well hello everyone and welcome to uh the city of shorewood's glenn hamley manitou neighborhood open house this is meeting number one of two this one's at two o'clock and there'll be another one at seven o'clock what we'd like to do is play you a pre-recorded video that shows and explains some of the details of the project and then after that we will have a question and answer period [Music] at that time if you have a question feel free to use the raise your hand feature that is uh located in the right hand side of the screen and then the host will allow you to unmute your mic and at that time you can ask your question and i'll follow up with an answer to the best of my ability um so with that i will start sharing uh the video and it's about 18 minutes long and then we'll follow up with some questions and answers welcome to the neighborhood open house for the city of shorewood glen road amlie road and manitou lane construction project the goal of this meeting is to provide an overview of the work that is needed and clarify why it's needed as well as clear up any misinformation pertaining to the project and provide an opportunity for residents to give their feedback before we dive in the city would like to address some concerns brought up by residents about this project our goal is to keep communication with residents clear and easy to understand but with the understanding that there are a lot of variables associated with the advancement of the project firstly final design is currently at 60 which means we are still gathering data and information including feedback from residents the final plans will not be completed until mid-november or later there is a timeline at the end of this video that explains how and when this project will progress secondly due to resident feedback an additional time was set for this virtual open house to allow for more residents to attend the first presentation is scheduled for 2 pm the second for 7 pm we want to ensure the correct information for this project is accessible to all please note that these meetings are not city council meetings and as such there will not be a vote on anything these meetings are purely intended to update residents on planning progress thirdly the hennepin county regional rail authority or the hcrra indicated that they would consider stormwater treatment within their property as the city advanced the conversation and provided additional detail on the design to the hcrra they indicated that they would not allow the stormwater treatment to occur on their property fourthly a proposal was accepted by the city to have henning and associates assist in acquiring any easements that would be required for the project cities frequently hire a right-of-way manager if there are easements needed across multiple properties for a temporary easement that would just be needed during construction the process is the same for both the city will negotiate directly with the property owner and in most cases the two parties reach an agreement when there are no other options eminent domain is the statutory process that can be used to determine compensation due to a private property owner for the public acquisition of their parcel the city is confident that eminent domain will not be needed finally the city has budgeted a total of 3.6 million dollars for the design and construction of this project the project is to be funded through street reconstruction bonds and the various water sanitary sewer and storm sewer utility funds the project is not being assessed the project area consists of glenn road manitou lane and am lee road these roads were originally constructed in the early 70s and are experiencing various levels of deterioration including alligator lock and transverse cracking and are in turn becoming structurally deficient the city of shorewood public works staff performs extensive patching each year but the roads are now in need of a full repair in addition to the road deterioration there are areas of poor drainage on these roads and throughout the neighborhood as for utilities there are currently limited storm sewer facilities and no water main the city has utilized davies tree service to inventory the trees within the project area and were out on site the week of october 12th they have placed small aluminum tags with a unique number on trees that are within city property city right-of-way or trees that are very near or on the right-of-way line for the purpose of taking inventory they recorded information for these trees such as species size and health of the tree they have also recorded information on some trees within private property but have not tagged them this information is used to understand how to best preserve the trees trees of poor health are of undesirable species such as cottonwood box elder or ash due to the threat of emerald ash borer are typically removed if within the construction limits trees in good health size and species are reviewed in more detail to understand if they can be preserved during construction each tree is looked at on a case-by-case basis as many factors may influence the impacts to the tree or its root system as of now water main is being included in the design to further understand its costs and impacts to the overall project the decision to include water main will be made at one or both of the following needles the final plans and specifications meeting scheduled for winter 2020 and or at the awarding of the contract scheduled for winter 2021. sign up for project updates on the city's website stay informed on when these meetings will take place additionally residents are not required to connect to city water at this time if they do choose to connect they will be charged a ten thousand dollar connection fee residents will also be responsible for the costs to install their water service line from the right of way into their home if water main is not installed during this project it will likely be over 20 years until this opportunity is available again there are many known drainage concerns that have been identified by residents throughout the project and neighborhood this includes drainage issues along the roadways in yards from one property owner to the next and general concerns with drainage systems throughout the development if the roadway is simply repaved to its current width and elevations none of these drainage issues will be addressed and will likely persist for another 20 plus years until the street needs full reconstruction the reconstruction of the roadway as part of this project allows for the opportunity to address these concerns storm sewer is proposed to be constructed in the roadway and will significantly improve any drainage that currently makes it to the roadway additionally the design will provide for inlets at lower areas that should help alleviate issues in several front yards that don't adequately drain in some locations we may install sump pump discharge inlets to allow for some pump water to be collected by the storm sewer and not become a nuisance industry the several following figures show a zoomed in area of a segment of street within the project our intent is to show you what the anticipated impacts will be for the project so that we can further discuss concerns with residents remember the design is only about 60 complete so there are some items that can and will change as we continue to finalize the design these figures show the preliminary construction limits as a pink dashed line trees to be removed as a red x trees that may be impacted as a yellow x and existing drainage direction shown by the red arrows the tree shown with the yellow x will further be reviewed as we complete the final design to fully understand if the tree can be saved or is required to be removed water main is proposed and is shown by the blue line hydrant locations are also shown existing drainage patterns will generally be maintained in this area and the proposed drainage details are still being designed a new cul-de-sac will be built at the west end of glen road and will have a 90 foot diameter to allow delivery vehicles school buses and emergency vehicles adequate space to turn around this portion of glen road will be constructed with curb and gutter and measure 22 feet wide from the back of the curb due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the roadway will be signed as no parking driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line if private landscaping exists within the right-of-way it will likely be impacted by construction and is recommended that residents remove what they would like to protect prior to construction advanced notice will be given out prior to construction this portion of glenn road will be constructed with curb and gutter and will also measure 22 feet wide from the back of the curb due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the roadway will be signed as no parking driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line and existing drainage patterns will generally be maintained in this area there are several proposed water services that conflict with trees survey staff will be collecting information on the location of existing wells and this will better allow us to appropriately spot the location of the new water services and may allow for the preservation of some of the trees these details will be reviewed over the next several weeks staff is also aware of several drainage issues in this segment and is reviewing potential solutions this portion of glenn road from manitou lane to county road 19 will be constructed with curb and gutter and will be slightly wider than the western portion measuring 24 feet wide from the back of the curve again due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the road may be signed as no parking driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line this segment has a high point in the roadway and is a split in the watershed within the project drainage west of the high point is proposed to be piped across the manitou lane intersection and piped near the