Welcome to the Mountain City Council meeting. It's Tuesday, July 22nd, uh 6 o'clock. Can we rise for the pledge of allegiance? >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, we have our agenda. We do want to uh take number six, which is Plaid Moose Marketing. They are not here. They're going to reschedule. And I'm going to change that to Oro Police update. So, I have that amendment. Do we have any other amendments? >> No. Okay. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda with that amendment? I have a follow question actually. Was there something for parks that we wanted to that we need to talk about or anything or not? >> About what? >> We initially we're going to have a workshop today where it's going to probably be moved to the 12th most likely. >> I think he's talking about the email that we got. >> Yeah. >> Oh. Uh if you want we can add it to the end. >> Add it to the end >> of this. Yeah. >> Of the agenda. Sure. >> I'd like to. I think >> Yeah. Sure. They wanted to make sure those events happened. What what email did we get regarding park? >> I think you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a couple things for events that parks approved a while ago and that we were going to approve for events in the park. One was for the library. Um, it's got a name. I can't remember the name of it. >> Why didn't everybody get that email? >> She she just asked us if it was going to be on the agenda tonight. >> So, she just copied the two of us >> and it was literally at like 3:00 or something. If if we didn't talk about it, then a couple of the pre-planned events that parks had approved that we we talked about at our meeting, they wouldn't be able to happen for permits. Um, so Chair Khan had wanted to ask if we could just look and make sure that those are approved and able to happen. >> Is that is that something that we can approve, Jesse, without some >> I think it's probably worth uh I think we can add it. I did forward it to the city attorney as well. Uh it was like Castano said it was a little late in the day, but um I think we can add it and then >> uh Scott can look at it for the next few minutes and >> grab the name of the event, but they were >> we can probably get through it in a way that >> No, I just >> gives us uh some contingencies or something. I mean I I did see it too. It looked like maybe we could try. >> Yeah, there was a couple events that parks had planned earlier in the year. Um >> I might just >> one for each week of August. >> I might shed some light on that just because I >> the months we're waiting for >> was staff staffly is on to the park commission. And so this was something that the park commission wanted to do. They wanted to um start doing some park commission sponsored events. So the goal the uh with that though was to get it approved hopefully a policy approved by August. So the city attorney and I worked on a um kind of an agreement and a policy that would go hand inand with any partners that the city partnered with just making sure everything was understood as far as responsibilities of both parties. that got that went to the park commission in this July. It did get reviewed and uh approved by the park commission to sent to go to the city council. Um but the intent then was to probably bring it to a workshop to further discuss it both documents just to make sure that it was vetted enough. The only problem with that, sorry this is taking a long time. The only problem with that is that they were hoping to get started in August and it does delay the document or approval of the document. So I think yes, it would have to go to Scott the attorney to to I guess I guess I don't know what your opinion on that is. >> Are we going to have enough time? I mean we don't have anything on it. So >> yeah, we don't have a lot of info on it. regarding the legalities and >> yeah, it's just a policy that guides the park commission like the administrative process that allows this park commission to work with outside partners and to make sure that both parties understand the responsibilities and including insurance requirements if needed and when the city can wave insurance requirements. Was that the one you were going to put on the consent agenda, but decided it would be better for the council to be able to look it over? >> Yeah, it was something I was the the park commission did recommend it to the city council, but because it probably needs further discussion um before approval. My recommendation was to then move it to the August 12th workshop meeting um because I just didn't feel like it was ready to go straight for approval. >> So that does delay things unfortunately for the program. So I guess >> the problem is if we don't have anything to review, there's nothing to talk about. So >> we're we're just approving the agenda right now. Why don't we just put a pin in it and talk about at the workshop? >> Yeah. >> I mean there's nothing we can do. It's we can't approve something that >> was there an event planned for August 1st. >> Well, there is two events that they wanted to do before that. But >> all right. >> We just didn't get them in in time. So, nothing we can do about it. >> That's true. >> And if I add what what we have what the document will be in August that work session is the policy that I draft that my office drafted reviewed by the commission with the with their suggested changes and then the agreement that I drafted. So, that's that's what we're talking about. But anyways, that's for that's for the work session. >> We're not gonna have no time to do that. >> No, because you need to you need to have it in front of you to look at >> view it. >> All right. So, back to the original. We're going to cancel number six. We're going to put police update there and that's it. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda with amendments? >> Uh, I can make I'd like to make a motion to approve the agenda with number six being amended. >> Okay. Got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. >> Those opposed. All right, that passes. >> All right, we got our consent agenda. Does someone want to go through those? I can do that really quick. One sec. Okay, let's see. All right, so consent agenda. Um, number four, items A through F. A, approve payment of claims. B, approve minutes from the July 8th workshop meeting and July 8th regular meeting. C, uh, resolution 25-63 amending resol resolution 25503. Um, do we have a do we have a typo in here? >> So, >> in the resolution, >> it is kind of confus Oh, in the resolution, >> it's supposed to be appointing Kevin, right? >> Oh, let's see. What is >> right the it's amending the resolution that >> that had Okay, got it. Okay, so the language in the resolution is right. I saw. Okay. Um amending resolution 2563. Resolution 2563. Amending resolution 25503. Um appointing acting manager for 2025. D. Action on resolution 2564 approving concert permit for private event at 1 1901 Shorewood Lane on August 9th from 1 to 5 pm and E pay request number three in the amount of $191,000 $191,56.65 65 cents to Whitmer Construction for project PW2512 and F approve change order one for 2025 street and utility improvements project PW-25-01. >> All right, got our consent agenda. Does anybody want to pull any of those to talk about it? >> All right, hearing none. Can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> Motion to approve. >> Got a motion. Can I get a second? Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Council member Heric, >> I. >> Council member Mcanini. >> Hi. >> Council member Pew. >> Hi. >> Council member Castellano. >> Hi. >> Mayor Holt. >> Hi. All right. All that passes. Thanks. Number five, we're going to comments and suggestions from anyone anyone present that their item is not on the agenda. We are going to have a water update meeting later and we're going to have uh public comment at that point. So if you have anything else to talk about, if you want to come up and give you three minutes. All right, not hearing anybody. We're going to go to number six, which is the orno. Please update. Welcome. >> Good evening, Mayor, City Council. Um over the past two weeks, uh tomorrow has been busy uh with just summertime calls and calls for service jumping up just because of the activity in the area. Again, as usual, I haven't seen much uptick in anything specific, but two points I wanted to bring out that I've witnessed on my shifts at night. And then, uh, just dealing with them in general is, uh, we get loud music complaints coming out. Um, it's understandable. Nice weather, want to be out by a bonfire, want to listen to music. Uh, just keep respectful. The neighbors are close to each other around here, so we get calls. Um, there's nothing they're doing wrong. they're just probably a little too loud when it's open. So, we've been addressing those off and on throughout the past few weeks. And then one thing that I've noticed working with my crew at night, at least two to three doors on businesses have been unsecured. Um, my guys are out and women are out walking businesses at night. You might not know that. You might get a card from us one time and see that we've been in your business to make sure nobody was in there. We secure it. Basically, we're finding that they're locking them. They're not making sure they're latched. So, we can get the business owners and community to understand that uh that's just an easy way in for the criminals. So, watch your doors, watch your businesses, and make sure you're securing those doors at night when you leave. Um but nothing else, we are out there. We are checking. >> Uh just a quick update, the so uh Spirit of Lakes went off pretty good from uh reports. There's a few incidents, just some juvenile issues. and some uh assaults from like parties and stuff. They weren't anything to be concerned about. They were just things that people got in disagreements and we dealt with them. So uh nothing more than that. Uh cso cadet application process is opened for our filling our vacant spot. Uh, and it will be closing July 28th at 4:30 p.m. And then other than that, we have our officer, Officer Beck. He is completing his first week of FTO and is doing pretty good. He'll start his second week tomorrow. Uh, any uh questions on the ebikes? I we I know there was a commission meeting on them. We are fully out there engaging with the people as much as we can. Uh, one of my officers just got done dealing with two of them and uh, you know, without ordinances in place for us, we basically were stopping them, checking them if if there's an infraction like this afternoon, there was one popping a wheelie, throttle gave out on the vehicle and he scraped him up pretty good. We cleaned him up, called his parents and, you know, let them know what was going on and why why they're making contact with their kids, you know, and I've had a lot of conversation with surrounding areas. They have ordinances in place that are pretty strict. Um, and basically they're chasing them out of their downtown areas and keeping them clear from foot traffic as much as they can. But we're finding also the kid this afternoon was from Maple Grove. Got on the trail, came down to visit his buddies here in uh in Orno. So, they are using the trails. They're getting out and they're coming down because their cities aren't either allowing it or it's just more fun to come down and hang out and do their things. So, uh, that's kind of where we're at with it at this time. We're doing our best. Um, most of them are are abiding by the laws and they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, but there's those few handfuls that are not doing the right thing and we're trying to educate them as best we can and keep up with them. >> Refresh my memory. >> You said uh about ordinances. So that would be each local community needs to do its own ordinance or is it a county or at what level >> do these ordinances need to be made? >> It would it would be nice to see the county come out with a a one that adapts to all of us and if they would do some work on it because you understand we can't do anything as law enforcement officers if we don't have something in place that gives us a directive to do something. I mean, if it's something unsafe, you know, we're going to make contact, but as long as al along the lines of law enforcement actions, as in confiscating bikes, writing citations, we have to have something that we can go by that says, "You did this wrong, you're getting cited for it." >> Yeah. >> Now, at the Festival of the Lakes, there was a group of um ebikes, which I thought was interesting. There were about 30 of them. So, are they organized or is that an informal? >> I think it's more informal. I think they're they're just kids hanging. They're mostly kids just hanging out, getting together. >> Uh, you know, back in our day, if we wanted to see a friend in a town over, we had to bike, pedal bike, you know, 10 miles to go see our friends. Now, they can jump on their bikes and be there, you know, 10, 15 minutes. It'd be interesting to know how Festival of the Lakes reached out to that group and maybe talking with that group and getting them to do some self >> uh guided behaviors. >> It was the same question that basically council member Pew asked. >> So, so just an update. So, you weren't there, but we had a uh police commission meeting uh council mayor Heric and I uh with the chief and then also the other few people in in the the different towns. Uh and basically at the end of the day, like you said, you guys don't have enough to really go after people. They come off the trail, Three Rivers Trail, right? Dakota. >> They come off of there. by the time they do something bad, they go back on there. Three Rivers basically said they're not enforcing it. Tough stuff, right? So, what we are requesting is to meet with Marge Beard, who's our Three Rivers uh rep, as well as uh our county commissioner, Eden. So, we're going to set up a meeting with the two of them plus the mayors of the police commission each each uh city that that you guys cover. So, we're going to try to get some some answers and some strategy. Uh it doesn't make sense if Mound does their own ordinance >> and then they cross over to Spring Park and then they're like, "Well, >> which town am I in?" Okay, well, they got to wear a helmet here, but they don't know here or, you know, blah blah blah. So to make it easier for orno police, we got to >> and none of those kids on Saturday had helmets. >> Not a one of them. >> Yeah. Well, >> the problem is is technology moves so quickly and our laws can't keep up with them. So we are always in a kind of a gap when we when we come to these things. >> Yeah. >> Uh you you guys are fully staffed. >> Yep. He just reached full >> fully staffish until we get our new guy on on his own, which could take a little while to get him going. But yeah, we will be fully staffed, but we still have that one position for anybody that's I can't remember what the the acronym is for, but it it allows people that are not law enforcement, if they want to make a career change, then we have grants that we can use. Uh, I think it goes year to year that we can send them to school and when they're done they sign they have a contract signed with us. They work for us. >> Yeah. >> And you know we can I think it's a plus one program is what it is. So that we can >> and that's where you just got your one of your recent hires from. >> That that was our cadet program. It's actually a a different >> kid that wants to go into law enforcement. We bring them in as a cso, community service officer, kind of do a hybrid um training of cso work with them and then they they kind of glom on to us and we kind of start training them to be law enforcement officers. So they they're a little bit ahead of the curve when they come out of school. >> All right. Well, I want to say thanks for all the help at the festival. >> Um it's good to, you know, have you guys around and helping out. Yep. Officer Schultz does a lot of hard work with that. >> Yeah, she does. >> That's her pride and joy. >> Um, how is the social worker going doing? >> She's doing >> she's still with you guys. >> Yep. She's And she's got a heavy case load, but she's doing good. >> Now, is there any cross uh work um partnership between you guys and the fire department? Because I'm looking at their report and they had a large number of EMS calls. Um, so are they ever calling her and referring people? >> We we do we do lean on them. Um, as much like most of it when the storms roll in, >> you will have you will see an uptick in calls for that because they are running to our wires down, our trees down, stuff like that. We can't really help out with other than put up cones and sometimes they have the more resources to handle that stuff. But if we are tied up and we can't get to a call, a serious enough call like a heart, stroke, something that requires somebody to get there, then we will ask to start them so that somebody with medical training can get there if we can't get there. Does that make sense? >> Any other questions? >> And you're going to be gone the next meeting? >> Yes. >> All right. So, unless there's any major change. >> Yep. If you need something, let me know and I'll make sure someone's here. >> If there's any big news, send someone else. If not, we'll see you in a month. >> Sounds good. >> Thanks. >> All right. Number seven, we got council introduction of concept plan for Darren Kyer for two lot division proposed pro uh proposed for property at 5212 Lynwood Boulevard. >> How are you? >> Good evening, mayor, members of the council, guests. I'm Sarah Smith. I'm the planner and I'm going to introduce uh Darren Kier uh who's going to be joining us to give a presentation to members of the council uh and those that are with us this evening on a proposed uh two lot subdivision of the property at 5212 Lynwood. Uh members may recall that this council introduction is required by a policy that was enacted a handful of years ago. And what it is is it's an opportunity for an interested party or a property owner to bring a concept to the council early on before the submittal of uh related land use and or subdivision type applications. As part of the process, we also do a mailing uh to property owners within 350 ft uh in advance of 10 days before tonight's meeting. So we may have some guests with us this evening. Uh we do not do technical review uh as part of a concept. This is really an opportunity to bring the idea to the council uh to ask questions. Members of the council may have questions but also to allow the the public to learn about a proposed concept or something that may be coming forward before the submittal of formal applications. And we've used this process now a handful of times. Um, I'll be happy to answer any questions. Otherwise, Mr. K Meyer is here. Uh, in your packet, we did provide uh a brief narrative that Darren provided a a brief concept using the existing survey showing a proposed division of a north south split creating a lake lot and a non-l lot as well as as some photographs that were provided uh by Mr. uh Kyer for tonight's activities. So, with that, I'll stand for questions. Uh, and I'll I'll be ready in case you have questions later. >> Uh, council, have any questions for Sarah? >> Not yet. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks. >> All right. Darren, you ready? >> Can you give us your name and address? >> Uh, my name is Darren Kier. I'm a 5212 Lynwood Boulevard. >> Um, she told me to come to the meeting. We didn't say anything about presentation. So, but we proposed this lot split. It just makes sense. It meets all the requirements. There's some questions about the driveway, which I believe the Do >> you want to point to anything? Use the yellow. >> Okay. >> You've never been >> We have that available. >> Can we a little bit? >> Uh, you know, and this lot's been split before with flag lots, really weird stuff. And it's been put back together. Um, and this just seems to make the most sense. It's a clean front back type of split with uh yeah, it's kind of been laid out there. Um and the drive, let me use this now. Right here. And the driveway uh I think runs here with the there's a house here that's kind of and there's so many easements and so many different things happening here that it'll it would really be nice to in the process of doing this lot split to clean it all up. the the legal description for this parcel is a page and a half long um with all kinds of stuff happening, but it doesn't really affect anyone other than um this one here. And there's a house right here, but they already use this this driveway. And there's a shared driveway agreement in place that uh you know, everybody uses it. The house 5212 is right here, which also uses this driveway. Um but it but it does own you know obviously we'll have to get some clarity with a with an updated survey and whatnot but uh when this was originally done you know it kind of shows where that line is and everything meets setbacks uh you know for the lots uh a non a non-lake lot and then a lake lot. It meets all the spec or the requirements. Um, so really the only thing in question is that driveway, which you know, obviously with some clarity from an uh uh an assessor or not an assessor, what do they call it to do the survey? A surveyor uh to come through and and mark everything. So there's some clarity to that. But uh you know, I've talked with most of the neighbors and and they you know, everybody knew this was going to happen. It's just waiting for it to happen. um because it's a you know prime piece of lakeshore that's been un not developed. Um and in in the past they they've had some they did get one approved where there was a there was a flag lot that ran right along this edge and then came down in here. So it it was crazy because this is a huge retaining wall that you can't you know so you wouldn't be able to provide access from there. The access has to come from here um just due to the there's like an 8ft retaining wall right here along the road. So, um, yeah, that was really >> Okay. Um, does council have any questions for Darren? >> I have a >> Yeah, go ahead. Sure. >> Um, are you considering any sort of, um, rain garden in this development for this site since you've got this driveway in your downs slope into the lake? >> Well, obviously wherever it would be needed. It's already it's low. I use a pointer. It's it's it's a little low right in here which would would get fill and the house would be you know probably 75 ft back uh eventually. Um and whatever requirements there would be for you know water runoff. Obviously we're going to be uh changing to the 30% ground cover at that point which would allow for enough uh saturation. So but if it was required there's plenty of room there to do really anything required. Uh, but at first I think it's just a matter of clearing up all the strange easements and all the weird stuff that's across this property for no apparent reason because there's there's another road uh there's a house right here and he's serviced by Apple Lane >> um >> where there is a rain garden >> and there's some Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He has one >> and uh and uh and there's a there's like an easement that cuts it, you know, so there's just a mess down there. But yeah, if it was needed, it's definitely there's plenty of room for it for sure. Any other questions? >> I mean like like this early. This is just the concept concept introduction. I don't have any I mean tell it would move further along but I think it looks pretty normal at this point. >> And are you suggesting once you split it they're still going to share a driveway? >> Yes, the driveway won't change. Uh, I'm guessing that at some point, uh, talking with the the neighbor, the one neighbor there, uh, you know, it needs to be redone anyway. So maybe, uh, they have it resurfaced and rebuilt. But, yeah, it's it's and I don't know. I The mayor had said he'd take a drive by. I think Michelle did, too, to to kind of take a look at it's plenty wide and it services three houses right now. Um, there's another house right on the road, but they have a driveway off of Lynwood, so they don't it's really just kind of in their backyard. Um, >> it's like almost as wide as my road. Like when you guys do resurface. >> Well, it is it is an abandoned road. I can't Maybe Sarah can remember, but I don't remember the name of the road, but it used to be a a Laurel. >> Laurel. >> So, do you guys share the cost in that? Like when it gets resurfaced or >> Well, yeah. I'm I'm new to it. I just purchased this like two, three months ago, so I'm waiting for my first winter. But the the agreement that's in place is that the three of us, you know, share costs and uh and and Bill, who uh owns the house there, he he was the one talking about redoing the road, but he's like, I know someone's going to build here, so we've just been waiting. Um and that's that was the conversation we had before I had purchased it. Um so, you know, it'll probably be resurfaced and rebuilt. Um if needed, but yeah, otherwise it's it's plenty wide and and goes all the way to give plenty of access. your proposed uh house on there, you'd have hard cover required. >> Yeah. And it really at this point we've we want to know that we can do the lot and then we're going to work on the house that's there. So it may be a year or longer before we build a house. >> But just I want to make sure that >> you know because that really changes what happens with that house depending on what happens with the lot, right? >> U but yeah. So, and it's I think it's almost like 3/4 of an acre now, maybe 79 or so. So, it's a huge lot. Yeah. >> And uh and it doesn't it looks very odd. You know, everybody thinks it's a separate lot already because it's just massive. But, >> uh just kind of make it formal and that makes that a buildable lot and then someday maybe. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> No. I mean, I would just say like the reason why we kind of have like this new not so new process is to help like quell people's frustrations later. So, if you think you know what you want to put there and like you said in the text it was like the variance or like the setbacks were all being met and everything. >> Yes. You know exceeded we'll be we'll be setbacks are 50 feet at the water and we probably would be 75 or so. Yeah. >> And it's not going to be >> you know the Taj Mahal. It's just going to be it's just the wife and I. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't know if uh what the order of events there is like if you when you figure out what you you know think you want to build there and then see if the lot dividing still makes sense or I don't know. Well, I would think that thes the next step we'd kind of put a spec, you know, here's a drawing of what would fit and meet the ground cover expectations >> and the setbacks and that way when I come back, I think Sarah's going to tell me um to get it approved, they'll at least be able to visualize, okay, so this is how this lays out. It's really just do you think it would be a viable option to split that lot with that access is really what we're questioning because everything else meets >> Yeah. requirements. >> All right. Thanks for coming. >> Thanks for having me. Do you want to say anything else sir or >> um >> uh I think what our the next step will be is that um as Darren mentioned there are a lot of easements in and around that area. And so I think next step is survey work likely in the form of an alta that the surveyor will depict and identify the easements by legal description. show them what they are, what they're for, who they benefit, so that we can determine the area, what those and where those setbacks were will be coming from. Um, and also who has rights to those easements as well. I think the the most important thing, at least for this north south configuration, is that the new Lakeshore lot does not have frontage on an improved road and so that has to be processed as a variance. Um, but in advance of that, we want to make sure that if it doesn't have public road access that it has access via another instrument, I via shared driveway easement, all of that. And that that's all going to come together and probably the next steps as we move forward. But I do agree the lot is is is fairly substantial in size. Um, your new lakeshore lot has to be 10,000 square feet, has to have 60 feet of frontage at the 929. The non-lakes shore lot um has has different requirements. These go back to the the 90 uh the 2006 changes to the DNR regulations for our shoreland, but and again where the where the front setback will will be measured from because it does not a street. Well, that'll be determined, but I would think it's probably going to be the edge of the road. I mean that would make sense to me but anyway we're going to start working on all that stuff and I agree with them legal descriptions about this long and half's foreign and half's abstract. So >> okay uh then the last step I don't know if there's anybody else here that wants to come up and talk about this. Anybody in the public? >> Yes. All right. Good luck. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for joining us. >> All right. Number eight, we got water treatment solution update presentation by Brian Simmons of Bolton Mink. Yeah, put your coat on, right? I'm just >> Yeah, >> uh, and just a quick thing. I don't know if he can hear me up there, but I hope you're recording. [Music] There it is. Thanks. Just want to make sure so people see this later. Good evening, mayor, members of the council, guests in the council chambers. I'm Brian Simmons, senior city engineer. Uh we're here to continue a discussion that has been ongoing uh well, frankly for a long time. Uh but the current status of this it started really in 2021 when we were required to send out the notices about manganesees and it's become so much more than that. And so tonight is a little bit about transparency, accountability, uh looking back on where we've been. I know from an outward perspective, somebody might think we don't have a treatment plant yet. What the heck have you guys all been doing and gals? Uh and also I have a lot to share tonight about what we have been doing. So uh a little bit of this is rehash both from the state of the water and from previous presentations. However, it's very important I think to set the stage. So the the purpose and the process uh the purpose is to provide the residents of mound with safe and affordable drinking water. Uh that started with the conversation about manganesees but it has gone beyond that because the solution to remove manganesees is to filter and when we construct a filtration water treatment plant we remove a lot more than just manganesees. Um, you know, we were roughly planning for I'll say and and that sort of describes a funny process where every year we would talk about the capital improvement plan and I would try to put in a water treatment plant and previous city manager would say push that off a few more years. We can't afford that and Noah would say, "Oh my gosh, we can't afford that." So we would we would push it down the road. But from my perspective as an engineer, a treatment plant was always in our future because of the iron and manganesees before the manganesees became, you know, beyond a nuisance. um the the pictures online, the bottles of water that Hoverston used to bring to the meetings, right, with the the brown stuff, you know, when people see us flush the hydrants, some people understand, some people get their laundry ruined. It's it's a real, you know, it's a spectrum these days, but there is stuff in our pipes and that comes from the water. Uh and we are adding things to the water to make it safe to drink. Most of that stuff, with the exception of the manganesees now, has always been a nuisance. Uh but it does make for cloudy water. It does get us a lot of negative feedback from residents that are like, why are my water bills this and we have cloudy water? Well, the reason is we do not have any filtration in place at the municipal level. So, we're talking about constructing a water treatment plant that does some filtration. We are leading with we need to remove the manganesees because the manganesees is the reason that we have all come together on this. The remade is also the reason that we have recommended residents of mount either do not drink the water or they look at if their water softener or their existing filters, you know, please please examine are you removing the manganesees? Is your water safe to drink at your tap, which is a is a frankly a terrible conversation to be having. Uh but we're really right on the line and and we've been put in this position by a number of other government agencies. Frankly, I don't have any problem throwing them under the bus at this microphone. the department, the Minnesota Department of Health is one of them. They're sort of a partner in this, but they're the ones that mandated us to send out those letters. Uh, and yet they're fairly silent when it comes to the question of when are we going to get more money. So, um, maybe that's enough on that for now. Just real quick before you scroll off of the the picture of the water tower, Jesse, uh we did a study that was commissioned in 21 after the, you know, the initial do not drink uh declaration and uh we looked at a couple of different options. We talked at that time about softening. I'm not interested necessarily in rehashing all of that unless you all would like to. However, we landed on for mound. The most economical and responsible solution was to conduct a single water treatment plant uh in Sorbbo Park near the Evergreen water tower. We call it Evergreen uh and to upgrade the trunk water manes between there and the Chateau water tower so that we could still distribute all of that clean treated water amongst the rest of the water distribution system. um our price tag might look a little bit bigger than other communities or if you've been out there talking to other communities, some of our neighbors, you know, that say, "Well, I just built a treatment plant and it cost only x million of dollars." Well, you know, some of those things have been in the works for a really long time. We are almost having to start from scratch in terms of where are we going to put the plant, you know, which pipes are going to carry it, how do we reconfigure our system to handle water completely differently. So I I sort of covered this, but the manganesees notifications resulted in the do not drink order to remove the manganesees. We need a water treatment plant. We need some sort of filtration. To date, Mound has not had a water treatment plant. I I I actually felt kind of silly writing that bullet point, but I it's it's become apparent to me and especially some of the feedback I've gotten from Jesse, uh that this is this is a thing that not everybody is aware of. You know, we have been adding the mandated chemicals to the water. When I say chemicals, I mean things like fluoride, chlorine, things that make it safe in the system and safe for us to consume. Uh but those are not technically water treatment. Uh so treating for the manganesees will remove the iron, bacteria and other contaminants. So after running water through a treatment plant, it will be manganesees mostly manganesees free, but it will also be free of these other things. Uh at this time, like I said, we are not pursuing softening. We did have a conversation in these chambers with previous council. Uh that price tag has been a little tough to swallow and based on the conversation that I assume is going to follow some of these slides that will also add credence to why we are not pursuing softening at this time. Letter rib Jesse just a little bit of information about manganesees uh and the things that a package filter plant will remove. Uh but the discoloration in the water, the brown and the black, that is oxidized iron and oxidized manganesees. Um we see it come out, we see it move around when we do flushing. Uh sometimes we find out about water mane brakes. Hopefully uh you know, we we know pretty quickly, right, Ryan? you know, but every once in a while, uh, the the indicator of a water main break is change in direction in water and then we get, you know, brown water, water that was sort of settled out or some of the sediment that was settled out, re uh, suspended into the water and then comes out in people's faucets. So, without us having done any work, sometimes those things get back into the water again. We find out later, well, the direction of the water flow changed because there was a water membrane. Uh removing these things will extend the life of things like water softeners, faucets, filters, all of the pertinances in your house. Uh it will also uh reduce the city's costs. You know, we spend a fair amount of time taking care of our own infrastructure because of this stuff that is in the water. Another thing I want to touch on is that at some point not having a treatment plant will start to affect property values and resale in mound. I'm not going to go beyond that to substantiate that other than to say I think that's a thing that we all agree on. >> Yes. >> Could you go back a bullet point and expound a little bit on like >> I mean long-term savings like what like less flushing or what's the >> Yeah. So the the engineering term for that would be O andM operations and maintenance. >> Okay. >> Uh right now we spend Ryan, how many days total do we spend flushing? We do that like >> three weeks. >> Yeah, three weeks. So consider we have a couple of crews out running around with city trucks flushing for three weeks. >> So capital improvement. It's not just savings there. It could be like labor and >> absolutely >> manpower as well. >> Yep. That operations and maintenance cost, you know, having filters and things in our buildings, that sort of stuff, the consumables. >> Okay. >> Uh hydrants that break more often, you know, valves that break more often because of the stuff that's in the water. When we filter that out, the life of those gets a lot longer. >> Okay. >> Personel personnel, too. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. Does that answer your question? Mhm. >> Excellent. Um I was just touching on the property values thing. I was saying I don't want to go any deeper into that than that bullet point right now unless you all have a lot of questions. I just think that that's something we sort of all agree on. Uh we have not done a study necessarily to substantiate that statement. But we know that it is out in the public out in the world that we have issues with the manganesees in the water. It also is very public that we're doing something about it. But part of the conversation here tonight is what are the next steps? When are we going to build the full solution? I've beat some of you over the head with this manganesees. I know Mr. Hoverston did it as well. Uh but manganesees is a health-based guidance. Unfortunately, manganesees or unfortunately or fortunately, manganesees is not quite on the same level as lead. It's not a poison. It's not a toxin. However, as with many things, uh we consume some of it to be healthy, but if you consume too much of it, it has negative health effects. And what in essence we're being told is that the amount that's in our water is within a range that the Department of Health and the EPA at the federal level believes it to be harmful over time. Um, no one is out here volunteering to do a manganese study. So, this health-based guidance is a, you know, they've taken their best guess and based on the concentrations in our water, this is what they think. unfortunately that this is what they think has carried over into us telling people maybe don't drink the water. >> I have spent a couple years looking for studies of any kind and I have never found one. Are you saying there are no studies >> that there are studies about manganism in terms of manganese as like a raw metal, you know? So if if you Google manganesees and and m like manganesees overdose, which is what manganism is is called, you'll see a lot of stuff about inhaling manganesees or or having like consumed large amounts of raw manganesees. A lot of that comes from uh you know the forging and smelting processes in the like the early 1900s you know that's when people would have been exposed to a lot more manganesees. So we know because of that that it can cause you know brain damage if you are getting a lot of it into your system the amounts that are in the water there h I'm I'm not aware of any study that's been done. >> I'm I'm speaking specifically to studies on adverse health effects. they claim the neurological system and I haven't found any studies and because they arbitrarily kind of chose you know the percentage that is bad for us it it's difficult uh to I guess have strong beliefs in that when we've been drinking it for in my case 36 years with no adverse effects. >> Yeah, it's it's it's unfortunate. Uh it would be nice if this was you know in one of those categories where it was hard and fast and we could say you know with definition also when I mentioned before that we have been sort of straddling this this strange place where we're telling people you maybe shouldn't drink the water at the very least test it from your faucet is because many residents of mound soften their water. So they've been removing it inadvertently for years alongside of consuming the water for years. So, you know, for you, I don't know how long you've had a water softener if you, you know, grew up with one, that that kind of stuff, but that process removes manganesees. So, there are some things that have been been done already to take it out. Um, also like I said, nobody's volunteering for a manganese study and and I don't see that changing anytime soon unless there is, you know, some new science to test for it in trace amounts in humans and, you know, they come out with some some better data on how bad it is for us at exact concentrations. >> You know, I guess until we can all talk to the state to turn off the fluoride spigot into our water, uh, manganese to me has little consequence. fluoride, you know, has known health problems >> and fluoride is is also mandated. >> It's I know it's mandated and so is chlorine. So, I I feel that another thing we can do in the public is reach out to the state of Minnesota and I know Florida just turned off their fluoride spigot. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm much more concerned about that and all the other toxins than manganesees. But because they've issued this health concern, we have to um address it. >> Yeah. And and it puts us in an awkward position, right? Megan has started this conversation, but the fact that we weren't treating the water at all is is always been sort of an undertone, right? We we didn't have a treatment plant. Um, I was just telling Jesse before the meeting started that, you know, sort of in my humble opinion, and I'm not an expert on this by any means, but if I look back at history, you know, about the time that some of the other cities around us started to consider water treatment plants or I look at many of the other treatment plants were first conceived around the Twin Cities, uh, it lines up roughly with the times around Mount where uh, tornado replacement of large amounts of sanitary sewer. uh large amounts of sanitary sewer becoming portions of the MWCC system which we now know as Met Council. So some of those infrastructure things that you know sins of the fathers and looking at what has happened in the past some of those might be reasons excuses why we haven't had a water treatment plant but the fact remains it's 2025 and we do not >> and we know that the water coming out of the ground has some stuff in it manganesees iron you know some other things so this plant will take them out including the manganesees >> Brian can you talk a little bit about just so the p the residents can hear this how one house can have no problems with their water and a blocker two or three doors down have issues. Is that pipes? Is that >> Yeah, there >> what is causing that? >> That's Thank you. Thank Thank you. Thank you. That's very nuanced, right? Um a lot of our water system for better or for worse has has sort of a a consistent flow direction. And so the the as we're taking showers and doing dishes and you know going about our daily lives, the amount of water that we're using is somewhat consistent. And so then the path and the flow of water in our pipes stays somewhat consistent. Where that flow has been consistent, these things that are particles, I'm going to use that word because I think it's pretty safe that we all understand manganesees, iron, all this stuff is in the water as particles. It's going to settle out, sit down in those pipes. When we change the direction of that flow, we change the volume of that flow. We open the hydrant at the end of the block to do flushing. We have water main break. Uh somebody has a party, right? Or they leave their outside hose on and water their lawn accidentally while they're on vacation for two weeks. All of those things impact which direction the water is flowing and then those things that have settled out resuspend into the water. So, uh, you know, if you were connected to a pipe, uh, a main I will, if you will, uh, before, you know, an intersection of maybe some smaller pipes or some larger pipes, you know, that directionality between you and your neighbors could be different. And there are other influences on that like, are you softening inside the home? Do you have a filter inside the home? You know, what what is the condition, age, and material of the piping on your property and into the foundation? You know, is your house newer? Does it likely have PVC or was your house stood up on an old foundation that maybe has some much older, you know, galvanized cast type materials that are going to have a lot more of those, I call them tuberculations, but these guys tell me that's too nerdy of a word. So, you know, the Swiss cheese stuff that's going to catch the particles uh and then they can float back out of it very easily. >> Does that does that answer your question? >> Yeah, I mostly wanted the residents to be able to hear that. Absolutely. We all get calls about that and it's a headscratcher, you know, we're like, we don't know. >> Yeah. I'm I'm And I'm sure along with that call, you get the, you know, my neighbors or the house three doors down is not having the same problem and and everyone's just looking for answers, >> right? They're they're looking for consistency and answers from us and and this is a case where there isn't a lot sometimes. >> Thank you. >> And thank you for kind of keeping this informal. I appreciate the engagement. Um, I think I covered most of that. Uh we always when we talk about this we try to make sure we're communicating. Yeah. Go ahead. >> Sorry. No, you're good. Thank you. Um back to Councilwoman Mcin's question. So the Minnesota Department of Health and I'm still new, right? >> Um they made this recommendation but based on what it was there's documentation that they provided. >> So the health-based guidance comes from the EPA. Okay. >> And the Minnesota Department of Health chooses to follow the EPA's guidance. >> Okay. So there is research that the EPA did then. It it's it's healthbased which mean you know I don't actually know if there's a paper out there or something but I do know that there is no study >> there is I do know there's no stud wondering what they base their opinion on or their recommendation on. >> I will speak to what I know is that the EPA has published those limits. >> Okay. >> And they have said anything above this concentration we feel is negative. Okay. They haven't said anything above this concentration is a primary contaminant. I I don't want to get off track in the engineering jargon, but primary contaminant is a capital P, capital C, a whole a whole column of things that includes arsenic and lead, you know, all the >> very bad things, whereas manganesees is just bad, >> right? Okay. >> Um, just real quick before you guys hit me with anymore, every time we talk about this, I like to make sure we remind everybody where you can get your water tested. is not a thing that we have the capability to do at the city, but there are lots of options close by. Uh, and some very, it's not super expensive and it's worthwhile. Jason, I think you mind sharing your Did you test before and after? You have you have them with you? >> Nice. Brought >> it with a ball tea. You hit it out of the park. >> Uh, yeah. It's a little Well, it's a three-page deal, but uh you just filled out $32. Send it. sent it to I think Bloomington did or no I think it was Detroit Lakes and then they the results came from Bloomington. Anyway, they gave me a letter in the email. I can't find what the the limits were. I I couldn't find it in my email but um but mine was like 01 which is super super low. Now this is when I only had my water softener. Since then I've added a reverse osmosis >> super Roro, right? >> Yeah. And I have not tested it since then, but I, you know, I felt already pretty good. Now, that doesn't, you know, I again, I think I'm fine, but what I will say is we still have tinted water, right? We fill out the bathtub >> and you're swimming in a yellow mess on the >> Yeah, there's still oxidized iron and oxidized manganesees in the >> Oh, yeah. Every >> all the time. >> Okay. >> Constantly. >> You know, I'm talking, you know, you fill it up a little bit, then it's okay. It's some some days it's like yellow yellow and sometimes it's you know very you just a little tinted sometimes a little tinted blue almost. It's really weird. >> That's so weird. I never have that problem and it was one of my house tonight. I'll turn I'll show you. >> Is that Yeah, it's that >> Thank you. >> No, you don't notice in the shower cuz it's just coming right. Yeah. >> You notice the bathtub >> and and I you know we we've seen some of that on social media. No, I've seen all the pictures. >> Righteously, very very angry. But it ends up being this this huge body of anecdotal evidence that >> there's stuff in the water. >> I'm telling you it is cuz it's in my house, >> right? Yeah. You you get it. You've seen it. >> Yeah. >> Uh just sort of a rehash of part of this is a is a like I said a little bit about where we've been. Transparency and accountability. we have not been sitting on our hands since, you know, February, March of 21. So, a lot of these things that we've done since 21, we ordered the water treatment study. We brought that back to council. Uh, we actually made our initial I I forget about some of this stuff until I dig into this. We made our initial IUP and PPL application in April in the middle of the water treatment study. We weren't even done, but we knew that the deadline was, you know, impending. And so we filled that out, shoved it out the door in a hurry to make sure that we got in that list because as I'm going to talk about in a second, ranking in that list is important and it's going to become more important for us. We start to talk about other funding mechanisms. So where we are right now in 25 uh we've started to build well finished the first phase of trunk water manes. Uh we have the second phase of trunk water manes ready to go. we were stuck in a little bit of a cultural resources rut and a wrestling over who's in charge of what based on federal money and we've knocked that loose. So hopefully the well construction will be happening as soon as it can be as well. And then the next step after that in terms of the phases, you know, we've kind of we put all those smaller Lego pieces together and then we start to arrive at some of the bigger Duplo blocks and that is the plant itself and that is where the bulk of the rest of the money sits. Uh so we will continue to pick away at those other phases that are part of the whole treatment solution until we decide how we're going to build the rest. >> So pause there for a second. >> Yeah, please. >> So if anybody drove down Shoreline in the last couple months, right? It was ripped up. That was you. That was us. >> Which which time? >> Well, that too. >> Too soon. Anyway, the one right in front of uh uh the old Tonka toys uh that was us uh tying what we're doing is we're tying water uh tower here, water tower here. We have pipes like this. They need to be like this. We're making them like that. Um so that's thing one. Uh the other thing is in case you missed what you just said, we already are going to do the second well or technically the third well and that that will be behind Sorbal Park in the woods. >> Um pretty deep in the woods up on the top. Um we're going to have a driveway going up and that's already approved. We we've already approved that that's happening. Um, hypothetically, if we don't go forward with anything after this, we can always tie in that to what do we call Evergreen um as our new well um or our second well. >> If for some reason you told me to stop now, >> right, >> the well, the trunk water manes, all the things that we've done to date still benefit the city even without a treatment plant, right? the stuff that we have done allows us to distribute the water, treat it or not, around the city more quickly. >> So, you know, we've essentially built a a water county highway here down 15 as well to connect the two towers that didn't exist before. >> Yeah. >> Uh and then the, you know, the additional well, we've got um I reminded Mayor Holt before this meeting that we actually have one well that's been turned off but not fully decommissioned up by three points because the aquifer that that well is pulling from has arsenic in it. Yeah. >> And so we went through these machinations in the early 2000s to, you know, can we mix that water? What do we do? You know, a similar process where the Department of Health said, "Holy cow, there's arsenic in there." >> Uh, and we turn that off and that's no longer in use. >> So that's on that island, right? >> Yes. >> Three points, I think. >> On three points, >> sorry. Three points. Uh, and we're going to cap that. That's part of >> We're going to completely decommission that, right? >> Yep. There's a building there and some stuff. >> Yeah. Uh >> so we're gonna this is this is more or less like a replacement for that, right? >> Because we need to have some redundancy and some resiliency in the system. >> Yeah. >> We don't want to be nipping and tucking things too close in terms of how much water can we pull if there is heaven forbid more than one fire, you know, or we get into a situation where the towers are falling, water levels are falling and we can't keep up. >> Yes, ma'am. So, what does that mean with that uh old water tower that's been decommissioned up on the island for >> the one we called the stand pipe, >> which would mean nothing to you to you all. Uh that is in the long-term plan to be decommissioned. >> Okay. So if if you remember from some of the other water presentations, we did gosh 12 years worth of work to improve the the water volume going out to the island both for you know pressure for the residents res the residences that are out there and for fighting fires. Uh that was its own pressure zone and part of that was because this dam pipe is about I forget it's like 16 feet too short compared to the other two water towers. So if we just had the pipes open between here and there, that one would be overflowing and emptying our system on a daily basis. >> And and it's it's older. It's not very big. Uh but so we are deferring some of these things that I will say are less important and taking that one down is less important. We are going to have to address that at some point in our long-term capital plan before it becomes blighted and a dangerous nuisance. >> And we will still have Chateau and Sorpo in addition. >> Chateau and Evergreen are are the water towers in use. Yes. >> And those will continue to stand use once we get the filtration. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> And those those serve us adequately now. >> Any questions about timeline schedule? I'm throwing some things out there in the future because I say pending because pending funding, pending some approvals. Uh just a brief overview of project financing. We started with a $36 million bill. Thanks to the time that has elapsed, >> inflation. >> 26. >> 20. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> We started with a much smaller number. >> Then it was 36. Now it's 42. >> Now we're at 42. >> Yes. >> We've gotten some money though. Yes. >> There's some there's something to celebrate here. Y >> uh in the last two years we got almost 11 million from the state and direct appropriations and a little under a million from the federal government, which some days I wish we could give back, but we're going to use it. Uh that still leaves us with the math be math and a 30 million gap. So that is where you know you all and Jesse and Mayor Holt you know have been begging and asking and advocating and contacting uh legislators you know everyone this is where we have been telling our story that we need help closing this funding gap. Uh just a little bit more. I I think I kind of talked about this already, but um one thing that we haven't talked a lot about in this room is that both sources require a match. Both the the 10.3 million and the little bit under a million from the federal government. However, they allow us to be kind of creative with the match. So there's there's some double dipping, but this becomes important when we start talking about um if we are going to tackle any of the rest our own, you know, then we get more credit for putting in mound dollars is is why I I bring that up. >> It doesn't it doesn't change how much they give us. It just becomes something of note. Um the phase methodology, I think we've decided that we're going to we're not going to use the word tunch anymore because we had to explain it to everybody every time we talked about it. I I mean I don't I don't mind tr phase seems to I don't have to explain it. >> Um so this is how we have things split out into phases and one of the things to note on there project 4 pumps and treatment equipment that is how we are targeting the federal funds so that they handcuff us the least. Um we are going to use that little under a million dollars to buy some specific things as part of the plant uh so that we can keep things moving a little more quickly. And then uh the next two things that you will see from us, you know, you've already given us permission to bid the trunk water manes, but we are waiting on some of that stuff. And then the wells and equipment for the well, that is the when I keep talking about cultural resources. We have been unable to secure the site from the state historic preservation office to clear it enough to drill holes for respectful, you know, well-located holes that don't interfere with any sorts of cultural resources things out there. So we know what's under the ground. so we can finish the well design. >> And just >> yeah, >> to step back, why did you just say you wish you could return some of the funding? >> Can you elaborate on that a little bit? >> So So uh the the federal government federal government used uh their ability to oversee some of the other things. So when they gave us that a little under a million dollars, they do that through, you know, specific departments. Like you hear us talk a lot about the PFA, the public facilities authority. That is the department at the state of Minnesota who oversees the dispersement of all this money. And we have gone through a number of machinations with them about word exact wording in the bill. you know, at at the first go when it was first passed in appropriations, there was a pretty big gap between what we understood, you know, our legislators to have intended with what they communicated directly to us and how the PFA was interpreting it. And so that's why we keep talking about what is the path to reimbursement because they want us to have as bid prices for some of these things before they'll start giving us the money they've already promised us. And that was something that was not included in the original appropriations bill, but it's how PFA works. Federal government did the same thing, but they said, "We want to control your whole cultural resources process." And then they pair that up with they don't have enough staff to do a review within the next 18 months. So, our project started to grind to a halt. And I think you heard me talk about that maybe a little bit up here. And we figured out a way to to guarantee them your monies are being used over here. Also, we have adequate oversight. You know, there were things that Bolton M was fully capable of doing that government agencies said we would like to do and it's our purview as a, you know, part of the funding mechanism of this project and we had to find a way to get ourselves out of that. >> So, because we accepted or we were fortunate enough to be granted the funding. Yeah. >> Is that going to put us in a disadvantage uh going forward? you know, are we gonna have to follow their guidelines forever or just for this first phase of >> There are some things that come along with it. Um, if anybody has been at the up up at the up here long enough to remember us talking about state aid versus non-state aid, when we use the state aid dollars that are given to us, they apply a different level of oversight. They review the plans. Uh, the design timeline gets a lot longer. It's a similar kind of a deal. we are forced to pay things like Davis Bacon wages which we do not normally always have to do in the state of Minnesota. So it adds a little bit of cost but ultimately the almost million dollars will be worth it. So I I shouldn't make a lot of jokes about how serious water treatment is, but when I say some days I wish I could give it back, it's because federal government moves us sometimes at a pretty slow speed and we're pretty agile compared to them. We we were kind of hoping to be done with the design and everything in the spring and it's putting a little hiccup in our step. >> Cramping my style, man. >> All of our styles. >> The other thing about the site here, so um if anybody's in that neighborhood, which I am, right around the corner. Uh so there's the water tower. That little blue dot there. Um that's where the the well is there uh to the left of it. Um, Sorbal Park is to the right there where the little playground thing is on the towards the top. You're going to come down this new road and then that's where the treatment plant will be, that's our property there. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the one that immediate left, that big square, that's uh the school districts, right? >> Uh, I believe I believe so. Yes. >> Yeah. >> Forest. >> So, just, you know, my kids used to play in those woods, go mountain biking, walk, take the dogs, you know, whatever, right? You're going to as you come down the street, you're going to you're going to see a little bit because remember all these trees, a lot of these are staying uh you know that big chunk there. Um so it's going to be kind of hidden. The kids can still slide on the hill, whatever. They can still go over to the West Tanka site there. Plenty plenty of room left over for anybody that's concerned about the woods. But uh remember that is our property to the right and that's where we decided to put this. I >> I don't want to correct you, mayor, but you you called that a road. That's more it's more of a driveway, >> right? It's it's No, but it's one car. We're not We're not striping it. We're not making it two cars wide. >> Probably not going to have curbon gutter. >> You know, distinction is minor, but if I lived on either side of that, I' i'd want to hear it's not a road. I'd want to hear it's a driveway. >> Yes, it's a driveway. >> And then it is going to incline a little bit. So, >> again, as you're sitting at the bottom and you're looking up, you might see just a, you know, piece of the of the treatment plant there, if I'm am I right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So you probably won't I mean if you go through it you'll see of course in the winter you'll see the whole thing through the trees but >> and in terms of clearing uh the the red boxes in the depiction of the plant are you know big deep underground tanks. >> So there will be some carnage down there in terms of trees we tear down you know but um >> we're trying to sight that sort of at the top of that null back there. We're going to get back in there a little ways. The idea would be that you know it's hidden a little bit. >> Okay. And then that dot on the right side, that little blue dot, that's the new well. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Okay. >> It has to be 50 feet from everything. You're >> right. >> So, there will be a new well, but the tower, we're going to use reuse >> the existing tower. >> Tower is in is in adequate shape and is adequate capacity. And again, like we just said, if hypothetically we just scratch this whole thing, you know, we're already doing the the well, right? So, we could always just tie in to the Well, we're going to tie it in anyway, but we could just tie it in to the the water tower and just leave it alone. So, >> if for some reason you told me to stop, we'd route the well over to that that pump building right there. >> Right. All right. Keep going. >> So, funding pursuits. Uh we we chased a lot of of different rumors, but we've made some very formal applications both to the Minnesota state for appropriations. I like appropriations a lot better than earmarks, but some people know them as that. Uh same goes for the federal appropriations. I think we've done that almost every year since 21. You know, we've we've invited to or we have invited ourselves to with multiple legislators both in the House and the Senate, >> trying to get them to come together on bills. you know, that's how we got the 10.3 we have now. Uh the IUP and the PPL, the intended use plan and the project priority list. That's that uh uh the ranking of how the state of Minnesota distributes other funds that are available for water treatment and clean water projects. Uh this touching on this takes us back a little bit to the manganesees is not a primary contaminant discussion because if it was lead, if it was arsenic, you know, we would be right at the top of the UPPL where we are now. I do have another slide that tracks our progress. You've seen that before. We've gone up in the rankings, uh which means that they are seeing our problem as more and more serious. However, we're not at a point where they will fully grant and fund the remainder of the $30 million gap. But we are high enough on the IUP and the PPL to qualify for state subsidized low interest loans. And then there are some potential potential special programs. Uh this kind of comes and goes. I've fielded a number of emails from almost all of you up there. Um you know, Jesse, Eric, Maggie sometimes, you know, hey, I heard about this funding program. Do we qualify for this? And so as a team, we have done a really good job of looking at all of the possible monies that are out there. Unfortunately, most of them we do not qualify for or don't line up with how we're attacking the problem. And there we go with 22, 23, 24. Uh we took a weird dip in 23. Also, a bunch more projects were submitted in 22 as us and other communities were all dinged for this manganesees reason. Uh but you can see the points have gone up here from 10 to 5 to 15 to 15 that the points is really the most important thing is that's the more points they give us shows how seriously they take manganesees as a problem. >> So is that 15 out of 100 or >> uh it it's it's not it's not like out of 100. It's just how many points do we score. So it it's relative compared to the other projects that are on the list. So, if you pull up the Excel spreadsheet or the PDF of all the projects on there, you'll see that like 24, we're at 135, which was actually a really good jump from 658 because you actually want to be higher on the on the the rank, the top part. Um, but then we went down to 188, which is actually like a like what what the hell? went down. A lot of it's like these PF uh PAS and you know all these other projects that are kind of stepping above us now. >> Forever chemicals are a little more trendy than manganesees, >> right? >> It's true. It's true. >> points which >> we didn't lose points but we did lose rank. >> Yeah. >> So technically we want to be one and we want to be >> I don't know how many what's the total points you can get. >> I you know I' I've seen projects in like the 30s and 40s, >> right? But those are also ones that were a lot smaller and im like >> state legislature was immediately fund go. >> Oh, >> like less than a million dollars. Not what we're asking for. They factor that in. >> Y >> any other questions about PFA, IUP, PPL. >> So, stop throwing acronyms at >> the other comment. Is is is it Jesse 3 million or four million right now that we >> we're eligible for? >> Yeah, three. We're eligible for three. Now, that's if well they fund it all, which they did fund some. Um, and then other people don't take it in front of us. So, so we might get might get something there. >> Well, but those other players are playing the same game that we are, right? We would like our entire solution funded, right? >> So, thanks for offering. I mean, >> since we've been eligible in 24 and 25, we have not taken them up on it. So we have enabled probably other projects to to be lowinterest loan funded >> right >> by not capturing that bucket. >> Yeah. >> So funding the remainder of the project. Uh and maybe this is a good place. These are the last three slides. Jesse >> uh we got a few more. >> Okay. Okay. >> Did you want to go through all the other >> Yeah. Let's let's pause right here and jump down to the appendix just so you guys we could take a little bit of a memory lane victory lap. >> That's the right >> and our intent here was to share some documentation on a whole bunch of the things that have been done uh like this letter >> the governor. This is a letter to the governor that we all signed. Uh is it last year? We sent it to the governor. We know he did get it. I did not get a meeting with him, but he did get this letter. So, we're trying to say how important it is. Andrew Myers, our our state rep, sent it. Is that to the governor, too? >> No, that's >> that's from Andrew. >> Yeah. Who does he send it to? >> Oh, this is just a support. >> Yeah. >> Letter of support that he agrees with our problem. >> This was in support of the community grant partnership or community partnership funding application to Kelly Morrison's office. >> Oh, okay. The point of all this is just to show the public what we've been doing. Um the senator put one in there >> and Johnson Stewart as a civil engineer, very strong proponent of infrastructure projects. Yeah, >> we appreciate her. >> She sent that to S to I guess Rep. Morrison. No, >> that's it. >> That was uh this was another one that went to Dean Phillips. This one this one did result in funding. >> So, this one you guys have heard my story on this before, but you know, we sent him this uh I think it was a Sunday or something and I was texting him and saying, you know, we really need help. And I think we went from 10 down to was it three or five or three? Then we went to zero. Then I started freaking out and texting him and then somehow it anyway we got back in at 10. Um so again this is a couple years ago but just again the point is you know we're not sitting on this thing. Another one. This is 20 25 January. This is to the governor from our state rep. >> And as frustrating as some of this is, this is how some of the pieces of our government work, right? These letters are documentation of, you know, conversations with and meetings with and connections with our, you know, legislators where they agreed with us that they would like to try and help us fund it. >> Keep you go keep going down. That's our old one of our uh presentations from 2023. That's the old bill. This is me testifying 2023. Representative Myers, our old city manager. I got another that's a Senate file. The other one I think was a House file. This is a Senate testimony. Again, this is 2023. You see me on the left. That's just a picture. Two of our council members showed up to support >> and Kelly Morrison. And then this is just again kind of some of the verbiage that we gave them or like kind of the one pager. You can kind of go keep going through that. This is just another handout that we gave them. They want handouts every time you come and testify of what your what your issue is. >> I feel like those those uh testifying moments are real. It's the very definition definition of explain it to me like I'm five. Like you have to start over every time. Well, you get >> with different committee members. >> Two two minutes, five minutes, whatever it was. It was very fast. >> Um, and they cut you off. I mean, it's get >> to make a good elevator pitch. >> This is just, you know, our water tab on this is, I think, our old website, but we, you know, we try to kind of keep our water tab updated as there's something to update on there. That's our letter to the residents back in 21, I think. >> But yeah, that's the initial magazification. It's just Minnesota Department of Health. If you want to learn more about maganesees, it's on there. Warm water treatment options. Again, all this you can get at Minnesota Department of Health. If you just do MDH and then maganesees, you'll find all this. That's if you want to click the you don't do it now, but you can click the link to watch it. >> 2025 update. We just did this in March. So, our goal or at least our our council's goal is every uh March to do a water treatment update, state of the water update. Uh again, partly why we're doing this is um and we'll get to in a second is because we're potentially at a standstill here. Again, Megan, you can kind of keep going through that again. More lobbying. So, this is actually this year, I think. >> Yep. Uh, we met with the senator on the right, the rep on the left. That's when we were down there testifying again for for this year. The other ones were 2023. >> That's when you handed out the mounds bars, right? >> Screenshotted another one of me holding the bottle of water. >> You look just as angry in that one, too. >> Yeah. It's hard when you're screenshotting. Uh, is that almost it? So that was those are two separate presentations given to the WCC shortly after um okay >> lobbying efforts were made just sort of I I think it's interesting sorry to jump in but I think it's interesting if you do go look through them a lot of the numbers are the same but some some of the timings the the time frames are different because that was two years ago but it demonstrates those numbers jumping up on the costs going forward. you know, we're sort of doubling down on all the efforts that was made prior to 2021, but uh you can go back and watch Brian's presentations each year. And I mean, I think if we come back for another state of the water next year, you know, the number keeps climbing, so >> all the cost go down >> for your information. >> Okay. Uh and then while you're getting us back to the top, uh we just pulled every newsletter since I've been mayor. Um I didn't go back before that. I know this has been a problem since 21, but uh we've made uh a cognizant effort to put some kind of uh water update in there. Sometimes it's a lot, sometimes it's a little, but just saying something about what are we doing. So, eight out of 10 newsletters uh in the last two years year uh two and a half years I guess. Uh we've we've mentioned water >> and just for clarity, those are mailed with the water bills. >> No, these are just everybody's residents. Okay, >> there's 4500 roughly houses. So, everybody gets this whether they want it or not and they are there is an update, right? Um, again, sometimes very very very high level. Hey, we're working on it. It's still, you know, our top priority. But my point is, you know, we're we are, you know, trying to trying to stay on top of this and I think people know it's still an issue. So, >> so that brings us to today. >> Yep. If I if I may, >> uh I I'm when I say this, it's going to sound like my idea. It's not. I'm simply the mouthpiece for all of the conversations we have been having behind closed doors that started as whispers turned into rumors become conversations. What does it look like if we are to fund the rest of this somehow by ourselves? if we are not going to get any money from external sources and it's starting to feel like based on what you all are all all are asking me uh you know we're four years into this it's time for a serious discussion about what is the impact to city of mount and and the residents if this funding gap isn't going to be closed for us now we're not committing ourselves to anything tonight there is no attached resolution this is simply for information this is simply to move us forward in terms of um how How long can we sit on our hands? And I think these next couple of slides answer some of those questions. Now, there are a lot more details to be hashed out. This is still very high level. Noah's here if you want to ask a bunch of detailed financial questions. Uh but what does it look like to fund the remainder of the project? >> So, one one extra. >> Yes, please. >> So, again, I when we were doing the the newsletter, I wanted to put this date July 22nd as an opportunity for people to come out or to watch us later. and the the the word on the street, austerity, right? Federal level, right? Uh state two years without a bonding bill. >> Now, last year they fixed our first amount of, you know, with the verbiage. >> Yeah. But it took us a while. >> But it took us a year to fix, you know, figure that out. Um so to actually use our money that we would the 10 million. Um what I'm hearing just as you know a mayor dealing with uh politicians is it's not great. There's not we're not just handing money out left and right. Um I think we're pretty fortunate that we got the 10. Pretty fortunate we got the one. We're in it for another 15 million on the federal side. Now remember when you submit for 15 that doesn't mean you're going to get all 15. A lot of times they'll whittle it down. I think we submitted for four and got the almost one. So what I wanted to do and then of course I I brought it to our commun or our finance committee as well. Is there a way that we can do like a plan B? What you know is we can't keep sitting here waiting for mom and dad at the government to give us money. Maybe we can. And if that's the overall feeling of the council and the public, then we keep doing it. We keep waiting. Do your own thing at home, whatever. But I think it's at least time to have a conversation of what would it look like if we did this on our own. It's not going to look great, per se, but it's time to at least have a a dull conversation about it. So anyway, go ahead. >> That that Thank you. That's all great. It's perfect. Uh so we currently have about 30 million in the wind, right? We're asking for more money, but in order to complete the water treatment solution, that's that's what the investment we're looking for. So, the PFA lowinterest loans that we are eligible for, they're between two and 3% interest, which is pretty low still. It's a 20-year term. Uh the PFA loan advisor highly recommends an updated utility rate study. We're going to talk about that again in just a second. Uh but probably one of the more important things because there has been a lot of time spent at this podium and in this room talking about water rates, but one of the ways to pay for this could be water rates. There's a number of ways to, you know, dice this tomato and spread it out among mound residents, but for now, we're going to keep it simple. We're going to go straight to what is the impact on an average monthly residential utility bill. partially because this is how we first addressed the total dollar amount at the time and whatever it was 26 million in the original water treatment study. Uh but if the current average is $17 a month and that is us breaking it into monthly even though I know you all are build quarterly uh the projected increase is between 44 and $47 a month. So that is if we want to pay for the rest using just water rates. It's it's a big number, but we need to put it out there for discussion to talk about. >> And that's super high level as of right now. >> Yes. >> Now, that's your average water. 14,000 gallons. >> Absolutely. >> 80, sorry, 78% of us are on the average. 14,000. I looked at mine. My daughter likes to take a lot of baths and my son a lot of showers. 21,000 gallons is what I use in my house. That's average for the three-year average. >> Okay. >> So, I am above average. Now I'm paying more, right? Because it's tiered out and the and that's how it works. But again, I want to stress this is super high level. We haven't done a study. We haven't done a rate study on exactly what this would be. The other thing too is this is the water portion. This isn't the sewer that you know. So I know your total water bill, you times that by three is more than that. This is the water portion alone. >> And the other two bullet points there, the debt service and the operations and maintenance. just speaking to what what exactly are we funding with increases to the water rates and when we say debt service um I I I'm probably not authorized to go too far down this path but PFA does give us some options to wrap in you know existing water debt you know you I'm sure you've heard a lot from Noah when we have our annual conversations about the budget that we have had some water debt that's been falling off from funding previous projects but they will sometimes allow us to wrap some of that existing funding in so that we only have one loan payment instead of still tracking, you know, this loan payment plus the waterfall debt that we had previously incurred. Again, very high level. >> Yeah, >> no real details on that other than it is an option. And then when we talk about operations and maintenance, uh there are some things that are going to go down like flushing, but also the cost to run a plant is something that we are we're kind of scratching the surface on. We we do some things now that are plantlike. You know, we visit these pump houses and we swap out chemicals. We have injection systems. Uh but running a plant takes a little bit more than that. Uh we will have to have Ryan, you're already licensed, right? >> Yeah. So So Ryan is already the appropriate level uh class of operator to run the plant that we have, but that does invite us to a sort of a different level of um staff needs. There has to be redundancy. >> Yeah. >> Any questions about that? Other than shell shock, >> are the estimates based on the two or 3% rate? >> No, >> that's the that's the range between the three. >> Okay. >> Well, the monthly estimate that you provided though, is it based on a 2% or 3% rate? >> That's why there's a range. >> Yeah, that's the range. >> There's not a lot. >> So, you're doing four to 47. Okay. Just want to make sure >> at the 20 years, but that's approximately what the average utility bill >> and it and it's 2 to 2.6 Six is the actual numbers right now, but we're saying three because by the time we if we did this, it might be three anyway. >> We've been quoted as three. We expect it. Well, we hope it'll be lower, but >> always, >> but we're we're planning for, you know, again, with the full transparency, right? >> These are the things that we could expect. I'm just waiting there to see if anybody else has questions, concerns, things that you would like us to talk about right now. >> Um, I guess I mean maybe a question, but like you said, you know, like a number of ways to dice the tomato and you a utility paying it through your utility rates is one way to do it. Um, and then I understand that to qualify for the PFA loan, you need to have a utility rate study so we can show them how we're going to pay back the loan. So that all kind of rolls into the price of the loan. I get that. But what what are some other cities like um >> I don't know if you want to call it like best practices or something, but other I can't imagine other common ways to to pay that back other than through the utility or you want me to touch on those? >> I I mean I So I mean we could >> that would suit us. >> We we could we could levy for it, right? We can put we try to put it on property taxes like all of all of the ways that costs carry back to the residents you know that are divvied up differently. You know the the water rates are mostly dependent upon water use. >> So for the purposes of this conversation today that makes a ton of sense. >> So I guess I don't need to know the other that this is the most common. >> Obviously >> it is. >> Okay. No, before before you go too far, you said can put be put on the levy or the property tax. Are you talking about just the study? >> Uh I'm I'm talking about there are ways to pay for the plant that way >> like divide up the >> this this Yeah, the study >> status of the levy as well >> and and maybe >> you're super high level on that. >> Super high level. This is this is where you ask me any more questions. I'm going to go Ellers >> Ellers. You know that's we're going to bring them in because that's that's the part where I defer to the other experts. But the point is that there are um within those different mechanisms, the the equity and I'll just say the ways that you dice the tomato, right? And you divvy that back to the users and to the residents >> shows up differently. And so today we're talking about this is how much water you use. >> This is what your rate is. >> If you want to go down those other paths, you need a rate study. I guess the only reason I ask is like I I realize like you know 2% is a really low interest rate but if we save money with a smaller loan and saving interest residents will save money not paying that back. So I mean it's just kind of interesting how that could all >> the those are those are all yeah it's multivariate calculus right and and those are all good considerations. I have a question. Um, when we do this utility rate study, >> do they look at the payment of our bills? Because, you know, we have notoriously a lot of delinquent water bills. So, even if we're adding it to the water utility rate, given the delinquency rates we have in mound, would that really look favorably upon us? get those every year though, right? Put them on the property tax. >> Look at whether or not they're paid at all. >> Might get paid a year late, but I think we get paid. >> Yeah. I mean, we we assess, >> right? True. >> So, we ultimately do collect that through taxes. So, that's just revenue for the utility study. >> It's about 5% about four to 5% that ends up being assessed for the year for total utilities. So, from the first report you see in September to the final one, it drops down dramatically. So, >> so the uncaptured cost there is your time, right? >> Your time. We we because we have to file those with the county to to recapture them >> essentially. And plus, >> we're about 100% collection of that eventually. >> Mhm. >> How we wouldn't collect it would be if it's a forfeited property, >> but that's extraordinarily rare. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Does that does that make sense? >> Yeah, makes sense. I just >> So, Jesse, maybe you want to bump to the next slide. I'd like to just make a comment. Um, you know, while I think all the residents really appreciate this initial conversation regarding how we can fund this going forward, I mean, this is $30 million and I feel like this is not enough information for anybody to make an informed decision. I know it's high level, but I mean going forward, you know, could we break this out into some numbers that people actually residents would understand so they can >> That's what a utility rate study would do. >> Yep. >> Oh, that's what that'll tell us. >> We can get very granular >> in the end here. He'll ask for next steps. That's one of the next steps if we want to go that route. >> Okay. You mean if we want to go the route to take care of it ourselves? Well, yes. That doesn't mean we got to decide that tonight. Um, I'm just saying eventually, unless you think we're going to get all the money straight up, right, we're probably going to need to go to the PFA to get money anyway. And you have to do a rate study to get money from them. It is reimburseable through the loan. >> So either way, we kind of are probably going to have to do a rate study. Even if we get 90% funded, if we got to get that extra 10, we would and we did a loan through them, we would have to do a rate study. >> Well, maybe I don't understand what a rate study is. Can you explain what does that tell us? >> So, so the the purpose of of having a rate study would be to bring uh Ellers back. we should go out for RFPs, but we've been working with Ellers >> uh and and they will look at um how it needs to be structured, what the options are for how it could be structured, you know, so the detail that you're asking for would be in a rate study. We we could have generated a bunch of that stuff today, >> but none of us working on this in the background wanted to show you anything that would then subsequently change because I don't want that coming back on me when I'm wrong. That's what a rate study would answer for us. So the recommended next steps, I had Jesse skip past it, but we've talked a bunch about continuing with the existing phased projects, how the things that we are currently designed and under construction are worthwhile whether we build the plant or not. We we are trying to get to the date where we can collect all of those $12 million in funds. There is a ticking clock on some of that, but construction only has to be started by July of 27. I just I'm not worried about that, but I need to start saying that date now so that if I'm back here in June of 27 asking you for permission on something, you know, you guys aren't aren't beating me over the head with where were you with this two years ago, Brian, because we we we're watching those dates. You know, Jesse is Noah is we're making sure that we're not going to lose that funding over a procedural gaff, but we've been in a little bit of a holding pattern in how are we going to close the funding gap, right? So, we're going to keep moving forward to spend the dollars we've already gotten. So, we'll keep asking for money. We'll keep submitting to the UPPPL. Uh, but we're also recommending that we should engage, you know, a financial consultant to do the rate study and to do, you know, and I think how long ago was the last rate study? >> So, we did complete the last one in June of 18 and that's where we kind of developed the plan to get ourselves out of the hole. So we we'd be adding, as you said, $30 million in debt into one fund. That fund currently is still negative cash and it's not cash flowing, it's debt. So our lender is going to want to know how we're going to repay the the funds. And that's where that would come in. There'd also be a lot of brainstorming, as Brian said, how to lessen the impact as best we can. >> And will that affect our current double A? >> It'll have no effect. We still have our long-term financial management plan in place. Okay. >> We still have a really, really solid fund balance in our general fund, which is a big factor, especially as we move forward with bonding for the streets. That's going to come into play 26, 27, 28, as Brian and Matt and Ryan step up that process. >> Okay. So just >> so on this timeline of you know if we decide to go on and do the the rate study, what what does the timeline look like when we actually start building this new facility and have it up and operating? >> Because I think that that's what five years out maybe. >> No, no, no. >> We're we're three at least. >> Three. >> Mhm. If if we first of all, if we say yes, we want to do a rate study, the five of us, you know, tonight or >> Yeah. >> that's not they still got to come back at the next meeting and say, well, this is what a rate study will look like. >> Sure. >> You know, the the RFP would go out to whoever. >> Yeah. >> Um and then we go out there and then by November 1st, the goal is that it's is done by that. Now, we're trying to get we we submitted for 7.5 for the community project and 15 for the congressionally directed spending if you can't those aren't on top of each other. So, the most we're going to get is 15, right? So, it's like we we we applied for two, but really it's 15. They're going to come together >> and then again, if we even if we got all 15, we'd be like blessed, right? We'd be amazing. But if it's private, you know, hopefully it happens. But if they whittle that down or they don't do it or in the last what for sure last year, if not the last couple years, they just do a continuing resolution. They don't even pass the budget >> and uh you know, Congress has to pass it by September 30th. >> Sure. >> We'll see if they do. >> Question was just you know, we go to the public and we say this >> we need to act now. Yep. It sounds like we're acting now, but now isn't when it's going to finally happen. Like when are they going to not have to buy water? You know, that's what people want to hear. >> That's going to be a >> So that's what he said. Three years, right? >> You said three years before you flush the old system, get hook it all up, we're good to go. >> I I think it's three years before we're drinking water out of the plant. We're at least. >> Yeah. >> I think, you know, it's just to keep people knowing >> what the time frame is. I mean, we've done a lot of progress. We've started this. We've, you know, but yes, even if we just say tonight, let's just get this done and we, you know, >> it's still three years. >> It's still three years. Yes. And that's just it takes time to build stuff. >> Then it could be long. >> If we don't, then it's another, you know, then I mean, originally it was 26, then it was 36, then it was >> uh 42. >> 42, whatever. >> Yeah. >> Um, inflation, you know, >> time is money. Long before that it was like 16, you know, it just keeps going. >> Yeah. Um, is that your last slide? >> This is my last slide. Yes. >> Okay, let's pause there. Um, I guess does council want to talk about it quickly before we let the public talk or we've made We're not making a decision right now, but do you want to let the public talk first? >> Sure. >> So, anybody want to say anything? >> Yeah, I don't have anything top of mind from here. >> Okay, we'll do that and then we'll bring you back up here. >> I'll I'll vacate. >> Yeah, stay here. Stay in the house. >> All right. Uh if you want to come up uh hold on I'm going to open our public comment section. Please give us your name and address. >> Hello my name is Johan Shumaden. I reside at 639 in M 639 Beachwood Road. Sorry M. >> So I want to say thank you to the city um the council the mayor for the work you've been doing on the water because that's that's a big problem >> and I appreciate it to share. Also my water is also red or black depends on the day. >> He's my neighbor. Um just some ideas that might be kicking open doors. So please bear with me. Um I was thinking uh what about sharing the cost with neighboring cities? I mean like smaller cities as spring park they have the same problem. I would be surprised they don't have any manganesees problem. >> Um maybe that they would be willing to piggyback with uh the city of M to offer a common a common solution. Therefore you know they have found we have found we pull the funds together. Yes, the plan would be bigger, be maybe more expensive, but the more the marrier. That could be one option. >> I'm thinking also Minatrista, which even though ministry is big, but not maybe not the whole miniaturista, the one that borders mound like Sanders Lake for instance, that could be an option. Uh I see on the slide, and that's cool option to switch monthly. Just FYI, my house, we had a 30-year uh mortgage on a house uh paid monthly. We decided to pay bi-weekly and in 22 years we're done paying. So, I just have one year to go and we're done paying. So, I think that would be a great option because the more we can reimburse, the quicker we can reimburse, you know, that the quicker we can reimburse, the the faster the the lower the cost. Um, another another thing I was thinking, um, is as a resident it'd be a hard pill to swallow, um, to say I have to pay for more water just for the manganesees where the treatment at my place is already costly. I have to pay for water softener. I know because mine broke recently, so I have to pay for it. I have to pay for salt, all the salt, and that's a pain in the ear. I understand the option was taken off the table to not add water softening. However, if water softening were added to the cost, I think it would be um more palatable for people to say, "Yes, it's more expensive, but you don't have to haul salt anymore. You don't have to buy a water softener. You don't have to buy reverse osmosis system. So, sorry you have to pull your your tongue, Jason." Um, but that would be something that people would be able to relate to and they feel, oh yeah, that's a win. Even though it's more costly, but that's a win and that will extend the life of my appliances even though I don't have to have a water softener for it. So that's it. Those were my my points. >> Okay. Just thanks. >> Yeah. And you can sit sit down if you want. Uh, >> thank you. >> Just a quick >> comment on on that. The the softening I mean it was dramatically higher. The other thing is the reason why we didn't want to do that is you're softening everything. In other words, your lawn, right? Every time you wash your car, you know, you're softening your maybe a bad not a bad thing to soften your car, I guess, but um but it was it was dramatically higher. I can't remember the exact numbers, but it was just not feasible. Um, plus I mean a lot of people do I mean most people in Mountain a good chunk of them I'd say have hard water so they're gonna soften their water as it is. Um, and then the joining cities we did actually look at that. I know Jesse actually talks to Jasper and Matrista constantly. Um, it's just not something that we did. I don't know if you want to expound on that before I got here. >> Yeah, that's one of the options that was considered in the study. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, that is one of the options that was considered in in the study. >> And we've talked about similar things before like Spring Park at one point asked if they could buy water from us, right? >> But they do have a treatment plant. Same with Minatrista, but neither of those are sized to include the kind of water that Mount consumes. >> Okay. >> So, it would have to be essentially a new plant there, >> right? >> You know, for them to serve them and us in in general terms, them and us. >> Okay. That makes sense. >> Yep. Thanks. All right. Anybody else want to come up? >> All right. Can you give us your name and address? >> Hi, I'm Amy Fararm at 4638 Manchester. Um, and I apologize in advance um, if this if you've already discussed this ad nauseium amongst yourselves, but I feel like I need a little bit of clarification in terms of what the state and federal government told you is the reason that they won't fund this. Like like I'm not blaming you at all. It seems like you've done a tremendous amount of work toward this and you're very frustrated. But when I talk about this with other residents, that's the main question that everybody has is, you know, what is the holdup? What is taking so long? Why won't they fund this? Is it is it because the funds don't exist or because, you know, there are so many other cities looking for funding or a combination of all of the above? So, back when I was saying that there's like a PDF or like a Excel spreadsheet of all the other cities that have needs, right? And so, you go when what happens is you go down to the state and on the Senate side and the House side, right? So, that's those pictures of us test testifying, right? So, you go there and then you get, you know, two to five minutes to make your case. And it's kind of ironic because I'm saying, "Hey, I need $26 million." You know, the first time I went down there, right? And you get you get two to five minutes to ask for 26 million and then the second I get off the stage and and I talked to the people, you know, that run the the state behind the scenes, right? They're like, "Oh, we might be able to get you 10 or, you know, 10.3 is the limit we're going to get." I was like, "Well, why did I just even say 26 million? It doesn't make any sense." But they have to justify, okay, well, if M's going to get 10, well then what about Sering Park or what about Excelsier? What about So our rep, you know, they have to do, you know, prioritize these things as well as the senator, she has more cities. Um, so that's just our two people that we we go to. Now, I'm not throwing them under the bus because they're fighting for us and they actually did get us the 10, right? um on the federal side they got us the one and again we're fighting for it but at the end of the day there's only so much money to go around and there was what 17 people I think one of the times I went down there so 17 cities got about you know five minutes to make their case for all this money and you add it all up it's just it's crazy we we just cannot as taxpayers in general pay for all these things it's just now again this is where I get a little frustrated because there's 17 billion dollars at the state of Minnesota a couple years ago. That's not there anymore, right? Pretty frustrated personally because I only needed 30. It solves all our problems for 30 and somehow they spent 17 million of a of a of a surplus or 17 billion, sorry, with a B. 30 million is not not a lot on 17 billion. So frustrating, but that again, yes, through the newsletters, uh, email your your congressperson, email your senator, email your rep, your governor, email us, call call. I mean, some people do, some people don't. You know, I talked to them. I go, "Well, how many people reached out?" I got 10 people. You know, if we all care, reach out and don't and don't stop. I think it would be helpful if people knew like I don't know if you can even figure this out but like how much money is it even available to give out to cities um how many cities have asked for x amount of money >> we have the list it's on there >> what um you know and the other question I have is like in comparison to other surrounding cities that have water treatment plants >> um like how do we compare like like how did they get the funds and how fast did they get them and when did they ask for them? >> I I'll say that in a second when you're done. >> I'm done. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, thank you for coming up. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Um, >> one thing, mayor. Yeah, >> it might help the residents to understand how many cities are actually looking for money once this manganese became an issue. I know you're talking 17, but there's a lot more cities. >> That was 17 just projects. >> Projects. >> There's 60ome. I think that I don't know if this is the first year or the second year. There's 60some cities. I I got to think there's a lot more now. The one thing though with that though is not some of them have treatment plants and they're just getting overloaded. We don't have a treatment plant. We never have. So yes, we do the fluoride fluoride and chlorine mandated by the state uh drops per billion or whatever it is. >> Um but we've never had an actual treatment plant. So yes, other people have the same problem. Uh Google Maganesees Minnesota, you'll find some of some of the other ones, but uh we jumped on the on the we need money fast train and we went down there and and testified, you know, right away. Uh I I think if we wouldn't have done that, I don't think we would have got that first 10. Um and again, I don't know. It might be dried up down there. I don't know. I mean, we're fighting. I I talk to him all the time, our senator and our our rep. So, um, the other thing too is remember the governor sets the budget of what can be spent, right? So, it's up to the governor as the executive of of that office to say, "Hey, we're going to make a priority of this and this." That's why we sent a letter to the governor and had other uh politicians do that for us as well. um when it finally came down to it um between the governor and the the house and the senate they decided we're not going to do uh a bonding bill this year. Last year they didn't as well. So no money for us, right? That's that's how we're going to get it is through the bonding bill. The year before that we did get it through the cash bonding bill, but then the verbiage wasn't right. So we had to wait a whole year to fix the verbiage. >> Our neighbors and >> here we are. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, >> our neighboring cities too were, you know, kind of in the same boat as we are right now. It's like they're moving forward on their projects, but they weren't, you know, 100% funded. >> So on that, Minitrista um last month they just approved 20 million dollar treatment plant um with some of the pipes and whatever on top of that water man and stuff. I think it was what what 26 million roughly >> roughly. They're so they're still waiting on their bid opening which is going to be next month but they but yes they're moving forward >> and the good thing is if let's just say they're doing it we can kind of see okay well they just did it what are the bids coming back at I mean if they're coming back 30% less well then that's a whole that changes everything right now they're coming back 30% more and we're we're in a bigger problem >> and is Metrista funding theirs themselves >> they're funding them themselves they just more >> they're not relying on money federal money >> they did just like what we're we're doing right now today is that they now they were down there testifying right I think it was before or after me >> um for sure once and uh you know they were begging for for money just like we were I think theirs was tw was 18 that they were asking for >> yeah it was around 20 >> 18 20 somewhere in there again we were 30 so um they decided to go through it themselves they had a kind of a workshop or call it an open house kind of like what we're doing here let residents talk um if if again these are super high level so don't take this home to the bank but um if they proceed with this right so they went for bid so it's not done yet but um let's just say it it does cost 20 um plus the other stuff their water bill will go from the water portion only will go from about 30 to about 96 metric right so maybe they don't know that yet because they just did it But and again it's super super high level. Um and again ours goes from what 50 to to 95. So we'd be really close you know roughly to where they're going to be if we did our own thing too. Now Minnitankka Beach they as you drive to Wisetta right you go through Maka Beach you see that big concrete structure. That's their new water treatment plant. I've talked to Mayor Pagano there. Um they actually just sent us you know what what they did. Um 2024 went from 97 roughly a month to 2025 will be 172. Um and they what they did is they just did a a line item water treatment plant cost so that each resident knows. Um, again, super super super high level um on the on these facts, but um we're not off of our what our neighbors >> they funded it themselves as well. >> They're not getting fully funded projects. >> Yeah. What was it? Six 6,000 or 5,000 a resident or something. >> About 5,700 a year. >> 5,700 a year for 25 years. >> 20 years. Uh I if you'd like I >> now remember Mitaka Beach is a lot different clientele than mountain but just you know Minatrista more similar you know >> right >> but Minatrista is also growing >> there they are growing but remember this still affects everybody that lives there. >> Yeah but I mean as more people it will >> they can't lower I mean that's you know they got about 10,000 we got about 10,000 it's still affecting even the old residents. It's not just the new ones coming. >> You know, just because you got new ones, it doesn't lower Oh, now we got more people in our town. We get to lower it. >> What are we going to say? >> Well, I was just going to speak real quickly since you mentioned the bonding bill and everything. So, the the MMB ended up saying that the state had about $750 million to bond for this year. There were $3 billion in requests just for drinking water for 2025. And that's those are that's just projects that are on the list. those that's projects that have been submitted prior to 2025. Um, so that's 981 projects. That's not 981 cities, but that's projects. There's more than that on the clean water side, which is your sewer stuff. And then add into that every bridge and road that that gets submitted. So, of that 17 billion or whatever there was, there's probably at least that many that much in projects submitted each year just to for capital requests. And it's I think Brian can speak to it, but I think there are already more than $3 billion requested for 2026 for clean water for projects that weren't funded in 2025. So it's incredibly uh competitive. >> Yeah. And the other thing too is we do roll that. So the next, you know, we're already going to submit we we ask our engineer BMI to submit for the next year. um as they come out, you know, we I get an email and saying, "Hey, it's time to put it in for the next year and we and we do that and uh copy and paste and stuff." So, and then of course we're trying on the federal side or any other place. I get these random emails, you know, that there's other ideas or, you know, we we shoot them all, you know, as as they come. So, I mean, really, it's federal or state that's going to play out. >> Jesse and I were thinking thinking along the same lines. I I was just going to ask if you wanted some numbers, but 981 projects on the list uh 37 manganesees projects. >> Okay. >> Specifically, and some of those are repeats, you know, like some cities have manganesees treatment plant, you know, manganesees replacement well, that kind of thing. So, there might be a city in there four or five times with the word manganesees, but 37 manganesees projects are part of that, you know, 2.995 billion. >> Yeah. >> So, there's there's a lot there's a lot of projects on there. Also, not to throw shade, but the bottom seven projects are Minitista, Ministrista, Tonka Bay, Orno, Ministrista, and Tonka Beach. So, >> or Minnetonka Beach. So, yeah, that's just how they're ranked out. >> Yeah. >> In the in the current