Welcome to the Mountain City Council. It's Tuesday, December 9th. Uh, can we rise for the pledge of allegiance? [clears throat] >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, we got our agenda. Do we have any amendments? No. >> Okay. Uh, so we have our agenda. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda? >> Motion to approve the agenda. >> All right, got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any discussion? >> All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed. All right, that passes. We also have our consent agenda. That's a long one. Does someone want to go through those? >> I can do that. >> Okay. Um it's just one A through I. Um okay. A consent agenda. Uh items A through I. Approve payment of claims. B approve minutes from the November 25th meeting. C approve resolution 2595 for the polar plunge um on Saturday, January 31st, 2026. Uh D. Approve ordinance 062025 amending city code section 2292 [clears throat] regarding planning commission members. E approve resolution 2596 accepting contributions for 2025. Um F uh pay request number five in the amount of $15,6547 cents to Whidmer Construction for project 2403. >> [snorts] >> G pay request number two in the amount of $151,000 1518 $151,83.97 to Whitmer Construction for project 25503 pay request number one and final in the amount of $41,67165 to Pipe Services for project 25504 and I pay request number three and final in the amount of $27,76.85 to concrete idea for sidewalk improvements projects 25508 and 25509. >> All right, we got all those uh A through I. Does council want to pull any of those? >> All right, hearing none. Can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda? Motion to approve the consent agenda. >> I got a motion. Can I get a second? Second. >> Any other discussion? Roll call, please. >> Council member Heric. >> Hi. >> Council member Mcinaney. >> I. >> Council member Pew. >> I. >> Council member Castellano. >> I. >> Mayor Holt. >> I. All right. That all that passed. So if you're here for A through all that passed. >> Uh number five, we have comments and suggestions from citizens that are present that their item is not on the agenda. So, if it's about the planning case or the levy, we'll have uh time for you in a minute. But if it's not, come on up. >> All right. Hearing none. I got number six. We're going uh Orno Police Department with November activity report. >> Welcome. Still snowing out there. >> Oh yeah. >> Stop for a little bit. >> Might get a little break coming. Didn't last long. >> Um good evening. Uh so I had a chance to review our activity reports and crime reports for the month of November. Hadn't been here for a while. So took a good look. M the reports don't show anything um outstanding that we haven't handled or isn't par for the course. The only thing I kind of noticed was our um mental health calls and our welfare check calls have kind of gone up and I don't I don't have an explanation for it. Could be the time of year. It could be anything. But we at the police department, a lot of our officers are very well trained. We've got CIT critical incident uh people that can actually handle stuff, but we have great resources with our embedded social worker. So, we've been using that, utilizing them a lot lately. And uh like I said, uncertain why it's going on, but it's just one of those things that, you know, we are fortunate to be trained well in and uh practice them daily. So, um now in the winter months, as we can see, uh we have been heavily hitting the roads and mound at night for overnight parking. We're trying to um keep that under control. We're trying to make sure educating people and getting the roads cleared for the public works, but we also ask if public works does have anything um that they see that we miss to contact us right away so we can handle it. Um a lot of roads to cover and a couple officers are trying to cover that up at night and get that cleared out. So uh [sighs] we uh recently uh we participated with the Mounds uh city light ceremony. Um, it sounds like everything went well. Sound like we got a fire call just before Sunday. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> unfortunately, but that happens. Uh, also recently we had our dear students that uh, graduated from the program uh, Mountain West Tonka Middle School. Everything went well it sounded like and a lot of participants. So, it's good. Uh we are also currently working with the uh polar plunge committee. Uh we're trying to get um that event going and making sure it's successful. Uh the Orno Police Department does have a registered um team plungers. >> Oh yeah. >> But we are also like uh Deputy Chief Wiki advises like we also are looking for the donations and also looking for participants to join our team. And currently we're at that we're registered under 50 it's too cold on that. So [laughter] >> is is uh Chief Fornia going to do it again for the third or fourth year? >> I don't want to speak from I'm sure if he can he will probably be back at it. Seems to enjoy it. Um we are also right now we're in the process of backgrounding three um candidates for a patrol officer position. um got three good candidates and uh I believe at this time we just have one opening which is great thing for us. So and then our newest hire Colton Beck is uh still working his way through FTO [snorts] and hopefully get him going here shortly. So that's pretty much all we kind of had going on this month. It's been just busy with wrapping up your end stuff with us. So it's been busy been off and on. So, we're still chugging along. >> Does council have any questions? >> I was going to ask about staffing, but I think you cleared that up. How's how's Onyx doing? >> Onyx is doing great. Um, he has had many deployments. Um, he's been very busy. Uh, because of his status, um, he's not a bite dog, so anything that happens like, uh, missing child, um, people that walk away from group homes, he's being utilized all over the county. He's gone up to Brooklyn Park, Brooklyn Center. Um, you know, he's been a been a busy busy guy. So, he's doing really well. >> That's great. >> So, >> I might have made this up, but weren't wasn't there going to be a second dog as well or >> not in the near future, but there could be. Um, just because the sizeer department and then we have surrounding uh agencies that have their dogs, so they always are willing to help us out. So, >> well, as you mentioned, thank you for bringing Santa to the tree lighting. >> Yeah, >> the fire truck was supposed to bring him and he got called out. So, then >> here he comes [snorts] in police escort. Police escort. >> Escort. >> He He was 10 minutes late, but [laughter] >> Thank you. >> We got him. >> Appreciate it. >> Thanks for coming. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next up, we got number seven, planning commission recommendation. Planning case case number 25-13, expansion permit/new replacement house 2971, Cambridge Lane, uh, applicant Eric Erica Highway and from Lanshoot on behalf of the owners Timothy and Joanne Kenny and we have Rita here. >> Good evening, mayor, members of the council, members of the public. Just a second. It's thinking a lot, isn't it? Uh, that's unusual. Maybe wait till she gets >> Oh, he was You just had it on. >> All right, let me try again. >> There we go. Who knows? All right. Um, I'm Rita Trap, planning consultant for the city. I'll be reviewing the expansion permit request, uh, for 2971 Cambridge Lane. Uh, the property is located on Cambridge Lane, uh, which is on Cooks Bay. Um, it's important to note that Cambridge Lane is a little bit unusual in this area. There is a right of way that ends, uh, just at this property. Um although there is right of way there um the actual constructed pavement ends uh when you're looking north south. Um and we'll talk a little bit more about access because that is an important part of this case. Uh the house was originally constructed in 1914. It is non-conforming on the rear and the north sides and the applicant is seeking uh to reconstruct the house. uh it is an expansion permit because it is non-conforming and um they are generally trying to do most things within the uh footprint of the house. There are two elements that are not one related to the north side uh and a deck patio conversion. Uh and then they are going to put on a second story to this house which is part of the non-conforming element is that we're expanding the non-conformity up. Um, and so they will be they're asking to maintain the existing non-conforming rear yard setback, which I'll walk through when we actually have some diagrams in front of us. Uh, the proposed new construction will increase the footprint of the house from about 1,300 square ft to 1,500 square ft. Um, all areas of the expansion are conforming. Uh, it's really kind of the filling in um, and replacing things that are already non-conforming. There are also additional changes between the existing and the proposed house. Uh they are all labeled on this diagram um A through F. Um they involve the reconstruction on the patio of the north side uh which is going to be slightly smaller but will still be non-conforming. Um there is the remover removal of a shed in the southeast corner, the expansion of the garage to the south and east, but that will be conforming. the shifting of the southern edge of the house closer to the south property line and I'll walk through a little of those elements. Relocation of the steps on the rear of the house and then replacing the driveway with permeable pavers. So, there are a lot of elements happening uh with this expansion permit. Much of the expansion permit has to do with the fact that we have a non-conforming structure. We're adding the second story. Um and so the way our rules are set up that does require review by the planning commission and the council. Um, I'm just going to briefly touch on it is a lowdensity residential area. This is existing a house. We're replacing it with a house. Um, similar to zoning. It is an R1A lot. It's a lot of record. As I said, the house has been constructed since 1914. Um, and obviously it is a Lakeshore lot, though it is uh Brighton Commons is located between this property and the lake. So, the Commons does factor in a little bit. Um, and we can talk about that in a moment. Uh we do want to note that the minimum lot area for an R1A lot of record is 6,000. This lot is only 4,000 square feet in size. So that does impact their ability to meet all of the standards. Uh it is located as I said adjacent to Brighton Common and there is approximately 60 ft between the existing and proposed structures and the ordinary high water level. So, while they need to have a reduction in the rear yard setback, uh they do meet the 60 ft um ordinary high water level setback because Brighton Common is located between them and the lake itself. Uh the diagrams on here in red and green. So, the red is the existing conditions and the green um is the proposed conditions. Uh as I said, we are increasing the footprint. We are increasing the stories of the house. Um, and the expansion permit is required for that second story. And then the patio, it is slightly smaller, but is still within the north sideyard setback. Uh, as I talk about setbacks, you can see these just uh to see the numbers existing and proposed in red are where we have issues uh where it is not meeting the code. Um, so those are related to the rear yard as I said. So instead of 15 feet, it's 9.84 ft. That is an existing condition and that will remain as part of the new construction. And then on the north side, the sideyard uh it's really related to the deck uh which is 1.4 ft uh one point yeah 4T instead of um the required six feet and again that's an existing that it will be maintained. Otherwise, the applicant has worked to meet all of the other setback requirements even as they uh reconfigure the house um and propose something different. Hard cover wise, uh the maximum impervious surface for an R1A district lot is 40%. Uh the existing hard cover on the site is 64.69%. Again, I do want to remind you that the lot is only 4,000 ft in size, so that is part of the challenge. uh they are reducing the impervious surface but we are not getting to 40%. The proposed hard cover is reducing uh down to 48%. The way they are doing that is replacing the batuminous driveway with permeable pavers. Um and they are trying as best they can to reduce some of the impervious. So for example the shed in the southeast corner that's going to be um demolished. they are limited to the amount that they can remove um because of the way that access is provided. Um so this seems like a good time as we kind of talk through this um to talk through the situation for this property. Um north of this so this property um north of this property um is another property that gains access to their property through um a drive portion of a driveway and then uh going across the driveway surface of this property. Um, so I'm going to call them the northern prosperity and the applicant property. Um, you can see this is from the applicant survey. Um, estimating the portion of the driveway that's needed for them to cross. Um, so one of the elements of reducing imperous surface is that there's a lot of this area for driveway that needs to remain uh because it is providing access to the property to the north. It also is providing parking. Um, according to the applicant as well as the property owners to the north, uh, they do, um, park on each other's driveways and surfaces, um, because of the situation, Cambridge Lane ends, as you can see, right, uh, at this property. Um, it's only about seven 7 feet um, of this property that can be accessed from Cambridge Lane and then it ends. Uh, so parking is a little bit of a challenge in this area. And you do have some imagery that kind of shows you this is the the garage of the house that is proposed to be demolished and replaced. Um so it is a fairly tight situation. Um and that's one of the reasons that impervious surface it's an improvement down to 48% but given all of the situation it's probably difficult uh to reduce it any farther. Um and how we have done it in the past and continue to do is we want them to at least maintain if not improve the hard cover percentage um as we work through any future applications. Uh a couple other applicant related elements, the yard encro encroachments. There is a proposed bay window on the second