all right this is the March 18th Mina city council work session and we will call the meeting to order and attendent tonight is myself Kathleen rkin acting mayor council members here tonight are Peter vicory and Claudia Lacy mayor whan is not here and a council member and McGregor is also not in attendance uh we also have director of Public Works KY Peters director of administration Ally pus um city clerk and myeroff City administrator joser krugle Director of Finance Brian Grim Community Development director David AEL and chief of police Paul Falls uh item number one is to call order item number two is discussion of Maple Crest Bond Brian yes umam may and Council so I know this one came up I think towards the end of the year and even for sure what in the last quarterly Financial update in in February and and staff was aware of this even at the end of um during last year even as far as just um this uh Maple Crest bond which was a project back in 2008 and I was actually here for that one very very early in my career so but um and it's actually the 2014 Aon because it was refinanced in 2014 I think rates were pretty high in' 08 and then got better in uh 2014 so um one of the things on that project there was some large assessments um due to think David remembers a little bit the proposed development in in Maple Crest that really did didn't end up going through but there was multiple Lots platted and stuff or whatever so ultimately that um that parcel paid off early like in 2017 2018 where there's a lot of assessment Revenue that sort of went away or whatever just you because they obviously that was something that the probably the property owner that then took it over you know several years later decided to uh avoid some of that interest or probably did someone you know banking or financing on their own so I guess um the long story short so the uh fun right now is at a small negative balance and we project to have you know that happen for the next few years just based on our maximum tax levy versus our principal interest payments would probably be a 105,000 gap so if we just continued to pay it off we just by the end of it 20127 we'd have about you know $50,000 you know so or $50 to $60,000 negative balance in the fund but um you know if we would we do have you know some funds available whether it's maintenance fing what staff's suggesting to just um pretty much paid it off with that uh basically 200,000 left in principal with you know just a tiny bit of Interest we'd save about $123,000 in the interest and then from there um the 35,000 a year we've been levying to pay this debt you know fund we could just put that right back into the road maintenance fund so that would actually just be some additional revenue or available Revenue to go um in future year so um we checked with um Ellers and Todd Hagen there and um you know usually we have after eight years we can call the bonds or whatever so we're past that with us being 2014 so um we just have to notify the bond holders and you know I think do a resolution at one of our next Council meetings that we want to pay it off and then I think we'd be able to do that by this summer you know May June and just pretty much have that off the books and it's I guess one less debt fund out there and um and then even just did I think I mentioned in the memo this one SC was an older one had a June December payment schedule all of our other ones are February August they just time better we usually you know get our tax payments at the end of the year and then in the middle of the year so it just works a little better because sometimes by June I mean this one's not that large of payment but you know for some other ones it it can be a little bit more of a waiting for a tax payments to come in um just a cash flow type of item so I don't do anyone have any questions I know I think the the mayor might have even been the one that sort of you know even brought this up a little to it at one of the last meetings so um but yeah I guess I'm open for discussion so would this then this would cut into the money that we have for the projects later on like we were talking about for 2026 and 27 well ultimately there's going to need to be a a funding source to to pay this and it's more of just a timing difference we pay it off now and then we'd have we'd actually have money to be able to Levy we'd have less debt Levy to have to Lev and 25 6 and 7 so we could it give us more flexibility in future years as far as how our you know when we look at our overall budget and overall Levy so it's sort of a I know it's a trade-off we'd either need to do something in 2027 to to make this fund hole or do something now and then basically pay it back over few years but this saves us 12 to $133,000 it does right now so yeah so we that's the the main benefit right off the bat yeah if I may to answer Peter's question we won't have to scale back any of the projects or anything because of this um there's adequate fund balance in the fund right now uh to pay this off right now I then we build that back up but um generally the money in the the Street Maintenance fund goes towards um like the maintenance pieces like what we we have tonight on the on the agenda for consideration so we won't have to scale anything back I don't know if that was yeah I guess I should have point out yeah in the funding at the at the bottom that the balance is about 1.8 million in the fund right now so it's it's got sufficient balance to to be able to to help this other fund out and all the other debt funds are have healthy balances and stuff so this should be sort of a oneoff or an anomaly as far as one that just basically with some of the the interest rate es and flows over the years this one and then what happened is we lowered the tax levy little but we should have probably sooner L But ultimately it's you know the residents got a little bit of a benefit for a little lower tax levy and when ultim it all comes out of the um city taxes you know whether it's a debt Levy or whether it's a you know road maintenance Levy or general fund Levy it's we've usually looked at the total you know Levy whether you know we at that you know six and a half 6 point whatever million now and um but each individual fund has to be looked at each year just because of fund accounting and stuff so so if we're paying it off now then um we're continuing to Levy so taxpayers are paying a little bit more um over the next couple of years that they wouldn't have had to if we just pay it off and reduce the levy but you're saying to leave it at it where it is and then it'll help build back the balance yeah I mean ultimately if you if we wanted to we could just pay it off and then you know I know we pretty much look at the road maintenance