low point further west down glenn road this portion of glen road from manitou lane to county road 19 will be constructed with curb and gutter and will measure 24 feet wide from the back of the curve again due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the roadway may be signed as no parking driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line this segment has a private storm sewer tile line that drains water from the south side of glen road towards the north and ultimately to the amlie road cul-de-sac staff is continuing to review how this tile currently functions and how it will be utilized after the construction of the projects this portion of glenn road from manitou lane to county road 19 will be constructed with curb and gutter and will measure 24 feet wide from the back of the curve again due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the roadway may be signed as no parking driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line this segment has a high point in the roadway and may require the construction of short retaining walls on the south side of the roadway near this location this portion of glenn road will be constructed with curb and gutter and will measure 24 feet wide from the back of the curb curb radii at the county road intersection will be large enough to accommodate entering and exiting vehicles onto glenn road again due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the roadway may be signed as no parking driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line this segment of roadway slopes toward the county road 19 intersection and drainage will continue to flow in that direction manitou lane will be constructed with curb and gutter and will measure 24 feet wide from the back of the curb due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the roadway may be signed as no parking the 90 degree corner at the amley road intersection will be constructed wider to better accommodate oncoming vehicles driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line this segment of roadway slopes toward amli road and overland drainage will continue to flow in that direction family road will be constructed with curb and gutter and will measure 24 feet wide from the back of the curb again due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the roadway may be signed as no parking driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line this segment of roadway slopes toward the east of the cul-de-sac and drainage will continue to flow in that direction this section of emily road will be constructed with curb and gutter and will measure 24 feet wide from the back of the curve again due to the narrow width of the street it is anticipated that one side of the roadway may be signed as no parking the ambly road cul-de-sac will be enlarged to the extent possible to the south but is limited in size by nearby cultural resources the proposed cul-de-sac is approximately 75 feet in diameter and only accommodates a typical passenger vehicle larger vehicles such as snow plows and school buses will need to make point turns in order to turn around driveways will be removed and replaced in kind from the curb out to the right-of-way line this roadway currently drains through a culvert near the north end of the cul-de-sac it is proposed to route the drainage through a new storm sewer line within an existing drainage and utility easement on the west side of parcel 24740 this is in the same location as the existing sanitary sewer piping bolton has created an interactive web page called what's under my street this webpage is public and can be found by googling what's under my street and clicking on the first link that appears this interactive web page allows users to explore where different utility services are traditionally located and identifies how these utilities connect before wrapping up we want to address the concerns with disrupting native american burial grounds during this project it is a felony to willfully impact any burial mound bolton mink has worked with the city the state archaeologist and the minnesota bureau of indian affairs to identify to the best of our ability the location of known burial mounds within the project area based on historical information it is our goal to reduce the risk to the city of shorewood throughout this entire construction project and to ensure that we are taking the appropriate actions to not have any impacts to known burial mounds the first step in meeting this goal is completing research to identify potential mound locations then reviewing the proposed design to minimize the risk of encountering or disturbing any artifacts during construction this can be achieved by being cognizant of previous disturbances to the landscape such as where trenches have already been dug to install storm sewer sanitary sewer or other small utilities alternates in design layout by creating as much separation from the known locations as possible and utilizing different construction methods such as open cut construction or directionally drilled construction for the pipe installation the proposed design is then submitted to the state archaeologist and bureau of indian affairs for review and comment the city has just submitted the proposed design to those agencies to start the initial review and comment period and it is anticipated to take approximately 30 days to receive feedback at that point further research may be required adjustments to the design or construction methods may be required or the project could be permitted the timeline for this project is as follows on march 11 2019 the city authorized the preparation of a feasibility study on november 25th 2019 the city received and accepted the feasibility study on august 13 2020 the city authorized the preparation of the final plans and specifications for the project today october 22nd is the neighborhood informational meeting and from here we continue on into the final design phase of the project the final design could be completed and presented as early as november 2020 later this winter the project will be advertised and open to bidding the city plans to award the contract for this project to the lowest bidder in winter 2021 construction is slated to occur in summer of 2021 with tree removal starting as early as march 2021 and more invasive removals and excavations starting in may construction is anticipated to end in september 2021 we will now be entering into the question and answer portion of this meeting if you have any additional questions after the meeting please contact city engineer andrew buddy via email or by phone thank you all right uh thank you everyone i'm just going to pull out pull up the powerpoint here and in case there are any questions that you would have i'll share that here briefly okay are there are there any questions at the moment if you have your hand raised uh greg will will let you in and i'll give you please remember to state your name and your address for the record and then just remember that all of these uh this video will be is being recorded and will be posted to the city website uh later today so rich aing you had a question and i believe your mic is unmuted so if you have a question go ahead yes yes richard 25 170 glenn let's go one at a time please okay okay uh as the homeowner of 25 170 glen road the elevation is 956.4 four holes east of me at glen rod 2580 the elevation is 960.5 that's four feet uphill now the last time i checked wsb hasn't been able to gravity feed up hill so how is the storm water going from the west and the glenn to the east there is a port currently in the existing condition a portion of stormwater does go out the west end of glen road near where the cul-de-sac will be we will continue to allow a very similar amount of water to head out that direction and with underground piping we'll be able to route water some of the water back to the north or excuse me back to the east and to a proposed ponding location so it's not going to be overland flow but it would be through piping okay this uh this piping uh first of all i guess since the open house held on december the 18th 2018 almost two years ago the question has been asked where is this water going to be kept and to this date i have not seen where it's going to be kept i mean back in august the 24th the city recommended to the elected officials for option number three to be held in the hennepin county right away uh where today is the water going to be held i am still continuing to work through some of those details okay uh okay thank you and but so i guess the question in the video you said that uh uh henning has been contacted but you are confident they will not be used also uh it is uh indicated by the city that no eminent domain is going to be used but you are proposing a 90-foot culversack uh down at the west end the glen road has any homeowner already given up the easement for this 90-foot cul-de-sac today yes they have they haven't so the city already has the landed okay very good um back on august 24th i asked you did you have the hydraulic analysis study for the project area and when are they going to be made public i guess the more question is is where are the numbers and if you don't have them today it's insane to be going ahead with this roads project it's because it's not being driven by the numbers basically you're you're doing a project and you have no idea if the rates and flows uh for the holding pawn are gonna be uh accurate so do you have the numbers today for the analysis no i don't we have the existing numbers and per the permitting requirements we have to meet certain match those same rate controls so we will size the ponding future pond and position it so that we do meet those ray controls and are able to meet get a permit from the permitting agencies so there's a lot of moving pieces to hydraulic design and we're continuing to evaluate the best options that we have at the time and if they no longer become viable we move on to the next one and continue to continue to explore those options okay