story rear wall. It does not meet code. So we've already noted the fact that it needs to be shrunk in size. Uh the intent of the code is that we don't want to have um to increase the livable area by having a a bay window that in essence um provides more than 8 square feet of area. Uh and so right now they're proposing larger than that and so that will need to be adjusted. Um that's part of the code and something we've uh talked about in many different applications over the years. Um, also there's a um, let's see, mechanical equipment um, and staircases. Um, and those uh, are things that will need to be adjusted um, if as needed. Um, so these are minor elements that are noted in the applicant report um, and not something I'd spend a lot of time on tonight, but we have adjusted made note of anything that needed to be adjusted. Uh we are meeting the minimum uh elevation for the flood plane. Uh and we did have a discussion at the planning commission meeting that the elevator pit um will meet that will meet those requirements. Um it will not need to be sunk um as has been in the past. That's a change in how elevator pits are being designed these days. Um so they will be able to meet uh any of the proposed elevation requirements. There was a note about construction parking. Again, um this diagram reinforces um Cambridge Lane does not connect through this area. Uh and there is actually a a topography in this area. Uh so construction will need to be staged and thought about to make sure that that it does not block access to any of the properties um that currently exist in this area. And this again kind of reinforces the applicant is uh this middle property, the one with access concerns uh is located to the north. Um and those are the things that uh the planning commission did discuss and I'll kind of walk through with you this evening. Uh application was distributed as is customary to agency consultants and we didn't receive any comments. Uh public comment uh the primary public comment is coming from the property owners to the north from uh the northern property. Um so again this property um the concern is about the access and making sure that they have access to the property. Um the applicant, as you can see from the diagram, did uh push the new house uh farther to the south, even though they are coming out to the road a little bit more. They did try and push it to the south to provide um continued access as has been uh customary in the past. Um so that is something that they have addressed. I'm going to move on to the planning commission because there's a bunch of slides that are related. Uh the planning commission discussion really focused on this access question um and concern about making sure that access is continued to be provided. Um b the vote from the planning commission was voted for approval uh recommendation of approval. There was one denter and that denter primarily my understanding u put that in there to make sure that we had additional discussion before we came uh forward to you so that you had additional information that you could use in uh making a determination on this case. Um so it wasn't that he was opposed to the project uh it was more the concern about legal ramifications to the city and how access would be continued to be provided in the future. Um after that the planning commission asked staff uh to meet uh and share that information with the property owners what the findings that we had were. Um staff did meet um subsequent the next week from the planning commission and then we provided a summary to the applicant and to the neighbor um in advance of this packet being prepared. Um so the information that you received in the packet is the same information that we shared with the property owners. Um so to walk through that um a few of the different concerns that uh were raised at the planning commission that staff met. So that as I noted in the packet uh the staff meeting included uh the city manager, city attorney, um city engineers, public works, um community development and myself. Um so kind of all the players that have different pieces of information that come together to understand the impacts of this case. One element that was presented at the planning commission uh was the fact that of whether or not there was any potential prescriptive rights uh for the northern property to access or go across the southern property. Um the city attorney uh has confirmed that this is Torrance property which means there cannot be specifically um adverse possession or prescriptive rights. So that issue of because they've been using this property for a long time means that they for sure have access across the property um is not the situation because of the nature of this particular property. Um that can happen in other situations um but it cannot happen because of the fact that this is torren property which is a very specific type um of legal status. Secondly the minimum driveway width in mound is 10 feet. Um, so just to note, uh, because this may become a factor of discussion later, uh, the driveway that currently exists is approximately 7 feet that the, uh, northern property has. So, they have 7 ft of access to Cambridge Lane. Um, that may or may not that is possibly that's something we've been discussing as we kind of look at this case. There are two retaining walls in the vicinity of Cambridge Lane. Um, one was mentioned at the planning commission. Specifically, there is one wall located specifically on that property. There is actually also a city constructed wall which is in the right ofway and that was constructed in 2012. Um, and that's uh part of the process. So, there are actually two different uh retaining walls that becomes just notable um because of the fact that there's two different situations happening and it wasn't information that the planning commission had. So, again, this is part of kind of factf finding that we've been doing as part of the project. Cambridge Lane does extend north as I've said a couple of times. Um, so there is the ability for the property owner, the northern property owner to make improvements and provide direct access to the property. If you recall, there is topography. Um, so it's not as easy as just putting out uh getting a driveway. There are things that would have to happen. There is also a water mane in the right of way that would need to be either protected or ins or lowered or insulated. Um the preliminary estimated cost obviously very preliminary without any effort but kind of looking at the situation looking at the retaining wall um from the engineers that it's approximately $40,000 to $60,000 in order to provide that access. Um it is the property owner's responsibility um and they could petition the city to construct it and assess it or they can do it themselves and work with the city. Um so in terms of that was one element that the planning commission focused on is how can we ensure that there is access to this property. One element that does not involve the applicant's property would be for the northern property to construct their access the right of way and make those adjustments. Um obviously we recognize the cost element. Um I think the biggest element that staff came to in reviewing this, understanding the case, um the city is not obligated to address this access issue. Um this access issue from the city records, uh the house, the northern house was built in 1965. So this access has been this way for that entire time. There hasn't been an easement that has been requested or granted across. So this access has been this way for a very, very long time. and there's been a couple of city projects and there hasn't been movement um to address that. Uh whether or not there's been conversations about that, obviously none of us were here, so we can't answer that element of it. Um but staff's discussion, the city attorney is that we're not obligated to address this access issue necessarily. Um and then the biggest thing that we keep talking about is the fact that the access because of the expansion permit is not really changing. Um, for example, the up until today, well, today they have to cross that section of h of driveway in order to access the property. That part is still going to be available as far as the expansion permit. So really, the access is not changing as a result of this expansion permit. I think it's just the nature of being concerned that there's going to be a change and recognizing that into the future um there's a concern. Um, so that's one of the things that uh is really a part of this conversation or has been a part of the conversation relative to actual request. They're requesting to build a second story on the house, replace the h or replace the house with a two-story house. They need to convert um the existing patio to a deck. It's going to be in the same vicinity of the existing project. And that's really what their request is. This access issue has just been raised as a part of this project. Um but it is not specifically changing. Um just for perspective, this is kind of the corner that will still be available. Um while this juts out a little bit more, um it is also moving a little bit farther south. So it is going to change where people park their cars, but the actual access is still available. Um and that's one thing that the applicant um did do and provide us the information so we actually can have a conversation about it um in advance. that was not something staff asked for. So with that, uh, we're requesting obviously discussion this evening. I'm sure that the applicant and the neighbor would like the opportunity to have a conversation with you. Um, we have the full complement of staff that can answer questions. Um, technical questions. That's one element that you'll have that the planning commission didn't have. Um, they were just stuck with me and Sarah who don't have all the technical information that you may want. Um, but I can answer any questions or direct those questions to others um that are here with me this evening that can answer those technical questions you may have. >> Does council have any questions for Rita? >> Not yet. Um, >> as I say that I guess just so like that upper right corner of the green is kind of highlighting how the access isn't changing. >> Right. Currently this is this is where the access has come from. I mean my understanding and the applicants is you know it's probably not quite so perfect >> but they are they are driving and accessing um through this vicinity. >> Okay. And the new garage will be there and they'll come >> the new garage is here. >> This red dotted line is where the existing house is. >> Yeah. So it is bumping over to the right a little bit. >> Yeah. So that north corner will be closer to that right away. What's the Do we know the distance from the corner of the garage to the rightway? >> I don't have it with me. I can look that information up or like off the top of my head. >> Okay. >> Right. Now, you draw that little square around the red square. Is that mean anything or are you just saying look at this area? >> It's just to look at this area. It makes it much easier for me to orient. >> Okay. So, where that where that corner is of the red? >> No, no, that is not it's the distance between here and here. >> Okay. Got it. Okay. Okay. Any other questions for Rita? >> Not yet. >> Okay, we'll have you back up. >> Yes, >> in a minute. >> Is there a particular diagram? >> I was just gonna Maybe that one. >> Yeah, sure. >> Okay. Does the applicant want to come up? [cough] >> Can you [clears throat] give us your name and address? >> Good evening. My name is Erica Wei, 202 Water Street, Sweet 202. And um I'm uh with Landshoot and um tonight we have Tim Kenny here with us who's the owner of the property. Um so I am I'm here for questions tonight. So if you have any questions about the specifics, I'm here. >> Okay. Does council have any questions for her? >> I don't. No, not yet. >> Not really. Unless do you know that distance from the end of the north end of the garage to the rightway or to the road? Um, it's very, it's pretty much along the setback line, which is 20 ft. >> So, 20 ft maybe plus a little bit is what it is to the right of way. >> I'm just thinking snow removal and how much, you know, right now it's snowing >> and what it'll take to be able to get around that corner to the door. >> Well, I guess we don't have any questions. >> Yeah. [laughter] Okay. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. Work on it. Uh, does anybody else want to come up and talk about this project? >> You want to come up and give us your name and address? >> Good evening, everybody. My name is Trent Sims. Uh, I'm the property owner on North 2957 Cambridge Lane. [clears throat and cough] >> Um, I don't have a problem with the construction project at all. I think it's going to look great. Um, my relationship with Tim has always been great. I've lived in the house we for 15 years now. Uh, never had a problem. Uh my main issue is obviously with the access to this house. It's a very unique situation. Uh originally it was [snorts] how far the driver was sticking out or the pardon me, the garage was sticking out because when they have cars in their driveway, uh it'll be hanging out into the road and their property marker is actually a few feet into the road way right now. So the way it looks, the property line actually takes up about 2 and 1/2 ft of the road. Um, so when that when they do have cars there in the future, it's never been a problem in the past because it's only been their temporary home and uh they're obviously parked further up, so it's not a problem. That one thing was a problem. And then I kind of think that this whole corner of the property thing is a newer, bigger problem. Um, you brought up snow removal. One of you guys brought up snow removal. Right now, all of the snow gets plowed right to the end of Cambridge Lane. So, right now, I got about zero feet of access because it gets blocked. My entire access gets blocked with that plowing. Um, so that's another thing that's going to be an issue in the winter time. And again, we've always gotten along. This hasn't been an issue. My main concern is for the future with my property, his property, any future tenants that might come in, any future homeowners that might come in not understanding this. If something were to ever happen between Tim and I, essentially, he could put a fence up and I wouldn't have access to my house. [laughter] This has been like this since, you know, before 1965 because there was a house on this property beforehand. I don't believe the road had changed at that point. Um, and she had mentioned that this cost is up to me, which I don't understand how this is the case if this I've never been given actual access to my house. Now, I understand, pardon me, I understand if if a new construction happens and you need to make adjustments to a road to happen, how that would be put on the the new homeowner. This is an existing situation where the roadway was never created with enough access to the property itself due to utilities in the drive in the rightway. Um, this is one concern that, you know, I' I've tried to work out with Tim with some sort of written prescripted or written easement. Uh, we originally thought this was an implied easement by necessity. Obviously, finding out that Torrance doesn't allow that. Um, so we've offered to do some sort of easement with Tim. So this wasn't an issue and it would be resolved in the future. He uh does not want to do that for marketability p purposes, which I I do understand. Um, but uh at this point my house has no legal access, which uh the mount requires 10 ft. Um, you know, my father [clears throat] had bought this house in 2003. He was the one that constructed this wall because a wall had fallen over on the previous owner where the previous owner had skipped out of the house. Um, we had pushed the wall out a little further into the prop into my property, but the the line where the wall was along Cambridge had never changed because of the water man. We were basically forced to put the wall there at that point. Um, and that was something that the city engineers had given us location for this wall to go. So, there was nothing that we could have even done with that wall at that point to make access happen. That was that's the most I basically know about the property at this point. Anything before that, who knows? And would have to be dug up. But I just think this this is something that uh could probably be easily resolved, but you know, I don't want to have to uh have this something between the city and I. I'd like to get it resolved a little easier than that. So, that's my two cents. >> All right. Thanks. Appreciate it. >> Anybody else want to come up? >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Council. My name is Tim Kenny. Uh, I own 2971 Cambridge Lane. Um, I just want to note we bought the property the same couple months after Trent's dad bought his property. Um, and you know, we bought the properties with understanding the condition that we bought them under. I also looked into this issue when I bought the I am a lawyer. I looked at this issue and determined that it was Torren's register and there was no prescriptive easement. Um, however, uh, we live in St. Paul. We bought this house to be our, you know, lake home but eventual full-time home, which is what we're before you asking permission to do. Um, and we've always tried to be good neighbors. We've always provided access, as Trent said. We get along great. Um, [snorts] we move things when we need to. Um, but we did buy it with the understanding this condition. And um it's my understanding and Jeff uh Erica can probably confirm it even with the movement of the garage it's maybe 1 ft to 2 foot difference linearly from the corner of the garage to the retaining wall because we are spending more money to move it south to create that geometry between the corner of the garage and the retaining wall. And to be honest, we don't need that 4 foot by 40 foot strip, which would get us below the hard cover requirement, you know, on the northern edge of our property. Again, we're incurring more cost to try to facilitate the access. However, we are going to live there and if we park in the driveway and um Trent has a bit bigger trailer, I might have to move my car if I'm parked in the garage, you know, in the driveway unless the city and and I would support, you know, extending the roadway if a solution could be worked out between Trent and the city on that. But it doesn't seem to be an issue that should impinge our ability to do what is less nonconforming and otherwise meets all the requirements of the code. Um, and allow us to have the house that it's not a huge house to be honest, even with what we're doing. Um, we have three grown daughters and we want them to be able to come back with their families and spend time with us. we have friends we'd like to have come stay with us, but we're essentially going to use twothirds of the house all the time, you know, just for the two of us. So, um it's not a, you know, we tried to do everything we could to meet the requirements of the code, be a good neighbor, you know, try to make things better in terms of the conformity and the environmental impact of the, you know, water hitting hard surfaces. Um, so again, I I support, you know, Trent's concerns. I we're planning to continue to make sure he has access, but love to see a better solution for their property. But, you know, I don't think I should have to give an easement on an already small lot and reduce the marketability of our property in the future um to make a condition that already exists better for them in terms of marketability in the future is is my view. So, um, not not planning to impede their access, just don't think we should lower the commercial or the value the market value of the property in 20 or 30 years for for my estate or my kids who get the property when I pass. So, >> okay, >> that's my thought and happy to answer questions, but um, >> we have lived there >> um, five months out of the year for 22 23 years and looking forward to spending a lot more time out here. So, Yeah, >> I thank you for your consideration and happy to answer any questions. >> He's not so many questions for him. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Rita, you'll come back. >> You want me to come in? >> Oh, sorry. I just saw he just raised his hand. >> All right, come on up. Give us your name and address. [clears throat] >> My name is Tom Sims. I live at 70 Birch Bluff Road in Tonka Bay. I'm Trent's dad. >> Oh, okay. So I still have an interest in the house for various reasons. I bought it first and Trent bought it for me in 2010. So he's been there since then. But so the access issue is is our concern. It's not the construction project at all. Uh Rita had said earlier that in order to extend Cambridge Lane and get rid of this access problem is something that might cost 40 to 60 grand. And she said, you know, as a matter of fact, it it's Trent's responsibility. And I don't think that's a matter of fact. I think the [clears throat] city built that wall in 2012. The city limited it to a 7 foot access. The city in that letter said you have to give him 10 ft of access minimum 20 feet maximum. So something was done wrong there. We can avoid that whole problem by memorializing that access an access easement across there. I don't think it has anything to do with marketability. And in fact I don't know that you have any concern about marketability. It's an issue of availability and accessibility. So right now things have been good for since I bought the property in 2003. Tim bought the property in 2003. Nobody's ever had an issue with anybody. But that doesn't mean that somewhere some somewhere along the line somebody won't. You know, if different owners become involved one way or the other, they still have an access question. So the availability of trans property is what's a question here. And you can fix it by saying we'll approve this project as a condition of it. We need a memorialized access right there. U otherwise it's an issue of Trent and the city trying to figure out who's going to pay for the extension at Cambridge Lane, which I don't think is his problem. He didn't create it. The city created it. So we were told yesterday we had a conference call with Sarah. I don't know who else was involved in [clears throat] in There's a difference of opinion there. Whose fault is not well not fault? Whose responsibility is it? City created it. I don't have a clue why you'd think Trent should pay for it to get fixed. It can be fixed by memorializing that access easement, which [clears throat] Tim doesn't want to do. And if it's an issue of marketability, I don't know that that's an issue what any of us need to be concerned about. And in fact, that's an unusable piece of asphalt right there anyway. So, it's not going to affect any market to anybody. So, that's kind of the [clears throat] gist of things here that you guys have to consider. This project is here. The neighbor has an access problem that we com that we created. We can fix it all by making a condition to this property some kind of a memorialized access easement. And if that isn't the answer, then we need to fix the Cambridge Lane access and we can't dump that on his on his lap because he had nothing to do with it. So that's really what it boils down to. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Y >> you know, this was a lot of our conversation at the planning meeting. Can Ryan c can you offer any insight into this or Brian in terms of what it would take to fix Cambridge Road or >> Good evening, mayor, members of the council. Brian Simmons, consulting senior city engineer. >> Good evening. Ryan Preach, public works director. So, we Ryan and and mostly Matt, but I've been part of this discussion as well in preparation for tonight. Um, you saw Rita put up a number there on her slides that was a rough estimate of 40 to $60,000. There's a couple of things that have to be considered in terms of a uh a constructed improvement to change or extend Cambridge Lane. Um, obviously that the water man would have to be relocated, lowered, or insulated so that there's adequate cover so it doesn't freeze. um portions of that retaining wall would have to be rebuilt and then obviously new pavement. So that's where the 40 to $60,000 number range comes from. Does that help what you're asking? >> Well, I guess part of all of our confusion and concern was did the city create this problem? And if the city created the problem, why can't the city take on um >> the condition to fix it to so this property owner has some access beyond what is cutting over the other property owner's driveway to access >> from from an engineering standpoint? Maybe uh Scott, is this a good time to pass some of this over to you? Do you have an opinion to render here? >> Yes. Uh, mayor, members of the council, Scott Lansman, city attorney, um, the situation with regard to the access my and these are facts from my understanding, the access existed in this manner prior to 2012. So, in fact, it probably existed when the house was built in ' 65. And my understanding there was from what I've heard today is that there was a house there before 65 and so is similar access. Um when the city does public works projects um such as this, its job is not to not to do investigations of properties to make a determination if there are access issues. the issue that that would be an issue for the city is that if we actually took away access. So, for instance, as an example, let's say you have a piece of property that has an access and you're going to do um a public road improvement and you close an access down, you have to make sure it has an access to another part. That's not what happened here from my understanding. Um and so the city didn't create the so in that instance the city did not create the situation and they they did not make the burden more on the property than it was before and that's what he would look at look at for this situation. Does that help? I mean I guess at what point because this is on this is part of the city. Does the city say yes this is this is a huge issue that was created you know in whatever 1914 or whenever the house was built. Do we have any culpability to try to create some ease for this resident or are you saying the this I think we all need to understand this that's why I'm asking this. Do does the city have any culpability um in terms of trying to make the north property owner's life easier by fixing something on Cambridge? >> I I I would say generally if there's an issue created by the city for instance back in 1914 when I'm assuming the Helmans were built or 1965 um there's a time period for that to be redressed. There's a doctrine of latches, meaning it's called the sit in your hands defense. And if parties sit in their hands too long enough, they're uh claim against another party um will for essence fizzle out. So this is a if this was in fact created back in 19 say 1965, that's a long time period. I'm assuming you're not going to find somebody who was in the city council and made decisions back then around it anymore. I could be wrong. >> So, the burden, no matter how generous the city of Mal would want to be, splitting it with the the north neighbor or not, um the burden would automatically in this case fall on the pro the north property owner to ease his access. So if we are to construct I'll I'll say a municipal sized or type solution to something like this it has to be done within you know rights of way or easements or other you know physical land devices and vehicles that the city has access to so that we're not constructing municipal infrastructure on private property without some rights over it. And additionally, if this were a a a development, right, this if this was a a blank slate, some they were building here new at the end of a a roadway and they asked us to extend utilities and a roadway, that extension would be assessed to those benefiting properties. So, you know, we can we can undertake that, but also they then share in the cost >> and whether or not there's a cost sharing, that's a decision for the council. It's not an obligation on on the city, but it's a It's similar to when you when cities sometimes do read road reconstructions or mill overlay. They'll have a a specific assessment charge to the city and they'll pick up the rest. Um it'd be a similar situation, but there's no oblig there's not an obligation to do that. Um there is poss and that 40 to 60,000 I know cuz you're talking about the water man and then the wall. Is that is that putting is that putting in a street or are you looking at a a improved driveway area? That's >> I I I don't know that we would there isn't room there to construct a a you know a conforming city street. Yeah. So you're looking