We are going to get started with our study session for August 24th, 2026. We have three agenda items. First is uh discussion on our 2027 recommended supplemental operating budget. We've got an hour and a half uh slated for that. Then we will hear an uh Rochester public um transportation transit uh financial outlook um update and then we will have an update on economic mobility program. So with that um administrator Zelms budget. >> Thank you council president. Council members I just want to start off the um well this isn't moving. Do I need to turn it on? press this button. Oh, it >> just might not be clicked on that screen. Okay, try. >> Oh, got it. A little help from the crowd. Um, so I just want to start off the 2027 recommended supplemental operating budget by thanking a large group of people who it takes to pull this together. Um even though we're in the supplemental budget, which isn't um as much change as when we're in the two-year budget process, um there is still a lot of work that has to happen in order to bring you the budget book, etc. So, big uh thank you to Rachel Hodic, uh Josh Der, Eston, Brian Anderson, Aaron Parish, the entire communications team who have to move back and forth and pull this together. You'll see that the presentation is ADA compliant, um which was a feat in and of itself. And then also um to all the teammates who work hard to make sure that their base budgets are reviewed and um that we are able to be able to support what we anticipate within the recommended budget um that we started creating about a year and a half ago in the two-year budget process. So with that, I'm going to go fairly quickly through the beginning as you have seen that before, but I think it's important framing for anyone that might be watching online that hasn't been at the prior meetings. Uh first we do try to look at this through the lens of your priorities and principles. So the strategic priorities um which is how we focus our resources and initiatives and then the foundational principles um which is how we try to approach every action and decision and how we deliver on those things on a daily basis whether that's operational or whether that's coming forward with projects that sometimes take five and 10 years from their idea to finishing them. You see some of that outside of city hall today. Um we have uh been through this process as mentioned we had factors influencing the budget in April. Um follow up with the audit which is what happened in 2025 and then again um in July um the budget update with additional information. Um we have this study session on the 24th another forthcoming on September 14th depending on if there's more deep dive that we need based on the feedback we get today. And there are some other holds on the um the study session agenda depending on if there's details we need to continue to work through. You do have the preliminary levy adoption um on September 24th uh excuse me, September 21st. Uh that's planned at that time. You would be approving a levy that could go down or stay the same but could not go up. So if there's something that you see here that you want to add, this is that's very important right now. Um, and then the adoption of the budget is planned for December 7th at that public hearing. Um, the supplemental process, as I mentioned, is not as rigorous as the two-year process. We don't have new a new decision package process for new ideas or expanding programming. Um, the RPU budget is included in this, but as we have been mentioning over the last year and a half, there's a lot of refinement that's been happening with changes there. Um, uh, general manager McCulla will present that part of the slides. Um, but we do have a lot more detail in this um, 2027 recommended uh, than we've had in the past um, because we've wrapped up all of the work that many other people do in order to bring this to you. So, what we're really looking for, and it's important, we've talked about this before, is getting any feedback on changes, adjustments, either um, reductions, increases, um, reductions to make other uh, introductions of new ideas. um and whether that 5.59% increase, which is not the tax levy rate. We'll talk a little bit more about that later. That's the percent increase year-over-year that would be required to fund the things that are in the recommended budget that are levy funded. Um again, we've talked about the LGA before. We heard from you um back at the last study session that that needs to be a significant discussion in the 2028 2029 budget process about pavement preservation um both roads and trails. Um so that will probably consume much of your time in 2027 early on. Uh and um again we haven't been keeping up with the um local government aid and the hold harmless fell off in this 2027 budget year. So um to get down to the details of the budget um what we have here for all funds combined and of course we we would expect some of this to change with Rochester Public Utilities um is a $799.3 million budget. the vast majority of that is not funded by the tax levy. Although we talk about the tax levy significantly, it's important to people who own property here. Um the uh total increase um is that that makes up is about $6.6 million in tax levy adjustment. Um the rate increases for sewer and wastewater, excuse me, for sewer are are still trending at 1% based on the rate study and they will be updating their rate study for the 2028 2029 budget year. Um for electric, the original um recommendation was 6% but the recommendation that came through the RPU board is at 4% which will affect the average customer by about $5 a month. and water um has not changed since the original um recommended two-year budget. That is about 9% and a change on average of a $1.78 a month. Um again, cost of service studies are going to be forthcoming for Rochester public utilities for both water and electric and then also for sewer as I mentioned. Um so those are things that are very similar to what you saw in the 2-year budget process. Um you can see how that rolls up on the right hand side of the screen. capital improvement program is a significant part of that almost $800 million budget. Operations though is also not insignificant. Just a reminder that some of the operational budget for Rochester Public Utilities is related to some of that power purchase. So there's some um it's a little bit more unique than it has been in the past. Um and then debt service again increasing in 2027 um primarily related to the sales tax debt um as well as some uh RPU. So, the recommended supplemental tax levy is sitting at $124,900,000 on up approximately and that is far less than what we had anticipated in the 2-year adopted budget. The trend line there was at 7.4% but again we go back and comb through the budget and make adjustments um as possible. The the two things that are not included here and let me describe these accurately in case we confused people. um we did not make any increases in the tax levy to absorb the credit card fees that we're continuing to see forthcoming. What we had heard is that we should be looking at credit card fees um which we call either a sir charge or convenience fee. Those haven't been finalized, but we're very close um to being able to bring you that. And then the loss of street reconstruction funding based on that local government aid change which I mentioned we would look at um in depth for the 2829 process. you can see that the property uh valuation growth that there's 1.26% in new construction. So, >> and can you go back to so just so I understand with the cut credit card fee considerations the current budget that you're presenting has no change in it or does not include anything on >> it doesn't include any increase in revenue for search charge fees. If, for example, depending on how those get adopted, it's possible you might see a slight reduction um in the tax levy that's currently necessary to absorb those, but if though they weren't approved, then those would have to be absorbed within whatever budgets are approved that are tax levy. >> Thank you. >> I have a question on that. >> Mayor Norton is on the street construction. Um the loss of funding with LGA, um other things are funded under street other than street construction with those funds. Correct. >> Correct. The remainder of that is um offsetting the cost for your general fund. So the all of the LGA that remains is going to offset your general fund which has is a significantly a significant operational cost for the tax levy. So you can see when I mentioned that 5.59% is not the rate. You can see that over the last um approximately 10 years the actual property tax rate has hovered between about um 46% and 52% and what this current budget is is showing is that the net tax capacity rate would be about 48.9% at this amount. So going down slightly from what was in the 20 what influenced tax bills in 2026. Again, that new construction number that I mentioned is going to absorb the first any dollar in first and then the remainder would be absorbed by how people's tax uh levy changes based on their assessed valuation and the rest of their property class. Um, again, the vast majority of the budget is actually not funded by tax levy. You can see the tax levy makes up about 15% of total revenue for that approximate $800 million budget. Um we have other taxes, special assessments, uh licenses and permits, fines and forfeitures, the penalty section there. Um intergovernmental revenue still a very important part of our revenue structure. If you think about the airport and transit, that's a significant amount of that intergovernmental revenue as well as the local government aid. Um charges for service is a big one. So when you pay your water bill, your sewer bill, your electric bill, um and there's a significant amount of fees, etc. with um our recreational services depending on what those are as well. Um, and then prior year revenue is revenue that's been collected anticipating that we will have capital improvements that um, we don't necessarily want to levy for or that you don't want to increase your rates for, but have been built in with some of those rate studies. So, it's revenue that we've collected that we knew that we would need to save up for in order to do a future capital project. Another way of looking at that is decision packages, which are in addition to the existing base budget. um about 1.15% of that levy adjustment is coming from those. Um again, you some this is after you net out from prior year where you maybe had some one-time expenses and that's carried in the levy. So, it's you don't need to absorb new levy for that. Um we had some reductions and then in in revenue that we needed to absorb and then we have the capital improvement plan that's necessary, the equipment revolving stabilization to be able to continue to buy vehicles at current rates. Um and we now have in we're in the first year where we do not have any um co era funds coming in for the holistic budget stability that the council created at that time to influence the levy. And then our ongoing base budget for levy supported employee services cost increases about 3.27%. Um obviously across the board that's slightly different and we'll get to that in future slides. Um public safety significant part of the general fund. Um the general fund is very reliant on tax levy as is the library and uh parks and recreation but you can see general government public works and we have some other things there like the um outside agencies funding etc. So significant amount of the tax levy is going to be able to support um the public safety function. Um if you look at the property tax distribution 70% of that property tax is going to the general fund. Again, that's where your police, fire, public works are generally located. Uh municipal recreation, it's about a little less than 10% of that. The CIP at 8, library at 7.5%. We have some debt service and internal service costs. That's also your equipment revolving. And the airport at a very small percentage of 6% part of the operation of the airport. The vast majority of that is coming from um operations revenue that comes from the airport. But we do pay um utilities less the natural gas and pay for the cost of customs. And then the total expenditures, you can see um many of these services are very reliant on the property tax um because you you're not charging folks if you they call 911. You're responding based on the fact that that's an expectation I think from a city like Rochester. Um and another way of looking at this is how much reliance is there. So if the library's got about 87% reliance on the tax levy, adjusting, you know, the tax levy and expecting that to come from library would be a fairly significant impact on the level of service there and vice versa on some of those other um implications the decision packages. So that um 1.15% that I mentioned on the other slide, you can see on the left hand side, these are the specific um I guess improvements if you will um that would be coming from those costs. Um and we did talk a bit about the adjustment for um community services police officer and one community outreach specialist. So you can see those still reflected here on the lefth hand side and then there are a few decision packages that are non-t tax levy and some enterprise funds. Um the expenditure categories adjust and fluctuate um annually in slightly. Um but you can see that miscellaneous is an increase this year and have been a decrease before. Um some of those things are dependent on projects or things that were getting done in that year. Um but again we try to adjust the budget as necessary. We don't just leave money in the budget if we don't need that project for that type of activity to continue on into the future year. And employee service costs. So, I mentioned the overall um tax levy related employee um services costs on a prior slide, and not surprisingly, if you have 24-hour services like police and fire and public works and fire, those are going to change um when you have more employees that are working to provide services there. They have larger changes um year-over-year. So, the total personnel expense inclusive of RPU is a $9 million increase for all funds. the general fund um what I which I mentioned is 70% reliant on tax levy um is 5.7 million about half of that is the um police and fire departments then you have a bit from the library a bit from municipal recreation um and then you have public works and other services and about 2.5 million of that is Rochester public utilities so water and electric employees um the salary and benefits the net increase is about 5.3% so um we have the general wage adjustment. We have 19 bargaining units and we still have I believe now it's actually one labor contract left. Um you did vote on one last week. Um and health and dental are trending at about 4% and 1.5% for 2027. So when we make adjustments and we have less folks that are taking family care that actually reduces the overall impact of employee services across the board. um inlue parking wastewater and storm water helps to offset the cost necessary for the tax levy based on right of way used etc and basically that if you have a parking ramp you cannot have a tax producing property there um but it is important um for some of those other services so what's reflected in the budget is your conversation from the prior study session and again the same thing for the inloo for Rochester public utilities electric and water um community reinvestment funding um was a an economic development recommendations um have not changed uh from the 2026 2027 budget process. So you can see those outlined here on slide 33. Um a few questions came forward earlier today. SBDC is the small business development center. Um the funds provided there um also help to offset or pull down federal dollars that are matching dollars for that. Um and the history center you can see there was an increase um in a prior year that was primarily related to the cost of busing for school programs that they were initiating just as a reminder as I believe that that happened um kind of early on in your careers here for some of you. Um and then the long range uh plan just you can see this is all over the board. So the tax levy percentage again is so much different than the actual net tax capacity slide that you saw that was hovering around a flat line for the last 10 years. This is the year-over-year increase. And so as when we have new construction, more of that is absorbed by new construction. But also when you have new construction, you have additional pressure on your services and your service level. Um when you look at the long range financial management plan, you can see um that we have projected um out in the future that we might have higher tax levy adjustments. But again, we've seen in the past that we've been able to mitigate those where possible. We carry in the trend some capacity that you could use to reduce the levy or for new opportunities for investment uh within the levy. We also assume some personnel costs are going to change about on average 5.5%. that could be less um but we're always sort of always negotiating it seems like well I'm not Mr. Parish is um and his team and then um did just want to point out in 2030 that we um carried a an assumption that that might be a year where you would be bonding to be able to build station 6 which is the fire station in Northwest. So that may or may not happen in that year but we want to project out that there will be a point where we need to be actually building that facility and staffing it. Um, so that is the construction and uh cost of that. Um, again, last year we anticipated 7.4% for 2027 and what the recommended budget is is a 5.59% year-over-year increase. >> Council member Wall, >> you explain a relatively small bump in 2030. What's the larger bump in 2029? >> Oh, someone told me that and that's already slipped my mind. Miss Odok is looking for that, but maybe Mr. Parish remembers. I recall that there's uh there was something in there. I think it was the way that we we had some one-time expenses that were falling off. So, it's sort of an the way that that shows up is because we're carrying less one-time expense falling off. I should have take brought my notes. >> Not standing out to me either. Rachel, >> in the meantime, I have a question. So you mentioned that uh the anticipated long range uh budget for 27 was 7 >> 7.4%. >> What was it for 2026 prior to that? >> 2026 in that in the long range plan before that it was much higher than the 5.95%. I want to say it was in the 8 to 9% range >> eight >> but we were hearing that there was concerns about that. So we were trying we that was a year where we made a lot we were very tight on on the baseline budget. >> Yeah. So my and my point is we've anticipated higher and now for previous year and for the supplemental budget we're coming in under. So >> correct and there are also a lot of different priorities that the city council has adopted that depending on how you implement them may have implications for the capacity that's carried here. whether that is reducing the amount, increasing the amount or maybe a combination of both depending on what you're looking for. So that conversation about pavement uh maintenance that there may be is some cost that's already carried there that you want to allocate towards that versus other decision packages. So that'll be an important part of our discussion early on um in the next budget process. >> I think that Miss Hodok has the answer. >> There's an answer. >> Thank you all. Um if you noticed on that slide where Allison had mentioned that the decision packs were at 1.15% but yet we had 2 million in decision packs that um we were funding that is the same thing. We don't have the one-time reversals to reverse out of 29 yet. So it is the full amount of DPS that are included in there at that time. So once we get 28s and how many are one time we could back that out but that's an unknown at this point. So, for example, if you added a police off, so we don't we carry a number there, but you could use less of it or you could use more of it or you could use none of it. And so, let's say there's $1.5 million worth of police officers in there and that comes with five cars. You're going to have a much higher onetime cost for the vehicles. And then after the fact, you're going to be carrying whatever the annualized cost is within the um within the um equipment revolving fund. So that's going to reduce the you don't keep adding that to your levy. >> Council member Miller. >> Sure. This is a related question since you've mentioned a couple times that new valuation absorbs the increase in tax levy. First, we had a presentation earlier this year from urban 3 that implic that contemplated some potential uh strategic investments or strategic directions to improve the efficiency of our tax base. How might we continue to think about engaging with that process as we look forward into the projections of city needs? >> Sure. I think a couple of ways. Um some of that is being very thoughtful about growth and expansion areas which you have a growth management plan that tries to consider that. You had a presentation also from Rochester public utilities about the water component of that and trying to be strategic about that. Also, there was some discussion on the same day, not exactly urban 3, about whether you might be able to um carry some of basically create a city-wide project for housing utilizing the um tax increment financing district that is the DMC district. So, that may have some implications, good or bad, depending on like the way that um the investment might happen. But, um of course, if you have tax increment financing, then that's not [clears throat] absorbing. But you do have a few um tax increment financing districts that are descertifying at the end of this year