as a homeowner i want to know what the height of the road bed is going to be after it is put in i'm not interested in finding out after the fact that it's too late uh water that now was able uh running off a property is it going to be blocked or impeded by the height of the new road either by the height of the road or by edging control so generally speaking this entire neighborhood drains over land from the south end of it to the north end of it the roadway with curb and gutter uh kind of down the middle will pick up generally pick up the water from the south side and it will be captured in storm water within or a storm sewer within the roadway water then that would fall north of the roadways that would continue to flow over land across your existing properties the way it currently does today okay uh mr bud have uh you or anybody within the city of sherwood uh had any contact with hennepin county uh regarding any uh water drainage regarding this project prior to august 24 2020 and if you have when when were those dates yes i reached out to staff at the hennepin county who was my point of contact and this was early in the year i don't know this specific date uh off the top of my head but we had a phone conversation and i asked if hennepin county regional rail authority would entertain the idea of putting a storm water pond or similar type facility within their right of way they had indicated that that staff person had indicated that they would and so it would require more than just a typical permit that they require but would require an agreement with that i took that as an understanding that we could potentially come to a mutual agreement between the two agencies since that date we've provided a little more detailed information and the hennepin county rail authority has indicated they do not want or will not allow our storm water ponding to be on their property they still will allow storm sewer piping to cross their property through the permitting process but will not allow the stormwater ponding on their property good i'm glad you touched on that because as a property owner on the west end the glenn and you are now stating that you're going to be draining all the water on the west and the glen to the east uh to an unknown determination but yet hennepin county is not going to allow any uh access other than just the cross are you proposing at this time that uh the homeowners on glenn road through their backyards or on their property are gonna have a uh uh ditch dug and uh a culvert put in to bring this water from the west uh to dump it somewhere east is that what you're you're proposing i continue to explore my options i don't know right now [Music] okay my final question uh glen road homes 24 995 and glen road homes 24975 90 of the water coming off uh this land uh there needs to be a catch basin installed uh directly in front of the rip raft on the south side of the glen to keep this water from uh spilling on to the rest of the neighborhood uh will the city be putting in a catch basin in front of these two homes because like i said 90 of the water that's coming into the neighborhood is coming off of these two homes glen road 24 995 and 24975 uh i don't know if a catch basement will be put directly in front of their property but they those properties were intentionally designed and approved to send their water out to the street in anticipation of a project very similar to like very similar to this uh at the time when those properties were getting built they thought that the project was going to occur probably a few years a few years earlier but we will capture that drainage and route it in this in the storm sewer that is in with that is proposed to be within the street but doesn't it make sense to put at that to put us someplace to capture it at the source before it's directed further downstream i mean that's the source 90 of the water uh doesn't it make sense to put a catch basin at the source and catch it there uh it might but i am still working through some of those details okay well thank you mr bud you're welcome um greg larson has his hand up he could be unmuted there you go greg if you could say your name and uh address right it's greg larson at 255 35 richard circle can you guys hear me okay you're a little quiet if you could speak up a little louder i was just surprised to find out that uh my main interest really is what happens to the woods and then to another extent you know just how my taxpayer money is being spent and i was surprised to find out that what was called option 3 suddenly went away there's been a lot of concern by people of what's going on there and i think everybody felt that uh option three was a pretty good uh compromise on the thing so i was just wondering what what what happened there who did you talk to uh down at hennepin county and did they lead you down the rosy path that this was okay to the point where you actually presented it to the consul as a option what happened uh i would i would say yeah i reached out to a staff member um and i i would say that um i'm not exactly sure what happened because at the time she she was indicating that there are some agreements like this in place elsewhere but uh as as it got brought up the the chain of command at hennepin county or for the hennepin county rail authority you know their ultimate goal is to preserve the corridor for future light rail and by allowing this that that directly impacts their goal of preserving that corridor so i would say maybe the question was not asked up high enough in the chain of command at hennepin county um but yes i did go off of kind of her her and i understanding and and that is what had me recommended to the city council at that time who who was it that you talked to back i'm not going to give names okay so someone maybe should go back and say that you guys were led on to believe i can talk to uh commissioner uh kellison about that but it just seems that a lot of people me really had kind of uh lost sight of what was going on in this project and what's happening to the woods based on the console's vote earlier this fall that they're going to go with option three and i think a lot of people are still under the assumption that that's what's uh happened so i think that somebody maybe one of our elected officials can uh talk to commissioner callison and find out what happened because uh i don't think that that's fair that they were led you to believe it's okay and then pull the plug on you in the last minute especially after the uh console already voted that that was their preferred option yes uh you know we were disappointed too from a staff level um because it did kind of surprise us we have had conversations both the person that i spoke to and their higher ups on a staff level both staff here at city hall and staff level at hennepin county so we have already addressed those conversations all right so how does a street with um impact the need for a wastewater pond at all uh first it is not a wastewater pond it is a storm water pond and well waste water wastewater treats sewage storm water ponds treats depends on your definition but okay go ahead anyhow um the permitting the watershed permitting requirements um require that if you add additional impervious surface then you have to provide rate control water quality and volume reduction and so by the city widening these existing streets that creates additional impervious surface and then we have to provide some sort of ponding to meet the rate control and volume reduction requirements that are required under those permits so the more impervious surface we add the more pawning we would need what's the what's the width of the streets there now um i'm not i'm i'm trying to blank on the existing with the streets right now 22. 22 feet fairly narrow right correct yes so they're narrower now than 22 feet yes they are uh and so the west portion of glen road is proposed to be 22 feet and i i believe that's a couple of feet wider than the existing condition and um the rest of the development which would be the eastern portion of glenn road manitou and emily are proposed to be 24 feet wide and those all are slightly wider than the existing roadways right now as well by a couple of feeds if i recall correctly so how much more impervious surface would the uh street set the width that you just mentioned how much more impervious service would that add i don't know that number off the top of my head you get it i can get it and follow up yeah okay thank you um you said that the plan is about 60 complete is that what you mentioned correct i had an email here from uh larue the rudd from back on october 8th and he said it was 60 percent complete at the time and walking the dog on the trail i've noticed that there's a lot of engineering work that's been going on there what what's left to be completed and what has what are they doing out there now uh right now right now where uh surveyors are out gathering a little bit addition a little bit more additional information they need to gather the location of residence wells so that we know where to stub out water services we are getting a little bit more width kind of along the road corridor to help confirm any impacts or lack thereof to some of the private property so we're getting the survey all the way out to the right-of-way line that's some of the information they're gathering yet currently here and then the drainage the drainage solution still ends up just being the largest the largest um problem for me to solve yet okay thanks um what how does the uh there's been a lot of preliminary work done in this whole project over the last least year that i've been aware of it where does the cost of all that preliminary work fall as far as the overall budget for the project um typically for street reconstruction projects like this where you're doing pretty significant utility work with it like water main and storm sewer typically about 25 of the overall project cost is related to engineering legal and administrative costs that includes the preliminary designs the