welcome to the February 24th 2025 meeting of the Wisa Planning Commission I hereby call the meeting to order my name is Blake Cameron and I the chair of the Planning Commission I have just a few words to say about how to participate in this evening's meeting members of the public May attend this Planning Commission meeting in person or watch and listen remotely by viewing the meeting on Channel 8 WCTV and on the city's website at www.a.org WCTV public comment during the public forum Andor public he in portions of the meeting may be provided in person at the meeting in advance or by logging on to the zoom call and raising your hand during the public hearing when you hear your name called in the meeting you will be seen and heard in our council chambers and on the cable channel you'll be asked to unmute and then you may begin your comment all public comments May must include your first name full name sorry and address and I'm sorry I'm going to skip back up to the top because I've skipped the part about the zoom meeting um for those for those who would like to join the meeting on Zoom the meeting ID is 26225 41647 and the pass code is [Laughter] displayed um the city encourages comments and questions about items on the agenda and when possible request you submit them in advance by emailing public comment ata.org calling City staff at 952445 323 or mailing wetta City Hall at 600 R Street East wisett Minnesota 55391 attention public comment thank you next on the agenda is approval of tonight's meeting agenda does anyone have any questions or proposed changes to the agenda chair uh let's take roll take roll I missed roll I'm sorry planner quarrels can you please take roll happy to uh commissioner Ankeny here commissioner swabby here chair Cameron here commissioner C here commissioner El here and commissioner van Loy here and please note that commissioner planton has an excused AB absence tonight thank you sorry about that got that out of order um next let's roll the agenda um does anybody have any um changes or additions or questions about the agenda this evening no no if not may I have a motion to approve the agenda as presented so moved Severson second schelby thank you further discussion all those in favor say I I any opposed the eyes have it the motion passes and the agenda is approved next on our agenda tonight is the approval of the consent agenda and this evening's consent agenda consists of the approval of the meeting and workshop minutes from February 10th 2025 does any commissioner have any questions or comments comments on any item in the consent agenda no no cool may I have a motion to approve the consent agenda as appar as presented so moved vanl thank you thank you further discussion those all those in favor say I I I any opposed the eyes haveit the motion passes and the consent agenda is approved um next on the agenda is the public hearing items um this evening we have one public hearing item which is the pr preliminary plat for 565 Ferell West or the Ferndale Bluff subdivision planner quars could you please walk us through the application absolutely chair right so tonight we're going to be talking about a subdivision application called Ferndale Bluff it's located at 565 fale Road West and is currently owned by the Capen family the project is located on the north side of Ferndale Road West adjacent to py pond it's zoned r1a and it's guided in our comprehensive plan as estate single family it's also within the Shoreland overlay District in our zoning code the property uh is surrounded by a couple of different land uses on Hillside Drive and off of Ferndale woods and bovie Road are all r1a residences as I mentioned PV Pond is to the east there and then on the south side of fale road West is R1 single family residences and those going are going to be a smaller standard lot size than r1a then of course Lake minona this is a street view from a Greener time of year but shows you looking North from the driveway and then if you're standing on frontale road looking North uh when looking at existing conditions that uh Gray Line that comes up through the property is the existing driveway that yellow line that goes around is an existing gravel driveway PV Pond is to the east there's quite a bit of wetland on the property depicted in green and then there are some existing structures on the property there's an existing house an orange just to the north of that is a detached garage and then off of that gravel driveway is a guest house when looking at existing conditions on this property there's a lot going on PV Pond has a lot of elements surrounding it like steep slopes Bluffs and wetlands each one of those elements has buildability restrictions under the subdivision and Shoreland code which we'll talk about uh in the rest of this application and each of those elements has a strict definition so so there's um a lot of really great graphics within this application breaking down exactly where those elements are within the application it's a very densely wooded lot uh over 700 significant trees surveyed on the lot although a significant portion of those are dead diseased or dying or ash trees which our Forester excludes from our calculations due to Emerald Ash Borer uh you can see that they're concentrated uh really all over the lot but a few gaps where the existing house is on some of the Bluffs and then where those Drive are as well this application has been in front of the Planning Commission and the city council before in 2023 uh the project went through an environmental assessment worksheet process and this was triggered by the city after the project was initially submitted in 2022 at that time the project had more Lots associated with it and each of those lots were going to have docks on PV Pond the number of docks was what triggered the environmental assessment worksheet process and so uh that process allowed us to do quite a bit of extra information gathering about the project so through that um the applicant did a cultural resources assessment to see if there were any artifacts on the site they did some evaluations around bald eagle habitat and uh some more information about Wetlands the outcome of that worksheet was that no further environmental study is needed and that the city and other Regulators existing permitting processes would be enough to mitigate um environmental uh issues that would come up with the site so similar to any other Redevelopment site that was approved at a city council meeting so that's been the only time that they've looked at the project so far now in 2024 or sorry that was last year in 2024 the applicant uh took a shot at applying for four Lots on the site all of those lots were riparian meaning they had access to PV Pond and they also asked for a variance for increased culdesac length so that road went further up into the property than it's proposed to go today the outcome of that discussion was that the Planning Commission recommended denial and the applicant withdrew before a city council meeting today the development application looks a little different the application is to divide the existing lot into three riparian lots that also have access to previe Pond and to create a new Public culd Act to serve those homes and the only request that we're considering is a preliminary plat for those three r1a lots so to look at zoning first uh looking at R r1a zoning they are compliant in terms of lot width lot depth and that 880,000 foot lot size minimum in the r1a district the public street is what allows those widths to be met because that's measured based on Frontage on a public road and then looking at the comprehensive plan density the estate single family District that I mentioned earlier asks for a quarter to a half unit per acre and the overall development density when you take that almost 12 acres and divide it by three is26 units per ACR so right in there also under r1a we regulate lot coverage which is the the amount of a lot that buildings take up and impervious surface which is all hard cover those large lots and really limited buildable areas do a lot to help create compliant totals it's really difficult to get up to that 10% lot coverage Max and that 20% impervious surface Max uh so those are I mentioned um those buildable barriers are also restricted by uh things like driveway slopes garage floor elevations that and that's particularly relevant for lot one so I've got those areas outlined in green CU they're not imp imped by all that stuff we mentioned earlier but those actual buildable areas in some cases are even a little bit smaller side lot lines I just want to mention in particular because it was a discussion point the first time around the ordinance requires side lot lines to be at right angles to Street lines and Radial to the lake shore uh in this case because there are only two lot lines per lot with the exception of the out lots that meets both standards now that's in contrast to that previous proposal where there were a couple more lot lines per lot uh this is a pretty complex part of the application so one of our um Provisions within the subdivision code is that we try not to approve or rather we can't approve subdivisions where a later variance is needed so you can't approve conditions that would force someone to come back to Planning Commission and City Council in the