at we'll be looking at improving what is what is there or replacing what is there. Also I believe that the cap that was enacted on assessments still stands at $6,600 per eru. You know, even though we have in general moved away from assessing for projects, improvement projects, that the 429 process remains the same and mounds code still includes that cap that was enacted a number of years ago in 2018. If you recall, when we reached the end of our major capital improvement projects that were using assessments for funding processes. So if if that provides you with any, you know, uh piece in that that that would also apply here >> except in the fact that if it was by agreement and you can I'm assuming it can be modified. >> Yeah. Or or if item >> if they petitioned for the Yep. Yep. If we I guess I should clarify if we chose to undertake it then it would that cap would would apply. If it was petitioned then that cap does not apply. Is that helpful? Did I clear it up Scott? Thank you. a question. I think Rita was the one that mentioned that this driveway or someone did that the driveway was actually two feet into the road. Is that the property line? >> That was not me. >> Okay. Sorry. >> No, that's okay. >> It was you. Okay. Do we know if that's true that this driveway currently is sitting about two feet into the road? >> I I Well, I don't know the answer. I need to go to the files. >> Okay. >> Yeah, thanks. >> That's fair. Um, but I think what the comment was that the property irons are found into the right of way. Not that the driveway is, just that the question is this shows it really really perfect where Cambridge Lane and and I think the implication was it's not quite so um situated as is [snorts] typical in mound. Um, so I can if I escape I can go and look at that information. Um, it's just I can't do it while my computer's [clears throat] projecting things. >> I don't know Sarah knows but maybe you do. But I mean, well, I went out and looked at Henipin Countyy's property map and it shows that as a road going straight through and I know that at some point it must have changed and became a curve into Leslie Road. >> So, it's saying that it was deadended. >> It's challenging to look at Henipin County property records because that's just the plat. And when we platted things here in Mount, we didn't actually pay attention to the topography or, >> you know, there's a hill there, right? >> Yeah, there's a hill there. I mean, all kinds of places in Mount >> probably a dirt road. And also it's important to recognize that exactly how it overlays on the aerial is not exactly right. So as long as we all recognize that it's good for orientation purposes, it's not good for preciseness purposes. So like Okay. >> So that's I guess my next question is what were we thinking when we put a road in? I mean like do we even know can a fire truck get through there? >> Is that what the 10 feet is about? >> Why do we have a 10 foot driveway element? It's just the minimum requirement when anybody is going to construct a driveway is 10 feet. So someone can't that's a standard for every property in Mount. If you're going to create a driveway, it has to be between 10 ft and 24. >> I mean I guess I'm just [clears throat] questioning what were we thinking back in 1930 or whatever. >> Well, I guess you know >> why didn't we build that retaining wall 5T back or something so I can't answer it would have a valid driveway. >> Yeah. The challenge also is to remember that mound actually wasn't a it wasn't a city, right? It was it was three separate entities that were back before zoning was actually a thing and the surveys don't match. >> So, yes, I totally agree with you. Lots of places in mound do I question [laughter] why. >> I'm with you. [clears throat] >> Um, and then the retaining walls, there's some notations in some of the documentation, I think, from the property jacket that some things have shifted over time in terms of the hill and retaining walls and things. So, how much time we spend in the past versus the situation today is always a little challenging, >> right? >> But I totally understand. It is a quandry for us all. >> Yeah. I mean, I I think the development is beautiful and I have no problems with that. I mean, I'm just questioning how did we get here, which obviously doesn't really matter because we've got >> totally understand why we want to know. >> Um I think it's unfortunate for both property owners and I get both of their points, but I mean It's just like how did we do this? Just >> once again. >> So we >> we have uh >> the option to fix it or >> what on page 3107. Do we want to pull that up? >> So the resolution is are you talking about the resolution? So the resolution that we prepared is based on a approving rec resolution that um approves it with the conditions related to the project at hand. So I [clears throat] think the I maybe I'm summar if I'm inaccurate let me know but the question this tonight is do you approve it how it stands with the project um and then the whole conversation about how to provide access could be part of this resolution or it could be part of a separate conversation you continue to have is how much does this access get tied to the project at hand and is it the responsibility in any way shape or form relative to this project and this applicant or is it related to something separate it um and how do we handle that because the resolution does not have anything related to the access in it. We stuck to the project and the conditions and did not include any requirements related to access as part of the resolution. Did that make sense? >> Yeah, you're not your computer's not up, I guess, but >> it's mine. I actually have it. >> Are you able to pull up the Hannipin County? >> Oh, yeah. >> I I that's not in the packet. So I when I go on the county website I feel like I see a better I gota >> I see a better view of it that I think will help everybody. >> You drive over. >> So I'm kind of stuck on >> two. I don't really have a question, but >> I know >> you know the resolution and our requested action is [clears throat] just to reconsider the expansion permit >> and I'm on page 3106 where um you know and number five above that stating that the access is not changing with the requested expansion permit. >> So I mean >> we're just issuing the expansion permit or not. >> Yeah. and it doesn't sound like anyone has a problem with the construction or reconstruction. So, couldn't other details be ironed out as part of that access later if those two property owners feel they need to something needs to change because we're only approving the expansion [clears throat] permit >> right >> tonight. >> Well, on a >> we're not changing any access, you know, >> right? Well, just since we're talking about the access >> guidelines, >> the applicant I mean they did buy that property and as you can see on the map that's where the property line is roughly right again county map's not 100% official but pretty close >> the road goes up there. So like the one thing that the applicant said is with you know if they parked a car with the trailer or you know if they parked a whole bunch of cars there then the other guy might not be able to get into the north >> but that would still be a problem now anyway. Right. >> Right. So how does that affect what we're doing tonight? >> That's what I'm saying. >> I don't know but just since we were talking [clears throat] about anyway. >> Yeah. >> I mean >> Right. Well let's say that you know I mean Mr. Kenny seems lovely and they seem to get along but let's say he decides he doesn't want to live in Mound. He wants to move away. He sells it to someone else who's not as amicable to the >> Yeah, but here's the problem. >> That's what I'm saying. It's kind of like two separate issues. >> It is. You know, >> I agree. >> They both bought the properties and they both >> bought the four corners of the property on the road that [clears throat] >> doesn't exist. >> Well, >> I mean, it doesn't appear. >> Sorry. But do do we turn down the applicant that has nothing to do with access? >> No, I guess I just don't understand. And I think part of what Scott was saying is, you know, I mean, most places I've ever lived, anytime you do anything when you're doing a reconstruction, a remodel, or pulling a permit, um, you want to make sure that you're not you're still meeting all the current codes, not necessarily the historical. So, I mean, I don't know where that stands, but I mean, it sounds like they're getting pretty close to the rightway. >> Um, but I didn't drive out there and I visually haven't looked at it. I mean, not that that really matters to be honest with you, but and we can't really say, "Okay, um, Mr. Kenny, you know, or Kenny, excuse me, chop off at the end of your property and give it to your neighbor." I mean, that doesn't that doesn't work. >> Well, we haven't gone through all the >> requirements of the applicant either. So, we'll see. >> Okay. >> If it fits all the Right. We have They're here for a reason. >> Exactly. >> Um, what did you want to say? >> No, >> nothing. So, remember that other property over that a lot of snowmobiles use um and it to access the lake and it goes right over the guy's driveway. Do you remember that one? [clears throat] >> You guys know about it. Come on. >> The one I feel like I get a little bit of a pass. >> Okay. Anyway, I know you all know about it, but there's a >> in >> we have a a slice just like what the what that other deal showed that shows like how that guy's, you know, the north guy's accessing the property over the south property line, right? Again, like like an easement over there. >> But do they actually have an easement? Because there is a that's >> Well, the problem is we so council this has happened to us. This is before all of us, but they passed to get let this guy build his house there, but we can still because we we we gave them uh [clears throat] we let him build his driveway over a road. Well, all the old school mountain people are like, "Well, that's a road that heads to the lake, right?" >> Oh, yeah. >> Go that one. [clears throat] That has so many layers. >> Okay. Yeah. So, so my point is >> thanks >> that that is that's that's different because they actually had we said yes you can build this and you can access >> the access permit >> because of public lands permit. >> Think of it this way is that rightway doesn't end at the curb. There's also the boulevard area and we allow people to build their driveway into the boulevard >> um and maintain grass there and and there's a rationale that's that this road unimproved roadway to the lake has is similar to like a boulevard where they can have access over and that's probably why it was granted. So it's a different situation than um private property like we're talking about here. Well, it's Yeah. public as in we own right >> the Gway >> and then the house we let them build on there saying that no you still got to let snowmobiles go across your driveway. >> Yeah. Part of your driveway. >> But they also did a public access permit. So they were drive they were building a private driveway on a public street. >> Right. So that's different than >> So this doesn't relate at all to this >> about uh how we could sliver off. >> We can't sliver it off because he owns it. >> Yeah. >> And he's not going to want to sell that. because it's not his role. >> Got it. >> But Cambridge Road is our responsibility. >> Well, the road >> city man and we do. Do we plow that Ryan? >> And you plow straight north and throw it in the >> They should be back dragging it out. >> Okay. >> Pushing it down Manchester. If they're not, I'll let them know because it's a new driver this year. >> New driver. >> Mhm. >> Driver. >> That's what he said. Driver. >> I thought he said driveway. >> Yeah, that's what it sounded like at first. And your driveway drive further. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I'm concerned about safety, too. Just as far as like if I mean, if we've got to get a fire truck in there, let's just say Mr. Kenny is out, you know, snowmmoiling and he's got four cars parked in his driveway, which may not even be possible. Let's just say three. And how does the fire truck get in? Is he going to have to go up on Leslie and pump the water over the hill or I mean, what >> I can't answer. It's the situation that we have today. Yeah, >> I was going to say, yeah, that's a situation that's happening now already. >> But I understand, >> but they're amicable right now. >> I know, but I'm trying to legitimate concern. >> If we're only talking about the expansion permit, it sounds like the rest of this is kind of like a ongoing >> that north corner of the garage will extend out slightly, which the picture's not up there right now. >> I can switch over. >> Can I say one thing? It's just that actually the garage setback that pushes the cars further out towards the street. It's the face of the garage that is actually creating >> Yeah. >> the rightway that she's talking about with fire trucks. But >> again, that's not necessarily my >> So, what are we doing with what are we why are they here? >> Why are they here? >> Yeah. >> So, we have something called an expansion permit. And that says that if you are going to expand an existing non-conforming structure, so something does not meet setbacks and you want to make it bigger within kind of the area that you're already non-conforming, you have to ask us for a permit. What's important to some degree is um I'm going to zoom in a little. I think I can zoom in a little bit more. And and unfortunately, this is just going to make things maybe maybe it'll make it simpler or maybe it'll make it more complicated. We'll see. But um this line is your setback line, your front yard setback. >> Okay. >> And they are they are going to that line, but they're not increasing past that line. So they are building within >> what you would allow them to do. So, in theory, they could tear down this house and build a house within this >> and you wouldn't even see it. It would just go for a building permit. What makes it non-conforming is this rear? >> Mhm. >> And this little part of the patio, which is how they access into the house. >> So, I guess maybe I misunderstood. So, the top of that box is not the edge of the garage. The right that that's going to remain where it is on the north side. >> Well, this is where the edge of the garage is right now. >> Okay. >> And this