Welcome to the Mountain City Council. It's Tuesday, October 28th, uh 6 o'clock. We're in Mountain City Council chambers and we >> [clears throat] >> uh do the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, we got our agenda. Do we have any amendments? >> I do have two amendments. One is for item four, the consent agenda. We need to remove [clears throat] 4E, the Whitmer pay request. And then item seven, the council introduction, you have you each have two letters that came in today um in response to it. So just the removal of the number E or letter E under number four and then the acknowledging that you have feedback for the for number seven. >> So we're not tableabling E. We're just removing it. >> Just remove it. >> Okay. I got the agenda. Can I get a motion with those uh amendments? >> Um I will make a motion to approve the agenda. Um and with the added amendment um for with the added acknowledging we're receiving um for the council introduction item uh number seven and then removing consent agenda item E. >> All right. Got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? >> All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. Those opposed. All right. That passes. >> All right. All right. Then we got our consent agenda. Does someone want to go through those can do that? >> Okay. Um consent agenda items A through G removing item E. Uh A, approve payment of claims. B. Approve minutes from the October 14th regular meeting. C. Approve resolution 2586 permits for 2025 tree lighting on Thursday, November 20th and waving of fees. D. Approve pay request one in the amount of $128,2245 to Pember Companies for project 25-10. Uh, and then F, pay request number three and final in the amount of $3,340.99 to create construction for project PW2508. And G, pay request number six and final in the amount of $3,320.85 to create construction for project PW2408. >> All right. All right. Does council have any questions or want to pull any of those? All right. Hearing none. Can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> Motion to approve. >> I got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Roll call, please. >> Council member Heric. >> I. >> Council member Mcne. >> Hi. >> Council member Pew. >> I. >> Council member Costalano. >> Hi. >> Mayor Holt. >> Hi. All right. All that passes. So if you were here for that, it passed. Uh number five, we got comments and suggestions from any [clears throat] of the residents that their item is not on the agenda. You want to come forward. All right, go to the next one. Number six, we got presentation by Marge Beard. She's the Three Rivers Park District 1 Commissioner. Welcome. >> Hi. Uh good evening, May and Council. Thank you so much for having me back in council chambers to give you a park update. So, so I'm going to start a little bit with the background who we are and I'll talk about some updates in the park. So, at Three Rivers, uh we were we are established by the state legislature. So, uh we are a standalone local unit of government. A lot of times people ask me, are you part of Henipin County? And sort of, but not really. Not really. Um we're run by a board of seven commissioners. Five of the commissioners hold an elected position and two are appointed by Henipin County. I serve in one of the elected roles and in my district I represent the city of the residents of the city of mound. Our district includes suburban Henipin County. So it's just what it sounds like. It's Henipin County with the exception of Minneapolis because Minneapolis has their own park board and we have a long-standing relationship with Sky County. So if you're down south of the cities down Prior Lake area and all that, you might see some three river signage. Uh we run the county some of the county parks on behalf of Scott County. It's really a great um use of government spreads that administrative costs wider better for the taxpayers and we partner with some other agencies to manage some [clears throat] facilities. So uh those tend to be golf facilities. Um Glen Lake in Minnitonka if you if you ever been there 9hole course it's owned by the county and uh we run that on their their behalf as well as the Parker Lake driving range in Plymouth owned by the county. We run that on their behalf. So, we have 25 parks [clears throat] uh and 27,000 acres of land. That's the equivalent of about 42 square miles. We have 175 miles of regional trail. And the regional trail is typically the trail that's found outside our parks. They mostly connect from park to park and they're easily identifiable by the yellow dash line down the pave trail. And we have a great example just feet from us here in the Dakota Rail Trail. We have another 300 miles of trail within our park. So some of those might be paved, many of them are dirt, some are horse trails, as an example. And we get 16 million visits a year, which is really significant because it's over twice our state's population. We are nationally recognized for for our uh treatment of natural resources. Good example near and dear to the folks out here is our treatment [clears throat] of lakes. Um, we have over a hundred aquatic invasive species trained inspectors inspecting watercraft in and out of the lake. So, we do our part to try to keep those um those invasive species under control. And in the uh bottom right corner, as an example, that is a photo from Crohassen Park Reserve. A little bit of a ride from here. It's up in Rogers, but that is the largest restored prairie in the metro area. So, as much as maybe you want to go out to the state parks to see uh prairie, you can just go up to Rogers and you can see it change throughout the seasons. So, natural resources makes everything go, but most people know us for recreation. That is how people engage engage with the parks. And we're wrapping up our summer here. The golf courses are still open. Just a little announcement, probably not for much longer, but they're still open. But we had a great summer of, you know, swimming and biking and really people just taking advantage of the the sunshine. We're getting ready to begin our winter recreation, which um one of the key things is Highland Hills. It's in Bloomington. It's our ski hill. If you've never been there, it's definitely worth uh worth checking out. And if you have kids, there's a great fourth grade pass there. So, that's a good good thing to know. Um but we're getting ready for cross country skiing. Hopefully this year we'll have some uh uh natural snow, so we'll be able to keep uh Baker Park going on that. So, at Three Rivers, we've really been welcoming everybody to uh to our parks. We've been doing that a couple of different ways. One of the key ways is through our Tri program. And uh the next Tri program we're going to have is really try it ice fishing because people really want to know what's going on on the lakes. So, we'll have an event yet to be uh announced and scheduled where it will create an environment, an introductory level um activity which people know it's safe to go out on the ice. We usually partner with the DNR on that. So, we have lots of fishing poles and augers and everything. We really try and get people a taste of that winter winter weather. But the most exciting thing happening at Three Rivers has been Mississippi Gateway Regional Park. So, we've been working on this park for 8 to 10 years. Uh we just had the ribbon cutting a month or so ago. Mississippi Gateways on the Mississippi River. You may have known it as Rapids uh Regional Park. Uh about eight years ago, we started the the turnover of that park. So we part of that was renaming it. And in the photos we have here. So on the left there's the gateway center. So that's the main building as you come in. It doubles as a visitor center and a nature center. You may have been to some of our other parks where we have separate facilities. This is one. It is fantastic. It's got classrooms and the whole downstairs level opens up out to the Mississippi River. So we have room for our rafts and watercraft that go out there. We've got many many pair of boots that the kids will be using to, you know, charge around out in the the river because we're really trying to get kids to touch the river. The top left corner is a we we have a water feature in front of the gateway center. It's called the mini Mississippi. When we put this all together, we said, you know, that Mississippi River is, you know, great river of the world. It's a little too rough maybe for some of the the little tots. So, this is a feature where water runs through and it's sort of recycled and all that and the kids adapted to it immediately. Some of us little older folks were a little like, are they really going to like this? They love it. And in the bottom right, the uh treetops trail. So that trail comes off the side of the gateway center. It's just what it sounds like. It's an elevated trail in in the treetops and it goes out to a great vista over the the wetlands. The birders love it because they're a lot closer to the to the the birds. Click a little closer to home. Just to highlight some of the [clears throat] natural resource work we've been doing on Whale Lake. So Whale Lake is in Minitista. It's part of the uh or adjacent to the um Gail Woods Park and we worked on a joint partnership with the Pioneer Creek wershed, city of Minitista and Three Rivers on some alum treatments. And alum is a treatment which uh attaches to phosphorus, makes the phosphorus fall to the bottom of the lake and it clears up the lake. It improves lake quality, lake water quality. And so far, Whale Lake uh was impaired. It's testing at not impaired, but for us to remove it from the impaired waters list in Minnesota, we have to maintain that for two years. There is another treatment schedule and we're sure hoping that's a big deal to try and get these impaired lakes back to restored. [clears throat] A lot of work goes in that. So, another highlight of kind of cool things we're doing is we have a partner with a partnership with Chronologue. And Chronologue is uh it's kind of just what the picture really tells a thousand words. There's stations. We have 25 stations schedu, you know, scattered throughout our parks where you take your cell phone and you put your cell phone into the holder there. So, we get the same picture each time and you take a picture and there's directions on each one how you send it to the cloud and then um our natural resource team can see it. And when you submit a picture, you actually get access to the whole uh time time sequence. So, it's kind of cool and it helps us do citizen science right here in uh our area. Excuse me. Click also closer to home. Uh I couldn't leave here without really highlighting the Dakota Rail Trail. You know, Mound holds a really great location on that trail, sort of midpoint. [clears throat] Um and it's got great parking and great restaurants for people to stop off. It's a great uh trail entree and exit point. So, we're uh we're glad to have that trail around. [cough] So, and uh just as we're wrapping up, so we have a great Three Rivers has a great relationship working with the mound staff and council, but we always uh want to continue to extend that our hand of partnership and friendships to to the city. So, if there are things that come up or questions you have, we want you to feel free to to reach out to us through me or or through staff. Um we have experience with a lot of natural resources throughout Henipin County. So uh we've likely seen whatever challenge you're having and we'd be happy to sort of uh we want you to see us as a friend and you know be happy to reach out to us and click and with that I'll stand and take any questions or comments anyone might have. >> All right. Does council have any questions for Marge? This may be a question for you or maybe for our city public works, but um will you be plowing the trail? >> So, uh for uh in all cases for all [clears throat] our cities, we have a winter maintenance agreement. So, we don't actually do any of the plowing of our trails. So, we make arrangements with uh the cities that the cities decide uh how much they want to plow. There's a multi-year agreement uh signed. And I know mound >> we we did it and it was 2021. Yes. And then >> you rebate us back the cost or >> we pay back a small amount portion of it. We pay you back. But mound on the west side of the trail wanted it not plowed because there's a snowmobile crossing or something there. Right. >> There's there's an apron that we put on, but >> yeah, >> it's yeah, >> not a big deal. >> Right. So that's that's a good reason why that the cities make the decision of what they want plowed, how often. Um, also it's it's key even with your other sidewalks and trails like you don't want to just plow that and then the street plow comes and builds it back up again. So there's a lot of coordination and timing that really works best from a local local decision- making. >> Great. Thank you. Uh well, my question or comment is [clears throat] I've noted that many cities have partnerships with the parkway and we've had some too with our [clears throat] crossings, >> but um we also have um a need to really think strategically how to link paths and mound to the Dakota Trail. And so in doing that kind of work, is that something that our staff generates with you or should the council pass a resolution requesting a partnership on that sort of idea or how would we move forward? >> So we would be happy to come out and talk to you or your staff on any topic parker park or trail related. Typically that's handled in your comprehensive plan where you have uh so cities have you know one of the sections of the comprehensive plan is related to parks and trails and many times there's identified trails that were probably identified decades ago >> that just sort of sit there and and it's up to the cities when or when or if you want to develop them or not. >> So it's usually part of comprehensive planning. And of course my my other question is the 17 acres that's um that you purchased right on our city border. It's in Minitrista. Oh >> just you know on Dutch Lake and stuff and have you had plans for that and could that possibly be a dirt bike path because we have a bunch of kids who do that. >> So a couple of things there. So I think you're talking about the most recent uh acquisition we did at um >> to com So it's within the bound it's going to be within the boundaries of Gail Woods. >> Yeah. >> Is that right? Yeah. So that actually completes all our identified >> I don't think it's Gail Wood the mound uh or the West the Water Creek >> right next to the Huber >> next to the funeral home. I just got an email on it the other day that they're >> I think I don't know if you guys do they own it or >> are you buying it or is the water >> I think the water >> Oh, there you go. >> Oh, is the watershed bought it? >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Sorry. >> Wrong place. >> And that's okay. And but we usually wind up participating in those some somehow uh advising on that and then you >> It's a beautiful wooded lot and it's a lot of hardwoods, >> trees in there. >> Yeah. 11 acres. It is the watershed >> and there is some kind of maybe I can forward this to Jesse and he can forward to you guys. >> Um >> but yeah anyway that's not >> Can you elaborate on the Gail Woods >> thing though? >> Uh sure. So uh from time to time um we we've we do acquisitions and we have uh park boundaries identified in our uh park plans which are like your comprehensive plans that go to the Met Council, right? There's a lot of that and uh we have park boundaries and there has been a few um identified private parcels that we had identified that we would like that right you know or the option to to buy and you usually sellers are cooperative. Many people want to uh protect their land. >> So and they have a >> a buyer at you know appraised value fair market value. So, uh, so we recently, it takes municipal consent, so we did have to go out to, um, Minatrista and get their approval, and I think it's coming before us at our our next meeting. So, that one's in in motion. >> So, it's just like attached to Gail Woods, but >> yes, when you see when you see the map, it's like Gail Woods and there's a >> it's just around it. So, it would complete the the the edge of the >> the park. Good. >> So, um, Yep. Yep. There's a number of parcels identified that way we would like to buy, but we don't force people to to sell to us. >> So, you don't go into imminent domain or anything. >> We don't do that. >> We don't we we are a um willing seller purchaser. That's that's in general how we operate. >> Great. Well, >> I want to say thank you for uh your partnership on the trail crossing. >> Um that's one of the You should have put the picture that I'm like, "Oh, I really I said we were talking. I was like, yes." So, that was one we were really proud of. uh to uh just in May, I think it was, we did the the ribbon cutting for the the trail crossing on Shoreline Drive. >> And I told my story then, I'll tell it here. When I first got on to the park district, the first pl first public place I went was at the Gillespie Center. And I had just gotten on, I really didn't know much. And uh Eric, the prior um city manager, tracked me right down and said, "We got to fix that, you know, >> that crossing. We got to make it better." And I said, "Okay, I'll I'll look into that." And then I saw the mayor who said, "We got to fix that crossing." And then I personally got on my bike and I rode the the um Dakota Rail Trail. I mean, I had seen the crossing, but it's a lot different when you're sitting on your bike at that crossing and you're trying to get across and >> yeah, >> there's a lot going on for the the drivers and uh so um I would and I know that had a lot of jurisdictions on that and you know, we were proud proud to play our part and glad [clears throat] that that's there. And I drove through that crossing today and I had a little way to go. >> [clears throat] >> Well, and I'm sure you know about this or will soon if you don't, but the other the other part um the other part >> on commerce, >> uh we're working on that that's I think more county is they're kind of doing most of it, but um we're trying to get flashers in there as well. So anyway, if you have to sign a forum for that, we approve we we appreciate you saying that. [laughter] >> We're we're we're we usually get involved somehow in that. very happy to to anything to improve pedestrian crossings whether there are crossings or not are important. >> Well, thank you for everything. >> My pleasure. Thank you very much. Appreciate being here. >> All right. Number seven, we got a council introduction uh presentation of concept plan from Max Bitterman on behalf of the Dog Wellness Club. >> Good evening, Mayor, members of the council, members of the public. I'm Rita Trap, uh the city's planning consultant. Um, we're going to do uh a council introduction this evening. It's a little different than we've done historically. So, I'm going to spend a little bit more time providing some context. Um, and then the applicant is here to provide the background of the request that they had this evening. Um, as you know, uh, your city policy requires um, having a council in council introduction when there is significant changes related to a subdivision or a plan unit development in the community. Um, the applicant is requesting uh consideration um or input from you on their concept for a dog daycare boarding and training facility at 4851 Shoreline Drive. Um, we are not sure yet exactly what the project will look like in terms of whether or not it will need a plan unit development or not. So to air on the side of caution and to take the opportunity for the applicant to pro have some input from you um before they spend uh the money and the time and the resources, we wanted to have this in front of you this evening. So we're having it go through the council introduction process. Um the dog wellness club is provid uh is promote uh proposing this dog daycare boarding and training facility. The one nuance that's difference about this than we've had in the past is that this use is not specifically listed in the city code as an allowed use. Um there is a section section of the city code that specifically states uh that if a use is uh identified as permitted conditional or accessory then it's allowed in the code and if it's not it either needs to be considered substantially similar or it's just not allowed in the code. Uh when we went through and updated the code requirements, uh at the time we did not include dog kennels, dog daycarees in the code specifically because it is something that would need a you know some discussion by the community about is it appropriate in the community, where might it be appropriate in the community, what conditions might you have? And we were going through such a big overhaul um that I wanted to make sure that that use did not get lost. and we had a conversation that made sure that we were clear um about where it would be allowed or not allowed in the community should that kind of use um ever be considered for the community. So that happens sometimes where our use tables don't include specific uses and that is why we have the zoning amendment process. So, if this applicant were to move forward, they would need to submit uh for a zoning amendment, a zoning code amendment, which would uh specifically request for you to add that use into the zoning code and identify at that time whether it's permitted or conditional. If you choose the conditional route, typically you would identify some conditions that you would like to see. Um, and then they could also apply for that conditional use permit. Um, and so I want to note that the location, this particular property is considered mixed use. Um, it is located, as you know, as I said, on Shoreline Drive. U, what's important to recognize whenever we have these conversations is that if we are making a zoning code amendment and we are identifying a use as permitted or conditional, it affects all the properties in that district, not just this particular property. So, it would affect all of the mixeduse districts that we have um, uh, or mixeduse commercial. And so I wanted to just