future uh this is the main place where this might come up because of the way that our Shoreland setback rules are created so whenever you're redeveloping along the lake uh you're uh your new home has to be either 75 ft from the lake shore or behind a line drawn between the two closest riparian structures on the lake so this is a little bit easier when you've got um a less aggressive curve to the lake shore and all the houses are fairly close to the lake it does get a little bit more complicated for this one so the applicant has run through all of the order in which the houses could be built including whether or not the current house gets torn down because it sits on lot two today and the only scenario in which a setback variance would be needed is if uh Lots lot one builds first and um that existing house is torn down and the applicant is committed to putting a covenant um within their development agreement to address that scenario so uh to review those Bluffs and steep slopes I mentioned earlier those are in red and they also include uh Bluff impact zones and Bluff setbacks so quite a bit of restriction even outside that actual Bluff so just wanted to note that those proposed building pads and driveways are in areas compliant with those Bluffs uh protected areas uh is a discussion point that should certainly be mentioned um reading straight from our code uh we deem environmentally sensitive Land by talking about Wetlands drainageways water courses floodable areas or steep slopes because this area is so uh topographically challenging there's quite a few steep slopes um but the follow-up code provision talks about whether those areas are to be incorporated into Lots Within in the proposed subdivision and defines those as slopes over 18% and I note both of those because there are slopes over 18% that will be impacted but they'll be impacted by the grading associated with the public Street the way that the applicant has set up their current and I'll go back a second to show a good one the way that the applicant has set up their their lot their building pads and their driveways has no impact on slopes over 18% on those private Lots so that's compliant with that particular provision even though the street itself will impact those 18% slopes for trees uh as a reminder a subdivision application in this case is just going to be for impacts related to the road construction future private owners of those new three lots are going to have to deal with their own tree preservation plans that are going to depend on exactly what kind of house they want to build and where exactly their driveway goes and that sort of thing for the road construction only it's removing about 122 significant trees but no Heritage trees that requires 577 in of replacement the applicant is proposing 1135 in and then the reasoning for uh suggesting fee and Li of planting for the rest of those inches is primarily because the existing lot is so wooded already that it doesn't make a lot of sense to plant new trees Under The Canopy where they aren't likely to to survive and do well within those buildable areas uh those demonstration building pads and drive will impact significant trees but appear to have a limited impact on Heritage trees and like I mentioned it's all going to depend on what plans that they come up with in the future for exact numbers uh the street is a very visible part of this it's 526 ft long to the middle of the cisac as I mentioned it provides sufficient Frontage for those three r1a lots there are storm water ponds for runoff on the North and South ends so one that's that you can see those uh contour lines come in really tight on lot one to the North and then there's also a pond directly on the south side and those are both to handle runoff from the street and that street meets the minimum subdivision standards for a local Street and so that's a pavement width of 26 feet and a RightWay width of 50 ft uh it can't get much narrower than that without being a private Street and a private street is a whole other approval process uh even then the fire code is going to really restrain how much narrower that street can get um there are also two outlots on the other side of the street and that's primarily so that the two the sorry the one retaining wall that stretches across those two outlots can be under private responsibility and control and the reason for that is that the city is fine with taking on responsibility for the public road but not for the retaining walls so those outlots are proposed to be tied to the lots that are across the street from them um in terms of future grading you know that road construction driveway storm water infrastructure homes accessory buildings walkways and stairs and to mention the height of those retaining walls in order to have this road sort of cut through the existing slope those will be pretty tall retaining walls s and 8 ft on either side so that the road can hit that 8% grade maximum the engineer has reviewed uh the submitted document and has no additional comments but they will certainly be quite involved in reviewing and approving those final plans when we look at final plat development agreement and building permitting and other permits associated with the road neighborhood notification was standard in the sun sailor and mailed to Property Owners uh as of 5:00 and I attend to get more as we go we've gotten about a dozen public comments most of them are wetta residents about half are in support of the project and about half of them are opposed to the project those who are opposed are generally concerned about environmental impacts impacts to PV Pond and the Western neighbor the size of the road potential tree impacts and just overall concerns around land disturbance and cut and fill amounts around Gra this is a reference slide I won't run through all these questions but as you look at this application uh these are all tied to the criteria that are directly within our subdivision code so things like consistency with the comp plan character uh performance standard and uh depreciation of property values and then um you know looking at that preservation of sensitive areas grading trees um and suitability so our next steps for the rest of the night is that now is a good time to ask clarifying questions of Staff whether that's based on the presentation or based on um based on the packet the applicant will then give their presentation the PC will then be able to ask questions of the applicant we'll have our public hearing where everyone who's here to speak we'll have the opportunity to and then after that the Planning Commission will deliberate and make their recommendation and speak with staff along the way if they'd like to happy to take any questions a question Mr WBY um I have a question for um I think our City attorney a little clarification on what our role is here are we looking at this strictly as a land use situation or are we more quasi judicial where we have more ability to look at other issues besides just the use of the land um commissioner schelby so the application is for approval or recommendation or I'm sorry the application is for approval of a preliminary plat and so you're looking at uh the proposed plat with all the criteria from the subdivision ordinance and at the end of the evening we'll ask you to make uh direct staff to prepare a draft report and recommendation with your findings and with your recommendation to approve or deny it now you can attach reasonable conditions to to that recommendation or or you can recommend conditions and staff might have a few of those recommendations for you um but in terms of does that address your question well it it's it's been brought up quite a few times in the correspondence and so I just wanted to make sure that I was understanding what our role would actually be here so I think you have answered it okay great thank you I have a question yes commissioner Ankeny so who is responsible for building the road uh great question commissioner Ankeny so the applicant uh would build the road and be responsible for the cost of building the road and then the city would be responsible for ongoing maintenance as a public Street I have a couple question commissioner Severson okay so as I understand I just wanted being sure I'm clear that um and if you go back to the um the slide that had the preliminary plats on it if you could go back to that slide with the like the little map uh 16 maybe or 15 so we aren't concerned right now about what they will build there right that we're only concerned about where the placement of the home possibly could be is that my understanding yes so the subdivision code asks for uh building pads to be approximately placed basically so we have an idea of what could be built there but the actual location and design is going to depend on uh future building permitting and then same with the the home that's existing there right like we don't know if that could be torn down or maintained yep the current owner or future owners could make that call at that time so what happens if we let's say recommend for approval goes to city council they approve it and then the lots are sold and they come back and want something completely different than what we've sort of preliminary agreed to what happens then uh from a clarifying perspective do you mean in