is where it's going to be. So it look >> but in both situations it's what is conforming. Yeah. >> And they could again as I said they could tear down this whole house and they could have proposed a house within this boundary >> and nobody would have seen seen the materials. We would have just approved it and this issue would still be here that we're here discussing this evening. >> That's kind of what why I was bringing up. >> So this I'm not saying that makes it does not it does not solve your access issue that we're all concerned about. Yeah. It is just framing of this application and the challenge that we're facing. >> It doesn't resolve the access issue. Nope. >> But we're just talking about the expansion permit. >> So, they're really moving out towards Cambridge, not north. Okay. >> They're really moving. Yep. They're moving out just a little bit. >> They don't on the other side. I was just trying to figure out >> but they are meeting the 60 foot um ordinary high water which for most lakeshore properties that's what we're concerned about. This one just has double because they're of commons. So did that make any sense or did I make it work? >> No, but I mean we have to approve them to go to that little >> they have to here >> and this is where the house is right now. >> Oh, but they want to go over it. >> They want to just maintain the point at which they are today. But they want to go up. >> What's that little red >> this? >> Yeah. >> Steps, which we allow encroachment for steps. >> Okay. I thought you said that. So that it's only the patio that really matters. >> Both of these are going to be within the footprint of today. It's so they're not making anything worse. If it was anything worse or more, it would be a variance. In mound, if it's an expansion permit, we say you're already in your box. You want to do something within your box again that's slightly different. And so we at least want to look at it and approve it, but you're still within the box that it was for the existing structure. >> Okay. >> So that's what it's one of those kind of >> we see a lot of variances. We see lots of these. >> Yeah, we have a lot of roads like this though too, you know. I we you don't see as many expansion permits because we've adjusted them over the years because when we first had them >> everybody all of them got approved and so every once in a while we'd go back to you and to the council and the planning commission and say well you've approved all of expansion permits can we make them so they can be done administratively. This one qualifies as more because they are putting on the second story. But a lot of the expansion permits staff just reviews because you've generally felt like if you're within the box of the house, then it's not that big of a deal. If you're filling, we always talk about it in terms of filling in. If you're filling in wherever you have been, everybody's used to it. It's not that big of a deal. Um, and staff can approve those administrative >> because we're going up the level. That's the problem. That is the big problem on the house that you're adding a second story to the house >> and then none like that box window on the left side. >> This part >> or the patio? I mean that's >> that's a patio and >> it's already there. >> There's a patio there and it's switching to a deck, right? >> No, it's a deck there and it's switching to a patio. Nothing like switching the terms. It's currently a deck. Um but they can't do that. They need to do a patio. >> Okay. >> But again, it's still the structure. >> All right. >> And it's there today. Okay. Does council have any other questions for Rita? >> Okay. Well, we stay here. Um, can can we pull up 3107? >> Certainly. >> Did you give me a page number? >> Uh, 3107. I just realized it was actual page number. Sorry. [snorts] >> And do you [snorts] have a certain >> Well, so this is that's that's fine. If you go to the next page. >> Yep. >> See, that's in expansion permit. Is there any um criteria that goes with it or >> Oh, with an expansion permit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You just got to go through what >> Yeah. Just a second. Um [snorts] let me split over two. So um I better put this here. >> And just before we do that, this was looked at by planning. Planning was except for one person >> six to one >> six to one uh for it. Uh the one person had reservations that they wanted to solve by now. >> They mostly were concerned about the legal how I understood it as Sarah agrees. It was mostly and hopefully a council member Mciny. It was mostly about making sure that we had the information you would need about the city's obligations or requirements because of the fact that access wasn't granted. That was his biggest concern and that's why he gave his direction was hoping that we would meet with the attorney with the engineers and make sure we had a really thorough understanding of the situation so that you had all the information you needed. >> Okay. >> And we didn't have any of that information at the planning. >> Okay. So that was Thank you for getting all that. >> Okay. So number one, >> yep. Expansion the the criteria for granting an expansion permit is that it's a reasonable use of property. So you're considering the aesthetics, adverse [clears throat] um absence of adverse off-site impacts from the actual project that you're looking at, adequacy of off- streetet parking for the project that you're looking at. Um you we would look at whether there's exceptional or extraordinary circumstances that justify the expansion. So things like the fact that this lot is smaller. It's only 4,000 ft into 6,000. So it's difficult to make it within the setbacks. That there's topography or other circumstances. And that they aren't things that they created. They're things that are just present in this lot. This lot has been around for a really long time. The 1914 house clearly has been where it has been for a long time. So um it's reasonable that they might want to just construct something in the same location. Everybody around them is used to where this house is. So, the fact that you're putting a house back is going to be something everybody's used to. Um, that they wouldn't al adversely affect or alter the essential character of the neighborhood. Um, and that it's the minimum needed, that they I don't know, you know, you didn't do a fourc car garage on a 4,000 foot lot, that it's reasonable what they're asking for, and they did as much as they could to address the issues um that are present uh with the requirements. >> Did that help? >> Yeah, that does help. >> Okay. So, kind of to your point again, they're asking for an expansion permit is pretty straightforward. >> The ease the easement or lack of has always it's been a problem from [clears throat] before. This has nothing to do with this technically. >> I mean, I would say that, you know, that's up to the work of both of them. But like, if we just we're sticking to approving just the resolution on the agenda, we're only talking about the expansion permit that isn't increasing the degree of nonconformity. I understand like the difficulty of the situation, but it's like an existing situation. >> Yeah. >> You know, like when the planning commission approves six to1 to approve the expansion permit, we're just talking about the expansion permit, >> right? >> And the ongoing thing of like uh council member Herrick said, if someone moves and someone, you know, if things aren't as amicable, you know, like that is something that could already happen. you know, hopefully not, >> but if if if one of them moves and someone else, you know, that's an issue that's already existing separate from this. >> Okay. Council P, did you see >> is that little triangle is that that that's we're driving over is that going to be pavers or will that remain black top like it currently is? >> It's part of the pavers for the whole driveway system. So >> all right. >> So the whole element is new permeable pavers that the applicant is proposing to address hard cover. >> Is that going to become a problem for the plows and stuff? I mean are we going to end up replacing pavers every year? >> That would be the property owner's problem. I think >> I don't know. We have pavers in other locations in this >> that have failed. >> Right. But I don't that I can't answer specifically that it's different for this property. >> All right. Any other questions for anybody? >> Okay. Well, let's uh take a vote then. Does someone want to make a motion? >> Um we're just making a motion for the resolution, right? >> If you want to. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um, I'd make a a motion to approve resolution 2597, planning case 2513. >> Okay. Got a motion. Make it a second. >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed. >> All right. That passes. All right. Thanks, Rita. >> Yep. >> All right. Number eight, we got 2026 final levy and budget discussion >> and approval. Thank you everybody. I'm sorry. >> All right. Good evening, mayor, members of the council. I'm Laya Muhi. I'm the deputy city manager. Typically, you would have our esteemed finance director perhaps up here. Um, but right now, the city has vacancy in that position. So, it's my privilege to present the 2026 final levy and budget. Tonight is also our truth in taxation presentation. So I wanted to start this first by some of the goals that you set at the beginning of this year along with some things that I've heard since the time that I've started here which is your desire to improve our external customer service to create efficiencies and fiscal responsibility as well as risk reduction. Think on top of a lot of amazing other goals like our fantastic citizen of the year and other initiatives that you've started. These really outline to me some of the things that I've heard you talk about quite a bit um in the first month that I've been here. So, as I mentioned, tonight also serves as our truth and taxation meeting. This is a public meeting requirement that was enacted in 1988. Um so, this is a formal meeting on the city's proposed taxes. Um it's intended to increase transparency in this government process and provide that educational tool for residents to understand how that property tax levy is set. Um as well as offer feedback. >> Um fortunately or unfortunately um we have no residents here in the audience to provide that feedback though there is an opportunity for that on the agenda. So, as part of the budget budget process, I kind of wanted to outlay how this happens. How do we get to the place that we are tonight in December? So, first, property valuations are set by the county assessor in January. Um, this is done at the beginning of the year and mailed out to property owners. So, you'll get that statement for your valuation. The city does not have a role in determining that valuation. That [clears throat] is exclusively set at the county level. So if a property owner is dissatisfied with their property valuation, whether they feel it's too high or too low, they should address that at this the county level. The city then must set a preliminary levy um that's sent to the county in September and then a final levy set at the end of December. At any time in between that, cities can adopt that final levy. Um but most cities do leave that through December. A city's final tax levy can only be the same or less than that preliminary levy. So this is an item that was also in the newsletter. So what is your tax dollar? How is that split up? For every $1 you pay in taxes, what percentage goes to every different entity here in mound? About 27 cents goes to the school district. About 32 cents goes to the city and the HR. Um just under 40 cents goes to the county. and then um some other very minor uh fees for the Met Council, LMC, things like that. On the city end, our budget timeline has looked like this. In September, we reviewed and adopted a preliminary levy um for both the city and the HA. Um we did send that in accordance with the Henipin County timeline to the county. Um at November 25th, the council approved rate schedules, user fees, and our general fees schedule that does make up a portion of the budget. Um and then tonight, again, we have that truth in taxation presentation as well as our final levy and budget presentation. The city is required to send this information to the county by December 26th. So, what are some highlights of this budget? Um the city's taxable market value did increase this year. Um, and the city continued to work on utility rate stabilization using those franchise fees to supplement water and sewer funds. Um, in 2025, the city began that 5-year period of necessary street rehabilitation projects, um, known as our SROP or street rehab and overlay plan to address some street projects through 2029. the city continued to focus on the maintenance of that capital reserve fund um in an effort to rely less on debt and or assessing properties for those major capital projects. Um and the city is continuing to follow that financial management plan or FMP as well as our utility rate study to evaluate options for potential water treatment plants as well as kind of consider how we get uh right side up on some of those funds. So to develop the budget, staff uh reviews finalized contracts and confirmed costs for related budget items. Um [clears throat] again in your November meeting, you did adopt those utility rates um which goes as a part of this budget. Um and then there is this proposal we discussed this um full-time staff position. This was qu asked in um earlier meetings prior to my start was did a staff member was a staff member included in this budget. Um initially it was not. Um, but I'm going to talk through a little bit of how we're adding that staff member into this budget. So, code enforcement has been a big point of conversation for this council. Responsiveness and um the time that it takes to uh get through code enforcement cases. We currently staff code enforcement um with this position that is split between many things. So, our field officer oversees our code enforcement administration. This position also does our emergency management. They took that on once we went to contracted police for the city of Orno as well as respond to daytime calls for fire service. Um so this is a lot of demands on one position. Um and I think that that makes it really challenging for some of those administrative functions of code enforcement. So