that will also absorb some of that increase. Um so again, this is just a numerical look at the graph that I just showed you. Um so we carry these across the various different tax um funded funds. Um and you can see how the changes in this um occur across um whether that's the general fund, the library fund, municipal recreation. Again, it's a trend line. This is trying to be a little bit predictive for you so that you can earlier on in the process say, "No, I'm not comfortable with this." Or, "We don't want to do anything new this year. We should be focusing on police or fire or those types of different things." Um, and so we also have the construction improvement fund. That's where you would see some changes potentially related to the local government aid. Um, and then, um, also the debt service there. You can see that jump up in 2030. So just another way of looking at the projection forward again not a guarantee um but something that we try to do to understand um both internally for teammates to be able to say you know this is going to have to be a lighter year where this is when we're I don't think we the council is going to be able to feel comfortable carrying a a new facility and a bunch of new decision packages at the same time. Um our major revenues um again the tax levy and tax abatements is recommended at 100 a little less than 125 million 124.9 million local government aid you can see going down in the the major revenues um and then um again down farther in the part that was allocated to the CIP. So to the mayor's question, what we had done with the one-time um hold harmless funds was to isolate those into the capital improvement plan which was focused on payment maintenance um so that you would have a longer runway to be able to make decisions when the form the hold harness fell off. And then looking at the hotel motel tax, you can see that continuing to trend up. I would say that's probably actually a low number, but we don't want to get comfortable with construction related hotel activity and then be surprised by that later. Uh we continue to analyze that. There's more information later in the presentation. Um and then down through the information here, you can see significant adjustments in Rochester public utilities. They have some major construction projects coming forward. So um they will describe that a little bit more in the detailed section for RPU. Again, debt service summary. Um here this is our existing debt service. Um and you can see um that in 2030, we would expect that to go up a bit if you are if that's the year that uh new fire station um funding for that would happen. Um and then um some adjustments there across the board for uh non-debt supported funding. We tried every year we have debt that falls off um and some of that is small and some of that is larger. Um but again that's just our general debt profile doesn't really change that much each year. um you have a pretty low depth profile for a city of 125,000 people and with the growth that you're we're seeing. So some operating indicators we've grown a lot since 1980 both in the maybe to council member Miller's question as the city has grown both in geography and also in population and number of properties um we have seen significant growth there but we've done what we can to mitigate the impact on on how much personnel um we're hiring to do that and taking advantage of technological advances contracting etc. And with that, you will not have to hear my voice anymore for a while. >> All right, I'm going to transition to most of the other funds here and then walk through some of the policy conversations. Um, I'm not going to go through the general fund in detail. Allison did a great job sort of summarizing all that. So, just kind of know that that's u you know something that's been well taken care of here. But just a note, you know, we are with the budget you have here um as well as just our historical practice. Uh we are forecasted right now in 20 or have actual um revenues over expenditures of 46% for our general fund fund balance. Remember our targets 42. Uh we always want to be a little bit above that because when expenditures grow then number to get to 42 grows. So uh we tend to be a little bit higher than that and so that's that's been good uh to have positive res revenue over expenditures. Um just talking about the special revenue funds uh parks generally uh most of the increase here is comes in two uh so there's about $3.4 $4 million of additional park investment. A lot of that is really loaded in uh to the sports plex. Um again, revenues and expenditures. You've seen sort of the operational profile there. Uh there is an additional arborist uh in this uh calculation as well. And so just uh note that and the rest is staffing uh contributions. Uh library-wise, a very dimminimous adjustment here. Just a couple hundred,000 of additional spending. So this is very much focused on base operations. uh primarily attributed to employee services. Uh moving on to the airport, uh slight increase in the airport, just over $40,000. Um again, really focused on supporting baseline and uh capacity needs. There will be some fee schedule adjustments that are discussed, particularly in the parking space, but we're constantly looking at our leases and how those can be sort of pro-social and pro beneficial to the airport um to enhance the funding available there. Uh you received some additional information today around employments. So uh employments or passenger activity has been up certainly not to prepandemic levels. Um all that enthusiasm around the United flights um still is there. Um but there's a delay in getting that into the system with just some broader federal airport capacity issues that we're continue to struggle through. Um and again a lot of our costs there are fixed. So irrespective of the number of employments or passengers we have going in and out of the airport, we still do the runway snow removal, we still do all you know all the things you have to do uh to successfully run an airport. But also note that passengers is one marker of the airport, but um I imagine you all get deliveries from time to time and you know the other kinds of things that are important for people. Um and that's certainly a growth area, but just not a metric that we track. We really kind of focus on um [clears throat] the employments uh transit uh this is a big difference of course you have BRT advertising in here we have the operations associated with VIA uh coming on board which I believe that's like this week right like so you'll be talking you'll be talking in a minute super excited about that um but there was some expense there like this this was a you know there are some costs associated with that contract and then we have the BRT operations and we have some temporary funding there um to [clears throat] support the local share. Obviously, Mayo's got a very strong portion of the local share, but that is uh something you'll hear about in our legislative platform um later in the year on your study session in terms of the work we need to do um to get dedicated BRT funding. Uh on to the enterprise. >> Can you hold a minute? Uh council member Miller, >> sorry, just before we move on to enterprise funds, could you go back to municipal wreck? Um and I just wanted to ask a question about the first bullet point to start. Um, one of the assumptions and concepts of uh how the proform moves forward with that is that it's largely uh tax levy uh not not relying on the tax levy. Does that continue to be the case? And how how is that 2.7 million increase uh for the regional sports complex uh fit in with that philosophy that that had been part of the discussions of >> Yeah. generally speaking uh there's revenues and expenses. So the the performance that you saw earlier, I mean, you know, those revenues obviously are offsetting some of the expenses. So the net to the budget >> um you know, is much less. >> But someone seeing this, right, who said these weren't supposed to cost the tax levy anymore, uh is is that still >> generally that's generally the Yeah. what we're what we're striving for. We obviously have some non-revenue generating activity happening now as they ramp in and all that, but but yes, it's revenues and expenses and the the lion share of the uh $2.7 million is offset by um by revenue that's coming in. So, >> and then a question about the increased monitoring and maintenance of picnic shelters and restroom facilities with RPD. Just curious about why uh why other areas of the park aren't part of that focus of of the parks like mo maybe those are recreational facilities, parking lots. I mean, how does that factor in? And and maybe this is a question for RPD. >> I mean, this is new. Um and I I believe you all received an email around this from Chief Franklin not terribly long ago, maybe a couple weeks ago. Um, I think the emphasis there is just highlighting like the the core purpose behind bringing on some of the park uh rangers or park focused CSOS was really to make sure we had the ability to do bathrooms well and maintain some of the outdoor assets that we have. Uh, we're predominantly scheduled in the summer, you know, for that work. And so for indoor yearround recreational facilities, it would be sort of gap coverage there. Um, but I think we're learning through it. And so that probably as we think about the 28 budget process, we could certainly say like is this going well? Are there enhancements? But this was really sort of this pilot year where this is the first implementation and overall I think we've seen good outcomes. I've heard a lot less about bathrooms this year which has been great. >> I have as well, but I've actually heard more about parking lots and some dangerous activity um particularly at Soldiersfield Park. Uh cars um driving through the track, driving through other places. And I I just bring that up because there's been a lot more activity in the tennis courts, basketball courts, and other areas, which is great. Um, but there have been additional complaints or issues that I've heard arising from some of that activity. And I just want to make sure that when we talk about what we're focusing on that we're not missing an opportunity to be just present in the parks generally and not necessarily just focused on shelters and bathrooms. >> Yeah, I think we it may be all that. Um, Chief Franklin's here. I see he's noting. I don't know if he has any comments to make to that effect. Otherwise, we certainly can, you know, consider that moving forward here, too. >> He's late, so I don't have a good spot to sit, so I apologize for that. >> We need a microphone right behind >> council member. I think I can answer that. Um, the the park csos have been a force multiplier and think of them as an augmentation of our current patrol services. Um, I can I can tell you that we have not reduced our footprint. So, it has not replaced sworn police officers in the park area. Um, but it's been a force multiplier. In fact, again, that report that I provided you guys a couple of weeks ago, uh, showcased that handinhand relationship and the fact that they have called us kind of that, uh, first eyes on the scene, called us and helped us be that force multiplier. That's the best way I can answer that question. Um, and, uh, I can run a report on calls for service that we've had at parks, but I don't have those numbers right off the top. I can say that we have had a few like you said a few um you know maybe higher profile incidents at Soldiers Field but um I I can't uh sit here and say that there's been this huge uptick in this >> I wouldn't suspect that there is either. It's more around the erratic driving and sort of uh car culture perhaps of some use of some of the parking lots uh in the evening hours. >> Uh that continues to be an issue that we're that we're doing our best with. Yes, sir. Thank you. And just quickly to go back to your original question, we do have the sports in its own fund so that we can measure the overunder relative to the um conversation about um any subsidy. >> Okay. Council member Keane. >> Yeah. I I just wanted to clarify while we're on the special revenue municipal wreck. I see we make a reference to the new arborous position that was in the decision pack, but again I want to make sure that's not funded through the special revenue fund. That's that's that's levy funded position. >> Yes. So the municipal recreation funds, all of those collectively are significantly funded by tax levy, but it's held as a special revenue based on how the charter works. So once the funds go to whether that's parks and wreck or whether that is the library, it stays within those funds and there then they hold their own fund balance. >> Okay. And so from my perspective, we the decision package was approved. So the levy goes up nominal amount but that money is put into this municipal wreck and then the the salary is paid out of there and if it's over or under the balance stays there. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And you can see on this uh the longrange financial forecast you can see the amount of levy that is allocated to each of the special revenue funds library and parks included. So you can see in 12 of that 12 you know million dollars in parks some portion of that is the new arborist position. >> Okay. I just didn't know how coingled the different sort of wreck things are with with forestry with uh >> that's a roll up. There's four different divisions of the wreck fund, but that's a roll up of all four in the way we tend to in the way the special revenue funds presented. >> Okay. Thank you. Um so moving on to uh enterprise funds. So again, parking, most of the adjustments here are well known from the rate studies that you've all talked about, as well as some of the ongoing capital and operational analyses that are happening. So nothing u particularly notable uh to share here um other than I believe we're super excited about the center street ramp opening up again here. So that's good good news. Uh sewer utility, as Alison mentioned, 1% rate increase generally uh many many projects happening here on the capital side. Again, these are predominantly intended to be reflections of the operations of the department. Most of the 800 or so thousand dollars of increase here is really attributed to staffing and some, you know, operating supply types of items. CIP tends to happen a little bit differently. Uh storm water, uh fairly base here, uh 0% increase in the proposed rates here. Uh so no material changes on the uh enterprise funds. uh that way they continue to work through sort of the uh evaluations that you've all heard updates on as well. So um with that, any other quick updates on enterprise funds before we transfer to water and electric? Welcome Mr. McCulla to the meeting. Good afternoon, Mayor, Council President, Council. Uh happy to be here to help support the budget conversation. um start just spend five to seven minutes uh to explain the water and uh electric budgets. Um no change to our strategy. We maintain costbased rates. We work closely to not have intrafund or interfund rate class subsidies back and forth and maintain key financial ratios for bond rating stability and long-term financial stability. Um total budget shows 245 million across both the water and the electric enterprises, but there's a very different story between the two funds. And I'd like to dive in uh to that very briefly. Um related to the original recommendation was a 9% general rate adjustment in 2026 and then again in 2027. We are recommending to hold to the 9% general rate adjustment that was already approved in the 2027 budget, but that's not without some additional pressures that are being managed with some short-term debt issuance, which I believe we've talked about earlier at the study session, as well as the other capital pressures that we may be facing in the water fund as well. That has a net impact of $1.78 per month per water customer. the average water bill or at least the water portion of the bill in Rochester is about $20 a month for an average consumer as well. Um here you'll also notice uh there's $6.5 million less um grant revenue in 2027 as originally anticipated. That's due to the the throttling I would say of the lead service line dollars coming from the state. We were notified that the remaining balance in the lead service line pool for the state is overs subscribed and we expect the current balance likely to be um exhausted by the end of 27. So we're still continuing to make good progress there, but we've uh adjusted our outlook in 27 uh to about a million half dollars of what we anticipate may still be available for lead service line funds in 2027. And so that's the downturn of the 6 and a half million there as well. >> Uh, Council Member Miller, >> uh, related to that lead service line program, do you plan to come back to us with a a modified plan to address those lead service lines that would then not be eligible because the the funding is less than we anticipated? >> That's a great question. Um, I think our pathway there would be continued state and federal advocacy for lead service line funds. These are largely well all private infrastructure since the lead service lines are owned all the way to the water main. So this is a per this is an expense that's grant funded and it wouldn't be appropriate to use uh public funds or utility funds for that. So we would be working I think it'll be present in our legislative priority list that we'll be discussing later on um as well. stepping into water capital. Um, this is the really significant part of the story here. Um, the growth in Rochester and housing and land development, I think, is a good news story as far as trying to meet our housing demands, but it's creating pressure on the water utility fund. The fee structure that we've had in place for water development fees largely contributes only to tower storage and some level of trunk oversizing for water transmission. other water supply, well pumps, booster pumps are funded through base rates. Therefore, with the expanded growth, that puts rate pressure there. Our strategy there is uh uh it's already been recommended by the board. It'll come to the council in September to issue short-term debt to manage those capital pressures where future customers would then pay for that capital expansion. Um and that is a combination of advanced metering capital the what we're calling the Kalmar booster station which will be meeting the new northwest high high pressure zone around the Pebble Creek I believe uh subdivision area where there's a new pressure zone and uh Meadow Lakes and Del Webb water main extension. So those three projects are anticipated to be uh need debt issuance in 2026 and also show up in 2027 there as well. Even with that financing, we're anticipating uh ending 27 with uh 10 million in cash reserves, which is still above minimum recommended cash reserves. Um the eagle eye on this slide would notice a missing parenthesy in the bottom right cell. That should be a minus 2.29 uh million. The the first and second columns are correct. It just was missing the parenthesis there to show a downturn in cash reserves. Electric is the more favorable change in this supplemental budget. I sat here a year ago and would have told you and did tell you that we needed about 6% general rate increases not only in 27 but through the end of 2030. So four years over and over. That was largely due to capital pressures of our firm capacity, our reliable capacity investments, the Mount Simon station, the gas turbine fire. We were anticipating needing approximately $241 million of debt issuance to fund those capital items. Uh we've had favorable variances on both of those projects and we're anticipating a debt issuance in the realm of $141 million. $und00 million less is a significant change in debt service obligations. So, our recommendation is to reduce the general rate adjustment recommendation in 27 down to an effective 4%. And not only in 27, but the 5-year proform shows it at 4% through the end of the decade. So, we had some very favorable results there. Um, and I'm happy to report that. >> Council member Palmer, >> I got a couple questions here. You you've got 1.3% [clears throat] customer growth and then you've got 3% um reduction in use. um how do you figure that out? And then on your customers, what percentage basically is is commercial and which is it residential? >> Uh I'll attempt all three parts of that question. So, uh we use a 20 or 30 year history to project forward what load growth is. It's a combination both of new housing starts, industrial loads, and so our overall customer growth is anticipating about 1.3%. This is mostly residential housing starts a combination of multif family and single family houses but every new customer comes at less consumption and uh the new growth on a per capita basis is lower energy use and so this reverts back to our 30-year forecast and we budget conservatively on revenues uh and usage. So those two numbers are slightly decoupled, more customers, but each customer is using less on average. And the forward forecast always is based off of not last year's results, but a 20-year average. So you're seeing a combination of those factors there. >> Would you remind me the third part of your question? >> You'd have to remind me. Mixture. >> Oh, mixture of >> mixture of residential and commercial. um our top 10 industrial and large customers account for about 30% of our load. Um and then I would say about 23 of our remaining energy and customer accounts are small business and residential. Um so it's it's about equal third industrial large customers, small business and then residential on a load basis. Um a third a third >> a third a third a third roughly. >> Okay. Uh we are recommending accomplishing the uh rate adjustment the 4% net effective by making an adjustment to