make sure that you were aware of that because that would be helpful for the applicant as part of the conversation today to understand whether or not that's something that uh this use seems appropriate in the community. Where might it seem appropriate? Because if we were to make that code amendment uh then they would be allowed um to propose either a permitted or a conditional use. And that would affect so this property for example is the mixeduse corridor district. So that would affect all of the properties on Commerce Boulevard um from downtown to the south. So that would mean any property similarly situated depending on the conditions you identify would also be allowed either as a permitted or conditional use. So that's why this becomes an important conversation uh to make sure that we're aware that it's not a it is property specific and what they're asking for. Um but there are broader implications if we were to entertain [clears throat] a code amendment. Um so as is similar we do not make a specific review commentary on the concept introduction. We are here to just kind of provide the context, the background information you need. The applicant is here um to provide their information of what they're proposing. We did notice uh the surrounding neighbors as is typical and so there may be individuals in the audience that wish to add their feedback on thoughts about this. We did receive in your council uh amendment to your agenda uh earlier that was to add two email comments that we did receive. So, you had received those and those were amended into your agenda um that you can read this evening. With that, I can answer any questions uh if there are any. This is just a slightly different one. So, we wanted to make sure you had the context that the ask is about um the project itself uh as well as kind of just so you're aware of an overarching this will need um potentially a plan development that hasn't been decided. It depends how many exterior changes they're looking for. Um, but for sure it would need a zoning code amendment. Um, because currently we just we don't even include that use in our use table. >> All right. Does Rita have or does council have any questions for Rita? >> Okay, >> great. Thank you, >> Mr. Bman. >> Mr. Bman, does Mr. Berman want to come up next? >> Hey, how are you? Can you give us your name and address? >> What's that? >> Can you give us your name and address? >> Sure. My home address. or commercial. >> Yeah, the business. Okay. Um, my name is Max Berman. I'm the owner of the Dog Wellness Club. Um, I live in Orno, so I'm close by, but our business is uh 221 Border A in Minneapolis. Um, and our second location, if it works out, would be 4851 Shoreline Drive. >> Okay. >> Is there anything else you'd like to know? >> Yeah. Uh, does council have any questions or do you want to just run through a couple of the slides and just give us a >> Sure. I'll give you guys an overview of what we do. Um, it seems like everyone's pretty familiar with pet services, daycare, boarding, training. Um, so I think I'll focus more on what we do is kind of a paradigm shift in our industry and it's a bit disruptive. We started training in 2009 and we take what we call a dog centric approach. So we study how dogs raise their children, how they communicate, how they view society. And what that allowed us to do was create a pretty incredible puppy program that rather than training, it's more of a puppy parenting uh approach where we follow age and stage lessons from their parents. The other one the other piece of what we do is behavior solutions for adult dogs. And given the nature of the results we've been able to get on that front, we had a strong push from our clients to the way we say it create a dog daycare that's more of a campus than a kennel where it's built on inclusion instead of incarceration. Um that's the status quo in our industry and that's what makes us disruptive is that it's different and we're able to execute that by understanding how to make sense to our dogs and teach right from wrong and create a cohesive group dynamic. Um we had um the owner of the farmers market annex which is adjacent to the Minneapolis farmers market saw the vision and he leased us the space and we've been able to execute it there quite well. Um we're next to a daycare and the kids come by often. Minneapolis police and fire visit regularly. Um during the farmers market on the weekends it's like a petting zoo. Um >> you know I did just briefly read the two neighbor comments and one of them is for the odor related issue. Um the turf that we use absorbs no moisture and it has filler beads that absorb no moisture and are antimicrobial. Um beneath that there's sand and we rinse it regularly so when you stand over it you can't smell it. So if you were 150 feet away, you know, it's not a borderline issue um with how we've managed the yard. Um on the noise front, we have um our contractor has a composite fence that is noise reducing. We would plan to put an arbivite hedge around it as well. We'd be quite far from the edge of the street with which we would also put at the street level. We'd put a pine tree hedge, which I think I drew a picture in there somewhere. Sorry, I'm not following the slides. Um, but um, let's see more. Yeah, so that would be the idea where I have the blue pines. Um, that's a row iron fence in the drawing, but if it was a concern, we would certainly switch to the opaque composite. Um, and it's significantly far from the road, uh, from the homes that are on the lake. And so we that is definitely a consideration that has to be made. We don't have our dogs outside unattended ever and we don't allow incessant barking. Um, and it's where we are um, in Minneapolis is significantly more fast-paced and dynamic and we have no problem with the dogs being outside and being a part of the neighborhood. So, I'd say a lot of our clients, we have people that will pass seven or eight daycarees to come to us. So, they do, we were able to fulfill that mission of doing something different and better. And a lot of them live in the area. The current owner of the building is a member of ours who is going from Excelsier to the north loop passing several dog daycares because of what we're doing. So, uh, Gary and Teresa would love for us to be there obviously for themselves. But, um, this is an area in the west suburbs, especially West Tonka, Oro Navar. We have a lot of people that would be really excited to have us. So, I think if we were there, what people would find is that it enriches the neighborhood. It's fun to see the dogs and it's good for the community. Does council have any other questions? >> Um, what would the I mean I know there's city codes and all that stuff, but like what is your goal of like proposed like operating hours? >> Yeah. >> People that were concerned about barking, you know. >> Yeah. And that's we would definitely respond to neighborhood goals with when our dogs could or couldn't be outside if that was relevant. Um, typically we would have dogs um outside attended between the hours of 8 and 6. So, we could edit that, modify that if needed. >> And then closed on the weekend. >> We're open on the weekends. >> Okay. >> When did you open in Minneapolis? >> It was March 2018. >> Cool. >> Do you get a lot of complaints from your Minneapolis location? None yet. >> Yeah, we're um there's a residential building that went up a couple years ago. Nothing from them. >> We have um there's a restaurant with a patio adjacent to us. >> No issues. Of course, they're a dog friendly patio, so >> Right. >> They're within the concept. >> When you when the dogs go to the bathroom, is that that's where they go? >> Yeah, they would go in the yard. >> Then you pick it up right away. >> Yeah, we pick it up right away. And obviously, we rinse through the drainage if needed to. [clears throat] >> Okay. And how many how many dogs would you anticipate at any one? >> A lot. That's a great question. A lot less than a traditional dog daycare and boarding facility. So we'd probably have an average of 40 dogs a day. Maybe 50 55 during the week, >> 20 25 at most on weekends. So it's more boutique. It's the whole concept and the idea which makes it tough for zoning and what's expected and what's typical in our industry um you know is that it belongs in a neighborhood but every neighborhood has a right you know to manage it and also there's you know being second is obviously better than first but it's different um and between I don't know if you guys have ever been to other daycare and boarding facilities but most of them don't belong in neighborhoods and so this is a different approach um where the dogs are actually a part of the community and in a place instead of in a warehouse basement where they're more immersed into um daily life and into a commercial area like that. >> So most of the time the dogs would be inside >> most of the time >> have to go to the bathroom. >> No, we would hang out outside with the dogs a lot. >> Okay. >> Um and what we find is our dogs mostly just lay out and bask in the sun. Um, we don't allow erratic, crazy, wild behavior at the daycare. [clears throat] So, >> so I got three dogs. You have >> They can come. >> I have one. Yeah. Is there a size restriction? I know some we have some locally that are >> So, yeah, we Something else we do different than other daycarees is we organize them by age and stage. >> Okay. >> Not size. More like preschool, less like fighting. >> So, >> our animals are very social. I don't know. >> You have three. What kind of dogs? >> I don't know why. [laughter] That's >> we'll tell you why. Because you're married. >> Yeah. Yeah. I agreed somehow. >> We We'll address that later. [laughter] >> Anyway, well, her dog was in my yard the other day. >> Yeah. She >> fun. >> She's very social. >> She had to come get her get >> So, she would like it. >> Oh, yeah. She She doesn't know. >> Does she get a vote? Is she here? >> No. Dogs can't vote. >> Um, no. I'm just think like my dogs, they have a bad habit now of barking. >> Yeah. >> Um, you probably hear them. >> I can hear >> Jason. I'd be happy to come talk to you about it. mostly that >> I need to talk to you probably. >> Yeah, let's make that on the >> Can you train old dogs new tricks? >> Yes. >> Okay. Cuz they're >> not brand new. So, >> okay. No, we can we can talk to them about it for sure. >> But but that's what gets me worried with this, you know, neighborhood environment is and I'm sure when people want to talk, I'm sure that's the same >> one of the same thing as barking. And >> I don't have a lot of tolerance for barking. No, they don't listen to me because they're I'm not alpha. >> Well, there's more to it than that. I'll help you, Jason, on that part. But, um, yeah, it's a rational concern because most dog daycare owners that I know, in fact, all of them, um, who they hire, the way they they don't have a background in understanding, >> right, >> why dogs do what they do and what makes them get along and enjoy themselves. Um, and then they're hiring people who like dogs and need money. And there's no they don't have career people the way we do and it's not founded on an understanding that allows it to go well. So it' be similar to like if you were to open a pediatric clinic because you like kids and like money but that third piece of understanding internal medicine is not a part of the status quo. So that's what we do differently. And so that's a that would be my first concern just knowing our industry is it would be a huge no. Um what we're doing is different. It's better and it makes the neighborhood better. Um, >> do you ever walk them on the sidewalk or you stay in? >> Typically not. Um, you know, if we had a class and I was working with someone's dog who is dragging them through the neighborhood, I would teach them how to use communication instead of force to get them to relate well on the leash. But, um, we wouldn't take out groups of dogs outside of the fence. >> Okay. >> I think the concept is really fantastic. I I guess I'm more concerned about the implications of having to address the zoning amendments along the entire >> area. I'd like to see more information on that to see how that's going to impact >> the entire street. >> So, we'll have we'll have Rita come back up in a minute. >> Yeah. Because I have a question, too. Wasn't this was this the formal animal hospital? >> So, >> this building? No, >> this building. Okay. So, I'm trying to figure out where the building is. >> It's right next to the right the car lot when you turn off 110 and take >> when you come across the bridge. >> Yeah. Right. >> Oh, where the that little strip >> right to the left there. >> Uhhuh. Right next to where the tub thing was. >> Okay. >> Well, do we have any other questions for him since >> No. >> No. A lot of people address like the parking, you know, and stuff, but I mean, I don't really see that. It's got plenty of parking. >> You want to flip back? Who's the slide? >> And it's surrounded by businesses. It's not like after >> there may be maybe it was deeper, actually. I'm sorry. >> Like these look the same ones, but I think they're only talking about those. So, they >> I've seen one of these down south. And of course, you're addressing the warehouse type effect where they're in separate areas with the garage doors open periodically. Um, >> this is 15. >> You know, obviously there's >> um here >> challenges with certain dogs that lighting. >> Jason has one that likes to barbecue, which is why mine likes to go over there because that's how she knows >> they're out. I can go play. But my dog doesn't bark, you know, and I and I don't know, do we have ordinance against barking dogs or, you know, we have to adjust? >> Yeah. Once it's >> once it gets excessive. Yeah. [clears throat] >> It's like a two-minute warning. >> I don't want to listen to it either. I'm sure you know it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I I get it, you know, and I love Molly to death. So, it's not, you know, it's not a >> But no one wants to hear them barking. Nobody wants help. >> Exactly. And that's that's an owner issue, >> right? >> Which in this situation would be my problem, right? >> Yes. So um I guess what is done to mitigate that sound problem other than I guess the structural um the trees? >> Yeah barrier. Yeah, that's the approach to minimize the sound if it's occurring. But the primary focus is making sure the dogs are relating in a way where they're not activated >> and alarming about things. There's >> some very expensive houses >> where they're feeling content and the play isn't >> in a zone that's soft, sweet, and fun. >> Most of our dogs sit around and hang out all day, but this, [clears throat] you know, for the dogs like your dog Molly is her name. >> That's my dog. >> Oh, your dog. Well, I'm sure when she plays it's mostly >> she's still reachable and she's not out of control. >> And so there's a way >> there's a way to help dogs understand if they're doing it out of enjoyment, enthusiasm to let them know that they shouldn't. And if there is a problem, there's definitely a way to understand what are you going through and you can respond in a meaningful way the same way you would if a person >> was alerting and concerned, >> right? >> Um there's subtle differences, but it's the same concept >> certainly. So that's the hack, Jason. When we work with your dogs, they think like you do. They're good people. They're socially brilliant. [clears throat and laughter] There's nothing they can't learn that you know about how to get along. So you're going to become a dog uh a dog whisperer once we get together. >> All right. I'll send my wife to you. They can do [laughter] it. >> Uh >> I mean, I think that's the biggest concern obviously we have is the local residents. I mean, based on the pictures and everything, there's a lot of noise there to begin with because that's a busy road. Um, >> yeah, we won't be loud. >> You know what I mean? That's a lot of gray noise kind of thing. >> I live six houses up from the lake on Crystal Bay. Okay. >> Um, we're not going to be as loud as the boats for the people on the water and we're not going to be as loud as shoreline. >> That's why I mean I think most of the residents probably have this vision of a bunch of barking dogs going nuts and that's, you know, I get it. That's that's a problem. >> That is I would not want to be anywhere near that. >> So, I get that. This image is a little deceiving because it really is very residential all the way around it except for in front on >> you know 15. >> Totally. I meant to really with this picture specifically emphasize us but yeah that is not a way to make it look like those aren't houses where the search bar is like they it is you know 150 ft away. >> All right. Any other questions for him? Okay. [clears throat] All right. You if you want to take a seat, you might want to come back up later. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, do we want to have Rita come back up and address? >> All right. >> Councilor, do you want to have Rita come up and so you can talk about that or >> is that something we should discuss tonight? Because I I feel like that should we [clears throat] should definitely consider what that's how that's going to impact. >> Do you want to do that first or do you want to hear from the residents? I can wait till after the residents too. >> Which one? >> Whatever. Whatever works. >> Let's Let's hear from the residents first. Okay. Um if anybody wants to come up uh and give us your opinion, come on up. >> All right. Can you give us your name and address? >> Uh Scott Ericson, 1840 Shadywood Road, Orno. [clears throat] So, I came here tonight because I I I actually own the buildings on each side. I'm a dog lover. Okay. >> Um but my problem is I've got super well behaved dogs and I I just know those are I mean running a business and having you know especially if the dogs are going to be outside a lot. I was wondering like are they inside? But 50 dogs going through there a day there's going to be dogs barking. I mean it's going to be loud. I mean 15 is not a busy it's it's I mean there's cars but it's not it's not noisy. I can sit outside on the phone. Um I think this is a far cry from Minneapolis and the noise and being in a neighborhood like that is, you know, as far as having the because I think of like um Hound Dog and Eden Prairie kind of across the street from Home Depot probably a similar situation. I don't believe those dogs go outside. Um you know, and then you have Subway out in the country. I think the one that's in Spring Park that's uh in the old carpentry shop next to Dairy Queen. I don't believe those dogs go outside cuz that's pretty close to um you know residential houses too but it is commercial on both sides but I don't believe those are ever outside. >> Um so anyways I my big concern is just >> the noise. Okay, >> you know and seeing and hearing that they are going to be outside a lot. He may be a dog whisperer but I just feel like there's no way you're training all those dogs. I I my dogs are extremely well behaved. I I'm with dog people all the time and even when my dogs are with their brothers and sisters and I have them with my buddies, they bark and they you know it's just they you know when you put them in that situation they get excited and bark. Um so and they are the same size. They're the same breed and my dog does not bark at home but you put her with friends and whatnot and they get excited. So I that's my that was my concern. I kind of wanted to hear it out and see how that was going to lay but >> excellent. Um, obviously somebody's going to be there, but I just >> the noise factor would be an issue for me. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Appreciate it. >> Does anybody else want to come up? >> All right. Can you give us your name and address? >> I'm Becky Hill from 4835 Bartlett Boulevard. And my driveway is exactly across from where the Bartlett entrance is for the parking lot, parking area for the employees for the concept plan um establishment. Um my question is how large is that run space at the back >> of the building? I think that's Bartlett right there um where the driveway comes in, right? the yellow arrow goes park or arrows to the um employee parking area. Um my driveway is exactly right across from that driveway entrance right there. So my >> how far is the dogard from the entrance to that? >> Um how large is the dog run area back there? >> Yeah, that's a good question. So this is a concept drawing and part of it is with that in mind is that may need to vary based on how far if we were to be there, how far should we be away would have to be into zoning um with a neighborhood committee or city council. Um so the drawing there is just to illustrate that it will not be shoved into the edge up there. So it's about >> the way that's drawn it's roughly 60 ft away from the curb. Um and that could be 80, that could be 50. Um you know our goal would certainly be to the target is to fit into the neighborhood. >> Yeah. Um, and that would be, you know, a big part of the process for us. What is reasonable for, you know, a budding a street that's right across from home. >> Thank you. Um, I'm concerned about the space there. Um, it seems to me the the entrance from into the parking area for the employees, that's a pretty small area. And now you're going to have that be employee parking plus a dog run area. And I I'm not seeing how that's going to >> Yeah, the angle >> fit very well for space >> drawing. Yeah, it's a good question. There's like seven spots there and we only have four people maximum at a time. So that'll work for us without it being crowded or I think it would meet parking standards. >> Yeah. >> Um but that would have to be addressed because it has to. >> Okay. Okay. It looked like there were four spaces like um adjacent to the dog run area and then four spaces on the street side on Bartlett's side. So >> uh that picture that yeah maybe shows the other angle. There we go. That shows a little more of what we be looking at. >> I really I don't see how that size-wise, you know, depending on the size of the dog run. I don't I don't see how that's all going to fit cuz right now they just have um several parking spots like four >> five parking spots along that tree line there. >> So um you know that's just my concern. Okay. >> Um and you don't know the size of that dog run area out there. Yeah, it's going to definitely it would be varying based on what the goals of the neighborhood are like you're saying and also um making sure that we have adequate parking. >> Okay. So, the noise definitely a concern and the space for that dog run area back there which is right across my the street from my driveway. So, um and then we do have currently there's a renter on one property that's um just to the east of us. So it would be out out the driveway here to the left. And they have a very large dog. It's a St. Bernard. A very large dog with a big booming voice. And any noise, any people walking, that dog is going to be barking. And so I'm concerned for that rancher as well. She's not here to represent herself, but you know, um it's going to be a disruption, >> J. So >> thank you. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> All right. Anybody else want to come up? >> I have one more question about >> Well, hold on. >> That's fine. >> Oh, >> are we done? [clears throat] >> Once I shut it down, I'm shutting it down. So, [laughter] okay. Uh okay. Do you have a question for who? >> For you. >> For him. Do you want to come back up, please? Sure. Um, I guess you bring up a good point in terms of the 40 or 50 dogs that you'll have a day. >> Yeah. >> And when I look at this, and I drive by this area all the time, it's not that large of an area. So, accommodating 40 or 50, would it be cars daily dropping off your dogs? >> It would be, no, it'd be more like during the week, it's about 80% daycare and then 20% boarding. Weekends are like 80% boarding, 20% daycare. So a boarding that shows up on a given day is one visit. Daycare would probably be, you know, morning and afternoon. Um so on a day where we had 50 dogs, I would say, you know, maybe 40 stops um times two. So maybe 80 within 10 hours. >> Okay. So how big is that dog run outside? And would you I mean you're not going to have all 50 dogs out yard at the same time, right? >> Uh probably not. But >> yeah, >> most of what we would do in that space is the dogs would be pretty much free to go anywhere they want. Um, typically, you know, if the weather's nice, well, I guess it's in the winter the burners and the St. Bernards want to spend the whole day outside and the malamutes and the pitbulls are hiding inside and then in the summer all the short tight fur dogs, you know, they're outside and the malamutes are in the AC. So, we don't usually get all of our dogs outside for long periods of time, but we don't restrict it. The the only thing we really focus on is treating the yard like inside. Like, you have to be calm, you have to stay in the social zone, can't get crazy, you know? So, that's more the focus is the behavior side. >> So, how I mean that visual is fine, but how big do you think that area is? I mean, to >> draw question. I believe I made it the yard the like the length towards the homes equidistant to the equidistant to the width of the back of the building. And so I think we have it in [snorts] one of the others, but I think that's about 40 by 40 [clears throat] or maybe 50 wide 40 towards the lake. And that's again that would be something we would you know it it could vary based on what makes the most sense if it this were feasible. >> Okay. >> And so the only time the dogs would be outside they would always be attended and they would out there >> you know other than the hours of 7:30 to 7:00 p.m. Monday through Friday and 8 to 6 on Saturday and Sunday. >> Yeah. Okay. You say you do board? >> We do. Yeah. >> So like [clears throat] you have someone staying there overnight or >> Not usually. On holidays we do, especially Fourth of July with fireworks. We just monitor it with Smart Home. >> Yeah. >> And most of our dogs sleep in the living room. We have kennels and crates for older dogs and dogs that don't want to be around others all night. Um but the baseline is cage-free and then we deviate based on what works for a specific dog. >> Okay. So, your dog would be snuggled up with friends. >> Yours might want their own space at night. >> Go hang out with the color. >> All right. Do we have any other questions for him before Rita? >> Okay. Thanks again. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks coming back up. >> No problem. So >> what areas >> the the PUD zoning [clears throat] you know if we had to do that how does that all work? >> So the the first element is that we would need to identify the use in the use table to say whether or not the use is allowed. Currently the use table does not include anything related to dog kennels, doggy daycarees. It does include an animal vet hospital um because obviously because we have one um but it specifically says in that definition that they um would not be allowed to have boarding. They can obviously board sick animals the vet hospital but not commercial kennel as part of it. So that was a that's a specific element we currently have. In order to have this use proceed, we would need to have a zoning amendment that added it to the use table. And then you would need to identify what districts it would be allowed in and whether you wanted it as permitted or permitted with standards or conditional. Um, and then if we did conditional, it probably would be good to identify what those kinds of conditions would be. Again, as I stated in the introduction, um, this is something that you add to the entire zoning district. And so you can't control um the location necessarily. You can say obviously you can evaluate and say well it doesn't meet the conditions. You aren't um able to meet those. Um and you also can't have it just for a particular use. So we have to really craft the conditions to make sure that we have um it being the way that you want it to be and that it has limitations whether those are hours of operation, amount of staffing, um additional amounts of parking, noise. I mean, that's those are the things that we would really want to think through. Um, if this moved forward and the applicant has applied, then staff would spend the time putting more effort into figuring that out. We haven't done that because of the way that we do the council introduction. We haven't spent staff time kind of researching, identifying precedents, trying to figure out what are things that you would consider. Um, the first element for you would be a zoning amendment to allow it. And then they would if you decided to make it a conditional use permit um they could simultaneously apply for the conditional use permit assuming the zoning amendment would be something that you would consider. That's why this reduction is helpful. Um because if it is something that we are going to consider that's helpful for them to know that they should put the time and effort in. Um even if you say tonight that you're not interested they could still apply and go through the process but at least they have a little bit more information about what the concerns were um so they could move forward with it. So, um, yes, ma'am. >> If [clears throat] it would if they went any place else in mound, we'd still have the same process. >> Correct. And that was an intentional hopefully you're okay with it. Intentional choice when we did all of the updates because we didn't have a conversation about this use and it is a primarily residential community. So, something we really want to be thoughtful and careful about where might it be allowed. So, you could still consider it and say that it's appropriate in another district it um if that's something that you wanted to because we obviously have mixed use districts and we do have a commercial district >> um and the industrial district. So, there's kind of four places it might um be appropriate. >> Mixed use >> and again this is mixeduse. >> This is mixeduse corridor. >> And we do in the use table have a differentiation between mixeduse downtown and mixeduse corridor. So you could say it differently in the corridor area as downtown. The corridor area again starts um south of downtown all along commerce. >> So by Lake Minnetonka flats kind of in that area. >> So the new if we had to do zoning amendment would that that would affect everybody on 15 down. >> Yes. I'm not sure which is the mixeduse corridor. >> Google not. [clears throat] >> So it's um this area that we're talking about and then um there's the little part on three points where the Elanon building is and then the other mixed juice corridor is on um 110 and um I think uh the city manager is going to try and pull that up for you so you can take a peek at that. Okay. >> Um going from Bartlett North >> to kind of the Our Lady of the Lake Church area. >> Oh, that's kind of where that's mixed corridor. >> Okay. >> Which most of that is held. >> It's January 2020 or August of >> Except for Gillespie in the church. >> Yeah. I found it this afternoon. So >> figured you might want to Yep. >> Let's see. Okay. So, >> this is the if we have the map up now if that's helpful. >> Yep. So, this is the property we're talking about. So, this entire area and then the other area is this. And then there is a tiny little piece on three points. Um yeah. [snorts] So those are the properties that would be impacted if >> Oh okay. >> [laughter] >> So if we wanted to entertain this then the challenge for staff would be to try and identify standards that would help you achieve what you're trying to achieve and limit the impact for a really big site or a big use of user if that's of concern for number of dogs or a number of people or those types of elements. So, we have to do all that first before it would go to like planning or whatever. >> So, the applicant would apply for a zoning text amendment. >> Um, and then staff would work on preparing what that would look like and um what those recommendations from a planning perspective would be and then the planning commission would hear it uh as part of the process. >> Okay. So, we don't >> it all kind of merges >> it. It could be done simultaneously rather than otherwise you could do it sequentially. So they apply for the text amendment and then you approve it and then they come back and apply and they can choose to do that for the actual if we if you wanted to go to the conditional use route. I [clears throat] don't I'm I don't know which way you're all thinking. So that direction today would be kind of helpful of like yes we think this is something that we should continue forward or like seems interesting seems but staff it'd be good if you when if you were asked these are the kinds of things we're concerned about and to think about. >> So the animal hospital >> it >> veterinarian or whatever >> they're separate >> but that's because it's technically like >> no boarding. We specifically have um an animal vet clinic in there and it the definition of it says that you cannot do commercial boarding as part of it. So, you know, when a dog is sick and they're at the vet hospital, all if you're paying for it, you're you're you want to get them home from the payment part of it pretty soon. And so, the dogs aren't going outside and standing in the yard. They're, you know, being cared for for a health reason. So, that's why [clears throat] they're handled separately. I know they got a little >> cart area. >> Yeah, they have a little area in there, but I >> Yeah, >> I mean I go to Jubilee a lot, but I don't >> never seen a dog out there. >> Seen issues with >> Yeah. And I, you know, when I where I had lived before, there was a animal hospital and they offered boarding and that was a whole different conversation. You'd come in, you'd board your dog there just like a regular boarding facility, but we specifically have it written for you that it doesn't include that just because of the proximity to all the residences. >> Okay. So that's why we wanted to treat this one and have this community conversation and make sure we were thoughtful about it if it was ever going to be entered into um in the city. >> Okay. >> How are you guys feeling on instructions to debate it on? >> You know, there's a lot more to learn about it and variables and resident neighborhood input, but I'm not against >> I'm not against it. >> Yeah. I like the business concept. I think it'd be an excellent business in our community, but I'm not sure about this site in the community. >> You guys, >> I mean, I like the concept. I like dogs. My dog doesn't bark, so but I do find it annoying when a dog does bark incessantly. And um and I know there's ways to control that and and ways to help mitigate the noise. Um my opinion is this is a very noisy area to begin with. I'm not sure. I've gone out there and stood around and to see. Um obviously [clears throat] as a homeowner I would be concerned. Um but I think you know this is an opportunity for us to bring in a viable business that could provide valuable services to some of our residents. Um, I know, you know, I don't have typically have someone that I, you know, I don't take Dakota to have her boarded anywhere. Um, but, um, you know, we are in an environment where it's extremely cold in the winter and I don't want to go stand outside, you know, but this would be a nice resource to be able to take a dog and let it go play or, you know, get some training, additional training. You know, maybe Molly could learn not to bark at everybody. But at the end of the day, this is a viable business and we want to support businesses. So, >> um I think we should look forward, you know, move forward and try to see what we need to do to make amendments and changes and control that. >> Okay. >> Council member, >> I I like the business model as well. I I think I would feel more I mean, it would definitely address that area could use some facelift down there. So, that would be attractive. I, you know, I'm more concerned about the residents. Um, at this point, we're obviously, uh, looking for great businesses and this business model is a really good one. Um, you know, and and this is, I know, early in the stages of design, so I'm sure you if we did cup or whatever we decide, we could make some of those decisions and the conditions. Yes, for sure. Just Yep. The only, as I said, the only thing we worry about is they are it seems like a great business model. There's no guarantee if you move forward that that's >> that's what you'll have. So then we need to try and craft conditions that make sure that other people that may apply with a similar idea are headed in the same direction for the protection. And that's the challenge of how do you write that in a way that does that. But I'm hearing that's the challenge we're given potentially. >> Well, I kind of echo what you said, too. I mean, it's I'd love to have a new business. Love to, you know, have more people driving through Mountain every day. Um, but it does really worry me with the the barking. I'm really really nervous about the barking and, you know, if I'm the neighbors, you know, in that area, that would get me. So, I what I would maybe suggest and I know you probably don't want to spend a ton of money on this, but until you get more of a green light, but you know, I know other places have done like noise studies, you know, and they sit out there with a decibel reader or whatever. Um, I'd be curious what that would be like. You know, what is a dog's decel? And then that road is is loud. I mean, I know it's >> loud. And I was just on it and I was stuck because there's a semi-truck >> backing up into the >> Yeah. >> thing and I was, you know, we're talking about, you know, 50 cars a day. I saw 50 cars before I could take a left. So So I 50 more cars doesn't bother me. The parking I think we can work that into the CUP, but the the noise I not even the smell bothers me because I don't think you're going to have us >> I mean we have dogs. I I I'm not worried about that. I don't think that's going to travel. Now, the dog's dander or whatever might travel to smell that like a chicken or something, but but I don't think the waste I don't think is >> Well, and he's not going to have a viable business if he doesn't keep it clean. I'm not going to bring my dog there if it smells bad and there's >> Right. >> Well, I mean, that's a business decision on his part, but >> the the the biggest thing that gets me is the noise. I I I think. So if somehow you can figure out how to remedy that and you know as you're going through the process of you know going through planning or whatever but um I I don't know I mean almost maybe I I don't know if people in the area want to drive all the way down to your other location and just you know feel it out or maybe have videos of like here's an hour worth of video. This is what our location looks like. So >> yeah, I could prepare something like that. And um that was my first thought. I'm actually taking a note to do that to do a decel test, >> you know, maybe during the farmers market this Saturday when people are around and things are happening. >> Yeah. >> Um to measure that sound. >> Yeah. >> And also the uh the fencing company that specializes in the sound. It's not soundproof. It's sound. It's like noise absorbent, you know, has some acoustic features, too. >> They're going to sell it the way they sell it. How good is it? right? >> You know, so I can I'm sure they have decel at least I can ask if they have, you know, some of the technical specs of how much it impacts noise. >> I just think if you know, if I'm a resident in that area and I bought a house and then all of a sudden this comes in, >> I need to feel really good about those answers. >> Personally, um at the same point, thank you for coming out and we want to see new businesses and >> thanks for giving me a chance to >> level work. So, um I think we're kind of going the CUP route if he wants to apply. Is that what it sound like? >> Yeah. I mean, we're not saying we've had the same kind of since it's been a few years now, but we've had different applications in the same format where we recommend people to just don't move forward with, you know, X, Y, or Z. But I don't think that's the case. >> I don't think we're saying don't. But I'm saying, you know, I think for me personally, like I'm not voting for it if if I can't get convinced that there's it just if I'm going to be in the neighborhood, you're just going to hear barking all the time. >> The noise side of it, >> it's just not going to fly. For me personally, I I think it's noise and parking is the two things that I wrote down, okay, >> out of this whole thing. So, if you can convince us that that's not a problem, [clears throat] >> maybe you got a deal here. But, um, remember this is a council introduction. So, you're just literally just kind of giving us your, you know, kind of first shot at it. Um, you know, technically people have come back a second time as like an introduction just to say, "Hey, I answered these questions. You know, do you do you think I should go forward?" We never really give like an okay like yes, we're going to approve it. obviously got to go through planning and then you got to come back to us again and then >> we would approve her tonight. But um I think we've a couple times we've seen people that have come back. >> What time would you like Molly to come over? >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah, we'll talk Jason with her and it'll be great. >> All right, I'll call. Well, anyway, um that's all we got for that. So, just work with our staff and they can kind of direct. I think those are really rational expectations given the nature of what we do and it's not really precedented. It's not what most places that are categorized like ours are like. So, I'll go do some homework here on some of these details about noise and you know, >> and again, if you'd rather come just talk to us quick before you spend a lot of time and energy and money going through planning and the whole works, we'd love to have you back out. >> Okay. Yeah, I think I'll do I'll try to do some homework on these really good points that were brought up and get more specific, you know, details using our first facility as like a you know, as a foundation. So, >> okay, thank you. >> You're welcome. >> All right, we're going to move on. Uh, number eight is mound business uh flagpole concept concepts. Um, is she going to take that? Hey, welcome. >> Hello. >> How are you? Nice to see you. >> I am good. Um, my name is Pauline. I am the owner of Midan Press in town. Yep. >> Uh, 2361 Wilshshire Boulevard, sweet A. Uh, we're located right in between the American Legion and City Hall. Um, and actually this past June, we we've been [clears throat] running that shop for four years. So, we've gotten to know the community, um, the businesses, and just kind of the area. So, one of the reasons why I'm here tonight is just to kind of talk about the Boulevard Banner program with Mound. Yeah. >> Uh, we've talked with Kathy a couple of times. Uh, Kathy has seen a few of our concepts >> and basically we just wanted to give you an introduction to the concept >> and answer any questions that you have and then also we have some design concepts that you we want you to review. Yeah. >> And kind of give us a direction of where you would like to go with the program. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, with Cathy's help, the banners themselves are 30 in wide and 80 in high. Um, we print them on an 18 oz blackout vinyl, high resolution double-sided graphics on both sides of the banner. Uh, there's a 2in double stitch pull pocket at the top and the bottom where they're attached onto the light poles. And then each one has brass grommets to keep the banner in place because of wind and u shuffling of the wind in the banner just so that they don't fly off. >> Um the imprint size on the banners are going to approximately be about 30 in wide by 20 in tall and that is for business logos or a business imprint their name. Um the banner concepts that we have come up with they would be up for a full year or so 12 months and then they would be switched out. All of the cost is based on um businesses and people sponsoring a banner in order for the program to be successful. when we do identify the banners, the polls that we do want to start with. And I think Kathy and Ryan, um, a great suggestion was to start in the center maybe and then kind of work our way out a little bit to see what kind of a um, reaction we get from the business owners, what kind of support we get because we really need the business owners and the community to support the program in order for it to be successful. if we don't have that buy in, the concept won't work. So, we've ran the program in Spring Park. We're starting our third year and it's been successful and we've had some really, really good feedback from Spring Park. >> So, we're hoping to bring that over into the mound area. >> Yeah. >> The other thing I wanted to make sure that you knew is that we just don't take a pretty photo, throw it up on a banner, and say, "This is what we have for this year." We really look at the area. Who are the people? Who are the businesses? What is the feel? You know, what do we want to do with the banners? Why are the banners there? You know, it's just not a pretty picture. So, we put a lot of thought into the concepts. Um, spring parks are completely different. Mounds are completely different because the areas, even though you have a hard time telling when you drive through one and into the other, um, the areas are very different. Um, so I'm going to hand these out to each one of you. And [clears throat] basically, um, there are three concepts and you just want to take the concepts and lay them out side by side. Let's see here. >> Okay. So, the very first one at the top of your pile um is basically the theory behind it is community, family, and fun. And one thing that I've really got to appreciate about the Mount Area is the people. The people are amazing. The people are down to earth. The people are very, very creative and very businessoriented. So that was one thing that kind of really stuck in my head as how do we define mound? What is mound all about? So that's kind of where that concept came from. >> So in here what we do is we have kids running and playing. We have a group that could be young adults sitting down enjoying themselves. we have potentially business owners, maybe corporate, maybe you know um older population and then the yellow we have a retiree couple with they're walking their dog. So basically it's really a cross-section of a community and a community that is basically it's all about family and fun. It's a warm welcoming area. So this second piece of paper that you have in here is more about lake life. And this there's only one because you pretty much with concepts you can have one design repeated or [laughter] you can have variations of designs repeated to give it a little bit more color and a little bit more depth. But this is an also another idea. It'd be the same banner. The only difference would be is different businesses would have their imprint at the bottom, but it would be the same one all the way through. The third concept is taking that same look, but then adding seasons to it. So, we're taking the same image, but we're putting a little few different colors to it. And basically, it's just another idea or a concept, but really what we're looking for here tonight is kind of a direction that you want to take the program in so that we can go back and take that concept and move it forward. So, I guess I'm right now I'm looking for your feedback. >> Okay. Does council have any feedback? Well, one thing I I want to mention too that might help manage everybody's expectations is spring carts banners are almost 7 feet high >> and we don't have that uh height. We only have 50 in. So, you [clears throat] know, I'm just trying to help you imagine that ours will not be as in your face as Spring Parks cuz the theirs are really really tall. I thought they were 30 by 80 that I missed here. This is 30 by 50 >> or 30 inches wide. >> I think it's 22 by 50, isn't it? >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> Well, I' I've never been able to see the Navar ones, but that's just my vision issue. >> Um question I had though is um >> how many mound businesses have signs in Spring Park? Because I know there are some mound I know, >> right? We there are quite quite a few Mound businesses that have sponsored a Spring Park banner and the reason they've sponsored a Spring Park banner was because at the time Mound did not have that program. >> Yeah, I understand that. >> And then also the traffic that goes through a Spring Park on a daily basis in the morning. [clears throat] You know, we all know the traffic levels at different times of the day right through Spring Park. So that's also another reason why the mound businesses have sponsored those banners. I really like the the third like the third page and like the different seasons and stuff, but is there I kind of wish that like our logo was on the top instead of just like Mound or is that on purpose? >> We did that on purpose so it wasn't competing with the business that's going to sponsor it. >> Okay. >> So, um >> like you don't want the City of Mound logo on top, >> right? Because basically what happens then it just takes away from everything else that's going on or there's too much going on. visually and you don't see anything on the banner. >> Okay. >> So, it's really a design >> park. I know like they're I know they're hu they're a lot bigger, but like I think that most cities like they have their city logo on the top and the business on the bottom. >> So, Spring Parks, we only put their name on the side and we we want it. We don't put their logo on it at all. >> Okay. >> Because it just it's too much visually from a design perspective. There's just too much on the banner. >> Okay. I figured the city logo wasn't on it for a reason. I was just kind of >> Yeah. >> curious. I like the last page. I guess my personal opinion better than the first the first one. >> I I like that page, too. I I don't love mound >> curving over the sun. I I think I'd rather just see it bolder just on top, >> you know. >> Okay. >> Um and then I'd like to see spring >> springier, >> you know, like >> springier. But >> I like this too. and >> and I like that you're allowing a lot more space for the business logo. >> I think that's going to enhance them wanting to buy in. >> That's a little bit of my concern with um Spring Park because they really don't have a whole lot of space, you know, and if I were a business, I'd want to maximize my my logo. So, I I like that you've amped that up. >> So, like the third page gives more room. >> Well, it's almost like a third. Yeah, >> a little over a third rather than >> Do you know the size? >> It's 22 by 50 >> that Spring Park has for this. >> Well, you would know. >> Um, I don't have the dimensions with me, but they are a little over six feet tall. They're huge. >> I mean, just for like the the business logo part, >> the imprint for them. Um, it is bigger than the 30 by 20. It is bigger, but I don't have the number. I don't know it off hand. >> I guess what I think what what we're saying is yeah um >> Oh wow. >> There's the miss there. Um >> I think maybe not bigger is better but having it so they you can actually read it when you're going 30 miles an hour, >> right? >> Cuz like even that like you know I'm going through them and I'm like >> I mean they're beautiful. I love them but like miss being a little bit bigger like for us like I think is good, >> right? Like >> so what happens with the imprints is it really depends on their logo and their approval of the logo. >> Okay. >> So before we actually go ahead and printed that we sent a proof with the logo to the business. The business gave us their we want it bigger, we want it smaller. Okay? >> You know I want it this color I want that color. They approved it >> and then we went ahead and we printed it. >> Okay. >> So a lot of times we're taking, you know, it's what does the logo look like? Is it vertical? Is it horizontal? What was approved? What does the business want to see? >> Okay. >> Um, so we take a lot of that into account. And naturally, because of size, location, direction, speed, some logos pop really, really good and others don't. >> And it's just something that we deal with. But we work with the business owner on a case- by case basis. And in some points we even recommend the business owner don't put their logo on it but put their name of their business on it because we can get it bigger and bolder. >> Do you do that as well? >> Nope. >> Okay. >> No. Why is that has a complete separate program that um they tie into their um >> chamber chamber. Thank you. >> So I do love why as well [laughter] but I like yours because it's a bigger I can actually read it. >> Yes. like and I'm sorry but if I'm a business I'm like I want to be able to like actually see my business name on there. >> So like you're actually going to get business out of this or why are we even doing it? >> So my question is getting back to Spring Park and Mound. Um do we think that Mound businesses will do banners in both Spring Park and Mound or are we going to be stealing back our businesses from Spring Park to come to Mound? >> That's what we're going to find out. Yeah, [laughter] >> you're going to win. >> That's what we're going to find out. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Well, [clears throat] Spring Park only has like 20 banners and we would have a hundred could up to a hundred, >> right? >> Well, yeah. Yeah, that's the other question is I mean is is there a potential of having too many? We we did talk about that a few times. >> Yes. And because also as I look at the streets, you know, um from which I see sort of our center uh commerce and Lakeshore Drive being the center and signs emanating. Well, once you go west of of commerce, it's only one block before you hit residential. And I suspect we won't go into the residential areas with the banners. And the same thing when you go north on commerce, you've got one block to Tonka wood. You might have four banners in that area, but after that it becomes residential. Now commerce going south and um shoreline going what is that? East. You know, there's more length and more commercial. So how do we balance that? >> I think the banner holders are already there, right? >> Yeah. And I'm not talking about the banner holders. Oh, >> I'm just saying that, you know, do you do you put commercial banners in a residential street? If I have a house on commerce, you know, past Tonka and Elm, do I want a a business banner on the pole in my neighborhood? >> Well, the identified polls I worked with Ryan and they're all >> I mean, obviously starting after the bridge on 15 and then 110, but none of them go into the residential. >> Yeah, those don't. I'm I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about when you get to to the intersection at Commerce when you're going north from um >> uh I none of those see that's where I live. >> None of those were identified on on the >> So we're looking at really just 15. >> Yeah. And Okay. >> And 110 going up to the school. >> Going up. >> She's talking about Jubilee to >> Well, see, yeah. Going up to the school, you're going to residential area. She thinks that's a residential, which it is because they're both sides, but >> those are indicated, but a lot of those poles are out of they can't be used because of visual impediments like trees overgrowing or whatever. >> It's like after the library or grand view, they're just >> some of those are already taken out. But but again, as Pauline mentioned, you know, starting at the interior, moving out, >> focus on that. And you need to have x amount of business. See, I could see I can see 15 because that's all commercial. It's open there at the trees to encumber, but I just do have concerns about into the more residential areas putting the banners. And I know you all like number three. To me, three is is too busy. And um and if I was a business, I don't know that I'd want all that busyness. Um, you know, the colors are bright and everything, but um, but still I think it's just too busy, too many things in design. Uh, but I do like the business being on the bottom. >> Okay. >> I think that it's more noticeable and readable if it's on the bottom. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Um, I think the only comment I have I I like the look and feel of this. I'm concerned about this seasons thing because I get what you're trying to do color-wise and everything um and graphically, but um I'm not sure that that's going to get I think to Sherry's concern, it does get a little busy. >> Um and we're not going to be changing these seasonally, >> right? >> So, >> we're not. >> No, I thought they going up and they stay up for a year, right? >> Oh, yep. They're one year. So, it's not like we're going to put them all up and they're all going to be summer and then during the fall they're all going to be fall and then they're during, you know, winter they'll be all winter and um so it will get very busy if we have all these different colors. >> Yeah. >> I mean, we're going to have a rainbow going on down up and down. >> And what what happens when the Christmas decorations go up? >> Yeah. I mean, it's going to get a little bit crazy. Um >> she's talking about something like >> talking about doing all four of these at the same time. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> I thought it was like quarterly. No, >> I know this is maybe No, I mean I >> I get, you know, when you have one standing alone here, this graphic looks great. >> Um I'm like, how do we keep it simple? >> Simple. >> So like maybe >> Well, this is going to look a lot simpler >> up. Yeah, I know. When she held it up, >> you just kind of see ways like I like this concept. Maybe if it was a actual true images with, you know, like a duo tone or, you know, an actual image rather than just a line drawing, you know, maybe a black duo tone or meo tint or something of a actual picture of people in which one are you talking about? The first one in the front or showing you this has >> Yeah, I like this one too, but I think it needs depth. >> A lot of potential. Yeah, it's a little less busy. It's >> a little less, but if the lines were maybe a little thicker or something, so there are more definition. >> I don't really like the line drawing, but maybe you could go back to concept stage and maybe try a couple that are actual photographs, you know, that are just over printed over the color. And the line drawing to me feels >> I like the community and the family and the fun because I mean movement is always important in graphics and >> you know I think that kind of creates movement and they'll bounce from you know from pole to pole you know >> and I'd almost like to see it flip because I do like businesses on the bottom. >> I do. Yeah, I agree with that. >> Yeah. Okay. Do we have to have family in every single one or can we do a family a picture of like the lake and a boat the picture you know do four different themes instead of all >> community right >> I mean family is great but >> it might depend on your business too like a grocery store might do family whereas right >> u Harrison Bay might do the seniors and you know I don't know who else >> well I think the project is up to you to sell I think you're just asking for [laughter] us to kind of look at concept and then run with it um >> right But I kind of like this one too. But I don't like the line drawings. I'd rather see something a little more graphic. >> This feels kind of I don't know 19, >> not a fun vintage. >> Okay. Okay. So, one of the reasons why we didn't put actual photographs on is because then we get into the controversy of age, >> race, >> occupation. I mean, we get into so many other variables >> that in a community, >> we're trying to stay in the gray area. So that >> what we the feedback that we get is we love them, they're wonderful, we can't wait for the next concept for the following year. >> So that was one of the reasons why we kind of went away from actual photos, but we can go back and put actual photos in and then bring it back and have you take a peek at it if you would like. Is it a or is it like a silhouette type thing where it's like for example the seniors with the dog, you know, if you flipped them around and you saw them from the back then you, you know, erase the erase the, you know, you can't really tell what age they are and the dog isn't, you know, biased, >> right? But then you're looking at their tushies. >> Yeah, exactly. >> They kind [laughter] of look old. They're a little bit over. >> Put a coat on them so you can't see their fishies. >> I like the waves and boats. >> I agree. The waves and boats better. >> Yeah. focus on the big picture community. But >> yeah, the community and I think, you know, throwing a few in with family. I mean, to her point, Jubilee is going to want >> a family. >> Family. Yeah. >> But they won't really have >> like the crearyy might want kids. You know, >> you know, I mean, on the graphic, >> I'm going to want to >> I think they look good though. I like >> Yeah, I mean, I like that. >> It'll be nice to have them. >> They're going in a good direction. >> Yeah. So, the other thing is um so Spring Park, did you notice the banners the first year? >> No, but I noticed they were like the bonfirey kind of like the seasonal change. >> They were uh we went with primary red, yellow, blue, and green. >> I loved those >> Crayola color. >> Yep. >> Primary colors. And then we staggered them through. And we did that on purpose the first year because we really wanted to go out with a bang. We wanted people to notice them as they were driving through. >> The second year we decided to go with just one image and that image is repeated through all the way and it's a little bit more subdued. It's the green um aderonduct chair with the fire and the stars in the sky. >> Yeah. Good. Um, so you so if you kind of remember back to the first year and then going through now with the same image on all the banners, you kind of get an idea of what this versus one kind of looks like >> in your kind of that that's probably the best way I can explain or maybe jog it in your memory a little bit. >> Yeah, because we can they can always be changed too like as time marches on. I mean, we're not like locked into one design forever. >> No, we're locked in for one year, though. >> For 12 months. >> Yep. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I like the primary colors. I mean, I think it works well with our flags. And since we've got the US flag flying >> that are going to be not competing, but you know. >> Okay. >> Primary colors are plain and concise. >> Okay. So, then what I'm hearing, I want to make sure I've got this correct. Um are we so we like this concept? >> Yeah. And you know if you go back to that side >> I don't like it. >> I don't like it as it is >> visually. Yeah. >> You know if you see >> they're very visual >> something like that instead of all those lines. >> I like that. I just big logo. >> Yeah. >> I like that more. >> So that has no figure. It's just I could see going that direction because then you're really just seeing color and >> an implied happiness from activity. >> Okay. >> But you're really focused on the >> plus you can use this to do even mound things or >> you know like half the [clears throat] boat sailboat you know that kind of thing. >> Okay. I am a little worried about the picture thing. And seriously, you probably all don't get the emails I get, but I I know I'm going to get an email. I just know it. So, if >> about the pictures, >> well, if we pick it doesn't matter what it looks like. Someone will say it looks doesn't look like me. So, >> well, no, but I think we No one was supporting the pictures, right? >> No, they want to do an actual picture. >> We wanted to move away from the lines. >> Not an actual picture, but an implied >> movement. It doesn't have to be people of mount, just an implied movement. >> As you said, the back of somebody walking a dog on a trail. >> Yeah. I mean, this graphic that you just showed us on the phone, which I know everyone can't see. It's >> it's nondescript. It's not. >> You could have a graphic of someone walking a bicyclist. >> Yeah. Or a biker. >> Kind of like what you'd see >> the back of them, not showing any. >> Looks like a leopard, but it might not be a leopard. It's a zebra. Yeah. >> What if they're six foot [laughter] versus 5'5? >> Well, the whole world is taller than me. So, >> I'm just saying. I'm just saying. [laughter] >> Well, I think we'd all get a lot of >> Yeah. >> emails, but again, you it's a vetted interest of you >> to make sure that you make people happy. >> That was the one you were showing. >> Well, I was just saying like just an implied >> Yeah, I like [laughter] >> rather than >> I do like your other one. >> I do like that. >> Yeah. With the lake >> cuz then you're just to be on there. We don't want >> So that and then the other ones. >> I mean, I like that the best probably >> this one. >> Yeah. I like the >> Yeah, I like those better. >> I like I like those a lot. I think the waves are a little aggressive, but >> I think it's too much. Too many too [clears throat] many things. >> We don't I don't think we have white caps. Well, sometimes we have white, >> but when you're when you're far back, they're just implies water. >> I think those are great. >> Yeah, I do like those a lot. >> Um, >> so we're kind of split. >> Well, we only need three votes. So, [laughter] >> which side who's who's likes what? >> [laughter] >> So, what concept do you want us to work a little bit farther on? >> I think the primary >> your left or my left. >> I'm I'm >> Yes. But I'm >> I don't think me and Sherry aren't on the same page. I say yes to that one. >> Okay. >> Because it's too many colors. It's too confusing. >> No, >> you have too many things to try and focus on. >> And you're driving 30 miles an hour. >> You want >> It just says M and this is a logo of the business. You want the business name to pop out. >> So I say Sherry says right >> I prefer more color >> myself. I I like all colors because >> you know if we have Well, you'll decide how many you have, but I I could see either one of them being graphically appealing. >> Okay. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> When you say primary >> just go a different direction. >> My limit is I can read that but I can't read >> red, orange, yellow. [laughter] But do you like left or right? >> Colorwise, >> what do you want her to work on so she comes back with some other ideas? >> I want Saigon. >> Saigon. [laughter] >> I think I'll send it to her. >> I think she knows what she knows. >> I think that side could be really easy on the eyes just because you're going to see color. >> Yeah. >> A a graphic and then the logo. >> Okay. Can Can we tone down the left side a little bit so it looks more like the right side but keep it waves and >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So I God hasn't said anything. >> Who's talked to the [laughter] >> He doesn't get a You'll hear from me. >> Yeah. >> Unless you're infringing on copyright. He's not gonna [laughter] >> Yeah. So my question is we've we we're talking as a council about this as ornamentation for the city of mound but the expectation is that our businesses is anyone do we have any sense are they interested in this are they willing to do it and what's the launch date is it 2026 June or >> I think that's she says six months find last time we talked >> right so when we started spring parks it took us really six months to do the leg work to >> it was a lot of education for the businesses in the community and then also working with um the spring park the city hall also. >> Um and then also we were into the program for the first time before and so we made a lot of mistakes you know in that process we corrected mistakes we re-engineered a few things a couple of times. Uh we ran a test. We actually took printed some test banners, hung them up for a period of time to make sure that the material was durable enough and that the area wasn't too windy. So that process took about six months really before we could really launch and really sell the banners. And one when we did launch it, the businesses really responded to the designs that we had um kind of introduced to Spring Park and what they had prop what they had accepted and approved and we moved forward with it. They really resonated with them and they absolutely loved the idea and the concept. Being that now we have two cities side by side, um we don't know how the businesses are going to respond. Uh we don't know if they're going to stay with Spring Park because of the traffic or if all the businesses are now going to come to Mound because they're actually located in Mound. We don't know. >> There's not that many. >> It's like 15 or 20 polls. >> There's quite a few. >> There's not that many. >> So she she knows. >> I'd like to know the number, but there I don't think there's that many as I drive down the road. >> Okay. Well, that's >> wrong. But >> yeah, that's a good I think there's many of Mound residents or businesses left to prospect. >> Oh my gosh, >> there's a lot. >> And I I like that you you have an understanding of what you've done in Spring Park and maybe there'll be some nice collaboration between the two. >> Also to make them look completely different than for each year, >> right? >> You know, you're pitching. >> So, Spring Park has approved theirs and I brought Do you want to see what they're doing? >> Sure. Sure. >> Sure. >> Is it public? >> Uh, >> did they approve it like in a live meeting? >> It's approved. >> Yeah, they approved it. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Mike approved it. [laughter] >> Mike or the council? >> Okay. Whatever. >> I like this. >> Mayor can't operate alone. >> Oh, yeah. >> Mark. >> This is much cleaner based on their colors. This is kind of >> I get it. I like this concept. >> Cool. >> Yeah. See, I like that. The wagon. >> This is where it's sort of >> the bicycle. >> The dog, >> the fishing hook. Those are nice. >> Just need one that has cats on it. [clears throat] >> I'm not a cat person, but it's okay. [laughter] >> Well, you didn't see the picture that Debbie sent me. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, >> this is very well done. I do like this. I like the colors. >> Simple graphics. >> The simple graphics. Yeah. >> Thank you. [laughter] >> This is more my taste, but that's just >> Yeah. >> We were originally saying that in Mound, no offense to Spring Park, but we want Mound businesses. >> Yeah. >> In our polls, we don't want Spring Park, >> right? >> Or Min. We want M. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> So then, so we do get businesses that are located in St. Bonnie or they're located in Watertown or they're located in Long Lake. So, are you telling me that we could only accept mountain businesses on >> the original intent, right, is that we want to help mount we're Mountain City Council. We're not Spring Park. We're not >> So, is it is it business? >> But there is a benefit to having a beautiful banner with our logo on the pole >> like Gillespie has a banner in Spring Park. >> Yep. Would we rather have them come? I mean emphasis on mountain businesses but it's like >> the point of this business we want to support mountain businesses we don't want to I don't care about St. But wouldn't you rather have a banner? [laughter] >> I do. I love them. But >> you would think the point of this statement is to >> This is Yes. Does that change something for you? >> Can you prospect enough mound people? >> It does change because then if anybody outside of the mound area wants to sponsor, I would have to tell them no. >> Right. >> Um but they could sponsor one in another area if they wanted to. >> Yeah. I would rather still allow other businesses to do it so that we have banners up versus being like, "Well, if you're not in Mound, we're going to have just the banner holder empty." You know what I mean? >> Yeah. We launched a program by Mound. We We launched a program to buy in our community. I think we should stick with it. >> I want to stay with Mountain >> Personally. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> If if you want to come, you know, if it's just failing, then whatever. But >> we can readjust, but I think we stick with Mountain first. >> Okay. and then hopefully sell them out. >> Okay. Okay. So then what I would like to do is I would actually go like to go out and talk to a bunch of mountain businesses. >> Yeah. >> Um but one of the things that we found out over the last 3 years is that before they will sponsor a banner, they want to know what the banner is going to look like. They want an actual see an image. >> Sure. >> So before I can go out to the businesses, I need a direction. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I think we we said left. >> No, you said left. [laughter] >> I got three and two if Scott doesn't vote. >> I don't Who's saying three and two. >> I like I like this one, but I can't copy it. >> Yeah, but but you could do a similar thing with an illustration or a implied image with just a simple graphic, >> like a stock image. >> I like I like a simple big graphic. >> Okay. as opposed to >> it's busy >> everything going on there. >> Okay. >> So, make one a lake, make one a Yeah. >> kid on a bike. Make, you know, a cartoon. >> Our parks, >> make one, you know, >> the farmers market booth. >> Farmers market. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um, >> and I don't love the colors on that one. I'd rather see it in the greens, oranges, >> the primary. >> Yeah. Just something that's clean and >> Okay. easy to read. >> Okay. So, I'm hearing lake farmers market >> boats. Um, >> bikes. >> Bikes. >> Bikes and like maybe a picture of the like a black uh >> trail like the path. >> Okay. >> So, bike and trail would be on the same one. >> Yeah. >> Like a bike going on the trail. Like in other words, Dakota Trail. >> The big things we have is the bike. We have the farmers market. We have celebrations, you know. >> Uh, Spirit of the Lakes, you could do like a firework one. >> Mhm. >> Firework banner. >> Okay. >> Um, yeah. >> No boats. >> Fishing. >> Fishing. >> Yeah. >> Fishing. Boats. I don't know. Why would >> Would you prefer fishing or would you prefer a boat? >> Boat. >> Boat. Boat. Really? >> Okay. And then do you would prefer a boat over lake? >> Yeah. How about a boat on a lake? >> Okay. >> I prefer simple like a graphic that just you right away understand what it is. It makes you happy. >> Just feels like mound. >> No uh surfboard boats. >> Well, I think you I think a lot of people would [clears throat] love surfboard boats, but I wouldn't get that destroying >> intentional. I would keep it a lot more. >> Um >> I get it. >> All right. So So you're going to work on that. You're going to come back one more time. >> If you want me to come back to the council and and pitch the new >> kind of the final. I think we should approve the final final before you start >> and hear what hear what you're hearing from the businesses. >> No, she's going to get a final first and then she's going to go to the business and say, "Hey, we can do this with your logo on it." >> Right. >> And then get an indication, >> right? Because one of the first thing the businesses say is, "What are they what are they going to look like?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, you're going to get that first. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Thanks for all your appreciate. >> Thank you. You guys have a great evening. >> All right, see you. >> All right, number nine, we got MS for presentation. >> Thanks, Brian. >> Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Brian Simmons, you are senior city engineer. >> Uh, good news. This presentation doesn't require you to make any decisions right now. >> Okay. All right. >> Yes. Are you sure you don't want our input on the colors? >> We'll we'll get to it. >> Uh, you know, I'm an engineer and we like our acronyms. Uh, so [clears throat] Mound is an MS4. That's what we're doing here tonight. Uh, >> that sounds like a gang member to me every time I read the MS4 thing. >> Sounds like >> Well, if I could go back and strangle whoever the state was that came up with MS2. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it's on my license plate out in the parking lot. uh municipal separate storm sewer system. Uh there's a couple of ways that a community becomes an MS4. Uh mound is uh well we would be regulated as an MS4 two ways because of the impairment of the lake and because of our proximity to the metro area. Uh and the third way is that a community can be petitioned. And so there are a number of MS4s in in the state that are required to do what we're doing tonight and that is to hold a public meeting about all the things we do as a municipal separate storm sewer system uh at the end of this presentation. We will hold an open forum in case there are any comments. Um actually do we need to convene that as a hearing? I believe we do, don't we? >> Yeah, it was noticed as a hearing. Yep. Maybe my my mistake. So that will officially be a hearing that we will need to open at the end of this. Um and I can obviously stand for any questions. >> Um >> topic. >> So that's where we would get input if there is any. >> Uh and then the bulk of this is intended to be education on where we have been, what we are doing. Um I've heard it a couple of times tonight. You've heard it from me before at this microphone. But one of the things that we are as a community is stewards of the lake. And that also means stewards of the rainwater, the storm water that falls in our community is conveyed through our storm sewer system or in some cases could be discharged into our storm sewer system and then in almost all cases in mound eventually ends up in the lake. Go ahead, Jesse. I kind of covered this already uh but section 208 of the Clean Water Act establishes MS4s. I don't know that it establishes the acronym, but here we are. Uh and then as a as a community there, Mound meets the requirement of an urbanized area. Uh and then another uh acronym that we like to throw at you all the time, BMPs, best management practices. Uh that is intended to encompass uh sort of the everchanging and ever evolving things that we do in an attempt to be that better steward of the lake and of the water as it passes through. Sometimes that is things like the saffle baffle, the St. Anthony Falls Laboratory. Uh the devices that we put underground, the things that we do to capture the first flush or the things that we do to capture, you know, floating materials off the top of that storm water as it passes through the storm sewer system. So, best management practices encompasses both uh some of the maintenance activities that Ryan and his Ryan and Dustin and their crews do as well as things that we engineer and install as part of the city's projects or we require development projects to install as well. a SWIP, a storm water pollution prevention program. That is also a requirement. Uh a SWIP is a term that gets thrown around a lot both uh we have one as a city citywide and then anytime someone performs construction including ourselves, we have to have a SWIP for that that project or for that disturbed area. So there's a lot of rules around SWIP the regulatory mechanisms educational programs uh but things for reducing and eliminating that pollution uh or you know conveyance of sediment things like that into the lake. So our commitments the things that we are required to do and report back to the MPCA public education and outreach that's part of what we're doing here tonight. Also, uh, some of the things that are in the newsletter. Some of the things we have like Carlson Park and that educational piece over there with the storm sewer system, uh, and the little educational signs showing showing what the different pieces of that. Um, there's a like a rain garden there and a an above ground treatment area in Charleston Park. The public participation and involvement that is also part of what we're doing tonight is soliciting feedback. Uh, we put this out here on an annual basis. And then also the illicit discharge, detection and elimination. That is something that uh we are always on guard for. Usually that is public works executing on that or public works in conjunction with engineering. Construction site storm water runoff that is executed through our permits a little bit with Sarah's help and also a lot again with public works and engineering. And then post construction storm water management ensuring that you know piles of dirt get covered up, things get um off to a good start growing and we don't have lots of bare dirt being washed away. And then the the good housekeeping for municipal operations, making sure that through our own actions we are not inadvertently, you know, discharging uh like having the fabric structure over the salt storage for the winter salt that we use for plowing. That is one of our best practices. That's not required of us. However, if we let that pile of salt sit there and get rained on, it would get a lot harder to use and also that would wash a bunch of chlorides into the lake and that's very bad. So, it's a it's a good practice for us to not allow that. Um, I mentioned the newsletter also uh presence at Spirit of the Lakes where I'm sure a lot of people got to see those boards that we had out there. That's that's been a very good educational opportunity. Keep going, Justin. this annual meeting uh the cleanup day held in May. Uh also it's mentioned a little further on in here, but uh I know there was a lot of conversations that were had around the uh rain barrel program. I know there's a lot of education that has happened. People that surprisingly got into that, purchased those and when they showed up to pick up their rainarrel, they they got a side of education with that. You know, they got to learn how they were participating in this program along with us. So the illicit discharge detection and elimination sort of deputizes us as the city to observe and report uh and assist in you know essenti I'm going to say prosecuting but I don't mean that in the Mr. Lansman sense of the word but trying to prevent those types of you know illegal things. Um, those are great pictures that just I hope make everybody cringe, but the guy with the oil can right pouring it into the catch basin. >> What's that? >> Barefoots and the oil. >> Yeah, there's maybe more than one thing going on there. >> The longer you look at the photo. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I have notes for sure. >> Those your feet your feet. >> Not No, not a live picture from mound either. Stock photography. Thank goodness. >> [clears throat] >> uh but training the public works staff to identify these things. You know, if we see an oil slick in a storm sewer, we're going to investigate. And so, um following through on those things and trying to identify that, report it, and prevent it. You know, ultimately the goal here is prevention. Construction site runoff. Uh this happens in a number of ways and in coordination with Minihaha Creek. [clears throat] Um couple of examples there. You see some biolog in the bottom picture and some silt fence in the upper picture. I'm sure you all are painfully aware of those devices because we've had them all over town at various times when we're working on our own projects. We also uh have to execute by example here and our own city projects always have a fairly strong component um of erosion control but also we leverage that onto other contractors doing things within the city. Uh and so then we provide inspection of those. Uh we also provide a Bolton Bank at least provides you all inspection services both of our own construction projects and uh construction projects that are executed in the city by others and we're looking for that you know erosion and sediment leaving the site looking for you know stockpiles that need to be covered or have uh turf established so that they're not washing away. There is actually a a certification for that. Um, I finally let mine lapse, but we have a whole fleet of people at Bolton Bank that have that certification that usually do those inspections. Uh the post construction storm water management is really the followup from those construction activities. Making sure that uh things that were designed to meet water rules for the wershed uh such as offsetting um lots of pvious area you know they require a certain amount of treatment in storm water or trying to bring a site back to pre-development conditions in terms of how much storm water we release. So depending upon the size of the site and what is possible, you know, sometimes that's a rain garden, sometimes that's a sump manhole, sometimes it's it's nothing if it's a very very small site and it doesn't trigger any of those rules. Uh but we also inspect and follow up on those things and those practices are sort of inherent in the city's permitting processes and in the wershed's permitting processes. Uh requirements for post construction storm water have increased. This has gotten more and more strict. The current MPDS permit requires retention on site of a volume equal to 1 in times the newer reconstructed impervious surface. So when I first started doing this, it was pretty lax and that is starting to become a decent amount of volume. What that means is that when when we take a you know an open green piece of property and we develop something or we build something we now have to capture that volume of 1 in of rain over that multiplied times the impervious surface and that's not a small amount in some cases. So that's a fair amount of storm water treatment that is happening on site and that we are integrating into city projects. So right now as we're wrapping up the design for the water treatment plant, we are looking at ways to integrate that into that side. U Miniha Creek has similar rules. Yeah, I'm I'm good. Jesse, you can stay there. So pollution prevention, good housekeeping, you know, uh we do a lot of things I think that are specific to lakeside cities, you know, when we decide to sweep and how often we sweep streets or how often we are directing other contractors to sweep streets. So we have what what we call an enhanced street sweeping program. Uh some of the other you know snow management stuff about how and when we remove snow or how and where we use salt is very important in relation to where the storm sewers are. Uh having that training to all of the public works staff or available even if they don't have the certification. Uh, and then you know just the things that are part of conducting public works that might seem sort of mundane that actually are required by this process but we you know Ryan's guys would do anyway like pumping out the sump manholes that collect that sediment. You know we've talked about a couple of those in here before related to specific areas in town but that activity is required of us as an MS4 and to execute on our sweat. So the uh system assessment improvements and maintenance you know they require that we are constantly assessing our system looking at its efficacy and you know anywhere we are building something new trying to integrate these practices into those. So you've heard us talk at the microphone before during storm sewer projects or street projects about whether or not we can integrate inline treatment or those you know the f the saffl baffles those types of things. Um and then again that maintenance on the system is also part of this looking at what condition are our storm sewers in. Are we conveying storm water or are we just spreading it all over the place? You know, we wanted to go in pipes that are in good condition, that aren't cracked, that aren't leaking, that aren't causing an issue uh at the shoreline or, you know, allowing sediment to be transported downstream and causing a plume into the lake even if it's naturally occurring. So the program history, there's a couple of fun stats in here. We have 141 outfalls. So an outfall we we classify as a storm sewer outlet from a system to the lake. So that could be two catch basins across the street and then a flared end section going out to the lake. That can be a whole neighborhood worth of storm sewer that then has, you know, a 56-in pipe or something like that going out to the lake where it ultimately outlets. There are 18 separate subwaterheds. That means that there's 18 zones where water