terms of uh the homes themselves or the lot configuration the homes themselves or both yes if someone wanted to change the configuration of the Lots uh they'd likely need to come back here and ask again if someone wanted to uh change exactly where the house is within the buildable areas they can do that uh at the end of the day it's a subdivision that uh provides for lots that are zoned a certain way and if it meets setbacks and setbacks from sensitive areas and all those sorts of things as long as they operate within those restrictions they can they can move those homes around a bit they just need to continue to follow those zoning rules so what you said just the right before that of if they wanted to change anything but the lot lines we're still though approving or potentially could be approving that that get subdivided three ways so that decision sort of becomes then final and then they would have to come back later and get re-approval of how they organize on that lot is that I think that so um I just me mention the lot lines thing because um we're talking about the subdivision specifically but we're approving this subdivision with these lot lines exactly where they are okay that's being approved or that's being recommended for approval by this group city council would affirm that and that would be as is that's how it would stay unless they you know wanted to Res subdivide it for some reason in the future in terms of where the houses can actually go as long as it's compliant with zoning it just goes through building permitting they don't need to come back for home design or home placement and than unav variant okay thank you I have a question M commissioner Al are there just two outlots associated with the retaining wall or are there or are all three uh there's just two there's just two outlets out lots and they split ownership of that retaining wall on the West Side uh I will also note that there's a retaining wall um on the east side as well but that's you know on the same Lots as the houses okay and we have uh on those outlots retaining W Heights of 7 to 8 feet yes so the one west of the public road on the Outlaws is 8T tall and the one east of the public road goes up to 7 feet tall do we know at this time how they'll be constructed or is that uh I know that um engineering for I think retaining walls over 4T requires an engineered retaining wall and that's about all the information that I know can you give us a little more clarification what would that feel like driving driving up that driveway and saying that the so the retaining wall will be just to your right if you're driving into the development and it would be 7 ft tall yes so when you uh are heading up that are heading up that driveway to the north uh first on your left side you'd start to see a retaining wall come up uh as the road is essentially cuts through that existing Hill the existing Hill is Illustrated really well on this slide so that curving line uh that goes up and down a little bit is that existing grade and then that smoother line that cuts through it is the proposed grade for the road so as you go through as the land on either side Rises and Falls that's where those retaining walls would be actually wish I had a better picture of that in my mind I'll think about it I will note that those are going to be um a little bit further out from the actual pavement so it's not just going to be like you're on pavement and then immediately there's retaining walls those are spaced out a little bit further from the actual pav can you say out a little bit further do you mean 3 feet 5T uh well they're about they're they're out of that required right of way which is 50 ft because we wanted them on private property so okay it's going to be about 15 about 15 ft on either side 10 15 ft so is the retaining wall going up from the road or is it down down below the road the road is low the retaining walls go up goes up okay thank you cuz right now that driveway is just go on the hill and then there's like a drop off on the left yep and just handles that sort of steep hill as is okay okay thank you I have a couple questions for you guys um can you go back to slide 16 real quick um or yeah so are the green areas on the far the far right there um the green areas is that the buildable area based on code roughly yes roughly yeah I mean yeah okay that's I was just and and then the blue is the blue boxes if you will is what's kind of just been put out there as this is where they would put the house but they can put the house basically anywhere inside that build buildable area yeah that's what we were calling demonstration building pads um so the ones on lot I don't see the ones on lot three potentially moving around too much just because that buildable area gets pretty narrow cuz it's kind of on that um in that narrow area there two I don't see moving around a whole lot because that driveway can't get much steeper than 10% and so they've got to curve around in order to meet that maximum grade and then lot one seems like it has a a bigger buildable area but our um our code states that um garage floors need to be I think a foot higher than Street grade in general so if you go much further back that's actually actually it starts dropping off and that's difficult to do so the location of that is is kind of nestled in there okay oh I'm sorry go ahead sure okay um quick then quick question on the 8% grade um do you know like just trying to like wrap my head around how steep 8% is how steep is Broadway back behind us do you know oh God I hope steeper I'd have to double I don't know off the top of my head I could I could try to look that up and and just I was just kind of curious right I mean that's a steep grade right for you know just for a driveway and then having walls on both sides but yeah I mean I think that's you're trying to make the best of what you've got to make it work so at the end of the day we have a maximum and I think it's just depend on it just depends on the Practical design for a road okay so cool commissioner swabby um I don't remember what the slide name was but it showed the three houses and then a line drawn from 1 to three a line drawn from 1 to two mhm um and I know that we had talked last time about the consequences to a lot if say in this case one and three got built first does that does that have a negative impact on where number two can build yes and that's why uh the applicant has noted that they'll provide a covenant included in their development agreement in order to make sure that that scenario doesn't happen because that would be be one of those scenarios that forces a variance and we need to avoid that because we don't want to have to force a variance no we don't and that lot two scenario would also involve uh that in that original house being demolished as well okay thank you cool anyone else I I have one more question if you um the pond that's going to be created uh right next to Ferndale I'm just wondering from a visual standpoint from Ferndale is that going to be uh significantly different than The View today so basically you're going to be looking into that pond or is it far far enough back that it's not actually going to be uh visually noticed from from Ferndale uh I think it would depend on what kind of screening the applicant may or may not uh place at that point um it seems like there's kind of maybe an existing hedge but I can see that that could be impacted you know any trees that are in the location of that pond would would no longer be there so it probably would be a visual difference from from fale Road okay thank you cool all right thank you staff sorry uh it looked like 122 trees removed uh I don't know what slide listed that and a previous slide listed how many approximate dead or dying or disease trees there so when they say removing 122 do you delineate there's 50 dead ones yes reason my understanding is that that 122 ex excludes that dead diseased or dying uh because the way that we uh uh calculate how many replacement inches are needed exclus dead disease or dying but I'd have to double check the packet to figure out whether those are included or not all right thank you staff appreciate it um at this time I'd like to invite the applicant to come forward and address the commission please state your name and address for the record and if you're an adviser please State Your Role um on the applicant's team um given the amount that we need to cover if you could keep it as close to 10 minutes as possible that'd be great we're not going to be we did it's complicated so we did talk with uh Val and Emily and uh they said they'd give us a little extra time but actually they covered some of our slides so I'll just try and Breeze through those thank you good evening chair Cameron members of the Planning Commission and staff my name is Mike Stedman and my address is 401 Lake Street East in wetta I am with compass real estate and have specialized in new construction and Land Development for over 30 years I've been in several projects in the lake minaka area such as Locust Hills Island Oaks Shoreland Estates and Willow Bay Sanctuary I am working with Meredith how with Co Banker she is of course a longtime resident of Ferndale an exceptional upper bracket real estate professional and a and highly involved wi Isetta resident we have been