the power cost baseline. So the rate schedule would have no change from last year and we would adjust the power cost adjustment to bring an effective 4% uh rate adjustment in lie of the 6% recommended. Moving on to electric expenses, capital and debt. Uh probably most important slide here on the electric side. Um baseline expenses show a 7.7 million increase of additional interest expense. That's the new debt issuance primarily anticipated in early 27. We plan to have that conversation with the board council October November time frame this year. Um, two major developments. I think I've touched on these. Recovering the gas Cascade Creek gas turbine 1 um for a modest capital investment that may not be insurance related, but largely we believe that can be recovered with no additional uh new capital outlay. And then the Mount Simon Station is coming in much less. Um the 4% recommendation doesn't mean we're investing less in reliability or efficiency. These are really really just reflections of the capital program on the electric side. >> Talk about some key outcomes. >> Can you go back? I I just have a question on the incremental FTEES graphic design and digital communications. Is there any uh synergy that RPU does with city communications that uh is there work together or uh long range planning to be a joint uh communications under one umbrella? >> I would say yes and no. There's uh strong communication that happens on a day-to-day basis related to the work of specifically the RPU utilities in the broader city, coordinated press releases, coordinated programs, but largely there is still a dedicated communication specialist already embedded within RPU that handles our pluggedin uh publication, direct customer communication, uh extensive communication on the advanced metering. We're touching a 100,000 endpoints and direct customer communication. And so there's resources dedicated to the work of utilities there that are not embedded in a centralized division there. This recommendation has is actually in the was in the 2-year budget as a placeholder. So it's already in the approved budget as far as a headcount there. The the purpose of that one is to offload some of the outside contracting that we're doing for the pluggedin publication and some of the accessibility work that still is yet to be done on the visual side. So it's combination of yes and no. This is an area where I believe it supports core business on supporting utility customers directly and the funding should come from the utility revenues there um for those services. >> Got it. Thank you. >> Um key outcomes um coming to the end here very quickly on the power supply resource plan uh largest bonded program. Uh you'll see a decline here from 76.3 million to 55. That's just a matter of timing. The 5-year uh multi-year capital plan uh just it just changes the timing of those expenditures. Similarly, on the Grid North partners, you'll see an increase, what is an apparent increase from 1.7 to 19.6. Again, that's a timing issue of sooner than anticipated, but the 5-year multi-year capital shows a slight increase to 32.5 million there. Um, as I stated earlier, we're maintaining our investments in tree um, management, day-to-day reliability, um, and some other technology and contingency work on the water projects. Uh, the Kalmar booster station is one of the larger investments that will start this year. We anticipate bid award coming in late September. We're anticipating a budget amendment for 26 necessary in concert with the debt issuance and the budget amendment to get started on that work. It wasn't anticipated of needing the new pressure zone and starting in 26. That also has implications to 27 expenditures. >> I'm sorry, I'm one slide behind. >> Y >> thank you. Um and then the Meadow Lakes uh and Dell Webb water main transmission expansion um will be another capital pressure. >> Council member Keane. Um just just on these specific things, uh General Manager McCulla, I'm trying to understand like on the um Kelmer and also on the Meadow Lakes, these are driven by new developments, but it sounds like they're being worked into the rates thing, which almost sounds like they're the expenses are being spread across the customer base and not carried by the new developments. Is that a like a policy or that just sometimes happens with the way the the work happens? Uh I would answer that that the developments are paying for portions of that infrastructure. Specifically with the Calmar booster station, there's a developer contribution in kind land and a cash contribution there. But that booster station will serve the entire full extent of the growth area and that land has not yet developed. And so we need to build the infrastructure ahead of the other land development. And yes, if we would not issue debt, it would have to be borne by current rate payers. The plan of issuing short-term debt is so that the future growth can be uh the future customers can pay for that as the debt service is paid off. And we do intend in concert with the water system master plan to come back with a recommendation on water development fees because there as it is now, some of that is not borne by future development. It's born by the rate base. >> Right. and and I didn't want to get into the complexity of teasing those apart, but I I do appreciate the um the goal of trying to drive the expense to where they're being driven from uh and to have them paying it as opposed to just absorbing into the system. >> Yeah. Similar story on the Dell web, the Meadow Lakes expansion. There's some direct contribution from those, but the trunk oversizing is a expense typically borne by the RPU other water rate payers. And so there's a portion of that that could be collected by future water main bane connection fees for other developments that would be served by that. That's another mechanism that we have there. But the reality is is that historically and currently we have ratebased some of that water system expansion on the water supply side. >> Thank you. >> My glasses back on to see my notes. I believe I am at the end here. Um so in summary, the water remains at the 9% recommended. Electric comes down to 4% for 2027. Um net impact of $1.78 and 517 a month total for residential customers. >> All right. Any questions for Mr. McCulla? Thank you. >> All right. We're doing amazing on time. So if I jinxed it there, I apologize, but that way uh so we have uh focused conversations. These are things we've uh sort of picked up on >> Mike. Uh these are things that we've sort of heard from the council uh that you've wanted to talk about. Uh we've tried to frame them and give you some information just to have conversation around each of these. I'll go through a few of these areas. I mean, some of the slides work together. Pause briefly for some feedback that you all have. um and then continue to move on to the next area. So, uh previous council meetings you've talked about better public meetings implementation. Um this really tries to give you some framing around the email platform. Of course, we have a go gov delivery platform now and Jenna here is available uh for any questions in this space as well. Um we're evaluating our relationship with Granus right now from a web service provision etc. And we have many products that you know we're considering uh whether they're be the best fit. um they haven't been as uh forward- facing and advancing in the access digital accessibility space. Um so just wanted to kind of note that. Um but here's just a range of different products that I think you all have had some level of conversation on in terms of customer relationship management. Are there better ways to do outreach? At a broad level, just to know um each time we do a new technology product, we have a fairly robust technology review process just from a cyber security perspective, public data, risk, um you know, they it's run through a variety of different testing, etc. So, and we also look at that to say like are we doing this elsewhere? You know, we have a system over here that does something similar so we don't proliferate technology that we have to support. So, um, there's the platform, there's various costs with that. Um, we also have, >> uh, can you hold a minute, Mr. Parish? Uh, Council Member Miller, >> I guess I have a question on this slide on the third bullet point, which says an opt-in approach is generally preferred for building an engaged, sustainable subscriber list. Is that a best practice among governments or is that just in general with communications and marketing tools? >> Maybe ask that Miss Bowman take a run at that. Uh, thank you, council member. Uh, as far as I I can't say that this is all of the research would back this. Um, it is in the research that I have done so far. You know, you imagine if you've opted in for something, the chance that you will open it or engage with it. Um, in in the research that I've done just indicated that it's not meant to be an opposition of the the opposite um or of an alternative. Um, but just noting that that was a point uh to consider. >> Okay. I'll just say from my perspective, and I I know this has been said before, but I think that I I would feel that way in general. If I were making a purchase at a local retail retailer and they started emailing me, I might feel one way. But when I want to hear from the city and I've heard the same from residents, that proactive city communication um that is actionable, relevant to the space and contextual geographically, I think is a service that many residents would appreciate that I wouldn't expect to to fit into that assessment. I I think that's true if I've given money once to a nonprofit or something. I don't want to keep hearing from them unless I've opted in. But I think when people want to hear from the city, information that's relevant, timely, and contextual is it falls out of that um assessment for me. >> Understood. I think the thing I would say as well just to consider is likely if that was the path we were going down. Um awareness building on the fact that folks would have been um subscribed and to be checking their spam. That was the one thing that was noted is given the various filters that occur through email platforms um be it a Gmail or something else of just wanting to ensure someone wouldn't inadvertently be unaware that they were getting those um by being subscribed. So it just to note that that's uh that's a piece that we'd want to ensure is clear that folks are knowing what they're looking for as a part of that roll out. The other the other piece I just wanted to note um there I know there was a question in regards to uh the opportunity for an elected official to decide if they would like to and so just to note in that annual cost of the 2188 uh that that is it's approximately $2,000 per user. So if not all elected officials wanted to participate in it, um that is just the cost per user is 2,000. >> Okay. I think that's a fair point. Are are all of these tools uh able to geographically understand where people fall in the city? Understanding that some communication is relevant to an area versus citywide communication does opted in or a topical opt-in. >> The geo the geo fencing any sort of geo piece to it. uh that would largely be the indigov because otherwise you are doing more of the optin. Um there are opportunities even in our existing platform for folks to identify what types of content or information they are interested in. I will say we are doing less of that today than even our current uh platform would allow us to. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh um can I just level set here? So, we're in a supplemental budget discussion and I see in front of me like one, two, four, five options and um I'm not clear on the granite kiss and kind of we're evaluating. I don't know when we're uh suns setting that. I guess what I'm looking for is a recommendation from staff that says this is a um a uh community engagement tool that we that we believe is fits with what uh what the uh council members are are talking about the next step for our community engagement. Uh, and so I guess my question is, are we going to get a recommendation and will there be a recommendation that will then impact our budget for 2027? >> Council President, council members, what we have talked about consistently is that what my recommendation is is it's very important for you to have the best practices for elected official communication and citywide communication. depending on the tools you use. It's really more about any individual use of those falling within some sort of communication strategy that does not actually dilute the city communication strategy. So that's what we had talked about before. I think based on all of the costs that are recommended here, you would have capacity within your budget or between the communications budget administration and that you if you aren't using Granicus anymore would have whatever's budgeted for that $15,000 in capacity. You might have some one-time costs, which I know we've talked about this recently, you could absorb within your contingency, but in the grand scheme of what the general fund budget is, it wouldn't be drastically different. But I think it is really important that you have some of that policy conversation about typically we do not have individual elected officials have separate capacity to for city tax levy funded support do different things from each other. There could be something here where if after all of the valuation came down, Indiegog was the choice and you weren't opting. I mean, that's a policy question. Do you want to as a local government opt people into all of your communication when they haven't chosen to get communication from you and the way that the contracts for Indieg have worked in other communities is you start paying based on email subscribers. So like at some point you're getting charged based on how many of these you send out. So it could go up over time. Uh there I mean I think that's a real policy question. Do people want us to reach out with like find out where they are, how they are and assume that they want certain information from from a local government? That's a question for the council as a whole. And at least recently what we've talked about is moving forward in some sort of pathway that talks about what is your communication strategy as a group? what when what are the you know starts and stops from being an individual elected official and citywide communication and what is your policy consideration for that? So I I I I would like to say we would come back with a recommendation as fast as possible but we're also trying to do active communications through a significant amount of construction and things of that nature. And I do think having some of that policy framework is important for whatever tool whatever tool may come forward. >> Mayor Norton. >> Yes. Um this has been an issue that we've talked about and I will give just two quick examples that have happened in the last week. I've had people say, "Gee, I wish I'd known about your town hall on transportation. I would have loved to have been there, but I didn't know about it until after the fact. So, that's one example, and that's one of the reasons why being able to reach out to constituents in a personal way via email as opposed to hoping they see it on social media would be helpful. The other is literally today I responded to hundreds and hundreds of emails, hundreds and hundreds of emails and the first one I got back was how little you care for your constituents because it was so impersonal because we don't have a way to personalize our emails. I spent I can't tell you how many hours putting together a very thoughtful note that I thought would explain something to constituents. It was viewed as too impersonal because it was dear friend because I was sending the same letter to hundreds and hundreds and ultimately through thankfully change.org 3,000 people they did it for me in their way. I don't have a way to do that. So, we need to improve our methods of communication, not necessarily what the city is doing, but how we as individual, you know, elected officials have access to and communicate with our constituents. And I think whether it's through a pilot or additional research, I would love to see you all as council members have and the next mayor have ways to communicate effectively with their constituents. And it is harder and harder with all the new technologies and different methods of communication that are being used and frankly the lack of a one-source media that we used to have in this community that we don't anymore. >> Council member Miller, >> I just add I mean to the question of opting in I mean we send mailings to citywide uh summer fun. We opt people into receiving that. We send postcards for neighborhood information meetings. We opt people into receiving those. And we hear from people who have reduced postal service or other access or change of address forms as as reasons they don't see that physical mailing. And I don't suspect that this is a catch-all either. But as we see communication tools modernized, it does feel like an area of opportunity even at just the staff level to be able to work on more modern electronic communication tools. And when I talk with people, they expect that I already have a way to communicate with them, know where they live, and other things. And except for running for election and getting the Secretary of State voter data, I think it's an a misunderstanding from people generally that we don't have uh an up-to-date list of where they live and who is at that residence because we don't opt into these data sources. I'll just add when we uh started this discussion on uh increasing community engagement by all decision makers including all eight of us that are at this table. We uh and that was a part of the better public meetings discussion back in February and we said we want to increase the visibility of all of us as council members because our constituents want to know who those decision makers are and we've started that process with the uh the passports that are great. Uh that increases our visibility. We're not engaging really uh um sub substantially with the constituents but it's increasing and there is increasing number numbers of constituents that do want to reach out and hear from us. So, I'm looking for a product, whether it's uh Indigo or another one that helps us to be able to maintain that that uh communications to personalize it in in some ways and also to reach out to those uh that geographically or demographically uh want to connect with us through uh through uh email communication or through town halls or through coffee engagements and uh and talk about issues. So, I'm looking for a recommendation, a few recommendations so that then we can have a more robust um policy discussion on which one fits uh our needs best. I'm not I I I'm in a place where I want the communications division to be able to have some some uh guidelines around that and that we as as elected officials have some guidelines around our ethics around it as well. And so looking for the framework on that. >> Yeah, I think that's a nice place a nice transition point. you know, I if you're going to do it and really Indiegv is the only tool on this list that um isn't like an opt-in situation, right? So, that is the one that is actually actively, you know, trying to bring in uh data uh for you to use. And I I think that the next step really is to say like what's the policy around this? I mean, we can do the technology evaluation, we can do that, but I think you all have to develop some form of consensus. This is of course the budget uh meeting. Uh as Allison said, city Mr. Zel said, we'll figure that part of it out. I mean, there's, you know, certainly ways to do that. Um but maybe your next stop on this one is really to think about what does a policy look around it. Clearly, when we're in election season, like this doesn't seem like it wants to be an election focused tool. Um but then that's like what is your self-governance when someone goes outside the policy >> actually? >> Yeah. I mean, what's your Yeah, exactly. what's your self-governance in order to do that? And you know, probably a rules of procedure, council rules, you know, kind of conversation as well is something you'd want to probably walk into that type of document. So, working through the the ethics and the governance piece, the tool sounds like it could be a fit, but just we all know there something will come up here that's problematic and we just want to be ahead of that before we get there. >> Council member Keane, >> again, I appreciate trying to shut this down in the supplemental budget discussion, but I'll add one thing. I hear the discussion between you know the tool side of it versus the policy. I also think there is a style side of this this what is an elected official's job and some want to do it one way and some do it a different way. Um some view it as their responsibility to communicate to everybody where to me I'm always trying to direct them towards the communications group. Um and the communications I do is onetoone not I don't try to do it a blast. So I think there's a style part of this too that and I haven't heard from all my peers. I don't plan to throw myself into this although clearly there's other of my peers that do approach their job and I think it is a elected official style discussion. Um maybe it floats towards the age differences too but I mean the newer people the social media stuff is big. This is not social media. This is direct marketing tools and I think that's different than social media. So, council member, I think you and I are in the same age group, so [laughter] I don't know that it's age. >> I think I'm older than >> Yeah. >> Any more on uh uh this? So, a good discussion to start. Let's we'll see more on