fund as far as each year do we want to add 100 125,000 150,000 this this 35,000 would just be something that'll be like available to almost help be like a feeder feeder money to to help um you know basically it's some it we don't have to Levy it here so it's available over here so it's not a big enough chunk that would cause us to reduce the RO even more yeah ultimately it's not a real material Factor yeah okay thank you does that seem like something to yeah oh that sounds reasonable to me okay yeah cludia yes and we just let ERS ERS know 30 days and yep yeah so we I'll follow up with Todd and I know we're even starting to look at some of for with all these projects or you know some of the other projects and water projects coming up there this was another just another item on the on the to discuss with ERS so we we'll follow up and and bring that back to the council one of the next meetings as far as the just the logistics and coordination so so we make the resolution at the next meeting is that I I think so yeah I think I wanted you wanted to get the uh bran to a work session first and at least have a brief discussion and then have that um we'll have the Bond Council and 's work with even kenning to prepare that resolution to to call these bonds any other questions no thanks Brian next is Public Safety Equipment requests and funding Chief thank you Madame mayor councel um so we've had a number of discussions leading up to tonight uh regarding the public safety funds uh and that was uh not split evenly but it was split between basically operations and C so um since that we started talking about some of these funds um you know there's been a lot of question about what do we spend some of this money on um we're not certainly asking to spend all of it uh but uh through a lot of the things we've been looking at as a result of that discussion um I have a couple of things that we can discuss tonight uh in kind of order of important so the first item uh we've talked a little bit about um license plate reading cameras or lprs um and a lot of this data is in the your packet um but uh so long story short uh license plate reading cameras are are technology that's been around for a long time uh and uh it started out as devices that were attached to cars police cars themselves uh and it's kind of in the last couple of years transitioned uh to more uh permanent locations to try and gather data um and so what they do is uh license plate reading cameras are are installed generally on feeder streets um so that you can gather data basically what the technology does is it will read license plates and then check it against the ncic database which is uh to make it for you know I guess in a nutshell version of that is the database we use when we run a license plate so that'll give us who the vehicle's registered to it'll give us information about the registered owner uh whether or not they have outstanding warrants or uh things like that so kind of high level stuff that is probably important to know for public safety reasons so what these cameras do is they gather that data and we can set this device up to give us direct notifications right to our Squad phones so for example if a vehicle is uh listed in NCC database as stolen we'll get a hit and our staff will get that notification right away so if they can go and and deal with that um it'll also do things like Amber Alerts um registered uh um warrants if people are wanted people for certain things and we have a lot of uh input as to what the alerts look like so obviously we'd want to be alerted to Amber Alerts things of that very high level nature um you can dial this all the way down to people with suspended driver's licenses if you'd like to um certainly there's an interest in not having people driving on the road that don't have valid driver's license or don't have insurance or have serious warrants for their arrest for various reasons so um this technology like I said has been around for years in the metro area there are dozens and dozens of police departments that already have this in place um what I can tell you is that in the lake area we are the only agency that does not have these in place so deep Haven and South Lake have them uh y Zetta Long Lake Orno West henen also have them so we're kind of the last piece of the lake area Corridor that does not have these in place and so um if Our intention if if this these cameras are approved would be to put two of them along County Road 92 and two of them along Highway 7 so that entire Lake Area cdor would be covered by this technology um they are directional so unfortunately you can't just put one camera um they're directional so you have to put one facing north and one South on 92 and the same on seven East and West um I think Chief can I ask you a question yes um so you're thinking like at the major intersection at 7 and 44 or where did you say well uh I'll get to that so well I mean I guess do you have to stop to read it or does it can it read it going no it doesn't affect traffic at all so these are just mounted on polls and it just reads the information so traffic unless they see the camera won't even know it that it's happening so it doesn't affect traffic at all um unfortunately mot does not allow you to put these devices on any of their infrastructure that's something that this flock safety is a company that provides these they're working with mot but obviously mot's a very large organization lots of layers uh for approval processes and things like that so they're not there yet with the henpen county the county will allow them to put polls in the county right away and that's new um both Oro and West hennipen have had these for some time but they were kind of in the beginning stages so my Approach was let's let them work the bugs out because there were a lot of them in the very beginning um and now we're to the point where those things have all been resolved fortunately for us the city owns the uh the light poles at seven and kingspoint road so that's a free poll to put these devices on we don't have to purchase anything they could just be installed uh at that location and that's a very good location um you'll still get Eastbound and Westbound with enough time um if you get an alert for our staff to respond that doesn't mean we're going to get them 100% of the time but if we have them and South Lake has them somebody's going to get them so uh and be able to investigate whatever the alert is so um with that said I think a lot of the bugs have been worked out I think in addition to the alerts and this information is in your packet as well so uh certainly if I'm talking too fast or you have questions feel free to interrupt at any point but uh from an investigative standpoint these are uh a