Okay, I suppose we're starting. >> No news is good news. >> Oh, we're going. >> Hello. >> Statement already. >> Great. >> All right. Uh, let's call the meeting to order. Um, Sarah, would you mind reading the roll call? >> Absolutely. Laura Greenley Karp >> here. Sarah Zaraka >> here. >> David Andren is excused. Lloyd Grochek >> here. >> Ben Hansen is excused for tonight. Angry Kohler >> here. >> Rachel Lucas is excused. And Cassidy Schwar >> here. >> Okay. Um can I get a motion to adopt the agenda? >> I'm Go ahead. >> So moved. >> A second. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I. >> All those opposed. Okay. A motion for the approval of the minutes. I make a motion to approve the minutes. A second. >> Second. >> Discussion. All those in favor? >> I. >> All those opposed. Great. Meeting open to the public. Does anybody want to speak? My hair is a skew. Okay. No one from the public. Um, it looks like Are we following the same order? We want to start with Ava. >> If Ava's ready. >> Okay. in a couple. >> It's all good. >> We'll take this time to review our >> Yeah. >> additional pieces of information. >> Oh, student build house. >> We have Hi. >> Hello. >> Hi. >> It's good to see you all. >> You, too. I'm wondering is is there a way for us to get it on the screen in front of us? >> Oh, >> yes. Okay. He's going to give it just so we can There we go. Perfect. Awesome. >> Fantastic. Um so it's good to see you guys all again. Um I am really excited to talk about this past year's events and also 2026 events and um go over our expectations and just chat about what we want to see. So first I really want to thank you guys um for your time and hard work dedication to the city making it a great place to live. Um I really appreciate your help at events. I can't do everything and having you guys there to I know that you guys will back me up and um help wherever you can really makes a huge difference. So, um I'm really looking forward to working with you in 2026. So, I'm going to go over kind of what we did in in 2025, a commissioner shout out, some highlights, areas to improve, and then looking towards 2026. Um so, if you have questions, you can either just like be like, "Oh, what about that, Ava?" or we'll have an open discussion um about what I'm talking about. So, first I want to shout out um Ingred Kohler because um and Rachel Lucas. Um so, Ingred Cooler actually attended five city events and she helped at everyone she attended. >> Yay. >> Um and then second to Rachel when you're watching this. Um she attended nine city events and helped at six. >> So, thank you guys so much. Um I really appreciate your cheerful, helpful, um can do attitudes. Um just yeah thank you so much. So um here are the events that your commission was a part of this year. So we started with fire and ice in February. Um then we went to parks cleanup in May and then we did three workout in the parks in the summer which was new for us. Three music in the parks throughout the summer. Um two movie in the parks in August. The fall roundup parade. Um the first ever uh food shelf event. And then upcoming is the Holly Jolly night in December. >> I have a question. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> What was the food shelf event? >> Um yeah, so we tried something kind of new. Um basically it was like a come and give back. Um and so we just essentially went in on a Saturday and helped clean the food shelf, kind of give it a spruce up and it was kind of it was open to the community. Um and then yeah, some of our our commissioners and um council members came and helped with that. >> Yeah. So, it was really good. It was a feel-good event. It was It was pretty small, like probably 12 people, but we had pizza afterwards and it was lovely. >> Yeah. >> Um, okay. So, biggest wins of 2025. Um, these are my top three. So, the first was the Silver Lake Beach party. Totally blew my expectations out of the water. You know, in 2024, the music and the parks were our least attended events. They were pretty expensive. And so I was like, I don't know, like is this worth it? Um, but changing it to be at Silver Lake with what we had and people were there. It was super happening. Um, a lot of people really enjoyed it. So really looking forward to that again this year. And then the workout in the parks, I think we reached a new demographic of people that um, especially at Hazy Park with all those people there already, it's such a happening park in the evenings in the summer. It just was a perfect fit. Mhm. >> So, I'm really looking forward to that as well. And then the kids movie night as well. Um just growing numbers uh with that as too. So, um what worked was using multiple different parks. You know, I think we had talked about not just using Casey, but utilizing different parks and having them at different places and that really worked well. Um also leaning into event themes. I think having strong themes where people can get on board really works well. And then trying new ideas. I think that um us being creative and trying seeing what works and what sticks um really did pay off this year. So, some areas to improve. Um so, I think fire and ice, I was expecting more people. I was hoping for more people. Um but what I'm going to try differently this year is having the hot chocolate by the ice rink so that it's more like a cohesive event. Um I want to pre-make luminaries, which if you guys want to help, totally down for that. Um, so I'm probably going to pre-make them at um, public works building, but essentially it's like blocks of ice that you put the candle inside and you can make different shapes and then kind of line them up around. >> Is it actually a candle? >> Yeah. Um, I think you can do different things like glow sticks and stuff, but I think candles look the best. >> Yeah. So, >> going to try that. And then, yeah, because we did this event in the past, I have now pictures and videos and stuff that can promote it better this year. So, hopefully that will just It was a great event. It's just small date. >> Uh we I think we saw February 7th or 6th. Yeah, >> sixth. Thank you. >> So, um I know that it was probably not very attend well intended because it used to I know it used to be at HY. We changed it to Casey because there's no longer a skating rink at HY, which is unfortunate because Hy would be the perfect spot. So, just working against kind of that as well. Um and then the parks cleanup day. Um, my suggestion is that potentially you guys make a subcommittee for all things May cleanup month. >> Yeah. >> Um, just because, you know, park cleanup days can be a great thing, but they can also be really disappointing and discouraging if nobody shows up and you're like, "Ah, I'm just in this park by myself." So, um, I would love to work with you guys in terms of like what you guys need, coordinating, helping you guys to succeed in that because I think it could be a really good day. You also just had a bad uh Saturday. It was rainy and cold and wet and dark. So hopefully better weather, but I think that um creating a subcommittee would be helpful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That used to be bigger and I would love to be in a on a subcommittee helping to make that, you know, reconnect the what >> it it there is a lot of interest in the community. I just think we need to figure out how to communicate with people better maybe or or I don't know it used to be bigger. Um so uh I would like to help out on that. >> I think we can re-engage students again too. That was like one that they did regularly and I think maybe just cuz coach turnover or like other things I think that would be a really easy thing to um have happen so that >> there's more help. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that was a nice way >> for high school students to kind of see what we were all about and uh just easily >> work in their, you know, just service hours. >> Yeah, for sure. Exactly. >> And what I found this year as well is that the more connections I have with the high school, the easier it is in the future to reach out to the same students who are really helpful and be like, "Hey, you helped with this thing and you were great. Can I have you help at this thing as well?" >> Same with then they bring their teachers and then I have that connection with the teachers. So this year was actually really good and so yeah if we can find the science you know fizzed teacher that's like absolutely I can rally some students would love that. So totally on board. Um okay so looking to 2026 um you guys have the the colorful sheet. This is not obviously set in stone. Um I am going to be updating it as I book people. Um, so I will swing back to you guys and update you probably January, February. Um, because that's usually when I have things kind of more figured out. Um, so yeah, not uh set in stone, but just a good thing to have in the back of your mind. So um, >> this time capsule thing is really cool. >> Yeah. >> Will you tell us about that? >> Absolutely. >> Um, okay. >> Oh, >> um, lost my spot. Okay. Um, yeah, the time capsule thing. So, there is a 50-year-old time capsule that is buried in front of the Boy Scout Museum. >> And so, we are working with the historical society and the Boy Scout Museum kind of making this and it's also the semi-quincentennial of America. So, 250 years. So, as America, they have some things going on. Um, and so I think this can be our like this can be our thing. Um, so basically what I'm envisioning, what the historical society has kind of laid out and what I'm envisioning is that we pull out the pulling out the time capsule during a car show >> so people can see it. We can have media there and then the Thursday after um then they're going to have it all displayed >> all the things inside the Boy Scout Museum. And so