I'm going to call to order working group. Uh thank you all for joining today in my capacity of as chair of the LC >> recording in progress. >> I am convening this workg group but will not uh be participating in it after today. Uh to begin with maybe we could do uh a round of introductions and I'll start at the left and kind of work my way around the committee table. We'll start with Mr. D. >> Thank you very much. Uh I am Eric Cedarleaf Dah, the executive secretary of the Capitol Area Architecture and Planning Board. >> And uh I was going to start at the left and then the mayor is now seated to your left. So we'll let her situation off first and go to Mr. Meyer and then we'll come back to the mayor. >> Good afternoon everyone. Bob Meyer, assistant commissioner, Department of Natural Resources. >> Mayor her. >> Good morning everyone. Uh Khalur, mayor St. call. >> Jesse Held, assistant commissioner for the Department of Administration. >> Representative Isaac Schultz, uh, member of the House and, uh, serve also on the cap board, >> Senator Steve Green, >> Senator John Hoffman, >> Representative Peter Fischer, >> Representative Jenny Cleorne. I must forgot my name. >> It's right there. [laughter] I'm Representative Jim Nash and apparently I'm sitting on the wrong side of the table so I might migrate over next to Isaac. >> No. >> Okay, I'll stay here. >> I'm Ken Schwitworth, director and CEO of the Minnesota Historical Society. >> Hi, Brien House. I'm the assistant chief of staff for policy and legislative affairs in the governor's office. Um, and former house staff and former Hortman staff. >> And then we have some members participating remotely. Uh, Senator Andrew Lang, uh, thanks for allowing me to put this participate. >> Good afternoon, Senator Amanda Hemson, Jagger. Thanks as well. >> And then in addition uh to the members, we have uh staff. Mr. Turman, if you want to introduce yourself. >> My name is Austin Turman. I'm a research analyst uh with the LCC um serving the group in a nonpartisan role in a research uh capacity. >> Uh next we'll turn to Mr. Turman uh to discuss the enabling legislation of this work group. >> Thank you chair and members. Um in your packets you should see a printout of the enabling legislation. Subdivision one uh is the membership which is all of you. Subd is the uh charges. Um so this group um must make recommendations for the creation of the Melissa and Mark Hortman Memorial State Park within the capital area as defined in statute. Um, this would include identifying the roles and responsibilities of the commissioner of administration and natural resources, the Minnesota Minnesota Historical Society and the Capital Area Architectural Planning Board uh related to the administration of the park, including assigning the roles and responsibilities for providing educational programming, interpretive uh services, planning processes for physical changes and public engagement activities within the park, as well as uh funding recommendations for establishing in maintaining the park and related programming. Um, moving down to subd6, uh, the work of the group will culminate, um, and finish with a report that would be due on February 1st of next year. Um, this report will go to the chairs and ranking minority members um with of the committees with primary jurisdiction over Department of Administration and Department of Natural Resources. and that that would include any draft legislation uh if needed. Um and then I want to also mention briefly um regarding open meeting law. This group would be under um the legislative open meeting law which defines a meeting um as when a quorum is present and when action is taken regarding uh a matter within the jurisdiction of the body. Um this allows for people meeting uh remotely they would be also counted towards quorum. Um so with this group there's 14 members. Um a quorum would be eight members. Um so for instance if the group were to establish a subcommittee um that rule would also apply to that. Um and then uh that's it. That's my notes. Um, if you have any questions regarding the enabling legislation or the open meeting law, I'd be happy to answer them now or uh at a later date. Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Turman? >> I'll just add um more uh about the genesis of this. Of course, we know that uh Mark and Melissa Hortman were assassinated in their home uh last summer on June 14th. Um, prior to that, many folks here will know that uh, Speaker Hortman had a a great love uh, for the Capitol building and the Capitol campus. Uh, on long sessions, uh, she was known to walk the grounds. Uh, if you joined her, she would share her opinions, both positive and negative, about uh, the way the grounds um, were kept and what trees were there in particular. She had very strong feeling about the trees. But um Melissa had a vision uh for this place. Uh she wanted to ensure that it was as accessible as possible to the public that and that the public would have the ability to understand and appreciate its history as much as she did. Uh and so she wanted uh to see this entire area turn into a state park in recognition of the fantastic work that our state does uh with our state park system. Uh and it was a long-term ambition of hers uh with the goal of making this area even more open, accessible, and understanding to the people of Minnesota. And um in the aftermath of her and Mark's assassination, uh several of us thought it would be a a great way to preserve that legacy to call together a group and have discussions about whether that idea uh was workable and how it could work and how we could best bring it uh to life. And that's the purpose of the legislation and uh the purpose of uh this work group. Um, at this time we're going to elect a chair and then a vice chair and then follow those two elections I will hand the gavl over uh to the new chair and leave you all to your work. So at this time I'll open the floor for nominations for chair of the work group. Represent Cleorne. >> Thank you. I nominate Peter Fischer. >> Representative Fischer's name is a nomination. Are there any other nominations? Are there any other nominations? Are there any other nominations? Seeing no other nominations, we'll close nominations. Mr. Chairman, do we need to do a roll call for this or can we uh >> voice? >> We can do a voice vote. Okay. All in favor of Representative Fischer serving as chair of the work group, please say I. >> I opposed. >> The motion prevails. Congratulations, Representative Fischer. Uh, I will now open the floor for nominations for vice chair of the work group, Representative Fischer. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to nominate uh Senator John Hoffman. >> Senator Hoffman's name has been placed in the nomination. Are there any other nominations? Are there any other nominations? Are there any other nominations? Seeing no nominations, I'll close nominations. Uh, all those in favor of electing Senator Hoffman as vice chair of the work group, please say I. >> I. >> I. I. opposed. Motion prevails and Senator Hoffman has been elected vice chair of the work group. Congratulations to Senator Hoffman. And with that, Representative Fischer, I will hand the gavl over to you and leave you all to do your work. Thank you so much. >> Thank you, Leer Stevenson. >> Thank you, Senator Hoffman. Uh thank you everybody. Uh we have lots of great work that we're going to get to do over the coming uh few months here. Uh I will say that uh the next item we first of all have on the agenda determining uh dates and times and frequency of the meeting. I know that we've got quite a bit of work out there that we'd like to get done. We've got a report that's going to be due for the next legislative session. And so what I'd like to is toss out a suggestion for I what might be an idea for planning as we go forward is maybe right now uh plan that maybe like once every three weeks we should be getting together so that we can keep the work going along and if we find out that it's not enough time we might meet more frequently and if we're moving along well then we get done early and then we can get back to the other chores that we have before us. So just want to kind of toss that out. I know that right now we are meeting on Wednesdays at one o'clock. Does that kind of work? And I'm also open to their thoughts or ideas if uh people would like to have any uh comments on that. Anyone care to make a do we need to have a motion on that? Uh represent Clay. >> Thank you. I move that we continue to meet at w on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. >> And that would be for clarification. Would that be every third Wednesday? every third Wednesday until if we see that it needs to be amended. >> Okay. >> Representative Nash. >> Thanks, Mr. Chair. I just want to make sure that as we do that, the online version of this meeting will still be offered because some folks live more than a considerable distance away from the capital and just wanted to make sure that that was a possibility. >> Yes. Uh as I look at staff here, as we did for this one, that we would continue to do that for all of them going forward. Other questions or comments? We have a motion before us that we meet the uh >> chair. Excuse Oh, yes. Uh thank you, uh Senator Emson Jagger. >> Apologies for the interruption. Um we can talk about this if it's just a me thing. No big deal. But as I was flipping through my calendar, um I also serve on the Tax Expenditures Review Commission, which meets on Wednesdays from noon to 1:30. And there's there might be a couple Wednesdays where I would be double booked. So if that's just a one oneoff thing that we can discuss offline, totally fine. I wasn't but I wanted to bring it up just in case. >> Okay. Uh uh thank you Senator Hemingson Jagger for bringing that up. I think ours will be every third. So it's possible that they may cross and we can take a look at that as we go forward. Uh I think one of the things that may help is because we're remote that we'll be able to have the remote option. That may make it a little bit easier, but we can keep that an eye on that as we go forward. But I think it's good to have a set date and time so we can get in our calendars and be ready. Uh but as as you see where the conflicts are, if you could let us let staff know as soon as possible, that'll be helpful as we go through our planning process. Any other questions, >> comments? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion to be u meeting Wednesday at 1:00 every three weeks signify by saying I. >> Opposed. >> Motion carries. So we have uh successfully addressed our meeting time. That's great. Some things we also have to take a look at as future topics and presentations. Um some of the things that we will have have coming up before us is how do we approach the the work that we have before us and I think some of the things that is very important is that as we're doing our work is first of all getting a good >> base setting of what is current roles out there is getting an understanding from each of the different agencies what they're currently doing and it doesn't have to be real long but I don't know um if we if some people have that can kind of give us a little bit level setting Now, but before we get to that, I was also kind of acknowledging that as we go forward is taking a look as I know that the uh CAP board has done a bit of work. They've got their comprehensive plan which I've had a uh chance to take a look at a little bit here. It's has a lot of references to the park uh in it. I know if I remember right, there is a design vision for a park. So, those I think are some things that would be in there. Some of the other things that would be important I think that could help guide us as we're trying to figure this out is there are several capital there's several states that have their capital as a state park elsewhere in the country and that would probably be a good thing to kind of reference in there uh to make sure that we are incorporating the process. I think some of the things as we're doing our process going forward is also making sure at some point we have the opportunity for public input is you know we're dealing with the park that are that the people particularly the people in the area here and elsewhere are going to have an interest in. So we want to make sure that we're incorporating as much input as possible through the process. Uh so as we're doing that uh and setting these kind of objectives, what are some of the things that people are seeing that they'd like to be seeing? I in terms of what we'd like to consider for our upcoming meetings. I know the next meeting would be probably more along the line of of um hearing what other states have hearing from the CAP board what they have seen in that area. So we've got that base and then we'd be adding on from there. But I'm also want to hear what other people are to help guide this process. uh so trying to facilitate uh who uh represent Schultz. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. In addition to what you already mentioned and you encompass some of our earlier conversation that we had together, I would also add to our discussion that we should consider and hear potentially a presentation uh from an expert. Uh I'm sure that the cap cap board could assist with this from someone who has studied the work of Cass Gilbert, his design for this building and uh the grounds around it. so that we are uh to be in line with his intentions to the greatest extent possible and to understand the implications to what a state park uh would look like along those lines. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Very good. Good suggestion. Uh represent Claybourne. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it would also be important for us to hear from um the public safety uh aspect of whatever this park would look like. In looking at the membership of um the committee, I don't see any um mention of security. And I think we want to make sure, especially since the Capitol Mall falls into this weird space of sheriff, capital, city, >> we need to make sure that there are really clean lines for public safety and making sure that we understand um that there's maybe a unified portal for events and things like that to be kind of scheduled. >> Okay, very good. Other thoughts? Uh I see Representative Nash over here. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And one of the things that is sort of top of mind for me is understanding how would if this were to happen would this be different than what other state parks do? And I know that uh DNR is here and other people are here, but I want to understand the the the stark differences, any differences that there would be because I'm I'm sure there will be. But then also what are the ramifications for the the people who may want to come here and take a uh certain activities on the capital grounds because we see a lot of that and what what are the implications for that? I know that's probably to be a topic of conversation, but I wanted to make sure it got on your agenda and I think I mentioned that the other day when you called >> represent Fischer. >> Um, but also the boundaries. What are the boundaries of this? Because in the capital area, it goes further than just the conventional place that we walk around and and think of as the capital grounds, but there are actually residences that fall inside the capital ground. And I want to make sure that uh if this is to become a reality that we also listen to the people who are the residences residents of the area and what their take is on what this may or may not do to them their home uh the their ability to do in in their home and to their home what they wish because I know that there are certain uh restrictions on what one can do inside of a state park. Just wanted to make sure that we put that out there. And um lastly for me, well usually not lastly, I always have something else as you know, but I want to talk about the money. >> The the what does it cost? What will we need to do? >> What are the inter agency budgetary restrictions or problems? And then just wanted to level set for everybody. You know, we're in August of 26 and we're now in a structural deficit. So that's I just want to make sure we put that on the record right now and put that out there because we're going to be ostensively making decisions that have a fiscal component to them when we don't know anything about a funding source of any kind. So I know that's a little bit of a Johnny Raincloud, but Chair Cleorne comes to expect that [clears throat] of me every day in state government. But it is it is a reality that we have to address. No. And and Representative Nash, I appreciate you raising that. That's one of the things I know that I've heard from people too is that whatever we do has got to be sustainable for future. And that's one of the things that's very important is making sure that whatever we do doesn't look good today or two years from now, but how does it look 15 and 20 years from now? and how does it continue to present itself fulfilling the vision of not only what we're going to be addressing but also going back to the roots of what Cass Gilbert had kind of looked at and then what residents have you know at some point there's going to also be evolutions of it and it's making sure that we set it up in a way that we have clearly defined roles because there as you were mentioning there is that uh the way we manage state parks is probably much different than the way we're going to manage what we would see as a state park here but there's also some synergies that could be out there that could enhance people. As an example, I'll use the state park passport program. You know, I could see from the state park world, uh, and this is something when I was a kid, I had a state one of the state park passports. We go around, we get stamped, and you get little trinkets as you do it. Great way to get kids introduced to it that would not see it otherwise. You know, once again, that's a cost, but and I'm sorry, I'm starting to vision a little bit, but I can see where you can get synergies also coming out of the same opportunity. As we've also got downsides, we've got synergies. and I want to make sure that we're doing our best to build off that as we go forward. >> And go ahead, Mr. Just to conclude, I I I think one of the things that >> as Chair Cleburn and I have the majority uh of state agencies in our jurisdiction, agency overlap creates both confusion, problem, additional cost, additional staff, um who has the last word. And I I I I will not support something that has a ton of confusion in it because that just sets it up for failure from day one. So if this is to happen, I think that we need clear lines of delineation as to who moves forward on what, who has the word on on whatever because coming from the the technology world and even here in our own uh IT world, nobody forgets a bad launch and if this is to become reality and it is clunky and confusing from the very beginning, it's going to fail. So I from my perspective if we don't have those answers uh articulated I I would be against it even moving