really tremendous investigative tool um because it allows staff to look back if we have a a burglary for example and we can find from a ring camera that it's a red truck but we don't have a license plate we can go back to the LPR cameras in the area or on the route that we think they likely would have had to take to get into that location uh and we can go back and and narrow down data and and investigate that way and if there's only you know five red trucks well we get license plates on each one of them that's not that much followup and we have a potential suspect or a link to a suspect so uh investigatively speaking this is a tremendous tool so um so it records all of us then is that so if we're just driving to and from the grocery store or something it and it would how long does it keep that data and and are there any privacy protections for yes uh innocent people that is a great question so uh bottom line is uh it does read all of the plates um in that area as long as the angle is is correct uh so all of the plates that go by that reader will be read so this system is set up on an encrypted system so this isn't just some um Fly by the seat of their pants type of business that has their own server uh there's all kinds of criteria place and it's all encrypted data so um what that means it's it's stored at the highest level of security um encrypt there isn't a higher level of security than an encrypted data encrypted is the highest security level available so uh and this system is designed to re if if there's no uh Flags or uh investigative inquiries it just records over itself in 30 days so it's only stored for 30 days and then it just records over itself so the vast majority of data that is collected is just deleted after 30 days oh okay does that answer your question yeah okay yeah and and what's been the um result P Lake and or no have they been successful in Catching like any of the the you know break-ins or people with criminal records yes absolutely um most notably for burglaries or those types of crimes they were able to narrow down not in every case of course depending on the location of the crime and and the location of the camera that's why we chose to put them on major routes um and we all kind of have the same thought process so this way the whole entire Corridor Lake Area Corridor will be covered by these devices and so um I don't know I can try and see if there are some public links that I can send to you um because this is a national company so there are all kinds of success stories um not just in Minnesota but around the country of how these cameras um solved crimes many of them very serious crimes I think there's a couple stories of Amber Alerts that uh these devices hit on and as a result one of them I know was not in this state was a child was in the car was a stolen vehicle I think the suspect probably didn't know there was a child in the car and the car was abandoned in a fairly remote location well had they not had the the camera hit on that they likely would have never looked there for the car and the child likely would have not survived because um you know time obviously would have been of the essence there so but there's all kinds of stories like that as a result of these type of devices where no where on 92 would you put that so 92 we would we would be able to put up they make polls specifically for these so we those we would have to purchase uh and that information is in your packet as well uh and we can get to the price when we get to that part um likely we put one kind of far north on the North End likely 26 West area um if we put it further north than that there's too many points where they can turn off so we'd like to get them into that Corridor before we put the camera because then we know once we get a hit we've got a lot of time to catch them um and then probably on the other end the south end that one would face North and then seven they'd be at that Kings Point roundabout in that vicinity one Facing East one facing west just because we the city owns this the polls there so how many cameras would so it would be four cameras total [Applause] um and the cost printing is really small and they didn't bring glasses is that a it's just over $133,000 for four for four cameras um flock safety owns the cameras the beauty of that is they do all the installation all the maintenance we don't have to do any of that so it's not just another electronic device that we're responsible for cleaning maintaining updating things like that that's just all part of this price uh the downside is there is an ongoing annual cost to operate these um I should get into uh one of the best parts of this is not only can we see our cameras but we can share these cameras with Oro for example and they can share theirs with ours so now we become part of this whole Lake Area system even though we're going to hopefully rent or purchase four of these cameras um we would be able to see all of the cameras because now we're part of that system um and these cameras aren't just uh in the public sector they're also in the private sector so for example if you had an agency or or a business or uh even HOAs some use these cameras um you could if they give you permission you'd be able to see those as well certainly we would not give a public organization access to ours but it can go the other way so we would be able to from an investigative standpoint that's a pretty uh nice tool to have um I can think of a couple recent incidents we've had where we've tried to work with people in their ring cameras and things like that those are beautiful if the crime is occurring right in front of their house um but you know un unfortunately a lot of these things happen in the back and very few people have ring cameras in the backg so hasn't been very successful so these cameras can catch the license plate even if it's zooming through the intersection think of it like an iPass reader when you're going through Chicago wow right your license plate has um there's barcodes on them so it it reads it it's not just taking a digital photo of the number um it can it just has the technology to be able to read the plate um because there's some refle itive uh barcodes in there does it do it at a pretty high percent like does it hit like 90 100% very high percent I mean obviously when they install them they'll be out there getting the angles just right testing them and um and then they do routine maintenance because the cameras obviously need to be cleaned once in a while and things like that but I just have one more question yes so if someone damages the camera does flock replace it or do we no they replace it that's part of the agreement cuz they own they technically own this stuffff we own the data they own the device