my suggestion is that one of our least attended events is the adult music in the park. And so I would like to combine that um with this event, have a band playing um with the opening of the artifacts, kind of have a throwback theme, >> like a dress up, whatever. >> Totally. Very cool. >> So um really excited for that. I think that that'll be a good use of our money um just to have that be kind of a bigger event. We're also working with, you know, the historical society and the Boy Scout Museum to make this happen. So, um, it should be really cool. >> Really cool. >> Yeah, it's really fun. >> Are you working with Sue? >> I am. Yeah, the whole historical sucks. >> Ingred, I hope there's not like disco balls at leisure. >> Seeing disco balls and totally. >> Oh, yeah. That that could be so fun. Like >> communitywide like time machine sort of like theme, you know, like >> and let's dress the part. That could be so fun. I know my husband grew up in North St. Paul and I know there are many people um uh he graduated from high school um in 1976. So that's I'm not going to say his age, but anyway. Um anyway, I'm sure that he and other people of his age would be very interested in what would and might even have memories of the time capsule being, you know, put in the in buried. Yeah, I think that would be very cool. Like, um, seeing if there are any people who actually were there at the, you know, they could be there at the unearthing. Yes, >> that would be really, really fun. >> Oh, yeah. Sue is on it. They have a picture of it we can share with you at some point. Um, but she's like, "Oh, yeah, that person's alive. That person's dead." >> Oh, good. >> She's already like pulling in people. >> Sue knows who they are. >> Oh, yeah. She's like, "He's dead. He's dead." Anyway, it's really funny. Um, but cuz it's Sue. Um, but it's also like enormous. Like it's like like huge. Really? It's huge. And it's in >> It's like this enormous. It looks like a bomb. It's like huge. >> Like the ammo chest type thing. >> Yeah. It's like welded shut. So they're going to have to like whole thing. And then the funny thing that I heard is that you at first they were like, "Oh yeah, this piece very nice artifact." Like putting it in there. But apparently at the end of where they were about to close it, people were just throwing stuff in. Oh, I can't wait to see. We have no idea what's in it. We don't know the like the state of things in it, but regardless, I think >> having a time theme would be kind of fun. So, we'll see what's in there, but um yeah, so I'm really excited for that. >> Can I add one thing? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Um I'm sure you've heard that historically there were street dances at the car show. Have you heard this? >> No. Okay. So, one of I I feel like it was Candy Peterson who told me about it and she had always wanted to bring back a ste a street dance. So, I wonder if you could pull off a street dance here at the car show on this night as like a big throwback. >> Ingred can dress up. >> Totally dress up. And she will play the viola. >> No, nobody wants to hear that throwback thing, but I like the I like the the band. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. >> Sweet. So, I'll keep you guys updated with that. It like we're kind if we're going to have it close to the historical society, it will be away from a park, but I think for this >> Yeah, >> it will kind of fit. It's the veterans memorial there. So, >> kind of sweeting that in. >> Um, okay. What else? Um, so we're going to move the kids music in the park to May instead of June. Um, it worked well at Howy. It was like warm and cozy and it's really only like little little kids that come so it's kind of the perfect space. Um and then we're kind of leaving the summer a little bit more free and open. That was our um our thinking behind that. We're going to have four exercise in the parks instead of three. >> Um someone at the yoga session we had um mentioned that they used to do Silver Lake in the morning. >> Mhm. >> Like that's a fantastic idea. >> So we're going to try a morning yoga at Silver Lake. >> Cool. Mhm. >> Um and then yeah, we're going to keep Steel Drums and repeat the Silver Lake um beach party because that was just such a hit. So, we'll see how it goes. Um okay, so um in terms of expectations for the commission going forward, um I would love if you came and volunteered at at least two events per year um just to help out. And then um I'm going to be sending out emails um like a month before um the event to say, "Hey, this is the event that's coming up. This is when it's going to be. This is what the like volunteering is going to look like. Um are you guys available?" Just cuz I think last year when it was like at the beginning and you guys were looking at this list, like my dates change, so it's and then it's um yeah, just hard for everyone to remember who said what. So um I'll just kind of be talking with you throughout the year. And then just helpful and positive attitudes. I'm I'm wearing a bunch of hats during the events where, you know, I'm trying to take photos and I'm coordinating things. So, um yeah, just I'm really grateful for you guys kind of seeing what needs to be done, pointing things out, getting things done. Um just being another set of hands and eyes is great. Okay, so um any other ideas or suggestions, areas to improve? Um this doesn't if you don't have if you have go home and think about it and you're like ah I wish I said this in the meeting always free to chat um you can call or text me or email it works too. I just want to say, Eva, um I really want to commend you on your passion and like the evolution of what you've done to a lot of these events and really taking it over and the social media presence. Like I've really noticed it and it's just a really welcome change and I don't know that you get enough credit for how much work this is because we used to do it as as a commission and it's a lot of work and I just want to say thank you. It it's not gone unnoticed and sorry we probably don't say it enough. Um, my only suggestion would be maybe is like now that you kind of have this list and I know not all the dates are solidified. >> Yeah. >> How do we get that out on like in one of the mailers or something? Um, I feel like with the fire and ice, I came to that and I think what it was I think people just didn't know it was happening because it was kind of like one of your first events of the year and people the word just wasn't spread quick enough probably because of the holidays. Yeah. Yeah, but it' just be great since you have this already kind of lined up like how do we and maybe you already have a plan for this but just >> you know I'm trying to think of how younger people would see something like this whether it's >> I don't have I don't necessarily have the best suggestion but I just think like if this could go on the city Facebook page or something um or TBD dates because I I just think you've put so much work into it and people I think more people would come if they just knew about it and you already got a pretty big presence at all these things organically anyways. So >> even a even a link on the city's website. Oh, events. So 20 26 events that they could click on and even just look at this PDF. It doesn't even have to be very interactive or anything, but just just so that people can go, "Oh, I'm in town in June." Or, you know, and kind of I don't know, just it also even if they're not going to attend all of them or even most of them, it's cool to see how much is going on. If I were a young couple looking uh into where I should where we should buy a home and raise our kids, I would I would be impressed by a community's website that listed a whole bunch of interactive, you know, community events that would that would that would sell me along with beautiful parks of course, >> but that would make me want to move. >> Um so, >> for sure. Yeah. Um, I think I haven't in the past done like the full list. Um, but I think I will this year. >> I think it'd be helpful, too. Even if there's a way to get it down to one page, like so that people could just stick it on their refrigerator. Or maybe there's money we could use from the park fund to like >> I know my realtors like to do this like print a magnet of like the Viking schedule. Like could we do that with parks and just spend the money to put that in the mailer uh just to get more presents? I know those are like $1,000, but we haven't, you know, maybe that's something we could allocate some money for to like just promote these events. >> Yeah, >> I would guess if we wanted to do that, we'd want to include all city events. It wouldn't just be parks. I would guess that'd be more of your budget type of Yeah. >> thing. Um but certainly something we can look at. >> Yeah. No, something that I've been wanting to do. um but just haven't got there slash don't know if the money's there is um like I know that we used to print out and send out the newsletter um and a lot of people really miss that and so I I think having one printed very nice at the beginning of the year here's everything subscribe to the newsletter if you like this sort of content here's all the events >> would be really helpful >> I I would be supportive like and maybe the other commissions would too but like if is spending some of our park fund money um for that because I think that's a really worthwhile investment. You think about bringing people to our parks and advertising the events so they don't go unattended and I think that'd be great for it to go out the first of the year so you get your fire in the ice and >> going forward. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Not sure how we make that happen, but >> yeah, I mean I'm I'm willing to create it. Um it's something that I'm passionate about and like I do a lot of work just to keep the newsletter going and I think that a lot of people just don't know it's there. So, >> um, yeah, I will bring it up to Brian again and, um, >> we'll see what he says. >> Even if he'll, yeah, anything he'll do. I stick those magnets up even though I don't really care when the Vikings play, but I'm like, well, you know, maybe I need to know. And I've used it several times. I'm like, are they playing today? Cuz I don't want to go downtown if, you know, >> when to not go down. >> Yeah. When to not be around downtown Minneapolis. >> That's really funny. Yeah. So, um I'm I'm available and around. So, if you have thoughts or questions, just email me. Um I'll be in touch in January and in February as well with updated schedule and Holly Jolly night's coming up. It was absolutely wonderful. It's my favorite event of the year um on December 5th. So, I'm really excited for that. Um would love if you just came out and brought your families. Casey Lake Park. >> Yes. >> Well done. >> Thank you. Thank you, Ava. >> Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you, guys. Okay, hold on. Let me get back to our schedule. >> Okay, so our next conversation is about uh Mcnite next steps. >> Yes. >> And if I could have 30 seconds. >> Sure. >> Okay. I would like if possible all of us to enter into this conversation with an open mind. I know that a lot of us myself included watched last night the workshop and have feelings about it. I also think it's important that we hear what everybody has to say in a conversation style fashion so that we all can come to a shared understanding. Is that something that we are willing to do? >> Absolutely. >> Sure. >> Okay. Wonderful. >> Perfect. Well, I will start. Um, so from the last parks meeting, the commission expressed interest in moving forward with improvements to Mcnite. Um, and since that meeting, staff has discussed and outlined in this document that's in front of you um, some questions and considerations that would need to be discussed early on in the process. Some of this is for staff to discuss, some of it is for the commission. Um, however, the very first question on there is regarding the Housing and Urban Development Department or HUD. Um, and the agreement that they have with the city um when that land was purchased and it outlines uh the agreement outlines restrictions for land use of that property. We're still in the process of staff with working with HUD to receive the information um that outlines the any restrictions or anything else that might be in the agreement. We got a little delayed because they were shut down with the federal government as well. So, we're just starting to hear back from them now. Um the language that we currently have that's referenced in some preliminary documents we have is that all of that land needs to be used for park recreation field use and that's it. Um, but once we get all that information and staff takes it in and reviews it, we will present it to the commission and that'll help shape any recommendations that the commission has for Mcnite moving forward. Um, at that time the commission may begin developing a recommendation for their improve whatever you want to see at Mcnite, the improvements there and present that to city council. Um that would be a highlevel recommendation just outlining what the commission would like to see at the facility. Um at that time then council would decide if that's a project that they would be willing to move forward with. Um and then that would then lead the commission in a direction for future parks planning. Um with all that being said, I'm going to hand it over to Ken to talk about the workshop from last night as well as some budget considerations. Thanks, Sarah. Oh, excuse me. Uh, I was in attendance at the workshop last night and listened to the council and the primary focus of the workshop, as Laura will, I'm sure, attest to, was to review the tax levy, the proposed tax levies, the impact on residents and properties, property owners, and getting clarity or feedback from the council members on where they see the spending priorities for the city. And Dan, our finance director, walked them through a series of steps and in an exercise and had them at the end uh rate there there was eight categories. I don't remember all of them but they included streets and utilities uh maintaining the ex existing infrastructure we have uh those were three of them uh equipment purchases uh parks and trails improvements and there was two or three others I apologize I didn't write them all down. The council then rated each of them each individual member rated those one through eight with one being the most important, eight being the least important in their minds at this time. And after the ratings were done, the spending towards streets, utilities, and maintaining ex existing infrastructure were the top three. and maintaining existing infrastructure includes buildings and facilities, not just infrastructure. When I think of infrastructure, I think of streets and sewers and that that was more intended about buildings and structures uh within that the city own and operate. Uh and the way the ranking came out again with those there the parks and trails were eight on eighth on the eighth list of eight. >> Can I clarify that >> please? >> It actually wasn't. It was well it wasn't eighth out of eight. There was three things that were tied for last place. Okay. In the voting and I also just want to clarify that only three members of council voted on this. >> Oh, >> great. That's important to know as well. >> Yep. Yep. Uh and part of the workshop was also, and I probably jumped ahead a little bit, is Dan wanted to emphasize with the council members again the impact of the budget, impact of the tax levies, and to just keep the same level of service we have now without any great spending. The levy will have to go up eight to 10 percent every year for the foreseeable future. Just the city's part. It doesn't count school district, doesn't count. And it's his he wanted to get a feel from them, the council members. Again, if they were comfortable with that, did they want to lower it? Did they want to raise it? Maybe try to spend more money to do projects, that kind of thing. And the consensus, it wasn't a vote, but they nodded their heads, said yes, the 8 to 10% was their comfort level. They didn't want to go down, they won't go up. The minimum really that just keep things running the way things are would be at least a 6% levy increase each year. So 8 to 10% has some money for projects, whether it's parks, streets, equipment purchases, those kind of things. So there's no no again no support to increase the levy or no direction to cut anything either. It just kind of status quo for now. Uh >> is the levy would it need to be voted upon >> the >> by the by the city? >> The city council will >> but taxpayers don't approve this levy like they would a school district levy. >> No, it's not a special bonding for a project. When they say levy, it's really what what would the tax increase be? >> Property tax increase. >> Okay. >> The council, he he also asked the council, were they generally were they supportive of the projects that were outlined in the CIP and in the priorities of them? And again, in a general sense, yes, they were. So all that is background information for Mcnite and the Mcnite Fields or MC Mcnite athletic complex. If the parks commission feels strongly that yes, that's where they want the city to focus their time and energy and dollars, that can be done. But uh the parks fund only has about one just over a million dollars or 1.4 million I think in it. And just high level early on looking at it, if the Mcnite fields takes 3 to six or 9 million depending on how large the scope or project, there's not enough money there to do that, let alone do any other park projects. That would be essentially putting all the park fund money into one basket. So that's a we we're not saying it can't be done, but right now the city council wants is following the CIP, spreading money out in various parks, various projects over the next few years. If that's a change that the commission wants to pursue, then again, it' be putting a plan together, trying to get some cost estimates, how much to do, and timing. And that's some of the outline that uh Sarah and I prepared. that's you have before you and then bringing that back to council and say we as a park commission want to change directions we want to change the CIP council what do you think please that's what we want to pursue so it's not a hard no it just takes more information and time and eventually approval from the city council to go down that road >> okay I have a couple of questions but I want uh open it up to other people first that may have questions. That is Ken if you are done. >> Yeah, for now. Yeah, I'm happy to Sarah and I are both happy to take questions. >> Okay. Or I can start. >> Why don't you Why don't you start? >> Okay. Um if we could walk it back a couple of steps. Ken, what's your understanding of the historical context of the park commission and our open space master planning process that's happened? >> Please rephrase that. I I'm want to make sure I get it correct. So are you aware of the history of the park planning process that this commission has been doing and why we were asked to do it and um the things that we encountered along the way >> the latter part no >> okay >> the the what the plans I'm aware of are the highle plans that HGA prepared >> for the three parks >> so I thinking Mcnite but not all the others. So I think a big piece that maybe of historical context that you are missing just to lend additional perspective and lenses to this conversation is we've been working on coming up with an open space master