we uh you know we've heard from you all that you'd like that higher level of responsiveness as well as reduce weight times for code enforcement. um but our current staffing model is really not adequate to have that increased level of service. So utilizing um the levy that we have already set in our preliminary levy um we have calculated that there is the funds within this budget to add a planning techcode enforcement administrator. Um so this would be a front desk person who would sit at the front desk of city hall. um they would help track complaints, issue letters, and communicate with residents as well as support other planning functions. This is a position that we used to have um and no longer have. Um but it will free up the capacity for that field officer to really focus on documentation, litigation as well as working alongside Oro Police Department and Hediban County to provide support. A lot of times on some of those worst cases uh in terms of code enforcement, we're either taking them to litigation because they simply refuse to um deal with the issue or it's someone who's having sort of a mental health crisis or a hoarder home. Um and that takes quite a lot of um leg work to help make sure that they get the services that they need. What this will do is in 2026 create a predictable system and process for code enforcement that's reliable for residents. the remainder of their time can assist with customer service in the planning department. So, we have some of these same concerns, not at the same level about just getting back to people on permits, walking people through um the fact that we have a contract building official. That can be kind of confusing. So, um this is going to really create some additional capacity at an administration level. Um this is new [clears throat] to the budget, so if it makes sense, I can pause here for some questions on this. Otherwise, I can continue. >> Let's just pause for a second. I know we talked about this uh last time I think or a couple times ago >> and this I think this is kind of important. So just I'd imagine we're all probably on the same page and thanks for help you guys for recommending that. So uh the other thing too, you know, member uh our field officer um does another job too, right? So we're we're we're one of our goals for this year was to work on code enforcement and This is really going to help that. Uh, plus everything else we got to go do in plus remember we're going to have uh our new finance director too which was already included in the budget. >> Okay, >> great. So, continuing on um I wanted to show where Mounds tax levy um their the preliminary levy compares to um our neighbors. So, of our neighboring Lake City communities as well as some um kind of comparable outliers, we're right at the bottom. Um I think that that's a pretty nice place to be. We're not the very bottom. Um but we, you know, I think have a very respectable levy compared to, you know, what you've done in the past as well as it continues to follow that FMP. What does this feel like for residents is a big question. So, our estimated property tax percent change is going to feel about 3% for folks. Now, that's not going to be across the board. And our taxes are not the only component of that. Um, and so what I like to use is that median home value. So, the median home value or average taxable market value for a home is $355,000. Um, they are going to be right at that 3% valuation change, about $35 a year, $2 a month. So, I wanted to pull a property tax statement because again, we do not set people's home valuations. and what Henipin County um saw in a lot of cities, but especially here in [clears throat] Mount using Henipin Countyy's GIS map, kind of going through people's property taxes, especially in this 300 to $400,000 home range. Um looking at what people were going to expect to see in their proposed levies and taxes. This is all available online. Um and what we saw was quite a few homes decreasing in value with the homestead in exclusion going up. So that is what is on this is a real property bill for Hillcrest Road. Um where their homestead their estimated market value went down about $15,000. Their homestead exclusion went up $2,000. And so their actual percent change in taxes is a negative 1.2%. Um so there are quite a few properties who overall even with a 6% levy are going to see a decrease in overall taxes. Um So, what makes up our property taxes? Some of these were some slides that our previous finance director left in here. I left this stool. I think he seemed to love this stool image. So, in his honor, here it is. But our property tax is made up of three things. Operating expenditures or our general fund, capital investments and reserves, and our debt service. So, what does that look like? Operation is those dollars spent on annual operating costs. Keeping the lights on at city hall, spending contracts on policing, having our fire service respond to fire calls. Um this is the paper and the people. Capital is the equipment and assets. So road construction process um projects are um big assets like fire trucks, other vehicles. Um, and then debt is that money that we borrow and the service that we pay on on that debt. So, I'm going to go through each of these. Um, and if I'm getting boring, you guys just like give me a uh the general fund is includes again those basic operating divisions that provide those basic city services, police, fire, public works, planning and zoning and administrative functions. Um the general fund is supported by both the tax levy but then it also does have other revenues such as charges for fees and service. So when you pay when you apply for a planning permit that costs money. So there are some revenues in this fund. What that looks like is this um about 87% of the general fund is made up of tax dollars but then permits charges for services and fines other things um kind of round that out that full [snorts] hundred. Many cities in Minnesota receive um local government aid from the state of Minnesota, but Mound no longer receives local government aid due to our taxable capacity. >> Aren't our neighboring cities kind of seeing the same thing? Okay. >> Yes. Member Castellano, I think that elite communities are are especially seeing that. So, general fund expenditures, what does this look like? Um operating costs remain stable. Um but we are going to see an election year in 2026. So, we do have a pretty big increase in election judges and administering that election. Um, we do have um in the budget an assistant fire chief or deputy fire chief um planned to start July 1 um to kind of address again those growing staffing needs during the day and then that code enforcement technician along with phase one of the 2050 comprehensive plan. So, our CIP, that capital investment, um we have a little over half, excuse me, a half a million dollars here, um that includes um an F-150, some other equipment, um you know, flooring in the fire offices, things that are sort of necessary to keep us going. Um as well as uh in our capital reserves, we're setting about just under a million dollars aside in our capital reserves. debt service. Um, our final budget has about $776,000 of debt service. Um, the financial management plan also is really working to reduce that reliance on debt. Um, and Noah presented and Kyle Sawyer from Allers presented on this uh last meeting. Um, I will not um claim to be a full expert in that FMP yet. Um, but I know that you talked at length last meeting about kind of debt service and and not being as reliant on debt past 2029. So the overall tax levy again is broken up into those three things. Um, a chunk of it is those operations. Then we have capitals. So again in that top line you're seeing that infrastructure replacement reserve fund and then debt service that's being paid. Um so again this is sort of that overview of keeping that levy steady um to eliminate the use of special property assessments. We no longer um assess for road construction pro projects. We have that fund balance. Um so the the debt is is continuing to decline. If you see that from 2021 to where we have it here in 2026. So with that I can pause for any questions. I can go back to any slides. Be gentle with me. I know only enough to be dangerous. >> Does council have any questions for Leila then? >> Um I have a couple just really minor ones, but um the code enforcement position that would like would that direct report be to Sarah or you? >> Yeah, member Castellano, that direct report would be to Sarah. >> Okay. And then I think it's worth pointing out too we had in our last um finance committee meeting we talked about I think I asked about like the code enforcement outsourcing because we had two things on our priority list for 2025 was improving customer service and resolving I don't remember what the actual like item is you know we had 26 of them but like the improvement on code enforcement what was like a round number um for anyone like listening watching ing too, but like having this position, you know, there's a full-time position that we'd be adding, but we would potentially or could be spending more every year outsourcing it. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yes. Member Costalano, I think you're asking a good question, which is, you know, much like we contract Bolton and Mink or um HKGI with HK with Rita, um we could outsource from a company who does code enforcement solutions. A very fun fact is that I used to do that. Um, you know, if you want to grow up and be me, you can go yell at people about their property. Um, and you know, I think we probably would spend somewhere between $1red and $150 an hour. Um, realistically, that person probably needs two days a week. So, you know, I think the quick math on that is is a pretty substantive number. Um, and that's not the full-time uh year- round, you know, support that we would get from an admin who would be here every single day and answering the phones every day. That was a challenge when I did the contracted planning, you know, work for did it for the city of Shore View and people would be annoyed because I would only be there Mondays and Thursdays and in the in between days their calls are not getting answered. Um, and so, you know, there are companies that do that. I'm not sure that it is something that's gonna really solve the problem that you're looking for, which is that consistent and reliable service. >> Yeah. But >> I think it would also be more expensive, which >> it'd be more expensive and in-house it would be more reliable. Yeah. And I think we talked a little bit on part of it also being I mean it's kind of a bigger task but like creating a um I don't know if process is the right word but like a timeline of like when someone calls what's the you know response within 24 hours and then whatever within 72 hours and like we'd have like bullet points for them to hit. >> Yeah. Member Costellano. think that that's something that once we have this position established, we'd like to come back to the council with either um potentially having a consultant kind of walk us through your expectations um as well as our code. What do you mean when you say like that property doesn't look good, right? Um helping us try to understand as a council what level you want to be at in terms of enforcement, but then also documenting that expectations and process. So, if I'm a resident and I call and complain about something, I understand, you know, what is going to happen. [clears throat] On some of these larger projects where people get really frustrated, sometimes the answer is we're just waiting to get to the place of litigation. Um, but making sure we have a person who is answering the phone every day able to do that. And I think given um our field officers constraints of you know for example last week um that person was called to a support call in the city of Minnitonka from 1 to 5:00 p.m. That's a whole day that is eaten um at a fire call to do that that fire service. So >> we we've we've all understood that which is >> why it's fantastic that you've found a place in the budget >> for this person. And again, just for response time, even if it's just to call them back and say, "We've heard you. Um, here is where we're at today, just to give people some kind of feedback." What whatever that feedback will be. >> I think Leila's term was um improving the external customer [clears throat] service. And it is like a hopefully a lot less of the I haven't heard from anybody in like three weeks. Is anything even happening? Well, and it looks like you've taken time to really invent this position and have written down what your hopes are for their day-to-day. >> Yeah, >> sure. If I if I may, I I'll say we've it's this is the distilled version. I think that we would like to get into the new year and really utilize the winter to sort of explore what we can do more of and what the council might see. Leila touched on it that we we really would like to engage the council >> and and answer some of these questions because I think I some of the code is very straightforward. Some of it is up to sort of the interpretation of the person reading it and that's on [snorts] our side and the resident's side. I mean that's so what we'll need or what we would request is that we come out sort of in the spring when the grass starts growing again and people start parking things in their yards or whatever is that we have a really robust system for answering these calls, following up on them and then also backing it up with that this is not only the it's not only the priority of the council to be more responsive to code enforcement but specifically on say [snorts] three cert certain things or 10 certain whatever we come up with, but I mean things slow down in the winter a little bit. So I think this is a really good opportunity to sort of get into this and and finding a spot for it and um I think that slide with the earlier with the 6% levy increase falling at the very near bottom from all of our neighbors is telling and I think you know I thank Noah if he's listening somewhere on the work he did before he left. >> Yeah. but also the the work the council's done to get on the FMP and catch up to this point where we can present a budget that is that small of an increase within the FMP and still continue to answer some of these calls. So, um I it's I think it's great and that it's we're very very hopeful, but like I