Here in. Hey, welcome. Thank you for coming tonight. My name is Jesse Struve. I’m the director of public works and city engineer for the city of Crystal. Uh, other staff member. We have. City manager. Uh, we do have mayor Julie Deshler in the background as well. Uh, the goal for this meeting, um, I’m going to give kind of a quick presentation. Uh, hopefully quick. I’ll try to keep it as quick as I can. Uh, there’ll be time, especially with the amount of people we have here to answer any questions you have. Um, yeah. So we’ll just kind of jump into things a little bit. Uh, the meeting is for, uh, to talk about infrastructure funding. And so, uh, just to kind of give you a system overview of what we have in Crystal. We have about 70 miles of local roadways. Uh, we have another 17.5 miles of, uh, municipal state aid, which is essentially local roadways, except with a little bit higher volume that we collect some state funds for. Uh, we have roughly 87 miles of water. Main pipe, 87 miles of sanitary sewer pipe, and 64 miles of storm sewer pipe underneath our ground. So while you don’t normally think that there’s that much underneath all our roadways, that’s, uh, we do have a significant amount. Um, as many people may know, uh, all 70 miles of local roads were reconstructed between 1996 and 2007. Um, the roads were mainly funded utilizing special assessments, uh, to the uh, benefiting properties. And the city had to do some bonding, uh, to kind of front those costs and then, uh, collect the special assessments to, to to pay off the bonds. Uh, one thing to note is, uh, only limited utilities. Uh, were were done when those roads were reconstructed. Uh, so while the 70 plus miles of local roads were done, uh, the 80 some miles of sanitary sewer and water main were not. And so, um, one thing to keep in mind is life expectancy. Expectancy of a new road. Uh, it’s not just we do it once and it’s good for the rest of your life. It has a lifespan of about 35 to 50 years. As long as we do appropriate maintenance to kind of continue that life cycle on, um, the majority of our water main and sanitary sewer were all installed, uh, in about a 15 year period from 1954 to 1968. So our, uh, life expectancy of our water main and sanitary sewer, uh, is roughly 70 to 90 years old. Um, as you can tell, we’re already in that kind of, uh, lower part of that life expectancy on a lot of our water mains throughout the community. Um, moving forward, uh, when we’re designated roadways, which which roads are we going to be reconstructing? Uh, we’re going to be using kind of a data approach where we prioritize not only the condition of the roadways themselves, uh, that you see in drive on, but the infrastructure under the ground. Under the ground, uh, what are the age of the water main? Um, in the sanitary sewer? Have we had a number of water main breaks? That’s a, uh, a good indicator of what is the pipe condition underground. So all these little red dots you see are water main breaks that have occurred in the city of Crystal over the last 15 plus years. Um, as water mains age and, uh, get towards into that life expectancy, uh, you’ll start seeing breaks start to increase. At this point we have not seen like significant increases from year to year. Uh, they’ve been averaging in the 5 to 10 per year. Uh, and another thing to keep in mind is it costs about 10 to 20,000. Every time we have a water main break, uh, by the time we dig up the roadways, pay for overtime. Uh, sometimes we have to hire contractors to come in to assist. Assist us? If it’s, a a larger pipe or on a busier roadway. And as the infrastructure ages, those breaks become more and more and more so, um, we want to come up with a program. Uh, to, to start replacing a lot of our water main. Uh, we’re doing some, but we want to kind of start expanding that so we can, um, kind of avoid while we’re not at a crisis right now. Um, if we continue to on the path that we’re on, uh, we very well could get to a crisis point where we get a lot of water main breaks, and obviously we want to do what’s best. Stewards of the money. Uh, these impacts to residents. Because. And businesses. Because every time one of these breaks happen, we have to shut a number of homes off. A lot of times it happens, right? When people want to take showers and get to work. And it seems at the worst opportune times. But so the way to do that is to replace our our system, uh, before it gets to the failure point. These next few graphs that we have show historical increases of cost of construction. So this graph was put together by MnDOT where they collect data. Um, they’ve been collecting data since 2011 on what does it cost? So this is grading excavation. So when we dig out underneath the roadways, you can see in 2011, um, it was about a little over $5 or about $5 in 2025. Uh, we’re in that almost $14 range. So it’s gone up almost three times annual rate of inflation of approximately 7.6%. Um, other than to keep in mind, is over the same time period, the average inflationary numbers through the US was about 2.6. So some of these items in this case is about three times faster than what you’re seeing for inflation happening. Uh, aggregate base, what we put on underneath the road before we pave it, um, has had some cost fluctuations as well. Um, not quite as much as the previous one, but still 5.4 or about double what the rate of inflation has been over the same time period. Uh, curb and gutter, uh, has had pretty significant increases as well. Again, two and a half times as much as the rate of inflation over this 14 year period. Uh, bituminous surface and cost of putting it in between the minutes has been this was the one that was most closely related to the rate of inflation over this time period. So it’s only about 2.8% annual, uh, increases. What are we doing for our existing funding? Um, we use property taxes. Uh, we have some special assessment revenue from some of the special assessments that are still out there from the street reconstruction. Uh, interest in investments. Um, MSA. So MSA is the designation when when you buy a gas, you pay the gas tax. Uh, that gets distributed through cities and counties throughout the state of Minnesota. And, uh, that’s what the municipal state aid, uh, designation is. So that’s funds that we get through the the, gas tax. And this is only a portion we get, um, almost or just over $1 million total, an MSA. But this is for what we can use for these roadways. Uh, the other 800,000, 700,000 is used when we reconstruct MSA roadways. That gets applied to those projects. And then we also the main contributor is the enterprise funds. When you pay your water bills, your sanitary bills and your storm bill that goes into an enterprise fund and that’s used to fund the replacement of the pipes, but also some of the roadways as well. So we get about $3.6 million, a little over that. Now everyone’s going, hey, that’s a lot of money. It sounds like a lot of money. Well, unfortunately, um, we use majority of that on our utility reconstruction, but also about 800,000 to Milan overlay. And that’s when some maintenance practices, when we grind off the top two inches of asphalt, uh, do some curb replacement and then put two inches back down. And so that’s happens every 15 ish years, 20 years, you’ll see, uh, cities coming in to do that kind of work as well. But we need approximately about $6 million a year. Uh, and that’s just to get on to a 70 year replacement schedule. Um, everyone’s like, well, that seems like a lot. And it it is. But to do one mile of residential road with all the utilities and services under the ground, it costs about $5 million a little bit. There’s a range depending