it. >> Great. Um and we don't need to spend a lot of time here on PCO. You all know what that is. It's really anchors in our community survey. You're going to be seeing that here this fall. Um but it's also our other, you know, surveying platform that we use. And again, tools can direct you to that, etc. But uh we have the ongoing relationship with Pocal uh principally uh for our community survey. Um elected official uh budget funding. I just wanted to kind of talk through that. Uh you all requested you know this topic to to be on the agenda here. Uh certainly your travel and training um put both the mayor and council's information here rolled forward. Um business meals that's again money you have available. uh mayor's initiatives is a larger number here at 36,000. That's something that you know a mayor's office has the ability to sort of uh provide us discretionary investment opportunities. Sure. Mayor Norton, if you want to learn more about that, can tell you what she's done with that in the past. Um from a staffing perspective, there's one FTE assigned uh to the mayor's executive assistant. Um and then temp salaries, which traditionally has supported an intern uh for for the mayor's office. So with that, um, you do have the general weight adjustments applied here. I know it's a pop popular perennial topic for you all to think about. Um, but just wanted to kind of anchor you in some of these things. And there's sort of the amounts and then there's the how and what types of services are provided within those amounts as well that you may want to talk about. >> Well, I'll start and and this has uh nothing to do with the current mayor's uh initiatives. I have no questions that they're all valuable initiatives. Um, and uh I I know a lot of them are very important to our community. My question is more from a uh a policy standpoint as far as um so the mayor has a $36,000 um um budget line that actually the mayor can use at their discretion where the council if we have an initiative uh and I know council member Miller had one at our last council meeting. Council member Palmer has had some in the past. We have to get approval on all of those. Uh and so I guess my question is what is the oversight to mayor's initiatives? >> Uh council president, council members, I I can start and I mean I think that you all are aware that at least our current mayor is very has very high in responsibility and so um all of the financial policies still apply to that. Um, and there is also the public purpose doctrine that applies. So, if there's, for example, an expense that's related to something, it needs to go through micro contract process or something of that nature. Um, we review those things. There's, um, multiple sort of checkpoints through facilities, but or facilities, well, another finance word, finance, um, f word there. Um, so, [laughter] so those types of things are important. Um, also you all have access to be able to bring forward ideas for we do carry a million dollars in contingency each year that's already built into the baseline of the tax levy that um has been utilized either by coming forward with city council requests with staff requests or sometimes there has been some costs related to mayoral requests um if there needed to be a match for a grant or something of that nature that's been much rarer. Um, so those there there's not oversight in the sense of it coming to the city council beyond the budgeted amount. So budgeted amount of $36,000 needs to meet the financial policies and the public purpose doctrine just like if there was $36,000 budgeted for communications outreach or something of that nature. >> Mayor, >> and I all of the expenses that come that we use in our office go through we fill out all the paperwork. They go for signage. they go to finance and they're you can you have access to them at every meeting >> that they show up on the finance report. >> Could you do that differently? That would be I mean that's really >> so then I know that it has come up uh at this table on uh potential staffing for for uh council council members whether that's a halftime FTE or part of the current uh staff support that uh falls under the mayor's budget. Uh can you talk a little bit about that options in that area? >> Sure. Council President, council members, this has adjusted over the years. So before my time, there actually was a mayor and council budget all combined into one budget. And so I'm not exactly sure how that worked, but my understanding is that there was a fair amount of support for Mayor Brady. Of course, much of this was before like the internet and social media and things of that nature. Um, so I think there's room for conversation about having there be um, mutual support. Um, especially kind of goes back to some of the prior discussion if there's um, policy discussion around communication engagement like there may be more capacity there to be able to do some of that. Um, like scheduling rooms, scheduling meetings, things of that nature. I don't think it's, you know, everybody gets office support, but if you if it's if there's some parameters within that, I think there's probably some capacity. And I think that's also a conversation amongst yourself. If you're looking at adding an additional person, then you would need to be looking at doing that now. Um, I think it could be healthy to have that person report to administration, which it did in the past, especially from the perspective of like the labor unit that it's in, things of that nature, not for day-to-day activity, but just for making sure that if there is support for eight different people that we're following the council rules of procedure and code of conduct, things of that nature. Um, and I think we've talked in the past about that there would be additional capacity within communications and engagement and personnel there. If you have some of that agreement on what does the policy look like for um having best practices for elected official communications and engagement married with what is the best practice for strategically communicating and not diluting your message as a whole. So, I think there's room to have that conversation and it's really the pleasure of the elected body. >> Other thoughts, >> Council Member Miller. >> Sure. And I mean, I don't necessarily think that the next step is to add uh halftime FTE for the council, but I I would be in favor and I I've talked to council president Schub feeling a limitation of staff support um and having to go through a rules and procedures process where we're not asking for more than 30 minutes of staff time for any single question. And I I do feel like having support for communications initiatives that can be filtered through a general communication strategy would be helpful for doing outreach around specific areas, geographic town halls. Um, I see them the mayor operating quite effectively with her town hall initiatives and at the same time feel a slight disconnect in some of the like when is from the public when is the mayor leading an initiative where is it council how do we work together and I think some of the staffing that we see here um kind of sets that up to be the way it is that the mayor has additional support and yet the community doesn't always understand that the council is the voting body. So, I wonder how we can um begin to better educate and and build those in from a collaborative place even in the budget. So, I I don't have a prescribed solution to this, but I I I would support more conversation on it. >> And I think just to follow up on that, I think that given that we will have a new mayor in 2027, I think it's the time to have that discussion and to look at, you know, each one of these uh line items. I mean, travel and training. You know, there's 16 in the mayor's budget, and we don't know if the the next mayor is going to be as international and a spokesperson as as our current mayor. And um I also I I'm not finished, mayor. >> So, I'm just done. >> I will. [laughter] Um and uh and I I do think the mayor the mayor's initiatives I think bringing that into council consideration I think is important. I I do think also when it comes to partnership the mayor and the city council are partners. I think the looking at what what was a mayor city council budget may be a an option that we should we should have further discussion on as well so that it's it's one budget and it's not uh not separated uh this way. So Mayor Norton, >> thank you. I just want to be really clear because the community gets off on this and gets very confused. None of my travel internationally has been has none of the city's budget has been used. I've used my personal funds for all international travel. Just want that on the record. >> Thank you, council member Palmer. >> Well, I appreciate what the mayor has done and I think if you're going to change anything, I would talk to the mayor. She's the one that sat there for eight years and has done it and maybe she has some suggestions that uh she can give to us and the to the um administration because I I don't know um you know her positions on what she's doing but but her travel and her training has been very good for Rochester and and very upfront with Rochester. So um you know her budget's different than ours but there's a reason for that because she is the mayor or it is the mayor's position. Um I'll just speak to the 3%. I am not in favor of a raise. Um and and uh I don't think that's necessary for us. >> Further discussion. >> I I think that's a great idea, uh Council Member Palmer, as far as we want to hear the mayor's, uh thoughts on this. >> So, we'll have further discuss. >> This could be a carryover to the next meeting. I mean, we have 90 minutes for our next uh study session. we could, you know, bring this slide back um if you have some time between now and then to collect some thoughts on on these issues, but I'm certainly happy to happy to do that. Um just a a quick I'm not going to go through this point by point, but um as you know, uh and the council had asked about process and this also kind of walks into our engagement strategies around key important and big policy issues. So, the council had asked about, you know, how how can we engage better with the budget um for our next two-year budget. Um we also have strategic planning. So, we do anchor strategic planning efforts um every year. And so, I think this process that we're laying out um really does provide the opportunity um to walk the strategic planning process with the budget process with high higher levels of engagement targeted out in the community meetings. um we can consider some of your fifth Monday types of meetings, you know, for town hall uh budget feedback. Um so, um Deputy Administrator Steinhauser's uh put together a great request for proposals um for us to be out getting proposals uh on potential consultants that can help us through the process. They typically have some, you know, things that they bring to the table. Um but just say that there's a organizational and employee input piece of this. Um there's high touch and high engagement with community partners and board and commission members similar to what we've done in the past, individual meetings with mayor and council members. Um community outreach and so you know we'll continue to refine the process as we move along. Um but you all in next you know late this year into early next year um ahead of the budget process so your policy priorities can be reflected in it um will have the opportunity to update your strategic uh priorities. So again, we'll be out with an RFP on that soon, bring the results of that back for to the city council for consideration. Um, so you have the opportunity to select a team uh that makes sense to to support your process. And again, all the great similar budget stuff that you all know of and the cadence and you know, I'm not going to go through the calendar for you all on that, but any questions on strategic planning, action planning, budget for next year? Good. Okay. Um this a few slides here are kind of bundled uh together. So I'm going to go through a handful of these fairly quickly. So we have summer festivals. We just wanted to lay out what we're spending and sort of this community experience space. Uh I know there's been a lot of active council conversations here. Um but you can see what we've done for Fourth of July celebration of the city, the level of investment we've made. We did it a little bit differently this last year with the way we did Fourth Fest, etc. So um these are the budget amounts we have available. If we want to do any rethinking monetarily, that's one way. But then I think also uh we're proposing that we spend some time process-wise uh thinking about how we might want to do these uh next year as well. And you have Riverside forward here. >> I do just want to point out $36,000 there is for fireworks. It's not for Fourth Fest. >> That's correct. I'm sorry about that. Um so just just some summer festival highlights here. Just again not going to go through. Council member Miller >> and just a point of clarification, celebration of a city is Rochester Fest. >> Correct. And it has always been carried in the budget as celebration of a city and at some point in history Rochester the Rochester Fest organization is the organization and 501c3 that's been operating that. >> Yeah. >> Um so again some of the highlights of things that we've done uh with Riverside and forward concerts and you know the net investments in there. Uh, previously you talked about some destination marketing focused efforts as you had conversations around the Chateau Theater. Um, there was some additional conversation about a new destination marketing initiative. Uh, very normal for a group like Experience Rochester to have a very active destination marketing presence. Um, we put a lot of our lodging tax revenue into uh the operations of the Civic Center and Rochester Sports. Um, but you know, there's sort of this traditional convention and visitors bureau activity that you want to think about as well. Uh, there was a requested $300,000 investment uh to focus on more active festivals and events and visitor information center and continuing with the certified tourism ambassador program and headquarters and just other things that uh are trying to support the tourism strategy that um, Experience Rochester is trying to deliver on. and they've done a nice job of going through their most uh recent uh tourism uh planning effort or uh outreach effort there. Uh from a financial perspective on the lodging tax uh just walking you through this. So uh we tend to think about it in a few areas again just overall anchor commitment for experience Rochester running the and contracting uh with the vendors for the operations of the civic center. Uh again, we have about 600,000 that also goes to Rochester Sports. Um we try to retain the residual for capital investment because we have sub substantial capital needs there. Um and you've seen those in the past, but they're very material. And then our debt service, uh which we are on a trajectory, as we talked at a previous meeting, toward satisfying that in the early 2030s. Uh when we do that, we can redirect that into future capital investments within the civic center. Um but until now I mean it's really supporting the previous expansion. So want you to see that we're on a forecasted trend upward in this area. Uh this does reflect the additional $300,000 that you know could be done. Uh if you know from policy perspective you so desired. Um but just wanted to give you sort of a better connection and break it out as a standalone policy issue as you all requested previously. So uh with that I'm going to just advance. Uh >> so Mr. Paris, just so I'm clear. So the three that $300,000 the destination marketing is that in the operations of the chateau piece that's the 300,000 that we're talking about or is this a separate? >> It's both there. There is a component. So if you're talking about daily activation, there's a component about the the downtown welcome center where and the festival coordinator that would also be working on the chateau. So there there's a mix of that and um I believe >> so when we have a our discussion on September 9th on the chateau these three position or these two positions and this downtown welcome center will be a part of that operations budget is that correct >> just if you look at this slide and and correct me if I'm wrong here but there's the chateau piece and how do you activate the chateau and work with that and I think the chateau events manager is wrapped up in the, you know, the approach overall um the 200 whatever thousand that's needed to do that. The the second two items here are really focused in that $300,000 additional enhancement. So, if you you can break these these out into those two areas. Item one, I think, walks with Chateau. Two and three really walk with this enhanced $300,000 investment and activation that's talked about more here. >> I think it's a little bit more nuanced than that, but we will clarify. >> Can you help us kind of tease this out? Yeah. So, I first of all, I think we will provide more um information to this at an upcoming um reports and recommendations on a city council meeting, but um I do think they are somewhat uh co-mingled in um using a percentage of that 300,000 focusing on specifically the activation and potentially staffing of the chateau um as well as the visitors centers, those sorts of things. and then um uh a smaller portion of that 300,000 focused on um partnering with the community to activate the chateau. So if for example we were to say don't do anything on the chateau but do these other things I think it would be a very different number. Um so they are sort of co-mingled in that 300,000 and we'll we'll work to provide more information on that. >> Thank you. And there's an additional investment beyond the 300,000 that you that anchors it in. Yeah. Um Okay. So then just thinking about this, you know, we have a variety of, you know, we we talked about how we delivering, you know, public music activities, how we delivering, you know, the chateau, destination marketing, other festival, uh items. Uh as part of our ongoing evaluations, uh we have one forecasted for public safety. Uh we're working on an RFP in that space um that you all will see in September. And so that's a that's another conversation. Um but we also are proposing to really have one that's anchored in community experience. Um so thinking about how we do that for 2027 um and bring back some recommendations on how some of these additional items uh work because again a lot of work in the tourism space that's happened. parks continues to do their master planning with a lot of things in the library space uh that are ongoing, but this really would focus in some of our we'll call it thirdparty community experience providers. Um and really just seeing like are are those in alignment? Is there need to be some shifting to optimize those existing investments and and thinking about arts and culture and other elements of community experience? Um, so with that, before I move on to the next last two pieces of the conversation, just any questions you have in the previous slides that you had seen in the community. >> Council member Miller. >> Yeah, I do have a question because it comes up every summer. Uh, the idea of like how Rochester Fest is evolving, how the city's role in guiding that is, what is the length, what is location, and obviously Thursday's downtown has grown quite a bit um over the years as well. And I'm just curious where and how the city and and us have a conversation about the right level of programming working with event organizers to make sure that it's um you know an efficient event that's well using these resources well is well attended is relevant is not competing with two events in the downtown space and is is basically um you know moving forward into the modern time as a relative event that draws people across the community and region. I think that's part of what we're trying to get to and looking at the broader system. I would just say generally we've been providing a specific level of support and Rochester Fest as the entity that's been operating has programmatic ability to be able if if they feel confident that they could pull that off. We just don't give them more money. Um so they have a fixed amount that they're receiving. And I think that that would be a healthy conversation that we could either have going into the 2-year budget and having some of this information might be helpful. Um because there are any number of groups that maybe would be interested in partnering together or not partnering together, which also then becomes the challenge. If there's individual visions, then how does the budget process like play into >> maybe marrying those up a little bit, whether that's through reducing funding for one or the other is a little bit challenging, I'll just say, >> right? And and that's one of my concerns too, looking at the possibility of a a festival coordinator and the presence of RDA running a series of downtown programmatic events plus Rochester Fest. How we're making sure from a budget process that those are all happening in collaboration and partnership and not in a competitive way for a you know potential audience for a downtown summer festival. Um when those happen at similar times, similar locations. Uh, and I'm just struggling a little bit to understand how we best manage that, particularly in the in light of a potential opportunity to invest funding from the lodging tax to create a festival department within experienced Rochester. I think it can be part of our optimiz, you know, this whole idea around the evaluation, you know, could also try to assess impact, right? I mean I think you know this is what we're doing but part of that will include recommendations for enhanced impact