said, we're tip of the iceberg sort of right now just get into the new year and then and then we can really start ramping things up. And at what point would you put out a search for for this person? >> Yeah. Mayor, members of the council, you know, the flip side of what you're not seeing in creating this position is that we currently have only one admin at city hall. So, if you've met Sarah Lens when you've come into the front desk, so Sarah supports planning, >> public works, elections, the clerk, [laughter] I can finance, I can keep going. So, Sarah is um is responsible for all of that. And so what will happen um when we do this and to answer your question council member McCannini quickly is that should the council approve this we'll advertise for the position maybe as soon as next week um so that we can have someone start right away in the new year. What that will provide is um all of those planning tasks that Sarah Uns currently does will move into this position and then so about 50% planning 50% code enforcement. Um hopefully once we have a process and we have things like code enforcement under wraps then there's more room for this person to do something some more different things support public works kind of grow our admin capacity um I think both of these people are like going to be helping me do some website stuff some light um again both of these really external customer service um what that will do with that extra capacity for Sarah Lens is allow her to continue to support the clerk and elections as well as support our new finance director so add a little bit more finance capacity in our organ organization. Um, so we used to have five finance staff. Right now we have two. Um, and so helping kind of add that department to have just a little bit more robustness. Um, she's the person who's going to kind of walk residents through their utility bills, special assessments. Um, she's doing that right now, but she'll have a little bit more room to support that department. >> It's very exciting. >> Sounds like a way more organized. >> Yeah. I mean it it just >> segregation of duties if you want to call it that >> and clear definitions on [clears throat] >> what our expectations are roles and responsibilities. It's a wonderful beautiful thing. [laughter] >> Um are we to the end of the presentation? >> Yes. >> We're on questions, right? Any other questions related? >> Um and then we got to [cough] [clears throat] >> open it up to the public, right? >> Yes. >> Uh uh do a right. Okay. So, I'm going to open up to the public if anybody wants to come up. >> We miss >> come up and >> talk to us. >> All right. Nobody's there. So, I'm going to close the public comment period. So, again, back on AA page 3161, uh we have a a resolution here. Um, any other comments or anything else before we wanna >> Well, again, thank you to Noah for all of his hard work and for a great presentation, Ila. >> Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's fun to have my first presentation be a really exciting one. So, thank [laughter] you again. >> So, I will say for one month in, you're crushing it. Uh, that was probably the best presentation I've seen in five years. >> Yeah. um easy to digest, easy to understand. Uh plus if if you uh you know, if you look at the comparison to the neighbors, um you know, all we do in the finance commission is go how do we go the lowest possible with still providing value, right? And you I know property taxes in general has hit the news and you know some people look at the number the top one it's they're just insane. Um now next year obviously we got you know we got to figure out what we're doing with this water treatment plant or not. But um right now we're just trying to keep it as low as we can. I mean Maple Plane come on we're what 10 basically this tied with them. So, we're tied per second uh lowest in, you know, all all the neighbors. And and even four and a half, I mean, we're only we're only six. So, and again, with that extra, we're looking at one and with that extra one to make six, uh I think we we're solving problems that um you know, have been around that we're trying to fix. So, again, thank you for all your work um and and your good ideas as well on the on the commission. And then uh and of course our awesome city manager >> and for hiring >> both I think you guys both clerk and [laughter] >> congratulations on that. >> We have a great staff >> and and Noah kept our feet to the fire too. Um you're going to have to hire a new good director cuz >> he for 11 years he's he's really kept us going down the right path. So >> yeah, huge thanks to Noah too. You know he's going to watch this. >> He I doubt he's like he's >> he's going to watch this. [laughter] I'll text him to watch it. >> Yeah. Uh what hour and 45 minutes in. There you go. >> Uh but anyway, again, thanks. Uh so unless there's anything else, uh someone wants to make a a motion for this resolution. >> Well, I can do that. I uh make a motion to pass resolution number 2598 um approving the 20 26 final general fund budget in the amount of uh 7,223,98 setting the final levy at 8,71467 and approving the final overall budget for 2026. >> All right, got a motion. Yeah. Can I get a second? >> Second. Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. I. >> I. >> Those opposed. All right, that passes. Then we also have 3209. Uh, we got another resolution for the >> HB. Motion for that. >> Where's that? 329. >> Yeah. 3209. >> 32. Oh, there it No, I can do that. [clears throat] Um, I would like to make a a motion approving resolution 2599. >> All right. Got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> All right. I'm going to give it to people. >> Okay. >> All right. Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed. All right. That passes as well. Thank you again. >> All right. All right, number nine, we got council discussion and action on appointment of city coun uh city commission members. Uh just so the public knows what we're doing. Uh our city has basically kind of rubber stamped um our commission members. So when you think about parks or planning or um docks, we've, you know, if if your term's up, we basically just kind of you want to do it again, you're going to, you know, get another term. Um through our priorities list this year, we thought, you know, is that the best way to do it or is, you know, should we kind of see if there's other people out there that want that might want to do it or um we we probably already have the best people, but maybe there's another person that's, you know, worth a shot. So, um, what we did actually is we said, uh, back in the fall, we approved a, uh, resolution that the council will interview, uh, applicants. And so, if your term's up, we're going to interview you if you want to do it again, as well as any members of the public uh, that live in mound that that show interest. So, um, we passed that a few months ago, and tonight basically kind of was our first action on that. So, in our conference room earlier today, uh we interviewed two people for the for the parks um spot. There's one open position into the next year for uh someone that left and doesn't want to uh renew or can't because I think they're going to be out of the country. Um so, the council has uh decided uh we we interviewed the two, both were phenomenal. Uh nothing against the ones that don't make it, but uh we've decided uh for the parks position to nominate Paula Larson as our person. So does that does it have to be any official thing or just talk about it? >> A motion and a vote, I would say. >> Okay. So I will make a motion to nominate Paul Larson for our parks commission open position. >> A second. >> And we got a second. Any discussion on that? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. I. >> I. Those opposed. All right. So, congrats, Paula. >> And uh our other position, we had four candidates. Uh one was uh a person that's already on planning and uh the other three were not but wanted a shot at it. And again, we interviewed all four and again, great applicants. I mean, really is these aren't easy decisions. Um uh we did decide to go with the current uh person who's on there. Um >> Kristen Young. >> Kristen Young. I remember her first name. Remember last time. Uh so we are going to renominate uh or nominate her. Uh she's been on planning already. So she'll get another term here. So um again, I'll just make a motion to nominate Kristen Young to our planning uh vacancy. And can I get a second? >> Second. >> All right. Any other discussion on that? >> All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. >> Those opposed. All right. That passes. And again, we're going to uh if if the people watch this tomorrow that applied again, I think I speak for all you guys and saying that thank you. Uh there will be more openings uh I know next year as well as >> for for parks. >> For parks. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, so please please uh try again. >> All right, number 10. We got comments and reports from council members. Council member Pew, >> I have nothing to report. >> All right, council member Mc >> Pardon me. >> Uh, do you have anything to report? [laughter] >> No, I don't. >> We're on the home stretch here. All right. Council member Kalano. >> Um, I don't have anything to report. I just haven't asked if we can um can we invite someone from the JC's to come to one of our meetings. I was just looking like for when we were doing consent before like they contribute a lot and I don't we've never had them here. >> They would want to come and kind of just speak about what they do. You think that'd be cool? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> We should consider doing that for the Lions, too, because they donate. >> Yeah. Rotary. Yeah. >> Yeah. They they came >> last year or year. >> Two years ago. >> Yeah. And I just couldn't I when I was reading it, I couldn't recall ever meeting you or you know having them here. So >> I don't Yeah. I don't think Jason >> not just to say thanks but to learn what they how we could help them more maybe. >> Yeah. >> That's all I got. >> All right. Uh Council Member Perrick. >> Um tomorrow morning we have a police commission meeting at 8:30, I believe. Is that correct? >> Is it 8? Okay. Sorry. It's on my calendar though. [clears throat] >> Um, and I want to thank everyone. I guess this is my last meeting of the year. Yeah. >> And um, it's been very educational. I encourage everyone in the community to listen and um, collaborate with all of us. I think it's a very informative role. Um, and we try to do as much as we can to get out and reach out to the community. Um, but there's a certain amount of that that they own and they have to participate. We can't force them. Right. >> Right. >> So, um, that being said, I want to thank everyone, including staff. They've been very, um, accommodating and helping me get up to speed. >> Um, the other thing I noticed, I was reading my little magazine that we get from the League of Minnesota Cities. And this one's for you, Jason. >> Oh, >> not to put you on the spot, but I noticed, um, you know, we're in that genre of talking to our community and, you know, being transparent. Um, Minatrista does kind of like a state of the union or, you know, state of the city. >> Um, I think that's something maybe we should look into as part of >> a bus tour actually. She puts you on a bus and they drive around. >> No, no, no. Well, this is I think they have a meeting. I The article I was reading it was at one of the golf courses or something. They had to expand it. But um they invite the community to come and the mayor and the council participate and it's kind of a interactive session kind of a reception to begin with and then it opens up and the mayor makes a presentation and kind of very similar to what Leila just presented as far as you know the financial status but also what our initiatives are for the coming year. Um, obviously we can't do that in 2026 because that would be really difficult to get, you know, set up and everything. Yeah. >> But just something like that that maybe we might want to consider in our 2026 planning initiative >> like one of our priorities. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm do it. Um, >> I guess the reason just being defensive, the reason why I haven't done it is it seems like we do the state of the city every council meeting at the end of the meeting. [laughter] >> Right. Well, and I think that >> I do. Right. No, but what I'm saying is I think when [clears throat] I read the article, the person that actually wrote it used to work for the city of Minatrist, I believe. >> And so I think it was informative in the sense that it does create more of a collaborative environment >> um in the sense it's relaxed. It's a you know I mean I would envision it being something like maybe like doing it at um the you know the Gillespie Center the initial one and inviting the public in to see what kind of turnout we get. >> Um >> having a town hall meeting >> like a town hall meeting. Yeah, in other words, where we have, you know, >> a lot of people present, we could, you know, invite some of our other representatives to be, you know, there as well. But the primary focus would be about the city of Mount. I mean, I constantly get questions and it's the same questions from various people and no matter how much we try to communicate it on our website and in our newsletter, they just don't hear it. So, how do we get them, you know, give them the opportunity to actually come forward and speak, but it also gives us an opportunity to be transparent and put our information out there? And it's maybe a couple hours out of one evening out, you know, >> it's a good idea. >> So, remember on October 1st, I did the Gillespie. >> Yep. >> Speaking event. And you came, right? >> Yeah. Um 20 >> 20 some people. >> You didn't have as many as the first year. >> Thank you. But but [laughter] you know you know but if we can get it up again you know get up. >> They'll they'll help us advertise. I know we can our Facebook is >> because she really did she had your picture all over town. Every place I'd go there's a picture. >> Yeah. I mean >> at a certain point I I after doing this how many years it's like here we're talking about our finance in our budget >> and all I think about all year is I don't I want to lower it by 6%. I want to raise it by 6%. >> Right. And I don't, you know, I'm I'm I'm like