itself is that part of like the $112,000 annual cost or is that more for the yes that's kind of you know anytime you have electronic devices there's there's operation operational licenses um in the very beginning when some of the lake area agencies started one got the devices and then others added to it they were kind of operating under one license which isn't allowed the BCA obviously caught on to that wait a minute that's not how this works you all have to do that because then everybody's accountable for their own devices how much has the uh annual cost increased over time is it pretty stable or is it it is pretty stable this flock safety is relatively new to Minnesota although they've got dozens of agencies around the state um and they're growing very quickly um but it's my understanding that the price has not increased much at all I I don't have exact numbers for you but these are the same numbers that uh I've been talking about with this company for well over a year is that pretty incremental say if you ever added four cameras versus six cameras versus two cameras is that 12,000 pretty is that more for licenses or is it per camera or that's more for the device and the licenses yes so the 13 the difference between what we would pay initially and that ongoing 12,000 is there's a couple of polls that we would have to purchase uh put the devices on along the county road because there just isn't really a good location there we talked about some of our outdoor warning sirens but they're not really in the locations where we would want them or they're too far off the road uh because the angle is too great to capture Place uh most of the license plates um so the reoccurring cost after the initial install is the 12,000 yeah kind that doesn't seem real material for not too bad and we it sort of probably be similar to like um like in the CIP we went to the different model of the on the radios and stuff we probably would have an annual cost you know for that have to build that in you know as a Bas each year into our CIP fund or equipment fund or whatever so right I I guess the way I look at this and a lot of departments look at this is It's it's just this technology is allowing us to do business in a much more efficient manner rather than going out and making five million traffic stops hoping you find the one with the warrant or whatever you get these alerts and it's just very efficient so you're kind of getting the high Lev stuff right out of the way uh and and you that way you can have resources where you need them when you need them because that's a really difficult thing to judge without that type of data so I know there are people that are concerned about you know their their privacy and things like that and my answer to that is I I completely understand that I mean I I drive around in my own personal vehicle as well and I think that the bottom line is there's all kinds of statistical data attached to this um that shows that crime levels go down drastically in areas that have these types of cameras is that because the the constituents know that there's cameras there right I think they're fairly new but criminals it was just like tasers in the beginning they had no idea what they were once people figured out what that is they were much more compliant uh this same thing criminals don't like to be on camera they want to go burglarize someplace where they feel like nobody knows they're there um so that statistically is just going to do a I think from the deterrent Factor alone is is huge and these will be highly visible so do our neighboring I know I'm constantly asking these questions sorry do our neighboring cities also have them they do um so let me see if I can find so Lake Area agencies um it's kind of done two ways but so Yetta Police Department obviously they have some in Yetta they also Yetta covers Long Lake Long Lake also has some of these cameras Oro has them along Highway 12 I think there's some on Shoreline as well uh West henpen has them on Highway 12 uh I just learned today that deep Haven PD has them I don't know where those are located uh and then South Lake has several of these cameras as well so um and like I said we've been talking about this as police Chiefs for quite some time and my thought was I heard a lot of the issues they had initially uh and it just made more sense to let them get the bugs worked out um for a period of time and uh so I think they've gotten there and this company has developed relationships with henb and con and they're working on mind so it's just getting better all the time so it has no traffic control functions like catching speakers things no NOP um this is uh you you've probably heard of the like the traffic ticket cameras those types of things and those have been challenged and whether or not they're constitutional or not and that that's all still kind of working its way through it really depends on whether you can identify the driver it's not just I have vehicle a and it's registered to the you so you get the ticket well you have to ident identify who the driver is in order to successfully make that happen but these don't have any like enforcement ability at all they're just capturing data that we can use um and really sifting out the vast majority of of people this isn't going to affect them in any way at all um it's really the people with warrants or Amber Alerts or uh stolen vehicles things like that um and if if officers I mean they make traffic stops obviously every single one of them is for a legit legate reason and they're obviously trying to make the road safer this way they they know who doesn't have a driver's license they can stop if it turns out not to be the registered owner they just let them go um but there's all kinds of things they can do with directed patrols here that just makes it so much more efficient than the way they do it now and it would be an addition to what we're doing now so does it just pop up in your patrol car or is it on a computer back at the station uh we would set it up so that the alerts go to the squad phones the cell phones because it uses cellular transmission and we have all the Necessary Technology to make that work on our end yes yep and the flock safety is uh um they've been really good at implementing this system for the other agencies so they would come out install all the devices and then they would put the uh the app on our phones and then test it and verify it Train everybody that's all included in this so if um it gets approved how long does it take to get them and get it up and running that's a good question they couldn't give me a concrete answer but the turnaround time is pretty quick um I would imagine seven will go quick because the city owns the poles so that piece is is