surveying the final design preparation the construction inspection the staking legal aspects of it for advertising and legal services for acquiring right-of-way and whatnot so that's you know it's about 25 plus or minus all right thanks so i i didn't notice that the in the uh recent capital improvement budget for because it was this year next year that the glen road stormwater project had a cost of 819 000 is that still considered accurate uh yes it is at this point even though the options that were presented to the console you know the one two three you know the number three being along the trail even all those costs i think all of them were two of them were under a hundred thousand and one of them was less than two hundred thousand so where does the additional eight hundred and you know six hundred thousand dollars come from uh that's all the storms who are piping that would be within the streets six hundred thousand dollars uh for catch basins manholes uh piping yes so that so the storm water costs for the project is really budgeted at almost almost 820 000 and that appears to be accurate to you uh that's what the capital improvement budget says about 820 000 for the stormwater part of the glen road project just seems like a lot of money to me uh yeah and i that that estimate was based off of originally going to um the city-owned parcel on the north side of the trail and if you recall during the august meeting where i i recommended the three or i presented the three stormwater options that we looked at in more detail in the in the feasibility study that that one and in excuse me in the feasibility study that one was shown as a probably a pretty large pond on that city-owned parcel and when we presented the three options in august we had we had tried to size it for what was truly only needed for the improvements related to the project and nothing above and beyond and i believe that option was still just under two hundred thousand dollars uh for that and was the more expensive of the three options so other other storm pond options that i'm looking at currently are still less in cost than routing it to the um city-owned parcel on the north side of the trail okay so what would possibly be the other options besides over on the north side of the trail in the woods what where else would you would the water be stored uh we're looking at several options some of them are underground vaults some of them are multiple rain gardens throughout the project and a couple other options as well so in those cases that would be those the rain gardens and such would be somewhere on the south side of the trail uh yeah they'd be they'd be nestled in within existing right away um some of those some of those ideas some of those options are less than desirable from a long-term maintenance perspective but they are still viable options to meet our permitting requirements so so it sounds like there's a lot of work left to do on the storm water part of the project uh it doesn't seem like i mean it seems like everything's still up in the air as to exactly what's going to happen with the storm water that yeah we're at 60 design and and that's where it sits so when would you think because there's a lot of interest there was a petitions and online petitions that were going around this summer you know that there's at least 400 500 people that have a great interest in what's happening in the woods so i was wondering when when would you expect to have the storm water part of this thing pin down i would say it's pretty realistic around mid-november okay about a month from now or so yeah i mean because of the interest by the city or by the residents you know both in shore and other you know tonka bay and excelsior g how do you plan on presenting that because that's probably not more interesting number of people than what's really going on on glenn road as far as street width and stuff so how is that going to be presented and if that becomes part of the final plan when will the public have a chance to comment and see that before it goes to the console um i don't know if that will be presented any sooner than when the final design is presented because it's probably all going to come together at the same time my understanding i think and that came from i think uh a console meeting notes from maybe in august or september where it sounded like once the final is presented to i think this came from zurby i think that once the final is presented to the console then there's no chance of of neighborhood input impacting it at all in other words once the final is done it's final is that correct or not uh yes that is but i i would i would say this as as sensitive as that north park city-owned parcel north of the trail is if i if i can't come up with other engineering solutions that solve it um and that ends up being the last resort um we will communicate that uh with interested parties well but but that seems to me we were this is this is something that i'm interested in and i know a lot of other people are interested in a lot of people are under the assumption as i was up to a week ago that everything was cool everything was good everything was going to happen on the south side of the trail and we were even led to believe that through some of the members of the council if in fact that's not what's going to happen then i think the city owes the residents a chance to hear about it and comment it before it becomes final because what we're being told right now is that the final plans are the final plans and that's it so i mean what i'm asking is that somewhere between now and the final final that another session is had where the residents can have input on what's going on with the woods on the north side of the trail that's what i'm asking can i get a commitment from the city who is on this call besides you uh andrew can we get it can i get a commitment that there's going to be the capability of the residents to comment on the final storm water plan here greg this is greg larud um we will we're very positive that we're going to be able to come up with something on the south side of the the rail property if we end up having to go to the north side and as you recall from that end of august meeting that option was remained on the table for the council but we understand the sensitivity here if we know that we don't have an alternative on the south side we will communicate that as soon as we possibly can and the decision there is at the council to to take that input but we would take that to the council i'm not asking what i'm asking is not that you're going to tell us what you're doing is that we as citizens as taxpayers have the ability to comment on it and potentially change it if it is a problem to us that's what we're asking that's what i'm asking i hear what you're just going to tell us not that you're just going to tell us but that we're going to have a chance to comment on it and potentially impact what's happening that's what i'm asking and greg what i guess maybe i wasn't clear enough if it isn't the solution isn't going to be on the south side we will communicate that to the council before we get direction to go to the north and so there would be an opportunity and then that would be the council's decision to to open that up and and if and if you want that commitment that should come from the council is there anybody is there any elected people on the phone here today i don't think i think it's not a council meeting so they're not in attendance from what i see okay so what i'm asking them and guess this is going to be recorded in some way is that i'm asking our elected officials to guarantee me and other people that are very interested in this and there's a lot of them that we're going to have a chance to comment on the final before the final stormwater drainage plan comes about because again but we're being told and i've been told by zurby and i think it was it was in the council meetings that once the final is presented then it's done they're going to vote on it and all of the citizens are it's tough luck that's my understanding maybe i'm wrong but that's my understanding from the mayor greg i hear what you're saying we will definitely convey that to the council and i urge you to reach out to them as well well we'll do that thank you okay i had seen that elizabeth van has had her hand up for a while we could unmute her yes my name is elizabeth van i live at 24 710 family road i have concerns with the entire project yes with the storm water where it's going where it's being directed i have the wetland pond um one of the neighbors that has the wetland pond in the backyard dealing with the flooding situation um the sediment that's been rising in that pond and i also heard you say that from glen road you're going to pipe the water east still not sure where it's going um also the concern is is that you on the map not sure how to describe it but between my house and another house we have already a drainage um where the water drains and goes down to the wetland and we have met and discussed and you've come out and said yeah we're having a lot of erosion problems and numerous problems because of the amount of water that continues to increase going down there piping it east where i live that's a concern not sure where you're going to put the water is a concern making the roads larger and putting drainage and curb in it directs the water even faster to the end points so to putting the water into those pipes directing them east means it's going to carry even faster so we're naturally being flooded out with almost 80 percent of the neighborhood's water coming to the backyard into a wetland that was never designed to hold that much water we've talked about how there's a culvert this wetland is kind of divided into an east and west side because there's a land mass there and that's a sewer line and on the west side of it is a covert but on the east side there is no culvert talk to the hennepin county they've said yes we'd look at putting a culvert in on the east side however that has to come