working with the Capen family as partners and advisers for several years on this project we are grateful for the time and attention the city staff and the many neighbors who have stepped up and support of the project we would also like to thank you the planning Commissioners for your time and dedication to the community this is important work and we appreciate your service before we begin and I turn it over to Samantha for her short presentation we would like to highlight some themes that you will see in her presentation that are important this project is a culmination of careful Planning by the family who have been residents in Yetta for over 60 years working with an exceptional group of Consultants land planners Engineers environmental experts and designers and working closely with City staff for over five years you have before you an exceptional variance free subdivision proposal for three doots on 12 acres that is compliant with city code and Zoning that have been scaled down well below what would otherwise be permitted by City Zoning and City requirements it is attractive environment environmentally sensitive and thoughtful in design we are particularly excited to think that we could bring three young families to the Ferndale area a neighborhood that used to be a vibrant yearround family neighbor neighborhood but now tends to hold large seasonal homes empty for most of the Year this sort of reasonable growth adds energy and Longevity to the community I know that the family and our team are very proud of our proposal which Beyond being compliant is variance free very low density completely consistent with the established family neighborhood character designed to be environment ment Ally responsive and sensitive with that I'd like to introduce Samantha Mal thanks hi I'm Samantha Capen maldon and um I'm the owner at 565 Ferndale Road West in wetta Minnesota 55356 um my home address is 1801 West Farm Road Long Lake Minnesota 55356 no I'm sorry this is 55391 I'm 55356 sorry um and I'm not going to uh just before I start I want to Echo Mike's sentiments and saying thank you so much for your service to the community it's very much appreciated I know it's a hard job and I very much appreciate it I appreciate the city staff who've been very patient with us uh for the past several years if we've worked on this project and then also my team who for the past five years has been really amazing and a wonderful um expertise bringing to this project I am not going to dive deep into the Weeds on this because um as you know we submitted a almost 400 page application that's very very detailed and I assume you've seen most of it um what I'm going to do is just give you a broad overview of the project I'll buzz through some of the slides that the city's already covered dive into a few issues and um it's it's a short presentation and there'll be time for questions afterwards see sorry I I don't know how the clicker works so let me I can advance the slides if you just want to let me know one too click the whole the whole project starts with my family and my parents and specific uh who bought the property in 1964 um they raised their family on Ferndale they're currently retired and uh the three their three daughters own the property and we are the ones seeking the subdivision click um just a quick introduction I know there was detailed bios in the application there are three of us uh I'll start with my sister Heather she is a former licensed landscape architect who lives in Northern California with her husband who has a landscape Architecture Firm and her three young boys my sister Allison lives in Seattle with her husband Mark and my niece Camille and Allison is a licensed architect but she's also a nationally known environmental and sustainability of consultant of over 20 years she's a former lead reviewer and she's speaks around the country on environmental and sustainability issues um I am not nationally known at anything uh but I am a local community volunteer um I'm a conservationist uh I'm the vice chair of Long Lake Waters Association which is a watershed um conservation group I am uh a former conservation chair of the lake minetonka Garden Club where I was honored to speak on behalf of native plants in the environment both locally and in Washington DC I'm a former board chair of the Minnesota Zoo Foundation board where I spearheaded our strategic plan which was to connect people and nature in order to save Wildlife I live here in Oro with my husband Paul and my children Angus and Lydia click um I we've been lucky to have the support of an expert team I'm not going to go into too much detail I know this is a bit um of an eye strain to read um I do have several of the people here on the chart I've got Brad shy uh who has been the lead envir environmental planner and city planner on the project he has expertise in Shoreland Bluffs and trees I have Mark gronberg who's been the lead surveyor and engineer civil engineer on the project um he uh has um 40 years of experience including extensive storm water management expertise um I think the only thing on this chart you need to see that I would point out is the Decades of experience that everyone brings to this project and decades local experience we've used people who are familiar with this area and who understand the rules and regulations and um I I'm so proud of the work that they've done click just an overview of where the Project's located Visa uh downtown wi Zetta um it's on PB Pond the Green Arrow points to it you can see that um from the comp plan uh figure 36 2040 um it's guided for development in this time period 2020 to 230 click I love this picture this is just a bird's eye view of the neighborhood taken a few years ago and what I love about it is it just speaks to the evolution that is Ferndale um you can see that there are houses being constructed there along the road both of those houses have now been finished um two other houses have been taken down to provide Lawns for the people who live in the houses next door to them and two other houses are being built up in the Ferndale Woods Road at the top over pey pond so it just speaks to the Evolution that is Ferndale and the change that is inevitable and we are here to propose a small change that's part of the fabric of the neighborhood next so what we're proposing is three conforming Lots on almost 12 acres currently there are two houses on the property this would be three lots and three residences um this is approximately half of the allowed density under the code the road is 526 ft long 26 ft wide no Varian is needed for the road it is des designed to the minimum standards that the city has in terms of as small as it could be and it lays over mostly the existing paveed driveway and I think one of the things I just want to note because it's very important we are not putting in the housing pads we are not putting in the driveways we are not putting any docks we are putting in the road and the utilities that go up the road but people will have be able to choose where they site their houses based on where they you know what they want to do but they will have to abide by the regulations in the city of wetta the setbacks the height reg all of it so it this isn't that they can willy-nilly build anywhere on the Lots they have very strict buildable areas and they need to stay within them when they put their houses in Click Click so again another uh chart with a lot of information on it and I'm not going to spend too much time on this this just gives you an overview of when we started in 2019 and when when we ended on 2025 internal development happened for those first few years where we hired several survey firms we did Wetland delineations we assembled the team and we met with neighbors uh starting in January of 2019 we have several years uh doing that internal work and that it was also covid we went to the city in 2022 and have been working with them for the past several years um coming up with different iterations on the plan which I'll dive into on the next slide we've done cultural reviews bat surveys meeting with the lmcd we did detailed eaw cultural reviews revised the plan the guidelines for trees were revised the guidelines for Bluffs were revised it's been a lot of work but we're in thus the 380 pages in the application but that all brings us to where we are today in 2025 with a three lot Plan Three riparian lots and a 526 Foot Road click and this just points out I think it's important to know that we have been meeting with the neighbors both one-on-one and in groups since we started in January 2019 up until the last neighborhood meeting that we held um February 12th of 2025 every year there have been multiple meetings discussions and touch points with the neighbors click so this slide here um is really the evolution of the primary plans there were lots of other iterations in there but these are the important ones I think to sort of understand where we are and how we got to where we are today we started in 2022 when we went to the city with a four riparian lot plan and a 600t road that would not have required a variance um we also uh we worked on a lot of different iterations in that time we ended up netting out at a four riparian lot plan with a 725 Foot Road that would have required a variance for length and we took that to