plan since 2020 >> and essentially have been told by council for the last 5 years that we cannot spend any money at all on anything until we have a plan. So we have not spent money and we have been essentially handcuffed for the last 5 years to not do anything until we come up with a plan. We came up with a plan in 2022. We brought it to council. They were like this is not enough and essentially tasked us with doing more. And so we just came to this place with HGA where we finally actually created this plan and got the green light from council to move forward with the plan. Um and I want to say that was like a couple of months ago maybe within 6 months >> this year. Yeah. >> This year. Yeah. >> This year. So, I think as a commission, a lot of us feel frustration in that process because it's been so long. We've been doing what we've been told and now we finally got to a place where we can move forward and do stuff and now the city is telling us, "Wait a second. Like, we need to pause. You don't have enough money. We need to think through this." All of those things. So, like I think that historical context is really important for you to know um because it's been a very long five years and it's been very frustrating. Um with that being said, one of my biggest concerns that I heard from the meeting last night, well actually I have two. One, the presentation that was put together by the finance director was extremely leading. It didn't create an opportunity. it. This is all my opinion. It did not create an opportunity for council to come to any other conclusion other than ranking parks last as a as a priority. And I know that you did not create that presentation. So, this is my feedback to you for the finance director to the point that the thought exercise that he had planned at the end of the slides was literally talking through Mcnite. like he knew that at the start of that um presentation he was going to push council to think about the highlevel cost projects that the parks were doing in a way that made it seem like the parks are too expensive to prioritize right now. That was my sense. And again, there were only three member There were three members, council members there. There were two that voted completely perfectly in line with each other, parks last, and then council member Woods mixed it up. Um the second thing that is most concerning to me is that um the finance director said out loud at the end of his presentation that we might need to dip into the parks fund. we meaning the city might need to dip into the parks fund to fund the projects that they want to do and that council wants to do. >> Um and so historically there's been this like wall between those um funds. Half of them the city can't touch because it's dedicated park funding money which y'all don't have access to unless we're doing parks. The other part is money that we've been sitting on, diligently saving, planning because that's what council has told us to do for the last 5 years. And then to find out that there's a potential that the city is going to tap into that to do other things while they've also tied our hands this whole time is a really difficult spot to be in. >> Can I ask a question? >> Yep. When you're saying the finance talked about dipping into the parks fund >> last night. >> Yep. >> Was that in your opinion referring to use that money to do other things other than parks or strictly for park related things >> to do to to supplement city projects prioritized by council by city council. >> But I want to make sure I'm clear. City >> not parks. Not parks. And it park dedication money that the city takes in from projects cannot as you know cannot be used for anything but parks. The other funding that I I can it be moved around probably. >> It can that's that that's the concern is it can >> and I didn't catch that comment. I don't doubt that he said something like that. >> It was in the workshop right at the end if you want to go back and watch it. >> Okay. Um and then I just like in that same vein formally working for the school district understanding public funding. Um there are intentional different budget streams within school districts to prevent this thing this exact same thing from happening. Um there's 01 funding which is like your main school district um you know teaching and learning type projects and then there's 04 funding which is community education. There are a lot of times where it would be really convenient for a school district 01 fund to dip into the savings account fund balance of community ed which is a self-sustaining program and can't generate revenue necessarily um if people are taking from their savings account. are saving that for future programming and the wall is there uh intentionally and there have been districts who have uh lobbied to be able to have like a one-time draw from that funding specifically why we zetta and that isn't actually solving a problem it's taking money from somebody else's savings account to offset a deficit but not actually fixing the problem it's just filling the hole and so I am really cautious and really diligently want to advocate that like a one-time pull from the park fund to fix something in the city is not actually fixing the problem. And like I don't want to set a precedent where anytime the city is in a rough spot that they can come to park fund and take money because that's something that they've tried to hold over our heads there this entire the entire time I've been on this commission. So like that decision if it does move forward is a very very slippery slope. Those are my thoughts. I guess my question too is that um post this workshop um what are the plans since all the city council members weren't there? Will there be a vote of some sort that comes out of this? Is this just informational? Um, at what point is something rolling out of this that, um, we should, you know, escalate or bring up? Um, I just I think if these things start to happen, then the public needs to be aware. And I don't have a job right now, so I've got no problem writing every media in this city because I'm already pretty ticked off about that house being built on our parkland. So I just think my question is where does this go from this workshop? If someone can educate me. So the workshop happened, where does it go and what are the next steps following that? I I understand the parks have been dep prioritized. We can still move forward with plans. Um I also don't want us to get into a situation and this is what it's beginning to feel like where we need to spend this money ASAP so that the city doesn't take it because that's that's beginning to feel a little bit like it. But at the same time, we're being told like we can't prioritize our projects even though we can. Um I guess that's my question is the what are the next steps from this workshop? >> The next steps in the city budget adoption will be council meeting on December 2nd is the truth and taxation hearing. That's when the preliminary final budget is presented. Talks about the levy or the increase in taxes. They take public comment at that and then on December 16th is when they adopt the final budget and they we're expecting they will adopt the updated CIP for the next 10 years. So that includes all the parks projects, street projects, equipment purchases, all those kind of things. as a park commission um and maybe even the public. When would you advise people attend one of those meetings to maybe speak out if they feel passionately about this? >> The truth and taxation >> this December 2nd. >> December 2nd. >> Is that here in the council chambers? Okay. >> That I'm sure it's a public hearing. They'll take public testimony. >> Perfect. I do want to put on the record that the school district attempted to pass a levy that would have been a 2.6 six um% increase and the city is currently proposing eight. So, just want to put that out there. And the district did not pass that levy and there was a lot of people against it. So, the the the 8% increase is significant. Um so, I want to put that out there as well. Can I maybe ask um with your expertise if we're feel still feeling really strong about Mcnite and knowing that the $1 million we have will not fund the whole project um with the suggestions on this list. A lot of these seem very um city specific as far as like drainage things like that. Those come with like site plans, but we can't get a site plan until we have approval for this site. So this feels again like this where our hands are tied but we can't answer some of these questions until like a formal paid site plan has been done for Mcnite. Um that how would you advise um we proceed if we do feel strongly about continuing with? >> So I can I'll answer that because we've talked through that um as staff. So like I mentioned the first question we're kind of in a holding pattern at the moment because this first question has to be answered. Yep. It was something we talked about with if public works or electric needs storage, we need to figure out if they can even do that and what the land's going to look like. After that, once we figure out exactly what, for lack of a better term, there is to play with, then we would say if you feel strongly about it to let's formulate a a highle recommendation that you can go to council with. >> Okay. And then with the HUD agreement, um you said that they're determining whether it can just be field use. Can you when you say field use, could that still be a playground? Is that park or is that like we don't know what the definition of field use is? Okay, >> that's part of what we're waiting for. >> Okay, perfect. >> Y >> one would hope general recreation uses of any type would be allowed, but it was written in 1971. So, >> so with that, I'll just add this. I know there was a thought to have a workshop on December 