would come to a low spot in Mount uh and into 14 different lakes and bays. Um and so then as part of our capital improvement plan projects since 2007, we've repaired or replaced 60 sump structures. And a sump is where we added some extra depth to a manhole so that the the pipes that are going out leave some space where it's like storage inside that underground structure and that's going to capture some of that sediment. It also gives us a place to pump it out from. Uh the nine hydrodnamic separators, those are those saffle baffles, those inline devices that use velocity to sort of spin the sediment out and capture it in a chamber. Uh two pvious pavement lots. Pervious pavers are a device to capture storm water and reduce the effects of, you know, impervious pavement where it just causes runoff. Instead, we're capturing that through the pavement. Uh, seven bio retention basins, two dry retention basins. So, those are a form of rain garden. I'll say bio retention is just a fancy word for rain garden. Um, and then we have cleaned or reestablished 10 swailes, ravines, ditches, whatever you want to call them. Those are overland flow conveyance that we have cleaned up whether it has filled in with sediment or plants have started to grow there and then collected more sediment. But those are all things that have been done in the last little less than 20 years as part of this program. >> It'd be kind of fun to see a map indicating where all this is. >> I like that. I like that. I'm sure I have that data somewhere. I don't have it in this slideshow now, but I I can get back to you on that. >> That'd be kind of nice to see. Do I do I have until next year? [laughter] >> No, I'm kidding. We can get it sooner than that. >> When you have fun facts, it's nice to visually >> I'm a sucker for a dashboard, >> right? Like a a map or a dashboard. One of the >> Yeah, I I like them, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um >> I would agree. I'd like to see a visual just because [clears throat] of the interaction with the park system and the location of all these different >> Some of them might surprise you. They might not be where you think they are. >> Exactly. >> Because of how how they work. >> Yep. And then some of them where we have systems that are very close to the lake. Yep. >> Where it's like, oh, this would be a great place to do this. We don't have enough vertical separation. So, it's like >> we would need to be a block or two away, right, >> to do some treatment. And so, then we do when we can. Um, >> well, this would be a really great learning >> Yeah. >> lesson. >> Absolutely. This is this is part of our public outreach. >> Yeah. May maybe next time we'll offer popcorn and see if we can fill the room. But >> well and I don't think the community has any concept of how many pieces of property the city owns and a lot of it goes towards >> maintaining this which is you know to protect the lakes. AB absolutely I mean when >> that would be beneficial to the whole >> we've learned a lot from that just in discussing the parks how many of the properties actually are for storm water management >> when when Sarah sends out the request to vacate you know ends of rightway where we have streets that dead end at at the lake >> y >> I I I just blanket say no to all of them because I'm pretty sure they have storm sewer in them right off right off the bat. It's not always true, but um almost all of those are a no thank you because we either have something there or we've reserved it for something like that. >> So um the next two slides are just some highlights of last year and this year's program. Uh but a couple of things I I want to highlight. Uh you know, we had this just says this has one residential development in 24, but I I feel like um out on the island, we also had another one. So that's that might be wrong, but uh we participated in the adopt a storm drain statewide initiative where they have a registry of people that adopt storm drains. Um I want to say that the city's participation in the Harrison Bay rain barrel program was the second or third year. Um and I know that that continued again this year and I from everything I've heard that will continue and it's fairly popular. I don't know that we've hit everyone yet that wants to buy a rainarrel but that's okay. Um, that's one way of capturing that first flush and we'll continue. Bolton Bank also sponsors that, [clears throat] participates in that just because we feel so strongly that that's a a good way to help the community. Uh, in 24 we installed a filtration basin at Surfside Park. I don't know if any of you are familiar with where that is alongside the sidewalk getting over towards the old depot. >> And then um, we continued, you know, our maintenance agreement between the city and Minihaha Creek for BMP management. So we always partner with the watershed district. Jesse, we hit the next slide. A lot of the same things in 25 uh we participated in that uh infrastructure installed at the end of Enchanted Lane at with the 2025 street reconstruction project again with the rain barrel program. Um a lot of the same things. So just hitting some of the highlights of stuff we've done in the last two years. And then um this is a good picture of the Jennings storm pond cleaning. Uh that was that was one that I don't know if anybody made it out to um three points while that was going on. I was out there a couple of times while the back hose were actually swinging and this this site was kind of a mess. You can't see it real well on this projected picture, but in your packet you can kind of see where the inlet and the outlet to the lake were just absolutely buried. This was a pond that everybody did not realize was a pond in the neighborhood because it had almost ceased to exist. But I can tell you that it had ceased to function. So, we have since reestablished its its function. And um a couple of other things we encountered in 2025. There were two elicit discharge cleanups. So, that means that there were spills that were identified along with their source. Um I don't have offhand exactly what those were. A lot of times they're oil or petroleum. But when they're caught like that, then you you know the MPCA also knows who to hold responsible for the cleanup. So in 2026, we plan to do again some of those same things. We will continue to integrate storm sewer and storm water management as part of the 2026 treat utility project. Uh we'll continue to identify those locations where we can use some of those more sophisticated devices. Um, and all of these bullet points really just pound home uh the commitment of everyone in this room and Mount as a community to be those good stewards of the lake and of the water that goes to the lake from the city of Mount. So, future program needs uh we have [clears throat] a a a need to assess the existing ponds. You know, ponds are not a completely static thing. Unfortunately, they do start to fill in. They do need maintenance and we have a handful of ponds that we have built in the last 20 years or ones that we have inherited from you know older housing developments and things like that that there is actually a state requirement that we start analyzing their efficacy and looking at how much capacity they have lost. So that is something that we will be bringing on the engineering side to start to evaluate the existing ponds. Um we have had some projects in the past to look at outfalls and their condition and that's something that we do on a regular interval. So, we'll also be starting to look at the ponds in their capacity. Um, we'll continue to do the inspections and the documentation and the reporting like we have in the past. We'll continue to train public works staff uh and make sure that the city both public works and engineering are able to execute on the city's storm water pollution prevention plan plan. And I already mentioned the ponds now falls there. So, uh, this slide says questions or comments from you all. I don't know if there will be a bunch, but the next slide after this is to open the hearing and it'll open up to questions and comments from the public. So, I will stand for any questions that you all have. >> All right. Does anybody have any questions for Brian? >> I just have one question on the ponds. Is when you talk about the efficacy of them? Does that mean at some point they they need to be dredged again or talk? >> I'm not going to use the dword. >> They need to be cleaned. Yeah. >> Yep. They need to be maintained. >> And so, you need [clears throat] to clean them. That looks like the picture that you you saw on that one slide where it was a backhoe. So, actually removing the vegetation, removing that, you know, usually it's filledin sediment. It starts to look like, you know, really nice >> sludge. >> Yeah. Sludge or dirt that's really nice for something to grow in because it's got some organics and it's very lomy, >> you know, it's it's not real compacted because nobody drives there and nobody's really done anything there. But, so we'll remove all of that and then put some vegetation back. It's uh the the term my guys like to use is tolerant for wet feet, but we plant things there that can handle being wet and dry or combination thereof so that it can get established so that those banks stay in place and then the water enters and leaves as we want it to and then you know eventually it'll get silted back in again. It'll carry some sediment in but that also means that the ponds are doing their job >> when they're getting filled with sediment. It's capturing it there and preventing it from being carried to the lake. So, well, >> since you haven't, it sounds like in the past, really had to do much inspection on them. >> We we haven't had to measure the capacity for a while. Um, because the most of the ponds were not gathering a lot of sediment. It wasn't significantly measurable. And now it has been long enough that we need to take a closer look to make sure that we're meeting our state requirements. And the cost of the budget for this >> uh I I I believe we are >> already performing some of this under the engineering tasks that are in the budget. This is >> this is not a budget ask. >> Okay. >> And these are also not huge heavy lifts. >> Okay. >> It's it when we have all the information on the pond already. It's easy to go out and take a couple of depth measurements and say obviously this pond is you know starting to fill up. It's lost two or three feet of capacity versus we take a couple of measurements we say this is pretty close. You know, we're only off by six inches. We're going to mark this one as we'll come back and check it next time. >> Interesting. >> All right. More questions? >> No. >> Excellent. >> Then I turn it over to you, Mr. Mayor. >> All right. Thanks. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> All right. I'm going to open a public hearing if anybody wants to talk about [clears throat] the exciting MS4. Oh, we got one. >> You give us your name and address. >> Tyler Piper, [clears throat] 5504 Church Road. Um, thanks for the presentation. Just had a couple brief comments. Um, I live on Church Road at the corner of Church in Belmont. Probably mixing up how those go, but the apartment complexes nearby. And maybe this is just a question on residents and how we should contact city council on this, but they installed it appears to be like a gravel um driveway that their cars are using and every heavy rain there's just probably a mound this big of sand that just runs along the storm drain. And so I just didn't know what would be the appropriate way to kind of flag that. Is that a violation or are you guys aware of that? I guess that was just my first concern. I guess >> possible violation, you should contact city hall. >> Okay, great. I will do that. Um and then I uh t I think it was what Kathy said. I would love to see the the map presentation just because um overlaying whether it's from parks and opportunities to incorporate more rain gardens or things of that nature or just to understand where um even for residents um there could be opportunities for us to help out on an individual level. if my yard is sloping off and contributing to that. And then the next question I had would be on metrics in terms of do we have a breakdown of is it even possible how much water is ending storm drain X versus storm drain Y. Is that something that is factorable or >> may No, I don't I don't mean to keep you off. I want to make sure my response is the microphone so so it's recorded. So, uh, what what you're talking like the idea of measuring the amount of storm water coming in and out would it it is theoretically doable, but it would would require us to like measure flows in so many places in the city that it starts to become a little ridiculous financially. So, what we can do that we do do that on a project by project basis when we are trying to look at excessive flows or we are trying to look at reducing flows from specific areas. We will use that to look for, you know, primary contributors or is something. We also do this in the sanitary sewer system when we think that the sanitary sewer system is collecting clean water when it shouldn't be. So, yes, we do do that, but I do not have whole city metrics for you simply as a function of there are so gosh darn many catch basins and so gosh darn many pipes in town. Does that make sense? >> It does. And and I don't I don't know exactly which programs are currently active, but there are some county and watershed based programs that go on and off at different times that actually will help uh pay for like if you wanted to put a rain garden in your front yard, they will um they will give grants to homeowners to do those kind of things to defay the water that's running off of your private property. >> Well, and we just we we are executing a grant with Hanniban County. Storm water was one of the purposes. So have selfish question as the grant man answer for that is would we be able to measure potentially in the spring say like one one storm drain that's you know I'm talking about Edgewater Park for example but that's a very steep hill leading down to the road would it be possible to you know target one and then maybe get some before and after results so that the city could see is a project like this actually financially helping us in terms of storm water or is it maybe overcooked in terms of what it's delivering. >> Yeah that's that's actually a great idea. I I will also challenge that in addition to volume measurement, you know, one of the metrics we look at is what's removed >> phosphorus. >> Exactly. You you understand what we're after. So So removing phosphorus and nitrogen and sediment, you know, turbidity, those types of things, increasing the quality of the water. So attempting to release less and make sure that the water we release is cleaner is is both things we're after. But it is it is possible for us to measure that. >> Well, that's all I had. So maybe I can follow up with some more detailed questions later, but thank you. >> All right. Thanks. Appreciate Thank you for good questions. >> All right. Anybody else? All right. Hearing none, I'm going to close the the meeting there. All right. We're going to go on to number 10, Centennial Building Facility Study. Who do we have here? >> Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Brian Simmons, senior city engineer. Uh, I I want to caveat this with this report should have a draft stamp across it. That's that's on me for not making sure that was on there. the file was called draft, but of course you don't see that. Uh, but it's not signed and it's not certified. So, what what we have in front of you is the result of the investigation that we've done to date and and I think you all are going to have perhaps some direction on where we go from here. And so, what's in here, I don't know, deep we need to go into the Centennial building. Uh, but we went through the building top to bottom. We identified about $280,000 in deferred maintenance or things that uh have been getting worked on but have been deferred. So, it's it's stuff that you know Ryan's guys are aware of or we've planned for in the CIP, but just looking at uh number one, what would someone who if we wanted to consider the building for sale, what would they be looking at? Uh is not necessarily money we would need to spend if you do want to consider the building for sale. Um, and then Jesse, would you scroll a couple to the the floor plans? >> That's assuming they keep the building as >> Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It just considering that the building in its current form. Uh, and then we we did some scans of the of actual city hall. I know we've got information on this. Uh, but we started to dig into what would it look like to reconfigure portions of that building, you know, with its its remnants of having been separate fire and separate police and then moving the city hall operations in there. There's a bunch of I'll just go ahead and call them sort of awkward orphan spaces in the lower levels that were as a function of operating police that could be reused a little bit better. Um, and so we started to look at some of the available space that's down there. Jesse, we scroll to the next one. you know, that's the spaces that are identified on there. Some of those are things that need to stay and some of those are things that could be reused. Uh, and so, uh, where we're at is is we've determined what the existing uses are of this building. And, uh, you know, I'll just sort of boil it down. Aside from the tenants, really, we have this council chamber space, right? Is is really the most important use for the city. Uh, and then the thing that we have not gone very in-depth into that I expect you to ask me about is how do we recreate this space somewhere else and that is one of the questions I think that's in front of us. I put some very big round numbers in this report and anywhere from a couple hundred thousand to a couple of million dollars. But the question becomes if you want us to include this in this report. Uh and if that is what we would consider finished for the the facility study. Uh I would need to know what that looks like. And I'm not asking that question just yet. I want to flip through a couple more pages. But that's I'm putting that out there as we've gone a little soft on this. That's why I'm calling it a draft because we would need some input. We don't want to just assume. So what I've gotten there is a range of anywhere from reconfiguring the existing fire meeting room. So adding some simple AV so that we could you know recreate the recordings sound recording stuff like that you you know everyone having microphones to raising the roof creating a very similar space with a raised deis and raised seating um and having you know sort of a very nice vibrant council chambers. So we have not put cost to those things because there's a number of details that I think we'd be looking for direction for. Um Jesse, will you scroll a couple more? So those are all the scans. There's the, you know, we we show the um couple thousand square feet there of the the fire department meeting room at the top of the other building. I'm sure you're all familiar. >> So pause on that. So that's 1,400 >> 29. >> Yeah. 25 something I guess. >> Okay. So did you What is this only this part? >> Uh I don't know that I have a direct comparison, but it's got to be pretty close in terms of footprint. Yeah, because your other thing says 2500, but you're talking conference room and hallways and stuff. >> Okay. Absolutely. >> So, just so people know that it's probably pretty similar, but I' I'd love to know. >> Yeah, we Yeah, we we've got we've got it in the the footprints, the floor plans. >> Okay. >> Um Jesse, we you scroll to the sort of the summary at the end. [clears throat] So, I don't know that I want to spend a lot of time on these observations about this existing building other than I think this was a good exercise. You know, we we went through some of this stuff. There's some water damage and some skylights and things. At the very least, if we do nothing from here on out, we have a very good road map for what we're going to plan for over a number of years, obviously, but what we're going to plan for in terms of how we would maintain this building, assuming we keep it. Uh, one other thing I want to mention, yeah, stop right here. Um, were we to separate this building from city ownership, we are currently on all one parcel. So, skate park, Centennial building, uh, you know, the other building that the actual city hall. >> Yep. Uh, and so we would need to do something with the driveway. >> There's a couple of options. We could leave the driveway space on a privately owned or a city-owned parcel, I should say, and then we could dedicate the driveway as an easement. Then the city would be responsible for it. We could turn it into a dedicated public street. the city would still be responsible for it. We could turn it back to a, you know, a future owner of a separate parcel that this building sits on, but then we would need to have an easement for city purposes to access the backside of the all the apparatus parking and the underside of the garage. But the long story short here is all of these things require some, you know, surveying time, some platting and recording. And so all in, I've got a number in there probably of about $15,000 just to work our way through all of the land issues to set the Centennial building on its own parcel, assuming it's Centennial plus its parking lot, make sure that the skate park is still city- owned. You know, it'll be sort of orphaned off to the side, but it'll be a separate parcel. So, we would need to plat all of this to address those things. couple of comments in there about, you know, roadway width if we were going to go public street and stuff like that, but um not not super critical. We would also need to consider how we would end up zoning this parcel >> uh and whether or not any of the future uses would be hindered by the existence of the parking lot. You know, that that's sort of an open book, right? If you were to consider it for sale, what what exactly would happen here or what your expectations are. And there's so many different