and these are all very challenging conversations people get used to sort of how you delivered these things in the past. Um so you know receiving a list of recommendations on how you might optimize and enhance um some of these investments and what kind of impact and putting numbers in front of people in terms of attendance and all that will certainly be part of the evaluation. >> Council member Palmer >> kind of going off what Mr. Miller's kind of talking about is is the celebration of the city. Um seems like we've increased it and increased it. I'm not particularly sure that um we need to keep doing that. I don't know if it was started out as a let's get it get it going and see if it can run on its own, but I believe that dollar amount you're showing is only for a cash outlay. It does not include our employee time that from parks and crease and >> is that correct? >> It's sort of correct. There are some bill backs that they do pay. So there is like when we clean up the streets around there for the parade, they don't pay for that because there's tangential value to having street sweeping things of that nature. But um like many other event permits, they are paying for some direct services, but this has been going on for quite some time. So there are other services that are likely going in kind to be able to support what the celebration of a city with that has been operated by Rochester Fest. But I would say they do reimburse for probably the lion's share of the costs, but there is some immeasurable amount of cost from parks and public works that that does not get reimbursed easily. >> And your Fourth of July is only for the fireworks. What would it take for us to do an experienced Rochester event that they had prior to that? >> So, you are still carrying in this budget the $20,000 that was slated to be removed in the 2026 budget from public music. So that could go over to them and then you could have a conversation also about lodging tax and whether or not that might be able to support it. I think the policy question is would you like to have an entity like Experience Rochester operate that or not? And I don't know what the pleasure of the city council is. Perhaps that could be additional conversation at your next study session. >> I I would >> I believe the cost this year was close to $40,000. is now granted. We were in the 250th celebration, so perhaps that would, you know, you would scale some of that back a little bit. Um, but that was a the approximate cost that was estimated. >> Thank you, >> Council Member Miller. I >> I'd be in favor of that. I I think additional discussion about the interim 2027 year and then a fuller evaluation of community impact could be a thoughtful process to be able to step into a different model. Uh build in partnerships, understand how the community would receive these. I'll just still also say I would love to see the fireworks move down to Cascade Lake once link is open and we have much greater access. Pitch the lacrosse field is the point to shoot them. But I I I do want us to figure out how to evolve and make sure that all of our community in investment and festivals and public events continue to be relevant to the diverse cross-section of our community and evolve as our community grows. >> Your honor, if there's no more questions in this space, I think the remaining slides can forward to the next study session if that's okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. Can I just ask if there's other anything else we need to discuss at the next that would also be helpful to know >> member Doring and then council member Keane >> if we want to make an amendment to the supplementary budget how do we do that? >> It would be helpful to have that information now especially if it's an increase in the tax levy because that's going to be coming on September 21st. I anticipate that I will be making uh about a $100,000 ask for the Any Path Home initiative as we look at future programmatic efforts or um possible uh staffing of a community engagement uh professional for the neighborhoods surrounding our um our homeless shelter network. So, I would like to have that discussion at the next meeting. >> We can show what the implications of that might be for that. >> That would be great. Thank you, >> Council Member Keane. Yeah, just on the overall I know you asked >> you asked for an additional feedback on the 27 early on slide seven government services growing in in my view I was trying to look at the overall 7-year view and we're at about 6% a year average which is above the growth of Rochester and also like above inflation but we've also added a bunch of services like 311 um and most of all of those things have been council approved so I I mean I'm I'm watching thinking is it reasonable but but I'm also watching on page 12 when you talk the tax capacity below 50%. I just have this bad feeling that that is so overwhelmingly supported by these increase in property values that have happened over that same seven-year list that if we ran into a an economic like struggle where things stabilize or went down 10%. I mean, I I think we're at a point where I think we'd really struggle as a city to try to figure out how to absorb those because right now we've been sort of getting by on some of the city growth. Um the services that we I mean we've also had voters approve a 2% increase for uh for the parks referendum. So most of the things like looking at that as the bigger seven-year picture, but I really do get cons concerned when I see that 8% twice in the next 5 years and saying like how can we defend that as a as public services going up is it um you know I know there's things with benefits and these other things but I think some of those things we have to find a way to absorb which we have in the last couple years. We've had twice now in the last couple years where we projected a higher uh levy increase than when we got back to. So that was good to see. The the other point I'll make and this is budget discussion but budget discussions send us in different directions but I I mean I really do appreciate that our major capital projects are staying pretty well within bounds. We're having all kinds of trouble with closed roads and that but we're not falling down or getting in the way of Mayo or getting in the way of other private things. I think that I'm glad to see the attention going into that, but I'm hoping it leads towards a, you know, early 272 27 mid 27 where streets are more open and and safer than they than they have been. Um, so th those are my couple I've got a couple other little things here, but just to tie it out as far as I could I would support uh the budget, the supplemental budget the way it is. I I do want to just state for people watching this, we really did a two-year we do a two-year budget. So this is a year of just looking for what's, you know, nominal changes. This isn't a full budget year. I think the people around the table know that, but for anybody listening, we're really just looking at what changed year-over-year. And I appreciate the RPU perspective on that and and the communication stuff. So that those are my comments and if there's any reaction, >> council member Palmer. >> Yeah, ju just to be clear, it's not 2% for the park referendum, it's $2 million that they get each year. So, just to be clear on that, um I'm I'm only on slide 11 with the total growth of your estimated market value is 5.2%. I think that that's reasonable for us to stick to. I know that we have some tiff funding that's coming off um onto the full budget. So, I'd like to see us be at that 5.21. I think that makes sense for people. If you're out in the neighborhood talking to people, affordability is a huge issue and I think that we can justify a 5.21%. >> Is there something specific that you would recommend removing from the budget? >> I I'll bring that up next time. I've sent an email already >> and uh administrator zms remind us a point uh so what council member Palmer is proposing is a reduction of of the current uh percentage that we're looking at by uh 3.9% what what is the uh number the financial number that >> I believe that's in the neighborhood of $300,000 >> three so it would be 300,000 450, >> not 3.9. >> That'd be nice. >> 5.39. What? Tell me your number again. >> No, no, no. >> 0 39 >> is what kind of budget cut would >> about 400,000. >> 400,000. There we go. Okay. We can get you a specific number about what it would look like, what the total dollar amount necessary to cut would be to have the levy amount at 5 >> 21 >> 21. >> Okay, we can show that to you at the next study session. >> And hopefully and remember, we have to get to agreement on what with those things that would be cut in order to be able to make it there. And we've had a suggestion that there would need to also be healthy discussion about whether or not there's support for any path home funding. So, >> and just to be clear, I was asking for that, not because I was advocating for it, but I just wanted to be clear that we would have to find $400,000 not including the addition that council member >> uh Doring had is going to propose. So, >> correct. any more coun uh mayor nor >> yeah just just to I think the caveat for all of this for for the community though is that we don't know exactly what cost of living increases are going to be we don't we don't exactly know what um what the bill will be at the end when the county rolls out the amount that we're going to have to spend. So this is your best professional guesstimates as to to where that will take where these numbers are going to take us. Correct. We typically do not get the final estimated market value from the county until after you've adopted your preliminary levy. And it's at some point in November, right around the time that they're sending out the tax notices. So um we every year try to get that in advance to understand is there new um construction coming online that will adjust that. Um, but council member Keane is correct that a lot of that is being absorbed. Now, what I will say is that there are other communities that don't have growth in assessed value or new construction and some of those communities are at double digit increases year-over-year in their levy increase. And really what you'd be talking about in a year in if if we started to enter that trend is service reductions. >> Thank you. That's what I want to clarify. >> I think that's extremely important. Not to be labor of the time here, but like if you hear about the kinds of budget conversations that are happening through the state, this is actually pretty remarkable. I mean, you see like Minneapolis St. Paul, they're, you know, coming in at, you know, very high projected structural deficits in the 30 plus million range. And talking about tax levy increases, you know, much more material than that. I think, um, why we're not in that situation is because we've had prudent budgeting in the past and you've all been very responsible in the decisions you've made. So, just emphasizing that from our even neighbors around here, but particularly our neighbors to the north, uh, we're doing quite well. All right. And thank you. >> Thank you. >> And we will move on to Rochester Public Transit financial outlook. >> Since you weren't listening to the whole thing, these are the three things that came out of this. >> See? He wants to get rid of >> See, we could have done that in 30 seconds. >> Yes. >> I don't think there was anything else that came up. >> I could say a guy was This is a fire. This is a buy group that's looking at some paid property. >> We're going Fouch. >> Take it away. >> Good afternoon. I'm Rachel Fouch, the director of transit and parking. So, it's been just over six months since I came in January and presented on the financial status of the transit department. So, just here to give a mid-year update and where we are in our initial plans and where we see kind of projections as we move through the rest of this year, next year, and the future. So, today's route uh we'll be going over a few things. One is our financial outlook. So, we'll be looking at where we were, where we are, and where we and how we plan on tracking wrote his agenda. [laughter] >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Got it. Yeah, the pun was not subtle [laughter] um or deep, but it was there. Um we'll be reviewing our KPIs. Uh we have our partner in VIA here, U McCall Houston, will be presenting on kind of VIA's forecasting and plans and then kind of going over our existing and future community collaborations and timelines on what council should expect over the next two years um at through the transit department. So just to level set in a reminder these the this work is ongoing. So this has now been we came in January and nothing's happened over the last seven months. We have um made many improvements and many changes in the transit department. One was our RFP for operations and so that award has been given and they start next Wednesday, Tuesday, uh September 1st. And then additionally, as presented in January, kind of talked about the biggest cuts that we are able to make are within our CIP projects. And so we'll be going over some of those reductions that we've made. Um, and then additionally, our advertising RFP, which I briefly talked about um, previously, but it's an opportunity for us to generate additional revenue for the transit department. As a reminder, our only form of revenue is fair and advertising. We don't we don't collect any local tax dollars. Um so no tax levy or sales tax dollars are utilized within the transit department. So for our financial outlook um we came back preview in January and presented this slide um to talk about what we had anticipated the impacts to the transit fund would be over the next three years. And this is due primarily to the fact that MIDOT's required contribution for local share was shifting from 5% to 15%. Historically that percentage was 20%. So just to to provide that additional context there. So 2024 and 2025 there was a reduction of that local share dollars to a 5% match. Um, and then this year, 2026, 2027, and potentially 2028, uh, that will be 15%, but historically that match has been 20%. And that's what that match is on the capital improvement side consistently. So there was no reduction in that match requirement uh, for the past few years. So as we're looking at these numbers, you'll see those also reflected within the data sets and the KPIs that you see in our projections. We anticipate that that match going up to 20% in 2029. So you'll see um that being reflected within the graph as well. Oh, I didn't even talk about it. So in January presented that we were sitting at about 5.3 million within the transit fund with an anticipated loss in 2025 at just over half a million dollars. Um and then a projected loss for 2026 at about 2.4 million. And as you'll see, this is our current projection. So in 2025, we actually were able to put around $300,000 into the transit fund. So our transit fund is sitting at around 5.6 million right now. And for 2026, our anticipated loss is only8 million. And as reflected, that is based on um that's based on a reduction in CIP projects. So we reduced um our office remodel project substantially, although that hasn't come forward to council yet. We did slim back even with the proposed plans that we're working on right now to bring to council in the future. Um but additionally, we reduced any um fleet enhancements. So, we're only in the in the business of doing replacement fe fleet right now and not expansion fleet and that did allow us to have a reduction in this dollar amount. And the transit development plan as presented on last Monday um is now being covered by our operator VIA. So, we were able to cut that expense um as well. So, a really great reduction in the in the projected loss for 2026, but um as indicated, we're still not we're generating enough revenue to cover that 15% and cover our capital uh right now, but we are working on um a projection for that. >> Uh Mayor Norton, >> um so the 2028 the 2.78 is that with the 20% assumption or is that still showing the 15? That's the 15. But um if you have read through the tip and this the tip uh Rohog tip that's out for public review right now, um Mandot has awarded us replacement vehicles a substantial amount hit in 2027 and 2028. And so those are those big hits that you see um happening there. And I can go into deeper if anybody has any questions on what those numbers are, but um or class or size of those vehicles, but that's what you see primarily reflected there. you'll see the loss of operating but additionally the large expense of of those replacement vehicles which are necessary to run a transit system. >> Council member Palmer, >> why are you excluding the um link BRT? >> That's a great question and primarily because as of right now, beyond the startup grant, the the pilot grant that we've received for for link, we don't have secured funding from MIDNAD for operations after that grant is. So that's for three years. And so we didn't want that to potentially skew the data in here. Link is primarily is covered through those hopeful MDOT dollars after that, but we don't have those secured. And so we didn't ant we didn't want to if we put that in here, you would see dramatic losses because we're only showing what we know and we don't know that grant is locked in yet. >> Well, there's a council person that likes to say that hope is not a plan. So, um, I would like to see that included. we can provide those updated numbers um but they do skew where we're living right now in this data set and so we just wanted to ensure we're providing what we know um we do anticipate um support from from MIDOT it's but we don't that's not a known because we don't receive those operating dollars until the year like until I just like brought it up to council last week until those are approved >> council member Miller >> and I guess I would just add that a legislative priority of ours league for Minnesota city is uh sustainable transit funding from the state and so we continue to advocate for those. I serve on the uh improving local economies committee. We've had some discussion of that and I I will plan to continue to make sure that hope turns into advocacy turns into plans >> and we have had significant conversations with Mindot and they are aware that we are actively working towards wanting to make sure that we have similar consideration for an outstate bus rapid transit system as there are funding sources similar to what the grant is for the next three years that are available to all of the BRT system that is not outstate. And I just will take a moment to plug that MDOT has been incredibly supportive. They did provide a pilot grant to support the um one month prior to the revenue start date for Link. Actually almost two months prior to the revenue start date of link to cover some of those operations costs that will will hit prior to August 19th. Um, so we are really grateful in the partnership and they have been incredibly collaborative and know that this is an ask and um, if it's any indication and this is probably anecdotal data, but link did receive an entire full page feature and the great Minnesota trans the greater Minnesota transit plan that Mandot just um, adopted. So, uh, it is a highlight of of the system and it's a highlight of our city as well. >> Council member Keane. Yeah, I'm going to just follow up in council member Palmer's thing. I I understand that there is one transit like uh fund at the at the end, but I think it would be misleading to try to reflect BRT in here now, especially I mean I I actually struggle when I look out in 28 and 29 because that is a a Mayo supported thing. So that there probably shouldn't be depending on our metrics, we shouldn't be underrunning it. But the fact that we don't have those federal and state commitments yet, it just would make this less valuable for me to try to look through. Um, but I but again, it's jumping off the page here that you are out of funds in 2028. >> I don't know if I'm cutting to the end of it for you, but [laughter] >> spoiler. Um, uh, so were there any question other questions? >> Uh, Council Member Miller, >> just a point of clarification because you threw out August 19th. That is the the plan start date for link PRT. It's our current plan start date for link BRT. That's what's our agreement with um F um FTA indicates. If construction delays happen, if something were to happen, this definitely something that would be effectively communicated to council and the team. Now, the 19th is a Thursday. Um so, it's likely that we won't implement a service change on a Thursday. Um so, we would likely have links start on a weekend cons um consistent with how we perform service changes right now in the system. And for clarification, when link comes online, that will be a service change. So it'll be treated the same way as as our other but obviously much larger and much bigger, but it will be implemented as a service change. So you'll see other changes to the fixed route system at the same time. >> Yeah. Thank you. Continue. >> So how are we measuring all these things? Um we have kind of isolated four main uh key performance indicators for us to be able to view. Now, the data that we look at is pretty concise for transit. Um, you know, we're looking at what's in JDE, so what's in our our um fiscal monitoring system that the city has, what our operating data is. So, that's our writership and that's our vehicle revenue hours. If you recall, our contract with our operator is based on vehicle revenue hours. It's a contractual hourly rate. Um, and so those are two metrics that we can easily track. And then um it allows us to like these specific KPIs allow us to view the source data in really meaningful ways. And so we don't have lots of diverse data, but we do have a lot of data that