built this was built in early 2000s 1997 okay and this is the first not not the J cult the 905 b side 1997 this is the first time he's come to us complaining of was he was ask yes yeah because he was doing it on his own trying to that's I see saw all these tanks in his yard and he's still getting you know overrun with water and stuff so he was just kind of and he you know and he wasn't you know M he was just ask what can I do you know is there any other options with you guys he was out of options so he's just asking us what we could do and that's we just you know brought up that drain and you can see it right there it's basically there's a little burm in the way you just s it right to the drain and there goes the water it's gone you build it they bought it in 200 there's a lot of houses in Vista and around the lake that have musy waterfill front backyards and I I just don't I don't know how we will determine how we help a mushy yard yard full of water there's lots of that all the houses Landings have mushy waterfill backyards so I just but they yeah but when you think about how the water fills let's just take the landings for instance they their backyard go like this right down into Jen's Bay I mean they have sometimes there's and along you know the breezes HS I mean they have ponds in there so if we do this for this yard we're just going to open up big can of Snak for every other yard I mean that's my question sitting water lots of yards with sitting water some years it will this become our problem at some point would be the pipe right there you like when you de that it is the maintenance of that just so what do you think all this do you think what do you think a solution what do you think a study C you think soltion I [Music] P there no first first feasibility few a few thousand so to me is there's other Gary mentioned is another component of this is to establish who who really does that's yeah I me that's not feasible that you know grievances that is their ours whatever then this is not void and'll be doing ping system let's do that you know so you know that that me probably is this get into you know it is then we go back and say would it handle it you know would the system handle it but if if the council is to do that you're not willing to do if you don't want to do it you know thenan that's that's your choice you don't want to do it if you're not g to purs anything you know then it doesn't pursue doesn't even buy who owns the bik that's what I'm saying you've got $5,000 to spend I'd rather spend it on seniors someone's yard well we can take this the problem is Springs I mean we have Springs there Springs every there's a lot of well that's the thing like I feel bad for him and the problem that has no other Solutions but it's not our fault we haven't maintained it hasn't been like every year who complains about this to us like help help help and you're opening a can of works if you do it for this because there's dozens of other that's not the point the point is is it responsibility is it I well here's here's my take first of all we don't get inundated by these type of requests if we got one every single week then we could say hey we got to have a policy regarding this okay we don't this has been the first well request in 22 years so um I um I always think to myself if somebody comes as a resident constituent and says here's a problem I have can you help me fix it then I say why not I mean that's why that's why we're here we want to make people's lives better we want to make their lifestyle their their their living conditions better so I guess what I would suggest is find out exactly what it would cost to do um one you know the um s figuring out how to if it does Belong To The City or if there's some other way of doing this asking this gentleman if he's interested in paying for that because if he said I'll pay for it why not you know so let let if he's interested in paying the $5,000 to figure out how we can take the water off of his property and put it into a city system that handle it why not that's the way I feel too we're here to actually help our residents anyway we can without it costing the rest of the taxpayers and I understand your point about LS and lot ofer one full water you're get and the policy would be up and the policy would be well if you're willing to pay for a feasibility St like that and to determine how how and how we could help you then we are willing to do that I mean some property cost others because it has problems like this okay if you to study fine to pay for it if I me I think what we need to do is find out if we own the pipe I mean that's the that's the number one thing if we own the pipe then we can see well you want to study to see if you can look into it so I think we there we still need to do a have keny and gr do a little bit of work to figure out do we own this pipe is it ours should have we been maintaining it and the answer is no then it then this kind of yeah then it stops because there's no really other way to pursue it I mean I know sir what would it cost to do something like a study on that you'll kind of see what ownership of that is or do you have a rough estimate I mean do you know if it's I it was part of the J called developments not it's abstract the development do that and that research and let them know our job that a HOA shouldn't they figure that out instead of it might be in their DEC if it is something that belongs HOA but if it's not it might not be addressed decoration just be something that's recorded against these people's property you know if it's the cities they have City our knowledge there is there is no going on anything we say doation have right there on on this as do have that no's there so so then we have Sarah look up find out confirm that we don't own the pipe and then we let the resident know we don't and then they want to pay for a study or something after that and that's their decision I think then it's a private pipe they would just have to work with their neighbor to see if they can hook into it you know yeah no that's yeah no that's [Music] fine okay yep thank you um so next manage detection and response tool for the city networks yes uh Madame mayor members of council uh one of the items that came up um Ali and I sit in on a