good I don't know what the installation time is for these polls um that they put along the county road it's not like a telephone pole it's not going to be something thaty enormous so I would think those would go pretty quick too but um we didn't uh they weren't interested in getting too far into the weeds until we had a discussion to see if we were even interested or if it was a possibility for us so that's kind of our first step tonight I'm good with it yeah at 30 square miles I get the idea of the efficiency that's a good idea yeah one of our biggest challenges is all our development is on the south end the majority of it and then on the North End so it takes an enormous amount of time to get from one to the other yeah and if you have calls where you need two or three people all of your staff end up south or north and then it takes a long time to get back so anything we can do to try and make things a little more efficient I think is a step in the right direction well I think safety is our our communities one of our top concerns so and our police men don't ask for very much so I totally support this if you think you need it absolutely I think this is great technology and I think it would benefit our residents tremendously especially as we continue to grow and crime rates are just inevitably going up everywhere fortunately ours is low but we'd like to do what we can to keep it there so I think this is a step in the right direction to help us just another tool to make that happen so does it come back then on a resolution or does he just go forward with it it it'll come back um once we get a like some Hardline numbers and maybe a little more information but it'll be probably on April 1st or April 15th thanks it says equipment requests is there more than one or is it just for the four cameras at once I don't know that's one of them I feel like uh I'm I'm asking for too much here so as we're talking about Public Safety money there's just a number of things that obviously over the years we've done the best we can with what we have uh one area that we know that we need to probably make some improvements in is our Patrol rifles um for years we have assigned them to cars so we have we have eight marked cars two of those belong to the CSO so they do not have rifles in them uh I think we currently have 11 Patrol rifles so all of our patrol cars have them mine has one the lieutenant the investigator the the uh and the school resource officer uh and also the drug task force um officer has one um the challenge is starting to become that we're getting big enough with enough staff where it's really hard for one Firearms instructor to go and qualify or site in all of these rifles um our SWAT our officers assigned to the SWAT team don't have rifles assigned to them um Oro and west tenpin and south Lake assign rifles to St so they just take their rifle to their training whether it's swapped or whatever it is um ours have to take them out of cars because they don't have their own um so it's just kind of getting to the point where we probably need to do things a little more efficiently than we have been um in order to make that happen to do it the way everyone else is doing it um we'd need to add four Patrol rifles and so the beauty of that is everyone gets assigned a rifle they're going to last longer because it's just one person carrying and using that rifle instead of multiple people they're not coming in and out of cars all the time getting banged around um the SWAT guys on assigned to the SWAT team would have their own rifles for the most part the rifles are set up identically they're all the same make style things like that but they would be able to customize little things like grips to meet their needs everybody's not the same size things like that uh customize it which I think is really important when you get into SWAT applications um and so that's something we've been talking about again for for a lot longer than we've known about Public Safety money so the ask here is that we would be able to add four more rifles that would allow us to assign rifles to staff rather than to cars um and to be able to have our SWAT guys have a rifle they can use for that as well um so that uh when we look at the rifles we have now are relatively new which is a good thing um so we would match what we currently have um and to get us so there's the rifle there's a suppressor that's on the rifle and some uh other items like uh Red Dot sits um lights things like that so the rifles themselves are fairly expensive uh so the total of four new rifles fully equipped with all of the goodies without going too far in the weeds is just over $99,500 for four rifles I know that's a big number but um I guess I'll just throw it out there unfortunately nothing is cheap I think the timing's at least good that we did get the public safety money at the end of December otherwise I probably wouldn't be a supportive no support of PA but no I would probably be asking more questions I guess or no I don't know but I know he researches what he needs and stuff and he's is efficient and from working with him over the years and he's not going to go top you know he's not going to go overboard or whatever so I know what he's if he's asking for he needs it so I think the rifles that we already have we we traded in our old rifles so we got credit for each of those which was a nice thing because it kept that cost down fairly low to swa them out um adding the suppressors is something we did as part of that process um it's very useful when you obviously if you shoot a 223 rifle you'll know they are very very loud at the range we use hearing protection if an officer had to fire that without hearing protection your hearing is pretty much gone so most departments have gone to suppressors um and we were we followed suit because it just makes sense if you take that weapon inside we shoot outside with those uh I can't imagine how loud that would be so another reason we went to that we also shortened them so they're a little bit more user friendly and Tighter quarters things like that so the good news is we've already updated all of our rifles uh for a really good price in the last couple of years these would just match those so it would be the newest technology and we'd be good I don't think we'd have to replace rifles for many many years if we were to do this just going to ask expectancy with service and typically I mean we're asking kind of I guess q1 basically yet um if they weren't to be approved we would build them into the budget that typically that they're just built into the budget you know like when we replace the the rifles this last time around they're just built into the budget we didn't really know about this until basically after the