needs to be analyzed appropriately. And I would be remiss I did forget this at the beginning. I would like to to thank um my transit team and our finance team as well has helped put together this data. Although um a set of metrics that you see on here, this is months of work and months of collaboration um between our two departments and I just want to give a special shout out to both Lindsay's Lindsy B and Lindsay H um through both departments because they've dedicated a substantial amount of time to bring this to us today and um data drilling isn't um as straightforward as we all think it could be. So So we have four um four proposed or four key metrics that we'll be looking at. As a reminder, this is living data. So, this is data that's updated on a monthly proc month monthly basis. And that's with both our fiscal and our writership data and and um all of that that's coming in. So, I'll walk through each one of those and kind of um explain what you're seeing on those. I had a lot of questions on how how to interpret these um visuals. And again, as we gain revenue through advertising and wrership, they will change these metrics. And so our revenue is not just as you see on there is not just um writership revenue that would be advertising revenue as well. So our first one that we have to look at is our operating revenue and surplus chart. And so you'll see there's an operating that's that light blue line and then the dark blue line as indicated is the CIP and the operating totals. And as as I explained in 2028 and in 2027 we have some substantial CIP projects with the replacement vehicles. So that's where you see that um kind of large dip in there and then that additional dip down in 2029 is based on the assumption that that local match will go up to 20%. So you can see this trend as we're following and so this allows us to really take a look at the um impacts that we're making revenue exclusive or surplus revenue. So obviously the goal is to not be down the goal is to be up. Um so this allows us to really utilize this metric to track it that way. And our next one on here, and probably the one that that has drawn maybe the most amount of questions prior to this meeting, is the annual year-to- date revenue versus target year-to- date revenue versus target year-end revenue. So, these are not additive bars. Um, these are reflective of where we are right now. So, that's the blue bar that you see. The green bar that you see is where we would hope to be trending right now. So that's the the metric that we'd like to be seeing in this is end of July data. So this is the metric that we'd like to be seeing at the end of July. And that gray bar that you see is where we need to be at the end of the year. So we're um if you're just following that trend, it's clear that we're going to be falling a little bit short, but this allows us to to visualize the gap between those. And so the goal is as we're looking at these two bars between the blue and the green bar, you can the blue bar will hopefully some at some point meet the green and then at some point surpass the green. And if it surpasses the green, that indicates that we're in a surplus and not a deficit. So that allows us to track those two metrics as they're going and know what our year-end goal is at the same time. >> Mayor Norton, >> so I want to be delicate about this, but but I'm also wondering, we've had a lot of calloffs. We've had a lot of missed uh trips um this year, not because people didn't want to take the bus, but because the bus wasn't running. >> Um is that part of what we're seeing here? >> So, it could be. Um there's a couple of things. We do always see a decrease in writership during the summer. Um and we are in that that time of year right now. And so, it's hard for us to look at our our writership data and assume one thing or another. And as a reminder, our writers are majority like anonymous and so we don't have the ability to talk to individual writers because their process of purchasing a pass, their process of writing is an anonymous experience. We do we have citywide surveys that happen twice a year. We do know there's an impact of loss of writership because we have missed trips. Um but as an additional reminder, we have around 500 trips a days and on those days of massive mist trips it was 23 to 40. Um so although substantial um a a a smaller percentage then I don't want to I don't want to minimize the impact but that I just want to be clear on what that impact was. >> Council member Dory >> and this might be an antidotal uh question as well but it seems like this summer we had more cool places to be days than typically are normal and what's a revenue loss for one of those days because that might be easier to measure. Yeah. So, we actually track that data through a tablet that's on the buses. Um, and it allows the drivers to push specific buttons. And so, that is tracked the same way if somebody came in and refused to to pay a fair. Um, they we could track that data. And so, it's not technically lost revenue because it was never anticipated revenue. So, we don't it's not they're likely not somebody who was going to be riding the bus anyways. So like it allows us to to determine that number, but it we're we're talking like 20 to 40 individuals. >> So we we still charge someone if they're going to use the bus to commute. You ask specifically, the driver asks specifically, right? >> Okay. >> The rider would come on and say, "I would like a cool place to be." And then the driver would um track that rider. And so it's it's separate data. >> Thank you for that. >> Council member Palmer. >> Well, this isn't going to be new, but the dependability is the number one issue for me. and and you're not meeting that um expectation. And with the largest employer in the town giving away free bus passes, I it's hard for me and you get the revenue. I understand that. But but it's hard for me to believe um that we're going to have an increase in writership when they the largest employer opens up four major ramps. So I I don't see much hope for what you're trying to do other than getting dependability down to be number one issue. And when you say that we only miss 10 or 20 trips, it doesn't matter. But if I'm one of the 10 or 20 trips that are missed, I don't get to work. I don't get home. So now you become undependable. And I preached this many different times in meetings that we've had with you here. So I'm disappointed greatly with the with the lack of dependability. I understand you're new. I understand we have a new operator coming, but it almost seems like we're rearranging the seats on the Titanic and and your numbers don't aren't saying I'm wrong. >> Yeah. Um, and I'll definitely touch on that and I think that's one of the things that VIA has been working really hard on. They have been overhiring for the positions that we're short right now and will be consistently hiring um to fill that gap, but also are utilizing technology to ensure that we have efficient trips and that way we can reduce the amount of vehicles needed, which means we can reduce the amount of drivers needed during peak during those those analysis. And I will say that none of these changes are ones that we can and it's unfortunate and I wish I could change the whole system in two weeks, but we're not in a situation in which that can happen. All of our service changes have to happen in appropriate FTA protocol. We have to announce those. We have to do public engagement. All of those take around 3 months to research and implement. And so even shifting the routes to better fit the needs of the our driver capacity isn't something that we can do in a in a quick like removal of a band-aid situation. But there are specific plans that have been implemented to get us to where we're going. And I do we are still trending in upward ridership regardless of the situations over the past year. >> Council member Miller, >> I don't want to any detail on this in detail, but are we seeing from our partners at Mayo Clinic that their uh transit rider ship is growing or falling? >> I don't know what they're like in terms of >> shuttle ridership no and their shuttle use. Are they adding shuttles or removing shuttles? So with the the oncoming of link, there will be a reduction of shuttles as we service some of the spaces with link that were historically serviced by shuttle service. And I think that the addition on there is I am so proud to say the collaboration and level of of partnership that we've had with Mayo over the past 6 months, it's definitely indicated that they are in support of RPT and they want to to steer more individuals to utilizing RPT, but they understand that we're under the same constraints and we understand theirs. We need to have a reliable service and we're working towards that. Um, and definitely hopeful for the future, but we are I'm very excited about the partnership that we have and and I'll go over some of those as we come up in a few slides. >> But to council member Palmer's question, when they open for new ramps, do they prep do they plan to reduce their shuttle operations because now people are just driving themselves? And that's a a question unfortunately I can't answer because I'm not within Mayo's um operations. >> Continue. >> So this this metric indicates our writership target. And so the the blue bar is where we're at. Um the green bar is where we think we're going to be tracking based on our current trends for the year. So and then that 1.1 almost 1.2 2 million is our target ridership to reach the revenue. Now, that green number and that gray number are they'll move and they'll adjust as our cost per ride adjusts over the course of the year. So, those aren't static numbers either. They're taking into account revenues that's being brought in. So, as um as our cost per ride, so it's easy to think that each each rider pays $2, but that's not true. That's only if they're buying a single fair at full rate. um if they're buying a monthly pass or a ride pass, that's a reduced number. Or another example is our agreement. Our student riders um ride for a reduced rate. And so all of and veterans ride for free. And so all of that has an impact to that that total wrership dollar amount. And this is um as I've affectionately been calling it kind of our doomsday clock. But if we were to make no modifications to the system, but we are and we have been making modifications to the system. If you recall on the slide that I presented in January, we would have been out of money in about two and a half, three years. And so now our projection is about just over four years until we anticipate if no shifts in ridership, if we're trending the way that we're trending, if that that um line graph that we indicated for the KPI stays in that downward trajectory, this would be um this would be where it' be trending. But we don't anticipate that and we've already seen moves in in the contrary. >> Council member Miller. Yeah, just a question since this dashboard is largely a snapshot as you've mentioned. Are you tracking those measures over time and how might we understand improvements? I I think it's great and I I I know that we've seen drastic improvements for this presentation, but again, we're just looking at this snapshot and only comparing time periods for a couple of the measures. So, uh for anybody that looks at this and says this is really bad, right? if if there's a photo taken published online somewhere and somebody sees well four years we're out of money that that's a better state than we were in >> and I just wonder how we're telling that story to the public as well that uh that you and your team are doing great work >> to improve our position >> and I think one of the ways is just providing a constant update on these metrics um these are actually all uh PowerBI and so it's it's live dynamic data um and if if um anybody would like access to that on our council we can definitely provide that um without um admin rights. But um additionally, we will um be providing this monthly to council in our monthly updates um in replacement to the transit report that you have been receiving. I think this provides a better snapshot of what's going on and where we are and you can track that on a monthly basis. >> I just want to say I love this dashboard. You guys did an amazing job. I mean yes it is a snapshot in time but to really have this level of transparency and where we are headed and it it really helps us with our decision making and so I really encourage uh all of our departments to really look at this dashboard and I know I haven't even seen all of it yet but it really is what I'm looking at when it comes to really getting a real clear crisp view overview of uh of the dynamics in that department. So, thank you. >> Great. Well, thank the Lindsies. They worked really hard on it and I appreciate the they're working. Lindsay's back there. [laughter] >> Um so, as we um kind of wrap up these metrics, what are the things that we want to ensure? And I think these are some of the topics that we've we've touched on, but again, increasing of rider confidence. We want to ensure that they are they know that vehicle's coming. They know that bus is coming to pick them up. they know that paratransit vehicle is coming to pick them up and they can depend on it and they know they're going to get to where they need to go when they need to be there. Reliability fits within that as well. And obviously none of this is going without saying that we have our transit development plan coming up, but that doesn't mean we're not doing any analysis of our of our systems before then. Um we've already sent our um December service change to VIA to review for optimization and um efficiency. And so those conversations have have already started and that data has already been shared and it's not even September 1st yet. And then additionally having service changes that are thoughtful and and provide the service that's most effective for our system. Um and we can do that with our partner in VIA. So at this time I'll hand the clicker over to McCll Houston uh to introduce herself and to provide an update on what VIA is planning for the next few years. >> Welcome. >> Thank you. Um just wanted to start by saying thank you for having me. I am super excited to be here and I think VIA as an entire company is really excited for this partnership over the long term. Um I'm going to dive into a little bit of kind of how we look at things over the long term and how we think about planning. To be totally honest, this week and next week and the next week, my team is so focused on making sure that September 1 is smooth and to your point that buses are running as they should be, but we do want to give you a little bit of a peak behind the curtain on what we're doing in more of a long-term approach. So first um we have a team at VIA called VIA strategy. So that's different than who's going to be here every day managing. We have a dedicated uh transit planning and consulting practice that are like true experts in this and it comes with our contract and is part of our partnership that we are available to help and do and support whether on a variety of things whether it's like public engagement full like network resilience strategies um mobility hub and infrastructure planning like really kind of from start to finish working alongside you all to figure out what the best uh long-term plan is for RPT. And one thing that we really believe is that while you do make trade-offs obviously anytime you're planning transit, there are a lot of ways that we've seen and have been able to implement where we're both expanding access and improving efficiency. So kind of a very high level of our core philosophy is that we tend to look at the least efficient routes likely move that into microransit. That way you can decrease costs and increase the coverage. medium efficiency routes, we like to optimize service, make sure we have the right frequencies, the right hours. And then in the most efficient routes, that's where we tend to really invest and improve headways as we see really frequent headways are what drive ridership the most. And kind of the three pillars of how we think about this. Again, there are always trade-offs as we do uh work through this, but we try to balance between the rider experience, efficiency, and coverage. And each of these mean quite a few different things. So for us like coverage as an example isn't just the service area. It's what's the service mode. What are the operating hours, right? Or experience is the booking model as well as stop locations and frequency and wait times. And there just a lot of different pillars that we look at here. Efficiency is cost per trip for you all as our partner, but also productivity and and multimodal coordination amongst all of the different methods of getting people around. And we've taken this approach with quite a few different partners. A few that are highlighted here. one um the first one is Souf Falls uh South Dakota which is actually a relatively similar system to what we have here. We went and did a full network redesign a few years ago uh saw a very significant increase in ridership. I think in the first year it was up about 23%. Um and we were also able to co-mingle microtransit and paratransit which allowed efficiency to increase by 53%. So phenomenal results across the board there. Uh Mobile Alabama is actually launching a full network redesign here I think in about a week or two. Uh, and there was a massive community engagement push behind that piece. It was important for our partner there to make sure that voices were heard. So, we engaged over 2,000 different community members, met with tons of different partnerships. I think that's a playbook that will actually apply very well here where they're very strong partners in the community. Um, and then Salt Lake City, we've done like very deep transit planning with them over a few different modes over the past eight years. So, I think via strategies has a lot of different elements that we can bring. Um, and it's not a one-sizefits-all. It's not here is the playbook and how we do it, but here's how our many playbooks can be applied across different markets as like is going to suit Rochester and and be the best for the future here. >> Thank you, McCall. And um I just want to point out McCall was the one of the leads for the the Mobile Alabama transition as well. So familiar with the space, a lot of familiar situations also um an ATU um unionized uh facility. So just good for additional reference there and and some context. So and as we move through um definitely new and continued partnerships are how we going to be successful in this space as well. So again, to touch on our our really um honored collaboration with Mayo Clinic, I just feel consistently supported by that team and they've been an asset in in ensuring that we can do certain things. And a great example is I'll just jump ahead to the timeline that's on the next slide, but we will be doing a service change in December to move back to the Second Street Transitportation Centers. And that was facilitated through a substantial amount of conversations with the Mayo partners because it the construction for their facilities is is what's kind of in that space. And so we want to ensure that we have that, but they also see the value in us moving back there. So really appreciate our continued collaborations with them. Um in constant conversations right now with UMR to to see how we can facilitate more student and faculty access to Rochester public transit. Um our continued collaboration with RPS and trying to pursue viability in in that. And as we've um brought buses out to John Marshall um and and try to encourage students to ride that, our data for that is really um it it's pretty successful looking. Right now we have around a thousand rides per month for students. And so um although that's not a substantial amount of students, that's about 40 um on a monthly basis, but that's 40 students that were not writing transit before. Um so really interesting data coming out of there. And then the Southeast Minnesota Transit Management Organization that's um getting started up. We had the um steering committee meeting today and so their tagline is your region, your ride. And so that's an opportunity for us to collaborate with uh transit agencies throughout the southeast Minnesota area. and see how they can filter into Rochester in an effective and successful way. Um but also provide transit to to more rural areas of the of the state as well. So a really great um a great asset to have in the in the region. And then [clears throat] uh the the TDM work group uh that's spearheaded by Matt Lynch is an indefinite asset uh to Rochester Public Transit. He is he is collaborating and creating those collaborations. I'll thank him for those continued collab um conversations that we've had with the R. And then as um Amanda gets gets on deck, but really excited about the work that she's doing and how transit can incorporate itself into um her economic mobility plan. Um but I also forgot to put DMC on here. Um we do collaborate highly with DMC as well, especially with the upcoming week without driving activity. And so we'll have a um a learning opportunity for individuals to come out and and experience a bus and get on a bus and and learn what that looks like and um at again at John Marshall, but then um have a fair free day in in conjunction with a week without driving. And then what does the next year or plus look like? So VIA starts next Tuesday. As I've said a few times uh during this presentation, as indicated, we have our next service changes targeted toward December. I know I'd originally hoped that to be in October, but um construction impacts um what facilitated us moving back in a clean way onto Second Street, but through those conversations and collaborations with our internal construction teams and Mayo's construction teams, we we feel good about moving back to the Second Street Transit Center in December. Um and then in January, you'll receive um hopefully an intent to award for our a well prior to that, but our advertising RFP updated will be in January. So that's a substantial increase to what we currently have. have I think right now we have about 15 wrapped buses. Um we're hoping to increase that to 51 which is our entire diesel fleet. Um and then the the electric buses would not be wrapped. Um obviously the link buses won't be wrapped but additionally um the remaining buses would be available if we needed to incorporate them into the link route. So we wanted to keep them unwrapped. Um and but it also looks at increasing maybe the percentage back to the city as well and um uh more advertising in our transit shelters. And so right now we only have advertising in one. So, we're definitely hoping to increase that number as well. Um, summer 2027, bringing on the link BRT mode, um, which will definitely have an impact to our fixed road system and hopefully a very positive way as as individuals are exposed to transit and allowed to experience it in in a um, lowrisk capacity. Um, and then, uh, we'll also in 2027 start the TDP as indicated. There's a lot of things happening and we're still doing ongoing analysis, but we want to ensure that we incorporate data from link into the TDP as well. Um, and then in 2028, we would implement that transit development plan. And as a reminder, that's a five-year outlook. Um, but with VIA and VIA strategies as a partner, um, we there would be again continuing ongoing analysis if that's the best fit for the city as well. >> And now, uh, any discussions or feedback? >> Very thorough. Uh, Council Member Wall, >> thank you. I enjoyed the presentation. Um, I appreciate that we do, did you say two citywide surveys, uh, each year, and I would guess most of those surveys would go to nonriders and some of that data could be helpful. Is there a way to get beyond the anonymity of the current ridership so that we get user data as to uh how we can make the transit system even more uh desirable for ridership? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So, our uh our transit survey goes out with our service changes through PCO. So, it gets blasted to the entire PCO list serve. Um, we typically have pretty good turnout on those, like 500 plus survey responses, some transit writers, some not transit writers. And within those surveys, we're always asking, are you a transit rider? And if they are, it leads to a series of questions. What route do you take? What hinders you in that space? So, we are tracking all of that data. What's interesting is, um, historically, I mean, historically, the last two surveys that I've been a part of, uh, prior to the one that we just did a few weeks ago, um, it was Central Park was a hindrance that we saw on there. it was a harder for them to access where they needed to go because of Central Park. But now that summer has started um it's it's delays. It's construction delays that seem to be the number one um concern on people's plate. But um I will add like we do two surveys a year, but we also encourage individuals to reach out directly to rpt at rochesterm.gov. Um that comes directly to me and uh some of my team and we we keep that data and utilize it for upcoming service changes. So if there's an opportunity to provide input, you don't have to wait for a survey either. >> Maybe another way of asking that is there a requirement for anonymity based on the federal funding or other resources that that hinders us from doing that? >> There is not. Um but I think as as there's more adoption and more utilization of um our current app and future apps, um we could reduce some of that as well. Um currently with the transit app, we have looked at the possibility of pushing out survey questions through that. However, it was very cost prohibitive to add that as a feature. Um, if you're curious of what that cost was, I think it was around $30,000 a year to add survey as an option within the transit app. So, we chose um to maintain with Polo. >> Continue. >> And one more question. Did the uh change uh from a loop system to out and back uh did that change wrership much? We did um at the fir at the jump with the implementation of change did see a reduction in wrership and that's not unexpected. Change is is scary and overwhelming and can be a little bit hard to adapt to and so we did see a slight reduction but we have seen that kind of recover and come up and a reminder the spring service changes were in line with summer which has a reduction of service too. So a little bit hard to track if some of that reduction was just because the weather was nicer too but we did notice a slight reduction. Um, we are grateful for the writers that decided to reach out and ask for kind of how to how to move through that system. And I think it was a good opportunity for my team and myself um to to learn and lean a little bit more into change management as we move through that. Um, we definitely saw it as a positive, but for individuals that have been writing as a loop um it felt overwhelming. >> Council member Keane, did you have a question? >> Yes. Um, >> so first off, I I really do appreciate um your team coming in with KPIs and but also understanding that this is a way to look at it and there's different connections to it, but it almost is almost like looking at the scoreboard than looking at the game. And within the game, it still strikes me as our biggest problems we're still trying to get over is the, you know, the collapse of ridership during COVID. It has not come back. whether that's systemic or something we just have to figure out. Um this idea that we the we got funding help during COVID and now we're coming out of it and that's clearly the the main problem when you look at this. I still can't get over the fact that our director called it a doomsday clock but [laughter] we got to get past that. Um >> I'll try I'll try. >> But I mean are we looking at more the system as a like are there any other systemic problems? I mean, I've always heard that the Rochester population with a 55 mile spread just can't do public transit in an efficient way. Uh, and that's why our system is sort of supported by the park and rides and the other things is like catch- can, but they're not >> paying for themselves. is have we looking at it that way or because because I'm still looking at this whole BRT as a major major change and I'm just wondering if the whole route system we have right now with hub and spoke and everything coming to downtown has got to change or is there I I don't want to try to do a strategy thing here but are those the kind of things we're thinking of because I don't want to just look at the scoreboard. I I want to kind of make sure we're understanding the game. >> Yeah. And and the answer to all of those questions is yes. We're that's one of the reasons why we saw a lot of value in having VIA come on as a partner, but I think there's additional opportunities and we're looking at um and I I did leave this off of and I apologize off of the timeline, but the new North Broadway park and Ride location will provide an opportunity for us to diversify the transit hub. And if you don't need to go all the way to downtown, you don't have to anymore. And so, we're going to be looking at that and implementing some effective change in in what our service area can do and what those those um transit hub areas look like as well. But we are looking at it very holistically looking at other partners looking at what other systems are doing. But um VIA is doing some incredible things with data and I think um we kind of glossed over it but I think it's important to mention some of the the ridership issues that we've had with paratransit service as well. Um and VIA has been able to analyze our current current vehicle capacity and our current driver capacity and determine that in a lot of situations we wouldn't need to call overflow rides. We just aren't booking in an efficient manner. Um and so they can look at that and really um look at is everybody going to the same place? Okay, how do we coordinate that ride so it makes sense and we can pick up multiples and drop them off. So they've already started conversations with those those main drop off locations um you know um like elderly centers and um facilities that that bring in a lot of individuals and how can we more efficiently drop people off. So those are all things that have already started before September 1st has even come but also before VIA was even on board. um our transit planner um Sandre Abuzza, if you see her name, she did get married, so it's different. She didn't leave. Um but, uh she's been she's been having a strategic outlook on this prior to even Via's coming on board. >> Yeah. Well, I'm glad to see the micro discussions coming to the discussion. I I think VIA does bring a lot to the table more than just a that that sort of not just operational partner, but also having that experience. But I I also want to sort of vote for not so much asking what our customers watch, but watching what they do >> and this whole thing with the Mayo shuttles and how they got put in place. I mean, and and then we're going to try to figure that out. In the meantime, BRT comes in and I think it's going to change behaviors depending on who gets the 2500 parking passes and who gets something else. But I I I am worried about this system because I I I not just the you know the wrership thing with working at home the whole the fin the funding thing but it still is looking at Rochester as this 58 mile place that we're trying to do public transit for 150,000 people it's at is it a a winner or do we need to do something much more >> focused >> and and that's I I know that Mr. Yatser wanted to jump in on something. [clears throat] >> Thank you. Um, sorry Rachel, please jump back in here, but I just wanted to to take a different spin to council member Keen's question as well. So, first of all, I'll just start by saying Rachel has been and her team have been so focused on this and you can see the impact. I'm excited about the ideas VIA brings to improve the service in other ways and grow ridership. But you asked about the scoreboard and so I want to maybe go the flip side of that for a moment and just share that one of the things that I'm always talking with Rachel about and she's always talking with her team about is watching these scoreboard numbers because the reality is um the the uh consistency and the um the reliability of our of our service must improve or we will have to make drastic changes. And so one of the reasons that we're watching this so closely is because if the ride if the ridership drops due to inconsistent or unreliable service, we have backup plans that we can reduce service such that we then do have enough drivers to deliver the service more reliably. So that's the flip side of the answer and I know that Rachel and her team are focused on and will get us there without having to take that drastic step and and the VIA team. But I just want to put that out there that that is the other the other side of that coin. And if we can't fix this the right way, then the other way is to just drastically reduce service so that we can have reliable service because reliability is a must. >> Yeah. No, I appreciate that and I don't want to belittle the because I really do appreciate have KPIs but yeah I I I guess the other part of this the underpinning of this is this idea of the number of people who are so dependent and I don't mean just people trying to get to their jobs but people running businesses that this is the way this stuff works and if if we fail on it it really is going to drive a lot of other problems that that I just don't want to have to deal with. >> Yeah. And I'll say and I I hope my team nods behind me, but one of the things I consistently say is we're looking at numbers, we're looking at dollars, we're looking at metrics, but all of those are reflective of actual people that are trying to move around their daily life. And if they're maybe they're going to work, but maybe they're going to appointment, maybe they're going to visit their family. And I think there are things that we have within our system that don't provide that experience either. And so what are the ways that we can really meet people where you where they are? And I think that's when we're looking at service changes and that's when we're looking at marketing when it comes to transit. is transit has a different spin on it. Like we are we are shifting our system to meet people where they are, not asking people to meet us. And so there's it's a little bit of both. There might be some last mile conversations in there as well, but um we really want to provide a system that works for people and not force people to manipulate their lives to really work for our system. >> Council member Palmer, >> you mentioned the park and ride, but we have the park and ride right now. You're just replacing the one that's at the Haley Center. and and in 2019 we had over 2 million riders. The city of Rochester hasn't grown that much. We're down to 600,000 600 uh thousand uh riders. Right now, the city hasn't grown that much. And so I I don't like the idea that oh gez we're too big and we can't survive. We had two million riders. Something happened to those two million riders. And I think that Mr. Yeter is right on the number and I've said it 20 times is if you're not going to be reliable, they're not going to use you. and and I don't care who's running the the ship if you don't have reliability. I'm not a fan of your microtransit. We did a pilot program. It was $285 a rider um um cost and I don't know who thinks that's cons that good of a number, but um um if that's what we're going to be bringing to it to it that that it does not work. Yeah, I would ask for us not to look at that microtransit um pilot as an example of what microtransit systems look like in other cities because it doesn't doesn't mimic what we would see in in similar urban systems. >> Well, pilot and that's what the dollar mall was. >> Okay, we've got we've got four people now that want to speak. And just to be clear, uh, council, we are, um, uh, over on this item and, uh, we will be kind of pressed to, uh, on the next one. So, I I've got Mayor Norton. I've got, uh, I've got, um, Council Member Oh, okay. I've got Council Member uh, Frederick. So, uh, go ahead, Mayor Norton. And let's be brief. I want to end this topic. It's an interesting topic and I appreciate it. Um, I had a question maybe more for for um, >> thank you. Um, the point has been made that we've seen a decrease in writership and that is true and we know that the pandemic was part of that. I don't know if it was all of it. I'm wondering since you do uh, services in other cities, is what we're experiencing unusual or is what we're experiencing happening across the country? I think there were hits across the country. I think the numbers that we're seeing here are a little bit more drastic than in other locations. My guess is part of it here is the reliability piece. I think we do see major hits with reliability. So that's obviously like our our number one priority to fix. And then some of the integrations with the Mayo system is my understanding. Um and those have probably had a a good chunk of the impact as well. So I think similar but maybe more exaggerated. And I'll say that the timeline is is a little misleading when it came to CO impacts to our system because it was also when our IBM parking ride came offline and I think that would be um a miss for me to not mention that now. That did reduce a lot of our ridership within the system. >> Council member Frederick's. >> Yeah. Do you have the updated uh per rider cost per ride at this point? I I heard it a few months ago what it was, but what are we sitting at now? >> Yeah, I can pull that up. Um, it's a dollar. Um, of course I closed my computer and then you asked. Um, I can pull that data up. >> My password. [laughter] >> I know. I got it. I got it the first time. Um, >> now while you are pulling that up and uh, council member Miller, if you can make it brief, we will let you ask your question while she's pulling up the number. >> A request then for VIA because you operate in the Sou Falls market. You I I was just looking at the numbers. There are nearly 200,000 people over 81 square miles, a very similar population density to us. you've done drastic route redesign, microransit integration. Are there materials that you could share with the council about kind of what you did in that market and what impacts you've seen because I I suspect that that's just going to be something that's quite unfamiliar and would be a helpful resource and how we understand how your involvement might change the prospect for our system. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think at a high level it was like decrease the the routes that were inefficient, add micro and increase frequencies on uh more efficient routes. But we have tons of materials that we'd be happy to provide. >> Got a number for us? >> It's a $140. >> All right.$140 per >> per ride. And I think it's important to have that clarification too. Uh a rider is not a ride. And when we present numbers and we present data, that's data based on rides. And so that's not that could be one person riding multiple times. >> I should have been more clear. My question is what's it costing us per ride? >> Oh, I can also give you that number. >> Thanks, Lindsay. $164. >> There you go. >> Good. Well, thank you both very much. Welcome again. Good luck next week uh with the uh roll out and uh we will take a six minute break. What is the wrong episode? [laughter] They made a lot, right? I think the writers [laughter] how many writers have gone to private brows. building. >> It wasn't here, but it Yeah, it's a >> they're increasing capacity. [laughter] >> Yeah, let me run up there. Uh, but I just want to warn the council we may run over our 6:30, but we're not going to take it out on Amanda. So, uh, take it away. >> I will I will do my best to get us out of here by [laughter] 6:30. So, wonderful. Uh, yeah. Council President, council mayor. Um, thank you so much for your attention this evening. I know it's been a long evening. Um, but I I met some of you during my um start in the city, but my name's Amanda Lightner. I'm the economic mobility program specialist. This is a brand new role that started in February. So, today tonight, we're going to give you a six-month update or progress update on economic mobility work to in to support inclusive growth. um sharing key findings and lessons learned as we're identifying emerging areas of focus as this work moves from discovery into action phases. So, we'll bring this slide back up at the end, but tonight we'll be seeking your feedback on the emerging direction of this work to inform its continued development, especially as we're moving into more in-depth stakeholder engagement and community co-design process. [snorts] So I wanted to start tonight by providing the shared definition of economic mobility to ground this conversation. So when we're talking about economic mobility, we're just saying it's the ability of someone to improve their well-being over time, going from where they are now to a greater state of financial security and opportunity. So that can be at an individual level or intergenerational. I also really like this framework provided by the National League of Cities where you can see a transition through stages of economic stability, security, and well-being. Um, that's not always a linear process, but it helps you see what's involved in those stages. Um, and also shows that this is a very individualized process that involves multiple systems coming together to influence these outcomes. So, why are we talking about economic mobility? Now, every week you come in and talk about growth that's going on in the Rochester community. However, this growth doesn't equal the same opportunity access for all um residents. So, really, when we're adding economic mobility into the conversation, we're just saying let's have improved coordination, alignment, and s and solutions building across internal and external uh systems to get better outcomes for residents. I want to note too when we're talking about economic mobility tonight, we are not saying that the city is leading and owning all of these processes, we'll be very specific and you've seen in your slide deck where the city where there's been specific areas where the city can um lead, support, and inform that work. And we're seeing this very much something that needs to be done in partnership with um organizations in the community. So you talked about economic mobility as a part of economic development um a few weeks ago. So I'm not going to take too much time here, but um economic development is looking at growing the economy. Economic mobility is saying who can actually participate in that growth and what are their barriers to accessing it. So when we consider economic mobility, that's a more inclusive look at economic development and economic opportunity access. In addition, the city of Rochester received this grant from the I from ICMA last fall to kind of stand up this work, identify mobility areas, align stakeholders, and develop pilot work. So, we're part of a national network of communities that gets to work on this kind of together, which has been really helpful. Um but after this grant is done really what we want to do here is lay the groundwork to align systems connect work to support in sustain inclusive economic opportunity and economic development as we move through this grant and beyond um into sustainability. So I mentioned in the beginning that this position is new but economic mobility work