from the city no mention in these plans of doing that so this side where we've got at least two if not two maybe three neighbors on the east side of this pond unless that pond floods up to go over that inland mass we're still getting flooded out and i'm now hearing in from your review pipe the water east even faster so naturally getting flooded out for water that should have never been directed at this flow to this wetland it's not a holding pond it's a wetland now i've been told that by the state department that's a wetland and yet it's being directed as a holding pond there's a concern and i've also heard you go not sure what you're going to do about it i know in previous meetings there was discussion about is there even talk about dredging that's very expensive you have to be extremely careful it's a wetland and but we're going well if you get the dnr and you get all of that in there and you look at the cost might be a possibility but yet these plans don't discuss that at all is that been taken off the table not completely it it probably is not going to happen with this project the city is completing uh an assessment of their stormwater ponds throughout the entire community being a stormwater pond correct this is a wetland basin that existed prior to your homes being built there that has always existed there uh and we are not using it as a storm water pond it is it is not it is not being accounted for for our treatment uh of any of the stormwater but it does just by the natural characteristics of it does provide rate control for the water leaving the site because that's how it that is what it has historically done in this area when you say you're not using it as a water holding pond that's very curious because it is a city pipe that is openly directing water down there it's not just a runoff by natural there's a city pipe that's directing water down there correct but that was that basin was not constructed as a storm water pond it was a low spot prior to development of this entire development water has drained there historically it did that before your development it does that currently that has never changed uh correct we are directing storm sewer pipe towards it but that's because it's getting captured upstream and routed that way when it historically had always made it there whenever you redirect with piping you're going to cause the water to move faster causing water to flood yes when you talk about it naturally was flowing that direction it had to go over it naturally had to go over land that would then also help reduce and slow down the rate of flow but also absorb that water that pipe does not allow that not only that we've discussed about the erosion that is occurring there so we have concerns with redirecting more water um then i was also told and it was discussed even in august meaning that um the concern too is that i've heard the city is supposed to when you do have a pipe like that it is your city's job to watch the rate of that water and the amount of water that is going down in there and in years for years it's like okay we're taking in more neighbors water we're taking in at a higher rate of water we have an erosion problem that has not been there for decades and has only in the last few years occurred significantly which is also a tall tale of more waters being rushed down there at a faster rate what is being done to control that i saw in your plan that it looks like from two houses down to maybe put is that a pipe is that a gully is it a what is that pipe being directed two houses down that is a pipe instead of discharging it into the ravine that you're concerned about right next to your property that has the erosion we are proposing to realign it over to a different property line that has an existing drainage utility easement in it that water would actually discharge into the west basin that you refer to in your pond and not in the east one that impacts you and so um i see that as a very large benefit for you and your property you're right that's a very large benefit for my property not so sure that other neighbors are going to agree about their property because it's going to have to flood out before it will get to my property so you're right it's a benefit for me but if i'm looking at this as a community and as a neighborhood i still have big concerns don't wish my neighbors to be flooded out either and i already know that they have drainage and problems they have the soil erosion problems so they're already struggling too on the issue of the vote yes i was going to say by allowing by reconstructing these streets provides an opportunity to address many of these concerns that you have if the street is just milled and overlaid or reclaimed without curbing gutter and no significant reconstruct these conditions will exist for probably the next 20 years and the city will not address them if we are able to reconstruct the streets we can address a lot of the concerns that you have by adding curving gutter on glen road we'll be able to capture some of the water that currently drains down through that piping and to that cul-de-sac and will be able to intercept that therefore reducing some of the drainage coming towards your property and so it provides opportunity to correct some of these drainage issues i understand working and resurfacing on the road maybe putting another pipe in between the two other neighbors that agree to help direct that water into the west side of this wetland pond but to say that the only way we can fix this drainage problem to put this huge intrusive road in with curbs and gutters i don't agree with you're talking about not just taking in the water that's on amli road but also with the curbs and gutter taking all the water on glen road and magnitude water and re-routing it extensively now there was a neighbor that talked about the height difference from glen road to amli so you're gonna have to really dig down deep this is not a simple three foot uh dig down this is going to be an intrusive dig down because you have to angle those pipes and if that neighbor is correct that you've got a four feet difference here you're gonna have to really angle angle those pipes to get that water here so you're doing massive amounts of digging you're also digging and impacting more if than a 20 foot wide street because of all the safety features that you have to put in so it's not just putting a road in that's 24 feet wide it's also going to extend out at least 6 to 10 feet because you have to put those safety girders in i don't know if that's the correct term on there and no not the curb and gutter but you have to put these safety cages in so when the construction men are down there working they can safely put those pipes in so and you have to give them room to work so you're talking about a much more intrusive than just putting 24 foot curb gutter street in then when i also go back to is the indian mound that is on amli road in the vicinity of 24 710 amly road that you stated in the paperwork and presented in august and by your own paperwork their own recommendation storm sewer rain guarded and drainage basin improvements should avoid the 24 710 emily road and the immediate vicinity your project does not avoid your project definitely is intrusive there is a discussion of a 50-foot barrier within the indian mount not possible even if you say well we're going to get an extension 25 foot barrier not possible so you are now going against what these own recommendations are the insistence on we want to put this road in here we want to dig it down extensively deep i'm going but in august their own recommendations were might want to not do that and this issue of well we're presenting it to the state archaeologists department and you also have to have approval from the indian affairs office on their that's not a simple procedure particularly when in your own writing in august says we advise against this and now we know elizabeth we we did recommend uh not putting or avoiding those areas and that is exactly what we are proposing we are rerouting the pipe to avoid uh the areas closest to uh indian burial mounds that is exactly what we're doing in the process that we're going through that has not changed so taking so putting the 20-foot road in widening the colder sac um which is not just putting that road in but you're going to need to take more land because you have to again the workers have to be able to dig down there and set the pipe safely um you think that's avoiding the indian mounds we yes yes they they they are to the to the best of our ability we've placed the water main on the south side we've rerouted the storm sewer we're not enlarging the cul-de-sac to the north um but are enlarging it to the south where we do have available right away we are doing what we think is to the best of our ability avoiding those impacts and we've submitted that information to the state archaeologist and bureau of indian affairs to get feedback from them to see if they agree or if they want to see some adjustments to the design or more research done on our behalf on their behalf here's my question you said you are not enlarging the colder sac on the north side of the amly road correct we are not pushing the limits further north than what currently exists on the map you have no we haven't and you've talked about even taking the trees out on the map we show them as they they could potentially be impacted because that's a 60 inch maple tree there uh with roots that probably extend 20 30 feet out from the base so just by us reconstructing the roadway um there's a chance we could impact its roots and that's why we've identified it as with a yellow x so we can take a closer look at it as we as we wrap up the design but there are other trees that you marked here's a question the person the presentation that you just presented is that online because some of those pictures you went street by street um and the and the mapping is more detailed and clearer than the one that's on the website now the city website um so the presentation right now