on the roadway can range from, uh, three and a half to $5.5 million, but it’s generally in that upper floors just to do one mile of residential road. And we have, uh, 70 some miles of that. So you can understand what that means. Uh, in terms of what if we had to replace everything in one year? Um, our existing funding, this shows this isn’t an overall what the next ten years of reconstruction is going to be, because we’re still defining and going through and setting our new CIP. But we can do about a half mile a year is what it amounts to. And so here’s a ten year, uh, ten year look at of what we’re currently planning with our existing funding, uh, which is a 140 year replacement cycle, maybe even a little bit stronger than that, which again, when you start looking at the life cycle of our water main sanitary sewers, that doesn’t align really well. And so that’s, that’s the point of this meeting is, um, we’re seeing some issues and we need to start accelerating and dedicating some funding, or at least that’s my recommendation. Um, and what does that mean? So. Oh, one, two. So if we got an additional 1.7 to $2 million, um, we can bump that up to where we can do about a mile of road. Uh, because our utility funds can be used to replace more utility areas. Uh, the additional funding will pay for the road section. Uh, they’ll get us up closer to that 5.7 to $6 million range of funding. Uh, and that’s what this this graphic shows is. I mean, it’s still, while daunting. And you see, there’s still a lot of white on this map. Uh, you can still see there’s significantly more area on the southwest corner of this community that we can, uh, tackle. And again, this gets us on. It’s about one seventh of the community, so it gets us closer to that 70 year replacement cycle. So what kind of funding options does the city have to kind of generate revenue or, uh, funds to do some of these projects? Um, we can do what we did in the previous round of, uh, reconstruction projects where we utilized special assessments and bonding. Uh, some of the challenges are you can only charge up to the benefit of the property, meaning, uh, we can’t necessarily come in and say, okay, it’s going to cost us $5 million to do the project. There’s 100 houses each pay $50,000. That’s not how it works. Because, uh, if the benefit is only 10 to 15,000 of additional house value by doing the new road, that’s all we can special assess. Um, special assessments. Again, you know, you’re probably looking at $10,000 or more. Uh, if we go down that route, um, residents can pay it off all at once. Or you can put that onto your property taxes and pay some interest. Uh, the city would also need to pay for the project upfront. So we’d also still have to either have some cash on hand to pay for it upfront and collect the revenue from the special assessments or bond. Uh, for some of those funds as well. Um, and really, the only the special assessments will only cover a portion of the actual road costs. And the city still has to come up with funding to cover the additional difference. Um, some of the benefits, um, again, you know, you can be. Well, are these really benefits? But the benefiting properties are the ones that will be paying that bill. It’s not a city wide approach. Um, you don’t have to pay until the project happens in front of your house. Uh, meaning, you know, sometimes people live in a house for a long period of time and move out. And then the new people I’ll send a road project comes in, and they’re the ones who have to pay for it versus the person that lived there for 30 years. Uh, some of the drawbacks are obviously a high upfront cost to residents within the project limits. We have to expend funds to actually prove the benefit, meaning it costs us tens of thousands of dollars to to get, um, assessments of people’s houses. What’s the valuation now? Currently, what’s the evaluation after a new road would come in that gives us kind of what the benefit of the house would be. Uh, but you have to do that kind of throughout the project and different house styles. Um, and also the meetings and getting projects approved are can be very difficult, not only for residents, because no one’s real happy to get a $10,000 bill. At least most people that I’ve run into aren’t happy about a $10,000 bill. Uh, it makes it’s hard on staff because the meetings that we have are very contentious. It’s not a, hey, what can we do to to work through this project? It’s, um, we don’t think the project should happen because the roads are fine how they are. And and it’s difficult for the council, so it’s difficult for the council to have a bunch of residents come in, be against projects. Um, because they have a large bill associated with it. And again, it doesn’t cover the full amount. So we still need other revenue sources. Um, another option is we can increase the tax levy. We’ll just tax people more. Um, one thing is if we did a $2 million tax levy, um, it would increase it by 8.7%. So that does not include any kind of inflationary cost for all the other items that you have. So if the city already had a nominal, um, we’ll just say 5% levy increase, that would mean this would be a 13.7 levy increase. So, um, some of the benefits are, you know, all the properties in the community are paying for it in smaller increments to create an additional fund that then can be managed and used for their projects moving forward? Uh, we wouldn’t require additional bonding dollars because we’d have the funds at hand or possibly a bonding early on to build up the fund, and then we can manage it moving forward. Uh, and then it also has dedicated funding source that will build a fund that staff can manage yearly, assuming that the city maintains that funding, uh, when it’s part of the levy. Um, yes. It’s dedicated to those projects now, but five, ten years, 20 years down the line when you get some different council’s priorities may change. And some of those levy dollars can be routed to other things. Some of the drawbacks is that it increases property taxes and the levy. Uh, that’s charged to the residents. Uh, future council could redirect the funds to other things. Uh, only properties who pay property taxes contribute. Meaning schools, places of worship and tax exempt properties. Uh, are not paying into the system. Um, another option that we can use to come up with additional revenues. Bonding. Uh, so we the city would take out bonds. Uh, it’d be spread out over 10 or 15 year payback periods. Um, but we would have to issue bonds for every project. Um, this will add to the expected levy, because these bonds would be paid back by the general fund levy. Uh, debt service costs would increase property taxes. Um, for a $2 million bond. Um, it because the bond payment. And we’ll get into some of the bond payments and a little bit on the next slide. I believe it’s approximately $26 per year, which everyone says, well, that’s not so bad, but if you have to do this every single year, for instance, if it happened ten years ago, where the bonds are exactly the same at $2 million, at the exact same interest rate. Um, because that that repayments over 10 or 15 years. So you’re still paying those high property taxes or that $26 every year until that bond is paid off over ten years. And so then at year ten, you’re paying ten years of those bonds. So it adds up to about $260 a year. And that’s again, if the bond that’s not accounting for interest or inflation, where if the bond was the exact same year after year, but it would likely have to go up every year to account for the inflation as well, to get the same benefit. Um, here’s a breakdown. Um, if we did a $2 million bond in 2026, uh, there are $140,000 in cost to issue and administer the bond. That’s just right off the bat. We have to pay that, uh, over the life of the bond, uh, with the interest rate that we have right now, we would pay anywhere between four, 450,000 to $700,000 in interest over 10 or 15 years, depending on what option we had. And the yearly payments would be about $250 for a ten year, 185,000 for a 15 year bond. But that equates to a one to or 0.8 to 1% of levy increase every year. Um, and it would be a cumulative meaning that it adds up until the first year bond is paid off after ten years. Some of the benefits is all the properties who pay taxes contribute because it is backed by the levy. Some of the drawbacks is it does have a tax levy increase of about 1% every year. That we do that. Again, that’s based on we have the exact same bond request, the same payment, same interest. Um, and we would have to pay a significant amount of interest on those on those rates where, um, and it would be issued every year and subject to fluctuation and interest rates. Um, the other option that the city has is through Minnesota State Statute 216 B allows municipalities to charge utilities like gas and electric fees for using our public right of way. Um, this is called franchise fees. Uh, one thing that I want to make clear, uh, it’s a tax, right? I mean, those costs would get passed on to residents. Uh, that you would pay monthly with your gas and electric bills. Um, but it’s the state statute that allows us to do this, and they call it franchise fees. So that’s why we have to call it franchise fees. Uh, but I mean, it is it is a tax. There’s no ifs, ands or buts about that. Um, but some of the benefits are, um, for every $2 monthly in franchise fees, it generates about $250,000 annual. And that’s so that’s $2,002 per residential home. Um, some of the businesses in commercial districts will pay a higher rate than what, the residential. But we’re focusing mainly on residential. Um, but it’s also like a pay as you go. If you live here five years, you’re using the city roadways. For five years, you’re paying the franchise fees for five years. And then when that goes away, you don’t have a special assessment on your house, uh, that you generally have to pay off. Um, but it’s kind of a use as you go, uh, from a staff standpoint. We find that it’s easier to budget monthly amounts. Um, if we do 4 to $8 on a gas bill, $48 an electric bill. So that’s 8 or $16 a month total per resident. But per residential property. Um, that’s easier to budget than these larger bills that come either two times a year when you pay your taxes or if you get a special assessment. Um, that that large bill that would be spread out over 10 or 15 years. Uh, they’re paid by all properties, meaning, uh, places of worship, schools also would be subject to franchise fees and contribute. Um, if you have a gas meter, electric meter, you’d be applied to the franchise fees. Uh, this would be a dedicated funding source used strictly for transportation projects, Street reconstruction and overlay street maintenance. Um, those types of projects. Um, again, some of the benefits are easier to to budget monthly. It’s a dedicated funding. Um, if we need an a bond for a project or two early on to build up that pool of funds, because we get paid quarterly by the utility companies. Uh, those bonds would be paid back by the franchise fees versus being applied to the levy. So it would be a revenue bond collectively versus a general obligation bond. Um, and then again, all properties in crystal, including tax exempt properties, would be paying these fees. Some of the drawbacks. It’s still a tax. You’re still paying for it. So you know we want to make again that clear that uh that it is a tax that that residents will be paying. Uh, so our staff recommendation, uh, moving forward, uh, when we come back to the council and have discussions, we’ll be, uh, we feel franchise fees are the best route moving forward. Um, if we if it’s $8 per month, eight on your gas, eight on your electric, a total of $16 total a month. That would generate the $2 million or pretty close, um, that we think is needed now to get us on that 70 year replacements schedule. Um, dedicated funds means residents know where the funds are going. You’ll see it happen. You’ll see, uh, you know, it might take a while to get in front of some of the people’s houses because we can’t address all 70 miles at once. Uh, but you’ll see, you know, I mean, a mile of road being reconstructed every year, uh, a mile or two of roads being mill and overlaid and, and then when we come through and do that, um, you won’t be getting a special assessment, bill. And, uh, when we have those neighborhood meetings, it’s a much more, um, collaborative meeting versus confrontational because it’s. Well, we asked, you know, what things can we address with the project to, to make it better for people out there? I mean, we do that for all the projects, but when people are like, yeah, let’s let’s do it. We want some of these, uh, projects. Um, it’s a much more collaborative effort. Um, and then all all properties in Crystal will contribute to the infrastructure, not just the ones that pay property taxes. Um, potential scheduling is or potential schedule. Uh, we have our meeting over the fall, winter, and and recently we had the public outreach with the newsletters, uh, some articles and then the social media stuff. Uh, tonight we have the community feedback meeting. Um, there’ll be some meetings. Uh, work session, council meetings in the coming months. But then ultimately, sometime in probably August. And that can vary. Uh, that the council will, uh, look to try to make a decision on. Uh, again, staff is recommending franchise fees. That doesn’t mean that’s the route that’s going to happen. Uh, franchise. You know, the council will ultimately weigh here. What you guys are saying tonight. Hear feedback. Um, through some of the, uh, open meetings and and public hearings when they discuss this. Uh, and then choose or not choose an option on how to move forward with, uh, funding options. And if franchise fees is the method that will be ultimately designed. Uh, if we pass it in August or early September. Uh, the franchise fees could go into effect as early as January 1st, 2027. That would be the earliest that these would go into effect. Uh, they can be delayed further. Uh, especially if the council, uh, decides, hey, we need a little bit more time to consider options. Uh, discussions, that sort of stuff. Or we want to step in some of the franchise fees or start them a little bit later. Uh, but the earliest that it would happen would be on January 1st, 2027. Um. My contact information is here. Uh, I have cards at the table. If you want to take some left, too. Um, and then we can go into some question period. One thing I do want to make note is, uh, when we come out and have questions. Um, the point of the questions is, if you have questions about, hey, the funding, what we’re doing for the infrastructure. Uh, some of the costs. More than happy to be answering those types of questions. Uh, this isn’t going to be the appropriate time to have, like, a debate on why I’m an Adam and I are going to be, uh, recommending franchise fees. Uh, the time to do that would be when the council has those discussions. Um, because based on the information that I have on what I’ve done in past projects, I think franchise fees are the route that’s easiest for residents. It’s not that it’s easy, but it’s, uh, seems to be the best for budgeting and and being able to absorb some of those taxes. So with that, I think I got through relatively quickly. Um, as quick as possible. Anyways, hopefully