forward because there's there's so many moving parts to state government that um we don't want even the hint of confusion if this [snorts] if this is to become reality. >> Okay. >> Thank you represent Nash uh represent Claybornne and then I think Mayor Hurst is gan next. Oh, sorry. And just to that point, when um coacher Nash speaks of boundaries, it's both the physical boundary of what is the park and then the responsibility and budgetary boundaries that we have to clarify. And I think uh in thinking about that word boundary, we all are interpreting words every day with our own definition. So we want to make sure as we are going forward in this conversation, [snorts] you know, when we say state park, we really need to be able to clarify for everyone to understand what that would mean in our final report, right? This park may look differently, but that definition needs to be clear. And when we use words in this committee and in this um task, this working group, I think it's going to be really important that we level set what those uh words actually mean in practice because every agency has their own vocabulary and so I would think it's really important that we stay on that same page. Thank you. >> Very good point. Appreciate it. Thank you. Uh Mayor Her, >> thank you Mr. Chair. Um and I appreciate the discussion this. I just want to make sure that maybe at the end of the at the end of this process that we sort of look at also how um you know state parks, regional parks, city parks like what that means because we also have you like uh statutory language within our our own uh city ordinances around parks and adding parkland and things like that. And so there may not be any conflict at all. But I just want to make sure that maybe the city um and the state sort of look over where there's overlap in that and how the two inter interact with each other. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. Uh uh Miss House. >> Hi. Thanks, Mr. Chair. Um one other voice I want to make sure that we're including in this process in some um meaningful way is the family. Um anything we're putting the Hortman name on, we should ensure that the family is supportive of. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you, Miss House. Other comments? Uh uh Assistant Commissioner Meyer and then Mr. Chairman, I know we've spoke about this in kind of along the lines of representative Nash. There are many rules and regulations of what you can and cannot do in state parks establishing statute rule. Um, we don't want to be permitting activities on the capital grounds like events and things like that. So, I really appreciate hearing that that duplicity issue because I think there is a lot of that potentially. Um then just the funding piece I think is very important as well as the state parks are in a funding deficit as well. So how do we do these activities that um are representative of Speaker Hortman's desires and wishes represent the family's desires, our desires, and are also long lasting within a budgetary framework that that works within the system. So um I know we've had conversations about this in the past and I think we can end up in a good spot. Okay, very good. Thank you, uh, Senator Green. >> Thank you. And, [clears throat] uh, discussion isn't going quite the way I thought it was going to, but, I'm glad to hear that there's some caution. I was having some conversations with Senator Hoffman earlier today on on where we go with this. And one of the things that that serving on committees has taught me is that um, as as time goes on, you you look at the end result and what you want and stop looking at whether or not it's feasible. And so there may be when we come to the end of this it might not be feasible to do here. There's a lot of questions here and you know we brought up the security the management uh I I I would question about uh the the willingness of the DNR to actually uh have people to do it here. I mean whether it's a DNR whether the state patrol is still going to do it. I mean it's it could end up being a nightmare. So, um I'm looking forward actually I don't like committees, but I'm looking forward to hearing some of the input from the agencies and and what they think and also the numbers. I mean, >> it's a it's a big deal. And if you're going to make these kind of changes, uh where's that funding source going to come from? We've we're already pretty limited. >> All right. Well, thank you. Other comments? I think this has been a good good way to start getting a lot of things out that we'll have to keep in mind as we go forward. Uh it's a discussion I know that we'll have I think at times will be very lively as we go forward which is good. This is a planning process and I think it's going to have some uh unique ideas and we may as we finish. I've got a feeling that what we come out with will actually probably require some different uh definitions that will end up being in state statute. As you have mentioned, if we're looking at a state park, state park has certain rules, etc. This might be what could be called a special use state park with its own segment which would help address some of those issues. I and these are things which is good that we're bringing up because these are things that have been kicked around over the last probably year or so that I've as long as I've been working on this in the last few months it's different issues that we want to make sure we get it right and making sure that we've got the right caution going forward. Uh so with that I would say uh one of the things that would be good is if we could get a little bit of an idea from you know we've got most of the agencies here already uh if they'd be able to give us you know just like a little short presentation of how they currently interact or don't interact with the uh the capital grounds here and what they what they do cover and that and I'm not saying and what I'm saying this is it's don't take a look at the current legislation we have but what your current roles are now because I think that's a good starting point to what people are currently doing because that helps guide us as we go forward. And so with that, what I think I'm going to do is probably start on my right and kind of work my way around the table here to the different representatives from the different agencies and organizations and uh get a little bit of a briefing. So I would like to if possible maybe starting off with uh uh Miss House. I know you're over on the administration as general and you might not have a whole lot but others agencies may have a little bit more. >> Yeah, thanks Mr. Chair. Um I in the governor's office, you know, we we don't have a direct role in managing the capital space as far as I'm aware, but um you know, our goal in joining this working group is to help facilitate and make sure that um we're able to get to yes on this project. So that is kind of the main goal I have here, but I would turn it over to my colleagues in the agencies and the historical society and capboard to talk more about what they actually do to run the grounds and the building. >> All right. Very good. Thank you, Mr. Witler. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh the Minnesota Historical Society operates the Minnesota State Capital is one of our 26 state historic sites. And so we are focused on the visitor experience. Many of the legislators will have interacted with school groups and tours here. Um, we do some special programming. Uh, our site manager, Brian Peace, who I know many of you know, is u not only a site manager but almost you know kind of a state capital historian if you will and uh so we as an organization have that working knowledge. We're intimately involved in in the restoration. Um, we also do provide some administrative support for events here, that kind of thing. Uh, when it comes to the exterior, that's not quite as much um an area of statutory focus for us. Uh, we certainly work closely with the CAP board. Um, but but um um our role is primarily focused inside visitor experience, uh the history itself, uh the art and the capital. We're obviously involved in that. So um uh and we actually I think were a venue for some of the visioning that was done in terms of uh the next duration of the capital ground. So we've served as a venue and provided some input there. >> Thank you. Okay. Very good. Thank you. Then coming around U Miss Held. Um I would say admin serves as the landlord uh for the buildings and parking facilities and the grounds on the capitol complex. Uh so it's a 140 area acre area uh with 16 buildings and the associated parking facilities uh on the complex and within admin we have our uh facilities management division. So we uh manage, maintain and operate the buildings and the grounds um and the parking facilities. So it can include um our grounds, the maintenance and upkeep of that. Uh it includes our in building engineers, our technical services, so like trade shops, um plumbing, carpentry, uh mechanical automation. Uh we also have our parking and events team. So those are the ones issuing those um event permits that happen both inside the capitol building and um on the exterior on the mall and other places on the complex um as well as uh central mail services. Uh so we provide a mailing service uh on the complex and to the other state uh partners uh within the uh twin cities area. Uh so that is the primary I guess high level role of admin and how we we work with our partners here on various monuments, memorials um [clears throat] additional improvements I would say both interior and exterior. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. Uh, Assistant Commissioner Meyer. >> Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, unfortunately, at this time, I'm probably about the most entertainment that people receive from the DNR at the capital complex. Uh, we don't have any programming here. Um, we don't um we work closely with our partners when activities are needed and things like that. But I think the important thing for us to to hone in on in in this conversation or we can do a presentation as well is how state parks are established in in 868.05. It defines the Minnesota Outdoor Recreation Act which was established in 1975 creating our what wildlife management areas, aquatic management areas, state parks, state forests. And in there it talks about what a state park is and it it defines a state park and it says state park shall be established to protect and perpetuate extensive areas of the state possessing those resources which illustrate and exemplify Minnesota's natural phenomena and to provide the use, enjoyment and understanding of such resources without impairment for the enjoyment and recreation of future generations. There's also a lot of activities that are permitted or you need a permit to enter most of these. Um, and the boundaries, if the boundaries were Rice Street, Pennsylvania, some of those residences, we would have to exempt from those requirements. I'm assuming we would exempt all people from those requirements, but it will take some uh use of the words notwithstanding or creation of a special unit. As as you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, we have done that in certain cases. um Vermillion Hills wildlife Vermillion Highlands wildlife management area um is a classic example of how we've taken the wildlife management area system and created a new unit to work closely with the U of M and how their ownership works. So there are ways to deal with these things. Um, we want to work closely with our managing partners on the capital complex to provide the unique experience I think the capital complex has, but do so in a meaningful way and also a a fiscally responsible way as well. So, um, I think there are a lot of opportunities here and we look forward to participating in helping solve creatively those challenges that are in front of us. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, Mr. D. >> Right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, so I'm executive secretary of the CAP board. And what does the CAP board do? We were established in 1967, Minnesota State Statute 15B. And really the CAP board guides the planning, design, and preservation within the Minnesota State Capital Area. For just a little step back of what is the state capital area for CAPboard, it's a 60 block uh surrounding the Minnesota State Capital. So it goes up to Pennsylvania on the north uh to Jackson Street on the east uh down into Fitzgerald Park on the south side and in also encompassing the Minnesota History Center and then over on Marian it's the uh or over on the west side it's Marian. Um and really our main focus is to preserve and enhance the dignity, beauty and architectural integrity of the capital and its grounds, protect and increase open spaces within the capital area. Develop proper approaches for pedestrians, highways and mass transit. Establish flexible framework for growth consistent with the original design intent of Cass Gilbert and master planners. Um what do we do in practice is uh we uh do design review authority. So any changes to the capital area in public private development proposals. So everything from the capital restoration to uh the former Sears site uh development. Uh we approve building designs, site design, public realm changes. Uh we are the planning authority. So we prepare and implement uh comp plans just like the city of St. Paul or other cities in the state. Uh our latest one is the 2040 comprehensive plan. We also uh oversee the Capitol Mall in conjunction with our partners Minnesota historical society, Department of Administration, City of St. Paul, uh Capital Security. Um and we also oversee planning for the um Capitol Mall. So we design, as you mentioned, chair, we put together a capital mall design framework that planned out, you know, what are what should we what should the mall look like for motans over the next 10 to 20 years. Uh we also coordinate land use, zoning, transportation, and public realm standards. Um and then as I mentioned, we steward the capital mall. So we protect uh character defining features in the Capitol Mall in the Capital Mall historic district. Uh we guide treatment consistent with adopted cultural landscape guidance and we review proposals for commemorative works. So any additions, modifications or removals of commemorative works. CAP board reviews those and goes through an extensive process to make the determination how they can be changed, should they be added, should they be removed. Um the board consists of 12 members with the chair being the lieutenant governor, two appointments from the house, two from the senate, three from the mayor's office, and three from the governor's office. Uh we meet quarterly. Um I think that about covers it. Happy to answer any questions if I missed anything. >> Okay, very good. Thank you. It's a big part of it what we're going to be dealing with as we go forward. And then Mayor her. So I think that um much is already talked about about the relationship between the city and the state. I will just say that you know depending on the road or the sidewalks that we do have shared responsibility in some of those things as well. Um and so I other than that I don't have the specifics of which roads and which sidewalks but we can definitely uh make sure that we have that information for all of you Mr. Chair but other than that I think that we are uh very much looking forward to being a partner. I know that there are times around the regional parks and some of the other parks that are not specifically city-owned, but we do manage uh some of these facilities, take care of them. Uh the state funds some of that work for us as well. And so I think that in the spirit of doing something that works for uh this particular project and really honoring the Hortman's that the city looks to be a strong partner with the state in order to get this done. >> Okay, very good. Thank you. Uh yes, uh represent Clayurn. >> Thank you. Uh I just want to clarify my own role on the committee. I am serving in my capacity as co-chair of state government. I do serve on the cap board. So I do want to make sure that it's very clear that I I have two hats, but in this particular situation, I will be serving as co-chair of state government. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. Uh Senator Hoffman. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And it was good to hear the overview. Um, I knew Melissa for many, many, many, many years. Walked with her lots around here. Um, had the had the had the joy of debating the solar standards um, bill in 2013 with her and John Marty. Uh, it will be in my book, Jim Nash. So it'll be we'll con you it'll be good. But I I'll never forget this conversation Melissa and she was this is all she wanted. Simple. She said if we get designated as a state park I think you might have been in that room Bob when she was maybe not cuz you know I don't remember things like I used to but it's coming back. Um and when it does look out. So the she specifically said if we get dedicated as a state park we can finally access funds from other outside of Minnesota outside of government. There was she started and she listed I wish I would have been recording that but she was listing these um other organizations that help right and so um trees it was the discussion with her was trees. it was about the trees and Eric shaking his head. Yes. And so, you know, it would be uh I don't know who those entities are. Um I I will look back to see if I could write fast enough, but I didn't. But her intention was to create this park so that we could be self- sustaining, that it would be a beautifification of what Minnesota is about, right? And so I think when we start talking about, you know, curbs and gutters and stuff, we're getting we're getting down a rabbit hole where we don't need to be. I think we start to, you know, if we do this thing in phases, the conversation is what needs to happen. Are we able to do that? Cuz I hear I hear Jim Nash. I've heard Jim Nash for many, many years. You know, he and I have one thing in common. We both knew the owner of the of the island in Lake Wakonia and and ate at one of the best restaurants in the cities is is in his backyard, Lola's, right? So, it's not a plug, Jim. I will get but I hear that conversation Steve Green was bringing up. What I like about Steve Green is he will he will bring up the what about did you think about this? Have you thought about Right. And we were talking just when you landed from your 5hour trip down. Thank you for coming to this by the way. Um just that conversation about yeah this is where you're going and I'm glad you know I was happy to hear you say look you know most of these councils I sit on but this one I'm looking forward to having those discussions right and and finding out what can be there but I just go back to I'll never forget when she said this complex should be a state park then we could go access funds um from other entities and I don't know what that means Eric and maybe somebody could help us discover cover what that means. Um, but uh I just I'm glad I'm part of this. Grateful I'm part of this. And so that's all I wanted to say. >> All right. Thank you, Senator Hoffman. Other comments or or questions that people might have on the our initial discussions. Uh represent Schultz. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And this follows some of the line of uh questions or comments from Representative Cleorne. And with regards to our conversations over these last couple years here at the state capital, a primary concern being over public safety and this the conversation that I don't feel like we have enough just sitting around the table, maybe even from the authorizing uh statute is just that direct input whether it's from state patrol, whether it's from the city or even the county in those roles. And you know, in in this sense, if we were to go the route of a state park, uh a conservation officer is also a law enforcement officer. And thinking about all of those aspects, we have to be very specific if this is to work at all. We have to be very specific as to where those jurisdictions lie. And there is concern as not not just from the agencies themselves or the departments but there's concerns from the public as to who am I supposed to reach if there's an emergency right and that is something that I really wrestle with on this conversation it's something uh that you know when we're talking about community safety in the area it's been it's had a direct impact along University and Rice Street for a long time that challenge over whose jurisdiction it truly is And it's something that um I believe is going to impact our conversation here. So uh to the extent to which we're able through presentations and thorough discussion from members of the working group, we need to talk about those things uh especially because and we kind of open this with ensuring that this space that we all appreciate so much is open and accessible to people. Right? There are times, as much as I love a state park, no matter the corner of the state, where accessibility isn't necessarily the first thing that I think about and I want us to be very thorough in the way that we approach that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you, Representative Schultz. And I believe on Zoom we have Senator Heington Joerger. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a question. And given um Speaker Hortman's relationship with our tribal nations and then given that the land that we're on, do we have a role and space for their input as well? >> Uh uh thank you for raising it. I I think that would be appropriate in here, particularly as we're dealing with some of the work around the outside. I think that would be appropriate that we'd also reach out to that uh to the tribal community to make sure that uh we're incorporating any input that they may have. That's a great uh observation. and and Representative Nash. >> Thanks, Mr. Chair. And I'm just going to pick up on what Representative Schultz just said, but from the capital area security uh chair that I have in in that commission, uh there are already three law enforcement organizations. There's the state patrol, there is the county sheriff, and then there is the city police. And then to the point that Representative Schultz made that there would then be probably a DNR or a a presence as well if it's a state park. Um when we've had conversations in capital security and Captain Rosski is here and could add some color if if we wanted to, but I think it's a future topic of conversation. the jurisdictional priority or order of priority is something that uh I think in in cap security we're still trying to get nailed down. But if we add yet another entity to the mix that that's going to require a tremendous amount of work because if you'll remember there were a number of of things that happened at the beginning of the bianium in in a committee room and there was a level of confusion that happened between who had law enforcement jurisdiction in that particular uh instance. that is something that if this is to become reality will have to get nailed down not just um in an agreement but it will also require probably some statutory uh definitions if this is to become reality. So I just want to put that on your horizon Mr. Chair. >> No uh thank you thank you represent Nash. That is a a good one and once again it's one of those things we don't want to over complicate things. It's important that we define things out and what's great is when it comes out with the recommendations, we get to write the we get to write what statute's going to be. And I think that's what one of the great things that we have is the capability is as much of us from the elected side here is being able to take the input and be able to make sure that we have things clearly defined in statute to help resolve these. Mr. Chair, if I could follow up to >> Sure. Go ahead. Sure. But, you know, as any of us knows, you have to you have to be able to to count to to 68 34 and one. And that that's something that is the law enforcement piece alone, I think, is is a is a huge potential hurdle. Um, because in our underlying statutes and in in the creation of this entity, we there are there are responsibilities that are set forth long before what this might be. So, >> something that is to be tackled, but then you got to get votes to to pass it if there's underlying statutory changes that that are to be proposed. And and uh you know, I'll tell you as as our caucuses whip, sometimes it's tough to get votes on things that you think um make sense. And even if there's consensus in one committee, there isn't in the next. Uh so you know I I think that there's a fair amount of effort that if this is to become reality that's going to have to to be one of the biggest issues because um if a group of people come down here having absolute clarity on who's responsible for what if there's something that arises cannot be left to u good intentions or conversations had in back rooms. Uh, I saw Commissioner Meyer and then I'll go over to Assistant Commissioner Meyer and then over to Represent Clayornne. >> Thank you, Chairman. Um, Representative Nash, I fully appreciate your comments here. We recognize the enforcement hierarchy that's here and we fully support them. We do not plan on having a presence if there is a state park here. That would be under the control of the patrol and capital security and everything else. when we are called to do work at this