paths that that could take. you know, the existing building is probably fairly well served by the parking that's here, but also that depends on the use within the building. And so, how we would want to zone that and set that aside for sale, you know, or if really what we're expecting is somebody comes in and bulldozes it, then maybe you assume the whole site is a total loss, including the parking lot, and they would need to reimagine things. Uh, and then maybe the buyer would help direct the future zoning, >> right? >> You know, but these are all considerations. Mhm. >> Um, so there's sort of a summary. Uh, the the deferred maintenance adds up to about $288,000. And I don't want that deferred term to sound like um, we've not been doing things in this building or that public works has been doing their job. [clears throat] They have. These are just things that we have identified that are systems that really to Ryan's crew's credit, they've been keeping operational when they are sort of at the end of their useful life. And so we want to make sure that we've called those things out that hey, this stuff is still working okay, but it's going to need to be touched in the next couple of years. >> So we've got a dollar amount on that plus that other consideration for um platting and land rights of $15,000. >> So that's kind of the summary. Um I don't know if any of you have any questions or you want to go back and delve into some of it. A good portion of the report is a little bit technical on the condition of this building and the uses that are in here and just trying to make sure we did a good job of summarizing everything that's happening. >> I think you did a good job of this building, but I guess I was looking for more is how do you put this over there? >> Sure. >> And the round >> are we okay with it? >> Didn't Wasn't like the like you said really round number, but [clears throat] it was like half a million dollars to $4 million. >> Yep. >> To to sell this? No to make the improvements to to put this there. >> $500,000 to put this over there. >> So that that's that's where that's where I'm I'm I'm looking I'm looking for guidance. Right. >> Makaba Beach does their council deal on a coffee table. [clears throat] >> Yeah. And that's so unprofessional. Don't want to move. >> You need a day is because you can't see or hear anybody if you don't >> and we already have that. >> Quit trying to be like everybody else and be set our own standards. [laughter] I guess I was >> not that I want to do a copy table. I'm just saying we don't need to spend a half a million dollars on a >> a deal raise in the roof. I don't understand why. >> If only. I think it'll be a lot more than half. >> So, just remember how we got here. This is >> Council Member Larson and I's pet peeve that we were Why do we have this building? We keep maintaining it. We're we're treading water, which is fine, you know, more or less, like you said, 2 288 eventually, but um we also, you know, could use extra money for >> big water treatment plant we're trying to do. >> It's hard for me to like >> Plus, what are we ever going to use this for? And we're not growing we're not going to grow our way to use this again ever. So, yes, we have it. we're quasi government, you know, and we're renting it out for them. But I can reimagine this as bulldozing it and having a town home development or, you know, something something else here potentially. Um, and I think we have to think big picture, you know, outside the box on this. >> You haven't experienced the sirens every time they run out of here. You wouldn't want to live here. >> Well, people live right in the neighborhood and they love living here in Idaho. >> They were there before the >> talk. They were there before the station was. >> I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I hear them. We hear them every day off across the lake. Everything happens. >> We hear them across the lake. I hear them a block away. >> Well, Mound's 2.2 miles across. So, we all hear them. So, anyway, so what do we want to do about this? >> If I'm barking up the wrong I mean Larson's gone, so it's just me now. Or is do you guys are you interested in this or not? >> Well, I I started coming in as you know, very enthusiastic about it. We have so many needs in mind. This feels like it's really at the bottom of the barrel for me now for to do it right, to do the cost. And again, I'm the same as I I was on our first meeting about this. If we end up with 50 to $100,000, >> we're not It's going to be a lot more than that. >> Well, I I understand that, but remember our >> just like the conference table thing. I get it. Yes. >> Yeah. So, I could go with it if we think we can really sell it for a lot, but I I feel like it's maybe something that doesn't need to be fixed right now, but I can really go either way, and I don't generally feel that way. I usually really have a strong opinion one way or the other. >> Um, I think to the mayor's point, you know, I've got buy in. I I think it's, you know, an asset that we're not using and it's costing us money and how do we um accommodate what we use it for today, which is city council chambers. Um what's it going to cost us to get that implemented over there? And how much future growth as far as space do we need for city staff? Um those are all whatifs. And you know, what type of cost? I mean, >> when you said pull off the roof, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what what are we doing? Why would we do [clears throat] that? You know, but there's always circumstances that dictate that. So, I don't know enough to know. Why are you saying rip the roof off and put a new roof on? You know, I mean, what does that mean? Add another story. Why do we need another story? >> You talking about over it there? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No. >> Anybody's done a tour, we don't need any more room. We have too much room over there. >> Okay. >> Have more room we'll ever need. >> Well, and that means, you know, then what's the cost to move what we need over there? That's to your point What is that cost? What are we looking at? >> I think what we need to do is >> half million dollars. >> We need to have a a contractor come out and say, >> "Yeah, >> thing one, if we moved over there, >> what does that cost? Get a three beds, right? Bet see what it can, you know, to redo this basically, you know, a different version over there. We have elevator." >> So, an architect stairs. >> Well, no, you get three contractor bids and say, "This is what our vision is. Give us a bid on it." >> So, m Mr. me if I may. What what we've got is is this report is not quite finished, right? What so we had a lot of in-depth discussions about this where where I said, you know, we're sort of in making recommendations mode, right? what is the what is the minimum amount that gets it done and then what is the maybe the wish list what we'd like and every single one of those conversations sort of ended in like this would be a better discussion to be had either with you know you or Jesse or you know the council as a whole but what are the specific things that should be included because this this will be signed by an architect like we have we have a whole architecture group and they were the ones coming to me with the questions that I was like I I'm only comfortable with so much of before it goes beyond me making recommendations into I don't want to reimagine what the council wants. So when I talk about raising the roof, this space in here is about two stories tall. >> That space [clears throat] over there is not two stories tall. So it does not fully rep replicate the feel in here. And and you know that's where we got into the questions of what type of space do you want it to be in. So when you say we could or could not necessarily meet around a coffee table, right? The question becomes, I can help you cost estimate it and we could even design it. You know, if we wanted to get a bid package, that's what the architects are all spooled up for. We brought in some laser scanning equipment. I don't know if you around any of that was happening, but we scanned all that other building. And this is sort of an annoying thing that I go off and I do when I'm not working on mound stuff. So, I I brought that in and we ate the cost just because I think that's really cool. So, what's in those floor plans are actually 3D laser scans of the existing building. We did that because I know there's a whole bunch of weird block walls and things in those bottom floors >> that I think we can reconfigure and create some other usable city hall space. But that upstairs room is just sort of a big open space that kind of works as a meeting room. Could be easily reconfigured as a basic level council chambers. But I guess the question I'm looking for guidance on is if you want us to include a more specific cost estimate to take this study from draft to final, I need to know kind of what the priorities are. And if we're not prepped to have that priorities discussion, we need to have that in a different way. That's okay. >> We've been having this discussion for two years. So we need to finish this tonight. >> Was that what you estimated about 15 grand? >> I think. >> Great. Well, we need that the erection of 15,000 came in like it would cost us this much. >> 15,000 would just be to plat this parcel so that you could sell the Centennial building separately. >> Welcome center. >> I guess like one part that's missing for me is the >> like uh I love all the info that you put together here. >> Mhm. >> But without knowing how much like it's like 4 acres, you know, just shy and if we I don't know just for the sake of math like say divide it in half and then you have the city hall building, the fire station. But if we were to sell >> Sure. >> the half with this building like without knowing the value of that. >> Sure. >> I feel like we don't really know what we're getting. >> Sure. >> Kind of with council member Mcani where it's like I could go either way because we don't I don't know how much we're getting. >> Yeah. So >> I would rather spend 280 maintaining this building and just keeping it than you know over a million bucks easy on doing something over there. >> Yeah. I I think the the cost of that to get into some of the things we have in here sort of balloons kind of quickly and that was why I put some big round numbers in there. But also those are just an estimate. >> Yeah. I'd rather spend the money maintaining this and then just keep the asset of the land. But if we know if we have like can we >> don't you think you guys would rather have that info too like what is this two acres worth? >> But it was like a crazy >> buddy. He did it. It's >> like [clears throat] 500 grand. >> The other thing I would like to know is how old's that building over there? 25 >> pay off mortgage though. >> Yeah. So we're getting to the point where we're going to have to start replacing >> right >> stuff over there and how much of that process to make it suitable for what we need it to be would incorporate say replacing the heating system >> you know so that's also general maintenance and aspects of that. How does that play into you know what is it going to cost? But to your point, I mean, without a vision, we don't, you know, I mean, what do we want it to do? >> You know, and what are the needs of staff? I mean, how, you know, >> is it functioning correctly now? >> You know, and I feel like when I go in there, Kevin's all crammed in the corner and he's, you know, lurching back behind the wall and [clears throat] it's like, okay, that doesn't seem right. >> You know, how do we improve that workspace for them as well? >> But that's not that could come later. The whole point of this whole thing is this building right now, >> right? Do we want to keep this building? The only reason we have this is because we just kept it. We never got rid of it. We never moved on from I think that just because you want to sell it now doesn't mean it would sell now. And we haven't really thought about a true concept. There's there's the piece of yes, let's get rid of the building. One, we haven't really ever asked the staff what are their expectations of staffing needs for office. And >> I did I asked our our only employee. Well, >> I'm sure I hope you would have done it, too. >> I don't think we >> Do you think I'm crazy for doing this? Do you agree? >> I'm not I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for a real report that says what they see is hiring. You know, the the staff was cut back tremendously. >> Yeah. We're not hiring more staffing. >> Well, we're not Maybe we're not soon, but maybe in the future we may need more. >> Yeah. And if we do, we have plenty of room. >> And >> but I think I is there really plenty of room if y'all been over there. Yeah, >> I've been through the building and I disagree with you. It's the Now granted with the laser stuff reconfiguring walls there may be but when I went through that building there is not enough space. >> Did you go to the fire department? >> I went I went to the I went through the whole building. >> It's empty over there. >> I went through the whole thing with them. >> We have a conference room in the back that doesn't get used. >> Yeah, but it's a small conference room smaller than that. >> That office got a window too. >> Yeah. But I think >> I think we got to think outside the box. But the other thing too is what are we going to have done with this site? We have to this city. The reason, you know, we're always admiring what everyone else has. We keep wanting to do what other cities have is because we've never taken the time to be really visionary and say this is what we want to see in the community. So, >> what I want to see is this wiped down. >> You want to see it wiped down? What do you want? What's a new development? What kind of development? >> A town home development, a condo, a development. Why? What if if that doesn't work? And how does that fit into what we have already? We've got a skate park. We've got baseball fields. We've got a city hall. >> This is what I This is what I would say. >> You put up a little 2x4 [clears throat] thing over here with the sign on say contact city hall if you're interested. Right. >> See that? That's like casualty. That that's what the problem was in M4. Everyone said, "Oh, let's just let the market tell us what to do." >> Yeah. So, you put up the sign, you let someone come and tell you. >> Someone's got to come. I've talked to a couple developers that could be interested in it. >> So, well, you know, you gota get to the point where we're willing to do something about it first. >> I I think it's still a little premature to just say we're going to sell it. >> I'm not against selling it if it makes sense. >> What next steps will get us there then? >> What >> What next steps will get us there then? the next steps for us to really get you open >> to really to really understand what what our expectations are as to what this site does, what this site could be with us gone that's value added to the community. >> So, it's been three years. So, what ideas do you have? >> Well, I I wasn't thinking about selling this. This was you. There was two of you. >> Oh, I know. But we all talked about it for the last year. >> We all talked about and then initially I thought that it was it it's like it's like a move to say, "Oh, yeah. We got some money and we paid off some bills." But it's not that much money. >> Okay. You got >> like Kathy was saying, you know, if it's if it's if we're only going to net a h 100,000. >> Who's netting 100? We're not going to sell for 100,000. That's not ridiculous. >> Well, [clears throat] >> no, his report was like 500 to what? >> Couple million. >> Yeah. And I mean, we can't dictate >> Well, we can with zoning, I guess, but we can't dictate exactly what a developer is going to do with it, >> right? I mean, it's going to >> unless well, we could if we gave direction, >> we can we can settle guidelines of what we're looking for, right? >> And then if they want to do a deal, then >> figure out. >> And under a redevelopment, when the city owns the property, >> the city has a a large amount of control over how the property is redeveloped. >> Right. >> Again, I'm willing to just let this go. It doesn't sound like >> I would care about we keep doing studies and we keep paying Bolton and Bank to do all these evaluations. I mean, I think >> got I'm on board to getting rid of it if it's not providing any kind of service or benefit to the community. And right now, I don't think it is. >> I mean, what is it doing for the community? We're >> well, we hold our meetings here, but we could hold them there. >> And LMCD is renting some space cheap and you know, we've got the historical society all we've got open space all over this place. >> When I say this place, the city >> that those people could all move into [snorts] different locations. It's not a, you know, we don't need to be a charitable event maintaining a building. >> Yeah. >> That's not benefiting the community. I mean, it's not. And as a taxpayer, I mean, I don't think I'd keep a piece of property that just sat there and did nothing and cost us money because to your point, we've got all kinds of deferred maintenance and issues. And I mean sitting here talking about putting a skylight system in. What what the heck do we need with a skylight system in a building that we're not really using other than for meetings. >> It it exists and it's leaking. >> It is. Well, re- roof the thing and be done with it. I mean, we don't need skylights. You know what I mean? It's it's that kind of >> So, one option would be we [snorts] >> again put it out there to the market and say, >> okay, >> uh does someone want to keep this just like this if we're okay with that? and they could just buy this and then they can rent it to the other government agencies that are in here. >> Then we're out of the property management business. >> We're out of property management. We would do some kind of, you know, uh, easement thing on the on the driveway, you know, so we can get around there and then we still look at the same building and fine, right? At least we're out of it. And then we get a truck for blank, >> right? >> That seems so casual. If we're going to sell it, then let's do it the right way. Let's do it with all the important information. Let him give us the cost on what it would take to give you your new location in the other building and let's decide what we're going to do about this street. Are we going to keep the street or give a private street and decide what what what kind of developments you want in this and be beful but just to you know it's like it's like throwing it away. the I mean I just want us to be the other and put a new development here if you know so we can get someone to do it. >> If you can get someone to do it but you know you need to also have your if you just put it out in the market then we're subject to whatever the buyer wants versus at least setting the parameters of what we want. >> We would set the parameters and we'd say here's what we want out of this. I was just saying option one is if you want to just keep it if that's what the council wants and you just want to keep this building and someone else could lease it out for business. >> I think that all of us have said that we have varying levels of of comfort but that none of us are necessarily against totally sell not selling the building. It's just the method in which we go about it. >> Okay. So, do we want to workshop this again? I mean, >> no. >> What do we want to do? [snorts] >> Three of us has to move this forward one way or the other. where I'm at. It's like >> if it's a kill deal and there's three of you that don't want to do this right now and you want to pause it, pause [snorts] away. >> I mean, we always have the assets. >> It sounds like we got two that want to move on. >> Take a vote then. >> Okay. Well, >> I mean, dang it. >> I mean, this land is always an asset that will go up in value. But like, if we're only going to get 500 grand, then I don't want to do it. If we're going to get like one and a half million for it, then I'd be interested. >> Let's just say you get we got split it 750 or whatever, right? hypothetically and we converted that space over there for, you know, a couple hundred grand, 200 grand, right? >> Well, we need to make sure we can convert that. >> That's going to be really >> All we're doing is we're just pushing our council chambers up there, right? >> I don't want to sell this for 750 and then spend a million bucks on. >> Okay. So, then you just want to spend 280 to fix it and just sit on the property and just spin the wheels. >> He just wants to make sure we need to get the bid. >> No, [snorts] that's what he said. I'd rather retain the land value >> and spend the money over, you know, like how just because this is in our CIP doesn't mean we should, you know, spend the money, but like it is it's budgeted for in our CIP. So, if we just keep doing what we've been doing and then sit on this plan value until we really know what we want to do or >> this is what we're elected to do is make decisions. So, >> I guess we're not ready to do it. >> Yeah, I would say that I'm not ready. >> Okay. >> Without knowing how much. >> You're not ready. You're not ready. This sounds like the fire department decision in Orno. >> You know, we don't want to do that, right? >> Oh, I just [laughter] got to compare to the fire department in Noro. Great. >> Okay. Well, I know her, too. So, it's it's it's your [laughter] call. >> Well, I I I'm comfortable just letting it sit. >> Okay. >> And I also if we ended up going over to the fire station, >> I wouldn't need anything outlandish. I mean, a nice table that we all sit at is and I think you're going into the sound system and everything else. I just I I feel like we have so many issues and now that that require >> we can chew and walk at the same time. >> Yep. >> Jason, I do that when you know you have on your agenda you want this to pass. You don't need to be disruptive with with us. I I am not >> and it's very unusual for me to to straddle the fence on something. >> Okay. >> P, you know, if if you put it up for sale, I