list. >> Okay. >> So, >> thank you. >> All right. Does anybody else want to come up? We want to hear both sides. If if you don't want us to do this, let me know. >> You give us your name and address. >> Dan Nestler, 3037 Dundy. Um, mayor, council members, thank you for the opportunity. Um, new resident of Mound. Moved here about a year ago. Um, as a career, I do water treatment, so Bolton very well. >> So, I'm gonna probably ask you some hard questions, Brian. >> Um, and not expecting answers on stuff here, but just hoping to ask some questions. I can follow up with stuff later. Um, >> tried to go through what's available on the public record. Um, just curious, you mentioned alternative study. What What was all done for an alternative study for water treatment versus well sighting study? >> Uh, Brian, you're gonna have to come on. Okay. So, the study is publicly available. Happy to make sure you get a copy of that if you've not seen it, you know, but there there's a number of alternatives in there. Um there's a whole discussion on treatment processes, but it boiled down basically to package filter plants. >> Okay. >> And a discussion on a c a single centralized package filter plant or smaller package filter plants at both the water towers. >> Okay. >> Is is the the gist of it. >> Okay. >> Is that helpful? >> Yep. So, or something. Exactly. >> Um, you might as well stay up here. Um, >> have we done a well sighting study for the proposed well and done any test well or anything? >> No, we can't we can't get permission to do that until we can we can do geotech. >> Okay. >> We've been waiting on the the state historic preservation office to clear the geotech. >> Uh, I will remind everybody that the mound in the name of the city are burial mounds. Right. So, so when we talked a bunch earlier about the federal government hamstringing our process, we have to notify all the tribes, there has to be a, you know, a minimum amount of time for them to comment. Um, and they have to come in and make sure that all of those processes are done, you know, with respect to their history and desires. So, that's why we've been waiting to I think actually they're clearing some trees out there right now so that we can get a drill rig back there >> to poke some holes to finish the well sighting study. >> Okay. Um, what? >> Uh, I don't know that off the top of the head. off the top of my head because we've got wells in two different aquifers already, but as you know, some of that is compromised, you know, and you can only get permits for new wells in in some of them in certain places. So, it depends on what we find down there. >> Okay. And that's one kind of curious about is as you get further into that on the well side, looking at potential for sourcing from the tunnel city. I believe current is pray to Shane and the drift aquifer and looking at nearby communities and if the tunnel cities got less manganesees if it helps us on the need for treatment of at least a portion of the water. >> Yeah, I there is a discussion in this study too about just drilling new wells and not treating at all. But at this point that seems irresponsible because we would have to do more than one new well and also with the presence of the the iron and the other things. You know it's we have gunk in the water already that needs to be removed and so this is sort of the chip the tipping point for treatment. >> Sure. >> Really? >> And just thinking it from the standpoint of it's a big bill that's nonfunded mandate. Um, if you get new wells and they don't have the manganesees will at least eliminated the help base guidance risk of the water that's being delivered and over time maybe there's money for a treatment plant. As Brian noted, all the distribution system is in place to be able to make that happen. Um, previous person hit up uh neighboring communities. Um, how far along in design are we Brian? Like is that a class five estimate the 30 million or >> we're we're on hold because we can't we can't do any geotech >> or I'm just so the number we've got would you call that a class five cost estimate class >> I guess I don't I don't know what you mean by the classes >> um a American association of cost engineers >> yeah that I'd be interested in class definition is of that but >> minus 50 plus 100 >> plus not there >> okay >> these are these are IUP PP PL level estimating numbers at this point. >> Okay. >> Because the design of the plant isn't far enough along to certify it to the questions you're asking. >> Okay. Um that's good because I think just looking at it I think there is opportunity for that number to be down as design gets further along. >> I I frankly I hope so but also I'm never going to commit to that in public because it the dollars just go up. So >> under promise overd deliver. >> You got me all figured out. Um, and then last, any concern about both wells being cited so close together in terms of interference if they both need to be operated at the same time? >> No. >> Okay. >> That's that's that's what I have my expert for essentially. >> Yep. Sorry. >> Yep. That that's what we have our our expert for. You know, there's enough room over there too to operate them far enough apart. You know, that piece of property we were looking at is is not necessarily super small. In terms of wells for sight in the plan, it's not huge, but um you know, aquafer influence and things like that, we've got some space and we have some other sites if we needed to go somewhere else. >> Okay. >> So there, you know, there are some contingencies. >> Okay. >> And then lastly, I just offer to the um the council if there's ever questions as a resident who does this, I'm very interested in what's happening and if it'd be beneficial as a technical resource, I'd be happy to volunteer my time. >> Yeah. Um, do you have a card? >> What's your name again? >> Dan Nestler. Nes Sl. >> I can get you some cards, too. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Take Jesse's card and shoot him an email. >> Yep. >> Appreciate it. Thank you. >> You're going to inspect the plan for me, right, while it's being constructed? >> Okay. Anybody else want to come up? >> All right. All right. Give us your name and address, please. >> Karen Redkey, 1742 Rest Haven Lane. >> Okay. >> Does the treatment center Does that take out all the contaminants like a reverse osmosis? >> So, that that's a really good question. Reverse osmosis is a specific process that takes out some specific things. The plant we're talking about is not RORO reverse osmosis just because I and I want to be sort of technically clear here. We're not talking about building an RO plant because RO also softens. Uh but we will be filtering and micr filtering for things. So they take out similar things at the level that we are talking about doing the treatment and the filtering but they're slightly different processes. >> So excuse me. Would they take out like the PFO the PFAS's? So we we don't currently have issues with PAS here on the west side of the Twin Cities. >> Okay? >> We're far enough away from the home of 3M and where all those things leeched into the water. Most of those Forever Chemicals have pretty distinct point sources. >> Okay. >> And we don't have any known point sources here. >> Okay. >> Good question though. That's been in the news a bunch lately. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask you a personal question? >> Yeah. >> What reverse osmosis system did you get? >> Good question. I have no idea. I just bought it. Paid 1,600 bucks for it. Did you inst I have an RO system. >> Did she asked me what type I have? >> Did you install it yourself or >> I can tell you that my >> have to you got to just >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> It takes everything out. >> Okay. Anybody else want to come up and say something? >> I'd like to piggy back off what you just discussed. Brian, can you just refresh everybody? Will this take out the arsenic, the uh chlorine and the fluoride or does this So we we are mandated by the state to add chlorine and fluoride. So it won't be removing those things. We'll be actually adding them to the water to make sure that they are there at the levels that are mandated for us. Uh, I don't believe this filter is designed specifically for arsenic, but also we've abandoned the well that has the high level of arsenic. So, we shouldn't have that issue. But there's there are some very detailed technical specs on the, you know, the sizes of the filter and the number of microns and exactly what it removes that we can I I can bring to this group if that's the discussion we want to have. I mean, I think everybody would love to hear that just to make sure this is going to do what we're expecting it to do and people don't have misguided expectations. >> Yeah. In terms of iron and manganesees, that is exactly what this is designed for. All right. And and we we can talk about the the type of filter and the type of plant in comparison to the things that we have tested and seen in our water. And we'll be doing a similar panel when we establish a new well. But you you would be able to get like a more um not specific but like a more elaborate list of like everything that it's going to remove. >> Yeah. Jesse, did you see the the pilot plant run? >> Like it said, you know, mag manganese, iron, and bacteria. Add more. >> Yeah, I believe so. >> So So we have we have a a like a trailer mounted like a mini treatment plant >> with multiple processes inside of it and you and we can run the water through it. The one sort of unknown here is is the new well where we're bringing in water from a slightly different source potentially. So we need to make sure that the treatment is dialed in, the filtering is dialed in for exactly what's in the source water at the time that we're bring on more of the contaminants that would be removed just so we had a list and could answer. I mean it would help the five of us answer more questions I think too. >> I I don't want to sound like a broken record. I think most of that is in the treatment study but I will get I will get back to you with that specifically because it's pertinent to the conversation now. >> Okay. Those are also reasons maybe for me to bring along Mr. Groutman next time if you guys want to grill him on some of that stuff. That that is his what he's doing for us on this project. >> So this the mobile treatment, could we like um you know put like get video of that and or have it out and just make sure we're putting it on like our social media and our website and >> yeah, >> everything. >> Definitely. No, as we get closer to this, that might be a thing that I asked them to roll out again and we could do a little bit of a dog and pony show out of that. That's helpful. >> All right. Um, >> thank you, Brian. >> So, comments. >> I'm just curious. I think some of the things that we heard on Saturday, um, when we were at Spirit of the Lakes or I can get rid of my bottled water. We need to make sure that that expectation would be described in the discussions we just had with Bolton Mate that you know is this what you're going to get when you turn on your tap. >> You asking >> I mean yeah what what are we filtering out is what the discussion just covered. >> I mean I don't want people to think that they're going to be able to turn the tap on and it's going to be the same thing that they get out of a bottle of bottled water. >> Yeah. I >> I mean I don't know how to >> Well, maybe let me address a couple pieces of that that are somewhat problematic for me in in my attempts to be accurate in my statement. >> What's in that bottle could be all sorts of stuff. >> I That's the other thing. >> And often times it is it is untreated water with minerals in it. >> Correct. >> And that's why we like the flavor of it. >> We have had this conversation before that when we filter everything out, it will change the taste of the water a little bit. >> Sure. And and frankly, I'm I'm here for the somebody wants to tell me they don't like the taste of the water after we take the manganesees out, you can you can put my face on a dart board and we can throw darts at it all day long. I will I'll take the heat for that one. Uh but so it's going to be a little different than what's in that bottle. Uh but we should be removing those that red and yellow, the orange, the oxidized iron and the black from the manganesees, those particulates and particles that are in the water now that are coming up from the aquifer through the wells. So that's that's the stuff that to my mind when you say that the clear water in the bottle. >> I agree. >> Versus the you know the pictures of the the not so great water in the tub and the sink, >> right? >> Yes. Is the answer to that. If we're talking about those differences, we will be taking that out. I just want to make sure we meet expectations or that we explain and I make sure it's very clear that because as you said I think most people that buy bottled water don't realize that there's 20 different variants as to the source what's in it what's not in it that same thing. So, one one thing I I I don't want to waste an opportunity to say, and and this is sort of one of those hard truths, is that after we turn the treatment plant on, there is going to be a period of transition where things may get rocky for a minute. We may have to do some additional flushing. >> We're going to we're introducing different water chemistry to pipes >> and we're going to stir some of that stuff up. It's going to take a minute for us to get it all out. Obviously, when we get to that point, we will be having a completely different discussion about, you know, operation of the system and how working together with Ryan's guys, we can move that stuff out for once and for all. Uh, but there is going to be a period of time where people might say for a couple weeks, this has gotten worse, not better. What did you do? >> Right? >> You know, and so we'll have to make sure there's some education around that because I'm expecting some of that with the change in water chemistry and the the clean water versus the sediment laten water. So >> well at $30 million I think the general consensus out there at least from all the people I talked to are it's going to be this miracle immediate fix and in agreement that managing their expectations um to understanding what this is going to do I think is going to help them and all of us do what's best for our residents what our residents are asking for. Um, I think we all have a different story. I have no problem with my water whatsoever, but my neighbor, you know, have a block up has massive issues. So, we we have a big contingent of people that, you know, some have problems, some don't. Some aren't going to want to spend 30 million and some are. So, I think as clear as we can be with what people can expect, I think it's going to be the best solution for us to try to deliver what they're asking for. >> Agreed. Agreed. >> Uh, point of order. I'm going to close out our public comment session. Okay. Now, we're back to the to us again. >> Okay. Go ahead. Do Do you guys have anything else on that? >> Okay. Do you guys have anything to say? I have a quick question maybe for Brian and or Noah. Um it was mentioned before that could we say it's a fact that switching our bill from quarterly to monthly would help pay down the interest of the loan faster or is that just making the bills simpler for is the purpose of that to make it simpler for everyone to pay in budget or >> it's simpler for the residents to pay is my understanding right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I know that that's a benefit, but would it >> act as like, you know, how some people do their mortgage, you can, you know, jog ahead and pay pay every two weeks. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And knock your interest way down. Is that something that could have an impact on our >> potential loan? >> I don't think we're going to make our loan payments on a tighter >> Yeah. >> would make loan payments a year, February and August. >> Okay. So, it would be a benefit. >> Yeah. It wouldn't do that. That would just help residents cash flow with their other monthly. Okay. >> Because that has been something that >> I think all five of you have asked or wanted to explored. So now would be the time to do it with the utility rate study opportunity to try it. So >> it's a lot easier to pay a monthly bill than a quarterly bill. >> In my household, >> I'm sure everybody would agree. >> Yeah. >> Or even like the garbage bills every other month and I'm like >> set it up. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's just easier when it's monthto month and it's roughly the same amount. The strongest argument that I have heard for the monthly bills is that we avoid some of those surprises, right? >> You know, for those people that have >> gone somewhere for two months and their toilet broke and ran, >> right? And it just >> pump drinking water into the sanitary sewer and their meter spun for two months and then they come home to a a huge surprise that we would get to something like that faster. And there are all sorts of other safeguards in place for that now, but we would get to something like that in a bill form sooner. >> Okay. So that that's that's the strongest argument I've heard for monthly billing. I know it's also going to cost the city a little bit more. >> Would there be any um idea or way to possibly put out a idea for, you know, let's say 40 residents are willing to pay 10 or 20 grand upfront to eliminate that monthly bill. it would give us x amount of dollars to pay towards the plant without having to take out extra money. Is there a way to explore that? >> That sounds like an awesome idea and a financial nightmare for Noah. >> Well, it might be. No. That's why I'm trying to look over Brian's shoulder at you. But but I I know 20 residents right now that would do that. And and would it be beneficial to us to take that big chunk in? >> So 20 residents would pay like 10. >> No, like maybe you could get 40 or 80 residents,000 up front. Yeah. >> And then we just kind of amortize it down >> as we go on our books. Is that >> Well, I would take that money and use it towards rather than borrowing on the loan or something. We could use that to save ourselves payment uh interest rate. >> Yeah. I'm not I'm not sure that I mean that's something we can look at like I don't know the mechanics of that. I mean that you're kind of talking about like an assessment almost in a way to the properties. I know it' be voluntaryism I'm assuming right. Um, we can >> that sounds exactly like an that sounds like you're borrowing from the idea where the assessments can be >> levied to your property taxes with interest over, you know, 15 years or you can pay them upfront lump sum, you know, and that's >> I'm just wondering if that's something to explore that could save us some. >> Yeah, I don't know what the legalities of a prepaid utility bill to that level would be. I I'm I honestly I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah. >> I mean, obviously it's not a an assessment under 429. >> No, not at all. >> So, there's no authority under that with regard to some type of prepayment. >> Um, it's a monthly bill that's added on for that 20 year until the the obligation is done. Um, I guess that's something we'd have to explore. Um maybe there's some ability because water water run falls under a different statute. It's if he gets to geek out so do I. So it's under 444075 deals with statute deals with water utilities and some other utilities and so maybe there's something under there. Um but we'd have to >> we'd have to review that >> because most of that language though about recovering payments when they're not made and how to structure the utility and all that. >> Not necessarily. talks about it talks about you know availability fund you know availability it's different charges so there's a section in there I mean this the question that you're bringing up has not been posed to me before so it's it we'll say it's novel >> I'm just trying to explore some options to save >> yeah but that's where we're going to find probably find the answer to that if there's any >> because we can we can only deal with what the authority we have is only what's been granted to the city by the by the state and so we'd have to find something that would provide that authority and and that's the first place I would look and so we can explore that um if it's you know different but I think that's where we're going to get down to but that may be like I don't I a question is do we spend do we do that now before we even know if we're moving forward to it or do you want to move forward to it maybe as we're doing the rate study we can find out different ways to to address it I think that the decision has to be made I think which direction you want to And then we can maybe then then we can maybe then that's the right time to look into it. I mean or you tell me if you want the information now. >> I'm just throwing it out as as an exploration. >> I'm making a >> Oh, we can definitely look into it. I mean, >> yeah, I mean it's >> I just drive around all the time trying to figure out ways to >> Oh, that's good. Maybe we should do a gofund. >> Well, and I I guess I will mention too, we are uh always open to don to donations. I mean, >> let's do a gofundme. >> But that's that that's great because >> well, we can't fund raise, but just today that the JC's dropped off some checks because there as a nonprofit, you know, for legal gambling, they need to donate x amount of dollars every year. And so um people do that privately. They do it anonymously. The city receives a fair amount of donations generally not you know in the amount to pay for a water plant. But I I will mention two >> but it is an idea. >> It is an idea. I I you know part of this grand conversation too is uh piggybacking on the financial management plan and the the health of the water fund in general. So, I mean, anything that can get us ahead a little bit in the water fund will affect, you know, how much money we need to borrow if the city borrows to to pay for the plant. So, >> well, anything that we can do to, you know, we've just spent the