facility, it's for other public safety purposes and we want to keep it that way. So, I think the the enforcement pieces are just perfect the way they are and um I would not we're not staffed to have a conservation officer presence in the mall and we would have to deal with that. But I think things are as they're dealt with right now are are perfect and we wouldn't want to change that. So, >> okay. Thank you. Uh and then uh represent Clayornne and then after that is Senator Hemingson Joerger. >> Okay. Thank you. Um I I always appreciate a robust conversation and I think um I just want to kind of bring us back to what we're talking about today, right? We're not trying to solve the hurdles today. We're trying to talk about the things that we need to consider. There is so much brain power and knowledge and expertise at this particular table right now that I am completely confident that we can overcome any hurdle if we set our minds to do the good work. So I want to kind of bring us back to what Senator Hoffman was talking about and how uh leader Stevenson started us off. You know what what is the purpose of the Capitol Mall? How did Melissa and uh Speaker Ammerida Hortman see the mall? Anyone who walked the mall with Melissa, even if it was at 2:00 in the morning, just going from the chamber back to the so knew that what she wanted for this space was for the embodiment of Cat Gilbert, that this is the people's front yard. This mall doesn't belong to the legislators. It doesn't belong to admin. It doesn't belong um to any agency. It belongs to the people for the use of the people to uh be civically engaged to promote democracy to uh understand our history and why the generations before us felt it so important to build this um space and time for people. And I think as we look at how it can be used, there are so many ways that uh speaker Ammerita Hortman talked about this when we were doing the Capitol Mall design framework, right? Whether it is allowing entertainment space on Dr. Martin Luther King Drive, whether it was creating a classroom of from trees for students to come and learn about history, you know. So it is about preserving green space, making it comfortable for a family to come and picnic on the lawn if that's how they wanted to engage. Um the history um uh center and capboard are working together on apps to give walking tours that people can interact with. I don't see it as any one group having all of the best ideas, but I think collectively if we focus on how do we make this space more open for the general public because I agree with you, Representative Schultz, it is about openness and how maybe we define the Hortman State Park a little differently than how DNR defines or we have defined previously in statute. We could have a whole separate chapter in law that defines this particular state park and what the word quote state means in that park and how the agencies all interact. Um I believe that you know admin does a great job in event permitting and so could we have a portal that is used that way. So maybe how it interacts with this might be a topic that we would talk about too. But for uh people to be able to come and learn about the different trees that grow and thrive in Minnesota to learn about the history to picnic with their family whatever it may be. I think that or the other thing in wayfinding we talked about in the excuse me in the capital mall design framework is how do we use wayfinding to also highlight the exceptional people of the state of Minnesota much like the scholars walk that was done at the University of Minnesota and with the new tribal uh flag plaza how do we incorporate the tribal uh history of the land and I think it's really a great idea that uh Senator Hemingston Joerger said to include the tribal nations in this conversation. So anyway, I'll stop talking, but I believe everything is doable when good people come together with a mindset of here is something that we're talking about. How do we make it a reality? Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh I believe Senator Hemison Jagger is up next. >> Thanks again, uh Mr. chair and just totally full agreement with what uh co-chair clever said so beautifully and eloquently. And as I kind of think about this too, you know, we're thinking about, you know, my thinking about this is like we're setting kind of like the vision and like the values of this, but like the the pieces of it are going to come in with these other agencies. And so this is kind of my question maybe more for like the CAT board and like the historical society and some of the other agency stuff like when you guys are planning the pieces of this like you have for example um accessibility for people with disabilities as you're going with these thoughtful processes. Yes. >> Yes. >> Uh Mr. D, go ahead. >> Yeah. Uh Mr. Chair, uh Senator, yes, that's true. We in the capital mall design framework as well as our comp plan we uh discussed uh ADA accessibility as well as working with department of administration to implement that those practices and the historical society. >> All right. Thank you. Good. Uh Senator Hemston Jagger, go ahead. >> That's just wanted to double check that. Thank you very much. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Uh other comments, thoughts at this point in time? Uh, Senator Green. Nope. Okay. Just wanted to make sure >> getting long here. Yes, you're repeating yourself. That's my comment. >> All right. No, I'm kind of noticing we're coming up on about an hour here. So, I I think we've I think we've done a pretty good job of hitting a lot of key points right now. I think what we'll be looking at for our next meeting which we'll be doing three weeks from today is uh getting a more definition from the uh cap planning board as to you know how they cover the area setting that uh getting into the cap gilbert design you know what he kind of envisioned there and starting some of those discussions so we get some of that basic education particularly for those of us that have not been in this world that much that would be very helpful if people have other thoughts and ideas that they'd like to make sure and we've taken the list of what we had earlier too but if you have some thoughts that we'd like to get queued up earlier versus later, please let me know. And if there is no more uh comments that I am seeing here, I will declare a journ. Thank you all.