is that also being posted online so we can go so i can say refer to this map refer to this map yes this entire meeting and the one at seven o'clock will be posted to the project's website thank you uh eric lemke so you got your hand up you want to go next yes thank you my name is eric lemke i'm at five five three five wedgewood drive uh my question is on the ratio of you are expanding the amount of surface area so you're going to need more stormwater drainage settling area cracks is that is that part of the discussion and problem yep the expansion would the opportunity of using probable papers and some of the cul-de-sacs just like uh kowalski's kowalski's parking lot has would that be an option for having less of an impact or or creating smaller uh drainage ponds that's all my question um pervious pavers is an option i don't believe there's any within the city of shorewood um currently or at least not on on city infrastructure there are some significant maintenance challenges with them with sanding and salting and plowing of the roadways they become challenging and with just having the amount of utilities underneath them they can have their benefit but we have not explored that option in great detail we have looked at providing other smaller stormwater basins similar to rain gardens kind of peppered throughout the project within the right of way we have explored that that that may we may be able to meet the permitting requirements with that but again from a maintenance a long-term maintenance perspective that is not preferred over having one more regional storm water pond let's go to uh odom who has their hand raised we have not heard from him yet we could unmute him uh hi it's kathy autumn i am as you know i sent a whole list of questions for clarification um to you the mayor all the potentials i see jen lavity is on here now um he just said all these questions would be answered in this presentation and of course they weren't so i'm i just am picking out two that are uh i'm not an engineer i i'm not sure what this means so i'm sure you can uh tell me if it's true and or uh if it is true this report um how in the world are you going to address it in um regarding the woods on 8 24 and like i say this could be wrong so you correct me 8 24 report was issued noting a 10 to 12 inch delineation pit i believe is what you called it it's marked with a pink tag over in the forest uh even going down 12 inches you hit water so the tax records note that this is a forest not a wetland but we all here in the neighborhood or on a high water table so is that report correct and what in the world are you going to do about it if you can only go down 12 inches what is that gonna accomplish to tear out all those trees that are filtering 100 gallons of water each so i believe there the port that you're referring to is a wetland delineation and so they go out and they dig down to see the soil characteristics and if they encounter water table and then they also assess the vegetation so we did complete a wetland delineation in that area just we understood where that was at um if you would recall back to the presentation that i did give to the council on the wedgwood forest i did we did state in there that there are some challenges with that site with the low water table we would not be able to get um the infiltration accommodated down on that site and uh because of the low water table we anticipated that if we wanted to put a storm water pond there that we would actually have to build up a berm around the perimeter generally around what the existing ground elevations is to make that work so there were a number of things that if we do if we if the city chooses to pursue that option which we're trying to find as many other solutions and and as we can that uh there are some there are some slight challenges with that site because we'd have to build up a berm around the pre around it to provide the stormwater treatment to get that separation from the groundwater okay then um on the same note uh do you agree that uh you you said don't call it a waste water pond it's a storm water pond well that's even worse for a neighborhood because it's got street runoff it's got minerals lead everything that runs down from the street so it is the the um pollution control is uh concerned about the municipal what drinking water and the fact that it's a municipal pond and that it is uh definitely could be a health hazard to all of the neighbors because of the groundwater uh can you answer that or address that sure the uh the storm water ponds are intended to capture sediment and runoff and any of the ickies that come with it just to put it bluntly that is exactly what they are intended to do and the intent of that is the city is able to capture them in a known location be able to remove them prior to that getting into wetlands or larger water bodies downstream so yes that is exactly what they're intended to do from a permitting perspective and a regional perspective um every city probably in this state has storm water ponds that are designed exactly to do that to protect the downstream natural resources and how does that affect you as being living next to it the only way to affect you no not that uh how will you maintain this uh given the fact that and and this could have changed in the last few days since the email but manor park uh is is at least 20 years old and the people are up in arms because it is a health hazard and it has not been cleaned it has not been taken care of uh why should we think you'll take care of another pond if you can't take care of the park and grant or the manor park now park and grant i believe you talk about planning let's we're gonna wait and let you know but uh you dug a 20-foot hole at a cost of a half a million dollars now again please correct me if i'm not right um because sometimes research gets ahead of you and then it's it's old news but uh it was a 20-foot hole dug at a cost of a half a million dollars and it has been halted due to those calculations after the fact and now the city is trying to get more land because it's too small i asked the mayor what the resolution was and that's of course in the questions that i didn't get answers to uh what's the resolution and how is that coming this is that hole you're referring is specific to men or pond no no that is park and grant 59.65 pid 3411723310041 that project cost a half a million it's not done it's halted because you don't have enough land it was too small the manor park holding pond storm water waste water whatever you want to call it is at least 20 yeah at least 20 years old and it has never been cleaned and the residents are very upset about the pollution so those are my those are my examples to say how in the world are you going to take care of wedgewood if you can't take care of the ones you've already built um to kind of correct some of your information there's a lot of stormwater ponds in the city that are 40 years old or 50 years old and so what the city is doing is they are going to go out and do a bathymetric survey which is where they quantify how much sediment has accumulated in the stormwater pond since they were created then on some of the ponds that are more filled with sediment they're going to pull some sediment samples off of that to better understand the level of contamination that is within them and then with those two pieces of information the city will be able to better plan and budget uh for the future cleaning of these storm water ponds okay if i could just ask when was that done at mata park the last time i don't know about manor park but um the city it hasn't trust me it hasn't been done it was it was tried and then um i believe the report says or the the council meeting or wherever wherever i found that was oh it could have been a newspaper article too that um it you were stumped at what to do that concerns me terribly um i don't know those exact details that you're talking about and that was a little bit this is this is uh greg larud kathy uh yeah it was in 2019 okay we had the study done on manor pond and at the time that it was recommended to be treated with alum it has since been treated with alum and it has improved dramatically in fact we get a lot of compliments from the neighborhood up there about its present condition you are correct several years ago it would be bad in the summer and this year we had no complaints at all and it's working well good thank you oh uh and maybe you covered this on the project itself the 2007 feasibility study admitted that uh you would only have 25 water mitigation after this project is that is that correct the 2007 study is outdated water rules have changed since then so okay so you're saying you're gonna you're gonna get more water you're going to have greater water mitigation we are going to meet the permitting requirements that we need to oh and that and that's what i'm sorry i missed it what is that i i don't know what you quite mean by water mitigation get absorbing the water getting the water uh relieving the water however you want to say it what is that requirement now and how much are you expecting i believe currently i believe the current requirement is that we need to uh abstract one inch over the new impervious surface that we create i want to say that ends up being about um sizing a storm water uh bio filtration basin around four thousand cubic yards of water that we would need to route through a biofiltration basin to accomplish that requirement okay thank you those were my questions you're welcome uh riching has his hand up again uh yes uh mr bud uh can you hear me yep okay good uh a couple of other residents uh have uh brought up uh hennepin county regional trail uh they are a big factor in this world project uh and i guess i'm concerned here because as you mentioned earlier uh you said that you haven't had any conversation with head of the county since uh you said july or june or uh january uh it's been it's been a while correct no no we've had conversations within the last month with them actually the last day