I covered it. Uh, if you want to ask a question, please come up to the podium so that you can be on, uh, heard and on the recording. Otherwise, I have to repeat the question. Anyways, to state your name, your address. Um, you can tell me, direct me to move up and down to different slides. If you have questions on specific slides. And we can go that route. Hi, my name is Rachel. I live at 5955 Idaho. My question for the franchise fees is I noticed on the previous slide, I forget for which option it was, but that city council could redirect the funds elsewhere depending upon if the city council changes, right? Yep. With the franchise fees. Is that going to be guaranteed towards infrastructure and road? No matter what city council will be in? Uh, it would require the city council still can redirect those funds, but it’s a little bit more difficult. They would have to change the, uh, the ordinance and go through the process of changing the ordinance to. Because when we write the ordinance, it will be dedicated towards transportation type projects. And so it would they still can, but it would require some additional steps to do so. Okay. Thank you. And if you have more questions as well, we got probably with the amount of people will have plenty of time to address any questions people have. So. Uh, Andy McLaughlin 5212 Maryland. Um, so I guess the question on the bonding kind of right before that, it almost looked like we’d be paying like 25% in fees and and interest and all that. Is that right? Or. Yeah. Well, I was just saying it’s a lot of it varies on the interest rates. Okay. And what the fees are at the time. Uh, just as an example, when we, the city did, they issued about uh, $50 million in bonds over the last, you know, the ones that were still we have a couple more years of still paying off the previous ones, um, for these when we had the assessments. Um, but only 40 million of that was the actual bond. There’s about 10 million in interest over the you know, it’s about a 25 year between all of them. Um, so it really depends. Some of the bonds were, you know, 4% interest, some are at, you know, 2%. It just so it depends on what interest rate we get at the time based on what the market interest rates are. It can really make a difference. So it’s there’s a time and a place to to do that. You know bonding does make sense because it’s more fair for the people who are paying that debt service while they’re here. Um, today’s dollar isn’t as much as the value of it changes over time. So if we’re saving, as we have been for paying for cash with everything, um, you know, you’re paying taxes this year for a project that might be in five years, as you saw with the inflation. That dollar doesn’t get us there. So the there’s pros and cons to it. But the bonding specifically um, it really can vary. So this is kind of the higher end where it’s in that 2,530%, um, you’re paying interest. Um, like with all, all types of borrowing essentially. So and this is based on an actual bond, if we would go out today on or you’re not just we’re not making it up. We sent it to others who came back and gave us an actual if we did a $2 million bond today, I believe it was. I can’t remember the interest rate right offhand, but it was around 4% over that. And these would be what the actual numbers would be for that bond. Uh, second question, um, we’re new to the area. Are there do we still have lead pipes? Uh, yeah, we do not. So not, uh, we are not aware of any lead pipes. I mean, there may be some internally in people’s houses, uh, that were. But we are not aware of any houses with lead pipes in the city of Crystal. We don’t have any lead services. Okay. Uh, none of our mains have led. Um, we’re not again. We’ve done testing. And when we replace water meters, we check. Uh, we don’t have any inventory of lead pipes in the city of Crystal. It doesn’t mean it’s not there, but. Not that. You know. Not that we’re aware of. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Hi, Jill. Shull, 6516 40th. I have two questions. Number one would be of those 70 miles of utilities, some of that’s been replaced. There’s been a lot of utility work in several areas. Is that so? We’ve done I would say we’ve we’ve done over the last five years. We’ve done some reconstructions down in this area I think. Can you see my mouse. Yeah. And kind of the southern parts that south of Valley Park. Um, it probably, I don’t know exactly offhand, but it’s probably in that 2 to 3 mile range is what we’ve done. Okay. Thank you. And the second question with the franchise fees, could you go to that slide please. So. This one, this one. So you estimate um budgeting um 8 to $16 for gas and electric. That could change depending on costs as well. Correct. Correct. So we uh I mean, if you had what my recommendation is today, obviously I’m going to be advocating for the $8 on each one. So 16 total. Uh, but I also know the realities of what that means. I mean, there’s, um, over 200 communities in Minnesota that do franchise fees of various amounts. Uh, if we did get up to that 16, we would be one of the, if not the highest in the state of Minnesota. Uh, so but at the same point, I mean, I have to advocate what, um, uh, what I’m seeing, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s what the council is going to decide. It likely will be lower than that as well. Um, yes. So, yeah, the second question, too, I think that was that was both that was both. Okay. Hi. My name is Katie Hegel. I’m at 4545 Hampshire Avenue North. And I have a question kind of staying on the franchise fees. I have a question about utility bills. Um, and I realize you’re not the utility company, so it’s okay if you can’t answer. But, um, because we have laws in Minnesota, the name escapes me. But like, the cold weather laws, right? Where the utility companies can’t shut off your heat during the winter months, whatever. They have to put you on a payment plan. If you can’t pay your bill. My question is, have has the council considered that, um, would that jeopardize the funding source if, like a certain amount of residents, let’s say, can’t pay their utility bills? Like, let’s say it’s 5% or whatever? Yeah. Um, how does that work with the franchise fees? Uh, the franchise fees would still accumulate with the utility bill. And so if you get on a payment plan, that would also involve the franchise fees, I would believe it doesn’t impact that. No shutting off in the winter rules. So, um, the city can’t come in and say like, hey, you didn’t pay the franchise fee part of this. Now we get to shut your gas or electric off. That’s not how it works. So it’s still all considered part of your utility bill. So all those agreements would still apply? Sure. Thank you. Um, and I guess my follow up question would be, would that jeopardize, um, the funding source, like from the City of Crystal’s perspective, where it’s like, oh, no. Like, we’re not collecting as much franchise fees as we thought we would. Does that make sense? Yep. It does. Um, you know, I mean, it may be to a small percentage. Um, I don’t know how many homes or properties are on that account, so I can’t necessarily speak on how much it’s going to be. Uh, will it impact maybe a little bit? Yeah. I mean, it could. I don’t think it will be enough to significantly impact our project or the plan moving forward. And then ultimately those fees and bills will get collected and it just may get spread out over more time. Sure. Thank you. Good evening. Uh, Alex Willard, 4209 Florida Avenue North. Um, what? I guess my first question of probably many is what factors are you considering when deciding, um, where and when to replace a lot of this