10th for Mcnite. I think we would recommend to hold off on that quite yet until we have this information because we don't want to start going down a path that when we go, oh crap, yeah, we can't do it. So that would be our recommendation is to wait and then we should have this as soon as we get this information we can send it out and we can begin talking about this in the beginning of the year. Um if that works for everybody. >> What's the city council's position on a lot of these improvements? >> We don't know. I don't know >> because they're aware of the HDA plans, but until we start we as the city and staff start narrowing it down to what's the focus going to be. Is it going to be a phase plan? Would it ideally be everything at one time? We got a little bit of the chicken and the egg here thing. We so nothing re nothing in my time here has been presented to them as this is the what we want to proceed with at Mcnite because in my time here again it's about 7 months it's always been we're doing some project over here a little project over here we're spreading the money out. This is a change. Doesn't mean it can't work, but we need there's a lot of steps as you can see here to work through to eventually get to where the ground could be broken. If if this something goes forward with McNight, I'm again preliminary high level guess. I would expect most of 2026 or at least a good chunk of it would be going through the design process, the engineering, permitting, maybe some ground could be broken in the fall otherwise it would be a 2027 construction. >> Yep. I think we all are aware of that and I >> and the purpose of the workshop was to determine the different phases and projects and how they could be peacemeal started. Um I don't we've never intended as a commission to do this one project all at once. That's um we've that's never been something that we wanted to do. Um we have regularly presented to council um both within the HDA plan when it was finally um presented uh HDA also presented to council multiple times with the planning process. Um I presented to council during that process. like council has been very aware um of all of this stuff that we're doing and we've been nothing but forthright and diligent in presenting every single possible detail that we can to them. Um so they are well aware. >> Do you know the time of the truth and taxation meeting? Is it 6:30? >> Okay, thank you. >> Um when did we find out the HUD thing? I was going to ask that too because that is just like so heartbreaking. >> Um there's always been discussion that there could have been a HUD agreement. Um this entire time when we've been working with HGA, we did not get the actual confirmation that there was until we got our certificate of survey back because part of what they do is pull title work. >> Um so it was in there. There's a couple of re resolutions that were um noted in there that noted the contract number and that's where we're trying to get a copy of to view that >> and it's about outdoor storage. What >> um so describe what the >> it's saying it can only be used indefinitely for public recreation fields. And so there needs to be there needs to be clarity around what a public recreation field is >> and what >> is it all the property or is it just portions of the property >> that are covered by that restriction. >> I will say from like the preliminary looks like we've looked at it looks like all of it is going to be for public recreation fields which is what we want to do essentially. it I think it's going to lead us in the right d the direction we want to go into but we got to just make sure 100%. So, and and I also want to highlight that even if or hopefully when the HUD agreement says that we can move forward, all of that is predicated on city council allowing us to like and so I if you didn't watch the workshop last night, I would highly encourage you to watch it so that you can understand city council's position and where they placed parks on their priority test. Um because once we jump this hurdle, I strongly believe that city council is going to be our next. Does anybody else want to speak about this? May I add one thing? Um the budget that is proposed annually and the the CIP can be is adjusted. Dan would say this too. It's adjusted annually. It's not set in stone. It's not in rock. It's not >> We got this. We can move bunnies around wherever. We can put one project off and do another project. Um I'm just as passionate about this situation as you guys are. Um few things to consider. Three people were at council last night. The nobody wants the levy to go up. I don't think anybody wants a levy to be real with you. I mean, in any county, park, city, whatever it is, we don't want the levy. But the truth is is there's going to be a levy within the city. council at this time who is on chambers on a weekly basis for the next well I'm only on for another year turns over a whole new council which means you know what that 8 to 9% that we want right now is going to change potentially in another year because they may see it going up again or they may be bringing it down all of this is moving in all different directions so please keep in mind we and I have to do this too and I have to remind self. We need to rem remind ourselves to be open-minded about this. >> Do we know what projects they're considering uh moving forward with next year from the park commission? >> They didn't talk about that. >> I at this point, my understanding they would go with whatever is in the CIP identified for 2026. >> Okay. And so that part of the conversation will be if parks commission is really set on focusing on McNight, which ones that are in the CIP now for 2026 get pushed off to 27 28. However, the numbers start working there. It's clear there's not enough money to do everything. So then becomes setting priorities. Why don't I want to keep dumbing money more money into something that we're probably not even going to be able to realize for years and then hold off on other parks that may need something. The reality is is what is about $15 million to actually take care of that Mcnite and peace milling. I don't know if that's going to be effective either. that >> that will very much be probably part of the initial discussion. >> We don't have the answers yet, but >> no, >> it's that's important. >> I'd be curious to see it'd be nice to start doing something like Laura said to some of the other parks at this point. That's my that's my view on it. >> Okay, but hold on. Let's take a step back. So, like if we're looking at the 2026 CIP, the document right here, it's saying that we've dedicated 500,000 to Casey Lake Active Playground. We essentially agreed to back off on that. So, >> and that changed. >> Well, we already said that it should be. >> Yeah, we said it two meetings ago to push it >> to push that back because that's not a priority for us. the open air shelter we talked about replacing because people noticed that it was gone. Um, and then the playground at Mcnite, we have that on there, but that isn't necessarily where we would start. That's what the that's what the meeting is about is where we want to start. >> I do I do want to note though that these are the priorities that your commission came up with this year. Um, so I I don't want to make it sound like staff made these priorities. That's not That's not at all what I'm saying. Sorry. Nope. That is not at all what I'm saying. Thank you for pointing that out very very clearly. That's not what I'm saying. Not at all. >> What I what I am saying is if we're looking at what Lloyd was just talking about and saying not wanting to hold off on projects >> for something that may or may not ever be realized and then we're sitting on money >> and that instead to move forward on small projects in 2026. I wanted us to reanchor ourselves in what we said we wanted to be a priority here and what we have already talked about no longer focusing on >> and that does that clarify what I'm saying? >> Mhm. >> Okay. So like we do have money going towards the active playground >> but we all agree that we don't want to start there. >> Sure. >> So like this is what it says on paper but there's also been conversations that I've had that are different than this. Mhm. >> So, I just wanted to >> I kind of thought that's what the December 10th meeting was going to be about. >> Yeah. >> Um was to like kind of finalize this and prioritize. I do agree that Mcnite was going to be a big part of that conversation. Um but knowing what we know now, I think if it's possible to still keep the December 10th meeting and have a conversation about what these 2026 priorities like if we are shifting things out so we can give the council a real view of what we're talking about. So just to tag on to that, December 2nd is the truth and taxation. We review this. We say, "All right, we can we're moving ahead to prove this." So once December 2nd's meeting is >> no changes, >> no changes. Yeah. So tonight, >> we're saying if this will still obviously go to council, you going to council to recommend changing the funding to Mcnite is what we're suggesting. there be the recommendations and going to council and saying exactly what you're saying today. We don't want to prioritize this. We want to prioritize mcnight. >> So, we just need to talk tonight so we can change this ahead of that December 2nd meeting or is this set in stone? We can't touch this anymore. >> I don't think it's set in stone and you can make the recommendation. >> Right. >> Right. I mean, I >> I I would sure believe so that we that you >> I think that we need to discuss this tonight. just I knowing what's in the air, I don't want to send a false thing in front, especially with a half million dollar price tag. >> Um >> the thing I don't know because I'm not educated on the