with them oh okay sure yeah uh but i guess uh on uh october the 13th uh that was the conversation you had with the hennepin county where they told you absolutely uh no option number three is not going to happen correct uh that sounds about right yeah okay good um so let's get back to uh the the conversation before that was uh back in january you indicated uh just one o'clock this afternoon are you familiar with uh joel glatke yeah okay so you know you're aware of his title at the hennepin county and uh uh you you spoke with him before apparently here yeah okay good well i had a conversation with joel galatki uh this afternoon at one o'clock and i asked him specific questions about uh these proposals that the city of shorewood is uh having with uh water uh and using hennepin county right away and mr gladke was quite clear that uh the only conversation that uh has been talked about was a culvert that allows the city of shorewood to go under from the uh south side of the trail to the north side of the trail is that correct in your recollection as well uh no that's not the only conversation we've had with them okay and then uh i had the conversation with with uh mr gladke at one o'clock today and i asked him specifically will the county uh or you allow any uh uh routine of water in its right of way uh other than uh directly uh a culvert going from north to south and i was told by mr gladke that no that the county's position is is that not only will they not allow any more water within the county land uh they will not uh also uh allow any uh uh piping uh to uh direct so if you're gonna direct the water from the west and the glen to the east side you've already indicated and the conversation let me rich if you don't mind let me clarify one piece of that we're not sending water from the far west end of of glen all the way to the east end of glen we're not cutting through that hill just to clear that up it's just we're directing it to the east to a close to the low spot that exists over there could you be more specific on the low spot what little spot are you referring to the one in the roadway the one in the roadway uh on glen road west yes so you're so you well right now the last 460 feet of glen road uh where it terminates runs directly west it doesn't run east uh so you if you're not going to direct the water from the last 460 feet of glen road to the west you're right you're running it east then right because you you're not you're not pushing enough in the harding lane you're not pushing that water off over in the wedgwood uh your only option is is is is west or or east and i i guess earlier maybe i misunderstood you but you said you were going to be draining the water at the terminus of glen road and that new uh you said 90-foot cul-de-sac that that's a pretty good-sized area that's going to capture a lot of water that water is is uh ending up where now where's it's going to split some of the water over in that area already drains to the west and out the west end um of this development some of that water is going to continue to drain that way in the proposed condition and some of the water is going to drain back to the east very similar to the existing condition as well okay well i i can tell you right now as a homeowner at 25 170 that the water uh uh you're saying it drains towards me that's not the case it's drained towards me but you saying it goes to the west that that hurting circle then so you're saying that the water is going to continue the drain towards harding circle some of it will yes okay and then so i guess i'm confused on how you're getting the water to the east because the water doesn't drain uh uphill like i said there's a four a four foot one inch uh elevation difference there um so you to drain it to the east but getting back to the the question of of hennepin county and the hampton county regional railroad authority uh it seems like the city has not had any conversations of what's going to allow what's not going to allow because i'm being told today by joe gladly that hennepin county is not going to allow their right away the only thing that they're going to allow is a culvert that goes from the south side to the north side they are not going to allow any ponding they are not going to allow any uh culverts they are not going to allow uh all this in hennepin county so if if that's the case why you have crews out the last uh since the 13th of uh of uh october uh back i mean you're spending a lot of money and a lot of time trying to uh use uh hennepin counties right away when a hennepin county's not gonna allow it that's a simple question right there right about 13 days we're playing by the same rules he told you um we are not planning to put any improvements on their property at this point we're trying to find solutions that don't do that they've said they're not going to allow storm water ponding and we're going to abide by that the reason we're having survey gather information back there is you all have or you are the neighbors along there all have rear property lines back there so we're trying to get a clear indication of where that is because there are several existing uh property pins back there that we're trying to get access to also all of the most of the development sheet drains from the south side to the north side so all of your backyards on the north side of glen drain out to the hennepin county right away water is still going to go that way after the proposed condition and we need to ensure that we can accommodate those elevations so we're gathering a little bit of information back there to understand what the elevations are because ultimately our water from this project will still discharge towards the hennepin county right away we're not saying we're putting piping in the hanover county right away we're saying we're putting it towards the hennepin county right away and at rates that meet existing rate rate uh at existing rates so that we meet all the permitting conditions uh no what if what you said surprised me um and and no we haven't engaged hennepin county anymore because we're still continuing to work out what our plan is south of there right away and it doesn't engage them at this point okay well uh south of there right away you're getting in the private property you don't have the city property that you know that you should be focusing on glenn road and the city right away on glenn road uh you know you're wasting a lot of uh work by bolton and menke crews they were out there uh in the back of these uh uh homeowners homes uh uh you know it uh it just seems to me that uh a lot of money is being spent uh for it uh it's a i guess a uh i don't know what the driving factor is here but once again you know here we are uh two years into this project practically because back in uh the whole first open house back in the december of 2018 you're no further along and what the question was asked back then where's the water going two years later i guess by your own admission we don't know where the water is going uh it's kind of like we're hoping a prayer that uh something's going to materialize out of something i mean it's it's almost to the point now uh is it not even feasible to do that i mean i have you given up i just haven't given up but i still have several options um you know you know uh two years ago when they presented the feasibility they did present a viable option and that received significant feedback and resistance and so now we're exploring other options exploring other options for drain water takes time and effort and a little bit of uh engineering and surveying to figure that out so uh had had the city proceeded with the original project of a storm pod in wedgwood forest we probably would have been further along on this but because um the stormwater is as challenging as it is and we're trying to address the concerns of the residents that we're hearing it does take a little bit more time and effort okay so what's the big secrecy here why can't you just disclose uh and uh tell the uh the homeowners in this project what what you're thinking what where what what are your options i mean you just mentioned the options uh please tell us i'd like to know i've mentioned it several times through this presentation already underground vault within city right away smaller infiltration basins peppered throughout the development and and some other options in storm water ponding and uh all three of those you just mentioned that uh uh because the uh hydraulic analysis has not come back yet we don't know what the numbers are for this project uh they could be all all mute i mean what's what's the point of uh you know trying to bang your head against the wall trying to make a yes a square block fitting around the whole when the when the numbers haven't even come in yet for this project i mean once you agree that the prudent thing to do at this point is uh wait for the numbers to come in and then go from there i mean designing a project where the bare minimums which is the 4 000 cubic feet per minute just to meet the ms4 permit standards uh it just seems completely you know i think that the uh good cases would be you know i'm just at a loss right now that it's even gotten this far i mean and i think part of coming back with those numbers is the engineering process we have to go through anytime we change a proposed watershed or a pipe's going to go or where a pond is going to go it changes all the numbers and it's a variable that we have to continue to work through um that's just part of the engineering process well i understand the process but look at 5965 grant street where the city spent 388 thousand dollars to purchase the property another 120 000 the bulldozer and right now you have a 24 deep hole and a half an acre and guess what once the numbers came in it was it was too small so let me ask you this did you or bolton amenti sign off on that are you responsible for the 5965 grant street uh holding pot no i'm not and this is a neighborhood meeting for the glenn amelie manitou so let's just stick to that well but