I'm surprised nobody's here. >> Nobody cares enough to be here in person. >> Are they gonna come on and listen and be yab about something >> part of this? And I mean, I'm sure Leila's up to it. >> You want you want to do a banquet? >> Welcome. And we'll give you something else to do. No, but I mean promoting it on social media and, you know, [clears throat] promoting it in advance >> so that you know, save the date, you know, all this kind of effort really helps. And maybe it's even, you know, doing it in the summertime when the weather's a little bit better and people are more willing to come out and that they can walk to the event. You know, that promotes that part. You know, how about an evening stroll? >> We could do it in Lost Lake Commons. >> Yeah. >> It's a really good idea. >> Lawn chairs mountain picnic. I don't know. >> You know, ice cream place can sell ice cream cones and >> I have to kind of partake in ours every year at work. And it's a good idea. It's a good way to meet people and get out there and then if you just have like free apps, everyone will show up. >> It's a good idea. >> Mayor, council member, be careful. [laughter] >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Because I helped run our state of the city in Hopkins and all of our council members ate very very spicy hot wings um and answering questions about the city. So, there are very fun ways to do it. Um the city of Richfield does like an ice cream social as part of their city. Um yeah, the Hopkins typically we would do like sketches or skits that the council members would present in. So we did a parks and wreck theme, we did wheel of fortune that we like game shows, things like that. We last year we did hot ones which is a YouTube series. Um so our council ate very very progressively spicier hot wings while answering questions about the community. Um we did it in our art center which sits about 600 people and we would have a pretty solid turnout on that. um we paired it with a like a taste of the city. So we gave a stipen to restaurants to um to vend and give out free food. So definitely ways to do it that are not as boring as a council meeting can be sometimes. Um so it's something that we could put on the on the goal setting for next year is to start to think about a more fun way to do it. I like I love a a outside, you know, summer situation perhaps more than January. But, >> um, yeah, I would say just be careful what you wish for because I can come up with some fun ideas, but like >> I don't a lot of the state of the city things are that, you know, that first quarter just, you know, kind of perfect for the new year. I don't like the mayor or the governor does it and you know all all the different mayors and I I know first of all I I haven't been invited to some of the other ones not because they don't want me but just it's not our city's not included in their little debate that they do >> but I know like Tonka Bay and Shore you know they do like their own little um state of the you know then they just go around and ask questions like they have a moderator and just kind of like the League of Women Voters type deal >> again you never see the audience So you don't know who's actually there. Um but then it is on social and you know the internet and stuff so people can see it. So yeah I mean I'm open >> or we could do it in the fall. I mean the liquor store it looks like already bought an October October Fest costume for Bavarian. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Oh he he'll do anything German fest. >> There we go. Anyway, moving on. I I regress. Sorry. Well, I think if personally, you know, tactfully, at least for our first one, >> I think we would have to copy, you know, what Minotaurs does at the golf course. Not at the golf course, but like Gillespie because it's inbound, >> but they do it at the golf course in Midris. >> And I think they charge for it so that they're the cities aren't paying for it like any like apps or any >> which is tola's point, you know, it might be kind of fun to do it with the restaurant. Yeah, it would be. So, we're not >> let them set up booths and food available >> and they'd love that too, >> right? Cuz everybody liked the Christmas or not the Christmas, the holiday event and we didn't have, you know, there was that was one of the suggestions. We needed food. >> Yeah. >> So, maybe it's kind of a combination >> that helps bring people out because well, you get a >> Well, it becomes more social, right, >> for them. >> So, yeah, I'm I'm open to that. If people want to hear me talk or that's [laughter] fine. We'll come up >> more than 20 people. >> We'll get a PowerPoint. Well, I mean, whenever we start doing budgeting. So, I mean, obviously August, it's hotter than Hades. We probably don't want to do it in August. Maybe it would be a fall event where we're already starting to plan out the budget. >> I I would say personally January, February, March >> because then you're setting up the year. You do have people that >> it's cold. What am I going to do? I'm going to go get a dinner tonight. In the spring and the fall, you're >> I don't think people are going to show up as much >> because it's like I'm out in the boat. Am I am I gonna go to that >> drag tonight or go on the boat? >> I don't know. >> Well, you could you could definitely make it a lovely event, fun event, too, in the in the winter. I mean, make it warm and inviting and >> we'll leave the fun department to Leila and you'll come up with something. >> Well, do we want to chat about this again in our priorities next year or are we do we want to say >> let's start thinking about what we're doing? >> We just add it to the priorities. >> Yeah. But I mean, if if we're going to do like March or something, should we start having some brainstorming? So then when we should we add the priorities like right this minute? So then they got a month to think about and then come back with some ideas already. >> Depends on what time of year you want to do it. I mean, if you're going to try to do it by March, we got to start now. If you want to make or fall, we can do it later. >> We could just make the priority to start planning to have it like you said, even if it's not till 2027. I mean, >> isn't that what you were looking at doing in 2027? >> Yeah, mayor, members of the council, I think that, you know, one thing I also want to start working on for 2026 is like an annual report that would come out at the end of the year. So, I think putting those two things together, that's typically in Hopkins, we would actually hand out that annual report um that we'd have printed out at state of the city. So, um I think you know given our vacancy in the finance department, um I would suggest you know pushing it to 2027 and that way you have a whole year to really holistically like look at what other communities do and figure out what you would want that to look like. >> I I think if we're going to do if we're going to do it this year, we should do it quick. Does it have to be amazing and like doing skits and stuff? No. I think you only get one initial, you know this, you only get one initial. >> Yeah. >> We want to think about it for a year. That's fine. >> So if we do it and we do a good job of it. >> Yeah. >> I think then it incites an incent you know incentive work but it gets everyone involved and you know to do that we have to be good right out of the gate. We can't just say okay let's [clears throat] let's have tea at Gillespie Center and everybody come because they're not going to show up. To your point >> and it's kind of halfass. And to Leila's point, >> being without Noah right now, you've already got a full plate >> going into you've got a full plate already for 2026. So, I agree to do it right. You get one shot at it and make it a priority >> um for 2027 and just make it a really great event. The other thing too is I I've seen some councils do the state of city right before their meeting or right after or during their meeting and they do like a presentation. >> Um a lot of the smaller cities will do that. >> I'm just saying this is what they do. They get it done >> and they say hey this is update because you know we just talked about finance but >> what about fire? What about police? you know, all the different things. And then they it's, you know, it takes a while, 45 minute, >> but [snorts] you could have stations, you know, for people to actually make it more engaging for them to walk to like the fire department and get that from them. >> Yeah. If it's going to be that complex, then yeah, we got to punt it till the fall or next year. >> I mean, I think it should be Yeah. I mean, we do the holiday event and that's big and everybody loves it. You know, how do we transition into this being maybe some other time during the year? I mean, I don't know. Those are all things I think we probably need to discuss it. >> We should keep talking about it. >> Yeah. >> I think there's >> Yeah, >> because I do like adding the fire department, adding the public works >> and even the Arno Police >> kind of interesting. We have so many great stats >> that people might find in interesting. >> We can have the >> And I I'd also like public works. Yeah, >> because people love look at Jess. He's like, "No, no, >> it's not what I'm I promise." >> It was looking desperate. >> No, I love the idea. And I'll even I'll even show them. [laughter] >> Well, maybe then we should have it in March because then everyone should there's snow removal. >> Yeah, that's right. [laughter] >> That's a first the first thing day one. >> When I was on as mayor, they said, "Well, this one to happen was And I'm like, "Oh, I control the snow out of the sky." Oh my god. >> And I'm not driving the plow. >> Great powers. >> Sorry I derailed that. But anyway, yeah. Moving on. That's all I have. >> You just don't know. I mean, we have the best snow removal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He was shoveling right before we got here. >> I don't know if you coordinated that or what. >> Just remember they got a meeting today. Unfortunately, >> Ryan was here, so I'm sure he >> made sure it was clear. >> All right, that was the end of that. Okay. So, for me, um, workshop, do we have workshop dates yet? >> Did we pick those? >> Well, no, but >> Well, we don't meet again until January 14th. >> 13th to 14th. >> My assumption is we're going to either have a workshop that first meeting for starting out our just goal setting. >> It's not going to be long enough. We may have uh we still need to do D docs commission vacancies too. So somewhere around that first meeting, we'll have to sort of navigate that. Um we used two workshops for goal setting last year. If we I'll probably just talk to you probably between now and then. Well, the problem is I I got to start putting something on the counter or it's going to fill up. I'm really busy in January. >> So, >> in the next couple weeks, we need to get a date or I just someone's got to pick something. >> I just plan for a workshop before each meeting and then >> Yeah, but that's not We're not going to have enough time for an hour. >> I know. Cuz one's not enough. So, >> no, I want to do one where we show up at 6 >> at some other night. >> Oh, okay. And then for the priorities, we don't have like a >> you know, >> for the priorities. >> Yeah. If it goes to nine, then it goes to nine. >> But we could have a workshop before the meeting for the docs thing on the second meeting in January. Maybe >> why don't we go to the environmental camp, >> the boys and girls club camp on a Saturday morning. >> Why not? >> Don't we have a a meeting on the 23rd of December? [laughter] >> No. >> Well, I'm just saying, you know. >> So, this is our last meeting in December >> of this year. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. more a more Christmy outfit for heaven's sakes. >> Well, we'll wait. [laughter] >> You can still come. >> I thought for sure we had another meeting. >> Okay. So, >> Oh, that's a lot to cover then in January. I can see why January is going to be >> So, we're meeting on the 13th, right? >> Mhm. >> So, in planning the >> So, just throwing it out there. I mean, what about like Monday the 12th? Mondays work for me. >> Okay. Monday the 12th for a workshop. >> Six o'clock workshop >> for Monday. What? January 12th. >> Priorities workshops. >> Make sure I'm on the notice. Yeah. >> I don't know. I got to look at my calendar. >> January 12th. So Monday. >> No, I feel like I'm out of town, but I'll let you know first thing in the morning. >> Okay. >> I feel like I'm out of town. you possibly a second and fourth Mondays are >> but it's sometimes they have it sometimes they don't not >> well we go >> I'm first and third I'm open first and third Monday is always open okay >> it's a Monday >> so it looks like it would be Monday the 15th so I'm open the 5th and the 20th >> Monday the 5th >> yeah whatever >> fifth >> Monday the 5th yeah >> yeah maybe the fifth then if the 12th doesn't work >> dude we can't do the 12th 12th. >> Uh, she might be out of town. Maybe. >> Okay, >> that works. >> Let's just let's just pencil in for the fifth cuz I >> pencil in the fifth and 12th till >> Well, fifth for now. >> Okay. >> And then you tell us. I think the three of us are >> Well, no. I'll know when I get home 10 minutes. >> Okay. >> I just got to look at my calendar. I I don't use my phone for calendars. >> I I would prefer the 12th, but I can do either. I don't know if that if anybody else cares, but >> Jesse, I'm open both. So, okay. Um, so anyway, the 5th or the 12th at 6, just get us what whichever day works better for you. >> And what is that appointment going to be for? >> That's the priorities list. >> Oh, the priorities. Got it. >> I want to don't want to have an expiration. So, if we want to talk for a couple hours, we can do that. >> Okay. I just didn't know what it was. >> You're going to be there till 10:00. >> Well, we can say not our stuff. >> Yeah. >> Or whatever. >> Um, >> but an hour is not going to be long enough. I know that. Uh, and then I think that was it. All I had do I have anything else? >> That's the end of the meeting. So, [laughter] all right. Uh, thanks again for everybody. Thanks for your hard work this year. >> Uh, thank you. >> Merry Christmas. We'll see you next year. >> Uh, take a motion to adjourn. >> So moved. >> Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. I. >> Those opposed? I return.