cost of land surveying is it would seem more pertinent to spend money to set aside for the land surveying and all the thing that's going to need to be happening to McNight. I feel like that's an investment regardless of what whether we do because we can't do anything without knowing whether it needs rain guard or all this stuff like the runoff the parking lots. Um that's just one observation if we push some of this Mcnite stuff to 2027 which I think is realistic but I want to make sure that money is in there so council doesn't come back to us and say you didn't set aside money for the surveying or the project. >> Well, we did do the survey already. >> Okay. done. >> But all these questions, >> plans, that's engineered plans. >> So all these questions around rain gardens and um drainage and watershed, those feel like they come with a price tag. >> Yes. So that would be >> So those that's a different plan. Engineering plan. Okay. >> We're just using the wrong terminology. >> Okay. >> Yes. I just want to make sure you know that you spent money on a survey already. >> And what the survey told us is what is there now? >> Yep. set the boundaries to contour so we know elevations >> that then design engineers or landscape architects work off of to do their plans >> and the chicken or the egg conversation. Can you get engineering plans without having a design plan to know where things are? Great. So you have to have a design plan first. So we need to pay >> we have a design plan. >> We do. Okay. And I guess primarily for our benefit is the layout that's in the HCA plan. Is that still the plan? >> Yes. >> Commission wants. >> Yes. 100%. >> It may not be the exact play structure, but we know that's that's editable based on, you know, we've done a lot of playgrounds. It's just that's the space we want this the space we want the skatepark. I think we feel very confident about that. I just don't I keep feeling like I'm getting stuck between is it the chicken or the egg? and feels like all the little like we've ticked a lot of the boxes, but I just want to make sure cuz a lot of these questions seem like they're asking things that I thought would have been in some of the things we already got back. So, I just >> I want to make sure we have funding to ask for whatever if it's if it's called an engineering plan >> based on our HGA plan, you know, and I have no idea what those things cost is. So, to to make a recommendation to set aside money to add that, we would need some. So, if anyone here has any guidance, >> well, here's a hypothetical. Do we want would we need engineered plans for the whole 21 acres or just for the first phase? >> No, we want >> what are going to what would be the first phase? >> That's >> those are the some of the things we some of the decision points. If only the skate parks can be done or the flex field, we don't need to necessarily do engineer plans for the ball fields. >> But if they find something out in an engineer plan that's going to impact the rest, we would need to know. So it doesn't make sense to do it in small parts >> probably. Especially when you get into grading and drainage. Yeah. >> Storm water runoff, >> right? >> Are ponds needed? Can the county ditch be used? that those are that's when you get into engineer design plans >> and we even got down there the wershed district's going to get involved. >> Okay. How much does a 21 acre engineering plan roughly cost? >> Oh, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a couple hundred,000. >> Great. Okay. So, if I said $300,000, >> I'm I'm giving a wag right now. >> I don't know what that means. >> Wild ass guess. Oh, okay. Okay. >> Can I ask when you say 21 acres, is that including the four softball fields? >> Because one suggestion could be we know the the replacement of the four soft or the two softball fields is further down the road than the first part. Would it be for cost behing, the flex field, the skate, the which is less acres than the other part? Um, since that has actual grass and probably has some sort of self drainage. I don't know. Don't know enough about grass. Um, sorry. Um, just a thought because it might narrow the cost and be a little less scary. I don't know because that's what we're going to focus on over the next five years. >> I would love someone else's opinion because in my opinion, it doesn't make sense to if we have to do it, we should do it now. >> It's not going to change. >> It's not going to get any cheaper >> and it's not going to get any cheaper. I agree too also just from the standpoint of the ball fields have really poor drainage anyway issue we deal with all the time. So if we can get that looked at >> that seems to make sense in my mind. >> Yeah. At least get the design not necessarily do the construction. >> Can I ask for the engineering plan? Um if we get that are we I only ask because for the softball fields like let's say I don't know demographics could very well might shift in the next 10 years and we decide that little port that big portion of those two fields might want to be something else. I don't know what it is. Are we stuck with that earring? Okay. Because we'll still have to do something with the drainage and everything else. Right. >> It's just telling telling us what we have to do in order to make it a >> a park or to something we can work with. Yeah. >> More usable. more usable. Exactly. I'm with you. So, >> I had a question on the HA plan if I may. >> Yeah. >> Skate park. I'm I'll admit it. I'm not up on all the current park and rec themes. >> Mhm. >> I thought skate parks were going out of style. Are they coming back in? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, if you look at Minneapolis specifically, they have like a dedicated skate park building team like that's working together to put them in a bunch of different areas and um, yeah, they're coming back. >> Our intention, too, is to work with the skateboard shop here in town to get feedback and also make it like kids scooter friendly. So, this isn't just someone who has skateboards. you see at the more modern park, Shore View has one where kids with little razor scooters or little rollerblades. It becomes a lot more widely usable besides just like a big bowl that only skateboarders can use. Um like BMX too, like bicycles. >> That's a good clarification. Yeah, it's not like it Yeah, >> it's not for >> It's not the 1990s. >> It's not for Tony Hawk. No, it's not. >> That was my favorite video game though. Tony Hawk. Um anyways, but will go too. >> I know. Okay. So, it would be my personal opinion, not as the chair, but as Laura, that we move forward with budgeting for a 21 acre engineering survey. I would love to hear other people's opinions, yay or nay, and your the any caveats that you have about possibly moving forward with that. Well, my only concern is it's $300,000. Now we've got what? You said 1.5 million we got in all these funds. Now we spend $300,000 on something where we might be able to put it somewhere else. And how what is that going to get us? And how long is it going to be before we can even get beyond this this consultation? concern. But this is a this is a roadblock to moving forward on McNight period. >> Right. Maybe we need to uh figure out how many years it's going to take us to get to where we want Mcnite to be the way it is. >> But we've already done that. Yeah. >> Well, it's right now it's $15 million. We're not going to >> But we don't have grants in place and things like that too that are also possible that aren't in here. Um, >> is there a re So there's a reality that we may be able to come up with grants and stuff to do this in the next >> for skate parks for some of these like componentry of this. Absolutely. Um, you know, I my counterargument Lloyd would be um an investment in this and hopefully it isn't 300,000 but if it isn't um is that we would need this to do something anytime. Look at that parking lot. Look at those tennis courts. Do you want to live next to that? I wouldn't like it's not an investment in our community to look at that field and say it's only going to get worse. We're going to have to spend this money now and in 5 years that 300 grand could be 900 grand. This is what happened with Casey Lake building. It cost us a million then it would cost us probably seven now. We did it at the right time. Waiting longer is only going to cost us more. And I would also think that um it's a it's more efficient to get the whole plan. Uh because it'd be interesting to see like maybe it's you know what I I I I don't I can't compare like if we're talking about just part of it, you know, the engineering plans for part of it versus the whole thing. I don't even know what percentage that would be. Maybe it's maybe it's only a little extra percentage to do the whole 21 acres versus what we're you know once you you know how sometimes you get a plumber out to your house and then the additional extra faucet isn't going to cost as much as having the plumber come out two different times. So, I guess what I'm saying is it seems efficient to just get the plan done if it's going to I mean, and like you were saying, it's not going to get any cheaper. This park is only getting worse. It's only getting dilapitated if the council doesn't want to prioritize it. You know, that is a risk we're taking, but at some point the community is going to speak out and say this isn't okay. And I like fell and busted my hip on that parking lot. Like, it's not safe. We have to do something and a city can either use our money to do it to build that better park or they're going to be investing their own money to tear all that stuff out anyways because we got to do something >> and it's a safety hazard at this point. >> I'd like to say too, I'm sorry to interrupt. Um, uh, we've been talking about >> Mcnite for ye for a