last three years getting ourselves healthy financially and this is going to put us back 20 years. So, anything we can do to help alleviate that, we should all be creatively thinking about that. >> So, I will say, uh, council member and I, right, we've been racking our brains behind the scenes with Noah. Uh, Noah's working with Ellers's, Jesse, Maggie. Um, part of what we're talking about franchise fees, obviously just pulling out of a different pocket. But, um, that's one way. The the problem a lot with the water side is because of the utility. You can't just raise, you know, the the levy and just offset it. So, if it was that easy, I would just be like, let's just have a higher levy year, unfortunately, and then just be done with it, you know, pay it off or, you know, a couple years of that. The other problem too is yeah, we already have, like you said, we've been pretty conservative with getting out of debt. Um the numbers, if you're watching this, um this is in 2023, but we had 4 and a.5 million negative in the whole for the water fund. Is that about the same roughly? Uh in if we did not do the long-term financial plan, we would have been by 2031 minus 8.6 6 million. And so what we've done is we're kind of trying to slow the the decline and start kind of getting out here really. That was kind of our goal is what 20 301 32 somewhere in there. Uh to actually be was it flat by then or at least not so negative. >> So through the FMP we're projected to be out of the hole by 2030 of negative cash. And how we get in negative cash is our cash from operations are not covering our annual debt service. Now we have a plan to do that, but when you add the $30 million, it complicates things. We don't have a lot of room for error. >> You know, we a lot of cities are sitting with $3 million in their water cash fund. We're sitting $8 million less. We're negative. So that kind of >> The other thing, too, is our sewer or sorry, our storm uh in 2022 was negative -2. What is that now? You're talking storm sewer. >> Yeah, >> it's negative -2.2. We plan to present the plan at some point this year to right >> slowly get that to zero. >> Right. >> So, >> so that's our other problem too. So, I mean, we all know this. We've talked about this, you know, many times, but yeah, adding 30 to our own is not great and that's not what any of us want to do at all. At the same point, I'm down at the Spirit of Lakes in our tent. you know, the city council, if you didn't know, we we had a tent down there and we had a table and a lot of us were there talking to residents and not all of them, but I'd say the majority that that came up to us were saying, this is what I would say. I say, "Well, what do we want us do we want to keep waiting and do your own thing, whatever?" And they're like, "No, I'm sick of buying bott water." I Okay, great. Heard that. But it's going to cost you that's not free. Would you be willing to pay more? Would you be willing to pay, you know, 40, 50 bucks a month or whatever the number was more a month? Like, yeah, absolutely. Like, fix it. Be done with it. I'm sick of our dirty water. I'm sick of our, you know, the stigma of having, you know, whether it's maganesees or really it's, you know, the iron and the uh, you know, the tinty water, the tinted water, the the dirty gross water that that and then residents have they're here's my picture of my Yeah, I've seen them. I've seen all of them. >> We We should have We should have had a QR code and let everybody upload those. >> Just upload your picture. Be careful what you ask for. >> Well, my dirty laundry, >> but but there's a there's a small there's a small aspect of of this that that is like, let's let's let everybody get it out on the table, right? >> Yeah. No, is right though. It was most people saying like, you know, it would have been nice if this was done already. >> Well, and remember, we >> we did get 10 million. We did get another million. What the reason why I wanted to do this now and have a honest conversation and we don't have to do anything. We can keep waiting. >> Nothing is an option. >> That's absolutely an option and I'll keep fighting as long as I'm here. >> When I'm not the whoever is next can fight, whoever wins the next election. So, but we can keep fighting. We're doing it. I'm telling you, I'm talking to the people and they're not that optimistic about us getting money. I I I've been saying that for >> six months or so. drinking water. >> Huh? >> They want clean drinking water. >> They want clean drinking water. >> I mean, I get tired of going to my doctor and she's saying, "Can you drink the water in Mound yet?" >> Oh, God. So, I just Are the drinking fountains on yet? >> I was at work today and someone that they grew up in Victoria said the same thing. They're like, "Oh, yeah. You must have just fun out there with your water." So, at a certain point, it's stigma. It's, you know, all the, you know, the things that you hear, right? Is does that affect property taxes? Does that affect people >> to to to live here? Property values. I mean, I don't you know, we don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? But I Some people say, "Well, if they don't want to they don't want to deal with it, then move somewhere else and someone else will buy their house." Yeah, people buy houses all the time here. You just did, right? Um, now remember, you can also, if you have a water softener, we we've talked about this, you have a water softener, when when I have a shower and I go, "Wait a minute, I don't feel quite right. What's going on?" No. Then I go to the base. >> Suds. He's not It's not getting bubbly. >> Well, I don't know what it is, but it's something I just It's not Suds. >> And it's a couple days of it probably, but then I'm like >> itchy. >> Yeah, a little itchy almost. >> Scalp is itchy. >> And then I'm like, okay. Then I go down. Of course, it's bone. You know, it's there's nothing. Well, there's water on the bottom, but that's it. And so, you know, do we should we provide water at at the source, right, for our residents? For that's what every other city does. They provide it at the source. They don't say, "Oh, you do your own thing. You figure it out." You know, blah, blah, blah. They provide it at the source. They treat it so they have clean water. Now, if they want to filter it on top of that, they want to do water softener. If you live around here, you got a water softener. I'd imagine you should be water softening your water anyway. Um, but that's where I caution people say, "Well, I can drink my water because I have a water softener." Well, first of all, make sure you're keeping up on your salt. Make sure your your unit works. Make sure that you know I I had to break down. That's why I got the RO. Not because I felt like I had to do it because of that, but I just thought, well, it's time. I'm just sick of buying bottle of water as I have a bottle of water here. But um we have a lot less bottle water. Um I drink out of the out of our our O tap now constantly. The other thing is I would caution is where is your water coming into your house? We're 100-y old community, right? Um, if your water is coming in, mine comes in through a main line and then it treats it and then it shoots it to the rest of the house. That's not all houses. So, some people have, you know, a kitchen line and some people have other lines. So, you know, if you think you're drinking your water because you're you're softening it, you better make sure you're softening it and that you're pipes are, you know, call plumber and have them come out and look at it. Um, and then yeah, if you want to do a RO, I did again 1,600 bucks. That's what it costs, right? uh water softeners what a couple grand or 1,500 buck whatever you know for all that you should be doing all that you should be buying the salt I just had salt delivered from the hockey team it was 30 bucks a 30 bucks a bag >> 10 bucks a bag >> eight bucks a bag >> 10 bucks a bag it was >> was it >> because they got 30 bags was 300 bucks >> plus bonus sweaty smells >> well they put it where I wanted to go too so that was nice I live on the hill they brought it >> that's the benefit >> I was like >> we did it for about I don't know 15 years >> yeah I'm like call me please. I actually texted him. I said, "Are you doing this right now?" He's like, "Yeah, actually, you're in luck. I know you're doing it." So, they bring it down my hill. >> I have one last senior and I'm just like, "Oh my god, I'm gonna have to go searching for hockey players to deliver my salt." >> I still know a few of them. Um, >> good. >> So, yes, you can do it yourself. And if you are drinking your own water, yes, please be be checking it. Um, send in to Detroit Lakes or drive it over to Bloomington. Call them. Um, again, we have it all on our website. Um, but again, at at at the source, I think it's the city's responsibility to be treating it for the general public in general. Again, let's just say you're you're new to life and you don't know how to do water softeners and and you just moved in, you're first-time home buyer, or you're elderly and you can't you just don't know or you don't haul those big salt bags or you don't have someone to do it and and you and you've been dry for four years and not knowing it and you're drinking the water. Don't drink the water right now. That's why we sent the letter. >> One of the things that I found surprising is a lot of our multifamily developments don't have water softeners. >> There you go. >> So, some of those, you know, older condos have hard water coming in there. >> Um, >> mayor, you're making a case and point for all the people that visited you at the tent. Yeah. >> They're all like, I don't care what it takes, just fix the water. Again, it's a beautiful thought, but again, I think that's why it's so important that we really help them understand what this treatment plant is going to do to manage their expectations because I I know what they all are expecting. We just send a message that it's going to meet like >> EPA expectations, you know, like it's I want to say clean enough, but like you can drink it out of the tap, you know, it's not going to look like >> now and people don't listen, >> but like no, it's not going to look like smart water, you know, but like it's safe to drink. We can turn the drinking fountain in the park back on and >> but it's safe to drink now if you're treating it. So >> there there are just so many, you know, the the rumor mill, the complaint club, you know, they all help keep the stigma alive for us without really a lot of the residents don't realize that they can drink their water. You have a water softener and you know that it's taking care of a lot of the maganesees. So I I I I just with this 30 million and it doesn't matter if we we're here to to do what the residents ask us to do and help them understand why this is something we either recommend, feel comfortable with or you know and again for for the residents to know that is it October mayor? So September 30th is when they have to pass their budget again. They could just do a CR and do it in March. >> St. Paul. >> No. Uh federal. >> Oh, federal. >> Yep. So that's what we're waiting for. So again, we're not making any decisions tonight. This is just an open house. This is just like we did in March. We just want to let people know. We wanted to invite the public up here to talk if they want to talk or you can watch us later if you're doing that. Um but really is yeah that's the next step. I I do think that the five of us should be talking does do we want to just have Jesse look at okay what does you know RFP look like right and then bring that back to us >> and then you know at a at a next meeting or two and then do we go out you know then they'll tell us well how much it cost and again remember this is something we're going to have to do anyway it'll get covered by the the loan part of it you know if we need to borrow money >> that's that's important I maybe glossed over that earlier I'm sorry to interrupt but the cost of the rate study can be rolled into the loan, >> right? And again, I unless >> assuming assuming we get one. >> Yeah. Unless we got all the money, you know, and if we do that, who cares then we just paid for the study. It doesn't matter because we just got a lot of free money. >> So, I think what what I I would like to do is I think it's time for a request um to to have, you know, Jesse and staff and and you guys, you know, look at, okay, what does that look like? and then they'll bring it back to a next next meeting or two. Then at that point we're not going to spend well we can but you know really we're just going to go okay are we going to approve this or not and kind of why are we doing it again? Um >> could you repeat that? What are you asking me to do >> the rate study or >> for the study >> the rate study and well because he we don't have anything prepared tonight. So, I just want them to start, you know, instructions of the staff to, you know, go out for RFP, you know, or >> prepare the RFP. >> Prepare the RFP. Um, they have to bring it back to us and then we'd have to do a motion to approve it, right? >> To approve it. >> Um, so this we're not officially approve tonight, but instruction is I don't want them to do that and then only two of us want to do this. And then >> you're not approving an RFP. You're asking them to get one ready. >> We're getting one ready and then at the next meeting or the next two. Am I wrong on this? >> Can you get that fast? I think um our position would be to request a proposal from Ellers since they're they're our uh municipal advisor and have done the the most previous uh rate study. So um it's semantics but just for the sake of the record, we would be looking for staff direction to get a utility rate study from Ellers or proposal from Ellers. um with some of these things built in that we've talked about, you know, looking at monthly and basically plugging in a water plant into the future >> rates. I I agree with that. I mean, Ellers has a lot of our data. I mean, obviously, we got to refresh and stuff and they know our they did our financial plan. So, instead of comingling another third party that does it and then it's probably going to cost more anyway, >> cost more with more time. >> Yeah. >> That's why I'm wondering how competitive is that >> that type of a >> study? I mean, as far as cost from vendors, do we have any idea? >> I mean, is there an advantage for us to put it out there and straight to get bit on? >> I I mean, I would say the advantage is to use the the municipal adviser that we've that we currently use for the FMP in the most previous rate study. I mean, there's going to be staff time regardless, but there's probably twice as much in preparing everything for a group of for a group that's never been exposed to Mound's books. I to your point, >> you could do an RFP that goes that that we prepare that goes out to everybody and it would be more of a competitive bidding process. >> I I can't speak to that. I I don't know that if it would be half as much or twice as much. I just think >> I I would doubt that it would be enough of a savings to justify moving away. I mean, it's similar to the I think a conversation we just that was just had about our engineers. um the institutional knowledge is sort of incalculable, but I I can tell you I I wouldn't want to subject Noah to an extra week or two of pulling things together. So that that's our recommendation. It's obviously the at the council's will if if you want to do an RFP, we can certainly prepare one. Otherwise, we would work directly with Ellers and bring something back a little quicker. Can I ask if this cost will be roughly the same as when Aaylor Ellers did our last, you know, when they were doing the franchise fee, I think it was what, 50 grand. >> Does any I know we're getting reimbursed for it, but we have to pay for it up front. How long will it take to get reimbursed? Just curious about cost and reimbursement time. >> I don't know that we have a good idea. I don't know if you do on cost, but >> and remember that they're going to come back and say it will cost this. Do we approve it? So, we will yes >> have a final say on it. >> Believe it or not, the tricky thing is going to be the going to monthly. >> So, that I don't know. I'm just just going to be honest. That would be the the tricky part as far as rolling that in utility study because that does change all your tiers. That changes your cash flow. Everything you do in your utility funds affects everything else. It's it's kind of like whack-a-ole. You take cash here, you got to make sure you balance here. It's it's it's quite intensive. So that would be my one just I don't know the monthly what that'll look like. Um >> and clarification too because you said um the study gets reim what >> rolled into the loan. >> Rolled in. >> It gets rolled into the loan. It's not really a reimbursement. It's just a refinancing. >> Exactly. >> It's rolled in but members. >> No, it's rolled in. It gets added to the to the >> It does. They also require us to do it. >> Oh, I I know that. But I just don't want us to think >> it's not a free >> understand that it is >> added cost into the bond. >> No, that's an important point. >> So, if we decide that we want to look at Ellers's for the utility rate study, it would still come back with, you know, how much it will be and then we can just say yay or nay. >> Yeah. >> We want to look for somebody else or that's acceptable. >> Yeah. I mean, I would second the using Ellers. I mean again I've talked to them too just going through this whole thing with the finance committee and it's they already know everything you know they know a lot of what we already they already did a study so >> we probably don't want to pay someone info that >> we're a small city we use these consultants just like bold in the mink right you know we can go search for you know a different group um but what's what 20 how long you been here not you but your group >> yeah I I have been here since 2005 >> yeah what's what's that worth to Although he's not an employee, he's our consultant that we pay. What's that worth to us? That's worth a lot. I mean, really, >> we the phrase I would use is we enjoy being an extension of staff. >> Exactly. Yeah. And then we don't have to pay we don't have to pay all year. We looked at actually bringing someone like you in in house and it it just >> I think why don't we we have a very competent staff and city manager and I think we should instruct them that we want them to look at getting a consultant contract for doing a rate study and that they will do whatever they do. They'll probably look at different firms not necessarily take RFPs. I don't think we have to get into the details of how they do it, but I think we asked them to use their expertise to find us a good consultant to do the study >> when I think that a motion. >> Okay. Well, we got a motion and and I think that's that's what what they are saying is they would prefer to use Ellie, but >> yeah, let them >> let them figure it out. >> Okay. Do we are we ready to be done? You got a motion? >> I just made a motion. >> Do we want to make a second? So, the motion is to to have staff >> look into a ret. >> Utility. I didn't say a. No, I said Kathy second. >> Oh, she second. Okay. So, I got a motion and a second. Can I get uh any other discussion about this before we move on? >> I think we've basically said everything. >> So, okay. Uh motion second. Um all those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. Those opposed. >> All right, that passes. So, >> I want to thank Noah and, >> you know, Jesse, Maggie, Brian, Jason, all of you for putting all this together >> so we can make an informed decision. >> Yeah. >> When the time is right. >> Yeah, >> I know it's been a whole lot of work and a lot of preparation. And following up on what Kathy was raising about, you know, getting community people to really understand this, I'd like to suggest that all of us as council people think about maybe groups that we know that we could do presentations to. And mayor, I'd like to encourage you to go to Gillespie >> and maybe do something after their lunch. They always have presentations after lunch on Wednesday. And last time you were there, 30 people showed up. So >> I I did it two years in a row. So yes, I I I can go back and >> you know, but there are other clubs too, service groups that we all are involved in that we could, you know, ask to be on the program to to keep getting the word out there. >> Yeah. >> So that people know and I think all of us should >> make a commitment to trying to do some of that. >> I will say yes, I second that. But remember, it's five of us, right? I'm not Mayor Fry, right? In Minneapolis, we're we're all equals, right? You know, yes, I run the meetings, per se, but >> five votes >> there. It's all five of us. We're, you know, it's three out of five votes makes this thing work, right? >> So, please, you do one, too, right? You do one. >> Um, show up downtown with me, you know, come come to a Senate hearing. Come, you know, talk talk to the people. I'm sure you guys are, but um the more of us the better and and I don't think that's it's a bad thing. So, appreciate it. I I don't normally want to spend taxpayer money on anything, but in this situation, I think once the the message is crafted and we've made a decision on what what direction we're going to in, I think we should do a mailer to all of the residents to give them an absolute heads up with enough time to understand this is the direction we're going, >> you know, give them one more time to come in and voice their opinion. This is so much money and yeah, >> I I I really think we owe it to the residents. You know, we can hope and wish all we want that they're checking social media or checking the website, but most people are pretty apathetic until all of a sudden they get that bill >> and go, why didn't I know about this? As you said, we've given them every opportunity to understand that this has been a really hard issue. Um, and we're empathetic to the cost of it. And so I would recommend we look at doing that. Again, once the message is crafted and we feel good with it, let's get those residents something in the mail that they can physically read >> separate from the news. >> Oh, 100%. Yeah. >> And maybe do it after an EDM type piece. >> And that would be like after October when we, you know, decide or find out if >> Well, I don't know. That's what we're talking about. I I When would we send that out? That's a good point. >> It' be after October, I would think, to put AC more the most accurate numbers on there. >> Yeah. >> You know, and then kind of a narrative around, you know, consultants and studies, too. I mean, like you said, spending taxpayer money. I mean, there's great benefit in >> like, yeah, studies cost money and it's a big, it's just like a number that we just But it's helps us keep staff small and save a lot in the long run. I mean, having people like Bolton and M. So, I mean, if we can get more accurate numbers around that, that's probably a really good idea. >> I'll jump >> your separate mailer. I mean, >> I'll jump in too on that point. So, we're waiting to October because that we have a couple irons in the fire. Um, that in in Brian's timeline, there was when we can start getting reimbursed for for the 10.3 million. That's this fall around that same time. as long as everything goes right from here to there, that basically takes the brakes off of the design. So, realistically, if the council's making a decision, you know, vote to approve a going out for bids for this thing, it's not going to be until the spring anyway. So, there's going to be a little bit of a lag between when we know if we're getting funded to when we know if we're moving forward. So, we can do this over the winter or in the fall right away. We could do two of them. I mean, I I I believe I think the same the five of you do that more is better from communication. I'd rather just continue to inundate the public. So, um hopefully in October we're celebrating and that makes it a little bit easier to move forward. But, you know, good or bad, we should probably be we can start crafting that around then for something for the fall outside of the the um the newsletter. But, yeah, there there is a little bit of time. It's not we're not going to come back in October and and at least I won't be asking you to make a firm decision that day. I think you like I said maybe you'll be able to, but there there's a little bit of a lag there. >> If we are able to, that would be probably a really good thing. >> If there's $15 million waiting for us, then yeah, I'll be begging you to build a water plant. Don't worry about that. >> All right. >> Be marvelous. >> Number nine, we got C comments and reports from council members. Council member Pew. >> Um October 25th is the going to be the 25th anniversary of Gillespie Center. They're going to have a gayla. So I expect to see all of us there in our best and having a good time. >> What time is it? >> I I think it's probably going to start around 6 or 7. Um but they're just putting out the save the date. >> Is that a Saturday or >> It's a Friday. I'm not sure. I think it's a Friday. Well, they have lots to celebrate. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, they do. They really do. >> October. >> They've really come a long way. >> They sure have. >> And everything. So, >> Saturday, >> what is it? Saturday. >> Saturday. >> Putting it on the calendar. >> Yeah. >> October 25th. >> October 25th. >> At 6 7 o'clock. >> Yeah. What like speakers, fundraising, that kind of >> thing? I think they're going to have a band and >> speakers and you know, food and >> celebrate. >> Okay, cool. >> Is that all you got? >> That's all I have except for I have to admit that this year at Festival of the Lakes, I couldn't believe all the the businesses >> and I thought, where are they all hiding? >> You know, >> I mean, it was really great. I mean the parade was like double >> the size this year but a lot of businesses >> were in it and um and it was interesting to see the u the ebike folks and then we also had the mountain bikes and I wondered where are the mountain bikes kids going you know but um it was good to see the representation >> all right council me >> well and I want to thank public works But he's gone. >> He got a three-hour drive ahead of him. >> Oh. >> Oh, really? >> He's going to a public works conference. >> Oh, he is. >> Well, Ryan and boys, thank you for all of their hard work. I I was only able to be there I had my 50th class reunion this weekend, but I was there Thursday uh night and the uh kids fair >> was fabulous. The business fair, it was really new, right? Yeah, it was new and it was really it was really neat. Matter of fact, his kids made $200 or something and they're breathing. >> Yeah. So, that was a really great addition. And then, um I got back in time late Saturday afternoon, so I got to see the fireworks in a little bit of the end. But also to um the Spirit of Lakes Committee, thank you. Alan Alas, Hagen Landscaping, Nickhamdox, just one heck of a fireworks show. Best on the lake. So, thank you for that. Um, Maggie, I I was all excited yesterday when I thought InvoiceCloud was up and running and then I go to sign up for it and it's not up and running. So, what happened? >> Yeah, I made an error on the website. So, I changed it back. I So, that was my fault. So, we're still on board for Thursday. >> Oh, it's opening Thursday. >> Yeah. And so, the I made an error. I thought I set the I thought I set the website to update the that it was opening on Thursday. I didn't realize I didn't set it up correctly. So, it's reverted back to what it was. And then on Thursday, everything will be updated on the website showing that invoice cloud is now available. >> So exciting. >> Yeah. >> I wasn't looking to place any blame. I was just I was just curious. No, I >> something happened. >> It's been going back and forth, but we're finally confident it's going to be ready Thursday. Thank you. >> That's really exciting. Thank you. >> Tentatively confident. >> The programmers are still emailing us back and forth. So, I just want to be We're very hopeful. >> That's really exciting. Um, also I've been curious a lot, you know, with the 250 year celebration coming up next year. Does Mound have any plans to celebrate in any way America's 250 year? I I know it's I'm just throwing it out there if we want to give any consideration to something. You know, I I can maybe put something out into the ether on like if there's a larger entity that might be sponsoring something, you know, I mean, there's a lot of cities that probably are interested in doing something. It'd be nice if we didn't have to all do our own. >> That would be great. It'd be fun to look into it. >> Uh oh. I I think that's probably it. >> Okay. Uh council member Kelano. Um I don't have anything um I guess personally that I want to add but were you going to mention >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. No, I don't think I have anything I want to add. >> C here. >> Yes. Was stated earlier. Um we had our meeting with the Orno Police Department. Um I know you mentioned the eBike thing and so did the police officer that was here. Um, I really think we should definitely consider coming up with an ordinance for the city uh that would be in line with the other participating cities of the Orno Police Department. Um, I don't think this is going to go away and based on what the statistics that they had shown us in that meeting and things how rapidly they're changing as the police officer mentioned, um, this is going to be tough to stay ahead of and and if we don't start working on it now, I'm not sure that we'll be prepared. It's really frightening when they come up behind you because you don't hear them. >> They never say on your left, do they? >> Well, and I think we come together as a consortium and approach maybe I know you're already working with the um commissioner and Three Rivers and maybe if we come together as a group and say, "Hey, we're all going to do this. So pieces of your trail will now be broken and we're going to enforce these rules, you know, in our city." Um but that's one thing because as you said and he said and you know the discussion that we had with the other cities this is becoming a very serious problem. >> Um and um on the jet ski conversation was another thing we discussed. Um, I think we want to be very clear with our constituents too that we own up to the water. And so if there is an issue that's occurring that is on the water, they need to contact LMC or the sheriff's patrol um to have them deal with it on the lake. Um there's a lot of chaos going on out there, especially officer side. I've seen it. It scares me to death. >> Those flips and stuff, >> it's just Well, they're out there on these jet skis without, you know, life jackets on. on that earlier. Jesse, we were also getting a buoy. Has that been I know we talked about that briefly, please. >> Approved by the water patrol and ordered. I haven't seen a picture of yet, so I don't think it's >> So, you don't know when it's coming? >> As soon as it gets here, we'll have it on. >> All right, that's great. Um, and then of course, anything that's happening on the land, then that would be the Orno Police Department. Um, I do have a question. There is a sign down there that talks about parking on the weekends. It doesn't mention if there's a fine or what happened. So, Do we know? Is what does that ordinance say? Do we know? Is there a fine of $50, a fine of $5? What? Get hot barking down here. >> That's the problem. Some people say, "Eh, >> I'll just pay the $50 fine and no big deal or whatever it is." It's not much. >> Make it stiff. >> It's It's like a state thing that we can't change. >> You can only do it. Okay. But what is the fine? So, >> I don't remember. >> Well, sometimes they tow them, but very seldom. Yeah, because I mean there was one down there Sunday and I left the area, came back and it was still sitting there. There was not, you know, a tag and I thought, "All right, I'm not going to do anything about it." But, um, you know, if we're going to have a rule, we need to enforce it. >> I always call them when I see that. >> Yeah. >> They they know to go check on him and whatever. But yeah, >> I mean, the problem is they don't always do much, but >> Yeah. >> I mean, I talk to them every single weekend. You know, we've been really lucky the last two weeks. You know, we've kept the a couple of the rogue businesses at bay, but they they don't do one ounce of instruction. They use our beach as their staging area, >> and they send people out there that have no clue what they're doing. They have no direction on what to do. And this is gonna self-correct itself a little bit now that the new law is going into effect that everybody has to have a boater's license. >> Right. >> But the problem with that, like I know that I've talked to Kenneth Bay Rentals and he's already working with the DNR to figure out how rental companies are going to be dealing with this, >> but most people aren't giving any thought to that and it's going to be a problem enforcing enforcing >> because enforcement is always the problem. So, we are going to put out a buoy. Uh, we got a permit or we're Is it approved? >> Yep. >> Okay. We got a permit for a Noake buoy. You've seen those, right? We're going to throw that out. What? 200 yards? >> 300? >> 300 feet. >> 300 feet. >> Uh, >> that's when they can break. >> So, then they can break >> speed or whatever it is. >> Yeah. And again, you're still going to see people breaking that. >> If if you film it or >> if you want to be Mr. Robin Hood, then sit down there. You can call the police. or sorry, call the call the sheriff. Sorry, the sheriff. >> Call the sheriff. >> Um >> but but yeah, I mean that's the other thing too. >> That'll be a great help. Just have some another obstacle out there. >> And then I do want to get another one for the other side. Um we just like we're trying to get one quick >> over by the other dock. >> There should be one over by the other dock. Really? And there was one again on the left side a long time ago as I'm looking at the water. >> Are people using that other dock now? >> They use both docks all the time. People use that back. I never see people using use quite the one. >> Well, the one is really for >> getting in and out. >> I mean, the one side of it, the other side you can park, but >> you know, it's really supposed to be for that, but no, I park on the other one all the time. >> People use that a lot. >> Um, so that Yeah, we're going to >> I think just helping them to understand that, you know, the city owns to the end of the dirt and then we start with >> our jurisdiction ends where the water begins. >> Correct. There you go. That's a very eloquent way of saying it. I like that. Yeah. So that I mean that's something we have to be very clear about. Um and the parking thing is one thing that we can deal with. Um just hoping maybe we can either site an or I know there are so many signs there though. I don't know that anybody really reads them. >> Well the police you they've asked for those signs so they have something to be able to point to and say you're you know you're not complying with our ordinance or signs. So we added those two summers ago and actually >> last summer we had a beautiful summer down there. >> No, no big issues. And >> usually after the fourth >> these people get the the the understanding that they haven't registered with with mound. So they generally go away and go to another >> uh they're over at West Arm now, >> right? >> Uh you know and they go away. So, >> well, I just want to make sure we are enforcing our parking rule. That's the only rule really we have down there that we can enforce. So, I mean on that July 4th weekend, I mean it was bad out there. It was dangerous on the water. >> Um, >> parade to the water patrol for doing what they could do with the people that they have. But, uh, >> we once again we don't have much say in that. So, >> well, and again, um if you recall our meetings from two years ago, every single city deals with this. >> Yeah. >> Um that's why these people show up because they get kicked out of one city, you know, but it doesn't happen overnight. It takes usually takes a month or two for them to understand, you know, we're in great shape now that we do have an ordinance >> um and we do have a business registration, >> but they do everything they can to get away with it. And if we're not on top of it, they're gonna get away with it. So, >> we were told that one of them was in the process, but didn't have the insurance documentation to support. >> They're the ones that are terrorizing the beach. >> All right. Anything else? >> No. >> Uh, no. I'm done preaching about calling the police or calling them water patrol, but it does make a difference. I mean, we're asking these police officers to do something that they can't do. >> And but complaints really help, too, >> right? um they they understand that there is an issue and they do finally get down there to respond, but they have a log of complaints, too. >> So, we can say, I mean, from a couple weeks ago, they had probably had 30 30 calls, >> right? >> All about this, >> but I don't want to be calling them down there, the police department, making a call when there's nothing they can do other than give a parking ticket. >> That's what they can do. And they can call and have them towed. >> Well, they could have them towed or give them a ticket. I mean, I'm fine with them giving a ticket because I understand the liability if they tow a truck with a trailer attached to it. I mean, that's kind of a a bad option. But, you know, if you accumulate a bunch of these because these people seem to have no regard for the law. So, if we just keep ticking on them, eventually, you know, that becomes a problem for them. Mhm. >> I would think >> the the more they realize that we're enforcing >> correct >> what we're asking them to comply with, >> the faster they go away, >> right? >> Or or they actually register and follow the rules, >> right? >> And go more to them if they do that. That's great. >> Anything else? >> Uh no, the dog got uh what do you call it? The dog went to the city council meeting in Orno and got a badge. in sworn in there. You don't know what to call it. >> That little dog got a lot of bad. He's cute. >> All right. Other than that, no, I don't have anything else. I guess we'll get more updates on the ebike situation once we contact. >> I'll let you talk about that, but I'm done. Thank you. >> Cool. All right. Um, we are working on a proposal for, you know, how you put the flags up right all over town. Yep. >> Those little banner hooks right onto that. So, we're working on um a proposal that we were trying to bring it to this, but we're going to hopefully bring to the next meeting, right? At at the meeting, and I know there's been some thought into it. Uh you know how Spring Park, right? They do it. They're beautiful. Um so, I know you've been spend a little time with it, too. >> Well, I have a lot of concepts on it, but I'm still sort of putting on the brakes waiting to hear from Hasbro. So, we if that doesn't happen, we can abandon that. And I have a whole list of potential, you know, we need we need a tagline. >> Yeah. But I'm just saying like we're gonna bring it to the next meeting. How much do these cost to put banners all over the city? Right. But again, just the flags alone and then when you go through Stream Park and it's just like it's just so beautiful. It's it's it gives a sense of, you know, pride of the town. The other thing too is, you know, when it's funny when I was walking door to door, right, and saw you a few times and you um >> we would, you know, you go into the next city, right, and it's like, well, that's me and Trista. You know, it's so funny that people don't know where our borders are and it's like, well, that's Mound. Now, obviously, this is just our kind of our main intersections, but um I think just giving Mound a little bit more sense of pride of Mound. Obviously, making it look nice, right? We want this to be very, very nice looking. Um, and then anyway, Jesse's working on proposals for uh cost and stuff and it sounds like it's better than we expected. So, >> we also need to thank the Legion for their support getting the flags. I forgot about that. So nice. >> Yeah, they helped out with that. So, we need to definitely >> We really do. That's just Did they donate all those flags? >> I don't know. Noah may know. There was some money that we grabbed from one area, but the flags I think they bought some of them and donated them. I just don't know. We'll have to get the specs from >> They look really >> really awesome. >> Yeah. Well, thanks. >> I don't know if we send them a thank you note or how that works. >> We're not in the south. >> I guess if you're working on numbers, I'd love to make a presentation in that night, too, with >> everything I've worked on, whether we've heard from Hasbro or not. I still don't think it's going to be a problem because we're not doing anything with Hasbro that >> branding. >> Well, no. There >> copyright. >> We We wouldn't be doing anything that would infringe on their immediate copyright of their current logo. >> Right. >> I'm not proposing that at all. So, I think I'll just propose it one way or the other. And I can do that at our next meeting as well. >> Cool. Um, so it was what, two, is it two years ago or three years ago? I was at Spirit of Lakes Festival and um I'm in the the beverage area and Eric comes up to me and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to our our new uh deputy city manager." And so Maggie um who is it's unfortunately her last day tonight and sorry I'm putting you on the spot but we are all gonna ex extremely miss you. You've done phenomenal things for the city. We can't thank you enough for everything you've done. Uh is it two years or three years? >> Two. >> Two. Well, it's been a great two years. Uh I remember I still remember meeting you outside the the tent that first night and I thought, "Oh my god, she's just perfect." He just picked a perfect person. >> So, I I'll just say my thing. I don't know if anybody else wants to say anything, but thank you again. Good luck on your next thing. And if you need another job, you know where we're at. >> If it doesn't work out, >> if we can't find somebody and your job doesn't work out, come on back. Come on back. >> Yeah. This is really >> It might be timely. No, Maggie, I tell you every day, we have I think God put you on her path for the exact right time and reason, and it's been just a pure pleasure working with you, and I I just am so thankful you were here to propel Mound into the next generation because we were archaic prior to that. >> So, >> so, thank you and good luck, >> Maggie. It's been just a joy working with you, especially on the parks commission. They're going to miss you. >> Yeah. This is like I'm in shock. >> Yeah. >> But um I know you'll do well wherever you go. You've got a wonderful personality. You've got talent. You've got patience. And that's that's a a real value to have. >> I just want to say congratulations. But like what Kathy had said too is if you could just see from our side like how much you've gotten done and how many just what a great impact you've had on so many things that might seem I don't know smaller or they were easy for you but they were just so needed and yeah you did so many great things. So thank you and congratulations. >> You wore a lot of hats Megan. >> Yeah. No kidding. That's what that's what >> you're going to need a a hat rack wherever you go. Do >> you want to say something? >> I say now she's an expert on phone systems. >> I know she has another skill set. >> Um, yeah. I just want to say it's been a pleasure as well. So, thank you. >> Yeah. Sorry to put you on the spot, but we kind of have to. We We got to say how awesome. >> Really, I really appreciate it. Um, so thank you so much. >> Yeah. All right. Well, if there's nothing else, I'll take a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> All right. Can I get a second? Second. >> All right. Any other discussion? >> All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed. >> All right. We're ajourned.