the Planning Commission in May of 2024 and uh that was as you know recommended for denial um there were three main concerns coming out of that meeting first The Irregular lot lines there were a fair number of them second there was the concerned that a future homeowner may possibly need to get a variance due to the Shoreland setback regulations and third there were concerns about the impacts to steep slopes on the different Lots um there some of the driveways were crossing over 18% grade and also that we were not um communicating the mitigation strategies that we'd already brought to the table very um coherently when we went to the Planning Commission so after the Planning Commission meeting in may we took the feedback we got from the Planning Commission very seriously and we took it very much to heart and we went back and looked at the plan and thought about what we could do and really made a a lot of work to come up with a new plan that we brought to the staff in July and August of 2024 and that plan was a four lot plan but with three riparian lots um what that allowed us to do by making lot one which is the top lot non- riparian is it allowed us to simplify the lot lines it allows us to eliminate the Shoreland setback issue and it also gave us a little space to move around some of the building pads and driveways to get further away from that 18% grading we were very heartened when we took this to the staff and uh you know in a meeting they said this is a game Cher and this is exactly what we'd hope we'd see and we were very optimistic about the future we then decided rather than going to a full complete application which again is 400 pages and takes a lot of time that we would meet with the neighbors to get their reactions and feedback before we finalized our application so I embarked on uh just visiting with each of the neighbors who'd either been supportive or expressed concerned visiting with City Council Members visiting with other stakeholders to get feedback on this plan and we were gratified to see that most of the neighbors who were not as happy with our first plan were very pleased with this plan um and a lot of the neighbors were very supportive of it however there were still three potentially four neighbors who said that they would prefer to see fewer lots and a smaller road so we have approached this entire process trying to be good neighbors we live on Ferndale we understand how personal it is to everyone and so even though our four lot three riparian plan is code compliant and does not require a variance we went back to the drawings to see what could we do to try and address their concerns and what we came back with is the plan that you're looking at today which is a three riparian lot plan on a road that's 526 fet long um when we brought this to the staff in November of 2024 the feedback from the staff was recognition that these were significant concessions and we at this point know that we have gone above and beyond what the code requires to try and deliver a plan that we know we feel very proud of it um and we can go to the next slide this is not an insignificant minor change this is a major change going to where we are now we've reduced the number of residential lots on 12 acres to only three we've reduced the number of riparian lots on over 400t of Shoreline to only three we've reduced the proposed road to 26 we've rered the road onto the existing driveway in order to avoid as many trees as possible we've added a curve to the road to improve the Aesthetics when you see it from Ferndale we have reduced the scope both the length and the square footage of the retaining walls by half we have relocated the culdesac so that it's below the sight line of the western neighbor and we are improving the forest variety and health through replanting a native species sele ction we have minimized tree removals as much as possible to less than 16% of the trees the road adjustments alone saved 44 incremental trees we have eliminated every Heritage tree removal and when you look at our um potential building plans pads for illustrative purposes and the driveways they also avoid all Heritage trees we are regrading the road from its current 15% slope which is well above what the code allows today to meet the 8% standard and current code to improve the safety of the access to the property we have eliminated all lot and driveway grading on steep slopes which is that is over 18% and we have minimized the 18% grading to be solely on the proposed road which is allowable under code um and that is less than 1.5% of the total property area so click um I'm not going to spend time on this unless people have questions about this later because I feel like Val covered it click um the project was designed and I think it's important to know we designed it to be in harmony with the environment wi Isetta did the eaw um environmental assessment worksheet in uh spring of 2023 that worksheet found that there were no environmental issues that prohibit development on this slot the subdivision will not negatively impact PB Lake the wetlands or the Watershed the visual impacts of the project will be insignificant because of where the houses and the road is located away from the pond away from the lake and deep in the woods the arant is not significant in terms of biodiversity and I think the the headline really or the conclusion that the environmental impacts can and should be adequately managed by the cities The Watershed and the state existing permitting process and I put the little slide from last year's uh PowerPoint presentation at the top where that's in there click in summary we are very proud of what we're bringing to you today we feel like this project is responsive to the habitat and the environment it's responsive to the city staff's input and their feedback and the council input it is very responsive to the extensive neighbor feedback that we have received it's consistent with the wetta city code with the zoning all city and state and DNR regulations and the 2014 comp plan it's also consisting with the existing neighborhood in terms of character size and scale per the code this is a good project for the community we feel like it's attractive vital and relevant it's low density and it has a thoughtful use of the land it will create a healthier forest and a safer Road it has the potential to bring new Young year-round families into a neighborhood that we remember being packed with kids when we were little it's variance free and it's consistent with wetta what wetta says they want for the future of wetta as far as is outlined in the comp plan so I'm going to ask my um Pat actually said he wanted to say something about uh click oh actually no I'm sorry we're really proud of this project and this is our home in our neighborhood we had a guiding Vision at the outset of this project and we feel that this project fulfills that Vision it is responsive it is consistent and it allows us to realize the value in our home it's three lots in almost 12 acres and I think um somebody said this is a really complicated project I disagree I don't think it's complicated I think it's detailed I think it's thoughtful but I think it's very simple it's three compliant Lots on 12 acres and there is no need for a variance however there may be questions and I'm here to answer those questions but I I feel like this is a very clear proposal and Pat did have something to say so um and I have brought um one thing I should say I've brought consultants if you have detailed questions because I am not an engineer for a land planner uh Mr chairman members of the commission my name is Pat steinhoff I'm the attorney for the applicant and I'm going to talk for less than two minutes about approval standards um the city has approval standards and its zoning ordinance and its subdivision ordinance um and this is a application for plat approval and the law on Plat approval applications which are a type of Quasi judicial uh decision as if the if the applicant meets all of the requirements and designed criteria that are set forth in the zoning ordinance and the subdivision ordinance then the the city has to approve it it doesn't have any discretion to to deviate from the standards that are in the code um if there is a conforming application so here we have an applicant that has spent a very very long time and worked very very hard uh to present to you a fully conforming uh three lot subdivision application um they've worked very hard to make sure that it complies and conforms to all of the design criteria all of the approval criteria in the city's ordinances um so the city can't deny it just because uh you know somebody would prefer two lots instead of three lots or would prefer less riparian Lots versus the three that are there or because uh uh somebody doesn't like the width of the road which is dictated by by code so uh in summary this is a fully conforming application the city doesn't have the discretion to deny it so I ask that you uh recommend approval thank you click click um so I'm here for any questions that you might have I'm G take a little drink of water thank you Samantha um Commissioners are there any questions for the applicant or followup questions for staff I have a question yes uh hello how long do you anticipate uh the grading and the trucks in and the trucks out