has already been happening both outside of the city or excuse me inside the city and outside through um external partners. How we've been thinking about land use, transportation, economic development and housing. Those systems are all coming together to influence economic mobility outcomes for folks in our community. So this isn't about doing new work. It's saying let's be intentional about how this work spans different departments in the city, different work with partners, how residents are experiencing the interaction of those systems and where really small changes lay layering on that economic mobility lens could have different outcomes for folks. So this is an overview of the work that's been done to date since I got started in February through to the end of this year. So we've taken a very intentional datadriven approach really to understand systems and constraints do extensive engagement with stakeholders and understand and uncover data and really the intent with all of this is to be very mindful about where the city can have the most meaningful impact in collaboration with the work that's already taking place to be additive. So the first two stages of this work really looked at deepening our understanding of economic mobility challenges with within the community through a variety of ways. I won't go through all of these here, but a lot of external stakeholder engagement, workshops, um, data discovery, and through this work, we uncovered over 30 areas specifically impacting economic mobility in Rochester, and then worked with stakeholders and key leadership to prioritize these down to four mobility areas where the city has unique opportunity to add value and working towards narrowing that down to one specific focus area for work under this grant. So this is showing the outcomes of that narrowing work um through engagement with stakeholders and city team members to elevate the four economic mobility areas from those original 30 where that were identified as most impactful to residents opportunity access and specifically where the city had some action lever um to lead support or influence the work which is shown here um through these different colors. So, I'm not going to go through uh this with you tonight. Um you're all very aware of work that's being done in connected and reliable transit, affordable housing supply where the city supports. Um and these two other economic mobility areas that were elevated are areas more where the city would influence through bringing stakeholders together through policy um datadriven approach um and systems level alignment. So even with narrowing into those four areas, that's still quite a lot of work um to be done. So what we're doing right now in this next stage is more in-depth and targeted stakeholder and partner engagement, working with local experts, and diving deeper into data sets to get to a much more detailed and prioritized econ singular economic mobility focus area um for work under the MMA grant. So we use this deci decision matrix and conversations with stakeholders and leadership to start narrowing start that narrowing process for the ICMA grant across those four general economic mobility themes. Specifically, we were looking at the level of current momentum leadership both inside and outside of the city in these different spaces as well as the impact of grant resources to move the needle in these areas. Through this analysis, conversations with stakeholders and leadership, career readiness, and workforce systems alignment was chosen for further exploration for pilot work under this grant. Completely recognizing that all four of these areas are highly interconnected and important to economic opportunity access and work will continue with the goal of increased connection, alignment, and focus collaborations to move towards that more sustainable and long-term economic opportunity access. uh before you go off of that slide and and I really appreciated this uh look at this. Um so with the current momentum for career readiness at moderate and level of leadership, is that what you're looking at? is is uh focusing on bringing more me momentum and what does that look like and and having the city take a higher level of leadership. >> Yeah, that would be correct. From our conversations, there wasn't really a lot of city bandwidth dedicated toward um career readiness and workforce system alignment both with work being done in the city and alignment with external partners on work already being done. So, we weren't playing a huge role in that to date. So, so the plan is to play a more a bigger role, a more visible role. >> That's correct. Yep. >> Okay. because and you and I have talked and I've mentioned this to Miss Steinhauser as well is I think the connections with our largest employer here in Rochester and really understanding those pathways that they use and then taking our position as the city in making making sure that those pathways are clear to to our residents and neighbors so that there is a pathway for the residents of Rochester and Homemstead County. >> Yeah. No, absolutely. And we'll dive into those deeper conversations as this work moves forward. Yeah, absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Okay. [sighs and gasps] Okay. Um so to start kind of understanding what's going on in the career readiness and workforce space, we did a deeper dive into um labor force data with the support of our partner at DED and really we were just looking at occupations that were growing the most quickly in the area if they were actually creating economic mobility for folks. Um so to do this we examined wages, household costs or households that these supported and education barriers to get into those occupations and found that they segmented into these groups uh shown here on the slide. Um with only some of these occupations actually supporting economic mobility based on this data and actually the majority likely supporting more stability but not economic advancement. Um I'm not going to spend too much time here but we actually looked at the data and asked who is accessing these mobility occupations and you can see there's um distribution um not equal distribution. So this will be further explored through uh community engagement and resident voice to understand this more in depth. So as I mentioned the city is not intending to own this work. We're not we don't want to be a workforce development provider. Um, we fully recognize that this is a communitywide and system spanning work that needs to be done in partnership uh with others in the community. This map is meant to be a preliminary look at some of the partners working in this space. And many of these have been engaged um to date in preliminary discussions around economic mobility challenges that they are seeing and that's showing up um with the people they serve. Uh, council member Doring, >> just for clarification, are those representative organizations or is that the exhaustive list organization? >> This is very preliminary. >> Okay. >> Yep. Needs to be further explored with engagement with these folks. >> So, from this early stage kind of preliminary engagement with folks in the workforce development space, this has also been helpful to start to create an asset map draft very much still in draft form. Um and this can help us start to understand the resonant experience across the ecosystem. How these pieces connect together um where people enter the system and where gaps and friction can be could be occurring. So from this labor market data and these stakeholder conversations that's kind of converging around these two main um focus areas more in-depth analysis of career pathway access barriers and household stability barriers. Um, so so far the data has been telling us what's happening. Now more in-depth stakeholder engagement and adding in that resident voice is going to tell us why that's happening and allow us to lead toward um more in-depth codees and solution generation with the community. So that kind of leads us to where we are now. So maybe getting us to 6:30. We'll see. But uh getting wrapping up the end of this um refined stage where we've kind of narrowed in on this specific economic mobility focus areas. um leading into community engagement and co-design to better understand the specific barriers that are occurring in that space and add in the resident voice to explain why this is happening. While this is all occurring, we continue to engage with national experts at ICMA. Um continue to have more in-depth conversations with stakeholders to have more um in-depth and refined conversations in these space. >> Miss Lightner, can you hold >> Oh, when you're done. >> Okay, pretty much done. Um and then yeah, continue to work to do work across these um four primary priority mobility areas. >> Council member Frederick's, >> did you get through it? >> Yes, we were at the end. [laughter] >> So, I enjoyed my visit with you. It was nice of you to come down and visit. Um and what what I started thinking about after you left is she'll go through all of her people. I wonder what her like biggest cliche word here. Aha moment will be here. This is a front burner thing. I think we need to look at I'd like to hear what that is. >> I think what has come to mind quickly to me is that [sighs] we have a lot of people in this space doing really great work and it's just fragmented and residents often don't know about it. So I feel I'm not saying that all the solutions are there. I'm saying we have some great gems to work from and we just need to connect those pieces together to make a more cohesive pathway for residents. >> Yeah. We used to go down to city hall, everybody did in person and talk to somebody and then they'd say, "Yeah, go here or go there." Now people are sitting there at home on their phone surfing on where do I go? Where do I go? >> And I think that gets to the point like when you know where to go, it makes it so much easier. like you just have that, you know, that access that other people don't who don't know it. So, to me, that's a huge piece of this is how can that be equitable to more people to know how to navigate these pathways. >> Maybe the point I'm making, I meant just to say city hall, it was anywhere. You went andorked in person and you talked to people and you made connections, you could see it, taste it, feel it, and and you know, get pointed in the right direction. And >> quite frankly, it's almost a lost art at this point. So, >> thanks >> administrator zones. >> Could I just also offer that I wanted to recognize that Amanda is right around her six month mark and she's done an amazing job to bring us to this point. Um although she's been in the city of Rochester at large for much longer. Um, I think that a lot of work condensed down into a few slides that help us to then focus in on to your point what could actually hopefully move the needle to a degree in helping connect people to existing resources or understanding what the gap is. But just want to say thank you to her for doing all of this in it feels like way longer to me, but it's only been six months. And she also honor her first foray into at a study session actually uh can be flexible >> master class on flexible study session presentation >> a bridge her presentation so uh council member Keen >> yeah thanks for being here um and again I did meet with you I appreciate getting there's something about this that I get suspicious of with the idea of like economic mobility but I really like the thing you start out with and it started out with economic stability moving to economic security moving to like building wealth and I almost thought it missed the first one is like at risk [clears throat] starting out at risk and I am still unclear if like I mean I know this is not like I really appreciate the city's not trying to take this and here we're going to do this but if you had I if there you were going to do your key metrics would it be based on the transit system would get better in support or the housing system would get better in support or would it be we've like dramatically improved the lives of seven families. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I understand and appreciate that point and that's what we're getting to now with leadership in these areas, housing, transit, um to develop more of those metrics. Um but yes, I think to your point, um we're in the process of thinking more in depth about what that will be. Is it, you know, increased ridership? Is it are we looking at household cost burden? So, we're we're having those conversations now >> and and I think they're all contributors, too. But then and I and I always get caught up with this mobility because I look at this mobility as being able to um you know kind of build on what I build a career or build something. Um my other comment is and this is getting getting personal lately but I don't like to see the first time we talk about um economic mobility we talk about let me help you start a business because 85% of us we get a W2. That's what our careers are. And to say we're going to start out with entrepreneurship is is a wonderful thing. And hopefully, you know, we could it some people really do well with that. But it it is ignoring the majority of the population. Um, and I and I want to I I like that thing when the mobility occupations pay 50% or above. How do you get people to start start not just like saying like I just need a job. I got to go get the first job and try to get them to build skills in those first jobs to get them to the next and get them to that. And that's the mobility piece that really interests me in this. I I uh I it is daunting though to think about how to go about it. So that's my >> I just and I I couldn't agree with council member uh Keen more and that's why I focused on our largest employer because I think you know there are those that want stability but a lot of our employers provide wages increases benefits. part of those benefits are are professional development and education and others that can then lead them to that economic mobility. So I what I was very excited about hearing from you is your answer to council member project's qu question which is you know the connections need to be there and if we can be a conduit for helping make those connections between those agencies that work in this area workforce st workforce mobility or workforce I don't want to say development because that's your other one but uh the and the employers. I think then that is how I would see success in uh in our part of it is is making connections that can be lasting. >> Uh Council Member Doring. >> Yeah, I wanted to make sure I addressed the three questions you put on your last slide. Uh I I like the prioritized economic mobility areas if I'm reading those on pa on slide 19 of your presentation. uh focus area one career pathway access barriers and household stability barriers. I would I would love to uh see uh some in-depth uh work in in the trades uh what that means for folks and economic stability and long-term career pathways. Uh I'm fascinated by the work of of equity across our our economic space. So, I know that we kind of glossed over for lack of time over the the racial slide in here. I'm interested in a more equitable um workforce across uh racial barriers as well as gender barriers. I'd love to see see that information and uh for me um success metrics would be a more equitable workforce. So, um, obviously that for me includes across those, uh, ethnic or racial barriers as well as the gender, uh, gap in in in some of our occupations. So, I hope that's helpful. >> Very I appreciate that. Thank you, >> Council Member Wall. >> Thank you. Uh I had to unless I missed it previously in the presentation. I had to look up what Alice means uh from the uh but I what >> United Way. >> Yeah. Um survival occupations. I presume in economic mobility we're not uh simply trying to eliminate uh I mean that represents a huge part of our workforce. uh we will always need >> servers, food prep, uh how do how do how does that work into the economic mobility ladder? >> Yeah. No, I fully recognize that point and I I think this is just meant to say that based on the data, if this was the only income coming into a household, it would not really be able to support even a single adult. So I think it's it's the understanding that what that means and that overall um that would [clears throat] have to be supplemented in some other way. So I think going back to I can't quite remember um when the point was made but thinking about how people transition through those different stages but kind of just recognizing what that means to be in some of those occupations and that there are other um supports that those people are needing. And if I if I could add and you know Amanda you um correct me if I'm wrong. So you're absolutely right like we are hospitality based community right and so um but when you think about economic mobility um income and pathway is one component of economic mobility and where we influence and directly lead are in the housing pathways the transportation pathways and so again thinking about what the what's the work that we do that um if someone's not going to get out of that survival occupation how might we um provide support for that household thinking about those other pathways. >> Council member Miller. >> Yeah, just going through the the the questions for feedback. Yes, these resonate. Um don't necessarily have anything uh to add from the current framework. I I would love to know, especially looking at slide 20 and even beyond December 2026, at what point the council should expect check-ins or updates in this process. I mean, often when we do development processes, we'll have stars of this is when we should expect to hear back next and here would be the scope of that. So, helping us understand how we're involved um moving forward. And then I think part of success uh would look like having built out metrics much like we had in the transit space so we understand what we're measuring and so that we can track that over time. I think the scorecard of our public transit system was a good um part of what measuring success in one of these areas would look like or part of it. And I would just wonder how we're adding these tangible ways that um you know equitable workforce is based on a specific set of measures >> and helping us understand how we're measuring progress um because otherwise it can feel quite vague >> and uh intangible to understand whether we're making progress or not for whom. >> Yeah. No, and I completely um appreciate that and that's part of what we're working on now as we narrow in that focus how we can get more um what's the right word to put this stepping stones of of kind of those metrics because economic mobility right is is generational. It's maybe 5 10 years. So that's what we're working on right now as we narrow in that focus to identify more specific metrics um that could be used. Um, and I think along with that, you know, we can work alongside leadership to provide kind of that glide path for you all and keep you all informed as this moves forward. >> I want to go back to um something council member Doring said and he mentioned the trades and I look at you know the construction trades and you know plumbers, carpenters, electricians. There is one we have a need. We're a growing community and there is economic mobility in those professions as people get furthered licensed and through apprenticeships and so uh and I didn't see that up there and so is there a reason or is it something that you can add into I saw repairs? Oh. Um, that's probably just because it wasn't in one of the >> stability and I, you know, yeah, I think I think the construction trade should be something that you certainly should look at and and look at as a major piece of our economic uh >> No, I appreciate that. And I will say these were meant to more be more like wage brackets more than definitive these are the specific occupations that we'll be focusing on. So I I completely appreciate that. Yeah. And again, this is a finite period of time with this grant to be able to bring us to a certain point, but part of the next exploration process that that Amanda is sharing about also there's continuing adjustment and um refinement for the next few years of the Rochester public school strategic plan and I know they're focusing on some of that. So, this isn't intended to like replace all of those other things. Um, but also in order to have an outcome that's necessary in order to deliver on the grant requirements. It can't we can't boil the ocean either. >> Doesn't mean the ocean won't still exist. >> Yep. >> We can't keep boiling it later. >> All right. Well, thank you. Great presentation in more ways than one. It was brief. It was uh worthwhile. and uh you got some new information from us. Appreciate this time. >> All right, with that uh study session schedule. >> Uh thank you, council president, council members. Just a quick reminder, this coming Monday is the fifth Monday of August. So, you will not have a study session or a council meeting. So, um in case that's something that you're going to feel sad about, get prepared for that now. Um and then the next study session following your [clears throat] September 9th, which is a Wednesday council meeting, which is the week of Labor Day, um is the city administrator's recommended supplemental budget. So, additional feedback from what we um heard here today, as well as um continuation of the discussion of those last slides and um action plan update as well as a credit card service fee. So, lots of um aligned type of activities. Um then just did also want to point out forthcoming later in September, we have um some updates on stormwater quality credit transfer policy. You've seen that once before. Um as well as mode shift and um housing access update. >> All right, we are adjourned.