budget was already approved so otherwise we would have likely just built it into this budget and allocated some CIP funds going to right it sounds like they last many years yes they do and if you assign them to officers they the the lifespan would last even longer because you just use your rifle at the shoot instead of having bringing out four or six rifles and having everyone use those so rounds per rifle actually goes down and they last longer um exactly so what I've have been doing for years is we just add two or three thousand to our CIP per year and that would work towards maintenance or if we had to replace one here or one there that's kind of how we did it in the past but and that works great if you have just a handful of employees as you tend to get bigger that that's much harder to do so as we continue to grow and add officers we would build into the budget the ability to buy them a new one then yes is that the plan that is the yes and budget wise that worked yeah we probably and ultimately what we'll do is depending on what council you know all wants to do is we could bring this back as a budget amendment but it would come out of the the fund balance basically from that Public Safety money that 176,000 we put into the fund and I know it was more of a discussion right at the end of last year I know as far as I think I remember even council member McGregor saying well Paul what do you want to spend this on I think now Paul's saying what you wants to spend you know I think I think maybe once you had time you know you guys had time to ponder and stuff and even some of these things you have even came up as far as you know you know were like Jasper said you know should been in the 24 budget or is there more um an analysis that needed to be done or further information I think some of that now is when we first started talking about the public safety money there was a lot of questions I think from some of the council members about what would you like to use this for and that's a hard question to answer until you start digging into what do we need this isn't about adding luxury items this is about what do we really need and I just the way I am I I had my staff going and you can't just say hey I need it well show me why you need it and so we had a lot of discussions about what is it that we need and why do we need it and how are we doing things is it working is it not working um you know we're really good at making things work when that's all we have and there is no other answer um so that's kind of how we arrived at this but going forward to budget for one of these rifles you know the rifle itself is about 1,400 um sights are another 500 another light is 250 so that's an really easy thing to budget in kind of like we've been doing where you put in2 or $3,000 into the CIP and then you know that if you add an officer then you just you have the money already budgeted towards that good with that yeah sounds good what's the soonest we could get him his rifles like what's the soonest we could it seems like you need this well we do I mean certainly what we're doing we've made it work so we have rifles we're not without that um it's just a lot of moving things around to get them where they need to be uh rather than assigning them the people so what we would do is probably similarly to the the cameras we'd bring this back I assume we'd have to bring this back for a resolution yeah I think we just bring it back as a package of amend the budget to include these things and then basically have a good good dollar amounts we should have more hard numbers on the quote right for the we get theot the rifles and then just have that for the council to approve at probably one of the next couple meetings or whatever would be my thought how long does it take to get the rifles are they like is it quick I don't know months weeks days kind of depends uh it can take a while it it probably take a couple of months because they build these to our specs so that um you know you can get a generic rifle but then they have to put the stock we use on it the sites we CH choose on it the right suppressor there's lots of different versions of all these things but we wanted to build it just like the ones that we have already but I think you're able to tell staff that's coming in a couple months that absolutely that'll be a win right everyone will have I think it's it's gotten better the turnaround time on these things has gotten a little bit better Co kind of set everything back but um everyone seems to be coming out of that with the exception of the vehicles um but so I I think we can turn that around very quick great and then lastly this is not really an Ask keep going bring it we got a couple more hours right all right so I'm almost starting to feel strange asking for all the do it all at once just rip thatand been a lot of talk about Firearms tonight one of the other options that has been brought up many times over the years is Red Dot sites we we use them on our rifles currently um and uh in the last I don't know few years that technology has advanced quite a bit to fit handguns um and so I've had several of our staff say that you know they they know a lot of people that are in departments that have utilized these um have gone to Red Dot site so it's really the same technology but on a handgun um they're fairly expensive but they really what it does in the long run is it brings the the liability down because it's a lot easier to put a dot on something and that's where the bullet goes versus relying on just regular sites which is what you're dealing with with a handgun uh little bit different animal handguns are for short distance type of situations which is the majority of what we would deal with but um this technology has gotten so much better in the last couple of years we carry Glock handguns um they're very very durable they're very very easy to train people on I was a Firearms instructor for 12 years and I can tell you it's my favorite gun if I have to train somebody on it because I can train anybody on a handgun on a Glock handgun uh the beauty of it is Glock has uh now made a new version that has a plate on the top slide which allows you to um install the Red Dot sites so it's not something in the past you'd have to have a gunsmith drill holes and hope it all lines up and just not a very efficient way to do it and I would never want to um use something that's not proven um to exact specs and so uh that technology is here and a lot of departments have transitioned over to these for those very reasons anything you can do to take some of the liability away from what your officers are dealing with um is is really really important obviously train a lot for accuracy and things like that but you always worry