decade. We have been talking about how, you know, we got to do something about that that parking lot. We've got to do something. And also the visibility of Mcnite when you talk about when we're talking about people who come you know like visiting teams are coming and you know their their kids are playing on a I mean people from other communities are coming and their kids are playing on the the wrecked tennis court instead of a a park structure. Do you know what I'm saying? Um it doesn't really it is it is so visible as well. Casey is very visible, but I would say Mcnite because it draws for events and things like that. It's >> it's our most visible. It's on the high. >> It is our most visible park. So, you're right. It's a and if that's how the city wants to show that this is what North St. Paul is if you come from Mameidi or Still Water, then I would argue that that's not a very good impression of our city that we're giving people. And I think that that's just what we're going to have to go to the council and tell them like if you know and if that means us finding more grants for some of this like I just don't think um I think we have to do this part first or this is going to be the chicken and the egg thing all over again. They're going to come to us and say well we can't do that because we don't have this plan and I think it's just a risk we have to take and I think it's a an educated risk but I understand Lloyd where you're coming from. and I have the same concern. It's a lot of money to spend to may or may not be able to do something with it, but we have to do something, you know. Um, we have to We have been going to those those tennis courts. How many times we've taken field trips there and just been like now they're throwing trees and snow and everything else. It's it's just something has to be done. We have to we have to take a step forward. >> Yep. Okay. Now that I that I with because >> it was my understanding like Ingred you were saying it it um >> it's been 10 years when we tried to get Casey done that was like >> 20 years 20 years. >> If you ask Nancy Thorson or whoever worked on it for 10 or 15 years and then when we actually got the piece pieces together it took us another two or three years >> going back and forth to get that in place. >> Yeah. My understanding was at first and I must have misunderstood is that we wanted to get this all done at once. That being said, let's I would move forward with the whole 21 acres. Yes. Absolutely. Let's not let's not peace meal peace meal. >> This is not going to get any cheap. >> No. Yeah. >> And then let's see where we can go and just take it a little step at a time and see where we what we need to do and where we can do it. Can I ask then for like my clarity and Ken's to bring back to Dan tomorrow for the CIP is what can you confirm what you would like removed? >> That's what we're going to do right now. >> Perfect. >> That's what we're doing right now. >> Let's go one by one just so add something. I would like clarification because as I'm reading it, Northwood Park 2025 update, >> Casey Lake Park update >> and Kobby Hills Park small add-on. My understanding is all that has been purchased. >> No. So the um Northwood was however it was intended for housy the pickle ball or the Gaga ball pits. >> Y >> however the housy uh making it ADA compliant drove the cost up. So we moved it to Northwood. So that is where that confusion is. This has still been titled Northwood Park but it was for a Gaga ball pit. >> Oh wait, aren't you talking about Kobe Hills? >> No. She was asking >> I'm talking about I I'm read them all off. Northwood Park 2025 update. >> So >> Lake Park update and the Kobby Hills >> small park, >> the 26,000 and the 135,000. >> So essentially the Northwood Park one was for a Gaga ball pit. The one from Howy ended up getting moved to Northwood after this was created. >> Thank you. Co uh Casey Lake was the same thing. was for a gaga ball pit. Um, and adding uh soccer goals um which was already something Ron was in the process of purchasing I think from this year. >> So should off those dollars should be taken off of 2026 and put >> that should be removed because it's already been purchased. >> And then the Colby Hill Small Park add-on was something that was talked about in 2025. Uh there was some concerns about um size constraints there. Um, and then there was a discussion on maybe the parks commission was interested in adding some features on the open space that's there across the street. Um, and then last meeting it was decided that that was not something that was of interest to move forward. So that will be removed as well. >> Y okay. >> Yes. >> So if we could get those removed. >> Yes. And the Casey Lake Park active playground, my understanding that should be taken off. >> Taking the playground at night too off. >> I think we just need to move it. No, I think we're just going to reallocate. Well, >> no. >> In my opinion, we would just instead of calling it Playground at Ignite, wouldn't it just be the engineering survey? >> We could rename it. >> I think you could have both. >> Well, I I want to leave it on there because we we're still going to need to spend money on it once it's done. Maybe we shift it to 2027. Um I just like slide it over. >> What do you think >> to um and then add the engineering plan as a line item? maybe replace the Northwood or one of those ones we're deleting out of there for the 300,000 you're recommending Laura >> up to 300,000 is what we'll say. >> So then the only line item for 2026 would be the open air shelter. >> Yes. Which I know last meeting we talked about you guys had suggested maybe removing that. I think with the feedback that I've personally received from the community, I think we should still proceed with that. Um, so yeah, as long as >> I think we liked it. I I think the one question was going to be where is the right place for it and letting So >> I I guess what we were saying is we kind of wanted some community feedback once that field was in play, which we're not really going to get feedback till the spring. So I'd hate. So, I'm 100% for it, but is there a way to push it to like a fall development or something so we can at least get feedback from the community to understand where the best placement is? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then, sorry, is the Casey Lake Park update the 6,000? That's the gaga ball. >> It was for Gaga ball. Yeah. >> Okay. So, that's so is the other 6,000. >> Yep. Okay. So, our only line item for 2026 is going to be Casey Lake open air shelter and then the engineering plan for 300,000 up to 300,000. >> Then we're then like Sarah said, we shift the playground >> that's 27 and the funding that we had for the Casey Lake active playground could go to the engineering piece. >> So, I think the Casey League active playground is still important. I would just rather shift it uh potentially because if we take it off then I worry it's not going to come back on this list. I'm not saying it needs to be done in the next two years. But maybe we can just discuss when we feel like a good place for that would be fine. >> Um cuz that's the ninja park we're talking about that people still miss >> um from Casey that I think is still important. But >> um maybe once we have that pavilion like we can make a better plan for knowing what makes sense with them. So, we're shift you'd like to shift the Casey Lake to 2027 and then the engineering is going to be in 2026. >> I I think 2027 would be a hard sell because of the Mcnite stuff. Um, >> yeah, 2028 or 2029. >> 2028 there's some stuff in there. There's the downtown open space budgeted, but we could shift it and realistically figure out when that would >> put the engineering piece into 2026. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, you want to move it to 2029 >> and we got Casey Lake. Um, can we do 2028 just so it's front and center and not too far out? And then if we need to shift, we can. >> Okay. Yep. >> Which one? >> The Casey Lakes's going to move to 2028, the active playground. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And so then to recap, we're going to have 2026 Casey Lake open air shelter and then the engineering plan in 2026. And then Sarah um Lang the Oops. Sarah, what's your new last name? >> Langola. But you know what? I keep spelling it. >> Okay. >> A little while away, right? >> City. City Sarah. Um we're going to shift the country. Sarah, he was so diligently working on your >> the playground >> the other day >> at Mcnite to 2027. >> Yep. >> And then we're going to shift the Casey Lake active playground to 2028. >> I guess here's one other question then. Since we don't have anything big next year, is there anything else on this list that's smaller that we might want to move to 2026? I guess the only other challenge I have like not the $500,000 things, but are there other little things >> we've discussed that or that aren't on here that we have talked about? >> Right. Right. >> Well, if we're talking liability, how about if we shift the uh think about shifting that Southwood observation deck >> which is in dilapitated shape too >> on the on the south side of >> what what is the size of that project in ter in dollars? >> Pardon? says 45,000. >> Oh, it's Oh, it's over here. Okay. >> No, >> I don't think I think that's pretty high, but I don't >> Okay, >> that seems like that seems high. >> Hasn't gotten >> We're talking about fixing the observation deck. >> That's the dock. >> Well, no. No. >> Well, up a hallway. >> Yeah. >> Yes. You'd probably You'd have to remove the >> the whole thing. >> Reconstruct. >> Yes. And we still think removal and reconstruction would be under 45. >> It wouldn't happen in 2026. I not with this time right now. Yeah. I just knowing Ron, he's going to say I can't make it happen