stuff? Obviously, I’m sure there’s a schedule in terms of when were they last replaced, especially the water mains, for example. Um, but I mean, what does that schedule look like? Is it just a as needed basis or. Um, and then also when is this plan to how far out do you make that plan of when you could, you know, be issuing assessments or when you could be, you know, issuing these, these certain um, taxes or whatever. Yeah. And so, uh, I’ll address the first one first. Uh, how do we decide what areas that we’re going to go into? And we look at, uh, the road condition ratings is one factor. Um, so this is we’re in the in the process of updating this data. Some of this data is relatively old. So I’ve been with the city for just two years now. And, uh, this summer we’re likely going to be we did some work on this last year. Uh, we’re likely to do more this year to get better road data. Um, on the street services itself. Uh, but we also look at, um, this one is is kind of the water main break history. Uh, because that really indicates, um, kind of what’s the pipe really going to looking like under the ground if it’s starting to have a number of fractures and breaks, that that means that it’s further along. Uh, in most cases than areas. Uh, when. You start to interrupt. So when you fix those, that’s more of a stop gap than it is a like a true replacement. No. So that’s, that’s we may replace a couple feet of pipe, eight feet of pipe, ten feet of pipe, but it’s as truly putting a Band-Aid. Sometimes it’s putting a sleeve over top, which is like if it’s a small crack or hole, it’s literally like a big Band-Aid that goes over top just to stop the leak. But that does not, uh, it’s not putting in wholesale pipe in areas. It’s just very small repairs. That makes sense. And, um, you know, in terms of planning, I’m trying to get back down. We try to put together a it smells. Like the battery must be going dead. Uh, we try to put together, like, a a ten year plan of areas that we’re looking at doing. But what that really means is, so we, we, we put together ten years of going, hey, here’s our based on the data on the surface and the condition of the pipes and on the sanitary sewer is not leaking a lot of water in groundwater in, um, these are the areas we think we should address. But what that really means is year one. So in this case, when we put together our cap for this coming year, 2027 through, um, 2036, um, we’re really locking in 2027 projects and maybe 28 project. And, uh, because there’s so many other things, all sudden we could start seeing a bunch of water main breaks in another area that maybe was scheduled for six years out. But now we’re like, hey, we need to move that up into the list, and some of these other ones can go back further. Um, so it’s really when we do a ten year cap, we base it on the amount of funding that we have and projected funding, uh, to get the accurate areas. Uh, but the first two years are really going to be locked in. But then years after that can move around a little bit. Um. So if assessments are issued, is it typically one year kind of notice you give to homeowners or is it. Or we would be. Best case and worst case scenario when that typically happens. Yeah. So it depends on the project. Sometimes uh, with some of my old communities, it would be kind of like we would get noticed like two years in advance. Uh, most generally what you see is the year before. So if we were going to be special assessing the project in 2027, we’d be letting homeowners know in the fall of 2026 that we’re going to be moving forward with a project next year. And then there’s a very defined schedule that we have to follow for the it’s, uh, Minnesota State, the for 29 process. Right? Yeah. For special assessments to where we have to have specific public hearings, specific notices to residents, uh, and follow that process as well. So perfect. And then the levee, uh, the special assessment aren’t actually assessed till fall of the year after the project. Uh, because, um, so if it’s a 2026 project that it typically doesn’t get levied until either the fall of 2026, in November, if we wrap up the project early. But if there’s outstanding costs that we can’t, um, that we have to roll into 2027 to finish the project, then it would be levied in 2027. And your first, it would first appear on the taxes the following year. So if it’s levied in fall of 27, you would see it on your taxes. And uh, what is it? May of 2028. Okay. Okay. Um, the other thing you mentioned in the assessment area was, I guess, my question in the on the assessments is you mentioned benefit to the property. Like you can’t go above and beyond what that number is. How does that benefit to the property get approximated is kind of the first step of that. And then secondly is if that truly is a benefit to my property, is that something that actually gets reflected when I let’s just say I turn around and sell my house, like, is that a true hard, uh, benefit to my property, or is it more of a squishy gray area number that’s kind of issued to us that. Yeah, I can. We don’t really see a ROI on, let’s put it that way. I can address the first one. The first one is pretty, uh, what we do is we bring in, uh, an assessor to evaluate the houses. What’s the current, what’s the value of the property now? Uh, before the project. So, like, again, if we’re special assessing a project in 2027, uh, we would be bringing in assessors to evaluate a number of houses through the air. The area, uh, and, and then they come up with a determination of what that value of the house is. After the road project. So they they make the determination. It’s a the city isn’t involved. We hire an independent company to come in appraisal. That’s. Yeah. That make this a appraisal. It’s not like a city employee coming out okay. No, it’s not a city. We would go to a appraisal appraisal firm. They would do the event analysis, and then the city would make a determination. How close do you want to get to what that perceived value is? And then, uh, property owners have the right to appeal it. And there’s a whole process that you can appeal that process as well. Okay, okay. And that’s just if I can add one more thing that that is becoming a lot of communities are trying to get away from the special assessments because they are they’re very difficult to administer, but also because, as you saw with the cost increases, you know, the actual cost of the project is, you know, X dollars. But the benefit may not be that. And so the city still having to pay, you know, if you’re if you’re only assessing 50% of the cost, um, you know, the the city is paying 50% and the 50% is being assessed that if the the overall cost is going up greater than the benefit that we can justify legally, the city is still on the hook for that. So it’s it’s there’s less benefit to the city. To the city. Itself because it’s creating more, not more work, but it’s becoming more difficult to do. Um, because the fact of the matter, as you just said, if we do $10,000, we cannot guarantee that the market is going to say, well, this is worth $10,000 more. Yeah. The appraisal says it’s got that much more value. But as you know, those are okay. There is some of that, you know, very flexible. Yeah. And speaking of kind of the. Kind of moving into bonding, I should say is, is what I, how I understand and please correct me if I’m wrong, was that you were there was kind of an estimation that, um, while maybe not the best benefit to the city itself, right. Because of the interest rates and some of the higher costs. Right. It’s kind of like a credit card, if you will. Right. If I may make that comparison, um, it seemed to me that in terms of a per person cost, um, it seemed to me like possibly the lowest option as a per person resident of Crystal. Like over the next ten years. Is it safe to assume that I’m correct? Wouldn’t you? You listed on their $260 approximately ish, if you want to call it that. Total per per household, I guess it would be right. Uh, over the next ten years total. Or is that per year? I mean, that’s that would be 260. Once you got to like year ten, it would be $260. Total that I, as a homeowner, would have paid. Of your total tax. Yeah, of your total tax bill. So if your tax bill is $1,000, 260 of it, it’s going to be just for the debt service. Yeah okay. Sure. So but. Realistically it would be for this specific thing or line item if you will. It’d be $260 over the life of over. Ten years. It would be total. It would be $260. In year ten it would be 26. In year 140. It’s compounding. Compounding as you’re going. So it’d be building. It would be. Oh geez, every. Year 11. It would also be 260. Yeah. I don’t like that. Yeah yeah yeah. Okay. It’s kind of funny. Thank you. for explaining. 