about you know you're responsible for every bullet that leaves that gun whether it's um you know if you hit the suspect but what's behind the suspect um things like that so this just helps enhance that ability for everybody um and a lot of our cops are really good shots but um let's be honest not everybody's at the same level not everyone ever will be at the same level because some people just inherently are are good with guns and some are not and so from a training standpoint this is in my opinion vitally important to getting everybody on as close to on the same page as you possibly can uh with that said I just want to say that everybody has to meet minimum standards and everybody does if they don't they don't carry a gun and they can't work for two obviously if you can't carry a gun so everyone's meeting those standards and we're pretty fortunate here I hear a lot of stories from other agencies where they you know especially the large ones where you have some people that it takes it takes them a lot more work to get to that same point and so I think that's a lot of how this technology came about uh with a rifle it makes absolute sense because you're talking about very long distances but even a handgun um in the stress of everything it's really nice to be able to put a dot on something and know that that's what you're going to get so we're still in the research process for this because unfortunately it's not just we want this gun with this site they make different versions the gun and different versions of the site so we're working with the Glock rep and the um the different Red Dot site reps to go out and do some demos and and see which one is best for law enforcement um some of them are more durable some of them are bigger than some are smaller things like that so we're still in that research phase of this process um but certainly when we get to the point where we kind of narrow down which one fits us and um which one would fit the profession the best um um then we would bring that back and and have a better idea of what we're looking at for cost the good news is again with Glock over the years in my time we've we've traded in old guns for new guns so that difference we usually get about 250 to $300 um trade allowance per gun so that cost wouldn't be too outrageous but at this point I don't have numbers because we're still in that research phase but I do think these are really important and and going forward I think it's something that uh would serve all of us um much better than what we're doing now and I think that's why so many agencies are going to them and that is really all I have okay so you're just looking more Council supportive of even going with that doing that research and bringing it back right yeah and I think obviously there's going to be a price ATT that I I at this point you know my estimate would be somewhere between 5 and $10,000 I don't know exactly depends what we get on trade and then which site the sites vary pretty dramatically in price so it's really hard to throw a number out there at this point but it's great technology and once we narrow down what we we would like I can bring that back and we can have another discussion any other questions for Paul all right next we have temporary Greenhouse yeah thank you uh mayor and members of the council so with the recent opening of the mcon grocery store we did receive an inquiry from a uh it's unitized vegetable farm um they would like to uh install a temporary Greenhouse in the parking lot of mun's grocery store they do have one that they do every year in Waconia um and they what they're looking to do is mimic that same footprint um here in Minnetrista what they do in miconia they have a it's it's a 60 foot long 20 foot 21t wide and 11t in height is the size that they'd be looking to install here uh ideally they' have it up and running May 1st and usually um they go in Waconia to sometime in the end of June they they list June 23rd as likely the end date um I think that kind of depends on how much they sell and those sorts of things um hours of operation they're looking at 9:00 a.m. to 700 p.m. um uh in terms of the hours that they'd be open to to do this um as stated in the Memoir this is the first time something like this has popped up here obviously this is our first grocery store um our code is not specific to um temporary structures like this or temporary tents um so we wanted to make sure we touched base with Council to see what direction you wanted us to go with this we um did reach out to a number of neighboring communities if you go to unitid you if you look at their website they've got dozens of them all over the the Metro mostly West Metro but they have a lot of these so we did contact some of the communities where they already operate and there is a very wide range of um ways that communities will prosper access these types of requests some do just an over-the-counter temporary structure just so we know who's there how long you're going to be there we've got contact information and then the most extreme situation that we did see was going as far as issuing an interm use permit where you do a land use application you do a public hearing notice um to you know everyone within if for an iup it' be uh well it'd be 500 ft notice to all you know properties you know where you'd hold a public hearing with the Planning Commission make a recommendation and then bring that to city council there'd be conditions that would be attached with that iup as well um and so those are the levels if you will are you know that we we saw in the Spectrum um some communities we we had you know the ones that we got this information from we said well have you had any issues and most said no we we don't we haven't we don't get much complaints but there were some um and i' I've personally been involved in in one uh in a previous Community where there were concerns uh complaints um and it did require some staff time to go out there and you know count the parking spots and garbage would be flying around and um you know signage was an issue and a and a concern and um some sometimes they try you know if something they they grow bigger than what they tell you they're they're going to and a lot of times there's um seasonal part-time employees who aren't as keen on picking up garbage and you know the beer flats that you put the flowers in will be blowing around those sorts of things so th those are the kind of things that you you hear sometimes with with complaints but like I said there's there's plenty of communities but won is one specifically that you said we've never had anybody complain or say anything about it so um I think it all depends um you know probably could work great and and if garbages flowing flying around all