it's still it's the whole process of pawning and stormwater that's a big prob that's the big uh holding pond is a big piece of this puzzle that's missing right now and so i'm just trying to get some clarification here but okay uh i agree thank you rich i'd be happy to meet with you once i get it all figured out and walk you through it all right at this point i don't have all of the details because there's a lot of moving pieces um that we're trying to accommodate the residents concerns with okay well thank you mr butt welcome uh greg larson you have your hand up yeah just a quick question uh that just kind of came to mind and that is according to the state climatologist's office last year had a record rainfall in the twin cities of almost a foot of rain above what it normally is and this year it's as of today it's right at normal so when you're designing this thing what are you designing to are you designing to record rain 100 year flood are you designing what what what criteria are you using to handle the storm water here we we designed with the industry standard the atlas 14 rain data which was established in 2014 and uh so as part of that they establish the intensity of the rain that occurs in a 24-hour period for a 100-year storm event um well for really any storm event but we typically look at the 100-year storm event a 10-year storm event and a two-year storm event and another piece with that is is you are correct that there's been um probably higher than average rainfall events and so what we look at from an engineering perspective is we call we call that trying to be resilient so if you get some of these larger storm events and some of these issues or larger rain events what happens to your infrastructure and and what happens to some of the surrounding properties if you get some of those rain events that are designed over say a hundred year storm event and we not that it's typically always done but it is something we've been paying more close attention to is understanding what happens when we do get those larger rain events and oftentimes just making sure that you have emergency overflows to allow that water to go downstream but not impact residents or structures down or i should say not impact structures or or other significant items downstream all right okay okay thanks and just one thing you mentioned that you would meet with uh mr yang to talk about this once it's complete i'm going to ask again that this needs to be done in a formal fashion with the community not just with one or two people and i know that you don't have that but i'm asking i think that there is some elected officials on here and i'm asking them to make sure that whatever comes up is the final plan here before that happens that you've consulted with and talked to and had other me at another meeting equivalent to this if that's what's appropriate um on the the storm water issues here so that's all i have thanks a lot uh elizabeth van has her hand up again thank you going back to the question when you were saying on particularly sorry elizabeth van 24 710 emily road uh when you were saying the cul-de-sac on the north side where i live won't be bigger than the footprint that's already there i'm looking at i'll correct you to correct you right there we are proposing to make it bigger we're we're enlarging it to the south but not to the north yes so staying within the footprint of the north side yes okay um i don't understand the map that's already online um the city of shorewood glen road magnitude and emily road project map because it has a picture of the road and then it talks so it's got um lines that deviate even further to say curb and gutter so from the road and i'm looking at the curb and gutter and that's definitely going a bigger footprint than what currently is out there when you think when you say the road on the north side will stay where it's at does that include the curb and gutter yes and then um why then on your map that it takes out more if you look at your map that is online right now where it's curb and gutter and it says those that line is curb and gutter um i'm wondering why then is it taking out more is that the feasibility study map that you're looking at um this was let's see um addition um update additional meeting added due to residence feedback um yeah um because that drawing is a little just a little bit more just schematic it's not the actual true engineered drawing uh it's it's kind of put together for illustrative purposes and that's not the information that we share with the permitting agencies or or put in the final plans we refine it uh much more than that when do the residents get to see that map the map that you're now talking about because you're saying that the input the imprint of the cul de sac curb and gutter will not be any bigger than what's currently there on the north side but yet i see a map that says it is and you say well that's just a drawing um the slides that were shown today quick glance i only saw a quick glance and it talked about driveway impact on there and from that quick glance it looked like there was going to be a bigger footprint so i'm wondering when do we get to see residents get to see the map that you say is not going to be a bigger footprint on the north side of amli road cul-de-sac area i would be happy to meet with residents on an individual basis to to walk through the impacts on their property so if you want to reach out to me either my phone number or the email address that was provided at the end of the presentation i'm happy to come meet with you and talk about those specifics to each to your individual property can we also see the map though i mean yes uh you know we're at sixty percent we design here we we probably have drawings that we can i can bring with that start showing you where that curb line is going to be placed and as we get closer to construction if people wanted in critical areas like that we can we can potentially stake that ahead of time too for people to view similar to how we may have to do with some of the right-of-way and easements thank you all right any other questions out there andrew there was one on the chat here that said uh where is the actual maps for residents to see not on an individual basis should be available to all residents uh i would say either going back to the uh the video or i can put the powerpoint that was used um to create that video online as well and then that will that will show kind of those individual maps on a on a individual sheet basis okay so we will be posting the videos and the powerpoint probably tomorrow but after after the meeting uh tonight yes i can do that uh i'm just reading through some of the questions here one just popped up for what is the rationale for making the glenn road cul-de-sac bigger than the hamley lane one the glen road cul-de-sac is bigger because that's being built to the current city standard and we've already acquired the right-of-way for that the amli road cul-de-sac was originally built a little bit smaller and just doesn't have the available right away available and has the potential conflict with the cultural resources so being sensitive to that we are strategically building it smaller in that area to avoid some of the cultural resources i just see one more comment that popped up here that was what is the impotence of this project when so many residents are against it i'm not sure who provided that comment but as i meet with residents out there [Music] i would say there are a number of residents against it against it and there are quite a few residents that are also in favor of it okay if there are no further questions from anyone i am muted rich oh okay uh andrew can you hear me yeah uh you said uh you mentioned just a while back talking to me about some of the options and you mentioned rain garden now you know rain garden is just a cute word for a whole stormwater municipal holding pond i mean you're still going to have all the pollutants in that i mean you've got all the uh toxins coming off the road all the heavy metals i mean reindeer is just a cute word for holding ponds so let me ask you this what resident wants to and has approached the city that says hey please give me a rain garden in my backyard i mean i i can't myself speaking i don't want a a municipal rain guarded in my backyard do you really believe that you can convince a resident on this project in glen emily and matthew to put in a a municipal holding pond on their property i mean you can call it a rain garden and that's a really nice cute word but it's still a municipal holding pond you know it's still going to be requiring maintenance i mean we get back to this you know where's the water going once again and honestly do you really believe that you can find a resident in this project that is going to allow the city to put a on their property a municipal holding pond you can call it a acute rain garden you can call it a uh a koi fish pond do you really believe that do you really believe that the city uh is going to find a resident that is willingly uh not under enemy domain gonna allow the city to put on their property uh a public nuisance i mean that's what it is i mean everybody uh any municipality uh it's it's well known and documented by urban planners that you know when you put in a municipal holding pond it becomes a public nuisance from the pollution standards to all the attractions of uh unwanted uh pests uh mosquito breathing you know stagnant water it's it's a public nuisance do you honestly really believe that you are going to find a resident that willing is going to allow you to put in a public nuisance on their property yes i am optimistic i can do that okay well i i i wish you the best of luck thank you any other final questions otherwise if you're if you want tune back in at seven all o'clock thank you everyone feel free to reach out to me if you do have any follow-up questions either at my city email address or my uh city phone number which i'll give to you here one more time nine six 952-9600 seven nine one zero thank you