in 2026. This is something that's going to need to be >> probably going to be done by our public work. >> Okay. So my proposal would be let us just in the best goodwill fashion we can go to council and say can we please have an engineering survey as our big thing that we're doing in 2026 >> and start there because we're going to start the 2027 planning and that can change. >> We're just setting 2026 in stone right now. Well, theoretically, but >> we are proposing 2026's budget needs to be done at the meeting by the meeting for December 2nd in order for council. >> Yes, there is flexibility in the rest of this in a future date, but for right now, front and center urgency >> is the engineering plan at Mcnite and the Casey Lake open air shelter. Yep. One one caveat that in all this >> not allowed, Ken. >> Okay. >> As they say in boxing, a plan is great until you get punched in the face. >> Yeah, I appreciate >> and >> I appreciate that feedback, Ken. >> We we a lot of we don't know what we don't know and we will learn a lot if we get design engineered plans. >> Story of our life here. >> Yeah. >> Story we will slowly move forward. That is the next step because with the survey as I said we can >> hang in there. >> Well, unless so the next steps then would be to find out >> for staff the HUD agreement get that all in alignment. Just want to make sure we're all on the same page. We are do that. Yep. We'll come back in January. >> We'll talk about the engineered plans and we'll go from there. >> And phasing. >> And phasing. >> Yes. >> We just keep move we just keep pushing forward. >> We have we we did create phases. Correct. We did. And respectfully, we don't have to worry about any of that right now. What we have to worry about is changing this because this is the most timely thing that we have to do tonight and we have time to talk about the rest. >> I just want to clarify that because it's it's sort of making I'm being >> I'm getting the vibes that >> it feels like we haven't phased this out or or or thought of this plan in in project. >> We did with those CI did you fill out some of those CIP forms? Yeah, that's what cuz I did all of them for Mcnite and I phased it based on yours and that's what this plan is. >> I just wanted to clarify that we did in fact phase we did plan in phases. Okay, we did. >> Great. >> One thing I'm going to caution the commission on >> the the phasing plan for actual grading and construction may be different than what you envision getting built first, second, and third. >> Yeah. Okay. There might the engineers might say, "Well, it's more sensible to do this >> and then do this." And so what you thought would be the phasing may change and >> which is completely great because we'll have an engineering plan to tell us which% we don't know. >> We don't know, right? >> But we're going to find out. >> We're going to know more when the engineering >> do do we need a motion for any of this? >> It it would be nice. Sarah's been taking diligent >> as she does. Yep. >> But just for the record, >> I'd like to just I'd like I'd like to just add that >> I commend the patience of this commission >> and Ingred, you've been on this for how long? >> Mhm. >> 10 15 years. >> Yeah. >> Starting from um Silver Lake Beach to uh Casey Lake to >> It takes a lot of patience. >> And we even worked on um park plans >> three or four times. Oh. Oh. >> In the last 10 or 12 years. And we just keep patiently >> moving forward and staying in there. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> It gets frustrating. I get it. >> But we can do this. >> Yeah. >> We'll just keep moving forward in a positive manner. >> Okay. >> Okay. To clarify, the motion is to amend the CIP. >> Yes. >> You You can make it. >> Yeah. Why don't you make it? >> Okay. I would like to I make a motion to recommend that we modify our proposed CIP projects to only include the Casey Lake open air shelter and add the addition of an engineering survey for up to $300,000 in 2026 >> for McNight. >> For Mcnite. >> Okay. Do we need to shift mention the shifts that we're doing? >> Nope. They noted it. It's just more so the addition I believe. >> Okay. Uh what do I do now? Ask for a vote. >> Me second. You got to second it. >> Oh yeah, I need a second. Okay, >> I'll second it. >> No, you want to >> discussion? >> Yep. >> All those in favor? >> I. >> All those opposed? >> Good job. >> Wonderful. Got it. Nailed it. And I do want to thank you all for having this discussion. I think this was great to talk this out and gives us good feedback to bring back as well and hopefully you guys find that it we're moving in a hopefully a good direction. >> We are. >> We are. >> Yes. >> Perfect. >> Okay. The way I need to go to bed right now. Um okay. Reports from staff. >> Yes. Super brief today. Um, want to note, super exciting that the Polar Park uh playground was uh removed and will be replaced ahead of schedule. Um, it was supposed to be this week. It got pushed back to the beginning of December. So, >> um, look for that. We're going to make some social media posts about it and everything. >> Will you be able to send an email to the group? I didn't realize they were doing it like now. So, it' be great be able to share it with people. >> We got a little surprise, too. >> Oh, yay. >> Um, yes, I will send that in the recap email. Yeah. Okay. >> Um and then the last thing is just the pickle ball and volleyball nets came down earlier this week for the winter. Um just with potential of snow coming up here. >> Sounds great. >> Yes. Sorry. Um but that's all I got. >> Okay. Awesome. >> Ken, is there anything you want to add? >> Well, it's been great. No, no, it's I I I appreciate the conversation, the questions. I'll speak for Sarah and I. We're happy to help. Uh >> well, you do a great job. >> It's going to be a process. >> That's a cliche, but it's true. And if we can get the council on board, then we'll we'll work with you. We are not intending to work against you and uh >> and thank you to the council because these are hard times. >> Very hard times. >> Oh, that other than that it's been great. >> Yeah. >> Oh, and both tonight and my seven months with the city. >> Happy seven months. >> Yeah. >> Sarah, can I ask a staff report like with our park openings? >> Um just saying this in case anyone in the room is interested. Um are are you guys going to be like sending that out or putting it somewhere that we're looking for new commissioners since we've lost some people and we would really like >> Yes. New fresh eyes. >> So we just learned about Ben like right before the end of the day today. Cool. >> Um so the plan is to start promoting that right away. >> Okay. Ben stepping. >> And how do you apply in case you're interested? >> Uh you apply right online through our open gov portal. Uh and Ken and I will review it and we'll schedule some interviews. Really subtle. I wonder if some of the former people who had applied who might be good contenders if they could um be informed. >> Planning Commission members also. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. They're not as fun as us. >> I was going to mention that that uh >> I think Laura should be definitely in there if you're able to do that because when I was doing it for the last >> at the meeting and you're actually >> Oh, you mean the interview? >> Oh, interviews. >> You're trying to shift her to planning commission. WE DON'T WANT to >> and and theoretically we had city manager and me and >> it's kind of a lot. So what's asked of staff is for the interviews is the chair or vice chair whoever can make it. Yep. >> Uh the council liaison um staff liaison city manager and potentially >> Oh times have changed. I don't think anyone even talked to me. No, >> Terry was like, "You want to join?" I'm like, "Okay." >> Exactly. Same. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You wonderful humans, we're gonna move this meeting forward. Okay. So, we're going to go uh reports from commissioners and park leaison. Lloyd, are you ready to go? >> I'm good. >> You have nothing to report? >> We're good. I'm happy. >> Okay. Sarah, I have nothing to report. I did want to see if there was any followup on like wood chips at um the urban ecology center or like what that could be. >> Yes. Um the last I had talked to Ron which in in all fairness was a couple of weeks ago he was going to speak with the um wershed there because it's not all ours. Um so it is an discussion and he very aware that that needs something needs to happen. So >> awesome. >> Yes. >> Great. That's all I got. >> Ingred, >> I have nothing. Do you want to mention anything about the bike path? >> Um, I just uh have not had any time to really explore it, but I do know that the next steps on that are >> are to go before council and kind of bring it to the attention of council. I think >> okay >> um it is listed here. uh that speaking in front of city council is probably the next step and I haven't had a moment to think about it. But um but yeah, >> but it is still a a concern. I'm not sure what the mowing situation is right now um over there because I know that my friend who drives it all the time was worried about the grass getting higher again and takes a while to ask them to mow so or to get it taken care of but um No, so I'll just um try to make it a priority. >> That's not >> so December >> December 10th is not >> Yeah, that was not happening. Okay. Okay, December 10th is not happening. I do not have any other reports other than uh thank you all for having that conversation in the way that we just did. I think that was really important. Um if there isn't any other additions, I will take a motion to adjourn. >> So move >> the meeting. >> Second. >> Uh discussion. All those in favor? >> All those opposed? >> Meeting adjourned. Didn't even use your camera.