in order to get the road and to get this the lot side sides ready do you anticipate they're taking a long time and being a I know that the neighbors this is a concern for them right um I'm going to ask uh David lisy um who is a contractor and who can speak to that much better than I can I would be good evening David lium uh from St Michael and I vice president Rachel contract ing we're based out St Michael we do a lot of different development developments and construction projects so to the best of my ability it's somewhere six to8 weeks total from start till finish a lot of that is erosion control preparation to make sure that U no sediment or soils leave the site got two to three Works weeks worth of grading you need utility installation for another two weeks and then that's when the pavement and retaining walls would happen so maybe a month month worst case would be two months okay thank you y Samantha I have a question for you um I know you said there one of you were going to Covenant um the development order um did you have any other covenants that you were going to include in um for any of the Lots there is I I don't know if this is a covenant that might be a legal term but tying the two out lots to the two lots across the street I'm not sure if that's a covenant or if that's just a legal that's it okay um I'm G to go a little bit off script here okay I I I really I I like what you had to say about your conservation credentials and I think my one challenge to you would be to include in your um in your Lots should it get approved right um prohibiting the removal of any of the Heritage trees on the property subsequent to purchase I I don't think we can do that but I do know that there are not um well first of all I should say talking about the tree removals there the Forester at wetta thinks that we can in fact save an additional 30 trees but we just have to assume that they're impacted until we get in there but we're so that would also be helpful I I don't I don't know if I can put that sort of Covenant on there and I don't I don't know that I can that that you know our that's beyond our purview as the Planning Commission as well right it was but I think that it seems to to be one of the items that gets people um excited right um and there's a I was out there on Saturday and there's a ton of trees on the property yeah I know um super cool right like um you know and a lot of the Heritage trees just so you know are in the Bluffs and in the steep slopes leading down to the lake that are not part of the buildable area there are some Heritage trees on lot one that are behind where the house would be placed but again the house if you were to place a house back there it would get quite narrow so so I don't anticipate someone wanting to build a long skinny house when they have a wider open space um lot two has a wide open yard next to the house we have a very large backyard that we grew up in um and if the house on lot two is torn down that is where we place the pad and where anyone would naturally place a house because it looks down on the lake um and so that we're not worried about that and lot one the buildable area is so small um that I I don't think I could put that restriction on there it might make that lot buildable Fair no and I and again right like to reiterate right that's outside of outside of what we're here to talk about today right so I'm a huge tree hugger I get I get it thank you anyone else cool um all right thank you um Samantha thank you um Pat and thank you uh I didn't me your name down David all of you fre if you have any other questions after the neighborhood comment and everybody here will stay um who are much more expert at answering them than I am so cool thank you for your time and your presentation yep um I would now like to turn to the public hearing part um and I see we have some members of the public so thank you for showing up today and um it's great to see you and and welcome your input so um before I begin I just a couple of quick comments um the public hearing is time for us to listen to members of our community um about the requests we are considering um it is an important part of the process that allows the members of the public to participate and add their perspective as we consider these requests any questions asked during the public hearing will be held until the end of the hearing um and may be addressed as staff at that point with that said um I now opened the public hearing of the fermale bluff subdivision if you wish to speak please come forward to the podium um or raise your hand if on zoom and state your name and address for the record and let us know if you are connected to the applicant in any way or representing anybody else thank you commissioner um Mr chair appreciate your opport the opportunity to address um the public hearing uh my name is Don Birdsong penny and I own the property at 621 and 623 Ferndale we have the Western property line with 565 so we share the property line we were here the last time when the proposal came through um I'd like to well first of all I guess I'd like to say maybe I don't want to take your time since counselors already told you you don't have any choice but to accept this so maybe I shouldn't take your time um I believe you should deny this request on one simple reason and and it's it's it's really basic I think this is a really simple decision should one applicant create a hazard for another applicant we believe the construction of the road so close to our property line creates a hazard for us and Valerie if you could pull up slide 16 i i in the information I gave you I highlighted one area in particular and I believe the applicant tonight said nothing really changed with the road that they moved it along the existing Drive I I believe if you and maybe I was wrong about that but if you go back and look at the existing drive and where the road is the new entrance from the last application now AB buts our property line at Ferndale Road The Collection Pond that you asked the question about we have a collection Pond that the city required so they put in a street drain it runs underneath and goes to a collection pond it's not a pond it's a a dry piece of ground that only fills up when we really get a lot of rain or spring runoff other than that it's just basically a low spot in the in the ground but if you look at that road the road runs right along our property line the retaining wall That's 7 to 8 feet high is within sometimes 10 to 15 feet of our property line but if you take a look at and you can barely see it right at the beginning of the culdesac you it's it's in distinguishable where the property line is there it's it's about an 8ft elevation I sent a couple of pictures along in our presentation it raises 8 ft from our driveway up to that area the drive from house from lot two when snow's going to be pushed down because it's going to be pushed down the driveway it's going to be pushed down on the road and across the road and potentially down excuse me and down onto our driveway so we we think that Lo particular location creates a hazard uh but nothing has really changed from the first application to this application with respect to the location of the road it was proposed initially to have 3,900 cubic feet of of cut taken away which I think is something like 750 truckloads in the initial application at 725 ft the applicant said this reduces tree loss and reduces cut moving the road back there for must increase tree loss and increase cut so the Cut's going to be larger tree loss is going to be larger um it it it like I said I think it's a simple issue and and let me say this to be fair to the applicant I don't believe they want the road there they have to have the road there we both share Ridge with a bluff to the East and a bluff to the West we have a marsh they have a lake when you bring that bluff line in then you put a 50-ft deep house and then you put the set back to the road the road must go where it goes or it doesn't work it just doesn't work so we're not saying you shouldn't approve it we're just saying we don't agree we think it creates a hazard for us we we just we just strongly disagree we believe you'll make the right decision we do believe you do have a right to make the decision regardless of what counselor might say um and we um we appreciate the opportunity to give you our perspective thank you thank you Don anyone else sen quars do we have anybody on the zoom call I do not have anyone who's indicated they'd like to speak on Zoom or on teams excellent uh well with that said then um if nobody else would like to speak um I'm going to close the public hearing and bring it back to the commission for discussion uh Commissioners do you have any questions for staff or the applicant at this point um or any questions raised during the public hearing that you'd like staff to address I have a question commissioner ston they're chitchatting so minute I was conferring with my colleague I'm sorry no please all good happy to answer you get to quiner too um okay so just so that I'm understanding this is just to subdivide these three right and then the applicant in theory then still owns three separate lots and then they get to do with them whatever they choose yes so they'll they'll subdivide the property and then my understanding is that