26 and then builds from there up to 26 or $260. But again, that $260 is if it’s the exact same bonding with the same rates every year, not counting for inflation of a project over ten years. So it would likely be much higher than that $260 as well. Yes, that thank you for explaining that that that does make sense. Now, um, obviously it sounds like franchise fees. I mean, you said it is. That’s kind of your what you are going to be strongly proposing and hoping for. And it sounds like $8 per utility, right, for $8 is kind of what you might be asking the council for in approving is $8 for electric and $8 per household on gas, correct? That’s correct. And it’s just those two that you’re able to. Those are the only two currently. Well, there’s some debate on some other ones, but it’s currently those are the two that we would be. Is that a fixed amount that you’re asking for or a or is this percentage based. This this is a fixed amount. Fixed okay. So that let’s just say $16. Then a month per household. Is this, um, I mean how long does that go for? Is that a kind of a forever addendum? I know this is a 70 year project and you’re sitting here going $2 million per year is what that’s going to do. Yeah. Ultimately, the council will decide do they put an end date on it for, you know, for this type of program or is it just built into our fee schedule? Uh, and one thing to keep in mind is while it’s, you know, 8 to $16 a month in 2027, that likely will need to go. Well, that will need to go up to account for inflationary projects, because if you keep it static for the entire 70 years, then you can do less and less every year. So, um, but yeah, so it’s, you know, I think it’s currently if it was 16, it’s $192 a year. You know, if times that out by 12. Do we have any currently. We do not know. And so, uh, we’re proud of all the surrounding communities were, I believe, the only one close by that does not have franchise fees currently. And you said that you’re so that that you said if we if we do get let’s just say $16, eight, eight and eight. Yeah, we would be. You said one of the highest in the state. Correct. Okay. So we’re going from zero to like 100 pretty quick. I mean, the likelihood of that happening probably isn’t very high. Okay. But I mean to to get to that $2 million a year, that’s where it would need to be. If we did franchise fees. And it let’s just say the the council does approve, let’s just say $4 each. So $8 total, you know, would give you about a million bucks. What would you be suggesting then to cover that other portion. Is it is it a combination. Because if you can’t get it all from there, I mean, what would be kind of your number two option of. I mean, you know, it, $4 or $8 a month is better than zero, right. And agreed. And, you know, any step forward is positive. And so, uh, once we get through this and, and the council makes the ultimate decision of what these would be if, if this is the path they move forward with, um, then we would have to look at that and, and, and talk as a staff and with the council of uh, are we just going to go with this for a couple of years? Are we going to look at stepping this up? Uh, possibly $8 a month in the Or four and four eight total in year one, year two, it moves up to 12. Year 3 to 16. You know, I mean there’s there’s multitude of factors that the council can consider of how they want to implement this as well. And so, um, it could be we’re just setting it this. And then every we’ll we’ll discuss it for we’re we’re going to keep it at X dollars for three years. And then we’ll revisit it. Uh, and we’ll adjust our projects accordingly. Um, so I mean, uh, there potentially would be, um, looking at levy increases as well. I mean, there’s potential for bonding. There’s potential for all of them. Uh, if if we don’t get to that or we reduce our project’s scope, uh, for a year or two, I mean, we still expand it from our current funding cycle. Uh, because if we get some franchise fees, again, that’s better than nothing. And it’s a step in the in the good direction. So, um. Okay. Hopefully that kind of answered your question. So in your opinion, then what would be the cheapest per household option? I it sounds like you have a recommendation of a best to worst in terms of the city’s point of view, as well as kind of your guys’s point of view in terms of how much work. And you know, what a nuisance it can be, reissuing things and having meetings. But is there a true, let’s just say, five year and a ten year kind of a, I don’t know, cheapest option per per household? I think I think the best value is the franchise. Okay. Uh, because, uh, you know, bonding potentially could be cheaper when you add up, you know, 26 to 50 2 to 78, you know, and you add those up year after year at some point, I think it’s year 6 or 7 is when, uh, that would equate to what you’re paying for franchise fees. And then it expands out above that. Um, but with bonding you’re also paying a fair amount with interest. And that isn’t being applied to the projects where franchise fees, we get, the funds we’re not paying, uh, interest fees. Again, we may have to do a bonding for year one so that we can build up our pot of money. Uh, and then paying with cash or, um, as we go so that all those funds go to projects and so that we can get the, the maximum amount of project for, for the dollar. Wonderful. And I’m sorry for taking so much time, but I do have one last question. Just just for out of curiosity’s sake is you did mention when I asked about the like the utility franchise fees and the, um, or excuse me, it was the gas and electric. You mentioned that there were some other ones. What what are those other ones? I’m just curious. Cable franchise fee. Okay, so if you’re Comcast is the only one that has a franchise, uh, and they there’s a, there’s a franchise fee if you’re Comcast subscriber for cable TV. Um that also. And internet sorry. Just just uh cable TV or internet as well. No currently just cable TV. Okay. And so that then goes to the cable commission. Uh, the northwest Suburbs Cable Commercial Commission, um, and that’s what funds that’s their primary funding. Uh, source for the Cable Commission, CC media as well as. Okay. That’s who’s recording this meeting tonight. Okay. So one of the issues with them is a lot of people are, you know, dropping cable, going to streaming, uh, you know, Are doing other issues or not. Not doing our dedicated cable subscription, subscription. And so there’s kind of this gray up for dispute area over whether that qualifies that other services qualify as a telecommunications. Um, because they’re using the same, same wires, but it’s providing different services. Um, our cable commission and some of the others, uh, we’re looking for a state guidance or federal guidance, but both the FCC and the state have not acted on it. Um, with some of the broadband companies, the fiber companies are coming through. Some cities are requiring or attempting to require a franchise fee for the broadband, um, to be able to fund those cable commission services. Um, there’s that some of them have started paying. Some of them are questioning whether or not that’s legal. So there’s kind of this legal administrative dispute. Um, okay. Us and six of the other cities of the nine in the northwest suburbs said we’re. Yes, we will partake in that. Um, because we are trying to support the Cable Commission. Um, but we we currently do not have any. Um, we have one company that’s applying because they need right away permits, regardless of whether or not there’s a franchise fee. Um, so the Cable Commission is discussing that with them. Um, their attorneys are trying to work that out. Whether or not that applies. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Yeah. No problems. We got time for more. One of the things I just want to. Please know, please come up. I was just gonna. While you’re coming up. Um, kind of back to your question about the other funding, uh, for the 2026 budget. I just pulled up the budget quick. We do have. So there’s a portion of the levy that is dedicated street construction. Um, dollars. And we had in 2025, it was about 620 26. It was it’s it increased to 6.99. So just under seven. Um, that, you know, under our current plan, we’re because we’re paying for cash with everything we are, it will be increasing. It started out several years ago as just a 1% of the overall levy, um, was going to be dedicated to street funding. Um, we had not had anything for quite for too long. Um, but then I don’t know how many years, mayor, do you know what year that started? And, uh, early 20 tens. Um. Yeah. Yeah. So it does 12. But and so we’ve had to. Increase that, um, as part of the dedicated levy with the it’s not going to be especially at the beginning, we won’t be able to just completely wipe that away if we go with the franchise fees. But the goal is to if we’re doing the franchise fees and we’d be able to potentially reduce or stop that growth of the street, front Street construction levy. Um, because those dollars would, you know, we’d have them a more dedicated source. And then with the budget that every every budget year that it is subject to fluctuation. Whereas if we diversify the revenue, we kind of have a protected because it can be changed. But it’s a little more complicated. It’s a little more step, a few more step or more steps for the council to, you know, change that. Um, very quickly or easily. So it kind of makes it more stable. So okay. Sorry about that. I just wanted to add that. Andy McLaughlin again. Um, so I guess the question when we’re talking about the benefits to the property and that kind of assessment that would go on, um, sounds like we’re just taxing unrealized gains. Is that. Yes. No. Well. Special. I understand what you’re saying. Special assessments would be, um, under the special assessment process there, because you’re directly taxing that property individually for the work that’s being done versus like, when it’s through the levy. Everybody’s paying in, and everybody, in theory, is getting the benefit at some point. So there’s not necessarily a debate over an unrealized benefit. It’s under the 429 statutory process. That’s where there’s this. You have to be able to justify of the received benefit for the work that’s going on. So active current benefit, not benefit when you go to sell your house. Correct. Correct. Yeah. Okay. That makes more sense. Um, I guess this is another just. I don’t really know the area. Do you have to have gas hookups? Do you have to have electric hookups in your house? If I wanted to go to LP, if I wanted to go all electric. Electric furnace. Electric. Everything in my house. Can I just not have a gas hookup? Yeah, I mean, I believe so. I mean, there’s I don’t know about the LP, but I would think that’s if it if. It I don’t believe the city that we require gas or electric specifically. In their full solar full battery packs and run my whole house off. That would have no connection. Yeah. I mean, I think that. As long as it meets billing code and, you know, there’s I don’t think they’re not waters is different thing, you know that. Um, but as far as other utilities, um, I don’t I’m not aware of any requirement from the city. It has to be habitable so that it has to have heat and, you know, some type of power source to make everything work. But, um, to get to that minimum habitability. Um, but where that’s sourced from, um, I mean, you can put in a geothermal, you know, there’s lots of options out there. Um, getting to that point obviously is a whole nother conversation. But, um, as far as what the city requires, I’m not aware of any. So the city doesn’t require. But the energy company might require in the area or. I mean, I don’t believe so. I mean, I think if you want to disconnect from that, you can. I mean, again, you have to show that you have alternate sources to price. And I know there are homes in Crystal that are that don’t have gas, like they have electric heat and electricity. So they would only pay the $8 or half, you know, just for that. Um, utility. So. So I guess how would so if we already know that there are places that aren’t going to be doing both of those fees, but are still having full access to all the roads, then we know that there’s an kind of uneven payment system towards this. I mean, it can be perceived that way, but I mean, at the same point, they’re still paying, you know, they’re still paying maybe not as much as others, but, uh, I think that’s kind of the rarity that you find is that, I mean, most houses have both. Uh, where apartments is where you find a lot more of single users with electricity and not the gas hookup. Um, but, I mean, it can happen. We can’t necessarily, uh, the amounts that when we calculated it, we actually got, uh, spreadsheets from the center point from Xcel Energy that said, here’s the number of, um, of, uh, services that we have for resident for the different classifications. And we type in the amount and it tells us exactly how much it is. So it is based on real data from that we got from both companies. So we know the number of services to homes, uh, in those classifications. And those numbers are from that calculation. Gotcha. And the uh, the gas tax that’s, that’s coming out like when you fill up at the pump. Yep. Um, does that only come from gas stations within Crystal city limits, or is that a broad state? State? And then we just state wide piece. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so, uh, we’re allowed to designate a certain percentage of our roadways as municipal state aid to receive some of that funds. And we have roughly 17.5 miles, uh, designated that way to so we can receive as much of that gas tax funds as we can. Like 20% ish. Or something. Yeah. I forget what the actual dollar percentage is, but yeah, it’s somewhere in that range. Cool. Thank you. Come on up. Um, I would like to revisit the other options for franchise fees. Did you to just to clarify that for broadband, which is also utility is some communities are utilizing that as a franchise fee. And is that at a federal level that that’s decided or how is it decided if you can have a right of way charge? Because it seems like if you’re doing it for gas and electric, but these broad bands can just zip in and put them. Up, there’s a lot of, uh, advocacy at the federal level. And even here at the state between the, the right of way users, the cable companies, um, as you can imagine, Comcast is, you know, a large, uh, corporation, um, pushing back on having any you know, they’re willing to get a permit, but they don’t want to have these ongoing costs. Um, that they do pass on to the user. You know, their customers. Um, so, but the FCC, the federal level, they have not come out and declared one way or the other. And so that’s been we’re we’re we’re wishing that would happen either one way or the other so we can move on. Um, in here at the state level as well. Um, so it’s kind of like I said, it’s in this early stage of the city of Woodbury was the first in Minnesota to implement that. Um, and they I think they had three companies that were seeking a broadband installation, and 1 or 2 of them signed up right away. And then there’s another one that’s, you know, quite like pushing back, um, challenging it. Um, our cable commission, I don’t know, I know there like I said, there’s six of the nine that of the communities, um, that have basically signed on to say yes, we’ll, you know, we’ll agree to we’ll agree to implement that. Um, but we don’t like the city. Crystal. We’ve had one company, um, contact us wanting to install fiber. And so we directed them to the cable commission. And so the attorneys are, uh, debating it or discussing it. And one thing with that as well is if that does go through and franchise and fees are enacted on the on the broadband, those would not come to the city. Those would go to CSX. Um, with that. So so I’m not very knowledgeable about this, but what about um, like the people that come through for, for strictly internet, like Centurylink or, um, you know, T-Mobile or the companies like that? Is that is that still seen as purely telecommunication? And but there’s so much. and that’s different about that now that I think it needs to be revisited. That’s probably in Oklahoma. And so the fiber company that, um, has approached the city is working for T-Mobile. And so it’s, it’s it’s it is it’s when Adam said it’s part of that gray area. And we don’t have a clear, defined from the state. That’s where that falls into. So we need to talk to our legislatures about this. Yes. Essentially. Um, okay. Back to the local level. Um, Mayor Deshler. Well, and we’re not we’re not having necessarily a debate with the mayor today, but. No, I don’t want to debate with her. I just want to know. I know that you’ve been talking about this for quite a while with the council, and it seems with the council members that I’ve spoken to, that the sentiment is supporting, uh, your recommendation. Yeah. And in, I. Mean, franchise fees. Yeah. And we have had discussions with the council and but one thing they wanted us is to do some outreach to the community so that we can get some of the feedback. And so when we come back with the official recommendation, we can be like, here, you can watch all the questions, uh, because you are being recorded right now. So all our council members, I probably should have clarified that at the beginning. But, um, all the all the council members can watch this and all any other resident, when they have questions coming up. Um, we can direct them. We’re going to have this linked into their website. So people can watch this presentation. Here are some of the questions and hopefully that answers a lot of what people have. Because uh and then also then they can reach out to me directly and talk. But yeah. So this is, this was directed by the council because they want transparency. They want us to present here’s the information we have, here’s what we’re going to be talking about with Council. Here are the hard numbers. I mean we’re not trying to sugarcoat I’m not trying to uh, if you want to see how I came up with that $5 million per mile, I, I will sit down with you and show you all the different cost estimates and go through it line by line. If you want. Um, so, I mean, it’s it’s all based on hard data. Factual data is what we’re presenting. And we just want to make sure that residents have the opportunity to hear that, not just in a council meeting setting, and then also be able to ask questions openly. And then the council can hear the responses as well and hear what’s coming from the constituents. If I could just add one thing, um, Jesse mentioned it earlier. Um, so Jesse’s our city engineer, you know, public works director, and I ask him, you know, what do we need? Tell, you know, tell me what we need to make the city work. And that’s what I communicate to the council. As you know, whether it’s through about the franchise fees or however we’re doing the funding for anything, you know, budget every year. Um, and so I do that with all the staff. The conversation, though, at the council level, when we’re talking about it as a larger group, that’s when, you know, there’s other considerations that come in. What? Okay, we know we need this, but what can we afford right now? What do we want to do? What do we want to have? Um, you know, one of the things that we’ve just not to get off topic here, but, um, that conversation is it will continue with specifically regarding the franchise fees. Um, Jesse, you know, as he said, this is where he, as the professional thinks it should be. That may not be where it ends up being because the council has to consider everything else that we’re doing. Um, you know, there’s I have several other there’s several other department heads that all have their own needs that we have to when we come to the budget and when we talk about everything, um, they all there’s a lot that is covered. Um, but that’s those conversations are where the council talk to their neighbors, talk to the residents that have contacted them, and those other considerations come into play. And, you know, what can the community, what can what can we I don’t say tolerate or afford, you know, what can we handle now? Because not just streets, we have a lot of different needs in the city that we’re all trying to balance. And so this is one, one slice of that. And it all needs to be needs to be balanced. So you’re hearing from Jesse, um, and. With a very biased opinion. And. So I’m. Just. Making that clear. Um, that that may not be where, where I need it to be because I have the rest of the city as well to manage. Um, so I have to, you know, there’s internal struggles just amongst staff, um, because it is it is somewhat of a finite pie. I mean, there’s we only have x number of residents, x number of households. It’s what we have to balance. And we do we do that. We have to do that every day. Um, but this is the starting point of this is the data. This is what it would take to do X. And so we’re being very transparent here. As Jesse said of, to be able to get to what, where we’d like to be, which is only an a 70 year plan. Um, this is what it would take. So now we’re going to go back and have more conversations with the council about, well, what can what can we do? Because as Jesse also said, anything is more than zero, which is kind of where we’re at right now. So I just wanted to reiterate that. Any other questions? Well, again, grab my card on your way out. Uh, here, I’ll put up the end it here as well. So people, when they’re watching has my, uh, direct phone number and email address as well. Um, yeah. If you have take the card if you have other questions in the coming days. Weeks, uh, shoot me an email and I’ll try to get back to you as quickly as I can. So thank you. Thank you for taking the time to come. Yeah. We really appreciate you coming tonight. So thank. Yeah. Thank you.