wouldn't feel one way or the other to be perfectly honest. I'm tired of talking about it. >> But I I feel that that this land is an asset and and I don't feel like a big rush to sell it today unlike how I felt three years ago. >> Okay. So, just we're going to pause it for now. So, what do you want to do with your report >> going forward? >> Nothing. We're going to sign it. We'll call it final. You guys could put it on the shelf. We won't bill any more time to it. Okay. >> And then if you want to revisit it, we have all of those things. We also have the the digital laser scan and all that stuff >> when you ask us to pull it out of the archives. >> BMAC is here. >> Okay. All right. Let's move on to the next thing. Number 11. >> Thank you, Brian. Thanks. >> Review discussion action on resolution 2587 amending a policy on appointments reappoints to advisory commissions. >> You gonna take it or >> Sure. I haven't been talking yet. Uh I mean this is really as presented two weeks ago at the workshop. I don't think we change anything. And um if the council's comfortable with the with the new policy, we will pass the resolution, get it out there. And then one of the things too would be to turn around the vacancies in the upcoming uh um commission spots for the newsletter to go out next month and start planning on how we're going to do the interviews which should take place probably by the end of November. So um if there's questions between the three of us we'd be having field them. Otherwise the sooner we can get moving on getting this out there. That'd be good because it's November next week. [laughter] >> I don't know. I mean, if it's the same as the way the workshop left it, I don't really have any questions on it. >> I I should note what we did is we took that format that you had and we changed it to a policy format. [clears throat] >> Perfect. I read through it and thought it sounded great. >> Covered exactly what we talked about in the workshop. >> Yeah. And >> I will say it's a policy adopted by resolution. If as we're going through the process there's a determination later on that the policy needs to be modified, it can easily be modified. >> All right. So we got a resolution. Does someone want to make a motion for that? A motion to approve resolution 2587 amending policy on appointment and reappoints to advisory commissions. >> Okay, got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. Those opposed. All right, that passes. >> Okay. >> All right. Number 12, we got council member Pew. Oh well um I was at the Gillespie um 25th anniversary. It was what a wonderful celebration and recognition of the change and the progress that the center is making. Um it was a great evening. Lots of people there from odd parts of history of it. And there was a a nice overview about Gillespie which really once again pointed out what I feel is the greatest asset we have in mound is we have really strong volunteerism and people who are willing to commit to the community. When you think that someone leaves $500,000 and says match my money and he did you know we did that in this community. Um and that's why we have the glassy center. So that was really great. Then um I was at with the mayor at the library groundbreaking which was really great and what we need to understand is we are getting the state-of-the-art technology library in the whole Henipin County. No one else is getting a building like we're getting, which I think also puts a challenge to us to think about what are our commitments to future energy efficiency um practices and you know and and stature to cut our cost uh in it. But the building I think is going to be lovely and they saved the trees. Everyone was so excited that they saved those big trees on the site. >> So that was it. >> All right. Uh, council member McNate. >> Uh, the only thing I have is to remind people that they have just three days left to nominate their favorite person for citizen of the year. And that's it. And I was at the event with Sher, too, and they just did a beautiful job presenting the community and Bill Gillespie. And the the dinner that the Legion put on, the pork chops on the grill was just >> just to die for. They were they were they were thick and delicious and moist. That's kind of a weird [laughter] >> That's unusual for a big thick pork chop. Anyway, it was really a nice event. >> All right, Council Member Castle, I don't have anything. >> Uh, Council Member Herk, >> I don't really have anything other than a question. We said we were going to write a letter to Met Council about the water treatment thing on West Edge. Did we get that done or is that refreshed to sign? >> I didn't uh I didn't put it in the packet, did I? Um, >> no. But yeah, I haven't um >> I didn't send you an email either today, so I'll take responsib on on the street side of the >> Yes, I have a question. >> Yes, please. >> Ask. >> All right, that's it. >> Yeah. >> And you you don't have it here, right? >> Right. >> Okay. So, next time >> I I'll just if you want I'll just circulate it, too. >> Well, we got to sign it, right? >> Yeah. So, >> just bring it next time. I mean, they're not going to be >> or we could stop in and sign it. [snorts] >> We got all whatever you'd prefer. Maybe since it's already full, >> just bring it in next time. >> Okay. You had another >> Well, I I I also thought thinking about all the construction because someone asked me, are we ever going to not have construction in mound? Um, but next year we're going to have um commerce under construction for the water treatment. Have we really talked with the businesses on commerce about how long that construction is going to be? Because that's going to affect some significant um business. You know, I think about Surfside Restaurant and the store across from it, even though she's only open so many days, but Gillespie Center and them. And I think we should make sure that they're all aware. I know that there used to be insurance that businesses could get for what they call interruption of business for loss sales and if that's something that they might need to look at. So I think it's important that we have a conference with them and let them know what that construction period is going to be like. [clears throat] >> Jesse, any thoughts on that? >> Well, I think that it's going to be Part of the process is just um public outreach. I mean, I don't know how early we start that, but we could start it. That could be over the winter even. And just >> I mean, we obviously don't know the dates yet, but >> it's going to We know sometime next year. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I mean, it's a long winter. We can >> host things during the day for businesses to come and meet here or whatever and just >> lay out what we're going to be doing. Can I remind everybody too that the way that we're going to construct construct that is not going to be a huge open hole? >> Oh, it's a >> weard. It's still one lane though. >> Could could be probably. Yeah. I don't know that we have it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sure that's where Matt's at right now, but you know, when we dig the pits and we insert pipe, you know, using the you heard me talk about trenchless methods before. >> He did say that there'll be a lot of that, but >> we'll employ as much of that as we can to minimize the disruption. For sure. >> Right. And the disrupt disruption will happen after Spirit of the Lakes or >> before or after. I think >> just to make sure that's not in play. >> I I I think too soon to answer, but you take an input. Yeah, >> we we put it in there in the deal. >> I remember Matt saying that it was like they had to commit to having the project finished before Spirit or not start till after, >> right? >> Yes. >> I just like to keep bringing that up. >> Yeah. >> I mean, stuff like that if we want. [clears throat] I mean, we've certainly been, and I know Bolton Mink does it all the time. We just clear the chairs out, set some easels up with the maps, and just send a letter to everybody and say, >> "Come on, >> come on in on a Thursday or whatever." And we could do it >> during the day into the early evening to catch people that are maybe work here and >> travel. I mean, >> yeah, too, >> right? So, no amount of information is too much, right? Mhm. >> Well, you could do that QR code thing, you know, around the neighborhoods and all you have to do is get the phone and go straight to >> see how how disruptive it is going to be for >> a bunch of virtual open houses during co that I will say that that concept has stuck around a little bit for especially know you've got busy families and stuff like that. >> Yeah. >> It's just a way to connect with people that you wouldn't catch otherwise. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, LMCD meeting is tomorrow here. Here >> five 5:00 it's like an open house. Anybody wants to come in? >> Um, I think it's five. >> They tell us what they're going to do about conserving our lake. >> Uh, the other last thing is we got that uh email internally from the attorney about the parks, right? and that they're not encumbered the lots, right? >> Yeah. >> So, we need to kind of figure out what the next step is on that. What do you want to do? Um, you know, we can do whatever we want. But what I was thinking is I think we need to come up with a game plan of what we want to see and kick it back to parks, let them chew on it, come up with, you know, game plan >> and then but we got to give them good direction of what we're trying to figure out. >> I'd like for us to think about it as a system that all the parks the inter relationships or or not. >> Yeah. >> And and looking at the park system. So, just I don't know if you want to chew on that, but >> or do we want to put an agenda item next? >> I was going to say >> I'd rather just kick it to them, but I I kind of we got to tell them what we want them to do, >> but it'd be cool to have it as an agenda item, not a workshop. >> Well, I guess what I'm saying is, do we want to do we feel comfortable? I know it's at 9:00, but do you want to chat about it quick and see if we want to push it, you know, give them direction on what we expect out of that or nothing? Do we want to jo do a joint meeting with them? Do we want to talk about it here? I don't know. >> I think part of the issue has been between the council and parks is the two are not talking to each other. So I think in order for us to get what we want out of parks and kind of collaborate a little bit more is to sit down together decide what we would like to give them >> to help them >> work towards a goal for us >> and because they've never had that >> right >> I think that would be the most effective >> another joint meeting like we did >> back in May or whatever. Well, I think we should do one more either an agenda item come up with a 10 bullet points that we want to hand to them to have them do. >> You want you don't want to brainstorm with them? >> Not really. >> Okay. So, you don't want to do a joint meeting? >> No. >> I don't want to do that's the whole point of giving them this. So, when we have a joint meeting, >> we actually have some things to discuss. >> But you do want to have a joint meeting with them eventually. >> At some point, of course. Okay. After we left the last one, I wanted to have two a year, >> right? >> But I don't think we're ready for that yet. >> Okay. So, we we you want to workshop now that we got that back >> workshop or put an agenda item for us to talk about what we want to do. >> Yes. what how we'd like how we'd like to see the parks commission >> work towards some of our goals and then they can in interject with a lot of their goals but how they can even be efficient without knowing what any of us have wanted over the years is beyond me. >> There needs to be more direction given to the parks commission from the >> Okay. So besides these three lots I mean do we have a laundry list of what we want to give them? I have a list. >> Okay. >> Maybe it is more workshopppoy. >> Yeah, I think a workshop >> if we can. It might be more productive to do it the way that you're saying is like have a workshop about that so we just keep it to an hour and then come up with something to give to them. And I think we should all show up with our couple of bullet points that would be beneficial to get to the parks commission and then we can just like we do at the year end when we come up with our goals for the year >> and then we can decide what that looks like and then hand that off to parks the parks. >> So do we want to kind of do this toward end of the new year >> as like you know a priority for 2026? [snorts] >> Actually that's a really good idea. >> Okay. We don't nothing's going to happen in the next couple months anyway. >> No. >> So, let's do that. Let's maybe do a workshop in January or February >> preparing for the next for that year >> and then we can talk more about what we expect and what we want. >> Really good idea. The other thing is um >> the other thing is uh well this will come up then obviously with you know the art walker at 2 point >> do we call it 2.5 or three whatever >> phase 2.5. >> Yeah. >> Is that what I call it? I think >> um you know we got to kind of figure out you know so if we can you know implement some of that next year but I >> I would like to revisit some of the >> the park because >> like the decision to not try and be year round. I think that we need to rethink that >> and [clears throat] and some of the other activities that can be done. >> They stamped the walkway last week. So, >> so the other issue too is we did not approve any chairs or picnic tables, >> right? >> Which is fine for the winter, but spring's in a couple >> as long as I I just want us to be mindful of having accessible furnishings and anoround deck chairs. That's Weisetta. Everyone's looking at why Zetta has that. Let's quit copyc capping cap copying others communities and do what's best for our community. >> Yeah. And that that was and I got I got letters from seniors who said,"I can't believe those are the kind of chairs they're going to put in the park. We already have benches that don't work." Although that that the city staff has been modifying that. So I think it's about accessibility. That's the real >> Okay. So for the uh the light ceremony, >> tree lighting ceremony, um what we talked to Ryan about doing is bless you >> is putting in pulling some picnic tables from the other parks, right? So somewhere I mean it's we [clears throat] have concrete. We have nothing look at it. You can't sit on it. So, um, so we're going to do that at least for the Savannah and then know that winter is winter and probably not going to be used a ton in the winter anyway. >> Obviously, we didn't do the um the fire pit, but and then I think we need to kind of all of us think about what does this next phase look like if we implement it and go for it next year or if we just brainstorm next year and do it the following year. Whatever our deal is, we want to, you know, >> they're going to have the fire things this year that they >> they're going to have the fire portable fire pits. Yes. For the event, >> but I'm saying in the winter. >> Sure. >> You know, what else are we going to And there's nothing. >> Maybe it's not going to be the used much in the winter anyway, but there's not really nothing you can do. But I kind of want to kick this off. So, like, you know, April May hits, >> we have tables and chairs. >> Yeah. We have something Yeah. >> to bring people in. And then the other thing I wanted to talk about is uh doing and we kind of partly did that with the the parks um with letting Joanna do the uh the three events that we never did, right? >> But I know we kind of came up with the [snorts] the verbiage on that. >> Um what I'd want to see is, you know, we did this, you know, brand new park. Now, how do we fill it? Right? So Spirit of Lakes, you know, do they do something there half the time? um you know, do we do a music in the park every Thursday night or every you know, whatever. >> And then is that something that you know, our new Maggie can can accomplish or is that too much for her? And then we could have one of the parks members or a volunteer of this of the community um facil. It's a lot of work to facilitate a concert every week. But we have this good brand new park and now we got to, you know, somehow fill it. Art walks or um art festivals coming, you know, but if we don't start doing it, start thinking about the winter, it's going to come fast and then we're going to have >> I mean, people are still going to use it and they're going to come and check it out and stuff. But, you know, let's bring them in now that we did all this. So, >> anyway, that's my thought on that. >> So, let's maybe start brainstorming over the next month or two. Well, we should have that be >> January. That'll be a big priority. >> That'll be on our priorities list. It'll help us keep on track. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's plenty of time to >> set it up for the year. Okay. >> All right. Uh last thing I want to say thank you to Jesse for driving all the way to our senator's house today. [laughter] So, last minute uh we were working on this one pager for a water treatment plant um to submit the the funding uh for that. and in concert with her um >> this with an >> with an yeah our senator [clears throat] state senator sorry >> um she said that we should come up with a one pager this is common we've done this before >> but we kind of updated you know kind of what she would want because they're doing the the bus tour thing >> they're not coming here but she's still going to hand it out to the people on the bus and talk about our needs and whatever. Um the other thing too is remember we submitted for 30 originally. Um she said just it's not going to happen. Don't submit for 30. Submit for 15 >> and say that you're going to match the other 15. Right. So I hope all you are okay with that. I know we did a utility rate study so that that's how we would afford the other >> Yeah. >> 15 or maybe all 30, you know. Um but she basically said with uh Senator Papus who's the chair, >> oh she >> she said that they they want to see people matching you know and we said well we've spent you know $80 million you know the last how many years and they she said that's fine but you know plus you already got 10. So the thought is Jesse what he did is he pulled we're still saying that the total project is 30 but we said we want 15 >> and she said that's going to you're going to that's going to be a lot more >> productive receptive down there. So >> you know that's what we did >> drove to her house to make the picture. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> He dropped off the one pager >> at her house. >> She >> Wow. >> So I appreciate his extra >> Thank you. go get up and go. >> Precedence has been set. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> And then I did talk to Representative Myers about the same thing and he said, "Yep, that's sounds like a great great idea." But just remember, >> hypothetically, even if we got the 15, you know, >> that we still need another 15. And that's again where the utility ray some of this on our own. There's just no way around it if we're going to if we're going to go through with this. So, >> uh, that's the plan. I'm going to throw that in the next newsletter that's going to be written by the end of the week. I think >> um it should go out in November. So, I just wanted to make sure >> unless anybody had an issue with any of that. We can put the number back to 30 or whatever. >> I think that's >> that sounds like a good plan. >> Okay. So, >> thank you, Jesse. >> In the middle of heated traffic running on >> in the rain, too. >> And in the rain. >> Nice drive. >> All right. Does staff have any report there? >> Yeah, I will mention uh next meetings on a Wednesday. Oh yeah. Yeah. >> It's because of Veterans Day and that was the one if you recall when Ryan was here last time regarding the water tower. >> We were going to have a workshop on that and council decided we would meet even earlier than five. I think we said four >> to give ourselves enough time to really dive into uh designing a water tower. So >> can they send us any >> do we need or can we >> you can definitely end it early but you can't go late. So, >> and is this going to be at our next meeting? That workshop? >> Okay. >> I apologize. I didn't know anything about the workshop today. >> It's about designing our our water [clears throat] tower. >> This is just to design what's going to be painted on the water tower. >> Pretty much. >> So, what if we all don't agree? Do we have another workshop to >> I mean just like tonight I mean it's hard to agree on >> necessarily have to have a design done at the next meeting but at some point >> so what was hired last time was the firm that's going to put a bid out there for somebody to come in and and do the work. So at some point they need to have a final um design. So, >> I mean, I'm not coming to the meeting with like a lot of >> I don't know like if we need two hours or can we >> they're going to give us designs, right? >> Can we get it done? >> So, they're already kind of clip art and what they think it should look like, >> right? >> Okay. >> No, if you we didn't give any guidance at all. So, this might be a short meeting. >> It could be. I mean, I you know, >> there's only so much you can do. Do we cater in sandwiches? I >> was going to say we don't do well with short meetings. I [laughter] think we could get it done in an hour, but >> I don't know. >> Yeah, >> we need to get there at 4. We get there. >> I mean, we extended it because >> Okay. >> You said it might be might be a lot. >> I think there's going to be a very visual meeting. >> Okay. >> Well, again, if we I don't want to be pressured to make a decision that night, but for some reason, we all agree >> in the morning to get me up. Anything else? [clears throat] >> Yes, it is. >> I'll take a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Is there a motion to adjurnn? >> Yeah. And then a second. Second. Second. >> Okay. Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. I. I. Those opposed. All right. We're journed.