they'll sell those lots to Future buyers yes and then those future buyers can do whatever they want with it so we could potentially see three variance requests coming back in at some point in the next two to three years is that fair if they wanted to do something that required a variance uh they could go through the process but uh you know part of the idea behind all of the information we ask for in the sub division process is to show that it's possible without variances so I would hope to not see them but they could ask for a variance like any other applicant or property owner okay thank you so so uh to um dig a little bit in ter in terms of the the question that was brought up during the public hearing um is there is there any uh city code in terms of of change of elevation close to a close to a lot line is there uh any anything to to look at there or is it uh permitted in terms of uh whatever you'd like to do as long as it uh uh um there there's nothing that would stop you from doing that change in elevation to that level we have uh regulations on the amount of grading that somebody can do on a property uh this particular application doesn't come up against this threshold it's an average of a two foot grade change over an entire property and because his property is so large it doesn't meet that but I think that the biggest thing regarding elevation changes close to another property is typically drainage uh we're most concerned with whether there's going to be water that runs off onto another property because of something that another property owner does and there's exhibits within the application showing how they handle their own drainage through grading and through those storm water ponds thank you can I commissioner could uh Valerie could you show us the slide with the retaining walls in Red so I'm trying to see where that okay okay so after the retaining walls it's back to um surface Road yes and there's still grading associated with that surface road but at a certain point it no longer requires a retaining wall it's it's a little hard to see but how close is that retaining wall actually to the property line is there an idea in terms of how um I can I'll double check within the packet or rather I might ask Eric to double check within the packet but I believe it comes within about 10 ft at its closest and that has to do with uh just the width of that outlot right there just because the the right of way doesn't come up and and touch the uh uh inator I I was just reviewing the plans and the red line on the west side on the farthest no North is the closest to the property line and that looks like approximately 8 ft from the retaining wall to the property line and then as you see as it goes south it goes farther away from right from the property that's just great and how tall is the retaining wall at that point at the narrowest point at the narrowest point it's it's essentially zero so the retaining wall kind of you know at each end matches the grade and then approximately in the middle you could see there's a um a line uh with an arrow uh that's a where out Lot B and out lot a and that's where it's 8 feet sorry I'm just pulling this up so I can use my curser so in the middle it's at its tallest and then at either end it gets shorter correct so there so there how far is it in from the lot line uh it's probably approximately 14 ft at that location so we can't really see there where the existing house or the existing road is or can you describe that the to the to the property the existing driveway are you referring to no according to this plan yep even the slide that's got those red lines on it where is the house to the west and the driveway to the West compared to that let me pull up the one of the satellite images looks like I same time if you look at page 47 of your packet you will see uh um that specific plan sheet on its own and you could zoom in there and look look a little bit but on that plan sheet on uh page 47 you do see the existing house um and that driveway to that existing house goes up and around is that right it comes in from from the west and then basically on the north side of the house they don't those two driveways will not come that close together those two driveways will not touch you know there there's as they show as shown on the plan there's there's very little Gap if any between the bird song driveway and the property line but there is 10 ft between the property line and the right of way and then there's approximately 12 ft between the RightWay and what will be the public road so in the neighborhood of 22 ft or so well are you saying that the bird song driveway comes right up to the property line that is what that plan is showing yeah that's that's kind of the call to sack at the end of their driveway they're right to the West the property line so they don't have any distance between their driveway and the end of their lot maybe a foot but very little I mean it's not displaying on this sheet thank you um City attorney shelz I had just a question um you about Hazard creation so one of the things um Mr birong um brought up was creation of Hazard on his property um could you um tell us a little bit about how that works and what happened like what is allowable not allowable and expand on that for us a little um chair well I can what I can say is that you know this City pardon me addresses uh safety issues through its code and through its regulations through what you're looking at but I'd say also what the city engineer reviews what the building official reviews um as as staff has shared I don't think the city engineer had any uh concerns with the design of the driveway in terms of it creating a safety issue um and in in terms of being compli with the code I think the driveway is is compliant okay comments I guess so if if I'm seeing this correctly the closest point uh that anything related to the driveway the retaining wall at the North End might be as close as 8 ft that is what the plans indicate the furthest west edge of the driveway at any point still um provides a 10 foot it looks like um space uh to the property line there there is a 10t Outlaw before the RightWay even begins and then it's a 24t road within a 50ft RightWay so if you put that right in the middle you would have a 13 ft space between the RightWay line to the edge of the road that would be 23 ft would be the closest for the public road I to the private to the got it to the property line got it the pavement surface so the dotted line is not the um like curban gutter that no the dotted line just indicates the uh the public rate of way that will be dedicated it okay oh that makes a huge difference cool anybody else for staff or for the applicant all right thank you staff um I'd like to just um open this up for our internal discussion now um and uh just kind of understand you know where people are at and how what you guys are thinking does anybody want to um start out well I would just share that I really appreciate the effort that the family has made in making these adjustments and uh I would agree with those reported staff comments that this this is a GameChanger and significant um in the right direction um I I personally think they've done a really outstanding job in meeting the requirements of the city and um it's a development consistent with our plan and desire for the community the 2040 plan um they've demonstrated you know they're it's compliant on so many levels there are no variances um uh I just uh I think it's well done and I uh would have no problem supporting this plan one thing that I really like about this whole evening is to see how passionate everybody who lives on Ferndale is about their neighborhood whether you're for this particular proposal or not everybody's passionate about it they love their neighborhood they love it the way it is it's always hard to see change and for the most part it seems like a lot of that's going to happen in that in that month and a have two months where a lot of grading is going on and then hopefully a lot of it will be a ways off from what most people would see it is impressive that the family went to such really I don't know I should if I should say extremes or not but they really took into considerations everybody's point of view and did what they could to change the road um to change the number of lots to save as many trees as possible and and and it seems like there are quite a few more trees that are saved in this one and particularly when you save Heritage trees that means a lot to a town like wetta so I guess that's what I have to say about my overall feeling about it thank you I would agree I think the family has done a wonderful job of being good stewards of the land I walked the property on Saturday um I think the three lots are very thoughtfully placed it is is in that neighborhood I mean I live in that neighborhood I feel like it's it fits in with that neighborhood um and I I you know if you look at these questions I think that we fall in that approval thank you I'm a relatively newcomer to this uh fale Bluff um and as I looked into it um uh at each point it was you know as the density met uh lot lot of questions in comments about the street uh which is the city putting uh requirements uh onto the development um the shoreline setbacks uh the tree removal I I smiled when I uh