the time and it does any does does anyway right EX exactly so you you just never know exactly um how it would go but just again wanted to um touch base as to how you'd like us to proceed if you know certainly if we want to do something more on the iup end we it would take some work on our our end in terms of doing a city code text amendment to add something to our code to for that process um but otherwise if you know you're fine with it and what kind of a wait and see approach we can go ahead and let them do what they need to do um under what kind of the guidelines we have here and and go from there so again just wanted to touch base and make sure see what direction Council wanted us to go with this I don't think we need to make more work into do IEPs we don't I don't think we need to unless becomes an issue but you know I'm fine with you guys just knowing that they're going up then monitoring it for it becomes an issue how does that work with munes I mean are they on did they police board on this or they're completely on board they're um this vegetable farm Pro provides a majority of the produce for the grocery store oh um so they have a very very good close working relationship um and so a lot of these some of these vegetable farm or stands that they do uh in other Metro they'll have the flower Greenhouse portion but they also then have a vegetable stand outside with mcant Tunes they're not going to do that because their produce is in already in the store so they're just going to do the the flowers in this case but they're you know they're they're completely on board we've uh talked to the MC Tunes as well and they said no absolutely we we didn't they didn't even think they needed to ask us basically um but yeah they're they're completely on board with it and if we don't do a formal process what do we do if we have the problems that you mentioned that un would see well we yeah we then would need to uh amend or the city code to to come up with a process and or conditions if you will to you know based on concerns we're we're hearing and and those sorts of things but wouldn't mathun address it first wouldn't you think the one in McCone I go to it in this summer it's very nice it's very neat it's very well-run the people that work there are very polite it's definitely like a family business they Gorgeous Flowers I've never seen trash around it in six years I mean it's it's very well kept good I would think the same thing yeah you think yeah the only other thing and I and again it's we're so early in the opening of the grocery store to understand the parking demands I mean that's the other issue that can come up is um you're they're going to take up anywhere from 24 to 36 parking stalls do we do they plan on doing it like in the back then closer to like theart like back on the back side by the apartment be that front corner front corner yeah so that's the only other um issue that can come up um you know the good news is it's you know may through June it's there's no real big huge holiday you know Thanksgiving Christmas where that you have high demand parking then um and again we just don't know how full the other problem right now is you've got the construction of the apartment and they're using some of that you know which that'll go away you know eventually so um that's the only other thing that kind of sometimes comes up but again we just don't know yet how that's going to work Chief I think there mayor and councel I think there's also been a request by a company um that wants to sell fireworks during that couple of weeks prior to Fourth of July in the same parking lot obviously I think it would be after this would close and then this other thing would open up for a couple of weeks and we're just in the process of taking a look at that permit um we've never done one for for sale fireworks for sale type of permit we've done it for private use things like that so um I've reached out to the fire department and they're going to look check with other cities specifically W conia because this exact same thing occurs there um I don't personally see any huge issues with it but it's a very similar thing to this probably a little shorter term but we're just looking at that now so um just thought I'd let you know that that's coming as well which there again I mean I I didn't know they were going to do a tent I I'd heard about this but um similar I mean so I I didn't know they were doing a tent so again I guess to think about that that's the exact same thing they'd be doing you know a tent like that just to make sure too I guess if you're fine with that that which is completely fine just want to make sure we're going in that right direction so you guys okay with staff just basically issuing so you just issue a permit saying it's okay for this period of time and then yeah yeah I mean we we' exactly we just kind of a over the right now we don't have anything in our fee schedule so we just generically come up with some information in a form just so we can document it and then next go around with our fee schedule we'd adopt some you know add a line for temporary structure tent if you will um you know and just more of a formal process so and the fireworks piece would have uh like an inspection piece from the fire department as part of that process and so we we'd collect a feed to you know to cover that cost whatever yeah we do because there are just a handful of residents that pay uh companies to come out and do large firework uh exhibits at that time of year so this one's a little bit different but uh have a separate one do we I think so 99% sure okay well we very well might and we've just never done one for selling fireworks so if we already have it that's great I don't know yeah would they provide a bond in case they damage the parking lot or there was some kind of well parking lots me things right so if they damage it they going to deal with okay yeah the current fireworks permits do require uh some liability insurance on behalf of whoever is hosting this event or in this case the sales so I uh the fire department is going to research this because I'm sure there are some processes through the State Fire Marshall's office and otherwise that um wona and others that do this would be familiar with and then we'll probably adopt that type of inspection [Music] process and I can confirm we do have a separate line item for sales too did not learn something today all right um any coms no thank you I'm good with it all right we're good with you just issuing a permit and bringing it back for a few schedule next year sounds good all right anyone anything else any other discussion all right I can I get a motion to adjourn the work session so moved a second second motion passes 3 work session is adjourned