monthly kind of network check call With wafler Our IT manag services provider and one of the things they brought up was this MDR manage detection and response Network tool um it's essentially i' say next level cyber security looking to see if somebody has infiltrated our Network and is messing around um changing log files it looks at just changes in our Network that aren't normal and then it Flags it and it looks at it something that can help combat um things like ransomware some fishing attacks things like that it's it's another level of kind of insurance to cyber security um that we have I'd say we keep up with our cyber security and updates on our servers and making sure everything is is um you know supported by our it not just LOF but the hardware um companies you know we we do a good job we spend a lot of money on our it looking at Brian because it's like it always there's always something this is just another tool that they're recommending that cities and you know a lot of small businesses use MDR um to kind of add that next level of of um kind of monitoring of our Network so with something like this there's obviously a cost um there's a onetime implementation fee of $675 and then a reoccurring monthly charge of $827 yeah it's pretty expensive you know 10 10 grand a year um theany is they would recommending company perch P CH there's a couple other vendors do MDR Artic wolf is another one their cost is almost double with purchas um so and then so it's Lo like are we paying first directly or is ler taking a cut of what we've pay first no we play we pay uh we enter into the agreement directly waffler manages that you know make sure that they on our Network so ller we understand it doesn't receive any sort of they don't upch charge or anything the city ofap I'm almost POS I don't know I can almost guarantee that they do have some sort of MDR system on their network uh a lot of small businesses do it you know recently there's been a couple things little cyber attacks but you know some fishing campaigns that have been successful in the municipal world and mayor and uh bla recently so these things aren't going to go away always just try to stay like kind of one step ahead but we do have that so we already have MFA for people accessing the network so all the employees that access it we do have MFA okay I'm not against having one Bas so I would say this is this is already the discount MDR yeah um but I can come back with more but this is the lowest one this is the one they recommend to be most cost effective for Network our size um like I said AR Artic wolf I think has a better reputation and these things called MDR Wars which people try to get into networks and Artic wolf won those um but they are roughly twice as much as perch what's the worst thing that can happen we could uh there's a lot of things yeah they could get into skada is generally air gapped or separated from our Network um but um you know they could get into our financial system they could change things they could you know all kinds of different things yeah so I mean the idea with MDR is that they can kind of see what normal activity is and if there's anything outside of normal gets flagged and then whatever computer that's happening on gets partitioned right away and then it's off and then they can kind of do an examination so it's insurance basically we can choose not it it's a should um I think it's best practices do does every city have MDR protection no they don't how manyi do have that I don't know um money is weared out of your account it's wired it's gone um but that's generally a little bit different a lot of times what you get is Rand some wear attacks so they get on your milons and millions dollars they probably have MDR yeah mayor got it I mean they'll get all different sizes we still have a lot of large transactions you know even as a smaller Community even with our insurance renewal each year they always keep asking about what type of cyber security enhance we're doing and that and I think they TR into their premiums are we not insured for oh no we we're insured to the maximum we can it's like 500,000 something which that's that covers the hardware that you have to get replaced maybe I I think we should do it my only question is can we take this out of our budget oh we we could if we weren't four in that department yes you know at least for 2025 if we you know could take it out of that and we we could I just don't think there's enough I think it's ouring the cable yeah 32 there's only like 31 or 32,000 it's like 21,000 yeah like 30,000 might be a little high amongst all the funds and departments that 10 you we sprit to water and sewer and all the different places it's not that big a hit on yeah the general fun it's probably I mean it's it's probably a good idea to do it's just the the atmosphere of like cyber attacks they're always trying to get one step ahead so MDR is what's you know kind of the the newest thing that you can do but then there's going to be some other way that somebody tries to get on our Network we just hope that they don't come after us [Laughter] yeah you don't want to wish you had it in hindsight it's like you hate to let me ask question okay um haven't gone through VPN with bad experiences and finally taking them off completely thanks to's advice we're not I know but basically it's not something that's fail um we won't rely on it to gain access to our network if that's kind of what you're asking it's just kind of it'll sit there in the background and hopefully just monitor everything and it won't we won't even know it's there where the VPN have something on the server fails we might not be able to get on to theet work so so start start in 2025 so January 2025 yeah okay thank you to our close session we need to close the door who needs to stay and who needs to go um I think maybe D then yeah and we'll do a motion Craig St and Gary oh yeah if you want to read the the um reason on here then I'll close the meeting down and then we'll we won't be recording all right city council The District Court entitled Smith and Vis versus City number 27c do I have a motion I have to relist the whole thing and Mr vicory made that second all those in favor secondos motion passes we are now in Clos session do you need um