uh saw how many uh inches were removed and how many were going to be put back on cuz I didn't even know where you're going to try to try to find spots because that there's a lot of trees um so I agree that uh in general uh there is a um a thoughtful process here um I I I do understand uh uh the comments that came up with um during the public hearing I don't know if the safety issue is wondering if someone might fall off that seven or eight foot thing and if there could be um uh an indication that there be offense of some sort put on top uh otherwise I'm not sure that there's I understand the the the concern there but that was my only thought thank you looking at me got anything um no I mean I think um I wasn't here last year so I did not I was um I was absent from the Planning Commission meeting last year so I missed that but I think from what I've understood and what I hear and what I'm looking at here today I think it's thoughtfully done um and also just I really appreciate all of the neighbors um clearly passionate for your neighborhood um not only you know those of you who spoke tonight but all of the amazing it's probably the most comments we've ever gotten for um an application at least in my four years here so I just really appreciate that and I think that just speaks so well of our um our community but I would agree that um with my fellow Commissioners that I think it meets all of the standards here um I just you know like that there aren't any variances I like that you're using the land for the way you have it or the way it is um and and um just hope that we don't see variances in two years for hoses there um so I hope that um your new Builders will um be respectful of where we've plotted these potential plans so I'm good cool thank you chair yes absolutely I think um the the level of uh the amount of work and and passion that's got into it is is is amazing and super cool um I I appreciate the fact that there's no uh no requests on any of this um side note you guys must have had some Wicked sledding Adventures when you with all those Hills um but uh no I think it's I I I I like it I I think it's it's it's always a challenge to make everybody happy I think Bonnie I think you or sorry commissioner swabi you said it um best around like changes hard right and um but it can't stay the way that it is forever right like um sooner or later things you know things are going to change situations change right parents age out and and then what right like I don't live in my parents house anymore but they still do but for how much longer I don't know right and um you know so I think you guys have done a really good job with it um I I'll Echo um commissioner severson's comments or on the public comments the the number of public comments um that we got um about it I think it was really good so cool anybody else all right thank you Commissioners it sounds like we have a consensus um can I have a motion to direct staff to prepare a draft report and recommendation um for approval of the subdivision yes I'll move to direct staff to prepare a draft Planning Commission report and recommendation of approval of the application for riew and adoption at the next Planning Commission meeting second thank you commissioner El and commissioner Steverson any further discussion all those in favor say I I I any opposed eyes have it and the motion passes the draft report and recommendation will be on the consent agenda at at our next meeting and after adoption we'll go to city council for their consideration thank you applicant and everybody who's put so much time and effort into this and thank you public um for your comments and your passion around this as well and your belief in your neighborhoods aome um that concludes the public uh hearing portion of our meeting um next on the agenda is other items planner quarrels sorry well I I apologize here I'm going to take the development activities perfect um so uh you know we've we've all been watching Wells Fargo uh and you know that continues to move forward the one other to note is that uh 150 Broadway so kind of kitty corner here uh that has received its building permit and is now doing the foundation utility work but you will see that construction happening soon uh and then uh it's the applications that you'll see on the next couple of Planning Commission meetings we have a fence variant uh for our next meeting but then we will we ask could we ask the public to take conversations out into the Hall good thank you uh the applications that we'll be seeing at the next couple of Planning Commission meetings we have a fence variance at our next meeting uh we have 200 under uh Lake Street or the former TCF building was planned on March 24th and then we will uh see uh request for a Communications Tower at the EXL substation kind of on the North End of of um Central Avenue in April so 200 Lake Street is going to be what date March 24th okay um I don't know if you're aware they sent an email to all of the Commissioners is that something that's relevant to share to staff like they like offering to meet with them and um we didn't get uh they sent out a similar email to the city council and that got forwarded to us so it doesn't surprise us I think turn it to the City attorney on advice about I have not responded but I didn't know what to do with it yeah Commissioners in general I think it's good to uh keep staff in the loop if you get Communications from applicants um if only so that staff knows about what information you're receiving if it's something that we need to add to the record or uh perhaps uh advise you on you know our standing advice to Commissioners is to generally not meet with devel Vel opers uh who might come before you uh so that you can maintain objectivity uh and open mind about every application if they want to share information with you I think you can certainly uh ask them to communicate or if they have questions ask them to communicate directly with staff so that's our standing advice to you which I know you're all familiar with so just for the rest of the I just forwarded that over to you guys thank you yeah well I I did respond and all I said was thank you for your email and I that I really think it's best for all of us to hear what he has to say at the same time in the same place same words and that I'm looking forward to hearing about that at his meeting at the next meeting here and he replied and said thank you and he looked forward to being in here too so I just acknowledge that he sent it um if I could expand on that just to make you we uh for that particular development our public engagement uh process process or public uh information process does require a neighborhood meeting that will be conducted here now as far as I'm aware they have not scheduled that meeting um you can attend that meeting if you do all we do is you know ask you to not participate in comments and the like but uh between that and the City website has all the material that they've submitted so you know you are able to review it there so I think there are other there are alternatives to uh review the information submitted by the applicant other than taking them up on their offer on their email so if they when they schedule a public like a neighborhood meeting how much notice do they have to give and how soon before the meeting like could this get pushed another meeting because they haven't gotten that schedule What's the timing typically for that um so they have to have the meeting 10 days before the the public hearing and then I think it's just a week before that they have to send out the they letter uh they we originally had said that uh we were tentatively going to have it on March 10th and at that point they had this room scheduled for February 27th but for various reasons we we moved it two weeks so they'll probably move their neighborhood meeting to and where is their neighbor neighborhood meeting here yeah here in in this chamber and what is considered neighborhood asking as a neighbor is that one 500 or, it's either 500 or 750 I'll double check what we this the radius that was set um but it's open to everybody those are just the folks that would have received a not would will or would receive a notice in the mail about it but it's open to everybody Okay so we've got 200 Lake coming March 24th assuming all that goes off the fence Varian is that next meeting yes okay March 10th and then the communications Tower I'm not sure whether that would be the first or second meeting in April oh okay cool anything else no I'll just note our next meeting is March 10th and I think after canceling a lot of meetings last year we're on a streak of uh not canceling them too often this year so anytime you know you're going to be absent just let us know in advance just so we can keep track of that excellent can I just ask a procedural question or should I do it after we're done about how the meeting went tonight we can chat after you and I let's do that I just have a question about what happens when okay all right well thank you everybody for your participation this evening this concludes items on our agenda may I have a motion to adjourn please motion to to adjourn I second Schwab thank you commissioner L commissioner schabbi any further discussion all those in favor I I any opposed motion carries the meeting is adjourned